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#rockbox log for 2002-11-15

00:03:02LinusNor just a plain timing bug
00:03:26LinusNi wonder if i should retry somehow
00:03:49LinusNi need a logic analyzer
00:15:19 Join TotMacher [0] (
00:27:11 Part LinusN
00:33:55 Join kosh [0] (
00:34:24koshzagor: you guys came up with anything?
00:36:53Zagorno, nothing useful
00:39:20TotMacheryou are hard working on 2.0 ?
00:39:54TotMacherany more features than recording ?
00:40:09koshI can easily reproduce. Record >2minutes, play it, record, PANIC (5 out of 5)
00:40:22Zagoroh, plenty. all those things that have been held back due to lack of write support
00:41:02koshI guess Linus went to sleep?
00:41:13Zagoryes. i will too soon
00:42:26koshme 2.. hmm funny I have a stobing red led now.. while recording..:) someone asked for a lightshow feature;)
00:42:54Zagorhow fast?
00:43:32kosh2-2 sec.. nothing was recorded though..
00:44:09koshlet's see.. recording again.. led is on constant now.. restarting..
00:44:34koshhmm lockup..
00:46:22koshafter restart it seems to work again.. Hmm I guess I am done for today.. we'll continue this tomorow..
00:46:36Zagoryup. thanks for all the testing.
00:46:55koshno probs.. beats installing linux :)
00:47:27koshI'm out..
00:47:30 Quit kosh ()
00:47:41Zagorme too
00:47:42 Quit Zagor ("Client Exiting")
01:16:29 Join kosh [0] (
01:16:47 Quit kosh (Client Quit)
01:22:11 Quit kargatron ("Suckers!")
01:38:16 Join PsycoXuul [0] (
01:41:57 Quit TotMacher ()
01:43:29 Join TotMacher [0] (
01:45:41***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:52:16 Quit Jet8810 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:56:01 Quit PsycoXul (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:00:17 Join Jet8810 [0] (
02:01:47 Nick PsycoXuul is now known as PsycoXul (
02:14:14 Join Josh_ [0] (~Josh@
02:32:42 Quit Jet8810 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:51:35 Join tot [0] (
02:52:01 Quit tot (Client Quit)
03:09:04 Quit TotMacher (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
03:35:03 Quit Josh_ ("Client Exiting")
03:45:45***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
04:12:44 Quit bryanhg ()
05:45:49***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
06:25:56 Nick _seb_ is now known as seb-sleep (
07:45:52***No seen item changed, no save performed.
08:12:49 Join Bagder [241] (
08:22:35 Nick dw|gone is now known as dwihno (dwihno@Bald067.Baldakinen.Umea.SE)
08:22:35DBUGEnqueued KICK dwihno
08:22:39dwihnoI greet thee! :)
08:22:45CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
08:22:45*Bagder bows
08:23:20*dwihno gets everybody some hot choco
08:27:16*Bagder likes a good choco
08:27:49dwihnoOur coffee box @ work is excellent
08:27:52dwihnoCoffBox :)
08:28:08Bagderthat's a downside of working from home
08:28:11Bagderno coffee machine
08:28:28dwihnoMaking your own hot choco is always the best
08:28:34dwihnowith some (cold) whipped cream on the top
08:28:50dwihno"I never met a calorie I didn't like"
08:30:24dwihnoA GIRL mailed the mailing list!
08:31:29adi|homea girl?
08:31:33adi|homewhats that?
08:32:20dwihnosome kind of unidentified strange object
08:32:29dwihnoI think it's some kind of storage device
08:32:34dwihnoSince you can 'mount' it :)
08:32:38dwihnoErhm, never mind ;)
08:33:03adi|homeamongst other commands ;)
08:33:15dwihnofsck their "partitions"
08:33:39dwihnohdparm to increase performance etc. :)
08:33:58adi|homei was thinking more of fingering users
08:34:48dwihnoyou can't do that with a storage device :)
08:56:57adi|homejust so everyone knows.. im an idiot...
08:57:13*Bagder takes a note
08:57:29adi|homei just rm -rf'd my entire rockbox tree
08:57:51adi|homeyeha.. i thought i was in my build dir
08:57:56adi|homethats what i get at 3 am
08:58:32dwihnoDon't you just hate when that happens!
08:58:45adi|homecould be worse
08:58:47dwihnoThat's when you right click the waste basket and select "restore fil
08:58:49adi|homeive done it at /
08:58:55adi|homei wish
08:59:53adi|homeoh joy.. i get to download all the irc logs again
09:12:00 Join b0bTHC [0] (
09:12:08b0bTHChi all!
