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#rockbox log for 2005-09-15

00:03:15zeekoeyep, i know, i saw it at the television once
00:03:43 Join matsl [0] (n=matsl@1-1-4-2a.mal.sth.bostream.se)
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00:04:01webguest45hi
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00:09:49Link9064whats the difference between the fmrecorder and fmrecorder8mb firmware?
00:15:02zeekoethe fmrecorder8mb is for 8mb fm recorders :-)
00:15:21zeekoeyou can mod the recorder with an 8 mb chip if you want, see the wiki how to do it
00:15:32zeekoeyou'll need some soldering skills though...
00:15:54Link9064and what benefits are there in doing that?
00:17:16zeekoeextended battery life
00:17:27zeekoemore buffer space = less hard drive spinups
00:21:57Link9064k, thx
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00:24:30zeekoenp
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00:35:54pillhi
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00:45:38Moosgood night @ all
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07:00
07:26:22 Join LinusN [0] (n=linus@labb.contactor.se)
07:29:31amiconnmorning
07:30:16LinusNmorning
07:30:19*amiconn just committed the xing header fixes
07:30:25LinusNwonderful
07:30:40amiconnI've done some research regarding the bitshifted recordings.
07:30:52amiconnReally interesting...
07:31:21amiconn(1) This is most likely *not* the s/pdif malfunction, but something else
07:31:59amiconnIt does also happen with analog recording, and it did not happen with a >8 hour s/pdif recording....
07:32:08amiconn...all with q=7
07:33:10amiconnIt seems that it might happen anytime, but the probability is very very low unless a high quality setting is used *and* the recording level is high
07:33:55amiconnMy error-free s/pdif recording was made from a "quiet" CD
07:34:57amiconn(2) I wrote a little tool to bitshift blocks in a file. With this tool, I was able to completely repair yesterday's test recording....
07:35:51amiconn....after analysing (with a hex editor) at which point the recording was shifted by which amount
07:36:28LinusNwow
07:36:50amiconn(3) The MAS shifts both up and down. Yesterday's recording had +1 and -1 bit, but iirc I also observed +2 bits in another test
07:37:39amiconnSee http://www.rockbox.org/irc/rockbox-20050914.txt starting 22:44:35
07:41:53LinusNso we should release a tool to repair recordings...
07:42:00LinusNsilly mas!
07:42:18 Join B4gder [0] (n=daniel@static-213-115-255-230.sme.bredbandsbolaget.se)
07:43:06amiconnThe hardest part is the shift amount analysis
07:43:17LinusNindeed
07:43:43amiconnI just started a test recording with archos firmware, just to see whether it has the same problem
07:44:04amiconn(q=7 and a sufficient recording level)
07:53:02LinusNi sincerely hope that it happens with the original firmware too :-)
08:00
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10:00
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10:06:11Dan:)
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10:14:16linuxstbDoes anyone have any opinions on how the iPod Photo compares with the iRiver H340 - in terms of hardware and audio quality? Does anyone know of any reviews comparing them?
10:15:58Zagorreviews mentioning audio quality mostly seem to compare the headphones. I doubt you'd hear much difference between various players using the same headphones.
10:17:05linuxstbI've been browsing the ipodlinux project and looking at some of the code, and I think an ipod port of Rockbox is very do-able. But I'm having trouble thinking of a reason to buy an ipod...
10:17:24Zagor:-)
10:18:00linuxstbipodlinux's problems seem to be: lack of a good application, and struggling with writing Linux drivers to fully support the hardware.
10:18:10linuxstbi.e. they understand the hardware, but Linux is getting in the way.
10:19:42LinusNthat is why porting linux to an audio player is a bad idea in general
10:19:57LinusNespecially if you plan on using it as a portable audio player
10:20:29linuxstbI don't think anyone involved with Rockbox would disagree with that.
10:20:59B4gderhaving written a few linux drivers lately, I would say it isn't that hard really...
10:21:15B4gderI think they just lack developers
10:21:17LinusNstill, porting linux for the fun of it is of course a completely different thing
10:22:36B4gderI wonder if their bootloader could more or less start rockbox instead of linux
10:22:52linuxstbB4gder: Absolutely.
10:23:11B4gderI guess it should be just about the same
10:23:19linuxstbMy understanding is that the iPod boots by reading the firmware from a boot partition.
10:24:02linuxstbSo iPodLinux simply "dd"s a new image to the boot partition, which includes the bootloader, Linux and the original f/w
10:24:15B4gderaha
10:24:40linuxstbThe bootloader itself copies itself to the SRAM, copies the appropriate image to the required address in RAM, and then jumps to it.
10:25:17linuxstbThe bootloader contains a simple keyboard and LCD driver - but no IDE driver.
10:26:56linuxstbThe code is here: http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/ipodlinux/tools/ipodloader/
10:27:22LinusNsome guys are just lunatics: http://ipodlinux.org/stories/piezo/index.html
10:27:28B4gderso how does the bootloader get the image into ram?
10:27:42B4gderif it can't read from disk
10:28:38linuxstbI think the ipod itself loads it. i.e. it convinces the ipod that the firmware is double the normal size.
10:28:49B4gderok, sounds clever enough
10:29:59B4gderand it also means they never flash the ipod
10:30:11linuxstbNope.
10:30:21Zagorarchos dejavu
10:30:24B4gderwhat a cosy archos-feeling ;-)
10:31:28B4gderso getting Rockbox instead of linux would be rather easy
10:31:37B4gderonce the initial things are ported
10:31:48linuxstbThat's my thought.
10:32:19linuxstbThe main problem would be using the co-processor - otherwise we would struggle badly with real-time playback.
10:32:31B4gderwhy?
10:32:35linuxstbBut that would be much easier with Rockbox than Linux I expect.
10:32:37B4gder80Mhz arm should be enough
10:32:44B4gdereven single-core
10:32:51linuxstbMaybe - but not for all the codecs.
10:33:10B4gderno, possibly not
10:33:29linuxstbI'm not saying it's a problem - just something new to Rockbox that would need to be done.
10:33:35B4gderyes
10:34:27linuxstbI'm also not sure how "usb mode" works. That may not work with ipodlinux.
10:34:48B4gderright, and what fs do the ipods use?
10:35:00linuxstbFAT32 or HFS
10:35:23B4gderok, so working on fat32 only would be a start
10:37:40linuxstbYes. But Mac's can use FAT32 ipods, so I don't think it's a show-stopper for Mac users.
10:37:44linuxstb(I think)
10:38:42 Join amiconn_ [0] (n=jens@p54BD7C6E.dip.t-dialin.net)
10:41:58linuxstbSo, is anyone tempted to buy an ipod?
10:42:37B4gderI'm quite tempted to see a serious Rockbox attempt on ipod at least
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10:48:40linuxstbDoes amiconn's last commit mean there's nothing left to do before 2.5?
10:52:31pillhi
10:53:09pilldoes anyone know if rockbox could read .cue files, providing the appropriate patch?
10:53:50CoCoLUSa cue file is just another version of a playlist
10:53:57pillyeah
10:54:15CoCoLUSbut with a little catch :)
10:54:21pillindeed :)
10:54:51LinusNcue files don't really fit into the rockbox architecture
10:54:51CoCoLUSrockbox supports bookmarks... maybe a plugin which reads the cue points and converts it into bookmarks
10:55:31LinusNso there are numerous special cases that need to be taken care of
10:56:01LinusNlike resuming, bookmarks, queueing, playlist editige etc
10:56:05LinusNediting
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10:56:34linuxstbChanging that's been on my to-do list for years. But it's a low priority.
