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#rockbox log for 2004-09-23

00:00:36amiconnOdd.
00:08:09 Join s0cks [0] (~S0cks@s0cks.user)
00:14:35 Join The_Starchild [0] (~S0cks@s0cks.user)
00:15:57 Quit s0cks (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:16:31 Part The_Starchild ("X-Chat [2.0.10c] Quit.")
00:28:22 Quit AciD (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
00:31:21 Quit Zagor ("Client exiting")
00:46:12 Join bagawk [0] (Lee@bagawk.user)
00:52:01***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:00
01:12:42 Quit bagawk ("umount /dev/brain")
01:21:01plokI've had a H340 for weeks. I have a feeling their release in the US was quite delayed
01:26:15 Part amiconn
02:00
02:14:49 Quit mecraw_ ("Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com)")
02:15:15 Join silencer1 [0] (~silencer@adsl.via.ecp.fr)
02:19:00 Join ashridah [0] (ashridah@dialup-a1-227.Melbourne.netspace.net.au)
02:25:11 Join Chronic007 [0] (~Miranda@24.30.163.142)
02:27:46 Part Chronic007
02:29:40 Join silencer2 [0] (~silencer@zen.via.ecp.fr)
02:30:37 Quit silencer- (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:43:46 Quit silencer1 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
02:43:53 Join silencer- [0] (~silencer@adsl.via.ecp.fr)
02:45:54 Quit silencer2 (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
02:51:41 Quit midk ("just STOP it arspy")
02:52:03***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:56:53 Join midk [0] (~midk@c66-235-14-120.sea2.cablespeed.com)
02:57:19 Quit silencer- (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
03:00
03:01:48 Join silencer- [0] (~silencer@zen.via.ecp.fr)
03:10:56 Part scott666_
03:35:07 Join bagawk [0] (Lee@bagawk.user)
03:37:29bagawkhi midk
03:37:32bagawkare you there?
03:55:34 Join silencer1 [0] (~silencer@zen.via.ecp.fr)
03:55:35 Quit silencer- (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
04:00
04:33:15 Quit bagawk ("umount /dev/brain")
04:52:07***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
05:00
05:22:49 Quit ashridah (Connection timed out)
06:00
06:52:11***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
06:58:57 Quit maikeul ("Client exiting")
07:00
07:02:28 Quit MrMoo (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
07:04:27 Join oxygen77 [0] (~Chris@pauguste-7-82-66-87-78.fbx.proxad.net)
07:06:34 Join gromit`` [0] (~gromit@ALagny-151-1-43-82.w83-114.abo.wanadoo.fr)
07:15:29 Join LinusN [0] (~linus@labb.contactor.se)
07:16:25midkhi LinusN
07:17:24oxygen77bonjour midk;)
07:17:47midket vous, comment t'appelles-tu. merci, madame.
07:17:54oxygen77:)
07:20:51LinusNhi all
07:21:10midkare you impressed with my vast french skills? et vous? tres bien.
07:22:24LinusNimpeccable
07:22:35midkmerci, mademoiselle.
07:22:39 Quit gromit`` ("Client exiting")
07:23:48 Join gromit`` [0] (~gromit@ALagny-151-1-43-82.w83-114.abo.wanadoo.fr)
07:27:44 Quit oxygen77 ("Cho")
07:30:05 Join oxygen77 [0] (~Chris@pauguste-7-82-66-87-78.fbx.proxad.net)
07:33:05 Quit gromit`` ("Client exiting")
07:36:10 Join gromit`` [0] (~gromit@ALagny-151-1-43-82.w83-114.abo.wanadoo.fr)
07:59:51 Join adiamas [0] (~103361D15@host-64-179-64-18.alb.choiceone.net)
08:00
08:00:03adiamaswoohoo.. well that was a bit painful but worked
08:00:18midkhey adiamas.. what's up?
08:06:21adiamasnot much.. stuck in albany ny... it sucks
08:06:26adiamasbut atleast im employeed..
08:06:27adiamasyou?
08:07:04midknot much also, just about to head to bed
08:07:19midk:)
08:08:43 Join kaouete_ [0] (~menfou@dyn-83-152-117-244.ppp.tiscali.fr)
08:09:18 Quit adiamas (Remote closed the connection)
08:09:24 Join amiconn [0] (~jens@pD9E7F0AE.dip.t-dialin.net)
08:09:58 Quit gromit`` ("Client exiting")
08:13:39 Join Bagder_ [0] (~daniel@1-1-5-26a.hud.sth.bostream.se)
08:16:13midkbonne nuit.
08:16:20Bagder_night midk
08:16:33midk:)
08:20:07 Quit kaouete (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
08:20:07 Nick kaouete_ is now known as kaouete (~menfou@dyn-83-152-117-244.ppp.tiscali.fr)
08:21:59LinusNm68k-elf-gcc −−target-help lists 5249 as a target, but doesn't understand the -m5149 option :-(
08:22:41Bagder_-m5249 I take it?
