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#rockbox log for 2004-10-26

00:01:08DBUGEnqueued KICK CpuMan2001
00:01:08CpuMan200114(9 thegeek 14)99 made a feature request, haven't seen anything about it yet
00:01:46CpuMan2001http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1047334&group_id=44306&atid=439121
00:03:06 Quit mrelwood ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
00:15:51 Quit amiconn (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:15:51 Nick amiconn_ is now known as amiconn (~jens@pD9E7FDBA.dip.t-dialin.net)
00:19:05thegeekwhoa?
00:19:08thegeekah
00:19:08thegeek;)
00:19:10thegeekdang
00:19:12thegeekgreen text
00:19:17thegeek;)
00:19:43thegeekif a developer feels like implementing it is worth their time it will probably be done;)
00:19:45thegeekif noe, well;)
00:22:16 Quit matsl (Remote closed the connection)
00:27:27CpuMan2001alright, thanks
00:40:46 Quit iriverowner ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
00:41:28 Quit AciD (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:45:37 Join yeft [0] (~Leboff@pcp08615553pcs.benslm01.pa.comcast.net)
00:45:42yefti need some help
00:45:57yeftyou guys are the smartest bunch of techies i know...
00:47:15yeftanyone alive/
00:55:48amiconnZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz..........
00:56:54amiconn(Sorry, couldn't resist)
00:57:35yeft...well apparently i'm screwed
01:00
01:01:35 Join LinusN [0] (~linus@labb.contactor.se)
01:02:09yeftcause i'm scared someone has a keylogger installed on here
01:02:13amiconnhi LinusN
01:02:31LinusNhi
01:02:37yefthi linusn...
01:08:09amiconnLinusN: There are 3 open .lang patches in the tracker. I wonder whether we should let them go into 2.3 (czech, french, and wallisertitsch)
01:08:22LinusNwe should
01:08:41LinusNhowever, there has been a lot of frenchmen discussing the french translation
01:09:38LinusNwait with the french one
01:11:15amiconnIn fact, rockbox claims to support 24 languages. However, many of them are way outdated.
01:13:37amiconnI'm currently doing extensive tests analyzing the MPEG2.5 playback problem. In parallel I'm looking into MBROLA tts, in order to produce voice files for more languages. MBROLA also supports Swedish...
01:19:27LinusNi have tried mbrola, sounds like sh*t
01:19:30LinusN:-)
01:19:53LinusNcompared to the at&t etc
01:19:54***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:20:09LinusNwhat is the mpeg2.5 bug?
01:21:12amiconnAh. Did not try it yet. Some other products I tried sound really good (and also offer more languages that AT&T), but they are not free.... For instance, ScanSoft RealSpeak supports many languages, and sounds really good.
01:22:08amiconnI reported that MPEG2.5 problem on the ml... seems to be a MAS issue that is (strangely) common to all MAS kinds...
01:22:28LinusNyes, you said "stuttering"?
01:24:11amiconnActually, there are 2 problems: (1) Playback of MPEG2.5 layer 3 *VBR* is stuttering. CBR works. (2) Playback of MPEG2.5 layer 2 is totally odd: 8 kHz and 11 kHz make "twittering" noises, 12 kHz sounds like mickey mouse.
01:25:59amiconnAll combinations tested on Ondio (both with rockbox and archos fw) so far, but progressing (geez! this means listening to the same track 162 times!)
01:26:49LinusNand ot works on the archos fw?
01:27:01amiconnNo, it's the same
01:27:21LinusNtry fiddling with the postpone_dma_tick() delay
01:27:57amiconnIirc this is only for the newer mas' (recorder/ondio)? The problem is also there on the player (!)
01:28:43amiconn(player not completely tested yet, rockbox only so far, and vbr only)
01:30:10LinusNi suggest you put a scope on the DEMAND pin
01:30:46amiconnAwww... can be difficult. Those pins are really dense
01:34:47amiconnI suppose that the mas (all kinds) don't support LSF with layer 2. The layer 3 VBR issue is a bug. Maybe it can be fixed by adjusting the postpone thingy, however, I wonder how to do this on the player
01:39:07amiconnLinusN: If you are interested I could send you my test set (the whole set is ~85 MB, the MPEG2.5 part alone is ~9 MB)
01:41:42 Quit mecraw__ ("Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com)")
01:43:52 Quit yeft ("Leaving")
01:45:45LinusNi have to go to sleep now
01:46:06LinusNcu tomorrow
01:46:08LinusNnite
01:46:10 Part LinusN
01:54:26 Quit _aLF ("Leaving")
01:55:01 Join Guest1 [0] (~jirc@spr1-warr1-3-0-cust233.bagu.broadband.ntl.com)
01:57:51 Quit Guest1 (Client Quit)
02:00
02:03:45 Join paradox [0] (~45f31293@labb.contactor.se)
02:03:47amiconnAh crap
02:04:51amiconnTooLame is too lame to produce correct MPEG2.5 layer 2 files :^(
02:13:05 Quit paradox ("CGI:IRC")
02:13:09 Join paradox [0] (~45f31293@labb.contactor.se)
02:14:45 Part CpuMan2001
02:16:42 Join bagawk [0] (~80c10006@labb.contactor.se)
02:16:43 Quit paradox (Client Quit)
02:18:59bagawkamiconn: not sure what the exchange rate is now, but i found a distributor in the US for LEDS, they have 0805 white for .60$ each and sell any quanity
02:19:15bagawkI will be ordering them soon, as soon as i can get my mom to
02:19:43bagawkthe site is lsdiodes.com
02:19:47Plughbagawk: lemme know what LEDs you want
02:19:58Plugha friend orders them from Taiwan
02:20:06bagawkPlugh: really?
02:20:37 Join paradox [0] (~45f31293@labb.contactor.se)
02:20:50bagawkPlugh: smd white leds in a 0805 casing
02:21:11bagawk100 mca or so
02:21:31Plughasking him now
02:21:43Plughbtw, what'd ya want the other day? I got a msg from ya
02:21:48amiconnbagawk: The price is good, I'd say
02:22:10bagawknot much, just wanted to talk to you, i have not seen you around in a LONG time
02:22:25bagawkIf you do not remember me, i was once dstar5
02:22:50Plughah yes. Heys diddy
02:23:15PlughI was looking for someone to help me patch my rockbox for CD length recording splits
02:23:46Plughmidk helped out a bit but we found that the devs moved to gcc 3.3 req'd
02:24:29Plughright now I can't get gcc 3.3 installed
02:24:31Plughgrr
02:24:37bagawk:(
02:25:03PlughIn file included from embed-bb.c:40:
02:25:03Plughtsystem.h:72:19: stdio.h: No such file or directory
02:25:03Plughtsystem.h:75:23: sys/types.h: No such file or directory
02:25:03DBUGEnqueued KICK Plugh
02:25:03Plughtsystem.h:78:19: errno.h: No such file or directory
02:25:06Plughblah blah
02:25:30bagawk:P looks like the search path is not working right
02:26:09Plughlooks to me like ./configure missed something
02:26:42bagawki have binary versions of 3.3.1
02:26:46bagawk(for cygwin)
02:27:11bagawkall you would have to do is do a export
02:27:59Plughbah
02:28:16Plughf@#% cygwin
02:28:22PlughI wanna do this in linux
02:28:29bagawkhehe
02:28:34bagawki thought you used cygwin
02:28:56Plughonly to save me from a fate worse than DOS when working in Windows
02:29:13bagawktrue...
02:29:19Plughmy primary dev environment is, and has been for the past 13 years, UNIX
02:30:09bagawkI would love to completely switch to linux
02:30:36 Quit paradox ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
02:31:05Plugh /home/plugh/gcc-3.3.4/gcc/xgcc -B/home/plugh/gcc-3.3.4/gcc/ -B/home/plugh/sh1/sh-elf/bin/ -B/home/plugh/sh1/sh-elf/lib/ -isystem /home/plugh/sh1/sh-elf/include -O2 -DIN_GCC -DCROSS_COMPILE -W -Wall -Wwrite-strings -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes -isystem ./include -g -DIN_LIBGCC2 -D__GCC_FLOAT_NOT_NEEDED -Dinhibit_libc -I. -I. -I. -I./. -I./config -I./../include -c embed-bb.c -o libgcc/./embed-bb.o
02:31:07bagawkJust need a modem that is supported, and my dad to realize that AOL is horrible
02:31:14Plughthat seems to be... wrong
02:31:26Plughit's looking for includes that haven't been installed to the path yet
02:32:47bagawkPlugh: what distrobution do you use?
02:32:57Plughsome old redhat
02:33:07Plughtotally bastardized for my needs
02:33:18bagawkI bet
02:33:43bagawkWhat window manager do you use?
02:33:50Plughwindow manager?
02:33:53Plughwhat's that?
02:34:25zeX == 6-10 terms visible at once
02:34:33ze:p
02:34:49bagawklike GNOME, KDE, ratpoison, fluxbox, blackbox, xfce...
02:34:54zeE!
02:34:58Plughscreen = umm... 20 or 30 terms at once
02:34:58bagawkso you dont use X?
02:35:04Plughno, I don't use X
02:35:09PlughX is teh debil
02:35:09bagawkahh
02:35:15bagawkhehe
02:35:31zewell number of terms depends on screen resolution and terminal size...
