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#rockbox log for 2005-06-01

00:00:23Bagderand it should work with source from the daily tarball
00:00:36Bagderif anything of this fails, there's a bug somewhere
00:00:48XavierGrbut why the cvs source is smaller with less folders?
00:01:05 Quit thegeek (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
00:01:57XavierGryeah doing the mix up produced more errors
00:02:36Bagdersmaller with less folders?
00:02:38amiconnIf your cvs checkout does contain less folders, you didn't checkout everything
00:03:44XavierGri type "cvs -z3 -d:pserver:anonymous@www.rockbox.org:/cvsroot/rockbox co rockbox" as the documentation says
00:04:02 Join Stryke` [0] (~Chairman8@cpe-24-168-110-99.si.res.rr.com)
00:04:52XavierGrdoes it matters if I am in another folder when i type it?
00:06:46XavierGrwell the cvs has 5 folders where the daily build has 8 folders!! Any ideas?
00:07:09LinusNXavierGr: co rockbox-all
00:08:28 Quit FireEgl (Connection reset by peer)
00:11:12XavierGryeah thanks LinusN now it is downloading all the folders
00:11:41XavierGrand some more even from the daily build!
00:12:35 Join FireEgl [0] (Ariel@Atlantica.US)
00:12:41amiconnLinusN: I tweaked my new recording loop; however, saving a file from the recording screen when a fsinfo scan is needed still takes unusally long
00:13:07amiconn(about 10 seconds for a write() of ~70 KB, not counting the open() and the spinup)
00:13:26amiconn...even when recording is paused, i.e. without interrupt load
00:13:38amiconnHowever, I observed another thing:
00:13:51 Join ehntoo [0] (~noclue2@24-177-161-77.dhcp.mrqt.mi.charter.com)
00:14:54amiconnThe red LED blinking for 'recording standby' is rather irregular. Maybe the recording screen doesn't yield() often enough (?)
00:15:38 Quit TiMiD[FD] ("leaving")
00:15:43amiconnMaybe this was introduced with triggered recording...
00:16:48LinusNthe blinking isn't "recording standby"
00:17:13LinusNit blinks when the trigger level is above the threshold
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00:17:20 Join ze [0] (ze@ca-dstreet-cuda2-c9a-73.snbrca.adelphia.net)
00:17:20XavierGrhmm now it is downloading this
00:17:21XavierGrU www/internals/archos_top.jpg
00:17:21XavierGrU www/internals/bjorn.t
00:17:28XavierGris that right?
00:17:30amiconnLinusN: I don't have any trigger activated...
00:17:34LinusNXavierGr: yeah
00:17:35BagderXavierGr: you get the lot
00:17:38Bagderyou asked for it
00:17:53 Quit FireEgl (Remote closed the connection)
00:17:57XavierGrso how much data is in there?
00:18:01LinusNmaybe rockbox-devel would have been better...?
00:18:02XavierGrin MB?
00:18:03BagderI dunno
00:19:21XavierGrSo it will download all the site!?
00:19:35Bagderall the cvs repo, yes
00:19:43amiconnLinusN: Hmm; now I 'visited' the trigger settings screen once, and it doesn't blink any more....
00:21:13XavierGrit stopped fehww!!!!
00:21:21amiconnXavierGr: A full checkout is ~27 MB
00:21:43XavierGrgood it is around that
00:21:58XavierGr17.2 rared
00:27:50 Quit ted2005 ()
00:28:14XavierGrhooray it built fine!!
00:28:19XavierGrthanks all!
00:28:43XavierGrNow i will try to fix some plugins for the iriver
00:29:04XavierGr(not that I will succeed but I will try anyway)
00:31:53 Quit ze (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:33:28XavierGrbut now I got the same error when I try to open plug-ins inside the simulator
00:33:42XavierGrrockboxui.exe - bad image
00:34:00LinusNdid you do "make install"
00:34:39austriancoderwould it be a good idea, to run doxygen over rockbox code to get a nice api-doku?
00:34:44XavierGr"The application or DLL C:\cygwin\rockbox-all\build\archos\.rockbox\rocks\bounce.rock is not a valid Windows image."
00:34:51Bagderaustriancoder: yes I think so
00:35:00 Join ze [0] (ze@ca-dstreet-cuda2-c9a-73.snbrca.adelphia.net)
00:35:02BagderI once tried to, but failed for some weird reason
00:35:14XavierGrLinusN:Just type make install instead of make?
00:35:29BagderXavierGr: no, after you did 'make'
00:35:33LinusNno, after make
00:35:42amiconn:)
00:36:19austriancoderBagder: I will try it..
00:39:46XavierGri had placed a .rockbox folder into the archos folder. I just did a make install and it gave me a rockbox.zip with a .rockbox folder where I put on the archos folder
00:39:56XavierGragain
00:39:58XavierGrthe same
00:40:00XavierGrerror
00:40:20XavierGrits strange though because I have an old build of the simulator and it runs fine
00:42:09XavierGrok i fixedit
00:42:30XavierGrI was doing something stupid probably.
00:43:20XavierGrThanks and sorry to bother you. I just wanna try to help. (seems difficult though)
00:45:04 Join TCK [0] (TCK@81-86-99-123.dsl.pipex.com)
00:45:13amiconnLinusN: I found out why the LED is blinking irregularly.
00:46:35amiconnIt is supposed to blink regularly but can't because the recording screen wants it to blink at ~3 Hz (16 ticks on / 16 ticks off), but peakmeter_draw_get_button() runs for 0.1 sec (10 ticks)
00:47:31amiconnThe 16 / 10 ticks ratio doesn't do any good...
00:48:11amiconn...and it seems the peakmeter is drawing too much CPU power
00:50:28HClnight.
00:54:29XavierGrnight
00:55:05 Quit Stryke` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:55:50austriancoderBagder: i have done a doxygen run
00:56:28austriancoderand it only works fine with libflac code, because it uses a doxygen-liked commenting style
00:58:29preglowdoxygen :/
00:59:00XavierGrlets say that I want to recompile aand fix a plug-in. All i have to do is find the .c file of the plug-in, make the changes and then rebuild the uisimulator?
00:59:35austriancoderdoxygen is a very nice tool.. maybe i can play a little with the options
01:00
01:00:08preglowi can't remember having seen a project that uses doxygen properly
01:00:28pregloweverything ends up like half-baked pdf files full of function and struct declarations
01:01:31rasherlet's be the first!
01:03:20austriancoderi have seen many projects using doxygen successfully
01:03:30austriancoderogre3d for instance
01:04:50preglowi can't find any doxygen generated docs on their site
01:05:49austriancoderhttp://www.ogre3d.org/docs/api/html/
01:06:17preglowriiight, i'm blind
01:07:06preglowlooks like the same old shit to me
01:07:22preglowhttp://www.ogre3d.org/docs/api/html/structbsp__model__t.html
01:07:25preglownice example of what i mean
01:07:30preglowit isn't even annoted
01:07:34preglowit's just a reformated header
01:07:52austriancoderit is only some infos about the API.. nothing more
01:08:22preglowsure, it's just that i don't see the point in generating html/pdf docs when it nonetheless just is a reformated version of the headers themselves
01:08:28preglowbut it can't hurt, i guess
01:08:33preglowjust me being easily annoyed, heh
01:08:47LinusNpreglow: i agree with you
01:09:37austriancoderbut it makes researching easier...
01:09:37preglowi'll take that as authorative proof that i'm right
01:10:02preglowwell, if you think so, i'd just as well read the headers themselves, at least then i know i'm not missing out on anything
01:10:31LinusNi think i can find my way faster with grep than clicking around in doxygen
01:10:44LinusNbut hey, i'm old :-)
01:11:21austriancoderit was only an idea.. i have seen a menu entry in kdevelop for doxygen.. thats all
01:11:46LinusNi think doxygen might be a good thing...if used correctly
01:12:00preglowsure, i agree, my original point is that it never is used correctly
01:12:12LinusNexactly
01:12:24austriancoderwhat do you mean with correctly?
01:12:39 Join ashridah [0] (ashridah@220-253-123-50.VIC.netspace.net.au)
01:13:10LinusNcorrectly == using special comments to spice up the doxygen generated pages
01:13:31austriancoderas libflac does it...
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01:13:42LinusNyup
01:14:19preglowso libflac does something correctly, at least
01:14:45austriancoderis it ok for you, that my next commits will use some doxygen style documentation as in libflac?
01:14:47LinusNthe 5249 dma controller is so farking lame!
01:14:51preglowoh?
01:15:16 Join lostlogic [0] (~lostlogic@node-4024215a.mdw.onnet.us.uu.net)
01:15:31LinusNit attempts to detect bad register settings, i.e bad alignment and sizes
01:15:50LinusNfor example if size == 2 on longword transfers
01:15:57LinusNor even worse, 3
01:16:39LinusNbut size == 0 also triggers a config error
01:17:18***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:17:27preglowhahah
01:17:42LinusNso if the dma controller is finished (size == 0) and the audio unit wants more data, the dma controller signals config error
01:18:20LinusNso the dma interrupt has basically no time to react
01:18:33XavierGris there a faster way of compiling plug-ins instead of recompiling the whole rockbox source?
01:18:48rasherXavierGr: "make" shouldn't take long if all you've changed is plugins
01:18:48preglowXavierGr: should rebuild automatically
01:19:23XavierGrmake inside the plug-ins or build?
01:19:28ashridahXavierGr: if you avoid 'make clean', and no-one's changed a header that's used everywhere, make should only compile the changed stuff
01:19:36preglowXavierGr: always inside build
01:21:15preglowLinusN: oh well, not the first lame thing about this cpu
01:21:27LinusNannoys me to death
01:21:34preglowunderstandable
01:21:37preglowbut i really should start contemplating the bed
01:21:43LinusNsame here
01:21:50preglowsee you later, all
01:21:50preglowgnite
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01:23:56XavierGrhere is what I did: I changed some code to \apps\plugins\calculator.c i can compile everything up again running ../tools/configure and then make. But how can I compile only the calculator plugin?
01:25:42amiconnGah, this is annoying :(
01:26:10amiconnLinusN: Do you have an idea how to check which thread or other code is eating up cpu time?
01:34:16 Quit _aLEX ("Leaving")
01:37:52LinusNamiconn: not really
01:38:18LinusNXavierGr: you don't need to run configure again
01:39:05rasherin fact, you shouldn't
01:41:39LinusNjust run "make" after you have changed the plugin source code
01:43:43XavierGrthanks again it worked
01:44:49XavierGrdo you think that make install will change the .rockbox alone or do I have manually to delete the .rockbox directory and then type make install?
01:45:46LinusNmake install updates .rockbox
01:46:03LinusNall you need to do is "make" and then "make install"
01:47:07XavierGryes but it seems that I have to manually delete ".rockbox" because if I dont I dont get the latest updates, i will try again.
01:50:53LinusNXavierGr: i don't have to delete it, and i haven't heard of anybody else having to do it either
01:52:42CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
01:52:42*LinusN goes to bed
01:52:58LinusNcu in a few hours
01:53:01 Part LinusN
01:59:54CoCoLUShttp://img.engadget.com/common/images/2512853438673730.JPG?0.8177002958975231
01:59:59CoCoLUSand now we are in trouble
02:00
02:00:03CoCoLUSprepare for the lawsuits :P
02:00:29zethat says rocbox not rockbox
02:00:43zeplus there was a player called rockbox that showed up a couple years ago
02:00:48zerockbox firmware came first anyway
02:00:57 Join Carman [0] (Poopie@modem-287.munger.dialup.pol.co.uk)
02:01:09XavierGryeah and i think this has been discussed before
02:01:15zeand beside all that firmware != player, different animal, no conflict
02:02:35CoCoLUShm
02:02:42ehntooI've seen it before.
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03:17:21***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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07:05:13 Quit Aditya ("Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/")
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07:39:00 Join LinusN [0] (~linus@labb.contactor.se)
07:53:47ashridahlinusn
07:53:53LinusNhola
08:00
08:12:52LinusNhmm, we need to rethink the pcm playback system
08:13:17LinusNthe dma interrupt handler is too slow
08:13:34LinusNor we have to rethink the cpu_boost concept
08:21:25ashridahi take it you're boosting whenever's required?
08:21:31ashridahhence the boost-count stuff?
