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#rockbox log for 2006-06-17

00:00:39*amiconn doesn't even know what that is
00:00:59juxtapoh, it's like an itunes alternative
00:01:01earHertzIt's a music playre than you carry in your ass
00:01:02juxtapmuch better than itunes
00:01:13earHertzoh, ANApod. sorry
00:01:25preglowyou thought it said anuspod? :P
00:01:40juxtapheh
00:01:42juxtapanalpod
00:01:44juxtap:\
00:01:48*amiconn doesn't know anything about how itunes works either
00:01:49louyou dont need anapod with rockbox anymore
00:01:51preglowrectapod
00:01:58juxtapyeah i know
00:02:04juxtapbut if i want to set up a dual boot thing
00:02:13louits already there
00:02:20loujust hold menu while booting
00:02:26 Join Paul_The_Nerd [0] (n=Paul_The@cpe-66-68-93-2.austin.res.rr.com)
00:02:28juxtapi tried that, didn't work
00:02:31louand it boots into the apple firmware
00:02:34louwell
00:02:37loutry again
00:02:49lousometimes it takes me 2-3 times before it works
00:03:03juxtapi think when i installed rockbox i overwrote apple os
00:03:10scorcheit didnt
00:03:13louno
00:03:15lounot possible
00:03:35juxtapoh,k
00:03:58 Quit petur ("here today, gone tomorrow")
00:04:02loupress play for 5 seconds until it shuts off the ipod
00:04:07scorchewhen you are holding menu, try not to move your thumb much....i think movement on the wheel interferes with it in some way (just a guess)
00:04:11Paul_The_NerdIt is possible, but you have to do something pretty wrong.
00:04:11loupress and hold menu then
00:04:19louit should boot into the original FW
00:04:36louscorche, yeah
00:04:41loutakes time sometimes
00:04:43juxtapooo
00:04:46juxtap"loading original firmware"
00:04:50lousee?
00:05:15juxtapheh, what i was doing wrong: i pressed the select button THEN pressed menu
00:05:21amiconnHehe
00:05:23juxtap(instead of just pressing menu)
00:05:36amiconnIf I'd do that on my mini g2, it would just reboot again
00:05:46*amiconn removed retailos completely
00:05:51juxtaper, it stalled, nothing is happening
00:06:01juxtapoh
00:06:05loumight take a while
00:06:13juxtapyeah :p
00:07:05juxtapcool i have no music now
00:07:10 Quit Kohlriba ("Hello my name is CoolClonk .")
00:07:24 Quit akaidiot (Remote closed the connection)
00:08:06 Join akaidiot [0] (n=not@84-217-3-120.tn.glocalnet.net)
00:08:16louboot to rockbox, plug your ipod into your pc, copy your mp3 folder on it, done.
00:10:11 Quit heff_ ("Client Exiting")
00:10:42 Join lodesi [0] (n=lds@d02m-62-34-201-19.d4.club-internet.fr)
00:11:10juxtaphow do i boot back into rockbox?
00:11:13 Join heff [0] (n=felix@xdsl-87-78-0-203.netcologne.de)
00:11:21 Join linuxstb_ [0] (n=5343d4aa@labb.contactor.se)
00:11:48dionoeajuxtap: hold menu+select
00:11:55juxtapbtw i have my stuff stored in /rokcboc/music but apple os can't read that
00:11:59juxtapthat's why i mentioned anapod
00:12:11juxtapdoesn't it need to be stored in a special way?
00:12:52juxtapthanks dionoea
00:13:00louapple os stores stuff in a special way
00:13:01louyes
00:13:10lourockbox does not and can access that directory
00:13:24juxtapyeah i know
00:13:27juxtapbut that's ugly.
00:13:48louwhats ugly?
00:14:15juxtapthe way apple os stores stuff (itunes anyway)
00:14:20juxtapguess i'll try with anapod
00:14:35loui dont get it :)
00:14:41juxtapf0001.mp3, f0002.mp3, or something
00:14:46juxtapyou don't? what don't you get...
00:14:49Paul_The_NerdWell then don't use music in apple OS
00:14:50louwhy do you want to store stuff in the apple way now?
00:15:01louwhat paul said
00:15:11louwith rockbox the apple stuff is obsolete
00:15:21 Quit midkay_ ("Leaving")
00:15:21lou(except for video playback)
00:15:29Paul_The_NerdUse Apple for video if you must watch videos, but there's no reason to try to make sure your music can play in both
00:16:22juxtapdunnae, for fun
00:16:55juxtapseems my idea is outnumbered though :p
00:17:22louyour idea would use the double ammount of space
00:17:38louwell
00:17:38juxtapnot necessarily
00:18:01louexcept you prefer to browse through f0001.mp3 etc :)
00:18:07louinstead of 'real' names
00:18:19 Join rotator [0] (n=e@rockbox/developer/rotator)
00:18:21juxtaporrrrrr i get anapod to make things nice
00:18:33louanapod stores stuff in the apple way
00:18:42louits just an itunes replacement
00:19:02mongeyis usb charging in the cvs ?
00:19:04juxtapoh, right
00:19:07mongeyfor the h300?
00:19:08juxtapyou sure?
00:19:11loui am
00:19:19juxtapi thought the f00001 thing was itunes, not apple
00:19:23juxtapok
00:19:26louno
00:19:38louapple stores stuff in f0001.mp3 etc
00:19:46Amienrockbox can access stuff that was put on the ipod using itunes or anapod
00:19:47louthan makes a DB with the actual names
00:19:52 Quit bluebrother ("Leaving")
00:20:13louhuh?
00:20:16louhow?
00:20:20 Join steveb [0] (i=steve@pan.object4.net)
00:20:33louwell you can access the files
00:20:36Paul_The_NerdTagCache
00:20:43loubut the names and stuff are all messed up
00:20:47Paul_The_NerdLets you browse by Metadata rather than Filename.
00:20:47louoh tagcache
00:20:49louyeah
00:20:58gpoois thier a way that rockbox thru some wifi dongle
00:20:59gpooand adpator
00:21:06gpooget wifi support to the ipod
00:21:10Amiengeneral -> file view -> show files −−> id3 database
00:21:11gpoofor internet radio
00:21:13loui prefer filenames
00:21:13gpoo:)
00:21:17dionoea(the only issue with tagcache is when you have tracks with missing meta data ... makes it horrible to use)
00:21:26loutagcache looks terribly messed
00:21:36dionoeait works great
00:21:37 Join BHSPitLappy [0] (n=steve-o@adsl-66-139-199-11.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net)
00:21:37Paul_The_Nerdgpoo: While theoretically it *may* be possible, it's unlikely any time even remotely soon.
00:21:42lounot for me
00:21:42juxtaptagcache, heh, sounds cool
00:22:14gpoowifi −−-{dongle}|ipod port|999999ipod99[wirelss internet9]_____−−headphones
00:22:27loui rather have album artist -> <subdir> album -> <subdir> files
00:22:49gpooPaul_The_Nerd my friend who is hardware modder and a mac fan, said he was working on something but need some drivers or firmware support
00:22:59gpoohe got wifi on his netwon
00:23:06gpoohe was able to get wifi to work on his newton
00:23:17Paul_The_Nerdlou: TagCache is useful because it allows you to create groups, like "All songs with the word Zelda in the title" for quick auto-playlisting.
00:23:37heffgpoo: the newton has different interface options
00:23:44loui am not arguing that paul :)
00:24:02loujust think its messed (at least the way i tried to use it)
00:24:07Paul_The_Nerdlou: I was just pointing out. I use filetree too, but some people don't seem to be aware of the options beyond simply browsing by tag. :)
00:24:14heffgpoo: it would maybe be possible by implementing USB host mode and then using a usb wifi dongle
00:24:17louhehe
00:24:19loupeople like me
00:24:20lou:P
00:24:25gpoodam it rebooted again
00:24:31gpoowhy does rock box reboot every so often
00:24:49Paul_The_Nerdlou: I don't use it, but I've never had problems with it. But then, all of my files are painstakingly tagged, none are M4A/AAC, and none have album art.
00:24:53gpooheff yes that his and my idea
00:24:56juxtapPaul_The_Nerd, so how would you create a playlist with 'all tracks from 1990' say?
00:24:58gpoobut I am no programer
00:25:08loupaul, same here
00:25:12heffneither am I :)
00:25:20 Join TuDo [0] (n=chatzill@26-175.surfsnel.dsl.internl.net)
00:25:35 Quit ender` (" People are more violently opposed to fur than leather because it is safer to harrass rich women than motorcycle gangs.")
00:26:02Paul_The_Nerdjuxtap: title ? year >= "1990" & year <="1999" in tagnavi.config
00:26:20 Part steveb ("##uk - The brits still rule the world")
00:26:30gpoodoes tag chache run in the background
00:26:42Paul_The_NerdWhat do you mean by that?
00:26:50gpook I see
00:27:07gpoocalculus 2
00:27:13gpoois the hardest math class I ever taken in my life
00:27:15gpoowhy is that
00:27:23gpooI tought I was a average math student
00:27:26gpoobut it kicking my ass
00:27:35gpooI never claimed I was a professional math student but average
00:27:38Paul_The_NerdWell, considering you're taking math sequentially, every class should arguably be a bit harder than the prior.
00:27:47 Quit TuDo (Client Quit)
00:28:03gpoohmm sure, but I take caclus 1 it was much better
00:28:16gpooI heard calcus 3 is better
00:28:38gpootag cache is not ready
00:28:40Paul_The_NerdWell, considering the difficulty you seem to have spelling calculus... :-P
00:28:50gpooI am dylsxic
00:28:51gpoo:)
00:28:51Paul_The_NerdDid you read how to use TagCache?
00:28:57gpoothe pdf sure
00:29:02gpooI am updating it
00:29:06Paul_The_NerdTry reading the TagCache wiki page
00:29:13gpooOH k
00:29:22gpooI have a big learning disbility
00:29:33 Join toxicaway [0] (n=attitude@ppp-58.8.4.76.revip2.asianet.co.th)
00:29:48gpoohmm one last question why doe so offten my ipod reboots
00:29:52gpooor shut downs
00:30:00dionoeaworks fine here :)
00:30:01gpoolike if I change a song or playlist
00:30:05gpooipod mini
00:30:10dionoea(ipod video)
00:30:13gpooit works fine if I have pluged in to car charger
00:30:26gpooI may get a ipod video
00:30:33gpooif they ever get a 120 gig version
00:30:42gpooand a pionneer system for the car
00:30:42juxtapdon't get ipod video :p
00:30:50gpooso I can pout all the music albums I have
00:30:52dionoeado you really need 120 GB of music ?!?
00:30:59gpooI just want to live in my car
00:31:04dionoeahehe :)
00:31:08gpooI have over 30 days of music
00:31:09juxtapflac maybe
00:31:21gpooand I wish to convert some cds to .wav format
00:31:25gpooor .aff
00:31:29gpoofor best quality
00:31:44dionoeaso you can listen with your crappy headphones ? :p
00:32:04gpoooh I said
00:32:08gpoomy pioneer
00:32:12gpoounit
00:32:18gpoowhich is digital input
00:32:20gpooto the stero
00:32:27dionoeaoh ... ok :)
00:32:28gpooit not headphone port
00:32:36gpoowell thier are good headphones
00:32:36 Quit redondos (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:32:38juxtapone word of advice... ipod 5g is a fragile thing, get a protective sock and be gentle
00:32:39gpoobut they cost 900
00:32:49Paul_The_Nerdgpoo: Why WAV, why not FLAC?
00:32:51gpooit custom made
00:33:05gpooPaul_The_Nerd does rock box support flac
00:33:09Paul_The_NerdYes
00:33:16gpoohave you see the 900 usd custom made headphones
00:33:30*Paul_The_Nerd suggests you actually read up on what Rockbox does *before* you install it on players.
00:33:30gpooit was rockstars use, so they don't go deaf
00:33:41gpooI am using rockbox right know
00:33:48Paul_The_NerdYup
00:33:55gpooI been for three weeks and I love it
00:33:55Paul_The_NerdAnd yet you don't even know what its featureset is.
00:34:00***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:34:07Paul_The_NerdIt seems odd to me to install a custom firmware before finding out what it offers.
00:34:10gpooI should read, I tryed to read somethings
00:34:18gpoooh I knew what it offered
00:34:19 Join jd_ [0] (n=jd@wikipedia/Meanos)
00:34:21gpoonot all but some
00:34:24gpoolike gapless
00:34:31gpoothat one feature that I was like wow
00:34:46loui think gapless is the number one reason why people install rockbox :)
00:34:47gpooone feature I will waite to improve is battery
00:35:03louit was the same for me
00:35:05gpooand support for many format, execpt I didn't read wh ich are they
00:35:16gpoojust assumed
00:35:21gpoomany more then apple
00:35:40gpooI will tell you the truth I read for 10 mins, then I lose focous and give up reading
00:35:49gpoobut I can stay focous in class
00:36:01gpoocuase I know the professor could get angry
00:36:34juxtapi am a professor
00:36:38gpooyou are
00:36:45gpoooh so you know about student with add
00:36:54gpoowhat subject
00:37:07louo/~ we dont need no education.
00:37:08gpoojuxtap do you get student who get a litte extra time
00:37:17louo/~ hey teacher leave us kids alone
00:37:38 Quit Amien ()
00:37:41louone of the best songs
00:37:47louand still ... true
00:38:40 Quit toxicfume (Connection timed out)
00:38:58 Join midkay [0] (n=midkay@rockbox/developer/midkay)
00:39:35gpoojuxtap so what do you suggest for a student like me
00:40:48gpook bye
00:40:52 Quit linuxstb_ ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
00:41:00 Join tongas [0] (n=moi@d83-179-185-80.cust.tele2.fr)
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00:45:02 Join toxicfume [0] (n=attitude@ppp-58.8.4.76.revip2.asianet.co.th)
00:47:07 Quit Rob2222 ()
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00:56:18 Quit lee-qid ("Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com")
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01:00
01:06:58 Quit Rondom (Nick collision from services.)
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01:08:22 Nick Rondom_ is now known as Rondom (n=Rondom@mrbg-d9b953e7.pool.mediaWays.net)
01:08:26 Join Milkmaster [0] (n=55edaffb@labb.contactor.se)
01:10:21 Join flithm [0] (n=tim@chtwpe01bba-142177188216.pei.aliant.net)
01:10:46flithmhey everyone... I just got rockbox installed on my ipod and it's freakin' sweet! just wanted to say thanks
01:13:19MilkmasterIt may be slightly premature, but I'd really like to thank amiconn and also all the others involved for "taming" the ISP1362! If nothing else it's a great burst of hope and my enthusiasm for Rockbox. :)
01:16:03 Quit Milkmaster ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
01:17:02 Part flithm ("Leaving")
01:17:05 Join flithm [0] (n=tim@chtwpe01bba-142177188216.pei.aliant.net)
01:17:19toxicfumeIs it possible to Make the original iPod firmware startup by default..and then Rockbox to start only when I want it to?
01:18:03 Quit heff ("Client Exiting")
01:18:28Paul_The_NerdIt requires changes to the bootloader
01:18:57 Quit Rondom ("I'm leaving on a jetplane, don't know when I'll be back again...")
01:19:14flithmtoxicfume, you could carry two ipods :)
01:19:15toxicfumePaul_The_Nerd: Is there a bootloader that does that for the iPod Video?
01:19:43toxicfumeflithm: you could buy the other one for me :)
01:19:48Paul_The_NerdThere might be, I don't really know. The official one works the way it works, but the source code is available so if there's not one you could change it yourself.
01:19:50flithmtoxicfume, haha :)
01:20:12toxicfumenot much of a programmer here.
01:20:14Paul_The_NerdI know some people have made reversed ones available for various iPods, but I don't know whoch.
01:20:20toxicfumeoh okay
01:20:34Paul_The_NerdAnd they're not official, so if you have any problems, switch back to the real one before reporting them.
01:20:46 Join Daishi [0] (n=daishi@ool-45703854.dyn.optonline.net)
01:21:23flithmhey I just discovered there's a doom plugin... I found the page describing how to install the wad's and so forth, but there's no doom plugin on my plugin list... how do I install it?
01:21:26toxicfumeokay
01:21:46Paul_The_Nerdflithm: What player do you have?
01:21:54Paul_The_NerdAll supported plugins come with Rockbox.
01:22:00toxicfumeone more thing, in the case that I have to replace the firmware on my ipod with the original one, would the songs on my ipod be lost?
01:22:01flithmPaul_The_Nerd, ipod mini 2g −− ahh mine's not supported eh?
01:23:38Paul_The_Nerdflithm: Not yet, nope. Doom requires the grayscale library.
01:23:40scorcheflithm: nope..it is also not color =P
01:23:41 Quit jd_ ()
01:23:53Paul_The_Nerdtoxicfume: Depends on how you do it.
01:23:57flithmgotcha
01:23:58 Quit Daishi (Client Quit)
01:24:25 Join jd_ [0] (n=jd@wikipedia/Meanos)
01:25:53 Quit bobwise ("CGI:IRC")
01:29:03 Quit flynux (Remote closed the connection)
01:31:19mongeyanyone have a h300 here
01:32:20Paul_The_NerdWhy?
01:33:06mongeynvm fixed now
01:33:40 Join prout [0] (n=prout@2001:668:0:3:0:0:3000:22)
01:34:13mongeybut in the stock firmware when i went to change lcd brightness ect. the bars which ate supposed to be on the rail thing were off te screen and were jumping ect
01:34:34mongeyand bits on pink were showing up in 1 or 2 pixe,s
01:34:58mongeywondering if anyorne had this
01:35:49Paul_The_NerdAh
01:37:49 Quit prout (Client Quit)
01:39:27*mongey 뻣 WinAmp セ The Tangles - The Bucket セ 00:06/03:03 [−−−−−−−−−−−−−−] セ 256 kbps n/a カ
01:39:50mongeywoops
01:41:29mirakPaul_The_Nerd: what are the next rockbox objectives ?
01:41:38 Join flynux [0] (n=flynux@2a01:38:0:0:0:0:0:1)
01:41:45 Join Amien [0] (n=amien@s5591a0ed.adsl.wanadoo.nl)
01:41:48mirakbeside supporting as much dap as possible
01:41:57mirak(if it's even an objective)
01:42:06Amienis this correct? bookmark wont work if using id3tag mode
01:42:29Paul_The_Nerdmirak: At the moment, bugfixes.
01:43:05mirakjust a question, how to use the tag database ?
01:43:57PaulJammirak: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/WebHome?topic=TagCache
01:47:54 Join baobab68 [0] (n=ca3421eb@labb.contactor.se)
01:48:01baobab68hi all
01:48:44mongeyhttp://www.misticriver.net/showpost.php?p=461351&postcount=27 <<<<<< i need help with a comeback
01:49:04mirakPaulJam: thanks, I missed the file view step
01:49:55 Quit lodesi ("Parti")
01:50:07baobab68amiconn: just wanted to go on record with a hearty 'congrats!'
01:50:24 Join sando [0] (i=lolsteam@144.135.255.155)
01:53:45flithmdoes rockbox play (unencrypted) mpeg4?
01:54:29toxicfumei just installed rockbox, but how do i boot into the original firmware?
01:54:49toxicfumeusing ipod video
01:54:55 Quit midkay ("Leaving")
01:55:14Amienhold menu while booting
01:55:14Mikachuhttp://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IpodFAQ
01:55:18Paul_The_NerdI'm sure that's in the Manual or the FAQ, if not both
01:55:22linuxstbflithm: What kind of mpeg4?
01:55:32flithmlinuxstb, m4a?
01:55:46toxicfumePaul_The_Nerd: not as far as i could see, really.
01:55:56Mikachuit's in IpodFAQ
01:56:08linuxstbflithm: Even .m4a is vague... I'm guessing you mean AAC, and yes, Rockbox just about plays it.
01:56:24flithmlinuxstb, just about? :)
01:56:30Paul_The_Nerdtoxicfume: Apparently it's in at least the FAQ, as I just verified it's there.
01:56:37 Part baobab68
01:57:34linuxstbflithm: Yes. :) There is an AAC decoder, but it's not that good. It works for low bitrates (128kbps and maybe slightly higher) on the ipod, but can't decode in realtime on the iriver/iaudio players.
01:57:56*flithm nods
01:58:36linuxstbWe're waiting for either the ffmpeg project to perform another miracle and implement their own AAC decoder or for someone to work on optimising the one we've got.
