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#rockbox log for 2005-06-14

00:02:18 Quit ashridah ("gone")
00:03:08 Part Moos
00:03:41 Join Rollo_McFlurry [0] (~Ingo1@81-179-73-229.dsl.pipex.com)
00:04:30Rollo_McFlurryhi, can anyone tell me how long it usually takes to upgrade using the modified hex file on a iHP-140?
00:05:25preglowhalf a minute?
00:05:47hubbelRollo_McFlurry: the thing is that it does not poweroff or reboot automaticly
00:06:17Rollo_McFlurryah ok, it's been updating a good 20 mins now and i still have the HD light on.
00:06:19preglowmine does
00:06:26hubbelhum.. i dont remember exactly, but i think one has to press off or reset?
00:06:28preglowmine just powers off when it's done
00:06:32hubbelbut then after the reboot
00:06:51preglowwell, try switching it off
00:06:51hicksMine took about 20-30seconds then turned itself off.
00:06:51hubbelrockbox does some calculation on the FAT
00:07:06hicksJust like when you do a normal firmware update.
00:07:08preglowRollo_McFlurry: so you're still on the flashing screen?
00:07:09yngwimine did also an automatic turn off, exactly like the iriver version
00:07:17Rollo_McFlurryoh dear :)
00:07:31preglowbattery status?
00:07:36hicksMake sure you power is plugged in :P
00:07:39preglowyes
00:07:40preglowexactly
00:07:43Rollo_McFlurryyeah got the power on
00:07:52preglowoh well
00:07:57ehntooRollo_McFlurry, that's not good.
00:08:03preglowif it's still trying to flash, you might as well try to switch it off
00:08:09preglowit's not going to complete now
00:08:16preglowso pray it's not even started flashing
00:08:25preglowif it's still showing the disk light, there's hope yet
00:09:22yngwigood luck
00:09:30Sucka:S
00:09:32Slashericommitted buggy patch. nights :)
00:10:03Rollo_McFlurryi'm charmed, had to hit the reset but it's booted back to original firmware
00:10:15yngwipuhh
00:10:23preglowyeah, i figured that
00:10:31preglowit didn't succeed in reading the image
00:10:39preglowi've never seen that happen before
00:11:53Rollo_McFlurryi'll try again, dont think i did anything wrong though
00:11:59preglowhmm
00:12:08preglowi don't think it'll change much
00:12:09preglowbut sure
00:12:54Rollo_McFlurryworth trying to patch a different firmware version?
00:13:14hicksdid you check the md5sum after patching?
00:13:17 Quit Aison ("( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 3.72 :: www.XLhost.de )")
00:13:38preglowwhat did you use to make the hex file?
00:13:39Suckaidd
00:13:55Rollo_McFlurrythe patcher
00:14:09preglowfwpatcher?
00:14:24preglowshould be fine, then
00:15:25 Quit elinenbe (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- The dawn of a new age")
00:17:05 Join tvelocity [0] (~tony@ipa78.5.tellas.gr)
00:22:09 Join spiralout [0] (~keep_goin@p54B38A36.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
00:23:59Rollo_McFlurryhmm it wont do a non patched hex either, just what sort of calcs does it do before flashing? i'm thinking i might have some errors on the drive
00:24:28preglowthere's no checksum deal
00:24:33preglowsounds like your hard drive is having a bad time
00:24:44preglowif the checksums in the firmware file are wrong, it should tell you so
00:30:50Rollo_McFlurrythanks for the help, got to reboot
00:31:04 Quit Rollo_McFlurry ()
00:32:13 Quit spiralout ("ChatZilla 0.9.68.5 [Firefox 1.0.4/20050511]")
00:35:44 Quit Sucka ("a bird in the bush is worth two in your house")
00:36:20 Join spiralout [0] (~keep_goin@p54B38A36.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
00:36:59spiralouthi:) ...Q: Speechoutput isn´t supported yet for H100 right?
00:37:43hubbelpreglow: i tried the 8.12 stuff now and there's virtually no plops when power-on or off
00:39:20preglowhubbel: excellent!!!
00:39:27preglowhubbel: not even iriver can make it completely silent
00:51:29 Quit tvelocity ("Leaving")
00:51:56 Quit spiralout ("ChatZilla 0.9.68.5 [Firefox 1.0.4/20050511]")
00:57:39DomZ?
00:57:53 Quit DomZ ("CGI:IRC")
00:57:59 Join DomZ [0] (~52426222@labb.contactor.se)
01:00
01:04:25 Quit linuxstb ("Leaving")
01:09:27 Quit yngwi ("Chatzilla 0.9.68a [Firefox 1.0.4/20050511]")
01:09:56 Quit DMJC-L (Connection timed out)
01:13:08HClnice hubbel, can you commit that or does it need more testing?
01:14:40 Quit hardeep (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:15:11 Quit gromit` (Remote closed the connection)
01:15:24 Join MrStaticVoid [0] (~jlee@69-175-94-207.frdrmd.adelphia.net)
01:28:34hubbeli dont have write access to cvs but i give someone a diff
01:28:38hubbel+can
01:38:06***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:40:30markunI'll commit it for you
01:41:17preglowoh, do so
01:41:38markunhubbel: can you give me the patch?
01:42:20hubbelsure
01:45:53 Quit Stryke` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:53:05HClwoops.
01:53:16*HCl totally overestimated the price of something on a game :x
01:53:16 Quit hicks (Client Quit)
01:59:43preglowcommit? :>
02:00
02:00:18markunnot yet
02:00:21markunjust a minute
02:02:45 Join massive_H [0] (~haunman@user-0c6s14v.cable.mindspring.com)
02:03:41preglowait
02:03:56preglowanyone think we'll ever get bigger buffers than 65kb from the codecs?
02:05:57 Quit massive_H (Client Quit)
02:07:30 Join Rori [0] (MO-Pantsu@deadman3000.plus.com)
02:10:05markuncan I use \n with cvs commit -m '... ?
02:10:32HClpreglow: why?
02:14:57preglowthinking about resampling
02:15:29markuncomitted
02:15:37preglowwondering if 16.16 fixed point will do for stepping through the waveform while interpolating
02:15:41preglowmarkun: wonderufl
02:15:44preglowwonderful, even
02:16:01 Quit MO-Pantsu (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
02:17:04markunwith my cheap in-ear-phones the ticks are still quite loud and I hear a hiss when the amp is on, but with my other headphones it's pretty faint.
02:17:42webguest70commited =newer (latest) file in daily downloads ?
02:18:31preglowmarkun: sounds like fm noise, really
02:18:57preglowi still get that
02:19:09preglowbut it's a lot better
02:19:12markunpreglow: how can I test it?
02:19:29preglowthe power off noise is just like iriver firmware now
02:19:41preglowmarkun: dunno, i only occasionally get what i think like fm noise when i start up
02:19:56preglowmostly it's just a low click
02:20:50markunpreglow: no, not only during startup. The hiss is constant, also during playback.
02:21:02markunjust white noise
02:21:07preglownot for me
02:21:15preglowi'm hoping austraincoders commit will fix this
02:21:18preglowif he gets around to it
02:21:28markunI have the same with the iriver firmware
02:21:37preglowhmm
02:21:38preglowstrange
02:21:41preglowi don't have anything like it
02:21:56markunare your headphones vey sensitive?
02:22:16preglowi don't know, really
02:22:32preglowhaven't got much to compare them with anymore
02:23:10preglowi think i can hear a very, very faint hiss sometimes
02:23:17preglowbut it's not something i ordinarily notice
02:24:49markunIf I listen to music I also don't notice it, only when the music stops (or silent parts)
02:26:01hubbeli sometimes get two loud clicks at startup.. most of the time the two clicks are pretty silent
02:27:45preglowanyway
02:27:46preglowi gotta sleep
02:27:47preglowlater
02:27:54 Quit preglow ("leaving")
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02:28:53 Part hubbel
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03:00
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03:38:07***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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04:00
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04:11:53thegeekfor the record, with my 26ohm(very low for headphones) shure e3's there is always a very small hiss
04:12:08thegeekthought I doubt you will find any portable player without it
04:12:28thegeekand when listening to any music it is inaudible
04:12:53thegeekI have to set the volume to 7/8 to really notice it
04:13:17thegeekand when volume is at 2, it is there but it's not bothersome
04:13:32dapureplayahi
04:14:18thegeekI can test tomorrow using the digital out + iriver fw and a very good external non oversampling dac to hear if it is some imperfection in the iriver, or just a little noise
04:14:22thegeekhi dapureplaya
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05:00
05:09:49bill2or3sweet
05:10:03bill2or3won a remote for $17.50
05:38:10***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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06:00
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06:44:40 Join crumb_ [0] (~crumb@ip68-7-83-166.sd.sd.cox.net)
06:45:23crumb_hi
06:45:42crumb_is there any kind of work being done for the iRiver H10
06:46:06crumb_i searched, and i found some information that might be helpful
06:47:53courtcus over at #ipodlinux shunted him this way.
06:48:48crumb_heh
06:52:35crumb_crashd :o
06:52:43crumb_i found your article on misticriver
06:53:54crumb_hmm
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07:38:13***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
07:38:33 Quit DaKi][er ()
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08:00
08:04:42amiconnmorning
08:06:27HClohayo..
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09:00
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09:22:07 Join bobTHC [0] (~bobthc@l03m-40-183.d1.club-internet.fr)
09:23:35bobTHChi folks !
09:28:32 Join StrathAFK [0] (~mike@dgvlwinas01pool0-a219.wi.tds.net)
09:29:07Slasherihi
09:29:17SlasheriHmm, what means: I41: PDIR2FULL ?
09:36:11Bgergrep the source ... :)
09:36:15 Join leftright [0] (~5087fd9e@labb.contactor.se)
09:36:19Slasheri=)
09:36:55Bgermaybe the first question is "what's PDIR2"
09:37:04leftrightwhen starting playback there is still a pop
09:37:13Slasherithat is almost fixed
09:37:16Slasherii will commit soon
09:37:25leftrightthanks
09:38:16***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
09:40:39leftrightwith fade on & stop is pressed, the songs fades correclt but just before zero sound there is a blip in the vol
09:40:58Slasheriyes, that is still a known problem
09:41:12leftright:)
09:41:28 Join gromit` [0] (~gromit`@ras75-5-82-234-244-69.fbx.proxad.net)
09:46:11leftrightwps battery indicator (not tiny icon) does not display correct battery time remaining
09:47:04 Quit Strath (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
09:52:09RoriI hate this. I have a complaint against my telco. But discussing it in a forum I am being shot down on technical grounds over something that is a marketing ploy (DSL speed upgrades).
09:52:57RoriSucks so much when you know it's something that could be done if the telco could be bothered. But it's all about the bottom line.
09:54:18Slashericommitted
09:57:11leftright:)
10:00
10:00:49leftrightthe sequence number is still 20050614
10:01:28B4gderthe sequence number?
10:01:39leftrightof the builds
10:01:50B4gderwhat builds?
10:02:04oddTHE BUILDS, MAN, THE BUILDS
10:02:09leftrightthe daily builds
10:02:11B4gderand it is still the 14th, so why is that wrong?
10:02:49leftrightsorry, I thought that it was a sequential number
10:03:10Slasherimaybe you should use the bleeding edge builds
10:03:17SlasheriI think daily builds updates only once a day
10:03:24B4gderthe daily builds are... eh, daily
10:05:19 Quit Rori ()
10:07:58leftrightdoes the daily build get updated more than once daily ?
10:08:29B4gderno
10:08:47B4gderbut there are bleeding edge builds
10:08:56B4gderthey are packages of the latest possible cvs commit
10:09:16BgerB4gder: " <Slasheri> Hmm, what means: I41: PDIR2FULL"
10:09:35B4gderI don't know
10:14:52B4gderits just the name of the vector 41
10:15:10B4gder41 hex
10:15:13SlasheriHmm, i already solved that :)
10:15:41Slasheri(the problem, not that error message)
10:15:50BgerB4gder where can someone find info about these messages ?
10:16:17B4gderthey are shown by code in firmware/system.c
10:16:21 Join ashridah [0] (ashridah@220-253-122-198.VIC.netspace.net.au)
10:16:52B4gderthe code is call on unexpected irqs
10:16:54B4gdercalled
10:17:05B4gderso it shows the irq number and the associated name
10:17:29Bgerwith the IRQ ?
10:17:44Bgerdefault_interrupt (PDIR2FULL); /* Processor data in 2 full */
10:17:58B4gderyes
10:18:21B4gderand to learn what that is, I guess some coldfire docs reading is required
10:18:26Bgeri've already looked @ system.c ...
10:18:37Bgerbut obviously i've overlooked it ...
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10:29:48 Join Rori [0] (MO-Pantsu@deadman3000.plus.com)
10:30:26*Rori just had hsi adsl speed doubled. But I had to pay for it where others got the upgrade for free based on BT's crappy line quality database
10:50:51 Join markun [0] (~markun@bastards.student.ipv6.utwente.nl)
10:51:44markunSlasheri: Thanks for turning off the amp when not playing.
10:51:57Slasherimarkun :)
10:52:08Slasherimarkun: i found it worked quite well and now it's really silent
10:52:50markunHow did you get rid of the click without playing silent samples?
10:53:48Roriah good
10:53:50SlasheriI enable the audio system after playing has already started :)
10:53:51Rorino more pops?
10:55:09markunI noticed the dc problem was not even solved but turning the player off and back on, but that's not problem now anymore.
10:55:26amiconnI got 2 *loud* pops today, one when powering up and the other when resume kicked in
10:55:44amiconnThat was without Slasheri's 07:54 commit though
10:55:51markunamiconn: It's solved now.
10:55:54amiconn(using line out)
10:55:56 Quit ashridah ("gm's dead, need phone :(")
10:56:24markunamiconn: The big plop is when there was a dc offset when you turned off the player. The offset is back again when you turn the unit on..