10:56:42 Join markun [0] (n=markun@bastards.student.ipv6.utwente.nl)
10:57:05CoCoLUSand, the cue file can contain additional artist/title info...
10:57:10LinusNthere is a very old patch for this, but it was kind of half hearted
10:57:25linuxstbYes - I wrote that :)
10:57:30LinusN:-)
10:57:45linuxstbThe criticisms were right, but I never found the time to resolve them.
10:58:03linuxstbI can't even find a copy of it now.
10:58:07LinusNand it is even harder now, with the dynamic playlists and all
10:58:25LinusNlinuxstb: you can find it in the mailing list archives
10:58:37CoCoLUSbut why even use cue files?
10:58:45CoCoLUSif there's gapless playback anyway?
10:59:17linuxstbMy reason is that I have long radio recordings, and I want to be able to jump to specific points without having to split the file.
10:59:36linuxstbI would also like to be able to create the cuefiles during playback on Rockbox.
10:59:50linuxstbSort of like the splitedit plugin.
10:59:57linuxstbBut without the splitting.
11:00
11:00:42LinusNthe question is how rockbox should treat cue files
11:01:02 Join ep0ch [0] (n=ep0ch@84.12.153.190)
11:01:09LinusNit could treat them as X individual tracks
11:01:17LinusNor as a playlist
11:01:33linuxstbI think treating it like a playlist would fit into Rockbox best.
11:01:40ep0chcan anyone else confirm on ihp that for some mp3s the codec bitrate is no longer displayed in wps?
11:01:50linuxstbSo each item in the playlist would need extending to include the start and end time in the file.
11:02:00LinusNep0ch: show me one of those mp3's
11:02:06ep0chi will upload
11:02:07ep0chhangon
11:02:57CoCoLUSlinuxstb: why? end time of track x is start time of track x + 1?
11:03:20LinusNlinuxstb: ok, so all playlist entries have a track name plus start/endpoints?
11:03:21linuxstbWhat if you only insert one track from the cuefile into the playlist.
11:03:35linuxstbLinusN: Yes.
11:03:40LinusNsounds reasonable
11:04:17LinusNok, and the browser will treat a cue file like a subdirectory?
11:04:19CoCoLUSah
11:04:22CoCoLUSnow i get it...
11:05:05LinusNin fact, extending the playlist with start/endpoints opens up the door to beat-matched mixes...
11:05:12linuxstbLinusN: What does the browser do now with a playlist? (I don't use them).
11:05:24linuxstbIs that treated like a subdir?
11:05:38LinusNit stores the file position for each line in the list
11:05:48LinusNthe browser plays the list
11:06:08LinusNunless you open it in the playlist editor
11:09:21linuxstbI can't think of an easy way to create cuefiles though. I would like to do that from the normal WPS whilst listening - not with a plugin.
11:09:46linuxstbi.e. when listening to a long recording, I want to index it there and then.
11:10:53 Join preglow [0] (n=thomjoha@hekta.edt.aft.hist.no)
11:12:43ep0chlinusN: While the mp3s are uploading the line in my wps that i've always had is: %ac%s%t2%ac%fc %?fv<%fbkbps VBR|%fbkbps CBR|> %ffHz
11:12:47CoCoLUSi'm sorry if thats a dumb question... but... can the decoders even jump to such a specific timestamp in the file? the cue files specifiy the stamp up to 1/100 seconds
11:13:13ep0chlinusN: so it might be the WPS that is broken not the mp3
11:13:30Zagorlinuxstb: perhaps an extension of the bookmarking system
11:14:05preglowZagor: going for a release now?
11:14:30LinusNep0ch: the last "|" in the vbr conditional shouldn't be there
11:14:43LinusNafter "CBR"
11:14:46ep0chlinusN: ok
11:15:05LinusNthat would have worked before the enum conditionals, but not anymore
11:15:13ep0chLinusN: ahh ty
11:15:33linuxstbCoCoLUS: The codecs don't seek very accurately at the moment - that's something else I would like to change.
11:15:39Zagorpreglow: yes, but I'm a bit disconnected at the moment. I'll just press the button the told to. :-)
11:15:43 Join tvelocity [0] (n=tony@ipa251.6.tellas.gr)
11:15:53Zagors/the/when/
11:16:04linuxstbThey should seek to the closest frame before the seek point, and then discard the necessary number of decoded samples - to give sample-accurate seeking.
11:16:35linuxstbThis obviously isn't possible on the Archos.
11:16:49LinusNlinuxstb: accurate seeking will still be nearly impossible with MP3 VBR files
11:17:11linuxstbYes. But easy with everything else.
11:17:19ep0chlinusN: yeah that was it, fixed now, thankyou
11:17:51LinusNyou're welcome
11:22:19preglowi don't see the point with sample-accurate seeking, apart from .cue support
11:22:30preglowsample accurate seeking is a pain with vbr files
11:22:31linuxstbIs anyone going to tell Zagor to press the release button? Or are there things left to do?
11:23:11ep0chtesting?
11:27:38B4gderI guess we neeed amiconn's and LinusN's blessing
11:27:56LinusNyes you do
11:28:03linuxstb:)
11:28:31B4gderI gave it thumbs up several days ago ;-)
11:47:21linuxstbpreglow: sample accurate seeking is only a paid with MP3 files. I don't think there's any problem with the other formats.
11:47:26linuxstbs/paid/pain/
11:47:52linuxstbSo I see no reason not do it where it is easy.
11:49:02preglowlinuxstb: might not be, mp3 is the only format i'm pretty familiar with the internals of
11:49:26preglowthen again, mp3s is pretty much the only format used with cue files
11:49:56linuxstbFLAC CUE is a common backup format for CDs.
11:50:23linuxstbI would use it for CBR MP2 files.
11:50:33 Join ashridah [0] (i=ashridah@220-253-121-1.VIC.netspace.net.au)
11:50:39pilli have another question
11:50:57pillcan i make terminalx9 the default font for .nfo files?
11:51:04pillsomehow
11:51:34pillsince more ascii art is really jaw-dropping
11:51:44pillmost*
11:51:46pilli mean
11:51:57preglownot yet, i believe
11:52:06pillokay
11:52:49linuxstbA problem would be that if we added cue-support without accurate seeking in VBR MP3, users would complain.
11:53:03pillusers always complain :)
11:53:08pillanyway
11:53:14linuxstbI think there would be a demand for a slow-seeking mode which scanned the file.
11:53:42pilli wish to tell you guys that i use rockbox 100% of the time since initial iriver build, and i REALLY appreciate your work.
11:53:49pilli'm willing to donate
11:54:01 Quit tvelocity ("Leaving")
11:55:20preglowlinuxstb: could just as well scan the mp3 on first access and create bookmarks for all tracks, then, so it's saved for later use
12:00
12:01:29linuxstbDoes the Xing VBR header contain seek points?
12:02:19preglowyes
12:02:24preglowabout a 100, or so
12:02:36linuxstbSo they could be the cue points?