01:59:05flithmcommercial players should really start shipping with rockbox... personally I love the ipod hardware but right from the first time it booted up I was astounded at how crappy its OS is given how popular it is
02:00
02:00:15toxicfumeit's not crappy IMO, the interface is intuitive and simple and just works for majority of the people who use it
02:00:44Paul_The_NerdIt was quite counterintuitive to me.
02:01:00Paul_The_NerdI kept trying to press the button labelled "Menu" with the expectation that it would bring me to a Menu from most screens.
02:01:39flithmnah it's total crap. the eq is shite, the way songs are organized is idiotic... give me a directory structure anyday... everything about it is weak. It's in no way made for people who like music −− which is what portable music players are all about.
02:01:59Paul_The_NerdNaah, iPod's aren't about people who like music.
02:02:04toxicfumenot here, once you figure out that center button is select, and menu goes back, it's really simple to navigate around
02:02:11Paul_The_NerdThey're about people who install huge subwoofers in their car and think it improves the way music sounds
02:02:15flithmhahaha
02:02:24flithmyeah I suppose you're right
02:02:48Paul_The_Nerdtoxicfume: Yes, but *why* does menu go back? Why not the key labelled "Left" since that's back considering the direction that menus point is to the right?
02:03:08Paul_The_NerdYou shouldn't have to figure out that keys don't do what their labels say in the STOCK firmware.
02:03:14toxicfumelets not get into philosophy here, but really for me i had no trouble getting used to it.
02:03:43 Quit obo ("bye")
02:03:53flithmat the very least a music player should have a fully tweakable EQ... I simply can't imagine releasing a music player without one, yet sure enough... apple did it and got away with it
02:04:13Paul_The_NerdI thought the definition of "Intuitive" pretty much implied that a user could pick it up and have things do what they expect without having to learn quirks...
02:04:23toxicfumeflithm: not everyone will mess about with a full EQ, that's useless for most people who only want to listen to their music.
02:04:28Paul_The_Nerdflithm: There are very few MP3 players that DO have one.
02:05:00toxicfumePaul_The_Nerd: I picked it up really quickly.
02:05:12flithmReally? that's madness!
02:05:14toxicfumenot trying to blow my horns but yes
02:05:25Paul_The_Nerdtoxicfume: To the contrary, a non-customizable one is useless for people who actually want to use it properly (lessen the effects of a setup that in some manner distorts their audio). And "Picked it up really quickly" is different from "Intuitive." Easy to learn is still by definition of the word intuitive, not intuitive, simply easy to learn.
02:05:51Paul_The_NerdI'll give Apple that their interface is simple, and really easy to learn.
02:06:07Paul_The_NerdBut at BEST it's counterintuitive since many things do the opposite of what one would expect from button labels.
02:06:19toxicfumewell, the Apple designed the player not for audiophiles who want to mess about with specific EQ settings
02:06:20Paul_The_NerdWe're talking definitions here, not your seeming assumption that "intuitive" means the same as "easy"
02:06:42 Quit PaulJam (".")
02:07:10Paul_The_Nerdtoxicfume: Then why have EQ settings at all. All the presets just distort the public's conception of what an EQ really is.
02:07:36scorcheintuitive is not asking someone what to hit to go back, then saying "oh. that was easy"
02:08:00Paul_The_Nerdscorche: Exactly, intuitive is pressing the first button that comes to mind when thinking "back" and having it work.
02:08:16Paul_The_Nerdscorche: Unfortunately, my thought was "If deeper is right, back is left"
02:08:19 Quit mirak (Remote closed the connection)
02:08:32flithmI had a friend with an ipod who didn't know you could turn it off by holding pause, or hit select and then rotate to seek inside a track for a year after he'd has his :)
02:08:42scorchethat too
02:09:01scorchei know many people that though how they turned their players off was to switch the hold on and wait
02:09:03toxicfumei dont get it, most people who i know who have ipods know how to navigate right away. Maybe it's not intuitive as in being clear with the symbols and words on the interface
02:09:25scorche*thought
02:09:28Paul_The_Nerdtoxicfume: So the first button they press to go back is always Menu, the first time they use it, without asking?
02:09:47scorchewithout seeing it be used before?
02:10:04toxicfumeofcourse by "right away" i meant the first few uses. Lol, such nitpicking on my words i better give up now.
02:10:21Paul_The_NerdWell, you used "Intuitive"
02:10:25Paul_The_NerdWhich has a very specific meaning
02:10:27Paul_The_NerdWhich you seem to have missed.
02:10:28toxicfumeI'm sprry.
02:10:31toxicfume*sorry
02:10:43Paul_The_NerdBesides, Apple MADE the iPod
02:10:47toxicfumei beg for your forgiveness?
02:10:52Paul_The_NerdWhy did they write "Menu" on the button, if that's not what it's for?
02:11:27Paul_The_NerdBelieve it or not, they actually got to pick what was written on the player AND what the buttons do.
02:11:34*scorche exits the conversation just as quickly and seamlessly as he came into it
02:11:44Paul_The_Nerd:)
02:11:45toxicfumewell, they've outsold every other player, they have done something right.
02:11:52 Quit sandoaway (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:12:00scorchetoxicfume: it is called advertising
02:12:06scorcheerrrr....im out
02:12:18Paul_The_NerdYeah, sales aren't representative of quality.
02:12:21*Paul_The_Nerd points at VHS.
02:12:38toxicfumeand i really dont think that deeply about what "Menu" means and what it's supposed to do and what the right symbol means, I press it, see what it does, and remember it.
02:13:03Paul_The_Nerdtoxicfume: By that definition any interface is fine, since it's all trial and error. Why label buttons at all?
02:13:16flithmthis is so awesome
02:13:18toxicfumeMenu deals with Menus for me
02:13:19flithmeq with precut
02:13:23flithmdeargod I'm happy :)
02:13:31toxicfumeand i understand the ipod that way
02:13:37Paul_The_NerdHow does it "deal with menus"?
02:13:42toxicfumeif I press Menu, it's going to take me to the top level Menu
02:13:49Paul_The_NerdBut it doesn't.
02:13:51Paul_The_NerdIt goes back one level.
02:13:57toxicfumeand if i hold it, it'll take me to the Main menu
02:14:06toxicfumesorry top level = one level above the current position.
02:14:11toxicfumeenglish isn't my first language.
02:14:30 Quit tongas (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:14:51Paul_The_NerdBut from the Song list, hitting Menu takes you to the Album list, rather than any Menu.
02:14:51toxicfumethere it is, it deals with menus
02:15:05toxicfumeAlbum list is the Menu
02:15:14Paul_The_NerdNo, it's a list of Albums
02:15:24Paul_The_NerdOtherwise the only place that ISN'T a menu is the While Playing Screen, and the games.
02:15:33toxicfumei dont know, replacing that word with Menu works for me
02:15:47Paul_The_NerdSo, it works because you've chosen to redefine what things are until it does.
02:15:48Paul_The_NerdGotcha
02:15:54Paul_The_NerdFair enough
02:15:56toxicfumewow, the interface must have been way too confusing the first time you sed it
02:16:02toxicfume*used
02:16:08Paul_The_NerdNo, I had no problems using it.
02:16:18Paul_The_NerdI just said it isn't intuitive. There's a difference.
02:16:57Paul_The_NerdThere are very few truly intuitive interfaces. I think a one-button mouse in a black and white paint program is about as close as you can get.
02:17:06toxicfumewell, it seems logical enough to me. But i guess maybe i dont have the perfect definition for the word intuitive
02:17:42toxicfumewell but the interface just works, it's really simple and logical i think.
02:17:59toxicfumeofcourse no one would get it on the first go
02:18:23Paul_The_NerdIt took me about 15 seconds to have a pretty firm grasp on it.
02:18:34scorchetoxicfume: you are on the edge again with the word "logical" instead of intuitive
02:18:37Paul_The_NerdAnd about 5 more to think "Man, that's pretty stupid. Menu should open up a menu, and left and right should actually go left and right."
02:18:51Paul_The_NerdLogical and Intuitive are almost opposite concepts.
02:19:12xoderPaul_The_Nerd: there are many ways to do an "intuitive" interface. The problem is that they are all misrepresenting themselves. There is no Intuitive Interface. If you're lucky, you can base your interface off of someone else's and then its intuitive to those former users. If you're lucky, you can make an interface intuitive to a certain subgroup of people.
02:19:14Paul_The_NerdLogical relating to reasoning, and Intuitive meaning that it requires no reasoning whatsoever, instead springing from instinct and intuition.
02:19:17flithmmy ipod has never sounded so good. Now if only I could fit a subwoofer into its case somehow
02:19:28scorchePaul_The_Nerd: however, it isnt logical that menu wouldnt take you to the menu
02:19:51toxicfumea menu is a list of items for me
02:20:01Paul_The_Nerdxoder: Yup, as I said there aren't any *truly* intuitive interfaces really. That's why Rockbox is nice. By definition it's mostly intuitive to previous Rockbox users when they switch devices.
02:20:26xoderYay! Agreement!
02:20:54Paul_The_Nerdtoxicfume: So, "Explorer" shows you a menu of your drive?
02:21:38toxicfumeif it was on another device, and they used the term menu, i would understand it
02:23:38Paul_The_NerdUnderstanding it is completely different from expecting it.
02:23:51toxicfumeI dont expect much anyways :P
02:24:14Paul_The_NerdThe whole idea of intuitive is "does what the user is most likely to expect" for interfaces. At least, in general
02:24:26Paul_The_NerdThat's why my point was that the Menu button doesn't do what I'd expect it to.
02:24:47Paul_The_NerdI've already said that the interface is easy to use, and simple.
02:24:57 Quit jd_ ()
02:25:07Paul_The_NerdSo clearly the only point we have left to disagree on is intuitiveness. Which you gave up on, but then for some reason kept responding and arguing.
02:25:15toxicfumewell the only thing that i remember thinknig when i saw the Menu button for the first time was that this button has something to do with Menus, and the definition worked for me, ofcourse it may not work for everyone else.
02:25:53Paul_The_Nerd"Something to do with Menus"
02:25:54Paul_The_NerdHehehe
02:25:57Paul_The_NerdWonderfully vague.
02:26:13*Paul_The_Nerd is going to make a remote with 10 buttons each labelled "Channel Number"
02:26:32toxicfumeyeah, i didn't thnik anything in specific
02:26:48toxicfumeMenu = this button has to deal with menus, that's it.
02:26:53 Quit flithm ("Leaving")
02:26:57toxicfumeand then i started using it
02:27:11Paul_The_NerdOn *most* devices, the menu button calls up the menu.
02:27:16toxicfumeand whenever i pressed it, it would take me to a menu one level above the current position. It worked for me.
02:27:24 Quit earHertz ("Chatzilla 0.9.72 [Firefox 1.5.0.3/2006052320]")
02:27:25Paul_The_NerdAnd we're talking everything here: Cameras, Television Remotes, other MP3 players, etc, etc, etc.
02:28:24*Paul_The_Nerd wishes that the PortalPlayer guy would respond today, but decides it's unlikely.
02:28:32toxicfumethis one does too, but it wont for you because of your strict definition of Menu
02:28:48toxicfumebut i have a vague one
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02:29:43toxicfumea flexible definition+ slight learning(like you said less than 15 seconds), made it work for me.
02:29:50amiconnPaul_The_Nerd: On Saturday? Highly unlikely imho
02:29:54Paul_The_NerdAnd I never said ANYTHING about it not working fine.
02:30:04Paul_The_Nerdamiconn: It's 5:30 PM sunday where he is, I believe
02:30:08*Genre9mp3 wonders how precise is the battery ETA
02:30:13Paul_The_Nerdamiconn: Friday, not sunday
02:30:15amiconnAH, 'cause
02:30:19toxicfumePaul_The_Nerd: are you a programmer?
02:30:28Paul_The_Nerdtoxicfume: Why?
02:30:29amiconnHmmmmm
02:30:30toxicfumesorry for generalizing.
02:30:35Genre9mp3I just couldn't resist and checked the battery level of my H340
02:30:54pixelmaGenre9mp3: thanks for the work ;)
02:30:56Paul_The_Nerdamiconn: I got a read receipt confirmation hours ago, but that doesn't necessarily mean much.
02:31:18toxicfumethey tend to be really specific and nitpicky about words and definitions people say. It's not an insult btw, just an observation.
02:31:26toxicfume*say/use
02:31:27Genre9mp3After 5 hours the battery is at 81% which is more than expected! :)
02:31:37Genre9mp3hi pixelma
02:31:57Paul_The_Nerdtoxicfume: I'm more nitpicky about them in arguments than in normal, because it's really important to have a clear understanding about what's being disagreed on.
02:32:19amiconnFor some reason I thought portalplayer was asian...
02:32:27Genre9mp3pixelma: can't see hardeep around though....
02:32:48Paul_The_Nerdamiconn: Well, the guy I contacted is in San Jose, California
02:33:03toxicfumeokay question
02:33:08Genre9mp3maybe someone else with CVS access can commit the updated files
02:33:12pixelmaGenre9mp3: I also mean the fmr-files and especially updating the zips
02:33:14amiconnYeah, and that's the headquarters according to their website
02:33:23Paul_The_Nerdamiconn: Though they're also in Hyderabad, India
02:33:32Genre9mp3Oh...np
02:34:04***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:34:05toxicfumeif I unhide the Ipod_Control folder, will rockbox be able to be the weirdly organized mp3 files and would they still work in the Apple firmware?
02:34:14Paul_The_NerdI like to pretend that the lack of response despite the read receipt means that it's actually gone somewhere for discussion, since I didn't just receive an outright "no"
02:34:35Paul_The_Nerdtoxicfume: TagCache doesn't care if the folder's hidden or not, I believe
02:35:01Genre9mp3At a previous battery bench I made some time ago, the battery went to 81% after 2 hours and 15 mins...Now it went to that level after 5 hours!!!
02:35:14Paul_The_NerdSo, about twice as long
02:35:20Paul_The_NerdPretty much what is expected, right?
02:35:26Genre9mp3more than twice I could say
02:35:31Paul_The_NerdA wee bit more
02:35:53Paul_The_Nerd2:15 * 2 == 4:30, you said ~5 hours, fairly close.
02:36:08amiconnlinuxstb: Hmm, it seems we could save some energy on PP5022:
02:36:55amiconn"...uses ultra-low 1.2V core supply voltage and *system enabled dynamic voltage scaling*"
02:37:10amiconnNow if we only knew how to control it...
02:37:16toxicfumeokay, i think im' conditioned to be comfortable with apples interface, because now i'm finding rockbox confusing
02:37:40Paul_The_NerdHehehe
02:38:45Genre9mp3Paul_The_Nerd: I would say it's about 120% more
02:39:29Paul_The_NerdGenre9mp3: It's possible. We'll see on the full benchmark, 'eh ;)
02:39:42Paul_The_NerdEither way, it'll make you guys happy
02:39:42toxicfumePaul_The_Nerd: in the Rockbox File browser I dont see the iPod_Control folder, is it because it's hidden?
02:39:51Paul_The_Nerdtoxicfume: Yes
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02:40:19Genre9mp3Paul_The_Nerd: Of course...It's just that I can't wait for the results :)
02:40:22toxicfumePaul_The_Nerd: alright. But if I unhide it, will it mess up the playlist in the Apple OS?
02:40:23Paul_The_Nerdtoxicfume: If you set it to show all files (Hold Menu to get the quickmenu, then change the file view) you can browse it, but it's not much use since the filenames are strange.
02:40:35Paul_The_NerdYou don't need to unhide it to browse it.
02:40:36toxicfumeoh okay
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02:48:37xoderSo, has anyone thought about taking the JPEG viewer and turning it into a PNG viewer?
02:48:44xoder[the plugin, that is]
02:48:56Paul_The_NerdNobody's done it.
02:49:10xoderI've been looking at the jpeg plugin viewer, and the decoding is pretty easily seperated from the UI
02:49:17Paul_The_NerdIt'd be neat if someone also hooked up BMP display as well
02:49:37Paul_The_NerdRight now BMPs have no default action, but are supported because you can set proper resolution ones as backdrops. It'd be nice if you could view all the rest of 'em. ;)
02:49:58xoderso, then could the display be handled by a system call?
02:50:04xoder(for BMP)
02:50:10Paul_The_NerdI really don't know.
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02:50:52earHertzI ewas going to switch to linux, but I heard it's for hippies and communists
02:51:07midkayPaul_The_Nerd, i also suggested this ('since the bmp display code is already in the core, why don't we have a viewer?')..
02:51:22midkaythe response was that we should probably wait and turn the jpg plugin into an image viewer supporting multiple formats or so..
02:51:33xoderThe biggest concerns for me about PNG are: whether I can just drop the CRCs (This is an embedded system, and we shouldn't waste time), how to best impliment COMPRESS, and the proper color decimation for 24bit PNGs (as well as the proper mapping for palletted ones)
02:52:09Paul_The_Nerdmidkay: Well, I was just suggestiong implementing BMP viewing in the Jpeg viewer... so... :-P
02:52:10xodermidkay: I disagree about making the jpeg viewer multiformat. It uses quite a few JPEG-specific rendering tricks
02:52:29midkayi don't necessarily mean converting the jpeg viewer itself, sorry.. i just mean a general image viewer.
02:52:40Paul_The_NerdThe plugin itself should be imageview.rock
02:52:40midkayhaving different viewers entirely for jpg, bmp, png, etc... is not a good idea.
02:52:46midkayright, like that.
02:52:47Paul_The_NerdWith the UI code separate from the format-specific portions
02:53:06amiconnmidkay: (1) Why? (2) On archos it might be necessary to have separate viewers
02:53:19Paul_The_Nerdxoder: Look at the existing Rockbox code for 24-bit bitmaps and you can probably use their existing conversions for the colors.
02:53:22midkayamiconn, haha, it was in fact you who suggested this, if memory serves me right..
02:53:25earHertzmidkay: the GUI shoould be the same. Teh implemtation should be differnt. The gui should call a set of rendring functins.
02:53:29 Quit Poka64 ("night")
02:53:39midkayearHertz, did i suggest otherwise?
02:54:00Paul_The_NerdOooh... ooh... Image Codecs! For rendering them to WPS as well! :-P
02:54:01earHertzmake a common viewer gui, and establish a siomple AI for rendering functuions
02:54:10earHertzPaul_The_Nerd: yeah, more or less
02:54:10xoderthe JPEG viewer uses several shortcuts that only work in YUV space. PNG uses RGB space
02:54:22midkaysigh.. i'll slip on out of this discussion..
02:54:23xoder(especially for monochrome or 2-bit displays)
02:54:29amiconnAbove all, the JPEG viewer uses idct scaling
02:54:44amiconnThe colour space is much less of a problem
02:54:45xoderwhich simply wouldn't work for any other format
02:54:52earHertzholy crap! speed freaks eat cats!?
02:55:14*earHertz is watching a sdocumentary on drugs
02:55:48xoderamiconn: on second thought, you're right about the colorspace thing
02:56:28xoderI'd also be concerned that since we can't use something like idct scaling, we'd have to render the whole image to memory and then zoom/decimate, which would suck memory hardcore
02:57:39amiconnNot necessarily
02:57:56amiconnWe could load stripes into a buffer and scale down
02:59:00xoderi like that idea
03:00
03:01:47 Part pixelma
03:03:19mongeyhas anyone changed their battery on their h300?
03:09:13 Join XavierGr [0] (n=xavier@ppp123-77.adsl.forthnet.gr)
03:09:34amiconnmongey: If you're looking for a guide: http://www.misticriver.net/showthread.php?t=34257
03:09:59amiconnI didn't replace the battery, but I used that guide for opening my H340 to do my measurements
03:10:13amiconnEasier than figuring it out myself
03:10:33mongeyim lookig for a place to buy one
03:10:56Paul_The_NerdEbay seems popular
03:11:39mongeycrap
03:11:55mongeywhere would i get the really small screwdrivers
03:12:15earHertzmongey: in little tiny bars
03:12:23Paul_The_NerdHahaha
03:12:31Paul_The_NerdYou can pick 'em up at many electronics stores.
03:12:45Paul_The_NerdIf you're in the US, Fry's Electronics, Radio Shack, or just about any hardware store.
03:13:54mongeyireland :P
03:14:22earHertzmongey: mug a leprechaun who reads slashdot
03:14:29Paul_The_NerdThat ought to do it, yes.
03:14:53*mongey puts his hunting gear on
03:14:56mongeybbs
03:15:11earHertzis it cannibalism to ear leorechaun?
