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#rockbox log for 2002-10-18

00:00:43langhaarrockercu tomorrow
00:01:53 Nick tot|away is now known as TotMacher (
00:07:58 Quit langhaarrocker (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:17:12 Quit radhard (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:20:12 Quit Jet8810 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:33:29 Join Jet8810 [0] (
00:46:35 Part elinenbe
00:46:44 Join elinenbe [0] (
00:56:30***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:57:25 Quit Jet8810 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:58:15 Quit Zagor ("Client Exiting")
01:07:50 Quit TotMacher ()
01:08:45O7713hmm does the archos tell you when the battery is fully charged?
01:09:23webbieit should ?
01:09:56O7713its charging since like 8 hours or so now, strange
01:43:44 Quit Hadaka (
01:45:34NJoinHadaka [0] (
01:46:27 Join Hadaka_ [0] (
01:46:27 Quit Hadaka (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
01:46:41 Nick Hadaka_ is now known as Hadaka (
02:48:51 Join mecraw [0] (
02:56:34***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
03:36:09 Quit O7713 ()
04:03:19 Join datazone-work [0] (
04:07:08 Join _Snorlax_ [0] (
04:07:16 Quit _Snorlax_ (Client Quit)
04:56:36***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
05:17:27 Quit datazone-work ("I like core dumps")
05:17:50 Nick _seb_ is now known as seb-sleep (
06:04:33 Join edx [0] (
06:23:49 Part elinenbe
06:28:52 Join elinenbe [0] (
06:37:04 Join Hadaka_ [0] (
06:40:08 Quit Hadaka (Broken pipe)
06:40:32 Nick Hadaka_ is now known as Hadaka (
06:44:06 Quit edx ()
06:56:38***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
07:51:58 Join Bagder [241] (
07:52:30Bagderhey ho
07:52:42Mode"#rockbox +o Bagder " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
07:53:00Topic"Rockbox - No Sugar Added." by Bagder (
07:55:16 Join dokewalke [0] (dokewalker@
07:56:03dokewalkeis any one around?
07:57:10dokewalkeI want to help out with this, I have some experice programing but not on this level at all
07:57:17dokewalkethought it would be a good learning experice
07:57:21Bagderoh it is
07:57:32Bagdernad its fun!
07:57:53dokewalkecould you help me out, - how do I get started
07:58:06Bagderyou run windows or linux?
07:58:53dokewalkeboth - but much more comeforetable in windows - I'm tring ot learn linux
07:58:53dokewalkein windows now
07:59:49Bagderok, you have anything against using cygwin?
08:00:13dokewalkeI don't know what that is
08:00:13dokewalkeso no
08:00:41Bagdercygwin is lots of stuff and an emulation layer for running unix-stuff on windows
08:01:57BagderI'm not entirely sure if you're supposed to install the real cygwin package first or just this package
08:02:06Bagder'm a linux person myself
08:02:56dokewalkei've been playing around it in - it works really well with my datastructure class
08:03:20dokewalkeI can sftp and ssh and compile java really easily from the console
08:03:26dokewalkebut I still haven't got my jukebox working on it yet
08:04:21Bagderon linux, you only need to follow this instruction:
08:07:45dokewalkei can follow that web page - so thats the steps for the compiler?
08:08:15Bagderwhen that is setup, you just need to get the sources and build rockbox
08:09:51dokewalkeok - now how do I get linux to see my player?
08:10:06Bagderwhat model is it?
08:10:35dokewalkeJukebox Studio 20
08:10:52Bagderand what linux kernel do you run?
08:12:01dokewalkeumm- redhat 7.2, it that what you want to know?
08:12:09dokewalkeI'm really new to this
08:12:22Bagderno, do "uname -a"
08:12:35Bagderit tells which kernel that runs
08:12:38Bagderkernel version
08:13:00Bagderyou need a driver for the player's USB circuit, the ISD200
08:13:14BagderBjörn's driver is included in kerneln 2.4.8 and later
08:14:07dokewalkeI have to reboot to get into linux
08:14:24dokewalkehow long are you going to be around?
08:14:37Bagdermany hours more
08:14:47dokewalkebe right back
08:14:51 Quit dokewalke ()
08:27:09 Join THE-SA1NT [0] (
08:29:36THE-SA1NTHi. Can someone help me out with the Fujitsu password lock problem? I'm trying ARCHOSUnlock.exe and when it boots up it says 'Kernel Panic: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on 21:02' Any help would be fantastic.
08:31:30BagderI've never tried/used it
08:31:43THE-SA1NTWell damn.
08:34:13 Join merwin [0] (~none@
08:34:23Bagderhey merwin
08:34:38merwinhey bagder... I found an issue that I can take care of :P
08:34:40merwineasy one actually
08:35:03merwinwhen you press "Reset Settings", you get a blank screen :-)
08:35:07merwinon the player at least
08:36:31 Join dokewalker [0] (~Dan@
08:36:47dokewalkerok - i had to get an irc client
08:37:24dokewalkeryou still here?
08:37:33merwinwho you lookin for doke?
08:37:54merwinhe's here
08:38:29dokewalkerall right - my kernal is 2.4.7-10
08:38:40THE-SA1NT"HD register error SC1 (85) 128, SN1 (170) 128, SC2 (170) 128, SN2 (85) 128
08:38:45THE-SA1NTWhat the hell does that mean?
08:39:06BagderTHE-SA1NT: no idea, zagor might know when he pops in
08:39:29THE-SA1NT2 Jukeboxes and neither of them work.. :(
08:39:30Bagderdokewalker: so you need to upgrade, or apply Zagor's driver as a patch
08:40:29Bagdermerwin: while you're here, that cygwin package of yours, is that for installation _after_ a regular cygwin install or does it replace it completely?
08:41:39 Join Zagor [0] (~bjst@
08:41:56*THE-SA1NT points at Zagor
08:42:01THE-SA1NTThey told me to wait for you.
08:42:09Zagortadaa, here I am
08:42:14merwinBagder: you do a full install of cygwin (minus X11), and then unzip it to an appropriate folder creating a folder structure that is the same as the unix install
08:42:49THE-SA1NT[01:38] <THE-SA1NT> "HD register error SC1 (85) 128, SN1 (170) 128, SC2 (170) 128, SN2 (85) 128" Whats that mean?
08:42:51*merwin is in beautiful Atlanta, Georgia... suprisingly cold for this time of the year
08:43:31ZagorTHE-SA1NT: that's the archos firmware complaining. mostly it happens with low batteries.
08:43:42THE-SA1NTThey're brand new and freshly charged. :(
08:44:08Zagorhmm, bad
08:44:30merwinwhat is the link to the cvs instructions?
08:44:52Bagderdocumentation => cvs
08:45:04*THE-SA1NT beats his head against the wall..
08:45:08merwinmakes sense now
08:45:10THE-SA1NTHeres another question..
08:45:24THE-SA1NT[01:29] <THE-SA1NT> Hi. Can someone help me out with the Fujitsu password lock problem? I'm trying ARCHOSUnlock.exe and when it boots up it says 'Kernel Panic: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on 21:02' Any help would be fantastic.
08:46:16ZagorTHE-SA1NT: which archos model do you have?
08:46:39THE-SA1NTThe first problem is with the 6000-recorder, the second question is about the 6000
08:47:54 Quit dokewalker ("Client Exiting")
08:50:27ZagorTHE-SA1NT: i guess you don't run linux normally?
08:50:34*THE-SA1NT chews on some green cells.
08:50:44THE-SA1NTWell, no. :\
08:56:40***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
08:56:52THE-SA1NTAny ideas?
08:57:24merwindamn, I hate setting up cygwin on new laptops :P
08:58:45ZagorTHE-SA1NT: can't say I do. when did this start happening?
08:59:42 Join langhaarrocker [0] (
08:59:53THE-SA1NTWhen I tried to run ARCHOSUnlock.exe boot disk.
09:00:24langhaarrockerZagor: have you forgotten to sleep again?