02:35:39Plughnot for me
02:36:00zenumber wholey visible at once that is
02:36:00zeheh
02:36:15bagawkI am to lazy to go without X
02:36:35PlughI'm running 15 textmode windows at once
02:36:39Plughwith no windowing
02:36:46Plughstraight text
02:37:00bagawk:)
02:37:06Plughand my interface transfers from one computer to another with nothing more than an ssh client
02:37:11zei also like having firefox with a dozen tabs for my desktop background
02:37:30zeyeah well it's not like X isn't network transparent
02:37:46Plughscrew UNIX browsing. heh. I use Windows for that crap
02:37:51zebut yeah ssh/screen is better in that respect
02:37:52zehaha
02:38:31zewell if you're just a masochist, then whatever :p
02:38:44bagawkmacintosh is weird
02:39:22bagawkIt looks so nicve, but i hate when one program has so many windows
02:39:58bagawkThats on reason why I do not like the GIMP
02:40:55amiconnAs there seem to be some cli techies around: I'm looking for a simple mpeg audio encoder that is able to *correctly* encode mpeg2.5 layer 2. Suggestions, anyone?
02:41:13Plughlame?
02:41:14zetoolame?
02:41:19bagawkLAME does not do it?
02:41:23zelame's layer-3 only iirc
02:41:26amiconnTooLame is obviously too lame to do it, and lame is layer 3 only
02:41:27zethats why there's toolame
02:41:55Plughoh, 2.5 layer 2... dunno. I'm sure there is
02:42:01Plughfraunhoffer?
02:42:01zei don't know of any other layer-2 encoders
02:42:05zeoh right
02:42:09zeprobably that
02:42:12amiconntoolame works fine with mpeg1 and mpeg2 layer 2, but fails on 2.5
02:42:58zewhat does 2.5 bring to layer-2?
02:43:19zejust broader bitrate range like layer-3?
02:43:51amiconnmpeg2.5 (not an official standard btw) is sometimes also referred as LSF. It defines the sample frequencies 8, 11.025 and 12 kHz, for all layers
02:43:52 Join edx_ [0] (edx@p54879A6D.dip.t-dialin.net)
02:48:47zeanybody know much about condenser mics?
02:49:25bagawkNope
02:50:18amiconnNo, sorry
02:58:38 Quit edx (Read error: 238 (Connection timed out))
03:00
03:07:45bagawkbye bye
03:08:10 Quit bagawk ("CGI:IRC")
03:08:12amiconnBah, seems I have to compile the latest toolame myself.
03:18:09 Nick edx_ is now known as edx (edx@p54879A6D.dip.t-dialin.net)
03:18:45 Quit edx ()
03:19:57***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
03:37:24 Part amiconn
04:00
04:39:48 Join G_ [0] (G@ti521110a080-0881.bb.online.no)
04:39:49 Quit thegeek (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
05:00
05:02:27 Join vinsm [0] (therzaGza@222-152-45-108.adsl.ihug.co.nz)
05:02:59vinsmis the gmini 400 worth a purchase??
05:03:14vinsmheard rumours bout a gba emulator...any truth?
05:08:40 Join NibbIer [0] (Nibbler@201.7.51.31)
05:08:42NibbIerhelo
05:09:29vinsmhi
05:09:56 Join webguest99 [0] (~cb33af57@labb.contactor.se)
05:10:23vinsmis the gmini 400 worth a purchase??
05:10:23vinsm<vinsm> heard rumours bout a gba emulator...any truth?
05:11:42 Quit webguest99 (Client Quit)
05:11:52 Join webguest99 [0] (~cb33af57@labb.contactor.se)
05:12:00 Part vinsm
05:12:47NibbIerrockbox.org - nice :)
05:19:59***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
05:20:46 Quit webguest99 ("CGI:IRC")
05:46:03 Join wacky_ [0] (~wacky@modemcable044.39-37-24.mc.videotron.ca)
05:46:24wacky_ls -al
05:46:29wacky_oops :) lol
05:46:50wacky_are you guys Rockbox fans ?
05:47:04wacky_and do you know about the H1xx iRiver series development ?
05:47:46NibbIeri am rockbox fan, caus it roxx
05:47:55NibbIerbut i dont have a archos atm :(
05:50:46wacky_hmm.. okay
06:00
06:03:57Plughiriver doesn't work... yet
06:04:21Stryke`give it time
06:06:11wacky_yeah... of course :)
06:06:15wacky_I just read the IRC archives..
06:06:31wacky_man you guys are good..
06:06:47Stryke`as soon as it starts working, then comes all the feature requests of which i've got quite a few ;-)
06:07:13wacky_not to kick these perfect idiots flooding the channel with non-sense
06:11:28PlughStryke`: if you have feature reqs, log them to the project now
06:11:53Plughit might get implemented for archos, etc. and will just port to iriver when they fix the core code
06:12:03wacky_do you guys own any player ?!
06:12:15PlughFMR here
06:12:46wacky_did you have a look at the iRiver players ? how would you compare them ?
06:13:28NibbIeri am looging at iriver atm
06:13:29Stryke`i have an iRiver iHP-120
06:13:35Plughnope. My FMR has worked for over a year and a half, and I haven't seen a need to replace it yet
06:13:41wacky_also, must these guys write new drivers for all the H1xx pieces of hardware ? like the HDD, the LCD, etc.. ?
06:13:55Stryke`Plugh: can't the archos can't support new file formats and APEv2 Tag support is kinda secondary
06:14:31Plughtrue that it won't support more than mp3
06:14:39wacky_Plugh - yeah.. just wanted to know if you could compare both.. because I don'Kt know about the FMR
06:14:49Stryke`.MPC support would be to-die-for
06:14:55Plughwhy
06:15:01Plughall my music is mp3
06:15:02Plugh:)
06:15:10Plughand my books
06:15:10wacky_All my music is Ogg !
06:15:32Plughsorry to hear that wacky
06:15:44wacky_Come on you guys.. :) Be real geeks.. and push for all the open standards :) Open source firmware, etc :)
06:16:01Plughumm. the MAS decoder chip can't support other formats
06:16:02Stryke`so is mine (MP3), however MPC has proven (through ABX, both personal and other) to be transparent at much lower bitrates, is natively gapless, and APEv2 tags are its standard
06:16:03wacky_Plugh - why are you sorry ?! because of my music being in ogg ?
06:16:11PlughMAS is what's in my player
06:16:23Plughso umm... there's no need to switch music formats
06:16:45Plughmp3 is probably the most universally supported encoding
06:16:55wacky_Stryke` - Have a look at the Ogg Vorbis specs :)
06:17:06Plughso why be divisive by suggesting new codecs?
06:17:15Plughsimplicity is king
06:17:19Stryke`wacky_: vorbis is nice by design, but forked and not tuned (yet) as well as MPC
06:17:25wacky_mp3 is way too old
06:17:34Plughso is FAT
06:17:46Plughand ASCII
06:17:51PlughASCII is hella old
06:17:58Stryke`as long as the firmware eventually supports gapless from LAME tags (like foobar and other software, and the Rio Karma) all will be fine
06:18:18wacky_Stryke` - the latest release beats them all :) with the fine tunings of aoTuV
06:18:32Stryke`for transparency?
06:18:36wacky_and more over, it's *free* !!
06:18:44Stryke`MPC is free, open source decoder
06:19:06wacky_is that the Musepack codec ?
06:19:14Stryke`yes
06:19:28Stryke`99.9% of people use MP3, i understand. but there's no reason not to include open source decoders if possible (ogg, mpc, et al)
06:19:29NibbIerhow many GB does iriver hp120 have?
06:19:40Stryke`iHP-120 has 20, 140 has 40
06:20:11NibbIerah ic
06:20:47 Quit scott666_ ("i'll be back...eventually...")
06:21:07wacky_btw, MPC is based on patented MPEG techonologies, it's absolutely not free
06:21:26Stryke`MPC has an open source decoder
06:21:47Stryke`its generally thought these patents (if they exist) are nearly expired
06:21:52wacky_the only thing.. is that there are *kind of free* implementations.. but just like mpg123 decodes mp3 doesn't make MP3 a free codec
06:22:39wacky_but it's generally false :) since patents last for at least 20 years.. and MP3 has about 13-15 years old.. and MPC was something that appeared wwaaaay after Mp3 :)
06:22:54Stryke`MPC is based on MP2, not 3
06:23:21wacky_and don't think they don't exist :) because the MPEG group blasts his technologies with patents.. not just one.. not just a couple..
06:23:36wacky_where's the difference ? same licensing problem
06:24:12Stryke`i honestly don't see the advantages of the completely free Ogg Vorbis over MPC or MP3
06:24:21wacky_If you want to use a free codec.. use Vorbis .. some crazy guys *really* fine tuned the rates to be impressive.. that's the power of open source, open specs, etc :)
06:24:26Stryke`its not as if the software/hardware that currently decodes will stop it
06:25:00wacky_we *must* push for open standards, free (as in libertÚ) software and codecs,
06:25:31wacky_because that's what makes a better world, more interoperable systems and more global technologies
06:25:33Stryke`but the open source nature of Vorbis makes it fork way too often
06:25:43wacky_what ?!?
06:26:03wacky_when did you see Vorbis fork that much ?
