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#rockbox log for 2003-07-11

00:00:01Stevie[FP]there's no trivial way to probe the HW to see if we have an FM or Rec
00:00:10REBELinBLUEDon't mean to interrupt but just wondering from reading all this, is there any timescale for an FM release of Flash Rockbox
00:00:20Zagorwe don't need to probe the hardware. different images run on different models.
00:00:21 Join Bio_Hazard [0] (~a@cpe-66-75-41-114.bak.rr.com)
00:00:24Stevie[FP]however, we do know that by getting Rockbox up and running (which you must do, in order to flash), which model Rockbox was built for
00:00:28Bio_Hazardyo
00:00:36ZagorREBELinBLUE: no. "when it works"
00:00:37Stevie[FP]Zagor: err
00:00:49Stevie[FP]you just contradicted yourself
00:00:51Bio_Hazardwhats all this about flashing?
00:00:59Stevie[FP]well sorta
00:01:03Zagorok, i'll take it from the beginning:
00:01:09Bio_Hazarddoes it involve women?
00:01:15Stevie[FP]images only run on the model they were built for
00:01:15REBELinBLUEOK thought so :D
00:01:15Bio_HazardJ\K
00:01:24Zagor1) User downloads "Rockbox for FM Recorder"
00:01:26[IDC]DragonREBELinBLUE: I'll start on it next week.
00:01:28Stevie[FP]if we run them on another model they will not work correctly
00:01:42Zagor2) User runs "create start flash image" plugin
00:01:55Zagor3) User burns start flash image
00:01:56Bio_Hazardi could flash a 15GB archos right? (or does size matter)
00:02:06REBELinBLUEJust 1 question, how does it actually work? ie is the whole firmware in the ROM or just the loader?
00:02:07Stevie[FP]you are being way too ideal here
00:02:32Stevie[FP]I love the idea of having ideal users as much as you do, but we already have evidence indicating that we don't
00:02:33Zagorrockbox is not about protecting people against themselves
00:02:42Zagori refuse to endulge in such practices
00:02:52[IDC]DragonREBELinBLUE: there's actually 2 of them in the flash, plus the loader.
00:02:53Zagorand more, i refuse to mess up our code for this purpose
00:03:05REBELinBLUEah right.
00:03:09Stevie[FP]how is adding a model check messing up the code?
00:03:09REBELinBLUEHow big is the ROM then?
00:03:30Bio_Hazardif i flash wrong, can you restore it?
00:03:40[IDC]DragonREBELinBLUE: 256k, with compression I fit about 440k in there.
00:04:01REBELinBLUEI see. One last question then I'll leave you alone :D
00:04:10[IDC]DragonBio_Hazard: Yes, if the box is still alive.
00:04:12Bio_Hazardsteive: people should use common sense before messing with stuff... why go to the trouble for a check?
00:04:27REBELinBLUEHow do you actually flash the ROM is it just like flashing the ROM on any other hardware, or do I need the serial mod?
00:04:33Bio_Hazardif it says "RECORDER" dont use it on a FM...
00:04:57*Stevie[FP] notes that the fm is actually called 'FM RECORDER'
00:04:59Stevie[FP]and Bio_Hazard
00:05:07 Part tpelliott
00:05:08[IDC]DragonREBELinBLUE: you don't need a mod. can you RTFM?
00:05:11Stevie[FP]ever heard of something called a 'sanity check'?
00:05:24Bio_HazardSanity check?
00:05:37Stevie[FP]yeah
00:05:39Stevie[FP]a sanity check
00:05:40REBELinBLUESorry were is the manual? I didn't know there was one no link on the RB site that I can see
00:05:47Bio_HazardBTW those werent directed at you...
00:06:08[IDC]Dragonhttp://joerg.hohensohn.bei.t-online.de/archos/readme.txt
00:06:11Bio_Hazardthey were directed at all the ppl who dont RTFM
00:06:56REBELinBLUEOK thanks
00:07:16REBELinBLUEDidn't know there was a manual, otherwise I would have read it first
00:07:26[IDC]Dragonnever mind.
00:08:08Stevie[FP]I don't get why everybody's pushing against me on this
00:08:36Stevie[FP]you all act like I'm trying to idiotproof things, except what I'm trying to isn't even for protecting people against themselves
00:08:37Zagorthe whole point i'm making is: we distribute this stuff as binaries. people will have to make a concerted effort to mess things up.
00:09:03Stevie[FP]what i'm saying has NOTHING to do with preventing people from flashing the wrong image
00:09:19Zagorso what purpose does a model check have then?
00:09:37Stevie[FP]I was telling you but you ignored me :P
00:09:57Zagorsorry abou that...
00:10:10Stevie[FP][idc], quite understandably, wants to simplify his bootloader so he doesn't have to maintain two different versions (fm and recorder)
00:10:25 Join keithhub [0] (~keith@rdu57-68-096.nc.rr.com)
00:10:27Stevie[FP]because the ON+F1 sequence has to check diff ADC registers for FM
00:10:27Zagorit's an #ifdef, it's not two versions
00:10:36Stevie[FP]that's two builds
00:10:41Stevie[FP]may I finish?
00:10:48Zagorwe already have 12 automated
00:10:51Zagorsure, sorry
00:11:12Stevie[FP]so he was looking for a way to autodetect the model
00:11:21Stevie[FP]however, if RB provides an is_fm() function
00:11:25Stevie[FP]or something like it
00:11:52Stevie[FP]he can have a special reserved byte −− much like the archos hardware mask −− and flash it 0 or 1 when writing the bootloader to the flash
00:12:38Zagorwhy does this have to be made runtime? the whole damn flash image is created compile time, model specific.
00:12:42Stevie[FP]the bootloader checks this byte on startup to see which registers to check for F1 or ON
00:13:06Stevie[FP]if I understand correctly, the bootloader is separate from the Rockbox image
00:13:14Zagoryes
00:14:14Stevie[FP]then it doesn't need to be created at compile time
00:14:18Zagortake a broader view: why do we have separate fm recorder and recorder builds? why don't we just handle it in runtime?
00:14:49Stevie[FP]because the overhead incurred would be ridiculous
00:15:14Stevie[FP]how about this
00:15:17Stevie[FP]why stop there?
00:15:27Stevie[FP]why not have a different RB build for each hardware mask?
00:15:40Zagorwe did...
00:15:45Stevie[FP]users should load the correct version
00:15:59[IDC]DragonC'mon guys, stop worrying over my head...
00:16:16Stevie[FP]it's not just that
00:16:20[IDC]DragonZagor: I've sent the sources out to you.
00:16:22Zagorwe've already drawn these lines once. why should we draw them differently this time?
00:16:29Zagordragon: ok, thanks
00:16:52Stevie[FP]because right now you're drawing the lines on a project that's not directly part of rockbox
00:17:25Zagorit will be, as soon as I or Jörg commit it :)
00:17:37Stevie[FP]why does the bootloader need to be part of rockbox?
00:17:59Zagorwhy is the gdb stub part of rockbox?
00:18:20*Stevie[FP] rephrases
00:18:20Zagorfor practical reasons
00:18:24Stevie[FP]how can the bootloader be part of rockbox?
00:18:33[IDC]DragonActually, we have to distribute the bootloader sources, because the decompression is under GPL.
00:18:54Zagornot part of the rockbox image, but part of the project. such as the things in tools/
00:18:57Stevie[FP]I thought it was an independent module that then loaded a compressed rockbox image
00:19:23Stevie[FP][idc] brought up the fm radio plugin
00:19:36Stevie[FP]I actually don't see much technical reason why that couldn't be a plugin
00:20:04Stevie[FP]it requires no code to maintain it once it's started
00:20:08Zagorno technical reason except it requires a rather complex api to coexist with the core mpeg code
00:20:17Stevie[FP]hm? how so?
00:20:28[IDC]DragonWhile you get religious about it, I'll go to bed.
00:20:31Stevie[FP]lol
00:20:32Zagor:-)
00:20:38Stevie[FP]nite idc
00:20:44Zagorsleep well
00:20:58[IDC]DragonWill read the logs tomorrow th check what I have to do ;-)
00:21:03Stevie[FP]my argument is this: I don't know what plugins people might create
00:21:15Stevie[FP]I do know that I am not omniscient, so they might create something I've never thought of
00:21:15 Quit [IDC]Dragon ()
00:22:07Zagorwell, I had an idea about plugins being non-core items. i.e. not for playing music since that's what rockbox is all about
00:22:21Stevie[FP]I can understand that
00:22:24Zagorthus the radio should be part of rockbox, not in a plugin
00:22:54Stevie[FP]I think it's conceivable that someone might want to determine at runtime if a plugin is running on fm or recorder
00:23:08Zagoras for the technical reason, you need access to the DAC and stuff as well as the radio tuner. and the dac as also poked on by the mpeg code, so there would be a sync issue
00:23:09Stevie[FP]an 'is_fm' api routine would add only a few bytes, and make that very easy for the plugin writer
00:24:19Stevie[FP]without it, the plugin has to somehow probe for it
00:24:26Zagoryes. and if anyone comes up with a use for it, I will listed carefully to his suggestion to add it to the api
00:24:45Bio_Hazardi cant flash my archos :(
00:24:59Zagoruntil then, however, i will not add things I don't see a use for. then I'd have to add a zillion things
00:25:27Zagorfair?
00:25:31Stevie[FP]i guess
00:25:47Stevie[FP]I just don't understand it, I guess
00:25:54PsycoXulhow about converting the FM into a spread-spectrum reciever
00:25:54 Quit SillyFly (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
00:26:16ZagorPsycoXul: i think linusn said he would do that
00:26:32Stevie[FP]ok, maybe you can answer the question that I had asked before all this started
00:27:06Stevie[FP]i have the first cluster of the root directory
00:27:14Stevie[FP]but how do I know where the next cluster is?
00:27:42Zagorget_next_cluster()
00:27:48Stevie[FP]no, I mean in general
00:27:57Stevie[FP]this is outside of rb
00:28:06Zagorthat is the purpose of the FAT
00:28:17Stevie[FP]yeah, but I have no documentation on how to access the FAT
00:28:18Zagorit's a big matrix of cluster chains
00:28:22Stevie[FP]only the damn LFNs in the directory entries
00:28:36Stevie[FP]oh wait
00:28:40Stevie[FP]I think I get it now
00:28:49Stevie[FP]the FAT is a big array
00:28:50Zagorthink of it as a huge array of ints, each pointing to the next in the chain
00:28:52Stevie[FP]unsigned long FAT[]
00:28:55Stevie[FP]err
00:28:57Zagorhehe
00:28:58Bio_Hazardwhat is the algorythim rockbox uses to name recordings
00:28:59Stevie[FP]unsigned long next_cluster[]
00:29:10Stevie[FP]so that next_cluster[i]
00:29:15ZagorBio_Hazard: rockbox$date$time.mp3
00:29:21Bio_Hazardah
00:29:22 Join Guest2 [0] (jirc@pD9E1D867.dip.t-dialin.net)
00:29:26Bio_Hazardwhy version?
00:29:39Zagorno version, just date and time
00:29:49ZagorStevie[FP]: exactly
00:30:04Bio_HazardR030710-112915.mp3 = ?
