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#rockbox log for 2002-08-12

00:05:30 Join jmw [0] (jmw@ool-18e451ed.dyn.optonline.net)
00:37:23 Quit PsycoXul ("blaaah.")
00:38:03matpjust wondering what ppl do with silence tracks on their ripped albums ...?
00:42:02 Quit jmw (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:43:59***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:45:10dwihnosilence tracks?
00:48:28 Join tension [0] (jmw@ool-18e451ed.dyn.optonline.net)
00:48:39 Nick tension is now known as jmw (jmw@ool-18e451ed.dyn.optonline.net)
00:56:51 Join PsycoXul [0] (psyco@adsl-63-205-43-56.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net)
01:00
01:20:23 Quit Zagor ("Client Exiting")
01:39:44 Quit mistaRx (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:57:24 Quit jmw (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:00
02:35:32 Join telliott [0] (trilluser@208.251.255.120)
02:37:24telliottI am getting the Archos Jukebox 20 recorder. Do you think that it maked decent recordings?
02:40:54webmindthink, it's a pretty ok device i think
02:42:39telliottI'm also getting it for the speedy usb transfers. O'll have to play with the recording feature. What model do you have?
02:42:51telliottusb 2.0
02:44:02***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:47:16 Part telliott
04:00
04:44:06***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
04:46:26 Join jmw [0] (jmw@24.228.81.237)
04:52:48jmwi could really do with a strstr implementation
05:00
05:13:16 Quit jmw ("and that's all i have to say")
06:00
06:44:08***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
07:00
07:17:54 Join LinusN [0] (~linus@labb.contactor.se)
07:20:46 Nick LinusN is now known as Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se)
07:20:52 Nick Linus is now known as LinusN (~linus@labb.contactor.se)
07:23:49Mode"#rockbox +o LinusN " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
07:24:02 Join edx [0] (~edx@pD9EA9873.dip.t-dialin.net)
07:41:19 Join Bagder [0] (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se)
07:41:30Bagdermorning
07:43:48LinusNmo
07:43:56Mode"#rockbox +o Bagder " by LinusN (~linus@labb.contactor.se)
07:44:02*Bagder bows
07:51:28LinusNThe new loadable fonts patch works OK
07:51:36Bagdercool
07:51:50Bagderbut no cool internal fonts for it yet?
07:51:56LinusNbut the spacing between the folder/mp3 icons is a little small...
07:52:12Bagderok
07:53:02LinusNand the row pixel positions are calculated from the top of the LCD rather that fron the top of the file area in the dir browser
07:53:23LinusNso the first row is only half with the 5x7 font
07:54:02Bagderthose are probable assumptions in non-font code
07:54:14BagderI mean that the font is of a certain size
07:54:44LinusNyeah, the dir browser lets the LCD calculate the row positions
07:54:49LinusNlcd driver
07:54:53Bagderok
07:55:01LinusNit should use putxy
07:58:59HesMorning
07:59:25Bagderhey Hes
08:00
08:01:11HesWhat do you guys think of Uwe's suggestions?
08:01:51*Bagder hasn't really gotten the details, only scanned the mail
08:02:06HesThe last mail from the list...
08:02:31 Quit edx (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
08:02:40Bagderyes... but I have a million more mails too i need to get sorted ;-)
08:05:58HesI don't quite understand his point about user-toggleable charging.
08:06:42HesI honestly think that if the user plugs in the charger, his intention is to have the batteries charged.
08:06:52BagderI agree
08:07:08Bagderand if he intend to keep it connected, "deep discharge" is a fine option
08:07:11LinusNHes: no, he wants to keep the unit alive while listening to music at work
08:07:24HesAnd that the charging algorithm he suggest is generally the one that's already implemented.
08:07:35LinusNand, of course, having the batteries charged when he leaves for home
08:07:48HesLinusN: right
08:07:51LinusNHes: basically the same, yes
08:08:40HesDo you see any sense in keeping track of the 'phase of charging'?
08:08:52LinusNI think his point is that you might want to do things differently depending on the batteries status when you plug in the charger, and that he believes that the -deltaV detection may fail when the unit is running
08:09:31Bagderthe -deltaV triggers too early, that's for sure
08:09:39HesYeah, the falloff detection gives false positives every now and then
08:09:59Hesbut we can improve it...
08:10:40HesBut I think it's easier to tune the current code instead of rewriting, it's quite a short piece of code stilll?
08:10:48HesAlthough quick to rewrite too 8-)
08:11:57Bagderwell, if the algorithm generally remains, then I can't see why a rewrite would be necessary
08:12:06LinusNi agree
08:12:28LinusNstill, it's nice to have several opinions on this
08:12:32HesYeah
08:12:50LinusNthat way we can really try to do the best
08:13:19Bagderyes, trying out different approaches is A Good Thing
08:13:55LinusNthe battery charging stuff is very important
08:14:06Hesand non-trivial...
08:14:17*Bagder nosd
08:14:20Bagderhm
08:14:23Bagdernods ;-)
08:14:35LinusNfor one, we really want to charge them to the maximum, because the battery time will depend on it
08:14:53LinusNand we don't want to risk wearing them out too much
08:16:32HesThe EX70's & rockbox was a huge success this weekend, drove to the countryside (some 4 hours of driving in one direction)
08:16:49LinusNEX70 rule hard!
08:17:01Hesthe EX70's lowered the noise level inside the helmet quite a lot
08:17:42Hesbut still - lower bass can not be heard because of much background noise in that area, and it comes in through the head not the ears 8-)
08:21:55LinusNHehe, the mailing list traffic surely got a boost when the 1.2 was released...
08:22:35Bagderyes
08:22:42Bagderquite a flood right now
08:24:05LinusNbut still, the Yahoo guys don't seem to understand that Rockbox has a separate mailing list for support :-(
08:24:48Bagderwell, that's because ppl continue to reply in that forum ;-)
08:35:51LinusNI'll hang Zagor for not directing people to the rockbox list/bug report system
08:36:07BagderI'll back you up ;-)
08:36:40LinusNwe definitely do not need to be active on two forums!
08:37:19Bagderwell, the archos group has 3398 members...
