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#rockbox log for 2005-08-21

00:00:31 Join muesli__ [0] (i=muesli_t@hmln-d9b8e199.pool.mediaWays.net)
00:02:52muesli__XavierGr i use koss the plug which are imho not the worst
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00:05:56XavierGrMoos: as far as I can remember these pops (now louder with the fix)were already there.
00:10:39muesli__g'night mates
00:11:17XavierGrgood night i have to go too. bye
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01:20:36garethEvening All
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10:34:32 Join linuxstb [0] (n=503a2beb@labb.contactor.se)
10:35:05linuxstbMorning all. I'm hoping someone can help me kill the last bug in my ALAC decoder...
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10:36:24linuxstbIf I play a FLAC or WAV file followed by an ALAC file, then the last second or so of the FLAC/WAV file isn't played.
10:37:07linuxstbIt seems that the initialisation of the ALAC decoder is causing what's left in the PCM buffer to be deleted.
10:42:01 Join arp [0] (i=infinite@obscure.metachar.net)
10:45:20arpho ho!
10:45:22arpmisfire
10:46:27Slasherlinuxstb: Hmm, that's weird.. you don't have crossfade enabled?
10:46:46linuxstbNo, crossfade is disabled. It only happens with ALAC, not the other codecs.
10:47:26Slasherok, that shouldn't happen then
10:47:30linuxstbI'm using CVS from about 8 days ago - I've been without proper internet access since then (I'm in an Internet cafe at the moment)
10:47:38arpso I hope people dont mind the following question...
10:47:45arpbut how stable/featureful is rockbox on iriver?
10:48:06Slasherit should be quite stable and very featureful
10:48:20arpall I really care about is gapless mp3's actually
10:48:48SlasherHmm, i think lame mp3's are almost gapless (there might be still some small errors)
10:48:53Slasherall other codecs are true gapless
10:49:05arpI'm tired of not having a portable mp3 player, and waiting for a vendor to get it right is annoying me
10:49:13arpyah, all my mp3's are lame encoded
10:49:26Slasherthen you should definately try rockbox :)
10:49:31arpI use my phone as an mp3 player, and I dont notice any problems with the gapless player
10:49:45arpbut I only have a 1GB sd card
10:50:02linuxstbarp: I've been using my H140 with Rockbox as my main player for a few months, and I'm very happy with it.
10:50:18arpwhat capacity is the h140?
10:50:24linuxstb40GB :)
10:50:34linuxstbThere is also a H120...
10:50:35arpgood
10:50:43ashridahH140's are getting more difficult to find now tho
10:51:06ashridahmostly been replaced by the H340 in retail, which rockbox hasn't been ported to, although they can still be found
10:51:31arpyah, and its still over $400, heh
10:51:50arpcheapest is like $439
10:52:21arpeven h120 is pricey, heh
10:52:41arpI have a slimx cd player that I've loved for a number of years
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10:53:24arph120 for $400 or xs202 for $250
10:53:27arptough choice!
10:54:08arpanyone here have the xs202?
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11:16:57arpoh I see, it only supports the 220 not 202
11:17:01arphow confusing :)
11:17:15arpI guess I'll play the waiting game a little longer
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12:05:52HCl220?
12:06:03HCl220 what?
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12:54:13amiconnhi
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12:55:36MoosHola !
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13:31:25muesli-reh
13:33:11amiconnhirsch? ;)
13:33:41muesli-ahm..mist..hier gehts ja englisch zu ;)
13:34:07Moosdutsch men :)
13:38:10muesli-:)
13:38:30muesli-does somebody use trillian 3.1 ?
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13:40:07 Join linuxstb [0] (n=503a2beb@labb.contactor.se)
13:46:38linuxstbHello all. I found the problem with my ALAC decoder causing the PCM buffer to flush when a new track was initialised.
13:46:42 Join stripwax_ [0] (n=stripwax@213-228-241-36.dsl.prodigynet.co.uk)
13:47:22FebsHi folks. If there are any Archos users here, can you tell me whether the backlight fade-in/fade-out works on the Archos, or if that is an iriver only feature?