00:30:41Zagor030710 == 10th Jul 2003, 112915 == time 11:29:15
00:30:54Bio_Hazardah
00:31:02Bio_Hazardok, i guess
00:31:30Bio_Hazardi read in the faq that you can rename files and stuff... how do you do that?
00:31:42Zagorpress ON+PLAY on a file
00:32:06Bio_Hazard(about the filename thing: why not add -s between #s
00:32:34Zagoris R-03-07-10-11-29-15.mp3 really better?
00:32:52Bio_Hazardand a space between the date and time
00:33:17Bio_Hazardlike R 03-07-10 11:29:15.mp3
00:33:25Zagoryou can't have colon
00:33:26Bio_Hazardanent those valid chars?
00:33:30Bio_Hazardyou cant?
00:33:33Bio_Hazardhmm
00:33:37Zagornot in fat
00:34:17Bio_Hazardwell then replace : with something similar
00:34:39PsycoXulwhats the point
00:34:46PsycoXulit's just supposed to be a unique name
00:34:49Bio_Hazardim anal about that stuff
00:34:51PsycoXulyou can rename it to whatever you like
00:35:22Bio_Hazardi never knew how
00:35:25Bio_Hazardtill now
00:35:33PsycoXulwell now you do :p
00:35:57Bio_Hazardcant you replace the funny F2 & F3 menu things with a F1 style menu?
00:36:13PsycoXulwhy, the stuff in them are already in the F1 menu
00:36:24Bio_Hazardyea
00:36:32PsycoXulthe whole point of the F2 and F3 ones is to be a QUICK menu where you can easily change a common setting
00:36:44Bio_Hazardwell then why is there a f2 & f3 menu at all then
00:36:52Bio_Hazardyea
00:36:56PsycoXulwithout having to go through menus looking for them
00:37:04Bio_Hazardbut why limit it to 6?
00:37:26Bio_Hazardi still think there should be a programmable menu structure (like WPS)
00:37:47PsycoXuli'm not sure why they don't have 4 each... heh
00:37:53*Stevie[FP] fails to see any commonly changed settings in F3
00:37:58PsycoXulBio_Hazard: yeah i agree that'd be nice
00:38:06Stevie[FP]I always thought F3 would be better suited to open what's now the on+play menu
00:38:08Bio_Hazarditd be a bit cryptic, but so what?
00:38:23PsycoXulbut *shrug*
00:38:32ZagorStevie[FP]: yeah, that's part of bagder's suggestion iirc
00:38:57Bio_HazardWPS already is cryptic, so with the faq, youd be able to program the menu
00:38:59PsycoXuli just wish my harddrive wasn't going all funky now not wanting to do anything but give errors on startup
00:40:04Bio_Hazardwhat is "update VBR file"?
00:40:13PsycoXulthere's some recordings on it i was never able to copy off too, cause the copied version on the PC'd end up missing a piece or something
00:40:45PsycoXullike the file that rockbox and everything else says is 31 seconds long, but while everything else stops playing it there, rockbox keeps going for several more seconds past 31
00:40:54PsycoXulbut i'm gonna go take a shower
00:41:41ZagorBio_Hazard: recalculate vbr index
00:41:43Bio_Hazarddoes rockbox still cut off the first and last 1\2 sec off mp3s? (or is that more unchangeable MAS stuff?)
00:41:57Zagoruh, did it ever do that?
00:42:04Bio_Hazardwhat is the VBR index?
00:42:10Bio_Hazardthe Archos FW did
00:42:38Zagorthe vbr index is used to find a time position in a variable bitrate file
00:43:02 Quit keithhub ("Leaving")
00:43:05Bio_Hazardand my MP3s with no gap still start kind of late
00:43:33Zagoryou compressed them with lame −−nogap?
00:43:37Bio_Hazardno
00:43:43Bio_Hazardthey came that way
00:43:46Zagorthen they have gaps
00:43:58Bio_Hazardthe sound starts immedaitly
00:44:19 Join ] [0] (~Neo@209.187.167.213)
00:44:28Bio_HazardBEMANI albums are made to have ZERO start gap (for Stepfile simplicity)
00:44:31 Join REBELinBLUE2 [0] (trilluser@modem-2494.chameleon.dialup.pol.co.uk)
00:44:41 Join tpelliott [0] (telliott@208.251.255.120)
00:44:49]can someone explain to me how to record through the included cable with the jukebox recorder 20
00:44:53REBELinBLUE2:/ ghosted names take a long time to time out on this server :|
00:44:54]record from a boombox?
00:45:34ZagorBio_Hazard: bemani?
00:45:53Bio_HazardBEMANI = Konami's Music Games OSTs
00:45:59 Quit ] (Client Quit)
00:46:00ZagorBio_Hazard: on cd?
00:46:03Bio_Hazardyea
00:46:17 Join Neo [0] (~Neo@209.187.167.213)
00:46:19Neohey
00:46:21Zagorthe cd is gapless. track-by-track rips to mp3 will not be.
00:46:30 Join earHurts [0] (~zic@pool-151-200-35-215.res.east.verizon.net)
00:46:34Neocan anyone explain to me how to record off a boombox
00:46:41Bio_Hazardwhen you rip them (with sevral rippers) the tracks are gapless
00:46:41Neowith the recorder 20
00:46:46Bio_Hazardnoe: ill explain
00:46:54ZagorBio_Hazard: no
00:46:54Bio_HazardNEO i mean :)
00:47:08earHurtsplug the boombox out into the recorder in
00:47:16Zagorwell, yes the wav files are gapless. the mp3 files are not.
00:47:19tpelliottIs there a Windows util that will quickly descramble and compress an AJZ file in one step for flashing?
00:47:19 Quit REBELinBLUE (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:47:20REBELinBLUE2Is there any techical reason why the charging icon doesn't just stop when it is fully charged?
00:47:31ZagorREBELinBLUE2: on fm?
00:47:40Bio_Hazardwell, rockbox starts late WimAmp dosent
00:47:52ZagorBio_Hazard: winamp cheats by crossfading
00:48:01Bio_Hazardnot between tracks
00:48:03Zagoryes
00:48:16Bio_Hazardi dont mean gaps between tracks
00:48:21earHurtsanyone have the a problem with playlist settings?
00:48:24Bio_Hazardi mean waveform
00:48:44Neothanks
00:48:49Zagorwaveform?
00:48:50REBELinBLUE2Zagor: Yes
00:48:58 Nick REBELinBLUE2 is now known as REBELinBLUE (trilluser@modem-2494.chameleon.dialup.pol.co.uk)
00:49:10ZagorREBELinBLUE2: we don't know when the fm stops charging, since it's all done in hardware.
00:49:30REBELinBLUEah right, so how can you tell if the battery level is 100% ?
00:49:31hardeepearHurts: what problems are you encountering?
00:49:31Zagorin fact, if I understand correctly, LiIon chargers never really stop. they just charge less.
00:49:39Bio_Hazardi see somebody found my fserve :)
00:49:46earHurtsrecursive gives me no options
00:50:05hardeepearHurts: hmmm, latest daily?
00:50:23earHurtswhat's archos doing when it tells me it's fully charged?
00:50:30earHurtsum.
00:50:42Neobio hazard: what color do i plug into the in to
00:50:42ZagorREBELinBLUE: umm, i don't think you can right now. Stevie found out how archos decides "charging complete" so we'll probably implement the same solution
00:50:49Neoand what do i plug the out to
00:50:50Bio_Hazardcolor?
00:50:53Neoyeh
00:50:54Neored
00:50:55Neowhite
00:50:59REBELinBLUEah right
00:50:59Neoor the black one
00:51:04Bio_Hazardred = right left = white
00:51:26Neoim tryin to plug from a headphone jack
00:51:58REBELinBLUEIts not a major thing, I just wondered cause currently I either unplug it or go to the info screen to see if it is fully charged. Wondered if it had just been overlooked if there was an actual reason for it
00:52:01Bio_Hazardare you trying to plug a RCA cable into a headphone jack?
00:52:10Neoyeh
00:52:12Neoi guess
00:52:13Bio_Hazardstop
00:52:17Neook
00:52:18Bio_Hazardit dosent work
00:52:22Neowhat?
00:52:28earHurts030709-0753
00:52:32Neoit sais u can record from any audio source
00:52:36Neoportable cd player
00:52:38Bio_HazardRCA cables plug into RCA jacks
00:52:41Neoyeh
00:52:46Bio_Hazardnot headphones
00:52:47 Join BoD[] [0] (~BoD@m232.net195-132-84.noos.fr)
00:52:50BoD[]hello !
00:52:51Neoi cant plug out of a cd player?
00:53:11Bio_Hazardwith the right cable you can
00:53:37earHurtswhat did stevie find archos is doing?
00:53:44Neothe red one?
00:53:45Bio_Hazardthe cable that comes with tha JB is for hooking up the JB to a streo (or something else with RCA)
00:54:02Neobut what do i need to record from a portable cd player
00:54:15ZagorearHurts: when one of the AD channels (was it 6?) go below 100, archos says "charging complete"
00:54:27Bio_Hazardwhat was the size of a HP jack 1\6in?
00:54:33Bio_Hazardor 3\4
00:54:38Neonot sure
00:54:44Neoit doenst fit in a headphone slot
00:54:45Neosmaller
00:54:48earHurtsthanks
00:55:01Bio_Hazardget one that is the same on both ends
00:55:12Bio_Hazard(i call em "Line Cables")
00:55:27earHurtsif it doesn't fit, you must acquit
00:55:30Bio_Hazard(usually "headphone patch cables")
00:55:59Bio_Hazardearhurts: or you could jerry-rig it like i do :)
00:56:11earHurtswhittle it down?
00:56:15Bio_Hazardno
00:56:22Bio_Hazardwire and tape :)
00:57:11earHurtsI was loking. Please mod me +1 funny
00:57:39Bio_Hazard?
00:57:55earHurtsslashdot allusion
00:58:05Bio_Hazardall my sound stuff is jerry-rigged :)
00:58:29earHurtshardeep?
00:58:35Bio_Hazardi currently have a Pioneer QX-949 Quad Reciver '76 hooked up to my comp
00:58:46Bio_Hazard4 channel
00:58:51earHurtsbig deal.
00:59:06earHurtsI have an 8 track connect to a VAX
00:59:21Bio_Hazardmy setup was $12 :P
00:59:33Bio_Hazardand DDR SPEAKERS! :D
00:59:42Bio_Hazard(with working neon)
00:59:47earHurtsmy was done by the keebler elves while I slept
00:59:48Bio_Hazardthose were expensive
01:00
01:00:12Bio_Hazard(none of you know what DDR SPEAKERS are do you?)
01:00:14hardeepearHurts: yes?
01:00:39earHurtsyou saw me give my rockbox version?
01:00:53earHurts <earHurts> 030709-0753
01:01:03hardeepearHurts: oh, hmmm
01:01:18Neoso now i cant record off anything besides something with the rca
01:01:19hardeepearHurts: nothing's changed in that code since first commit... did it ever work for you?
01:01:30Neohow much are those doulbe line things
01:01:41hardeepearHurts: oh wait, i take that back, i added a new option after first commit
01:01:49earHurtsI,m unsure. I know I set recursive on at one point
01:02:49hardeepearHurts: try resetting your settings
01:03:05hardeepearHurts: the change i made doesn't require a reset but maybe something got corrupt on yours
01:03:06earHurtshow?