03:15:15earHertzeat
03:15:27Mikachui don't think it's been tried in court
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03:27:32chendo1woo
03:27:51chendo1i love you amiconn <33
03:28:08chendo1although what does the faster ATA timings do?
03:31:56 Quit mirak (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
03:34:26luckzhttp://www.iaudiophile.net/forums/showpost.php?p=88087&postcount=22 <−− mh?
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03:43:29mongeyemmm
03:43:52mongeypanic came up on my screen
03:44:10mongey=/
03:44:44ashridahit's the apocalypse! run! :)
03:45:13idnarDon't Panic
03:45:26mongeyi have to find the leprechaun
03:45:28idnarwe need Rockbox H2G2 Edition
03:45:41mongey?
03:46:02ashridahmongey: hitchhikers guide
03:46:12ashridahidnar: not a bad idea for a WPS
03:46:27ashridahpity we can't script the hell out of the interface for rockbox
03:46:38Paul_The_NerdI think the Wikipedia on Rockbox effort kinda implements that idea too
03:46:41ashridahhow cool could it get, have all the funky animations :)
03:46:43idnarheh
03:47:55chendo1oh yeah
03:48:11chendo1does anyone else have small dots and stuff on the screen of a H300 when the hard drive is spinning?
03:48:44Paul_The_Nerdchendo1: How old/new is your build?
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03:49:25chendo1it's got the battery patch on it
03:49:30chendo1and it's been happening for a while
03:51:38Paul_The_NerdOkay, see, neither of those statements answered my question...
03:51:52Paul_The_NerdI guess you mean "It's a build from after Amiconn fixed the battery issue"
03:52:10Paul_The_NerdBut there is another patch on the tracker relating to power management on the H300, if I recall, so I can't be sure.
03:52:23Paul_The_NerdAnd "battery patch" rather clearly implies a patch rather than something official...
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03:52:46Genre9mp3chendo1: Please..answer the question! :)
03:52:49 Quit mirak (Client Quit)
03:53:18Genre9mp3he can continue talking for ages...
03:55:11Paul_The_NerdIt's really not safe for me to make the assumption that by "battery patch" you mean "it's a new build"
03:55:11chendo1Paul_The_Nerd: battery patch is that one in CVS...
03:55:11aliaskIs rockbox.org down?
03:55:11chendo1and sorry, i was getting mine to ork
03:55:11Genre9mp3Paul_The_Nerd: Just teasing you.. :)
03:55:11mongeythe panic is after coming up again
03:55:11Paul_The_NerdWhich was never actually a patch, so calling it "the battery patch" really makes very little sense.
03:55:11mongeymount 0
03:55:11Paul_The_Nerdaliask: I know I can't get to it. =/
03:55:11*chendo1 shrugs
03:55:11DBUGEnqueued KICK Paul_The_Nerd
03:55:11Paul_The_Nerdchendo1: Okay, do the dots happen in Rockbox only, or in iRiver as well?
03:55:26chendo1lemme check
03:55:26aliaskAs soon as I want that damn ISP chip to go to sleep, rockbox.org fails. Brilliant. :D
03:55:26chendo1Paul_The_Nerd: no, it doesn't
03:55:29chendo1and the screen also flickers on HD access and doesn't in iRiver
04:00
04:00:03Paul_The_NerdI seem to remember there being a bug like that, I thought it'd been resolved though
04:00:06Paul_The_NerdApparently not
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04:18:42earHertzanybody want to give me a rundown on adding a settings menu?
04:20:50midkaysettings_menu.c?
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04:20:57earHertzyah
04:21:25midkayhonestly, i'm not familiar with it, but it wasn't hard for me to figure out as far as adding an entry.. just look around and try to figure it out..
04:21:35earHertzok
04:21:36midkaya good tactic would be to look at a menu that's similar to what you want to add.
04:21:49earHertzyah
04:22:07midkaye.g. "System".. find the lang id (e.g. LANG_SYSTEM).. search settings_menu.c for it.. see where it's referenced, and add yours in all those places.
04:22:29earHertzrigjht, thanks
04:22:45midkaynp. :)
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04:25:03Kyl3Great job on solving that about the iRiver Battery Consumtion.
04:25:08Kyl3Its so much better
04:25:38earHertzmidkay: did yiou know that speed freaks eat cats?
04:29:35Kyl3Are you guys working on an iPod 3g port?
04:29:52midkayearHertz, i did not. :)
04:29:57midkayuntil your message like an hour ago.
04:30:03midkayKyl3, it's in development, yes..
04:30:09midkayi think rockbox may even run on it, but no audio.
04:30:13earHertzmidkay: it's important to know
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04:30:28midkayare you a SPEED FREAK, earHertz?!
04:30:55earHertzno, no, some hippie said it in a dicumentary shoot in teh sixties in sanfran
04:31:20earHertzthey'd get all hopped up, and capture alley cats and eat them
04:31:32midkayhaha. that's awful/disgusting.
04:31:40 Quit actionshrimp ("( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.01 :: www.XLhost.de )")
04:31:50earHertzso, more speed freaks, fewer feral cats, more rats, = plaque
04:31:54earHertzplague
04:32:05earHertzthink about it!
04:32:14Kyl3ok cool
04:32:50earHertzgoddamn hippies
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04:38:55midkayhaha.
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04:56:19jungti1234hey
04:56:23jungti1234'During save of file Main.IriverE10Info an error was found by the version control system. Please notify your Rockbox administrator.' what's mean?
04:56:31jungti1234Topic save error
04:56:51 Join goffa [0] (n=goffa@216.220.23.105)
04:58:27midkayhard to say, try copying everything in it, closing the window, going back and hitting edit, re-pasting it, and saving again..
04:58:43midkaymaybe cause the server seemed to go down for a little while recently.
05:00
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05:17:08jungti1234midkay
05:17:17dongsthey let jungti1234 have commit access?
05:17:22jungti1234no
05:17:29dongsis he uploading zerg WPS theme? :D
05:17:34jungti1234no
05:17:38jungti1234dongs
05:17:41jungti1234why zerg?
05:17:42midkaynot that funny..
05:17:44jungti1234japanese = monkey?
05:17:46midkayjungti1234, yes?
05:17:50dongsjungti1234: maybe
05:17:54jungti1234I don't understand.
05:17:58jungti1234your mind.
05:18:03dongsnobody does
05:18:10jungti1234Save attachment error /usr/bin/ci -q -l -mOMMENT|U% -t-none -wSERNAME|S% %FILENAME|F%
05:18:15jungti1234ci: missing message for -m option
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05:19:01jungti1234why happen error?
05:19:04midkayjungti1234, did you try it again?
05:19:10midkayafter re-opening the page?
05:19:15jungti1234ok, wait
05:19:56jungti1234hmm
05:20:03jungti1234I did try again
05:20:09jungti1234but error happen too.
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05:36:11spifwandhi
05:36:13spifwandso like
05:36:19spifwandi have rockbox firmware on
05:36:24spifwandand i'm completely out of battery
05:36:28spifwandnow i can't charge
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05:36:50midkaymaybe you could be more specific.. what model?
05:36:54spifwandhttp://home.comcast.net/~kidd3ckz/06-16-06_1359.3gp
05:37:03spifwandquicktime video of it
05:37:07spifwandhows that for specific?
05:37:18spifwandit just keeps rebooting
05:37:59midkaytry holding menu+select to reset, and then menu+play as soon as the apple logo comes up.. should enter disk mode..
05:38:18midkayi think this is a rather rare but known problem with a few units, where USB detection acts weird.
05:38:26spifwandmmk
05:38:30spifwandbrb
05:38:59spifwandthank you
05:38:59spifwand:)
05:39:10midkaynp, if it helps..
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05:39:14spifwandit did
05:39:21spifwandnow it just stays at "safe to disconnect"
05:39:26spifwandand i assume its charging
05:39:52midkaydid you plug it in afterwards? what's the icon say? does it show a battery with a charge icon?
05:39:56midkaybolt of lightning i think.
05:40:07spifwandi did it while it was plugged into the wall
05:40:15spifwandand now its got a check mark with "Safe to disconnect"
05:40:22spifwandand the little battery at the top i believe is blinking
05:40:34spifwandrather its animating
05:40:44midkayyeah, that sounds right..
05:40:51spifwandsounds perfect :)
05:40:54midkaymaybe it will fix itself if you let it charge for a while and try it again. :)
05:40:54spifwandsounds like YOUR THE MAN
05:40:57spifwandor woman
05:40:58midkayhaha.
05:41:01midkaythe first one.
05:41:03spifwandbut most likely man
05:41:05spifwand;)
05:41:07midkay:)
05:41:41spifwandyeah it was rebooting i believe cuz it was totally out of a charge i left it playing to drain my bluetooth headphones
05:41:55spifwandwhich btw are awesome
05:42:00midkayah.. yeah, possible.
05:42:04midkaycool. :)
05:42:05dongslol bluetooth
05:42:15dongsdoes bluetooth even have enough bandwidht to send raw 44khz pcm?
05:42:15midkaybtw, also check your connection to your PC from the cable..
05:42:28dongslast i checked bluetooth was like 115kbit
05:42:29midkayobviously..
05:42:35dongsobviously?
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05:42:53midkayif he has bluetooth headphones..
05:42:59spifwandlol
05:43:16dongsyeah, but what kinda shit quality do you get out of 115kbit link
05:43:17dongsfor audio
05:43:25midkaydongs, how about googling..
05:43:29spifwandi don't know much about bluetooth transmission rates, the ones i have are made by jensen
05:43:30dongssure!
05:43:47spifwandthe logitech ones don't fit the 5g
05:43:59spifwand20 ft line of sight required
05:44:06spifwandif i get my arm in the way it stutters
05:44:11midkayhaha.
05:44:16spifwandso i walk with a limp
05:44:18spifwand;)
05:44:49midkaysounds like it isn't worth it :)
05:46:28spifwandpsssh i get ppl all the time double taking "OMG WHERE ARE UR WIRES?" "thats that new BT technology"
05:46:31spifwandtotally worth it to stunt
05:46:37midkayhaha.
05:46:52midkays'pose so :)
05:47:02spifwandand i'm poor so i stunt as much as possible with as little as possible
05:47:29midkayhaha. btw, i noticed you're using a wall charger.
05:47:31midkaythat may well be the problem.
05:47:45midkayin fact i'm sure it is.
05:47:45dongsData Rate: 1 Mbps
05:47:55spifwandrockbox don't charge with wall?
05:47:55dongswow, so they're NOT sending raw 44khz pcm
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05:48:08dongswhat a waste, i bet audiophiles are puking right now
05:48:21midkayspifwand, rockbox can't detect the difference between USB or charger since they both use the same port.
05:48:37midkayand so it assumes USB, reboots to disk mode, and then disk mode says "hey, this ain't usb.. let's reboot back to rockbox"..
05:48:38midkayand so on.
05:48:51spifwandmakes sense
05:48:59midkayforcing disk mode is the best option for charging from wall.. which is how i told you.. select+play on boot.
05:49:09midkaythat way it won't automatically reboot after it decides it's not USB.
05:49:15spifwandsounds good, i'll remember that
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05:49:30spifwandso now that and video are the only quirks that irk me
05:49:39spifwandbut i still love rockbox to teh max
05:49:45spifwandall the girlies love it
05:49:46midkaydon't expect it soon.. :)
05:49:49midkayhaha.
05:49:49spifwandpssh im not
05:49:50midkaynice.
05:50:05midkayapple's firmware plays really nice video anyways, i'm not holding my breath at all..
05:50:26spifwandyeah i actually put ipod defualt firmware back on it cuz im like "oh well rockbox can't play videos"
05:50:33spifwandbut then... i never loaded any videos on it for 2 months
05:50:37midkayyou know you can dual-boot, right?
05:50:47midkaywith rockbox installed you can still access the default firmware.
05:50:53spifwandyeah but i already changed the layout of my songs
05:51:10spifwandthey're all in subfolders made with mediamonkey
05:51:21midkayah, but if you ever wanted videos, you could do that..
05:51:31spifwandyeah good point
05:51:59spifwandi'll dual boot next time i update it, i gotta put the theme tweaks on it too
05:52:06spifwandafter i figure out how to do that
05:52:08spifwandlol
05:52:24spifwandi'm learning flash, and final cut pro right now- and i'm adhd. so one thing at a time
05:52:32 Quit rotator ("zzzzzzzzzzz")
05:52:34midkaywhat do you mean, next time you update it? rockbox doesn't even have the capability to *not* dual-boot.. you could access the apple firmware *right now* if you wanted. :)
05:52:42midkayah, cool. :)
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05:52:52spifwandfpm
05:52:54spifwandbleh
05:53:04spifwandwhats the basic dual booting method?
05:53:25spifwandlike if i wanted to get into ipod i woulnd't be able to just hold down buttons right?
05:53:29spifwandi'd need to partition somthing?
05:53:43midkayjust power off, and to get into the default firmware, instead of pressing menu to turn on, just hold it down until you see "booting default firmware"..
05:53:56spifwandwow. im an idiot
05:53:57spifwand:)
05:54:05midkayhaha, nah.. lots of people overlook it. :)
05:54:36idnarit's not supported on some players, though
05:54:42idnarnot supported yet, I mean
05:54:45spifwandi'll tell u if it works in 2 seconds
05:54:50spifwand(approx_
05:55:04midkayidnar, what isn't?
05:56:16idnarmidkay: booting the original firmware
05:56:18spifwanddoesn't seme to work
05:56:36midkayidnar, um.. what players would those be?
05:56:42idnarmidkay: iAudio X5
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05:56:51midkayidnar, we're talking iPod here, of course..
05:57:02idnaryes, sorry, I should have been more clear about what I meant
05:57:04midkayspifwand, that's kind of an iffy way to do it.. might try again. be careful not to move you finger while you hold it..
05:57:12midkayidnar, :)
05:57:29spifwandhold down menu not center
05:57:30midkayspifwand, also you might try tapping menu and then holding it.. quickly, e.g. before the apple logo comes up.
05:57:35midkayyeah.
05:57:42spifwandthat workjs
05:57:43spifwand:)
05:57:45spifwandyay
05:57:51midkayyay yay.
05:58:09spifwandi just left it in that mode while it charges
05:58:17spifwandthen i'll throw some videos on there to celebrate
05:58:28midkayyaay. :)
05:58:33spifwand:)
06:00
06:01:17spifwandone more thing you might be able to help me with
06:01:24spifwandhow can i get my hostmasked on this server
06:01:25ashridahso how did we work out it was the usbotg chip that was sucking all the juice anyway?
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06:03:26midkayashridah, amiconn figured it out..
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06:03:39midkayspifwand, hm.. you can get unaffiliated ones somehow..
06:04:37midkayspifwand, http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#cloaks
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06:15:04CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
06:15:04*Paul_The_Ner1 wonders if he should ask for a project affiliation cloak.
06:15:19*midkay says 'certainly'
06:15:19midkay:)
06:16:09*midkay got his on a technicality.. at least Paul_The_Ner1 earned his. :)
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06:16:33Paul_The_NerdHey, you're actually in the credits though, right?
06:16:47midkayyes, that's part of the technicality.. :)
06:18:03Paul_The_NerdHehehe
06:18:18midkayyou certainly deserve to be there.. i'm clueless as to why you aren't. :)
06:18:29Paul_The_NerdProbably because I don't really care?
06:18:30Paul_The_Nerd;)
06:18:39midkayother people do! :)
06:18:58thePianoManIs there some way of viewing the volume label on the player?
06:19:50midkaypossibly in the debug menu.. view disk info, or view partitions, or something like that..
06:19:58midkaycan't remember, though.
06:20:03thePianoManCoz I saw this bug last night on a mate's iPod when I put RB on it: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/5217
06:20:19thePianoManI think it was after I deleted the iPod_Control directory
06:20:43midkaymaybe.. *shrugs*
06:20:49midkaymine hasn't disappeared.
06:21:20midkaybbiaf.
06:24:19PresenceHoly wow, congrats on the huge step forward in the H300 battery issue resolution, guys!
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06:31:12xellaphanCould someone answer a quick ? for me?
06:31:25midkaysure, if you ask it..
06:31:32midkayyou don't have to ask us if you can ask a question. :)
06:31:58*Paul_The_Nerd is somewhat distracted, so may miss questions in general.
06:32:00xellaphanI just used the IpodLinux installer and put on the bootloader 2 on my 5g
06:32:11xellaphancan i also add rockbox?
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06:32:32midkaywell, this isn't really the place for iPL's bootloader questions.. but rockbox should appear automatically, it did for me.
06:32:39xellaphanthe tut im using says i have to use an app manager
06:33:06Paul_The_NerdYou should be able to just extract Rockbox.zip into your fat32 partition, and Loader2 should handle the rest
06:33:29Paul_The_NerdBut if you have problems with it, you need to ask the iPodLinux people.
06:33:35xellaphanthe specific ? is how to multi boot rockbox under a current iPL 2.2 install?
06:33:46xellaphanoic
06:33:52xellaphanthanks!
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06:50:21ygfpersonhey everyone... the ifp-790 page in the wiki says that its port of rockbox is committed to cvs. where in the repository would it be?
06:50:46Paul_The_Nerdygfperson: Are you talking about source files, because I think they're somewhat intermixed by way of defines.
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06:52:29ygfpersonPaul_The_Nerd: intermixed?
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06:58:08Paul_The_Nerdygfperson: As in, the sources for the iFP port are the same as the rest. Many of the files are the same.
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06:58:45dongszz
07:00
07:00:04dongserg
07:00:05ygfpersonoic
07:00:46dongsygfperson: they think its easier to wade through hundreds of #ifdef IPOD #else LOLJEWS instead of keepign the source modular and separated
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07:03:15Paul_The_Nerddongs: Or perhaps the ifdefs merely happened and nobody's cleaned it up.
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07:09:39Jungti1234hm
07:09:41Jungti1234hi
07:13:29aliaskHi Jungti1234
07:13:55dongssup
07:17:33Jungti1234long time no see aliask :)
07:18:15aliaskYes, I'm usually pretty quiet on IRC.
07:18:21Jungti1234hehe
07:23:43Jungti1234ah?
07:23:43Jungti1234http://www.arm.co.kr/solution/1.php
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07:37:48habhi
07:41:22dongshi
07:42:21spifwandhi
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07:47:54habhelp does iriver play viedo or just ipod does that???
07:48:40ashridahthe H3xx can play specially reprocessed video, but rockbox can't do it yet, only iriver's firmware
07:49:06thePianoManand the iPod can only do it with the apple software
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07:49:41habnot even with rockbox??
07:50:55habhow do i lieten to FM on ipod ??
07:51:23thePianoManhab: remember that iPods are not supported yet. Not all features have been implemented!
07:51:39thePianoManyou can listen to FM if you have an FM remote and you boot into the apple software
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07:52:08habwhat about AM for games like local baseball?
07:52:54thePianoManhab: There is no hardware support for AM on iPods - have a look at the apple website. AM hardware is much bulkier than FM hardware so that's why there are a lot more FM tuners about than AM tuners
07:53:17dongslol, radio
07:53:42habok
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08:00
08:02:20Jungti1234hmm
08:02:40Jungti1234I scaned E10.
08:03:05Jungti1234But, name of chip doesn't seem.
08:10:45 Quit hab ("Chatzilla 0.9.73 [Firefox 1.5.0.4/2006050817]")
08:13:34Jungti1234I have question
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08:17:43midkayask..
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08:38:46Jungti1234Battery run-time problem is solved?
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08:39:56dongshah
08:39:58dongson what platform?
08:41:11aliaskJungti1234: Yes, we think it has. I don't think anyone has actually done a new runtime test yet. (H300)
08:42:34Rekoilwill rockbox feature video for compatible players ?... i mean when it is done
08:42:57aliaskWhen it's done? :)
08:43:19Rekoilbecause if it is to be considered an alternative it needs all possible features
08:43:30aliaskA few people have given video a shot, but so far I don't think it's been developed to a point where you could actually watch anything.
08:43:37Rekoilwell first release thats not considered "developers only"
08:43:49aliaskIt's not planned yet.
08:43:57Rekoilit has for iPL but only uncompressed video
08:44:39Rekoiland those take up a humongous amount of space
08:44:48aliaskAll it takes is someone with enough motivation (and the neccessary skills) to start work on it. At the moment nobody has really stepped up.
08:45:23Rekoilaegray did but i think hes dropped it yet (hes the guy who developed it for iPL)
08:45:32Rekoildropped it now*
08:46:06Rekoilhavent seen any changes in the video development for a while
08:47:31Jungti1234hmm
08:47:46Jungti1234'Rudimentary driver for the ISP1362 USB on-the-go controller. For now it just sends the chip to sleep'
08:47:48Jungti1234what's mean?
