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#rockbox log for 2002-10-01

00:09:18 Nick _seb_ is now known as seb-away (user@
00:12:21 Join hardeep [0] (
00:17:17elinenbehardeep: you use linux?
00:17:49elinenbemaybe someone else here can help me quickly.
00:18:00elinenbeI have 2 partitions that I want to tar up.
00:18:14elinenbethey are /usr/local and /usr
00:18:40elinenbewhat is the command to tar them up keeping directory structure and permissions and ownership?
00:19:40Zagortar cpf tarfile /usr/local
00:20:00Zagormaybe cpsf even
00:20:23Zagornah, s shouldn't be necessary
00:20:34elinenbes is "same order"
00:20:52hardeephmmm, there's a "−−same-owner" flag, not sure if it's necessary though
00:20:52elinenbethen to untar it I would just tar xvf archive.tar?
00:21:23hardeepelinenbe: yes
00:21:32elinenbeI think I should use −−same-owner and −−same-permissions ?
00:22:08hardeep-p is same permissions
00:22:11elinenbeso, -sp
00:22:13elinenbegot it.
00:22:33elinenbewill it get all the sub directories too?
00:22:55elinenbewhen I tar /usr won't it get /usr/local in that tar?
00:23:38Zagorumount /usr/local first
00:24:17elinenbegot it.
00:24:26elinenbemucho gracias
00:24:37elinenbethank you very much
00:30:08Hadakaif it's a separate filesystem, you can also tell tar to stay on one filesystem
00:30:24Zagori couldn't find that option
00:35:46Hadaka -l, −−one-file-system
00:35:46Hadaka stay in local file system when creating an archive
00:36:02HadakaGNU tar 1.13.25
00:36:41Zagorright. i'm simply blind :-)
00:37:08elinenbeI see that.
00:38:19elinenbehas anyone here used GNU Parted?
00:38:58elinenbeit seems more of a hassle then it is worth.
00:38:59HadakaI have
00:39:12Hadakawhy? what would you use it for?
00:39:15***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:39:24elinenberesizing a partition
00:40:13Hadakawell it works - I usually resize the filesystem first and then just change the partition size manually
00:40:23elinenbeit is either use that, or format a new drive they way I want it, tar everything up, and then untar
00:41:43Hadakaew, I never use that
00:42:05Hadakatarring everything up and then untarring seems like such a hack :)
00:44:09elinenbeeverything in this case is either a hack or some fancy pancy program...
00:48:05PsycoXulhow about 'cp -a'
00:48:39Zagorbed time
00:48:40 Quit Zagor ("Client Exiting")
00:49:48elinenbecp -a will not save ownership
01:05:44 Nick tot|away is now known as TotMacher (
01:09:42elinenbelater all.
01:09:58 Part elinenbe
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01:58:09NJoinhardeep [0] (
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02:08:01 Part telliott
02:10:11 Quit TotMacher ()
02:25:28 Quit hardeep ("Leaving")
02:39:18***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:49:04 Nick edx is now known as edx|sleep (
03:33:16 Nick seb-away is now known as _seb_ (user@
03:42:21 Join mecraw [0] (~mecraw@dnvr-dsl-gw34-poola245.DNVR.USWEST.NET)
03:45:03 Quit edx|sleep (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
04:39:21***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
04:47:41 Nick _seb_ is now known as seb-sleep (user@
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05:32:21 Quit mecraw (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
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06:39:22***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
08:00:42 Join LinusN [0] (
08:11:37 Join Zagor [0] (
08:22:32 Join Bagder [0] (
08:22:42Zagoryo bro
08:22:45Bagderhey ho
08:22:55Bagdertried the text reader yet? ;-)
08:23:03Bagderkinda cool
08:23:16Zagoryeah, i've heard nice things about it
08:23:33Bagderneeds a word wrap option though to be REALLY cool
08:23:48Zagorah, it doesn't wrap? ok
08:24:02PsycoXulthe key's are horrid on the player
08:24:26PsycoXuland it's not very good for reading books
08:24:45adi|homeif you are trying to read a book on your mp3 player you need to be LART'ed
08:25:09PsycoXulwell i'm not trying to read a book on my mp3 player
08:25:29PsycoXuli'm trying to read a book on my pocket-sized 20G harddrive with display and music
08:25:47LinusNintegrated music! wow!
08:26:42PsycoXuli've always thought of the archos as more of a low-power high-storage pocket computer than an mp3 player
08:30:14Zagorhmm, it displays one line too few
08:31:05Zagorguh, it takes statusbar into account but then uses the whole screen anyway :-)
08:31:30BagderI did the margin thing there
08:31:42Zagori think it should use the whole screen
08:31:47BagderI agree
08:31:52Zagorme fix
08:31:53LinusNi don't
08:32:13ZagorLinusN: seriously?
08:32:22Bagderit can't have a scrollbar anyway
08:32:30LinusNi want an HTML viewer
08:32:35*Bagder smacks LinusN
08:32:36ZagorBagder: why not?
08:32:57LinusNZagor: the file size isn't known
08:32:58BagderZagor: uh, no, it can
08:33:04Bagderit could be
08:33:15Zagorit would be good to have one
08:33:25Zagoradding OFF as exit key
08:33:26LinusNnumber of lines?
08:33:39Bagderah, right
08:33:47ZagorLinusN: umm, right. i won't add that right away ;-)
08:37:10LinusNwhat do you guys think about committing (post-1.4) an experimental recording UI for people to try and comment on?
08:37:56PsycoXulwhat about playlist building/navigation
08:38:02LinusNwith visual info about how the recording progresses, when it starts/stops recording and so on
08:39:26***No seen item changed, no save performed.
08:39:59LinusNbtw, what do we really want in the 'rockbox info' screen?