01:03:21hardeepearHurts: there's an option off of general settings
01:04:13earHurtsstill the same. except all my settings are gone
01:04:27hardeepearHurts: er, gone?
01:04:35earHurtsreset
01:04:54earHurtsbut still no recursive options
01:04:59hardeepearHurts: hmmm, try a daily build just to make sure there isn't some problem with your build
01:05:07earHurtswill do
01:08:46earHurtszagor, I want to whinge about something
01:09:07 Join tracktheripper [0] (jirc@ACBE08BD.ipt.aol.com)
01:09:16tracktheripperhey
01:09:18tracktheripperevening
01:09:28ZagorearHurts: shoot
01:09:29earHurtshardeep: today's daily does the same thing
01:10:10hardeepearHurts: so you see absolutely nothing when you go playlist options->recursive directory insert?
01:11:02earHurtswhen you added my patch for id3, you made wps %in show the full track string
01:11:29earHurtshardeep: I see the label, but no options
01:11:31tracktheripperhi
01:11:51earHurtsI think %in should show the int, and %ir the string
01:11:54hardeepearHurts: what happens if you select up/down ?
01:12:16earHurtsnothing (ok, the backlight comes on)
01:12:43hardeepearHurts: blah, okay, i'll take a look to see what could be wrong
01:12:48 Quit BoD[] (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
01:13:04 Quit Neo ("Client exiting")
01:13:49earHurtsI wonder if you're using a setting that is otherwise used by fm specific settings in config block
01:14:34hardeepearHurts: nah, i took values that were previously being used for some resume options
01:14:37ZagorearHurts: yeah, maybe that was a mistake
01:15:28Zagori'm going to bed. night all.
01:15:30earHurtsit only shows up for anal retentives who use track in an "n/t" format
01:15:30 Quit Zagor ("Client exiting")
01:16:23earHurtshope my whinging didn't offend him
01:16:26MTye gods
01:16:33MTthats more anally retentive than me
01:17:10earHurtsoh dear, you should see what I do with TITq and TIT3
01:17:20earHurtsTIT1
01:18:52 Quit mecraw ("Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com)")
01:19:23tpelliottAnyone making a quick Windows util to turn a .ajz into a .ucl?
01:19:35 Quit joshn (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
01:19:51earHurtsdoesn't jeorg supply such a utility?
01:20:01earHurtsjoerg, rather?
01:20:51tpelliottOnly 2 command line utilities. One for descramble and one for compression.
01:21:33 Part REBELinBLUE
01:21:51earHurtsdescramble %1 > des.tmp
01:21:54tpelliottI guess I could write a batch file.
01:22:15earHurtscompress des.tmp > %2
01:22:24earHurtsrm des.tmp
01:22:59earHurtsand only because i don't have a pipe on my keyboard
01:24:40 Join akiaum [0] (~akiaum@host-01.jkey.arkansas.net)
01:24:43earHurtsanybody know where wps files are parsed?
01:25:37MTumm
01:25:42MTfollow the rabbit
01:25:47MTfrom tree.c
01:25:59MTis it not wps.c ?
01:26:07earHurtshello goodbye he's late
01:26:44earHurtsprolly
01:29:56 Quit Bio_Hazard (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:30:40 Part tpelliott
01:32:07earHurts
01:35:08akiaumanyone know how to configure the studio 10 jukebox with redhat 9?
01:41:08 Quit akiaum ("Client Exiting")
01:41:14 Join OMFG100038DKDDkd [0] (~the_yetti@ip68-8-155-134.sd.sd.cox.net)
01:41:45OMFG100038DKDDkdAny of the rockbox dev team available for questions?
01:42:34 Quit OMFG100038DKDDkd (Client Quit)
01:53:13 Quit tracktheripper ("Leaving")
01:53:42 Quit Guest2 ("Leaving")
01:57:03***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:00
02:26:35 Join Stevie-O [0] (whatsit2u@user-2inil6r.dialup.mindspring.com)
02:27:24earHurtshow's tricks, stevie?
02:27:40Stevie-Otricks are not doing so hot
02:28:06earHurtswhat's wrong?
02:48:03Stevie-Omh
02:49:11Stevie-Oi need the damn mapfile for this rombox build
03:00
03:08:46 Join diddystar5 [0] (Lee@AC872C5E.ipt.aol.com)
03:13:07earHurtsmph
03:13:31thukm/h
03:13:51earHurtsdamned old europeans
03:14:06earHurtsquick, donald rumsfeld!
03:14:13earHurtsset them up the bomb
03:15:36diddystar5earHurts: don't push yer luck :)
03:17:48earHurtsknow about wincvs?
03:18:33diddystar5i don't know i just use cvs on cygwin
03:18:54 Quit matsl (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
03:19:02earHurtswincvs is a windows gui for cvs
03:19:18earHurtsi run it in cooperation with cygwin cvs
03:20:04diddystar5im happy with a dark little window running cvs :)
03:20:43earHurtsit makes it easier to browse and see wjat's modified, etc.
03:21:57diddystar5i wish sf would fix that damn server problem i quit using cvs and i just get tarballs every days
03:22:19earHurtsyeah, I have to repeat and repeat, and ...
03:22:23MTi wish theyd fix it and run pserver cvs on a machine with uptodate cvs
03:23:15diddystar5i wish bjorn would quit using sf for a while and just use one of their servers
03:23:57earHurtsone of his own servers?
03:24:26diddystar5yes Linus had talked about doing that
03:25:19earHurtsmight be expensive
03:25:41diddystar5he says they have some servers at haxx
03:25:59earHurtswhat is haxx, anyway?
03:26:35Stevie-Oits like hax
03:26:37Stevie-Oonly with more x
03:26:57diddystar5thats the company Bjorn Linus and Daniel work at http://haxx.se/
03:27:06earHurtsstevie, we should do a routine at the improv together
03:27:25earHurtsnice of the company to supprt their hobby
03:28:13Stevie-Ooh
03:28:18Stevie-Oso that's how they all know each other?
03:28:24diddystar5yep
03:28:58earHurtsit's an aamzing project.
03:29:10earHurtsand so much better than archos
03:30:19earHurtsstevie, you use wincvs?
03:32:08diddystar5gotta go
03:32:11 Quit diddystar5 ("Gotta Go!")
03:42:25Stevie-OearHurts: occasionally
03:49:23 Join OMFG100038DKDDkd [0] (~the_yetti@ip68-8-155-134.sd.sd.cox.net)
03:49:46OMFG100038DKDDkdIs any of the Rockbox dev team present?
03:50:27 Quit OMFG100038DKDDkd (Client Quit)
03:55:47earHurtsstevie!
03:56:53Stevie-Owhat?
03:57:05***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
03:57:26earHurtsyou said: <Stevie-O> earHurts:
03:57:48Stevie-O<Stevie-O> earHurts: occasionally
03:59:17earHurtsah. my client didn't pick up the occasionally
03:59:28Stevie-Oodd
03:59:44earHurtsit's release 0.2
04:00
04:01:32Stevie-Olol
04:03:20Stevie-Ohey earHurts?
04:03:26earHurtsyeah?
04:03:34Stevie-Owhat is 4+24?
04:04:04earHurtsin decimal?
04:04:07Stevie-Oyeah
04:04:17earHurts28?
04:04:22Stevie-Ookay
04:04:40earHurtswhy?
04:04:43Stevie-OearHurts: 123
04:04:47Stevie-Odid you see the 123 there?
04:05:54earHurtsjust in your last line
04:06:00Stevie-Ohow about 2+44?
04:06:12earHurts46
04:06:19Stevie-Ohmm
04:06:50Stevie-Operhaps 2 + 18
04:07:24earHurtsyes, you seem to produce non printable characters, stevie
04:07:39Stevie-Othose are escape codes for bold and underline
04:07:58Stevie-O (2) toggles bold
04:08:05Stevie-O (31) toggles underline
04:08:07earHurtsthey show up in the irc log as characters my browser shows as default non-printable boxes
04:08:24earHurtsoh, the bold worked in 'toggles bold'
04:08:33Stevie-Obut not underline?
04:08:36earHurtsbut the underline did not
04:09:00earHurtsboth produced an unprintable in the log at haxx
04:09:07Stevie-Ook, what is the value of 2 + 2 + 2
04:09:31earHurts <Stevie-O> ok, what is the value of 2 + 2 + 2
04:09:38earHurts6
04:09:40Stevie-Oso you see that
04:10:27earHurtsyes, and the log and haxx shows it as 2 + 2 x+x 2
04:10:34Stevie-Orain : water as hail : <what> ?
04:10:39earHurtswhere x is an unprintable box
04:11:07earHurts <Stevie-O> rain : water as hail : <what> ?
04:11:12earHurtswater ice
04:11:16Stevie-Oso your client shows that?
04:11:38earHurtsyes. and haxx log shows unprintables
04:13:11earHurtsapparently your client tried to copy formatting when you copy nicks
04:13:41Stevie-Oarchos : rockbox as utter crap : <what> ?
04:14:05 Join Snorlax [0] (Snorlax@h234n2fls34o883.telia.com)
04:14:22earHurtsa stunning improvement
04:15:13 Quit Snorlax (Client Quit)
04:15:59Stevie-Ohm
04:16:00earHurtsugh.
04:16:06Stevie-Odunno what's broken then
04:16:16earHurtsgenre list is re
04:16:21earHurtsnevermind
04:29:34 Join Snorlax [0] (Snorlax@h234n2fls34o883.telia.com)
04:36:37earHurts stevie?
04:36:47 Join tpelliott [0] (telliott@208.251.255.120)
04:37:10earHurtswho here is a rockbox programmer?
04:39:13earHurts any idea how much stack I can grab in a function, safely?
04:39:20 Join midknight2k3 [0] (jirc@12-229-204-15.client.attbi.com)
04:39:23midknight2k3hi earHurts
04:39:27midknight2k3me no rockbox programmer
04:39:50earHurtshi midk
04:40:04earHurtswe must get you programming midk
04:41:54midknight2k3yers
04:42:08midknight2k3i promised zagger i would learn C soon
04:42:09midknight2k3:D
04:42:34earHurtswell, get a compiler then
04:42:57midknight2k3uh
04:43:01midknight2k3i need that book
04:43:05midknight2k3"Learn C Today:
04:43:10midknight2k3it sounds very good
04:43:25midknight2k3i forgot who it was that mentioned it but he told me he was reading it
04:43:29earHurtsget k&r if you want to learn
04:43:35earHurtsC
04:43:42midknight2k3isn'
04:43:46midknight2k3t rockbox c?
04:43:50earHurtsget accelerated c++ for c++
04:43:54midknight2k3or c++ and is there a differents
04:43:57earHurtsrockbox is c
04:43:58midknight2k3goood
04:44:00midknight2k3i mean
04:44:02midknight2k3grrr
04:44:02midknight2k3lol
04:44:04midknight2k3haha
04:44:08earHurtsc++ is an extension of c
04:44:09midknight2k3i said good i meant grr
04:44:16midknight2k3rockbox is c.
04:44:20earHurtsyes
04:44:21midknight2k3i need what now?
04:44:26earHurtsk&r
04:44:50earHurtsk&r = kernighan & ritchie
04:45:05earHurtsthey designed the language
04:45:18earHurtsit's a slim book, and easy to read
04:45:24midknight2k3you read it?
