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#rockbox log for 2006-06-12

00:00:05peturamiconn: try or can you already access it?
00:00:06*Jon23266 Farts
00:00:12*amiconn wonders how many of the latest commits are actual bugfixes
00:01:08 Quit Jon23266 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
00:01:59*amiconn would also like to see a solution for the gcc 4.1 warning flood
00:02:30Mikachu-w-no-pointer-signed-something?
00:03:24amiconn-wno-pointer-sign is already in use, to suppress the gcc 4.0 "blah differ in signedness" warnings
00:03:54amiconngcc 4.1 spits a load more warnings, about breaking aliasing rules and stuff
00:04:13amiconnCheck the cvs build table.... lots of yellow
00:06:02*amiconn names it the '49 warnings problem'
00:06:12*Paul_The_Nerd doesn't want to hear of *anyone* having written something unless it's related to 3.0 =/
00:13:07Moosone 3.0 with all bugfixes needed seems to be utopic now, we can wait, wait... unfortunatly, or release like this imho
00:13:21Paul_The_NerdWe cannot release like this.
00:13:49Moosbetter to replace the 3.1 by 3.0 then ;-)
00:13:50Paul_The_NerdThat isn't an option. We can either cancel the freeze without a 3.0, or hold the freeze until it's good enough. But calling what we have "3.0" would be a WindowsME-style release.
00:14:02 Quit wooo (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:14:16 Quit [arcane] (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:14:18amiconnWell, we could release a 2.9 ... for archos
00:14:25Paul_The_NerdThe problem with releasing the freeze, is that it's like saying "It's okay that nobody helped out. If we don't get it done, we just cancel."
00:14:26Moosindeed
00:14:26midkaycanceling sounds best to me..
00:14:35EbErTyes, delay
00:14:43midkayPaul_The_Nerd, so waiting around for someone *to* help out is better?
00:14:53EbErTkeep everything on the same page. if it takes longer to work everything out, so be it
00:14:55Paul_The_NerdIf it's the only way to guarantee it gets done, then yes.
00:15:10midkayi guess that's the solution then.
00:15:18EbErTmaybe look for people also
00:15:23Paul_The_NerdWhy do you want the freeze to end, _exactly_?
00:16:02Moosjust see the diference about commit freqency during freeze and during normal activity
00:16:15Moosthe stats talk itself unfortunatly
00:16:17midkayPaul_The_Nerd, me? it's a number of smaller reasons, none of which are really important. I don't see much being done (though it's apparently being worked on).. we're missing release dates.. features are being held out..
00:16:24Paul_The_Nerdmidkay: The reason I said TagCache needs to be fixed or removed is that a "release" means everything is working as intended. This means that we're saying we _intend_ for tagcache to not be able to remove files without a workaround.
00:16:38midkayit seems unnecessary, holding back features to wait for bugfixes, when bugfixes that need doing are not being done.
00:17:00midkayPaul_The_Nerd, if it comes to that, removing it is best i suppose.
00:17:13amiconnImho it's quite the opposite... what good are bells and whistles if even the basic features are buggy?
00:17:22Paul_The_NerdAye, I'm personally okay with dropping TagCache and the H300, but that still leaves Voice and Playback issues, at least.
00:17:36midkayamiconn, but there's soooo much to do, bugginess won't be solved for .. pff.. probably over a month.
00:17:48midkaythere's just too much to do, that's the problem. :)
00:17:51Paul_The_Nerdmidkay: And if new stuff starts showing up, then new subtle bugs get introduced.
00:17:54midkaywe bit off too much for this release. :)
00:18:11midkayPaul_The_Nerd, agreed, but at least those are fixable more quickly than low-level playback/voice issues.
00:18:52amiconnmidkay: The problem is that the moment we lift the freeze, the actual bugfix work will go down further
00:18:53Paul_The_NerdNot if say, a patch gets in for .CUE support
00:19:02Moosmaybe we need more people with swcodec playback engine skills, lostlogiw wasn't awre those days
00:19:12Paul_The_NerdOr perhaps changes necessary to better support codecs like SID with multiple songs per file
00:19:40Paul_The_NerdThere's no guarantee that only simple bugs will get added once the feature freeze is off.
00:20:04midkaywhen we started the freeze for 3.0 back on april first, for a couple weeks there were plenty of fixes, and then they slowed down, because everything was shaping up, except for playback/voice, right? so if we canceled the freeze now, and pushed 3.0 back to november, yes, we'd be getting a lot of new features. but we'd have 4-5 months to solve playback problems, right? then when we went into freeze in november, playback/voice/power should all be
00:20:04midkayfixed, and we can do the normal 2-or-3 week stream of smaller bugfixes like we already had.
00:20:07 Quit petur ("here today, gone tomorrow")
00:20:20midkayi just hope you see my point with that long message. :)
00:20:23Moosif we compare this freeze with other ones, it semms we suffer of Linus missing :(
00:21:02Paul_The_Nerdmidkay: That makes the assumption that something else won't need to be resolved by that point.
00:21:02midkayit's not like leaving freeze means that bugfixes can't be done. they should.
00:21:10amiconnWe suffer from clueful people being notably absent :(
00:21:23Moosunfortunatly indeed :(
00:21:28midkayPaul_The_Nerd, i don't think anything as big as playback, voice, and battery life could be broken by then..
00:21:33amiconnlostlogic for playback, Linus for hardware, and TiMiD for multi-screen
00:21:34midkayespecially with 4-5 months to fix them.
00:21:54amiconnMulti-screen is still not 100%
00:22:19MoosTiMiD was dimotivated since his last tetris plugin attempt
00:22:23midkayamiconn, right, so the pace has slowed down.. if we had 5 months to fix all that, we could make it easily, and then just have the basic small bugs that we always do for the most part..
00:22:29midkayhaha.
00:22:42amiconnI doubt the 'easily' part
00:22:58Paul_The_NerdWhat is the harm in continuing the freeze?
00:23:03Paul_The_Nerd"No new features" is all.
00:23:16Paul_The_NerdWho does that hurt? Users? It's not *released* yet.
00:23:24amiconnThe point is, lostlogic started playback rework in preparation for 3.0
00:23:37midkayPaul_The_Nerd, everybody uses daily builds already, right? mostly..
00:23:52amiconnIf we wouldn't have planned 3.0, we would probably still have the non-restructured playback engine
00:23:56midkayamiconn, i don't mean easily like it won't be hard, but i mean easily like "we can do it within 4-5 months"..
00:24:22midkayright, so the rework is nearly done, and with 5-ish months i think it could be all fixed up.
00:24:47Paul_The_NerdAgain, what harm does the freeze cause?
00:24:51Moosamiconn: TiMiD had considered his plugin effort for nothing, I mean we he proposed his plugin, no one speaked with him about his plugin and that destroy his motivation to work on Rockbox
00:25:08amiconn?
00:25:11midkayPaul_The_Nerd, harm in continuing: no new features, right.. people asking about when/why is it gonna be released.. us delaying/missing dates..
00:25:47Paul_The_NerdThe only reason dates are missed is because they're set unrealistically
00:25:49amiconnmidkay: If we lift the freeze, there would still be no magical release... so people will continue to ask about it
00:25:53Paul_The_NerdYou can predict when you'll find the *cause* of the bug.
00:25:59Paul_The_Nerdcan't
00:26:00midkayPaul_The_Nerd, just general waiting. there's this "waiting" feeling for 3.0. nothing much is happening, most everything small has been ironed out, we're left with a few major bugs and we'll probably need a month to solve them.
00:26:10Paul_The_NerdSo?
00:26:25midkayamiconn, if we publicly announced that "we're gonna aim for november" now i think we'd certainly get less "When is 3.0 coming out" questions.
00:26:31midkayPaul_The_Nerd, *waiting*.
00:26:36Paul_The_NerdPeople can wait.
00:26:38Paul_The_NerdOr they can pitch in.
00:26:39midkaynot just that..
00:27:05midkaydunno. it's just my thoughts..
00:27:25midkayit feels like, if every feature was committed to CVS now, we could use that month to be fixing bugs, you know?
00:27:38midkayit's like wasted time.. waiting a month for a couple large commits.
00:27:43midkaynot literally wasted, but.. you know.
00:27:45Moosamiconn: he worked on one rework of tetris plugin with multi screen, multi player... but when he proposed his plugin, like noone was interested in, he didn't "apreciated" and he lost his motivation to rework in rockbox
00:27:53 Quit lancelott (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:28:06Paul_The_Nerdmidkay: People can test the patches without committing them to CVS
00:28:21amiconnMoos: Hmm... I must say I can't remember seeing that... and we already have 2 tetris clones
00:28:32midkayPaul_The_Nerd, users can't, and devs don't want to. only when they're actually *there* will they really bother to use them, i think..
00:28:48amiconnI thought multi-screen rework of the core is more important than plugins
00:28:52MikachuMoos: maybe he shouldn't have been so timid about pushing his plugin :)
00:28:58Paul_The_Nerdmidkay: Any patch that people are actually interested in gets tested.
00:29:03Moosamiconn: that's the reason for, but he used this work for refamiliarise with Rockbox, and he considered his work in vain
00:29:04Paul_The_NerdMeanwhile, look how buggy the H300 experimental build is.
00:29:05midkayPaul_The_Nerd, hardly by the masses..
00:29:14Paul_The_NerdIt has a LOT of reported problems
00:29:17MoosMikachu: :D
00:29:19midkaywhat about the smaller ones that are to-be committed?
00:29:25Paul_The_NerdSuch as?
00:29:39midkaymaybe only a couple people have tried, but if the feature is sitting there in CVS, people are *going* to take a few seconds to see how it works.
00:29:42amiconnmidkay: Problem is, devs like working on new features much more than working on bugfixes... I know that, I won't make an exception for myself
00:29:56amiconnThe freeze is a way to push devs towards fixing bugs
00:30:00midkayamiconn, i do as well..
00:30:03Paul_The_NerdThe only benefit of releasing the freeze is "Let the users play with new stuff"
00:30:18Paul_The_NerdAnd "more bugs to fix next time around"
00:30:34midkayamiconn, but some of us simply can't, and the ones who can't have already pretty much fixed everything they can. all that's left is the large-scale complicated playback/voice system and low-level power consumption stuff.
00:30:34Moosamiconn: I tried to motive him to fix his multi screen code but...
00:30:38Paul_The_NerdAnd, as I said, releasing the freeze means there's a LOT less pressure from a freeze next time
00:30:39midkayi simply can *not* do anything about those.
00:30:45Mikachui think it would be nice to get music playback working solid first, that is the main point of rockbox after all
00:30:55Paul_The_NerdIf we release it this time because people don't help out, next time some people may say "Hey, there's no harm in not helping out, as they can just cancel if they don't get done."
00:30:55amiconnThe bad thing about *this* freeze is that people with a clue about the buggy parts don't seem to have enough time to work on fixing them
00:31:08Moosbad luck imho
00:31:09Paul_The_NerdYou either stand by your guns, whatever the cost, or you lose any semblance of authority.
00:31:18midkayamiconn, right, so instead of having them fixed, we need to wait a month for the couple people with a clue to figure them out..
00:31:19***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:31:45Mikachuthis is a crazy idea but what about a cvs branch for features?
00:31:45amiconnmidkay: There are actually 2 power consumption issues, one is the H300 power drain from the ISP1362, which I am working on right now
00:31:55midkayamiconn, that's great to hear.
00:32:01Mikachuor possibly make the stable version a branch
00:32:04amiconnBattery runtime on H1x0 is really decent, it's longer than retailos promises
00:32:29Paul_The_NerdIf you cancel a freeze, all future freezes lose the level of pressure to fix bugs because casual devs know they can keep working on their side project, and even if the bugs don't get fixed, they can get it in when it's cancelled anyway.
00:32:32midkayif we had more people around this'd be cool, sure.. wait it out, fix it all up.. but since mostly everybody who can really help with this stuff is gone, it's like waiting a long time for this stuff to be fixed.
00:32:37amiconnThe other power issue only affects ipods, and it's a general codec optimisation problem... but ipods aren't targeted for 3.0
00:33:01Paul_The_Nerdmidkay: People can learn the code. Lostlogic had *no* experience with sound playback before he started reworking it.
00:33:02EbErTwait, where have they gone?
00:33:06midkayPaul_The_Nerd, erm.. most of the minor stuff is fixed. so the "casual devs" simply can't help any more.
00:33:22Paul_The_NerdNot "can't" but "won't"
00:33:27midkayso they may be even INTERESTED in bug fixes, but can't do anything about the remaining stuff.
00:33:39midkayPaul_The_Nerd, sure, anyone can learn anything.. but that's a load of crap. :)
00:33:44Paul_The_NerdNo, it's not.
00:33:55MikachuPaul_The_Nerd: is it the three 'immediate due for 3.0' bugs that are the holdups?
00:34:15midkaytalking about something this large scale, in such a small amount of time, for such a couple small bugs is..
00:34:28Paul_The_NerdSmall amount of time?
00:34:32Mikachu2687 is sort of really important, since it has to do with playback
00:34:42midkaypeople also probably figure that "if i begin learning the playback code now" they won't nearly have figured it out by the time it's fixed + the freeze is over, so why bother..
00:34:56midkaysmall amount of time meaning "it will be fixed before i can help".
00:35:21amiconnmidkay: E.g. for being able to help out with playback issues later?
00:35:41amiconnThe playback code is both a rather complex and a rather important part of rockbox
00:35:47Mikachulostlogic seems to have some idea for solving the problem inelegantly for 3.0 according to the tracker, but only he knows what that might be...
00:35:50midkayi don't think that we'll have anything this major after the rework is done.. what is there left to do if it's up and running? if the engine works well, all that's left is the stuff that interfaces with it..
00:36:09amiconnHaha...
00:36:31midkaywhat's gonna happen that we're gonna have huge bugs all over again? another rework? i hope not.. :)
00:36:37amiconnI expect numerous tasks even more complex than the engine rework itself after 3.0
00:36:49midkayamiconn, so those are unrelated to the engine rework.