08:23:21LinusNyes
08:23:52LinusNbut the assembler accepts it
08:24:31LinusNit doesn't really matter, the 5407 target would probably work just as well
08:25:10LinusNprovided that you apply my patch to the assembler, of course :-)
08:25:21Bagder_:-)
08:26:31LinusNwell, it doesn't really affect gcc, since gcc doesn't emit EMAC instructions anyway
08:26:56 Join gromit`` [0] (~gromit@ALagny-151-1-43-82.w83-114.abo.wanadoo.fr)
08:28:42dwihnoemacs instructions? :)
08:29:02dwihnometa+v+b+a+s/shift+x, control+xvbp
08:29:14dwihnoemacs humour deluxe :)
08:30:02LinusNi use emacs to fix emac bugs :-)
08:30:12dwihno:)
08:30:50*LinusN is porting the rockbox context switching code to coldfire
08:31:34LinusNi wish gdb had a simulator for coldfire... :-(
08:32:15dwihnoYou're still gathering schematics?
08:42:10 Quit gromit`` ("Client exiting")
08:44:32LinusNdwihno: no, i'm holding that until i get the broken unit
08:44:45dwihnoLinusN: care to share your current status?
08:44:51LinusNstatus:
08:45:02dwihnoGetting gcc to produce native code?
08:45:35LinusN1) I'm working to connect to the target with gdb via the bdm interface
08:46:03LinusNthis has yet not been done, since Real Life has precedence
08:46:15dwihnotrue, true
08:46:16LinusN2) i'm porting the threading code
08:46:43LinusNwhile doing that, i found a bug in the assembler, that i have fixed and sent a patch to the binutils project
08:47:19dwihnocool!
08:47:22LinusNthis means that we must build the cross compiler with the CVS version of binutils
08:52:15***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
08:53:05Bagder_or provide a patch against a specific version
08:53:34dwihnoLinusN: your patch got approved? that's a good thing!
08:56:38 Join gromit`` [0] (~gromit@ALagny-151-1-43-82.w83-114.abo.wanadoo.fr)
09:00
09:00:43 Quit Bagder_ ("Leaving")
09:10:45plokDoes anyone find Hold swithces useful? The iRiver has a hold Switch, but I'm guessing you could double your effective number of buttons by using it to switch between two different modes?
09:16:25 Quit gromit`` (Remote closed the connection)
09:21:21 Join PaulS [0] (~437e19f6@labb.contactor.se)
09:21:50 Join gromit`` [0] (~gromit@ALagny-151-1-43-82.w83-114.abo.wanadoo.fr)
09:21:53PaulSI put my attempt at a GPIO map up on the wiki. Expect mistakes.
09:22:08PaulS(It's in the "Memory Map" section)
09:23:12PaulSI was a little disappointed yesterday that the remote LCD's SPI is done via software "bit-bang". I had a suspicion it was done that way when I did some logic analyzer traces.
09:33:16 Join oxygen77_ [0] (~Chris@pauguste-7-82-66-87-78.fbx.proxad.net)
09:33:42 Quit oxygen77 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
09:40:38 Join amiconn_ [0] (~jens@pD95D135A.dip.t-dialin.net)
09:41:35 Nick oxygen77_ is now known as oxygen77 (~Chris@pauguste-7-82-66-87-78.fbx.proxad.net)
09:43:08 Join Zagor [242] (~bjst@labb.contactor.se)
09:43:28Zagorthe broken ihp120 arrived this morning
09:43:43Bagdernice
09:43:44Zagorwe've just unsoldered the cpu, the flash and the usb board
09:43:51LinusNwe have noe officially slaughtered it :-)
09:43:54Zagor(and the lcd and the button of course)
09:44:05LinusNs/button/joystick/
09:44:08Bagderdoing nice pics too?
09:44:14LinusNwill hitnthe scanner tonight
09:44:23Zagorhitn? ;)
09:45:27LinusNnflba
09:45:29LinusNlsiud
09:45:37LinusNthick fingers, too little coffee
09:45:49Bagderuh coffee...
09:45:55Bagdercoooofffeeee...
09:46:03*Bagder runs away for a moment
09:47:30 Join kurzhaarrocker [0] (~knoppix@p50876BC4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
09:47:56kurzhaarrockerHow do you unsolder bga's? With these hair dryer like heat guns?
09:51:27Zagorvery small hair dryers :)
09:51:53kurzhaarrockerAh, a special air operated smd soldering tool?
09:52:32Zagoryeah
09:53:38kurzhaarrockerDid you check the thing was really broken before? Just in case the seller was a moron that didn't know that you must turn the unit on to operate it.
09:53:51Zagorwe don't want to know :)
09:54:46kurzhaarrocker*sigh of greed*
09:55:13PaulS(Dead IHP) Truly sweet. I hope the GPIO map makes some of the signal tracing faster.
09:57:07LinusNnow we will be able to trace thing really well
09:57:42*kurzhaarrocker hides from LinusN
09:59:06 Quit amiconn (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
09:59:06 Nick amiconn_ is now known as amiconn (~jens@pD95D135A.dip.t-dialin.net)
09:59:38PaulSSo far it doesn't seem like there are any PLDs hiding anywhere, which makes things pretty cut and dry once the datasheets start falling. In the case of the LCD displays (the only major things we don't have definitive docs on) I think it's pretty clear from the code how to access them.
