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#rockbox log for 2005-02-14

00:01:46 Join muesli_ [0] (muesli_tv@1Cust124.tnt7.hnr2.deu.da.uu.net)
00:02:43muesli_g'night ladiez
00:02:45amiconn"unexpected async reply..." :(
00:14:51 Join guerby [0] (~guerby@d83-177-220-227.cust.tele2.fr)
00:22:54*hcl yawns
00:22:55 Nick hcl is now known as HCl (hcl@titania.student.utwente.nl)
00:23:07HClanything new?
00:24:20hubblepreglow: hm.. what's the opcodes?
00:24:47preglowmac
00:24:50preglowmac.w and mac.l
00:25:14preglowi've got it working now, actually, but there some shifting happening here that i don't understand where's coming from
00:25:46 Quit muesli- (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
00:30:52Quel|outsleep time, cu
00:30:56HClbyebye
00:31:06 Quit Quel|out ("KVIrc 3.0.1.99 'Realia'")
00:34:17 Part GnagelRam
00:36:12 Quit muesli_ (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
00:51:43 Join cloudscapes [0] (gfgfd@Toronto-HSE-ppp3969709.sympatico.ca)
00:53:20cloudscapesI'm 99% certain that the H1x0 recording glitch is not a software problem. (some people are hoping rockbox can fix it)
00:53:22cloudscapeshttp://www.misticriver.net/boards/showthread.php?p=135635
00:53:34*cloudscapes lurks back into the shadows
00:54:00 Quit jyp ("poof!")
00:54:44***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:57:16preglowhmm
00:57:22amiconnrasher: U there?
00:57:28preglowi don't think that's the kind of glitch i detected once
00:57:37preglowbut i've just tested once
00:59:06 Quit Sucka ("( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 3.81 :: www.XLhost.de )")
00:59:51cloudscapeswas it a glitch that kept reapearing at regular intervals, or just a one-time random thing
01:00
01:00:20cloudscapesthere's also the apparent remote noise though, which doesn't have anything to do with this particular thing
01:00:31cloudscapesdue to defective remotes
01:01:30preglowi don't really remember, but at the time, i concluded it was sample dropout noise
01:01:43preglowbut hard disk noise is a problem, that i know
01:01:53HClah
01:02:06HClwhen recording to mp3, can't you record into memory then write to disk at the end?
01:02:25preglowwell, yes, that's what you do
01:02:35preglowbut if you record long enough, it'll still need to dump data while recording
01:02:42linuxstbDoesn't the recording glitch also happen when recording from the digital input?
01:02:55preglowlinuxstb: well, that would be a dead giveaway
01:03:05cloudscapespreglow: yeah it is, but no matter the hardware, if a recorder has moving parts and the mic is internal/attached, you'll get a glitch
01:03:22linuxstbDoes anyone know when this was discussed in this IRC channel?
01:03:24preglowcloudscapes: yes, but then i believe there are several noise contributors
01:03:32cloudscapesHCl: theoretically you can, up untill you run out of 32mb buffer :D
01:04:50cloudscapespreglow: quite possible. here I was only concerned with the one most people talked about, the "40-second sample loss bug".
01:05:09 Quit Aison ("( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 3.72 :: www.XLhost.de )")
01:05:56cloudscapeslinuxstb: yeah it was brought up a few hours ago, by mrelwood
01:06:07 Join Rori [0] (Rori@deadman3000.plus.com)
01:06:10*cloudscapes looks at the logs
01:06:11cloudscapes22.18.14 # <mrelwood>
01:07:05HClcloudscapes: yea, exactly, then you'll limit recorded mp3s to 32mb
01:07:36amiconnHCl: Rockbox already does this on the archos (delayed saving). So for short recordings from the mic you don't get harddisk noise
01:07:51HClit depends on what you want to use it for, ofcourse, but i think a +- 26mb mp3 buffer should be enough for most cases
01:07:55HClamiconn: mhm
01:08:57linuxstbHCl: Most people want to use it for live concert taping - replacing a DAT or MD recorder.
01:09:06RoriHaha! http://www.boycott-riaa.com/article/15869
01:09:09linuxstbSo a 60-90 minute recording time is needed.
01:09:23RoriThat's funny
01:10:18cloudscapesmost of the time, I use mine for concert recording too, and in uncompressed.
01:10:31preglowyes, but you can't avoid hard drive noise
01:10:41cloudscapesand I am so looking forward to that $@#& 60-minute auto-stop thing to be removed :P
01:10:41preglowit might be pretty easy to filter it out, though
01:11:01preglowyes, auto stop is pretty braindead
01:11:08preglow'least it could do was automatically start a new file
01:11:56HClwell
01:12:13*Rori just joined to hangout and see what happens with regards to the iRiver port. Excuse me while I idle :)
01:12:15HClin concerts, maybe you can get it to quickly empty its buffer to disk during the break between songs?
01:12:23cloudscapespreglow: if you're recording in non-preamp (no 2.5v to mic) and with a low low low mic volume (which is the setting you'd use for most concert recordings I think)
01:12:30amiconnImho recording a concert with the builtin mic of a mobile player is useless, but if you really want to do that, and without HD noise, get a flash based player/recorder
01:12:34linuxstbcloudscapes: What percentage of the battery is used when taping a typical concert in WAV?
01:12:50cloudscapesthen the hardrive noise is inaudible, unless the mic is attached to the iriver
01:13:06preglowreally? i got drive noise with an external mic once
01:13:28cloudscapeslinuxstb: I tested 3 hours to WAV. and I had a full battery bar left
01:13:31preglowbut yes, different setups
01:13:39preglowwow
01:13:56*Rori plans on getting one of those external stereo mics at some point. Maybe the type you can Y split to put either side of your head near your ears for that genuine stereo acoustics
01:13:57cloudscapespreglow: really? that's weird o.o must of been a really sensitive mic and quiet room
01:13:58HClactually, wouldn't it be possible to plug a compactflash card into the irivers harddisk interface?
01:14:10preglowcloudscapes: quiet room, yes
01:14:12linuxstbWell, 3 hours will only be about 1.5GB-2GB, so it should use much battery. The CPU can be slowed right down as well.
01:14:28preglowbut does it really stop recording after just one hour?
01:14:49linuxstbSounds to me as if you could fill up the 40GBs with a full charge then.
01:14:52cloudscapesthe hd is fairly loud (relative to nothingness and ambient tranquility) in a quiet room
01:15:19 Join LinusN [0] (~linus@labb.contactor.se)
01:15:33preglowhi, linux
01:15:35preglowlinus....
01:15:40LinusNcloudscapes: what makes you so sure that the recording glitch is a hardware issue?
01:15:40amiconnhi LinusN
01:15:44LinusNhi
01:15:50cloudscapeslinuxstb: don't think so, unless you use compression. 40gb WAV = about 66 hours
01:16:05RoriYo Linus (Mystic River member here). Just hanging and watching so ignore me :)
01:16:12LinusNhi
01:16:23 Nick Rori is now known as DeadMan (Rori@deadman3000.plus.com)
01:16:26DeadMan;)
01:16:28cloudscapesLinusN: hi! umm the tests I conducted earlier http://www.misticriver.net/boards/showthread.php?t=13060
01:16:55cloudscapesit's not hard-factual proof, but I think it's fairly sure
01:17:07preglowLinusN: in case you haven't read that far back the log, hubble has gotten sound out of his player
01:17:31LinusNsaw that
01:18:14LinusNcloudscapes: but i though people had the same glitch when recording via s/pdif?
01:19:35cloudscapesLinusN: that's also possible, I can't test that though. maybe the optical sensor flickers during hd activity
01:20:14LinusNpossibly
01:21:01HClpreglow: oh, i missed that, cool :x
01:21:31preglowHCl: missed what? :V
01:21:46amiconncloudscapes: I'd still bet it's a software issue, much like the background noise during playback on the Archos recorder with stock firmware
01:21:54*cloudscapes now wishes he had a Delta 66 soundcard instead of the 44 for s/pdif
01:22:07preglowi can try recording some spdif
01:22:22*DeadMan hugs his Revolution 7.1
01:22:56DeadManOnly snag I get is Cubase don't let me send PCM to SPDIF I have to send analog :P
01:23:03amiconnLinusN: Did you read about my attemts to make the X11 sim more realtime and fix the button handling?
01:23:30LinusNamiconn: yeah, i saw you were working on it
01:23:50cloudscapesamiconn: it might be, I can't really say for sure because I'm not an electrical engineer. but the glitch I recorded was definatelly mechanical. there may be other kinds of glitches that I didn't pick up with my h120
01:24:10linuxstbHere's a report from someone getting dropped samples with the digital input: http://emusician.com/mag/emusic_iriver/
01:24:17cloudscapesbtw congrats rockbox team on getting the hardware to utter its first sound! ;)
01:24:23*cloudscapes looks
01:24:29DeadMandropped samples on record is a known prob
01:24:50linuxstbDeadMan: Is it confirmed with both analogue and digital inputs?
01:25:17DeadManconfirmed with default fw for all recording I believe
01:25:40amiconnLinusN: Do you have some hints for the X11 problem with multithreading? While I now use XtToolkitThreadInitialize(), I still get "Xlib: unexpected async reply (sequence xxx)" from time to time
01:25:52cloudscapeshmmm
01:26:02*amiconn thinks X11 programming is just plain ugly
01:26:05LinusNamiconn: i haven't the faintest idea :-)
01:26:34cloudscapesand the 40-second glitch I heard wasn't dropped samples, rather the addition of.
01:26:44cloudscapesbut anyways, I'm not the genius here :)
01:26:46amiconnThe bad thing is that I need to call the input event handling from a timer...
01:27:03elinenbelinuxstb: what is the current status on the libmad and libflac plugins?
01:27:04*cloudscapes crawls back under his rock
01:27:15elinenbelinuxstb: can they run realtime?
01:27:22LinusNelinenbe: no
01:27:37elinenbewhat % of realtime will they run?
01:28:00XShocK4
01:28:00linuxstbCurrently they just decode a FLAC/MP2/MP3 file to WAV, which will then play correctly with the iRiver firmware - mad at about 4% and FLAC at about 8% of real-time.
01:28:03XShocK4%
01:28:07LinusNelinenbe: they will run in realtime once we set the cpu clock to 140MHz
01:28:17linuxstbLinusN: I hope so!
01:28:29LinusNif not, we have to optimize a little
01:28:46linuxstbAre we at 11MHz now?
01:28:54LinusNyes
01:29:20linuxstbSo FLAC should work OK, but libmad may struggle.
01:29:38preglowas linus says, optimizing will probably be necessary
01:29:50LinusNlinuxstb: do you dither the output?
01:30:12linuxstbFor libmad, yes, but that didn't really affect the decoding speed significantly.
01:30:22LinusNok
01:31:08elinenbeLinusN: why are you slowing down the CPU clock?
01:31:20LinusNelinenbe: i'm not slowing it down
01:31:35LinusNi just haven't activated the pll
01:31:53LinusNit is running at the same speed as the external oscillator
01:32:22elinenbeis that difficult to do?
01:32:27LinusNnot at all
01:32:32LinusNper se
01:32:43preglowten minute recording, no glitches that i can see
01:33:03DeadManDo iRiver use their own decoder/encoder?
01:33:15preglowDeadMan: probably motorola's
01:33:15LinusNthey probably use the motorola codec
01:33:24DeadManpreglow you recording to wav somehow?
01:33:36preglowDeadMan: cd player -> s/pdif -> h120
01:33:37DeadManor just testing with default fw
01:33:42cloudscapesDeadMan: yuh, but most likely with license restrictions
01:33:43DeadManoic
01:33:43preglowiriver
01:33:50cloudscapesor private
01:34:10DeadManpreglow load the wav into an audio editor that can view the waveform
01:34:12preglowthe license doesn't look to be very restrictive, but you have to jump through flaming hoops to get it
01:34:17preglowDeadMan: i have done that
01:34:19DeadManlook for any dropout
01:34:22preglowDeadMan: and i can't see anything
01:34:22DeadMank
01:34:28DeadManmaybe try mp3 instead of wav?
01:34:35preglowbut i'll have to record longer
01:34:37preglowwhich i won't do now
01:34:42preglowit doesn't matter anywa
01:34:42preglowy
01:34:50DeadManpreglow you might need to discuss with some MR users who have experience of the glitch
01:35:04DeadManthere is a thread on the recording side of things about it
01:35:09cloudscapesbecause you're going from diskman straight to iriver, there's no mic to pic up the mechanical glitch. that's my theory anyways x.x
01:35:19DeadManhmm. perhaps
01:35:31cloudscapesbut
01:35:42elinenbeLinusN: so, I have another question... will activating the pll speed up everything? such as gnuboy?
01:35:59LinusNyes
01:36:00cloudscapesin one of my tests, I placed the iriver on my computer case with the mic far away, and it picked up aweful buzzing
01:36:05elinenbeor is that something entirely different?
01:36:09cloudscapesbecause of electrical interference from the comp
01:36:24cloudscapesprolly it will pick up some interference from it's own hardware, even if no mic
01:36:28*cloudscapes shrugs
01:36:44*LinusN has to go to bed
01:36:49cloudscapesbut I couldn't hear some that was louder than my own breathing
01:36:52DeadManI would check this thread http://www.misticriver.net/boards/showthread.php?t=4980
01:36:54elinenbenah... it's not that late there!
01:36:58cloudscapesnitenite
01:37:00LinusNelinenbe: .-)
01:37:05LinusNnite all
01:37:08cloudscapesnn
01:37:08 Part LinusN
01:37:25DeadManI've not played with recording yet to be honest
01:37:32cloudscapesDeadMan: yeah that's an awesome guide!
01:37:50DeadMannot so important to me. My biggest concern is playback and getting gapless, otf playlists etc
01:38:14preglowargh
01:38:18preglowi need to get up in four hours
01:38:23DeadManbtw inus you get yer remote lcd from that dude yet? :)
01:38:25*cloudscapes goes back to his sonic youth + manga evening
01:38:26DeadManLinus
01:38:33preglowlinus just went to bed
01:38:37DeadManoh ok
01:39:25DeadManso can Libmad decode realtime on full speed chip does anyone know?
01:39:53linuxstbUnless I've done something stupid, it seems unlikely.
01:40:04preglowit will
01:40:06preglowsooner or later
01:40:15DeadManis that because the codec is less efficient than Motorola's?
01:40:23DeadManor just more intense to gain quality?
01:40:24linuxstbYes, I meant in it's current unoptimised state.
01:41:07DeadManI take it you have the Coldfire specs there
01:41:11linuxstbIt's possible that Motorola's decoder sacrifices accuracy for speed.
01:41:38linuxstbMAD decodes to 24-bit samples.
01:41:49DeadManonly if you select it though
01:42:29linuxstbDeadMan, No, libmad always outputs 24-bit samples, it's the players that let you select different output formats
01:42:35DeadManand the optical out will only go to 20 bit anyhow
01:42:40DeadManoh
01:43:00linuxstbPlayers normally dither down to 16-bits.
01:43:01DeadManshame the in and out are not 24 bit capable
01:43:06preglowlinuxstb: the accuracy of those 24 bit samples is a bit shady as you're using it now, i bet
01:43:23preglowlinuxstb: mad really suffers without proper 32x32 -> 64 multiply units
01:43:23linuxstbWhy do you say that?
01:43:42linuxstbSo you don't think it's accurate?