06:26:35Stryke`when there was GT3b1, GT3b1, aoTuV beta 2, 1.0.1 all out at the same time
06:26:41Stryke`and Megamixes which combined
06:27:00wacky_except aoTuV.. that recently merged with libvorbis1.1.0
06:27:19Stryke`is 1.1 the newest?
06:27:43Stryke`with the aoTuV tunings
06:27:52wacky_yup
06:27:54Stryke`to be honest, i don't care much for the low-end bitrate tunings
06:28:14Stryke`if this reaches transparency ~160-192 kbps VBR, i will definitely look into it
06:28:14wacky_anyway... this isn't much an audio issue
06:28:15PlughI'd love some good low-bitrate encodes for books
06:28:26NibbIerthats nice for streams, but u hardly listen to streams on your archos :)
06:28:28Stryke`MPC is also a very fast encoder/decoder
06:28:54wacky_Never, in my life time.. anyone will be able to take my ogg files out of my hands
06:28:55Plughmp3 is plenty OK in realtime
06:28:58Plugh:)
06:29:14wacky_We can't be sure with your MP3 and MPC files
06:29:26Plughwacky: you're gonna be a long time waiting for a portable device to listen to your oggs
06:29:36wacky_?!
06:29:38wacky_I own it already
06:29:42Stryke`iRiver plays Ogg Vorbis right now
06:29:54Plughah
06:30:01wacky_hey .. Vorbis isn't a joke
06:30:03Plughis it in hardware?
06:30:06wacky_software
06:30:17Stryke`Plugh: iRiver doesn't have a hardware decoder
06:30:19wacky_and there's that other crazy guy that developed Ogg-on-a-Chip.. a hardware decoding chip
06:30:23Stryke`its all soft
06:30:37wacky_you know why ? because he just downloaded the specs from the website
06:30:47wacky_he didn't need to license anything.. it cost nothing
06:31:01Plughheh in that case, it'll probably take a while for rockbox on iriver
06:31:16Stryke`Tremor is available for anyone
06:31:20wacky_and now those wackos developing childish speaking pets can use Ogg-on-a-chip and pay nothing to anyone
06:31:29Plughafaik, there's no decoder source written for rockbox
06:31:30Plughyet
06:31:34wacky_a lot of game developers now use Ogg over MP3
06:31:39wacky_you know why ?! huh ?
06:31:54Plughcuz Fraunhoffer is a bitch?
06:31:57wacky_because they can get it to work the way *they* intend it to be.. and for free
06:32:26Stryke`wacky_: from musepack.net:
06:32:28Stryke`"It is based on the MPEG-1 Layer-2 / MP2 algorithms, but has rapidly developed and vastly improved and is now at an advanced stage in which it contains heavily optimized and patentless code."
06:32:31wacky_Fraunhoffer and the other can keep their old bullshit anyway.. who cares about Fraunhoffer, now that we have our own codec!
06:33:34 Quit NibbIer ()
06:33:35wacky_hey man! Vorbis is yours! and mine! Wouldn't you use something that truly is yours ?
06:34:00Stryke`patentless code, both the encoder and decoder open source
06:34:04Stryke`sounds pretty free to me
06:34:11wacky_you'll *never* be tied using these ! that's why we must push it .. everywhere you can .. in any contexts.. you need an audio codec ? use Vorbis! everywhere
06:34:27Stryke`here's to zealotry ;-)
06:34:35wacky_that way.. Vorbis will get used.. and will spread.. and soon we will have a free (as in libre, again) audio world
06:34:46Plughhere's to people living up to their IRC nicks
06:34:58wacky_:P
06:35:02Stryke`harder for some than others
06:36:01Plugh50% of my music collection was created before ogg, before wma, before mpc
06:36:17Plughback then, you had .wav, .au, .mp3, and .aiff
06:36:26wacky_mine too! but don't you think I switched immediately ? and starting my .ogg collection right away
06:36:46Plughguess which one of those 4 wins on the size/quality spectrum
06:36:50wacky_so slowly.. but consciouly and actively, I'm switching codecs
06:37:00Plughanyone? anyone? Bueller? Bueller?
06:37:08Stryke`Plugh: do you rip your own? or only download
06:37:11wacky_hey.. that was years ago
06:37:15PlughStryke`: both
06:37:19Plughyes, it was years ago
06:37:45Stryke`so a switch to a new codec simply means in the future when you rip a CD, rip it in whatever format you prefer
06:37:46Plughand right now, my player only supports mp3
06:37:47wacky_you think we should stick with that old mono-stereo-only distorted codec because he was there first ?
06:37:50wacky_and that no change is possible ?
06:38:11Stryke`night, all
06:38:13Plughso excuse me for not being excited about changing
06:38:17 Quit Stryke` ("Friends don't let friends listen to Anti-Flag")
06:38:23wacky_Plugh - then you bought the wrong one :)
06:38:26PlughI refuse to re-encode all my music
06:38:33wacky_I never re-encoded my music
06:38:38Plughno I didn't. There were no other players on the market
06:38:45Plughnothing reprogrammable
06:38:50wacky_and btw, that's a quite bad idea.. since you'll lose quality tremendeously
06:38:59PlughCORRECT SIR!
06:39:10wacky_the iRiver H1xx series :)
06:39:22wacky_I got mine about a year and a quarter ago :)
06:39:30wacky_heheh.. anyway :)
06:40:10wacky_just wanted to spread my 2 cents :)
06:40:12Plughhave you tried this Ogg diatribe with Linus in channel? ;)
06:40:24wacky_no.. it's the first time I come here
06:40:29wacky_what does Linus think about Ogg ?
06:40:36Plughumm
06:40:50Plughhe's tired of being pestered about it
06:40:57PlughOgg is on the NODO list
06:41:05Plughwhich means, don't ask
06:42:15wacky_ohh.. that's alright :) but you can be sure I'll use the firmware which keeps my music free, in the first place..
06:42:21Plughhaha! Someone had a feature request to allow the FM models to play AM channels, simply by tuning it down
06:42:42Plughso you'll use closed-source software to play your open-source music
06:42:44Plughheh
06:42:59PlughI'd rather use open-source software to play closed-source music ;)
06:43:17wacky_well I can always throw out the player .. and buy another one.. or play it on the computer
06:43:24wacky_I won't throw out my music collection
06:43:46Plughnor will I
06:43:53Plughand I will not re-encode my music
06:44:26wacky_you'll never free your music from using closed-source software if you encode it as such.. but you can always free it if you get some open-source firmware afterwards
06:44:30wacky_the reverse isn't true, though
06:45:07wacky_(ouch.. that sentence was a bit non-sense.. anyway.. hope you catched a bit :)
06:45:28Plughpardon my lack of enthusiasm for your favorite format. My player will never support your format, so frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn.
06:45:42wacky_:P
06:45:56wacky_why do you use Linux ?
06:46:19Plughwhy don't you?
06:46:20Plugh:)
06:46:28wacky_??
06:46:59wacky_I do
06:47:11PlughI use Linux because I've been using it for the past 13 years
06:47:18wacky_GNU/Linux is my baby :)
06:47:37PlughI've been using it since kernel 0.96a
06:48:00Plughand it does what I need it to do for mail and servers
06:49:06wacky_and maybe it's because it was so widely used at the time.. and because it was soo functional and simple ?
06:49:33Plughum, yeah... Linux was widely used and simple in 1991...
06:49:34Plugh:P
06:49:40wacky_and not because it was free ?
06:49:44wacky_nahhhh.. give me a break
06:50:47wacky_anyway :) I'll go get some rest
06:50:58wacky_that was an interesting discussion :)
06:51:11PlughI used Linux because I needed to learn UNIX
06:51:18PlughI was working in SunOS
06:51:31Plughand it was the best offering to run on my 386SX
06:51:42wacky_we'll have a chat some day :)
06:51:58wacky_next time it could be on the open-source economics ?! :) why not :) hheheh
06:52:05Plughmebbe
06:52:13Plughbtw, I'm an open-source fiend
06:52:28Plughone of the 1st 100 people to register on Sourceforge on release day
06:52:57wacky_:P yeah.. you must :) otherwise... you wouldn't be here :)
06:53:00wacky_see you later :)
06:53:18PlughI'm here cuz I needed my FMR to do better recording ;)
06:53:19Plughcya
06:53:29 Quit wacky_ ("heeeeehee :)")
06:53:39Plughsilly canuck
06:55:52 Join LinusN [0] (~linus@labb.contactor.se)
07:00
07:12:46 Join webguest03 [0] (~81157e06@labb.contactor.se)
07:13:17 Quit webguest03 (Client Quit)
07:20:03***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
07:22:21 Join AciD [0] (~gni@longchamp44-1-82-67-133-87.fbx.proxad.net)
08:00
08:31:56 Join Zagor [242] (~bjst@labb.contactor.se)
08:32:37Zagormorning
08:34:05dwihnohowdy ho!
08:34:06LinusNyo ho
08:34:14LinusNZagor: seen the news?
08:34:25Zagorno. what?
08:34:28dwihno:O :O :O :O
08:34:33dwihnoHooray for Linus!
08:34:48Zagorwooo, lcd coolness
08:34:59LinusNcheck the picture
08:35:06dwihnoyum yum
08:35:23Zagorlooking great
08:35:39LinusNmakes me feel warm and fuzzy inside...
