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#rockbox log for 2006-04-18

00:00:00amiconnlostlogic: Why not?
00:00:03mikolaspreglow, the battery only lasts about 8 hours even with stock firmware
00:00:05preglowlostlogic: sure it is
00:00:17amiconnida pro seems a bit lazy, bset to memory is always bset.b
00:00:40lostlogicregister + offset indirect addressing... I must have missed that part of the course.
00:00:53amiconn(and coldfire doesn't care about alignment anyway)
00:01:35mikolashope arm assembler isn't too hard as coldfire felt familiar right away bcos of democoding for the amiga back in the days :-)
00:01:49preglowmikolas: arm asm is pretty easy
00:02:03amiconnImho arm is more complex than both coldfire and sh1
00:02:04preglowcf asm is harder
00:02:12peturthat code comes from a read/modify/write to the isp1362 hardware config reg, and bit 3 means wakeup on CS :D hope this is it!!!
00:02:13lostlogicalright, I'm confused, if it's valid, how does it not set the 3rd bit of the byte above var2(a6)?
00:02:16mikolaspp has arm7 cores, right?
00:02:23preglowmikolas: yea
00:02:32mikolasok, have to dig up some literature then
00:02:41preglowamiconn: how is it more complex? i think it's really simple and easy to remember
00:02:51amiconnlostlogic: coldfire is big endian
00:03:08preglowyou need to think a bit to properly utilise the conditional instructions, but that's that
00:03:08lostlogicpreglow: arm is just too long
00:03:25amiconnpreglow: Way more instructions, 3 operands, ...
00:03:51 Quit matsl (Remote closed the connection)
00:04:15amiconnand the inverse operand order (dest, source) to all other asm dialects I know
00:04:20mikolasso it is like sparc or alpha then?
00:04:25peturI find it weird that they use bset iso OR
00:04:28preglowmore? there's just30 or something
00:04:35amiconnWell, except Z80, but that was >15 years back...
00:04:41preglowamiconn: and x86
00:05:27preglowbut arm asm is pretty simple otherwise, few exceptions to remember and such
00:05:33preglowas opposed to with coldfire
00:05:41preglowthough coldfire isn't really bad in that regard
00:05:50mikolaswhat is this stuff about pp having 2 cores?
00:05:55lostlogicmikolas: they do
00:05:56preglowwell, just that
00:05:58preglowit's got two cores
00:06:00mikolasare they both really utilized?
00:06:03preglownot yet
00:06:07preglowwe just sleep the second one
00:06:14lostlogicwe assume that stock firmware uses the 2nd :)
00:06:29bluebrotherRedBreva: nice work anyway.
00:06:42amiconnSlasheri: Did you speed up tagcache updates somehow?
00:06:58*amiconn got that impression during a full rebuild on archos
00:07:11bluebrotherI thought about converting the title image from png to jpg. Saves about 500kiB.
00:07:26 Join piroko [0] (
00:07:40 Quit powr-toc (Remote closed the connection)
00:07:40RedBrevaA not insignificant saving!!
00:07:58amiconnjpg for line art? urgh
00:08:11 Quit ender` (" If you're going to do something tonight that you'll be sorry for tomorrow morning, sleep late.")
00:08:26 Join powr-toc [0] (
00:08:47bluebrotherit's already a bitmap format and looking at it (400% magnification) doesn't show any noteable difference to me.
00:09:10midkaybluebrother, talking about the large manual logo?
00:09:15bluebrothermidkay: yes.
00:09:26midkaybluebrother, do you know how that was obtained? such a large copy?
00:10:04bluebrotherno idea. But as there are only a few svg'ed versions around I assume it originally was a bitmap format.
00:10:28midkaydo you have any links to svgs?
00:10:56bluebrotheralso afaik there is no way to use vector graphics in latex (except xfig, which can export pstricks)
00:11:04 Quit Daishi ("Client exiting...")
00:11:15 Join qwm [0] (
00:11:30bluebrotherRasher's site has two:">
00:12:23midkaybluebrother, thanks
00:12:31 Join no [0] (
00:12:48 Join Daishi [0] (
00:13:23bluebrotheranother one was posted on the users list (bw only):
00:13:33obolostlogic: should I be able to call copy_mp3entry multiple times against the same dest?
00:14:14 Quit carini (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
00:14:37RedBrevanight everyone, I need my beauty sleep...
00:14:53 Quit RedBreva ("using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.3.11")
00:15:19 Join RotAtoR [0] (n=e@rockbox/developer/rotator)
00:18:20 Nick kclafw0rk is now known as kclaf (
00:20:14lostlogicobo: ya mean overwriting one dest with new sources for each track? yes
00:20:21 Quit qwm_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:20:39obolostlogic: yup - seems to lock my 5g solid
00:20:57lostlogicobo: will investigate :(
00:21:18obolostlogic: thanks
00:23:26 Join twisted` [0] (
00:23:51lostlogicobo: care to show me code? I see nothing in what I did that would cause death :-\
00:24:20twisted`hey I have a few questions, someone here would mind answering them to me without sending me to the website and let me read through a lot of pages...?
00:24:43lostlogictwisted`: depends how obvious they are, if they are really obvious, you'll get RTFM'd, but if they aren't, people will try to help. :-D
00:24:58twisted`lostlogic: that is logical :P
00:25:20amiconnHmm, my impression wasn't correct
00:25:29bluebrotherhmm, using svg in latex seems to need a conversion before −− no svg capable output driver for pdf.
00:25:30twisted`I have an iPod Video 60gb, and I wanted to check out Rockbox, but... anyone in here having any experience with running it on that?
00:25:32obolostlogic: (the .h is also changed - struct removed)
00:25:43obolostlogic: am I doing something daft again?
00:25:44twisted`as in battery time... cause I read somewhere it drops from 20hrs to 5hrs
00:25:53*bluebrother asks himself when latex 3 will come out.
00:26:11twisted`bluebrother: I think never, LaTeX2 hasn';t been updated for a loooong while anyway
00:26:14lostlogictwisted`: not sure if it's that extreme, but yes, ipod battery life on rockbox is a lot less than on ipod firmware
00:26:57twisted`lostlogic: ok... how bout video capabilities?
00:26:58preglowbluebrother: around when hell has an ice age
00:27:02lostlogicobo: only slightly daft :-P remove the * from line 23, and add an & when you do the copy ;)
00:27:04bluebrothertwisted`: at least there people working on it. It can only be decades ... ;-)
00:27:15preglowbluebrother: or more likely, after hell has thawed up from its ice age
00:27:26obolostlogic: lol, okay, cheers
00:27:42lostlogicobo: I'm sure you see why that's necessary?
00:27:54obosince we want a real copy?
00:27:57bluebrotherIce Age 2 just appeared in the movies here short ago.
00:28:08bluebrotherI guess I'll need to go for it ;-)
00:28:12oboand not yet another pointer to something that'll disappear?
00:28:38twisted`ok... well I can reboot so that's not a real issue... k, can I use the existing music?
00:28:42lostlogicobo: more like you had a pointer to the ether before, and now you have a solid place to put your copy.
00:28:48twisted`or do I have to put it on the iPod on a different way?
00:29:17lostlogicstruct mp3entry scrobbler_entry; allocates a sizeof(struct mp3entry) area of ram, sturct mp3entry *scrobbler_entry; does no such allocation
00:29:59preglowit seems i need two additional registers :///
00:30:00peturtwisted`: you can rearrange it or use tagcache in RB
00:30:26obolostlogic: okay, thanks - makes sense
00:30:51twisted`petur: tagcache in RB?
00:31:09peturbrowse by tags
00:31:37bluebrotherok, I'm thinking about the frontpage image later. Need to go now.
00:31:43warthawgcan i just format my ipodlinux partition as a fat32 file system and use it with rockbox?
00:31:51twisted`petur: hmm, doesn't the iPod firmware keep the songs in a diff location?
00:32:00 Quit bluebrother ("Leaving")
00:32:11warthawgor should i delete that partition and grow the fat32 fs to include the space?
00:32:36peturtwisted`: Rb tagcache scans all files and puts them in a database that you can browse (artist -> album -> song)
00:33:33 Join carini [0] (
00:34:49twisted`petur: can it copy the existing iTunes db?
00:35:06twisted`that would mean... redoing 60gb music
00:35:45peturrb had its own db and keeps it up to date automatically
00:35:55 Quit jbauman (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:36:15peturto be honest, I haven't used this feature myself :)
00:40:27sharpeneither have i...
00:40:34 Join qwm_ [0] (
00:41:13lostlogicIt is somewhat problematic that there are some features that none of the devs really use
00:41:33sharpei imagine not...
00:41:47peturwhat playback?
00:42:02sharpefile browser? what file browser?
00:42:12peturwhat doom?
00:42:21sharpewhat menu?
00:42:37sharpeheadphones? ppsch.
00:42:58 Quit piroko ("telinit 0")
00:43:03sharpei'll stick to the good ol' magnet, coil of wire, and cup.
00:43:11sharpeeven though that's not a rockbox feature.
00:43:56sharpeit's kind of pointless to defrag a flash based storage device.
00:44:26 Join ashridah [0] (
00:45:17 Join XavierGr [0] (
00:45:26sharpei think i'm done with the funny now.
00:47:35 Quit ProgramZeta (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:47:55*petur adds isp1362 init code to main() and hopes the bloody chip will answer when spoken to
00:48:11sharpeif not, smack it into submission.
00:49:24lostlogicpetur: that's in the H3x0? You going to give us keyboard input on H3x0? :)
00:49:48peturif only that &^%$#$ controller would answer me
00:50:05peturi simply cannot access its registers :(
00:50:09twisted`anyone have a "screenshot" of rockbox on an iPod?
00:50:49sharpearen't there any on the wps gallery?
00:50:51 Quit qwm (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:51:02twisted`sharpe: hmm, let me try to find that
00:52:04twisted`sharpe: what's the wps gallery 'n where can I find it
00:52:39sharpethen for the video...
00:53:12twisted`I did not expect that...
00:53:43 Join maeck [0] (
00:53:52peturwe should put a link to it on the front page (in a big font) to solve these 'can I have my screenshot now' questions
00:54:17twisted`it should be on the frontpage
00:54:21twisted`cus I google image searched
00:54:24twisted`'n found these...
00:54:29twisted`crappy gameboy like shit
00:54:31lostlogicwhat do people not understand about "We don't have screenshots, because it's totally customizeable and any screen shot would give a false impression"
00:54:33twisted`'n this is just fuckin awesome
00:54:51twisted`I mean this shit almost makes me fap fap
00:54:53*twisted` gonna install it
00:55:09twisted`fuck I don't need any of the new options probably... just want... the interface
00:55:25 Quit eper ()
00:55:27peturtwisted`: do read the manual (as a teaser: it's full of screenshots)
00:55:47*twisted` faps more
00:55:51lostlogicI should read the manual one day...
00:56:06*petur looks at the isp1362 and gets a large hammer
00:56:14twisted`time to tell my pc to play music
00:56:16*twisted` fires up xmms
00:57:04 Quit Tobu (Remote closed the connection)
00:57:12 Quit gursikh (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:58:03peturI do hope this chip doesn't want that configuration done within xx ms after powerup or I'll have to mess with the bootloader :(
00:58:15twisted`how big is the risk
00:58:17twisted`I blow up my iPod
00:58:23lostlogiczero brick ratio to date
00:58:23 Quit xmixahlx ("blah blah blah")
00:58:33lostlogicbut nobody should claim zero risk :)
00:58:38peturdo backup your music
00:58:56twisted` /exec -o ls -lhR /WD200GB-2/music
00:59:03twisted` /exec -o ls -lhR /WD200GB-1/music
00:59:21twisted` -!- Tobu [] has quit [Excess Flood]
00:59:26twisted`I meant twisted
00:59:27twisted`oh well
00:59:55warthawgif i delete the linux partition from my ipod nano, and use that space for a new fat32 partition, will rockbox see it?
01:00:27peturrb only uses the primary partition iirc
01:00:35twisted`I was gonna read UNIX Network Programming Vol1
01:00:42twisted`instead I'm gonna install Rockbox
01:01:29preglowbodes better for your future sanity
01:01:35peturtwisted`: before you get disappointed, the album art stuff isn't in the main code yet....
01:02:10warthawgtwisted: part 1, introduction. When writing programs that communication across a computer network, one must first invent a protocol...
01:02:27warthawgoops, communicate, not communication
01:02:42warthawgthanks, petur
01:02:53twisted`When writing programs that communicate across a computer network, one must first invent a protocol, an agreement on how those programs will communicate. Before delving into the design details of a protocol, high-level decisions must be made about which program is expected to initiate communication and when responses are expected. For example, a Web server is typically thought of as a long-running program (or daemon) that sends network me
01:03:00*twisted` pets the CHM
01:03:13twisted`warthawg: want it?
01:03:23twisted`petur: i'll probably grab bleeding edge code
01:03:24warthawgi have a hard copy
01:03:30twisted`warthawg: CHM always handy
01:03:32peturyou do that
01:03:45twisted`petur: I like livin on the edge :)
01:03:58peturand come around daily for a new version :D
01:06:04twisted`actually I should install NetBSD for the true nerd factor...
01:06:09twisted`on my iPod that is
01:06:19sharpeyou do that.
01:06:27twisted`"What does it do?" "Nothin" "So the point is?" "There is none, it just... you know... boots..."
01:06:45*petur sees copyricht violation
01:07:02peturcopyright even
01:07:07 Join Paul_The_Nerd [0] (
01:07:17sharpekind of like the c64 emulator i'm working on for rockbox. doesn't do anything significant, but some keyboard input is possible...
01:07:18 Quit SereR0KR ("XChat Aqua")
01:07:25twisted`C codes doesn't look harmful, let's run it
01:08:11twisted`petur: copyright violation? where?
01:08:24petur'you do that' ^^
01:08:56sharpeit'd be trademark violation, wouldn't it?
01:09:14 Quit dj-fu (Connection timed out)
01:09:14sharpeyeah, you get 'you do that' i get, 'you do that.'
01:09:32 Join _Lucretia_ [0] (
01:09:33twisted`ya'll confuse me...
01:09:42twisted`what the hell do I do if I totally fucked up my iPod
01:09:49sharperestore it...
01:09:49twisted`start cryin 'n goto the Apple Center?
01:10:00peturapple has this ipod repair thingy
01:10:03muesli__get an iriver
01:10:09muesli__a real dap :p
01:10:10peturyou download from their site
01:10:13twisted`muesli__: whoa don't say scary shit there
01:10:16 Join dj-fu [0] (
01:10:28sharpeit's part of the ipod firmware updater too.
01:10:34*petur hugs his h340
01:10:35twisted` <3
01:11:03muesli__if ur in danger or in doubt run in circles scream and shout
01:12:09muesli__support piracy..thats neat
01:12:20twisted`I loved unwrapping it
01:12:27twisted`the seal said: DO NOT STEAL MUSIC
01:12:33twisted`and underneat engraved: SUPPORT PIRACY
01:12:50muesli__how did you do that? attended a tattoo maker?
01:13:01twisted`like they said: PC users watch sex on their computers, Apple users have sex with their computers
01:13:10twisted`muesli__: nope, you can do that online at their store
01:13:25sharpei've my name engraved.
01:13:44muesli__i would have written "jobs suxxx"
01:14:04twisted`pff friend of mine wanted to engrave: JOBS MEIN FUHRER
01:14:06sharpe"This Ipod Belongs To God."
01:14:31sharpebut, why all caps...
01:14:42twisted`I have a comment to make about the installation manual
01:14:49twisted`the "Enter" [code] part
01:14:52twisted`is in the same font...
01:14:55sharpeand we've got manuals to defend!
01:15:00muesli__twisted` donate him an and try committing suicide
01:15:32twisted`a what?!
01:15:55twisted`Enter dd if=/dev/sda1 of=bootpartition.bin to extract the boot partition to your hard disk. This is typically around 40MB-80MB but less than 10MB will be used. << my file is 110mb
01:16:08muesli__sharpe bingo ;)
01:16:25sharpethank you google and the "did you mean: "
01:16:47Paul_The_Nerdtwisted': 5G 60GB?
01:17:08twisted`Paul_The_Nerd: yup
01:17:39Paul_The_Nerdtwisted`: They're the exception. Their bootpartition.bin is bigger. Basically it includes space to store the contents of RAM while sleeping. Since they have twice the RAM, they need a bit more space, if I understand
01:18:20twisted`Paul_The_Nerd: sounds logical
01:18:27twisted`Paul_The_Nerd: how much RAM it uses anyway? or flash memory
01:18:33Paul_The_Nerdtwisted`: And 80+32 ~112. :)
01:18:49Paul_The_Nerdtwisted`: The 5G 60gb has 64 mb ram, I believe all other ipods have 32
01:19:10Paul_The_Nerdtwisted`: In most cases this is primarily used as an audio buffer so the HD doesn't have to spin up as often.
01:19:47twisted`ya sometimes ya can hear it spin...
01:20:38twisted`real bad comment ehre people
01:20:42twisted`I'm followin it in steps
01:20:48twisted`and underneat it says: NOTE IPOD VIDEO USERS...
01:20:53twisted`damnit, gotta start over
01:21:14Paul_The_Nerdtwisted`: Anyway, in response to the question about screwing up your ipod, you *can't* with just Rockbox really, so if you think you have the first step would be to come here so we can tell you how to fix it. :)
01:21:39Paul_The_Nerdtwisted`: Which note?
01:21:50twisted`# Write the new boot partition image back to the iPod: dd if=rockboot.bin of=/dev/sda1
01:21:51peturand don't thow it through the window ;)
01:21:53twisted`# NOTE: iPod Video users should use the option "-g 5g" and you will need a copy of the apple_sw_5g_rcsc.bin file that you extracted in step 2 in the current directory when running ipod_fw
01:21:57twisted`shouldn't it be the other way around?
01:22:00twisted`already fixed it but still
01:22:15Paul_The_Nerdtwisted`: Well, that hardly makes you start over anyway.
01:22:49***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:22:51Paul_The_Nerdtwisted`: What page are you reading?
01:22:54twisted`meh just that thing
01:23:09Paul_The_NerdOh, Linux
01:23:11twisted`it boots
01:23:20Paul_The_NerdI was like, on our main installation page it says to use -g video
01:23:45twisted`video worked too it seemed
01:23:49twisted`I did that and it gave the same message
01:23:54twisted`but I just went paranoid for a sec :)
01:25:31Paul_The_Nerdtwisted`: Anyway, page updated to be slightly more clear.
01:26:38twisted`Paul_The_Nerd: sweet
01:26:51*twisted` pets Paul_The_Nerd
01:27:07Paul_The_NerdWell, you could've fixed it too, being a Wiki 'n all.
01:27:25twisted`ah, I thought it was special users online
01:27:33twisted`the menu of rockbox suprises me
01:27:41twisted`it looks... crappy... I can fix that right :P
01:27:46twisted`tho it's low level
01:27:47Paul_The_NerdYou can change it's font.
01:27:53Paul_The_NerdAnd you can give it a backdrop image
01:28:28Paul_The_NerdThat's about the limit of what you can do to the actual menu at the moment. Nobody's really put work into making it skinnable or anything, as most of the focus is on audio features, and to a lesser extent, the customizability of the While Playing Screen
01:28:52VoltageXwell I woulda thought simple was better with non-bitmap players
01:29:00Paul_The_NerdSo, font, backdrop image, background color (if no image), and font/foreground color
01:29:52Paul_The_NerdVoltageX: Yes, and simple it shall remain on the non-bitmap players. But you can leave it simple, but allow some customization on bitmapped players still.
01:30:10VoltageXmust...resist..urge...pr0n backdrop
01:30:26twisted`VoltageX: totally gonna
01:30:26Paul_The_NerdFor example, I think it'd be kinda neat to, as a third line selector option to go along with the arrow and the inverse, is a different font, so you can basically have the selected line bigger.
01:30:42twisted`or I'm gonna go black background
01:30:44twisted`green letters
01:30:49twisted`first gotta rtfm
01:30:54twisted`to figure out HOW THE HELL IT WORKS
01:31:09VoltageXmake sure you don't set black on black accidentally
01:31:34twisted`I don't see...
01:32:01zeyeah, you don't want your controls to be labled in black on a black background with a black light that lights up black to let you know you've pressed it
01:32:14 Nick no is now known as Jaguar (
01:32:23 Nick Jaguar is now known as Jaguar77 (
01:34:22twisted`IT CAN TALK TO ME!?!?!
01:34:32Paul_The_NerdWell, it requires pre-generated voice files
01:34:47VoltageXtwisted`: if you can tell me how to make that work on the CVS build, I'll be very happy
01:35:07twisted`VoltageX: dude I just like... booted it for the first time
01:35:14Paul_The_NerdDownload one of the two CVS voice files, and put it in /.rockbox/lang
01:35:19VoltageXlol I know
01:35:34VoltageXPaul_The_Nerd: which one doesn't sound crap?
01:35:56Paul_The_NerdVoltageX: I thought you said "Make it work." There's a difference between "Making it work" and "Having voices that sound GOOD"
01:36:26VoltageXMS Mike
01:36:50Paul_The_NerdThe AT&T ones sounded really good, but there's a bit of a license question at the moment
01:37:05VoltageXtwisted`: omfgwtfbbqlolkthxbye
01:37:35VoltageXPaul_The_Nerd: put on your eyepatch and parrot and then the issue goes away ;)
01:38:23Paul_The_NerdYes, but the thing is that the license seems to say we CAN use 'em, so it'd be nice to have it sorted properly and all that jazz.
01:38:23sharpeyou don't wear a parrot...
01:38:46VoltageXsharpe: I do
01:39:07twisted`how... can I like... find my already existing music...
01:39:09twisted`or can';t it...
01:39:16twisted`they;re mp3\s...
01:39:20sharpe... i'm not talking to you anymore then.
01:39:38*VoltageX cries
01:39:42 Quit Jaguar77 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:40:04 Quit muesli__ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:40:12sharpeyeah, because it's so important i say things to people. me and my apparently, non-comical witty sarcastic comments.
01:40:15Paul_The_Nerdlostlogic: While the topic of voice is up: If I have voice enabled, it works. I then start playback, and it still works. Then I stop playback, and the voice stops reading things to me. Just a heads up.
01:40:21peturtwisted`: if you're keeping your stuff the way apple copied it, you'll need to use tagcache
01:40:41VoltageXsheesh that's about 20 hours now of processing gone into ReplayGain tags...
01:40:43peturenable it and set file view to id3
01:40:56Paul_The_Nerdtwisted`: Itunes hides your music all over the place with crazy filenames. Have our database scan it and present a nice friendly Artist/Album/Genre menu, see here for how: :-P
01:41:30*petur bows to great support chief
01:41:48 Quit mikearthur ("Konversation terminated!")
01:42:25Paul_The_NerdWinged Tortoises are flying?
01:42:37twisted`Paul_The_Nerd: man u should like do user support
01:42:41sharpethey're such crazy filenames, they senient.
01:43:03mikolaspreglow, the second core in pp appears as a coprocessor for the primary core?
01:43:22VoltageXsharpe: I haven't touched iTunes since it tried to "organise" a large mp3 collection of mine
01:43:39mikolasthat's at least what i understood from pp's product briefs
01:43:51twisted`I accidently started a game of jewels
01:43:54twisted`'n I got no fuckin idea
01:43:56twisted`howto quit it
01:43:58Paul_The_Nerdtwisted`: If you go into the forums, 1 in every 20 posts is mine. I have too much spare time, and I'm really not good enough of a programmer to contribute in that way, so support it is.
01:44:05Paul_The_Nerdtwisted`: Menu+Select
01:44:25twisted`Paul_The_Nerd: ah, well figures :)
01:44:42 Join powers [0] (
01:45:17powersis anyone here?
01:45:22twisted`hd starts to spin
01:45:41*twisted` puts it on the desk
01:45:43twisted`nice ipod
01:45:45powerscan u guys help me out with doom installation?
01:45:47twisted`don't explode
01:45:51sharpewith rockbox?
01:45:51powerson ipod
01:45:54twisted`I can like
01:46:04sharpewhat do you need help with?
01:46:35powersi've followed the instructions but the're not seem to work properly
01:46:44 Quit petur ("oh no, not doom again!")
01:46:51Paul_The_Nerdpowers: The instructions where? And what error do you get?
01:46:53sharpedo you get an error message when you try to start doom?
01:46:54powersanyone who managed to install it?