01:43:47DeadManMy surround sound decoding amp laps up 24/96 :)
01:44:03preglowlinuxstb: have a look at its default mad_f_mul
01:44:34preglowlinuxstb: probably accurate enough, it'll be more accurate once we put in emac support, though
01:44:53DeadManAC3 on iRiver via optical would be a killer application
01:47:11linuxstbpreglow: I guess it depends how it is used. There is a comment there about being within the limits of compliance.
01:48:23elinenbelinuxstb: does the audio and plugin api allow for crossfading? and will that be possible?
01:48:46preglowwho knows, it hasn't been made yet
01:48:50linuxstbDeadMan: I plan to add software decoding of AC3 (downmixing to stereo), and if the hardware allows it, we could try AC3 pass-through.
01:48:54preglowperonsally i'd love crossfading
01:49:24linuxstbIt doesn't interest me, but others have mentioned it, so I'm sure it will be in the API.
01:49:40preglowi would also love being able to mix and beatmatch with the iriver, so you could write me off as insane
01:49:46DeadManxfade is not on my want list but I would not say no to it :)
01:50:04DeadManbeatmatching lol
01:50:12*linuxstb thinks preglow needs a cluster of H120s
01:50:14DeadManthat would be tough. tough enough on pc's
01:50:16preglowhell, if you're going to crossfade, do it with style :PP
01:50:53preglowtough, hell yes, but possible
01:51:01preglowif we have enough cpu two run two decoders in parallel
01:51:18linuxstb...and process the ouputs of them
01:51:35linuxstbwhilst playing gnuboy
01:51:46preglowbut the real bummer will of course be the hardware, you'll have no way of monitoring the output seperately from the actual mixed output
01:52:16DeadManbest to have 2 sound sources/cards for that and a mixer between
01:52:23preglowof course
01:52:29preglowbut what's the fun in that ;)
01:52:34DeadManbut as a listener it does not work
01:52:40DeadManonly if you are not the DJ :D
01:52:41preglowmight as well get a couple of decks and a mixer then
01:52:41preglowheh
01:52:48DeadManyup
01:53:55 Join StrathAFK [0] (~mike@dgvlwinas01pool0-a212.wi.tds.net)
01:54:42 Join ashridah [0] (ashridah@220-253-120-201.VIC.netspace.net.au)
01:54:55preglowbut oh well
01:55:00preglowgotta get up in four hours, so off to bed
01:55:01preglowlater
01:55:10 Quit preglow ("bleh")
01:56:38*HCl yawns
01:58:20 Quit Patr3ck ()
02:00
02:00:44XShocKyou need to overclock iriver to 280mhz during crossfades between tracks. :)
02:01:42cloudscapeslol
02:01:49*cloudscapes imagines watercooled iriver
02:02:48DeadMannow that's just sill...hey. what about if we water cool iRiver? ;)
02:03:32XShocKhey, we have some liquid nitrogene here. :)
02:03:44cloudscapeswhile song A plays, deconde last 5 secs of A, and decode first 5 secs of song B. crossfade the two whilst playing song A. start playing song B five secs into it after playing crossfade clip
02:04:27cloudscapesyou can douse the electronics in certain kinds of mineral oil to not fuck up the electronics :)
02:04:28XShocKActually I think crossfade will not be very hard.
02:04:53cloudscapesI know someone did that with an old comp i na styophome bin
02:04:59XShocKI mean if we get 105% of realtime we can just decode it ahead
02:05:14cloudscapesXShocK: zactly
02:05:36DeadManstylaphone?
02:05:45cloudscapesstyrophome
02:05:50DeadManfoam
02:05:53DeadMan:)
02:05:53cloudscapesaka nature terrist
02:06:12HClmrf.
02:06:13*DeadMan had visions of Rolf Harris
02:06:19cloudscapesstyrofoam then :P
02:06:20*HCl just hopes he'll be able to get rockboy running at decent speed
02:06:26*cloudscapes 's first language isn't english
02:06:28DeadManStylaphone player extraordinaire
02:06:42cloudscapeshc1: yeah that would be ace!
02:06:48HClhcL* :3
02:06:48cloudscapeshaha
02:06:54cloudscapessoz :|
02:06:56HClwell
02:06:57HClthe last version
02:07:02HClalready runs at about 3 times as fast
02:07:04HClas the first version
02:07:20HClbut its still far from enough
02:07:23DeadManI wish for APE playback but that might noe be possible
02:07:30DeadMannot
02:07:38linuxstbDeadMan: Mainly the license issue.
02:07:50DeadManyeah sucks
02:07:55cloudscapesand the ram might be underclocked too? or something
02:08:06DeadManI can convert them all losslessly to FLAC or shorten though
02:08:19DeadManone advantage of lossless
02:09:21*DeadMan nurses a mild migraine. Bleh.
02:09:27cloudscapes:\
02:10:05DeadManI can never sleep when in pain anyhow so I just do something else to try and take my mind off it
02:10:17cloudscapesa sound plan
02:10:39DeadManI have a spare H140 sitting brand new in it's box
02:11:04 Quit Strath (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:11:39DeadManCall me dishonest but I got sent 2 by mistake. I had intended to return it but just never got around to it and they have not charged me for it or asked for it back (Amazon). Shrugs.
02:11:47cloudscapesthey're becoming rare collectors items! ;p don't open it, like comic books
02:11:53DeadManlol
02:12:05cloudscapespfff, Amazon can afford the loss
02:12:09DeadManheh
02:12:34DeadManKeep it as a spare or sell it. Oh the dilemma ;)
02:12:42HCllol.
02:12:45HCllucky.
02:13:36DeadManI got iRiver Germany to fix the remotr ticking on the one I use. I wonder what they tweaked.
02:13:57HClremote ticking?
02:14:14DeadManyes a know fault on a lot of 120/140's
02:14:18DeadManknown
02:14:29HClwhat does it do?
02:14:51DeadManif you plug in phones directly to player complete silence when music is stopped or paused
02:15:05DeadManwhen plugged into remote it would make a steady ticking sound
02:15:07*cloudscapes never uses remote
02:15:11HClo.o
02:15:12DeadManvery low volume but there nonetheless
02:15:15HClaha
02:15:18HClglad i don't have that
02:15:22DeadManwas a fault on the player not the remote
02:15:23*HCl always uses the remote
02:15:41DeadManyou have to go someplace REAL quiet and listen when nonthing is playing
02:15:56DeadMantick tick tick
02:16:41HClmk.
02:16:45*linuxstb has never taken remote out of box
02:17:05HCllol.
02:17:07DeadMannot everybody got the problem. seems to be on a certain batch of iHP's rather than H1*0's
02:17:15HClwell.
02:17:23HCli plan to use the remote for diagonal movement in gnuboy
02:17:31HCleh
02:17:32HClrockboy
02:17:39DeadMannice
02:17:44HClwell.
02:17:45HClnot really
02:17:51HClits more of a desperate thing, really.
02:17:53 Quit edx (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
02:17:57cloudscapesbetter than none at all :)
02:18:00HClmhm.
02:18:00DeadManwell joystick has no diag
02:18:34DeadManwould require 2 keys
02:18:43HClyup.
02:19:32DeadManone way to knacker out the remote double fast :D
02:19:38cloudscapescan it detect non-joystick button and joystick button simul?
02:19:56DeadMandunno
02:20:11cloudscapeshmmm
02:20:25DeadManI would think maybe
02:20:52HCli don't even know what you mean
02:20:52HClo.o
02:20:58DeadMansince on the remote you can do a press and sideways thing for folder movement. but that's just the remote
02:21:13cloudscapeslike play+up
02:21:19DeadManyeah
02:21:26HClyea, i'm sort of planning to use the previous/next for left/up and right/up
02:21:39HCland the volume thing for left/down and right/down
02:21:46cloudscapes:)
02:21:53DeadMangames pfff
02:21:54DeadMan heh
02:21:56HCland then a button for select/a/b
02:22:01HClcause you need that for zelda
02:22:13cloudscapes<3 zelda
02:22:28HClzelda will be hard, i can tell you that now.
02:22:36DeadManjust get me gapless mp3 and I will be content for the most part. everything else is just extra baggage ;)
02:22:38HClbest chance is to build a custom piece of hardware that works on the lcd port
02:22:47HClerm
02:22:49HClremote port
02:22:53*HCl is tired and needs sleep
02:23:08DeadManor something that plugs in the usb port :)
02:23:13cloudscapeslike an old nes controller adapter -> remote port
02:23:15DeadMana game controller ;)
02:23:34DeadManshame the usb has no server capability
02:23:43cloudscapesusb port won't work. usb chip is only for hd access :(
02:23:48cloudscapesyeah
02:23:50DeadMani know
02:23:58DeadManoh well
02:24:04DeadManas you said
02:24:10cloudscapesshame cause there are a lot of pre-made usb adapters for controllers
02:24:25DeadManwould need some modded hardware to plug in the remote controll port
02:25:03DeadManyou could sell those ;)
02:25:11DeadManI'd buy 1 :)
02:25:22cloudscapesas would I :)
02:25:52*DeadMan imagines sitting on a train playing on a gamepad connected to iRiver lol
02:25:55HCl :P
02:26:06HClperson who'd make it would make profits :P
02:26:17HClbut i'm not an electrical person guy
02:26:27DeadMan"Oh is that an iPoo?" "No!!!"
02:26:46DeadManshoves gamepad down commuters throat
02:26:47cloudscapesI could probably make one, though it would be fugly
02:26:59cloudscapeslike expozed pc board with wires all the place
02:27:04cloudscapesexposed even
02:27:12HClshouldn't matter
02:27:15HClas long as it works
02:27:23HClthen perfect the design and sell sell xD
02:27:31DeadMananyhow we are spamming the irc log. people read this on the webpage you know. ;)
02:27:40HClo.o
02:27:41HClpfff.
02:27:50 Join DrRick [0] (DrRick@81-86-221-211.dsl.pipex.com)
02:27:51HClwell its their choice to dig through meters of log.
02:27:54cloudscapespfff, it's semy on-topic
02:28:17DeadManI hear video playback (albeit in greyscale) is possible?
02:28:24cloudscapesOH!
02:28:32cloudscapesI had the silliest ideah yesterday
02:28:40HClmeh, you can't do much with 4 bit grayscale
02:28:40cloudscapesregarding video playback
02:28:55DeadManbetter for the color series really
02:29:10cloudscapesdisplaying subs on the remote while playing the video on main unite
02:29:16DeadManlol
02:29:22DeadMancloudscape that makes me laugh
02:29:24 Quit linuxstb (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
02:29:28cloudscapesfrom .sub/.stx files
02:29:40cloudscapescause like, sub files are fairly easy to get :p
02:29:44DeadManyour imagination goes too far :)
02:29:45cloudscapes<−−silly
02:29:54DeadManI would prefer eBook reading
02:30:09HCli agree
02:30:10HClpdf
02:30:12HClshould be possible
02:30:13HClits just.
02:30:15HClhorrid to read.
02:30:17DeadMannice font and layout and bookmark function
02:30:18HClbut yes.
02:30:20HClo.o
02:30:23cloudscapesI thought pdf be fairly closed format
02:30:29HClnah.
02:30:32cloudscapesah. cool
02:30:39HClthere are several open source readers for it..
02:30:51DeadManyes eBook pdf, txt, doc reading would be cool
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02:30:52cloudscapeswith embedded mages even?
02:30:57DeadManah ok neat
02:31:02HClhaven't really checked that.
02:31:24cloudscapespdf + zoom on iriver rockbox would rock (pun not intended)
02:31:30HClum.
02:31:35cloudscapesthough zoom + cpu melt
02:31:36HClyou seriously don't want to read a pdf on iriver
02:31:44DeadMansomeone shoot the person who decided to make the Sony Librie DRM only :P
02:31:45HClits far too small for that..
02:31:51cloudscapesnah ;p just sayign it would be funny
02:31:58HClwhats the sony librie
02:31:59HCl?
02:32:02cloudscapesnot even a priority imho
02:32:05DeadManuses eInk
02:32:14DeadMannew display technology
02:32:20DeadManit's almost like paper
02:32:23HClahh.
02:32:24HClthat.
02:32:27HClnice
02:32:30HClbut yea, drm sucks
02:32:30DeadManit is
02:32:37HCli'm not gonna buy drm enabled hardware..
02:32:45HCleventually, i'll prolly be forced to, bleh.
02:32:49DeadManI will try to avoid it where I can
02:32:54HClstill, music can always be recorded into mp3
02:33:00HClcause you have to play it back
02:33:07HCland if you can play it, you can record it again
02:33:13DeadManthey say they plugged the analog loophole :)
02:33:21HClthey cant
02:33:21HClo.o
02:33:34DeadManblack noise or something
02:33:44DeadManbut you can probably filter it out somehow
02:33:52HClthey still can't, then you put a mic in front of a speaker.
02:34:05DeadManwould not work HCI
02:34:09HClwhy not?
02:34:09HClo.o
02:34:19DeadManit's like Macrovision
02:34:24HClhrm.
02:34:32HCli don't see how you do that with sound
02:34:33HClbut ok.
02:34:34DeadManYou can't see it (or in this case hear it) until you try to record it
02:34:47HClmy xbox filters macrovision out of dvds...
02:34:47DeadManlookup black noise on google I think
02:34:51HClkay
02:35:27HClcan't find anything aside from a band called black noise
02:35:43HCland a black headphone with noise reduction xD
02:35:50cloudscapesI know about pink white and brown noise, but not black :O
02:35:51DeadMan"dark noise" copy protection
02:35:55HClkay
02:36:23*amiconn got the x11 changes to work.
02:36:33DeadMan“The technology works by encoding the original digital audio file with a unique hidden signal. The signal is embedded in the audio master and becomes an indelible part of the actual audio file in addition to aiding in subsequent origin identification. Should the original CD be copied, so, too, is the hidden signal and identification ‘tag.’ Unless illegally invoked, the listener is unaware of the hidden signal’s presence. Attempts to illegally copy the p
02:36:47amiconnFugly hacky mess though ... needs a lot of cleanup
02:36:54amiconn... but not now
02:36:58amiconnNite!
02:37:25 Part amiconn
02:37:45HClyup
02:37:50HClit only works when you encode it to mp3
02:38:02DeadManI dunno the ins and outs of it
02:38:03HClor similar
02:38:13HClah well.
02:38:31HCli'll continue disliking people who fight the freedom of other people
02:38:34cloudscapessort of reminds me of noise canceling headphones
02:38:53cloudscapeswhere an inverted version of ambient noise is applied to the output
02:38:53DeadManthey don't work very well I hear
02:38:59cloudscapestheyre not perfect
02:39:48cloudscapeswaveform + inverted waveform = silence, but it's far from perfect i na real-world scenario. taking speaker-ear distance and speed of sound into account, etc
02:42:39 Quit Ka ("* poof *")
02:43:08cloudscapesHCl: I hear ya
02:43:40HClas far as i can see, darknoise hasn't been demonstrated yet.
02:44:03HCli severely dislike america's dmca, riaa and mpaa, and not to mention microsoft
02:44:05HClbleh.
02:44:12HClland of the free my ass :/
02:44:21*HCl goes to sleep :/
02:44:28cloudscapesnn
02:45:04XShocKwhat about xAudio codec ?
02:45:10XShocKit says " For non-commercial academic or educational use, the license is free. For all other uses, upfront fees apply."
