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#rockbox log for 2002-07-22

00:01:33 Quit NiarkY (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:49:06***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:41:36 Join WetFlax [0] (
01:43:37 Join elinenbe [0] (
02:13:51 Join wodokm [0] (
02:14:50wodokmhi anyone there, i'd need the MSVCR70.DLL for the simulator to run, anyone has it for me, would be glad...
02:16:14wodokmsomeone there?
02:18:28 Part wodokm
02:21:30 Quit WetFlax ("I like core dumps")
02:31:17 Join g003y [0] (
02:31:43g003yhas anyone used that playlist reset patch that Lee Marlow sent around?
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07:45:00 Join adiamas [0] (
07:45:16USAG33kwhy, hello, is anyone around?
07:45:20 Nick adiamas is now known as adi|home (
07:58:38 Join NiarkY [0] (~NiarkY@
08:04:37 Quit aakil (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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10:22:09PsycoXulhmmm.. i have 3 directories with similar names, and the first 2 show the contents of the 2nd one, while the 3rd shows its proper contents..
10:23:32PsycoXulthere's 'Vespertine', 'Vespertine (bad rip)', and 'Vespertine [ogg2mp3]'
10:49:24***No seen item changed, no save performed.
10:54:04 Join Linus [0] (~linus@
11:02:15Hadakabjork rokk
11:02:32PsycoXulhmmm.. i have 3 directories with similar names, and the first 2 show the contents of the 2nd one, while the 3rd shows its proper contents..
11:02:35PsycoXulthere's 'Vespertine', 'Vespertine (bad rip)', and 'Vespertine [ogg2mp3]'
11:04:32Linusare the contents of the 2 first dirs very different in reality?
11:05:27PsycoXulwell they have noticably different sound quality, a different order, and different bonus tracks at the end
11:06:10Linusok, is this consistent?
11:06:19Linusi mean does it happen every time?
11:06:28PsycoXulas far as i can tell
11:06:43PsycoXuli tried it once and then i rebooted it and tried it again and it was the same
11:08:30Linusdoes the problem go away if you rename one of then, like appending a character to the second dir name?
11:08:47Linusand does it return if you change it back?
11:09:33PsycoXulum i dunno heh
11:10:15HesI have loudness & bass boost working on my recorder now...
11:10:23Hesgoing to mail the patch to the list in a few minutes.
11:20:28HesBtw, is the list very large, it seems a little slow?
11:20:56HesPlease try the patch out and consider including it in the main code
11:23:34Linuslarge list? slow?
11:23:53HesThe mailing list... takes a while for messages to get through.
11:24:37 Join yro [0] (
11:25:06LinusHes: not for me
11:26:14HesFor some reason I suspect you're within the first subscribers 8-)
11:26:44Hesso you're likely to get it first unless the mail transport software used there sorts messages in the queue somehow
11:26:44Linushehe. yeah. Probably number 2.
11:27:05HesI'm probably very near the end of the list.
11:27:58HesTakes around half an hour for me to get my own messages back.
11:28:20HesIt's not that bad, just made me wonder how many subscribers there are 8-)
11:29:04Linusi think it's about 150, but i'm not sure
11:30:50LinusHes: you should be aware of that we don´t have floating point support
11:31:19Linusat least we don´t want to
11:32:40Linusdo you want to change it, or should i do it?
11:32:52HesThat will probably have an effect on my changes in mpeg.c
11:33:25HesHm, if you happen to know what to change and how? I don't have a good idea straight out.
11:34:09Linusfor example 1.5 * tmp would be rewritten as (3 * tmp) / 2
11:34:44Linusi can do that
11:34:59Hesah, i see.
11:35:47Linusbut beware of overflowas
11:39:29HesIs the patch otherwise ok?
11:40:20Hes+static void bass_boost(void)
11:40:20Hes+ set_sound("Bass boost", &global_settings.bass_boost, SOUND_SUPERBASS);
11:40:33HesThat could read "Bass Boost" like the menu item
11:40:38Hesfor consistency
11:44:09Linusi like the patch
11:44:32Linusalthough i would prefer it to be two separate patches
11:44:43Linusone for case sensitive sorting
11:44:46HesYes, I expected someone to mention that 8-)
11:44:51Linusand one for mas fixes
11:44:57HesI posted the case sensitive sorting patch earlier
11:45:31Hesnow merged my changes against the current CVS and didn't bother to edit the diff to two parts, which of course would have been the correct thing to do.
11:47:31Linusi am a little unsure about the case sensitivity option
11:47:38HesLunch time. Some jerk is eating pizza with loads of garlic in the office.
11:48:23Linusi was under the impression that most people want case insensitive sorting...
11:48:48HesYes, that's probably what _most_ people want. 8-)
11:49:21Linusjust curious
11:49:39HesIt defaults to case insensitive sorting (although the bit will be 1 in the RTC config block by default, if it has been used with older versions of rockbox with the RTC config saving)
11:50:05HesUm, no, it will be 0 in any case.
11:50:49HesNice to see the A/D converter quasi-peak detector readouts jumping in the codec registers, 0x0c and 0x0d
11:50:55Linusjust curious again, why do you want case sensitive sorting?
11:51:47HesIt allows me to do primitive and easy configuration to get some directories/files first or last in the list just by changing the case of the first directory
11:52:42HesI have a bunch of "more important" directories (ie. Soul-Funk, Rock, Jazz, and so on) and then "less important" (ie "misc, crap")
11:53:01Heswhich are shown after the more important ones even though they are after the important ones alphabetically.
