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#rockbox log for 2004-10-19

00:18:50scott666iRiverMan: its possible; what do you want to know?
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03:03:48bagawkhallo hallo :) (for you Germans...)
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06:39:00 Join Dujodu [0] (APDesign@CPE-24-167-199-72.wi.rr.com)
06:41:52Dujodujust out of curiosity... what type of programming is required for the iRiver rockbox?
06:41:58Dujoduis it C?
06:59:11***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
07:00
07:12:59 Join LinusN [0] (~linus@labb.contactor.se)
07:13:26LinusNDujodu: yes, it is mostly C
07:13:29 Join Kurso [0] (~cb339051@labb.contactor.se)
07:21:48 Join AciD [0] (~gni@longchamp44-1-82-67-133-87.fbx.proxad.net)
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07:57:31 Join [IDC]Dragon [0] (~idc-drago@pD9FF8E99.dip.t-dialin.net)
07:59:43 Quit einhirn ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
08:00
08:01:25[IDC]Dragonthis philips tuner gives me a hard time to find out if tuned
08:02:51LinusNoh
08:04:07Dujoduare you guys busy right now?
08:05:01[IDC]DragonI am
08:05:13Dujoduheh, alright
08:05:29DujoduI just had some stupid questions that are probably too complex to answer with one liners
08:05:43LinusNDujodu: shoot
08:06:01LinusN[IDC]Dragon: IF measurement doesn't work?
08:06:16DujoduI was just kind of curious as to the process of creating the firmware for something like the iRiver
08:06:32Dujoduhow do you test it? do you have to compile and load it onto the player for each change?
08:07:16LinusNDujodu: the major parts of the code can be tested on the pc
08:07:23Dujoducool
08:07:31LinusNfor instance, the mp3 decoder is pure C
08:08:03LinusNand we have a simulator that can simulate the LCD, buttons etc
08:08:07Dujoduah
08:08:14LinusNso we an write the GUI code on the pc
08:08:38LinusNhowever, all drivers must of course be tested on the device itself
08:09:07DujoduI find it amazing that you guys can create a new firmware for something like that
08:09:20DujoduI wouldn't even know where to begin something like that
08:09:26LinusNwell, it isn't trivial, but it's damn fun
08:09:32Dujodulol, I can imagine
08:10:03LinusNone really hard part is the reverse engineering
08:10:25LinusNsince we have no documentation on how the hardware is designed
08:10:34Dujoduthe thing I don't understand is how you can interface with the hardware
08:10:46Dujoduhow do you know what code will actually trigger stuff for the hardware?
08:10:49LinusNthat's where the broken iriver was of real help
08:11:15LinusNwe stripped it into pieces to find out how the hardware was connected, and drew schematics
08:11:49Dujoduare there standards for controlling hardware like that or something?
08:12:00LinusNsort of
08:12:26LinusNthe CPU is well documented, so many things are self-evident
08:12:46Dujodubecause the CPU is just a part that iriver purchased from some supplier?
08:12:50Dujoduit isn't unique to the iriver?
08:12:53LinusNall parts are
08:13:08LinusNthat's why we chose to work on the iriver
08:13:19LinusNall parts are off-the-shelf chips
08:13:23Dujoduah
08:13:44Dujoduthat's awesome
08:14:14Dujoduwhat, besides c, would you have to know to take on a project like this?
08:14:15LinusNthat's why the iPod or Karma isn't attractive to us
08:14:34LinusNyou need lots of knowledge about hardware
08:15:00LinusNand quite some experience of low-level asm/c programming
08:15:24DujoduI have none of those requirements, but it's interesting as hell.. lol
08:15:58LinusNyou can learn a lot just by hanging around here, and reading the stuff on the rockbox site
08:16:27DujoduI just purchased an iRiver, so I'll probably be doing that
08:16:33LinusN140?
08:16:37Dujoduyeah
08:16:45Dujoduactually I'm about to purchase one
08:16:48LinusNah
08:16:49Dujoduany minute now
08:16:50Dujodulol
08:17:04DujoduI've been researching players for like 2 weeks, finally decided on the h140
08:17:12Dujodusince I don't really need the features of the h340
08:18:41Dujoduhow long have you guys been working on the rockbox for the iriver?
