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#rockbox log for 2005-07-25

00:00:08Cassandrapreglow: I don't think Rockbox looks bad.
00:00:19preglowi think it looks minimal and rough
00:00:22preglowjust like foobar
00:00:23CassandraDefinitly room for improvement, but ...
00:01:14CassandraSomehow the lack of shiny graphics bothers me less on an embedded device.
00:02:01CassandraAlthough I think most winamp skin designs (and the new graphical wps files people are producing) look pretty horrid.
00:02:03preglowseldom bothers me at all, just requires a couple of hours of getting used to it, after that i dont even notice the looks anymore
00:02:10preglowoh yes, they do
00:03:01CassandraDon't know why no-one's managed to produce a minimalistically stylish WPS yet.
00:03:19CassandraI guess no Rockbox users are decent graphic designers.
00:03:23Cassandra(I know I'm not.)
00:03:34uskipersonnally i don't care about the graphics
00:03:41uskias long as it does what it is supposed to do
00:03:42uski;)
00:03:50ColdtoastI was going to work on a new image WPS but I can't be bothered
00:04:01ColdtoastI like mine too much as it is so simple
00:04:22Coldtoastp
00:04:36Coldtoasthttp://www.users.on.net/~edan/edan/1.jpg is all it is
00:05:27ColdtoastI agree with you. I don't think any of the image wps I've seen look particularly designed
00:05:36uskiColdtoast, which mp3 player do u use ?
00:05:42uskiiRiver ?
00:05:45Coldtoasth140
00:05:47Coldtoastyeah
00:05:49ColdtoastLOVE it
00:06:07uski:)
00:06:44Coldtoastit's so great too that a player can end up far better than the designers intended a year on from when it was released
00:07:53uskii am very impressed by one thing: the grayscale lib on archoses
00:08:03uskiit's incredible to display grayscale on a B&W LCD
00:08:06CassandraI think I may add replaygain support when I get around to re-encoding all my stuff in wavpack.
00:08:12uskiin fact, the thing is to think doing it
00:08:15Coldtoastpreglow got 16 shades of grey out of the 2 bit h140 tho :)
00:08:17uskibecause everybody knows the principle
00:08:21Cassandra(If I ever do.)
00:08:54preglowcoldtoast, no, amiconn did that
00:09:00preglowbut i gotta go, later all
00:09:00Coldtoastoh. was it?
00:09:01Coldtoastok
00:09:02 Join Jborn [0] (~Jborn@dsl017-022-247.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net)
00:09:05 Quit preglow ("CGI:IRC")
00:09:12Coldtoastprops to amiconn
00:09:23amiconnI'm currently working on the greyscale lib
00:09:29amiconn(archos first)
00:09:29 Join leftright [0] (~5087f7f0@labb.contactor.se)
00:09:43uskiyera i know :)
00:09:52amiconnTransforming it to the new, unified gfx api, and adding sort-of double buffering
00:09:59CassandraWhat are props anyway?
00:10:09leftrightI replaygained all 37gigs two days ago, left foobar overnight with the task :)
00:10:19uskiamiconn: it is funny because rockbox is becoming a full featured small OS
00:10:22amiconnI just have the first test version. Good thing: it doesn't crash.
00:10:28uskinow we have a gfx layer, ...
00:10:32amiconnBad thing: graphics are all messed up
00:11:15amiconnDouble buffering will hopefully allow big fun on the archos....
00:11:19Coldtoastprops=thanks
00:11:42uskiamiconn: on the archos the problem is that we don't have a VSYNC
00:12:02amiconnThere is no vsync on the h1x0 either
00:12:07uskiyea
00:12:19uskiso i suppose there is also the ickish "noise" moving band
00:12:37amiconnThe noise band is way less visible for at least 3 reasons
00:13:11amiconn(1) I'm not flicking between black & white, but between 2 adjacent native LCD shades
00:13:42amiconn(2) The data transfer is much faster (parallel hookup), so the interference with the transfer gets smaller
00:13:58amiconn(3) The LCD is sloooowww. This is actually helpful here
00:14:10uskiinteresting...
00:14:14Coldtoasthey. won't temperature differences affect all that amiconn?
00:14:39amiconnYes, you can get steady display on the archos too - in winter, outside :)
00:14:48uskiyea
00:14:49ColdtoastI thought temperature affected the speed the LCD updates somewhat
00:14:51*uski agree
00:15:01uskicolder = slower = better here
00:15:07Coldtoastheh. yet another reason I love Winter
00:15:20uskigotta try the grayscale plugin in the fridge
00:15:23uski(seriously)
00:16:00*amiconn wonders what happens in the new grayscale lib...
00:16:24amiconnMy graphics look like japanese writing - sortof
00:21:26 Part leftright
00:25:54 Quit JoeBorn (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:26:42uskimaybe a problem with your page flipping
00:26:47uskiyour "double buffering"
00:29:22amiconnWay simpler problem - I didn't use the correct variable in *one* single place
00:32:47amiconnNow it works ... drawing operations are *way* faster than before :)
00:34:45 Join ]RowaN[ [0] (a2b0y@82-43-212-52.cable.ubr10.newm.blueyonder.co.uk)
00:35:00 Join austriancoder [0] (~5078751e@labb.contactor.se)
00:35:03austriancoderhi all
00:35:21]RowaN[guys im trying to centre a line of text in the wps, but when i add %ac before or after it, the line is just blank instead of displaying any text
00:36:11]RowaN[e.g. %actest just shows a blank line
00:36:17Coldtoasttry this
00:36:24Coldtoast%ac%t0test
00:36:25austriancoderdoes anybody know a guitar-chord-finding tool for linux?
00:36:44Coldtoastno idea if that'll make any diff
00:37:19Coldtoastor how about test%ac?
00:37:36]RowaN[no change
00:37:41Coldtoastok
00:37:44]RowaN[like i say, before OR after, still blank
00:38:23]RowaN[%ac%s works, displays the songtitle, centred.. but normal text (i.e. not pulled from a musicfile tags) just disappears
00:38:59ColdtoastI got the same thing, if that's any consolation. heh
00:39:10]RowaN[yeah, im not going mad then
00:39:23ColdtoastI'd forgotten about it
00:45:21 Join memmem [0] (~user@p54A23F66.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
00:48:06]RowaN[rockbox just crashed on me: I03 AddrErr @ 31022f00 (dunno if thats useful to anyone)
00:48:11]RowaN[i was listening to a flac file at the time
00:48:54 Join TCK [0] (TCK@81-86-96-91.dsl.pipex.com)
00:56:37]RowaN[always happens at same point in the track
00:57:19austriancoderupload the trak anywhere, put a note with link into wiki and hope it get fixed
00:58:25]RowaN[hmm i dont have any webspace
00:58:29]RowaN[its a 34mb flac
00:59:25]RowaN[Whats Up 2004 - DJ Miko, level 8 flac compression
01:00
01:00:06uski]RowaN[, take an extract of the track
01:00:12uskiand see if it still crashs with the extract
01:00:21uskiis yes you may end up with a 0,3mbytes file ;)
01:00:29]RowaN[k
01:00:29uskijust with the problematic point
01:00:48uskii think that i'll be able to host the file for you then
01:00:59uski(i have a _small_ webspace)
01:01:39 Join webguest94 [0] (~d5035dd2@labb.contactor.se)
01:06:05]RowaN[nah i dont have cooledit anymore
01:06:45]RowaN[bah
01:06:45]RowaN[even
01:07:21t0masaustriancoder? how's fm support going?
01:07:58austriancodert0mas: i have posted a i2c patch in patchtracker.. all other suff is away.. hd head crash
01:08:12t0masshit
01:08:23t0masI've read the i2c thing... was more general than just rockbox right?
01:15:45]RowaN[i made the wav a bit smaller (using winamp wav out) .. 13mb .. and when i turn it into flac it plays fine without crashing rockbox
01:16:53austriancoder]RowaN[: i can make you tomorrow a ftp-account to upload the whole broken file
01:17:09]RowaN[ok cool, i'll be here 2moro
01:17:40austriancoderfine
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01:38:59 Quit Moos (" Like VS.net's GUI? Then try HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-")
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01:56:18***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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02:00
02:08:15pikeI find this extremely entertaining: http://forum.inmatrix.com/index.php?showtopic=2256&st=0
02:12:29 Nick CBM-away is now known as CheeseBurgerMan (~BurgerBoy@208.170.225.85)
02:15:57 Quit memmem ("ERC Version 5.0.3 $Revision: 1.726.2.17 $ (IRC client for Emacs)")
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02:33:52 Join DarkkOne [0] (~chatzilla@66.68.93.2)
02:37:20DarkkOneDoes anyone here know if the replaygain defaults to track-gain if there's no album gain tags present on the files?
