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#rockbox log for 2003-05-03

00:12:13*Stevie[FP] drops a pin
00:16:17*Stevie[FP] drops two pins, Vcc and GND
00:16:44*Stevie[FP] disconnects the GND pin and marvels at the wonders of a floating ground
00:24:54*Stevie[FP] is away [gone] [KS-MsgLog Off]
00:32:07 Nick elinenbe|rules is now known as elinenbe (
01:03:14 Join Nibbler [0] (
01:20:25 Join BoD[] [0] (
01:20:26 Quit Nibbler (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:24:45Zagorbed time
01:24:48 Quit Zagor ("Client exiting")
01:49:20***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:08:14 Join midknight2k3 [0] (
02:08:38midknight2k3yeah WOOO
02:15:35BoD[]you said it
02:16:23midknight2k3hey woooooooo
02:16:39midknight2k3vrooooom skidddd crashhh
02:19:14midknight2k3i happen to think it needs more oooomph
02:19:18midknight2k3im editing it now
02:23:06midknight2k3What are you doing?
02:31:41BoD[]who me?
02:31:49midknight2k3yes you :)
02:32:19BoD[]i'm reading the rockbox mailing list :)
02:32:30BoD[]i have 3 days of unread messages
02:32:49midknight2k3when i have htat much my 'account size is critical'
02:34:20BoD[]yes but I read it with the gname interface
02:34:35BoD[]Gmane I mean
02:34:41midknight2k3whatever that is
02:35:00BoD[];) it's the "newsgroup" interface
02:37:10midknight2k3me bored
02:41:05BoD[]that's it i've read it all
02:43:41midknight2k3you're bored now too ;)
02:48:36BoD[]nop i'm going to
02:55:29 Join LinusN [200] (
02:55:53midknight2k3Hello linus
02:57:15midknight2k3i think i have battery acid on my finger :))
02:58:32midknight2k3im not sure if thats what it is or not
02:58:56LinusNbetter rinse anyway...
02:59:21midknight2k3but i was just laughing at this ( but i suppose you already read about it
03:00:24midknight2k3it's funny you should see it
03:00:48LinusNi don't have a wmv player, and i'm on a dialup :-(
03:03:26 Join Nibbler [0] (
03:04:36midknight2k3Who runs this channel anyways?
03:13:52midknight2k3I mean who's a 'boss' or whatever like the guys with the + by their names
03:14:00midknight2k3admin is what you call it?
03:14:54LinusNi think adiamas has some kind of super powers
03:15:12LinusNi guess zagor and bagder has too
03:15:25Mode"#rockbox +o LinusN " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
03:15:29LinusNand me of course
03:15:38midknight2k3really heh
03:15:51midknight2k3so you do have some powers
03:20:38 Quit midknight2k3 ()
03:38:34 Join jzoss [0] (
03:38:34 Quit Nibbler (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
03:39:07*BoD[] goes to bed, bye
03:39:41jzossup late again Linus? =)
03:41:16LinusNyup, working hard
03:41:39jzosssheesh. Well, I always said "sleep is for the weak" ;)
03:42:27jzossSometimes it seems like I can only get real work done when everyone else is gone for the day.
03:42:43LinusNsame here
03:43:33jzossQuick question (and I'll leave you to your work):
03:44:16jzossI'm reworking my editID3 patch. It hasn't been touched in a month. I was thinking of using the mp3buf to cache the ID3 tag in as I'm setting it up, and write it out all at once.
03:44:57jzossIt's not a waste, since writeID3v2 may need to resize_file (which uses the mp3buf). So I figured it'd be most consistent to mpeg_stop all the time, rather than just when we need to resize_file.
03:45:31jzossYou think it's acceptable to limit ID3 tag size to mp3buf size (so I don't have to do repetitive buffer copies. Cleaner code)?
03:46:14LinusNjzoss: check out the VBRFix code
03:46:17jzossOur ID3 tags will, of course, never be that large. It's just a matter of whether I can use that limit for copying back existing-but-unsupported tags.
03:46:34LinusNso we don't do any double work
03:46:47LinusNi have a resize function there
03:46:55jzossI was planning to use that.
03:46:55LinusNwhich uses the mp3 buffer
03:47:21jzossThat was my reasoning for thinking it was okay to use the mp3buf for setting-up the id3 tag for writing, as well.
03:47:57LinusNstill, it would be even nicer to be able to edit the tag without stopping the music
03:48:03jzossI agree.
03:48:15jzossBut sometimes, if resize_file was necessary, you'd have to stop the music.
03:48:26jzossI was thinking it would be nicer to be consistent and not confuse the user.
03:48:32jzossBut that's what I wanted your opinion on.
03:48:52jzossYou vote for keeping the music playing unless we need to resize file?
03:49:10LinusNi think so
03:49:21***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
03:49:39LinusNi mean, you could examine the id3 tag to see if it would need resizing before editing, right?
03:49:42jzossDo we need a prompt, then, if we need to resize and music is playing? "Need to resize file. Stop music"
03:50:17LinusNor we could add a pause-and-flush mechanism to the mp3 thread
03:50:41LinusNthat's probably the coolest thing
03:50:57jzossBut maybe a bit of work if this is the only place it'd be useful
03:51:10jzossAlthough it might be used during plugin-loading too, I could see....
