| 00:05:14 | rasher | I guess that's, like, a no. |
| 00:05:37 | Bagder | hehe |
| 00:08:32 | rasher | Oh well, I read the logs.. wasn't exactly hoping for much :) |
| 00:11:17 | rasher | Shame linuxstb is busy (or whatever he's doing), he got a lot of work done |
| 00:13:55 | | Join amiconn [0] (~jens@pD9E7F530.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 00:14:25 | amiconn | hi again |
| 00:14:38 | rasher | evening |
| 00:15:42 | amiconn | Bagder: Who is in charge of the fat driver (or knows it best)? I found a bug (or rather, my sister pointed me to the problem) |
| 00:16:06 | Bagder | zagor, Linus and Jörg have all done various things in there |
| 00:16:11 | rasher | your sister appears to be an endless source of bugs |
| 00:16:27 | rasher | (or am I mis-remembering?) |
| 00:16:40 | t0mas | lol |
| 00:16:45 | amiconn | She actually uses the thing much |
| 00:17:26 | amiconn | Maybe the problem only manifests with fat16, because the fat16 root dir has a fixed size, but the cause might be universal |
| 00:18:03 | amiconn | The thing is that if a file or dir is deleted, the corresponding dir entry is not completely erased but rather only marked as deleted |
| 00:18:35 | amiconn | If you copy and delete a lot of files, the dir gets eventually filled with deleted entries. |
| 00:18:46 | rasher | ah.. fun |
| 00:18:59 | amiconn | If this happens, rockbox is unable to save a file in the root, because the fat16 root dir is not extendable |
| 00:19:01 | rasher | it should start overwriting I guess? |
| 00:19:02 | t0mas | microsoft designed the fat format right? |
| 00:19:15 | Bagder | yes |
| 00:19:32 | rasher | they did indeed, but I'd think they had this one right afterall |
| 00:19:36 | amiconn | It should start to overwrite deleted entries |
| 00:20:03 | amiconn | I made an image of the whole flash content for analysis, and also transferred it to my Ondio |
| 00:21:10 | amiconn | preglow: Btw, that was the cause for the playlist problems I mentioned. |
| 00:22:19 | rasher | haha, took me like an entire period to notice that I was watching _women's_ hockey |
| 00:26:14 | preglow | someone actually uses fat16? |
| 00:26:44 | amiconn | It's the default file system for flash cards, and rockbox must support it |
| 00:27:04 | amiconn | ...because the internal flash of the Ondio must be formatted with fat16 |
| 00:27:43 | amiconn | The archos firmware for Ondio can only boot from a fat16 medium |
| 00:28:03 | preglow | are they going for dos compatibility or what? |
| 00:28:22 | amiconn | As I said, fat16 is the standard for flash media |
| 00:28:27 | rasher | there's some reason, but I forget.. |
| 00:28:34 | rasher | as always. |
| 00:28:44 | amiconn | fat32 would be overkill for small sizes |
| 00:28:50 | preglow | there are patent issues with fat32, for one |
| 00:29:42 | rasher | probably that |
| 00:29:49 | preglow | the braindead long file name scheme is patented |
| 00:30:18 | rasher | http://www.dane-elec.fr/scripts/home/publigen/content/templates/TPL_ADV_FAQ_01.asp?P=279&L=EN&SYNC=YES#5 haha |
| 00:30:20 | | Join Rob- [0] (~robbie@haylott.plus.com) |
| 00:30:21 | amiconn | That has nothing to do with fat16<->fat32, it is called vfat and used for both |
| 00:30:27 | rasher | ATTENTION! Transfer speed is not infinite! |
| 00:31:00 | rasher | aha! |
| 00:31:25 | rasher | I was not entirely sure where vfat fitted in this scheme.. I was sortof under the impression that it was just another name for fat32 |
| 00:31:56 | rasher | I guess because vfat is usually always fat32 |
| 00:32:04 | rasher | s/always // |
| 00:32:46 | Rob- | how's the iriver port going? |
| 00:32:55 | rasher | Slowly.. |
| 00:33:09 | rasher | not many people are working on it |
| 00:33:38 | amiconn | rasher: It's not. vfat is used for both fat16 and fat32. In fact, vfat was invented (or at least published) before fat32 |
| 00:33:39 | Camilo | I've got a camera that won't use fat32 but manages with fat12 fwiw |
| 00:34:15 | amiconn | The first Version of Win95 (Win 95 and Win 95a) supports vfat, but not fat32 |
| 00:34:33 | rasher | that's nasty |
| 00:34:39 | amiconn | Win 95b added fat32 |
| 00:35:04 | Camilo | win95b == win95 osr2? |
| 00:35:23 | amiconn | yup |
| 00:35:45 | Camilo | I'm about to obsolete that @ home.... last win box |
| 00:35:52 | amiconn | But there were in fact some more versions of osr2 |
| 00:36:25 | amiconn | I know at least of osr2, osr2.1 and osr2.5 (Win 95c) |
| 00:36:29 | rasher | I recently downgraded a laptop from 2000 to 98 |
| 00:36:34 | rasher | felt so dirty |
| 00:36:47 | rasher | Who's responsible for the tag db? |
| 00:36:52 | preglow | zagor, i think |
| 00:37:09 | rasher | it seems needlessly case-sensitive |
| 00:37:20 | Bagder | I wrote the first perl shot of it |
| 00:37:33 | Bagder | zagor's done the rockbox parts completely |
| 00:37:55 | rasher | I guess this is the perl's fault |
| 00:38:02 | rasher | or at least, better handled there |