02:40:05t0masno idea
02:42:14DarkkOneAlright
02:42:17DarkkOneHrmph
02:42:47DarkkOneI have like, 1500 MP3s from OCremix that really wouldn't benefit from albumgain, and then about 350 oggs from my own CDs that would. =/
02:43:46DarkkOneAh well
03:00
03:05:49 Nick CheeseBurgerMan is now known as CBM-away (~BurgerBoy@208.170.225.85)
03:43:38 Nick CBM-away is now known as CheeseBurgerMan (~BurgerBoy@208.170.225.85)
03:56:19***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
04:00
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05:00
05:24:14 Join amiconn_ [0] (~jens@p54BD6F92.dip.t-dialin.net)
05:35:45 Join Malnilion [0] (~Malnilion@dpc6682033157.direcpc.com)
05:40:43Malnilionjust out of curiosity, if you guys were gonna buy an iRiver h120 where would you get it from?
05:40:52 Quit BBub (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
05:42:24CheeseBurgerManMalnilion: Wherever was the cheapest.
05:42:42 Quit amiconn (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
05:42:42 Nick amiconn_ is now known as amiconn (~jens@p54BD6F92.dip.t-dialin.net)
05:42:44Malnilionproblem is I can't seem to find it anywhere
05:42:46CheeseBurgerManWhich is probably Ebay.
05:42:49CheeseBurgerManIf anywhere.
05:44:08crwli think i saw them on sale at www.mp3-store.de
05:44:13crwlor were those h140s?
05:45:31Malnilionall I know is that for such an apparently awesome player I can't seem to find it anywhere
05:52:28Coldtoastthere's a reason for that
05:56:21***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
05:56:27ColdtoastI have a h140 I'll swap for a 60GB ipod photo
05:56:30Coldtoastheh
05:56:50Coldtoastplus cash, of course
05:57:16ColdtoastI'd prolly only want $50US tho
06:00
06:04:30 Quit cYmen_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
06:17:25HClwhy would you do that?
06:17:43 Join edx [0] (edx@p54A8DE50.dip.t-dialin.net)
06:17:46HCloh right
06:17:57HClyou have an ipod and you'd swap it for an h140
06:18:00*HCl needs to wake up
06:19:52Coldtoastno
06:20:11ColdtoastI mean I'd swap my h140 for a 60GB ipod colour + $50
06:20:14Coldtoastyou were right the first time
06:20:19Coldtoastit was a joke
06:20:50Coldtoastcos ppl without a h140 would think "WTF?!?! That's a rotten deal for me, an ipod owner!"
06:21:07Coldtoastto which I'd reply "Heh. You don't own a h140 tho"
06:21:44Coldtoastso they have the wrong idea about who's betting the better end of the deal :)
06:23:16ColdtoastJust before I die, I'm creating myself a kickass playlistand putting my player on REPEAT so when they bury me, I have something decent to listen to for 24-29hrs
06:23:47Coldtoasthave these onlookers staring at disbelief as I do it, saying "That's CRAZY! I had no IDEA those things had OTF playlists!!"
06:23:59Coldtoasterm, in disbelief
06:25:57HCl?
06:26:06HClwhy would you trade an h140 for an ipod color?
06:26:14Coldtoastit was a joke
06:26:17HClah
06:26:17Coldtoastdoesn't matter. heh
06:26:19HClo.o
06:26:22ColdtoastI wouldn't
06:26:27HClme neither, heh.
06:26:34HClipod doesn't even have radio
06:26:52ColdtoastI chose ipod photo 60GB cos they're the most expensive ipods
06:27:08Coldtoastand ppl seem to think nothing is worth as much as an ipod photo
06:27:16HClah :p
06:27:33Coldtoastit'd be cool to check out ipodlinux tho. And if Rockbox DOES ever get ported, that'll be awesome
06:27:40HClmmm.
06:28:20ColdtoastI'm actually thinking of getting my h140 chromed
06:28:36Coldtoasthave to find out if it's possible with the magnesium alloy it's made of tho
06:29:42Coldtoastwhen I was at the gym the other day, a guy I know had his girlfriend's ipod mini
06:29:48ColdtoastI'd never really held one
06:29:54Coldtoasthad an iskin
06:30:07Coldtoastbut it occurred to me that they're really not that small
06:30:22Coldtoastthey're not THAT much smaller than my h140
06:30:25HClyea, the chrome thing was done on misticriver, i think..
06:30:33HClthey can't be, cause of the harddisk
06:30:33Coldtoastand they're also not much lighter AT ALL
06:30:53HClharddisks barely come smaller than 1.8"
06:30:58Coldtoastyeah
06:31:02HClyou can get 4gb cf harddisk
06:31:07HClbut those are hell expensive
06:31:07HClheh
06:31:11Coldtoastdunno how much I trust them to be honest
06:31:21HClhm?
06:31:25ColdtoastI had a 2.2GB Microdrive that was dead the day after I bough tit
06:31:40HClo.o
06:31:41HClwow.
06:31:46ColdtoastMicrostar
06:31:53Coldtoastbought it off of ebay
06:31:58HClsecond hand?
06:31:59HClor new?
06:32:04Coldtoastnew
06:32:10HClno warranty?
06:32:19Coldtoastsent it back and they happily gave me a full refund
06:32:22HClgood
06:32:25ColdtoastI'm in Australia, they're in the US
06:32:29Coldtoastso yeah. was good
06:32:49ColdtoastI was using it in my camera. Worked nicely (SWALLOWED the battery)
06:33:10Coldtoastsecond day, I turn my camera on and the drive continually cycles power
06:33:37Coldtoastsat there going vvvvvvvvVVVVVUUUPPP!... vvvvvvvvVVVVVUUUPPP!... vvvvvvvvVVVVVUUUPPP!...
06:35:23Coldtoastleft my machine on all night replaygaining all my music
06:35:53HCli haven't kept up with rockbox.. been pretty busy...
06:36:06Coldtoastah. busy is good tho
06:36:12HClmeh.
06:36:27HClits mostly annoying people taking my time.
06:36:28Coldtoastbusy is good if it's good-busy
06:36:39HClmixed with playing-games busy
06:37:11Coldtoastah. well that sux. I keep getting calls to help ppl fix their computers over the damn phone and I have this rotten flu. can hardly talk. it's tiring having to talk
06:37:53Coldtoastreceived a phonecall from my boss too asking me to work tonight but I couldn't
06:38:05Coldtoastever heard of Kostya Tzyu?
06:38:11Coldtoastthe boxer?
06:38:28HClnope..
06:38:31Coldtoastok
06:38:41HCli don't really care for celebreties
06:38:51Coldtoasthe was world champ in his division. not at the moment tho I don't think
06:38:58HClsince they're just plain people and i don't see what the big fuss is about
06:38:59Coldtoastthey absolutely LOVE the guy here in Australia
06:39:01HClaha
06:39:19HClwhat about him?
06:39:33Coldtoastwe have him in at work tonight
06:39:38HClaha
06:39:42HClwhat kind of work do you do?
06:39:48Coldtoast$65 a ticket to see him
06:39:51ColdtoastSecurity
06:39:56HClah..
06:40:25ColdtoastIkind athink "What does HE need security for? I'm sure he can sort any trouble out himself"
06:40:27Coldtoastheh
06:40:37Coldtoasterm, "I kinda think"
06:40:54HClgheh
06:40:56HClguns?
06:41:25Coldtoasteven tho I'm probably 50Kg heavier than him, I KNOW he'd murder me in a fight :)
06:41:28Coldtoastmaybe I guess
06:42:23HClgheh.
06:45:32Coldtoastthis firmware I paid for for my router
06:45:47Coldtoastit resets the router on about 99% of all changes you make
06:46:20HClheh
06:46:27Coldtoastwent and asked why and they said they got SO many ppl saying their settings weren't "sticking" that they thought "To hell with it! Reset on changes"
06:47:02Coldtoasteven adding a service to the blocked services list needs a reset
06:54:47Coldtoasthmmm. think I should use port forwarding or port triggering?
06:55:20Coldtoastport triggering seems kinda flaky
06:59:25 Quit Coldtoast (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
07:00
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07:20:47 Quit CheeseBurgerMan ("I want to know God's thoughts... the rest are details. -Albert Einstein")
07:36:48 Part courtc ("Leaving")
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08:00
08:27:56Coldtoasthey. nice updae to the peak meters it seems
08:28:19Coldtoastif it was a bit faster to updae, it'd be realtime
08:31:24CoCoLUSdoes the peak meter use a lot of cpu?