03:51:29jzossWould allow you to semi-dynamically resize your mp3buf
03:52:01LinusNvbrfix could use it too
03:53:23jzossI'll proceed then, without stealing the mp3buf. Prompt if need to resize file. And we can augment it later if we implement pause-and-flush.
03:53:57jzossI might even be able to hack a solution that uses the resume feature to stop and auto-resume.
03:55:03jzossThanks for your time! Hope your work goes well. =)
03:55:19LinusNyou will see in about 30 minutes
04:24:23 Join Stevie-O [0] (
04:24:35jzosshiya, Stevie
04:24:43jzossI like your menu UI =)
04:25:04Stevie-Oty :)
04:25:25jzossI just sent off a message to the list with some suggestions
04:25:32Stevie-Oit's a HUGE patch
04:26:06jzossYou don't just touch menu.c, eh?
04:29:20Stevie-Olmao, no
04:29:37Stevie-Oit touches pretty much everything that displays a menu
04:30:05Stevie-OI borrowed some concepts from the device I program at work
04:30:12Stevie-Oyou know how menus are like
04:30:19Stevie-O{ str(LANG_x), func }
04:30:25Stevie-O{ str(LANG_y), func2 }
04:30:42jzossRight. I caught a bit of your IRC discussion on that earlier, when I skimmed the logs
04:30:56Stevie-Owell what I pretty much turned it into was
04:30:57jzossSo the patch is not just fancy menus
04:31:05jzossIt's fancy menus + better string handling
04:31:14Stevie-Othe fancy menus relies on the better string handling
04:31:21Stevie-Osee −− it requires preconstructed menus
04:31:44Stevie-Othe problem with preconstructing the menus using str() is, if you load another language file, those preconstructed menus is invalidated
04:32:04Stevie-Owell, technically it doesn't require preconstructed menus
04:32:06jzossSo you have to augment the language-loading code, then, to rebuild menus too
04:32:14Stevie-Ono, I didn't do that :)
04:32:22jzossEventually. Baby steps. =)
04:32:24Stevie-OI used what I think is a slightly more clever approach
04:32:45Stevie-OOur memory is at addresses like 0x09000000 and 0x0f000000
04:33:10Stevie-Othat pretty much precludes strings at addresses like 1 or 2
04:33:28Stevie-OI patched 3 functions
04:33:29jzossRight. So you munge string addresses with LANG-list-indices
04:33:44Stevie-Obasically casting a LANG_xxx value to a char*
04:34:15Stevie-Othree functions were patched: menu_draw(), set_int(), and set_option()
04:35:15jzossMy suggestion was: it's a bit confusing (to me) when you up/down in the menu and the cursor feels like it "jumps" two lines.
04:35:20jzossIt doesn't really...just feels that way.
04:35:31Stevie-OI've been trying to think of a way to deal with that
04:35:42jzossI wonder what it would look like if instead of placing the settings below the menu element, you reserved a line at top/bottom of display
04:35:50Stevie-OZ suggested that I draw stuff on the same line
04:35:52jzossMaybe with a single-pixel-line divider
04:35:55Stevie-OI thought about that
04:36:05Stevie-OI didn't know if that would be quite as intuitive
04:36:25jzossI was also thinking you could show all (or as many as fit) setting options on the line
04:36:32jzossAnd highlight the one that's selected (invert)
04:36:39jzossFor your edit-in-place.
04:36:48jzossThe highlight might be distinctive enough to set it apart
04:37:01Stevie-Owell, that brings up a point someone emailed in
04:37:04Stevie-Oto the list
04:37:06Stevie-Owhich is Player support
04:37:15jzossI don't think it's an issue
04:37:20Stevie-OPlayers don't have inverse
04:37:37Stevie-Othe current code I wrote should actually work fine on a Player
04:37:48jzossYou could demararcate it... like:
04:38:02jzoss All |One| Off
04:38:07jzossOr similar.
04:38:19jzossOr just show the selected option (like you have it now)
04:38:40Stevie-OThat would work
04:39:04Stevie-Owhat about setting values that have to wrap on the Recorder/FM?
04:39:30jzossYah. You have to scroll. :(
04:39:41jzossI'm not a big fan of scrolling.
04:39:54jzossYou probably want to only show one option if you have to scroll things.
04:40:13Stevie-OScrolling is a necessary evil
04:40:26Stevie-Oif only Archos had picked an LCD display, oh, say, twice as wide
04:40:43jzossheh. Then the device would be the size of the creative nomad
04:40:43LinusNi just committed fm radio support for the FM recorder
04:40:48jzossYEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! =D
04:40:50Stevie-Ocool, Linus
04:41:09jzossI'd try it out, but first you have to air-mail me your FM recorder
04:41:26jzossDoes it work in the sim? just kidding
04:48:21LinusNfinally, i can go to sleep
04:48:27jzossGood job
04:48:29jzossSleep well!
04:48:34 Part LinusN
04:48:35 Quit Jet8810 ("Client exiting")
04:56:53 Quit Stevie-O (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
04:57:01 Nick _seb_ is now known as seb-sleep (
05:08:24 Nick PsycoXul_ is now known as PsycoXul (
05:08:37jzosshello, PsycoXul
05:09:42jzosslinus committed FM recording just a bit ago.