02:45:21XShocKXaudio for Embedded System
02:46:12HClhm.
02:46:25HCldoes rockbox fall under non-commercial academic or educational use?
02:46:30 Quit cYmen ("i cheated.")
02:46:34HClcause its our end users that actually end up using the codec..
02:47:28HClnight.
02:47:31cloudscapesto lawyers, rockbox may be considered "commercial use" if it helps iriver sales
02:47:36HClmhm.
02:47:36cloudscapesnight
02:47:41XShocKnight
02:47:45ashridahheh.
02:47:54ashridahhow can it assistthe sale of a product that's been discontinued?
02:48:19cloudscapeslawyers are good at figuring stuff like that out ;)
02:48:34XShocK:)
02:48:38cloudscapesbesides, yo ucan still buy it in some places, even if production has officially stopped
02:49:21 Quit DrRick ()
02:51:23hubblecloudscapes: which iriver models are discontinued H100-H300 ?
02:51:35cloudscapesh1x0's
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02:51:45cloudscapes300 is still going strong I believe
02:51:57hubblecloudscapes: doh :)
02:52:08BBubare photos of the h-110 still needed?
02:52:09 Quit hubble ("sleep")
02:52:11cloudscapesbut I'm not 100% sure about H1x0's, it's just stuff I hear :)
02:52:55cloudscapesH1x0 is the necer product imho ;) 300 is too palsticky and doesn't have al lthe audio-related featers H1x0 does
02:53:00cloudscapes*nicer even
02:53:25HCl300 has drm. says enough.
02:53:28HClbut i'm sleeping.
02:53:57cloudscapeshmmm. good point
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03:08:12*HCl stares
03:08:28*HCl wonders why his other laptop decided to reboot in the middle of the night
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04:18:34coobaha
04:18:36coob:D
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04:25:07ashridahrofl. not smart
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06:34:40shastyanyone here?
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07:21:38aliaskQuick question regarding the cpu's of the H300 series. What is its base clock speed?
07:21:56DMJChow's the sound output/cpu clock stuff coming?
07:22:57aliaskI think hubble got some stuff on it the other day, but since then I've heard nothing.
07:28:38ashridahsomeone's been poking at the emac support, preglow or someone. don't know if anyone's gotten sound output actually running.
07:29:00ashridahcodec support is coming along, although linuxstb is getting some crashes while reading data.
07:29:26ashridahthe basic answer is 'you may as well come back in a week or two, not a day to ask again'
07:31:19aliaskSo does anyone know the clock speed of the H300 series?
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07:44:39rasherGood morning
07:44:54sneakumsthe only good morning is a dead one.
07:45:22rasherVerily.
07:45:27dwihnoThe only good morning is saturday morning.
07:45:27dwihno:)
08:00
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08:04:37preglowtop of the morrow
08:04:55rasherAhoy
08:05:34Strathbuilt a jtag cable, what software would be best to test it with? :)
08:07:37preglowdunno, haven't used jtag for a couple of years
08:11:24Strathk, thx
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08:26:29rasherG'morning
08:29:56Dominmorning :-)
08:30:04HClo.o
08:30:13Domini see this great project is still alive ;-)
08:30:21HClhi
08:30:29Strathand expanding
08:30:30Dominwe should have people like you working on new kiss firmware :-P
08:30:43*HCl falls back asleep
08:33:14Dominany of you interested in doing some development on a kiss player ???
08:34:41preglowwhat's that?
08:35:58Dominwww.kiss-technology.com
08:36:12Dominethernet enabled dvd player
08:36:19Domindivx xvid player
08:36:30Dominbut firmware is crappy
08:36:38dwihnoThe mplayer guys found some strings in the firmware binary containing support for the internal mplayer subtitle format... What happened to that story?
08:36:53Dominnothing happend
08:36:57Domini saw that
08:37:17Dominbut kiss cant release source due to sigma nda
08:37:32dwihnoI understand
08:37:58dwihnoWell, why did they incorporate mplayer code then when it's obviously GPL code? People who code for money KNOW what the GPL is all about.
08:38:04dwihnoDid they think they would get away with it?
08:38:21Dominno idea
08:38:25Dominim not with kiss
08:38:38Domini just own a player and really wouldt like it to get better
08:38:45dwihnoI never implied you are :)
08:38:54dwihnoJust discussing the matter.
08:39:02Dominit can do great stuff if it just have som talented guys like you
08:39:05Domin:-)
08:39:27Dominbut yes you are right they shouldt not have included the code
08:39:47cooband then changed the strings to make it look like they didnt.
08:39:55dwihnoI see the "core team" as the talented guys, I'm just another wheel in the machinery and supplies whatever I can help out with.
08:40:14dwihnocoob: are you certain?
08:40:34coobi dunno - thats afair from the mplayerhq.hu website
08:40:44coobcheck their news archives
08:41:14Dominwell, im with www.mpeg-playcenter.com a kiss player forum
08:41:35Dominand i wish we had some more talented huys like you
08:41:47Dominsince i remember what you did with my archos
08:41:57Dominwich was basicly dead before i came here
08:43:25preglowwould not be the first time someone blatantly stole gpl code, no
08:43:37preglowthey don't seem to think it will ever be discovered if it's in the firmware
08:44:29Dominanyone got a direct link to the story
08:46:11dwihnoI've checked the news archive. Can't find anything
08:46:38Bagdergoogle for "mplayer kiss GPL"
08:46:52Bagderlots of stuff
08:46:56*Bagder runs off again
08:48:34Dominokie
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08:50:46dwihno"In an interview on Dutch radio, KISS director Peter Christensen suggested that MPlayer is likely using leaked code from KISS"
08:50:52dwihnoWhatever...
08:50:56Zagorlol!
08:51:07DMJCin reality the opposite is actually true
08:51:25dwihnoWell, the first code to use, if the source was leaked, I'd also choose the subtitle code :)
08:51:45dwihnome english guud
08:51:51Zagorespecially the "mplayer subtitle format" was obviously written by KISS
08:51:56dwihno:-)
08:51:59dwihnowell of course it is!
08:52:00dwihno:)
08:53:34Dominohh, nice i found the danish interview
08:53:39Dominlistening right now
08:53:53Dominits on the news page of the .hu site
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08:54:33Lynx_good morning!
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08:55:08dwihnoDomin: english interview?
08:55:29dwihnoI can't understand danish
08:56:30Zagorhttp://www.mplayerhq.hu/homepage/design7/news.html
08:56:40preglowahaha
08:56:43Zagorscroll to 2004.01.10
08:56:49preglowhow intelligent
08:57:04preglowand libmad and libjpeg as well
08:57:17preglowit's in firmware, obviously, so no one will ever notice it!
08:58:48Domindwihno, partly
08:58:57Dominbut they got a translation on the .hu site
08:59:05Dominjust search for kiss on the news page
08:59:12Dominits almost at the bottom
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09:02:43dwihnoI'm reading it
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09:39:54bobTHChi noble ppl ;)
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10:25:25*LinusN is home with his sick kid
10:26:23linuxstbMorning Linus, hope your kid gets well soon.
10:26:49LinusNhe'll be allright
10:27:20Domin:-)
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10:27:59linuxstbLinusN: Do you have any theories about the recording glitch, or is it just a case of wait and see how Rockbox performs?
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10:28:35LinusN*if* we're talking about dropped samples, then i think we might be able to fix it
10:28:37kurzhaarrockerYou should install an anti virus tool on your kid
10:28:44LinusNkurzhaarrocker: :-)
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10:29:19linuxstbYes, I think the major problem is dropped samples (from what I've read). The problem discussed last night sounds like something else.
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10:31:58B4gderlinuxstb: you have any idea if these codec source codes you've looked at assume 32 bit int?
10:33:25webguest23hi all, I've been trying to set up an iriver build environment in cygwin
10:33:44webguest23but get stuck when compiling binutils:
10:33:49linuxstbB4gder: libFLAC uses an inttypes.h - uint16_t, uint32_t and (sadly) uint64_t - so I created that. I think libFLAC makes a lot of use of 64-bit integers, so that's an area to look at when optimising.
10:33:50webguest23*** No rule to make target `../bfd/bfd.h', needed by `size.o'.
10:34:12webguest23Any ideas for what may be causing this?
10:34:26linuxstblibMAD uses it's own 32-bit fixed-point number format.
10:34:49B4gderlinuxstb: ok, I was just thinking ahead for the Gmini support...
10:34:53sneakumsinttypes.h is a C99 header, I believe
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10:35:32B4gderwebguest23: others have mentioned cygwin build problems before as well
10:35:51linuxstbWhat's different about the Gmini?
10:35:55B4gderI don't know if anyone has succeeded to get an iriver build env up yet
10:36:02B4gderlinuxstb: it has 16 bit ints
10:36:21linuxstbDoes that mean no 32-bit ints then?
10:36:31B4gder32 bit longs, 16 bit ints
10:36:56linuxstbSo it's just a compiling issue - it can work with 32-bit integers?
10:37:21webguest23and I'd imagine that people who could fix it use linux anyway
10:37:29B4gderyes, its just a compiling issues, but if the codecs use 'int' in the source and assume 32 bit, it would be more painful
10:38:02B4gderwebguest23: perhaps, IMHO Linux makes superior build environment anyway
10:38:09B4gdermakes a
10:38:12linuxstbI think we'll be OK, the codecs seem to define their own types for the various integer size (e.g. FLAC_uint32_t).
10:38:29B4gderthat's good
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10:46:41linuxstbIs there a reason we are not using inttypes.h (or similar) in Rockbox? Should we start using it?
10:49:39B4gderthe original reason was that we didn't need it
10:50:55amiconnlinuxstb: What would be the advantage?
10:51:13Zagorin my experience, forcing everyone to specify the bit count of every single variable tends to produce more trouble than help.
10:51:37B4gderyes, that usually makes people start thinking when they shouldn't ;-)
10:52:12dwihno:)
10:52:20linuxstbIt doesn't have to be used everywhere - people could still use int, long etc if they wanted (but why?). It would make the codec porting simpler, and keep all the int problems in one place.
10:52:37B4gderyes, it would certainly make sense for codec porting etc
10:52:38Zagoryou get new int problems instead
10:52:45LinusNindeed
10:52:46B4gderif the codecs use it of course
10:53:04LinusNpeople start using non-optimal types for no reason
10:53:24B4gderlinuxstb: people should use 'int' because it is the native prefered numerical
10:53:40amiconnFor all our architectures, 'short' is 16 bit, 'long' is 32 bit. Only 'int' size varies (16 or 32 bit), but forcing 16 bit for 32 bit architectures isn't good
10:54:07LinusNand vice versa
10:54:17amiconnI tried it with the grayscale lib, it makes the code significantly larger
10:54:42B4gderand it applies to just about every architecture out there
10:54:55***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
10:55:49amiconnI think the rules are simple. Use long if the value can become >16 bits, int otherwise. Use short only where it comes in larger quantities, i.e. arrays, to save storage space
10:56:24linuxstbBut, for example, with sound data, you need a specified number of bits.
10:57:01LinusNyes, that's one example of where you need it
10:57:31linuxstbOK, so we keep any inttype.h limited to use in the codecs and other specific cases, but don't use it in general?
10:57:44LinusNexactly
11:00
11:01:35linuxstbIs anyone interested in fixing the FAT "feature" that I found yesterday (the shortname for a file created with the name "file.wav" not having a shortname extension of .wav?). It's an issue because the iRiver firmware only seems to look at the shortname extension when determining filetypes - so a .wav file created by rockbox isn't recognised in the iRiver firmware.
11:02:23linuxstbMy hack to fix it yesterday was simply to make ".wav" the default shortname extension, so I could test my wavs in the iRiver firmware.
11:02:43 Quit webguest01 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
11:03:36Zagoroh my, that's very forbidden behaviour by iriver.
11:03:39LinusNlinuxstb: what a nice iriver bug
11:03:59linuxstblinuxstb: Yep.
11:04:05LinusN:-)
11:04:08*linuxstb must stop talking to myself.
11:05:33linuxstbBut it could be an issue with people who switch between the two firmwares.
11:05:33Zagorthe problem with keeping the extension is that it severly limits the number of available filenames
11:06:32linuxstbZagor: Why don't you just randomise the last 3 characters of the main part of the filename, and keep (as far as possible) the longname extension.
11:07:19Zagori know there was a reason I did it like that, but I can't remember it now :-(
11:07:30linuxstb:-)
11:07:51linuxstbMaybe it was just difficult to search through the string and find the original extension reliably.
11:08:02Zagorno
11:08:34linuxstbBut surely it doesn't matter which of the 11 characters are randomised.
11:09:21amiconnImho the number of files sharing the same extension tends to be higher than the number of files sharing the same characters 6..8
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11:09:45bobTHCre
11:10:06amiconnSo if the random choice is switched to the last 3 chars of the short name, the search for a unique name will be harder, and take longer
11:10:45Zagorit might also have been an issue with scandisk/chkdsk/fsck protesting against some forms of shortnames
11:11:27linuxstbBut doesn't Windows normally generate names of the form filena~1.ext ?
11:11:49Zagoryes
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11:12:19Zagorbut that is a VERY slow form, since it requires scanning the directory first to find out how many matching names exist
11:12:41amiconnI wonder what Windows does when filena~1... filena~9 are all taken
11:13:54Zagorfooooo96.bar becomes FOABCD~1.BAR
11:14:12Zagorie a 4-letter hex value. but they still keep the silly ~1 part
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11:16:10Zagorthe really boring part is that different windows versions do things differently, and accept different things...
11:17:42amiconnIirc the fat95 file system handler (Amiga) simply randomises the last characters of the shortname (like proposed by linuxstb).
11:18:01amiconnI could not observe undesired effects caused by that
11:18:14Zagori'm ok with testing that
11:18:38amiconnInstead of using hex, we could randomise a bit more by using all letters & numbers
11:18:48Zagoryup
11:19:37B4gderbase64 possibly
11:20:02amiconnNot possible, only capital letters are allowed
11:20:11B4gdersilly me
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11:21:42amiconnB4gder: I'd say FAT shortnames are silly...
11:22:04B4gderI couldn't agree more
11:24:50LinusNhmmm, 140MHz makes a difference...
11:25:18Zagorreally? :)
11:25:25Zagorlunch
11:25:50dwihnoLinusN: yay :)
11:26:28B4gder140 MHz should be enough for everyone
11:26:33B4gder:-)
11:26:36LinusN:-b
11:26:38Suckahow come it was only running at 10 or so before?
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11:26:53LinusNSucka: that's the frequency of the external oscillator
11:26:55B4gderthat _was_ enough for everyone <g>
11:27:08Suckaah i see
11:27:24LinusNthen you use the pll to multiply it
11:28:05dwihnoLinusN: so how do you notice it's faster? :)
11:28:22dwihnoLinusN: me silly. me didn't think about the demos.
11:28:37LinusNi changed the frequency but kept the timer settings
11:28:50LinusNso the backlight turns off really fast :-)
11:29:04LinusNand the key repeat is insanely fast
11:29:05Suckahehe
11:29:40B4gderRockbox- fastest keyrepeat firmware on earth
11:29:45B4gder:-P
11:30:49*linuxstb looks forward to Linus's next CVS commits
11:34:24DominLinusN, you shouldt develop firmware for the kiss player :-)
11:34:38LinusNthe what?
