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#rockbox log for 2003-12-19

00:02:24 Quit scott666 ("i'll be back...eventually...")
00:04:31 Quit _aLF ("bye")
00:05:23 Nick edx{off} is now known as edx (edx@pD9EA9941.dip.t-dialin.net)
00:19:39 Join earHertz [0] (~chatzilla@pool-138-88-166-150.res.east.verizon.net)
00:20:41earHertzanyone here?
00:21:29 Quit [IDC]Dragon (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:22:25Sebulba02No.
00:31:02 Quit lini ("Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com)")
00:37:46 Join LinusN [200] (~linus@labb.contactor.se)
00:42:34earHertzLinus, do you know what's involved in IDC's "UART boot mod" ?
00:42:57LinusNsort of
00:43:49LinusNwhat do you want to know?
00:44:35earHertzWell, first of all, does it start with doing this: http://rockbox.haxx.se/mods/serialport.html?
00:44:49LinusNyes
00:45:28earHertzThose pictures are of a recorder. Are there pictures of this for an FM?
00:45:59LinusNnope
00:46:23LinusNi have done this on my fm, but the serial port was broken on the cpu :-(
00:46:35LinusNand i never took any pictures :-(((((
00:46:59earHertzAre the places to solder as obvious on an FM?
00:48:35LinusNnot really, but the rx and tx pins are present in the 6-pin header right next to the unoccupied RDS decoder socket
00:49:11LinusNlower left corner of the lcd
00:49:40earHertzI see.
00:50:07earHertzAfter that is done, what else is involved for the UART mod?
00:50:24LinusNhmmm
00:50:48LinusNi think you need to ground three port pins at boot time
00:51:03LinusNunless you have flashed minimon, i think
00:52:40earHertzand how does the PC then ommunicate with the Archos?
00:53:20LinusNyou need a RS232<->TTL level converter
00:55:51LinusNhave you flashed minimon?
00:55:58earHertzUh, no.
00:56:07earHertzI had a flashing error. My FMR is dead
00:56:20LinusNok, does F1 work?
00:56:40earHertzNo.
00:56:44LinusNouch
00:56:49earHertzI was re-flashing the archos firmware.
00:57:09earHertzWhen it hung up in "Programming..."
00:57:20LinusNouch again
00:57:54earHertzyeah
00:57:58LinusNi wonder how much is left of the boot loader
00:58:12earHertzapparently a bit, acording to idc dragon.
00:58:17LinusNok
00:58:29earHertzWhen I turn it on, both leds come on.
00:58:44LinusNyou are supposed to ground three of the port pins that are used for communicating with the lcd
00:58:53LinusNthen you boot it up
00:59:09 Join dee-gee [0] (~chatzilla@hbs12-90.hbs.edu)
00:59:19LinusNyou will then be able to communicate with the archos builtin monitor
00:59:21earHertzHow do you ground the port pins?
00:59:37LinusNa tiny strand of wire?
00:59:47earHertzExcept you could not because the port on your fmr was broken.
01:00
01:00:15LinusNexactly, i wanted to run gdb
01:00:24LinusNlike i do on my player and recorder
01:01:16earHertzso grounding involves connecting theh three pins with a tiny strand of wire? Is the otehr end of the wire connected to anything
01:01:18earHertz?
01:01:45LinusNground, of course
01:02:10LinusN"grounding"
01:02:54Sebulba02heh
01:03:10earHertzWhat qualifies as ground?
01:03:23LinusNthe chassis
01:03:24dee-geeis there a newbie faq channel?
01:03:44LinusNdee-gee: nope, do you have a question?
01:04:00dee-geeyeah - I am having trouble mounting my archos on rh linux...
01:04:07LinusNearHertz: the solder points where the chassis connects to the pcb are good
01:04:12dee-geethe basic mount /dev/sda1 doesnt work
01:04:17LinusNdee-gee: ok, what's the prob?
01:04:31LinusNdee-gee: which usb driver?
01:04:34dee-geemount: /dev/sda1 is not a valid block device
01:04:41dee-geenot sure - how do i check?