10:57:09amiconnI don't expect a dc offset in the dac to survive a poweroff...
10:58:07markunamiconn: it's strange. But after playing some silence and you power off you don't get the second click. If you play some loud sample and you power off and back on the tick is there..
10:58:53amiconnEven if the poweroff time is more than a couple of minutes???
10:59:06markunIs the player in a standby mode when you power it of?
10:59:11markunamiconn: didn't try that.
10:59:39amiconnI installed my current build in the morning, then powered down.
11:00
11:00:13amiconnAfter some time I connected it to my car stereo aux, powered on *pop*, and acceppted resume *pop*
11:00:49 Join b0bTHC [0] (~bobthc@l03m-40-183.d1.club-internet.fr)
11:02:43markunamiconn: try the same thing after playing silence and turning it off.. but with Slasheri's latest patch it's gone anyway.
11:07:36 Quit bobTHC (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
11:11:15 Quit b0bTHC (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
11:15:27RoriI still get clicks when playing an MP3 and when I stop it and also a slight click when powering down
11:15:37Rorilatest commit
11:16:48Rorinot sure if it did that on iRiver FW. Not a big problem mind you.
11:20:08 Quit B4gder ("Lämnar")
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11:38:17***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
11:48:57 Join linuxstb [0] (~linuxstb@host213-123-154-169.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
11:51:34 Join Matt-UK [0] (~h@81-86-103-27.dsl.pipex.com)
11:51:41Matt-UKhi guys
11:53:00Matt-UKanyone around?
11:56:05markunsure
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11:57:47Matt-UKcool
11:58:07Matt-UKi love the progress of this firmware, but shame no one has taken the MP3 player i have as a project for rockbox
11:58:28markunwhich one?
11:58:37Matt-UKCowon iAudio M3
11:58:46Matt-UKamazing MP3 player i've had for almost a year
11:58:57markunI believe it uses the same cpu as the iriver
11:59:03Matt-UKyup
11:59:31Matt-UKthe firmware is out there to take a look inside for the M3, but why isnt anyone devicing custom firmware for the M3?
11:59:44markunIf you are willing to open it up and make pictures of the hardware it would help
11:59:59Matt-UKthere are many pictures already taken
12:00
12:00:03Matt-UKlet me try and find the page
12:00:46markunok, that's good then. All the components need to be indentified and then find the datasheets.
12:02:11markunMatt-UK: if you like you can start a wiki page on the rockbox site about the M3 harware.
12:02:21Matt-UKok
12:02:42Matt-UKwell, here's a start with the processor it uses
12:02:43Matt-UKhttp://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=SCF5249&nodeId=018rH3YTLC7007YmLPqMSDVmp1
12:03:27Matt-UKsame as the iriver as you apparently
12:04:54linuxstbIf it was me, I would first try to understand how the firmware update process works - if you can't install your own firmware, I'm not sure it's worth proceeding.
12:05:12Matt-UKwell
12:05:51Matt-UKi can explain, the file gets placed onto the hard-drive in its own folder. then the next oppertunity you turn it on with the power lead in, it boots up an update screen on the remote and goes through the process
12:06:34 Join hicks [0] (~hicks@c975355903b3d9ad.session.tor)
12:10:14linuxstbIt sounds similar to the iRiver then - new firmware gets flashed before it can be run. Do you know if the firmware update file is encrypted?
12:10:57Matt-UKhttp://homepage1.nifty.com/c-kom/iaudio_m3/photo003.html
12:11:14Matt-UKthats the webpage with an opened up M3
12:11:25linuxstbA quick question - is this MP3 player still available to buy? The big problem with iRiver H120/H140 is that it's discontinued.
12:11:32Matt-UKyes
12:11:41Matt-UKit is available to buy still
12:12:11Matt-UKand the new X5 (colour edition on the unit) is coming out gradually
12:12:21Matt-UKscreen*
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12:13:18Matt-UKlinuxstb: not sure about the encryption
12:13:27Matt-UKlinuxstb: but comes as a bin file
12:13:40linuxstbHow many buttons does it have? I can only see three in the pictures.
12:13:57Matt-UKlinuxstb: there are other buttons down the side
12:14:20Matt-UKlinuxstb: including the volume, hold and A-B/Rec button
12:14:38Matt-UKlinuxstb: and all those buttons are on the remote
12:14:44 Quit DMJC (Connection timed out)
12:15:19 Part dartmouth
12:15:36linuxstbDo you know how much RAM there is?
12:15:51leftrighthe M3 is replaced by the M5
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12:16:13Matt-UKleftright: no, the M5 hasnt been confirmed yet
12:16:17leftrightX5 rather
12:16:26linuxstbDo you have a link to a firmware download?
12:16:30Matt-UKi do
12:16:54Matt-UKlinuxstb: "96 KB Static Random Access Memory (SRAM)"
12:17:31linuxstbIt must have more, slower memory (I hope)
12:17:50Matt-UKoh yes
12:17:54amiconn96K SRAM is expected for coldfire 5249
12:18:03Matt-UKwhen caching songs, it can hold upto 3 songs max
12:18:10Matt-UKin MP3 format
12:19:21Matt-UKso maybe around 12 - 16MB
12:19:26Matt-UKcould be more
12:19:29 Join tucoz [0] (~81b1111b@labb.contactor.se)
12:20:47tucozHi, the m3 seems to have unencrypted firmware. By running strings on it i get to see the menustrings and some other stuff
12:21:20linuxstbThere's probably a checksum somewhere though.
12:21:26tucozok
12:21:33linuxstb(I would hope)
12:22:01tucozDon't know. I just compared it to iriver's which show garbled strings
12:22:02Matt-UKlinuxstb: all the firmware is located here: ftp://206.173.2.94/iAUDIO/Firmware/M3/
12:22:30linuxstbThanks.
12:22:43Matt-UKbut there were some zip's somewhere of them
12:22:50Matt-UKbecause they have now put them all in installation files
12:23:38tucozhere is a zip: http://eng.iaudio.com/download/file/cowon_program/iAUDIOM3_firm/iAUDIOM3_1_35eng.zip
12:24:08Matt-UKah yes
12:24:12Matt-UKi tryied to find that link
12:24:19Matt-UKso do u think its possible?
12:25:25linuxstbAssuming all the chips have public documentation, then yes. If not, then it's probably still yes, but would require more reverse-engineering of the original firmware.
12:27:01linuxstbAt least one developer would need to install something like a BDM device to be able to recover from flashing a bad firmware. LinusN did that with the iRiver.
12:29:01tucozlinuxstb: Do you have a disassembler for the coldfire?
12:29:59linuxstbIf you followed the Rockbox approach for the iRiver, you would patch an existing official firmware to include a bootloader. This is the only dangerous part - Rockbox itself would be stored on disk and loaded to RAM before running. You would always have the original firmware to fall back on.
12:30:17Matt-UKtrue
12:30:56Matt-UKlinuxstb: Just be aware that there is BBE in the M3, which is a copyrighted DSP for audio
12:31:05linuxstbNo, I don't have a disassembler, but I'm sure others do. I seem to recall someone mentioning that objdump can do it - check the IRC logs for last week.
12:31:36tucozlinuxstb: true, forgot about that. I tried that last week on some rockbox code.
12:32:59 Part tucoz
12:33:05linuxstbI know nothing about DSPs (you need to come back when the low-level guys are here). But if the Coldfire runs at the same speed as the iRiver, then you can live without the DSP. Assuming you can bypass it to access the DAC>
12:33:53linuxstbAll I know is that the first thing the hardware people do is to draw schematics based on high-res scans/photos of the PCBs.
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12:39:30 Join preglow [0] (thomj@s183a.studby.ntnu.no)
12:39:38linuxstbI see the M3 firmware contains libFLAC 1.1.0 ... What's the FLAC performance like on the M3?
12:39:54preglowa couple of funny things, though
12:39:58preglowi can see no ram or codec chip
12:40:19linuxstbIs it possible that there's no RAM?
12:40:39preglowno
12:40:48preglowmost definitely no
12:40:57preglowa player with its disk on all the time wouldn't run for very long
12:40:58preglowheh
12:41:10linuxstbI didn't expect so. But you made me wonder...
12:41:23preglowthere's one chip i can't make out
12:41:30preglowplaced directly underneath the coldfire
12:41:32markunThe M3L runs for 35 hours..
12:42:05markunThe M3 14 hours
12:42:07preglowit's got 4 megabytes flash
12:42:24linuxstbWhat do the iRivers have?
12:42:37markunCY7C68310 Description
12:42:37markunISD-300LP(TM) Low-Power USB 2.0 to ATA/ATAPI Bridge IC
12:42:39preglowsomething along the lines of two
12:42:45preglowyeah, that's the ordinary ata bridge
12:46:15Matt-UKhi again guys
12:46:18Matt-UKFLAC is not bad
12:46:26Matt-UKbut the M3 only officially supports 0, 1 and 2
12:47:11Matt-UKbut the performance decreases if BBE DSP is on
12:48:06preglowbbe dsp?
12:48:09preglowwhat the hell is that?
12:48:29Matt-UKhttp://www.bbesound.com/
12:48:36Matt-UKits the thing that enchances the sound
12:48:36preglowbah
12:48:38preglowsimple preprocess
12:48:51preglowwe can't support that
12:48:53preglowit's probably patented
12:49:02Matt-UKi know that
12:50:02Matt-UKthere must b other opensource DSPs that could be implemented
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12:50:16 Part leftright
12:50:58preglowno idea
12:51:09preglowdsp people aren't very open source friendly
12:51:25preglowthey tend to go for the cash
12:51:44preglowthose who don't are incompetent, like me ;)
12:52:10Matt-UKlol
12:52:20Matt-UKdoesnt bother me is BBE wasn't included
12:52:24Matt-UKor any DSP
12:53:49Matt-UKwould fitting an EQ function be easy?
12:53:56preglowyeah, i'm gonna do that
12:54:01Matt-UKthe M3 already has EQ on there
12:54:08Matt-UKand that boosts the sound quite nicely already
12:55:33Matt-UKi've got better pictures of the mainboard if anyone needs them
12:56:55Matt-UKpreglow: you do the programming?
12:57:44preglowMatt-UK: i do some programming
12:57:48Matt-UKcool
12:57:51preglowMatt-UK: better pictures would be cool
12:58:03Matt-UKits a huge 28MB file, lol
12:58:06Matt-UKor zip
12:58:09Matt-UKwith all the images
12:58:28Matt-UKpreglow: this is the link if you want it http://www.hraesvelg.net/iaudio/M3L_internals_20050217.tar.gz
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13:00
13:00:11Matt-UKpreglow: will all this take a while to develop?
13:00:50preglowMatt-UK: oh, yes
13:01:07preglowdepends on how dissimular it is to irivers offerings
13:01:10preglowthe coldfire is a good sign
13:01:43preglowso the codecs should work just as well on this one
13:03:30Matt-UKgood :)
13:03:37Matt-UKwhats already been completed?
13:04:46 Join Sucka [0] (~NNSCRIPT@host81-156-209-158.range81-156.btcentralplus.com)
13:05:17Bgerbtw, i'm surprised of the fact that the firmware (probably) is not encrypted ...
13:05:18preglowfound the ram, at least
13:05:41preglownothing's been completed, but we've got a nice set of functioning codecs now
13:05:41Matt-UKwell, the guys who make it are in korea :P
13:05:46 Join Chamois [0] (HydraIRC@champigny-5-82-226-182-23.fbx.proxad.net)
13:06:02Bgerbtw, this coldfire is rated 120MHz
13:06:32Bgerif we can trust our probes with coldfire @ 140MHz ... this one couldn't run at 120MHz for a while ...
13:06:33Matt-UKhas there been any development in an ID Database?
13:06:41HClyes.
13:06:55Matt-UKbecause thats the lacking featuee on the M3
13:06:58preglowit's got 32 megabytes og ram
13:06:58Matt-UKfeature*
13:07:03HClat least, if you mean id3
13:07:05Matt-UKyes
13:07:28HClsame thing with the iriver, it has an id3 database, but its crap. it can't even make on the fly playlists
13:07:30Matt-UKgiving it an ID3 DB would make it perfect for most users, lol
13:07:45Matt-UKthe M3 can make playlists on the go
13:07:53Matt-UKeven without ID3 DB
13:08:00HCl*yawns*
13:08:01HClanyways
13:08:19HCli think i'm mostly the person responsible for the id3 database, along with zagor a bit
13:08:39Matt-UKhave u tested it?
13:08:50HCli'm not done with it yet.
13:09:03HClbut playlist generation based on tags alone works
13:09:13Matt-UKgood
13:09:22HCland the id3 browser works
13:09:31Bgerhm, rev. 1.3 of th PCB :)
13:09:40Matt-UKcould a clock be placed onto this M3?
13:09:43markunpreglow: The Samsung K4S2816330 is only 16MB, no?
13:09:48 Quit ripnetuk ("Leaving")
13:10:43preglowthis is a k4s28166d
13:10:48preglow1633d <-
13:11:17preglowi found info indicating it's 32
13:11:21markunah, ok
13:11:28Matt-UK:)
13:12:18 Quit edx (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
13:12:41Matt-UKwould be nice to see some developments for the M3
13:12:47Matt-UKand i dont mind testing firmware
13:13:07markunpreglow: http://www.samsung.com/Products/Semiconductor/DRAM/MobileSDRAM/128Mbit/K4S281633D/K4S281633D.htm
13:13:13markunonly 16MB
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13:13:37preglowokies
13:13:43preglowmy, searching for parts is fun
13:14:38preglowstill no codec
13:14:44 Join Nuxator [0] (~c02c4e5e@labb.contactor.se)
13:14:44preglowld245 is a bus tranceiver
13:15:05crashddarn
13:15:11crashdi missed the guy who wanted to know about h10 dev
13:15:17crashdcursed sleeping!
13:15:28Bgerwhat is that under the metal radiator ?