13:47:31FebsI'm working on updating the manual and wikimanual.
13:48:16linuxstbThe decoder was calling rb->seek_buffer to skip unwanted parts of the file header. This in turn caused playback.c to flush the audio buffer. Replacing seek_buffer with advance_buffer solved the problem, but I don't think that is logical behaviour for the seek_buffer() function.
13:48:25linuxstbFebs: I don't know.
13:48:47amiconnFebs: Iriver onlky
13:48:50amiconn*only
13:49:40FebsThanks.
13:50:18FebsThat's what I thought, but wanted to be accurate.
13:50:38amiconnAre you trying to split the manual per model?
13:51:53FebsNo, all I am doing is copying over the parts of the hard copy manual to the page WikiManual so that there is a reference available (mostly for iriver users) prior to release.
13:52:02FebsAs I find things in the manual that are outdated, I am updating them.
13:52:11FebsAnd then I will mail the updated file to Cassandra.
13:52:19amiconnThe 2.5 release won't be an iriver release
13:52:23FebsI understand.
13:53:13FebsRight now, there is no manual available for iriver users (with iriver buttons, etc.) so the wikimanual will serve as an interim manual until there is a iriver release and a formal manual is released.
13:54:32FebsI am changing some things in the manual that are needlessly player-specific (i.e., use of the word "Jukebox" when the more neutral "player" would suffice) to make it easier to adapt later to other player models.
13:54:52amiconnplayer is less neutral than jukebox
13:55:26linuxstbMy H140 says "Multi-codec Jukebox" on the front...
13:55:34amiconnIn the rockbox world, 'player' almost always means the archos 'player' family (Jukebox 5000, 6000, Studio 10, Studio 20)
13:55:39FebsHm. I see what you mean.
13:55:52amiconn...to distinguish from the recorder models
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13:56:03stripwax_DAP is more neutral
13:56:12FebsBut the manual used Jukebox with a capital "J," which I found confusing.
13:56:34linuxstbMaybe just change to lower-case - "jukebox".
13:56:37amiconnYes, that's because all archos hd models start with 'Jukebox ...'
13:56:46amiconn...and needs to be changed anyway
13:56:56amiconnThe Ondio has no 'Jukebox' in front
13:57:05FebsRight. What do folks think of "DAP"?
13:57:08amiconnI'd say just use 'jukebox' (small j)
13:57:09linuxstbDAP ignores the recording features (and FM radio...)
13:57:19linuxstbDigital Audio Player...
13:57:44linuxstbamiconn: I agree.
13:58:36FebsSounds good. I'll put something at the beginning of the manual defining the terms that are used in the manual ... (not that anyone will read that section ...)
13:59:33linuxstbIs anyone planning any major commits before midnight?
13:59:50amiconnI want to commit runtime db support for archos
14:00
14:00:20amiconnTouches database.c, mpeg.c and mpeg.h
14:01:33linuxstbI'm very happy with my ALAC decoder (it's more efficient than FLAC), but can't commit it until I get home next weekend - which is too late.
14:01:42FebsAnd Cassandra, if you read this in the IRC logs, I will e-mail you my revisions shortly. You are and I are rarely on IRC at the same time (I can't access IRC from work) but I do read the logs, so let me know if you have any other suggestions.
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14:08:21Mooslinuxstb: it's never too late, you'll can do it in 2 weeks :)
14:08:43webguest49Hi all. linuxstb- could you explain why ALAC is more efficient than FLAC, please? will ALAC be included in iRiver's supported codecs?
14:10:43amiconnlinuxstb: My guess is that wavpack is still more efficient than ALAC, or am I wrong?
14:11:11linuxstbYes, Wavpack is of course the "best". But ALAC is second, FLAC is third - in terms of CPU needed to decode a file.
14:11:55amiconnFLAC isn't even realtime with all files...
14:12:50linuxstbIŽm sure the FLAC format is no more complicated than ALAC, but the reverse-engineered ALAC decoder I used is orders of magnitude simpler than libFLAC.
14:13:03amiconnAnyway, I don't care much about lossless compression
14:13:41ender`what about TTA?
