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#rockbox log for 2004-07-01

00:01:53T^JulioVegaHELLO?
00:10:58 Quit T^JulioVega (Remote closed the connection)
00:20:32***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:42:53 Quit hermes (Client Quit)
01:00
01:08:08 Join top_bloke [0] (~ekolb_pot@0-1pool12-41.nas6.oakbrook1.il.us.da.qwest.net)
01:16:39 Part amiconn
01:34:57 Quit AciD` (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
01:35:17 Join AciD [0] (~acid@longchamp44-1-82-67-133-87.fbx.proxad.net)
01:45:26 Quit scott666_ ("i'll be back...eventually...")
01:52:30 Quit mecraw ("Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com)")
02:00
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03:00
03:26:38 Join telliott [0] (telliott@208-251-255-120.res.evv.cable.sigecom.net)
03:27:25telliottWhat can I do with the new "Screen Dump" feature?
03:27:35hardeepdump the screen
03:27:52telliottTo an image file?
03:28:10hardeepit saves it as bmp iirc
03:28:41telliottCool. How do I dump the screen?
03:29:02hardeepsee: http://rockbox.haxx.se/twiki/bin/view/Main/ScreenDump
03:29:17telliottok. Thanks.
03:37:28 Quit Hadaka (Ping timeout: 14400 seconds)
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03:37:47 Part telliott
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05:05:20 Join scott666_ [0] (~scott666@c-24-245-58-48.mn.client2.attbi.com)
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05:36:11 Quit hardeep ("[BX] A friend with weed is a friend indeed")
05:39:15 Quit AciD ("ou double !")
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06:10:45 Join midknight2k3 [0] (~Zakk@c66-235-14-120.sea2.cablespeed.com)
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06:27:28 Join Nibbler [0] (nibbler@port-212-202-73-96.dynamic.qsc.de)
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07:01:44 Join LinusN [200] (~linus@labb.contactor.se)
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08:13:45 Join Bagder [241] (~dast@labb.contactor.se)
08:14:34LinusNyo Bagder
08:14:45Bagderg'day ol' cap'n
08:14:56Bagdereye eye
08:15:12*LinusN gulps down a can of spinach
08:17:45dwihnoArr!
08:20:44***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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09:00
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09:14:45 Join Zagor [242] (~bjst@labb.contactor.se)
09:23:14Bagder"the repository is 1.2 GiB, has 19934 active and
09:23:15Bagderdeleted files, 404014 CVS revisions, 911 tags, 82 branches. 1308 files
09:23:15Bagderare bigger than 100 kiB, and 134 files are bigger than 1 MiB."
09:23:21Bagderguess which? ;-)
09:24:28Bagdergcc!
09:31:27Zagor134 files bigger than 1 MiB. that's a lot.
09:31:45Bagderyeah, it makes you wonder what it is
09:47:00 Join [IDC]Dragon [0] (~c2af7556@reladm.kharkov.net)
09:47:13LinusNhi [IDC]Dragon
09:47:18[IDC]Dragonmoin
09:47:30[IDC]Dragonwassup?
09:48:01LinusNnot much
09:48:15LinusNi have a slight problem with the settings code
09:48:20[IDC]Dragonwatching the game, having a bud...
09:48:31[IDC]Dragonoops, which?
09:48:38LinusNi have two MDB parameters, ranging from 30Hz - 300Hz
09:48:58[IDC]Dragonnew settings, I guess?
09:49:05LinusNand the current code forces me to use 9 bits for that
09:49:20[IDC]Dragonso we run out of bits?
09:49:22LinusNbut the actual register values are 5-30
09:49:31LinusNso i waste a lot of bits
09:49:44[IDC]Dragonthe return aof val2phys? :-(
09:50:00[IDC]Dragonof
09:50:18LinusNwell, i have to move a few of the current rtc values
09:50:20LinusNto disk
09:51:05[IDC]Dragonno catastrophy
09:52:41LinusNnot really, it just bothers the perfectionist in me
09:53:44LinusNi'm about to commit a change in settings_apply()
09:53:51[IDC]Dragonheh, you weren't bothered we had that code
09:54:04[IDC]Dragonbefore we had
09:54:29[IDC]Dragonwhat does the change do?