10:00
10:00:41LinusNfull ack
10:34:45 Join MrMoo [0] (~me@194.152.87.150)
10:47:42Zagori think bagder drowned in his coffee
10:48:07Bagderaaaaaah
10:48:09Bagder:-)
10:49:48*kurzhaarrocker puts some Single Malt Whiskey into Bagder's coffee
10:50:11LinusNblasphemy!
10:51:31Bagderhey, I'm driving today
10:52:19***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
10:52:40Bagdergrrrr
10:52:46Bagderdarned FAT
10:52:55Bagderrsync gets upset with mixed case
10:53:49Bagdermy local uppercase dir gets lowercase on the fat fs
10:54:08LinusNthere are vfat options for that
10:54:37Zagorplok: I'm not sure the cpu even knows when the hold switch is activated.
10:55:04Bagderaha
10:55:07Bagdercase=asis
10:55:25Bagder(Default: case=lower.)
10:55:38Bagdersilly
10:55:54Zagoralso, we've had tons of requests for a hold switch that prevents accidental poweron. so people do want a real hold switch.
10:56:09ZagorBagder: that is very silly
10:57:12kurzhaarrockerYes that poweron problem sucks.
10:58:30Bagderno, its called 'shortname=mixed'
10:59:54 Part oxygen77 ("Cho")
11:00
11:00:35Bagderand it works
11:01:33Bagderrsync -avW −−progress −−size-only −−delete /data/mp3/* /mnt/archos/
11:02:34*Bagder runs off
11:10:03 Join Chronic007 [0] (~Miranda@24.30.163.142)
11:10:04 Join ashridah [0] (ashridah@dialup-a1-354.Melbourne.netspace.net.au)
11:12:37LinusNi found the problem with the broken iriver, it was a loose battery connector
11:12:50Zagorhaha
11:12:53LinusNjust kidding
11:13:44dwihnoYou got your broken iriver?
11:13:53LinusNyes, and it's slaughtered
11:13:54kurzhaarrockerAnd you're telling me whiskey in the coffee is blasphemy!
11:14:00LinusNkurzhaarrocker: :-)
11:14:02dwihnoGreat news!
11:21:00Zagorlunch
11:36:02ashridahLinusN: 'slaughtered' as in soaked in water, or in a thousand pieces?
11:36:58kurzhaarrockerprobably soaked in solder.
11:49:01 Part Chronic007
11:55:11 Join Chronic007 [0] (~Miranda@24.30.163.142)
11:58:59PaulSNope. More like slaughtered as in the CPU and flash have been burnt to a crisp and dragged screaming from the PCB. Now LinusN is poking and prodding in the raw empty sockets. Eww!
12:00
12:10:20kurzhaarrockerShould we involve amnesty international?
12:25:36ashridahheh. the ebay report didn't mention the extent of the damage. how did it get fried/
12:25:38ashridah?
12:26:59 Part Chronic007
12:27:30 Quit MrMoo ()
12:30:34 Quit kurzhaarrocker (Remote closed the connection)
12:31:41 Join MooMaunder [0] (~me@194.152.87.150)
12:34:50Zagorashridah: we don't know. there was no visible damage.
12:36:45LinusNand we honestly don't want to know
12:37:20LinusNit feels better if we can think that it was beyond hope
12:37:27LinusN:-)
12:44:18Zagoryikes, a $75 donation. i think we have a competition ;)
12:52:23***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
12:54:40ZagorLinusN: did you get any off events during lunch?
12:58:22LinusNnot a single one :-) :-)
12:58:37Zagorgreat!
12:58:53LinusNi'm perfecting the code, expect a commit soon
13:00
13:01:06 Join Zagor_ [0] (foobar@h254n2fls31o265.telia.com)
13:01:06 Join _Zagor_ [0] (foobar@h254n2fls31o265.telia.com)
13:01:25Zagornice...
13:01:37 Quit _Zagor_ (Remote closed the connection)
13:01:37 Quit Zagor_ (Remote closed the connection)
13:01:54LinusNZagor: split personalities?
13:02:36Zagormy wife restarted the computer at home, which started xchat
13:02:43LinusNaha
13:02:59LinusNxchat in rc.local? :-)
13:03:47Zagornah, gnome restarts the applications you had open if you don't close them when you reboot.
13:08:41 Join [IDC]Dragon [0] (~d90a3255@labb.contactor.se)
13:09:14Zagorhi jörg
13:09:26[IDC]Dragonhi Björn et al
13:09:40[IDC]Dragonmore FAT news?
13:09:55Zagori left you a message in the log last night :)
13:10:09[IDC]Dragonyes, saw that
13:10:15[IDC]Dragonlog works ;-)
13:10:27Zagorno news otherwise
13:10:48[IDC]DragonI think I still will commit the #ifdef code first, so we don't lose it
13:10:58Zagorok
13:11:17[IDC]Dragonthe fuctions you mentioned:
13:11:42[IDC]DragonI have duplicated them to avoid if's in the innermost loop
13:11:48amiconn[IDC]Dragon: Now that I have an external MMC to test, I got some puzzling results. Obviously the internal flash doesn't want to talk to me, while accessing the MMC works fine. I'm able to read the CID register (splashes over the Rockbox logo at boot)
13:12:10[IDC]Dragonnot to degrade performance for the FAT32 variant
13:12:50[IDC]Dragonamiconn: the we'll do the external first :-)
13:13:42[IDC]Dragons/the/then
13:14:12[IDC]DragonZagor: did you thest 1 or 2 sector clusters?
