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#rockbox log for 2005-09-08

00:00:03rasherstrike that "amiconn"
00:00:05amiconnlol
00:00:18pill:)
00:00:24rasherI blame tab-completion.
00:00:24amiconnhttp://www.computerbase.de/lexikon/Liste_der_ID3v1-Genres confirms it
00:00:45pilldamn
00:00:53pillthat's why i didn't seen crossover too
00:00:55pillsee*
00:01:15pilland drumnbass
00:01:21pillall my favorite genres
00:01:25pilli guess i'm doomed
00:01:52rasherWell I assume adding them to Rockbox is a good idea
00:01:58pillof course
00:01:59pill:)
00:02:23pilli could have done it
00:02:27pill:(
00:02:34 Join stripwax_ [0] (n=stripwax@i-83-67-214-206.freedom2surf.net)
00:02:51 Nick Sucka`away is now known as Sucka (n=NNSCRIPT@81.156.159.120)
00:02:52stripwax_evning
00:03:17pillhey stripwax
00:04:21rasherHm, looks like the >125 ones were added within the last few years
00:04:36pillas if these genres didn't exist in 2k2
00:04:44pillwell probably
00:05:12rasherSome php I wrote (don't ask why I was using php for id3 parsing) has the same list as Rockbox
00:05:17pilli agree genres like "christian gangsta" sound really 21st century, but drum & bass is old as shit
00:05:42***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:05:52stripwax_experiencing a bit of weirdness with latest daily build w.r.t Move To Next Folder (again). Seems I now get a popup saying "Codec Error" when it switches from the end of the last track in the folder to the first track in the next folder. My folders contain all oggs.
00:06:18stripwax_Not sure whether the problem is caused by the change to Move To Next Folder or by the macsr changes
00:06:55stripwax_at least Move To Next Folder now works ;-) (the Codec Error popup doesn't hamper playback, it carries on anyway)
00:08:35stripwax_I also got a weird message, "Dir List Is Full" or somesuch, earlier today before Rockbox completely hung. Can't find a way to reproduce that tho..
00:09:26pillthis is a folder limitation
00:09:29stripwax_What's the status of the code freeze?
00:09:55rasherIt'll be a while
00:09:58 Quit San (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:10:18stripwax_I mean, it's still frozen (right?). So cvs commits are exclusively for Archos bugfixes?
00:10:45rasherAny bugfixes
00:11:34stripwax_Oh, ok. I might take a look at getting Move To Next Folder do the right thing at the end of the last track of the last folder ...
00:11:35pillstripwax: for the dir list full: go to "General Settings" "System " Limits"
00:11:48pilland increase the limits
00:11:52stripwax_pill - I've ruled that out because I can't reproduce the problem I saw this morning..
00:12:06pillk
00:12:37 Quit Sucka ("a bird in the bush is worth two in your house")
00:12:47 Join Sucka [0] (n=NNSCRIPT@host81-156-159-120.range81-156.btcentralplus.com)
00:12:57stripwax_Oh, here's another one: I remember seeing a cvs log saying that Inverse Bar was now the default selector- but today I put on a new build, did a Reset Settings, and the selector is that little arrow. Did I imagine the default changing to Inverse Bar?
00:13:02pillrasher: so basically all there is to do is add the genres > 147 to the genres array?
00:13:10pill> 125
00:18:48rasherNo idea if that'll do it
00:19:01rasherTry it?
00:19:28rasherLooks like it will work
00:21:00amiconnShould be as simple as that. The function returning the genre gets the limit via sizeof(genres)/sizeof(char*)
00:21:51pillwell i never committed anything and to be honest i dont know what i need to do to do it properly
00:22:03pilli'd like to though
00:22:44rasherDo you have access?
00:22:50pillno
00:23:00pillas of now, i'm just a user
00:24:00 Join Mat [0] (n=51429e3c@labb.contactor.se)
00:24:14 Quit matsl (Remote closed the connection)
00:24:25 Join webguest03 [0] (n=d5ee402e@labb.contactor.se)
00:25:29rasherAh, well.. can't change that now
00:26:27pillwell, if i can be of any use, i'd love to contribute
00:27:05MoosBagder, Linus and Zagor gives CVS access :)
00:27:24Moosthe trium vira :)
00:27:27pillheh
00:27:49 Quit ashridah ("Leaving")
00:28:25Matrasher: do you see my pvmsg?
00:28:34rasherusually it works such that you submit a few patches, and one of them gets fed up with applying them and give you write-access
00:28:46rasherMat: Didn't get one.. Freenode is probably blocking it
00:28:56preglowstripwax_: i sincerely doubt the macsr changes enter into it
00:29:21stripwax_preglow cool. must be the Move To Next Folder logic then. which has been broken for a while now?
00:29:22 Join webguest40 [0] (n=55d212f3@labb.contactor.se)
00:29:31webguest40evening
00:29:37rasherMat: You need to be registred and identified with nickserv to be able to privmsg.
00:30:02webguest40hey ami are you around?
00:30:02 Quit Mat ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
00:30:19preglowstripwax_: the only error i think macsr errors could result in, are glitchy audio
00:30:25preglowcant imagine why it would give a codec error
00:30:29 Join Mat [0] (n=51429e3c@labb.contactor.se)
00:32:14 Join edx [0] (i=edx@p54A8679E.dip.t-dialin.net)
00:32:20stripwax_preglow - I didn't check out your changes so I don't know how much of the code was moved around. Move To Next Folder looks like the most likely candidate since it wasn't working before the change and it's not working (in a different way) after the change
00:32:26 Quit Mat (Client Quit)
00:33:21 Join Mathieu1 [0] (n=51429e3c@labb.contactor.se)
00:35:14rasherHeh.. "drivers/fat.c: In function `fat_time': drivers/fat.c:1069: error: `YEAR' undeclared (first use in this function)"
00:35:18Mathieu1what is the command for freenoode registration please I forget
00:35:19rasherlooks like someone needs to reconfigure
00:35:39stripwax_rasher - make clean?
00:35:51rasher /msg nickserv register password
00:35:59rasherstripwax_: or that
00:35:59Mathieu1thanks
00:36:12preglowrasher: reconfigure for me
00:36:24rasheryeah, make clean doens't cut it
00:36:27preglowindeed
00:36:50*rasher employs build-script magic
00:37:14preglowoh well
00:37:25preglowill go dream about greener pastures and faster codecs
00:37:27preglowlater, all
00:37:48 Quit preglow ("foop")
00:38:01Mathieu1rasher: pvmsg ;)
00:40:35rasherpill: That worked.. I now have "hardcore" displayed
00:40:41pilllucky you
00:40:44pilli dont :)
00:40:45rasheramiconn: Any reason why I shouldn't commit this?
