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#rockbox log for 2004-11-30

00:00:23 Part GnagelRam
00:11:41***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:37:18 Quit AciD (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:59:47 Quit edx ()
01:00
01:00:22 Quit mecraw__ ("Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com)")
02:00
02:11:44***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
03:00
03:15:58 Part amiconn
03:19:28 Quit Seed (Nick collision from services.)
03:19:39 Join Seed [0] (ben@192.114.41.140)
03:23:47 Quit Seed (Nick collision from services.)
03:23:51 Join Seedy [0] (ben@192.114.41.140)
04:00
04:11:48***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
04:14:06 Quit midk (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
04:14:20 Join midk_ [0] (~midk@c66-235-14-120.sea2.cablespeed.com)
04:32:30 Quit Stryke` ("Friends don't let friends listen to Anti-Flag")
05:00
05:02:01 Join adi|work [0] (~chatzilla@host-64-179-64-21.alb.choiceone.net)
05:06:28 Nick adi|work is now known as adi|home (~chatzilla@host-64-179-64-21.alb.choiceone.net)
06:00
06:11:49***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
07:00
07:30:49 Join AciD [0] (~gni@acid.user)
07:41:59 Quit adi|home ("Chatzilla 0.9.66 [Mozilla rv:1.7.5/20041107]")
07:47:52 Join gromit`__ [0] (augej@ulysse.iiens.net)
07:48:13 Quit gromit`_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
08:00
08:11:51***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
08:17:54 Join LinusN [0] (~linus@labb.contactor.se)
08:30:34dwihnoGood morning
08:33:05dwihnoHas the charge-while-USB discussion gotten anywhere?
08:45:57 Join webguest83 [0] (~43658351@labb.contactor.se)
08:46:18 Part webguest83
08:52:08dwihnoBrowsing the website I see the e-mail address rockbox@cool.haxx.se on the features page. Just wanted you to know, since the domain change perhaps might have affected the address.
09:00
09:02:13 Join oxygen77 [0] (~Chris@pauguste-7-82-66-87-78.fbx.proxad.net)
09:02:42 Part oxygen77 ("Cho")
09:07:35LinusNdwihno: thanks for noticing
09:07:38 Join Bagder_ [0] (~daniel@1-1-5-26a.hud.sth.bostream.se)
09:07:42 Join amiconn [0] (~jens@pD95D1DC7.dip.t-dialin.net)
09:07:51 Join Zagor [242] (~bjst@labb.contactor.se)
09:08:14amiconnGood morning
09:08:46 Quit AciD (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
09:09:10 Join AciD [0] (~gni@longchamp44-1-82-67-133-87.fbx.proxad.net)
09:09:42dwihnoLinusN: If you're up to it, you could always merge a charge-while-usb patch ;)
09:10:31LinusNdwihno: i forgot, rockbox@cool.haxx.se is still the mailing list address
09:11:29LinusNmorning amiconn
09:11:38 Quit AciD (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
09:14:56dwihnoLinusN: ah, okay :)
09:20:17 Quit scott666_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
09:23:40 Quit Bagder (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
09:27:43 Join AciD [0] (~gni@acid.user)
09:47:16 Nick Bagder_ is now known as Bagder (~daniel@1-1-5-26a.hud.sth.bostream.se)
09:50:48dwihnoZagor, LinusN, Bagder, should the charging code always run when USB is connected?
09:51:22Zagordwihno: do you mean if the code is written that way today, or if we should write it that way?
09:58:20LinusNdwihno: no, it shouldn't always do it
09:58:45LinusNit depends on if the drive is spinning or not, which battery capacity you have, and the capacity of your charger
10:00
10:05:30dwihnoZagor: It should work that way. Otherwise, the battery will be depleted.
10:05:45dwihno(when being connected for an extended period of intensive file transfer)
10:06:25dwihnoLinusN: Do you think it is possible to write software which can charge the player in such a smart fashion?
10:07:08LinusNnop
10:07:10LinusNnope
10:07:30LinusNrockbox can't tell if the drive is spinning in usb mode
10:08:20LinusNhowever, we can charge more aggressively
10:08:22dwihnoLinusN: Using the current software, should I disable deep discharge to obtain the archos-fw behaviour?
10:08:37LinusNnever ever use deep discharge in usb mode
10:09:04Zagorwe should ignore the deep discharge flag during usb mode
10:09:26LinusNyes (maybe we already do that)
10:09:42dwihnoIs there anything else one could do?