13:14:23[IDC]Dragontest
13:14:37[IDC]Dragonand is it still working on FAT32?
13:15:01Zagoroops, didn't try that :)
13:19:40ashridahfantastic. my tv just melted
13:19:45Zagor!
13:20:05ashridahprobably a dying cap. it'd been shorting out and turning off occasionally for months
13:21:24Sebulba02joy
13:25:22 Join pfavr [0] (~Peter_Fav@213.237.46.232.adsl.ron.worldonline.dk)
13:28:15ashridahah well. trip to the jbhifi to buy a new one tomorrow :(
13:31:14amiconn[IDC]Dragon: I would like to find the problem with the internal flash first.
13:33:42 Join kurzhaarrocker [0] (~knoppix@p50876BC4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
13:35:46*kurzhaarrocker doesn't want an Ondio. According to the daliy build page it's the only device that doesn't rock. :(
13:36:13[IDC]Dragonamiconn: yea, this is surprising. The internal one has a reset, and we have the very datasheet for it.
13:36:44[IDC]Dragonthe situation for the external is much less controlled
13:41:12amiconnYes, and the datasheet I have for *my* external card (256 MB Transcend) is rather short
13:41:35[IDC]Dragon256MB, whow!
13:41:41*[IDC]Dragon got only 64
13:42:12amiconnIf you have different types of external cards, you could try my hacky test version of ata_mmc.c and tell me your results
13:44:31amiconnI got the 256 MB for ~30 € (new, not from eBay)
13:45:04ashridahman. if i had 240V training, i'd probably take this tv apart and see if i can replace the caps myself :(
13:46:52[IDC]Dragonashridah: perhaps you can train yourself to 240V. Start low, then increase it gradually. ;-)
13:48:03LinusNlol
13:56:11ashridahheh
13:56:40ashridahnah. all the electronics i've worked with would only kill you if you decided to poke wires under the skin
13:56:44kurzhaarrockerShould we inlcude that in the battery faq?
13:57:22Zagorashridah: well you're not supposed to replace the caps while your tv is still connected to power :)
13:58:17kurzhaarrockerAnd I thought it was vital to solder in the new caps precharged.
13:58:19 Join R3nTiL [0] (~zorroz@189-250-30-217.kgts.ru)
14:00
14:06:53 Quit pfavr ("ChatZilla 0.9.61 [Mozilla rv:1.7.3/20040922]")
14:06:54[IDC]Dragonamiconn: yet, I can try your version
14:28:42elinenbegood morning from New York!
14:29:00[IDC]Dragonmorning, ha
14:29:05kurzhaarrockerGood afternoon from old europa
14:29:25[IDC]Dragoneverything is a bit older here, even the day
14:30:02elinenbeyeah −− unless you live in my apartment... looks like the place was built in the 12th century
14:30:24kurzhaarrocker:)
14:30:30[IDC]Dragonwhich part of the city?
14:35:00amiconn[IDC]Dragon: Should I eMail it or put it on webspace?
14:36:08elinenbe[IDC]Dragon: in Manhattan
14:36:24elinenbe[IDC]Dragon: I live on the upper east side, but work in midtown.
14:40:09elinenbeit looks as if the iriver port is progressing... sounds nice!
14:40:17[IDC]DragonI once stayed for a weekend in upper west. iirc
14:40:48[IDC]Dragonth only Big Apple time for me
14:41:44[IDC]Dragonvisiting WTC while it had a year to last
14:46:05[IDC]DragonLinusN: what a hefty button rate now!
14:46:18[IDC]Dragonpreparing for arcade action?
14:47:11*kurzhaarrocker would prefer heavy peak meter action over button rate :)
14:47:26Zagorhaha, didn't you adjust the button repeat count linus?
14:47:39 Join maikeul [0] (~gromit@ALagny-151-1-17-53.w82-121.abo.wanadoo.fr)
14:47:57[IDC]Dragonno, he did, I just meant the scanning
14:48:03Zagorah
14:49:00LinusNwe can lower it if it's a problem
14:49:49[IDC]Dragonnice simple implementation, mine was a bit overly complex.
14:49:57LinusNi felt that the repeat acceleration was nicer with the higher rate
14:50:12[IDC]Dragonbut I simplified other ends, in turn
14:50:27[IDC]Dragonmade a table from the ADC limits
14:50:38[IDC]Dragon(I just love tables to save code)
14:52:27***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
14:57:30elinenbedo the button limits correspond to the dirrerent versions of the hardware, or is it just pretty much random?
14:58:31elinenbeLinusN: seriously, what was the condition of the broken iriver?
