| 00:02:25 | | Quit ashridah ("uni") |
| 00:03:44 | NekoNoNiaow | any idea of how to tweak the configure settings so mac os x is detected and gemoss is compiled with XP_MACOSX defined ? |
| 00:05:24 | Strath | i'm sure there is |
| 00:06:11 | NekoNoNiaow | certainly, but i don't know a bit about configure :) |
| 00:07:03 | Strath | :) |
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| 00:28:01 | NekoNoNiaow | cool, everything compiles, even the testbed |
| 00:29:53 | | Quit Aison ("( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 3.72 :: www.XLhost.de )") |
| 00:29:54 | NekoNoNiaow | i'll try to run this tomorrow |
| 00:30:12 | NekoNoNiaow | need to sleep :) |
| 00:30:15 | NekoNoNiaow | bye |
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| 03:35:37 | | Join webguest67 [0] (n=53470d3d@labb.contactor.se) |
| 03:35:45 | webguest67 | hi |
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| 04:39:14 | Leperkawn | Huzzah for the h3x0! |
| 04:39:25 | Leperkawn | Once again, as a non programmer, is there anything I can test/do? |
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| 07:17:15 | LinusN | morning B4gder |
| 07:19:05 | B4gder | morning |
| 07:20:25 | LinusN | it's cold in here, must be the freeze |
| 07:20:38 | B4gder | hey |
| 07:20:44 | B4gder | no such jokes at this hour |
| 07:20:50 | B4gder | ;-) |
| 07:20:53 | LinusN | :-) |
| 07:21:01 | B4gder | haven't had my first coffee yet |
| 07:21:05 | B4gder | still brewing |
| 07:21:33 | B4gder | and |
| 07:21:44 | B4gder | my new RAM I installed yday seem defective |
| 07:22:11 | B4gder | one of those days |
| 07:26:16 | amiconn | morning rb |
| 07:26:25 | LinusN | B4gder: defective? |
| 07:27:11 | LinusN | amiconn: mooooning |
| 07:27:15 | Bger | morning :) |
| 07:27:33 | B4gder | LinusN: yes, my machine seems to have become... "weird" and unstable with it |
| 07:27:43 | LinusN | @home? |
| 07:27:48 | B4gder | yes |
| 07:27:53 | LinusN | ouch indeed |
| 07:28:03 | LinusN | which mb? |
| 07:28:15 | B4gder | 2 x 512MB, pc3200 |
| 07:28:20 | LinusN | which mb? |
| 07:28:26 | LinusN | motherboard |
| 07:28:52 | B4gder | ah, asus A7V8X-X |
| 07:30:40 | Bger | B4gder: memtest86 ? |
| 07:30:54 | B4gder | I haven't had the time to investigate yet |
| 07:31:29 | Bger | also, are settings taked out from the SPD ... |
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| 07:45:13 | | Quit Noel_sad_song ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 07:48:10 | * | Bger is very happy because of the BDMing |
| 07:55:25 | B4gder | BDM is short for "Bring Da Magic", right? |
| 07:55:35 | B4gder | :-P |
| 07:55:37 | Bger | right :P |
| 07:56:00 | Bger | or "Break Da Machine" :) |
| 07:56:04 | B4gder | hehe |
| 07:56:45 | Bger | but in the case of Linus's BDMing i'm sure it'll be the first :) |
| 07:59:06 | LinusN | don't be so sure :-9 |
| 07:59:34 | Bger | :P |
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| 09:14:40 | | Nick Lynx_awy is now known as Lynx_ (n=lynx@tina-10-4.genetik.uni-koeln.de) |
| 09:15:26 | Bger | LinusN: u said 2-3 days ago (maybe) that the default Power management of the hdd when the iriver is connected to USB is written in the 2kbit eeprom chip |
| 09:15:30 | Bger | iirc |
| 09:15:37 | LinusN | yes |
| 09:15:54 | Bger | is there a way to reprogram it ? |
| 09:16:14 | LinusN | yes, but you can't do it without hardware modification |
| 09:16:29 | Bger | oh, right |
| 09:18:26 | Bger | i think it's bad (at least for the battery and probably for the drive) to be constantly spinning when it's in usb mode for some hours |
| 09:18:38 | B4gder | the rc5-72 compo is 4 days away from 1000 days |
| 09:18:52 | B4gder | 0.252% complete |
| 09:18:52 | LinusN | yes, but that should really be taken care of by the operating system, imho |
| 09:19:08 | LinusN | B4gder: how encouraging :-) |
| 09:19:15 | B4gder | yeps, really close now |
| 09:19:22 | LinusN | lol |
| 09:19:29 | B4gder | "we'll |
| 09:19:29 | B4gder | hit 100% in 386,798 days at yesterday's rate" |
| 09:19:39 | Bger | LinusN: say this to Billy... |
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| 09:40:46 | Slasher | Hmm, eeprom chip can't be reprogrammed without hardware modification or is there some protected sector in the chip? |
| 09:41:49 | Bger | Slasher: this is the second EEPROM chip |
| 09:42:00 | Bger | connected directly to the USB->ATA bridge |
| 09:42:39 | Slasher | ah :) |
| 09:43:55 | Bger | and it contains the default settings for the bridge |
| 09:44:43 | Bger | http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IriverHardwareComponents#ISSI_IS25C02_2kbit_EEPROM |
| 10:00 |
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| 10:31:44 | | Quit DangerousDan ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org") |
| 10:36:44 | LinusN | i just made a nice change in the wps display code |
| 10:36:50 | LinusN | not committed yet |
| 10:36:56 | Bger | what change ? :) |
| 10:36:59 | LinusN | it allows for enums in the ?<> conditionals |
| 10:37:09 | LinusN | the repeat mode tag now looks like this: %?mr<Off|All|One|Shuffle> |
| 10:37:15 | Bger | good :) |
| 10:37:17 | LinusN | much nicer |