08:35:43Zagoryeah
08:36:32dwihnoThis is really cool!
08:36:35dwihnoReally really cool!
08:36:41LinusNindeed
09:00
09:09:07 Join MisticJeff [0] (~41ad57f3@labb.contactor.se)
09:09:16MisticJeffMorning All
09:09:26Zagorhi jeff
09:10:04 Join lImbus [0] (lImbus@154.188-200-80.adsl.skynet.be)
09:10:10lImbusHi All.
09:10:16lImbusAh, Congratz LinusN
09:10:38MisticJeffVery Nice! Linus ;)
09:10:48lImbusthe display looks wicked, sheesh !
09:11:27lImbusI had a brief look at the code you commited. Dude, I don't get much !
09:12:49Zagorhehe
09:13:10lImbus:)
09:16:02CtcpIgnored 2 channel CTCP requests in 2 hours and 23 minutes at the last flood
09:16:02*LinusN is happy
09:20:07***No seen item changed, no save performed.
09:21:12Plughhiya Linus
09:21:16Plughhow ya been?
09:21:22LinusNsick :-(
09:21:53Plughsorry to hear
09:22:00PlughI'm a little under the weather myself
09:22:12Plughspent Saturday camping in the rain
09:22:25LinusNalways a nice way to spend a saturday
09:22:27Plughgot soaked to the skin in like 12C temps
09:22:46LinusNcamping at its best
09:24:02Plughmy mistake for not wearing anything waterproof
09:31:13 Join ceebmoj [0] (~5189b144@labb.contactor.se)
09:31:29ceebmojhelow
09:32:36LinusNhi
09:33:47ceebmojI am intrested in helping with the port to ihp-120 and was wondering if ther was any thing inpaticula that pepol would like me to look at
09:33:56Bagder*rock* LinusN!
09:37:32 Quit lImbus (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- \o/")
09:40:56*Bagder detects code duplication in lcd-recorder and lcd-h100
09:41:07Bagderbut I guess we'll sort that out later, if needed
09:41:23Zagoryeah
09:44:17LinusNceebmoj: i'll put up a todo list soon
09:44:58Zagorthere's plenty to do
09:46:21BagderI think we should make the sim work for h100 again
09:46:43Bagdersince then we can at least point iriver people to it
09:47:21*Bagder goes to make coffee
09:49:35 Join [1]ceebmoj [0] (~ceebmoj@host81-137-177-68.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
09:50:17 Quit ceebmoj ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
09:50:19 Nick [1]ceebmoj is now known as ceebmoj (~ceebmoj@host81-137-177-68.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
09:50:28ceebmojhelow again
09:56:09 Quit ceebmoj (" Like VS.net's GUI? Then try HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-")
09:59:00BagderZagor: any release-notes draft for 2.3 yet?
10:00
10:00:09Zagornot yet, just started on it.
10:00:16Bagderok
10:00:51BagderI wonder if we have any rockbox dude near Nice
10:01:05Zagorahh, good thinking
10:01:07LinusNyeah
10:01:38uskihi all
10:01:47Bagderhowdy uski
10:02:09uski:)
10:02:21uskiim ok and i hope you are ok too
10:02:31uskithere was a problem with haxx wasn't it ?
10:03:27Bagderwhen?
10:04:00Zagorit was down a few hours yesterday morning. a scsi disk is on its' last days.
10:04:27Bagderright, and it was off a while on friday evening (euro time) when we changed firewall
10:12:10 Join [IDC]Dragon [0] (~d90a3255@labb.contactor.se)
10:13:39[IDC]Dragonmorning
10:13:49[IDC]Dragoncongratulations, LinusN !
10:16:05LinusNthanks
10:17:08[IDC]Dragonwhat format is the crenn memory? I guess you have to rotate is straight again?
10:17:16[IDC]Dragonscreen
10:17:28[IDC]Dragons/is/it
10:18:22uskibrb
10:18:24 Quit uski ("Leaving")
10:19:47[IDC]Dragonbut your code seems to pass the data unmodified
10:21:32Zagorthe epson controller uses the same screenbuffer format in b/w mode
10:21:40LinusN[IDC]Dragon: the data layout is exactly as the solomon controller
10:21:55[IDC]Dragon"compatibility mode", nice
10:22:04LinusN(in monochrome mode)
10:22:32[IDC]Dragoncan yoi play .rvf's already? ;-)
10:22:34BagderI guess that is good enough for the initial boot loader stuff
10:22:42LinusNabsolutely
10:23:00BagderI'm thrilled by this development
10:23:27Zagoractually it's good enough for everything, since we don't have any coloured stuff to display :)
10:23:36Zagor(yet)
10:23:48Bagderright
10:23:52*[IDC]Dragon remembers first time seeing the Rockbox logo on the Ondio
10:24:01Bagderbut iriver owners will demand greyscale
10:24:05[IDC]Dragonbut that was nothing in comparison
10:24:05LinusNsweet memories
10:24:28ZagorBagder: then they are free to submit grayscale icons and whatnot
10:24:38Bagderhehe
10:24:53BagderI'm sure I'll give in and get an iriver in the end and then I'll do my share as well
10:25:16[IDC]Dragondidn't you just get a JBR?
10:25:25BagderI did
10:25:36Bagderbut you can't really enjoy programming for a unit you don't own ;-)
10:26:47LinusNfyi, the grayscale format is almost the save, but has 2 bits per pixel, so each row is 4 pixels high
10:26:55LinusNs/save/same/
10:26:59Bagderaha
10:27:07[IDC]Dragonwhat an odd format
10:27:11Bagderthat's quite a convenient format
10:28:08[IDC]Dragonwe can keep our font format, that's nice
10:28:21*Bagder runs off
10:28:37 Join amiconn [0] (~jens@pD9E7FDBA.dip.t-dialin.net)
10:28:48amiconnhi all
10:28:55[IDC]Dragonhi one
10:29:07amiconn;)
10:29:11LinusNyou can set the level of the two grayscale shades in 6 steps
10:29:36[IDC]Dragonpalette animation!
10:29:42LinusNwooo
10:29:49Bagderhehe, greyscale flickering for more scales! :-)
10:30:12amiconnLinusN: Congratulations! Rockbox logo in iRiver looks cool. Seems that iRiver doesn't need the white backlight mod ;)
10:30:19amiconns/in/on/
10:30:33BagderZagor: post a q on the list to see if there's any frech guy we can meet during the weekend, I gotta run
10:30:45LinusNcu Bagder
10:35:55amiconnLinusN: Forget my statements about MPEG2.5 layer 2. My test files were crap; toolame doesn't support that version-layer combo. Unfortunately, I found no other encoder that does.
10:36:34amiconnHowever, I found some more quirks while testing on the player.
10:38:32amiconn(1) layer 3 @11.025 kHz (only! but both cbr and vbr) causes "silent play". (2) layer 2 @48 kHz stutters (only a little)
11:00
11:01:31 Join kurzhaarrocker [0] (~knoppix@p50877027.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
11:01:56*kurzhaarrocker shakes LinusN's hand.
11:01:56kurzhaarrockerCongrats for LCD driver!
11:02:10LinusNamiconn: those issues sound like DEMAND polling rate issues
11:02:15LinusNkurzhaarrocker: thanks
11:02:48dwihnoLinusN: What is next on your roadmap?
11:04:07LinusNhard disk, serial port and flashing
11:04:31amiconnLinusN: Yes indeed. I wonder whether I would be able to see this when hooking up the demand pin to my scope (I only have an analog scope)
11:04:40LinusNit will ultimately end up in a boot loader
11:05:53LinusNmight be hard with an analog scope
11:07:20LinusNamiconn: did you have any luck with the rs232 converter?
11:07:41amiconnDid not yet use it; too much Ondio work...#
11:08:03amiconnI intend to work on player flashing as soon as the Ondio dust settles
11:08:46amiconnThe stuttering MPEG2.5 layer 3 VBR playback may be solvable with adjusting the postpone time, however, this means that the postpone time will have to be variable
11:09:40amiconnAnd: it might be we need a similar mechanism for the player, to fix the layer 2 issue
11:10:15amiconnInteresting detail: The archos player firmware doesn't support layer 2 at all (unlike the recorder & ondio versions)
11:10:29LinusN:-)
11:11:20[IDC]Dragonamiconn: I forgot to mention, a while ago I measured the selects with the Archos Ondio firmware
11:11:45[IDC]Dragonthey use the MMC /CS on demand, like we do
11:11:58LinusNamiconn: have you tried to pause S/PDIF recording?
11:12:00[IDC]Dragonbut the LCD is selected all the time
11:12:22[IDC]Dragon(in turn, the tuner is not selected, unlike with Rockbox)
11:13:18amiconnLinusN: I didn't try paused recordings at all
11:15:12LinusNaccording to paul's latest email, he said it worked OK until he paused the recording
11:15:13kurzhaarrockerapropos spdif recording: yesterday I made a bunch of recordings using current build + triggered recording + spdif. Due to the trigger all files were < 9 min. None of them has audiable glitches.
11:15:26kurzhaarrocker(I didn't pause)
11:15:43amiconn[IDC]Dragon: So our power savings seem to result from the sleep instruction alone, which is a bit weird. The data sheet says there is a ~20 mA difference between active and sleeping.