14:58:35[IDC]Dragonthey depend on the resistors Archos has used
14:59:15[IDC]DragonXiph.org relesed libvorbis 1.1.0
14:59:21[IDC]Dragonreleased
14:59:30LinusNelinenbe: no visible damage at all
14:59:36LinusNit just didn't start
14:59:44LinusNcould be anything
14:59:50LinusNprobably something simple
15:00
15:00:04[IDC]Dragonlike, broken internal PCB traces ;-(
15:00:08elinenbeah nice... have you torn it apart yet?
15:00:20LinusNyes, all IC:s are removed
15:00:27[IDC]Dragonall?
15:00:29LinusNyes
15:00:47[IDC]Dragonso you have a blank PCB now?
15:01:03LinusNthe passive components are still there
15:01:18[IDC]Dragonah, yes, that irrelevant stuff
15:01:22LinusN:-)
15:01:51elinenbe[IDC]Dragon: I understand that, but are the capacitors different in the different versions of the hardware, or is there some sort of standard? I understand capacitors have room for error, but how visible is the error b/w 2 of the same model?
15:01:55kurzhaarrockerIt might have been a good idea to leave any 0-ohm resistors :)
15:05:30 Quit gromit`` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
15:08:58[IDC]Dragonelinenbe: the resistors differ across models, but not within one. they are perhaps 1%
15:08:59 Join pyros [0] (~hof@ppp147-141.lns1.mel2.internode.on.net)
15:10:19pyros:o
15:10:20pyroshi
15:10:22pyrosanyone awake?
15:10:32Bagderawake I am
15:10:47elinenbeyawn!
15:13:28pyrosare you contributors or just followers of the project?
15:14:01Bagderwe are many contributors around
15:14:17pyrosah :)
15:14:45pyrosi've got an iriver h140, was having a talk to one of the misticriver admins about this project
15:14:56pyrossounds awesome, hopefully you guys will be able to fix up the downfalls of the iriver :D
15:15:22Bagderhopefully, yes
15:16:26 Quit R3nTiL ()
15:16:56pyrosi hear rockbox secured a dead iriver as well?
15:17:07Bagderyes
15:17:15Bagderit is even more dead now ;-)
15:17:15kurzhaarrockerLinusN killed it completely now
15:17:35[IDC]DragonLinusN hassome replacement chips now
15:17:43pyrosheh
15:18:17pyrosso with the archos firmware, if you produce a dodgy build you're just able to revert back to a stable build?
15:18:42kurzhaarrockeron the archos yes
15:18:45pyrosmm
15:19:04pyrosdo you think there'll be the ability to do that on the iriver?
15:19:06Bagderit isn't that hard
15:20:01Bagderbesides, I assume we load the firmware from disk during the first time of development anyway
15:20:17kurzhaarrockerIs ist clear wether a partial write of the flash is possible?
15:20:29kurzhaarrockers/clear/known
15:20:47[IDC]Dragondid nobody find a loader-kind of thing in it yet?
15:20:48pyroswith the iriver you can't load from an external source as far as i know - not currently, anyway. a hex file has to be run from the root directory to update from
15:21:27pyroscause i guess that's going to be the biggest hill to overcome - ensuring that you don't end up with a paperweight if a flash goes bad :\
15:21:42BagderI disagree
15:21:51pyrosyeah?
15:21:53Bagderif _that_ is the biggest hill then it all will be easy
15:24:03pyrosbut, suppose the iriver can't be flashed externally and it has to be done via loading a file from the hdd itself..?
15:24:24Bagderstep 1 - we write a firmware load that _works_
15:24:29Bagderloader
15:24:37Bagderit can be debugged and reflashed using BDM
15:24:45Bagdereven if it goes totally boom
15:24:53pyrosBDM ?
15:24:56Bagderyes
15:25:06Bagderso, when that works, it can load a firmware and run it
15:25:16kurzhaarrockerbdm A debugging interface using a serial interface
15:25:17pyrosah, orsm :)
15:26:16Bagderthen it'll just be a matter of replacing the file on disk when it is bad
15:26:20Bagderand reboot
15:28:42pyrosnice
15:29:09LinusNprovided that you still can access the disk via usb to put the new file on it
15:29:20Bagderright
15:29:24*kurzhaarrocker wonders if it might be possible to glue in a bga chip using conductive glue
15:29:25Bagderis that fully sw?
15:29:36LinusNwhat is?
15:29:42Bagderthe usb
15:29:48LinusNisd300
15:29:50Bagderaha
15:29:56Bagderhow neat
15:30:15*Bagder is slightly clueless on iriver
15:30:21LinusNor rather, a cypress isd300 clone
15:30:40 Nick ashridah is now known as Lost-tv (ashridah@dialup-a1-354.Melbourne.netspace.net.au)
15:31:10Bagdercurrent stats: 594 subscribers of the mailing list
15:31:19pyrosmmm...mailing list
15:31:22pyrosmight sign up for that
15:31:34kurzhaarrockerI'll wait until our wizards made the bulldozers part on the iriver before I consider buying one.
15:31:37LinusNwe should at least include a monitor on the serial port like we do in the flash version of rockbox
15:32:13pyroskurzhaarrocker: do you have a player at the moment?