00:37:13amiconnNo they aren't, as these tasks are playback related
00:37:15midkaye.g. learning the engine will be pointless if the engine gets fixed, even if we do have large bugs, they won't be related to the engine directly, since the engine is fixed.
00:37:18amiconnTo name a few
00:37:33Mikachumidkay: knowing the engine can never be pointless imo
00:37:33amiconn- support for non streamning codecs (mod, midi etc)
00:37:47midkayMikachu, no, certainly not. but it is a lot of work. :)
00:38:09amiconn- better modularisation (e.g. as few format-dependent cases in the core)
00:38:24amiconn- the great engine unification
00:39:11Paul_The_Nerdmidkay: What do we do if we lose everyone who knows the engine to other stuff?
00:39:16amiconnRemember, we want wav in the core for archos in 3.1 ...
00:39:18Paul_The_NerdDo we say "No more playback fixes"?
00:39:27Paul_The_NerdOr do we wait for someone to learn it.
00:39:38midkayPaul_The_Nerd, then i would personally begin learning it.
00:39:44Paul_The_NerdThen begin learning it.
00:39:47midkayas well as, i hope, a few others.
00:39:52midkayPaul_The_Nerd, i'd love to, and i'm considering it..
00:39:54Paul_The_NerdWhy wait until it's too late?
00:40:13midkayprobably in a few weeks i might give it a try..
00:41:11midkayPaul_The_Nerd, hm, just going by your logic - is there a reason *you* aren't learning it?
00:41:27MikachuPaul_The_Nerd is only here for moral support :)
00:41:53midkaysure, that.. but why can't he help with this also, if he thinks everyone should learn it and help out? :)
00:41:56crashdmaybe you should learn to code Paul_The_Nerd ;)
00:42:00Paul_The_NerdI can code.
00:42:04Paul_The_NerdAnd I'm working on learning it
00:42:12crashdwell, it does beg the question... :>
00:42:20Paul_The_NerdAs midkay noted, it is not simple.
00:42:30crashdim only playing the devils advocate anyway
00:42:36Paul_The_NerdBut I'm working on it.
00:42:48midkayPaul_The_Nerd, that's good to hear. :)
00:43:26Paul_The_NerdI have about 6 billion things on my plate right now, as I'm taking class over the summer, and I'm moving at the moment, but I am working on it.
00:44:04Moosnight or whatever all
00:44:08 Quit Moos ("CGI:IRC")
00:44:08midkayPaul_The_Nerd, i'm not nearly that busy, but yeah, i don't feel like i have the time right now to get far into it. but in a few weeks. :)
00:44:40Paul_The_NerdWell, I intend to finish all of my C++ classes assignments later tonight
00:44:58Paul_The_NerdWhich means I have two months of 2 hour labs twice a week where I have nothing to do but try to learn the playback engine.
00:45:06midkayi think the playback code is the next thing i need to tackle, really... i know the basics, that's the next step in learning all aspects of Rockbox. :)
00:45:19midkayah, nice. :)
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00:46:27Paul_The_NerdSee, I don't really even know my way around Rockbox at all yet.
00:46:38midkaydamn :)
00:47:22Paul_The_NerdI had planned to learn it, then I got sidetracked with the whole "Y'know, there's a lot of people asking for help in these forums... And there's a lot of people reporting bugs, and not being asked to develop their bug reports to a readable level"
00:47:44midkayright.
00:48:10midkayk, i think i need to commit some new brickmania bitmaps today. hmm. :)
00:48:15*Paul_The_Nerd sighs.
00:48:23midkayat?
00:48:28Paul_The_NerdI dunno
00:48:43midkayme too, but apparently there could be some copyright problems with the current ones even..
00:48:44Paul_The_NerdIt's my opinion that no commits should happen that aren't strictly bug-fixes for release targets, or Manual changes.
00:49:00Paul_The_NerdWell, copyright issues are a bug, I suppose
00:49:06midkayclose enough, sure..
00:50:01midkayif we're going to be stuck in freeze for another month, waste as little time as possible, i think.
00:51:45Paul_The_NerdWell, it's still possible to cancel the freeze, but my opinion is that we should announce that the freeze is on, officially Indefinitely, until playback and voice work reliably. Then, if TagCache is fully functional and the H300 works by then, include them, otherwise drop them from the release. People can download a daily of the same day and it'll have TagCache anyway, and H300 can just be put in the next build.
00:52:16midkayPaul_The_Nerd, right. i don't really mind extending it in fact..
00:52:39Paul_The_NerdWe do need to make a clear announcement sometime soon though, either way, I agree.
00:52:42midkaybut i just mean that if we're going to be in it for a month (or less, or more) that at least the little stuff that can't induce bugs in any way can be worked on..
00:53:09midkayyes, that's what i'd really like in the end - just let people know what we're doing so they don't have to ask.
00:53:58midkayPaul_The_Nerd, and please, no hard feelings at all, i'm glad it was discussed. :)
00:54:23Paul_The_NerdOh, it takes quite a bit for me to hold hard feelings at all.
00:54:30*amiconn will perhaps also fix the 'headache bug' in H1x0 doom if he finds the time
00:54:32midkaygood to know. :)
00:54:44amiconnAka gamma correction for the grayscale lib
00:55:05midkaynice. :)
00:55:12amiconnBut important things first (like that darn isp1362)
00:55:38midkayamiconn, btw, did.. er.. i'd like to ask if you can check out the grayscale Xobox i was working on. for archos. the lib confuses me like crazy. :)
00:55:43midkayhad a couple bugs.
01:00
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01:18:42XavierGrbad days for rockbox. First the feature freeze and now summer. CVS activity drops a lot during summer. :(
01:20:04XavierGrI promise to work more on Rockbox next days. My music school job is over (summer vacations) so I think I can help a bit, though my ignorance will not allow me to bug fix crucial bugs but at least I can try on minor ones...
01:21:49midkayas me, i'll be here all summer.. mostly just introducing bugs, though. ;)
01:21:55midkayah, i feel quite confident about these new bitmaps. :)
01:24:00EbErTwhat's the best way to convert jpeg's to bitmaps?
01:24:15EbErTi'm trying to replace some backdrops with ones i am making
01:24:41midkayanything? :) paint even works..
01:24:57Paul_The_NerdIf you're making backdrops...
01:25:02Paul_The_NerdWhy are they initially jpeg?
01:25:18midkaypictures? from the internet?
01:25:22midkayi'd assume..
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01:27:49Paul_The_NerdAh
01:27:56finikguys, sound stops on ipod if I use the wheel too much browsing menus etc, is it a known issue?
01:28:08Paul_The_NerdI guess "with ones I'm making" inspires the thought of creating something from scratch. Just the way my head works I guess.
01:28:15Paul_The_Nerdfinik: Very known, yes.
01:28:24Paul_The_NerdAs long as you're just talking about brief skips in the music
01:28:34midkayPaul_The_Nerd, also occurred to me, yeah. after writing that message.. i guess he means "making" as in "converting to be used with rockbox".
01:28:42midkaye.g. *making* bitmaps from jpg..
01:28:50Paul_The_NerdYeah
01:31:08*midkay is excited about these bitmaps
01:31:29finikPaul_The_Nerd: yes brief skips, can somebody explain me why does it happen? is the wheel movement arrives as some kind of interrupt? (I am not familiar yet with current SW arch)
01:31:38midkaygot quite a similar look as the CVS ones, but.. dunno.. i like it better. less harsh/fake.
01:31:50Paul_The_Nerdfinik: I believe that's exactly it, that the wheel generates interrupts right now.
01:32:07Paul_The_Nerdmidkay: Is the lighting consistent?
01:32:16midkayPaul_The_Nerd, meaning what?
01:32:47Paul_The_NerdOne of brick bitmaps, can't remember which, had the lighting on it in a curve, as if every brick bulged outward for some reason.
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01:33:23midkayweird, um, it's the same on all if them if that's what you're asking.. none of it really bulges.
01:33:26midkayIMO.
01:33:52Paul_The_NerdI think it was the original that looked like that.
01:33:54Paul_The_NerdNot really sure
01:34:12*Paul_The_Nerd has plenty of portable game solutions already.
01:34:48midkayposted.. http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=4787.0
01:34:51midkay:)
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01:36:30Paul_The_Nerd100% of votes are for the first one. I think that settles it.
01:36:31Paul_The_Nerd:-P
01:38:01midkayhaha.
01:39:55Mikachufinik: that it is an interrupt doesn't matter so much, i think the actual button driver code is pretty fast. the problem is the menu code redraws itself for every event it receives (which is every 4 interrupts if you scroll slowly) without compressing the events
01:40:42Mikachufinik: i think it might be somewhat mitigated if you select the paged scrolling option
01:42:31Paul_The_NerdMikachu: You can trigger the behaviour in the debug audio thread screen. It's not related to the menu display.
01:42:40Paul_The_NerdTry scrolling quickly there, and watch the PCM buffer drop!
01:42:42Paul_The_Nerd:)
01:43:15finikmikachu: I don't think it has anything to do with scrolling, you can scratch the volume wheel back and forth during wps and still have your audio cut after a few seconds
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01:47:08dunnohardeep, I'm unable to "Remove" files during viewing of the playlist catalog, it removes initially but if you switch the player off then on it puts the file back
01:47:54hardeepdunno: when viewing a playlist from the catalog?
01:48:05hardeepdunno: you need to save the updated playlist
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01:48:57MikachuPaul_The_Nerd: that is also due to redrawing the text
01:49:22Mikachuif you go somewhere that doesn't do anything at all when you scroll, then i'll believe you :)
01:49:26Mikachulike the quick screen
01:49:39dunnsoryy, hardeep, so i need to save the playlist catalog anew ?
01:49:43Paul_The_NerdMikachu: The View Audio Thread *doesn't* do anything when you scroll
01:49:55Paul_The_NerdIt just shows how full the two buffers are.
01:49:58hardeepdunn: maybe i'm misunderstanding
01:50:04hardeepdunn: what are you trying to do?
01:50:30dunnremove files from the playlist catalog
01:50:37MikachuPaul_The_Nerd: well, it definitely redraws all the numbers on every scroll event here
01:50:42hardeepdunn: what do you mean by remove files?
01:50:55dunnremove songs/tracks
01:51:19Mikachuif you use the 'view by id3' thinger you have to remove some files in .rockbox
01:51:21hardeepdunn: from the playlist viewer you mean...
01:51:31dunnyes
01:51:38hardeepdunn: like i said, you need to save the playlist
01:51:49hardeepdunn: menu->save playlist from the viewer
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01:53:51Paul_The_NerdMikachu: Okay, fine, go to the "View TagCache Info" page and scroll.
01:54:35Mikachui don't have tagcache compiled in :P
01:54:42Mikachubut if you say so i believe you
01:54:46Paul_The_NerdIt happens there.
01:55:15Paul_The_NerdTook me a while to figure out a screen where nothing happened when you scroll
01:55:44dunnhardeep, playlist catalog "abc.m3u > context menu >playlist >view displays the contents of the playlist, remove from this list,
01:56:52dunnexcept that it doesn't permanently remove the track from the list, dont know whether this behaviour is inetentional
01:57:14hardeepdunn: yes, you need to save the playlist before exiting the viewer
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01:57:27hardeepdunn: menu->save playlist from the playlist viewer
01:57:41dunnah thank you, so its intentional
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02:00
02:00:11dunnhardeep, is it still neccessary to place the playlist catalog c and h files in the apps folder ?
02:00:28hardeepdunn: no, the patch automatically creates them
02:00:52MikachuPaul_The_Nerd: at any rate, redrawing the menu "helps" with the bug
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02:04:46dunnthanks folks
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02:06:15EbErTwas there an answer to my backdrop question?
02:06:39EbErTyes, some from the internet, but i'd like to make one from a logo of an opensource game i use
02:06:58Mikachuuse any image program
02:07:26Mikachuif you are on linux you can probably just do convert image.jpg -resize WIDTHxHEIGHT! backdrop.bmp
02:07:35Mikachuwhere width and height are your target's lcd size
02:09:08EbErTdoes it have to be a certain size bitmap to work?
02:09:25Mikachuyes, if you want to use it as a backdrop in rockbox
02:09:31Mikachuit also has to be a 24bit bmp
02:09:39EbErTi mean size as in ..
02:09:43EbErTyes, 24bit
02:09:44EbErTok
02:09:55Mikachuas a consequence, they will always be the same size in bytes too
02:10:11Paul_The_NerdMikachu: Yes, redrawing is definitely not as fast as would be nice
02:10:28EbErTthere's probably a converter for it in fireworks i guess
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02:14:19EbErTmidkay: an interface to quickly change backdrops would be nice
02:14:33EbErTso you can do combinations of wps and backdrops
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02:16:25Paul_The_NerdYou can already do combinations of WPSes and backdrops...
02:16:47sharpe'lo people.
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02:19:07Novushow do u get back to apple firmware?
02:19:30Paul_The_NerdHold Menu while booting.
02:19:31midkayEbErT, you can already define wps and non-wps backdrops, yeah..
02:19:50sharpemikday!
02:19:52Mikachuyou can only change the non-wps backdrop without editing files
02:19:55sharpedyslexia!
02:20:06Mikachuunless i'm overlooking something
02:20:12Mikachud stands for lysdexia!
02:21:23midkaysharpy.
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02:21:29midkayyou haven't been in gw for like. a week.
02:21:33sharpeyeah.
02:21:42Paul_The_NerdMikachu: Yeah, the WPS defines its own backdrop, but if your WPS doesn't *have* a %X tag, it uses the menu backdrop.
02:21:44EbErTmidkay: i haven't gotten into it too much yet, dunno how to define them
02:22:16midkayEbErT, the wps-backdrop is defined in the .wps file ( %X|whatever.bmp| i believe).
02:22:56EbErTso if you take out the %X, you can replace the menu backdrop with the one you want?
02:23:07EbErTthat would seem easier than defining it to change
02:23:13midkaywhat?
02:23:19sharpethat's the wps background...