08:31:33CoCoLUSi mean, is it noticeable?
08:32:36Coldtoastwhen playing MP3s, it runs at 48MHz more than 120 here
08:32:47Coldtoastwith peak meters on
08:34:47Coldtoastit's cool tho. you can now see the peak meters' relation to the sound :) just a bit of leg
08:35:00Coldtoastlag
08:35:01Coldtoasthaha
08:39:48CoCoLUSwell i think they're kind of pointless anyway, during playback...
08:40:07CoCoLUSfor recording, ok, but what use are they while playing music?
08:40:23zeCoCoLUS: its nice to see stuff going on
08:40:34zeCoCoLUS: same as any music visualization
08:40:35CoCoLUShm
08:41:06zemotion is fun to watch, especially when it coincides with your music
08:48:30 Join CheeseBurgerMan [0] (~BurgerBoy@tc2-225-085.altelco.net)
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09:00:20 Nick CheeseBurgerMan is now known as CBM-away (~BurgerBoy@tc2-225-085.altelco.net)
09:00:50 Join DreamTactix291 [0] (~dreamtact@adsl-146-144-44.bna.bellsouth.net)
09:11:20 Join Lear [0] (~chatzilla@h143n1c1o285.bredband.skanova.com)
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09:54:22 Join Coldt0ast [0] (~edan@ppp111-3.lns1.hba1.internode.on.net)
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10:14:39 Quit Lear ("Chatzilla 0.9.68.5 [Firefox 1.0.6/20050720]")
10:24:51 Join leftright [0] (~5087d821@labb.contactor.se)
10:26:49leftrightoutstanding, I really like the raplaygain implementation, I eagerly await it for mp3
10:27:42Coldtoasterr
10:27:46Coldtoastit's there fo rMP3
10:28:10Coldtoastisn't that what the first Replaygain was?
10:28:13Coldtoastfor MP3?
10:28:55Coldtoastor was it just initial support for replaygain?
10:29:12Coldtoasthmm. maybe it was
10:35:15Coldtoasthey leftright
10:35:22Coldtoastdo you have a few oggs there?
10:40:55leftrightno I dont have any ogg files, my entire 37gig collection is in mp3 :)
10:41:50Coldtoastok
10:42:06leftrightI looked at the build descriptions and its for wavpack and ogg so far
10:42:27leftrightbut I guess its just a matter of time, its ok no hurry
10:46:32Coldtoastdefinitely
11:00
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11:07:04 Part leftright
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11:13:18DarkkOneDoes anyone in here know what the "prevent clipping" menu option that was added with replaygain actually does?
11:30:29*HCl needs to check out a recent build..
11:30:49DarkkOneSome of the new stuff is pretty nice
11:35:55HClmmm
11:36:01HCli need to work on the runtime database a bit
11:36:12HClbut my gf and games have been eating all my time
11:40:46DarkkOneI knew how that was until a short time ago.
11:40:50ashridahclearly you'll have to give up the gf then. thegames are far more important ;)
11:42:08DarkkOneOut of curiousity, anyone know if there's something in the way of FLAC tags that's complicated, or just a matter of nobody doing the gruntwork?
11:42:28DarkkOne'cuz if it's the latter, I may see if it's something I could handle.
11:43:46CassandraI suspect it's a matter of no-one doing the gruntwork.
11:44:27DarkkOneI figured that was likely since they're just supposed to be vorbiscomments, and those work with ogg/vorbis files already.
11:44:43CoCoLUShttp://flac.sourceforge.net/documentation.html#format
11:44:47CoCoLUSdoesn't seem to complicated
11:44:57CoCoLUS+o
11:47:00CoCoLUSvorbiscomments, indeed
11:49:07 Quit DreamTactix291 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
11:51:28t0mas<HCl> but my gf and games have been eating all my time <−− known problem
11:51:36t0masbut I don't play that much games
11:51:53DarkkOneMaybe someone should work on a patch for that then, t0mas
11:51:57ColdtoastI'm prettu much over games myself
11:52:10DarkkOneBRB, I seem to require a reboot.
11:52:21ColdtoastI had an x800 that died and can't be bothered buying a replacement
11:52:21t0masDarkkOne: can't be done :)
11:52:24Coldtoastusing my old ti4200
11:52:33 Quit DarkkOne (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
11:52:36*t0mas has a radeon 9600XT
11:52:44t0masbut it's useless here
11:52:47Coldtoastthe x800 sure was fast tho
11:53:08t0masnot much games... haven't even compiled openGL support for my X server
11:53:20Coldtoastheh
11:53:55Coldtoastyou know, I had SO many ppl telling he I'd never get 3d acceleration working under Linux with my x800
11:54:18ashridahnevar. NEVAR! AHAHAHAHAHAHH!
11:54:19ColdtoastI'd go into chans, ask if anybody had installed one and get nothing but "haha! goo dluck!"
11:54:21ashridah:)
11:54:43Coldtoastbut in reality, it was frigging easy
11:54:54ashridahyeah, we have a healthy amount of skeptisism when it comes to ati's support :)
11:55:04Coldtoasthe
11:55:19Coldtoastwith glxgears, I was getting around 350fps
11:55:37Coldtoastthen got the drivers for the x800 installed and it ewnt up to 7000fps
11:55:38ashridahmostly because largish chunks of ati's lineup aren't supported, unlike nvidia, who support all boards based on their reference design (aka, all but a few)
11:55:47*ashridah nods
11:55:48Coldtoastyeah
11:55:48 Join DarkkOne [0] (~chatzilla@cpe-66-68-93-2.austin.res.rr.com)
11:56:09ColdtoastI think I only get something like 2000fps with this ti4200
11:56:17Coldtoastbut I'm not a gamer
11:56:20ashridahthe main problem ati's drivers have been facing are non-3d related features, and stability in various games.
11:56:28Coldtoastso for what I need the card for, the ti4200 is fast enough
11:56:30***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
11:56:52ashridahi get about 4800fps with this GF4ti4800.
11:56:59ColdtoastI'm definitely going nVidia tho when I do upgrade
11:57:05ashridahnot that glxgears is a good benchmark
11:57:16ColdtoastI should try again. I can;t remember how many I got to be honest
11:57:42Coldtoastyeah. I know. But I was using ti as a quick way to see if hardware 3d acceleration was enabled
11:57:43DarkkOneWasn't the Ti series of 4's the ones that could be outperformed by some of the higher end 3-series?
11:57:58t0mas14024 frames in 5.0 seconds = 2804.800 FPS
11:58:07Coldtoastthe ti4x00 was a GREAT card
11:58:22ashridahDarkkOne: not to my knowledge, but that'd be unsurprising, if you got a low end ti, and a high end gf3
11:58:24DarkkOneWere the MXs the bad ones then?
11:58:32 Join uski [0] (uski@62.147.8.119)
11:58:41ashridahthe MX's were the ones with majorly cut down memory bandwidth
11:58:42Coldtoastdon't think any of the 3 series outperformed even the lowest end 4 series
11:58:44DarkkOneI just know one of the 4-series had a slightly faster core than the 3-series, but didn't have as advanced of shader features.
11:58:48Coldtoastyeah. the MX were SHOCKING
11:59:00DarkkOneLike, completely lacking pixel shaders.
11:59:02Coldtoastas was the first FX series
11:59:07ashridahand iirc, didn't support the full range of shaders, yeah
11:59:13Coldtoastyeah. the GF4MS wasn't even a GF4
11:59:22DarkkOneThat's right, then I had a Ti.
11:59:23ashridah(well, full at the time. it's not like ANY gf4 supports shaders 2.0 )
11:59:23Coldtoasterr. GF4MX
11:59:29DarkkOneIt was a while ago, I was trying to remember 'cuz I know a friend had one, and I had the other.
11:59:33Coldtoastthe ti were the good ones, yeah
11:59:55Coldtoastthe new t800 or whatever it is is supposed to be stupidly fast
12:00
12:00:01DarkkOneYeah
12:00:01Coldtoasterm... 7800
12:00:02ashridahthe ti's were also good value for money, given that the next set up were pretty crappy, AND expensive.
12:00:21ashridahtook the 6xxx range for it to stop sucking
12:00:28Coldtoastyep
12:00:45DarkkOneIt was weird the first time I owned a videocard with a faster core, and more memory than a computer I'd previously owned. But that was like, a 4mb videocard.
12:00:50ashridahyeah, the 7xxx nvidia range are nice. and about $1000 bucks here
12:01:09Coldtoastyou must be in Canada
12:01:12Coldtoastor Australia
12:01:21ashridah.au
12:01:22DarkkOneI have a 5700 that's not doing too badly. Well, for what I paid for it, at least, since it was about $200 back when it was "new"
12:01:26ashridahsif canada :)
12:01:29ColdtoastI'm in Tas
12:01:39DarkkOneTas?
