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#rockbox log for 2003-05-20

00:00:54Stevie[FP]i don't get this
00:01:14Stevie[FP]shouldn't the presence of a CRC add two bytes to the frame?
00:04:15hardeepit does doesn't it? (a 2 byte checksum following the frame header)
00:05:40Stevie[FP]it appears it does not
00:05:50Stevie[FP]so to add crcs to an existing mp3
00:06:29Stevie[FP]you'd have to basically decode and re-encode (at a higher bitrate, to make room for the 2 extra bytes per frame))
00:10:33_aLFwhat is the interest of CRC ?
00:10:59 Quit tracktheripper ("Leaving")
00:29:21 Join LinusN [200] (
00:29:22 Quit Nibbler (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:29:36 Part LinusN
00:29:53Stevie[FP]he didn't stay long :-o
00:34:43 Join tracktheripper [0] (
00:52:56tracktheripperwhat is a Xing header>!>!
00:53:53tracktheripperapart from a totally daft name?!
01:02:58 Join LinusN [200] (
01:03:24LinusNa xing header is a fake MP3 frame containing info about the VBR stream
01:03:59LinusNthe format for this particular information frame was developed/specified by the Xing corporation
01:04:54LinusNit contains the number of frames in the stream, the total size (in bytes) of the stream, and optionally a Table Of Contents
01:05:50LinusNthe TOC is a table of 100 seek points to seek withing the stream, where each point represents one percent
01:06:28LinusN"Update VBR file" scans the file and recreates the Xing header
01:14:04tracktheripperLinus why is that MP3 files can have ID3 tags but WAV files cannot?!
01:14:39LinusNbecause WAV is a different file format
01:15:07LinusNtechnically, you can add ID3 info to a WAV file, but there are no WAV file readers that can handle it
01:15:17tracktheripperoh righty
01:15:22LinusNID3 was developed for MP3 files
01:15:36tracktheripperohh i see
01:15:47LinusNtracktheripper: what makes you think that DAB would be possible on the FM?
01:15:57tracktheripper((runs off into the distance))
01:17:10tracktheripperjust write code that deciphers DAB
01:17:24LinusNi know that you can't possibly know all technical details about the hardware, but since you hang around on IRC, why not ask here first before polluting the feature request tracker
01:19:34tracktheripperwhat gets me is that Soundforge, Windows Media Player are all software players and recorders etc. Why can't the Archos have a software decoder?!
01:20:14LinusNbecause the CPU is slow as hell
01:20:28LinusNand because there is no D/A converter to play the sound with
01:20:37 Join elinenbe [0] (
01:21:06tracktheripperwell Soundforge doesn't have a hardware d/a converter
01:21:13tracktheripperit runs on any modern PC
01:21:15LinusNa 12MHz SH1 can't really compete with a 500MHz Pentium
01:21:37LinusNtracktheripper: you have a sound card, don't you?
01:21:47LinusNthat is your D/A
01:21:49tracktherippera Turtle Beach Santa Cruz soundcard
01:22:37LinusNthe MAS has a 2-channel D/A, but the SH1 can't use it
01:23:19tracktheripperso the device will never do wma or atrac3
01:23:37LinusNno, we have been trying to tell people that for ages
01:24:14tracktheripperyou should remove the "Codecs" from Sourceforge then
01:24:42 Join Scorp [0] (
01:24:44LinusNyes, but Sourceforce doesn't allow us to delete categories
01:25:00LinusNalmost nothing can be deleted
01:25:00Scorpguys I havea question, does the Archos Jukebox Studio 20 atleast have a MIC in?
01:25:05Scorpor can it not record at all?
01:25:27LinusNthe MP3 chip is different, with no recording capability
01:25:31Scorpis that a no to me?
01:25:33Scorpoh :(
01:25:44ScorpI should've just gotten the 15 gig recorder blah
01:25:59LinusNyes, for the sound quality too
01:26:17LinusNand the LCD, and the RTC, and the games
01:26:23Scorpahh crap
01:26:25Scorpdamn it
01:26:29ScorpI should've come here before I ordered
01:26:42ScorpGreetings from
01:26:42ScorpWe thought you'd like to know that we shipped your items today, and that this completes your order.
01:26:44DBUGEnqueued KICK Scorp
01:26:52LinusNpity, can't you return it?
01:27:00Scorpit's from Amazon
01:27:04tracktheripperLinusN why don't u reprogram the firmware for the player to make the LCD like the recorder?
01:27:19LinusNtracktheripper: don't make me hit you :-)
01:27:21Scorptracktheripper: I think because the LCD on the player doesn't support pixels
01:27:38ScorpI maybe wrong, but I'll find out in less than 6 days :(
01:27:50LinusNScorp: how is it delivered?
01:28:08ScorpFree Shipping from Amazon
01:28:32tracktheripperyes it does
01:28:35LinusNi donät know about Amazon's policy, but there must be a way to trade up to the rec15
01:28:38tracktherippertheres 22 character cells
01:28:48tracktherippereach with 35 pixels.......
01:29:04LinusNtracktheripper: we've been through this already
01:29:21Scorptracktheripper the FAQ gives a reason, I don't remember it
01:29:36tracktheripperi suppose so
01:29:37ScorpI'm so damn excited I updated all the tags on my MP3s and read most docs on the rockbox site
01:29:50LinusNwe have no control over the individual pixels on the Player LCD
01:29:51Scorpand I don't even own an Archos product yet
01:29:59LinusNScorp: nice
01:30:02CtcpIgnored 2 channel CTCP requests in 1 hour and 31 minutes at the last flood
01:30:02*Stevie[FP] is away [(Auto-Away after 1hr)] [KS-MsgLog Off]
01:30:06tracktheripper"the player may work if you can squeeze an entire cover into one of the player's character cells....."
01:30:14ScorpLinusN I'm also learning to code with this baby ;)
01:30:23LinusNScorp: kickass!
01:30:37ScorpBy the way since the only Linux I have is my mac laptop running Gentoo did anyone get this to work using gentoo?
01:31:03ScorpI know there is a linux patch, but are there any people who got it to work with gentoo?
01:31:07LinusNScorp: i don't know, but i can't see a reason why it wouldn't work
01:31:25ScorpLinusN: ok good, I just want my player already
01:31:26LinusNwhat patch, and why?
01:31:32Scorp20 gigs is bigger than my harddrive ;)
01:31:39LinusNi have 40
01:31:43ScorpLinusN at the site the last link says "Linux Patch"
01:31:54ScorpLinusN: is it a standard laptop hdd in there?
01:32:13LinusNyes, that is a patch for unlocking the HD if it is accidentally locked
01:32:21LinusNnothing you'll need
01:32:23Scorpwhat do you mean if it is Locked?
01:32:30Scorpoh ok
01:32:36LinusNyes, a standard 2.5" 9mm laptop drive
01:32:46Scorpoh man I want mine
01:33:15LinusNScorp: question #22 in the FAQ
01:33:43ScorpI didn't memorize the FAQ :( (..yet)
01:33:59LinusNScorp: i definitely think you should try to return the player and get a recorder instead
01:34:12ScorpDamn it
01:34:13tracktheripperwell as long as it works....
01:34:16LinusNthe recorder is so muchh better
01:34:21Scorpbut then it'll be 15 gigs instead of the 20 gigs
01:34:22tracktheripperi have a recorder :P
01:34:45LinusNScorp: don't mind the gigs, you can replace the HD if you run out of space
01:34:48Scorpwell why would I need the recorder? I won't play games on it, and I won't use it to record anyways
01:34:50tracktherippermine has a massive 10gb
01:34:52LinusNthe recorder is USB2.0 too
01:35:02ScorpOh that's a problem I don't have USB2 on my PC
01:35:08LinusNand much, much better sound quality
01:35:17ScorpLinusN even with Rockbox?
01:35:28LinusNUSB2.0 PCI cards are cheap
01:35:36LinusNScorp: of course with rockbox
01:35:38Scorpyeah but I spent my last 200 on the player
01:35:53ScorpAll my birthday money...