09:55:00LinusNi remove the arguments to mp3_initm and add a separate apply function for the sound settings
09:55:16 Join Doensen [0] (~Doensen@168-187.244.81.adsl.skynet.be)
09:55:16[IDC]Dragonah, good
09:55:40[IDC]Dragonor you could start my apply concept...
09:55:54LinusNwhich is...?
09:56:20LinusNan argument to settings_apply()?
09:56:23[IDC]Dragonhaving a bit mask as an argument for which modules's settings to apply
09:56:37LinusNthat is probably better
09:56:45LinusNi'll do that
09:56:50[IDC]Dragonso we could call it a couple of times during init, as we walk along
09:57:46[IDC]Dragonto apply each mudules' setting after it got initialized
09:58:15[IDC]Dragonwell, actually we don't need to call it _that_ often
09:58:40LinusNsuggestion for categories?
09:58:53LinusNsound is one
09:59:06[IDC]Dragonbefore the charging screen and after disk loading will probably suffice
09:59:30LinusNbasically, RTC and non-RTC stiff
09:59:33[IDC]DragonI'd give it a bit for each modele we touch in there
09:59:33LinusNstuff
09:59:56[IDC]Dragonmodule = *.c implementation file
10:00
10:08:41dwihno*yawn*
10:11:39LinusN[IDC]Dragon: we still need to apply all parameters in the charging state
10:12:09LinusNwith the disk stuff all set to default
10:12:15[IDC]Dragononly thosefrom the modules initialized so far (?)
10:12:38LinusNoh, of course
10:13:26LinusNstill, the display settings are split, some in rtc and some on disk
10:14:06[IDC]Dragonwe woul automagically apply the defaults for those, then
10:14:12LinusNyup
10:14:30[IDC]Dragonlater, the general apply can do better
10:14:45LinusNso we have SOUND, DISPLAY, PLAYBACK, SYSTEM ?
10:15:02LinusNBOOKMARKS
10:15:06[IDC]Dragonyou're not going for my module bits?
10:15:07LinusNVOICE
10:15:40LinusNnot sure that it is a good way of separating things
10:15:57LinusNfor instance, should mpeg and mp3_playback be separate modules?
10:16:05[IDC]Dragonand a prefix for the names, perhaps
10:16:45[IDC]Dragona bit per module makes it easy to maintain, no doubts about which to put where
10:17:13LinusNhmmm
10:17:37Zagorwon't there be confusion about which settings belong to which module? some settings are set/used all over.
10:17:48Zagoror am i missing something?
10:18:14[IDC]Dragonthist is only internal, for the init
10:18:44[IDC]Dragonyou can always group the bits in an apply call
10:19:12[IDC]Dragonlater in the app, you'd probably set them all, giving today's behaviour
10:19:44LinusNmeaning we will apply some settings several times?
10:19:59[IDC]Dragonis this so bad?
10:20:13[IDC]Dragoncurrently we always apply all
10:20:19LinusNonce, yes
10:20:48***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
10:21:40LinusNi'd rather have more generic groups, like SOUND, PLAYBACk etc
10:22:05LinusNthen we don't need to think about where they are implemented
10:22:52[IDC]DragonI get your point, but this is a bit "dangerous" during init, when not all modules are initialized
10:23:27[IDC]Dragonif you know the modules by the bits, you're in control
10:23:55LinusNyes, but do we need that control?
10:24:30[IDC]Dragonat least we should be very aware otherwise
10:24:35LinusNand basing the names on the file names...?
10:24:52LinusNshouldn't we be aware anyway?
10:25:09[IDC]Dragondo we have modules with settings which would fall into different categories?
10:27:22LinusNinvert_cursor, for example, which module is that?
10:27:33LinusNtree? menu? sound_menu?
10:27:57LinusNtimeformat?