08:48:38aliaskIt means that amiconn was able to access the USB-OTG chip and tell it to go to sleep, so it uses less power.
08:48:49aliaskWhich means more battery :)
08:49:27Jungti1234So..
08:49:52aliaskSo for H300 maybe we get 15 (?) hours now.
08:50:30Rekoilwhat about iPod ? more batt. too ? or is it a different driver
08:50:46Jungti1234amiconn sent to sleep it approaching to USB-OTG chip, and does its battery time become much so?
08:51:13aliaskThe ISP1362 chip isn't in the iPod's, so it wasn't taking up any power. (Which means no change for iPod)
08:51:31Jungti1234Does its meaning guess right?
08:51:57aliaskJungti1234: Yes
08:52:13Jungti1234ok, Thanks
08:52:16Jungti1234and..
08:52:29Jungti1234Then, can it use later?
08:52:50aliaskUSB-OTG? Not yet.
08:53:37Jungti1234He's accessed to it.
08:53:39Jungti1234no?
08:54:43aliaskYes, but we havn't coded for the chip to access other USB devices yet. It just goes to sleep.
08:56:00Jungti1234ah. :) ok
08:56:43Jungti1234and..
08:58:38chendo1what's the faster ATA timings do?
08:59:16aliaskI think it gives the harddrive reading a slight speed boost.
08:59:37Jungti1234Now, can WPS make to be different in each device?
08:59:51Jungti1234'Added support for multiple rwps for same theme for different devices'
09:00
09:01:15Jungti1234and, 'Also updated wpsbuild to support different fonts for same theme depending on target screen.'
09:01:18Jungti1234what's mean?
09:02:06aliaskI don't know, actually... :)
09:02:50Jungti1234...
09:03:27Jungti1234Can it use other font in theme?
09:03:37dongsno
09:03:43dongsyou can specify a font
09:03:45Jungti1234Various fonts
09:03:50dongsbut you cant use multiple fonts
09:03:56Jungti1234what's mean
09:04:03dongs(another misengineering on the developers part)
09:04:11dongsbcause htey're still trying to support devices with 100x100 monocrhome screens
09:04:46dongsyour theme can say: use font xxx
09:04:51scorchedongs: why dont you just leave?
09:04:55dongsbut you cant say: use font xxx on one page and font yyy on another
09:05:02dongsscorche: waht hte fuck, STOP PERSONAL ATTACKS
09:05:19scorche<dongs> (another misengineering on the developers part)
09:05:21scorchesame to you
09:05:29dongsuh
09:06:02*scorche waits for the witty retort that dongs is sure to provide
09:06:35aliaskYeah, you havn't exactly been very helpful around here dongs.
09:06:41dongswhat do YOU know
09:06:46dongsyou ahvent even been in here as long as I am
09:06:57aliaskOh?
09:06:59dongsinfact today is the first time ive seen you in here
09:07:07dongsunless you changed nicks or something
09:07:08scorcheuhhhh...
09:07:13scorchememory of a goldfish?
09:07:26dongs10:52 -!- aliask [n=chatzill@c210-49-190-113.eburwd8.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #rockbox
09:07:29dongs10:53 < aliask> Is rockbox.org down?
09:07:30 Quit chendo1 ("( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: www.XLhost.de )")
09:07:31dongsthat was like 6 hours ago
09:07:39aliaskBecause I just logged on?
09:07:43aliaskI don't idle in IRC.
09:07:44dongswell yes?
09:08:09aliaskWhat exactly are you getting at?
09:08:12scorchedongs: one does not have to be in IRC to be of use...for all you know, he could be a core dev that simply doesnt come into irc
09:08:32dongscould would
09:08:34dongsbut is he?
09:08:41aliaskAnd anyway, what do you have against rockbox?
09:08:44scorcheno....but does that matter?
09:08:46dongsnothing
09:08:48dongsits great
09:09:03Jungti1234stop
09:09:06aliaskNo I'm not. I have submitted a few patches, and been hanging around for about two years.
09:09:12scorchehe may have not been in here that long, but he has been of MUCH more use in here than you have been your whole time
09:09:26dongsJungti1234: why are these people so angry.
09:10:09scorchedongs: cause you do nothing but announce to the channel how the devs are horrible, do things the wrong way...and lets not forget the utter nonsense that you spew
09:10:57*ashridah notes his first memory of dongs is him being all indignant about his settings getting wiped by a bump in the config version in rockbox.
09:11:13Jungti1234I don't speak English, situation isn't grasped....
09:11:32ashridahnevermind the fact that from a purely functional stand point, i've seen commercial firmware do the exact same thing
09:11:42scorcheJungti1234: it is not important...just trying to take care of someone that causes trouble =)
09:11:43ashridahexcept flashing the firmware isn't as common there, so you simply dont' care.
09:11:44aliaskJungti1234: Don't worry, it's not important talk. Dongs is stupid.
09:12:04dongsashridah: what, if you thought i was upset about my settings getting wiped, you need to ease off irc
09:12:34scorcheashridah: you havent seen him at his "high" points
09:12:51ashridahdongs: i said 'indignant', that's not really the same as upset, but a bit further than irritated. but that said, if you were't upset, why did you start paying out on the developers
09:12:58ashridahscorche: i've seen enough
09:13:18ashridahlike him ragging on linux based on some fonts from a gnome screenshot (which was actually from freebsd) for instance.
09:13:26scorcheashridah: i've seen too much =)
09:13:29dongspfft
09:13:31dongslike that matters
09:13:48Jungti1234stop fight
09:13:50scorcheashridah: please dont get him started on linux... =P
09:14:07ashridahdongs: apparently it does, since everyone in here thinks you're overly negative, and have stopped listenign to your GOOD suggestions.
09:14:08dongsJungti1234: ya, they need to STOP_ABUSE
09:14:10Jungti1234'Added support for multiple rwps for same theme for different devices', 'Also updated wpsbuild to support different fonts for same theme depending on target screen.'
09:14:19ashridahand now start bitching about you whenever you say something.
09:14:20Jungti1234I want to know its meaning only.
09:14:20dongsashridah: what good suggestions?
09:14:21scorcheJungti1234: we are trying....and trying to stop future fights (doubt that will happen though)
09:14:29dongsashridah: anything I would suggest in here wouldnt be taken seriously because it acutally makese sense
09:14:33dongsmakes rather.
09:14:35Jungti1234I want to know its meaning only.
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09:14:54dongsashridah: last time i suggested compiling rockbox with a real compiler, i was laughed at
09:14:54Jungti1234I don't know his mistake.
09:15:17dongsashridah: last time i suggested making all the hardware platforms separate instead a mess of #ifdefs in one file, etc etc.
09:15:19ashridahdongs: just how many free cross compilers do you know of, out of interest?
09:15:27dongsashridah: i said real, not free.
09:15:32scorchedongs: cause that compiler costs an exorbant amount of money
09:16:19dongsscorche: giving those who own it a choice would be nice.
09:16:35dongsbut using a shitload of (questionable) GNU extensions and GNU asm makes it rather difficult
09:16:45Jungti1234그만좀 싸워라
09:16:48Jungti1234내가 영어를 어찌아니
09:16:57Jungti1234니들이 내 불편함을 아냐
09:17:16scorchedongs: like we told you before...we do not have that compiler...if you wish it so much, we would welcome you to work on it yourself
09:18:02scorcheJungti1234: basically, it promotes better interoperability between the different units
09:18:38dongsscorche: i would, but i somehow dont feel like porting pages and pages of gnu asm to a real compiler
09:19:04scorcheJungti1234: and your last message did not come through clearly (at least not on my screen
09:19:12scorchedongs: then hush
09:19:17Jungti1234hey
09:19:29midkayhahaha.
09:19:32Jungti1234I don't understand your speech.
09:19:33dongshttp://pbx.mine.nu/jung.png < looks good here
09:19:48 Quit spifwand ()
09:20:04scorchemidkay: =)
09:20:25scorcheJungti1234: what is your native language?
09:20:34dongskorean obviously
09:20:48Jungti1234Korean, Hangul
09:21:09scorcheJungti1234: ah...sorry, but i do not have that language pack installed
09:21:39Jungti1234It's dispensable.
09:22:01scorcheJungti1234: unfortunately, i do not know of anyone else in here that understands it either
09:22:05 Join monkeyisl [0] (n=lol@218.236.247.157)
09:22:10dongslol
09:22:13monkeyislhigh
09:22:23monkeyislwhat is rockbox 3.0?
09:22:25ashridahscorche: that's been the case for a long long time. he seems to be okay with it.
09:22:34midkayit's the version that's coming next.
09:22:36monkeyisl하이
09:22:45scorcheashridah: cant blame me for trying =)
09:23:04monkeyisl한국 사람
09:23:13amiconnm0rning
09:23:26monkeyislYellow
09:23:29scorchemidkay: i know i will never get through to him, but like i said...cant blame me for trying here either
09:23:34 Quit toxicfume (Connection timed out)
09:23:44monkeyislKorea is history.
09:23:49Jungti1234oh?
09:24:03Jungti1234are you korean?
09:24:04Jungti1234:)
09:24:06midkayscorche, haha.. entertaining at least.
09:24:15scorcheamiconn: morning to you too =)
09:24:19monkeyisl
09:24:20scorchemidkay: ;)
09:24:25midkaymorning, amiconn.
09:24:26Jungti1234여기선 영어만 쓰세요..
09:24:42monkeyislYes
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09:24:46monkeyislwhat is this cannel for?
09:24:47 Join Strath [0] (n=donat@dpc67143207026.direcpc.com)
09:25:02Jungti1234At where did you come from?
09:25:14amiconnashridah: [06:01:25] <ashridah> so how did we work out it was the usbotg chip that was sucking all the juice anyway? <== Linus measured the H300 sucked more power than it should. I opened my H340 and measured the various chip temperatures with an infrared thermometer, once after playing a while in retailos, and another time while playing a while in rockbox
09:25:19scorchemonkeyisl: www.rockbox.org
09:25:46monkeyislJungti1234 : are you korean?
09:26:13Jungti1234yep
09:26:17monkeyisllol
09:26:26monkeyislwhat do you for a living?
09:26:32monkeyislomg
09:27:18Jungti1234monkeyisl: At where did you come from?
09:28:05monkeyislbecause i was curious of the channel name
09:28:14Jungti1234ah
09:28:24Jungti1234you don't know rockbox?
09:28:26midkayamiconn, have you done any battery testing since the fix? or anyone else?
09:28:28scorcheand it was magic as soon as i summoned him =O
09:28:34monkeyislJung : haven't used that
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09:28:48daurnimatorhi all
09:29:00monkeyislJung : are you a programmer?
09:29:06monkeyislJung : what are you working on?
09:29:16amiconnmidkay: Of course I started a runtime test (and several other people too). It's still running...
09:29:24Jungti1234no
09:29:32Jungti1234I'm not programmer
09:29:38midkayright, i meant 'is it finished'.. how long has it been going?
09:29:47Jungti1234Simply interest..
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09:29:58monkeyisli see
09:30:58amiconnmidkay: It's still running, and I expect it to go for at least another 6 hours
09:31:20midkaystill running since about when?
09:31:34amiconn~12:30 right now
09:31:46Rekoili have an idea for a patch
09:31:55monkeyislok i'm gonna play xbox360 byez
09:32:02dongslool
09:32:05midkayamiconn, so you started it right around the commit time?
09:32:17Rekoilauto-return to wps
09:32:26scorcheamiconn: how many hours ago for us in different time zones, not knowing what you are in =)
09:32:28Rekoillike in appleos
09:32:41Paul_The_NerdRekoil: Go ahead 'n do it then, and post it to the patch tracker.
09:32:43midkayoh, my bad.. 12h 30m..
09:32:56scorcheerrrr.
09:32:58midkaythought you meant 12:30 as in the current time.
09:32:59Rekoili dont know C Paul_The_Nerd
09:33:01*scorche smacks his head
09:33:07thePianoManthat's pretty good runtime
09:33:07dongswhat would it do
09:33:08midkaycool..
09:33:10daurnimatorwhat speed arm7 does ipod have?
09:33:16Paul_The_NerdRekoil: Then see if there's an existing feature request, and if there's not one, post one.
09:33:25dongs80mhz?
09:33:29dongsor someshit
09:33:30Rekoiland where do i do that ?
09:33:39daurnimatorand video ipod?
09:33:40Rekoil75mhz i believe
09:33:45Paul_The_NerdRekoil: The link that says "feature Requests" on the main page.
09:33:48dongsthe specs are on ipodlunix website
09:33:51Rekoildunno if its model specific
09:33:52amiconnmidkay: I started it ~1.5 hours after commit. Needed to charge the unit completely first
09:33:53dongsyou can find them
09:34:00Paul_The_NerdWe clock it to 75, but they range from 80 to I think 100 in the minis?
09:34:00RekoilPaul_The_Nerd: righto
09:34:21daurnimatoris the video ipod higher?
09:34:21thePianoMandaurnimator: it's generally clocked back to 30mhz in idle (under RB)
09:34:23scorchedaurnimator: 80
09:34:30Rekoilso why do we clock them to 75 if they can do more
09:34:32midkayamiconn, right. cool. :)
09:34:36amiconnmidkay: Btw, without the fix, the test would have ended ~1.5 hours ago...
09:34:41dongsRekoil: because the battery life already sucks
09:34:47Rekoiloh yeah
09:34:51Rekoiltrue
09:34:59midkaygreat to hear.. do you have any way to see the percent right now? or see how full the battery appears?
09:35:06amiconnPaul_The_Nerd: Only the PP5022 (mini g2) is specced up to 100MHz
09:35:20amiconnmini g1 uses PP5020 (80MHz)
09:35:25Paul_The_Nerdamiconn: I was close. :-P
09:35:32Rekoilhow come mini 2g runs faster than the video lol
09:35:49Paul_The_NerdRekoil: Because Apple didn't need it to run faster?
09:35:51midkaydongs, although your mostly-random guesses might occasionally happen to be nearly correct, they aren't generally too useful to people looking for actual information.. we wouldn't clock the cpu down 5mhz because "battery life sucks".
09:36:01scorcheRekoil: cause it uses a faster processor =) PP5022 vs pp5021
09:36:05amiconnProbably because the PP5022 was deemed too expensive, and apple didn't need the extra power
09:36:07Rekoilyeah that kinda makes sense
09:36:25amiconnThe video uses PP5021
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09:36:43scorchemidkay: i actually got him to hush till now =P
09:36:48Rekoilah
09:37:01Rekoilwith a video codec attached
09:37:07Rekoilobviously
09:37:12daurnimatorwhat about the nano?
09:37:14midkayscorche, hm? he's been talking for the last like 50 lines. :)
09:37:24Rekoilnano would use the same as the video
09:37:25 Quit darkless (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
09:37:42dongsmidkay: oh please
09:37:45thePianoManRekoil, not necessarily, depends on how apple's designed it
09:37:46dongsmidkay: then why
09:37:48scorchemidkay: so i was a little late with that remark...sue me
09:37:59Rekoilill have a look
09:38:13dongslast i heard one of the arm cores on nano was turned off to save battery.
09:38:20scorchedaurnimator: nano uses the same as video indeed
09:38:22midkaydongs, honestly, i think it's because we're being very general about iPod models' cpu. we certainly wouldn't reduce the clock by 5mhz when we're already at 75..
09:38:28daurnimatorok
09:38:33daurnimatorand thats 80mhz?
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09:38:43midkayi'm not entirely sure, but as you might notice i don't try to randomly guess as if i know what i'm talking about.
09:38:51scorchedaurnimator: correct
09:38:58Paul_The_NerdApparently the PP5022 claims 200mips, and so does the PP5024, so I wonder if it's safe to assume for the moment that it also is 100mhz.
09:39:00yeahxhi
09:39:05yeahxhow goes it?
09:39:25Paul_The_Nerddongs: Because there's no good reason to run it at full speed and risk generating too much heat?
09:39:45yeahxI haven't updated rockbox on my nano for a few months now, wouldnt I notice a change if I updated soon?
09:39:54dongsdoubtful
09:40:02dongsthey're not doing anything to ipods
09:40:07dongsjust fixing bugs on all platforms.
09:40:08yeahxok
09:40:26yeahxI was using it exclusively for a while
09:40:31scorcheyeahx: please ignore anything dongs says
09:40:31Paul_The_NerdThat statement doesn't make sense. Wouldn't "all platforms" imply iPods?
09:40:44dongsyeahx: why "was"?
09:40:45midkayhonestly.. that should be set as the channel topic. :)
09:40:59scorcheno kidding.
09:41:06scorchealong with no support of vid =P
09:41:16amiconnThe 75MHz were probably chosen for 2 reasons: (1) ipl uses the same value afaik. (2) The pll setup is done in a way that we can increase / decrease in 3 MHz steps
09:41:23midkayhaha.
09:41:39yeahxdunno, just decided to switch back
09:41:57yeahxand wait until it matured a little longer
09:42:08amiconndongs:
09:42:09amiconn[09:39:33] <dongs> they're not doing anything to ipods
09:42:09amiconn[09:39:38] <dongs> just fixing bugs on all platforms.
09:42:12yeahxI noticed the battery meter was at least trying to work though
09:42:16amiconnYou're contradidcting yourself...
09:42:32midkaydoes he ever not? *sighs*
09:42:34scorcheamiconn: nothing new =)
09:42:42yeahxI think he meant nothing but bug fixes, which would mean i wouldnt notice much of a change
09:42:52thePianoManI think what dongs was trying to say is that there are no new features being added, they're just bugfixing in the lead up to the 3.0 release.
09:42:53dongsamiconn: what now? ive been told more than once that 3.0 has nothign to do with ipods
09:43:09dongsas its still an 'unsupported' target.
09:43:12dongsand wont be so until end of htis year
09:43:18midkaythat's not entirely true.. for example the new star/sokoban bitmaps. those affected ipods..
09:43:26scorchehowever, he said "a few months"
09:43:28thePianoMansome bugs will be fixed in iPods though... if they're cross-platform bugs
09:43:35dongsgee, well, i kinda doubt thats what yeahx was looking for
09:43:39amiconnNo, and? The higher-level code is more or less the same for all targets
09:44:06midkaydongs, gee, well, it might be nice to note that "ipods aren't being touched at all for 3.0" is not true.
09:44:42amiconne.g. fixing bugs in the playback engine / playlist handling / tagcache / .... affects all platforms
09:44:55yeahxId like to mess with the now playing screen more but dont want to bother with it too much
09:45:15midkayso mess with it, but just be careful not to do it too much. :)
09:45:17yeahxI just use one of the boxed ones
09:46:13yeahxwhats UniCatcher?
09:46:18dongsnew wps
09:46:27dongskinda grayish looking
09:46:50yeahxthats what I thought
09:46:57yeahxwas thinking of checking that out
09:47:00*midkay wonderes where yeahx might have read the word UniCatcher without it being called a 'theme' or viewed from the 'themes' menu
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09:47:21yeahxoh I see wps/....
09:47:24yeahxsorry
09:47:27midkay.. :)
09:47:31yeahxthats why I dont come in here
09:47:38yeahxI ask stupid question and piss people off
09:47:46scorcheyeahx: no one is pissed =P
09:47:51scorchewe are just smart-asses
09:47:58yeahxoh ok :)
09:48:03midkayi'm teaching you a valuable lesson.. far from pissed. ;)
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09:48:15cehhey
09:48:51yeahxI try to figure things out, I was pretty much under the impression that it was a wps because of the extensions but didnt read the beginning of the path
09:49:06 Quit aliask ("workwork")
09:49:14midkayyou even saw the .wps extension? :)
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09:49:44yeahxno .bmp
09:50:01yeahxbut now I see at the bottom, yes I see the wps
09:50:07yeahxoops
09:50:28*midkay shrugs
09:50:32yeahxIm so used to not unerstanding anything on that page that I just skim for things that make sense to me
09:50:41midkayhaha.
09:51:08yeahxunderstanding too
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09:51:28yeahxits the only way to check for changes
09:51:42midkaywell, 'cept for the MajorChanges wiki page..
09:52:01cehI have heard that rockbox drains battery on the iriver3xx any news on that beeing improve?
09:52:02yeahxI used to update every monday before work
09:52:07midkaythere might be some technical info in the cvs logs, but it should all make sense to anyone..