11:34:46Dominkiss dvd player
11:34:56Domintheire firmware is really crappy
11:35:04Dominjust like archos was before
11:35:12dwihnoLinusN: hooray for key repeat! :)
11:36:31ashridahdomin: good luck getting specs to the hardware
11:36:48ashridahand of course, if the decss is done in software, you're basically screwed
11:37:06linuxstbDomin: Yes, it's nice hardware (Linux-based DVD player with Ethernet and hard drive), but the problem is with the closed hardware MPEG2/4 decoder.
11:37:24Dominashridah, ye the specs are the hard part
11:37:32Dominsigma chip
11:37:38Dominthey wont give specs out
11:38:00B4gderDomin: send us a couple of players, and we'll start hacking
11:39:04bobTHClol
11:39:23Suckamight just watch a few films before you start, eh? ;)
11:39:29DominB4gder, deal
11:39:32Suckato "test the hardware"
11:39:40Domini might actualy manage that
11:39:52Dominif your serious about it
11:39:57ashridahDomin: well, even if you get specs, it's not going to be much use if you can only play unencrypted dvds
11:40:18bobTHCi'm sure some ppl are ready to send u tons of kiss player
11:40:20Dominwell, it runs uclinux im informed
11:40:33Dominand it playes xvid and divx
11:40:39Dominbut there are lot of problems with it
11:40:49ashridahif it's running uclinux, why do you need rockbox?
11:40:58ashridahjust jump in and start modifying it yourself :)
11:41:08Dominwell, we need someone to make a stable firmware
11:41:10Domini cant code
11:41:21Dominand we dont have the source
11:41:44Dominonly thing we can do right now i small stuff like removing macrovision
11:41:47coobdon't via have sigma drivers for their epia stuff
11:41:50coob(linux drivers)
11:42:08Dominim a mod at www.mpeg-playcenter.com
11:42:24linuxstbIt's not a low-level firmware project like Rockbox - it's "simply" a matter of rewriting the applications that run on Linux.
11:42:25Dominand we looked into getting someone to make a new firmware
11:42:35ashridahit's uclinux
11:42:42ashridahyou damned well should have the code. to the kernel at least.
11:42:51ashridahanything they've written separately themselves is another matter
11:43:03ashridahbut you've got the basis of hardware support at least.
11:43:10ashridah(or a sucky company)
11:43:10Dominwell, you can download source at www.kiss-technology.com
11:43:17Dominbut that wont get you far
11:43:53Dominthings like wireless is unstable and stuff like that
11:44:48linuxstbThe Linux hacks for the Hauppauge MediaMVP take the stock ucLinux kernel, and use the binary drivers provided by the manufacturer to build their own firmware upgrades. I imagine a project for the Kiss players could do the same thing.
11:45:20Dominwell, i really dont know seems like no one are able to
11:45:37Dominand the forum counts 17000 registred members now
11:46:00linuxstbMaybe Linux hackers just don't like Kiss.
11:46:17Dominhehe perhaps
11:46:25Dominshame thou
11:46:56Dominsince i would really like to see somthing like what was done to the xbox :-)
11:47:01Dominor archos
11:47:15Dominsince my archos player was crap before your firmware
11:47:21linuxstbDo you mean xbox-linux?
11:47:35Dominye, the mediaplay ting for xbox
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11:48:15linuxstbI think the xbox media-player project is different - it runs under the Xbox's own cut-down win2k operating system.
11:49:57Dominhmm, i thought it ran linux
11:50:04Dominbut im no expert
11:50:19Suckai think that was just some independent people managed to get it to run linux
11:50:26Suckanot related
11:50:27Dominim just a user that wouldt like the kiss player to work better
11:50:32Dominohh
11:50:34Dominokie
11:52:29preglowhah
11:52:53linuxstbMorning preglow - how's the emac coming along?
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11:53:29preglowrelatively fine, because of some spurious behaviour, i haven't been able to bloody try using it for something
11:53:48preglowthere are some shifts happening that i don't understand
11:54:42preglowbut woot, it'll be fun to see how good the codecs perform with 140 mhz coldfire
11:55:11linuxstbYep, I think FLAC will be OK, but I'm worried about libmad.
12:00
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12:11:10ashridahlinuxstb: there's at least one other coldfire-based mp3 player that does FLAC, so it should be possible
12:11:43preglowit is possible
12:11:58preglowflac IS less cpu intensive than mp3, and mp3 is no problem
12:12:16preglowit just requires heaps and heaps of asm optimization :P
12:13:46DMJCso 140mhz is working>?
12:13:52linuxstbBut libmad's desire to work to 24-bit accuracy could be slowing it down.
12:15:21linuxstbDMJC: I think Linus is still working on it, but basically yes - on his iRiver only ATM.
12:15:26DMJCk
12:15:31preglowlinuxstb: well, no, it does compromise and do 16x16 bit muls
12:15:47preglowlinuxstb: but perhaps, i don't know, i haven't looked much at the source itself
12:17:12preglowapart from fixed.h, that is
12:17:35linuxstbNo, I haven't look at the source much either.
12:20:49Suckai wonder how mario will run ;)
12:24:54B4gderDomin: I'm serious, but I won't make any promises
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12:27:34Domin:-)
12:27:44Dominwell, i will most sertaintly look into it
12:28:06Dominthe last one who developed a mod firmware for it got a kiss player for free
12:29:28linuxstbB4gder: You'll basically need to implement a software DVD player. Even Xine and Ogle don't work 100% with all DVDs.
12:29:49linuxstbThat's ignoring all the other media formats you will be asked to support.
12:29:57Dominwell, dvds are the smalles problem with it
12:30:12Dominxvid and divx are more importent
12:30:20linuxstbBut a replacement firmware (not a hacked firmware) will have to reimplement everything the current player can do.
12:30:21B4gderI'd only agree to hack on it, not to write heaps of software that would make everything imaginable
12:30:28preglowlinuxstb: seems like it contains a hardware decoder
12:30:33Dominhehe
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12:30:50linuxstbpreglow: but that's only to help with the MPEG video decoding. That's just a small part of a DVD player.
12:30:55Dominwell, if perhaps some one wouldt just get started then other will follow im sure of
12:31:05preglowsure, but it's a big part
12:31:13Dominand as i see it you guys are the most qualifyed
12:31:34linuxstbWell, the big problem is to start something, set up the development environment, and get real-time MPEG2/4 playback out of it.
12:31:37preglowDomin: what exactly sucks about the firmware?
12:32:04jypAnyone know if Linus (or someone) implemented the variable CPU speed?
12:32:28B4gdernope
12:32:39sneakumslinus has it running at 140mhz, i thought.
12:32:46sneakumsor is that different
12:32:48B4gdervariable CPU speed is set for later
12:32:51Zagorjyp: one step at a time
12:33:03sneakumsoh, dynamic?
12:33:03jypJust a question
12:33:48jypI need to set the CPU speed in the gmini port; so if it was already done I could put my code in the right place
12:34:00preglowis the rockbox malloc usable right now? or even present?
12:34:01Dominpreglow, lots of freezes
12:34:09B4gderpreglow: not present right now
12:34:16Dominlots of lacking supports for formats
12:34:27Domindvd playback is crappy
12:34:30preglowDomin: like which formats?
12:34:45Dominwell, for once you cant stream ogg from net
12:35:01linuxstbB4gder: I don't think we need them. So far, I am just using a trivial malloc implementation (with no free or realloc). I think that will also work OK for the real codec implementation.
12:35:04Dominstreaming of video contents wouldt also be a possibilit
12:35:17Dominwmv support
12:35:21Dominfrom net
12:35:35Dominbetter support of wireless netcards
12:35:37B4gderlinuxstb: cool, I'll hold off the malloc stuff until we hit a wall ;-)
12:36:24Dominhehe, archos is actualy on the front page of the www page now
12:36:46B4gderwhat front page?
12:37:09Dominwww.mpeg-playcenter.com
12:37:22Dominkiss player forum
12:38:33linuxstbpreglow: Do you need malloc() for anything?
12:38:45Dominhttp://www.jacek.it.pl/kiss/index_en.html <−− there is a bit of info on the file system there
12:39:25DominBy the way what do you guys use to program in ???
12:39:51preglowlinuxstb: nothing i can think of
12:39:54linuxstbDomin: Is there anything a Kiss player can do that an XBox running Linux can't do?
12:41:15B4gderDomin: rockbox is C, with small parts in asm
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12:45:27ZagorDomin: personally I wouldn't feel very good about helping a company that is knowignly voilating the GPL
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12:46:37linuxstbZagor: I agree, but I thought Kiss had been in contact with the MPlayer people and it was resolved?
12:46:55preglowreally?
12:47:11preglowfunny mplayer people haven't mentioned it
12:47:35linuxstbI think the discussions happened privately, and for some reason the MPlayer people don't talk about it.
12:48:14linuxstbBy "privately", I mean only amongst the MPlayer copyright holders.
12:49:13preglowthey should talk about it after having made a fuss like that
12:50:22linuxstbI agree, but I haven't heard any more complaints about Kiss from the MPlayer people themselves.
12:51:09linuxstbWhich is why I think it's been resolved somehow. But someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
12:52:44Zagorthe mplayer authors are not exactly known for their communication skills... :-)
12:52:59linuxstbtrue
12:53:11ashridahthey're also decidedly ignorant of legal matters
12:53:25Zagoryes
12:54:07linuxstbashridah: It's probably a good thing for mplayer users that they are.
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12:57:57rasherMaybe they got paid to relicense to KISS and don't want to talk about that
12:58:52preglowrasher: that's exactly the kind of conclusions people will draw if they don't announce the outcome
12:59:13preglowand ignoring legal matters in exchange for money doesn't exactly make you a good example
13:00
13:00:15rasherWell relicensing for money is a perfectly fine solution I'd say
13:00:25rasherKISS should just have done that from the start, mind
13:00:37rasher(assuming the code is theirs to relicense)
13:01:01preglowahh, relicense, yes
13:01:08preglowthat's a possibility
13:01:36rasherLike what trolltech does with qt
13:02:02preglowyes, tons of examples of that
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13:06:43ashridahi appear to be missing bits of this. what have kiss done or alledged that mplayer have done/
13:06:45ashridah?
13:07:04B4gderused mplayer code
13:07:30B4gderMplayer claims KISS used mplayer code and thus violated GPL
13:08:02linuxstbI think it's undisputed - typing "strings firmware.bin" displayed lots of symbols used in Mplayer's own subtitle code.
13:08:27B4gderyes, but I believe KISS claimed otherwise
13:08:49linuxstbOh yes, the famous claim that MPlayer stole KISS's code :-)
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13:19:41ashridahreminds me of an episode a long time ago when someone ripped of samba's source and passed it off as his own product
13:19:51ashridaheventually the samba team
13:20:12ashridahgot their proof simply because the guy left an nfs share open to the internet with the source on it :)
13:20:42Lynx_ashridah: ah, the whole time i have been thinking where i heard of a similar situation, and that was it. didn't the samba guys even sue?
13:23:32ShulberrySigma Designs stole from the Xvid people.. http://www.xvid.org/press/press-20020822-en.html?source=240802
13:24:29rasherthere's been millions of these cases.. CherryOS, some cd-recording software.. the list is endless
13:25:35ashridahLynx_: the guy had to capitulate, i don't recall it getting to court
13:26:58sneakumswhat a wnoderful world
13:27:00ashridahhe even tried obfuscating his binaries when the samba team challenged him about it, so they resorted to binary comparisons
13:27:11ZagorGPL cases never get to court - they are always settled
13:27:20ashridahcame up with hysterically larges amounts of matching patterns
13:27:30ashridahZagor: the closest has been the mysql case in germany
13:27:57preglowif an asm() statement has no declared output, will gcc remove it altogheter?
13:28:15Zagormysql? i thought the netfilter case was the only one that has actually seen a ruling.
13:31:27ripnetukoff topic (ish) question - how do I ask your cvs for all commit summaries for the last week (kinda like the rockbox.org frontpage but with more entries?)
13:32:38amiconnpreglow: You can mark an asm statement as 'volatile' to prevent it from being moved/deleted
13:32:50preglowamiconn: yeah, i know, just wanted to know if gcc does things like that
13:32:58Zagorripnetuk: cvs rlog -d "2004-02-07<now"
13:33:14preglowmy statement didn't make it to asm for far stupider reasons than that ;)
13:33:18ripnetukthanks Zagor
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13:34:16Zagorripnetuk: log, not rlog
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13:34:40quelsarukafternoon
13:34:41Zagor...and 2005 obviously :)
13:35:11quelsarukhi Zagor
13:35:14Zagorhi
13:36:53amiconnpreglow: Yes, gcc does optimize asm statements. See http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc-3.0.4/gcc_5.html#SEC104
13:38:01preglowwoot
13:38:05preglowthink i get emac now
13:38:11preglowreading docs _thoroughly_ is not a bad idea
13:38:26rasherNice one
13:38:32rasheramiconn: you asked for me last night?
13:39:09amiconnYeah, I wanted you to test my x11 stuff. I thought it's ready, but unfortunately it needs some more work...
13:39:36rasherAh
13:39:48amiconnI don't get the 'Unexpected asynchronous event' anymore, but sporadic freezes instead :(
13:40:05rashertragic
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14:13:09ripnetukit would be cool if the homepage (rockbox.org) showed at least twice as many 'recent cvs activity' lines during these times of loads of dev... thats the only way people can see progress in the project at the moment (without scannign irc logs)... i tried the cvs log command , but it spits out LOADS of info, not just the commit comments
14:13:27ripnetukeven better, a input box allowing the user to choose a range of dates to query
14:14:04HCl_mmm
14:14:10HCl_that line with rlog didn't work for me
14:14:21 Nick HCl_ is now known as HCl (hcl@titania.student.utwente.nl)
14:14:28ashridahHCl_: i just subscribed to the cvs log mailing list
14:14:43ripnetukit was log not rlog
14:14:52ripnetukZag posted a correction just below
14:15:08ashridahripnetuk: encouraging ordinary non-developers to use bleeding edge code is a double edged sword
14:15:12ripnetuki am subscribed to the mailing list but its a pita to have to dig out hte email (i know i know... )
14:15:42ripnetukash - yes its not for everyone.. only those of us who think new cool features are more important than reliability :)
14:15:47ripnetuklike me
14:15:50rashereven better, the rebirth of http://www.rockbox.org/digest/
14:15:54HClamiconn: awake?
14:16:02ripnetukrasher - it needs to be automatic
14:16:09rasherah
14:17:35ripnetukalso cvs mailing list is not IMMEDIATE :)
14:18:48Zagorit's more immediate than the front-page, which only updates every 20 minutes
14:18:51rasherPatience :)
14:19:32ashridahi only ever really look through the cvs logs once a day anyway, so the mailing list suits me fine
14:20:55ripnetukmaybe im on digest and need to be not on digest - i willc heck
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14:25:16ripnetuk<blush> I withdraw my complaint - cvs log email on non-digest is what I was after :) thanks </blush>
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14:34:20amiconnHCl: I'm here
14:34:51HClamiconn: made any changes to gnuboy? want to take a look at making it run in the sim
14:35:08HClrockboy(
14:35:09HCl*
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14:49:36amiconnHCl: Not yet. Was looking into the X11 sim timing/ button handling.
14:50:05HClok
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15:12:40jypIs random generation performance critical?
15:12:57jypI ask because I wonder if I should bother optimizing it for 16bits,
15:13:06jypor just s/int/long ?
