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#rockbox log for 2006-08-05

00:01:55 Quit obo ("bye")
00:02:15freqmodlet's talk about something else: is there interest for a patch to fix image loading on 64 bit simulator hosts?
00:02:20Bagdersaturday, time for bugs and patches mails
00:02:55linuxstbOnly 104 open bugs - and 110 people in this channel...
00:03:14freqmodi could fill it as a bug ;) then wi'll get 105 open bugs
00:03:42Bagderfile the patch instead
00:04:03linuxstbFeels odd that an ipod bug is the third-oldest...
00:04:17freqmodthe only problem is that it uses the unix header stdint.h to get (u)int(16|32)_t
00:04:45linuxstbWhat about inttypes.h ?
00:05:17freqmodwhere is that <rockboxroot>/fimware/export/?
00:05:45freqmodfound it
00:06:24bluebrotherI created that patch some hours ago, maybe someone wants to have a look at it? http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/5770
00:07:17freqmodthat's not the same
00:07:43linuxstbbluebrother: Yes, I saw that. m3u8 seems a bit of a pointless extension though...
00:08:09{edf}sshymn only works with itunes up to version 5.01
00:08:14bluebrotheryeah, maybe. I thought I just add it for the sake of completeness.
00:08:27bluebrotherat least it doesn't hurt (imo)
00:09:28linuxstbAlso, why does a utf8 file need a BOM?
00:10:04Bagderwhile(!morning) sleep();
00:10:40bluebrotherlinuxstb, it doesn't need it, but some editors tend to add one. So we should be able of handling it.
00:10:53linuxstbBagder: Hope you don't wake up every second to check if it's morning...
00:11:16bluebrotherI just found skip_utf8_bom(char*) in gwps-common.c
00:11:47{edf}ssnudelyn pics plz
00:14:48freqmodPatch: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/5771
00:16:40 Quit Paul_The_Nerd (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:16:43 Join Paul_The_Nerd [0] (n=Main@wirelessdata-031-031.mycingular.net)
00:17:11Paul_The_NerdCellphones do not make ideal modems.
00:17:34 Quit lukaswayne9 ("Ex-Chat")
00:17:49 Join Kohlrabi [0] (n=Kohlrabi@dslb-082-083-155-216.pools.arcor-ip.net)
00:17:54 Join netmasta10bt [0] (n=torment@pool-72-64-144-248.tampfl.fios.verizon.net)
00:24:38 Quit Febs ("CGI:IRC")
00:26:01 Quit freqmod ("Konversation terminated!")
00:27:14^jhMikeS^I asked this earlier but noone here at the time said they knew: Why do a while(1) sleep() at poweroff instead of asm("halt") for the x5? There doesn't seem any point to giving up control in power_off() that I currently know about.
00:29:28^jhMikeS^I mean yield() not sleep()
00:33:54 Join gwylion [0] (n=de9b941e@labb.contactor.se)
00:34:32gwylionHello...
00:34:56gwylionI need a hand, and was wondering whether anybody could help me.
00:35:32Paul_The_NerdGo ahead and ask whatever question you may have. If those around can help, they often will
00:36:03gwylionSorry, I think I might have just found the answer... :) I'm trying to install Rockbox on my iRiver H320, from a Mac.
00:36:36 Part Paul_The_Nerd
00:36:47 Quit bluebrother ("'night!")
00:37:20gwylionThe Rockbox site didn't seem to have much info on it... I downloaded the source code file. I compiled scramble, descramble and mkboot
00:37:35gwylionI descrambled the hex file to a bin file successfully.
00:38:02gwylionBut when I tried to patch it using mkboot, I got an error: rockbox-2.5/tools/mkboot H300.bin bootloader-h300.bin new.bin => Bus error
00:38:35gwylionAny ideas?
00:38:39linuxstbAh - don't use the rockbox-2.5 source - that's extremely old. Get the latest source - either the daily build or cvs build.
00:39:58gwylionAaah! Thank you! :) I'll try again.
00:40:17gwylionBRB.
00:41:50 Quit _FireFly_ ("Leaving")
00:42:01 Join TCK [0] (n=tckocr@85-210-30-167.dsl.pipex.com)
00:42:25 Quit {edf}ss (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:44:16linuxstb^jhMikeS^: I'm afraid I've got no idea either... But I can tell you that on the ipods, that code is never reached - the pcf50605_standby_mode() shuts the ipod down and never returns.
00:49:12gwylionBrilliant. Thanks linuxstb. mkboot works now. :)
00:51:10gwylionAnd I've scrambled it successfully, ending up with the right checksum. Thanks again!
01:00
01:04:58gwylionAll installed... Now I've just got to learn how to use it.
01:04:59gwylion:)
01:05:07gwylionBye.
01:05:19 Quit gwylion ("CGI:IRC 0.5.7 (2005/06/19)")
01:05:39***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:07:20 Join falconfox [0] (i=falconfo@c-67-165-155-168.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
01:07:49falconfoxis there a way to make the scroll-wheel go faster for the ipod color, it takes forever to get to the bottom of the alphabet
01:08:58linuxstbThere's a patch in the patch tracker which tries to implement that. Some of the ipod experimental builds available in the forums include that patch if you don't want to compile Rockbox yourself.
01:09:41falconfoxok cool
01:10:04falconfoxdo you konw what the patch is called?
01:11:27linuxstbNo, but a search for "scroll" or "scrollwheel" or "clickwheel" should find it.
01:11:41falconfoxalright, i found it
01:14:13 Quit mkey (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:14:28thegeekbah, I want a 6gb sandisk sansa e250;P
01:14:51 Join mkey [0] (n=mkey@pD9E36BA1.dip.t-dialin.net)
01:15:02thegeekat 6gb flashplayers are starting to get usable
01:15:08netmasta10btthats the e270 :P
01:16:32netmasta10bti hear they've got a 2gb microSD out now too
01:16:43 Join BHSPitLappy [0] (n=steve-o@adsl-66-142-188-142.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net)
01:16:54Mikachui want to plug in a 200GB usb hard drive to my nano
01:19:21linuxstbYou're not the first...
01:20:53 Join meshuga [0] (i=meshuga@c-71-231-141-145.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
01:21:13meshugaso i'm trying to put rockbox on my 3g ipod. I had an archos before, and love it. I've copied it over, and now my screen is white
01:21:18meshugathe bootlaoder booted fine
01:21:23meshugait looked good, then went white
01:21:32meshugaif i hold it at a tilt, i can barely see rockbox
01:21:35meshugano buttons do anything
01:21:36meshugaany ideas?
01:22:16meshugai used linux to put it on
01:22:19meshugai'll try it in windows
01:22:43linuxstbLinux should work fine...
01:23:04meshugawork fine for what?
01:23:10meshugaoh, to load it? nope.
01:23:10linuxstbInstalling Rockbox.
01:23:22meshugait gave me the error above :(
01:23:27meshugaany ideas?
01:23:31Mikachuyour deduction seems a bit strange
01:23:41meshugamy deduction?
01:23:50Mikachublaming linux
01:23:50meshugai didnt make any judgements. i just followed directions.
01:23:55meshugai didnt blame linux.
01:24:13meshugai never said linux caused the fault, i just figured i'd try windows.
01:24:21meshugado you guys have any other ideas?
01:24:26meshugastock is fine.
01:24:37meshugaipodlinux didnt work either, so it could be the ipod (i got it for free)
01:24:39BHSPitLappyit's more of a pain-in-the-arse to do it on windows than in linux.
01:24:41linuxstbYou haven't given us much to go on.... Which bootloader did you download and install?
01:24:52meshugahttp://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IpodInstallationFromLinux
01:24:56meshugafollowed these instructions
01:25:06meshugai used bootloader-3g.bin
01:25:15meshugadunno which one that is..
01:25:38meshugaand yes, i have a 3g. i know cuz there is buttons in the middle, instead of just the wheel (very easy indicator)
01:25:50linuxstbIt's definitely not a 1g or 2g?
01:26:19linuxstbThere's only one developer with a 3g, and he's not around at the moment...
01:26:21meshugaoh, i dunno actually
01:26:28meshugai just went off the pics on rockbox..
01:26:32meshugahttp://www.rockbox.org/download/
01:26:39meshugaonly one thats similar is a 3g
01:27:02Mikachubut 1g and 2g aren't represented
01:27:15meshugais the process different for those models?
01:27:20linuxstbSo it has four buttons in a line under the LCD?
01:27:28meshugayessir
01:27:38linuxstbThen that's a 3g.
01:28:16linuxstbCan you see any messages from the bootloader when it boots?
01:28:40meshugayes, the bootloader doesnt have any errors
01:28:53linuxstbBut the messages are displayed clearly?
01:29:09meshugayup
01:29:14meshugaand then i see rockbox logo fine
01:29:23meshugathen it like leaves backlight on as strong as possible
01:29:26meshugaso its hard as hell to see shit
01:29:48linuxstbThen it would seem the bootloader is installed fine. The rockbox logo means that Rockbox itself has been started, so that part is working as well.
01:30:23 Quit falconfox ()
01:30:28 Part pixelma
01:31:06linuxstbAll I can suggest is coming back tomorrow and see if dan_a is around - he's our only 3g developer.
01:31:32linuxstbBut it doesn't seem to be an installation issue - just Rockbox not working on your ipod for some reason.
01:31:39 Quit mkey (""Welcome to IRC; Where men are men, women are men and little girls are FBI agents!"")
01:31:48meshugayea it actually comes up
01:31:52meshugabut the backlight is just on full blast
01:32:14meshugaso i have to look at it at an angle
01:32:28BHSPitLappybut it appears correctly if you look at an angle?
01:32:38linuxstbHave you looked to see if there is a setting to reduce the brightness? (I've no idea if there is one)
01:32:39BHSPitLappyyou just need to know how to change the contrast??
01:32:40meshugayup
01:32:47meshugalinuxstb: i'm trying to find it
01:32:49meshugayes pls
01:32:55meshugaits hard to find when looking at an angle :)
01:33:09BHSPitLappyoh, but your buttons don't work you said.
01:33:13BHSPitLappybummer.
01:33:14meshuganope my buttons work now
01:33:17meshugait finally came up
01:33:18BHSPitLappyoh
01:33:21meshugatook like 3 reboots
01:33:30BHSPitLappythen look through settings
01:33:35BHSPitLappy(the LCD category I believe)
01:33:35meshugaand it finally moved past the rockbox logo. the odd part is, the first logo on bootup and the bootloader looks great
01:33:37Mikachui would guess display->lcd
01:33:41meshugaheh i cant read the settings very well
01:33:55BHSPitLappyget glasses?
01:34:01Mikachutry booting with the hold switch on, maybe rockbox decided there were saved settings?
01:34:05meshugawooot it was constrat!
01:34:10Mikachunever mind then
01:34:22meshugaBHSPitLappy: heh dude, its cuz the constrat by default is totally off
01:34:26meshugamy vision has 0 to do with it :)
01:34:42meshugaconstrast was like 30
01:35:03meshuganow its at 48 and i can read txt now, yay
01:37:05netmasta10btbagder: still around?
01:37:32BHSPitLappyso does everything else work fine, music, etc, meshuga
01:37:44linuxstbnetmasta10bt: He said goodnight about 90 minutes ago.
01:37:50netmasta10btk −− thx
01:38:44 Quit spiorf (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
01:40:15meshugawell, the wheel is like insanely less sensitive in rockbox as apple firmware
01:40:19meshugais there something is adjust for that?
01:40:30BHSPitLappyI believe so.
01:40:34meshugasweet
01:40:53meshugalike when i rotate my finger, it moves one line, at the most.
01:42:19Bgernite;)
01:42:20 Quit Bger ("Leaving")
01:44:15netmasta10btne1 know of a good hexeditor for linux
01:44:49meshugahrm i dont see any wheel options to adjust for sensivity
01:44:56linuxstbnetmasta10bt: Do you need to edit, or just view?
01:45:04netmasta10btedit
01:45:16linuxstbThen no... But please let me know if you find one.