09:00:27THE-SA1NTIt all loads fine up until after it loads the USB drivers then says, 'Kernel Panic: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on 21:02'
09:00:37Zagorlanghaarrocker: oh, missed that... ;)
09:08:36ZagorTHE-SA1NT: no, i mean when did you start seeing the disk problem?
09:08:46 Quit merwin ()
09:09:03THE-SA1NTOh, no idea. Months ago, but I've been too busy to work on them.
09:09:06THE-SA1NTUntil today.
09:09:41langhaarrockerCouldn't live for months without the jukebox.
09:10:07THE-SA1NTWell, I didn't really need it til college started again.
09:10:24*Bagder learned what jukebox is called in finnish yesterday
09:10:28THE-SA1NTAnd the errors prevented me from using them, really.
09:10:53Bagder(only heard it, don't know the spell)
09:12:56langhaarrockerprobably a magic spell
09:14:52 Join matsl [0] (
09:26:31 Nick mem_away is now known as mem (
09:29:38matslBagder: discussed with kjer to use double sized font for player as you suggested earlier.
09:29:59Bagderperhaps that's no needed anymore
09:30:04Bagderusing his resizable window
09:30:09matslafter that the player simulator should look ok I think.
09:30:36matslYes. resize window if you want it to be bigger.
09:30:53Bagderthe resize bugs bad though
09:31:24matslwith double size font I mean. use 10x14 font that looks like 5x7 (or whatever size it is on the real font.)
09:31:33BagderI understand
09:31:49 Join merwin [0] (~none@
09:31:50 Join dokewalker [0] (
09:31:50BagderI just thought that perhaps that's not necessary anymore when you can resize and zoom the window
09:31:51matslthere are things to do to the resize also
09:32:28matslyes but the icons can't be made smaller so they don't fit on a 6*11 width screen.
09:32:35Bagderah, good point
09:32:51matslBagder: kjer sais hello!
09:33:10Bagdertell him his resize is crap ;-)
09:33:13Zagormatsl: tell him to get himself in here
09:33:27Bagderit doesn't work on my machine
09:33:37Bagderit jumps back and forth like crazy
09:33:43Bagderand I know why
09:33:54matsltell him now
09:33:59Zagorand the scroll bugs, and he uses the wrong font, and...
09:34:18matslwe are working on that!
09:34:36Bagderit bugs because he uses 'Expose' and I have a window manager that keeps the windows' contents as much as possible...
09:34:44Bagderthus, resize don't get the full window size as 'Expose'
09:35:00Bagderthat I can resize it bigger and *plopp* get my zoom *tiny*
09:35:28Bagderit practicly makes it impossible to zoom
09:37:51merwinany clue what error 255 is when make'ing the mod file?
09:39:05merwinI think my copy of cygwin is screwed... :(
09:39:07Bagderit doesn't say anything?
09:39:54merwinBagder: it complains about chmod a lot when doing the cvs co, and says it's missing files that are there during the build :)
09:40:19Bagdersounds odd
09:41:34*merwin may have to give up on cygwin for tonight
09:42:11merwinyup, the new download of cygwin was f**ked
09:42:54merwingood think I have a copy of the old download of cygwin on my archos :-)
09:44:58merwinbedtime for me...
09:45:04 Nick merwin is now known as merwin|zZzZz (~none@
09:46:59dokewalkerhey badger - do you think you could help me get my studio to run under linux
09:47:04dokewalkeri got 2.4.9-13 now
09:47:35Zagordokewalker: update your kernel
09:47:48Bagderdoesn't that have your driver?
09:48:07Zagoryeah, but it also has some bus in other parts of the usb sybsystem
09:48:21dokewalkeri'm looking at the web page - its says that has to be updated
09:48:31dokewalkeror something - although I cant find it on my system
09:49:25Zagordokewalker: with that old a kernel, you need to compile. and then you need to download the kernel source. and if you are going to do that, why not simply update to the latest and greatest?
09:49:48dokewalkeris that 2.4.10?
09:50:08Bagder2.4.19 I think
09:50:44merwin|zZzZzit's still giving me errors when compiling the mod :(
09:50:45merwin|zZzZzUpdating dependencies for /home/Administrator/rockbox/build/main_menu.c
09:50:45merwin|zZzZzmain_menu.c:42:18: lang.h: No such file or directory
09:50:46DBUGEnqueued KICK merwin|zZzZz
09:50:46merwin|zZzZzUpdating dependencies for /home/Administrator/rockbox/build/language.c
09:50:46merwin|zZzZzlanguage.c:23:18: lang.h: No such file or directory
09:50:47***Alert Mode level 1
09:50:47merwin|zZzZzUpdating dependencies for /home/Administrator/rockbox/build/credits.c
09:50:47***Alert Mode level 2
09:50:47merwin|zZzZzcredits.c:28:71: credits.raw: No such file or directory
09:50:51merwin|zZzZzstuff like that near the end
09:50:59Bagderyou need perl
09:51:22Bagderreally ;-)
09:51:23Zagorthose complaints are normal during dependency check
09:51:23 Quit langhaarrocker (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
09:51:55Bagderbut then they're not near the endd
09:52:59Zagordependency checks are never near the end...
09:53:45 Join langhaarrocker [0] (
09:54:09merwin|zZzZzI've got perl
09:54:22merwin|zZzZzit dies here:
09:54:22merwin|zZzZzsh-elf-gcc -O -W -Wall -m1 -nostdlib -ffreestanding -Wstrict-prototypes -fomit-
09:54:23merwin|zZzZzframe-pointer -fschedule-insns -I../firmware/include -I../firmware -I../firmware
09:54:23***Alert Mode level 3
09:54:23merwin|zZzZz/common -I../firmware/drivers -I../firmware/malloc -I. -I/home/Administrator/roc
09:54:24***Alert Mode level 4
09:54:24merwin|zZzZzkbox/build -DARCHOS_PLAYER -DAPPSVERSION=\"021018-0350\" -Iplayer -c /home/Adm
09:54:24***Alert Mode level 5
09:54:24merwin|zZzZzinistrator/rockbox/build/lang.c -o /home/Administrator/rockbox/build/lang.o
09:54:25***Alert Mode level 6
09:54:25merwin|zZzZzmake[1]: *** No rule to make target `../docs/CREDITS', needed by `/home/Administ
09:54:27merwin|zZzZzrator/rockbox/build/credits.raw'. Stop.
09:54:29merwin|zZzZzmake[1]: Leaving directory `/home/Administrator/rockbox/apps'
09:54:31merwin|zZzZzmake: *** [apps] Error 2
09:54:37Zagoryou need to check out the docs/ module from CVS
09:54:48merwin|zZzZzyou have to check out docs?
09:55:07merwin|zZzZzheh, good to know
09:55:35langhaarrockerDoes anybody know a trick how to remove the jukebox from a Win2k machine without having to log out ?
09:55:42merwin|zZzZzwow, that works now
09:56:19Zagorlanghaarrocker: without having to log out??? can't you just "eject" it?
09:56:35langhaarrockerno, it says the drive was busy.
09:57:26langhaarrocker(no, I have no files or applications open on the jukebox)
09:57:32Zagorthat's probably windows doing some junk to it. do you have "system restore" or similar active?
09:57:47ZagorI've heard XP has that problem, at least
09:58:03THE-SA1NTGo to your "Hardware" tab in your control program..
09:58:03langhaarrockerYou're right at that point :)
09:58:12THE-SA1NTSelect the Jukebox, right click, eject.
09:58:39THE-SA1NTIf it whines, delete it from the list. :P
09:58:50merwin|zZzZzWoo. My first commit in over a month. I should do that more often. heh. NOW it's bedtime
09:58:51merwin|zZzZzg'nite all
09:59:35merwin|zZzZzI thought that I hadn't done much for 1.4, but it turns out that all of the player-specific updates were partially my projects. :P
10:00:05merwin|zZzZz1.4 took a very long time to release
10:00:29Bagdernight merwin
10:00:39merwin|zZzZzok, definitely bedtime. nite
10:04:26***Alert Mode OFF
10:04:54Bagderbtw, that build table thing
10:05:07Bagderit still hasn't collapsed because it uses all build logs as input
10:05:14Bagderonly showing the 20 newest ones
10:05:21langhaarrocker<THE-SA1NT> It wouldn't allow me because the drive is claimed to be busy.