| 00:38:03 | Bagder | yes |
| 00:38:22 | * | rasher takes a look at it |
| 00:38:25 | preglow | perl's fault??? |
| 00:38:33 | Bagder | the perl script's fault |
| 00:38:33 | preglow | perl is without flaws |
| 00:38:35 | preglow | ahh |
| 00:38:36 | preglow | :-) |
| 00:38:36 | rasher | the perl( script)'s |
| 00:38:50 | rasher | perl is naughty |
| 00:39:15 | | Quit Ago_ ("Verlassend") |
| 00:39:22 | rasher | mostly because I don't really know it well enough to like it |
| 00:40:19 | preglow | taught myself it a couple of years back |
| 00:40:24 | preglow | been my favourite language since |
| 00:41:24 | rasher | I haven't really needed it |
| 00:41:47 | preglow | well, you seldom need it |
| 00:41:52 | preglow | but it's good for some stuff |
| 00:42:01 | preglow | everything that has to do with parsing and data handling |
| 00:42:07 | preglow | and cpan is a bloody great resource |
| 00:42:14 | preglow | everything has been done before and put there for you to use |
| 00:42:18 | amiconn | It seems I found the fat bug... |
| 00:43:19 | amiconn | ...argh, no :( |
| 00:43:22 | * | rasher creates a mental map of songdb.pl |
| 00:44:02 | Camilo | I love perl |
| 00:44:14 | Camilo | I used to work with perl for a living... |
| 00:44:47 | preglow | i'd survive doing that |
| 00:44:47 | preglow | heh |
| 00:45:08 | Camilo | if I do perl too much it's like a love/hate relationship |
| 00:45:09 | rasher | argh.. this is going to be annoying.. |
| 00:45:31 | Camilo | I always find myself doing a little bit of something else on the side |
| 00:45:43 | rasher | guess the easiest to do is to keep a lowercasename => name array (hash? I can never remember which's which) |
| 00:46:02 | Camilo | if I can help with any perl stuff, let me know :) |
| 00:46:03 | rasher | lots of lookups, and double the memory usage |
| 00:46:17 | | Quit DMJC ("Leaving") |
| 00:46:35 | rasher | I'm sure you could do this faster than me.. it doesn't seem a very complicated problem |
| 00:46:43 | rasher | but I'm going to be stubborn now |
| 00:47:42 | Bagder | then you need to either do them lower or upper case |
| 00:47:51 | Bagder | which is ugly |
| 00:48:08 | rasher | Well not in the db |
| 00:48:12 | rasher | just temporarily |
| 00:48:19 | rasher | to check if it's been used before |
| 00:48:27 | Bagder | right, a case-check-hash |
| 00:48:37 | rasher | yes.. with the real-cased version as value |
| 00:48:39 | t0mas | hmz... |
| 00:48:41 | t0mas | "ANSI C++ forbids implicit conversion from `void *' in assignment" |
| 00:48:48 | t0mas | help! :) |
| 00:48:59 | * | rasher locks t0mas up |
| 00:49:22 | Bagder | t0mas: use explicit cast? |
| 00:49:38 | * | t0mas hit's his head against the wall :) |
| 00:50:30 | Bagder | bed time! |
| 00:50:44 | t0mas | doesn't work |
| 00:50:47 | Camilo | rasher, what's the case problem then? |
| 00:50:48 | t0mas | or I'm doing something wrong |
| 00:51:00 | amiconn | I have to correct myself again :-| I found the spot which causes the bug, but the fix isn't that simple. I'd need a fat expert... |
| 00:51:19 | t0mas | Bagder: I have a function |
| 00:51:19 | Camilo | amiconn, what's the fat query? |
| 00:51:21 | t0mas | typedef void* (*modmain_t)(); |
| 00:51:26 | t0mas | of the modmain_t type |
| 00:51:30 | t0mas | and it return's a void* |
| 00:51:37 | rasher | Camilo: well say I have two files tagged "Album: Foo bar" and "Album: Foo Bar" .. I get two entries |
| 00:51:42 | t0mas | wich is a pointer to a function |
| 00:51:50 | amiconn | Camilo: The problem is that adding an entry to the dir needs 2 scans of the dir |
| 00:51:56 | t0mas | void (*ptr)(); |
| 00:52:00 | t0mas | ptr = modmain(); |
| 00:52:04 | rasher | Camilo: I'd like just one of them to be used (the first encountered, I guess) |
| 00:52:05 | t0mas | gives that error |
| 00:52:58 | amiconn | (1) Find <n> consecutive free entries, where <n> is the number of entries needed to store the longname and the shortname (they need to be consecutive) |
| 00:53:11 | amiconn | (2) Make sure the shortname isn't already taken |
| 00:53:14 | preglow | do any of you guys know when 'and' became a legal substitute to && in c? |
| 00:53:41 | Camilo | rasher, you could keep a hash of lc($x) => $x then look for things that are the same by checking the hash first |
| 00:53:54 | rasher | Yes indeed, that's what I'm planning |
| 00:54:02 | rasher | just need to figure out where to put it |
| 00:54:02 | amiconn | In order to save one read sweep, add_dir_entry() does both scans in a single loop |
| 00:54:38 | Camilo | k rasher |
| 00:54:59 | amiconn | The implementation does not work properly if there is a non-extendable dir which has no free slots |
| 00:55:19 | rasher | I think I have it now.. |
| 00:58:11 | rasher | what's the difference between $$id3{'ARTIST'} and $id3->{'ARTIST'} ? |
| 00:59:09 | t0mas | hmz... Segmentation fault == bed time |
| 00:59:15 | * | t0mas is going to bed... |
