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#rockbox log for 2005-09-23

00:00:54linuxstb_Rockbox on the H1x0 is also the first hardware device to play ALAC gaplessly. Apple can't do it on the ipod as far as I understand.
00:01:14dpassen1do any software players do it gaplessly?
00:01:21elinenbeso, now you can play anything that itunes encodes...
00:01:57linuxstb_dpassen1: I don't know. I think foobar has an alac decoder - but I'm not sure how well it's been implemented.
00:02:09 Quit Moos (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:02:14goayes fb2k can do it
00:02:19dpassen1so there's 3 lossless options now
00:02:52Zagoroverkill is our middle name
00:02:58goabut who needs ALAC if there is wapack ;)
00:03:02dpassen1FLAC, WavPack, ALAC, ?
00:03:08rasherIt plays indeed.
00:03:17dpassen1wav isn't lossless, its uncompressed
00:03:40rasherThat's still lossless, by it's very definition.
00:03:40amiconn...yes, which is lossless as well
00:03:57linuxstb_I think ALAC is the only lossless codec that's easy for Mac users to deal with. FLAC is lacking a decent Quicktime component.
00:05:23amiconnHmm, it should be simple to support aiff
00:05:40linuxstb_amiconn: It should be. We wouldn't even need to byte-swap.
00:05:58linuxstb_So it's even more efficent than WAV.
00:06:24amiconnThe good thing is that once we get the pcm codec running on MAS, we could support both wav and aiff
00:06:28amiconn(on archos)
00:06:41amiconnThe pcm codec can be programmed to do the byte swapping
00:06:52amiconn(but not the bitswapping :( )
00:07:21rasher <−− an ALAC sample if anyone wants to test
00:09:01linuxstb_One problem is that the UI is very unresponsive when playing ALAC files - even though the CPU boost is never any more than about 70%, and sometimes as low as 40%
00:09:31rasherI'm sure an optimizer-monkey will be able to figure that out
00:09:53linuxstb_I'm guessing this is because the main decode_frame() function in my libalac takes too long, and I should yield from inside that function.
00:10:35rasherI guess that makes sense
00:11:15Zagorlinuxstb_: is this based on David Hammerton's code?
00:12:07Zagorit doesn't say anywhere
00:12:43linuxstb_Yes it does - e.g. apps/codecs/libalac/README and README.rockbox
00:13:02linuxstb_In fact, all the source files inside libalac/
00:13:18Zagorbah, I'm blind. sorry :-)
00:13:35linuxstb_Can you confirm you're happy with the license?
00:13:38***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:13:44linuxstb_See the source code, or README.rockbox for details.
00:14:06rasherLooks reasonable
00:14:21ZagorYes, looks fine to me.
00:14:49rasherZagor: I asked the ipl people yesterday about the RPSL
00:14:49linuxstb_Yes, it looked fine to me as well. Also, other GPL'd project like ffmpeg have already used it.
00:15:23rasherZagor: they said that they are either a) treating the codec as a binary glob, and not linking against it ... or b) adding exceptions to the GPL
00:16:22rasherZagor: They asked why adding GPL exceptions would be a problem for Rockbox, and I failed to come up with an answer.
00:17:51linuxstb_The source code in podzilla/ doesn't seem to mention any exceptions - it's just the standard GPL text. Also, they are definitely linking against it in podzilla.
00:18:01rasherI guess they're just lying then.
00:18:06rasherAnd closing their eyes.
00:18:36linuxstb_Podzilla is here:
00:18:47Zagorrasher: GPL exceptions are quite tricky
00:18:48rasherThe idea that the codec having it's own main() function seemed to appease at least one of them.
00:19:13rasherZagor: no doubt. I don't quite understand them, so I didn't really have an explanation for them.
00:19:26rasherlinuxstb_: oh god, the horror...
00:19:50linuxstb_What do you mean?
00:19:52Zagor"If you wrote the whole program yourself, then assuming your employer or school does not claim the copyright, you are the copyright holder−−so you can authorize the exception. But if you want to use parts of other GPL-covered programs by other authors in your code, you cannot authorize the exception for them. You have to get the approval of the copyright holders of those programs." −−
00:20:32rasherAh, there we go
00:20:45rasherthe problem is that other people's gpl would need to have those exceptions as well
00:20:47rasherwhich we can't.
00:20:49rashergot it.
00:21:06Zagortheoretically we might, but it'd be a lot of work...
00:21:23Zagorand ipodlinux probably needs even more work
00:21:25rasher#ifdef USE_HELIXAACDEC
00:21:25rasher#include <aacdec.h>
00:21:27linuxstb_And I guess every contributor to Rockbox over the past 4 years would have to agree to the license change?
00:21:37rasherAnd the codecs, right?
00:21:52Zagorat least all codecs and major contributions
00:21:56linuxstb_Most of the codecs are not GPL, so maybe that wouldn't be a problem.
00:22:14rasherah, true
00:22:17Zagorwe have some glibc code. i bet that would be a challenge getting an exception for :-)
00:22:19rashervorbis is though
00:22:26rasheror not
00:22:31rasherI'm on crack.
00:22:35rasherNevermind me.
00:22:48rasherIt most definately is not. I knew that.
00:23:55linuxstb_liba52 is GPL'd, and so is libmad
00:23:57amiconnI don't quite get the point of this discussion
00:24:14rasherWe're mostly jsut pointing our fingers at IPL, I think.
00:24:17fuzziethat aac.c sure looks like the most GPL violating thing ever
00:24:19amiconnIf the license is incompatible, use the version before the license change, or dithc it
00:24:28fuzziethis license has never been compatible
00:24:35rasheramiconn: this is about the Helix thing, which never has been
00:24:41fuzziewe were just wondering how the ipl people worked around it
00:24:43rasherbut which ipodlinux is using nevertheless
00:24:45Zagoramiconn: we were simply trying to figure out how the ipodlinux guys are reasoning
00:24:48amiconnYes, but we're not bound to use it
00:24:49fuzziethe answer is definitely "by violating licenses"
00:24:53fuzzieafter checking the podzilla binary
00:25:48linuxstb_amiconn: The Helix decoder seems the best library for AAC, so it's worth the effort to consider the options.
00:25:50rasherI guess it's their luck that the people having their licenses broken are the people licensing under GPL - not Real.
00:26:08linuxstb_But I realise that we probably don't have any options, so can't use it.
00:27:09amiconnlinuxstb_: For me it is simple. If we can use the code because it's under GPL or some compatible license, we should use it. If not then not, simple
00:27:36amiconnI don't think aac support is a must
00:27:40 Quit JoeBorn ("")
00:28:01amiconnI haven't seen a single aac encoded file so far...
00:28:16rasherPeople say that about every format.
00:28:23rasherWell except mp3 I guess.
00:28:27Zagorif we ever run on ipod, aac will be useful :-)
00:28:45amiconnMP3 is widespread, ogg is interesting because it's open
00:29:09amiconnwav is simplicity
00:29:19fuzzie50% of my music collection is aac, personally.
00:29:31amiconnall others are just nice to have, but not essential
00:29:31fuzzieand a majority of the files friends send me are aac
00:29:59fuzziethe Helix decoder is C++, right, which i was told isn't supported by the rockbox toolchain?
00:30:07fuzzieor am i misremembering?
00:30:17fuzziethe only viable option license-wise seems to be faad
00:30:39linuxstb_fuzzie: I don't know. They have implemented an integer-only decoder, which I would hope is straight C. But I haven't looked at the code.
00:30:41fuzziewhich at some point i will try integrating myself, if no-one else considers it important enough
00:30:41Zagoryes, pre-february FAAD2 is available under GPL
00:31:11amiconnfuzzie: I wonder where one gets aac files from...
00:31:22rasheramiconn: itunes-store, itunes
00:31:37amiconnAh, that kind of stuff
00:31:39fuzzieencoding using itunes or the free winamp
00:31:39linuxstb_I've already done a little work to get FAAD2 (the last GPL'd version) compiling under Rockbox. If anyone wants it, let me know.
00:31:41fuzzieor Real, i think
00:31:43Zagor"FAAD2 is the fastest ISO AAC audio decoder available." −−
00:31:53rasherAh yes, Winamp does AAC encoding as well.
