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#rockbox log for 2004-05-21

00:20:08 Join Nibbler [0] (nibbler@port-212-202-78-119.dynamic.qsc.de)
00:33:10 Quit AciD ("ou double !")
00:41:33 Part amiconn
01:00
01:00:04 Join BlueChip [0] (~bluechip@cpc3-colc1-3-0-cust61.colc.cable.ntl.com)
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04:01:50 Nick midk|brb is now known as midk (Zakk@c-67-160-88-198.client.comcast.net)
04:07:03 Quit scott666 ("i'll be back...eventually...")
04:09:04 Quit hardeep ("BitchX: now in non-drowsy formula too!")
04:12:21 Join scott666 [0] (~scott666@c-24-245-59-203.mn.client2.attbi.com)
04:12:43scott666anyone here experienced with the FMR internals?
04:13:17midkme
04:13:34scott666seriously?
04:13:48midknot *too* experienced, but yes i know them
04:13:55scott666hmmm
04:14:02scott666well i meant more experienced than me
04:14:10midkdepends on how experienced you are
04:14:15scott666not sure if you qualify or not though
04:14:15scott666yeah
04:14:27scott666i need to fix the headphone jack
04:14:50midkso what is it you need to know? how to get there?
04:14:58scott666no
04:15:02scott666im already there
04:15:03BlueChip−−=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=−−
04:15:03BlueChipHi people - Just a quick note in the IRC logs to let the Windows Developers & Power Users know that I have finally put some sexy HTML code on my web page to make the Cyborg Systems Rockbox resources easier to find.
04:15:03BlueChipGo here: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/cyborgsystems and 'follow your nose' :)
04:15:03DBUGEnqueued KICK BlueChip
04:15:03BlueChip−−=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=−−
04:15:38midkoh bc i saw that today
04:15:41scott666BlueChip: didnt you add that a few days ago?
04:15:41midkVERY CNIe
04:15:42midknice*
04:16:10scott666ooh, its sexier now, i see
04:16:18midkoh it is
04:16:45BlueChipit's been under dev for a few days, but I've only just drawn a line ...Let me know if you can think of anything I have missed
04:16:45scott666mmmmm...audio 3857...it feels so good on my skin
04:16:54midknice job bc
04:17:10BlueChipThanks guys
04:17:57scott666BlueChip: ya know your 'one-click-installer' is kinda misleading
04:18:00midki grant you this for your effort:
04:18:01midkhttp://whatisthematrix.warnerbros.com/dld/NUMBER_THREE.mov
04:18:12scott666not only is it a double click, but theres also some typing involved
04:18:19midkooh
04:18:22BlueChipTYPING!!??
04:18:54scott666after youre in you have to like do stuff
04:19:14BlueChiponly if you want to use it - LOL
04:19:28scott666lol
04:19:34midkhahahaha
04:20:25scott666this soldering iron is a piece of shit
04:20:45BlueChipfile the soldering tip to a point
04:20:57webmindscott666, coldheat thing ?
04:21:12scott666i brought a new one home from school, freed the PCB from the case and HD, and the fucking end pops off the rest of it
04:21:37scott666if i hold it up the end is limp
04:21:49BlueChipYes, I have that problem sometimes
04:22:20scott666filing the tip is a bitch to do
04:22:36BlueChipbut you will get more heat at the end if you do it
04:22:49scott666yeah
04:22:57scott666but thats not the problem i have
04:25:03scott666i kinda fixed it with tape
04:25:49scott666that'll be sturdy...
04:26:05zeyou taped the tip of a soldering iron?
04:26:05BlueChipyou can makes shoes out of gaffer tape :)
04:26:15CtcpIgnored 2 channel CTCP requests in 1 day and 10 hours at the last flood
04:26:15*ze hopes he's misreading
04:26:25scott666no
04:26:26midktaped the jack afaict
04:26:50scott666i figured out that if pulled the cord back through the handle the end wouldnt be limp
04:27:01scott666so i taped the cord to the side of the handle
04:27:12BlueChipsounds painful
04:27:28scott666indeed
04:28:42scott666i gotta get this stupid jack fixed before june
04:48:49midkcsbc
04:49:25scott666midk: any idea what that ini-PCB is?
04:50:16midknoes.
04:50:21scott666*mini
04:50:29scott666it came off...
04:50:31scott666heh
04:50:43scott666the little wires just snapped off the solder
04:51:09midkum
04:51:11BlueChipword has it that it is the fm ariel
04:51:12midk"oops"
04:51:37scott666ariel?
04:51:59BlueChiphm, maybe that speeling is for washing powder
04:52:51scott666even if it is i dont know what it means
04:53:15BlueChipits a thing what picks up radio signals and gives them to your radio so it can make sensible sounds
04:54:28scott666so its only essential for radio-listening?
04:54:41scott666does the headphone jack need it to live?
04:54:48BlueChip"aerial" (wow how wrong could I have been! -lol)
04:55:18BlueChipI couldn't say for sure, I jus recall someone mentioning it on the newsgroup
04:55:28BlueChip"live"?
04:55:42BlueChipsorry, live, not live
04:55:47*scott666 's headphone jack is dead
04:55:49midk....
04:55:58midkgood one bc!!!!
04:56:24BlueChipdo you have a new socket?
04:56:28scott666no
04:56:48scott666im seeing if theres just something disconnected or if its really dead atm
04:56:48BlueChipcould be tricky to test then :(
04:57:20BlueChipgrow a couple of extra hands and hold wires in place and see if you get sound
04:58:41BlueChipor rip a spare socket off an old sound card or similar
04:59:07BlueChip(no need to grow extra hands that way)
04:59:30midkahaha
04:59:32midk8coughs
04:59:34midker
04:59:35scott666also need to get the old one out
04:59:37midkyeah
04:59:45scott666that could be trickier
05:00
05:00:52scott666http://rockbox.haxx.se/internals/fmrec_bottom_hires.jpg
05:01:17scott666does anyone know what the (relatively) big wire going to the headphone jack in the bottom left corner is?
05:02:24scott666guesses?
05:02:35BlueChipaerial? grounding?
05:02:57scott666its also disconnected
05:03:18BlueChipwhats on the other end?
05:03:26scott666and im not sure how im gonna be able to re-solder it because the part that needs soldering is in that narrow gap
05:04:50scott666theres a big copper plate soldered on top of what it goes into
05:04:50BlueChipsmaller iron :(
05:05:02BlueChipprobably grounding then
05:05:20BlueChipthat is just a guess
05:05:24scott666linus took his copper plate off
05:05:27scott666heh
05:06:55*scott666 needs to fix his headphone jack before his trip to france
05:07:13BlueChipbest speak to someone who has done it then - mayeb Linus?
05:07:45scott666yeah, thatd be good
05:07:56scott666it would have to be on the weekend though, because of time zones
05:08:10BlueChipso not THAT important then?
05:08:40scott666what?
05:08:51BlueChipstay up late one night to chat with him?
05:09:00BlueChipor get up early?
05:09:37*scott666 wonders how many hours ahead sweeden is
05:09:49BlueChipit is 05:00 there atm (iirc)
05:10:20scott666so GMT +7?
05:10:30scott666err 1
05:10:32BlueChiplol
05:10:48BlueChiperrrr, GMT I think
05:10:51BlueChip+0
05:11:02scott666(SST + 7)
05:11:08scott666((scott standard time)
05:11:08BlueChip(ahh)
05:11:13BlueChipLMAO
05:15:25BlueChipWell the angels are calling me - so I must go and dream of hot babes and chinese take-away - nite all
05:15:32midknite
05:15:36scott666later BC
05:15:49 Part BlueChip
05:49:12***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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06:01:21 Quit midk (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
06:01:42 Join midk [0] (Zakk@c-67-160-88-198.client.comcast.net)
06:21:07 Quit midk ("yo yo yo cya later YO YO YO wasa wasa!")
06:40:02 Quit scott666 ("i'll be back...eventually...")
07:00
07:11:39 Join AciD [0] (~acid@longchamp44-1-82-67-133-87.fbx.proxad.net)
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11:32:53 Quit Nibbler (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
11:38:09 Join LinusN [200] (~linus@labb.contactor.se)
11:39:54 Join pfavr [0] (pfavr@1-1-3-36a.hdn.sth.bostream.se)
11:40:00 Join Zagor [0] (bjst@1-1-3-36a.hdn.sth.bostream.se)
11:41:49LinusNhola
11:41:58Zagord00dz! ;-P
11:42:26LinusNRockbox Devcon 2004 is officially opened!
11:45:07pfavrGreat!
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11:49:17***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
12:00
12:01:46Zagorlinus is officially a chicken
12:01:59LinusNthankx björn
12:02:12LinusNok, ok, i haven't flashed my fm...
12:02:50 Join limbus [0] (~manuel@kernel.cycos.net)
12:05:13Zagorand now we get warm coke. what is this? ;)
12:29:31elinenbegood luck at Devcon 2004!
12:29:41elinenbemaybe we will see doom come out of it?