13:16:23NuxatorLast bleeding build dosn't play any mp3
13:16:28Bgermarked as 201
13:16:31preglowBger: that might be it
13:16:49preglowthe minimise radio interference to the codec chip
13:16:51Bgernext to the LW052A (a well known chip to us)
13:17:15NuxatorForget me maybe my .rockbox is not up to date
13:17:32Matt-UKpreglow: M3 has got FM capabilities, but isnt brilliant
13:17:52B4gderit never is
13:18:00Matt-UKwell
13:18:05Matt-UKwhen i get rid of the remote
13:18:07Matt-UKits fine
13:18:20Matt-UKand have a direct headphone connection to it
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13:21:10Bgerhm, this player is not at all bad
13:21:19Matt-UKBger: how you mean? :)
13:21:53Bgeri mean i like it
13:22:20Matt-UKwell
13:22:22Bgerthe biggest thing that annoys me is the miss of display on the main unit
13:22:27Matt-UKwell
13:22:34Matt-UKthe new colour X5 has that :)
13:22:51Matt-UKand a possible M5 which is the monochrome version that has similiar specs to the M3
13:22:52Bgerhmm
13:22:56B4gdernooo, the biggest thing lacking is Rockbox ;-)
13:23:03webguest11my wps has, TR: %s%?it<%?in<%in. |>%it|%fn> how do I stop the TR: from scrolling ?
13:23:11BgerB4gder i'm talking about the hardware :)
13:23:16B4gder:-)
13:23:22B4gderwebguest11: you can't
13:23:34B4gderif it doesn't fit, it scrolls
13:23:38Bgerthe lacking software is as clear as it can be
13:23:57Nuxatorright my rockbox was not up, to date
13:24:03Bger(as with all not rockbox-ed devices)
13:24:11B4gderNuxator: you should always update with the full zip
13:24:25Nuxatoryes but i've got some problem under linux
13:24:40Nuxatori upload all files but not all are written....
13:24:44Nuxatordo not know why
13:25:29B4gdernever happened to me
13:25:48Nuxatorguess it's this shitty fedora i have at work
13:26:33Nuxatori'm nort able to umount my iriver device is busy
13:26:57Nuxatorso i guess write are not finished but no hdd activity...
13:27:27*Nuxator go back to work with rockbox playing
13:27:32B4gderso you just pull the plug without umount?
13:27:40Nuxatoryes
13:27:50Nuxatorand i know this is bad
13:27:55B4gderthat could certainly explain the problems
13:28:25Nuxatoryes but why can't i unmount....
13:28:47Nuxator1 minutes is enough for tranfer....
13:28:54Nuxator- 0
13:30:35preglowdon't do that in linux
13:30:42preglowit works fine in windows, not in linux, so don't do it
13:30:51Nuxatorsame here
13:30:58Nuxatorbut at work we are under linux
13:31:30Nuxatori had to asked to an laptop windows onwer to tranfer my rockbox
13:31:55Nuxatorand i have a strange bug with usb in rockbox in both linux or windows
13:32:08Nuxatorit stays in usb mode if i unplug it
13:32:39Nuxatorbut if i swith off the computer while iriver still pluged it exit usb mode when computer switch off
13:33:42NuxatorI found another bug
13:34:07Nuxatorchose a file let the fisrt 2mo buffer end and click to another file
13:34:21SlasheriNuxator: Maybe you are in the mounted iriver directory and that is the reason unmount fails
13:34:27Nuxatorrepeat and you'll finish to have a codec failure
13:34:34Slasheriyou should cd to somewhere else before umounting
13:34:49Nuxatorso it's gnome problem
13:35:09Nuxatori closed that window
13:35:50Nuxatoror it's the fedora automount
13:37:43Matt-UKlinuxstb or preglow: any progress of possibility with the M3?
13:38:18***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
13:38:37 Quit Nuxator ("(work to do.....)")
13:38:59Matt-UKif it is possible, i'll be pleasing some M3 fans on some forums :P
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13:40:02preglowof course there, is needs more research, though
13:40:11preglowfind out how the firmware upgrading works
13:40:16preglowmap out the rest of the chips
13:40:35preglowthen someone will need to buy one and connect a bdm to it
13:40:53preglowthis doesn't happen on its own, and needs someone to work on it
13:40:58preglowi've got my hands full right now
13:40:58preglowlater
13:41:02 Quit preglow ("leaving")
13:41:10Matt-UKk
13:46:45markunSlasheri: Do you know what causes the premature end of the last song?
13:47:56webguest11after recharging my H140 (1900mah) batt, it shows 13:07 total capacity ?, should be at least 20 hrs
13:48:54webguest11and I have set it to 1900 in 'settings'
13:49:15markunwebguest11: It's not accurate.
13:49:21webguest11ah
13:49:37markunwebguest11: the capacity also depends on the codec and the bitrate
13:49:50webguest11uhuh, mp3's
13:50:04webguest11lame aps
13:53:43 Quit B4gder ("Lämnar")
13:53:49amiconnThe runtime sestimation obviously can't predict what you will listen to, so we can only calibrate it for an average case
13:54:26amiconnIt isn't calibrated at all yet, and I can just quote once more, rockbox for iriver is far from finished
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14:00
14:01:46*Bger just saw iPod Shuffle for the first time ..
14:02:09*dwihno calls the paramedics ;)
14:02:18*Matt-UK gets out a gun
14:02:25Bgeri think someone must be very dumb to buy such thing
14:03:30Matt-UKbet the stuff inside it cost about 10 quid
14:03:32dwihnoBger: any certain reason?
14:03:33Bgerbtw where does this "i" come from in almost every digital player brand on the market?
14:03:39 Join oxygen77 [0] (~c1c28427@labb.contactor.se)
14:03:46Bgerdwihno?
14:04:01dwihnoBger: Just wondering about the dumbness requirement :)
14:04:11CoCoLUSdumb or very fashion-conscious
14:04:14BgeriPod ... iRiver ... iAudio ...
14:04:24Matt-UKIAudio was the first :P
14:04:37 Join Shagnar [0] (~tester@p54A0E39D.dip.t-dialin.net)
14:04:54linuxstbDo iBM have a DAP?
14:04:59Matt-UKlol
14:05:05Bgerhaha :)
14:05:15Bgerbtw i asked seriously
14:05:24amiconnBger: Archos players don't have that
14:05:27Suckai have to agree
14:05:34Suckathis "i" is appearing on everything these days
14:05:34Bgeryep :)
14:05:37Suckapissing me off
14:05:41CoCoLUSiNTEL had one ;)
14:06:24Matt-UKwhy call the iPod an iPod? its a shit brick
14:06:25dwihnoBger: The "i" actually comes from the "e" which was quite popular during the internet era. Every oldfashioned technology got digitalized and became popular :)
14:06:38dwihnoe-mail, for instance
14:06:53Bgerbut it's [i], not [ai]
14:07:19linuxstbIn a lot of languages, "i" is pronounced "ee" (if you see what I mean).
14:07:31dwihnolinuxstb: I rest my case :)
14:07:40Bgerhaha :)
14:07:49Bgerok, this is the same as in mine lang.
14:07:52Suckabut nobody pronounces it ee-Pod
14:07:53Sucka:P
14:07:55Bgerbut... in english ...
14:08:04linuxstbMaybe the Spanish do...
14:08:06BgerSucka: yep
14:08:19Bgerand "[ai]River ... catch the digital flow"
14:08:22Bgerdefinitely [ai]
14:08:37Suckathose crazy spaniards!
14:08:45linuxstbI think I'm right in saying there are more Spanish speakers in the world than English
14:09:15dwihnoprobably
14:09:17Matt-UKyou're correct
14:09:38Bgerthe most poeple in the world talk in chinese, don't they ? ;)
14:09:39dwihnoAs long as I can have my hamburgesa and cerveza grande, I'll be ok :)
14:09:58Suckalast time i checked, 1/6th of the population of the world is chinese so id guess so
14:09:59Bgerpeople
14:10:31Matt-UKhttp://www.krysstal.com/spoken.html
14:10:33Matt-UKthere we go
14:10:44Matt-UKMandarin is the most spoken
14:11:02linuxstbIt's a close run thing though.
14:12:04Matt-UKthis is the updated stats
14:12:04Matt-UKhttp://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0775272.html
14:12:18Shagnarare the problems with FLAC known that after listening to 1 song (flac) the next (also flac) has a lot of breaks?
14:12:39linuxstbShagnar: Yes, I've found that.
14:12:46Shagnarall right :)
14:13:04linuxstbIt seems to me that the buffer is being emptied - there is disk activity during the pauses.
14:13:50linuxstbBut it could also be the fact that FLAC is only just managing to decode in real-time at the moment.
14:13:58 Quit Sucka ("a bird in the bush is worth two in your house")
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14:15:37Matt-UKlinuxstb, when is LinusN coming back?
14:17:20linuxstbI think he was away for a week, but I don't know.
14:17:24Matt-UKk
14:17:41Matt-UKdunno if he's developed any bootloader for the M3 at all
14:18:19linuxstbI think he's only worked on the H120/H140. He's got a H340 which I think he has said is his next target.
14:18:27Matt-UKk
14:18:28Matt-UKshame :(
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14:19:34BgerMatt-UK it's possible to port rockbox to M3
14:19:44Bgerat least it has the same CPU
14:20:00linuxstbI don't think anyone is against the idea of a port to the M3, it's just that we are all still busy on the iRiver models.
14:20:00Matt-UKtrue
14:20:28Matt-UKshame i have no developing or programming skills, lol. i would of been in there already
14:20:41BgerMatt-UK : the same CPU means more easy porting ...
14:20:43linuxstbIf you want to try and start some momentum, create a Wiki page with as much hardware information as you can find. Include hi-res photos, lists of chipes, datasheets etc.
14:21:03Matt-UKok
14:21:10Matt-UKwhen i get time, i will do
14:21:19BgerMatt-UK yep, that would be the start point
14:21:44linuxstbThere's a lot of leg-work you can do. It obviously won't guarantee that a developer will start work on it, but it would help - especially if it turns out to be very similar to the iRiver.
14:22:40Matt-UKthere's quite a few M3 users that would like to see this development
14:23:32linuxstbHopefully there's one with the ability to actually start the low-level work. The Rockbox application itself should more or less work "as is" on the M3 - once the low-level stuff is written.
14:23:46Matt-UKcool
14:23:55Matt-UKi mean, the only difficulty is the screen
14:24:05Shagnardo you have a link to the m3 ?
14:24:14Matt-UKjus the normal product page?
14:24:21linuxstbRockbox has a Voice UI (but not yet on the iRiver) - so in theory you can use it without a screen.
14:24:34ShagnarMatt-UK well yeah
14:24:45Matt-UKlinuxstb: Voice UI would be amazing for the M3
14:25:15Matt-UKespecially if u dont want the remote
14:25:28Matt-UKShagnar: http://eng.cowon.com/product/iAUDIOM3/about.html
14:25:32Shagnarthanks
14:26:10Shagnarhugh^^ never seen this thing ^^
14:26:32Matt-UKwell, Cowon are mvoing on with their new products, the G3, M5 and X5
14:26:33Shagnar... is there already any possibility to run the VoiceUI on the iRiver? i copied the CVS-audio-file in the /lang dir but nothing happened.. and its activated ?!
14:27:11Shagnarnever heard... mmh i'll have a look
14:27:34Matt-UKits been very quiet in its publicity and promotion in europe and america
14:27:39linuxstbRockbox on the iRiver (I can't call it iRockbox...) has a different audio sub-system than the Archos devices. The Voice UI functions aren't implemented yet.
14:28:36Matt-UKShagnar: and i chose the the iAudio over the iPod because i didnt want to be stuck with a piece of shit :P
14:29:01Shagnarlinuxstb thx
14:29:11Shagnarhehe
14:29:41linuxstbDo you have to use the docking station with the M3? Or can you just plug a standard USB cable into it?
14:30:11Matt-UKi do have the docking station
14:30:29Matt-UKbut the actual USB port is not on the MP3 player body
14:30:49Matt-UKyou have to connect a sub-pack on the bottom to give you USB, Line-In, Line-Out and power
14:31:18Matt-UKor use the docking station
14:31:26Bgerwhere's the IAudio X5 ?
14:31:49Bgeron the site i mean :)
14:31:53linuxstbDoes it already do gapless playback?
14:31:58Matt-UKit wont be on the UK site yet
14:32:05Matt-UKgapless, not quite
14:32:10Matt-UKbut has got better
14:32:19linuxstbNot even with FLAC or Ogg?
14:32:35Matt-UKOgg is close
14:32:38Matt-UKnot sure about FLAC
14:32:45Matt-UKhttp://www.cowonamerica.com/products/iaudio/x5/
14:33:04Matt-UKthe X5 might have gapless playback sorted
14:33:19BgerMatt-UK any ideas about the hardware of X5 ?
14:33:37Matt-UKi havent seen any details of it yet
14:33:48Shagnarmarkun wow... this one is REALLY nice
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14:34:47Matt-UKbut the X5 must be very similiar
14:35:02Matt-UKbut with an enhanced visual processor
14:35:05Matt-UKfor the colour screen
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14:39:03 Quit webguest11 ("CGI:IRC")
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14:40:17 Part cheriff
14:41:37Matt-UKBger: Can't find anything about the X5 hardware yet
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14:42:16Bger:)
14:42:56Bgerhm... display: 160 x 128 dot, 260,000 color TFT-LCD 15fps MPEG4 ...
14:43:14Matt-UK160 x 128 must be the remote surely
14:44:00Bgeri thought that it couldn't be Coldfire ...
