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#rockbox log for 2004-08-31

00:00:01 Join scott666_ [0] (~scott666@c-24-245-58-48.mn.client2.attbi.com)
00:01:05bagawkhey scott666_
00:40:05***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:42:21 Quit zeekoe ("kids' bed time")
00:48:46 Quit bagawk ("umount /dev/brain")
00:51:41 Part amiconn
00:59:34 Quit edx ()
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01:06:41 Join amiconn [0] (jens@pD95D1E3D.dip.t-dialin.net)
01:08:35 Quit amiconn (Client Quit)
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02:29:33 Quit mecraw ("Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com)")
02:37:38 Quit AciD` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
02:40:09***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:40:49 Join zipr [0] (~458f7b50@labb.contactor.se)
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03:04:35 Join AciD [0] (~acid@longchamp44-1-82-67-133-87.fbx.proxad.net)
03:23:01 Join bagawk [0] (Lee@ACC6E1EC.ipt.aol.com)
03:27:01 Quit AciD (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
03:47:00 Part scott666_
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04:02:14 Quit bagawk ("umount /dev/brain")
04:32:35 Quit Nibbler (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
04:38:35 Nick midk is now known as midk|brb (~midk@66.235.14.120)
04:40:13***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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05:10:02 Join AciD [0] (~acid@longchamp44-1-82-67-133-87.fbx.proxad.net)
05:18:54 Nick midk|brb is now known as midk (~midk@66.235.14.120)
05:57:09 Join Jedi86 [0] (~43a78162@labb.contactor.se)
05:57:38 Quit Jedi86 (Client Quit)
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06:05:20 Join Nibbler [0] (~andrer@port-212-202-73-41.dynamic.qsc.de)
06:40:14***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
06:41:33 Quit Nibbler (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
06:45:34 Quit midk (Remote closed the connection)
06:47:44 Join midk [0] (~midk@c66-235-14-120.sea2.cablespeed.com)
07:00
07:08:04 Quit AciD ("Il vaut mieux douter de ses certitudes que d'être sur de ses doutes.")
07:18:00 Join LinusN [0] (~linus@labb.contactor.se)
07:18:32midkhey linus
07:22:17LinusNyo
07:23:04midkthanks a ton to strath for more or less rewriting my horrible collision detection, breakout is very near done...
07:24:30midki was just curious, i use rb->sleep(HZ/levelspeed) to slow down the ball (levelspeed would be "20" for easy, "30" for med, "40" for hard, etc) the paddle moves slower depending on the difficulty of the level (i'm using your button_status() function)
07:25:16midkwhile this works fine in general i was wondering if there was a solution to scanning the buttons at a constant fast rate instead of different rates due to the sleep() used..
07:35:18LinusNyou use raw button reads?
07:35:37midkyeah
07:35:58LinusNyou should poll the keys more often
07:36:00midkint button; button = rb->button_status(); switch(button { [x] }
07:36:17midkhow so?
07:36:30midki mean without adjusting the sleep, which will affect the ball speed..
07:37:32LinusNone approach is this:
07:37:40midki could do something like... int x... add 1 to x each time i read the buttons.. and if x is equal to three or four i would move the ball and reset x to zero.
07:37:47LinusN- poll the keys each ms
07:38:24LinusNthen use TIME_AFTER() and current_tick to find out when to move the ball
07:38:54midkwhich is similar to what i just mentioned, isn't it?
07:39:07LinusNeach ms...i mean every tick, which is 10ms
07:39:23LinusNsimilar, yes
07:39:35midkusing button status i'd need to sleep how long to poll every tick?
07:39:44LinusNsleep(1)
07:39:54midkthat'd be just a bit too fast :)
07:40:06LinusNthen you don't get it
07:40:15midkhm, i suppose not.
07:40:32LinusNit doesn't matter how fast you poll the keys
07:40:58LinusNas long as you use current_tick with the TIME_AFTER() macro to handle the timing
07:41:02LinusNexample:
07:41:35LinusNnext_update = rb->current_tick + HZ/levelspeed;
07:41:43midkso you'd end up polling very fast but only taking presses into account 1/4 of the time or so?