10:28:23LinusNcar_adapter_mode
10:29:08[IDC]Dragonthe module is easy to tell, I meant the category
10:29:43LinusNwhich is the module for invert_cursor?
10:30:10[IDC]Dragon(the module is the function settings_apply() calls with it)
10:30:18*[IDC]Dragon checks...
10:31:01LinusNactually, invert_cursor doesn't need applying
10:31:40[IDC]Dragonwell, then the application would be the "module"
10:32:22LinusNwhy do we need this fine granularity?
10:32:32[IDC]DragonI was rather after settings which get applied to a driver
10:32:54[IDC]Dragonwe don't need it, I thought it helps to prevent errors
10:33:14LinusNi think a huge apply() function is way more safe
10:33:21[IDC]Dragoncou can make meta-defines for larger groups by bit combinations
10:33:26LinusNwe init all modules and the call apply()
10:33:29LinusNthen
10:34:28[IDC]Dragonbut the issue was that not all modules are initialized when the first apply phase is helpful...
10:34:38LinusNthen we solve *that* problem
10:34:51LinusNnot any other imaginary problems that we not yet have
10:35:19[IDC]Dragonwhat's *that* problem?
10:35:35LinusN the issue was that not all modules are initialized when the first apply phase is helpful
10:35:51[IDC]Dragoncan that be solved?
10:36:11LinusNyes, by splitting up the apply()
10:36:12 Join Nibbler [0] (nibbler@port-212-202-73-96.dynamic.qsc.de)
10:36:16[IDC]DragonI see at least 2 stages
10:36:28LinusNyes
10:36:31[IDC]Dragonsigh, back to square one
10:36:50LinusNbut 2 stages is a lot less that a big bunch of separate modules
10:36:50[IDC]Dragon(sorry for being such a PITA)
10:37:09ZagorPITA is good :)
10:37:29LinusNi mean, we shouldn't go for an "over-complicated" solution
10:38:02Zagori agree with the philosophy "don't fix problems we don't have"
10:38:47[IDC]Dragonminimal solution: give it a sigle bit which apply that is
10:39:09LinusNRTC or DISK
10:39:12[IDC]Dragon(before charging vs. at the very end)
10:39:18[IDC]Dragonyes
10:39:54[IDC]Dragonand then be very aware not to apply settings to non-initialized drivers
10:40:08LinusNyup
10:40:22[IDC]DragonI wanted to avoid that dependency
10:40:28LinusNhmmm, hard to take a screen shot of the USB screen :-)
10:40:37Zagor:)
10:40:47LinusN[IDC]Dragon: i agree with your concern
10:41:16ZagorLinusN: we could have a key for usb connect/disconnect in the simulators. would be good for testing too.
10:41:25LinusNi think we do...
10:41:36Zagorreally?
10:43:02LinusNsomewhere...
10:43:24BagderI think it was a menu entry
10:44:08Bagderin the debug menu or something
10:45:04Zagora key would be better
10:45:10LinusNabsolutely
10:54:39LinusNthe problem is that the USB thread is inactive in the simulators
10:55:07LinusNso the whole broadcast stuff is non-working
10:55:24Zagorah
11:00
11:00:17Zagor[IDC]Dragon: in my opinion, a clear comment in the settings code is better than "safety code"
11:02:35[IDC]Dragonas you wish
11:03:20LinusNpart of our KISS philosophy
11:04:22LinusNthe problem is that "simple" means different things to different people :-)
11:05:03Zagoryeah
11:07:17Bagderwell, just let me decide ;-)
11:07:45Zagorhaha
11:07:49[IDC]DragonOT: especially error checks are always subjects of debates
11:07:50dwihnoNo!
11:07:52dwihnoNo no no!
11:08:31[IDC]Dragon(but we weren't talking about error checks here)
11:09:06LinusNit's a very interesting topic to discuss
11:10:43[IDC]DragonNo!