| 00:59:31 | t0mas | hope I see it tomorrow :) |
| 00:59:36 | | Quit t0mas ("good night") |
| 01:00 |
| 01:01:04 | Camilo | rasher, the $$ one has an extra indirection |
| 01:01:42 | Camilo | in the example the -> is syntactic sugar and can be omitted (I think) |
| 01:02:30 | rasher | extra indirection? |
| 01:02:58 | Camilo | eg. $y = 'hello' |
| 01:03:04 | | Join lostlogic_ [0] (~lostlogic@node-4024215a.mdw.onnet.us.uu.net) |
| 01:03:09 | Camilo | $x = &$y |
| 01:03:17 | Camilo | print Dumper($x) |
| 01:03:38 | rasher | crazy.. oh well.. let's see if this did it |
| 01:04:09 | Camilo | (Sorry \ not &) |
| 01:04:45 | Camilo | then compare print $x with print $$x |
| 01:12:35 | | Quit lostlogic (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 01:13:31 | rasher | hrm, it almost worked |
| 01:14:08 | rasher | it's using the right albumname, but created a new entry nonetheless |
| 01:16:02 | rasher | not sure I understand that :-\ |
| 01:17:53 | Camilo | hmm |
| 01:18:17 | amiconn | There are more problems in add_dir_entry()... |
| 01:18:35 | rasher | My code is wrong I guess |
| 01:18:42 | rasher | Camilo: want to have a look? |
| 01:20:35 | rasher | it's pretty simple.. I imagine I'm either missing something in the code, or it's just my lack of perl experience.. or both |
| 01:23:29 | Camilo | yeah let me have it |
| 01:23:45 | Camilo | where can I get it? |
| 01:23:58 | Camilo | I can't DCC |
| 01:24:17 | rasher | rasher.dyndns.org/~rasher/songdb.patch">http://rasher.dyndns.org/~rasher/songdb.patch |
| 01:26:04 | Camilo | try this |
| 01:26:47 | Camilo | if (exists($lcalbums{lc($id3->{'ALBUM'})}))... |
| 01:27:10 | rasher | will do |
| 01:27:18 | Camilo | and... |
| 01:28:02 | Camilo | if (exists($lcalbums{lc($$id3->{'ALBUM'})}))... |
| 01:28:19 | Camilo | sorry, if the original code uses $$ to access that hash, then you should, throughout |
| 01:28:21 | rasher | ohah |
| 01:28:39 | rasher | well it uses both |
| 01:28:41 | Camilo | $$id3{'ALBUM'} = $lcalbums{lc($$id3->{'ALBUM'})}; |
| 01:28:48 | rasher | which confuses me |
| 01:29:10 | Camilo | $$id3{'ALBUM'} = $lcalbums{lc($$id3{'ALBUM'})}; |
| 01:29:16 | Camilo | yeah it's not the nicest |
| 01:29:42 | Camilo | they are definitely different - I recommend using $$ in this case because there are $$ references |
| 01:29:54 | Camilo | but in general I'd rarely use $$ |
| 01:30:13 | rasher | alright |
| 01:30:16 | rasher | let me see.. |
| 01:32:44 | rasher | weirder and weirder |
| 01:32:57 | rasher | it's not working for artists, but is for albums.. or maybe it's not working at all |
| 01:33:11 | * | rasher prints some more debug messages |
| 01:33:32 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 01:34:35 | | Quit Sucka ("a bird in the bush is worth two in your house") |
| 01:35:38 | Camilo | I put up littlethorpe.net/songdb.patch |
| 01:36:43 | rasher | 200 Km/h In The Wrong Lane - exists, now: 200 km/h in the wrong lane |
| 01:36:57 | rasher | well that looks right (not a word about me having tatu songs!) |
| 01:37:33 | rasher | maybe I need to do more.. |
| 01:37:48 | rasher | I think that's what I have now |
| 01:37:59 | Camilo | good. |
| 01:38:30 | rasher | hrm |
| 01:40:44 | rasher | ah |
| 01:40:52 | Camilo | I'm gonna go now but mail me if you're stuck |
| 01:40:54 | rasher | they were by different artists |
| 01:40:56 | rasher | typical |
| 01:40:59 | Camilo | lol |
| 01:41:08 | Camilo | so it's OK? |
| 01:41:08 | rasher | well, differently tagged |
| 01:41:12 | rasher | not sure |
| 01:41:17 | rasher | I need to find another example |
| 01:41:27 | rasher | but I'm pretty sure the original version wasn't sure |
| 01:41:31 | rasher | didn't consider case at all |
| 01:41:36 | rasher | uh, wasn't ok |
| 01:42:07 | rasher | guess I'll just fix the tag instead |
| 01:42:36 | Camilo | I have nearly 5000 badly tagged files here to try it on :) |
| 01:42:59 | rasher | heh |
| 01:43:15 | * | preglow hugs freedb masstagger |
| 01:43:17 | Camilo | anyway mail me if I can help more, I'm camilo@mesias.co.uk and I'm going to sleep now |
| 01:43:56 | rasher | I think I'll be able to fix the rest now |
| 01:48:13 | rasher | hurray |
| 01:48:16 | rasher | it's working! |
| 01:51:45 | rasher | well that was fun |
| 01:53:39 | rasher | preglow: that sortof assumes full albums :-\ |
| 01:53:56 | preglow | why, yes |
| 01:54:08 | preglow | i always have full albums |
| 01:54:14 | preglow | more or less always, at least |
| 01:54:27 | rasher | anyway, most of my files are tagged nicely |
| 01:54:30 | rasher | just not album |
| 01:54:34 | rasher | only artist/title |
| 01:54:46 | rasher | except for full albums |
| 01:54:57 | rasher | those are nicely tagged |
| 01:55:21 | * | rasher head off to open a patch-thingy in the patch thing |
| 02:00 |
| 02:00:53 | rasher | wait a minute! |
| 02:03:06 | rasher | this is murder for multi-artist cds! |
| 02:03:12 | rasher | you get an album-entry for each artist :( |
