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#rockbox log for 2002-08-10

00:03:29 Nick PsycoXul_ is now known as PSycoXul (
00:41:05 Join RipnetUK [0] (
00:42:57***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:18:07 Quit RipnetUK ()
01:40:57 Quit mistaRx (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:42:59***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
03:12:01fraggletdoes rockbox support recording yet
03:12:51adi|homewe're hoping that for maybe 1.4
03:13:03adi|homeright now we dont have disk writting working yet
03:13:07fraggletoh cool
03:13:12adi|homewhen that happens.. recording shouldn't be too far behind
03:13:22fraggleti just installed rockbox on my recorder :)
03:13:30adi|homesweet :)
03:13:32fraggletits really good from what i've seen
03:13:36adi|homehow do you like it so far?
03:13:44adi|homeyou on the mailing list?
03:14:04fraggleti'm not on the list
03:14:13fraggletit seems really cool so far though
03:14:34adi|homeyou may want to join the list if you feel like helping out
03:14:50adi|homeeither that or just hang on for the line
03:15:29adi|homethe ride rather :)
03:25:05datazone-workhmm.. you guys are some sharp cookies.. i have a real bad hardware problem with my jukebox and its no longer under warrenty
03:31:01datazone-workno takers?
03:31:04datazone-workoh well
03:37:04fraggleti dont know much about the archos internals so i dont know if this would be feasible
03:37:18datazone-workno prob
03:37:29fraggletbut i saw on the site it wouldnt be possible to play oggs because you'd have to reprogram the dsp chip
03:37:41fraggletand the cpu isnt fast enough to do the decoding
03:37:50fraggletwhat about other formats
03:37:53fraggletlike shn
03:37:59fraggletwhich is lossless
03:38:02adi|homesame thing
03:38:05adi|homecheck out the FAQ
03:38:31adi|homequestion 17 to be exact
03:38:39adi|homedatazone what is the issue your having?
03:38:49fraggletdoes all output have to go through the dsp?
03:39:01adi|homeas far as i know yeah...
03:39:11fraggletjust a thought :)
03:39:28datazone-workwell, today the device just locked up and started giving hard drive errors
03:39:33fraggleti have like a ton of .shn files you see
03:39:38datazone-workso i figure, okay, run scandisk and fix it
03:40:00datazone-worktried that, then the device would no longer power up in mp3 playing mode
03:40:06adi|homewere you using Rockbox or the factory firmware?
03:40:23adi|homehmmm... are you still able to mount the device?
03:40:30adi|homeand access it
03:40:52datazone-workonly under windows 2000... undex 98 or linux it auto powers off after usb activation
03:41:15datazone-worki reformatted
03:41:39adi|homewell.. what you could try is dling the rockbox new release, loading that and see if it runs
03:41:40datazone-worki even pulled the unit apart and rebuilt the partition by directly connecting it to another computer
03:41:52adi|homeif it does, thens its not a hardware issue
03:42:47datazone-workadi|home: it doesnt even show anything on the display unless the power cable is in it, and then only the "battery charging" screen or the usb active screen
03:43:03adi|homewell you might have fully drained the batteries
03:43:12adi|homeunless you know there is a charge there...
03:43:37datazone-workthere is, i always keep the unit charged, and its always plugged in when i am not using it
03:43:50adi|homehmmm.. not sure..
03:43:54 Join jmw [0] (
03:43:59adi|homehang out here if you can...
03:44:13datazone-workonly thing i can think of is if the internal firmware is corrupted in some manner
03:44:15adi|homewhen Zagor or Bagder come in see if they know...
03:44:22datazone-workwill do
03:44:29jmwhey all, how do you get the simulator to run with a newly built firmware build
03:44:40datazone-workin the mean time i will call best buy and see when they will have the multimedia in stock
03:47:48datazone-workhow in hell is "archos" pronunced?
03:48:29datazone-worki swear to god i hate retail stores, he dont have it in stock nor knows when it will be instock
03:49:20jmwpronouncing archos.. me and my work mates say "ARR-CHOSE" but we're probably wrong
03:51:46 Nick dwihno|PARTY is now known as dwihno (dwihno@Bald067.Baldakinen.Umea.SE)
03:51:49dwihnoThe party is OVER :-)
03:52:22dwihnoAt least, for me
03:52:36dwihnoYou don't have to stop! :)
03:53:01jmwso how do you guys pronounce it
03:53:13jmwarchos that is
03:53:31PSycoXuli usualy say ar-kose
03:53:46PSycoXuli dunno
03:54:07datazone-worki say "arch-o-s"
03:54:29jmwor ar-choes
03:54:36datazone-work"arch" "o" "s"
03:55:02dwihnoarc oz (with a 's' pronounciation on the z)
03:55:30jmwo as in dog or o as in toblerone
03:55:31PSycoXulo as in holy
03:55:38PSycoXulfor mine :p
03:55:43datazone-worko as in team
03:55:45jmwwhy didnt they call it something more simple
03:55:58datazone-workits the company name
03:56:01PSycoXuljmw: why didn't who call what? :p
03:56:02dwihno"MP3 player thingy" :)
03:56:12jmwyeah that woulda done.
03:56:20PSycoXulthen it'd been the archos mp3 player thingy
03:56:41jmwcool-hardware-crap-software might have done too.
03:56:41datazone-workits name is just jukebox 6000
03:56:42PSycoXulrather than archos {jukebox,recorder,multimedia}
03:57:05jmwyeah but i have the recorder. i can't call it recorder coz ppl think i'm talking about a girl's whistle
03:57:20PSycoXulso call it an mp3 recoder
03:57:25PSycoXulor a jukebox recorder
03:57:33datazone-workoh well, i think i should go home now... i have had too bad of a day to stick around.. i wonder how worse it could get
03:57:39jmwi don't have time to say that
03:57:54dwihnodatazone-work: don't say so - it will cause the evil spirits to make the day worse! :(
03:58:03datazone-worki dare them
03:58:03dwihnoI smell like a smeetvrees!
03:58:15jmwso does anyone know how to use the simulator or am i wasting my time
03:58:28PSycoXulyou run it
03:58:33PSycoXulafter compiling it...
03:58:39dwihnoyeah, is there more to it than that?
03:58:42PSycoXulpress some keys
03:58:46PSycoXulthats about it
03:58:58jmwyeah but i wanna run a different .mod file... how.. HOW.. HOOW
03:59:03PSycoXulit doesn't run .mod files
03:59:08PSycoXulit runs code compiled into it
03:59:09jmwso what's the point man
03:59:12jmwoh i see
03:59:13 Quit datazone-work ("Client Exiting")
03:59:19jmwnow there's an idea.
03:59:36PSycoXulit'd be nice if it ran .mod files but that'd be a lot of emulation
03:59:37dwihnoyeah, why test everything in a test environment instead of trying it on the hardware :)
04:00:02jmwmy poor "jukebox recorder unit" gets hot if i leave it connected for hours at a time
04:00:03PSycoXulhmm wtf
04:00:06 Nick PSycoXul is now known as PsycoXul (
04:00:34jmwso how many ppl here are actually coders
04:00:40PsycoXulnot very many?
04:01:00jmwso what do you do if you're not a coder
04:01:14jmwan abuser huh
04:01:50PsycoXultell the people who actualy have a clue what they're doing about how they're doing it wrong... heh
04:01:55PsycoXuletc :p
04:02:25jmwnow that's a complicated sentence that i'm really too tired to comprehend
04:02:54dwihnoin short: PsycoXul is the official support guy - just /msg him with your questions :)
04:03:05PsycoXultell "the people who actualy have a clue what they're doing" about "how they're doing it wrong"
04:03:24PsycoXulthat better? heh
04:03:35jmwi'm reading it the 6th time
04:03:41PsycoXulnm :p
04:03:41jmwhold on..
04:04:20jmwso you tell the experts about stuff they messed up
04:04:34PsycoXulyeah something like that
04:04:44PsycoXuli've been slacking on my job though
04:04:52jmwsounds like QA
04:05:00jmwQA sucks.
04:05:02PsycoXulsomehow i guess i let the player's distortion slip into 1.2 still
04:05:21PsycoXuli must not have annoyed linus about it enough
04:05:25jmwdistortion isn't a biggie.. just turn down the loudness. archos users are used to it
04:05:39PsycoXulnah, its volume-independant
04:05:48jmwreally. haven't noticed that
04:05:50PsycoXuland it's never happened on the stock firmware
04:05:59jmwvolume and bass independent?