14:13:45amiconnImho such files are too large for usage on a DAP, and if I really have much space I can use plain pcm as well
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14:14:37linuxstbI use lossless on my PC, so I don't like to encode them again for my iRiver. But when I fill the HD up, I probably will.
14:15:02linuxstbThere is also too much choice in lossy codecs - I'm too lazy to do listening tests to find the best one for my ears.
14:16:39linuxstbwebguest49: I've finished an ALAC decoder for Rockbox, but probably won't be able to commit it for a couple of weeks - until after the "feature freeze".
14:17:22Moosmaybe for iriver release :)
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14:20:02webguest49that's good news, thanks :-]
14:20:12linuxstbender`: I've never used TTA, but if you want to see it added to Rockbox, add info about it to the SoundCodecs wiki page.
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14:20:28ender`ok
14:21:31linuxstbAAC is probably the next codec IŽll look at - unless someone else gets there first.
14:22:21amiconnImho someone with a clue should try to optimise FLAC, or we should take it out for a release. Same goes for MPC.
14:23:55Moosyeah Muse pack is so nice
14:24:04amiconnI never used it
14:24:07Moosand Flac too
14:25:04linuxstbI use FLAC, and most tracks play perfectly. I only get a very occasional drop-out. But maybe my kind of recordings (live bootlegs) are easier to decode.
14:25:39Moosfor MPC, it is not in real time :( currently
14:26:04Moosbuggish every 5 or 10 sec I don't remenber good
14:29:24webguest49I use mostly FLAC too -mainly studio recordings- I've noticed that sometimes, but very seldom, there is like 1s break during playback, maybe even less, it's like the data is send to the buffer or sth, I don't know...
14:30:43linuxstbwebguest49: Yes, that's the symptom of the FLAC decoder not quite being fast enough to decode in realtime. Sometimes the PCM buffer runs empty.
14:31:13amiconnbbl
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14:36:31preglowlinuxstb: faad2 looks niceish
14:36:46preglowi think it should give decent quality on emac platforms as well
14:39:05preglowwoops, gotta go
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14:42:18linuxstbGotta go too. Bye.
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14:51:06Slasherusb mode fixed
14:51:31Slasherwe did hit the max thread limit
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16:06:02SlasherHmm, are ints 32 bit on all targets rockbox currently supports?
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16:07:29Slasherah, never mind that is not any issue :)
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17:21:25edkentHi, can anyone tell me where to get v3 of the Iriver bootloader pathcher?
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18:18:12amiconnre
18:18:17amiconnSlasher: r u there?
18:19:06Slasheramiconn: hi, yes
18:19:40amiconnI got the impression that there might be something wrong with the USB acknowledge since the voice UI was introduced
18:20:06amiconnUSB from rockbox doesn't work; the logo appears but no drive in windows
18:20:14amiconnBootloader USB mode works
18:20:19Slasherno it works now (check the most recent cvs commit)
18:20:43Slasherbut you are correct, there was two problems
18:20:47amiconnAh
18:20:58amiconnI should compile a new build then
18:21:22Slasherinitially the usb acknowledgement thing was broken and i fixed that first. Then the we hit the max thread limit and i increased that
18:21:31amiconnI have another question
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18:22:10amiconnHow do you handle sending the initial track change event?
18:22:16amiconnI have the runtime db working now on archos, but it doesn't catch the first track (the one you start playback with)
18:23:02amiconnMy code properly sends the buffer/unbuffer event for this first track, but not the trackchange event (since there is no change)
18:23:37SlasherHmm.. if i remember correctly the playback code on iriver calls the buffer events when it finishes the current buffering
18:23:44Slasherah
18:24:10Slasherthat trackchange event is sent by the pcm buffer callback (so it's synced with the audio playback)
18:24:26amiconnHmm, it seems the iriver trackchange is also sent at startup
18:24:34Slasheryes it is
18:24:58amiconnThe problem is that I can't simply send the event at startup on archos, since it would then be send *before* the buffer events
18:25:16amiconn(which are sent when buffering is complete, i.e. after playback already started)
18:25:34SlasherHmm.. :/
18:25:49Slasherbut i will have to go now, back soon ->
18:26:06amiconnI would have to send these after buffering is complete, but I have no simple idea how this could work
18:26:25amiconnThe initial buffering is done by the same code as all later rebuffering
18:27:07amiconnI can commit my code, so this turns from adding features (not really anyway) into pure bugfixing ;-P
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18:43:47Slasherhehe :) i will soon commit a fix to the pops. It was simpler to fix than i thought
18:44:05amiconnI had an idea how to solve the initial track problem
18:44:43amiconnI can call the trackchange event when actual playback starts; but I have to generate the buffer event immediately before that
18:45:05XavierGrSlasher: reallyyyy????