14:44:38Bgerbut iriver H340 has display with 220x176 dimensions and is capable of 10fps MPEG4
14:44:43BgerMatt-UK: see http://www.cowonamerica.com/products/iaudio/x5/info_features.html#specifications
14:44:51Matt-UKok
14:44:59Bgerjust smaller screen
14:45:26Matt-UKpeople must not forget its an audio player rather than a multimedia system
14:45:54Bger220x176 = 38720 px, 160x128 = 20480px
14:46:04Bgeryep :)
14:46:50Matt-UKCowon are pretty good with firmware updates as well :)
14:46:54Matt-UKpretty regular
14:47:13Matt-UKespecially with a period with the M3, when there was one at least every 2 weeks
14:47:37BgerMatt-UK i don't think that *this* is a plus ...
14:47:48Bgerfor me it means buggy firmware ...
14:48:20Matt-UKwell, there are some problems, but most of the time, they added more features rather than bug fixes
14:48:39Bgerwell, this is good
14:49:22Matt-UK:)
14:49:38linuxstbThat's less motivation for a Rockbox port though. The iRiver firmware is _so_ bad, it's just not usable (for me).
14:49:59Matt-UKbut i mean, its nice to have an alternative
14:50:05Matt-UK:)
14:50:34Matt-UKall would love to experiment with rockbox
14:50:54Matt-UKi*
14:50:55Matt-UK-all
14:50:59linuxstbI agree, but you have to weigh up the amount of work involved with how much better Rockbox is compared to the existing firmware.
14:51:23Matt-UKwell, i don't know wether Cowon will develop many more firmware updates for the M3
14:51:53Matt-UKits slowed right down since they've got the X5 in their hands now
14:52:56linuxstbThe biggest problem (for me) with the iRiver hardware is the lack of hardware 48KHz support - we have to resample exerything to 44.1KHz. But you probably can't tell if that's the case with the M3.
14:53:20Bgerlinuxstb this is a problem with coldfire
14:53:40Bgeri'm almost sure that it's there in M3 also
14:54:08Matt-UKi'm sure the M3 supports 48Khz
14:54:13 Join edx [0] (edx@p54A8CCAC.dip.t-dialin.net)
14:54:30BgerMatt-UK : are you sure that it *outputs* 48KHz sound ?
14:54:31linuxstbBut can you say that it definitely doesn't do software resampling?
14:55:22BgeriRiver fw also *supports* 48kHz, but these files are downsampled to 44.1kHz
14:55:24Matt-UKif it did that, it would slow right down needing more processing power
14:55:25 Quit ehntoo (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
14:56:02Bgerpreglow's investigations showed that downsampling from 48kHz to 44.1kHz doesn't need so much power
14:56:06linuxstbNot necessarily - resampling can be done very quickly. It's a compromise between speed and quality.
14:56:25Bgerhe did it with linear interpolation and it sounded very good
14:57:10linuxstbBut I don't think 48KHz is a big issue for most people - I just have a large number of digital radio recordings (MP2 at 48KHz).
14:57:59Matt-UKhaving 48Khz for me isnt essential
14:58:06Bgerhttp://www.iaudiophile.net/forums/viewtopic.php?id=1933 hahaha :)
14:59:02Matt-UKthe lovely forum i'm part of :P
14:59:09Bgerhttp://www.iaudiophile.net/forums/viewtopic.php?id=1923
15:00
15:00:25BgerI read in some post that M3 processor and the X5 one are the same, i havent any more information about.
15:00:34Bgerone more coldfire beast :)))
15:01:12Matt-UKwell, you'll have more to play around with the X5 :P
15:01:35linuxstbIf there was a coldfire-based player that wasn't "end-of-life" (like the H120/H140 was when the port started), then I think lots of people would be very keen.
15:01:56Bgerlinuxstb the X5 is in the beginning :)
15:02:02Bgerof his "life"
15:02:06linuxstbI'm sure once Rockbox is working 100% on the iRiver, all the existing Archos users will want to upgrade - but they can't buy H120/H140s any more.
15:02:17Matt-UKebay?
15:02:17Matt-UKlol
15:02:57bipak_hmm in germany you can
15:03:49linuxstbIf you know a source of H120s/H140s, then you can probably become rich by selling them with Rockbox installed.
15:03:53Bgerlinuxstb they can buy H320/340
15:04:06Bgeras i did:)
15:04:31linuxstbAre they still making the H320/340?
15:05:30Bgerlinuxstb i was frightened at the end of january that H3x0 is out of production ...
15:05:51Bgerhttp://www.teamdigital.net/store/customer/ <= this is the site i bought it from
15:05:52bipak_Bger: are they doing anything new?
15:05:55Matt-UKdoing a 48khz Wav test, it seems to play fine on my M3
15:06:52linuxstbMatt-UK: Are you able to record the output? A frequency analysis of the original and the recorded versions could identify any resampling.
15:07:10Bgerthey are still selling new H3x0s
15:07:21Matt-UKthis is a transcoded 44.1Khz file, but would that make any difference?
15:07:32Bgerso i'm almost sure that iriver are producing them
15:08:10linuxstbamazon.co.uk have H320s "lite" models in stock. So yes, they do seem to be available still.
15:08:39Bgerlinuxstb H1x0s have been stopped when iriver started making H3x0
15:08:54Bgerbut ... H10 series are not the next H3x0s ....
15:08:58Bgerthey are very different
15:08:58Matt-UKlinuxstb: I transcoded a 44.1Khz file to 48Khz, would that make any difference in analysis?
15:09:24Bgerso i don't think that iriver are planning to replace H3x0 with H10
15:10:02linuxstbMatt-UK: I think it would be better to have a clean 48KHz file. But I'm only guessing that this would be able to prove anything - you would need someone experienced in that sort of thing to look at the files. Maybe raise the issue on the iAudio forums.
15:10:52linuxstbIf you have any music DVDs, there is a good chance they will have 48KHz uncompressed LPCM audio on them. Or at the very least, 48KHz AC3.
15:11:54Matt-UKshould have somewhere
15:13:20linuxstbBut maybe just generating a sine wave would be more useful (someone who knows what I am trying to talk about, please jump in...)
15:13:31 Join dapureplaya [0] (~anon@CPE-144-136-72-137.nsw.bigpond.net.au)
15:13:35Matt-UKi can do that on cool edit pro 2
15:14:23dapureplayahi
15:15:09Bgerlinuxstb do you mean the changing frequency ? :)
15:15:09Matt-UKlinuxstb: I've produced a sine wave
15:15:42Bgerforget :)...
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15:18:41 Quit dapureplaya ()
15:20:27 Join preglow [0] (thomj@s183a.studby.ntnu.no)
15:20:31preglowi've gotta stop reading the logs
15:21:01HClwhy+
15:21:03HCl?
15:21:06preglowMatt-UK: has it got optical out?
15:21:15preglowHCl: i keep joining when something interesting happens
15:21:23HClah
15:21:54preglowyou're going to be hard pressed to find out if it's resampling if you can't grab the pure output
15:22:11preglowunless you can hear sines around 22khz with a high degree of accuracy
15:23:03 Join einhirn [0] (Miranda@carlsberg.heim2.tu-clausthal.de)
15:23:10BgerMatt-UK: ask your dog to help you :D
15:23:31Matt-UKpreglow: the M3 doesnt have any opt out, but the coldfire supports it
15:23:33preglowi don't see why this is worth worrying about anywa
15:23:35preglowt
15:23:37linuxstbpreglow: I was hoping you would drop by...
15:24:13Bger:)
15:25:08linuxstbWhen looking at a frequency analysis of a 48KHz file, and then a 44.1KHz conversion, I've noticed that the peaks move slightly. Does that make any sense?
15:26:04preglowdepends on what you mean
15:26:22preglowthe peaks might move across the scale because the scale is still the same size, but the top frequencies are gone
15:26:31preglowhowever, the peaks should by no means have relocated in frequency
15:26:48Matt-UKbrb
15:26:54linuxstbI know it's not important, but I'm curious to know if it's possible to test if the M3 is resampling.
15:26:54HClcrud.
15:28:02preglowwell, yeah, but you'd need a fancy signal and a good way of getting the signal
15:28:24preglowand when you have to record through an analogue output, there is so much filtering done, it gets hard to tell
15:30:29preglowbut yeah, you need a relatively flat signal
15:30:44preglowif there's resampling done, you should detect a rolloff in the higher frequences
15:31:01preglowbut that might be there anyway, with poor anti-aliasing filters in the dac and adcs
15:31:38preglowif they do non-compansated linear interpolation, you might also see a slight gain change
15:35:15linuxstbWell, maybe Linus could tell us if it's possible for the M3 to not resample. I don't know how specific the problem was to the iRiver design.
15:36:43preglowi2s module not being capable of the right clock frequencies, i think
15:36:50preglowso it's very probably a no-go for iaudio as well
15:38:21***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
15:38:31webguest11HDD players become redundant quickly, planned obsolescence
15:39:25yngwihi guys, i just wanted to inform you, that gapless is working great, and most of the song-start-noises are gone too, great work everybody..... :-)
15:40:51bipak_:)
15:43:06yngwithere is no reason for me to boot the original firmware except for recording purposes....
15:43:23yngwi*bee gone* iriver firmware
15:44:24Shagnarand when you need longer playtime^^
15:45:35yngwiyeah, but i'm sure that will change too
15:45:48bipak_how long does the iriver play with normal settings and rockbox firmware?
15:46:01preglowdepends on the format
15:46:31 Join bobTHC [0] (~bobthc@62.34.19.32)
15:46:36bipak_mp3 :)
15:48:19Matt-UKback
15:48:21ashridahit'll depend on the bitrate too, but some people have been doing some benchmarks recently.
15:48:32ashridahjust don't think anyone wrote down the answers
15:48:38preglowi wish he did
15:48:42preglowthe wiki's a nice place
15:48:51*preglow summons [solid]
15:49:57Bgerpreglow btw are we sure that the battery's voltage doesn't fall under 3V ?
15:51:26webguest11if you want, I can do an endurence test of mp3 -lame-aps, 1900mah batt
15:51:57preglowBger: by no means
15:52:36Matt-UKpreglow and linuxstb: Looks like the Official Cowon site states the M3 can only support 11Khz, 22Khz or 44.1Khz
15:53:00linuxstbThat sounds like the hardware limitations in the iRiver.
15:53:05Bgerpreglow: we *are* sure it doesn't falls or we *aren't*
15:53:10Matt-UKeven though it plays 48Khz
15:53:34linuxstbI'm guesing that must have been via a firmware update - using software resampling.
15:53:49preglowBger: like i said, we're by no means sure of it
15:54:10preglowBger: the voltage readings don't work
15:54:18preglowBger: that is, they work, but they aren't accurate
15:54:23Bgeryep :)
15:54:42Bger10x
15:55:00linuxstbMatt-UK: But as preglow said, it's not really a big issue.
15:55:31linuxstbSoftware resampling will be good enough for all but the most demanding listeners (which I am not).
15:55:39Matt-UKlinuxstb: very true. the new X5s spec's show it can support 48Khz
15:55:53Bgerpreglow then i don't think that any of these run-time tests are usable atm
15:56:18linuxstbMatt-UK: But we still don't know if that's hardware or software...
15:56:50Matt-UKvery true
15:58:09 Quit oxygen77 ("CGI:IRC")
15:58:20Matt-UKbut not having 48Khz support in the hardware doesn't bother me :P
15:58:46webguest11Matt-UK, you haven't offered the right amount of beers :)
16:00
16:00:24Matt-UKlol
16:03:40 Join niobos [0] (~niels@100.193-200-80.adsl.skynet.be)
16:03:49preglowx5 uses the very same cpu, afaik
16:04:25Matt-UKproven?
16:04:44Matt-UKor some reliable source?
16:04:54 Join spiralout [0] (~keep_goin@p54B386E7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
16:06:42preglowdunno
16:06:47preglowi just remember having heard it
16:06:50preglowi'm pretty certain it's so
16:06:52linuxstbPossibly reliable: http://www.netzwelt.de/mp3-player/1375-cowon-iaudio-x5-20gb.html
16:06:55SlasheriHmm, what conditions might cause open to file open a file that certainly exists?
16:07:00Slasherifail
16:07:02linuxstb(google for iaudio x5 coldfire - lots of hits).
16:08:22 Join theebag [0] (theebag@d51A55780.access.telenet.be)
16:08:27BgerSlasheri: too many open files (8)/dirs (8) ?
16:08:28Matt-UKso if it is the same chipset, the M should be a project
16:08:29Slasheriand it's ok to change MAX_LOOP in i2c-h100.h from 0x10000 to 0x100?
16:08:30Matt-UKM3*
16:09:04 Quit TROGDORRRRR ("( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 3.81 :: www.XLhost.de )")
16:09:05SlasheriBger: Hmm, that seems slightly not so possible situation but i will check that
16:09:19Slasheri*is it
16:10:08Matt-UKlinuxstb: I just can't understand why the M3 cannot have a clock and struggle with higher bitrate OGGs and FLACs
16:10:19Matt-UKlinuxstb: If it has the same chipset
16:10:40linuxstbBecause the programmers didn't spend as much time optimising as we (preglow!) did.
16:10:56linuxstbOr the rest of the firmware is too cpu-intensive.
16:11:00BgerSlasheri : http://www.rockbox.org/viewcvs.cgi/firmware/common/file.c?view=markup see open()
16:11:24Matt-UKlinuxstb: So do you think the M3 should be a possible rockbox project?
16:11:39preglowit struggles with high bitrate oggs?
16:11:50linuxstbMy opinion doesn't matter - you need to convince someone who can do the work.
16:12:23preglowMatt-UK: like i said, of course it's a possible project, it sharing the h1x0 cpu certainly makes it easier than other players as well
16:12:25Matt-UKpreglow: With the DSPs on (BBE, MP Enhance etc), the OS slows down
16:12:52Matt-UKpreglow: especially when navigating songs
16:12:54preglowMatt-UK: but you need to find out the hardware details, you need to find out how we can inject a bootloader into a firmware, and you need someone to get a player and a bdm interface
16:13:03preglowMatt-UK: if you personally can't do these, you need to find someone interested
16:13:15preglowmost of us here now are busy with h1x0
16:13:23Matt-UKpreglow: thats no problem
16:13:34preglowand i wont be buying another player that does what my h120 already does
16:13:42preglowso you should ask around in forums
16:13:54preglowmaybe some m3 owner is a embedded programmer
16:13:54SlasheriBger: Hmm, i will put some logfs to open and see what happens :)
16:13:58Bgerpreglow: you don't with your own money, but with donated ?
