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#rockbox log for 2004-10-17

00:28:24 Quit methangas (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- s0 d4Mn l33t |t'z 5c4rY!")
00:58:01***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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01:02:33 Quit _aLF ("Leaving")
01:03:55 Join kurzhaarrocker [0] (~none@c-134-120-120.d.dial.de.ignite.net)
01:04:41kurzhaarrockerIs there somebody who knows wether it is evil to call talk_buffer_steal more than once?
01:07:53 Join PDO [0] (~PDO@dialup-4.242.198.138.Dial1.Seattle1.Level3.net)
01:08:23amiconnkurzhaarrocker: It shouldn't do any harm
01:08:45kurzhaarrocker\o/ Thats what I wanted to hear! :)
01:09:47amiconnBtw, (completely OT): Someone asked for timed recording... Do I remember correctly that you once wanted to implement that?
01:10:27kurzhaarrockertriggered recording. That's what I'm working on momentarily.
01:10:56kurzhaarrockerTimed recording my come somewhen else.
01:11:49amiconnAh, that was triggered recording. Anyway, timed recording might be useful for some people too. On V2/FM (and V1 with alarm mod) it could even wake up the box at the correct time....
01:12:44PDOhow do I download plugings? like: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/PluginCalculator
01:12:47kurzhaarrockerYes, very interesting for recording radio shows etc. But that's not what I'm after -> other things have higher priorities on my wish list.
01:13:25kurzhaarrockerPDO isnt the calculater included in the normal daily build?
01:13:45PDOoh
01:13:47amiconnkurzhaarrocker: Am I right that the splitedit plugin was made by you?
01:14:13kurzhaarrockeryes. Linus committed it although I insisted that it isn't finished yet :)
01:14:14PDOhow safe is the daily build?
01:15:01PDOI'm recording sermans for my church and don't want any problems that way...
01:15:14kurzhaarrockerBy definition it is not safe. But my experience is that rockbox is quite high quality -> I never had any serious trouble like data loss or something.
01:15:24PDOok
01:15:47kurzhaarrockerThere's a recording but in the current builds that I believe hasn't been squished yet.
01:16:05kurzhaarrockerFor serious recording I'd recommend the latest official release.
01:16:31amiconnkurzhaarrocker: I'm currently adapting the plugins for Ondio, one after another. I hope the spliteditor doesn't use too many buttons...
01:16:59kurzhaarrockerIt uses all the buttons I could find - even combos :)
01:18:11amiconnOoops, that's bad :( There are significantly less buttons on Ondio, but the spliteditor might be useful... especially for Ondio FMR
01:19:28kurzhaarrockerYes. But there are features that are necessary and others that aren't. It might be necessary to adopt the ui. :(
01:19:57 Quit scott666_ ("i'll be back...eventually...")
01:20:14kurzhaarrockereg the spliteditor would still be useful without halfspeed playback and db<->linear scale toggle...
01:20:46amiconnThose plugins are the hard ones... The text viewer also uses too many button combos to port the full range to Ondio... I had to make decisions
01:21:30 Quit AciD (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
01:22:21amiconnImho a plugin should not use too many buttons, especially when there are no hints on the screen, because all those button (combos) are not easy to remember. If there are many options to set, it should use a menu instead
01:22:39amiconnThe text viewer even uses double-shift combos on the player!
01:23:59*kurzhaarrocker searches for an ondio picture in order to count its buttons
01:25:20amiconnThere are pics on the rockbox site... Ondio has 6 buttons in total:
01:25:39kurzhaarrockerIs the 6th on a side of the toy?
01:25:52amiconnLeft/Right/Up/Down, Menu, and OnOff. OnOff is at the top
01:26:21kurzhaarrockerok, that's why I dont see it on the photo :)
01:27:42kurzhaarrockerAre key combos with the menu button possible?
01:27:45amiconnOn Ondio, a number of functions in rockbox (and the plugins already adapted) distinguish between short or long press of buttons
01:28:07amiconnMenu-xx combos are possible.
01:29:20amiconn...but they are not easy to trigger, because of the small distance between the buttons
01:29:50kurzhaarrockerOne thumb == all buttons? :)
01:30:17amiconnSomething like that, yes.