09:12:32Bagderhey bob
09:13:29b0bTHCthe next release will be directly 2.0 ??
09:14:10Bagderprobably, yes
09:14:12b0bTHCbig improvement need big step??
09:14:40Bagderwell, it will be a huge step so it makes sense to show it
09:15:47b0bTHCrecording is really great....!! but for players, it's really a big step...
09:16:14b0bTHCs/it's/it isn't
09:17:09Bagdertrue, but recording isn't the biggest step here
09:17:12Bagderfile writing is
09:17:58adi|homehmmm.. looking at sokoban, there _has_ to be a better way to draw the walls
09:18:07adi|homethen drawing each pixel in the hash for a wall
09:20:25 Join Zagor_ [242] (
09:20:29 Nick Zagor_ is now known as Zagor (
09:21:05Bagdermorning z
09:21:08b0bTHCsokoban is good but it s a little bit small, u can't increase the size on screen adi?
09:21:35adi|homelater levels use nearly all the screen
09:21:54adi|homeand the tetris solution of turning it sideways doesn't really gain us anything
09:22:07b0bTHCok the hard level are more wide
09:32:00adi|homeokay.. bed tme
09:39:03 Join quel|work [0] (
09:40:07quel|worka friend of mine has a problem with his jukebox, and i don't know what problem could it be.
09:40:47quel|workeverytime he tries to change a global variable gets a low battery error, even if he has just charged them
09:41:20Zagorhis disk is not partitioned
09:42:17quel|workjust that?
09:42:39Zagorif it is not partitioned, we can't save the settings and you get that error
09:43:13Zagorhe uses rockbox, right?
09:43:15quel|worki thought we saved that settings in the RTC, or not?
09:43:47quel|worki thought it was a RTC error, not a partition error
09:44:24quel|worki didn't know that
09:45:12quel|workis that on the FAQ?
09:45:53***No seen item changed, no save performed.
09:48:16quel|workwell, i must continue working
09:48:20quel|worksee you!
10:04:01 Join alkorr [0] (
10:04:08 Join PsycoXuul [0] (
10:16:17 Quit alkorr ("Trillian (")
10:16:34Zagorlong filenames coming up soon!
10:17:38ZagorI'm approaching the end of the file-write era. soon I can focus on more fun stuff :-)
10:20:00 Join fatboy [0] (
10:21:45 Quit PsycoXul (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
10:27:33fatboyI'm very curious about the reason why we get "*PANIC* Update fat entry 0" when pressing OFF and especially after several seconds of recording, since it means creation (truncation I should say) of "RECORDED.MP3" as a 0 bytes file !? we should have a "RECORDED.MP3" with a non 0-byte filesize for the same amount of recorded seconds.
10:28:08Zagori wonder if the buffer is flushed properly when pressing OFF
10:29:21Zagorlooks like it is
10:29:45fatboyokay it is a good start point for investigation...
10:30:31Zagori'll make a test case and see if I can force the FAT 0 panic
10:32:18Zagoryup, god it
10:32:20Zagorgot it
10:32:32Zagorfd=creat(file,0); close(fd);
10:32:52Zagorso, basically nothing was ever written to the file
10:33:31fatboyyes, i'm looking at mpeg.c and something strikes me
10:35:06fatboylines 1629-1656 : mpeg_thread
10:35:23fatboycase MPEG_SAVE_DATA: ...
10:36:23fatboyif (amount_to_save) { .. } else { #here# }
10:36:48Zagorwhat about it?
10:37:38fatboyno it's okay, i thought like a eternal loop: but it is not the same event, that's okay
10:37:55 Join TotMacher [0] (
10:38:25fatboyso indeed we have *PANIC* because nothing has be written ?
10:38:27Zagorbut the cause of the FAT0 panic is a good clue
10:39:51fatboyby the way, if we don't press OFF and let recording to go, we finally reach a *PANIC* timeout 0, does it happen when nothing is written during a certain time ?
10:40:19Zagorthe timeout is a DMA timeout.
10:40:33fatboythat is ?
10:40:38Zagorline 1598: case MPEG_REC_TIMEOUT:
10:40:58Zagorsent from line 664
10:40:59 Quit TotMacher (Client Quit)
10:41:26fatboyDMA timeout for what ?
10:41:43 Quit seb-sleep (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
10:42:05Zagori don't know exactly how this is supposed to work, so I'm not sure. but it seems a bit in PBDR stays high longer than we expect it to
10:42:10fatboyyou use a DMA for trasfering MAS encoded streams to SH1 ?