04:45:32earHurtsget a modern edition though
04:45:39midknight2k3you can program rockbox now?
04:45:40earHurtsyes, I eead it.
04:45:43midknight2k3yee!
04:45:59earHurtsI contributed the new id3 patch
04:46:27midknight2k3neat
04:46:38earHurtssimple really
04:46:54midknight2k3what's the book name? lol
04:47:00earHurtsI just took repetitous code and bioled it down to a data structure
04:47:14earHurtsthe C programming language
04:47:29midknight2k3i see
04:47:46midknight2k3second edition
04:48:14earHurtsyeah, I think that's ok
04:48:32earHurtsthe C language has changed a bit
04:48:45earHurtsbut k&r is still the best start
04:49:53earHurtsnever ever read any book by herb schildt
04:50:25midknight2k3herb schildt?
04:50:30midknight2k3am i supposed to know him?
04:50:37thuwhat processor does the archos have again?
04:50:45thush-4?
04:51:02earHurtssh1 i think. not sure
04:51:17thuoh.. sh-1
04:51:26earHurtsbut c is c, doesn't much matter the processor
04:51:37earHurtsthat's the point of the language
04:52:22midknight2k3I think I let you two fight it out
04:52:47thuI was just looking at a dev suite that claims to work with sh-4s
04:53:03thusounded familiar but I guess it's not quite what's inside an archos
04:53:08midknight2k3booo
04:54:01earHurtsi'm waiting for stevie's emulator
04:54:30midknight2k3?
04:54:47thuqnx is cool
04:54:52thuespecially for embedded devices
04:55:36earHurtsqnx?
04:55:46thuwww.qnx.com
04:55:51thureal time operating system
04:55:55earHurtsah
04:56:01thufeaturing a nice small microkernel
04:56:07thusupposedly really stable
04:56:20thuthey also have a dev suite now
04:56:22thubased on eclipse
04:56:26thumm
04:56:32thuand their user interface looks good
04:56:36thuthat's all I know about it
04:56:43earHurtshmm
04:56:44midknight2k3lol
04:56:48earHurtsfree?
04:56:54midknight2k3link to picture of interface?
04:56:55thuoh and it's posix-compliant
04:56:59thuso you can port stuff to it
04:57:04earHurtsnice.
04:57:09thumidknight2k3: thu/qnx1.png">http://www.sgnx.net/~thu/qnx1.png
04:57:10midknight2k3BYE
04:57:16earHurtsbyr
04:57:25midknight2k3FASKERNATING!
04:57:44midknight2k3I SHALL LUV TO HAV ONE OF TOSE OH-ESS's
04:57:49midknight2k3:)
04:57:49 Quit midknight2k3 ("Leaving")
04:57:50thuoh-ess?
04:57:54thuuh?
04:58:04thuearHurts: translation?
04:58:13thuooh OS
04:58:24thuearHurts: yeah it's free for "hobbyists"
04:58:31thuearHurts: you gotta pay for commercial usage though
04:58:49earHurtserm
04:59:59thunot impressed, eh?
05:00
05:00:47thuI'm still looking for a semi-good reason to run qnx around the house
05:00:52earHurtsno, not that.
05:01:06earHurtsI'm just thinking about something else
05:01:18thumm thinking
05:01:24thuI've gotta try that sometimes
05:01:26earHurtsI need a tree. preferably self balancing
05:01:42thumost trees are self balancing
05:01:44earHurtsthat doesn't use dynamic memory
05:01:49thuyou just plant them and they grow straight up
05:02:16earHurtsI did port an avl tree to basic once
05:02:21thucan't help you much there.. I'm not even done with my introduction to data structures course yet
05:02:28*thu is working on huffman trees now
05:02:44earHurtshuffman trees are cool
05:02:51thuI'm still trying to figure out how huffman compression works
05:02:58thuyeah.. it's pretty fun
05:03:06earHurtsfor some dumbass reason, i wrote by own encoder and decoder
05:03:07thuI don't like java file access though
05:03:30thumy dumbass reason is called "assignment"
05:03:35earHurtsand a prog to emit c for the encoder
05:03:59thuuh?
05:04:09earHurtsI should have just downloaded some gpl'd source, but I was looking to use it on a palm pilot
05:04:55earHurtsthe huffman encoding and decoding can be done using arrays mapping from huffman code to clear text and vice versa
05:04:55thuI need to implement a huffman archiver in java
05:05:14thuyeah.. we have a bunch of style requirements though
05:05:20earHurtsso my prog emitted those arrays
05:05:30earHurtsafter analyzing a corpus
05:05:53earHurtsI got a several MB corpus of usenet postings
05:06:12earHurts93 MB? something like that
05:06:21thucan't you analyze the actual file to be encoded?
05:06:27earHurtssure
05:06:41earHurtsbut a small sample might be unbalanced
05:06:57earHurtsI didn't want to dynamically huffman encode
05:07:06thuy not?
05:07:20 Quit Stevie-O (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
05:07:21earHurtsas I worried it would be too slow on the 33mhz palm
05:07:21thuwouldn't it be more efficient?
05:07:31thumm I guess I don't have to worry about speed
05:07:37thuas I'm writing in java for PCs
05:07:40earHurtsit would be more efficient, yes
05:07:54thumm yeah but then I have to store the table in the file
05:08:02earHurtsbut it's faster to do array access
05:08:19thuwhat can you do about binary files?
05:08:27earHurtsand, yes, there's the table overhead
05:08:31thumy guidelines talk about chars in ascii
05:08:47thubut what can you do when you have random bit sequences as in a binary file?
05:09:04earHurtswell, the whole point of huffman encoding is that some chars are much more common than others
05:09:16thuthat works fine for ascii text
05:09:26thujust thinking of the vowels and various marks
05:09:29earHurtsif that doesn't obtain, huffman's less efficient
05:09:54earHurtsof course mp3s use huffman encoding, iirc
05:10:05earHurtsvowels and punc are no problem
05:10:20thuthey're good because they repeat a lot
05:10:48earHurtsyes, and even degenerate cases aren't too bad
05:11:01thuI guess I can add -fast and -dynamic switches
05:11:14earHurtsit's the encoded alphabet size that egts you
05:11:20thuhow come?
05:11:28thuyeah what if the file is in unicode for example
05:11:49 Part tpelliott
05:11:52earHurtswell, the bigger the alphabet, the smaller the encodings
05:12:05thuthere is something I don't get
05:12:13earHurtswhat's that?
05:12:22thutaking a regular ascii file
05:12:27earHurtsuhuh
05:12:29thusome letters like As appear a lot
05:12:34thuso I assign them a 3-bit code
05:12:36earHurtssure
05:12:44thuso I have 8 choices
05:12:54earHurtsyeah?
05:12:54thuwhat happens with the other chars that appear in the file?
05:13:18earHurtsI'm not sure I understand
05:13:24thudo I need to have all chars that occur in the file in my translation table?
05:13:33thuor do I just replace _some_ of them with shorter codes?
05:13:34earHurtswell, sure
05:13:48earHurtsno, you encode them all
05:14:03thuthat's awfully inefficient
05:14:05earHurtsremember, the huffman encoding has no stops
05:14:17thuI see
05:14:19earHurtsso each prefix must be unique
05:14:24thumeh that sucks
05:14:44earHurtsbecause you can't say, oh, the character ends here
05:14:57earHurtsso no random access either
05:15:23earHurtsbut you're not actually assigning a code for 'a' are you??
05:15:26thummhm so if I add some sort of stops it's not huffman anymore?
05:15:35earHurtsexactly
05:15:37thunah I was just using that as an example
05:15:56earHurtsyour encoder builder assigns the codes
05:16:05earHurtsbased on frequency
05:16:19thuof course
05:16:27thuwhat if..
05:16:29thumm lemme see
05:16:37earHurtsfirst, you find the frequency of each possible letter
05:16:39thulet's say I work with 8-bit words
05:16:45thuthat ar normally ascii chars
05:16:48thuare
05:16:50earHurtsok
05:16:58thuwhat if I add an extra bit to each word
05:17:07thuthat says whether it's a full char or 2 4-bit codes
05:17:17thuwould that be huffman?
05:17:23earHurtsthen it's not huffman encoded
05:17:42earHurtsyou're missing the beauty of huffman
05:17:45thubut it would be slightly more efficient
05:17:56earHurtsno, it would not be
05:18:07thuI don't see how huffman saves me that much
05:18:14earHurtsyou'd have to pay for the extra bit
05:18:15thuonly if the file contains few sequences that allow me to reduce the word
05:18:32thubut if I have a lot of different sequences I'll end up redefining ascii
05:18:36thustill with 8 bits
05:18:43earHurtsno!
05:18:48thuhow come?
05:19:04earHurtsno, the most frequent char (except in degenerate cases)
05:19:19earHurtswill use only a few bits, or pne
05:19:21earHurtsone
05:19:42thuuuh?
05:19:45thuwhat do you mean one bit?
05:20:06earHurtsI mean that one bit will represent the letter e
05:20:06thuin my end file don't all chars have the same size?
05:20:09thubut smaller than 8 bits?
05:20:10earHurtsNO
05:20:25thuhow can I tell a one-bit char from a two-bit char then?
05:20:34thuI think I got this all wrong
05:20:45earHurtsthw beauty of huffman is that frequent chars will use fewere bits
05:20:59thuhow can you tell chars apart then??
05:21:07thuif they are different sizes
05:21:07earHurtsyou can tell because each prefix is unique
05:21:17thuwhat prefix?
05:21:43thuokay here's how I got it and you tell me what's wrong
05:21:44earHurtsif a charcter is represnted by some bit patter,
05:21:52earHurtspattern
05:22:09earHurtsNO other charcter can start with that pattern
05:22:29thubut say we're dealing with a standard ascii file
05:22:29earHurtsso if you see that pattern' it MUST be the char
05:22:34thucomposed of only As and Bs
05:22:40earHurtsyes, a standard ascii
05:22:46earHurtsonlt a and b
05:22:52thuinstead of using 8 bits for each char
05:23:01thuI can use only one throughout the file
05:23:01earHurtsyou use 1
05:23:05thubecause I map A=0 B=1
05:23:06earHurtssure.
05:23:14thuokay let's say we have a, b,c ,d
05:23:18earHurtsnow add C
05:23:21earHurtsjust C
05:23:22thu2 bits / char in the encoded file
05:23:25earHurtsfor now
05:23:27thuokay just C
05:23:30earHurtsNO!
05:23:35thuA=00, B=01, C=10
05:23:50thuor.. is it?
05:23:57earHurtslet's say the file is 50% a, 30% b 20% C
05:24:01thuok
05:24:13thuyou still have A and B at 1 bit / char?
05:24:20earHurtsthen a=0, b=10, c= 11
05:24:31earHurtsno, prefix property
05:24:39earHurtsonly a is one bit
05:24:58thuhow does this go for 3 bits?
05:25:08earHurtsnow, following my code, what is:
05:25:08thupresuming alphabetic order = distribution count
05:25:19thua=0, b=10, c=11, d=?
05:25:30earHurts0001001011?
05:25:40earHurtsno, frequency
05:25:46thuaaababc
05:25:53earHurtscorrect!
05:25:58thuokay how do you do it for 3 bits?
