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#rockbox log for 2006-07-27

00:00:04amiconn...but the second one yields smaller & faster code. That's with -O (coldfire)
00:00:34*amiconn wonders why gcc doesn't find such obvious things...
00:07:12 Join MangoMan [0] (n=MangoMan@
00:07:40MangoManCan you get rockbox to support .wmv?
00:08:29|apo|I doubt it
00:08:38MangoManNo pluggins?
00:09:11|apo|First we have to get video...
00:09:21|apo|Dunno if that's planned
00:09:28Bagderwe don't plan
00:09:34|apo|See? :P
00:09:47linuxstb_MangoMan: 1) There is no open source wmv decoder; 2) The players rockbox runs on will struggle with all types of video playback.
00:09:52dionoealinuxstb_: wrong
00:09:54|apo|(I wouldn't want to watch videos on those screens anyway)
00:09:56dionoeacheck ffmpeg svn
00:10:03dionoeathe wmv decoder is quite nice
00:10:10dionoeayeah, Summer of Code project
00:10:12linuxstb_OK, then just 2) :)
00:10:21dionoeait's brand new
00:10:25linuxstb_Is there anything ffmpeg can't do?
00:10:29kerbffmpeg <3
00:10:29MangoManI want to play windows audio files
00:10:38BagderMangoMan: then start working
00:10:57Bagderfor audio, there seems to be work in progress
00:11:08Bagdernot that we've seen anything, but there are people claiming so
00:11:09MangoManYou have a link
00:11:13linuxstb_(but not encrypted/DRM'ed WMA)
00:11:29MangoManI just want to play norm already ripped wma
00:11:41MangoMansorry not wmv
00:11:52dionoeathere's a patch in the tracker i think ... don't know if it works though
00:12:03linuxstb_There is a long thread in the forums about it - but no running code has been published.
00:12:17MangoManhmm i see thanks for the hint i appreciate it\
00:13:14*MangoMan does a jig and snaps his fingers! " Thanks A Bunch"
00:13:17 Part MangoMan
00:15:05linuxstb_dionoea: Talking about ffmpeg, have you read anything lately about their AAC decoder?
00:15:38dionoeanot really ... i saw messages on the mailing list i think but i didn't read them :D
00:15:57linuxstb_Remind them that a fixed point version would be really useful...
00:16:09dionoeathat's one of the reccuring trolls
00:16:17 Quit bluebrother (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
00:16:42dionoeait's not usefull performance wise on modern computers ... performance can be lower with fixed point.
00:16:47dionoeaSo i doubt that they'll do one :)
00:17:18dionoeagood night people
00:18:26 Quit mirak (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:19:41 Quit Febs ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
00:22:41barrywardellquick question about config-*.h. What is CPU_FREQ about? Is that just the frequency of the processor? If so, why is it set to 11289600 in most of the files?
00:25:37amiconnCPU_FREQ is the base frequency of the CPU, i.e. with the PLL disabled
00:25:51amiconnIt's set to 11289600 for all coldfire targets
00:27:03amiconnArchos targets have different values (11059200 for recorders, 12000000 for player and Ondios). They have fixed CPU clock
00:27:23barrywardellit's set to that for ipod targets too and they're PortalPlayer based, with two arm cores
00:27:37 Quit obo ("bye")
00:27:51amiconnOn ipod it's probably unused, but misleading...
00:29:47grimman<< Reviewing some old code... and to be quite honest, I have no frikkin idea how it works. But it does.
00:30:04grimman(code of my own that is)
00:31:35 Quit tvelocity ("Ex-Chat")
00:41:50***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:43:28 Join TCK [0] (
00:51:32 Join midkay [0] (n=midkay@rockbox/developer/midkay)
00:54:27 Quit linuxstb_ ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
00:56:40 Quit BigMac (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:10:45 Part JoeBorn ("")
01:21:42 Join joe2 [0] (
01:29:17 Join RaiderX [0] (n=iPwn@
01:29:57RaiderXhey, is there a list, or a forum thread or somethign that has downloadbale plugins for rockbox on ipods? and if so link pls =)
01:31:05 Join linuxstb_ [0] (
01:33:27RaiderXnvm i noticed there are plugins in the patch list
01:33:28 Part RaiderX
01:34:29 Quit YouCeyE (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:34:42 Quit rconan (Client Quit)
01:42:46 Quit mikearthur_ (Remote closed the connection)
01:48:13 Join Aar0n [0] (
01:48:39Aar0nwhat id3 version should i use
01:50:17 Quit Aar0n (Client Quit)
01:50:23 Quit Seed (Nick collision from services.)
01:50:31 Join Seed [0] (
02:00:16 Join lamed [0] (
02:03:15 Join Paul_The_Nerd [0] (
02:06:13linuxstb_Paul_The_Nerd: Do you have the ability to close threads in the forums?
02:06:30linuxstb_Or more accurately, can the forum software close threads?
02:06:33 Quit nudelyn ("At Argon, we're working to keep your money.")
02:06:38linuxstb_(I assume you can do anything...)
02:07:02 Join BigMac [0] (
02:08:05Paul_The_Nerdlinuxstb_: Yeah, I can lock or remove threads.
02:09:07linuxstb_I just thought about it after reading that Doom on a PC post and realised I had never seen a locked thread in the Rockbox forums.
02:09:34Paul_The_NerdThere are a couple. And I just locked it anyway.
02:09:52 Quit spiorf (Remote closed the connection)
02:10:37BigMachave any of you eever talked to juius? he is a really nice guy.
02:10:51linuxstb_Ah... Apart from the lack of "reply" button, I can't tell that the thread's locked.
02:11:19linuxstb_So that explains why I've never noticed locked threads before...
02:11:21Paul_The_NerdYeah, it's not very visual about it.
02:11:41Paul_The_NerdSince I can reply to locked threads, it's even less obvious to me when one's locked.
02:12:13linuxstb_Maybe a final post saying "Thread locked because...". But I'm not going to lose any sleep worrying about it.
02:13:06 Join JdGordon [0] (
02:14:08 Join JoeBorn [0] (
02:17:47 Quit JoeBorn (Client Quit)
02:17:55BigMacis their something wrong with your patcher?
02:20:28JdGordonBigMac: why?
02:20:58BigMacits been 2-3 days and ive got no email
02:21:47JdGordonStats: 2 Builds completed successfully, 44 Builds completed unsuccessfully and i did both of them, so dw
02:22:14BigMacbut i got no email sau=ying it was unsuccessful
02:22:24JdGordoni need help with the php, because only the first selected patch in the list will get added
02:22:29JdGordonhmm,,, i dunno
02:22:53 Join JoeBorn [0] (
02:24:49 Quit linuxstb_ ("CGI:IRC")
02:26:07 Join jhMikeS [0] (
02:28:14 Quit TeaSea ("Leaving")
02:30:18amiconnBuild seems to hang _again_! grmbl!!
02:31:05JdGordoncvs server is pretty slow also
02:31:47JdGordonCC bookmark.c
02:31:47JdGordonIn file included from bookmark.c:38:
02:31:48JdGordonrecorder/icons.h:28:25: rockboxlogo.h: No such file or directory
02:31:48DBUGEnqueued KICK JdGordon
02:31:48JdGordonrecorder/icons.h:30:32: remote_rockboxlogo.h: No such file or directory
02:31:51JdGordonwhat the heck?
02:32:14amiconnThese are generated
02:32:15 Part Paul_The_Nerd
02:32:21JdGordonthats why im asking
02:32:48JdGordonthis is still happening after a reconfigure, and makeveryclearn
02:33:20 Quit JoeBorn ("Leaving")
02:35:37JdGordoncopying them from a previous build seems to work.. *wierd*
02:41:11 Quit Farpenoodle ("Large sacks of cheese")
02:41:38 Nick k8to_ is now known as k8to (
02:41:42 Quit bondolo (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:41:54***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:42:07 Part pixelma
02:47:37 Join blackvd [0] (
02:48:07blackvdsay my iriver froze using rockbox how do i reboot it?
02:48:23 Join Drkepilogue [0] (
02:48:40JdGordonpress the reset button
02:48:56 Quit FOAD (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
02:49:42blackvddidn't realize it had one
02:50:34 Part blackvd
02:54:47BigMacheh this is pretty sucky
02:55:17BigMacanyone know of a tool that organizes files into directories by album and artist?
02:55:31BigMacbecause manually doing this on my ipod blows
02:57:50 Join YouCeyE [0] (n=YouCeyE@unaffiliated/youceye)
03:02:23sharpeBigMac: you can... pay someone else to do it for you.
03:04:13BigMacill pay you 50 cents to do it sharpe:-)
03:04:26BigMacdo you accept money orders?
03:04:33sharpeah. maybe.
03:04:48BigMacim glad i only have like 120 songs lol
03:05:32k8toBigMac: there's a lot of tools that try to do that by tags
03:05:32 Quit lamed ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
03:05:53k8toBigMac: i've used this thing called 'cantus' which is for free unix and has the worst interface ever
03:05:57k8tobut lets you script stuff
03:06:22dongsjesus christ dudes. 'fade in on pause' is totally fucking unusable. why does it change the play/pause icon only AFTER the fact? i just clicked play/pause liek 8 times trying to get the fuckin thing to stop because icon wasnt changing, and hten i noticed it kept fading the sound in and out repeatedly and only THEN changing the icon
03:06:33k8toif your files aren't reliably tagged, or reliably named, then there's no way to automate it to my knowledge, unoless you have software that can recognize songs by sound
03:06:34sharpehahah. "the worst interface ever, but lets you script stuff."
03:06:51dongswhy is a) that stuff on by default b) changes the icon only AFTER the fade is complete??
03:07:22k8tosharpe: well it's significantly simpler to script in it than with external tools
03:07:32BigMachey my pause on unplug isnt working
03:07:38BigMacwhats up with that
03:07:40sharpeyeah, i'm sure it is, but that just struck me as funny.
03:07:56BigMaci have it set to pause and resume
03:07:58k8tosharpe: i can do stuff like say "make all these files stored in directory/artist, oh wait, that's the wrong spelling for Pink Floyd" and it automatically fixes everything
03:08:01BigMacand it does neither
03:08:05BigMacjust keeps playing
03:08:16k8tosharpe: but it's truly horrific to use
03:08:20k8toin terms of where to click
03:08:24sharpei lelieve you.
03:08:30sharpebelieve, not lelieve.
03:08:44k8tosorry maybe you were just being amused, i thought you might be amused and interested slightly
03:09:05sharpeamused, but not very interested. sorry.
03:09:09k8tofair enough
03:09:13k8toi don't really recommend it :P
03:09:21sharpei wouldn't really have much of a way to use it either
03:09:45BigMacdongs:you can turn it of man....
03:10:01dongsBigMac: no kidding, but its broken AND on by default
03:10:26k8todongs: i think you're right that there should be visual indication on activation
03:10:36 Quit joe2 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
03:10:40dongsk8to: it should just change the icon to pause BEFORE fade starts.
03:10:48midkaydongs: it isn't BROKEN. it might look a bit weird if the icon says "pause" when there's music playing, hm?
03:10:58k8todongs: hmm, i think there should really be three states
03:11:04dongssince if LCD is dark, one tap takes to wake it up, another tap takes to MAYBE start the pause process, and it would confuse the user if there was no feedback that something was happening
03:11:08k8todongs: not paused, pausing, paused
03:11:34k8toi would probably make it blink while pausing
03:11:39k8toor throb
03:11:51midkayk8to: that isn't going to happen.. (1) the fade only takes like under a second, it'd be pretty pointless and (2) the short fade is the only place it'd be used that i can think of..
03:12:07midkayah, blinking is potential, but unlikely also..
03:12:18k8tomidkay: well i can accept that it isn't going to happen, but it isn't pointless
03:12:25k8tomidkay: it's good user feedback
03:12:44k8to"the thing you did is working" is good user interface
03:13:00midkayk8to: considering the fade-length it is more or less. of course that's an opinion and it won't ever be a fact. you can't say "this is pointless, period."..
03:13:11midkayk8to: that'd apply here if it wasn't already working.
03:13:13dongslawl, i told oyu i just clicked pause like EIGHT TIMES because I couldnt tell waht hte fuck it was doing, so I was sittin here for liek 20 seconds while it faded in/out in/out instead of turning off like I wanted to
03:13:16k8toit's not opinion, it's a generally accepted user interface principle
03:13:26midkaydongs: learn to be a bit more patient then. or turn it off.
03:13:39k8tonot that I care much
03:13:40midkayk8to: a flashing play icon for half a second? .. generally accepted... yeah...
03:14:29k8todon't be hostile to improvement suggestions
03:14:49midkayk8to: i'm not at all. don't be hostile to responses to your suggestions. not everyone will love them. :)
03:14:51k8tofeel free to mentally classify them at the very bottom of the pile
03:14:58k8toit's not my suggestion
03:15:07midkaywhose is it then, and why are you taking such offense?
03:15:14k8toi'm not offended
03:15:32midkaywhatever you wish to call it, it's unpleasant.
03:15:48k8toI am sorry that your interpretation of my comments is unpleasant
03:15:53 Join ^jhMikeS^ [0] (
03:15:53 Join Paul_The_Nerd [0] (
03:18:44dongswhats unpleasant is
03:18:50dongspressing pause
03:18:53dongsdoesnt do shit
03:18:56dongsand the user keeps pressing it
03:19:00dongsbecause he knows something is wrong wiht opensource
03:19:07dongsuntil he notices theres like 8 fadein/out requests queued
03:19:12dongsand goes fuck this shit and breaks his ipod.
03:19:15dongs^ true story.
03:19:20k8toi would say that you have a real user who has encountered a usability problem
03:19:27k8tohowever minor
03:19:35midkayi wouldn't call dongs a user in any way.. personally.
03:20:28k8todo you think he is trolling?
03:20:39midkayat the moment, not exactly.
03:21:01 Join niskel [0] (
03:21:07midkayi haven't seen you around before today, so you wouldn't know that he's always around moaning about open source applications, telling us to switch to proprietary compilers, moaning about every little thing...
03:21:20midkays/you wouldn't know/i don't think you'd know/
03:21:41k8towell, I think he is still a user, even if he isn't worth dealing with
03:21:45dongsmajority of 'every little things" i moan about are valid user interface/usability concerns
03:22:29Paul_The_NerdI don't remember a single valid concern from our conversation yesterday.
03:22:41 Quit Drkepilogue ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
03:23:04k8tosometimes i wish i could be 'tech support' for open source projects
03:23:12k8towithout it being awful, that is
03:23:31Paul_The_NerdIt's pretty awful, most of the time.
03:23:34k8toi have the right skillset and interest to filter through such things, but tech support is usually just an information bottleneck anyway
03:23:53CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
03:23:53*Paul_The_Nerd is essentially volunteer Tech Support for Rockbox.
03:24:13sharpeis sharpe considered tech support for rockbox?
03:24:21k8toPaul_The_Nerd: do you file bug from complaints much?
03:24:43Paul_The_Nerdk8to: My usual process is getting them to the point where they can file a proper bug.
03:24:53k8toteach a man to fish
03:25:00Paul_The_NerdAsk them questions to verify it's a real concern, then tell them what to include when they report it.