11:10:50[IDC]Dragon;-)
11:22:48LinusN:-)
11:44:48 Quit Strath ("Client closed")
11:58:50 Quit Doensen (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
12:00
12:03:27 Quit c0utta (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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12:20:03 Join midk2k3 [0] (~Zakk@c66-235-14-120.sea2.cablespeed.com)
12:20:50***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
12:32:56 Join Jois [0] (~xxx@host164-238.pool81114.interbusiness.it)
12:33:59Joishi
12:34:14*Jois loves RockBox with TalkBox
12:34:32Joiswonderful software
12:47:04*Bagder has no talk installed
12:48:48JoisI am a newbie of rockbox
12:50:06LinusNJois: welcome to the wonderful world of rockbox
12:50:24Jois:) thanks!
12:50:35*Bagder holds up the welcome banner
12:50:53JoisI have 2 feature requests/feedbacks to launch but I tried to register to sourceforge and I received no confirmation yet :(
12:52:48JoisI am subscribing to the mailing list, so that I can discuss & share everything with others.
12:53:02Bagderthat's the spirit
12:53:10Bagderprepare to get a lot of mails ;-)
12:53:42Jois:) I think so! ... and viruses? No I hope
12:54:55Bagderwe only allow posts from subscribers and we strip most attachments
12:56:03Bagderbut then there are 566 subscribers...
12:56:56JoisI have a question: where is Rockbox configuration file saved? By mistake last Sunday night I just changed the language from english.lang to italiano.lang (my mother language); so, forgetting to put italiano.voice on it, Rockbox stopped talking
12:57:27 Part Zagor
12:57:28JoisI just deleted it and re-installed (the .rockbox and *.ajz file) but it didn't work! Does it save files in another place?
12:57:32Bagderit is stored in an unused sector on your disk
12:57:37[IDC]DragonJois: the "normal" saving is invisible
12:57:51[IDC]Dragonbut you can save it into a file manually
12:58:02Joisah OK so I just uploaded on my .rockbox/langs dir the .voice file.
12:58:04[IDC]Dragonthere's an option to do so
12:58:21Joiswhere?
12:59:00 Nick Nibbler is now known as NibbIer (nibbler@port-212-202-73-96.dynamic.qsc.de)
12:59:00 Nick NibbIer is now known as Nibbler (nibbler@port-212-202-73-96.dynamic.qsc.de)
12:59:09*[IDC]Dragon looks...
12:59:17Nibblerwhoops
12:59:27JoisPropose: for talkbox users, could it be possible to put an alert? I mean: while changing language and pressing OK, it just asks (if there's no voice file corresponding to the lang file): "are you sure? this would stop voice" continue? yes, no
12:59:35[IDC]DragonF1->General Settings->System->Manage Setting
13:00
13:00:10JoisI'll look at it when I go back home where my archos is
13:00:46[IDC]DragonJois: I think this "feature" would be a bit too much
13:01:23 Nick Nibbler is now known as NibbIer (nibbler@port-212-202-73-96.dynamic.qsc.de)
13:01:23 Nick NibbIer is now known as Nibbler (nibbler@port-212-202-73-96.dynamic.qsc.de)
13:02:52 Join Zagor [242] (~bjst@labb.contactor.se)
13:02:58Joisit could be a problem... if for example you are italian and by mistake you select "afrikaans.lng"... and there is no voice in it, there's no way to help! A sighted person who of course does not understand the new language could not help to reset it back!
13:03:45Bagderit *could* be a problem
13:03:50Bagderbut it hasn't been so far
13:04:02Joiswhat do you mean?
13:04:20LinusNyou are the first to mention it, afaik
13:04:22Bagderwe tend to not fix problems until we know it truly is a problem
13:04:45Bagderwe have _very_ limited memory to play with, that means we leave out everything we can
13:04:51Jois:) for blind people, it is a problem
13:05:09Jois(i am blind, and this happened to me)
13:05:21Zagorsolution: learn afrikaans ;)
13:05:37Jois:)
13:05:40*Bagder grins
13:06:31Joiswell I just propose, then if it can be fixed OK, otherwise it doesn't matter. I think TalkBox is such a wonderful thing as it is.