10:05:53THE-SA1NTJust unplug it?
10:05:55 Quit dokewalker ("Client Exiting")
10:06:45langhaarrocker<THE-SA1NT> I consider that dangerous. In that case I'd rather relogin. Then Win2k doesn't complain
10:07:16THE-SA1NTMaybe your USB device manager thingie hates you?
10:07:42Bagderhey, its windows, did you expect anything else? ;-)
10:07:58THE-SA1NTActually, see if something like NVS or something with three letters one being an N is running in your task manager.
10:08:19THE-SA1NTBagder: Better than OS2/Warp. :)
10:08:46Bagderwhat's that? :-P
10:09:00langhaarrocker<THE-SA1NT> no nvs
10:09:20langhaarrockerapart from being evil?
10:09:36THE-SA1NTBagder: google it. :P
10:09:58THE-SA1NTlanghaarrocker: Any USB management looking stuff running?
10:10:16THE-SA1NTI'm very tired so please pardon my indecriptness. :P
10:10:17langhaarrockerOnly that stuff that appeared with the jukebox drivers
10:10:58Zagorlsof is nice...
10:11:36langhaarrockerWhat bothers me: it seems that the usb devices appear thrice in the hardware manager.
10:11:45THE-SA1NTKill them..
10:11:56THE-SA1NTMaybe they're conflicting on the software side.
10:12:12langhaarrocker*&§. Must relogin with more rights. cu.
10:12:24 Quit langhaarrocker (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
10:12:28THE-SA1NTWhat the hell is cu?
10:12:36Bagder"see you"
10:13:00THE-SA1NTI thought it was part of his error message..
10:13:06THE-SA1NTI was attempting to decode it. :P
10:13:11 Join langhaarrocker [0] (
10:13:50THE-SA1NTOooo... Cool. My Blind Guardian tickets came today! :D
10:19:56langhaarrockerTHE-SA1NT So you don't have the usb stuff more than once in your hardware tab?
10:19:57 Quit Zagor (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
10:20:11THE-SA1NTlanghaarrocker: Nope.
10:20:22 Join Zagor [242] (
10:20:50langhaarrockerZagor: like a phoenix.
10:22:22langhaarrockerTHE-SA1NT After deleting the devices I reboot and Win2k informs me happliy it found all those tree usb Controller / hub devices.
10:22:43THE-SA1NTYour box has a hardon for triplets.
10:24:05langhaarrockerWhere was it that I find the isd200 drivers?
10:27:40 Quit Bagder ("")
10:32:29PsycoXulhmm what was with that old feature request getting a mailing out?
10:32:38 Join vekar [0] (
10:32:51 Nick vekar is now known as kargatron (
10:33:06ZagorPsycoXul: kargatron is our new request janitor :-)
10:33:14PsycoXulheh i've had a hacked mpeg.c for a while now that turned the line-in on along with the mp3-output on init... it works quite well
10:33:17 Join LinusN [0] (
10:33:56PsycoXulZagor: so what'd he do to it? i didn't see anything new of notice in the mail
10:34:26Zagorthe changes have a > first in the line. the last changes got new categories.
10:34:53kargatronquestion about recent request mods?
10:36:00kargatroni'd still like to see some list discussion on good categories - daniel added some obvious ones, but plainly lumping the rest all under 'interface improvements' is not so useful
10:43:14Zagori think new categories will transpire
10:44:25kargatronundoubtedly, just urging people to think about it...
10:56:44***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
11:01:43Zagor"It is often preferable to simply backup you Exchange Server Data and reinstall, instead of trying to find the one hidden setting that is causing the error in your configuration." −− MS Exchange Manual
11:01:48Zagorgotta love it
11:22:59 Join TotMacher [0] (
11:31:03Zagorkargatron: UI improvements could maybe be split into wps, browser and other
11:31:46kargatronone definitely needed, i think, is 'new functionality' or equiv
11:32:10kargatronwas thinking wps went into configuration, but easy enough to split out
11:33:27kargatronhm, not new functions, maybe 'misc functions', since some might be on extant functions
11:38:50langhaarrockerWhere would a split editor fit in?
11:39:52kargatronyou mean category-wise? 'misc functions' sounds good to me. :) Or recording, if this was about recording?
11:40:21kargatronsurely a generic mp3 editor would not be considered for the jukebox. :)
11:40:27Schnueffmaybe a category 'applications'
11:41:41kargatronwhat's the basis of the cat 'hardware mods' - meaning rockbox accommodating specific mods?
11:42:12Zagorno, it means requests that cannot be implemented in software alone
11:42:20Zagorthus requiring hardware modifications
11:42:53kargatronbut the rockbox team would never be involved with hardware mods, right?
11:43:01kargatronor is that just a catch-all for auto-rejection? :)
11:44:01kargatronok, enough cat-changing for today
11:44:19Zagorno we won't do hardware mods as part of the project.
11:44:26Zagorwe may do it for personal fun though
11:44:50Zagorthe debug serial port is an exception. that's part of the project.
11:50:42langhaarrockerSo assume I wrote code that reads out a digicam via the serial part it wouldn't become part of rockbox? Not even as complie time option?
11:51:25Zagori would suggest that to be a separate application, written using the firmware module of rockbox
11:52:24kargatronZagor, some request policy qstns:
11:52:44kargatronshould summary/titles be kep original, or modified to be clearer, if reasonable?
11:53:11kargatronif there are duplicates, should the earliest one be chosen as primary, or simply the best stated of the group?
11:53:57Zagorit depends. keep the earliest, unless another has more valuable information attached to it
11:54:36kargatronand change earliest summary to best statement of issue
11:54:49kargatronkeep dupes open, right?
11:54:59kargatronclose only happens upon release?
11:55:13Zagorno, duplicates can be closed. they serve no useful purpose.
11:55:38Zagorthe purpose of having fixed items open is to illustrate the difference between the last official release and the daily build
11:55:53kargatronah, right
12:04:15 Nick matsl is now known as matsl|lunch (
12:06:31 Quit kargatron ("Suckers!")
12:16:24 Join Triple-z [0] (
12:19:56 Quit THE-SA1NT ("THE-SA1NT -- Americas Most Unwanted Eligble Bachelor")
12:25:07 Nick LinusN is now known as LinusN|lunch (
12:29:05Triple-zany news with the queue?
12:29:44 Join williams [0] (~silverbox@
12:29:49williamshi all!
12:30:16williamsno sugar added?!
12:41:11williamswhat about cream?
12:42:42 Nick matsl|lunch is now known as matsl (
12:56:46***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
13:02:12 Nick LinusN|lunch is now known as LinusN (
13:07:41Zagorcream is good
13:10:00Zagori thought bagder said the compile status table would collapse
13:10:16 Part LinusN
13:11:41 Join kargatron [0] (
13:12:12kargatronZagor, bookmarking tracks vs playlists - separate requests? or combine them?
13:12:42kargatroni figure the implementation must be at least a little different
13:12:42Zagori'm not sure about the details. what are they really requesting?
13:13:05 Join LinusN [0] (
13:13:05kargatronremembering place in a given playlist, or a given track
13:13:12kargatronmultiple bookmarks
13:13:29kargatronor rather, multiple playlists/files
13:13:35kargatronnot multiple within one item
13:13:38Zagorok. bookmark-in-file is not the same request as bookmark-in-list
13:13:47kargatronthat's what i figured, just checking
13:17:19 Part LinusN
13:17:32williamszagor: sorry 'bout yesterday, i was tired and fallen to sleep X-)
13:19:41Zagorno problem
13:22:19williamsare you busy?