08:40:27LinusNi think the buffer size is meaningless to users
08:40:37LinusNunless it shows live buffer fill status
08:40:46 Join mem_ [0] (
08:41:00BagderI think the buffer size is cool info ;-)
08:41:35LinusNusers confuse that with "free buffer space"
08:41:51Bagderbut then, users confuse most things ;-)
08:42:11LinusNand they also think that the battery percentage is some kind of intelligent info about remaining time
08:42:56LinusNwhy are all those .-files in my apps/ dir?
08:43:26Bagderisn't it?
08:43:27LinusNemacs? why?
08:43:44LinusN.#settings-menu.c.1.61, sorry
08:45:47HesThink CVS makes those
08:45:57Heswhen you have conflicts or something
08:46:26Hes(good morning)
08:46:41LinusNyeah, emacs makes #filename# files
08:46:46Bagdermorning hes
08:46:52LinusNnot .#filename.version files
08:46:58LinusNmorning Hes
08:47:00bobTHCgood morning!
08:47:17Bagderemacs also does system.c.~1.16.~ files
08:47:28Bagderif some weird option is enabled
08:47:42LinusNno tilde in my names
08:47:54Bagderno, this is a different name
08:47:58BagderI have your kind too
08:48:24PsycoXulman cvs
08:48:26LinusNmaybe it is when emacs wants to reload the buffer (changed on disk)?
08:48:29PsycoXul/C file
08:49:19LinusNi see now
08:51:49LinusNdaily report from ArchosJukebox6000:
08:51:52LinusNon a side note, ROCKBOX
08:51:52LinusNRULES!!!!!!!!!!!!! THANK YOU, for all you guys have done and even
08:51:52LinusNif you all stopped now , this is a fantastic change from the
08:51:52DBUGEnqueued KICK LinusN
08:51:52LinusNoriginal firmware and i would not ever go back,THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!
08:53:05LinusNmakes me less humble every day :-)
09:14:53bobTHCwhat u think about a french translation for the faq ?
09:15:40BagderbobTHC: not a bad idea, but a lot of work for the translator
09:15:58bobTHConly the genral faq for the moment....
09:16:40bobTHCand for the work, don't worry
09:17:16LinusNare french people really that bad at reading english?
09:20:37adi|homebah.. the french are only good at things like "We surrender." and "No Fair! You went through Belguim!"
09:22:53PsycoXuloh btw
09:23:03PsycoXuli've got some 10-second tracks
09:23:21PsycoXulset up so there's 3 in a dir, and playlists with 1 per playlist
09:24:02PsycoXulif i play the 3 in the dir, they'll go 1, 2, 3, 1, then instead of playnig 2 again the screen goes blank and it does nothing till i press back/forward or browse or whatever
09:24:19PsycoXuland if i play the playlists they only play the track twice before doing the same
09:24:25BagderI think I know why
09:25:03bobTHCfrench are used to ask too much question when docs are in english...
09:26:08BagderPsycoXul: how big are those 3 files?
09:26:56Bagderall together?
09:27:06PsycoXulno, 322791 bytes each
09:28:28Bagderso 5 of them fits in the buffer
09:29:24BagderLinusN: does the first playlist_peek() use steps == 0 ?
09:29:27bobTHCwhat the exact purpose of ?
09:29:41BagderbobTHC: it converts the text faq to the html one you see on the site
09:29:50LinusNBagder: it should
09:30:07bobTHCfaq are specialy formated ?
09:30:07Bagderright, so that's why the 5th doesn't get played
09:30:17BagderbobTHC: yes, it is
09:31:11LinusNbut why does the screen go blank?
09:31:17BagderI don't know
09:31:18LinusNit should say "end of list"
09:32:42bobTHChave a "how to" for faq writing ?
09:33:09BagderbobTHC: use the same format as the already existing faq :-)
09:33:39Bagderit's basicly the A and the Q lines that need to look as they do in there
09:42:50bobTHCwhere is faq.raw ?
09:47:12 Nick mem_ is now known as mem_away (
09:55:51 Nick edx|sleep is now known as edx (
10:05:03CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
10:05:03*Bagder starts writing on a TECH docs
10:06:32 Quit PiotR ("My damn controlling terminal disappeared!")
10:07:13 Join PiotR [0] (
10:11:41 Nick mbr|gone is now known as mbr (
10:18:50 Join pyvasene [0] (
10:20:36Bagderdocs/TECH added
10:20:38Bagdercheck it out
10:20:40Bagderfill in
10:23:11edxBagder: looks great :)
10:26:13Zagorreally good tech overview
10:26:39BagderI left some "..." where more text is needed
10:33:29Zagorremind me again why we want to filter out button release events
10:33:39*Zagor is annoyed again
10:35:47LinusNunnecessary filling of the button queue?
10:36:40Zagorif that's all, it's not worth the hassle
10:36:46LinusNunwanted advance of time when the loop uses get_button_w_tmo()?
10:36:50LinusNlike tetris
10:37:06LinusNwe can fix all that
10:37:57Zagori think so too. i'm getting annoyed at having to change those release and repeat masks every time I add some key somewhere.
10:38:30Bagderhey Schnueff
10:38:34Schnueffit's me
10:39:29***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
10:39:45SchnueffBagder: will fix the patch this day
10:50:47Bagdernow why did we get it so unstable all of a sudden?
10:51:13Zagorgood question
10:51:14 Join TotMacher [0] (
10:53:24LinusNi am on the case
10:54:08Schnueffthe patch? don't remember exactly, but it was the day after i posted it
10:54:32Schnueff-> idle-poweroff settings were added then and many other things
10:58:37LinusNunicode-munge crashes
10:59:24LinusNword compares on odd address
11:00:13Bagderwe should add a note to TECH about things like that
11:00:33BagderI guess
11:02:46LinusNwhy on earth do we call unicode_munge on the TRCK tag????