01:36:02tracktheripperi want an FM recorder
01:36:17ScorpI'll play around with the player, if I don't like it I'll try to send it back and ask them to upgrade me to a recorder
01:36:44ScorpI think it should be enough anyways
01:36:50LinusNyou'll have a better chance if you return it unused
01:37:04ScorpI have a way of making things look "unused"
01:37:24LinusNyou won't regret it
01:37:50tracktheripperLinusN the player should sound the same as the recorder
01:37:52LinusNi purchased a player first
01:37:54tracktheripperit just does not record
01:37:58 Join BoD[] [0] (
01:38:00Scorpthat way is ofcourse making sure the box is carefully opened and just as carefully closed, with the shrinkwrap replaced ;)
01:38:04LinusNtracktheripper: you haven't compared have you?
01:38:10BoD[]yo !
01:38:17tracktheripperthey both use the MAS Chip?
01:38:18LinusNBoD[]: yo
01:38:23tracktheripperthe same mas chip?
01:38:41LinusNtracktheripper: the Player has a different MAS chip
01:39:26LinusNwith only a simple bass/treble control, no AVC, no superbass, no loudness
01:39:38LinusNno peak meters
01:39:41tracktheripperno realizer :-(
01:39:53Scorpwell I'll see what it's like
01:39:58Scorpthey shipped it today
01:40:11Scorpso I'll have to wait until 5-9 days more :(
01:40:11tracktheripperi want realizer support
01:40:26Scorpthat and I know a guy who has a recorder in my school, so I'll compare
01:40:30LinusNScorp: the deliver it with a horse wagon?
01:40:44ScorpLinusN I would thinkso, 5-9 days is crazy
01:40:44LinusN5-9 days!!!
01:40:48Scorpbut it's free shipping
01:40:58tracktherippera "realized" song really has more thump and zing :-)
01:41:25ScorpLinusN I think they handcraft the player and then carry it on foot to my house or something
01:41:32Scorp9 days, I better have my player by friday!
01:41:43LinusNit took 3 days to ship my FM recorder from US to Sweden
01:41:58Scorpbut you probably paid extra for shipping
01:42:00LinusN(it took 2 more days to clear customs)
01:42:18LinusNScorp: Fedex...
01:42:54Scorpthe first person who figures out how to email a physical object will probably be one rich SOB ;)
01:43:06LinusNi have a player, a recorder and an fm recorder
01:43:21tracktheripperlinus i want ur fm rec
01:43:23PsycoXulScorp: spintronics
01:43:50LightGOd20i kinda need some help...
01:43:51LinusNtracktheripper: i never use it, but i need it for developing
01:43:59Scorpdamn I'll probably continue upgrading if I fall in love with the player, I may even write some small programs for the player, like a txt based calculator heh ( I haven;t figured out how it'll work yet lol)
01:44:00tracktheripperis FM any good?
01:44:03PsycoXulfirst you align and phase-lock your object, then you tip their spins which propagate down the line to the end point where the spins line back up like the original object and then dephase and there you go
01:44:03LinusNLightGOd20: shoot
01:44:10LightGOd20i just got a jukebox 5000 charged up the batteries and try to boot it up.. but it just keeps on shutting down...
01:44:18LightGOd20it works fine when it's plugged in
01:44:26LinusNtracktheripper: the reception?
01:44:27LightGOd20but i've tried another set of batteries and i get the same problem
01:45:15LightGOd20just wont boot..
01:45:23LinusNtracktheripper: it's pretty sensitive, but i think it's good
01:45:33ScorpLightGOd20 even with the standard BIOS?
01:45:42Scorperm default firmware I meant
01:45:43LightGOd20but if i hold the ON button while playing songs it works fine.. and as soon i let go i shuts down
01:45:48LinusNLightGOd20: sounds like a battery problem, but it might be a connector prob too, check the battery springs
01:45:53LightGOd20yeap standard bios
01:46:04LightGOd20i did already
01:46:18LinusNdoes it charge?
01:46:19BoD[]lightgod20: it plays songs ? then it boots!
01:46:26LightGOd20the odd thing is that as long as i hold down the ON button it works fine
01:46:29***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:46:39LinusNLightGOd20: sounds like ou fried something
01:47:07LightGOd20yeah.. but how.. i just gt it... never used it before..
01:47:07ScorpLightGOd20: there is your problem probably there is something wrong with the ON button, unless it works when the charge is in and the on button isn't down aswell
01:47:29ScorpLightGOd20: send it back to archos let em deal with it ;)
01:47:30LightGOd20well while it's charging it works normally
01:47:44LightGOd20yeap.. the problem is.... i'm in Argentina
01:48:05BoD[]open it and resolder the back :)
01:48:06LinusNLightGOd20: oh, argentina, On buttons never work in Argentina
01:48:36LightGOd20linusn yeahh maybe that's the reason..
01:49:00elinenbeLinusN: do you know what the largest size font that can be used is?
01:49:03ScorpLightGOd20: have you tried driving accross the border into a diffrent country, see if that solves the problem? (joke)
01:49:16LinusNLightGOd20: it may be a grounding problem. have you dropped it recently?
01:49:24LinusNelinenbe: 16 pixels
01:49:36LightGOd20no no.. nothing happened to the player,..
01:49:56LightGOd20and it works fine when charging,,,
01:49:58Scorpby the way guys I know it has 2mbs of ram but if I try jogging with the player will it skip?
01:50:00LinusNseveral people have had problems with bad soldering on the jukebox
01:50:12LinusNScorp: keep it in yoour hand
01:50:23LinusNthe hard drive is sensitive
01:50:30tracktherippermy JB never skips when running
01:50:31Scorpwhile jogging?
01:50:31LightGOd20ok.. but then how to you explain the fact that as long as i hold down the ON buton it plays songs..
01:50:56LinusNLightGOd20: because the ON button grounds it?
01:51:09elinenbehmmm.... what is keeping it from supporting up to larger pixels?
01:51:27LinusNthe lcd_bitmap() function
01:51:47BoD[]really, i
01:51:53BoD[]have similar problems
01:51:57 Quit tracktheripper ("Leaving")
01:51:59LightGOd20linusn: i don't know... but it seems to be something involvng the on button..
01:52:03LinusNi gotta go now
01:52:08BoD[]with on buttons and everything, and it is a soldering problem
01:52:29LinusNtime to sleep, 2AM here
01:52:35 Part LinusN
01:52:40LightGOd20bod: but in order to fix it i gotta open it..
01:52:57_aLFgood night
01:53:00LightGOd20and that will void my warranty...
01:53:08 Quit _aLF ("+")
01:53:35Scorpwould it be possible to code something for the JB that allows text input? Like an onscreen display which gives you a selection of letters to scroll through and then you push a button to have that letter appear and then you can push something else to save it as a file (y/n) ?
01:53:51LightGOd20bod: did you manage to fix the problem yourself?
01:54:03BoD[]light: if you care for your warranty then send it back :)
01:54:11BoD[]otherwise, it's really useless!
01:54:33BoD[]i opened it and soldered it ...... then it unsoldered again and I never fixed it
01:54:54BoD[]now it reboots very frequently I have to solder it again but I'm too lazy
01:55:55ScorpI know it's a lame idea but it could be useful :-/
01:55:58LightGOd20well.. mine doesn't just shuts down
01:57:20BoD[]scorp : imho it's possible
01:57:50LightGOd20bod: where exactly was the soldering problem?
01:57:51ScorpBoD[] on the player?
01:58:04BoD[]scorp : of course !
01:58:30BoD[]light : do you have a fix font ?
01:59:31Scorpcould it be that LightGOd20 has screwed up firmware? maybe upgrade to the latest one from archos?
01:59:38Scorpor is this 100& hardware problem?
01:59:46BoD[]well cutnpaste this in something with a fix font :
02:00:14LightGOd20well i've tried archos update, rockbox 2.0 and the original firmware... and i still get the same error
02:00:24BoD[]top O−−-O
02:00:24BoD[] | |
02:00:24BoD[] | |
02:00:24DBUGEnqueued KICK BoD[]
02:00:24BoD[]bottom O−−-O <- there
02:01:14BoD[]do you see what i mean ? :)
02:01:32Scorpare you going to show him how to soldier his player via ASCII ?