13:22:50Zagornot terribly
13:22:59 Join LinusN [0] (
13:23:05LinusNdamn tunnel
13:24:13williamszag: where did i leave yesterday? discussing the pitch steps and the slow down speed up thoughts?
13:24:40Zagoryeah, we were talking about having buttons that speed up/slow down 2% while you press them
13:25:14langhaarrockerI had a short glance at the viewer code yesterday. To me it seems that implementing a word-wrap on that base would be a near rewrite.
13:27:10williamszag: but it won't be possible to hear the signal while pressing, am i right?
13:27:25Zagoroh, you will
13:28:18 Join Bagder [241] (
13:28:35ZagorBagder: yeah, very
13:28:36LinusNBagder: go away!
13:29:00CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
13:29:00*Bagder hides from the evil dr Linus
13:29:22Bagderyou guys know anything about AC97?
13:29:25LinusNBagder: we might want to get rid of the P-old columns
13:29:34Bagderthey will dissappear
13:29:34LinusNBagder: sound?
13:29:45BagderLinusN: a sound codec, yes
13:29:51LinusNBagder: when will they disappear?
13:30:02LinusNi don't know anything about ac97
13:30:05Bagderwhen the player-old stuff is not left in the build logs anymore
13:30:16LinusNthe table is epmty
13:30:29williamsi scrolled through a few more logs yesterday and found your thoughts about the possibility to have something like a pitch-wps so that it can be handled with one hand (not the on + up and down solution). i think it's a good idea
13:30:31Bagderbut only the 20 newest entries are shown
13:30:37Bagderthe code deals with all the logs present
13:30:38williamslinus: what info do you need?
13:30:47LinusNBagder: and when do those logs disappear
13:31:13BagderLinusN: they're removed in the same pace as the daily builds, I think they live for 6-7 days or so
13:31:15LinusNwilliams: what ifo?
13:31:23LinusNBagder: ok
13:31:51ZagorBagder: it's a base-level soundchip interface, IIRC
13:32:08LinusNBagder: what do you want to know?
13:32:10williamslinus: sorry, missread you, should be addresse to bagder
13:32:42williams(need one more coffee)
13:33:03Bagderin my project we're gonna use a PXA250, and we want support for streaming sound. The PDX250 is an Intel ARM thing with AC97 support
13:33:34LinusNBagder: sign an NDA and purchase a $10000 developers kit :-)
13:33:48BagderI guess they'd like that ;-)
13:34:11BagderI think Zagor summarized it well
13:34:39BagderI'll need to put together a test app anyway
13:34:44LinusNBagder: there are AC97 Linux drivers to look at afaik
13:35:49BagderI wonder if using speex is feasable ;-)
13:36:22Zagorwhat's that?
13:36:30Bagderopen-source, patent-free voice codec
13:36:33Bagderfrom xiph
13:37:26Zagorah, nice
13:37:48Bagderthe sound we need is only for voice
13:38:35LinusNDon't you just love this kind of code:
13:38:37LinusN // this returns the MPEG version [1.0-2.5]
13:38:37LinusN float getVersion();
13:39:20Bagderhm, I better fix some lunch
13:39:40langhaarrockerBagder: lousy cook?
13:39:48Bagderbtw, I got konq-e run on qt/e on my linux fb now, really neat
13:40:02Bagderlanghaarrocker: make that lazy cook ;-)
13:40:41langhaarrockerwhat's that qt/e? Lately I see that frequently here.
13:40:48LinusNQT embedded
13:41:00langhaarrockerWhat's QT?
13:41:01Bagderrunt qt stuff directly on the linux framebuffer
13:41:08BagderQT is a gui toolkit
13:41:27langhaarrockerAh. So it's about the simulator gui?
13:41:40Bagderno, its totally off-topic ;-)
13:42:36langhaarrocker:) Made me feel a bit stupid...
13:42:46williamslanghaarrocker: where from germany are you?
13:43:17kargatronwell, there's a total of 7 requests for queueing
13:43:24langhaarrockerAny head hunters listening?:)
13:43:29Bagdermatsl: you are aware that you caused the red build, right?
13:43:45kargatronafter marking duplicates, may I up the priority of the primary, if only to bring attention to future potential dupers?
13:44:18BagderI think you should
13:44:31 Part LinusN
13:44:34Bagdernow, I'll go eat
13:44:35williamslanghaarrocker: sorry, no i'm not hunting :-) but i'm not far away from you. i live in krefeld
13:44:36kargatron7, 8, 9?
13:44:49 Quit Bagder ("")
13:44:55Zagorkargatron: not too much
13:45:13kargatron7 then? it's at least distinctly redder
13:45:46kargatronnot my decision, since i'm not coding, you can decide. :)
13:46:56 Join LinusN [0] (
13:47:17langhaarrockerLinuN: tunelled again?
13:47:29LinusNshaky firewall
13:50:17kargatronoh, darn, i was hoping you were talking about a wireless net connection on the road. Was going to be impressed!
13:50:59langhaarrockerSome tunnels have firewalls as hardware :)
13:53:57langhaarrockerwilliams: When the wether is fine and the wind is from southwest on a weekend you might find me even closer to Krefeld. Then I might be paragliding on Halde Nord near Moers.
13:57:05williamsok, that's only a "stone-throw" away :-)
13:57:46williamsxtreme offtopic but paragliding sounds like a very cool thing to forget computer from time to time
13:58:43LinusNforget the computer? why? :-)
13:59:02langhaarrockerwilliams: Yes. Next year I might buy some navigation computer for paragliders ...
13:59:44langhaarrockerunless we have gps support for rockbox until then.
14:00:19Schnueffif u play too much worms while paragliding u might crash
14:00:51LinusNbug #86473: Crashed while playing Worms
14:00:54williamsput usb-master functionality into a palm and connect it to a rockbox, than you have hd-space and a big screen :)
14:00:55langhaarrockerargh! :)
14:01:14Zagorwilliams: ok, how about this: ON+RIGHT sets pitch to +2% (from whatever is current), releasing it returns to whatever was before. ON+LEFT does the same, but -2%
14:01:35williamssounds practical to me
14:01:43Zagorok, committing
14:02:07LinusNwilliams: i thought you wanted 0.1% steps, why 2%?
14:02:17williamsdepends on a test, but i think it makes sence to make the 2% configurable
14:02:35ZagorLinusN: i changed to 0.1% steps too. this is a different feature.
14:03:00williamslinus: like the pitchable cd players we need a way to bend the pitch as an opposite to the pause-feature to achieve accurate sync
14:03:09ZagorUP/DOWN changes 0.1% steps. LEFT/RIGHT is used to beatsync and is therefore using a temporary bigger pitch
14:03:10williamsgot the point?
14:03:18LinusNi got it
14:03:32LinusNtoo bad we can't get rid of the clicks...
14:03:39williamsthat's right
14:04:05williamsbut nevertheless i'm very flashed about your work so far!
14:04:41williamswhat about a pitch-wps with one-hand functionality?
14:04:50Triple-zwhat headphone you use with the AJB?
14:05:02LinusNTriple-z: any...
14:05:02Zagorwilliams: will do that later
14:05:27williamstriple: sennheiser mx500
14:05:31williamszag: very nice
14:05:32Zagorwilliams: this was a very simple addition, the one-handed is a slightly bigger job affecting other parts
14:05:41LinusNTriple-z: Sony EX-70
14:06:23williamslinus: are those the in ear monitoring type headphones with the rubber earplugs?
14:06:27Triple-zvivianco is ok?
14:06:39LinusNwilliams: earbuds, yes
14:06:43Zagorwilliams: yeah. they are awesome.
14:06:45williamszagor: thought so
14:06:46kargatronthose are on my buy list, but let me ask - is external sound masked much?
14:06:52ZagorLinusN: they are not normal earbuds
14:06:57kargatroni.e. good for planes, bad for the street?
14:06:57LinusNZagor: the wps stops updating if you hold F1
14:07:06langhaarrockerHas anybody found a good use for those headphones that were shipped with the archos?