16:14:05ashridahdoesn't the M3 already do fLAC?
16:14:05ashridahFLAC even
16:14:14Matt-UKashridah: yes
16:14:25Matt-UKashridah: But only officially supports modes 0, 1 and 2
16:14:28preglowBger: sure enough, but i've still got my hands full with h1x0 work for a long time to come, heh
16:14:44Bgerheh, i know :)
16:14:57preglowbut that work will also benefit iaudio players
16:14:59ashridahMatt-UK: ah
16:15:02linuxstbBut almost all the work we are all doing on the H1x0 will be useful for the M3. So they are not unrelated.
16:15:04Shagnarwhich flag compression modes are the best to use it with rockbox ?
16:15:05Bgerpreglow: definitely
16:15:18*ashridah didn't know flac had modes
16:15:32Bgerashridah: it has ... -1 : -8
16:15:35linuxstbI just use "flac -8" and that seems to work fine.
16:16:09preglowworks fine, but is a bit heavier to decode
16:16:12ashridahBger: ah, quality levels you mean?
16:16:26linuxstbThere is only one quality level with FLAC - perfect.
16:17:12Bgerashridah: what quality with loseLESS codec ?
16:17:13Matt-UKlinuxstb: as its a lossless codec :D
16:17:32Bgerthese are compresion "best good fast" etc
16:17:43Matt-UKlinuxstb: the modes on FLAC are compression modes
16:19:03preglowoh well
16:19:09preglowrockbox should be able to handle all modes
16:19:11preglowit already does, afaik
16:19:16preglowand flac is severly unoptimised
16:19:36Shagnarno it doesnt^^
16:19:43preglowit does here?
16:19:43Shagnarbreaks in the track...
16:19:49Shagnartried this morning
16:20:38Bgerthe good thing is <preglow> and flac is severly unoptimised
16:21:07linuxstbShagnar: Do you get disk activity during those pauses? If so, I think it's a buffering problem, rather than a CPU problem.
16:21:26SlasheriBger: the problem was too many open files (error -2) :) So there is a leak somewhere
16:21:27Shagnarlinuxstb dunno, 1mom i'll check that
16:21:59Shagnarbut... that only happend on the second flac track, the first one played worked without any breaks
16:22:02 Quit preglow (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
16:22:21BgerSlasheri ;)
16:22:40Bgerhit from first try :)
16:22:42 Join preglow [0] (thomj@s183a.studby.ntnu.no)
16:22:48preglowi will KILL my server
16:23:14linuxstbShagnar: Yes, I've experienced the same thing (but only since yesterday), which makes me think it is a new bug. In the past, I had no problems with any of my FLAC files.
16:23:26linuxstbSo I'm hopeful it can be fixed.
16:23:37Shagnar:)
16:23:47*Bger gives preglow one stick of dynamite
16:23:59linuxstbAnd as preglow says - there is still optimisations we can do to the FLAC decoder itself.
16:29:30Shagnari love flac... it sounds much better than "normal" mp3s.. even better than oggs
16:29:37Matt-UKAnyone tried out the OptimFROG codec before?
16:29:52zeShagnar: "normal" mp3s? as opposed to what other kind of mp3s?
16:30:06zeShagnar: of course a lossless compression'll sound better than any lossy codec
16:30:26Shagnarno, juts wanted to say "normal" like "what is normally used"
16:30:45zeah
16:30:47Matt-UKShagnar: As in the usual 128Kbps Joint-Stereo MP3? lol
16:30:47Shagnaryes, thats right.. but i didn't think this difference is so huge
16:30:58ShagnarMatt-UK -___-
16:31:01SlasheriInteresting. I disconnected usb cable (while in bootloader usb mode) and got: ATA error: -11 and *PANIC* ata: -11. I remember i have got that message at least once before. However, reset worked (and it booted to iriver firmware). Then power off and rockbox boots again normally
16:31:11zewell it depends on the bitrate of the lossy-encoded files
16:31:14zeand also on your ears
16:31:22zesome people can't hear the difference, to others its obvious
16:31:31 Quit bobTHC ("Smoke Weed Every Day !")
16:31:39Bgerbye all
16:31:49amiconnlinuxstb: FLAC definitely *does* have a cpu problem
16:32:09amiconnI have at least one track that decodes <100% realtime with flac2wav
16:32:18Matt-UKZe: Or how good the source is, or how badly its encoded and whats encoded it. I've always prefered Franhoffer over LAME.
16:33:07zeMatt-UK: really?
16:33:13zelame's generally considered to be better anymore
16:33:19zethough it does depend on what method you use
16:33:25zethere's some controvercy surrounding that
16:33:37zei guess fraunhoffer's still better for 128kbps cbr
16:33:42zebut that sucks anyway
16:33:52zeits my understanding that lame's got it beat for higher-bitrate vbr
16:34:01zei tend to use −−alt-preset standard
16:34:17Matt-UKZe: I've done alot of live streaming and testing with shoutcast etc. Fraunhoffer always offered the better sound
16:34:20zethough i prefer to rip to ogg now that i got a player that supports it
16:34:31 Quit hicks (Client Quit)
16:35:16Shagnarwell... this morning in the train flac had a problem (breaks) now.. it works without any problems
16:35:18Matt-UKze: I now encode my MP3s with LAME 224kbps for my M3
16:35:23preglowi repeat, it's pure luck flac runs realtime at all, it's barely optimised
16:35:29preglowstop being surprised ;)
16:35:53zeMatt-UK: cbr still?
16:35:57crwlugh, does someone still use CBR
16:35:58crwlhehe
16:36:02Matt-UKZe: yup
16:36:08zeMatt-UK: why?
16:36:16Matt-UKZe: To my ears, its no different than VBR
16:36:26preglowthen i suggest you use vbr, it's smaller
16:36:31zeindeed
16:36:46zethe difference is just that cbr wastes space for the same sound
16:36:58Matt-UKZe: I know you get better filesizes with VBR, but I want to keep quality all the way through :P
16:37:29webguest11?
16:37:33Shagnarnow its buggy
16:37:37zewell the problem with that logic
16:37:42niobosMatt-UK: you should realy take a look at the file with MPEG eyes... some parts are just "this-is-some-filling-because-i-need-to"
16:37:53zeis that the other advantage to vbr is that it doesn't waste bits on stuff that doesn't need it thereby robbing them from stuff that does
16:37:57zewhich is what happens with cbr
16:38:03 Quit xen` (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
16:38:09zeso you're better off using vbr to keep quality all the way through
16:38:34niobosit's like asking to WASTE 256kbit/second on perfect silence; something that will sound perfectly equal at 32kbit/s
16:38:35Matt-UKZe: I'll give it a go from now on, but i'm not prepared to re-encode 50 CDs worth again, lol
16:38:42zehehe
16:39:04zeyeah if i were to, it'd be a gradual process, if at all
16:39:13zeif you like them fine as they are there's no reason to
16:39:13amiconnMatt-UK: In order to get somewhat equal quality across all tracks, you'd rather *have to* use vbr
16:39:21zethough i've noticed that since i've started using better quality encoding
16:39:37zei've been hearing the difference vs my older encodings and have been motivated to reencode them as i do notice
16:39:41Matt-UKZe: I may try Fraunhoffer with VBR
16:39:51zeif you wish
16:40:02zebut again, fraunhoffer's specifically optimized for the 128kbps range cbr
16:40:05amiconnOn one hand, cbr wastes bits is simple passages, on the other hand it degrades quality for compplex passages
16:40:27*amiconn can't type :/
16:40:30Matt-UKanything above 192kbps Stereo, it becomes more transparent anyway
16:40:40*niobos wonders what MP3 coder you guys are using
16:40:44Matt-UKI know when something is Joint-Stereo, urgh
16:40:46niobosI use LAME
16:40:58preglowwoot!
16:41:06preglowthere's no click on track skip anymore!
16:41:13preglowniobos: doesn't everyone use lame?
16:41:14Matt-UKLAME at the mo
16:41:26preglowi sincerely doubt there are any other worthwhile encoders
16:41:34preglowperhaps frauenhofer's, but that costs money
16:41:36niobospreglow: donno, I know it WAS the best when I looked for it.. but it might be outdated by now :-/
16:41:40amiconnMatt-UK: joint stereo is a thing you actually want, especially with lower bitrates
16:41:45Matt-UKpreglow: Doesn't cost anything ;)
16:42:16Matt-UKamiconn: I hardly use lower bitrates for archiving my music
16:42:23niobosMatt-UK: the thing with J-S is that the codec should notice that it's TOO much stereo and switch to stereo for that frame(s)
16:42:30*amiconn uses the latest lame release (3.96.1) with −−preset standard
16:42:56preglowniobos: it's still being developed
16:43:10Matt-UKniobos: I've never liked the sound of JS
16:43:11 Join hicks [0] ([l7Okc9w8F@60fd4252c3118cbc.session.tor)
16:43:23amiconnniobos: With all newer non-realtime encoders, the js <-> stereo selection is actually only a hint
16:43:24preglowMatt-UK: what does it sound like?
16:43:26niobospreglow: true, that's why I put the "SHOULD" in the sentence
16:43:30ashridahwhat, specifically, is joint stereo anyway? i've never really understood it
16:43:46amiconnThe encoder will decide which one (js or stereo) gives better compression without losing quality
16:43:53preglowashridah: it codes the channels in a mid/side representation
16:43:58niobosashridah: instead to code Left and Right, you code the average and the difference
16:43:59amiconnFor realtime encoders, this doesn't hold true
16:44:21preglowashridah: if there's little difference between channels, the side signal will contain very little information, so more can be used on mid channel
16:44:24Matt-UKpreglow: With my majority of rock music that has alot of Stereo elements, it just sounds flatter
16:44:37zei didn't know there were any non-realtime encoders in the era of the gigahertz
16:44:53ashridahah, right
16:45:14amiconnE.g. if you set the js bit on the MAS, all frames are encoded js, and as plain stereo if not
16:45:28preglowi don't believe that's a fixed rule
16:45:41preglowthe mas doesn't exactly have a lot of cycles to spend doing anything but the most necessary
16:45:43Matt-UKI just don't bother with JS where possible, lol
16:46:06niobosMatt-UK: do you listen to FM radio sometimes?
16:46:07amiconnMatt-UK: If js sounds flatter, then either the quality you selected is too low (cbr ?!), or your encoder is crap
16:46:07ashridahze: when was the last time you encoded 7-channel audio + hdtv video? :)
16:46:23Matt-UKniobos, i do sometimes
16:46:28webguest11lame switches are optimised for js
16:46:29niobosFM is in JS...
16:46:39amiconnze: lame is a non-realtime encoder
16:46:46zeashridah: mp3 supports 7-channel audio?
16:47:03Matt-UKniobos: I prefer CD Stereo rather than Radio
16:47:03amiconnThis has nothing to do with the fact that it actually runs faster than realtime on today's pcs
16:47:06zeamiconn: in a technical sense? cause i've gotten better than realtime on it since my k6-2/400
16:47:09zeheh
16:47:10 Join mattz [0] (mattz@c-fc0772d5.08-63-6c756e2.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)
16:47:16zeamiconn: ok
16:47:19niobosMatt-UK: I do too, but not because the JS, because the bandwith...
16:47:22preglowmy, lame sounds sweet now
16:47:24 Quit mattz (Client Quit)
16:47:26crashdhey guys
16:47:58ashridahze: well, okay, specifically for mp3, no :)
16:48:25zehehe
16:48:59ashridahze: i believe their point is that the encoder won't sacrifice quality in order to keep up if things get bogged down
16:49:16ashridah(besides, you could be encoding multiple streams at once, for say, a distribution server for a bunch of online radio stations)
16:49:24zeashridah: ah yeah
16:49:27*niobos is off... back to the books... exam on thu
16:49:32zeashridah: makes sense
16:49:33webguest11if i install todays daily build, will it have the popless track changes
16:49:49preglowmore or less, yes
16:49:51preglownot todays
16:49:55preglowyou need the bleeding edge build
16:50:21*webguest11 sighs
16:50:37linuxstbIMO, you should always be using bleeding edge builds.
16:51:11Matt-UKAny of you guys think MP3 will die on its arse one day?
16:52:20Suckawhen something better comes out :D
16:52:33bipak_not even then
16:52:51 Quit DMJC (Connection timed out)
16:52:57bipak_the people know mp3 and it works for them...
16:53:15Matt-UKthere are codecs that beat it already
16:53:22preglowmp3 wont die for a good while
16:53:28crashdMatt-UK: but
16:53:31crashdmp3 is a standard
16:53:36crashdso it aint going anywhere anytime soon
16:53:39preglowvorbis kicks mp3s as pretty thoroughly
16:53:41preglowso does aac
16:53:45 Join DMJC [0] (~DMJC@220-245-175-228-sa-pppoe.tpgi.com.au)
16:53:46Matt-UKfor the average joe, its become a standard
16:53:52bipak_yep
16:53:54crashdthat's what a standard is Matt
16:54:18Matt-UKnot many average joes know technical stuff about computers, let alone turning one on!
16:54:28crashdexactly
16:54:52Matt-UKbut thats probably where it will all change when the older generations die out ;)
16:55:15ashridahmp3 may be forced out of existence, but sadly, it'll be by DRM-based media, i'm betting :(
16:55:36Matt-UKWMA won't get too much further
16:56:09Matt-UKthey're on their 10th attempt already with WMA10, lol
16:56:34bipak_ashridah: why should they use DRM based media? cause longhorn wont play anything else? *g*
16:56:48ashridahit may not necessarily be wma
16:56:55Matt-UKvery true
16:56:56niobosThe sad thing about the DRM and copy-protection is: they try so hard to protect it that it won't even play anymore on "older" hardware
16:57:24ashridahif anything, it'll be the media companies that force the issue. if they make an intelligent choice and ditch cds alltogether, and make us get drm crap online, it'll be far easier for them to force the issue.