| 10:37:26 | LinusN | and %mr without condition returns the enum value (1 is the lowest) |
| 10:37:35 | LinusN | %mm is the playmode |
| 10:37:40 | Bger | LinusN: can you add and clock tag for rtc units ? O:-) |
| 10:37:51 | LinusN | don't push it :-) |
| 10:38:01 | Bger | ok,ok..:) |
| 10:38:06 | LinusN | %?mp<Stop|Play|Pause|Ffwd|Rewind> |
| 10:38:48 | LinusN | sorry, repeat mode is %mm |
| 10:38:59 | LinusN | %mr is the remote hold |
| 10:39:32 | Bger | http://www.semdesigns.com/Products/Obfuscators/index.html?Google=GeneralObfuscation blah :( |
| 10:39:40 | LinusN | the enums combined with the preloaded bitmaps will be really cool |
| 10:39:42 | CoCoLUS | and why exactly is it mr and not remotehold? :) |
| 10:40:02 | LinusN | CoCoLUS: you don't know why? |
| 10:41:14 | CoCoLUS | because senseless abbreviations are much cooler then wasting a few letters? |
| 10:42:01 | LinusN | 1) because the parser becomes way more complicated |
| 10:42:16 | LinusN | 2) because you will need a much larger buffer for the wps storage |
| 10:43:03 | CoCoLUS | how often do you code the parser, how often do users create new wps? |
| 10:43:25 | LinusN | CoCoLUS: you do the parser then, and send us the patch |
| 10:43:37 | LinusN | it's my spare time |
| 10:45:15 | LinusN | on the archos, both data and code space is crucial |
| 10:45:23 | CoCoLUS | with all the talk about making it useable for the user (the runtimedb), it seems inapt do have wps files you can only read with a seperate tag-table |
| 10:46:28 | LinusN | even if the wps tags were plaintext, wps programming would still be difficult |
| 10:47:06 | CoCoLUS | i don't think so - understanding a more complex wps from someone else is a lot easier if you don't have to look up a tag |
| 10:47:18 | LinusN | i agree that the wps syntax is intimidating |
| 10:47:26 | CoCoLUS | fear-inducing :) |
| 10:48:49 | CoCoLUS | well, wasn't the general consensus that the wps code needs a rewriting, anyway? |
| 10:48:59 | LinusN | sure |
| 10:49:27 | LinusN | but not mainly because of the syntax |
| 10:50:00 | LinusN | more because the general, line-based approach is limited |
| 10:53:46 | CoCoLUS | you'd need a full blown box-model... ugh.... reminds me of css... text floating around boxes (images) etc. |
| 10:55:27 | LinusN | probably, yuck |
| 10:56:33 | | Quit epl ("leaving") |
| 10:56:46 | amiconn | LinusN: Does your enum patch reduce code size? |
| 10:57:21 | amiconn | CoCoLUS: The box based approach for wps would be way simpler. Just absolute positioning with absolute sizes |
| 10:57:25 | | Quit HET2 ("This computer has gone to sleep") |
| 10:57:45 | amiconn | (expressed in pixels on bitmap displays, and in characters on the mplayer) |
| 10:58:18 | CoCoLUS | and if a defined textbox is too small for the text (eg, a very long song title)? |
| 10:58:34 | amiconn | Then it will scroll |
| 10:58:46 | amiconn | ...if scrolling for that element is enabled |
| 10:59:49 | LinusN | amiconn: i think so |
| 11:00 |
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| 11:02:15 | CoCoLUS | amiconn, a model as you describe it would have a pretty big disadvantage though, you'd need different wps files for each model/display? |
| 11:02:51 | amiconn | That's also the case with today's approach |
| 11:02:55 | CoCoLUS | like some websites have differnet stylesheets for different resolutions |
| 11:03:21 | amiconn | You can use recorder wps files on the iriver with no problem today, but it won't work on the player |
| 11:04:07 | Bger | yep, but today's approach is only different between char and bitmap displays ... |
| 11:05:06 | Bger | hm, in fact the result will be nearly the same |
| 11:05:57 | amiconn | yes |
| 11:06:14 | amiconn | One disadvantage with a boxed layout is that it depends on the font size |
| 11:06:18 | CoCoLUS | if the new model would use relative positioning (like "bottom right" or "center"), the problem would be solved, wouldn't it? |
| 11:06:52 | CoCoLUS | add a automatically reduced font size for smaller displays... |
| 11:10:24 | Bger | CoCoLUS: the problem is different |
| 11:10:35 | Bger | 5pt point is 5pt on all bitmap displays ... |
| 11:11:24 | * | Bger thinks that the box layot will have a great advantage in things that can be done ... |
| 11:11:52 | Bger | but if the box is 6pt high and the font is 8pt |
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| 11:13:06 | CoCoLUS | then the font needs to be switched for a smaller font |
| 11:13:31 | Bger | CoCoLUS: currently rb supports *only* 2 fonts : system & UI |
| 11:13:31 | amiconn | Relative positioning still makes sense, at least positioning relative to left border/center/right border, and top border/center/bottom border |
| 11:14:01 | Bger | for sure |
| 11:21:17 | Bger | this way WPS made for example for recorder can look pretty good on iriver |
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| 11:25:27 | HCl | ahh! people! o.o |
| 11:25:37 | Bger | ah, HCl |
| 11:25:48 | HCl | hi :p |
| 11:26:32 | Bger | how's runtimedb's documentation :p |
| 11:26:50 | HCl | the runtime database is pretty well documented |
| 11:26:55 | HCl | maybe slightly out of date |
