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#rockbox log for 2005-01-05

00:00:33 Quit [IDC]Dragon (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:23:03 Join [IDC]Dragon [0] (~idc-drago@pD9FF8E6A.dip.t-dialin.net)
00:23:16[IDC]Dragonamiconn: I just coded the unmount
00:23:59amiconnNice :). I committed my rename safety measure, it does work correctly
00:24:19[IDC]Dragonit's a little bit more than just resetting the mounting flag: the fat cache gets flushed for that volume, too, and the fsinfo update
00:24:44[IDC]Dragonbut, what do we do if the MMC is ripped out? Those will fail
00:24:55amiconnI thought about having 2 methods to unmount, soft and hard
00:26:09amiconnThe soft variant (closing all files properly, with flushing) would be called before usb, and the hard variant (without flushing anything) for a ripped off MMC.
00:27:40[IDC]Dragonyes, that's good
00:28:06amiconnCould be a simple boolean parameter of the unmount function
00:28:45[IDC]Dragonplus an an invalidate function in dir.c and file.c
00:29:57***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:30:19amiconnFound your fat cache mutexing. Let's see if this improves anything, e.g. recording...
00:30:35[IDC]Dragonhard to test
00:30:41 Join PnkyChkn [0] (PnkyChkn@ACA9A775.ipt.aol.com)
00:31:04PnkyChknhi, anyone around?
00:31:10[IDC]Dragonyes
00:31:53PnkyChknHi there. I'm having a bit of a complicated issue with my studio 20. Think you might be able to help?
00:32:07amiconn[IDC]Dragon: Especially long-term recordings used to cause problems. I could run a test recording overnight
00:32:19PnkyChknActually it's more of a computer issue than an issue with my player...
00:33:49[IDC]Dragonamiconn: but linus said recording is done all from one tread?
00:33:59PnkyChknI'm trying to take the casing off of my Dell computer so I can load my player's hard drive into it, but there doesn't seem to be any kind of screw on the casing.....just holes.
00:34:19PnkyChknwondering if anyone has any experience with Dells?
00:34:29[IDC]Dragonnot me
00:34:46amiconnPnkyChkn: same here
00:37:14amiconn[IDC]Dragon: The recording risk with fat caching that Linus mentioned is Ondio only... no test case for me :(
00:38:52amiconnMaybe that this is (was?) the cause for the panic recfile -1 on Ondio though
00:39:25[IDC]Dragonhopefully
00:43:57amiconnWth does caching a dirty fat sector mean?
00:44:33[IDC]Dragondirty means it has been modified, but not written back
00:45:10amiconnYes, but when I cache the sector, i.e. read it from disk, it never will be dirty?
00:45:46[IDC]Dragonfreshly read, no, but the param indicates we will write to it
00:46:09amiconnAh, marking it dirty beforehand?
00:46:18[IDC]DragonI now put the marking in there, too
00:46:43 Join gedkc380 [0] (~gedkc380@0-3pool154-239.nas22.kansas-city2.mo.us.da.qwest.net)
00:46:54 Part gedkc380
00:47:05[IDC]Dragonbecause then the called needs no knowledge about the descriptor organisation, to mark it
00:47:47[IDC]Dragons/called/caller
00:48:30[IDC]Dragonit is also less code size, because the addressing is done already
01:00
01:01:42 Nick jyp__ is now known as jyp (~jp@237.131-200-80.adsl.skynet.be)
01:05:41 Join [IDC]Dragon2 [0] (~idc-drago@pD9FF8AFC.dip.t-dialin.net)
01:06:12 Quit mecraw__ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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01:06:51 Join Digital007 [0] (~accad7e8@labb.contactor.se)
01:06:58Digital007Hi
01:07:06amiconn[IDC]Dragon: I found another unnecessary complicated and slow construct (fat.c lines 1625..1628). The whole cluster could be cleared in one transfer() call
01:07:35[IDC]Dragon2hang on, I'm merging+committing
01:08:14amiconn(as long as a cluster does not consist of >256 sectors. It never does with FAT)
01:09:10 Quit Digital007 (Client Quit)
01:09:26[IDC]Dragon2ok, committed once more
01:10:09[IDC]Dragon2not 1625..1628 ony more...
01:10:17amiconnArgh, I should check more thoroughly... This would need a big memory area with zeros...
01:13:34[IDC]Dragon2I'm off
01:14:39[IDC]Dragon2you could start with hotswap if you like, unmount is there (untested)
01:15:01[IDC]Dragon2or also go to bed |-)
01:15:30[IDC]Dragon2bye!
01:15:34 Quit [IDC]Dragon2 ()
01:20:05 Quit [IDC]Dragon (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:34:19 Quit jyp ("Leaving")
01:34:20 Quit PnkyChkn (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
01:35:46 Quit mecraw__ ("Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com)")
01:36:22 Quit Stryke` ("Friends don't let friends listen to Anti-Flag")
01:41:34 Quit Ka__ ("* poof *")
01:44:46Quel|awaytime to go to bed
01:44:49Quel|awaycu another day
01:44:53 Quit Quel|away ("KVIrc 3.0.1.99 'System Virtue'")
01:47:01 Join Ka_ [0] (~tkirk@69.243.74.180)
01:57:13 Part amiconn
02:00
02:29:59***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:48:06 Join PnkyChkn [0] (PnkyChkn@AC9AC534.ipt.aol.com)
02:48:19PnkyChknhello?
02:50:03PnkyChknanybody home?