08:19:15LinusNhmmm
08:20:32LinusNyou could say that we initiated the project in early september
08:20:57LinusNbut other people have done other work long before that
08:21:01Dujoduah
08:21:12Dujodudo most of you have some sort of degree in computer science, or are you self taught?
08:21:20LinusNi'm self taught
08:21:47LinusNin fact, many of us are self taught
08:21:51 Join einhirn [0] (Miranda@bsod.rz.tu-clausthal.de)
08:21:58Dujoducool, you must learn a hell of a lot from doing this type of stuff
08:22:04LinusNabsolutely
08:23:10 Join adiamas [0] (~chatzilla@host-64-179-64-18.alb.choiceone.net)
08:23:22Dujodualright, I gotta get some sleep
08:23:30Dujoduthanks for the chat
08:23:36DujoduI'm sure I'll return
08:23:42Dujoduif not just to read what you guys talk about
08:23:47LinusNcu
08:23:53Dujodusee ya
08:23:58 Part Dujodu
08:24:16adiamashey linus... long time ..
08:24:22LinusNyo man
08:24:48adiamashows life these days?
08:24:57LinusNit sucks as usual :-)
08:25:25adiamaslol...
08:25:34adiamas'any day above ground is a good one'
08:25:48adiamasim playing with this chatzilla extension for firefox..
08:25:51adiamasthis thing kicks butt
08:26:32LinusNnice, i have never tried it
08:27:02adiamashmm... i wasn't asked to identify myself when i signed on...
08:27:08adiamasi wonder if my nick expired
08:27:26adiamasyup.. not registered
08:29:19adiamaslol...
08:29:24adiamasinfo on the channel.. lol
08:29:43adiamasadi|home last seen 1year 3 weeks 6 days ago
08:30:07 Nick adiamas is now known as adi|home (~chatzilla@host-64-179-64-18.alb.choiceone.net)
08:32:37Mode"#rockbox +o adi|home " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
08:33:32Mode"#rockbox -o adi|home " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
08:34:43adi|homethe rockbox email address.. is that now rockbox@rockbox.org?
08:35:46 Nick adi|home is now known as adiamas (~chatzilla@host-64-179-64-18.alb.choiceone.net)
08:37:12LinusN"the email address"?
08:37:21LinusNyou mean the mailing list?
08:46:50 Quit adiamas ("Chatzilla 0.9.65 [Mozilla rv:1.7.3/20040913]")
08:49:48 Join Zagor [242] (~bjst@labb.contactor.se)
08:49:52 Join lImbus [0] (lImbus@91.185-200-80.adsl.skynet.be)
08:49:58lImbushi all
08:50:24[IDC]Dragon'morning
08:51:17lImbussomebody here able to tell me why I'm not able to compile (/ld) my simbuild anymore, so I can get back in some rockbox-develpment ?
08:51:29lImbusLD /home/guest/simbuild/rockboxui.exe => gives a few pages of errors
08:51:32 Join adiamas [0] (~chatzilla@host-64-179-64-18.alb.choiceone.net)
08:51:47lImbuslike /home/guest/simbuild/tree.o(.text+0xf8): In function `check_rockboxdir':
08:52:13lImbushome/guest/uisimulator/win32/../../apps/tree.c:125: undefined reference to `_sim_opendir'
08:53:34lImbus[IDC]Dragon: I ordered an ondio fm rec, waiting for it to arrive. if you're looking for somebody to tryout something, you can always ask me.
08:55:32[IDC]Dragonok, let's see wgich one you get. please report the h/w mask
08:56:07lImbusyup, that was my intend
08:57:00LinusNlImbus: reconfigure the simulator
08:57:23lImbusalready done. I created a new destination directory a few times now
08:57:25 Join oxygen77 [0] (~Chris@pauguste-7-82-66-87-78.fbx.proxad.net)
08:58:39LinusNlImbus: and you have the latest cvs version?
