#rockbox 2005-10-18

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#rockbox log for 2005-10-18

00:10:12	preglow	hmm, i too wanted to switch to libmusepack at some point
00:10:28	preglow	but the poor seeking support scared me a bit
00:10:37	InnerPhalanx	i swear i'm the only person here that doesn't use linux
00:10:43	InnerPhalanx	but i iused to
00:10:52	preglow	i use windows :>
00:10:56	InnerPhalanx	oh
00:10:57	InnerPhalanx	nvm
00:10:57	preglow	develop on linux, though
00:10:58	XavierGr	I don't use linux too!
00:11:13	InnerPhalanx	linux just sorta confuses me
00:11:18	InnerPhalanx	i need stuff to be fast sometimes
00:11:21	InnerPhalanx	i'm not that patient
00:11:21	InnerPhalanx	=p
00:11:23	preglow	haha
00:11:31	preglow	i can use linux very well, i just don't use it for desktop
00:11:34	preglow	that is, not often, at least
00:11:44	InnerPhalanx	that's the other thing
00:11:47	XavierGr	I would gladly used Linux if I had the chance to take all my programms there
00:11:55	InnerPhalanx	same
00:12:11	InnerPhalanx	but linux isnt exactly geared towards the average consumer, especially not 14 year old ones
00:12:16	XavierGr	in any case I think I will be forced to use Linux when Windows Vista is out....
00:12:38	InnerPhalanx	though, i am probably the only 14 year old who reads 2600 and listens to podcasts (including their podcasts) and npr
00:12:42	InnerPhalanx	so... heh
00:12:52	InnerPhalanx	yeah vista is just shaping up to be crap, pretty much
00:12:56	XavierGr	(not that I paid anything to microsoft for their crappy OS)
00:13:10	InnerPhalanx	i did, because i was lame at the time
00:13:32	InnerPhalanx	and so i made up for it by getting a slipstreamed win2000 for my laptop
00:13:55	XavierGr	come to think of it after so many Windows version a minor (but very annoying bug) still remains (not to comments on the major ones)
00:14:07	InnerPhalanx	=p
00:14:10	InnerPhalanx	coughbsodcough
00:14:14	XavierGr	Folders can't remember their positions!
00:14:31	InnerPhalanx	so true
00:14:36	XavierGr	I have been reading pages and making various hacks to succed this
00:14:39	InnerPhalanx	xp fooled with that a little, but not enuough
00:14:55	InnerPhalanx	and in win2000 on my laptop
00:14:55	XavierGr	I even ended up to lock all the folders not change settings even if you force them.
00:14:58	InnerPhalanx	it always does remember it
00:15:09	InnerPhalanx	so i go to my docs and im like "wtf, where's my effing pdf, m8?"
00:15:26	XavierGr	But noooooo once the folder buffer is silled it will start again to forgot folder positions one by one...
00:15:37	InnerPhalanx	yeh
00:15:58	InnerPhalanx	do you know where i can find out how long my computer's been on?
00:16:20	XavierGr	I have set the folder buffer setting even to 1 million (after several normal tries) but I think that it has nothing to do with it.
00:16:41	XavierGr	No I don't it would be cool to know though... :P
00:16:46	InnerPhalanx	yeah
00:16:53	InnerPhalanx	it'd be a few weeks for mine
00:17:16	XavierGr	not a chance, for me a couple of days.
00:17:28	InnerPhalanx	=p yeah
00:17:32	InnerPhalanx	i definitely need to upgrade
00:17:34	InnerPhalanx	750 duron, baby!
00:18:18	XavierGr	the only reason I leave my PC on is p2p!
00:19:13	InnerPhalanx	heh, the only reason i leave mine on is because it became a habit back when my computer would randomly restart on startup like 50 times until starting up correctly.
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00:19:40	XavierGr	:X
00:19:53	leachbj_	hey, has anyone done any programming with the IriverH3XX?