01:45:21meshugai've used shed before
01:45:39netmasta10btlinuxstb: i have one from my dos dayz called zipzap .. i use it under dosbox
01:45:52meshugain dos i used debug :)
01:46:07meshugashed is ok
01:46:14netmasta10btdebug :-P
01:46:16meshugathere was a really good hex editor but i forgot what it was
01:47:40 Quit Nibbler (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:49:31 Join Febs [0] (n=medifebb@207-172-122-81.c3-0.rdl-ubr4.trpr-rdl.pa.cable.rcn.com)
01:49:55lodesinetmasta10bt: try khexedit
01:50:09netmasta10bti dont have X on this box though :(
01:50:09meshugahedex
01:50:12meshugahexed
01:50:15meshugathats what i used to use
01:50:23netmasta10btis it curses?
01:50:28meshugalinux.maruhn.com/sec/hexed.html
01:50:35meshugayea so is shed
01:50:38lodesiwell, khexedit is a no go then :P
01:50:51netmasta10btgettin shed now... i'll give it a whirl
01:50:55meshugaso the wheel is definitely waaay less sensitive as ipod firmware
01:51:16netmasta10bttheres no ui setting?
01:51:19 Quit daurn|afk (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
01:51:36meshugai couldnt find anything related to it
01:52:34 Join Nibbler [0] (n=sven@port-212-202-193-252.dynamic.qsc.de)
01:52:49netmasta10btmeshuga: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/5377
01:54:05meshugahrm thats a v4 patch and i got a v3
01:54:09meshugai wonder if it'll apply
01:54:50 Quit Nibbler (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
01:55:49 Join Nibbler [0] (n=sven@port-212-202-193-252.dynamic.qsc.de)
01:56:08netmasta10btmeshuga: looks like it works w/3g or 4g
01:56:46 Quit BHSPitLappy (Remote closed the connection)
02:00
02:01:01 Join BHSPitLappy [0] (n=steve-o@adsl-66-142-188-142.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net)
02:02:48^jhMikeS^linuxstb: Sorry wasn't here earlier but caught it in the buffer. Thanks.
02:03:23^jhMikeS^BTW: It works just fine with a simple halt.
02:09:27 Quit Kohlrabi ("Quit")
02:10:47meshugasweet i'll download the src and recompile :)
02:11:20 Quit secleinteer ()
02:11:55 Quit lee-qid (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:12:07 Join secleinteer [0] (n=secleint@70.230.151.69)
02:13:08 Quit lodesi (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:13:27 Join scott666 [0] (n=scott666@c-71-195-12-129.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
02:13:32 Part scott666
02:13:37netmasta10btvhce looks like a decent curses hexeditor http://www.grigna.com/diego/linux/vche/
02:14:12netmasta10btkeys dont seem to work quite right under putty/ssh though
02:14:51Mikachudoes it stream the file or try to load it into ram?
02:14:56 Join lodesi [0] (n=lds@d02v-89-83-242-50.d4.club-internet.fr)
02:15:11 Join infamis [0] (n=4b039841@labb.contactor.se)
02:15:17netmasta10btnot sure
02:15:17meshugado i just plug my ipod in running rockbox and it should come up as a usb mass stroage device right?
02:15:27meshugaor do i have to use the ipod firmware and disc mode?
02:15:29Mikachuediting a 2GB file in the latter type of hexeditors is not fun :)
02:15:50netmasta10btMikachu: i bet, luckily this is only 356k
02:18:01 Join bondolo [0] (n=mike@dsl081-053-164.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net)
02:19:13linuxstbmeshuga: I don't think the 3g port detects a USB connection - so you have to manually reboot to disk mode.
02:20:51 Quit Nibbler (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
02:21:58 Join Nibbler [0] (n=sven@port-212-202-193-252.dynamic.qsc.de)
02:22:21meshugaoh ok, no biggie
02:22:34meshugai'm just used to how rockbox worked circa 2002 when i used it on my archos :)
02:26:14 Quit matsl (Remote closed the connection)
02:26:22linuxstbWell, the 3g port is only a few weeks old...
02:26:36meshugaohh really? i didn't realize
02:26:51meshugasometimes when it reboots it stay at the 'logo' screen for awhile too
02:26:58meshugashould i submit some bug reports?
02:27:00meshugaor just wait it out
02:27:02linuxstbWell, audio playback started working a few weeks ago. Other ipods got sound in about January this year.
02:28:15linuxstbmeshuga: Maybe talk to dan_a about them first.
02:29:45meshugai'll definitely try to remember to bug him about it
02:39:33 Join Jungti1234 [0] (n=jungti12@124.60.8.152)
02:40:16Jungti1234hi
02:40:42 Join cowmilk2 [0] (n=ubunt2+x@S0106000f66308462.vf.shawcable.net)
02:40:59cowmilk2 doesn't rockbox mean that my iPod's battery will be drained more quickly-er?
02:41:34 Quit nudelyn ("At Argon, we're working to keep your money.")
02:41:38 Join nudelyn [0] (i=nudel@dyn-62-56-86-157.dslaccess.co.uk)
02:42:03Mikachuyes, it will use a bit more battery
02:42:35linuxstbBut it's worth it...
02:43:23cowmilk2"a bit" only?
02:43:49cowmilk2you see, i've got a _few_ ogg audio and wma audio that i'd like to listen to
02:43:58linuxstbSome test results are here: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IpodRuntime
02:44:06linuxstbRockbox doesn't support wma yet.
02:44:50cowmilk2so what should i do to get to listen to wma on my iPod?
02:45:02linuxstbConvert them to another format.
02:45:05Mikachuor give someone here a lot of money
02:45:40linuxstbSomeone (not here) is working on a wma codec for Rockbox, but no-one has any idea if/when that will be working.
02:47:18netmasta10btanyone else working on e200
02:47:42linuxstbI don't think so.
02:47:55linuxstb(just Bagder and the mysterious MrH)
02:48:00netmasta10btheh
02:48:18netmasta10btwell it appears that the 'BL' that is built isn't really a BL but a firmware the way we are loading it
02:48:30linuxstbYes - we know that.
02:48:44netmasta10btoh ok, i guess the terminology threw me off
02:48:58netmasta10btwish i new that a bit ago :)
02:49:18linuxstbIt's how Rockbox works on a lot of targets - the original firmware's bootloader loads the Rockbox bootloader (thinking the Rockbox bootloader is the original firmware), and then the Rockbox bootloader will load either Rockbox or the OF.
02:49:33netmasta10btahhh
02:50:22netmasta10btok, cuz bagder mentioned a bit ago today that after i load a new PP5022.mi4 to recover i might have to reload the original BL −− but that is not the case
02:50:41netmasta10btthe BL does not get touched
02:51:15linuxstbI don't know the details on the Sansa.
02:51:28netmasta10btwell u knew more than me :)
02:51:49linuxstbWe're just looking at it from different directions.
02:52:49 Quit BHSPitLappy (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:54:20infamisOT: Is your Son a Hacker? http://www.adequacy.org/stories/2001.12.2.42056.2147.html (pretty funny)
02:56:09 Join spiorf [0] (n=spiorf@host68-143.pool8250.interbusiness.it)
03:00
03:05:19 Join ShadowdogMU [0] (n=Brock@cpe-65-28-252-205.woh.res.rr.com)
03:05:42***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
03:10:24meshugaohh 192kb skips occasionally on the 3g
03:10:48meshugaanyone else notice that?
03:11:33meshugaman, this makes me wanna buy a nano.
03:13:54 Quit lightyear (Remote closed the connection)
03:15:44ShadowdogMUWhy?
03:15:53 Quit spiorf ("Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)")
03:15:59 Join spiorf [0] (n=spiorf@host68-143.pool8250.interbusiness.it)
03:16:05ShadowdogMUI have skipping on my 5G while listening and looking for a new song
03:16:32 Nick excitatory_ is now known as excitatory (n=excitato@CPE-70-94-13-227.wi.res.rr.com)
03:17:10Mikachui have no skipping, yay me
03:17:52 Quit lodesi (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
03:18:03ShadowdogMUiPod?
03:18:30Mikachuyeah, i made the decoded audio buffer bigger than the file buffer, i have a nano so there is no disk to spin up
03:18:48Mikachui would have to scroll through lists like crazy for 20 seconds to make it skip
03:18:57ShadowdogMUImpressive
03:19:11ShadowdogMUSo why does it skip on Rockbox but now default?
03:19:13ShadowdogMUnot on*
03:19:42Mikachuwell, apple knows exactly how it works, we have to guess
03:19:50Mikachuand the rockbox code isn't very optimized for ipods yet
03:19:58Mikachuand also, the ipod has two cpus but rockbox only uses one
03:20:05ShadowdogMUo.O
03:20:15ShadowdogMUThat's not fun, plans to utilize both in the works?
03:20:28Mikachudan_a is working on it
03:21:23ShadowdogMUGood to know
03:21:41ShadowdogMUSo in the end, will Rockbox be optimized to make use of battery life more efficiently?
03:21:53Mikachuyeah, i hope so at least :)
03:22:09ShadowdogMUI really hope someone adds video support
03:22:23ShadowdogMUVideo Support, and optimized battery life and I would be happy
03:22:33Mikachuthe video hardware is even less publically documented
03:23:02ShadowdogMUGreat, that basically means less change of it working with Rockbox, eh?
03:23:08Mikachuyes
03:23:09ShadowdogMUchance*, can't type tonight
03:23:52ShadowdogMUOk, I lied, I want accessory support as well, because I am pretty sure switch firmwares often can't be great on my battery life
03:25:14sharpeShadowdogMU: well, perhiprial support depends on an undocumented protocol, so until someone figures it out, we're pretty much in the dark about it...
03:26:46ShadowdogMUfigures, after my iTrip comes in, I'll have to see what is more versatile, running Rockbox or Apple primarily
03:27:11ShadowdogMUit might be best for me to run Apple all the time, and switch to Rockbox when I want the "ohh ahh" factor, games, and a new look
03:27:20ShadowdogMUhaven't had time to play around with the Rockbox EQ though
03:27:42sharpeyou can always just get an fm transmitter that isn't dependant on an ipod...
03:28:00Mikachuor get a car radio with line-in
03:28:03ShadowdogMUI try not to use any though, more work on the processor = less battery life and in Rockbox's case, probably more skipping
03:28:04sharpeindeed.
03:28:16ShadowdogMUtoo late, already bought my iTrip
03:28:27ShadowdogMUjust went to the store, but they didn't have it in white, figures, so they are shipping it to me
03:28:30sharpeeh. not too late to sell it. :)
03:29:10ShadowdogMUheh.
03:29:30sharpei actually need to get new earbuds...
03:29:44*ShadowdogMU has 2 pair of iPod headphones
03:29:46Mikachujust get a sharpe with linein
03:30:02sharpeyep. i work just as well.
03:30:52ShadowdogMUSo I've wondered this, if you go into iPod diagnostics mode, it tests "Line in", is there hidden stuff to enable recording maybe, even with accessories?
03:31:28sharpewhat do you mean?
03:31:49MikachuShadowdogMU: linuxstb recently got some basic recording working on 5g i think, via the headphone contact
03:31:59Mikachu(in rockbox)
03:32:10sharpeMikachu: i thought he had it with the line-in on his dock...
03:32:26 Quit midkay ("Leaving")
03:32:30Mikachuwas the 4g via the contact then?
03:32:39sharpei don't remember the 4g.
03:32:56Mikachui remember it was via the contact on at least one model
03:33:09sharpemay have been the 4g then...
03:33:11ShadowdogMUdefine contact
03:33:16sharpeheadphone jack.
03:33:27ShadowdogMUnothing else required?
03:33:32sharpenope.
03:33:35ShadowdogMUWow.
03:33:35Mikachuno, he could even record via the headphones
03:33:51ShadowdogMUHow would that work? plug in a mic there?
03:33:53Mikachubut not 100% sure it was on 5g now
03:34:14ShadowdogMUstill, I consider it amazing
03:34:25sharpewell, it's only a matter of a microphone-like device being connected, speakers would work, since they are essentially the same thing... but they wouldn't work as well.
03:34:38sharpes/speakers/headphones
03:35:20ShadowdogMUReally, you can record through speakers?
03:35:39sharpeyeah... same principle as a microphone.
03:35:51ShadowdogMUimpressive
03:36:02Mikachucomputer speakers usually don't work since they have builtin amplifiers and stuff
03:36:12sharpewell, it's always been like that as long as we've had magnets and wire...