08:38:55LinusNso?
08:39:21Bagderit's good to be able to reply to things there
08:39:31Bagdernot saying it should double the rockbox list
08:39:46dwihno*shake his head*
08:39:48dwihnoGood morning
08:39:53LinusNmorn
08:39:57Bagdermorn dwihno
08:40:04dwihnoI could really use a can of coffee
08:40:23LinusNBagder: yes, it is out duty to answer people on that list and tell them where to get help
08:40:32 Join edx [0] (~edx@pD9EAA659.dip.t-dialin.net)
08:40:40LinusNnot give the help on the forum
08:40:46Bagderyou're right
08:41:16LinusNwe have no obligation to help people whatsoever
08:41:38Bagderof course not
08:41:55LinusNand if they don't want to join the rockbox list, or file bug reports on our soite, it's their problem, not ours
08:42:09LinusNout site
08:42:14LinusNour site
08:42:24LinusN(my fingers are thick today)
08:44:09***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
08:58:51Bagderanyone tried the multi-line scroll patch?
09:00
09:01:40Bagder"If somebody sues you, you change the algorithm or you just hire a hit-man to whack the stupid git."
09:01:47Bagder(Linus Torvalds on patents)
09:02:02LinusNi like that
09:02:13Bagderhe has a way with words ;-)
09:02:14LinusNBagder: no, i haven't tried that patch
09:03:30Bagderthe amount of patches flying in is thrilling, but quite demanding too
09:04:02LinusNindeed
09:04:21HesLoadable fonts support? (N)
09:04:26LinusNand we suddenly have to filter them
09:04:28Heshrrr
09:04:37LinusNHes: what is the problem?
09:04:53HesWondering if I should try them or not 8-)
09:05:05Bagdergo go go
09:05:10Bagder:-)
09:05:20Hesallright...
09:05:42Bagderbut we should add some decent internal fonts too
09:06:12LinusNBagder: the current internal fonts are very decent IMO
09:06:22BagderI disagree
09:06:23LinusNexcept for the lack of glyphs
09:06:47LinusNBagder: what is wrong with them?
09:06:49Bagderthe lack of lots of letters for iso8859-1 and the non-proportional
09:06:53LinusNi think they look terrific
09:06:57Bagderthey do
09:07:24LinusNBagder: we still need monospaced fonts
09:07:25Bagderthey need to be proportional
09:07:29BagderLinusN: why?
09:07:40HesI want
09:07:57LinusNbecause displaying data in columns is hard with proportional fonts
09:08:02Heswith being optional 8-)
09:08:14BagderLinusN: not with putsxy()
09:09:27Bagderbut ok, there could be a monospaced font included
09:09:36BagderI still think default shouldn't
09:09:36LinusNyou may be right
09:09:41 Join matsl [0] (~matsl@as13-4-5.mal.s.bonet.se)
09:09:50LinusNBagder: i agree
09:10:07LinusNbut today it is still plain ugly, regarding the scrolling
09:10:11Bagdermorning matsl
09:10:17LinusNand the space between the icon and the text
09:10:23LinusNand the row calculation bug
09:10:26matslmorning
09:10:33Bagderwell, those are bugs that need to be fixed
09:10:42Bagder... and I *do* want smooth scrolling
09:11:04Bagderundependent of the letter widths
09:11:21LinusNthat would be nice
09:11:32LinusNand that it scrolled when it actually needs to
09:11:45Bagderyes
09:11:46LinusNmaybe that bug is fixed now, btw
09:11:50HesShould we do the scrolling at pixel level so we could scroll graphics etc too? Virtual desktop 8-)
09:12:14LinusNthe scroll code needs to be very much revised
09:12:14Bagdermaking a virtual desktop would be very easy in fact
09:12:32Bagderbut I was more aiming at making the scroll thread scroll text by pixels
09:12:43LinusNsince tit is based on text lines
09:13:17Bagderexactly, and the fact that everything is stored in columns
09:13:22LinusNthe text line concept is a little weak now when a line can be of any width
09:13:24LinusNheight
09:14:10Bagderthat doesn't change much though
09:14:32LinusNnot in the current code, no
09:14:40Bagderlcd_update_rect() will be slight less good though
09:14:43Bagderslightly
09:15:07LinusNindeed
09:15:36Bagderbut compared with the current code, it will still be a lot faster
09:15:38*edx has a c++ question
09:16:21edxif I have the constructor of a base class which calls a virtual function, does it call the funciton of the derivered class or itself?
09:16:24LinusNedx: posing a c++ question in the rockbox list is like asking about Allah in a catholic church
09:16:27 Join Zagor [0] (bjst@as9-5-6.k.s.bonet.se)
09:16:40Zagorhi guys
09:16:44edxhi
09:16:46LinusNyo Zagor
09:17:00Bagdermorning Zagor
09:17:30Zagorwhat, no checkins yet? ;)
09:17:43*Bagder is swamped with unrelated work
09:18:18matslBagder: Simulator doesn't show all characters. Known problem?
09:18:25Hadakahm
09:18:31Zagormatsl: the font lacks some chars
09:18:38Bagdermatsl: yes, the player sim has the same charset as the recorder
09:18:56Bagder... which doesn't match the actual product's charset
09:19:00Zagordwihno: any progress with the font?
09:19:20matslSorry. Not that problem. To few chars shown on the line.
09:19:35Bagdermatsl: oh, didn't know that
09:19:39matslMy line gets chopped of.
09:20:09matslI miss the two last characters.
09:20:17Bagdermatsl: you think you can fix?
09:20:51LinusNedx: calling virtual methods from a base class constructor is bad practice IMHO
09:21:00matslBagder: I can look into it later. Must work some today. Wiktor-projekt at 10:00
09:21:51LinusNedx: the virtual method will be the one of the base class
09:22:18LinusNyou can definitely not expect it to be anything else
09:23:44matslcu
09:23:59 Quit matsl ("Client Exiting")
09:27:56edxLinusN: thanks
09:28:07edxvery impractical in my opinion...