12:02:46preglowperhaps
12:03:45preglowyou're talking about modifying the file to contain the seek points we want?
12:04:07LinusNthe seek points are not exact
12:04:27preglowi'd expect not, since they're bytes...
12:04:57preglowwhat data does a bookmark contain?
12:05:13preglowexact file offset, i take it?
12:05:58linuxstbSo what exactly is in the Xing header? I assumed a seek point would contain the byte offset in the file of a frame, and the position in the audio (in ms or samples) of that frame.
12:06:10preglowoh no
12:06:13preglowit's just a byte
12:06:24preglowkind of a file offset percentage, i guess
12:06:47LinusNyes 1/256 of the file size
12:06:49preglowseek to x/255*filesize
12:06:52preglowthen search from there
12:09:13pillthe difficulty with cue files would be to read track info, artist and album and all, too..
12:09:24pillso it's a whole different way of thinking
12:09:43***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
12:09:49*pill shrugs
12:10:23preglownot much of a problem, if you ask me
12:10:44preglowthe cue reader will most certainly have to be in the rockbox core anyway, it's just a pretty weird playlist format
12:10:51pillyes
12:10:59pillwell yes
12:11:14pillbut it's not using id3 at all, then
12:11:19preglowno
12:11:22pillof just for the genre
12:11:25pilland the year
12:11:38 Quit preglow ("woops, reboot")
12:11:59linuxstbYou would need some kind of priority setting - ID3, then cuefile "album" info and then cuefile "track info".
12:12:34linuxstbe.g. the Artist could be in the ID3, or at the start of the cuefile, or as part of the track info in the cuefile.
12:13:18linuxstbSo you would want to check all three, and use the last one.
12:13:32 Join preglow [0] (n=50cb263c@labb.contactor.se)
12:13:41preglowbloody amateur server admins rebooting all the time
12:13:49preglowbut yes
12:13:53pill:)
12:14:12preglowa problem might be loading all the track info from the cue file at once, rockbox is used to loading track info as it needs it
12:14:26linuxstbBut satisfactory seeking is probably the hardest part.
12:14:31preglowbut that's not much of a problem, i guess, just look into the cue file instead, when you used to read metadata from the files
12:14:48preglowlinuxstb: well, there is just one way of doing it: walking the bitstream
12:15:04preglowwhich is pretty slow, i'm afraid
12:15:14linuxstbI think foobar does that.
12:15:23preglowwe could spawn a thread doing this when a user plays the cue the first time
12:15:28preglowand the results must be saved
12:15:37preglowlinuxstb: that's exactly what i does, and slowly too
12:16:15linuxstbAs it's only needed for VBR MP3, a plugin like VBRfix would probably be cleaner.
12:17:16preglowwell
12:17:29linuxstbWhy hasn't anyone solved this problem before with a file header? i.e. like the Xing header but better.
12:17:33preglowas long as it's done transparently, for example if the cue loader can't find a suitable set of bookmarks/seek points
12:17:47preglowlinuxstb: well, there's vbri, but it's not very widely spread
12:18:02linuxstbLet's help spread it.
12:19:35preglowthe vbri header lets you define full precision seek points, and an arbitrary number of them too
12:19:49preglowat least i _think_ it is full precision, can't exactly remember the spec
12:19:53*linuxstb searches for vbri and finds Variable Bore Rams Inc.
12:20:07preglowhttp://www.codeproject.com/audio/MPEGAudioInfo.asp
12:20:12preglowthere's a header description there
12:21:19preglowdon't know how well it coexists with the other headers, and that might be a problem
12:21:31preglowi'm also not sure i want rockbox to modify any files
12:22:30linuxstb'm just talking about a VBRI-fix plugin, and Rockbox supporting it on playback.
12:22:54preglowhmm
12:23:05preglowwell, that plugin would also have to read cue files, then
12:23:17linuxstbOf course. Not a problem.
12:23:19preglowstill not sure i'm thrilled about it
12:23:45preglowgranted my files are correctly made, i'd like them to be playable without having to modify them
12:24:01preglowbut it's not the worst compromise i've ever heard of
12:24:03linuxstbIMO, they are not correctly made - they don't have a seek table.
12:24:20preglowoh, they do, but not one suitable for cue files
12:24:40preglowyou can seek perfectly well with xing seek points, but not exactly
12:24:58preglowbut of course, not having to depend on external files for seek points would be nice
12:25:14preglowso if vbri headers will coexist nicely with others, it's a decent idea, i suppose
12:25:56pilloh, you're talking about modifying files?
12:26:02pilllike with adding geplaygain?
12:26:08pillreplaygain*
12:26:09linuxstbIt just seems to make sense to fix the limitations of the MP3 format, rather than compromise when playing back.
12:26:55pillimho, having to modify files that are properly tagged is not satisfying.
12:27:06pillespecially if you have sfv files that come with them
12:27:30pillthat's why i didn't add replaygain to my files
12:27:56preglowlinuxstb: the fix will only apply to us
12:28:12preglowlinuxstb: and if we ever dump across a file WITH a vbri header, how do we know it's not one we made?
12:28:37preglowi suppose the vbri header we make will have to have seek points defined according to cue track boundaries
12:28:59preglows/suppose/assume/
12:29:12linuxstbOf course.
12:29:42linuxstbBut I don't use VBR MP3, so my opinion shouldn't count for much.
12:30:01preglowwell, no, but you are suggesting how to better use them ;)
12:30:07preglowi don't use them much myself
12:30:16preglowbut i've got a couple of cue/mp3 albums i'd like to be supported
12:30:41pilli have cue for some dnb albums
12:30:46preglowstill, finding out if a vbri header is generated by us, and hence has got suitable seek points or not, will be tricky
12:30:51preglowpill: yeah, me too
12:30:54pill:)
12:31:11linuxstbI guess there's three options - store seek points in a VBRI header (or similar), store them in the cuefile, or store them in an external file.
12:31:30pillext file is the best
12:31:32pillto me
12:31:39preglowwell, in principle, but they'd be easy to loose
12:32:24preglowbut it wouldn't modify any files
12:32:28linuxstbpill: Why don't you want to modify your MP3 files and then generate new sfv files? What do you need the sfv files for?
12:32:29preglowwhich i consider good
12:33:00linuxstbI'm assuming that adding a VBRI header wouldn't affect playback in other players.
12:33:11preglow'course
12:33:14preglowand i know nothing about that
12:33:28preglowafaik, vbri headers are few and far between
12:33:50preglowmy guess is also that you'd see either a xing OR a vbri file
12:33:52preglowehh, hedaer
12:33:54preglownot both
12:34:19pilllinuxstb: i have 250GB of mp3s, all properly tagged, and when someone gets these off me, he checks with the sfv
12:34:44linuxstbHow many of those have a cuefile?
12:34:52pillthat is the good question
12:34:52pill:)
12:34:57pilli knew it would arise
12:35:01pillhmm
12:35:08pilli'd say 20/30 albums
12:35:19Danwhat do you use to tag them?
12:35:27pilli dont tag them
12:35:31pillthey're already tagged
12:35:36Dano
12:35:41pillthe cue comes from EAC
12:36:14pillbut it's the same with replaygain
12:36:21linuxstbSo it wouldn't be a big job to create a second VBRI-enabled copy of your 30-albums.