08:22:15LinusNyes
08:24:20LinusNthe problem is that the cpu has to step down to 11MHz when changing the pll
08:24:36LinusNso it will run at 11MHz for up to 10ms
08:24:54LinusNand the dma interrupt handler is too slow for that
08:25:39LinusNand the dma itself eats up a considerable amount of the memory bandwidth
08:26:48ashridahso, we have no choice but to either a) run at max speed all the time (bye bye battery life), or figure out a way to make sure the dma interrupt never triggers while we need to change speeds.
08:27:32ashridahthere's no way you can't schedule it to wait until immediately after a dma interrupt is finished?
08:29:52LinusNthere are a number of ways to solve it
08:30:23LinusNif we decide to keep the cpu frequency constant, we don't have to run it at max speed
08:30:45LinusNwe can set it to any speed we like
08:31:12LinusNwe can also make sure the dma interrupt triggers when we want it to
08:31:26LinusNand that can even be "never"
08:31:59LinusNor we can make sure that cpu_boost doesn't collide with the dma interrupt
08:32:16LinusNor we can optimize the dma interrupt handler
08:33:18 Part courtc ("Leaving")
08:33:37ashridahpotentially how far appart do dma interrupts trigger, for pcm playback? (i assume it's the audio output stuff that's asking for more stuff when it does)
08:33:43ashridahor are we talking disk access dma handling?
08:34:26LinusNthe only dma is the audio dma
08:34:47LinusNthe dma interrupt triggers when the dma block transfer is done
08:34:55LinusNand a block can be huge
08:35:06LinusNup to 16Mbytes
08:35:21LinusNin our current implementation, it's 32kbytes
08:35:40LinusNrougly 1/3 of a second
08:35:43ashridahi'm assuming the audio output stage has its own buffering, so it can wait while you setup a new range to output?
08:35:59LinusNthat's the problem
08:36:11ashridahit's too small?
08:38:28LinusNthe docs are a bit unclear, but if i understand it correctly, it triggers a dma transfer when the fifo is empty
08:38:52LinusNand then you only have a few microseconds to respond
08:43:36Slasherihi
08:44:46LinusNhi Slasheri
08:44:58LinusNi have found the reason for the cpu_boost hang
08:45:09LinusNor should i say reasons
08:46:02Slasherithat's great, i was just reading the logs :)
08:46:41LinusNgreat that i found it, but not so great that it is a hard one to solve
08:46:45 Join oxygen77 [0] (~c1c28427@labb.contactor.se)
08:46:51Slasherinow it's easier to make a fix as we know the reason
08:46:57LinusNsure
08:47:21LinusNthe immediate fix is of course to run at full speed all the time
08:47:58LinusNthe long-term fix is probably to rewrite the pcm playback code
08:48:24Slasherihmm, yes. Maybe we could really do the cpu_boost switch immediately after dma interrupt as said above so that should work
08:48:32LinusNi wish the dma controller wasn't so incredibly lame
08:51:03LinusNthis is my idea:
08:51:41LinusNthe current dma interrupt looks up the next buffer address/size using the callback
08:51:48LinusNand then reprograms the dma
08:52:11LinusNthis may happen too late
08:52:52 Join einhirn [0] (Miranda@bsod.rz.tu-clausthal.de)
08:53:50LinusNif we instead provide the new address/size in another way, the dma handler can find it more quickly and reprogram the dma first, and then call the callback for the upcoming address/size
08:54:42LinusNi.e always have two globals up-to-date, next_dma_address and next_dma_size
08:55:06Slasheriah, interesting
08:55:33LinusNanother idea is to set the size to a huge value and just let the dma run
08:55:46LinusNchanging only the address when necessary
08:55:50LinusNon the fly
08:56:10LinusNthis is not recommended by the data sheet but i think it could work
08:56:23SlasheriHmm, i think that both of these could be good solutions
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08:57:38LinusNthe latter solution may be tricky, as the dma could run past the dma buffer if we don't change the address in time, or stop the audio request
08:58:18LinusNi think we should try the first solution
08:58:36LinusNgotta go away for a few minutes
08:59:06Slasheriindeed, that might be better if we could it working that way
08:59:10Slasherii will try something :)
09:00
09:12:15 Quit rasher (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
09:12:40SlasheriHmm, this looks promising :)
09:14:02 Join Harpy [0] (XH7VutxuZt@dsl-hkigw7wbb.dial.inet.fi)
09:17:00LinusNSlasheri: we could of course abandon my stuff with the add_chunk api and use only the ring buffer method
09:17:26SlasheriHmm..
09:17:30***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
09:18:00Slasherianyway, i think this is the solution
09:18:28Slasheriat least system is not crashing now when i go to the debug menu and change frequency
09:18:55LinusNwhat did you do?
09:19:19SlasheriI need to do few more tests to be sure, just a moment
09:19:38 Join preglow [0] (thomj@s183a.studby.ntnu.no)
09:19:53LinusNtook me quite a while to figure out the cause of the crash
09:20:35preglowi can imagine
09:20:49preglowretarded hardware does that to you
09:27:39preglowby god, i am extremely tired of this computer fan hell
09:28:55Mr_Wikwatercooling is the solution ;)
09:31:20preglownot a solution i currently employ, unfortunately
09:32:58Mr_Wik:-/
09:33:03LinusNthere were in fact two problems
09:33:12LinusN1) the dma is braindead
09:33:29LinusN2) the dma interrupt was at level 7, which meant it could interrupt itself
09:33:59LinusNfilling the stack in no time, overwriting iram code
09:35:51preglowhahah, ouch
09:36:00preglowwell, does it fare better if you raise the priority?
09:36:59LinusNraise? how? level 7 is the highest
09:37:21LinusNlowering it made it behave better
09:37:56LinusNsince level 7 is nmi, unmaskable
09:38:16preglowbah, nevermind me
09:38:25preglowi haven't done much interrupt level stuff
09:38:27SlasheriLinusN: I think it's crashing no more :) At least i am unable to make it crash with music playing and dynamic cpu_boost enabled
09:38:40LinusNSlasheri: what did you do?
09:38:52SlasheriLinusN: Do you think the whole add_chunk thing is unnecessary?
09:39:13LinusNit's a handy interface, but we can live without it
09:39:46SlasheriI made the next buffer descriptors to global variables so those can be read immediately we reach the dma interrupt
09:39:58LinusNgreat
09:40:08LinusNgimme da patch man!
09:40:26Slasherijust a moment, now there is a little glitch when cpu frequency is changing
09:40:30Slasherineed to fix that =)
09:40:41Slasheriprobably some problem with that quick hack
09:40:43LinusNglitch?
09:41:08Slasheriyes, some interrupt with the audio output
09:41:16LinusNbadness
09:41:19Slasheri:/
09:42:58LinusNtry puttin the descriptors in iram
09:43:07LinusNor at least the globals
09:43:16Slasheriah, i think it's buffering problem only
09:43:29Slasherishould be fixed soon, i just made some bug
09:43:34LinusNoki
09:43:37Slasheri:)
09:43:52LinusNmake sure the globals are updated both in add_chunk and in the callback
09:46:04Slasherithe problem was only that the pcm buffer data will get overwritten when the buffer reaches full state :)
09:47:01LinusNaha
09:47:22LinusNgimme gimme gimme da patch before midnight...
09:47:36Slasheriof course, when it's midnight there? :)
09:48:02Bagderare you Bjorn or Benny? :-P
09:48:11Slasheri:D
09:48:31*Bagder has his ABBA-recognition filter activated
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09:49:32bobTHCmornin' folks !
09:49:37preglowhowdy
09:50:48SlasheriLinusN: Hmm, this would be much easier to fix if the other add_chunk code would be not needed (as ring buffering does almost the same thing)
09:52:01SlasheriAh, okay these are not exactly same. Ring buffer needs memcpy and add_chunk does not
09:52:09SlasheriSo it's good to have both of them
09:52:26preglowavoiding memory copy is a good thing
10:00
10:05:08 Join b0bTHC [0] (~foo@l06m-18-194.d1.club-internet.fr)
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10:27:07 Nick Lynx0 is now known as Lynx_ (HydraIRC@134.95.189.59)
10:36:58*amiconn can catch the digital flow now :)
10:37:05Bager:))
10:37:06Bagderwoooo
10:37:16Bagdercrongratulations!
10:37:24Bagders/cr/c
10:37:47Bagerdon't let it run out
10:38:06ashridahno, i think 'crongratulations' is almost right, given that the company is korean
10:38:12ashridahmaybe loose the l
10:38:18Bagder:-)
10:38:51LinusNclongraturations
10:39:02crwlclonglatulations
10:39:06*Bagder giggles
10:39:18preglowamiconn: w00t
10:42:48 Quit bobTHC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
10:45:02BagerLinusN: i know it's low priority, but did you take a comparing picture between H1x0's and H3x0's LCD remotes ?
10:45:14LinusNnope
10:46:00Bageroki
10:48:41Bagerjust asking :)
10:51:06SlasheriLinusN: Now i got it working
10:51:15LinusNwee!
10:51:31SlasheriMaybe i will put the updated files to web (sorry, including the all in a patch was too hard to do :D)
10:51:42Slasheriand after that i have to go to work :)
10:52:56LinusNSlasheri: good
11:00
11:11:34*Bagder builds rockbox with ccache
11:11:39Bagderfaaaast ;-)
11:11:45 Join bobTHC [0] (~foo@l06m-18-194.d1.club-internet.fr)
11:14:16LinusNBagder: c00l
11:14:48Bagdersimply setting 'ccache m68k-elf-gcc' in the root Makefile works fine
11:17:35***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
11:19:25preglowpretty neat app, that ccache
11:19:42Bagderyes, it "just works"
11:20:04BagderI had forgotten I used it for my plain gcc ;-)
11:21:37 Join ted2005 [0] (ted@74pc225.sshunet.nl)
11:21:41ashridahwouldn't a properly written makefile do the same job?
11:34:29 Join XShocK [0] (~XShocK@pcp09492659pcs.nrockv01.md.comcast.net)
11:36:44HClsup?
11:36:48XShocKhi
11:36:56 Join markun [0] (~markun@bastards.student.utwente.nl)
11:37:17markunI've just been listening to weezer using rockbox!
11:37:28bobTHC:))
11:40:03 Join textchimp [0] (~chimp@ip67.net66.ipnetworks.net.au)
11:41:17textchimpi wonder, could the iriver ihp 1x0 recharge from USB like the 3x0 can, or is it a hardware limitation?
11:41:34ashridahtextchimp: it's been done with third party mods to the cable.
11:41:59markunLoading the files to the filebuffer seems a bit slow (slower than the iriver firmware). Is that because we don't use dma?
11:42:40ashridahdid someone check sound-playing code into rockbox without me noticing?
11:43:02 Quit ted2005 (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
11:43:11markunI just downloaded the code from slasheri's site.
11:43:28ashridahwhich is where?
11:43:45textchimpso it's the cable rather than the player itself?
11:43:47ashridahnevermind,
11:43:51ashridahfound it
11:44:00textchimptell me where it is then
11:44:08markunhttp://ihme.org/~miipekk/rockbox/
11:44:10textchimpis it working with changing songs without rebooting?
11:44:12ashridahtextchimp: yeah, people just split out the power cable and graft a plug onto the end
11:44:59ashridahtextchimp: misticriver.net probably has some examples floating around
11:45:17textchimpashridah: the 3x0 seems to recharge from what looks like a normal USB cable, which comes with it
11:45:58ashridahthe 3xx hardware has different wiring on the inside
11:46:07textchimpthat's what i was wondering about
11:46:14ashridahas i say, people have done it with the 1xx by grafting a plug onto a standard usb cable
11:46:30ashridahone could probably do it by doing the mod on the inside
11:46:43textchimpwhat do i need to do to get this sound playing code to work? do i need to have the entire CVS head downloaded first?
11:46:44ashridahbut that restricts you to charging and having it on at the same time
11:47:02*ashridah hands textchimp the sacrifical goat
11:47:52 Join leftright [0] (~5087ebda@labb.contactor.se)
11:49:03leftrightI dont think that using a hacked usb to power chord is a good idea
11:49:55ashridahleftright: it's been done before. of course, using your pc to do it may well be harmful
11:50:05ashridahbut from a powered usb hub it probably would work
11:50:08leftrightit could exceed the max amperage that the host usb ports amperage
11:50:47ashridahleftright: yes. some systems have trouble with that. and of course, if the hardware's written properly, the current should get clamped.