18:45:35XavierGrThese pops are annoying...
18:45:49SlasherXavierGr: yep, we can let hardware do that. Just initializing IIS2CONFIG properly should be enough (at least it will fix the very annoying initial pop at boot)
18:46:22XavierGramiconn: What about the file scrolling in jpeg viewer? What buttons do you suggest?
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18:46:55amiconnBah, modem connection :/
18:46:56amiconn if (track_changed_callback)
18:46:56amiconn track_changed_callback(audio_current_track());
18:46:59amiconnoops
18:47:06amiconnA slight drawback is that starting playback now generates 2 bunches of buffer events (if more than one track can be buffered)
18:47:09XavierGrAlso it would be good someone to advice me how big to make the buffer.
18:48:39XavierGrSlasher: What's your preference in changing files from the jpeg viewer?
18:49:11SlasherXavierGr: Hmm, i haven't think about that but it sounds like a good feature
18:49:20XavierGr:)
18:49:36XavierGrCurrently it is set to up-down.
18:49:58XavierGrand if zoomed I will make it play+up-down.
18:50:14XavierGrBut maube my approach is wrong that's why I am asking.
18:53:06amiconnI would make it Play+Up/ Play+Down, always
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18:54:12XavierGrbut then it would be nuch of a hassle to scroll small pics.
18:54:28amiconnHmm?
18:54:47XavierGrand most people have smaller pics that 1280/1024
18:55:47amiconnI'm not sure at all about that
18:55:55amiconnDigicams yield way larger pics
18:56:25amiconnAnyway, before this feature can be committed, we need the button assignments for the other jpeg capable platforms as well
18:56:32amiconn(archos recorder, ondio)
18:56:57amiconnRecorder is easy, thanks to the many buttons, but Ondio will be a problem...
18:57:39XavierGrwell it would be easy to change anyway...
18:59:37XavierGr896pixels is the larget picture for recorders without zoom?
19:00
19:01:01amiconn896x512 pxiels without panning in the smallest zoom level
19:01:25amiconnIt's simple - 8x (linear) display resolution
19:01:38XavierGryes that what I did just confirmed it.
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19:02:06XavierGrso to make the #if define:
19:03:02XavierGr#if CONFIG_KEYPAD == IRIVER_H100_PAD
19:03:27XavierGr#define MAX_Y_SIZE 1024
19:03:53XavierGror to take another argument for the model?
19:04:31amiconnI would simply use the same combo for switching pics, regardless of picture size
19:05:05amiconnChanging the meaning of buttons within one process would be very confusing imho
19:05:24Slasherhmm, does somebody know how the line out and headphone connector are connected (or how they are separate from each other)?
19:05:59amiconnImagine scrolling through a dir of pictures. The first 5 pics are small, so 'Down' would choose the next pic. The next pic is big, and all of a sudden 'Down' would no longer change pics
19:06:10amiconnI guess this would be very confusing for the user
19:06:41amiconnIf you don't like button combos, there are 2 free buttons for prev/next pic
19:06:49amiconnPlay/Rec
19:07:58XavierGrhmm that is another option...
19:08:51XavierGrWhich will be next? Play (but it is upper than rec) or rec (which is more of a cancel button)
19:09:33amiconnI'd say Play=next, Rec=prev
19:09:49***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
19:09:50XavierGryes...
19:11:07XavierGralso the buffer must be target dependant I think.