09:52:25yeahxI could swear it drains my battery more too, but its hard to say
09:52:27midkayceh, sure, that problem was more or less entirely solved just today (yesterday for some?)
09:52:53cehsounds cool :)
09:53:02yeahxnot that it matters now because my work no longer allows headphones now :(
09:53:16midkay:\
09:53:23yeahxso I only get to use it on the way to work or if I jack it into the radio
09:54:21midkayoh well..
09:54:23midkaygot to reboot.. brb.
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09:54:32yeahxsure
09:55:08cehso you suggest that I get a dailybuild instead of the "other" version, to get around the battery problem?
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09:55:41yeahxhe just left for a minute
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09:55:59cehok :)
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09:58:19JdGordonevening all
10:00
10:00:10yeahxhi
10:00:33amiconnceh: See the second last commit on the frontpage?
10:01:08amiconnJdGordon: morning :)
10:01:19 Quit Rekoil ("( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.01 :: www.XLhost.de )")
10:01:34midkaysigh, i hate viewcvs.. what's up with this? does anyone know when we'll move to ViewVC or at least get this fixed?
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10:02:40tongasamiconn: you're SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO great !
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10:09:06JdGordonh300 battery life is fixed?
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10:10:21midgey34amiconn: just checking in before sleeping. the h320 is at 4% and has been running for about 13.5 hours
10:10:34midgey34if I remember my start time correctly
10:10:41amiconnWhat format?
10:10:48amiconnmusic format I mean...
10:10:50midgey34mp3 192 kbps cbr
10:11:27amiconnHmm. I would expect more... What runtime did you get before?
10:11:41midgey34eh about 8 hours or so
10:11:52midgey34I'm running the iCatcher wps
10:11:59midgey34so lots of bitmaps
10:12:11JdGordondidnt we decide the wps made no difference?
10:12:27midgey34I may have missed that, I've been inactive for a while
10:12:52amiconnRuntime will of course depend on things like backlight etc. My runtime test just plays the same album (192kbps mp3) in 'repeat all' mode. No backlight involved, and logging with battery_bench
10:12:54Paul_The_NerdI think it was "little difference"
10:13:06pixelmamaybe because iCatcher updates a lot for animation?
10:13:29amiconnI use a wps comparable to the default
10:13:33midgey34oh, and I have disk poweroff set to no
10:13:45midgey34but otherwise same test you described
10:14:05*amiconn has disk poweroff always enabled on units where it's supported
10:14:44midgey34I forgot to change the setting before starting the test
10:15:06midgey34all my settings were lost since I havent updating in a while
10:15:11hardeepdirectory cache/tag cache in ram will also affect battery life
10:16:07Paul_The_Nerdamiconn: On my H100, disk poweroff seems to let the buffer empty with flacs with the default 5s anti-skip buffer.
10:16:09amiconnWe need to decide whether it's better to keep the 'disk poweroff' option and just make it enabled by default, or remove the option altogether
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10:16:45amiconnPaul_The_Nerd: That's a known bug in the swcodec playback engine. It doesn't calculate buffer margins as it's supposed to be
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10:17:20amiconnThis bug exists since the swcodec playback engine was committed to cvs...
10:17:27Paul_The_Nerdamiconn: Yeah, that's kinda what I figured. 15 seconds resolves it for flacs anyway.
10:17:33Paul_The_NerdOr at least, my flacs
10:18:32amiconnThe swcodec playback engine doesn't use the setting as an extra margin (as it's suppposed to be), but directly uses it as the margin
10:19:21amiconnOn hwcodec, the engine monitors disk spinup time (using a safe default when the value is not yet availabe), and calculates the buffer margin from that and the track's bitrate
10:19:32Paul_The_NerdAaah
10:20:09chendospeaking of disk poweroff... that powers off the disk instead of spinning down yeah?
10:20:09amiconnThe anti-skip buffer setting starts from zero on archos, and I never needed a different value than zero
10:20:35Paul_The_NerdYeah, mine's set to 1 second and I've noticed no concerns.
10:20:48Paul_The_NerdIs there some reason the Bass and Treble default to 6 instead of 0?
10:20:51amiconnIt's purely extra buffer, for when you're e.g. jogging with the box and the harddisk can't read due to heavy shaking
10:20:56Paul_The_Nerd0 seconds, not 1 second.
10:21:32amiconnThe sound defaults are historic, and later we didn't want to change them.
10:21:38Paul_The_NerdAaah
10:22:21amiconnIirc Linus or Bagder said that in the beginning users complained that rockbox sounds "thin" compared to archos
10:22:33amiconnThat was even before I joined...
10:22:43Paul_The_NerdMy very first thought was "Hmm.... this doesn't sound right" and found the settings were up.
10:22:59amiconnOn player, treble and bass default are +7 dB
10:24:03*Paul_The_Nerd shrugs
10:24:19*amiconn actually uses roughly those values with earphones
10:24:57Paul_The_NerdOn mine it sounded too bass heavy.
10:25:12Paul_The_NerdBut I think the PX100s have a little more bass to them than I'm sure I like
10:25:19amiconnSince the player's MAS doesn't have loudness, it actually makes sense to boost treble & bass somewhat
10:25:41Paul_The_NerdAh
10:25:44amiconn...at least when you're listening at volumes like me
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10:27:25Paul_The_NerdLow volumes, I take it?
10:27:51amiconnSame goes for all other targets except archos recorders and Ondios (their MAS chips do have loudness)
10:28:44amiconnI'm usually listening at -50..-30 dB with earphones
10:29:24Paul_The_NerdIf I get below about -45 or -50 my headphones start sounding thin. Loudness will help with that?
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10:30:03JdGordonha, i was just in the battery debug section (just after updating the the latest cvs), jumped from 182min reminaing to 457!
10:30:33daurnimatorlol
10:31:14JdGordoncept its coincidence, coz it hadnt rolod' the new firmware
10:33:13Jungti1234return
10:33:40Jungti1234I opened once more E10.
10:33:53Jungti1234And took very many pictures.
10:34:00Jungti1234hehehe
10:34:05JdGordonhehe well done
10:34:14***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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10:43:04JdGordonhas any1 used x2x ?
10:45:52Jungti1234hmm
10:45:54Jungti1234aliask?
10:46:16Jungti1234I don't understand the meaning yet....
10:46:31Jungti1234'Added support for multiple rwps for same theme for different devices', 'Also updated wpsbuild to support different fonts for same theme depending on target screen.'
10:46:32 Quit monkeyisl (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
10:47:37thePianoManJung: this means that the same theme can be used on different players
10:47:59thePianoManand on each different player it may have a different font or different pictures
10:48:16thePianoManI hope that it makes sense now
10:49:04Jungti1234hmm
10:49:13Jungti1234So..
10:49:24hardeepboth of those refer to changes to the script used to create themes for each device
10:49:39hardeepnot any new features in the firmware
10:50:30Jungti1234Is it meaning that can set to each device and create theme?
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10:50:48amiconnhardeep: Do you know the bookmarking code?
10:50:59hardeepamiconn: somewhat
10:51:00thePianoManit means that one theme can be set for many devices with different displays
10:52:30*scorche finally finds a moment to go to bed
10:53:04amiconnhardeep: There are 2 bugs in the bookmarking code which most probably are related. (1) Bookmarking doesn't work when starting a playlist by choosing Playlist->Insert (or Insert Shuffled) on a folder. (2) Bookmarking also doesn't work with tagcache
10:53:29amiconnIt does work fine when starting a playlist by choosing a track from within a folder, or loading an .m3u
10:53:44hardeepamiconn: both are because bookmarking doesn't work with dynamically created playlists
10:54:09*JdGordon thinks the playlist code is overly complicated, prob coz /me doesnt undertsnad it :p
10:54:15 Part daurnimator
10:54:17hardeepwe need to change the bookmark format to include the .playlist_control file to handle them
10:54:28amiconnHmm, is that documented somewhere? I didn't find anyting in the maunal at least
10:54:33amiconn*manual
10:54:43hardeephmmm, dunno, let me check
10:55:41cehim sitting in at a place where I cant install acrobat, thus not being able to read the manual. can anyone tell me where i get the app to patch the hex file for the bootloader?
10:55:55JdGordonwhat target?
10:56:05JdGordonall install instructions are in the wiki..
10:56:15cehahh thanks :)'
10:56:35*midgey34 updated the wiki and goes to sleep
10:57:53hardeepamiconn: yeah, i don't see any references to it either... will update
10:58:32hardeepi'm going to look into adding support post-3.0
10:59:20Jungti1234thePianoMan
10:59:30JdGordonu can add cue support while your at it then :D coz they could be handled the same way
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10:59:50hardeepnah, cue support is different
10:59:57Jungti1234Is 1 theme included to build setting to device?
10:59:59JdGordony?
11:00
11:00:06Paul_The_NerdWhy are bookmarks associated with a playlist, rather than a specific file?
11:00:30thePianoManJungti1234: before, one theme was only for one device; now, one theme can be for many devices
11:00:41Jungti1234auto?
11:00:43hardeepJdGordon: bookmarking a dynamic playlist has no relation to cue support
11:00:48thePianoManJungti1234: there is a theme included with the download I think
11:00:50Jungti1234what's mean..
11:00:56Jungti1234oh
11:01:01Jungti1234um..
11:01:04thePianoManthe change is mainly for theme creators
11:01:13JdGordonhardeep: it does.. a bookmark is just a position in a audio file.. a cue is just a list of positions in a audio file.. same thing
11:01:32Jungti1234I mean..
11:01:44hardeepPaul_The_Nerd: no real reason... i'd actually like to see both options available
11:02:41Jungti1234A person who create theme makes correct WPS to devices that is many.
11:02:53amiconnCurrently, bookmarks resemble resume points. I actually like it that way
11:02:58hardeepJdGordon: sure, for loading an individual track. But I'm assuming you're referring to full cue support without our playlist framework
11:03:28Jungti1234To each build, is correct theme included to it?
11:03:29hardeepamiconn: yeah, i like bookmarking playlists... but being able to bookmark individual tracks would also be useful
11:03:42amiconnYeah, probably
11:03:43hardeepJdGordon: s/without/within
11:03:45thePianoManJungti1234: yes, the build has a theme
11:03:50thePianoManincluded
11:03:51JdGordonye, i was.. ok
11:03:54Jungti1234:D
11:03:59 Part midgey34
11:04:03Jungti1234Thanks thePianoMan
11:04:12thePianoManno problem
11:04:35*JdGordon has an idea for redone playlist code to support cue and bookmarks, but cant figure out how to unshuffle the list
11:04:50JdGordonbut everything else would work, so i dont know if i should start coding or not
11:05:45hardeepJdGordon: maybe document it first? the playlist code does a lot so it would be good to make sure you have everything covered
11:06:30cehwhen i look under downloads on the rockbox.org and under dailybuilds it seems to be the same zipfile rockbox-h300-20060617 that I download. Is it the same?
11:06:47JdGordonadd track to beinging, end, randomly. shuffle entire list, load from .m3u, save to .m3u and unshuffle. anything missing there?
11:07:32hardeepJdGordon: in terms of what the playlist code does?
11:07:37JdGordonye
11:08:01JdGordon..beraing in mind i would keep all the external functions the same so no other code should need major hacing
11:08:05JdGordonbearing*
11:08:29hardeepresume is a big one missing from your list
11:08:41hardeep(most of the complexity in the code revolves around that)
11:10:13JdGordonresume is just reload from the control file and get it back where it was, thats not all that comlicated is it?
11:11:56 Quit toxicaway ("Spirited Away.")
11:12:21hardeepmaking sure the control file contains everything needed to resume correctly is
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11:12:53shriphaniguys the apple theme took a hit
11:13:00hardeepi'm not saying it's difficult, you just need to consider it anytime you're changing the playlist code
11:13:06shriphanii cant see a single thing :(
11:13:15JdGordonok, but that can be taken care of..
11:13:21shriphaniwould that mean reinstalling rockbox ?
11:14:06hardeepJdGordon: of course =) that's why i'm saying you should document first... just to make sure some important things aren't missed
11:14:18JdGordonrighto :)
11:14:25shriphanihardeep you indian i guess
11:15:10hardeepdepends on your definition of indian =)
11:15:19shriphanibharatiya
11:15:28shriphanimere jaisa
11:15:44hardeepno, not from india
11:15:51shriphanioh ok'
11:15:54Jungti1234hey
11:15:58shriphanihelp me plz
11:16:08shriphanii got mahself the ipod theme
11:16:34Jungti1234How do I make WPS like this? http://www.rockbox-themes.org/data/320x240x16/Ipod_Ubuntu.png
11:16:46Jungti1234Background
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11:16:58shriphaniand when i changed theme from ipod ubuntu to the ipod theme it went and f'ed up
11:17:01shriphanii cant see anything to scroll in
11:17:27hardeepshriphani: sounds like a bad theme... you need to reset settings
11:17:38hardeepshriphani: see manual on how to do it for your device
11:17:44shriphanidid it a million times
11:18:02hardeepdid what? reset settings?
11:18:09pixelmathe ubuntu theme uses white font colour - the apple them has white background...
11:18:28shriphaniyes i reset settings
11:18:40hardeepand it didn't go back to default?
11:18:57shriphanino
11:19:11shriphanireboots into the same theme in which nothing appears
11:19:29hardeepare you sure you reset properly? i think you need to press the hold switch as you're booting or something
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11:19:51shriphanii use an ipod :)
11:19:56Paul_The_Nerdshriphani: You are talking about Rockbox themes, right?
11:20:00shriphaniyes
11:20:19shriphanioh i should set the ipod on hold when i boot ?
11:20:25Paul_The_NerdAnd you turned on your iPod, and immediately enabled hold, and left it on until it finished booting and said "Settings Cleared"
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11:20:55 Quit tongas ("Quitte")
11:20:59shriphanii didnt dot hat
11:21:02shriphanido that ^
11:21:10psycho_maniachello all
11:21:32shriphanilet me try that
11:21:55psycho_maniaci have a quick question about rockbox on the iopds
11:21:58psycho_maniacipods*
11:22:03hardeepwe should probably add some basic sanity checks when loading wps
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11:22:27Paul_The_Nerdhardeep: It's really the config loading that does it. The WPS can't set foreground and background colors, which is actually a bad thing.
11:23:33psycho_maniacim hopefully getting a ipod soon and i was fooling around on the ipod 5g simulator and noticed that for volume and setting changes up is down and down is up. is this the same on the actually player?
11:23:35hardeepPaul_The_Nerd: ah, right... either way, a check to make sure font color != bg color wouldn't hurt
11:24:12Paul_The_Nerdhardeep: Yeah, but it might ought to be a range, since black, and black+1 can look pretty similar. ;)
11:24:37hardeeptrue, a range check sounds reasonable too
11:24:39shriphaniworking thankS :)
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11:24:57Paul_The_Nerdpsycho_maniac: Clockwise moves down a list, and up volume. Anticlockwise moves up a list, and down volume.
11:25:46psycho_maniacoh i see how it seems opposite on the simulator
11:25:51Paul_The_Nerdhardeep: The *real* problem is that sometimes a theme might not set a background color, only a foreground color and a backdrop image. Which means while the foreground color conflicts with the background color, the image used makes it not matter.
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11:26:10Paul_The_Nerdpsycho_maniac: Yeah, it's hard to accurately simulate the wheel.
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11:27:17hardeepPaul_The_Nerd: ah, right. having a wps-specific fg/bg color sounds reasonable too
11:27:58psycho_maniacso when is rockbox 3.0 comming out?? haha just kidding
11:31:32linuxstbamiconn: How's your H300 battery test coming along?
11:32:25psycho_maniacbut anyways. thanks Paul_The_Nerd for the quick reply
11:32:25amiconn14.hours now and still running...
11:32:29 Part psycho_maniac
11:32:35amiconn14.5 hours even
11:33:08JdGordonwhat was it before the fix?
11:33:30linuxstbAnd what do you get with the same test on a h1x0?
11:35:56 Nick Lost-ash is now known as ashridah (i=ashridah@220-253-120-245.VIC.netspace.net.au)
11:36:45amiconn11 hours on H340 before the fix, and 19:48 on H140
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11:38:02amiconnMeanwhile I expect the H340 test to exceed 20 hours (based on the assumtion that the H300 battery has a slightly higher capacity)
11:38:12amiconn*assumption
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11:47:59Genre9mp3Goodmonrning all!
11:48:31markunmorning
11:48:55Genre9mp315 hours... and still playing! :)
11:49:11linuxstbThinking about the problem of loading a .cfg file that results in the bgcolor and fgcolor being the same - can anyone think of a better solution than just adding a check at the end of settings_load_config() (just before the call to settings_apply()) which restores the fg and bg colours to the defaults if they end up the same after loading a .cfg file?
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11:49:51toedhi, I was wondering if it was possible to use a larger sized font on rockbox
11:50:23linuxstbMENU -> General Settings -> Display -> Browse Fonts
11:50:38hardeeplinuxstb: nope, that sounds like the best place
11:50:45Genre9mp3linuxstb: The screen may became unreadable not only with "exactly" the same fg & bg colours...
11:51:01markuntoed: and if you don't see any fonts there you need to download them from the download page first
11:51:12Genre9mp3hello hardeep...I have some files for you
11:51:19toedalright I'll try, thanks
11:51:23Genre9mp3pixelma's updates
11:51:32hardeepGenre9mp3: sure
11:51:45linuxstbGenre9mp3: Yes - if someone can come up with a good "these two colours are indistinguishable" function, we can add it. But for now, a simple comparison is better than nothing.
11:51:53toedthere's no myriad font for rockbox is there? (the font the ipod uses)
11:52:35pixelmaGenre9mp3: :)
11:53:34amiconnlinuxstb: I wouldn't care too much about this problem, mostly because there's another situation that may cause unreadable text, but undetectable - using a text colour that matches a background picture
11:54:25Genre9mp3linuxstb: Wouldn't be a weird effect for the users to suddenly switch to the default colours?
11:54:57Genre9mp3maybe a better idea would be to revert to the previous colours
11:55:15Genre9mp3or maybe...even a warning message
11:55:27hardeepGenre9mp3: did you send them?
11:55:39hardeepGenre9mp3: you can mail me if you prefer
11:55:48Genre9mp3hardeep: where? did you get my PMs?
11:55:57hardeeper, no
11:56:23Genre9mp3hardeep: ok...your mail?
11:56:30amiconnGenre9mp3: Did you register with freenode?
11:56:42hardeeprockbox AT fastmail.fm
11:56:49Genre9mp3amiconn: [12:47] -NickServ- Password accepted - you are now recognized
11:57:06Genre9mp3hardeep: sending them know
11:57:20amiconnk
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12:00
12:01:22Genre9mp3hardeep: Check your mail
12:02:19hardeepgot it, thanks
12:03:04JdGordonhas anyone playued with x2x ?
12:03:35ashridahyeah. it's crappy. use synergy instead
12:03:57JdGordon.. ok
12:04:31JdGordondo i need to install it on both comps?
12:04:34ashridah(seriously. x2x requires dodgy X11 protocols that're evil. synergy does a better job, and works across any windowing system in any direction)
12:04:39 Quit stampfini (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
12:04:41ashridahyes, unfortunately.
12:05:05ashridahyou need the server on the machine with the keyboard and mouse, and the client on any other machine you're connecting
12:05:31JdGordonok, checking it out, ta
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12:10:38linuxstbGenre9mp3: Yes, switching to the default colours could be considered weird, but it's less weird than Rockbox's UI suddenly disappearing. IMO, a .cfg which doesn't set both fg and bg colours should be considered broken.
12:11:43linuxstb(or at least, you shouldn't give such a .cfg to other users)
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12:16:36Genre9mp3linuxstb: I think that there aren't any cfg files with same fg/bg colours out there
12:17:03Genre9mp3I think that the fix you are talking about will not help
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12:17:46Genre9mp3Cause the problem is not the fg/bg colours but the fg colours with a similar colour of a bacdrop loaded by another theme
12:17:56Genre9mp3backdrop
12:19:28Genre9mp3The reproduction of the bug can be done by: Using a black backdrop, then load a theme that specifies a black fg colour and doesn't specify a backdrop
12:19:51Genre9mp3the old backdrop will remain, while the fg colour will be black
12:19:59Genre9mp3That's what causing it
12:20:50pixelmaproblem is: when a new theme is loaded that does not set one of the both colours, rockbox uses the old one instead - as shriphani experienced with changing from ubuntu theme to apple theme and get white font on white background
12:21:05Genre9mp3So I think, we should somehow force the backdrop to get cleared if a theme doesn't specify one
12:22:06Genre9mp3pixelma: Yes, but I think most of the themes specify both colours....I think the backdrop situation is more common
12:22:56Mikachudo themes usually change both the wps bg and the menu bg bitmaps?