13:06:44LinusNJois: so basically, you would like a safety mechanism so you don't accidentally change the language (and lose the voice)
13:06:58Joisyes
13:07:15Zagorwould something like "are you sure you want to load a new language?" be enough?
13:07:29Joisof course
13:08:05Zagorok
13:08:12Joisor: "load the new language? there's no speech in it"
13:08:39Bagderthat would be a lot more advanced
13:08:53Zagorwell I guess you don't want to load afrikaans even if there is speech in it :)
13:08:53LinusNi think a single-language installation would be best in this case
13:09:14ZagorLinusN: good point
13:10:12JoisI meant, about the "no speech": the confirmation message says
13:10:43Jois"the .voice file could not exist; load new language anyway?
13:11:35 Nick Nibbler is now known as NibbIer (nibbler@port-212-202-73-96.dynamic.qsc.de)
13:11:35 Nick NibbIer is now known as Nibbler (nibbler@port-212-202-73-96.dynamic.qsc.de)
13:11:39LinusNJois: we understand, we meant that it involved looking for a matching .voice file, and that's a lot more complicated than just asking "are you sure"
13:12:35Joisyes, I do not ask to look at .voice files I just say to mention it in the confirmation message so before going on you know the risk you are running. :)
13:14:11LinusNhow about this: when voice is activated, only list those languages that have a voice file...?
13:14:20Zagorouch
13:14:35LinusNwhy ouch?
13:14:43Bagderit isn't necessarily what you want
13:14:43LinusNwe look for .lang files, don't we?
13:15:10LinusNi think it is
13:15:14Zagori honestly think removing all the unwanted languages is both the best and simplest solution
13:15:19LinusNbecause you install the voice files manually
13:15:23Joisyes, when you select the "language" options, it lists all .lang files in the .rockbox/langs directory
13:16:01Zagormaybe christy can add a language option to her installer.
13:16:26Zagoror are installers perhaps difficult to use when you are blind?
13:16:32JoisLinus, OK!!! that is a very good solution: if voice is on, list only voice-supported langs!
13:16:49LinusNZagor: but in jois case, removing the unwanted languages wouldn't help, since it was the .voice file that was missing
13:17:43JoisLinus you gave the right solution! If talkbox is on, the "language" menu lists the files which have .lang and .voice
13:17:46Bagdersure, if only .langs that have .voice are present
13:18:02LinusNyes, we still need to look for both
13:18:25LinusNbut i still think it's a Goot Thing to do
13:18:28LinusNGood
13:18:52Bagderbut if I have voice enabled, using english and want to switch to swedish that has no voice?
13:18:56Bagderand it is fine with me?
13:19:07BagderI'm not blind
13:19:36LinusNhmmm
13:19:44Jois:) you temporarily move the .voice files and reboot
13:21:11Bagderthat hurts
13:21:53JoisBagder sorry I did not think of your case :(
13:22:31JoisI just supposed that a sighted person couldn't want to switch language on a blind's "toy" :)
13:22:42Bagderhehe
13:23:07LinusNvoice is nice for sighted people too
13:24:16JoisLinusN yes except for my boyfriend that says he goes crazy :)
13:24:44LinusNhaha, it's *your* toy, not his :-)
13:24:54BagderJois: you're not supposed to read them out loud when you hear them you know ;-P
13:25:09JoisLinusN I have all talking machines so he cannot control my things (PC, cell phone and now the MP3 player too!) :-)
13:25:55JoisBagder what do you mean?
13:26:03BagderI'm only kidding
13:26:27Joisyeah
13:26:52JoisIt could be nice also to have a possibility to increase and decrease voice rate but I do not think it's possible as there is no synthesizer engine in it
13:27:42Joisvoice rate I mean reads 100 words per minute, 150, ecc...
13:28:06BagderJois: right, it isn't possible to change that due to how the hw works
13:28:26Zagorwe could change playback speed ;)
13:28:34Zagorsmurf voice feature
13:28:36Bagderyeah, with a pitch
13:28:53Joisyes but it sould increase/decrease the music too.