11:15:51LinusNand he said "back to 2.2 again" as a result of that
11:16:05LinusNbut 2.2 DOESN'T HAVE PAUSE
11:16:18amiconnJust wanted to say that...
11:16:48Zagoramiconn: it would be interesting to decrease the value of HZ and see the change in power savings
11:17:14amiconn[IDC]Dragon: Or can it be that the lcd controller, being selected, adds that much to the power consumption?
11:17:36amiconnZagor: If I read the disasm correctly, archos uses 200 ticks per sec
11:17:59LinusNyes, but they don't sleep between ticks
11:18:13Zagorwe could probably live with 50 or even less
11:18:13amiconnyup, they don't sleep at all
11:18:15LinusNif we decrease HZ, the threads will sleep longer
11:18:48LinusNhow long between DEMAND interrupts?
11:18:53LinusN26ms?
11:19:05amiconnI'd rather not lower the value of HZ. The timing is relatively coarse already
11:19:17Zagortiming for what?
11:19:52amiconnScrolling etc.
11:20:09***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
11:20:15Zagormax scrolling frequency is 25 hz
11:20:25amiconnNo, it is 33 Hz
11:20:49Zagorok it changed again. it's way faster than readable anyway :)
11:21:20amiconnIt's perfectly readable when you use 1 pixel steps
11:21:20Zagoranyway, i'll play a bit with it some day
11:21:36Zagornot on my screen. it becomes very fuzzy.
11:21:53amiconnI'd like to add some clever mechanism to the MMC driver, making it watching its own performance, and switch to "nasty" mode (not yielding for a couple of blocks) if it gets too slow because the other thrreads don't yield often enough
11:22:21Zagoris that really happening?
11:22:24amiconnHowever, this is where the 10 ms are *very* coarse; transferring 1 block from mmc is ~1.7 ms
11:23:25amiconnYes, it does happen, observed with the mandelbrot plugin, which (knowingly) yields once per tick when it is busy
11:23:44 Nick Zagor is now known as Zagor|lunch (~bjst@labb.contactor.se)
11:24:46LinusNuuuh, the FLAC code uses floating point...
11:26:12[IDC]Dragonamiconn: I don't think the selected LCD draws significant power
11:27:06[IDC]Dragonwould be a bad feature for a mobile phone display
11:27:16amiconnYeah, I don't really think that it does, but the power consumption differences *must* be caused by something after all...
11:27:51amiconnIs there a way to completely disable the sleep mode in rockbox, for an experiment?
11:28:41kurzhaarrockerHas the Release Day (TM) been specified already?
11:28:55LinusNamiconn: easy
11:29:07LinusNkurzhaarrocker: not really
11:30:14kurzhaarrockerI assume that means Release Day != today?
11:30:32amiconnShouldn't that already have been yesterday? Okay, I know that it was postponed...
11:30:36LinusNamiconn: comment out the "while(num_sleepers..." in switch_thread()
11:31:31amiconnOkay. I think I'll try that in the evening
11:37:56amiconn[IDC]Dragon: Did you do some power measurements with your ondio fm?
11:38:10[IDC]Dragonsorry, still not
11:38:20[IDC]Dragonbut I can do it this evening
11:38:39[IDC]DragonI once made a "deep sleep" experimental plugin
11:39:00amiconnWhat does that do?
11:39:18[IDC]Dragonjust to see how low it can go, it disables all interrupts and sleeps
11:39:42[IDC]Dragonof course you have to reboot after that
11:40:52 Join kurzhaarrocker_ [0] (~knoppix@p5087708C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
11:41:10[IDC]Dragonall my "nice" test plugins are not built any more, since we have SOURCES
11:41:44 Quit kurzhaarrocker (Nick collision from services.)
11:41:48[IDC]DragonI should place a "*.C" wildcard there, and rename my files
11:42:02 Nick kurzhaarrocker_ is now known as kurzhaarrocker (~knoppix@p5087708C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
11:42:14[IDC]Dragonor something similar, so I don't have to specify each
11:42:45amiconnI only put my test plugins in when I need them to test something. Usually I don't want them, and building them always wastes time
11:42:59[IDC]Dragonmy PC is fast
11:43:06amiconnPlus, I have some that require an adapted api.
11:43:47amiconnMy laptop is considered fast too, still building rockbox takes some time. Every plugin adds to that
11:44:04amiconnYou could add a "test_*.c" wildcard
11:48:45[IDC]Dragonyes, perhaps something like that
11:49:16[IDC]Dragonwould be nice in the official build, so I don't need to locally branch SOURCES
11:57:37kurzhaarrockerDoes anybody know what happens when the sample frequency in the spdif stream changes while recording?
11:58:15LinusNyou will lose sync for a second or two, but i think the MAS can handle it
11:58:51amiconn...and the file may not play correctly after the change point, until you split it
11:59:54LinusNsample rate changes in an mp3 stream is definitely not recommended
12:00
12:00:06kurzhaarrocker:)
12:00:22LinusNstill, the mas handles it pretty well
12:01:10amiconnYes, the mas does. Other players may not.
12:02:16*kurzhaarrocker wonders if a compression algorithm could be developed that utilizes dynamically adopted sample frequencies...
12:43:43 Join edx [0] (edx@p54879A6D.dip.t-dialin.net)
12:44:05 Nick Zagor|lunch is now known as Zagor (~bjst@labb.contactor.se)
12:57:39 Quit AciD (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
12:58:28 Join AciD [0] (~gni@longchamp44-1-82-67-133-87.fbx.proxad.net)
12:59:09Zagorreview please: http://www.rockbox.org/download/rockbox-2.3-notes.txt
12:59:26amiconnZagor: Got my answer regarding yield and the mmc driver?
13:00
13:00:30Zagoryes
13:03:43kurzhaarrockerDo you really want to mention the screen shot feature buried in the debug menu for the public morons?
13:04:06Zagorhmm, probably not
13:04:39*kurzhaarrocker smells "Help, my usb doesn't work any more" calls.
13:04:52Bagderwell, its only mentioned it doesn't say how to use it
13:05:44Zagorkurzhaarrocker: why?
13:05:52Bagderyou could mention the new domain more explicitly
13:06:11amiconnZagor: My remarks: (1) Correct full names for Ondio: "Ondio 128", "Ondio 128 FM Recorder", "Ondio 128 SP". (2) screenshot feature is dev-only, imho. (3) The credits are missing the last 10 (!) additions
13:06:21BagderZagor: when they activate the screen dump feture
13:06:27Zagori just added the credits
13:06:45Zagor"SP and FM" removed
13:07:36ZagorBagder: ah. well i'm removing the screenshot mention
13:07:53LinusN"delete directories" -> "delete directories recursively"
13:08:10Bagderboth are new, aren't they?
13:09:20LinusNyes, i just wanted to point out that it is recursive
13:09:28Bagderok
13:10:04amiconn[IDC]Dragon: Regarding my battery level adjustments: My Ondio even runs down to ~2.4 V, but when running from alkalines, the voltage may drop below that *within seconds* once it is below 2.7 V
13:10:09BagderZagor: I think you could put more names on each line in the credits section
13:10:19Zagorgood point
13:10:48kurzhaarrockerSorry, you've already got all the names I have :)
13:12:09kurzhaarrockerWere the config, firmware, wps... browsers present in 2.2 already?
13:12:15LinusNmaybe mention something about rombox?
13:12:23kurzhaarrockerit is mentioned
13:12:26Zagor"- Rombox, optionally saving ~170KB RAM by running code from flash"
13:12:47LinusNdoh
13:12:57kurzhaarrockerDid the video have sound in V2.2?
13:13:55amiconnGrayscale is not mentioned...
13:14:20Zagorkurzhaarrocker: yes, audio was added feb 5
13:14:39kurzhaarrockerok
13:14:43BagderI think we should mention the new plugins by name. It'll look cooler I think
13:17:11LinusN"new look on the WPS progress bar"
13:17:38ZagorLinusN: I had that at first, but it fell below the significance treshold :)
13:17:53LinusNfaster scrolling in the file list
13:18:19Bagder2.3 fonts are incompatible with the 2.2 format
13:18:38LinusNany new languages?
13:18:46amiconnWay faster button handling in general
13:20:12***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
13:23:07Zagorcrapola, the list of new plugins got quite long...
13:23:42Zagori need to split off the ones that require bitmap lcd
13:24:25LinusN"Windows installer"
13:27:00amiconnZagor: On+Play description is slightly incorrect. On+Play itself is a post-2.2 feature
13:27:30amiconnAh, forget it
13:27:34Zagor:)
13:28:03*amiconn didn't read thoroughly enough
13:37:47[IDC]Dragonthe release notes are quite compact
13:37:59[IDC]Dragonwhat have we done all these month?
13:38:30Bagdereeeeh... uuuh... I did pong! ;-P
13:38:32LinusNconst policing
13:38:39dwihnorombox!
13:38:46amiconnCountless bugfixes...
13:39:00 Join R3nTiL [0] (~zorroz@193-250-30-217.kgts.ru)
13:39:10*[IDC]Dragon provoked
13:39:11amiconn...speed tweaking (lcd, mem, swap, ata)...