11:53:22HesWhich I find very comfortable with the small display & buttons
11:54:23HesI have used this in the mp3 hierarchy i have on my unix systems
11:54:41Hesit's nice to just rsync it to the player and have the same sorting order.
11:54:58HesNow, the lunch. Back in a moment.
12:06:47 Nick Linus is now known as Linus|lunch (~linus@
12:30:29 Join lithermon [0] (
12:31:28lithermonhello is there someone here who can answer me a question ?
12:35:49lithermonwell anyway i got a jb recorder 20 firmware 1.28 and when i put ajbrec.ajz on it it ignores the new file and loads its own firmware up
12:39:48matp|work|awayyou have to boot up with the power supply NOT connected
12:40:38lithermonyes i did
12:40:46lithermonbooted with nothing connected
12:49:28***No seen item changed, no save performed.
12:50:01 Quit lithermon ()
12:52:17 Join wodokm [0] (wodokm@
12:52:34wodokmhi there, can someone send me the msvcr70.dll ?
13:17:16wodokmsomeone there? ;-)
13:17:31 Nick Linus|lunch is now known as Linus (~linus@
13:17:55Linusi'm afraid that i don't have msvcr70.dll
13:18:17Linusbut some people have managed to rename an older dll and had it to work
13:18:43Linusi think...
13:18:56wodokmi got it now from some BootXP program, thanks anyway...
13:19:27wodokmbut let me tell you one thing: YOU GUYS RUUULE! thank you very much for doing a new firmware
13:19:46Linusyou're welcome
13:20:24Linusthere are still a few features missing...
13:20:37Linuslike recording, for instance
13:20:38wodokmfor me the 2 worst things were: 1000 songs/playlist and the playlist loading time... and the random that also always started with the first song in the playlist, so i had to do an empty mp3 first ;)
13:20:59wodokmwell, i only have the Player Studio, so...
13:21:24Linusthe player rockbox needs a better UI
13:21:28wodokmone question: why is the display only 2 lines?
13:21:38Linusask Archos
13:22:03Linusthe LCD has only two lines
13:22:23wodokmhmmm thought there were more lines with the archos.mod .. hmmm the rest is fixed LCD-stuff?
13:22:30Linusif you mean why the icons are unused, i am working on a patch that uses them
13:22:46Linusthe battery meter and the volume level
13:22:54Linusand also the Play/Pause icons
13:23:35wodokmyeah right, that were hardware icons, i thought that were just charsets, so ofcourse you can't use them...
13:23:40Linusunfortunately, most of the core developers have Recorders
13:24:26wodokmdamn, i'd like to help, but i'm away in my vacation the next month and then i'll have to learn for my end-tests of my CS-diploma...
13:24:38Linuswe would really like your opinions on the UI, though
13:24:48wodokmand the recorder does have that big display (as seen on the example-screenshots (of the simulator))?
13:25:09Linusit's a graphical 112x64 display
13:25:46Linuswith no icons
13:26:20wodokmwell, it just looked strange as the icons were not used, but hardware-limits aer hardware-limits, and when the icons are used, it looks better... hmm well, i was getting used to the archos UI, so.. but that doesn't mean that that's better...
13:27:25Linusthe Player/Studio versions are a bit limited, partly because of the LCD, but also because it has so few keys
13:28:08wodokmwhat keys do the recorders have more?
13:28:08Linusfor example, we vould like to use the "up" and "down" buttons for up and down in the directory browser
13:28:22Linusbut they are marked "Play" and "Stop"
13:28:34Linusso we must use them for that
13:28:51Linusand the Stop key also turns the unit off, so we can't use key repeat on it
13:29:06Linusthe recorder has four more keys
13:29:27Linusthree general function keys and a dedicated play/pause button
13:30:02wodokmyeah, that was kinds stupid by them not to use the up/down buttons for up/down.. damn, those guys are stupid anyway, no real support, no REAL improvements in the firmware (like 10.000 songs and load time etc.) and as we see it IS posisble...
13:30:30Linusthey probably have a budget, something we don't
13:30:44HesThey're not completely stupid, the device _is_ cool and a nice piece of hardware after all.
13:30:53wodokmaah, i see.. so the at least improved the display.. wooow ;-))
13:31:36LinusHes: yes, the hardware is neat. but it has many flaws.
13:32:05wodokmyes of course, but it seems to me they throw it out, and then don't really care about it, it's enough to SAY that there's a possibility of formware updates so ppl buy it and then they dont really care about... well, so it's great you guys do !
13:32:16HesYes. It's hard to get it completely right the first time (or the second or third, anyway)
13:32:33LinusHes: the flaws are intentionel
13:32:58HesHmm, like?
13:33:21wodokmi also guess rockbox does NOT hang randomly!! and when the battery is low, archos doesn't save the "random" value, so if you load the same playlist after turning off and on, you'l lget the same order of songs you've just heard...
13:33:33Linusthey have thought too much about production costs and too little about performance and ease of programming
13:34:01HesI guess they do have a reason for thinking about production costs 8-)
13:34:23wodokmwell, get an iPod, it's eally nice to use, but expensive.. well it's such a thing, yes...
13:34:35LinusHes: example: they have saved a few pence on not putting an inverted DEMAND pin interface to the CPU from the MAS
13:34:42Linusforcing us to poll it every 2ms
13:35:10wodokmwell, but if you want a good reputation (so ppl also buiy your next products etc.), you'll also have to think about support and quality!
13:35:18Linuswodokm: actually, rockbox _has_ problems with random crashes... :-)
13:35:33HesMine crashed this morning after playing the last song in a directory...