16:57:35niobosSo I found the only way to play my new (bought!) CD in the car is to rip it...
16:57:59ashridah(intelligent for them, not good for us)
16:58:02Matt-UKniobos: why thats happened because organisations like RIAA were stuck in a big black hole not taking the oppertunity to use MP3, the pirates got there first
16:58:34ashridahi just rarely buy cds anymore
16:58:34ashridahworks for me
16:58:35Matt-UKniobos: and P2P apps like napster that started the trend
16:58:52Matt-UKashridah: you a student or at school/college?
16:59:10Matt-UKi love buying CDs, but maybe thats because i have a passion for music
16:59:15preglowhaha
16:59:21preglowi try to buy all my music myself
16:59:26niobosP things... (according to the column) the polulartiy of Napster skyrocketed after the thing came in court
16:59:28preglowi can't stand just having it be files
16:59:32preglowfiles suck and get lost quickly
16:59:42*bipak_ buys vinyl records and hears only to DJ Sets :)
16:59:44ashridahstudent, currently.
17:00
17:00:02ashridahbut i'm not at a college, since those rarely exist here.
17:00:03preglowi'm listening to vinyl as we speak
17:00:04Matt-UKashridah: well, when you get money, you'll want to archive music
17:00:06preglownow there's a good format
17:00:19Matt-UKhard-drive based storage is not reliable enough to archive music
17:00:25crashdheh
17:00:36crashdthe problem is that CD's are too expensive still, at proper retail
17:00:39crashdand
17:00:40Matt-UKI've lost my music too many times
17:00:45crashdthe artists dont get the right percent cut
17:00:53crashdso all you're doing is funding massive multinationals
17:00:53bipak_yep
17:00:54ashridahMatt-UK: i already do archive music.
17:00:55crashdnot the music makers
17:01:02Matt-UKcrashd: I can get CDs here in the UK for half or 3/4's their RRP
17:01:09crashdMatt-UK: so can i
17:01:12ashridahhahahaha. cds. reliable. ahhaha. hahahahah. HASHAHA
17:01:12ashridahdude, that's hilarious. look up the degradation rate of cds sometime :)
17:01:12crashdbut the point isnt that
17:01:23crashdand cd's degrade, as ashridah points out l;0
17:01:26crashdso what to do ?
17:01:30*ashridah notes he has, currently, 3 separate, synced, copies of all of his music
17:01:41Matt-UKHDs go much quicker
17:01:50preglowashridah: now there's why i prefer vinyl!!
17:02:00niobos synced copies and offline portable HDD backup (out of sync by a week or so)
17:02:01crashdwtf
17:02:05preglowyou have to play those to degrade them, heh
17:02:06crashdH10 jr supports ogg
17:02:10crashdbut the h10 normal doesnt
17:02:13Matt-UK"The CD-R media manufacturers have performed extensive media longevity studies using these industry-defined tests and mathematical modeling techniques, with results claiming longevity from 70 years to over 200 years."
17:02:19preglowcrashd: then it probably doesn't run arm?
17:02:22ashridahand that's the way it's generally staying (music server, main pc (where new stuff goes), and my mp3 player
17:02:24Matt-UKCDs still outlive Hard-Drives :P
17:02:27crashdpreglow: i dunno :\
17:02:31crashdi havent seen much info about it yet
17:02:38 Quit niobos ("brb")
17:02:40ashridahpreglow: yeah, because something that can melt in a hot summer day is so much better :)
17:02:51preglowashridah: i don't often keep vinyl in my car...
17:02:52zehaha 70 years?
17:02:56crashdlol
17:03:09crashdcd-r's degrade in a matter of months if they arent stored in a cold, dark place
17:03:12zeor ya know 5 years till the silver's flaking off the label side and they're totally ruined
17:03:15ashridahman. i'll be about ready to marry rockbox when someone gets tone control working :)
17:03:15preglowashridah: if you actually manage to have your vinyl MELTING, you're incompetent and need to be put in
17:03:16Matt-UKtell one HD thats lasted 70 years, or even 10, lol
17:03:28 Join niobos [0] (~niels@100.193-200-80.adsl.skynet.be)
17:03:28preglowashridah: i have it working
17:03:30crashdMatt-UK: ive got hd's from 1994 with data still on them
17:03:37zethere's hd's from the 80's still alive
17:03:40crashdnot much use, for sure
17:03:45crashdbut still they work fine
17:03:46zehd's haven't been around for 70 years though
17:03:49zeand neither have cd's
17:04:02zejust because some model predicts they'll last that long doesn't mean anything
17:04:08ashridahpreglow: yeah, well, come and experience our summers sometime ;)
17:04:13thegeekwhy assume that the storage medium has to be constant
17:04:20niobosI don't mind... in about 10 years I'll say to my friends; Blu-ray, what was that?
17:04:21thegeekI keep my music on two separate hd's
17:04:24thegeekin two different machines
17:04:30thegeeknever lost anything
17:04:38Matt-UKsurge protected?
17:04:42thegeekyes
17:04:42bipak_niobos: hehe
17:04:43ashridahpreglow: gimmegimmegimmegimme. the earphones my player came with don't really give enough kick without it
17:04:45thegeekthe server is
17:04:58thegeekpoint is
17:05:01ashridah(my sennheiser's are much better, but are too bulky to wear out
17:05:09preglowashridah: i'll commit it when austriancoder commits his uda changes
17:05:11thegeekit's not unsafe to keep it on a hd
17:05:14preglowsomeone bug him
17:05:25Matt-UKthegeek: for me it is, lol
17:05:26thegeekif you just always keep a backup
17:05:28thegeekhum
17:05:29thegeekoh well
17:05:31thegeekI mean
17:05:37ashridahholy sweet bejesus i'm lagged :/
17:05:38thegeekyour house could always burn
17:05:43thegeekor someone could steal your cd's
17:05:47thegeekthat happens a lot actually
17:05:53zeyeah really the only way to ensure long-term data integrity
17:06:06thegeekwith a hd your data wont degrade
17:06:07zeis to always transfer onto a newer data storage device before the old one dies
17:06:12ashridahheh. fair enough
17:06:28preglowi quite simply just dont like tying my music to my pc
17:06:29Matt-UKze: but you never know when the older storage medium is going to die
17:06:44zeMatt-UK: yeah
17:06:47Matt-UKze: before you get the new one
17:06:47ashridahanyway, i've got to hit the sack. got stuff to organise tomorrow.
17:06:51zeMatt-UK: so always have it on a few different ones
17:07:05thegeekwhere do you live ashridah?
17:07:23ashridahMatt-UK: actually, predictive failure gear in high end equipment is very good
17:07:23ashridahand RAID can guard against sudden death
17:07:58ashridahthegeek: too fricking far away from everything :(
17:07:58ashridahit's 1am here, and bloody cold
17:08:09niobosRAID helps to protect, but won't give 100% guarantee... if both disks fail simultaniously...
17:08:17Matt-UKi do have a SCSI external RAID device :P
17:08:18thegeek;)
17:08:30niobosand I'm not making this up, I've seen 2 RAID-1 disks fail in an interval of 7 minutes...
17:08:36thegeekhehe
17:08:37thegeekfun
17:08:40thegeekthat had to be a surge
17:08:41niobosNOT fun
17:08:42Matt-UKand RAID-5 is what you need
17:08:50 Quit ashridah ("sleep.")
17:08:56niobosespecialy if that RAID-1 is the system-drive of a major mail-server...
17:09:04Matt-UKover the space of 5 disks
17:09:09Matt-UKyou won't ever lose your data :P
17:09:28niobosMatt-UK: any RAID-?? will fail if more than x drives fail simultaniously
17:09:44niobosyou can't beat Murphy...
17:09:44Matt-UKnope, if one goes, you replace it, and voila
17:09:50niobosas I said:
17:09:58niobosI've seen 2 drives fail in 7 minute interval...
17:09:59Matt-UK2 goes, possible chance of recovery
17:10:27niobosRAID-5 over 5 drives will just REDUCE the chance of data-loss; but won't make it 0
17:10:28Matt-UKniobos: if you've seen that, what makes them more reliable than CDs?
17:10:29thegeekwell
17:10:29Matt-UKlol
17:10:38thegeekthat is an extreme example niobos
17:10:42niobosI know
17:10:57thegeekthe chance of two physically separate hd's failing in that short a time is very low
17:11:03thegeekif you keep the hd's in two diff machines
17:11:09thegeekand have surge protectors on both
17:11:09niobosMy point is: RAID and backup's only REDUCE the chance of data-loss, they don't bring itdown to 0
17:11:19thegeeknothing does;)
17:11:20thegeekand I agree
17:11:26thegeekraid is not that great
17:11:36thegeekbetter to keep two hd's in two different machines
17:11:39Matt-UKRAID is better than nothing
17:11:42niobosthegeek: my setup is exactly that: 2 machines rsyncing over changes
17:11:49thegeekme too;)
17:11:53bill20r3<−−too
17:12:08thegeekthought I don't bother with rsyncing
17:12:12niobospoint is that the "backup" lags a day (could reduce that, but it'll always lag)
17:12:18thegeek*though
17:12:25thegeekwell
17:12:26*preglow is happy he doesn't have to deal with backing up :P
17:12:43thegeek;)
17:12:54niobospreglow: you just pray???
17:12:57preglowi ahtes it, i does
17:13:08preglowniobos: well, no, like i say, i've got all the music i care about on cds and vinyl as well
17:13:17preglowbecause i buy it
17:13:27Matt-UKpreglow: same here
17:14:08preglowi like having my music on a medium separate from my pc, and a lot of the artists i listen to aren't that big, so i like knowing i support them at least a bit
17:14:50linuxstbBut if you have any rare or hard-to-replace CDs, then just make copies for all your friends.
17:15:06*bipak_ backups his sourcecodes now
17:15:27bipak_on a good old floppy :p
17:15:34*niobos trusts on crontab to do that backup...
17:15:41linuxstbRelease it all as open source - let the world be your backup.
17:15:53bipak_hehe
17:16:07crashdbweerr
17:16:10nioboswell, I'm back off to the books...
17:16:14crashdmediawiki is so annoying sometimes
17:16:16 Nick niobos is now known as niobos_study (~niels@100.193-200-80.adsl.skynet.be)
17:16:35 Part preglow
17:20:33 Quit DMJC (Connection timed out)
17:20:56webguest11yikes, that cvs stuff is not for the fainthearted
17:21:24webguest11I'll stick to the daily builds
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17:21:37 Quit Matt-UK ()
17:22:05yngwiWebguest11:whats wrong with the bleeding edge builds?
17:22:19linuxstbwebguest11: The daily build is just the CVS status at 6am - so it's not really all that different.
17:22:58linuxstbThere's no extra testing for the daily builds.
17:23:20webguest11there's nothing wrong with bleeding edge, just that it seems that you need cvs to install the stuff
17:23:37webguest11but I'm out of my league here
17:24:11yngwithats not true, the bleeding edge are in a nice zipped file just to unpack on your iriver, just as the dailys
17:24:41linuxstbThe zip files are at the very bottom of this page: http://www.rockbox.org/daily.shtml
17:25:15linuxstb(one for each model of player that Rockbox runs on)
17:27:18webguest11jesus, its that simple, I searched high but obviously not low enough for that, thanks
17:27:44yngwi:-)
17:38:25***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
17:43:32niobos_studyI'm wondering: does Rockbox read ID3-tags? or does it just get the info out of it's db?
17:43:40niobos_studyin the first case: what file does the parsing?
17:44:02niobos_study(ID3 or FLAC or OGG or ...)
17:44:50amiconnrockbox reads the tags itself
17:44:59t0mashm
17:45:00t0masamiconn?
17:45:06t0masis there a difference between these 2:
17:45:07t0masinline signed short int synthVoice()
17:45:08amiconnThe database is a recent addition, and is cvompletely optional
17:45:10t0masor inline signed short int synthVoice(void)
17:45:42t0mas(asking because I don't know the inline stuff)
17:45:44amiconnniobos_study: ...which is imho A Good Thing
17:45:50niobos_studyamiconn: and what .c file does the parsing now?
17:46:05niobos_studyso I don't have to rewrite that thing for the songdb
17:46:30niobos_studyamiconn: definitely A Good Thing!
17:47:45linuxstbniobos_study: This is still under development. I think it's the mp3data.c and/or id3.c files that are reading the tags from MP3 files.
17:48:12linuxstbAt the moment, nothing apart from basic information such as length, bitrate, samplerate etc are being read from the other formats.
17:48:56niobos_studylinuxstb: firmware/id3.c? is that him?
17:49:00t0masamiconn?
17:50:13linuxstbniobos_study: Yes.
17:50:22niobos_studythx
17:50:35linuxstbThat's the code that's used on the Archos players - so it's very well tested.
17:50:54amiconnt0mas: Both declarations should be identical, however, explicitly stating 'void' is more clear
17:51:22amiconnlinuxstb: id3 parsing is there since a looong time
17:51:22t0masamiconn: yes, if you don't do it gcc gives a warning
17:51:37t0masamiconn: but... when I add void I get an error
17:51:39linuxstbamiconn: Yes, I know.
17:51:56t0masamiconn: too many arguments
17:51:59amiconnParsing other formats like apev2, vorbis comments etc is new stuff
17:52:17linuxstbSo new it hasn't even been started.
17:52:23t0masbut a function like this: "inline signed short int synthVoice()" shouldn't take any parameters right?