10:09:45LinusNwe should really look into the charging
10:10:10Zagoryes, it needs a major overhaul
10:10:51dwihnoalong with the ui
10:11:24Zagorwell at least we know what the charging code is supposed to look like :)
10:11:27*dwihno talks too much and codes too little ;)
10:11:54***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
10:12:54LinusNwe could at least start with tweaking the trickle intervals and the charging max-time
10:14:51dwihnoSince you guys know how the code is, is a major rewrite required in order to extend for, let's say color displays, gui widgets and so forth?
10:21:28Zagordefined "major" :-)
10:22:11Zagor"gui widgets" is rather general. just supporting colour icons instead of b/w isn't so hard, but replacing the menus with a mobile phone-style icon navigation system is more work.
10:29:06dwihnomhm
10:29:16dwihnoWith a bitmap display, that would be pretty neat
10:29:23dwihnoI see icons with text below
10:29:39dwihnoMuch like the menu systems on a cell phone, but a tad more sophisticated
10:49:44 Quit AciD (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
10:54:23 Join [IDC]Dragon [0] (~d90a3255@labb.contactor.se)
10:54:48amiconnLinusN: I found some problems with the buttons hooked up to the adc, at least on the player :(
10:55:33amiconnWhen cold-startet after a longer off period, I get spurious button-presses, much like those reported by various users on the ml
10:57:10amiconnThis goes away when the box is running for some time, even if I then shut it off for a short time and restart
10:59:59amiconnIt shows up in a way that, when I start the box and the leave the resume? request unanswered, it gets answered randomly, both yes or no are possible.
11:00
11:00:46amiconnThis can happen after some seconds, or may take more than a minute. If it doesn't resume, I even got random cursor movements in the browser
11:01:51amiconnI believe this has to do with the adc driver, but is covered for recorders by the debounce routine. There is no debounce for the player.
11:02:21amiconnHowever, the adc driver code does look 100% correct to me, checked several times...
11:02:51amiconnWe could add debounce for the player as well, but this would only be a symptom fix
11:03:27amiconnIt certainly has nothing to do with flash start, as it also happens when I boot rockbox through archos fw
11:07:31 Join AciD [0] (~gni@acid.user)
11:13:46 Quit gromit`__ (Remote closed the connection)
11:13:57 Join gromit`_ [0] (augej@ulysse.iiens.net)
11:14:47LinusNwe have a bug report on it too
11:15:14LinusNthe recorder debounce is a symptom fix too
11:16:41LinusNthe increased conversion rate catches short glitches more easily
11:16:52LinusNso debouncing is more necessary
11:18:15amiconnBut the glitch theory doesn't explain why the effect goes away when the box is running for some time...
11:27:09LinusNthe glitches come from voltage "dips", typically when the drive spins up
11:27:23LinusNin your case it may even be temperature dependent
11:37:35 Quit AciD (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
11:38:43amiconnLinusN: I don't know, but maybe this also changes when using adc single mode instead of scan mode. Old versions of the adc driver did this...
11:43:52amiconnI also found a weird thing in sh7034.h: It defines Port B data bits, unconditionally for all models. However, most of these are only valid on the recorder (and I think these definitions don't belong there at all?)
11:53:47LinusNthat's old stuff, i doubt that it is used
11:54:16 Join AciD [0] (~gni@acid.user)
11:56:58 Join webguest18 [0] (~d5ada302@labb.contactor.se)
11:57:06webguest18hi
11:58:16 Quit webguest18 (Client Quit)
11:58:58amiconnLinusN: At least PBDR_BTN_OFF and PBDR_BTN_ON are definitely used (in the recorder button driver)
12:00
12:07:05LinusNi think we should clean up in that "mess"
12:11:57***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
12:49:33 Join ripnetUK [0] (~mirc@82-70-100-230.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk)
12:49:54ripnetUKany news on the iRiver 'alter reset vector to point to button checking code' stuff?
13:00
13:00:58LinusNnope, i haven't had any time, sorry
13:05:21ripnetUKok... no need to apologise :)
13:07:00ripnetUKi wish i had a lot more 'play' time
13:08:35ripnetUKi guess there is nothing I can do to help until it can boot a file from hdd on a non-modified box... im hoping to get involved in Rockbox again then
13:09:25ripnetUKshould be good fun on a 120MHz processor
13:09:45ripnetUKim thinking maybe gameboy emulation
13:09:58LinusNwould be cool
13:10:24ripnetUKmy symbian phone (104MHz arm 7) can emu gameboy... not sure how coldfire stacks up against arm
13:10:48ripnetUKnot well is my guess :
13:17:31BagderI bet we'll find out
13:17:34Bagdereventually
13:26:10 Quit AciD (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
13:26:19 Join amiconn_ [0] (~jens@pD9E7ED29.dip.t-dialin.net)
13:43:40 Join AciD [0] (~gni@acid.user)
13:43:47 Quit amiconn (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
13:43:47 Nick amiconn_ is now known as amiconn (~jens@pD9E7ED29.dip.t-dialin.net)
14:00
14:12:00***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
14:41:07 Join MooMaunder [0] (~me@194.152.87.150)
14:54:55 Quit AciD (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
15:00
15:12:20 Join AciD [0] (~gni@acid.user)
15:25:19 Nick midk_ is now known as midk (~midk@c66-235-14-120.sea2.cablespeed.com)
15:28:49 Join ATDJ [0] (ju_@lns-vlq-37-lyo-82-253-104-102.adsl.proxad.net)
15:32:54amiconnLinusN: Do you think we should add the button debounce to the player button driver?