00:32:06 Join Gamma [0] (
00:32:07linuxstb_Zagor: But the integer version doesn't support all types of AAC files. Helix supports more in their integer version.
00:32:24linuxstb_But I'm far from an expert on AAC.
00:32:44amiconnIf encoding from CD or other lossless source - why would one choose aac over mp3 or ogg/vorbis?
00:32:52rasheramiconn: convenience?
00:33:22rasherYou have itunes, it rips in AAC. It's a no-brainer.
00:33:31amiconnWhat's convenient with a format that can only be played with a few players?
00:33:42Zagorpeople simpy use the default
00:33:58amiconnDoes itunes allow ripping in other formats as well?
00:33:59rasherIf you don't need to play them anywhere where they aren't supported, it doesn't matter
00:34:12rasherAnd such, formats spread slowly
00:34:16rashercan't really fight it
00:34:26linuxstb_amiconn: I think iTunes can rip to AAC, ALAC and "uncompressed" (i.e. WAV or AIFF)
00:34:36 Nick Gamma is now known as AlvaroTorres (
00:34:44amiconnDoes it at least rip secure?
00:35:02linuxstb_I think so.
00:35:30amiconnWeird apple stuff...
00:35:33linuxstb_There's an option for a slower type of ripping, but I forget the exact wording.
00:35:33 Nick AlvaroTorres is now known as Gammax (
00:35:58fuzzieiTunes can also rip to mp3.
00:36:10 Part Gammax
00:36:27fuzziebut, i mean, most people are going to rip to AAC, because it's much higher-quality for their use, and generally iTunes users have an iPod
00:37:16Zagoranyone here use itunes? have you tried the BadApple plugin, which enables syncing over standard usb mass-storage?
00:38:39 Join AlvaroTorres [0] (
00:40:07*linuxstb_ investigates the new simulator warnings
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00:52:56 Quit AlvaroTorres ("CGI:IRC")
01:02:34*preglow returns to the commit torrent of the year
01:02:51elinenbeZagor: I think there is another plugin that is very similar to BadApple.
01:03:08elinenbethey both treat Mass Storage Devices as ipods...
01:03:19 Join EdSolman [0] (
01:03:21Zagorwhich is that?
01:04:03EdSolmanJust been updating some more stuff on the Wiki. Could someone add in the TrashAttachment page again so I can delete in-line images and replace them??
01:04:45EdSolmanAnd before anyone asks, I've tried doing it and can't. It just errors.
01:05:04amiconnlinuxstb_: I just solved my first sudoku on Ondio :)
01:05:22amiconnHowever, I expected something to happen when it's solved...
01:05:34rasheramiconn: any ideas how to make "edit mode" availabe on ondio?
01:05:47rasher(press a button and up/down will change the digit)
01:06:12linuxstb_amiconn: I hope I haven't distracted you from hacking.
01:06:30amiconnrasher: What would be the advantage?
01:06:43linuxstb_I wasn't sure what to do when the game was solved - in the end I decided that doing nothing was fine.
01:06:51ZagorEdSolman: I've created a TrashAttachment page now. no idea what it's for though... :-)
01:07:30rasheramiconn: I just don't like the way it's working now - plus there's an up/down, instead of just up
01:07:43rasheradditionally, on iriver, using the joystick is noisy
01:07:52rasherpressing the joystick.
01:07:53EdSolmanCheers. It's for moving attachments (png files etc) to when yoyu want to remove them from a Wiki page.
01:07:57amiconnI prefer the way it is now, as it can be done one-handed
01:08:10 Quit markun ()
01:08:13amiconnrasher: You can now use Play as an alternative to Select
01:08:19ZagorEdSolman: aha
01:08:20amiconn(on iriver)
01:08:37rasheramiconn: Saw that, still don't like the "hold a button to cycle one way" thing
01:08:55amiconnI already use a combo to repeat-cycle on ondio
01:09:07EdSolmanexcept Bjorn's locked it......
01:09:24rasherZagor == Bjorn
01:09:29amiconn...but that combo (Mode+Down) can be pressed one-handed using the thumb
01:09:41linuxstb_Would it be possible to push the joystick in, and then move left/right to change the digit?
01:09:59linuxstb_Or would we still get a release event?
01:10:02rasherone-handedness is a non-issue on the iriver if you ask me.
01:10:05amiconnlinuxstb_: No, iriver can't detect multiple buttons atr once
01:10:10rashereverything can be done one-handed
01:10:14amiconn(except combos with Play)
01:10:27ZagorEdSolman: try now
01:10:40linuxstb_rasher: I still find it inconvenient to move my thumb from the joystick to another button.
01:10:46rasherexcept play+joystick combinations.
01:10:51amiconnrasher: How would you hold Play and then joystick up/down with one hand??
01:10:55linuxstb_rasher: Are you left or right handed?
01:11:13 Quit Pieter__ ()
01:11:14rasherlinuxstb_: thumb on joystick, pinky on record
01:11:26rashereh.. not pinky
01:11:29amiconnRecord + joystick up/down isn't possible
01:11:37rasherI'm not saying that
01:11:50rashermy patch uses record to enter edit-mode
01:12:06rasherso there's no movement involved (to me, anyway)
01:12:08amiconnSounds cumbersome...
01:12:18rasherlinuxstb_: right
01:12:27linuxstb_When holding the iriver naturally, none of my fingers are near the record button - they are all underneath the device.
01:12:48rashermine are reaching around it, one of them resting on record
01:13:01rasherthumb covers joystick+play/stop/a-b
01:13:08 Join bagawk [0] (n=lee@unaffiliated/bagawk)
01:13:32rasherI guess either we have differing opinions of "naturally", or you have very small fingers
01:13:36rasherprobably the former
01:14:24amiconnFor me, one-hand operation of the iriver needs two hand positions. (1) Using the joystick with the thumb, fingers underneath (2) Thumb right for play/ stop/ ab, fingers left side, middle finger for record
01:14:49rasherI don't get the "fingers underneath" one
01:14:50amiconnSide buttons and joystick together are impossible
01:15:16rasherAre you "balancing" it on the tip of your fingers?
01:15:30EdSolmanspot on. Thanks Zagor....
01:15:49rasher(2) sounds like how I'm holding it
01:16:01rasherexcept from there I can use both the side buttons and joystick
01:16:04amiconnThen how do you use the joystick??
01:16:21rasherI.. move it on top
01:16:29rashermy thumb, that is
01:16:37 Quit ender` (Connection timed out)
01:16:49Zagorwouldn't you kill for a video link sometimes? :-)
01:16:49amiconnWell, it's possible, but with little precision
01:17:06rasherwell, I'm not performing surgery
01:17:14amiconn...especially with the iriver in the leather pouch
01:17:26rasherI hardly ever use that
01:17:32rasherSo that would explain that part
01:17:37amiconnI'll probably use it all the time now
01:18:06Zagorrasher: have you added some glue or silicon to the joystick?
01:18:20rasherBut I still don't see a problem in using the thumb for the joystick there... Maybe I have weird hands
01:18:21amiconnThe iriver is too slippy without it, and badly protected against shock
01:18:24rasherZagor: nope
01:19:08amiconnrasher: I too use the thumb for the joystick, but if I want to use it with good precision, I can't reach record at the same time
01:19:14 Quit EdSolman ("CGI:IRC")
01:19:37amiconnAnyway, even you can't use Play and the joystick at the same time with one hand
01:19:59rasherIt's slightly more cramped, but nothing I'd be bothered by if record actually did anything
01:20:09rasherI never claim I could
01:20:17preglowon iriver?
01:20:39rashernot with any comfortable hand-position anyway
01:20:41preglowthat's not even a slight problem
01:20:41rasherpreglow: yes
01:20:45preglowi can do it with no problems
01:21:06rasherwhich fingers?
01:21:13preglowthumb and index
01:21:26rasheryeah that works
01:21:41rasheroh haha
01:21:47rasherof course.
01:22:20preglowi've actually used it like that sometimes
01:22:24*Zagor goes to bed
01:22:43*amiconn should do the same
01:23:22*preglow yawns
01:23:38rasherAh, now my remote-hold-indicator is always on
01:24:02 Quit paugh (".")