01:04:52LinusNlsmod
01:04:55earHertzso the wire touches each port oin and the chassis
01:05:01earHertzs/oin/pin
01:05:10LinusNearHertz: yes, but i'm not sure which pins
01:05:58dee-geeI can't tell version info from that cmd
01:06:00dee-geeusb-uhci 26380 0 (unused)
01:06:02dee-geeusbcore 79168 1 [hid usb-uhci]
01:06:15LinusNdee-gee: insmod usb-storage
01:06:21earHertzIs an rs232<−−>ttl something I can buy at an electronics store?
01:06:37LinusNi fear not
01:06:52 Quit edx ()
01:07:03LinusNand it's not even ttl, it's 3V
01:07:25LinusNif i was at home, i could have sent you one
01:07:27dee-geeUsing /lib/modules/2.4.22-1.2115.nptl/kernel/drivers/usb/storage/usb-storage.o
01:07:36LinusNdee-gee: now mount again
01:07:43earHertzthanks
01:08:04dee-geedidnt work..
01:08:06dee-gee sudo mount /dev/sda1 /mnt/archos/
01:08:11dee-geemount: /dev/sda1 is not a valid block device
01:08:24LinusNdee-gee: tail -100 /var/log/messages
01:09:00dee-geeDec 18 19:07:16 dhcp-516-12 kernel: Initializing USB Mass Storage driver...
01:09:01dee-geeDec 18 19:07:16 dhcp-516-12 kernel: usb.c: registered new driver usb-storage
01:09:03dee-geeDec 18 19:07:16 dhcp-516-12 kernel: USB Mass Storage support registered.
01:09:11dee-geedecent msgs... Dec 18 19:07:16 dhcp-516-12 kernel: USB Mass Storage support registered.
01:09:38LinusNdee-gee: try this:
01:09:48LinusNrmmod usb-storage
01:09:53LinusNrmmod usb-uhci
01:10:01LinusNinsmod usb-uhci
01:10:05LinusNinsmod usb-storage
01:10:47dee-geesame error!
01:11:04dee-gee=(
01:11:05LinusNplayer or recorder?
01:11:08dee-geeplayer
01:11:31LinusNdo you have the isd200 driver in your kernel?
01:12:13dee-geeI didn't put it in explicitly.. I thought the faq said that kernel 2.4.10+ didn't require it...
01:12:18dee-geeshould I try that?
01:12:44LinusNi just wanted to make sure that the isd200 support is compiled
01:16:03earHertzLinus, is this the level converter?
01:16:06earHertzhttp://www.superdroidrobots.com/rs232.htm
01:17:19LinusNyes, but you need the 3.3v addition
01:19:08earHertzAnd then the wires from this ting are connected to the rx and tx pins beow the lcd?
01:20:22LinusNand the ground wire as well
01:21:05earHertzthe ground wire on the level converter is connected to the archos chassis?
01:21:35LinusNyeah
01:21:59LinusNthere is a chassis solder point right next to the 6-pin header
01:22:19LinusNanywhere on the ground plane will be fine
01:22:54earHertzis there any way to temporarily attach without solder, say with Aadhesive tape?
01:26:04LinusNi wouldn't try that
01:26:22LinusNbut i'm not saying it wouldn't work
01:27:38earHertzIf it didn't work, I wouldn't be any worse off than I am now, right?
01:27:59earHertzRight now I have a $550 paperweight
01:28:23LinusNtrue, true :-)
01:28:53LinusNbut you need to check with jörg about the lcd pins
01:29:13earHertzyes, of course,
01:32:18earHertzThnaks for your help, Linus
01:32:28LinusNyou're welcome
01:33:47earHertzI so wish there was another hard drive mp3 player that was hack-able. One with better QC than Archos.
01:35:53 Join midknight2k3 [0] (midknight2@12-229-204-15.client.attbi.com)
01:36:03midknight2k3hey all
01:36:19earHertzhey.