05:26:03thuI'm beginning to get it
05:26:18earHurtsno three bits. tell me frequency
05:26:27thua,b,c,d,e
05:26:30thuin this order
05:26:37earHurtsno, frequency
05:26:49earHurtsorder doesn't matter to huffman
05:26:56earHurtsfrequency matters
05:27:14thu30% a, 30% b, 20% c, 15% d, 5% e
05:27:32earHurtsokay, first we build a tree
05:27:42thuright
05:28:06thuooh I get it
05:28:12thuso in this case A and B will have the same prefix
05:28:18thubecause they will be in the same subtree
05:28:23earHurtsuh, yeah
05:28:25thubecause they have the same frequency
05:28:34thumm ok I get it now
05:28:36thusomewhat
05:28:38earHurtsit's indeterminate for this tree
05:28:46earHurtsas we have ties
05:28:51thuindeterminate?
05:28:54earHurtsyeah
05:29:00thumm right
05:29:17earHurtsd+e, a and b all have the same weight
05:29:43thubut the prefix will be the same for a and b
05:29:58earHurtsok
05:30:01 Join Stevie-O [0] (whatsit2u@user-2inil6r.dialup.mindspring.com)
05:30:06thucool
05:30:33thuI'll go read the algorithm for building the tree now
05:30:36thuthanks a lot!
05:30:49earHurtshuffman's breakthrough was fingering out that the tree assigms the code
05:31:13earHurtsbefore, huffman they did what you did, tried to assign values
05:31:29thuyeah.. I'm looking at a tree now and I see how it's set up
05:31:33thuand how the prefixes come up
05:31:37earHurtshuffman was in undergrad at mit when he cam up with his algo
05:32:12earHurtsyou understand the necessity of the prefix property?
05:32:31thuwell if the prefixes weren't unique then there would be no way to tell chars apart
05:32:39earHurtsright!
05:32:47thusweet
05:32:48earHurtsbecuase there are no stops
05:32:57earHurtsvery sweet!
05:33:23earHurtsyou want to really bloe your min, look up boyer-moore
05:33:32earHurtsblow...mind
05:33:48thuI'll look it up after I finish huffman
05:34:01earHurtsstevie, where can I find a statically allocated self balancing tree?
05:34:26earHurtsyeah, writing your huffman encoder will be fun
05:35:33thuyeah it's the first worthwile assignment in this course
05:35:51earHurtswhat' s the course?
05:36:01thuintroduction to data structures
05:36:11earHurtscs 101?
05:36:21thu201
05:36:26thu101 teaches java
05:36:34earHurtsI never got past 201
05:36:48earHurtsso I never got to stidy huffman
05:37:09thuthey're killing us with project management
05:37:13earHurtsbut the 101 book had a section on it
05:37:19thubut occasionally we have to do fun stuff like this
05:37:35earHurtsproject managemnt's important but boring
05:37:39thutrue
05:38:02earHurtsI never got passed 201 because I got a job coding
05:38:08thuI'd rather be writing code than user manuals and object tables
05:38:20earHurtsso I still only have a BA in history
05:38:24thuI'm trying to do both but I'm sorta in between jobs right now
05:38:41earHurtsschool's part time?
05:38:54thuwork's part time
05:39:02earHurtswhat's your text?
05:39:06thutext?
05:39:19earHurtsdata structures text
05:39:26thudata abstraction and problem solving with java
05:39:35earHurtshm.
05:39:47earHurtsmine was 'working classes'
05:39:48thubyyy.. someone under the 'used book' sticker
05:39:53earHurtsit's pretty good
05:40:15thuthis one is not great but we have a few others in the library that are better
05:40:18earHurtsmy edition was c++ and smalltalk
05:40:29thunever saw smalltalk in my life
05:40:32earHurtsbut I bet they have a java one now
05:41:03earHurtsmight be worth getting it. very clear discussion of huffman
05:41:24thuI wrote it down.. I'll look for it next time I'm in the lib
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05:41:37earHurtscool
05:41:56earHurtsyou get oliverklozoff, oliver?
05:42:07thuwell.. off to work I go
05:42:14thuthanks for the heads up on huffman
05:42:15earHurtssee ya
05:42:19earHurtsnp
05:42:32*thu is away: codito ergo sum
05:43:03 Quit hardeep ("BitchX: often imitated, never duplicated!")
05:49:27OliverKlozofflol
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05:57:58earHurtsstevie, where can I find a statically allocated tree?
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06:00
06:18:32OliverKlozoff???
06:18:39OliverKlozoffdid you try a forest?
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06:29:10 Join pschyo122 [0] (~the@12-233-15-195.client.attbi.com)
06:30:15pschyo122HELP
06:30:26pschyo122i just got the bleeding edge version of rockbox
06:31:09pschyo122and it added games but says cannot load /kbox/rocks/bounce.rock
06:31:30pschyo122should i get rid of the .rockbox folder from the official download?
06:32:09pschyo122i downloaded the rocks for the folder
06:32:29pschyo122i even made a folder called kbox and put rocks in in but still nothing
06:32:50pschyo122i tried to make .rocks but windows won't let me it says must specify file name
06:43:29pschyo122never mind
06:44:09pschyo122btw anyone have the file ch8ajbrec.ajz
06:44:18pschyo122its the compiled chips 8 emulator
06:48:00pschyo122???
06:55:47pschyo122whats with the new rockbox i get bigger battery loss with it
07:00
07:00:50adi|homethere is no ch8ajbrec.ajz
07:01:07adi|homeas for the 'new version' i don't notice any difference in battery loss
07:05:23pschyo122actually
07:05:30pschyo122if you check the comments under the chips 8 emulator
07:05:43pschyo122one guy says he got a guy to compile it for him the site he gave was
07:06:12pschyo122http://www.kitejumping.org/ch8ajbrec.ajz
07:06:18pschyo122but it doesn't work
07:27:26adi|homeright.. there is no ch8 version
07:27:46adi|homepatches are intended for develpers to play with...not for general consumption..
07:27:49adi|homeplay at your own risk
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09:55:30Guestanyone awake?
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13:30:35matslI have seem to have gotten myself a bad FAT table. What is the cure?
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15:35:18*Stevie[FP] is back from [(Auto-Away after 1hr)] [gone 22hrs 11mins 22secs] [KS]
15:47:17Stevie[FP]which dir do i put these rocks in?
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15:59:14 Join JoeK [0] (~thedude@diamond2.jvlnet.com)
15:59:52JoeKhi. had a quick question for you guys.
16:00
16:00:15JoeKis it possible to get a replacement battery/extended capacity battery for the archos FM recorder?
16:00:18Stevie[FP]hopefully its got a quick answer
16:00:22JoeK;)
16:00:26Stevie[FP][a] not officially
16:00:33Stevie[FP][b] some companies can build you a replacement
16:00:39JoeKlooking for extended playtimes, without hacking a USB-battery pack together.
16:00:54Stevie[FP][c] you really shouldn't need a replacement, the battery has a lifetime warranty
16:01:17Stevie[FP][d] I think someone here who can solder should setup a mini business installing 8mb chips
16:01:18Stevie[FP]:D
16:01:41JoeKsign me up! i dont have the coordination for surface mount stuff ;)
16:02:38JoeKhmmm... thanks for the info. maybe i can track down one of my EE friends to do some soldering.
16:02:48JoeKforgot about the performance increase from the ram update.
16:02:49Stevie[FP]i don't have the stable hands
16:02:52Stevie[FP]my hands are very shaky
16:02:59Stevie[FP]ps
16:03:05Stevie[FP]the default in rockbox is 1500mah
16:03:17Stevie[FP]but the fm has a 2200mah battery
16:03:36JoeKahh! thanks! :)
16:03:47Stevie[FP]that's just for the 'time remaining' display tho
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16:04:18 Part TotMacher
16:04:22JoeKthe new plugin stuff sounds great BTW. im sure some great things will come from that.
16:04:37JoeKkeep up the good work!
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17:03:48*Stevie[FP] is away [(Auto-Away after 1hr)] [KS-MsgLog Off]
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17:21:46Stevie[FP]meh
17:21:53Stevie[FP]where be Z or L
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17:48:25_aLFhi
17:48:33hardeephello
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18:01:23Stevie[FP]meh
18:22:18 Join ILuvit [0] (~ydouneedi@ool-18bfc352.dyn.optonline.net)
18:22:52ILuvitHi guys
18:28:56Stevie[FP]whatdoyouluv?
18:32:19ILuviti luv the RocBox
18:32:43 Quit thu ("Client exiting")
18:35:06ILuviti wish Archos had put a blue backlight for the LCD like the MOJO from TDK
18:40:43ILuvithas anyone come up with a remote for the FM Recorder 20
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18:46:39 Join _aLF [0] (Alexandre@AGrenoble-203-1-19-102.w81-53.abo.wanadoo.fr)
18:47:10ILuvitHi guys wat time does this channel fill up?
19:00
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20:07:11 Join Zagor [242] (bjst@as9-5-6.k.s.bonet.se)
20:11:17Stevie[FP]yo
20:11:25Zagorhi
20:11:27ricIIhi
20:11:29Stevie[FP]how goes it
20:11:46ricIIabout to flash my rec..
20:11:55Stevie[FP]i gotta question
20:12:03Zagortoday was my last day at work. now i have three weeks of vacation.
20:12:10Stevie[FP]I think I have a method that might make opening files faster
20:12:23Zagori'm listening
20:12:30Stevie[FP]I want to compare it to the existing method
20:12:43Stevie[FP]and I think a good measure of that would be to have a root.m3u
20:12:48Stevie[FP]of the entire disk
20:13:08Stevie[FP]then simulate a shuffled play
20:13:34ricIIwell that was painless...\
20:13:40Stevie[FP]and open() each file in the order the shuffle gives me
20:13:53ZagorStevie[FP]: yup
20:14:04Stevie[FP]doing it first for the one method, then again for the other
20:14:14Stevie[FP]and doing the same shuffle order each time
20:14:47Stevie[FP]the problem is that I don't understand the shuffle code well enough to do that
20:15:06Stevie[FP]I figured I'd do it by throwing in a debug menu
20:15:25Stevie[FP]and using the RTC to wallclock it
20:15:52Zagorthe tick counter would work too
20:16:02Stevie[FP]yeah
20:16:06Stevie[FP]the question I have is
20:16:23Stevie[FP]how can I simulate playing through an entire playlist without actually playing the files?
20:16:44ricIImake them 0sec..
20:16:46Stevie[FP]and I'd also need to be able to reset and play through again with the same sequence
20:17:33 Join midknight2k3 [0] (WinNT@12-229-204-15.client.attbi.com)
20:17:43midknight2k3hello
20:17:50Stevie[FP]ok, it is after 2pm here and i have had no food
20:17:52Stevie[FP]i'm starved
20:17:56*Stevie[FP] is back from [(Auto-Away after 1hr)] [gone 3hrs 14mins 7secs] [KS]
20:17:57*Stevie[FP] is away [FOOD] [KS-MsgLog Off]
20:17:58Stevie[FP]bbl
20:18:02midknight2k3bye
20:18:06midknight2k3even though you can't see me
20:20:12ZagorStevie[FP]: i would patch firmware/mpeg.c to not actually play each file, but instead just request next and next. or, patch apps/playlist.c to not call mpeg_play() but instead call playlist_next() over and over
20:20:59midknight2k3Um...