01:24:05rasherWell, it's not mine. But the remote-hold-indicator patch is.
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01:29:24 Join JoeBorn [0] (
01:35:31 Nick linuxstb_ is now known as linuxstb (
01:39:05preglowi wonder if i should even bother to do proper filter resampling for 48khz audio
01:39:55linuxstbI have a lot of 48KHz audio, so please do everything you can with it.
01:40:12preglowwell, what do you think of the current resampler?
01:41:17linuxstbIt sounds fine to me - but then most things do until I compare them with something else.
01:41:51linuxstbSo are you suggesting implementing something better than the current resampler?
01:42:36preglowit's going to be needed for sample rates higher than 48khz, that's for sure
01:42:45preglowbut i'm not sure if i should do the same for 48khz as well
01:43:04preglow48->44.1 gives you a band of only a couple of kilohertz, which i need to remove
01:46:45preglowplaying around with designing some iir filters now, and we'll need a relatively high order filter
01:49:09preglowand then there's the problem of whether to include only the hard coded coefs for some sample rate changes, or the entire filter design routine, which is very hard to code in fixed point
01:50:05rasherIsn't the amount of used sampling rates pretty small?
01:50:11rasherwidely used.
01:50:51preglowand i don't have to use anything very fancy, i suppose
01:50:56rasherif adding additional ones later isn't a problem, I'd definately say do the easy one
01:50:59preglowi'll have to code a filter coef generator for the eq anyway
01:51:36linuxstbMy personal list would just be 48KHz and maybe 96KHz. But storing a 96KHz file on my iriver is a bit overkill.
01:53:07amiconnWe should at least support all the standard sample rates from mpeg audio etc
01:53:53preglowi think we'll need a combination of iir filters and the linear interpolation we have now
01:54:16rasherApparently "Rockbox sounds LIKE A BAG OF SHIT, compared to Iriver FW"
01:54:18amiconnEspecially upsampling doesn't really sound good now
01:54:32preglowand yes, upsampling will need special treatment
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01:54:58*webguest76 pokes koniu_ with a stick
01:55:11preglowrasher: irivers resampling is really high quality compared to what we do now
01:55:29rasherpreglow: I don't think this gentleman is talking about resampling
01:55:49preglowthen i should like to hear what's wrong
01:56:37preglowdoesn't exactly try to help us improve, does he
01:56:50preglowso i'm forced to conclude he's full of shit
01:57:09rasherWhy, yes, I do believe he is.
01:57:20rasherThink I'll reply anyway.
01:57:32preglowi'd like to know what format he's using
01:57:37preglowwhat he thinks is wrong with the sound
01:57:38amiconnI still think rockbox actually sounds better than iriver with mp3 (44.1 kHz). Didn't compare other formats...
01:57:45preglowand a test sample
01:58:09preglowamiconn: as it should, libmad on iriver is very close to full 32 bit precision now
01:59:04rasherMaybe he likes muddyness
01:59:38 Join paugh [0] (n=kickback@2001:5c0:8fff:ffff:8000:0:3e03:6822)
02:00:09preglowthe only compromising thing i do, is throw away three bits at end of all accumulator chains
02:00:19pregloweven this can be fixed, but with a heavy penalty
02:02:27preglowtremor i believe is even higher qualit
02:02:43rasherBut then, they're likely using tremor as well
02:02:43 Quit bagawk (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:02:55preglowvery probably
02:04:28rasherI've asked him a few questions
02:06:14preglowthink i'll bookmark this thread for good measure
02:06:42rasherit's been quite strange so far
02:07:26 Join bagawk [0] (n=lee@unaffiliated/bagawk)
02:13:30preglowthere, minor annoyance removed, time to prepare for bed
02:13:42***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:14:28rasherWhich annoyance?
02:14:40preglowsee commit
02:15:13rasherthat was indeed unnecessary
02:15:28preglowleftover from when bagder converted from xxx2wav to codec plugins
02:15:51preglowthe codec plugin sources are a bloody mess
02:17:52linuxstbIn what way?
02:18:40preglowin that they are a jumble of different code styles
02:19:23preglowi wish people were better at using the same code style within one source file
02:19:37linuxstbTrue. Too much copying and pasting by different people from different sources.
02:20:55preglowoh well
02:20:58preglowbut i'm falling asleep
02:21:01preglowsee you later
02:21:19 Quit preglow ("leaving")
02:21:25rasherlinuxstb: seems no one was around to answer your question
02:22:02linuxstbrasher: No-one ever is.
02:22:16rasherWhere do the devs hide?
02:22:44rasherPerhaps they're just scarce
02:22:51linuxstbThere is the occasionally technical discussion (check the logs), but I'm never there at the right time.
02:28:53linuxstbrasher: Tried again...
02:29:08rasherYeah. This guy isn't going to be helpful for sure
02:30:28rasheror not
02:32:25 Join webguest89 [0] (
02:32:58webguest89can I safely delete the file that has the games from iriver rockbox ?
02:34:11rasherWhich file?
02:34:59webguest89the rocks file I think it is
02:35:15rasherAh, sure, but why would you want to?
02:35:36webguest89I dont play games,
02:35:44 Part webguest89
02:35:58rasherHow strange.
02:42:26*webguest76 pokes koniu_ with two sticks
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02:53:13*szszsz pokes koniu with a g-ddamn m−−−−−−g large stick
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04:00:26bagawkZagor, awake?
04:02:45 Join wacky_ [0] (
04:02:58wacky_hey :) pleased to see the CVS active again :))
04:05:08wacky_hey guys, I'd be pleased (also), to see a 'More' under the recent CVS activity, often I miss a couple of entries and I'd like to see them all :)
04:05:17wacky_anyway, just a suggestion :)
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09:20:29webguest45may be of interest to some −− the qtcomponents vorbis decoder for osx has been semi-revived, and works with 10.4 / qt7 (I had itunes 5 / qt7 / 10.3.9 working with the new version earlier today...)
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13:24:33The_Condorhello amiconn
13:24:38The_Condorare you there friend ?
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13:30:36[IDC]Dragonhi Vladoman
13:33:33The_Condorany here know about
13:33:39The_Condortwikiuser bug ?
13:37:05ZagorThe_Condor: i'm the twiki administrator. what is the problem?
13:37:32am1connhi [IDC]Dragon
13:38:50[IDC]Dragonhi am*conn
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13:39:19am1conn[IDC]Dragon: Could you please re-add the mas pcm codec info to the DataSheets page (I'm not sure how you added them, vaguely remember you added two files...)
13:39:34[IDC]Dragonyes, but not now
13:39:46am1connOther missing things are your recorder v1 uart boot images
13:40:29[IDC]Dragonyes, I had a quick look at that page
13:40:35The_CondorZagor hello administrator
13:40:39[IDC]Dragonneed to find the images
13:43:19am1connI think they were on your old web space, perhaps you still have a copy of that
13:43:40The_CondorZagor you here ?
13:44:57HClhey, what would people think about a "file listing filter" when in the file browser?
13:45:15HCllike, you could enter a string, and it would filter out all files/directories that do not contain that string
13:45:21HCllike a sort of directory search
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13:46:00javier_hello everyone
13:46:43javier_I own an iriver H340 and I have visited rockbox website, I am eager to see it working for my player
13:46:57HClmost h3xx owners are, i think.
13:47:09XavierGrHCl: Sounds good to me.
13:47:11javier_yes, most are, because iriver firmware is crap
13:47:19ZagorThe_Condor: i'm here
13:47:24The_Condorok zagor
13:47:28The_Condori search about
13:47:31The_Condortwikiuser bug
13:47:35The_Condoryou know about it ?
13:47:52Zagorno, what is it?
13:47:56javier_please, I have some general question about portable music players, is it a correct place to ask?
13:48:04HClam1conn, zagor, any comments on my idea?
13:48:11The_Condorlook this here ??,
13:48:18HCljavier_: ask ahead, we'll see if we're able to answer it
13:48:33The_CondorZagor :)
13:48:35javier_ok HCL here it goes
13:49:15javier_let's see, my mother enjoys listening to music a lot, and I bought her a mp3 player, a Creative 20G
13:49:28The_CondorZagor are you see it ?
13:49:36ZagorThe_Condor: that's an irc log with 979 lines in it. can you please be more specific?