07:41:53LinusNsort of
07:42:02LinusNthen you can do debouncing etc
07:42:21midkhmm...
07:44:53LinusNdo you still have my buttonexample.c
07:44:55LinusN?
07:45:03midkyep
07:45:12midki've referred to it
07:45:23LinusNthere you can see how i use current_tick and TIME_AFTER
07:50:59midksite down?
07:52:53LinusNyes
07:53:04LinusNyou said you have it... :-)
07:55:14midk:) is buttonexample in cvs?
07:55:45dwihnoAnother day, another dollar
07:55:56LinusNmidk: no
07:56:03LinusNi'll email it to you
07:56:15midknot what i was looking for.. actually trying to spot that cvs doc so i could request permission to commit it when i'm finished if you're not around to approve/test it, assuming i found out how to use "cvs add" correctly ;)
07:56:17midki've got it.
07:56:32midki was just wondering if/why the site was down
07:56:37dwihnoLinusN: I got a reply regarding memory chips. 10e a piece. I'll order 5 of them when my economy doesn't look as disasterous :)
07:56:46LinusNseems to be a router problem somewhere
07:57:56LinusNdwihno: rockbox.haxx.se is not down as far as i can see
07:58:09midkyou mean midk :)
07:58:11LinusNnot dwihno, i mean midk
07:58:12midkodd, i can't access it
07:58:21dwihnoI reach it as well
07:58:35midkgrr.
07:58:40LinusNit may very well be the same router problem, just that i take another route than you
07:59:31dwihnoRoute 66, perhaps
07:59:32dwihno;)
08:00
08:14:20 Quit Hadaka (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
08:17:31 Join Naked [0] (naked@naked.iki.fi)
08:17:33 Nick Naked is now known as Hadaka (naked@naked.iki.fi)
08:18:47 Join Nibbler [0] (~andrer@port-212-202-73-41.dynamic.qsc.de)
08:21:08 Join amiconn [0] (~jens@pD95D1E3D.dip.t-dialin.net)
08:21:47amiconnhi all
08:22:00midkhey amiconn
08:22:18LinusNhola
08:40:17***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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09:00:05 Join Zagor [242] (~bjst@labb.contactor.se)
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09:20:23midkreboot brb.
09:20:24 Quit midk ("just STOP it arspy")
09:22:27 Join midk [0] (~midk@c66-235-14-120.sea2.cablespeed.com)
09:30:32 Join kurzhaarrocker [0] (~knoppix@p508769E2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
09:30:55*kurzhaarrocker senses a scent of fish
09:30:55kurzhaarrockerIs that you, LinusN? ;D
09:38:54midkLinusN, if you get this, i'm heading to bed, but wanted to ask for a "clear_button_status" function or something like it if possible, because even if i sleep for a second or two before exiting breakout i still get stacked up keys, and not sure why..
09:39:54midkfinished with the constant button repeat rate/different speed of ball problem, using my method, the easiest one imo, works just fine
09:40:04 Part kurzhaarrocker
09:40:11midkall that i really want to do now is make the ball move faster if it hits the edge of a paddle... and i'm half finished with it
09:40:18midkwill perhaps work on this tomorrow, or in a few days.
09:40:23midkanyways..
09:40:36midktime for bed. nite all
09:40:49 Nick midk is now known as midk|sleep (~midk@c66-235-14-120.sea2.cablespeed.com)
10:00
10:20:24 Join [IDC]Dragon [0] (~d90a3255@labb.contactor.se)
10:25:25dwihnoWillkommen zurück, Jörg \o/
10:27:22[IDC]Dragonmorning guys!
10:29:36[IDC]Dragonhow are the chips?
10:34:10 Join Nibbler [0] (~andrer@port-212-202-73-41.dynamic.qsc.de)
10:36:56dwihnoI'll order some when my economy stabilizes
10:38:50 Join Lynx_ [0] (lynx@134.95.189.59)
10:40:20***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
10:41:56[IDC]Dragonwhich ones can you get?
10:53:50dwihnoI'll get those you recommended.
11:00
11:00:25[IDC]Dragonhow boring...
11:05:45dwihnoI'm 100% illiterate when it comes to hardware
11:10:34[IDC]Dragonamiconn: don't bid for my Ondio!