02:02:10LightGOd20yeah.. try something else.. like jpg.. otherwise i think i'm gonna realy screw things up ;)
02:02:10BoD[]no! i just showed him where "solder weakness" was
02:02:48BoD[]well it's simple really! there is a "plate" or something i don't know the word
02:02:56BoD[]in the bottom of the archos
02:03:06LightGOd20ahh ok
02:03:06BoD[]where the battery make "pressure" on it
02:03:17BoD[]so it desolders itself
02:03:26Scorpyeah you'll see a chip that looks like this: o next to it is a wire that looks like this - just fuse this wire to a red wire that looks like this "−−-" nothing to it!
02:04:13BoD[]noooo really it's obvious !
02:04:18LightGOd20ok.... now i'd better look at some pics of the archos' board..
02:04:33BoD[]you'll open it and you'll see what is not soldered
02:05:02LightGOd20so are you 100% positive it's not something else?
02:05:26ScorpLightGOd20: If I were you I'd send it to Archos unless you're good with electronics
02:05:37LightGOd20cuz.. really i can't afford a new jukebox...
02:05:49 Join SheriffFruitfly [0] (
02:06:22SheriffFruitflyhello? (new to irc.....)
02:06:41Scorphello comrade!
02:06:47Scorpwelcome to communist irc channel
02:06:51Scorphere we share everything
02:06:56BoD[]light : i'm absolutly NOT positive it's not something else
02:07:04Scorpfrom ones abilities to his need
02:07:07BoD[]i just say, i had the same symptoms
02:07:14BoD[]and it was unsoldered
02:07:22LightGOd20well thanks...
02:07:25Scorp(I'm just kidding, hi SheriffFruitfly)
02:07:30BoD[]now... consider the fact that my unit still DOESN't work :))
02:07:35LightGOd20i think i'm gonna follow your advice..
02:07:41LightGOd20ohh ok
02:07:50LightGOd20i just changed my mind ;)
02:08:01SheriffFruitflydunno how to whisper, scorp... sorry - lol
02:08:12Scorp/msg <nickname>
02:08:17Scorp/msg <nickname> <text>
02:09:31BoD[]light : look at this :
02:10:03BoD[]red circles show what was unsoldered on my unit
02:10:34LightGOd20ok.. thanks.. i'm loking at it right now
02:11:00 Join Nibbler [0] (
02:12:47SheriffFruitflywas just curious - are any of the rockbox devs involved in the linux/ipod thing, or is everyone staunch archos supporters?
02:13:21Scorplinux ipod have nothing in common?
02:13:45SheriffFruitflycept that they've put linux on an ipod.....
02:13:52Scorpoh yeah that too
02:14:01Scorpbut iPods are an apple product
02:14:10SheriffFruitflyyou speak the truth
02:14:11BoD[]sheriff: i think there is no rockbox people involved in the linux/ipod thing
02:14:12Scorpand everyone knows my HO on apple :(
02:14:58SheriffFruitflyjust curious...... sorry - didn't mean to hijack the topic......
02:15:07ScorpBoD[] do you think it makes sense for the average user like me to go from player to recorder at the extra price?
02:15:45SheriffFruitflyScorp - do yo u urself day in day out wishing you had the recording capability?
02:16:00ScorpSheriffFruitfly: nope
02:16:08Scorpbut it's a better LCD and better player overall I think
02:16:13SheriffFruitflythere's ur answer, i would think - lol
02:16:43Scorpif I need a recorder I'll pay $20 and get a small tape recorder which I'll feed into my PC and then into my archos if necessary but I rarely need to record things
02:16:52Scorpand can probably live with out it
02:17:22ScorpI used to need to record my lectures but I won't have any next year anyways
02:17:27Scorpnow that I'm done with AP Art History
02:17:58SheriffFruitflythen, other than satisfying the desire to be technologically up-to-date (which is totally valid), why spend a few hundred <currency> ?
02:18:13SheriffFruitflygod that musta sucked (AP art history)
02:18:34ScorpSheriffFruitfly: you're making sense, hence I must do the opposite :) jk.
02:18:42SheriffFruitflystory of my life
02:18:43BoD[]what is the extra price
02:18:43Scorpno, Art History was, suprisingly enough, kind of fun.
02:19:12SheriffFruitflyalways seemed like just memorizing lotsa pix/paintings/etc
02:19:12ScorpBoD I'd have to send my player back, pay for S&H and then pay probably the extra $65 to get the recorder
02:19:17Scorpwhich is probably not worth it anyways
02:19:23ScorpSheriffFruitfly: not at all
02:19:31SheriffFruitflyo - then kewl
02:19:44SheriffFruitflyjust a warning - that's wut it's like in college - lol
02:20:02BoD[]no no really it's not worth it
02:20:03Scorpbecause most art is inpsired by art before it, you can look at a painting tell what it's like where it came from and what kind it is
02:20:19BoD[]i have a recorder
02:20:20ScorpBoD[]: and the sound quality diffrence is there any really, or any significant diffrence?
02:20:23BoD[]i never record anything !
02:20:43BoD[]the sound quality... well I don't know. never heard a player..
02:21:04BoD[]i always thought the sound quality of the recorder was great
02:21:19BoD[]but i'm far from being a specialist
02:21:43Scorpwell if the diffrence is the same as it is between an MP3 and an OGG then I don't care
02:21:44SheriffFruitflywhy would there be a difference? (here's why there wouldn't be: extra production cost)
02:22:08ScorpSheriffFruitfly: there was a guy here a few minutes ago who claimed that the recorder has a better chip
02:22:17Scorpand I think he was a rockbox developer
02:22:19BoD[]yes the chips are different :)
02:22:23BoD[]but still
02:22:31BoD[]i mean... if you're rich
02:22:35BoD[]get an ipod :))
02:22:38Scorpno way
02:22:42ScorpI'm not selling my soul to apple
02:22:51SheriffFruitflybut you will to M$?
02:22:52BoD[]if not... don't bother buying a recorder if you have a player
02:23:05ScorpI have an PowerBook G3 (it was a gift) and it runs Gentoo because I hate OS X
02:23:12ScorpSheriffFruitfly: yeah, MS software is easier to pirate :)
02:23:18SheriffFruitflytroo dat!
02:23:26BoD[]well I have to tell you ... i'd rather buy from apple 1000000x than buy from archos
02:23:32BoD[]i don't like them !
02:23:34Scorpthat and FreeBSD doesn't run well on this computer
02:23:44SheriffFruitflyi would too, if it just wasn't so damn expensive......
02:24:00Scorpyeah but I'm only 16 (as of may 14th, hence the purchase is with birthday money) and I can't afford an iPOD and I don't want to buy a firewire card
02:24:40SheriffFruitflyspend the money on something worthwhile - like a..... um......
02:24:46BoD[]ok but my advice is
02:24:46Scorpand I'm far from rich - unfortunately
02:24:49SheriffFruitflyvideo card!
02:24:54BoD[]keep your money
02:25:02BoD[]and later, you'll buy something better :)
02:25:06Scorpthey shipped the player today already so blah
02:25:11BoD[]but of course that's just my opinion
02:25:49ScorpI'm surprised MS didn't come out with an MP3 player, hdd based
02:26:00Scorpthey make good hardware, as far as I know....
02:26:05BoD[]very true
02:26:22SheriffFruitflymouse is only thing i know/like - can't stand the damn broken keyboards.....
02:26:23CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
02:26:23*Scorp uses a MS Mouse, a Linux OS, and an Apple Laptop
02:26:37SheriffFruitflybut nice mousey tho.....
02:26:48Scorpoh the kb was ok, I didn't care much, broken in 2 or not
02:26:58SheriffFruitflybah - hate that
02:27:07SheriffFruitflyimpedes my smoking
02:27:30Scorpthey should sell their kbs with nicotine boxes
02:27:36BoD[]mouhah ;)
02:27:41BoD[]good idea
02:27:51Scorpor wait
02:27:54Scorpnicorete I meant
02:27:59Scorpthe stuff that makes you stop smoking lol
02:28:06Scorpnot the stuff in cigarettes
02:28:06SheriffFruitflyit's called death, i think
02:28:12Scorpyeah heh
02:28:16BoD[]no but they could at least incorporate a
02:28:23Scorpan ash tray?