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03:47:37 Join echs [0] (~echs@p54808540.dip.t-dialin.net)
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04:04:00 Quit echs_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
04:30:00***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
05:00
05:16:22veterani'm home
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06:48:46 Quit veteran ("I-n-v-i-s-i-o-n 2.0 Build 3515")
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07:06:50 Quit MooMaunder (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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07:16:08PnkyChknhello?
07:16:31PnkyChknanybody around?
07:19:53 Quit PnkyChkn (Client Quit)
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08:30:04***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
09:00
09:18:01 Join Zagor_ [242] (~bjst@labb.contactor.se)
09:18:05 Join LinusN [0] (~linus@labb.contactor.se)
09:19:56 Nick Zagor_ is now known as Zagor (~bjst@labb.contactor.se)
09:24:40 Part Zagor
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09:24:52 Nick zagor is now known as Zagor (~bjst@labb.contactor.se)
09:36:56 Join LePoulpe [0] (~lpos@AMontpellier-251-1-31-176.w83-113.abo.wanadoo.fr)
09:37:02LePoulpehi all
09:38:55Zagorhi
09:39:44LePoulpehas anyone experienced the "red led dead" problem and found a way to avoid it ???
09:40:36Zagorlots of people have experienced it (or it wouldn't have a name). we are not sure what causes it, but it appears a lot more common in a specific drive type
09:42:41LePoulpei have it up to 5 times in 30 minutes when using JB in my car ; and it happens 2 times during 4 hours when plugged quietly on my stereo
09:43:33LePoulpein the beginning i suspect large playlist(3000 songs) in my car ; but it happens with small too , perhaps less often
09:43:35Zagordo you have a Hitachi DK23DA disk?
09:43:47LePoulpecould it be from hard drive fragmentation or things like that
09:44:03LePoulpeit's hitachi ; i'm not sure for exact reference
09:44:46Zagormenu->info->debug->view disk info
09:44:50LePoulpeit happens very rarely with rockbox version 2.0
09:45:12LePoulpei suspect the batteries now
09:45:16LePoulpei'l lchange them
09:45:56Zagorit's not the batteries, it's a combination of a hardware issue on these disks and a software issue in our ata driver. we have tried to nail it down for more than a year
09:46:22LePoulpei've read it on rockbox site
09:46:57LePoulpei have an issue that noboby seems to have :
09:47:10Zagorwould you be interested in helping us by testing different versions and see when it started to happen?
09:47:29LePoulpesometimes , when it's dead , the current time is greater than the time of the song
09:47:47LePoulpeiv' alrady seen such a display : 6:25 3:45
09:47:48Zagora big problem for us is that none of the core developers can trigger a red led dead
09:48:12LePoulpeforme in my car, this problem make my jb almost unusable
09:48:29LePoulpe75% of the time this problem appears when pushing "next" button
09:48:31Zagorare you sure it only does this sometimes? if you play the song again, does it work better then?
09:48:42LePoulpewait
09:48:44LePoulpesometimes
09:48:50LePoulpeit's dead
09:48:52Zagorotherwise it could simply be a vbr index problem
09:48:54LePoulpei switch off
09:49:13LePoulpewhen it asks 'resume / stop"
09:49:15LePoulpei resume
09:49:18LePoulpeand it's dead again
09:49:30LePoulpesometimes i can click on next and it begins next song
09:49:38LePoulpeand sometimes i must relaod the playlist
09:49:47Zagoryes, the red led dead can happen any time
09:50:48Zagorcan you help us test and find it?
09:50:56LePoulpecurrently my jb is out of battery (like every 3 hours or less, that's why i want to change 'em) , but tomorrow once it's reloaded i'll install version 2.
09:50:58LePoulpe2.0
09:51:07LePoulpeit would be a pleasure for me
09:51:16LePoulpei like your stuff ;-)
09:52:00Zagorexcellent, i'll prepare some versions for you to try. i won't be here tomorrow morning though, perhaps in the evening.
09:52:33LePoulpei'm here in GMT + 1 work hours
10:00
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10:30:06***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
10:41:39 Join amiconn [0] (~jens@pD95D1068.dip.t-dialin.net)
10:42:00amiconnhi all
10:44:25Zagorhi
10:45:36Bagderhowdy
10:47:41crash_Zagor: can u reach donat.org/archos right now?
10:48:04Zagoryes
10:48:09crash_funny
10:48:15crash_here it works again
10:48:22crash_but at home it doesnt work
10:48:32Zagorsame for me
10:49:13Zagorthe routing is different from work than from home
10:54:01ZagorI can reach it from www.haxx.se but not from rockbox.haxx.se :-)
10:54:27Zagor(they are hosted on different networks)
10:58:14crash_i cant reach it from t-online backbone
10:58:34crash_but reachable from schlund+partner backbone
10:58:36crash_quite funny
10:58:52crash_so i can start copying parts of gmini wiki from work
10:59:27Zagorstill no sign of life from strath?
10:59:37crash_dont think so
11:00
11:00:00crash_jyp and gromit didnt tell me anything
11:00:25crash_but as i said, i dont think it is wrong to copy the content
11:00:31crash_or do you think ?
11:01:34Bagderwell
11:01:37Zagori would prefer to have consensus form strath before we start putting it on rockbox.org anyway
11:01:42Bagderwe got some iriver data "copied"
11:01:51Bagderthat upset some people a lot
11:02:00Bagderso upset they ran away
11:02:03Bagdernever to return
11:02:11crash_oh :/
11:02:20Bagderwe don't want that to repeat
11:02:25crash_sure
11:02:35crash_so i'll set it on hold
11:05:05Lynx_is there a (recorder) shortcut to put a file in the queue? I mean without going through the file menu?