19:11:44XavierGrI have set pointers (which is # of entries) to 2000. And the buffer (which holds only names not paths) to 10000.
19:11:53XavierGrthat is 12KB.
19:12:05amiconnErgo won't work on archos
19:12:19XavierGrErgo? What that means?
19:12:30amiconnThere are ~7KB plugin ram left with the current jpeg.rock
19:12:44amiconnYour code will take some more
19:13:11XavierGrthen I can make a define to make it 500 and 4000
19:13:32amiconnErgo is latin, meaning 'that means'
19:14:13XavierGr4.5kb is good then?
19:15:10amiconnI don't know how much larger the code will get with your additions, so we can only adjust after compiling it for archos
19:15:38XavierGrmy additions are not that big. anyway guess you are right.
19:15:44amiconn500/2500 would be linear reduction
19:15:54XavierGririver memory is ~700KB
19:15:56XavierGr?
19:16:01amiconnyup
19:16:04amiconnplenty...
19:16:31XavierGrgreat!
19:17:02XavierGrwhat about the Ondio?
19:17:32amiconnOndio is the as the recorder memory-wise
19:17:40XavierGrok then
19:17:41amiconn*is the same as...
19:22:48XavierGrwhich is the play button define for "Play"?
19:23:52amiconnBUTTON_ON
19:24:00amiconngtg, bbl
19:24:06 Part amiconn
19:24:09XavierGrbye and thanks
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19:33:21XavierGrnow only the alphabetical sorting remains...
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19:35:07Slashercommitted the "pop fix"
19:36:25crwlrockbox only plays classical music now?
19:36:40Slasherhehe :D
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19:37:04Slasherthe annoying dc offset should have been mostly fixed now
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19:37:23hshahthe what what Slasher? (soz ive just entered the irc)
19:37:39hshahand woo hoo they allowed us to stop that idiotic beeping :p
19:37:43Slasherhshah: just committed another fix for the playback pops
19:37:55Slasher.. :D
19:37:58linuxstbSlasher: Did you read in the logs that I found my ALAC problem?
19:38:04Slasheryeh, i fixed that too
19:38:06XavierGrSlasher Are they competely removed?
19:38:16Slasherlinuxstb: Hmm, not yet (i will check that)
19:38:44SlasherXavierGr: i am not sure.. at least with my sennheiser headphones they seem to be gone
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19:40:21Slasherlinuxstb: ah, you had a problem with the seek_buffer
19:40:33XavierGrGreat! I will start testing immediately.
19:41:06linuxstbSlasher: Yes. I didnŽ't realise that using seek_buffer() would flush the PCM buffer.
19:42:21Slasherlinuxstb: do you think it would be better if codecs could call the buffer flushing function?
19:42:51linuxstbEither that, or playback.c flushes the buffer before telling the codec to seek.
19:44:14Slasherhmm, flushing the buffer before would work too? i will try that
19:46:50linuxstbI think it would. But maybe the codecs could call a seek_completed() function to tell the playback code if the seek was successful (or not). That function would flush the buffer - so we are back to your first idea.
19:48:19linuxstbAnyway, it's not urgent - my ALAC code is working perfectly now with advance_buffer(),
19:48:48Slasheri do it now before the feature freeze.. :)
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19:55:06linuxstb Slasher: I think a seek_completed() function is probably the best approach - if you flush the buffer before telling a codec to seek, the codec may add more data before seeking.
19:56:25linuxstbBut I've got to go - 20 seconds left on the machine and no more coins...
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20:20:55lost|X40i hvae one quick question. On the feature comparison page, there is listing that I don't know what it means: " FF/FR with sound". would someone mind explaining
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20:25:21FebsRight now you don't hear anything as you FF/RW. That feature request is for a feature similar to the iriver firmware where you can hear something as you go to give you some idea of where in the song you are.
20:26:49lost|X40oh, ok
20:27:00lost|X40thanks
20:27:11lost|X40seems obvious now
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20:32:51hshahcan some dev please add the mode and multiple align in wps b4 tomorrow!
20:33:26HClwhy before tomorrow?
20:33:37hshahfeature freeze
20:33:42HCloh right.
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