02:28:45SheriffFruitflythat'd be kewl
02:28:46BoD[]yeah i guess? how do you call the thing where you put cigarettes
02:28:49SheriffFruitflyawesome actually.....
02:28:57ScorpBoD[]: an ash tray
02:29:03BoD[]that's it!
02:29:03ScorpI think
02:29:10Scorpthe thing where you put the ashes when smoking?
02:29:16SheriffFruitflywut else would you call it?
02:29:28BoD[]i'll ask
02:29:35Scorpwhat's your native language?
02:29:36SheriffFruitflyyou put the "cigarette butt" in the "ashtray
02:29:43SheriffFruitflywhen ur done smoking....
02:29:51BoD[] ashtray
02:29:53Scorpno you put the cigarrete _butt_ in the _ass_ tray
02:30:00Scorpwait that's not funny... sorry.
02:30:04BoD[]mouhaha :)
02:30:07SheriffFruitflywas too
02:30:21Scorpwhatever floats your boat man ;)
02:30:25Scorpyou know what floats my boat?
02:30:28Scorpmy archos player
02:30:30Scorpwhen it comes
02:30:31SheriffFruitflyum....... do i wanna?
02:30:33Scorp5-9 days :(
02:30:49SheriffFruitflyenglish = 1st language
02:31:33Scorprussian is my 1st Language, even though I only spent 2 days in that hell hole
02:31:38Scorpenglish is my 2nd language
02:31:52SheriffFruitflyah - 1st = ?
02:32:04Scorpl33t sp33k is my 3rd - joke.
02:32:22Scorpwhat's that
02:32:25BoD[]and i'm french
02:32:37SheriffFruitfly1st language = ?
02:32:38BoD[]hey did you see matrix 2
02:32:43SheriffFruitflyfucking sucked
02:32:50SheriffFruitflysoooo disappointing
02:32:52Scorpthat's a good response
02:33:02BoD[]no it was good come on
02:33:24BoD[]maybe too "bad philosophical"
02:33:28SheriffFruitflyremember the ewok paarty/dance scene from return of the jedi?
02:33:36SheriffFruitflyit was in matrix2
02:33:43SheriffFruitflyor was that a jlo video? christ
02:34:03BoD[]arrrff:) why is everybody talking about these 5 minutes!
02:34:12SheriffFruitflycuz they sucked ass
02:34:23SheriffFruitflyrest of the movie was silly - totally plotless
02:34:25BoD[]welll as you said it was like a video
02:34:43BoD[]nothing to do in the movie, but it was not that bad !
02:34:55ScorpMatrix == Harry Potter for big kids
02:34:56SheriffFruitflyjust those 5 min - rest was just random things happening to random people for no good reason, but with very good special effects
02:35:12BoD[]don't tell me you didn't like the "car" scenes !
02:35:14Scorpi kid i kid
02:35:18SheriffFruitflythey were ok
02:35:35BoD[]ok except some parts were ripped from t2
02:35:41SheriffFruitflycept for the neverending party, i didn't mind any of the scenes, taken on their own
02:35:48SheriffFruitflythey just didn't add up toa good movie
02:35:59 Quit LightGOd20 ("···· I R c a p ·· ···")
02:36:08Scorpsequels never live up to their first movies
02:36:14SheriffFruitflytwo towers did
02:36:29BoD[]t2 did !
02:36:33SheriffFruitflytroo dat
02:36:36SheriffFruitflygood call
02:36:43SheriffFruitflyonly two i can think of tho - lol
02:36:46BoD[]the first terminator is allright.. .the second one is great!
02:36:56SheriffFruitflynah - both great
02:36:59BoD[]hmm well maybe back to the future then :)
02:37:22SheriffFruitflynah - aliens is a better example.....
02:37:51BoD[]..hmm aliens is not my favorite one . For me it is inferior to the first one
02:38:20SheriffFruitflyah well.... it was hoping too much to hope for unamimity i guess.... lol
02:38:27SheriffFruitflyback to the future it is then!
02:39:12SheriffFruitflybut anyhoo - if they get a mostly-full-featured linux running on the ipod, i'll totally drop the archos and go get the ipod
02:39:20SheriffFruitflyway more versatile
02:39:25SheriffFruitflywith such an OS
02:39:42Scorpumm no...?
02:39:49Scorpwtf are you going to do with Linux on the ipod?
02:39:51Scorprun apache?
02:39:54BoD[]even without linux
02:40:18BoD[]ipod is inherantly better than jukebox
02:40:27BoD[]except if you want record of course
02:40:28Scorp"Hey man I got a beowolf of ipods running Linux and MySQL, RA!"
02:40:31SheriffFruitflylol - that'd be awesome - do a pump up the volume thing
02:40:57ScorpI bet NetBSD already runs on the iPod
02:41:08BoD[]i dont think so
02:41:13SheriffFruitflyrun around plugging into the internet, brocasting pirate signal....
02:41:34ScorpBoD[]: netbsd runs on everything attempts to deny this are futile.
02:41:58BoD[]resistance is futile i know i know
02:42:46SheriffFruitflysmoke time....
02:42:51Scorp(me thinks of french jokes...anyways.. ;) )
02:43:24Scorpkidding ;)
02:44:14BoD[]please forget them
02:44:22Scorpalready did :)
02:45:49Scorpwhat's the CPU in the ipod?'
02:47:29BoD[]ARM7 I think ?
02:49:01Scorpthere is a lot of "ARM" type CPUs out there
02:49:15Scorpso my guess is that netbsd will be running on an iPOD near you, soon.
02:50:59BoD[]that's possible
02:51:09BoD[]but I don't think it would be a good idea
02:51:28Scorpwhy not?
02:53:57BoD[]because the developpers should instead join the linux effort
02:54:11BoD[]there is no need for TWO unices on ipod :)
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02:55:19CmdrDatawhats going on
02:56:38CmdrDataok, ive had my Windows Disc Error Checking Program scanning my archos for like 4 hours now...and its still not done.
02:56:41CmdrDatais that normal?
02:57:10SheriffFruitflydunno - y u running disk check?
02:57:34CmdrDatabecause i was having a problem with fast forwarding on large files.
02:57:40CmdrDatasay i had a 60 min mp3
02:57:58CmdrDataand if i fast forwarded past like 40 min, the red light would come on, and the player would lock up
02:58:07SheriffFruitflyrunning rockbox or archos?
02:58:52CmdrDataso i put the disc checker on, and i had assumed it would be finished by now...But it is not complete for some reason.
02:59:49CmdrDatashould i let it keep going?
03:00:43CmdrDataany ideas?
03:00:52SheriffFruitflyi'm just about the farthest thing from an expert, but i'd be more inclined to suspect the software than the hardware
03:01:25SheriffFruitflyand dunno if i'd let my archos do anything for 4 hours cept play
03:02:28SheriffFruitflybut ask someone who knows more about that kinda problem
03:02:41SheriffFruitflymailing list mebbe
03:04:27CmdrDataanyone else in here an expert
03:09:41SheriffFruitflylooks like not - sorry - try asking the mailing list
03:09:53SheriffFruitflyor searching the list archives
03:10:59SheriffFruitflygtg - later
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03:26:37 Quit hardeep ("[BX] Reserve your copy of BitchX-1.0c19 for the Atari 2600 today!")
03:38:32Jet8810the MM Archos is nice...
03:44:00Jet8810very interesting choice or headphone jack placement htough...
03:45:49Jet8810anybody alive?
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04:07:24Scorpanyone got headphones advice?
04:10:33Josh_what do you hage in mind?
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04:16:05Scorpa decent set of ear pieces to use with my Archos
04:19:34JEt8810\very high quality?
04:20:05JEt8810\I know that beyerdynamic is a very good DJ headphone maker...the 250-80 I think is the model that I was seriously considering...