| 02:04:08 | rasher | oh haha |
| 02:04:47 | rasher | I was getting the same error now.. but.. I was using the old version of the songdb.pl |
| 02:05:38 | | Quit Camilo (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 02:07:00 | preglow | song dbs act that way, rasher |
| 02:07:35 | rasher | I built a new song db |
| 02:07:42 | rasher | but with the old version of the script ^.^ |
| 02:07:45 | | Join izzy_ [0] (laitinei@huippu.net) |
| 02:08:56 | | Part amiconn |
| 02:10:34 | rasher | wow |
| 02:10:37 | rasher | iripdb takes ages |
| 02:10:43 | rasher | compared to songdb.pl |
| 02:10:53 | preglow | iripdb is the iriver one? |
| 02:10:54 | rasher | oh.. could be some cache thing |
| 02:10:56 | rasher | probably is |
| 02:10:58 | preglow | yes, it's shite |
| 02:11:26 | rasher | ah, it was cache |
| 02:11:35 | rasher | ran iripdb first, then songdb.pl |
| 02:11:39 | | Join gromit^ [0] (~gromit@ALagny-154-1-6-40.w83-112.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 02:11:49 | rasher | so naturally iripdb had to load from disk, and then, everything was in cache |
| 02:11:55 | rasher | that sure sped it up |
| 02:12:38 | rasher | looks like it's working |
| 02:13:55 | * | rasher ponders some automatic checking of the patches |
| 02:14:07 | rasher | how many errors they spout when applied to the cvs version |
| 02:14:21 | rasher | as a way of seeing how relevant/up to date they are |
| 02:15:41 | rasher | But now I sleep. |
| 02:15:45 | rasher | possibly |
| 02:16:59 | | Quit izzy (Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)) |
| 02:40:27 | rasher | Yup, I will. |
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| 10:00 |
| 10:14:18 | amiconn | boogss are us... |
| 10:20:05 | rasher | 'tis tragic |
| 10:42:34 | HCl | UGH |
| 10:42:55 | HCl | oops, capslock |
| 10:44:24 | amiconn | morning |
| 10:44:43 | HCl | hello |
| 10:48:38 | rasher | morning |
| 10:53:28 | | Join muesli- [0] (muesli_tv@hmln-d9b8ef48.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 10:56:52 | muesli- | re |
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| 11:00 |
| 11:01:31 | * | HCl obviously isn't awake yet... |
| 11:01:34 | HCl | nightmares suck.. |
| 11:01:36 | HCl | so whats new? |
| 11:02:16 | muesli- | charles and camillia got married |
| 11:05:08 | HCl | umyea |
| 11:05:21 | HCl | so did lots of other people, most likely |
| 11:07:15 | muesli- | i didnt, did you? :D |
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| 15:00:08 | webguest05 | can anyone tell me how to install rockbox on my H120 |
| 15:00:14 | webguest05 | iriver |
| 15:00:42 | webguest05 | ?? |
| 15:02:02 | webguest05 | anyone here...? |
| 15:02:58 | webguest05 | awayy |
| 15:04:07 | | Quit webguest05 (Client Quit) |
| 15:04:57 | HCl | heh |
| 15:11:59 | preglow | haha |
| 15:12:04 | preglow | methinks he doesn't really want it |
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| 15:15:42 | DJ_Dooms_Day|AF | God you guys are ass's :P |
| 15:16:11 | elinenbe | DJ_Dooms_Day|AF: what's the deal with your nick? |
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| 16:53:19 | | Join wacky_ [0] (~wacky@modemcable011.4-37-24.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 16:53:25 | wacky_ | Anyone tested the 1.65 firmware yet ?! |
| 16:53:35 | | Join karim [0] (~karim@ip-42.net-81-220-108.rev.numericable.fr) |
| 16:53:39 | karim | salut |
| 16:53:49 | wacky_ | I would have liked to have these recording options.. but I can't leave the on-the-fly playlists ! |
| 16:53:52 | ashridah | 1.65 eh? what's in it? i don't recommend trying it with the rockbox bootloader :) |
| 16:54:07 | wacky_ | well.. a couple of new recording features.. |
| 16:54:12 | * | ashridah stopped going to iriver's site when it became a horrible mess of flash-based tosh |
| 16:55:06 | wacky_ | oh!! |
| 16:55:07 | ashridah | that's it/ |
| 16:55:07 | wacky_ | LinusNielsenFeltzing 2004-04-10: It has now been tested with 1.65 without problems. |
| 16:55:09 | wacky_ | oh yeah!! |
| 16:55:12 | ashridah | ah |
| 16:55:24 | ashridah | so only the recording stuff? no other features? |
| 16:55:52 | wacky_ | dunno |
| 16:55:56 | wacky_ | I'm goign to check out right away :) |
| 16:56:58 | karim | a question |
| 16:57:08 | karim | is there an input volume control ? |
| 16:57:14 | karim | for recording |
| 16:57:24 | karim | that's really missing in the iriver firmware |
| 17:00 |
| 17:02:10 | wacky_ | dunno.. I'm going to check out |
| 17:05:26 | preglow | i think i'll just leave mu 1.63 in |
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| 17:28:22 | elinenbe | amiconn: did you ever get your iriver yet? |
| 17:31:33 | amiconn | Still no iriver :( |
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| 17:36:28 | | Join asdsd_ [0] (~asdsd@h-67-101-127-188.miatflad.dynamic.covad.net) |
| 17:43:30 | | Join [IDC]Dragon [0] (~idc-drago@p3EE2D716.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:43:45 | amiconn | hi Jörg :) |