09:29:29Hadakaguesses are you are doing one of two things wrong
09:29:41LinusNedx: yes, but tying your hands by using C++ is impractical too
09:29:43Hadakaeither you are trying to make things in constructor which do not belong in a constructor
09:30:13*LinusN is starting a language war
09:30:44Hadakaor you are trying to virtualize initialization by calling virtual functions, where as you should use separate constructors for each class, perhaps calling a common simple init function
09:31:44*Zagor wonders how the Cursed Language made it into Rockbox discussions?
09:31:59Hadakablame edx
09:32:58*Bagder runs for coffee
09:33:48*LinusN runs for his life, afraid of the C++ warriors
09:33:56edxLinusN: why? tying my hands using C is impractical because I can do everything in C++ i can do in C (I dont refer to RockBox here and I do not want to create a flame war, in my opinion it is good to use C for Rockbox because we don't need C++)
09:34:06*edx runs off as well
09:34:27LinusNi rest my case
09:35:10LinusN(i was actually talking more about OO than C++)
09:35:17Zagori think i'll add some notes in CONTRIBUTING about 80 columns and the virtues of whitespace
09:35:24LinusNZagor: indeed
09:35:54LinusNZagor: you might add something about keeping the style in the file
09:36:09HadakaLinusN: there are not too many languages compiled directly to machine code to choose from
09:36:21ZagorLinusN: yes
09:36:42LinusNHadaka: true
09:39:33HesHey, is ata_disk_is_active() good and working at the moment?
09:42:04BagderZagor: linus mentioned something about bad look in the dir browser with the new font patch
09:42:08LinusNHes: it should be
09:42:38LinusNHes: it tells you if the disk is spinning
09:42:45LinusNnot actually active
09:44:16HesExcellent. I just made the charger try to skip voltage samples if it's spinning.
09:44:37BagderZagor: perhaps the CONTRIBUTING file could mention that we enjoy if the subject mentions PATCH when patches are posted
09:45:02BagderI sometimes find it hard to dig up patches from the mails
09:48:34HesWhere are the instructions for setting up the fonts? where to put them?
09:51:03Bagderat least before, it was supposed to be in the root dir
09:51:06*adi|home gets the feeling thats going into the FAQ
09:51:20Bagderadi|home: we should sort it out properly first
09:51:28*adi|home nods
09:51:40adi|homei just know its going to have to go into the FAQ
09:51:48adi|homeatleast where to get instructions when we decide
09:51:50BagderI think we might want to add a 'rockbox' dir or something for stuff like that
09:52:00BagderI hate to pollute my root dir
09:52:33LinusNa 'doc' dir?
09:52:37Hes.rockbox with the hidden bit set...
09:52:48LinusNah, on the target!!!
09:52:49BagderLinusN: not docs, fonts, config, blablabla
09:53:14BagderHes: that's a good idea
09:53:15LinusNi meant a 'doc' CVS dir
09:53:21Bagderaha
09:53:29LinusNi want a font selector in the settings
09:53:30Bagderwell, we have the docs in the www dir
09:53:38HesWhich font is good?
09:53:45LinusNnone of them
09:53:45ZagorHes: none :-(
09:53:47BagderLinusN: what would the font setting do?
09:53:50Hesargh.
09:54:06LinusNselect the default font to use
09:54:23LinusNi want to be able to have several fonts on disk
09:54:25BagderLinusN: sounds like a good idea
09:54:38Bagderthen we need a font browser ;-)
09:54:47LinusN.rockbox/fonts
09:56:04LinusNi am so tired of that distortion bug
09:56:11LinusNi can't reproduce it
09:56:27BagderI have a feeling that is gonna give us headache
09:56:58Topic"http://rockbox.haxx.se/" by Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se)
09:57:05LinusNit sure gives the user a headache, with that noise! :-)
09:58:58LinusNi wish we had some guy in stockholm that had the problem
10:00
10:00:25Mode"#rockbox +o Zagor " by LinusN (~linus@labb.contactor.se)
10:01:56*LinusN reads the wishes for "ON goes to WPS in all menus" and fears them
10:04:58 Quit matp ("Client Exiting")
10:06:22Zagorit might be a good idea to change the MENU +/- for volume on player into ON +/-, since that's what people are used to from the archos firmware
10:07:10LinusNi don't like that
10:07:13BagderZagor: a suggestion regarding the manual on the site: we rename the current one to manual-1.2 and then try to keep the manual/ one up-to-date
10:07:25ZagorLinusN: why not?
10:07:35LinusNON is used for WPS toggling
10:07:36ZagorBagder: good idea
10:07:53ZagorLinusN: so? MENU is used for menu toggling
10:07:56LinusNusing MENU for quick-access settings is more consistent
10:09:03Zagoryou have a point there
10:09:13LinusNthen all options are reached via the MENU key
10:09:22Zagoreither release MENU and use the menus, or hold menu and use shortcuts. i like it.
10:09:42LinusNwe had a long discussion on IRC about that
10:10:09LinusNand we finally ended up with the MENU key solution
10:10:20LinusNi like it a lot
10:12:08Bagderdo you get the player sim to get full lines?
10:12:25Bagderdisplayed
10:13:13Zagornope, only 9 chars here
10:13:27BagderI think I made the window too narrow
10:14:07Zagorit doesn't look too narrow. there's space for char 10 and 11, just no chars. :-)
10:14:20Bagderoh
10:14:40Bagderthen I don't know
10:37:26LinusNBagder: who calls drawtext() in the player sim?
10:37:54Bagderdrawtext() ?
10:38:42Bagderaha
10:39:01Bagdernothing uses that
10:39:06Bagderthat's just very old code
10:39:20LinusNwhy is the old code there then?
10:39:28Bagderno one removed it
10:39:33LinusNhow does a text get displayed then?=
10:39:47Bagderthe player sim uses the actual recorder font code
10:40:09LinusNin lcd.c?
10:40:11Bagderyes
10:40:41LinusNhow about LCD_WIDTH then?
10:40:51LinusNit is 112 pixels, right?