00:40:54amiconnrasher: You need to reconfigure. This is caused by my change that the fat driver uses the build date as start date on non-rtc units
00:41:17amiconnNo more 2003-08-01 :)
00:41:55rasherIndeed
00:42:06rasherIt wasn't meant as a complaint
00:42:22 Join TCK [0] (i=TCK@85-210-26-58.dsl.pipex.com)
00:42:48stripwax_rasher - "hardcore" ?
00:43:04rasheras ID3v1 genre
00:43:20stripwax_heh
00:43:27amiconnrasher: I think the genre list complement is a bugfix...
00:43:57rasherI'd say that as well
00:44:04rasherThey seem widely accepted
00:44:30rasherAnd Rockbox really should have them
00:44:46pillerm
00:44:50pillof course
00:45:06pilli cant live without crossover, hardcore, drumnbass and christian rock
00:45:11rasherI'll have a look if anything's depending on the genre-list being a specific size
00:45:35rasherNot to mention BritPop!
00:46:07stripwax_man... watching The Apprentice USA is painful.
00:46:44webguest40hey ami you know the other day linus came in and we talk about the igp100? any more thoughts on that or if it is a possible target for a port of RB at a later stage?
00:46:57pillnd Negerpunk
00:46:58pillhahaha
00:47:17stripwax_ooh, iGp100?
00:47:18*stripwax_ googles
00:47:29pill1GB minidisc like drivers
00:47:31pilldrives*
00:47:33webguest40igp-100 with the dash
00:47:35rasherPretty much a repackaged ihp100 with smaller drives
00:47:37amiconnrasher: I already checked. The only reference is in id3_get_genre(), and that one gets the array size as I already mentioned
00:47:44stripwax_oh, neato.
00:47:52webguest40uses 1" drive
00:48:33stripwax_is it a 'current' model?
00:48:36pillno
00:48:40pill2YO
00:48:49rasheramiconn: For some reason I was under the illusion that id3_get_genre returned the genre number
00:48:55rasherWhich would be... silly.
00:48:58webguest40but h100 isnt exactly current either since they dont manufacture it anymore
00:49:00stripwax_pill ok thx..
00:49:08stripwax_webguest40 well, ... yes.
00:49:55amiconnrasher: No. It directly returns the genre string if there is one (id3v2), otherwise it returns a pointer into the genre list, derived from the genre number
00:50:13rasherYeah.. braindump here
00:50:13stripwax_Hrm. Googling suggests the igp100 uses 1.5GB of *flash*. But I'm sure that's crap
00:50:13amiconn...or NULL if out of bounds
00:50:27rasherStripwax: It is, I saw pictures
00:50:42webguest40just thought it might be real easy to port at a later stage when h100 rb is considered complete. nah it uses 1" hd.
00:51:09stripwax_rasher cool. yeah, seems to 'branded' a flash player even though it's got an hdd. weird.
00:51:13webguest40could be replaced with an even larger capacity 1"
00:51:17amiconnwebguest03: igp-100 should be an easy one, certainly easier than h-300
00:51:28webguest40k
00:51:44webguest40but is it worth it?
00:52:20amiconnI think so
00:52:28webguest40i mean i have never owned an archos so dont know if you took similar decisions in past with porting rb concerning archos players at that time which were 'out of date'
00:53:04rasherI actually wanted to buy a ihp-100 instead of the h120
00:53:07amiconnIt increases the user base, and hopefully the developer base, and it's a device with very similar hardware to one we already support
00:53:16rasherBut the only Danish shop claiming to have them didn't.
00:53:29amiconnThat means, it should be worth it even if the absolute number isn't that high
00:53:44stripwax_rasher - why would you want an ihp100 instead of h120?
00:53:54rasherEh, igp-100
00:53:56pillah
00:53:58pillheh
00:53:58amiconnWe ported to Ondio when it already was out of production
00:54:01webguest40so what can i do to help? i guess you would need some hardware (igp100)
00:54:02stripwax_heh..
00:54:26webguest40donation to rb fund or perhaps try to find an igp100 for sale?
00:54:59rasherI'm still curious about the economics of the rb fund
00:55:30amiconnI expext porting h-100 -> igp-100 will be easier than archos recorder -> ondio
00:55:37stripwax_do we see what the donations are being used for (like, e.g., the fund on www.nslu2-linux.org)
00:55:59rasherstripwax_: not directly
00:56:18rasherOccasionally there'll be a "we bought a gadget" somewhere
00:56:41 Quit Mathieu1 ("CGI:IRC")
00:56:50 Join Mathieu1 [0] (n=51429e3c@labb.contactor.se)
00:57:20stripwax_rasher hm. would be nice!
00:57:36stripwax_(sorry, this is the link I meant http://www.nslu2-linux.org/wiki/Info/DonationList)
00:58:14rasherI don't care much for the donation list, I must say.
00:58:23webguest40http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/i-river-MP3-Player-1-3-GB-Model-iGP-100_W0QQitemZ5806739537QQcategoryZ48683QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
00:58:35rasherBut "this is how much we've recieved: .. and this is what we've bought:"
00:58:36stripwax_I meant the second half of the page, which lists what the donations are being used for
00:58:37webguest40hmm there is only 1 igp for sale on ebay it seems
00:58:46rasherstripwax_: yeah
00:58:51webguest40unless i looked in wrong place or for wrong thing..
00:58:58rasherThat'd satisfy my curiousity
00:59:04thegeekactually
00:59:09thegeekmy brother has an igp-100
00:59:14thegeekit's harddrive is dead
00:59:20rasherooooh!
00:59:26thegeekit's a very rare hd, tiny 1.5 gb thing
00:59:28rasherDeveloper-fodder
00:59:29stripwax_webguest40 - go global, dude. well, ok, this turns up just one more. http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?cgiurl=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.com%2Fws%2F&fkr=1&from=R8&satitle=igp&category0=
00:59:30 Nick Sucka is now known as Sucka`away (n=NNSCRIPT@host81-156-159-120.range81-156.btcentralplus.com)
00:59:33thegeekindeed
00:59:38thegeekit's a quite nice player actually
00:59:45thegeekbut they are exceptionally rare these days
00:59:48stripwax_thegeek - and do www.span.com sell those hdds? :-)
01:00
01:00:12thegeekoh
01:00:16thegeeklet me see
01:00:20 Quit ender` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:00:28thegeekdont think so
01:00:29webguest40ah i found another. seems like a bargain
01:00:31thegeekit really is tiny
01:00:34webguest40http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5805604503&sspagename=ADME:L:RTQ:UK:1
01:00:39thegeekit's like a small memory card
01:00:40thegeekalmost
01:00:43stripwax_thegeek - they sell 0.85" and 1" drives .. so ... ?