01:37:29LinusNearHertz: agreed, i wish arshos had better h/w quality
01:37:30Sebulba02sup midknight2k3
01:37:45LinusNbut i haven't had any probs so far
01:37:48midknight2k3oh hey linus
01:37:52midknight2k3hey Sebulba02
01:37:52LinusNhi midknight2k3
01:41:04 Quit dee-gee (Remote closed the connection)
01:51:01 Quit mecraw_ ("Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com)")
01:54:49***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:00
02:13:11 Quit AciD ("Segmentation fault (core dumped)")
02:14:54midknight2k3hi hardeep
02:26:55 Join diddystar5 [0] (Lee@ACAF3559.ipt.aol.com)
02:27:15diddystar5ohhh no its Masskiller run!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
02:27:27midknight2k3lol
02:33:46Sebulba02Hey diddystar5
02:33:59diddystar5hey Sebulba02
02:34:00midknight2k3hey hardeep
02:39:09midknight2k3*what*? lol
02:39:42Sebulba02?
02:39:54midknight2k3<me> hey hardeep <anyone> ...
02:40:03diddystar5hey [OFF]BtT, BoBB, diddystar5, dsg, dwihno, earHertz, Exion, Hadaka, Hes, LinusN, logbot, markw, Masskiller, mbr, midknight2k3, MT, Sebulba02, strestout1_, uski, webmind, and ze!
02:40:16earHertzyeah?
02:40:17Sebulba02heh
02:40:20midknight2k3lol
02:40:23midknight2k3DONT DO THAT
02:40:24midknight2k3lol
02:40:30midknight2k3now everyone will come running
02:40:34diddystar5lol
02:40:36diddystar5so
02:40:37midknight2k3i guess its time to say
02:40:38midknight2k3hey hardeep
02:40:40MTnnnng
02:40:52Sebulba02Including the scary people..
02:41:00midknight2k3who?
02:41:33Sebulba02Not sure, but I'm sure theres at least one scary person here :)
02:42:01diddystar5Masskiller is!
02:42:06midknight2k3lol
02:42:09Sebulba02lol
02:42:13midknight2k3dont be so pesty
02:42:23Masskillerstop saying my name
02:42:23Masskillerdammit
02:42:24Masskiller:|
02:42:28midknight2k3SEe
02:42:30Masskillerim sitting in a game
02:42:32midknight2k3you piss him off
02:42:35Masskillerand i keep hearing this noise
02:42:36midknight2k3stop it diddy
02:42:41midknight2k3he will stop, i'm sure
02:42:47Masskiller;\
02:42:57midknight2k3apology sent
02:43:10diddystar5lol
02:43:25midknight2k3diddystar5: why dont you consider bugging me instezd
02:43:30*diddystar5 is busy in word trying to get something ready for tomorrow
02:43:43Sebulba02work, eww
02:43:44*Masskiller [Song: Taking Back Sunday - Cute Without The "E" (Cut From The Team)] [Album: Tell All Your Friends] [Emocore|2002|232kbps]
02:43:46*midknight2k3 seconds that its MY WORD.
02:43:49Masskillercute without the e
02:43:53Masskillerthats you diddy
02:43:53Masskillerlol
02:43:55Sebulba02word even
02:44:09midknight2k3wtf
02:44:31diddystar5yeah
02:44:32diddystar5lol
02:44:43diddystar5thaks for office 2k3 mid
02:44:45diddystar5lol
02:45:02midknight2k3oh, no problemo
02:45:07Sebulba02lol
02:45:08midknight2k3always wanted to help the needy
02:45:12MTgah
02:45:19MTrecorder 10 is only usb 1.1?
02:45:20diddystar5one day i might burn up osme cds to send lol
02:45:24midknight2k3ha ha mt
02:45:28diddystar5MT: yes
02:45:35diddystar5only the rec 20 is
02:45:35MT:/
02:45:37midknight2k3get a rec20
02:45:41diddystar5AND FM
02:45:45Sebulba02thats gotta suck
02:45:53midknight2k3and gmini
02:45:57MTyeah, not touching another fm or a rec mk 2
02:46:07midknight2k3rec mk 2?