08:59:14***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
08:59:20lImbussure. that's what I completely dont understand. daily build says it's ok. but it's not ON windows/cygwin, isn't it ?
09:00
09:00:41LinusNi just compiled the latest cvs on my cygwin installation, worked fine
09:01:03lImbusld is the linker, right ?
09:01:06LinusNyes
09:01:12 Quit adiamas ("Chatzilla 0.9.65 [Mozilla rv:1.7.3/20040913]")
09:01:37lImbusI'll send you all the output in a pm if you don't mind
09:01:46LinusNit won't help me
09:01:56LinusNwhat are your changes to the source?
09:02:08lImbusso it doesn't for me :-/
09:02:41lImbusmy changes ? very few. the normal recorder build I just flashed to my device works, and I certainly didn't change anything on the sim
09:03:47LinusNwhen did it stop working?
09:04:35lImbuscvs tells me I didn't change any file (that came from cvs) beneath /uisimulator, except from a io.c which seems to be obsolete in the meantime, I already deleted (and deleted io.d)
09:05:13lImbusit stopped working a few weeks ago, when I had absolutely no time to look at it. no I notice it was not due to any of the things I can imaginge.
09:05:29lImbuss/. no/. now
09:06:30lImbusI am taking an ooooold tarball, let's see
09:06:55[IDC]DragonPhilips tunes better now
09:07:25[IDC]DragonLinusN: is it intended to leave the tuner running when exiting the radio screen?
09:09:41 Quit einhirn (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
09:11:38lImbusLinusN: tarball of 19-09 at least ld's and builds the grayscale lib afterwards. it fails on "ranlib" (not found) later, but I don't get that far with my current cvs
09:11:38LinusN[IDC]Dragon: yes and no
09:12:14LinusNit is on if you leave with ON, and off if you leave with OFF
09:12:38LinusNlImbus: are you using bc:s lean-and-mean cygwin installation?
09:12:44[IDC]Dragonah
09:12:52lImbusLinusN: yup
09:13:13LinusNlImbus: maybe ranlib isn't included?
09:13:42lImbusmaybe. but this breaks the old build, not the current ones.
09:13:52LinusNlImbus: i have no idea why it doesn't work for you
09:14:00LinusNit works for me
09:14:54LinusNso there must be something that differs your installation from mine
09:15:32lImbusi got definitely no ranlib
09:17:13 Join einhirn [0] (Miranda@bsod.rz.tu-clausthal.de)
09:18:01LinusNit should still be able to link rockboxui.exe
09:18:17lImbusthat's what confuses me.
09:18:18 Quit einhirn (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
09:18:57lImbusranlib is mentioned in the makefile of 19-09 and of today.
09:22:21 Join einhirn [0] (Miranda@bsod.rz.tu-clausthal.de)
09:31:15lImbusLinusN, if you use bc's cygwin, how did you get ranlib into it ? which cygwin-pack is it in ? I am just looking for it.
09:32:36 Join pillo [0] (~trillian@navlab03.dei.unipd.it)
09:38:56LinusNlImbus: i don't use bc:s cygwin package
09:39:21LinusNi use the real thing
09:39:41lImbus:)
09:41:24lImbusbtw, my attempt ti update binutils failed.
09:41:32lImbuss/ti/to
09:42:59lImbusbut ranlib is installed and the ooooold build builds/links/works.
09:45:04[IDC]DragonLinusN: what's supposed to happen if the radio screen enters/leaves USB mode?
09:49:17LinusNthe radio plays on
09:49:46 Join kurzhaarrocker [0] (~knoppix@p50876EB6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
09:50:14LinusNmostly because i haven't bothered to shut off the radio when it happens
09:50:30lImbusLinusN: make clean after cygwin-update IS mandatory :-)
09:50:37lImbuslooks like it works now !
09:50:40[IDC]Dragonbut you do a radio_set_status(0) in case SYS_USB_CONNECTED:
09:50:45LinusNit probably shuts off when leaving, since that is done by exiting the radio screen "the normal way"
09:51:00[IDC]Dragonso this is redundant
09:51:04LinusNlImbus: you haven't tried "make clean" until now?