02:23:32midkaythe %X tag defines a background for the WPS.
02:23:46midkayif it's not in your WPS file, i believe that rockbox uses the fg/bg colors instead.
02:23:55EbErToh, ok
02:23:58EbErTjust a color
02:24:06EbErTyes, that makes sense
02:24:34midkay.. in the WPS, that is.
02:24:38Paul_The_NerdEbErT: To set the Menu backdrop, you just click and hold Select on a .bmp of the appropriate size and choose "Set as Backdrop"
02:24:54Paul_The_NerdThey only save across reboots if they're in the /.rockbox/backdrops folder though
02:25:24EbErTwhere in the menu can i find the .bmp's?
02:25:29sharpei am reusing my palm pilot as an lcd display...
02:26:19Paul_The_NerdI didn't say anything about a menu...
02:26:41Paul_The_NerdI mean, I said to set the backdrop FOR the menu
02:26:53EbErTyaya, i'm not communicating clearly
02:27:02Paul_The_NerdBut I didn't say to do anything in the menu structure... the backdrops are files on the disk, so you find them by browsing the filetree..
02:27:10EbErThow do i access the .bmp's
02:27:15EbErTwhere do i put them
02:27:19EbErTin backdrops?
02:27:51Paul_The_NerdI told you everything you need to do.
02:28:03EbErToh, just where you put it
02:28:05EbErTalright
02:28:08EbErTgot it
02:28:16EbErTsorry i'm slow! :)
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02:30:15sharpeoh no!
02:30:26sharpei must fix the lcd line!
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02:42:10christianhi all
02:42:45sharpegood morrow to you.
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03:12:26EbErThow do i change how many bits a bitmap has?
03:12:39EbErTlike from 8-24
03:13:00EbErTno, just to save it to a certain amount from, say, a jpeg
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03:18:59EbErTnevermind, figured it out :)
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03:25:19sharpeglad we could help.
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03:56:20pussfelleri dont know if its a bug in rb, or the patch i installed for the theme, but when I scroll thru menus, it only goes so far and then jumps to the bottom ofthe list
03:56:36pussfellerthis just started happening
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03:57:12midkaywhich patch?
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05:16:44rockomy sister has an ipod video, rockbox works fine on it
05:17:03rockobut when she plugs it into her docking station it keeps rebooting
05:17:12BHSPitLappy2yeah
05:17:18rockothat's just the way it is?
05:17:29BHSPitLappy2when rockbox starts, it detects whether there's a cable plugged in
05:17:29sharpetell her to hold menu as she plugs it in...
05:17:34BHSPitLappy2if there is, it reboots to diskmode
05:17:34EbErThold the menu
05:17:40BHSPitLappy2(unless you hold MENU like sharpe said)
05:17:45sharpego me!
05:17:50EbErTgo sharpe!
05:17:57BHSPitLappy2go grapefruit!
05:18:12sharpeeither that's a random comment, or an insult to my responiveness.
05:18:19rudefyetgo pancakes!
05:18:30BHSPitLappy2meh, grapefruit are just my favorite things to cheer on.
05:18:40BHSPitLappy2it's a simpsons reference
05:18:41BHSPitLappy2move on!
05:18:42EbErTgrapefruit is a solid fruit
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05:21:09rockoi tried that
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05:24:59sharpewhat, grapefruit?
05:24:59rockoit still reboots and such.
05:25:27sharpeokay, when you say rebooting, you mean, a cycle of booting, reboot, etc?
05:25:29Paul_The_Nerdrocko: Are you already booted and *in* Rockbox, and holding down Menu while you put it on the dock?
05:25:39rockoohhhhhhhhh
05:25:42rockono.
05:26:09sharpewhy is it always that now? first it was the holding menu, now it's being in rockbox... :'(
05:26:43rockogreat, she's sleeping now so i can't go in her room
05:27:45sharpeninja!
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05:46:08pussfellermidkay: the one on the wiki for 4g ipods
05:47:16pussfellerblack glass patch
05:47:20sharpeyay, free windows vista beta 2 !
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05:49:54Doomedhey
05:49:59sharpe'lo.
05:50:40Doomedif i install rockbox on an ipod, will it come up as an external hard drive or will have to use itunes?
05:51:10Kratosexternal drive
05:51:17Doomednice thanks
05:51:42Doomedim thinking of getting a photo cuz my H120 its getting full and i dont really like itunes
05:52:02Kratosyeah
05:52:11Kratosyou can use something like winamp
05:52:19Doomedi like media monkey
05:52:52Kratoshmm... never eard of it
05:53:01Kratos*heard
05:53:41Doomedi found it a while ago, and its got a sync function and everything, a lot easier than using explorer
05:54:26Kratoshmm nice
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05:55:20Doomedwell thanks for the help, but its late here so cya
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05:56:22midkaypussfeller, dunno..
06:00
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06:25:08Kratoswierd dude there ^^^
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06:36:35sharpeyou know what's kind of funny...
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06:39:15rudefyetthe image I see in the mirror every morning?
06:39:31sharpeother than that...
06:39:47sharpedepections of social networking websites...
06:40:20sharpehence, http://www.parentsmartz.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=category&sectionid=1&id=17&Itemid=136
06:40:56sharpeit's just funny...
06:41:04midkayhuh?
06:41:11midkaydepections? depictions?
06:41:22sharpedamn..
06:41:28midkaythat looks like some guidelines/"how to keep your kid safe".. far from a "depiction"?
06:41:32sharpeyeah, depiction.
06:41:39rudefyetany guesses on how long my battery will last tonight on my 5g iPod?
06:41:41sharpeit's in the articles.
06:41:44sharpefive hours
06:41:50sharpeat the most usually.
06:41:55rudefyetreally
06:42:04rudefyeti got 9 1/2 hours about a week ago
06:42:09midkayi've had more..
06:42:29sharpei don't quite know, i always fall asleep when i've mine on.
06:42:52rudefyetoh...well I'm running the battery benchmark
06:44:34sharpeah. i do know mine.
06:44:39rudefyetif i can pull off a better time them the ones posted on the wiki...i'll just have to post it on the wiki myself
06:44:52sharpewhat times are in the wiki?
06:45:07rudefyeti think the longest is 10 hours 42 minutes
06:45:39sharpehmm...
06:45:42sharpeor maybe i don't...
06:45:52rudefyetthat was w/ 256kbps Vorbis
06:47:14rudefyet10 hours 14 minutes
06:47:18rudefyeti was a bit off
06:47:24sharpeheh.
06:48:12sharpei know i have a log of mine around here somewhere...
06:49:25rudefyetI've managed to convert 2 other ipod users to rockbox in the past week
06:49:33*rudefyet gives himself a high five
06:49:39rudefyetyeah...I'm lame
06:49:46sharpehigh five myself no friends.
06:53:52sharpei need to learn this internet lingo, these website speak of.
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07:00:44sharpehey midkay, i don't suppose, but have you ever looked at that source for the space invaders port?
07:01:00midkayno, have you gone to hell yet? ;)
07:01:24sharpenot quite.
07:01:44sharpei completely forgot about that until now
07:02:54midkay'that'?
07:03:28sharpespace invaders port
07:03:54sharpethe whole thought process that led me to that is weird.
07:04:08midkayhaha.
07:05:24sharpeooh, according to my pda, my processor has risen 10 degrees and the temperature somewhere else has risen six degrees.
07:05:33sharpeer, in my computer.
07:07:28midkayfascination.
07:07:46sharpenon indignation.
07:10:42sharpe... i need to find something to work on.
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08:28:21muesli|delhihow many characters can be put into the comment box in mp3s?
08:28:47B4gderyou mean an id3 v2 comment tag?
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08:29:04muesli|delhiyepp B4gder
08:30:18B4gderI don't think there's any particular restriction
08:31:08B4gderbut I'm no id3 guru
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08:31:31muesli|delhiA prayer for cutting attachments - this puja is an offering to SHIVA, the emodiment of pure consciousness, knowledge, innocence and bliss. Suitable before or after meditation
08:31:40muesli|delhithis fitted at least ;)
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09:02:27B4gderwow
09:02:46B4gdeririver h1x0 models in stock
09:03:45preglowwhere?
09:03:55 Join ender` [0] (i=null@84.52.165.220)
09:04:01B4gderwww.directman.com
09:04:07B4gderSwedish shop
09:04:16preglowso i see
09:04:18preglownew stock?
09:04:19preglowwow
09:04:20B4gderclaimed to be "new produced"
09:04:22preglowyeah
09:04:24preglowhmm
09:04:35preglowwill be fun to see if the hardware's the exact same
09:04:46B4gderindeed
09:05:03B4gderbut it'd surprise me if it isn't
09:05:27midkaypretty expensive, isn't that?
09:06:10midkayH120 for 2600sek (usd ~$350).. i've seen new ones on ebay for less than half that, i'm pretty sure..
09:06:27B4gderyes it is expensive
09:06:41B4gderand Swedish stores are always more expensive than ebay
09:06:54midkayah.
09:07:12midkayinteresting though.
09:07:20B4gderand iaudio x5s are similarly priced in sweden
09:07:29 Join rudefyet_ [0] (n=bobdole@70-35-150-127.ironoh.adelphia.net)
09:07:30B4gderperhaps slightly cheaper, but not by much
09:07:45midkayah..
09:08:23midkaybedtime for me, nite all..
09:12:31crwldid I read correctly that there's no remote control included? :o
09:13:02B4gderyes
09:13:52crwlstrange
09:14:38crwlwell, I'm happy my H120 is still as good as new, or in fact a lot better with rockbox and 2200 mAh battery :)
09:14:54B4gder... but you can still buy one paying extra
09:15:15crwlyep
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09:27:09webguest98if a ptach is in txt form, can i apply it in the same manner as the others ?
09:27:40LinusNyes
09:27:50LinusNthe file name doesn't matter
09:28:21JdGordonhey all
09:28:27JdGordoneveryone having a ncie long-weekend?
09:28:30webguest98thanks Linus
09:29:35webguest98JdGordon, i tried to patch your random_insert patch but it gave me hunk failures with vmware, i applied other patches successfully
09:30:03JdGordonive seen a emssage ont he forums that its out of sync.. so ill fix it up later tonight
09:30:11webguest98ta
09:30:14JdGordonnot really paying much attanetion to it untill after the freeze
09:30:41webguest98ah, but that will only happen when hell freezes over, ;))))
09:31:35webguest98just a tiny joke, I do aprrecaite all the work that goes into rockbox
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09:35:13sharpei've a message on the forums!
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09:36:20LinusNsharpe: we all do
09:37:56sharpebut. i feel special when i do.
09:40:13LinusN:-)
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09:41:56sharpenow, i just need to find something to do after i'm finished with this message.
09:44:36sharpeyay
09:44:47preglowcan anyone explain to me if i have any chance at all of understanding how alsamixer coupled with a soundblaster live is supposed to work?
09:45:33crwlso it doesn't? :P
09:45:39sharpewouldn't it be amazing if i could?
09:47:56*B4gder gets his hands dirty by python
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09:49:15JdGordonwhat does green highluighting mean in the ls -l output?
09:49:35crwlthe execute bit, I think
09:50:07JdGordonon folders sorry
09:50:08B4gderLS_COLORS controls the colouring
09:50:46sharpehow many of the *average* *for-the-looks* rockbox ipod users do you think would be interested in having their bootloader customized in a settings file, as an alternative to the customized bootloaders that one person was offering? (of course, despite the fact booting would take longer. :) )
09:50:58crwlJdGordon, same thing probably
09:51:03crwloh, not.
09:51:29JdGordondrwxr-xr-x 2 family family 4096 2006-06-11 20:58 recordings
09:51:29JdGordondrwxrwxrwx 5 root root 4096 2006-05-07 14:50 torrents
09:51:39JdGordontorrents is highlisted green recordings isnt
09:52:45LinusNsharpe: customized in what way?
09:53:12crwljdgordon, you mean green background? looks like it comes from o+w
09:53:29JdGordonye, green background
09:53:29sharpeeh, suppose... foreground/background colors, watermark (such as their name)... those such things.
09:54:00sharpemaybe a certain boot order with which keys boot what...
09:54:15LinusNsharpe: well, i'm not the person to speak for that crowd...
09:54:23sharpeneither am i...
09:55:05LinusNbut i believe it shouldn't steal *that* much time, since the disk is already spinning when the rockbox loader is run, isn't it?
09:55:13sharpei'm just the one willing to code the extra functionality in. :D
09:55:23sharpeyeah, true.
09:56:48sharpeeverytime i look on my shelf, i mistake my pda for my ipod :\
09:56:59sharpeeven though they're completely different.
09:57:52sharpeeh, it'd give people their own sense of personalization. :D
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10:00
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10:17:22sharpewhat would be a good name for the configuration file...
10:18:21linuxstb_boot.ini ? I wouldn't use ".cfg" because those are for Rockbox config files.
10:18:27 Nick linuxstb_ is now known as linuxstb (n=linuxstb@i-83-67-212-170.freedom2surf.net)
10:18:36sharpesounds good to me.
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10:21:04B4gderstrictly speaking it doesn't even need a specific extension
10:21:51sharpe:D
10:23:27peturwhat would be the speed difference of binary file versus parsed text file?
10:23:37B4gdernone
10:23:44B4gderit would just make it awkward
10:24:00sharpeno discernable difference, yay!
10:24:07*B4gder is a firm believer in text based config files
10:24:13*petur too
10:24:29*sharpe agrees for the sake of the argument.
10:24:39peturbut a two-file system for speedup is nice too
10:24:47linuxstbA "Bootloader config" plugin to edit values in the "boot.inI" (or whatever you call it) could also be useful.
10:24:58B4gderah, indeed
10:25:03sharpeyay!
10:25:29sharpei believe it will be boot.ini...
10:26:26peturyou could dump the memory of config in a binary file with version nr and crc of course, and fall back to the text based one on version or crc failure
10:26:48peturand always write both when saving
10:26:59B4gderI don't think you'd gain anything noticable with that
10:27:07linuxstbI agree - just keep it simple...