04:06:02PsycoXulthe distortion i've gotten with rockbox on my player, anyways
04:06:09PsycoXulbass and trebble effect it
04:06:16PsycoXulbass increases it, trebble decreases it
04:06:30jmwbass always used to distort.. but i found turning the loudness setting down sorts it out
04:06:44jmwbut maybe that's just me
04:06:46PsycoXuli get it through the line-out even
04:07:01PsycoXuland when the volume's set to barely audible
04:07:11PsycoXulits sporadic though
04:07:19PsycoXulif i reboot it enough times it'll eventualy go away
04:07:20jmwwell kinda interesting.
04:07:48jmwi thought all that sound generation stuff was all hardware
04:07:51jmwnot rockbox
04:07:59jmwbut whaddo i know
04:08:13PsycoXulwell there's a lot of settings on the hardware
04:08:28PsycoXuland different ways to mess with it all
04:08:31jmwso you want it to stop distortion by knowing what the max should be set to for that song?
04:08:37jmwyeah it's complex.
04:08:59PsycoXulwith the default sound settings
04:09:14PsycoXulthen i'll either get it or i wont
04:09:21PsycoXuland when i get it it'll distort on any full-sounding song
04:09:25PsycoXulusualy with a good amount of bass
04:09:31jmwstory of my life..
04:09:42PsycoXulbut mostly when there's a big range of sound
04:09:54jmwyeah.. i always noticed that even with the original firmware
04:10:08PsycoXulfor example a bass drum hit won't always distort by itself but with a guitar going it'll distort when the bass drum hits
04:10:13jmwi wish it was more dynamic... read ahead to see whether it needed to adjust the bass
04:10:40PsycoXulbut then i reboot a few times and it'll come up without distortion
04:10:46PsycoXuland then it all plays clear
04:10:50jmwwell that sounds like a bug then
04:10:56PsycoXulit is
04:11:03PsycoXullike i said i've never gotten it with the stock firmware
04:11:08PsycoXuland i didn't used to get it with rockbox
04:11:21jmwyou don't have any idea what the status of the writing code is do you... i mean, whether anyone has tested anything yet
04:11:39PsycoXulwell i don't think there's any code for file writing yet
04:11:44PsycoXulbut write access to the disk works
04:11:50jmwi was really impressed with the speed of 1.2
04:12:05jmwwell why doesn't anyone write the file writing code
04:12:16jmwwhat else do they have to do damnit
04:12:43PsycoXulfor players you can define something in the build and it'll add the code to save the settings to a sector on the HD
04:12:44dwihnocvs has experimental writing
04:12:46PsycoXulwhich works fine for me
04:12:57dwihno(if you define it)
04:12:59PsycoXulbut even thats experimental, thus having to define it
04:13:20jmwi got the latest cvs.. the experimental stuff isn't integrated into the UI right?
04:13:36jmwoh if you define it
04:13:38PsycoXulwell there's no UI element to the settings saving code
04:13:55jmwwell i got a recorder anyway, so it stores it in that ram with a funny name
04:14:07jmwi desperately want a resume function.
04:14:26PsycoXulbut you gotta define SAVE_TO_DISK
04:14:33PsycoXulthe recorder just uses the rtc ram
04:14:50jmwso why is resume so far down in the feature list
04:14:59jmwi mean, on the recorder it could just store the resume stuff in rtc
04:15:08jmwhow difficult could it be
04:15:23jmwif i'm starting to sound like i'm whining i apologize
04:15:29jmwbut it's not fair!!!!!!
04:15:36PsycoXulplaylist resume shouldn't be too hard to impliment at this point
04:15:50jmwyeah that almost exactly what i want
04:16:30PsycoXulthere's no in-track seeking code at all yet that i know of though
04:16:33jmwanother thing i was thinking about was searching. i want something like winamp, and i think that needs a pre-generated index file.. and a simple UI and tree traversal around that.
04:16:43jmwwhy isn't searching on the feature list
04:17:00PsycoXulwell they're still trying to get the more basic features in there
04:17:05jmwin-track seeking isn't a biggie.. just remembering the location in the playlist is good enough for now
04:17:07jmwyeah i know.
04:17:30jmwi'm just excited by all this... i only found rockbox a couple of days ago, before that i thought my archos had hit a deadend.
04:17:53jmwhere was me thinking of buying a nomad.. eek
04:18:18PsycoXulpersonally, i knew rockbox was going to come around before it did
04:18:29jmwsuch a visionary
04:18:33PsycoXuli asked for an archos for xmas
04:18:33fraggletdoes the dsp support mpeg layer 2
04:18:55 Quit motiv01 (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
04:18:57PsycoXuland a few weeks later i found info on the disassembly of the archos firmware
04:19:04PsycoXuland the scramble/descramble tools
04:19:17jmwyeah that would have sparked the whole thing
04:19:25PsycoXulthat was the start of rockbox
04:19:35jmwcan't believe they went to all the trouble of scrambling it, and then use something as simple as rolling and xoring
04:19:36PsycoXulbut when i first decided i want one
04:19:59PsycoXuli just looked at it and thought "hey this thing can do way more than just play mp3's.. there's Going to be an open source software for it" and lucky us there came to be hehe
04:20:51jmwyeah.. it's an interesting machine. the default firmware really isnt very good, it's a pity that GPL will stop archos from buying rockbox and distributing by default
04:21:31PsycoXuli also figured there'd be hardware mods
04:21:49jmwyeah. do you know anyone who's put in a 40Gb ?
04:21:49PsycoXulwhich i've only seen a few of so far, and only a couple actualy useful has an archos forum
04:22:19PsycoXuli've seen people in there saying about having 40 and 60G's in their units
04:22:38PsycoXulthat place even sells pre-upgraded ones
04:22:38jmw60Gs. now that's something. where would you GET that much music
04:22:51PsycoXuli know people with >120G of mp3's
04:23:02jmwbet those aren't ripped CDs
04:23:18PsycoXulyeah, they just like download every one they find
04:23:28jmwyou can end up with a lot of crap that way
04:23:38PsycoXulcan? you Will
04:23:57jmwbut sometimes you gotta listen to crap to appreciate the ones you actually like
04:24:07jmwthe archos is good for that at least
04:24:12jmwbut then again so is the radio
04:24:18PsycoXulone time i downloaded a britany spears song
04:24:23PsycoXuland listened to it over and over in a fit of madness
04:24:34PsycoXuland then rm'd it
04:24:37jmwwere you looking at her poster at the same time
04:24:43jmwyou have to do that for effect
04:24:54PsycoXulit was interesting though
04:25:06PsycoXulit was all effects
04:25:34jmwi really want inter-track resume so i can rip some DVDs and listen to em
04:25:49jmwgot office space on there already, in chunks. kinda sucks though.
04:26:00PsycoXuli want in-track bookmarking
04:26:07jmwthat's an idea
04:26:28PsycoXuland also an arbitrary time skip
04:26:31jmwwonder how many features they could put into rockbox before they run out of ram to load it into
04:26:46PsycoXulwell the biggest firmware file that'll load is ~200K
04:26:52jmwtime skip for what
04:27:07jmwATS sounds like a good marketing acronym too
04:27:20PsycoXulwell say you got a 3 hour mp3 and you want to go 1 hour and 20 minutes into it
04:27:33PsycoXulwithout having bookmarked that possition
04:27:48jmw200k... i wonder if it'll support paging to go beyond that. like, loading bits of the code from disk.. overwriting ram each time.. putting back the pages to disk when they're not used. that could get us over that limit
04:28:03PsycoXulyeah i was thinking about things like that
04:28:06jmwah i see.. so a 'go to' function type thing.
04:28:24PsycoXulwith the ROLO patch functionality
04:28:31PsycoXulyou can load seperate firmware's on-the-fly
04:28:38jmwyeah. does it work?
04:28:43PsycoXuland that's good for games and mini apps and such
04:28:50PsycoXuli haven't tried it yet
04:28:59jmwyeah. contact/address manager would be a nice addition
04:29:06PsycoXulit works on players but not on recorders from what i've heard last
04:29:30jmwwe paid more too :P
04:29:41PsycoXulthe guy who wrote it just doesn't have a recorder [yet]
04:29:52PsycoXulso he couldn't test it on it
04:29:57PsycoXulit'll work eventualy
04:30:04jmwi guess that's the drawback of open source... no $$$$ ;)
04:30:05PsycoXuli'm hoping to see it go into cvs soon
04:31:01jmwso are you on the mailing list?