05:09:55jzossAs in committed to CVS. Not committed some kind of crime. =)
05:11:00jzoss*FM playing (recording to come later), anyway
05:12:50PsycoXulyeah i saw
05:20:50 Join Nibbler [0] (
05:22:24 Join Stevie-O [0] (
05:22:56Stevie[FP]Only in rockbox-new/apps: Makefile.bak
05:22:57Stevie[FP]Only in rockbox-new/apps: credits.raw
05:22:58Stevie[FP]diff -u -b -r -x '*.o' -x '*.map' rockbox-daily-20030502/apps/debug_menu.c rockbox-new/apps/debug_menu.c
05:22:59Stevie[FP]−−- rockbox-daily-20030502/apps/debug_menu.c2003-04-10 00:00:21.000000000 -0400
05:23:00Stevie[FP]+++ rockbox-new/apps/debug_menu.c2003-05-02 14:04:52.000000000 -0400
05:23:01***Alert Mode level 1
05:23:01Stevie[FP]@@ -1211,30 +1211,30 @@
05:23:02***Alert Mode level 2
05:23:02Stevie[FP] bool result;
05:25:26Stevie-Oglad I made that diff!
05:27:36Stevie-Ook, now that I have the diff
05:27:39Stevie-OI need the original src
05:28:14Stevie-Ook, wgotten
05:29:57*Stevie-O gets the sdk
05:31:43Stevie-O7% at 5kb/s
05:32:11jzossoh, my
05:32:46PsycoXuldo fmrec's charge from usb?
05:32:57PsycoXuli just plugged it in without booting it up, and it booted itself up
05:33:03***Alert Mode OFF
05:33:16PsycoXulso it ran from the rom firmware and i noticed the battery icon was filling up when i went to unplug it
05:34:43Stevie-O30 mins left on the sdk. yay.
05:49:23***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
06:06:04 Join OneCluedCoder [0] (
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06:16:56 Nick OneCluedCoder is now known as Stevie-O (
06:21:00jzosssdk showed up yet?
06:29:07Stevie-Oyeah, i guess I can install it
07:34:54 Join Nibbler [0] (
07:49:27***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
08:20:21PsycoXulso i played with the FM
08:20:21 Quit Nibbler (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
08:20:23PsycoXulseems kinda loud
08:20:27PsycoXuland it doesn't stop
08:20:35PsycoXulwhen you quit the FM screen it keeps playing the radio
08:21:01PsycoXuli had to reboot it (i'll try ROLO'ing next time) before i could hear anything but the radio
08:21:29PsycoXuland i had to turn the volume down to like 75 to listen to it
08:21:35PsycoXuland then back up to like 90 to listen to mp3's
08:22:22PsycoXul(80-90 is what i usualy listen at)
08:26:42 Join Freek [0] (
08:26:58Freekhey hey
08:28:18PsycoXulhi everybody
08:28:29Freekhehe hey
08:28:33PsycoXul(hello, dr. nick!)
08:29:04Freekno ones talking, so i'm leaving
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08:43:26 Part jzoss ("Client exiting")
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09:49:28***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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13:49:35***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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15:57:44 Join LinusN [200] (
15:58:05LinusNjzoss: you can record FM radio with rockbox
15:58:13jzossreally? cool.
15:58:19LinusNjust turn on the radio, and then select Line In as the source
15:58:23jzossI didn't know. Sorry for spreading "false info". =)
15:58:32jzossDidn't realize it was a "free" byproduct
15:58:48LinusNthe FM radio is connected to the Line In
15:59:22jzossSo line-in and radio get mixed on top of each other? I see a "super karaoke mode" in our future. ;)
16:03:47Stevie-OI had a tar that accepted -j
16:03:49Stevie-Owhere did I put it
16:04:10jzossdid you check under the couch cushions? That's where I always lose stuff...
16:06:55Stevie-Owhere do I put the tools dir again?
16:07:06jzosssame dir level as apps and firmware
16:20:42jzossLinusN: Since I'm going to share your resize_file w/ id3.c code, I should move it to firmware. Where? file.c?? thx.
16:26:03 Join TBoy [0] (~xxx@
16:26:36TBoydamn finally when the radio is supported I don't have my FM
16:33:09TBoyLinusN you da man
16:33:20*TBoy pats LinusN on the back
16:34:51*LinusN is proud
16:35:01LinusNactually, it wasn't that hard
16:35:43jzossLinusN: Since I'm going to share your resize_file w/ id3.c code, I should move it to firmware. Where? file.c?? thx.
16:39:01LinusNwhy move it to firmware?
16:39:13jzossI thought firmware code (id3.c) wasn't supposed to call apps code?
16:39:30LinusNthat is true, but why would it?
16:39:51TBoyLinusN: Are you gonna make the freq steps in .01 mhz
16:39:58TBoyor 10khz
16:39:58jzosswrite_id3v2 needs to be able to resize_file (sometimes). Which is currently in apps/onplay.c
16:40:07LinusNaha, that is in onplay.c
16:40:10 Quit Stevie-O (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
16:40:20LinusNTBoy: 50kHz
16:40:27jzosss/resize file/insert_data_in_file
16:40:58LinusNjzoss: let me think about that
16:41:04LinusNi have to eat now, brb
16:41:06jzossno prob
16:41:10 Nick LinusN is now known as Linus|away (
16:41:44TBoywell I think that'll be ok
16:46:46 Nick seb-sleep is now known as _seb_ (
16:47:23 Quit TBoy ("Bye guys")
17:06:23 Join Nixed [0] (
17:06:24 Quit Nibbler (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
17:06:30Nixedgood morning.