10:27:19peturwell if parsing is fast enough then it's ok for me
10:27:19JdGordonare u only making the ipod bootloader customizable? or the start screen on all targets?
10:27:48sharperight now, only the ipod, but probably expand it to all the other targets, i don't see why not...
10:27:57linuxstbIf sharpe puts the code in a separate .c file in bootloader/, then it could be shared by both bootloaders.
10:28:02LinusNbecause the other targets will be a lot slower?
10:28:19linuxstbBut doesn't the disk have to spin to load rockbox.XXXX ?
10:28:39sharpei think it may be spinning already :\
10:28:44sharpeas it sounds like it.
10:28:47linuxstbsharpe: On the ipod, yes.
10:28:48B4gdersharpe: on the ipod, yes
10:28:48LinusNon the ipod yes
10:28:51LinusN:-)
10:28:52B4gderhahaha
10:28:55sharpescore!
10:28:56linuxstbscary....
10:29:05LinusNwow
10:29:11sharpeamazing.
10:29:18B4gderare we turning into clones? ;-)
10:29:48*LinusN plays "I think I'm a clone now"
10:30:04*linuxstb goes to make coffee and expects B4gder and LinusN to do the same
10:30:15*LinusN obeys
10:30:25*B4gder goes for coffee
10:30:38*LinusN goes north
10:30:53*LinusN picks up the sword
10:31:31***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
10:31:43peturhahaha
10:31:44sharpeshould it print a message if it cannot load/detect any settings?
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10:33:22LinusNnow this is where the boot config gets interesting
10:33:38sharpe:)
10:34:10LinusNi think it should say so along with the other boot messages
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10:35:06natemicis anyone awake?
10:35:07JdGordonno.. it should just load default settings.. why bother with letting the user know the config couldnt be read.. unless there is a file which would be expected to be read but that failed..
10:35:17natemicapparently so
10:35:22JdGordonzzzzz....
10:35:27sharpenope, it's sleep typing.
10:35:27natemicis there another way to hard reset an ipod
10:35:40sharpewait until the battery dies :D
10:35:40natemici switch from the rockbox to ipod interface all the time
10:35:54natemicexcept now it wont let me hard reset and boot under the rockbox interface
10:35:54sharpeother than holding select and menu, you mean?
10:36:08natemicyes, other than that, because that doesnt work for some reason
10:36:41sharpebut rockbox works fine?
10:37:20natemicno, the ipod interface works fine
10:37:22linuxstbnatemic: So holding PLAY for a few seconds doesn't shut down Rockbox?
10:37:26natemicand i usually can switch
10:37:38natemicim stuck in ipod
10:37:39sharpewait, i've got it; how about a setting in the settings file that determines if there should be a message printed? :D
10:37:51sharpeyou're stuck in the apple firmware?
10:37:54natemicif i hold play it shuts down soft
10:37:59natemicyes, stuck with the apple firmware
10:38:03linuxstbnatemic: So what happens if you hold MENU+SELECT ?
10:38:05JdGordonna, just display a message if the file exists but cant be read correctly
10:38:09natemicnothing
10:38:13sharpeis the hard disk spinning?
10:38:13JdGordonno message if it doesnt exsits
10:38:43natemicwow, amazing, it just hard reset while i held play and the menu button, not select nad the menu button
10:38:54LinusNJdGordon: what's wrong with a message? i mean, it displays several lines of text anyway
10:38:57natemicmy ipod has a mind of its own, thanks though guys
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10:39:18JdGordonwell.. nothing really.. i dunno
10:39:41petura fancy graphic bootloader :D
10:39:53sharpebecause everyone loves graphics
10:40:25linuxstbYou can't use any of the functions (such as the bmp reader) from apps/ in the bootloader.
10:40:54*JdGordon doesnt see the point of customizable bootloader... but opening screen i do
10:41:17sharpeJdGordon: it's something to keep me occupied
10:41:21JdGordonha
10:41:40JdGordonarnt there something like 90 open bugs that need fixing.. :p
10:41:55sharpe:)
10:42:37JdGordonapart from the obvious... is there any logical reason why the playlist doesnt like you adding non-exsistant files to the playlist?
10:43:59B4gder"the playlist" doesn't add files
10:44:03B4gderit contains files
10:44:31JdGordonright, but when u add files which dont exists they come up as <err> in the playlist.
10:45:03B4gderthat's because of the add function
10:45:11B4gdernot because of the playlist (concept)
10:47:50LinusNnow why would you add non-existant files to the playlist?
10:47:50linuxstbJdGordon: Are you saying you want to be able to add non-existent files?
10:48:06JdGordonwhich add function? add_track_to_playlist? the file isnt checked there..
10:48:11JdGordonyup.. for .cue support
10:48:22*B4gder shrugs
10:48:28B4gderif you want that
10:48:35B4gderyou need to do a major surgery
10:48:40LinusNi don't think adding bogus files to the playlist is the correct solution
10:48:56B4gdernot only does it seem wrong, it'll take some heavy mods
10:49:05petur[10:41] <JdGordon> arnt there something like 90 open bugs that need fixing.. tongue
10:49:09JdGordonmy idea is to add each track as a fake file and have the playback codedc load the real file at the position..
10:49:29LinusNJdGordon: how do you handle shuffle in that case?
10:49:31B4gderhow would you know the file is a "fake" cue one?
10:49:46JdGordonfilename like blaa.mp3.1.cued
10:49:52JdGordonfrom blaa.cue
10:50:02LinusNhmmm
10:50:15LinusNmaybe it isn't such a bad idea after all
10:50:37JdGordonthe part that beond me is the actual loading the correct position
10:50:49B4gderand what if the cue file name already uses (close to) 256 bytes? ;-)
10:51:05sharpehmm... do we have any function to convert from a hex string to an integer?
10:51:06JdGordonB4gder: yup, thats the big problem i keep runnig into
10:51:52LinusNi think you could add some metadata to the playlist command file
10:51:55JdGordoni thought about having a cuecache file which hashes the cue file and instead of adding blaa.mp3.1.cued it adds the hash.1.cued and then the codec gets all the info from the file...
10:52:04B4gdersharpe: sscanf()
10:52:11sharpeah, thank you.
10:52:36JdGordonthe problem with that is the user doesnt know the name of the track in the playlist
10:52:52JdGordonenlarge the buffer to MAX_PATH*2 :p
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10:53:34linuxstbIMO, the playlist concept needs extending to point to sub-tracks within a file. So a playlist entry would consist of the filename and the subtrack number (or possibly the start/end times within the file).
10:53:46LWihey everybody. is there a documentation on the plugin api? i seem to be to dumb to find one
10:53:55JdGordonplugin.h
10:53:57B4gderLWi: apps/plugin.h ;-)
10:53:57LinusNLWi: no, not really
10:54:05sharpewait.
10:54:06linuxstbapps/plugins/*.c
10:54:08sharpei'll say it too.
10:54:19sharpeplugin.h!
10:54:20LinusNlinuxstb: that's probably inevitable for a clean solution
10:54:22B4gderhttp://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/HowtoWritePlugins
10:54:41sharpedocs/PLUGIN_API
10:54:46B4gderahahha
10:54:48LinusNalso, we could have use for a seek point for the fiile entries as well
10:54:53sharpeheheh...
10:55:09LinusNnice for mixing
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10:56:16LWisharpe: much too obvious. thanks :-)
10:56:16LWimy problem is i wrote an alarm clock plugin ages ago for the recorder and i want to port it to iPod mini, but all the mp3 playback functions i use are doing nothing
10:56:34sharpemuaha, i shall type 'colour' instead of 'color'
10:57:15tucozI noticed that a fix for the play-select (in french) was committed today. Is there still a discussion on whether we should call joy-press select/joystick/navi?
10:58:15linuxstbLWi: I think you need to use the audio_* functions - look at apps/plugins/lib/playback_control.[ch] - that's the playback control menu used by some plugins.
10:58:53tucozhmm, maybe commit wasn't a fix for that.
10:59:03JdGordonlong int for seek position? or int is enough?
10:59:08tucoz*that
10:59:40LWi linuxstb: thanks.
11:00
11:00:07markunwouldn't we also need to specify the length or end position?
11:00:13linuxstbJdGordon: off_t
11:00:34JdGordonta
11:00:52tucozmarkun, nice game yesterday. Congratulations
11:01:08markunI didn't watch it.
11:01:24tucozI did :)
11:01:44petursports are for doing, not watching
11:01:45markunI have a german passport so these days nobody likes me :)
11:02:13markunhere in my house and at work
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11:02:39JdGordonjdgordon.homeip.net:8080/playlist.diff">http://jdgordon.homeip.net:8080/playlist.diff <- look good
11:02:39tucozpetur, world cup is for watching, not doing
11:02:39JdGordon?
11:02:55*linuxstb would be happy to play in the world cup, if invited
11:03:07*JdGordon hopes asutralia doesnt make it to the 2nd round :p
11:03:11peturadmit you just want the money
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11:06:11amiconnpetur: I tried accessing the isp1362 last night, but failed...
11:06:19petur:(
11:06:36*petur wonders what we're doing wrong
11:06:47amiconnWe must miss something fundamental
11:06:53peturindeed
11:07:04JdGordonthe times in the cue sheet are mm:ss:frame how do i convert that to off_t? is it codec dependant?
11:07:05peturfrustrating chip, isn't it?
11:07:18amiconnThe CS3 setup definitely works, because otherwise we would get a bus hang when trying to access 0xc000????
11:08:21sharpeshould it be safe to assume people will only use the four keys (eg: left, right, menu, play) for the boot selection?
11:08:32 Quit rudefyet_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
11:08:32peturamiconn: maybe critical timing? the iriver code had nop's... but I tried many combinations already
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11:13:36LinusNpetur, amiconn: the isp1632 is connected in a weird way
11:13:42linuxstbJdGordon: Ah, seek offsets for codecs are specified in milliseconds. "off_t" is used for the lseek() function, which is what I thought you meant.
11:14:05JdGordonso change it to long int?
11:14:20linuxstbCheck playback.[ch] and see what types are used there.
11:14:29JdGordonk
11:14:48*petur didn't know playback was Swiss
11:14:51LinusNpetur, amiconn: i mean, CS is connected to GPIO11
11:15:37peturLinusN: isn't that CS3?
11:15:56LinusNwait a sec, maybe i'm a total idiot
11:16:47peturit's a GPIO with special function
11:17:00peturunless the wiki is wrong
11:17:17LinusNyes i am
11:18:44JdGordonlooks like unsigned int, ha, max track length is like 1200hours :O
11:19:01LinusNunsigned long
11:19:14B4gder32 bit in ms is ~50 days
11:19:26B4gderevery embedded developer knows ;-)
11:19:35LinusN:-)
11:19:45LinusNand win95 devs too
11:19:49B4gderhahaha
11:19:49LinusNnowadays
11:19:50tucozhehe
11:19:54 Quit rudefyet (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
11:19:59peturwhich is about the time win98 would crash because of its tickcounter overflow
11:20:22peturheh .. damn lag and slow typing
11:20:27tucozreally? a forced reboot every month and a half
11:20:43LinusN50 days uptime for win98 would be a world record anyway
11:21:52obohow long does current_tick take to overflow?
11:22:18LinusN~500 days
11:22:24LinusNi believe
11:22:53B4gdernow, what is the current Rockbox uptime record?; -)
11:23:03LinusNlol
11:23:11B4gderI once ran it for many hours! ;-O
11:23:30LinusNwithout crashing? naaaah
11:23:39linuxstbDidn't a restaurant owner post to the mailing list saying he keeps his Archos devices playing 24/7 ?
11:23:51LinusNi believe so
11:24:06B4gdershould be a record candidate
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11:26:46linuxstbhttp://www.rockbox.org/mail/archive/rockbox-archive-2006-02/0260.shtml
11:26:54linuxstbClaims a full year of continuous playback...
11:29:28peturchristmas songs... yuck
11:29:40LinusNall year...yuck!
11:29:45LinusN:-/
11:29:52JdGordonsscanf is in rb right?
11:30:16LinusNyup
11:30:30LinusNfirmware/common/sscanf.c
11:30:57sharpewow
11:31:05JdGordonphew :p
11:31:07sharpei was just looking for that file too.
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11:31:23LinusNmost string functions are in that dir
11:31:30LinusNif not all
11:32:53amiconnpetur: I know that the iriver code has nops, and I replicated them. I don't think it's a timing problem though, but rather some incorrect setup
11:33:27amiconnI get plain zeros when trying to read the 1362 id registers
11:33:32amiconn(both hc and dc)
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11:37:16Amienanyone got a sec .. i got a few questions
11:37:30LinusNshoot
11:37:41Amiendoes rockbox make a dualboot .. or replaces the firmware?
11:38:16sharpedepends on your player... :D
11:38:20Amien5g
11:38:28sharpeyou can triple boot with it.
11:38:47Amienhow can i reboot? just turn it on/off?
11:39:08sharpefor rebooting, holding select and menu...
11:39:47linuxstbIn Rockbox, it's best to turn off and then back on. The Apple firmware doesn't give you that option - you have to do a hard reset.
11:40:38Amienis it possible to remove rockbox and remove the dualboot
11:41:00linuxstbOf course. The installation page contains uninstallation instructions as well (at least the Windows version of the instructions does...)
11:41:01sharpeyou mean, revert to the original firmware ?
11:41:10Amiennice :)
11:41:18Amienyes . only the original firmware
11:41:20sharpeyep.
11:41:30sharpelike linuxstb said :D
11:41:34Amienand i can drag/drop just files into the ipod right?
11:41:37sharpesi
11:41:39linuxstbBut the original firmware never properly shuts down, so once you start it, you are always there.
11:41:48Amienso bought anapod for nothing :)
11:41:51linuxstbSo you don't really lose anything by leaving Rockbox installed.
11:42:40Amienfinal question : i can bookmark mp3's with rockbox right? .. but can i put multibookmarks in it?
11:42:59linuxstbI think so, but I don't use the bookmarking feature.