09:51:26lImbussure.
09:51:31LinusN[IDC]Dragon: probably
09:51:44LinusNi haven't put that much effort in the fm code...
09:52:19lImbusLinusN, I had completely new /simbuild/ directories to. but not SINCE the cygwin-update at 9:41
09:53:29LinusNlImbus: ok
09:55:11kurzhaarrockerYesterday I recorded > 2h continuously with paul_rectest1.ajz. I don't find any audiable problems. Are there any analysis tools I should run on the recording?
09:55:54LinusNthere are a few tools out there, but according to amiconn, they all suck :-)
09:56:02LinusNtry fixvbr
10:00
10:01:46kurzhaarrocker(I assume you mean the windows toll vbrfix)
10:02:02kurzhaarrockertoll = tool
10:03:22kurzhaarrockerIt didn't report any errors
10:05:52[IDC]DragonLinusN: the preset menu is currently broken
10:06:01kurzhaarrockermp3fixer does find bad frames
10:06:06[IDC]DragonI can't figure out how why
10:06:13LinusN[IDC]Dragon: isn't that wonderful?
10:06:30LinusN[IDC]Dragon: what happens?
10:06:31[IDC]Dragonpressing F2 shows it, releasing F2 exits immediately
10:06:49LinusNi know what it is, i'll fix it
10:07:00[IDC]Dragonbut I can't operate it while holding F2 ;-)
10:08:35[IDC]Dragonif there is something to be changed in radio.c, better tell me than commit it
10:08:49[IDC]Dragon'cos I'm working in that file
10:09:37LinusNhang on
10:10:16LinusNi thought i fixed that long ago
10:12:01LinusN[IDC]Dragon: check the callback functions handle_radio_presets_menu_cb() and handle_radio_presets_cb()
10:12:58LinusNthey try to filter button events, but the guy who added the FM_xxx button macros didn't change the callback functions
10:16:01[IDC]Dragonthe not-to-be named guy? ;-)
10:17:19 Join Naked_ [0] (naked@naked.iki.fi)
10:17:37 Nick Naked_ is now known as Hadaka (naked@naked.iki.fi)
10:18:11 Quit lImbus (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
10:20:52LinusN[IDC]Dragon: i won't tell :-)
10:21:11kurzhaarrockerVOLDEMORT
10:21:23[IDC]DragonI committed my stuff now, so any UI fix can go ontop of that
10:24:05LinusN[IDC]Dragon: what was the problem with the philips tuner if measurement?
10:31:38[IDC]Dragonit has to state "ready", plus I was fooling myself
10:39:55[IDC]Dragonbbl
10:39:59 Quit [IDC]Dragon ()
10:59:17***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
11:00
11:02:48Zagoris there an easy way to toggle emacs' line-wrapping?
11:03:16Zagorso a single buffer acts like a ^x-3 buffer
11:04:04LinusNi have no idea
11:04:46BagderI believe there is, but I can't remember how
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11:09:48 Part ashridah
11:10:42LinusNZagor: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/help-emacs-windows/2002-12/msg00008.html
11:13:59LinusN"set the buffer-local variable "truncate-lines" to "nil" for this buffer"
11:14:26LinusNsorry, to "t"
11:15:13LinusNthat works
11:15:31LinusNset-variable truncates-lines to "t"
11:15:41 Join [IDC]Dragon [0] (~d90a3255@labb.contactor.se)
11:18:17Zagornice, thanks
11:19:24 Join webguest44 [0] (~d4963cc9@labb.contactor.se)
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12:00
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12:59:18***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
13:00
13:29:54kurzhaarrockerIf anybody cares he might fix this bug (patch included) https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1049956&group_id=44306&atid=439118
13:39:59LinusNkurzhaarrocker: done
13:40:11kurzhaarrocker:D \o/
13:44:59kurzhaarrockerLinusN: That was 11 minutes from bug report to fixing and closing the bug. Smells like a record!