12:23:15Genre9mp3But then again, a theme is actually a .cfg...and I don't know if it's wise to clear the backdrop whenever you load a .cfg file
12:23:43pixelmamaybe, that's the worse situation anyways
12:23:54Genre9mp3Mikachu: A theme is actually a .cfg file...it can change everything! :)
12:24:03Mikachuhence the word "usually"
12:24:55Genre9mp3Mikachu: Well, there are many themes that use backdrops
12:24:56linuxstbBut there is no way to clear a backdrop - unless just having a line saying "backdrop: " (without a filename) will work.
12:25:03linuxstb(from a .cfg file)
12:25:30Mikachui was just thinking that if most themes are for the wps only, a simple fix would be to separate the wps fg/bg colors from the menu fg/bg colors
12:25:53Genre9mp3linuxstb: Does this "backdrop: " work now?
12:27:05linuxstbI don't know - I'm about to test.
12:27:42Genre9mp3Mikachu: Themes, now just set a bg/fg...which is universal, if you make it to change only the wps colours, then themes with backdrop may become a mess
12:27:51Genre9mp3...in the menus
12:28:02Mikachuokay, scratch that then
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12:34:17***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
12:36:06linuxstbNo, setting "backdrop: " in the .cfg doesn't seem to work. But I think it should - and Rockbox should write that line when creating a .cfg file as well.
12:37:29linuxstbUnless anyone else feels like doing, I'll try and do it tonight, but I have to go now.
12:38:22pixelmadidn't you want to work on the solitaire gfx for Archos as well? ;)
12:38:40Genre9mp3linuxstb: I think it's a good idea...can't think of a negative effect on that
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12:41:44webguest86hi, if my mp3 ID3 tags are messed up, will that affect playback, i.e tracks skipping, not loading and suchlike
12:42:20webguest86using file tree
12:42:28JdGordonashridah: does synergy just move the mouse across screens? or can u use it to setup the slave comp as an extension of the primary screen without installing a full setup on it?
12:42:50stripwaxwebguest86 - potentially - if the file is actually corrupted as a result.
12:43:13webguest86thanks
12:43:20stripwaxwebguest86 - depends what you mean by 'messed up' though .. ?
12:43:43webguest86non existant, or only in ape format
12:44:21stripwaxwebguest86 - non existant should be fine of course. I don't know about ape format though, I'm afraid. I think that should be fine too though
12:45:04ashridahit moves a mouse and keyboard input across screens, basically.
12:45:21linuxstbpixelma: Yes - solitaire is still on my to-do list...
12:45:38stripwaxquick question about "antialiased fonts" - since we can currently set a font color, and the font bitmaps are stored 1bpp, is it that all that's required is to store more than 1bpp for fonts and use that as opacity?
12:45:48ashridahyou need it running on both sides, however, it uses its own protocol
12:46:03Mikachustripwax: you would need to implement alphatransparent rendering too
12:46:04stripwaxe.g. 2bpp fonts would probably look pretty good
12:46:09Mikachui don't think it currently is
12:46:19pixelmalinuxstb: didn't want to get on your nerves, just reminding
12:46:24 Part webguest86
12:46:34linuxstbpixelma: no problem...
12:46:46stripwaxMikachu - well, not across the board, just for fonts (should be easy on colour targets, I'd have thought)
12:47:26Mikachui don't it matters much what you intend to draw
12:47:58Mikachuthink
12:48:05stripwaxHrm, do we use the same blt functions to render fonts as we do to render full colour bitmaps? (even though the font data is only stored 1bpp?)
12:48:26stripwaxI guess if we do, that makes it quite a bit trickier..
12:48:43Mikachuthere are some special monochrome functions i think
12:49:18JdGordonashridah: ah ok, not want i want then.. :(
12:49:19stripwaxMikachu - thx. so some simple mono-with-alpha function should be straightforward
12:49:30linuxstbThe general consensus seems to be that alpha-blended fonts would be too resource-intensive. But feel free to prove the opposite :) The font drawing is already too slow for large LCDs.
12:49:44ashridahJdGordon: well, that's pretty much the same thing x2x does
12:49:49ashridahwhat're you trying to do?
12:50:02stripwaxlinuxstb - thx. I might just have a play
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12:52:23Jungti1234hi markun
12:52:31markunhi
12:52:35Jungti1234busy?
12:52:42markunnot really
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12:52:53flithmhey everyone... I'm just going through the manual here, and right I'm at the enabling speech part. It says to unpack the voice file to /.rockbox/lang but that folder doesn't exist... there is a "langs" directory though... I assume this is it but just thought I should mention the ipod mini manual has an error
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12:53:54JdGordonashridah: sorry, got disconnected, im trying to get my 2 extra screens working in "xinerama" with my main desktop without installing a full setup on the 2nd box
12:54:26ashridahoh. i don't think there's actually any way to do that
12:54:52MikachuJdGordon: you mean you want to have screens of another computer as an extension to your main computer?
12:55:11Mikachuyou could use vnc for that
12:55:41ashridahMikachu: that doesn't actually get you xinerama either.
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12:55:50Mikachuno, you can't move windows between the screens
12:55:51JdGordonMikachu: ye
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12:56:08chendowhy not just take the graphics card from the 2nd box, put it in the main box, and then set it up normally?
12:56:30JdGordoni just realised its not really a problem, coz i connect to X remotly anyway, so i just connect again from the other comp and get synergy working
12:56:50pondlifeAnyone with Flyspray permissions around?
12:56:56*JdGordon thinks he's gonna need gigabit network for this
12:57:11pondlifeFS #5511 can be closed now as Hardeep's commited pretty much the same fix.
12:57:42peturdone
12:57:59hardeepooops, didn't realize there was already a patch for it
12:58:08peturhaha
12:59:16pondlifehardeep: no hard feelings, you've saved me having to repatch everytime I refresh my sim...;-)
12:59:29pondlifepetur: Thanks
13:00
13:00:45pondlifeNow we just need to fix bug #5486....
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13:01:13pondlifeWhy should auto-resume ON be so different from OFF but with an implied press of the play button?
13:01:43pondlifeI guess it's skipping some important initialisation at the moment.
13:01:46*petur starts recording duration test
13:01:54hardeepthat's actually what i was looking at... i know why it's happening, but am still trying to figure out the best fix
13:02:07hardeepit's because the "playing" status gets set right away
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13:02:28JdGordonamiconn: batt test still going?
13:02:43Genre9mp3petur: which target?
13:03:26pondlifehardeep: Did you see my notes on FlySpray. Under the sim I was repeatedly getting a division by zero because of the status being wrong. But this didn't appear to be the direct cause on the device.
13:03:27Genre9mp3JdGordon: 16 hours here and still strong! ;)
13:03:38JdGordon:)
13:04:17hardeeppondlife: yeah, the problem on the device is because of the "playing" status. i think there's an unnecessary check in the voice code that can be removed
13:04:21pondlifehardeep: I guess the status/timing being wrong would probably cause all kinds of chaos though.
13:04:24hardeepneed to confirm though
13:04:40peturGenre9mp3: h340
13:04:52pondlifeI just haven't had enough time to understand the playback code yet.
13:05:29Genre9mp3petur: latest build, right?
13:05:42peturGenre9mp3: worse ;)
13:05:58peturlatest build + unboosted recording patch
13:06:19flithmhey where do I put font files?
13:06:33Genre9mp3unboosted recording patch? Is it on FS?
13:06:39peturno
13:06:48peturit breaks spdif recording
13:07:02peturand I want to test more before bringing it out
13:07:11peturbbl
13:10:10pondlifehardeep: What would be very useful (if you have time) would be if you could add some more comments/notes to the code - IMHO outlines of each routine's responsibilities would be very useful.
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13:11:10pondlifeThat would hopefully make it easier for us wannabes to get into it, without being so unsure that we're not just hacking away (in the worst sense!)
13:12:34hardeepi only know small parts of it
13:12:46hardeeplostlogic/slasheri are the real playback experts
13:12:57pondlifeWell, every bit you can nail down would be an improvement.
13:13:32 Quit hannesd ("Client suicide")
13:14:08pondlifeI understand the structures and buffering ok, I think, but the actual interaction of threading and how statuses are used is a bit mysterious.
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13:21:35hardeepalright, that looks like it fixes it
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13:28:16pondlifehardeep: I'm ready to test....
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13:29:29hardeeppondlife: grab the latest cvs build
13:29:56pondlifeI have!
13:33:13pondlifeOK seems to have fixed that problem, but I just locked up my H300, probably by pressing stop during voice playback
13:33:44pondlifeDisk indicator is on, hard-lockup (not timing out backlight etc)
13:34:14 Quit JdGordon (Remote closed the connection)
13:34:18hardeepwhere do you press stop from?
13:34:47pondlifeI'm just trying to repro.
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13:35:45pondlifeJust press STOP twice during playback?
13:36:06pondlifeOne stops, the second crashes before voice output gets a chance to start
13:36:17pondlifeI have .talk enabled for both files + folders
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13:37:43hardeepi can reproduce it with navi->stop from wps with voice filename numbers
13:38:00pondlifeIt's quite easy to repro, but may be timing dependent.
13:38:21pondlifeI'll update my sim build...
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13:39:42hardeepbed time for me
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13:40:55Genre9mp3goodnight
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14:00
14:03:50 Quit pondlife ("byebye")
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14:11:47Genre9mp317hours here....still rocking! :)
14:12:09stripwaxGenre9mp3 - what's your test?
14:13:40Genre9mp3H340/latest build/MP3@128Kbps/-25dB/diskpoweroff:Yes
14:14:17JdGordondid u do that test prioer to the batt fix?
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14:16:58Genre9mp3JdGordon: After the bat. fix of course...
14:17:10Genre9mp3and it's not finished yet...
14:17:14JdGordondid u try it before hand to get a comparisson?
14:17:23stripwaxGenre9mp3 - stock battery? if so that's pretty awesome..
14:18:01Genre9mp3stripwax: Yes...4month old stock battery
14:18:24*amiconn expects Genre9mp3's test to exceed 21 hours
14:18:46Genre9mp3JdGordon: Yes...I got 10h01min in 1st of May (without the disk poweroff thing)
14:18:53JdGordoncongrats amiconn, now we can release 3.0 and get out fo the freeze :D
14:19:04JdGordon:D nice improvement there
14:19:27Genre9mp3amiconn: me too....and I'm pretty excited about that! :)
14:19:54amiconnI'm testing with 192kbps, so I expect a little less
14:20:29amiconnJdGordon: Unfortunately not, I'm afraid. It just means we don't need to exclude the H300 from 3.0
14:21:04JdGordonthe swcodec bugs still holding it back?
14:21:05amiconnThere's still a number of playback and voice issues
14:21:10JdGordon:)
14:21:29Genre9mp3hehe...trying to break XavierGr's 21 hours on his H140
14:21:55Genre9mp3But he is going to beat me with his 1900mAh battery on his H300
14:24:49amiconnHeh, that's cheating ;)
14:26:32chendoi'm testing mine now
14:26:36chendo2200mAh
14:27:19Genre9mp3chendo: It will take ages....
14:27:23chendoit's done 4 hours so far
14:27:30chendowith 819m left.
14:27:52chendoi'm doing oggs too btw
14:27:58chendo231kbit~
14:28:55 Quit Bagder (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
14:29:22JdGordonthe standrd h300 batt is 2200 or 1900?
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14:30:39Genre9mp3JdGordon: AFAIK it's 1300mAh
14:30:56 Part pixelma
14:31:03mirakis the patch of the ISP in last CVS ?
14:31:07JdGordonah ok
14:31:16amiconnSome say the stock H300 battery is 1400mAh
14:31:21markunmirak: yes
14:31:37Genre9mp3amiconn: I've heard of that, too
14:31:41mirakmarkun: hem I the daily build ?
14:31:51amiconnIt doesn't have the capacity written onto it, unfortunately
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14:31:56obomidk: I'm taking another look at the fixed point stuff
14:31:59Genre9mp3But the default value in Rockbox is 1300mAh, right?
14:32:36Genre9mp3The manual also doesn't say anything
14:32:46Genre9mp3iriver's manual
14:33:57*JdGordon is off, cyas
14:34:21***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
14:36:07*San is doing a battery bench test on his H300
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14:36:58Sandid anyone do a battery bench test yet?
14:37:18chendodoing it now...
14:37:22chendolike 20 hours left thoug.h
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14:37:23Genre9mp3hehe..It seems that everyone is battery-benching now!
14:37:36Genre9mp3It became a trend! :)
14:37:38chendooh it'll be so fun when i get my FM transmitter.
14:37:46chendoi'll play with people's minds in the park
14:38:08Genre9mp3petur also makes a recording battery bench!
14:40:04amiconnAn interesting side note: Since putting the USB OTG controller to sleep seems to almost double battery runtime, that means the chip draws more power (when active) than the CPU (on average)
14:40:33Genre9mp3yes..it hungries!
14:40:57amiconnWhy? Because the other half is split further - between CPU, RAM and harddisk
14:41:00chendomaybe it's trying to power a host device when there isn't any?
14:41:22stripwaxchendo - there should be no draw if that's true
14:41:25Genre9mp3amiconn: Good point
14:41:29 Quit ST ()
14:41:36chendostripwax, maybe it's somewhat screwed up ;x
14:41:37ashridahchendo: it'd have to be sinking the current when not supplying, more to the point
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14:41:55stripwaxashridah right
14:42:23thePianoManthe chip has a charge pump in it which isn't the most efficient of all devices
14:42:35amiconn...and other components. According to my chip temperature checks, the CPU needs most, followed by the RAM, and then the UDA
14:42:51amiconnCan't compare harddisk requirements this way though
14:43:11amiconnthePianoMan: Just switching off the charge pump doesn't make a big difference
14:43:15San[13:37] <chendo> like 20 hours left thoug <−−- You serious?
14:43:23Sananyone finish one yet?
14:43:24chendoSan, yeah...
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14:43:27thePianoManaccording to the datasheet the USBOTG chip uses in excess 33mA
14:43:37chendoit was 4 hours and it had 891 minutes left
14:43:41amiconnMore like 50mA...
14:43:43chendoso not 20 hours
14:43:45chendobut yeah ;p
14:44:01thePianoManit's a lot anyway
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14:44:43Genre9mp3As it seems now, H100 & H300 have similar runtimes. So one of this is happening: 1) Colour LCD doesn't make any difference 2) Colour LCD makes a difference but H300 has better power handling 3) H300 battery is 1400mAh after all
14:44:51 Quit midkay_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
14:45:04amiconnForget the remaining playtime - it's just an estimation based on some "representative" format+bitrate, and current consumption values which weren't properly calibrated for any newer device so far
14:46:19amiconnI'll use the results from my runtime tests (several targets, with & without disk poweroff, backlight etc) to better calibrate battery metering
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14:46:42amiconnThat's the main reason for doing these tests after all
14:46:58chendowell
14:46:59chendoweird
14:47:04chendomy gf's been playing her H320 all day
14:47:22Genre9mp3Would it be exaggerating to have different ETAs depending the codec and the bitrate?
14:47:27chendomusic for like 6 hours, then she's been playing puzzle bobble for like 5 hours and it's still not dead
14:47:56Genre9mp3Let people choose beside the battery, the file types they use
14:47:57stripwaxchendo - puzzle bobble doesn't require spinning up the disk iirc, so uses little power..
14:48:13chendoyeah i know... but still ;p
14:48:27amiconnGenre9mp3: 2 facts regarding the LCD will probably compensate each other wrt runtime: H1x0 has a monochrome lcd which means less data changing when drawing, and less data to move over to the lcd, but the lcd itself is updated all the time
14:48:29stripwaxchendo- and as Genre9mp3 says, the battery life on the H3xx is now like 20 hours..
14:48:40 Quit mirak (Remote closed the connection)
14:48:59amiconnOn H300, drawing means changing more data in the framebuffer, but the lcd itself is only updated when the backlight is on
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14:49:39amiconnWhen backlight is off, it's even put to sleep to save power.
14:49:45Genre9mp3oh...so in a battery bench the backlight is always off
14:49:49Genre9mp3I see
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14:50:44amiconnA monochrome lcd has very low power requirements. Colour lcds need more, even without the backlight, but still not exactly much
14:51:41Sanso, H300 battery is 20~ hours on 128k mp3?
14:51:54Genre9mp3San: will see soon...
14:51:55flithmhey everyone... when I turn voice menus on the voice is all crazy like SUPER fast (ipod 2g with english_MSMike_cvs.zip)... anyone know what's going on?
14:52:09Mikachuwould turning off the lcd completly on color screen ipods save significant power?
14:52:09San:D
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14:52:19obois int 32 bits on all targets?
14:52:21Sani am guessing so Mikachu
14:52:37Genre9mp3amiconn: What do you feel about codec-dependent Battery estimations?
14:53:27thePianoManmaybe the battery estimation could be just bitrate-dependent coz the bitrate determines the duty cycle of the HDD
14:53:43thePianoManand the HDD would use more power than the CPU, no?
14:54:31Mikachuthat would only be true for hdd based players
14:54:41thePianoManhmm true
14:55:01thePianoManI guess the flash mem access wouldn't be nearly as high a proportion as for a hdd access
14:55:05Genre9mp3thePianoMan: Also Ogg playback consume more power than mp3
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14:55:44Mikachualso not true on all players :)
14:55:54thePianoManGenre9mp3, wouldn't that be (at least in part) due to the larger files/higher bitrate of ogg? I'm not sure on this as I'm not 100% familiar with the ogg format
14:55:54amiconnMaking the battery estimation codec dependent doesn't make sense. How would the unit know what you're about to play in the future?
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14:56:28BossGhaving loads of fun trying to nurse this archos back to health
14:56:40Genre9mp3At least if someone uses a specific format he can set it
14:56:54Genre9mp3like he sets the battery capacity
14:56:57MikachuthePianoMan: ogg files would usually be smaller than mp3 for the same quality
14:57:23thePianoManahh ok, so more processing required to decode them. fair enough
14:57:33amiconnWhat would possibly make sense is extending the (already existing) battery runtime log into a system that monitors battery usage, and adapts the estimation based on past values
14:57:41amiconn(self-adjusting battery meter)
14:58:29Genre9mp3amiconn: That would be sweet!
14:58:31thePianoManI wonder how it's done in Linux etc?
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14:59:26MikachuthePianoMan: how what is?
14:59:31amiconnOgg is generally a bit more processor intensive than mp3, but otoh the ogg codec has optimisations for ARM CPUs, so on ipod, ogg is (currently) more efficient than mp3
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15:00
15:00:00chendohow ironic
15:00:25Genre9mp3chendo: hehe...I agree
15:00:30flithmI think doing a linux processer load approach would be good... keep average power consumption rates for last hour, 15 mins, 5 mins, 1 min, and then you can have a few different battery life estimations based on those numbers... I say leave the guess work to the humans
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15:02:02thePianoMando some kind of regression on historical data?
15:04:13flithmI don't think it would be too difficult
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15:07:24markunwhy do we need runtime estimation? Isn't the battery percentage enough?
15:07:47flithmheh
15:07:49flithmyeah totally
15:09:08 Part BossG
15:09:47Genre9mp3markun: Yes..you have some point there
15:10:49dionoeahello
15:10:57preglowsweet lord, this weather
15:11:18peturyes it's getting hot again :/
15:11:33preglowjust took a bike ride
15:11:37preglowi'm pretty much sweating away
15:11:38thePianoManbah I'm freezing, (in this part of the world anyway)
15:11:58 Quit damaki (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
15:12:29Genre9mp3petur: haha...Invitation to Athens is open just for you! :P
15:13:15thePianoManif you're looking for cooler weather, try Melbourne, Australia
15:13:39Genre9mp3It's only 30C here now
15:13:45preglowi'm perfectly cool with this weather, thank you
15:13:49preglowi've been waiting for it for ages
15:14:12mirakdoes the daily build of today have the ISP bug fixed ?
15:14:18preglowshould, yes
15:14:24mirakthanks
15:14:49dongsisp bug?
15:14:55preglowpower issue
15:15:04gpooisp
15:15:05gpoowtf
15:15:29thePianoManGenre9mp3: it hit a top of 12C here today, it's now about 6C
15:18:35Jungti1234bye all
15:18:40Jungti1234thanks all, today.