03:38:25sharpewell, for speakers, ones without an external power source would be the best bet to work... :)
03:40:10sharpeeh. i spelt peripheral wrong.
03:40:35Mikachuwhen did you say peripheral?
03:40:50sharpe<sharpe> ShadowdogMU: well, perhiprial support depends on an undocumented protocol, so until someone figures it out, we're pretty much in the dark about it...
03:41:16Mikachuthat was indeed wrong
03:41:20sharpeyep.
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03:41:44sharpeit's why i corrected myself.
03:42:07Mikachui think you would have got away with it though
03:42:26sharpeyep. i'm a quick one like that.
03:43:03ShadowdogMUis there a tiny speaking in the ipod, how else does it make a "click"?
03:43:06sharpehas totally nothing to do with it though. i'm subtle.
03:43:29MikachuShadowdogMU: yes
03:43:30sharpeit has a piezoelectric speaker...
03:43:36Mikachuyou can make it beep too
03:43:51Mikachui made an awesome plugin that beeps with a frequency that depends on where you have your finger on the wheel
03:43:56ShadowdogMUI've got it to beep
03:44:00Mikachuyou can play twinkle twinkle little star
03:44:07ShadowdogMUlol
03:44:24 Quit mikearthur (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
03:44:24Mikachubut i didn't bother fixing it to pure tones so it's pretty hard
03:45:12sharpeMikachu: design a music format and then just have your plugin as a viewer... insta-fame! :)
03:45:56Mikachuhow would a plugin that requires a finger be able to read a music format?
03:46:15sharpei mean, forget the scroll wheel position...
03:46:21Mikachuah
03:46:27Mikachuheh
03:49:41ShadowdogMUyou know what angers me?
03:49:43ShadowdogMUpeople that do this:
03:49:45ShadowdogMUIpod
03:49:47ShadowdogMUIPod
03:49:49ShadowdogMUIPOD
03:49:50ShadowdogMUiPOD
03:49:57ShadowdogMUit's iPod.
03:50:00Mikachuyou know what? i don't care how you spell it
03:50:03ShadowdogMUJust thought I would let my anger out.
03:50:13Mikachuis it okay if i call it ayepod?
03:50:18sharpeeye-pod.
03:50:29sharpewait, better yet, eye-pawd. :)
03:50:37MikachuEyE-PAWD
03:50:48Mikachuthe capitalization is apparently important
03:51:07sharpenot if you see everything in lowercase.
03:51:47ShadowdogMUhow much ram does the 30gb 5g have?
03:51:51sharpe32mb.
03:52:02ShadowdogMU60?
03:52:04sharpe64mb.
03:52:09Mikachu120?
03:52:13sharpe-1.
03:52:16ShadowdogMUnifty, always wondered
03:52:29Mikachubut rockbox only uses 32 in either case i think
03:52:51sharpealthough, there is a patch to utilize all 64mb on the 60gigs...
03:52:55ShadowdogMUI just had an idea, iLinux can play video on the nanos right?
03:53:08sharpeiLinux...?
03:53:18ShadowdogMULinux for your iPod
03:53:21sharpelast i heard it was ipodlinux...
03:53:24Mikachuthat angers me, it's lInux
03:53:34ShadowdogMUIs it really?
03:53:43Mikachuno, it's iPodLinux
03:53:57ShadowdogMUWell yes, but it can play videos
03:54:02sharpetry asking in #ipodlinux if it's ilinux or ipodlinux... :-D
03:54:14ShadowdogMUand not just mpeg4 and h.264 or w/e it is
03:54:20ShadowdogMUso it is possible for Rockbox to
03:54:23ShadowdogMUor maybe
03:54:26ShadowdogMUI dunno
03:55:12 Quit nudelyn ("At Argon, we're working to keep your money.")
03:55:24sharpei thought that only uncompressed avi's worked for them...
03:55:42ShadowdogMUonly MPEG-4 and H.264
03:56:02sharpethat's what the ipod natively supports...
03:56:10Mikachui highly doubt they can play mpeg-4 and h264 in realtime
03:56:11ShadowdogMUYes
03:56:27sharpei don't think they've figured out how to use the broadcom chip... have they?
03:56:37Mikachuthe nano doesn't have a broadcom chip
03:56:47sharpegah, i'm thinking about 5gs.
03:57:12ShadowdogMUH.264 video: up to 768 Kbps, 320 x 240, 30 frames per sec., Baseline Profile up to Level 1.3 with AAC-LC up to 160 Kbps, 48 Khz, stereo audio in .m4v, .mp4 and .mov file formats
03:57:12ShadowdogMUMPEG-4 video: up to 2.5 mbps, 480 x 480, 30 frames per sec., Simple Profile with AAC-LC up to 160 Kbps, 48 Khz, stereo audio in .m4v, .mp4 and .mov file formats
03:57:18ShadowdogMUhttp://www.apple.com/ipod/specs.html
03:57:25sharpe...
03:57:31Mikachunotice how your url says apple.com
03:57:35sharpeyes...
03:57:40Mikachunot ipodlinux.org
03:57:41ShadowdogMUYes...
03:57:46 Part cowmilk2
03:58:01ShadowdogMUI thought that is what you were talking about?
03:58:54sharpeas far as i know, (whatever app it is that plays videos) only can do uncompressed avi's...
03:59:00sharpein ipodlinux.
04:00
04:00:53netmasta10btso uhm, what was the name of that commercial arm disassembler that everyone likes
04:01:01sharpeida pro?
04:01:05netmasta10btyar thx
04:01:08sharpe:)
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04:02:59 Quit meshuga (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
04:03:10 Join meshuga [0] (i=meshuga@c-71-231-139-142.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
04:03:23Jungti1234hey
04:03:32arowhello
04:04:00arowmy ipod crashes when i load an AAC file (mp4)
04:04:05arowi have an ipod nano
04:04:10arowno EQ
04:04:36sharpeis that the format you purchase music off of itunes in...? i can't remember...
04:04:49Jungti1234Volume of original firmware(iriver) what Rockbox's volume with what same?
04:05:11arowits the format used by itunes
04:05:28sharpearow: did you purchase it off of itunes?
04:05:33arownope
04:05:36arowi converted it
04:05:39sharpeah. good.
04:05:45arow(with itunes)
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04:05:58Jungti1234don't know?
04:06:12arowi don't understand
04:06:15cowmilk2so if i install rockbox on my iPod, i can easily switch back and forth between rockbox and the iPod default software?
04:06:21sharpeJungti1234: i have no idea.
04:06:22Jungti1234Rockbox is -84 ~ 0 db, iriver is 0 ~ 40
04:06:28sharpecowmilk2: yes.
04:06:42netmasta10btlol! ida pro demo warnings: it will not disassemble itself.
04:06:47netmasta10btdamn!
04:06:51sharpearow: sorry, i'm not really able to help you...
04:06:58cowmilk2sharpe: cool, coz i plan on using rockbox only to play audio formats that iPod can't handle, such as OGG audio.
04:07:10arowthanx anyway
04:07:10sharpego for it then...
04:07:11cowmilk2how much space on my iPod does Rockbox take up
04:07:28sharpeincluding plugins and such?
04:07:32cowmilk2any thing i should know before i install rocxbox on my iPod
04:07:40cowmilk2what plugins do i need?
04:07:42sharpeand necessary codecs...
04:07:45cowmilk2what plugins are there
04:07:47cowmilk2?
04:07:47sharpetechnically none.
04:08:08cowmilk2codecs? i need codecs, don't i?
04:08:18 Join meshuga_ [0] (i=meshuga@c-71-231-141-145.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
04:08:19sharpethey come with rockbox.
04:08:38Febscowmilk2, take a look at the manual, it will give you an excellent overview of what Rockbox can do.
04:08:39ShadowdogMUWhat is the iPod's default volume range?
04:08:49arowi really like the rockbox software!
04:08:56FebsShadowdogMU, what do you mean "default"?
04:08:56cowmilk2codecs come with rocxbox? so there's no way of separetng rocxbox from its codecs
04:09:04cowmilk2nor would i want to separate the 2, right?
04:09:07sharpeShadowdogMU: the left of the screen, to the right of the screen. :)
04:09:13ShadowdogMUDefault as in Apple's Firmware
04:09:19ShadowdogMUI meant in terms of dB :P
04:09:33sharpecowmilk2: you really don't need to worry about the size of rockbox...
04:09:36cowmilk2what do you guys think of the other software... linuxpod or something like that
04:09:52cowmilk2or ipodlinux... i forgot the name
04:10:06FebsI don't believe that the Apple fw uses a dB scale for volume.
04:10:08ShadowdogMUipodlinux is correct
04:10:14MikachuFebs: it uses a blue bar
04:10:28ShadowdogMUWell I know they don't, but hasn't someone at least estimated it?
04:10:31sharpeMikachu: like i said, left of the screen, to the right of the screen.
04:10:34cowmilk2ShadowdogMU: how does ipodlinux compare with rockbox? can ipodlinux play wma files?
04:10:44ShadowdogMUcowmilk2 haven't used it
04:10:58ShadowdogMUcowmilk2: #ipodlinux
04:11:06excitatorycowmilk2: dude, calm down. rockbox works out of the box, and you'll love it. at best, you'll want themes.
04:11:23ShadowdogMUThemes, oh yes: http://www.brockarthur.com/zupload/dump%20060804-121832.bmp
04:11:37excitatoryi use it on my nano with zero problems. plays everything flawlessly.
04:12:11cowmilk2excitatory: i think i'll love it.
04:12:20ShadowdogMUcowmilk2, you will.
04:12:24cowmilk2excitatory: the only complaint that i have (as of yet) is the battery life.
04:12:53ShadowdogMUYes, but remember the iPod rockbox has a bit of ways to go
04:13:04cowmilk2apple says 14 hours for default apple software. while rockbox page shows about 7 hours for my 5g iPod
04:13:14ShadowdogMUI believe it just recently got sound
04:13:27ShadowdogMUcowmilk2, Apple has gotten sued over inaccurate battery life ratings
04:13:30Jungti1234hm
04:13:41excitatoryyea, on my nano, i listen to it all day at work. probably get a solid 6-8 hours of constant play, with the occasional playlist modification here and there.. and a brief shutdown for lunch.
04:13:45cowmilk2ShadowdogMU: but is there any validity to the suing?
04:13:57ShadowdogMUYou may get 14 hours if you have 1 playlist, no backlight, and you hit play once and that is it, volume at it's lowest
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04:14:42cowmilk2so if i don't touch the volume control, yet replace the white iPod earPhones with some headphones, battery will be drained more quickly?
04:14:51 Join midkay [0] (n=midkay@rockbox/developer/midkay)
04:14:57excitatoryyea, volume is key i found.. i plug mine into a tape adaptor, and so my volume is generally cranked.
04:15:43ShadowdogMUAlbum art is projected to be added to Fireworks, but it works now doesn't it?
04:16:12 Quit ^jhMikeS^ (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
04:16:13cowmilk2i understand that rockbox is still in its baby stage and is still growing up. but if i understand the nature of rockbox correctly, rockbox will never come close to the battery life usage as that of default Apple software, yes?
04:16:37excitatorycowmilk2: no, untrue.. it's basically on par with the apple firmware in my tests
04:16:46cowmilk2And this is because, I understand, rockbox is playing from the hardware, as opposed to the apple software playing from ____ (somewhere else).
04:16:54cowmilk2excitatory: is that right?
04:16:55cowmilk2cool
04:17:09excitatorybut i never got more than 8 hours with the apple firmware
04:17:19excitatoryand this was the first week i owned the thing.
04:17:59cowmilk2excitatory: you have a 30 gig 5th get?
04:18:01cowmilk2gen?
04:18:11excitatoryalso, the format of your music and bit rate will affect it as well.
04:18:35excitatoryif you're listening to flac files, your battery will drain a lot faster than a 192kbps mp3, or even q6 ogg
04:18:48cowmilk2excitatory: i see. a higher bit rate means faster battery drainage
04:18:48excitatorycowmilk2: no, just the nano
04:18:57sharpecowmilk2: both the apple firmware and rockbox play audio with a software codec...
04:19:01Febscowmilk2, Rockbox uses software codecs.