02:46:14MTthe one in an fm body
02:46:21midknight2k3oh
02:46:24midknight2k3rec make 2
02:46:29midknight2k3rec20, nto fm rec i said
02:46:53MTsucks not habing an mp3 player anymore :/
02:47:26MTs/ab/av/
02:52:08midknight2k3yes
02:52:09diddystar5time to eat
02:52:11midknight2k3get a rec20
02:52:14midknight2k3alright by didd
02:52:15diddystar5se you guys later
02:52:20midknight2k3:d
02:52:22midknight2k3:D
02:52:24 Quit diddystar5 ("Bye")
02:59:54Sebulba02mmm... food
03:00
03:01:43 Quit midknight2k3 ("sudden death")
03:28:21 Join diddystar5 [0] (Lee@AC9562C2.ipt.aol.com)
03:36:12 Part LinusN
03:53:23 Quit diddystar5 ("Bye")
03:54:52***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
04:00
04:10:05 Join scott666 [0] (scott666@c-24-245-58-245.mn.client2.attbi.com)
04:58:45 Quit earHertz ("ChatZilla 0.9.46 [Mozilla rv:1.5/0]")
05:00
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07:18:25Masskillereveryone's sleeping :|
07:18:48strestout1_not me :D
07:22:56 Quit mad8k (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
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08:39:15NSplitorwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
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08:39:15 Quit Masskiller (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
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08:39:17NHealorwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
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18:07:40BoBBis there documentation somewhere on reflashing the archos with the original firmware
18:08:50Masskilleri think so
18:09:35MasskillerWhen for any reason you'd like to revert to the original firmware, you can do like above, but copy and rename your backup to be "firmware_rec.bin" on the box this time. Keep the Rockbox copy and the plugins of this package for that job, because that's the one it was tested with.
18:11:31Masskillerhttp://rockbox.haxx.se/docs/flash.html
18:14:58BoBBso name the backup firmware_rec.bin and run firmware_flash.rock
18:15:21Masskilleri guess so
18:54:40 Join ^^neo^^ [0] (neo@p213.54.177.240.tisdip.tiscali.de)
18:54:45^^neo^^hery
18:55:27^^neo^^why does my recorder sometimes play videos faster as normal ?
18:56:22Zagorhow much faster?
18:59:46^^neo^^hmm dont know how to describe
18:59:57^^neo^^like twice
19:00
19:00:15^^neo^^but not from start
19:00:31^^neo^^first its normal then after 1min it goes faster
19:00:58^^neo^^without music
19:01:23Zagoryou should report it to [idc]dragon. it's his code.
19:01:38 Quit Masskiller (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
19:02:18uski^^neo^^: what recorder is it ?
19:02:29^^neo^^20gig
19:03:08uskiok
19:03:20uskiexplain the problem to [IDC]Dragon like Zagor said
19:03:29uskido you want to wait for him, or do you want his email address ?
19:03:35^^neo^^ok I will
19:03:36 Join ]MpC[Masskiller [0] (RIAA@bgp01039051bgs.southg01.mi.comcast.net)
19:03:39 Nick ]MpC[Masskiller is now known as Masskiller (RIAA@bgp01039051bgs.southg01.mi.comcast.net)
19:03:44 Quit ^^neo^^ ("get satisfied! • (Gamers.IRC powered by PlayerLiga.de) »» get it @ www.gamersirc.net")
19:03:56uskihmm !
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20:22:23Guest1161hi
20:22:42Guest1161anyone here =
20:22:44Guest1161?
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21:15:07supergamerjhi !
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22:32:48 Join matsl [0] (~matsl@1-1-4-2a.mal.sth.bostream.se)
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23:06:44 Join midknight2k3 [0] (zakk@ACAAA4A6.ipt.aol.com)
23:06:51midknight2k3hey zagor
23:09:17Zagorhi
23:09:35uskimidknight2k3: is it you who were looking for a formula to convert a linear scale to a logaithmic one ?
23:09:38midknight2k3i was just going to make a video browsing patch to the .rockbox browse patch
23:10:03Zagormidknight2k3: why? is an .mp3 browsing patch next?