11:50:56ashridahs/written/designed/
11:51:00ashridahof course, that depends on the drivers too
11:51:27ashridahi'm yet to run into a situation where the battery life hasn't lasted long enough yet
11:52:07leftrightsame here
11:52:27leftrightI suppose for folks that travel with notebooks its handy
11:52:37leftrightone less item to lug around
11:53:57ashridahwouldn't be that hard to build a mod for the power supply to split off extra chargers for things like phones/mp3 players.
11:54:28ashridahof course, you'd want to take care not to confuse the nokia one with the iriver one :)
11:55:15leftrightthats a great idea, I'm going to spice the DC chords to my notebooks power supply
11:55:36leftrightsplice
11:56:06ashridahi'd be incliend to actually make yourself a small breakout box
11:56:30ashridahof course, that implies that you have some skill with building voltage regulating circuits :)
11:57:15leftrightthe usb power supply is eegant though, just a pity that the H140's hardware doesn't support it
11:57:25leftrightelegant
11:57:45ashridahso sell it and get a 3xx :)
11:57:51leftrightnah
11:57:56textchimpwhat do i need to do to get this sound playing code to work? do i need to have the entire CVS head downloaded first?
11:58:58ashridahtextchimp: gotta patch and copy stuff into appropriate places.
12:00
12:00:28 Quit XShocK (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- 100,000+ downloads can't be wrong")
12:01:05textchimpashridah: do i need the latest cvs version or can i do it to the latest release?
12:01:56ashridahit might work on a daily
12:02:03preglowusb current is very, very seldomly limited by the drivers
12:02:06ashridahpatch is usually fairly forgiving.
12:02:20ashridahand not much has changed in the last day or two
12:02:38preglowhell, i can use my usb midi keyboard without even having my computer switched on
12:02:58dwihnopreglow: usb midi keyboard? what kind of thingie?
12:03:38preglowwhat about it?
12:03:53preglowit's a midi keyboard, just with an usb option
12:03:53preglowheh
12:04:07textchimpso i should just grab the latest rockbox-devel from cvs?
12:04:17leftrightwhat do you reckon are the amperage parameters for notebooks ?
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12:05:35ashridahthat depends on the laptop
12:05:52leftrightthought it was standardised
12:06:09ashridahhow could it be standardized?
12:06:26preglowBagder: do you use ccache for the dailies?
12:06:30leftrightsome IEEE spec for mobo's ?
12:06:30ashridahevery laptop's going to use a different amount of current than another
12:07:12leftrightsorry I'm ferering to usb ports specifically
12:08:05ashridahoh. it's generally considered 500mA (per port, iirc)
12:08:09pregloweach usb port can give around 500ma
12:08:13preglowbut it's usually much more
12:08:18preglowsince there's no current limiter per port
12:09:08preglowper default the current limit is much lower, and each device has to confer with the usb driver to use more power, but i've never seen that actually implemented
12:09:19leftrightno protection circuits ?
12:09:29Bagderpreglow: no I don't
12:09:43preglowthere probably is a protection circuit, but it's for the entire usb controller
12:10:06ashridahi'
12:10:09ashridaharhjl
12:10:29ashridahi've managed to setup a ground loop with my pc and my printer once that shut down one of my usb ports as i was plugging it in
12:10:38preglowBagder: any plans to?
12:10:44ashridahheh
12:11:02BagderI hadn't considered it, but yes, it would speed up recompiles considerably
12:11:12leftrightah, its the specs for that usb controller that I'm after
12:11:19leftrighttime to google
12:12:06preglowBagder: yeah, and if i don't remember incorrectly, build times are starting to get pretty high
12:12:19Bagderyes
12:12:36BagderI'll just work out how configure should act to detect and enable ccache
12:12:53markunDoes anyone remember why read() doesn't use dma?
12:13:23preglowBagder: wouldn't a simple flag suffice?
12:13:29 Join MoosCamaro [0] (MoosCamaro@m214.net81-66-158.noos.fr)
12:13:31Bagderprobably
12:13:40MoosCamaroHi all
12:14:04preglowi don't think configure scripts should second guess the programmer, ccache shouldn't be mandatory just because it's installed ;)
12:14:10Bagderbut changing anything in the configure sequence means changing lots of other scripts that use that
12:14:38BagderI think a command line option is good enough
12:15:51preglowshould be just fine
12:20:30preglowhmmm
12:21:37preglowccache works equally well with heavily #defined source?
12:22:02Bagderyes
12:22:10preglowthen all is well
12:22:21HClwhat is ccache?
12:22:31preglowsystem that caches compiler results
12:22:39preglowand doesn't recompile if it doesn't have to
12:22:43HClaha
12:22:49pregloweven after make clean
12:23:01preglowthat is, especially after make clean ;)
12:23:09HCl :p
12:23:22*HCl only just woke up.
12:24:29 Quit DMJC ("Leaving")
12:25:36 Part leftright
12:26:44MoosCamaroGood day HCl :)
12:27:00HClhi :)
12:27:25HClwhat bugs are left in the mp3/ogg playing code?
12:27:43*preglow produlates slasheri
12:31:18preglowman, ccache sat poorly with scons
12:31:57Nibblerrockbox plays ogg?!
12:32:06preglowNibbler: well, unofficially
12:32:39Nibbleri only heared "playing ogg is technically impossible on archos"
12:32:47preglowiriver
12:32:49preglownot archos
12:32:52Nibblerah ok then :(
12:33:03preglowthe old archos players will never play vorbis
12:33:13 Join mrlala [0] (~mistame@cpe-66-75-129-164.san.res.rr.com)
12:33:22preglowfor several reasons
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12:37:55Tomas|laptophi
12:38:11 Nick Tomas|laptop is now known as t0mas|lt (~tomas@ip503c08d1.speed.planet.nl)
12:39:28MoosCamaroHi
12:40:24MoosCamaroit's european referundum today in Netherlands, HCl, t0mas.... go vote
12:43:36 Join asdsd____ [0] (~asdsd@h-67-100-28-228.miatflad.dynamic.covad.net)
12:47:01HClyea.
12:47:03HCli will
12:49:04t0mas|ltI'm 17 MoosCamaro
12:49:11t0mas|ltso can't vote yet :)
12:49:28t0mas|ltbut I would vote "yes" to start a new discussion ;)
12:50:01 Join ted2005 [0] (ted@74pc225.sshunet.nl)
12:52:31amiconnpreglow: Properly designed USB controllers do limit the current per port (500 mA). However, many USB controllers aren't designed properly, especially those integarted on mobos
12:53:42 Quit markun ()
12:56:28preglowamiconn: most i've seen aren't
12:57:02MoosCamaroHCl/t0mas: here in France we have vote for NO the last week-end and will probably in Netherlands too this night
12:57:23MoosCamaroamiconn: congratulations for your new precious ;)
12:57:24amiconnpreglow: My highway card is (USB controller for Amiga)
12:58:11amiconnMoosCamaro: tnx
13:00
13:01:38MoosCamarothe API graphical and grayscal will evolve :)
13:01:48preglowamiconn: it's flashed already, i assume? ;)
13:02:39amiconnnope
13:03:16preglowyou want to enjoy the iriver firmware first? :P
13:05:01dwihnohe must catch the digital flow!
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13:09:59preglowooh, he's in for the treat of his life
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13:17:37***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
13:27:10Bagderccache test build in progress
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13:38:08preglowif someone implements the rockbox playback engine in the sim, i'll bloody start using that as my linux audio player
13:38:27t0mas|ltpreglow: never used amarok?
13:38:55Bagderit would be _really_ useful to have the sim using the same codec api
13:39:11Bagderbut I don't hold my breath for that
13:39:21preglowwhy not?
13:39:26 Quit t0mas|lt ("brb")
13:39:27preglowi don't think it's impossible
13:39:33Bagderoh no it isn't
13:40:31preglowahh, kde
13:40:53preglowi don't even think ubuntu has the kde libs needed
13:44:20 Part asdsd____
13:46:27preglowdaily builds looks pretty strange :>
13:46:48Bagderyes ;-)
13:46:55BagderI aborted a build in the middle
13:47:01preglowahh
13:47:01preglowheh
13:47:18HCl :P
13:47:30HCl*yawn*
13:48:21preglowhow the hell do i get the latest diff out of a cvs tree?
13:48:28preglowfor one file, yes
13:48:45Bagdercvs diff -r1.12 -r1.13 filename.c
13:49:06preglowbut that's what i'm doing!
13:49:19preglowahh, file name has to come after
13:49:38Bagdercvs is very sensitive on where the options and order etc
13:57:30ashridahyes. one of CVS's many endearing qualities
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14:00
14:13:36*HCl prods Slasheri
14:14:47ashridahi think he's at work
14:15:27HClk.
14:16:40textchimpwhat do i do to apply this audio patch, i haven
14:16:48textchimphaven't applied a patch in a while
14:17:29 Quit elinenbe (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Get hot chicks here!")
14:25:17 Part ted2005
14:25:29 Join ted2005 [0] (ted@74pc225.sshunet.nl)
14:28:08Bagdertextchimp: http://www.rockbox.org/docs/patch.html
14:29:32textchimpBagder: thanks...not sure if i need the -p option for this patch? http://ihme.org/~miipekk/rockbox/snapshot.diff
14:30:12Bagderuse -p0 if you're standing in the rockbox tree root
14:30:59textchimpokay, got it, thanks!
14:30:59CoCoLUSis that slasheris latest?
14:31:27 Join Mouss [0] (MoosCamaro@m214.net81-66-158.noos.fr)
14:34:11Bagderwell, you need the separate new files too
14:34:17Bagderas the patch is not made to add those
14:34:18preglowwhat people what from h3x0 rockbox is higher framerate video, it seems...
14:34:26textchimpdamn: i got this error: make[1]: *** No rule to make target `playback.c', needed by `/home/texty/build/rockbox/rockbox-daily-20050601/target/apps/dep-apps'. Stop.
14:34:29preglowwant
14:34:43textchimpplayback.c is new.....doesn't the patch tell make what to do with it?
14:34:45Bagdertextchimp: exactly, and then read my last remark ;-)
14:34:48preglowtextchimp: read what bagder said
14:35:04textchimpdoh
14:35:18textchimpi have the files...i need to copy them to the apps dir i guess
14:35:58preglowthey most certainly can't be wherever you want, heh
14:36:16textchimpyes, i see now that i am an eeeeediot
14:36:28textchimpit looks like they have to be where shown in snapshot.diff?
14:36:29Bagderit really is unfortable to have those files separate from the patch
14:38:09Bagderuncomfortable is the word
14:40:19preglowi like "unfortable"
14:40:40preglowhe didn't know how to make the patch contain new files, i thinks
14:41:09 Quit MoosCamaro (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
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14:43:41textchimphmm..
14:43:48textchimpnow i get this error: midi2wav.c:174: error: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type
14:44:23textchimpbut this beforehand: midi2wav.c:47:27: midi/midiutil.c: No such file or directory
14:44:36textchimpit's looking for some midi stuff that isn't there?
14:45:01textchimpi'm using the daily build source
14:45:16LinusNhow do you build it?
14:45:27Bagderaha, I think the midi dir is missing
14:45:32LinusNoops
14:46:12textchimpi don't care about midi right now
14:46:25textchimpin fact, i've never cared about midi less than at this moment
14:46:31textchimpcan i just exclude it from the build?
14:46:41preglowsomebody try porting speex already!
14:46:54Bagdertextchimp: remove the midi2wav.c from apps/plugins/SOURCES
14:47:52textchimpi'll try it
14:48:09BagderSlasheri's code uses bad ifdefs
14:48:50ashridahhe's only been on the case for two weeks or something hasn't he?
14:49:06Bagderheck, he's done a great job in really no time
14:49:47textchimpshouldn't there be a make install target?
14:49:54Bagderno
14:49:59Bagderwhat would that do?
14:50:08Bagderinstall how/where?
14:50:28tvelocityheh /usr/local :PPP
14:50:29textchimpum, okay.... it did make a rockbox.iriver.... i seem to recall using make install somewhere in this build?
14:50:30preglowhe's been on it for under a week
14:50:38textchimpmaybe for the simulator?
14:50:44Bagdertextchimp: there is one for the sim
14:51:05LinusNtextchimp: "make zip"
14:53:24Bagderbuild time is now less than half
14:53:42Bagderfor the cvs table build
14:54:29preglowgoodie
14:55:15dwihnoneato!
14:55:19dwihnothanks to ccache?