17:06:55NixedAnyone here from rockbox? I have a question about a possible problem/bug.
17:07:09jzossgood morning! =)
17:07:17NixedHi jzoss.
17:07:26jzossso what's up?
17:07:42NixedMy Recorder 20... Everytime the battery power gets to 50%, the sound keeps cutting in and out.
17:07:55Nixedis this natural?
17:08:12jzoss?? no. Mine works all the way until it drains the batteries.
17:08:28jzossDoes the harddrive do strange things at low power?
17:08:42NixedSounds louder at lower power.
17:08:49jzossHave you tried plugging it into the wall when it's acting weird? Does that solve the problem?
17:09:11NixedYes, that solves it, but I get 5/6 hours at most off the batteries.
17:09:16jzossAssuming you haven't replaced the stock batteries, right?
17:09:27jzoss5/6hrs until you hit 50%, right?
17:09:32NixedThen at 50%, the battery start draining a lot more and sound goes in and out.
17:09:44NixedIt's still the original batteries.
17:09:59jzossDoes the harddrive spin alot more than normal when you're in "weird low-power mode"?
17:10:01NixedI've had it for a month almost
17:10:44Nixedjzoss - I'm not sure. I put the drive spindown up to 15 seconds (default 5), and it made it down to 40% before the proble happened, but the batteries seemed to last less.
17:11:15NixedI think for the norm, it does spin a lot when it's in "weird low-power mode"
17:11:24NixedThe red light stays on a bit more.
17:11:43jzossYah. Sounds like your batteries are draining faster than normal. And when they dip below some voltage, the harddrive has trouble keeping up.
17:11:48jzossJust guessing, though.
17:11:50NixedThen it'll keep playing the song, but the sound will go in and out.
17:12:22Nixedjzoss - How many hours do you get out of yours?
17:12:23jzossYou might try buying some new NiMH batteries and see if that solves the problem. But I'm just guessing.
17:12:29Nixedon battery.
17:12:49NixedI was thinking about doing that. they don't cost too much.
17:12:50jzossI get like 8-10 hrs on stock batteries, depending on how much I "play" with it while it's playing (dir browsing, track skipping, etc)
17:13:44NixedI noticed that powering it on and off takes a lot of juice.
17:14:14jzossYah. Every time you get a drive spinup, you can almost see the battery juice being sucked out. =)
17:15:05Nixedyep. I'm going to try changing the batteries if this continues. Maybe 1 or two are dead. Thanks for the suggestion.
17:15:25jzossno prob. good luck!
17:16:02Schnueff:q is nice :)
17:16:18jzossheh. wrong window. =)
17:16:36*Nixed stops laughing.
17:27:41*Stevie[FP] is back from [gone] [gone 17hrs 2mins 48secs] [KS]
17:42:55NixedIs it recommended that you have the battery charger plugged into the Archos when it's docked?
17:43:19Stevie[FP]for the FM recorder, I'd say yes
17:43:38jzossThere are some menu settings (Deep Discharge) that control behavior when it's plugged in for long periods of time
17:48:17 Part jzoss ("Client exiting")
17:49:42***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
17:50:54*Stevie[FP] is away [g0n3] [KS-MsgLog Off]
18:05:47 Nick Linus|away is now known as LinusN (
18:08:19 Join midknight2k3 [0] (
18:08:35midknight2k3hello whoever is here
18:08:53midknight2k3is there any discussion going on?
18:09:24midknight2k3i thought if i popped in early something ight be going on
18:09:35LinusNit's weekend
18:09:42LinusNlow acticity
18:10:01midknight2k3you mean you don't sit at your computers and veg on the weekend?
18:10:19LinusNexcept for the FM radio feature of course
18:10:52midknight2k3is that a joke?
18:11:17LinusNwhy would it be? the FM recorder has an FM tuner
18:11:49midknight2k3oh wait i get it never mind
18:12:11NixedQuick question. Does using a playlist run down the batteries more?
18:12:20LinusNnot really
18:12:46midknight2k3not with the way it's currently implemented
18:13:22NixedCool. Just wondering if having to go from one file in one directory to a file in another had the drive spin up more than usual.
18:13:31midknight2k3but i assume it would if you had files from different places (ie folders and subfolders)
18:13:33Nixedstupid question.
18:13:42LinusNthe extra power drain when seeking in the playlist file is negligible
18:13:52Nixedthat's what I though.
18:14:15NixedSo a 1000 song playlist will drain more battery.
18:14:37LinusNthe number of songs is irrelevant
18:14:55Nixedyes, but the location is.
18:15:12MTnot really
18:15:26LinusNyes, there are more accesses to the drive if the file is deep down in the dir tree
18:15:46LinusNbut the major power drain comes from spinning up the drive
18:15:47MTthe power consumption used to seek to a particular point on a disk is negligble compared to the power used to read a few megabytes off the disk
18:16:03MTor am i way off track
18:16:21midknight2k3wait, in the nodo document, #14 you mean you can't do a spectrum analyzer?
18:16:32LinusNwas it unclear?
18:16:43LinusNor is it still unclear?