04:20:12JEt8810\Sony has some nice ear buds if you prefer that...
04:20:14JEt8810\Grados are also nice
04:20:17JEt8810\but I must go to sleep
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04:40:34elinenbe_seb_: are you here?
04:40:50*adi|home sighs
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07:44:10hardeepheya Zagor
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07:59:56adi|homezagor.. you ever get my email?
08:00:27Zagoruhm, i get lots of mail :-) i can't recall one from you lately though.
08:00:41adi|homei was sending you the sokoban to look at...
08:00:49adi|homelevel loading is segfaulting...
08:00:58adi|homeim not sure where/why
08:01:06adi|homewell.. where.. yes.. why no
08:01:16Zagorok. can you send it again?
08:02:42adi|homehhe i know why you didn't get it
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08:02:52adi|homei sent it to linus.. but it mailed to linux@haxx...
08:03:14Zagorok, got it
08:03:41adi|homeyou will need a level.txt file.. want i should sent it?
08:04:03Zagorplease do
08:04:35adi|homeyou need a sokoban directory in .rockbox
08:06:53adi|homebasically .. the level parsing is fine
08:06:56adi|homethen i load it
08:07:00adi|homewhen i exit the load function
08:07:01adi|homei seg
08:07:33Zagorevery time?
08:08:04dwihnoGood morning lads
08:12:10adi|homehmm okay.. not a seg.. i get a memory access error
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08:12:10adi|homezagor.. if you break at 413
08:12:12adi|homeyou will see it on the next step
08:12:14adi|homeseperate issue...
08:12:18adi|homeon renaming what is your opinion
08:12:39hardeepthat sounds like stack corruption... maybe a buffer overflow?
08:12:41adi|homeright now.. if the file to rename is given the exact same name, we actually rename it... shouldn't we just skip actually spinning up the disck?
08:13:28adi|homenamely if the "new" name is exactly the same as the old one, don't do anything
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08:22:13hardeepdoh, no sscanf
08:22:27hardeepanyone know of a standalone sscanf implementation?
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08:23:44Zagorcan't say I do
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08:46:04matslZagor: have you had a chance to look at my patch or did you put it away in disgust
08:46:27Zagormatsl: no time yet, i'm afraid
08:46:56matslZagor: well there is no rush. (but don't forget it ;-)
08:47:05matslZagor: please ...
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09:54:25*quel|out yawns
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09:54:33quelsarukmorning :)
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10:23:43quelsaruktime to work again
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11:01:23tracktheripperhi bagder
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11:15:45pat23anyone about?
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11:16:51pat23just wondering if anyone could tell me the status of rockbox for the FM recorder
11:17:09Bagdertry it! ;-)
11:17:20pat23my order for the archos recorder 20 was just cancelled due to lack of stock :(
11:17:20Bagderwe're actually covering the fm pretty good now
11:17:33Bagderincluding the fm tuner
11:18:14pat23so yeh, i'm considering getting the fm recorder now, it looks better anyway
11:18:29Bagderwell, that's arguable of course... :-)
11:18:47pat23heh your prob right
11:20:01pat23any particular advantages of the normal recorder against the fm version?
11:20:24Bagdereasy replacable batteries is the main thing I guess
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11:21:19Bagderin the fm version, its a LiIo that you can't replace yourself
11:22:34Zagordigital out is another thing (or was it in?)
11:23:17Bagderno, I think that was sorted out
11:23:23pat23digital out?
11:24:12Bagderno it was the digital in
11:24:20Bagderits done differently on the fm, that's all
11:26:08pat23any ideas on the battery life?
11:28:32Bagderyou mean comparison between recorder and fm?
11:29:36Bagderthe fm should run longer since it ships with more mah batteries
11:29:47Bagderbut you can replace the recorder ones...
11:30:25pat23do you mean it takes more batteries internally?
11:30:59Bagderno, but the FM is shipped from factory with better battery performance
11:31:29pat23ah ok
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12:22:08kang1i'm looking forward archaos player and found rockbox
12:22:30kang1i wondered if it could make it play unconverted divx and stuff like that but no info on webpage
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12:22:48Bagderkang1: sure there is, read the faq
12:23:24Bagderbut the answer is no
12:26:07kang1thx ;)
12:26:10kang1i didn't saw :)
12:26:21kang1any plan ? (maybe i should rtfm :p)
12:26:36Bagderits impossible
12:26:55Bagderuse an external program that converts it to mp3
12:26:56quel|outBagder: you can do it, just change the hardware :P
12:26:58Bagderthen plat that
12:28:57kang1ah k so the soundtrack is the prob?
12:29:08kang1like if my divx has already a mp3 soundtrack should work directly?
12:29:19Bagderplease read the faq through
12:29:30Bagderwe don't have cpu power for hardly anything complicated
12:29:51*kang1 reads
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12:40:36*kang1 starts to think again with ipod;>
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15:53:02LinusNis adi|home awake?
15:54:43dwihnoLinusN: What's up with the rom menus?
15:55:05LinusNthey save the contents of the onboard ROM's on the hard disk
15:55:48dwihnoWhat am I supposed to get if my flash is programmable?
15:55:57dwihnoI got something=something and somethingelse = something else
15:56:09LinusNwhat do you get?
15:56:26dwihnoLet me check.
15:57:25LinusNshould be M=BF D=D6 if you are lucky
15:58:11dwihnoThen I'm lucky ;D
15:58:22LinusNnow i gotta go
15:58:30dwihnoMkay. Have a nice evening :)
15:58:40LinusNtell adi|home that i have fixed his sokoban bug
15:59:10 Part LinusN
15:59:16dwihnoadi|home: < LinusN> tell adi|home that i have fixed his sokoban bug
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16:20:49Stevie[FP]whats going on with the rom thing?
16:21:36Zagorthey're doing some tests to see if we can replace the archos rom with rockbox
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16:24:49dwihnoThat would be <−−−−−−−−−−−−- this −−−−−−−−−−−−-> cool
16:25:56quel|outonly *that* cool?
16:26:47dwihnodepends on how wide your dashes are
16:26:49dwihnomy dashes are <−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−− this −−−−−−−−−−−−-> wide ;)
16:27:27Stevie[FP]if we did that
16:27:37Stevie[FP]we might not need to scramble our binaries
16:28:12quel|outummm, we could even exterminate that 200k limit no?
16:28:17Stevie[FP]I don't know
16:28:25Stevie[FP]sounds like the rom chip's only 256kb
16:29:08Stevie[FP]because the mailing list mentions support for a 'twice the size' 512kb chip
16:29:25quel|outStevie[FP].. i dunno
16:29:56Stevie[FP]which is consistent with what someone else said, that the archos rom is small and leaves 100kb free
16:30:09Stevie[FP]given that the ajbrec.ajz from the Archos website is only about 150kb
16:30:18Stevie[FP]150kb + 100kb is darn close to 256kb
16:31:07Stevie[FP]but I wonder if it would be practical to run from ROM
16:31:17Stevie[FP]ROM has an annoying tendency to be slow
16:33:41Stevie[FP]for example, I work on a device that has 512kb RAM and primarily runs from ROM
16:33:43Zagorwe might only gain startup time
16:33:59dwihnoStartup time would be nice to decrease though
16:34:15Stevie[FP]I wonder
16:34:28quel|outZagor: not only that
16:34:32quel|outfor example
16:34:35Stevie[FP]I wonder how much of the startup time is spent descrambling the ajz file
16:34:53Stevie[FP]in which case, if we can eliminate the need for scrambling
16:35:01quel|outmy jukebox has the annoying property of rebooting sometimes while charging
16:35:29Stevie[FP]that would greatly increase startup time
16:35:45Stevie[FP]My jukebox has an annoying property of sometimes refusing to turn on at first
16:35:52Stevie[FP]i'll hold ON long enough
16:36:05Stevie[FP]the green light and the backlight will turn on
16:36:15Stevie[FP]then shut off a second or two later
16:36:22quel|outso it starts charging using archos, and i don't trust too much in archos..