15:32:31kurzhaarrockerno, I am stuck with that archos jukebox recorder crap
15:33:32pyrosmm
15:33:38kurzhaarrockerI'd love it if the audio electronix in it was better.
15:33:43pyrosi bought an iriver based on the fact that it was perceived to be an awesome player
15:33:53pyrosand the player has proved that it is all that :)
15:34:03Hadakawhich iriver?
15:34:06pyrosh140
15:34:15Hadakadoes it charge off USB?
15:34:23LinusNno
15:34:31Hadakaso only H3x0?
15:34:39pyrosnope, but there's a minisync cable that can charge it from usb
15:34:58pyrosthe minisync cable charges + uses usb interface, so you can charge and access the player at the same time :)
15:35:25kurzhaarrockerI'd prefer an external charger anyway. And spare AA batteries of course :)
15:35:27pyrosthey've had some troubles with it and windows xp so far, once they've got a v2 cable out that works with xp i'll buy one. it's only $14u.s.
15:35:39Hadakaah, right
15:36:16kurzhaarrockerTrouble with xp? With an isd300 clone chip? Strange.
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15:36:26Hadakawell, I think I'll be buying the iriver as soon as rockbox works on it ;)
15:36:33pyrossomething to do with irqs, kurzhaarrocker
15:36:42pyrosi'll find the thread on misticriver, i just bumped it today
15:37:14pyroshttp://www.misticriver.net/boards/showpost.php?p=41064&postcount=68
15:37:24pyros^^ boxwave's official announcement about it
15:39:21kurzhaarrockerThat explains a bit: I don't have usb2.0 :)
15:39:44pyrosheh
15:39:53pyrosi have 4usb 2.0 onboard
15:39:59pyrosno, 6
15:40:09pyros2 on the front of my case + 4 on the back
15:40:14pyrosi use...2 ports :)
15:40:32kurzhaarrockerThus you could buy another 4 irivers.
15:40:39pyrosa most excellent idea
15:45:30Bagder"I know i probably shouldn't use this submission for this"
15:45:32Bagdersigh
15:45:49Bagder(quote from a bug tracker entry just filed)
15:45:50pyrosso how long has it taken to get from the first steps of the archos to releasing the fully fledged firmware?
15:46:11Bagderdefine "fully fledged" ?
15:46:26pyrosfunctional..working
15:46:33pyrosfully fledges was a bad choice of words
15:46:55pyrosgood enough to release to the public :)
15:47:25BagderDec 2001 - work started
15:47:31LinusNit took us a few months
15:47:36Bagderend of dec, LCD-code on recorder worked
15:47:48Bagdermay 3rd, we had sound
15:48:05Bagderjune 19th, it worked on recorder too
15:48:35Zagorhttp://rockbox.haxx.se/history.html
15:48:48pyrosah, ta :)
15:49:41kurzhaarrocker<- never believed it would get past the first enthusiasm. The task is just so big.
15:50:21pyroslol
15:50:32pyrosso roughly 5 - 6 months before first release, that's pretty neat
15:50:59Bagderthis time we have more code to re-use
15:51:23Zagoryou mean: this time we have code to reuse :)
15:51:37Bagderthat's a better way to put it, yes ;-)
15:51:38kurzhaarrockerNow I assume it won't be longer for the iriver than a month or two if no serious showstoppers occur.
15:52:16pyrossweet
15:52:24pyros<3 open source stuff
15:54:34Bagder?
15:55:01Zagor<3 is a heart smileu
15:55:30kurzhaarrockerIt looked like dropped ice cream to me.
15:55:35pyroslol
15:55:36*Bagder faints
15:55:41pyrosthat's what i thought when i first saw it :P
15:55:57Bagderc>
15:56:00Bagder;-)
15:56:08Bagderice cream cone
15:56:16*LinusN added a FAQ entry about 20Gb disks having 18Gb free space in the info page
15:56:28Zagorhehe
15:56:37*Bagder salutes LinusN
15:56:48kurzhaarrockerIt wasn't me who frequenlty asked that!
15:57:48*LinusN is drawing schematics
15:58:35kurzhaarrockerI thought you wanted to skip that - just trace the vital connections.
15:59:35Zagorschematics are golden
16:00
16:00:09Zagorhmm, that sounded really weird
16:01:07kurzhaarrockerschematics don't sound weird. They sound wired.
16:01:21LinusN /kick kurzhaarrocker
16:01:24Bagderthat hurt!
16:01:54*LinusN wonders what kurzhaarrocker is smoking
16:02:21kurzhaarrockerHey, it's not me who brethes the soldering fumes!
16:02:27LinusN:-)
16:03:05dwihnoSläppa alla förbehåll å kraaav!
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16:11:41LinusNtime to go
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16:32:17amiconn[IDC]Dragon: http://arnold-j.bei.t-online.de/Rockbox/ata_mmc.c
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16:35:48[IDC]Dragonamiconn: check it in!