12:01:42DarkkOneI had a gym teacher from there once.
12:01:45Coldtoastone of my friends has a 5950
12:01:50ashridahDarkkOne: tasmania
12:01:52Coldtoasthe loves it
12:02:01DarkkOneI've heard the 5950 is nice.
12:02:13Coldtoastnice looking bit of hardware too
12:02:20DarkkOneI'm waiting for somebody to invent something really new again.
12:02:45DarkkOneI mean, programmable shader languages and all that are all well and good, but things need to change big again, like when GPUs first appeared.
12:02:50ashridahDarkkOne: need someone to invent a piece of decently accelerated sound hardware
12:03:02ColdtoastASIO
12:03:09ColdtoastI have a Delta44 here
12:03:12Coldtoastnice ASIO
12:03:48Coldtoasthey ashridah: you'd know who Kostya Tzu is then?
12:03:52ashridahwhack 128MB of ram on it, and a decent programmable chip, so you can feed it vector data, ala opengl, and let it do the mixing, doppler, reverb, etc.
12:04:02DarkkOneFor gaming, I'd like to see hardware-assisted raytracing finally finish. That, and I'd like to see someone make a physics-in-a-box type chip/board.
12:04:14ashridahColdtoast: the boxer? barely. couldn't care less about boring junk like that
12:04:23Coldtoastyep. the boxer
12:04:37ColdtoastDarkkOne: there IS a dedicated physics card
12:04:44ashridahDarkkOne: supposedly those are on the way too, already, but it's hard to justify the cost (they said that about 3d hardware tho)
12:04:55Coldtoastwe have him in at work tonight ashridah. heh. got asked to work but I'm too sick
12:05:07ashridahat work?
12:05:14Coldtoastyeah. I work at a nightclub
12:05:22ashridahah
12:05:26Coldtoast$65 to go see him tho
12:05:28uskiColdtoast, what do you do in the club ?
12:05:31DarkkOneWell, odds are you wouldn't need to continually enhance the phsyics chip like you do graphics.
12:05:42Coldtoastsecurity uski
12:05:45uskiok :)
12:05:47DarkkOneI mean, it's not like you're going to want physics correct down to the quantum level in a game.
12:05:54ashridahDarkkOne: well, if you're smart, you'd make it a proper programmable GPU, so you can upload new microcode to it
12:06:02ashridahand upgrade the physics engine
12:06:11ColdtoastDarkkOne: http://www.ageia.com/
12:06:29ashridahhell, something like that you'd probably be able to start doing real damagable scenes
12:06:33ashridahinstead of scripted stuff
12:06:56ashridahjust pile in some geometry stuff into it, have it start rebuilding bsp trees on the fly, and creating new portals :)
12:07:15*ashridah can really dream sometimes :)
12:07:34DarkkOneThe biggest problem about real damageable geometry is that eventually you hit game-world limits.
12:07:42 Join hicks [0] (~hicks@zeus.mups.co.uk)
12:07:49ashridahthe big problem with anything like that, is that the pci bus already has a bunch of traffic, due to the video and sound hardware
12:08:05ashridahthere's only so much you can try to pile onto the pci bus before it becomes more economical to just do it in the cpu and memory
12:08:11DarkkOneTrue
12:08:48ashridahthat's possibly one of the barriers to decent audio processing hardware for games
12:09:06DarkkOneI think one day gaming's going to pretty much move off of PCs to consoles.
12:09:15ashridahthere's just not enough pci bandwidth to transfer each individual sound. you'd need to make sure you only had to do that once, and avoid mass changes of the sound tables
12:09:24ashridahDarkkOne: they've been saying that for years.
12:09:32ashridahi'm still waiting for it to come true
12:09:37DarkkOneI didn't say *when* I think it'll happen
12:09:40ashridahthe fact is, some games are just easier to play on a pc.
12:09:59ashridahbut in a sense, it's already more popular on consoles
12:10:02ashridahwhich is unsurprising
12:10:07DarkkOneYeah, but the next generation of consoles are all slated to let you plug in a monitor, and have USB ports.
12:10:16Coldtoastsee unreal3 will be released on the PS3?
12:10:42DarkkOneThe big problem for games moving to consoles is that designers still feel they have to treat console players differently, and that they *should* try to differentiate by not allowing keyboard/mouse controls and whatnot.
12:10:44ashridahthe next gen of consoles are also going to be near impossible to program for at the hobbiest level (and realistically, already are)
12:10:52ashridahso pcs are still the hobby domain.
12:11:09DarkkOneI think that's the big problem
12:11:23ashridahand that's where a lot of the new fresh programmers will come from
12:11:32DarkkOneThey need to make consoles designed to allow unsigned (or hobbiest-signed) code.
12:11:33ashridahso you'll still want a decent mod community
12:11:39ashridahand thus, you still want pc games.
12:11:47ashridahDarkkOne: it's not just that
12:12:01ashridahit's the design of the hardware that will ultimately make it difficult for a hobbiest
12:12:15DarkkOneHow so?
12:12:19ashridahthere's just such a huge fundamental shift, and the develolpment gear is so expensive, it just won't be possible for people to get into it
12:12:25Coldtoastanybody have a <1GHz notebook they're selling? heh
12:12:33ashridahnew consoles being highly thread-based, after all.
12:12:41DarkkOneDevelopment gear, hadn't thought of that aspect.
12:12:53ashridahand threaded gaming is hard for fulltime programmers, let alone anyone else.
12:13:23DarkkOneTrue
12:13:29ashridahbut yeah. ms and sony won't even talk to you if you ask for a devkit for the xbox2 or ps3, unless you're an established publisher
12:13:46ashridahi was reading a bunch of stuff about that recently. don't think i've got the link anymore, hang on
12:14:17DarkkOneThe thing is, from the regular community, where most of the money comes from. The Walmart-buyers, they're gonna be saying "Why should I even think about playing games on my computer, when they can't even come *close* to looking like that?" Too much shiny in this new world.
12:15:13DarkkOneI mean, when it first came out, the XBox was maybe on par with what PCs could do. And to an extent, is to the lower end models.
12:16:25DarkkOneBut like, at my local Gamestop, I'd say maybe 1 in 20 customers, if not less, buy PC games these days.
12:16:29ashridahhttp://www.gamedev.net/community/forums/topic.asp?topic_id=333516 that's the thread i was reading
12:16:44zeDarkkOne: come close to looking like what?
12:16:47ashridahDarkkOne: it won't take long for the pc to yet again skip ahead of the consoles
12:16:56ashridahand infact, they'll do that practically as soon as the consoles come out
12:17:55zerendering resolution, anti-aliasing, texture resolution, geometry... all rather consistently superior capabilities on pc's vs consoles
12:18:08zeif a console ever comes out that can beat a pc, its like ashridah said.. not for long
12:18:27zeand then its a couple years more still before another console comes out
12:18:30DarkkOneWith the next gen Ze, it's pretty much just going to be Rendering Resolution and maybe Texture Resolution, at least for a little while.
12:18:37ashridahbesides, pcs are priced such that it'll be always cheaper to cram more memory into them
12:18:42DarkkOneAnd the next console comes out in less than 5 months
12:18:56zeyeah 5 months from now
12:19:12ashridahand of course, there's still a hystericalyl huge number of PAL and NTSC tvs out there that console games are still under the best resolution on
12:19:12zethe ps2 and xbox are pretty old by now
12:19:33*DarkkOne shrugs.
12:19:39ashridahand the concept of buying a hdtv here in .au (over in the us it's a bigger advantage) is minimal at best, since PAL doesnt' suck as much as NTSC does
12:19:40DarkkOneI'm not saying the next gen of consoles is going to do it.
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12:20:02zeheh there's very little difference between pal and ntsc really
12:20:07DarkkOneI'm saying that with consoles they have the freedom to do alot more with the hardware.
12:20:18DarkkOneSince you aren't limited to the standard setup internal to a PC.
12:20:36ashridahDarkkOne: there's no question that they can optimise harder for the console
12:20:40zewell... they can push the hardware exactly to its limits
12:20:51zewith the confidence that everyone'll get the same experience from it
12:20:59ashridahbut you can't scale the hardware's capabilities up. once you hit that roof, you're constrained until the next version of the hardware comes out
12:21:20zebut yeah once they're at those limits, thats it
12:21:34zeand if those limits compromise your vision, too bad
12:21:46zeyou can't even add options for anyone with a faster system to get the full experience
12:22:15ashridahand infact, i'd say the biggest advance console gaming has had in the last 15 years is hdtv, and not the console hardware itself
12:22:18zeyou can't even make it so it can be better on newer hardware... because there's no newer hardware until the next console
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12:22:48DarkkOneI'm not saying consoles are ideal, but I think there's a going to be a point where they run games better than PCs will, and eventually the PCs won't catch up by the time the next gen hits shelves.