18:16:45midknight2k3i just thought it was pretty possible
18:17:21midknight2k3if you can do a peak meter and an oscilloscope i thought you must be able to do a spectum analyzer
18:17:29midknight2k3but i suppose now
18:17:44LinusNthe peak meter and the oscilloscope samples the audio at about 1kHz
18:17:55LinusNno, 100Hz
18:18:49midknight2k3One thing that would be nice is an oscilloscope in the WPS
18:18:58LinusNyou would need at least 40000Hz for a decent frequency analyzer
18:19:03midknight2k3is that possible?
18:19:18LinusNcould be
18:19:54LinusNthe problem is not only the sound sampling, but also the screen updates
18:20:04LinusNthis baby is slow
18:20:14midknight2k3The peak meter is not too bad
18:20:24midknight2k3though it's a tiny bit off it works great
18:20:30LinusNwe put quite some work in it
18:21:07midknight2k3you did a good job
18:21:18MTLinusN: completely OT, but you do know much about cvs repository maintenance?
18:25:15Nixedthanks for the help
18:25:16 Part Nixed
18:27:48midknight2k3you also did an excellent job on wormlet
18:33:09LinusNyeah, that was langhaarrocker
18:40:15midknight2k3never could have imagined you could do something like that
18:47:34 Join Nibbler [0] (
18:56:44 Quit midknight2k3 ("borr-ing!")
19:02:57 Quit edx ()
19:05:03 Join tracktheripper [0] (
19:05:58 Join midknight2k3 [0] (
19:07:27tracktheripperhey midknight
19:07:54midknight2k3okay tell me now
19:08:04midknight2k3why do you always leave right in the middle of something?
19:08:19tracktheripperbecause I get bored of silence thats why
19:08:32tracktheripperusually here a few sentences are said then it goes dead for some reason :-(
19:08:53midknight2k3heh okay then if you keep talking of course i will
19:09:09tracktheripperlol im the only one who seems to talk here :-)
19:09:25midknight2k3im here a lot
19:09:32tracktheripperim looking forward to get my ADSL connection :-)
19:09:50midknight2k3what are you on right now?
19:10:16tracktheripperive just ordered ADSL
19:10:38tracktheripperI was gonna try the cable modem but ive read from a number of sources ADSL is better
19:10:47midknight2k3cable is very nice
19:11:15tracktheripperthe Achille's heel with cable is that you share your bandwidth with everyone else in your area
19:11:28tracktheripperif everyone is using Kazaa then it slows to sub-56k speeds
19:11:31midknight2k3not a problem i've often notices
19:11:48tracktheripperive used ADSL before and been very happy,
19:11:56tracktheripperso I decided to stick with ADSL
19:12:19 Join iBook [0] (
19:12:26 Part iBook ("Client Exiting")
19:12:37midknight2k3speaking of iBooks
19:13:20midknight2k3it's so annoying when people spell that stuff wrong... it's iPod, iBook, iMac not Ipod or Ibook or IMac or IPod
19:13:36tracktheripperBT Openworld kicked off 30,000 of its broadband subscribers
19:13:49midknight2k3the i is lowecase, next is capital and rest is lowecase
19:15:09tracktherippermidknight you not on NTL by any chance? they only let u download 1GB of data per day
19:15:31midknight2k3no way
19:15:57tracktheripperthat rather negates the point of broadband, that 1Gb limit
19:16:35midknight2k3it does
19:17:26Hescable performance varies a lot, depending on the size of the segments and user profile / channel usage
19:17:45midknight2k3but overall it's good
19:17:47Heshow much bandwidth is allocated per user, and if user traffic is throttled somehow.
19:17:50tracktheripperyea Hes, thats due to the bandwith being shared in an entire neighbourhood
19:18:11tracktheripperwith ADSL the connection is yours, its not shared
19:18:12HesSome operators / hardware get it right, some don't.
19:18:47HesI actually worked for an ISP, did technical implementations of DSL and cable access networks. Configured the actual routers providing the access.
19:18:57Hespretty interesting stuff.
19:19:31tracktheripperI wouldn't mind a 64Mb leased line
19:19:45midknight2k3This is a ROCKBOX channel.
19:19:54midknight2k3Not a 'discuss your new isp' channel.
19:20:00HesSlightly offtopic, yeah.
19:20:11Hesbetter than nothing, huh? 8-)
19:20:59*Hes is still dreaming of the CF card interface to the recorder
19:21:02tracktheripperit makes a change from those whinging about inverted video lines or ID3 tags :-)
19:21:24midknight2k3i'll be back in a little bit don't leave!
19:21:24tracktheripper<−−- is dreaming about putting a 500Gb tape drive in his Archos
19:21:38 Quit midknight2k3 ("be back very soon")
19:22:00HesHeh. I'm going for a few week's bike trip in the central europe next month and it would be useful if I could copy the photos to the recorder
19:22:22tracktheripperHes you cannot directly copy photos to the Archos without a PC
19:22:39HesNo, not on the USB
19:22:52Hesbut you could have two hard disk-like devices on the IDE/ATA bus.
19:22:55HesLike a CF.
19:23:01HesAnd rockbox could copy files between the two.
19:23:31Hesthere was a little discussion about this here a couple days ago.
19:23:51HesWould involve a little tricky hardware modification.