| 11:27:04 | HCl | its mostly the searchengine / databox that needs docs |
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| 12:50:07 | webguest00 | i saw on the news on your website that linus managed to run bdm on his h320, what does that mean ? |
| 12:50:24 | LinusN | it means that i can run a debugger on it |
| 12:50:41 | LinusN | and develop a boot loader |
| 12:51:02 | ashridah | HUZZAH! |
| 12:51:09 | webguest00 | yes |
| 12:51:22 | webguest00 | so it near that we soon have the new firmware? |
| 12:51:40 | ashridah | it means it's progressing |
| 12:52:03 | LinusN | a working h300 firmware is still quite far away |
| 12:52:39 | ashridah | LinusN: do you have a partially decoded firmware for the 3xx like you did for the 1xx series? |
| 12:52:54 | Febs_away | webguest00: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IriverFAQ#Will_Rockbox_be_released_for_the |
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| 12:53:12 | LinusN | ashridah: i can disassemble the h300 firmware if i want |
| 12:54:17 | * | LinusN found a bug in the multi-align wps code |
| 12:55:42 | preglow | LinusN: congrats! |
| 12:55:50 | preglow | LinusN: how did you solve the power issue? |
| 12:56:02 | LinusN | i haven't solved it |
| 12:56:08 | LinusN | but i found a workaround |
| 12:56:30 | preglow | which is? |
| 12:56:40 | LinusN | if i hold Play when the bdm connects, the power survives the reset |
| 12:56:59 | Bger | :) |
| 12:57:03 | preglow | well, that's not the worst hack ever |
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| 12:57:25 | LinusN | the power control chip is a really complicated beast |
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| 13:00 |
| 13:01:04 | LinusN | the string merge in the multialign code is naive to say the least |
| 13:01:51 | LinusN | and it fails miserably if the align tags aren't in left to right order |
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| 15:06:24 | webguest42 | hi |
| 15:06:36 | Bger | hi |
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| 15:07:14 | webguest42 | emm does anyone know what new features will be on the h300 when made |
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| 15:08:08 | | Nick webguest42 is now known as mmm (n=534638d2@labb.contactor.se) |
| 15:08:19 | | Nick mmm is now known as Mongey (n=534638d2@labb.contactor.se) |
| 15:08:27 | LinusN | Mongey: no, we don't know |
| 15:08:35 | LinusN | we're not psychic :-) |
| 15:09:29 | Mongey | do you know if there could be a really better feature |
| 15:09:31 | Bger | Mongey: it'll start probably with about all that's working on iriver h1x0 now ... |
| 15:09:58 | Bger | in the beginning it'l be b/w only |
| 15:10:04 | Mongey | oh |
| 15:10:12 | Bger | no USB host at all ... |
| 15:10:27 | Bger | no video .. |
| 15:10:30 | Mongey | ever |
| 15:10:49 | Bger | but you can start iriver fw if you want any of these |
| 15:11:29 | henrikb | Hi LinusN , Interested in a patch that moves credits.c to a plugin? |
| 15:11:30 | Mongey | is it the first DAP yous have done with a colour screen |
| 15:11:41 | LinusN | henrikb: sure |
| 15:11:43 | Bger | it's not done |
| 15:12:06 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 15:12:16 | Bger | the other candidate for this "title" is iaudio x5, but it's very quiet on this front recently |
| 15:13:01 | | Quit phaedrus961 ("Leaving") |
| 15:13:51 | Mongey | but will everyone on RB finish the h1x0 then if the bootloader was done by then move to the x5 or h300 |
| 15:14:02 | Bger | btw, Linus, the similarities between h1x0 and h3x0's hardware will help you in writing the bootloader, won't they? |
| 15:14:11 | LinusN | Mongey: "move to"? |
| 15:14:17 | LinusN | Bger: yes |
| 15:15:03 | LinusN | rockbox is never "finished", not on any platform |
| 15:15:10 | Mongey | really |
| 15:15:17 | Mongey | thats really cool |
| 15:15:39 | LinusN | we still work on the oldest archos devices |
| 15:15:40 | Bger | sorry for the silly question, but what *exactly* you do through the BDM ? |
| 15:15:51 | Bger | i know what it is for |
| 15:15:55 | LinusN | the bdm is a special debug port on the cpu itself |
| 15:16:07 | Bger | yes, and you run code on it |
| 15:16:13 | LinusN | so i can read/write the registers and memory |
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| 15:16:22 | Bger | yes |
| 15:16:22 | LinusN | so i connect the debugger via bdm |
| 15:16:28 | LinusN | gdb in this case |
| 15:16:32 | Bger | yep |
| 15:16:38 | LinusN | i can then download and run code on it |
| 15:17:02 | diway | hi! |
| 15:17:05 | Bger | what code |
| 15:17:13 | LinusN | the boot loader, for instance |
| 15:17:29 | henrikb | LinusN: mail or patch tracker |
| 15:17:32 | LinusN | or small test programs |
| 15:17:37 | LinusN | henrikb: patch tracker |
| 15:18:34 | diway | I've a "little" pb with my iriver 120. I succesfully flashed it with rockbox some months ago and now I've a 'loading firmware: result -1' :/ Any idea ? |
| 15:18:48 | | Join phaedrus961 [0] (n=Unknown@p54AE39C4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 15:18:55 | LinusN | diway: did you install rockbox? |
| 15:18:59 | diway | yep |