13:35:41Hescouldn't reproduce though.
13:35:54LinusHes: they have changed the ATA address decoder three times, back and forth
13:36:25LinusHes: yeah, the crashed are mysterious
13:36:35wodokmLinus: my plalist is 1700 songs, no problem when it crashes at the end ;)
13:36:53Linusthay have also lowered the CPU frequency for the recorder, for no apparent reason
13:37:07wodokmsaving battery?
13:37:11Linusi doubt it
13:37:24Linusit takes longer to read from the hard drive
13:37:29wodokmwhat's the cpu frequency anyway?
13:37:47Linus12MHz on the Player. 11.0562 on the recorder
13:37:48wodokmhumm seems stupid, right...
13:37:54HesWhat else than saving battery, they should have a reason to do that?
13:38:02Linusi have a nasty theory...
13:38:12HesBut that's not a very drastic change...
13:38:20HesCheaper chrystal? 8-)
13:38:36Linushehe, that would be the archos way
13:38:54Linusno, i discovered something when i fiddles woth the serial port the other day
13:39:03wodokmbut when it takes more time to read from the hdd, it takes more battery, doesn't it?
13:39:47HesI remember a certain frequency chrystal being used for just about everything in hobby projects, since it was available for really cheap since it was used in televisions
13:40:17LinusHes: yes, that frequency is used to clock the MP3 codec
13:40:50Linusbut there is a separate crystal for the CPU
13:40:55wodokmis there anything besides coding i could help?
13:41:22Linuswodokm: testing, of course
13:41:31Linuspats on the back
13:42:01wodokmpats on the back? (what's that?)
13:42:46wodokmah i checked the dict. ;-))
13:43:01wodokmi'm german so...
13:43:10HesWhat did you find with the serial port?
13:43:12Linusah, so
13:43:44Linusi found that the baud rate calculations give 0% deviation up to 230400bps
13:44:19Linusmy guess is that they wanted to be able to use high serial speeds
13:44:32Linusmaybe for debugging
13:44:42Linusa wild guess, i know
13:46:05wodokmjust for interest, someone of you guys been in the (Amiga) Demo scene maybe? =)
13:46:14HesBtw... where did you get the schematics? 8-)
13:47:33HesBack to business... do you think the sorting order patch will go in?
13:47:44Linuswodokm: yes, breafly. We are most famous on the C64 scene though
13:48:07HesAssembly '02 is approaching.
13:48:22LinusHes: the schematics are made from scratch, by using a multimeter and a lot of patience
13:49:11LinusHes: i guess Björn has to decide about the sorting patch. i don't have a problem with it myself...
13:49:17HesI am deeply impressed.
13:49:41Linusyeah, a guy names Andrew Jamiesson wanted to try out his new multimeter...
13:49:59wodokmyeah, c64 rocks (more than amiga of course)...
13:50:09wodokmbeen at ASM'94 and ASM'95
13:50:10Linusit contains quite a few errors, but i am redrawing them
13:50:14 Nick wodokm is now known as DexterAYS (wodokm@
13:50:27 Nick Linus is now known as BoogalooHZ (~linus@
13:50:46DexterAYSand The Party 94 upto 98
13:50:55 Nick Hes is now known as HesNetCrew (
13:50:58DexterAYSHorizon i guess?
13:50:59BoogalooHZi was at the Party 94
13:51:10BoogalooHZwioth my first and only Amiga demo
13:51:14DexterAYSdamn i didn't meet you ;-)
13:51:20BoogalooHZHorizon, yes
13:51:22DexterAYSdid you compete?
13:51:27HesNetCrewBeen doing the network uplink for the last couple years.
13:51:36BoogalooHZ4th place in the compo
13:51:50BoogalooHZVirtual Intelligence
13:52:21BoogalooHZa very cool way of putting bitmaps on 3D vector objects
13:52:32DexterAYSwell, better than our "Dove" (with the beverly hills90210 endpart.....)
13:52:40DexterAYSgotta take a look at that demo ;-)
13:53:02BoogalooHZwe did a VERY cool vector demo for the C64 after that
13:53:06BoogalooHZThe Last Traktor III
13:53:34BoogalooHZand won another compo with it
13:53:43BoogalooHZactually, the last demo we ever made
13:55:05DexterAYSyeah, we guys from abyss are now developing GBA games... go and get Maya The Bee - The Big Adventure, ingame coding: Dexter (me ;-), all other stuff: Bartman, Musics: Pink, GFX: Judas/Endzeit, Levels: Wintermute ;-) check out and..
13:55:15DexterAYS,,go buy it... (or if you want leech it heheheh)
13:55:59BoogalooHZcool. we never made any games
13:56:03 Nick HesNetCrew is now known as Hes (
13:56:09 Nick BoogalooHZ is now known as Linus (~linus@
13:57:12DexterAYSwell, gameboy coding is quite cool, you can to some hardware stuff etc. that's what we all liked on a500/c64 yeeeah, not pc directx games ;(
13:57:50Linusthat's also why i like rockbox
13:58:44DexterAYSyeah me too, i like hardware projects, i'm just not very good at electronics (though i'Dm very interesed), but never learned all that stuff...
13:59:02Linusme neither
14:00:00DexterAYSwhat i like to do is to build my own Pinball, i got a used one that doesn't work, build my own playfield, do my very own processor board, code the complete game with all the flippers etc. connected via relais, AND: for sound i wanna connect a SID
14:00:55DexterAYSjust don't know what kinda display to use, and how to connect.. it's gotta be a big one of course, not an 20x4 display...