11:13:57[IDC]Dragonshoot, I didn't get it
11:15:19Lynx_do you use a sniper?
11:15:49[IDC]Dragonno, manual sniping
11:16:54[IDC]Dragondidn't work: a) I came to late b) my offer was too low
11:17:16Lynx_hehe
11:17:41[IDC]DragonLynx_: where you involved there?
11:20:12 Join lImbus [0] (~manuel@kernel.cycos.net)
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12:30:03Lynx_no
12:40:21***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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13:20:48 Join Nibbler [0] (~andrer@port-212-202-73-41.dynamic.qsc.de)
13:38:51 Join Schoki2_ [0] (Schoki@DSL01.212.114.238.221.NEFkom.net)
13:56:02 Quit amiconn (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
13:56:02NSplitleguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
13:56:02 Quit Hadaka (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
13:57:42NHealleguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
13:57:42NJoinamiconn [0] (~jens@pD95D10DF.dip.t-dialin.net)
13:57:42NJoinHadaka [0] (naked@naked.iki.fi)
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14:14:10 Join Philipp [0] (~knoppix@p508769E2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
14:15:04 Part Philipp
14:16:46 Quit Schoki2_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
14:26:51[IDC]DragonZagor: r u there?
14:27:57Zagori am now
14:28:33[IDC]Dragoncould you add FAT16 support for the Ondio?
14:29:27[IDC]Dragon(would you, may you, ...)
14:29:35Zagorwhere?
14:30:02[IDC]Dragonto Rockbox' file system code, where else?
14:30:29Zagori thought maybe you meant some web page description :)
14:30:36dwihno;)
14:30:46Zagorhow far has the ondio project come?
14:31:03[IDC]Dragonas far as me failing to ebay one today
14:31:08[IDC]Dragon;-)
14:31:39amiconn[IDC]Dragon: ;((
14:31:53Zagorhehe. esniper.sourceforge.net
14:32:05[IDC]Dragonseriously, it seems it basically takes an MMC driver substitute for the ATA driver, and the file system
14:32:50[IDC]Dragonamiconn was my competition today
14:33:05Zagoraha
14:33:24Zagorwhy this sudden interest in flash players?
14:33:47[IDC]Dragonbecause Lee found out it's the same hardware
14:34:02Zagorreally?
14:34:06[IDC]Dragonor was this known? At least not to me.
14:34:14Zagori had no idea
14:34:34Zagorany pictures or other info posted anywhere?
14:34:36[IDC]Dragonyou can "run" an Ondio firmware on an FM/V2
14:34:51[IDC]Dragonor "rescramble" it for a V1
14:35:09[IDC]Dragongets as far as the boot screen when roloing
14:35:23Zagornice
14:36:08Zagorpretty ironic that nobody found out until now :)
14:36:25[IDC]Dragonsee http://rockbox.haxx.se/mail/archive/rockbox-archive-2004-08/0590.shtml and followups
14:36:48Zagorah. i'm behind on the list...
14:37:04[IDC]DragonI've tried as well today, works for me too.
14:37:30[IDC]Dragonthe change in scramble.c is not necessary, if you take the smaller firmware
14:38:00dwihnoThe ondio battery usage seems sick
14:38:05dwihno3 batts lasts 12 hours
14:38:08dwihno(AAA)
14:38:18Zagoris that good or bad you mean?
14:38:39[IDC]Dragonare they rechargeable?
14:38:50dwihnoit's bad
14:39:07dwihno12 hours for a flash player (3xAAA batts) is silly
14:40:22***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
14:40:22Zagori know nothing about flash players :)
14:40:47Zagorbut yes, the sh7034 isn't the most energy efficient processor out there
14:40:58[IDC]Dragonnot is the MAS
14:41:01[IDC]Dragonnor
14:41:25[IDC]Dragonand flash and RAM
14:41:49dwihnoWell
14:41:49[IDC]Dragonmany components for a flash player
14:42:02dwihnoAs long as the sound is kick-ass... ;)
14:43:24 Join silencer [0] (~silencer@dyn-213-36-132-47.ppp.tiscali.fr)
14:43:38[IDC]DragonZagor: so how about the FAT16 support?