12:29:42elinenbe:)
12:56:34 Quit elinenbe (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
13:00
13:14:54amiconnhi LinusN, Zagor!
13:16:17 Join Nibbler [0] (nibbler@port-212-202-78-119.dynamic.qsc.de)
13:29:27Zagorhowdy
13:34:24amiconnHow's Devcon going?
13:39:58Zagoroh, fine. we
13:40:06Zagor've mostly just chatted yet.
13:40:17LinusNand ordered pizza
13:40:28Zagori've started on Magnus' file type patch
13:49:19***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
14:00
14:00:13amiconnWhat about the huge amount of pending bug reports and patches at sf?
14:00:33amiconnAre you going to look into these; perhaps a number of them could be simply closed?
14:07:17 Join [IDC]Dragon [0] (Lore@sourpuss.net)
14:07:43limbusIf you permit my comment: I'm pretty sure about that. I've started a small list with simply obsolete (because implemented in the meantime) feature requests as well as bugreports. Unfortunately, that list resides at home.
14:08:50*[IDC]Dragon greets the DevCon2004 !!!
14:09:20*[IDC]Dragon is unfortunately not there.
14:45:54 Join midk [0] (mk@ACAC88F8.ipt.aol.com)
14:46:17midkhi all
14:47:38amiconnhi midk
14:47:48[IDC]Dragonhi
14:48:46limbusho
15:00
15:02:00 Join mattzz [0] (~mattzz@b107214.adsl.hansenet.de)
15:02:13mattzzhi ho
15:02:25*mattzz is back from egypt
15:02:26midkhi mattzz
15:02:31midkcool!
15:02:45amiconnhi mattzz
15:03:00[IDC]Dragonsee who's surfacing!
15:03:10mattzzmany changes in CVS the last week!
15:03:39[IDC]Dragonamiconn was committing like mad
15:03:51amiconn;)
15:04:00mattzzso everything became much faster here and there I guess ;-)
15:04:19[IDC]Dragonwe could barely keep him from your mandelbrot
15:04:41midklol
15:04:49mattzzI prefer _our_ mandelbrot - so that's pretty much ok with me ;-)
15:05:11mattzz[IDC]Dragon: a question concerning the jpeg viewer....
15:05:16[IDC]Dragonmattzz: you can start right away updating it, and the metronome
15:05:31[IDC]Dragonyes?
15:06:00mattzz[IDC]Dragon: what do you think of a high speed DC-only decoding feature?
15:06:17[IDC]DragonI am doing that already.
15:06:31mattzzI c
15:06:37mattzzshould have known that ;)
15:07:20mattzzok, what about the metronome?
15:07:21[IDC]DragonDC, 2*2, 4*4, 8*8 are the zoom levels
15:07:47*mattzz is going to flash right away
15:07:54[IDC]Dragonthe plugin API now allows you to register a timer
15:08:22mattzzcool
15:08:33[IDC]Dragonyou can use that for your "tock", but you'd need to scale it further down
15:09:11[IDC]Dragonbecause the timer can at max divide the CPU clock by 8*65536
15:09:48Zagorlimbus: we appreciate help with managing the bug reports. feel free to mark obsolete reports and requests as such.
15:10:06[IDC]DragonHi DevCon!
15:10:10Zagorhehe, hi
15:10:10mattzz[IDC]Dragon:I wanted to add some functionality anyway
15:11:20midkhi zagor
15:16:46 Nick mattzz is now known as mattzz|away (~mattzz@b107214.adsl.hansenet.de)
15:18:44limbusZagor: Do I right understand that it is ok if I change those holy properties/settings ? Or do you mean I should just comment it into or make that list ?
15:19:27Zagoryes, if you know 100% the item is obsolete it is ok to change the properties.
15:19:59Zagorbut don't close fixed bugs, only mark them fixed. we close the fixed bugs when we release new versions.
15:20:33 Quit Strath (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
15:44:11midklater
15:44:13 Quit midk ()
15:49:23***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
16:00
16:01:13limbusI suppose I can't close them anyway.
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17:07:22 Quit limbus (Remote closed the connection)
17:36:51 Join limbus [0] (~manuel@kernel.cycos.net)
17:40:02 Join Bagder [0] (~dast@1-1-3-36a.hdn.sth.bostream.se)
17:40:12amiconnhi Bagder
17:40:18Bagderhey ho
17:40:35LinusNbagder just joined the devcon
17:41:03amiconnLinusN, Zagor, Bagder and [IDC]Dragon all in here - whow!
17:41:48LinusNa day to remember :-)
17:41:50Zagorone big happy family :)
17:44:01Bagderat least big :-)
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17:49:26***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
17:52:29[IDC]Dragonvirtual DevCon
17:52:56[IDC]Dragonany NetMeeting from sweden?
17:55:04ZagorAppendix B. NetMeeting LDAP protocol violations
17:55:06Zagor:-)
17:55:19Zagorgoogle can be cruel sometimes
17:58:19pfavramiconn, I'm here too!
17:58:51[IDC]DragonI'm changing from work to home now
17:59:02[IDC]Dragonsee you later!
17:59:21 Part [IDC]Dragon
18:00
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18:17:54ZagorFYI: I have limited access to the CVS server due to the current cvs vulnerability
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18:27:12*limbus is getting insane behind the firewall he has to http-tunnel around
18:29:18Zagoryeah, that's painful
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19:19:18Mode"#rockbox +o Bagder " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
19:19:52Topic"we are devcon 2004" by Bagder (~dast@1-1-3-36a.hdn.sth.bostream.se)
19:20:10elinenbehow is DevCom going?
19:20:18elinenbeI think it should be in New York City next year!
19:20:18Zagorlots of coke...
19:20:35elinenbeah... is anything new coming out of it? 2.3? New interface?
19:20:36BagderI'm in for NY!
19:20:45elinenbeI can hold 2 people at my place :)
19:20:46Zagori
19:21:05Zagori'm working on the plugin/extension code
19:21:24elinenbesounds great!
19:21:35elinenbewhat about the icon driven grayscale interface?
19:21:35BlueChipIs there any plan to allow multiple files per plugin?
19:21:36Zagorso you can tell rockboxwhich plugin to use for which file type (or select)
19:21:47ZagorBlueChip: source files?
19:22:10BlueChipmy main thought is for .h files, but multiple .c's would make writing large plugins easier
19:22:31Bagderwe support it already
19:22:33Bagder:-)
19:22:39Zagorthere's not really any limit to it today, just the Makefile isn't prepared for it
19:22:52Bagderput the additional ones in the libplugin
19:23:00Bagdermake the main one a single
19:23:54BlueChipso, example, othelo.h and othelo_gfx_funcs.c would live in lib/ ?
19:24:17Zagorwell, i'd prefer a bit more general code than othelo* :-)
19:24:26Zagorbut in principle, yes
19:26:16BlueChipokay - may I suggest that the plugin makefile could know about dependancies, so (another simple example) changes plugins/othelo_font.h would trigger a rebuild of othelo?
19:26:53BlueChipit seems a good idea to only use lib/ for stuff which will be used by multiple plugins
19:27:09Zagorthat's the general idea, but not strictly a requirement
19:27:56BlueChipI still wonder if Badgers idea for one dir per plugin might be good?
19:28:25Bagderat least for the more complicated ones
19:28:38Bagderwe could add dirs for those plugins that need it
19:28:47Zagoryup
19:28:57BlueChipmore than 1 dir a single plugin?? is there a simple example?
19:29:04Zagori'm a big fan of not solving a problem until it occurs
19:29:39elinenbeis it true the gameboy emulator is coming out of DevCom 3.0?
19:29:48elinenbeI've heard rumors!
19:30:27BlueChipa z80 emulator on an sh1 - cool
19:30:46amiconnGrr, GCC does silly things I've told it not to do!
19:32:36amiconn(1) It does link the routine for unsigned division if I divide 2 terms that only contain signed variables
19:33:17amiconn(2) It does use the 32bit multiplication library routine when I tell it that I want 16bit multiplication
19:35:26 Join wake [0] (~wake@HSE-Toronto-ppp186072.sympatico.ca)
19:40:07 Join [IDC]Dragon [0] (~idc-drago@pD9512572.dip.t-dialin.net)
19:40:18amiconnre Jörg
19:40:25[IDC]Dragonhi again
19:40:56[IDC]Dragonany pictures from DevCon2004?
19:42:19[IDC]Dragonwe non-Stockholmers feel so isolated
19:42:40Bagderlinus brings the camera
19:42:46BlueChipooh, do we get to see our "noble" leaders :)
19:43:50*Zagor is patching cvs
19:44:17[IDC]Dragonfor better or worse?
19:44:54Zagorfixing a remote vulnerability. i'd lean towards "better" ;-)
19:45:22amiconnZagor: Will there be ssh authentication, as with the sf servers?
19:45:35LinusNnope
19:45:38Zagorno. that requires local accounts, which we want to avoid
19:47:15Zagorcvs access is now unrestricted again
19:47:29[IDC]Dragonthat was quick!