14:00:57LinusDexterAYS: my and Exilons last project was to do Pinball Fantasies for the C64
14:01:16Linusbut we never finished it
14:01:22DexterAYScool!! .. did you start?
14:01:23Linusiwould have ROCKED, though
14:01:51DexterAYSi really liked the pinball series, i BOUGHT Pinball Illusions then for amiga, cause they really deserved it!
14:01:57Linuswe had the ball bouncing, the board scrolling (bitmap scroll of course)
14:02:22Linusthe flipper collision detection was hard
14:02:46Linusand the bouncing calculations were VERY time consuming
14:03:05DexterAYSand that on an c64 - you c64 coders just rock ;-) i did a rot/zoomer once, but it was not vey fast hahaha...
14:03:11Linusthe original used 64 sample points around the ball and 32-bit arithmetics
14:03:11DexterAYSsure, on 1MHz ;(
14:04:02DexterAYSyeah i thout that with the sample points, and every sample point collided gave an impulse in the exact otherwise direction, right? and then all impulses from the 64points werde vector added, kinda?
14:04:20Linusnot really
14:04:33DexterAYSdo you have something you can show me form that pinball ?
14:04:49Linuswe calculate an average angle from the points
14:04:52DexterAYS;( bad guess form me
14:05:23Linusthe problem is that we have to do the calculations very often
14:05:32Linusbecause of the ball speed
14:06:08Linusotherwise the ball would appear to have passed into the border
14:06:13DexterAYSso you don't move the ball the lets say 3 pix at once, but call the routine for one pixel 3 times... that kinda stuff?
14:06:24Linussort of
14:06:38Linuswell not sort of, exactly like that
14:06:52DexterAYSyeah, the same thing as i used in Maya The Bee (jump'n'run), did it the same way...
14:06:55Linusand no, i don't have anything to show you
14:07:06Linusthat was 8 years ago
14:07:26DexterAYStake a look if you want:
14:08:15Linuslooks great!
14:08:21Linusi love 2D platform games
14:08:25Linusand i hate 3d
14:08:39DexterAYSwow - i'm impressed... really! i just like c64... hmmm. connecting an SID to some processor via memory mapping isn't that hard to layout?
14:09:13Linuspretty simple
14:09:20Linusdepending on the CPu of course
14:09:25DexterAYSyeah me too, maya makes real fun, not only for 10year old fun to me than 3d games, i don't wanna code 3d games also, so gba is quite cool...
14:10:03DexterAYSi do have to check the frequency, that's probably the main problem?
14:10:21DexterAYS(sorry my R doesn't work always...)
14:11:22Linusfrequency is one problem
14:11:28Linusthe bus interface is another
14:11:29DexterAYSthe problem is the cpu haveinmg 8 MHz and the SID needs 1Mhz ?
14:11:34DexterAYSah okay...
14:11:46Linusbut i guess the SID isn't that strange
14:12:03DexterAYSthat would be too cool, a real pinball with sid sound ;-))
14:12:10Linusi think you can connect it to just about any CPU
14:12:12DexterAYSwhat country are you from?
14:12:18Linusthat accepts 5V I/O
14:14:42DexterAYScan you giveme your email-addy, so i can tell you ideas about the UI and what else i found out when testing the rockbox...
14:15:53DexterAYSand what you REALL could implement, no joke: SID-support, just thought about it... or do all data have to go through the MAS?.. that would be toooo cool... so i have to MP3 them, but that's also okay...
14:19:00LinusDexterAYS: all data has to go through the MAS
14:19:29Linusit is possible to reprogram the MAS (it is a DSP) but we have no documentation
14:19:57Linusthe CPU is very slow, so the SID emulation will probably suck
14:20:13LinusDexterAYS: you should join the mailing list
14:20:42Linusi am swedish, by the way
14:20:45 Join liam_ [0] (
14:20:59Linushi liam_!
14:21:03 Nick liam_ is now known as jedix` (
14:21:12jedix`whats up?
14:21:19jedix`how the project going?
14:21:31Linusforward, i hope :-)
14:22:11Linusi have been working on the MP3 loading for a week now
14:22:47Linusmy MP3 loading fixes combined with Björns ATA deep sleep is a pain
14:23:22Linuswe had to raise the low water mark considerably
14:23:42Linusbit i believe that it works quite Ok now
14:24:47DexterAYSlinus: okay, i'll do. but SID emulation worked on 7 MHz a500.. hmm okay, you'd have to mix the channel, a500 didn't have to.. but wouldn't work anyway as you had to go through the mas... ;(
14:25:34Linusyeah, going through the MAS has some drawbacks
14:25:57DexterAYSdamn, 2002 and the thing can't play SIDs ;-)))))
14:26:01Linuslow sampling frequency
14:26:26HesWhoa, my recorder 20 just started acting up
14:26:37Hesit's running out of battery (looking at the indicator in the bottom)
14:26:42Hesi told it to play a directory
14:26:54Linusand the file names just flicker by...?
14:26:59Hesit tried to play all songs one by one, but didn't play any (probably couldn't spin up the disk)
14:27:11Linusand tried the next one...and the next...
14:27:18HesMaybe a warning about dead battery & shutdown might be in order
14:27:22HesYes, that's right.
14:27:39LinusHes: yes, a shutdown would be good in that case
14:28:04Linusbut the units behave differently in low battery situations
14:28:14Linusand you do want to play until the bitter end
14:28:23DexterAYSwell, archos doesn't a too good low-battery-auto shutdown, too... so well, ppl are used to recognize when the batt seems to be low ;-)
14:28:46Linusi don't want a low-battery-shutdown
14:29:17Linusthe unit shuts off when the level goes below ~4.5V
14:29:56Linusbut the hard drives require 4.75 according to the specs
14:30:38DexterAYSi think it's okay with no autoshut off... how does archos get the value for the battery display? that never ight when just tuned on...