11:02:58LinusNisn't that binary?
11:03:49LinusNi wish could coma back up
11:04:07LinusNWOW! it has!
11:04:30BagderThe 'Track number/Position in set' frame is a numeric string
11:04:33Bagdercontaining the order number of the audio-file on its original
11:04:37Bagder recording. This may be extended with a "/" character and a numeric
11:04:40Bagder string containing the total numer of tracks/elements on the original
11:04:43Bagder recording. E.g. "4/9".
11:05:09BagderI doubt that can be unicode
11:06:45LinusNstill, the tag looks malformed...
11:29:19LinusNthe TRCK tag is bad
11:30:07LinusNthe string two bytes long, _beginning_ with the null termination! :-)
11:30:51LinusNor maybe i am just a silly person
11:31:12LinusNcan't be
11:39:15 Nick edx is now known as edx|dentist (
11:41:10LinusNhow silly
11:41:31LinusNthe TRCK tag is malformed in the file i got for debugging
11:42:03LinusNit contains a "numeric string", which can only be ISO8859-1
11:42:39LinusNstill, it begins with the 0x00 byte, signalling the ISO8859-1 encoding
11:43:05LinusNwhich should only be there if the string allows different encodings
11:43:14Hadakawell that shouldn't still crash things, should it? ;)
11:43:19LinusNwhich it doesn't, since it is a numeric string
11:43:24LinusNHadaka: of course not
11:43:37LinusNour unicode support bugs
11:44:38LinusNand silly as it is, the ID3 spec says that strings that support different encodings should begin with an encoding type byte (0 for iso, 1 for unicode)
11:44:50Hadakaunicode or utf-8 or utf-16 or what?
11:44:54LinusNwhich results in the string beginning at an odd offset
11:45:31LinusNAll Unicode strings [UNICODE] use
11:45:31LinusN 16-bit unicode 2.0 (ISO/IEC 10646-1:1993, UCS-2)
11:45:54HadakaOh, UCS-2? is that from the ID3v2 spec?
11:47:07Bagderit is
11:47:57HadakaI can't find such encoding there - only UTF-16, UTF-16BE and UTF-8
11:48:01 Quit Zagor (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
11:48:54Bagder" WARNING: archos20021001.ajz RB build"
11:48:59Bagderon funmp3players
11:49:09 Join Zagor [0] (
11:49:48HadakaHmm still no luck in finding UCS-2 anywhere on the specs - though it would be quite broken if it had
11:50:04Schnueffisnt that just the character set not the encoding?
11:50:12BagderI have the 2.3.0 spec
11:50:20Bagderit says that piece Linus quoted above
11:50:41Hadakaoh, I checked the 2.4.0
11:50:49HadakaUCS-2 is encoding
11:50:56HadakaISO-10646 is the character set
11:51:01Hadakabut using UCS-2 is quite broken
11:51:14Bagderso they changed that from 2.3.0 to 2.4.0 ?
11:51:23Hadakaapparently, lemme go see 2.3.0
11:51:32Hadakagood thing if they did
11:51:49Bagderright, but that leaves us in a weird position
11:52:04BagderI dislike the id3v2 more and more
11:52:18Hadakaouchie - 2.3.0 even _required_ the byte order mark
11:53:00Bagderwe need a rolo-description on the site
11:53:02Hadakado you support ISO-10646 properly anywhere?
11:53:29BagderHadaka: not really, but we suck out the ascii stuff and ignore the rest
11:53:41Hadakabut yes, I agree, id3v2 is beginning to be quite horrible
11:53:45Bagderin a recent id3 patch
11:53:54Hadakaoh if you ignore all the high characters
11:54:01LinusNHadaka: the byte order mark isn't the problem
11:54:02Hadakathen it doesn't matter if it's UCS-2 or UTF-16
11:54:04Hadakait looks the same
11:54:17HadakaLinusN: yes I know - byte order mark just generally is a problem :)
11:54:41Hadakado you leave a blank space or just strip it btw?
11:55:01HadakaI mean the high characters
11:55:20Bagderit strips it
11:55:35Bagderits only used for id3 tag reading
11:55:48LinusNthe stripping isn't very well done
11:56:24Hadakawell yes - the difference between ucs-2 and utf-16 is that utf-16 has surrogate pairs which are made from two two-byte characters - but if you strip all the high characters anyway, it doesn't matter
11:56:27LinusNit leaves the whole unicode char in the string if it is >0xff
11:57:13LinusNno, it just skips it
11:57:53Hadakayes well then the UCS-2 vs UTF-16 distinction doesn't touch you at all
11:58:37Bagderat least not until we try to use those characters
11:58:51Hadakait's so nasty that everybody almost has to support 2.2.0, 2.3.0 and 2.4.0 on ID3v2 tag reading :(
11:59:22Hadakawell when you try to use them, you'll need a _real_ parser anyway, so then it still is no problem
11:59:34 Part bobTHC
11:59:41Hadakasince even if you handle surrogate pairs correctly, you have the combining and doublewidth characters to deal with
12:00:00Bagderthe authors of the id3v2 spec really don't think very much before they produced them
12:00:17Bagderthey change all sorts of things between the versions
12:00:33Hadakawell, all of the changes have been important one's IMHO
12:00:36LinusNand they are not very low-end friendly
12:00:43Hadakajust that they made stupid choices in the past
12:00:56Bagderthey need to fix their previous mistakes
12:06:31 Quit mem_away (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
12:07:07 Join mem_away [0] (
12:13:35Hadakathe one thing which I think is really good in ID3v2 is the amount of standardized fields they have collected there
12:13:49HadakaI'd something as good in that respect would be for ogg as well
12:13:56HadakaI'd hope, even
12:14:26Hadakabut the actual binary format is - somewhat because what it is and somewhat because of the constant changes - quite a horrible thing to try and parse
12:14:30LinusNthe list of standardized fields is perhaps the think i dislike the most about the ID3V2 spec
12:14:50LinusNthat list shouldn't be there at all
12:14:59LinusNit should be in a separate spec
12:15:11LinusNone for the format, and one for the tags
12:15:15Hadakawell yes
12:15:22Hadakaso you could use the tags elsewhere as well
12:15:40Hadakabut the format and the tag list _are_ separate in 2.4.0
12:15:47LinusNit's a major pain having to update the id3v2 spec just to add new tags
12:15:57LinusNHadaka: aha
12:16:09Hadakaand it seems that _all_ T-tags do have the encoding specifier
12:16:45Hadakathough I don't think there still can be an update to the tag list without touching the spec - but atleast they are in separate files
12:17:28LinusNif tags can't be added without touching the spec, well then the spec sucks
12:19:03Hadakaone should perhaps create a separate tag specification - with an XML representation - and then means to generate ID3v2 tags from it and OGG Vorbis tags
12:32:27SchnueffBagder: patch uploaded
12:39:33***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
12:42:23*Schnueff .. work
12:43:10Bagderoh how I dislike autoconf hacking
12:44:19LinusNIt's not easy to write a simple hack to parse those tags
12:45:07LinusNi'll have to go for a full version-aware, unicode-aware parser
12:45:20HadakaI'm afraid so
12:45:45LinusNit'll take a few minutes...