01:00:50thegeekoh
01:00:54thegeeklet me check a bit closer;)
01:01:21stripwax_... although nothing as small as 1.5 GB :-(
01:01:41thegeekwell
01:01:45rasherSo he'll get a bigger harddisk
01:01:45 Quit Mathieu1 (Client Quit)
01:01:49rasherthat's hardly a problem
01:01:51stripwax_rasher ;-)
01:01:51thegeekI know the drives came in 4gb versions too
01:01:52 Join Mathieu1 [0] (n=51429e3c@labb.contactor.se)
01:02:04thegeekbut it was a wierd manufacturer
01:02:08thegeekI cant remember the name
01:02:12thegeekbut certainly not one of the top dogs
01:02:21stripwax_thegeek hrmph. unfortunate.
01:02:27webguest40con- something
01:02:30thegeek;)
01:02:47stripwax_Cornice
01:02:52webguest40yep
01:02:53stripwax_same as the rio niturs
01:02:55stripwax_nitrus
01:03:28thegeekthe producer was cornice
01:03:30thegeekatleast I think so
01:04:01stripwax_wonder if it's a standard interface
01:04:03*stripwax_ laughs
01:04:10thegeekit seems it's cf+
01:04:14thegeekone inch
01:04:19thegeekhttp://www.span.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=23_505
01:04:28thegeekone from that list would prob work
01:04:29thegeekbut.
01:04:35thegeekhe's already bought a zen micro
01:04:51rasherso steal the old one and send it to Linus ;)
01:04:53thegeekand it was cheaper than those drives;)
01:04:53thegeekhehe
01:04:58thegeekperhaps I will
01:05:02thegeekI'll hear with him
01:05:17thegeekit still works for radio
01:05:21webguest40so the old 1" cornice wasnt the same variety as these cf2 microdrives?
01:05:25thegeekbut he does not exactly use it
01:05:35thegeekI really don't know webguest40
01:05:41 Quit paugh ("Leaving")
01:05:46stripwax_Cornice stop manufacturing 1" drives: http://www.infoworld.com/article/05/05/04/HNcorniceseagate_1.html Guess that explains why igp is super-rare!
01:05:49webguest40cos a 8gig drive sounds reeally nice
01:06:10*stripwax_ is still scouring the shops for an mk4007gal ;-)
01:06:12thegeekhttp://www.span.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=23_505&products_id=5389
01:06:14thegeekin that picture
01:06:18thegeekyou see the "connector"
01:06:43thegeekI think the connector on the harddrive in the igp only has less than 10 wires
01:06:45thegeekbut damn
01:06:45rasherso tiny..
01:06:52thegeekit's so long since I looked at it
01:06:53stripwax_Yeah - from that news article I posted - I'd guess Seagate and Cornice hdds would be compatible
01:07:00thegeekmhm
01:07:18rasherHrm, it looks like the connector I saw yesterday in the FCC pdfs
01:07:25thegeekbut
01:07:27thegeekthing is
01:07:48thegeekI remeber the connector for the harddrive in the igp as slimmer than in those pictures
01:08:33thegeekhttp://www.mobilemag.com/content/images/1561_large.jpg
01:08:33thegeekthere
01:08:35thegeekthat's it
01:08:57webguest40hmm from the picture i took when i opened mine up i see a connector with 5 wires?
01:09:05thegeekyes
01:09:07webguest40yes just like the mobilemag link
01:09:08thegeekthat seems right
01:09:16thegeekI remember there beeing very few wires myself
01:09:18thegeekfor a harddrive
01:09:27rasherEh..
01:09:34*stripwax_ wonders if a rb port to igp would really be 'that easy'
01:09:40thegeekhah
01:09:42rasherThis FCC pdf looks like there are 5*4 wires
01:09:43thegeekwhy bother?
01:09:53thegeekI mean
01:09:58thegeekthere are _extremely_ few users
01:09:59thegeekAND
01:10:03thegeekthe few igp's left
01:10:08thegeekwill probably die in the near future
01:10:17thegeekI dont think the harddrive is very durable
01:10:31rasherHrm, not the same connector as that seagate
01:10:39 Quit Mathieu1 ("CGI:IRC")
01:10:39thegeekmy brothers just died, I think it dropped from his bed.. that's like 30 cm's or so
01:10:44thegeekindeed rasher
01:10:57thegeekit's been 9 months since I took a look at the igp;)
01:11:01rasherBut it's 20 wires, rather than 5
01:11:06thegeekoh
01:11:08thegeekyou sure?
01:11:28thegeekprobably right
01:11:55thegeekbut when I looked at the drive itself, the "wires" did _not_ look like they were seperated any more
01:11:57webguest40well my shot shows 5 bands or 4 wires each
01:12:02thegeekoh well
01:12:05thegeek;)
01:12:06thegeekhehe
01:12:07webguest405 bands of*
01:12:08thegeekI give up
01:12:32thegeekthey could be compatible then
01:12:35thegeekjust different connectors
01:12:39webguest40y
01:12:43rasherSounds likely
01:13:13thegeekI remember checking out if the player could take an sd-card instead of a harddrive
01:13:22webguest40hey thegeek whats gonna happen to your bros igp? :)
01:13:22stripwax_v unlikely
01:13:30thegeekno idea webguest40
01:13:36rasher"Please note, actual product may not be exactly as shown. Pictures are for guidance only." so they're telling me that the harddrive platter doesn't actually have a picture of a girl on it!?
01:13:37thegeekyes stripwax_
01:13:47thegeekbut it could perhaps do a cf+ card
01:14:02stripwax_hey; does my name still have a silly underscore at the end of it?
01:14:06thegeekI know there are storage cards for cf+, for pocket pc's and stuff
01:14:08*stripwax_ hates using Trillian as in irc client
01:14:11thegeekyes stripwax_
01:14:12thegeek;)
01:14:27webguest40hmm mine still works. since i paid about £95 for it a long time ago id rather source a cheaper but still working igp if i was to donate an igp to rb
01:16:36 Nick stripwax_ is now known as stripwax (n=stripwax@i-83-67-214-206.freedom2surf.net)
01:16:46*stripwax breathes a sigh of relief
01:17:05stripwaxhang on.. is it *still* showing uping with an underscore on it?