01:47:15twisted`when do I know it's done... tag-caching?
01:47:32twisted`ah 5-10min
01:47:35Paul_The_Nerdtwisted`: There's an icon in the upper right corner next to the clock that flashes to represent disk access. When it's done going crazy
01:47:49sharpepowers: what would that error be?
01:47:55powersit says No base wads found
01:48:11twisted`I need to increase that icon size
01:48:11sharpedid you put your doom wads in /games/doom ?
01:48:12Paul_The_Nerdpowers: Where *exactly* did you put rockdoom.wad, and whatever real doom wad?
01:48:13twisted`'n font size
01:48:21powersand i have copy it into my games dir
01:48:40Paul_The_Nerdtwisted`: Menu, General Settings, Display, Browse fonts by the way.
01:49:10twisted`ah don't have to like
01:49:11twisted`connect it
01:49:13Paul_The_Nerdpowers: X:\Games\Doom\rockdoom.wad and X:\Games\Doom\doom1.wad (or doom.wad, or doom2.wad or doomu.wad, or tnt.wad, or plutonia.wad?)
01:49:14twisted`I can like do it on teh roooaad
01:49:15powersi've downloaded rockdoom.wad and doom1.wad: Doom (Shareware)
01:49:32sharpei think you're right, plutonia...
01:49:43powersand they are both in the same dir
01:49:46Paul_The_Nerdsharpe: The question mark was just because the whole thing was a question. It's definitely plutonia.
01:49:57twisted`Paul_The_Nerd: what kind of fonts are they?
01:50:05Paul_The_Nerdtwisted`: BDF, I believe.
01:50:10twisted`what the...
01:50:12VoltageXtwisted`: bdf & fnt
01:50:17twisted`so I can't put my horny ass Helvetica on it
01:50:20Paul_The_Nerdpowers: "same dir" doesn't tell us anything.
01:50:20sharpeand qvc.
01:50:36sharpeand hsn.
01:50:39Paul_The_Nerdtwisted`: There's a tool to convert BDF to our format, so anything you can convert to BDF should work.
01:51:08powersi have created a dir in the root h:\games\doom
01:51:18powersand puted the two files there
01:51:30sharpeand they're in the 'doom' folder, correct?
01:51:33Paul_The_NerdSo, H:\games\doom\doom1.wad and H:\games\doom\rockdoom.wad
01:51:38twisted`Paul_The_Nerd: ah k
01:51:42twisted`found a nice font
01:51:48 Quit Kohlrabi ("Fast alle Menschen sind Regenwürmer")
01:52:11powersafter that i'm going to browse plugins and select doom
01:52:26powersthat's exactly following the instructions
01:52:38powersi don't know what the heck i'm doing wrong
01:53:07Paul_The_Nerdpowers: Double check that the files actually have the .wad extension, and that there are no typos in *any* of the file or folder names. That error means that it can't find them where they're supposed to be, so something's wrong with your path.
01:53:14 Quit BHSPitLappy (Connection timed out)
01:53:35twisted`green on black
01:53:46powerswhat if i don't create the doom directory
01:53:52Paul_The_NerdThen it won't work.
01:54:11powersyeah.. but it doesn't seems to work otherwise too
01:54:24Paul_The_NerdWell, putting them intentionally in the wrong place won't make things better.
01:54:28sharpepowers, the wads are in the doom directory, aren't they?
01:54:32Paul_The_NerdThere's something wrong with either your files, your filenames, or your folder names
01:54:50twisted`"Battery Capacity" ???
01:55:02sharpenot very important...
01:55:05Paul_The_Nerdtwisted`: Used for estimating the remaining time, so it can show you Xh, XXm in the WPS
01:55:19Paul_The_Nerdpowers: You don't know?
01:55:29sharpewell... try checking.
01:55:47Paul_The_Nerdpowers: Do you have exactly H:\games\doom\doom1.wad and H:\games\doom\rockdoom.wad
01:55:54sharpeyou like that acronym don't you twisted`?
01:56:03twisted`sharpe: pff yeha man...
01:56:05 Join gursikh [0] (
01:56:13 Join Mark_ [0] (
01:56:15twisted`Paul_The_Nerd: uh?! I can change my battery stuff?
01:56:20twisted`Paul_The_Nerd: shouldn't it like... detect it?
01:56:31sharpeit's just for estimating battery usage
01:56:38sharpehas nothing to do with the battery.
01:57:02powersgod damn
01:57:11powersit says the same crap again
01:57:17powersno base wads found
01:57:24Paul_The_Nerdpowers: What did you do different?
01:57:25*twisted` confused
01:57:30Paul_The_Nerdpowers: You've stopped answering questions.
01:57:59powerswell now i've tried everything
01:58:22Paul_The_Nerdtwisted`: Rockbox can estimate how much time is left by your battery voltage, but needs to know the mah capacity of the battery
01:58:37twisted`Paul_The_Nerd: ah, where can I find that?
01:58:39Paul_The_Nerdpowers: "everything" tells me nothing. I know you haven't tried the RIGHT thing, because it works for me and doesn't work for you.
01:59:02Paul_The_Nerdtwisted`: You've got an iPod, so don't worry about it right now. We don't have good estimation in place yet for it, so it doesn't matter if you have the right value
01:59:13twisted`man 10min... still not done tag-caching...
01:59:27VoltageXtwisted`: how many tracks do you have?
02:00:08 Quit Mark_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
02:00:11Paul_The_Nerdpowers: Not only does it work for me, but I've talked countless people through getting it working, and I can talk you through it if you'll just answer some question so we can check things, instead of simply complaining, and stating that you've tried everything.
02:00:38 Join BHSPitLappy [0] (
02:00:49powersok paul.. i'm sorry
02:01:01powersright lets take it from the beggining
02:01:12twisted`omg... pong crashed
02:01:13Paul_The_Nerdpowers: So, the first thing I want you to do is browse to where you've got the doom1.wad, so that you can see it in explorer
02:01:33Paul_The_Nerdpowers: Then, copy the contents of the bar at the top of the screen, that shows the full path, here so we can see where it is.
02:01:34 Quit pussfeller (Remote closed the connection)
02:01:37 Join piroko [0] (
02:01:55*midkay adds that you may need to right-click the toolbars and check "Address Bar"
02:02:08midkaynot on by default in XP, i'm quite sure..
02:02:09Paul_The_Nerdmidkay: It's on by default in windows though, right?
02:02:15 Quit piroko (Client Quit)
02:02:24Paul_The_Nerdmidkay: Hm. I know I didn't enable mine, but it's there.
02:02:25midkayi had to enable it myself recently, and never touched it before, so i think it's off by default.
02:02:32midkayhm hm hm :)
02:03:14twisted`I can't exit spacerock
02:03:14Moosbye all !
02:03:24 Quit Moos ("Glory to Rockbox !!!")
02:03:47midkayit's rather weird, try select+menu, menu+select over and over a few times..
02:03:47Paul_The_Nerdtwisted`: Most exits are Menu, Select, Menu+Select, or hold one of those two for ~3-4 seconds
02:03:49VoltageXwe've created RockBox fanbois!
02:03:50*twisted` throws out iPod
02:04:08powersit's going to sound really odd, but i can't browse the wads on my ipod, i can see the files..
02:04:13twisted`won't menu+select
02:04:15twisted`reboot my ipod
02:04:24 Join Jaguar77 [0] (
02:04:25midkaynot if you don't hold it for 4-5s.
02:04:44twisted`Ipod went out
02:04:49twisted`oh well
02:04:52twisted`out of the game anyway
02:04:53twisted`bad game
02:04:55*twisted` smacks it
02:04:58powersis there anyway that rockbox can destroy ipod?
02:05:00midkaygr8 game!
02:05:11Paul_The_Nerdpowers: No.
02:05:20midkaypowers, on occasion we've had reports of spontaneous combustion, but it seems rather rare.
02:05:27midkayno. no. no. i'm kidding. sorry. please don't leave. :(
02:05:27twisted`gitta rerun force tag update
02:05:47Paul_The_Nerdtwisted`: Well, Menu+Select exited it for me.
02:05:49powersanyway... i still can't get doom working
02:05:53twisted`sudden combustion of my ipod
02:05:57twisted`people would sooo die
02:06:06Paul_The_Nerdpowers: You still didn't copy the contents of your address bar here for us, like I asked.
02:06:07powersas i said i tried to browse to my games\doom dir
02:06:13powersand thew files are not there
02:06:18twisted`I like the green...
02:06:21midkayis "show files" "all"?
02:06:22Paul_The_NerdThen you probably need to put them there
02:06:25sharpetry putting the files there.
02:06:33powersyes i've allready done that
02:06:45powersi can see them on windows
02:06:45midkayyou're such a nut.
02:06:46twisted`during force cache update bla... can I browse stuff already?
02:06:47Paul_The_Nerdpowers: And I meant browse there in windows, so you can copy the contents of the address bar to us.
02:07:03midkaytwisted`, you kinda need to reboot to get it fully working, but you may be able to..
02:07:18powersi can browse the files in windows but not in rockbox browser
02:07:35twisted`sooo basicly... when I let it run...
02:07:40Paul_The_Nerdpowers: They won't be visible in Rockbox unless you have it set to show all files.
02:07:41twisted`I got 'n whack off for 45min
02:07:46twisted`'n when I come back.. it should be done
02:07:57powersh:\games\doom\rockdoom.wad h:\games\doom\doom1.wad
02:08:25powersthat's what i've done
02:08:38Paul_The_Nerdpowers: Now see, that's not a paste of the contents of your address bar, that's you typing it here, which isn't what I asked for.
02:08:56Paul_The_Nerdpowers: Sometimes people overlook their own typos, which is what it still seems likely the problem is somewhere.
02:09:26Paul_The_Nerdpowers: Actually, just to be safe, also, how old is your version of rockbox?
02:09:56powersi've download it yesterday
02:10:06Paul_The_NerdNow, about copying and pasting that address bar?
02:10:15 Quit mikolas ("Leaving")
02:10:53sharpewhat's the 3. for?
02:10:57Paul_The_NerdSo, that 3. doesn't clue you off that something's wrong?
02:11:09Paul_The_NerdSeeing as the instructions say pretty clearly \Games\Doom without a 3...
02:11:17 Join jbauman [0] (
02:11:29powersi've categorised my contents
02:11:39Paul_The_NerdMaybe you have
02:11:41sharpetry removing the 3. ...
02:11:47Paul_The_NerdBut the instructions say "put it in \games\doom\
02:11:49ashridah"hi, i moved all of my .exe files into a directory called C:/exe/ and now my pc won't boot"
02:11:56Paul_The_NerdAnd you told us it was in H:\games\doom\
02:11:58Paul_The_NerdWhich was a LIE
02:12:05sharpepaul doesn't like liars.
02:12:09Paul_The_NerdI really don't
02:12:19zethat was awesome
02:12:25ze"i've catagorized my contents"
02:12:58Paul_The_NerdIt's quite frustrating when someone tells you they followed the instructions exactly and it doesn't work, and then it turns out they changed the instructions and think that they haven't done anything wrong.
02:13:29zedoesn't everything magically know that you put stuff somewhere other than where it expects it?!!!
02:14:33twisted`my ipod is runnin hot
02:14:38*twisted` has the feeling it will like
02:14:40twisted`go up in flames
02:14:46sharpetry cooling it :D
02:14:53sharpeor, take it off the grill...
02:14:59sharpeor, out of the microwave...
02:15:11sharpeor, more likely the oven.
02:15:13sharpeor fire
02:15:21sharpeor, ya know, anything that's warm.
02:15:22ashridahput it in your PANTS!
02:15:37powersyou were right paul
02:15:45sharpeof course, because that's the same effect as a block of ice.
02:15:51Paul_The_NerdNo, the instructions were right.
02:15:55powerssorry for beeing an asshole
02:16:05 Quit dj-fu ("Leaving")
02:16:15Paul_The_NerdIt's generally a good idea to follow them literally to make sure things work, before you experiment
02:16:15*twisted` goes 'n reads bash
02:16:24powersthanx again yay!
02:16:31powersit runs smoothly now
02:16:35powerssee ya
02:17:32 Quit powers ()
02:17:38*Paul_The_Nerd beats his head on the desk.
02:18:30*twisted` gives Paul_The_Nerd a cookie
02:19:04twisted`how long it actually take for it to cache-tag 60gb
02:19:09twisted`well 50gb music
02:19:11Paul_The_NerdDepends on a lot of random things
02:19:12VoltageXok, so we have Rockbox fanbois and noobs too
02:19:27sharpesuch as, position of the celestial bodies.
02:19:34Paul_The_Nerdtwisted`: Sometimes you can check TagCache status in the Debug menu under the Info menu to see how much it's done, but that doesn't always work
02:20:07twisted`100% it says
02:20:18Paul_The_NerdYeah, but the disk is still spinning?
02:20:52twisted`like a mother fucker on crack
02:21:08sharpeso, like, a crack father?
02:21:15Paul_The_NerdWell, dunno then. I've only had the percentage be reliable on my H120. I've heard of people seeing several thousand percent on an iPod before
02:21:21twisted`or just some perverted crackhead
02:21:29sharpeyeah, i've had a few thousand percent...
02:21:54twisted`I still don't get it
02:21:58twisted`bash < site for nerds
02:22:03twisted`slashdot < ultimate nerd site
02:22:11twisted`sourceforge/freshmeat < nerd site
02:22:26twisted`I mean, WHY!
02:22:31twisted`ashridah: u know any person
02:22:40twisted`ashridah: that isn't using computers as a geek
02:22:41zei remember way back in the day
02:22:44twisted`ashridah: that reads slashdot
02:22:45ashridahslashdot is about as ultimate as my computer
02:22:48maeckhey guys. I am trying to understand this patching stuff. Need some help...
02:22:48zewhen freshmeat had a black background
02:23:02*twisted` hands ze a napkin
02:23:03maeckI have two CVS-es
02:23:04zeand like an orange foreground or something
02:23:09ashridahtwisted`: more to the point, i know plenty of 'geeks' who DON'T read it.
02:23:14Paul_The_NerdSlashdot is much more of a "Getting started as a nerd" site than anything. It's quite shallow.
02:23:22twisted`but good reading
02:23:28*twisted` needs to read shit
02:23:32twisted`else I go crazy
02:23:36maeckone with the patch, one as on the cvs server
02:23:47 Join leftright [0] (
02:23:50maeckI do a diff -pudr −−strip
02:24:04bluefoxicyhow hard would it be to get an xmms SPC input plug-in to work with rockbox?
02:24:25maeckthen patch < difffile
02:24:37zetwisted`: only get a few tidbits weekly or so, but there's a nice large archive of madness
02:24:48twisted`man I ain't no fuckin physicist
02:24:50twisted`tho I love that album
02:25:00 Join punkrockguy318 [0] (
02:25:03VoltageXgah the aussie SF mirror is still down
02:25:11leftrightLostlogic, using latest bleedingedge, I get dead quite patches during playback, H140 with LAME mp3@aps
02:25:15zephysics 0wns you though
02:25:21twisted`ze: probably do
02:25:30twisted`ze: ever heard it? Devin Townsend - Physicist?
02:25:35zehmm nope
02:25:41twisted`like metal?
02:25:51twisted`else it'sa huge no-no
02:25:51VoltageXze: yes, gravity seems to want to pull me towards the ground often
02:25:56Paul_The_Nerdleftright: Is there anything at all abnormal about your build, because I'm having no problems with it.
02:26:22twisted`<cornbeef> 8? i didnt even know what a vagina was at 8
02:26:22twisted`<Scofco> I didn't learn to masturbate until I was 17... up until then I always thought 'masturbation' was a type of pasta dish they served in fancy restaurants
02:26:40leftrightI'm using normal build from here, I dont compile my own
02:27:03leftrightI use replaygain and eq
02:27:27twisted`and... I just ran out of noodles..
02:27:36leftrightthe playback bar hsow progress but the music isn't there
02:27:44twisted`ipod still not done... and it';s only been busy for 30min
02:28:07 Quit sneakums ("taster, you're the automatic saint")
02:28:21Paul_The_Nerdleftright: Does the PCM buffer bottom out when it happens?
02:28:47leftrightthere is no HD activity, if thats what you mean
02:28:51twisted`tho if I goto playlist now instead of "Insert" I see nothin
02:28:54twisted`just... blackness
02:28:54sharpemy latest build of doom does not seem to like me.
02:29:05Paul_The_Nerdleftright: No, I mean "Watching the Audio Thread in the debug menu, does the PCM buffer ever hit empty"
02:29:28maeckpaul_the_nerd, sharpe: how do I use 'patch'?
02:29:44leftrighthaven't done that I'll look next time it does that, this is random but frequent
02:29:45Paul_The_Nerdmaeck: You've set up the ability to compile?
02:29:48ashridahmaeck: are you applying, or creating, a patch?
02:30:01twisted`man this is takin long time...
02:30:05maeckyeah, I have everything... my plugin and two cvs directories
02:30:05Paul_The_Nerdleftright: Well, it'll be important to know if it's just the CPU can't keep up with replaygain and EQ, or if it's something else
02:30:09twisted`can;t I like... make my pc do the work... it's way faster...
02:30:10maeckdid a diff
02:30:18sharpeare you applying?
02:30:37maeckdiff -pudr −−strip clean-cvs patched-cvs
02:30:51maecknow I have a patch file and want to apply.
02:31:02leftrightpaul I'll try and get that info, its in the debug menu you say ?
02:31:03 Quit obo (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:31:09 Nick ashridah is now known as Lost-ash (
02:31:13maeckbut it asks for filenames when I do a: patch < foo.diff
02:31:23sharpepatch -p0 < foo.diff
02:31:25sharpetry that...
02:32:21maeckno, asks for the filename
02:32:28maeckI created foo.diff with this:
02:32:29maeckdiff -pudr −−strip rockbox-devel rockbox-devel-new > foo.diff
02:32:50maeckstripped all the new files from the foo.diff
02:32:59 Quit cismo (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
02:33:53maeckoh, I think it worked...
02:34:01leftrightPaul_the_Nerd, the strange thing is that if i skip forward a track or two and come back to the same track, it'll then play that quite patch normally
02:35:08*twisted` just spaced out on plasma
02:35:12twisted`beside all the...
02:35:19twisted`rockbox kept me busy
02:35:51sharpebadger song adaptation for rockbox.
02:36:00sharpewould be interesting...
02:36:01Paul_The_Nerdleftright: Odd. It could definitely be a matter of the CPU not keeping up then, because it could be other things affecting performance. But yeah, Info-Debug-View Audio Thread I believe
02:36:34sharpebadger -> build, mushroom -> update, snake -> data abort
02:36:36twisted`can I cancel like
02:36:37 Part warthawg ("You never miss your warthawg til the well runs dry")
02:36:42twisted`the tag cache thing?
02:36:45twisted`and use it half?
02:36:52 Join cismo [0] (
02:36:53leftrightpaul, the progress bar moves and the timer counts, but no music
02:36:55twisted`cus I have a *slight* feeling it's not really doin shit
02:37:11sharpeit's just fucking with you twisted. it's actually finished.
02:37:23Paul_The_Nerdtwisted`: Well, seeing as you interrupted it partway the first time, I'm not sure how it handles broken/incomplete tagcache anyway.
02:37:33Paul_The_Nerdleftright: For how long is there no music?
02:37:52leftrightabout 30 to 90 seconds
02:38:49Paul_The_Nerdleftright: Oh, that's definitely not what I thought it was then. That's quite strange. I'm having no problems with a CVS build from a short time ago.
02:39:17 Quit herz42_ ("Und wech")
02:39:22twisted`Paul_The_Nerd: I didn't interrupt it... spacerock just... went crazy
02:39:23leftrightand it doesn't listen to stop commands, but forward and back skips is OK
02:39:39Paul_The_Nerdtwisted`: You reset your player holding menu+select, right?
02:39:52twisted`Paul_The_Nerd: well yeah... cus u said it would quit the game...
02:39:58leftrightyes, done that
02:40:02Paul_The_Nerdtwisted`: I didn't say "Hold menu+select"
02:40:09Paul_The_Nerdtwisted`: I said "or try holding one of the buttons"
02:40:21twisted`THE ICON
02:40:22Paul_The_Nerdtwisted`: And, menu+select DOES exit the game. I tried it myself.
02:40:22twisted`IT WENT AWAY
02:40:24DBUGEnqueued KICK twisted`
02:40:26leftrightpaul is your music replaygained ?
02:40:29Paul_The_Nerdleftright: Yup
02:40:38Paul_The_Nerdleftright: Don't use the EQ though.
02:40:38twisted`back to the manual I guess
02:40:49sharpeso, you like 'wtf' and "'n" too
02:41:29leftrightpaul, well if it persists on doing it, I might have to post my player to a dev, it really is peculiar
02:42:17Paul_The_Nerdleftright: Well, I've just enabled my EQ, so we'll see if mine does it.
02:42:34Paul_The_Nerdleftright: Most of my MP3s aren't LAME aps, but that alone really shouldn't make the difference.
02:43:03leftrightlet it play for a while, no skipping or suchlikes
02:43:23Paul_The_Nerdleftright: Will do.
02:43:26twisted`Paul_The_Nerd: at boot it says: COmmitting Tag cache [1/10]
02:43:28Paul_The_Nerdleftright: What sort of player do you have again?
02:43:41Paul_The_Nerdtwisted`: Yep. Now that it's scanned, it has to actually load it. Don't worry, that won't happen every boot.
02:43:42twisted`it's like... as if it's doin crime
02:43:57twisted`bad ipod u better not get me arrested
02:44:00Paul_The_Nerdleftright: Okay, I'm testing on an H120, it's good I picked the right one.
02:44:22twisted`"Commiting gathered data of illegal aquired music to the authorities through inbuild gsm modem"
02:44:30CtcpIgnored 2 channel CTCP requests in 7 seconds at the last flood
02:44:30*twisted` smacks ipod
02:44:35leftrightPaul, I have two players and they both do the same thing during playback
02:44:44leftrightboth H140's
02:44:54Paul_The_Nerdleftright: How long has this been happening?
02:45:28leftrightlast few days
02:45:49leftright can't remember when exactly
02:45:49sharpedo you want a completely unhelpful comment(TM) ?
02:46:20twisted`now I gotta figure out howto actually PLAY something
02:47:10Paul_The_Nerdtwisted`: Hold Menu, then when the quickscreen pops up, hit Play/Pause until the bottom says "ID3 tags"
02:47:12Paul_The_NerdThen hit menu again
02:48:01twisted`Paul_The_Nerd: and then... go where?
02:48:14Paul_The_Nerdtwisted`: Well, at that point you should have choices like "Artist" "Album" etc.
02:48:20Paul_The_NerdSo, inside those should be your music.
02:48:22leftrightI gotta go, thanks, i'll catch you tomorrow, be interesting to see if you can duplicate the problem
02:48:51twisted`Paul_The_Nerd: where? when I press Menu I see: Recent Bookmarks, Sound Settings, etc
02:49:00Paul_The_Nerdtwisted`: I said "Hold men"
02:49:03Paul_The_Nerdtwisted`: menu
02:49:07 Part leftright
02:49:12twisted`ya that worked
02:49:14Paul_The_Nerdtwisted`: In the file browser, you need to hold menu and you'll get a different menu.
02:49:17twisted`but then after that I pressed menu
02:49:59Paul_The_Nerdtwisted`: From inside the Quick Menu, tapping menu should've brought you back to the file browser...
02:50:23twisted`nope I see on the top: iAmp, and then Now Playing: NO FILE!
02:50:28 Join biffhero [0] (n=rob@
02:50:55sharpethis is kind of funny, printing the "Keyboard: A" line, takes up so much more time in the emulator...
02:50:56Paul_The_Nerdtwisted`: Wait, where did you hit Play at?
02:51:07twisted`I got no fuckin idea anymore
02:51:07Paul_The_Nerdtwisted`: Were you in the QuickMenu or the Normal Menu?
02:51:09twisted`let's reboot it
02:51:15Paul_The_Nerdtwisted`: Why reboot it? WTF?
02:51:21twisted`cus it's actin strange :P
02:51:35Paul_The_Nerdtwisted`: It's acting strange because you aren't following my instructions exactly
02:51:44Paul_The_Nerdtwisted`: Just get back to the "file browser" screen
02:52:09*twisted` scratches head...
02:52:32Paul_The_Nerdtwisted`: Okay, what does your current screen say as the top line?