19:47:48Zagoryeah, i dug up the patch from debian.org and applied it manually
19:48:18Bagderthe camera ran out of battery :-)
19:48:20elinenbeare there any/many hack attempts on the haxx.se machine/s?
19:48:38elinenbeBagder: that is why you don't want a proprietary battery!
19:48:47Zagordepends on what you mean. we get port scanned all the time, like everyone else
19:48:47Bagderindeed
19:48:59[IDC]Dragonyou guys are probable just too shy or ugly ;-)
19:48:59LinusNwww.haxx.se was 0wned just a week ago
19:49:10BagderI do get a worldrecord rate of emailviruses :-)
19:49:19Zagorluckily that's a different server from rockbox.haxx.se though
19:49:27***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
19:49:27LinusNa web hotel
19:49:28pfavrI'm trying to do a redesign of the user interface - a sneak preview is here: http://rockbox.gratiswiki.dk
19:49:29BlueChiplol
19:49:34Zagorand we don't run it :) (damaga control in progress... ;)
19:49:38elinenbejust get a nice virsu scanner and a bayseian style "filter"
19:49:46Bagderelinenbe: I do
19:50:01BagderI get 4000+ viruses every day
19:50:08amiconnBagder: The rockbox front page looks a bit unusual ;-)
19:50:12Bagderfiltering is everything
19:50:42Zagorhooo, lots of fonts :)
19:50:58Bagderhehe
19:51:07Bagdercommit more to make those fonts scroll out!
19:51:09elinenbe4000+ WHAT THE FUCK?
19:51:11elinenbeug!
19:51:12elinenbe:)
19:51:27elinenbeokay −− I'm going running −− good luck with DevCon 3.0
19:51:37Bagdersee ya
19:51:40BlueChipfront page - lol - you have been busy dan!
19:52:14BlueChiphey, you could always use a web cam or video cam for photo-shoots of the dev-con
19:52:27Bagderwe don't have any webcam here
19:52:34[IDC]Dragonif you don't post pictures, I do:
19:52:36[IDC]Dragonhttp://joerg.hohensohn.bei.t-online.de/me
19:52:50Bagderpfavr does some wallclimbing to catch the whole room in one shot
19:52:53[IDC]Dragon(unveiling the secret of how ugly I look)
19:53:15*Zagor hesitates to look... ;-P
19:55:54 Join uski [0] (~moo@gandalf.digital-network.org)
19:56:07 Quit wake ("leaving")
19:58:44*[IDC]Dragon took the pictures offline again, for safety
19:58:48Zagorhaha
19:59:14 Nick [IDC]Dragon is now known as [IDC]Dragon|afk (~idc-drago@pD9512572.dip.t-dialin.net)
19:59:29uskihi all !
19:59:39Zagorhowdy
19:59:57uskiblah, which pictures ? o:)
20:00
20:00:05amiconnBagder: Two qns: (1) Why is "fonts" a branch?
20:00:33uskiwow, Badger + Zagor + LinusN + [IDC]Dragon + amiconn + BlueChip + ...
20:00:36amiconn(2) Wouldn't "sokoban.levels" belong under /.rockbox/rocks ?
20:00:51uskia lot of devs this "evening"
20:01:28 Join HenrikB [0] (~HenrikB@as4-2-2.sjom.b.bonet.se)
20:02:45BlueChip[IDC]Dragon: "Safety" ...you're getting as bad as me
20:05:13amiconnuski: It's DevCon day in Sweden ;-)
20:05:23uskiah ;)
20:05:43LinusNhttp://linus.haxx.se/devcon1.jpg
20:06:26uskiooo
20:06:34Bagderat linus' place
20:06:43uskido i see popcorns ? or is it sth else ?
20:06:54pfavryes it is:-)
20:06:57uski:]
20:08:07uskiand what are "they" doing ? :)
20:09:06uskiapart from eating popcorns
20:09:20BlueChipwho's who? - more to the point who was the only guy willing to face the camera? lol
20:09:42uskiyea :) good question :)
20:09:50pfavrI'm trying to redesign the user interface... have this idea of having more "screens" - each suited for different tasks, e.g. Track (today's WPS), Files, ... see this link: http://rockbox.gratiswiki.dk
20:09:52uskii guess Linus is the one with the child
20:09:57pfavryes
20:10:13pfavrI'm facing the cam - it was set on timer and I had limited time....
20:10:35BlueChipbloody good shot for a timer shot :)
20:10:41pfavrthanks:-)
20:11:40uskiBjron was patching CVS i guess :)
20:11:52uskis/Bjron/Björn
20:12:18Bagderand he's on the left
20:12:24BagderI'm on the right
20:13:14BlueChipbtw dan, is your nick deliberately mistyped?
20:13:20Bagderyes it is
20:13:29BagderI'm not badger
20:13:39uskiwho want to see a photo of Bagder? :P
20:13:47uskia facing one ;P
20:14:00uskihttp://daniel.haxx.se/
20:14:01BlueChipOH! You mean I've been mis-reading your name since I first joined here? LOL
20:14:15uskidon't try to hide Bagder ! ;)
20:14:16Bagder:-)
20:14:30 Join AciD [0] (~acid@longchamp44-1-82-67-133-87.fbx.proxad.net)
20:14:35pfavrIf anyone would like to discuss user interface - please go ahead - the regular rockbox guys here are getting tired of me talking to myself...
20:14:41BlueChipDoes Bagder have a meaning?
20:14:42pfavr(and them)
20:14:43uskilol
20:14:52BlueChiplol
20:14:59LinusNno, bagder has no excuse for his existence
20:15:07BlueChipLOL
20:15:11BagderI have no meaning!
20:15:11uski:D
20:15:14uskiyea
20:15:19uskiyou don't exist
20:15:31LinusNhe's our mascot
20:15:36BlueChiperrrr, not _quite_ what I meant :D
20:15:38*Bagder stands in a corner trying to not be visible
20:15:40uskiyou're a bad pointer.
20:15:46uskiSegmentation fault.
20:15:56LinusN"perhaps if we built this huge wooden Bagder..."
20:16:06BlueChipLOL
20:16:09BagderBlueChip: but to answer the question, no it doesn't have a meaning but being my nick
20:16:25Bagder"then me, lancelot and galahad jumps out of the rabbit..."
20:16:43uskihmm
20:16:54*uski is trying to count how many archoses are visible on the picture
20:17:08uskii see 2
20:17:23Bagderyes, not that many are visible
20:17:51Zagornote the odd one above the trashcan
20:18:13uskiah yea
20:18:35LinusNthere are 4 in the picture, see if you can spot them
20:18:38Zagoralthough that's an av340 so that only counts as a half :)
20:18:48BlueChipWhere's wally?
20:19:04uskilol i was about to say it
20:19:12LinusNwth the av340, there are 5
20:20:53uskihmmm
20:20:55uskidiner time
20:21:11uskii'll try to catch them all when i'll be back
20:21:14uskibrb
20:21:42uskioh
20:21:45uskianother facing picture
20:21:46uskihttp://bjorn.haxx.se/
20:21:47uski:P
20:24:38 Nick mattzz|away is now known as mattzz (~mattzz@b107214.adsl.hansenet.de)
20:24:47mattzzah, it's picture time?!
20:27:59mattzznice.
20:28:49Topic"we are devcon 2004 http://linus.haxx.se/devcon1.jpg" by Bagder (~dast@1-1-3-36a.hdn.sth.bostream.se)
20:30:21BlueChipHas is thought being given to custom menus?
20:30:57[IDC]Dragon|afkhow's the air in that room? ;-)
20:31:23mattzzugly me is @ mattzz.dyndns.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/MatthiasWientapper">http://mattzz.dyndns.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/MatthiasWientapper
20:31:26BlueChipI'm curious about the thing that look suspiciously like a red condom hanging from the light fitting - lol
20:31:44mattzzuh, gotta go...
20:31:51 Nick mattzz is now known as mattzz|away (~mattzz@b107214.adsl.hansenet.de)
20:32:19Bagderthe air is still fine, we've had the door open a lot
20:32:40[IDC]Dragon|afktoo bad this is no webcam
20:33:22Bagderyeah :-(
20:34:38pfavrBlueChip, yes, the idea was to have a user configurable menu as well
20:34:47[IDC]Dragon|afkwhile you're all there: most important question on the list for a while - is it finally OK to name the talkbox clips "~dirname.talk" ?
20:35:19Zagoryes
20:35:21Zagorno
20:35:26[IDC]Dragon|afk(I guess Linux users are smart enought to live with the '~' )
20:35:37Zagorhaha. why the ~ ?
20:35:49[IDC]Dragon|afkmakes it sorted to the end
20:36:08Zagorthat also means "temporary file" in unix :)
20:36:23[IDC]Dragon|afkah, well
20:36:30BlueChipmay I suggest not to use .mp3, maybe .voice?
20:36:42Zagor.talk is not .mp3 :-)
20:36:42pfavrBlueChip, but I haven't figured it out yet. I think if we assign some functions to buttons which the user holds down for 0.3 second _and_ have multiple screens there will be plenty of keys
20:36:46uskiim back !