14:07:08williamsthese ones have VERY good bass
14:07:10kargatron(dangerous for the street, i mean)
14:07:10LinusNZagor: true
14:07:30Zagorkargatron: pretty much, yeah. but not so much that it's dangerous in traffic.
14:07:34LinusNlanghaarrocker: hand to hand combat?
14:07:42Zagoror maybe just a little :-)
14:07:56williamsbut i feel a bit seperated while wearing them because the sound isn't open to sounds "outside"
14:08:27kargatroni've read the sennhesier mx500 are good 'open' earphones (in-ear)
14:08:37Zagorwilliams: i like that. it means i can use lower volume on the music, with maintained signal/noise level.
14:08:37kargatronhaven't tried tho
14:08:41langhaarrockerkartagon: on street I don't recommend the ex70 I use Sony E868. They're much better for that purpose
14:09:15Zagorlanghaarrocker: may I ask why?
14:09:35Zagorit's not like you hear a lot of the world sitting in a car either...
14:10:06langhaarrockerbecause you don't have all the banging noise from the cables and it doesn't sound like a jurassic park stompede when walking.
14:10:49williamszagor: my musician colleague uses them and he liked them a lot until he went snowboarding and he said you can'T use them while snowbaording because you feel too unsecure not hearing the outside
14:11:02langhaarrockerBut for travelling in train I don't watn to miss my ex 70!
14:11:13williamsthe sennheiser are cheaper (half the price?) and have good bass response too
14:11:46langhaarrockerwillims: the ex 70 is nearly perfect as an expensive in-ear monitoring system for musicians.
14:12:49williamsright, that's why i tried it for djing. normally you turn your headphones louder than the inside of the club, that's ear-killing. i tried djing with in ear monitoring so that you don't have to monitor as loud
14:13:22williamsbut for that they could be even more "closed" to the outside
14:13:35langhaarrockerwilliams: for that purpose the ex 70 should be a really good choice
14:15:05langhaarrockerWhen doing recording sessions I use the ex 70 and wear big ear protectors.
14:16:41langhaarrockerThat way I can find the "sweet spots" of an guitar amp at volume 11.
14:17:17williamswhat i tried to is using conventional dj-headphones with musicsafe 2 plugs to protect my ears. it works as these plugs filter all frequencies more equally than "oropax"
14:17:23williamsyes, marshall roxx :)
14:17:37williamsi still have my pink punk-guitar :)
14:17:51Triple-z they looks good
14:18:30williamsyes, these are the ones my friend is using
14:18:45williams60euro or something like that?
14:18:59Zagorsomething like that
14:19:24kargatroncan use pricescan for those
14:19:31kargatrondepends on where you want them shipped, etc
14:19:37Triple-zi need to visit sony store
14:20:16williamsbut you can spend a lot more if you want:
14:21:46Triple-z hows those?
14:22:06Triple-zit got some extra bass groove
14:22:07 Part LinusN
14:22:21 Join LinusN [0] (
14:22:24langhaarrockerAt the end of the tunnel is a linusN
14:22:37Zagoruh, looks like a cheap gimmick. spend the money on good phones instead of a "bass vibrator"
14:23:10Triple-zheh that is
14:23:31Triple-z looks great
14:23:59langhaarrockerwilliams: btw as ear protection I use Elacin 25.
14:25:14Triple-zanyone saw the new Jukebox FM Recorder 20 ?
14:25:20Triple-znice design
14:25:43williamslanghaarrocker: and what are your experiences?
14:25:56langhaarrockerThey're very expensive.
14:26:37williamsthat's why i first tried the musicsafe ones
14:26:56williamsi didn't want to spend this amount of money to test if it's possible to deejay with it
14:27:45williamsbut i have a tinnitus for a year now (a very low one, but since i master tracks and such things you'll get worried...)
14:28:00Triple-zthe sony ex70 got good bass?
14:28:19langhaarrockerwilliams: What I don't like about them is that you get the jurassic park stompede effect with them, too. Annoying on gigs
14:28:32langhaarrockerTriple-z: That's what they're for!
14:30:02williamslanghaarrocker: really? i don't have this effect with the musicsafes!
14:30:12Triple-zi dont think they got it hear in israel tho
14:30:22langhaarrockerThe combination of the jukebox with the ex70 is not so perfect because the ex70 don't need much volume. Thus you tend to turn down the volume. And then you have a lousy s/n ratio because of this crappy jukebox.
14:30:31williamsto be honest, after 30 minutes i won't notice them
14:32:26Triple-zex70 is like 30GBP
14:32:55langhaarrockerwilliams: the wearing comfort of the ER 25 is perfect. But I can't compare it to anything but those little yellow foam thingies.
14:32:57Zagorwilliams: you can download the bleeding edge build and try the new pitch if you want
14:33:49Triple-z Etymotic ER-4S
14:34:02Triple-zso expencive
14:34:13ZagorTriple-z: so lousy
14:34:44langhaarrockerZagor: you compared them to the ex 70?
14:35:09Triple-zthey got great reviews
14:35:15Zagorand to the Sony V700, and 888's and...
14:35:27ZagorTriple-z: of course. they are expensive.
14:35:42Triple-zzagor: what your usein?
14:35:45Zagormany people are too proud to admit they spent a lot of cash on something bad
14:35:47ZagorTriple-z: ex70
14:38:18Zagorthe etymotics have no bass
14:38:20Triple-zyou all use in-ear type?
14:38:26williamszagor: bingo! works!
14:38:54Zagorwilliams: of course. :-) but is it good?
14:39:23Zagoroh, i forgot to change the screen info
14:39:35*Zagor runs out to fetch a lunch salad
14:39:45williamsi'm in the office and i can't start to mix here with two devices and a mixer, so the final test has to be done, but i can hear that it does it correctly.
14:40:31williamsbon appetit
14:40:40Triple-zwell i must replace my sony mdr-w80, i hope to find the ex70
14:40:59williamslet's talk about trackmarks when you're back, there's an open question i hav ein mind....
14:41:05Triple-zhows koss portapro?
14:43:46williamsdon't know this one
14:44:14langhaarrockerTriple-z: I don't know them. But when going for the ex 70 consider that they sound fine but you will have more noise that comes from banging cables, and stomping around. Put your fingers in your ears and walk around to get an impression of what I mean.
14:46:25kargatronlanghaarrocker, what if you surgically attach cables to neck and ear? maybe not so bad then? :)
14:46:39Triple-zso whats your recommending?
14:47:39langhaarrockerkargatron: I actually have a crocodile clamp at the earphones I use on the street to fix the cable to my cloths.
14:49:13langhaarrockerTriple-z: Get two pairs of earphones: the ex 70 when sitting around and moving little and something else for offroad use. I like the E868 for that purpose.
14:50:30Zagori'm not bother too much about the cable noise. i use my ex70s always
14:50:55williamsanyone experiences with portable microphone preamps (not in the 200$ range) ?
14:51:05langhaarrockerI build my own one.
14:51:16williamspowered by what?
14:51:20Zagorwilliams: apparently archos makes one, but doesn't sell it in the US...
14:51:43Triple-zhow you carry the jukebox? with the original bag?
14:53:03Zagori only use the bag for transportation. i keep the archos in a jacket pocket or bag when I use it
14:53:23langhaarrockerwilliams: not powered by batteries. I use it for recording gigs -> power available.
14:53:23williamswho needs the states?!
14:53:48williamsrocker: that's the problem, i would like to have a portable one...
14:54:44williamsi like the modification that uses the digital port jack as mic in and using the internal preamp
14:55:08williamsbut i have to return my recorder in near future because of a hardwareproblem it has
14:55:36williamsit's my second one and i hate the time without it. that's why i did'nt returend it so far
14:56:50***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
14:58:50langhaarrockerI always wanted to buy the DENECKE AD-20/ZEFIRO INBOX. But it's so expensive and a bit too bulky for that price.