16:36:33ZagorStevie[FP]: you can try booting with no .ajz file. you will see that it makes only little difference
16:36:38Stevie[FP]when that happens I have to hold the ON button until the startup screen shows up
16:36:49Stevie[FP]Zagor: I think that the image in ROM is scrambled too
16:36:51quel|outusring rockbox on rom, we could skip that nasty archos problem :)
16:37:49Stevie[FP]if you think about it, wouldn't it be easy for them to just embed a tiny bootloader and flash the .ajz file contents directly
16:38:23Stevie[FP]if they scrambled the firmware to try and prevent reverse-engineering
16:38:46Stevie[FP]then it would only make sense for them to scramble the firmware image in ROM
16:39:08Stevie[FP]... has anyone extracted the ROMs contents?
16:39:42dwihnoI "dumped" the ROM
16:40:05dwihnoARCH are the first four bytes in the "second area" file
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16:49:10Stevie[FP]hmm, and our ajbrec.ajz's dont' have this ARCH
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17:02:08LinusNStevie[FP]: the flash is scrambled
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17:18:10quel|outzagor: could you please tell me how did linus know we were talking about rom??
17:18:17quel|outi'm really scared :P
17:18:25Zagorhe's checking the logs
17:19:08quel|outbut not the logs on the website
17:19:27quel|out'cause today's log won't be abailable till tomorow
17:19:51Zagorlook at the bottom: Today's log (updating live)
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17:22:03quel|outi have a strange recorder on my hands
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17:24:27jdariusHi...just updated to 2.0, and after a full charge, my Archos Recorder 20 shows only 9% charge. Bad batteries all of the sudden, or software related?
17:25:24quel|outZagor: i've taked out the hard drive (to upgrade it) and i've seen 2 wires (green and red wires) going from the digital in/out to somewhere on the bottom board...
17:25:26Zagorjdarius: try the latest daily build. we've done a fix to the battery display.
17:25:42Zagorquel|out: sounds strange.
17:25:47Zagori have to go. see you later!
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17:26:20quel|outlinus, if you're reading this... PLEASE, i need some help, if possible
17:26:34jdariusZagor...thanks...I'll grab it right away. Great software, by the way.
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18:20:19LinusNquel|out: i heard your cry for help
18:20:47LinusNsend me an email linus at if you need me
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18:41:29 Join TotMacher [0] (
18:46:56 Join _aLF [0] (
19:27:31*Stevie[FP] is away [food] [KS-MsgLog Off]
19:46:48***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
19:54:33 Join hardeep [0] (1098@
21:05:58 Join veddy [0] (
21:12:41 Join RickDankoFan [0] (
21:12:54RickDankoFangreetings to all!
21:14:55*Stevie[FP] is back from [food] [gone 1hr 47mins 24secs] [KS]
21:15:02Stevie[FP]even ME?
21:15:24RickDankoFanDownloaded rockbox sw for my studio 20 half an hour ago and it works great. came here to thank developers.
21:15:35RickDankoFanyes, Stevie[FP] all
21:16:38quel|outtime to go home!
21:16:43Stevie[FP]cya quel
21:16:44veddyyeah rockbox is awesome , i give my thanks too
21:16:47quel|outRickDankoFan: i hope you liked the manual
21:17:08veddyyou made the pdf manual quel?
21:17:08RickDankoFanoh yes, much better than for sw you have to pay for
21:18:04RickDankoFani was often angry about the impossibility to fine tune the volume with archos firmware. here it works like i always wished
21:18:44veddyoh cool quel, cause i had 2.0 for a couple of weeks and didnt even realise the queue/rename functions til i read your manual
21:18:45veddygood job
21:19:16veddyi seriously want a new HD fro my JB though, 18.6 gb's isn't enough anymore, hehe
21:19:24quel|outwell.. a lot of people helped me adding notes and ideas. :)
21:19:26RickDankoFanwell when i read the manual, i often thought "i wish i had the recorder model!" lol
21:19:35veddylol me too
21:19:50veddybut i paid 200 bucks for my JB and thats not such a bad deal
21:20:00veddylast january
21:20:09veddybut recently i saw a recorder for 210 at best buy
21:20:13 Quit quel|out ("KVIrc 3.0.0-beta1 "Eve's Avatar"")
21:20:27RickDankoFani once read an article about how to replace the 6GB disk with a 20GB one. is it possible to replace the disk within studio 20 with a bigger one?
21:21:28veddyand i will once i get some money
21:21:47veddyi want an 80 gb one
21:21:52RickDankoFanany known limitations like PC bios often has?
21:22:08veddynot that i know of
21:22:39RickDankoFanthat would be cool... to carry around an 80GB jukebox...
21:23:50RickDankoFani think i'd have problems to fill it. maybe you should work on a version of vmware for the jukebox? then we could install several os to fill the disks...
21:24:14veddythat would be cool
21:24:22veddyi wouldnt have any problems filling it though :)
21:24:31veddywhat i really want is the new multimedia archos thing
21:24:35RickDankoFanjust with music?
21:24:44veddyjust with music
21:24:52veddyrip all my cd's and LP's
21:25:08veddyand borrow a few friends ;)
21:25:54RickDankoFanhmmm, i don't know if i would use the multimedia model. don't watch many movies
21:26:05RickDankoFanand there would be no rockbox!
21:26:33veddyyeah that would suck , i bet the default mod thing for it sucks just like the default JB one
21:26:46veddyit always skipped at 256kbs and up for me
21:26:51veddybut rockbox fixed that
21:26:54veddyand many many other things
21:27:08veddythe cool thing about the multimedia model
21:27:13veddyis that you can hook it up to a tv
21:27:23veddyand it has a better picture than a vcr
21:27:30Stevie[FP]yes, I believe there will be problems
21:27:31veddyso thats quite useful
21:28:49RickDankoFanStevie[FP]: problems inserting such a big disk into the jukebox?
21:29:43Stevie[FP]I'm thinking more about the machine you plug it into
21:30:03Stevie[FP]the theoretical maximum for fat32 is 2 terabytes
21:30:14Stevie[FP]but I remember seeing something about a 32gb limit
21:30:37RickDankoFanhad a pc with such a limit, had to update the bios
21:31:18Stevie[FP]yeah, but there was something about Windows too
21:31:54veddyevery ver. of windows?
21:32:39RickDankoFanwhy would that matter for the player?
21:32:54veddyyou hgave to format it
21:32:56Stevie[FP]You cannot format a volume larger than 32 GB in size using the FAT32 file system in Win2K/XP. The Win2K/XP FastFAT driver can mount and support volumes larger than 32 GB that use the FAT32 file system (subject to the other limits), but you cannot create one using the Format tool. This behaviour is by design. Microsoft recommends using NTFS for partitions greater than 32GB.
21:33:16veddythat sucks
21:33:20*RickDankoFan mounts the Jukebox on Linux
21:33:25Stevie[FP]RickDankoFan: agreed
21:33:35Stevie[FP]I assume someone wrote a mkfat32fs
21:33:40RickDankoFanthat is true
21:33:49Stevie[FP]in which case
21:33:53Stevie[FP]all you need is a couple of floppies
21:34:03RickDankoFaneven if you have no linux, you can use a rescue system that just starts from cd
21:34:29RickDankoFanon cd of suse is such a system
21:34:30Stevie[FP]make a kernel with compiled-in USB mass storage support
21:34:35RickDankoFanknoppix is a new one
21:36:35Stevie[FP]I wish I knew where Linus got his info for the xing VBR header
21:39:53 Join tracktheripper [0] (
21:41:13RickDankoFanhi tracktheripper
21:41:44tracktheripperjust been in sourceforge
21:41:53tracktherippera lot of "None" requests have been removed
21:46:49***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21:47:01RickDankoFani must leave. so thanks again to the developers for the rockbox, maybe I'll jump in again from time to time.
21:48:05RickDankoFansend me a message when the voice control module for the recorder goes to beta! :))
21:48:17 Part RickDankoFan
21:59:48tracktheripperquiet here now
22:06:21 Quit veddy ("Proops")
22:08:38tracktheripperanyone alive?
22:16:15 Join Jet8810 [0] (
22:28:37Jet8810holy shit!