20:21:06Zagorplaying the same sequence is simple, just call playlist_randomise() with the same seed every time
20:21:07midknight2k3maybe when I learn C i will understand that
20:21:11Zagorhehe
20:21:16midknight2k3:)
20:21:41midknight2k3is that what would be involved in coding rockbox?
20:21:54midknight2k3mpeg_play90 and playlist_randomize90 etc?
20:21:57midknight2k3oops
20:22:00midknight2k390=()
20:22:03ricIII just don;t understand why a radom playlist would be any differnt from a normal one..
20:22:12Zagorwell, there's quite a lot of code in rockbox...
20:22:43midknight2k3but it would be basic words like that
20:22:45ZagorricII: you're right, it wouldn't
20:22:53midknight2k3not that 00032x0Fe stuff
20:22:58Zagormidknight2k3: yes
20:23:12midknight2k3yes it would be the words or yes it's numbers, or both?
20:23:19midknight2k3this is confusing
20:23:36Zagorit's words, with a bit of numbers... :)
20:23:45midknight2k3yay!
20:24:11midknight2k3now I need C teaching book
20:24:29ricIImost other lang. look a lot like C ..
20:24:33Zagormidknight2k3: this is what the rockbox startup code looks like: http://rockbox.haxx.se/apps/main.c
20:24:41midknight2k3I can't open it!
20:24:50midknight2k3how do I open them C files
20:24:51Zagorthen save it as a text file
20:25:02midknight2k3change it to a text file?
20:25:16midknight2k3i see
20:25:18midknight2k3i see now
20:26:39midknight2k3very complicated I see
20:27:03Zagorit's not *that* complex. the first function is main() at the bottom of the file.
20:27:10midknight2k3what's the difference between the C and H files
20:27:21Zagoreach word that ends with a parenthesis is a function call.
20:27:26midknight2k3yeah i was going to say, doesn't look too hard cause it's pretty repetitive
20:27:29ricIIif app_main() returns flash the red led..
20:28:43midknight2k3what's the difference between the C and H files?
20:28:48Zagormidknight2k3: try one of the free c programming courses on the net. here's one: http://www.strath.ac.uk/IT/Docs/Ccourse/
20:29:30ricIIheader files are used to define things, so they can be used on other places..
20:29:34midknight2k3i'll give it a shot
20:29:39Zagormidknight2k3: the C files contains functions, while the H files just tell other C files which functions exist.
20:30:08midknight2k3I'm sure I'll get it soon enough
20:30:10midknight2k3lol
20:33:44ricIIthe bookmark reintegration is on bagder's list?
20:34:05midknight2k3where is bagders list?
20:34:41ricIIpatches on sourceforge..
20:34:59ZagorricII: yes. he's on vacation right now though
20:35:29midknight2k3should 2.1 not be released soon?
20:35:45ricIIeuh we skipped that I belive..
20:36:10Zagorhehe, yeah we've sorta ran past it... but next release will be called 2.1 anyway.
20:36:48midknight2k3it should be 3.0!
20:36:53Zagorhowever I don't consider the code release ready at the moment. flash needs to be stabilised, and there's still people reporting problems with the new playlist code. and i'd like to get some more of the potential plugin patches in.
20:37:15midknight2k3new plugins? oh boy!
20:37:25midknight2k3:D
20:37:44Zagorwell i guess there are reasons enough for calling it 3.0, but I think it would feel a bit silly (or is it "Microsoftish") to release 2.0 and then immediately 3.0.
20:38:05midknight2k3yeah
20:38:18midknight2k3if only you did a 2.1 before the plugin loader...
20:38:24Zagorwhy?
20:38:37midknight2k3then it would be a bit easier to call it 3.0
20:38:41Zagorah
20:39:00ricIIwe will end up in notime with rockbox2004
20:39:14midknight2k3would it be less microsoftish to go to 4.0?
20:39:19Zagorwell the releases aren't terribly important anyway. our daily builds are so stable people can run them most of the time.
20:39:43Zagormidknight2k3: actually, that would be *really* MSish. remember they went from word 2.0 to 6.0 in one go...
20:40:04midknight2k3I like seeing "&ROCKBOX" then "Version X.X" not "Ver. CVS-056465027894352345"
20:40:18midknight2k3then it's not too bad to do 2.0 to 3.0
20:40:29ricIII disagree ,,, ik like cvs-
20:40:40midknight2k3it would seem neat a big step in the project, up a whole number in one go
20:40:54midknight2k3ricII, I was sort of joking
20:41:00midknight2k3heh
20:42:02ricIIbesides having people run cvs gives a lot of feedback.
20:42:03midknight2k3how about 2.5?
20:42:12midknight2k3version numbers are tough
20:42:21midknight2k3ill be right back
20:42:23Zagorno, it's either 2.1 or 3.0
20:42:36Zagorversion numbers are incremented, not just selected at random
20:43:04midknight2k3i know
20:43:26midknight2k3I got one more try: 2.794?
20:44:09midknight2k3MT
20:44:27midknight2k3aren't you the one who did the charging animation patch?
20:45:16 Join diddystar5 [0] (Lee@AC8E3A7A.ipt.aol.com)
20:46:16diddystar5Zagor: where is sokoban_levels.txt? i can't play sokoban without it, otherwise i get the error!
20:46:51midknight2k3erm
20:47:08midknight2k3http://rockbox.haxx.se/levels.txt
20:47:32diddystar5umm k why are they there?
20:47:42midknight2k3no idea
20:47:56midknight2k3i guess so you can make custom levels
20:48:08midknight2k3or so they don't take up needed firmware space
20:48:21midknight2k3either way, you can make custom levels
20:48:23midknight2k3it's neat
20:48:44diddystar5i'm not very good at making levels i tried once
20:48:50midknight2k3lol
20:49:32Zagori guess i should include that in the rocks.zip
20:49:44midknight2k3Zagor: what is this "BMP2RB" i keep hearing
20:50:08Zagorit's a tool to convert a bmp file to rockbox bitmap format
20:50:09midknight2k3hello
20:50:13diddystar5that is the tool that concerts bdf fonts into rb fonts
20:50:13midknight2k3oops
20:50:26midknight2k3so what is it used for?
20:50:30Zagordiddystar5: no, that's convbdf
20:50:53Zagormidknight2k3: nothing. it was used for the boot logo, that's all
20:51:06midknight2k3could I make a custom boot logo?
20:51:07Zagorprobably also the usb logo
20:51:10Zagoryes
20:51:16midknight2k3how neat
20:51:16Zagorbut you need to replace it in the code
20:51:40diddystar5Zagor: which file has the boot logo?
20:51:50midknight2k3rockbox could have a program for that, you just make the image and it converts it and puts it as default or something
20:52:41Zagordiddystar5: apps/recorder/icons.c
20:52:51diddystar5Zagor: thanks
20:53:43midknight2k3who made the rockbox logo?
20:53:46midknight2k3it's very neat
20:54:36Zagora friend of mine, thomas saeys
20:54:47Zagorhe works with computer graphics design
20:55:05midknight2k3neat
20:55:25midknight2k3i still wish to take screenshots
20:55:36midknight2k3i need to compile the UISIMULATOR
20:56:38diddystar5midknight2k3: why can't you make the simulator?
20:57:17midknight2k3i dont know how
20:57:19midknight2k3im trying to
20:58:31diddystar5you need a complete devolpment enviroment
20:58:53midknight2k3i heard already lol
20:59:03midknight2k3what's considered complete?
20:59:08diddystar5i think roland has quit his full devel enviroment
20:59:32midknight2k3awg, forget it
20:59:56midknight2k3Zagor, can't the simulators be compiled and put up with daily builds?
21:00
21:00:23Zagorthey are, for linux. we can't build the win32 version.
21:00:25diddystar5gotta go lunch time
21:00:27 Quit diddystar5 ("Gotta Go!")
21:00:29Zagor...since we run linux
21:00:34midknight2k3oh
21:00:55Zagoractually it should be possible, and we try, but it fails for some reason that we haven't had time to dig into
21:03:30midknight2k3i'll be back in a few
21:12:56*Stevie[FP] is back from [FOOD] [gone 54mins 58secs] [KS]
21:13:00*Stevie[FP] returns
21:13:17Stevie[FP][15:01] <Zagor> ...since we run linux
21:13:21Stevie[FP][15:01] <Zagor> actually it should be possible
21:13:30Stevie[FP]which is obvious, since damn near anything is possible in Linux
21:13:34Zagorhehe
21:13:37Stevie[FP]because even if it isn't
21:13:43Stevie[FP]pico -w /usr/src/linux/file.c
21:13:54Zagoryup
21:14:05Stevie[FP]I work with devices that plug into vending machines
21:14:32Stevie[FP]I have a modified device that plugs in and "sniffs" the wires and reports changes out the serial port, for diagnostic purposes
21:15:52Stevie[FP]the output is in binary to minimize the cpu usage and increase its ability to respond to several rapid changes (which may happen a few microseconds apart)
21:16:53Stevie[FP]I decode the outut by plugging hooking the serial port up to a laptop that has Debian, and running
21:16:58Stevie[FP]perl decode.pl < /dev/ttyS0
21:17:41Stevie[FP]At first we tried Windows but its serial support sux
21:17:43mecrawmy interaction with vending machines is much simpler
21:17:50Stevie[FP]mecraw: i'll bet
21:17:54Stevie[FP]kick the machine?
21:18:07mecrawinsert coins... probe for desired product... consume product
21:18:08midknight2k3hello
21:18:11Stevie[FP]my work involves swearing at the machine
21:18:26Zagorswearing is an important part of any tech work
21:18:30Stevie[FP]because they're so good at violating specs
21:18:39mecrawwhat job doesn't involve swearing at a machine?
21:18:41ricIIyup
21:18:50Zagormecraw: true
21:19:50Stevie[FP]mh
21:19:51ricIIit will be part of my new job discription..
21:19:58Stevie[FP]playlist_insert_playlist
21:20:08Stevie[FP]is that what I'd use to load the playlist?
21:20:53Stevie[FP]<mecraw> what job doesn't involve swearing at a machine? <- QA
21:21:31ricIIStevie[FP] no it inserts a filename into the indices.
21:21:38Zagorno, playlist_create(currdir, file->name) and then playlist_start(start_index,0);
21:22:01mecrawStevie[FP]: not in our QA department ("This #$%^^& app $#$%in' blows")
21:23:42Stevie[FP]mecraw: then they're not doing it right
21:23:48Stevie[FP]QA involves sacrificing small goats
21:24:20ricIIand for big things you will need virgins..
21:24:24*Stevie[FP] rubs his head
21:24:28Stevie[FP]i don't understand this
21:24:38Stevie[FP]so if my playlist were in /playlists/blah.m3u
21:24:49Stevie[FP]i would call playlist_create("/playlists", "blah.m3u") ?
21:25:34*Stevie[FP] notes that the comment, "Create new playlist" is painfully useless
21:25:38 Join tracktheripper [0] (jirc@ACBC7A8E.ipt.aol.com)
21:25:45tracktheripperhi
21:25:49midknight2k3hi
21:26:32ricIImaybe it sould read create internal playlist
21:26:57Stevie[FP]maybe it should tell me wtf it does and wtf the parameters need to be
21:26:58Stevie[FP]:)
21:27:14Stevie[FP]the latter I consider slightly more important right now
21:27:50Zagorplaylist_create("/playlists", "blah.m3u") is correct
21:28:10Stevie[FP]i don't get it
21:28:18Stevie[FP]why does it want the dir and filename split out?