14:59:12williamsbtw: ever heard of that? my jukebox only starts after the second or first try. it not depends on how long i hold the on button, in most cases the first time i try to start it the green led will light up but the screen remains dark and it stays in this state. then i can press off, then hold "on" again and it will boot properly
14:59:19Triple-zSony's SRS-T77 Personal Travel Speakers
14:59:28williamsoh, don't know that denecke *googling*
15:00:04Zagorhere's the mic/preamp from archos:
15:00:36 Part LinusN
15:01:28langhaarrockerHonestly I don't really trust in a preamp / mic combo for $49. But who knows.
15:02:55williamsnobody here who tried it?
15:03:19Zagornot here, but several people in the yahoo archos forum says it's good
15:03:36williamswhat kind of people are there?
15:03:48Triple-zwhats the yahoo archos forum url?
15:03:50Zagorheh, i don't know.
15:04:01williamsquesiton in mind: do they have ears :)
15:04:14langhaarrockerwilliams: not all of them.
15:04:41Triple-zits for the recorder also?
15:05:05williamsrocker: the denecke - found it a few weeks ago at soundprofessionals. seems to be a professional solution :)
15:05:27langhaarrockerfor professional price
15:05:51williamsas expensice as the box itself :)
15:05:59langhaarrockerand bigger, too.
15:06:23langhaarrockerThat spoils all the fun about a portable recording solution.
15:06:23williamszag: you said something yesterday about looping and trackmarks? rocker is doing that?
15:06:32williamsright :-(
15:06:47williamswhat about the fancy microphones with digital output?
15:06:59langhaarrockerI have made a split editor that can loop a little. But it's not finished yet.
15:07:29langhaarrockerwilliams: I don't know any. links?
15:07:59williamsi think sony builds one
15:08:07Triple-zneo mini jukebox got nice design
15:08:10williamsi'll look after it
15:09:32williamsrocker: why i ask this loop thing: last feature to make a little mixmachine out of the rb would be the possibility to search the first bassdrumm in a track and mark it, so that you can start it. like with vinyl, you "scratch" to the first beat and there you start to mix it in
15:10:40Triple-zyou guys hear house/trance music?
15:10:42langhaarrockerMy split editor features a oscillosgramme on which it's a piece of cake to identify the bass umph visually. I think I'll expand it for other purposes (yours included), too. I
15:10:56williamstriple: i produce and spin funky housetracks
15:10:58langhaarrockerI'll need a second marker to mark start and end point.
15:11:25williamsrocker: based on the frequency analysis in the mp3 frames?
15:11:41williamsor do you fft things in the box?!
15:11:45langhaarrockerno, based on the volume info from the MAS
15:11:51williamssimple peak
15:12:35langhaarrockerI can send you a build if you want.
15:13:13williamsab dafür, bin schon ganz feucht :) if dcc won't work
15:13:45Triple-zis there a scrolling text but like the style that on the original archos frimware? (i mean that its scroll till the end of the text and goes back)
15:14:58kargatronnot currently (to my knowledge)
15:14:59williamsrocker: do you think it's possible to save trackmark infos for each mp3?
15:15:31langhaarrockerthat's not my task. But there was someone who wanted to make cue sheets.
15:15:35kargatronis 'trackmark' a bookmark? or some cue sheet thing?
15:16:03ZagorTriple-z: there is a patch submitted that does that
15:16:36williamsrocker: sounds perfect
15:16:36matslZagor: Arghhh. I seem to have broken the w32-build.
15:16:49Triple-zwhats the patch name?
15:16:58Zagormatsl: boo
15:17:17ZagorTriple-z: "Bidi. scrolling with short strings"
15:17:19Triple-zits not in the last built?
15:17:21adiamasZagor.. who's doing all the work with the feature requests?
15:17:26Zagoradiamas: kargatron
15:17:39*adiamas taps kargatron on the shoulder
15:17:45Zagorhe's our new request janitor :-)
15:18:13adiamaswe need to pull him back a bit :)
15:18:32matslZagor: Its not easy to test with no environment. Who is maintaining the w32 build?
15:19:00Zagormatsl: nobody :-) edx comes in and fixes a few things now and then, but that's all
15:19:16Zagoradiamas: is there a problem (other than drowning in sf mails)
15:19:36*adiamas nods
15:19:48adiamasmultiple same comment posts on features
15:20:02adiamaslisting features as duplicates where they aren't
15:20:08kargatronhere now
15:20:12matslZagor: OK. I can try to add what I think is missing and watch for how the light may change on the web.
15:20:20adiamaskar.. give me a sec.. ill get the url
15:20:53kargatronIDs are fine too
15:21:10adiamasother thing..
15:21:22adiamasa 'duplicate' is not a duplicate if it was the first one posted
15:21:28adiamasits only the following that are duplicates ;)
15:21:48kargatronyes, but i exercised judgment about which ones held the most info.
15:22:03adiamasi know.. im just being anal :)
15:22:13kargatroni.e. i didn't think preserving the earliest was necessarily worth moving info from one to another
15:22:19Zagoradiamas: i decided that it was ok to kill the first if subsequent had more useful information
15:22:59kargatronunimplemented requests aren't all that time-sensitive. :)
15:24:12kargatronstill, if there are items wrongly marked dupes, lemme know. It's possible I misunderstood a request I thought was noted elsewhere..
15:24:49Triple-zzagor: where i can find the bidi patch?
15:26:21ZagorTriple-z: click on "patches" in the left-side menu on the rockbox site
15:27:14kargatroncrap. this sourceforge interface is nasty about using the back button. :(
15:27:23Zagorkargatron: indeed
15:27:25Triple-zoh ;)
15:27:38kargatronthree identical notes from 'refreshed' back usage
15:27:39Triple-zi tried to do a search for it
15:28:03kargatrondidn't realize that was happening. %$%#@!
15:32:12Triple-zwell i dont really know how to handle the source code, or add the patch..
15:33:27langhaarrockerkargatron: I just got a mail concerning my feature request 551729. Can that be because you marked it for the category recording?
15:36:17kargatronis there a '>' marked somewhere?
15:36:31kargatroni've been changing categories for lots, and marking dupes too
15:38:37 Join Bagder [241] (
15:39:08kargatronlanghaarrocker, submitters get emails for any changes made
15:39:24langhaarrockerThat's what I assumed.
15:48:25williamsrocker: regarding digital mics - and
15:49:13williamsbut it's aes/ebu
15:50:17langhaarrockerIsn't that the same as spdif but differential and with some bits meaning something irrelevantly different?
15:51:26williamsdon't know the aes/ebu proticol down to the bits
15:52:11langhaarrockerI think it should be trivial (a resistor or so) to match aes/ebu for the jukebox.
15:54:26langhaarrockerhrgh. I just read the price.
15:54:50williamsi can't find a the sony-thing i have in mind
15:55:07williamsi could swear they have a small one for minidiscs and dats
15:57:38williamswhy gld plated plugs for digital signals?!
15:57:55langhaarrockerwhy a worm game for the jukebox?
15:58:24Zagorlanghaarrocker: why any game?
15:58:49williamson the site there are three "digital mics" but no word about s/p-dif or aes... it seems they're analouge but "good" for digital media as marketing-gag or something like that
15:59:03langhaarrockerZagor: because the ex 70 has a gold plated plug, too.
15:59:09williamsyepp, why games, let's make a tracker!
15:59:26williamsyes, but it's analouge, so i can see a bit of sense
16:04:39BagderZagor: me testing new feature request table output
16:05:00Zagorgoodie. it will be very useful.
16:05:12Bagdersplitting up on categories
16:06:01kargatronif possible, split out None too - that will help with maintenance
16:06:44Bagdertest page
16:07:06Bagderlots of None
16:07:12Bagderbut the data is not the latest
16:07:25Zagoryikes, are all those open?
16:07:38kargatroni polished off lots of those nones
16:07:52kargatrontomorrow should be better data set
16:08:10ZagorBagder: a htmldecode on those strings would be a good thing
16:08:19Bagderoh, right
16:08:23langhaarrockerseems rockbox lags behind the dreams...