12:36:26pillbah
12:36:37pillwell, technically yes
12:36:58pillbut it's not the most versatile way to go
12:37:05pill(just my 2 cents)
12:37:24preglownot much, no, but the problem remains, you might have to strip away some headers that were there before, vbri headers might not be widely supported
12:37:33preglowall of which can be researched, so someone go ahead ;)
12:37:53preglowi need to eat
12:39:07linuxstbAll I'm really suggesting is that Rockbox could support the VBRI tag. If there was a demand for alternative methods of accurate seeking in a VBR MP3 file, we could add those as well.
12:39:55linuxstbBut if VBRI tags worked, I personally would be happy with that solution.
12:41:28preglowwe'll probably supports vbri, yes
12:41:34preglowonly problem is the variable size seek table
12:41:38pillit's be better than no support at all, that's for sure.
12:42:47linuxstbAll the codecs (FLAC, Ogg etc) have variable sized seek tables.
12:43:56preglowyeah, sure, but nothing rockbox has parsed from mp3s thus far
12:44:01preglowhow do you deal with the variable sizes, then?
12:44:03preglowmalloc? :-)
12:44:23linuxstbYep.
12:51:32preglowwell, well
12:51:38preglowi don't expect we'll ever be rid of malloc anyway
12:51:46preglownot in something as diverse as rockbox is becoming
13:00
13:05:31 Join Moos [0] (i=DrMoos@m113.net81-66-159.noos.fr)
13:05:46MoosHi guys !
13:09:35Moosstill freeze here? :)
13:09:51 Quit linuxstb ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
13:14:25 Quit markun ()
13:20:31 Join rasher [0] (n=jonas@62.79.64.148.adsl.hs.tiscali.dk)
13:20:58 Quit edx (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
13:23:16rasherIs iriver the only player without a hardware poweroff?
13:23:28rasher(currently supported)
13:23:55flurble?
13:24:08rasherI'll try again..
13:24:30rasherDo all the Archos devices have a hardware-controlled poweroff?
13:26:25LinusNyes
13:26:35LinusN(i don't really know about the ondio though)
13:27:07LinusNbut all the other models have a hardware poweroff mechanism
13:27:58amiconnOndio is same as fm/v2 recorder
13:28:11amiconnHardware poweroff by pressing OnOff >= 10 seconds
13:28:31flurbledoes the iriver not have a hardware poweroff, then?
13:28:40flurblewhat's it mean by hardware poweroff?
13:29:09rasherThat the software doesn't have to react
13:29:19*HCl prods Moos
13:29:29rasherRockbox could chose to ignore the press on STOP and not shut down the player.
13:29:39flurbleah
13:29:48rasherNot so if it's done in hardware
13:37:06 Join edx [0] (i=edx@p54A87B96.dip.t-dialin.net)
13:48:42 Quit ender` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
13:50:07rasherDoes volume-triggered recording work on Ondiofm?
13:55:40amiconnI didn't test it, but it should work
13:57:21rasherGood, wasn't entirely clear from the commit message
13:57:31rasherI'm fixing up the changelog
14:00
14:03:36 Quit Febs (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
14:09:30 Nick preglow is now known as prelol (n=50cb263c@labb.contactor.se)
14:09:45***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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14:10:57rasherHow does http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/pub/Main/ReleaseNotes/ReleaseNotes-25.txt look?
14:11:07CoCoLUStexty :)
14:11:51rasherWell yes. I was aiming for "what could be sent to the mailinglist"
14:12:54rasherhttp://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/ReleaseNotes is the wiki version
14:13:00rasher(will be moved to ReleaseNotes25
14:14:17CoCoLUSi like it, but i thinkt he iriver part should be a bit more elaborate
14:14:39CoCoLUSthere'll be a -lot- of iriver users reading this
14:15:29rasherI think I'll just put a link to each ports main page
14:16:04CoCoLUSa big fat notice on the first page... "this release concers archos products only - it's not an iriver-release"
14:16:06Mooshttp://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IriverStatus
14:16:59rasherCoCoLUS: The Rockbox project is pleased to announce the immediate availability of Rockbox 2.5 for Archos Jukebox 5000, 6000 and Studio, Archos Jukebox Recorder 6, 10, 15 and 20, Archos Jukebox Recorder v2, Archos Jukebox FM Recorder, Archos Ondio FM and Archos Ondio SP.
14:17:02rasherI think that covers it.
14:18:14rasherand if it doesn't, there'll be public ridicule.
14:18:52CoCoLUSthat sentence is waaaay to large. mistic-users won't eben read it halfway through.
14:18:57CoCoLUSeven, even
14:19:26rasherHence, public ridicule.
14:19:43rasherI really don't want to litter this text with handholding for people without reading comprehension
14:20:14CoCoLUSreally, i personally think that the readme is fine, just imaging the ruckus in this channel the day someone from the board notices the 2.5 release...
14:21:29rasherThe readme?
14:22:20CoCoLUSthe release notes.
14:22:22rasherUpdated the wiki page with links to the ports pages
14:23:03rasherAh. Well, I'm sure you're right, but I don't think there should be huge notices about it not being for iriver
14:23:16CoCoLUSone last thing, you should really add a remark at 4.2 about the remote not working
14:23:21CoCoLUSthats a major for most users
14:24:22rasherHm. I don't want to be too specific, because the entire section 4 is mostly a "oh, by the way"
14:24:33rasherThink I'll hint at "missing features"
14:24:49rasherOr something like that
14:26:21CoCoLUS"major missing features: full remote support, ..."
14:26:25CoCoLUSis enough, imho
14:26:28CoCoLUSbut you're the writer :)
14:26:38CoCoLUSdo something poetic...
14:30:14 Join hshah [0] (n=c2c92012@labb.contactor.se)
14:31:23rasherhttp://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/rdiff/Main/ReleaseNotes you won
14:34:06CoCoLUSyeah :)
14:35:02 Quit B4gder ("Lämnar")
14:35:53 Join zhilik [0] (n=zhilik@ppp83-237-231-206.pppoe.mtu-net.ru)
14:45:47CoCoLUSjust tried to apply an image-using wps the first time
14:45:56CoCoLUSdo i need to enable the images somewhere? :)
14:46:22rasherNope
14:46:28rasherPerhaps you got an "old" wps?
14:46:34rasherThe image format changed a few weeks ago
14:46:45rasherI suspect a lot of wps havent been updated
14:48:27CoCoLUSmost likely.
14:53:20CoCoLUSfound a new one. :)
14:53:47CoCoLUShm... large font... lots of text scrolling... does that cost batter? :)
14:53:57rasherDoubt it
14:55:08CoCoLUSwell i'll know if it stops playing during the ride home... which starts now. bye
15:00
15:05:59preglowan mp3 player that runs on batter, now that sounds good for the environment
15:06:37rasherBetter than running it on dead kittens (http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/09/14/2355223&tid=133&tid=126)
15:07:18preglowhaha, yeah, saw it
15:07:30preglowbetter make it run on dogs
15:07:33preglowi like kittens :P
15:10:33 Join linuxstb [0] (n=linuxstb@host213-123-154-169.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
15:10:56rasherOf course it was just BILD misquoting the guy. Still amusing though.