14:31:21Linusi guess they calculate an average over time
14:32:05DexterAYSthey have an input A->D converter from the battery somehow!?
14:32:09Linuswhen we implement file system writes, we will write-protect the drive if the voltage goes below 4.75V
14:32:36LinusDexterAYS: yes, the CPU has 8 A/D inputs
14:33:45Linusthey are used for different things, like battery meter, USB detection and the reading of the keys
14:34:04DexterAYSwhere does archos save the values like random seed etc. ? if the batt is low, the seed wonD't saved anymore, so the same order comes when playing the same playlist after power off and on...
14:36:26Linusthe playes saves its settings in sector 62 on the hard drive
14:36:29DexterAYSmy mp3-files are named like [artist]-songname.mp3 . displaying artist in the first line and songname in the second line, or alternating artist/songname on the one single line.. that would be cool ;-) (for me, maybe some of those formats can be...
14:36:54DexterAYS...implemented and selected via menu? (or things lie " - " or what ppl use...)
14:37:10Linuswe have thought of that
14:37:48Linusbut every discussion ends when we discover how many ways the file naming can be done
14:38:03 Join ripnetuk [0] (
14:38:12 Quit ripnetuk (Client Quit)
14:38:26Linussome people use a directory hierarchy instead
14:38:29DexterAYSyou guys are cool (do i repeat myself? ;-) ... yes, sure. but some presets would be cool?
14:38:46Linusindeed. care to do it?
14:40:13DexterAYShmm sure i can... it's a part that can be developed quite individually... so, i get the filename and return something.. and well, i get probably a setting from the settings menu (Auto, "[]-", " - ", etc.)
14:40:15Hadakapuh, ETOOMANYPROJECTS, it would be so nice to invest time in rockbox
14:40:37LinusHadaka: i know the feeling
14:41:00LinusDexterAYS: something like that
14:41:57DexterAYSthat'd be very cool, if someone doesnt' want to use it, it can be switched off, and if some one has such a naming, he can use it, why not....
14:43:14Linusyeah, as long as it isn't polluting the code...
14:43:44DexterAYSand we can the user select if he wants 2 lines for artist/songname, or if he wants 1 line alternating with time display, or 1 line scrolling with time display... ?
14:44:00Linussort of
14:44:14DexterAYSshould be possibly to code so it isn't polluting the code, hopefully...
14:44:18Linusand we could extend it to the dir browser as well
14:44:48Linusso that it can list the song name before the artist, so you don't have to wait for the scroll to start
14:45:30DexterAYSor in 2 lines!? so there's just no place for file 5 of 10 andsoone...
14:46:37DexterAYSi'll go think about all that stuff, now i can really fix what bugged me (besides the stuff you guys fixed already... i'm so happy bout that m3u loading...)
14:47:01 Join lohap [0] (
14:47:06Linusdo you have a cross development environment up?
14:47:20Linusso you can build the rockbox
14:47:26Linushi lohap!
14:47:40DexterAYSso you know why archos loaded the playlists that way? they seem to have seeked to every mp3, the farer away from the playlist-file on the hdd, the more seeking was needed... loading got slower and slower the more files it read.
14:47:56DexterAYSno (not yet).
14:48:12Linusi have no idea what they are doing. i guess they try to verify the existence of them all
14:48:16DexterAYS"do" not "so"
14:48:35DexterAYSstupid, at the cost of loading time..arrrrgg
14:48:53lohapi just instqalled rockbox on my recorder 20 and i must amit i am impressed
14:49:01Linuslohap: thanks
14:49:32***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
14:49:35lohapwell done to say that unlike argos u are developing it on no budget
14:50:11Linuslohap: i think our lack of budget is one of the reasons we have gone this far
14:50:28DexterAYSlohap, yeah one could think it was the other way ;)
14:50:55Linuswe don't do thinks half-hearted just because we have a deadline
14:51:07Linuswe want to do it right
14:51:22DexterAYSwell, they had the deadline: the first release, but HEY: that's some years behind!!!
14:51:35lohapyea i must admit the interface aint as pritty as argos but the features are alot better
14:52:00Linusthey are a small company, and they have several products to support/develop
14:52:00lohapand it runs alot quicker so itll do me
14:52:12DexterAYSlohap: it aint's finshed yet...
14:52:20Linuslohap: yeah, then interface needs brudhing up
14:52:28lohapyea i know its just in beta
14:52:37Linusit will be in beta forever
14:52:40DexterAYSlinus: yes, but that's no excuse!?
14:53:17lohaphehe this is a crazy idea plus im a newbie so it may not be possible but why not go for a icon driven interface
14:53:30DexterAYSbut don't forget: archos is alpha in my opinion =)
14:53:37lohapheheh lol
14:54:12Linuslohap: is would be possible for the recorder, but not the Player...
14:54:31lohapyea the recorder has a larger lcd
14:54:39DexterAYSi want an WinXP GUI........ hell NOOOOO! ;-)
14:54:44Linusyou can connect a keyboard or a mouse instead of the remote control
14:55:17Linuswebmind is alive!
14:55:25lohaplol ircing through my jukebox lol
14:55:25webmindam now
14:55:30webmindlohap, ???
14:56:04lohapjoke lol i must admint i typed it abit late
14:57:13DexterAYSlinus: can i develop on win2000 or should i install linux for all the cvs stuff and gnu compiler...?