11:43:22Amieni listing to alot of livesets of DJ's .. and than bookmarking is really a must
11:43:30Amiencause an mp3 is 1-2 hours
11:43:45LinusNyes, you can have multiple bookmarks
11:44:06Amiengreat . gonna install it .. tnx for the answers
11:44:23sharpehmm... lets say, i use a function that just so happens to be in /apps/misc.c/.h for the bootloader... would anyone suggest, copying the code, or just including the file?
11:44:34sharpeer, the custom oen.
11:44:35sharpeone.
11:44:50linuxstbAmien: You can split your long mp3s and still get gapless playback in Rockbox - no need to keep them as one file.
11:45:27Amieneven better :)
11:49:00LinusNsharpe: i don't know what would be the cleanest solution, copying the file doesn't seem right, though
11:50:02linuxstbOne option would be to move it to firmware/. What function is it?
11:50:19sharpeactually, it's...
11:50:41sharpetwo. setings_parseline, read_line.
11:50:54sharpethey're bothing in apps/misc.c/.h though
11:50:57sharpeboth...
11:54:48linuxstbI think I would just copy them...
11:58:05amiconnLoading a settings file in the bootloader?????
11:58:13sharpe;)
11:59:45sharpehmm. strange. undefined reference to 'sscanf'
12:00
12:01:28sharpehahah.
12:01:36sharpei now have it built.
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12:12:11sharpewoo, i know how to have the apple display at boot, permanently.
12:13:58JdGordon * Example: 04:18:63 = 4 minutes, 18 seconds, 63 frames
12:13:58JdGordon * Note that the maximum allowed value for CDDA frames is 74.
12:14:05JdGordondoes that mean 74frames/sec?
12:15:33zeJdGordon: from cdparanoia man page "75 sectors per second"
12:16:30JdGordonta, so that how many milliseconds? (frames/75*1000)?
12:17:18sharpewell, i know it's in a loop somewhere.
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12:22:38Amiengrr . i get a rockbox -1 error when rebooting
12:22:53Amienthats bad right?
12:22:56sharpeno
12:23:02JdGordonhave u got the .rockbox folder?
12:23:11Amienon my HD?
12:23:14sharpejust means you do not have rockbox.ipod in the root of the drive, nor /.rockbox/
12:23:31Amienok .. so now just step 2?
12:24:22sharpeand what is step two?
12:25:03Paul_The_NerdAmien: Yes, if you mean "Install Rockbox"
12:25:19Amiengot it ..tnx
12:25:23Amienpheuh :)
12:26:20Paul_The_NerdIt even says in the installation, don't worry if you got a screen full of blue text and it froze.
12:26:26Paul_The_NerdBlue screen full of text, rather
12:26:48Paul_The_NerdI changed it so that it explicitly mentions the "Rockbox Error: -1" message now, though. Just to be nice. :-P
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12:30:50Amieni copied all the files into to root .. but still -1 ..
12:31:11Amienand why does rockbox bootloader not load the original firmware after the -1?
12:31:33***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
12:32:17linuxstbAmien: What happens after the bootloader displays "-1"? It sounds like your installation has gone wrong.
12:35:31Amienforgot the rockbox.ipod file
12:35:37Amienwell .. rockbox is working now ..
12:35:54Amienbut the bootloader failed to load the original firmware when i got the -1 error
12:38:59linuxstbIn which case your installation went wrong. What did the bootloader display when it failed to load the original firmware?
12:39:31Paul_The_Nerdlinuxstb: Many people have the bootloader not falling back to retail when -1, apparently.
12:39:52linuxstbPaul_The_Nerd: Can they load the original firmware by pressing MENU?
12:40:42Paul_The_NerdYup
12:40:53Paul_The_NerdAt least, any of the ones I've talked with have.
12:41:56Paul_The_NerdAmien: Can you load the Retail firmware?
12:41:58linuxstbDoes the bootloader display "Loading original firmware" ?
12:42:14Paul_The_NerdAmien: By rebooting and holding Menu?
12:42:36Paul_The_Nerdlinuxstb: My understanding was that the Error: -1 was the last message but I'm not 100% certain.
12:42:54Amienno i cant
12:43:28Paul_The_NerdWhat happens?
12:43:29linuxstbPaul_The_Nerd: That's very odd then. The next thing the bootloader does after displaying "Rockbox error: -1" is to display "Loading original firmware..."
12:43:52Amieni have that too . .but than i keeping rebooting
12:44:02Paul_The_Nerdlinuxstb: I could be wrong. Very often it's someone who has the problem, I get them to Rockbox working, and they vanish, so I've never had much chance to ask questions.
12:44:23Paul_The_NerdAmien: "Keep Rebooting"?
12:44:32Amienyes ..
12:44:50Paul_The_NerdThat was a question. As in "what do you mean by 'keep rebooting'?"
12:45:14Paul_The_NerdYou hold MENU, it says "Loading Original Firmware" and then?
12:45:14Amienwell .. i get the Loading original firmware..." message .. when blankscreen .. and than the same text again
12:45:21Paul_The_NerdAh
12:45:35Paul_The_NerdWell that's definitely a broken install then.
12:45:37Amienblank .. and than over and over again same text
12:45:44Amieni'm i fucked now?
12:46:31Amiencause rockbox itself works fine
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12:46:57Paul_The_NerdIf you don't need the retail firmware for anything, you should be fine.
12:47:14Paul_The_NerdI'm curious what step needs to be done wrong to cause this though
12:47:26Paul_The_Nerdlinuxstb_: So, in this case, if you missed it, it's definitely a bad install.
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12:47:58Amienbut its not possible to uninstall it all?
12:48:09linuxstb_Paul_The_Nerd: I would be very surprised if it's not always a bad install.
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12:48:36linuxstbAmien: Are you following the Windows installation instructions in the wiki?
12:48:41Amienyes
12:48:54Paul_The_Nerdlinuxstb: It's possible it is. I rarely have the chance to ask more than a couple questions, as most are happy to leave once Rockbox works. But I've not had *anyone* report a permanent inability to get into Apple...
12:49:20linuxstbAmien: Did you say you had a 5g?
12:49:33Amienyap
12:49:47Paul_The_NerdWhich install step would allow you to create a bootloader that works for rockbox but doesn't end up with the Apple_Os built in? The last ipod_fw one?
12:50:21linuxstbHow big are the following files you created during the install process? bootpartition.bin, apple_os.bin, apple_sw_5g_rcsc.bin and rockboot.bin
12:50:40linuxstbPaul_The_Nerd: Pretty much any step going wrong will cause that.
12:51:24Paul_The_Nerdlinuxstb: I was just wondering, because most of them either don't create the necessary output file, or give you all kinds of warnings if you do them wrong, I though.
12:52:12linuxstbIt implies that the final step to create rockboot.bin worked, but the apple_os.bin (and/or the rcsc file for the 5g) are corrupted.
12:55:33JdGordondoes anyone in here actually use cue sheets?
12:56:12B4gderI doubt that
12:56:15linuxstbYes. :)
12:56:36*B4gder jumps
12:57:14JdGordonis it likely to have more than 32 tracks in a cue?
12:57:14crashdi do
12:57:17linuxstbI make long recordings from radio broadcasts (as MP2 files), and index them using cue files.
12:57:19crashdespecialy for long mixes
12:57:30linuxstbJdGordon: The standard allows for 99 tracks - so you should try and support that.
12:57:37JdGordonoh ok
12:58:18Amienbootpartition was 80000kb .. apple_sw was 5000kb 5g_rsr was 5000kb
12:59:02linuxstbapple_sw and 5g_rcsc are identical in size, or slightly different?
12:59:04Paul_The_NerdJdGordon: What way were you going about implementing CUEs? Treating them as playlists, or treating each subsong as its own whole track?
12:59:28JdGordonbit of both
13:00
13:00:32JdGordonumm.. more each subsong is its own track
13:01:18Amienwas my original apple_os not built in?
13:01:18Paul_The_NerdSo you could have a playlist that only includes one subsong from a .cue?
13:01:34Paul_The_NerdAmien: That doesn't actually answer his question...
13:02:06JdGordonumm, hopefully, not sure how you go about adding individual tracks tho.. possibly like a virtual folder in the dir tree
13:02:24Amienwhat was the question?
13:02:25JdGordonstatic struct cuesheet_info cuesheet = {0}; <- does that zero the whole struct on load?
13:02:29linuxstbapple_sw and 5g_rcsc are identical in size, or slightly different?
13:02:47Amienidentical
13:02:58linuxstbThen that's the error. They have different sizes.
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13:03:23Amienand now?
13:03:29Amienrecreate those files?
13:03:32linuxstbYou need to pass "-e 0" to ipod_fw to extract apple_os.bin and "-e 1" to extract the rsrc file.
13:03:56linuxstbYes - start from step d) in the instructions and try again.
13:03:59Paul_The_NerdJdGordon: How 'bout, treating the .cue (or embedded cue) as a playlist if someone loads it in filetree (you can't put individual tracks in separate playlists there, at least not easily as you need to insert the whole .cue then remove subtracks) but have TagCache use the .cue to index individual tracks. That way there's no questionability of the Filetree showing virtual entries.
13:05:51JdGordonwell, im working on loading the cue into a struct so its up to the tree/id3 browser to deal with the actual displaying however they want. adding to the playlist will be simple and would work for both ways
13:08:37JdGordon3KB to store all the info, is that acceptable for ppl that would never use the feature?
13:08:51JdGordoni mean, its that, or HEAPS of open() calls
13:10:18Amien@linuxstb .. works again
13:10:48Amienand both files now have diff siez
13:10:49Amiensize
13:11:07Paul_The_NerdI'm still not sure that CUE sheets shouldn't be handle more like bookmarks than anything else.
13:11:22Paul_The_NerdIt'd be kinda neat if there was a functionality where one could skip to the next bookmark in a file, actually...
13:11:28amiconnI'm still not sure whether cue sheets should be handled at all
13:11:30Paul_The_NerdIt'd be great for audiobooks.
13:12:24amiconnI mean, what advantage does it have to put a complete album into one cumbersome file when we have gapless?
13:12:31Paul_The_NerdNone
13:12:38Amienhow can i switch from ipod to rockbox?
13:12:54JdGordoni dont know how bookmarks are handled now, but its possible with the playlist changes that bookmarks could be made to work like that, i.e jump to next bookmark in track
13:12:55Paul_The_NerdAmien: Menu+Select held down to reboot is the only way. Apple didn't design their firmware to shut down.
13:13:28JdGordonand with a simple flag in playlist.h it can happen transparently from the user :D
13:13:48Paul_The_Nerdamiconn: Honestly I'm quite against the inclusion of CUE, and nobody's convinced me otherwise, since the only excuse I've gotten from people is "I don't want to have to split my files"
13:14:20tucozI don't know how bookmarks works, but I imagine stuff as downloaded dj-mixes, concerts, podcasts(?) etc to benefit from cue support
13:14:25Paul_The_NerdBut I also believe that if it can be included with a very very very low (or no) impact, then there's no reason really against it. 3kb isn't exactly "low" though.
13:14:34Paul_The_NerdSince that's bigger than 1% of binary size added, isn't it?
13:15:22JdGordon3kb is to store all the available info from the cue file in 1 read, instead of having to potentiall reopen the file every time some info is requested
13:15:50JdGordonwhich, when adding an entire .cue could be many, maybe up to 2/track
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13:19:31Amiensome album mp3 releases come in 1 big mp3 file .. than cue-support is very nice
13:19:38Amienor livesets of dj's
13:20:04peturmp3directcut can help too
13:20:40Amienyes .. but if i listen to a liveset .. and i hear a nice song .. i wanna bookmark it
13:20:46Amienon my ipod
13:23:04Amienwhen i new version of rockbox comes out .. i just replace .rockbox rifg
13:23:06Amienright
13:23:18Paul_The_NerdBoth the folder and the file.
13:23:27Paul_The_NerdJust extract a new build onto the player.
13:25:37Paul_The_NerdAn auto-split plugin for Foobar2000 that takes .cues and splits the files for you would just about solve the entire .cue question anyway, without increasing the rockbox binary size at all.
13:25:51Paul_The_NerdAnd of course, equivalent utilities for non-Foobar users.
13:26:03Paul_The_NerdI would imagine something that does that duty is out there, isn't it?
13:26:25tucozWould that produce gapless mp3's?
13:26:51tucozIf the file isn't encoded with lame, would the splitted mp3's be gapless?
13:27:11Paul_The_NerdAll the splitter would have to do is write the gapless information to the header, wouldn't it?
13:27:20Paul_The_NerdOr cut the file on frame boundaries
13:27:27Paul_The_NerdOn a DJ set that should be doable, right?
13:27:28JdGordonPaul_The_Nerd: not everyone uses foobar
13:27:39Paul_The_NerdJdGordon: Notice I said "Or equivalent tool"
13:27:42tucozI don't know. I don't know how the mp3-format works
13:27:53LinusNit would be dead simple to write such a tool
13:27:59B4gderI agree the nicest fix would be to write a host-side tool for this task
13:28:04LinusNor even a rockbox plugin
13:28:08JdGordonand even still, rockbox is a DAP os, so it proably should support it because its a very valid use of audio tracks... it should definatly suport this ebfore games and looks :p
13:28:11JdGordonimo..
13:28:21*Paul_The_Nerd notes that he's already suggested plugins for dealing with .CUEs, though not _that_ plugin. ;)
13:28:30LinusNi agree that it is a common thing that would be nice to support
13:28:53Paul_The_NerdMy suggestion was to simply treat a .CUE as a playlist that can't be modified.
13:29:05Paul_The_NerdHandle it with a plugin, for example using Paprica's WPS in Plugins code now that that exists.
13:30:24Paul_The_NerdI mean the whole point of .cues is for when you *don't* want to split the music, right?
13:30:48tucozLinusN, does the wpsbuild.pl script support wpsname/resolution/wpsname.wps? Or did I misunderstand something?