13:39:21dwihnotrue
13:39:46LinusNbroke the s/pdif recording...
13:39:48dwihnoThat should be mentioned in the release notes
13:39:50LinusN:-)
13:40:18dwihno* Linus broke spdif recording (he blames Zagor)
13:40:19[IDC]Dragonso we're accepting that for 2.3?
13:40:24amiconns/pdif recording works for me, with the occasional bad frames as usual
13:40:29LinusNi blame amiconn
13:41:36*amiconn just realizes that he deleted his alternative recording transfer routines :(
13:43:49Zagor[IDC]Dragon: yes, since we have no fix in sight
13:44:20[IDC]Dragon:(
13:45:30amiconnLinusN: I also tried recording with the original C transfer routines, with identical results
13:45:35[IDC]DragonZagor: (release notes) perhaps capitalize JPEG
13:46:02Zagorok
13:46:47[IDC]DragonRombox is also not avail. for Ondio FM
13:47:18Zagoronly for rec v1 & v2, right?
13:47:42[IDC]Dragonand Ondio SP
13:47:47Zagoroh
13:48:47*Bagder is off
13:49:39amiconnYeah. I have 1.845 MB buffer on my SP (set max files in dir to 100, and max playlist size to 1000)
13:50:16[IDC]Dragonhow do you fit 1000 songs on it?
13:51:00amiconnIt's the smallest possible setting (it in-/decrements by 1000)
13:51:04Zagorthose values should probably be lower by default on ondio than the others
13:51:24[IDC]Dragongrowing with MMC availability...
13:52:00amiconn1000 songs is barely possible with an 1 GB MMC (3 minute songs @ crappy 128 kbps)
13:52:32amiconnGrr, wrong. It' 1000 minutes
13:52:38amiconn*it's
13:52:50[IDC]Dragonthe Ondio doesn't really benefit from larger buffer
13:53:01[IDC]Dragonso I didn't care
13:53:01Zagortrue
13:53:33[IDC]Dragonit boots a bit faster from Rombox, that's the fun about it
13:56:03amiconn[IDC]Dragon: Did you try to build an Ondio sim? I did... no working keys ?!?
13:56:33[IDC]Dragonno, I didn't
13:58:52[IDC]Dragondo we have directory creation in the UI?
13:59:00Zagoryes
13:59:56[IDC]Dragonthen it's missing in the release notes, or did we have it in 2.2 ?
14:00
14:00:03ZagorI think we had it
14:00:12Zagordidn't see it in the commits
14:00:40amiconnBagder: I possibly found a problem with the simulator builds: The dependency of the plugins from plugin.h seems to be not recognized, i.e. no recompiled plugins with a new plugin.h
14:00:48Zagorwhat is the difference btwn ondio 128 and ondio 128 sp?
14:01:03[IDC]Dragonsp has no tuner and no recording
14:01:03amiconnOndio 128 == Ondio 128 FM recorder
14:01:09Zagorok
14:01:42amiconn(probably archos changes it to ...FM recorder to distinguish from the SP, which came later)
14:06:50 Quit R3nTiL ()
14:12:30Zagoranyone want to give a go at upgrading the windows installer script for ondio?
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14:14:07elinenbeLinusN: nice commits.
14:14:23elinenbethe iriver is coming along nicely, huh?
14:16:26[IDC]DragonI now have the 2.3 contribution charts:
14:16:41[IDC]Dragon#1 Linus with 319 commits
14:16:52[IDC]Dragon#2 Jens with 190
14:17:09[IDC]Dragon#3 me with 153
14:17:22[IDC]Dragon#4 Daniel, 92
14:17:34[IDC]Dragon#5 Bj÷rn, 60
14:17:47[IDC]Dragon#6 Henrik, 22
14:17:59[IDC]Dragon#7 Hardeep, 15
14:18:10amiconnOoops. I didn't really expect having contributed *that* much, concerning that I came "to the club" relatively late...
14:18:11Zagor:)
14:18:19[IDC]Dragon#8 MatsL, 11
14:18:34[IDC]Dragon#9 Kjell, 9
14:18:44[IDC]Dragon#10 Zakk, 7
14:18:55[IDC]Dragon#11 Quelsaruk, 3
14:19:15[IDC]Dragon(end of cvs contributors)
14:19:15#>>"seen" used by Zagor (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) [snoop prevented]
14:20:10LinusNI WON!!!!!
14:20:40[IDC]Dragonof yourse this doesn't count the significance of a commit, nor how many files involved, nor how much changed
14:20:55elinenbeagain Linus is macing the daddy!
14:23:42[IDC]Dragonamiconn: the many Ondio commits pushed us up
14:28:32kurzhaarrockerDon't give me cvs access! I'd only do as stuid things as commit triggered recording and maybe mix it up with triggered charging or something.
14:29:12[IDC]Dragon@haxx: what are you doing in france, if I may ask?
14:29:25Zagorcompany-internal conference
14:30:12[IDC]Dragonwhat company?
14:30:18ZagorContactor
14:30:29[IDC]Dragonthey're in france, too?
14:30:53Zagorno, we're all in sweden. we just go there to have a good time while "conferencing".
14:31:04Zagornice
14:31:08Zagorverb
14:31:21LinusN"playing petanque under the olive trees"
14:31:26Zagorhaha
14:31:38[IDC]Dragonnice company
14:31:54elinenbemy favorite commit
14:32:02elinenbewas Hardeep's one!
14:32:56[IDC]Dragonuski's parents have a nice house down there, for vacation rental
14:33:29LinusNmy parents live in france
14:34:02kurzhaarrockerFrance? That's old europe, isn't it? :)
14:34:49Zagorthere's a newer version?
14:35:00kurzhaarrockerlol
14:35:05Zagorhttp://www.rockbox.org/download/index2.html
14:35:08Zagorgo/no go?
14:35:42LinusNhow about languages?
14:35:56Zagorcrappo, forgot those. yeah, we want them.
14:35:57kurzhaarrockerthere's a download link
14:36:24Zagorkurzhaarrocker: yeah but we got a few patches that we want in the .zips
14:36:38kurzhaarrockerok
14:40:07kurzhaarrockerhm. There's doku for the spliteditor in the wiki but not in the manual. How do I get it in?
14:41:37Zagortalk to christi
14:43:11[IDC]Dragondo you want to state the recording problem as a known bug?
14:43:57Zagorwell we don't even know what the problem is. paul is now hiting at the pause function, which turns all our previous theories on their heads
14:44:07Zagorhinting
14:45:05[IDC]Dragonwhat's the problem with the Windows installer for Ondio?
14:45:20Zagorit simply hasn't been done
14:45:36*[IDC]Dragon never looked into it
14:45:36Zagorand the script is not so obvious that I want to wing it
14:46:08[IDC]Dragonis the stuff in cvs? could I reproduce it?
14:46:35Zagornot yet
14:47:16kurzhaarrockerI wonder wether the table with download targets should feature 2 rows. That single row is a bit long.
14:47:42Zagorreally? it's <800 px on my screen
14:47:54[IDC]Dragonand the captions are jumping up and down
14:47:54Zagorthe daily page is wider
14:48:46[IDC]DragonI need 1211 py to fully see it
14:48:54*kurzhaarrocker too
14:49:00[IDC]Dragons/py/pixels
14:49:13Zagorwhich browser is that?
14:49:20kurzhaarrockerNetscape
14:49:28midki use firefox, it's really wide
14:50:13[IDC]Dragonfirefox here, precisely 1216 pixels before the scrollbar goes away
14:50:28Zagoroh, crappy mozilla doesn't wrap links :(
14:50:48Zagormozilla and ie does. oh, well i'll break it in two rows
14:51:05kurzhaarrockerWith ie I can squeeze it small but at the expense of wrapped links.
14:51:09Zagoropera and ie, i mean
14:51:14[IDC]Dragonseems to be a firefox problem
14:51:24kurzhaarrockerand Netscape
14:51:29Zagori.e. mozilla
14:52:07[IDC]Dragonwith 725 pixel it's enough for IE
14:53:11[IDC]Dragonmozilly doesn't wrap links, so they spawn it
14:53:46*kurzhaarrocker fetches a chainsaw for chopping links
14:54:23amiconnTalking about the download page, i.e. http://www.rockbox.org/download/ ? It's ~880 px window width for me, with Mozilla
14:54:23kurzhaarrockerah, 2 rows are much better :)
14:54:41Zagoramiconn: append index2.html
14:55:30amiconnOkay... 2 rows already
14:58:11elinenbeLinusN: are you going to build grayscale into the drive?
14:58:16elinenbeLinusN: are you going to build grayscale into the LCD driver?
14:58:31LinusNyes, eventually
14:59:10LinusNbut we'll use monochrome for now, as the rest of rockbox isn't grayscale anyway
14:59:30elinenbefabulous.... what number of shades does the iriver have?
14:59:42Zagorelinenbe: now is your chance to show off your mad icon drawing skillz
14:59:56LinusNelinenbe: 4
15:00
15:00:16LinusNor rather white, black and 2 shades of gray between
15:00:32elinenbethat opens a lot of possibilities though...
15:01:11elinenbeand if [IDC]Dragon and amiconn get around to writing a grayscale routine for that then I would expect 65thousand colors possible? :)
15:01:19LinusNfading peak meters...