13:29:11LinusNthat, if anything, will really drive your boyfriend crazy
13:29:27LinusNwe can change the pitch for the voice only
13:29:30Joishahaha I love to have fun with voice synths I made it sing
13:30:13JoisLinusN really? that could be good. for example, the possibility to have a pitch for menus and a pitch for file names
13:30:35LinusNthe spelling is a pain as it is now
13:30:39LinusNslow
13:31:42Joisyes
13:31:45[IDC]Dragonhi again, I was afk
13:32:03[IDC]Dragonspelling is only slow with the "wrong" voice file
13:32:24[IDC]Dragonthe ones provided by Jens are better
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13:32:33 Nick NibbIer is now known as Nibbler (nibbler@port-212-202-73-96.dynamic.qsc.de)
13:32:39[IDC]Dragon(which are in wiki now)
13:32:43JoisLinusN a friend of mine made a .vbs script working on Windows machines that allows to create .talk files (that are .mp3s) containg the file names, spoken by a synth installed on the user's pc
13:33:25Joiswhich? Which new voice files?
13:33:39[IDC]Dragonyes, we have such.
13:33:44[IDC]DragonMaybe it's been invented twice now
13:33:50[IDC]Dragon(the script)
13:34:14[IDC]DragonJois; where did you get your voice file from?
13:35:18Joiswait, wait a moment I must go away for some minutes. I am coming back very soon.
13:35:22[IDC]DragonLinusN: About .lang browsing: the voice feature is on by default.
13:35:55[IDC]Dragonso filtering them by .voice presence is no good idea.
13:36:12LinusNi know
13:38:56LinusNmaybe the "no voice file present" queue is the best solution after all
13:40:27Joishere I am. I didn't follow your conversation sorry
13:41:26JoisOK, I got my .voice file from http://rockbox.haxx.se/voice/english.voice
13:41:54Joisand the italian one from www.cisad.it/archos but it is _not_ updated, I got it just to reset english rockbox
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13:42:35 Nick NibbIer is now known as Nibbler (nibbler@port-212-202-73-96.dynamic.qsc.de)
13:43:36BagderJois: http://rockbox.haxx.se/twiki/bin/view/Main/VoiceFiles
13:43:51Bagderthat's where the new ones are
13:48:40[IDC]DragonBagder: can you link http://rockbox.haxx.se/voice/ to twiki?
13:48:44JoisAs a sound-effect-"specialist" I am curious to know how voice files are built
13:48:50Bagder[IDC]Dragon: just did
13:49:09[IDC]Dragonah, proactive!
13:49:16Bagder:-]
13:49:47[IDC]DragonJois: basically they are a collection of many small mp3 files
13:49:50LinusNjois: a text-to-speech engine
13:49:59Joisit's just curiosity; I suppose they are created by the Microsoft voice synth
13:50:01[IDC]Dragongenerated by a TTS script
13:50:35Bagderthere's one human spoken one too ;-)
13:51:50JoisI am in the main page VoiceFiles; which one should i download?
13:52:05LinusNwhichever you prefer :-)
13:52:30BagderJois: there are 10 different english voices
13:53:19Joisyes I noticed
13:54:14LinusNtry them all and pick the one you like
13:54:25[IDC]DragonJois: I'd recommend the ones generated with AT&T Natural Voices
13:55:53Bagdergood old C= is making an mp3 player now
13:56:31[IDC]DragonBagder: url?
13:56:32ZagorBagder: i've seen that, isn't it simply brand theft?
13:57:02BagderZagor: you mean of the C= brand? no, it's been sold multiple times since the old days
13:57:08Zagoroh, this is not what I'd seen previously
13:57:19Bagderhttp://www.commodore.net/site/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabindex=5&tabid=45&itemid=2&sitemid=9&prod=13&cat=1&specs=1&#stopspecs
13:57:53Bagder"28 minutes of anti-shock"
13:57:57Bagder1.8" HDD
13:58:06Bagderhey
13:58:14Bagder"Nicole-Lithium" battery
13:58:16Bagderhehehe
13:58:31BagderNicole?