14:57:24LinusDexterAYS: you can use win2k
14:57:32Linusbut linux is to prefer
14:57:53Linususe cygwin on win2k
14:57:58DexterAYScool ;-).. hmm can the display be driven pixel by pixel? (so we could do a SNAKE like nokia heheheheh)
14:58:11DexterAYSbut first i'll do the names stuff...
14:58:27LinusDexterAYS: the Playes is character only, the recorder is pixel based
14:58:38Linuswe have Tetris and Sokoban for the recorder
14:58:52Linusstill waiting for someone to do the Snake
14:59:25DexterAYSokay, no snake, but that doesn't really MATTER... okay, i'll try to set up the stuff so i can compile and use cvs functions...
14:59:37lohapwhat language does the recorder run on
14:59:51DexterAYShey i did an "snake" on amiga, was my first "game", i put it as secret part in one of our music-disks ;-)
15:00:23DexterAYSlinus: do you guys plan to do multilanguage? (i don't think someone needs that..)
15:00:53DexterAYSlinus: how does the base/treble work? is it done by the MAS?
15:01:37elinenbemoring all
15:01:54LinusDexterAYS: multilanguage will be supported
15:01:56Linussome day
15:02:08elinenbean icon driven interface would be great. I keep thinking Nokia phone here (or iriver mp3CD players)
15:02:09Linusbass/treble is done by the MAS
15:02:31Linuspersonally i don't like icon driven interfaces
15:02:32elinenbethat would take up a bit of room, but it would kick some major ass.
15:02:35lohapyea sort of a nokia interface would be great
15:02:52elinenbeLinus: you still use lynx to browes the web though :)
15:02:59Linusbecause it is so hard to draw icons that everyone understands
15:03:36lohapwell by trade im a graphics designer for websites so i could help with that
15:04:16Linusand what icons would we need? The major part of the interface is based on file names anyway
15:04:22DexterAYSwe also got pixel artists of course.. well, small icons like that on player: playlsit, song, etc. are okay, but not too much iconing...
15:04:45DexterAYSi want a movie to be played in the background.. er.. no.
15:04:54lohapwell the f1 could open up a icon driven menu
15:04:56Linuslohap: the rockbox project is 99% C and 1% assembly
15:05:23Linusicons representing what?
15:05:40DexterAYSlohap: i don't have f1 *sniff* on my player ;)
15:06:10lohapwell playlist editor, games, sound, things like that more to make it pritty and vv userfriendly
15:06:22elinenbesound settings/games/clock/play mode/etc.
15:06:36DexterAYSlinus: got some screenshot of what fix-icons on the player are in the lcd? (fo me designing the selector, song.display, etc.) ?
15:07:28lohapwhy not wack a vote on the page so that the people who use the program can shape the way its going
15:08:26DexterAYSwell, better invest the work on the code? and let some designated ppl care about that?
15:08:57lohapyea i suppose solid code now pritty pictures next
15:10:03DexterAYSyes, and i'll try to care about the filename splitting/display, that's something that i missed on archos, haveing lots a files name [Huey Lewis and the News]-blabla, waiting on each title to scroll to the songname took too much time...
15:10:23 Join PiotR [0] (
15:10:26DexterAYStoo bad i'm on my vacation from 2nd august..
15:11:07DexterAYSi'll try to think over it anyway and let you guys know...
15:11:56Linushi PiotR!
15:12:35lohapo btw how come rockbox dosnt support shuffle in playlists
15:12:46DexterAYSit does!
15:13:05DexterAYSselect in the menu worked fine for me...
15:13:24lohapshuffle is set to yes
15:13:30lohapand when i press
15:13:38DexterAYSstrange... lemme check
15:14:04lohap6 its goes in order
15:14:31DexterAYSlinus: can the power-on sequence be changed? i guess no, it's in the ROM-firmware?!
15:14:45LinusDexterAYS: what do you mean
15:15:06lohapbtw im using archos20020722.ajz
15:15:29DexterAYSyou gotta press for 2 seconds...
15:15:59Linusthat is hardware controlled
15:16:03lohapare that fixed it
15:16:04DexterAYSdamn ;)
15:16:31DexterAYSnow it doesn't play anything when loaded the playlist... what happened now?
15:16:52LinusDexterAYS: battery status?
15:17:23lohapbtw there is a bug if u hold 6 down for 2 second and do it again before the song has loaded it gets stuck in a load
15:17:25DexterAYSlinus: i can load single mp3s, they play..
15:18:04Linuslohap: on the recorder?
15:18:08lohapand now its started playing again lol u got to love beta's lol
15:19:04Linuslohap: you hold the DOWN key ?
15:19:38lohapi held it down for 2 second and then press it again it went around ten track then started to play then went round about another ten tracks
15:19:50lohapnow its playing again
15:20:07Linuslohap: you must mean the RIGHT key
15:20:44lohapyea 6the right one
15:21:29Linusthat is because the key repeats, but the Ui thread dosn't get the messages from the key interrupt
15:21:44Linusbecause the disk loading takes all CPU time
15:22:10Linuswhen the disk loading is done, it serves all pending key events
15:22:39lohapwith my limit knowledge i understand
15:22:41Linusthe disk loading is a pain in the %&¤!
15:23:07Linusanother example of lousy hardware design
15:23:50Linusor rather, the interface between the CPU and the MAS leaves room for enhancement...
15:25:23DexterAYSdoes your playlist loader ignore the "#..." entries in WinAMP playlists?