11:06:03Zagorno, long-play,play,play is the shortest sequence
11:06:39Lynx_ah, didn't know about long-play. but that sequence get's it into the playlist, right?
11:07:00Zagorah, right. queueing requires three down-clicks
11:07:09Lynx_ok...
11:07:30crash_Zagor: Bagder : so what do you think when i can start copying the data, if we dont hear anything from strath?
11:07:35Lynx_another thing that annoys me: is there a way to start playing something without having the whole folder in the playlist as a result?
11:09:04Zagorcrash_: i don't know. i think we should wait another week at least.
11:09:29ZagorLynx_: only by adding the individual track to the playlist
11:10:41 Join [IDC]Dragon [0] (~d90a3255@labb.contactor.se)
11:12:01Lynx_so if i add the first track to the playlist, and then add another with 'add last', there are only the two in there, and not the rest of the folder contents in between?
11:14:21Zagorcorrect
11:15:22Lynx_hmm, maybe it would be a nice feature to be able to set the default to 'put only one file in list' instead of 'put folder contents in list' on play in the browser.
11:16:10Zagoryes, but only very few people want to play a single file then stop
11:22:46Lynx_well, i start with a single file to listen, and then add more. probably many people do this if they don't want to listen to a whole album?
11:24:30Lynx_well, but adding the single file first is only a few clicks more...just have to remember not to just play it.
11:24:35Zagori shouldn't claim to know what people do or don't. i just know we haven't had that request before. but patches are always welcome :-)
11:24:52Zagorlunch, bbl
11:25:21Lynx_guten appetitt ;-)
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11:50:00lImbushi all
11:50:08JJ-Demonhi
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13:29:36[IDC]Dragonamiconn: do you read?
13:30:58 Join reini|feuerwehr [0] (~reini@M994P013.adsl.highway.telekom.at)
13:31:08reini|feuerwehrhi
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13:32:42 Join methangas [0] (methangas@0x50a43276.virnxx10.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk)
13:36:24reinii have a problem with my jukebox(studio 20)...when i play songs with it, it stops after 2 or 3 songs and the player is freezing...then i have to restart it again. do u think, is this a software bug or a hadware problem(i use the latest rockbox version)
13:36:48Zagoris the red light on when it freezes?
13:37:17reinihmm, im not sure, i think so
13:37:45reiniits running atm, i can tell in some minutes
13:38:10Zagoralso, try using the archos firmware and see if you get the same problem
13:40:18reiniwhat says it, when the red light is on?
13:40:30Zagornothing, but the red light shines :-)
13:41:05Zagorwe have a known problem with some disk models, where the disk sometimes freezes. we call it the "red led death"
13:41:25reinicool, im not alone ;)
13:41:55reinia friend had a similar problem, he send the harddisk to ibm and now it works
13:42:12reinibut when i enter my serial number at the hitachi website, it says, it's invalid
13:42:32Zagorinteresting, I didn't know hitachi acknowledged this problem
13:42:54Zagorwhich serial number are you entering? where do you read it from?
13:43:13reinii entered all ;)
13:43:23reinibut i think its the one on the back
13:44:03Zagorthe one on the back is archos player serial number. hitachi probably wants the disk serial number.
13:44:29reiniyeah, i mean on the hdd
13:44:34Zagoroh ok
13:44:52reinidamn, already the 3rd song and it still running
13:44:59reini+is
13:45:04Zagor:)
13:45:44reinimaybe, there is a problem with the batteries, they are very loosely in it
13:46:01reinicould this be?
13:46:33Zagorperhaps. try stretching the springs a bit.
13:47:02reiniok 4th song, new record ;)
13:47:40reinithx, ill do this after, maybe it freezes now...
13:49:57reinibtw, the website and the software roxx, good job!
13:50:14Zagorthanks
13:51:12reinii cant stretch one spring, i make a foto, then u can see why..
13:52:29LinusNreini: you mean the wire soldered across the spring?
13:52:49reiniexactly
13:53:09LinusNif your batteries are loose, the circuit board holding the springs might be loose
13:53:34LinusNhttp://www.rockbox.org/docs/repairbattery.html
13:55:02reinialright, thx...is there any problem, which is unsolved? ;)
13:56:35Zagor:)
14:00
14:04:33reinihmm, no soldering iron here :/
14:04:34 Quit methangas (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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14:05:42reinilast there was also a problem....a song was running, and when it should go to the next song, the first song was continuing. the display say 6:47/3:45...a bit strange. after i pressed a button, it freezes...
14:10:11reiniLinusN i dont think, the curcuit board is loose...the springer is just too short i think...so the batteries are not very tight in it
14:14:24LinusNweird, i haven't yet seen a player where the batteries aren't tighly fit
14:15:25Zagormany people are cutting off the retaining wire to get tighter springs
14:16:00LinusNprobably the same guys that come back with broken solder joints on the pcb:s :-)
14:21:03Zagor:)
14:21:23reinihehe...i'll try to make it the retaining wire, but i think, this works only for one or two millimeters
14:23:59Zagorif you have more than two milimeters slack, something is seriously wrong
14:24:40reiniits about 2mm
14:26:03reinihttp://www.rockbox.org/docs/solderjoints.jpg when you look on the back right, there is this battery contact, where the + of the battery is...what if a put a small metaplate in there? would this work?
14:28:13LinusNwhat batteries are you using?