02:52:43twisted`Recent Bookmarks
02:52:49Paul_The_Nerdtap menu
02:52:56Paul_The_NerdTop line?
02:52:57*twisted` tapped menu
02:53:01twisted`No File!
02:53:28Paul_The_NerdWait, you see the WPS?
02:53:36twisted`Paul_The_Nerd: yup
02:53:39Paul_The_NerdHold Play/Pause for about 1-2 seconds.
02:53:57Paul_The_NerdNow, Artist/Album/Genre/Etc, or something else?
02:53:59twisted`now I see artists
02:54:13twisted`looks good
02:54:14Paul_The_NerdBrowse to the music you want, and hit Right or Select on a song to play it, etc.
02:55:40twisted`it doesn't seem to do shit
02:55:46Paul_The_NerdWhat do you mean?
02:56:01twisted`it... stopped responding
02:56:04*twisted` made his ipod crash
02:56:22Paul_The_NerdProbably managed to get the tagcache to be malformed because of you forcibly restarting mid-cache or something.
02:56:40*twisted` mashes all buttons like his NES controller
02:56:42twisted`no reply
02:56:43twisted`at all
02:56:45twisted`time for a reboot
02:56:54biffheroare we supposed to reboot after the tagcache rebuild?
02:57:25twisted`THAT MUSIC
02:57:26twisted`IS LOUD
02:57:31twisted`4x harder then original
02:57:35*twisted` almost went deaf
02:57:40twisted`fuckin heart attack and shit
02:58:00twisted`-20 is loud nuff
02:58:16biffherowhat headphones?
02:58:47twisted`standard ipod
03:00:00Paul_The_Nerdbiffhero: After the tagchache build, shut down properly and reboot yet.
03:00:30Paul_The_Nerdyes even, not yet
03:01:38biffherois "shut down properly" "hold select + menu until reboot", or is there a men item for it?
03:02:11Paul_The_NerdIt's "Hold Play/Pause like it says in the manual"
03:02:21biffherok, thx
03:02:22*twisted` gonna try to put on a new WPS which is actually... pretty
03:02:47maeckahh, finally submitted my patch.
03:03:28punkrockguy318twisted`: i've yet to find one for the ipod 5g
03:03:33 Part XavierGr
03:03:41biffheroI have one, let me find it and 'splain it to you.
03:03:44twisted`punkrockguy318: how ya mean?
03:04:26punkrockguy318twisted`: most of the ones i've used have like text misplaced... or the fonts are unreadable with the background
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03:05:25biffherobrowse themes -> joshPod (for the 5G iPod)
03:07:27biffherothe tagcache is nice, but a bit cubersome with 5G ipod with 2k songs on it. Every day I update my podcasts, and then have to rescan for the tagcache. that takes a while. The only solution I have come up with is to have the tagcache db read the ipoddb, but that's such a small segment of rockbox' target market...
03:08:33twisted`biffhero: joshpod
03:08:34twisted`biffhero: so
03:08:37twisted`the others don't work?
03:08:46 Quit powr-toc ("Leaving")
03:08:48biffherothey work, but they don't look as good, nor work as well.
03:09:05twisted`biffhero: those u mean?
03:09:13biffheroname another, I will go to it, and tell you why I don't use it.
03:09:22Paul_The_Nerdbiffhero: The tagcache automatically updates with new files if you're using it in Memory, and have dircache enabled...
03:09:34biffheroPaul_The_Nerd: well, that's cool!
03:09:45Paul_The_Nerdbiffhero: So you shouldn't have to do a full rescan.
03:09:50twisted`how the hell do I change the WPS
03:09:50biffherodoes it go out and scan on its' own accord, then?
03:10:00biffherotwisted`: I use 'browse themes'
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03:10:29Paul_The_Nerdbiffhero: Dircache scans, and tells TagCache when the files on disk have changed, I believe. You'll have it do the Commit part again when you turn on, I believe.
03:10:38twisted`hmm the new one...
03:10:40twisted`ain't there
03:11:22biffheroPaul_The_Nerd: but to put new ones on there, I have to reboot rockbox anyway...
03:11:34twisted`omg on so many aspects rockbox sooo fuckin pwns the original firmware
03:11:47Paul_The_Nerdbiffhero: Yes. You do. I don't understand quite the point of your statement there.
03:12:02biffheroyeah, neither do I. :-)
03:12:36twisted`I see where it went wrong
03:12:39*twisted` fuckin stupid
03:12:43 Join ProgramZeta [0] (
03:12:45biffherotwisted`: I don't know why I don't have 'brushed metal' on mine, but I don't.
03:14:05twisted`biffhero: lol :D
03:14:12twisted`I officially, love rockbox
03:16:12twisted`the hell
03:16:16twisted`I just loaded Dark Geek
03:16:19twisted`but it mixed with the other one
03:16:44Paul_The_NerdDark Geek probably doesn't set a background image
03:16:51Paul_The_NerdTry turning your player off, then on again.
03:17:58twisted`I like it
03:18:02twisted`that it remembers
03:18:04twisted`the last song
03:18:07twisted`and continues where it left
03:18:37twisted`dark geek... doesn't work
03:18:44Paul_The_NerdWhat does it do?
03:18:56twisted`it doesn't do shit!
03:18:58twisted`that's the problem
03:19:02twisted`it shows the previous one
03:19:05twisted`just borked up
03:19:28Paul_The_Nerdtwisted`: Did you try shutting down and restarting like I suggested, and it still shows the backdrop from the previous one?
03:19:54twisted`Paul_The_Nerd: let's retry, second reboot
03:19:57twisted`Paul_The_Nerd: I did yeah
03:20:32GaloisI get that backdrop behavior too
03:20:53twisted`not backdrop
03:20:56Paul_The_Nerdtwisted`: General Settings -> Display -> LCD settings -> Clear Backdrop then
03:20:58twisted`prev. one was Rockbox default
03:21:09 Quit fareed ()
03:21:10twisted`I see Rockbox default
03:21:16twisted`doesn't matter which I pick
03:21:19twisted`dark-geek won't go
03:21:25twisted`I wanted that one :(
03:21:47Paul_The_Nerdtwisted`: And you're sure the .wps is where it belongs in the wps folder?
03:21:59Paul_The_Nerdtwisted`: Can you get to it by way of Browse WPSes instead of Browse Themes?
03:22:09twisted`ROOT@debian:/mnt/ipod/.rockbox# unzip /home/twisted/rockbox/ [0 | Apr 18 | 3:15AM]
03:22:12twisted`Archive: /home/twisted/rockbox/ inflating: themes/dark-geek.cfg inflating: wps/dark-geek.wps
03:22:53***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
03:23:35Paul_The_Nerdtwisted`: The .cfg is wrong
03:23:43Paul_The_Nerdtwisted`: Open it up, it points to a different .wps file than what it should
03:23:52twisted`bad dark-geek
03:24:33 Join piroko [0] (
03:24:44Paul_The_NerdIf you just use Browse WPS you can get to the WPS file directly, or you can easily correct the .cfg
03:24:48twisted`let's smack the dev
03:24:51pirokopreglow: you ever make your own sid tunes?
03:25:13twisted`IT WORKS
03:25:17twisted`it's purdy
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03:25:55 Nick Lost-ash is now known as ashridah (
03:27:13twisted`I cleared the backdrop
03:27:21twisted`but when I go back from WPS to the menu
03:27:26twisted`the backdrop appears again
03:27:29twisted`but in WPS it's gone
03:28:14twisted`and then it's... back in the WPS again
03:29:04twisted`I put it in dockin station for... like chargin
03:29:06twisted`;n it reboots
03:29:17Galoistwisted`: I get the same backdrop behavior. It's a bug.
03:29:23twisted`keeps rebooting
03:30:08GaloisI have no charging station, so I can't say much about that one
03:30:13Paul_The_Nerdtwisted`: Because it's trying to USB connect. Either boot Retail or Disk Mode for charging, or be already IN Rockbox and hold menu while you put it in the dock (sometimes charging isn't so reliable inside rockbox, as RB takes more juice than the normal firmware so far)
03:30:39Paul_The_Nerdtwisted`: One way to be sure the backdrop is reset is to turn the hold switch on immediately after powering on the unit, so that all settings are cleared.
03:30:47twisted`original firmware
03:30:50twisted`looks really shabby
03:30:58twisted`it's probably my imagination tho
03:31:25linuxstbmaeck: I've just tried your gfxmenu plugin. It's fun, but I wouldn't like Rockbox to look like that... I also don't know how you would design icons for all of Rockbox's menu items.
03:33:25midkayooh. *tries*
03:33:42twisted`battery is almost empty
03:33:44twisted`gotta charge it
03:33:57pirokogrr... 5g only...
03:33:58sharpehey, i tried that plugin... :D
03:34:36twisted`<3 screens
03:34:42sharpewhen it was a proof of concept too... :)
03:34:44sharpeyay me
03:35:02maeckthe icons are just something I grabbed from Gnome
03:35:11maeckNo icons drawn...
03:35:36maeckdrawing the icons will really be hard, I agree
03:35:42twisted`for what?
03:35:51maeckgraphical menu
03:35:58twisted`but got a screenshot
03:35:59twisted`so I can...
03:36:12sharpeone second...
03:36:15twisted`cus ya mean icons for... everything?
03:36:17sharpeor moment.
03:36:20maeckteh icons are supported by the textual description though...
03:36:51maeckI guess it will be something that you can switch on/off... and am in desparate need of someone who can design icons
03:37:02sharpemaeck, have you changed it since i tried it?
03:37:04maeckeverything, except files
03:37:06twisted`depends on how spiffy u want 'em
03:37:23maecka little. Spent more time hacking it into the menu. Not done yet.
03:37:27twisted`is horny
03:37:35twisted`tho in my imagination
03:37:38*piroko died
03:37:39twisted`it was waay doper
03:37:40sharpeooh, fun
03:37:41maeck−−spiffy is a start
03:37:43twisted`but I'm on crack I think
03:37:49*Paul_The_Nerd prefers text.
03:37:56sharpei get a , 'give that guy a beer' for my c64 emulator...
03:38:08sharpewhich, in most countries is illegal to for the next few years.
03:38:09*piroko looks around for a 5g to steal! watch out!
03:38:25VoltageXPaul_The_Nerd: I agree, but it'd be nice as an option
03:38:28twisted`piroko: come near mine 'n u would beg to be in prison in pakistan
03:38:29VoltageXpurrrty colours
03:38:34pirokosharpe: what c64 emulator?
03:38:38Paul_The_NerdVoltageX: Yes, but would you make ALL submenus graphical, or what?
03:38:42midkaymaeck, just tried it - coool :)
03:38:51sharpethe c64 emulator i'm working on...
03:38:56VoltageXPaul_The_Nerd: depends how many megabytes you want to waste
03:38:59midkaynice work, are you planning more?
03:39:05punkrockguy318has anyone started work on an NES emulator?
03:39:08maeckThe menu is cool. The scroll wheel just begged for something like this... just thing of the icons...
03:39:20VoltageXsharpe: does that mean we can write c64 basic for rockbox?
03:39:21punkrockguy318or porting one, rather
03:39:23maeckIf one could think what the icons should look like...
03:39:47twisted`maeck: pm
03:40:18sharpeVoltageX: i suppose...
03:40:20maeckI think the icons for the main menu, and the tagDB main menu will be a start
03:40:29twisted`maeck: you received pm?
03:40:32maeckwho can DRAW icons. Even if they are not too cool
03:40:40sharpei can draw little squares
03:40:41midkaymaeck, if you need any help, i'm not bad with graphics..
03:40:43maeckyeah, what do you men. PM
03:40:50midkayat least i like to think i'm not :)
03:40:52twisted`maeck: private message
03:40:54twisted`maeck: query
03:41:01*twisted` out of words to describe it
03:41:32twisted`I could help doin the gfx...
03:41:36twisted`that's no problem
03:41:41maeckneed icons that are 48x48
03:41:55twisted`ya but I got like this total imagination of how it will look
03:41:58twisted`but I already pm'd that
03:41:58pirokoapple icons would be sweet...
03:42:01twisted`so I should copy it
03:42:12pirokobut probably illegal...
03:42:21twisted`03:38:47 <twisted`> what kind of icons we talkin about?
03:42:21twisted`03:38:56 <twisted`> I imaged before I saw the screenie this black wallpaper
03:42:21twisted`03:38:59 <twisted`> with a circle
03:42:21twisted`03:39:06 <twisted`> with icons attached "on" it
03:42:21twisted`03:39:16 <twisted`> 'n blue bubbles floatin round the icon
03:42:23twisted`03:39:37 <twisted`> 'n they float from the active icon to the next active one when you slide
03:42:32maeckso twisted are able to compile? I can mail you an Ipod binary
03:42:46twisted`maeck: first I gotta recharge my ipod
03:42:50twisted`maeck: but yup
03:42:56twisted`maeck: if it's workin from linux yup
03:43:31maecklook through the patch for the images. Just draw them on 48x48 scale. I can do the resizing and putting the transparant background in
03:44:04maeckyeah, it works in the emulator aswell. However, my keyboard does not come with a scroll wheel for the full experience.
03:44:45twisted`man I got no idea whatcha talkin bout... but I think you want me to get drawing
03:45:10twisted`actually I was thinkin bout callin it a night
03:45:12pirokoso as of now, does the simulator only run on linux?
03:45:13twisted`Tue Apr 18 03:45:14 CEST 2006
03:45:14maeckdo the main menu first
03:45:34twisted`maeck: I'll do some sketches tomorrow
03:45:37twisted`imagine some more
03:45:39twisted`smoke more pot
03:45:42twisted`get more ideas
03:45:44twisted`draw 'em out
03:45:52twisted`make you cry as a programmer, scream: WHY! WHY!
03:45:59twisted`I always make programmers cry... dunno...
03:46:03maeckput the results in the tracker
03:46:23maeckwith the patch
03:46:49twisted`maeck: send me a mail on so I know where to send stuff I did on it...
03:47:35maeckor just attach to the tracker:
03:48:50*twisted` still waits...
03:49:42twisted`still no confirm email
03:50:26maeckone sec
03:52:31lostlogicPaul_The_Nerd: what was teh verdict on leftright?
03:52:45Paul_The_Nerdlostlogic: I cannot reproduce.
03:52:55twisted`signed up
03:52:57twisted`got the mail
03:53:00twisted`will do tomorrow
03:53:03twisted`maeck: u'll hear from me
03:53:06sharpetis the latest screenshot of it i just made...
03:53:08Paul_The_Nerdlostlogic: At all. Since it happens on both his H140s, I'm extremely tempted to suggest that he tries with different earphones.
03:54:36sharpeany comments?
03:54:50lostlogicPaul_The_Nerd: h140, that wouldn't be CPU can't keep up... wonder if it's CPU too fast... any problems for you with FLAC?
03:55:21lostlogicsharpe: hawt
03:55:28maecksharpe, how did you do the menu?
03:55:38sharpewhat menu?
03:55:46Paul_The_Nerdlostlogic: I'm using MP3 on an H120 right now, been playing since before he left the channel, no problems at all. EQ+Replaygain
03:56:13sharpeoh, the keyboard input?
03:56:26sharpefrom when i was trying ideas for it?
03:56:34lostlogicPaul_The_Nerd: thanks as always for being my hero ;)
03:56:44 Quit Paul_The_Nerd (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
03:56:47maecknot menu, keyboard
03:57:05sharpejust scroll through the glyphs
03:57:20 Join Paul_The_Nerd [0] (
03:57:27lostlogic20:56 < lostlogic> Paul_The_Nerd: thanks as always for being my hero ;)
03:57:35sharpefigured that was the easiest way...
03:57:39Paul_The_NerdI saw that RIGHT before I died.
03:57:48 Join sean [0] (
03:58:01Paul_The_Nerdlostlogic: Well, the better verified or reproduceable bugs are, the easier it is for you to make my player work better. ;-)
03:58:19seanquestion regarding battery life and rockbox on an ipod
03:58:23lostlogicPaul_The_Nerd: you are correct. :)
03:58:28lostlogicsean: it sucks. next?
03:58:29sharpeit's less than the firmwares :D
03:58:33seani see
03:58:38Paul_The_Nerdsean: Ignore them. Ask the question. :-P
03:58:46lostlogic*high fives sharpe*
03:58:53seanwell the question was....why does it suck :P
03:58:58maeckI have 9 hours on my G5 60gb
03:59:09seani only get about 4 on my 4th gen 40gb
03:59:11maeckEnough for my coast to coast travel
03:59:13sharpebecause it draws more power than the apple firmware
03:59:22seani used to get about 6
03:59:23lostlogicsean: my theory #1 is that we only use one CPU core, and 1 core at higher frequency is worse than 2 cores at lower frequency
03:59:28sharpekind of redundant, but still.
03:59:31midkayhey. HEY. deliciously boring sound-settings icon.
03:59:53sharpeit's decilious like a plate.
03:59:54Paul_The_Nerdlostlogic: That was my theory too!
04:00:00midkayit is a plate.
04:00:13seanany rockbox versions used both cores?
04:00:16sharpethen it's decilious!
04:00:21lostlogicsean: beyond that, our i2c driver sucks which means we burn a lot of clock cycles waiting for it, and it's possible that we initialize something wrong, or leave modules we aren't using powered up.
04:00:23Paul_The_Nerdsean: It draws more power right now because the focus is on "Making things work well, instead of just 'mostly well'" and then we get to the "Now, what part of all this code is soaking up the juice" phase later.
04:00:25midkaydecilious? :E
04:00:53seani see.
04:00:57lostlogicsean: no, nobody has tried to write multi-core rockbox yet.
04:01:03seani understand where you coming from
04:01:22seani do not understand how to type aparently.... but yea
04:02:09seanthen i guess my next question would be is there any easy way of intergrating flac into say apples firmware?
04:02:22Paul_The_NerdNot even remotely close to easy.
04:02:32Paul_The_NerdBesides, FLAC is probably always going to take more battery life than MP3
04:02:41Paul_The_NerdIt has to spin up the disk a HELL of a lot more because of increased file sizes.
04:03:06seanyou raise a good point
04:03:25sharpewhee, time to test the better text input
04:03:36VoltageXPaul_The_Nerd: :D HCl got the DUMB plugin to patch cleanly against the latest CVS
04:03:46VoltageXbut I can't build it
04:03:48Paul_The_NerdOn a related note, spinning up a disk from a halt takes less power than continuing to spin it right? How often would a disk need to be spinup/halted before it's more efficient to keep the spin going?
04:04:02Paul_The_NerdVoltageX: What kinda build problems?
04:04:21maeckevery 64mb (fuffer size)
04:04:33VoltageXno rule to make <insert name of .c file here>, dependency of <.a file>
04:04:34seani think spinning it from halt every so often would be worse for the hdd though
04:04:35lostlogicPaul_The_Nerd: difficult to judge.
04:04:55Paul_The_Nerdmaeck: What was that in response to?
04:04:57maeckthat is normail behaviour. Just like the apple firmware
04:05:13Paul_The_Nerdsean: Nah. Most/all MP3 players spin up, buffer, spin down, then spin up later to rebuffer.
04:05:18maeckPaul... I meant, you only need to spin up when the 64 Mb buffer reaches its end...
04:05:42maeckbut thet is a given
04:05:47seani see
04:05:49maeckthat is a given
04:05:52lostlogicmaeck: he knows that... he was asking a question regarding when it becomes not worth it to spindown between fills.
04:05:55Paul_The_Nerdmaeck: Oh, I knew that. But the thing is, depending on the level of compression of the data in the buffer, 64mb could be 2 hours, or it could be 5 minutes.
04:05:55maeckI have type issues today.
04:06:10maeckas in %?
04:06:22seanpaul i commend you on your knowledge
04:06:23Paul_The_NerdAnd on other Rockbox targets, the buffer is 32mb, 16mb, 8mb, or even 2mb
04:06:28sharpeor it could be... three minutes.
04:07:09Paul_The_Nerdlostlogic: For example, I wonder if playing WAV on a 2mb buffer device might just be left spinning (assuming it's not)
04:07:31lostlogicPaul_The_Nerd: yar, it probably should be, if it's not.
04:07:45VoltageXPaul_The_Nerd: HCl should turn up in about 6hrs, so I'll be able to troubleshoot this then.
04:07:46seanpeace all
04:08:17Paul_The_NerdVoltageX: Hm. Yeah, usually that means that a .c file exists that isn't somehow connected by way of all the various makefile mumbo jumbo etc.
04:08:24 Quit piroko ("telinit 0")
04:09:00Paul_The_NerdBut I don't really know exactly how it works in relation to dependencies.
04:09:02maeckwhat we need to know is how much power and time does a spin up take. And how much continous spinning takes (power). Then we can calulate sweetspot (bits/sec) for each buffer size.
04:09:10 Quit sean ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
04:09:30lostlogicmaeck: aye
04:10:02maeckWith that knowledge you could also determine how much seconds of future playlist songs we should cache
04:10:04 Quit punkrockguy318 ("Ex-Chat")
04:10:15maeckBut how do we measure...
04:10:18 Join gursikh [0] (
04:10:34Paul_The_Nerdmaeck: Unfortunately, that would require some hardware fun with a multimeter probably.
04:10:45sharpeyay hardware fun!
04:10:48lostlogictehre are people around here who have done similar measurements
04:10:55lostlogicI think Rob2222 is one of them
04:11:23VoltageXPaul_The_Nerd: I may be able to provide that hardware fun when I replace the battery
04:11:45lostlogicwould hafta do a measurement like: spin down disk, measure current draw at idle. request a 1 byte read, measure current through spinup, until that byte is read. measure current with disk spinning, and with disk reading
04:11:46maeck'Cause, right now Rockbox isnt caching ahead is it? It just caches whatever it is playing plus x number of next songs (if it fits in the buffer).
04:12:06lostlogicmaeck: I don't follow.
04:12:13lostlogicmaeck: it caches as much data as fits in RAM
04:12:35 Quit hardeep ("[BX] Free sex with a BitchX upgrade! Call for details!")
04:12:59maeckRio Karma and Ipod firmware read the current song, and the first (say) 10 seconds of the next songs in the playlists. If you skip ahead, the song is magically there. Then it spins up and reads the rest of the next song.
04:13:04maeckGot that?
04:13:18lostlogicmaeck: ahhh
04:13:23lostlogicinteresting strategy.
04:13:37Paul_The_Nerdmaeck: While that's beneficial to people who skip alot, that's not so good for people who like to listen straight through actual playlists.
04:13:38lostlogicI prefer ours.
04:13:51lostlogic(because I turn on shuffle and hold and ignore the thing)
04:14:00Paul_The_NerdExactly what I do!
04:14:08Galoisshuffle is for weenies
04:14:25maeckI prefer the rockbox style also. Cause I play albums... not random songs
04:14:30twisted`maeck: afaik the ipod holds up to 30min of music in it's rom
04:14:48lostlogictwisted`: it holds 32 (30g) or 64(60g) megs of data in ram
04:14:51maeckPlay albums, That is why I need gapless
04:15:00sharpeheh, lets do support for the ipod shuffle with rockbox :D
04:15:01Galoisanyway I don't see the harm in caching bits of the next few songs while the disk is spinning anyway
04:15:02lostlogictwisted`: which is about 30m of -aps mp3
04:15:09Paul_The_Nerdlostlogic: The 60gig 4G/Photo is only 32 still, I think
04:15:23lostlogicPaul_The_Nerd: you're right, I was speaking of 5g only
04:15:33VoltageXlet's port rockbox to the shuffle!
04:15:47Paul_The_NerdGalois: Rockbox caches all of the next several songs though, which is better than bits for sequential playback in regards to battery life.
04:15:47sharpethen we can port rockbox to sticks!
04:15:50 Quit bagawk (Remote closed the connection)
04:15:50lostlogicGalois: complexity in the playback system is my reason not to.
04:16:10maeckIf you can make it play ogg and flac... Here is a reason. No reason for plugins though... Kinda tough to play Tetrox on a shuffle
04:16:10Galois(says the person working on the playback system)
04:16:36sharpeit'd be a very, very, stripped down version if you think about it...
04:16:37 Quit ProgramZeta (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
04:16:38*Paul_The_Nerd points at the lack of a GCC for the DSP in the Shuffle
04:16:52Paul_The_Nerdsharpe: VoiceUI. You can have all the features, just strip out graphical plugins and CustomWPS
04:16:53sharpeif anyone would actually do it, anyway.
04:16:53lostlogicGalois: :-D
04:17:10sharpeyeah, but wouldn't be much use with plugins...