20:36:49uskifear !
20:37:15uskiLOL @ <[IDC]Dragon|afk> how's the air in that room? ;-)
20:37:44Zagorthere's a balcony just to the left in the picture. no worries :)
20:37:46Bagderwe're watching the devcon image using your JPEG-viewer jörg
20:37:58Bagderlooks neat
20:38:17uskihmmm :)
20:38:23uskii should try this jpeg viewer
20:38:37BlueChipwell, I give up - I can't find all the Jukeboxes - lol
20:38:56LinusNi'll put up the solution in a sec
20:39:15Bagderwe'll make a better archosshot once the batteries are charged
20:40:07amiconn[IDC]Dragon|afk: Does your comment within jpeg.c "we're unfortunately slower than key repeat, so empty the button queue, to avoid post-scroll" still hold?
20:40:47Zagor[IDC]Dragon|afk: i think _dirname.talk is still the best name
20:41:14uskiwhy not .dirname.talk ?
20:41:31uskiso it does not show in the browser
20:41:31BlueChip.filename is not supported by windows
20:41:32Zagorbecause windows explorer refuses two dots in a filename
20:41:40uskiloool
20:41:40uskiok
20:41:57BlueChipyou can have two dots - just not a dot as the first character
20:42:02Zagorright
20:42:04uski(...i'm quite happy to have thrown away my windows CDs when i hear this)
20:43:30BlueChip(kettle) brb
20:44:06uskihmmm anyone here having some experience at low level parallel port programming with linux ? (and no, it is not offtopic, as i need to do things with my parport to prepare some new hw mod :))
20:44:24pfavryes I have
20:44:45uskilemme send you some lines of code i'm currently using
20:46:39[IDC]Dragon|afkZagor: the _ get sorted to the front :(
20:47:14[IDC]Dragon|afkamiconn: about the key repeat rate: I don't know, try it
20:47:48[IDC]Dragon|afkbut it's probably better style to always empty it before returning in the loop
20:47:49Zagor[IDC]Dragon|afk: yes, but it's universal. i think the sort order is not very important, as long as it doesn't mix with the tracks
20:48:10BlueChipif you use .talk or .voice - it will not show normally
20:48:14[IDC]Dragon|afkhmm, 70% convinced
20:48:20ZagorBlueChip: good point
20:48:48amiconnBlueChip: .voice is already taken by the voice file for the ui, which is a completely different format.
20:49:32BlueChipami: my thought was that all the speaking type stuff would have the file ext - but yes, with the differnt format, it could get confusing
20:51:01amiconn[IDC]Dragon: An idea for the .voice files: perhaps these could be supported the same way as the .lng files - you "play" them to set another voice.
20:51:34BlueChipami: nice idea :)
20:51:36[IDC]Dragon|afkamiconn: then we need another setting to remember whis was used
20:51:43[IDC]Dragon|afkwhich
20:51:53amiconnThis selection could even be stored in the settings. This way it would easily possible to have several voice files for the same language.
20:52:02[IDC]Dragon|afkright now it corresponds to the language
20:52:39[IDC]Dragon|afkthis would be a long setting, a full pathname
20:52:44Zagori think we should keep it english.voice, for simplicity
20:53:02[IDC]Dragon|afkor deutsch.voice
20:53:05Zagori think few people actually want to swap between voices, just like people don't use alternate english language files
20:53:06Zagoryes
20:53:29LinusNhttp://linus.haxx.se/devcon1_solution.jpg
20:54:07[IDC]Dragon|afkhaha
20:59:49amiconn[IDC]Dragon|afk: I just found that the jpeg viewer doesn't react correctly on usb insertion
21:00
21:01:11limbuserrr. I don't get the issue with the filename of dirclips. why don't you FAT-mark ist as hidden ?
21:01:23limbuss/ist/is
21:02:10amiconnlimbus: It's not about to hide is, but to list it at the top or bottom
21:02:19BlueChipsolution: darn missed the one on the shelf!
21:02:19amiconns/is/it/
21:02:50HenrikBHi all, nice to see so many developers here at the same time
21:03:58limbusamiconn: then I would opt for the end of course
21:04:44amiconnThe problem with that sorting is that the various dir browsers disagree about sort order.
21:05:57amiconn...and that some naming schemes have special meanings in one os or the other
21:06:07BlueChippavr: what thoughts have you had about custom menus on the new interface
21:06:17limbusamiconn various dir browsers ? in what way ? do you mean windows explorer does sort otherwise than rockbox than linux somewhat explorer
21:06:22HenrikB.. and to find a nice special character without special meaning
21:06:43elinenbenice picture :)
21:06:49elinenbeback from running!
21:07:02amiconnlimbus: yup. Adding to the problem is that windows explorer does have something against a dot at the first character.
21:07:35limbusyeah, I know. breaking my fingers with ".java.policy" every time I try out something new
21:07:42elinenbeI think there should be a devcon every week −− does it help much with the coding?
21:08:03elinenbeBagder: don't you have an AV300? What ever happened to that project (and Dogger?)
21:08:12BagderZagor has one
21:08:49Bagderhi HenrikB
21:09:06ZagorHenrikB: I'm merging your filetypes patch
21:09:11BlueChipsorting by ascii to place after letters leaves only { | } ~ :(
21:09:51Zagorelinenbe: i haven't had time to hack on the av300 yet. I'd still like to do it.
21:10:11elinenbewho is pfavr
21:10:30Bagderhe's the guy closest to the cam on the pic!
21:10:45elinenbewhat is his real name though?
21:10:52pfavrPeter Favrholdt
21:11:04HenrikBZagor: Nice, I just uploaded a clean one
21:11:17elinenbeI've never heard his name with regards to rockbox development...
21:11:27pfavrI'm probably the guy here (in #rockbox irc) that contributed the least to rockbox :-)
21:11:34elinenbe:-)
21:11:44amiconnpfavr: pfavr isn't explained in the irc nic list
21:12:05pfavrI'm trying to do a UI overhaul... anybody like to help?
21:12:53pfavrBlueChip, sorry overlooked that one, yes I just think there should be user assignable shortcut buttons... but how it should be done is still open...
21:13:12ZagorHenrikB: I'm removing the cache file. it doesn't make a noticeable speedup.
21:13:52Zagorbagder is working on improving the builds, so we'll still be able to flash firmwares even after I remove that from core Rockbox :-)
21:13:53elinenbe<pfavr> I'm probably the guy here (in #rockbox irc) that contributed the least to rockbox :-) <−−- I haven't done too much either! :-)
21:14:21elinenbeLinusN: is that Windows you are running?
21:14:24BlueChippfavr: I like the idea of f1=rocbox menu; f2=custom menu; f3=context menu
21:14:31elinenbeLinusN: how's the wife and child?
21:15:02ZagorBlueChip: actually that's the old NEWKEYS concept :-)
21:15:17pfavrBlueChip, I'm thinking about removing the "rockbox menu" (or "Main menu") and putting all the functions out in the "Context menus".
21:15:19BlueChipzagor: is that still on the cards?
21:15:29ZagorBlueChip: yup
21:15:31LinusNelinenbe: linux with kde
21:15:38pfavrI started out looking at the NEWKEYS
21:15:46LinusNZagor is running windows :-)
21:15:51Bagderbooooooo
21:15:54*Zagor sobs
21:15:59HenrikBZagor: Ok, I belive it improved startaup with about 1 second on my slow Hitachi disk
21:16:02LinusNwife is still bad, child is ok
21:16:02pfavrBlueChip, http://rockbox.gratiswiki.dk/cgi-bin/gratiswiki.pl?action=edit&id=Custom_Menus
21:16:07Zagorit's a borrowed laptop! i'm innocent!!! ;)
21:16:21Bagderthat's what they all say
21:16:23LinusN"borrowed"
21:16:25Bagder:-)
21:16:34LinusNhe ripped it from a poor guy on the train station
21:16:42Zagorhaha
21:16:55BlueChippfavr: errrr, what am I looking at on this page - a big edit box?
21:17:03Zagorwe're producing many LOC today
21:17:16ZagorLines Of Chat, that is...
21:17:21pfavrBlueChip, just type in your wishes! it is a wiki so everyone can contribute
21:17:39LinusNit
21:17:54BlueChipokay
21:17:57LinusN's silent in this room, we use IRC for conversation
21:18:01limbusBlueChip: can't we forget about sorting of dir.clips if we hide them from the menue ?
21:18:47BlueChiplimbus: yes, I think simply not calling them .mp3 is sufficient, but other wish to get the sorting order defined
21:18:56pfavrBlueChip, I'm not sure what you mean by "custom menus". Is it the same thing as "user assignable shortcuts/keys" (maybe even in a menu)
21:19:02HenrikBZagor: If the cache is removed, remember to remove the "Reset plugin list" in "Manage settings"
21:19:19Zagorlimbus: we don't need to hide them, they are already hidden except in "Show All" mode, where we *want* to show all files
21:19:30limbusaaahhhh
21:20:05BlueChippfavr: many complain <this> option or <that> option should be in the top level menu - a custom menu would allow people to have their favourite options within easy reach
21:20:24limbusas far as almost nobody uses the "show all" for listening, do we still have to battle about BEFORE or AFTER music ?