03:25:01 Join Rondom_ [0] (
03:25:32k8toyeah sometimes i just think someone reports something, and a light goes on in your head
03:25:46k8toand you're pretty sure you know about a much more specific problem
03:26:17k8tothat was about the only thing i ever did in tech support that i felt was valuable
03:26:29k8tothe synthesis of real problem analysis from many reports
03:27:08k8tohandholding feels ultimately unrewarding, since i think they should be learning to read docs themselves
03:27:11 Quit niskel (Remote closed the connection)
03:27:25k8toor i hsould be writing supplementary docs
03:27:36dongsthe way that part is done in opensores projects is 'LOL NOOB THATS HOW ITS SUPPOSED TO WORK'
03:27:56k8todongs: hm, that varies a lot. irc leans more that way
03:28:10k8tosince people have to suffer a lot of complainers
03:28:40dongslike this other problem i brought up a while ago (but now I know theres no *good* technical way to fix it) but anyway, if HOLD is on and ipod is plugged into usb, rockbox starts up after its plugged in and promptly erases settings (because hold on while power up = erase settings). but if someone just plugs the thing to charge, and forgets that it was on hold, they come back to it with all settings reset.
03:29:10dongsthats bullshit and pisses users off.
03:29:20k8tomy naive reaction is that hold perhaps should not be used that way
03:29:24dongsbut i was told theres no way to fix that because keypad isnt readable at boot and hold is a gpio pin that can be checked.
03:29:44k8tobut i suppose the ipod has pretty limited inputs
03:30:02dongsa 2-3 key combo AFTER boot would be just as effective, i think.
03:30:11dongsfor whatever reason that someone would wnat ot erase settings.
03:30:12k8toi don't know the rationale
03:30:36k8toholding down say forward and rewind would be more pleasant from a user perspective
03:30:40sharpewell for instance, if they accidentally, somehow set their background and foreground colors to the same color...
03:30:42Paul_The_Nerddongs: It's possible for a bad settings block to freeze the iPod before you can get to a point where keypad input is possible, but a clear will still work.
03:30:47dongssharpe: yes, that was the excuse.
03:30:59k8tosharpe: having a settings erase feature seems a good idea
03:31:00dongssharpe: however backround color has nothing to do with which keys to press to reset them.
03:31:10k8tosharpe: although not letting them make that setting seems a good idea too :)
03:31:24dongsthat would be thinking too much
03:31:39*Paul_The_Nerd has never accidentally cleared his settings, but has on occasion had to intentionally clear them because his iPod would lock up with an IllInstr immediately upon boot.
03:31:41dongscant have that in opensource projects
03:31:42k8toi would put it on the todolist
03:31:43 Quit jhMikeS (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
03:31:51k8toPaul_The_Nerd: do you use hold much normally?
03:32:07k8toi use it a great deal
03:32:16sharpei've had the same-foreground-background colors happen to me once.
03:32:26Paul_The_Nerdk8to: I do use it a great deal, but only when it's in my pocket.
03:32:44k8toi bicycle with my dap attached to my bag
03:32:51k8towith hold on
03:32:52Paul_The_Nerddongs: Even if you put safeguards in for the background color, it's nearly impossible to safeguard a backdrop image the same way.
03:32:54k8tofor many horus
03:32:57k8to(one ear)
03:33:03k8toso it will run out of batteries with hold on
03:33:07k8to== boot up with hold on
03:33:25dongsand promptly erase settings.
03:33:54Paul_The_NerdHow does running out of batteries with hold on equal booting with hold on?
03:34:01k8toi don't think the complaint is that there is a way to reset settings, but that it is possible to accidentally trigger it in normal operation without intentionality
03:34:13k8toPaul_The_Nerd: because later you power it on again
03:34:23dongs(it powers on when you plug it into charger)
03:34:33Paul_The_NerdSo again it's a case of the user not bothering to check the hold switch.
03:34:39k8tohow important are these settings anyway?
03:34:41dongswhy the fuck should I be bothered to check the switch
03:34:45 Join Drkepilogue [0] (
03:34:57k8tois it all settings?
03:35:01Paul_The_Nerdk8to: It's all settings.
03:35:15k8tothat seems fairly annoying if you trigger it frequently
03:35:15Paul_The_NerdYou can export it to an text readable file though, and reimport if they get cleared.
03:35:19sharpeyay, lets get angry!
03:35:29dongsit goes back to the default font/whatever, scrollbar on left side (not changeable, either), default wps etc.
03:35:31k8toPaul_The_Nerd: that's nice
03:35:45Paul_The_Nerddongs: You should bother to check the switch because that's the way we say it needs to be done. If you don't like it, code a better solution, offer one that addresses the current list of needs, or shut up.
03:35:59dongs^ typical open source reply
03:36:15Paul_The_Nerddongs: All you've done is complain without offering an alternative.
03:36:17k8towere I the developer, which I'm not
03:36:18Paul_The_Nerd"It's BAD"
03:36:41Paul_The_NerdOMG, our method isn't the best? Jee, so what. It's what we have, and nobody has offered a method that's better.
03:36:44k8toI would say: yes, it's less than ideal. It's not _that_ important, and we have bigger things to do right now. patches welcome
03:36:44dongsPaul_The_Nerd: 99% of your users are this way
03:36:57dongsPaul_The_Nerd: they're USERS.
03:36:58dongsnot programmers.
03:37:05dongsthey could care less how it works or why it works.
03:37:07dongsthey see an annoying feature
03:37:08 Quit Rondom (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
03:37:09k8todongs: there are two ways to slice it
03:37:10dongsand complain about it.
03:37:19Paul_The_Nerddongs: Yes, but you complain about it despite knowing better.
03:37:20dongstelling them to "submit a patch" is totally useless.
03:37:31Paul_The_NerdAnd I didn't offer submitting a patch as the only alternative.
03:37:46dongsthere are no alternatives to usability problems.
03:37:46Paul_The_NerdI also said suggest a method that addresses the current needs.
03:38:01Paul_The_NerdIf there are NO alternatives, then why bother complaining at all?
03:38:06Paul_The_NerdIf it cannot be better, then it isn't broken.
03:38:13BigMacpaul:what could cause the "pause on unplug functin to not work, but the headphones work and music still plays
03:38:27Paul_The_NerdBigMac: I didn't write that patch.
03:38:45BigMacoh i thought it was part of the cvs
03:38:51k8todongs: it is important to realize that changing behavior isn't really that easy
03:38:56k8todongs: it's a lot of work to make code
03:39:02dongsi press ctlr+n to open new window in firefox, and alt-d to go to the location bar. because my homepage is about:blank, 50% of the time firefox will popup this 'enter url' window that only pops up when there's no location bar and oyu hit alt-d. I documented this and opened a bug on bugzilla. it seems it will not be fixed because "most people dont open new windows in firefox" being the excuse. what the FUCK? and they expect me to use this shit?
03:39:04Paul_The_NerdBigMac: If ANYTHING is ever not working, try a CVS build first to make sure it doesn't work.
03:39:25Paul_The_Nerddongs: WTF does FireFox have to do with Rockbox?
03:39:28dongs(which is why I use IE)
03:39:30midkaydongs: they don't expect you to use it, no. they PROVIDE it and you decide whether you want to or not.
03:39:32Paul_The_NerdOther than two overlapping letters?
03:39:37k8todongs: hahah now you're trolling
03:39:38midkayif you don't like their decisions, don't use it.
03:39:51dongsmidkay: i dont.
03:39:59midkaysee, you act like we ought to care that you use IE.. no, it's just a preference.
03:40:01k8tosorry to feed him :(
03:40:16midkayk8to: thankfully it's not as bad as usual.
03:41:29 Quit Drkepilogue ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
03:41:34dongs < check it out
03:42:22dongstheir "solution" was "use tabs lol"
03:42:36Paul_The_Nerddongs: Again, this channel is relating to ROCKBOX
03:42:49dongswell i named like 3 things
03:42:51k8towhat is a good way to keep tabs on the rockbox porting efforts? (I'm sort of intersted in buying rockbox-capable hardware) I know about the general wiki and the mailing list. Are these the best ways?
03:42:52dongsthat annoy me in rockbox
03:43:09 Quit Daishi ("Client exiting...")
03:44:01Paul_The_Nerddongs: You also claimed one was unfixable, which kinda makes it pointless to complain, doesn't it?
03:44:14dongsits unfixable the way its done now
03:44:18Paul_The_Nerdk8to: See the New Ports forum, and see which are most active.
03:44:26 Join Febs [0] (
03:44:29Paul_The_Nerddongs: And what way of doing it would make it fixable?
03:44:38dongsthats not really my concern as a user
03:44:50dongsa even BETTER solution would be
03:44:55dongsa) prevent crashes due to settings fuckups
03:45:03Paul_The_NerdThat's being worked on.
03:45:05dongsb) prevent users from setting settings that fuck shit up.
03:45:18dongsthen you wouldnt need *gasp* a reset settings function on hardware!
03:45:30k8todongs: if you haven't done it already, file a feature request (no need to be unnecessary confrontational), and include a concise rationale
03:45:40Paul_The_Nerdk8to: He can't be bothered.
03:45:48Paul_The_NerdHe has more fun this way.
03:46:01Paul_The_NerdNotice that his rational is "I'm a user, so I don't have to offer alternatives."
03:46:10Paul_The_NerdHe doesn't *have* to do anything but complain, so he doesn't.
03:46:25k8todongs: and if you feel the need to harp on it, tell affected users to tick the request
03:46:31 Nick scottder is now known as Lo_P (
03:46:35 Nick Lo_P is now known as Lo_Pan (
03:46:56 Nick Lo_Pan is now known as scottder (
03:47:04k8todongs: but whinging here just makes noise which has the possibility to damage rockbox communication
03:47:15k8toso i recommend avoiding that unless it's your goal
03:49:52dongsmy goal is to have something that doesnt piss me off daily while im using it :)
03:50:32Paul_The_NerdThen use the retail firmware.
03:50:48dongsno, that pisses me off even more because itunes is a worthless piece of shit
03:51:09dongsand I refuse to organize waht shitty music I have by album/artist/whatever
03:51:15Paul_The_NerdThen stop using your iPod.
03:52:46dongsi could, its not like i paid for it.
03:52:54dongsi forgot about it for a week , and battery was dead.
03:53:01Paul_The_NerdSee, problem solved.
03:53:12Paul_The_NerdAnd that way you can avoid the open source software that you so loathe.
03:54:38scottderNo kidding...
03:54:48scottderwrite something better or quit yer belly-achin
03:55:49BigMacwhat is a transcode exactly
03:55:53*Febs observes that dongs has actually written two whole lines without using the words "fuck" or "shit."
03:55:58FebsMust be a record
03:56:00BigMacisnt it going from one format to another
03:56:02k8tofalse dichotomy! which is really too bad, since there is a pretty reasonable claim here: dongs you are being a git
03:56:08FebsBigMac: yes.
03:56:32k8toBigMac: usually it refers to the data loss that occurs when going from one lossy format to another
03:56:41BigMacah i see
03:56:42dongsokay now i gotta get back to work. thank you for your input.
03:56:47dongsi hope the fade pause thing gets fixed
03:57:28 Join joe2 [0] (
03:57:41*^jhMikeS^ is chuckling at this conversion.
03:57:52k8toBigMac: for example, FLAC -> ogg is usually not talked about in terms of transcoding, even though it is a format change
03:58:09Paul_The_Nerdk8to: Most places I see, any format change is called a transcode, even lossless to lossless.
03:58:10k8toBigMac: since it is not lossy to lossy, so there is no special set of artifacting problems
03:58:30Paul_The_NerdSo long as one of the formats is not uncompressed.
03:58:43k8toPaul_The_Nerd: i think that's a fair usage of the term, but usually i see it associated with the lossy to lossy issue
03:58:53scottdernot uncompressed? :)
03:58:59Mikachuif you want to be pedantic, "as long as one of the formats is not coded."
03:59:20BigMachow can i change tag info in xp
03:59:30*^jhMikeS^ thinks all formats are technically coded. Maybe he is insane.
03:59:32scottderI rip most stuff to flac....then transcode to ogg vorbis for my nano/rockbox
03:59:35JdGordonright click - propertieas.. maube?
03:59:42k8to^jhMikeS^: agree
03:59:58^jhMikeS^k8to: With which part? :)
04:00:03k8toscottder: do you do that on the fly, or keep both copies?
04:00:11k8to^jhMikeS^: the former
04:00:17BigMacscott:why rockbox can read flac, can't it
04:00:21k8to^jhMikeS^: i have no experience with the latter
04:00:27scottderI keep both....flac for home listening...
04:00:28MikachuBigMac: you can not fit many .flac on one ipod nano
04:00:40scottderI just use dbpoweramp in winders
04:00:44BigMacflac is large?
04:00:57Mikachu|−−−−−−−−−−−−- |
04:00:58Mikachuthat large
04:01:00scottderlossless usually us
04:01:03BigMacbut of better quality
04:01:04k8toMikachu: wow!
04:01:18k8tofor the settings I use, flac is around 3-5 times larger than ogg
04:01:19*scottder uses -q3 goo vorbis for on the go
04:01:35scottderat that rate my 4Gb nano can hold a lot of music
04:01:39scottderogg...not goo
04:01:41 Quit Kohlriba ("Quit")
04:01:56BigMacwhat is the best quality type for ripping from a cd
04:02:11scottderlossless is ....lossless
04:02:16scottderEXACTLY like the CD
04:02:22k8toBigMac: i'm not sure exactly what you mean. there are formats which lose no data, and thus store all the fidelity available on the CD
04:02:33k8toBigMac: any lossless format keeps all the data
04:02:39 Quit enzyme ()
04:02:40k8toBigMac: FLAC is a popular such format
04:02:54k8to(other examples, WAV, raw, monkey's audio (ape))
04:03:06Mikachu(wav is a container)
04:03:09scottderit compresses it without actually removing any of the audio data....loss codecs do
04:03:10BigMacso why would i want flac more then ape or vice versus
04:03:12Paul_The_NerdALAC, wavpack...
04:03:14k8tookay, well i mean typical wav files (pcm)
04:03:30MikachuBigMac: software support
04:03:39scottderdifference in lossless codecs is small %'s of compress VS CPU to uncompress
04:03:55k8toBigMac: flac is nice in that it is open and thus supported in a wide range of software and devices
04:04:00k8toBigMac: as compared to APE
04:04:13BigMacok for rockbox, which format would i want to use
04:04:14k8toBigMac: i recommend FLAC over all other lossless formats
04:04:20BigMacon a 30 gb video pod
04:04:21scottderI believe (and I can be wrong) APE gets SLIGHTLy better compression, but also at the cost of higher CPU to uncompress
04:04:32scottderFLAC is very versatile and supported by Rockbox
04:04:34Paul_The_NerdFLAC is almost definitely the best for Rockbox.
04:04:45Paul_The_NerdI believe wavpack can achieve slightly smaller files.
04:04:46scottdermaybe not the best for battery life....
04:04:52FebsRockbox on my iPod glitches on WavPack.
04:05:02Paul_The_NerdBut requires more CPU to decompress. I don't think anyone's tested whether the additional spinup here and there hurts more.
04:05:06scottderbut really....try a few different may be suprised....
04:05:12k8toBigMac: the tradeoff between things like FLAC and lossy formats such as musepack, ogg, mp3, and aac involve a variety of factors; cpu time, storage space, audio fidelity
04:05:30FebsI'll probably convert them to FLAC because FLAC has better software support in general (as mentioned previously).
04:05:39BigMacso is the genral consesus for rockbox flac
04:05:43JdGordoncan you do strikethrough text in the wiki?
04:05:50FebsIncidentally, I would refer to that conversion as transcoding.
04:06:11k8toBigMac: the reason to NOT use flac is because if you use something else, you can put more music per space
04:06:24k8toBigMac: so it is a tradeoff
04:06:42BigMacso does flac sound a lot better then ogg
04:06:44FebsThat assumes that you can hear a difference between FLAC and a lossy format.