04:17:31maeckPaul. The method of reading the first 10 seconds of the next 15 songs. Makes the player more responsive (no spin up needed if you skip past that 5 song collection if B. Spears)
04:17:54Paul_The_Nerdmaeck: Yes, but it also means that the player will have to spin up earlier if you're NOT skipping
04:18:08twisted`just put like 2gb flash in there
04:18:13twisted`the thing of the nano
04:18:18twisted`IN the iPod Video
04:18:22lostlogictwisted`: flash is too slow for playing the audio from
04:18:31VoltageXwhere's the file that defines the version that's displayed at startup?
04:18:41maeckI cannot imagine that the shuffle has much firmware. I guess decoding is all done in chip.
04:18:41twisted`lostlogic: afaik it's like... faster in i/o then the actual size of the file is
04:18:42lostlogictwisted`: that's why the nano still has RAM
04:18:49Galoisin the worst case, with uncompressed audio, 10*15sec is about 3 megs of data
04:19:05lostlogichmm, you're right, not too slow
04:19:27twisted`I mean... flash is pretty damn fast
04:19:28lostlogicprobably a power issue there too that slowly reading trickle of data from flash is expensive, not sure
04:19:30maeckPaul: Your answer is also true. It is different by the user.
04:19:31*lostlogic stops talking out his ass.
04:19:42Galois3 megs is about 10% penalty on a 32meg buffer
04:19:43sharpethat's a very difficult thing to do.
04:20:01Galoisbut uncompressed wav is a corner case, most times you're playing at least flac, which halves the penalty right there
04:20:27lostlogicintro caching does sound like an interesting idea, but it would require either scrapping the current buffer structure completely, or having an intros section and a main section, separately managed, with the intros linked into their main sections once their main sections are buffered.
04:20:48lostlogic*ponders* yes, I can see how writing it would work. Not saying I like it for rockbox, but I can see how it would be done.
04:20:59*Paul_The_Nerd votes against it.
04:20:59Galoisobviously it is secondary in priority to just getting the damn playback working in the first place
04:21:09*Paul_The_Nerd thinks he recalls it being discussed a few other times too.
04:21:11lostlogichey, playback works
04:21:19twisted`stupid idea
04:21:21twisted`but could be something
04:21:22Galoisit works? /me checks
04:21:26twisted`can't you let the user DECIDE
04:21:28twisted`in settings
04:21:31twisted`if they want to cache SONGS
04:21:32lostlogicI mean there are a few bugs posted on my wiki still
04:21:33twisted`or INTROS
04:21:38lostlogicbut they're not very bad any more
04:21:44twisted`cus some want to skip a lot
04:21:46twisted`some don't
04:21:49Paul_The_Nerdtwisted`: That would result in a very large increase in code complexity.
04:22:05twisted`Paul_The_Nerd: definately yes...
04:22:32Paul_The_Nerdtwisted`: Well, two goals of Rockbox are "work the same on all players"
04:22:44Paul_The_NerdAnd "Keep working on the Archoses"
04:22:52Paul_The_NerdA second buffering algorithm would have to be implemented for both
04:23:05Paul_The_NerdAnd it would almost *definitely* then make the Archos build too big
04:23:17GaloisI believe the archos deadweight will have to be dropped at some point
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04:23:20twisted`why does it have to be exactly the same
04:23:21lostlogicPaul_The_Nerd: hmm... in this case, that wouldn't apply until we unify playback engiens
04:23:26lostlogicwhich... might happen some day
04:23:39Galoislook, even apache 2.0 makes no effort to conform to low memory configurations anymore. Their official stance on that is to use apache 1.3 if you need it.
04:23:39Paul_The_Nerdlostlogic: Even if you didn't unify them, the behaviour of the two should be kept similar.
04:23:50twisted`I mean an Archoss is a completely different machine compared to the iPod
04:23:50sharpeheh, wonderful c64 memory access....
04:23:53Paul_The_Nerdlostlogic: So if a new buffering algorithm were added, something similar at least would need to be put on Archos
04:23:57lostlogicPaul_The_Nerd: the intro buffering thing wouldn't really change behavior so much as change strategy
04:23:58maeckThe buffering algorithm would only be useful if the buffer is of sufficient size. PLUS the intro buffer size could be different for FLAC, MP3 or WAV... Because you only need to cover the 2 seconds of spinup.
04:24:28sharpeif (buttons == JOYSTICK_DOWN) { ram[0x0277 + ram[0x00C6]] = alphabet[alphaplace]; ram[0x00C6]++; }
04:24:40twisted`I mean some players may have like... 2meg
04:24:42Paul_The_Nerdtwisted`: And so's the H120. And the X5. The idea is that someone can get a new player, put Rockbox on it, and know what to expect if they're already an RB user
04:24:42twisted`others have 64
04:24:57twisted`Paul_The_Nerd: that's why I say, let the user decide
04:25:00Galoispaul_the_nerd: I agree with that logic, but archoses are not new players
04:25:05twisted`have 2 version
04:25:07Galoisat least, rockbox-able archoses are not new
04:25:11twisted`so it compiles with or without
04:25:12twisted`I dunno
04:25:18Paul_The_Nerdtwisted`: The code still has to BE there to let the user decide.
04:25:26Paul_The_Nerdtwisted`: Which then results in the "too big" problem
04:25:40*Galois silently plugs compile time options again
04:25:43twisted`how bout *patches*
04:25:57twisted`intro patch < always
04:26:00Paul_The_NerdGalois: Compile time options mean you have to assume all users can/will compile, or you have to offer every possible variant precompiled though
04:26:07twisted`big buffer patch < optional
04:26:11Galoisno you don't. Users who don't compile get the default.
04:26:13Galoisno loss to them
04:26:17ashridahPaul_The_Nerd: if this is the interface issue, i can see a way around it. keep the current system. on more capable units, have it show up as 'advanced' and enable a themable gui or whatever. on the archoses, have it as the only entry.
04:26:38ashridahthen it's ifdef'ed out on archos, and if we write it correctly, it has to appear in advanced to be usable in the gui
04:26:39Paul_The_Nerdashridah: Nah, it's a completely different buffering algorithm at stake here.
04:26:47twisted`I mean I don't think what maeck made is actually workin... on anythin that has a b/w screen
04:26:58*ashridah should probably have read up more closely
04:27:31twisted`but the idea of "keeping everything the same:
04:27:32twisted`is well
04:27:33Galoisthe larger point is that, despite rockbox's simplicity goal, you're eventually going to have to drop ancient hardware and just move on and say "anybody with such-and-such old hardware should stick to rockbox 3.0"
04:27:35twisted`OK on one hand
04:27:36Paul_The_Nerdashridah: It's basically "Buffering some of your music, +intros to the next X song in the playlist" vs "Buffer as much sequential music as possible"
04:27:43twisted`but on the other
04:27:43ashridahi agree on the consistency issue. It's *very* important for blind users, in particular. the instructions should be the same no matter what platform they're using
04:27:55twisted`your just... lettin sweet stuff... go because you want to stick to old 'n simple
04:27:55maecktwisted. The thing I did was for ipod videos only. Did not spend time for different screensizes or grey screens.
04:28:04twisted`maeck: ya precisely
04:28:08maeckAlthough, It could work on the gray screen ipods aswell
04:28:10lostlogicintro buffering is deadweight unless you skip tracks a lot
04:28:17*lostlogic poops on it.
04:28:22Galoisashridah: you can maintain old versions for niche users. Linux and apache both do it that way.
04:28:43Paul_The_Nerdlostlogic: Yeah, I'm very anti-intro buffering as it can be avoided simply by making a playlist of music you actually *like*
04:28:43Galoisniche to me means "hardware that is not widely available any more"
04:28:56twisted`Paul_The_Nerd: impossible
04:29:06twisted`Paul_The_Nerd: but then again you probably don't had ADHD or ADD
04:29:20Paul_The_Nerdtwisted`: Actually, I've been diagnosed with ADD. Just, y'know, for the record.
04:29:35twisted`Paul_The_Nerd: then... I got no idea how you can have a playlist setup you like
04:29:40twisted`but then again it's possible
04:29:50GaloisPaul_The_Nerd: my argument for it is that it doesn't cost the user anything (except in weird cases like "user has archos" or "user uses WAV files")
04:30:05Galoisthe only cost is on lostlogic here
04:30:10Paul_The_NerdGalois: Intro Buffering doesn't cost the user *much*
04:30:12lostlogicI won't implement it
04:30:13Galoisor someone ... to code it up
04:30:15Paul_The_Nerd"Trivial" is different from "Nothing"
04:30:17lostlogicsomeone else would hafta
04:30:34twisted`that;s just plain stubborness
04:30:35lostlogicand so far I'm the only one other than Slasheri brave enough to work on the swcodec playback system
04:30:48Paul_The_NerdI think keeping one buffering system is a good idea anyway.
04:30:49lostlogictwisted`: if this was my paying job, I might, but it's not
04:30:55twisted`lostlogic: true
04:30:58Paul_The_NerdIt'd be really hard to maintain two if something else changes.
04:31:14twisted`me go sleep
04:31:25twisted`gotta pick up this hot foxy lady from the train in a couple o hours
04:31:28twisted`so me catch some sleep...
04:31:33lostlogicplus, the whole idea of metadata on buffer and doing away with the track structs gets eaten if we do this intro buffering, because we once again need two seprate ring buffers
04:31:46maeckThis is my last comment on the intro caching: The thing is that two very polular players followed this scheme... and it was not the easiest solution.
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04:32:03Paul_The_Nerdmaeck: Ah, but those two players are not Rockbox, and Rockbox is not them.
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04:32:16sharpei've an idea.
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04:32:41sharpeit would be completely redundant.
04:32:46sharpeand wouldn't solve anything.
04:32:50maeckPaul: true... but they have 'mostly' the same users and behaviours.
04:32:56 Nick azhnerazh2 is now known as michaelconner (
04:33:11michaelconnerhi all... got a quick compilation question
04:33:18lostlogichow about this, rockbox wants smarter users than the people who use mainstream players with stock firmware
04:33:21 Quit midkay (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
04:33:21*lostlogic runs
04:33:28 Quit ashridah ("to the city, huzzah")
04:33:29Galoistime will solve this problem without any developer effort though
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04:33:41michaelconnerif i want to do a compile without the CPU scaling for 4G iPod
04:33:46Galoisa 64 meg buffer is already enough to hold almost a whole album with mp3
04:33:56Paul_The_Nerdmaeck: Since Rockbox is Open Source, the users are always welcome to make it behave how they expect, but until then it's at the whim of how "Those who write it" prefer to have their music played.
04:34:02lostlogicmichaelconner: comment out has adjustable cpu freq in the config_ipod4g.h
04:34:09lostlogicmichaelconner: or whatever that file is called for your player
04:34:11michaelconneris all i need to do this? put "//" in front of #define HAVE_ADJUSTABLE_CPU_FREQ
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04:34:22Paul_The_Nerdmichaelconner: Yes. :)
04:34:23michaelconnerand then compile?
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04:34:33*goffa_ knows Paul_The_Nerd's comment to maeck all too well
04:34:35Paul_The_Nerdmichaelconner: Good luck. Sorry we haven't been able to reproduce the bug you've been having here.
04:34:42michaelconnerhey, no problem
04:34:58michaelconnernow that i found i can charge in the car via firewire, the battery life isn't as much a problem anymore
04:35:17maeckPaul: true. That is why I'll make a graphical menu for myself. Anyone can use it if they like... if not... why would I care
04:35:26Paul_The_Nerdmaeck: Hehehe.
04:35:28*lostlogic cheers for opensource
04:35:46Paul_The_Nerdgoffa_: Well, I'm actually for "Configurable behaviour of the select button" since in most cases it reproduces the behaviour of the "Right" button anyway.
04:35:46michaelconnerthanks for the help, folks
04:35:47sharpeheh, i fixed my problem with the scrolling thru the alphabet...
04:36:09goffa_yeah... but its still to the will of the developers
04:36:17sharpeexcept i have to fix the fact that it gets the button status... at least hundreds of times per second.
04:36:22michaelconnernite all
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04:36:52lostlogicgoffa_: your thought has its merrits, but I'm not an interface person, so it's not up to me ;)
04:36:54goffa_heh.. by the time i learn c rockbox will be obsolete
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04:37:04Paul_The_Nerdgoffa_: Rockbox will NEVER be Obsolete.
04:37:07lostlogicgoffa_: rockbox will never be obsolete ;)
04:37:07Paul_The_NerdDO NOT SAY THAT. :-P
04:37:15goffa_by the time i learn c it will be :)
04:37:24goffa_if you get my drift
04:37:30*lostlogic smacks goffa_ with his deitel and deitel book
04:37:36maeckc is really easy
04:37:48*goffa_ doesn't think he is going to learn it though
04:37:50lostlogicC is certainly easier to understand than ENGLISH!
04:38:02Paul_The_Nerdlostlogic: Especially the way some people type it. ;-)
04:38:17sharpeor speak it.
04:38:23maeckunless you try to understand /apps/list.c (me have trouble keeping up with all the pointers and such)
04:38:25midkayor spray it.
04:38:36sharpespeak it, don't spray it, midkay.
04:38:49midkayspray it, don't... .. sharpe.
04:38:50sharpethat didn't work right.
04:38:56maeckYou can spray C in one swoop...
04:38:57lostlogicmaeck: you should try playback.c on for size some day
04:39:00Paul_The_NerdI had one post in the forums, the only way I knew I'd actually solved his problem was because the first two words were "Thank you"... the whole rest of it... I dunno.
04:39:11midkaybut you can't spray one swoop in C!
04:39:17sharpesure you can
04:39:24midkayPaul_The_Nerd, haha.
04:39:39sharperandom letters, with a semicolon every twenty characters.
04:40:04goffa_Paul_The_Nerd: was probably one of mine
04:40:35 Quit gromit` (SendQ exceeded)
04:40:46Paul_The_Nerdgoffa_: Nah, I'm about 95% sure he wasn't a native english speaker, and had either really crappy translation software, or was just guessing half the time
04:41:08midkayPaul_The_Nerd, how 'bout that post on slow scrolling + the "new scroll settings in the display menu". haha, that one was good..
04:41:11goffa_i'm just giving you shit
04:41:41Paul_The_Nerdmidkay: I was tempted to correct them, but I just couldn't. Car-wreck effect.
04:42:39midkayPaul_The_Nerd, haha.
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04:43:28sharpei think it's funny when people place spoken accents into text.
04:43:38sharpeor try to work them into text...
04:43:47 Join RoC_MM [0] (
04:43:57goffa_i think its funny that whenever my boss emails me he finds a way to throw the word "fallowing" in there
04:44:04goffa_like "please order the fallowing"
04:44:08midkaysharpe, i think it's funny that something's wrong with you.
04:44:31midkaysilence. i love it.
04:44:32goffa_i send emails back "i've ordered the following:"
04:44:40midkaygoffa_, haha.
04:44:55goffa_he's an okie
04:44:58Paul_The_Nerdsharpe: I can't *stand* when people intentionally type "aboot"
04:44:59midkaystart being a bit more firm..
04:45:11midkay"i've ordered the <b>following</b>"
04:45:46sharpelike, the concatenation of 'a boot' ?
04:45:52midkaygradually work it up to like "i've ordered the <i><b><u>_*FOLLOWING*_</i></b></u>" :)
04:45:57lostlogicwhut aboot it? :-D
04:45:58 Join Gibbed [0] (
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04:46:03sharpeooh, use the blink tag!
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04:46:25goffa_grr... i can't find my tape measure
04:46:25sharpeand some javascript to change the colors.
04:46:42Paul_The_Nerdsharpe; Like "about" but wishing they were Canadian or something
04:46:46midkay:o :o :o
04:47:00sharpei see what you're talking aboot.
04:47:04midkayPaul_The_Nerd, haha. 'wishing'.
04:47:12Galoiscanadians don't even say aboot
04:47:18lostlogicGalois: I beg to differ
04:47:21lostlogicthe ones I work with do.
04:48:14Paul_The_NerdThey *say* aboot.
04:48:21Paul_The_NerdThey still type in English
04:48:44*goffa_ lives urinating distance from canada
04:48:47goffa_well not quite
04:48:48goffa_but close
04:49:02*Paul_The_Nerd lives in the Anti-Canada, also known as Texas.
04:49:03goffa_i guess i'm further away than i used to be
04:49:18goffa_used to be 16 mi.. now i'm 20
04:49:27goffa_or so
04:49:57sharpeheh, is it that tetonic plate shifting? :)
04:50:09goffa_uh.. yeah
04:50:23goffa_actually... moved 50 mi away from where i grew up
04:50:39maecktakes me a 5 minute longer flight to get back to San Fran every Thursday...
04:50:46sharpeconsidering they move a few centimeters per year...
04:50:51sharpedamn, you're one old person.
04:52:34 Join dr3wster [0] (
04:52:40sharpebuttons don't like me now.
04:52:53dr3wsterhey, how can I install rockboy on my 5g video ipod?
04:53:01sharpeit's already installed
04:53:09dr3wsteroh, it is? where?
04:53:19Paul_The_Nerddr3wster: Read the PluginRockboy wiki page
04:53:20lostlogicDOESN"T WORK
04:53:27Paul_The_Nerdlostlogic: Break something else?
04:53:36sharpeooh, you used shift for the quotation marks too.
04:53:47dr3wsterPaul_The_Nerd, oh, I just need to get a .gb file and open it?
04:53:54Paul_The_Nerddr3wster: Yup
04:54:12dr3wsterPaul_The_Nerd, haha, got a good site?;)
04:54:15lostlogicI thought rockboy on 5g was borked
04:54:30sharpenever fails...
04:54:35dr3wstersharpe: good call
04:54:42dr3wsterso does rockboy actually work?
04:54:44sharpethen you have the bittorrent sites, if you can't find any.
04:54:55sharpeand that's all the information i'm legally allowed to give out.
04:54:55lostlogicgah, that's like the 3rd time I've tried to grab the 5 SEK coins I have left over from devcon to do laundry.
04:54:56maeckgoogle has a nice option in the search: name filetype:gb
04:55:11maeckor filetype:torrent
04:55:21sharpeor, ""
04:55:42midkayhm, am i alone in thinking that the struct "bjmenu" in Jewels is a tad bit suggestive? :p
04:55:45Paul_The_Nerdlostlogic: "Works" is true or false depending on whether you mean "Can I play" or "Can I play in a way that is enjoyable?"
04:56:04Paul_The_Nerdmidkay: Hahaha!
04:56:05Inc My Apple firmware looks funny when I boot into it!
04:56:06IncUpdate your bootloader to the newest version (available at the IpodInstallation page) and this problem should be fixed.
04:56:11Incwhat does it do to it?
04:56:13midkay#define BJ_HEIGHT 9
04:56:44Paul_The_NerdInc: What?
04:56:47 Quit Angel_of_Death ("Leaving")
04:56:57IncI saw it on the FAQ's
04:57:12sharpeit implores the use of magic.
04:57:16Paul_The_NerdInc: The original version of the Bootloader for the 4G grayscale did not wholly handle things properly, so when it then proceeded to load the Apple Firmware, there were small glitches in the display
04:57:51IncI see.
04:58:06Incso would you guy's recommend the auto installer?
04:58:13midkayhaha. bj->dirty = true;
04:58:18Paul_The_NerdBut then, I always recommend "Do it yourself"
04:58:18midkayseriously.. someone perverted wrote this..
04:58:32Paul_The_NerdThe autoinstaller has been known to not properly work though.
04:58:34Paul_The_NerdWell, one of them has
04:58:41goffa_i don't think copying the prebuilt extracted zip could be easier to be honest
04:58:42Paul_The_NerdThere's like 5 installers / install scripts / batch files / stuff
04:59:03IncPaul_The_Nerd~, why not the auto installer?
04:59:04maeckgoffa: this is about putting a new bootloader on.
04:59:22IncI see.
04:59:23goffa_on the x5 that isn't hard either
04:59:41Paul_The_NerdInc: Because it doesn't work for everyone, and it's really not that hard to do it the proper way.
04:59:54Incyeh tis just a pain in the ass
05:00:04Incand I'm really really not sure
05:00:18Inchow to make it boot the ipod firmware defualt.
05:00:23Incwell how to insert that patch.
05:00:37Paul_The_NerdIf you think you're going to want to boot the ipod fimware default, there's probably no real point in installing RB anyway
05:00:40Paul_The_NerdJust do IpodLinux.
05:00:49Galoisthere's lots of wiki pages that tell you how to patch. Pick one.
05:01:08Incipod linux is more likley to fail from what I've heard.
05:01:19sharpei've an idea to fix the problem with people wanting to boot into the apple firmware with rockbox!
05:01:22Incnot to mention the fact that I'm more stressed about that screwing up my ipod.
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05:01:54sharpewe put a timeout in the bootloader, so if a person presses a button, it will instead boot the ipod firmware instead of rockbox.
05:02:01sharpeingenious plan, isn't it?
05:02:06Paul_The_NerdInc: Well, IpodLinux is as safe as Rockbox really. You can't really permanently screw up your ipod anyway. But Linux offers a bunch of non music stuff
05:02:11Incipodlinux is a bit more destructive correct?
05:02:20sharpeif you want it to be..
05:02:23Paul_The_NerdInc: Rockbox is designed to be a music player. And if you don't want it to boot primary, clearly you're not really interested in that aspect of it.
05:02:37Paul_The_NerdInc: If you call "repartitioning" destructive. I wouldn't.
05:02:44IncI see.
05:02:54Paul_The_Nerdsharpe: Defeats the purpose of having it be "as fast as possible"
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05:02:56IncI call it a pain in the ass :)
05:03:04 Part Inc
05:03:13sharpebut you're not seeing the irony of it paul.
05:03:18 Join Inc [0] (i=xsst4@arcane/developer/inc)
05:03:33Paul_The_Nerdsharpe: Clearly I am not
05:03:43Incplus I don't thing there's color stuff with ipod linux
05:03:48Incor at least I haven't seen one.
05:03:56sharpeit already boots the regular ipod firmware in a similar fashion.
05:04:14Paul_The_Nerdsharpe: Ah, I thought you were suggesting having it wait an extra few seconds.
05:04:23Paul_The_NerdDuring which if the button is pressed at all, boot retail
05:04:43Galoisanyway, doesn't the apple firmware have a sleep mode that ensures it stays in apple mode until you reset it?
05:04:50Paul_The_NerdInc: There are colour themes for IpodLinux. But really, why does how the OS looks matter at all anyway. Rockbox really doesn't look very good at all except while playing music.
05:05:04Paul_The_NerdGalois: I think if you let it sleep long enough it actually shuts down. Not sure though.
05:05:21Galoismaybe, but I've never managed to wait long enough to have it shut down
05:05:48Paul_The_NerdIt's like 48 hours or something. Maybe more?
05:05:51Paul_The_NerdOr a little less?
05:06:21IncPaul_The_Nerd~, I see so you'd suggest ipod linux?
05:06:25Incis it easy to install?
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05:06:35Inclets say if I partition off 528 mb for it?
05:06:38Incor a 1gb.
05:06:48RoC_MMbut it's a bit harder to get it to use the latest nightlies
05:07:02RoC_MMand who knows who old version of ipodlinux the windows installer uses
05:07:10IncI see.
05:07:14Paul_The_NerdInc: It's probably about as easy as the "official" way for Rockbox. It really depends on what you want your alternate OS to do on the player, but Linux is designed for more "Varied functions" while Rockbox is "A music player that's better tahn RetailOS at playing music"
05:07:16RoC_MMrockbox is just superior
05:07:35Incbut you can't use the same games that ipod linux right?
05:07:44RoC_MMand ipodlinux is just more for those who want do run linux on their ipod, as opposed to just play music, which is rockbox.
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05:07:48RoC_MMRockbox is much better.
05:07:55dr3wsterdoes anyone know what the buttons are for rockboy for the ipod 5g?
05:07:57RoC_MM(for those who want to play actual music)
05:08:03maeck rockbox has a different target
05:08:24maeckrockbox plays music. Is not an operating system like ipod linux.
05:08:30RoC_MMcorrect, as I said.
05:09:08IncRoC_MM~, I don't want to use it to play music.
05:09:14RoC_MMI think Rockbox has shown better support for music players.
05:09:27sharpeit supports more players...
05:09:31sharpebut, that's redundant also
05:09:42sharpeas it's rockbox, versus "iPodLinux"
05:09:43RoC_MMWhat do you want to do with your iPod music player Inc?