01:17:11webguest40nope
01:17:14stripwaxphew
01:17:26stripwax(although it still is for me! but it isn't for you)
01:18:51 Quit Moos (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- The professional IRC Client")
01:18:53webguest40hmm with any luck in a few days on ebay i should have won a igp for £13-14. still got a few days to mull over whether to put a bid in or not. i cant see anyone else getting the igp
01:20:58webguest40hey did any of you hear about the 'ipod nano'?
01:21:29rasherCan't miss it.
01:21:39webguest40http://www.misticriver.net/boards/showthread.php?t=28474
01:22:00webguest40looks nice but same old ipod photo underneath
01:23:50 Quit DangerousDan (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:24:54webguest40anybody here from the uk?
01:25:11stripwaxwebguest40 yeah, saw it on the news today.
01:25:16stripwaxwebguest03 - london
01:25:41webguest40see the england match?
01:26:01stripwaxonly a bit, actually missed the goal. was it actually a good game (didn't look it)
01:26:31webguest40no england played even worse than the sunday pub team
01:26:36stripwaxheh
01:26:40webguest40no one knew what they were doing
01:27:28webguest40svenn doesnt care either way. if they sack him they still have to pay up the rest of the millions he is owed in his contract i think
01:27:49webguest40money grabbing ba*****!
01:28:28 Nick Sucka`away is now known as Sucka (n=NNSCRIPT@host81-156-159-120.range81-156.btcentralplus.com)
01:35:09 Quit webguest40 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
01:44:08 Quit Sucka ("a bird in the bush is worth two in your house")
01:48:30pillhahahaha
01:48:37pilli love the last commit :)
01:50:26stripwaxgnight all
01:50:41 Part stripwax
01:50:55 Join Jason [0] (n=acd6620d@labb.contactor.se)
01:51:02JasonHi everyone
01:51:38Jasonhas anyone seen the stupid new iPod nano?
01:51:49 Join paugh [0] (n=pete@2001:5c0:8fff:ffff:8000:0:3e03:6822)
01:51:50zeyep
01:51:54zewhats stupid about it?
01:52:25Jasonit looks like a normal ipod that has shrunk in the washing machine
01:52:31zeyeah
01:52:41Jasonthe ipod mini range has been discontinued
01:53:17rasherpill: Someone didn't...
01:53:39rasherhttp://www.rockbox.org/mail/archive/rockbox-archive-2005-09/0120.shtml
01:54:04JasonWhen customising the wps for iriver, is it possible for it to display "Now Playing" on the top like the iPod's wps?
01:54:32rasherOf course, just disable the statusbar
01:55:02]RowaN[ipod nano is hd based?
01:55:07Jasonyea
01:55:09rasherNo, flash.
01:55:09ze]RowaN[: no, flash based
01:55:09amiconnrasher: Hmm, your list of additional genres seems to be different from wikipedia etc...
01:55:12Jasonit comes in 2 or 4GB sizes
01:55:19ze1 or 4G
01:55:19zeheh
01:55:24zeiirc
01:55:34rasheramiconn: Oh? Weird.. I nicked it from id3v2 (which in turns has it from id3lib I think)
01:55:41rasherI'll do some tests
01:55:43pillrasher: it's insane somebody actually reacted to that..
01:55:44amiconnhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ID3v1#Genres
01:55:50Jasoni wonder if a clock will be possible, or a way to record from the radio
01:55:52Jasonfm tuner
01:56:01rasheramiconn: I guess Winamp is the "reference"?
01:56:38rasherpill: I don't get it either (as witnessed by my reply)
01:56:45zeif i ever set genre's, i use id3 v2's text genre field and forget about any official number-based crap
01:57:58amiconnze: Personally I don't care about the genre field at all
01:58:01pilloh hahahaha
01:58:08pilli didn't read your reply
01:58:25pillwill he ever reply to that? :p
01:58:50 Quit ]RowaN[ ()
01:58:53rasherErp.. metal is there twice, what the..
01:59:13rasheroh, I messed up
01:59:21pilluhoh
01:59:33rasherthat should be "Heavy Metal" and "Black Metal"
01:59:40rasherI'll sort that once I've tested
01:59:41pillyeah
01:59:45pilltypo
01:59:47pilltypo
01:59:49pillbooh!
02:00
02:00:02rasherWell, faulty sed-expression really
02:00:09pillyes
02:00:14pillmore like that
02:00:29pillhmm, wtf is negerpunk anyway?
02:00:29amiconnrasher: That's not the only one; you separated "Christian rock" into "Christian" and "Rock"
02:00:41pilldid anyone ever tag a file that way?
02:00:47rasherI only have the last words of all of them :)
02:00:53pilloh
02:01:50rasherI'll fix them all, but first to make sure it's correctly ordered
02:02:02amiconnWho chose this silly 44100 Hz sample frequency as a standard???!!
02:03:01pillthe japs
02:03:21pillthe whole cdda standard is japanese
02:05:47***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:09:09zeit was to fit 74 minutes on the cd's that were available at the time
02:10:30amiconnYes, but why 44100? Why not 44000?
02:10:58zeheh
02:11:04 Quit Jason ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
02:11:11rasherbecause then it wouldn't be the double of 22050!
02:11:25zeyeah but was 22050 in use then?
02:11:35rasherI'm guessing no
02:11:48rasherIt wasn't an actual argument
02:11:49zei thought 22050 stemmed from being half of 44100
02:11:53zeheh
02:12:43amiconn44100 is an ugly number. Few possibilities to reduce ratios containing it...
02:14:11zeyeah
02:14:23 Quit _aLF ("Leaving")
02:14:44ze44100 is just bad in general
02:14:49rasheramiconn: The order of the tags is correct. I just created a bunch of files like "goa.mp3 -> genre=goa" etc.
02:14:54rasher(using winamp)
02:14:58rasherAnd they all show up right
02:15:06rasher(apart from my screwup of course)
02:16:15rasherOh.. there wasn't anything other than my screwup..
02:16:19rasherI'll commit right away
02:20:01rasherFixed.
02:20:02pilland no racism
02:20:05pillplease
02:20:06pillkthx
02:20:08pill:)
02:20:08pill:p
02:20:10rasher:-X
02:21:36pilli wonder why that guy overreacted that way..
02:23:20rasherI'm not even going to speculate.