12:23:07zei don't see how that can happen
12:23:08DarkkOneThe XBox *barely* surpassed PCs when it came out. If that.
12:23:08DarkkOneThe XBox 360 certainly will.
12:23:26ashridahDarkkOne: i doubt that. athlon 64's are already cheap enough that they're scaling past consoles, particularly the dual-core stuff.
12:23:29 Join Coldtoast [0] (~edan@ppp111-3.lns1.hba1.internode.on.net)
12:23:31zebetween the marketting life of consoles, plus the hard limits of silicon development that they're both subject to
12:23:31DarkkOneWhat about the XBox 720, or whatever?
12:24:06*ashridah is willing to bet we'll be having this discussion then too ;)
12:24:17zeits the standard business practice not to release a new console untill they've sucked every last bit of profit they can from the old one
12:24:18 Quit DarkkOne ("Chatzilla 0.9.68a [Firefox 1.0.3/20050414]")
12:24:34zepc hardware can just keep pushing though
12:24:37zehmm
12:24:38zeheh
12:24:47ColdtoastI really like the xbox
12:24:54Coldtoastthe original
12:25:10ColdtoastI hear you can also buy games for it!
12:25:19ashridahi'm not an xbox fan. although i will admit i bought an xbox controller, and hacked a usb jack onto it to play n64 emulator roms on it >:)
12:25:34zeheh
12:25:36Coldtoastheh. I don't think I've played an xbox game at all this year
12:25:46zei've never played on an xbox
12:26:01ColdtoastI DO play SNES games, Neo Geo, CPS tho
12:26:04Coldtoastand watch movies
12:26:21Coldtoastthe xbox has better gfx than the PS2 too
12:26:33Coldtoastdespite what some ppl might have you believe
12:26:46zeyeah i've got this game psychonauts
12:26:46Coldtoastthat's borne from it's PC roots tho
12:26:59Coldtoastcos the xbox really IS just a PC
12:27:04zeneat game, though the meat circus stuff at the end is just tedius, haven't bothered to go through it heh
12:27:22zebut i've read the xbox version has higher res textures and such than the ps2 one
12:27:26ColdtoastP3 733, nVidia 3d accelerated gfx, IDE, etc
12:27:41Coldtoastethernet, USB. it's all tehre
12:27:59]RowaN[hmm wheres austriancoder
12:28:10Coldtoastyou can upgrde an xbox to 1.4GHx and upgrade the RAM to 128MB too
12:28:16ColdtoastGHz
12:28:31Coldtoastbut it's not cheap and not something you can do yourself
12:28:35ashridahi thought it already was 128MB
12:28:41Coldtoastnah. 64MB
12:28:53zewow
12:29:01zethats a sad amount of ram
12:29:15Coldtoastbut still, it works
12:29:46Coldtoastonly half the mem sockets are populated tho
12:29:52Coldtoastso you can double that
12:30:04Coldtoastrequires a lot of soldering, however; 4x168pins
12:30:45Coldtoastand games won't run any faster. Emulators will take advantage of it tho
12:31:04Coldtoastlike, games don't take advantage of the extra 64MB when it's installed
12:31:19zewell yeah that kindof an upgrade doesn't do much good on a console except for 3rd party stuff
12:31:35zebecause the games are always made to use exactly what hardware is there and no more
12:31:43Coldtoastthe xbox beats the crap out of every single other console released at the moment tho
12:31:52Coldtoastbecuase of it's capabilities when modded
12:31:58Coldtoastnothing touches it
12:33:19 Part MikeNoe33
12:33:43 Join MikeNoe33 [0] (~MikeN@200.du.saccapital.com)
12:33:54Coldtoasthttp://www.3dluvr.com/edan/tmp/XBox/
12:33:58Coldtoastthere's my xbox :)
12:35:12Coldtoasthad the jewel custom made by an AWESOME guy in Europe, added a LAN led as well as an IDE activity led
12:36:13ColdtoastI'd have really liked to have done a DVD window mod too but can't be bothered any more
12:36:23Coldtoastoh. also integrated the DVD receiver
12:36:50Coldtoastadded a power button to one of the controllers as well
12:37:02 Join Moos [0] (DrMoos@m40.net81-66-158.noos.fr)
12:37:16MoosHi all
12:43:30t0mashi
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12:43:50 Join Malnilion [0] (~Malnilion@dpc6682033157.direcpc.com)
13:00
13:09:11 Join austriancoder [0] (~c1aa6611@labb.contactor.se)
13:09:20austriancoderhi
13:09:28 Join rooom_wrk [0] (~Roman@adsl-bn150-156-158-212.bluetone.cz)
13:09:36rooom_wrkhi2all
13:12:15austriancoderhi
13:12:48rooom_wrkamiconn: Have you any direct connection to Joerg? Can you pls reremember him to update the WIKI? I have already everything prepared and only SW and little sw HowTo is missing to me :-(((
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13:56:33***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
14:00
14:09:11crwllooks like replaygain support eats battery quite a lot
14:09:45Learnot when I test it here.
14:10:03Learjust trying with some experimental support for mp3, and I can't see any significant difference...
14:11:00 Join RotAtoR [0] (~e@153.106.54.47)
14:11:45crwlwell... i didn't do a scientific test :)
14:11:59crwlbut when i'm at work, i usually get the battery from full to about 75-80% capacity
14:12:08crwltoday i got it down to about 63% :P
14:12:32crwl(with a 2200 mAh battery)
14:13:00Learnow, that was unscientific. :) I at looked at the boost rate, and it looked pretty much the same.
14:13:53crwlmaybe something else has changed too...
14:14:04crwllooks like the PCM buffer watermark is too high when crossfade isn't used
14:14:26crwlit's always at about 70% full, minimum
14:14:55crwlboost rates were maybe 40-45% for 150-170 kbps vorbis files
14:15:04crwlwhich looks slightly high to me
14:15:48 Join FredyD [0] (~chatzilla@apollon.inrialpes.fr)
14:17:47LearHm.. 40-45% does sound a little high; I think I get about 30 from such files (though with a larger pcm buffer).
14:18:26Learand pcm watermark isn't that high (thought it could be slightly lower); the main reason is that the pcm buffer is much smaller nowdays (less than half).
14:18:59crwlyes, i noticed...
14:19:13 Quit uski (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
14:19:31crwlbut it still seems little high if it's never emptier than 70% full :)
14:19:56crwlor maybe 60%
14:20:15 Quit FredyD ("Chatzilla 0.9.68.5 [Fedora 1.0.4-0.fdr.1.2/20050514]")
14:20:43crwlwell, boost ratio definitely hovers around 40%... i'll try without replaygain
14:21:14 Join FredyD [0] (~chatzilla@apollon.inrialpes.fr)
14:21:38crwlno, it's not at all lower without replaygain, so there's something else to blame then
14:21:44Leariirc, the watermark is 190 kB, and the total size is 340 kB (with no crossfade).
14:22:42Learyou could switch back to an older build with larger pcm buffers and see if it makes a difference. If so, perhaps I should adjust the pcm buffer sizes a little...
14:22:47crwlyes, total size is 340 kB
14:23:07crwlin fact i think i had a version with smaller PCM buffer before, and it didn't have such a high boost ratios...
14:23:12crwlmaybe from thursday or so
14:23:33crwli'll retest it
14:26:36crwlyes, i have a build i compiled last friday, it has already 340 kB PCM buffer, and the boost ratios hover around 29-30% with same files
14:28:21Learstrange, so that was after the last crossfade changes, but before replaygain code?
14:28:25crwlLear, yes
14:28:51Learbecause of the replaygain stuff, vorbis decoding is done somewhat different, maybe that could explain something...
14:29:05crwlunless there were changes in crossfade code after approximately friday noon (GMT)
14:29:48crwlmaybe...
14:29:54Learnot any large ones at least, I think...
14:31:09Learonly major change since friday night is replaygain...
14:31:47crwlhmm, i'll try with some other oggs too
14:32:06crwlthese i quickly tested (and to which i mostly listened today at work) were pretty old, even from pre-1.0 vorbis era
14:32:15crwlif it matters
14:32:51LearI get ~50% now as well, and I'm pretty sure it was more like 30% before...
14:33:09crwloh
14:33:30crwland i think the biggest changes in vorbis files happened between libvorbis 1.0 beta4 and rc2
14:33:34crwlthese are rc3
14:33:41*Lear disables the peak meter, just in case....