00:21:18	InnerPhalanx	no, but i'd love to know if there's a sleep mode plugin that goes by time, and not # of tracks
00:21:57	InnerPhalanx	podcasts are usually 1/2 - 1 hour long, but if i set it for one track, then what if i wanna listen to some music on the way home from school?
00:26:00	InnerPhalanx	so, does anyone know of any good podcasts, while i'm sorta on the subject?
00:26:31	XavierGr	what is a podcast anyway?
00:26:40	InnerPhalanx	ok, you know what rss is right?
00:27:27	XavierGr	something with news and bookmark feeds, I am not sure.
00:27:37	InnerPhalanx	rss is like
00:27:43	InnerPhalanx	it's like, an xml page
00:27:57	InnerPhalanx	with multiple news stories
00:28:05	XavierGr	yes and?
00:28:30	XavierGr	so a podcast is like that with audio?
00:28:30	InnerPhalanx	that can be easily...parsed
00:28:35	InnerPhalanx	wait
00:28:48	InnerPhalanx	it can be easily parsed by an rss reader to show author, source, etc etc
00:29:00	XavierGr	ok
00:29:14	InnerPhalanx	now, using something very similar to rss/xml
00:29:26	InnerPhalanx	you have a podcast catcher, which is like a feed reader
00:29:40	InnerPhalanx	(btw, for a free online feedreader, reader.google.com)
00:29:42	InnerPhalanx	andway
00:29:44	InnerPhalanx	*anyway
00:30:08	InnerPhalanx	it automatically updates on a certain schedule, and downloads mp3s
00:30:18	InnerPhalanx	usually like a radio show or something
00:30:35	XavierGr	oh i got it!
00:30:40	InnerPhalanx	and then you can put that on an mp3 player or a (newer) pda or whatever and listen to it
00:30:59	XavierGr	so you can hear latest news and shows according to your preference right?
00:31:02	InnerPhalanx	a lot of places (like 2600) have podcasts of their radio shows
00:31:11	InnerPhalanx	right, for instance, slashdot has rss
00:31:31	InnerPhalanx	and a completely separate organization (slashdot review) talks about slashdot articles in a daily podcast
00:31:40	XavierGr	seems interesting
00:31:49	InnerPhalanx	pretty much, this guy makes a new mp3 every day, updates the feed, and everyone downloads it
00:32:01	InnerPhalanx	and they walk around with their mp3 player and listen to it
00:32:33	InnerPhalanx	if you know a little something about xml, you can figure out how rss works to an extent: http://rss.slashdot.org/Slashdot/slashdot
00:33:08	InnerPhalanx	http://slashdotreview.com/
00:33:13	XavierGr	ok thanks maybe I will give it a shot when I found some time.
00:33:19	InnerPhalanx	yeah, it's good stuff
00:33:41	InnerPhalanx	i sync (yay for windows briefcase thingy) in the morning and listen to them on the way home from school
00:33:49	InnerPhalanx	maybe to if i start walking to school.
00:34:22	InnerPhalanx	and a great podcast finding place would be.. http://www.podcastalley.com/
00:34:41	InnerPhalanx	ones to get: free talk live, 2600 podcasts, engadget
00:34:49	InnerPhalanx	cnn has some, npr has some
00:34:50	InnerPhalanx	anyway
00:34:57	InnerPhalanx	i gots to go eat, we can talk more in a bit
00:35:22	XavierGr	bye! and bon apetite.
00:46:15	InnerPhalanx	thanks, and i'm back
00:47:44	InnerPhalanx	so yeah, definitely check out podcasting, especially since you probably have an mp3 player (otherwise, why would you be in this channel? =p)
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00:53:03	]RowaN[	have u guys seen this? http://www.theneuros.com/index.php/Category_Roadmap:Neuros_III
00:54:27	InnerPhalanx	no, i have not.
01:00
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03:26:04	shasty	hello
03:26:34	shasty	would anyone here be interested in developing firmware for the Toshiba gigabeat?