14:55:22Bagderyes
14:55:27dwihnocool stuffs!
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14:58:55 Quit ashridah (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer))
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15:00
15:00:28textchimphey, there it is
15:00:30textchimpAUDIO
15:00:55textchimpglorious sound waves
15:00:58textchimpand not just that unholy insect buzzing
15:01:02bobTHC:)
15:01:18textchimpit even fades out when you stop it
15:01:32textchimpthe luxury
15:01:32textchimpthe sheer undeserved luxury of it
15:01:45dwihnoiriver got audio?
15:02:03textchimpit's freakin out if i try to play more than one track
15:02:14textchimpdwihno: in the most experimental yet audible sense
15:02:39bobTHCa clean playback of one song for the moment
15:02:52bobTHCthat's it textchimp ?
15:02:58preglowtextchimp: you need to restart
15:04:02textchimpyeah
15:04:02textchimpi got that
15:04:19textchimpwell well
15:04:33textchimpdid i see some modifications to recorder.c in that diff? does it even record?
15:04:39preglowno
15:05:29textchimpsorry
15:05:32textchimpi'm getting greedy
15:06:06textchimpwell, anyway, that's great
15:06:46textchimpto be liberated from the crapness of Iriver's official and hopelessy half-assed 'updates'
15:06:57bobTHCif that not broke evereything it's a littlebit nifty ;)
15:07:34bobTHCi'm kidding, good work textchimp
15:08:08bobTHCbut seems to need some ajustments
15:08:17LinusN"some" :-)
15:08:17Bagdernooo, its done now
15:08:22Bagderwe can go home
15:08:27Bagder:-)
15:08:57bobTHClol
15:08:59textchimpi didn't do anything bobTHC
15:09:20textchimpi'm a cheerleader
15:09:34MoosCamaroSlasheri's works for a lot :)
15:09:37bobTHCit's a job
15:09:39bobTHC;)
15:09:40MoosCamarofor playback
15:09:53MoosCamaroHi bob ca va?
15:10:07 Join tucoz [0] (~81b1111b@labb.contactor.se)
15:10:33bobTHCwell thx,
15:10:51tucozhi, are there any thoughts on a preferred encoding format when recording on the iriver?
15:10:58*LinusN spots logfdump in CVS
15:11:22tucozor will that also be all encoders that will run in realtime?
15:11:23Bagderjawohl
15:11:31tucozlike the decoders
15:11:46Bagderthere will be multiple encoders
15:11:51tucozahh, great
15:13:36textchimpok, goodnight
15:13:36 Quit textchimp ()
15:13:50 Join thegeek [0] (na@ti521110a080-1186.bb.online.no)
15:14:11tucozis encoding usually a bit more processor demanding than decoding?
15:14:21bobTHCyes
15:14:56Bagdermuch more
15:17:38tucozSo, the first step will be to get the various encoders to compile on iriver, right?
15:17:42***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
15:17:49LinusNyes
15:19:08tucozI haven't found a wiki-page for this, but that will those be placed under apps/encoders or something then? similar to codecs
15:19:19preglowjust making an encoder run realtime will be hard
15:19:24preglowmost encoders also use floating point
15:20:05tucozoh, bummer
15:20:30crwli'd be happy with FLAC (and that should also be quite easy, shouldn't it?)
15:21:43LinusNwavpack
15:22:37bobTHCfor me the recording format is .wav for sound recording (to use it like a DAT)
15:22:59tucozwavpack looks nice
15:23:18preglowthe lossless codecs will probably be the first encoders, yeah
15:23:33preglowno fancy psycho acoustics and already fixed point
15:23:46preglowwith the exception of some flac parts
15:23:47crwlmaybe FLAC and speex would be almost enough for almost any use
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15:24:50bobTHCspeex will be good to use it as voice recording indeed
15:25:25 Join t0mas [0] (~Tomas@ip503c08d1.speed.planet.nl)
15:25:41crwlyes, and FLAC for almost anything else - these are hard disk players anyway :P
15:26:10Bagderwell, people do looong recordings
15:26:27crwlsome do :)
15:26:31Bagderwe've had numerous people doing >24 hours
15:26:39Bagderand then flac is not really suitable
15:27:19Bagderbut let's wait and see what we can do
15:27:22crwlwell, 24 hours is still only less than 10 gigs
15:27:37crwltoo big for fat32, hrm :)
15:27:49Bagderrockbox splits them
15:27:52preglowsplitting up files shouldn't pose a problem
15:27:53LinusNrockbox splits it into several files
15:28:08crwlokey
15:29:31Bagderspeex is a float encoder too
15:30:10bobTHC:/
15:30:11Bagdereven decoder
15:30:25dwihnolooks like there's work on a fixed point implementation
15:31:25Bagderindeed
15:31:38preglowits more or less complete
15:32:39preglowi was going to check, but the site is down
15:32:45 Part LinusN
15:34:20tucozis neuros-audio able to record? In that case, their flac-port might be worth looking at.
15:34:34tucoz..as mentioned on the rockbox-wiki
15:36:51Bagderthe neuros forums are impossible to navigate
15:37:23tucozsay that again, it's impossible to find the source as well
15:37:30Bagderyes
15:37:34Bagderthe source is removed
15:37:37tucozhehe
15:37:47tucozdo you know why?
15:37:49Bagderthey are in trouble with TI since eons
15:37:52tucozoh
15:38:02Bagdersince they released code they were not quite allowed to...
15:38:48tucoztoo bad
15:39:06Bagderwe had a look on it when they first relased it
15:39:18bobTHCno google cache ? ;)
15:39:38Bagderit didn't have anything to offer Rockbox
15:39:48Bagderback then at least
15:40:30tucozwonder why they call it open source firmware still. http://open.neurosaudio.com/
15:40:31dwihnodid it have any cool features?
15:40:43Bagdertucoz: the called it open source YEARS before they released the code too
15:41:24Bagderdwihno: no, most of the cool stuff were made in 3rd party libs, and the code for those was not included
15:42:21*Bagder remembers some not so favourable reviews on the rockbox list...
15:43:34tucozsounds cool, might not be though. It also looks as if the licencing policy for monkey's audio is going nowhere aswell
15:46:24dwihnoBagder: aww... too bad. cool ideas is always neato
15:46:40Bagdercool code at least
15:47:00Bagderwe have more ideas than we can deal with ;-)
15:47:44Bagderhttp://www.rockbox.org/mail/archive/rockbox-archive-2003-09/0491.shtml
15:47:46Bagderthe one
15:48:52preglowso arm4 doesn't have mac opcodes
15:50:19Bagderno idea
15:50:21preglowarm doesn't have div???
15:52:00tucozhehe, a google search for neuros ended up with: open.neurosaudio.com: A Step in the Open Source Direction
15:52:24tucozat least they have made a step
15:53:15preglowat least speex has seperate files for all dsp
15:53:16Bagderyes, they seem to try
15:55:24 Quit MoosCamaro (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
15:56:11preglowloads and loads of places to optimise in libspeex
15:56:15*preglow calls for volunteers
15:57:42*amiconn 's iriver is fully charged now
15:59:20preglow:-)
16:00
16:02:08tucozfunny read that neuros review
16:02:17HClget working on that grayscale lib! :P
16:02:25HClwe want video darnit
16:02:25HCl :P
16:02:35preglowhaha
16:02:47preglowi haven't exactly got high hopes for the h1x0 lcd
16:02:54pregloweverything will be blurred to hell and beyond
16:02:58amiconnHCl: Video doesn't use the grayscale lib on archos; video is pre-rendered
16:03:25HCloh
16:03:26preglowpredithered as well?
16:03:31preglowi take it
16:03:48amiconnYes that's what I mean
16:03:58bobTHCa fixedpoint port of the ARM audio voice encoder/decoder > http://www.koders.com/c/fid01888E322FDDEA4B959BF42CE3C4485FB1853297.aspx
16:04:13amiconnBtw, is it normal that the iriver fw keeps the hd spinning?
16:04:26preglowamiconn: yes
16:04:38amiconnlame...
16:04:47preglowamiconn: you will find it's not the only lame thing
16:04:51Bagderindeed lame
16:04:55bobTHC:)
16:05:07ashridahit has a longer hdd spindown time, and people have bitched in the past about a hdd spin bug or something
16:05:07preglowamiconn: also, if you're playing a track, and exit to the file viewer, then it will spin all the time until you choose another track, no matter how long that takes
16:05:38preglowi don't think iriver uses a threaded os
16:05:51HClmight explain not having gapless
16:06:26preglowoh?
16:06:29HCli don't see what people like so much about starwars
16:06:34HCl*watches episode 3*
16:06:51ashridahi didn't bother seeing episode 3
16:07:01preglowi'll probably see it some day
16:07:02preglowno hurry
16:07:05HClwell, i might as well watch it since i can
16:07:06ashridahepisode 4 kinda spoiled the ending for me ;)
16:07:13HCli haven't seen episode 4
16:07:14HCl :)
16:07:17HClnor 5,6,7
16:07:32bobTHCepisode 7 ?
16:07:36ashridahit'd be hard to see 7
16:07:39HClisn't there a 7? oh :)
16:08:06ashridahwell, unless you count that movie about the ewoks or whatever it was
16:08:10bobTHCthe 4th is in fact "Star Wars"
16:08:44ashridaha new hope
16:08:50 Quit einhirn ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
16:08:55bobTHC:)
16:09:58amiconnBah. I set the language to german (iriver fw), but it still displays english.
16:10:08Lynx_HCl: i hope you watch it in english, the dialogs were even worse in the german translation
16:10:09bobTHCit's normal
16:10:09HClyou probably need to reboot?
16:10:16HClLynx_: lmao. ofcourse.
16:10:25amiconnHCl: I did.
16:10:28HCloh.
16:10:29HClokay
16:10:38crwldoes it actually have other languages than english?
16:10:56crwli thought they all were really only about character set in tags
16:11:01bobTHCwhen Iriver says "German" it's just font support
16:11:10bobTHCyep
16:11:20amiconnThat's really odd...
16:11:54amiconnWhen it says 'language' I'd expect this sets the ui language
16:11:58preglowit doesn't
16:12:07tucozamiconn, now you getting to know why we want rockbox on the iriver
16:12:15tucozyour'e
16:12:30tucozerm, you're
16:12:51HCllmao.
16:12:51HClyea
16:12:56amiconnMeh. I'll flash it in the evening.
16:13:16amiconn..and I need to build the coldfire compiler
16:13:52amiconnRockbox may not have all that fancy graphics stuff, but it's certainly much more user friendly.
16:14:04BagderI totally agree
16:14:15amiconnNot that I care much about that graphics stuff
16:14:46tucozalthough some graphical elements can enhance the usability a bit
16:15:28amiconnYes of course
16:15:54amiconnThe iriver fw ui has quite a number of unnecessary graphics
16:16:13tucozthe file browser is a bit strange
16:16:53Bagdernot to mention the weird bouncy level meters in the playing screen
16:18:05tucozwhat do they actually do? while(song_is_playing) do random calls to various bitmaps
16:18:39crwland the font size...
16:19:21tucozanyway, got to go. bye
16:19:26 Part tucoz
16:19:57 Join ripnetuk [0] (~george@82-70-100-230.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk)
16:20:31bobTHCa fancy graphical UI (like on phone) with "most used" function is a good idea. and the "standard" rockbox UI to have all options for "power users"
16:21:49bobTHCbut that's not really time to "cosmetics" things, i'm agree
16:26:53preglowi wonder why everything looks like crap in gnome when i set it to antialias fonts using the correct monitor pixel order
16:27:56 Join Aditya [0] (~Aditya@pcp09495878pcs.nrockv01.md.comcast.net)
16:30:33amiconnbobTHC: My phones all have textual menus (the cellphone has added icons though), and in fact I prefer it that way
16:30:55bobTHCit's normal ure a power user ;)
16:31:12amiconn...and prefer the menus to be in my native language as well, although I have no problems using English
16:32:06amiconnThe problem with icons is to make them really intuitive.