22:28:43Jet8810The Archos Multimedia is AMAZING
22:28:45tracktheripperwhats up
22:28:49tracktheripperdo u have one@
22:29:17Jet8810my older brother got one
22:29:23Jet8810and now I frown upon my recorder...LOL
22:29:39Jet8810THAT is bro got a 20gb MP3/movie/picture viewer..The Archos can read CF or SM cards, work as a digital camera, watch divx movies and pictures and listen to music and display ANY of this amazingly clear on a TV!
22:29:46webmindyay.. /me finally has a 40gb hd in his archos
22:29:48Jet8810copied from
22:29:58webmindnow i can use the queu function ;)
22:30:11Jet8810webmind, how much did you pay?
22:30:17tracktheripperjet but it doesn't have rockbox :)
22:30:20webmindJet8810, 150 euro
22:30:26Jet8810heh track...
22:30:28Jet8810very true...
22:30:35Jet8810and the headphone jack is on the SIDE of the unit...very strange
22:30:45Jet8810webmind, not bad
22:30:50*webmind found a downside on rickbox.. if your fs is locked u cant use the queue function :(
22:30:55webmindJet8810, nope
22:31:00tracktheripperis the screen a TFT type on the MM
22:31:06Jet8810I dont know
22:31:08Jet8810not good in sunlight
22:31:12Jet8810and its black when its turned off
22:31:21Jet8810ever used a Palm IIIC?
22:31:28Jet8810its the same type of screen, but the resolution is very nice
22:31:36Jet8810I could never own it though, it doesnt work great in sunlight
22:31:36Jet8810its that simple
22:31:49tracktheripperit must be a STN type
22:33:18Jet8810it does work OK in the sunlight...if you change the color scheme to white on black you can see it fine, otherwise a little bit of squinting
22:33:23Jet8810but the whole screen doesnt turn black...
22:33:59Jet8810damnit, cant I find a really bad flaw in this product?
22:37:20Jet8810well it doesnt run rockbox...that is a rather big flaw
22:38:49PsycoXultiny screen, limited functionality
22:38:57Jet8810screens bigger then recorder
22:39:04Jet8810limited go on...
22:39:08PsycoXula pda's screen is tiny
22:39:21PsycoXulthe MM's screen is just itty bitty
22:39:24Jet8810I am comparing th emultimedia to my archos recorder
22:39:29Jet8810and they are the saem size actually
22:40:02PsycoXulthe modules are proprietary and expensive...
22:40:35PsycoXulpersonally i'd wait for at least 2nd or 3rd generations of MM-class devices before i'd consider getting one
22:40:40Jet8810came with $400 unit...
22:41:08PsycoXulfood, bbl
22:41:16Jet8810heh OK
22:41:40Jet8810when its $400 for a color screen, video and picture viewing, a CF and SM module along with cables to hook up to a TV and a 20gb hard drive you are very tempted...letr me tell you
22:45:47tracktheripperbut the batteries are the MMs Achille's heel
22:45:57 Join tester1 [0] (
22:46:11Jet8810track, hmm...I dont know that
22:46:12Jet8810but so I hear
22:47:07tracktheripperwhat is the camera module like?
22:47:27 Join LinusN [200] (
22:47:35tester1sorry - just one little question. how can i print to the console window from within uisimulator? i want to use that for testing
22:47:41tracktheripperthe king is here
22:48:12LinusNDEBUGF("My variable: %d", var);
22:48:18LinusNwhere, where?
22:49:05LinusNStevie[FP]: Xing header info:
22:49:20tester1oh - thank you. i will try that
22:53:09Jet8810track, he never got the camera one
22:53:14Jet8810for $400 you only get CF and SM ones
22:53:27Jet8810hey Linus~
22:53:47 Quit [keno] (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22:55:52tracktheripperwheres Linus?
22:56:17Jet8810hes in here
22:56:36tracktheripperthink hes asleep though
22:58:44tester1sorry - must ask again. debugf doesnt work. i added debugf`s to tree.c - but nothing happens in the console window
22:59:47LinusNtester1: windows or linux?
22:59:53tester1windoofs :)
22:59:59LinusNo, never tried that
23:00:28tester1mhh - maybe nobody tried that? :D
23:00:39 Nick tester1 is now known as devZer0 (
23:00:44devZer0hello :)
23:00:45hardeeptester1: are you using the win32 simulator or the x11 simulator with cygwin?
23:01:04devZer0i`m using win32 sim with cygwin
23:03:22hardeepwin32 simulator debug info sent to the debugger if you're running it
23:03:44devZer0you mean, i must use gdb for that?
23:04:11devZer0sorry - but never used that tool. im not an advanced c programmer
23:05:20devZer0i wonder, that the simulator-app cannot print to the console directly. this must be a missing feature ;)
23:05:44LinusNdevZer0: absolutely
23:05:52LinusNthe x11 version prints to the console
23:06:46hardeepdevZero: edit debug-win32.c:debug() and change it to a printf
23:07:29devZer0ok - i will look at that
23:09:51*Stevie[FP] is away [(Auto-Away after 1hr 1sec)] [KS-MsgLog Off]
23:10:06 Join [IDC]Dragon [0] (
23:10:19devZer0ahhhh. half the way....
23:10:27[IDC]DragonGood evening!
23:10:42hardeepLinusN: do we have some way of getting a frame count while we're recording?
23:11:52LinusNhardeep: yes, there is a frame counter in the MAS
23:11:58LinusN[IDC]Dragon: hi
23:12:29LinusNhardeep: but the counter is only 20 bits, and it doesn't wrap
23:12:37hardeepLinusN: hmmm... in that case, couldn't we write out the Xing header as soon as the recording is done instead of doing a vbrfix after?
23:12:54LinusNhardeep: we do write the xing header if the counter is valid
23:12:57hardeepLinusN: oh, blah, doesn't wrap
23:13:20LinusNif it is 0xfffff, we don't include the frame count in the xing header
23:13:50LinusNthat was the "3 hour" bug a while ago
23:14:04tracktheripperhi Dragon
23:14:12LinusN"time stops at 3:42:00"
23:14:16LinusNor something
23:14:21Jet8810hey Linus...hav eyou used the Archos Multimedia yet?
23:14:39LinusNJet8810: i saw one on a picture once
23:14:43hardeepyeah, i was just thinking of some way we could write the TOC on the fly without vbrfix... (re: all the messages recently)
23:14:54Jet8810my brother got one, it is really nice actually, but no rockbox
23:15:05LinusNhardeep: like i said, we do that if the file is shorter than 3 hours
23:15:59LinusNbut there may be a bug there somewhere, because the original poster said something about negative file times
23:16:05*Stevie[FP] is back from [(Auto-Away after 1hr 1sec)] [gone 6mins 14secs] [KS]
23:16:07Stevie[FP]hey Linus
23:16:17[IDC]DragonDoes anybody know how many chars the old player allows for a line in the debug menu? (I exceeded that)
23:16:21Stevie[FP]where did you find your info on the xing header?
23:16:37LinusNscroll back in your IRc window
23:17:43tracktheripperlinus is there a maximum number of characters an ID3 tag can have?
23:17:59Stevie[FP]let's see, at a SR of 44.1
23:18:12Stevie[FP]layer III is 1152 samples per frame
23:18:14LinusNtracktheripper: i think it maxes out at 28 bits
23:18:30Stevie[FP]or 26.122449ms per frame
23:18:32tracktheripperthe archos firmware wont display all characters in long ID3 tags
23:19:03tracktheripperfor some reason
23:19:05LinusNtracktheripper: id3v1 has a max length of 32 chars or so
23:19:34LinusNwe truncate is the sum of the frames we parse exceeds 300 bytes
23:19:35tracktheripperLinus u know those cables that have the 3.5mm plug at BOTH ends?
23:20:19tracktherippercould u make large MP3s smaller by using a said cable to connect the EAR OUT and LINE IN ports together?
23:20:43*Stevie[FP] blinks
23:20:58Stevie[FP]why does the thought of that not make me particularly happy?