13:32:01LinusNit's supposed to
13:32:11tucozok
13:33:21LinusNtucoz: hmm, it seems to work like this:
13:33:47LinusNthe wps files are named <wpsname>.<resolution>.wps
13:33:56tucozyes
13:34:00LinusNand their respective bmp files are in the <resolution> dirs
13:34:21JdGordonyou frown upon code that does if (b=blaa(c)) dont you?
13:34:31LinusNehum, the <wpsname>/<resolution> dirs
13:34:47LinusNJdGordon: not if it's obvious what the code does
13:35:01JdGordonok, cool
13:35:24tucozLinusN, but the source isn't arranged that way. (unless they use the same bmp's). Now it looks like <wpsname>.<res>.wps, with all the bitmaps in the <wpsname> folder
13:35:34JdGordonbah, im using strcmp not strstr so it wont help anyway :p
13:35:49LinusNyes, the script uses <wpsname> as a fallback if there are no resolution dirs
13:36:05tucozand the bitmaps are called <wpsname>-res.bmp in case they differ from the default
13:36:12tucozoh, I see
13:36:48Paul_The_NerdWait, LinusN, maybe you're thinking of the old script?
13:36:57Paul_The_NerdDidn't it change as a means of decreasing the number of bitmaps?
13:37:09*Paul_The_Nerd could be confused.
13:37:16*LinusN too
13:37:21*tucoz too
13:37:25LinusNi only remember my last changes
13:37:46LinusNwe have discussed another approach though, but i don't think it materialized into real code
13:37:51tucozand you did the latest changes. So, you're probably right
13:40:37*Paprica is playing chopper on his h300
13:40:54amiconntucoz: I never came across a single file from the outside that used a .cue file.
13:41:21tucozTo solve both the bitmap-duplicates issue, and different font for different res, something like this could work: http://pastebin.com/704138
13:41:21amiconnThe only thing where I know cue files from (and occasionally use them) is for copying audio CDs
13:41:36amiconn(.cue + single .wav)
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13:42:05tucozamiconn, maybe you are right. I don't use cue files myself. Was just thinking of ways where they could be used.
13:42:23tucozregarding the paste, the bitmaps are arranged as currently
13:46:50linuxstbIt's not just cuefiles though - the same principle applies to chained ogg files (a silly concept though IMO), chapter marks in .m4a files (audio books use them I think), and also multi-song tracker files.
13:47:19linuxstbSo breaking rockbox's one file = one track ideology could be useful for lots of reasons.
13:47:54Paul_The_NerdHmm...
13:48:29Mikachuthere are a few formats that are one file per song, but also have a common library file for many songs
13:48:38amiconnBreaking one song == one file means introducing another playlist format
13:48:39Mikachuie minipsf and minigsf
13:48:48Mikachuin case you want to take that into account
13:49:12crashdi use .cue files with mp3 mixes
13:49:38*JdGordon has finished the .cue parseing code... hope it works :D
13:49:41amiconncrash: Any special reason why?
13:49:46tucozLinusN, what do you think of such an arrangement of the wpstree? (in case you got a minute free)
13:49:55Paul_The_NerdYou could though say that "Multiple song files are always played sequentially" and simply disallow the internal tracks from being shuffled. So, once you hit the first song in a CUE/MP3 or chained ogg, next-track always goes to the next subsong until it's done.
13:49:58amiconnI have a number of dj mixes, all properly split into individual tracksa
13:50:00crashdamiconn: so i can see track names, because it's easier to skip into a mix
13:50:12amiconnGapless is nice, and the −−nogap method even works on archos
13:50:14crashdbecause i dont see the need for 50 files for a mix, but 2 is nice
13:50:25crashdone long mp3 and the cue, to allow skipping through easy and to see where abouts you are
13:50:45JdGordonPaul_The_Nerd: that really is an unnescacery limitation... it they are handled properly they should be just like every other track
13:50:54amiconnI just don't see the difference in one cue + mega-mp3 vs. multiple mp3s... handling wise
13:51:04Paul_The_NerdJdGordon: As Amiconn said: Not without breaking the playlist format.
13:51:10amiconnFor rockbox, the .cue method means more overhead + complexity
13:51:21amiconn..and introducing another playlist format
13:51:22crashdamiconn: yeah, but people use them
13:51:28crashdwhich is kinda the point of a good jukebox, non?
13:51:34JdGordonthe change is 1 define and 3 new variables int he track struct.. i.e nothing, and no change to curent code to work fine
13:51:45MikachuJdGordon: on-disk format
13:51:52tucozbut the other issues as linuxstb pointed out are valid enough. Like tracker file formats, .sids etc
13:52:11JdGordonoh, poo... the playlist has an ondisk format like the settings does it?
13:52:19Mikachum3u?
13:52:30B4gderJdGordon: the playdisk control file is on disk yes
13:52:33amiconnWe could get away without a playlist format change, but then it wouldn't be possible to select individual tracks from a .cue
13:52:37Paul_The_NerdJdGordon: You have noticed that you have the option to *save* the playlist, right?
13:52:38JdGordonthats just a text file tho isnt it
13:52:39JdGordon?
13:52:40B4gderplaylist
13:52:41amiconn(when loading from disk)
13:52:51Mikachuyou could do some funny hack like file.cue?track1
13:52:57Mikachusince ? aren't allowed on fat anyway
13:53:08JdGordonPaul_The_Nerd: if u mean saving to m3u, then ye, we'll have to go a hacky route, everything else is easy
13:53:24Paul_The_NerdJdGordon: Saying "go a hacky route" shouldn't be done so casually...
13:53:33JdGordonhaha, yes well :p
13:53:52JdGordonby hacky, Mikachu's suggestion looks good enough
13:54:23Paul_The_NerdAssuming that other programs overlook the ?track1 bit, that means a 12-track .cue has 12 playlist entries.
13:54:37Paul_The_NerdIf a program supports .cue in a .m3u, then you'll get 12 copies of that CUE file loaded up.
13:55:15Paul_The_NerdOne of the best things about Rockbox is that since it uses a standard playlist format, you can plug it into a computer, launch your playlist, and have the same one you're used to on the device.
13:55:50Mikachuconversely, i never use m3u files in rockbox
13:55:56JdGordonm3u's take comments dont they? we can hide it behind a comment then
13:56:14LinusNtucoz: so resolution specific bitmaps would be named <bitmapname>-<resolution>.bmp?
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13:56:38tucozLinusN, yes. it looks like they are today. e.g. in the boxes dir
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13:57:40LinusNwe could also do it like it works today, with a path search
13:57:44Paul_The_NerdI suppose using comments could work.
13:58:00Mikachuamiconn is concerned another program might strip the comments
13:58:02Paul_The_NerdThough I'd still like to hear a better reason than "Because people shouldn't have to split their files" for why the binary size should increase.
13:58:07LinusNit first looks in images/<resolution>/ for the file, and if it's not there, it looks in images/
13:58:23LinusNon a file-by-file basis
13:58:27tucozyes. That is ok. But, the other issue is the font-stuff
13:58:43JdGordonPaul_The_Nerd: binary size will be tiny.. the 3kb i was talking about it RAM usage :D much worse
13:59:04LinusNyup, and that would be solved by having the WPSLIST in the resolution dir, wouldn't it?
13:59:10tucozyes
13:59:13amiconnAn option would be to allow lists-of-lists (afaik there's even a patch for that)
13:59:31amiconn...meaning one .m3u could contain paths to other playlists
14:00
14:00:01amiconnThen .cue could be handled as another playlist format, and referenced from within an .m3u
14:00:34JdGordonbut we are trying to figure out how to allow users to add individual tracks from the .cue to the m3u...
14:00:40amiconnThe restriction would be that you can't select only parts of the .cue for inclusion
14:00:57amiconnJdGordon: That's simply impossible
14:01:05Paul_The_NerdIf someone wanted to use just *one* track from a .cue, they should split the mp3.
14:01:07tucozLinusN, hmm. We would need a fallback in that case as well. In case the same wps is used for all resolutions. (I think)
14:01:21JdGordonits not impossible... a PITA, but not impossible!
14:01:28LinusNi guess the path approach would work for all files
14:01:28Paul_The_NerdIf they want it split, they should just split it.
14:01:40Mikachusome file formats can't be split
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14:01:57Mikachuand if you have a music file from a game, some tracks might just be sound effects
14:03:51amiconnJdGordon: It *is* impossible without breaking the m3u quasi-standard
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14:04:19JdGordonwell ye
14:04:22JdGordonbut thats not the only pllaylist format
14:04:47JdGordonso are we agreeing to ignore .cue'd files form the m3u or add the whole .cue as 1 track?
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14:08:21Paul_The_NerdThe playlist format issue will need to be addressed with subsongs in some formats, like the sound effects that Mikachu mentioned.
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14:13:13linuxstbAnyone know how foobar deals with playlists and cue files?
14:13:27Paul_The_NerdI was wondering that earlier.
14:14:51JdGordonwho's on windows with a cue and wants to find out :p
14:14:56amiconnHmm, I've never seen nor used foobar
14:16:23JdGordondid something break the sdl sim build?>
14:16:27tucozamiconn, http://foobar.bowron.us/foo_playlist_tree_screenshot.JPG <−−- so yo can see it ;)
14:16:42JdGordon*** No rule to make target `SDL.h', needed by `/home/jonno/rockbox-devel/h300-sim/sim/button.o'. Stop. <- after a make clean
14:17:42linuxstbI've just tried foobar under Wine. I opened a cuefile and it displayed all the tracks. I deleted all but four of them, and then saved the playlist as a .m3u file, and foobar just inserted the name of cuefile four times, without any reference to the tracks.
14:18:17B4gderhaha
14:18:20amiconnhaha
14:18:29linuxstbIt also exports ".fpl" playlists, which are some kind of binary format.
14:21:41preglowJdGordon: do a manual erase of the build directory
14:21:44preglowJdGordon: i also got that once
14:21:48JdGordonok
14:22:00JdGordonhaha @ foobar being slack
14:22:07*preglow misses foobar :/
14:22:21preglowit crashes too much under wine for me to be able to use it
14:23:07Paul_The_NerdJdGordon: Or try make veryclean (is that the right one?)
14:23:24JdGordontried veryclean
14:24:54JdGordonundefined reference to sscanf even with #include "sscanf.h" ?
14:25:31preglowdoes such a header even exist??
14:25:47preglowlast i checked, it's in stdio.h
14:25:55Mikachuin rockbox, it does
14:26:00preglowah, roit
14:26:05preglowi didn't even think rockbox had it
14:26:23 Quit Pussfeller_the_s (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
14:27:04JdGordonstdio.h is also being included!
14:27:33LinusNsscanf.c is not included in firmware/SOURCES for any other targets than IFP7xx
14:28:12LinusN#if defined(IRIVER_IFP7XX_SERIES) && defined(STUB)
14:28:26JdGordon[19:30:05] <JdGordon> sscanf is in rb right?
14:28:26JdGordon[19:30:30] <LinusN> yup
14:28:32JdGordon...
14:29:08LinusNi wasn't aware that it was restricted to only ifp7xx, i just checked
14:29:15JdGordonoh, soz then
14:29:53JdGordoncan that be changed? or should i change ti to not use it?
14:30:00LinusNchange it
14:30:14LinusNmove it to right below strcpy.c
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14:30:48LinusNit's a library anyway, so it won't increase the code size unless you call it
14:31:34linuxstbhehe... That first check was with foobar 0.8.3. I just tried v0.9 and it won't even load my cuefile because I list the filetype as "MP2", and it only allows "WAVE", "AIFF" or "MP3". But after changing the filetype in the .cue to "MP3" it does the same braindead thing as 0.8.3
14:31:37***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
14:32:44Paul_The_NerdWait, so it doesn't allow CUEs with FLACs?
14:32:59linuxstbProbably not... :) Unless you embed them.
14:33:02Paul_The_NerdAh
14:33:29JdGordonany reason why sscanf.c isnt normally compiled? or just because nothign uses it yet?
14:33:45linuxstbThe error message when I tried to load my .cue said that my cuefile was invalid because the filetype wasn't "WAVE", "AIFF" or "MP3".
14:33:51Paul_The_NerdWeird.
14:33:58linuxstbBut 0.8.3 accepted it without complaint.
14:34:09Paul_The_NerdSeems a somewhat arbitrary restriction to me.
14:34:17 Quit lodesi ("Parti")
14:34:27linuxstbMe too - especially as I'm not aware of any official standard for .cue files.
14:34:47Paul_The_NerdThough I guess with Ogg you may as well use the container's method of doing multiple tracks in one file. But there are plenty of other formats that don't have a container for such things, right?
14:35:45linuxstbChained Oggs seem very odd to me - unless I'm mistaken, you have to scan the entire file to count how many tracks there are.
14:35:56Paul_The_NerdThat's kinda silly.
14:36:01Mikachui thought the point of having mp3/cue was gapless, so having them split in a container would give you nothing...
14:36:27Paul_The_NerdThough since Vorbis Comments allow arbitrary comments, you could just throw on a tag to hold the number of tracks.
14:37:10Paul_The_NerdMikachu: I don't understand what you mean. If you're referring to the Ogg container thing, why wouldn't that be gapless?
14:38:32Mikachuwhy would it be more gapless than just having loose files?
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14:39:26Mikachuin theory you could mux mp3s in a .ogg file
14:39:31linuxstbIt's more gapless in most players (not including Rockbox) - which is why people have collections of mp3/cue files.
14:41:49preglowit'll still be a better gapless
14:42:11preglowsome problem samples will always have track transitions with mp3
14:42:16pregloweh
14:42:19preglowinsert "audible" there
14:43:10louhow can there be different levels of 'gapless' ?
14:43:27loueither it has a gap (therefore its not gapless) or its gapless
14:43:36preglowi didn't say gap
14:43:44preglowi said that the track transition will be audible
14:43:49preglowbecause of phase discontinuities
14:44:32loui cant say that i understand that :)
14:44:53preglowtry encoding a sine wave gaplessly, for example
14:45:01preglowunless you're incredibly lucky, you'll hear a slight click
14:47:40loui see
14:47:46linuxstbIs that just an mp3 problem?