02:23:25pillno
02:23:41pillhe was probably trying to start a useless netwar
02:23:52pillthe good, the bad, the pointless
02:24:08pillanyway nevermind
02:26:17rasherNot even the winamp forums seem to know what that genre is
02:26:22pillhehe
02:26:48pillit was probably a fantasy from someone at winamp
02:26:49rasherAlthough some guy is claiming that Winamp is going to get sued over it
02:26:54pill?
02:27:00rasherhttp://forums.winamp.com/showthread.php?s=a4be52f91acf2ecb15ee08f9cda93dcf&threadid=23431&highlight=negerpunk
02:27:10rasherAh, welcome to my phpsession.
02:27:25pillhaha
02:27:31rasherhttp://forums.winamp.com/showthread.php?threadid=23431 should do
02:27:35pillthat's why the swede reacted that way
02:27:51pillfirst link worked
02:27:52rasheroh yes, I knew that, but still...
02:28:06pillwell
02:28:33rasherMy reaction would have been the same if it had used the "other word"
02:28:41pillwinamp added weird genres, and no sue will ever lead to anything..
02:29:27rasherUh-oh.. it's mentioned in the commit-mail again.
02:29:57pillreally?
02:29:59pillwoah$
02:30:12pillcan you paste?
02:30:15rasherWell I changed the line with it
02:30:21rasherSo the diff shows it
02:30:27pillah
02:30:57rasherI like how he just goes "that word" and expects that everyone knows what he's talking about
02:31:04rasherBecause heaven forbid he should actually quote it
02:31:22rasherErm. I'll shut up now before I step on more toes.
02:31:48pillanyway, thanks for the fix
02:31:56pilli'll try it tomorrow morning
02:32:23rasherIt works as advertised
02:32:43pillno astually
02:32:45pilli'll try it nowx
02:33:29rasherGrab a bleeding edge build and knock yourself out
02:34:35pillyeah hold
02:35:06pilland after that bedtime
02:39:17rasherStrange that noone had bumped into that problem before
02:40:41pill:)
02:40:49pillthat's why i came into play :p
02:41:51pillperfect
02:41:53pillit works
02:42:04rasherGood
02:42:20pillthanks a bunch man
02:42:33pilli noticed this problem while on vacation
02:42:35pilland i was like
02:42:46pill"i should tell them"
02:42:52pilloh well
02:42:59pilli'm glad you sorted this out
02:43:08pilli need to be able to commit
02:43:54pillanyway, sleep well, and dont worry about that twisted "negerpunk" genre ;)
02:44:02pillthanks again
02:44:06pillgnight
02:44:16rasherYou're welcome, night
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06:08:59wackyseen austriancoder
06:09:04wacky!seen austriancoder
06:09:19wackyhey, where are your old cheap irc scripts ?
06:13:29wackyJust bought an iAudio X5, and I'd be *very* pleased to see a Rockbox port happening..
06:14:07wackyI can't stand those horrible firmwares anymore, neither iRiver's or iAudio's :) and since I broke my H120's LCD.. I must just wait!
06:14:11wackysee you guys
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06:48:04*LinusN listens to christian negerpunk
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07:11:23kurzhaarrockerChristian Negerpunk? Isn't that offensive? That name for a music style must have been invented by the ku klux clan. Only they wouldn't listen to it.
07:12:51LinusN:-)
07:13:20LinusNnegergangsta
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07:35:37amiconnmmorning
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07:45:14LinusNmorning amiconn
07:45:55amiconnLinusN: I'd rather not have had a look at the frame size/length calculation :/
07:46:24amiconnOur code isn't correct for a number of cases
07:47:22amiconn...and I still don't have a proper soltion for the accuracy problem with 44100/22050/11025 Hz
07:47:55amiconn...without 64bit arithmetics, that is
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07:49:44amiconn(1) mp3headerinfo() is wrong about the frame size of version 2 / version 2.5 with layer 1 and layer 2
07:49:58LinusN(1) oops :-)
07:50:08amiconn(2) layer 1 frame size isn't accurate for _any_ frequency
07:50:29LinusN(2) Oops again
07:51:30amiconnThe thing with (1) is that the number of samples / frame is halved for version 2/2.5 with layer 3, which the code correctly accounts for.
07:51:43amiconnBut for layer 1 and 2 this half-size rule is wrong
07:52:30LinusNaha
07:52:34amiconn(2) results from the fact that the layer 1 frame size granularity is 4 byte, while for layer 2 and 3 it is 1 byte
07:52:46amiconnThis also applies to the padding
07:52:56LinusNaha
07:54:26amiconnI'm working on a replacement for this function, but I'm still undecided about the length calculation ...
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07:59:20amiconnLinusN: The thing is whether we should account for possible overflows in rather theoretical constellations. I begin to think I should just ignore this...
07:59:36LinusNdo so
08:00
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08:04:12amiconnThe constellation where the overflow would occur first would be a mpeg version 2, 22050 Hz (or version 2.5, 11025 Hz) (!) file with layer 1 (!!) at 8 kbps (!!!). The filetime calculation would overflow for files >~ 40 hours...
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08:06:18LinusNkind of extreme :-)
08:08:19amiconnBle, I'm wrong
08:08:32amiconnLayer 1 has a higher minimum bitrate...
08:09:13amiconn...so the problem is even more theoretical
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08:31:13*B4gder does the slow and weird rfid dance
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08:39:59amiconnLinusN: Yesterday I did another >12 hour test recording (same settings as the other day, but splitting at 1 hour intervals)
08:40:07amiconnNo single error...
08:40:14LinusNwonderful
08:40:45amiconnTHere's still the problem with bitshifted frame data when recording from s/pdif...
08:42:02LinusNi guess there's nothing we can do about that
08:49:39amiconnMaybe we can... but that requires more experimentation, so it's a post-2.5 project for me
08:58:33amiconnWe can prevent the MAS from delivering shifted frame data... but we can probably stop it doing so when detecting it
08:58:43amiconn*We can't...
08:59:13amiconnI bet it correlates with s/pdif parity errors...
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09:09:20LinusNamiconn: probably
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09:16:20GaNgSta69hey ne1 on
09:19:34*LinusN doesn't see the "ne1 on" nick
09:19:46B4gder /whois ne1
09:19:51B4gderoops ;-)
09:19:51GaNgSta69shhh... lol
09:20:13GaNgSta69i was just comin 2 say.. massive fan of this shit for my h140.