16:36:26[IDC]Dragonyou should change: Copyright (C) 2002 by Alan Korr
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16:44:09[IDC]Dragonamiconn: this already is a lot of code, respect
16:46:51[IDC]Dragonthe original ata code somehow publishes the disk info, we could place the CID content there
16:48:52Zagoryes, ata_get_identify
16:50:11[IDC]Dragonis that ASCII?
16:50:36Zagorno, it's the identify sector returned by the IDENTIFY ata command
16:52:31***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
16:54:58[IDC]Dragonhmm, so emulate that format
16:57:21Zagori'm not sure that's worthwile. it will be a lot of code.
16:57:33Zagormaybe just add an ata_get_cid
17:00
17:00:17amiconnZagor: mmc_get_cid then. I try to stay compatible with existing ata functions, but new functions should be prefixed with the "proper" type (imho)
17:02:27Zagoryes
17:02:48[IDC]Dragonbut then it's not interchangeable?
17:03:23amiconnIt isn't interchangeable anyway, since the CID is MMC specific
17:03:29Zagoremulating the identify sector is going to take hundreds of lines of code. it's not worth it.
17:03:34[IDC]Dragonusing this, I mean
17:04:00[IDC]Dragonbut then we need th adjust the debug screen
17:04:05Zagoryes
17:04:08[IDC]Dragons/th/to
17:04:31Zagori guess spinup time isn't really applicable either ;)
17:04:33[IDC]DragonI'd try to make this minimum invasive
17:05:17Zagorthat's a good ambition, but the debug screen is outside the "rules". there is too much hardware-specific code in there to make it general.
17:06:12[IDC]Dragonshoudn't be that much code to mocj up an identify sector with what we have, zero the rest
17:06:28[IDC]Dragons/mocj/mock
17:07:02[IDC]Dragonbut I see you point
17:07:07Zagorok. i don't know how the cid looks so I can't say. if you think it's a good idea, go ahead.
17:07:11amiconnI'll replace the "show disk info" with "show MMC info" (#ifdefed)
17:08:44amiconnA lot of hings that are in the ata identify sector aren't relevant for mmc (like max_multiple_sectors, pio mode etc.). Then there are relevant parameters for MMC that don't exist for ata (e.g. maximum clock frequency)
17:09:12[IDC]DragonOK, new info is better
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18:52:35***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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19:37:07[IDC]Dragonamiconn: do you read?
19:39:16[IDC]Dragonanyway, I tried your driver, it doesn't say much
19:41:04[IDC]Dragonjust CMD0|1 resp:
19:41:43[IDC]Dragonboth 01 (101) for external MMC,
19:42:27[IDC]Dragonfor internal, same for cmd0 first, then changes to 05 (101) for cmd1
19:42:38[IDC]Dragonno fancy test output
20:00
20:19:18amiconnHmm, strange. It should say (and does for me with external card) 0x01 (1) for cmd0, 0x00 (some..) for cmd1, then a box telling some info from the CID. However, the latter can only work if the responses were boh correct.
20:21:04amiconnWhat all this means: after power up/reset/mmc mode we first have to send cmdp (go idle state) with CS asserted to tell the card to go into spi mode. The card response must have set bit 0 (only), meaning idle state
20:23:32amiconnNext thing is to wake up the card with cmd1. The card will respond with 0x00 when it is ready, which may take some time. Until it is ready, the card answer will be 0x01 (idle), so the command has to be repeated
20:24:26amiconnThe number in () tells how many repetitions were done until the correct answer was received, 101 is the timeout.
20:25:57amiconnI get the same responses as you for internal flash, and sometimes 0xFF for both commands, meaning it doesn't answer at all
20:26:28elinenbein that timeline above I think you forgot that in May 2002 Sokoban was written for the recorder −− before it even had sound!
20:27:37amiconnThe answer 0x05 is the most puzzling here: bit 2 set means "illegal command". I wonder what illegal thing I'm doing to it...
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20:33:45[IDC]Dragonhmm
20:34:00*[IDC]Dragon is watching a movie now
20:38:45amiconnIt seems I have to decipher some more asm code...
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20:52:37***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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21:56:04elinenbeamiconn: what does the asm code do?
21:56:55amiconnIt's the disassembler listing of the archos fw for Ondio (rather, the part that I have identified to be the mmc driver)
22:00
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22:24:41amiconnre Jörg
22:24:46[IDC]Dragonback for a sec
22:26:02[IDC]Dragonare you on the MMC now?
22:26:29*[IDC]Dragon feels he's no help, not having read the datasheets
22:27:12amiconnJust googled a bit; found the crc algorithms. After doing some tests with that, I'll compare datasheets, port values and (probably) some multimeter measurements
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22:27:33[IDC]Dragonmultimeter this time?