16:08:35Zagorlanghaarrocker: :)
16:09:41ZagorBagder: only the top table has a class, the rest have class=""
16:10:00 Quit mecraw (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
16:10:07Zagorthe none table has class="fixed" for some reason
16:10:25langhaarrockerHere another inofficial feature request: if it is trivial to do please include a feature request counter per category.
16:11:13BagderI can do that on this page
16:11:42langhaarrocker... and then have a diagram on that statistic info.
16:12:27kargatronthe diagram is turning your head sideways and quickly sliding the scrollbar back and forth
16:12:44*langhaarrocker is being sick
16:16:42BagderZagor: want me to replace the h2 with some class instead?
16:16:58 Nick elinenbe is now known as elinenbe|what (
16:17:23Zagornah, h2 is good. you can add a class to it though, in case we want to tweak it
16:19:01Bagderupdated the data now
16:19:04Bagderonly 16 None left
16:19:17Bagderdown on 119 requests now ;-)
16:19:45kargatroni left some of those none deliberately - not fitting well with current cats
16:19:54kargatronmight want to use those to mull other cats
16:20:03kargatron'Applications' was one suggestion
16:20:28elinenbe|whatMy request is to get rid off all current requests
16:20:48kargatronthe easy way or hard way? :)
16:22:54elinenbe|whatthere should be a script that adds the email of anyone who makes a request to 100's of spam lists :)
16:23:08matslZagor: All green now ;-)
16:23:37Bagdergood job mats
16:23:40Zagorah, good
16:24:04BagderZagor: so, I replace the former list with this unless you object
16:24:12ZagorBagder: go ahead
16:25:42BagderI added <a name> tags too in case we ever wanna link to a category
16:26:09matslkjerand I have been doing some good pare programming today. major changes to the font handling in the player simulator is planned! Might even include special chars in the target as well.
16:26:47Zagormatsl: sounds good!
16:27:00matslJupp. pare programming is fun!
16:27:24Zagorkargatron: excellent work with the request. we who are about to code salute you!
16:27:32Bagderor pear ;-)
16:27:42matslAnother reason for using emacs for IRC. Spell!
16:28:14matslTo bad emacs lisp isn't multithreaded yet.
16:28:15kargatronglad to help
16:28:27kargatronIF it helps get them implemented. :)
16:28:49 Quit mem ("time to go home, CU!!!")
16:29:08Bagdertime will tell ;-)
16:30:03kargatronmy requests from the dev team:
16:30:16kargatron1) category analysis
16:30:26kargatron2) useful priority assignments
16:30:31kargatronas convenient
16:32:40kargatronactually, i can work on suggestions for (1) as well as anyone, so i will as time permits
16:35:32matslbbl cu
16:35:41 Quit matsl ("Client Exiting")
16:36:08kargatronBagder, amusing that priority=2 is 'insane'. what's your adjective for priority=1? :)
16:37:08Bagder"Show Me The Code" ;-)
16:37:37BagderI just find 1 such an extreme so I save it for something worse
16:37:55langhaarrockerwhich was it?
16:38:04Bagderhtml viewer
16:40:17langhaarrockerwell the bmp / jpg viewer is needed first...
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16:57:11elinenbe|whatthese .rockbox dir complaints from windows users is getting quite annoying.
16:57:25elinenbe|whatjust tell them to unzip the damn zip to their archos!!!
16:58:14Zagorwe do. but you know how people are. reading can kill you.
16:59:28langhaarrockerThere might be a point where renaming .rockbox is less hazzle than coping with all the complaints.
16:59:45elinenbe|whatI would almost agree to that..
16:59:48*langhaarrocker runs away
16:59:54williamswhy don't they simply use the dos box
17:00:06elinenbe|whatI can't wait until thing like the sokoban levels are in the .rockbox/sokoban/ dir
17:00:24elinenbe|whatwe should force weird things upon all users :)
17:00:30elinenbe|whatput all mp3 in .mp3
17:00:47elinenbe|whatput them all in /.mp3
17:00:54langhaarrockerwe need password locked screensavers
17:01:07elinenbe|whatdoes anyone here have a DVD-R burner.
17:01:50elinenbe|whatI am thinking about purchasing one, my friend is selling me a new one for $99. Should I get it? DVR-102 2x DVD burner 8x CD burner
17:03:29kargatronlook at users reports for the model on, or places like that
17:03:29kargatroncnet, etc
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17:07:24Namuchanyone alive here?
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17:08:14*Zagor waves
17:08:29langhaarrockerwilliams: I told you not to use the mp3 split editor in irc!
17:08:39Bagderwe're just splitting a bit ;-)
17:09:16Zagorthose split tools are dangerous toys. keep away from children and williams.
17:09:40williamssharp toy!
17:09:47kargatronjust gotta share with Matrix fans: these are bad-ass:
17:11:57Zagorkargatron: that top pic looks a bit... hermafrodite? male face, female body
17:12:50langhaarrockeracutally I didn't look at the face...
17:12:51williamsface looks like morpheus :)
17:13:32kargatronaayilah's replacement, forget name
17:14:34ZagorJada Pinkett
17:14:40edxZagor: i'm having toruble with the lcd-player.c fuke
17:14:52Zagoredx: what problems?
17:15:02edxlinker errors:
17:15:13edxin the win32sim:
17:15:13edxmain.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol _lcd_init referenced in fun
17:15:13edxction _init
17:15:44edxlcd_init... must be defined by lcd-player.c - the object is there, but the function seems not to be defined - any idea why that could be?
17:15:56Zagoredx: ah, sim issues? you should talk to matsl
17:16:15edxwell he's not in :P
17:17:12BagderI'm not sure I like this new order
17:17:33Bagderlcd-playersim.c is basicly the exact same file as lcd-recorder.c
17:17:47edxdamn it.. i opened the wrong file
17:17:48ZagorBagder: !
17:17:52*edx is very tired and stupid
17:18:02BagderI can't see any reason for this
17:18:25Zagorholy crap!
17:18:33*Zagor brings out the spankomat
17:19:12williamslol. sounds like one of the devices :)
17:20:05*edx fixed the makefile for win32sim
17:20:55williamszagor: i will try out the new 2% bend feauture tonight in our club... i think it could work
17:21:28Zagorwilliams: cool. let me know if there's any more tweaks we can do.
17:22:16edxthe last few days i've written a string class which is faster than the STL's :D
17:22:27williamsi think it would be helpful to be able to customize the pitch step size and the new bend feature size
17:22:31*edx commited the new makefile
17:22:41williamsshould'nt be too hard, or do i miss something?
17:23:11Zagorwilliams: no, it's not hard. we're just trying to keep the number of custom flags/values down.
17:23:16williamsthen all is fine, exept for the lack of saveable cuepoints, but that is another issue i think ;-)
17:24:18langhaarrockerI think I should rename the split editor to something else.
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17:24:38williamswhere is the limit? a memory problem?
17:24:57williamsrocker: why, what do you have in mind?
17:25:14Namuchanyone know how to troubleshoot build problems with the uisimulator?
17:25:17langhaarrockerfinding split points and cue points is the same thing
17:25:45langhaarrockerJust as finding loop points.
17:26:03edxNamuch: what simulator? win or linux?
17:26:05williamscue(point) editor
17:26:21edxthen i'm the wrong guy to ask (Bagder?!)
17:26:22BagderNamuch: what's the problem?
17:26:53Namuchseems like i'm getting mixups with the sh-elf headers and the regular system/x11 headers
17:27:29Bagderwhat makes you say that?
17:28:00Namuchthe compiler can't find sys/types.h and it looks like it's pulling in the wrong 'malloc' 'memcpy', etc....
17:28:09Zagortkdiff is pretty neat
17:28:31 Nick merwin|zZzZz is now known as merwin (~none@
17:28:31DBUGEnqueued KICK merwin
17:29:11BagderNamuch: what gcc version are you using?
17:29:41Namuchthe recommended version from the rockbox.haxx website..hold on i'll tell you exact...
17:29:58Namuchgcc 3.0.4
17:30:14Bagderthe simulator is for native builds, how can that mix anything wiht the sh-elf ones?