14:44:47Zagori don't remember exactly what needs to be added, but unless it becomes too messy I don't see a problem. fat12 is the really messy code (as in "no way")
14:45:33Zagori guess we can't force people to fat32-format their ondios ;)
14:46:10[IDC]Dragonwe could, Archos supports the full range
14:46:32Zagorbut can you make windows fat32-format disks that are so small?
14:47:06[IDC]Dragonnot out of the box, perhaps, but tools may do
14:47:32[IDC]Dragondunno which is most economical
14:47:51amiconnIirc fat32 is only allowed by Windows for partitions >512 MB
14:48:12Zagoramiconn: yeah, but that is a tool limitation. the filesystem itself has no such limitation
14:49:05amiconnAnd if rockbox will run on the Ondio, it should support fat12 as well (the Archos fw does)
14:49:34Zagorfat12 is for floppy disks
14:50:14Zagorhow do you know the archos fw supports it? have you tried using a 2MB flash? ;)
14:51:38[IDC]Dragonbecause they advertise it?
14:52:05Zagorwell they advertised upgradable audio codecs for the jb6000 too :)
14:53:52[IDC]Dragonsome more background knowledge: the Ondio uses an internal flash that is something like an MMC on a chip. So we need only one driver.
14:54:21Zagorwhat sizes do they come in? 64/128 or only 128?
14:54:34[IDC]DragonThe chip is called SDBT1F-1024, see http://www.sandisk.com/pdf/semiconductors/ProdManualMMC_TriFlashv1.2.pdf
14:54:42[IDC]Dragononly 128 MB
14:55:06[IDC]Dragonyou can plug an additional MMC
14:55:45[IDC]DragonUSB is done by a USB1.1 <-> MMC bridge
14:56:07Zagorusb-storage class, or vendor specific?
14:56:30[IDC]DragonAU9330, see http://www.alcormicro.com/product_au9331.htm for a similar, but not the exact product
14:56:55Zagorok
14:56:58[IDC]Dragonmass-storage profile, I'm confident
14:57:06Zagorwell with 128MB, there is no need for fat12 support at least
14:57:14Zagoryes
14:57:25[IDC]Dragonis there an upper limit for FAT12?
14:57:58Zagoryes, 4096 clusters
14:58:01[IDC]Dragonor, what is the ...
14:58:24[IDC]Dragoncertainly, fron the 2^12. max cluster size?
14:59:11Zagoryes
15:00
15:00:40Zagormax cluster size is 128 sectors
15:02:16[IDC]Dragon64KB clusters * 4096 = 256MB
15:02:35[IDC]Dragonso, worst case, it could be FAT12
15:02:37Zagoryes but there is more to it. hang on, will dig up reference
15:02:50[IDC]Dragonbut let's ignore that for now
15:07:38amiconnZagor: I was wrong, see http://www.archos.com/download/firmware/README_ONDIO_FM_history.txt lines 21,22
15:07:46Zagora cluster can be max 32KB, ie max 64 sectors if each sector is 512 bytes
15:08:11Zagorah, good
15:08:57[IDC]Dragonphew
15:09:59Zagorfat12 is really really horrible, with sector-spanning fat entries and other nasties
15:12:12Zagor"There is no dynamic computation for FAT12. For the FAT12 formats, all the computation for
15:12:12ZagorBPB_SecPerClus and BPB_FATSz16 was worked out by hand on a piece of paper and recorded in the
15:12:12Zagor table. If your media
15:12:12Zagoris larger than 4 MB, do not bother with FAT12."
15:12:21Zagorow, ugly paste :(
15:12:51Zagoranyway, it's a non-issue now
15:22:58LinusNfunny, my first FAt implementation (on which the rockbox FAT driver is based) had FAT16 support, but not FAT32
15:23:53Zagorhehe yeah i stripped out the fat16 support and then there was not much left ;)
15:24:04dwihnoHey! I want fat16 support! :)
15:24:29 Quit silencer ("Lost terminal")
15:24:38 Part LinusN
15:30:03Zagorbbl
15:30:04 Part Zagor
16:00
16:00:25 Join AciD [0] (~acid@longchamp44-1-82-67-133-87.fbx.proxad.net)
16:21:50 Join Zagor [242] (~bjst@labb.contactor.se)
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16:40:26***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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18:22:18 Part lImbus
18:31:14 Join bagawk [0] (Lee@ACC5B6EB.ipt.aol.com)
18:31:40bagawkamiconn: have you compiled that uclpack.c with the −−none on linux?