14:29:41reinithe beautiful green ones ;)
14:30:08reinithe standards, i got from archos
14:30:12***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
14:31:08reinii diassembled my archos yesterday for the first time
14:31:54reiniso i havent a possibility yet to buy new ones
14:33:25reinihowever, they have all the same size, so it doesnt matter, what batteries i use
14:35:32Zagori just haven't heard about anyone having a problem with the batteries rattling around in the archos before
14:36:24reiniits the only way i can explain it
14:36:59reiniill try something...brb
14:37:09*LinusN is amused by the MisticRiver forum
14:38:03LinusNevery other thread with complaints about the Hxx players ends up with a "Rockbox will fix that" reply :-)
14:53:12reinidamn
14:53:31reinii reassembled it and not its working ;)
14:57:45reininow*
14:59:28LinusNcongrats
15:00
15:01:32reinithx ;) but i dunno, what the problem was o0o0
15:02:35LinusNi still suspect the solder joints
15:03:20reinimaybe, but i didnt do anything with it
15:03:48reinii disassembled it and pulled out the hdd
15:03:58reinithen i reassembled it again and not its working..
15:09:50Zagorwhoa, the h320 has 4MB flash
15:11:33reininow* wth, i confuse t and w today..
15:11:44[IDC]Dragonmy Ondio has 128 MB ;-)
15:11:49Zagorhehe
15:11:57Bagder:-P
15:12:42Bagder4MB leaves room for boot sound! ;-)
15:12:54Zagoryay :)
15:13:10*Bagder imagines Zagor's voice saying "rooooockbox" on each boot
15:13:39LinusN"another visitor...stay a while...staaaaaay forever"
15:17:27reiniwould you recommend the remote control for the jukebox?
15:18:18Zagoryes and no. sometimes a remote is very convenient, but it's a very very basic device
15:19:20reinihmm, its already sold out at amazon and in austria there isnt a archos dealer :/
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16:08:53NSplitniven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
16:08:54NHealniven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
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16:10:15 Part LinusN
16:17:31amiconn[IDC]Dragon: Now I'm here, but only shortly
16:28:15amiconn(away again)
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16:40:04 Join ciratose [0] (chris1712@user-2427.l5.c3.dsl.pol.co.uk)
16:40:28ciratosehellllllo everyone
16:40:48ciratoseanyone know if theres any site for cool stuff to do with the gmini xs200?
16:41:00ciratoseor any plans for RockBox to make an xs200 firmware?
16:41:08Zagoryes
16:41:29ciratosexs200 firmware?
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18:00:27crash_names
18:00:30crash_argh
18:07:33Lynx_?
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19:35:59 Join PnkyChkn [0] (PnkyChkn@ACA5FCC7.ipt.aol.com)
19:36:45PnkyChknhello?
19:43:13lImbusho
19:44:28PnkyChknhi
19:45:21PnkyChknI'm having issues with what I think is a hard drive with an error on it
19:45:24PnkyChknin my Studio 20
19:45:51PnkyChknthink you might be able to help?
19:49:05 Join webguest40 [0] (~043ef7d7@labb.contactor.se)
19:49:11lImbussorry, I was away, I am back, reading
19:49:32PnkyChknno problem
19:49:43lImbusmhmm. don't know. let's try it. explain your problems.
19:49:48PnkyChknok
19:50:24PnkyChknit all started a month or two ago, when I was walking with my player in my pocket and it stopped working. Whenever I'd try to reboot it, I'd get "waiting" and then a File sys error.
19:50:37PnkyChknTo date I have:
19:50:43PnkyChknchanged the batteries
19:50:48PnkyChknchecked the battery connectors
19:51:26PnkyChkntried to reformat the hard drive via USB (the computer will beep when I connect the player via USB, but it refuses to recognize the drive)
19:51:39lImbusuh
19:51:43lImbusthe latter sounds bad.
19:52:16PnkyChknand tried to IDE connect via a 2.5 -> 3.5 adapter (I can't get past the setup menu, where it shows the drive as an "Unknown Device")
19:52:16lImbusso you did not get your box running since that day one or two month ago ?
19:52:22PnkyChknnope.
19:52:38lImbusok, the latter is what I just wanted to propose
19:53:14PnkyChknI thought I might be missing some kind of driver, but I've re-downloaded everything related that I can find from archos and still no luck.
19:53:24lImbusit certainly has nothing to do with the rockbox-software nor the archos hardware if the device just does not react anymore like a usual hard drive
19:53:37lImbusthere are no drivers for hard disks.
19:53:42PnkyChknah
19:53:50PnkyChknSo the thing's busted?
19:54:06lImbusthere can be firmwares to be updated and additional tools for noise managment for example, but no literal driver
19:54:10lImbusyeah, it sounds bad.
19:54:35PnkyChkndamn
19:54:46PnkyChknanything else I might be able to do at all?
19:55:04lImbusthe fact windows recognises there is "something", but the device itself is not even able to identify itself looks very bad.
19:56:14PnkyChknsheesh
19:56:15lImbusif the device would be recognised but not useable, then you could try a lot of things like reformatting/cleaning logically and physically. but that looks like the interface hardware is broken
19:56:16 Quit reini (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
19:56:36lImbusI can sell you a 13 GB hard drive I got here around :-)
19:57:23PnkyChknhrm. So the actual unit itself is usable, I just need a new hard drive?
19:57:37PnkyChknand how much?
19:58:49lImbushehe, that was just for fun, I don't know even if it still works :-/
19:59:18lImbusmhmm. my hdd possibly does not work. your unit most probably will.