14:49:27preglownot necessarily, no
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14:49:40preglowbut the mp3 internals makes it somewhat more prone
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14:50:02preglowat least as compared to the pure mdct based codecs
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14:54:00 Quit Amien ()
14:54:34JdGordonhow are bookmarks handled atm? they are sepearte from the playlist ye?
14:55:57B4gderbookmarks basically save a resume-position
14:56:15B4gderso yes they are separate
14:56:56JdGordonok
14:58:57*JdGordon gone
15:00
15:00:32linuxstbPaul_The_Nerd: Yes, I just tried a FLAC file with external cuesheet, and foobar v0.9 rejects it unless I make the filetype "WAVE" or even "MP3"... So it seems to force you to use a certain filetype in the .cue file, but then ignores it.
15:02:03Paul_The_NerdWow.
15:02:22Paul_The_NerdThat's kinda strange.
15:02:51preglowthere's no reason it should enforce it
15:02:58preglowsince it uses pure seeking anyway
15:03:07preglowbut it is strange adding it in the first place, yes...
15:05:28Paul_The_NerdIt seems like one of those things where he had a plan for it, then changed his mind and forgot to remove the check?
15:06:09Paul_The_NerdOr maybe it only officially supports the listed formats due to perhaps glitchiness with the others, so at least if someone must use a workaround he can say "It's not my fault, that's not a supported feature."
15:06:27Paul_The_NerdOr <random speculation 3 not found>
15:06:43preglowi can't imagine why there would be glitchiness
15:07:22linuxstbIt seems arbitrary to allow "MP3", but not "MP2"...
15:08:49amiconnHehe, deja vu?
15:09:04amiconnIt seems arbitrary to correctly resume mp3 and mp2, but not mp1 ...
15:09:07linuxstb:)
15:09:46linuxstbNo-one uses mp1 though...
15:11:10linuxstbI should probably try a newer version of foobar 0.9 - the version I've got doesn't like FLACs with embedded cuesheets - it tells me the file is corrupt...
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15:14:28Paul_The_NerdIt seems... odd to me... to think of multiple versions of 0.9. Assuming you aren't referring to 0.9.1 or whatever.
15:14:54linuxstbYes. that's what I meant.
15:15:25 Nick midkay_ is now known as midkay (n=midkay@24.143.70.99)
15:15:27linuxstbI had "0.9" installed. Just tried "0.9.2" and that also fails to play my FLAC with embedded cue, which I find very odd. Maybe it's because it's 48KHz....
15:16:18Paul_The_NerdApparently Foobar isn't the magical solution to all the world's music listening woes that some fans seem to think it is. ;)
15:16:37linuxstbI'm learning that... I believed the hype :)
15:16:48crashdi find foobar to be alright, problem being with FLAC
15:17:05crashdi have wagners ring cycle in flac, and it wont play properly in foobar, but plays fine in winamp 2.9x with a CUE plugin
15:17:10Paul_The_NerdY'know, with a little improvement, and a "Stand-alone Application" build that's a little more usable than the simulator, Rockbox could probably match it, and be cross-platform to boot.
15:17:33crashdPaul_The_Nerd: except rockbox has loads of cruft that a music player doesnt need
15:17:43crashdO.o
15:17:56Paul_The_Nerdcrashd: Well, a stand alone application certainly wouldn't need to build with plugins and such.
15:18:01crashdyeah
15:18:38crashdthe other problem with foobar is that it isn't in development, really, and the 0.8 and 0.9 branches are totally different, in terms of plugin arch
15:18:43crashdand actual codebase, from what i remember
15:20:49Paul_The_NerdThe sound quality on my DAP is better than the output from my laptop anyway, and there's not easy access for headphones on my desktop, so I don't really use a PC-based audio player anyway.
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15:56:47linuxstbSeems foobar only supports FLAC files with embedded cues if the audio is 44.1KHz....
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15:58:47Paul_The_Nerd...odd...
15:59:06Paul_The_NerdBut does it support 48khz FLAC/CUE combinations with the workaround?
15:59:34linuxstbYes - if you mean external cuesheets.
15:59:57Paul_The_NerdYeah
16:00
16:00:38linuxstbI'm not sure how this helps with implementing cuesheets support in Rockbox though... Apart from knowing we can't do it any worse than foobar.
16:01:41linuxstbI guess that's the problem with "standards" that aren't real standards, like .cue.
16:05:32Paul_The_NerdIt's not an easy situation, overall.
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16:31:38***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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16:56:50XavierGrhttp://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/12/technology/12ring.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
16:57:19XavierGrhehe I just did a test and my mother can't hear the high pitched sound at all, very interesting.
16:58:28*petur whistles
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17:55:30mongey|tagginghttp://img452.imageshack.us/img452/4204/untitled13vw.jpg
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17:58:59obowikispam?
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18:00
18:00:04obomongey: have you searched for multiple cygwin1.dll files?
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18:01:49JdGordonstuppppid soccer!
18:02:28linuxstbJdGordon: Congratulations :)
18:02:37 Quit bluebrother ("Verlassend")
18:03:13JdGordoncongrast my arse... that means we might make the second round :'(
18:03:19 Join rudefyet_ [0] (n=bobdole@70-35-134-54.ironoh.adelphia.net)
18:03:22 Part RizCk
18:03:34JdGordonmore stupid adopted "culture" and having it forced down our throughts!
18:04:22JdGordonin other news... i got 7/8 in the footy tiping this week :D
18:05:04mongeyobo yes
18:05:08mongeytheres only 1
18:05:13mongey1-0 to us
18:05:44mongeyi mean chez
18:06:29 Quit dpro (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
18:06:32JdGordonoh, i tried rb on a friend s brand new ipod video.. that scroll whell takes some getting used to..
18:08:47JdGordonhttp://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=4796.0 <- delete me
18:10:07JdGordongnite all
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18:48:24mongeyhttp://img452.imageshack.us/img452/4204/untitled13vw.jpg
18:48:30mongeyi still get that eror
18:48:33mongeyany ideas
18:48:49mongeyall extra cygwin1.dll s are gone
18:49:47Paul_The_NerdSo the only one remaining is the one in the \cygwin\bin folder?
18:50:17mongeyyep
18:51:30Paul_The_NerdAnd you've rebooted since removing them all?
18:51:37mongeyno
18:51:47mongeybrb
18:51:48Paul_The_NerdDespite the fact that it recommends rebooting if you still get that error...
18:51:54mongey:P
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18:57:26mongeystill the same
18:58:49mongeyany ideas?
18:59:24mongeyi think its something to do with the compiler
19:00
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19:02:24mongey"the compiler you must use <m68k-elf-gcc> is not in your patch!"
19:02:35Mikachupath
19:02:44mongeyye
19:02:53mongeytypo
19:02:57Paul_The_NerdThat's the script though.
19:03:01mongeyoh
19:03:10Paul_The_NerdBecause Cygwin errored out from letting the script find it, I think
19:03:34Paul_The_NerdDid you find extra cygwin1.dlls when you searched earlier?
19:03:40mongeynope
19:03:51Paul_The_NerdAnd how did you install m68k-elf-gcc?
19:04:01mongeyem
19:04:28mongeywas it not auto with the cygwin installer?
19:04:34 Join petur [0] (n=petur@rockbox/developer/petur)
19:04:47Paul_The_NerdThat's not necessarily the only way to do it. So, you picked the Rockbox mirror and chose it?
19:05:02mongeyyep
19:05:37Paul_The_Nerdtype m68k-elf-gcc −−version and see what it says, or if it crashes out too.
19:05:55Paul_The_NerdThen arm-elf-gcc −−version if you got that one.
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19:06:59mongeycrashed
19:07:01mongeyi think
19:07:15Paul_The_Nerd?
19:07:41mongeywant a screen or will i type?
19:07:56Paul_The_NerdWas it a similar message, or something completely different?
19:08:11mongeyquite similar
19:08:17mongeybut the start wasnt
19:08:23Paul_The_Nerdproc magic mismatch though?
19:08:29mongeyye
19:08:49Paul_The_NerdAnd do you have arm-elf-gcc?
19:09:24mongeysame
19:09:41Paul_The_NerdWhat about just gcc?
19:10:05mongey3.4.4
19:10:26Paul_The_NerdAlright, so the cygwin install isn't hosed, but somehow those are.
19:11:11Paul_The_NerdI don't really know how to fix it though, aside from removing and reinstalling them.
19:11:15Paul_The_NerdIf that will work even.
19:11:23mongeytryed it
19:11:25mongeywell
19:11:31mongeyreinstalling
19:12:26Paul_The_NerdI really dunno. You could use the instructions at the CrossCompiler wiki page to install them manually
19:14:11mongeykk
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19:59:03Hansmaulwurfhi
19:59:05Hansmaulwurfsomeone there with wiki access?
19:59:07Hansmaulwurfhttp://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/OnlineStore
19:59:22Hansmaulwurfi think that is not a "normal" user
19:59:40Hansmaulwurflooks like a kind of spammer
19:59:41Mikachuhaha, probably not, no
19:59:48peturyou can always delete the content while an admin comes along ;)
20:00
20:00:26Hansmaulwurfhuh?
20:00:32Hansmaulwurfwhat do you mean petur?
20:00:43Mikachui'm not sure personal pages are editable by other users
20:00:48Hansmaulwurfyeah
20:00:55HansmaulwurfI cant edit the attachement
20:01:07peturoh, right
20:01:24Mikachuthe funny part is NO.SPAM in his email
20:01:59Hansmaulwurfhehe
20:02:58Hansmaulwurfdidnt know that spamer are avertising for tamiflu
20:04:13peturHansmaulwurf: have you locked the page?
20:04:24Hansmaulwurfcant
20:04:30HansmaulwurfI am only a normal wiki user
20:04:54peturwho's Sebastian Kahnt?
20:05:03Hansmaulwurfme
20:05:04Hansmaulwurfwhy?
20:05:20peturcongrats, you've locked the page for editing :D
20:05:28Hansmaulwurfhuh?
20:05:35Hansmaulwurfhow did i do that?
20:05:52 Quit jbauman (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
20:05:55peturtry to edit and then close the page without using the buttons of twiki
20:06:21Hansmaulwurfwhat do you mean with "close"?
20:06:27Hansmaulwurfclose the window?
20:06:43peturclose the browser, use back button,...
20:07:01peturbut I can't remove the attachments either...
20:07:12peturI'm only half a dev ;)
20:07:31Hansmaulwurfsee
20:08:36peturdon't know who can.... amiconn? t0mas? preglow?
20:11:39HansmaulwurfBadger?
20:11:45HansmaulwurfLlorean? ^^
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20:19:12FebsHansmaulwurf: open the page to edit, and then save it and check the "release edit lock" button.
20:20:28Hansmaulwurftry it
20:20:38Hansmaulwurfwhere is that release edit lock?
20:21:00Hansmaulwurfhm should be free now
20:21:22peturFebs, you got more wiki rights?
20:23:14FebsNope.
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20:31:43***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:34:52*petur wonders who cleaned the wiki
20:36:44*Hansmaulwurf too
20:38:24Hansmaulwurfhm thrilling discussion about the 3.0 release at the forum
20:38:25Hansmaulwurf;)
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21:00
21:03:48 Join pixelma [0] (n=pixelma@212.204.41.115)
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21:10:12 Quit Lear ("Chatzilla 0.9.73 [Firefox 1.5.0.4/2006050817]")
21:11:52*petur swears at the UDA1380 chip
21:13:37amiconnDon't
21:14:04amiconnIt won't help
21:14:24peturI get 5-7 samples glitches, always upwards and even with irq disabled.
21:14:48peturI bet it's the changing of the gain in the uda itself
21:15:26peturI'm going to do separate analog/decimator tests to figure out what it is....
21:15:30amiconnTried changing the order in which the 2 settings are performed?
21:15:43peturno
21:16:08peturbut it's always a peak, never a dip
21:16:34amiconnWould be interesting to see what happens when switching the order
21:17:06peturlater... doing analog and decimator only first
21:17:32peturhad a chat with the isp1362 lately? ;)
21:17:57amiconnhmpf :(
21:18:12amiconnAll it says is 0x0000
21:18:25amiconn..but that's clearly a lie
21:18:49peturmaybe try to talk to the eeprom, it says more, but it's not correct
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21:22:02Hansmaulwurfis the ISP1362 the H300 power consumption guy?
21:22:40peturyes
21:22:52peturamiconn: analog only seems glitch free
21:22:52Hansmaulwurfbad boy ^^
21:23:05*petur runs off for a while
21:28:01dionoeahello
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21:41:23sharpegood morning everyone.
21:42:34peturgood evening ;)
21:43:07hardeepgood afternoon =)
21:43:53*amiconn wants to know a few things about the H300 hardware
21:44:08amiconn(1) What's on the pcf's GPOOD3 ?
21:44:44amiconn(2) What does retailos do with the pcf charger settings? Iiuc charging is controlled by the LX2201
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21:45:41*petur discovers decimator only gain is glitch free as well
21:45:45sharpeah, it is the afternoon but i woke up only a bit ago.
21:45:52*petur runs off again
21:47:21sharpeokay, so it calls the function fine...
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21:49:15sharpeyay
21:49:36sharpei found where it stops... during the call to open()... i wonder why...
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21:51:45sharpeOh.
21:51:54sharpeHow stupid am i...
21:52:38 Join Alex_ [0] (n=Alex@c-67-185-34-203.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
21:53:06dionoeasharpe: don't be so hard with yourself :)
21:53:59sharpe:)
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21:55:15 Part Alex_ ("Leaving")
21:55:16 Join webguest54 [0] (n=502ad2e6@labb.contactor.se)
21:57:19sharpewell. it does do something now, instead of failing to run...
21:57:55 Quit bluemoon (Connection timed out)
21:59:40dionoeaare you coding some kind of new cool plugin ?
21:59:45sharpenope
21:59:48sharpebootloader :)
22:00
22:00:17dionoeafor a new player ?
22:00:22sharpenope.