10:40:58Bagderyes, that is probably what hits the limit
10:41:18LinusNwe should have separate code for the player text
10:41:23Bagderit would need to be modified for the player sim
10:41:27Bagderfeel free to add
10:41:38LinusNoh, thank you! :-)
10:41:41Bagderright
10:41:49Bagderthat's kind of what I think too
10:42:14Bagderso let's adjust LCD_WIDTH when the player sim is built ;-)
10:42:26LinusN:-)
10:42:56Bagderthe "least resistance" approach
10:43:23HesThe disk-spinning-sample-skipping seems to work, i get 0.01v-0.02v variation while playing on a half full battery set
10:44:11***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
10:46:59Bagdercoolio
10:49:15ZagorThe Code Police leaps into action :)
10:49:23 Nick Zagor is now known as Zagor|donuts (bjst@as9-5-6.k.s.bonet.se)
10:53:41ironi__he y ppl
10:53:49Bagderhey ironi
10:53:51ironi__u have any tips on mobos for athlon
10:53:57ironi__(a bit off topic) =)
10:54:30Bagderwell, for dual CPU there is only one :-P
10:54:31LinusNZagor|donuts: Code Police? Nah, rather Space Patrol :-)
10:54:54Bagderrockbox.haxx.se runs dual Athlon
10:55:09LinusNironi__: i have A7V333. It works good for me
10:57:23Hadakahey btw, gcc-3.1 didn't work for sh1? how about gcc-3.2?
10:57:48Bagderdo they still offer sh-1 ?
10:57:55Bagderthey planned to drop it
10:57:55Hadakaeh?
10:58:04LinusNi think they have dropped the sh1 support
10:58:20Hadakahm
10:58:21Bagderhttp://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/2002-06/msg00049.html
10:58:33Hadakaso in a few years, we can no longer use gcc for rockbox?
10:58:40Bagderright
10:58:57LinusNHadaka: we will probably be able to use it for a long, long time
10:59:13Bagder3.0.4, yes
10:59:16Hadakapuuh
10:59:19Hadakathat sucks majorly
10:59:28LinusNas long as they don't remove the downloads for the older gcc compilers
10:59:49Hadakawell compilers get new versions for a reason
11:00
11:00:19 Join notch|busy [0] (hidden-use@arthur.techprt.co.uk)
11:00:23LinusNyes, they want to improve the internals for newer architectures
11:00:33Bagderhehe
11:00:37Hadakano future support is like cutting the head off a chicken
11:00:38Bagderwell they *do* fix bugs too
11:00:43Hadakait may still do something, but not for long ;)
11:01:00LinusNBagder: yes, but mostly on "modern" architectures
11:01:12Hadakabut C99 support is still not complete
11:01:19Hadakanot to even talk about the enhancements in C++
11:01:36BagderLinusN: "mostly" perhaps yes, but not exclusively
11:02:08LinusNHas anyone thought of what mp3o might do to change playback speed?
11:02:22LinusNa special DSP hack?
11:02:55LinusNi think they have that
11:03:13LinusNthe hardware specs are very similaro to ours
11:03:33Bagderwhat is mp3o ?
11:05:16ironi__LinusN: i was looking at that
11:05:39ironi__but i am thinking maybe epox or abit
11:07:49LinusNBagder: m3po, sorry.
11:08:03LinusNit's a standalone CD MP3 player
11:08:32LinusNbased on SHx, MAS3507D and DAC3550A
11:08:50Bagderok
11:11:43LinusNhttp://www.m3po.com/_eng/index_eng.html
11:12:06LinusNit claims to be able to change playback speed when preserving the pitch
11:12:16Bagderwow
11:12:44LinusNthey *must* have a custom DSP code for that
11:13:41Bagderperhaps Micronas offer that kind of code
11:13:48LinusNprobably
11:13:57Hes0.01V is 1 centivolt, right? 8-]
11:14:05LinusNyes
11:14:30LinusNi wish Uwe could join this channel
11:15:34Bagderthat would be good, yes
11:15:39LinusNit's so frustrating to have that kind of technical discussion in a mailing list
11:16:50LinusNespecially when he isn't up-to-date with how the hardware works
11:22:02LinusNi just can't understand why the Archos Multimedia Jukebox comes with USB1.1
11:22:58Hadakayeah, that is indeed weird
11:31:36dwihnoZagor|donuts: regarding the font... I got that font program working and I've started the "conversion". It will probably be done this evening, or early tomorrow.
11:38:30LinusNI see the name Vladimir Pantelic in the m3po firmware binary...
11:38:53Bagderhehe
11:38:56Zagor|donutsdwihno: nice!
11:38:58 Nick Zagor|donuts is now known as Zagor (bjst@as9-5-6.k.s.bonet.se)
11:39:10LinusNThat name keeps popping up
11:39:50Bagderwell he worked/works for Archos, doesn't he?
11:39:58LinusNpossibly
11:40:25LinusNi also assume that he has something to do with the pitch control on the m3po
11:41:28dwihnoZagor: how well does the loadable font stuff work?
11:41:46 Nick LinusN is now known as Linus|lunch (~linus@labb.contactor.se)
11:41:51Zagordwihno: fairly well, but for fixed-width fonts only yet
11:42:02Zagori'm working on that now
11:44:03Zagorwhen it works, all other font code well be thrown out
11:44:07Linus|lunchZagor: 5x7 is proportional, and it works OK
11:44:25Zagoroh, it does?
11:44:29Linus|lunchexcept for the spacing against the icons
11:44:44Linus|lunchhowever, the bdf2ajf converter sucks
11:44:56Zagoryes, very much
11:45:09dwihnoZagor: kick-ass! :D
11:45:10Linus|lunch5x7 is about the only proprtional font it can convert
11:45:24Zagorit's not proportional. m is the same width as i
11:46:08Linus|lunchsorry, my mistake
11:46:26Linus|lunchit looked proportional for a while, then i got sober
11:46:30Zagorhehe
11:46:42Zagorno more drinks at lunch for you
11:46:48Linus|lunch:-)
11:47:56dwihno:-)
11:53:08dwihnoyum
11:53:09dwihnogrt
12:00
12:12:15DEBUGEOF from server (Connection reset by peer)
12:12:15***Cleanup
12:12:15***Cleanup
12:12:15***No seen item changed, no save performed.