14:34:30crwlis the peak meter code being used if it's not in the WPS?
14:35:59LearI don't know, that's why I'm testing to make sure. :)
14:36:17crwlheh :)
14:36:45Moosplus David Bryant changed this peak meter code this morning
14:37:00crwli think the whole peak meter is pretty useless, i don't actively stare at the player screen while playing anyway
14:38:08Coldtoastwhat'd be REALLY cool is is you could control a mask with the peak level rather than having peak meters
14:38:36Coldtoastso you cold make your own peak meter gfx and use a peak-controlled mask to display it :)
14:39:16Coldtoastor maybe just have the peak level control how much of an image is displayed. hh
14:41:53Learok, switched to a build from thursday...
14:48:14Learhm... more like 43-45% there...
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14:56:28Mirflehi
14:56:47Mirfleany devs around?
14:57:52MirfleI have a compiler warning with my hebrew patch which I would like to clean
14:58:17 Join cYmen [0] (~cymen@129.13.73.33)
14:58:20ashridahwhat's the warning?
15:00
15:00:01Mirflepassing arg 1 of `hebrew_l2v' discards qualifiers from pointer target type
15:00:31 Join Musicmad [0] (~Musicmad@cpe.atm2-0-1031198.0x50a4ad0e.bynxx13.customer.tele.dk)
15:00:50Mirflethe code:
15:00:51Mirfle if (bidi_support_enabled)
15:00:53Mirfle str = hebrew_l2v(str, 1);
15:00:54Mirflein lcd-h100.c
15:00:56Mirfleline 996
15:01:35Leare.g., const char* to char* without a cast.
15:02:14MirfleI'm not very fluent in pointers yet, can you elaborate?
15:02:39LearHm.. Seems I've found one thing; the clipping code in dsp.c was not as efficient as that in Tremor. Easy to improve a bit, though not quite back to the "old" speed.
15:03:35LearA const char* is a pointer to a memory buffer you can't modify (the const says constant), so if you try to assign that to a char* (without const) you could modify that memory. The compiler warns about that.
15:04:47Mirfleso how do I fix it?
15:06:30LearHm... You want to modify the string to puts? Naughty. :) Much better to make puts write chars backwards, if you ask me.
15:07:15LearThat "str" should stay as const; much code depends on that, I'd say...
15:08:48MirfleI didn't write the original patch, but only updated to work after 2 years af gathering dust.
15:09:10MirfleI'm not sure I know how to do that...
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15:13:45MirfleLear: can you help me try to change the code to do what you said instead?
15:14:41 Join DreamTactix291 [0] (~dreamtact@adsl-146-144-44.bna.bellsouth.net)
15:15:31 Part Musicmad
15:16:30LearWell, basically, you start at the right edge instead of the left edge, and decrease x rather than increase.
15:18:35LearFor each character written to the screen...
15:20:04Mirflethis should be done in the puts function?
15:20:38LearI'll be... That optimization benefits MP3 as well (no surprise there), so 128 kbps MP3:s are pretty much realtime at 48 MHz now. :)
15:21:04crwlHmm...
15:21:20MirfleI think the idea of the current method is to leave the (complicated) hebrew algorithm in a separate file
15:21:34LearNo, lcd_putsxyofs, as that is where the actual glyph rendering takes place.
15:21:37Mirflecause it's not as simple as you put it
15:22:03LearMore than just right to left rendering, you mean?
15:22:34Mirfleyou need to identify if there is hebrew in the string, and then write ONLY those letters backwards
15:22:34LearStill, changing a const string shouldn't be done just like that...
15:23:59Mirflemaybe it could be changed before the point where rockbox first assigns it
15:24:31MirfleI'm just guessing, having no real knowledge as to how this REALLY works
15:25:05LearThat does makes things more difficult, yes. But you could then split up the rendering, without having to change the string...
15:26:07LearLike a translation layer (somewhere close to lcd_putsxyofs), that renders parts of the string rtl, other parts ltr.
15:27:52Mirflethe thing is, the current algorithm is kinda compicated (for me at least) and I woudn't know how to make these changes...
15:28:42Mirfle*complicated
15:35:32*t0mas np: Various Artists - Barman Mag Ik..... (0:13) [http://amarok.kde.org/]
15:35:37t0maslol
15:35:48LearPerhaps you should leave it as it is for now then. But it might make it harder to get the patch accepted later on... :)
15:35:54t0mas"Barman mag ik overgeven." translation: "Barkeeper can I vomit now?"
15:36:15Learcrwl: speedup committed.
15:36:26HClnice
15:37:17Mirflethumbs up
15:39:02crwlLear, great :) i'll check it out
15:45:09LearEven a 200kbps MP3 is close to realtime without boosting. 8)
15:45:39LearNow why didn't I think of this thing before, is what I ask myself...
15:47:04crwlnow do the same with vorbis ;)
15:49:02LearThat probably requires way more work, and I don't really know how (the mdct is the slowest part, afaik)...
15:49:54crwlheh, boost ratio indeed seems to be about 2% with 192 kbps MP3's :)
15:56:34***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
15:58:06HClsweet.
15:58:16HClwhat was the optimization exactly?
15:58:44LearUse iram for a few critical variables...
15:59:11LearI had already done so for most stuff in dsp.c, but not the clipping for some reason.
15:59:25HClsweet.
15:59:46HClthere appear to be a lot of new people coding for rockbox lately, i haven't been around o.o
15:59:50HCleither that or people changed nicks, heh.
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16:00:30 Quit ashridah (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
16:00:34Learthere's much to be done for the iriver port too, that helps...
16:01:10HClyup
16:01:18HCli have no idea about the current state of my runtime database
16:01:22HClor replaygain for that matter
16:01:33HCli had a field in the runtime database for manual volume adjustment on a per-song basis
16:01:37HClno idea if thats still needed
16:02:31 Quit Lear ("Chatzilla 0.9.68.5 [Firefox 1.0.6/20050720]")
16:06:34]RowaN[has anyone got some space where i could upload a flac which crashes rockbox? (its 35mb)
16:07:01CoCoLUSquestion: if i don't use vorbisgain, will the decoding still be slower? :)
16:14:58 Join BBub [0] (belzebub16@dsl-084-059-236-199.arcor-ip.net)
16:15:12BBubthe new peak meter is really accurate
16:15:14BBubnice job
16:16:49crwlso, does it use much cpu?
16:25:00BBubdoesnt seem so
16:29:50HCl]RowaN[: sure
16:29:58HCl]RowaN[: toss it in ftp://titania.student.utwente.nl/incoming/
16:35:01]RowaN[k
16:35:46]RowaN[should be complete in about 20mins time
16:46:37amiconnMirfle: Changing a string declared const is evil. A patch doing this can't be accepted; here are 2 arbitrary reasons why:
16:46:48 Quit Moos (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
16:47:12amiconn(1) A number of optimisations done by the compiler rely on data declared const staying const
16:49:28amiconn(2) (even more important) On archos it is possible to run rockbox directly from ROM, and I have strong hopes that one day this will possible on the iriver too. For rombox builds, constant data is read directly from ROM, so changing it won't work at all.
16:51:02amiconnImho the only feasible option to support hebrew, arabic etc. is to first implement unicode support, then extend upon that
16:52:14amiconnAnd yes, the rtl/ltr rendering switch has to be done in lcd_putsxyofs(), or a translation layer close to that function
16:53:02amiconnThere already is an unicode support patch, but unfortunately it is rather incomplete.
16:54:38]RowaN[HCl: its there now
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17:07:02godzirraIS there a linux dvd audio ripper?
17:07:06godzirraI know there's like 3 trllion on windows...
17:10:01DreamTactix291i thought there was only one on windows
17:10:12crashdonly one worth using :]
17:12:16rooomishamiconn: Have you any direct connection to Joerg? Can you pls remind him to update the WIKI? I have already everything prepared and only SW and little sw HowTo is missing to me :-(((
17:12:51amiconnI only have the same methods of contact; email and irc when he's around
17:15:59 Quit RotAtoR ()
17:16:15godzirrawhats the one worth using?
17:16:17godzirraand is there one on linux? :)
17:17:14 Join RotAtoR [0] (~e@153.106.54.47)
17:17:50DreamTactix291considering the one worth using on windows uses WinDVD to help pipe the data i'd so probably not
17:22:10Slasherihi, just got access to a pc from the "mil service" :)
17:22:22Slasheriit's not so bad being here
17:22:49godzirraDreamTactix291: but what -is- the one worth using on windwos?