15:20:49Zagorspeed is non-critical, correctness is more important
15:22:22jypCorrectness is always more important than speed :)
15:23:20jypAlso, this is since I can give in to my natural laziness ;)
15:24:17jyp.. Two great sentences taken from my personal 'famous quotes' handbook
15:24:26jyp(err, three)
15:24:29jyphaha
15:24:31jyphm
15:29:42*jyp should have used a smaller gun
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16:36:05HClpeople are boring..
16:36:59preglowno shit
16:37:23rasherWhat are people working on?
16:37:46HCli'm mostly waiting on linus pushing 140mhz stuff
16:37:48preglowi'm trying to understand the fractional mac mode again
16:37:48preglowheh
16:37:55HClso i'll know whether i need to make a dynarec or not
16:37:59preglowHCl: he's got a sick kid around
16:38:10preglowso don't hold your breath
16:38:12HCli'm not in a hurry or anything
16:38:14HCljust saying
16:39:39HCligh.
16:39:47HClwelp, back to my math class u.u
16:39:51HClafk.
16:46:37 Join Hohoman [0] (~inte@hohoman.olf.sgsnet.se)
16:47:32 Quit H2O ("CGI:IRC")
16:47:40 Join Rori [0] (Rori@deadman3000.plus.com)
16:47:43RoriYo
16:51:02bobTHChi
16:55:01***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
16:56:30 Join einhirn [0] (Miranda@carlsberg.heim2.tu-clausthal.de)
16:57:03Rorianyone coding for iRiver today? :)
16:58:16Rorihey a new thing appeared in the list of todos
16:58:31Rorijust when I thought only 5 more things to do it becomes 6 ;)
16:58:43preglowwhat would that be?
16:58:51RoriNot that I know what an I2C and I2S driver does
16:58:59RoriI2S driver added
16:59:02sneakumsthey do stuff.
16:59:03sneakumsand things.
16:59:05preglowit's in the works
16:59:07Roriyeah heh
16:59:26preglowyou don't really need i2c and i2s drivers per se, the coldfire does most of the dirty work
16:59:44preglowhubble has gotten sound partially working, and that requires both i2c and i2s
16:59:49Roriit's nice to have everything running to completion though neh?
17:00
17:00:00 Join webguest82 [0] (~51898d99@labb.contactor.se)
17:00:28 Quit webguest82 (Client Quit)
17:01:49Rorishould it be sine wave and not sin wave? Or do they just pronounce it like sign but spelled as sin? :)
17:02:27Suckaspelt sine, pronounced sign, abbreviated to sin
17:02:41Suckabecause mathematicians are lazy
17:02:51Rorilol
17:02:53preglowspelled sine, yes
17:02:58sneakumsthe function is sin but the wave is sine.
17:03:08linuxstbit matches cos and tan
17:03:32linuxstbWhich are _really_ long words...
17:03:33preglowsneakums: well, you do say stuff like 'take the sine of x'
17:03:34Roricosine
17:03:52Roribut I have heard cosine pronounced cozeen :)
17:03:58Suckawhat a geeky conversation ;D
17:04:18bobTHClol
17:04:20RoriSucka this is a geeky channel ;)
17:04:35preglowhaha
17:04:36 Nick Rori is now known as DeadMan (Rori@deadman3000.plus.com)
17:04:41preglowwe hack hardware, go figure
17:04:42DeadManya
17:05:29DeadManwell I don't I just sit here and pretend to know what I am talking about and let the real geeks get on with it. I'm just here for personal gain :)
17:06:12bobTHCas all of us ;)
17:06:39 Part Zagor
17:06:53Suckahehe
17:06:59DeadManMy electricity bill is getting worse these days. Damn fuel rises.
17:08:23DeadManHey does anyone know about the voltages on the H series?
17:08:25 Join webguest41 [0] (~c10b28cf@labb.contactor.se)
17:09:20 Quit webguest41 (Client Quit)
17:09:24DeadManI was wondering. It's 5v right? I wanted to recharge from a battery pack. But 4xAA is 1.5v = 6v which is too much right?
17:09:30 Join Chamois [0] (~3e234217@labb.contactor.se)
17:09:39Suckait says on the bottom
17:09:45Suckawhere you plug in the charger iirc
17:09:50DeadManwould 6v kill it?
17:09:55preglowDeadMan: yes, but it can probably take too much
17:10:04preglowthere's a voltage regulator in the somewhere
17:10:33DeadManOtherwise it's 4xAA rechargeables at 1.2v or 1.25v each
17:10:54DeadManI liked the idea of using AA's Alkalines bought from a shop though
17:11:14DeadManbut if it will fry the player it's no good
17:11:33 Quit ripnetuk (Remote closed the connection)
17:11:36preglowit won't
17:11:39preglowi'm pretty sure of that
17:11:50DeadMan6v 4x AA's won't fry it?
17:11:54Suckapreglow: better add a disclaimer to that statement :p
17:11:57preglowsix just might ;)
17:12:03preglowehh
17:12:08preglowno, i don't think that'll fry it
17:12:10DeadMan1.5v x 4 AA's
17:12:15preglowbut hell, of course i want guarantee it
17:12:18Sucka:D
17:12:19DeadManlol
17:12:21preglowall my advice comes with no warranty
17:12:25DeadMan:P
17:12:33DeadManI'll ask Linus XD
17:14:00DeadManwhat is a bdm wiggler? :)
17:14:50preglowdebug module
17:15:06DeadManoh
17:15:59DeadManI am so glad I bought an iRiver H series. I never knew about RockBox until I already bought it
17:16:29DeadManiPoo can kiss my optical out :)
17:17:37*rasher sighs
17:17:47rasherCould we stop with the childish name-calling already?
17:18:51DeadManKnew that would stir someone. Hey someone seems to think there is a NES emulator on the horizon. I think they got the wrong end of the stick.
17:19:14preglowwell, there would be a colour problem..
17:19:29preglowand a resolution problem
17:19:34DeadManindeed
17:19:51DeadManmight be ok on the 3x0 series though
17:19:57Chamoisdoes linusN work on IriverPort today ?
17:19:58HClugh.
17:19:59rasherI'm just really sick and tired of things like Micro$soft, iPoo etc.. no it's NOT clever, no it's NOT funny.. *sigh
17:20:04preglowyou'll still have the resolution problem
17:20:06rasher</rant>
17:20:21preglowChamois: perhaps, wait and see
17:20:35Chamoisok
17:20:42rasherHe tends to suddenly appear saying "I just implemented <feature>"
17:20:43DeadManah just a bit of banter. everything has it's good points and bad points.
17:21:10Chamoisrasher : I liove LinusN when he does thongs lik that
17:21:16preglowrasher: kind of necessary, otherwise you'd be stuck on irc explaining to fifty different people what you're planning on doing, heh
17:21:56bobTHC:)
17:22:04DeadManI like The Register's term for the RIAA. The Recording Ass. of America :)
17:22:43 Quit sneakums ("release to detonate")
17:22:48rasherActually, it'd be cute with a "currently working on: " status page in the wiki :)
17:22:55rasherit could be updated from people's personal pages
17:23:00HClyea.
17:23:07HCli suggested that a while ago
17:23:26HCla list with projects/plugins/stuff that needs work
17:23:33HClthat people can choose to work on
17:23:57DeadManwould save duplicating work
17:24:19HCland get bored people to work on different stuff
17:24:20HCllike me.
17:24:55rasheror it'd fend off people asking for "What's happening?"?!?!?"
17:25:00 Join XShocK [0] (~cddef002@labb.contactor.se)
17:25:08rasherbut *srug*
17:25:27DeadMandoes anyone have experience with PDA's? I was thinking about a Dell Axim X50v
17:25:37HClzaurus units are fairly sweet.
17:25:40DeadManmainly for the nice VGA screen
17:25:48HCllinux based etc..
17:26:05DeadManI want something that's good for eBooks
17:26:28HClwouldn't really know, i'm planning to buy the successor of the zaurus cl3000
17:26:36*DeadMan googles it
17:26:47HCler actually
17:26:50HClits sl-c3000
17:26:59DeadManloosk nice
17:27:00HClits like a mini laptop thats the size of a pda
17:27:04HClwith a 4gb harddisk
17:27:11HCland i think it might have builtin wifi
17:27:12HClnot sure
17:27:19DeadManpullout keypad
17:28:19DeadManhttp://www.sharpusa.com/products/ModelLanding/0,1058,1255,00.html
17:28:23DeadManlooks sweet
17:28:29HClno
17:28:32HClnot the 6000
17:28:39HCli have one like that.
17:28:47HClthe sl-c3000 is much nicer
17:29:13HClhttp://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000673022159/
17:29:28DeadManeven better
17:29:41DeadMansharp's website is annoying to use
17:29:46HCli have the 5500 at the moment, which is pretty much like the 6000
17:29:59HClthe 3000 is a unit made in japan, really, i'm not sure if its for sale yet here
17:30:09HCljapan = way ahead of us
17:30:18DeadManas usual
17:30:33HClanyways,
17:30:36HClits deadly expensive
17:30:53HCli'm kind of waiting for someone that'll give me integrated phone/digital cam/pda
17:30:58HClanyways.
17:31:00HCli gotta go home
17:31:12DeadManttfn
17:31:31DeadManprice = O.O
17:32:00HClyup.
17:32:12HClbbl.
17:32:54*DeadMan wanders off idle for a bit too. Don't want to annoy any developers ;)
17:38:05 Quit XShocK ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
17:44:15linuxstbHCl: You mean the Nokia 9500? Phone, PDA, Camera, Wi-fi, Bluetooth.
17:45:13bobTHCcoffee ,tea, snacks,
17:45:37bobTHC;)
17:47:15bobTHCthis kind of device are "too much things in one"(tm) for me
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17:49:00preglowhahah
17:49:05preglowi'd just like the phone part
17:49:09preglowthat's that
17:49:58bobTHCimagine just a sec u loose it
17:51:40bobTHCu are like a whitebear without fur :)
17:51:58preglowhahah
17:58:20 Quit Patr3ck_ ("User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby")
18:00
18:00:06linuxstbI've got another codec almost running on the iRiver - a52dec runs at about 6.3% on a 128kbps stereo file. I say almost, because there are problems with the decoded output.
18:00:32rasherGood work!
18:01:38rasheryou should add that (and libmad) on http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/RockboxAudioAPIProposal
18:01:54preglowdamn, you're chugging through 'em
18:02:10rasherIndeed
18:02:13rasherVery nice going
18:03:17linuxstbThe code is still very rough, I'll stop at ogg, and then go back through them all, trying to find a consistent abstraction layer for all the libraries - that can then almost become the codec API.
18:04:34rasherWho was it that had been looking at modplug?
18:05:14rasherI'm thinking it'd be nice if one of the non-streaming "codecs" were ready in time for the api
18:05:53linuxstbI agree. But we can pretty much imagine what the API will need to be for them.
18:06:00rasherokay
18:06:05 Quit webguest74 ("CGI:IRC")
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18:06:41linuxstbWe just give them a chunk of memory, and set them going. They'll keep spitting out PCM data until they either come to the end of the track or the user presses NEXT.
18:07:07 Join Cassandra_ [0] (~christi@213.78.125.69)
18:07:08rasherheh
18:08:05amiconnlinuxstb: 3rd option - set a timeout for non-streaming codecs without end-of-track detection
18:08:32linuxstbamiconn: Yes, good idea.
18:08:42elinenbelinuxstb: once the pll is up and running, then all your codec's should run at real-time (assuming no problems)
18:09:03linuxstbelinenbe: I'm not sure about that, but we'll see what happens.
18:09:22elinenbewell, I hope they work ;)
18:09:53rasherlinuxstb: looks like at least modplug does playtime and seeking fairly well
18:11:03rasheradmittedly, based on trying 15 mods
18:11:19amiconnIt depends on the module format. Some allow end-of-track detection, some don't. Same goes for seeking. Some formats allow pattern-wise seek
18:11:45elinenbesounds good.
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18:12:18 Quit elinenbe (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Try something fresh")
18:12:28rasheryeah, I'm just saying that non-streaming codecs should at least be able (but not required) to seek and provide playtime
18:12:30amiconnThe classic Amiga 4-channel formats (Sound-/Noise-/Protracker, Startrekker) support both. Same goes for MED/OctaMED/Oktalyzer
18:12:55 Join Luke1 [0] (~a@dpc691997050.direcpc.com)
18:13:04Luke1Hi guys
18:13:37bobTHChi
18:14:01linuxstbWell, the API will have an is_seekable() function that depend on the actual file being decoded. So that's covered. We also need to allow for infinite running times when asking a codec how long a particular track runs for.
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18:14:52amiconnlinuxstb: I'd suggest the codec should return -1 for infinite
18:15:05Luke1I'm still having a weird problem with no sound on my JB FM Recorder. people have suggest trying to bend back something in the audio jack, but I don't fully understand what they mean. I'm wondering if anyone here is familiar with that
18:15:28elinenbe_LinusN: nice work... I see you've got some sound output working on the iriver!
18:15:31elinenbe_cool beans!
18:15:34linuxstbamiconn: Maybe. But we may also need "unknown" - which is different to infinite.
18:15:49Chamoiselinnebe : it's not linus but hubble
18:16:08elinenbe_sorry −− I missed that... double-nice
18:16:16elinenbe_where is he?
18:16:35Chamoisa developper like others
18:18:48rasherHm, I appear to have Scream-, Impulse-, Fast- and Pro-tracker modules here
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18:22:53 Quit bobTHC ("( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 3.81 :: www.XLhost.de )")
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18:55:05***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
18:55:56 Join Tang [0] (~chatzilla@AMontsouris-108-1-19-173.w80-15.abo.wanadoo.fr)
18:58:49Tanghello
18:59:05linuxstbHola
19:00
19:02:36*DeadMan sings "I want m...I want my...I want my MP3"
19:03:19DeadManDiar Straits and Chris Rea join forces to form Diar Rea
19:03:40Tang:)
19:03:52TangSeen the latests progress in the wiki
19:03:53Tangnice
19:04:00DeadManis cool yup
19:04:05Tangwhy this isn't in the latest CVS table?
19:04:14DeadManthere is stuff going on that's not on the wiki too
19:04:48DeadManthings are beginning to gel
19:08:03Tanggel?
19:08:13DeadManform
19:08:56Tanghum ie progress?
19:09:10DeadMancome together I guess
19:10:27TangOkay
19:10:34TangLinus not here?
19:10:54TangI worry if my dead remote will never reach him
19:11:19DeadManah it's you :)
19:11:58DeadManprobably why the remote lcd is not done only the buttons :)
19:12:35amiconnDeadMan: There's a different reason for this
19:12:47DeadManoh
19:13:32amiconnSupport oof remote lcd requires quite some rework. Rockbox does not yet have a concept of multiple screens.
19:13:57DeadManoic yeah makes sense
19:14:12DeadManno archos ever had that
19:14:13amiconnPlus, I'd say there are other things which are far more important
19:14:27preglowyes, like everything else, for example
19:14:31 Quit Schnueff (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
19:15:16DeadManthat could take time
19:15:30DeadManget the main unit up and running first I say :)
19:17:01TangMaybe
19:17:07Tang(at deadman)
19:17:18Tangbut not sure my dead remote will be usable
19:18:21Tangsince the connectot isn't suable
19:18:24Tang(broken)
19:18:54jypYahahahaaa... I got audio to work on the Gmini ;)
19:19:01 Join chamois [0] (~3e234217@labb.contactor.se)
19:19:06TangNice!