12:46:11Hadakathe library that comes with madplay is the best of libraries for ID3v2 parsing
12:46:35LinusNand probable weighs in at 100Kb...
12:46:44Hadakalemme see
12:46:53Hadakaoh don't try to use libid3
12:46:54LinusNuses dynamic memory, and assumes little-endian...
12:46:59Hadakathat's horrible :)
12:47:14Bagderlibid3 is a joke
12:47:39Hadakajust a sec, seeing how much would this take
12:47:48Bagderwc -l ../id3lib-3.8.0pre2.1/src/*.cpp
12:47:52Bagder10549 total
12:48:17Hadaka$ wc -l libid3tag/*.c
12:48:19Hadaka 5650 total
12:49:47Hadaka56K /usr/lib/
12:50:01Hadakaso it does look like it's a bit heavy
12:50:09 Nick mem_away is now known as mem (
12:50:31Hadakabut it has utf8 parsing, utf16 parsing, ucs4 parsing
12:50:38Hadakaiso-8859-1 parsing
12:51:42Hadakait does use malloc - but not that much
12:52:01Hadakabut the character set parsing seems to use dynamic memory
12:53:40Hadakathough I must say that id3 tag parsing is a small occurence that I'm willing to let eat my mp3 buffer for a while - but I take it you don't support dynamic memory at all?
12:54:28Hadakaoh well
12:54:39Hadaka ID3 tag manipulation library with full support for reading ID3v1, ID3v1.1,
12:54:39Hadaka ID3v2.2, ID3v2.3, and ID3v2.4 tags, as well as support for writing ID3v1,
12:54:40Hadaka ID3v1.1, and ID3v2.4 tags.
12:55:10LinusNIf some scientist could come up with a good way of sharing memory between the MP3 thread and the dynamic memory system, i'm all ears
12:55:38BagderSchnueff: applied nicely
12:57:10Hadakahow does the MP3 thread use it's buffer?
12:57:31LinusNit's a large ring buffer
12:57:41LinusNFrom the ID3V2.4 spec:
12:57:44LinusN4.17. Popularimeter
12:57:44LinusN The purpose of this frame is to specify how good an audio file is.
12:57:45Hadakahow big are the buffers?
12:58:26LinusNHadaka: buffer, not buffers
12:58:27Hadakano I mean the ring buffer? is it written continuously or does it have blocks of sorts?
12:58:57LinusNa ring buffer with read/write indices
12:59:40LinusNit could easily be divided into blocks
13:00:05LinusNbut then the file reads would be a pain, togehter with the fast forward/rewind
13:00:26Hadakaso it could give memory downward from the write index, if it had a way of skipping that memory on future reads and writes
13:00:43HadakaI'm thinking someone else has already run into this problem
13:01:34LinusNHadaka: yes, the inventor of the fast CPU with an MMU
13:01:58LinusNBagder: why is the backlight-always-on patch only for the recorders?
13:02:31BagderI didn't write it
13:02:52LinusNbut you applied it, thus you read the code, deciding it was OK
13:03:08Bagderbut I don't analyze all underlying reasons
13:03:12Bagderthey can be fixed
13:03:30LinusNSchnueff: you there?
13:03:51LinusNit was Schnueff, wasn't it?
13:04:52 Quit adi|home ("Client Exiting")
13:07:07HadakaI wonder
13:07:19Hadakawould it be possible to implement a normal pagecache system on the rockbox?
13:07:37LinusNyes, but without MMU
13:09:03Hadakawell, it's been done before, hasn't it?
13:09:09BagderI remove the CHARGER_CTRL dependencies
13:09:22LinusNbut making the disk I/O and the MP3 buffering complex to satisfy lazy programmers is not what i want to spend my time on
13:09:58Hadakalazy programmers? how else are you going to get dynamic memory? only allow operations when an MP3 is not playing
13:10:47LinusNlazy programmers think dynamic memory is necessary
13:11:27Bagderwell, non-lazy programmers like malloc too ;-)
13:11:41LinusNor should i say "spoiled programmers"?
13:12:06Hadakawell the way I see it - is that you are wasting memory on static buffers that are not used?