| 15:19:18 | diway | it was disabled bur I instelled it |
| 15:19:48 | diway | everything was fine until today :/ |
| 15:20:08 | LinusN | -1 means that it can't find the "rockbox.iriver" file |
| 15:21:58 | diway | yep, I deleted it use the original firmware, but I did that some months ago and it still worked until today |
| 15:22:34 | LinusN | diway: so reinstall it |
| 15:22:38 | diway | and now, I can't even connect to my iriver to upload that file |
| 15:22:42 | LinusN | and do a scandisk |
| 15:22:50 | diway | no access :/ |
| 15:22:54 | Bger | LinusN: some months ago .... |
| 15:22:54 | LinusN | can't connect? |
| 15:22:58 | diway | nope |
| 15:23:11 | LinusN | which boot loader version? |
| 15:23:12 | Bger | the bootloader's USB mode is more recent iirc |
| 15:23:35 | diway | an old on |
| 15:23:44 | diway | may I would say |
| 15:24:01 | Bger | diway: any guesses about the date u've installed it ? |
| 15:24:04 | LinusN | it should say which boot loader version it is when it starts |
| 15:24:32 | diway | is there a version number displayed ? |
| 15:24:38 | LinusN | should be |
| 15:24:39 | diway | I don't think there is on mine |
| 15:24:42 | diway | wait, checking... |
| 15:24:50 | LinusN | "Rockboot <something>" |
| 15:25:39 | Mongey | is wat next linus Write a GDB stub for the serial port |
| 15:26:09 | LinusN | Mongey: next is to find out enough about the hardware to make a boot loader |
| 15:26:39 | Bger | this is more near to mine question |
| 15:26:48 | diway | LinusN, nope, nothing, sorry |
| 15:27:06 | Mongey | oh and what are the things that you dont know with the hardware |
| 15:27:10 | Mongey | lcd |
| 15:27:25 | ashridah | diway: does it get to irivers firmware if you hold record while pressing play? |
| 15:27:35 | diway | and btw, I can't swich it off, I've to wait the battery is dead or reset it |
| 15:28:54 | diway | "starting original firmware" |
| 15:28:58 | diway | and nothing... |
| 15:29:09 | ashridah | weird |
| 15:29:21 | | Quit Mongey ("CGI:IRC") |
| 15:29:41 | diway | my hdd may be dead :/ |
| 15:30:00 | ashridah | the original firmware usually gets a bit further than that if the hd's dead |
| 15:30:12 | diway | :// |
| 15:30:26 | ashridah | (at least, iirc, i don't know all the modes of failure for the firmware) |
| 15:31:01 | ashridah | crap. 11:30pm. |
| 15:31:05 | | Quit ashridah ("skeep") |
| 15:33:52 | LinusN | diway: did you charge your batteries? |
| 15:34:24 | diway | powser cable is plugged atm |
| 15:34:36 | Psy-Dead | at both ends? |
| 15:34:48 | diway | hum, yep :) |
| 15:35:08 | LinusN | diway: how long has it been charging? |
| 15:35:28 | diway | 1-2 minutes |
| 15:36:18 | LinusN | wait half an hour and try again |
| 15:36:19 | LinusN | http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IriverFAQ#The_original_firmware_no_longer_ |
| 15:36:33 | Bger | LinusN: and what does the code you "download" to the coldfire do mostly? |
| 15:36:52 | diway | oh, ok, thx! |
| 15:37:10 | LinusN | Bger: tests, like try to access the hard drive etc |
| 15:37:13 | Bger | trying to "communicate" with other components? |
| 15:37:18 | Bger | aha:) |
| 15:37:45 | LinusN | one benefit of the bdm is also that i can program the flash |
| 15:38:10 | Bger | and test "prealpha" versions of the bootloader |
| 15:38:41 | LinusN | nah, only if something goes wrong, so i can't use the firmware upgrade in the orig firmware |
| 15:39:22 | Bger | do you already have an idea about the "unknown" chip ? |
| 15:39:28 | Bger | what is it for |
| 15:39:34 | LinusN | which one? |
| 15:39:54 | Bger | http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IriverH3XXHardwareComponents#Unknown_Chip |
| 15:40:13 | LinusN | no i don't |
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| 16:00 |
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| 16:22:24 | | Join adiamas [0] (n=adiamas@12.109.187.84) |
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| 16:45:55 | Mode | "#rockbox +o adi|home " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) |
| 16:51:50 | Bger | bye all |
| 16:52:00 | | Quit Bger ("gtg") |
| 16:53:24 | webguest01 | Hi all. A strange thing happened... I was using firmware 2005-08-16 and today I wanted to upgrade to 2005-08-25. By accident I have also removed the patched ihp_120.hex file. So, I have decided to do the whole process once again. Everything is ok now, but there is no .rockbox nor ihp_120.hex displayed on the screen; there is only rockbox.iriver. I'm sure they are there because I've tried to delete all the files connected with rockbox: .rockbox; ro |
| 16:57:34 | webguest01 | god damn how stupid I am; I didn't check show all files in the settings, sorry for that; nevermind :) |
| 17:00 |
| 17:00:30 | | Nick adi|home is now known as adiamas (n=adiamas@12.109.187.84) |
| 17:02:02 | amiconn | webguest01: You don't need to keep ihp_120.hex on your box once you flashed it |
| 17:04:43 | | Join linuxstb [0] (n=503a2beb@labb.contactor.se) |
| 17:06:58 | adiamas | god i love seeing this channel this full. |
| 17:10:12 | amiconn | adiamas: Linus or Bagder wanted something from you iirc |