04:31:19PsycoXuland i'm not sure exactly what causes the 200K limitation either.. it could be circumvented entirely in some ways possibly
04:31:45PsycoXulit may be just another arbitrary value set in the rom firmware heh
04:32:14PsycoXulbut then it could be a hardware thing too, i dunno
04:32:16PsycoXuljmw: yeah
04:32:24jmwcould be. there's a ram buffer for storing bits of MP3s... i bet some of it is reserved for running code
04:32:34PsycoXulthere's 2MB of ram
04:32:42PsycoXulafaik the firmware gets loaded into a section of it
04:32:47PsycoXuland other sections of it are used for stack
04:32:52PsycoXulor something like that
04:32:56PsycoXuland then the rest of it for data
04:32:58jmwbut the more you use for code, the less you have for caching mp3s.. so more disk access... more battery consumption
04:33:18jmwbetter to have that ROLO thing.. paging
04:33:47PsycoXulmy last built archos.mod's only 56K
04:34:01PsycoXuland its a more or less fully functioning mp3 player at that size
04:34:15jmwyeah that's true.
04:34:20PsycoXulso i doubt we'll run into the 200K limitation any time soon
04:34:37jmwimagine what it'll be like when it is 200k...
04:34:43jmwthink i'd be satisfied by then
04:34:47PsycoXulwith the mp3 player fitting in 50K...
04:34:52fragglethey it does
04:34:58fraggletit plays mp2s
04:35:01PsycoXul150K of extra features is awefully bloated :p
04:35:06jmwfragg: mpeg layer 2s?
04:35:16fraggletnot really very surprising i suppose
04:35:21 Join motiv01_ [0] (
04:35:22fraggletbut interesting to know
04:35:26jmwyeah.. layer 1s are big
04:36:11 Nick dwihno is now known as dwihno|gone (dwihno@Bald067.Baldakinen.Umea.SE)
04:36:23PsycoXulbut yeah i want plugins
04:36:55jmwi want it to be able to play MPEGs (DVD) as black and white low-resolution on the LCD and play the audio so i can watch DVDs on the archos.
04:37:12jmwthat'll be worth a laugh
04:37:17PsycoXulyeah well 12mhz can't really do much
04:37:26jmwdon't be a pessimist
04:37:34fraggletone frame every few seconds
04:37:50PsycoXulas i understand it, it's pretty loaded down just sending data to the decoder
04:37:55jmwthat's all you need if you're watching the power puff girls
04:38:14jmwanyone overclocked it?
04:38:20jmwto.. perhaps.. 1.7GHz ?
04:38:40jmwit could double up as a stove top ;)
04:39:38PsycoXuli'm still waiting for someone to finish up the text viewer code
04:40:35PsycoXuli've already got a nice little selection of books on there
04:40:44jmwyou'd really need resume for that
04:41:00PsycoXuland bookmarks :p
04:41:10jmwum yeah.
04:41:16jmwhtml viewer would be cool.
04:41:32jmwor you could write something that converts web pages to text and then dump em on there
04:41:52jmwthen we'd need text to speech
04:42:02jmwcoz i can't read
04:42:11PsycoXulhow about a wireless network adapter that hooks into the 9600 baud serial port
04:42:17PsycoXuland a tcp/ip stack
04:42:27jmwyeah now you're talking ;)
04:42:55jmwbut usb man. serial ports are for old people with no hair
04:42:57PsycoXulsome people have actualy done some things already regarding an mp3-based tts system i think
04:43:01***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
04:43:12jmwthat might be useful if it had a KEYBOARD
04:43:20fraggletusb keyboard!
04:43:24jmwoh yeah
04:43:31jmwnow that's an idea ;)
04:43:51jmwi think we'll easily hit that 200k limit soon ;)
04:43:54PsycoXulyeah it'd be nice if we could use the usb port, but it's wired straight to a usb-ide controller that's designed to work standalone, apparently
04:44:10jmwthere's your hardware mod right there.
04:44:31PsycoXulall we can do is detect if its plugged in, enable the controller, and get out of its way
04:44:36jmwi'd stick a fork into my archos if i could plug a network into it one day
04:45:04fraggletwhat you really want is a network mod and a port of some popular p2p program
04:45:41PsycoXulyeah have the first mp3 player that can download mp3's for itself
04:45:59jmwand plugging one archos into another archos directly would be useful
04:46:02fraggleti wonder if it would be possible to raid several archoses using software raid
04:46:19jmwarchos RAID.. interesting idea
04:46:21fraggletprobably would actually
04:47:07PsycoXulhonestly i'm sure there's some tricks and hacks that the developers haven't found/thought of yet
04:47:36jmwyeah. i love these little expandable gadgets.. brings me back to the days of C64s
04:47:53jmwpunch cards... tin cans.. that kinda thing.
04:50:43PsycoXuli was too young to do much on the c64
04:50:51PsycoXulexcept learn to type when i was 3 :p
04:51:05jmwother than drool on it?
04:51:20jmwhow many words a minute
04:51:40jmwi can do 102.. but only with steroids
04:52:13PsycoXuli dunno
04:52:31jmwif you can count them yourself then it's probably below 20
04:52:36PsycoXuli was just making the same symbols my parents made when they loaded programs, plus the ones printed on the disk, and made it load a game :p
04:52:58jmwload a game.. woo ;)
04:53:47jmwi used to live in the UK.. we had ZX80s.. little machine with 1K of RAM.. on a RAM-Pack, if you lightly touch the pack then it restarted the machine
04:54:13jmwi spent most of my time killing flies, to stop them landing on it at an inconvenient time
05:01:32jmwhey gimme some nicks of some of the coders so i remember next time
05:06:43jmwme as in me or me as in you
05:07:13jmwwas it a constant literal or a reference ;)
05:10:25PsycoXulzagor too
05:10:36PsycoXul −−enable-voodoo Use Voodoo Fried Chicken spell to compile Gtk−− (use this only when everything else fails)
05:10:39PsycoXul −−enable-extra-crispy Roast the chicken extra-crispy (see voodoo option)
05:10:42PsycoXul −−enable-vegetarian The chicken will be a Tofu chicken (see voodoo option)
05:11:03*adi|home <= him
05:11:20jmwpsyco, are u ok
05:11:39PsycoXulthose are ./configure options to gtkmm
05:16:49PsycoXul i guess i might as well go ahead and install alsa
05:16:58jmwmmm salsa
05:18:07jmwi just d/l gnush.. it's a bugger to set up if you ask me.
05:18:29PsycoXulyeah? i never tried it
05:19:02jmwwell i wanted to build rockbox, ya know. thought i'd follow the instructions
05:19:02PsycoXullast time i tried cygwin it was on win98 and it just couldn't run *NIX software very well
05:19:26PsycoXulso i just stick with the real thing :p
05:19:39jmwthe real thing is XP right. ;)
05:19:52PsycoXulnah i use linux
05:20:14jmwah... yeah i heard someone uses that... i guess it was you
05:20:32PsycoXuli think several people in here do
05:20:40PsycoXuli'm pretty sure the main developers do
05:20:41*jmw backs up
05:20:42fraggleti do
05:20:50fraggleti am
05:20:57PsycoXulhey it's an open source project
05:20:59jmwyeah they do. i was just trying to make my life easier and getting rockbox compiling in VC7
05:21:00PsycoXulwhat do you expect?
05:21:10fraggletnot that i'm a developer but never mind
05:21:16PsycoXulpeople who actualy pay for their compilers? :p
05:21:31jmwpay? get a grip
05:22:12jmwthere's free free and there's "plain copied from the CD from work" free
05:40:29PsycoXulalsa and houdini have 2 bins of the same name :p
05:47:47jmwoh well, time to do something else. laters
05:50:02 Quit jmw ("if only i knew what")
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06:43:03***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
07:09:41 Join Bonkers [0] (
07:10:27Bonkersanyone know about how hard it would be to hack the original recorder firmware to record the digital in stream rigth to the hard disk instaed of encoding to MP3 first?
07:10:46Bonkersor should that be relatively easy by patching the rockbox firmware?
07:12:34PsycoXulbasically you can't do that
07:13:09PsycoXulbut if somebody were to program the mp3 encoder/decoder DSP for PCM, then you could record PCM subject to the bandwidth limitations
07:13:30Bonkersso the line in and digital in are wired right to the hardware encoder?
07:13:44PsycoXuli think so
07:14:01Bonkerswhat bandwith limitations are you thinking of? hard drive speed?