09:20:15GaNgSta69butttt
09:20:46GaNgSta69the volume is low compared to the original .. just askin if there was a way to make it louder or anyhtin like that
09:20:57B4gderlower the bass and treble
09:21:15GaNgSta69alrite. il try now
09:21:33B4gderthe original firmware lowers them itself when you increase the volume
09:22:01GaNgSta69to zero u think if im on full vol
09:22:31GaNgSta69wayyy louder.. thanku
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09:55:55*HCl amuses himself over the svante email
10:00
10:00:26*HCl agrees with B4gder, but still thinks that a person getting so upset over a term thats not even meant in a racist way is something they really need to work on
10:00:40B4gderyes
10:03:30*HCl posts a comment
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10:19:30LinusNman, tinyurl is such a silly concept
10:19:41Zagorvery
10:20:52zei think its implimentation missed its actual usefulness by a few years or so
10:21:16zeand even at that, isn't what would've been ideal
10:23:14LinusNit's just so annoying, having no idea where the url will take me
10:23:48zeright, thats what i mean by not being ideal.. just because its shortening the url doesn't mean it necessarily has to remove all information about where it goes
10:24:40*LinusN googles for "negerpunk"
10:25:19B4gderthat is an insanely weird genre
10:25:47HCllike christian gangsta rap isn't o.o;
10:25:53B4gderhehe
10:26:14B4gderI wish they would announce the name of the ones who made that list up for public redicule
10:26:33B4gder:-P
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10:32:54LinusNfound it!!!
10:32:56LinusNhttp://www.mp3int.com/eng/download_mp3/162819/7213805/Separate_S-e-p-a-r-a-t-e/
10:33:25Zagor???
10:33:27LinusNGenre :Negerpunk
10:33:31Zagorah
10:33:52Zagorlovely web site...
10:34:37LinusNnow this is fun: http://www.digital-inn.de/showthread.php?p=856
10:35:03Zagorhaha
10:35:16LinusNof all genres...
10:35:35solex_http://www.royalbunker.de/ is quite special, too
10:36:33LinusNlol
10:36:54solex_damn, there's no english word for "pöbeln"
10:37:09B4gdermob perhaps
10:38:12LinusNin a few days, rockbox.org will make it to the top-10 in google for "negerpunk"
10:38:15solex_it's a verb :)
10:47:47LinusNhttp://www.bandiscographie.de/tibblekoeren/_47568_vara-mest-aelskade-julsanger.html
10:48:35Zagorthat's a fine example of negerpunk
10:48:43LinusNindeed
10:49:45ZagorI doubt there's anyone actually claiming there's a real genre called that. especially since it's a swedish (or at least non-english) word in the middle of all the english genre name.
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10:50:56LinusNfrom a no-longer-cached page, "The st louis punk page":
10:50:59LinusN"also, download and rate Fight brain damage, it's an energetic form of negerpunk"
10:51:39Zagorweird
10:51:44B4gdernow who would download a brain damage? ;-P
10:51:57B4gderoh, *fight* brain damage
10:52:01*B4gder grins
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11:08:26LinusNlunch time
11:14:45ashridahi can't believe someone got riled up over genre tags
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11:39:57HCl :p
11:46:47Zagorif anyone wants some headscratchning, help me crack this perl/utf8 double-encoding problem: http://bjorn.haxx.se/strftest.pl
11:48:45Zagorhaah, cracked it. just goes to show pasting is good for the brain. :-D
11:49:13HCl :P
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12:59:10]RowaN[guys the "Scroll Speed Setting Example" bit of text doesnt actually scroll if you're using a font thin enough to fit it all on the screen
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13:01:36]RowaN[wow flac working good now =]
13:15:37CoCoLUSwhy -should- it even scroll if it fits on the screen?
13:18:15crwlto make a usable example?
13:18:17crwlan
13:27:09]RowaN[thats what im saying.. make it longer so it does scroll, otherwise its a useless example
13:27:38CoCoLUSthe user sets the font, doesn't he?
13:28:10]RowaN[whats that got to do with the price of cheese
13:29:29]RowaN[rockfont-8 is thin enough that it fits on 1 line and doesnt scroll, so im not talking about any obscure fonts here
13:32:11CoCoLUSyou know, that saying goes "with todays's milk price" :P
13:35:30]RowaN[i used my imagination, creatively
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14:08:01preglownice little controversy on the mailing list
14:08:59LinusNhehe
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14:27:13tucozRegarding the scroll speed setting example not scrolling. Why not just change it to "Scroll Speed Setting Example Text", just like the step size
14:27:52tucozOr have it showing different strings for different sized fonts
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14:32:48tucozAnyways, it has to be > 32 chars to actually scroll while using the tiniest fonts.
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14:40:36]RowaN[cant the line just be set (forced) to scroll, so you dont have to worry about accomodating for character sizes in different fonts
14:40:54Zagorno, lines don't scroll if they don't have to
14:41:22tucozOr just change it to the standard example "The red fox..."
14:41:30tucoz..or something like that
14:41:44tucozThen, all examples can use the same font
14:41:52tucozerm, not font, string
14:43:37Zagoryes, the test string simply needs to be extended
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14:47:23]RowaN[just double whats there already perhaps, repeat the line i mean
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15:12:57tucozamiconn: are you here? I just wonder whether one of the shades of gray flicker for you when running the mandelbrot-plugin.
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15:14:17tucozIf not, then I guess there are minor differences in the h1x0 series.
15:15:43preglowwell, there probably are
15:16:12tucozI guess, does the shades flicker for you as well preglow?
15:21:52tucozgot to go, bye
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15:49:46preglowSlasheri: around?
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16:39:57HCl[16:08] muesli: please give that link linus http://www.hifiaktiv.at/diverses/testfrequenzen.htm maybe it will help him in any way
16:42:59HClthat svante person just won't stop, will he
16:43:13HClat least in one of his emails he acknowledged it to be his own shortcomings
16:45:42FebsIt's a ridiculous argument. I'm firmly opposed to racism, but I don't see how pretending words don't exist will help anything.
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19:14:02HClFebs: not just that, he used racism himself, heh.
19:14:27HClhis arguments are just totally not valid..
19:16:12FebsOn a happy subject, there's a nice review of Rockbox on dapreview: http://www.dapreview.net/content.php?review.221
19:16:18Febs^^happier
19:19:48CoCoLUS"Database creation is not really implemented."
19:19:57CoCoLUSseems like someone didn't read the wiki
19:21:57FebsRight. I also found it a little disappointing that they linked to the installation guide on MR instead of the one on the wiki that I spent a long time writing, but what can you do?
19:22:15FebsIt's still a very favorable write-up.
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19:53:43solex_Am I the first one to wish for a 'clear playlist' function?