05:10:00Paul_The_Nerddr3wster: The buttons suck right now. ALOT. Like, no A or B button, I think
05:10:05IncRoC_MM~, use it to run applications and use the default ipod stuff for my media playing
05:10:08dr3wsteryeah, that's what I thought
05:10:10dr3wsterthanks, Paul_The_Nerd
05:10:29RoC_MMI heard it was hard to do "linuxy" things on the ipod, because there are no keyboard buttons.
05:10:43RoC_MMIt's a little hard to type with a scrollwheel.
05:11:20Paul_The_Nerdlostlogic: Alright, I've been listening to a playlist of JUST mp3 audio for who knows how long now, and haven't had a single skip or problem. I think I'm going to say the problem he was having is definitely atypical, or at least "not easily reproduced"
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05:14:15lostlogicPaul_The_Nerd: hehe, bueno
05:14:28yishunguymm... hi
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05:14:37lostlogicPaul_The_Nerd: although if it started recently... hard to judge if I may be the cause :-
05:15:12Paul_The_Nerdlostlogic: Well he said something like a week or two?
05:15:23lostlogicwhich is indeed when I started messing with it
05:15:37Paul_The_Nerdlostlogic: Yeah, but I imagine at least ONE other person would have this problem if he has it on TWO h140s
05:16:00lostlogic2006-03-23 seems to be the first commit in this mess
05:16:04lostlogicwith several near that time
05:16:05Paul_The_Nerdlostlogic: Especially since it sounds like the problem has been the same across all your messing with playback.c, I'm thinking maybe the cable on his headphones is just loose.
05:16:06IncPaul_The_Nerd~, so why ipodlinux over rockbox if rockbox has games and what not.
05:16:13lostlogicand then starting in earnest on 4/2
05:16:14Incdoes ipod linux look better or something?
05:16:25Paul_The_NerdInc: Because Rockbox just has a couple games, and is really designed to be a music player.
05:16:30yishunguyi was wondering, if while using high end earphones, like UE's; if you use rockbox's crossfeed and eq settings, would it improve or degrade the audio quality?
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05:16:47yishunguywould it help at all?
05:17:00speacial_edInc, why dont you just get both and see which one you prefer
05:17:07lostlogicyishunguy: any audio post processing technically reduces quality, but to your perception it may improve it, it really depends on how you like to hear music and what type of music you are listening to
05:17:10Paul_The_Nerdyishunguy: It really depends. If your UEs have a weakness the EQ can help slightly make up for it. And Crossfeed really is more opinion than anything
05:17:27*lostlogic shuts up and lets Paul handle the users' questions
05:17:35 Quit Rob2222 (No route to host)
05:17:44maeckWhat do you guys think of the following icons:
05:17:46maeckRECENT BOOKMARKSBook with red bookmark
05:17:48maeckSOUND SETTINGSLoudspeaker
05:17:49maeckGENERAL SETTINGSToolbox
05:17:50maeckMANAGE SETTINGSFloppydisk
05:17:52maeckBROWSE THEMESPaintbrush
05:17:53maeckPLAYLIST OPTIONSList
05:17:55maeckBROWSE PLUGINSPlug and wire
05:17:56maeckINFOQuestion mark
05:18:04maeckHits the purpose of the menu? somewhat?
05:18:05sharpewell, they're text-like
05:18:22maeckOh, did not notice. Look like icons to me...
05:18:29lostlogicManage settings I'm not sure of the rest are cute
05:18:32maeckI M A G I N A T I O N
05:18:35yishunguythanks a lot... just that i was thinking of getting the UE's... and with my standard apple buds, crossfeed actually makes the sound more expansive...
05:18:51lostlogicyishunguy: that will probably be true with any earphones
05:19:53Incspeacial_ed~, I guess I could.
05:20:03maeckBTW, is it normal if you do an unmount of your Ipod, the blinking stop sign remains?
05:20:28Paul_The_Nerdyishunguy: Especially in-ear ones, I'd imagine.
05:20:29speacial_edInc, seems like the best idea to me... and if ipod linux is noticably better, let me know...
05:21:07Incspeacial_ed~, I would guess I'd base it on all of which is the hardest.
05:21:39speacial_edseems like a good way to choose to me
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05:22:14yishunguyyeah, i guess the issue is whether i should get in-ears or the big can types... \
05:22:24Incspeacial_ed~, yeh I'll have to look into the ease of install
05:22:29sharpei just had another idea
05:22:38speacial_edInc, what are you installing on?
05:22:43sharpethat would be, essentially, useless.
05:22:52Incspeacial_ed~, ipod video 60gb.
05:22:55***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
05:23:01IncIT seems you guy's have more support then ipodlinux
05:23:04speacial_edInc, its rockbox, all the way, no question about it
05:23:21speacial_edInc, ipod linux install for 5g is insanely long
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05:23:44dr3wsterso wait, rockbox is linux-based, right? Then is it possible to just take iboy from the ipodlinux project and run it in rockbox?
05:23:48Incok yeh the main things I wanted to do was doom and
05:23:57Incthe gameboy emulation.
05:24:01Incdr3wster~, we have one.
05:24:13dr3wsterInc, but it's terrible for the ipodvideo
05:24:16speacial_edInc, gameboy emulation SUCKS on rockbox
05:24:22speacial_edInc, but doom is great
05:24:33Incdr3wster~, I see.
05:24:33Paul_The_Nerddr3wster: Rockbox is absolutely NOT linux based.
05:24:37Incspeacial_ed~, heh darn.
05:24:44sharpebut, we'll have c64 emulation for rockbox sometime :D
05:24:45RoC_MMmaeck, once you unmount something, it's safe to disconnect no matter what the display says. Only time you will see the check mark indicating you can disconnect it, is when the Windows driver was used to access it.
05:24:50dr3wsterPaul_The_Nerd, ah, I guess I just saw open-source and assumed:-p
05:25:02Paul_The_Nerddr3wster: Man, *everyone* assumes we're linux based.
05:25:15sharpecommodore 64...
05:25:15Incsharpe~, hah when's "sometime"
05:25:18Paul_The_NerdWe should rename the project to "Rockbox is not Linux!"
05:25:30sharpesometime is when i finish it :)
05:25:31Inchow might I help withit to move it along say in the next few weeks :)
05:25:33speacial_edPaul_The_Nerd, haha, do it
05:25:39dr3wsterPaul_The_Nerd, well I followed the ipodlinux project and it had just gotten doom when I last checked and I saw an alternative OS called rockbox that had doom, so I just assumed
05:25:47dr3wsterPaul_The_Nerd, but then it'll just sound too much like WINE
05:26:04sharpei have no idea Inc...
05:26:21Incsharpe~, no clue no progress nothing?
05:26:43sharpei'm just working on a keyboard input type thing right now
05:26:50sharpei've got the standard text mode working
05:27:02sharpeand configuration settings work.
05:27:12Incso what's the delay?
05:27:50sharperockbox plugin button api function's dislike of me.
05:27:51maeckRoC_MM: That is what I thought. I felt perfectly okay to unplug it after unmount. It was just a bit different behaviour from the windows way
05:28:01sharpeeverything related to plugins hate me :)
05:28:34speacial_edsharpe, i feel your pain, its ok
05:28:47RoC_MMmaeck, Apple provided Windows with help to get the Windows driver to send the right signal. But once the umount completes, your good to go. Maybe one day Apple will be considerate and provide with the proper signal to send to chance the indicator on the screen.
05:31:41maeckProbably part of the windows 'driver' that gets installed to access the usb drive. I guess
05:34:54RoC_MMit's the stock windows driver
05:35:10RoC_MMit's just a feature for noobies who disconnect without umounting
05:36:49jnccould i erm, run rockbox on a Mac colour classic >:)
05:37:16jncbiggest iWhatever
05:38:11biffherohow do I ues the tagcache, and start playing 'all songs' randomly?
05:38:49Paul_The_NerdMake sure Shuffles is on
05:38:56Paul_The_NerdThen go into the "Songs" list on the front page
05:39:00Paul_The_NerdThen click any song in the list
05:39:05Paul_The_NerdThen hit "Next" to get a random song.
05:39:11biffheroi used the new 'quick screen' on my ipod
05:40:04biffherook, for some reason it wasn't doing that before, or I wasn't patient enough. i might have been drilled down in a search, too.
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05:42:27maeckneed sleep, bye
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05:55:47sharpequeue is the most fun word to type.
05:56:50Paul_The_NerdQueueing is.
05:57:47sharpeshould i have a debug option in the config file ?
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06:10:51lostlogicPaul_The_Nerd: damn you're fast ;)
06:11:07Paul_The_Nerdlostlogic: Yes, but in that case my explanation is rather sorely lacking
06:11:26lostlogicmine is only marginally better, because I'm one lazy fuck
06:11:50Paul_The_NerdGenerally I do whatever it is I'm doing, and every now and then think "Hey, I should hit refresh on that other window"
06:11:58lostlogicon the upside, I just did like 2 months worth of dishes, so my apartment sucks less.
06:12:23lostlogicPaul_The_Nerd: yes, I understand... when I was a college student I was much the same (I assume that's what youa re?)
06:13:18Paul_The_Nerdlostlogic: Yup.
06:13:54Paul_The_Nerdlostlogic: A college student who eventually realized that in most cases he's serving one, and a stack of paper plates and other disposable dishes makes his kitchen *look* much neater most of the time.
06:14:38lostlogicPaul_The_Nerd: heeh, next apartment: dishwasher. I make too much money to be doing dishes by hand ;)
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06:16:43Paul_The_Nerdlostlogic: Good plan
06:19:10sharpei think your next apartment should be more than a dishwasher.
06:22:41lostlogichmm, interesting ponit. Maybe I'll get a two bedroom: dishwasher, and a washer/dryer (the washer/dryer is the master bedroom)
06:23:15sharpeyeh, i'm always looking out for you :D
06:23:41sharpewouldn't want you to have a cubic meter of living space without a bedroom, right?
06:24:32sharpei don't know how i'm going to get this keyboard input working...
06:24:42lostlogicsharpe: what's the prob?
06:25:25sharpei'm trying to get the input to actually recognize it scrolling thru a set of characters, instead of just doing one movement
06:25:38lostlogicoh jeepers
06:25:40*lostlogic shuts up.
06:25:47sharpeor in other words, if the button is still pressed, keep scrolling.
06:26:03sharpeheh, why?
06:26:22lostlogicoh, wait, that shouldn't be a problem...
06:26:34lostlogicBUTTON|BUTTON_REPEAT => keep scrolling?
06:26:49lostlogicthe button repeat events keep getting put on the queue by the rockbox button driver as long as the button's pressed
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06:26:59sharpei did not know that.
06:27:22sharpethank you.
06:27:29lostlogicsure thing :)
06:27:40lostlogicand here I was shutting up because I thought you had a complicated problem :-P
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06:28:20sharpewait, is it just BUTTON_REPEAT that's put in the queue?
06:28:38sharpeor is it or'd with the buttons...
06:28:51lostlogicord with the button being repeated
06:28:53JdGordonthe 2nd
06:31:23sharpewhat should be a decent speed to scroll thru a set of characters, ie, how many times per second?
06:31:47lostlogicsharpe: you're going to artifically manage the button repeat events from the button driver?
06:32:15sharpeeh, somewhat.
06:33:29speacial_edprobably a stupid question, but, how do i get equalizers?
06:34:33Paul_The_Nerdspeacial_ed: In the Sound settings menu?
06:35:15speacial_edPaul_The_Nerd, it says preset eqs or something like that.... do i have to make all of them and save them or something?
06:35:25sharpegraphical eq?
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06:36:38Paul_The_Nerdspeacial_ed: Yeah, those are ones you've saved, or someone else has saved and shared.
06:37:16speacial_edPaul_The_Nerd, ok thanks... any ideas where I could get ones like those in the apple firmware?
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06:38:22Paul_The_Nerdspeacial_ed: Not really. Generally, an equalizer is considered to be more personal taste anyway, so you're probably better off playing with it and finding settings that you like for different genres.
06:38:52speacial_edPaul_The_Nerd, ok thanks for the info
06:41:23Paul_The_NerdThe other option is to just google around a bit, and see what common settings are for different types of music
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06:45:06speacial_edPaul_The_Nerd, have been for a bit now.... I think Im set, and my friend went to a class all about equalizers and such, so Im gonna have him make me some if I fail horribly, which is likely
06:45:49sharpeheh, it's so easy for me to reverse the characters in the emulator...
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06:53:18sharpedon't think i'll be able to readily emulate 25fps...
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06:59:23sharpeodd... sometimes a certain key isn't registered...
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07:11:53claymI think I just bricked my iPod mini :)
07:12:48sharpetry restoring it
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07:15:00ninowi don't think this is a support channel, but would anyone mind lending their assistance to me?
07:16:05speacial_edninow, what do you need?
07:16:36ninowalright I followed the instructions on how to install rockbox for the ipod4g non-color
07:17:01ninowi'm not sure how to unzip the rockbox files to my ipod without itunes
07:17:08ninowas stated in step 2b
07:17:28speacial_edright click the file click unzip to and go to e\
07:17:34speacial_edthats pretty much it
07:17:47ninowwell i tried that
07:18:07ninowrebooted my ipod, and the ipod was the same as before, with the old firmware
07:18:09sharpedoes your ipod show as a disk to windows?
07:18:29sharpedid you extract the zip to the root of the disk?
07:18:48ninowwell when i went to the disk, i just extraced everything right there
07:18:50claymipodpatcher can't find it in windows and mac can't see it on mount. I think I bricked it good :)
07:19:09speacial_edwhat i did to mine..
07:19:12speacial_edi feel your pain
07:19:30speacial_edrather, what it did to me
07:20:40ninowunder h:, i have .rockbox, notes, rockbox.ipod, calendars, and contacts
07:20:46ninowi guess i could try installing it again
07:21:01sharpeare you sure you have the bootloader on your ipod?
07:21:46claymI can't even enter disk mode. Do I win a prize for this? :D
07:21:55ninowsharpe: is that the 40mb file?
07:22:05speacial_edclaym, not if i dont!
07:22:12speacial_edclaym, I did it before you to!
07:22:43claymspeacial_ed: :(
07:22:57***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
07:23:05speacial_edclaym, we could share a prize, I suppose, but I demand at least a cookie!
07:23:23claymspeacial_ed: haha, sure. :P
07:23:25sharpeninow: did you do step 'f' ?
07:23:40sharpeor e
07:23:57ninowah no, I browsed through it quickly
07:24:03ninowthat was after the linux part
07:24:08ninowmuahah thank you!
07:24:19claymspeacial_ed: I turned it on, and the backlight is on. The apple is staring me in the face, and it does nothing. :) I'm going to wait for the battery to die, then try to enter disk mode right away. Right now I can't even turn it off. :)
07:24:26ninowah it's kind of confusing though
07:24:32ninowi figured it was all the same thing
07:24:35ninowwhich didn't pertain to me
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07:26:17speacial_edclaym, little differant than mine.... it had full or at least almost full battery, decided it hated life, said the battery was empty, and nothing would recognize it so i couldnt restore and O had tried reseting and such... that was my nano, which I got my warrenty on, and happily bought my 5g
07:28:34claymI think I can fix it IF I manage to get to disk mode. I'm assuming if when you turn an iPod on, the select and play button are pushed, it ignores all software and just functions as a USB hard drive. But I neeed mine to turn off before I can test that theory. :)
07:29:00ninowk got it, thanks again
07:29:12claymAt least it's backlight is stuck on. That should make the battery die quickly :)
07:30:02sharpeclaym, so you can't even restart it?
07:30:06Galoiscan't you reset it?
07:30:24claymNope. No matter what buttons I push. It stays the same. Apple on screen. Backlight on.
07:30:43Galoisselect+menu for 10 seconds should kill it in hardware
07:31:01Galoisif not, something's wrong :/
07:31:23claymnow it's endlessly resetting
07:31:27claymThis is magic
07:31:32sharpeat least you're somewhere :)
07:31:36claymKinda funny to watch though. lol
07:32:02sharpetry to put it in disk mode from there...
07:32:17claymHAH! Got it!
07:37:42sharpeahah, i fixed the problem...
07:37:51speacial_ednicely done
07:37:59speacial_edthats why we all love you sharpe
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07:38:26speacial_edi mean, besides the fact ive said like 2 words to you before, and besides that know nothing of you
07:38:31sharpeyay for correct keyboard input for the c64 emulator
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07:39:36sharpenow i can do like
07:39:38sharpeother things
07:39:44sharpeinstead of working on that problem
07:41:41speacial_edwoohoo for like other things
07:41:54sharpeand it's realatively emulating it at a decent speed
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07:42:20speacial_edwell thats swell
07:42:22speacial_edi suppose
07:42:30speacial_edi have no clue what c64 is
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07:43:11speacial_edwoohoo for my awesome guessing skills
07:46:53sharpei should add a setting for the frame rate, and for the scrolling sensitivity
07:47:14sharpeto the configuration...
07:49:18ninowhmm all my artists show as F00, F01, etc.
07:49:46sharpeyou're using the "ipod_control" folder, aren't you?
07:49:53sharpeor, the ones stored in there.
07:50:28sharpeitunes does that
07:50:55ninowhmm should i drag and drop my songs on there into a new folder?
07:50:58sharpeyou'll either have to use the tagcache, or copy over all your music folders, unmangled
07:52:01ninowwhat is the tagcache?
07:52:17sharpedatabase of the id3 tags of all of your music
07:54:52speacial_edninow, go to general settings, playback, force tagcache update
07:55:03sharpebut i'm not one to ask about it, i don't use it.
07:55:40ninowyeah i'm following something on the website
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07:55:44speacial_edi usually boot to regular firmware for my music and such, but only because of the EQs
07:55:56ninowi feel the hard drive spinning, how long should it take?
07:56:08sharpedepends on how much music you have
07:56:20sharpejust be sure you don't turn off your player :)
07:56:23speacial_ednot too long no matter what though
07:56:36ninowi only have about 1000 songs
07:56:36Slasheriamiconn: in fact yes, tagcache has a history table in memory that makes the updates usually quite fast even without dircache
07:56:51speacial_edi have 1000 something too, didnt take more than 3 minutes
07:57:03ninowand this will allow me to see the tags?
07:57:14sharpebrowse music by the tags
07:57:40sharpeof course, it may be hell if they're not all tagged.
07:59:18speacial_edhe says morning and im about to hit the sack
07:59:42sharpethat's due to timezone differences.
07:59:55speacial_edi figured as much
08:00:05speacial_edno, actaully, i thought he was a VAMPIRE!!!
08:00:12speacial_edwho has a love for all things rockbox
08:00:37speacial_edthat is right, isnt it?
08:00:45amiconnSlasheri: It still takes quite some time to build the full cache on archos, but it's bearable.(with my ~3000 songs, the scan took 17 minutes, and the commit took ~5 minutes)
08:00:55sharpeno, he's on the polyphasic sleep cycle. every few hours is morning to him.
08:01:15speacial_edok, easy on your fancy words here, its late for me
08:01:23sharpetis what it's called...
08:02:04speacial_eddo you guys know where i could download some EQ presets... i really dont feel like making my own
08:02:27ninowk got it, thanks again
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08:02:52sharpeyou could just, load up winamp and mess around with the eq settings until you find one you like...
08:02:57sharpeor foobar2000
08:03:02sharpeor windows media player
08:03:07sharpeor itunes...
08:03:14sharpeor your media player of choice.
08:03:35sharpethen just create a preset on your player with those band settings
08:03:49speacial_edblah i feared that was coming
08:03:54speacial_edfine, ill stop being lazy
08:04:13ninowi just got a pause in one of the songs, for like a second
08:04:17ninowis that preventable?
08:04:23sharpewere you scrolling a lot?
08:04:26speacial_edare you scrolling threw songs
08:04:44ninowoh, yea
08:04:55sharpewhat player do you have again?
08:05:03ninowipod, 4th gen
08:06:21sharpeif i remember correctly, it's because of the button driver, for lack of a better term, throwing or calling interrupts for each time the wheel is scrolled...
08:06:28sharpeif you can get anything out of that.
08:06:42sharpeand that's a lot of times when you scroll fast...
08:07:35Slasheriamiconn: it would be possible still to make the update little faster by using the same directory recursion mechanism as dircache uses, and passing those direct fat entry pointers to open
08:08:32 Join xenyz [0] (
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08:09:12xenyzexcellent project, really impressed with it. one quick question: is it possible to view id3 tags in the playlist? i'm using the tagcache
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08:11:24sharpenow i get to figure out how to emulate the c64's tape or disk drive.
08:12:17ninowhow do i exit out of a game?
08:12:28sharpepress select and menu
08:12:39ninowwon't that reset it?
08:12:47sharpenot if you just press it, and not hold it
08:14:15amiconnSlasheri: I discovered a bug yesterday: Did a forced rebuild (with all tagcache_*.tcd deleted before), then rebooted. On iriver & ipod, after the commit finished and the browser appeared, I got a splash saying "Couldn't load codec: /.rockbox/codecs/mpa.codec". After that the tagcache told me that it wasn't ready; it took another reboot to make it work.
08:14:20amiconnThis doesn't happen on archos; after the commit on boot the tagcache is immediately usable there.
08:14:27 Quit BHSPitLappy (Connection timed out)
08:15:30amiconnAlso, if that happens, and you try to switch back from tagcache to file view, no files are displayed
08:15:44amiconnThis all is with dircache & tagcache-in-ram disabled
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08:19:08Aveyou know guys, rockbox rocks!
08:19:16speacial_edill second that
08:19:42Avebtw, I noticed that rb uses common current draw figures for all models that dont have special numbers in powermgmt
08:20:03speacial_edgood night everybody, or morning, or afternoon, wherever you are
08:20:14 Quit speacial_ed ("Bye")
08:20:24ninowso can i now just drag and drop files onto my ipod?
08:20:56ninowi can't find where my files are to begin with
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08:21:19xenyzis it possible to use playlist with the tagcache?
08:21:21ninowyou mentioned a "ipod_control" but when i go to my ipod, i don't see that
08:21:28sharpeit's a hidden file
08:22:03ninowoh, so should i edit those songs through itunes?
08:22:40Slasheriamiconn: hmm, that is really weird
08:22:45ninowand then i guess create a new folder and start adding new songs from now on?
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08:23:13Paul_The_NerdOkay, TagCache *definitely* needs a means by which to tell it to overlook some folders.
08:23:28sharpewait, create a new folder where?
08:23:29Slasheriamiconn: probably it tries to allocate from dircache buffer which does not exist or something like that.. i will debug it soon
08:23:52Paul_The_NerdSlasheri: TagCache Commit takes forever with 46,000 files. =/
08:23:55ninowon the ipod
08:24:04ninowor should i just add folder by folder of my artists?
08:24:06Slasheriamiconn: with dircache enabled, building tatgcache should not require boots at all
08:24:13sharpeit's really up to you
08:24:19SlasheriPaul_The_Nerd: uh..
08:24:19ninowlike say I have all my artists in a folder labeled "music" should i just drag that over?
08:24:28sharpeif you wish
08:24:52Paul_The_NerdSlasheri: I wasn't thinking, and put the High Voltage SID collection on there, without disabling it first... 1/10 still. For quite a while.
08:25:00SlasheriPaul_The_Nerd: yeah, the current unique mechanism is a way too slow for that
08:25:06amiconnSlasheri: Yeah, I know. Still, I don't want to set the ram away permanently. I don't use tagcache that often, and you know that I'm not a friend of dirache...
08:25:34Slasheriamiconn: hehe :)
08:26:11Paul_The_NerdToo bad there's not a method to abort during "Committing TagCache"
08:27:26SlasheriPaul_The_Nerd: aborting it would make the tagcache unusable and it needs to be rebuilt again..
08:27:32Slasheribut maybe we could add some way to do that
08:27:45Paul_The_NerdSlasheri: Yes, but aborting would also let me just cancel it entirely by deleting the files
08:27:51Paul_The_NerdAs it is, the only choice I have is the reset button.
08:27:52xenyzok i made a feature request. thanks a lot guys
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08:29:02amiconnSlasheri: Btw, why does the necessity of reboots for a tagcache rebuild depend on dircache? I thought the commit needs quite some ram for sorting, and that's why it can only be done at boot
08:29:03Paul_The_NerdI think holding Stop for a set period should abort, and then it should require a forced rebuild before it's used again, or something.