15:14:21 Join t0mas [0] (n=Tomas@unaffiliated/t0mas)
15:15:15MoosLinus,amiconn: What remains it to do before the release ? bugfixes for all bugs listed in Release to do?
15:15:52Mooshi t0mas :)
15:16:31rasherI don't think the remaining bugs are going to be fixed
15:16:40rasherIf I understand what I read earlier correctlly
15:17:07MoosI think so it's why I'am wondering why not release ;)
15:18:05rasherI think the relevant people are just buy
15:18:06rasherbusy
15:18:21Moosmaybe
15:19:39Moosrasher: a propos, congratulations for languages
15:20:05rasherYeah, people have been quite good at providing translations
15:20:40 Join ]RowaN[ [0] (n=5688bf02@labb.contactor.se)
15:20:44Mooslot of fully translations
15:20:48]RowaN[u guys seen this? www.dapreview.net/content.php?review.221
15:21:28rasher]RowaN[: Yup. Pretty good review although he misses a few things. Good overall though
15:21:43rasherMoos: Indeed. I'm quite satisfied with it
15:22:04Moos:)
15:22:24]RowaN[my god that entire article doesnt even mention replaygain does it
15:22:30MoosRowan already see here
15:23:09Moosprobably article made before the RG support ;)
15:25:19]RowaN[no, article is from 8th sept (8 days ago)
15:25:47rasherWell, does the Karma have that? It seems like he's halfway comparing it to that.
15:26:14]RowaN[i just added a comment to the article about RG =]
15:26:20MoosRowan : published 8th :]
15:27:47]RowaN[yes, thats what i said
15:29:08Moosmaybe the reserches about Rockbox few weeks ago, or they don't see this marvellous feature support
15:29:21]RowaN[it cant have taken him more than 20 minutes to write that little article, surely
15:29:33Moos:)
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15:57:58 Part LinusN
16:00
16:04:15linuxstbWell, I've given myself a challenge and ordered an ipod...
16:04:34Moosboo
16:04:44Moos:-)
16:06:10]RowaN[soon ipods will be so small you will be able to use them as a suppository
16:09:47***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
16:11:16rasherlinuxstb: which model?
16:22:03linuxstb60GB Photo
16:22:45linuxstbIt (I hope!) uses a PP5020 - the same as the iRiver H10s
16:25:36rasherhow much help is that?
16:25:36 Join Sucka [0] (n=NNSCRIPT@host81-156-159-120.range81-156.btcentralplus.com)
16:25:45rasherIn terms of a possible h10 port
16:26:11rasherHow large a part of the player is the PP5020, I guess is more precise
16:30:03Danrasher
16:30:11Danits arriving tomorrow morning :D
16:30:23rasherThat was quick
16:30:30Danya
16:31:01Danill probably end up coding some apps to go with it haha
16:31:29Danonce i find out how everythings works
16:32:59]RowaN[i need a rockbox sticker for the back of my iriver
16:33:27rasherThere should be a cafepress store
16:33:40rasherWith any earnings going into the rockbox fund
16:34:41]RowaN[i was just thinking that
16:34:46linuxstbThe PP5020 is a "system on a chip" - so I would expect there to be a lot of similarities between the H10 and the iPods.
16:35:01linuxstbLCD is one obvious differnece.
16:35:11]RowaN[i'll set one up if #rockbox trusts me not to run off with the millions of pounds of profits =p
16:35:34rasherHm, I think zagor/bagder/linus should set it up
16:35:45rasherto avoid transfering back and forth
16:37:10rasherlinuxstb: Yeah, just wondering how much system is on the chip
16:39:14linuxstbWe'll find out...
16:39:31rasherYup.
16:39:33Zagori'll look into the cafepress thing. we've discussed it long ago (anyone remember the tshirt contest?) but since we're lazy nother ever materialized
16:39:57rasherI'd almost be tempted to trade in my iriver for an ipod
16:42:09 Join Hansmaulwurf [0] (n=maerlyn@p5081F107.dip.t-dialin.net)
16:42:29rasher(assuming a working Rockbox port)
16:43:22 Quit hshah ("CGI:IRC")
16:43:26preglowi'd just get an ipod as well, heh
16:43:43HansmaulwurfiPoo
16:43:56preglowyou aren't from misticriver, are you?
16:44:48Hansmaulwurf"from"?
16:44:50*amiconn doesn't want an ipod for sure
16:44:57Hansmaulwurfwell i am registered there yes
16:45:06Hansmaulwurfwhy?
16:48:19rasherIt shows.
16:50:23ep0chif iPods did Vorbis, gapless and drag and drop usb storage, i would get one too.
16:50:24linuxstbOne thing that worries me a little is that the ARM requires aligned memory read/writes. I'm guessing Rockbox isn't safe in this respect.
16:50:47amiconnlinuxstb: SH1 requires aligned memory writes as well
16:51:00amiconn*reads/writes
16:51:13linuxstbThe arm's requirements are detailed here:
16:51:14linuxstbhttp://ipodlinux.org/IPod_Programming
16:51:25amiconnAt least the all-platform code should be safe in that respect
16:51:58Hansmaulwurf(ep0ch) if iPods did Vorbis, gapless and drag and drop usb storage, i would get one too. <−−- and a remote LCD and of coz rockbox ;)
16:52:22rasherNo lcd remote for ipod :-\
16:52:32rasherI'm beginning to think I can live without it though
16:52:36ep0chwell, i dont use remote at all on the ihp
16:52:39linuxstbMy understanding was that iPods did support usb storage - it's just that the iTunes database needs updating. So it's a software problem fixable by Rockbox.
16:53:00amiconnlinuxstb: Yes, that's what SH1 reqires too. Otherwise you'll get an address error exception
16:53:13ep0chlinuxstb: yeah something along the lines of music filenames being stored as a hash on the drive, not quite what i would like.
16:53:15]RowaN[i never use my iriver's remote.. all the extra wires and bulkyness of it (compared to the size of the player) kind of outweighs its purpose
16:53:25 Quit cYmen ("fu!")
16:53:41Hansmaulwurfhuh? the remote has maybe 10g
16:53:48]RowaN[its not like my iriver takes up the boot of my car
16:54:05amiconnlinuxstb: Even the coldfire requires it in some cases, though not for ordinary data accesses
16:54:27ep0chHansmaulwurf: 10g? grams? gig?
16:54:29linuxstbamiconn: Thanks. I'm glad it's not a new issue.
16:54:35Hansmaulwurfand for using it while byciclgin its very useful
16:54:37Hansmaulwurfgram
16:55:42rasherHansmaulwurf: most of the times I don't need the lcd though
16:55:47rasherJust a skip-button
16:55:50ep0chHansmaulwurf: not weight, but too many wires to get tangled up in
16:56:03]RowaN[that reminds me ive got a rio pmp300 (iirc) that i need to bin/ebay up... it works but the battery connection is loose
16:56:11Hansmaulwurfu can store the wires in your bags
16:56:13]RowaN[32mb onboard, whoa! =]
16:56:16amiconn]RowaN[: I agree here. It's not a problem of how much it weighs, but it adds another item and cable hanging around...