13:59:25Joisyou mentioned battery: how can I see how alive is my battery on archos jukebox recorder 20?
13:59:29dwihnoHaha
13:59:31dwihnoNicole! :D
13:59:31Joisgeneral settings, system, battery?
13:59:56[IDC]DragonJois: Info -> Rockbox info (iirc)
14:00
14:00:07Zagorwhat's with the white "hat"? it would have been good-looking without it.
14:00:23Bagderyes, that looks odd
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14:00:36 Nick NibbIer is now known as Nibbler (nibbler@port-212-202-73-96.dynamic.qsc.de)
14:00:56[IDC]Dragonit would have been good-looking with the LCD up to there
14:01:08Bagderit claims to have a usb host
14:01:19Bagderor...
14:01:39Jois[IDC]Dragon :-) Such a stupid girl I am! I thought rockbox info were such as "read the firmware version" and all
14:02:03Bagderthe site is more than a little slashdotted right now so its a bit slow to click around in
14:02:26[IDC]Dragonah, that's why
14:02:52JoisI notice every day there's a new build on the site; is it risky to update it daily?
14:03:11[IDC]DragonJois: no
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14:03:29 Nick NibbIer is now known as Nibbler (nibbler@port-212-202-73-96.dynamic.qsc.de)
14:03:33[IDC]DragonBagder: this box is even smaller than the Gmini 220
14:04:06Jois:( I must wait till 18:30 to try the new voice files as my toy is at home
14:04:45[IDC]DragonBagder: and lighter
14:05:05Joisbye!
14:05:07[IDC]Dragonthe xclef is larger
14:05:09Bagderbye Jois
14:05:21[IDC]Dragonbye
14:06:04JoisLet me say this: Rockbox with Talkbox is THE FIRST free project I have seen for "non-computer" hardware systems, to help the blind. The one for cell phones is NOT free and very, very expensive!
14:06:27[IDC]DragonJois: my pleasure!
14:07:14[IDC]Dragon(ahem, I take credit for making those voice menus)
14:07:23Zagoras well you should
14:07:47ZagorJois: if they ever make a cellphone that is hackable, i'll be there :)
14:07:48[IDC]Dragon</vanity_mode>
14:08:17JoisOf course some "traditional screen reader functionalities" are missing, because of the hardware architecture but IT DOES NOT MATTER, you are doing as much as you can, no one can do miracles :)
14:08:35Bagdernot even Jörg?
14:08:44[IDC]DragonI don't know what a "screen reader is"
14:09:04JoisZagor hackable phone? what do you mean?
14:09:24ZagorJois: i have never seen a phone with a user interface I'm happy with. I'd like to write my own.
14:09:26[IDC]Dragonthe term "screen reader" was mentioned often
14:09:28LinusNa phone which we can develop our own firmware on
14:09:54Joisaha... I know I have Nokia 9210i that has symbian OS in it
14:10:01[IDC]Dragonget a java-enabled phone
14:10:13Joisthere is a product, Talks, that interfaces with Symbian
14:10:19Zagor[IDC]Dragon: no good. you can't access the phone hardware
14:10:27Zagorso you can only make silly games etc
14:10:42Zagornot even a decent calendar, since you aren't allowed to modify the sim contents
14:10:49Joisah, you need to access the phone's hardware? I am not expert :-)
14:10:52[IDC]Dragonyou can't make a replacementt UI?
14:11:01Zagorcorrect
14:11:12[IDC]Dragon:-(
14:11:48JoisWell: the screen reader is a program that interfaces to the operating system installed on the computer or the phone
14:12:29JoisI am angry because the Talks program has the serial number depending on the GSM IMEI number, so that if my phone breaks down, I am... in the SH!T
14:14:39Joishere's the "SCREEN READER" proper definition
14:15:09JoisScreen reader = A software program that reads the contents of the screen aloud to a user. Screen readers are used primarily by individuals who are blind.