| 17:43:58 | [IDC]Dragon | Hi Jens, long time no IRC |
| 17:44:03 | amiconn | indeed |
| 17:44:14 | [IDC]Dragon | but I've read the logs, partially |
| 17:44:28 | amiconn | Did you also read about the fat problem? |
| 17:44:35 | [IDC]Dragon | am too busy for "active" rockboxing |
| 17:44:39 | [IDC]Dragon | yes |
| 17:44:59 | [IDC]Dragon | but I've never been in the directory code |
| 17:45:08 | amiconn | Looks like I need to (partially) rewrite add_dir_entry() |
| 17:45:15 | amiconn | It has at least 3 problems |
| 17:45:30 | [IDC]Dragon | would be much better, to recycle the entries |
| 17:45:49 | [IDC]Dragon | and it's not time critical code |
| 17:46:13 | karim | anybody here avec experience with USB 2 ubs ? |
| 17:46:28 | karim | have/avec |
| 17:46:31 | amiconn | (1) It fails on non-extensible dirs, e.g. the fat16 root, but also if an ordinary dir isn't extendable because there is no free space |
| 17:48:00 | * | [IDC]Dragon waits for (2) and (3) |
| 17:48:03 | amiconn | (2) It may fail if a dir is extendable, but not extendable enough, e.g. if extending by one cluster is possible, but not by two. With 512 byte clusters, a longname entry may take more than 1 cluster |
| 17:48:52 | amiconn | (3) It would never ever reuse the very first deleted entry, because it uses index 0 as an indication of "not yet found" |
| 17:49:30 | DJ_Dooms_Day | Hey, any of you guys interested in helping create a RPG/inventory system in doom 3? |
| 17:49:33 | [IDC]Dragon | (3) is probably neglible, or it could return -1 if signed |
| 17:49:36 | amiconn | Then I have another problem, which you also might have read about. My 2 GB MMC arrived, but I can't use it with rockbox yet |
| 17:49:47 | [IDC]Dragon | yes, interesting |
| 17:50:04 | [IDC]Dragon | I'm surprised it works with Archos |
| 17:50:31 | amiconn | Well, it doesn't work correctly. Archos can read the dirs, but playing music isn't possible |
| 17:50:50 | amiconn | (silent play and slower-than-usual scrolling) |
| 17:51:05 | | Join milkclub [0] (~d9896c21@labb.contactor.se) |
| 17:51:09 | [IDC]Dragon | silet play, haha |
| 17:51:15 | [IDC]Dragon | silent |
| 17:51:32 | [IDC]Dragon | maybe the MMC is from Hitachi? |
| 17:52:10 | amiconn | No it isn't. It's branded 'magu'. Afaik these use samsung components |
| 17:52:27 | milkclub | Hey guys. Do you mind if I ask a total n00b question about the rockbox firmware for iRiver H1x0? |
| 17:54:05 | [IDC]Dragon | amiconn: btw, how about using my MMC USB mode powerup patch? |
| 17:54:16 | preglow | milkclub: go ahaead |
| 17:54:35 | amiconn | [IDC]Dragon: I still did not look into that :( |
| 17:55:13 | [IDC]Dragon | I thought it might be appropriate while you're on the MMC subject |
| 17:55:39 | [IDC]Dragon | it seems to uncover a problem |
| 17:56:15 | milkclub | Is there any plan to have 'most played' style playlists built in, that monitors what you play most? It's pretty much the only thing on the iPod I envy, just a silly little thing. |
| 17:56:48 | preglow | well, no plans, but if anyone wants to code it, it's just a matter of doing it |
| 17:56:52 | preglow | sounds like a pretty simple thing |
| 17:57:10 | milkclub | that's what i thought. i haven't got a clue how, though. |
| 17:57:30 | milkclub | i thought as there were going to be games, it might be a nice little feature. just an idea. |
| 17:57:38 | [IDC]Dragon | there's a patch which logs what you've played, iirc |
| 17:57:51 | amiconn | [IDC]Dragon: Maybe I'll do that, but I have a somewhat higher priority to get the new card up and running |
| 17:58:26 | [IDC]Dragon | amiconn: sure. Once you're an MMC user, the desire to stat wit it will come... ;-) |
| 17:58:32 | amiconn | This will be quite some work, adding handling of variable block size |
| 17:58:57 | [IDC]Dragon | for a start, you could encapsulate it |
| 17:59:26 | [IDC]Dragon | although inefficient 4 times slower |
| 17:59:31 | amiconn | That needs to be done anyway. The fat driver needs to work on 512 byte sectors, always |
| 17:59:46 | amiconn | I need to implement a block caching system |
| 17:59:53 | * | [IDC]Dragon wonders why the MMC does so |
| 18:00 |
| 18:00:10 | [IDC]Dragon | are you sure it has to be addressed this way? |
| 18:00:25 | amiconn | In fact MMC can have all power-of-two block sizes up to 2048 bytes |
| 18:00:59 | [IDC]Dragon | I remember you told me about commands addressing on byte level, hence a 4GB limit |
| 18:01:03 | amiconn | Yes I am sure. Both the MBR and the partition boot sector are based on 512 byte/sector |
| 18:01:52 | amiconn | Yes the commands always address byte wise, but you can't easily address partial blocks |
| 18:02:08 | [IDC]Dragon | :-( |
| 18:02:25 | | Quit milkclub ("thanks for the help guys") |
| 18:02:48 | amiconn | The card has 2 bits that tell whether it supports partial block reading (they usually do) and partial block writing (they usually don't) |