13:50:11javier_it's a creative zen one
13:50:17ZagorHCl: I don't quite see the point. Our hardcoded filters work pretty well for most uses cases.
13:50:31javier_after I bought, I discovered it has too low contrast LCD
13:50:36javier_she can hardly see it
13:50:39HClZagor: what hardcoded filters?
13:50:43am1connHCl: I agree with Zagor
13:50:53ZagorHCl: "Music", "Supported", "All"
13:51:02HCloh. no, i highly disagree
13:51:08HClthis function would search for a file in a directory
13:51:18HClnot its type
13:51:25Zagoryes, but why?
13:51:34HClfor people with a lot of music in a single folder
13:51:40HCli personally find it a pain
13:51:43HClto have to browse 400 files
13:51:45linuxstbThe_Condor: The bug was exploited and the Rockbox Wiki was deleted. But the recovery is now almost complete. Read the IRC logs for the days following the one you quoted for the gory details.
13:51:46HCljust to get to the one i want
13:52:09HCli've been wanting to add something to allow quick browsing if you know what you're looking for
13:52:26HClmaybe it should be something thats not a filter
13:52:26Zagorit would hardly be much easier writing a search string. the keyboard is not exactly 102-key speedy...
13:52:30HClfilter would take too much time to set it up
13:52:50javier_now I own a H300 player, it has much better LCD but is complicated to use, my mother would NEVER learn it
13:53:08HClmaybe a "jump to next character in the alphabet" would be better?
13:53:27XavierGryeah something like it is more usable.
13:53:27javier_could you suggest me any player for my mother? one easiest to use?
13:53:44javier_ipod? really?
13:53:46HClmost idiots i know get an ipod
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13:53:55HClmost idiotic people seem to have them
13:53:59HClso its bound to be idiotproof
13:54:00javier_do you think ipod is the example of easy to use?
13:54:17HCldunno, never tried one, but it can't be that horrid, considering its success
13:54:26ZagorHCl: PageDown is good enough for me
13:54:26javier_for example, if I bought an archos and install rockbox, is it much easier to use?
13:54:29XavierGryeah it is quite easy to use, or so I've heard
13:54:37HClZagor: how would you do a pagedown in rockbox?
13:54:44linuxstbIf I was buying a player for my mother, I would concentrate on the PC side of things - that's potentially far more difficult to use than the player itself.
13:54:50HCland even then, thats not really good enough for my needs.. hmm..
13:54:50Zagorwe already have it. ON+UP/DOWN on archos
13:54:52XavierGrPlay+ down
13:55:01HClnot on iriver though.
13:55:18am1connHCl: Definitely possible on iriver
13:55:19HClpersonally, i'd like left/right on iriver to skip to previous/next alphabet
13:55:23javier_linuxstb: what do you mean "on the PC side of things"??
13:55:35ZagorHCl: uh? how do you go in/out of folders then?
13:55:35HCland select / stop to play / leave the directory
13:55:38linuxstbjavier_: The software used to rip CDs and organise the music on the player.
13:55:49Zagorurgh, horribly unintuitive
13:56:09*am1conn agrees again
13:56:14javier_linuxstb: I don't understand you, but don't worry, I am the one placing the music on the player, my mother just listens it :)
13:56:24linuxstbjavier_: OK - then ignore me :)
13:56:35Zagorwrecking the UI because you can't be bothered to organise your files is not a very good idea IMHO :-)
13:57:04javier_archos player with rockbox can play ogg as far as I know, it would be a good option perhaps
13:57:10HCli think i'll just make my own patch :)
13:57:14javier_but which archos?
13:57:29HCli highly disagree with saying the current rockbox interface is intuitive
13:57:37javier_it must have high contrast
13:57:38Zagorharddrive players require some level of organisation. no amount of UI tweaking makes browsing thousands of files bearable without organisation.
13:57:38HClif you go to the file browse mode
13:57:40HClwhile playing music
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13:57:55HClyou have to press *PLAY* to get back
13:57:57HClinstead of stop
13:58:00HClwhere's the sense in that?
13:58:02tucozHi, how do I attach a screenshot to the wiki?
13:58:03ZagorHCl: I agree the iriver buttons are weird. I don't like them either.
13:58:09javier_HCL: so you don't think rockbox gui is usable
13:58:10HClits not the iriver buttons
13:58:15Zagoryes it is
13:58:16HClits the assignment that rockbox gives to them
13:58:23HCljavier_: i'm saying its hardly intuitiveve
13:58:30Zagoryes, but they are much better on archos in my opinion
13:58:36tucozI thought I add a screenshot to the sudoku plugin
13:58:46HClintuitive* darnit.
13:58:52javier_HCL: yes yes, unintuitive, but original iriver isn't intuitive neither
13:58:59HClthe keys in the wps for iriver are fine
13:59:02ZagorI want a big discussion about the iriver buttons before we release it.
13:59:07HClup/down for volume, left/right for skipping/seeking
13:59:28XavierGryeah keymapping needs a little attention
13:59:34HCli dislike the quick menu on iriver too, but i'll look at that later
13:59:35javier_ok, please, people, suggest me some replacement for my mother's zen mp3 player
13:59:44javier_by the waym NEVER buy a Zen
13:59:51HCljavier_: i'd say ipod, because its proved to be fairly idiot proof
13:59:57HCldefinately not irier
14:00:04HCli have to read my iriver manual regularly
14:00:10HCland i'm used handling vague equipment
14:00:18XavierGrI disagree
14:00:23XavierGrread the manual?
14:00:23HClits impossible to keep track of the long/short keypresses on iriver
14:00:26XavierGrcome on!
14:00:36HClyes, i have to read the manual
14:00:42HClto figure out what the hell what button does
14:00:44HClin what mode
14:00:55javier_well, I disagree too, or at least, I just use what I remember
14:01:02XavierGrWell I agree that it will take some time to get used to it,
14:01:05HClwith the original firmware
14:01:08javier_anyway Ipod can play ogg? NO
14:01:23javier_and I have half of my iriver music in ogg
14:01:45javier_if I want to put this into my mothers player I must convert it into mp3 loosing in the change
14:01:51XavierGrbut with moderate use you can learn all the functions blindly
14:02:01Zagorjavier_: i'm afraid there is currently no player for sale that I would recommend
14:02:26javier_Zagor: in fact the problem is the LCD contrast, which is too low on Zen player
14:02:47XavierGrThe best DAP for now would be an H300 with a fully realeased rockbox version inside
14:02:51tucoznevermind, found out
14:03:13javier_XavierGr: well, this option is not posible :)
14:03:31XavierGrobviously, for the time being!
14:03:36tucozAnyway, what do you think of an indicator for empty directories? I mean, today when you enter an empty dir, the screen is completley blank
14:03:51HClwell, i'm not aware of portable players that play ogg, and are idiotproof
14:03:52tucozMaybe something like <empty>
14:03:54XavierGrnice idea, Icould say
14:04:05javier_in fact I think mp builders are from another world, because it is nearly impossible to generate so cumbersome players
14:04:07HClyea, i agree tucoz
14:04:10javier_with so complicated options
14:04:15javier_it must be easier
14:04:21Vladomananybody kwows where the Neuros Wiki is located?
14:04:21HClthey're not *that* bad..
14:04:23javier_looks like the like to complicate simple things
14:04:26HClpeople are just stupid :/
14:04:42javier_HCL: come on, H300 has a set of buttons which are mad!!
14:04:45Zagortucoz: well it's not that simple. the directory might in fact not be empty, since we have filters.
14:05:02HCljavier_: dunno the h300
14:05:16Zagorsaying "empty" just because we don't show any of the files is incorrect in my opinion
14:05:24javier_well, I like H300 it's nice
14:05:41tucozZagor: Yes, i do not say that it is simple. Maybe, some indicator anyway.
14:05:54tucozNeed some thoughts on this
14:05:59markunjavier_: iAudio X5 also supports ogg, but i've never used one.
14:06:06javier_I chose H300 mainly because it implemented 0gg
14:06:18javier_markun: iAudio, which manufacturer?