| 17:10:27 | adiamas | yup... already took care of it :) |
| 17:11:16 | adiamas | it's amazing to me.. this channel is a little bit more then 6 months behind the project being created, and the channel has been around 3.5 years |
| 17:12:08 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 17:16:22 | HCl | who is adiamas ? |
| 17:16:53 | adiamas | adiamas is the channel owner |
| 17:17:09 | adiamas | long ago developer... been MIA for just about 18 months |
| 17:17:13 | adiamas | maybe a bit longer |
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| 18:51:48 | lost|X40 | so, i recently installed rockbox on my iHP, on the 21st. yesterday, i booted into the stock firmware to record a conference, and after 15 minutes, it stopped recording. Now it won't record more than 6 seconds. I tried defragging and it said there was corruption. So i ran badblocks, and it didn't find anything. So I went ahead and formatted it completely. HTat didn't work. Any ideas on why this may be happening? |
| 18:53:03 | bagawk | lost|X40, no idea |
| 18:54:30 | lost|X40 | what are the chances this has something to do with the hacked firmware/bootloader (not rockbox itself, since it has been wiped out at this point) |
| 18:56:23 | Lear | lost|x40 what do you mean by format didn't work? still recording problems? |
| 18:56:50 | Lear | full or quick format? |
| 18:57:04 | lost|X40 | full format, still recording problems |
| 18:57:19 | lost|X40 | format went through fine |
| 18:57:55 | | Join Nibbler [0] (n=sven@port-212-202-77-14.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 18:58:46 | lost|X40 | it seems to me that the firmware change makes this unlikely, except that it's the only major change to the thing since it stopped working fully |
| 18:59:39 | Lear | I guess something could have gone wrong in the flash/patching, but it does seem unlikely, as you say... |
| 18:59:47 | Lear | The battery is decently charged? |
| 19:00 |
| 19:00:02 | lost|X40 | yea, full charge |
| 19:01:43 | lost|X40 | i'll try reflashing iwth a couple different verions of the bootloader and report back, just wanted to see if there was maybe something obvious i wasn't seeing |
| 19:01:48 | Lear | Could be worth trying a new patch and flash round, double checking that the right files are used... That's what I'd do anyway. |
| 19:03:05 | lost|X40 | yea, ok, thanks for thinking about it |
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| 19:56:19 | preglow | linuxstb: any codec news? |
| 19:56:56 | linuxstb | ALAC is working nicely, but I've done nothing else codec-wise. |
| 19:57:16 | preglow | ahh, thought you started working on aac |
| 19:57:44 | linuxstb | I can't link my laptop to the net, so can't download anything. |
| 19:57:46 | Moos | or MPC :D |
| 19:57:57 | preglow | Moos: mpc is a mess i wont touch for a while |
| 19:58:12 | preglow | i was thinking about perhaps looking at speex again |
| 19:58:18 | linuxstb | But my mp4 parser works perfectly with the AAC files I've tested with it. AAC gapless is going to be hard. |
| 19:58:30 | Moos | preglow: very good plan :) |
| 19:58:43 | preglow | linuxstb: how come? no standard? |
| 19:58:45 | linuxstb | Same problems as MP3, but no lame-type tags to "fix" it. |
| 19:58:46 | Moos | linuxstb: good luck |
| 19:58:58 | Lear | doesn't itunes or nero support gapless aac? |
| 19:59:06 | linuxstb | I added a link to a HydrogenAudio forum thread about it on the SoundCodecs wiki page. |
| 19:59:11 | preglow | linuxstb: someone is bound to come up with a winamp style gapless postfixer, we'll just use that for aac as well |
| 19:59:36 | linuxstb | Reading that thread, it seems Apple may be planning something for the next version of iTunes, so the concensus was to wait and see what they do. |
| 19:59:51 | Lear | mp4 supports custom data somehow ("atoms"), so there should be a way... :) |
| 19:59:57 | linuxstb | But we have to get the codec working first. |
| 20:00 |
| 20:00:42 | Lear | obviously... |
| 20:00:50 | linuxstb | preglow: Is speex floating point? I had a quick glance at it, and it seems that way. |
| 20:00:56 | preglow | linuxstb: it's both |
| 20:01:06 | Lear | partially fixed-point at least. |
| 20:01:10 | preglow | linuxstb: parts still are floating point only, but it's very possible to make it work with fixed point only |
| 20:01:15 | | Join _DangerousDan [0] (n=Miranda@newtpulsifer.campus.luth.se) |
| 20:02:18 | linuxstb | I can't think of many missing codecs now - apart from AAC and Speex. We now have the difficult work of getting them all working perfectly. |
| 20:02:58 | preglow | indeed |
| 20:03:03 | preglow | i'll try out speex now |
| 20:03:38 | linuxstb | I would like to try AAC, but I'm back at work next week, so not sure if I will have any time. I'll mention it here if I try anything. |
| 20:03:58 | preglow | i'd like to try to make faad2 work, but i'll give speex a go first |
| 20:04:19 | * | linuxstb remembers WMA is also "missing" |
| 20:04:37 | lost|X40 | hmm, so flash to stock firmware didn't work to fix my recording problem, any other ideas? |
| 20:04:46 | Moos | preglow: hehe voice UI could use this speex |
| 20:04:52 | preglow | Moos: yes, indeed |