17:22:50godzirrawindows
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17:32:34 Nick CBM-away is now known as CheeseBurgerMan (~BurgerBoy@tc2-225-085.altelco.net)
17:36:00godzirraApparently no one will tell me :/
17:36:18*CheeseBurgerMan doesn't know...
17:36:42*CheeseBurgerMan looks at DT annd crashd.
17:37:39*CheeseBurgerMan looks at them more sternly.
17:37:40CheeseBurgerMan:P
17:39:28godzirrayour stern look apparently isnt frightening them into submission.
17:39:33CheeseBurgerManYeah.
17:39:36CheeseBurgerManApparently.
17:39:43*CheeseBurgerMan turns on his eyes of death.
17:39:56*CheeseBurgerMan turns them off.
17:40:01CheeseBurgerManDon't want to kill them.
17:40:50godzirraThats awfully big of you.
17:40:51*CheeseBurgerMan sends a mindprobe.
17:40:57godzirraafk a sec.. gotta reboot.
17:41:01CheeseBurgerManWell, if I kill them, they can't say.
17:41:01CheeseBurgerManOK
17:45:24DreamTactix291<godzirra> DreamTactix291: but what -is- the one worth using on windwos? <−− the ones that were hosted on rarewares until roberto had to take them down
17:45:34DreamTactix291i don't own any DVD-A discs so to be honest i never played with them
17:47:29CheeseBurgerManIt must've been the eyes of death that persuaded him to say... :P
17:47:38 Quit TCK (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
17:47:56DreamTactix291no, just the fact i noticed the channel
17:48:12CheeseBurgerManOh.
17:48:18 Quit silencer_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
17:48:22*CheeseBurgerMan likes his explanation better.
17:49:39*DreamTactix291 is happy about the replaygain support so me ignores CBM
17:49:51DreamTactix291sorry bud
17:49:55CheeseBurgerManlol
17:51:16*DreamTactix291 imagines his H140 with an 80 gig drive and an aftermarket battery playing all wavpack :P
17:51:42*CheeseBurgerMan imagines DT imagining that and not watching where he's driving.
17:51:58*CheeseBurgerMan can almost hear the crunch...
17:54:56DreamTactix291well i've actually got an operating position to work my H140 while i drive
17:56:36***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
17:57:11*CheeseBurgerMan sighs as DT picks apart all his arguments/comments. :|
17:57:13CheeseBurgerMan:P
17:59:31DreamTactix291that's what i do best
17:59:57CheeseBurgerMan:o
18:00
18:00:09CheeseBurgerManYou need a new area of expertise.
18:00:19DreamTactix291audio compression maybe?
18:00:21*HCl flashes his player with a recent build and goes to get dinner
18:00:25CheeseBurgerManYeah, that sounds good.
18:00:31CheeseBurgerManGo learn about that.
18:00:33CheeseBurgerMan:P
18:00:45DreamTactix291lol
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18:27:46godzirraok.. back
18:27:50godzirrawent and grabbed lunch
18:28:14godzirrahrm
18:28:18godzirraI need to figure out how to rip them then
18:28:21godzirraI know I can do it with mplayer
18:28:27godzirrabut that rips one big audio file...
18:28:58 Quit FredyD ("Chatzilla 0.9.68.5 [Fedora 1.0.4-0.fdr.1.2/20050514]")
18:30:29godzirrasigh... I segfault when mounting my cdrom
18:47:12 Join Lear [0] (~chatzilla@81.227.96.143)
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18:52:42austriancoderhi all
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18:59:33godzirrahowdy austriancoder
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19:10:19t0mashm
19:10:23t0masthe rockbox tick counter...
19:10:33t0masdoes it just wrap around when it's overflowing?
19:10:42HCllast build i tried worked fine
19:10:48HClaside from my runtime database seeming broken
19:14:48 Quit Nibbler ("life is like a rental car, you fuck it up, and give it back.")
19:15:22t0masand am I right that a 32 bits counter at 100 hz lasts for 497 days?
19:15:44t0mas(so that rockbox never reaches the overflow value?)
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19:30:35LearRemember the 49.7 days crash bug? :)
19:31:26bagawk?
19:33:11amiconnt0mas: Almost. current_tick is a (signed) long, so it will "already" overflow after 248d 13h 13min 56.47 s
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19:33:58bagawkheh who has a box on that long?
19:37:46 Quit Mirfle ("Chatzilla 0.9.68a [Firefox 1.0.4/20050511]")
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19:47:51Mongeyhi
19:48:18bagawkMongey, kello
19:50:33Mongeydo you think rockbox will start on the iriver h300 first
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19:50:59CheeseBurgerMan"first"?
19:51:09CheeseBurgerManas in before what?
19:51:33Mongeyafter the h100
19:52:01bagawkMongey, they are not doing them in "order"
19:52:08 Nick CheeseBurgerMan is now known as CBM-away (~BurgerBoy@tc2-225-085.altelco.net)
19:52:33bagawkMongey, h300 support will only happen if one of the developers get one and start writting code
19:52:42amiconnbagawk: (long on-time) I can imagine one application that leads to very long on-time - surveillance recording
19:53:04amiconnThis would work like a charm with triggered recording on the archos recorder
19:53:18CassandraIf I get around to implementing a "sleep mode" that will also cause long on times of sorts.
19:53:27amiconn...because every trigger event will start a new file, and the file has a handy time-stamped name...
19:54:07Mongeylinus has a h320
19:54:24amiconnCassandra: Sleep mode for wake-up alarm won't have problems with counter overflow
19:55:06amiconnI already talked to Linus about some ideas. For a wake-up alarm, we could shut down pretty much everything (HD power, LCD, audio codec)
19:55:17CassandraThat's what I was planning.
19:55:19amiconn...and put the CPU to 11 MHz (pll bypass)
19:55:40bagawkamiconn, why not off?
19:55:43amiconnWe could even switch off the DRAM if we run the wake-up loop in IRAM
19:55:53CassandraAlso, maybe leaving the LCD on with some sort of clock running but no backlight (only if power requirement is negliable.)
19:56:00amiconnbagawk: How would the box wake up then???
19:56:24bagawkgood point not rtc and such
19:56:27CassandraPart of the idea is to implement RTC for units without hardware RTC>
19:56:34amiconn...and reduce the timer tick to 1 Hz instead of the 100 Hz in active mode
19:56:37CassandraFor this the unit has to stay "on"
19:56:39amiconn->way less interrupts
19:56:41***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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19:57:29Cassandra*nods to amicon* Yes. Definitely. Since all we need to is update our infernal clock. ;)
19:57:42amiconnIf I read the datasheet correctly, it may even be possible to clock the CPU with less than 11 MHz
19:58:19amiconnHowever, that requires to use the PLL while 11 MHz shuts down the PLL (bypass)
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19:59:00amiconnSomeone would need to measure whether the power saving from clocking the CPU lower exceeds the power required by the PLL or not
19:59:30amiconnI once calculated the minimum possible CPU clock, iirc it was something around 4 MHz
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21:19:02Mirfleamiconn: Iread the log, and uderstand the problems in the current approach. I don't understand what unicode support can help other than making it easier to get fonts.
21:19:09Mirflewait, is that the point? :)
21:20:58amiconnThe thing is that unicode provides markers that can be embedded in a string and tell the rendering function when to switch direction
21:21:41amiconnHow would you handle this without unicode rendering, meaning, how do you tell the renderer what is latin text and what is hebrew, arabic etc text?
21:23:12amiconnAnother important point is the font support itself. Unicode will hopefully put an end to the problems caused by the heapload of existing codepages
21:23:25Mirflein the current algorithm it checks if the char is >=193 && <=250
21:24:19amiconnHmm. How does the renderer know whether this is hebrew etc.? It could be extended latin-1 (european) or cyrillic, or......
21:25:20Mirflethere is an option in the LCD menu called "bidi hebrew/arabic"...
21:25:49 Join leftright [0] (~5087d821@labb.contactor.se)
21:25:53Mirfleonly if it is set will it change the string
21:26:57amiconnHmm, that might work if you have hebrew/arabic text *only*. I still consider this a hack, though it might be accepted as an intermediate solution provided the const string problem is solved
21:27:24amiconnI still think unicode (most probably utf-8 internally) is the right way to go.
21:31:08leftrightdoes replaygain (rockbox's) read the files in a playlist according to the "track" or "Album" setting ?
21:31:41leftrightie, it will always apply those settings to whatever tracks or albums are added to the playlist
21:33:46leftrightso if more tracks are continuously added to the playlist it will always apply either Track or Album gain ?
21:35:30leftrightmaybe I have the cat by the tail :)
21:39:31amiconnw00t!