14:06:33am1connZagor, HCl : I disagree here. I think the rockbox button assignments on iriver are quite intuitive
14:06:54Zagoram1conn: I suspect you are just used to them :-)
14:06:57HClwell, i'm highly likely to make my own version with adjusted controls
14:07:03XavierGramiconn: I don't think so, and many users have declared their confusion in this.
14:07:12HClif people don't agree, i'll simply not commit it
14:07:26javier_markun: nice option!
14:07:31tucozam1conn: ...with the exception of play when it is select :)
14:07:32*HCl needs to think out a proper filebrowsing thing..
14:07:32javier_markun: expensive???
14:07:50HClhmmm, i know..
14:08:18markunjavier_: don't know. By the time rockbox runs on ipods they will also be able to play oggs.
14:08:37javier_markun: yes, rockbox will be the revolution
14:09:01javier_markun: I like this player you pointed because it has few buttons, my mother can't get lost too much :)
14:09:13tucozZagor: I do not know how this works, but I guess there are some kind of datastructure holding the entries of the current directory. If this == 0, then a splash or something could be shown.
14:09:28XavierGrCan you imagine it? Some years later.... companies that will make Rockbox Compatible DAPS!!! :p
14:09:41*HCl goes to make another hclproposalthingy topic
14:09:43tucozOr some datastructure holding what to be rendered to screen
14:09:46markunjavier_: This is a site of iaudio users, maybe you can get more info there:
14:10:12tucozGuess I'll have a look at the code.
14:10:14Zagortucoz: yes, but then you'd see it for some "empty" directories and not for others (which merely don't contain any unfiltered files). total confusion!
14:10:29javier_markun: I will try, I hope it can be found in Spain!!
14:10:33am1conntucoz: Displaying play and meaning Select isn't a button assignment problem
14:11:16tucozam1conn: that is true. Well, as I heard earlier, Bagders langv2 will handle this.
14:12:16markunjavier_: there have been some complaints about the iaudio interface, but someone is working on a rockbox port.
14:12:29XavierGrAmen to that.
14:12:46XavierGrIf only things were easier to port rockbox...
14:13:35javier_markun: no prob, I will read a lot before I buy anything, I don't want to be frustrated as with the creative zen
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14:13:58XavierGrCreative and their stupid proprietary fileformats
14:13:59HCli see now why stop for leaving directories won't do :p
14:14:27XavierGrI think that left/right for folder navigation is best.
14:14:36HCli agree with left
14:14:44HCli personally think right is not *needed*
14:14:49HClthough it does make sense.
14:14:49tucozZagor: good point. But then we could have some other way of showing <no supported files> then?
14:14:57XavierGrand how to enter a folder with play or click?
14:15:09HClyes, with play or click
14:15:16XavierGrbetter with right IMHO
14:15:20Zagortucoz: well, sure. but is this really a problem? the directory is quite obviously empty, since your screen is.
14:15:43HClso if people use right to select a file in the first place
14:15:44HClthat means
14:15:52XavierGrKeymapping is cinfusing with the different menus
14:15:53HClthat the select button is technically free
14:16:13XavierGrQuick menu file tree, and WPS have different feedback
14:16:16*HCl adjusts his idea
14:16:59tucozYes, it is not really a problem. But, in userland I have experienced that I have entered a empty/no supported files directory when browsing from the wps. When I then return to the browser the screen is blank and I do not really know what is going on.
14:17:47tucozI know it is knitpicking, well, you know. Maybe showing . and .. could do
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14:18:18HCldo . and .. exist within the FAT filesystem? or are they just thought up.
14:18:31tucozI don't know, hehe
14:18:33XavierGrIt is just that there are so many little details to add and so little time to adapt them and code (or debug)
14:18:45XavierGrI think they do
14:19:00webguest20hello ! why do the h3xx firmware have so many errors now ?
14:19:09HClbecause h3xx doesn't work yet.
14:19:11webguest20it was down to 3 a wile ago
14:19:24XavierGrerrors has nothing to do with it
14:19:32HClthere is no bootloader on h3xx, noone is working seriously on h3xx
14:19:34tucozwebguest20: but that doesn't indicate the status of the port to h3xx
14:19:37XavierGras long as there is no bootloader...
14:19:38HCltill there is a working bootloader
14:20:19webguest20but isnt linus working on the h3xx anymore?
14:20:22HCl(someone should add that to the bleeding edge page, if its not on there already)
14:20:27HClhe has a life, heh.
14:20:36XavierGrgood point
14:20:38ZagorHCl: they do exist in fat
14:20:44HClZagor: kay.
14:20:49HClthen i don't see a problem with showing ..
14:20:55HCli personally don't really see the point of showing .
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14:21:15XavierGrHCl: What about those rockboy optimizations. You seem that you are in need of programing something!
14:21:29HClrockboy isn't a high priority, but yea.
14:21:30ZagorHCl: it becomes a lot more annoying having to navigate to the top of the directory just to exit it
14:21:34webguest20is it when you realesed 2.5 all the errors came over you?
14:21:43HClZagor: what happened to left exiting a directory?
14:21:53HClwe wouldn't actually be using the ..
14:21:57Zagoroh, I thought you wanted to use that for something else.
14:21:58HCljust displaying it
14:21:59javier_well people, thank you for all your comments
14:22:05HClnaw, i'm replanning my idea
14:22:10XavierGrhave a nice buy
14:22:11HCli see why the left button is vital
14:22:28linuxstbwebguest20: The new H300 errors are caused by my Sudoku plugin.
14:22:36javier_and one last question, how is the H300 player port??
14:22:42HCli also see that the short press select button isn't, which means that i can neatly use it to enable my alphabet browsing mode
14:22:44XavierGridle maybe?
14:22:51javier_I have read about the state around 18th august
14:23:04tucozlinuxstb: I am writing a table for the keys in pluginsudoku. What are the keybindings for ondio and recorder?
14:23:14linuxstbI'll let amiconn explain...
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14:24:40tucozam1conn: Do you know the keys for sudoku on recorder and ondio?
14:25:02*HCl looks at his proposal
14:25:04tucozZagor: thanks
14:26:00HCl , if anyone's interested
14:26:21HCli'll be implementing it in a local build either way, so its not gonna be committed unless people will want it to be committed
14:27:18tucozAre joypress called Select on the iriver?
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14:28:25linuxstbtucoz: Check amiconn's CVS commit message - he changed the mapping last night.
14:28:40tucozlinuxstb: i'll do that
14:30:19ZagorHCl: nice page name ;-)
14:30:42HClZagor: :p
14:30:53Zagormind of I rename it BrowseByAlphabet instead?
14:31:02HClthat sounds really official
14:31:10HCland i didn't really want to give it an official name
14:31:14HCltill its actually in mainstream rockbox
14:31:35HCljust like how DatabaseV2 used to be named HClProposalThing till it was actually accepted
14:32:06ZagorI think it's better to have descriptive names and instead write in it that it's just a propsal
14:32:29HCli mostly made the wiki for reference for myself
14:32:32HClbut go ahead and rename it
14:33:15HCli'll add that its a proposal
14:33:15HClcause it must say that
14:33:46Zagorremove the heading and %TOC% while you're at it
14:34:00HCl :P
14:35:07tucozShould I call the buttons what the button defines are called? e.g. Iriver play should be called On?
14:35:22Zagortucoz: are you writing docs?
14:35:35tucozFor the Sudoku plugin
14:35:48tucozJust the keymappings
14:35:48am1conntucoz: Sudoku buttons: Recorder: Left/Right/Up/Down - move cursor
14:36:01HCli'll be amazed at the person
14:36:09am1connPlay - toggle number (hold Play for repeat)
14:36:11HClwho manages to miss the fact that its a proposal only
14:36:14am1connF1 - menu
14:36:15HCl :p
14:36:20ZagorHCl: :-)
14:36:28am1connLeft/Right/Up/Down - move cursor
14:36:38am1connOndio: Left/Right/Up/Down - move cursor
14:37:00tucozam1conn: See if this is ok.
14:37:06am1connshort Mode - toggle number (once)
14:37:13am1connlong Mode - menu
14:37:28am1connMode Down - toggle (hold for repeat)
14:37:39tucozam1conn: I looked at your commit message, and the button defines in the source
14:38:07linuxstbtucoz: I think you should move the function column to the left.