15:18:47 Quit Jungti1234 ()
15:20:40dionoeahas anyone started a "paint" plugin for rockbox ?
15:21:26stripwaxdianoea - yes.
15:21:51stripwaxdianoea - http://plugbox.rockbox-lounge.com/
15:21:53Genre9mp3amiconn: Thanx for the fix
15:22:00preglowGenre9mp3: benchmark done?
15:22:22Genre9mp3preglow: No...not yet...
15:22:23dionoeastripwax: hum, nice web site :)
15:22:40Genre9mp318+ hours till now
15:22:45preglowamiconn: i don't think the arm opts is what makes ogg faster tha mp3 on ipods, it's more probably the data cache
15:22:53preglowGenre9mp3: hah, excellent
15:22:59stripwaxdionoea - nothing to do with me ..
15:23:11preglowhmm, can anyone remember how much i got out of my h1x0 the last time i benched it?
15:23:12dionoeawell it's still nice :)
15:23:18preglowi think i got 20++
15:23:39stripwax;-)
15:23:44stripwaxoutties −− bbl
15:23:47 Part stripwax
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15:34:08XavierGrGenre9mp3: wow 18 hours and still going?
15:34:29preglowso, have we got iriver beat already?
15:34:34XavierGrof course
15:34:39XavierGr2 hours
15:34:39*preglow dispenses the confetti!
15:35:52Genre9mp3XavierGr: That's right...
15:36:07 Quit Rondom ("I'm leaving on a jetplane, don't know when I'll be back again...")
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15:42:52 Quit petur ("later")
15:42:52*XavierGr updates the feature comparison table
15:43:25XavierGrnow we can clearly declare that we kick iriver's ass on battery time on both targets!!
15:44:09XavierGris it better to move the battery feature on iriver specific features?
15:47:37chendocurrently i'm getting around 18 hours of estimated battery life with a 2200mAh battery
15:47:44chendobut i'm playing 230kbit oggs
15:48:07markunchendo: estimated?
15:48:21chendorunning time + estimated time left
15:49:30preglowXavierGr: at least for mp3, has anyone done any ogg tests?
15:49:46XavierGrchendo is doing
15:50:03XavierGrbut he uses a 2200mah battery.
15:50:26XavierGrchendo how's iriver performance on ogg with your battery?
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15:50:51XavierGrchendo: have you made a full benchmark with retail OS and ogg?
15:50:52Genre9mp3As I said...battery_benching seems to became a trend! Everyone does! :P
15:51:00chendoXavierGr, uh, no.. ;x
15:51:16chendoiriver firmware lacks a battery bench plugin, you see... ;p
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15:51:51preglowbut yeah
15:51:58XavierGrchendo: yes but you can still measure the runtime yourself.
15:52:01preglowan ogg benchmark would be very interesting
15:52:05saa[b_r]ider@amiconn: hi, are you around?
15:52:10preglowsome if someone wants to do some benchmarking, please do that
15:52:10chendoi'll be sleeping >_<
15:52:24chendoi'll see what i can do though.
15:52:33saa[b_r]ider@markun: Hola..
15:53:04chendoquick question
15:53:11chendohow hard is mp3 recording to implement?
15:53:33saa[b_r]ider@XavierGr: how's the H300 battery life with you up till now?
15:53:50ashridahdoes the rockbox mp3 encoder work at >100% realtime yet?
15:54:11ashridahchendo: it's probably not actually all that hard, it's just tedious and error prone getting the buffering right
15:55:24chendohmm
15:55:25XavierGrsaa[b_r]ider: 17 hours and still going (with an 1900mah battery)
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15:55:42saa[b_r]iderwoohoo! but that's not the stock battery is it?
15:55:49XavierGrsaa[b_r]ider: I have a feeling that I will suprass the 30 hours threshold...
15:55:58 Quit MarcoPolo (Remote closed the connection)
15:56:02preglowashridah: yes
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15:56:05saa[b_r]iderWOW!
15:56:11preglowashridah: for all bitrates
15:56:21Genre9mp3saa[b_r]ider: I'm at almost 19 hours currently with the stock battery...still running
15:56:27XavierGrOn a very old benchmark my H140 gave 25 hours but without the disk power off or the mp3 optimisations
15:56:36XavierGr(with the same 1900 mah battery)
15:56:55saa[b_r]iderGenre9mp3: Nice!!!
15:57:33saa[b_r]iderXavierGr: hmm.. so other than disk power off, what else do you have changed in the settings (which results in increasing battery life?)
15:58:27XavierGrnothing, but as I said the H140 (with 1900mah) was an old one.
15:58:53XavierGrso given the results of stock battery on H140 (21 hours with rockbox) an H340 with 1900 will go beyond 30 hours
15:58:56 Quit MarcoPolo (Remote closed the connection)
15:59:07XavierGrbut I am not sure about that, time will tell.
15:59:26XavierGrIt will be a very LONG battery_benchmark... :D
15:59:32saa[b_r]iderwonder how good battery life would be with the 2000+ mah batteries!
15:59:39XavierGrindeed
15:59:54saa[b_r]iderplease don't forget to post your results at MR ;)
16:00
16:00:01XavierGrthough many 2200mah batteries are cheap ones that can't manage to give more than 1900mah
16:00:13XavierGrsaa[b_r]ider:of course
16:00:38XavierGrIf the results are great I think I will pester Jeff for another front page news about Rockbox.
16:00:46saa[b_r]iderI'm still running on the stock 1300, but now I'm encouraged to upgrade!
16:00:49saa[b_r]ider(I
16:01:15saa[b_r]ider(I'm still waiting for this news to hit the top of MR's site ) :D
16:01:25Genre9mp3saa[b_r]ider: Why upgrade now? There's no need to...NOW
16:01:30Genre9mp3;)
16:01:39*saa[b_r]ider is greedy
16:01:44saa[b_r]ider:p
16:02:54saa[b_r]iderother than amiconn, who else helped with this magnificent update (not that other developments are any less magnificent ;) )
16:05:19preglowi believe amiconn did the bulk of the work
16:05:52dionoeaanyone here know if Eli Sherer is on this chan ?
16:06:05dionoea(person who coded xobox, rockpaint ...)
16:06:34saa[b_r]iderdionoea: in the past he logged-on as eli_sherer so it doesn't seem like he's here
16:06:46dionoeaok ... well i'll send him an email then
16:06:56preglowdionoea: if he is, he usually calls himself eli_sherer, i believe
16:07:00preglowyeah
16:08:36dionoeamaybe someone here knows if he's still working on rockpaint or not ?
16:08:42Mikachui think Paprica knows him
16:08:58saa[b_r]ideryup
16:09:12dionoeaPaprica: ?
16:09:36saa[b_r]iderthey use to work on plug-ins together, or at least host their plug-ins together
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16:54:51JdGordongo portugal :D
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16:55:50ashridah?
16:56:44JdGordon2:0 to iran
16:56:58JdGordonunless they scroed while i was driving home from the pub
16:59:29ashridahmmm pub
16:59:37ashridahwish my exams were over.
16:59:42ashridahdying to go to the croft and get wasted
17:00
17:00:20JdGordon:) how many u got left?
17:00:30ashridah1 left
17:00:38ashridahbitch too, since it's a new subject, no past exams to review
17:00:46JdGordondamn that sux
17:00:55Mikachuask them to make an example exam
17:01:03JdGordoni got 2 left this week.. then a week break with mates getign drunk :)
17:01:50 Quit mongey|zZz ("( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.03 :: www.XLhost.de )")
17:02:17ashridahMikachu: we did. it didn't work :)
17:06:26JdGordonhow do i rename all files in a folder form uppercase to lowercase?
17:06:41Mikachudo you use zsh?
17:06:50JdGordonbash
17:07:48Mikachuin zsh you can do for a (*) {mv $a ${(L)a}}
17:08:14Mikachuwhich doesn't help you
17:08:47Mikachui think you can do
17:09:10Mikachufor a in *;do mv $a "$(echo a|tr A-Z a-z)"; done
17:09:34Mikachuer
17:09:35Mikachuecho $a
17:09:41Mikachuor you'll lose all files :P
17:10:08Mikachuyeah, with $a it seems to work
17:10:20Mikachuno warranty though
17:11:00Mikachui guess you could use the "tolower" command if you have that too :P
17:11:28JdGordoni did it without sudo so it wouldnt actually do it.. but... "mv: cannot move `TEMPEST.ZIP' to `a': Permission denied" they all say to 'a' ?
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17:11:44Mikachuyou could try reading what i wrote too, not just copy the command
17:12:01 Part XavierGr
17:12:08JdGordonnot at 1am.... :p
17:13:00JdGordonmissed a $
17:13:26idnarthere's a utility called "rename" or "prename" that comes with perl
17:15:25idnarbasically lets you use any perl expression to manipulate filenames
17:15:44idnarin this case, you could do: rename 'tr[A-Z][a-z]' path/to/files/*
17:16:34JdGordonthanx, Mikachu's command worked
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18:00
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18:18:00Jon_hello
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18:23:52Genre9mp3Well well well...I have some final results here... :)
18:24:14*XavierGr drools
18:25:52*petur is recording 5+ hours and still not halfway :)
18:26:15XavierGrjust great! :)
18:26:20chendoETA 18 hours with 230kbit OGGs
18:26:24chendoon 2200mAh
18:27:04Genre9mp3Ok....here's my time:
18:27:06markunchendo: which q setting is 230?
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18:27:13chendonfi...
18:27:17Genre9mp320:30:18 !!!!!!!
18:27:18chendogot this off a friend
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18:27:43XavierGrWOW
18:27:55markunchendo: you have more than 32MB in the playlist, right?
18:28:11*XavierGr throws confetti all over the place and dances the awesome-battery-time dance!!! :D
18:28:22Genre9mp3XavierGr: hehe
18:28:28chendomarkun, of course
18:28:49chendoit's a whole album
18:29:02chendo81mb
18:29:48Genre9mp3Now...I wouldn't like to be an iriver employee ;)
18:30:19dionoeahow long do the batteries last with normal firmware ?
18:30:21Genre9mp3Rockbox beats iriver firmware by 4,5 hours! Awesome!
18:30:32Genre9mp3dionoea: 16 hours
18:32:10XavierGrthese are magnificent news
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18:34:26***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
18:36:12Genre9mp3http://www.misticriver.net/showpost.php?p=461652&postcount=34
18:36:15Genre9mp3:)
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18:39:33Genre9mp3It's time to rest my precious.... :D
18:39:48tiennouso how long did you get?
18:40:02Genre9mp320:30:18
18:40:08tiennouawesome!!!
18:40:15Genre9mp3indeed...
18:40:53tiennouwith a 4 month old battery.... thanks to amiconn and all the other who worked on this problem...
18:41:33Genre9mp3tiennou: Yes..4month stock battery
18:41:38tiennouDo you thin it was only a h300 target bug or maybe all the other hdd target have that chip (talkinh about ipod 5g)
18:41:53dionoeait was h300 only i think (the usb chip)
18:42:44tiennouhope progress will be made too for the ipod 5g since i just said goodbye to my rockboxed h340 ... :(
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18:43:00dionoeayeah, i hope it too
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18:54:46XavierGrGenre9mp3: you should check your battery settings
18:54:49*dionoea makes rockpaint usable
18:54:57XavierGrthe log says 2600mah battery time.
18:55:22XavierGrbut you got a 1300mah one. (not that it matters on the benchmark)
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18:57:18Genre9mp3XavierGr: Hmmm...weird
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18:57:35Genre9mp3I don't remember changing that
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19:00
19:01:26*Genre9mp3 wonders why it was set exactly twice from the default setting
19:03:57Papricadionoea, what are you doing?
19:04:19dionoeaPaprica: ah ! do you know if Eli is still working on rockpaint ?
19:04:27 Quit heff ("Client Exiting")
19:04:37Papricano, he is in the army
19:04:44dionoeaoh :-(
19:04:46Papricahe dont have any time to work on it
19:04:50 Quit Siku ()
19:04:56Papricayeah//
19:05:06dionoeaok, so i took the last source code available on your website (rockpaint.c,v 0.45 2005/12/09)
19:05:20dionoeaand i cleaned some of the code up and started adding new features
19:05:25Papricaand what you will do?
19:05:28dionoeacolor chooser
19:05:33dionoeadrawing simple shaped
19:05:35dionoeashpes
19:05:37dionoeacrap
19:05:38dionoeashapes
19:05:50dionoeaand then stuff like gradients
19:05:54dionoeafilling shapes
19:05:54 Quit XavierGr ()
19:05:59dionoeamaybe writing text
19:06:15Papricai think that your first stap need to be
19:06:17Papricasaving
19:06:24Papricaand opening bitmaps
19:06:36dionoeayeah, that also needs to be done :)
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19:06:43dionoeaopening stuff looks like its almost done
19:06:47dionoeai don't know about saving
19:06:55Papricanew featurs wont make it usable
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19:07:07dionoea?
19:07:16Papricai mean
19:07:30Papricathat new featurs without saving
19:07:36dionoeaoh yeah, you're right :)
19:07:47Paprica:)
19:09:17dionoea2 years in the army ... that doesn't sound too good to me
19:09:41Mikachumandatory?
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19:09:58dionoeain israel i guess that it is :) (Eli is from israel right ?)
19:10:16dionoea(according to his email address :p)
19:10:17Mikachuin sweden, i think it's 9 months, and only a third have to do it
19:10:26Mikachui am not in that third
19:10:36dionoeain france they abolished it 2 or 3 years before my turn came :)
19:10:51XavierGrI wonder if Slasheri finally finished his army obligations!
19:10:52dionoeaMikachu: how do they choose the third ? random ? money ?
19:10:59Mikachutests
19:11:14dionoeaso like dumb people go to the army ?
19:11:19dionoeaerr ... sorry
19:11:20Mikachuheh
19:11:27Mikachuphysical and psycological tests
19:11:48earHertzhow do I access values in global seetings?
19:11:59Mikachui guess they place you differently depending on your scores
19:12:01*Genre9mp3 remembers himself that army awaits soon
19:12:18Mikachui didn't have to do it because i'd already started university at the time
19:12:21saa[b_r]iderXavierGr: are you using any of the settings mentioned here? http://www.misticriver.net/showpost.php?p=382439&postcount=8
19:13:20XavierGrsaa[b_r]ider: except the dircache no.
19:13:55saa[b_r]iderso you have dircache on, and disk power off on as well
19:14:08XavierGrso yes my battery time can be increased further with some tweaking. Though it will be negligible.
19:15:09*Genre9mp3 thinks that XavierGr goes for a WORLD RECORD
19:15:28XavierGrhehe
19:15:46saa[b_r]iderXavierGr: how slow is the H300's response with disk power off when you try to browse files?
19:15:59hardeepdirectory cache will probably have a negative affect on battery life if you're not doing any directory browsing after you begin playback
19:16:13XavierGrhardeep: yes
19:16:45XavierGrsaa[b_r]ider: It can delay a little more but I can't notice a big difference
19:16:46 Quit _Veseliq_ (Remote closed the connection)
19:16:48Papricadionoea, 3 years in the army in israel
19:16:53XavierGrsaa[b_r]ider: but that's why we have dircache.
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19:17:06dionoeawow ... that's more than i though ...
19:17:51Paprica:)
19:18:37saa[b_r]iderXavierGr: ok, I'll try to test with directory caceh on, and disk power off on... but I'll test with 0db (the volume I listen to :p) and the headphones connected (I read it makes a difference)
19:18:50MikachuPaprica: have you done it already?
19:19:10saa[b_r]iderlet's see if I can replicate anything close to 20 hours on the stock battery
19:19:16Papricano, i will do it
19:19:22*dionoea would flee
19:19:25Mikachuah
19:19:26Mikachuheh, me too
19:19:33Papricai have 2 yeaqrs of freedom :P
19:21:49XavierGrsaa[b_r]ider: yes it will make a difference but it will be small.
19:21:56XavierGr(for the volume)
19:22:57XavierGrGenre9mp3: BTW I already have the reported world record on H140 in the wiki! :p (although someone can break it easily with another battery)
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19:24:02Genre9mp3XavierGr: Your H300 will be disqualified though... :-P
19:24:25saab_riderd/c
19:24:28dionoeaPaprica: is it 3 years non stop ? or do you have holidays from time to time ?
19:24:29Genre9mp3Your battery is on steroids! :)
19:24:48Papricawe have holidays///
19:24:48Paprica..
19:24:52dionoealots ?
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19:25:11Papricammm enough
19:25:12Papricai think
19:25:21dionoeaheehe :)
19:25:29saab_riderXavierGr: sorry, do you have disk spin down set to 5s?
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19:26:19XavierGrGenre9mp3: LOL
19:26:31XavierGrsaa[b_r]ider: yes I got it to default 5s
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19:32:15XavierGrI just submitted a news report on MR about the latest news on battery times for both H300 and H100 lets see if they are going to put it in the front page.
19:33:01saab_riderrefreshing MR
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19:33:22saab_riderXavierGr did you PM jeff?
19:33:43XavierGrsaab_rider: no, should I?
19:34:11saab_riderit would bring the H300 RB power fix to his attention, then it could be added to the front page
19:34:38XavierGrok I will let him know
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19:53:17dionoeayeah ! i have lines, rectangles and custom color choice working in rockpaint :)
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19:53:58Papricacustom colors is done by eli
19:53:59Papricaisnt it?
19:54:09dionoeaerr ... not in the version available on the website
19:54:17dionoeahe had 18 preset colors
19:56:05dionoeanow lets do ovals
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19:59:12juxtaphow do i charge my ipod without rockbox rebooting over and over again?
19:59:33juxtap(plugged directly into plug port with usb adapter)
20:00
20:00:37obohold down the menu button in rockbox when plugging the cable in
20:00:44juxtaptried that
20:00:53juxtapall that does is load apple os
20:01:11juxtapi wanna be playing moosic with rockbox while it's charging :p
20:04:16 Quit Poka64 ("brb")
20:04:38obono, hold menu while rockbox is running, not at boot
20:05:01obothen plug the usb in
20:07:40Amienis there anyway to start in /MP3/ .. instead of root
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20:19:49Sanwould anyone be interested in doing a quick interview for my website?
20:20:24saa[b_r]iderXavierGr: did you use the RB benchmark to time the battery life? or did you just play and take a note of when you started and when it died?
20:20:50saa[b_r]iderSan: hi San, interview as in have a look and tell you what we think?
20:21:22Sanno
20:21:33Sani just ask you questions and then you answer them
20:21:47Santhen I will post it on the website for people to read and comment on
20:21:50 Quit [TCK] (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
20:21:51saa[b_r]iderhmm.. how many questions :D
20:21:58Sanerrm, say.... 10
20:22:10saa[b_r]iderwhat the heck, sure :)
20:22:21Paul_The_Nerdsan: What website, and what sort of person are you looking to interview? Developer, fan, user?
20:23:25Sana dev
20:23:31Sanmy site: diabolikal.org
20:23:51 Nick jd_miam is now known as jd_ (n=jd@wikipedia/Meanos)
20:23:52Sanit was just an idea..
20:24:07saa[b_r]iderSan: oh.. I'm not a dev :|
20:24:17Sanok.. :(
20:24:39SanPaul_The_Nerd: are you a dev?
20:25:18Paul_The_NerdI wouldn't say so, no.
20:25:30Sanoh, ok then..
20:25:45Paul_The_NerdPeople frequently mistake me for one. It's kinda funny.
20:25:49Sanlol
20:25:50preglowhaha
20:25:54Sani tought you were one
20:26:17Sanwell, if anyone would like to then.. just tell me here or on MR
20:26:18San:D
20:26:26Sanit would just take about 10 mins
20:26:32XavierGrsaa[b_r]ider: the battery benchmark of course
20:26:54preglowanyone know what the benchmark ended up on?
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20:27:39XavierGrpreglow: Which benchmark?
20:27:47XavierGrGenre9's?
20:28:38preglowyea
20:28:40pregloware there any more?
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20:28:54Paul_The_Nerdpreglow: Amiconn was running one, right?
20:28:57saa[b_r]iderXavierGr: please forgive my ignorance, can you point me to a guide on how to use it, or is it really very simple?
20:29:33XavierGrsaa[b_r]ider: just select the battery_bench.rock and hit play.
20:29:44XavierGrthen you can continue with normal usage of your player.
20:29:47preglowPaul_The_Nerd: dunno, that's why i ask
20:29:56Paul_The_Nerdpreglow: I see a 13h46m and a 20h30m runtime on the page, both supposedly from Standard batteries.