21:39:53amiconnLast function of the old grayscale lib converted :)
21:41:16pikehehe http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?product_id=3756867
21:41:18pikecute
21:43:24amiconnSeems they don't fully know what they're talking about: An OLED display with a backlight?? Hehe
21:44:47 Quit Mirfle ("Chatzilla 0.9.68a [Firefox 1.0.4/20050511]")
21:55:21Learleftright: see menus for track/album setting; selection is based on that only (and what is available in the file, of course).
21:55:21LearHm... Did some hacking; went way too easy to build. It just can't work anywhere how it should. :)
21:55:22LearNope, didn't work at all. :)
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22:14:34 Join west-acre [0] (air@82-35-84-182.cable.ubr03.dals.blueyonder.co.uk)
22:14:53west-acrehey people.
22:15:06west-acrewhere can i get .rom files from?
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22:17:28west-acrehey people.
22:17:29 Quit Chamois (Client Quit)
22:17:29west-acrewhere can i get .rom files from?
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22:28:59BBubwest-acre: for what?
22:29:17west-acreiriver h1xx on rockbox
22:29:42west-acreBBub
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22:39:42west-acreBBub
22:39:42west-acre?
22:42:07BBubthere is no need for rom-files
22:42:35BBubhttp://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IriverBoot#Step_1_Download_and_extract_a_re
22:42:47Stryke`i believe he is talking about RockBoy
22:42:55BBubmaybe
22:43:46west-acrei've already installed it you newB.
22:43:54west-acrejust not sure where to get roms
22:44:21BBubwest-acre: then try to talk so one can understand what you mean
22:47:47west-acreok :)
22:55:19LearHm... How do I twiddle the H140 led? Set/clear 0x40 at 0x05FFFFC3?
22:56:07west-acrenot sure. what is it sposed to do?
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23:01:00LearDoesn't seem software controllable...
23:01:51 Quit [-AIR-] ("—I-n-v-i-s-i-o-n— 2.0 Build 3515")
23:02:15HClits not.
23:02:25HClthe red one is hardwired to harddisk, afaik
23:02:31HCland green hardwired to charging
23:03:26Learoh well, makes debugging harder, I guess... :/
23:04:44leftrightis there a write up about the 'prevent clipping' setting
23:07:04 Part leftright
23:07:52Learnope, unless you count documentation at www.replaygain.org or other players with the same settings. :)
23:10:08CassandraDoes the Rockbox replaygain stuff support replaygain in ID3v2 tags?
23:13:01LearNot yet, though I'm working on it, based on the tags Foobar2000 writes. Don't know if that is the right way though...
23:14:48 Join leftright [0] (~5087d821@labb.contactor.se)
23:16:49leftrighthmm, v2 tags is preferable ?, for it leaves the muisc alone and is reverseable ?
23:17:38 Join DarkkOne [0] (~chatzilla@cpe-66-68-93-2.austin.res.rr.com)
23:17:44CassandraChanging ID3 tags shouldn't affect the music either, surely.
23:18:08CassandraAnd I'm not sure but I think foobar only writes replaygain to the ID3 info.
23:19:00DarkkOneYeah, foobar doesn't change the samples like mp3gain, it just adds the tags. It's just replaygain as it's supposed to be, I'm fairly sure.
23:19:09leftrightit if configurable
23:19:14leftrightit is
23:19:30DarkkOneWhat do you mean?
23:19:49leftrightyou can set it to write to v2 or ape tags
23:21:58LearYes, foobar2000 only writes tags. And at least 0.9 can write replaygain to id3v2 tags.
23:22:17leftright.8 as well
23:23:30LearAh, good to know that. And same format I hope (TXXX in vorbisgain style, so to speak).
23:24:54Coldtoasthmm. I was under the impression MP3Gain doesn't touch the samples
23:25:49LearAt least by default it does. The good thing with that is that it works with any player...
23:26:23amiconnAfaiu this won't affect quality either, as it does not reencode
23:27:05amiconnIt just sets some global volume field in each frame, and from what I understand, this limits the operation to a granularity of 1.5 dB steps
23:27:06DarkkOneHrm. How do you get foobar to put the replaygaings in ID3v2 tags Leftright?
23:27:29leftrightthe latest version of mp3gain can write to apev2 tags
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23:29:29LearFoobar can be set to only write id3v2 for MP3. Even 0.8, though I don't remember if you need a separate plugin for that.
23:30:40CassandraPresumably Rockbox ignores the ReplayGain info if you do though, right?
23:30:59CassandraI'm not sure I really want a *third* set of tag info in my MP3 files.
23:31:09DarkkOneI think you do need a plugin lear. Or I just can't find an option.
23:31:23leftrightDarkone: go to database under preferences and untick 'lock tag update config'
23:31:40leftrightlock=block
23:31:42CassandraI think it's under "Tag Writing" in 0.9
23:32:10 Join Strath [0] (mike@dgvlwinas01pool0-a244.wi.tds.net)
23:32:51LearCassandra: I'm not sure I follow you... Currently Rockbox doesn't look for replaygain info for MP3, but the code I have do look in id3v2 for it. So it would only be one set of tags (if you skip v1).
23:33:15CassandraAh, right.
23:33:30CassandraI thought it did look in APE tags for MP3.
23:33:59leftrightFoobars RG pre-amp is neat
23:34:44DarkkOneleftright, that is unclicked.
23:34:56CassandraHow do I tell "autoplaylist" to just look for everything in my media folders?
23:34:57LearNot without "official" MP3 APE tag support at least.
23:34:58DarkkOneBut it writes the replaygain info to APEv2 tags
23:35:01 Join ashridah [0] (ashridah@220-253-123-135.VIC.netspace.net.au)
23:35:25Leardarkkone: not necessarily... (Foobar that is)
23:35:39DarkkOneMy foobar's doing so.
23:36:13CassandraI think foobar writes ID3v1 and APE by default.
23:36:18DarkkOneYeah
23:36:19CassandraSeems like a wacky default to me.
23:36:22DarkkOneThat's what mine seems to be doing.
23:36:39Learbut you can tell foobar to only write id3v2 if you want
23:36:43CassandraYou can change it in the "tag writing" settings.
23:37:03 Quit rooomish (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:37:26CassandraNo, I lie. The default seems to be "just ID3v1"
23:37:36CassandraSo you must've told it to write to APE tags.
23:38:10DarkkOneHrm
23:38:11leftrightcomponents>id3v2 tags tick always write to ISO-8869
23:39:45DarkkOnehrm. Do I need to strip the APE tags before I run the replaygain scan?
23:40:09CassandraHmmm. I don't think I'll bother replaygaining my MP3s until the Rockbox support for it is finalised.
23:40:12 Quit TCK- (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
23:40:40DarkkOneWait and see which tags they officially support anyway?
23:41:40Cassandra*nods* I suspect RB is likely to go for Replaygain in ID3, since that's what's best supported for MP3 tagging.
23:42:06Learhm... regarding coldfire assembler... if I do a "cmp d1, d2" and I want to branch back if d1 is bigger, which cc code should I use?
23:42:43DarkkOneAh well, none of my MP3s need replaygain anyway
23:42:59DarkkOneMy only Mp3s are conversions of my audible books.
23:44:50leftrightfoobar gives prefernce to rg'd ape tags if they exist, and wont display v2 info
23:45:43DarkkOneWell, dbPoweramp is saying they're only APEv2 and ID3v1 tagged still
23:45:48*DarkkOne shrugs
23:46:00DarkkOneI dunno. I don't know much about all this.
23:48:24 Quit DarkkOne ("Chatzilla 0.9.68a [Firefox 1.0.3/20050414]")
23:52:47leftrightgo to prefernces> Input> Standard Inputs, to specify the tags you want foobar to write to
23:53:52leftrightensure that 'always write to ISO-8859 is also ticked under components> id3v2tags
23:54:38Learthat's not a good idea, is it, if your text contains non-latin chars?
23:55:33BBubLear: is replaygain also going to be included for flac and other formats?
23:55:56Leardon't ask me about flac; I don't use it. :)
23:56:13BBubok ;)
23:56:18LearBut it is quite easy to add...
23:56:23CassandraI wish I had a program that wrote m3u playlists with relative paths.
23:56:40*Lear wrote a Python script for that a long time ago...
23:56:44CassandraSince my music is in s:\Music on my PC and in the root on the iRiver.
23:56:47***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:57:17LearWell, my script only strips the volume label...
23:57:23BBubCassandra: try mp3tag on windows
23:57:27BBubvery nice
23:57:32 Quit tvelocity ("Leaving")
23:57:42BBubhttp://www.mp3tag.de/
23:58:33ghode|afkare there any pc gf card gurus in here?
23:58:47LearSeems like it doesn't support unicode tags though...

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