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17:30:32Namuchthat's why i'm confused
17:31:09Namuchif i mess with the makefiles and change the header search order, i can get the code to compile
17:31:41Namuchbut, when all is said is done, i hit a final link problem with
17:31:58 Join langhaarrocker [0] (
17:33:58Bagderbut where did you install the sh include files? how can the normal gcc even find them?
17:35:06 Quit kargatron ("Suckers!")
17:36:15Namuchi followed the build instructions exactly from the website, so i think those went into the sh1/include dir
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17:36:56Namuchi can build the the actual ajbrec.ajz with absolutely no problems whatsoever, it only happens when i try to compile the uisim
17:38:18BagderI think you better gather all details and post to the mailing list
17:38:37Bagderbuilding this is normally very east
17:39:08Namuchthat's what i've gathered so far...
17:39:57Namuchcan you tell me what this ld error means? /usr/X11R6/lib/ : could not read symbols: Invalid Operation
17:42:29Bagderno idea
17:42:31langhaarrockeris there any way to ask mpeg wether it is paused or playing?
17:42:38Bagderlanghaarrocker: yes
17:42:47Namuchthanks, anyway
17:43:13edxis_playing :P
17:43:22Bagderlanghaarrocker: mpeg_status()
17:43:43edxisnt there something like is_playing?
17:43:47Bagderit used to be
17:43:55CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
17:43:55*edx is out-fashioned
17:44:12langhaarrockerbagder, you made me happy!
17:44:17*Bagder bows
17:44:25*edx lols
17:44:27langhaarrocker(edx: thx for trying)
17:45:03*edx plays the court jester while bagder bows..
17:45:26langhaarrockerYou have an mp3 of that? :)
18:07:07*Zagor gives adiamas the eye
18:08:04langhaarrockerZagor: you haven't looked at key schemes, yet, have you?
18:08:19Zagorlanghaarrocker: no, i'm afraid not
18:08:36langhaarrockerI'll simplify the demo till monday
18:08:55Zagorok, nice
18:09:16Zagori'll be here less next week. need to do some "real" work.
18:10:05langhaarrocker-> you won't have time to look at it next week?
18:10:17Zagorthat's hard to say
18:10:54langhaarrockerBut you won't be angry if I don't finish the demo for monday?
18:11:01Zagor:-) no
18:14:55langhaarrockerMaybe we can start sorting out one point anyway right now:
18:14:56langhaarrockerI wonder if we should bind key schemes to modules. Example wps uses scheme 1, browser uses scheme 2, menu uses scheme 3...
18:14:56langhaarrockerWe don't really need that because with each button press we can change the key scheme anyway. Then it wouldn't be the code that selects the scheme, but the scheme itself would change to the next scheme when it calls another module.
18:16:04Zagori'm not entirely clear about what different modules are
18:16:27langhaarrockereach program that now has its own button evaluation code can be considered as a module.
18:18:09Zagormy view is that it's not worth it adding a complex thing like this key scheme system if we still have to keep a lot of the current key code. so i would say your key scheme should replace the module code.
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18:18:34langhaarrockerOf course. yes.
18:18:51Zagorso, with schemes there are no modules
18:19:04Zagorand thus we can't bind schemes to modules
18:19:39langhaarrockerI think we still will have modules like the browser, the wps, the menus and so on.
18:19:53langhaarrockerThese modules offer some actions that can be applied to them.
18:20:01langhaarrockerThese actions are bound to keys
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18:23:09langhaarrockerIf we now have an action that selects another module we could either let the module itself select its key scheme. But I also made the mechanism that with each action that is performed the key scheme can be changed, too. So the key scheme could specify which key scheme is applied to the called module.
18:26:04Zagortake it from the beginning, with real-life examples. what is a module, what functionality does it provide? how does it work together with the scheme?
18:26:37langhaarrockerok. Assume we're in the browser and select a song.
18:27:12langhaarrockerin the current key scheme (for the browser) an action is triggered "show me wps".
18:28:05langhaarrockerNow another key scheme must be used: the key scheme for the wps.
18:28:30langhaarrockerUp to now I have the module wps select it's own key scheme.
18:29:05Zagori think the scheme/config file should specify which scheme to use
18:31:20langhaarrockerThat leads to the next point: when to change back.
18:31:38langhaarrockerAssume the user hits stop and we enter the browser again.
18:32:33langhaarrockerThe key scheme for wps could specify that we now have use the browser key scheme. The other way would be that we have the old key scheme stored on a stack somewhere.
18:32:59Zagorstacks are generally bad
18:33:53langhaarrockerAs we have figured out we won't be able to avoid stacks completely.
18:34:37langhaarrockerImagine we have a module for editing strings. We enter that module from different points -> must return to different points.
18:35:15langhaarrockerOf course we could define a new key scheme for each of these entry points that specify all different exit points.
18:35:49langhaarrockerWith inheritence of the key schemes this wouldn't be too problematic, either.
18:36:24langhaarrockerBut somehow I don't like this idea.
18:36:45Zagorme neither. too complex.
18:36:52langhaarrockerThat's why I think of storing the key scheme of the caller with the stack.
18:41:02langhaarrockerI have a really awful nightmare vision: if the module doesn't select its own key scheme we will come to the point when we have to debug things like using a wrong key scheme on a wrong module. With key schemes inheriting this opens a can of worms without a bottom.
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18:54:23langhaarrockeranother question by the way:
18:54:23langhaarrockerstatus.c uses it's own variable to determine wether to show play or pause icon. Shouldn't it better evaluate mpeg_status?
18:55:01langhaarrocker(status.c : line 118)
18:55:42Zagorlanghaarrocker: yes and no
18:55:48Zagoryes: it would be cleaner
18:56:10Zagorno: mpeg.c doesn't know when we are searching in a track. that is wps-internal.
18:56:52Zagorso it's a slightly more complex fix
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18:57:45langhaarrockerSomething like wps tells status.c when to override mpeg_status?
18:58:29Zagorumm, maybe. i haven't really looked at it in a while. busy with writing... :-)
18:59:03langhaarrockerI think it would be better if status.c asked wps wether to override mpeg_status.
18:59:41Zagorno. a) calling back-and-forth quickly becomes spaghetti. b) it would introduce an "override" state in wps
19:01:09langhaarrockerSo it's a question wether status.c has the override state or wps has it. I think since it's wps who sets the state it should own it.
19:01:54langhaarrockeryou see: I'm an oop programmer :)
19:02:57langhaarrockerBut I do see the spaghetti risk
19:03:30 Join vici [0] (
19:06:26Zagori'm a C programmer: I say take a step back and redesign this part of the code instead of throwing more states at it
19:07:05Zagori don't have the answer in my head right now, though
19:10:39vicii don't want to annoy you with stupid questions, but: what di i have to do to compile the code from the daily builds? I installed gnush (windows) and set the classpaths but it doesn't seems to work. (Or doesn't it work at all on winxp?)
19:11:31langhaarrockerI can only recoomend using cygwin because it has perl and shells and all the scripts work with it.
19:11:47Zagorvici: have you read this?
19:12:30Zagoryeah, cygwin is probably the best way.
19:14:16viciwhat is cygwin? or where do i get it from? (btw the page didn't help me, already read it) you see it would be the first time i do smth in c...
19:14:41langhaarrockercygwin is something like unix on windows
19:16:26vicithen it's not sufficient when i just installed gnush (i believed it has all the tools in it) I'll try the other one, t
19:25:53 Quit TotMacher ()
19:27:11viciother question: how can you make a .lng file out of the source? (Next time I update it I'd like to try it first... :-)
19:28:57elinenbe|whathave a good weekend. Goodbye.
19:29:03 Quit elinenbe|what ("I am leaving for a very important meeting")
19:30:11Bagdervici: you make a .lng from a .lang with 'binlang' in the tools dir
19:32:15vicioh i see, same problem as before...
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20:02:25williamsbye all!
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21:36:59langhaarrockergood night!
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