15:27:00DexterAYSlinus: how can i skip to the next mp3 when in playlist play mode??
15:27:42DexterAYSlinus: and do you plan the volume setting like archos? ON and +/- ?
15:27:44 Nick dwihno|gone0r is now known as dwihno (dwihno@
15:29:48dwihnoHello hello! :-)
15:32:14DexterAYSlinus: how do you get random seeds if you don't save something to disk?
15:33:40Hadakadisk loading takes all CPU time? was this about archos or rockbox?
15:34:44LinusHadaka: archos and rockbox
15:34:52Linushi dwihno
15:35:28LinusDexterAYS: no, we don't ignore # what i can see
15:35:41Hadakaso - is there any way to make the interface responsive during disk loadings?
15:35:46LinusHadaka: we do yield() once in a while
15:36:14Hadakaok so there's no hardware problem with it, only software?
15:36:15Linusyes, we can make the interface responsive, at the cost of slower load
15:36:49Linusand we have gone through fire and water to reduce the load times
15:37:31Hadakayeah so I've gathered - which is a good thing
15:37:40LinusDexterAYS: whay would we have to save to disk to get a random seed?
15:38:08LinusDexterAYS: just press LEFt and RIGHT to go back/forward in the play list while playing
15:38:22DexterAYSlinus: hmm well, the current random seed.... hmm how do you get the random values then?
15:38:44elinenbethere is a bug in the current CVS: when I scroll down a few screen lenghts of folders, and then I press right to enter a folder, a new cursor appears on the top line, and then nothing happens (it is hard to reproduce though)
15:38:46Linuscurrently, we reseed every time you start the playlist
15:38:47Heslinus: I almost implemented the AVC this morning
15:38:55elinenbethis is on AJBR6
15:39:00LinusHes: COOL!
15:39:02Heswhile i was doing the loudness
15:39:13HesBut didn't after all. Seems very straightforward to do though.
15:40:25LinusDexterAYS: the plan is to save the seed and the playlist position
15:40:26DexterAYSlinus: when i load the playlist several times, there's only 2 songs he selects to start from...
15:40:54Linusthat's bad
15:41:07Linushow long is the list
15:41:08DexterAYSkinda ;-)
15:41:24DexterAYS1638 files.. but there's some # lines from winamp in it, should i try without?
15:43:01DexterAYSit's always the first or the second song!
15:43:24DexterAYSthose lines from winamp are:
15:43:25DexterAYS#EXTINF:67,01 [Van Halen]-1984
15:43:25dwihnogood random code ;-)
15:43:38DexterAYSmaybe he gets confused...
15:43:42dwihnoDidn't someone add # comment style preventing code earlier?
15:44:00Linusit sure isn't handled in the playlist code
15:44:32Linusoh, it is. i see it now
15:45:12DexterAYSanyway i'll test without... one mom
15:46:13elinenbehow long has volume been implemented on the WPS screen?
15:47:16DexterAYSnow again it doesnt play anything at all... sory moment...
15:47:26DexterAYSdidnt change to archos input in my amp. ;(
15:47:40Linuselinenbe: for ages
15:49:10DexterAYSlinus: alsways the 1st or 2nd song ;(
15:49:17Hes"ages" being very relative 8-)
15:49:29 Quit lohap ()
15:49:35DexterAYSdon't tell me i have to use the archos firm again ;(
15:49:58LinusDexterAYS: but the rest of the list plays ok, right?
15:51:48DexterAYSlinus: what u mean? i can't skip songs, after the playlist is loaded it gets back to the fileselector menu
15:52:12LinusDexterAYS: what?
15:52:28Linuswhat firmware are you using?
15:53:10matp|work|awayquick question to anyone. i may have asked this before. does the archos recharge the batteries in usb mode?
15:53:24Linusyou should try the latest daily build instead
15:53:35DexterAYSokay, ill get it mom
15:53:56Hadakamatp|work|away: yes
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15:55:54dwihnoLinus: how is the work with the battery loading part progressing?
16:03:47DexterAYSlinus: do you have real Shuffle, or just random (shuffle would mean when playing the complete playlist once, every song plays exactly once)?
16:04:08DexterAYSall: when will options saving come?
16:04:44Hesoptions are saved on the recorder already, they will be saved on the players when disk writing is enabled
16:05:34DexterAYShey cool, last song (-) REALLY plays the last song.... fine!
16:05:54DexterAYShes: what's the difference in saving to disk on recorder/player?
16:07:08Hadakathe recorder doesn't need to save to disk
16:07:28Hadakathe recorder has a few bytes of RAM on the RTC chip that can be used for settings
16:07:35Hadakathe player has no RTC
16:08:19DexterAYSah okay, now i see.. i think we all should throw our players away and buy recorders, would mamke it much easier for you to develop rockbox ,-)
16:11:05DexterAYScan i patch my startup-options (volume, random) somewhere in the .mod file (as long as no option saving is there) ?.. o maybe i can compile a version, must try to install cygwin anyway...
16:16:05 Nick DexterAYS is now known as DexterAYSlunchin (wodokm@
16:21:16LinusDexterAYSlunchin: it is a shuffle
16:22:07Linusdwihno: the charging stuff is idle at the moment
16:22:16*Linus goes for coffee
16:28:13Linushas any of you had any pitch problems on your Player?
16:28:56DexterAYSlunchinlinus: whad you mean? playing ata to high frequency?
16:29:09HesThere, wrote the AVC code, will try it out tomorrow morning...
16:29:13DexterAYSlunchinlinus: great with the shuffle, even winamp has only random...