15:01:25kurzhaarrockerargh
15:01:52LinusNfireworks
15:01:55dwihnoantialised fonts!!! :)
15:01:59*dwihno waits for the boo:ing
15:02:06kurzhaarrockerWell, I expect that we don't have to poll for peaks
15:02:10LinusN /kick dwihno
15:02:23dwihno /love @ all :)
15:02:39LinusNkurzhaarrocker: no, we have to calculate the sound energy ourselves from the wav output
15:03:29Bagdermulticolor fonts will be cool
15:03:30kurzhaarrocker... which could be the perfect plugin point for recording triggers :)
15:04:02Zagorbpm calculation opens fun new possibilities
15:04:39kurzhaarrockeroh no, please not another zillion sound controlled screen savers.
15:04:55Bagderhehe
15:05:01Bagderuseless stuff is the best!
15:05:06Zagorhow about automatic beat mixing?
15:05:39kurzhaarrockerZagor: you should store the bpms in the db right away :)
15:05:53Zagorof course just pulsing the backlight in beat to the music is fun too
15:06:08Zagorkurzhaarrocker: :)
15:06:31ZagorLinusN: those were all the language update, right?
15:06:39LinusNi think so
15:06:41kurzhaarrockerBefore we make rockbox a light show we should think about an epilepsie disclaimer.
15:07:06LinusNhow many languages are incomplete?
15:07:29Zagormost
15:07:34LinusN:-(
15:08:02Zagormaybe we should add a matrix to the web site showing this, it could encourage more contributions
15:08:03Bagderwe should make a script that shows language "completeness"
15:08:08Bagderhah
15:08:13Zagor:)
15:08:16BagderI said it first!
15:08:22Zagornot in my window :)
15:09:57Zagorok, release updated. anyone opposing a go?
15:10:14Bagderlinus just added a name to the credits
15:10:27kurzhaarrockerno
15:10:27*kurzhaarrocker cries silently: no triggered recording yet
15:10:55[IDC]Dragonsave it for 2.4, in a week or two
15:11:03kurzhaarrocker:)
15:11:03[IDC]Dragon;-)
15:11:08Zagortwo months
15:12:17ZagorBagder: i'm adding him to the release notes, but i don't want to rebuild all the targets :(
15:12:28kurzhaarrockerIn two months will be xmas and the 1st anniversary of the trigger code
15:12:37LinusNZagor: you're lazy
15:18:13LinusNi think having your name in the firmware is a nice ego boost, so Jiri will probably thank you for recompiling the release
15:19:10[IDC]Dragonmaybe it doesn't fit Rombox any more then...
15:19:18Zagor:)
15:19:40ZagorI'll just have to make a release-compilation script
15:20:16***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
15:24:01[IDC]Dragonwith a cron job, set to 2 month
15:24:09kurzhaarrockerlol
15:24:17Zagorhehe
15:24:42[IDC]Dragonso we can enjoy x mas vacation while Rockbox is auto-released
15:25:21kurzhaarrockeranother cron job has to anounce feature freeze and lock the cvs then.
15:25:29BagderI'll setup the fix-bugs cron job too, so that we don't have to do that manually
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15:25:57[IDC]Dragonand an IRC job
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15:26:07iRivermanhi
15:26:47Bagderhi
15:29:54dwihnohello, iRiverman
15:31:39iRivermanhi
15:31:48iRivermani read the lcd driver is working on the iriver now
15:32:11Bagderthere's even photographic proof
15:32:22iRivermanyea i saw
15:32:26iRivermanhas the rockbox logo on it
15:32:33iRivermanthere is one thing im concered about
15:32:44G_damn, that is pretty god damn fast
15:32:47 Nick G_ is now known as thegeek (G@ti521110a080-0881.bb.online.no)
15:33:03iRivermanhow would u get back to iriver firmware if rockbox crashed?
15:33:15iRivermansince the iriver is software-driven?
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15:33:23LinusNiRiverman: this is the plan:
15:33:28LinusN:-)
15:33:37Zagorhaha
15:33:41thegeekread the wiki;)
15:33:47Bagderhow would u get back to #rockbox if your client crashed? ;-)
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15:34:01irivermansorry about that
15:34:05LinusNiRiverman: this is the plan:
15:34:11irivermanoh yea?
15:34:23LinusNthe first step is to develop a boot loader
15:34:27irivermanall i want is improved playlist handling
15:34:47LinusNthis loader is then put in flash together with the original firmware
15:35:14irivermanoh right
15:35:21irivermanso its just a case of selecting an option?
15:35:44LinusNwhen the player is powered on, the boot loader checks for a button, let's say the joystick
15:35:44kurzhaarrockerrockbox won't patch the original firmware of the iriver, it'll be a replacement
15:36:00LinusNif the joystick is held during startup, the original firmware is run
15:36:10LinusNelse rockbox is loaded from disk and run
15:36:11irivermanoh right i see
15:36:21irivermanim looking forward to see rockbox run on the iriver
15:36:39[IDC]Dragonsigh
15:36:40irivermandoes the 110, 120 and 140 all have the same hardware?
15:36:51Zagorapart from the memory size, yes
15:36:54LinusNi know that the 100 is different
15:37:10irivermanim glad i didn't buy an ipod
15:37:15LinusNbut the 120 and 140 should be very similar
15:37:18irivermanyea
15:37:23irivermanjust different colours and HD capacity
15:37:42thegeekand slightly different casing;)
15:37:44iriverman:)
15:37:55irivermani wish there was a docking station for the iriver
15:38:17thegeekyou could build one
15:38:19irivermani suppose u could make ur own with the USB plug in the correct place
15:38:24thegeeklike the misticriver forum guys
15:38:30thegeek;)
15:38:33irivermanyea thats what i meant, the only thing it couldn't do is charge like the ipod's dock
15:39:23irivermanunless u build a dock with the usb and charger plugs in the right place
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15:40:43irivermanI just wondered if the iriver could do timestretching?
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15:42:52[IDC]Dragoniriverman: stop asking in stone-age like "when will my car have air conditioning?"
15:43:49irivermanpardon?
15:43:54irivermanwas just a simple question
15:44:06[IDC]Dragonyes, but ages too early
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15:44:52Zagorthere, a nice build-release script.
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15:44:54*Zagor annouces 2.3
15:44:54LinusNkurzhaarrocker: no, it doesn't make me code faster :-)
15:44:54LinusNand nobody throws working jukeboxes at me, only broken ones :-(
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15:45:40*Zagor almost forgot to tag
15:45:46LinusNwooo
15:49:16*LinusN spots a "v2_3" tag in CVS
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15:57:53LinusNgotta go, cu guys
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16:00
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16:05:23amiconnZagor: Where's the windows installer script? I could take a look at it...
16:05:46[IDC]DragonI was asking that, too ;-)
16:06:15[IDC]DragonZagor is beyond out current split
16:06:24[IDC]Dragonour
16:06:41amiconnI wonder why freenode does split that often...
16:07:45[IDC]DragonI have no clue, TCP/IP works for other applications
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16:09:13kurzhaarrockerbtw: what happened to the T-Shirt contest? :)
16:10:13amiconnZagor: Got my question? (freenode is instable once more, grr)
16:10:33Zagorno I missed it
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16:13:08amiconn16:05:12] <amiconn> Zagor: Where's the windows installer script? I could take a look at it...
16:13:29Zagori'll publish it, hang on
16:16:55[IDC]Dragoniirc, the Windows installer could have a potential problem with the plugins
16:17:27Zagorwhy?
16:17:28[IDC]DragonI remember Christi was stunbling over the flash plugins, which vary per platform.
16:17:59Zagorother plugins do too
16:18:05[IDC]DragonI don't know if she made special cases for those now, or systematically checks them all
16:18:18amiconnIirc Christi fixed that. That solutions should work for the others too
16:18:57[IDC]Dragonok, because the Ondio plugins are all ninary different
16:19:24[IDC]Dragonbinary different, from the recorder counterparts
16:20:56Zagorhttp://bjorn.haxx.se/innosetup.zip
16:21:16Zagori'm not 100% sure that's all you need though
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16:42:30[IDC]Dragonamiconn: looks like the script is not for us Windows lamers
16:43:15[IDC]Dragonbut it does look relatively easy to extend, see "src\build_installer"
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18:05:15MoGle3you guys still need broken iriver? cos theres one in the post to you
18:05:32MoGle3expect it next week
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19:43:59[IDC]Dragonamiconn: r u there?
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20:02:58amiconnyup
20:05:07[IDC]Dragonmy Ondio is a nasty powersucker
20:05:39amiconnIt is?
20:05:41[IDC]Dragonnow I know why it gets warm
20:05:49[IDC]Dragontakes ~250 mA
20:06:43amiconnWow! At what voltage? This is 2..3 times as much as mine
20:06:53[IDC]Dragonat 4.6V
20:07:14amiconnAnd it goes up further when you reduce the voltage?
20:07:29[IDC]DragonI think Archos has a QA problem with the DC/DC converter
20:07:38[IDC]Dragontesting...
20:08:18amiconnI observed the typical behaviour of a switching converter with constant load - U * I ~ const
20:08:31[IDC]Dragonno, stays constant
20:08:55amiconnStrange.