22:27:50amiconnYes, checking logical levels
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22:28:10[IDC]DragonI use the scope for that, too
22:28:43amiconnYes, I can do that too (probably easier, since the scopy is already near the Ondio)
22:28:50amiconn*scope
22:28:55amiconnToo bad I don't have a logic analyzer
22:29:01[IDC]Dragonnice nickname :-)
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22:29:23 Nick scopy is now known as amiconn (~jens@pD95D135A.dip.t-dialin.net)
22:29:43[IDC]DragonI have a storage scope, too, but that's hard to operate
22:30:48amiconnI only have a simple analog scope, specced up to 5 MHz only. Although it manages to show the 12 MHz bridge clock
22:31:16[IDC]Dragon5 MHz is the 3 dB corner, no sharp limit
22:31:22amiconnyup
22:31:39*[IDC]Dragon got a whoppy 60 MHz scope
22:31:52[IDC]Dragon</brag mode>
22:32:54[IDC]Dragonbought if with my first money
22:41:13amiconnHmm, CRC-7 algorithm works correctly
22:43:44 Quit maikeul ("Client exiting")
22:47:01[IDC]DragonI get a different response now: FF both, for internal
22:49:15[IDC]Dragonexternal is 01 (1) and 01 (101)
22:50:08amiconnYou can check 3 times per boot: 1st at boot, 2nd at usb insertion, and 3rd at usb removal. After that rockbox panics
22:50:29[IDC]Dragonah
22:50:48[IDC]Dragonthe shutdown is not working, I wonder why
22:51:02[IDC]Dragonalways have to hold like >10sec
22:51:20amiconnAt (1), most of the time I get FF too from internal flash. At (2) and (3) I usually get 01 (1) and 05 (101) from internal
22:51:41[IDC]Dragonhow can I help?
22:52:06[IDC]Dragongot some time now, if I don't fall asleep
22:52:08amiconnShutdown works for me, it's just that you have to release the button after holding it for more than 2..3 secs
22:52:41***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:53:03amiconnAs long as you hold the button, the Ondio will still be powered
22:55:00amiconnIt's too bad the flash is a bga
22:55:29[IDC]Dragonare you in doubt about the connections?
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22:55:50amiconnI wonder if there might be inverters...
22:56:08[IDC]Dragonwhere?
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22:56:37[IDC]Dragonhey all 'ya Zagors
22:56:56amiconn[IDC]Dragon: For the chip select(s), reset signal...
22:57:21Zagor:)
22:57:24[IDC]Dragonwhere should those hide?
22:58:58[IDC]Dragondoes the code read like it should be inverted?
22:59:35amiconnDunno yet, just wild guessing from the odd behaviour.
22:59:53amiconnPerhaps I should check port values by read-back
23:00
23:00:07amiconn..*before* initializing anything
23:00:27amiconnThe ROM firmware accesses the internal flash, so it has to use the SCI
23:00:43[IDC]Dragonmight be interesting
23:01:03[IDC]Dragonbut we can as well measure the Archos firmware "at work"
23:01:13amiconnOf course we can't read the lcd port values, for obvious reasons
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23:02:11amiconn[IDC]Dragon: I found one reason why the archos fw is smaller than rockbox - it does things in a more centralized and hence more compact way
23:02:26amiconnFor instance, there is a global port init
23:02:57[IDC]Dragonmost of all, it's smaller for far less features
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23:03:54amiconnFrom that, I have an interesting finding for you (Ondio FMR). Are you sure that PB0 is FM readback and PB4 is FM write?
23:04:17[IDC]Dragonno, it could be the opposite
23:04:38amiconnI'm asking because PB0 is initialized as GP out (of course this might be due to the lcd data), but PB4 is initialized as GP in...
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23:05:04[IDC]Dragoncan check in more detail, still have the tuner daughterboard off
23:05:22amiconnDoes the Ondio work without the tuner board?
23:05:29[IDC]Dragonyes
23:10:48[IDC]DragonZagor: could you perhapsrun the tests for FAT32?
23:11:41Zagorsure
23:17:31amiconn[IDC]Dragon: CRC-16 does work now too. The MMC CRC-16 does *not* use the CCITT init (0xffff), but uses 0 instead. So in case we want to use CRC protection, I'm prepared...
23:18:22[IDC]Dragonbut a different polynomial, right?
23:18:42Zagor== Test completed successfully ==
23:18:53amiconnYes, it's a different one from the CRC routine we already have.
23:19:02[IDC]Dragonphew, looks like I didn't break it
23:19:32amiconnTime for some real world tests... too bad MMC doesn't work yet :(
23:20:00[IDC]Dragonamiconn: repeating myself, I don't think we need CRC protection for this close transfer
23:20:14[IDC]Dragonwe're not doing int on ata, either
23:20:47[IDC]Dragonbutit's always goo to know how things work :-)
23:22:07amiconnYes I know, but (1) it may help finding mistakes in the transfer routines for debugging and (2) I just wanted to see if I'm able to get *something* working at all :(
23:27:55[IDC]DragonZagor: how's FAT16 with1 or 2 sectors/cluster?
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23:31:07Zagor[IDC]Dragon: it works fine
23:31:10[IDC]DragonLinusN seems undecided about his presence
23:31:24LinusNsetting up my new xchat installation
23:31:32[IDC]Dragongreat, thanks for testing!
23:35:59LinusNgotta get some sleep, nite folx
23:36:06 Part LinusN
23:51:38 Quit methangas (" Try HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-")
23:51:46amiconn[IDC]Dragon: Checked the port settings & values @ rockbox start (very first thing in init() ) - nothing suspicious so far

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