23:10:04midknight2k3uski: that was diddystar5, though since we both worked on it, if you could help, by all means please do
23:10:12midknight2k3never mind then
23:10:15uskiok i have the formula ;)
23:10:24midknight2k3ooh yay
23:10:35uskivalue(dB) = 10log(v/A)
23:10:42uskiwhere v is the value in linear scale
23:10:55uskiand A is the value corresponding to the lowest level of sound the ear can hear
23:11:01uskisee what i mean ?
23:11:12midknight2k3ohhh
23:11:18uskii.e. you play a song and rise the volume from 0 to xxx
23:11:23uskiwhen you start hearing the sound
23:11:29uskiyou write the number: this is A
23:11:59uskiat least, it was the formula i saw in mathematics course some day ago
23:12:12midknight2k3zagor is turned against me
23:12:30Zagori never moved :)
23:12:40midknight2k3it makes me sad
23:12:47midknight2k3i dont want zagor against me
23:13:41midknight2k3i suppose writing a more user friendly id3 tag browser is useless too (that was an idea i had)
23:13:57midknight2k3and lets forget "progress bar on ff/rw in video.rock
23:14:59midknight2k3that just confuses me. plugin browser, but not video browser?
23:15:07midknight2k3same exact thing
23:15:20midknight2k3now i know how track feels about mikeholden
23:15:57Zagormp3 and video is the same thing. plugins and videos are very different.
23:16:11midknight2k3not in the file way
23:16:13uskimidknight2k3: but i also found other formulas, dunno which one is ok :\
23:16:14uskifloat SNDConvertLinearToDecibels(float linear)
23:16:14uski {
23:16:14DBUGEnqueued KICK uski
23:16:14uski return (float)(20.0 * log10((double)linear));
23:16:14uski }
23:16:17midknight2k3.rockbox/rocks are plugins
23:16:21midknight2k3.rockbox/videos are videos
23:16:25midknight2k3i dont get your logic
23:16:32uski.rockbox/cows are cows
23:16:32uskioops
23:16:36midknight2k3lol
23:16:59midknight2k3ok, that code is confusing
23:17:11Zagor.rockbox/videos doesn't exist
23:17:11midknight2k3well
23:17:14midknight2k3it would
23:17:19midknight2k3.rockbox/rocks was CREATED.
23:17:26midknight2k3why not /videos for your clips?
23:17:28Zagorso you want .rockbox/mp3 too then?
23:17:37midknight2k3NO!
23:17:48midknight2k3its not like youll be playing videos just like mp3s
23:17:50Zagorwhy are you treading mp3 and video differently?
23:17:56midknight2k3because its like plugins
23:17:58midknight2k3not all day long
23:18:02midknight2k3just a side attraction
23:18:18Zagorso are .txt files, yet we don't treat them like plugins either
23:18:25uskii'm afraid i agree with Zagor :\
23:18:32uskimp3 files are multimedia files
23:18:38uskivideos are multimedia files
23:18:47midknight2k3sure
23:18:47uski=> why putting multimedia files in .rockbox ?
23:18:56midknight2k3but its not like you watch videos all day as like mp3s
23:19:08uskiyes but
23:19:15midknight2k3but...?
23:19:21uskiwhy does it make that you can't put them in normal directories ?
23:19:29uskiwhy putting them in rockbox ?
23:19:37Zagormidknight2k3: do you read text files all day long?
23:19:43midknight2k3no.
23:19:44uskii have hundreds of files that i do not listen more than once per month
23:19:50uskibut they aren't in .rockbox
23:19:55midknight2k3sure
23:19:56uski.rockbox should be a system directory
23:20:00midknight2k3but thats a mp3 format
23:20:05uskilike /usr/bin or c:\windows\system
23:20:05midknight2k3games are system files?
23:20:08midknight2k3that makes me laugh
23:20:16uskigames are binaries
23:20:19uskigames are program
23:20:36 Join arspy87 [0] (~arspy87@h00062598fa3b.ne.client2.attbi.com)
23:20:38midknight2k3ok forget it
23:20:43arspy87hey
23:21:01uskiideally, the user shouldn't know that there is a .rockbox directory
23:21:04midknight2k3i dont believe it
23:21:07midknight2k3oh yea right.