12:12:15***Exit
12:12:21***Started Dancer V4.16p1
12:12:21***Connected to irc.eu.openprojects.net on port 6667
12:12:21***Logfile for #rockbox started
12:12:22***Server message 501: 'logbot :Unknown MODE flag'
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12:25:01Zagorahh, helvetica is a nice font
12:28:43 Nick Linus|lunch is now known as LinusN (~linus@labb.contactor.se)
12:34:54Zagorand it's a full unicode font. neato++
12:35:53LinusNis helvetica free?
12:36:01Zagoryup
12:36:28dwihnow/h?
12:36:28Zagorcomes with XFree86
12:37:28Zagorproper height 10, but we can do some tricks to shrink it
12:37:46Zagor90% of a glyphs have upper and lower 2 empty
12:38:34Zagorit's not perfect, but a good starting point for testing
12:39:50Zagorthe full unicode font is 80k in bdf format (text)
12:41:11Zagoruh, it's not full. it just has a few extra pages other than 8859-1
12:41:19Zagori'll be quiet now :)
12:41:31LinusN(at last)
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12:41:44*Zagor sobs
12:42:43LinusNmaybe i was too hard on that guy on the mailing list about the 200-file limit... :-)
12:44:17Zagorno, i think it was alright. if he wants to waste his ram with huge dirs he knows how to do it
12:45:11Zagorf*cking spammers!
12:45:21LinusNdidn't we merge the remote serial code?
12:45:31Zagornot yet. feel free to.
12:46:17dwihnoWhat status is the loader thingy? It bugs on 1.27d firmware?
12:46:55LinusNyes
12:47:06dwihnohmm
12:52:31HesDoes it work on the recorder yet?
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12:53:36 Nick PsycoXuul is now known as PsycoXul (psyco@adsl-63-205-41-15.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net)
12:54:29HesAhh, religion wars, here we come.
12:54:46LinusNHes: i answered "yes" on the question if it bugs :-)
12:54:56Zagorlong time since I saw a *real* religion war in mailing lists :-)
12:56:18LinusNsome people just don't have a sense of humor
12:58:13HesYeah. I had a really small link to the 'shit happens' list, some wooden-eyed random US-based web surfer got really angry at it
12:59:57Heshttp://hes.iki.fi/misc/shit.html in case it's new to someone 8-)
13:00
13:00:39HesActually the guy/people that wrote the thing knew quite a bit about world religions 8-)
13:04:25LinusNZagor: i think you should merge the remote control patch, since you have one :-)
13:04:51Zagorhehe. opk
13:04:52Zagorok
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13:23:50Zagorcool, it works. just need to test on player too.
13:24:05Bagderthe remote code?
13:24:37datazonedude, how did you guys get the volume to be so much louder?
13:25:18Zagorthere are lots of sound settings in the chip
13:25:33Zagorwe also got the player to pop and crackle sometimes :-(
13:25:45ZagorBagder: yup
13:26:03Bagderneato!
13:26:12Bagderpeople have been wanting that
13:26:26*Bagder bows before notch
13:26:39Zagorit'll have to be bit of a kludge though, since there are more buttons on the remote than on the player... :-)
13:26:55Bagderhehe
13:28:39Zagorbah, of course the batteries of my busted-charger player are empty :(
13:29:33ZagorLinusN: you should probably get my player-new for distortion hunting
13:29:45LinusNI have it
13:30:03Zagorumm, do I have the old?
13:30:15*Zagor mixes up all his ... archi?
13:30:18LinusNyes, that is why we swapped them the other day
13:31:52Zagorah, right
13:32:46HesI want to build a remote controller with large buttons which can be operated with driving gloves on 8-)
13:33:10HesVolume control while driving is a must, the noise level difference is huge between 80 and 140 km/h
13:33:11Zagordon't you have those buttons in the steering wheel? just a bit of soldering...
13:34:35HesNo steering wheel on my bike 8-) and no extra buttons either. http://hes.iki.fi/photo/mopot/?c=v&ctype=medium&first=11&count=1
13:34:57HesWant something that I can strap on the outside of the driving suit
13:35:37dwihnoNice bike
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13:40:23LinusNhi eric
13:40:29elinenbehello
13:44:45elinenbemy box rocks!
13:45:17LinusNoh, really?
13:45:33Zagorhaha
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13:46:50 Quit elinenbe ("Leaving")
13:46:58LinusNlots of elinenbe:s here...
13:47:24Mode"#rockbox +o Bagder " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
13:48:01 Nick elinenbe_ is now known as elinenbe (~eric@pcp01722108pcs.union01.nj.comcast.net)
13:49:29Zagorany ideas how to handle the vol+/- buttons on the player? Recorder gets BUTTON_UP/DOWN, but those are the same as PLAY/STOP on recorder. We should split them IMHO, so player doesn't use UP/DOWN in normal code
13:49:53Zagorthose are the same as PLAY/STOP on *player*, i mean
13:51:33Zagoror, we introduce two new buttons: BUTTON_VOL_UP and BUTTON_VOL_DOWN. I think that's best.
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13:53:35Zagorbouncy bouncy
13:53:44 Join Bagder [0] (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se)
13:53:52HesI think I got the charger working much better now. Charged to 5.52V without false stops
13:54:02ZagorHes: nice
13:54:02dwihnoIn the future, some kind of individual button configuration in the settings menu would be neato
13:54:06Bagdernice
13:54:23Bagderyes, we need to start thinking on how to allow custom keys definitions
13:54:28elinenbeHes: good work
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13:55:35elinenbeif there are custom keys and all settings can be customized, then people will not aregue with rockbox developers, but will argue amongst themselves about the proper way to set things up
13:55:52Zagorthat's a good thing
13:56:05LinusNinstead we will have a hard time answering support requests
13:56:14LinusN"i pressed LEFT and it crashed"
13:56:16Zagorthat's a bad thing :-)
13:56:21Bagderhey
13:56:26Zagori doub't we'll have many such bugs
13:56:27Bagderwe can limit functionality for that reason
13:56:46LinusNi assume you meant "can't"
13:56:53Bagderuh yes ;-)
13:57:01*Bagder can spell ;-P
13:57:49LinusNwho changed the Pitch control bug report?