04:06:44k8toif you have infinite storage or little music, FLAC is a good bet
04:06:56FebsBigMac, not necessarily.
04:07:03scottderwith HDs so cheap....I like lossless for home
04:07:03k8toFebs: yes but then also there is the archival issue
04:07:15BigMacwell isnt ogg smaller then flac?
04:07:19Febsk8to, very true. I was talking about on the nano.
04:07:23k8toBigMac: lossy formats such as ogg,mp3, aac have quality settings
04:07:29Paul_The_NerdBigMac: Most people cannot hear the difference between FLAC and high quality encodes in good lossy formats. There's almost always a point after which a user can't hear the difference.
04:07:36BigMaci thought ogg wasnt lossy
04:07:42FebsOgg is lossy.
04:07:44k8toBigMac: so you can set them to higher or lower quality. at their highest quality, most people cannot hear the difference between the original and the lossy version
04:07:46Mikachuogg is not a codec
04:07:55scottderto be technical
04:07:56FebsOK, Ogg Vorbis is lossy.
04:08:03Mikachui will be wearing the Annoying Hat tonight
04:08:07BigMacwhat is vorbis's extension?
04:08:29k8toBigMac: if you are not an audiophile, you will probably not notice the quality loss for a high quality ogg encoding
04:08:40Paul_The_NerdDoes our software handle flacs with a .ogg extension yet?
04:08:46*scottder has no golden ears....Q3 oggs work for me most of the time
04:08:52scottderthe lossy codecs have come a ways....
04:08:53k8toBigMac: if you are an audiophile type person, musepack is supposed to be even higher quality, so maybe you would prefer that
04:09:09BigMacim far from an audiophile
04:09:18k8toBigMac: then any lossy format will probably be fine
04:09:27BigMacand im not sure if i can even tell the difference between mp3 and ogg
04:09:29k8toBigMac: so long as you choose a reasonable quality setting
04:09:39BigMaci dont rip my own cds
04:09:46scottderencode some stuff at different bitrates....see what works for you is my suggestion
04:09:47BigMaci get most songs from friends
04:09:51k8toBigMac: oh, then you don't have much of a choice about format!
04:09:57BigMaci dont have many cds
04:10:04BigMaci think i have one actual cd
04:10:10BigMacall others are mixs
04:10:13k8toBigMac: if you are not creating the files, then just play them
04:10:17k8toand don't worry about formats
04:10:28Paul_The_NerdNo conversion can *ever* improve quality.
04:10:32Mikachui would like to point out that converting from a lossy format such as vorbis to a lossless like flac will not give you better quality
04:10:36 Quit YouCeyE (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
04:10:46k8toBigMac: unless your friends love you so much that you can order them to create new files for you in a different format etc
04:11:06scottderindeed :)
04:11:17k8toMikachu: unless you feel that whooshy artifact sound is really the extra zing your music needed
04:11:21k8toMikachu: ;)
04:11:54BigMacok ill just stick to mp3 then
04:12:51FebsPaul_The_Nerd, on a different topic, I've started closing threads on the forum that don't relate in any way to Rockbox.
04:13:15FebsI don't think that the Rockbox forums needs to be a place for general chat, as there are a million other forums that serve that purpose.
04:13:17k8todo you think a wiki can work as a discussion forum for a large audience or is that just hopeless?
04:14:09FebsI think that a wiki is a great tool for many things, but it is not well-suited to discussion.
04:14:38FebsOf course, the signal-to-noise ratio on a wiki discussion tends to be much higher than in discussions on the forums.
04:14:43BigMacFebs:Perhaps a Non rockbox discussion subforum
04:14:52FebsWhy do we need that?
04:15:16BigMacso then people can talk about no rockbox items...
04:15:26k8tothe reason to do it, i think, would be to encourage a 'community' to form on your forum thing
04:15:26BigMacmaybe people like the members of the community
04:15:29Paul_The_NerdFebs: I agree with that decision wholly. Until recently I'd been treating them with a "Stop that" but I think we've reached a population level where thread closures are better. Both non-Rockbox discussion, AND tech-support requests related to patched builds.
04:15:39k8to(not that I am arguing for it)
04:15:50BigMacand if they went to another forum those people wouldnt be there
04:15:56Paul_The_NerdFebs: Any problem with a patched build should be met with a closed thread, and a post stating that the question should either be asked on the thread for the build, or should be verified to happen in CVS and a new thread started.
04:16:25Paul_The_NerdBigMac: The Rockbox forum isn't a community though. It's a tool. Support, and development.
04:16:29k8toPaul_The_Nerd: is there a forum place for people to discuss patched build problems without them being explicitly support requests?
04:16:44Paul_The_NerdBigMac: It's a community in the sense of "The community of people working on improving this"
04:16:58FebsRight. If there are people who wouldn't be on the forum but for off-topic discussions, honestly, I don't think we need to have those people there.
04:17:07Paul_The_Nerdk8to: No. For patches in the tracker, problems with that patch should be posted to the tracker entry for it.
04:17:15Paul_The_Nerdk8to: Unofficial builds are frankly not our problem.
04:17:33k8towell facilitating discussion isn't exactly the same as owning a problem
04:17:48k8tobut *shrug* you know way more about the issues than me
04:18:00Paul_The_NerdThe issue is that these unofficial builds are essentially Forks.
04:18:13Paul_The_NerdAnd that many people don't even know or ever find out that they're unofficial
04:18:22BigMaci thought they were more of spoons paul...
04:18:27Paul_The_NerdOther people hear about problems with the unofficial builds, or features, and think they're included in the real build.
04:18:50 Quit XavierGr ()
04:19:01FebsPaul_The_Nerd, I agree with you about unofficial builds only to a point. I don't feel a need to provide tech support for users of patched builds. But I don't want to discourage discussion of the patches themselves.
04:19:14k8toPaul_The_Nerd: i guess i would say consider an area for discussion of "problems with unofficial builds and patches" since tsaid patches might get included in the future etc
04:19:21Paul_The_NerdFebs: Discussion of the patches is different from discussion of the patched build.
04:19:28k8tothere are a variety of .. social reasons for and against such
04:19:43Paul_The_NerdFebs: For example, jblackglass includes many patches not even on the tracker. It also has so many patches that it's impossible to pin down which causes a given error.
04:20:00Paul_The_Nerdk8to: As I said, the patch tracker has a means for commenting on patches already.
04:20:18k8toyes, which is neither here nor there
04:20:23Paul_The_NerdHow so?
04:20:34Paul_The_NerdIf you can't figure out which patch in a build causes the problem, report to the build author
04:20:41Paul_The_NerdIf you know which patch causes the problem, report to the patch author.
04:20:46Paul_The_NerdIs there a third situation I don't know of?
04:21:02FebsGotta run. I'm glad we're in agreement on the issue of non-Rockbox threads.
04:21:18Paul_The_NerdCya Febs
04:21:19 Quit Febs ()
04:21:27k8tosometimes user to user discussion is useful, even in the absence of build or patch specificity knowledge
04:21:48Paul_The_NerdI don't even know what you meant by that statement...
04:22:04Paul_The_NerdThreads can be started for individual patches.
04:22:10Paul_The_NerdPeople can discuss the function of said individual patch.
04:22:29k8toi'm done suggesting things, they were just food for thought
04:22:36Paul_The_NerdWell I'm not even sure what you're suggesting...
04:22:46k8toyeah and i don't think it's worth going over anymore
04:23:23 Join scott666_ [0] (
04:23:24Paul_The_NerdThe way I see it, discussion of patches should be limited to the single thread on that patch, so a patch author doesn't have to seek fifty locations of people commenting on their patch.
04:23:36k8toit's tricky
04:23:48k8toyou really want any and all problems with a patch to end up in the patch page
04:23:59k8tobut not all discussion starts out patch specific
04:24:19Paul_The_NerdPeople are free to discuss Rockbox ideas and bugs all they want.
04:25:14 Part scott666_
04:26:06k8toare the patches not in the tracker not there due to laziness or a lack of knowledge or a desire to have some kind of independence by some developers, do you think?
04:26:18k8toor otherwise? just curious
04:26:27k8tosince that sounds like a super reasonable desire
04:26:42Paul_The_NerdHe feels they're not likely to be included in CVS (which is true since they override existing behaviour without options).
04:26:56Paul_The_NerdHis patches just change the behaviour of the status bar so that it fits his themes.
04:27:07k8tooh you're talking about some specific unclean work?
04:27:14BigMacwho is this he and his
04:27:21Paul_The_NerdI'm talking about any instance of an author being unwilling to include his patch in the tracker.
04:27:37Paul_The_NerdIf a patch is at the tracker, it will always be available for users to improve upon, or integrate in their own builds or not as they see fit.
04:27:43Paul_The_NerdIf it's privately hosted they can take it down at any time.
04:27:58Paul_The_NerdThis is why I'm against having any WPSes in the gallery that use non-tracker patches.
04:28:43Paul_The_NerdThis is also why I'm against discussion of custom builds outside their thread. In many, if not all, cases, small changes have been made to the patches to get them to work together.
04:29:05Paul_The_NerdWhich means almost every custom build has modifications that would not be there for user using just one of the patches.
04:31:19k8toi wonder if there's any special property of rockbox that is encouraging divergent development that does not apply to other open projects
04:31:33Paul_The_NerdPeople like pretty.
04:31:47k8toyeah i'd be tempted to blame the skin people too
04:31:49Paul_The_NerdSpecifically, it happened with Album Art.
04:32:01Paul_The_NerdWhen the Album Art first became available, the custom build trend started.
04:32:12Paul_The_NerdBecause even now the patch isn't acceptable for CVS I believe.
04:32:30k8toin the long run they'll have to track the main
04:32:34Paul_The_NerdBut nearly every custom build stems with the desire to use WPSes not supported in the current one, or in a few cases games.
04:32:41k8tomaybe they will get tired of making it work and merge it properly or stop
04:33:47Paul_The_NerdEither way, the forums are for discussing Rockbox. From my perspective people discussing Jbuild outside the Jbuild thread are like Debian users going into a RedHat support and development forum, and chatting about their breed of linux.
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04:34:21scottderKids now-a-days and there custom builds....standard CVS build is good enough for me
04:34:23 Part scott666
04:34:27Paul_The_NerdIn most cases the person making the custom build isn't even the author of any of the patches (or in some cases one or two) and has just compiled them together.
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04:38:03k8tomy build is the coolest
04:38:15Paul_The_NerdI'm quite fond of mine.
04:38:31Paul_The_NerdActually, my build has no patches any more, just small changes I've made.
04:39:25k8tono patches, honest! just *cough* changes
04:40:34Paul_The_NerdPeople using patches is a good thing.
04:40:50Paul_The_NerdPeople not knowing the real features of Rockbox at all, and having no idea what patches they're using, not so much.
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04:42:03 Join tokyo-ahead [0] (
04:42:20tokyo-aheadhi all... is there a rss-feed about news for rockbox?
04:42:27tokyo-aheadcould not find one on the site
04:43:15sharpenope, there isn't...
04:43:41midgey34the cvs activity is the closest we have
04:44:56Paul_The_NerdThe news doesn't change very often.
04:45:05Paul_The_NerdThe CVS mailing list can be subscribed to, though.
04:45:07k8tothe wiki has an RSS
04:45:14k8towhich might or might not be interesting to you
04:45:47k8toi track some projects that way
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04:46:01tokyo-aheadok thanks
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05:08:36 Join Jungti1234 [0] (n=jungti12@
05:09:22Jungti1234I have problem....
05:09:24Jungti1234what's mean?
05:10:03 Quit bow-viper ()
05:10:03Paul_The_NerdJungti1234: It means the patch can't be installed.
05:10:12Jungti1234why happend..
05:10:25Paul_The_NerdIt may be old?
05:10:31k8tothat patch was meant to be applied against code in a different state than your code
05:10:46k8toie. a different version as paul says, or possibly you have applied multiple incompatable patches?
05:10:49midgey34the patch isn't up to date with cvs or conflicts with another patch you have installed
05:11:34Jungti1234but julius patch succeed.
05:12:25k8toif you are a developer you could manually review the changes the patch makes vs the code
05:12:55k8tohowever, i doubt you are, so you should either: a) not use that patch, or b) figure out what that patch wants to apply against and use that
05:13:47Jungti1234Do I change it manually?
05:14:05Jungti1234then, can I use it?
05:14:33k8tostep 1) are you a developer?
05:14:42k8toIf yes) fix it yourself
05:14:43Jungti1234hehe, no.
05:14:47Paul_The_NerdOr C programmer, at least.
05:14:48k8toIf no) do not use that patch
05:14:59Jungti1234okok.. I will fix it myself.
05:16:24k8towhenever you apply a patch to a source base, there is no guarantee it will work
05:17:20k8toif you apply it to the exact codebase that it was written for, it should work. if you use a different (older or newer) version, or if you apply any other patches also, it can break
05:17:33k8toif you get these kinds of errors, that means it is breaking.
05:17:40k8toif you do not get these kinds of errors, it might still break
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05:24:07Jungti1234thanks k8to
05:24:42k8toi don't think i was much help, but you're welcome
05:41:48 Join dropandho [0] (
05:42:32dropandhohey all!
05:42:43dropandhoanyone happen to use the shure ec with their iriver?
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06:43:00JdGordongrrrr!!!! bloody pointers :'(
06:43:05*JdGordon is stuck
06:51:21 Quit dropandho ()
06:53:45BigMacanyone know any good m3u playlist makers for windows
06:54:08 Join RaiderX [0] (n=iPwn@
06:54:14Paul_The_NerdWell, Winamp and Foobar2000 are by far the most popular programs that can create them.
06:54:31Paul_The_NerdIf you're particularly oldschool you could go with EDIT, thought that might take a while.
06:55:00BigMacdoes wmp12 make m3u playlists?
06:55:30Paul_The_NerdWe probably won't know that for a year or two yet.
06:55:32RaiderXhey in the patches list where you can download plugins and stuff, peopel upload many files for each plugin, I only need the .rock file right? the rest is just source liek the .c files? like in this one:
06:56:04Paul_The_NerdRaiderX: Usually you need the source. The .rock may be outdated, or compiled for a different MP3 player, or both.
06:56:25RaiderXso i would need to recompile it?
06:56:51RaiderXdo i need liek the rockbox sdk?
06:56:53k8tom3u is a pretty straightforward format
06:57:09k8toi would probably write a script to create m3us if i needed such
06:57:14Paul_The_NerdRaiderX: See the SimpleGuideToCompiling page in the wiki.
06:57:20RaiderXok thx
06:57:39k8toit is just a textfile with a list of files plus some optional junk
06:57:45RaiderXis applyign patches in the wiki?
06:58:07enzyme any one here use the philips az1835 stereo
06:58:57 Quit Jungti1234 ()
07:05:03BigMacpaul:do i just select the m3u and it plays it?
07:07:09JdGordonit works!!!!!!!!
07:07:30scorcheBigMac: try it and see...
07:07:57BigMacoh i did
07:08:18BigMacand i think ill make one more playlist then im off to bed
07:14:16 Join aliask [0] (
07:14:31aliaskAfternoon all
07:16:54JdGordonhey aliask
07:17:07aliaskWhats new Jd?
07:17:57*midgey34 posts another plugin on the tracker
07:20:51aliaskOoh Ti83 games, did you port it or just take the idea?
07:21:18midgey34took the idea, I don't think the source is available
07:21:28midgey34and I think its written in asm
07:26:19 Quit eGen_ ("mýdlo končí ! ... ručník končí !")
07:26:21aliaskDamn, I was just looking for Phoenix - it's open sourced but its all Ti83 ASM...