14:38:18tucozah, true
14:38:22linuxstb... and put the text in that column in bold.
14:38:51linuxstbBut thanks for taking on the documentation task.
14:40:46tucozNevermind, thanks for implementing sudoku
14:42:20linuxstbIt would be very useful if someone could find links to other .ss files that can be downloaded. Also, the basic rules of Sudoku should probably be there - I'm assuming there are still a few people who don't know them.
14:42:38tucozlinuxstb: we could add a link to wikipedia perhaps?
14:43:21linuxstbYes - the wikipedia article is v. good.
14:46:16tucozok, updated it with a links section.
14:46:28tucozgot to go
14:46:31tucozsee you later
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15:14:56*HCl hugs
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16:32:18tucozlinuxstb: if you are here, I found a sudoku program written in c, with generator and some other stash. It's in the public domain, so I guess it is ok to use.
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16:35:18tucozor if some other feel like adding a generator to the plugin
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16:38:12linuxstbtucoz: Add the link to the Wiki - I'm not planning on doing any more with the Sudoku, but maybe someone else will.
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16:58:28*rasher closes a few bugs
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17:02:59[IDC]Dragonhey Joe
17:04:36*amiconn spots [IDC]Dragon still here
17:06:48[IDC]Dragonor, just re-gaining focus
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17:50:07amiconnZagor: Is there a reason why you removed the "Index" link from the wiki pages?
17:50:19amiconnThat was one of the most useful links...
17:51:06*jonash never uses the index
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17:51:20jonashI assume Zagor didn't either
17:52:33amiconnThis link is really useful when you are looking for something, but don't know exactly how the page is called, or where it's linked
17:52:46jonashI usually just use the search
17:52:51jonashit's pretty good at showing suggestions
17:52:58jonasheh, "go to"
17:54:41*amiconn wonders what this browse-by-alphabet thing should be good for...
17:55:04jonashif you have directories with a lot of entreis
17:55:30jonashand want to jump to N
17:55:40jonashor if you're using the db browser
17:55:56amiconnUsually I just scroll through. If there would be really many entries, I would use page up/down
17:56:07amiconn(but my largest dir has some 200-ish entries)
17:56:26jonashUsing the db browser in "song mode" gives you a gazillion entries
17:56:52amiconnBrowse by alphabet wouldn't help me much, many of my files start with a number
17:57:16amiconnYes, I know
17:57:33amiconnPersonally I don't use the db, except for spotting bad tagging
17:57:43jonashThat's true, but if you have lots of songs in one dir, it's likely to be a mixed dir of everything
17:58:36amiconnI think just scrolling through is faster than nested selection
17:58:56jonashspeaking of,, playing a song from "Songs" list just crashed
17:59:06jonashit just sat there with harddisk activity, then stopped
18:00:37amiconnI can scroll through the whole 200-ish file dir in less than 10 seconds, and I can clearly see the changing first letter while the list is scrolling by
18:01:23jonashAh. After 2 minutes of furious harddisk activity, a completely unrelated song started playing
18:02:22amiconnScrolling through the whole songs list (~3000 songs) takes <30 seconds
18:02:36amiconn(on archos. Iriver should be a bit faster...)
18:03:54amiconnStarting a song from the db browser takes some time and produces heavy disk access, yes
18:04:08amiconnBut it started the right song after ~10 seconds here :)
18:04:18jonashMaybe because I was starting the "last" song?
18:04:46jonashIt was an off-by-one thing, and I have some odd tags, might be that
18:05:14amiconnLast song worked here, even faster than the other one...
18:05:24amiconnPerhaps there's an iriver-specific bug
18:05:45jonashMaybe. Or maybe my db is just a wreck
18:07:10amiconnHmm. Rockbox composes a weird playlist when starting a song from the db browser....
18:07:30amiconnSeems that this is the reason for the heavy disk activity
18:08:34amiconnBasically it treats the "songs" folder as a real folger, and tries to build the standard folder playlist
18:08:56amiconnOf course it's not complete, because the whole list doesn't fit in the dir buffer
18:09:14jonashMy dir buffer is probably set higher than yours
18:09:19jonashexplaining the longer activity
18:09:40amiconnI've set max files in dir to 500, and that's the size of the generated playlist
18:09:48jonashI think mine's 1500
18:10:25jonashWhy's that governed by the dir buffer anyway, and not the max playlist size?
18:10:27amiconnThe db browser "segments" the contents when it doesn't fit at once. The playlist is the whole 500-song segment...
18:10:52amiconnThis is because the db browser works as a virtual dir browser
18:11:05jonashyeah, got it
18:11:14amiconnThe playlist buffer can't be used for that, since it's way too small
18:12:18amiconnThe internal playlist representation is just one int per entry, that's how we can support 10000s of playlist entries even on archos, and load playlists that quick
18:13:57***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
18:17:23*amiconn just got an occasion of trapped-in-subdir after leaving id3 browser mode...
18:17:41amiconnZagor: Wasn't that effect supposed to be gone?
18:47:30*jonash wonders if battery status on iriver is really still just "basic"
18:47:37 Nick jonash is now known as rasher (
18:47:46 Join paugh [0] (n=kickback@2001:5c0:8fff:ffff:8000:0:3e03:6822)
18:47:46rasherhow did I end up with this nick
18:52:28Sucka`ate too much bacon? ;/
18:55:55rasherI meant the previous one :)
19:00:24 Quit dday ()
19:01:59linuxstbAnyone know why the "AUTOROCK" feature is in the code? (just curious...)
19:02:23linuxstbLook it apps/main.c
19:02:47 Join webguest02 [0] (
19:04:51rasherI guess we ask [IDC]Dragon
19:05:11rasher - his work it seems
19:05:20webguest02hey, congrats for the 2.5 version
19:05:34webguest02gotta test the ALAC
19:06:59amiconnlinuxstb: There are some features that are in the code, but not built as part of the official "collection"
19:07:00rasherLooking forward to Slasheri's recording work. And fs cache
19:07:09amiconnMostly because some of the devs use it
19:07:26linuxstbamiconn: Yes, I guessed it was that. I was just curious about it.
19:07:36amiconnThere are others:
19:08:19amiconn* Disk poweroff for players (doesn't work reliable on all boxes, but mine can handle it) * Backlight support for Ondio (requires hardware hack - [IDC]Dragon)
19:08:58amiconn* 8 MB mod (some of the possible combinations are built officially)
19:09:13rasherCouldn't the disk poweroff be runtime dependent on the disk model?
19:09:26rasheror is it more involved than that?
19:09:27amiconnIt's not a question of disk model
19:09:57amiconnHD poweroff crashes some players when re-enabling disk power, for whatever reason
19:10:05amiconnYou can ask Linus...
19:10:50amiconnMy player does have the otherwise "bad" Hitachi disk, but handles disk poweroff well
19:11:14amiconnVery old players don't have the disk poweroff hardware, the disk is always powered
19:11:21amiconn(but that's detectable)
19:12:02amiconnThe player flash bootloader does this detection, and doesn't enable the charging screen for these very old players
19:12:31amiconn(that's still untested, but I hope to be able to test flashing such a veryoldplayer soon)
19:17:29*[IDC]Dragon wakes up, reads his name
19:17:40amiconn[IDC]Dragon: Morning ;)
19:18:31[IDC]Dragonlinuxstb, rasher: I made the autorock definition to autostart my Alpine emulator plugin
19:18:51[IDC]Dragonshould be a CFG_xxx definition now
19:19:01[IDC]Dragonfor extra defines
19:19:19rasheror you could turn your player into a really expensive solitaire machine
19:19:52[IDC]Dragonyes, just copy rename a plugin
19:21:31[IDC]Dragonthat alpine emulator runs in the background, unless you start another plugin
19:22:05[IDC]Dragonother remote control plugins are feasible
19:23:10[IDC]Dragonamiconn: I still have the 2nd EL foil...