10:42:23ZagorLinus know this. I don't.
10:42:42Zagorwe at least use the dma_tick() function :-)
10:44:10 Nick PsycoXuul is now known as PsycoXul (
10:46:36fatboyyes I was looking at that
10:55:29fatboythat function looks very strange indeed
10:58:02fatboyI'm looking for the code which gets the MP3 data from MAS and I cannot find it
10:58:26Zagor mp3buf[mp3buf_write] = *(unsigned char *)0x4000000;
10:58:41Zagorline 673
10:58:55fatboy!? that's the data we get from MAS !?
10:59:12Bagderwhy use a define :-)
10:59:29Zagorfatboy: looks like it.
10:59:36fatboyoh yes !!! sorry I misread :)
10:59:38*Zagor yells for Linus to join the channel
11:00:51fatboyso you get one byte by interrupt ? I fear it is a bit overlooked :(
11:01:58fatboyokay let me have a look on MAS datasheet...
11:02:04 Nick dwihno is now known as Linus (dwihno@Bald067.Baldakinen.Umea.SE)
11:02:04DBUGEnqueued KICK Linus
11:02:07LinusHello hello! :)
11:02:18CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
11:02:18*Bagder laughs
11:02:21LinusMAS blahblah DMA writes blahblah bitswap PDF blahblah :)
11:02:33 Nick Linus is now known as dwihno (dwihno@Bald067.Baldakinen.Umea.SE)
11:02:33DBUGEnqueued KICK dwihno
11:02:53dwihnoWe need info how to program the MAS though
11:13:09fatboyok i understand now
11:16:10Zagordo you see anything wrong?
11:17:34dwihnoLots of recording code being fiddled with :)
11:45:57***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
12:04:51 Quit Bagder ("")
12:31:16 Join TotMacher [0] (
12:31:55 Join kargatron [0] (
13:07:23 Part b0bTHC
13:09:32kargatronpicked up some sony srs-t77 travel speakers - they're pretty nifty for their size/cost. very portable, sound decent enough - no more musicless hotel rooms (or at least, no more earphone only hotel rooms)
13:12:04Zagoris the main unit some kind of bass box?
13:12:19kargatronyeah, that and the amp.
13:12:27kargatroni mean, it's tiny, no matter how you cut it.
13:12:51Zagor143 x 127 x 29mm
13:12:51kargatronno replacement for a boombox sound or something. but hell, it stores the size of a paperback - perfect for travel
13:13:03Zagorlooks neat
13:13:13kargatroni even used it in the bathroom taking a shower this morning. why not? :)
13:14:36kargatronyou can even use it passively, though it's useless with the archos - just can't push 'em.
13:26:24 Part Zagor
13:27:02 Join Zagor_ [242] (
13:27:32 Nick Zagor_ is now known as Zagor (
13:45:59***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
13:50:49 Join Bagder [241] (
14:02:51 Join seb-sleep [0] (
14:07:16 Nick seb-sleep is now known as seb-school (
14:43:21BagderZagor: you use the −−abr with lame?
14:43:35Zagorno, i use −−r3mix
14:44:25Hadakawhat's −−abr?
14:44:38Zagoraverage bitrate, right?
14:45:05Zagoranother way to specify VBR quality
14:45:26Bagder"−−r3mix: Uses r3mix VBR preset."
14:45:29Bagdervery detailed ;-)
14:45:48dwihnoVery detailed indeed! :)
14:46:28Bagderwell, it's not very clear there either
14:46:46Hadakait's not?
14:46:49kargatronr3mix is said to be outdated, according to LAME developers
14:47:02HadakaI thought had quite a clear description about all the different settings
14:47:04dwihnoI use CBR, 192kbps true stereo -q 0
14:47:10ZagorHadaka: they do
14:47:12Zagor"−−r3mix" = "−−nspsytune −−vbr-mtrh -V1 -mj -h -b96 −−lowpass 19.5 −−athtype 3 −−ns-sfb21 2 -Z −−scale 0.98 -X0"
14:47:28HadakaZagor: yesyes but a big page which goes through all of those one by one
14:47:34kargatron"−−alt-preset standard" is the canonical one
14:47:57kargatronList of recommended LAME settings
14:49:00Zagori don't care if r3mix is no longer the optimal. −−r3mix is damn good quality, and i like having a single command-line parameter instead of dozens.
14:49:00HadakaZagor: on the quality page, where that stuff is at - there's a "explained here" link
14:49:22ZagorHadaka: i know. that's where I copied it from.