03:27:12	shasty	it runs a linux kernel and has a 400mhz processor underclocked to 300mhz
03:27:52	shasty	it doesnt currently have video capability, but with new firmware, it could
03:28:11	shasty	if anyone is interested go to wwww.mygigabeat.com
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05:00
05:15:12	thegeek_	is there no better way to have voice for all files, than to have the .talk files in the actual folders?
05:15:59	thegeek_	would it not be a lot better to just recreate the filetree and have the talkfiles in that (virtual) filetree?
05:16:08	thegeek_	just gets so messy with .talk-files everywhere
05:20:01	thegeek_	unless this has been fixed before, I think I might just have found something that annoys me enough to warrant a codeparty
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10:48:48	markun	preglow: Last night I made a natural crossfeed filter. So far in a stand alone app, but I will port it to rockbox soon.
10:54:46	preglow	markun: crossfeed filter?
11:00
11:08:26	markun	http://www.headwize.com/projects/showfile.php?file=meier_prj.htm
11:09:58	markun	Is it easy to make a high pass filter?
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11:18:20	preglow	yes
11:19:53	markun	I made the low-pass by averaging, sounds quite ok.
11:19:57	preglow	depends on what order it needs to be
11:20:25	markun	One problem with the crossfeed filter is that it introduces a bit more bass.
11:22:41	preglow	a simple one pole should probably do if you just want to kill some bass
11:22:53	preglow	but gotta go for a sec
11:22:57	markun	ok
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13:00
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13:31:42	ripnetuk	good news about iriver remote screen work
13:32:26	Bger	what news ?
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13:53:11	ripnetuk	someone posted a patch to make remote screen work
13:53:22	ripnetuk	someone keing kevin ferrare
13:53:53	preglow	he's not the first one to post such a patch
13:53:57	ripnetuk	it seems to work really well (as far as it goes). Its take the approach of an independent screen, which i believe was the prefered approach by the elders
13:54:02	preglow	as a matter of fact, this one does less than the previous one
13:54:08	preglow	but seems to use a better approach
13:54:32	ripnetuk	yes, i think it was agreed that seperate screen was way to go
13:55:04	preglow	in the little while i tried it yesterday, i made it crash my unit :>
13:55:18	preglow	apparently, pressing buttons while the main unit is in wps wasn't a good idea
13:55:38	ripnetuk	yes,i made it crash as well
13:55:49	ripnetuk	but all it needs is a 'WPS should go here' screen
13:55:56	ripnetuk	until we do a proper wps
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13:58:41	Moos	yes great works of TiMiD :)
13:58:52	ripnetuk	timid?
13:59:14	Moos	is Kevin Ferrare
13:59:19	ripnetuk	ic
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14:00
14:00:01	Moos	but for he continue working on it, he need some feed back of core dev
14:00:07	ripnetuk	yes
14:00:23	Moos	for now just file tree
14:00:30	ripnetuk	its very hard to carry on working on somehting like this without the framework being in cvs
14:00:47	ripnetuk	does anyone know if it breaks compatability with other targets (archos etc)?
14:01:44	_FireFly_	ripnetuk: if you want a fully working remote(clone mode) you can use my patch hon home.arcor.de/s.wezel :) but TiMiDs approach is better
14:02:16	Moos	Firefly: why don't collaborate with him? :)
14:02:16	ripnetuk	fire - thanks, i think i might have already tried it
14:02:32	ripnetuk	FireFly did it first
14:02:34	Moos	Firefly: for full support
14:02:35	ripnetuk	i think
14:02:54	Moos	Xavier did it first :D
14:02:58	_FireFly_	yepp
14:03:02	Moos	then Firefly
14:03:22	_FireFly_	but Xavier had loost the sync with the cvs
14:03:38	_FireFly_	lost
14:03:44	Moos	yes indeed
14:04:28	ripnetuk	thats why IMHO the already working core functionality
14:04:34	ripnetuk	by TiMiD
14:04:43	ripnetuk	should be put in CVS asap (unless it breaks other targets)
14:04:59	Moos	apear it's breaks nothing
14:05:01	ripnetuk	but I guess the project leaders dont want beta code in the cvs
14:05:09	Moos	but need opinions
14:05:18	Moos	Zagor, Bagder, amiconn...