19:59:47PnkyChknah
20:00
20:00:06lImbusyou should have a look at the last weeks mailing list archive. there have been a lot of discussions about which harddrive fits and so on.
20:00:20lImbusaren't you keen on a 80 gb-ish hdd ?
20:01:37PnkyChknonly if the price is right :-)
20:08:54PnkyChknNow if I were to get, say, a 30 GB fujitsu laptop hard drive, that WOULD work on the Jukebox, right?
20:15:49 Join SurferJoe [0] (~4444dab4@labb.contactor.se)
20:18:48SurferJoeI just bought a remote control from eBay auction and can't get it to work. It does plug into the Ear jack, correct? I'm running ROCKbox 2.4.
20:23:10lImbusPnkyChkn: yes, most probably. I don't know about any incompability to ANY "usual" laptop hard drive. I strongly recommend you thou to read the ml-archive
20:23:23lImbusSurferJoe: yes, correct
20:23:59lImbusSurferJoe: what device do you own ? Ondios do not support remotes for example
20:24:27PnkyChknlimbus, what part of the ml-archive?
20:24:53lImbusPnkyChkn: the last weeks most probably
20:25:01PnkyChknlooking for what?
20:25:28lImbusfor comments about incompability. or suitable drives in general.
20:25:37PnkyChknah
20:25:37lImbusSurferJoe: I see the newer Recorders (v2) do not support them as well.
20:28:55PnkyChknbut limbus, if I've got a Fujitsu hard drive in my player already, it's pretty safe to assume that a 30 GB will work just as well (or in this instance, better) than the 20 GB?
20:29:08PnkyChknisn't it?
20:30:21***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:30:23lImbusyo
20:30:59PnkyChkn?
20:31:11lImbusyes, your right
20:31:18PnkyChkncool
20:31:21PnkyChknthanks
20:31:31lImbusdon't know exactly how to behave for formatting. some say it's not possible through usb, some say it's not possible with windows-xp-tools, but that's the further step :-)
20:31:58PnkyChkn?
20:32:17PnkyChknso I might not be able to format it?
20:32:51lImbusthere is certainly a way for normal creatures like you and I to do, but it might be not the obvious one. there may be a trick. dunno
20:33:36lImbusa lot of people are talking about a special tool (freeware from another company) that is called SwissKnife or SwissNife
20:33:46lImbusthat seems to do the job.
20:34:07PnkyChknand how does that work? IDE or USB?
20:34:21PnkyChknor do we know?
20:35:41 Quit echs ("re-x")
20:36:19lImbuseasiest way is certainly ide.
20:36:44lImbusswissknife does it all, but is so well known for it's usb-capabilities.
20:37:01PnkyChknah
20:37:03lImbusI THINK it then has to be fat32, but I'm not sure.
20:37:17PnkyChknone thing I'm confused about (since I never got it to work)
20:37:17amiconnPnkyChkn: It's certainly possible to format via USB. I did that (but using a sophisticated way).
20:37:29PnkyChknwhen you hook the drive up to IDE, how is the computer supposed to react?
20:37:46PnkyChknand do you need to disconnect the primary hard drive before you do it?
20:37:54amiconnThe partition has to be a primary partition, and formatted FAT32 in order to be recognized by the firmware, be it archos or rockbox
20:38:19PnkyChknbut if I'm using XP that's pretty easy to do, right?
20:38:47amiconnYou can simply format it using the XP tools, but only if the partition is < 32 GB. WinXP refuses to format larger partitions with FAT32
20:39:02lImbusah, that was it.
20:39:12PnkyChknwell, I'll only be working with a 30 GB hard drive anyway, so that's not a problem
20:39:15*lImbus is having a 40 GB
20:39:39amiconnEither use a special tool, like swissnife, h2format with WinXP, or use another OS (Win98, or Linux etc)
20:40:06PnkyChknbut I'm still confused about the whole IDE thing.
20:40:20PnkyChknhow it's supposed to react
20:41:17PnkyChknshould the normal hard drive be disconnected, or can you just attach the 2.5'' to an extra IDE slot via adapter, and if I do it that way, does it need to be set to slave?
20:41:39PnkyChknand how do you set it to slave....
20:41:44PnkyChkn(if needed)
20:45:09lImbusmhmm.
20:45:21lImbusthere are somewhat called jumpers on the drive
20:46:18PnkyChknright
20:46:30lImbusthese define if your hdd is master or slave
20:46:35PnkyChknright
20:46:43 Quit ZiRo`5 (Client Quit)
20:46:49lImbusyour already existing hdd should stay master, the damaged one should be slave
20:47:09PnkyChknI'm not sure where to find the jumpers on the 2.5'' though
20:47:28lImbussee if you can get a manual for the drive
20:47:52lImbusincluding jumper description, preferably
20:47:52PnkyChknI've been trying :-\
20:48:25lImbusif now, due to adding the damaged hdd to you computer, your whole computer does not start anymore into windows and so on, then this is another sign for a damaged hdd :-)
20:49:15PnkyChknmy computer wasn't starting into windows, but could that be because both were set to master?
20:50:18lImbusyes.
20:50:24lImbusthat could be the cause
20:50:29PnkyChknok
20:50:45lImbusand your broken drive was most probably jumpered to be the master within your mp3-player
20:51:03PnkyChknnow, one more quick question, before I go on another scavanger hunt trying to figure this out:
20:51:31PnkyChknif I had disconnected the actual primary hard drive and plugged in the broken one as the only hard drive, would I still have not been able to boot up into windows?