| 18:03:38 | amiconn | So it's easier to assume partial blocks are completely impossible |
| 18:06:07 | [IDC]Dragon | yes, although the flags won't be too hard to handle, once you have the code |
| 18:06:58 | amiconn | It would mean more code, and given the fact that all cards I've checked so far don't support partial block writing, I need the block caching anyway |
| 18:07:57 | | Join Stryke` [0] (~Chairman8@resnet-241-86.resnet.UMBC.EDU) |
| 18:08:13 | amiconn | Writing will be significantly slower (2 times for 1024 byte/block, 4 times for 2048 byt/block) if ata_write_sectors is called (sequentially) with count==1 |
| 18:08:52 | amiconn | Calling it with a larger count won't be much slower than for the default 512 byte/block |
| 18:08:58 | [IDC]Dragon | we could have a "cache" for 1 block |
| 18:09:07 | amiconn | I intend to cache 2 blocks |
| 18:09:24 | [IDC]Dragon | or that |
| 18:09:48 | amiconn | ..for swap-copying the next block while one block is transferring on write, like it is now |
| 18:10:11 | * | [IDC]Dragon remembers vaguely |
| 18:10:46 | [IDC]Dragon | and I drool about your 2 GB card, in general |
| 18:11:08 | amiconn | The really ugly thing is that for >512 byte/block, writing a single sector needs to read the whole block first (if it's not already cached), replace the sector, then write back the whole block |
| 18:12:35 | [IDC]Dragon | and with "simple" caching, you don't know if there's more to come |
| 18:12:55 | [IDC]Dragon | but for multi-sector transfers you do |
| 18:13:00 | amiconn | http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=77330&item=7503478616 |
| 18:14:01 | [IDC]Dragon | less than twice as much as my 1GB |
| 18:14:21 | amiconn | The cache will work similar to the fat cache, i.e. remember which block(s) it holds, so subsequent writes to the same block saves the read |
| 18:15:11 | [IDC]Dragon | yes, but if the whole block is written, the read was unnecessary |
| 18:15:12 | amiconn | I also consider to use deferred write-back, i.e. only write back (1) if the cache is needed for a different block or (2) a timeout expires |
| 18:16:01 | amiconn | That would solve the write slowdown and reduce the flash wear for large blocks (by factor of 2/4) |
| 18:16:55 | amiconn | This is probably the second step, but needs handling of special cases (unit shutdown...) |
| 18:17:01 | [IDC]Dragon | yep |
| 18:17:08 | preglow | how many write cycles do those cards stand? |
| 18:17:10 | [IDC]Dragon | MMC extraction |
| 18:17:24 | [IDC]Dragon | I'd be careful about write caching |
| 18:18:20 | amiconn | The timeout would be small, I think 0.1 s would be more than enough to catch sequential single-sector writes |
| 18:19:01 | [IDC]Dragon | I see it's all in your mind already |
| 18:19:25 | amiconn | Another bad thing is that the block cache needs to be moved out of IRAM (not enough space) |
| 18:19:59 | [IDC]Dragon | was that useful? |
| 18:20:11 | [IDC]Dragon | MMC transfer is slow anyway |
| 18:20:43 | [IDC]Dragon | thanks to our SH, the MMC is not to blame |
| 18:20:46 | amiconn | It speeds up transfer to/(from) the cache |
| 18:22:38 | [IDC]Dragon | significantly? |
| 18:23:29 | amiconn | I didn't measure... |
| 18:24:23 | amiconn | I remember that you managed to run the fat test. Could you tell me something about it? |
| 18:24:48 | amiconn | I once looked at it, but didn't really understand how it's supposed to be used |
| 18:25:43 | [IDC]Dragon | it probably needs to be updates, since multivolume |
| 18:25:57 | [IDC]Dragon | what don't you understand? |
| 18:26:23 | [IDC]Dragon | (afk for a minute) |
| 18:29:08 | amiconn | Well, I don't understand how I am supposed to actually run this or that test |
| 18:30:05 | amiconn | Mounting the test image to access it from the PC isn't the problem. I have at least 2 options (now) |
| 18:31:01 | [IDC]Dragon | you need linux |
| 18:31:08 | amiconn | Not really |
| 18:31:35 | [IDC]Dragon | for the shell script chkdsk |
| 18:32:08 | [IDC]Dragon | for my test, I stripped that off the script |
| 18:32:28 | amiconn | Well, I can use my linux installation (debian under vmware) |
| 18:32:37 | [IDC]Dragon | Zagor than later ran the full thing for me |
| 18:33:19 | [IDC]Dragon | I have a little freeware program that can mount an image file under Win32 |
| 18:33:45 | amiconn | I could also use the image as a file disk for a virtual machine, then run windows in it |
| 18:35:28 | [IDC]Dragon | the progam is called VDK, and is originally made for VMware images |
| 18:35:35 | amiconn | The shell script isn't of much use for testing my directory fixes, since it creates its own test images. I need to test on an image with a filled-up (with most entries marked as deleted) root dir |
| 18:36:07 | amiconn | Of course the test script should also run without error |
| 18:36:09 | [IDC]Dragon | you can adapt it |
| 18:36:14 | | Join DJ_Dooms_Day|AF [0] (DJ_Dooms_D@dialup-202.49.194.203.acc01-dryb-mel.comindico.com.au) |