13:12:11LinusNsure, dynamic memory would be nice, but then we'll have to do some sacrifices
13:12:54LinusNlike a very complex mp3 buffer handling
13:13:30Hadakavery complex? you just have a ring-buffer of pages which you index instead of just indexes into the whole buffer
13:13:30LinusNstill, if someone found a good way of hangling it, i'm all ears
13:13:51Hadakapages being some arbitrary size
13:14:08LinusNHadaka: i'm not trying to be rude, but Show Me The Code
13:14:51LinusNit *is* possible to divide the mp3 buffer into pages
13:15:21LinusNhowever, it's not as easy as one would wish
13:15:23Hadakaand new pages are linked to the list when they are freed from the dynamic allocator and pages are taken from the reading end when needed
13:15:26Hadakawell yes
13:15:28Hadakamy point basically is that someone _has_ already coded this - so examples should not be hard to find
13:16:10LinusNHadaka: still, what if the mp3 thread has already allocated all available memory when some other task wants to allocate some?
13:16:28LinusNwait until some music has played?
13:16:36LinusNand if it is paused?
13:17:02Hadakathe mp3 thread manages the ring buffer - it _knows_ which buffers it can release and which it can't
13:17:12Zagorsometimes none
13:17:22Hadakapages are asked from the mp3 thread - and pages are given back to it
13:17:35LinusNHadaka: so the mp3 thread should save some memory for other threads?
13:17:36Hadakawhy would it be none? even if you have read new data, you can scrap that?
13:18:03Hadakano need to save - just drop the buffers and read them again when needed
13:18:13ZagorHadaka: immediately after filling the buffer, no buffers are free
13:18:20LinusNan interesting idea
13:18:20Zagorimagine the user pausing then
13:18:30Hadakayou can drop any buffers from there
13:18:37Hadakabut most likely you want to drop those that are read last
13:18:44LinusNZagor: he means that unplayed data can be unloaded again
13:18:57Hadakaand there even exists strategies on how to drop pages from a ring-buffer of a sequential-read device
13:18:58Bagderright, if suffieciently far away in time
13:19:17Zagorshow me a reason, and i'll consider it
13:19:18Hadakadepending how fast the seek speed of the device is backwards and so on
13:19:39Hadakawell this is academic - mostly - if you don't need it, don't code it
13:19:57Hadakabut for example the id3v2 parsing is bound to require more memory during parsing than after it
13:20:09LinusNZagor: the reason is of course to not waste memory on static buffers
13:20:44Zagorinstead wasting it on very complex code?
13:20:48Hadakaanyway - all I'm saying here that this seems possible simply enough - and people have already written these implementations - whether there's point to actually implement in rockbox is another matter entirely
13:21:47ZagorHadaka: agreed. it's possible, but I still haven't heard a reason why we'd need it
13:22:07Hadakawell I think the spreadsheet software is going to want that :)
13:23:19Hadakayou are making a better replacement for the archos firmware - and that's fine and good
13:23:44LinusNLet's hope they don't make a spreadsheet app
13:24:16Hadakabut a lot of that code can be used also for implementing for example a true scoring and mood sensitive jukebox with extensive information about each mp3 and genre linkings between them and all that
13:24:39Hadakaand the needs for such a problem are different
13:25:58Hadakaso _I_ am spending my brain cycles on how to implement dynamic memory management easily and cleanly
13:26:11Hadakawhether you want it or not is still just another story
13:27:23Zagorbostream now offers 4-8 Mbit ADSL! coolio!
13:27:28Bagderno VDSL
13:27:34Zagorah, right
13:27:58Bagdernot bad really
13:28:06LinusNme want!!!!!!!
13:28:11Zagori think 750 for 4Mbit is a good deal. me wants.
13:29:03BagderI bet they need to replace the hardware for that
13:29:55SchnueffLinusN: now i'm here
13:31:03LinusNI just wondered why the backlight patch only applied to the Recorder models
13:31:28Schnueffhm, it applies to those which have CHARGE_CTRL, doesnt it?
13:31:48LinusNyes, and why only those?
13:32:06Bagderthe answer is no, it works for the others too
13:32:06LinusN(only recorders have CHARGE_CTRL)
13:32:20Schnueffi thought charger_inserted() needs CHARGE_CTRL
13:32:29LinusNno it doesn't
13:32:33Schnueffthats good
13:32:36BagderI've already fixed it
13:32:37LinusNall units can see if a charger is attached
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13:32:52DBUGEnqueued KICK LinusN|lunch
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13:35:13*mem is leaving the office to gp and get the Recorder
13:35:35Bagderwooo ;-)
13:35:37memCU all in a hour
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13:36:02SchnueffBagder: don't forget to close feature request 603685 :)
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13:52:15DBUGEnqueued KICK LinusN
13:52:33Schnuefffast food
13:55:34LinusNSchnueff: real name?
13:56:03bobTHC hehe
13:56:35LinusNfor the credits
13:56:42SchnueffMark Hillebrand, doesn't it appear somewhere
13:56:56Schnueffcredits for such a tiny patch, wow
13:57:04LinusNfair is fair
13:57:25Schnueffas u like
13:57:33Schnueffprobably won't stop coding anyway :)
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14:12:05*edx was listening to rockbox while he was operated :)
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14:33:17*mem is back, with a Recorder...
14:37:49memI heard something the other day, I think it was Bagder that wondered who would be the first person to not run Archos Jukebox just Rockbox. I'm thinking if I should be the first one that only runs Rockbox
14:38:35LinusNgood luck, remember to have the charger or USB attached when you start it
14:38:46LinusNso that you don't run the archos fw by mistake :-)
14:39:03memokay. I guess I have to charge it any way
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14:55:38elinenbeor good afternoon (depending on location)
14:56:12elinenbeLinusN: how is recording progressing? record to RAM yet?
14:59:07memWhat Linux 2.2.x modules do I have to have to access the Recorder?
14:59:30memAnd how do I mount the disk? Some special /dev files?