23:21:31midknight2k3ok how about browsing video clips under /video
23:21:34uski(a windows user doesn't know there is a c:\windows\system directory, and he doesn't put his documents into this directory)
23:21:41midknight2k3no
23:21:48uskiwhy doyou absolutely want to put videos files under a separate directory ?
23:21:49arspy87i know theres a system directory ;) jk.... jk...
23:21:52midknight2k3but this is ... are you even listening to my idea?
23:21:53Zagormidknight2k3: how about letting users put their video files wherever they please?
23:21:55uskiarspy87: ;)
23:22:11uskimidknight2k3: yes but we don't understand why you want to restrict the user to only one directory
23:22:15midknight2k3zagor: i got the good idea. how about a setting to configure where Menu->Video Clips browses too?
23:22:19midknight2k3makes all happy
23:22:32midknight2k3you just pick "select dir" and then point it to where
23:22:41Zagornobody needs a video clip browser. we already have a file browser!
23:22:43uskibut WHY only ONE directory ? :\
23:22:49midknight2k3sure, but why a plugin browser then?!
23:22:50arspy87so who's the hero who invented this grayscale movie thing?
23:22:56Sebulba02heh
23:23:00uskiarspy87: [IDC]Dragon
23:23:05arspy87cool
23:23:15uskibut i'm a hero because i told you his name
23:23:18uski;)
23:23:22Zagormidknight2k3: because some plugins have to be located in a special place. video files don't.
23:23:23arspy87:)
23:23:33midknight2k3they dont "have to be"
23:23:38midknight2k3they just "are typically"
23:23:41uskimidknight2k3: plugins are system files
23:23:47midknight2k3no
23:23:49midknight2k3they're games
23:23:52Zagorwrong. some *have* to be. like the video player.
23:23:54uskino, they are executables
23:23:54midknight2k3games != system files
23:24:01midknight2k3lol
23:24:03uskiand executables are system files
23:24:04midknight2k3games != system files !!!
23:24:14uskiso what are games then ?
23:24:19midknight2k3they are games
23:24:21midknight2k3plugins
23:24:22uskilol
23:24:27uskiplugins ARE system file
23:24:28midknight2k3thats like asking what an mp3 is
23:24:35midknight2k3its, uhh what do you think
23:24:39arspy87games == system files + executables + a whole bunch of other stuff
23:24:52uskimp3 files are multimedia files
23:24:56uskiwhen you have a digital camera
23:25:02uskiyou don't see the firmware !
23:25:04uskibut it is here
23:25:12uskiit should be the same with .rockbox
23:25:21uskisystem files, executables, and so on shoulod be hidden somewhere
23:25:34uskiand this hidden place shouldn't have anything to do with the files of the user
23:25:56uskiif the user wants to add features to the player, he should change something in the system directory
23:26:05uskibut only for this
23:26:12midknight2k3uski: will you just quiet down if i say i agree?
23:26:23uskii'd like you to understand my point of vieuw
23:26:26midknight2k3i get it
23:26:31uskii'm not happy because people say "ok shut up" :)
23:26:34midknight2k3it needs to be totally user frienly
23:26:39uskiyes
23:26:48midknight2k3i get it
23:26:52midknight2k3thats your point of view
23:27:00midknight2k3...but it's not
23:27:00uski(lol) ok i shut up...
23:27:05uskilike Zagor did lol
23:27:10midknight2k3zagor hates me
23:27:14midknight2k3what do you expect
23:27:33arspy87:-/ i dont thing anyone hates you midk :)
23:27:46midknight2k3aurep
23:27:49midknight2k3surep*
23:27:57midknight2k3if its anyone its zagor
23:28:14arspy87:(
23:29:11uskii think the problem is that there's a "philosophy" in rockbox
23:29:24Zagorthat's a problem? :)
23:29:31uskithat makes people developping a coherent "thing"
23:29:41uskiand when ppl refuses to understand this
23:29:52uskiand when they start making things that doesn't "agre" with this philosophy
23:29:57uskiit is logical that it creates problems
23:30:08uskibecause the interface/code/whatever is no longer coherent
23:30:11uskithat's my point of view...