14:05:25	Moos	before commit
14:05:26	ripnetuk	is there someone (other than the mailing list) I can formally approve of it :)
14:05:29	ripnetuk	somewhere
14:05:36	ripnetuk	LinusN as well
14:05:46	Moos	:) I think so
14:05:54	Moos	we want it all
14:05:58	ripnetuk	NOW
14:06:03	Moos	:D
14:06:38	ripnetuk	i reckon once its in CVS the remaining screens can be picked off one by one, possibly by different developers
14:06:38	Moos	it's easy to commit it for one dev with CVS access :)
14:06:49	Moos	yes absolutly
14:07:07	B4gder	I've had and still don't have any time to review/commit
14:07:11		Quit Febs (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
14:07:14	Moos	and TiMiD himself would continue working on it too
14:07:27	Moos	hi B4gder
14:07:34	B4gder	hey ho
14:08:03	Moos	Linus busy too, long time don't see him here :-)
14:08:29	B4gder	he pretends he has a life ;-)
14:08:38	Moos	:-) sure
14:08:40	ripnetuk	:) ive seen him on the mailing list
14:09:33	B4gder	rockbox-dev is now truly available on gmane.org
14:09:54	ripnetuk	gmane is a very userful site
14:09:58	ripnetuk	useful
14:10:40	ripnetuk	on a completely different topic - do the iRiver sims use the rockbox codecs to play mp3s? or do they fake it with a linux / win mp3 player?
14:10:56	B4gder	rockbox codecs
14:11:04	ripnetuk	ive been considering trying to port the sim to Windows Mobile for my smartphone, as there are no decent mp3 players on it
14:11:07	ripnetuk	cool
14:11:48	B4gder	that was the whole point of adding sound actually, to enable debugging of sound-related code on host
14:12:00	ripnetuk	i havent build the sim in years
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14:18:42	ripnetuk	does the sim build with gcc4?
14:19:14	B4gder	yes
14:20:06	_FireFly_	it seems that a nptlonly glibc doesn't work with the sim
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14:20:51	amiconn	hi LinusN :)
14:20:55	LinusN	hi
14:21:04	Moos	Bonjour
14:21:50	ripnetuk	gday
14:21:58	amiconn	LinusN: I have some questions concerning crt0.S
14:22:07	LinusN	oki
14:23:07	Moos	(Linus: did you have a bit of time for look at the multi display patch?)
14:23:16	LinusN	Moos: not yet
14:23:26	Moos	ok
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14:24:54	amiconn	(all concerning SH1 for now - I want to save some space, and at the same time the smaller routines might be even a bit faster)
14:27:05	amiconn	(1) Iiuc the copying of some vectors (lines 330..390) is only necessary for debug builds, so it could be #ifdefed out for normal builds (#ifdef DEBUG)?
14:28:30	amiconn	(2) any objections against shortening the zero-bss, iramcopy, datacopy and stack-munge routines?
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14:34:11	LinusN	(1) Sure
14:34:25	LinusN	(2) No objections
14:35:32	amiconn	okay, so I'll do that
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15:52:33	HCl	whats the latest h140 bootloader, and is it stable?
15:53:16	preglow	eh?
15:53:19	preglow	the one on the wikipage
15:53:33	preglow	and i hardly think it'd be there if it wasn't stable
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16:06:28	HCl	k
16:06:30	HCl	just cehcking
16:06:32	HCl	checking
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22:38:00	lamed	hey all!
22:38:38	lamed	anybody knows how to see mp3 lame tags, checking if they are there?
22:39:37	lamed	in what program to use, that is.
22:40:32	BBub	you mean id3tags?
22:40:35	lamed	i was making mp3's out of wav files in CDEX using lame, and i want to make certin if that builds the correct time tags for gapless or not.