07:14:13Bonkersor the bus that the processor reads from the mp3 encoder?
07:15:10Bonkersbecause the only other idea I had was just making a device to connect to the USB and writing the digital stream to the hard disk, that seems much tougher thogh
07:16:20PsycoXulyeah you'd need a usb master of some sort for that
07:16:40PsycoXuland i mean the bus
07:17:05PsycoXulon players i think it's like 1Mbit, i think its more on recorders but i don't remember for sure or how much
07:17:20Bonkershrm, well would you think they have more than one bus?
07:17:34Bonkersbecause if not then it would be the same bus for the USB transfers which goes well over 1Mbit
07:18:12Bonkersbut 44.1Khz audio should only be 44.1kb/s, or am I not multiplying by something?
07:19:15PsycoXul44.1khz audio is 44100 samples/sec*16 bits/sample*2 channels
07:20:07Bonkersso that should be 172Kb/s
07:20:12Bonkersif I did that correctly
07:20:25Bonkersbut I didn't
07:20:29Bonkersthat's 172KB/s
07:21:01PsycoXuland 1Mbit is what 128KB?
07:25:22PsycoXulthere's probably some docs on the website that says somewhere about these things, but i dunno
07:25:29PsycoXulbut the biggest problem is programming the DSP
07:25:47PsycoXulnone of us have the tools or knowledge to do it, afaik
07:26:18Bonkershrm, well I'm browsing the datasheet right now
07:26:43Bonkersyou have enough code written to enable the decoder, right?
07:27:01PsycoXuloh rockbox works right now as an mp3 player
07:27:38PsycoXuli've been using it on my player for a while now
07:27:59Bonkersok, so we can talk to the chip
07:28:17Bonkersand I see a bit that says: audio data loop-through without encoding
07:28:20Bonkersthat looks slightly promising
07:28:56PsycoXulwell there's a lot of little things the various hardware components support that just aren't hooked into anything
07:29:03PsycoXulso don't get too excited about anything you see in the data sheets heh
07:29:46Bonkerswell I could always wire it myself ;)
07:31:24Bonkersthat bit is mixed in with stuff like which input to use
07:31:28Bonkersso I assume that has to be accessable
07:35:30Bonkerswhat's the current status of the record code? is it completly not written?
07:40:50PsycoXulyeah there's no file writing code yet
07:41:16PsycoXuland the rest of the aspects of recording i dunno if there's anything started yet besides whats there for playback
07:43:48Bonkershrm, maybe I could try my hand at hacking up some of this stuff
07:44:45Bonkerswhat's known about the hard drive interface?
07:46:18PsycoXuli dunno heh
07:46:38Bonkerstime to go code spulunking
07:57:51Bonkersthanx for your help
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08:43:05***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
08:43:18 Join Zagor [0] (
08:44:01adi|homehey zagor
08:55:33*Zagor has a hangover
08:58:03adi|homehehehe sorry
09:08:54adi|homeZagor, you see the email about lcd.[ch] and wps.c?
09:08:58adi|homeim fixing them now
09:09:49Zagorsettings.h too, probably
09:13:21adi|homeany other files that you know of/have seen while im at it?
09:14:05adi|homeand who is this jheiner?
09:14:31ZagorJustin Heiner. We need to update the nick list.
09:14:42adi|homeAlex has a good point about his loadable fonts issue...
09:14:47adi|homewe have had him on hold a while
09:15:25Zagoryes. I'll be merging his work today or tomorrow
09:18:25adi|homesettings.c looks fine
09:18:44adi|homeoops.. .h
09:19:57*adi|home wonders if its possible to check for CRLF on commits.. and running tr if needed.
09:23:17adi|homethe website getting updated, and the emails getting sent out, how does that get managed?
09:24:18ZagorCVSROOT/loginfo handles that
09:24:30 Nick Zagor is now known as Zagor|breakfast (
09:35:28adi|homewhen you get back.. can you tell me how i can get at the ''?
09:35:32adi|homei can't find it in cvs
09:44:04adi|homeone more ?
09:44:13adi|homeis there any way for me to co all thats in CVSROOT?
09:44:25Zagor|breakfastyup, just "cvs co CVSROOT"
09:44:28adi|homei keep trying the same way i pulled down all of firmware, but its no go..
09:44:42 Nick Zagor|breakfast is now known as Zagor|cleaning (
09:45:02adi|homegrrrrr.. i get no cvsroot specified!
09:45:47Zagor|cleaningcvs co CVSROOT
09:46:13adi|homeaha.. i see what i was doing wrong
09:46:19adi|homei figured /cvsroot
09:46:27*adi|home misses sccs
09:57:59adi|homeI made a change to
09:58:08adi|homedunno if you need to move it anywhere to have it update or not
10:07:54 Nick Zagor|cleaning is now known as Zagor (
10:08:03Zagorwhat was the change? i don't see any difference
10:09:05adi|homein the cvs commits
10:09:11adi|homeyou didn't close a td properly
10:09:15adi|homeyou had </t>
10:09:20adi|homei fixed: </td>?
10:09:29adi|homeit was throwing off the cols.
10:09:54adi|homealso.. any idea why my name in the commits isn't lineing up with everyone else?
10:09:59adi|homeseems im off by a space
10:10:03*adi|home is just being picky
10:10:46Zagoroff by a pixel, more like it on my screen
10:11:05ZagorMoz-1.0.0 here
10:12:42adi|homehmm odd..
10:12:47adi|homeseems a full char on mine..
10:12:50adi|homenetscape 4.x
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10:20:30Zagora rendering bug, I'd say
10:20:33*adi|home nods
10:20:42*adi|home shrugs
10:20:45adi|homenotghing to major
10:21:12adi|homeif i send you a new copy of debug.c could you compile it for me and send me a copy of the recorder firmware?
10:21:16*adi|home don't have a crosscompiler
10:22:32adi|homeJESUS friggin christ!
10:22:38adi|homewtf is wrong with my recorder
10:22:45*adi|home tosses his recorder out the window
10:24:51 Join Lear [0] (
10:25:15adi|homezagor you want email or dcc?
10:25:53Zagortry dcc first. i'm not sure it works through my router
10:26:41adi|homeokay.. that goes in the app/
10:26:54adi|homebasically its to fix the left key thing where it can be fixed
10:27:03adi|homeand a small hack on another style issue
10:27:06Zagorhum, I wonder where on my disk that wound up... :-)
10:27:21Zagorah, found it
10:27:28adi|homewas gonna say
10:27:31adi|homeshould be under the irc client
10:27:54adi|homedo we still ahve docs on the web for the solder point fix for the archos?
10:28:07Zagorit doesn't compile
10:28:15Zagor/home/bjst/src/rockbox/recorder/debug_menu.o(.text+0x2ac): undefined reference to `GET_BATTERY_VOLTAGE'
10:28:27Zagordebug_menu.c:165: warning: implicit declaration of function `GET_BATTERY_VOLTAGE'
10:28:43adi|homeokay.. one more sec
10:29:27adi|hometry that one
10:30:01Zagorok, works
10:30:06adi|homeokay cool...
10:30:17adi|homeeither i can commit it or you can..
10:30:33adi|homeits not a major logic change
10:31:11Zagorok, removing the loop
10:31:33Zagoroh, no. sorry
10:33:32Zagori'll commit it
10:34:09LearAnyone done any timings on using a "small" fliptable in mpeg.c (i.e., the byte-based one, rather than the word based big_fliptable)? I made a quick test and couldn't see any obvious difference...
10:34:46adi|homety zagor
10:34:56ZagorLear: linus has done tests. i presume he saw a difference since he chose the larger one.
10:34:59adi|homethe only one that doens't 'exit; with left arrow is io/ports
10:35:04adi|homethat code seemed to need it
10:35:24Learzagor: but was that before or after bitswap moved to internal RAM? :)
10:35:37ZagorLear: good point. that was before.
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10:43:09***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
10:43:43LearZagor: And maybe the fliptable would fit in internal RAM too?
10:43:55Zagorthe small one, yes
10:44:02Zagorthere's only 4K of internal ram
10:44:43LearYes, I did mean fliptable, not big_fliptable. :)
10:44:49ZagorI certainly wouldn't complain about saving 60K
10:45:09LearErh, 128 KB...
10:45:23Zagorah. 124 i meant :)
10:45:39Zagor*doh* i'm an idiot
10:45:55Zagor128k-256b i mean 8-]
10:49:05LearWhere would those other 128 k come from?