19:53:49 Nick solex_ is now known as solex (n=jrschulz@c211183.adsl.hansenet.de)
19:55:22solexIt would be great if you could clear the list, while the current track continues to play
19:55:43solexand when the track is over, Rockbox should start with the first item in the new list
19:56:09solexoh forget it, sound like a new feature.
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21:24:16pillwoah
21:25:58pilli wouldn't have thought that id3 >125 patch would lead into a pointless arguing about racism and tolerance.
21:26:15pillthat is plain insane.
21:31:12pilli think this guy didn't play gta:sa a single minute.
21:31:29pillor he would have died instantly.
21:38:15 Join matsl [0] (n=matsl@1-1-4-2a.mal.sth.bostream.se)
21:38:16amiconnBleh. File playtime calculation for cbr mp2/mp3 is also imprecise :(
21:38:34amiconn...even more than vbr
21:39:12 Join Slasheri [0] (i=miipekk@ihme.org)
21:39:20HClsolex: no no, put the request on the requesttracker
21:39:41HCleven if there is a feature freeze, its still good to make suggestions, though they cannot be implemented at the time, they might in the future
21:40:16HClXD
21:40:20HClrockbox a political project?
21:40:22HClXD
21:40:23HCllmao.
21:54:25 Join solex_ [0] (n=jrschulz@d083066.adsl.hansenet.de)
21:55:39 Join ]RowaN[ [0] (i=a2b0y@82-43-212-52.cable.ubr10.newm.blueyonder.co.uk)
21:57:20]RowaN[i cant wait for the day when you dont need a degree in nuclear physics in order to add replay gain to your music collection without butchering the existing tags
21:57:26]RowaN[can't wait!
22:00
22:00:38 Quit Sucka ("a bird in the bush is worth two in your house")
22:02:13 Join webguest60 [0] (n=5087fe0e@labb.contactor.se)
22:04:26webguest60RowaN: why do you have differences between your "v1 and v2" tags?, if your music is tagged correcly in the first place its a no brainer
22:06:11***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:07:16webguest60applying Replay Gain with Fooar is a no brainer IF your music is tagged correctly.
22:07:33 Part webguest60
22:07:38 Quit solex (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:11:13 Quit atubbs ("leaving")
22:11:57 Join atubbs [0] (n=atubbs@ool-435634a8.dyn.optonline.net)
22:12:23solex_d
22:12:35solex_sorry
22:14:38]RowaN[differences? because id3v2 doesnt fit into id3v1
22:15:18 Join linuxstb [0] (n=linuxstb@i-83-67-212-170.freedom2surf.net)
22:18:53]RowaN[ah the latest beta has some more options, lets see
22:22:54]RowaN[still buggered, insists on overwriting v1 tags with v2 tags
22:23:07 Join preglow [0] (n=thomjoha@hekta.edt.aft.hist.no)
22:24:51preglowSlasheri, linuxstb: i take it none of you actually started on a wav writing scheme?
22:25:30linuxstbNo, not me.
22:26:58]RowaN[and the "properties" of a track doesnt even tell you if the replaygain is in id3v2 or ape or what
22:27:40 Quit atubbs ("leaving")
22:28:42linuxstbpreglow: I'm interested in using the EMAC in my ALAC decoder - do you have any pointers to documentation (apart from your source)?
22:29:25linuxstbI'm upset that FLAC is now beating it... :)
22:33:04preglowhaha
22:33:12preglowitll be easy to beat
22:33:27preglowthe filter loop will probably be the only place where you can benefit from it
22:33:45preglowthe things you should be looking to optimise, are thing on the form a += b
22:33:52preglowa += b*c
22:34:01preglowwhere b*c might easily be a 64 bit multiplication
22:35:14preglowb*c might also easily be emac optimisable if its a 64 bit multiplication, but pure 32 bit muls without an additional add will not be faster with emac
22:35:45preglowwhat ive optimised in libflac is just a very long mul and add chain, where the muls are 32 bit
22:35:51preglowall the other codecs use 64 bit muls
22:43:10linuxstbThe calculations I'm looking at in ALAC are of the form (a1-b)*c1+(a2-b)*c2+... etc where a and b are 32-bit and c is 16-bit. The result is stored in a 32-bit variable.
22:44:15linuxstbAny idea if that would benefit very much from an ASM routine?
22:48:42preglowyes, i think it would
22:48:48preglowcould you give me a line number and a file name?
22:48:52preglowin the alac distro
22:51:33linuxstbI've already started optimising the common cases in C, but the general case of the main loop I'm looking at is line 467 of alac.c
22:51:48linuxstb(in the original distribution)
22:52:52preglowwell, yes
22:53:00preglowthis is exactly the part of flac i have optimised
22:53:07linuxstbThat's what I thought.
22:53:11 Quit edx (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:53:14preglowthe fir filter loop
22:54:25preglowso
22:54:44preglowits clear from the implementation, this is a 32 bit mul
22:54:50preglowso you can use the emac unit in integer mode
22:54:55preglowlike ive done for flac
22:55:56linuxstbThe general cases (the author of the ALAC decoder seems to think these are the only cases) are 4 and 8 order cases.
22:56:46linuxstbWhen you say "32 bit mul" do you mean that the result is 32 bits?
22:56:53preglowyes
23:00
23:02:02linuxstbI don't know if you read it in the logs, but I managed to get libfaad2 compiling (sort of) in Rockbox. It gave me lots of ICE errors with gcc which I had to hack around. But I haven't got as far as trying to implement a codec yet.
23:03:29preglowhmm
23:03:37preglowany nasty hacks?
23:03:55preglowfiled any bug reports to the gcc people?
23:05:04linuxstbNo, I don't think they are very nasty. In fact, most of the problems were caused by the source mixing signed and unsigned variables in the same calculation. Changing the variables to the same type fixed the problem.
23:05:21preglowstrange, still
23:05:36linuxstbNo, I haven't reported any bugs - any idea how actively maintained the m68k parts of gcc are?
23:07:32linuxstbOne thing I noticed is that integer-only mode doesn't support "MAIN profile AAC". But I have no idea what that means, or if it's a problem. I also haven't finished getting the SSR profile decoder working. But again, I don't know anything about AAC, so I don't know if that's an issue either.
23:08:53preglowhmm
23:08:59preglowi think most things use the light profile
23:09:05preglowdont remember what its called
23:09:16preglowi dont think theyre very actively maintained
23:09:18linuxstbCorrection: Fixed-point mode doesn't support MAIN or SSR profiles - it's not an ICE problem that SSR isn't included.
23:10:02preglowwhat is ssr?