13:57:55Zagori did
13:58:10LinusN"next release"
13:58:20Zagoruh? no i didn't do that
13:59:24LinusNi guess that field changed itself
13:59:39LinusNi wish we could get our hands on that DSP code...
13:59:48LinusNwell, we can, but not legally
14:00
14:00:08Zagori didn't change anything. i closed a similar request days ago. get a grip.
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14:00:49elinenbeget someone to get it for you who is young and doesn't care about legal ramifications
14:00:55LinusNZagor: i just received a mail, saying that it has changed
14:01:16Zagoryup, me too. but this time it wasn't me.
14:01:18BagderI think the reporter changed it
14:01:27Bagdersince he filed the same comment again
14:01:36Zagorthe mail should contain who changed it
14:01:45LinusNthat was some days ago
14:02:07LinusNhehe, now i see. he changed it himself
14:02:30LinusNwhat is it with that person?
14:02:41Zagori'm removing that group
14:02:45Bagderpeople are generally insane ;-)
14:03:56Bagderexcept us of course
14:04:24LinusNno need to mention that
14:05:34LinusNdo we know what DSP that is in the MAS?
14:05:57Zagori don't think it's public
14:05:58Bagderits a Micronas one too
14:06:15Bagderwe did get some good indications from some docs somewhere
14:06:22Bagdercan't remember exactly right now
14:07:00LinusNi thought it was some Motorola DSP
14:07:14BagderI don't think so
14:07:29Bagdercan you reach edx's page?
14:07:42LinusNwhat page?
14:07:47Bagderhttp://codeforce.d2g.com/rockbox/autocvs
14:09:07LinusNseems dead
14:09:12Zagori'm opening the request item again, for investigation
14:09:20LinusNwhat item?
14:09:35Bagderthe change pitch
14:09:36LinusNic
14:12:23***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
14:13:19Zagor"we have completely revised and refined the entire speed change without disturbing the pitch" and a downloadable firmware/os. time for some reverse engineering, methinks!
14:13:23notch|busyHes: Re driving remote - check out : http://www.geocities.com/notching/Sony-archos-remote.html
14:14:31LinusNZagor: yes, but reverse engineering the DSP code is beyond reach without knowing the DSP type
14:14:47Zagoryeah, but can always steal it ;)
14:15:11LinusNI have the firmware in my hexl-mode emacs
14:15:32LinusNthe HW seems very Archos-like
14:15:36Bagder"MAS has a digital signal processor (DSP) core offering a performance of 40MIPS or 80MIPS for complex multiplications."
14:15:40Zagorwe should at least be able to conclude if they use custom dsp or not
14:15:54LinusNI would say they do
14:16:08Zagori think so to, but we want to be certain
14:16:09Bagder"Owing to the fact that the 3507's DSP core does not need to run at full speed, the power consumption can be kept quite low."
14:16:13LinusNhow else coudl they do it?
14:22:06Bagder"For fast access of internal DSP states the processor core has an address space of 256 data registers, which can be accessed by the device's I2C bus."
14:22:21 Nick Zagor is now known as Zagor|out (bjst@as9-5-6.k.s.bonet.se)
14:23:26HesCommitted charger changes now...
14:24:02Hesbattery_level_safe() now uses the last minute's average too.
14:24:05notch|busyhas anyone with cvs dev acess committed my serial remote source?
14:24:10Hes(if one is available)
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14:24:35Bagdernotch|busy: Zagor is working with it, but I don't think he committed anything yet
14:25:04 Nick liam_ is now known as jedix` (~liam@fwott1-1.cis.ec.gc.ca)
14:26:38notch|busyI dont think he likes my #idef 's ;-)
14:26:45notch|busy#ifdef
14:27:14Bagderwell, he is The Code Police ;-]
14:28:50edxBagder: my page is down.. that is the dns service i am using is down :/
14:29:17Bagderah, ok
14:29:42edxhmm id like to have a top level domain but i have a dynamic ip..
14:32:59HesFrom: Uwe Freese <mail@uwe-freese.de>
14:32:59HesReply-To: rockbox@cool.haxx.se
14:32:59HesTo: Heikki Hannikainen <rockbox@cool.haxx.se>
14:33:03HesHeh, funny To:.
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14:57:13*Bagder is in a bad mood today
14:57:14 Quit elinenbe (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
14:57:38*LinusN is afraid of Bagder today
14:58:02*Bagder curses all silly people in the world
14:58:25*LinusN doesn't want to be cursed
14:59:23Bagderit so annoys me, I want to build an app with like 200 source files, from various directories...
14:59:37Bagder... and I can build one nice makefile with automated dependencies and things...
15:00
15:00:00Bagder... until I found out that N directories are using the same name of some local header file, so I can't use the same CFLAGS for all files...
15:02:10Bagderso now I need to write N separate makefiles
15:03:02 Quit edx ("later")
15:06:12notch|busyCurrent CVS: Main.c is not compiling...
15:06:49Bagderisn't it just a collision in your cvs update?
15:07:31notch|busyis there an easy way to refresh my main.c (not update it?)
15:07:46Bagderjust delete it and then update
15:07:52notch|busycheers!
15:08:43notch|busyyep must have been a collision....
15:10:18Bagderthe compile status shows all green, so it looked like that
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15:35:56 Join edx [0] (~edx@pD9EAA659.dip.t-dialin.net)
15:41:35Bagdersourceforge isn't updated to 1.2 yet
15:43:55LinusNBagder: how to update?
15:44:17Bagderftp the files to upload.source.net/incoming/
15:44:23Bagderthen go admin => release
15:44:40Bagderupload.sourceforge.net/incoming/
15:45:01Bagderlots of clicks and fill in descriptions etc
15:47:39 Nick Zagor|out is now known as Zagor (bjst@as9-5-6.k.s.bonet.se)
15:47:44Zagoredx: your mail is bouncing again
15:47:56Zagoredx:(reason: 550 5.7.1 <edx@codeforce.d2g.com>... Relaying denied)
15:49:46Zagornotch|busy: what's this "let the hardware settle" delay? do you have a number how long we must wait?