20:51:57lImbusthere is a third setting you can set up with jumpers, it's "cable select". i don't like it. in this scenario the fact where the drive is connected on the cable defines wheter it's master or slave
20:52:28lImbusno, cuz windows is on the hard disk you'd have been removing from your computer
20:52:36PnkyChknthat's what I figured
20:52:42PnkyChknok
20:52:49PnkyChknyou've given me hope :-)
20:52:58lImbusBUT it may be your bios would recongise it
20:53:09lImbusas beeing to only one master on the bus
20:53:29lImbuswhen it says something about "Siemens Fujistu Computers Disk blabla"
20:53:47lImbusTHEN you may be lucky
20:53:57PnkyChknno, when the broken drive was the only one connected, it still said "Unknown Device"
20:54:03lImbusyou ought then try to reformat as amiconn said
20:54:12lImbusmhmm :-(
20:54:23lImbushow old is your computer ?
20:54:35lImbuswhich version of windows is it able to run ?
20:54:36PnkyChkn<6
20:54:43PnkyChknmonths
20:54:47PnkyChknXP pro
20:54:48lImbusow.
20:54:52lImbusthats new enogh
20:54:57PnkyChknno go?
20:55:19lImbusolder computer may have problems to recognize such "big" drives
20:55:25lImbusI just wanted to be sure
20:55:27SurferJoesorry, I have an Archos JB/Rec 20. That's what the guy had that I bought it from.
20:55:37lImbushehe
20:56:02PnkyChknso would it be worth it to search for jumper information and try it that way, or will it still not work?
20:56:14lImbusmhmm. dunno.
20:56:28lImbusyour drive shouldve been jumpered as master, so...
20:56:37SurferJoeThe headphones past thru the remote, but none of the functions work
20:56:39lImbusit shouldve worked at least "a bit" in your computer
20:57:23amiconnSurferJoe: What jukebox model do you have?
20:57:35lImbusSurferJoe: are you sure you own a device that is able to handle remotes ? then you should have a look at the batteries inside the remote
20:58:31SurferJoeyes, Archos shows I have the correct remote. Hmm, batteries. Didn't realize that.
20:58:57PnkyChknlmao
20:59:01PnkyChkn:-)
20:59:14PnkyChknbatteries are always a novel concept, I suppose
20:59:35lImbusit's not supposed to be swapped, you have to unscrew the remote
20:59:45SurferJoeI thought the remote would get power from the player.
20:59:50lImbuswith a very tiny screwdriver
21:00
21:00:16lImbusno, the fourth ring is just for "returning" information.
21:00:28SurferJoeyes, there is a battery
21:00:41lImbusas I said :-)
21:01:00SurferJoeyes, as a matter of fact, 2 batteries
21:01:01lImbusbut it has to be in a good shape
21:01:07lImbusit may be simply low
21:01:30SurferJoe2 x 3v
21:01:44lImbusyo
21:01:49lImbuscr2032 or something like that
21:03:13SurferJoetriplett says 6.2 volts. That should be o.k.
21:04:47lImbuswhat is triplett ?
21:05:05lImbusdo you measure while they are in use ?
21:06:57SurferJoeinstalled, pressing buttons I get 5.75v
21:07:35lImbusmhmm. that should do the job.
21:07:59SurferJoewait, when I press on the batteries, it started to work
21:08:07lImbusdo you actually see anything broken ? like by hazard the fourth cable ?
21:08:21lImbusahh, that's some good news :-)
21:08:48SurferJoeno, I think it's the cheesy battery holder/bracket
21:09:29SurferJoeI'll pull out the batteries, and push it down
21:11:37SurferJoeThat was it. Works fine now. Thanks for the help !!!
21:12:26lImbusyou're welcome
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21:15:27 Join Digital007 [0] (~acbd21f2@labb.contactor.se)
21:15:36SurferJoeoh, a Triplett is an analog volt/ohm meter, very popular 25 years ago :-)>
21:17:17Digital007is Rockbox working on the iRiver yet?
21:17:23Digital007I saw the wiki but was still curious
21:17:26SurferJoehttp://www.triplett.com/pis/pis%20pics/pis_3010.gif
21:17:51lImbusSurferJoe: ah. I thought one of these crappy digital ones. no way of measuring battery voltages with that :-)
21:17:59lImbusDigital007: not yet
21:18:27Digital007ok but how is progress coming?
21:21:27lImbusdon't know
21:21:40lImbustry to ask Bagder, LinusN or Zagor
21:22:04lImbusI know a lot of work has been done, but I can't estimate how much still has to be done.
21:22:38lImbusfrom what I know the kernel is ported, I saw a picture of a dissasembled iRiver showing a directory list.
21:22:53lImbusthat whould imply ata is working as well :-)
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22:00
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22:11:11Spidahi
22:12:06 Join [IDC]Dragon [0] (~idc-drago@pD9512645.dip.t-dialin.net)
22:13:39[IDC]Dragonhi again!
22:13:54[IDC]Dragonamiconn: I missed your "time slot"
22:14:36[IDC]Dragonmy question was: do you know if any romboxable build is close to the limit?
22:17:15*amiconn checks
22:18:08lImbusSpida: bist du's ? cccac ?
22:19:15amiconn[IDC]Dragon: Do you ask because of multivolume for the hd models? I don't like the idea of enabling this by default.
22:19:28[IDC]Dragonyes, that's why
22:21:56[IDC]Dragonbtw, thanks for clearing the warnings I overlooked last night
22:22:28[IDC]Dragonhow about #define HAVE_HOTSWAP ?