07:26:34midgey34I loved that game
07:26:51aliaskI'm pretty sure I'm failing maths methods this year because of it
07:27:48midgey34my friend and I had tournaments in class with that, tetris, pacman, and baseball
07:27:50midgey34good times
07:28:16scorchehehe...i remember that game
07:28:41scorchegold phoenix was the best incarnation of it...much harder
07:29:06midgey34I remember trying to make my own level pack and failing miserably
07:29:22scorchecept i NEVER figured out what the "bonus" of the end score was...
07:29:52enzyme any one here use the philips az1835 stereo
07:30:09midgey34I haven't played in a while, did it have to do with how long it took you?
07:30:55scorcheWELL..THERE WAS "TIME"
07:31:05scorchelike i said..i have no idea
07:31:13JdGordonhow do i add an attachment to the wiki?
07:31:32aliaskI think you can't.
07:31:44aliaskThe whole wiki hack attack thing
07:31:45JdGordonmust be able to... the wps galley does that
07:32:08JdGordonah, its on the main page, not the edit page
07:37:39Bg3rJdGordon: any progress ? ;)
07:38:11JdGordonye, a bit,
07:38:24JdGordonjust uploaded the WIP patch to that
07:39:33JdGordonwork in progress
07:39:49Bg3rhehe ok
07:40:35BigMacok question
07:40:55BigMacwhat could cause my mp3s to be skipping alot
07:41:05BigMacthey worked fine a little while ago
07:41:19BigMaccould an eq preset be causing it
07:42:59midgey34ipods still are very optimized yet, so decoding is barely fullspeed on some codecs (and less than fullspeed on others). By turning on an EQ, you make the cpu work harder and it can't decode in realtime, therefore, you get skips occasionally.
07:44:34BigMacdoes flac play better then mp3 on an ipod
07:44:40BigMacsince it is better quality
07:44:42midgey34I don't know
07:44:59midgey34JdGordon: is your idea going to be extended to plugins as well or just the core?
07:45:12JdGordonmidgey34: to plugins as well
07:45:26midgey34quite the task
07:45:33JdGordoni tihnk linuxstb reckons the best way for that is adding plugin contexts to the plugin lib
07:45:42JdGordonye, but it doesnt have to be done in 1 hit
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07:47:26BigMacjd:can you explain what the button thing does?
07:47:32midgey34well, looking at the patch, it does seem to simplify the code quite a bit. much more readable
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07:47:54JdGordonBigMac: bassically makes the code much more managable
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07:50:21Bg3rany objections/corrections/additions ? :)
07:50:32NJoinpill [0] (
07:50:56BigMacis that admin/devs
07:51:09desrti pity the fool who doesn't include desrt in their list
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07:52:57midgey34Bg3r: do you want our time zones?
07:53:19Bg3rif you don't object to add them ...
07:53:20scorcheBg3r: JdGordon has the lease on it >_>
07:53:58Bg3ryep, i felt it :D
07:54:03*JdGordon gives up, stupid thing would add my name properly :p
07:54:21scorchegive up your lease too! =P
07:54:27JdGordoni did
07:54:29*scorche cheers
07:55:36Paul_The_NerdShould I put GMT-5 or GMT-6?
07:55:47midgey34you're central right?
07:55:52Bg3rPaul_The_Nerd: u should know better than us :P
07:56:03Paul_The_NerdWell it's not constant.
07:56:13desrtput the non-daylight version
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07:56:15Paul_The_NerdBecause we can't bloody just wake up an hour earlier, we have to call it a different time too, for no apparent reason.
07:56:18desrtie: winter offset
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07:56:32Bg3rmorning, amiconn
07:56:35desrttimezone is just an approximate mechanism to let people know when you might be awake
07:56:39desrtso it doesn't have to be perfect
07:56:56Paul_The_NerdOh, then I may as well not fill mine in.
07:57:11Paul_The_NerdMy availability is fairly close to random anyway
07:57:29BigMacpaul: your near alwaysss here
07:57:52scorcheBigMac: type paul and then hit your tab button
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08:01:26midgey34JdGordon: In your patch, all of the keydefs will be in keymaps/*insert_target*.c?
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08:02:07JdGordonye, the values they return are in action.h tho
08:02:10*JdGordon back in 15
08:02:43BigMacthank you scorche
08:03:10BigMacwhat is a dynamic playlist
08:04:12chendoa playlist that is dynamic
08:04:32BigMacthanks captain points out the obvious
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08:05:17BigMaci guess everyone is sleeping so im off to bed
08:08:50chendoa playlist that is dynamically generated?
08:08:57chendomost played songs, etc
08:09:40midkayBigMac's true colors showed themselves :o
08:09:54*JdGordon back
08:12:06amiconnHmm, drawing shifted native bitmaps is a bit tricky with the weird x5 remote bitmap format
08:12:36Bg3rscorche: GMT-7 is with Daylight Saving, yep?
08:14:13amiconnThe timezone name should tell you
08:15:47scorchei travel back and forth between utah and california
08:16:08Bg3rHCl is GMT+1, yep ?
08:16:34amiconnNot atm
08:16:52amiconnNetherlands is MET/MDT, as is germany
08:16:55JdGordonit doesnt really matter if its out by +-1 hour..
08:16:59amiconnSo GMT+2 in summer
08:17:17JdGordonyou should put a note so everyone puts the winter time in
08:17:18Bg3ri'm not GMT+2 atm too (but GMT+3)
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08:18:34Bg3rSlasheri is also GMT+1 ?
08:19:22*JdGordon and ashrida are gmt+10... we wins :D
08:19:40amiconnBg3r: No, Finland is the same timezone as you
08:19:41RaiderXok, someone explain how i compile a plugin for an ipod
08:19:46chendoGMT+10 ftw
08:20:00RaiderXsuch as this etchasketch plugin:
08:20:42SlasheriBg3r: UTC+2 (but +3 now at summer time)
08:20:46midgey34I think rotator is GMT -6
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08:23:14JdGordoneli_sherer is +3 i belive (if someone is still editing it)
08:28:33 Join LinusN [0] (n=linus@rockbox/developer/LinusN)
08:29:08*midgey34 kicks misticriver
08:30:01*JdGordon steals misticriver's wallet while he is down
08:30:04Bg3rLinusN, Bagder: the "shortcuts" for the icons doesn't work (at least %W% doesn't)
08:30:22LinusNyeah, i noticed that too
08:30:35JdGordon%Y% works fine
08:30:47JdGordonmorning LinusN
08:31:51amiconnmorning LinusN
08:31:53amiconnLinusN: Build hanging again since last night :(
08:32:02LinusNBg3r: what do you want as the %W% icon?
08:32:21*amiconn hates hanging builds with no admin around :/
08:32:27LinusNamiconn: me too
08:32:40Bg3rwarning.gif Warning, important %W%, %ICON{warning}%
08:33:11amiconnLinusN: Btw, x5 remote drawing is in the works, but not yet finished
08:33:49LinusNamiconn: nice
08:33:57amiconnI also have a lot of pending changes in other lcd drivers... mostly related to consistency
08:34:24*amiconn notices his laptop sound stopped working :(
08:34:54amiconnThat rarely happens, but requires a reboot to fix
08:34:55LinusNBg3r: try now
08:35:50amiconnLinusN: Drawing a shifted native bitmap is a bit tricky due to the weird data format (but not unsolvable; I already have an idea)
08:36:02Bg3rworks .......
08:36:03LinusNamiconn: figures
08:36:07Bg3rfscking firefox
08:36:09LinusNBg3r: goodie
08:36:44RaiderXcna someone tell me how to compile plugins for 5G ipods?
08:36:50amiconnbmp2rb needs to be extended as well
08:36:55RaiderXor link meh to the wiki for it cuz I cant find it :/
08:36:55amiconn(of course)
08:40:05RaiderXok, i dont want to write the plugins, i just need to compile the ones that other users have uploaded :/ is that what that page si for?
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08:42:04***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
08:43:39amiconnLinusN: lcd-remote-x5.c needs to implement lcd_remote_update_rect() and lcd_remote_update()
08:44:07amiconnNote that fb_remote_data for the x5 remote is short (!)
08:44:22LinusNdo you want the frame buffer in the native format?
08:44:31amiconnYes, as always
08:44:44amiconnI'll add simulator support
08:45:00amiconnA scan of the x5 remote would be nice to have for tat....
08:47:48 Quit midgey34 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
08:49:39JdGordonis there any plans to put the sim screen over the target bmp like it used to be?
08:49:53LinusNamiconn: was unable to do that yday, will try today
08:50:08LinusNJdGordon: it's still there
08:50:20ravonHmmm, accidently washed my X5 remote in the washing machine, and now I don't know if it's my remote display or the RB X5 remote support that's broken :)
08:50:31JdGordonthe bmps are still there, but it doesnt show it.. or is it just me?
08:50:54amiconnJdGordon: Start the sim with −−background
08:51:13*amiconn still wonders why this isn't the default anymore
08:51:15JdGordonoh cool
08:51:47LinusNi'm very happy with the default
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08:52:02amiconnravon: RB doesn't support the X5 remote yet, but will soon
08:52:34ravonamiconn: Thanks
08:54:05*amiconn hopes to finisuh the drawing routines tonight
08:54:36LinusNamiconn: i was thinking about the lcd drivers yesterday, and i came to the conclusion that the frame buffer should perhaps be in the lcd-x5.c file
08:54:39amiconnLinusN: The build is still hanging...
08:54:59amiconnNo, the frame buffer isn't hardware dependent
08:55:35amiconnIt will be used both for target and sim (and perhaps other remotes with the same framebuffer format, and same or different resolution)
08:56:00LinusNamiconn: no, it's not hanging, but it won
08:56:05LinusNt show until the next build
08:56:18LinusNamiconn: ok
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08:57:41amiconnLinusN: I think lcd-h100.c, and lcd-recorder.c are in relatively easy to spilt in the generic and target parts, but lcd-h100-remote.c is tricky...
08:58:13RaiderXcan any patch be applied to rockbox for ipods? or only the ones specified for ipods?
08:58:16RaiderXlike this:
08:58:33amiconnlcd-h100-remote.c uses the scroll thread both for generic tasks (i.e. scrolling) and hardware specific tasks (hot-plug lcd init)
08:59:17*amiconn has no idea how to split that in a clean way, without inventing just another thread
08:59:41LinusNamiconn: i guess the target tree driver should export a detection function which is called by the scroll thread
09:00:05RaiderXpls help?
09:00:10LinusNRaiderX: try it
09:00:40LinusNRaiderX: but chances are that the game isn't adapted for the screen resolution and the buttons
09:00:42RaiderXwell i dont wanan go through all the trouble if its not gonna work :x
09:00:47amiconnLinusN: The detection is done in a tick, but the tick must not init directly. It sends a message to a private queue...
09:00:52RaiderXthe buttons is what i was thinking
09:00:57RaiderXbut it only uses one buttons, select
09:01:02RaiderXand maybe
09:01:19LinusNRaiderX: just try it
09:01:44amiconnlcd-remote-x5.c does not yet do hot-plug detection afaics
09:01:47LinusNand post your findings in a patch comment
09:01:57LinusNamiconn: no it doesn't
09:02:04amiconn(and the spi driver looks like teh slowness)
09:02:35LinusNamiconn: yes it is slow, but i didn't want to use the asm version until i knew it worked
09:03:14LinusNasm spi is on my todo list
09:03:42amiconnIiuc the 4-gray tomato can go even faster than the monochrome one in the iriver remote
09:04:05LinusNseems so yes
09:04:31amiconnMaybe you can use the fast version for all clocks (if the wires allow it)
09:06:00LinusNwould be cool if the asm spi stuff could be reused without copying the code
09:06:56amiconnI don't think that will be possible
09:07:16amiconnThe various bits are probably on different ports
09:07:32LinusNthat can be solved with #define
09:08:11LinusNan spi-remote.c file which includes lcd-remote-target.h
09:08:25LinusNwhich has the #define
09:08:32LinusNfor the ports and pins
09:08:36amiconnHopefully there is no ticking, so you don't need a number of other special measures
09:09:33amiconnQuiescing /CS can't hurt though
09:11:30LinusNtrue again
09:14:55amiconnaway now...
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09:19:36Lynx_just got my koss porta pros, that is some bass, jesus
09:19:45Lynx_maybe a little too much
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09:36:00JdGordonno such thing as too much bass!
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09:41:23Bg3rJdGordon: see your wiki idea
09:41:58JdGordoni saw it a min ago, unless youve added another comment?
09:42:23JdGordonim not sure if logfing it is the best way to go?
09:43:31Bg3rwell, this "unknown button [combo]" shouldn't map to a known action, therefore we return ACTION_NONE
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09:46:18Bg3ralso, what happened with STD_NEXT_REPEAT ?
09:47:07Bg3rLinusN: imho this %CODE{cpp}% thingy shouldn't put a border
09:47:17JdGordondo we really need a _REPEAT for every action?
09:47:30LinusNBg3r: why not?
09:48:09Bg3rLinusN: imho it would look better...
09:48:59Bg3rJdGordon: currently it's used for not overlapping in the lists when holding the prev/next button, also in the setting's value
09:49:06*JdGordon has implemented this action stuff in about 50% of the code and is sick of it :D
09:49:40JdGordonBg3r: ah yes, we can fix that with a context define then, so we dont have 2 cases in every swicth
09:49:54LinusNBg3r: i think it looks good on larger code snippets, but maybe not on the ButtonActionIdea page
09:51:25Bg3rLinusN: i think it divides the code from the surrounding text too much
09:51:36JdGordongah! youve mangled my wiki page :D
09:51:42Bg3rJdGordon: what do you mean?
09:52:07JdGordonthe code... (i was being silly)
09:52:10Bg3r(that was regarding your previous message)
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09:55:13JdGordonOH! thats what gui_synclist_limit_scroll(lists, false); is for.. ok
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10:03:14LinusNBg3r: better now?
10:03:21Bg3rjust to say it :)
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10:06:52JdGordon:'( this patch is getting massive
10:08:13JdGordoncvs server down?
10:09:16JdGordontaking ages to start doing the diff
10:09:20LinusNbut the server has a very high load atm, i'm investigating
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10:09:28JdGordonok, ill cancel it then
10:09:38JdGordonno, it just finished really qiuckly :D
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10:21:45JdGordonwoot!!! size comparison on h300 with the patch 40-50% complete... 80bytes smaller!
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10:23:23midkayhaha. congrats.
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10:49:24Bg3rJdGordon: hehehe ;)
10:49:30 Quit desrt (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
10:49:52Jungti1234hi Bg3r
10:50:17Bg3rhi ;)
10:50:32Jungti1234long time no see..
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10:52:10Bg3ryeah, busy lately
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10:56:32Bg3rinline int do_button_check(struct button_mapping *items, int button, int last_button, int *start)
10:56:47Bg3rJdGordon: does this _really_ need to be inline ?
10:56:57Bg3rin fact, does the compiler make it inline ?
10:57:35JdGordonBg3r: i dunno, i just split it out because its there 3 times, and im working on the assumption inlined code works faster than a funciotn call
10:57:53Bg3rthis is a big func
10:57:56JdGordonyoud have to check the .a to actually see if its inlined
11:00:19Bg3ri think u should return the raw value only if it's a SYS_ event
11:01:27JdGordonit definatly is inlined... i removed the inline and the size shrunk 118bytes
11:01:36Bg3rmore ?
11:01:58Bg3rso, 200 bytes less ?
11:02:05JdGordonthanx cvs, ye
11:02:16JdGordonbut will the removing the inline slow it down?