16:56:40]RowaN[when i said outweigh... i didnt mean physically =]
16:56:41 Join ender` [0] (i=ychat@84.52.165.220)
16:56:44Hansmaulwurfat home the remote is mostly useless i agree
16:56:58Hansmaulwurfbut for any kind of outdoor activity its very usefull
16:57:11rasheramiconn: Depends on how you arrange it.. I have my player in my pocket, and the remote cable curled up there. Remote clipped unto the pocket-top and the headphone cable from there to my ears
16:57:27Hansmaulwurfsame here rasher
16:57:39amiconnFor use while walking etc., the iriver is too bulky anyway
16:57:45amiconnI use my Ondio for that
16:57:52]RowaN[its another item that will get caugt in the handbag clasp of some tragic commuter who rushes past you, then pulls you to the floor / launches your iriver onto the train track / strangles you with the pulled wire
16:58:19Danput the cable up through your jacket
16:58:20ep0chi always found the remote on the ihp a pain in the arse to use, too many buttons, and it operated completely differently to the main unit
16:58:43]RowaN[iriver does seem somewhat bulky these days, but it fits snugly into my inside jacket pocket.. i need all 30gigs of music all day coz i do a 4 hour commute
16:58:50Hansmaulwurfcan we agree that it was a great gift from iriver to give a lcd remote for free on the h1** series? :)
16:59:07ep0chhuh? i paid for it
16:59:12Hansmaulwurf?
16:59:12rasherpwned.
16:59:15ep0chwas included in the price
16:59:18 Quit Moos ("Parti")
16:59:23rasherHeh, of course
16:59:27amiconnI only keep my remote for rockbox development. Otherwise I would give it away.
16:59:33 Join Moos [0] (i=DrMoos@m113.net81-66-159.noos.fr)
16:59:54 Join tucoz [0] (n=50ca630c@labb.contactor.se)
17:00
17:00:29Hansmaulwurfwill we see a lcd remote support in the near future?
17:00:48tucozamiconn: you here? I read in the logs a while back that you found irivers fm-radio having worse reception than the archoses. Did you try with the remote?
17:00:49Hansmaulwurfor are all Rockbox developer busy with an iPoo port?
17:00:50ep0chyeah amiconn just volunteed to do all the code ;)
17:01:06amiconntucoz: No, without the remote
17:01:31tucozi.e using the remote as antenna. For me, I get a lot better reception with that. (iirc) ;)
17:01:35amiconn...but with the exact same earphone (==antenna) as on the Ondio
17:02:15Hansmaulwurfthe reception on the iriver is very poor
17:02:17tucozok, I am not sure of this. not often that I use the remote. But, I think reception is improved by using the remote.
17:02:23]RowaN[do radio stations still broadcast?
17:02:23Hansmaulwurfone reason why i dont use it
17:02:38Hansmaulwurf]RowaN[: in germany they do
17:02:45Hansmaulwurfi heared
17:02:46amiconnAnd btw, this is only valid for the newer Ondios with Philips tuner. The old Ondios and the FM recorder have a samsung fm tuner, which is rather poor
17:03:06rasherHansmaulwurf: Noone's working on an iPod port now. And please refrain from making such comments.
17:03:21ep0chtucoz: yeah using the remote will add extra length to the antenna, so makes sense :)
17:03:21Hansmaulwurfsorry
17:03:43]RowaN[you should see the size of my antenna, its huge
17:03:57ep0chhhe
17:04:19amiconnep0ch: Extra length doesn't always yield better reception. It's also a question whether the antenna is properly tuned/ adapted
17:04:21tucozep0ch. Yes, that is true, but I thought that the wireing was using some other pins than the audio pins. But, then again, what do I know.
17:05:04ep0chhmm, i suppose adding extra length increases the chances of the wire being in the right direction then
17:05:20 Join ripnetuk [0] (n=george@82-70-100-230.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk)
17:05:33ep0chi.e horizontally rather than vertical
17:05:39ripnetukHi guys. Has anyone contributed code to make the LCD remote on iRiver work yet?
17:05:45amiconntucoz: No, it doesn't. The antenna function of the headphone cable is done by decoupling the wires from ground for high frequencies (with coils), and coupling it to the fm tuner with a small capacitor
17:06:02ep0chyou know too much :D
17:06:07rasherripnetuk: No. Not outside a half-hearted attempt by XavierGr which went about it the wrong way
17:06:13Hansmaulwurfripnetuk: try xavierGs build
17:06:23ripnetukwas that the one that used the remote LCD instead of the main one?
17:06:30rasherNo, not quite
17:06:43ripnetuk?
17:06:43rasherIt simply mirrored every lcd call with a remote_lcd one
17:06:53rasherWhich is not quite right
17:06:55ripnetukwhy is that the wrong (short term) approach?
17:07:07ripnetuksurely if we display the middle XxY pixels on the remote
17:07:23Hansmaulwurfon the player u could only see as much as on the remote
17:07:24ripnetukits much better than nothing? (obviously replace with real seperate screen buffer when the code exists)
17:07:26Hansmaulwurffor example
17:08:21ripnetuk? you saying he reduced the screen size defines to be small enough for the remote (leaving a border on the main LCD)?
17:08:28tucozamiconn: ok. thanks.
17:08:34rasherripnetuk: it's not really useful for menus and filebrowser
17:08:44amiconnripnetuk: The remote lcd drive is there, and there is a separate screen buffer
17:08:58amiconnWhat is missing is the UI code handling it
17:09:06ripnetukso we need to (eventually) change all lcd_write functions to take a screen ID as well then?
17:09:13amiconnNope
17:09:36amiconnThere is a second set of functions. It's already in place
17:10:03amiconnI repeat: What is missing is the UI code handling it. There are two possible approaches
17:10:04ripnetukso do we plan to alter each place in code to call both sets when needed (ie, menus know how to draw to either device)
17:10:14ripnetukwhat 2 approaches are u thinking of?
17:10:28rasherThere was a little discussion on the mailinglist
17:10:35amiconn(1) Mirror all output of a certain part (file browser, menu, wps etc) on the second display
17:11:09*ripnetuk rejoins mailing list (left when sold Archos, forgot to re-join when iRiver port became viable)
17:11:11amiconnThis is the approach XavierGr took (but without adjusting for the different sizes, so all screens are clipped on the remote)
17:11:32rasherhttp://www.rockbox.org/mail/archive/rockbox-archive-2005-08/0114.shtml
17:11:40amiconn(2) Have a secondary GUI thread, as independent as possible from the main GUI thread
17:11:43 Quit rasher (Remote closed the connection)
17:11:45ripnetukthanks :)
17:12:03amiconnImho (2) is the way to go, because it's way more flexible
17:12:23amiconnOf course there must be some communication between both GUI threads
17:12:35ripnetukyes, (2) sounds like the way to go...
17:12:47ripnetukpotentially you could play Tetris on the remote, and wps on main :)
17:13:36 Part tucoz
17:14:27 Join dpassen1 [0] (n=dpassen1@resnet-233-61.resnet.UMBC.EDU)
17:14:51ripnetukthanks for info people - i might have a play with the remote API to see what I can do
17:25:03]RowaN[colour laser printer labels sheet rockbox.jpg... just made a little banner for the back of my iriver =]
17:26:22]RowaN[the area around the screen of my h120 seems glassy.. as if it could be lifted off, and the plate under it replaced? anyone know?