19:19:07Tang:)
19:19:09jypA nice 1000Hz continuous square wave ;)
19:19:12DeadManI am sure he can get around that if he knows electronics
19:19:12Tanghi Chamois
19:19:22Tangyou're the same chamois from hfr?
19:20:08chamoisyes
19:21:18rasherjyp: Congratulations :)
19:21:30jypthanks ;)
19:21:50amiconnjyp: Congrats
19:22:01Tangokay
19:22:16TangYep bravo jyp!
19:22:22amiconnI wonder which platform will play the first sound file earlier - iriver or gmini?
19:22:45jyphaha... If it is a small wave file this can even be done today ;)
19:23:06Tanglol
19:23:07jypBut I'd rather wait for you to do it and just port ;)
19:23:18jypMy laziness strikes again ;)
19:24:00Tanglol iHPiste will sign a petition
19:24:12rasherOh?
19:24:33rasherWho or what is iHPiste, and which petition?
19:24:37Tangso that jyp work on audio support to accelrate it integration to iRiverport
19:24:45Tangwas just a joke
19:24:56TangiHPiste= iHP owners
19:25:08jypha ;)
19:25:33amiconnjyp: I'm interested in a tech detail. You already told me that the lcd format for gmini 2xx is different from the other archoses & iriver, and pointed me to the TCC730 datasheet.
19:26:12amiconnHowever, iiuc the gmini 1xx uses the same TCC730, and this is a soc including the lcd controller
19:26:12jypamiconn: I'm eager to tell you ;)
19:26:50jypsoc ?
19:26:51amiconnSo I can't imagine the difference between controlling the two lcds...
19:27:02amiconnsoc == system on chip
19:27:21jypActually 120, SP, XS200 uses an external lcd controller (I think)
19:27:30jyponly 220 uses the internal one
19:28:00amiconnAh ok. So lcd data format for != 220 is similar to archos jb/ iriver?
19:28:37jyp120 & SP is just the same as recorder;
19:28:53amiconn..just a little wider lcd
19:29:01jypXS200, I've only given it a quick glance;
19:29:02jypyup
19:29:16jypSo I just *guess* it is the same as iRiver
19:29:30amiconnI wonder why archos didn't use the internal controller and added another chip instead...
19:29:39amiconn(for 1xx/ sp, that is)
19:30:17amiconnAnother question: What's the lcd resolution for gmini 220?
19:30:34jyp160*160
19:30:46jypup to 4bpp
19:30:51amiconnOooh... that beats iRiver!
19:31:08jypI told you this is a great machine :P
19:32:32 Join Stryke` [0] (~Chairman8@resnet-241-86.resnet.UMBC.EDU)
19:34:18HClhello
19:36:10jypAnswers to questions not asked ...
19:36:33jypAudio chip is configured via I2C
19:36:43jypAudio data is sent via I2S
19:36:48amiconnSounds familiar
19:37:16jypI don't know, but the commands to the audio chip might be similar
19:37:21preglowjyp: it's a 16 bit architecture?
19:37:39jypJust tell me if you want my code
19:37:43jyppreglow: yes
19:38:27amiconnThe hw codec in the archos (and the separate dac in case of the player) are also i2c-controlled, and audio data (in this case still mp3 compressed) is fed through i2s
19:38:42preglowjyp: will be fun porting codecs, then
19:39:08*amiconn is back to square one with 2 problems...
19:39:18jyppreglow: indeed
19:40:47amiconnjyp: Does the calmrisc gcc know 'long long' == 64 bit?
19:41:05jypamiconn: It should
19:41:12jypif not i'll fix it
19:41:21jypAudio chip: http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/tlv320aic23b.html
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19:44:29preglowamiconn: does rockbox even use long longs?
19:45:08jypamiconn: I just tested it, it is handled
19:45:25amiconnpreglow: Rockbox itself does not, but some plugins do
19:45:34jypIt's bad for register usage though ,)
19:45:46hubbleLinusN: what do you think about making the registers in mcf5249.h "volatile" ?
19:46:29TanglinusN isn't here, lol...
19:46:31preglowlong longs are bad
19:46:47amiconnjyp: I wonder if plugins can work at all on gmini. Iiuc this is a harvard cpu, so we'd need enough free program ram to support plugins.
19:46:51preglowand in gmini's case, even longs are bad, heh
19:47:13hubbleLinusN: had a little problem when I had to write several 0 to the same registers and the optimizer threw them away =)
19:48:00hubbleTang: only 5h idle =)
19:48:04jypamiconn: we have only 16k internal ram for code
19:48:28TangHubble: :)
19:48:29jypbut, maybe there will be enough space in the rom to load all the plugins
19:49:04TangSo guys i'm out
19:49:16TangGood continuation :)
19:49:28jypFull rockbox w/o plugins is 150k now
19:49:42Tangand if LinusN appers just say him i've sent him a PM on the board
19:49:48Tang(for the remote)
19:49:50jypthere's at least 512k of flash memory
19:49:55Tangcheers
19:50:12*jyp tips hit has
19:51:22amiconnjyp: You mean flashing all plugins?
19:51:26jypyup
19:51:50jyp... just thought, maybe there's much more than I think
19:52:14amiconnAll recorder plugins add up to 245 KB. Some don't apply to gmini, so it may fit, if we throw away the original firmware
19:52:29 Quit Tang ("Chatzilla 0.9.66 [Mozilla rv:1.7.5/20041108]")
19:52:38amiconn(assuming roughly equal binary size)
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19:52:56muesli-high
19:53:38jypamiconn: we'll see in due time, when we'll how the relative sizes of flash & main code for all the models
19:54:01jypcoz I think they've put different flash sizes
19:54:07jypdepending on model
19:54:09amiconnjyp: Of course rockboy won't fit. Too bad, the 220's display would be ideal...
19:54:51jypI think the 220 has 1Mo flash
19:54:56jypso maybe
19:55:42jypHow big is the binary for iRiver ?
19:55:58amiconn~620 KB iirc
19:56:43*HCl bites his new 1gb of ram
19:56:53jypmight turn out to be a tight fit ;)
19:57:45jypAnd if all else fails I can work on gcc to optimize better too ;)
19:57:58amiconngcc -Os
19:58:23jypUsing Os saves approx 20% as it stands
20:00
20:00:58guerbypinskia, I didn't notice the ICE was the same as 19851. The code pattern comes from one of my app where it is used all over the place.
20:02:00 Quit BBub (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
20:02:00 Nick BBub_ is now known as BBub (belzebub16@dsl-213-023-069-030.arcor-ip.net)
20:05:48preglowamiconn: i thought you said rockbox couldn't handle -Os
20:06:10amiconnpreglow: Yes, on archos/SH1
20:06:18amiconnDid you try on iRiver?
20:06:24guerbyoops wrong channel :)
20:06:51jypSo, what's the state of the art wrt. decoding/sound framework? http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/RockboxAudioAPIProposal up to date?
20:07:10preglowamiconn: no, i didn't, i tried O2, and Os is essentially O2 with a couple of suboptions left out
20:08:02amiconnHow is that? I once compared binary sizes, and got (-Os) < (none) < (-O) < (-O2)
20:08:12preglowjyp: linuxstb is plowing through the codecs we're going to use right now, so we're waiting to see if he has any conclusions
20:08:53preglowamiconn: Os is O2 with the options that increase code size left out
20:09:04amiconnpreglow: Rockbox couldn't handle -O2 on archos/SH1 either
20:09:16preglowamiconn: but no, it has to be tried, of course
20:09:22HClmy last rockboy build was with -O2
20:09:26amiconnI got cpu IllInstr exceptions right at the start
20:09:34HClworked fine
20:09:35HClfaster too
20:09:38preglowHCl: nothing wrong with O2, it's just that rockbox itself doesn't like it
20:09:42HClok
20:09:51amiconn(from memory addresses that don't actually exist (!) )
20:09:53preglowhell, i regularily use O3 on other platforms
20:09:57preglowamiconn: not bad
20:10:09HCli'm planning to try an -O3
20:10:10jyppreglow: alright; I understand you work on the decoders ?
20:10:28preglowjyp: no, i'm trying to figure out dsp stuff, linuxstb is the codec guy
20:10:46jyppreglow: ok
20:11:13amiconnpreglow: I guess a number of asm statements is lacking the 'volatile' qualifier
20:11:33jypMy thoughts were we should find the most common route between gmini & iRiver
20:11:46preglowamiconn: that would probably be my guess as well
20:12:15preglowjyp: well, what differences should there be?
20:12:46jypFirst thing, you are writing asm code, right ?
20:12:58preglowahhh
20:13:08preglowlike that
20:13:08preglowyes
20:13:14preglowi'm making c macros
20:13:23preglowdo you have any calmrisc docs lying around?
20:13:38jypI sure do.
20:13:56jypAll is in the "DataSheet"
20:13:57preglowthe coldfire mac unit is pretty strange, so might take some work
20:14:15preglowait, i'll have a look
20:14:18jypThe CalmMAC2424 might be even stranger
20:14:21jyp;)
20:14:50jypwww.mculand.com/sub1/mcu/calmrisc16_device/S3cc410.pdf
20:15:17 Quit chamois ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
20:16:53amiconnImho it would be useful if some iRiver dev compiles main rockbox with different -O and checks if it works, if that's not too risky
20:17:17 Join Tang [0] (~chatzilla@AMontsouris-108-1-19-173.w80-15.abo.wanadoo.fr)
20:17:22Tanghi sorry
20:17:30Tangi've forgotten something
20:17:50Tangtried to send my correction to the comparison feature chart
20:17:53Tangfor iHP
20:17:55Tangyesterday
20:18:02Tangbut got a failure delivery
20:18:09Tangat: rockbox-owner@ cool.haxx.se
20:18:22Tangno one know where i can mail it?
20:19:11 Quit Sucka ("( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 3.81 :: www.XLhost.de )")
20:20:18amiconnHmm. Imho this should be moved to the wiki, then everyone who spots a mistake could edit it himself.
20:20:33rasherI'll get right to it
20:20:45rashershouldn't take too long
20:20:56amiconnIs there a way to set a cell background colour in the wiki?
20:21:12rasherI'd be surprised if there isn't
20:22:46Tangokay thanks amiconn i would have correcd in wiki indeed
20:22:53Tangbut not possible for now
20:22:56rasherif nothing else, we could just put it as html
20:23:16Tanganyway i've the correction as a RTF file
20:23:17amiconnThat would mean to do the whole table in html
20:23:32Tangif someone give me an email i send it
20:23:32rasheramiconn: it's html already :)
20:23:51jyppreglow: your macros are somewhere I'd give it a look
20:23:55jypid
20:23:56jypif
20:24:14 Join webguest17 [0] (~d53d8302@labb.contactor.se)
20:24:24webguest17Hi Folks
20:24:51webguest17i send a mail on friday that i want to join the irever h100devel.
20:25:04webguest17any 1 here concerned?
20:25:28rasheramiconn: looks like it's possible
20:26:11rasheror not
20:28:23Lynx_webguest17: sure, all here are concerned :)
20:28:41Tang(not alll)
20:28:50Lynx_Tang: sorry ;)
20:28:57webguest17lynx: fine, i wanted to start with a i2c driver
20:29:17Tang;)
20:29:43Lynx_Lynx_: i'm not a developer though, and do not know what an i2c driver might be ;)
20:29:53webguest17looking at the rockbox sources i have some quiestions
20:30:07webguest17related ti interrupt vs threads
20:30:14jypYou can have a look at firmware/drivers/i2c.c
20:30:27Lynx_webguest17: just ask, someone qualified will likely answer...
20:30:35webguest17yes i did, that seem to be a polling solution
20:30:36jypBut I think i2c is pretty much done already, from the wiki page
20:31:31hubblewebguest17: i've started implemented i2c on h100
20:31:39webguest17your sure, i downloaded the daily snapshot from a few days ago, ther was only a init stub in the srcs
20:31:59hubblewebguest17: but my code is not in cvs
20:32:02preglowjyp: phone
20:32:04webguest17hubble: ah ok, is it in the cvs already?
20:32:26jyppreglow: ?
20:32:41webguest17hubble: so whats the status?
20:33:56webguest17hubble: i'm more concerned implementing the i2S to get sound playback done
20:34:11webguest17hubble: but i need i2c to setup the soundchip
20:34:13hubblewebguest17: writing to i2c interface are done.. uda1380 driver is starting
20:35:01hubblewebguest17: uda1380 initialization is working and outputing data on i2s interface produces sound =)
20:35:24webguest17hubble: so you need any help on this?
20:35:33hubblewebguest17: however i2s is not using interrupts or DMA yet
20:35:55jyphubble: I'm interested in that ;)
20:36:28hubblejyp: does the gmini use uda1380 ?
20:36:43jypno; another chip
20:37:02jyphttp://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/tlv320aic23b.html
20:37:17jypBut i2c & i2s too
20:37:51jypSo our pieces of code shall merge ;)
20:38:59hubblejyp: how do you mean? my i2c/i2s code is dependant on the mcf5249 cpu
20:40:29jyphubble: I don't know what is what; maybe I misunderstood
20:40:59 Nick StrathAFK is now known as Strath (~mike@dgvlwinas01pool0-a212.wi.tds.net)
20:41:11webguest17jyp: the mcf5249 has build in i2c and i2s
20:41:26 Join XShocK [0] (~XShocK@pcp09492659pcs.nrockv01.md.comcast.net)
20:42:11jypSo, mcf5249 is the main microcontroller, and uda1380 is the audio chip, right ?
20:42:21webguest17jyp: yep
20:42:47hubblejyp: but there's lowlevel i2c code in rockbox which drives SCL and SDA wires..
20:43:09hubblejyp: see drivers/i2c.c
20:43:20jyphubble: indeed, and gmini is supported at this level already ...
20:43:30hubblejyp: oki
20:43:34jypI committed the code a week ago or so ;)
20:44:07jypI'm talking about merging the audio chip drivers (i2c commands should be similar)
20:45:29webguest17hubble: are you going to ci ur src to cvs soon? i'm interessted int it
20:45:30HClgah.
20:45:36HClwhy isn't rockboy compiling suddenly
20:46:07hubblewebguest17: probably not tonight, have to clean the code and I dont have write access either
20:46:25jyphubble: and I think we should use a similar scheme for i2s transfer too
20:46:40jypHow does the mcf5249 handles i2s ?
20:47:02TangSeems the mail is Ok now
20:47:03jypThe gmini has a 64 bytes buffer;
20:47:16Tangmaybe the failure was caused by the attached file
20:47:24TangCheers, i ca n go now
20:47:37jypgetting an interrupt each cycle
20:47:46amiconnNo DMA?
20:47:59hubblejyp: you set a few bit's in a control reg and write bytes to another reg, then read out status in a status reg, etc =)
20:48:08jyplol
20:48:24hubblesorry
20:48:25jypamiconn: No DMA!
20:48:43amiconnBadness
20:48:53jypTroughput is rather low after all
20:49:06webguest17jyp: i remember the mfc 5249 having a buffer and a inetrrupt too
20:49:16hubblejyp: thought you wrote i2c.. i2s .. it only has a 6 sample buffer so you need a tight interrupt to feed that
20:49:24 Quit elinenbe_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
20:49:47jypIsn't a dedicated interrupt raised (as in the gmini ?)
20:49:48amiconnhubble: No DMA on coldfire too?