16:32:12preglowpeople tend to be so bad at translating to norwegian that i prefer using english for most things
16:33:06bobTHCamiconn> i'm totally agree with u but for a part of users, icons, contextual navigation... are more intuitive
16:33:13ripnetuki think a lot of options should be switch-offable, as per the original iriver firmware, where I can say I NEVER was shuffle 1 folder, or shuffle 1 album. Then the options are shuffle all, and shuffle off, which is nice
16:33:21ripnetuknever WANT
16:34:03amiconnMore options for disabling options sounds really odd to me
16:35:02bobTHC:)
16:35:03crwlbeing able to disable some shuffle/repeat modes that show up when you bang the A/B button *is* a good thing
16:35:21amiconnbobTHC: I agree that contextual navigation is a good thing, however I don't agree on the icon stuff
16:35:37 Quit tvelocity ("Leaving")
16:35:42amiconncrwl: It's a question of navigation, not a question of disabling options
16:35:55crwlamiconn, may be
16:37:15amiconnpreglow: With rockbox you have the chance to prettify the norwegian translation yourself ;-)
16:37:16crwlthe iRiver UI doesn't offer a very good way to switch between different shuffle/repeat modes, and that's why being able to disable the unwanted modes is good :)
16:37:44amiconnI wonder what modes that might be
16:38:06amiconn(repeat) off, one track, all tracks
16:38:11amiconn(shuffle) on or off
16:38:13preglowamiconn: i have
16:38:24preglowbut i'm so used to english i never use anything else
16:38:33crwlshuffle album (=directory), shuffle all, repeat album
16:38:50 Join tvelocity [0] (~tony@ipa142.6.tellas.gr)
16:39:18crwli can't remember what does "shuffle one" do, but there's such a setting too :)
16:40:19preglowshuffles one track over and over again!
16:41:00amiconncrwl: Mixing repeat and shuffle modes is bad navigation imho. The mode counts are multiplied...
16:41:13crwlamiconn, come to think of it, it is...
16:41:44crwlOTOH i rarely use any shuffle or repeat mode, so it hasn't bothered me very much
16:41:46ripnetukalso while on the subject, a semi-locked mode where only volume works would rock - im always accedently changing tracks
16:42:03ripnetukof course, mp3 playback would rock more ;-)
16:43:07crwli think i'll try rockbox when slasheri releases something that doesn't need a restart between tracks :P
16:44:20preglowit doesn't need a restart between tracks, it needs a restart each time you press 'stop' :P
16:44:25preglowwhich actually makes it quite useful for me
16:44:31crwlheh
16:45:17amiconnpreglow: Non-working stop button? ;-)
16:45:33preglowhaha, no
16:45:37preglowi tend to listen to entire albums
16:45:50amiconnMe too
16:47:15crwlme too
16:47:26ripnetuki almost always have shuffle all on - in fact thats why i switched to rockbox in the first place when i had archos r20
16:47:45ripnetukapart from in the car - sudden death metal can be dangerous :)
16:47:52bobTHClol
16:48:32bobTHCparticularly just after a sonata ;)
16:48:56ripnetuksystem of a down == best car music
16:49:27bobTHCto be arrested ?
16:51:27crwlhrm. now I need to find out what to do in order to build rockbox for my h120
16:51:37crwli just understood i don't have anything better to do today
16:51:54Bagderhttp://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/DevelopmentGuide
16:52:03crwlis "1.65 U" eu or us version? can't remember which one i have there
16:52:19bobTHCwin32 or linux ?
16:52:27crwllinux
16:52:44bobTHCso RTFM
16:52:47crwlyes. :)
16:54:19crwli take it slasheri's patches are meant to be built against current CVS?
16:54:45Bagderyes
16:57:54amiconnI'll probably add a nice H-140 scan to the wiki, showing the rockbox logo
17:00
17:01:12ripnetukcya guys
17:01:13 Quit ripnetuk ("Leaving")
17:01:46 Quit t0mas ("brb")
17:02:42 Nick Lynx_ is now known as Lynx_awy (HydraIRC@134.95.189.59)
17:08:48 Quit oxygen77 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
17:12:52 Join t0mas|lt [0] (~tomas@ip503c08d1.speed.planet.nl)
17:12:55t0mas|ltlo
17:17:43***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
17:22:22HClIf it stinks, it's chemistry. If it moves, it's biology. If it doesn't work, it's computerscience!
17:22:27 Quit Seed (Nick collision from services.)
17:22:35 Join Seed [0] (ben@l192-117-115-168.broadband.actcom.net.il)
17:22:51bobTHChehe
17:32:50crwl/home/crawlie/rockbox/rockbox/tools/buildzip.pl -r "/home/crawlie/rockbox/rockbox" -DIRIVER_H100 rockbox.iriver
17:32:54crwlcan't open dir fonts at /home/crawlie/rockbox/rockbox/tools/buildzip.pl line 88.
17:32:57crwlhrm?
17:32:57*HCl watches star wars ep 4
17:33:29preglowhave you checked out fonts, then?
17:33:39crwlmaybe I haven't... :P
17:34:28crwlthanks :)
17:36:28preglownp
17:41:35HCli'm bored :/
17:41:42HClhow far has Slasheri 's patch progressed?
17:41:45HClis it stable yet?
17:41:48crwlso how do i play something with slasheri's patch?
17:41:56 Quit ted2005 (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
17:42:17preglowcrwl: just select it
17:42:21preglowHCl: what do you mean by stable?
17:42:22 Nick QT_ is now known as QT (as@area51.users.madwifi)
17:42:27preglowit was stable yesterday
17:42:42HClwell, earlier he had crashes during mp3 playback
17:43:01HClit still has the start stop bug right?
17:43:09preglowyea
17:43:14HClbut thats all?
17:43:18preglowhe had cpu_boost crashes, i blieve
17:43:19crwlpreglow, nothing seems to happen, the hd light just lights up and then comes off
17:43:22preglowi think they've been fixed
17:43:27crwlor did i already cause the start stop bug?
17:43:28preglowcrwl: press up and down a bit
17:43:38preglowcrwl: to see if volume needs adjusting
17:43:48crwlthe screen says the same too
17:43:50Slasherihi
17:44:04Slashericrwl: You need the codecs copied to /iriver/.rockbox/codecs/
17:44:08crwlahhhhh
17:44:12preglowhaha
17:44:15crwlthanks :)
17:44:17Slasheri:)
17:45:20SlasheriI think that the start/stop -bug is a wps problem and i know nothing about wps yet..
17:45:31HClwhat do you mean wps problem?
17:45:32crwlhum, i don't have apps/plugins/*.rock
17:45:34HCldo we have a wps yet?
17:45:40crwli wonder what have i messed up now
17:45:55Slasherianyway, the system will send immediately audio_pause followed by audio_stop when play will be selected second time
17:46:10SlasheriSo the playback system wont refuse to play but system will stop it
17:46:33HClwhat? o.o
17:46:39Slasheri:D
17:46:51Slasherii don't know yet why this happens
17:46:58HClokay
17:47:10SlasheriBut i think that somebody who knows something about wps, should fix it
17:47:52preglowscramble someone who knows something about wps!
17:48:04HClwe have that person
17:48:12*HCl searches for t0mas|lt and holds him up
17:48:14HClsee?
17:48:21HClwe just need to dust it off and get it working
17:48:25HCl :p
17:48:40*preglow gives t0mas|lt a duster
17:48:40*HCl prods the t0mas|lt
17:50:51 Quit Aditya (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer))
17:51:59 Join d2005 [0] (ted@74pc225.sshunet.nl)
17:53:50crwlshould i have apps/codecs/codec.c? it's mentioned in snapshot.diff
17:54:10Slasherinow, you should not have it
17:54:13Slasheri-w
17:54:25SlasheriI just forgot to remove those lines
17:56:40crwlbut why don't I have apps/plugins/codec*.rock after compiling? :)
17:57:37SlasheriHmm, they should be in your build directory somewhere
17:57:47preglowSlasheri: what do you need to do before it'll be commited?
17:57:51SlasheriTry find rockboxroot -name 'codec*.rock'
17:58:09Slasheripreglow: I don't know, nothing big i think :)
17:58:14crwloh, they're under build/apps/plugins/ ... stupid me :)
17:58:20crwldoh.
17:58:25Slasheri:)
17:58:28crwli thought i did use find already
17:58:29preglowgood
17:58:39preglowwith this much new code, there should be a commit soon
17:59:34Slashericurrently i am trying to fix some bugs and investigating gapless mp3 playback
17:59:55SlasheriI think that i will give the wps stuff for someone else to do (who is more familiar with it)
18:00
18:00:30preglowyea
18:00:34preglowt0mas expressed a wish to work on it
18:00:44Slasheriyes, that's great :)
18:02:43*HCl is also waiting for it to be committed
18:02:52HClafter tomas is done, i'm gonna get the runtime database up and running
18:03:05HCland after that, work on rockbeans
18:03:20HCland after that, try to create a better gui with austriancoder
18:03:25HClbusy :x
18:03:56preglowhope i'll have some time to code stuff come july/august
18:04:14Slasheribtw, if some is interested in porting existing codecs to support codec api, it should be quite easy. Just take a look to codecvorbis and codecmpa
18:04:21Slasheri+body
18:04:34preglowif i feel i've a good boy afterwards, i might take on a couple
18:04:57preglowbeen a good boy, even
18:05:00preglowbut i'll just idle a bit now
18:17:40 Join t0mas [0] (~Tomas@ip503c08d1.speed.planet.nl)
18:17:55 Quit HCl ("Lost terminal")
18:18:48 Join HCl [0] (hcl@titania.student.utwente.nl)
18:19:03HClt0mas: get working on wps! :p
18:19:24t0maswhat? is there a patch?
18:19:41crwlcan't i currently enter the filebrowser while playing?
18:21:58t0masHCl: is there a patch?
18:22:01HClyes
18:22:02HClthere is
18:22:04t0maswhere?
18:22:10HClbut i just crashed and don't remember where
18:22:13*HCl pokes preglow
18:22:15t0masI was sort of busy... as in girlfriend here...
18:22:20HClmm..
18:22:27t0masand she's cooking now... so I have 10 minutes ;)
18:23:03Chamoishttp://ihme.org/~miipekk/rockbox/
18:23:07Chamoishere
18:24:19t0mask
18:24:56t0mashm... I need the new bootloader for that right?
18:25:06t0mas(maybe that's HCl's problem too?)
18:25:16Chamoishmm
18:25:20Chamoismaybe
18:25:42HClwha?
18:25:46HClnew bootloader
18:25:46HCl?
18:25:48Chamoisbecause of the 16 mb RAM mirroring ?
18:25:51HCloh
18:25:52HClright
18:26:12t0masyes Chamois that's what I thought
18:26:14HClgod
18:26:17HClmy laptop is pathetic
18:26:17t0masbut maybe it's just bs ;)
18:26:20HCl2800+
18:26:24HCland it can't even play an xvid properly.
18:26:32t0mashmz... sounds like windows? :P
18:26:35HClyea.
18:26:41t0masand a lot of spyware?
18:26:41HCli can't get wireless to work in linux.
18:26:46HClno
18:26:50t0maswhat card?
18:27:00HClinternal, broadcom.
18:27:02HClthe card works.
18:27:05HCl802.1x does not.
18:27:22HCland i don't have non-802.1x networks.
18:27:48t0masthat's wpa right?
18:27:54HClno
18:27:56HClbut like it.
18:28:13 Join TCK [0] (TCK@81-86-101-250.dsl.pipex.com)
18:28:17t0mastried ndiswrapper?
18:28:22t0masand wpa_supplicant?
18:28:33t0masI have those on my laptop... and it just works there...
18:33:13HClyes
18:33:15HClboth
18:33:19HClwpa supplicant failed
18:33:32HCland there are absolutely no howtos on how to set it up
18:33:38HClthe few docs that i did find did not work
18:33:45HClndiswrapper works, the rest doesn't.
18:34:06t0masthen retry wpa_supplicant...
18:34:08t0masit works here
18:34:18HCli don't see why i should retry it unless i want to frustrate myself even more
18:34:28HClnothing has changed to wpa supplicant, nothing has changed of our network
18:34:32HClthere is no new documentation.
18:34:41HCli won't have any better chance at getting it to work than before
18:35:04t0maswell... you can try some different options...
18:35:17HCli tried everything, the errors i got were never documented
18:35:24HClthen i got too frustrated and gave up.
18:35:45t0mashttp://tldp.org/HOWTO/html_single/8021X-HOWTO/
18:36:00HClhmm, thats new :)
18:36:24t0masthat's not what you need
18:36:31t0masjust read it... it's about PEAP
18:36:33HCli thought so o.o
18:36:40HCli need eap-ttls
18:36:46HCltunneled pap
18:36:53t0mashttp://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=25891
18:37:02HCli use debian/ubuntu
18:37:19t0maswpa supplicant is the same in FC3 as in debian
18:37:52 Quit bobTHC ("Smoke Weed Every Day !")