| 20:06:12 | linuxstb | I'm curious about the H3x0 port - do any active devs actually own one (apart from Linus)? |
| 20:06:39 | Moos | maybe Bger |
| 20:07:06 | Moos | not a lot of h300 devs currently :) |
| 20:07:25 | preglow | all iriver devs are h300 devs as well |
| 20:07:32 | preglow | since most of the code will be the same |
| 20:07:39 | Moos | hehe tue |
| 20:07:51 | preglow | devs for the h300 specific parts will come when the bootloader is up |
| 20:08:10 | linuxstb | Everything in "apps" - but not the firmware side. But it seems Linus is keen atm. |
| 20:08:40 | amiconn | preglow: While I'd like to see speex support, I think the existing codecs that aren't really up to the task yet should be optimised before adding new ones |
| 20:09:01 | Moos | oh yeah :) |
| 20:09:12 | amiconn | I think the current status of flac and mpc make iriver rockbox look rather half-baked |
| 20:09:36 | linuxstb | We just need to be clear which codecs are "production quality" and which are not. |
| 20:10:01 | amiconn | Someone should apply and test the .wav patch. Cvs .wav support is really limited with no seek capability |
| 20:10:11 | preglow | amiconn: i'm looking for a bit lighter work now |
| 20:10:34 | preglow | flac and mpc i don't care about anymore |
| 20:11:07 | preglow | the flac code is a bloody nightmare, and the mpc implementation is flawed |
| 20:11:16 | linuxstb | I'm motivated to work on FLAC, but not immediately. |
| 20:12:20 | linuxstb | preglow: I agree. After seeing the ALAC decoder in one nice clear .c file, I can't understand why libFLAC is so complicated. |
| 20:12:34 | preglow | because he tried to write c++ |
| 20:12:38 | preglow | but in c |
| 20:12:42 | preglow | and he took it to extremes |
| 20:12:51 | linuxstb | Maybe we will need to rewrite it in C then. |
| 20:13:10 | preglow | there are mallocs all over the place as well :/ |
| 20:13:15 | preglow | a rewrite would be very nice |
| 20:13:21 | preglow | but that will take lots of time |
| 20:13:30 | | Quit DangerousDan (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 20:13:37 | preglow | after getting my mits on wavpack, i personally dont care about flac anymore |
| 20:13:46 | preglow | sure, support would be nice and all, but i can't summon the motivation |
| 20:14:33 | amiconn | My point is that flac must be either optimised to at least work correctly for all compression levels, or we need to drop flac for release |
| 20:14:41 | amiconn | Does the iriver fw support flac? |
| 20:14:55 | linuxstb | Would it be sensible to mark some codecs as "experimental", so they are not compiled by default? |
| 20:15:10 | linuxstb | amiconn: No - no lossless codecs at all. |
| 20:16:16 | preglow | yes, sure, flac is not ready for release |
| 20:16:19 | preglow | nor is mpc |
| 20:16:26 | paugh | preglow: does the flac codec just need optimising? i would have thought it to be one of the lightest.. |
| 20:16:28 | preglow | and both libmad and tremor needs minor stroking |
| 20:16:36 | preglow | paugh: well, then you're wrong |
| 20:16:39 | linuxstb | I would hate to see FLAC support completely removed from Rockbox - it's very close. |
| 20:17:09 | preglow | i think i've got one opt for flac lined up, btw |
| 20:17:16 | Lear | preglow: libmad can't need much at least. |
| 20:17:17 | preglow | i just need to benchmark it to see if it even counts |
| 20:17:20 | linuxstb | Interestingly, the ALAC decoder author said that FLAC was simpler to decode than ALAC - but his ALAC decoder runs significantly faster than libFLAC on the H1x0. |
| 20:17:25 | preglow | Lear: oh no, just some layer1/2 work |
| 20:17:26 | amiconn | flac -8 skips like hell on some tracks |
| 20:17:35 | paugh | yeah i see that |
| 20:18:00 | preglow | flac needs to use iram |
| 20:18:08 | linuxstb | amiconn: I think your experiences are worse than most, but it's definitely an issue. |
| 20:18:10 | preglow | but thanks to the way its coded, that's not trivial |
| 20:18:15 | paugh | locks the player on funky sample rates too. |
| 20:18:54 | linuxstb | preglow: What's the problem with iram? |
| 20:19:09 | amiconn | I wonder why lossless should be harder than lossy |
| 20:19:28 | linuxstb | More input data to process? |
| 20:19:43 | amiconn | I wouldn't mind flac support being removed, as I won't use it except for experimenting with it |
| 20:19:53 | amiconn | I don't see the real point in lossless compression |
| 20:19:59 | preglow | linuxstb: it mallocs everything |
| 20:20:00 | paugh | for what it's worth, flac is very important to me. |
| 20:20:01 | amiconn | ...for audio |
| 20:20:26 | linuxstb | preglow: How about writing an iram-malloc set of functions that allocate parts of the iram? |
| 20:21:01 | preglow | well, if it always mallocs the same amount of space, that can work |
| 20:21:14 | amiconn | (1) If I rip my CDs, I have the lossless original anyway (the CD). (2) lossless compression doesn't really gain much, so either I use uncompressed PCM if I can afford the diskspace, or if I can't afford the diskspace I use lossy compression |
| 20:21:30 | preglow | amiconn: cds detoriorate really fast :OP |