10:49:29Zagor256 bytes, for the small table.
10:49:46Zagornever mind
10:50:43ZagorI have a very hard time understanding why Archos chose to put an USB1.1 chip in their new Multimedia
10:51:33matpso they can sell you a 2.0 chip in 6 months time :)
10:51:36LearSounds strange, yes. I mean, the 20 G Recorder uses USB 2.0, doesn't it?
10:58:55 Join LinusN [0] (
10:59:21 Join MeRWiN [0] (
10:59:28MeRWiNI've gotta find a better editor
10:59:29Zagorhey linus
10:59:34MeRWiNThose CR/LF problems are mine, huh?
10:59:36ZagorMeRWiN: emacs for life
10:59:49ZagorMeRWiN: you're justin?
10:59:59MeRWiNZagor : i'm using windows, so I would prefer to find a windows client that writes unix
10:59:59*Zagor looks sheepish
11:00:03MeRWiNZagor: yup
11:00:04MeRWiNi'm justin
11:00:12Zagorntemacs rocks
11:00:25LinusNi use emacs wherever i go
11:00:26MeRWiNI'm really a pico/nano fan
11:00:31MeRWiNZagor : why sheepish?\
11:00:55Zagorsince I'm having a hard time connecting the IRC nicks to sourceforge usernames
11:01:02Zagori need to write a reference
11:01:12MeRWiN zag: there is a reference... needs to be updated though
11:01:15Zagoror, rather, just update the irc nick reference
11:01:16MeRWiNit's on the webpage the irc link
11:01:21LinusNZagor: have you approved me on the announce list yet?
11:01:39MeRWiNI still don't know most people's nicks/real names
11:01:44ZagorLinusN: huh? haven't seen an approve mail
11:01:51ZagorLinusN: i'll add you manually
11:01:52MeRWiNlinus is the easy one :)
11:02:09MeRWiNSorry about that CRLF. heh.
11:02:14LinusNBagder saw my sibscribe mail in the log
11:02:30LinusNi also received a "waiting for approval" mail
11:02:47Zagorodd. *looking*
11:03:27LinusNi was subscribing with a different From: address, that might be why i wasn't automatically approved
11:03:43LinusNbut you should have received a notice about that
11:03:47MeRWiNOK, bedtime for me... night all
11:03:52LinusNnigh MeRWiN
11:04:26 Quit MeRWiN ("[BX] MeRWiN has no reason... just kidding :)")
11:08:39LinusNtime to battle the Player distortion again... :-(
11:09:09 Quit PsycoXul ("wheeeeee")
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11:13:53LinusNZagor: can i also administrate the mailing lists?
11:14:19Zagorthat's done manually, so yes
11:14:29Zagoror, you mean the approvals?
11:14:31LinusNfile access rights?
11:17:05Zagor<Lear> Anyone done any timings on using a "small" fliptable in mpeg.c (i.e., the byte-based one, rather than the word based big_fliptable)? I made a quick test and couldn't see any obvious difference...
11:18:11LinusNLear: how did you measure?
11:19:11LinusNor was it Zagor, i can't see (mirc screwed up the display)
11:19:17Zagorit was lear
11:19:48Zagorhe said it didn't make much difference, and that maybe the move to iram means we can go back to the 256-byte table with no loss of speed
11:19:50LearLinus: Didn't really. Just compile with big and small table and looked if I could see any difference (in load time) when starting a new track...
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11:21:51LinusNLear: it's not all that visible on load times, but it has an impact on the watermark margin
11:22:12LinusNthe LED shows only the ATA read, not the bitswap
11:23:04*Zagor takes a deep breath and dives into Alex' font patch
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11:26:28LinusNLear: The word-bitswap was crucial when the bitswap code was in DRAM
11:29:44Zagorit might be interesting to do another test, with both the bitswap code and the 256-table in iram?
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11:31:51LearLinusN: He, it was a VERY quick test I made... :)
11:32:19LearLinusN: Listened a bit more now. Frequent (and fairly long) dropouts.
11:35:03LinusNZagor: still, the 256 byte swap will take approx. twice the time
11:36:14WetFlaxi busted mine last night by putting the wrong version on it
11:36:22WetFlaxand the og archos mod wouldn't work either
11:36:31WetFlaxand today i got the good one and all is well
11:36:36WetFlaxawesome guys
11:36:58Zagori'm just thinking, if we save 128K maybe with changed watermark we'll still have longer "down time"
11:37:19ZagorWetFlax: nice
11:38:26LinusNgott go now
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12:39:30matpanyone know anything about the menu code?
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14:12:21matpHmm, I thought enums were ints in C ?
14:12:29 Nick dwihno|gone is now known as dwihno (dwihno@Bald067.Baldakinen.Umea.SE)
14:13:45matpwould anyone be interested in a patch to allow you to define your own wps screen ?
14:13:55dwihnoIn what way?
14:14:04dwihnoConfiguring the entire WPS would be neat
14:14:08dwihnoSuch as positioning the icons etc.
14:14:30matpby choosing which line which tag gets displayed on
14:14:48matpim thinking id3 initially
14:15:45dwihnoit's probably not a thing I would use
14:18:03matpi've got some early code here which allows you to define, line by line, which tags you want to be displayed, or a blank line
14:18:57matpso, i can turn off say bit rate and filename, and just display artist,trackname and title
14:19:36dwihnoSome people will upriciate it.
14:19:57matpanyway, i'm getting a warning: initialization from incompatible pointer type when a pass a enum pointer to a function expecting a int*
14:20:10PsycoXulyou making it support player's too right? :p
14:20:47PsycoXulplayer users will really appreciate being able to tailor their WPS...
14:20:57matpI'm doing it for me and my recorder :)
14:21:15matpHow many lines does the player have?
14:21:31matpAnd the info is scrolled?
14:22:26matpall one 1 line, or 2 ? well, it would be fairly easy to define which tags get scrolled, and which don't
14:23:04PsycoXulit's 2 11char lines
14:23:12PsycoXuland yeah it would be cool if sections could scroll
14:23:52PsycoXullike to have on one line a time-elapsed display that stays one place and to have the track name or something scrolling next to it on the same line
14:24:13PsycoXulbut i dunno if there's any code for that kinda scrolling
14:24:26matpI just meant which tags were added to the line which gets scrolled
14:24:53matpBut yours sounds like a nice feature
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16:53:24freshmaker|coffeHej, is jheiner here?
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17:38:24lohaphi all i was just wondering if i wanted to create icons for the rockbox what format do u want them in
17:48:01dwihnoZagor|away: Please notify me when you return.
17:53:19lohapill take that as u have to draw them with c or no one knows
17:53:55dwihnoThey are stored as binary data
17:53:59dwihno(no shit) ;)
17:54:02dwihnoLSB first
17:55:31freshmakerAnyone got the scroll muting feature (jheiner's patch) to work as advertised?
17:56:19lohapis there anyway that i can like draw them and then get a program to create a binary data file
17:58:40 Quit mistaRx (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
18:00:25dwihnolohap: hmm... I create all my graphics in a C program which outputs includable code :-)
18:02:08lohapwell im a graphics designer so i can create the images but i know no c code give we a jpg or gif or bmp and im sorted lol
18:03:01lohapbtw whats the name of that app
18:03:15dwihnoI just make my graphics in a C program
18:03:16dwihnoLike this
18:03:23dwihno"###### ##",
18:03:27dwihno"#### ####"
18:03:45dwihnothen I run it and it generates includable .h data with the data in the corresponding format
18:03:57dwihnoSo it's not really an application
18:04:08dwihnoJust a hack to make stuff faster :)
18:04:37dwihnobut I would not be surprised if someone already has written such a utility to convert bmp's or such.
18:07:48 Join LinusN [0] (
18:08:51dwihnoLinusN! :D
18:10:14dwihnoDo you know anything about far Zagor has progressed with adding the font loading code?
18:11:04dwihnoI'd like to extend the font charset in the default font and I was thinking if it is bound to be moved to an external font file
18:14:46LinusNi don't know how far he has come
18:15:04LinusNwhat do you want to add in the detault font?
18:15:21dwihnoExtended chars
18:15:25dwihnosuch as umlauts etc.
18:15:38dwihnothus removing a lot of ?'s
18:15:56LinusNwe would like those in the default font regardless of the font loader
18:17:31dwihnohow much is missing?
18:17:37 Join RipnetUK [0] (
18:17:39freshmakerthe default font has only 128 glyphs, hasn't it?