19:24:35tracktheripperlol Hes
19:25:01tracktheripperand could u modify it to put a 500Gb tape drive in it? (loadsa music!) :-)
19:25:39HesYes, but that would be more tricky. 8-)
19:25:52tracktheripperwould be cool :-)
19:25:59tracktheripper500Gb worth of MP3s and data :-)
19:27:07HesAny modification is possible, but the level of trickiness varies 8-)
19:27:09 Join Stevie-O [0] (
19:27:30tracktheripperI wonder what made the Archos so "hackable" compared to other MP3 players
19:28:09LinusNthey chose a very clever way of updating the firmware
19:28:36LinusNand their product attracted geeks
19:28:55tracktheripperlike yourself?
19:29:05LinusNi chose the archos because of their no-bullshit approach
19:29:24LinusNno silly custom programs for doanloading the music
19:29:26tracktheripperbut that would upset the record companies being non-SDMI compliant
19:29:39LinusNand it allows for general data storage
19:29:51tracktheripperCreative Playcenter rules the roost for MP3 and data! (not!)
19:30:55tracktheripperive had a Creative Labs Nomad once
19:30:59tracktherippernever again
19:32:01HesHi Linus. Great work on the FM tuner.
19:32:25tracktheripperHes, there is no "Fixed" in Feature Requests or Bugs for the FM tuner
19:34:06LinusNHes: thanks
19:35:08tracktheripperHes, does rockbox improve on the FM sound quality?
19:35:26LinusNi doubt it very much
19:35:49*Hes has nothing to do with the FM. I don't even have one 8-)
19:35:53tracktheripperwell i know rockbox impreves on the MP3 quality
19:36:50tracktheripperthe FM circuit is prob an afterthought
19:37:07LinusNwe should all thank Matthew P O'Reilly for the FM recorder support
19:37:48LinusNHe gave me an FM Recorder for my birthday, so I could work on it
19:37:59HesThat's a very valuable gift.
19:38:08HesFrom someone you don't actually know.
19:38:09Stevie-Ooh! cool
19:38:13LinusNhe is a true rockbox hero
19:38:25Stevie-OI got my FM for my birthday from my Dad
19:38:25LinusNi have never met him
19:38:32Stevie-Oniiice guy
19:38:36Stevie-Othey're not cheap
19:38:54Stevie-Onot in the least
19:38:59tracktheripperThe Achille's heel with the FM recorder is the fishy batteries
19:39:16LinusNStevie-O: i had it for 2 hours before i took it apart :-)
19:39:22Stevie-OLinusN: haha
19:39:25Stevie-Othe batteries aren't so much 'fishy' as significantly different
19:40:01tracktheripperyes but they are non-standard proprietory jobs and the charging is done by hardware, not software :-(#
19:40:14Stevie-Othe charging properties of Li-ions are somewhat opposite that of NiCd and NiMH
19:40:34Stevie-Owhile nicads and nimh's need to be discharged before recharging
19:40:38Stevie-Othe 'memory effect'
19:40:42Hesif the hardware charger actually works, we don't mind that being in hardware...
19:40:46tracktheripperok Linus, how does the FM recorder "feel" in the hand compared to the normal Recorder
19:40:51Stevie-OLi-ion batteries prefer being "topped off"
19:41:02Heseasier for us, no need to work on getting that done the Right Way.
19:41:03LinusNtracktheripper: it's much nicer, imho
19:41:08Stevie-Othat's why the FM recorder sucks power from every source it can, anytime it can
19:41:17Stevie-OAC adapter
19:41:20tracktheripperbut I feel the normal Recorder looks nicer
19:41:34LinusNi think the fm looks better
19:41:51LinusNbut ithas technical issues i can't stand
19:42:02tracktheripperbut at least the normal Rec looks like an MP3 player
19:42:05LinusNno digital out and no remote
19:42:24Stevie-OI was wondering what the 'remote' you guys referred to was
19:42:49tracktheripperthe FM rec looks like a melted Ipod
19:43:29Stevie-Omy dad has a Player
19:43:37Stevie-Ocharacter-cell based crap SUCKS
19:43:40Stevie-Ooh, Linus!
19:43:51Stevie-O(keep in mind, he got it a few years ago for his bd)
19:44:01Stevie-Olinus, did you check out my menutest build?
19:44:23tracktheripperLinus why don't you remove the Player rockbox altogether?
19:44:37Stevie-Owe can't leave those poor souls behind
19:44:54Stevie-Othey'd wither and die on the original Archos firmware
19:45:27Stevie-Olast friday I was given an FM for my bday
19:45:31tracktheripperand why oh why did they put a Line In on the Player when its just for show?!??!
19:45:39Stevie-Olast saturday I had already crashed it once
19:45:54Stevie-Owith a long filename and a very full id3 tag
19:46:10tracktheripperdid rockbox rectify that?
19:46:28Stevie-Ohell yeah
19:46:33Stevie-Oits id3 handling is so much better
19:46:46Stevie-OI only had the thing 1 day and I saw severe display corruption
19:46:55tracktheripperperhaps Bjorn and co should now work for Archos........
19:47:15Stevie-Othe original Archos firmware supported a max of 999 files+dirs in one shot
19:47:20 Nick LinusN is now known as LinusN|away (
19:47:27Stevie-Ocome back soon Linus!
19:47:46Stevie-OI wonder if it didn't also make sure it limited the number of bytes
19:47:49Stevie-Oand that's why it crashed
19:49:46***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
19:51:31 Quit tracktheripper ("Leaving")
19:56:02 Join kremlar [0] (
19:56:57Stevie-Osup kremlar
20:08:16kremlarsince rockbox isn't doing archos multimedia firmware, are there any known groups that are?