18:33:03bagawkahh i was using 1.03 of uclpack :P
18:33:22bagawki guess it does not have lutil.h in that version
18:34:29 Quit bagawk (Client Quit)
18:40:27***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
18:59:40 Join AciD [0] (~acid@longchamp44-1-82-67-133-87.fbx.proxad.net)
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19:06:06 Quit Lynx_ (" WOW! This IRC Client ownz! HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-")
19:26:13amiconn[IDC]Dragon: Is there a difference (other than the disk capacity) between the Jukebox 6000 and the Studio models?
19:29:54 Nick midk|sleep is now known as midk (~midk@c66-235-14-120.sea2.cablespeed.com)
19:39:14[IDC]Dragonamiconn: not that I know of
19:39:23[IDC]Dragonwhat are you up to?
19:40:02amiconnWas just looking around on ebay (since I'm new to this ;) ) and stumbled upon many archoses...
19:40:16[IDC]Dragonah
19:40:39[IDC]DragonI just got back to my desk to power down
19:40:46[IDC]Dragonleaving for today
19:40:52amiconnFunny enoguh, Archos still seems to sell the Studio, unlike the recorder models
19:41:01amiconn*enough
19:41:09[IDC]Dragonlarger stock?
19:41:37[IDC]DragonI heared they sold a _lot_ of those
19:41:52[IDC]Dragonback those days...
19:42:22[IDC]Dragonprobably because there were no other mp3 players, besides Creative
19:43:05 Join bagawk [0] (Lee@ACC3C853.ipt.aol.com)
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19:43:25[IDC]Dragongotta go now
19:43:28[IDC]Dragonc u
19:43:30amiconnbye
19:43:32 Quit [IDC]Dragon ("CGI:IRC")
20:00
20:07:41 Quit dionoea (Ping timeout: 14400 seconds)
20:12:06 Join grogro [0] (~gromit@ALagny-151-1-22-181.w83-114.abo.wanadoo.fr)
20:17:09midkgotta go... be back later
20:17:12 Quit midk (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
20:19:53 Nick grogro is now known as maikeul` (~gromit@ALagny-151-1-22-181.w83-114.abo.wanadoo.fr)
20:26:00 Join _aLF [0] (~alex@d213-101-247-44.cust.tele2.fr)
20:26:03_aLFhi
20:29:32 Quit maikeul (Client Quit)
20:40:31***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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21:56:22 Join zeekoe [0] (zeekoe@zeekoe.kabel.utwente.nl)
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22:04:06 Join moormaster [0] (~trillian@port-212-202-174-153.dynamic.qsc.de)
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22:23:31 Join Sergej [0] (Sergej@c-6fa271d5.06-5-6c756c11.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)
22:23:57Sergejhi
22:24:06zeekoehi
22:24:17Sergejhow do i make the voices work?
22:24:37zeekoeget the voice font in .rockbox/languages
22:25:05Sergej?
22:25:53Sergejhow do i even start the program?
22:26:01zeekoeuh
22:26:04zeekoewhat program?
22:26:09Sergejrockbox-2.2-player
22:26:12zeekoeyou can get the voice fonts here: http://rockbox.haxx.se/twiki/bin/view/Main/VoiceFiles
22:26:15zeekoeah ok
22:26:19zeekoeyou're a new user?
22:26:24Sergejyes
22:26:29zeekoeok
22:26:33zeekoe2.2 is way old
22:26:39zeekoego to daily builds
22:26:43Sergeji got it from the site
22:26:57zeekoedownload (1) the installer or (2) the player daily build (31/8)
22:27:23zeekoeif you get the player build, you can just unzip it to J: (where J is the rockbox drive number)
22:27:42zeekoeif you get the installer, everything is done automatically, as far as i know
22:28:32zeekoebtw, there's a voice howto: http://rockbox.haxx.se/twiki/bin/view/Main/VoiceHowto
22:29:03Sergejhttp://rockbox.haxx.se/daily.shtml
22:29:14Sergejwhat do i take there?