15:50:34LinusNZagor: it is the time you have to wait for the baud rate generator to get in synch
15:50:54Zagorwhich is how long? I want to replace the busy loop with a sleep
15:50:55LinusNi can't seem to find the passus in the data sheets that tell us exactly how long to wait
15:51:03LinusNi think it's "1 bit time"
15:51:18LinusNsleep(1) will be enough
15:51:22Zagorok
15:51:49Zagoris it vital to read SSR1 before setting it?
15:52:00LinusNyes
15:52:06Zagorroger
15:52:22LinusN" a bit is cleared after a 1 has been read and 0 is written to it"
15:52:31Zagorah
15:55:27notch|busyZagor: I dont have acess to the standard remote, so I dont know how fast it can spit data at the serial port
15:56:23Zagorok. it doesn't spit very fast, so I removed the repeat limiter
15:56:41notch|busyIt may send data at faster rates in order to impliement the track fast forward function
15:57:15notch|busyokay
15:57:55LinusNWe need a way to find out how to set the REPEAT flag correctly?
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15:58:38notch|busywondered why I couldnt get FF to work - I gues it was never implemented for the remote in the standard archos firmware...
15:59:02LinusNreally?
15:59:13 Quit Monkey__ (Client Quit)
16:00
16:00:02notch|busyWell can you fast forward within a track with the remote - anyone know (stock firmware) ?
16:00:37*Bagder has no remote
16:01:51 Nick notch|busy is now known as notch (hidden-use@arthur.techprt.co.uk)
16:02:44edxZagor: yes.. the damn DNS supplying server is down
16:03:09notchThinking about it...George Styles posted to the list that the remote code worked fine...
16:03:31notchso I guess there was no FF function on the remote...
16:03:37BagderZagor: did you try the update_rect() yet?
16:12:27***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
16:14:28Hes 5:12pm up 81 day(s), 7:23, 24 users, load average: 3.47, 7.24, 7.41
16:14:30Heswhops
16:14:34Heschannel lottery.
16:14:47Bagderdid we win? ;-)
16:17:35Hesnope
16:17:37 Part LinusN
16:17:39Bagderdarn
16:22:21 Join LinusN [0] (~linus@labb.contactor.se)
16:24:10BagderLinusN: tunnel probbs?
16:24:27LinusNyup
16:27:55BagderJulien Labruyre updated his design #5
16:28:02Bagderhttp://rockbox.haxx.se/tshirt-contest/designs.html
16:29:32LinusNtime to go home
16:29:36LinusNcu giys!
16:29:38Bagderbye LinusN
16:29:47 Part LinusN
16:30:23ZagorBagder: nope, haven't tried yet
16:31:12HesPlease try out the tuned charger...
16:33:28 Quit edx ("later")
16:40:24 Join grummel [0] (lamamba_@h135n1fls34o883.telia.com)
16:40:58grummelany bodi here?!
16:41:05Bagdersure
16:41:47grummelu tried the remote patch?!
16:41:54Bagdernope
16:42:00BagderZagor has
16:42:08Bagderand notch ;-)
16:42:22grummeldo u know what they think?!
16:42:34Bagdernotch wrote it, so I guess he thinks it works
16:42:41grummel=)
16:43:10BagderI've heard no complaints yet anyway
16:43:41notchwell apart from coding 'faults' :-))
16:43:44grummelis it reliable(unlike with stock firmware)
16:43:49grummel?
16:44:18notchhow is the stock unreliable?
16:45:18grummel"they" say that it sometimes has got a will of it's own!
16:46:16RipnetUKi will test the remote patch tonight... thestock remote IS unreliable, it sometimes dies, ad you haev to press a volume key to get it working again... when i tried the original Notch patch, it was much better. Not only that, but the keys were mapped direct to 'real' keys, so it was a lot morelogical than the Archos remote
16:48:54notchwas that on a player/recorder
16:50:36RipnetUKrecorder - just to be clear - it was the original (archos) which had the problem, not the Notch patch
16:51:56grummelok, I think I might just go out and buy me a remote
16:53:56RipnetUKgrummel - be warned, they are a bit crap... they EAT battaries, and they require taking apart to replace the battaries, and the wire is not good at handling being bent - i had to chop mine and re-solder it because the wire broke inside as it entered the remote unit... while doing this, i knocked a surface mount resister off the board, and it took some to get that back again :)
16:54:15notchbetter to make your own :-)
16:54:53notchSomeone suggested a mod to take a sony remote - that would be cool.
16:54:54grummelahhh!
16:57:20RipnetUKbut would still need power, or a 'take apart my baby (archos)' mod
16:58:24RipnetUKyeah, sony remote would be cool, i have a spare from my Clie which I never use for MP3
16:58:28RipnetUKjust a resistance
17:00
17:04:49Bagdergotta run
17:04:51 Part Bagder
17:12:25datazoneso what batteries do you guys find are the best for the archos
17:13:17datazonei just picked up some 1700mAh energizers... hope they are good
17:13:32datazonenow to find a good charger
17:18:10notchRipnetUK: you dont need power if you mod the archos with a pullup resistor....
17:19:27notchi.e. turn the digital input to an anlog one an add a pullup (10k).
17:19:38notchand then write some code of course!
17:48:12RipnetUKyeah, but I aint soldering my favorate toy :(
17:48:41RipnetUKcan we use the analog in somehow? the line in?
17:51:10RipnetUKif we could take a sample, we could use a lot less power from the battary in the remote if we stuck it through a sony remote, and measured the voltage on the analog in? impossible? most likely :(
17:51:57RipnetUKi suspect we are stuck with the RS232 remote if we dont want to take the Archos apart
17:55:37Zagorthe line in goes directly to the mp3 encoder on the recorder. on the player, it goes nowhere.
18:00
18:12:29***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
18:16:48RipnetUKok
18:24:24RipnetUKare loadable fonts proportional? i ask because the config file seems to make them muturally exclusive
18:25:20Zagorthey are not yet, but they will be. prop fonts and loadable fonts use different code, that's why they are mutexed. all font code will be merged to a single set soon, though
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19:00
19:06:27 Quit grummel ()
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19:54:25RipnetUKjust tried the remote code - it doesnt work properly :( vol up/down do not do anything - in original patch they correctly mimicked the up/down allowing directory browsing...