11:02:24Bg3ri doubt it :)
11:02:37Bg3rit isn't called _so_ often
11:04:00JdGordonit can be called up to 4 times per press
11:05:13Bg3rand button press is checked HZ times/sec
11:07:35JdGordon... i guess we can benchmark it, but no point just yet
11:07:51LinusNJdGordon: where can i view the patch?
11:08:13JdGordonthe wiki page has the latest
11:08:33JdGordonis CONFIG_REMOTE_KEYPAD defined for targets without a remote?
11:10:05LinusNit shouldn't be
11:11:41JdGordoni guess that will probaly be got rid of anyway, so ill check against BUTTON_REMOTE instead
11:14:09LinusNBg3r: as long as do_button_check() isn't called by the button driver, we should be fine
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11:19:13LinusNJdGordon: i must say that this looks promising
11:19:40JdGordon:) thats what i like to hear
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11:20:17LinusNi'd like to see the keymap-h1x0_h3x0.c file
11:20:27JdGordonsure, 1 min
11:20:51JdGordondo_button_check will be called 2 times at most (3 on remote targets)
11:22:34JdGordonLinusN:"> has the patch and the .c
11:23:54JdGordonand action.c also
11:24:48LinusNsomehow i feel that get_context_mapping() could be omitted
11:25:03LinusNbut maybe it simplifies the handling of the remote buttons?
11:26:14Bg3rwhat about
11:26:52JdGordonLinusN: ye, it makes remotes simpler
11:27:19Bg3rnot having additional context per remote, but just having the remote buttons at the end and changing them with remote plugging/unplugging ?
11:27:22JdGordonas well as the rest of the keys
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11:28:14JdGordonBg3r: i thought about that, but how do you know where the end of the list is? and how many to change? also the remote context lists are only checked if the button was from the remote
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11:28:53JdGordonlook @ action.c the link above, ive added a bit of comments which might help
11:29:44Bg3rJdGordon: you know where the end of the list is the same way u know now ...
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11:31:08 Quit perpleXa (Client Quit)
11:31:37JdGordonwell hang on... whats the point? if we need to define which gets changed to which anyway, doesnt it make sense to just define it and not have to worry about changin the values at runtime (instead just change one value)?
11:31:44JdGordonthat may not have made sense
11:31:58Bg3rin fact u're right;)
11:35:34Bg3rjust a cosmetic thing
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11:36:23Bg3risn't more logical the struct members to be in the following seq
11:36:36Bg3r{ Button code, Prereq button code, Action Code }
11:37:25*Bg3r shuts up :-[
11:38:41JdGordonBg3r: actually i tinhk it should be action code, button code then pre-req but im too lazy to change it now :p
11:38:53Bg3ror that, yep
11:44:12markunLinusN: what do you mean by "Currently, Rockbox can't handle unicoded file names in the file API"
11:44:22JdGordon:'( i broke it
11:44:31Bg3rJdGordon: ?
11:44:51Bg3ri hope u don't mean the player!
11:45:17JdGordonhehe no, just the action.c code
11:45:25Bg3rheh, then it's ok :P
11:45:35LinusNmarkun: the file i/o functions only take 8-bit file names
11:45:58LinusNint open(const char* pathname, int flags)
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11:47:47Bg3rJdGordon: am ...
11:48:00LinusNmarkun: gah, maybe i'm wrong
11:48:12JdGordonBg3r: ?
11:48:16Bg3r if ((timeout == TIMEOUT_NOBLOCK) || (timeout == TIMEOUT_BLOCK))
11:48:19Bg3r button = button_get(timeout);
11:48:19Bg3r else button = button_get_w_tmo(timeout);
11:48:19Bg3r if (button == ACTION_UNKNOWN
11:48:55JdGordonye, that was my bad, should be BUTTON_NONE, fixed that
11:48:59Bg3rso, the returned value of button_get[_w_tmo] ..
11:49:03LinusNmarkun: i forgot that we supported utf-8
11:49:13markunThat's what I thought
11:49:59LinusNstill, i'm curious about the fat_direntry size
11:52:08LinusNhmmm, i remember having this discussion a long time ago
11:52:43LinusNand we decided to keep the name[256] to keep memory usage down
11:53:21JdGordonstupid uninitialized variables!! isnt gcc upposed to warn against them?
11:54:00LinusNit depends if it can detect it or not
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11:56:16JdGordonsweet, it resumes the wps on startup correctly now :) last thing to figure out is why the remote buttons dont work
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11:56:37JdGordonim such a dill!
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11:56:53JdGordonchecking ret&BUTTON_REMOTE is fairly useless :p
11:57:00 Join theli_ua [0] (
11:58:09JdGordonit works!!! the whole thing works!
11:58:27JdGordoncontectual buttons, remotes, the whole bang lot!
11:58:39LinusNway to go!
11:58:45barrywardellLinusN: I have been working on getting the H10 target up and running
11:58:49Bg3rJdGordon: upload the working version :)
11:59:07*LinusN does the button action dance
11:59:13barrywardellbut am wondering about the whole target vs #ifdef thing
11:59:17LinusNbarrywardell: goodie
11:59:32LinusNbarrywardell: i'm not surprised
11:59:44barrywardellam I best to try to keep everything in it's own dir in target?
12:00:42LinusNthe goal is to avoid conditional compilation in the firmware code, and have the target specific stuff in the target tree
12:00:53barrywardellIt seems like the iAudio is half way there
12:01:00LinusNkind of a HAL/BSP style concept
12:01:15barrywardellbut still has some conditional stuff eg. in button.c
12:01:41barrywardellthe target way seems much cleaner and easier to figure out what's going on
12:01:47LinusNyes, the iaudio is not complete, button.c and ata.c are some examples
12:02:13LinusNata.c is an example where some functions could be in the coldfire/ dir
12:03:26barrywardelli was thinking that. They were the two that I had come across.
12:04:19barrywardellI was planning on just adding #ifndef TARGET_TREE to those for the H10 but am worried that that might break the iAudio code
12:05:03LinusNi'm moving the iaudio button stuff now
12:06:19barrywardellok, great. so I should try to use target tree for everything H10 specific then?
12:06:40LinusNyes, please
12:08:02barrywardellwhat about the #defines in button.h?
12:10:56LinusNthey go in iriver/h10/button-target.h
12:11:06LinusNhang on for the x5 example, will commit soonish
12:11:15JdGordonhmm... i did cvsdo add on the keymaps folder and the files inside it but tis still not in the cvs diff?
12:11:50LinusNcvs diff -uN?
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12:13:10barrywardellLinusN: thanks. I'll look out for it and use it as a reference
12:13:16JdGordonLinusN: yes
12:13:34LinusNJdGordon: odd
12:13:51LinusN(i don't use cvsdo myself, so i don't know what could be wrong)
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12:14:14JdGordonLinusN: yes, i dont have any other choice :p
12:14:35linuxstbdiff -u3 /dev/null apps/mynewfile.c >> mypatch.diff
12:15:07JdGordonok, thanks
12:18:41 Quit spiorf (Remote closed the connection)
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12:23:07JdGordonok, the proper patch is on the wiki now
12:24:02 Quit Jungti1234 ()
12:24:46Bg3rJdGordon: really, i don't think you should return the raw value ..
12:25:09JdGordoni changed it.. it returns ACTION_UNKNOWN
12:25:35Bg3rk ;)
12:25:48Bg3ror the SYS_* part
12:26:28JdGordonye, or SYS_* or BUTTON_NONE (ACTION_NONE)
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12:27:36JdGordonhow does the ipod scrolling work in the lists? does it stop you at the end of the list like holding down on iriver does?
12:29:01Paul_The_NerdIt stops for a second, then continues though
12:29:05Paul_The_NerdYou don't have to release / stop scrolling
12:33:24midkayyes you do..
12:33:50midkayyour finger might run off the wheel slightly causing it to detect a stop/restart of scrolling but it won't wrap until such an event occurs.
12:34:09JdGordonok good, because thats how it will be after this patch :D
12:34:12midkayit's actually quite easy to fool it that way..
12:35:45JdGordonipod keymaps has been added to the wiki (untested, needs work)
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12:40:19Paul_The_Nerdmidkay: Odd, as apparently my finger slips a constant 1 second after reaching the end of the list every time then...
12:40:35JdGordonsubconsiously probably...
12:40:52midkayPaul_The_Nerd: indeed. it doesn't take long for rockbox to detect a finger release..
12:41:02midkaycould quite possibly be a small glitch or maybe it's just too sensitive..
12:41:07sharpegah. everytime i type 'rocks' i type 'rockbox'
12:41:51sharpei think my subconscious is telling me something...
12:41:54midkaysharpe: that's happened to me too.
12:42:09***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
12:42:17midkayin fact, several times when i'm typing my last name (roberts) i start typing rockbox instead.
12:42:24midkayi just did it THERE when i typed my last name even.
12:42:32Paul_The_NerdI can't write words that start with i without capitalizing the second letter.
12:42:35midkayr o c [backspace] b ...
12:42:38Paul_The_NerdiNconsiderate, iHop, etc.
12:42:59midkayiHop. that's nice.
12:43:03midkaythey should change their name.
12:43:09midkayi hop!
12:43:22sharpei hope!
12:44:06midkaythe "i-before-e-except-after-c" rule doesn't apply there.
12:44:14midkaydoes it?!
12:44:14 Join aliask [0] (
12:44:23midkayhuh. i guess it does.
12:44:30midkaythat's interesting. "conceive" looks so .. WRONG.
12:45:16midkayfirst google result for "concieve" is a bit .. weird..
12:45:19midkayAll for Maybe_Baby Trying To Concieve !!
12:45:19midkayA Very friendly supportive group for those on a Quest trying to conceive and experiencing Infertility,Secondary Infertility,Miscarriage or just looking for ... - 39k -
12:45:28midkaynever mind.
12:45:32midkaymisread that. carry on. :E
12:45:35sharpejust what you're looking for midkay... :-D
12:45:45midkay*bookmarks when nobody's looking*
12:46:10midkayi thought it said like.. "for those on a quest to experience infertility, miscarriage.."
12:46:55midkaysharpe: snag hl2:deathmatch.
12:47:26midkaywhat is unclear about that?!
12:47:31 Quit _Veseliq_ (Remote closed the connection)
12:47:43sharpetelling me to get hl2. i get it.
12:47:59midkayyeah. exactly.
12:48:03midkayso do it.
12:48:16midkaythe power of christ compels you!
12:48:20sharpei thought you meant like, something else.
12:49:06midkaysomething naughty? *can't see any possibilities of anything remotely off-topic even with his sick brain*..
12:49:09 Quit tvelocity ("Ex-Chat")
12:49:23sharpenah. just. my brain didn't really think of snag as an action.
12:49:56midkayas an adjective?
12:50:03midkayadverb? noun?!
12:50:13midkaycomplex conjugate? whatever that is.
12:50:40sharpeahah. i don't know. but it wasn't a verb.
12:50:53midkaystill. get it ffs.
12:51:17sharpeah, maybe sometime.
12:51:45midkayit's ten bucks ffs. deathmatch, that is.
12:52:23sharpemaybe i'll get it sometime today.
12:52:26 Part Paul_The_Nerd
12:52:30midkayisn't that worth your getting owned by both me and scorche?!
12:52:45midkayyou'd pay like fifty bucks for that ffs.
12:52:52sharpeyes, yes i would.
12:53:13midkaywe'll kick your ass on my map. :D
12:53:37midkayhaha. wow.
12:53:41midkaylooking back on older revisions.
12:53:47sharpethen i'll make my cube map that you can walk though.
12:54:22midkaythat's exactly 3 weeks ago.
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12:54:51sharpei've never seen such horrid mapping.
12:54:55midkayshot from about the same angle from like last night.
12:55:01midkayhaha. it's called beta/WIP you idiot.
12:55:16sharpehah. i'm just kidding.
12:55:37midkayeat me. :(
12:56:44midkayi have older ones.
12:57:30midkayhere. older still.
12:57:33midkaydifferent angle though.
12:57:39midkay*holds on to old screenshots*
12:58:28sharpemakes me cringe.
12:58:36midkayinsensitive clod.
12:58:46sharpeindifferential jerk.
12:58:58midkayi care. you don't
12:59:04midkayyou;re the indiferna tjerkl
12:59:10midkaytry to correct the spelling on that one!
12:59:14sharpeyou know i'm just kidding.
12:59:37midkayi hate accidentally touching the volume knob on this headset's little inline remote.
12:59:44midkayit flies upwards. never downwards. :(
12:59:53aliaskI hate those knobs full stop
13:00:13midkayvery useful, just too touchy. :\
13:00:30sharpetoo touchy? hmm... sounds like it could be taken in the wrong context.
13:00:36aliaskWhats wrong with adjusting the volume on the player, or on the computer?
13:00:45midkaynot even *i* thought of that sharpe. you are a tard.
13:00:54aliaskIt just adds another thing to screw up in my opinion
13:00:56midkayaliask: too much hassle on the computer, i guess..
13:01:04midkayi just leave PC volume on full.
13:01:09midkayi never use these for my iPod.
13:01:13sharpei'm a tard. thanks. not even a complete retard. thank you midkay.
13:01:20midkaynot a problem sharpe.
13:01:24midkayyou get some credit for.. you know.
13:01:28midkayi don't know.
13:01:33aliaski'm used to my volume wheel thing on my keyboard... :D
13:01:33midkaysticking around when nobody wants you to.
13:01:42midkayaliask: haha, ah..
13:01:46sharpeyeah, i apparently do that a lot.
13:01:50midkayin fact i have some volume buttons here..
13:01:55midkaybut just feels nicer to use a knob.
13:02:02sharpejust the buttons, they're not connected to anything.
13:02:05midkaysharpe: we love you, jkjkjkjk.
13:02:08aliaskbtw that map is pretty good looking
13:02:12midkayyou idiot sharpe.
13:02:34midkayaliask: thanks. still majorly working on it.. plenty of changes from that version in fact. :) working on it now.
13:02:38midkayif sharpe wasn't such a distractor.
13:02:46sharpeit's what i do best.
13:02:57*aliask shakes fist at sharpe to blend in with the crowd
13:03:11sharpeeh, i only distract midkay and scorche.
13:03:34aliaskand now me too!
13:03:37aliaskDAMN YOU
13:03:50aliask(from homework...)
13:04:08aliask(good work)
13:04:15midkayand. haha.
13:04:18sharpei haven't slept, i have nothing to do, all apparently i'm doing is fixing my schedule for this year.
13:04:23midkayat i clicked the "go to a random user profile page" button.
13:04:27 Quit TeaSea (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
13:04:30midkayand i got "error: profile does not exist!"
13:05:22sharpesounds like a really bad joke.
13:05:43sharpeespecially the exclamation mark.
13:05:49midkayhmhm. me is amused by some statistics.
13:05:53sharpeand the fact it was totally off topic.
13:05:56midkayhaha. it wasn't a direct quote ffs.
13:06:38midkayneed to go to bed soon/
13:07:13sharpei should've gone nine hours ago.
13:07:35midkaymore of that "going to bed" and ten minutes later send-random-message-to-#rockbox crap?!
13:08:10sharpeno, that was a sleepless night where i had nothing to do.
13:08:31sharpeand i did not send random message crap. i was involving myself in the conversation.
13:08:54midkayreally. i didn't notice anybody acknowledge your thoughts, message or presence in any way.
13:08:59midkay... either time.
13:09:29midkayi love you.
13:09:55midkayha. i knew it.
13:10:43midkaysilly little man.
13:11:04LinusNwow, moving the button code defines to the target tree turned out to be a major hassle...
13:11:22sharpeLinusN: the centralizing it?
13:11:30aliaskTechnical issue? Or just time consuming?