20:38:57 Join edx [0] (
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20:46:44 Join tracktheripper [0] (
20:47:44 Join SeanL994 [0] (
20:48:37SeanL994i bought a 20gb archos PLAYER from ebay the otherday( i dont have it yet) and i was wondering what i should know about the rockbox? it seems like it was 'made' for the 20gb Recorder model.. but how is it on the player?
20:50:14tracktheripperwhilst its an improvement over the Archos firmware, it won't have as many features as the Recorder rockbox
20:50:59SeanL994so is it worth it?
20:51:37SeanL994so.. i cant play doom or tetris?(just wondering)
20:52:28tracktheripperNo games
20:52:38SeanL994heh bummer
20:53:10tracktheripperwhat do you expect with only 22 character cells?
20:53:12SeanL994i have seen MANY pictures of the actuall screen of the recorder version of the archos.. and i have seen pics of the studio one.. they are sooo different
20:53:28tracktheripperyea, the Recorder has a full dot-matrix screen
20:53:33tracktherippernot limited to 22 character cells
20:53:37SeanL994i got srewed..
20:53:47tracktheripperyou should refund your Player and get a Recorder immediatly
20:53:59SeanL994i payed $175 do you think that i got ripped off?
20:54:22 Join DJcairo [0] (
20:54:27tracktheripperyea since the Recorder is only slightly more
20:54:38DJcairowhats up
20:54:43SeanL994well. that sucks.. i'm ma
20:55:16SeanL994but.. is the sound quality? User interface all the same?besides the 22 character limit?
20:55:21DJcairoanybody know of a way to just import my entire library from musicmatch over into the archos fm recorder?
20:55:32DJcairofinding all the tracks that are scattered around my computer is a pain
20:55:40DJcairobut they are all tagged in the library
20:55:49tracktheripperSould quality and build quality isn't as good, and the interface is very hard to use on the player
20:56:06SeanL994press Windows key+F search for *.mp3
20:56:14tracktheripperyou shot yourself in the foot buying a Player
20:56:20SeanL994oh.. ok ripper.. i hope i can return tthis thing
20:56:39DJcairoisa there anyway for the archos to detect whioch new tracks have been added to your windows system?
20:56:40tracktheripperwell sorry to be blunt, but there you go
20:56:43DJcairolike the ipod will do?
20:56:51tracktheripperNo DJ
20:56:59tracktheripperyou have to manually export the tracks yourself
20:57:19DJcairotoo bad
20:57:30tracktheripperthis is because the Archos just functions like a plain hard drive when hooked up to ur PC
20:57:42DJcairoi mean i know i saved some money buying it but the amount of time I'm spending organizing my music is insane
20:57:43 Quit kremlar (Connection timed out)
20:57:43SeanL994ok.. i understand your hatred for the player version.. but what if this is just going to be mainly in my car? with random on.. basicly does it matter?
20:58:22tracktheripperSean, I do not "hate the player", im just saying its a more primative unit than the Recorder, If you want it for car use it should be fine
20:58:28SeanL994(i didnt want to spend over $200 on a mp3 player period.. thats why i went with the player version
20:58:31DJcairoanything cool in teh new rockbox builds?
20:58:51tracktheripperDJ Check out Feature Requests and the docs page for details
20:58:55DJcairoi have 2.0 inctalled
20:58:56SeanL994ok ripper sounds fine to me then lol.. i'm used to 'not having the best of the best'
20:59:01 Join jzoss [0] (
20:59:30tracktheripperhey Jzoss
20:59:37DBUGEnqueued KICK jzoss
20:59:37jzoss14howdy =)
21:00:10SeanL994where can i get detailed pics of the user interface of the player?
21:00:21jzoss14The manual?
21:00:35SeanL994(dont have it ye)
21:01:06tracktheripperwell Sean have you seen a pic of the Player's LCD?
21:01:17***Alert Mode level 1
21:01:17jzoss14nono...I wasn't being glib. Rockbox has a manual.
21:01:22SeanL994just 1 or maybe 2
21:01:35tracktheripperJzoss can you change your color, i can't read it
21:02:12SeanL994i couldnt really tell.. i wanna see what the browsing feature.. like ok... i have 198 albums (17 gigs) is it gonna suck finding an album i want?
21:02:31tracktheripperwell its gonna be hard with just 22 character cells
21:02:40SeanL994does it scroll at least?
21:02:47tracktheripperplus you use LEFT and RIGHT to move UP and DOWN in the menus
21:03:37tracktheripperyea Sean ID3 tags do scroll
21:03:40tracktheripperand filenames
21:03:43SeanL994TELL me there is a RANDOM feature on this thing! thats why i got it "200 disc changer in the car"
21:03:54SeanL994yea. i figured that
21:04:19tracktheripperSean there is a Shuffle mode, but it only works in a playlist or in the folder that you are "in" when Shuffle is activated
21:04:33tracktheripperShuffle will not shuffle across all folders unless you make up a huge playlist
21:04:46SeanL994oh.. so i could just make a playlist of all the albums?thats easy enough
21:04:50jzossrockbox manual covers alot of these UI issues...