23:30:23midknight2k3my pov is that zagor is biased
23:30:26uskirockbox is a project made by a lot of ppl, and everyone should follow one standard
23:30:36uskithis standard is what i call the "philosophy"
23:30:47midknight2k3which is that "NOT ONE fits all"
23:31:00Zagormidknight2k3: i'm biased? you mean my design decisions are not pulled out of thin air?
23:31:02uskiis everyone starts making things as he wants, rockbox will end up in a terrible mess
23:31:11uskiwith incompatibles plugins, multiple releases, and so on
23:31:15midknight2k3no
23:31:15arspy87hehe philosophy and programming fused into one
23:31:16midknight2k3zagor
23:31:29arspy87i should get an archos and rockbox to experience this
23:31:33midknight2k3i mean...
23:31:33Zagoruski: actually, everyone can do as he wishes. i just won't merge it into the version i'm distributing :-)
23:31:46uskiZagor: :)
23:31:49midknight2k3zagor: why did you merge the browser at all
23:31:53Sebulba02Thats the idea of open source, no?
23:32:04ZagorSebulba02: exactly
23:32:04midknight2k3forget it
23:32:10midknight2k3i guess it was a "bad idea"
23:32:15midknight2k3as was the whole browser idea
23:32:17uskiSebulba02: yea, but it is a problem when you start seeing a lot of different modifications that are not compatible
23:32:30uskithe aim of opensource is to allow modifications someone made to be used by another person
23:32:40uskiif everybody makes "proprietary" modifications
23:32:55uskinobody will be able to use these mods because they will not be compatible between each other
23:33:09Sebulba02uski: They don't have to be, thats why projects fork.
23:33:28arspy87aka open source?
23:33:36uskiSebulba02: generally, i don't think forking is a good thing
23:33:52Sebulba02No one said it was, thats just probably why it happens.
23:33:59uskiright
23:34:29CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
23:34:29*uski just realizes that he started a troll
23:34:34arspy87haha
23:34:49uski"what is opensource for ?" "shoudl all developper follow the same coding style ?"
23:34:51*midknight2k3 believes its called soapboxing
23:35:22uski:)
23:35:23uskigtg
23:35:28uskisee you all
23:35:34Sebulba02Later.
23:35:34uskiand think about opensource ;)
23:35:40arspy87later
23:38:01 Part arspy87
23:40:36midknight2k3zagor: is a ..ny thing worth doing?
23:41:06Zagoruseful features are always worth doing.
23:41:19midknight2k3user friendly id3 browser?
23:41:22Zagorcode that just add another way of doing something we already can do is ... not so useful
23:41:31midknight2k3sure, but thats just like plugin browser
23:41:34midknight2k3why?
23:41:39midknight2k3all the new browsing stuff
23:42:15Zagorall the browsing stuff was added because we felt configure settings should be reached from the configuration menus
23:42:33midknight2k3IMO it's just a clutter
23:42:34Zagorplugin browsing is a side effect. i'm not even sure i want to keep it.
23:42:41midknight2k3i havent used it for a purpose YET
23:42:48midknight2k3its no good
23:42:52midknight2k3it exits after use
23:42:53Zagorit's not clutter being able to choose wps and config in the menu
23:42:58midknight2k3really?
23:43:13midknight2k3i always thought (a) when do you change your wps? every day? and (b) why in the menu?
23:43:39Zagorbecause the menu is where you change all your other settings
23:43:57midknight2k3why not a sub menu "other settings"?
23:44:03midknight2k3then the browser patch?
23:44:22Zagorthat's possible
23:44:41midknight2k3its just a mess
23:45:18Zagorit's a cosmetic shortcoming. it's not a serious problem.
23:45:28midknight2k3sure.
23:45:53midknight2k3i think more time ought to be spent doing a bit more bulletproofing instead of adding new features prematurely
23:45:57midknight2k3i'll be back in a few
23:46:26Zagorrearranging menus has nothing to do with "bulletproofing"
23:49:08Zagorbrb
23:49:09 Quit Zagor ("Client exiting")
23:55:14***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"

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