21:28:26ricIIno file it goes in dirplay
21:28:28Stevie[FP]no wait
21:28:40Stevie[FP]wtf
21:28:43*Stevie[FP] rubs his head
21:29:32Stevie[FP]yeah, that doesn't make a lot of sense
21:29:35Stevie[FP]why does it want the dir and filename split out?
21:30:30Zagorbecause file is "" in case of dirplay
21:30:50Stevie[FP]... mmkay
21:32:13ricIIwhat is created there is the starting point for a dynamic playlist
21:32:14Stevie[FP]okay
21:33:43Stevie[FP]what exactly is the purpose of playlist_next
21:33:44Stevie[FP]?
21:34:01Stevie[FP]it's got a mysterious parameter 'steps'
21:34:14ricIIreturn the next song to play to the mpeg thread
21:34:25Stevie[FP]it returns an int?
21:34:59Stevie[FP]and what are these 'steps'?
21:35:21ricIIto wrap around in case of mid dirplay (repeat all) if I remeber correcyly
21:36:07Stevie[FP]so wait
21:36:13ricIIit return the next indices to play
21:36:14Stevie[FP]i normally want steps==1 or?
21:36:18Zagoryes
21:36:38Zagorsteps is used if more than one track fits into ram
21:36:48Stevie[FP]my computer science teacher would flunk all of you just for your comments
21:36:53Stevie[FP]:D
21:37:02Zagorthen it needs to peek X "steps" forward in the playlist
21:37:08Zagorhehe
21:37:29Zagorthen again he doesn't write as cool stuff as we do ;)
21:37:34Stevie[FP]I once wrote "Comments are for wimps. If it was hard to write, it should be hard to read!" on one of my assignments
21:37:47Stevie[FP]she took 10pts off and wrote 'unprofessional attitude'
21:37:57ricIIpff
21:39:17Stevie[FP]okay
21:39:18Zagorthe interesting thing is that what's wrong with that expression is not that it's ignorant. it's that it evades the biggest problem: people have wildly different opionions about what is "easy"
21:39:41Stevie[FP]indeed
21:39:57Zagorsome people think 14-level c++ class inheritance makes things easy, while it makes *me* sick
21:40:03Stevie[FP]lmfao
21:40:15Stevie[FP]how about just handcoding assembler?
21:40:27Stevie[FP]or what I did when I didn't have an inline assembler, raw opcode bytes
21:40:29Zagornah, there's a balance
21:40:47Stevie[FP]turbo pascal 4.0 taught me REAL debugging techniques
21:40:51Zagoryou don't want to enter that pissing contest with us old c64 hackers :)
21:40:54Stevie[FP]no syntax highlighting
21:40:58ricII:)
21:41:01Stevie[FP]no watches
21:41:04Stevie[FP]no breakpoints
21:41:06Stevie[FP]no single step
21:41:20Stevie[FP]and the x86 segmented memory model
21:41:33Stevie[FP]where it was easy to have two different pointers that pointed to the same location in memory
21:41:49Stevie[FP]anyway
21:41:56Stevie[FP]so playlist_next returns the index into the playlist
21:42:02Stevie[FP]I assume that it accounts for shuffle and such?
21:42:11Zagorhow about: where branches can only jump +- 128 bytes? :)
21:42:51Zagorno, you shuffle it separately
21:42:52ricIIplaylist being indices in this case.
21:43:11Stevie[FP]with playlist_shuffle()
21:43:19Zagoroh, right. yes you don't have to worry about if it's shuffled or not.
21:43:35Stevie[FP]okay
21:43:39Stevie[FP]how do i get the filename for an index?
21:44:03Zagoryou don't. you only get it for next/prev track
21:44:14Zagorusing playlist_peek or playlist_next
21:44:21Stevie[FP]so in order to get the filename and go on
21:44:23Stevie[FP]i'd have to do
21:44:27Zagor(next moves the "pointer", peek doesn't)
21:44:41Stevie[FP]ptr = playlist_peek(1);
21:44:46Stevie[FP]playlist_next(1);
21:44:48Stevie[FP]?
21:45:23Zagorif you just want to advance, you don't have to peek
21:45:34Stevie[FP]well I'm not running this through the mpeg system
21:46:05Stevie[FP]i want to see how well open() performs, not the mpeg thread :P
21:46:09Zagoruh, sorry my bad. it was a while since I looked at this code. yes you need to peek to get the filename.
21:46:30Stevie[FP]ok
21:48:23Stevie[FP]how do i get the current tick ctr value?
21:48:28Stevie[FP]get_ticks() ? or
21:48:44Zagorcurrent_tick, a global variable
21:49:21tracktheripperZagor is a BPM counter possible on the ARchos?
21:49:39Zagortracktheripper: not an effective one
21:50:11tracktheripperwhy not?
21:50:13tracktheripper:-|
21:50:18*Stevie[FP] notes that playlist_create() returns 0 regardless of whether or not it can find the file specified
21:50:27Zagorbecause we don't have access to the audio data to make that kind of analysis
21:50:42tracktheripperohhhhhhhhhhh
21:50:45tracktheripper:-(
21:50:51Stevie[FP]tracktheripper: put your index and middle fingers on your neck or on your wrist. count for 15 seconds, then multiply by 4
21:51:09 Join [IDC]Dragon [0] (~idc-drago@p5086132C.dip.t-dialin.net)
21:51:42midknight2k3i got better idea
21:51:44tracktheripperive got 88 doing that
21:51:45tracktheripper:-)
21:51:54midknight2k3for 1 second, then multiply by 60!
21:52:11Zagorhi dragon
21:52:17midknight2k3hello
21:52:22[IDC]DragonHi!
21:52:55[IDC]DragonStill busy doing code reviews with Stevie?
21:53:10Zagorhehe
21:53:15 Quit tracktheripper ("Leaving")
21:54:03Stevie[FP]yeah, we were up all nite
21:54:05Stevie[FP]:P
21:54:08[IDC]DragonSpeaking about reviews, Zagor, have you had a chance to look at my stuff?
21:54:27Zagoryes. i'd like to code-police it a bit :)
21:54:47[IDC]DragonMy code is under my code policy.
21:54:57Stevie[FP]wait... how do I get the *first* filename to be played?
21:55:38Stevie[FP]playlist_peek(0) ?
21:56:22ZagorStevie[FP]: yes
21:56:26Stevie[FP]okay
21:56:35[IDC]DragonWhat I don't like about your policy is that dreadful /* commenting */
21:56:46 Join TBoy [0] (~xxx@212.204.94.33)
21:56:50Stevie[FP]what commenting? :P
21:56:52TBoyhoi
21:56:56Zagordragon: it would be nice if we could merge some parts with rockbox style. at least the plugins and the more rockbox-intimate parts
21:56:56*Stevie[FP] glances over playlist.c
21:57:09Zagordragon: /* */ is C
21:57:32***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21:57:41Stevie[FP]is there a function to return the size of the playlist?
21:58:40[IDC]DragonI hope there's some beautifier out which can convert back and forth.
21:59:09ZagorStevie[FP]: playlist_amount()
21:59:36Zagoractually i don't care much about the comment style. i'm more concerned with all those typedefs.
21:59:55[IDC]DragonWhat's the policy for that?
21:59:57 Join OMFG100038DKDDkd [0] (~the_yetti@ip68-8-155-134.sd.sd.cox.net)
22:00
22:00:12Zagordon't use typedefs
22:00:16OMFG100038DKDDkdHey Zagnor, you there?
22:00:20Zagoryes
22:00:23Stevie[FP]what's wrong with typedefs?
22:00:28[IDC]DragonZagor: Oops?
22:00:40OMFG100038DKDDkdAwhile ago I came in here with problems with my jukebox 6000
22:00:42Stevie[FP]it increases the lifetime of my s,t,r,u, and c keys
22:00:45OMFG100038DKDDkdI fixed it with a format
22:01:00ZagorStevie[FP]: they redefine the language for no good reason
22:01:00midknight2k3I like that - "Zagnor" :)
22:01:14[IDC]Dragontypedefs are divine
22:01:24Stevie[FP]typedefs are a tool which can easily be abused
22:01:44OMFG100038DKDDkdZagnor: How does a format on the jb harrdrive affects its performance?
22:01:49Stevie[FP]if you're just typdeffing things like 'typedef int mytype_t' then yeah
22:01:56Stevie[FP]that just pollutes the namespace
22:02:07Zagorthey are all fun and games until someone loses an eye ;)
22:02:22Stevie[FP]typedef unsgned nt mytype_t ?
22:02:31[IDC]DragonHow do you go without? Whenever I define a struct, I need the type for it in order to use pointers.
22:02:32ZagorOMFG100038DKDDkd: not much
22:02:39Stevie[FP][IDC]Dragon: no you don't
22:02:57Zagordragon: actually you don't. use use "struct mustructname". that makes the code much more readable too
22:02:59OMFG100038DKDDkdZagnor: So it is safe to run off the ROM?
22:03:00Stevie[FP]struct myleetstruct *p;
22:03:14ZagorOMFG100038DKDDkd: for regular recorders, yes
22:03:40OMFG100038DKDDkdI have the player
22:03:51[IDC]DragonHow fast does it boot?
22:04:00Stevie[FP]players are fast
22:04:00ZagorOMFG100038DKDDkd: well the player can't be flahed yet
22:04:02midknight2k3Zagnor once again
22:04:08Stevie[FP]players are so fast they boot fast on my emulator
22:04:14[IDC]DragonSo far nobody asked for player flashing.
22:04:26midknight2k3fm recorder is the slowest of all
22:04:38midknight2k3it takes like 10 seconds to get halfway, then like 7 more for rockbox to boot
22:04:42Zagori think there are quite few player users, relatively speaking
22:04:46[IDC]DragonFM to be changed soon!
22:04:51midknight2k3really?
22:04:52midknight2k3yay!
22:05:02midknight2k3my fm will soon have rombox
22:05:44[IDC]DragonThere's player wit text and graphic display, right?
22:05:52[IDC]Dragonplayers with
22:05:53Zagorno, only text
22:06:02Zagorthe icons are hardcoded into the lcd
22:06:05OMFG100038DKDDkdI noticed a few files on the JB like 'image.bak' what did those do for the unit?
22:06:14[IDC]DragonWhat's old and new player then?
22:06:15ZagorOMFG100038DKDDkd: nothing
22:06:35Zagordragon: they have slightly different lcd controllers. old ones have 4 redefinable chars, new have 8.
22:06:39OMFG100038DKDDkdoh well I guess I have that much more free space
22:07:06Stevie[FP]oh
22:07:07Stevie[FP]zagor
22:07:07Zagoralso they have different charsets
22:07:14Stevie[FP]i have a minor issue that maybe you can clear up
22:07:14[IDC]DragonZagor: Aha.
22:07:18Stevie[FP]you know that ata error -11?
22:07:21Zagoryup
22:07:24Stevie[FP]that seems impossible
22:07:29[IDC]DragonYes... Gr.