17:26:44 Join markun [0] (n=markun@bastards.student.ipv6.utwente.nl)
17:27:46 Quit ripnetuk ("arrrrgggh")
17:41:16Danthats what i was thinking rowan
17:50:24zhilikSo... Anybody have an idea, where I can find a dead MPIO HD200? I asked on some forums and no results yet (and I rather doubt ther will be).
18:00
18:00:07Danebay?
18:00:08Danlol
18:00:46zhilikNo. Looked there...
18:00:57Danwhat country?
18:01:04zhilikRussia, Moscow.
18:01:13Danhmm
18:01:25Danwhy do you need it to be dead?
18:01:27Danparts?
18:01:48zhilikNo, so I can look at the PCB and start porting RockBox to it.
18:01:56Danoh
18:02:06zhilikhttp://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/InsideMPIOHD200
18:02:31zhilikIt has BGA packaged chips.
18:03:01Danhmm
18:03:13Danwithout going to forums / auction sites etc
18:03:33Danthe only way i can see is cutting a deal with a shop
18:03:41Danfor a returned one
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18:14:35preglowamiconn: any showstoppers for a release?
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20:00:42ep0chOh i'm tempted to get the MPIO HD200 now, any downfalls with it?
20:02:15Bagderyes, there's no rockbox for it
20:02:20Bagder(yet)
20:02:23ep0chheh, are there any funds in the kitty to buy Zhilik another HD200?
20:02:32Bagderyes
20:02:46Bagderwe're ready to sponsor him a broken one
20:02:47ep0chi'm not donating any more until .mod and .sid is done :p
20:03:07ep0chwhat if a broken one isnt available?
20:03:23Bagderthen we'll see
20:03:26ep0chi could be tempted to donate money for that
20:05:17ep0chany other bad things about the HD200 except lack of rockbox?
20:05:26Bagderno idea
20:05:32Bagderit seems similar to h1x0 spec wise
20:05:43zhilikIt's got bad firmware :-)
20:05:51zhilikSound's good.
20:05:54zhilikLoud.
20:05:56ep0chare the controls any good?
20:06:04zhilikThe battery lasts for a few hours.
20:06:19zhilikThe controls are OK if you get used to them.
20:06:49ep0chdoes it come with a remote or not? i read it does, but couldnt see a picture
20:06:58zhilikBut one of the reasons why I wanted to port RockBox to it is that i want to get the control from my dead iMP-550.
20:07:09zhilikThe remote has 4/5 buttons.
20:07:16zhilikNo LCD.
20:07:45zhilik6 buttons and a hold switch.
20:07:54ep0chzhilik: "i want to get the control from my dead iMP-550.", what do you mean by that?
20:08:17ep0chyou want the HD200 to be like the imp-550 navigation wise?
20:08:21zhilikI've got a dead iRiver SlimX iMP-550.
20:08:39zhilikWhich was the player I used before the MPIO.
20:08:52zhilikAnd I want to connect its remote to the MPIO.
20:08:57ep0chohh ok
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20:10:08zhilikiRiver's devides are easy to use. A pity the 550 turned out to be such crap - died after a year and a bit (just after the guarantee). Even the radio is dead. I can use it as a device for displaying "No Disk".
20:10:09ep0chi'm stuck in the mode of thought that if i were to wait, something better would come out, but then i'll never buy anything :(
20:10:38ep0chheh
20:11:03zhilikThe MPIO's not that bad.
20:11:46ep0chi want a small Vorbis player that might one day have rockbox on...
20:11:56zhilikIn fact appart from the rather small battery life, buggy firmware (hope that'll get fixed ;-) everything's fine.
20:12:04zhilikIt plays Vorbis.
20:12:09ep0chyup
20:12:22ep0chthat's why i'm interested in it :)
20:13:13zhilikOh, another thing - the remote connector is bad - it easilly disconnects.
20:13:30ep0chwasnt actually planning on using the remote anyway :D
20:13:35zhilikBut I don't use it.
20:13:48 Quit Lear ("Chatzilla 0.9.68.5.1 [Firefox 1.4/undefined]")
20:13:57ep0chheadphone socket is on the side, is that a pain or not?
20:14:40zhilikNot really. At least if you don't have a straight connector. (My KOSS Porta Pro doesn't).
20:14:55zhilikThe sound is good.
20:15:03zhilikI was rather amazed by it.
20:15:29zhilikIt has Line-In, Microphone. Doesn't need any stupid software (I HATE iTunes).
20:15:51zhilikCan directly encode to upto 192b/s MP3.
20:16:09zhilikA radio (it work well).
20:16:22zhilikAnd you can record the radio.
20:16:54zhilikStandard miniUSB connector (if you lose the cable, it wont be a problem to buy a new one).
20:17:20ep0chi think i read somewhere, that to use the radio you have to install some software first? that right?
20:17:43ep0chmaybe it means firmware
20:17:46zhilikI don't know. The first thing I did with it is went and got new firmware.
20:18:21zhilikAnd I don't use any softwarre.
20:18:51zhilikTo update it you DON'T nedd the MPIO utility - simply copy the files into the SYSTEM directory.
20:19:06ep0chso all in all what's the real likely hood of rockbox being ported to this thing?
20:19:20ep0chi wonder what the user base is for it..
20:19:28zhilikYes. And that's a BIG problem.
20:19:33zhilik:-)
20:20:08amiconnWtf....
20:20:25zhilikIt's very cheap. But build quality isn't high - I have a fealing that if I dropped it on a hard floor it would break.
20:20:54ep0chreally? the pictures i've seen look like its good quality
20:21:08ep0chamiconn: sup, you broken something again?
20:21:10ep0ch;)
20:21:36amiconnSeveral strange, good & bad news about my archos firmware test recording....
20:21:37zhilikThe plastic's rather thin. The 2 parts are held together with 4 small screws.
20:22:22zhilikI suggest you get the white version - the others have paint which will slowly get scratched and the player won't be a good sight.
20:22:31ep0choh noooo so 2.5 is going to be a long wait then?
20:22:31amiconn(1) The recording stopped after ~5 hours 18 min for whatever reason. Player did shut down
20:22:49amiconn(2) There are _no_ frame errors in the recording.
20:22:57ep0chall good so far
20:23:29amiconn(3) Archos somehow manages to get the _correct_ framecount even when it's not possible to read that from the MAS
20:23:49amiconn(it's greater than 0x7ffff)
20:24:13amiconnThey also manage to avoid a partial last frame
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20:24:43zhilikIf you have alook at my scans, you'll see that C616 is blown. And it wasn't me that broke it... So the build quality IS low.
20:25:04zhilikC616 is on the back next to the CF slot.
20:25:07amiconn(4) It seems they use a funny trick for their Xing header. They don't reserve the space beforehand, but write the Xing data _into_ the first frame
20:26:26amiconn...and leave no space for id3v2 (no wonder, since they don't support it for reading either). MP3 data starts at file position 0
20:26:47ep0chso to summarise how does that compare with rockbox?
20:28:32amiconn(1): Rockbox is better. No shutdown for obscure reasons (2) Rockbox doesn't manage that with high-q recordings (3) Rockbox doesn't manage that (but gets close) (4) I think the rockbox method is better
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20:37:35zhilikep0ch: So are you plannig to buy the MPIO or not? [Simply intersted.]
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20:58:56ep0chzhilik: not 100% sure :)
20:59:32zhilikWhat are the other variants? [Again, simply interested.]