08:29:36Slasheriamiconn: it can steal the ram from dircache, that's the reason :)
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08:30:08Slasherior it could steal also tagcache ram if tagcache is loaded in ram.. but at the moment that requires also dircache to be enabled
08:30:36amiconnWiki spam alert....
08:31:29Slasheriand basically dircache ram should be always enough, as long as tags are not longer than the filenames itself
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08:34:35sharpeohes noes.
08:36:27amiconnSlasheri: So basically the tagcache commit wouldn't require a reboot on archos if it's allowed to stop playback?
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08:43:43Slasheriamiconn: yes, true
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09:01:13amiconnreboot, brb
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09:03:29schwabwhats up
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09:06:46*Paul_The_Nerd has decided too many things are non-interruptible.
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09:10:20sharpetime to see if joystick input will work...
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09:13:38schwabcan anyone help me out with my WPS a little, i'm just trying to move the album art to the bottom right:
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09:15:03Paul_The_Nerdschwab: Album Art isn't a feature of CVS Rockbox yet, so a lot of people here aren't even necessarily going to know how it works.
09:15:12schwabah right
09:15:50Paul_The_NerdBesides, can't you just give it an X and Y coordinate?
09:15:52schwabwell where can i find info on coordinates, i think thats all i need to learn about
09:16:17Paul_The_NerdCoordinates are just the number of pixels horizontally (X) and vertically (Y) from the top left of the screen
09:17:12schwabhmmm ok. i need to find my screens dimensions then
09:17:44Paul_The_Nerdschwab: 220x176 if you're an iPod Photo or H3x0
09:18:07schwabya h340, thanks
09:18:39VoltageXPaul_The_Nerd: has HCl been active at all today?
09:18:53schwabone day i'm going to create a beautiful wps that everyone will want to use
09:19:04JdGordonnot if it has AA on it..
09:19:18VoltageXJdGordon: anti aliasing?
09:19:24LinusNAlbum Art
09:19:24JdGordonablum art
09:19:37schwabi'm just messing around/learning now
09:19:39Paul_The_NerdVoltageX: Haven't seen him. Haven't been around much myself though
09:20:01VoltageXas you know, I've been on the edge of my seat waiting for DUMB
09:21:49ravonVoltageX: It almost worked yesterday.
09:22:05ravonCompiled but couldn't load modules :)
09:23:00***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
09:23:59RedBrevaQuick question: The 'Browse Firmwares' menu option is flagged as MASCODEC only in the manual code, but surely that's wrong... don't all platforms have that option?
09:24:46 Quit Yopsolo ()
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09:25:33sharpesomebody, pick a combination of keys to switch between input modes.
09:25:46Paul_The_NerdRedBreva: Really it's only useful on the Archoses as it's one of the means of loading their retail firmware I believe. It can also work on the H120 and H320 series as a means of loading different builds of Rockbox, but isn't functioning on the iPods, and causes problems on the X5
09:26:00LinusNsharpe: alt-k?
09:26:08sharpefor the c64 emulator :D
09:26:35LinusNwhich target?
09:26:40Paul_The_Nerdsharpe: Menu+Play on iPods, Play+Navi on the H120. Don't know what's valid on other targets.
09:26:42RedBrevaOK.. did not know that ;-) Does it browse root or .rockbox? or both!!
09:26:51Paul_The_NerdRedBreva: No clue.
09:27:00sharpeeh, i've got it now.
09:27:14sharpelinus, have you seen what the emulator looks like so far?
09:27:30RedBrevaOK, anyone any idea where the code is for that option?
09:27:50B4gderwe want to see horizon demos in the C64 emu! ;-)
09:28:01LinusNB4gder: :-)
09:28:02Paul_The_NerdRedBreva: I'm *guessing* it browses in the Root, since until recently that's where the rockbox binary *had* to be
09:28:04B4gderanother way to get more of our code on target ;-)
09:28:36LinusNB4gder: i don't have the source code for those anymore :-)
09:28:42sharpe is the latest one i've got.
09:28:44B4gdertrue, me neither
09:29:13LinusNsharpe: woooo
09:29:24Bg3rB4gder LinusN disk crashes ?
09:29:41B4gdermore like many years gone by
09:29:56B4gderthe last C64 demos we made was early 90s
09:30:15B4gderfloppy disk time
09:30:22LinusNBg3r: well, i think i have the source for "the last traktor iii" somewhere on a 1541 disk
09:31:49Paul_The_NerdI take it you guys went by different names back then?
09:32:01B4gderI was Bagder back then too
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09:32:12B4gderLinus was Bogaloo though
09:32:51Paul_The_NerdI was about to ask who Boogaloo was
09:33:06B4gderso four of us in Horizon are/were Rockbox committers
09:33:30*Paul_The_Nerd watches "the last traktor iii"
09:33:33ravonHorizon? The swedish group?
09:33:41B4gderravon: yeps
09:33:55ravonWasn't Gaijin (Thomas Norrg?rd) in it? :)
09:34:05B4gderwell, Horizon on C64
09:35:58sharpeokay, i now have it able to switch between inputs...
09:36:20LinusNwow, tinysid is really tiny
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09:36:32sharpehow tiny?
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09:36:46LinusN−−-> <−−−− that tiny
09:36:53B4gderthat's tiny!
09:37:25Bg3rPaul_The_Nerd what are you watching it on ?
09:37:59Paul_The_NerdBg3r: Just a random C64 emulator
09:38:18Paul_The_NerdCCS64 v3.0 Beta 1.9 or something
09:38:27*Paul_The_Nerd notes there are far too many numbers in that name.
09:38:38*amiconn has quite some ideas how to speed up lcd updates on X5
09:38:51amiconnToo bad I have no such beast for testing...
09:39:07LinusNamiconn: it looks like the lcd update is already too fast on x5
09:39:22LinusNi see reports about artifacts
09:39:22sharpeanyone know what key added to the buffer to act as the backspace for the c64?
09:39:26amiconnDo you mean the broken partial updates?
09:39:34sharpeer, what key is...
09:39:36amiconnThey aren't too fast
09:39:45LinusNoh, just my lame theory them
09:39:52amiconnB4gder's optiomisation breaks partial updates
09:40:01amiconnI mentioned that multiple times here
09:40:08LinusNi've been away
09:40:12B4gderwell I've been away
09:40:22amiconn(and also the fact that it only gives the desired speedup in 50% of all cases)
09:40:30peturwe noticed :)
09:40:49B4gderwhat is the "desired" speedup?
09:41:04amiconnThe speedup resulting from reading longwords.
09:41:34amiconnIf the start address isn't aligned, this is even a bit slower than just reading words
09:42:12B4gdershould we adjust the test_fps plugin to test for that too?
09:43:29B4gderbut anyway
09:43:35B4gderwhat's the bug then?
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09:44:57amiconnB4gder: You even mentioned the bug in lcd_write_data()...
09:45:11amiconnYou're writing one word too much when count is odd,
09:45:12B4gderthat it does an extra pixel?
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09:45:43mikolaspreglow, are you working on arm optimizations?
09:45:43amiconnbut lcd_update_rect() uses the 'update window' setting of the lcd controller
09:46:10amiconnso the extra pixel ends up at the start of the next row, shifting that row one pixel to the right.
09:46:18amiconn...shifting the next row one more etc
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09:46:32B4gderso I guess getting back to the former 16bits is a good idea
09:46:43amiconnit's slower
09:46:46amiconnYou need proper leading/trailing word handling
09:46:57amiconnAs mentioned, I have a number of ideas
09:47:12B4gderI see! ;-)
09:47:24amiconnThe first would be an lcd_write_data() in asm, handling things properly, and also utilising burst mode
09:47:37amiconnThis should be quite fast even with the framebuffer in sdram
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09:47:50Yopsolohey, sorry to interrupt your conversation, but can anyone tell me what is the best between an ipod video and an iriver h320??
09:48:02B4gderamiconn: if you write a blind fix I'll test and debug it in my end
09:48:14amiconnThen, I would probably switch to the swapped rgb format in the framebuffer, which would allow for more efficient 16->18bit conversion as we go
09:48:26peturYopsolo: depends what you're going to use it for
09:48:29Paul_The_NerdYopsolo: It kinda depends on what you want out of a player
09:48:42amiconn(same framebuffer format as colour ipods)
09:48:53peturwow - I was faster than Paul_The_Nerd :P
09:49:07Paul_The_Nerdpetur: Was distracted by shiny raytracing.
09:49:11Yopsolopetur: i want the device that offer the best mod/hacking feature
09:49:37Yopsoloand the best sound quality
09:49:42*petur is installing DX9 to be able to run the emulator to be able to watch the demo :)
09:49:49Paul_The_NerdYopsolo: Again, what do you want out of the *hardware.* Rockbox runs on both, so it's hardware differences.
09:50:12amiconnLinusN, B4gder: Speaking about efficiency - I took a quick glance at the pcf driver for iaudio. It uses the generic i2c driver, calling functions for every tiny action
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09:50:28amiconn...and it's also called in the button tick as on H300 (!!)
09:50:36LinusNamiconn: yes
09:50:43amiconnI expect it to eat even more cpu time than on H300 then
09:50:58peturYopsolo: H340 has recording and FM radio, usbotg (no don't ask), and needs no dock or adapter to connect the cables
09:50:59amiconnYou could do a quick test:
09:50:59Paul_The_NerdYopsolo: For example, the H340 I believe has the USB on the go port etc, while the iPod 5G has a bigger screen, touch wheel, etc.
09:51:17VoltageXiPods = evil
09:51:25Paul_The_Nerdpetur: Hehehe. I saw mine on my screen first. That was a tie.
09:51:37VoltageX+ H3x0 = bulletproof
09:51:52scorche<petur> Yopsolo: H340 has recording and FM radio, usbotg (no don't ask), and needs no dock or adapter to connect the cables
09:51:52scorche<amiconn> You could do a quick test:
09:51:52scorche<Paul_The_Nerd> Yopsolo: For example, the H340 I believe has the USB on the go port etc, while the iPod 5G has a bigger screen, touch wheel, etc.
09:51:57scorchePaul_The_Nerd loses
09:51:58Yopsoloso h320 is more "versatil"??
09:52:14VoltageXa friend of mine was running with one in his pocket, it fell out, got drop kicked, still works
09:52:20peturif you need those features, yes
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09:52:34peturVoltageX: pure luck
09:52:35amiconnSwicth CPU to 11MHz. First, run a plain test_fps. Note the values. Then wait for the HD to spin down, start test_fps, and *while the disk is spinning up*, switch on hold. Let it run, note the values, compare with first run and cry....
09:52:40Yopsolothx for the info
09:52:45Yopsoloill think about that
09:53:03VoltageXpetur: pure iRiver
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09:53:31peturVoltageX: would have been worse if the disk was spinning
09:53:42amiconn(when hold is on, the pcf adc isn't polled)
09:54:39VoltageXpetur: it was
09:54:44LinusNamiconn: i know that the pcf x5 driver performance is bad
09:55:03mikolaslinusn, which model do you have?
09:55:07LinusNbut it works, and that's why i did it that way as a start
09:55:07mikolasof x5
09:55:27LinusNplain x5 20gb
09:55:43mikolasi have 60gb model and the battery life is bad, even with original firmware
09:55:52mikolasjust short of 7 hours on rockbox, 8 on the original
09:56:29mikolasis there a known problem with the 60gb model? i think the battery life should be around 14-15 hours...
09:56:55amiconnLinusN: I expect the x5 pcf driver performance to be significantly *worse* than the H300 pcf driver performance used to be
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09:57:17amiconnI've now committed my optimised version, it's working fine...
09:57:43LinusNthe x5 pcf driver should be able to use the internal controller
09:58:19sharpeokay, backspace works.
10:00:17amiconnLinusN: Btw, could you check whether the pcf i2c speed is correct on H300 now, i.e. close to 400kHz at 45MHz and 124MHz?
10:00:36amiconnI know that it's slower (~200kHz) at 11MHz
10:01:21Arcainusi tried to load rockbox onto my 2G nano ipod...but when i tried to run the "ipod_fw -g nano -o rockboot.bin -i apple_os.bin bootloader-nano.bin" and then ran the "ipodpatcher -w N rockboot.bin" it said that the partition size is too big
10:02:36peturbtw, amiconn, congratulations on the optimisation work. 320kbps VBR mp3 now play with a boost of 5-8%
10:02:36Paul_The_NerdArcainus: What exactly did it say?
10:03:35ArcainusPaul_The_Nerd, that the "firmware" its trying to upload to the ipod is too big for the partition on the ipod
10:03:50amiconnpetur: What boost ratio did you observe before?
10:04:28peturcan't remember ;)
10:04:55Paul_The_NerdArcainus: Okay, so then A) How big is rockboot.bin, and B) Did you have iPodLinux installed before you started the Rockbox installation process by chance?
10:05:11*amiconn just had an idea
10:05:32amiconnLinusN: The mysterious current draw on H300 - could that be caused by the isp1362?
10:05:59amiconnI mean, we don't initialise CS3 (do we?), and CS3 is shared with a gpio pin...
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10:06:49 Quit B4gder ("time to say moo")
10:06:54petursomebody already measured the usbotg output, at least it's not supplying power
10:06:58LinusNpossibly, if the gpio is an input
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10:07:58ArcainusPaul_The_Nerd, this is on windows :)
10:08:04peturamiconn: the isp1362 goes into sleep mode automatically (as a matter of fact, I'm failing at waking it up I think)
10:08:17Paul_The_NerdArcainus: Umm... That doesn't answer either of my questions though.
10:08:57peturamiconn: you even need to configure it for it to wake up on /CS
10:09:24peturbut the datasheet is very unclear on this whole matter
10:09:39amiconnpetur: I'm not speaking about waking it up correctly. Maybe the pin is floating, or sth like that
10:10:16amiconnEven if it doesn't wake up correctly, it might still cause current draw if it receives 'unexpected' input patterns
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10:11:02amiconnI mean to remember that usb host mode draws quite some power in retailos. Maybe that's not just the current provided to the slave...
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10:11:54peturI can commit proper CS3 init tonight if it turns out to be a bug rather than a feature
10:12:01ArcainusPaul_The_Nerd, i followed this
10:12:53Paul_The_NerdArcainus: So, you never had iPodLinux installed on your Nano? And again, how big is your rockboot.bin file?
10:13:23peturLinusN: I've updated the ida file quite a bit regarding isp1362, want to have a look?
10:13:44peturI'm wondering if the chip shouldn't be configured during bootup
10:13:58ArcainusPaul_The_Nerd, i'll have to redo it here at work...i did it at home so i cant remeber the file size
10:14:01Arcainushold a few
10:14:56Paul_The_NerdArcainus: You could always just right click on the file and get properties...
10:15:39ArcainusPaul_The_Nerd, its at home ;P
10:15:56Paul_The_NerdArcainus: Oh, you don't have access to it right now, gotcha.
10:15:57Arcainusbut i can quickly recreate it here
10:17:42Paul_The_NerdArcainus: The other thing, when you just run ipodpatch N, the first of the two partitions should be 78.4, this is correct?
10:18:35Arcainusyes @ paul
10:19:14Paul_The_NerdArcainus: Okay, then there's something odd going on somewhere in the process, as ipodpatcher will write a 78.4 mb file back without complaining about size, and your rockboot.bin should be in the single digits if I recall.
10:19:23ravonwow. The iAudio port really chews up battery power.
10:21:49Arcainusim following this installation step by step
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10:25:23 Part schwab
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10:26:06Arcainusi think i missed a step
10:26:52sharpei should be sleeping
10:27:06sharpeat least since four to five hours ago.
10:28:47Arcainusah ok
10:28:56Arcainusnow i get an error while rebooting
10:29:36Arcainusrockbox error : -1 or its a -l
10:29:52Paul_The_NerdArcainus: That means you haven't extracted a daily or CVS build yet.
10:30:03Arcainusoh right
10:30:12Arcainusi formatted the other partition
10:30:16Paul_The_NerdBRB, windows is doing that whole "I gotta reboot" thing
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10:30:21Arcainusforgot i erased the .rockbox again
10:32:46Arcainusworking :)
10:32:56Arcainuscant believe i skipped the one step
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10:36:11Paul_The_NerdAlright, much better
10:36:27Paul_The_NerdArcainus: So, you get it sorted?
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10:37:10sharpeugh, tired. i'm done for a few hours, bye everyone.
10:39:51Arcainusyeah, thanks Paul
10:41:33*LinusN *loves* the sid codec
10:42:03peturLinusN: I've updated the ida file quite a bit regarding isp1362, want to have a look?
10:42:16LinusNno time right now...
10:42:55peturme neither
10:43:36peturbut I guessed you would be online today so I put the file ready this morning ;)
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10:50:27 Nick linuxstb_ is now known as linuxstb (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
10:52:38linuxstbIs anyone tempted to break the feature freeze and commit the sid codec for 3.0 ?
10:53:01VoltageXif I had an account, I would
10:53:02*Paul_The_Nerd thinks you should come up with some plan for track lengths first.
10:53:41Paul_The_NerdAnd a plan for not making my TagCache cry. That too
10:53:56VoltageXPaul_The_Nerd: have you looked at the HVSC database?
10:55:39VoltageXso SIDs will break TagCache?
10:55:48Paul_The_NerdThey don't break it
10:56:01Paul_The_NerdBut TagCache doesn't play well with 45,000 files.
10:56:20B4gderand we appeared on LWN again =>
10:56:21Paul_The_NerdIt's just quite slow
10:56:53VoltageXoh crap, I have about that
10:56:53LinusNthe sid emulation needs some work on the filter and modulation parts...
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10:57:21LinusNthe filter is actually quite good, but it needs some tuning
10:58:36VoltageXB4gder: cease and desist, shit...
10:59:39LinusNi just love the clarity of the tinysid source code
11:00:00VoltageXB4gder: I could live without Jewels, if someone came up with a colour Tetris clone, although that's just as likely to get a C&D
11:00:29B4gderthey couldn't make us remove jewels
11:00:39linuxstbPaul_The_Nerd: I have a plan for track lengths. Just no code.
11:00:41B4gderthey could _possibly_ make us do the jewels look a little different
11:01:10B4gderbut they are not copied from the game they did
11:01:43VoltageXhow could I make CVS redownload any files that are changed compared to current CVS?
11:01:47VoltageXI botched a patch
11:02:18B4gderVoltageX: I usually do 'cvs diff -u | patch -p0 -R' to revert back to CVS status
11:02:45B4gderbut you can also just remove the files and cvs up again
11:02:45linuxstbOr just delete any files you want to revert back to cvs, and then do "cvs update"
11:03:42VoltageXlinuxstb: if B4gder's commands don't work, then I'll try that
11:04:03VoltageXB4gder: does that command produce output?
11:04:27B4gderit says "patching ..." for each file it changes
11:06:31VoltageXdone, thanks
11:16:17VoltageXI don't know if anyone replied to this question: what file is the version string that's displayed on rockbox startup kept in?
11:17:14linuxstbVoltageX: It's in the Makefile in your build directory - the VERSION variable.
11:18:02VoltageXyay now I can make Rockbox say "RockBox CVS - Voltage Edition"
11:18:09 Part Paul_The_Nerd
11:18:19VoltageXI scared paul away
11:18:31*petur runs off crying
11:19:10linuxstbIf you want to change it permanently, edit tools/configure - that's the script that creates that Makefile. Otherwise, you will need to edit it every time you run configure.
11:20:01VoltageXlinuxstb: I only want to be egotistical for a little while
11:20:42peturnext question: how do I change the bootloader?
11:23:04***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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11:31:10Slasherihmm, i just got an idea how to make the tagcache array unique checking algorithm much faster.. trying that now :)
11:34:18 Quit quobl (Remote closed the connection)
11:34:58Slasheriusing crc32 checksums should make the commit about 90% faster
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11:36:08amiconnSlasheri: Sure crc32 will make it faster on archos as well?
11:36:33amiconnAlso, pleez keep code size down (there is a space-saving crc32 in one of the flash plugins)
11:38:18linuxstbIs there still old tagdb code in Rockbox to be removed?
11:38:46Slasheriamiconn: yes
11:39:03Slasheriamiconn: ok, i will use that code to generate it
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11:40:02Slasheriamiconn: and especially with huge databases, like tagcache with the hvsc it should make committing much faster.. (but not searches itself)
11:40:04*amiconn wants to get back rombox for fm/v2 :/
11:40:31amiconn...even though I don't have an fm/v2
11:40:41peturdo those targets have recording?
11:40:51linuxstbSlasheri: What do you think about suppressing the track number when viewing the full "Songs" list? i.e. only display it when in one of the album views?
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11:42:09Slasherilinuxstb: yes, that sounds like a good idea
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11:48:56Slasheriamiconn: hmm, that code size will be little problematic in future, as tagcache still lacks many features required for the runtime db for example
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11:53:56t0masa littlebit later than planned... but what are the compiler paths for the new server?
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12:03:12t0maslostlogic: never mind :)
12:03:13t0masefnet-math.org2238119( 115 123)
12:03:17t0masit's working
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12:13:00amiconnpetur: ?
12:13:16amiconn[11:40:42] <petur> do those targets have recording?
12:13:31peturAGC will add some more code ;)
12:14:35peturtime to eat something - bbl
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12:20:55 Part Paul_The_Nerd
12:21:14AveSlasheri: you around?
12:21:48preglowtwisted`: no, i don't make my own sid tunes
12:21:49twisted`pc gone nuts
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12:25:38Bg3rXavierGr wow, h300 remote ? :)
12:25:51XavierGrMy cousin is here!!
12:25:55muesli__XavierGr won in the lottery?
12:26:09muesli__iriver addicted? ;)
12:26:16XavierGrsomething like that :)
12:26:32wehnit's the fruity dap smell of iriver
12:26:37wehn(smell the ports on the bottom
12:27:10XavierGrDAP perfume!
12:27:26wehnThere was a huge thread on misticriver about it
12:27:55XavierGrNow we must build something ala Tower of Rockbox (Devcon Pic). But I am not sure if they will manage to stand!
12:29:04XavierGrI am gonna test an H300 LCD-remote to an H140 unit
12:29:16preglowwould musepack seeking be affected by the feature freeze? :>
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12:29:21wehn (here we go)
12:31:17Moospreglow: noooo, please do :P
12:32:16Moosit's more fixing the seeking
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12:36:31preglowi'll check it out
12:37:47XavierGrH300 LCD-remote buttons are completely f*cked-up in the default iRiver firmware. Tough on rockbox buttons seem almost okay (like the H300)
12:37:58XavierGrThat's for H100 unit
12:37:59Moospreglow: you rocks !
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12:40:55Bg3rXavierGr that's because the h300's remote button resistor network is very different than the h100's remote one
12:41:39VoltageXtagcaching ~40gb here... pity the debug tagcache viewer doesn't work
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13:03:36amiconnXavierGr: Remote detection in rockbox works identical for H1x0 and H300
13:04:07amiconnI bet the H1x0 iriver firmware doesn't care, so that's why it screws up with a H300 remote
13:04:14preglowanyone know if it's much work to implement optical recording?
13:04:27*B4gder has no idea
13:04:31DomasoFan86hello. My Iriver h 340 is frozen and i don't know to reset it taht it works again. the drive is still spinning but i couldn't turn it off. It died during a test recording
13:04:39preglowi'd love to see it for 3.0
13:04:43amiconnXavierGr: You said all remotes tick on the H1x0s, but not on the H300 (with my fix)?
13:04:51preglowi wonder if i've got any means to test it
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13:05:33amiconnpreglow: I would need an optical cable from standard toslink to iriver mini, then I could test
13:05:47amiconnI have no idea where to buy such a cable...
13:05:55preglowi have one
13:05:58preglowtwo, as a matter of fact
13:06:10*preglow checks if his mainboard has optical out/in
13:06:15VoltageXDomasoFan86: there\s a little reset button you can put a paperclip in
13:06:17preglowyou rarely get those cables these days
13:06:22preglownow you need to buy a tos/jack converter
13:06:25preglowthey cost nothing
13:06:57preglownow by golly
13:07:05preglowmy mainboards got an optical port
13:07:09VoltageXamiconn: you talking about mini-usb?