22:22:56amiconnThe tightest fit for rombox is the v2. There are 3606 bytes left with current cvs
22:23:17[IDC]Dragonthe unmount should rather be conditioned like that
22:24:01amiconnI don't think so.
22:24:12[IDC]Dragon3606 bytes sounds like a fair distance
22:24:38amiconnImho fat_unmount() should be available even without multivolume, to be called before acknowledging USB.
22:24:46[IDC]Dragonhotswap is an additional feature to multivolume
22:24:56[IDC]Dragonok, that specific case, ok
22:25:14[IDC]Dragonahem, andinvalidating files/dirs too
22:25:27[IDC]Dragonso basically all of it
22:25:53amiconnI did not find a way to make the latter (invalidating files/dirs) 100% clean.
22:26:01[IDC]Dragonexcept for UI parts like a tree refesh
22:26:17[IDC]DragonI was about to ask that
22:26:42amiconnIf we want to close the files/dirs in a clean way, we would need to flush them.
22:26:47[IDC]Dragonif we have a chance to pull off the handles under the app
22:27:10[IDC]Dragonthat may create a lot of unhandled errors
22:27:55amiconnWhile going through all handles to close them, some other thread may again open a file handle we already closed..
22:28:44amiconnImho there are 2 ways:
22:28:50[IDC]Dragonmore mutexing, but this will block the thread
22:29:03[IDC]Dragonor somehow deflect open
22:29:08amiconn(1) Simply invalidate all handles, then unmount. This does not leave the chance that some other thread reopens a file (no yield() )
22:29:48amiconn(2) Have a flag associated with the volume, to indicate shutdfown-in-progress. Use this to deny open() attempts
22:30:22***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:30:23[IDC]Dragon(1) the unmount may flush, e.g. write and yield
22:30:49amiconnYes, but at this point the .mounted flag should already be false
22:30:53SpidalImbus: ja
22:31:28[IDC]Dragon(2) sounds better, if this can be coded compactand elegant
22:33:06[IDC]Dragonnot mounted is such a flag...
22:34:15amiconnIndeed... but if you unset this before flushing and closing the open files/dirs, the fat operations to do this would no longer work
22:35:40[IDC]Dragonthey will, the flag is just for the UI and remount
22:36:38[IDC]Dragonbut an (almost) dual-purpose is not kiss
22:38:02amiconnfunctions that depend on fat_bpbs[volume].mounted : fat_open(), fat_opendir()
22:38:49amiconnI don't know for sure whether the file/dir code doesn't use these when cleaning up (but I believe it doesn't)
22:40:15 Quit methangas (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- s0 d4Mn l33t |t'z 5c4rY!")
22:40:18[IDC]DragonI've put that sanity check only into those "entry" functions
22:41:05[IDC]Dragonand wanted to remove it once stable, it's not rockbox philosophy to check arguments
22:42:12[IDC]Dragonwe follow the "you get what you deserve" approach, needing much less code
22:42:42amiconnI'm not sure whether it is overkill to try and flush everything on dismount. Rockbox did work well without that in the past.
22:43:04amiconnImho flushing the fat in fat_unmount() is the more important part, because it ensures consistent file system structures
22:43:25[IDC]Dragonyes
22:43:42[IDC]Dragonplus, we rarely write
22:43:56amiconnFlushing the files cannot guarantee consistent data anyway, because the file itself may be inconsistent as long as the application holds it open
22:44:18[IDC]Dragonthat's why the app has to ack USB
22:45:54amiconnkay, so for USB it is the responsibility of the app to care for its files. For the removed MMC, there is nothing we can do anyway...
22:46:25amiconnSimply invalidating the handles should be sufficient
22:46:51[IDC]Dragonif nobody crashes about it later
22:47:56amiconnStill better than writing old data on the new volume into wrong places...
22:48:21[IDC]Dragon:-/
22:48:53amiconnI experienced that yesterday, with the cross-volume rename. It created cross-linked files and other "nice" effects
22:49:34[IDC]Dragonamazing, so much harm in such a little function...
22:59:29amiconnDid you notice there is a new GCC 3.3.5 available for cygwin?
23:00
23:00:00amiconnI'm curious whether somebody already tried this with rockbox
23:00:21 Join bagawk [0] (~acc7695e@labb.contactor.se)
23:00:42[IDC]Dragonno, I'm the last to check for gcc versions
23:01:36[IDC]Dragonis it for SH?
23:02:09amiconnYes, Eric Lassauge updated his packages: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/CygwinDevelopment
23:03:19[IDC]Dragonmy cygwin setup is fragile enough to better not play with it
23:04:31amiconnI think I will try these packages myself, let's see what happens.
23:05:52amiconnCygwin is not that hard to set up
23:06:50bagawkI always had problems with the installer−−- if i took to long to select packages, the download would fail
23:07:28[IDC]Dragonit's not hard only if it works, I had my issues with it
23:08:08[IDC]DragonBluechips' package saved me on a resistive PC
23:08:11amiconnHmm. I never experienced such problems. Some mirrors cause trouble downloading; tu-dresden did always work reliable for me.
23:08:39 Join Bagder_ [0] (~daniel@1-1-5-26a.hud.sth.bostream.se)
23:08:55bagawkkernel.org is a very fast mirror for me (was getting 2000kbytesps or so)
23:09:02bagawkMaybe because the server is close :)
23:09:14bagawkI think OSU serves some of kernel.org
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23:24:18 Join Zagor [242] (foobar@h254n2fls31o265.telia.com)
23:27:04[IDC]Dragonhiya
23:27:07Zagorhi
23:27:52[IDC]Dragonhave you read our thought about hotswap/cleanup/USB ?