15:33:26LinusNyes
15:57:47 Join webguest70 [0] (~cf7ba710@labb.contactor.se)
16:00
16:03:06 Quit webguest70 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
16:12:01***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
16:13:09 Quit [IDC]Dragon ("CGI:IRC")
16:14:35 Join edx [0] (edx@pD9EABA20.dip.t-dialin.net)
16:20:37 Join leety-Aravil [0] (~Leety@pD9E4476E.dip.t-dialin.net)
16:21:55leety-Aravilhi
16:23:02LinusNhi
16:24:37 Quit _aLF (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
16:28:44leety-Aravilhat jemand ein Bild von dem Mod für die Paralelschaltung der Display LEDs?
16:41:03 Quit MooMaunder (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
16:45:15 Join mecraw__ [0] (~lmarlow@69.2.235.2)
16:48:11LinusNleety-Aravil: no i haven't
16:48:25LinusNi'll take some photos when i do it the next time
16:54:58amiconnleety-Aravil: Vielleicht kann ich heute welche machen (mal sehen, ob meine Digicam das schafft)
16:55:41leety-Aravildas wäre cool!
16:56:28amiconnLinusN: Any chance that you find some time to do tests on your oldplayer? I'd like to undo the uart boot mod and close my player again, but won't do so unless I'm sure the bootloader is done...
16:58:12leety-AravilWhat is an "boot mod"?
16:58:27amiconnWhen undoing the uart boot mod, I'll try to take photos as well
16:59:24LinusNamiconn: i'll try to find some time, but i'm really busy right now
16:59:42amiconnleety-Aravil: "boot mod" = "boot modification". Es gibt eine Möglichkeit, die Archos-Jukeboxen unabhängig vom Flash-ROM etc. mit einer kleinen im Boot-ROM eingebauten Routine über die serielle Schnittstelle zu booten.
17:00
17:00:20leety-Aravilwas bringt das?
17:01:17amiconnDamit kann man Jukeboxen mit "verflashtem" oder ganz leerem Flash-ROm "wiederbeleben". Unbedingt nötig zur Entwicklung des Flash-Bootloaders...
17:01:57 Quit AciD (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
17:02:19leety-Aravildann ist sozusagen die Rockbox direkt im Boot-rom und man braucht keinen extra ordner mehr für sie?
17:04:27amiconnDoch, den Ordner braucht man noch. Nur der "Kern" ist im Flash-ROM. Das spart das Laden von Platte -> schnellerer Start.
17:04:46leety-Aravilwie viel schneler?
17:10:08leety-AravilIch hab mir mal das Video vom Start angesehen und muss sagen das es das für den Aufwand nicht so bringt!
17:10:55amiconnHängt davon ab, welches Jukeboxmodell und welche Festplatte. Der Archos-Bootloader der Recorder-Modelle ist besonders lahm. Recorder ~12s -> ~4s
17:11:29amiconnPlayer ~9s -> ~5s (noch nicht veröffentlicht, aber lüppt schon ganz gut :) )
17:11:35leety-AravilIch finde den aufwand schon sehr groß!
17:12:21amiconnInwiefern? Für den User ist es eigentlich einfach (wenn das ROM flashbar ist).
17:12:54 Nick leety-Aravil is now known as leety-aravil^afk (~Leety@pD9E4476E.dip.t-dialin.net)
17:13:11leety-aravil^afkafk_bis ca. 18:20
17:24:35 Part Zagor
17:30:25 Part LinusN
17:37:26 Quit ripnetUK ()
18:00
18:04:36 Join methangas [0] (methangas@0x535c9fa4.virnxx10.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk)
18:12:04***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
18:13:08 Quit leety-aravil^afk (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
18:23:52 Join leety-aravil^afk [0] (~Leety@pD9E4476E.dip.t-dialin.net)
18:35:19leety-aravil^afkhi
18:35:33 Nick leety-aravil^afk is now known as leety-aravil (~Leety@pD9E4476E.dip.t-dialin.net)
18:35:38 Join Stryke` [0] (~Chairman8@resnet-241-86.resnet.UMBC.EDU)
18:35:44leety-aravilIch lese mir gerade was zum romfalshen duch!