04:19:25excitatorywell, yes, more processing power is needed to decode the file at those rates
04:19:34cowmilk2Febs: what's your point?
04:19:37excitatoryand so slightly more power is consumed
04:19:40ShadowdogMUEQ too, use the EQ>
04:19:56cowmilk2ShadowdogMU: right. i read that in apple.com's faq
04:20:13ShadowdogMU30GB 5th gen cowmilk2?
04:20:21cowmilk2ShadowdogMU: yes, that's mine
04:20:35cowmilk2a 30 gig 5th gen that i got free from gratis-internet
04:20:36cowmilk28-)
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04:20:41ShadowdogMUI wouldn't suggest using the EQ at all then, I have the same and just listening and scrolling skips music, add in the EQ to the processor (only 1 /2 )
04:20:47ShadowdogMUit could get bad
04:20:49excitatoryidk, 95% of my music is q6 ogg, and i get at least 7 hours of continuous play, with a backlit screen, loud volume, and playlist changes periodically.
04:21:21cowmilk2ShadowdogMU: what do you mean "add in eq to processor (only 1/2)"?
04:21:23 Quit meshuga (Success)
04:21:26arowcowmilk2: dutch?
04:21:29ShadowdogMUThe iPod has 2 processors
04:21:36ShadowdogMURockbox currently only utilizes one
04:21:58cowmilk2arow: nope i am not dutch. why do you ask?
04:22:09sharpetechnically it's two cores... not two processors... :)
04:22:13excitatorycowmilk2: really, the only thing you need to know is that the interface is odd at first, but you'll grow to LOVE it once you give it a chance and actually learn it, and two, the default theme is a joke, and you really need to replace it immediately.
04:22:31cowmilk2ShadowdogMU: what's the siginficane of the Rockbox using only one processor (or core, as sharpe says)?
04:22:50arowcowmilk2: cause you sayd "gratis-internet"
04:23:13cowmilk2excitatory: based on what you said, i guess i don't need to worry about rockbox's battery life usage
04:23:29cowmilk2arow: no, that's the name of the website/company that gave me an iPod
04:23:37ShadowdogMUcowmilk2, think about it, if a computer has a dual core processor, but only uses one, what happens?
04:23:46cowmilk2ShadowdogMU: i don't know
04:23:50cowmilk2ShadowdogMU: i'm no geek
04:23:52ShadowdogMU-_-
04:23:58ShadowdogMUWell ok, let's put it this way
04:24:09*ShadowdogMU thinks of another situation
04:24:10arowcowmilk2: it runs slower... :p
04:24:15cowmilk2ShadowdogMU: plus, my computer is old. i think it's got only one processor (p3 500 mHz).
04:24:33ShadowdogMUI was using a hypthetical sitution
04:24:46cowmilk2why does'nt rockbox use both processors (or cores), then?
04:24:53cowmilk2if using both processors is better?
04:24:55Febscowmilk2, the point is that Rockbox has untapped potential.
04:24:55ShadowdogMUNot coded yet
04:25:00ShadowdogMUdan_a is working on it
04:25:18cowmilk2oh, is dan_a the man behind rocxbox
04:25:20excitatorycowmilk2: your biggest problem now sounds like your box probably only has usb 1.1, and thus transfers will be slooow.
04:25:25cowmilk2please pass on my thanks to him/them
04:25:34Febsdan_a is one of many.
04:25:48cowmilk2excitatory: that's what i want to know. how can i figure out if my old box has version 1 or 2 of USB?
04:25:52cowmilk2can you guys tellme?
04:26:06excitatorycowmilk2: running linux, or?
04:26:08cowmilk2yes
04:26:08arowi really love the rockbos project, but some codecs are not fully integrated
04:26:09cowmilk2ubuntu
04:26:18cowmilk2arow: like which?
04:26:20arowthat's an obstackle for me
04:26:30FebsHuh? "Fully integrated?"
04:26:35sharpei believe he means optimized...
04:26:37excitatorycowmilk2: lspci
04:26:38ShadowdogMUcowmilk2, does your ipod charge when plugged into the computer?
04:26:43cowmilk2ShadowdogMU: yes
04:26:46cowmilk2it does charge
04:26:48arowcowmilk2: codecs you don't have to be considered about ;)
04:26:53cowmilk2arow: ok
04:26:58ShadowdogMUthen it's 2.0
04:27:16cowmilk2ShadowdogMU: but i hear that 1.0 usb's also charge
04:27:17arowi mean optimized, if you like
04:27:19excitatoryShadowdogMU: wait, that doesn't mean anything.. i've charged off of 1.1
04:27:47ShadowdogMUexcitatory, I've never in my life seen a powered USB 1.1 port
04:27:50excitatoryhe's got a p3 box, i'm willing to bet it's only 1.1, unless there's a usb2 pci card
04:28:03sharpethe usb version doesn't really matter. you can charge off a battery...
04:28:05ShadowdogMUI think that is a safe bet
04:28:10excitatoryShadowdogMU: come over then
04:28:15ShadowdogMUOk, where ya live?
04:28:16excitatoryworks on my old box
04:28:24excitatorywisconsin
04:28:31ShadowdogMUhmm, a bit far, but fine
04:28:35*ShadowdogMU hops in his car
04:28:42arowhehe
04:28:42*excitatory locks door
04:28:51ShadowdogMUI'll kick it down!
04:28:52cowmilk2http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/19742 <−−lspci printout, excitatoryp please take a look.
04:28:55ShadowdogMUbreak a window even
04:29:16ShadowdogMUOk, I want to try to make a theme now
04:29:17cowmilk2ShadowdogMU: excitatory you guys made me chuckle
04:29:42ShadowdogMUcan't be too complicated
04:30:36excitatorycowmilk2: hrm.. the output is not obvious
04:33:14ShadowdogMUexcitatory, cowmilk2 pretty sure it's 1.1
04:33:18ShadowdogMUhttp://www.intel.com/design/intarch/datashts/29056201.pdf
04:33:21ShadowdogMU1.0*
04:33:23cowmilk2ShadowdogMU: how do you know?
04:35:20ShadowdogMUBecause your lspci output told me your USB controller was, 82371AB/EB/MB PIIX4 USB
04:35:33ShadowdogMUso a simple google search brought me to the intel page, and gave me the spec pdf
04:36:21cowmilk2ShadowdogMU: ok.
04:36:37cowmilk2if it's version 1, i guess i just have to be patient when i add music to my iPod
04:36:56ShadowdogMUhow many songs do you have?
04:37:22cowmilk2ShadowdogMU: i'm adding the audio slowly
04:37:30cowmilk2by that i mean. a little at a time
04:37:37ShadowdogMUok
04:37:58cowmilk2i still havent' figured out how to get podcasts onto my ipod
04:38:09cowmilk2currently the software i'm using on my box is gtkpod
04:38:17cowmilk2but gtkpod can't fully do podcasts
04:38:23cowmilk2what do you guys suggest?
04:38:37cowmilk2i have an "http:// ... .xml" file that i want to add as a podcast
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04:46:18 Join fatherfork [0] (n=44df7439@labb.contactor.se)
04:46:41fatherforkwhere can I get the changelog for the latest build?
04:46:44sharpewell, i'm gone. g'night evryone.
04:46:48midkaysharpe.
04:46:59sharpebah. what midkay? :)
04:48:24 Quit webguest97 (Client Quit)
04:49:31arowi'm outta here
04:49:31arowbye
04:49:52 Quit arow ("Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com")
04:50:09fatherforkanybody?
04:50:14fatherforkchangelog?
04:50:29midkaythere is a front page changelog, and a changelog on the daily build page..
04:50:38fatherforkah
04:50:38midkayin fact i don't think i've ever seen a site that makes it easier to access changelogs.
04:50:38midkay:)
04:51:09fatherforkwhoa whoa, yeah, dang. kick me.
04:51:32midkayliterally, or..?
04:51:44ShadowdogMUI can't get creative enough right now to make a theme
04:51:45ShadowdogMUtomorrow
04:51:47midkaywas that sarcasm or "i'm offended that you told me where they are", or...?
04:51:58fatherforkhypothetically
04:52:08fatherforkneither
04:52:16fatherforkseriously, I just didn't see it
04:52:20midkayyou can't describe it as hypothetical.. that word doesn't fit here!
04:52:26ShadowdogMUdoes rockbox themes support transparency?
04:52:27midkayalright, well now you know where it is. :)
04:52:32fatherforkI know, I just didn't know what to say
04:52:32ShadowdogMUdo*
04:52:38midkayShadowdogMU: what kind? in a way they do.
04:52:38fatherforkthanks
04:52:45fatherforkyes, they do support it
04:52:50midkaynot like 50% transparent, but like this-is-drawn or this-is-not-drawn.
04:53:02ShadowdogMUI mean like alpha transparency
04:53:02fatherforkit's like a pink color correct?
04:53:11midkayShadowdogMU: not really.
04:53:17sharpein fact, that is exactly what we use to signify transparency. this-is-drawn and this-is-not-drawn.
04:53:18ShadowdogMUOk, I'll have to fake it
04:53:20midkay255,0,255 is 100% transparent.
04:53:30midkayliterally any other color is 100% opaque.
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04:53:40midkayno true antialiasing, you'll have to fake it, right.
04:53:47fatherforkfantastic, midkay, I needed that.
04:53:49fatherforkthanks again
04:53:53ShadowdogMUIt'lll probably be all images
04:53:53midkaynp.
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04:55:37cowmilk2if i install rocxbox, will there be an easy way to remove it later on? will there be an easy way to upgrade rocxbox when new versions come out?
04:55:45ShadowdogMUYes and yes
04:55:53cowmilk2how and how?
04:56:11ShadowdogMU1. apple restore utility or delete and remove bootloaded
04:56:17ShadowdogMU2. just replace the files
04:56:19midkayread the wiki, and unzip a daily build..
04:56:27midkayboth should be in the manual and/or wiki.
04:56:32ShadowdogMUOk GMod time
04:56:36cowmilk2ok. thanks
04:56:39ShadowdogMUmmhmm
04:58:18cowmilk2so i am on http://www.rockbox.org/download/. which do i download for my 5th gen iPod?
04:58:23cowmilk2or am i on the wrong page?
04:58:26Febscowmilk2, as I suggested earlier, you might want to take a look at the manual.
04:58:43cowmilk2look ath e manual to know which to download, Febs?
04:58:52FebsYES!
04:59:00fatherforkyep
04:59:07fatherforkthat's how I figured it out
04:59:11fatherforkit's all there
04:59:16FebsRead the "Getting Started" section, and specifically read the "Installation Instructions."
04:59:33fatherforkI even know that, I have no idea why I didn't look harder for the changelog
04:59:54cowmilk2Febs: fatherfork thanks. am reading now
05:00
05:00:01cowmilk2anybody here on ubuntu or xubuntu?
05:00:11fatherforkoo, credit for the suggestion to febs
05:00:22midkayis it an ubuntu-specific-only question?
05:00:26midkayif it is, it probably doesn't belong here..
05:00:30cowmilk2midkay: i don't really know
05:00:32midkayif it isn't, why not just ask?
05:00:36cowmilk2ok
05:00:50cowmilk2how do you guys get podcasts onto your ipod?
05:01:06FebsYou are amazing at reading and typing at the same time.
05:01:16cowmilk2Febs: sorry
05:01:19cowmilk2ok. back to the manual
05:01:23cowmilk28- )
05:01:32*midkay wonders why you would even ask for an ubuntu user for that. :)
05:01:34fatherforkindeed
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05:01:40cowmilk2what can i do, i just love chatting with you
05:01:50midkayor causing pain towards me. :(
05:01:56midkaynow i'm all bothered. :(
05:02:05midkaythanks for ruining my night.
05:02:07cowmilk2midkay: because ubuntu users may have a different way of getting podcasts ontot heir ipod htan a non-ubuntu suer
05:02:12cowmilk2midkay: what?
05:02:18cowmilk2what's wrong, midkay?
05:02:18fatherforkhaha
05:02:28fatherforkthanks again guys. later.
05:02:33 Quit fatherfork ("CGI:IRC")
05:03:06midkayoh, you should have included the ubuntu part in your question, rather than just "how does anyone here get their podcasts on their ipod".