21:20:58pfavrBlueChip, I think that is ixed by not having ONE top level menu - but e.g. SIX different "Screens" having each a top level menu.
21:21:05BlueChipI would especially like to see a sort by extension, so my playlists all group at the top
21:21:08pfavrs/ixed/fixed
21:21:17ZagorHenrikB: ah, right. thanks.
21:21:29limbusZagor: or wouldn't that justfy some ugly code to sort them AFTER music despite the fact it starts with _ ?
21:22:11[IDC]Dragon|afkwanna see how childish I am? :
21:22:13[IDC]Dragon|afkhttp://joerg.hohensohn.bei.t-online.de/archos/backlight.jpg
21:22:20BlueChippfavr: hmmm, but I would still like to find (personally) sleep-timer and backlight-timer a quick step away wherever I am
21:22:22pfavrBlueChip, I mean would the custom menu contain stuff that you cannot find already in the context menu? If no, I don't think we need custom menus - only accelerator buttons
21:22:59amiconnlimbus: It is not only about sorting these files out of the way in Rockbox
21:23:20Zagorlimbus: i think since we don't normally see them anyway it's not an issue
21:23:32[IDC]Dragon|afkat least I thought it's childish, but the white backlight is so much better (sorry for OT)
21:23:36pfavrBlueChip, ok then we probably need custom menus as well :-) How about making the context menus modifiable through config files - so that you can edit them to your own liking?
21:24:09amiconn[IDC]Dragon|afk: Thought this was blue...
21:24:12limbusok, I remember: <Zagor> i'm a big fan of not solving a problem until it occurs
21:24:34[IDC]Dragon|afklooks blue-ish, but is in fact white
21:24:42pfavrBlueChip, this would "merge" the context menu and the custom menu. The motivation being to use more buttons for functions and less for calling up different menus
21:25:01limbus[IDC]Dragon|afk: we all have got the same music on our boxes, isn't it ?
21:25:24[IDC]Dragon|afkstarting with 'A' ?
21:25:31BlueChippfavr: hmmm, not sure I agree, but I'm not sure why - it seems sensible to have context-menu defined by Rockbox - example, if context on a file, is "sleep-timer" in context?
21:25:44 Nick [IDC]Dragon|afk is now known as [IDC]Dragon (~idc-drago@pD9512572.dip.t-dialin.net)
21:26:24BlueChip[IDC]Dragon: blue leds - very cool
21:26:33[IDC]Dragonamiconn: but you're right, it's a very cold white
21:26:55[IDC]DragonBlueChip: no, white! (with a touch of blue)
21:27:05limbus[IDC]Dragon: jup, Air, Alicia Keys, Alanis, Aimee, Apocalyptica, Avril, Black Eyed Peas and so on.
21:27:14[IDC]Dragonand like 3* brighter
21:27:17amiconnWhite leds are very nice for grayscale display... just thinking about doing that mod myself.
21:27:24BlueChip[IDC]Dragon: looks vry blue in that shot - but I guess white makes the video look even better :)
21:27:39[IDC]Dragonblue movies?
21:27:43BlueChipLOL
21:27:54[IDC]Dragonblue chip LEDs
21:28:15BlueChipLOL - did you have to do anything other than replace the LEDs?
21:28:30[IDC]DragonI'd recommend some "warm white" LEDs in 1206 size
21:28:44[IDC]Dragonmine are "cold white"
21:29:09BlueChipahhh - that would explain the blueness
21:29:36[IDC]DragonBlueChip: yes, you have to cut a trace and route wires to hook up 2 in parallel instead of in series
21:29:48amiconnHow did you wire them? Iirc white leds need a higher voltage before current flows
21:29:49[IDC]Dragon(per side, that is)
21:30:15amiconnOops, ok
21:30:19[IDC]Dragonamiconn: therefore 2 in parallel instead of in series
21:31:08amiconnI will have to open my box anyway, seems that it developed that broken battery contact problem (although in an unusual fashion)
21:31:55[IDC]Dragonfor the LED mod, you only need to take off the faceplate and the battery covers
21:32:14[IDC]Dragonno bumper squezzing necessary
21:32:21BlueChippfavr: what did you make of my "context" comment?
21:33:02amiconn[IDC]Dragon: I still don't get why the jpeg viewer does not react correctly to usb insertion
21:33:40[IDC]Dragonmaybe because of that key buffer drain?
21:34:24amiconnHmm, I already took this out of the loop within scroll_bmp()
21:34:29BlueChipi can think of a number of uses for a button_empty_buffer()
21:35:16BlueChipwhat I have been considering (particularly for games plugins) is a button_inkey() which will simply retun what is being pressed at the moment it is called - not looked into it yet though
21:36:12[IDC]Dragonthis kind of functio exists - we only need to export it
21:36:59[IDC]Dragonbutton_read()
21:37:10BlueChipah - kewl! :)
21:38:33BlueChipmidk was struggling against the keyboard buffer with his breakout game - although I understand he has put that on hold now
21:38:47[IDC]Dragonamiconn: I'm not properly checking the return value of scroll_bmp()
21:39:18amiconnHmm. I've looked into this, but I don't get the problem!?
21:39:30[IDC]Dragonlegacy - this once was within main() before it became a separate function
21:39:43 Quit uski ("Fermeture du client")
21:40:06[IDC]Dragonthere's a while-loop around the scroll_bmp() call
21:40:25amiconnI've seen that
21:40:39pfavrBlueChip, taking a look at it now
21:40:40[IDC]Dragonhmm - how does it end?
21:40:52amiconnThis is to avoid re-drawing if you cannot zoom in or out an y further
21:41:22amiconnIt ends with break if none of the "if"s do a continue before
21:41:36[IDC]Dragonah, thanks for reminding me ;-)
21:42:46pfavrBlueChip, you didn't write anything on the wiki, did you? (in that case I think you didn't press save)
21:43:15amiconn[IDC]Dragon: But you are right - you aren't checking properly
21:43:50BlueChippfavr: sorry, i didn;t have any fixed ideas, just thoughts - I will chat that way instead :)
21:44:11amiconnscroll_bmp returns PLUGIN_USB_CONNECTED if usb is connected, but you check against SYS_USB_CONNECTED after the main do..while loop
21:44:24pfavrBlueChip, context menu defined by rockbox: yes. If the user customizable menus should be "merged" inside the context menu (e.g. sitting at the bottom of the context menu you could reach it instantly by UP + play)
21:44:36pfavrBlueChip, ok no problem
21:44:48HenrikB[IDC]Dragon, LinusN: There is a problem in the ata init code for flashed recorders.
21:45:17[IDC]Dragonuh, oh
21:45:39elinenbethere is a problem if I plug in my recorder to the USB and then turn it on.... it locks up my computer until I unplug it −− this is a new development.
21:45:42pfavrBlueChip, but let's say the context menu _is_ provided by rockbox - but at the same time being user customizable throuh a config file...
21:45:50[IDC]Dragondon't tell me we need to wait for nonexistant slave disks
21:46:10[IDC]Dragonelinenbe: how "new"?
21:46:12HenrikB[IDC]Dragon, LinusN: If "Dsik Poweroff" is set to Yes and you boot the recoreder with usb plugged in, rockbox will hang.
21:46:13 Join scott666 [0] (~scott666@c-24-245-59-203.mn.client2.attbi.com)
21:46:20elinenbe[IDC]Dragon: well at least the last few weeks.
21:46:25elinenbe[IDC]Dragon: I am not sure though.
21:46:29elinenbebeyond that.
21:47:00[IDC]Dragonwe didn't touch that since shortly after 2.2
21:47:28BlueChippfavr: from a support point of view, i think this will make life difficult
21:48:05HenrikBelinenbe: If you set "Disk Poweroff" to no the problem will go away.
21:48:07BlueChiphye scott
21:48:17pfavrBlueChip, maybe - or maybe the users requiring support would not be clever enough to start and modify the default menu config file
21:48:25amiconn[IDC]Dragon: jpeg viewer now reacts correctly to usb. May I commit my changes?
21:48:36[IDC]Dragonsure
21:48:59[IDC]Dragonno point in me doing it again
21:49:16[IDC]Dragonthis is open source
21:49:31***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21:49:54BlueChippfavr: so if I want sleep-timer, I just add it to all 10-or-so custom menus?
21:50:19BlueChips/custom/context/
21:51:05pfavrBlueChip, no, the sleep timer would probably be there already in the Track screen (WPS) - but let's say you want it accessible from the context menu in the playlist screen - then you would add it there...
21:52:08BlueChippfavr: where would something like Disk Spin Down be?
21:52:40 Nick BlueChip is now known as BC|BRB (~bluechip@cpc3-colc1-3-0-cust61.colc.cable.ntl.com)
21:52:47pfavrI think there would still be a "System menu" but it would be a bit more difficult to get to, e.g. requiring two keys, or holding down a key...