23:10:56linuxstbNo idea - just one of the many AAC profiles: MAIN, SSR, LTP and LD
23:11:43linuxstbAnd PS.
23:14:10preglowlc is the common one, i believe
23:15:50linuxstbI need to write a simple decoder (running on my PC) using libfaad2 - so I'll be able to do some tests then. But I don't have very many AAC files.
23:16:08preglowstill, lovely work
23:16:24preglowi wanted to get libfaad2 working myself, but probably would have given up when i hit the ice problems, heh
23:16:51preglowaac files are easily produced with free encoders
23:16:52linuxstbI'm not sure how motivated I am, but it's the major missing codec from Rockbox at the moment.
23:17:11preglowwell, thats more or less why i wanted to as well
23:17:22preglowive never used aac, so thats not why
23:18:50preglowseems lc and main are the most used, yes
23:18:53preglowssr is a streaming thing
23:19:22preglowthat is, mostly used with streaming, since it allows some bitrate/samplerate adjustments to be done on the fly
23:21:28linuxstbMy only hesitation about using AAC myself is that it seems to be even worse than MP3 when it comes to gapless.
23:22:50preglowa really embarassing fact, if you ask me
23:23:08preglowmy only hesitation is that its even more heavy patented than mp3, heh
23:23:12preglowsticking to oggs
23:23:24linuxstbThat's very true.
23:24:04preglowbut yeah
23:24:08preglowlc is the most used profile
23:24:26preglowdid anything happen about the faad2 license thing?
23:24:37linuxstbI do have a slight hesitation about adding ALAC to Rockbox - but as far as I know, Apple hasn't complained to the person who reverse-engineered the decoder.
23:24:54preglowwell, do they have any reason to do so?
23:24:57linuxstbI haven't found anything more about the license, so I don't know.
23:24:58preglowthey cant possibly win a case
23:25:09preglowreverseengineering is legal
23:25:40linuxstbThe only problem could be patents - but ALAC doesn't seem to do anything new from the comments I've read about it.
23:25:46preglowoh, no
23:25:54preglowfrom what ive read, its perfectly standard
23:26:03preglowadaptive fir and rice-like coding
23:26:52preglowbut if youre worried about that, i dont see why youre adding aac
23:26:59preglowwhich is ridden with patents
23:27:19linuxstbTrue :)
23:27:58preglowi say we just ignoreit
23:28:13preglowif someone complains and have a good case, we just remove it
23:28:36linuxstbThat would be a strong argument for making codec plugins completely independent from the core.
23:28:41preglowindeed
23:29:01preglowid really love to see that happen
23:29:04preglowand i expect it will, some day
23:29:12preglowbut i need to go now
23:29:18preglowsee you later
23:29:32linuxstbI'm not convinced - Rockbox is an audio firmware - what else is left if you take out the audio code.
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23:29:38preglowif youre wondering about doing the emac opt, i recommend you look at my flac opt
23:29:42preglowits pretty similar
23:29:50preglowill love to help out when im back
23:29:55linuxstbThat would have been my starting point.
23:30:01linuxstbHow long are you away for?
23:30:05preglowcouple of days more
23:30:22linuxstbHave fun.
23:30:26preglowyup, will, bye
23:30:28 Quit preglow ("leaving")
23:30:44 Quit webguest37 (Client Quit)
23:35:43 Join rasher [0] (n=3e4f4094@labb.contactor.se)
23:35:50rasher:-X
23:35:59rasherTroublemaker aboard.
23:42:53FebsI'll bet you didn't expect that tirade to result from adding genres, did you?
23:43:30pillhey rasher
23:46:18t0masgood night :)
23:46:39t0masrasher: I almost felt the need to react to your discussion
23:46:51t0masNegerpunk = valid dutch
23:46:56t0masNeger = someone from africa
23:47:04t0maspunk = the punk music style
23:47:26t0masnegerpunk is a form of punk with a lot of rithm (mainly on african instruments)
23:48:28FebsThat certainly doesn't sound very oppressive to me.
23:49:38t0masindeed
23:49:48t0masbut neger is not like the english nigger....
23:49:51t0masit's not negative here
23:50:18]RowaN[i want negerpunk at my wedding
23:50:20]RowaN[and funeral
23:50:28t0masghehe
23:50:42]RowaN[negerpunk for everyone!
23:50:46FebsIs the term "negerpunk" of Dutch origin, or is it simply a term that happens to have a non-offensive meaning in Dutch?
23:50:48*]RowaN[ goes back to coma
23:52:03t0masFebs: don't know
23:52:16t0masneger is a dutch word... and I don't know any other language using it
23:53:22rasherDanish has it, and I presume Swedish as well
23:53:39cooblots of european languages use neg* as their word for black...
23:54:05rasherFor the past 10 years, its meaning has turned towards the english nigger. Not sure why.
23:54:14rasherWell, more.. 15 years probably
23:54:15t0masne·ger (de ~ (m.), ~s)
23:54:15t0mas 1 persoon behorend tot één van de zwarte rassen uit Afrika => nikker, roetmop
23:54:28rasherBefore that, it was a perfectly neutral word
23:54:32t0masin english: Person belonging to 1 of the black races in Africa
23:54:55t0masbut there is a link to nikker
23:55:15t0maswich is linked as an alias for neger :X
23:55:15t0masnik·ker (de ~ (m.), ~s)
23:55:15t0mas 1 [bel.] neger
23:55:36FebsEven so, pretending that the word doesn't exist doesn't alleviate any problem of racism. If anything, it validates the negative connotation.
23:55:48t0masindeed
23:55:51rasherFebs: true
23:55:57rasherMakes sense, googling for "negerpunk" gave a lot of Dutch results
23:56:06rasherI guess there's a dutchman at nullsoft
23:56:35rasherOr someone who likes a band playing it.
23:56:58rasherYou'll notice there's an entire genre devoted to Primus. Justin Frankel is apparently known to be a great fan of Primus.
23:57:14]RowaN[in rockbox theres "list by date" and "list by newest date" (iirc) .. is that equvalant to date created vs date modified or something else?
23:57:19t0maslast year... we had some guy in school... and someone said "marrokaan" to him... He asked why the other one said nasty things to him... reply? "Why? You think marrokaan is a nasty word? Who's the racist here?"
23:57:31rasherHaha
23:57:49rasher]RowaN[: No, I think it's just by date, and by date reversed
23:58:24]RowaN[i think foobar redated all my files when attempting to replaygain them... I LOVE FOOBAR
23:58:39rasherWell, it should, really.
23:58:58rasherBut it could be nice and offer an option not to

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