| 18:36:23 | [IDC]Dragon | maybe I did so, too |
| 18:37:29 | [IDC]Dragon | I think I even made a plain batch file |
| 18:46:05 | [IDC]Dragon | amiconn: for your 2 GB card, the cluster size should be 32KB |
| 18:46:36 | [IDC]Dragon | so you won't see too many single sector transfers, right? |
| 18:46:44 | amiconn | yes and no. |
| 18:47:02 | amiconn | The cluster size is indeed 32KB, because it is fat16 formatted |
| 18:47:40 | amiconn | But there is a number of functions that uses single sector buffers. add_dir_entry() is an example.... |
| 18:48:10 | amiconn | The data transfers should be at least cluster sized |
| 18:48:22 | [IDC]Dragon | yes, that's what I meant |
| 18:48:52 | [IDC]Dragon | and if the start sector is block aligned, you don't need to read before write |
| 18:50:06 | * | [IDC]Dragon remembers peple with problems on 1 GB cards, perhaps these were != 512 byte/block ? |
| 18:50:07 | amiconn | yup |
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| 19:08:47 | * | [IDC]Dragon waves goodby |
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| 21:01:13 | rasher | Flashed with 1.65EU now.. working fine :) |
| 21:04:56 | rasher | Bagder: why did you stop the Rockbox Digest? Lack of time/interest or something else? |
| 21:06:36 | thegeek | was the loader injected? |
| 21:06:49 | rasher | yes |
| 21:06:52 | thegeek | ah |
| 21:06:59 | thegeek | brave;) |
| 21:07:28 | rasher | not much - http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IriverBoot |
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| 22:22:32 | | Join bill2or3 [0] (bill@cerberus.protovision.com) |
| 22:23:30 | bill2or3 | can anyone point me to a comparison of the different models features? |
| 22:23:38 | bill2or3 | (of the archos) |
| 22:24:27 | | Join TCK| [0] (TCK@81-86-102-111.dsl.pipex.com) |
| 22:25:41 | bill2or3 | I'm looking at a Jukebox20, and dont want to end up getting the wrong model.. |
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| 22:40:15 | rasher | bill2or3: there's a feature comparison page on rockbox.org |
| 22:41:13 | rasher | http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/DeviceChart |
| 22:42:06 | bill2or3 | thanks rasher |
| 22:43:22 | | Quit TCK (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 22:44:38 | bill2or3 | so the 'FM Recorder' is the best one.. |
| 22:45:16 | rasher | Unless you're prepared to wait for the iriver port |
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| 22:46:12 | bill2or3 | I think I'd like to have the fm tuner |
| 22:46:31 | rasher | the iRiver has fm |
| 22:46:38 | bill2or3 | ahh.. a lot smaller too. |
| 22:47:00 | rasher | not sure how the price compares though |
| 22:47:09 | rasher | plus, they're out of production and hard to get hold of |
| 22:47:16 | | Quit gromit^ ("Leaving") |
| 22:47:35 | bill2or3 | hmm. |
| 22:47:52 | bill2or3 | http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5766178983 |
| 22:48:00 | bill2or3 | that looks like it'll go pretty cheap.. |
| 22:48:53 | rasher | sure does |
| 22:49:04 | bill2or3 | how big of a drive can I stick in there? |
| 22:49:16 | rasher | No idea |
| 22:49:20 | rasher | pretty big I think |
| 22:50:03 | rasher | as long as it's 9.5mm high, most will work I think |
| 22:50:17 | rasher | http://www.funmp3players.com/reviews/modify/ |
| 22:51:40 | bill2or3 | I found an old irc log that says up to 120g |
| 22:53:21 | elinenbe | rasher: is it true that you have a version of rockbox for the iriver that can rolo into the iriver firmware? |
| 22:53:47 | rasher | No, that was not me |
| 22:53:59 | | Quit TCK| (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 22:54:02 | bill2or3 | hm |
| 22:54:19 | bill2or3 | the chart says no drive spindown on the player, that's gotta suck batteries. |
| 22:55:14 | elinenbe | rasher: thanks... no problem. |
| 23:00 |
| 23:00:53 | rasher | googling to find out who it is... I'm also interested in that |
| 23:07:46 | | Join amiconn [0] (~jens@pD95D17C5.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 23:08:13 | amiconn | hi |
| 23:08:52 | amiconn | bill2or3: It's not that the player can't spin down the disk (the would really suck battery), but it can' |
| 23:09:02 | amiconn | t physically power down the disk |
| 23:09:48 | bill2or3 | ahh, so it's not a big deal battery-wise? |
| 23:09:55 | amiconn | In fact, almost all players except the very oldest ones can do that, but it's not enabled in the official rockbox builds because a few players crash if they try |
| 23:10:17 | bill2or3 | is that Jukebox10 I linked on ebay a model worth getting? |
| 23:10:18 | amiconn | Physically powering down the disk just saves a little more battery |
| 23:10:34 | bill2or3 | I see that it has the character display only. |
| 23:11:32 | amiconn | I wouldn't really recommend the player, because of 3 main disadvantages |
| 23:11:49 | amiconn | (1) No graphic display (2) USB 1.1 only (3) No recording |