13:12:33LinusNwell, the button codes are moved to an include file in the target tree, e.g firmware/target/coldfire/iaudio/x5/button-target.h
13:12:54LinusNwhich means that the include path must be changed in all makefiles
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13:13:18barrywardellLinusN: I know. I was looking at it last night. Thanks for doing that.
13:14:09LinusNwell, it would have to be done sooner or later
13:15:30barrywardellhave you committed it to cvs? I don't see it on the activity list on the homepage.
13:19:47aliaskHow polite.
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13:26:26solexxDo the people running already know that Twiki is exploitable again?
13:27:03solexx(couldn't find it in today's IRC log, so I thought I might ask)
13:27:28midkayi don't think so...
13:27:34Bg3rsolexx good to let us know, but try on private next time ...
13:28:14midkaynot a big deal.. i don't think spammers/hackers search IRC logs to find out that there's a potential exploit in some way :)
13:28:44Bg3rLinusN, Bagder and Zagor are the people, responsible for the server
13:29:07linuxstbI trust they subscribe to the appropriate Twiki mailing lists...
13:30:18 Quit theli_ua (Remote closed the connection)
13:31:20Mikachusolexx: use the exploit to update twiki :P
13:32:08solexxI am not even sure that is vulnerable, but I don't fully understand the advisory (since I have never touched Twiki except by using it)
13:33:22LinusNsolexx: are you referring to the bin/configure POST exploit?
13:35:39Jungti1234Rockbox website is slow. is it so me only?
13:35:52Jungti1234ah, TWiki.
13:36:35JdGordon<LinusN> well, the button codes are moved to an include file in the target tree <- couldnt you just do a #include for each target in button.h? then thats the only file that will need changing?
13:37:27solexxConfigure script allows arbitrary shell command execution (CVE-2006-3819)
13:37:35LinusNJdGordon: that's exactly what is being done, but button.h is included by many files, for example all the plugins
13:39:03solexxLinusN: in other words: yes :)
13:39:12JdGordon.. leave it till after actions are implemented and then the only file that woud need to include the button.h is the keymap file for that target
13:39:44LinusNsolexx: we weren't vulnerable to this, as we already have the configure script restricted
13:40:19 Quit Jungti1234 ()
13:40:31LinusNJdGordon: the include path will probably need to be changed anyway
13:40:40solexxFine. After the first(?) break-in last year I always think of Rockbox when I hear about Twiki...
13:40:58LinusNsolexx: thanks for the heads-up
13:44:02solexxmy pleasure
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13:46:48Mikachuhow much free space should i keep on my / partition in rockbox?
13:47:44JdGordon0.. it should be full of music
13:47:50JdGordonand games
13:48:05Mikachuwell, the games need some space for highscores and rockbox uses some small control files
13:49:07Mikachui guess a few kbs is enough
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13:52:49Bg3rbut one fat32 cluster size on a 30GB partition is about 32kb ...
13:53:59Mikachufortunately my ipod nano has 4kb clusters
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14:10:04JdGordonho hum.. im bored again
14:15:10LandusGotta question.
14:15:30LandusJust today, there's a few songs that skip when played.
14:15:46LandusWould deleting them, then putting them back on be a decent idea?
14:16:06 Quit spiorf (Remote closed the connection)
14:17:20linuxstbI don't think that would help. What player do you have?
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14:20:58barrywardellLinusN: Are you going to commit that patch to cvs or hold off like JdGordon suggested? If so, could you please mail me a patch to work off of?
14:21:36linuxstbbarrywardell: Did you manage to find any other interesting stuff connected to the GPIO pins apart from the buttons?
14:22:08barrywardelli found whether usb was connected or not
14:22:32barrywardelli've documented all the gpio stuff I know so far in the wiki
14:22:33LinusNbarrywardell: i will commit it
14:23:20barrywardellI also found a way to turn the system off using the gpio
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14:42:11***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
14:43:59JdGordondoes party mode only affect the pause on the remote? im looking at the code and it seems the check for party mode in only if WPS_RC_PAUSE is defined?
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14:44:13JdGordon... or im too tired and should be sleeping instead of fiddling
14:44:17Davide-NYCI Mmmm in the House?
14:44:24Davide-NYC*Is Mmmm in the house>
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14:46:30*JdGordon is baffled by some of the wps code... it really needs a good cleanup :p
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14:59:00LinusNJdGordon: what do you feel remains in the button handler?
15:00:00JdGordonLinusN: i tihnk its mostly done, we need to figure out the final list of ACTION_STD_ and we should make sure it actually works on the heavily button deficiant targets
15:00:27LinusNand of course add keymaps for all targets
15:01:10JdGordoni dont mind doing the convereting of the code by myself, but i cant do button mappings for any other target except iriver
15:01:26LinusNof course
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15:01:39 Quit spiorf (Remote closed the connection)
15:02:38JdGordonbecause its a huge commit, can we branch the cvs untill its working then patch the MAIN branch against the changes? so people dont complain about no working cvs builds for however long the whole changeover takes?
15:03:18LinusNi think we should commit the whole shebang at once
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15:04:11LinusNi mean, the old button_get() code still works, doesn't it?
15:04:27JdGordonok, initial wps stuff is in
15:04:57JdGordonye, the main problem is not haaving mappings for any targets except iriver and ipod atm
15:05:10JdGordoni mean, it potentially could go in tonight if we had them
15:05:36dionoea_workpeople with targets which don't work will fix those :)
15:06:05JdGordonthe problem is that untill that is fixed rockbox is completly unusable
15:06:21dionoea_workthen they'll fix it rapidly :D
15:06:39*linuxstb makes mental note not to do cvs update today...
15:07:13Bg3rlinuxstb: no, u're wrong, better do it _now_ ;)
15:07:49linuxstbI'm too busy cursing portalplayer and dreaming of having a datasheet for the PP5020
15:08:31JdGordonso... volunteers to do keymapping on the recorder (i have a tiny bit for that one), player, ondio and x5?
15:08:34dionoea_workwhile you're talking about PP5020, has anyone started work on using both cores in rockbox ?
15:09:05dionoea_workJdGordon: i can do the recorder when i get back from work (i just bough a brand new usb AA cable)
15:09:16linuxstbdan_a mentioned yesterday that he was playing with that.
15:09:23Bg3rJdGordon: unfortunately i can't help u with this, as i have only h340
15:10:03dionoea_worklinuxstb: neat :) 1 audio thread on one core and all the other threads on the other core ? or something more complex ?
15:10:34Bg3rJdGordon: in fact the target's manual can help u a bit ...
15:10:41*linuxstb wants more Rockbox devs hacking the PP5020...
15:11:04JdGordonBg3r: yes and no
15:11:19Bg3rlinuxstb: bring a .pdf and i'm sure there will be volunteers
15:11:22*dionoea_work would be willing to help (i never did any asm before ... but it shouldn' be too hard)
15:11:33linuxstbBg3r: I've got lots of PDFs...
15:11:52JdGordonpp5020 is in the 4g riught?
15:11:57Bg3rJdGordon: i said a bit ;)
15:12:22*JdGordon has access to a 4g that needs a new hdd that i can play with
15:12:36JdGordonbut the only asm ive ever done was mips and i wasnt very good
15:14:10JdGordonanyway.. back to the buttons
15:14:54JdGordonoh, is it safe to use the same define for the standard select and goto-browser in the wps? its the same on iriver but others?
15:16:46JdGordonactually. change that... I tihnk the wps should not use any standard defines (possibly the same for fm and rec)
15:16:54linuxstbJdGordon: Yes, all the 4g and later ipods (including the minis, Nano and 5g) use either the pp5020, pp5021 or pp5022, and they all seem to be compatibie with each other.
15:18:19Bg3rlinuxstb: in fact, what are the differences between them (if it happens to know ...)
15:18:53dionoea_worklinuxstb: btw, what work (apart from the dual core stuff) needs to be done on the pp5020 ?
15:21:24linuxstbBg3r: The PP5022 uses less power and has more IRAM compared to the PP5020. No information at all is available on the PP5021, but it was launched at the same time as the PP5022.
15:22:31linuxstbdionoea_work: The dual core stuff is more or less completely understood. I think the only thing we don't know is how to independently set the speed of the two CPUs (which I think is possible only to a limited degree anyway).
15:23:07Bg3rhm, i'm wondering if there is any chance PP to open their datasheets if apple refuses to work with them in the future...
15:23:16dionoea_workso that's like feedning it random stuff and seeing how it reacts ? or reading apple firmware dissassembly ?
15:23:45linuxstbBut we generally know almost nothing about the PP5020 - it's all just guesswork. For example, I'm trying to get rolo working reliably at the moment, and it works fine if I don't enable the CPU cache in Rockbox, but with the CPU cache enabled, I can't get it working reliably.
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15:27:55JdGordonok, wps is 90% done, with iriver mapping
15:28:35dionoea_worklinuxstb: how did the ipodlinux guys and you find what is currently known ? guessing ? reading firmware ?
15:29:23JdGordonsomething must be wrong... after adding the wps code we are down 500 bytes from cvs.. :D
15:29:45linuxstbI found out what I know by reading the IPL source code (and some guesswork). I suppose the IPL people read the firmware and guessed.
15:30:24goffa*yawn* 2 more days of coming it at 7am
15:30:39dionoea_workis everything on ?
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15:32:21linuxstbThere and in the IPL and Rockbox source...
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15:40:28JdGordongrr.. the wps code is shocking, and the actoins code is not reliable at all for the ffwd/rwd actions :'(
15:40:56LinusNlovely :-)
15:41:21JdGordoni dont think it will be all that painful to fix, just have to figure out the problem
15:41:39LinusNprobably because the wps enters a new state when doing ff and rew
15:42:44JdGordonye, i tinhk its something like that
15:43:34JdGordonalso the code isnt easy to follow, where is the logic in the ffwd case falling through to the rewind case?
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15:48:36LinusNbarrywardell: i have now committed the x5 button driver changes
15:49:18barrywardellLinusN: great thanks. I'll have a look through it now
15:49:23goffajust code cleanup or did something change?
15:49:36LinusNcode cleanup
15:50:01goffathat works too :)
15:50:10goffai keep hoping for this
15:50:41goffainstead of the menu i'd go for right does queue and play... and navi does the same thing it always has
15:50:51*LinusN mumbles something along the lines of "dream on"... :_)
15:51:11LinusNgoffa: i agree that it would be a nice feature
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15:51:22goffayeah i know... frustrating when you can't code :)
15:51:59goffathe irony is that it would be much easier to implement than say playlist catalog, voice menus, doom, etc
15:52:10JdGordonhmm... i tinhk the problem was i got carried away with removing lines i removed some needed lines accidently :p
15:52:35LinusNgoffa: not necessarily easier
15:52:37goffaso all i can do is beg and whine ;) or bitch and moan.. take your pick.. he he eh
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15:53:05Bg3rJdGordon: hehe, see the diff then
15:53:42JdGordonhmm.. actually, i dont tinhk so
15:53:54*JdGordon cant follow this code @ midnight :p
15:54:27JdGordonill do one last diff so you guys can get some targets done while i sleep
15:54:43Bg3rwhat happened with the WPS ?
15:55:32JdGordonit works except prev/next track and seeking in a track isnt very reliable
15:57:40LinusNgoffa: for example, the patch in the tracker assumes that all targets have a Right button, which they don't
15:58:39LinusNit's not a big deal, we just won't offer the quick-queue feature on targets that lack buttons
15:58:53LinusNbut the patch is not cvs-material because of this
15:59:18pekujaI'm having a bit of a problem with my iriver H320 running CVS-060602 of Rockbox. It seems like the battery drains rather quickly even when the player is turned off. Is this a known issue, a misconfiguration or just my battery going bad?
15:59:47 Quit |apo| (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
16:00:16LinusN06-06-02? that's oooold!
16:00:39JdGordonstill.. battery draing while its off?
16:00:56JdGordonactions.diff is just under 100kb..
16:02:02LinusNpekuja: you should really consider upgrading to a later version, since your version has the dreaded USBOTG bug which literally *eats* battery
16:02:31pekujaLinusN, heh, could be that then I guess
16:02:36pekujaLinusN, but while it's turned off?
16:02:51LinusNwell that could be a sign of your battery going bad
16:03:06pekujaI'll have to test how long it lasts while actually using it
16:03:19LinusNbut upgrade before you do that
16:03:43goffaLinusN: yeah... i think it would be better to have it committed anyway for those that can utilize it.. since it doesn't take anything away from existing players
16:04:03goffait just adds functionality to those that can use it
16:04:24goffalike not all players have recording or fm radio
16:04:33LinusNin the current state, i suspect it doesn't even compile on all targets
16:05:09goffayeah... probably not.. but isn't there a way to disable that for targets that don't support it?
16:05:44LinusNi told you
16:05:53LinusNit's not a big deal, we just won't offer the quick-queue feature on targets that lack buttons
16:06:07LinusNbut someone has to:
16:06:13JdGordon*cough* can be added easily once actions are in :D
16:06:17LinusN1) update the patch so it applies to the current CVS
16:06:44LinusN2) make sure it isn't included on targets that don't have enough buttons
16:07:25 Join YauM [0] (
16:08:25YauMI have some pb with a IAUDIO X5 and voices
16:08:31pekujaLinusN, I'll update tonight I guess. Is there a new version coming out anytime soon though?
16:08:47YauMcan someone help me please ?
16:08:49LinusNpekuja: every day, as usual
16:08:52pekujaLinusN, I remember 2.6 was being worked on last I checked, but it seems like they're talking about 3.0 on the mailing list?
16:09:04pekujaLinusN, well yeah, but I mean a new release version :-P
16:09:09LinusNpekuja: use a daily build
16:09:16pekujasure sure
16:09:17LinusN3.0 is postponed
16:09:30LinusNYauM: what is your problem?
16:10:18YauMLinusN: when I presse the menu bouton while a song his playing rockbox freeze
16:10:37LinusNYauM: while music is playing?
16:11:10YauMescuse my very bad english
16:11:48YauMOn the screen I have :
16:11:59YauMat 000058FF
16:12:24YauMand after i must hold the supply button 10 sec
16:13:10YauMThis is the same with french and english voices
16:13:24YauMwith the today build
16:13:30YauMand the blending edge build
16:14:04YauMI make something wrong ?
16:14:16LinusNi don't think so
16:14:41YauMIt is a knew bug ?
16:17:16JdGordonalrighty, im going to bed, gnite all... someone port the archos' buttons :D
16:17:20 Quit JdGordon ("Konversation terminated!")
16:18:20YauMIt is a known bug
16:20:18LinusNYauM: i don't know, we have quite a few reports on voice problems
16:21:04YauMyou think I must report the bug in the bug traker ?
16:24:28LinusNYauM: do this:
16:24:45LinusN1) upgrade to the latest version, and make sure you extract the enture zip file
16:25:31LinusN2) find a way to repeat the bug, so we developers can make it crash
16:25:39LinusN3) report in the tracker
16:25:48*amiconn is back, and spots more target tree work
16:27:26YauMok but I must try with the daily build or the blending edge release ?
16:27:46LinusNYauM: daily build is preferred
16:28:19YauMok i will try
16:28:43LinusNthank you
16:29:29LinusNgtg, cu later
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17:01:06barrywardellwhere in the build process is ipod.c selected to be built?
17:01:18barrywardellit's in bootloader
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17:08:39linuxstbbarrywardell: bootloader/SOURCES
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17:10:24MoosHello !
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17:13:47midgey34hmm, it seems my cygwin is stuck in a loop
17:15:38midgey34I replaced a bitmap in apps/plugins/bitmaps/native and it keeps building that directory over and over
17:16:03linuxstbTry a make clean - the bitmap build system doesn't always work as it should...