19:23:21 Quit webguest02 ("CGI:IRC")
19:23:41amiconn[IDC]Dragon: Yes I know, wanted to ask you about that (plus that EL driver chip)
19:23:52amiconnThe other components shouldn't be a problem
19:23:57[IDC]DragonI also have plenty of chips
19:24:15[IDC]Dragonthe inductor and the diode are a bit difficult
19:24:30[IDC]Dragonah, and the capacitor
19:24:46[IDC]Dragonbecause it requires a 100V type
19:25:38[IDC]Dragongotta leave, cu
19:25:44 Quit [IDC]Dragon ("CGI:IRC")
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20:07:09 Quit webguest20 ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
20:13:59***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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21:52:34 Join webguest41 [0] (
21:52:50webguest41hey guys! yay rockbox 2.5 is out
21:52:57 Join lImbus [0] (
21:53:01lImbushi all
21:53:19webguest41Still having charging problems since 2.4 (2.5, too)
21:53:48webguest41I have 2300mAh batteries but rockbox cherges them for only 20 minutes and then shows 100% lol
21:53:49Mxm`Pas`Bienno 2.5relase for iriver? o_o
21:54:01rasherMxm`Pas`Bien: that was never the plan
21:54:04Mxm`Pas`Bienah ok
21:54:06 Nick Mxm`Pas`Bien is now known as Maxime (
21:54:07 Quit Sucka` ("a bird in the bush is worth two in your house")
21:54:09 Nick Maxime is now known as Maxime` (
21:55:14webguest41I damage both my batteries and the jukebox when always charging the batteries with an external charger because of putting them in and out all the time
21:56:14rasherwebguest41: I don't really know anything about the charging. Neither old-charging nor new-charging, but there's a document in the wiki.. hang on
21:56:35webguest41I already red it!
21:56:57webguest41But does not help. It says rockbox 2.5 should help but it does not
21:57:06rasherare these new batteries, btw?
21:57:12webguest41BTW the archos firmware charges them nearly fully
21:57:25webguest414 months
21:57:30rasherTake it up on the mailinglist, I think the author of the charging rework follows it
21:57:37rasherdon't think he comes round on irc
21:57:42webguest41not used often
21:57:55webguest41hm ok
21:58:05webguest41I already posted it in the forums (vpn-user)
21:58:06rasherof course, some of the "elders" here should be able to give ideas as well
21:59:23webguest41I think its because the batteries reach their peak voltage very fast when charged
21:59:35 Quit HCl (Remote closed the connection)
21:59:59rasherHm, that sounds likely
22:00:11rasherat least to me
22:00:19webguest41do you think there is something wrong with the batteries?
22:00:24webguest41haven' t tried others
22:00:45rasherI don't know much about batteries/charging
22:00:51rasherSo I couldn't possibly tell
22:01:00webguest41but i don' t want to buy 2600er just to find out that they have the same problem :(
22:01:05rasherI'll just string you along and wait for someone knowledgable to come around
22:01:13 Nick solexx_ is now known as solex (
22:01:28 Nick solex is now known as solexx (
22:01:33rasherMaybe amiconn will come 'round if I mention his name?
22:01:50webguest41BTW I really __LOVE_ rockbox
22:02:03webguest41I use it since beta 1 or so
22:02:22webguest41That time even the archos firmware was better :)
22:03:34rasherMaxime`: I'm thinking iriver might be the milestone of 2.6 (purely personal speculation - not any sort of official plan)
22:04:34rasherDepending on how much progress is done
22:04:54rasherEither that, or another archos-only release in a few months
22:05:21rasherwithout any long feature freeze
22:13:33MoosHi guys!
22:13:46Moosany ondio user here?
22:14:01***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:15:54MoosI just saw one in on shop here in Paris (never see any ondio before in the market here) for 50 euros
22:16:19Moosis it one good price? I'm surpised by his size, very smal
22:16:19rasherThat's not a lot
22:16:48rasherIt can hardly get much cheaper than that, can it?
22:18:38Moosprobably not
22:18:55Moosit's because I'll probably buy one tomorrow :)
22:19:03rasherHow much RAM do they have? 128?
22:19:06Moosand one SD card at 1GO
22:19:22Mooswith SD card possibility
22:19:33rasherOf course, once you ad SD cards, they get a lot more expensive
22:20:04Moosmaybe the card will cost more than the player :D
22:20:19Moosbut sure I will found a good buisness
22:20:56MoosArchos is french but not a lot of users here :)
22:21:21Moosand in the market too
22:23:19Moosa part amiconn, are they fex ondio Rockbox user or developers?
22:24:30Moosamiconn: u there?
22:24:41rasher[IDC]Dragon is the other ondio developer
22:25:22Mooshey, I forget him :) and he is important of them
22:26:53Moosdifference betwen ondio fm and sp is just the FM radio?
22:27:16rasherPretty much, I think
22:27:52Mooshehe :)
22:28:04rasherthe FM will record - not sure which sources
22:28:26Moospitty I saw one ondio SP
22:28:30webguest41everything at once :)
22:28:38rasherDon't know if it has a line-in or if it'll just record FM
22:28:38Moosbut I've got my iriver h140 too ;)
22:29:23lImbusallow me to step in. Ondio SP is SimplyPlayer
22:29:34lImbusthe fm is recorder for incorporated mic and line in as well
22:29:45rasherExcellent, someone who knows things
22:29:45lImbus(I got both)
22:29:52Moosok thanks
22:30:13lImbusyou're welcome
22:30:28MoosI didn't know they are still in market
22:30:45lImbusebay is always a market
22:31:15 Quit webguest41 ("CGI:IRC")
22:32:04Mooslimbus: but "des fois il y a des petites surprises, la roue tourne" :)
22:32:16Moosthanks for french translations ;)
22:32:18 Join paugh [0] (n=kickback@2001:5c0:8fff:ffff:8000:0:3e03:6822)
22:32:29Moosin Rockbox
22:32:33lImbusyou ask me to translate ?
22:33:02Moosno, I thank you for your translations made in Rb firmware :)
22:33:09lImbusI see
22:33:25lImbusyou're welcome again. it's a pleasure for me
22:33:36Mooslittle detail, the ReplayGain translation
22:33:58Moosfor me ReplayGain is it patent and don't change with languages
22:34:18lImbusI'vee been thinking about.
22:34:22*rasher strongly disagrees
22:34:40lImbuson one hand yes, on the other hand, you could drive the english version then as well
22:34:49rasherI believe the translation should make it evident to the user what it's doiing
22:34:49Moos"adaptation du volume" is like volume adaptation in english and isn't ;)
22:34:55Moosrasher; why?
22:35:06Moosyes it's true
22:35:09lImbus(english is my third or fourth language, and I am always running the english)
22:35:16rasherBecause that's what translations are for - to make people who don't speak the language able to use it
22:35:19Moosbut for me is one question of respect
22:35:43rasherI changed ID3 in some place as well.
22:35:45Moosit's true again
22:35:52lImbusthere is probably a better translation, I agree. But not translating is seldom a better way
22:35:54rasherbecause it really isn't very descriptive
22:36:20Moosrasher: how want you any user use RG if he don't know what is it
22:36:29 Join webguest80 [0] (
22:36:41Moosif he is taged RG some files
22:36:44rasherof course, it'll make more sense to technical users if we left such things untranslated
22:36:53Moos=he know what ReplayGain is
22:37:17MoosReplayGain need to create id3tag info
22:37:31Moosif the user do it with foobar...
22:37:48Mooswhy "adaptation du volume" is needed?
22:37:53Moosjust wondering :)
22:38:18lImbuswhat's the translation of RG in foobar ?
22:38:22lImbusthat's the question
22:38:36MoosReplay Gain is in foobar
22:38:43lImbusin french ?
22:38:58lImbuswe should not bother about problems that occur because users either know to much of technics nor use too much english
22:39:14Moosno I've got foobar in english :)
22:39:16lImbusmyself decided to have the rockbox in english for THAT reason
22:40:08Moosanyone will use ReplayGain if he don't know it
22:40:15 Part Nibbler ("Leaving")
22:41:03Moosbut like I said few lines before is it just one detail ;)
22:41:50lImbusI would bother if I'd cvs commit access. i'm not going to submit a patch for that in the tracker, even if rasher and I would agree :D
22:42:11rasherMoos: could be some ripping programs added RG tags
22:42:25Moosyes it's true
22:42:29rasherlImbus: I'd commit it anyway. I'm not going to play language-cop
22:42:41rasherBut I still disagree.