20:09:07[IDC]Dragonshould normally go higher, since it sucks constant power
20:09:46[IDC]Dragoncan you do me a favour and hook up yours open, to check some signals per scope?
20:09:49amiconnMaybe the oscillator does not oscillate, so it works somewhat like a linear regulator?
20:10:18[IDC]DragonI see oscillations at the coil, but no more than that
20:10:39amiconnOr even worse, it only serves as a series resistor for some (hopefully) voltage limiting circuit?
20:10:54amiconnHmm.
20:11:06amiconnSure I can try to check.
20:11:28amiconnSeems you have got the same problem as Toni
20:11:50[IDC]Dragonnot that bad, but similar
20:12:01[IDC]Dragonmaybe we can find a fix
20:12:30[IDC]Dragonthe large minimelf diode seems to carry no current
20:13:05[IDC]Dragonbecause I only measure DC across it, higher than the forward voltage
20:13:26amiconnThe beast is now open.
20:14:18[IDC]DragonI already soldered a capacitor across the supply, at the board, to rule out the DC/DC doesn't like long inductive supply cables
20:15:00amiconnI always ran my box from batteries, except for the power measurements. I used no capacitor for this.
20:15:31*[IDC]Dragon prints the datasheet
20:17:44[IDC]Dragonno, I rather leave it open on screen
20:19:08amiconnI can measure a square wave of around 500 kHz at the top end of the coil, with significant harmonics. peak-peak voltage around 6 V
20:20:21[IDC]Dragontop end? towards the screen?
20:20:32[IDC]DragonI measure a calm 3 V there, no AC
20:20:51[IDC]Dragonthe bottom end oscillates
20:20:56amiconnYes, towards the screen
20:21:45[IDC]Dragonand the bottom pin?
20:22:18amiconnLower end is dc only
20:23:31amiconnNot pure dc, actually there is the 500 kHz too, but very faint, with ~30 mV p-p, sawtooth shaped
20:23:50[IDC]Dragonquite the opposite here
20:24:17[IDC]DragonI measure 2.6V DC at the top, with a faint ripple
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20:25:49amiconnDC value is 3.25 V at both ends
20:27:59[IDC]Dragonthe lower end is a square wave, maybe 600 kHz, more high than low, PWM depending on input voltage
20:28:16[IDC]Dragonhigh level about 3.3 V
20:28:40[IDC]Dragonwhat do you get at the diode?
20:28:58amiconnUpper end of coil (to screen): lower level of square wave is ~ -1 V, upper level ~ + 5 V, duty cycle is ~75 % (no varying input voltage)
20:30:36[IDC]Dragonoh, I just noticed I get AC on the upper end, too, if input voltage is high enough
20:31:12amiconnDiode: kathode has DC ~4.3 V, faint 500 kHz ripple ( ~40 mV p-p, half-sine shaped)
20:32:20[IDC]Dragonif supply is >4.6V, the lower coil pin is DC (high), and the upper shows pulses
20:32:24amiconnAnode has 0 V, with a unmeasurably low ripple
20:33:04[IDC]Dragonsame here
20:33:29[IDC]Dragonthe diode is insulating all the time, not used for the converter
20:33:43amiconnSeems so.
20:34:22[IDC]Dragoncan you vary the input, to see if you also get such effect?
20:35:13amiconnHmm, I can try. I'm a bit short of space on my table; have to fit both the scope and the ps...
20:35:49Thor_vom_Hammeryou need a digital scope.. its smaller.. :-)
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20:36:18amiconnDomonoky: my scope *is* relatively small...
20:37:09Domonokyso you need a bigger table.. *joking*.. :-)
20:37:24[IDC]Dragonmy g/f is coming home any minute, I may have to continue later
20:40:50[IDC]Dragonbbl
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22:26:27Plughcongrats on the release
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22:54:40amiconnhi again...
22:54:49[IDC]Dragonhello
22:55:11[IDC]DragonI was busy with other things meanwhile
22:55:22[IDC]Dragonjust catching up again
22:56:09amiconnI did some more detailed measurements meanwhile, and hacked together a little table: amiconn.dyndns.org/OndioPower.html">http://amiconn.dyndns.org/OndioPower.html
22:56:39[IDC]Dragonoh, very nice!
22:57:08amiconnThe behaviour is obvious when you read the data sheet, as the LT3440 is a combined buck/boost converter
22:57:29[IDC]DragonI just saw from the datasheet that it's a buck/boost converter
22:57:40[IDC]Dragonso we see a crossover point
22:58:04[IDC]Dragonthe switching looks perfect here, very steep edges
22:58:06amiconnIt also features synchronous rectification, so no diodes required for operation
22:58:22[IDC]Dragonso I wonder why the chip dissipates so much power
22:58:47[IDC]Dragon(the chip irself gets warm)
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23:00:38amiconnIt shouldn't, at least not significantly. There are only switching parts in it.
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23:01:36iRivermanhiya
23:03:34iRivermanWhat is everyones view on the iriver joystick?
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23:05:47teejayHello?
23:05:47amiconn[IDC]Dragon: When I try to check with my finger whether the chip gets warm, the unit switches off...
23:06:24[IDC]Dragondon't touch pin 9, that's the sensitive feedback
23:06:33[IDC]Dragonhappens here, too
23:06:50[IDC]Dragonbefore, I see strange effects in the display
23:06:52teejayThis may be the wrong forum for this, but I have a studio 20 and was wondering if a direct HD switchout to a bigger one will work?
23:07:12[IDC]Dragonteejay: yes, it will
23:07:28amiconn[IDC]Dragon: Yes, the display either fades, or gets black where it should be clear
23:07:42teejayGreat. I appreciate your help.
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23:09:29amiconn[IDC]Dragon: My regulator chip doesn't get significantly warm. Perhaps I could check some more signals?
23:14:21[IDC]DragonI don't know what else may be interesting
23:14:32[IDC]Dragonthe coil is the most important
23:14:58[IDC]DragonI see about the same patterns as in your table
23:15:27amiconnThe most visible harmonics have a frequency of around 16 MHz
23:15:33[IDC]DragonI can only imagine that at some time the H-bridge shorts + and -
23:16:00amiconnThat seems to be the self resonance of the coil
23:16:12[IDC]Dragonan check for a supply ripple that may go in sync
23:16:14[IDC]Dragoncan
23:16:48amiconnI already though of the H bridge problem. That'd mean the chip itself is broken.
23:19:22*amiconn will, check, with ~1 ohm in series and the scope across that
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23:22:37amiconn450 kHz ripple is <10 mA p-p
23:22:59[IDC]Dragonat your resistor?
23:23:53amiconnAcross the resistor it's < 10 mV p-p, the resistor is 0.9 ohm (2x 1.8 ohm in parallel)
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23:26:02*[IDC]Dragon has to remove the capacitor
23:26:10amiconnHowever, there are are low-frequent peaks, around 125 Hz, which are 60 mA p-p (short bursts)
23:26:23amiconnI did not remove any part
23:26:41[IDC]Dragonthere's more capacitors on the board, so we may see only filtered remains of power ripple
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23:26:56amiconn[IDC]Dragon: yes of course.
23:27:21amiconnI suspect the low frequent peaks come from the timer tick waking up the cpu from sleep
23:27:40[IDC]DragonI have to remove the cap which I added, that's what I meant
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23:27:58amiconnah.
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23:29:17amiconnBtw: These large peaks suggest that the power savings with rockbox really result from utilizing the sleep mode
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23:34:14[IDC]DragonI see the 10 ms peaks, too
23:34:40[IDC]Dragonmaybe 80 mV high
23:35:38amiconnI tried to measure too. Average current is ~60 mA, with the peaks going up to 100 (and briefly down to 40). That is @ 3.9 V
23:36:37[IDC]DragonI have a ~50 mV noise floor
23:37:16amiconnWhen you procedd from the resume? request to the file browser, there are additional current peaks, at ~half second intervals.
23:38:24[IDC]Dragoninteresting: I now trigger on the coil, with the other channel
23:38:47[IDC]Dragonand see pretty steep current peaks I didn't see before
23:39:11[IDC]Dragon(probably it wasn't triggering on such short spikes)
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23:41:08amiconn[IDC]Dragon: That is while measuring current? How high are those current spikes?
23:41:26amiconnAnd: What frequency range?
23:41:44[IDC]Dragon200 mV, at each edge of the coil pulse
23:42:12[IDC]Dragon(now really stretching the 60 MHz scope)
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23:43:05[IDC]Dragonnot really a pulse, but a ringing that lasts ~50 ns
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23:47:48amiconn[IDC]Dragon: The current waveform does indeed look funny. Of course your should be able to see that much better than me, with my simple scope.
23:49:33[IDC]Dragondo you see it, too?
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23:51:36amiconnGrr, T-Offline
23:51:55[IDC]Dragon<[IDC]Dragon> do you see it, too?
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23:53:15amiconnSeems so, just tried to take a photo. Tricky while holding the trigger signal contact...
23:53:52[IDC]Dragongood idea
23:55:47amiconn10 ms peaks: amiconn.dyndns.org/CurrentPeaks.jpg">http://amiconn.dyndns.org/CurrentPeaks.jpg Current waveform (blurry) http://amiconn.dyndns.org/CurrentWaveform.jpg
23:58:28[IDC]Dragonhmm
23:58:59amiconnhmm?

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