21:54:03[IDC]DragonHenrikB; I've just tried disk poweroff
21:54:55[IDC]DragonI plug it, switch it on, disk spins up, but shortly after gets shutdown "hard"
21:55:07[IDC]Dragonprobably by the Rockbox code
21:55:11BC|BRBpfavr: is that page a full outline of where your thoughts are atm?
21:55:16 Nick BC|BRB is now known as BlueChip (~bluechip@cpc3-colc1-3-0-cust61.colc.cable.ntl.com)
21:55:21[IDC]Dragonaccess to the drive from the PC fails
21:55:41[IDC]Dragonwhen removed again, Rockbox hangs with the USB logo.
21:55:48[IDC]DragonIs that it?
21:56:20pfavrBlueChip, yes!
21:56:31BlueChipI will read it in full now then
21:56:38pfavrSomebody wrote: I like the idea of f1=rocbox menu; f2=custom menu; f3=context menu
21:56:50HenrikB[IDC]Dragon: Exactly.
21:56:50BlueChipthink that was me
21:57:16[IDC]DragonHenrikB: so I think the shutdown is still active in USB mode
21:57:31BlueChippfavr: can you give me the link to the front page again please
21:57:32[IDC]DragonI doubt it has to do with flashing
21:58:09pfavrOk, my comments is: if we don't use all the keys for choosing different menus - we spare keys for real accelerator keys - e.g. TOGGLE shuffle using F2 in the WPS... holding F2 will TOGGLE repeat
21:58:33HenrikB[IDC]Dragon: I think LinusN's ata.c fix from 2004-02-17 (version 106) is a prime suspect.
21:58:56 Join hardeep [0] (1098@208.247.65.237)
21:58:57pfavrAnd these accelerator keys should be user assignable (maybe), or the user could choose between a fixed set.
21:59:18HenrikB[IDC]Dragon: I'll try version 105 of ata.c and see if the problem disapears.
21:59:20pfavrhttp://rockbox.gratiswiki.dk (on my server in DK)
21:59:25BlueChippfavr: I personally don't like invisible short-cuts - does anybody ever use f2+down to toggle lcd_invert (or whatever it is)?
21:59:50BlueChipot: what is "wiki"?
22:00
22:00:29pfavrwiki: wverybody can edit and add pages without needing an account. Revision control "protects" against destruction
22:00:30elinenbeI don't think ANYONE uses the F3 shortcuts...
22:00:47[IDC]Dragonata.c 1.105 is really old
22:01:17BlueChipelinenbe: care to comment why - i think becuase nobody can ever remember them and mutli-keys is awkward - but that is JUST *my* opinion
22:01:53pfavrI only use F2, LEFT for toggle the shuffle setting... And I don't understand why the "filetypes setting" should be accessible from the WPS. It is related to file browsing only
22:02:00amiconnBagder: Why is there a "rb-fonts.zip" within fonts?
22:02:14BlueChip"ON" seems like a good Shift Key ...as it clearly has no other use
22:02:29ZagorBlueChip: you don't have to remember them. a screen shows all options when you press the F key
22:02:41pfavrBlueChip, maybe ON could have some use for switching betwen screens
22:03:00BlueChipZagor: yes, but then we are back to F2/3 just being menu keys
22:03:06 Join uski [0] (~moo@gandalf.digital-network.org)
22:03:19amiconnBagder: There are some bmps as well...
22:03:20BlueChipZagor: that is how I use them
22:03:24HenrikB[IDC]Dragon: Yes, but som ata_power_on code was changed there
22:04:00pfavrBlueChip, if the F2 key just toggles the shuffle setting - you would have visual feedback on the WPS
22:04:50pfavrBlueChip, the user would just try it and see the change... But of course the setting is available through the context menu as well. And maybe the option to assign something else to F2
22:04:57BlueChippfavr: but then I have to remember f2 for shuffle, f3 for follow-playlist. on+up pitch shift, on+right ....etc
22:05:08Bagderamiconn: because I imported far too many files
22:05:16amiconnOops
22:05:20BagderI'll remove em
22:05:21pfavrBlueChip, but don't you already remember the mostly used things?
22:05:23amiconn;-)
22:05:37HenrikB[IDC]Dragon: BTW 105 should be ok, 106 should introduce the problem if I'm right about this.
22:05:44pfavrBlueChip, making it consistent throughout would make it much easier remembering
22:05:51BlueChippfavr: no, i stab at f2 and f3 until I find what I want
22:06:16Zagorbah, of course i forgot to remove the reset :)
22:06:22pfavrBlueChip, didn't understand the last comment?
22:06:52BlueChippfavr: example, i have no idea where shuffle is, but i recall it being on one of the f2/f3 menus
22:07:24pfavrIn my opinion a setting like "WPS->F3 Upside down" should go into a well-hidden system menu.
22:08:09BlueChippfavr: all very good unless it is a feature you use ...example, I use upside in the car, but right way up when I get to work
22:09:03elinenbeI think a GREAT patch to commit would be the "configure play action" patch
22:09:09pfavrBlueChip, So let's say you just hit F2 and then notice the symbol for shuffle toggling - maybe even a small overlay appears while pushing the button. Even though this wasn't what you intended to do there will be no damage whatsoever. And pushing it again will toggle it again bringing you back to where you were before.
22:09:16elinenbewhere you can set play to be insert/enqueue/etc...
22:09:35pfavrBlueChip, in the car: maybe you should load a different config file containing just this setting?
22:09:53pfavrBlueChip, (and this should be made easy as well)
22:10:09BlueChippf: car: personally I do, but I can see others want to do things differently
22:10:34pfavrBlueChip, that's the reason for having the context menues configurable:-)
22:11:00[IDC]Dragoncan somebody please poke Linus? (for the ata issue)
22:11:40amiconn[IDC]Dragon: /slap LinusN
22:11:50[IDC]Dragonwith a trout?
22:11:52BlueChippfavr: given shuffle as the example: I suggest that particular feature would be in context menu for browse & wps/track ...you could also add it to your custom menu, so you could set it from anywhere
22:12:29LinusNamiconn: ouch!
22:12:40pfavrBlueChip, I'm still a bit confused. But I think that looking at the functions there really isn't that many (if we split them according to the Screens I'm proposing)
22:12:50elinenbewhat is the benefit of that last commit? Hendrick's code?
22:12:59amiconnLinusN: I meant [IDC]Dragon should do it (for the ata issue)
22:13:00elinenbeHenrik's code?
22:13:20BlueChippfavr: yeah, i'm trying to keep up with all the chat and read your page at the same time
22:13:22Bagderelinenbe: viewing files with plugins stuff
22:13:26[IDC]DragonLinusN: how is this supposed to be, with the disk sleep in USB mode?
22:13:48Zagorrockbox should never speak to the disk in usb mode
22:13:52elinenbeBagder: how does it improve the current situation?
22:13:54pfavrBlueChip, and for everyday use I really prefer one keypress instead of three!
22:14:03LinusNwe enable ATA_STANDBY before entering USB mode
22:14:03Zagor...and obviously not cut its' power either!
22:14:10amiconnBagder: As it comes to viewer plugins - any idea for separating them from standalone plugins?
22:14:10Bagderelinenbe: it makes plugins less hardcoded for specific extensions
22:14:14[IDC]Dragonbut the ata thread keeps going
22:14:30pfavrBlueChip, please change/comment on the wiki if you feel like it...
22:14:51BlueChippfavr: I suppose a lot of this works on the reasoning that no new ideas will be added
22:14:56BlueChip(in the future)
22:15:07[IDC]Dragon(getting crowded here)
22:15:11Bagderamiconn: you mean in the source or in the archos?
22:15:23amiconnIn the Archos
22:15:42Bagderthe viewers should be in a viewers dir
22:15:55amiconnIf you go to "view plugins" there is now a really long list..
22:16:08Zagor[IDC]Dragon: the ata thread waits until USB disconnect
22:16:34pfavrBlueChip, not really, it is more about having "user task oriented screens with context sensitive menus". And as long as the number of items in a menu is small to fit on the screen - then don't add another menu!
22:17:10Bagderamiconn: it'll be taken care of :-)
22:17:11[IDC]DragonZagor, LinusN: poweroff_timeout is initialized to 2 secs (=enabled), so if no setting overrides it, maybe this kicks in?
22:17:24BlueChippfavr: If you don't mind - I will comment on one thing at a time ...I'm starting to get a bit confused in honesty and I dont want to add to that confusion...
22:17:25limbusamiconn, Bagder: why not sort viewers, games, demos and so on either in different menu-trees by a plugin-property or otherwise by subdirs ?
22:17:58Zagor[IDC]Dragon: no. the loop stops in usb_wait_for_disconnect(). it can't get around to check the timeout.
22:18:01pfavrBlueChip, (but I'm not feeling very strongly about not having a custom menu also - it is just a waste if there is only one item in it. Well, maybe this is the answer - if you only have a single item in your custom menu and it is a TOGGLE function then hitting the F key will just toggle the function...