18:38:48t0masEAP-TTLS/PAP
18:38:54t0masis what you needed right?
18:40:13HClyea
18:40:37HClwell, wireless broke just a while ago anyways, i wouldn't be able to connect :/
18:41:33t0mashm... for when it works again: http://hostap.epitest.fi/wpa_supplicant/wpa_gui.html
18:41:39t0masa graphical tool to do it :)
18:41:41HClnice
18:41:43HCl :)
18:41:45HCli'll try that, thanks
18:41:56HCli'm starting to find reasons to switch to linux
18:42:22t0masyes... and the dutch tax idiots now have a web form...
18:42:35t0masso you don't have to install their 16 bit windows 3.11 app anymore :P
18:42:51HClhehe..
18:45:20 Quit ashridah ("Leaving")
18:45:50preglowt0mas: new bootloader is done in a minute anyway
18:46:11t0masis there a precompiled bin already?
18:46:37pregloweverything you need is in the wiki IriverBoot page
18:46:57CoCoLUSi tried ubuntu today
18:47:54CoCoLUStook me 15 minuten alone to get alsa working (damn thing wouldn't use the second soundcard)
18:48:46CoCoLUSi really don't understand how someone could use esd instead of alsa per default...
18:50:12HClthe fwpatcher really is minimal, isn't it.
18:50:22HClif it says success, can i assume the h120.hex is okay?
18:50:29rasherYes.
18:50:33HClokay
18:50:40rasherof course, you can also md5sum it yourself
18:50:43HClmhm..
18:50:46HClwindows though.
18:50:56HClit'd be nice if the fwpatcher mentioned the md5sum
18:51:13CoCoLUSrasher, you coded the fwpatcher?
18:51:52CoCoLUSjust wanted to say thanks, its quite a timesaver
18:52:05*HCl goes to flash
18:52:08preglowHCl: you should of course assume the firmware is ok
18:53:02preglowa window saying "this firmware is Verified To Be Ok(tm)" sounds kind of silly to me
18:53:18preglowCoCoLUS: i coded it
18:53:21HClflashing..
18:54:14HClthat didn't take as long as last time, it feels..
18:54:15CoCoLUSoh
18:54:15CoCoLUSwell
18:54:19CoCoLUSthanks preglow ;)
18:54:27preglowsave your thanks, send money!
18:54:29preglow:P
18:54:33HCl :P
18:54:38*HCl pokes t0mas
18:54:52t0mashm?
18:54:57HClwork on wps :p
18:55:10CoCoLUSi'll send you an iriver employee paid to do anything you want him to ;)
18:55:11HClwe can have rockbox running really quickly now o.o
18:55:51*t0mas points a few lines up...
18:55:57t0masgf here... and time for dinner now :)
18:56:11t0masand I'm really busy the next 2 weeks...
18:56:16HCl :/
18:56:24t0mashave to finish a lot of things before my vacation starts
18:56:27preglowboulderdash!
18:56:40t0mas?
18:56:52preglowyou've watched too little futurama
18:56:58HClyesh!
18:56:59HCl :)
18:57:03HClfuturama rocks
18:57:07preglowaye
18:57:07HCltoo bad they quit :/
18:57:12preglowagain, aye
18:57:18preglowbut that's the way good series go
18:57:24HClmmm...
18:57:32HCl*wonders about the new simpsons*
18:57:40preglowsimpsons have grown stale and boring
18:57:41HClgod i hate not having wireless.
18:57:44HClyea.
18:57:48HClbut better than nothing
18:57:57preglowwell, i just gave up watching it
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18:58:03preglowshould be about time for a new family guy soon, though
18:59:32HClargh.
18:59:44*HCl again accidentally tries to use wireless when he cant
18:59:56HCltomorrow, first thing in the morning, i'll buy utp cables :/ :/
19:00
19:04:31SlasheriHmm, i can find song length from mp3entry struct but is there somewhere a frame length also?
19:04:54SlasheriMaybe i have to calculate that on fly..
19:05:31 Quit TCK (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
19:05:45HCli thought lame also had the amount of zeroes in the last frame
19:05:47*HCl prods preglow
19:06:46preglowhmm?
19:06:52HClknow anything about that?
19:06:54preglowframe length is constant?
19:08:01preglowi'm fairly certain it is
19:08:08preglowbrb
19:09:49preglowforget it
19:09:59preglowi keep thinking 'window'
19:10:20preglowframe size is put in each frame header, no?
19:10:50preglowwhy do you need frame length, btw?
19:11:33SlasheriI am not sure, it might be useful to use with song length to cut the last bytes out from the stream
19:12:00SlasheriBut hmm.. It should work with pcm data so maybe it's not very useful :)
19:13:34SlasheriPerhaps first_frame_offset is more useful
19:13:39SlasheriI will try that at first
19:14:19preglowhow do you know libmad is giving you the last frame, btw?
19:14:30SlasheriI dont :)
19:14:35preglowhow nice
19:14:46SlasheriBut that can be calculated
19:14:57preglowwell, i believe all you need to do is shave the first frame and the last frame by the padding amounts
19:15:07preglowby the latency and padding amount
19:15:36SlasheriHmm, yep. I will try figure out more from mpeg.c
19:16:13preglowsamples per frame differs with sample rate as well, btw
19:16:48Slasheriok. Maybe it's best to calculate the real sample count
19:17:45***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
19:19:26amiconnmp3 frames have a fixed playtime (depending on sample frequency), but not a fixed length
19:20:05amiconnpreglow: Samples per frame is constant for the same mpeg version
19:22:21preglowof course
19:22:35preglowhaving that dependent on sample rate would risk not having constant length frames
19:27:07*HCl waits for Slasheri's patch to get committed..
19:27:24HClstar wars is boring :/
19:33:41preglowwell, no shit
19:47:22Slasheridoes anybody have any short mp3s that are gapless for sure?
19:48:56crwlare there that kind of mp3's?
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19:49:22preglowSlasheri: i can get you gapless mp3s, methinks
19:49:26preglowdunno about short, though
19:49:42jochengood evening everybody
19:49:48Slasheripreglow: great. I also have something but i am not sure if they are encodec right way so they really are gapless
19:49:58preglowdo you have foobar?
19:50:20Slasherihmm, i no :)
19:50:32preglowwell, if you download foobar2000, that can tell you if it's gapless
19:50:32Slasheri-i
19:50:46Slasheriah, thanks :)
19:51:01preglowjust open the file, right click on it and choose properties
19:51:03SlasheriHmm, is that software for linux or windows only?
19:51:08preglowwindows only :/
19:51:09Slasheriso it's windows app.. :/
19:51:20preglowill see about getting you some gapless mp3s
19:51:36preglowif i can find them, i'm in linux myself
19:51:38SlasheriBut i can reboot windows on other machine, just a moment
19:51:41preglowahh
19:51:42Slasheri:)
19:52:31jochenum, i don't want to disturb you, but i can't make the codec*.rock work
19:52:59preglowi suggest you wait until it's in cvs
19:53:21Slasherithat's true..
19:53:36preglowwe can't spend time supporting unofficial patches
19:53:41Slasherijochen: have you copied the codecvorbis.rock and codecmpa.rock to .rockbox/codecs/ ?
19:53:48preglowand the coder himself spends the time better coding ;)
19:53:53jochenSlasheri, yeah, i did.
19:53:54Slasheri:)
19:54:03SlasheriHmm, what was the problem?
19:54:26jochenwell, i just don't get any sound. but well, ok, i'm just gonna wait.
19:54:36Slasheriyou have to touch the volume key
19:54:43preglowjochen: shouldn't be too long before the code is official anyway
19:54:53jochenSlasheri, i did
19:55:15Slasherijochen: Hmm.. Did it fill the buffer loading a bunch of songs from disk?
19:55:56jochenSlasheri, don't think so as the hard drive isn't really doing something as i select a song
19:56:16Slasherijochen: I think you haven't updated rockbox.iriver
19:56:29SlasheriThat should go to your iriver root folder
19:56:44jochenSlasheri, you may call me dumb from now... ;-)
19:56:49Slasheri;D
19:56:55jocheni'm sorry for wasting your time.
19:57:01preglowhehe
19:57:17jochenthanks for your help and go on coding. ;-D
19:57:22Slasheri:)
20:00
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20:10:16preglowbut yeah
20:10:39preglowproperites window in foobar2000 should say something like mp3_accurate_length = 1 to the right
20:10:42preglowif it's gapless
20:11:20thegeekhmm
20:11:25thegeekdoes rockbox support replaygain?
20:11:30preglownot yet
20:11:39preglowmp3s dont need player support for replaygain
20:11:46preglowthey're modified
20:11:52crwlthey do if you want both album and track gain
20:12:00preglowsure
20:12:00crwlor precision better than 1,5 dB
20:12:06preglow0.5, afaik
20:12:17crwli thought it was 1.5, but i'm not certain
20:12:20thegeekwhat do you mean they dont need it?
20:12:22preglowme neither ;)
20:12:23crwlheh
20:12:30preglowthegeek: the gain in the track is altered
20:12:38preglowthegeek: so all mp3 players can handle it
20:12:39thegeekit is?
20:12:40thegeekoh
20:12:42preglowyes
20:12:45preglowbut that's just track gain
20:12:46thegeekah
20:12:49preglowlike crwl says
20:12:50thegeekyes
20:12:58thegeekI have mixed format albums;)
20:13:07preglowhow nice :P
20:13:08thegeekand only use album-replaygain
20:13:14thegeekhhumhum
20:13:26crwlit can be just album gain too, whichever you decide
20:14:29preglowwell, yeah
20:14:47preglowanywho
20:14:51preglowproper replaygain is better
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20:18:51thegeekproper?
20:18:54thegeekwow
20:18:56thegeekI'm confused
20:19:00thegeekand I feel like a noob
20:19:05thegeeksuddenly I don't like replaygain
20:19:08thegeek;p
20:19:48crwlproper replaygain where you save the necessary data somewhere else, usually in a tag
20:20:04thegeekah
20:20:05thegeekyes
20:20:10thegeekthat's what I'm using I guess
20:20:15thegeekwith foobar
20:21:38Slasheripreglow: Hmm. If i enabled gapless from dsp settings, the foobar gives gapless output
20:21:54SlasheriBut i was unable to find the mp3_accurate_length parameter
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20:35:18preglowSlasheri: you shouldn't have to enable it
20:36:14preglowbut i can send you a couple of tracks that are supposed to be gapless if you want
20:36:17preglowjust need to find
20:36:37Slasheripreglow: Hmm, it's not gapless unless i enable it :/
20:37:24Slasheriwill sound exactly same as on iriver without the gapless option
20:37:44preglowthen the mp3s aren't gapless
20:37:48Slasheri:/
20:37:53preglowbut gimme a sec
20:37:57Slasheri:)
20:38:03preglowall i've got are bloody .ogg files, heh
20:38:10Slasherihehe :D
20:38:14amiconnHmpf, it seems I am unable to build coldfire gcc :(
20:38:19preglowamiconn: why?
20:38:51amiconnI get that dreaded fmovem operand mismatch error, and the patch doesn't work for gcc 3.4.4
20:39:05amiconn(disabling all multilibs but m5200)
20:39:25amiconnThe Makefile seems to be completely rewritten compared to gcc 3.4.3
20:40:39Stryke`preglow: most of my files are recent lame encodes and gapless
20:41:04preglowStryke`: i just got him a couple, let's see if there are any problems with those
20:41:08Stryke`ok
20:41:51preglowfmovem, of all things
20:42:01preglowwell
20:42:05preglowi gave up trying to make it work in cygwin
20:42:58HClanything new?
20:43:05HClaside from my wlan working again, yay.
20:49:02 Quit jochen ("Verlassend")
20:49:32*HCl prods people
20:49:53HClguess not..
20:51:03preglowhaha
20:56:17amiconnI found something... let's see whether this will work
20:57:20SlasheriHmm, now iriver was almost gapless with that same song =)
21:00
21:02:23preglowSlasheri: foobar reports mp3_accurate_blahblah for those, yes?
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21:15:31t0masHCl? is this plugin from plugin calling working already?
21:17:47amiconnThe iriver backlight is mouted on the right side of the lcd only?