05:03:17cowmilk2midkay: right
05:03:29cowmilk2coz i thought maybe rockbox does that?
05:03:47midkay.. gets podcasts onto the ipod on which it runs? magically or what?
05:04:08cowmilk2huh?
05:04:16cowmilk2Febs: am reading the manual... and i have a question
05:04:25midkayhow would rockbox get podcasts onto an iPod?
05:04:40cowmilk2midkay: that's what i don' know. i'm still reading up on the nature of rocxbox
05:04:55midkayit modifies what runs on your iPod, not what puts stuff on it. you do that yourself.
05:05:03cowmilk2midkay: i see
05:05:42cowmilk2the rockbox manual says that though the apple firwmware resides entirely on flash memory, most of the rockbox software resides on iPod hard drive...
05:05:45***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
05:05:57midkaywhere does it say that?
05:06:05cowmilk2doesn't this mean that the rockbox cannot ever become as efficient in battery usage as firmware
05:06:15cowmilk2midkay: it says so at http://download.rockbox.org/manual/rockbox-ipodvideo/rockbox-buildch1.html#x3-20001
05:06:17midkaynot in the least, and that's not very true either.
05:06:54midkayah, that
05:07:09 Quit manegol ()
05:09:15cowmilk2Febs: i'm readin g the manual. in the installation section, it says i should check the wiki for up-to-date info. i'm on the wiki page. how do i know if there is updated info?
05:09:32cowmilk2Febs: manual link: http://download.rockbox.org/manual/rockbox-ipodvideo/rockbox-buildch1.html#x3-80001.4.2
05:10:29FebsDon't worry about it. The manual should be pretty much up to date.
05:10:45cowmilk2ok
05:10:48cowmilk2ty
05:10:56cowmilk2i'll continue reading ... and installing.
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05:12:57cowmilk2i've just downloaded the bin file and the fw.c file. i'm going to be doing the commands in terminal now. i'm a bit nervous. i hope it doesn't wreck my box, or my iPod
05:13:00cowmilk2here i go
05:14:14midkay_it should be clear in the instructions that you can't wreck your iPod and if you mean "computer" by "box" that is certainly out of the question.. :)
05:14:46cowmilk2midkay: ok
05:14:52cowmilk2midkay_: are you on windows? or mac?
05:15:21midkay_windows, but running this kind of command in any OS shouldn't just "kill your box"..
05:15:22cowmilk2coz i learned to call the computer a box when i switched to linux
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05:15:30cowmilk2midkay_: ok
05:16:05midkaynot unfamiliar with the terminology in the least, but being concerned of wrecking your PC or "box" seems a bit weird so I wanted to confirm.
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05:18:12cowmilk2midkay: ok
05:24:57BHSPitMonkeymy ipod's partition table is goofed.
05:25:41BHSPitMonkeyrecovering it in testdisk just results in a sad folder icon.
05:26:37*midkay points and laughs.
05:31:44cowmilk2BHSPitMonkey: how did the partitoin get that way? rockbox's fault?
05:32:30BHSPitMonkeynope
05:33:01 Quit XavierGr ()
05:33:11cowmilk2so how, BHSPitMonkey?
05:33:29BHSPitMonkeyI did a firmware update because things were acting oddly last week, and after that, my linux partition stopped appearing
05:33:46BHSPitMonkeytestdisk showed that it was still there, but the fat partition reported a falsely large size
05:34:06BHSPitMonkeyit wrote the correct partition table, and the ipod can't boot now
05:34:17BHSPitMonkeybut give me a little bit, there's some things I'm going to try anyway.
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06:00
06:04:18cowmilk2how did you do a firmware update, BHSPitMonkey? do you mean the iPod updater?
06:04:39BHSPitMonkeyyeah.
06:04:55cowmilk2oh, i was thinking of doing that, too
06:04:56BHSPitMonkey"updated" to the version I was already at
06:05:06BHSPitMonkeynot restore
06:05:07cowmilk2BHSPitMonkey: what do you mean?
06:05:35BHSPitMonkeyan update just replaces the firmware partition, a restore wipes the whole device
06:05:37cowmilk2apple.com/ipod/download <−− is that what you got BHSPitMonkey?
06:05:40BHSPitMonkeyyes.
06:05:55BHSPitMonkeythat program has two buttons, update and restore
06:06:21cowmilk2so you mean this isn't the first time you ran the update software?
06:06:52cowmilk2 how did you get a linux partition on your system anyway?
06:07:15BHSPitMonkeyon my iPod, you mean?
06:07:20cowmilk2i use linux on my comptuer. it dosent' necesasariy mean that theer's a linux partiiotn on my iPod, right?
06:07:25cowmilk2yes, on your ipod.
06:07:51BHSPitMonkeythere's a linux partition on my iPod, because my iPod has (had) linux on it.
06:07:58BHSPitMonkeywww.ipodlinux.org
06:08:15BHSPitMonkeysurprising that you've heard of rockbox but not that project.
06:09:00cowmilk2BHSPitMonkey: don't be surpsied. because i have heard of ipodlinux
06:09:20cowmilk2why did you put linux on your ipod?
06:09:20BHSPitMonkeyk.
06:09:32cowmilk2what can ipodlinuix do that rockbox can't?
06:09:35cowmilk2what's the diff?
06:10:04BHSPitMonkeyrun a program written for linux? heh
06:10:23cowmilk2what programs did _you_ run
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06:12:25BHSPitMonkeywhichever I wanted to, is this about "correcting" my decision to use iPodLinux?
06:13:20BHSPitMonkeyif it is, you truly don't "get" the underlying premise of the open-source world in general
06:13:21cowmilkBHSPitMonkey: nope
06:13:26BHSPitMonkeyok
06:13:36cowmilkwhat's your computer os?
06:14:31cowmilki use Ubuntu, an open-source os. i'm not your enemy. i'm not an enemy to the open-source world.
06:14:35BHSPitMonkeyI have several installed. I'm liking Ubuntu, so I've been using it primarily recently.
06:15:08cowmilki only ask what programs _you_ use on your linux partiiton on your ipod because i wanted to know if it's something i should look into
06:15:15cowmilkit <−−ipodlinux
06:16:15BHSPitMonkeythere's always modules for podzilla2 being released by people
06:16:45BHSPitMonkeyI like iDoom and iBoy better than the rock* equivalents
06:17:51BHSPitMonkeythere's usually some cool new developments happening over there, so that part of the project interests me as well.
06:18:47BHSPitMonkeyplus it was the first project I involved myself in when I got an iPod (before finding Rockbox), and I'm just fond of the project and it's people, because I've learned a lot through it
06:19:00BHSPitMonkeyso I'm biased a little bit, personally.
06:19:22cowmilk8-)
06:19:55cowmilkwhen you say "bias", you don't mean you can't see clearly regarding rockbox and ipodlinux, do you?
06:21:15cowmilki'd like to try ipodlinux too, but am scared of undergoing the expeirience you had
06:21:40BHSPitMonkeythis experience wasn't because of iPL (well, I suppose on some level it was)
06:21:41BHSPitMonkeyanyway
06:21:46BHSPitMonkeyI'll get it worked out
06:22:02cowmilkplease tell me then how it happened. so that i can avoid it.
06:22:10cowmilkwhat's BH?
06:22:13cowmilkin your nick
06:22:16cowmilkBHS
06:22:21BHSPitMonkeyand I love these projects both equally, they're both great
06:22:32cowmilkyeah, and they're both getting better, aren't they
06:22:37BHSPitMonkeymmhmm
06:22:56BHSPitMonkeyBHS = school initials
06:23:26cowmilki see
06:24:27BHSPitMonkeyis your iPod dense with music yet?
06:24:37BHSPitMonkeyor, rather, music that isn't safely backed up on your PC
06:25:00cowmilkBHSPitMonkey: huh?
06:25:15cowmilkum... i've got 1 gig of music on my ipod
06:25:23cowmilki've just started using it this week
06:25:27BHSPitMonkeycould you deal with wiping out the iPod, is your music backed up on the computer
06:25:31cowmilki've still got some stuff i'd like to updolad
06:25:44cowmilkdo i need to wipe out iPod for some reason?
06:25:56cowmilkwell, yes, by music is on my harddrive
06:26:29BHSPitMonkeyiPL has a relatively new installer, so installing it is much easier than it once was
06:27:04BHSPitMonkeybut if you use it, you do have to erase the music you have so far.
06:27:30BHSPitMonkeywhat generation of iPod is it?
06:28:17 Quit mirak (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
06:28:29cowmilk5th gen
06:28:49cowmilkBHSPitMonkey: i think i can afford to erase all te music on my ipod
06:29:08cowmilkbut what if i want to undo the ipl installation? do i have to wipe out my ipod again?
06:29:34BHSPitMonkeythere's ways around having to do that.
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06:30:12BHSPitMonkeyit doesn't hurt anything to have it on there, though... besides the fact that you give up a small amount of music storage
06:30:21cowmilkBHSPitMonkey: i'm still waiting to learn of how you got your partiition messed up
06:30:24BHSPitMonkey(in my case, I gave up 64MB)
06:30:33cowmilkso that i can avoid it
06:30:54BHSPitMonkeyumm, just don't run the apple updater.
06:31:25BHSPitMonkeyany time you run the updater, it WILL overwrite your rockbox and/or linux bootloader, anyway
06:31:33BHSPitMonkeyso you wouldn't want to do that probably anyway
06:31:55BHSPitMonkeyI only ran it because I was desperate, and I was trying things to fix a problem I had.
06:32:07BHSPitMonkey(a problem that was more easily solved, I found out)
06:32:25cowmilkBHSPitMonkey: ok. but after the updater overwrites the rockbox and/or linux bootloader, i can just re-install the bootloder, right?
06:32:38cowmilkBHSPitMonkey: what was your prob, and how did you solve
06:33:02cowmilki would like to run the ipod updater because i hear it fixes bugs and perhaps will get my battery usage better
06:33:08cowmilkwhat exactly does the ipod updater do?
06:33:19cowmilkif you can tell me, i can better decide if it's somethinh i don't need
06:33:23BHSPitMonkeymy problem was that my itunes database got itself corrupted , but an iTunes sync ended up fixing it.
06:33:41cowmilkBHSPitMonkey: you mean you had to sync outside of ubuntu?
06:33:56BHSPitMonkeyI still manage my iPod in iTunes.
06:34:09BHSPitMonkeythat's one of the few things I have to reboot into Windows for
06:34:24cowmilkwhy don't you use a linux app? i use gtkpod
06:34:36BHSPitMonkeygtkpod doesn't do videos, I don't think
06:35:24cowmilkah
06:36:47BHSPitMonkeylike I said, I can't wait until Banshee or Songbird or something is stable, and iPod-supportive
06:37:03cowmilkyeah
06:37:09BHSPitMonkeysince I do like the iTunes GUI
06:37:23cowmilkit's nice
06:37:24BHSPitMonkey(just not all the nonsense that goes along with it)
06:37:35cowmilkwhat notsense?
06:37:39cowmilkdrm?
06:37:48BHSPitMonkeylike the iTunesDB, apple DRM crap, etc etc
06:39:16cowmilkwhat exxactyl is this iTunesdb? it's not essential?
06:39:52BHSPitMonkeythe iTunesDB is the basis of the iPod's Apple firmware music player
06:40:02BHSPitMonkeyit's that thing that rockbox hates ;)
06:40:12cowmilkBHSPitMonkey: ah
06:40:35cowmilkso you mean that rockbox can't play any of the songs on the iPod that were loaded with itunesdb?
06:40:42BHSPitMonkeythe database of files, named F593 and Q207, etc
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06:41:33BHSPitMonkeyit can play those songs individually, but it's a pain. you have to use things like TagCache just to look through the songs effectively
06:42:01cowmilkah
06:42:10cowmilkwhy did apple do that i wonder?
06:42:20BHSPitMonkeyit goes against the rockbox file structure philosophy, to just have audio files organized in plain-jane directory hierarchy
06:42:40BHSPitMonkeyprobably because it's easy for their software, and hard for everybody elses.
06:43:21BHSPitMonkeyit makes their software more exclusive and proprietary, and makes it slightly harder to share music as well
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06:56:21cowmilkBHSPitMonkey: do you think that's why Apple has this iTunesdb system?