14:59:48Hadakayou need USB support and USB-storage support and SCSI support
14:59:57Hadakait will show up as a SCSI drive
15:00:04Hadakanote that I have never done this on a 2.2 kernel
15:00:18LinusNelinenbe: has worked for ages :-)
15:00:23memI have the modules usb-storage, uhci, usbcore loaded
15:00:43elinenbeLinusN: you are too cocky
15:01:09elinenbeLinusN: do you know the status on disk writing then?
15:01:21LinusNnope, zagor's business
15:01:34LinusNand the focus is on 1.4 atm
15:01:42memHadaka: What SCSI module do I need?
15:02:11elinenbeLinusN: well, I know there is a feature freeze, but how is "Mr. Cocky's" song queuing coming?
15:03:09Hadakamem: just general SCSI support
15:03:19HadakaUSB-storage previous stuff
15:03:40LinusNoh, his queue code is not done
15:04:18elinenbehehe ;)
15:04:42memHadaka: dmesg showed me the diskname sda, just as simple as that. But it says 'sda:scsidisk I/O error: dev 08:00, sector 0, unable to read partition table'
15:05:53*mem hasn't even opened the Install guide yet....
15:06:54LinusNdid you mount /dev/sda1?
15:08:03LinusNmem: 2.2.x? Seriously?
15:08:08memLinusN: No, dmesg says 'unable to read partition table' and mount says 'mount /dev/sda1 is not a valid block device'
15:08:26memLinusN: Yes... Haven't had the time to upgrade...
15:08:40memLinusN: 2.2.19pre17
15:08:50LinusNwow, ancient stuff
15:09:14memDo I have to format the disk or should I try it on my Widows machine first?
15:09:38LinusNhmmm, it should be formatted already
15:09:43LinusNwith some demo songs on it
15:10:03memmaybe I have to start it up with Archos firmware anyway...
15:10:20LinusNdid you mount it with -t vfat?
15:10:43memLinusN: No, but that gives the same error message
15:10:48LinusNhey, try to mount /dev/sda
15:10:56LinusNit migh be partitionless
15:10:59memsame error
15:11:31LinusNusb1 or 2?
15:11:41memdmesg says;
15:12:11Hadakawell it should be /dev/sda1 - what does it say if you say "cfdisk /dev/sda"?
15:12:54LinusNHadaka: it would be /dev/sda if it was partitionless, wouldn't it?
15:13:05memFATAL ERROR: Cannot open disk drive
15:13:13LinusNthat applies to pccard, at least
15:13:31*mem should try the Widows machine
15:15:45memWidows installing drivers, /me waiting
15:18:27HadakaLinusN: yes
15:25:14memMy Win2000 machine found the disk withe the demo songs. I guess that I have to upgrade my Linux box...
15:25:48*mem chould have a cup of coffee, CU in 15
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15:25:56Hadaka2.4.19 is goodness
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15:44:21elinenbenew mp3 jukebox: nomad zen (
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15:56:55elinenbeahhh... someone her must be able to help me.
15:57:15elinenbecan you just make a partition bigger by adjusting it end boundry in fdisk?
15:57:49Hadakawell yes and no
15:57:49Hadakathe partition is bigger after that
15:57:49Hadakabut you must resize the filesystem as well if you want to use the extra space
15:59:03elinenbehow can I do that?
15:59:19elinenbeI have my root partition
15:59:21Hadakawell that depends on the filesystem you have on the partition
15:59:45elinenbeand then an extended partition with 3 partitions in there and then 20 gigs of unpartitioned space
15:59:46Hadakaresizing a live filesystem is always trickier than resizing an unmounted one
15:59:59elinenbeI want to delete the extended partition
16:00:09elinenbeand then extend the root to fill the disk.
16:00:30Hadakathen you either boot with a boot floppy - or resize the live partition
16:00:43Hadakayou have nothing you want to save on the extended partition?
16:00:58elinenbeI like resizing live stuff.
16:01:43Hadakawell then just remove the extended - and resize the root partition - write the partition table - and reboot
16:01:49Hadakaif it still boots, everything went fine
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16:02:02Hadakaand then you can resize the filesystem on the root partition to fill the whole disk
16:02:22elinenbe if it still boots, everything went fine (I like this line)
16:02:50Hadakaresizing a partition means deleting it and creating it bigger
16:02:59elinenbeyou should have written it "If it doesn't boot you are shit out of luck"
16:03:04Hadakaso be careful :)
16:03:29Hadakais the root partition ext2?
16:03:52elinenbeID 83
16:04:10Hadakawell then after you have recreated the partition bigger and rebooted
16:04:19Hadakayou can use ext2resize to resize it to fill the disk
16:04:30Hadakathat _should_ work on a live partition :)
16:04:33elinenbeI'll try that out
16:04:48elinenbeI'll let you know how it went
16:05:04HadakaI've done it several times - and never lost data - so :)
16:06:02elinenbehopefully I am as lucky
16:06:18elinenbethe data is backed up, so it should not be that bad :/
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16:10:39elinenbeBagder: why the booo?
16:10:45Bagderno reason really
16:10:54Bagderjust thought I'd jump in and scare you ;-)
16:10:58Hadakaeek :)
16:11:02elinenbewell, I am on the floor now.
16:11:12elinenbeI thought you were the ghost of Bagder for a minute
16:11:12*Bagder giggles
16:11:49elinenbeI ran out of my cubicle in fright. my co-workers are wondering what is going on.
16:11:52elinenbethanks alot!
16:12:14Bagderjust show them to me and I'll have a word with them ;-)
16:14:29elinenbewhat? "booo"
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16:14:43Bagderyes, won't that be enough?
16:17:28elinenbewhat ever happened to repeat on/off?
16:17:48Bagderqualsaruk has been quite silent about that
16:17:53elinenbeI think that is WAY overrated anyway.
16:19:00elinenbeand where is my "Swedish Chef" translation?