21:17:47amiconn*mounted
21:17:47preglowlooks like it
21:17:47preglowscreen is fairly evenly lit, though
21:17:48***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21:18:31amiconnIt seems there are more buttons on the remote than on the main unit
21:18:41preglowthere are indeed
21:18:49preglowit's a pretty nice remote
21:19:05HClt0mas: no
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21:19:29HClo_O
21:19:36HClnetsplit o.o;
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21:22:43HClo.o
21:22:43HClanyways.
21:22:49HClwhat'd i miss
21:23:07crwlhehe
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21:25:12NJoindwihno [0] (~dw@81.8.224.89)
21:25:29CtcpVersion from freenode-connect!freenode@connect.utility.freenode
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21:25:50 Quit TCK (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:26:18 Quit d2005 ()
21:26:31 Join d2005 [0] (ted@74pc225.sshunet.nl)
21:27:00 Join thegeek [0] (na@ti521110a080-1186.bb.online.no)
21:32:28amiconnYay, finally! m68k-elf-gcc 3.4.4 up and running
21:35:04pregloww000t
21:35:12preglowso, what'll you be starting out on? ;)
21:36:06 Quit t0mas ("brb")
21:38:05amiconnI'm going to flash now...
21:40:19amiconnRockbox is there... :-))
21:41:20t0mas|lt:)
21:41:38 Join t0mas [0] (~Tomas@ip503c08d1.speed.planet.nl)
21:42:38t0masI'm back :)
21:42:55preglowwill making the wps work constitute much work?
21:43:08t0masnot sure
21:43:15t0masfirst have to find where to add the functions
21:46:59HClyay.
21:52:54 Join ehntoo [0] (~noclue2@24-177-161-77.dhcp.mrqt.mi.charter.com)
21:59:07amiconnThe iriver scrolling method is strange...
21:59:28preglowwhat scrolling method?
21:59:40preglowit doesn't scroll
21:59:47amiconnhaha, yes
22:00
22:04:05amiconnWhatever you may call what it does, it looks odd...
22:09:15 Quit Slasheri (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:09:52HClugh.
22:12:21 Join Dave99 [0] (~Dave@81-86-115-62.dsl.pipex.com)
22:13:23Dave99hello?
22:13:28preglowhi?
22:13:37bipak_:>
22:13:57Dave99could anyone give me a bit of help getting rockbox to build?
22:15:08preglowwhat's wrong?
22:15:35Dave99well, I am doing this for the first time so maybe I have missed something
22:15:49Dave99I have installed cygwin environment
22:15:56Dave99got the src from cvs
22:16:14Dave99it compiles loads of c files
22:16:44Dave99then fails CONVBDF
22:16:44Dave99make[1]: /home/David/rockbox/tools/convbdf: Command not found
22:16:44Dave99make[1]: *** [/home/David/rockbox/build/firmware/sysfont.o] Error 127
22:16:44DBUGEnqueued KICK Dave99
22:16:44Dave99make: *** [all] Error 2
22:17:05preglowgo to tools directory
22:17:07preglowtype 'make'
22:17:11preglowthen continue as you were
22:17:27preglowBagder: why doesn't that happen automatically anyway?
22:17:38amiconnIt once did...
22:17:42preglowi know
22:17:44preglowi never had to do that
22:17:55Dave99thats looking better - cheers!
22:18:06Dave99give me visual studio ;o)
22:18:09preglowheh
22:19:39CoCoLUSor at least eclipse :)
22:19:51Dave99got a lot further, does this mean anything to you
22:19:51Dave99(dumb) CC src/it/itload.c
22:19:52Dave99(dumb) CC src/it/itread.c
22:19:52Dave99src/it/itread.c: In function `it_load_sigdata':
22:19:52***Alert Mode level 1
22:19:52Dave99src/it/itread.c:1161: error: insn does not satisfy its constraints:
22:19:53***Alert Mode level 2
22:19:53Dave99(insn 2275 1148 1149 77 0x0 (set (reg:QI 8 %a0)
22:19:53***Alert Mode level 3
22:19:53Dave99 (mem/s/j:QI (plus:SI (reg/f:SI 8 %a0 [354])
22:19:55Dave99 (const_int -288 [0xfffffee0])) [0 mididata S1 A8])) 37 {*m68k.md
22:19:57Dave99:1060} (nil)
22:19:59Dave99 (nil))
22:20:01Dave99src/it/itread.c:1161: internal compiler error: in reload_cse_simplify_operands,
22:20:14Dave99at reload1.c:8378
22:20:14Dave99Please submit a full bug report,
22:20:14Dave99with preprocessed source if appropriate.
22:20:14***Alert Mode level 4
22:20:14Dave99See <URL:http://gcc.gnu.org/bugs.html> for instructions.
22:20:15***Alert Mode level 5
22:20:15Dave99make[4]: *** [/home/David/rockbox/build/apps/codecs/dumb/itread.o] Error 1
22:20:15***Alert Mode level 6
22:20:15Dave99make[3]: *** [all] Error 2
22:20:16***Alert Mode level 7
22:20:16Dave99make[2]: *** [dumb] Error 2
22:20:18Dave99make[1]: *** [build-codecs] Error 2
22:21:07preglowouch
22:21:11preglowwhat gcc is this?
22:21:33preglowversion, that is
22:21:54Dave993.3.3 by the looks of it
22:22:05preglowi'd advice you get 3.4.x
22:22:08amiconnI'd rather suspect binutils, as it's an asm error..
22:22:13preglowno it's not
22:22:17preglowit's a gcc backend error
22:22:28amiconnAnyway, gcc 3.4 is also recommended for iriver builds
22:22:33preglowyes
22:22:35amiconn3.4.x that is
22:22:41preglowwe've had plenty of compiler errors with 3.3.x
22:22:47amiconnI just built 3.4.4 successfully on cygwin
22:23:01Dave99grrr, I'll give it a go - is it just a matter of rerunning cygwin installer and picking a later version?
22:23:08amiconnNope
22:23:22preglownot unless you're building a sim
22:23:27preglowwhich you're not
22:23:36 Join jochen [0] (~jochen@dsl-082-082-186-014.arcor-ip.net)
22:23:52 Join Slasheri [0] (miipekk@ihme.org)
22:23:57amiconnpreglow: Default cygwin gcc is still 3.3.3 (which is sufficient for the sims btw)
22:23:58preglowSlasheri: how's mp3 coming?
22:24:06preglowamiconn: is that so
22:24:06Dave99ah, fair enough
22:24:13jochengood evening again. ;-)
22:24:17preglowjochen: welcome back
22:24:22jochenthx preglow
22:24:25crwlhow's wps etc. coming? ;)
22:24:30preglowit's not
22:24:34Slasheriargh, network was down few minutes :)
22:24:37Slasheripreglow: almost ready
22:24:46jochenDave99, that's in fact a matter of gcc's version. i've had the same problem.
22:24:46preglowSlasheri: stellar
22:24:57preglowyeah, it's a known problem
22:24:57Slasheri:)
22:25:00preglowi've seen it loads of time
22:25:01preglows
22:25:15jochenSlasheri, you're gonna be my god when it's finished. ;-)
22:25:21Slasheri:D
22:25:28preglowwell, at least you'll have proof your god exists
22:25:43HClhehe.
22:25:51jochenlol
22:25:52 Join einhirn [0] (Miranda@carlsberg.heim2.tu-clausthal.de)
22:25:55HClyea
22:25:55preglowyou can also claim he has granted you gifts without feeling the gnawing doubt in your mind
22:26:01jochengood one. ;-)
22:26:27jochenomg, i've ever known computer scientists are freaks. *gg*
22:26:36Slasheripreglow: indeed :D
22:26:42CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
22:26:42*jochen gets himself another beer
22:26:56*preglow gets... water....
22:27:09amiconnpreglow: huh?
22:27:25jochenpreglow, water? yeah, you're indeed a freak. ;-)
22:27:55preglowamiconn: huh what?
22:28:31amiconnwater... do I remember something incorrectly? ;-)
22:28:39preglowi've fallen on bad times
22:28:50amiconnBah, these gaps are annoying :( (iriver fw)
22:28:57preglowamiconn: no shit
22:29:19jochenbtw, i love the rockbox project, all of its members and i'm really looking forward to help you coding someday. ;-)
22:29:25preglowwe too
22:29:48jochenwhen i've finished my bachelor's thesis...
22:30:17***Alert Mode OFF
22:30:22preglowoh, indeed
22:30:23bipak_how many devs are currently on the iriver rockbox fw?
22:31:20t0masamiconn? the plugin api docs.... can I update those?
22:31:30t0masin there it says: int fprintf(int fd, const char *fmt, ...);
22:31:42t0maswhile it is int fdprintf(int fd, const char *fmt, ...);
22:31:44t0masafaik
22:32:25jochenhey, don't spend any time on docs *lol*
22:33:20thegeekwhat binutils do I want when compiling gcc 3.4.4 for iriver ?
22:33:24t0masBagder in version 1.81: "fprintf() is now fdprintf()"
22:33:45preglowit is
22:33:51preglowthegeek: 2.16
22:33:53thegeekhmm
22:33:54thegeekwierd
22:33:58t0masjochen: it's better to have these kind of things right.. it slows down devving a lot when you have to search for those functions
22:33:58jochenthegeek, i used 2.16
22:33:59amiconnthegeek: 2.16, always
22:34:22jochent0mas, yeah, i know. was ment to be a joke. ;-)
22:34:24thegeekmhm
22:34:38t0mas:)
22:36:24thegeekI had to add the /bin inside the buildenv in order for gcc to find sh-elf-ar ;)
22:36:39thegeeks/add/add it to the path
22:36:48thegeekbah
22:36:49thegeekoh well
22:36:57jochenpardon? *gg*
22:37:03thegeekhehe
22:37:16thegeekI was trying to compile gcc
22:37:34thegeekbut it refused to find sh-elf-ar because the /bin of the prefix path was not in my path
22:38:01thegeekhumhum
22:38:03preglowthegeek: of course you have to add it to the path
22:38:09jochenyeah, that's mentioned in the wiki, isn't it thegeek?
22:38:12thegeek;p
22:38:12t0masor symlink it somewhere...
22:38:13thegeekno
22:38:16thegeekwell
22:38:18preglowit should be
22:38:24preglowand i remember reading it :P
22:38:26thegeekthe wiki says to add the / of the build env path to PATH
22:38:31jocheni'm pretty sure it is
22:38:34thegeekhmm
22:38:37thegeekperhaps I'm blind
22:38:50thegeekoh
22:38:55thegeekindeed I am
22:39:01jochenwell, you're doing quite well on irc, for a blind. *gg*
22:39:02thegeekI missed the ../bin..
22:39:13thegeekperhaps I'm just impaired
22:39:19thegeekcould very well be
22:39:52jochenif i knew that word, i would certainly agree. *lol*
22:40:01ehntooor maybe he's got a very, very good screen reader
22:40:06ehntoounfortunately, they don't exist
22:40:07ehntoo=P
22:40:24thegeekwell
22:40:25thegeekactually
22:40:30thegeekI guess for irc
22:40:36thegeeka screen reader could work quite well
22:40:57jochenyeah, that's it. "could"... *gg*
22:41:02thegeek;p
22:41:02Bagderthey do
22:41:10Bagderwe've had blind people in here before
22:41:14jochenreally?
22:41:20preglowof course
22:41:24Bagderyeps
22:41:29preglowrockbox is the only dap os blind people can use
22:41:33preglowthe only one i know of
22:41:40t0masah Bagder around :)
22:41:46jochenoh, sure, because of the voice functon. i forgot.
22:41:47t0massaw my privmsg?
22:41:50Bagderyes
22:41:56t0masany toughts on it?
22:42:08Bagderyes, if this doesn't work then something is really broken
22:42:12Bagderand my change didn't break it
22:42:19preglowdoes rockbox support ordinary fat fs?
22:42:24preglow8.3, etc
22:42:30jochenbut i find it hard to imagine a blind compiling m68k-elf and so on... *lol*
22:42:34t0masBagder:
22:42:34t0mas rb->lseek(fData, (off_t)readlong(&word.offset), SEEK_SET);
22:42:34t0mas debug = rb->lseek(fData, (off_t)0, SEEK_CUR);
22:42:34DBUGEnqueued KICK t0mas
22:42:34t0mas rb->fdprintf(fDebug, "Offset: %d\n", debug);
22:42:39t0masthere I get 0
22:42:43preglowjochen: there are binary distros, heh
22:43:01jochenpreglow, aah, boring. *gg*
22:43:05t0masand readlong(&word.offset) != 0
22:43:19Bagdert0mas: lseek() takes an off_t as second argument
22:43:36Bagdernot a long
22:43:36t0masyes... and what type is an off_t ?