20:50:14hubbleyes, there's DMA also.. I havn't read about that yet
20:50:44jypIf I may suggest to use the interrupt method ...
20:50:52jypfor the sake of code re-use
20:50:52HClshit..
20:50:59HClall of a sudden rockboy doesn't work anymore :(
20:51:05Tangbye!
20:51:09 Quit Tang ("Chatzilla 0.9.66 [Mozilla rv:1.7.5/20041108]")
20:52:14amiconnjyp: If hubble wants to reuse code, he should go for DMA. Rockbox on archos/sh also uses DMA for feeding the decorder
20:52:25amiconn*decoder
20:52:42jypfine then
20:53:34hubblei guess that it'll be a combo.. a ticking interrupt that starts dma transfers?
20:54:02linuxstbhubble: What format is the PCM data in that you send to the audio hardware?
20:54:09amiconnNope. It uses the end-of-dma interrupt to start a new dma block
20:54:25hubbleamiconn: aha
20:55:09***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:55:59Bagderjyp: when you think you have time, it would be cool to see some Gmini data added to http://www.rockbox.org/docs/devicechart.html
20:56:09hubblelinuxstb: you mean little or big endian?
20:56:37linuxstbHubble: yes, that sort of thing - is it just standard big-endian interleaved (left/right channel) 16-bit samples?
20:57:20jypBagder: ok
20:57:27preglowjyp: this looks alot more extensive than emac in coldfire
20:57:42preglowwhat type of variables will be used to hold the 24 bit data for the mac?
20:58:11webguest17linuxstb: 20 bit msb first as it is i2s
20:58:13preglowno custom 24 bit sized shit i hope?
20:58:41jyppreglow: 32 bit words I guess... Not sure what you mean
20:59:00preglowthat's what i meant, yes
20:59:10hubblelinuxstb: currently two 16 big-endian packed in 32 bits.. but it can be configured
20:59:17preglowi really think this is going to be quite hard
20:59:35jyppreglow: What I fear too
20:59:37preglowthe emac unit in the coldfire is 48 bit wide, but you can only get the top/bottom 32 bits easily
20:59:50preglowif you need more, you'll be in shifting hell
21:00
21:00:54preglowjyp: does gcc support the calmmac directly?
21:00:59jypno
21:01:37hubblepreglow: are you optimizing MDCT with emac?
21:01:43preglowit's _way_ more complex than coldfire shit, btw
21:01:56preglowhubble: i might once i understand how the emac unit works, yes
21:02:21hubblepreglow: cool =)
21:02:42preglowthe imdct is a pretty crucial part in most lossy codecs, so would be good
21:02:48jyppreglow: What part do you find complicated?
21:03:48webguest17so i see there seems no need to work on the sound part; anything i can do?
21:04:05preglowjyp: not complicated per se, i just don't understand exactly what it does. i'm using the mac instruction to multiply to fractional numbers, but the answer i get is weird
21:04:07jypI know this sounds like an eliza reply, but I don't know how I could help you ;)
21:04:19preglowit's almost correct, but it's got msb bits set that shouldn't be
21:04:20preglowand wrong lsb
21:05:01jypWhat I understood of fractional mode is that it's just a shift right after multiply
21:05:59preglowwhat fractional mode in the coldfire does, is multiply two 32 bit ints together, then toss away the bottom 20 bits, then add that to an accumulator, with some sign extension to an extra 8 bits of msb precision
21:06:41jypAbout the same stuff in the calmmac
21:06:45preglowi'll get it, it's probably just me being stupid again, problem is i should be working on my masters right now as well, heh
21:06:47 Quit muesli- (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
21:07:21jypPage 293 of the datasheet "Multiplier"...
21:07:42jypMaybe having a different explanation will bring you light
21:08:07preglowjyp: you've got a problem with libmad right there, libmad assumes you've got 32 bit integers
21:08:08jypthough I've never found this datasheet very clear ... Sort of a korean translation smell ;)
21:08:16preglowhehe
21:08:56jypWhat can I say ?
21:09:02jypbaaaad ;)
21:09:05preglowbut no, the weirdness is probably motorola weirdness
21:09:07preglowyes, indeed
21:09:28preglowi'm not particularily looking forward to porting it to use the emac, but it'll probably be easier
21:09:33preglowbut yes, i've got to have a shower
21:09:57jypThe other option... I reverse the Archos decoder ;)
21:10:28preglowahhh, so you _are_ mad
21:10:50jypI don't seem to realize what we've been through already ;)
21:10:59preglowbut yes, brb
21:12:19jyp'emad'... could be the perfect nickname for the gmini dsp btw ;]
21:12:28webguest17any 1 started a gdb stub for the h100?
21:12:36Bagderwebguest17: I don't think so
21:12:58webguest17badger: ok im going to look into it
21:13:25Bagdera gdb stub will be really useful
21:13:51webguest17badger: what about the bdm if?
21:14:04webguest17badger: it should work? right?
21:14:22Bagderthe bdm works
21:14:31Bagderbut it is a much bigger thing to get for a single dev
21:14:49webguest17badger: but more powerfull too
21:14:53Bagdersure
21:15:08Bagderbut I think there's a reason we don't see people get BDMs
21:15:20BagderLinus is the only one
21:15:24webguest17mhh my problem is buying such a thing
21:15:47webguest17not the mony, but the supplier
21:16:11Bagderyes, this one was bought from some US supplier I believe
21:16:44webguest17i've no visa, i depend on a german supplier
21:17:33Bagderbesides, you can use a serial cable with your unit not ripped to pieces, which is harder with the BDM I believe
21:17:51webguest17i already ripped up my unbit ;-)
21:18:23webguest17well ther is a 20 pin smd connector on the board
21:18:41webguest17i mean the pads for a connector
21:21:04preglowfeel free to code a gdb stub :P
21:21:06preglowi would love that
21:21:11preglowbrb
21:21:35webguest17so ok, i llook into that.
21:23:40webguest17mhh looking into zhe bootloader sources i only see sh stuff
21:23:53webguest17is there a different bootloader for h100?
21:24:09amiconnLook in /bootloader
21:24:20webguest17ah ok
21:24:36amiconn /flash/bootloader is archos/sh
21:24:37 Quit webguest17 ("CGI:IRC")
21:26:06 Quit Cassandra_ (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
21:26:38 Nick Lynx_ is now known as Lynx_awy (HydraIRC@134.95.189.59)
21:28:47 Join webguest17 [0] (~d53d8302@labb.contactor.se)
21:29:01webguest17whops, got disconnected
21:29:46webguest17cya later
21:29:49 Quit webguest17 (Client Quit)
21:30:08 Join muesli- [0] (muesli_tv@1Cust59.tnt3.hnr2.deu.da.uu.net)
21:34:58*amiconn slaps his forehead
21:35:22amiconnBraindead MMC.
21:37:33 Join muesli_ [0] (muesli_tv@1Cust74.tnt3.hnr2.deu.da.uu.net)
21:40:58preglowmy usb connector is getting dangerously loose after all this plugging and unplugging
21:41:19amiconnDid you try another cable?
21:41:28preglownah
21:41:30preglowonly got this
21:41:45preglowit's not in any immediate danger
21:41:47amiconnI once did similar with my archos recorder, when developing the grayscale lib
21:42:16amiconnIt also became rather loose, but it turned out that the cable suffers more than the socket
21:42:38amiconnI suspect this is even worse with mini-B
21:43:26preglowyes, i too suspect it's the cable
21:43:31 Quit muesli- (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
21:43:35 Quit Hohoman ("( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 3.81 :: www.XLhost.de )")
21:45:17preglowwell, small wonder anyway, the plugging action is pretty high when i code
21:45:23preglowa simulator would be nice
21:45:57amiconnThe simulator is only useful for high level stuff
21:46:51preglowwell, ok, i've got the mac instruction figured
21:46:54preglownow for trying to use it
21:46:58 Join ashridah [0] (ashridah@220-253-120-130.VIC.netspace.net.au)
21:47:05preglowamiconn: i meant more of a cpu level simulator
21:47:10preglowan emulator, if you will
21:47:28preglowbdm interface would be cool as well
21:47:31amiconnAh, yes. Iirc jyp has such a beast available for gmini work.
21:48:08*preglow Kraftwerk - The Robots
21:48:12preglowgod, i love vocoders
21:48:15jypright; but CalmMAC ain't supported well yet
21:48:27jyppreglow: try out latest daft punk
21:48:35jyp50 minutes of vocoder ;)
21:48:38preglowhahah
21:48:42preglowjoy and pleasure!
21:49:23DeadManhey how about a built in vocoder for H1x0 ;)
21:50:15preglowexcellent idea, and probably not impossible
21:50:34preglowif i finally got the emac shit to work, i'll start on making filters straight away!
21:50:55DeadManare you joking or for real?
21:50:58preglowi did make a vocoder once, actually, but it sounded like crap
21:51:00preglowfor real
21:51:02DeadManLOL
21:51:25DeadManthat would be cool. btw is there an fx system in RockBox I never read all the features
21:51:28preglowone of my plans is to create lots of sweet dsp effects for it, heh
21:51:43DeadManyeah dsp's would be lovely indeed
21:51:51hubblehehe
21:52:14preglowglobal reverb and flanger makes music better
21:52:15preglowhahah
21:52:27preglowthink i'll go for an eq first
21:52:46DeadManshame fraunhoffer's new headphone surround technique is not open :P
21:53:13DeadManI'm looking for a headphone surround system that actually works
21:53:44DeadManpreglow parametric eq ;)
21:53:51preglowDeadMan: i'll make that for sure
21:53:58DeadMansweet
21:54:02amiconnCrap. Some MMC don't like reading the very last sectors with the read_multiple command in SPI mode, because we cannot send the stop_transmission early enough. So the card tries to advance to a nonexistent sector...
21:54:05preglowwhat kind of surround do you mean, btw?
21:54:09DeadManbit of a muso here so I understand some of it
21:54:11preglowreal surround would require hrtfs
21:54:16 Join Tim [0] (~tjlamb@ool-18be3ce7.dyn.optonline.net)
21:54:36Timany geniuses out there who can help me out?
21:54:42DeadMan?
21:54:45HCldepends on what you need
21:54:47DeadManask and you may recieve
21:55:09Timokay....I have an archos 6000 with a 30 gig hd and Rockbox on it.
21:56:24TimEverything was working GREAT up until last week when I hooked up the usb to transfer files. My computer knows the drive is there (it appears in Device manager and in Safely Remove...), BUT the drive letter I assigned (H) does not appear in Explorer or in My Computer....
21:58:09Timnothing?
21:58:27preglowTim: you sure you haven't told windows not to display it?
21:58:34preglowTim: you select that in the same place you assign the drive letter
21:58:49preglowTim: that'd be my first guess
21:59:47DeadManyeah see if disk manager shows it
22:00
22:00:28Timokay where do I see if I selected that?
22:00:31DeadManit's under computer management in control panel, admin tools
22:01:15Timdisk manager shows it....
22:01:26DeadManletter it's assigned?
22:01:48 Quit muesli_ (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
22:02:09Timh
22:02:13DeadManit should also show as 'healthy' and no odd messages about it being a foreign drive
22:02:34Timoh, crap! there it is! But I got a messenger error message when it popped up?
22:02:51DeadManwhich was?
22:03:40Timyou know, windows meesenger has experienced....do you want to send an error report blah, blah, blah....
22:03:49DeadManoh
22:03:56DeadManI don't use messenger
22:04:01DeadManI switch it off
22:04:21DeadManbut anyhow is the drive accessible now in explorer?
22:05:12Timyep, you guys ROCK! I thought I'd have to re-install windows or some such....you know, Archos couldn't figure out in 10 minutes what you did in 3
22:05:21DeadManlol
22:05:30DeadManjust windows getting it's knickers in a twist
22:05:59Timit seems to LOVE doing that....especially when my other two hd's are ntfs and this is fat32
22:06:03DeadManI didn't do anything btw just trying to diagnose error
22:06:37Timyou got me to where the error WAS...don't underestimate THAT level of help!
22:06:40Timbbl
22:06:46DeadManyou wanna try doing a partition in XP. Then find out you can't get it to make a master active partition coz it's CRAP!
22:07:12DeadManI had to boot to a win98 floppy and fdisk :P
22:07:51DeadManhow crap is that that it can't delete a partition and create an active partition?
22:07:57crash__jyp: i see you have progress on your gmini port
22:08:03jypMy advice is to DITCH winxp and use linux ;)
22:08:09DeadManheh
22:08:19jypcrash__: indeed
22:08:31DeadManjyp gmni has I2S and I2C like iRiver ne?
22:09:08DeadManor somesuch
22:09:12jypThe amount of similarity will be determined when I see hubble's code, but yes
22:09:20DeadManthat could be handy
22:09:55jypStarth is working on the hardware debug interface ...
22:10:04jyphttp://www.donat.org/archos/temp/port%20analysis/jtag-cable.jpg
22:10:11jyp... or http://www.donat.org.nyud.net:8090/archos/temp/port%20analysis/jtag-cable.jpg
22:10:15DeadManhe's wiggling his wiggler is he?
22:10:22jypif you have problems with the other url
22:10:54DeadManis that the wiggler?
22:11:23crash__jyp: i also saw you have started on the analog digital audio thing? will it be used for iriver too ?
22:11:40jypDeadMan: I don't know exactly
22:11:48DeadManhey I know jiggy
22:12:15DeadManbut you mentioned debug so I assumed it was a bdm wiggler (whatever that is lol)
22:12:20jypcrash__: no, it's rather the low level stuff
22:12:35 Join [IDC]Dragon [0] (~Joerg@pD9FF867F.dip.t-dialin.net)
22:12:43DeadManignore me :)
22:13:00jypDeadMan: it's more or less that
22:13:04amiconnhi Jörg
22:13:11[IDC]Dragonhi there
22:13:20amiconnDid you read the log, or what?
22:13:20[IDC]Dragonlong time no IRC
22:13:31DeadManself built rather than expensive purchase I am guessing
22:13:34[IDC]Dragona bit, why?
22:13:48[IDC]Dragonthe MMC?
22:13:49amiconnI fixed the MMC sector count calculation.
22:14:08amiconnIt turned out that my card wasn't formatted wrong after all
22:14:19[IDC]Dragona day or two ago, right?
22:14:33amiconnUnfortunately I already ditched the image, so I had to re-download it from haxx.
22:14:45[IDC]Dragon:-/
22:14:54amiconnNow I put it back to my card - the error is still there?
22:15:07[IDC]Dragonbut I guess this is not the MV problem?
22:15:17preglowdoes rockbox fprintf buffer output?
22:15:26amiconnI checked - rockbox does *not* try to read past end of card.
22:15:40[IDC]Dragonthe panic, yes
22:16:05DeadManI wonder if one of those Toshiba 60GB drives will work in an H1x0
22:16:11amiconnInstead, some cards (including mine, but *not* the internal (!) ) don't like it when we read the very last sector with the read_multiple command
22:16:33amiconn...because we can't send the stop_transmission early enough.
22:16:46HClDeadMan: on misticriver someone hooked up a normal 80gb hdd onto an iriver, it worked fine.
22:16:46amiconnSo the card tries to advance to a nonexistent sector...
22:16:50HClDeadMan: so yes, it will.