13:07:11preglowi might be able to fix this after all, then
13:09:02amiconnVoltageX: No, mini-toslink (afaik it looks like a 3.5mm heaphone plug, just w/o metal rings)
13:09:30amiconnpreglow: I have no optical on any pc, but I have a dvd player w/ optical out (standard toslink)
13:09:43amiconnI used that to test s/pdif recording on archos
13:09:50peturpreglow: some/most code in recording only knows about mic and line-in, this will need fixing :(
13:09:56amiconn(with a selfmade optical->electrical converter)
13:10:17amiconnpetur: That's not correct. recording.c does know about spdif
13:10:29amiconn...since archos has s/pdif in & out
13:10:54peturah, right, it's the parts for the UDA
13:11:02peturit's ok then
13:11:43amiconnAfaik the UDA isn't involved in s/pdif in & out. That's handled by the coldfire itself
13:12:19petursorry for the confusion
13:12:21DomasoFan86does someone know a bug where the recorder (iriver h 340) frezes when you record something? (build from 20060415). It freeces only when you press the stop button. now i am not able to turn off the player
13:12:43linuxstbApologies for the FAQ, but does anyone know the samplerates and bitdepths the H140 s/pdif input can handle?
13:12:48 Quit darkless (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
13:13:04LinusN20 bits, 96kHz afaik
13:13:15peturDomasoFan86: it worked ok here last time I checked (this weekend)
13:13:26preglowbut ok
13:13:32preglowi'll have a look at optical recording today, then
13:13:37preglowi refuse to believe it's very difficult
13:14:03VoltageXamiconn: do you mean *with* metal rings? i.e. what the Hx00 remotes use
13:14:23peturDomasoFan86: maybe chkdsk your player?
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13:15:26DomasoFan86I use a voice file too. maybe this kills the player.
13:15:52peturah, I think that's already on the bug racker
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13:16:40DomasoFan86how i can turn off the player that i have access to it again? cause the hd is spinning all the time now :-)
13:16:46preglowbut the spdif diagnostic screen should work, yes?
13:17:00peturDomasoFan86: reset it
13:17:30amiconnlinuxstb: Unlike playback, the s/pdif in should be able to handle all standard samplerates
13:18:08linuxstbamiconn: Thanks.
13:19:16amiconn...because the s/pdif in syncs to the input signal.
13:20:20linuxstbAnyone know anything about the iaudio G3? It seems a reasonable 1GB flash player with FM that works from a single AA battery.
13:20:30VoltageXcan ROLO load the firmware straight from the iriver site's zipfiles?
13:21:02linuxstbVoltageX: No, ROLO can only load Rockbox, not the iriver firmware.
13:22:09VoltageXlinuxstb: can I have multiple rockbox versions on the one player, then?
13:22:51ravonNeat. My player hung up when I switched songs.
13:22:59preglowspdif out works in linux
13:23:05linuxstbIn theory - but they will either need to use the same set of plugins/codecs etc, or you will need to patch Rockbox to use different .rockbox folders.
13:23:08***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
13:24:01linuxstbAlso, they would share the same settings sector on disk (unless you patched that as well to use different settings for different versions).
13:24:50ravonAre the nifty bass effects in the original iAudio firmware proprietary algorithms, or are they hardware based?
13:26:11wehnhmm. about the H300 optimisation..
13:26:30wehnhaven't seen any change in the battery meter's prognostication.
13:26:40wehntrying a battery_bench now.
13:27:35preglowis 96khz possible with spdif?
13:27:45preglowi thought 48khz was the max, but that was perhaps adat
13:29:12VoltageXhmm sparks from the iriver mini usb probably isn't a good thing
13:29:27wehnhah, saw that yesterday..
13:29:38wehnwhile charging and pluggin in usb.
13:30:20preglowbut anyway, i won't care with spdif in now unless it's 3.0 material
13:30:24preglowis it?
13:30:26VoltageXonly small sparks, but still visible
13:30:50VoltageXis the iRiver host usb port usable under rockbox?
13:30:50amiconnwehn: Imho it doesn't make sense to put effort into the runtime prediction before the mysterious power drain issue is solved
13:31:11peturVoltageX: not (yet)
13:31:30VoltageXpetur: not even debug readings?
13:31:48wehnamiconn: what i meant was, I thought the run time prediction might show improvement. I don't know if actual runtime has changed yet.
13:31:59peturVoltageX: unable to access the chip's registers until now
13:33:06peturand analysing the iriver fw has revealed some things already but it seams not everything :(
13:33:36peturseems even
13:33:45wehnVoltageX, the sparks are a known phenomenon on misticriver. some people report being zapped with no ill effect.
13:33:47linuxstbpreglow: IMO, spdif should be in 3.0 if you can do it.
13:34:00amiconnB4gder: I hope to find the time to take a shot on the X5 lcd driver tonight
13:34:30Mooswee !
13:34:34preglowdoesn't look like it's in the agenda for either 3.0 or 3.1
13:34:43VoltageXwehn: I can report that too, ouch
13:34:45amiconnI hope an X5 tester will be around then...
13:35:00Moos: )
13:35:04amiconnpreglow: I would consider s/pdif recording a bug fix.
13:35:16VoltageXwehn: I wouldn't want to do the battery-on-tongue trick with the usb-to-mini cable
13:35:21amiconnI mean, 2.5 does s/pdif recording on archos
13:35:33VoltageXit seems to be live even without a device hanging off it
13:35:41amiconn...and the consensus is that all features that work in 2.5 should work in 3.0
13:35:48linuxstbpreglow: I agree with amiconn - it comes under "core functionality".
13:36:07VoltageXamiconn: not breaking anything that already works...
13:36:09wehnVoltageX, lol !
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13:39:53preglowthen i'll give it a try later
13:40:22preglowit doesn't i'm able to change the sample rate of my spdif output, though
13:40:25preglowoh anyway
13:40:50XavierGramiconn: you called?
13:41:06 Join darkless [0] (
13:42:13XavierGrI just said that all my remotes tick under an H115 and an H140 (w/o reduce option) but with your fix in H300 I can't hear any ticks (as normal) (again w/o reduce option, no need for it in the H300)
13:45:27 Part DomasoFan86
13:51:52linuxstbpreglow: Did you make any progress on the libmad issues (decoding last frame, and gapless after seeking)? If not, then I may have a look at it.
13:57:28amiconnXavierGr: At least one user reported (on the ml iirc) that H300 ticks for him w/o 'reduce ticking'
13:58:00peturwhat's the status of AAC? is there hope for realtime playback?
13:58:26ashridahpetur: sure. overclock your player. just attach a gigantic heatsink
13:58:40linuxstbThe ffmpeg project are working on a new AAC decoder - I think we are basically waiting for them, so we can abandon libfaad.
13:59:41petursomebody gave me a bunch of M4P files and I would hate to transcode or ask the guy to rerip them (recordings)
13:59:44linuxstbWork also needs to be done on the mp4/m4a container format parser (libm4a in CVS) - that can be done now, but I don't think anyone is working on it.
14:00:41RedBrevahow easy is it to change the location of the tmp directory? (Debian/VMWare) I have very little free space on hda1, but quite a lot on hdb1
14:00:52VoltageXis that a heatsink in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?
14:00:56ravonRedBreva: bind-mount it
14:01:09ravonmount -o bind /mnt/hdb/tmp /tmp
14:01:31RedBrevaUhmmm, what exactly does that do>
14:01:47ravonIt mounts the /mnt/hdb/tmp folder on top of the /tmp folder :)
14:01:57RedBrevaOK... I'll give it a go
14:02:12ravonAdd it to fstab if you want it permanently.
14:03:08RedBrevaAh, now you said that as if I should know what it means :D
14:03:25ravonnano -w /etc/fstab :)
14:04:58ravonRedBreva: Back to the compile. Yell if you need help.
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14:06:59ravon"Either way, have some patience, I mean the X5 port isn't due to be officially released until November"
14:07:01ravonIs that correct?
14:07:21 Quit wehn ()
14:07:22B4gder3.1 is planned to be for x5 too, yes
14:08:30linuxstbMaybe listing the ipod 3g as a 3.1 target is being optimistic - as there are no developers....
14:08:34ravonOki. Feels so far away :)
14:08:39B4gderlinuxstb: indeed
14:08:56B4gderravon: well, considering the lack of x5 devs, I'd say it is very close
14:09:33linuxstb30 billion ipods in the world, and no new developers as a result of the port...
14:09:46Bg3rlinuxstb :))
14:10:01Bg3rsad ... but true ...
14:10:02B4gderI'd say Mikachu is one
14:10:22B4gderso, 30 million ipods and _one_ new contributor ;-)
14:10:25linuxstbTrue, but no new devs withcvs write access...
14:11:18ravonHmmm, maybe I can play around with the X5 remote control code at home then.
14:11:43ravonGonna enter the Rockbox code catacombs some day.
14:12:10B4gderthey are dark and scary
14:12:17linuxstbAnd never-ending...
14:12:21B4gderbut you get the cookie when you reach the other side!
14:12:59peturwhat other side?
14:13:02ravonFirst test: Any interaction with the remote controller causes the player buttons to stop responding.
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14:15:43preglowlinuxstb: no, i didn't. i was about to start testing when i found out that libmad still doesn't work on amd64 sims, at which point i diverged to look a bit at why that was
14:15:44 Quit VoltageX ()
14:16:52linuxstbpreglow: OK. Let me know if you go back to it.
14:17:01amiconnpreglow: It does work here...
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14:20:17preglowamiconn: try changing tracks
14:20:25preglowamiconn: from one mp3 to another, that is
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14:23:45amiconnpreglow: Okay, will check later. Can't do atm
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14:24:39preglowamiconn: it crashes in the init memset here
14:28:00tucozare the icons ever grayscale on some target?
14:28:39tucozOr is it just the screenshots that are grayscale?
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14:32:11RedBrevaUh! I have been running a number of sims all morning, and now I get an error: "fatal: No available video device" !!
14:34:18RedBrevaHow do you unmount /tmp from /mnt/tmp?
14:34:42RedBreva(It's the only change I made between success and failure)
14:37:13tucozany objections to making the icons in the appendix black/white?
14:37:29tucozTo make them more platform independant (so to speak)
14:39:03peturI thought there were plans for color icons?
14:39:09tucozI see
14:39:19tucozI haven't been around for some time
14:39:54peturWell there were talks, don't know if it will be done
14:40:03pregloweh? aren't our jewels icons taken from geweled?
14:40:11LinusNyes they are
14:40:16preglowthen what the hell is going on?
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14:40:28preglowthey're even taken from the svg source, i think
14:40:39RedBrevaAnyone? The reverse of mount -o bind /mnt/tmp /tmp ??
14:40:50LinusNthe gweled gems are still *very* similar to the bejeweled ones
14:40:54preglowso what
14:41:16preglowthere's no copyright infringement
14:41:19tucozThey are gems after all. It would be fun to find a similar gem from an old game
14:41:22ashridahLinusN: the similarity isn't a problem, since it's not copyright infringement
14:41:28linuxstbpreglow: Have you read the LWN article and comments? That has links to screenshots from the Palm version.
14:41:32ashridahit can only be fraud if they CLAIM to be from bejeweled :)
14:41:37preglowlinuxstb: no
14:41:57ashridahlinuxstb: linky
14:42:33ashridahit wasn't really cease&desist either
14:42:52ashridahsince it would have come from a lawyer and actually be BASED on some potential law :)
14:42:55tucozThey are similar, but not equal
14:43:19LinusNthe question is how similar they can be without infringing
14:43:29tucozWonder if a change of color would help
14:43:39tucozLike switch the green to blue and so forth
14:43:56tucozThen the shape would be the only thing that is similar
14:44:26tucozI wonder if a basic shape, like a triangle could be copyrighted :)
14:44:36Zagortucoz: no
14:44:49goffa_ depends on who's trying :)
14:45:00*goffa_ thinks he should copywrite the period
14:45:03Zagorit is an often debated issue if even icons can be copyrighted.
14:45:14Zagora work must have some level of complexity to gain protected status
14:45:25goffa_i could charge royalties
14:45:51goffa_i'd have to crack down on rampant piracy... the legal fees would kill me
14:46:36linuxstbHere's a side-by-side comparison of the two:
14:46:39preglowas long as they're not truly identical, i'd say there's no case
14:46:43ashridahchange them to playing card images or something. heart, club, diamond, spade, joker :)
14:46:48preglowand they're not, i can see the differences clearly
14:46:52ashridahand lets not forget, rules for draw and stud poker
14:46:56ashridahour personal favourite
14:47:08Zagorlinuxstb: here's the svg source for our icons:
14:47:17Zagor(or rather a screenshot of it)
14:47:28preglowZagor: you're mailing him back with this, i take it?
14:47:33LinusNpreglow: so it would be perfectly ok to steal the graphics, and change one single pixel?
14:47:54 Join solexx [0] (
14:47:59Zagoryou can actually infringe even without copying
14:48:01preglowLinusN: no, that'd be copyright infringement
14:48:15preglowpoint is, it's clear we've gotten the icons from a different source
14:48:22Zagorthe yanks call it "look & feel protection"
14:48:30Zagorapple is very font of it, among others
14:48:31preglowlovely and vague
14:48:38Zagorfond, even
14:48:48LinusNpreglow: ok, so it would be ok to draw your own jewels, exactly alike?
14:49:04preglowof course not, i'm not taking about bit identical here
14:49:11preglowidentical as in appearance
14:49:16preglowand they're not identical
14:49:21pregloweven the colours differ
14:49:35tucozBut a gem is not a very complex piece of work.
14:49:44LinusNstill, they look very much alike
14:49:45peturthey're close, admit that
14:49:57preglowLinusN: sure they do
14:50:05preglowbut they're simple geometrical shapes
14:50:06linuxstbHe claims in his email that "it's obvious that someone on the PluginJewels team ripped the graphics from one of the Astraware-licensed versions of our game".
14:50:10linuxstbWhich is not true.
14:50:10tucozI would not be surpriced if there have been drawn gems like that a zillion times before
14:50:12preglowlinuxstb: exactly
14:50:16Zagorlinuxstb: correct, that is not true
14:50:17 Join damaki_ [0] (
14:50:21preglowlinuxstb: so i'd like to see that misconecption rectified first
14:50:26preglowbefore we even discuss it any further
14:50:31preglowlink him to your side by side comparison as well
14:50:31linuxstbAnd then he says "If that is indeed the case, those graphics need to be removed from the game,"
14:50:40ashridahhe is CLEARLY not getting advice from a lawyer. since he would be saying 'we alledge that you are <blahblah>'
14:50:52linuxstbSo IMO the answer seems clear.
14:51:07Zagorashridah: he's trying the low-cost route first, methinks :-)
14:51:19linuxstbBut the question is should we do something like change the colours to make them less similar to his graphics?
14:51:35LinusNi think we should
14:51:37ZagorI am split between two viewpoints:
14:51:37ashridahso the response is you got the mfrom gweled. if gweled is infringing, we didn't know, we'll rectify it immediately if that's the case.
14:51:39peturto be exact: "The game PluginJewels, for use on RockBox and available at, is a blatant copyright violation of Bejeweled, the popular match-three game owned by my company, PopCap Games, Inc., of Seattle, Washington, USA."
14:51:49LinusNthere is no value in having it so similar
14:51:50Zagor1) We have the right to do this, dammit.
14:52:07tucozThis is like the mohammed cartoons
14:52:10Zagor2) It's not really nice to copy someone elses work like that, even if it's technically legal
14:52:17ashridahZagor: the nose-thumbing approach. heh. i seem to recall that tends to involve swords, historically :)
14:52:26tucozeven though we have the right to do what we do, we do not have to do it
14:52:37preglowif someone makes us nice new jewels, we use them
14:52:47preglowuntil there are some, we use these
14:52:51 Join enthalpy_male [0] (
14:52:54ashridahi still say change them into card suits ;)
14:52:55preglowif it's not infringing anything
14:52:58preglowand i doubt it is
14:53:05ashridahgive them nice rendered looks, etc.
14:53:09ashridahpity i'm not an artist :(
14:53:22enthalpy_maleholy shites i installed rockbox and killed my h320!!!
14:53:30preglowenthalpy_male: don't think so
14:53:43 Quit solexx_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
14:53:48preglowjust mail him back and tell him were we got the graphics from, with some nice proof of it, and a good side-by-side comparison, and see what he says
14:53:53preglowit's not really a big deal anyway
14:54:08tucozenthalpy_male, really? what happend?
14:54:08LinusNenthalpy_male: what a silly thing to do, install rockbox and then kill the player afterwards
14:54:30enthalpy_maleno really, i was playing in the menus and used some battery test option..that probably killed tha batter and now it wont let meconnect or charge . if
14:54:34preglowashridah: there aren't enough card suits...
14:54:43ashridahso add the joker
14:54:46*ashridah shrugs
14:54:50preglowwe need two more again
14:54:53LinusNenthalpy_male: how long have you charged it?
14:54:55Zagorthe jools icons look pretty good
14:54:56ashridahthere's 7? damn.
14:55:02preglowZagor: i think they're fugly as hell
14:55:04preglowtoo dark
14:55:05enthalpy_maleif i coonnect the adapter the screen flickers and goes raeally bright and wont say "charging" at all but it gets warm
14:55:06peturLike that guy a couple of days ago, he wrote he tossed his ipod through the window because RB broke it ;)
14:55:11preglowZagor: and looks like they're bitmapped
14:55:15Zagorthey are
14:55:40preglowsvg is nicer :>
14:55:59Zagorwell sure, but for our purposes it doesn't really make a difference
14:56:02enthalpy_malesince i didnt get any display and the connecting the ac adapter gave me a mesaage "check hdd connection" , i left it connectd to usb all night hoping it will charge. , but it still wont turn on
14:56:30preglowZagor: resizing bitmap graphics at those small sizes can look ugly really fast
14:56:38tucozyou could tell him that he is allowed to use the prettier gems from gweled, as those are gpl'ed :)
14:56:39 Join JBGood [0] (i=Johnq@
14:56:48LinusNenthalpy_male: have you reset it?
14:56:54enthalpy_malei dunno how
14:56:57Zagorpreglow: scaling down is rarely a problem especially since we always go under 50%
14:57:04Zagorbut sure, svg would be better
14:57:37peturenthalpy_male: the little hole under the internal mic
14:57:37enthalpy_maleh3200 can be reset? i kep looking for the reset button in the bottom but couldnt see it
14:57:49linuxstbtucoz: I don't think he would be allowed - unless he GPL'd the rest of his game...
14:57:57enthalpy_maleohh duhhh ! let me do it now, dunno how i missed it
14:58:23tucozlinuxstb, ah. bummer
14:58:47 Quit cs-cam ("and... he's gone")
14:58:49linuxstbZagor: Maybe it's worth talking to the Gweled author. At least it would be nice to warn him.
14:59:27ZagorI've been thinking about that angle too. If we "fold" too easily, do we make it harder for him?
14:59:52amiconnZagor: Scaling bitmaps of these low sizes always looks ugly. There's no way around tailor-made bitmaps for these low sizes if we want them to look good
14:59:53enthalpy_maleshit still nothing, it gets stuck in the bootloader screen with top 3 lines showing only upto batt voltage 3.63v
15:00:17B4gdergiving our game a more unique look rather than a copycat isn't a bad idea anyway
15:00:41enthalpy_maleoh great now it says ata error -1, insert usb cable and press a butotn
15:01:09 Quit jbauman (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
15:01:17enthalpy_malei did dthat but its stuck
15:02:19ZagorB4gder: i agree
15:02:34enthalpy_malewow its stuck on, i cant even turn it off
15:02:46ashridahpity we can't somehow make photos of the different players rockbox runs on fit in there :)
15:02:48tucozand regarding the gameplay, it is similar to tetris attack
15:02:58ashridah"woot, i matched 5 ipods in a row!"
15:02:59tucozwhich is a nintendo game
15:03:01preglowenthalpy_male: that's not a really good battery voltage
15:03:15tucozfrom 95
15:03:28enthalpy_maleoh but how do i charge it! it seems not to want to charge! cna rockbox use ac adapter?
15:03:46enthalpy_malewhy is it not showing low batt , if its a bad voltage?
15:03:53enthalpy_maleits 3.60v now
15:04:27tucoz (gameplay)
15:04:41 Part LinusN
15:04:44linuxstbashridah: Very geeky idea, but I like it.
15:05:07enthalpy_malehelp :(
15:05:09ZagorI'm surprised nobody has suggested loadable icons yet :-)
15:05:14preglowi think we should shoot for something like the current icons
15:05:46preglowthey give the game a very sleek, colourful appearance
15:05:48 Quit damaki__ (Connection timed out)
15:05:55preglowenthalpy_male: this sounds like a hardware failure to me
15:06:04peturenthalpy_male: reset it again, then insert the AC adapter. That should give you the iriver charge screen (if not, press off)
15:06:09goffa_heh... maybe jewels should have the lucky charms shapes :)
15:06:18*amiconn prepares for some bashing
15:06:31peturenthalpy_male: if it doesn't charge, it is indeed a hardware issue
15:07:02 Quit DewDude (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
15:07:10enthalpy_malei dont get charge screen when i insert ac
15:07:13goffa_last night i think i had a hardware issue.. i didn't have the other end plugged into the wall
15:07:14enthalpy_maleoh wait now i do
15:07:23 Join DewDude [0] (
15:07:26enthalpy_malephew, so i guess let it charge and then later it will boot?
15:07:44*goffa_ hopes he can make it to 11
15:07:45peturfingers crossed...
15:07:48goffa_with tunes
15:08:15enthalpy_maleheh no i defintley got it plugged, the logo that shows during boot time, flickers though and is really washed out in color, like its really bright
15:08:33preglowyour battery voltage is really low
15:08:35preglowso small wonder
15:08:38preglowjust hope it'll charge fine
15:08:43goffa_you probably did enthalpy_male ... last night i didn't
15:09:07enthalpy_maleoh ok. but can rockbox not chrge through usb? i left it plugged ion al night, becasue the ac adapter didnt seem to work
15:09:21Zagorif anyone wants to play around, the gweled jewels are drawn in "sodipodi":
15:09:25*Zagor goes for coffee
15:09:46DewDudehere's a crazy idea, you guys ever plan on porting rockbox to PSP?
15:09:58B4gderwe don't exactly "plan" new ports at all
15:10:26ashridahDewDude: if you've got a few spare you'd sacrifice to the cause (unless adequate docs can be retrieved from the net, that is)
15:10:26DewDudeit's whoever does it
15:10:32enthalpy_malebut hey if its plugged in why does teh batt voltage matter ? i remmeber i could use my discharged player, if it was plugged in :/
15:10:44 Join Jungti1234 [0] (n=jungti12@
15:10:54DewDudeheh..i have a PSP
15:10:58DewDudejust the one
15:11:21DewDudeand no one has written to the firmware yet
15:11:37DewDudebut one could probably port one over as a standalone application
15:11:42DewDudei guess, i don' tknow
15:11:49ashridahheh. port the Sim :)
15:11:53enthalpy_malei see teh charging screen and when i press on,, it says start , and the background flickers adnn remains stuck in that state "ver 1.29k start" thats it
15:12:02DewDudei don' tknow the first thing about coding
15:12:14DewDudei just wanted to see what you guys would react to such a suggestion\
15:12:29B4gderwe get such suggestions almost daily
15:12:38DewDudei'm sure it's powerful enough....333mhz RISC based chip
15:12:45B4gderwe've grown thick skin
15:12:48enthalpy_maleand it seems to be getting really hot to the touch, dont htink it got this warm before when charging
15:13:04DewDudeenthalpy_male, battery problems?
15:13:36enthalpy_maleno idea!
15:13:45*linuxstb passes lostlogic some coffee
15:13:49DewDudeif your unit is getting excessively warm
15:13:56enthalpy_malei just installed rockbox last night, and now i cant turn it on
15:14:05DewDudeand you don't notice a change in capicaity...then you got bad batteries
15:14:09enthalpy_maleit was fine yesterday been using it everyday
15:14:15DewDudethat i don't know
15:14:24DewDudei don't have a portable player to put rockbox on
15:14:33 Quit ashridah ("Leaving")
15:15:06linuxstbDewDude: I think SDL has been ported to the PSP, and there is a "UI simulator" version of Rockbox which runs under SDL...
15:15:40enthalpy_malethanks guys , for the help! better run and goto work now
15:15:44 Part enthalpy_male
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15:23:10***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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15:29:36goffa_what about sdl?
15:29:43DewDudei don't think the current hacks have dsl support in the PSP
15:29:51DewDudecuz after firmware 1.5 we lose Kernel access mode
15:30:20DewDudealthough they've gotten a lot of meida apps to run with the current GTA hack
15:30:59goffa_how much storage does the psp have?