22:44:06t0masint4 ? or something?
22:45:02thegeekjochen : hehe, imagine a screen reader trying to cope with the output of a make ;)
22:45:15thegeekI'd feel sorry for the person on the receiving end
22:45:21Bagdert0mas: when is this a problem? sim on Linux?
22:45:21thegeek;)
22:45:42jochent0mas, signed long, i think
22:45:43t0masBagder: no, target
22:46:05Bagderthen off_t should be a signed long
22:46:15Bagderfirmware/include/sys/types.h
22:46:26t0masok, can you explain that 0 then?
22:46:28jochenthegeek, well, imagine the output of gcc. *lol*
22:46:32Bagdert0mas: no
22:46:36t0mas:(
22:46:38t0masme neither
22:46:46t0masI'll check the return value...
22:46:51jochenthegeek, and i don't mean the stderr output. *gg*
22:46:58thegeekhehe
22:47:07thegeekgeek humor;)
22:47:20jochenquite. *gg*
22:48:01thegeek;)
22:48:24 Join Shagnar [0] (~tester@p54A0E206.dip.t-dialin.net)
22:49:33CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
22:49:33*jochen still wonders if rockbox will support ext2 one day
22:49:39 Quit TCK- (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:49:56t0masot won't
22:49:58t0mas*it
22:50:00bipak_:<
22:50:01thegeekwould ext2 have any advantage over fat?
22:50:13t0masno... it would only cost memory...
22:50:19t0masno use for ext2 on a dap
22:50:19thegeekmhm
22:50:25ehntoonow, reiserfs would be nice.
22:50:25bipak_and no windows machine would read it :<
22:50:31thegeekwell
22:50:35preglowof course there's a use, you can boot linux from it ;)
22:50:36thegeekthere are ext2 drivers for windows
22:50:41jochenbipak_, i don't care. *gg*
22:50:44preglowthegeek: none of them extremely good
22:50:51thegeek;)
22:51:16jochenwell, i just don't trust vfat very far.
22:51:21bipak_jochen: i exchange files with friends... and most of them have win..
22:51:42thegeekjochen : it's not like it's closed or anything
22:51:56jochenbipak_, well, another argument why thay shouldn't. *g*
22:51:57amiconnbipak_: Then use NTFS perhaps? ;-)
22:52:05jochen-a+e
22:52:21bipak_why that? *confused*
22:52:42ehntooI think you were supposed to take the smiley at the end as a hint of sarcasm
22:52:53jochenhehe
22:53:09jochenme? sarcastic? never. *lol*
22:53:17bipak_:)
22:53:35bipak_germans aren't sarcastic ;))
22:54:08amiconnBah! Wth does the iriver fw not stop at the end of a dir????
22:54:25jocheneer... yes.. err... *g* bipak_
22:54:36Bagderit certainly behaves in mysterious ways
22:54:44ehntooamiconn: hence why I'm waiting for rockbox so anxiously
22:55:34jochenwho doesn't?
22:57:34*jochen hugs everybody because he is so happy that sound starts working on iriver.
22:58:10*bipak_ pushes jochen away
22:58:22jochennarF *gg*
22:58:24bipak_:>
22:58:38HCllol.
22:58:41*preglow refuses to let jochen go
22:58:53jocheneven more narF *loool*
22:59:27ehntoowhoa... when did sound start working?
22:59:31ehntooI must've missed something major.
22:59:36HClweek ago or so
22:59:47jochenwell, not officially. *gg*
23:00
23:00:20jochenbut there was a neat patch released today
23:00:28t0masBagder?
23:00:36t0mas#ifdef ROCKBOX_BIG_ENDIAN
23:00:38t0masin a plugin...
23:00:41t0masdoes that work?
23:00:45Bagderyes
23:00:58Bagderif it includes the proper include
23:01:03Bagderlike config.h
23:01:36t0masok, so that's not included in plugin.h ?
23:01:42amiconnit should
23:01:52Bagderit is
23:01:54Bagderjust checked
23:02:55t0maso
23:02:56t0mask
23:14:22 Quit webguest49 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
23:15:52thegeekhmm
23:16:08thegeekI just compiled rockbox with the soundpatch
23:16:26thegeekdo I just open the mp3 with "open with" and then mpa2wav?
23:16:51jochenno thegeek, just, open them. with ->
23:17:11thegeekwhen I do rockbox freezes
23:17:42jochenthegeek, what do you mean with "freezes"?
23:17:49***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:18:08thegeekI select an mp3
23:18:15thegeekand just press the joystick
23:18:17thegeekit freezes
23:18:36thegeekor
23:18:36thegeekwait
23:18:56jochenand you have compiled it cleanly, make zip, extracted and so on thegeek?
23:18:58t0masthegeek? have you installed the new bootloader?
23:19:14jochenwell - more or less "cleanly"...
23:19:20t0masas that fixes a memory problem... and that mem is needed by the mp3 code
23:19:24thegeekoh
23:19:27thegeekI have not
23:19:28thegeek;)
23:19:35t0masthen that's the problem
23:19:39thegeekyeah
23:20:03jochenthere you go ;-)
23:22:33jochengtg sleeping now, gn8 and gl
23:23:37 Quit jochen ("Verlassend")
23:23:50t0masamiconn: I think i have a bug...
23:24:02t0maswhen I'm in a menu... and i pull out the usb plug
23:24:11t0masthen the rolo display comes up after I exit the menu
23:24:14t0masand not before
23:24:26t0masis that a feature? or by-design? or a bug? :)
23:25:05thegeekbah
23:25:06amiconnThe check for bootfile change is part of the file browser
23:25:12thegeekI can't even extract the firmware
23:25:18thegeekOne or more CON code pages invalid for given keyboard code
23:25:18thegeekProgram too big to fit in memory
23:25:24thegeekannoying
23:25:45thegeektried redownloading 2 different files(eu/us)
23:26:30preglowwhat, the h1x0 firmware?
23:27:34thegeekmhm
23:27:47 Quit d2005 ()
23:27:52preglowfunny
23:27:58thegeekindeed
23:27:59preglowthere are no funny characters in those files
23:28:04preglowtry using winzip or something instead
23:28:21thegeekI already extracted it with winrar;)
23:28:28thegeekbut still
23:28:30thegeekannoying
23:29:59thegeekbtw
23:30:06thegeektip for anyone with a scratched screen
23:30:10thegeekuse toothpaste
23:31:57ehntootoothpaste?
23:32:05ehntooI've heard of using it on cds
23:32:31thegeekworks on almost anything with small scratches
23:32:31ehntoobut on scratched screens? Do you mean lcd's or crt's?
23:32:45thegeekI used it on a magnifying glass (of glass)
23:32:50thegeekand on my axim x50v
23:32:53thegeekand on my iriver h120
23:33:09thegeekremoves small scratches
23:33:24thegeekjust make sure whatever you use does not scratch
23:33:30ehntoogood idea... *writes note on hand to try it on his iriver*
23:33:34ehntooit's rather a mess
23:33:37thegeek;)
23:33:41preglowshould be sure to use those damn whitening toothpastes, then
23:33:43thegeekpeople use it on ipods
23:33:45preglowprobably contains sand
23:33:46 Join Tangleding [0] (~Tangledin@ARennes-252-1-36-197.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr)
23:33:48thegeekand claim it works very good
23:33:55thegeekworked good on my iriver
23:33:56thegeek;)
23:33:59thegeekpreglow
23:34:00thegeekit does
23:34:07preglowyeah, i've heard it myself
23:34:14preglowbut i have no scratched on my h120 or my screen
23:34:26thegeekI only had a few
23:34:29Tangledinghi guys
23:34:30Tangleding:)
23:34:34preglowand the only stuff that's coming anywhere near my spanking new lcd screen is towels of the softest silk
23:34:40thegeekindeed
23:34:46thegeekI'm not even touching my 2005fpw;)
23:34:50thegeekit's supahsmooth
23:34:55Tangledingi've just bought a H140 on eBay
23:34:56Tangleding:)
23:35:01Tangleding300€
23:35:03amiconnsnow.rock @11 MHz is really smooth ;)
23:35:09thegeekhehe
23:35:13Tangledinghi amiconn :)
23:35:14preglowTangleding: what, i thought you had one alraedy
23:35:20preglowamiconn: how do you switch it to 11mhz?=
23:35:24Tangledingi own a H120 in fact
23:35:29amiconnpreglow: debug menu
23:35:31 Quit t0mas ("good night")
23:35:42preglowoh, i can only switch it to 49mhz
23:35:43Tangledingi was interested by a H140 to upgrade my H120
23:35:46preglowahh
23:35:55Tangledingi will own one of the first
23:35:57amiconnpreglow: Press select instead of moving up/down
23:35:58preglowamiconn: forget it
23:36:02preglowamiconn: yeah, found out
23:36:04TangledingH140 champaign in the world
23:36:06Tangledinglol
23:36:15Tangleding(will be sweet)
23:36:29Tangledingwith rockbox in ROM of course
23:36:31Tangleding:D
23:36:39amiconnRockbox produces a bang when starting / shutting down :(
23:36:59ehntooas do many audio devices
23:37:06ehntoothe default fw does too
23:37:07thegeekamiconn : confirmed
23:37:08ehntoojust not as loud
23:37:12thegeekmhm
23:37:15preglowamiconn: i think i heard the radio buzzing in once, actually
23:37:45amiconnehntoo: It's significantly less with the original fw
23:37:57thegeekhmm
23:38:19thegeekwhen I try to play an mp3 (with the patch), I only see an icon blink in the upper right for a second, then nothing..
23:38:20ehntooamiconn, I'm guessing it's because of a different volume level on startup?
23:38:20preglowamiconn: did you catch the snow on the remote as well? :P
23:38:29preglowthegeek: press volume
23:38:37preglowthegeek: that is, up or down
23:38:51thegeekthen I just go up or down
23:38:54thegeekas in
23:38:56thegeekselecting files
23:39:12preglowdid you copy the codecs to /.rockbox/codecs?
23:39:15preglowno? then do so ;)
23:39:17thegeekhmm
23:39:19thegeekI did make zip
23:39:23thegeekI guess not;)
23:39:23preglownot enough
23:39:26thegeekmhm
23:39:28preglowmanual copy
23:39:36*thegeek hides
23:39:38thegeeksorry;)
23:39:38thegeekhehe
23:39:54preglowyes, you better hide, count yourself lucky i don't kick your sorry ass out of here!
23:39:59thegeekhumhum
23:40:32preglowthen it should work
23:42:45thegeekhmm
23:42:52thegeekatleast I get hd access..
23:42:58 Part t0mas|lt ("Leaving")
23:43:11thegeeknot much sound though
23:43:14thegeekeven with 100 volume
23:43:15thegeekbarf
23:43:19preglowno
23:43:20preglow85 is max
23:43:34preglowor perhaps he fixed that
23:43:43thegeekhehe
23:44:00thegeek*retries
23:44:18thegeekeureka
23:44:19preglowand keep in mind you need to restart
23:44:24thegeek100 works
23:44:26preglowafter each time you press stop
23:44:27thegeekhad to restart..
23:44:28thegeek;)
23:44:29thegeekoh
23:44:30DBUGEnqueued KICK thegeek
23:44:30thegeekhaha
23:44:58thegeekhehe
23:44:58thegeeknice
23:45:00thegeekeven fades out
23:47:11preglowquite
23:47:19preglowit's leetness incarnate
23:48:18 Quit tvelocity ("Leaving")
23:50:50thegeek;)
23:51:07 Join xen` [0] (~xen@pla25-1-82-227-196-9.fbx.proxad.net)
23:55:01 Quit Shagnar (Remote closed the connection)
23:55:44TangledingFor the moment iRiver fw is still a litlle bit ergonomic to listen music
23:55:46Tangleding;)
23:56:20preglowpft, now that i have tasted gapless, i will not go back
23:56:29preglowthis i swear
23:56:40 Join MoosCamaro [0] (MoosCamaro@m214.net81-66-158.noos.fr)
23:56:48amiconnpreglow: 100% agreed.
23:57:42amiconnGaps are really annoying
23:57:46preglowoh yes
23:57:56preglowespecially the half-hour long gaps iriver operates with

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