06:57:37*BHSPitMonkey shrugs
06:57:51BHSPitMonkeyit's a valid accusation
06:57:55BHSPitMonkeybut I'm not apple.
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07:00:07midkayiTunesDB doesn't make it "easy for their software", it just makes it more exclusive.
07:00:48Paul_The_Nerdmidkay: It does to an extent.
07:00:57midkaywhy?
07:01:03Paul_The_NerdThe filename will always have the same exact number of characters in it.
07:01:14midkay.. why would that make it easy in any way at all?
07:01:39Paul_The_NerdYou know exactly how much memory you need for filenames without feeling like you waste even a single char.
07:01:47Paul_The_Nerd:-P
07:01:49midkay.. gosh, that simplifies so much...
07:01:50midkay:)
07:02:08midkaynot that they use the filenames...?
07:02:14midkaythe database uses tags.
07:02:28Paul_The_NerdYeah, but you have to have a file to associate them with when they get loaded from disk
07:02:57Paul_The_NerdThat also means that playlists have a predictable size that increases linearly. That might be an advantage in some strange world.
07:03:01midkaydo we know for a fact that these are loaded to memory? :)
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07:05:49***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
07:05:54 Quit secleinte (Client Quit)
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07:09:58Jungti1234hey
07:10:23 Join damaki_ [0] (n=Chocolat@ALille-153-1-50-91.w86-196.abo.wanadoo.fr)
07:10:31BHSPitMonkeyhi
07:10:38Jungti1234Is normal sound of Rockbox different from normal sound of iriver firmware?
07:11:09BHSPitMonkeyit would take a picky ear to notice, I would think
07:11:46Jungti1234um
07:11:47midkaywhy don't you try and see?
07:11:53midkayit probably is.
07:11:54Jungti1234what
07:11:59Jungti1234what try?
07:12:00Paul_The_NerdI believe tests have shown that, at least on the iRiver, our Mp3 decoder is not significantly different than the one iRiver used.
07:12:04midkaytry listening to both.
07:12:09Jungti1234haha..
07:12:10Jungti1234hey
07:12:23Jungti1234[11:04:49] <Jungti1234> Volume of original firmware(iriver) what Rockbox's volume with what same?
07:12:29midkayhaha.
07:12:33*midkay gives up and gets back to mapping.
07:12:54Jungti1234Because their sound is different, I can't know correctly it.
07:13:18Paul_The_NerdThen guess.
07:13:27Jungti1234hm..
07:13:38Jungti1234http://www.cdpkorea.com/zboard4/zboard.php?id=freeboard&no=69592
07:13:50Jungti1234Very long argument
07:14:06Jungti1234dispute
07:15:05Jungti1234Normal sound setting, different?
07:15:23Paul_The_NerdI have no idea what you're asking.
07:16:14Jungti1234Don't you know answer? or don't understand?
07:16:33Paul_The_NerdI don't understand.
07:16:45Paul_The_NerdWhat you asked was not a question.
07:17:00Jungti1234hmm...
07:17:30midkayhaha.
07:17:35Jungti1234How does iriver mark volume?
07:17:49Jungti1234and how does rockbox mark voulme?
07:18:20midkayby numbers, and by decibels.
07:18:36Paul_The_NerdRockbox tells you how much the hardware is actually adjusting the volume of the output.
07:18:47Paul_The_NerdiRiver makes up numbers and says "This is the volume"
07:18:52Paul_The_NerdThey are imaginary.
07:19:28Jungti1234ah.. iriver is inexact?
07:19:53Paul_The_NerdiRiver doesn't mean anything.
07:20:04midkayit's exact according to its scale, its scale is simply random.
07:20:25Paul_The_NerdThey picked a certain level to be 1, said the loudest is 40, an divided the space up between the two.
07:20:43midkayis there a 0? :)
07:20:51Paul_The_NerdI think 0 is mute.
07:20:53Jungti1234hehe
07:21:01Paul_The_Nerd1 is far too loud for me at night though.
07:21:04Jungti1234I doubt iriver's technique....
07:21:07midkayhaha.
07:21:11midkaywhat technique?
07:21:16midkayiriver fake. rockbox real.
07:21:16Jungti1234all
07:21:21Jungti1234hahahaha
07:21:22Jungti1234yes, yes
07:21:23Paul_The_NerdHeck, on an airplane, sitting right behind the engines, I find myself listening at only -35
07:21:45midkay.. like that's a common occurrance? :)
07:21:55midkaysigh.
07:21:57midkayit was occurence.
07:22:01Paul_The_NerdHehehe
07:22:05midkayoccurrence. GAH.
07:22:08midkayi fail you all.
07:22:08midkay:(
07:22:27Jungti1234hehe
07:22:34Paul_The_NerdActually, if it's quiet enough, I end up continually turning it down, and bit by bit.
07:22:41Paul_The_NerdThen suddenly, I lower it ONE more, and it's off.
07:22:54Paul_The_NerdWell, on the iPod Nano. On the iRiver, the hiss is too loud.
07:22:55midkayhaha.
07:23:18Paul_The_NerdPlus the iRiver has a lower minimum.
07:23:36Jungti1234white noise..
07:24:18midkaythat was random.
07:25:18Paul_The_NerdI can see why Rockbox might be nice on PSP actually
07:25:36Paul_The_NerdIt's the only thing I own that plays MP3s that I cannot detect a hiss on.
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07:26:11Jungti1234PSP?
07:26:15midkayautomatically making Rockbox nice on it? :)
07:26:19Paul_The_NerdPlaystation Portable.
07:26:28Paul_The_NerdI'm not a big Sony fan though.
07:26:38Jungti1234yes, that's game.....
07:26:49Paul_The_Nerdmidkay: Automatically making it the best thing for me to listen to quiet music in a quiet environment with.
07:27:16midkaynods
07:27:24Jungti1234Does rockbox make everything as is possible? haha..
07:27:39midkaythat didn't make much sense. :o
07:28:18 Quit damaki (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
07:28:58Jungti1234Reason that I doubt iriver's technique...
07:29:18Jungti1234They says that many things are impossible.
07:29:50midkaylike what?
07:30:11Jungti1234Even, thing which is supporting in Rockbox, says that they are impossible by hardware.
07:30:21midkaylike?
07:30:26Jungti1234Multi-tasking
07:31:19Jungti1234Can't see image while is listening to music.
07:31:39Jungti1234and
07:31:45midkaythey said that was impossible by *hardware*?
07:31:48Jungti1234yes
07:31:51midkaymaybe with their current setup, but certainly not hardware.
07:31:53midkaywhere can I read this?
07:32:16Jungti1234and, says that that mark sync of 7 line is impossible because of hardware.
07:32:40midkaymark sync of 7 line?
07:32:49Jungti1234lyrics
07:32:52Jungti12347 line lyrics
07:33:15midkaymark sync?
07:33:18Jungti1234and 6 line inclusion..
07:33:31Jungti1234ah, not sync. my mistake
07:33:35Jungti1234LDB lyrics.
07:33:48midkaycan i see where either of these are said?
07:33:57Jungti1234:) you know korean?
07:34:06midkayno..? :)
07:34:15midkaylink anyways?
07:34:17midkayi'll find a translator.
07:34:51Jungti1234plus they deleted my much post.
07:34:58Jungti1234my question
07:35:12midkaycan i see what they said?
07:35:17Jungti1234wait
07:36:22Jungti1234http://cafe.naver.com/iriverh300/1988
07:37:03Jungti1234http://service.iriver.co.kr/cs_question.asp?Page=1&SrchItem=uname&SrchString=%C1%A4%C5%C3%C0%CE
07:37:41Jungti1234They deleted all previous question on January 10, 2006.
07:38:49midkayah.
07:39:20Jungti1234We can't ask a question to them on weekend.
07:39:39Jungti1234can't write.
07:39:58midkayok...
07:40:06Jungti1234They play weekend joyfully with server.
07:40:08Jungti1234haha..
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07:44:55Jungti1234um. now, does rockbox support perfectly iriver's LCD remote?
07:45:10midkayperfectly? i suppose not...
07:45:21Jungti1234or..
07:45:24midkay(1) why? (2) why don't you try? don't you have a remote?
07:45:25Jungti1234works fine
07:45:32Jungti1234yep. 2
07:45:40midkayso why not just try and see?
07:45:40Jungti1234I don't have a remote.
07:45:49midkay..
07:45:53Jungti1234....
07:46:02midkaywell, i haven't tried it, but it's supposed to work fine.
07:46:03midkaywhy do you ask?
07:46:24Paul_The_NerdWhich LCD remote?
07:46:24Paul_The_NerdThere is the H100 and the H300 LCD remote.
07:46:29Paul_The_NerdThe H100 works perfectly.
07:46:39midkayperfectly?
07:46:41Jungti1234I must have reason?
07:46:43Paul_The_NerdSome people disagree with how the buttons are assigned on the H300 one.
07:46:53midkayJungti1234: random questions are kind of weird, you ask them a lot.. just curious.
07:47:09Jungti1234no
07:47:10Paul_The_Nerdmidkay: Well, there are one or two screens where it cannot be used. It works perfectly in the sense that everywhere it works, it works fine.
07:47:19Jungti1234I don;t ask much.
07:47:48midkayPaul_The_Nerd: so it could work at one screen "perfectly".. :)
07:47:53midkayJungti1234: um, whatever..
07:47:54Jungti1234And I don't talk much because I don't know well English.
07:48:14Paul_The_Nerdmidkay: I think it's down to one or two custom screens that it doesn't work. And plugins in which the author couldn't be bothered.
07:48:48midkayalright.
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08:21:58bernychHI, I'm doing an instrument tuner plugin and want to know how to get the last 2 seconds of data from the mic to compute my FTT on it.
08:22:21bernychIt's similar to the prerecording feature in the recording
08:23:40 Part cowmilk
08:25:02midkayi really don't know, but have you looked at the prerecording code? :)
08:32:32bernychYes, but there are almost only static functions and they are specific to recording
08:33:15*midkay shrugs, no idea then.
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08:52:13Jungti1234argh......
08:52:16Jungti1234very hot..
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09:00
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09:32:57Jungti1234midkay
09:33:06midkayyes?
09:33:22Jungti1234[14:20:03] <midkay> it's exact according to its scale, its scale is simply random.
09:33:24Jungti1234what's mean?
09:33:41midkayi mean you can't call iriver's scale "inexact".
09:33:49midkayit's just a fake scale.
09:34:01Jungti1234fake scale??
09:34:06Jungti1234fake?
09:35:47Jungti1234other words?
09:36:08midkaysigh, it's just.. never mind.. Rockbox uses decibels, iriver uses.. numbers.
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09:36:33Jungti1234just numbers?
09:37:25Jungti1234you mean which it means nothing?
09:40:34midkayit means nothing, right.
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09:45:00Jungti1234um
09:45:17Jungti1234Doesn't it mean 'volume'? :)
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09:57:19midkayalright.
09:59:33Jungti1234ah.......
09:59:37Jungti1234I don't know..
10:00
10:00:30Jungti1234I have to go to theater.. hehe
10:00:34Jungti1234bye
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10:15:25SlasheriAh, now the bootup is really fast with serialized dircache and tagcache, and rockbox in flash :)
10:16:01Slasherino disk access (scanning/loading) at all and tagcache is also loaded instantly to ram
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10:29:15amiconnSlasheri: How do you make _sure_ the dircache info is still valid?
10:29:20amiconnSounds like black magic
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10:32:25Slasheriamiconn: using the eeprom
10:32:51Slasherithat way we can be sure unless user has disconnected the hard drive physically
10:33:15Slasheriand then we can assume that user should know what he is doing
10:33:16amiconnWhat about the of?
10:33:25amiconnAnd what about rockbox crashes?
10:33:28Slasheriit's removed and rockbox is in flash
10:33:32Slasherithat works only without of
10:33:51Slasherithe eeprom flag is invalid until rockbox has been succesfully shutdown
10:33:57amiconnAnd if someone does rolo for of?
10:34:11Slasherithen it would be same as crash -> still invalid flag :)
10:34:46amiconnHmm. What happens if the dircache info doesn't match the disk contents, but rockbox doesn't detect that situation?