17:16:22linuxstbBut I've never heard of that before.
17:17:31midgey34well, its the exact build I built last night except I replaced one bitmap that someone on misticriver posted
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17:19:03Benedettohi all
17:20:43midgey34well, I fixed the problem. The new bitmap was 16bit instead of 24
17:21:18Knasbollendo ya know if one can have both linux and rockbox in the same iPod?
17:21:33midgey34yes, you can
17:21:38Benedettoare there French speaking people who work on the rockbox project ?
17:23:27BockBilboany of you is using the rockscobbler plugin?
17:23:30BockBilboi mean.. script
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17:23:49linuxstbKnasbollen: Just install ipodlinux first (making sure you use the IPL loader2 bootloader), and then you just need to download the correct for your ipod, and unzip to your FAT32 partition.
17:24:00_apo_Hm... would it be possible to partition the iPod and put an OS on one partition that a PC can boot?
17:24:05Knasbollenok thx
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17:25:23Lynx_BockBilbo: where would i get that script from?
17:27:21BockBilboworks good for submiting tracks to if you have the audioscrobbler plugin for rockbox
17:27:39BockBilbothough, i have a little problem with it when making it work automatically
17:28:42BockBilbowhen pluggin my ipod to my computer, it executes the script twice because i have 2 partitions on my ipod (one for music and the other for IPL)...
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17:28:52BockBilboand that seens to be working poorly
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17:34:51amiconnlinuxstb, midgey34: Such build loops may happen if a source file has a future timestamp
17:35:27*amiconn should read backlogs completely before commenting :/
17:35:56midgey34it had a future timestamp as well
17:36:04midgey34two hours from now actually
17:36:18amiconn16bit _should_ be no problem for bmp2rb
17:36:55midgey34ok, well saving it to 24bit created a new timestamp anyway so all is good
17:37:01amiconnBut if a source file has a future timestamp (regardless of the source file type), 'make' falls into a loop because the condition will be never fulfilled
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17:37:17amiconn'touch' is your friend in this case
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17:40:07lexwhy does my my music stop for a while when i use ie. oscilloscope when i play music on my photo?
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17:44:44_apo_Probably because it doesn't get decoded fast enough
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17:49:43lexthat's what i thought too
17:49:52lex-too :o
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18:33:35dionoea_workI was wondering: can someone add me to the Developers list on flyspray so i can accept bugs/fix them ?
18:34:34midgey34dionoea_work: you have a 5G ipod then?
18:34:41dionoea_workyeah :)
18:34:48dionoea_workand an old recorder
18:34:58midgey34well, then by all means good luck fixing that bug
18:35:10dionoea_workdid you already give it a try ?
18:35:39dionoea_work(i was planing on doing bitmaps for color targets anyway)
18:36:02midgey34no, I didn't have a chance. I spent my time working on my plugins
18:36:33midgey34it works on the simulator though
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18:37:38dionoea_workyeah, that's weird
18:38:22dionoea_workwhat plugins did you do btw ? (just curious)
18:39:04midgey34umm blackjack and pegbox, both are on the tracker
18:39:22midgey34blackjack has two bugs though that are rather annoying
18:39:56dionoea_workthe pegbox description looked like it could be fun ... i'll have to give it a try :)
18:40:07midgey34please do
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18:50:20barrywardellhow does the 'MKFIRMWARE' part of the build process work?
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18:50:40barrywardellBagder: do you have any thoughts about how to incorporate mi4code
18:51:05barrywardellI have a new build target for the H10 done apart from that
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19:04:56Bagderbarrywardell: for now I think you can just require it to be in the path
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19:25:38aarondare there certain AAC files known to break rockbox?
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19:58:51x1jmpis it possible to read samples from the microphone/line-in into a buffer?
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20:10:58filReveryone idle'ing i guess. :/
20:11:33filRbut perhaps someone can help me anyway .. i suddenly can't see any of the files on my 5g ipod. i can however see the directories.
20:11:41filRwell, that's the whole point of irc. to idle. :)
20:11:51aarond_yeah I dont get it either
20:12:06aarond_even after I got cable I dont idle unless I leave in hurry
20:12:35filRi even joined a special idle room .. where you get points for saying nothing.
20:12:41filRbut it grew boring after a week or two. :)
20:12:55pekujaI've played that
20:12:57pekujait was too hard
20:13:08filRwell, i didn't have the skills. :(
20:14:15filRso, anyway, no one here has heard of something similar happening to anyone? ie. suddenly only seeing no files == empty directories on the device? :)
20:15:03filRw00t, i am unique.
20:15:10aarond_I have a different problem, but guess I'll just have to re-encode
20:15:23filRcodec problems?
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20:15:31aarond_rockbox doesn like some AAC files I just made for some reason
20:15:51aarond_and I cant stand the gaps in regular ipod firmware
20:15:59aarond_the gaps seem worse than usual
20:16:03filRgapless playback ftw.
20:16:15filRhm, well, i don't really like aac though.
20:16:40aarond_so I load it into rockbox which I havent used in a while, then head out to work and pfftttttt it crashes when I try playing them
20:16:47aarond_I like it a lot more than mp3
20:17:18aarond_just like the day before I only had a few files downloaded and they were flac, I put them on because I thought it supported flac, but nope
20:17:21filRto proprietary. (well, mp3 isn't much better)
20:17:34filRhm, rockbox does actually support flac.
20:17:47aarond_maybe not on nano
20:17:47filRat least on my ipod i can play flac. or could. now i just can't see them anymore. ;)(
20:18:04filRhm, it should be able to play flac on nano as well afaik.
20:18:11aarond_cant see them on the ipod or on the computer
20:18:20 Join obo [0] (
20:18:23filRonly on the ipod.
20:18:38filRthat is what is so weird about it.
20:18:41aarond_might be file extension problem? thats all I can think of
20:19:24obofilR: hold down menu to bring up the quick screen - what's the view setting at the bottom?
20:20:15filRhm, the view setting? under general settings?
20:20:46obowell, quick screen is easier to get to - I can't remember where it is in the normal menu :)
20:20:54filRha, ok, found it.
20:21:07filRi knew it was something simple like a borked setting.
20:21:27filR(the weird thing is - i even formatted / reinstalled rockbox. guess it didn't change the setting oO)
20:21:52obonope, the settings are stored in an otherwise unused sector on the harddrive
20:22:40filRreally? neet. pretty weird place to put them though, isn't it?
20:23:10oboyup - there is talk that it will be moved to a config file system at some point
20:23:24k8tosorry that was me expressing shock
20:23:38amiconnk8to: why?
20:23:49oboyeah, that's what I was thinking...
20:24:00amiconnThere are reasons why the settings are stored as they are stored
20:24:02k8tothere is a filesystem available!
20:24:10filR*starts copying 30gb music again after formatting his ipod*
20:24:45amiconnk8to: (1) The settings saving is older than write support in the filesystem. (2) Using a binary sector is faster
20:25:34k8tois it necessary to access the settings very often?
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20:25:39amiconnBut the versioning starts to become annoying, and .cfg won't be that bad
20:25:59amiconnA few settings will stay binary though (but in a file)
20:26:07amiconnk8to: Yes, e.g. resume info
20:26:19k8toa bin file shouldn't be slower really
20:26:23k8toif you store the offset to it etc
20:26:46k8tomore hassle to write that sort of thing though
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20:27:40amiconnThe file can simply be kept open if it turns out we need the speed
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20:29:07aarondanyone know why certain aac would break rockbox?
20:29:38k8toaarond: slightly corrupt files? faad has a bug?
20:29:42obothe current aac decoder is a bit flakey
20:29:51aarondoh ok
20:30:03aarondnever seen it happen before
20:30:09aarondmight have been the encoder I used
20:30:23filRaarond: itunes aac encoder?
20:30:23aarondthere seems to be a larger than usual gap between tracks thats all
20:30:35k8tothat is probably a cputime thing
20:30:38aarondin apple firmware I mean
20:30:51aarondso I wanted to hear them in rockbox but they all make it crash
20:31:06aarondno I used a little freeware app to convert from flac
20:31:32oboI think I remember someone saying that itunes encoded ones worked... (but I could be wrong)
20:31:33k8toconsider ogg for higher quality for filesize ;P
20:31:37aarondits called Max
20:31:52filRoh well, if you converted them yourself, a dirty way around the problem would probably be encoding them as ogg (or mp3). :D
20:31:53aarondwell yeah I want to but it will eat more battery yes?
20:31:59filRi also use max ..
20:32:21aarondI just got it cause I needed something to convert from flac and it sounded good
20:32:25filRk8to: i wouldn't go so far as to say ogg vorbis has the better quality when compared to aac. :)
20:32:34k8tofilR: i was comparing it to mp3
20:32:41k8tosorry if that was unclear
20:32:44filRk8to: in that case i agree with you.
20:32:45oboI think the current aac decoder will use more battery than mp3/ogg
20:32:51aarondI just dont want to use mp3, aac and ogg sound better
20:33:04aarondhmm ok, I might have time to convert to ogg before work
20:33:17k8tocertain faad uses much more cputime on my x86
20:33:20k8tothan libvorbis
20:33:25aaronddamn what am I thinking, my computer is too slow
20:33:33filRaarond: quite frankly, i doubt you, or any of use, or anybody, will here the difference once you go 192kbit. (especially on a portable device)
20:33:38aarondI might do as mp3 just for now
20:33:39k8tomaybe that is kind of meaningless though
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20:34:47k8toat ogg 160kbps on my samsung player with e6i earphones, i can notice some artifacting
20:34:54k8tobut it is not obvious at all
20:35:23amiconnaarond: ipod?
20:35:32aarondI dont hear artifacts in ogg at low bit rates, just sort of a fuzziness but I like it more than the mp3 crap
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20:35:46aarondnano yes
20:35:47amiconnaarond: On ipod, ogg is more efficient than mp3 in rockbox
20:35:48k8toyeah i meant "deviation from the original"
20:35:52k8tonot "specifica artifacts"
20:36:03aarondwish I had time, blah
20:36:09k8toamiconn: because of the decoder used?
20:36:24linuxstbamiconn: It may be closer now with the change to -O for libmad. I (or someone) need to test the effect of -O on other codecs.
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20:36:39filRk8to: that is why i try to get as much flac as possible. then i don't have to start worrying about whether or not i might be hearing encoding artifacts.
20:36:54k8tofilR: i use a 1 gig player
20:37:08filRk8to: well, that should get you about .. 2-4 albums. :D
20:37:16k8tofilR: woo
20:37:51*amiconn is annoyed by his non-working sound and goes to reboot
20:37:54aarondI would use flac for now if it would play them
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20:38:37filRk8to: space is definelty an issue. but i just recently bought a 30gig ipod and am currently too lazy to reencode music (from flac to lame -V 4) before copying it onto the ipod.
20:38:39linuxstbaarond: There is a patch to improve mp4 parsing on the patch tracker. If you don't want to patch and compile Rockbox yourself, I think senab's "experimental builds" include it. I would be interested to see if that patch fixes your problem.
20:39:00linuxstbNone of the devs use AAC, so the codec is a little abandoned.
20:39:12k8tofilR: i encoded my stuff at 160kbps largely because it hought the cputime was being exhausted on the device, but it turns out it the oggs generated for trance music for some reason give the player indigestion
20:39:31k8to(native firmware)
20:39:41k8towhich is fine because trance is not very good music
20:39:50aarondnever had a problem with any AAC files before so I thought it was weird
20:41:09linuxstbHow did you encode these one?
20:41:32aarondusing Max
20:41:51aarondset it to AAC 192
20:41:59aarondI mean MP4
20:42:12filRmax uses the core aac encoder btw. (different to the itunes aac encoder)
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20:42:17aarondthe first time I set it to AAC something and itunes wouldnt play it
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20:42:34linuxstbAs I said, there is a patch on the patch tracker which hopefully will help you. But the patch needs people to test and give feedback.
20:42:52aarondso I started over with mp4 and the ipod plays them but with nasty gaps
20:43:10aarondoh ok
20:43:10linuxstbYou mean Apple's firmware plays with gaps, or Rockbox?
20:43:28aarondapples, rockbox crashes or something
20:43:52aarondshould my nano play flac?
20:44:20linuxstbAssuming they are .flac files, and not FLAC in a .ogg file.
20:44:22goffathat's like hauling a motorhome with a vw beetle though :)
20:44:30goffawell storage wise
20:44:32goffaplays them fine
20:44:46aarondthey say .flac
20:44:54linuxstbAnd what does Rockbox do?
20:46:00aarondsays there is no file or something after I try playing, could be because the rest of the torrent wasnt done? but the files I tried were so it doesnt make sense
20:46:09aarondIm going to try it again now
20:46:42linuxstbAre you sure the files were completely downloaded?
20:46:48filRdo you have flac installed on your system? you could try checking the flac files with "flac -t song.flac" in the console.
20:46:51amiconnTorrents aren't done in order, and depending on the client, the files might be all mixed up until the download is complete
20:46:53filR(go flac crc!)
20:47:18amiconnAt least the original client does that
20:47:58filRyou could also try playing the flac file with vlc/cog/... (but that will not necessarily ensure that the file is not damaged)
20:48:15aarondthey were downloading one bye one and I put ones on that had stopped
20:49:16aarondit plays now :)
20:49:55aaronddamn, do I deal with gaps or wipe half the thing to hear it without gaps?
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20:54:45*ender` yawns
20:56:57goffai 2nd that
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20:58:10maquishello all.
20:58:11 Join bluebrother [0] (
20:58:26maquisfirst off, thanks to all the people who've worked on rockbox. i just installed it this morning and i like it
20:59:06maquisi do have one question, though... i've copied my music in, and it's organized into little directories by genre. is there a way to tell it i want to shuffle through all the music rather than just one directory-worth?
20:59:26maquisi'm not seeing that in my quick glances through the manual
20:59:44bluebrothermaquis, generate a playlist with all tracks and shuffle that list.
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20:59:58maquisbluebrother: ok... so there's no way to do it without a playlist? ok
21:00:12*maquis tries to come up with the easiest way to generate a playlist with everything in it
21:00:14gamerD00dmaquis, if you ar ein the browser, click and hold your select button, and then go to playlist menu item, then simply click insert into playlist
21:00:26maquisgamerD00d: cool
21:00:32bluebrotherno −− when playing a directory you actually create a playlist (the dynamic playlist)
21:00:33goffagamerD00d: beat me too it :)
21:00:36goffaer to
21:00:46aarondrockbox working on 3G ipods alright?
21:00:54maquisgoffa, bluebrother, gamerD00d: thanks a ton :)
21:00:56goffabluebrother: that's been a bone of contention with me .. lolo
21:00:59goffaer lol
21:01:08goffahaving an extra o problem today aparently
21:01:26linuxstbaarond: Yes, to some degree. The codecs are running even slower than on the newer ipods.
21:01:52aarondprobably wouldnt be worth it for my friend
21:02:24aarondwas just telling him about the gap problem
21:03:58aaronddecided that I will listen to flac today :)
21:05:08filRflac are nice. :)
21:05:50goffalossless what else can you say :)
21:06:55 Join scott666_ [0] (
21:07:16 Join Bger [0] (n=bager@rockbox/developer/Bger)
21:08:05 Quit x1jmp (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
21:08:12 Part maquis
21:09:27 Quit Hulex ()
21:10:10aarondas long as it doesnt eat my whole battery on the way to work
21:10:12 Join joe2 [0] (
21:10:20 Part scott666_
21:10:27aarondI dont know why anyone would want it on a portable device
21:10:50aarondI was hopping someone upped it in flac just so that I could convert it to whatever I wanted
21:11:20aarondlast years convert was mp3 only and I could tell the difference from the previous one I got in AAC
21:11:26 Join nudelyn [0] (
21:12:00linuxstbYour battery might even last longer playing FLAC - the Rockbox FLAC decoder is very efficient, and the Nano has no hard disk to keep spinning up.