23:27:59[IDC]Dragonthoughts
23:28:07Zagorreading the log now
23:28:11bagawkHej Zagor
23:28:43Zagorhej
23:31:33Zagori must say i don't think this rombox focus is healthy. we shouldn't avoid adding useful code to the project.
23:33:16Bagderthe only sane approach is to have ifdefs for rombox's features to leave out
23:33:36Bagderand do special builds for rombox
23:33:46BagderI mean in the long run
23:33:48Zagorabout hotswap: i don't think we need it. we will never be able to handle an unplanned card eject, so we shouldn't even try.
23:34:11*Bagder goes to sleep
23:35:27[IDC]Dragon"never be able to handle an unplanned card eject", why not?
23:35:41Zagorstopping disk access from all threads is already handled, for usb. do we really need more?
23:35:48[IDC]Dragonnight Bagder
23:36:00Zagorbecause there is no warning when the card is ejected
23:36:36[IDC]Dragonyes, but we don't have cacheing besides the FAT
23:37:10Zagorcorrect, but we may be writing. ejecting then can leave broken cluster chains, which is a bad thing.
23:37:11[IDC]Dragonif you rip it out while recording, that's your problem
23:37:52[IDC]DragonI rather envision the "normal" case, sitting in the browser
23:39:28Zagoryes, but if we say "you can change card at any time" people will do just that. can we really define a few clear-cut cases when this is not allowed. how about dynamic playlists?
23:39:48[IDC]Dragontaking out the card, seeing the volume go away, inserting another, having it reappear
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23:41:16[IDC]Dragonperhaps one day the shown volume name is not <MMC1> but the true name
23:41:40[IDC]Dragonso you have feedback while trying out your cards
23:41:44TrevmarHey, Jorg, I left a message for you on the forum. I now have 3 dead Ondios to resuscitate -LOL
23:42:12[IDC]DragonTrevmar: I just made photos about my Ondio boot hardware
23:42:21TrevmarExcellent work on the backlight, by the way...
23:42:30bagawkIll take one :)
23:42:50[IDC]Dragonnobody commented on it until now
23:42:58TrevmarPhotos? Just what I need.. I think I am stuck with reall low-level resuscitation
23:43:28Zagor[IDC]Dragon: it's very risky. i don't like having options that can trick users to corrupt their cards.
23:43:52bagawk[IDC]Dragon: The backlight was cool, do the EL foils come in other colors though?
23:44:07TrevmarBlue is OK. 89Skr is OK too...
23:44:13Trevmarplus shipping
23:44:25[IDC]Dragonbagawk: in general yes, but this was the only one close to size I could get
23:44:36[IDC]DragonI would have preferred white
23:45:08TrevmarI had to switch on my Jukebox recorder to notice it is green :)
23:45:26bagawk[IDC]Dragon: I love the bluish white of the backlight mod we both did :)
23:46:00 Quit zeekoe ()
23:46:57Zagoramiconn: rockbox works well without flushing because we postpone the usb takeover until our file operations are completed. hotswap is way more risky.
23:46:57TrevmarI have to take off my sunglasses to see blue lights :(
23:47:10[IDC]DragonZagor: browser with no play nor record should be a safe point
23:47:24[IDC]DragonTrevmar: http://joerg.hohensohn.bei.t-online.de/archos/uart_boot/
23:47:36[IDC]Dragon2 new pis there
23:47:41[IDC]Dragonpics
23:48:22Zagor[IDC]Dragon: yes it is. but having a screen saying "now it's safe to swap your mmc card" is a lot safer
23:48:32amiconnYes, hotswap is more risky. However, it is a feature that the original firmware supports, and I think it's an important feature
23:48:59amiconnIt's simply cumbersome to reboot just to swap MMCs
23:49:08[IDC]Dragonthe safe screen or soft eject would be as clumsy as a power cycle
23:49:09Zagoroh. i thought the original require a reboot when swapping.
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23:50:47Zagorthen I understand the motivation :-)
23:51:52Zagorhow does archos handle the dangerous ejects? just a warning in the manual?
23:52:10amiconnI must admit I never really read the Ondio manual
23:53:35TrevmarJorg - OK, I see the two new photos. But how can I tell which of my three LCDs is dead?? LOL
23:54:13[IDC]Dragonyou don't necessarily need such a strip, it's just a lot more convenient
23:55:27lImbusTrevmar: I got one death OndioFM as well. Mine displays something on the display after about half a minute. Did you wait so long for that Ondio that draws the 'healthy' 50 mA after releasing ON ?
23:55:39TrevmarYes, I understand. I love your SD card plug by the way - very creative. I have some old pieces of that veroboard lying around somewhere...
23:56:15[IDC]Dragonor you tap PB1..3 at the CPU, but it's tiny there
23:56:40[IDC]Dragonor at the pullup array, but requires to take the tuner board off to reach it
23:57:37[IDC]Dragonsee http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/pub/Main/ArchosOndio/pcb_back_tuner_off.jpg
23:57:51[IDC]Dragon(paart of ArchosOndio wiki page)
23:57:58[IDC]Dragon(part
23:58:49TrevmarJorg - I waited 1 minute. Nothing on the display, no USB response either
23:59:01[IDC]Dragonclose to the top edge of the PCB it a *4 resistor array, wired as pullup

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