17:52:37amiconnt0mas: The inline has nothing to do with that, but the declaration must always match the definition
17:52:56t0masthen someone wrote a bug in the midi code
17:53:18amiconnDoesn't surprise me
17:53:18t0masit's declared there as: inline signed short int synthVoice()
17:53:23t0masand called on line 390 with: sample = synthVoice(currentVoice);
17:53:28t0maswich is impossible
17:53:35t0masand when I change the declaration to void
17:53:36amiconnyup
17:53:40t0masit ofcourse gives an error
17:53:45amiconnexactly
17:53:48t0masbefore that.. gcc doesn't notice
17:53:51pabsfoo() means any number of parameters
17:54:03pabsin ANSI C, that is
17:54:10t0mashm... but you can't use them right?
17:54:16amiconnSo the declaration is clearly wrong
17:54:28t0masyes...
17:54:36t0masbut I should first fix the error... before fixing the declaration
17:54:41pabsit should be declared foo(void) if it doesn't take any parameters
17:54:45amiconncurrentVoice is an int?
17:54:56amiconn(apart from not matching rockbox style)
17:55:12t0mashm...
17:55:15t0masI'll check
17:55:20t0masit's global anyway...
17:55:32t0masint currentVoice IDATA_ATTR;
17:55:38t0mas(global scope)
17:56:13t0masman... that file is a mess... it's declared half way through the file...
17:57:52t0mashm... it compiles when I remove the argument from the call... and make it a function(void)
17:58:09t0masand it's still using that currentVoice (it's global)
17:58:35t0masso I guess that kills the warning... and doesn't break midi
18:00
18:01:15 Quit Shagnar (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
18:02:28t0masamiconn: sorry to keep bugging you... but a signed, unsigned compare... that's wrong.. and gives a warning... can I fix the warning with casting the unsigned to signed? (can give overflow trouble?)
18:02:44t0masbut that overflow values will give problems now too...
18:03:16t0masand it would make the iriver build warning free :)
18:03:30linuxstbt0mas: That's inside libmusepack, so I think it's worth looking at it properly, and maybe changing the types of some of the variables.
18:04:07linuxstbI remember needing to do similar cleaning to libFLAC shortly after I committed it.
18:04:25linuxstbBut yes, it would be nice to remove those final warnings.
18:04:26t0masyes, I wanted to clean that
18:04:39t0masbut I'm not sure if it's a right way to just cast them..
18:05:23t0maschanging the function declaration fixes all those errors... ofcourse... but I think it was unsigned for a reason :)
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18:07:33yngwii wish i were able to help in the actual programming, but 'd have to learn c from scratch, and it's been years since my last programming attempts at school
18:07:44yngwiman, what fun that was :-)
18:08:31t0masif you liked it... then why not learn it?
18:08:47yngwibecause i don't have the time right now..
18:08:53t0masvacation comming? ;)
18:09:27yngwimaybe in july, or august, but then it would take months 'till i could do serious work...
18:10:23yngwibut I liked programming very much, it was the only technical thing i was pretty good at, which is pretty bad since it was a technical school
18:10:36t0masit won't take months...
18:10:40yngwihmm
18:11:00t0masif you have the right feeling... you can learn C in a few weeks
18:11:01yngwii tried c++ with eclipse a few months ago, but the time...
18:12:28yngwiit's a shame they didn't teach us c in school like they should, only pascal, and asm
18:13:48 Join Moos [0] (MoosCamaro@m214.net81-66-158.noos.fr)
18:14:02MoosHi all
18:14:09yngwihi
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18:17:31 Quit niobos_study ("off")
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18:18:39t0masyngwi: if you can do asm and plascal... you know how to code..
18:19:23yngwii could, 6 or 7 years ago, but yeah, i know the basics i guess
18:21:42yngwii guess, i'll give it a try in july or so..
18:22:31yngwii'd really like to be able to write plugins for rockbox, i have a few in mind..
18:23:40yngwibut of course i'd like to help with the "real" work, that needs to be done, but wouldn't i need some audio knowledge too??
18:28:26t0maswell
18:28:28t0masI don't have any ;)
18:28:56t0masI've just done some work on graphics... the wps... and the remote...
18:30:06t0masbut what are your plugin ideas? maybe I can write parts of them for you? Then add a lot of comments... so you learn from that code? (not a really good way to learn it... as I'm not the best coder you'll meet.. but it's a start)
18:31:26yngwifor example, would you think, a notepad of some kind would be impossible?
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18:32:26yngwii know, it would be petty difficult, to write something quickly, but then maybe some ideas from T9 (mobile phone) could be borrowed
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18:35:10yngwidamn, i can't remember any of the plugin ideas i had... i should have wrote them down, but i guess they come back eventually.. :-/
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19:00
19:00:28t0masyngwi: smart input was on my list too
19:00:41t0masbut I remember a GNU thing... for disabled people...
19:00:51t0masusable with just an up and down button...
19:03:53yngwiwhat do you mean?
19:04:25t0masit was some smart input system
19:05:38yngwioh, with rockbox, you need only the "joystick", but you could change that so that you only need up and down, or do i get you wrong?
19:06:57t0masyes
19:07:12markunThere are also keyboard layouts that might be more efficient: http://www.fitaly.com/fitaly/fitaly.htm
19:07:14t0masbut you don't want to scroll the whole alphabet... everytime you want to type a char
19:07:17 Part mawe
19:07:40t0masso the gnu thing (forgot the name) had a smart sorting thing...
19:07:45t0masto select needed characters first
19:09:02yngwithis is a interesting idea, to use an algorithm not only for the T9 thing, but also, which character comes next....
19:09:47yngwii'd never thought of that
19:10:58t0masme neither
19:11:08t0masI saw a disabled friend of me use it on his laptop
19:11:11markunt0mas: Was it dasher? http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/dasher/
19:11:44Shagnarhttp://www.reichelt.de/inhalt.html?SID=17smifJKwQARIAACGjQkk2e68e18f7eab28b64ea74108e59f09d5;ACTION=3;LASTACTION=2;SORT=artikel.artnr;GRUPPE=C6992;GRUPPEA=C6992;WG=0;SUCHE=usb%20kabel;ARTIKEL=AK%2520673-A;START=0;END=16;STATIC=0;FC=669;PROVID=0;TITEL=0 thats the right USB-connector cable, isn't it?
19:11:48t0masmarkun: it looks like it
19:11:55Shagnaroh sorry big link :|
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19:17:54markunI changed the noise shaper of the uda1380 from 3rd order to 5th order, but I can't hear any difference.
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19:30:43amiconnHmrf, seems my cellphone is broken :(
19:31:17yngwi:-(
19:31:56amiconnt0mas: Who the ??? is Seven? Seven of Nine? ;-)
19:32:09t0mashm? typo?
19:32:29t0masshould've been sTeven :P
19:32:33amiconnYour 16:17 commit
19:33:06t0masyes, typo
19:33:09amiconnYou can correct the comiit message in cvs, however, the message on the website will stay
19:33:17amiconn*commit
19:33:38 Quit bobTHC ("Smoke Weed Every Day !")
19:36:35t0masamiconn: just emailed it...
19:36:40t0mashis name is a few lines up too...
19:36:44t0masspelled right there
19:37:12amiconnHow do you mean, emailed?
19:37:19t0masmailinglist :)
19:37:56Shagnardoes anybody know any modding-sites for the archos jukebox multimedia ?
19:38:23amiconnAh, yes
19:38:27***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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19:53:05bill20r3anyone using an iRiver(w/ iriver firmware) on linux?
19:53:31t0masyes, I am
19:53:38SlasheriHmm, what do you mean about using on linux?
19:53:44SlasheriI don't have windows at all :)
19:54:05bill20r3well, I've read some references to a tag database tool
19:54:08t0masI have it somewhere... but it's like windows always is.. not really working :P
19:54:23bill20r3I guess it just puts the ID3 tags into some sort of dbm file?
19:54:30bill20r3I need to know what software I need.
19:55:22t0mashm.. I don't use that database
19:55:28t0masbut there was a tool for it...
19:55:57bill20r3without it you just organize your music in a file tree?
19:56:11bill20r3 /artist/album/song.mp3 style?
19:56:30t0masyes
19:56:48t0maslike: /artist/year - album/track-nr - title.mp3
19:57:00bill20r3and if you use the database, can you still organize in a file-tree like that?
19:57:32t0masdon't know... I have it sorted like this because I didn't like the iriver database thing
19:58:44bill20r3ahh.
19:58:55bill20r3I guess I'll just give it a try.
19:59:01bill20r3my player isnt' actually here yet anyway
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20:58:36t0masok, 1 warning left :)
20:58:46t0masfor simulator
20:58:51t0masiriver build is now warning free :D
20:58:51Mooscongratulations
20:59:07t0masamiconn? printf() in simulator... what header should I include?
20:59:30t0masnot stdio.h I guess?
20:59:50amiconnWhy do you want printf() ?
21:00
21:00:02Slashericrwl: now it is fixed :)
21:00:29amiconnThere is no printf() in rockbox
21:01:00t0masamiconn: simulator uses printf()
21:01:11t0masand it causes a warning... because it's not in any header
21:01:45amiconnYes... because rockbox doesn't have printf(), even not the simulators
21:02:04amiconnIt is 'macroed' out for the target builds iirc
21:02:13amiconn(for the codecs)
21:02:30amiconnI wonder what codecs to have to print at all, they're low level stuff...
21:02:36t0mas#ifdef SIMULATOR
21:02:36t0masif (log) printf("%c%02X", (effect<10)?('0'+effect):('A'+effect-10), value);
21:02:36t0mas#endif
21:02:49t0masshall I change that to DEBUGF()
21:02:57t0masthat should have the same effect on simulator?
21:02:58amiconnYes I think so
21:03:09amiconnLooks like it's debugging output
21:03:38amiconnDEBUGF() does output to the console in the simulators
21:04:22t0masyes
21:04:30amiconnThe #ifdef SIMULATOR surrounding it looks like it can go away
21:05:07amiconnOn target, DEBUGF() is an empty macros unless you're building a debug build
21:05:13t0masyes...
21:05:16amiconn(only possible for archos so far)
21:05:28t0masbut iriver builds are warning free now :D
21:05:43t0mas(unless my commit caused a new warning... but I don't think it did)
21:06:10t0masamiconn: the define's can't be removed
21:06:15t0masas the log var is simulator only
21:06:15amiconngmini builds are not... but these are different warnings, mostly because it's a 16bit arch
21:06:52t0masI can change that too... but I think the writer of the dumb thing can better do that kind of things
21:06:56amiconn3 gmini warnings are caused by me :-/ but I don't dare to touch the scheduler code with no one around to test
21:09:37 Join preglow [0] (thomj@s183a.studby.ntnu.no)
21:09:37amiconnThe fact that 'log' is simulator only is probably not caused by the original dumb code
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21:10:36t0masamiconn: no.. don't think so :)
21:10:51t0masI guess it's because printf() worked on simulator... and didn't on target
21:11:01t0masthis should change to logf() I think?
21:11:09preglowanyone ever tried making a preemptive multitasker for rockbox? :-)
21:11:16t0maslol
21:11:21*t0mas didn't :P
21:11:28amiconnpreglow: That would be a bad idea imho
21:11:51t0maspreglow: saw my email? I contacted the musepack people... and they're adding the fixes we made to their next minor release
21:12:25preglowamiconn: yes, i agree, just wondered if anyone tried
21:12:34preglowt0mas: yeah, i read it just now
21:12:57amiconnt0mas: They should rather find a way to get rid of the 64 bit multiplies
21:13:05preglowwell
21:13:08preglowthey need 64 bit multiplies
21:13:13preglowbut they're doing it in a bad way
21:13:18preglowthat's really making my job hard
21:13:44amiconnPerhaps you could try optimising flac instead? :-P
21:13:49preglowno time now
21:14:03preglowi'm up to my bloody armpits in report writing that's been neglected for too long
21:15:46t0masamiconn? DEBUGF() is defined in debug.h right?
21:16:00preglowand flac is so incredibly full of mallocs
21:16:00preglowarghhh
21:16:11amiconnt0mas: yeps... I wonder why the codecs don't get this
21:16:26t0mashm
21:16:28preglowsomeone implement logf in plugins,btw
21:16:36preglowthat would be nice
21:17:14t0masif noone has done it tomorrow... I will
21:17:20preglowdo it now, it's quickly done
21:17:28amiconnThe codecs (as well as the plugins) should never include core headers directly, apart from codec.h / plugin.h
21:17:29t0masyes, but I'm already late
21:17:42t0masamiconn: dumb doesn't include codec.h :X
21:17:58amiconnThat's... dumb :-P
21:18:03preglowbtw
21:18:20preglowi don't know if anyone saw this yesterday, but i've got a heavily updated version of dumb lying around
21:18:36preglowhttp://www.pvv.ntnu.no/~thomj/rockbox/dumb-k54-2005-06-13.tar.gz
21:18:47t0masamiconn: and debug.h isn't in codec.h
21:18:55preglowif someone starts working on dumb, please integrate this
21:18:57*amiconn points to HCl
21:19:11t0mashm? he wrote codec.h ?
21:19:13preglowhcl gave dumb a shot a month ago and promptly gave up
21:19:14preglowheh
21:19:25t0mashow dumb :P
21:19:50preglowit needs some medium fixed point massaging
21:20:05t0masamiconn: shall I add debug.h to codec.h, and then add codec.h to dumb?
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21:21:05amiconnSimply using debug.h probably won't work
21:21:09preglowARGH
21:21:21t0mashmz... including codec.h in dumb.h doesn't work either
21:21:25preglowreading flac source code is like reading a ugly c++ program gone bad
21:21:43amiconnThe codecs need to call rb->debugf() if DEBUGF() is defined, like the plugins do
21:22:14t0mashm... including debug.h works...
21:22:17t0masbut it's not the right way
21:23:15amiconnIt might work... but it *will* crash if the codec is ever run on another build than it was compiled for
21:23:35amiconn..because the function address won't match
21:23:37bollewollemkay, perhaps a dumb question, but should the playlist submenu be working for the iriver?