01:30:18kurzhaarrockerI think it should be possible to make an ergonomic split editor plugin using a few menu + XX combos.
01:32:10amiconnThere are several examples for the short/long press selection in rockbox. For instance, a short press of Menu toggles wps<->browser (or brings up Resume?), while a long press brings up the menu.
01:34:29amiconnLook at http://www.archos.com/products/prw_500324.html if you wanna see the 6th button
01:35:10kurzhaarrockerWasn't there a movie about that button? "The 6th sense"? :)
01:35:21amiconnlol
01:36:27kurzhaarrockerCan that button be abused for other things than on/off?
01:37:35amiconnYes, but only for short presses of course, like on the recorders. For plugins I use it the same way, for leaving
01:37:54kurzhaarrockerok
01:46:37 Quit PDO ("Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com)")
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02:12:36 Join thedude [0] (thedude@pm471-19.dialip.mich.net)
02:12:47thedude#fld
02:12:57thedudejoin #fld
02:14:09thedudehello
02:19:59 Nick thedude is now known as thedude02 (thedude@pm471-19.dialip.mich.net)
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02:52:58 Join ashridah [0] (ashridah@220.253.119.184)
02:53:59 Join thedude02 [0] (thedude02@pm471-19.dialip.mich.net)
02:54:11thedude02Hello.
02:54:16 Part amiconn
02:54:34thedude02Is anyone here?
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03:11:47 Quit kurzhaarrocker (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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04:51:30 Quit ashridah ("ircII EPIC4-2.0 -- Are we there yet?")
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08:35:57 Quit _Lucretia (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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09:12:59 Quit scott666_ ("i'll be back...eventually...")
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10:05:08 Join [IDC]Dragon [0] (~idc-drago@pD9FF8261.dip.t-dialin.net)
10:44:06 Join kurzhaarrocker [0] (~none@c-134-124-187.d.dial.de.ignite.net)
10:44:15kurzhaarrockermoin
10:44:25[IDC]Dragonhi there
10:44:55kurzhaarrockerThere seem to have been major concept changes concerning settings.c.
10:45:14[IDC]Dragonsome time ago, yes
10:45:32[IDC]DragonI made a table for it, saved a lot of memory
10:47:34kurzhaarrockerIt seems I still need an array with option names for menues and a comma seperated string with the same values for the config files. Is that right or am I missing something?
10:48:08[IDC]Dragoncorrect
10:48:27[IDC]Dragonbut it can be defined as const
10:48:46kurzhaarrockerok, thanks. I just wondered wether I'm doing something wrong.
10:58:12***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
10:59:55 Join amiconn [0] (~jens@pD9E7EAAC.dip.t-dialin.net)
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11:00:10 Quit kurzhaarrocker (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
11:00:19 Join kurzhaarrocker [0] (~none@c-134-124-187.d.dial.de.ignite.net)
11:00:23amiconnhi
11:00:30kurzhaarrockerhi amiconn
11:00:31[IDC]Dragonmoin
11:01:03kurzhaarrockeryou're german too, amiconn, aren't you?
11:01:26amiconnyup
11:01:31[IDC]Dragonyes, we rule this channel ;-)
11:01:38[IDC]Dragonatm
11:01:47amiconn[IDC]Dragon: Did you see the next Ondio user post?
11:01:54[IDC]Dragonno
11:01:58*[IDC]Dragon looks
11:03:48[IDC]Dragonok, he got my model
11:04:19kurzhaarrockerAnother thing about settings I'd like to verify
11:04:20kurzhaarrockerI want to store negative values [-96 .. 0] in the config files. Would a line like this do?:
11:04:20kurzhaarrocker{8 | SIGNED, S_O(rec_start_thres), -35, "trigger start threshold", NULL}
11:05:04[IDC]Dragonlooks good to me
11:05:14[IDC]Dragonnegative is supported
11:05:15kurzhaarrocker(I ask because of the | SIGNED thing)
11:05:29kurzhaarrocker:)
11:06:24kurzhaarrockerIt took me a while to understand that the S_O makro generates 2 parameters ;)
11:07:07[IDC]Dragona bit nasty trick, I admit
11:07:21[IDC]Dragonbut assures consistency
11:08:24kurzhaarrockerNow that I understand it I think it is convenient.