20:59:39ep0chi have come close to pressing the buy button
21:00
21:00:24ep0chnone really, maybe iriver will come out with a new HD based played with Vorbis support...
21:00:37ep0chi'm playing the waiting game
21:01:10 Quit Sucka ("a bird in the bush is worth two in your house")
21:06:27zhilikep0ch: I got tired of doing that. It took me about a month to decide what I wanted. Or to be more exact, to see that such a thing simply doesn't exist.
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23:18:10 Join Sandking [0] (n=jacek@ogorek.akron.wroc.pl)
23:18:24Sandkinghi there
23:18:25Sandking:]
23:18:38Bagdergood evening
23:18:46SandkingI got my first day of using rockbox is done :D
23:19:05Sandking[ahh... it's too late to write correct english :) ]
23:19:11Bagdercongratulations! :-)
23:19:27Sandkingit feels ok aside from hanging in some situations
23:19:33Sandking[like messin with wps]
23:20:01Sandkingbut I got two questions - how to queue and what is databox?
23:20:04Bagderah, a few bugs keep you alert
23:20:19Sandking[h120]
23:20:25Bagderdatabox is one of the plugins for doing searches in the runtimedb
23:21:23Sandkingyesterday rasher [?] wrote how to use databox to play best rated songs - any tip?
23:21:27Bagderabout queue, I think you use the context-menu (long press on navi)
23:21:41Sandking[it was something like - rating > x ]
23:21:50Bagderyes, that should be possible
23:22:03Bagderbut those plugins are rather user hostile if you ask me
23:22:14SandkingI noticed that :]
23:22:16BagderI've never used them (partly because of that)
23:22:50Sandkingbut options like playing best songs and all that what db gives will be included in future?
23:23:21Bagderhopefully, yes
23:23:42Sandkinghow fast does new versions appear?
23:23:57Bagderit depends what a new version is to you
23:24:22Bagderwe offer daily builds every day
23:24:54amiconnDatabox is quite logical imho.
23:24:55Bagderwe don't do formal releases very often
23:25:02Bagderlogical yes
23:25:04Bagdereasy no
23:25:13Sandkingso all the small things can go in daily builds?
23:25:27BagderSandking: all changes that are done are available in those
23:25:32amiconnThe only user-unfriendlyness is when you are clicking together a query which is longer than the available screen space
23:25:49amiconn(very unlikely on H1x0, but very likely on the player)
23:26:21Sandkingamiconn - so how to type command to play songs starting from some rating
23:26:39Sandkingor songs that has been played / not been played certain amount of times?
23:27:27amiconnI never used rating, but I'll have a quick look at databox...
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23:28:25Moosamiconn/Bagder: what is the freeze statement please?
23:29:55amiconnSandking: Start databox, enter the filename under which you want to save your query (extension is appended automatically is omitted), then click together a query string like rating > 6 <END>
23:30:58amiconnThe query will be saved under the name (and in the path) you specified. If you want to execute the query, just run the file. You'll get a playlist in the root, search.m3u, containing the result
23:32:07amiconnI admit that entering the filename everytime is somewhat user-unfriendly, but solving that needs a way to have dual-mode plugins
23:32:21amiconn(usable both as viewer and as standalone plugin)
23:35:12Sandkingi love option to display battery charge with number
23:35:42rasherHaving the two tasks (search creating and executing) seperated is confusing to most users I think
23:35:58rasherSeperated in two files, that is
23:36:07rashertwo plugins.
23:36:12BagderI agree
23:36:53amiconnIt's debatable. The advantage is that you can store you queries and execute them multiple times
23:37:09rasherMy suggestion still allows that
23:37:30amiconnUnifying the plugins is possible, if we have that method for dual-mode plugins
23:37:40rasherIndeed.
23:37:41Bagderwe do
23:37:47rasherWe do?
23:37:48Bagderits just a matter of path
23:38:05Bagdera viewer is just a normal plugin that gets a file name
23:38:22rasherYeah, the plugins don't need changing
23:38:25amiconnBagder: I know that you can run (some of) the viewer plugins directly, but they don't appear in the plugin menu
23:38:37Bagderright, due to the path
23:38:41Bagderbeing different
23:39:15Sandkingstrange - i did the right query and it added some files that I haven't really rated
23:39:26amiconnPerhaps it would be a better idea to have all plugins in one path, and a plugin.config (like the current viewers.config) defining flags
23:39:39Bagderamiconn: yes
23:39:51Bagderthe current approach is a little naive
23:39:57amiconnOne flag for "viewer", another flag for "plugin menu"
23:40:12amiconnThe new search plugin would get both flags set
23:40:31Sandkingok guys - thanks for help today, I need some sleep - see you tomorrow
23:40:37amiconnThis method would also allow to completely hide some plugins, by setting neither flag
23:40:43amiconn(e.g. credits.rock)
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23:41:33 Quit Hans|Kaufrausch ("( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 3.81 :: www.XLhost.de )")
23:41:56amiconnOr do it the other way round for viewability, and define that a plugin not listed at all has no flag set
23:42:15amiconnI.e. one flag for "viewer", one flag for "hide from plugin menu"
23:42:57amiconnPure viewers would have both flags set, the new search plugin would only have the viewer flag set, and ordinary plugins aren't listed at all
23:43:16amiconncredits.c could then have the "hide" flag set
23:44:28amiconnEven simpler: Keep viewers.config as-is for viewers, but all plugins in /.rockbox/rocks, and hide the plugins not wanted in the menu with the "hidden" flag
23:44:40amiconn(FAT32 file system flag this time)
23:45:01 Join tucoz [0] (n=50ca630c@labb.contactor.se)
23:47:15tucozHi, are there any special plans for radio on iriver? I mean with the preset. anyway, I'll just write the obvious. Add || IRIVER_H100_PAD to line 974 for presets to work in the menu. Really nice :)
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23:47:42Mojitohi!
23:48:07tucozhi
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23:48:37tucozthat would be in apps/recorder/radio.c
23:48:44rashertucoz: linuxstb suggested this a few days ago
23:48:49rasherThere are some problems apparently
23:49:00tucozrasher: hehe, didn't know
23:50:27Mojitokonw some one here something about iriverter?
23:50:45tucozrasher: I've noticed that radio is in a, well, early state.
23:51:16Mojitoi converted a avi file there its a dvdrip in xvid and ac3 sound
23:51:17amiconnI can't imagine what problems should arise from enabling fm presets on iriver this way
23:51:30Mojitobut when i converted it with iriverter and put it on my h340.. i cant play the file
23:51:31amiconnIt might not be the optimal solution, but it should work ok
23:52:04rasherIf it works, good idea.
23:52:06tucozme neither. I just thought that it was a simple enhancement, not introducing new code. which is nice imho.
23:52:26tucozrasher. yes it works. Hmm, let me reboot and check
23:52:42rasherConfused linuxstb didn't add it
23:52:58tucozhmm, it works.
23:55:54tucozrasher: do you remember what the problems were? I've noticed that the volume needs attention.
23:56:02rasherI'll see
23:56:03tucozbut that is regardless of this :)
23:56:50tucozgoodnight
23:56:59 Quit tucoz ("CGI:IRC 0.5.4 (2004/01/29)")

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