| 23:12:00 | bill2or3 | yeah, (2) is a killer |
| 23:12:01 | | Quit rasher ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 23:12:29 | bill2or3 | it looks like all the fun plugins need the graphic display. |
| 23:12:52 | amiconn | It would become a real issue with a larger HD. Btw, as you asked: The jukeboxes use standard 2.5" laptop drives, height 9.5 mm. |
| 23:13:17 | | Join rasher [0] (~3e4f4094@labb.contactor.se) |
| 23:13:34 | t0mas | hi rasher |
| 23:13:37 | t0mas | and bye everyone |
| 23:13:39 | | Quit t0mas ("Goodnight") |
| 23:13:42 | amiconn | Up to 128 GB (or 137 GB as the hd manufacturers count) are possible; up to 100 GB are available |
| 23:14:49 | amiconn | bill2or3: Depending on the features you want, and if you don't want to wait for the iriver port to finish, I'd recommend either a v1 recorder or an fm recorder |
| 23:15:07 | bill2or3 | http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5766186183 |
| 23:15:46 | amiconn | The fm recorder has an fm tuner (obviously), but reception isn't all that good afaik (I don't have one myself). It's also a little lighter because it uses a LiIon battery |
| 23:15:52 | bill2or3 | what's the model name for the V1 recorder? |
| 23:16:06 | amiconn | The v1 recorder has the advantage of (simply exchangeable) NiMH AA batteries |
| 23:16:36 | bill2or3 | ahh |
| 23:16:46 | amiconn | 'Archos Jukebox Recorder'. If you go for one, note that only the 20 GB models have USB2.0 |
| 23:16:57 | bill2or3 | is that one I just linked to supported by rockbox, or is it one of the newer video ones? |
| 23:17:36 | amiconn | This is a Jukebox Multimedia and doesn't support rockbox |
| 23:17:53 | bill2or3 | k |
| 23:19:35 | | Quit pfavr ("ChatZilla 0.9.61 [Mozilla rv:1.7.6/20050324]") |
| 23:19:36 | amiconn | A v1 recorder: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=48682&item=5766201913&rd=1 |
| 23:21:32 | bill2or3 | AS IS - Selling for Parts or Repair. Item powers on but does not function. |
| 23:21:43 | bill2or3 | what are the odds that that is just a crashed drive? |
| 23:22:06 | amiconn | Ooops, overlooked that :( |
| 23:22:28 | amiconn | An FM recorder, somewhat expensive already: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=48682&item=5765929432&rd=1 |
| 23:22:43 | bill2or3 | do the drives fail often if they get dropped? |
| 23:23:04 | bill2or3 | because if I could get that first one for <$50 and put a drive in, it'd be a deal. |
| 23:24:20 | amiconn | The most observed problem (from looking at the ml and the forum) is bad contacts (battery, grounding) |
| 23:24:42 | bill2or3 | hmm |
| 23:24:48 | bill2or3 | that one says it powers on. |
| 23:24:59 | bill2or3 | I'd guess it would be a failed drive. |
| 23:25:07 | bill2or3 | if it stays cheap maybe I'll bid |
| 23:25:55 | amiconn | Another FM recorder: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=48682&item=5766519053&rd=1 |
| 23:26:12 | bill2or3 | which model do you have? |
| 23:26:21 | amiconn | It seems to me there is more junk on ebay usa than on ebay germany... |
| 23:26:44 | bill2or3 | I always look at ebay.de for scooter parts. |
| 23:26:50 | amiconn | I have a recorder v1 (USB2, upgraded to 80 GB), a Studio 10 and an Ondio SP |
| 23:30:31 | amiconn | v1 recorder: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=48682&item=5765983769&rd=1 |
| 23:30:49 | rasher | dammit, I found discussion about wanting "boot iriver firmware" menu entry |
| 23:31:03 | rasher | but not the actual thing |
| 23:31:36 | bill2or3 | so the difference between the V1 and V2 recorders is the just the batteries? |
| 23:34:02 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 23:34:35 | amiconn | The batteries is the main difference. There are some more slight differences: (1) The v2 and fm don't have the option to connect a remote. (2) The v1 has both digital in and out, the v2/fm have digital in only |
| 23:34:52 | amiconn | Basically, the v2 recorder is the fm recorder without the radio |
| 23:35:34 | bill2or3 | ah. so you can hook up a mic to the v1? |
| 23:35:38 | bill2or3 | that'd be nice. |
| 23:37:15 | amiconn | Both types have a builtin mic (which is only really usable for voice notes because it will pick up the hd noise). In order to hook up an external mic you'll need a preamp |
| 23:37:28 | | Join charlieboy [0] (~18da9e41@labb.contactor.se) |
| 23:37:34 | bill2or3 | oh. |
| 23:37:49 | bill2or3 | well I dont really care about digital in or the remote. |
| 23:40:39 | charlieboy | hello :) |
| 23:40:52 | | Quit matsl ("Leaving") |
| 23:41:38 | | Nick TCK- is now known as TCK (TCK@81-86-209-50.dsl.pipex.com) |
| 23:42:27 | | Nick TCK is now known as TCK- (TCK@81-86-209-50.dsl.pipex.com) |
| 23:47:11 | bill2or3 | what rate does the fm recorder record at? |
| 23:52:45 | * | rasher goes insane |
| 23:57:10 | | Quit _aLF ("Leaving") |
| 23:57:27 | | Quit charlieboy ("CGI:IRC") |
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