22:18:14BlueChippfavr: track: hold-play==stop :( off=stop :) ?
22:19:08pfavrBlueChip, I was thinking this: why have a STOP function at all? Except for a shortcut for PAUSE and return to beginning of track?
22:19:51pfavrAnd I would like to use OFF for something else throughout the system: exit menu in _one_ go and return to the screen.
22:20:23BlueChippfavr: for me OFF should go back up one level ...from Track this is logically the browser
22:21:25pfavrBlueChip, (really appreciate you comments btw :-) I think LEFT is used for browsing menus/dirs/whatever and this should be used consistently
22:21:44elinenbeBagder: "amiconn: it'll be taken care of :-)" Do you have something up your sleeve?
22:22:02pfavrso making OFF like pushing LEFT a number of times makes sense I think
22:23:46[IDC]DragonZagor: it doesn't seem to be the 2 secs, that was coincidence.
22:23:55HenrikB[IDC]Dragon: I was wrong, the ata.c 106 code did not cause this problem. My apologies Linus
22:24:13[IDC]Dragonbut it looks like the disk power gets cut when I first access it
22:24:34[IDC]DragonHenrikB: is it ok or not with 106?
22:24:39[IDC]Dragon105
22:25:18HenrikB[IDC]Dragon: It still freezes with the 105
22:25:23BlueChippfavr: (your welcome dude - contrary to certain traits I am infamous for, I am always TRYing to help ;) ) ...i agree that LEFT should move up one menu, or up one dir ...OFF in Track seems very logical to be "stop" ...in a dir OFF may move to root? ...in a menu, the menu-key (eg F1) should exit the menu?
22:26:21scott666wow, busy here today
22:26:54[IDC]Dragonso this is an old bug, nobody noticed...
22:27:05Zagor[IDC]Dragon: seems like it
22:27:43[IDC]Dragonwe must have done something with the disk so it powers down on access
22:28:09[IDC]Dragonor somehow the ata thread is more alive than we like it to
22:33:15LinusN[IDC]Dragon: how can i repeat this?
22:33:40[IDC]Dragonwith a recorder, disk poweroff set to yes
22:34:05[IDC]Dragonplug it while off, then power on
22:34:31LinusNthen what?
22:34:39HenrikBLinusN: ... and running rockbox flashed
22:34:43[IDC]Dragoncomes up normally, but when I access the disk, it shuts off
22:34:59[IDC]Dragondunno if flashing is essential
22:35:02Zagorspooky
22:35:30LinusNworks for me
22:35:50[IDC]Dragonwhen removing it _somehow_ (PC may be stuck with it), Rockbox still shows USB screen
22:36:28[IDC]DragonLinusN: flashed old-style recorder?
22:40:13LinusNi can repeat it now
22:40:25amiconn[IDC]Dragon: I do also get that behaviour...
22:40:50[IDC]Dragonso far everybody then
22:41:17 Quit edx (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
22:41:21amiconnThis does not occur with "disk poweroff" set to no
22:43:52Zagormust be a hardware problem... ;*)
22:45:55amiconn[IDC]Dragon: An additional observation: if this occurs, and Rockbox hangs at the usb screen after pulling it out, wait 30 secs. Then an "ata error -71" shows up
22:46:45HenrikB[IDC]Dragon: same for me, ata error -71
22:48:39[IDC]DragonI must have been too inpatient
22:50:01[IDC]Dragonset_multiple_mode() failed the first wait_for_rdy()
22:50:10elinenbehow about this for archos: http://www.ticalc.org/archives/files/fileinfo/340/34089.html
22:50:15elinenbeit even comes with source :)
22:50:26[IDC]Dragon(probably just the first thing to happen on the powered-down disk)
22:51:47[IDC]Dragonelinenbe: how big is a TI-89 screen?
22:52:31BlueChipshould I mention the size of a ZX81 screen running in "graphics mode"??
22:53:15[IDC]Dragonjust found: 160*100
22:53:18elinenbe[IDC]Dragon: hmmm... not sure.
22:53:28elinenbehow big is the Rockbox screen?
22:53:34Zagorelinenbe: 112x64
22:53:40elinenbeI think games written for the ti-85 would work great on the Archos.
22:53:46elinenbethat screen is smaller....
22:53:47amiconnBlueChip: LOL - 64x44. I know this one
22:54:11BlueChipMazogs anyone?
22:54:16elinenbeand there is a huge source of games and code for that...
22:54:57BlueChipbut text mode is a problem
22:56:47limbusZagor: thanks for idle-poweroff set to 10 by default. it's one of the most important settings that get's lost with new firmware everytime. I just noticed my rockbox drained the batteries all day :-(
22:57:48Zagorlimbus: yeah, 0 was a really silly default setting...
22:58:07scott666can i get a response about my V2 battery faq being added to the site?
22:58:26 Quit Ka__ ("Leaving")
22:58:31limbusI barely learned to check/reset the battery capacity to 2300 mAh
22:58:45Zagorscott666: i'll fix it
23:00
23:02:32scott666'fix' it?
23:02:47Zagoradd it
23:02:52scott666ok
23:03:06Zagoris the latest in your mail to the list today?
23:03:15scott666yeah
23:07:11[IDC]Dragonamiconn: why gray_release_buffer() on USB connect in scroll_bmp()?
23:07:49[IDC]Dragonthat's done by the caller, shoudn't be the responsibility here
23:07:49BlueChippfavr: I had thought that the best way to add custom menu items was to press the custom-menu button on an option while you are in the main menu
23:08:16amiconnHuh? I _removed_ it, for that very reason!?
23:08:28BlueChippfavr: or maybe the context menu for a menu item would be "add to custom menu"
23:08:47pfavrBlueChip, not sure it should be possible to _change_ the custom menus using rockbox. Maybe you need a text editor for that?
23:08:55[IDC]Dragonamiconn: oops, sorry
23:09:02BlueChippfavr: why not?
23:09:17pfavrBlueChip, although I would like everything to be doable from rockbox as well
23:09:18[IDC]Dragonthe diff windows were the other way round
23:09:52pfavrBlueChip, complexity - code size mainly - I'm told there is not much to work with:-)
23:10:26pfavrBlueChip, take a look at this page: http://rockbox.gratiswiki.dk/cgi-bin/gratiswiki.pl?RecentChanges
23:10:58pfavrBlueChip, but it could go on a wish list for the custom menus ...
23:11:39pfavrBlueChip, are you editing the front page?
23:11:43BlueChipgoing screen blind - gotta go stare at something else for 5 mins - brb
23:12:02BlueChippfavr: not sure - am I editing the wrong thing -urgh! sorry!
23:12:14pfavrBlueChip, nono it was just to coordinate
23:12:28pfavrI'm just adding something to the front page - no problem
23:13:01Zagorscott666: added
23:13:02pfavrBlueChip, If we're working on the wiki simultaneously - we might experience "save conflicts". It just means that the last guy saving will be presented with 2 editboxes and is forced to (if he wants to keep his changes) to merge his changes from the bottom editbox and into the upper editbox. It is not really a problem (when you're not scared to try it) - but otherwise we need to coordinate what pages we're editing.
23:17:20Bagderscott666: nice work on the faq!
23:19:55scott666Bagder: thanks!
23:22:07scott666should the name of the old one be changed?
23:22:30 Quit uski ("Fermeture du client")
23:22:37amiconnBagder: I wonder about the number of changes that is listed for each daily build tomorrow morning ;-)
23:22:49Bagderhehe
23:22:54Bagderit'll be a bunch
23:23:08Bagderand the daily build might not even build :-)
23:23:27Bagderwe've now changed to using the new "make zip"
23:24:06 Join Ralle[DK] [0] (~Ralle@129.142.195.95.ip.tele2adsl.dk)
23:24:12Ralle[DK]can any1 help me?
23:24:14amiconnAnd tested it, I'd think? I guess the number will have 3 digits
23:24:30Ralle[DK]I REALLY need help pleeeease
23:24:34scott666Ralle[DK]: with what?
23:24:35BagderRalle[DK]: ask away
23:25:02Bagderamiconn: I think everything was added bugfree :-P
23:25:06Ralle[DK]its because... when i open some rock it all the time says: imcompatible version and i cant flash it because it say that
23:25:31Zagorfaq .... #32, isn't it?
23:25:35scott666yes
23:25:42Ralle[DK]ehh?
23:25:44Ralle[DK]sorry
23:25:46Ralle[DK]sorry?
23:25:53Zagorah, no too low :)
23:25:58scott666i answered that question on the mailing list a minute ago
23:26:07Ralle[DK]and that is?
23:26:15Bagderrolo first, then ucl
23:26:19Ralle[DK]ok
23:26:23Ralle[DK]wiat what?
23:26:25Ralle[DK]rolo?
23:26:26scott666rolo: http://rockbox.haxx.se/docs/faq.html#32
23:26:38Zagorrun the ajbrec.ajz file first, then the .ucl
23:27:17Ralle[DK]that is new right?