11:09:47kurzhaarrockerBagder_, are you here?
11:11:02amiconn[IDC]Dragon: Concerning the Ondio models - I wonder if we will find at least one with mask bit2 == 0
11:12:06[IDC]Dragonthe clock gate polarity?
11:12:26[IDC]Dragonyes,that would be interesting/annoying
11:16:16[IDC]Dragonwe have no sscanf(), grr
11:17:32amiconnThere is atoi()
11:22:39 Join AciD [0] (~acid@longchamp44-1-82-67-133-87.fbx.proxad.net)
11:22:43 Quit ze (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
11:23:29amiconn[IDC]Dragon: Yesterday I had a corrupt file system on my 256 MB card (cross linked files). I don't know whether it was caused by rockbox though
11:24:17[IDC]Dragonwhat should I say?
11:24:29[IDC]DragonI don't know either :-/
11:24:39kurzhaarrockerDoes recording on the ondio already work?
11:24:40[IDC]Dragonbut it''s uncomforting
11:24:51[IDC]Dragonkurzhaarrocker: yes
11:25:19[IDC]DragonI'm currently working on the file name generation "algorithm"
11:25:29kurzhaarrockercool. Does it feature a hardware peakmeter like the jukeboxes?
11:25:50[IDC]Dragonright now, it overwrites one fixed filename again and again, because it has no RTC
11:27:11amiconnkurzhaarrocker: The MAS in the Ondio FMR is the same, so yes.
11:28:00amiconnThe Ondio FMR has got a different MAS, which is decode-only, but otherwise does have the same features, including the peakmeter readout
11:28:25amiconnArgh, I mean Ondio SP in the latter statement
11:33:15kurzhaarrockerSo it's easy with this hw. I just wonder how we will solve peak meter stuff with other hardware like the irivers. Smells like a lot of rewrite.
11:33:32amiconn[IDC]Dragon: We should add a third plugin model for the Ondio plugins. While the api itself is the same (=> no crashes expected), the button handling is usually very different
11:34:46[IDC]Dragon"third plugin model"?
11:35:36amiconnCurrently there are 2 plugin models (defined in plugin.h): player and recorder, because of the different api struct
11:36:25[IDC]Dragonwhy should the ondio be no recorder? the SP, you mean?
11:36:43amiconnNo, I mean all Ondios, because of the different keypad.
11:36:52[IDC]Dragonthe buttons can be handled with #if
11:38:20amiconnYes of course, but then the binaries are different. That means, if you start a plugin compiled for recorder on the Ondio, most likely you cannot handle it.
11:38:50[IDC]Dragonthe flash plugins are also different
11:38:57kurzhaarrockerI doubt that we want to swap the binary plugins over the models
11:39:14[IDC]Dragonto handle this at runtime sounds like like overkill to me
11:40:40amiconnIt would not reqire any additional code to do that, only some changed #defines
11:40:56kurzhaarrockerand probably the plugins must be compiled platform specific anyway as we can't even rely on the cpu model.
11:41:22amiconnThe flash plugins check themselves iirc
11:42:30[IDC]Dragonthey're not very good at it
11:42:54[IDC]DragonI use the ROM version for that, but it has ambiguities
11:43:24amiconnAnd: At least Christi's windows installer should know about these issues. Currently it include every plugin once per model, except the flash plugins
11:43:36[IDC]Dragonfor the already flashed models, I introduced a "model byte" in the flash
11:44:19[IDC]DragonI think the installer checks where it can do so, by binarycomparing the plugins across models
11:47:31amiconnGotta go
11:47:39kurzhaarrockerhave fun, amiconn
11:47:43[IDC]Dragonc u
11:47:59 Part amiconn
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12:04:47[IDC]DragonI'm off, too
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18:35:07dissonationi should have thought and came here first, but i bought a few jukeboxes and have a battery to sell at http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=572521854 keep up the great work with the development
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