22:42:25	lamed	(yes, id3tags, i guess, if that what Lame does)
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22:52:32	lamed	by my test, it seems Lame builds tags fine just by wav files, and rb is using them fine.
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23:09:42	muesli-	hi
23:10:48	muesli-	exception in thread "main" java.lang.noclassdeffounderror: songdb/jar while using makedb.bat and creating a db. does somebody know how to fix this?
23:11:24	Bagder	my guess: no
23:11:41	muesli-	it was working once upon a time...
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23:12:40	Bagder	actually, I think HCl is the only one who ever touched that java code
23:13:25	muesli-	yeah..but he pretends to be offline
23:13:30	Bagder	hehe
23:13:57	muesli-	anyway...i am not a friend of the db thoug
23:13:58	muesli-	h
23:13:58	Moos	offRockbox... :D
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23:18:13	muesli-	amiconn does the bootloader check on start which hdd (size) is build in?
23:18:44	Bagder	no
23:18:56	muesli-	mk..makes sense
23:19:28	muesli-	because my i140 will is recognized as an 120
23:19:35	muesli-	-will
23:19:44	Bagder	recognized by what?
23:19:54	muesli-	thats the question
23:20:18	muesli-	just see the boot screen when you turn it on
23:20:20	Bagder	the bootloader is the same for 120 and 140
23:20:27	Moos	H140 & H120 concidered like 120
23:20:37	Moos	oops :)
23:20:53	muesli-	ok...makes sense ;)
23:21:21	muesli-	i was just curious
23:22:44	amiconn	I just discovered a funny effect. I have the same album encoded both as flac and wavpack, for testing. With flac, the peakmeter visibly lags...
23:23:57	muesli-	anyway..gotta go
23:24:00	muesli-	cya
23:24:07	Moos	good night
23:31:54	lamed	if converting a file from Mp3 -> wav - > Mp3 (yeah, back to mp3, same quality, just for cropping and stuff) should harm it's quality?
23:32:39	markun	everytime you encode you throw away information
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23:35:51	lamed	but that's the thing, even if you take an mp3, load it onto an editor (goldwave/soundforge etc) edit it and save, doesn't it re-make it anyhow? then it should throw data in every save.
23:38:35	lamed	?
23:38:50	lamed	anyone?
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23:41:20	linuxstb	lamed: It depends on the editor. There are some editors (e.g. mp3directcut) that can edit mp3 files without re-encoding. I have no idea what the editors you mentioned do.
23:42:02	linuxstb	But you can probably tell by how long the load and save operations take to perform.
23:44:02	amiconn	There are only very limited possibilities to edit an mp3 without re-encoding, namely cutting (only at frame boundaries), and coarse volume adjustment (1.5 dB steps) per frame, in a limited range. These possibilities are offered by specialised progams like mp3directcut
23:44:41	amiconn	All other editing requires decoding and re-encoding, so if you use a lossy format like mp3, some quality is lost everytime
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23:46:10	amiconn	Therefore it is not recommended to encode audio in any lossy format unless you are sure that no further processing is necessary.
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23:47:54	amiconn	Btw, it's the same with image processing: lossy formats (e.g. jpeg) should be avoided except for the final result.
23:49:49	linuxstb	amiconn: Is there any reason you made those changes to crt0.s (apart from the fun of it) ? Have we gained anything?
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23:51:26	preglow	amiconn: and why not use jra and co instead of the explicit bra.x? then gas will select the smallest possible size for the jump
23:51:37	amiconn	The coldfire changes are probably unnoticeable. Code got 28 bytes smaller and should be a bit faster, but the code is executed only once anyway
23:52:15	amiconn	I mainly did it for symmetry with my archos changes, which gain some more space (~100 bytes), and since archos is always short on space...
23:53:27	amiconn	preglow: I like being explicit ;)
23:57:14	amiconn	I also wanted to get a better understanding of the init code. Going to implement the 2 additional iram sections...

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