18:36:11leety-aravilWie gesagt ist mein English zimlich schlecht: Second, you need an in-circuit programmable flash. Chances are about 85% that you have, but Archos also used an older flash chip which can't do the trick. You can find out via Rockbox debug menu, entry Hardware Info. If the flash info gives you question marks (Flash M=?? D=??), you're out of luck. The only chance then is to solder in the right chip (SST39VF020), at best with the firmware already
18:36:46leety-aravilHeißt das jetzt das wenn in der "hw info" angezeigt wird "flash M=?? D=??" kann man nicht flashen?
18:38:54amiconnJa, heißt es
18:39:14amiconn(leider)
18:39:44leety-aravildann hab kann ich das schon mal net machen!
18:39:49leety-aravilnaja
18:45:59leety-aravilworan kannich erkenne ob ich den Recorder mit USB 2.0 oder 1.1 habe?
18:46:09leety-aravilich hab nur 1.1 Treiber für Wundows installiert!
18:46:24leety-aravilIch hab Recorder Interface 2.1B
18:49:39amiconn(1) An der Aufschrift auf der Frontplatte ganz unten. Mine says "20 GB - USB 2.0 Hard Disk" (20 and 2.0 printed in red) (2) Daran, dass man für Windows 2000 oder XP keine extra Treiber braucht. (3) An der Geschwindigkeit!
18:49:55amiconnOoops, Denglish mix
18:50:49leety-aravilIch brauch bei meinen Mobo irgendwie schon extra treiber!
18:50:53leety-aravilIch hab so nur 1.1.!
18:51:15leety-aravilauf rockbox.org hab ich gelesen das die 15er aber 2.0 und 1.1 haben können!
18:51:56amiconnHat mit den Mainboardtreiber überhaupt nichts zu tun. Auch wenn das Mainboard nur USB1.1 kann, brauchen die USB2.0-Jukeboxen keinen Treiber
18:52:26leety-aravilja klar aber mein PC haut max. mit 1.1 geschwindigkeit raus!
18:52:28leety-aravil;D
18:53:09leety-aravilsind die Taster für z.B das Stererkreuz nur obendrauf gelötet oder gehen die Stifte duch die Platine duch?
18:53:12amiconnDas hat auch nichts mit USB1.1 oder 2.0 zu tun, sondern damit, dass die von Archos verwendete USB2.0-Bridge vollständig USB Mass Storage kompatibel ist, die USB1.1-Bridge hingegen nicht
18:53:50leety-aravilaxo
18:53:52leety-aravilups
19:00
19:23:03 Join Leety [0] (~Leety@pD9E4476E.dip.t-dialin.net)
19:41:26 Quit leety-aravil (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
19:50:19 Join oxygen77 [0] (~Chris@pauguste-7-82-66-87-78.fbx.proxad.net)
19:57:13 Join MikeW [0] (Mike@159-134-233-89.as1.cbr.castlebar.eircom.net)
19:57:24MikeWhello all
19:57:51 Join synku [0] (syntax@dyn-83-155-94-172.ppp.tiscali.fr)
19:57:57synkuho
19:58:53MikeWIm just wondering, has the physical ability to record from/output to optical been removed in the iriver H3XX?
20:00
20:00:35MikeWI think the coldfire supports spdif in/out, just wondering are there any parts preventing it
20:05:31 Join unibrain [0] (~Miranda@carlsberg.heim2.tu-clausthal.de)
20:05:31 Quit einhirn (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
20:06:24 Quit Leety (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
20:12:08***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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20:19:44 Quit unibrain (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
20:30:59 Quit leety-aravil (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
20:33:29 Quit MikeW ()
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20:48:44 Part oxygen77 ("Cho")
21:00
21:18:16 Join AciD [0] (~gni@acid.user)
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22:00:38 Join AciD [0] (~gni@acid.user)
22:09:11amiconnBagder: r u there?
22:12:11***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:00
23:02:18 Quit synku ("User")
23:04:15 Join kurzhaarrocker [0] (~none@c-134-120-237.d.dial.de.ignite.net)
23:30:11 Join amiconn_ [0] (~jens@pD9E7ED29.dip.t-dialin.net)
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23:30:52 Quit AciD (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
23:30:52NSplitniven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
23:42:44NHealniven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
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23:44:09 Quit AciD (Connection reset by peer)
23:45:34 Quit methangas (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Get hot chicks here!")
23:45:52amiconnAnybody here who owns an fm or v2 recorder and could do some tests for me?
23:54:03 Quit edx ()

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