22:29:29zeekoeget the installer or the player build
22:29:34zeekoehighest on the page is newest
22:31:16Sergejlol
22:31:25Sergejwhat if i don't have a driver "e"
22:31:31Sergej?
22:35:36zeekoewhat drive letter does the jukebox get?
22:36:29Sergejw8
22:40:35***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:00
23:03:47*zeekoe is away: I'm busy
23:04:16 Join bagawk [0] (lee@IC62.library.oregonstate.edu)
23:04:49bagawkamiconn, how did you generate the linkage file for rombox?
23:05:16amiconnbagawk: This was [IDC]Dragon's work
23:05:23bagawkohh
23:06:17amiconnActually, RomBox itself was his idea, but he didn't have the time to dig for a nasty bug, so I did that.
23:16:01bagawki would like to remove the decompression for ucl in the bootloaded, and just use the standard file
23:16:13bagawkbut i am a little scard to do it right now
23:19:07amiconnWhy do you want to do that? If you don't have ucl support, there is no possibility to fit 2 firmware images. That means you don't have an emergency fallback in case the flashing goes wrong...
23:29:30bagawk? but the there is no compression on the rombox ucl file right?
23:31:47amiconnNo, but the first (alternate) image stored in the flash image (the Archos fw selectable with F1-boot) is ucl compressed...
23:31:58bagawkahh
23:31:59bagawkyes
23:32:20bagawkneed to make a mini bugless rockbox ;)
23:33:38amiconnyes...
23:44:51 Join [IDC]Dragon [0] (~d9ff8398@labb.contactor.se)
23:45:08[IDC]DragonHi Lee!
23:45:24amiconn[IDC]Dragon: hi again
23:45:34[IDC]DragonI just completed a very draft version of my programming adapter
23:46:36bagawk[IDC]Dragon, neat :)
23:46:48amiconn[IDC]Dragon: ?
23:47:29[IDC]Dragonamiconn: an adapter to uart-boot the CPU PCB alone
23:47:46[IDC]Dragonwithout more Archos parts around it
23:48:54amiconnah ok. Sorry, for being an ignorant, but I still don't get what this will be good for
23:49:24[IDC]DragonI don't have to take my box apart to flash a CPU board
23:50:21amiconnSo this is intended for "repairing" mis-flashed boards, right? (or boards with an empty flash)
23:50:23 Quit bagawk (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:50:52 Join bagawk [0] (lee@IC62.library.oregonstate.edu)
23:50:57[IDC]Dragonbagawk: what were you guessing your h/w mask was?
23:51:38bagawk[IDC]Dragon, quite sure it was 0x0302
23:51:49[IDC]Dragonyes, correct ;-)
23:52:15[IDC]Dragonthen I woudn't have needed to backup your flash
23:52:50[IDC]Dragonprobably tomorrow I'll solder in the new flash chip
23:53:49bagawkcool :)
23:54:27bagawktime to go home
23:54:36[IDC]Dragonbye
23:54:44bagawksee you Jorg
23:54:57 Quit bagawk (Client Quit)
23:55:11amiconn[IDC]Dragon: Last time I forgot to ask something:
23:55:34[IDC]Dragonyes?
23:56:08amiconnI discovered a bug some days ago - loading a .cfg while the music is playing will stop playback (but not quit wps properly)
23:56:32[IDC]DragonI doubt I canhelp with that...
23:56:45amiconnI digged somewhat for the reason for this, and found that settings_load_config is called,
23:56:59amiconn...which in turn calls settings apply,
23:57:11amiconn...which does call talk_init()
23:57:30amiconn...and that obviously stops playback :(
23:57:50[IDC]Dragonoops
23:58:09[IDC]DragonI woudln't have suspected that to come back on me
23:58:44amiconnAs talk_init() is (iiuc) called because the talk code needs to know that the language may have changed, I can't think of a simple solution

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