15:33:31 Quit stoffel (Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable))
15:34:02DewDudedepends on how many memory cards you buy
15:34:13DewDudethere's a 4gig HDD attachement you can get
15:34:30DewDudethey're working on larger drive attachments as Sony has come out with 4gb and 8gb memory stick duo's
15:34:48DewDudeso soon as the new firmware supports it, someone will hack it
15:34:50goffa_so pretty small
15:35:11goffa_my 30gb is bursting at the seams
15:38:13DewDudeit DOES support ATRAC3Plus
15:38:25DewDudeso for the most part, i've been compressing everything to 48kbps and cramming stuff on there
15:38:59goffa_i'll keep doing ogg on mine :)
15:41:02*linuxstb wonders why iaudio players are so expensive in Europe compared to the US
15:41:29goffa_do they have some royalty tax over there?
15:41:48B4gderI noticed they've started selling the x5v here
15:41:54DewDudewell, if i wanted ogg
15:41:59DewDudethere's an ogg player already for it
15:42:01DewDudeand i tested it
15:42:09goffa_yeah... mpc is nice too
15:42:15DewDudeproblem format offers a good low-bitrate quality
15:42:24goffa_i hate low bitrate
15:42:26DewDudeand even tho i'm talking low bitrate when i got a drive full of flac
15:42:29B4gderwell, low bitrate is low quality
15:42:31DewDudestorage is expensive
15:42:38Jungti1234I wonder why battery of Rockbox is consumed faster..
15:42:48DewDudeB4gder, ATRAC3Plus @ 48kbps is acceptable
15:42:58linuxstbI'm quite interested in the G3 - it's $99 US, but in the UK it's about 110UKP ($195 US)
15:43:02B4gder"acceptable" is very subjective
15:43:12DewDudeyou want me to dig up a sound sample?
15:43:17B4gderno thanks
15:43:24B4gderits still subjective
15:43:39B4gderI can't hear any differences
15:43:42Jungti1234Can't anyone answer?
15:43:42DewDudei compared it to like, OGG, WMA, and AAC at 48kbps
15:43:50B4gderI used the first x5 version of Rockbox fine without noticing anything
15:44:10B4gderwhich kind of rules me out for doing listening tests ;-)
15:44:36DewDudemy ears are still good
15:44:43DewDudeos[Linux 2.6.15-20-386 i686] distro[Debian testing/unstable] cpu[1 x AMD Athlon(TM) XP 2000+ @ 1.66GHz] mem[Physical : 1011MB, 65.8% free] disk[Total : 279.80GB, 30.20% Free] video[ATI Technologies Inc RV280 [Radeon 9200]] sound[Audigy2 - Audigy 2 Platinum [SB0240P]]
15:44:43Jungti1234B4gder: You don't know?
15:44:50goffa_Jungti1234: could be a lot of different things
15:44:52B4gderJungti1234: if we knew, we'd fix it
15:45:18DewDudeanything can affect battery performance
15:45:21Jungti1234hmm ok
15:45:24DewDudehaving bass boost on will draw a battery down
15:45:38goffa_yeah... also larger files will too
15:45:51DewDudegoffa: you should see my PC sound setup now
15:45:54goffa_and buffering, and dircache
15:46:01 Quit Shonky ()
15:46:01B4gderwe don't have "bass boost" on sw platforms
15:46:02goffa_cool.. what's it like?
15:46:27B4gderand no, larger files will not
15:46:31DewDudeaudigy 2 plat feeding directly into an old school Sansui 10-band/channel graphic-EQ
15:46:52DewDudeand right now that's going into my sony reciever...but i'm supposed to be getting an amp designed for me
15:47:05DewDudecuz i just use headphones 99% of the time
15:47:11 Join qwm [0] (
15:47:28DewDudeyeah, that EQ is like gold man
15:47:34DewDudeit's magical
15:47:40goffa_yeah... i should be getting a pair of shure e5c's.. my er4s's are getting repaired
15:47:53goffa_i want to do a comparo
15:47:54DewDudei've got my Sennheiser HD212Pro's from 3 yeras ago
15:48:00DewDudei've had to modify the cable a bit
15:48:05DewDudebut they're still working, and i still love'em
15:48:16DewDudeoh, and dude
15:48:28DewDudei finally got my name printed on a CD under technical stuff :)
15:48:39DewDudei did some vinyl remastering for someone
15:48:50linuxstbI've been considering investing in some ER4Ps for a while - would anyone recommend against them?
15:49:08DewDudelinuxstb, i personally like most everything Sennheiser makes
15:49:12goffa_for the living room i have a hk avr 430, energy c-9, ascend cbm-340 center (about to be upgraded to cbm-340se)... then ascend cbm-170 se's on the sides and bock
15:49:24goffa_linuxstb: they are good phones
15:49:28DewDudehow much of that is digital?
15:49:32goffa_cool deal on the cd
15:49:33DewDudelike, are you running SPDIF all over?
15:49:44goffa_DewDude: spdif all the way
15:49:49lostlogicI want to get Shure e500 pths but I fear their impedence will be too much for the ipoop to drive well
15:49:50Jungti1234os Microsoft Windows XP Professional Service Pack 2 (5.1.2600)
15:49:51Jungti1234cpu Pentium III (0.18 ) With 256 KB On-Die L2 Cache l 4608Mhz
15:49:51Jungti1234network Realtek RTL8139 Family PCI Fast Ethernet NIC - Ŷ ٷ ̴ Ʈ 100Mb/s
15:49:51DBUGEnqueued KICK Jungti1234
15:49:51Jungti1234memory 163.09/254.48MB (밡: 91.39MB)
15:49:51Jungti1234display Intel(R) 82810E Graphics Controller (Microsoft Corporation)
15:49:51***Alert Mode level 1
15:49:51Jungti1234sownd ESS Maestro 3
15:50:03DewDudei run analog all the way
15:50:18goffa_yeah... its not bad.. but analog from a computer is usually nothing to brag about
15:50:25DewDudethe Audigy 2 is nice
15:50:31Jungti1234My computer is bad.
15:50:31DewDudeespically since i shielded everything
15:50:43DewDudei put a makeshift farraday cage around my sound card
15:50:48DewDudeand one inside the cabinet of my EQ
15:50:50goffa_yeah... i seriously don't have a problem with the sound of my setup though
15:50:52 Quit Jungti1234 ()
15:51:04linuxstbgoffa_: I've read that the cable on the ER4Ps can pick up sounds when you touch it - have you found that a problem?
15:51:08 Join Jungti1234 [0] (n=jungti12@
15:51:22goffa_linuxstb: i have the er4s.. that's what i'd reccomend
15:51:33 Join speacial_ed [0] (
15:51:34goffa_and you can get a cable to adapt it to p
15:51:53speacial_edi was just browsing and came across two .rocks for rockbox called rockpaint and rockword, how might I use these?
15:51:56goffa_but i'd stic with s
15:51:56DewDudei don't know...i find running the auddio throught the EQ restores something lost in digital
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15:52:20linuxstbgoffa_: OK. So cable noise isn't a problem?
15:52:30goffa_linuxstb: not that i've encountered
15:52:34DewDudei did notice once i put that mesh around the card...the noise was cut down
15:52:43goffa_but i have er4s and not p
15:52:48DewDudei need to make some kind of farraday-like tubing for the cables
15:52:53goffa_should be about the same
15:52:55 Quit speacial_ed (Client Quit)
15:53:02goffa_the p's should be a bit louder
15:53:05goffa_less resistance
15:53:17linuxstbWhat player do you use them with?
15:53:21DewDudehigher impedience usually means louder drivers
15:53:52DewDudehigher resistance means less power to actually move the coil..i believe
15:54:03DewDudeit's been a while since i've worked on speakers..usually i just build amps all day
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15:56:56goffa_DewDude: same drivers on the er4s and er4p
15:56:56goffa_well in this case.. lower resistance means more current is going to the drivers
15:56:56goffa_when the drivers are the same it'll seem louder when you pump the same current in
15:56:58goffa_this is what i've read on a few sites anyway
15:56:59goffa_p stands for portable... its designed to be used without an amp for portable players
15:57:24 Quit qwm_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
15:57:33goffa_i have an amp with my s... but the output of the x5 is loud enough where you don't really need an amp for the er4s
15:57:47goffa_i needed one with my rio karma though
15:57:48DewDudegenerally when i'm doing speakers..if the amp is rated for like, 60watts at 4 generally means if i'm using an 8ohm speaker i gotta have something higher than 60 watt handling
15:57:57DewDudei don't know tho, jukeboxes have strange sound systems in themn
15:58:15 Join JBGood25 [0] (
15:58:45goffa_and that's right... the more resistance, the more power it takes to drive something, and more power usually means louder
15:59:49goffa_i'm looking forward to trying those shures
15:59:52***Alert Mode OFF
16:00:46DewDudeheh, it's hard to tell anymore with designs
16:00:50lostlogicgoffa_: the impedence of earphones higher => quieter. There isa fixed amount of power delivered to them by the source at a given volume level, so higher impedence means less current means less loud.
16:00:52DewDudeyou have to look at the dbl level
16:02:05goffa_lostlogic: yeah
16:02:49 Quit markun (
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16:02:53goffa_linuxstb: you may find this interesting
16:03:09NJoinmarkun [0] (
16:03:09NJoinIronhand [0] (
16:03:35linuxstbgoffa_: Thanks. Reading now.
16:04:28DewDudei say screw it all and let's all run 70 volt CV lines to our speakers
16:04:33DewDudewith indvidual matching transformers
16:04:46 Join BHSPitLappy [0] (
16:05:11goffa_he he he
16:05:34Jungti1234I have some ideas.
16:05:45DewDudeideas on what?
16:06:12 Quit JBGood (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
16:07:52DewDude"Older legends say that tube amplifiers can drive lower impedances than their rating demands. So a tube amp with a label saying "8-ohm" may drive 4 and 8 ohms. You can go down but not up. Don't try 16 ohms. And never run a tube amplifier without speakers attached. Other legends of the tube age say that any attempt to use a tube amp with speakers of different impedance may cause damage to the amplifier." <−−-FALSE! I do it a
16:07:52DewDudell the time. It's the Germanium based amplifers you have to watch out on
16:08:37Jungti12341. change to size that user wants icon of status bar. 2. make user can backgrounds of selection menu.
16:09:26DewDudeoh, and more other thing i've changed about myself....i became a HUGE stoner
16:09:56 Quit BHSPitLappy (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
16:10:17DewDudei'm packin a bowl right now :)
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16:16:00linuxstbgoffa_: You said you have the er4s and a cable will convert them to er4p, but the reviews I've just read (and other sites I've seen in the past) sell the er4p and a cable (ER4P-24) to convert them into er4s. Which makes me think I should buy the er4p, and then buy that cable should I ever buy an amp.
16:16:55DewDudethe difference is probably the size of the headphone plug
16:17:06DewDudeone is probably quarter inch jack, and the other is 1/8th inch minijack
16:17:31DewDudemy senneheisers came with an adapter
16:17:36DewDudebut i built my own custom cable
16:17:57goffa_ah.. that actually makes sense
16:18:11goffa_i had it backwards
16:18:23goffa_because the cable would increase impedence
16:18:43Jungti1234bye all
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16:19:51DewDudeheh, i hard wired a quarter inch cable on to my sennheisers after the third time the jacks at the cans failed
16:20:14goffa_DewDude: same size cable
16:20:19goffa_just thicker wire to convert
16:20:33DewDudei meant quarter inch plug
16:20:37DewDudenot quarter inch cable
16:20:41DewDudei used standard speaker cable on it
16:20:42goffa_well plug is the same too
16:20:57goffa_yeah... not really
16:21:05goffa_just increases the impedance
16:21:06DewDudeit's just thicker wire
16:21:25DewDudebut i'll tell you, if you have a knot in your cable
16:21:32DewDudethat's ruining the impediance
16:23:01DewDudeimpedance is also an art
16:23:14DewDudebecuase the amount of imedance changes with frequency
16:23:57DewDudeif you're using an ohm meter to test...and you have it set at the value you want
16:23:59DewDudeyou're wrong.
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16:24:28_jim_fearanyone arond?
16:24:42DewDudeno, we died
16:24:46_jim_fearhey whats up petur =D
16:25:11petureverything ok?
16:25:12_jim_fearwhen i goto the CVS build table... A) what am I looking at and B) can i see what changes were made
16:25:15CtcpIgnored 2 channel CTCP requests in 9 seconds at the last flood
16:25:15*DewDude starts to bake....toke every minute till golden...repeat if necessary
16:25:33peturthe changes are on the front page
16:25:48_jim_fearthe front page of rockbox
16:25:50DewDudeoh...goffa...i'm gonna throw a couple of names at you, you gotta tell me if you've heard from them or not
16:25:57DewDudefilburt, sigle
16:26:00DewDude..i think that's it
16:26:04peturand here:
16:27:11_jim_fearare the cvs's updated daily?
16:27:13peturthe cvs build table shows the devs if any build for a target failed
16:27:33peturwhenever somebody commits changes
16:27:43peturcould be hourly ;)
16:27:50_jim_fearthats awesome
16:28:08_jim_fearam i suppose to be going to to download the new build?
16:28:18peturthe downloads on that CVS page are the latest ones
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16:28:43peturmay contain a bug, but mostly ok
16:29:04peturso yes, you can use those
16:29:11_jim_fearhow long until a regular build comes out
16:29:26petur3.0 is expected may 1
16:29:45linuxstbThe last official release was in September. As petur said, the next is due on May 1, with another planned for November.
16:30:03peturwhat player did you use?
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16:31:35peturofficial support for h300 is in version 3.0
16:31:48_jim_fearpetur u missed it, i was in here the other day trying to diagnose why audio drops when i hold the scroll buttons up or down in a directory
16:31:54_jim_fearneedless to say we couldnt figure it out
16:32:15_jim_fear[10:31] <petur> official support for h300 is in version 3.0 <~ which wont be out until may
16:32:43peturthe scrolling probably takes too much CPU time and causes the codec to empty the buffer
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16:34:34_jim_fearthats understandable so i was wondering if there was a way to slow down max scroll speed
16:34:43_jim_feari dont think there is though
16:35:32linuxstbDon't scroll as fast....
16:35:44goffa_dew... had to go fix a printer
16:35:51goffa_yeah i remember filburt and sigle
16:36:12_jim_fearlinuxstb im not worried about me, its my friends in my car ;]
16:37:10DewDudei'm jealous
16:37:14DewDudemy mom has a nicer laptop now
16:37:23DewDudeit's thin. it's huge
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16:38:09goffa_he he he
16:38:17goffa_don't let your sister touch it
16:38:19_jim_feari just gotz me a new laptop
16:38:25_jim_fearits better than ur moms =P
16:38:51goffa_got mine in january.. turion 2.2...
16:39:31_jim_fearreally lol wait
16:39:39_jim_fearmine is a turion 2.2 as well
16:39:46_jim_fear1gig (1 stick) internal
16:39:52goffa_yeah... same here
16:39:56_jim_fear80 gig 7200RPM
16:40:11goffa_got mine from
16:40:14_jim_fearhow much
16:40:25goffa_was $1700 at the time
16:40:28_jim_feari work @ a pc shop, so i got it through our company
16:40:52 Quit _Lucretia_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
16:40:59goffa_just sold my p4 3.0 to my parents for $800... so i used that as credit towards this :)
16:41:06_jim_fearSpartan SAT155 2.2GHz Turion 15.4" WXGA, 1GIG DDR, DVD/RW, 80 Gig 7200RPM
16:41:17_jim_fearahh i hate pentiums =)
16:41:27_jim_feari sold my P4 dell laptop to my mechanic
16:41:29_jim_fearthe only reason i miss it
16:41:31 Join warthawg [0] (
16:41:34_jim_fearis because of its 1600x1200 resolution
16:41:36_jim_feari miss that
16:41:44 Join kkurbjun [0] (
16:41:51_jim_fearthis is my tower (which i barely use now) MSI K8N-Sli, AMD 64 3500+, 1Gb DDR (2x512), EVGA GeForce 6800GS (oc), 74Gb 10,000rpm Raptor, 80Gb & 160Gb Seagate Baracudas, Lite-On DVD-RW, Logitech g5 & g15 gaming peripherals, 20.5" Digital Widescreen LCD, Logitech Z5300 Soundsystem.
16:41:54goffa_yeah... mine does 1600x1024 or whatever widescreen comes out as
16:42:17goffa_not bad for a tower
16:42:21_jim_fearoh no wait im an idiot
16:42:22_jim_fearthats victors
16:42:27_jim_fearthis is mine: MSI K8NNeo2 Platinum AMD 64 3000 (1.8GHz) , 1GB DDR400, 6800GT Leadtek Graphics, 300GB Seagate HD, 120 Maxtor HD, Thermaltake Butterfly 450Watt Power supply, Audigy Sound Card, Mitsubishi 21' old tube Monitor (that weighs 5 tons easily)
16:42:31_jim_fearits older than his lol
16:42:56warthawgi have a hamster
16:43:03_jim_feari have 2 hamsters =D
16:43:06_jim_fearjerry and nigger
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16:52:15HCli have a cat :)
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16:56:28Jungti1234Does anyone understand method to make BDF font?
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17:04:18gentoogreetings from Greece
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17:04:50gentooi was wandering if anyone knows how can i browse my hidden files through rockbox
17:05:07 Quit JBGood25 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
17:05:27petursettings -> file view -> all
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17:07:54preglowseems like spdif in the coldfire is 20 bits max
17:08:44 Quit gentoo ()
17:09:57linuxstbpreglow: I think Linus mentioned that earlier - 20-bit/96KHz maximum.
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17:14:51amiconnpreglow: Maybe 20bit isn't possible using dma, as with playback
17:17:37preglowamiconn: no, it seems the internal audio bus doesn't facilitate more
17:19:00preglowi wonder why HAVE_SPDIF_OUT is checked for in debug_menu.c, when it's the spdif in port that seems to be used
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17:43:28warana little question: Is it possible to add _any_ file on the iPod-HDD/Flash to the iTunes-Database? Would be great if I wouldn't had to have my Musik 2 times on the same iPod :)
17:45:07preglowno, it's not
17:45:16preglownot as far as i know
17:45:21preglowbut then again, i never use itunes
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17:45:30waranneither do I
17:45:36waraniTunes is Windows-Shit :)
17:45:37preglowrockbox can access all the files you have in your itunes database, though
17:45:40linuxstbNo - itunes will tell you that your ipod can't play those files. I tried once adding MP2 files.
17:45:44preglowit will find them when it does its own database scan
17:45:47bluebrotherhow do the no-itunes ipod programs work?
17:46:07bluebrotheraren't they required to write to the ipod database?
17:46:21linuxstbYes - they attempt to update the database in the same way itunes does.
17:46:51waranin Linux for example you can use also AmaroK to write a iTunes database on the iPod
17:46:52preglowif you want to use the apple os as well, you can just add all the itunes compatible files with itunes, and just copy everything else to the ipod as usual
17:47:01bluebrother... meaning they don't rely on the obfuscated file system structure of itunes?
17:47:07preglowrockbox can use everything, as long as its not copy protected
17:47:21linuxstbThe itunesdb has a limit of 56 characters per filename.
17:47:28preglowjust steer away from aac for now...
17:47:29linuxstb(including the path)
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17:48:14waranpreglow, ya. But the problem is: I have the files already on the iPod-HDD (in a own folder - for rockbox). If I add them again via iTunes/AmaroK it will _really_ copy them and waste much space.
17:48:58linuxstbThe foo_pod plugin for foobar is supposed to handle that - but lots of people have reported it doesn't work with the latest ipod firmware/itunes version.
17:49:05RJhi from audioscrobbler. Russ told me he spoke with someone about logging songs played on rockbox.. and the issue of some players not knowing their timezone. i updated the wiki page accordingly. Not sure if anyone relevant is in here atm.. anyway:
17:50:06waranlinuxstb, mhh. Maybe I should give foo_pod a try.
17:50:29lostlogicRJ: scrobbler is not yet in rockbox CVS, in case that's not mentioned.
17:50:44RJyeah i heard someone was cooking up a patch
17:50:46preglowdo _any_ players know their timezone?
17:50:53RJi understand there's a feature freeze atm for the next release
17:50:55preglowi don't think that's among are settings, currently
17:51:04lostlogicRJ: yeah, the patch looks decent though, so after 3.0 I'm sure it'll be in
17:51:05bluebrotherthat's somehow the way I thought it should work
17:51:17bluebrotherbut 56 chars including the path is ... urgh.
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17:52:17RJwe'll advertise rockbox to our users who have portable players once audioscrobbler support is built in
17:52:18 Quit waran (Remote closed the connection)
17:52:49RJmuch easier that supporting all sorts of exotic db formats :)
17:53:13linuxstbpreglow: Not in Rockbox, but I think the Apple firmware for the 5g uses timezones, with the rtc set to UTC.
17:53:42preglownot a bad arrangement
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17:58:31amiconnRJ: I'm not sure how important time information is for audioscrobbler; rockbox supports daps with and without rtc.
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17:59:04amiconnThe ones with rtc know the current time (if the user sets it correctly), but not the timezone. The ones without don't know the time at all
17:59:11RJi think we'll have to require a time for all submissions
17:59:25RJthe only way for players without a rtc is to interpolate times based on when it was synced or something
17:59:33RJdon't really want to get into that, at least not in the first version
18:00:30lostlogicRJ: what's the time for? what is audioscrobbler for? *does the ignoramus dance*
18:00:34amiconnArchos recorder v1/v2/fm, iriver H300, iaudio X5 and all ipods have an rtc
18:00:49RJheh, it tracks and lists your music taste...
18:00:53amiconnArchos player, Ondio fm/sp and iriver H1x0 do not.
18:01:07RJmassive dataabse, lotsa users + math to match you to other people
18:01:10RJand recommend music etc
18:01:53 Quit qwm (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
18:02:24lostlogicRJ: neat. still don't see why accurate time stamping is so important :-P
18:03:09RJsecond-accuracy isnt hugely important, as the sequence is enough to infer lots about the nature of music listening.. but it needs some reasonably accurate timestamp
18:03:17RJas it breaks down your taste into weeks and months
18:03:39RJand more importantly, our service is designed to require a time atm ;P
18:03:54lostlogicRJ: gotcha, so all of our targets with an RTC would initially be compatible, and times could be interpolated based on ticks and sync time for non-rtc targets later.
18:04:33amiconnTime interpolation based on sync could be off by months... judging from my own sync behaviour
18:04:47RJyeah, thats why i dont want any interpolation to start with
18:04:49lostlogicamiconn: well a user using scrobbler would likely sync more often
18:04:56RJjust support for players wtih rtc
18:05:16lostlogicbut yes, initially RTC players only seems reasonable for a musical taste-over-time system.
18:05:20RJinterpolating times probably screws with our spam detection and other stuff, as it will look weird
18:05:34lostlogicRJ: does your log format detect when tracks are skipped out of vs. played through? If so, how?
18:05:40RJsee the wiki page
18:05:48RJS or L, skipped or listened iirc
18:06:37lostlogichmm, I think the initial rev of the scrobbler patch doesn't support that, will hafta work on that.
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18:09:14amiconn"Timestamp may be left blank if the device does not have a clock, "
18:09:27amiconn(from the wiki page)
18:09:44lostlogicHmm, yes, shouldn't be too hard to add that information to the track changed callback, along with some possibly other relevent information.
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18:10:31RJah, time to update that :)
18:12:15lostlogicah, it tries to handle it just by how long the track is played for, what is the correct detection? How much of a track should be listened to before it's considered L and not S? Or should it always be S if the user manually skips out of it rather than allowing the system to play out of it automatically?
18:13:01RJif they listen to >=50%
18:13:04RJthen it's a listen
18:13:05amiconn"rating (L if listened at least 50% or S if skipped)"
18:13:08RJotherwise, skip
18:13:16goffa_ratings huh
18:13:20lostlogichmm, I should read.
18:13:22goffa_karma had that
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18:13:37*amiconn is not really interested in logging
18:13:48goffa_i'm not really either
18:14:01goffa_lol... you find out about a person that way
18:14:02amiconnI don't see the point
18:14:23goffa_traded my karma with a guy with an ipod at my friend's wedding...
18:14:24 Quit obo (Client Quit)
18:14:25lostlogicto get new music recomendations that match your current listening taste
18:14:30RJimo it's fun to see your music listening stats :P
18:14:31goffa_showtunes were at the top of the list