22:07:30Stevie[FP]since ata_init() has no place that returns -11
22:07:30Zagor?
22:07:38[IDC]DragonIt has.
22:07:42Zagorit does now :)
22:07:42Stevie[FP]where?
22:07:49Zagor rc = master_slave_detect();
22:07:49Zagor if (rc)
22:07:49Zagor return -10 + rc;
22:08:17[IDC]DragonI spread up the return codes, to have then non-ambiguous.
22:08:18Stevie[FP]... oh
22:08:30*Stevie[FP] notes that that code was not in the 07/09 daily build source
22:08:46[IDC]Dragonso the ten's digit tells the funtion, the one's the failure.
22:08:59Stevie[FP]so what's -21 ?
22:09:10[IDC]DragonAncient build!
22:09:19Stevie[FP]was your first rombox hardcoded to slave?
22:09:22[IDC]DragonGet an update!
22:09:26Stevie[FP]update
22:09:33Stevie[FP]i had enough trouble getting somebody's firmware images
22:09:33[IDC]DragonNo, rather master.
22:09:44Stevie[FP]really, i thought i was emulating master
22:09:51[IDC]DragonThey are part of the package!
22:10:05[IDC]Dragonfirmware_rec.bin
22:10:34Stevie[FP]if it doesn't say 'internal_rom_xxxx' and 'internal_rom_2xxxx' i ain't even bothering, cuz I don't know what it is
22:10:50Stevie[FP]yeah i'm emulating master
22:10:51[IDC]DragonNow you do. ;-)
22:10:52Stevie[FP]so what's -21?
22:11:07Zagorio_address_detect
22:11:17Stevie[FP]oh
22:11:27Stevie[FP]it was still doing the probing right?
22:11:40Zagorwe still are, but we used the wrong register
22:11:54Zagor(ATA_ALT_STATUS instead of ATA_STATUS)
22:12:05Stevie[FP]I was trying to emulate the old-rockbox style
22:12:11 Quit OMFG100038DKDDkd ("(i was using polaris) version:[2.05c] webpage:[http://www.polaris-central.com]")
22:13:13[IDC]DragonCan you tell me a status on how your emulator is doing in general?
22:13:29[IDC]DragonYou see the Rockbox logo on screen?
22:14:58Stevie[FP]the one that says Ver. 030708-2231 ?
22:15:17[IDC]DragonYEs, just as an example.
22:15:18Stevie[FP]uh, nope ;)
22:15:35Stevie[FP](that's the one that gives me -21)
22:17:11[IDC]DragonWhich peripheral do you emulate?
22:17:36Stevie[FP]just enough to get to the archos fw screen that complains about my filesystem
22:17:43Stevie[FP]which I believe I have found the source of
22:18:02Stevie[FP]the absolute minimum size for a fat32 partition is approx. 128mb
22:18:37[IDC]DragonYou put the filesystem into a file, or are you actually allowing it to access real disk sectors?
22:18:40Stevie[FP]but mkdosfs will kindly ignore that and produce an invalid fs
22:19:04Stevie[FP]the former
22:19:57Stevie[FP]wth
22:20:19ZagorStevie[FP]: actually any fat32 file with less than 65526 clusters is invalid
22:20:33Zagorfile system
22:20:55[IDC]DragonSo? Are you short of diskspace?
22:20:59Stevie[FP]Zagor: as is a fat32 fs with a cluster size of less than 2kb
22:21:12Stevie[FP]65526 * 2048 == 134197248
22:21:29Stevie[FP]127.98MB
22:21:31Zagorah, ok
22:21:37midknight2k365526... sounds familiar
22:21:48Stevie[FP]hmm
22:21:53Stevie[FP]this image won't boot
22:21:58Zagormidknight2k3: you're probably thinking of 65536 (64KB)
22:22:08[IDC]DragonSo I can't re-use my old 80 MB drive, what a pity...
22:22:19midknight2k3perhaps
22:22:20midknight2k3lol
22:22:26midknight2k3sounds familiar either way
22:22:31[IDC]DragonIt could have hold one album!
22:22:42midknight2k3at like 128kbps
22:22:44Zagorhehe
22:22:49Stevie[FP][IDC]Dragon: but I don't know if anybody actually *checks* the 2kb cluster thing
22:22:54midknight2k3i'll take it if you dont want it
22:23:03ZagorI have a 350MB 12mm 2.5" disk. it works in the archos, but you can't mount the cover plates :)
22:23:16Stevie[FP]lol
22:23:29midknight2k3the archos can use any 2.5" drive then?
22:23:31Stevie[FP]mount /dev/cplates /dev/sda
22:23:38Zagoractually it's probably even larger than 12.5mm
22:23:41Zagormidknight2k3: yes
22:23:48Zagorbut only 9mm fits inside the case
22:23:49midknight2k3maybe i will upgrade later
22:23:53[IDC]DragonMy first digital sampled music came on a floppy.
22:24:29[IDC]Dragon"Moonlight Shadow" from Mike Oldfield, for an Atari ST.
22:24:42midknight2k3I could upgrade to a 12gb one that fits in the archos
22:24:43[IDC]DragonI was deeply impressed.
22:25:02Zagorhehe. we did lots of samples on the c64 too.
22:25:19Zagormidknight2k3: there are 80GB disks that fit
22:25:33Stevie[FP]wtf
22:25:37Stevie[FP]cannot find entry symbol start?
22:25:45Stevie[FP]oh
22:25:46Stevie[FP]i know
22:25:59[IDC]DragonI won't upgrade again unless they have 120 GB.
22:26:12midknight2k3okay
22:26:14midknight2k3dragon
22:26:15Stevie[FP]stupid case insensitive fs
22:26:20midknight2k3can you tell me who needs 120gb?
22:26:21midknight2k3lol
22:26:22[IDC]DragonAre we prepared for BigLBA?
22:26:23Zagormy 40gigs are getting full, so i might grab an 80gig soonish
22:26:33midknight2k3where could you get an 80gig
22:26:37midknight2k3that fits in the archos?
22:26:48Zagordragon: no, that requires a new ata controller
22:26:58[IDC]DragonIBM/Hitachi Travelstar80
22:27:11[IDC]DragonZagor: are you shure?
22:27:22midknight2k3i bet he is shure
22:27:24midknight2k3:D
22:27:48Zagoryou're making me think again :)
22:28:06Stevie[FP]error accessign playlist control file(?)
22:28:06[IDC]DragonI thought it's just a software thing.
22:28:10Stevie[FP]wtf?
22:28:26[IDC]DragonBut maybe because of the USB tunnel it's different.
22:29:00midknight2k3oo hoo
22:29:08midknight2k35200rpm 40gb drive
22:29:11midknight2k3faskernationg
22:29:13[IDC]DragonThere should be external 3,5" USB drives, can those be >128GB?
22:29:14midknight2k3oops
22:29:18midknight2k3faskernating
22:29:34Zagordragon: right. even if rockbox could handle 48bit addressing, the usb controller can't
22:29:35*Stevie[FP] pokes Z and IDC
22:29:45Stevie[FP]why am I receiving an 'error accessign playlist control file'?
22:30:29[IDC]DragonSo 128 GB is the limit, boo. :-(
22:30:55Stevie[FP]not necessarily :P
22:31:02Stevie[FP]it just wouldn't be through usb
22:31:37Zagorrather messy working without usb though :)
22:31:39[IDC]DragonI don't know enough about the ISD300.
22:32:13[IDC]DragonI fthe commands are not interpretated, just transported, it could do anything.
22:32:21Stevie[FP]wtf
22:32:26Stevie[FP]anybody?
22:32:46Stevie[FP]BAH
22:32:55*Stevie[FP] is away [gone] [KS-MsgLog Off]
22:32:56Zagordragon: they are interpreted. usb mass storage is basically scsi.
22:33:37[IDC]DragonSCSI might have enough headroom, but if that's not translater to BigLBA, we're out of luck.
22:33:50Zagorexactly
22:34:24[IDC]DragonI hope ISD comes up with a pin-compatible replacement by then. ;-)
22:34:47Zagorhehe.
22:34:47midknight2k3bye, "Zag-nor"! bye Dragon! (PS get that rombox done soon, you! :) ) Bye whoever else cares!
22:35:03[IDC]Dragonrombox is done.
22:35:07midknight2k3it is?
22:35:09midknight2k3it is?
22:35:18midknight2k3faskernating! I want one!
22:35:20[IDC]DragonFor recorders, yes.
22:35:20Zagorjust not for fm yet
22:35:24midknight2k3aww
22:35:29midknight2k3why did I not keep that recorder
22:35:31midknight2k3:-(
22:35:33[IDC]DragonWait til next week.
22:35:39midknight2k3next week oh boy
22:35:42midknight2k3cant wait
22:35:46midknight2k3bye then
22:35:51 Quit midknight2k3 ("-=SysReset 2.53=-")
22:36:21[IDC]DragonPeople seem to like that name "Rombox".
22:36:49[IDC]DragonI used it only in one posting, I think, but it was catched up often.
22:36:55Zagoryes
22:37:29[IDC]DragonYou didn't like to make that "official"?
22:38:01[IDC]DragonFlashbox would be more precise, but Rombox is closer to Rockbox.
22:38:34Zagorwell i don't so much see it as a separate thing. i see it more as tools to make rockbox run in flash.
22:38:53Zagori'm not against calling it something, i just don't see where that name should be :)
22:39:00[IDC]DragonAnyway.
22:39:22[IDC]DragonMaybe thsubdir name with the non-user tooling.
22:39:31Zagoryeah
22:39:33[IDC]Dragonthe subdir
22:39:41[IDC]Dragonlike gdb
22:39:48Zagoryup
22:41:06[IDC]DragonI'm gonno ease down my rockbox activities a bit the next days.
22:41:26Zagoryeah, me too. i'm going diving in the red sea a week from monday
22:41:44[IDC]DragonNice!
22:42:12Zagoryeah, i've been looking forward to this. it will be horribly hot though. 38 C today... :-(
22:42:15[IDC]DragonI'd like to try that, but my girlfriend is afraid.
22:42:38[IDC]Dragontry diving, I mean, not 38 degrees.
22:42:48Zagorhas she ever tried, like in a pool?
22:43:23[IDC]DragonNo, not with any more equipment then swimming goggles.
22:44:01Zagormy gf was a bit nervous too before she tried, but the took her certificate this spring
22:46:37[IDC]DragonShe's panicing anout not being able to breethe freely, I also have no idea of what it's like.
22:47:44[IDC]DragonWell, I'm out for today, nice talking to you!
22:47:52Zagorit's great. you should try it some time. it's as close as you can get to flying.
22:47:56Zagorok, bye
22:48:13 Quit [IDC]Dragon ()
23:00
23:08:29 Quit TBoy ("Bye guys")
23:21:43 Quit hardeep ("BitchX-1.0c19 -- just do it.")
23:23:51 Join hardeep [0] (~hardeeps@208.247.65.237)
23:31:08 Quit matsl (Remote closed the connection)
23:32:02 Join Lynx0 [0] (user@dial-194-8-196-96.netcologne.de)
23:32:10Lynx0Hi!
23:37:55Lynx0What do I do against the 'error updating playlist control file' message/error?
23:47:09 Quit Lynx0 ("Client Exiting")
23:49:07 Quit mecraw ("Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com)")
23:57:36***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"

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