22:00:44 Quit webguest54 ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
22:01:07sharpeadding *customization*, to keep me occupied with something.
22:01:21sharpefor like users and such
22:01:42dionoealike being able to chose a rockbox (or other) kernel at boot time in a menu ? or some background image ?
22:02:00sharpeeh, colors, name, boot order
22:02:26dionoeasounds nice :)
22:02:36 Quit _Veseliq_ (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
22:02:45sharpeheh, thanks
22:03:33dionoeai'm curious: are the bootloaders some kind of light rockbox firmware ? or something else ?
22:03:51sharpewell...
22:04:06sharpeif you consider using the same includes and such, then i suppose so...
22:06:11dionoeaso basically it shares the same drivers ... but that's about it ?
22:06:26sharpesi...
22:07:17sharpeweird. color is being set to black for both the foreground and the background.
22:07:17dionoeagracias
22:08:30sharpe:D
22:08:49 Quit lodesi (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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22:10:16sharpeoops. i forgot something else too.
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22:11:23Mikachuhttp://www.macworld.co.uk/news/index.cfm?RSS&NewsID=14915
22:13:56peturI'm not surprised
22:15:07dionoeaso basically buying one ipod pays one worker's salary for a year
22:15:13dionoeahum...
22:15:42sharpewell. i got my ipod as a present... so that means...
22:15:48kerbI bet thats the state of all the consumer electronics I have really
22:15:57sharpemost likely
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22:19:06sharpewow... heavy rain.
22:20:27peturhmmmm dry and too hot here
22:20:32sharpeand i also figured out why it wasn't loading the colors correctly.
22:22:28peturamiconn: does i2c-coldfire also do i2c at 400kHz? Or is it slower?
22:23:34peturamiconn: I also found dips now, and swapping the two calls swaps the slopes on which the peaks/dips occur.
22:24:04amiconni2c-coldfire uses nearly 400kHz at 124MHz, and scales down with CPU clock
22:24:15amiconnWe can't do otherwise
22:24:32peturI think what I'm seeing is just i2c slowness
22:25:19peturone call = 2.5us * 8 * 4 = at least 80us
22:25:28sharpehahah!
22:25:32petur5 samples = 113us
22:25:33sharpeit works :)
22:26:12 Quit mirak (Connection timed out)
22:26:46peturamiconn: the only thing I can do is make them all peaks or all dips - but what is least audible? dips?
22:27:20peturI also must test with yields and enabler irq's - it will probably make things worse
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22:29:18amiconnI would expect that the type of glitch (dips or peaks) does depend both on the order of the i2c calls and the direction of the gain change
22:29:38peturit does
22:30:30peturI feel dips are less audible than peaks - but this is just a feeling I have, no thinking done
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22:31:44***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:32:43dionoeahum, does rb->sleep( ) also yield ?
22:32:52sharpei believe so
22:32:58peturyes
22:33:21dionoeaok, thanks
22:33:43amiconndionoea: Of course. It does yield over and over until the sleep timeout passes
22:33:58*dionoea was just making sure :)
22:34:21dionoeai'm trying to find if i can't speedup stuff in the xobox plugin so my audio stops skiping :D
22:35:06*amiconn wants to know what's on GPIO26 and GPIO21
22:35:18*petur points to Linus
22:35:43amiconnThey're both setup explicitly in retailos
22:35:57amiconn(GPIO26 as output & low, GPIO21 as output & high)
22:36:23*amiconn is analysing retailos hardware setup with pen & paper
22:38:30 Quit rudefyet (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:39:55sharpeshould i move around code so the colors/messages are displayed for as long as possible? or should i stick the code in where it has it's first chance to load without moving code around?
22:40:55peturamiconn: with yields and no irq protection, gain change glitches are double in size (12-14 samples) - this is without remote
22:41:08*petur attaches remote and tries again
22:44:56sharpeanyone?
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22:53:02*amiconn would also like to know what's on GPIO63 (out + low), GPIO52 (in) (probably remote hold switch like on H1x0), GPIO39 out (low) and GPIO38 out (low)
22:53:57 Join Bagder [0] (n=daniel@1-1-5-26a.hud.sth.bostream.se)
22:54:10peturmoooooo
22:54:27Papricalol
22:54:29amiconnThat time has long passed... ;)
22:55:45Bagdergood to see a fine moo in the evening
22:56:47 Quit Poka64 ("damn those italians")
22:57:47Bagderand today I dislike UPS even more
22:57:50BagderI've got no further notices, but when I called them today they said they've already done 3 "deliver attempts"
22:57:54Bagderone of them at 11:15 on friday - and I told them specifically all day would work except 10-12
22:58:26*petur wants to remove the yield() calls in i2c-coldfire
22:59:09 Join rudefyet [0] (n=bobdole@70-35-137-15.ironoh.adelphia.net)
22:59:55amiconnHmm. It's rather likely that GPIO26 has to do with USB OTG
23:00
23:00:20*amiconn summons LinusN
23:01:18peturall my findings are here: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/UsbOnTheGoSupport
23:01:44petur(at the bottom)
23:02:36amiconnI know, however, that doesn't include GPIO26
23:02:50peturjust saw that :/
23:03:16amiconnBtw, GPIO53 can't be connected to /H_PSW1 iiuc
23:03:45amiconn. /H_PSW1 is an output according to the datasheet
23:03:59peturoh... woops
23:04:11 Join Aghaster [0] (n=Aghaster@modemcable010.69-200-24.mc.videotron.ca)
23:04:52amiconn...but it still most likely swicthes the +5V
23:06:08 Quit Hansmaulwurf ("( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 3.81 :: www.XLhost.de )")
23:06:20amiconnGPIO26 and GPIO39 out are hot candidates for being USB otg related
23:06:56amiconnHmm.
23:08:36amiconnPerhaps we should just set them like retailos and hope it will work...
23:08:49Papricammm Rockbox doesnt have Othello game? @@
23:09:00amiconnIt had...
23:09:10amiconnThat's a long story involving BlueChip
23:09:24Paprica..
23:09:44Papricawhere is it? =\
23:10:00amiconnIt was removed
23:10:09Papricaoh, when?
23:10:17amiconnpffff
23:10:23amiconnlemme check
23:10:36hardeepprobably easier to read the mailing list thread
23:11:36amiconnAlmost exactly 2 years ago... see here http://www.rockbox.org/viewcvs.cgi/apps/plugins/Attic/
23:11:57amiconnThe mailing list is also an interesting source...
23:12:01 Quit rudefyet_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:12:22hardeepokay, here's my first stab at a bug reporting template (loosely based on LKML template), comments/suggestions welcome: http://hardeeps.freeshell.org/bug_report.txt
23:12:55Papricathanks amiconn
23:13:10hardeep(getting annoyed with the minamalistic bug reports)
23:14:39dionoeahum ... i'm wondering: does < take more time than == on embeded devices' CPUs (using ints)
23:15:07Bagderdionoea: nope
23:15:23Bagdernot generally at least
23:15:39dionoeaok, i'll try merging two == into one < then :)
23:16:08sharpehmm...
23:16:43sharpethat pizza was ick. anyone have any suggestion pertaining to my question? :D
23:17:12 Quit TCK (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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23:19:43 Join Paul_The_Nerd [0] (n=Paul_The@cpe-66-68-93-2.austin.res.rr.com)
23:20:10Paul_The_NerdAnyone around who can answer a couple quick questions about the AJBR?
23:21:00linuxstbPaul_The_Nerd: Try us...
23:22:10 Join webguest82 [0] (n=53b3b950@labb.contactor.se)
23:22:15Paul_The_NerdWell, when charging an AJBRv1 is there supposed to be indication while charging, like an LED or something?
23:22:19 Part Febs
23:23:38hardeepno LEDs for charging, just the display
23:25:29Paul_The_NerdOkay, and mine won't power on at the moment. If I tap On, nothing happens. If I hold it, it shows a screen with two boxes full, tells me the OS version is 1.28, and as soon as I release On, it shuts off.
23:25:48 Quit SereRokR ("XChat Aqua")
23:26:01BagderPaul_The_Nerd: its not supposed to switch off again like that
23:26:20dionoeaexcept if the batteries are really empty
23:26:27Paul_The_NerdThe batteries are likely *incredibly* empty
23:26:31linuxstbPaul_The_Nerd: You could try removing the batteries and charging them in an external charger (if you have one).
23:26:34dionoea(it happened on my resurected unit yesterday)
23:26:36Bagderwell, then that's why
23:26:45 Join thesoffork [0] (i=thesonor@evident-prime.de)
23:26:45dionoeathe disk spin up was just too much
23:26:57Paul_The_NerdYeah, if I hold "On" for more than a few seconds the screen starts fading. :)
23:27:20dionoea~after 5 mins of charging i was able to boot it ...
23:27:33sharpePaul! i've a user-customizable bootloader working :D
23:27:36Paul_The_NerdThe charger I've been given outputs 9vdc at 600mA, is this correct?
23:28:04hardeepPaul_The_Nerd: yup, that should work
23:28:08dionoeai think that i'm feeding it 12 V :)
23:28:22Paul_The_NerdOkay.
23:28:25hardeepexternal charger is probably a good starting point
23:28:54Paul_The_NerdNext question: Anyone got the link on hand to the page with instructions on opening and changing batteries, before I go off searching?
23:29:32hardeepjust lift up the two side panels
23:30:03Paul_The_NerdThankee
23:31:02Paul_The_NerdHm. The batteries are marked 1.2v 1500mah. All I've got is a 15-minute quickcharger for my AAs, should that be safe?
23:31:24preglowdet well
23:31:33amiconnPaul_The_Nerd: The original charger is 9V 600mA unregulated. I guess you've got that
23:31:35preglowwhat kind of batteries is it for?
23:31:44amiconnPaul_The_Nerd: Yes.
23:31:55amiconnThe recorder takes plain AA NiMH cells
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23:32:15amiconnIf you want more runtime, you can replace them with higher capacity ones
23:32:31amiconnhardeep: More playlist woes :(
23:32:51hardeepamiconn: undocumented features =)
23:32:52Paul_The_Nerdamiconn: At the moment, this is just so I can provide better support to Archos-related questions, since I now can familiarize myself with the keys and usch.
23:33:10hardeepi got an mmc card to test the ondio problems you were seeing
23:33:32hardeep(couldn't reproduce with flash)
23:34:44amiconnhardeep: Reproducable messup: (1) Start with shuffle = off. (2) start a playlist by choosing 'insert shuffled' on a folder. (3) add another folder by choosing 'insert last'. (4) Check the playlist. It's in the expected order (first the shuffled folder, then the unshuffled one
23:35:15amiconn(5) Stop Pplayback and resume. (6) Check the playlist again. Now the second album has magically moved
23:35:26 Quit SereR0KR (Client Quit)
23:35:57amiconnIt's no longer at the end. Its tracks stay together, but are now located before the _original_ first track of the first folder inserted
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23:36:13Nepohi@all
23:36:14hardeepamiconn: blah, i thought i had fixed all of those bugs
23:36:19hardeepamiconn: will check
23:36:53Nepowhat's about a lyric-support?
23:37:50Nepohello?
23:38:31hardeepamiconn: hmmm, it worked for me... are you using latest cvs?
23:38:56Paul_The_NerdNepo: What about it? I think there's a patch in the tracker.
23:39:03amiconnhardeep: yes of course
23:39:12Neporeally? whrere?
23:39:21amiconnhardeep: This bug is verified both on Ondio and H140
23:39:38Nepoalso 4 the iriver H3xx?
23:39:44amiconnhardeep: Another bug: If you have a playlist with track errors (folder moved or such), the playlist system already detected that for a track (marked "(ERR)" at start), and you try to play such a track from the pl viewer, the current track marking becomes wrong
23:40:48Paul_The_NerdNepo: As I said, it's in the patch tracker.
23:41:02Nepowouldn't it be great to combine the evillyrics-engine ith rockbock...or integrate it in any way?
23:41:05amiconnpetur: Just setting these 2 gpio pins didn't help :(
23:41:23Nepodo you know that program?
23:41:37peturamiconn: and are you still checking temperatures?
23:42:05amiconnNo, but I'm trying to read dc and hc id, and checking the D_SUSPEND bit
23:42:18amiconnMy code does *not* try to set the chip to suspend yet
23:42:43amiconnWithout working access, there is no point in trying to set anything
23:43:02Paul_The_NerdNepo: It'd be best to find the patch entry and comment upon it. I don't believe the author of the patch is here.
23:44:54hardeepamiconn: okay, reproduced the first bug
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23:45:47Nepook ok. thx 4 help
23:45:50 Quit Nepo ()
23:46:24amiconnhardeep: Slightly wrong... my build is ~cvs 060610, but no playlist related changes were checked in after that
23:48:28*amiconn sometimes gets slightly confused on which of his units is running what build
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23:53:24Paul_The_NerdIt is booted!
23:53:35hardeepblah, i see the cause of the problem... ick
23:53:42Paul_The_NerdTime to see if I have an appropriate USB cable
23:54:03hardeepPaul_The_Nerd: good luck =) archos made the weirdest decision with that cable
23:54:26*Bagder nods agreeingly
23:55:27Paul_The_NerdIs it just a standard A to A?
23:55:40 Quit petur ("here today, gone tomorrow")
23:55:41amiconnA to A yes, standard no
23:55:52Paul_The_NerdWell, it shows up
23:55:55 Quit mirak (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:55:56Paul_The_NerdApparently the cable I tried, worked
23:55:56amiconnThese cables are forbidden according to the USB stzandard
23:56:06 Join rotator [0] (n=e@rockbox/developer/rotator)
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23:56:09sharpethe male to male usb cables?
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23:56:20Paul_The_NerdI picked up a cheap 3 foot cable at Fry's Electronics because I don't have a A to A male/male cable. And it worked. :)
23:57:54Paul_The_NerdAnd installation is just extract rockbox onto it?
23:58:34hardeepPaul_The_Nerd: yup... and Fry's was the only place I could find that cable too =)
23:58:58BagderPaul_The_Nerd: yes, that's a file-based install

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