18:17:44dwihnoOr does it only cover a-z, A-Z, 0-9?
18:17:54LinusNdwihno: i thought you knew, since you wanted to add new ones :-)(
18:18:06dwihnoI know naaaaathing :)
18:18:31LinusNi don't even know where they cone from
18:19:16dwihnoouter space! :O
18:19:43dwihnoSo THAT's what SETI is all about!
18:20:30dwihnoit's the 6x8 font which is used for the dirs, right?
18:21:03LinusNi think sy, yes
18:21:23LinusN(gawd, what has happened with my fingers lately?)
18:22:16dwihnoyou have been drinking too much coffee, causing incontrollable spasms becuase of the addiction
18:25:46lohapjust so i can search what is the exact name of the image format
18:26:39 Quit RipnetUK ()
18:26:50freshmakerdwihno: What's you current dosis? mine's currently 6-8 caffee latte per day.
18:27:37dwihnofreshmaker: About 2 per week perhaps. I drink a (large) cup of tea every day
18:27:38freshmakerSeems like the propfont is almost full iso5589-15 aka latin-9
18:27:54dwihnofreshmaker: thank you very much - I've spent a lot of time making it neato
18:28:05dwihnoI think it's full
18:28:24dwihnoIt still needs some tweaking, but at least, it works(tm)
18:28:32freshmakerand 0x7b - 0x9f ?
18:28:39 Quit lohap ()
18:29:33freshmakercute EURO glyph :-)
18:30:11dwihnoI haven't seen it for a while, is it gay? :)
18:30:25freshmakerit's ok for it's size
18:31:37LinusNgotta go, bye!
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18:58:43Zagordwihno: back
19:02:19Zagorlohap: don't worry too much about the format. submit a png if that's easier for you. we can convert it into the right format.
19:02:58Zagorand about the fonts: The default font is destined for the trash bin. We'll use proportional fonts all'round.
19:03:37Zagoror, rather, all fonts will be in the same format. of course you'll be able to import a fixed-width font if that turns you on :-)
19:03:52 Join mistaRx [0] (
19:03:58mistaRxanybody here?!
19:04:30mistaRxFirst of: I love rockbox!!!
19:04:58mistaRxbut, the contrast is much "fussier" than the stock firmware on my player6k
19:05:21 Join jmw [0] (jmw@
19:05:30Zagorok. we have no contrast setting yet, unfortunately. please add a feature request for it so we don't forget
19:06:11jmwhi all. anyone here built rockbox using VC7... when i run the sim it only displays 2 lines in the LCD display
19:06:17Syntheis there supposed to be a custom charging screen when you plug in the AC adapter on a recorder?
19:06:26Synthemine just looks like the stock firmware charging screen
19:06:27Zagorjwm: you're running the player sim, then
19:07:03jmwhold on let me check.. i swear i compiled both
19:07:39jmwit comes up with the recorder UI.. just 2 lines in the lcd. is there a #def not working?
19:07:57Zagorodd. you get the status bar?
19:08:08jmwno.. just blank below the 2nd line
19:08:37Zagordo you get the bitmap boot logo?
19:08:37jmwi'm using VS.Net tho.. maybe it was only tried with vc6.. coz that's what the makefile is named as
19:08:48jmwlemme check.. it's pretty fast
19:09:43jmwno.. just the text.. but the sim LOOKS like the recorder (has recorder 20 at the top)
19:10:05jmwwhere's the lcd type defined? i haven't changed anything at all, just using sh configure
19:10:10Zagorah, that's just because it's the only bitmap we have :-)
19:10:29ZagorI don't much about VC. In X11 and target, we change the Makefile
19:10:30jmwoh.. heh. so it might not be the recorder
19:10:44jmwdoesn't sh configure do all that for you?
19:11:08Zagorbut i don't think the vc build uses that info
19:11:17jmwwhere's the target defined
19:11:45Zagoreverything's in the Makefile
19:12:01jmwdo you use the makefile in the tools folder?
19:12:04jmwor in the uisim one
19:12:24Zagorneither. we create a makefile by calling ../tools/configure in an empty folder
19:13:10jmwoo i see
19:13:46jmwhmm the makefile it generates doesn't work with nmake though. pretty silly considering i selected win32
19:13:58jmwit doesn't like : VERSION=$(shell date +%y%m%d-%H%M)
19:14:56jmwbut i just replace that with VERSION=1 and it still don't work :(
19:15:02mistaRxWhy isn't the soundquality in rockbox as good as the stock firmware?!
19:15:41Zagorisn't it? i get better quality.
19:15:44Zagorwhat model do you have?
19:15:49mistaRxI can have higher volume and more bass with less distortion on my player6k
19:16:02mistaRxno distortion I mean!
19:16:05Zagorok, yes there's an issue with the players. Linus is working on it.
19:20:56mistaRxhow about remote support?!
19:23:19jmwwoohoo! it works! just had to add TARGET to the nmake cmd line!
19:23:43Zagorjmw: nice
19:23:57ZagormistaRx: coming soon. we have a patch written for it.
19:24:56mistaRxok have u tried it, is it reliable!(unlike with the stock firmware)
19:26:42 Join tension [0] (jmw@
19:26:42 Quit jmw (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
19:27:09mistaRxgotta go, bye
19:27:24 Quit mistaRx ()
19:27:26tensionis anyone working on resume functions for the recorder? (stored in rtc)
19:27:42 Nick tension is now known as jmw (jmw@
19:28:09Zagorwe can't store resume info in rtc, there's not room for it
19:28:20jmwreally? hmmm
19:28:30jmwnot even a series of folder offsets numerically?
19:28:41jmwlike 1/4/5
19:28:52Zagorthat could work. but it's not a very nice solution, imho
19:29:05jmwwell it won't work if you plug in the usb and move files around between resumes
19:29:14jmwbut it's better than not having any resume at all imho
19:29:42Zagorwe'll enable disk writing soon, so that problem will go away
19:29:53jmwhow is the testing going
19:30:41Zagori'm working on the font code atm
19:31:05jmwisn't disk writing more important?
19:31:53Zagori don't know. they're about equally important, i'd say
19:32:49jmwi was thinking of implementing file searching... but i think it would require the index to be built on the desktop first.. i want something like winamp searching
19:33:06Zagoryes, definitely build the index on the pc
19:33:15jmwis anyone else doing anything like that?
19:33:22Zagornot that I know
19:33:45Zagorwrite the indexer in a system-independent language, like perl or pure C
19:33:55Zagorno gui
19:34:02jmwyeah i agree.
19:34:50jmwcould have the index builder on the archos.. but it would take a while to run.
19:35:03jmwand would require file writing
19:35:07Zagoryeah, too much time (and battery) to be useful
19:35:32Zagoralso, the harddisk typically doesn't change much except when you have it connected via usb, so it makes more sense to run it on the pc
19:36:04jmwyeah it does.. unless you forget to.. the prob is you won't have any idea whether the index is up to date
19:36:23jmwit'll become a matter of not trusting it, and when it can't find what you want, you'll end up looking for it manually
19:36:30jmwbut i guess it's better than having no search at all
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19:36:43jmwdo we have any date/time stamp for when the last connect was?
19:37:36Zagorcould be useful, though
19:37:48jmwbut it all happens independent of the firmware right
19:37:57jmwso we wouldn't be able to do it?
19:38:11Zagorsure we can. we know when the usb is connected
19:38:26Zagorunless it's connected at boot, in which case rockbox never starts
19:38:30jmwcool. something to add to the info settings page when file writing is done
19:39:16jmwhmmm.. for me i normally do it at boot. oh well.
19:39:51LearHm.. Just saw that there are NiMH batteries with 2600 mAh (don't know if they're AA though). Anyone tried such batteries?
19:39:54Zagori used to do it too, but now I always let rockbox boot first. saves me having to reboot when unplugging.
19:40:01ZagorLear: where?
19:40:06jmwzago, that's true.
19:41:54Zagorthe 2000+ ones aren't AA size
19:41:59jmwzagor.. is the next version gonna have write enabled? and any rough idea of when it'll be out
19:42:24Zagorhard to say. but I think it will.
19:42:51LearAh, so the HR thing referred to the size. Sounded a bit too good to be true. :)
19:42:59jmwza.. but no idea of an ETA
19:43:24Zagorno. we aren't that formal. when we've added "enough" new stuff and ironed out most bugs, we release.