14:49:39Zagori didn't think you'd enjoy me pasting the whole explanation :-)
14:49:56Hadakawell yes, but that's a good page to point badger at
14:50:29Bagderok, I see it now
14:50:40kargatronZagor: '−−alt-preset standard' not so bad. :) tho it is slightly larger size than r3mix. I typically use that plus -Y to cut down filesize a bit
14:50:58kargatronanyway, that audio-illum link is quite useful i think
14:51:59dwihnoWith 20 gb, who cares about size? :)
14:52:22kargatronmaybe you don't have a lot of music. :)
14:52:35HadakaI used to do CBR, 192kbit before I switched to −−r3mix
14:52:48dwihnoHadaka: did you notice a big difference?
14:53:35Hadakadwihno: not really - except on some songs
14:53:55dwihnoHadaka: Caramelldansen is recommended to be encoded at 192kbps CBR :)
14:53:58kargatronmoving from cbr 192 to vbr will result mostly in small diffs, not big ones. but we're all anal here anyway, right?
14:54:10Bagderwe are ;-)
14:54:28dwihnoHey, talk for jorsälf!
14:54:36CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
14:54:36*dwihno needs somebody to drive the car
14:54:59Hadakaanyway, I don't see any reason to use CBR really
14:55:20kargatronCBR users are just scared of VBR. :)
14:55:20Hadakaexcept ofcourse that there's no need for the vbr header ;)
14:55:31dwihnokargatron: partially, yes :)
14:56:04BagderI like grip for ripping
14:56:12dwihnoI like EAC for gripping
14:56:26dwihnoDid a marvellous job on a scratched E-type record
14:56:35kargatronEAC + LAME - anything else and you're sent to hell when you die, right?
14:56:50dwihnokargatron: not really, but I find it an excellent combination
14:57:12dwihnokargatron: anyhow, I believe in scientologism, I will return to my space mates when I die :)
14:57:17kargatronwell, that's what god told me...
14:57:34dwihnowas it a he or a she?
14:57:59kargatronmost definitely an it.
14:58:14Zagoreac is windows only, thus useless
14:58:51kargatronah, never kept track of what it was available on
14:59:23dwihnoZagor: well, it's good for windows users :)
14:59:50Bagderso eac only rips to wav then?
15:00:08kargatronno, will call ean external encoder tho
15:00:10kargatronstill one shot
15:00:11dwihnoor some kind of raw format afaik
15:00:35dwihnodoes it support acm encoders nowadays?
15:00:49kargatronit calls any encoder you want
15:00:50Bagdergrip is just a gui thing that invokes 1) the ripper and then 2) the encoder, allowing me to pick any ripper and any encoder with my own options
15:00:56Zagoron unix you use the cdparanoia library. same thing.
15:01:58*kargatron notes that for future reference
15:02:48Hadakacdparanoia is goodness
15:06:55dwihnoI think so too!
15:07:07dwihnoDoes it remove trailing silence nowadays?
15:07:24Zagorwhy would it?
15:07:55Bagderthat's not cdparanoia's job
15:10:05dwihnoThe 2 second silence
15:10:12dwihnoI think it didn't do it in previous releases
15:10:14dwihnonot that I care :)
15:10:20dwihnoNow it's time for hot choco
15:10:31dwihnoBagder: make yourself some - it's da shiznat! :)
15:10:37Zagorif the track has 2 seconds of trailing silence, it's cdparanoias job to make sure the wav has it too
15:15:05*dwihno gives Zagor some hot choco
15:15:39Zagoryou windows people have no appreciation for the golden rule "do one thing, do it well"
15:15:56*Zagor is a unix snob
15:15:57dwihnoObviousley not :)
15:16:06*dwihno is hooked on wintendo
15:37:07Zagori'm suspecting there's something wrong with our shuffle algorithm. it feels like I get too many close hits, like 1: artist A, 2: artist X, 3: artist A
15:37:23BagderI've experienced that as well
15:37:36Zagorwith 5000 songs, that shouldn
15:37:43Zagor't happen very often. but it does.
15:39:57Bagderour rand is just too complicated to understand ;-)
15:41:27 Join elinenbe3 [0] (
15:41:37kargatronhm, it's also easy to overestimate the "spread-out-ness" of a random shuffle.
15:41:37 Nick elinenbe3 is now known as elinenbe (
15:41:48kargatroni get that feeling with every shuffle I use. :)
15:42:06elinenbeI would just like to say that Rockbox is the whip shit of all fucking shitter bonger
15:42:21ZagorBagder: yeah. someone should run a few tests with it and see if it returns reasonably random results. I think I did long time ago, but I don't remember.