16:19:19mecrawbork bork
16:19:44Bagderyou must've forgotten to post it on the patch tracker ;-)
16:19:51elinenbeI think our goal should be all the google languages
16:20:15Bagderyeah, the asian ones are fun
16:20:21Bagderall the memory will be used for the font
16:20:29elinenbewell, that is what may be necessary
16:21:48Hadakabah, just implement swapping :)
16:22:10Bagdernah, on-demand loading every glyph from disk
16:22:33elinenbeHadaka: that is what may be necessary for loading multiple folders..
16:22:40elinenbecreate a temporary playlist on the disk
16:22:53elinenbeand then load with standard routines :)
16:23:01Hadakaoof but I hafta flee .)
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16:32:29*mem would like to install Rockbox (binary version), which one should I download? Daily build from noon or what?
16:33:03Bagderget the 20010930 one
16:33:31Bagderhm yellow build
16:34:03memBut 20020930 wasn't yellow, or?
16:34:30Bagderdoesn't matter, yellow is only warning(s)
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16:35:00quelsaruki hate work
16:37:13mecrawthen don't do i
16:37:14Bagdermem: you can get the latest "bleeding edge" one as well, if you're that kind of guy ;-)
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16:39:59*mem installed 20020930 and booted that one. NEVER started Jukebox at all!!!!
16:40:13Bagderyou're my hero ;-)
16:40:20elinenbequelsaruk: are you working on the repeat on/off?
16:40:42memBagder: Didn't you ask who should be the first one to run Rockbox at first boot?
16:41:01Bagderyou won
16:41:06*Bagder bows before mem
16:41:41elinenbemem: but bt not booting to the Archos firmware you are really missing out
16:41:49elinenbemem: ... on shit!
16:42:54quelsarukelinenbe: just when work leave me some free time, but yes i'm working on it. As we say in my country, slowly but without pause
16:43:29Bagderwent greent again
16:44:32*mem noticed that I have to have the Recorder switched on with Rockbox before applying the charger cable, otherwise I get Jukebox firmware
16:45:28Bagderyou just have to keep the ON button pressed a little longer when the charger is connected
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16:46:28elinenbeBadger: that should be in the manual (you just have to keep the ON button pressed a little longer when the charger is connected)
16:46:31*mem is now installing two CDs full of mp3s
16:46:55memelinenbe: I haven't read the manual...
16:47:07elinenbemem: I don't think it will help too much!
16:47:12Bagderme neither
16:47:14memelinenbe: Not the Jukebox manual or Rockbox manual...
16:49:00memNext thing would be an upgrade of my Linux systems and after that install the development environment
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17:10:04elinenbeHadaka: everything works fine.
17:10:11elinenbeHadaka: partitions are nice and tight
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18:25:23Bagdergee you talk a lot while I'm gone :-P
18:26:46memyes we do...
18:32:50elinenbemaybe we do... maybe we don't
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18:53:39Bagderopenoffice rocks
18:54:37Hadakaelinenbe: cool
18:55:27datazoneno it doesnt
18:55:33datazoneits big and klunky
18:56:45elinenbeKOffice rocks.
18:58:13datazoneas if
19:00:04 Nick Zagor|out is now known as Zagor (
19:00:28ZagorBagder: i don't think your last id3 fix was quite correct?
19:00:49Zagoror... i'll check the code before I talk :-)
19:00:49Bagderit sure wasn't correct before
19:02:54BagderI was quite impressed that gcc warned on those lines
19:04:47Zagorah, string is a **. ok, i'm synced :-)
19:08:00*Bagder was scared for the code police there for a moment
19:09:45elinenbeok −− I asked this yesterday, but where are the bootlogs kept in linux?
19:09:59Bagder /var/log/dmesg
19:10:19Bagderquel|work: you here?
19:10:22quel|workseems the big brother has some problems with code police ;)
19:10:29quel|workjust for 1 minute
19:10:31Bagderdon't we all? ;-)
19:10:51Bagderquel|work: it would be good if you would post whatever you've done on the repeat issue to the list or something
19:11:08Bagderit's time to get it done
19:11:13quel|worki'd rather pay some beers to my brother than fear code police :)
19:11:16quel|worki know
19:11:31quel|worki'll try to do it tomorrow :)
19:11:46quel|workif the boss is a bit more permissive
19:11:52quel|worksee you!
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19:27:18*Bagder tries the puzzle game
19:28:48*Bagder doesn't understand it ;-)
19:32:31Zagoris it committed yet?
19:33:33Zagordo you understand Matt OReilly's idea?
19:34:31Zagorok, good then we're two. :-) i'll respond.
19:34:51BagderI mean, it sounds as if it just repeats the wishes to have things configurable
19:35:09Bagdercan you get the backlight on when charging to work?
19:40:15Bagderkinda neat game
19:40:21Bagdera bit in the sokoban spirit
19:40:25Zagori haven
19:40:29Zagor't tried that yet
19:40:38BagderI did now when gaming
19:40:43Bagderand it doesn't work
19:43:58DjangoGood evening.
19:44:20DjangoQuestion: why is "repeat" always on?
19:44:37Bagderanswer: because we haven't made it possible to change that
19:45:05DjangoOk. Are there any pitfalls and can I just turn it off?
19:45:23Bagderit is slight more involved than it might sound
19:45:46Bagdersince the mpeg data is loaded into the buffer long before we hear it
19:46:14DjangoAt time I want to play just one song, then the RB should be quiet. "Just one ping, Vassili" :-)
19:46:42Bagderbut we don't code for that single occation
19:46:48Bagderwe need a complete solution
19:47:46DjangoOk. Let's say playing should stop at the end of the plalist. Agree?
19:48:18Bagderif repeat is off, yes
19:48:48DjangoGreat! Then I just have to make sure there is only the one song I want on the plalist.
19:49:11Django(Seems my yyyyyyy is stuck?)