21:05:13SeanL994that site doesnt work :(
21:05:17jzoss(with screenshots! =)
21:05:48jzosswhoops. bad URL. Try this:
21:05:50SeanL994that site doesnt work
21:06:09 Part DJcairo
21:06:20jzossarrr. I mean
21:06:26tracktheripperSean the Recorder has a very useful "Screen Invert" mode
21:06:29jzossStupid copy/paste.... ARrrr...
21:06:52SeanL994i might sell this on ebay.. and buy the recorder version from circuit city, my friend works there. he gets stuff at 'cost' what would you guess it will be?
21:07:26SeanL994oh yea.. that pdf makes me depressed lol... looking at the 'file browser for the player model and the recorder modle
21:07:39jzossyah. Seeing is believing
21:08:12SeanL994i mean.. damnit.. my TDK MoJo has a better screen then that player model
21:08:42tracktheripperSean the Recorder's screen colours can be reversed
21:08:47tracktheripperwhite text on black background
21:09:23SeanL994oh! badass
21:09:39tracktheripperlooks great at night with the backlight oin
21:10:28SeanL994well it'll be velcro'd to my dash.. or hiding under my seat in the car.. so either way heh i wont be looking at it i'll be looking at the road ;)
21:11:18***Alert Mode OFF
21:12:51 Quit tracktheripper ("Leaving")
21:16:40SeanL994OH..great ripper left.. i have one more question.. i hope somone else can answer!
21:17:13SeanL994does the 20gb Player model have usb 2.0? i read reviews.. people say that it DOES.. but on the site it says 1.1 whats the deal?please
21:17:34SeanL994and.. if it is 1.1 how long is it gonna take to transfew 17 gigs of mp3s?
21:19:45jzossI dunno about player models... recorder20 definitely is USB2.0
21:20:02SeanL994shoot.. i'm gonna be so pissed if its not 2.0
21:20:15jzossUSB1.1 will take A WHILE to transfer that much data.
21:20:28SeanL994like 20 hours or so
21:20:41jzossI did my first transfer (only a few gigs), and it took well over an hour, if I remember right.
21:20:48jzossI forget the exact transfer rates.
21:20:59SeanL994for the recorder?or player?
21:21:23 Quit ken0 (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
21:21:38jzossrecorder, but over USB1.1. Transfer rate is same for either device over USB1.1
21:22:37jzossOn the flip side, my recorder (a rec15) was originally USB1, but the one I bought had a sticker slapped on the box that said USB2.0!
21:22:46jzossAnd indeed, they'd upgraded the chip inside to usb2.
21:22:51SeanL994yea .. i'm gonnna go with plan B.. sell it on ebay and buy at CC with discount
21:22:51jzossI bought that a few months ago.
21:22:56jzossSo maybe you'll luck out.
21:23:06SeanL994oh ok
21:23:10jzossI think the recorder is a much nicer unit, though, if you can swing the extra cash.
21:23:14 Quit Stevie-O (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:24:04SeanL994i have a feeling i can get it from CC for about the same price as i paid
21:24:34SeanL994my parents alredy think i'm an ass (yes i'm just 17) for buying a mp3 player for (almost) 200 bucks
21:25:11jzossyah. My rec15 was $180
21:25:33SeanL994from where?
21:25:42SeanL994eh 15 gigs wouldnt be enough for me :(
21:26:17SeanL994thats only like 18-19 mp3 cd's
21:27:01jzosscircuit city
21:27:16jzossYou realize you don't *have* to store all your music on the unit, right?
21:27:20SeanL994oh.. cc doesnt sell the 15 gig (that i know of)
21:27:27SeanL994but i want to
21:27:36jzossYou can't keep track of 20Gigs of music at one time. Sheesh!
21:27:50SeanL994200 disc changer in my ca
21:28:07jzossheh. Well this'll be a little bit more portable than that
21:28:24SeanL994no i mean. i'll have 200 disc's on the archos
21:28:38SeanL994i have all full albums on my comp about 200 of them only 17 gigs
21:29:48SeanL994thus giving me a 200 disc changer in the car :)
21:30:33SeanL994ok then. catch ya later.
21:30:38SeanL994i might check back here when i get the unit
21:31:05jzossgood luck!
21:31:19SeanL994at least tell me i made the right choice by getting the 'player version' over the RIO RIOT?
21:38:35jzossI like the archos units, player or recorder over other options.
21:38:49jzossstd USB-harddrive interface is a plus, and rockbox is a bigger plus
21:39:17SeanL994oh yea.. i forgot.. but.. should i use rockbox with the player? or just stick with the original?
21:39:33SeanL994i know when i get the recorder one i will definitly use rockbox
21:39:50jzossIt wouldn't hurt to try it.
21:40:02jzossYou can always revert back to the original firmware. It's trivial
21:40:22SeanL994ok sounds good. i'm off to CC now i gotta see what kind of discount i can get
21:40:44 Quit SeanL994 ()
21:49:50***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21:53:44 Part LinusN|away
22:08:28 Join Nibbler [0] (
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23:01:25 Quit Nibbler (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
23:05:01 Join midknight2k3 [0] (
23:05:14midknight2k3well im back
23:11:44Stevie-Owell wb
23:12:50midknight2k3heh wow thanks!
23:15:34midknight2k3well im gone
23:15:36 Quit midknight2k3 ()
23:49:54***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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23:58:48 Quit Stevie-O (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))

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