22:42:48Moosbut generally user need to choose the option, never see it by default
22:49:24 Join t0mas [0] (n=Tomas@unaffiliated/t0mas)
22:49:39 Join Dan|2 [0] (
22:49:42rasherevening t0mas
22:49:49t0maswarm welcome ;)
22:49:51Moosllmbus: pv msg
22:49:52Dan|2my iriver
22:49:54rasherAnd you, Dan|2
22:49:57Mooshi t0mas
22:49:59Dan|2is frozen on reading file system
22:50:07t0mashi Moos, rasher and Dan|2
22:50:09rasherDan|2: this is a faq
22:50:17Dan|2i booted into the iriver firmware
22:50:28Dan|2how the hell do i turn it off?
22:50:40t0masDan|2: I had that too
22:50:45t0masuse the reset button
22:50:51t0masor wait for the batts to run empty
22:51:03Dan|2reset button, located where?
22:51:07t0mas(they might be already almost empty... that makes the iriver fw hang sometimes)
22:51:18rasherDan|2: next to the usb port
22:51:21rashersmall hole
22:51:26t0masuse a paperclip
22:51:28rasheruse something wide - not a pin
22:51:36MoosI just noticed few months don't used iriver fw :D
22:52:01Dan|2got it
22:52:10t0mashm... and if it doesn't boot, even after fully recharing batteries... please make a raw drive image and find some way to upload it here
22:52:15t0masand then format the drive
22:52:27t0mas(oh and tell us what the last disk operation you did from rockbox was)
22:52:28rashera raw image... of a 20/40gb plaer?
22:52:34t0masrasher: I really want one
22:52:46MooslImbus: are you registred?
22:52:59t0masI imaged mine with dd before I fixed it... but I lost the image in a "cleaning" cycle at work
22:53:07rashert0mas: I understand this, but..
22:53:10lImbusMoos, registered where ? in freenode, yes
22:53:17t0massomeone didn't like the 20 GB file on a network drive :P
22:53:36MooslImbus: don't see my pvs? ;)
22:53:41rashershould've transferred the image on your iriver... wait.
22:53:52rasherDan|2: what happened?
22:54:10t0masrasher: but we need some image of a crashed iriver FW, so we can find out what rockbox does to the disk that iriver doesn't like
22:54:11Dan|2hit reset
22:54:16Dan|2it booted into rockbox
22:54:24Dan|2then i shut it down and booted it into iriver
22:54:27Dan|2and it works
22:54:35rasherYou lucked out, it seems
22:54:54rasherSometimes it's a "broken" filesystem and the iriver firmware will not boot no matter what you do
22:55:07Dan|2is it supposed to make a high pitched whistle when it starts?
22:55:15Dan|2Hd probably
22:55:44t0masrasher: have we found more cases? or just mine?
22:55:51rashert0mas: Mine did it
22:56:00t0maswe really need an image of such a drive
22:56:12Dan|2when mine does it, ill upload
22:56:15rasherAnd it's been reported a few times on misticriver
22:56:16Dan|2or mail it
22:56:17t0masjust to find out what's wrong with it... (linux chkdsk didn't think there was a problem)
22:56:32rasherNeither did scandisk, iirc
22:56:39rasherin my case anyway.
22:56:44t0masDan|2: best would be to compress it and write it to 3 or 4 DVD's
22:57:12t0masrasher: we can ask the next user to remove all music from the drive with windows delete...
22:57:14Dan|2im still kinda worried about the high whistling
22:57:17t0masthen check if it still doesn't work
22:57:22 Quit paugh ("Leaving")
22:57:22Dan|2and it gets hot(ish)
22:57:26rashert0mas: it did for me
22:57:27t0masand ask em to send us a compressed image
22:57:28Dan|2yea it works
22:57:33Dan|2its always done that
22:57:45Dan|2bbiab tv
22:57:49t0masrasher: it was fixed by deleting?
22:57:55t0masah ok
22:58:04 Nick Dan|2 is now known as Dan|away (
22:58:04*Dan|away Away: [T.V]
22:58:08t0masI just formatted the drive...
22:58:08rasherI believe so at least, it was quite a few months ago
22:58:16rasherdon't think I formatted
22:58:37t0maswell... then we really need all data... so we can't compress much
22:59:00rasherProbably not, no
22:59:07lImbusJonas, is there anything else than adapting MissingAttachments if I upload the attachments for TerraTecM3Po now ?
22:59:20rasherlImbus: no, there's no list elsewhere
23:02:23 Join mongey [0] (
23:02:42lImbusrasher: thanks for the rebuilding work already done
23:03:11rasherNo problem, just doing my part
23:04:02rasherhi mongey
23:04:40mongeyrasher? are u on MR
23:05:15mongeyMR name
23:05:29mongeymy bad
23:05:43mongeyare u contributing to rockbox
23:06:03rasherA bit
23:06:59mongeydo you know much bout it
23:07:54rasherDepends what.. why don't you just ask whatever question you have and we'll see if I or anyone else can answer it?
23:09:41mongeywell ok, when will work start on the h300's, lcd stuff so we can see evidence of rockbox on the h300
23:11:12rasherWhenever someone writes a bootloader, work will begin on the LCD driver, and when that's done, most things should happen quite quickly
23:11:24rasherThe bootloader is currently in the hands of Linus
23:11:36rasherAnyone's free to write one of course
23:11:55MoosLinus will be probably again the guy when he will have time :)
23:12:37mongeyhow long(estimate) will the bootloader take
23:12:51Moosanyone know
23:13:31Moossame Linus does not know
23:14:26mongeywat new features will be implimented
23:15:01Moosyou know the creativity of the developers ;)
23:15:10 Join HCl [0] (
23:15:39Mooshi HCl
23:18:48mongeywat type of stuff
23:19:16Mooswe can imagine maybe video stuff for examples
23:19:30Moosthat depand
23:19:43mongeywell i was told that it will be in grayscale
23:20:07Mooshow many developers will be in H3xx part especialy, h1xx stuff is for h3xx too
23:20:45Moosthe colors will be great for Rockbox and again one new step like always ;)
23:21:14mongeywill there be pictures and music at the same time
23:21:18Moosthe patience is needed ;)
23:21:35rashermongey: why wouldn't there be?
23:22:24lImbusrasher: TerraTecM3Po is fixed
23:22:35rasherlImbus: excellent, not that much to go now
23:22:47lImbuswas not that much work for me as well
23:22:50 Quit mongey ("CGI:IRC")
23:32:16rasherCan you check the shortcut cvs aliases? I think rockbox or rockbox-devel is wrong
23:32:26 Quit Maxime` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:33:05Zagorwrong how?
23:33:33rasherhang on, I haven't tested, I just remembered that I had some problems half a year ago
23:33:39rashercan't remember exactly what it was
23:35:41rasherwell, that worked fine
23:36:22rasherMaybe it was the bootloader. Which really isn't important anymore
23:36:37rasherand in fact shouldn't be included
23:37:07rasherZagor: I'm going to say nevermind.
23:38:28rasherah, rockbox-devel even includes bootloader
23:39:28 Join webguest47 [0] (
23:41:48rasherZagor: Maybe it was something that got fixed, I'm pretty sure there was something wrong back then, ages ago
23:44:42 Nick Dan|away is now known as Dan|2 (
23:44:42*Dan|2 Back: [T.V]
23:44:48 Nick Dan|2 is now known as Dan (
23:50:37 Join TiMiD[FD] [0] (n=TiMiD[
23:51:03rasherevening TiMiD[FD]
23:54:54rasherHCl: you there?
23:55:11TiMiD[FD]are there any devs here ?
23:55:32TiMiD[FD](hi rasher :) )
23:55:49rasherI think Zagor's around
23:56:16rasherWhat are you after?
23:56:30TiMiD[FD]it's about the remote
23:57:49TiMiD[FD]I thought that before foing a patch it would worth it to discuss with some dev
23:57:54ZagorTiMiD[FD]: the remote and main display will not be completely separated (do different things)
23:57:55rasherI think amiconn's had the most thought on this
23:58:38TiMiD[FD]I had differents ideas about the implementation, but I don't want to go eyes closed
23:58:39Zagorif would make the core code more complex than it's worth
23:58:52TiMiD[FD]muti-thread is sure a little heavy

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