19:44:07jmwi gotta say so far i'm very impressed with what's in there
19:44:09Zagor1.2 took too long
19:44:29jmwjust when i thought my archos had hit a dead end
19:44:54LearBtw, deferred saving of prefs (for the player at least) would be nice, since as it is now, volume changes in the WPS aren't saved unless you go to the menu.
19:45:34ZagorLear: ah, right. that could be considered a bug, even
19:45:34LearAnother thing: The simulators at the web page seem to require VC runtime V7. I only have V6...
19:46:48Zagormost of the core team runs linux, so the win32 sim isn't as actively maintained
19:46:59Zagoredx is the win32 sim guy
19:47:27jmwi'll send it.
19:47:53jmwlear.. no dcc?
19:48:46Learjmw: nope, using chatzilla. And I can build a simulator myself, so I'll manage. :) Thanks anyway.
19:49:08LearJust thought I should mention the "problem".
19:49:30jmwyeah it's a bit screwed.. the makefiles it generates are vc6 too.
19:51:08freshmakereh, is it possible not to shut off digital out inbetween songs?
19:51:11jmwi just got the sim working.. now trying to use gnush to compile it to my recorder
19:53:29jmwit's not easy getting it working on win32
19:53:57Zagorfreshmaker: sounds possible, but I don't know
19:56:43jmwzagor: i'm getting undefined reference to memcmp. where's that defined
19:56:59Zagorare you using gcc 3.1?
19:57:20Hadakahehe, sounds familiar :)
19:58:05jmwdunno.. gnush v0203.. lemme check
19:58:23Zagoryup, that's gcc3.1
19:58:25jmwyeah.. says it's based on gcc 3.1
19:58:30jmwso what's the deal
19:58:50Zagorwe don't use memcmp, we use strncmp. but gcc3.1 converts all strncmp into memcmp without telling anyone
19:58:58Zagorso, basically, right now we can't compile with 3.1
19:59:03Zagor3.0.x works
19:59:12jmwgreat ;)
19:59:21Zagorquite annoying, i'd say
19:59:31jmwisn't there a switch for back compat?
19:59:54Zagornot that I've found
20:00:09jmwor maybe i should just downgrade gnush.. any idea which ver of gnush has gcc 3.0.x?
20:00:19Zagorthe previous
20:00:30jmwhope it's still avail to d/l
20:00:34jmwthanks for that
20:09:35Zagoradi|home: new FAQ: "how come when i use rockbox my jukebox's red "error" light turns on a lot but none with regular firmware?"
20:09:42Synthehiya all, I have a question that is somewhat on-topic. Anyone know of any DOS USB drivers that would allow me to see the Recorder when booting with a DOS floppy? I figure that since there is a linux driver, it may be possible
20:09:44Zagorbeen asked twice already
20:09:59ZagorSynthe: never heard of usb in dos
20:10:12Synthedoing search on google, there are other removable HD's that have DOS drivers
20:10:19Synthebut they're device specific
20:10:25Synthemaybe chipset specific
20:11:10Zagorsearching for "msdos usb driver" turns out nada. i don't think it exists.
20:11:41SyntheI didn't think so either :( I was hoping I could use this as a HD to save a ghost image of my Win.Net server system to
20:11:58Zagorso why don't you use our server then?
20:12:31Zagorfound something:
20:12:45SyntheI need another local partition or HD to back it up to, and the ghost program only works in DOS mode
20:13:03Zagorthere must be plenty of windows ghost programs?
20:14:02Synthenot when you're doing a low-level image of an entire partition
20:14:17Syntheespecially under the tight security of
20:14:46Zagorwell a ghost program would of course run as administrator.
20:14:58Zagorbut windows is and always will be a mystery...
20:16:31Zagorhave you tried DUSE?
20:17:46Zagorit might be that the drive it's written for uses a standard chip, so it will then work for the Recorder 20 too.
20:17:54Zagorit will definitely not work with any other model
20:21:31jmwi need a version of sh for windows.. any ideas
20:22:25jmwgnush right.. i mean, it was there a second ago and after installing 202 it's GONE!
20:22:37Zagormagic :-)
20:22:43jmwunless my memory is failing and it was called something else other than sh.exe
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20:26:08Learjmw: just throw in memcmp from newlib (that's where some/most files from firmware/common comes from anyway).
20:26:24Learjmw: And you need to fiddle the linker script a little as well.
20:26:26jmwbit late now i downgraded to 202 ;)
20:26:46Learjmw: I build rockbox with GCC 3.1.4. Works fine.
20:26:49Zagorit's silly needing memcmp when we don't use it. this is a compiler bug if there ever was one.
20:27:09jmwpretty serious bug too... dunno how they can assume it would be there when it's used in embedded systems
20:27:22LearMaybe, but I don't argue when it is easy to work around. :)
20:30:06ZagorI do. I'm the Code Police (dadaaa!)
20:30:32jmwi'm not going crazy.. i completely uninstalled it and re-installed 202 of gnush.. and sh still isn't there!!
20:31:22jmwi need a version from somewhere else. any ideas anybody
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20:37:46jmwjust installed 203 again and stole it from there. stupid 202.
20:38:34LearOdd... In the UI simulator, I can enter the settings menu in the dir browser, but not in the WPS. Using player keys...
20:39:48Zagorhmm, strange
20:40:11jmwlear.. are you building on NT?
20:40:34jmw(thats not related to your quesiton, i'm just asking)
20:41:42LearWin2k to be picky, but yes.
20:43:19***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:50:09jmwhow did you build it then...
20:50:20jmwdid you have to hack all the makefiles so they don't use mkdir for instance?
21:01:01jmwhow does scramble work. if i run scramble x y −− it doesn't create y. y?
21:01:51Zagorit should
21:02:18jmwi'm not having a good day today ;)
21:04:45jmwdoh! it might help if i use the right compiler.. gnush isn't gonna produce win32 code is it!
21:07:57Learjmw: using VC++ 6, and a newly created project
21:11:20LearWhen buying a replacement charger, how picky is the current output. I've read "at least 300 mA", but what is OK as a max?
21:11:55Zagoroh, around 8000 :-)
21:12:20Zagorseriously, I wouldn't worry about using too strong a charger, at least not on the rec20
21:12:33Zagorsorry, i mean all recorders
21:12:34Learwell, we're talking studio 20 here though...
21:13:02Zagorok. well they can't turn off the charger, so you might want to take that into account
21:13:24Learwould something like 1000-1500 mA still be OK?
21:14:07Zagori think so, as long as you don't charge for too long
21:14:17Zagoradi|home: your mail account is over quota
21:15:06Zagornimh's can take pretty high amps, but of course that also means they will take damage if you keep burning'em after they're full
21:15:45Zagorif you're planning over-night unattended charging, you might want to stick with a 300-500 mA unit
21:15:52 Quit jmw (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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21:16:32LearOK, thanks, now I know what to look for.
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21:21:20jmwalright i'll try again...
21:21:40jmwstupid connection.
21:23:36jmwi build everything, but when i run it the recorder just hangs at startup... anybody seen that before?
21:24:43Zagoron target?
21:24:54jmwthe recorder
21:25:05jmwok. but WHY! ;)
21:25:16Zagorsounds like your build setup is wrong somehow
21:25:43Zagorthose windows machines are tricky :-)
21:32:47dwihnoWindows is cute :-)
21:32:52dwihnoAt least, since Windows 2000
21:33:02dwihnoSo it only took Microsoft 5 years making windows usable :)
21:36:03 Quit jmw (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
21:38:29Zagordwihno: you listen to caramell. who do you think takes anything you say seriously? :-)
21:40:33 Join jmw [0] (
21:41:11dwihnoZagor: You really think I give a flying rat's ass about what other people think? :-)
21:42:10jmwstupid connection.
21:42:31jmwsorry to repeat.. but anyone any idea about archos hanging at boot after building using gnush
21:44:06Learjmw: can you tell if the ROM firmware can even load the file?
21:44:22Zagorjwm: how big is it?
21:44:45jmwit's 96k
21:45:02jmwhow do i know if it's even loading it
21:45:13jmwit doesn't display the boot screen... just hangs on the initial progress bar
21:45:49LearDon't have a recorder, so I don't know if that progress bar is a part of the ROM firmware or the Rockbox firmware... :)
21:45:59jmwit's part of the ROM firmware, i'm sure of that
21:46:19jmwi thought it was scramble messing up.. so i descrambled rox, re-scrambled it, put it back on and it worked fine
21:46:28jmwso it's something to do with my build. :(
21:46:40jmwlear.. do you use gnush 202?