21:12:16goffayeah.. lot of truth to that
21:12:26 Quit Criamos (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:12:47 Join webguest26 [0] (
21:12:59 Quit webguest26 (Client Quit)
21:13:06goffaof course on a nano you'd better REALLY like the 10 or so songs :)
21:13:36goffaprobably more like 50.. but you get the drift
21:14:11filRaarond: because i am too lazy to convert it. also flac playback is very efficient (but it has to read a lot of data)
21:15:18aarondwhich is why I worry about battery
21:15:32aarondthough I only need it for an hour for the trip and maybe a little at work
21:16:22aarondis flac the best of its kind? Im guessing yes due to the popularity
21:16:37aarondI dont usually use it, just wanted it for the above reason
21:16:52filRaarond: well, it is the most popular. there isn't really a "best"
21:17:10aarondsince its lossless
21:17:11filRthere are ones with better tags, and ones with better compression. but it is the most wide-spread and supports the most plattforms.
21:17:31aarondI havent tried apple lossless but wouldnt be like AIFF or Wave?
21:17:47filRhm, not it would be like flac basically.
21:18:03aarondcompressed just a little?
21:18:12aarondwith not loss of quality, ic
21:18:31aarondI used to keep up with formats but I kind of lost track years ago
21:18:40filRhm, probablly compressed better than flac.
21:19:00filRbut .. who cares if the 40mb file is 1mb larger or smaller? :)
21:19:03aarondapple lossless?
21:19:08aarondyeah really
21:19:29aarondI'll stick with AAC for my nano, but maybe I will back up CDs on dvd some day
21:20:13filRif you want to do that, i really do recommend going lossless. harddrives are cheap these days - and you can't go wrong with lossless.
21:21:33aarondusually my CDs only get ripped once and then go in a box though
21:21:53aarondIve been meaning to convert again to AAC or something but its too much work
21:21:59aarondcomputer is too slow too
21:22:31filRwell, i enjoy having everything on my linux server. that makes it easy to decode and reencode musik (if i need it for my ipod for example).
21:23:04filRbut you could do the same with osx. write a couple of automator scripts (or shell scripts). :)
21:23:06 Quit akaias (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:23:34 Quit YouCeyE (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:26:39aarondneed more HD space
21:27:03 Quit filR (Remote closed the connection)
21:27:04aarondeverytime I try to clear some, there is something mysterious still hogging space
21:28:08 Join filR2 [0] (
21:31:18aarondwow no gap, crazyness
21:31:43*aarond thought the ipod gap problem was going to be gone years ago
21:31:48aarondI dont understand why its still there
21:32:06 Join dan_a [0] (n=dan-mirc@
21:32:12 Quit JoeBorn ("Leaving")
21:32:42 Join LandusMikain [0] (
21:32:51Galoisapple (or any company for that matter) doesn't care about small minorities
21:32:55 Join pixelma_ [0] (i=pixelma@
21:33:16 Quit hannesd (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer))
21:33:17Galoisand the set of people who care about gaps is a very small minority
21:33:19aarondyeah, too many people dont care, but it bugs me pretty bad
21:33:29aarondits weird that sometimes its almost gapless on my nano
21:33:58aarondI havent used rockbox in a while, used to update every monday
21:34:07bluebrotherdamn. Seems like resuming after usb disconnect isn't working anymore.
21:35:09filR2aarond: yeah, gapless playback is quite annoying on the (original) ipod. or the lack of it.
21:35:10bluebrotherhas someone also this effect? H120, stop playback, then connect to USB. After disconnect the player tries to resume (wps comes up) but nothing happens. Audio thread shows zero for the pcm buffer
21:35:11 Quit midkay (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
21:35:30 Join hannesd [0] (
21:35:40 Join midkay [0] (n=midkay@rockbox/developer/midkay)
21:36:46aarondif I knew why certain files were almost gapless in regular ipod firmware I would fix as much as I could
21:37:05aarondmost of the time its for stuff that doesnt need it but I like the way they play closer together
21:37:30aarondI swear the AAC I made yesterday have larger gaps than usual
21:40:21 Quit Landus (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
21:41:20 Quit pixelma (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
21:41:20 Nick pixelma_ is now known as pixelma (i=pixelma@
21:45:38markunaarond: perhaps it depends on how much of the last frame is left at the end of the track
21:47:34aarondhmm ok
21:54:08 Join sando [0] (i=lolsteam@
21:57:08 Join Lucky_devil [0] (n=19555779@
21:57:29Lucky_devilrockbox is FANTASTIC!
22:00:39 Quit Poka64 ("nite all")
22:00:49Ribsrockbox is the shit \o/
22:01:34Lucky_devil :wtf:
22:02:58aarondI need to get back to using it
22:03:23aaronddont remember why I stopped, I think I wanted to let it improve some more for a while or something
22:03:29aarondeven though it was working fine
22:04:04 Join JoeBorn [0] (
22:05:11Lucky_devilIS any cue-sheet support?
22:10:54 Quit dan_a (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:13:35 Join barrywardell [0] (n=barrywar@
22:15:13Lucky_devilbut why?
22:15:28Lucky_devilis it so hard?
22:15:34 Join linuxstb_ [0] (
22:15:45midkaynobody's done it yet.
22:15:50midkaysimple as that.
22:16:49Lucky_devil :(
22:18:35 Join _FireFly_ [0] (
22:19:41scorcheLucky_devil: thewre is a discussion about it on the forums if you care to search
22:22:27 Quit JoeBorn ("Leaving")
22:22:29 Join Benni [0] (
22:23:10midkaywake up.
22:23:12midkaylet's play. in like 2 sec
22:24:34 Join lamed [0] (
22:27:10dionoea/home/dionoea/rockbox/sh1/lib/gcc-lib/sh-elf/3.3.4/../../../../sh-elf/bin/ld: region FLASH is full (/home/dionoea/rockbox/rockbox/builds/archos/apps/rombox.elf section .rodata)
22:27:10 Quit lamed (Client Quit)
22:27:19dionoeaweird ... is gcc 4.x.x mandatory ?
22:28:41 Part Benni ("User is away.")
22:31:36linuxstb_For SH, I think so, yes. You also need to apply a patch to get it to work with Rockbox.
22:31:49amiconndionoea: Read the wiki, and update your sh-elf-gcc
22:31:58dionoeathat's what i'm doing :)
22:32:11amiconnThe recommendation is gcc 4.0.3, rockbox patched
22:32:44 Join JazzBone [0] (
22:32:47dionoeai just had my old crosscompile env available ...
22:32:51dionoeabut that didn't work :)
22:33:32amiconnReason: We use -Os now, and there's a bug (in all sh-elf-gcc versions I tested) that produces invalid jumptables with -O2, -O3 and -Os under certain conditions.
22:33:52amiconngcc 4.0 and up do a better job with -Os than 3.x
22:34:05dionoeaok, thanks for the explanation
22:36:57amiconnI reported the jumptable problem to the gcc team, and I know *what* the proper fix would be, but not how to implement it. The patch is safe, but not 100% "clean"
22:37:26dionoeaand they still didn't fix it upstream ?
22:37:52amiconnNot sure... up to 4.1.0 there was no fix
22:38:06amiconnMaybe the sh maintainer is busy/unreachable/whatever
22:41:18 Quit bluebrother ("Leaving")
22:42:26***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:46:51 Join dan_a [0] (n=dan-mirc@
22:48:36dionoeayay, it worked :)
22:49:15*dionoea updates a 2 year old rockbox build
22:50:24 Join Hulex [0] (
22:50:35amiconndionoea: Prepare for the shock... ;)
22:51:40 Quit aarond ()
22:56:39filR2does anyone use / audioscrobbler with rockbox?
22:57:10oboyes :)
22:58:03filR2w00tness. i assume there is a patch i have to "install"? probably i will need to upload the .scrobbler files manually?
22:58:06dionoeaold bugs/patches/feature requests should be cleaned from the tracker (if they don't apply anymore)
22:58:55obofilR2: yes, there is a patch - you need to either setup a dev enviroment, or use an experimental build that has the patch
22:59:18obothere is a perl script to upload the .scrobbler.log file to
22:59:28filR2u, crap. that sounds like no fun. (compiling rockbox)
22:59:52markunit's a lot of fun!
23:00:32 Nick filR2 is now known as filR (
23:00:36obopatch is here:
23:02:31filRi think i will try it out tomorrow. :)
23:02:46dionoeais the ipod 5g the only target with slow LCD code ?
23:03:17amiconnNo, but the one where it hurts most
23:03:32amiconn(because the LCD is so large.... too large for a DAP imho)
23:03:39dionoeaok, thanks
23:03:55*filR likes his 5g screen. :(
23:03:58linuxstb_Too big for music, and too small for video...
23:04:13filRvideo .. now that is a pointless feature.
23:06:37 Quit TeaSea ("Leaving")
23:06:44 Join TeaSea [0] (
23:06:48amiconnlinuxstb: Do you know the archos AV700... that is a video screen size where it starts to be fun.
23:06:58amiconnBut already too large to be really portable
23:07:43filRbut when or where would one watch videos on a portable device (and not a laptop)?
23:08:26amiconnVideo on the small screens is imho a nice gimmick, even usable a bit. But far from the 'must have' it seems to be according to the request we get
23:08:58 Join lee-qid [0] (
23:09:02dan_aI think if I had video I'd use it on the 3 hour ferry trips I have to make quite regularly
23:09:13dan_aBut it isn't a killer feature at all for me
23:09:36dionoeathe screen is kind of small to watch a movie
23:09:38amiconnfilR: * longer runtime than a laptop. * less hassle
23:09:43filRi agree. now if you could stream tv/videos onto your portable device on the other hand (eg. on your cell phone) ..
23:09:53filRamiconn: true.
23:09:56amiconnThe AV700 has a TV tuner
23:10:47dionoeaanalog TV or DVB-T ?
23:11:22 Part barrywardell
23:11:46filRi have even seen cell phones with tv tuners (dvb i believe).
23:11:59dionoeathat's neat :)
23:12:26dionoeacountry=us ... do they have DVB-T in the USA ?
23:12:45amiconnI've switched to english before posting the link
23:13:57linuxstb_dionoea: No, they have their own digital terrestrial TV system - ATSC
23:14:21 Join EbErT [0] (
23:16:51linuxstb_The AV700 looks interesting though - capturing the original DVB-T transport streams is a nice feature.
23:18:15 Quit JazzBone ("User is away.")
23:18:36amiconndionoea: RED...
23:18:52dionoeaRED what ?
23:19:12amiconnRed builds
23:19:17pekujaapparently after 3 hours of being turned off, my iriver has drained 7% of its battery
23:20:02 Quit _FireFly_ ("Leaving")
23:20:17amiconnMonochrome targets abviously cannot set foreground/background....
23:20:28dionoeai'm fixing it :)
23:21:05pekujacan anyone tell me whether rockbox even technically can have anything to do with the battery drainage while the device is turned off?
23:21:25pekujaI'm not trying to blame anybody, I just want to know if my battery is dying on me.
23:21:42pekujaI never noticed this drainage before I installed Rockbox, but that could be a coincidence.
23:21:59 Join barrywardell [0] (n=barrywar@
23:23:05Bagderpekuja: no it can't
23:23:59gamerD00dpekuja, i could have sworn RB had not fully shut off on me once and caused my batt to drain, but hasn't happened since
23:24:23dionoeaamiconn: should be fixed now (tested on recorder sim). Thanks
23:24:41dionoea(you should have a bot that reports failed builds here)
23:25:04Bagderwell, you should always check the build page after commits
23:25:32pekujagamerD00d, interesting
23:25:46pekujaanyways, I'm suspecting the battery is dying
23:26:04pekujaI wish there was a definite way of knowing that though :-/
23:26:27pekujaare the batteries on these things (iriver h3xx) replacable?
23:27:03Bgerpekuja: yep
23:27:31Bgerat least u can "upgrade" it to one with higher capacity
23:27:35gamerD00da way to test
23:27:43gamerD00dis to boot either into disk mode or original firmware
23:27:53pekujawhat's disk mode?
23:28:00gamerD00di say diskmode assuming you're talking about an ipod, sorry
23:28:19gamerD00dare you talking about an ipod?
23:28:26pekujano, I'm talking about an iriver
23:28:32gamerD00dk, then disregard that
23:28:40gamerD00dtry the original firmware again is all i can suggest
23:29:08Bgerpekuja: but reset its settings from the menu
23:29:10gamerD00di did hear from the devs at one point that the implementation on some devices isn't thorough for charging due to not fully understanding some of the pins
23:29:27pekujaBger, which settings?
23:29:41Bgerthe original firmware's settings
23:29:51Bgerrockbox messes them sometimes
23:30:24gamerD00d? never heard of such a thing, however i only have ipod experience with RB
23:31:15BgergamerD00d: i'm talking about iriver h3xx
23:31:35Bgerdionoea: green
23:31:45dionoeaBger: yeah, i saw that :)
23:31:47dionoeathanks :p
23:32:24 Quit Bger ("Leaving")
23:32:27pekujadamn, what was the method for booting to the original firmware? ;-/
23:32:38pekujaah, never mind
23:35:31dionoeaipod mini is supposed to be a 4level gray LCD right ?
23:36:43 Quit dpassen1 ()
23:37:12dionoeathe sim is b&w
23:37:28dionoeai'll check that i provided the right configure options
23:37:29amiconnNo it's not (at least it shouldn't)
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23:38:46 Quit TeaSea ("Leaving")
23:39:45 Join Kohlrabi [0] (
23:40:46dionoeahum ... /me forgot to run make install which explains why it was still showing the old plugin's b&w version
23:45:22*barrywardell looks at his bricked h10
23:45:47Bagderwhoa, what's going on?
23:46:06barrywardelldunno, just can't get the disk to mount any more
23:46:26barrywardelli suspect maybe a corrupt partition
23:46:44barrywardellmy computer still detects the device and partition but can't mount it
23:47:25Bagdertried remaking the fs?
23:47:41barrywardelli'm gonna try
23:48:09barrywardellshould i just try run fdisk and see if i can get it working?
23:48:42Bagderwell if the partition is there, what's fdisk gonna help you with?
23:48:54BagderI was more thinking of doing a fresh mkfs
23:49:01Bagderon the partition
23:49:08barrywardelli'll try that first
23:53:16 Join webguest38 [0] (
23:53:39 Join freqmod [0] (
23:54:48webguest38Hi - does anyone know if there's a manual for 3g iPods?
23:55:09Bagderafaik, there isn't (yet)
23:55:15Bagderbut try the 4g one
23:55:30Bagderthey should be more or less identical anyway afaick
23:55:32 Join crave [0] (
23:55:37webguest38Thanks - is it worth reading the manual for 4g etc?
23:55:46BagderI think so
23:55:53webguest38Cool, thanks!
23:56:10barrywardellno luck with mkfs
23:56:21barrywardellit can't find any partitions
23:56:44Bagderthen fdisk sounds required
23:56:53barrywardelljust tried fdisk - "Unable to open /dev/sda"
23:57:06 Quit crave (Client Quit)
23:57:25Bagderand dmesg says it is sda?
23:57:36 Quit _Lucretia_ ("Leaving")
23:58:38barrywardellyeah, but there are a load of buffer I/O errors

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