13:46:28LinusN:-)
14:00
14:03:14dwihno\o/
14:22:33[IDC]Dragonand the radio screen is fixed, too :-)
14:24:00[IDC]DragonI have seen very little user reports about the button quirks. We had to find most of it ourselves. Is nobody using up-to-date builds these days?
14:24:42Lynx_Are there any major features that are only in the builds from the last few weeks?
14:25:15kurzhaarrockerNo triggered recording yet, Lynx_ :(
14:36:24 Join elinenbe [0] (~elinenbe_@65.115.46.225)
14:43:12LinusNLynx_: mostly ondio features
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14:59:20***No seen item changed, no save performed.
15:00
15:01:46[IDC]DragonLynx_: and the things we broke on the way, we need you to find them
15:06:35*Zagor announces the feature freeze
15:06:41midknooooooooooooooooooo
15:06:43midk:)
15:07:08kurzhaarrockerI thought that was announced already yesterday
15:07:17Zagornot on the mailing list
15:17:07kurzhaarrockerGrr. Again I'm to late to have triggered recording included :)
15:19:12ZagorI know we say this every time, but let's try to release sooner next time
15:19:29BagderI think we should set a date
15:19:48Zagorthat's probably a good idea. how about once every two months?
15:20:00Zagoror more often?
15:20:07Bagdernah, two months sounds fine to me
15:20:25kurzhaarrockermore often would be nearly daily build.
15:20:57Zagorso lets aim for christmas then
15:21:09kurzhaarrocker:)
15:21:58kurzhaarrockerAnd a regular feature freeze a week before release?
15:22:34Zagorwell if we announce a target date well in advance, hopefully people don't commit experimental code the last few days anyway
15:23:36kurzhaarrockerDon't worry, I don't have cvs write access anyway :)
15:25:21*LinusN has lots of nice iriver code to commit....
15:27:04*elinenbe is curious as to what that code does?
15:27:14Zagorif it doesn't affect the archos code, I think you can go ahead and commit
15:27:28*elinenbe chants "commit! commit! commit!"
15:27:59kurzhaarrockerelinenbe: Do you own an iriver?
15:28:27LinusNi know, i'll just make it work before i commit :-)
15:28:45Bagderchicken
15:28:47Bagder;-)
15:28:55elinenbekurzhaarrocker: I bought one with high hopes for this project! :)
15:29:25*kurzhaarrocker waits until LinusN commits before buying one :)
15:29:29BagderZagor: we should shortcut the db thread by trying to get some actual use cases for the id3 db browser instead
15:29:41*elinenbe laughs!
15:29:46Bagderthis meta talk is killing me
15:30:16Bagderdoes anyone know how for example the ipod db browser works?
15:30:45elinenbeBagder: I do.
15:30:45Zagori asked, but never got a response
15:31:32Bagderelinenbe: is it good?
15:31:48elinenbehttp://hercules.gcsu.edu/~flowney/MERLOT2002/iPod/
15:31:51elinenbepeople seem to love it.
15:32:02Bagderipod users, yes
15:32:04elinenbethat is a good example −− although the newest version has composers too.
15:32:12Bagderbut ipod users love everything apple does
15:32:35Bagderthat's why I want someone not attached to an ipod to comment it ;-)
15:33:01Bagderhm, no quicktime plugin
15:33:11elinenbeit's pretty nice.
15:33:21elinenbewith the scroll wheel you can get to a song very quicly
15:34:22elinenbehttp://www.apple.com/ipod/
15:34:36Zagorelinenbe: that quicktime animation is nice, but a bit confusing. does it automatically start the first song of an album when you select it. don't you ever get to see the songs?
15:35:00elinenbehttp://www.apple.com/ipod/musicandmore.html
15:35:09elinenbeif you browse by album
15:35:13elinenbeyou see the albums
15:35:28elinenbethen you hit the "right button" then you see all the songs in that album
15:35:28ZagorI clicked "artists"
15:35:33elinenbeif you click artists
15:35:38elinenbeyoud get a list of only artists
15:35:48elinenbethen lets say you scroll down to U2
15:35:55elinenbethen you can see all their albums
15:35:59Zagorsee the demo, click artists and you'll see what I mean
15:36:36elinenbewell, sometimes there is only 1 song in that album
15:36:52elinenbefor instance if I browse by artist and there is a U2 song on the batman soundtrack
15:37:02elinenbewhen I enter U2 the Batman Soundtrack will be a selection
15:37:14elinenbebut with JUST the U2 song in it...