19:55:08RipnetUKusing JBR20
19:55:35Zagorvolume only works in wps, just like the keypad
19:55:49Zagorwe can add volume during browsing too, I just didn't do it in the first patch
19:56:22ZagorI agree it's a little unintuitive
19:56:27RipnetUKno, in the original patch, the volume keys did up/down in the dir list
19:56:32RipnetUKand volume in WPS
19:56:37RipnetUKexactly like the real keys
19:57:02Zagoryes, but that's wrong. it would makes player/recorder remote work differently
19:57:47RipnetUKbut its better... volume doesnt seem to do anything even in WPS
19:58:18RipnetUKi liked it before when the vol keys were the same as pressing up/down on the unit itself
19:59:00Zagorso what should they do on player?
19:59:43Zagorsee my point?
20:00
20:00:05RipnetUKdont know... whatever people want i guess, but why limit the functionality of recorder because the player has less keys? surely we need to use the #defines to change the behaviour, or allow a setup menu to assign remote keys to real keys, which is different on the player and recorder?
20:00:47RipnetUKat the moment, you cannot browse around the jukebox with the remote - which was a major feature (IMHO) of the original Notch patch...
20:00:52Zagorsure, we can add that VOL_UP goes up in the browser. but they ARE different keys. I will not have different keys send the same symbol.
20:01:28Zagorthe fix should be in apps/tree.c, not firmware/driver/serial.c
20:01:54RipnetUK??? surely a one-one mapping of keys on remote to keys on unit is whats required? not sure exactly how the player works as dont have one, but i liked the way the remote keys just emulated the real keys
20:02:17RipnetUKmaybe I should build the player simulator and have a play...
20:02:29RipnetUKgotta pop out, but I promised I would report on the remote when I got home... talk later?
20:03:08RipnetUKbut my other point is volume keys do NOTHING even on the WPS
20:03:14Zagorbut there *are* no volume keys on the unit, so we can't emulate "real" keys. that was just an assignment. the remote control introduces two *new* buttons
20:03:35ZagorI just noticed that too. Very strange, I had it working previously. Checking.
20:03:49RipnetUKI see, could I ask for an option to do a straight one-to-one mapping for recorders? its really simple that way
20:03:50Zagorsure, see you later.
20:03:55RipnetUKbye
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21:19:06RipnetUKzagor - thanks for fixing that :)
21:19:34RipnetUKits works good now
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23:32:47*adi|work screams softly in the night...
23:33:31Zagorthat dream again? about forever having to use archos' firmware? there, there...
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23:34:17datazonei think that was the "oh crap the volume is at 100%, my poor ears" scream
23:34:18*adi|work sniffles
23:34:37adi|workno.. it has to do with 'users' not acceptings agreeded upon limits
23:34:45adi|workthe whole 200 dir thing
23:34:54adi|workdon't we have more important thngs to work on?
23:34:59*adi|work sighs
23:35:00*Zagor agrees
23:35:41datazonehey, whats wrong with wanting 1 gazillion gazillion songs in a directory? :)
23:36:03adi|workhehe nothing
23:36:13adi|workbut im on the verge of pulling my LART out
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23:36:58Zagorhave you read about serial ata? they're cutting the number of data wires down from 40 to 7
23:37:18Zagorbut at the same time, they bump the number of power lines from 4 to 15... *sigh*
23:37:38Zagorso, basically, the mess will be constant
23:37:53*adi|work sees your mouth moving but doesn't understand your words
23:38:14Zagorhttp://www6.tomshardware.com/storage/02q3/020812/index.html
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23:42:28Zagorheyy, bagder!
23:42:32Bagderhey ho
23:42:48matslBagder: my friend!
23:43:22Bagdermatsl: I've figured out the player sim problem
23:43:34matslBagder: need hint on the missing two chars problem in ... so
23:43:59Bagdermatsl: since it uses the recorder lcd functions, and they're limited to the LCD_WIDTH...
23:44:11Bagderwhen I increased the player sim font, it grew beyond that size
23:44:13Zagorahhhhahah
23:44:24Bagderso it need to be enlarged conditionally
23:44:27matslok
23:44:46matslok
23:44:53BagderI haven't tried this myself, but it feels right ;-)
23:45:20matslwhat's the story about it using the recorde lcd-functions?
23:45:43Bagderbasicly because those are working graphical functions with pixel control
23:46:13*Zagor rolls his eyes as the 200/dir discussion comes around for lap #2...
23:46:40matsland the lcd_width isn't the same for player and recorder then?
23:46:56Bagdermatsl: LCD_WIDTH is set to 112 pixels as that is how wide a recorder screen is
23:47:05Bagdera player sim need not to have that limit
23:47:18BagderI set it to use the largest font
23:47:21Bagder16 pixels
23:47:29Bagderor is it 12?
23:47:33Bagderwhatever, times 11
23:47:38Bagdermakes more than 112
23:48:01matslBagder: ok. I'm getting the picture.
23:48:37matslBagder: I have time now to try it. OK?
23:48:51Bagderwell I don't ;-)
23:48:54Bagderso you go
23:49:12matslok.
23:49:44matslZagor: What's so fun with the 200 dir problem?
23:50:50Zagorit's not fun, that's the whole point. it's an academic question. only one guy has ever bumped into the limit, but everyone screams "a limit! get rid of it now!!!"
23:52:35matslIf I'm not mistaken I'm heading straight against tripping over it. But I have only a 6GB disk so I guess I'm safe for now ;-)
23:53:00Zagormay I ask how you navigate among those 200 files?
23:53:06Bagderwell, if anyone feels strong enough they write a fix for it
23:53:14Bagderif they don't, they don't feel strong enough ;-)
23:53:45matslSequential ...
23:54:51matslZagor: Anyway, I don't say get rid of it. I only say tell the user whats wrong when it happens.
23:55:19Zagorthat's a reasonable point

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