14:15:09JoisScreen readers can usually only read text that is printed, not painted, to the screen.
14:16:48[IDC]Dragonread with voice, I guess (not braille)
14:17:07[IDC]Dragonisn't that a lot of babble then?
14:17:24[IDC]Dragonand all the formatting...
14:17:39dwihnoand all the typos!
14:17:40Joisyes, braille and voice
14:17:55Joisof course it doesn't read colors & fonts
14:17:58LinusNwhen i paint on my screen, i can't see a thing
14:18:19*LinusN ducks
14:18:28Joisit means, for "painted", for example gifs, jpg's, png's, flash animations (images)
14:18:40[IDC]DragonLinusN: have you tried?
14:19:11LinusNyeah, i use tipp-ex to correct my typos
14:19:13LinusN:-)
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14:19:28Joisbut Braille can not be implemented in "non-computer" things, the Braille display is a VERY EXPENSIVE hardware tool, connecting to the USB or serial port; for phones, cd players, etc... voice is the only solution
14:20:55***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
14:21:15JoisI leave you, lunch break has terminated
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14:21:48[IDC]DragonNibbler: what are you doing?
14:23:35Nibblerummm
14:23:39Nibbleri'll try stopping it
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14:52:36[IDC]DragonI think it stopped...
15:00
15:07:07[IDC]DragonArchos has now officially released the AV400
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16:39:02ZagorNibbler: please stop that
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16:45:16Nibblerargh
16:45:23Nibbleri dont understand this
16:46:04Nibblershould be stopped now, i hope it does not reappear
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17:21:48Sliderhi all
17:22:13Sliderneed help by using archos Jukebox Studio 10
17:26:47Nibblerwhats wrong?
17:27:24Slideri try to copy some dir's onto the Jukebox but after i pull the USB cable the dir's are away
17:29:10Slidercan anyone help me ?
17:33:13Sliderwhere should i copy my mp3 Dirs ?
17:34:48Nibblerwell, do u "savely remove" your jukebox?
17:37:10Sliderno whats that ?
17:40:08Nibbleru using winXP?
17:40:24Nibblerin the system-tray area, there is an icon for usb-attached hardware
17:40:34Nibblerright-click it and choose to savely remove hardware
17:43:41Sliderok, now it works ! Thank you very much !
17:43:53Nibblernp ;-)
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19:24:13RyeToastafternoon
19:24:17RyeToast(at least here)
19:24:29RyeToastanyone around?
19:28:35hardeepsure
19:29:20RyeToastk. looks like I've got a v1 jukebox 20. acts like I need to do the battery terminal repair
19:29:35RyeToastable to keep it running with the battery charger inplace, and tweeked to the side a bit
19:30:18RyeToastbut, when I say running - I mean connected via usb
19:30:46RyeToaststubbornly refused to play
19:31:08RyeToastif not the buffer full (I've set max limits to the max) - then it simply goes back to the directory listing
19:31:36RyeToast:|
19:32:45hardeepdoes rockbox show it as charging?
19:32:56RyeToastyup
19:33:07RyeToastaltho the batteryterminals appear to be so messed up
19:33:18RyeToastthat it's sometimes hard to even get it to boot all the way to the rockbox
19:33:25RyeToastwith it acting this flaky, I hesitate to flash the rom
19:33:42hardeepyeah, that's probably a good idea
19:34:09hardeepsounds like bad hardware
19:34:15RyeToast:|
19:34:33RyeToastwell. I guess it was still cheaper than buying a lacie portable hdd
19:34:55RyeToastjust going to require more effort if I wanna use it for music I guess
19:36:07RyeToastwanna buy it :p
19:39:04hardeephave you looked at the documents related to repairing common problems?
19:40:15RyeToastyep
19:40:41RyeToastit's how I tripped across the battery connection thing
19:40:44hardeephave you tried them?
19:40:50RyeToastunfortunately, I didn't look before I bought it
19:40:52RyeToast;)
19:41:10RyeToasthaven't had a chance yet
19:41:32RyeToastbbiab -
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