15:37:35Zagoryes, but in the demo we never even get to see the song. it just starts playing when we go to the album
15:37:38elinenbehowever if I browse by albums, then "Batman Soundtrack" it will have all the songs in it...
15:38:08Zagoranyway, the demo confirms the navigation is nothing special. just standard tree browsing, just as we planned for rockbox
15:38:36elinenbeZagor: that is exactly what it is... just pretty polished...
15:38:52elinenbethe text slides off the screen to the left in a nice fashion.
15:39:16kurzhaarrockerI guess anything more sophisticated (eg with filters) would be to fiddly on a jukebox anyway.
15:39:31Zagoryeah, i guess many people like that sliding gimmick
15:39:53Zagorit's pretty, but I can't see much other purpose to it
15:40:23Zagor(not that there's anything wrong with being pretty)
15:40:38Bagderstill, I want someone to write down how it works
15:40:44Bagderso that we can clone it
15:40:45kurzhaarrockerMaybe we should make the text curl up in order to get longer lines on the screen?
15:40:53Zagorcurl up?
15:41:06kurzhaarrockerlike a snail housing :)
15:41:24kurzhaarrockerforget it, I'm being stupid again.
15:41:29Zagorah :)
15:41:55elinenbeZagor: what is really nice... is there are smart playlists
15:42:25elinenbelike you can create a playlist in itunes such as "listen to my 25 favorite tracks" and this updates dynamically
15:42:36elinenbeor "listen to music from the 60s"
15:42:58elinenbeor "listen to music that has been on the ipod for less than 30 days"
15:43:00elinenbeetc...
15:43:15elinenbeor "songs with beat in the title"
15:43:15Zagoryeah, but you create those lists in itunes right? now on the ipod.
15:43:21elinenbeyes −− correct.
15:43:48elinenbethere is a open source winamp plugin that has source for smart playlists...
15:43:50kurzhaarrockerimho statistical infos and ratings are the most useful things a db can add to a jukebox. And that are things that require writing / indexing on the fly.
15:44:43elinenbehttp://www.harrison-fisher.co.uk/mlipod/index.php?page=home
15:45:10Zagorstatistical info is nice, but not prio #1
15:45:30elinenbehttp://www.apple.com/lae/itunes/smartplaylists.html
15:45:37elinenbecheck that out for a brief summary
15:46:24elinenbehere is another usage of smart playlists: http://radio.weblogs.com/0100490/2002/12/09.html
15:46:49elinenbein my opinion they are one of the best features of itunes/ipod
15:47:20Zagorit's just a database, of course you can create playlists using any combination of search terms you like
15:47:50Zagorhowever that's nothing we will bother with in rockbox, since it's 100% offline software
15:48:22Bagdera plugin could easily do such magic
15:48:37Bagderonly a bit slow
15:49:18Zagorsure
15:49:29Zagorthe hard part is making a gui for it :)
15:49:38Bagderyes
15:50:05elinenbethe apple one is offline −− but ratings and playcounts can be modified on the fly... so those are the only things the ipod has to deal with dynamically
15:50:07Bagderanyway, I think prio #1 is to offer a ipod-like ui
15:50:39elinenbeisn't that what arcos offers on their newer line of players? the arclib?
15:50:41Bagderwhat I call a "db browser"
15:51:17LinusNtime to go home
15:51:24elinenbehttp://www.archos.com/products/overview/gmini_xs200.html (second pic down on the left hand side)
15:51:36*LinusN has caught a terrible cold
15:52:01*kurzhaarrocker installs a virus protection kit
15:52:42LinusNwe had a nice virus here at work today
15:52:55LinusNdeleted *a lot* of .exe files on our server
15:53:02Bagderhehe
15:53:15kurzhaarrockerI didn't do it. Honestly! This time it really wasn't me!