10:35:10*amiconn is really paranoid when it comes to data safety precautions
10:35:25Slasherihmm, basically read-only opened files might be corrupt, but that doesn't affect write operations (because dircache is not used then)
10:35:36Slasheriand of course dir contents might be incorrect also
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10:36:09amiconnThat's one (major) reason why I don't use dircache. I don't trust it...
10:37:10Slasheribut i think it should be as safe as cache updated on every boot (because only real situation for incorrect cache state would caused by manually disconnecting the drive or some other damage to the drive)
10:37:20amiconnTagcache is a totally different thing. If it doesn't work correctly, it doesn't corrupt data on the disk
10:37:34Slasheriyes, true
10:38:25Slasheriamiconn: but dircache itself cannot corrupt data on disk too (data going to the disk). It can only corrupt data coming out from the disk
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10:39:27dionoeahello
10:39:33amiconnhmm
10:39:39amiconndionoea: hello
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10:56:09amiconnSlasheri: Does dircache ensure that no info going _to_ the disk can be corrupted by wrong (cached) info coming _from_ the disk?
10:56:57amiconnWhat I mean is e.g. saving a file to a directory first scans the dir whether the filename already exists, in order to decide whether this is an overwrite or a new file
10:58:17amiconnSame goes for the shortname in case it's a new file, the code needs to make sure the shortname is unique
10:58:21Slasheriamiconn: dircache cannot corrupt the file in that situation, because files opened with O_RDWR or O_WRONLY does not go through the dircache at all
10:58:30linuxstbMikachu: (reading your comments in the logs) I've only got the 4g (greyscale and the Color/Photo) recording via the headphone socket (in mono). Both the 4gs and the 5g are recording in stereo via the line-in in the dock connector.
10:58:48Slasheriamiconn: only when opening files for O_RDONLY (or checking whether a file exists), dircache is used to speed up to locate the startcluster
10:59:27Slasheriand with an incorrect startcluster readed data can be wrong
11:00
11:00:19amiconnYeah. My point is: When opening a new file for writing, the code needs to scan the dir whether the filename already exists
11:00:30amiconnAnd if that scan goes through dircache...
11:01:24midkayif it'll need to spin up anyways, you may as well check the disk itself..
11:01:32Slasheritrue, so that can confuse the software.. it can overwrite an existing file even if rockbox thinks that while doesn't exist
11:02:27Slasheriamiconn: but it should be extremely rare for that to happen.. either when the previously mentioned conditions are met or there is a bug in dircache
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11:03:12amiconnWhat I fear more is that it might happen that the dir might end up having 2 entries with identical names
11:03:58amiconnThat should never happen, and what happens to win2k when it finds 2 identical shortname entries in a dir is known...
11:04:11Slasherihmm, that is not possible
11:04:35Slasherifile system code never uses dircache to find out if file already exists in that situation
11:04:54amiconnah, hmm.
11:05:13*linuxstb can't recall anyone reporting a corrupt disk due to dircache
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11:06:07Slasheriamiconn: if file is to be opened for writing, dircache is not used in any point during that process
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11:07:26linuxstbSlasheri: How much data can be stored in the eeprom?
11:08:33Slasherilinuxstb: 128 kbit
11:08:38Slasheriso not very much :)
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11:09:13Slasheriargh, no
11:09:17Slasherineed to check
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11:10:34Slasherilinuxstb: 1 kbit
11:10:43Slasheriso 128 bytes
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11:11:25linuxstbMore than the Archos RTC storage then (44 bytes).
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11:11:34Slasherihehe, true
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11:12:27Slashericurrently i haven't planned other use for the eeprom as the "intact disk" flag so there should be still many bytes free
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11:13:58linuxstbDoes the bootloader I installed last night set the "intact disk" flag, or will I need to upgrade?
11:14:17Slasherilinuxstb: you will need to upgrade :)
11:14:33Slasherii still need some testing and code clean-up with the eeprom driver
11:16:54amiconnSlasheri: I think the binary config data that will stay binary after the switch to .cfg files for most options should go to the eeprom too
11:17:13amiconnOn archos we'll (continue to) use the RTC RAM for this
11:17:22linuxstbI'm assuming the OF uses the eeprom?
11:17:23amiconnArchos recorders, that is
11:17:33amiconnlinuxstb: Yes it does
11:17:47Slasheriamiconn: hmm, that sounds good.
11:18:11Slasheribut true, there needs to be possibility to save the data on disk too because eeprom is not available if OF is still installed
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11:18:28Slasherifortunately rockbox can detect if rockbox has been flashed
11:18:41amiconnWe should check how much of the eeprom the of uses. Maybe it's doesn't use all of the eeprom
11:18:54amiconns/it's/it/
11:19:17Slasheriamiconn: hmm, at least all eeprom bytes was quite random binary data last time i checked..
11:20:07amiconnAdding the size of all binary cfg data I remember right now, we'd need 12 bytes
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11:24:45*amiconn suggest a better term for this data. It's not cfg data, but status information
11:24:59linuxstbSounds sensible.
11:25:11amiconnResume index, current runtime and top runtime
11:25:37amiconnThat's all stuff the user can't set (directly)
11:28:48Slasheriamiconn: Hmm, what about dircache size?
11:29:10Slasheriin fact that isn't needed then at all..
11:29:27Slasheribecause if rockbox is flashed, we can load the image from disk
11:29:41amiconndircache size (or the validity flag) is also status info
11:33:49amiconnrockbox being flashed probably won't be common on any of the newer targets soon, except H1x0
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11:34:32amiconnOn H300 we could technically do it, but the of is still necessary if you want to use usbotg
11:34:47amiconnOn ipod I don't see flashing happening any time soon
11:35:09amiconnX5 has the same problem as H300
11:35:50linuxstbWould you flash your h300? Or do you want usbotg?
11:35:52amiconnHmm, in fact rockbox on X5 already means the of isn't available (atm)
11:36:09amiconnlinuxstb: I want usbotg, otherwise I would flash asap
11:36:20*JdGordon came in late.. why are we flashing h300?
11:36:37linuxstbWe're not. But we're flashing h1x0s.
11:36:39amiconnJdGordon: Rockbox in flash means faster boot...
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11:37:01JdGordondoes that mean flashing it every time we want to upgrade?
11:37:09JdGordonor just removeing the of completly?
11:37:24amiconnYes it would mean flashing every time
11:37:39amiconn...but not the whole rom, as that would be dangerous
11:37:39Slasheribut doing the upgrade flashing is very simple and fast
11:37:45JdGordondont we need the of to do the flash?
11:37:48amiconnThe bootloader will stay the same
11:37:51linuxstbYou can still load a rockbox.iriver from disk by holding REC when booting.
11:37:57amiconnJdGordon: Nope.
11:38:01Slasherijust select rockbox.iriver -> open with -> iriver_flash and flash has been updated
11:38:16JdGordonoh ok, well if its possible now ill give it a try, my h300 is us and the usbotg mod didnt work
11:38:32amiconnSlasheri: You use the same image as when running from ram? why?
11:39:10Slasheriamiconn: currently there is some problems with audio playback when running directly from flash
11:39:22Slasherii am not sure what causes it but rockbox will crash in 30 minutes
11:39:26amiconnDid you try to use the 'catch mem accesses' feature?
11:39:36Slasherihmm, probably not
11:39:45Slasheribut i can try that soo
11:39:48Slasheri*soon
11:39:51amiconnMost often this is something trying to write to a data location which is declared 'const'
11:40:12*amiconn remembers debugging rom execution on archos
11:40:35amiconnSome things just failed "mysteriously"
11:41:25amiconnSlasheri: ROM execution requires a different link address. What's your approach for this?
11:44:23Slasheriamiconn: i have enabled the rom creation from Makefile and modified the rom.lds a bit
11:44:40amiconnok.
11:44:55amiconnWhat filename (extension) do you use for these files?
11:45:11*amiconn would prefer a unique cross-platform approach
11:45:27amiconnWhat about using .ucl? Did you look into this?
11:45:38Slasherii haven't yet planned that so far.. currently and first i was only planning to support the .iriver type of ram images only
11:45:50Slasheriand maybe in future the rom images too
11:45:54Slasheriucl sounds good
11:46:22amiconnIt could even support ucl compression (although it's not strictly necessary given the ROM size)
11:48:56JdGordonSlasheri: would it be possible to flash it back to the of or the current rb loader?
11:49:28amiconnThe flash plugins on archos do quite a lot of sanity checks to prevent accidental (and deliberate, to some degree) mis-flashing
11:51:36amiconnThese measures (reportedly) saved some user's boxes from bricking
11:51:43linuxstbDo the Archos plugins create a backup of the current flash contents?
11:52:27SlasheriJdGordon: it is possible to flash back (at least if you have taken the dump of the rom contents before), but currently that feature is not yet supported
11:52:39amiconnNot by themselves, but the flashing instructions recommend doing so before (by using the ROM dump feature in the debug menu)
11:53:34amiconnrockbox_flash in fact doesn't need to backup anything. Only the first time flash (firmware_flash) should be preceded by a ROM dump
11:53:52Slasheriand erasing/programming the whole flash at once always increases the risk to brick the unit
11:54:14linuxstbamiconn: How big are the voice files for the h1x0?
11:54:29amiconnlinuxstb: Same size as for archos (still)
11:54:34linuxstbSo about 1.5MB?
11:54:47amiconnYou _can_ use somewhat larger ones (I believe)
11:54:53linuxstbI was just wondering if there would be any advantage to storing them in flash.
11:55:05amiconnYes, although it should be more like 1.4MB for archos today :/
11:55:08linuxstbWe have about 1.6MB of unused space I think.
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11:55:43amiconnIt would make upgrading voice more difficult
11:56:03amiconnAlso, what if you want to change voice? Or have voices for more than 1 language?
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12:00
12:00:49linuxstbamiconn: Yes, I know there are disadvantages, but are there any advantages? Presumably it could save 1.5MB of the playback buffer if we played voice clips directly from flash. I'm just trying to think of possibly uses for the unused flash.
12:01:09amiconnA full unicode sysfont?
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12:05:15*amiconn thinks we need a solution for a "hybrid" sysfont (ascii part built in, other glyphs loaded from disk)
12:05:57amiconnThat will perhaps even save a bit of binary size. Today the sysfont is full iso8859-1.
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12:10:01JdGordonis the sysfont loaded form disk when rb starts? or is it compiled into the binary?
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12:13:19amiconnIt's compiled in
12:13:45amiconnOtherwise it would be impossible to display any messages when there's no font on disk... or in the bootloader
12:15:04JdGordonah, hmm.. that makes sense :p
12:15:36amiconnindeed
12:16:21amiconnThe disadvantage is that the sysfont is only iso8859-1, so it isn't possible to translate strings which are displayed using the sysfont into greek, or hebrew, or korean etc
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12:17:21JdGordoncould the bare minimum needed letters be compiled in and then fter boot load a fnt file for the sysfont?
12:17:32JdGordonfter = after
12:18:06amiconnBeing part of the binary, it's not possible to make the sysfont full unicode. But if we come up with a hybrid solution, we could even reduce the built-in part to pure ascii
12:18:17amiconn...as the internal error msgs are always englsih
12:19:05amiconnYou mean just "overloading" the built-in font with an on-disk version?
12:19:09JdGordonye
12:19:37amiconnHmm, that sounds like a relatively simple soluton. Requires a bit more font cache that reusing the built-in glyphs directly thoguh
12:19:43JdGordoncompile ascii into the binary, and then load any font they want after boot
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12:20:32JdGordondo we even really need two fonts?
12:20:36amiconnThe sysfont needs to be fixed width, and of a certain size (currently 8x6 on all targets). Otherwise a lot of layouts will break
12:21:34amiconnHmm, in fact you're right. We should try and make all screens in rockbox work with the user font
12:21:58amiconn...and then use the sysfont _only_ for "emergency" messages
12:22:14JdGordonno! bad idea!
12:22:21*JdGordon slaps self for putting that idea forward
12:22:29amiconnThis way we don't need a hybrid solution at all, and can still shorten the sysfont to ascii
12:22:41JdGordontoo much work making every screen scale to every font size
12:22:58amiconnI don't think it needs to be any size
12:23:14amiconnExtreme fonts will make things look weird
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12:23:58amiconnBut going through all screens and make them adapt to variable font size (and proportional fonts) will in fact also be a first step towards supporting multiple fonts
12:24:22JdGordonactually how many screens would need fixing?