21:47:16Learjmw: no, 3.1.1 which I compiled myself
21:47:26jmwoh yeah, you said
21:47:52jmwthere's nothing different about the recorder right, as far as building goes.. it's just functional right?
21:48:07Zagorwell there are some more files, but that's all
21:48:14jmwyeah, that's what i thought.
21:48:23jmware there any smaller test apps i could try on it?
21:48:26dwihnoZagor: music is just an expression of art. So what if I listen to Caramell. So you listen to Deep Purple? Am I supposed to take you more seriousley compared to if you listened to Peaches? :-)
21:48:31jmwwhat about that lcdv2.. that should work right
21:49:30fragglethas anyone thought of adding a hold function to rockbox
21:49:53Zagorfragglet: it's there already. MENU+STOP or F1+DOWN
21:49:58jmwzagor.. how come lcdv2 runs padit, and rockbox doesn't.. doesn't it need to pad it?
21:50:19Zagorno, our link script handles that
21:50:27fraggletoh cool
21:50:35jmwhmm ok.
21:51:24jmwso if i build lcdv2, stick it on the archos it should work right... lemme try it
21:51:36fraggletf1 and down are you sure
21:51:41fraggletdoesnt seem to work
21:52:34Zagorit only works in wps
21:52:37fraggletoh wait nm
21:52:38Zagornot in the browser
21:53:09jmwzagor.. lcdv2 just hangs too. grrrr.. can't compile anything for it. wah!!
21:53:45Zagorjmw: annoying. not much I can do, i'm afraid
21:53:46fraggletpressing off still turns it off though
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21:54:04fraggletis that a hardware thing
21:54:08Zagorfragglet: yes
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21:54:50Learfragglet: hardware does that, AFAIK. Good in case the firmware crashes. :)
21:56:01jmwlear.. what changes did you make with gnush 203 to get it to compile
21:56:31Learjmw: just added memcmp, IIRC.
21:57:24jmwwhere did you get sh from? coz kpit install for 203 doesn't seem to include it
21:57:46LearI ran it under cygwin.
21:57:53jmwah ok.
21:59:51jmwand you tested the output on your jukebox right?
22:06:23Learstudio, but yes, it worked fine.
22:06:37jmwcould anyone dcc send me a decompile of their mod file (using sh2d) so i can compare the output? is probably more useful
22:07:35Zagori'll send you mine
22:07:44jmwthanks zagor
22:09:56jmwzagor.. you have a player right? think that map will work on my recorder 20?
22:10:05Zagorthis was a recorder map
22:10:11Zagori have both
22:10:18jmwoh cool
22:10:49Zagorthe map is a text file showing which code and data is put where in ram
22:10:55Zagorcompare it with yours
22:11:05jmwyeah i'm just doing a diff now
22:13:59jmwwhat's the layout of the map file.. what do the first and second hex numbers rep
22:14:15jmwcoz the first number is always out by 10000 hex...
22:14:35Zagoraha! you're building the debug version
22:14:45Zagorit's relocated 10000 hex up
22:15:00jmwcool thanks for noticing ;)
22:16:41Zagorformat is <segment> <address> <size> <symbol> btw
22:17:47jmwyeah the sizes were often diff too
22:17:56jmwi'm rebuilding now
22:23:41jmwshouldn't the configure script take out debug if it's targeted at the device?
22:24:26Zagorno, debug is for the device. it's for using gdb over a serial line
22:24:35Zagordebug and simulator are not the same
22:25:37jmwhmmm.. ok
22:26:05jmwhow come you don't build the debug ver then
22:28:50jmwok now i'm not on debug.. the map file shows some differences in offset after a call to playlist_clear (about 4 bytes added in mine)
22:28:52Zagorsince you don't have the gdb stub to run it
22:29:11Zagordwihno: your font is 8 bytes high, right?
22:30:28dwihnoZagor: That is correct.
22:30:57jmwzagor.. COOL! it worked now!
22:31:25jmwthanks for all your help
22:33:22dwihnoZagor: 8x9, last byte containing w+h
22:33:33Zagorjmw: goodie
22:33:36Zagordwihno: ok
22:39:04jmwzagor.. do you know if there's any 'keyboard' like display UI (character input) been done for file renaming or writing
22:40:04Zagornot that i've heard, no
22:42:08jmwok. i guess i'll do that first, just to play around
22:43:20***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:45:58dwihnoSince when is Linux shareware?
22:46:00dwihno"Linux, a shareware operating system, supports a number of advanced networking features"...
22:46:52Zagorhaha clueless reporters
22:53:58jmwdoes rockbox support inverse video when doing a puts?
22:54:57 Join mistaRx [0] (
22:56:27Zagorjmw: no, you have to do a lcd_invertrect() afterwards. and only on recorder, of course
22:57:25jmwzagor.. what are you doing on fonts exactly
22:59:03Zagorfixing alex' patch
22:59:09 Quit mistaRx (Client Quit)
23:05:48jmwinvertrect just displays a black square on the sim.. (or maybe i'm using it wrong)
23:06:32Zagorcould be a bug too. bagder fixed it today, I think. when did you update from cvs?
23:07:29jmwok, this was from yesterday's release
23:07:51jmwyeah, it just calls lcd_bitmap with false.. and that just draws black, doesn't invert
23:08:00jmwi'll sync to the latest
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23:22:12adi|homeZagor you around?
23:22:34adi|homewhats the answer to the new FAQ question?
23:22:37adi|homeabout the error light
23:22:44jmwzagor.. you were right, it was fixed today (implemented today?).. works now
23:23:06Zagor"Rockbox uses the red LED as harddisk activity light, not as an error light. Relax and enjoy the music."
23:23:26Zagorjmw: good
23:32:02jmwwhat's the constant for the size of a character in non-prop mode
23:32:43jmwcool thx
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23:42:43binocularmonkhey Zagor, just stumbled across your jukebox firmware today.... well done chaps...
23:43:52binocularmonkI've given it a go and it runs smart, but how do I turn the thing off?
23:44:02binocularmonksounds a silly question I know
23:44:11Zagorpull out the AC cable and hold down OFF or STOP
23:44:56Zagor(ok, it's a DC cable. but you get it :-)
23:46:36binocularmonknice one..
23:46:38jmwsubmerging it in water has the same effect too
23:47:37binocularmonkany plans on supporting the remote?
23:47:46Zagoryes, we have a patch for it
23:48:02Zagorit'll go into cvs soon
23:49:12mistaRxhave u tested the remote patch?!
23:49:20binocularmonkI've been plagued with lockup problems with my JB6000, these have seemed to have disappeared with your firmware, any coincidence...
23:49:36mistaRxme too!!!
23:49:42Zagorbinocularmonk: sounds excellent! i have no clue why, though :-)
23:49:55Zagorother than the lockups being firmware bugs, of course
23:50:00Zagorwe don't have bugs ;-)
23:50:38*adi|home points out we have features ;)
23:51:32binocularmonk:D... I took off your firmware and replaced 5.07a and it was back to ripping out the batteries a load of times to get the thing to boot.... put rockbox back in and it works..
23:52:12Zagorwhich model do you have?
23:52:24binocularmonkalthough I haven't tested it for long tho...
23:52:47binocularmonkit has v 5.03 firmware
23:53:03binocularmonkJB 6000
23:53:18Zagorwell, i'm off to bed. see you later, guys!
23:53:26binocularmonkc ya...
23:53:27 Quit Zagor ("Client Exiting")
23:53:45binocularmonkI'm off too....
23:54:00binocularmonkc ya..
23:54:04 Quit binocularmonk ()
23:54:56jmwlater all.
23:54:58 Quit jmw ()
23:55:17datazoneweird... i think my jukebox no longer charges the battery when the adapter is plugged in
23:55:29datazonethats why i thought it was broken
23:55:44datazonegood thing i had a seperate battery charger
23:55:49mistaRxwhish model
23:56:06 Part motiv01_
23:56:41mistaRxhave u tested if it isn't the AC adapter which is the problem?!
23:56:41datazoneon the plus side, it made me get up the nerve to open it up.. so i will probably upgrade the hard drive
23:57:06datazonewell, the adapter works, cause i can use the device as a portable hard drive only before
23:57:30datazoneif i keep my finger on the power button, it worked as a hard drive
23:57:48datazonei know
23:58:20datazonetime to try our rockbox for the first time
23:58:23mistaRxI've got the same model!
23:58:49mistaRxyou'll be without words!

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