15:53:22LinusN:-)
15:53:54Zagorelinenbe: yeah, looks like an id3 browser
15:54:09LinusNbye all
15:54:16 Part LinusN
15:54:17Zagorthat's pretty much how I planned to lay it out too
15:54:47BagderZagor: started on any code?
15:54:56Zagorno, just concepts in my head
15:55:23Bagderabout fixed field sizes, I think we should set the max field size for the db in a header of the db
15:55:31Bagderfor various fields
15:56:31BagderI have my perl script working and doing tables and so, basically waiting for some early code to decide on a binary format to generate
15:57:32Zagorthat's probably a good idea. that would make searching much faster
15:57:55Bagderyes, and it wouldn't limit us on a set size for the crazy users with loooong names
15:58:04Zagorexactly
16:00
16:01:28*kurzhaarrocker dimly remembers that ther were sorting algorithms that only used only excerpts from the start, middle and end of strings to save comparation time.
16:01:28kurzhaarrockerCould something like that be advatagous to save space / time when considering the db format?
16:02:35BagderI intend to sort in my perl script on host
16:02:36Zagornah, when the tables are sorted you don't compare many strings anyway
16:04:13[IDC]Dragondoes anybody know what this mp3 player could be:
16:04:19[IDC]Dragonhttp://www.tchibo.de/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/de/-/EUR/TdTchDisplayProductInformation-Start?ProductSKU=0006450
16:04:37[IDC]DragonI doubt it's a completely new model
16:04:55Zagorvery thin
16:05:14Zagorcan't say i've seen it before
16:05:54[IDC]Dragonvery few buttons
16:06:08[IDC]Dragonthere's no at the side, but a line in jack
16:07:09[IDC]DragonTchibo is a widespead german coffe shop, they have specials every week
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17:08:24ZagorBagder: i did some updates to the tagdatabase page
17:08:36Bagderok, I'll check it out
17:12:39Bagderwhat about genres and years?
17:12:52Zagorcoming :)
17:12:56Bagderok
17:12:59Bagderneato
17:14:46ZagorI haven't made up my mind which approach to use for that yet
17:16:32Zagori guess three tables for genre and tree for year is the rational brute-force approach
17:17:00Zagoryear2artist, year2album, year2song, genre2artist, genre2album, genre2song
17:18:48Bagderas an addition to the artist2album and album@song tables then
17:18:56Bagderalbum2song
17:19:30Zagoryes. but that still means we need to search the year2album list when we browse 1982->abba
17:19:31Bagderthat's 8 mapping tables
17:20:04Bagderwhy, you mentioned year2artist?
17:20:23Zagoryes, that list tells us which artists released something a certain year.
17:20:43Zagorbut when we select that artist, we want to get a list of albums with songs for that year
17:20:51Bagderah
17:23:48Zagorit becomes an obscene number of tables :)
17:24:22Bagderwell, if we have 6 data types, I guess 30 tables is max ;-)
17:24:28Zagorhehe
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17:25:13BagderI'm not sure it is too much, seriously
17:25:54Zagorno
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17:26:33Zagorbut even 30 tables doesn't help the above 1982->abba->??? case
17:26:48Zagorwe'd need a 1982->abba->album table :)
17:26:52Bagdertrue
17:27:02Bagderwe need code to combine tables anyway
17:27:13Bagderand that takes sequentually scanning at least one table
17:27:21Zagoryes
17:28:17BagderI think we should make a mockup db first, and write the first basic ui using that
17:28:44Bagderthen we'll get a better understanding and thinking on how to create it the best way
17:29:16Zagoryes. lets start with just artist-album-song first
17:29:21Zagorthose are easy
17:29:25Bagderyes
17:29:48Zagori'll add a note to the wiki about the issues
17:38:37Bagderoff to make food
17:38:54Zagori'm away too. see you.
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18:25:55SekuHello
18:26:15SekuCould someone help me???
18:26:42SekuAn archos jukebox 6000 problem (with linux)
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