21:24:36t0masamiconn: how should I fix it then?
21:25:50t0masjust include debug.h anyway? and note is should be fixed?
21:26:02yngwiyes it should, if you mean where you can add a file to a playlist ect.
21:26:34amiconnIt's the same problem as making logf() available for plugins. Imho the solution should be similar to the DEBUGF() handling for plugins...
21:27:03t0masamiconn: yes, but for now?
21:27:19amiconn...which isn't perfect either, since it relies on the api pointer always being called 'rb'
21:27:24t0masjust include debug.h and note that we should start using plugin.h/codec.h and logf() ?
21:27:32bollewollewhich button should I press, because for me it is not the rec button like mentioned in the wiki http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/ButtonAssignments
21:28:34yngwiif you want to add files to a playlist, then you just press the joystickbutton on a file or folder long, then the menu should pop up
21:28:44amiconnt0mas: I would leave it as-is for now; there will be quite some changes when the codecs are separated from the plugins
21:29:06amiconn...which will hopefully happen soon
21:29:09bollewolleoooooooh, well thanks
21:29:19yngwinp
21:29:35amiconn...if only for stopping those 'I get IllInstr when I'm trying to run plugins' threads
21:30:16t0masyes...
21:30:18t0masthat would be nice
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21:38:31***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21:43:38crwlSlasheri, wheeeee :)
21:44:10preglowt0mas: wouldn't it have been more consistant to cast to mpc_int32_t
21:44:12preglow?
21:47:21t0maswell... it's used on other places
21:47:33t0masand the people in their IRC channel told me not to do that
21:48:04preglowwhy?
21:48:16preglowthe code wont work on 64 bit platforms as it is now
21:48:42t0mashm.. then I guess their other developer will ask me to change this again...
21:48:47preglowthat is
21:48:49preglowit'll prolly work
21:49:30preglowbut yeah
21:49:41preglowthe fucntion you cast returns a mpc_uint32_t
21:49:49preglowwhich is quite obviously 32 bits
21:49:54preglowint might very well be 64 bits some places
21:50:09preglowi can't imagine why they told you to use int
21:51:07preglowreading doxygen headers is so FUN!
21:51:16preglowthere are so many comments and i can't bloody see the frigging code
21:53:24preglowARGHHH
21:53:37preglowgood luck to the one who'll be optimising libflac
21:53:41preglowi sure as hell won't touch it
21:54:50preglowthe decoder struct contains just two other struct pointers, one called private, and one called protected....
21:56:23t0masc++ like?
21:58:02preglowyes
21:58:08preglowhe tries to mimic c++ with c
21:58:10preglowand he goes too far
21:59:06preglowthe code is so bloated and heinous i vow i'll never touch it
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22:04:56CoCoLUSpreglow: anything new on the bass/treble front?
22:05:52preglowCoCoLUS: nag austriancoder, i'm not going to duplicate his work
22:08:35yngwiyou know his adress? i guess he lives in austria, i can visit him and give him a nice *motivation* :-)
22:09:14CoCoLUSas could i
22:09:19CoCoLUSlot of austrians here it seems :P
22:09:35yngwi:-)
22:09:40 Join bipak [0] (~bip@p5088505E.dip.t-dialin.net)
22:09:44preglowit's just a small, small patch
22:10:02preglowbut he said he'd implemented the functions i need, so i wont duplicate his work
22:10:31yngwiyeah, sure, i can wait, though it is hard :-)
22:10:36CoCoLUSok... but where is he? :)
22:10:59yngwimaybe on holidays with linus?
22:11:46Moosyngwi: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/ChristianGmeiner
22:12:46Moosif you want mail he
22:13:54yngwihehe, thanks though i think it's not neccessary :-)
22:14:01 Quit matsl_ (Remote closed the connection)
22:14:46Moosunfortunatly he had got problems with his iriver
22:14:56yngwiyeah, i forgot..
22:15:10yngwithats bad for him
22:15:10Moos:(
22:15:26Moosyes very bad
22:15:42yngwii have mine since 2 weeks, but couldn't live without it anymore..
22:16:24Moosme 1 years 1/2 and it works daily since the begining ;)
22:16:25yngwii bought it just in time, so i didn't have to bother with the iriver firmware :-)
22:16:48Moos:)
22:17:49yngwihas any of you a iskin??
22:18:00Stryke`i do
22:18:14yngwiis the dust attracting factor very annoying??
22:18:17Mooshere too arctic for my 140
22:18:38yngwi'caus i'd like to buy one, i dont like the original case
22:18:50yngwiebony (the black)
22:19:41Stryke`i have carbon and the dust is not very annoying
22:20:11yngwihmm because they mentioned it in some misticriver threads..
22:20:22yngwihow do you like it?
22:20:23Mooswith ebony and rushed colors dusts apear most
22:20:34yngwiyeah, i thought so..
22:20:40Moosit's cause i bought arctic ;)
22:20:47yngwihehe
22:20:53Moosdon't apear
22:21:02Stryke`lately, the case has been a little annoying because there's no access to the reset in the iskin, but its perfect for all other uses
22:21:31yngwihmm, i guess i'll get one next month..
22:21:31 Quit Nibbler (Connection timed out)
22:21:46MoosStyke: you can pierce it a litle
22:21:54Moosit's just fine
22:22:04Stryke`yeah, i contemplated
22:25:46 Quit bipak_ (Success)
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22:36:33preglowgOTTA GO
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22:50:16Bagdert0mas: nice work on the warning killing actions
22:51:07BagderSlasheri: I _really_ think you should write stubs for the sim, and stop polluting the code with #ifndef SIMULATOR all over
22:52:41SlasheriBagder: Hmm, that is a good idea.. :)
22:53:02Bagder:-)
22:53:09SlasheriI should do that ;)
22:55:11SlasheriHmm.. should i add the stubs to playback.c because pcm_playback.c is not included in simulator build at all?
22:56:30Bagderyou could add a new file in uisim/common/ for them
22:56:45SlasheriAh, ok :)
22:56:46Bagderor as you suggested, whatever
23:00
23:05:01MoosHi Slasheri/Bagder
23:05:01 Join linuxstb [0] (~linuxstb@dsl-212-23-31-215.zen.co.uk)
23:05:21MoosSlasheri: what's about your bug list?
23:06:12linuxstbDoes anyone have any objections to moving the metadata parsing code from playback.c into (e.g.) apps/metadata.c ?
23:06:22 Join LinusN [0] (~linus@labb.contactor.se)
23:06:42SlasheriMoos: It looks now much more better than few days ago :) But still there is some bugs that should be fixed soon
23:06:48Bagderlinuxstb: no, it sounds like a fine move
23:06:51Slasherihi LinusN :)
23:07:01LinusNyo
23:07:08linuxstbBagder: OK, I'll do it now.
23:07:28Slasherilinuxstb: i think metadata.c would be ok
23:09:45SlasheriMoos: if you could find any bugs that can cause crash (except plugin loading during audio playback), please tell me/somebody. Currently i don't know any critical bugs
23:10:43 Join wlad [0] (wlad@200.139.140.149)
23:10:49Stryke`what about the last 20 second issue brought up at misticriver?
23:11:20SlasheriStryke`: that will be fixed. The reason is known and solution being worked on :)
23:11:32Stryke`excellent
23:13:51CoCoLUSis anyone working on file tree display on the remote?
23:15:00Slasherii think t0mas is working on that. but now i have to go, sleep well :) ->
23:15:13MoosSlasheri a ok, thanks it's fine
23:15:25MoosBonsoir Linus
23:15:39LinusNbonsoir Moos
23:15:40 Quit Harpy (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
23:16:05 Quit hardeep ("BitchX-1.0c19 -- just do it.")
23:16:16Moostu passes de bonnes vacances? ;)
23:17:12ShagnarLinusN tu parles francais?
23:17:31Mooshe speaks few languages
23:17:55Plugh_I speak English. :)
23:17:56CoCoLUSund keiner kann deutsch :P
23:17:58LinusNMoos: nah, il pleut
23:18:05Moos:(
23:18:07Plugh_and a little German
23:18:16Plugh_a very little French and Spanish
23:18:30Plugh_just enough to get me in trouble
23:18:32LinusNich kann deutsch verstehen
23:18:43Plugh_Ja, ich auch
23:18:53CoCoLUSnett
23:19:15Slasherihehe, suomea ei taidakaan kovin moni ymmrt ;)
23:19:33Moos:)
23:19:34CoCoLUSnot that it matters much, seeing how much of computer/technology related terms are english in foreign languages as well
23:20:04yngwiOJA ICH ABER SCHON
23:20:29Mooswaoh lots of languages here :)
23:20:34Plugh_verstehen? schreiben? sprechen? Ich verstehe Deutsch besser aus ich schreibe oder sprech es
23:20:40yngwiMoos: und ich lern grad latein :-)
23:20:41Plugh_I know I mangled that
23:20:48CoCoLUSyes you did.
23:21:07LinusNyngwi: odi profanum vulgus et arceo
23:21:17CoCoLUSugh how i hated those 2 years
23:21:29Moosyngwi: latin and french are a bit similary ;)
23:21:35yngwiuh, hmm what could that mean..
23:21:46Plugh_I had a year of Latin
23:21:51LinusNerrare humanum est, sed per omnium miscere, dator necessitus est
23:22:26CoCoLUShmm
23:22:28yngwihehe i did understand that :-)
23:22:30LinusNto err is human, but to really screw things up you need a compiter
23:22:38LinusNcomputer
23:22:45pabscase in point
23:22:52Shagnarich verstehe auch deutsch :P
23:22:57pabs:(
23:23:01ShagnarLinusN which langs do you know?
23:23:18LinusNenglish, german, french, italian
23:23:24LinusNand latin
23:23:33Moosand swedish of course
23:23:44tvelocitywow
23:23:47LinusNbut i suck at italian and german
23:24:04CoCoLUSit's quite surprising how many ppl are able to write latin considering it's a "dead language"
23:24:09LinusNi leraned german by reading 64'er
23:24:36 Join preglow [0] (thomj@s183a.studby.ntnu.no)
23:24:54MoosSlasheri: I updating last bleeding eges for tests, if i find things t will tell you
23:26:05preglowsomeone please shoot me
23:26:11LinusNgee, it's really a pain to go from 8mbit/s to 56k
23:26:20*LinusN shoots preglow between the eyes
23:26:23preglowLinusN: i'll go from 100mbit to 28k8 in two weeks
23:26:37preglowimagine the transition
23:26:40LinusNpreglow: then i would shoot myself :-)
23:26:58preglowyes, there's always the risk of that happening
23:27:12preglowi'll prolly move to some adsl capable place in not too long
23:27:25linuxstbSlasheri: Did you mean to put #ifndef _AUDIO_H at the top of apps/playback.h ?
23:27:27CoCoLUSyou should consider yourself lucky for even having 100mbit for some time
23:27:29preglowusing internet seriously on 28k8 is impossible
23:27:34preglowCoCoLUS: i do
23:28:47preglowsomeone please finish my gapless mp3 code
23:28:53preglowi can't stand gaps :/
23:30:02Plugh_maybe after adding mp3 headers to recording splits. ;)
23:34:17 Quit Chamois (" Like VS.net's GUI? Then try HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-")
23:35:02Shagnargn8 guys happy working :)
23:35:24linuxstbSlasheri: Another question: pcm_crossfade_start is a void function, but you check the return value in the audio_next function in playback.c (!pcm_crossfade_start)
23:36:22MoosSlasheri: wonderfull works still thanks; playlist work great now, FF/RW works beter idem for paused....
23:38:34***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:38:35preglowSlasheri: now for something completely different, does kihelm mean anything in finnish?
23:38:56preglow"a with umlaut", utf8 is biting me
23:39:02 Part wlad
23:42:42 Join spiralout [0] (~keep_goin@p54B386E7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
23:43:29Slasheripreglow: yes it does, but i think you mean "kihelmid" that is a verb and means itch/tingle
23:43:47Slasherilinuxstb: it's not void anymore :)
23:43:54SlasheriMoos: great
23:44:06Slasherilinuxstb: i will add the ifdef tomorrow :)
23:44:26Slasherinow really nights ;)
23:44:35preglowSlasheri: no, i mean what i said, it's the name of an album i have
23:44:43preglowaight, nitey
23:44:50Slasheriah, weird..
23:44:54linuxstbSlasheri: I'll just change the #ifdef to say _PLAYBACK_H - I assume that's what you meant to do.
23:44:55preglowmade by a finn
23:44:55preglowheh
23:44:56Slasheriit doesn't make much sense
23:46:06Slasheribut i doubt it means that itch or nothing ;)
23:46:31preglowhehe
23:46:34preglowdoesn'tmatter
23:46:54 Quit Shagnar ("( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 3.81 :: www.XLhost.de )")
23:46:55preglowi didn't expect it to mean anything anyway
23:47:03 Quit Rori ()
23:47:10Slasheri:)
23:48:18Mooshh scuse we we don't leave you to sleep :)
23:48:35Slasheri;D
23:48:39 Join ghode|afk [0] (~dude@host-212-158-232-155.bulldogdsl.com)
23:48:44Slasheribut now i have to go no matter what ;) ->
23:48:49ghode|afkhi, got a small "bug" i think
23:49:07MoosSlasheri: ;-)
23:50:30ghode|afkwhen i load up rockbox sometimes, the player gives no sound output. it loads up the wps screen, and the progress bar moves, but no sound appears, the only way to get it back is to go into the iriver firmware, exit, and then load rockbox back up again.
23:52:02preglowhmm
23:52:11preglowthere's another guy having that problem as well
23:52:15preglowbut i've never encountered it
23:53:54ghode|afkit's only just started happening the last few days. had a similar problem when mp3 playback was first implemented, but it seemed fix until now
23:55:54 Join mrlala [0] (~mistame@cpe-66-75-129-164.san.res.rr.com)

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