19:49:13Bagderwhen we don't repeat, you won't need that work-around
19:49:44DjangoHow do you currently get just one song on the playlist??
19:50:08Bagderadd one song to a playlist, dang, then its one song in the list
19:50:12Bagderit still repeats though
19:50:13Django.. without(?) making an .m3u of course.
19:51:54Bagderwhen we fix the repeat, you won't need to do work-arounds
19:52:03Bagderuntil then, this is not a functional work-around
19:52:51PsycoXulstill doesn't tell us how to play a single track, repeat or not, without either having it in its own dir or making it's own .m3u
19:53:34Bagderhow does the archos fw?
19:53:46Bagderah, it plays on the one you select, right?
19:54:14PsycoXulif you just select it, it'll play through the dir
19:54:24PsycoXulor if you hold on it, it'll add it to the playlist/queue
19:54:28DjangoIf you are in the mood for a test I can show you what I mean.
19:54:28PsycoXulin which case it can be the only one on there
19:54:36Bagderah right
19:54:48Bagderso when we fix that feature, we can do it the same way
19:55:11DjangoPlease check
19:55:14PsycoXulmore or less
19:55:23PsycoXuli don't really like having to hold on each track
19:55:43Bagderso how would you like it done?
19:55:46DjangoThere is a .ajz with a dynamic queue feature.
19:56:00PsycoXuli dunno, on+play to add to playlist?
19:56:17DjangoPLAY works as usual, but
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19:56:29Djangoif you press RIGHT it goes into queue mode.
19:56:52DjangoHave to find a button combo for the player yet.
19:56:53PsycoXuland if it's a dir it could add the whole dir [recurse or not? hmm] on that
19:57:15DjangoNo. That already happens today.
19:57:29PsycoXulno, nothing happens today for playlist building
19:57:44PsycoXulexcept single dir playing
19:57:46DjangoI was talking about the dir.
19:58:00PsycoXuli was talking about adding the dir to the playlist
19:58:04PsycoXulor file
19:58:23DjangoWe can't write files :-(
19:58:39PsycoXulwe will
19:58:51PsycoXulwe can't build playlists untill we do
19:58:56DjangoIf you hit PLAY on a dir the whole dir goes to the playlist today.
19:59:08Bagderyou talk archos now
19:59:17PsycoXulif you hit play on a dir, it goes into the dir... at least on players
19:59:30DjangoSorry, that was not precise.
19:59:53DjangoWhen you play a file all the rest of the dir goes to the playlist, no?
20:00:13PsycoXulthats the only kind of "playlist" building we have right now
20:00:47DjangoIs somebody going to try the file on ?
20:00:53Bagderthe entire dir gets played in fact
20:00:54PsycoXulwhen we get file write support, we'll be able to really build playlists, i.e. select single and multiple things to add to it
20:00:56DjangoOtherwise I'll take it away.
20:01:43BagderDjango: what does it do?
20:01:52Djangodynamic playlist.
20:02:04DjangoPLAY works as usual, but
20:02:11Djangoif you press RIGHT it goes into queue mode.
20:02:21Bagderhow do you solve that?
20:03:04DjangoIf your WPS shows the current playlist number and the playlist size you immediately see what I mean.
20:03:18DjangoMoment ...
20:04:32DjangoCheck the link. there is now playlist.h/.c
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20:05:01DjangoThe playlist structure has a new "bool queue_mode" flag.
20:05:15DjangoPlaylist.c has a new function at the beginning.
20:05:21PsycoXulTotMacher: death maker? or something?
20:05:37PsycoXuli see
20:06:42DjangoTree.c has a simple addition where it calls add_file_to_queue() instead of play_list().
20:06:57Bagderso basicly you keep a queue in memory
20:07:23DjangoYes, I use the existing playlist buffer.
20:07:44DjangoIt was so simply I am afraid that I overlook something.
20:08:12DjangoAh yey, shuffle is deliberately ignored.
20:08:47DjangoShould I spend more time on this?
20:09:01TotMacheris there now a queue mode ?
20:09:11TotMacherwhere i can enqueue files ?
20:09:31DjangoI put it up there for discussion
20:09:40BagderTotMacher: in Django's version
20:09:56DjangoPLAY and RIGHT are now different.
20:09:57TotMacherinclude that feature fast
20:10:18DjangoRIGHT starts a "queue" mode.
20:10:20TotMacherwhy dont you use the same key config like stock firmware ?
20:10:27Bagderwell, doing it "the right way" is not this trivial
20:10:28DjangoAdds on file at a time.
20:10:33TotMacherholding play enqueues a file !
20:11:03DjangoBagder: what did I miss?
20:11:13Bagderthe fact that we can't write files
20:11:20Bagderpeople will cry "resume"
20:11:38Bagdernot your fault of course
20:11:39DjangoWell, actually resume works!
20:11:52Django.. but only if you turn shuffle off.
20:12:05Bagderand what happens to the queue?
20:12:34DjangoResume should learn not to shuffle when queue mode is on.
20:13:00DjangoRight now the queue gets shuffled. so you get the same songs but
20:13:05Djangoin a different sequence.
20:13:32DjangoI think of the queue as the "party" mode.
20:13:42elinenbeI LIKE CANDY!!
20:14:09DjangoIf a party is going on at times you carefully want to select what songs to play and in what order.
20:14:44DjangoIf it's getting late and you play the wrong songs then the party dies :-)
20:14:56elinenbequeue mode will come soon enough.
20:15:18DjangoDifferent people, different priorities :-)
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20:26:35BagderI'm not entirely happy with the puzzle game atm
20:27:06Bagdergotta go
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20:31:50datazoneDjango|away: you could always play "8675309"
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21:55:49DjangoAny button guru around?
21:56:36DjangoHow do I tell a normal button from a button that was held down?
22:22:48PsycoXulthere's button press and button release events
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