23:27:37Ralle[DK]it is new that you have to do that right?
23:27:39Bagderno, that's needed every time the plugin api changed
23:27:46Ralle[DK]hmm
23:27:50[IDC]DragonZagor: it's definitely the ata thread moving, while plugged. I just attaced a led(true) to the ide_power_enable(false).
23:27:51Bagderwhich happens from time to time
23:27:58Ralle[DK]dont understand but i will try
23:28:05scott666i believe thats been in the battery faq since the beginning
23:28:43[IDC]DragonZagor: and the LED goes on that moment the HD powers down, on that access while plugged
23:28:55Ralle[DK]ahh now it works.. thanks m8s
23:29:26Ralle[DK]i think its so cool that there is a IRC site only for the archos
23:29:30Ralle[DK]cya
23:29:32 Quit Ralle[DK] (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- irc client ownage!")
23:29:43Bagderirc *site*? :-)
23:29:57scott666lol, thats what i was thinking
23:30:17Bagderrockbox - your favourite irc site! :-P
23:30:45scott666why is the NODO doc in the advanced users section?
23:31:15scott666the feature chart too
23:32:43BlueChipback - need to get less white on this monitor
23:33:14limbusBlueChip: or just better one ?
23:33:18 Nick mattzz|away is now known as mattzz (~mattzz@b107214.adsl.hansenet.de)
23:33:33BlueChipscott666: I'm still confused why the downloads are under "documentation for advanced users"
23:34:06scott666yeah, that too
23:34:11BlueChiplimbus: maybe, but my decent monitor is only 15" so I slipped that to my gf and use a freebie 17"
23:34:36mattzzpfavr: do you use the wiki for rockbox stuff only?
23:35:19pfavrWell, no - it is a "wiki hosting for free" service that I run...
23:35:31BlueChippfavr: where were we?
23:35:43mattzzpfavr: I do kind of the same :-)
23:35:55pfavrmattzz, you just type mattzz.gratiswiki.dk">http://mattzz.gratiswiki.dk in a browser to create a new wiki...
23:36:44pfavrBlueChip, I just added some hints on how to navigate the wiki and did a little "wiki" markup to you contribution http://rockbox.gratiswiki.dk/cgi-bin/gratiswiki.pl?Custom_Menus
23:36:45mattzzpfavr: nice! I better stay with my one at mattzz.dyndns.org">http://mattzz.dyndns.org
23:37:11[IDC]DragonZagor: Could it happen that other events than SYS_USB_CONNECTED and Q_SLEEP get in the ata queue? That would make it wake up.
23:37:58pfavrmattzz, yours are much nicer looking - heh it is Twiki I have a couple of those too :-)
23:38:41amiconnHow is that filetype association thingy supposed to work?
23:38:46pfavrmattzz, gratiswiki is a modified usemodwiki.pl - and I kind of like it because of its simplicity
23:38:51mattzzpfavr: Thanks. Currently I am setting up a CSS/XHTML based skin that will look much nicer
23:39:33[IDC]Dragonamiconn: there was a posting thread about it
23:39:35amiconnI've moved all viewer style plugins to /.rockbox/viewers, and can open files with on+play -> "open with"
23:39:47Bagderamiconn: its controlled by a config file
23:39:52pfavrmattzz, haven't seen you in #twiki I think?
23:39:57Bagderor by naming the viewer "correctly"
23:40:01mattzzpfavr: I played around with usemodwiki.pl the other day. It does a nice job but is very basic though
23:40:16Bagderwe should write a doc about it
23:40:20*amiconn searches the mail archive
23:40:21mattzzpfavr: I have been there twice the last weeks
23:40:27scott666can feature request 622395 be closed now?
23:40:37mattzzpfavr: but never before
23:41:04scott666'.jpeg viewer'
23:41:30Zagoramiconn: you have two options:
23:41:43Zagor#1 edit .rockbox/viewers.config
23:42:04pfavrBlueChip, still here? want to discuss some more UI?
23:42:08Zagor#2 put a plugin called <extension>-<name>.rock in .rockbox/viewers
23:42:13limbusBlueChip: Working daily on a screen and not yet a TFT ?
23:42:13mattzzpfavr: I thought about offering wiki-space for rockbox development to the rockbox-crew
23:42:34BlueChippfavr: fer sure
23:43:13BlueChiplimbus: yeah, still on that good ole phosphor radiation :)
23:43:36BlueChiplimbus: unless you're offering to buy me a nice TFT?
23:43:57scott666phosphor radiation pwns
23:44:33BlueChipi try to make up for it by not cooking my brain with a mobile microwave
23:44:44BlueChipsorry, microwave -> phone
23:44:44limbusBlueChip: don't forget I am still a trainee. but I have to admint that my employer takes care: 18" TFT
23:44:47LinusN[IDC]Dragon: i have located the ata bug
23:45:29BlueChippfavr: so what's next?
23:45:31[IDC]Dragonah?
23:45:31amiconnZagor: Thanks, it works now.
23:45:47[IDC]DragonQ_SLEEP?
23:45:56LinusNthe usb monitoring starts before the ata thread is started
23:46:06Zagormattzz: actually i'm working on setting up a wiki right now :-)
23:46:16pfavrBlueChip, well hmm I guess we need to figure out how to switch between screens
23:47:12pfavrand then describe all actions - modes whatever in detail
23:47:22[IDC]DragonLinusN: with what consequence?
23:48:11mattzzZagor: You can start right away on my server if you want to. But I guess you want to do that on a haxx machine
23:48:27BlueChippfavr: screen switching ....hmmm okay, so a tree of what you can get to from where is in order?
23:49:08Zagoryes, I think it's more clearly "the official rockbox wiki" if it's located on the rockbox.haxx.se server. thank you for your offer, though.
23:49:15BlueChippfavr: you mentioned console stlye screens - allowing you to suspent a plugin to select new music - that is probably the biggest consideration
23:49:18pfavrBlueChip, yes (and this is some of the things a TWiki with the drawing plugin could be really useful for)
23:49:30mattzzZagor: what wiki are you going to use?
23:49:32LinusN[IDC]Dragon: the ata thread wasn't notified about the USB
23:49:36***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:50:01LinusNbut rockbox entered USB mode anyway
23:50:10BlueChippfavr: lol - you're keen - I would do it as a ir structure and use something like dir2html :)
23:50:19BlueChips/ir/dir
23:50:27amiconnpfavr: Suspending a plugin to switch screens may be tricky for those plugins that do their own screen access (video/jpeg/grayscale atm)
23:50:32[IDC]Dragonwhy was the disk shutdown on the first access?
23:50:34Zagormattzz: we've been using twiki at work for years, so that was my first thought. I looked a little at owiki too.
23:51:13pfavrBlueChip, then just write is in the wiki using indentation or e.g. bullets like this * base level, ** sub level, *** subsublevel
23:51:21LinusN[IDC]Dragon: it wasn't for me
23:51:26LinusNi think
23:51:28BlueChippfavr: yes, for a global plugin system, it would need to be in the core code for screen handling routines
23:51:57[IDC]DragonLinusN: OK, let me test
23:52:02BlueChipi think for plugins it might be better to have a lib system which plugins are required to implement
23:52:21mattzzZagor: I think twiki is a nice one. ugly but powerful
23:52:44Zagorugly can be fixed :)
23:52:53 Quit Bagder ("Client Exiting")
23:53:03BlueChiptry telling that to my gf
23:53:05BlueChipOUCH!
23:53:11BlueChipLOL
23:54:18pfavryou will only be able to "pause" a single plugin, e.g. leave this plugin suspended while doing other stuff and then returning to it later. If you don't have any plugins running it could be used for a "screensaver" which is just a special case of the plugins which don't handl any buttons.
23:54:18mattzztry girlfriend?skin=heidi_klum - might work
23:54:41scott666yeah, just change her skin
23:54:45BlueChipLOL
23:54:47scott666...ed gein style
23:54:48*mattzz is losing track
23:55:10BlueChippfavr: yes, obviously only one plugin at a time - I think that will have to stay like that
23:55:40[IDC]DragonLinusN: yes, that seems to fix it
23:56:12[IDC]Dragondo you want to commit, or should I?
23:56:24pfavrThe video output plugins will not be a showstopper regarding the plugin suspend (I'm told) as Rockbox uses cooporative multitasking. Those plugins will only be suspended at the point the call yield()
23:56:50BlueChippfavr: okay - that makes sense
23:57:03LinusN[IDC]Dragon: i committed before i told you :-)
23:57:06amiconnpfavr: These plugins do their output with an interrupt routine (!)
23:57:32[IDC]DragonLinusN: OK
23:57:33BlueChippfavr: I think a top level code which calls only one "Screen" deep, to get to another screen you "return" with an instruction as to where to go next
23:58:00pfavramiconn, you're right - there might be a problem (and maybe somebody will come up with a solution as well ;-)
23:58:30BlueChipwould it be best to leave plugins as JUST A CONSIDERATION for the time being
23:58:31BlueChip?
23:58:49pfavrI think some of this is 3.0 stuff... ?

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