23:21:03LinusNtracktheripper: no
23:21:18LinusNStevie[FP]: thought of what?
23:22:14LinusNtracktheripper: the jukebox can't play and record at the same time
23:22:24Stevie[FP]trying to re-encode an mp3 that way
23:22:33Stevie[FP]it's just so... wrong
23:22:41LinusNStevie[FP]: agreed
23:23:03tracktheripperwell i wont put that in sourceforge then
23:23:09Stevie[FP]load it up onto your pc
23:23:18Stevie[FP]use Winamp or something to decode to WAV
23:23:20LinusNsourceforge is the way, actually
23:23:22Stevie[FP]then use LAME witha lower bitrate
23:23:28tracktheripperi use Music Match
23:23:33tracktheripperwith its fraunhofer codec
23:23:42Stevie[FP]and I use whatever I feel like using at the time
23:23:49Stevie[FP]with bladeenc or LAME :P
23:23:56tracktheripperblade is useless
23:23:59tracktheripperive used blade
23:24:01tracktheripperit sounds crap
23:24:07Stevie[FP]blade isn't useless
23:24:10Stevie[FP]blade is slow
23:24:15Stevie[FP]if you want useless
23:24:16LinusN(here we go again)
23:24:22Stevie[FP]you need to try Audiocatalyst
23:24:46*LinusN fears an Encoder Flame War
23:24:48Stevie[FP]the who-cares-what-it-sounds-like-as-long-as-its-fast ripper and encoder!
23:24:52tracktheripperwell ill use the LinusN codec :-)
23:25:03Stevie[FP]naw, i'm not in the mood for a religious war atm
23:25:15Stevie[FP]since it doesn't affect me one way or the other what anybody else uses
23:25:50Stevie[FP]if I want a religious war I'll go to the linux-kernel list and say something about how IDE is better/worse than SCSI
23:26:08Stevie[FP]all I need to do is ask
23:26:14Stevie[FP]why my IDE drives run so slow
23:26:26Stevie[FP]I don't even need to troll very hard
23:26:52LinusNor just ask "Why don't you use C++" in the rockbox list :-)
23:28:20Stevie[FP]did anyone even do a g++ SH1 port?
23:28:37LinusNi never managed to compile it
23:28:56tracktheripper"hardware mod" put a 3:0Ghz pentium processor in the archos
23:29:06*Stevie[FP] smax tracktheripper
23:29:13Stevie[FP]if anything... athlon.
23:29:28LinusNactually, i had long going plans of exchanging the CPU board of the Jukebox
23:29:43LinusNfor the fun of ti
23:29:51Stevie[FP]finally, ogg support!
23:30:02tracktheripperor even atrac3 soupport
23:30:10Stevie[FP]which chip are we annoyed at Archos for not telling us how to use?
23:30:21Stevie[FP]ac3 support?
23:30:23Stevie[FP]great idea
23:30:26LinusNStevie[FP]: it's not Archos, it's Micronas
23:30:39Stevie[FP]ive always needed 5-channel sound for my headphones
23:30:47LinusNthe documentation on how to reprogram the MAS
23:30:50tracktheripperemail micronas then!
23:30:57LinusNtracktheripper: i have
23:31:06Stevie[FP]what dorks
23:31:16LinusN"trade secrets"
23:31:27LinusNyou must sign an NDA
23:31:34Stevie[FP]how do we know it's programmable?
23:31:42LinusNthey say so in the docs
23:31:46Stevie[FP]which docs?
23:31:52LinusNand the MAS 3507 has been reprogrammed
23:32:12LinusNthe data sheets tell how to download code and run it
23:32:26Stevie[FP]that sounds useful
23:32:33LinusNcool indeed
23:32:41[IDC]Dragonbut it only has 4 kB of memory for extra code, right?
23:32:43Stevie[FP]i sense a 'but'
23:32:43LinusNthe MAS3507 has been made to timestretch
23:33:38tracktheripperso when are we getting timestreching?!
23:33:38LinusNthe opcodes and stuff are secret
23:33:46Stevie[FP]who has made it to timestrech?
23:33:51Stevie[FP]timestretch even
23:34:21Stevie[FP]which I'm guessing that the 'timestretch' is actually adjusting the samplerate used to play the mp3
23:34:47tracktheripperstevie timestretching is changing playback speed WITHOUT altering pitch
23:34:53*Stevie[FP] blinks
23:35:02LinusNStevie[FP]: no, it slows the tempo without changing the pitch
23:35:13Stevie[FP]who the hell pulled that one off?
23:35:46tracktheripperif it can pitch shift then it can timestretch
23:35:51LinusNthe hw is very similar to the jukebox
23:36:05LinusNtracktheripper: don't get me started again
23:36:06Stevie[FP]same MAS?
23:36:08adi|homelinus.. i got your email...
23:36:10tracktheripperafter all, all u are doing in timestretch is keeping the pitch same
23:36:11adi|homeim digging into it now
23:36:19LinusNtracktheripper: "all you are doing"
23:36:30adi|homeand i relized last night that i sent it to linux :)
23:36:34adi|homebut you werent around
23:36:41Stevie[FP]all you are doing is probably just a few fourier tansforms
23:36:52Stevie[FP]and a large amount of other complex math
23:36:55LinusNtracktheripper: i have spent so much time trying to explain this to you
23:37:27Stevie[FP]ok, so this mp3 player has the same MAS chip?
23:37:33LinusNyes MAS3507
23:37:41tracktheripperwhich one linusN
23:37:45tracktheripperhas the same chip as the archos
23:37:54Stevie[FP]and it claims the ability to timeshift?
23:38:24Stevie[FP]how certain are we that it exploits the MAS capabilities to do this?
23:38:27LinusN"Variable playback speed possible without affecting pitch"
23:38:42LinusNpretty certain
23:38:53Stevie[FP]none of us would happen to have one of these things?
23:38:55PsycoXuldoes it have firmware you can reverse engineer to get the MAS programming info?
23:39:00Stevie[FP]if we could extract the f
23:39:04Stevie[FP]yeah, what PsycoXul is saying
23:39:12LinusNok, they could have put a DSP between the MAS and the DAC, but i doubt it
23:39:16tracktherippercan it be programmed to play WMA?
23:39:22LinusNPsycoXul: yes
23:40:18Stevie[FP]would anybody we know would happen to *have* any of this firmware?
23:41:13LinusNit is not scrambled
23:41:14_aLFLinusN> is there a problem with NDA and rockbox license ?
23:41:16LinusNgo ahead
23:41:22LinusN_aLF: yes
23:41:33LinusNwe want it to be open source
23:41:52*Stevie[FP] goes to work at Micronas, steals all the info, and quits
23:42:03Stevie[FP]is anyone working on deciphering this thing?
23:42:14LinusNi looked at it once, just for the fun of it
23:42:24LinusNbut i didn't dig into the MAS thing
23:42:32Stevie[FP]theres 3 .bin files
23:42:58LinusNStevie[FP]: you are very welcome to give it a try
23:45:00adi|homelinus... can i get you opinion on a couple things?
23:45:12LinusNadi|home: sure
23:45:19adi|homek.. first off.. deleting...
23:45:33adi|homeright now there is no (on recorder) desc of what key does what.
23:45:41adi|homeany prob if i fix that (after sokoban is in)
23:45:54LinusNadi|home: you mean a f-key bar?
23:46:11adi|homewhen you do "on-play"
23:46:14adi|homeand choose delete
23:46:24adi|homea new user won't know what key does what
23:46:33adi|homefor the confirmation
23:46:38adi|homeplay=yes etc
23:46:52***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:49:55_aLFLinusN> is it possible in first time (shouldn't be last) to give codec in binary format ?
23:50:09adi|homeother thing with delete.. shouldn't we have the ability to delete a dir?
23:56:46 Join Yeft [0] (
23:58:27Yefti have a question
23:58:39Stevie[FP]i have an answer
23:58:49Stevie[FP]with any luck, my answer might go well with your question
23:58:58Yeftwhen i load the renamed archos.mod file to my jukebox6000 it thinks that it is a music file (on my comp) and then does nothing in the player

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