15:42:43Zagorelinenbe: ehm, I guess that's a compliment? :-)
15:42:47kargatronwinamp 3 has a configurable shuffle - you tell it how far to spread out stuff. i still use 2, so haven't played with it
15:43:25elinenbeZagor: the highest
15:43:50elinenbea configurable random... sounds hokey −− like a weighted coin
15:44:12kargatronbut most people want that
15:44:18kargatron"more random than random", kinda
15:44:43kargatronthey want maximum spreadage - not true randomness (like, who cares anyway?)
15:45:16Hadakasorry, tapped in a bit late
15:45:23Hadakabut was this discussion about shuffle or random play?
15:45:24kargatronin fact, when people are told to write down a random sequence of numbers, it's quite easy to analytically tell, because they avoid true random clustering, etc
15:45:45kargatronwell, shuffle, of course. no one wants repeat-possible random, ever
15:45:52elinenbewhat? What is true random clustering?
15:46:02***No seen item changed, no save performed.
15:46:18kargatronlet's say that was a random sequence.
15:46:32Hadakawell, actually I have wanted true random play more than once
15:46:35kargatronmost people would avoid putting those 3s so close, thinking it was less random, when it's not
15:46:46kargatronHadaka, you're weird. :)
15:47:28elinenbekargatron: shuffle should not repeat songs. that is the way shuffle works on music players (cd, etc.)
15:47:38kargatronyes, i know
15:47:45Hadakaanyway, like said, shuffling may use random, but it's not random by far
15:48:15Hadakahow does it work these days btw? just a simple play the whole list in random order over and over again thingy?
15:49:24elinenbetrue random always starts with this sequence: 111121353848
15:49:49kargatronthought it was 314159265359
15:50:49elinenbeno: that is pi
16:23:10Bagdersee ya
16:23:11 Quit Bagder ("")
16:32:14 Quit fatboy (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
16:39:22 Part Zagor
16:39:23 Quit elinenbe (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
16:39:55 Join Zagor_ [242] (
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16:50:25 Part Zagor_
16:50:58 Join Zagor_ [242] (
17:00:16 Join mecraw_ [0] (
17:04:11 Quit kosh ()
17:05:52 Nick dwihno is now known as dw|gone (dwihno@Bald067.Baldakinen.Umea.SE)
17:05:52DBUGEnqueued KICK dw|gone
17:11:47 Part mecraw_
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17:38:56 Join kosh [0] (
17:41:12Zagor_whammo. long filename support added.
17:42:06koshCool.. did you read my test from last night..
17:42:41Zagor_yeah. you should write what the panic message is. we have lots of different panic calls in the code.
17:42:47Zagor_i'm guessing timeout?
17:43:02koshYup always *PANIC* timeout: 0
17:43:21Zagor_yeah. linus is chasing that problem.
17:43:27koshbut since I have been going on about this one for a while I guessed it was obvious...
17:43:55Zagor_time to call it a friday. see you!
17:44:02 Part Zagor_
17:44:39 Quit kosh ("User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby")
17:46:03***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
18:16:34 Quit TotMacher ()
19:07:00 Quit kargatron ("Suckers!")
19:42:42 Join Norrin [0] (
19:43:08NorrinJust saw on the Archos site they have the firmware up for the FM Recorder.
19:43:54NorrinIt's saved as the same filename as the regular Recorder but it appears Archos has put in some CRC to check if it's an Archos mod versus Rockbox.
19:44:25NorrinI've tried the Rockbox firmware for the regular Recorder named the same way and the FM Recorder won't use it.
19:44:30NorrinJust wanted you to know.
19:46:07***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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20:41:50 Part Norrin
20:44:43 Join kargatron [0] (
20:51:26 Join edx [0] (
20:52:35 Quit kargatron ("Suckers!")
20:54:04 Quit Giss|XC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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21:46:11***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21:49:03 Quit herbie21 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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22:12:35 Quit cole ("Leaving")
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22:55:09 Nick seb-school is now known as seb-away (
23:08:42 Join Norrin [0] (
23:10:50 Part Norrin
23:13:59 Join LinusN [0] (
23:27:03 Part LinusN
23:32:05Indioif i install rocbox my music will be cleaner?
23:34:16kargatronsound better? some say yes
23:34:28kargatronthe archos's noise level is reduced, at least
23:46:14***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"

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