16:29:37Linusyeah. some people have complained about songs being played at a slightly too high pitch/frequency
16:30:11Linusshuffle is the only way to go if you want to step back in random mode
16:30:21DexterAYSlunchinlinus: how should that happen? the mas outputs at the fixed fequency... hmmmm
16:30:51DexterAYSlunchinlinus: right, or you have to remind the former songs...
16:31:10 Nick DexterAYSlunchin is now known as DexterAYSeatinIc (wodokm@
16:31:16 Nick DexterAYSeatinIc is now known as DexterEatinIce (wodokm@
16:35:16 Nick DexterEatinIce is now known as DexterAYS (wodokm@
16:49:36***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
16:51:29DexterAYShey dudes: now i installed cygwin, what's next? the cross-compilers? where do i get them fo cygwin?
16:54:17 Nick dwihno is now known as dwihno|gone (dwihno@
16:58:00 Quit elinenbe ("User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby")
16:59:08LinusDexterAYS: you build them
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17:18:32LinusDexterAYS: building the compiler?
17:38:55DexterAYSlinus: hmm... how can i build the compiler, without the compiler?
17:39:23Linusdoesn't cygwin include the compiler?
17:40:02Hadakayou need to compile gcc for sh-elf with gcc for i386
17:41:02LinusDexterAYS: cygwin whould include a native gcc compiler
17:41:20Linusyou use that one to build the cross compiler
17:57:08 Quit aakil (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
18:00:36DexterAYS$ gcc
18:00:39DexterAYSbash: gcc: command not found
18:01:09DexterAYSso no gcc included...
18:02:03Linuswierd. did you install some kind of lightweight version of vygwin?
18:03:05Linusperhaps the default installation doesn't install the compiler
18:10:30DexterAYShmm i'll check that.. but, okay, when i have the gcc, i can compile the cross-compile, and then i also need cvs, right!?!!
18:11:07Linusyes indeed. maybe there is a cygwin port of cvs?
18:11:20Linusotherwise you have to use wincvs
18:12:50LinusHes: I'm about to commit your patch
18:13:26DexterAYSokay, i'll check that out.. thx so far, i'm off!
18:13:39Linusbye DexterAYS!
18:14:42DexterAYS2.95 or 3.1 gcc version?
18:17:32DexterAYSokay bye now ;-)
18:17:33 Part DexterAYS
18:35:48 Join mecraw [0] (
18:37:11Linusyo mecraw!
18:38:00mecrawJust getting ready to move.
18:39:21mecrawAre you back from vacation now?
18:41:51mecrawI hope it was restful.
18:42:45mecrawI put the latest build on my ajbr last night, the new mpeg.c stuff seems to work on it now!
18:44:06Linusyou mean the loading problems?
18:44:48mecrawIt used to stop after 70 seconds on my ~200kbit vbr files
18:45:09mecrawbut it worked great last night for an hour straight
18:46:02 Part mecraw|moving
18:46:20Linusthat's great!
18:47:44Linushave anyone noticed any battery lifetime changes since mine and Zagors changes?
18:48:06Linus(what a silly sentence)
18:48:12mecrawmine seems to be better now, i can't quantify it though
18:48:45mecrawi should have some numbers next week after my 18 hour road trip :)
18:49:00Linusmine still gets warm when i keep it in the blue...whatsitcalled...pouch?
18:49:19dwihno|goneor bag :)
18:49:26 Nick dwihno|gone is now known as dwihno (dwihno@
18:49:39***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
19:00:41 Nick dwihno is now known as dwihno|gone (dwihno@
19:00:43Linuswell, time to go home
19:00:56Linuscu all later this evening!
19:01:35 Part Linus
19:11:57 Join lohap [0] (
19:12:18lohaphi al
19:12:45 Quit lohap (Client Quit)
19:34:36 Join ironi__ [0] (~ironi@
19:34:40ironi__hey ppl
19:35:21ironi__i forgot to bring my charger for my jb6000 on vacation, sonow i got myself a new one
19:35:33ironi__it can do 1.5-12, and ives 1 A
19:36:00ironi__i guess i need to set it to 9V but i have no clue what polarity it is supposed to have
19:36:07ironi__anyone alive to tell me?
19:36:44ironi__Hadaka: u alive?
19:37:05ironi__edx ?
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20:28:42 Join matp [0] (
20:29:06matpjust had a bad crash with rockbox
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20:41:57Rom1hello all
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20:46:16matpIO9 Cpu Addr error. I think it then rebooted. I was driving, so I couldn't write down all the info.
20:49:42***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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22:16:45*Emmett waves
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22:49:46***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:50:15geoffegHELLO SIR CAPTAIN SIR!
22:50:23 Quit jedix` ("gone home")
22:54:57USAG33kso like, yeah
22:56:02USAG33kummm, i phjear the l337ness of rockbox
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23:37:02 Join WetFlax [0] (~wettoad@
23:43:42 Join Linus [0] (~linus@
23:54:18USAG33kwerd to your respective mothers
23:56:08Linusdoes any of you still have problems with high-bitrate files?
23:57:09USAG33kat this point, i am having trouble with it recognizing my files
23:57:23USAG33klike, perhaps it's that, but it won't read out files with uppercase first letters
23:57:39USAG33ki haven't done too much research yet, working and such
23:57:46USAG33kjust noticed it yesterday with the latest build
23:58:31USAG33ki would like to become part of the project, my C skillz are lacking though
23:58:39USAG33kso for now i am just going to be listening in
23:58:53elinenbego buy the book by kerrigan and richie
23:59:20USAG33kwhat is it titled?

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