20:30:01XavierGrhttp://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/PluginBatteryBenchmark
20:30:18Paul_The_Nerdpreglow: The 13h was 192kbps, no disk poweroff, the 20h was 128kbps, poweroff enabled.
20:30:19saa[b_r]iderXavierGr: play or navi?
20:30:47preglowPaul_The_Nerd: i've got a feeling disk poweroff is very effective
20:30:53 Quit Poka64 ("brb")
20:30:58XavierGrpreglow: Genre9mp3 just reported 20 hours and 38 minutes with his h300 on default battery and 128kbps mp3s
20:31:11XavierGrsaa[b_r]ider: play
20:31:16preglowso h1x0 still has better performance, then
20:31:25preglowto be expected, i guess
20:32:08Paul_The_NerdBut it's much closer, and the "Rockbox destroys your batteries" folks should be quelled for the time being.
20:32:13XavierGrpreglow : just a tiny bit...
20:32:22XavierGr20 minutes so no one is sure.
20:32:31XavierGrfor me it is virtually the same
20:32:36preglowi got 20:15 out of an old battery on hi bps mp3s
20:32:47XavierGrnice!
20:34:30***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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20:35:54Amienis there anyway to start in /MP3/ .. instead of root
20:36:00Paul_The_NerdAll I know is that my h120 lasts me a full "day" of use (day being defined as longest time between accesses to the charger) and that's good enough. :)
20:36:02saa[b_r]idergod, waiting for the battery to fully charge the last bit takes AGES!
20:36:34 Quit akaidiot (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
20:37:07saa[b_r]iderit was fully charged, then I connected the player to update the build, and make sure all the settings are ready for my battery test....
20:37:19saa[b_r]iderand got carried away listening to a few tracks :D
20:37:43saa[b_r]iderbut it couldn't have been more than 10 minutes of use, and it's been a while re-charging
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20:53:24glen_quagmireso Ifi want to buy an mp3 player. do I buy something suported?
20:54:23Sanif you want rockbox, then yes
20:54:27San*giggidy*
20:54:31glen_quagmireSan: is rockbox good?
20:54:36glen_quagmireit's my first mp3 player
20:54:53Paul_The_NerdWell whether you want Rockbox depends on if you want Rockbox's features.
20:55:23Paul_The_NerdBut most of us prefer it by a long shot over the built-in firmware on our players
20:55:24Sanwhat do you look for in an MP3 player glen?
20:55:43*Paul_The_Nerd recommends reading this page too http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/WhyRockbox
20:55:51*San too
20:56:17glen_quagmireSan: mp3 wma player
20:56:25 Quit mirak (Remote closed the connection)
20:57:27Paul_The_NerdRockbox doesn't support WMA yet
20:57:39glen_quagmireoh i see
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21:00
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21:01:28preglowwhich reminds me
21:01:33preglowi wish marsdaddy would surface soon
21:01:49XavierGrindeed
21:01:52XavierGrwhere is he lost
21:02:10XavierGrI hate it when they leave and don't submit a patch :P
21:02:39Amienif i would buy a ipod cradle with remote .. could rockbox work with that?
21:03:17 Quit saa[b_r]ider (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:03:34preglowhe has submitted a patch
21:03:38preglowbut it's old
21:03:46preglowi wish he'd just resurface so we can commit his work
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21:08:35earHertzwhat header do I include to have access to the prefs/global settings?
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21:11:39juxtapoh, ta obo
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21:20:10Paul_The_NerdOh man, this ( http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=4880.msg37013;topicseen#msg37013 ) is basically the standard Spam message our forums have been getting lately. But, they forgot the links.
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21:27:56midkayhahaha.
21:28:19Xerionlol
21:29:41Paul_The_NerdUsually there are three or four links to various sites selling stuff, etc.
21:30:16Paul_The_NerdHis account even has the necessary mail.ru email address, but apparently either the script screwed up, or their cheap hired labour just merely forgot.
21:30:34dionoeado you get spam with links hidden in smileys or punctation signs too ?
21:30:41dionoeathese are kind of tricky to spot
21:30:45Paul_The_NerdHaven't yet.
21:30:55dionoeawe have them all the time on the videolan forums
21:31:12dionoeaso you have to look at the message's source to check ... kind of horrible
21:31:15Paul_The_NerdWe've *just* started getting spam as far as I know.
21:31:27Paul_The_NerdOn to forums, that is.
21:31:40Paul_The_NerdThe wiki has been getting hit now and then for a while
21:32:18*dionoea wishes that good spam filters existed
21:32:46*Paul_The_Nerd wishes that spam simply didn't earn money, so they'd stop doing it.
21:32:53dionoeahehe :)
21:33:34dionoeadoes rockbox have float support ? (and stuff like sqrt() ?)
21:33:51Paul_The_NerdSeriously, I want to find the 5 people that have to click spam links anywhere on Earth and actually make the practice profitable, and explain to them that 6billion people would like them to stop buying those pills their email keeps recommending.
21:34:01dionoea:)
21:34:02Paul_The_NerdRockbox is fixed point.
21:34:26preglowyes, yes it is
21:34:40obodionoea: I've just found and used a fixed-point sqrt
21:34:55preglowit has floating point support, as in it can support floating point operations, but it will be VERY slow since it's emulated
21:35:01preglowalso, we have no libm
21:35:11dionoeaobo: well it's just to draw an oval :) so i guess that i'll do some ugly stuff :)
21:35:13preglowthere already is a fixed point sqrt in rockbox
21:35:19preglowin eq.c
21:35:20dionoeaoh, where ?
21:35:22obodoh!
21:35:23dionoeathanks
21:35:34obopreglow: don't suppose you know of a log10 then?? ;)
21:35:43preglowthere is a log10 in rockbox as well
21:35:45preglowin replaygain.c
21:35:58preglowi'm planning to make a fixed point math library some time
21:36:16obothat would be good :D
21:36:17dionoeayou even have sin and cos ! great :)
21:36:27preglowbtw
21:36:28preglowi suck
21:36:30preglowwe have no log10
21:36:30Paul_The_Nerddionoea: Does the oval need to actually be drawn?
21:36:32preglowonly exp10
21:36:37oboah, okay
21:36:43dionoeaPaul_The_Nerd: it's for rockpaint ... so ... yeah :p
21:36:48Paul_The_NerdAaah
21:36:48preglowdionoea: yeah, really good sin/cos to boot
21:37:01Paul_The_NerdBah, with screens that small, people can hand-plot their curves.
21:37:19oboI've found a natural log, but to convert to log10 I need to do ln(x)/ln(10), and under fixed point it's throwing away too much precision :(
21:37:36obobut then again, I could easily be doing something stupid
21:37:40preglowdividing by ten is throwing awao too much precision????
21:37:46dionoeacan't you just count the number of digits and then do some simple stuff ?
21:37:51preglowwhat the hell are you making, a fractal zoomer?
21:38:02obohehe, no, vu_meter...
21:38:14preglowyou don't need that precision for a vu meter
21:38:17oboshifting to 16.16
21:38:18preglowi can pretty much guarantee you that
21:39:29oboyeah, output wise I only need ints, but somehow I'm killing it before that... anyway, bbiab
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21:49:25dionoeapreglow: would it be ok if i added fsqrt and fsincos to the plugin api ?
21:52:32XavierGrhmm my benchmark seems not to go too well...
21:52:50XavierGrif a stock battery managed 20 hours I should get at least 29-30
21:53:08XavierGrbut the player now has 20% battery and 2-3 hours left
21:53:13Paul_The_NerdDUDE
21:53:18XavierGrthat makes it 27 hours
21:53:26Paul_The_Nerd"Recover Mode" on the e200 gives you direct USB access to something that's 16mb in size...
21:53:36XavierGrwe will see I don't rememver exactly when I started the benchmark
21:54:03preglowdionoea: no
21:54:10preglowdionoea: i'd rather we put those in a separate lib
21:54:14preglowbut i'll have to ask the other devs first
21:54:21dionoeaok, i'll let you do that then :)
21:54:25Paul_The_NerdIt's a 16mb FAT formatted partition, with just "Version.txt" in it...
21:54:54preglowamiconn: any input on whether fixed point math functions should be put in its own lib, or shared via plugin api?
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22:00
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22:03:38dionoeayeah ! ellipse is working :)
22:05:34XavierGrwow why is eclipse so big?
22:05:53XavierGrhaha
22:05:59dionoeadon't know (/me was talking about an ellipse ...)
22:06:11dionoeayou should use vim instead of eclipse :)
22:07:00XavierGrthat's why I was laughing. I know nothing about IDEs and you said ellipse and I though that you managed to make ecclipse work with rockbox (or something like that). Then I went to the site to see what I am missing
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22:07:49dionoea:)
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22:16:08Amienanyone using jBlackGlass Themes here? i installed it .. but the first row of the menu is in the top of the screen
22:17:11tucozThe statusbar?
22:17:23tucozbattery, volume etc?
22:17:41Amienno .. 'recent bookmarks' is on the same row as 'menu/file browser'
22:17:46Amienthe playing screen is perfect
22:19:07tucozOk, then I don't know what is wrong
22:19:15 Quit tvelocity ("Ex-Chat")
22:19:26Amienhttp://solutions-i.org/julius/images/jbg11b.bmp
22:19:30Paul_The_NerdProbably a side-effect of one of the patches.
22:19:46Amienmy battery logo and timelogo seems to be smaller
22:20:01Paul_The_NerdIt sounds like the status bar height patch he uses isn't working right.
22:20:07Paul_The_NerdYou should really ask in the thread for that build
22:20:24Amienk
22:20:41tucozThat theme is really pretty
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22:34:33***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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22:37:42*Paul_The_Nerd notices there is no Bagder variant in the room.
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22:48:57XavierGrah nice battery news hit the front page in MR
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22:57:20Amiena scroll-sound like ipod is not in RB right?
22:57:50Paul_The_NerdThere's a patch for it, I believe
22:58:55toedwhat's MR?
22:59:16Paul_The_NerdMisticRiver
22:59:16peturMisticRiver
22:59:19Paul_The_NerdAnd iRiver Fan site
22:59:27toedah
22:59:29petur:)
23:00
23:00:53dionoeacrap, my ipod froze
23:01:18dionoeais there a special combo key to kill a plugin ?
23:03:20Paul_The_NerdNot really
23:03:25Paul_The_NerdIf Menu or Menu+Select doesn't do anything.
23:03:32Paul_The_NerdThen holding Menu+Select until you reboot will do it.
23:03:49dionoeayeah, i know :) i was just hoping that some nicer solution existed
23:05:00Paul_The_NerdNot really, no.
23:05:38*amiconn appears
23:06:14*Paul_The_Nerd cheers
23:06:18amiconnResult from my H300 runtime test (192kbps mp3, disk poweroff enabled, no backlight, 0dB line out): 20h 26min (!!)
23:08:57preglowamiconn: saw my question?
23:09:33*amiconn scrolls back
23:09:42preglowan hour ago or so
23:09:54preglowhaha
23:10:06preglowit doesn't look like bitrate has much to say at all on battery time when playing mp3s
23:11:02amiconnHmm, I don't really understand... do you want to put some fixed point fns in the core?
23:11:38preglow_i_ want them in a separate library that can be linked to whatever needs it
23:12:02preglowwe already have fixed point fns in the core, they're just not exported to plugins
23:12:45amiconnWell, so far there's a clear approach. If we need a certain function in the core, we put it there, and if plugins/codecs should also be able to use it, we put it into the api
23:13:18amiconnBut if there are functions which are not needed in the core, we put it into a library and link it against plugins/codecs
23:13:36amiconns/put it/put them/
23:13:53preglowthey're needed here and there in the core, but already someone's requested a fixed point fn that's not needed by the core
23:14:00preglowi can very well see it being useful, though
23:14:43preglowif it's not needed in the core, it should be added to the plugin source, but i'd like it if all fixed point stuff was put in one place, which then again pretty much means a library is needed
23:15:38amiconnThing is, if we put all functions into the core, we bloat the core, and if we put all functions in libraries, we bloat the codec+plugins
23:15:55preglowsure
23:15:58preglowthere's a tradeoff
23:16:37Paul_The_NerdIsn't it better to bloat the plugins?
23:16:51preglowi'd say so
23:17:48amiconnI'd say neither the core nor the plugins should be bloated unnecessarily
23:18:05amiconnWhat's wrong with the current approach?
23:18:30preglowthat fixed point code is thrown all over the place
23:19:09preglowanyway, all fixed point code in rockbox should be put in a single file anyway
23:19:18amiconn'all over the place'? Just 2 different places...
23:19:23preglowright now we have some in eq.c, some in dsp.c, some in replaygain.c
23:19:30preglowplug whatever is used in some plugins
23:20:31preglowis that general enough to be put in firmware/ or what?
23:24:39XavierGr24.30 hours for me so far and kepp playing (1900mah)
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23:25:53amiconnXavierGr: Expect something around 27:30
23:26:18XavierGryeah that is what I think too.
23:26:43XavierGrthough the ETA is so off, that I was scared for a moment
23:27:28XavierGrit said 3 hours to shut down and it is playing for more than 5 hours. We should definitely calibrate it with all those benchmarks
23:28:07amiconnGuess why I'm doing these?
23:28:14preglowwe need more than mp3 benchmarks first
23:28:20amiconnCollecting data for runtime calibration
23:28:22preglowwe can't use mp3 benchmarks for avg batt runetime
23:28:27preglowruntime too
23:28:43preglowan average of mp3, ogg and flac would be nice
23:28:43amiconn..varying parameters
23:29:25amiconnI disagree somewhat
23:29:35preglowwhy?
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23:30:04amiconn(1) mp3 is the most widespread format. It's also supported on all targets
23:30:08XavierGramiconn: yes I know :p
23:30:19preglowamiconn: moot point, the runtime estimation won't be cross target
23:30:20amiconn(2) It's a clearly defined base for runtime measurement
23:30:24preglowit has to be done per target
23:30:50preglowin what way is mp3 a better base than ogg? the last point just sounds the like first point again
23:31:10preglowyes, mp3 is the most widespread, but for those who don't use it, the runtime estimation will be waaay off
23:31:32amiconn(2) would allow using any format, as long as it's the same for all measurements, with an average and widespread bitrate
23:31:48Paul_The_NerdYou should do MP3 and WAV, and use them as a range. WAV would be the lowest runtime, right? Most disk spinups?
23:31:57preglowyea
23:32:11amiconnThe runtime estimation won't be way off. It would be off by a factor not deviating much from 1
23:32:30preglowi'd like to see a benchmark before i'll guess too much about that
23:32:36amiconnFurthermore, runtime depends a lot on actual usage, most probably more than on different formats
23:32:41preglowi really have no idea how the other codecs perform right now
23:33:23preglowsure, indeed
23:33:34Paul_The_NerdThough I think having an estimated "minimum playback time left" (assuming the user doesn't fiddle with the controls) is better than an estimation that's average or maximum.
23:33:38preglowbut i still say basing runtime estimation on mp3 only is a bit weird
23:34:27preglowPaul_The_Nerd: then we'd have to base runtime estimation on our worst performing codec, assuming backlgiht gets switched on all the time and tracks changed a lot
23:34:32preglownot an easy benchmark to do
23:34:51amiconnPaul_The_Nerd: That would make the user think of it as some kind of guaranteed runtime, which it isn't and will never be.
23:34:59amiconnIt's simply impossible
23:35:07Paul_The_NerdTrue
23:35:35preglowyour proposition to use mp3 benchmarks as time estimation isn't much better
23:35:38Paul_The_NerdI was thinking more simply use the worst-performing codec, rather than one of the best.
23:35:40amiconnWhat if the user keeps the disk spinning all the time? What if he's operating the device at -20 캜 ?
23:35:46preglowit'll overshoot so much as to be almost unusable
23:36:11Paul_The_NerdNot as a guaranteed minimum, but as a "Assuming you just leave it playing right now, you should *probably* get at least this much time left"
23:36:15 Join heff_ [0] (n=felix@84.44.244.148)
23:37:11amiconnpreglow: I doubt that it will overshoot much. Perhaps up to a factor of 2, but even that is unlikely
23:38:08amiconnAnd using 192kbps mp3 does certainly not yield the maximum runtime
23:38:11dionoeadoes rockbox alread have a write_bmp_file (or equivalent) function ?
23:38:22amiconnThere are user with audiobooks and the like at 32kbps...
23:38:28amiconn*users
23:38:31Paul_The_NerdOoh, ooh, that's me!
23:38:33tucozdionoea, the screen dump perhaps?
23:38:41Paul_The_NerdMono, 32kbps, 22khz if I recall.
23:38:45dionoeatucoz: hum ... right. thanks :)
23:39:37preglowamiconn: would be fun to see a benchmark at 32kbps, heh
23:40:07XavierGrhaha
23:40:12XavierGror make an idle benchmark
23:40:25Paul_The_NerdOr Radio
23:40:25 Quit PaulJam (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:40:35XavierGrhow much can rockbox run without doing anything?
23:40:37tucozOn devices such as the nano, what is the best option (battery wise). Wav or mp3?
23:40:54Paul_The_NerdTheoretically WAV I would say, right?
23:41:36preglowprobably
23:41:39amiconnRadio will probably give a really long time. CPU running at 11MHz...
23:41:56preglowamiconn: even retailos runs for ages on radio
23:42:14 Join akaidiot [0] (n=not@217.28.34.35)
23:42:24*amiconn never used radio in retailos
23:42:32tucozyeah, the radio has save me lot's of times when I was low on battery
23:42:39tucozlots
23:43:09preglowi've used it a couple of times
23:43:16preglowonce i used it for hours and hours
23:43:20preglowhad almost no impact on battery
23:43:29XavierGrI can imagine...
23:43:50preglowyeah, when i used it for the local broadcast on an airshow once
23:44:10pregloweight hours or so, nothing much happened on the battery indicator
23:45:34*amiconn still has the idea of a wakeup timer for H1x0 on his todo list
23:45:46preglowi'd like that too, but i don't really need it anymore
23:45:48preglowsince i got the nano
23:46:45tucozwould you run it on 11Mhz then? Or even some lower frequency?
23:46:55tucozs/on/at
23:46:56amiconnIn addition to running the CPU at 11MHz (or depending on the additional requirements of the PLL, even 6.25MHz), we can put the LCD into standby, and switch off DRAM refresh, running the timer loop in IRAM only. Then set the timer interrupt from 100Hz to 1Hz
23:47:25XavierGrhow long can it last in that mode (theoritically)?
23:47:32tucozages ;)
23:47:38amiconnI think a couple of days... perhaps a week
23:48:04preglowa week sounds plausible enough
23:48:10Paul_The_NerdMore than long enough, either way.
23:48:10gpoohow do you people use ipod in your car
23:48:16amiconnIt really depends on what we can powerdown, and how the CPU power requirements change with frequency
23:48:23preglowamiconn: coldfire uses 1ma per mhz, yes?
23:48:32amiconnNo, less
23:48:35preglowsure?
23:48:45preglowi think they stated it somewhere
23:48:47preglowcan't remember where
23:48:54preglowanyway
23:48:59preglowi doubt the pll sucks that much
23:50:25gpoowhat is your people choose for using rockbox in the car
23:50:28gpooI need some input
23:50:35gpoomy car has a cassete player
23:51:06Paul_The_NerdThen use a cassette adapter.
23:51:13gpoomy question was which is th ebest one
23:51:15amiconnI just connect one of my rockboxes to my car stereo via aux in
23:51:18gpoobest one, I tryed three of them
23:51:29gpooand they all auto reverse
23:51:30gpooa lot
23:51:45gpooafter like one hour of play then every min it auto reserve it annoys me
23:51:48Paul_The_NerdThis is really a question you should be asking somewhere else, since it's not really Rockbox related.
23:52:03Paul_The_NerdBut it sounds like an issue with your tape deck.
23:52:18gpoohow is the quality of your aux
23:52:19 Quit heff (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:52:28gpooPaul_The_Nerd do you think something can be done to my tape deck
23:52:42gpoooh sorry I knw it not rockbox
23:53:02Paul_The_NerdIt would really depend on what's wrong with it. And an aux-input would sound noticeably better than a tape adapter.
23:53:18gpooI want to get pionner was my final question, which is to say will rockbox work with pionner setup
23:53:29gpooas to play and change songs even gapless
23:54:09Paul_The_NerdIf it uses the accessory protocol, that aspect of it won't work, and it's possible it won't work at all. If it simply uses the line out, it should work.
23:54:48gpoooh it uses accessory protocol

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