22:16:52DeadManI know some guy hooked up an 80GB 3.5" drive to one but not sure what the results were for over 9999 files if it recognised them or not
22:16:54[IDC]Dragonso, don't do such ;-)
22:17:10 Quit Ka ("* poof *")
22:17:11HClrockboy will crush that 9999 files limit anyways
22:17:12HCler
22:17:14HClrockbox
22:17:15HClmy bad
22:17:15HClo.o
22:17:24DeadMancan't source those drives anyhow coz Apple damned well have them all bought up :P
22:17:25amiconnIt seems we need to always read the very last sector with read_single_block
22:17:32amiconn...to make sure.
22:17:35[IDC]Dragonamiconn: is it a problem to do a special case?
22:17:40HClDeadMan: toshiba just made a new 1.8" 80gb
22:17:50DeadManwould that fit?
22:18:16[IDC]Dragonbtw, nice diagnosis
22:18:19DeadManI'd give my left pinky for one of those :)
22:18:39DeadManOK I lie but it would be nice none the same :)
22:18:41HCli think it would
22:18:46HClit was made with a new technoligy
22:18:53HClactually making it smaller than the 40gb, iirc
22:19:06DeadMan40GB is dual platter
22:19:14HClmhm
22:19:22DeadManso they must have double the platters
22:19:25HClohno
22:19:27HCli died in mario
22:19:29HCl :x
22:19:35DeadManHCI :O
22:19:38amiconn[IDC]Dragon: I ended up putting hard coded ata_read_sectors in the main startup, and then see if it panics or not (I have special debug panic()s)
22:19:51HCland nah, they made a new technoligy to increase the density of the disks..
22:20:07ashridahHCl: it's actually playable long enough to die now? :)
22:20:08DeadManah that is cool then
22:20:13DeadManit should fit
22:20:20HClashridah: sortof :P
22:20:25HClashridah: i'm getting about 1fps
22:20:28DeadManbut at present you cannot even buy the 60gb let alone 80gb drives
22:20:36DeadMannot to the public
22:20:48DeadManonly to oem's
22:21:46amiconn[IDC]Dragon: I'll try to make the special case handling look not too dumb.
22:22:10amiconn[IDC]Dragon: Btw, you could try whether your card shows the same behaviour
22:22:15[IDC]Dragonwe check against the limit for the panic already
22:22:28preglowhah
22:22:29preglowa filter
22:22:54[IDC]Dragonso you can do if ==max: special case, if >max panic
22:23:33amiconn[IDC]Dragon: Yes. We also have an if/else deciding about singe/multiple read. I don't want to add another block doing single read, I already have an idea
22:23:52[IDC]DragonI'd need a file on my card which uses the last cluster
22:24:00amiconnNo, you don't
22:24:04HClit still crashes when you press two buttons at the same time
22:24:21[IDC]Dragon?
22:24:22amiconnFirst, check in the debug menu how many sectors your card has.
22:24:59preglowit's filtering!!
22:25:05Timhey, here's another rockbox q.....it says I have much more free space on my hard drive than I know I do....not a big thing, but weird, no?
22:25:07preglownow to understand the intricacies
22:25:17[IDC]Dragonneed to get a daily build or update+compile
22:25:17amiconn[IDC]Dragon: Then add the following in main.c (I did it from line 202 on, after usb_start_monitoring):
22:25:41amiconn {
22:25:42amiconn unsigned char dbuff[1024];
22:25:42amiconn ata_read_sectors(1, <sector_count-2>, 2, &dbuff);
22:25:42DBUGEnqueued KICK amiconn
22:25:42amiconn }
22:26:13amiconnYou'll need another panicf() call in ata_mmc.c:
22:26:59amiconnAt the end of ata_read_sectors, but before the flush, put:
22:27:00amiconn if (ret)
22:27:00amiconn panicf("read_sectors(%d, %d) (%d) %d", start, incount, i, ret);
22:27:28amiconnThen compile an ajbrec.ajz and rolo into it with the card inserted
22:27:40HClhrm.
22:28:57 Join DMJC-L [0] (~DMJC-L@220-245-162-47-sa-nt.tpgi.com.au)
22:29:25amiconn[IDC]Dragon: If you change the '<sector_count-2>, 2' to '<sector_count-1>, 1' it should not panic, because then it uses single read
22:29:51CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
22:29:51*[IDC]Dragon compiles on the notebook first time
22:30:07*amiconn always compiles on the notebook :)
22:30:19[IDC]Dragoni know
22:30:43[IDC]Dragonbinutils not ported to amiga?
22:31:01amiconnLatest amiga gcc is 2.95...
22:31:17amiconn(if I didn't miss something)
22:32:48*[IDC]Dragon missed to checkout the fonts
22:33:02XShocKdoes anyone know what new was introduced in gcc 3.5 ?
22:33:13XShocKi couldn't find much info about it
22:33:40amiconngcc 3.5? I only know about 3.3.5
22:33:59Bagderisn't the work going on for 4.0 after 3.4?
22:34:17amiconnBagder: I think so
22:34:28Bagder3.4.3 is the latest release anyway
22:34:32 Join Ka [0] (~tkirk@pcp0010733332pcs.howard01.md.comcast.net)
22:35:05rasherShouldn't things like tricklecharge etc. be ifdeffed out on iRiver?
22:35:07Bagderhttp://gcc.gnu.org/develop.html
22:35:16Bagdermentions no 3.5, only 4.0
22:35:30amiconnrasher: They aren't?
22:35:52amiconnBagder: 3.3.5 came out after 3.4
22:36:06Timanyone know of a solid, FREE sound levelling, id3 group tage renaming programs?
22:36:09Bagderyes, 3.4.X and 3.3.X are two branches
22:36:10amiconnLooks like it is a bugfix release for the 3.3 series
22:36:44Bagderthe URL above shows it clearly
22:37:12XShocKhmmm
22:37:12rasheramiconn: hrm trickle charge is, I guess, but at least I see "Car adapter Mode" in the menu
22:37:34amiconnThe car adapter mode has nothing to do with charging
22:38:04rasheroh ah
22:38:11rasherI'll just shut my mouth then. :X
22:38:13amiconnInstead, it uses a peculiarity (call it a shortcoming or a feature) of the archos hardware
22:38:23XShocKhehe.. you are right 4.0
22:38:26XShocKnot 3.5
22:38:53amiconnThe archos hardware can't power off as long as the charger is connected, that also means it switches on when power is applied
22:39:38amiconnSo if you have a cigarette lighter socket in your car which is switched with the ignition, car adapter mode starts/stops playback accordingly
22:39:59rasherinteresting
22:40:10BagderXShocK: apparently it _was_ called 3.5 but was renamed to 4.0
22:40:26Bagderhttp://gnu.mirrormonster.com/software/gcc/gcc-4.0/changes.html
22:40:46 Join Patr3ck [0] (~patr3ck@pD95F79DC.dip.t-dialin.net)
22:40:47amiconnrasher: I don't know whether this is possible on iRiver. It would require that the iRiver hardware switches on when external DC power is applied
22:40:49[IDC]Dragonthe code is broken for Ondio backlight
22:41:19rasheramiconn: it most certainly doesn't
22:41:29 Part Tim
22:41:53amiconn[IDC]Dragon: What happens? No backlight at all?
22:42:27[IDC]Dragonno compile
22:42:38[IDC]Dragonhang on, this is strange
22:44:00[IDC]Dragonah, copy paste typo
22:44:16amiconnYours, or in cvs?
22:44:21[IDC]Dragonmine
22:47:17[IDC]Dragonoh, my display is mirror-faced
22:47:30amiconnHuh?
22:47:50[IDC]Dragondidn't know the controller can do so
22:48:02rashersounds like great fun
22:48:27rashersomeone set up a projecting system
22:49:19amiconn[IDC]Dragon: ??? What did you do? The controller can do so, as it can reverse the horizontal & vertical scan directions separately. However, building from current cvs works for me...
22:49:42[IDC]Dragonperhaps my settings are very confused
22:49:57*amiconn tries a full rebuild
22:50:06[IDC]Dragonthe backlight introduces a few settings bits
22:50:30[IDC]Dragonofsetting them, making them very incompatible
22:50:52amiconnYeah, but the settings shouldn't cause the controller to reverse the directions separately...
22:51:04[IDC]Dragonyes, stange
22:51:30[IDC]Dragonthe display was flipped, shifted, and mirrored
22:52:02 Part LinusN
22:52:27[IDC]Dragon\o/
22:53:28[IDC]Dragonoops, he left, I confused with entering
22:53:35rasherheh
22:53:36amiconn;)
22:53:51[IDC]Dragonhooray, Linus is gone
22:53:52DMJC-Ldid linus upload the 140mhz suff?
22:53:55DMJC-Lstuff
22:54:04amiconnlol
22:55:03amiconn(sorry, 'Suff' meaning 'being drunk' in german)
22:55:10***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:56:14amiconn[IDC]Dragon: My display behaves just fine.
22:58:28 Quit ashridah ("phone")
22:59:03Bagderaha, Linus is awake ;-)
23:00
23:01:04[IDC]Dragonnow upside down+shifted
23:02:17amiconnDoes it work correctly with archos?
23:02:54 Quit uncledrax ()
23:03:27[IDC]DragonI bet so
23:03:36[IDC]Dragonnow copying a daily build
23:03:41amiconnMaybe there's a connection pb...
23:03:57amiconn(did you uart-boot recently?)
23:04:09[IDC]Dragonno :-)
23:04:53DeadManAny changes to H1x0 today?
23:05:30rashernothing public, no big changes
23:05:42[IDC]Dragonthe daily is OK (normal flip, because of settings shift)
23:06:22amiconnBagder: Many links on the datasheet wiki page (leading to datasheets stored in the wiki) don't work anymore...
23:06:44amiconn[IDC]Dragon: Which gcc?
23:07:05Bagderannoying
23:07:06[IDC]Dragon3.3.5
23:07:17amiconnHmm. That's what I use too
23:07:38amiconnDo you have internal changes?
23:08:04[IDC]Dragoninternal? only the backlight
23:09:43[IDC]Dragonbut I got the sector count now
23:16:35[IDC]Dragonamiconn: it doesn't panic
23:16:58amiconnInteresting... The internal flash also doesn't panic
23:17:11amiconnWhat brand/type is your card?
23:17:29[IDC]Dragonextrememory
23:17:43[IDC]DragonI can try another one
23:17:59amiconnHmm. Mine is a Transcend.
23:19:01amiconnBagder: What happened to the datasheets?
23:19:32XShocKUDA1380 supports 24-bit, so there is no need to translate libMad into 16-bit back, is it right?
23:22:04 Quit jyp ("poof!")
23:22:15[IDC]DragonXShocK: but the CPU does "only" 20 bits
23:22:34[IDC]Dragon(said Linus)
23:22:37amiconn[IDC]Dragon: I don't think it's necessary to optimize a special case of the special case, right?
23:22:45 Join jyp [0] (~jp@10.135-200-80.adsl.skynet.be)
23:23:44[IDC]Dragonmeaning, some cards working?
23:24:34amiconnNo, meaning reading *exactly* the 2 last sectors with 2 single reads instead of a 1-long multi read plus a single read
23:25:04amiconn(The 1-long multi read takes slightly longer than a single read)
23:25:19[IDC]Dragonforget it, yes
23:28:20[IDC]Dragonthe other card also behaves well
23:29:12amiconnBtw, it's better that this happens with one of my cards (in fact my only card), rather than a user's
23:29:28 Join Hohoman [0] (~inte@hohoman.olf.sgsnet.se)
23:29:29amiconnIt might have turned out very hard to investigate then...
23:29:42[IDC]Dragonyes, like Trevors problem
23:29:57amiconnI'd really like to get hold of a 0308 unit...
23:30:23amiconnI have no idea why it fails by looking at the code only.
23:30:54[IDC]DragonTrevor seemed happy to send one
23:34:24 Quit Aison ("( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 3.72 :: www.XLhost.de )")
23:35:50DeadManWhat? Did I read right? The iRiver could have done 24 bit but the CPU is preventing it from doing so?
23:36:26coobany rockboy devs in here?
23:36:36HClyes?
23:36:41preglowwell, duh, you're in #rockbox
23:36:46[IDC]DragonDeadMan, the I2S interface of the CPU is 20 bit max
23:36:49DeadManHCI broke something :)
23:36:57HCli got it working again with a backup
23:37:01HClhcL
23:37:03DeadMan[IDC]Dragon that sucks neh?
23:37:08coobHCl: was that yes to me...?
23:37:12HClcoob: yup.
23:37:26coobgot your source anywhere?
23:37:29[IDC]Dragonno, plenty ofdynamics still
23:37:29HClyea
23:37:33HClhold on
23:38:13HClftp://titania.student.utwente.nl/
23:39:26 Quit jyp ("poof!")
23:39:32coobcool thanks
23:39:43HClnp
23:46:20coobrockbox-devel.zip i take it...
23:48:46HClyea
23:48:58HClits just a zip of my sourcetree, not really pretty or anything
23:49:18DBUGEnqueued KICK DeadMan
23:49:18*DeadMan 14»»12 12np 14·7 Daft Punk - Discovery - 14·7 10:29/60:58 [15¦¦5¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦7] 14·7 151046 kbps 14««
23:50:13rasheroh dear
23:50:31DeadManHey I like it ;)
23:50:50DeadManand the anime music video is cool
23:50:55preglowhahaa
23:51:01preglowi absolutely _hate_ anime music videos
23:51:12preglowbut that one's original, so it's almost excusable
23:51:24DeadManyeah it was made for the music and it runs as a movie
23:51:32HClheh.
23:51:40HClits okay
23:51:44CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
23:51:44*HCl likes amvs :P
23:51:46DeadManold stylee anime
23:52:05DeadManreminds me of Battle of the Planets :)
23:52:21amiconn[IDC]Dragon: Did you find out what happened to your display?
23:52:41[IDC]Dragonno
23:52:52[IDC]Dragoni didn't really try
23:53:15amiconnMaybe a 'cvs diff -u' gives you a clue?
23:55:44 Join Digital007 [0] (~acc9ead3@labb.contactor.se)
23:55:50Digital007Hi
23:56:19HClhello
23:56:41Digital007When iRiver rockbox is finally finished, will the bootloader be available "pre-compiled"?
23:56:50Bagdernot from us
23:57:05Bagderit contains iRiver code
23:57:12DeadManwill you provide an exe to compile it? :)
23:57:18preglowbut practically, it will probably be available as an .ips patch
23:57:28Digital007so where would i get the bootloader from?
23:57:34 Join amiconn_ [0] (~jens@pD9E7FCF2.dip.t-dialin.net)
23:57:41DMJCkazaa
23:57:53DMJCor maybe off some home boxes running apache
23:57:58rasherNo
23:57:59DeadManheh
23:58:04Bagderit could be a executable that applies a patch against an iriver hex file
23:58:10DeadManyeah
23:58:13 Quit amiconn (Nick collision from services.)
23:58:14 Nick amiconn_ is now known as amiconn (~jens@pD9E7FCF2.dip.t-dialin.net)
23:58:15rasherIt should be
23:58:19amiconnBagder: No downloads of wiki attachments work :(
23:58:26 Join LinusN [0] (~linus@labb.contactor.se)
23:58:42DeadManhow are most people currently loading the fw?
23:58:43Digital007as im sure there are people who want to try iRiver rickbox but don't wanna mess around trying to assemble the bootloader
23:58:46amiconnBagder: Even not those I added today!
23:58:56Bagder:-/

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