| 20:21:41 | linuxstb | amiconn: The main purpose is to create a lossless backup of your CDs. |
| 20:21:50 | preglow | amiconn: last argument isn't really good, if you ask me, wavpack for instance can compress really well |
| 20:21:59 | preglow | a lot better than half size, in some cases |
| 20:22:09 | preglow | and flac isn't far behind |
| 20:22:26 | linuxstb | But that's still 700 kbps |
| 20:22:27 | amiconn | I found no track that any of flac or wavpack could compress to less than half the original size |
| 20:22:49 | paugh | amiconn, depends on the content |
| 20:22:50 | amiconn | Got 70% original size for my test album |
| 20:23:00 | linuxstb | If they've been recorded at a low volume, then they do - many live bootlegs are like that. |
| 20:23:21 | paugh | classical music packs down a long way for example |
| 20:24:02 | amiconn | Re deterioration of CDs: I only had exactly one CD that failed in my whole collection, and that was replaced by the german distribution of the label at no cost, after >6 years (!) |
| 20:25:03 | linuxstb | It's also a pain to have to re-rip your collection if you want to re-encode to a different lossy format. It's a slightly easier task if you have FLAC versions. |
| 20:25:06 | amiconn | linuxstb: ABBA - More Gold <= no live recording |
| 20:25:40 | amiconn | linuxstb: re-ripping is easy... |
| 20:26:13 | paugh | amiconn, but time consuming |
| 20:26:16 | Lear | still, a lot of shuffling of cd:s, so he does have a point... |
| 20:26:50 | preglow | a lot of my cds go below 50% |
| 20:26:53 | preglow | haven't tried that many |
| 20:27:29 | linuxstb | Large hard drives for PCs are now cheap, and I'm sure in a few years portables will be large enough to store an average CD collection losslessly. I just don't see any future in lossy compression. |
| 20:27:33 | amiconn | linuxstb: I don't think it's easier to get the album from a lossless encoding than re-ripping. I won't store a backup of my CDs on the PC for sure |
| 20:28:01 | linuxstb | amiconn: You can store 8-10 FLAC'ed CDs on a single-layer DVD-R |
| 20:28:41 | amiconn | I can't. No DVD writer |
| 20:28:47 | paugh | amiconn, also, my pc is my jukebox. my cds gather dust in the rack and have done for a long time. |
| 20:29:01 | Lear | with a program like foobar2000, transcoding is very convenient... |
| 20:29:08 | amiconn | Hehe, my jukebox is my jukebox, much more convenient than the PC |
| 20:29:33 | amiconn | ..and certainly better sounding than the crappy laptop sound chip |
| 20:29:42 | amiconn | ...even with lossy compression |
| 20:32:07 | preglow | heh |
| 20:33:59 | preglow | no, lossy compression is just fine for me |
| 20:34:29 | linuxstb | I've just updated the SoundCodecs wiki page to remove the claim that FLAC is real-time :( |
| 20:36:29 | linuxstb | ALAC is running with about 60%-70% boost on my test CDs - some recent "alternative" studio CDs. This is without any real effort at optimisation - I'm sure the EMAC could help a lot there. |
| 20:39:50 | preglow | yes, it can |
| 20:39:52 | preglow | i had a look |
| 20:40:03 | preglow | it's got the same kind of filter inner loop flac has |
| 20:40:08 | preglow | using any iram? |
| 20:40:41 | linuxstb | Yes - the temporary 32-bit output buffer is in IRAM - it is exactly 32KB. |
| 20:41:03 | linuxstb | I did tests with various buffers, and that seems to make the biggest difference. |
| 20:41:51 | linuxstb | I've also started work on unrolling and optimising the two special cases that the author refers to in alac.c - but haven't progressed beyond the obvious yet. |
| 20:42:22 | linuxstb | It's those that should be EMAC'd I think. |
| 20:42:28 | preglow | hmm |
| 20:42:34 | preglow | seems speex might need libogg |
| 20:43:17 | linuxstb | That's fun... |
| 20:43:37 | linuxstb | What does Tremor use? |
| 20:43:50 | linuxstb | Could you borrow parts of Tremor for Speex? |
| 20:44:31 | amiconn | Hmm, maybe we could give more IRAM to codecs, but that requires lowering the main stack |
| 20:45:05 | amiconn | Currently the core uses ~60 KB of its 64 KB, 32 KB of that is the main stack... |
| 20:45:59 | Lear | linuxstb: tremor uses a kind of integrated libbogg. it's only two .c files or so... |
| 20:46:52 | linuxstb | Do we know the maximum usage of the main stack? |
| 20:51:16 | linuxstb | Are all the new targets (iaudio, H320) the same clock speed with the same amount of IRAM? Do they all have EMAC units? |
| 20:51:33 | linuxstb | i.e. are future targets going to be easier or harder than the H1x0? |
| 20:52:17 | | Quit TCK (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 20:53:12 | lost|X40 | so, any chance that anyone here can help me with this recording problem? (stops recording ater 6 seconds) |
| 20:53:20 | amiconn | linuxstb: H3x0 is identical, iAudio X5 has a bit more IRAM (128KB instead of 96) |
| 20:54:13 | amiconn | All the capabilities you mentioned depend on the CPU. H1x0, H3x0 and some iAudios have MCF5249 |
| 20:54:24 | amiconn | iAudio X5 has SCF5250 |
| 20:54:38 | linuxstb | Thanks. |
| 20:56:36 | linuxstb | Another quick question - do either of the sims support colour yet? i.e. is there a H320 sim? |
| 20:56:51 | amiconn | nopes |
| 20:57:54 | linuxstb | I've been toying with the idea of writing a wxWidgets simulator - so we can have a single sim for win32/X/MacOS |
| 20:58:10 | linuxstb | I mean a Rockbox simulator using wxWidgets. |
| 20:58:42 | amiconn | Hehe, no wxWidgets simulator using rockbox? ;) |
| 20:59:04 | linuxstb | That's another idea... |
| 20:59:49 | linuxstb | Are you familiar with wxWidgets? |
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| 21:00:47 | amiconn | linuxstb: Not at all |
| 21:02:02 | linuxstb | That's probably the problem. I've only used it a little, but the nice thing is that it compiles to native widgets on all targets - win32, GTK and Mac OS X (plus others) |
| 21:02:30 | Lear | it borrows the design from MFC though... |
| 21:04:07 | linuxstb | Anyway, I don't think I understand the current sims enough to do that job quickly. But I think it would be useful. |
| 21:04:40 | linuxstb | Gotta go. Bye. |
| 21:05:00 | | Quit linuxstb ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 21:08:25 | preglow | amiconn: more codec iram would be great, then i can optimise layer1/2 a bit more |
| 21:08:36 | preglow | amiconn: what does the core use the iram for, currently? |
| 21:08:56 | preglow | and is it only me, or is 32kb main stack a bit overkill? |
| 21:10:15 | amiconn | 32kb main stack is almost surely overkill |
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| 21:11:17 | amiconn | It was increased from the archos value (8KB) for early versions of rockboy |
| 21:11:47 | preglow | and btw, what do you think of letting the plugins share iram space with the codecs? |
| 21:11:51 | amiconn | I checked it with current rockbox. Debug->View OS stacks says the main stack is only 12% used |
| 21:12:00 | amiconn | They do... |
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| 21:12:14 | preglow | yes, but not changing it as well |
| 21:12:30 | preglow | how's that handled now? what happens if a plugin uses the iram? |
| 21:12:30 | amiconn | I think we should leave that as-is |
| 21:12:50 | preglow | i think plugins using iram are probably too intensive to be used while playing music anyway |
| 21:13:01 | amiconn | Fortunately the only plugin using IRAM is rockboy, and that needs the audio buffer anyway so it stops playback |
| 21:13:38 | amiconn | That was the problem with rockboy causing crashes when started while music was playing - it tried to copy its IRAM part before stopping music... |
| 21:14:06 | amiconn | We should simply establish this as a rule: Plugins must not use IRAM unless they stop playback beforehand |
| 21:14:23 | preglow | yes, speexdec.c uses libogg :/ |
| 21:14:44 | amiconn | I think we can reduce the main stack to at least a half (16KB), perhaps even to the same size as on archos (8KB) |
| 21:14:55 | preglow | i think 8kb should be enough |
| 21:14:56 | preglow | hmm |
| 21:15:04 | preglow | but 16kb extra iram for codecs would be a blast |
| 21:15:34 | amiconn | I'm not sure whether this falls under bugfixing though... |
| 21:16:26 | preglow | nah |
| 21:16:37 | Moos | it's not a nex feature :) |
| 21:16:40 | preglow | hrpmh, and tremor doesn't have all the ogg_ functions it needs |
| 21:17:26 | amiconn | OPtimising layer2 playback would be sweet |
| 21:17:42 | preglow | there are plenty of tables that should be in iram in layer12.c |
| 21:17:47 | preglow | none of them very large |
| 21:17:54 | preglow | mainly gain and quantisation tables |
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| 21:31:50 | preglow | man, layer 1 really is simple |
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| 21:33:32 | * | preglow just ran across his old imdct36 hack :/ |
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| 21:34:37 | amiconn | preglow: Something bad? |
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| 21:39:59 | preglow | vell, yes, it's incredibly ugly |
| 21:40:09 | NekoNoNiaow | hi |
| 21:40:10 | preglow | i think i'll try to implement the cacheseg hack again |
| 21:40:16 | NekoNoNiaow | i'm ugly ? |
| 21:40:17 | NekoNoNiaow | ;) |
| 21:41:29 | adiamas | no.. |
| 21:41:37 | adiamas | 'incredibly ugly' |
| 21:41:39 | adiamas | was the statement |
| 21:41:52 | NekoNoNiaow | good, that's better :) |
| 21:42:48 | preglow | perhaps i should spend some more time with libmad |
| 21:42:54 | preglow | synth_full isn't exactly pretty |
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| 22:34:41 | NekoNoNiaow | does anyone know approximately how much time qt takes to compile ? |
| 22:34:50 | NekoNoNiaow | on a 1 ghz machine |
| 22:38:20 | ender` | i'd guess about an hour |
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| 22:40:23 | NekoNoNiaow | i feared that :) |
| 22:40:24 | NekoNoNiaow | thanks |
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| 22:42:19 | preglow | amiconn: would you say tremor is relase quality? |
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| 23:18:14 | muesli- | hi |
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| 23:23:30 | NekoNoNiaow | time to sleep for me |
| 23:23:35 | NekoNoNiaow | hi and bye ;) |
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