12:24:38JdGordonwe dont have many graphical screens to begin with.. so its not that much work
12:24:47amiconnTwo things that come to mind: Status bar, keyboard
12:24:58amiconnOh, and button bar on archos recorders
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12:25:11JdGordonstatus bar needs pretying up anyay, and kb is a bit problem
12:25:16amiconn..and recording screen
12:26:19JdGordonok, so shrink the compiled font to ascii, and double the font buffer to hold 2 fonts, the sys font which is fixed size full unicode, and the user font which is what it is now
12:26:27amiconnThe recording screen code looks like one big hack...
12:27:34amiconnNow I'd rather say we should drop the full unicode sysfont idea, and work on making things work with the user font instead
12:28:02amiconnThings should become easier with viewports (e.g. the quickscreen, if we want to keep that)
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12:28:38safetydanequalizer ui needs fixing for non-sysfont
12:28:41*amiconn wants to work on viewports, but has so many other ideas he wants to work on
12:28:59amiconn...and even during holidays time is limited :(
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12:30:12Jazonhi all
12:30:21linuxstbhello.
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12:32:52JdGordonamiconn: "work on making things work with the user font instead" <- some screens it will be impossible to do for some fonts, the sys font is always nice to fall back on if the user font is too large..
12:33:17*JdGordon prefers the 3 font solution, if the sysfont buffer can be disabled for ppl who dont need unicode error messages
12:36:00dan_aMorning all. Does anyone know which bit of code draws the bar which goes across the screen at startup after the Rockbox logo has been shown?
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12:36:36JdGordonwhich bar?
12:36:47JdGordonyou mean the status bar?
12:37:21dan_aI might do - it shows between the Rockbox logo showing and the file browser coming up
12:37:46*JdGordon never noticed said bar
12:37:48linuxstbSounds like a bug... There should be no bar displayed.
12:37:49amiconnThere is none
12:38:08JdGordonlcd glitch?
12:38:18amiconnMaybe you observe the same thing as happens on the g4 and mini - the lcd showing a one pixel horizontal black bar,
12:38:19linuxstbdan_a: Does it also appear in the uisim?
12:38:20dan_aIt looks deliberate
12:38:29amiconnwhich slowly fades out over time
12:38:50amiconnThis is because rockbox doesn't shut down the lcd properly
12:39:10dan_aIt's about 10 pixels high, and grows from left to right across the screen
12:39:18amiconnhuh?
12:39:34dan_aI've not set up uisim at all yet, so I don't know
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12:41:12dan_aHmmmm... I'm really confused now. I'll check I didn't dream it!
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12:49:48JdGordonanywho... can someone look @ http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/5623 ? Linus likes it but wants a second opinion...
12:49:53dan_aNo, it seems that I completely imagined that bar
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13:02:17safetydanJdGordon, have you been running with that patch?
13:02:27JdGordonno
13:02:49JdGordoni had it on a while ago, works fine
13:02:59JdGordon.. im pretty sure it works fine
13:03:13safetydanah, confident you are yes
13:03:28JdGordon:) ye
13:03:54JdGordonit bassically formalises what was started in the playback code in a update a few weeks back
13:05:58***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
13:06:22safetydanhrmm... I'd review it better if I wasn't watching Iron Chef
13:14:57amiconnJdGordon: I wonder why the code gets bigger if it's supposed to reduce duplication
13:15:30amiconnAlso, comparing the .ucl size for recorder is futile. rockbox.ucl is compressed, so it doesn't tell anything about the real code size change
13:15:53amiconnEither compare rombox.ucl, or better directly compare rockbox.bin
13:21:08JdGordonamiconn: i compared the ucl because i thought the ucl was the equiv of .iriver..
13:21:39amiconnThe equivalent would be the .ajz, but that's still self-extracting on recorder v1
13:22:38amiconnReason: the archos firmware loads the .ajz when rockbox isn't flashed, but there's a 200KB size limit (recorder v1, and player though it's called archos.mod there)
13:22:54amiconnRecorder fm/v2 and Ondios have a 400KB size limit
13:25:39JdGordoni can do a proper comparisson now if you want
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13:35:48JdGordonamiconn:
13:35:48JdGordon-rwxr-xr-x 1 jonno users 226640 2006-08-05 21:37 rockbox.bin
13:35:49JdGordon-rwxr-xr-x 1 jonno users 226492 2006-08-05 21:35 rockbox.bin.cvs
13:36:25JdGordonso tiny increase... maybe the code can be simplified to shrink that, but 150bytes is acceptable no?
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13:37:10amiconnYeah, it's less increase than on iriver. SH1 code is quite compact in most cases.
13:37:23amiconnStill, I wonder why there is an increase at all.
13:37:59JdGordonbecause there is still some overhead...
13:39:14amiconnHow many places use the directory walk?
13:40:20JdGordonplaylist.c has it 3 maybe 4 times.. i tihnk thats it tho (i actually thought it was mroe than that when i did it)
13:40:39JdGordonlooking at the code it could be simplified a bit i tihnk
13:42:31JdGordonactually.. maybe not
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14:35:57Febslinuxstb, looks like you're making great progress on the ipod recording. Congratulations.
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14:39:07FebsHmmm. On the sound quality scale, is "sucks" better or worse than "a bag of shit"? http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=5637
14:40:43Mikachui would say sucks is a lot better than a bag of shit
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14:41:45Mikachubut SUCKS with lots of !! is also pretty bad
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14:42:30FebsThere's a "thumbs down" as well. Don't forget to take that into consideration.
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14:49:42Slasheriamiconn: i created a new file firmware/eeprom_settings.c that has a struct defined in eeprom_settings.h and two functions: eeprom_settings_load() and eeprom_settings_save() with crc32 checksum checking
14:50:43Slasheriboth functions are safe to use from bootloader also (those functions can't block)
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15:38:55Slasherihmm, just wondering what file would be the best place to put function detect_flashed_rockbox(). system.c?
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15:48:04FebsSeveral Mistic River users report loud crackle on startup with H3xx: http://www.misticriver.net/showthread.php?t=45110
15:49:28Slasherinice, now bootloader can pass it's own settings on the firmware_settings -struct (for example bootloader_version), and it can check if we want to load the default firmware from disk or flash (REC manually always inverts that behaviour)
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16:01:33leftrightFebs; on my H140 there is definately a one loud pop on startup and shutdown, but its also evident with Original Firmaware
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16:02:10Slasherileftright: hmm, is that with the headphone port and are you using the newest bootloader?
16:02:37leftrightheadphone port, but not new bootloader
16:02:47Slasheritry upgrade the bootloader
16:03:26leftrightok, didn't know there was a new one
16:04:00*leftright racks brains for bootloader procedure
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16:06:22FebsI'll ask the people reporting the problem what bootloader they are using and exactly when in the boot sequence the problem happens.
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16:08:23rasherI get a very very very faint noise, but not more than you'd expect when turning something on
16:08:37rasherh120, bootloader 6
16:09:10FebsMe too. But I recall in the past hearing something that is more of a screech occasionally. Hasn't happened recently though.
16:09:49rasherI get a sort of whooomp noise when using the reset button, but I doubt that's anyone's fault
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16:13:51JdGordonSlasheri: my h300 has a loud crackle/pop sound when i turn it on also
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16:15:51SlasheriJdGordon: hmm, do you have the newest bootloader on it? I am not sure about that unit but at least with H1xx too old bootloader causes a crack at the same time when pressing the power button
16:16:04JdGordonv5
16:16:20JdGordonye, its just as u turn it on
16:16:36JdGordoni never worried about it, but seen as febs brought it up i thought i may as well mention it
16:17:23JdGordonlol/wtf at the latest cvs commit...
16:17:27JdGordongwps-common.c
16:20:27leftrightver 6 is the latest bootloader right ?
16:21:21Jungti1234what's function is'Load to RAM' in tag cache option?
16:21:34JdGordonv6 for h1xx v5 for h3xx
16:21:36Jungti1234what function?
16:21:43JdGordonJungti1234: its the same as dircache
16:21:46leftrightstill a pop/crack on startup and shutdown, but as I said the original firmware does that too
16:21:48JdGordonit speeds up the id3 browser
16:21:58Jungti1234um.. what is id3 browser?
16:22:04Jungti1234see id3 database?
16:22:12rasherSlasheri: if the bootloader can pass stuff to Rockbox, would it be possible to pass presses on "play" (for resume)
16:22:21rasherSlasheri: so you can press "play, play" and not have to wait
16:23:07Jungti1234id3 browser is 'Show Files -> ID3 Database'?
16:23:12rasherJungti1234: yes
16:23:16Jungti1234ok
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16:25:29leftrightinfact the pop/crack on startup is worse with the original firmware
16:25:37Jungti1234and..
16:25:46Jungti1234what is 'Catch mem accesses' in debug menu?
16:25:59JdGordonignore it
16:26:10Jungti1234why
16:26:25Jungti1234Of course, I unuse it.
16:27:24Jungti1234but.... just curious
16:27:30Jungti1234please answer..
16:28:17JdGordonits a debugging tool, to tell you if you are accessing invalid memory, or something like that
16:28:23leftrightJungti1234: if you are not a programmer don't go to debug section, most of the stuff there is to assist developers
16:28:24rasherIt's something to do with catching memory accesses made to "wrong" parts of the memory or something. It helps debugging.. stuff
16:29:06rasherI like how festival pronounces "plugins" as "Plueg-ins"
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16:33:20*rasher files a bug on the Split filesize menu
16:35:02leftrightis there any point in having a boot logo, it just boots to fast, :>
16:35:54Jungti1234thanks all
16:35:55Jungti1234:)
16:36:12Jungti1234Very kind answer.
16:36:14rasherIt's gone quite fast. I barely get to see it. But then, when tagcache is committing, you get to marvel at its beauty.
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17:11:07Febsbluebrother, I've created a poll in the forums to get a sense of what percentage of Rockbox users read the manual: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=5655.0
17:12:06*dionoea just bough an ipod dock ... wonder if i haven't been wasting my money :)
17:15:18dionoealinuxstb: have you already tried having fun with the dock's IR thing ?
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17:34:39fungameHello all. I'm interested in updating Rockbox's Makefiles so that it will compile on Mac OS X. So far I've gotten the simulator working successfully. Can anyone give me some advice (or whether or not this a better question for the mailing list) on how I should change the makefile so that the patch gets accepted? :-)
17:40:20rasherfungame: I don't have much advice, but Bagder is definitely the man to get in touch with when it comes to makefiles
17:41:29fungamerasher: Do you have any idea when he's usually around?
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17:43:18rasherfungame: rasher.dk/rockbox/ircstats/">http://rasher.dk/rockbox/ircstats/ might help. Mostly worktime and late evening (GMT+2) on weekdays I think, and late evenings in weekends
17:43:43dionoeaany ipod hacker arround ?
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17:44:39fungamerasher: aha. Thats cool. Thanks :-)
17:45:00sharpehmm... i need to find something...
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17:47:13rasherHm, what's a good way to pad a string with spaces in shellscripting?
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17:48:00fungamerasher: " $SOMEVAR "
17:48:10fungamein bourne shell at least.
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17:49:30dionoealol, memory is full of C0EDBABE or CACAD0D0 on the ipod ... i wonder what that's due to
17:50:12rasherfungame: Sorry for not being clearer. I have a string that I want padded up to say, 10 characters. Is there an easy way to do this (without first finding the string's length)
17:50:32dionoeawith awk i guess ... /me should learn awk
17:50:48rasherI was trying to avoid invoking awk, actually
17:51:04rasherBut I guess that's one way
17:51:20fungamerasher: What tools are you willing to use?
17:51:25fungamerasher: completely in the shell?
17:51:36peturdionoea: in rb it's mostly DEADBEEF
17:52:03dionoeapetur: well this is reading memory at like 0xE0000000 and up (in rockbox)
17:52:12dionoeaand i can't find that anywhere in rockbox source
17:52:38rasherfungame: I don't know.. guess I'll just do it with awk (awk '{ printf(%10d, $1) }')
17:52:45peturmaybe the apple/ipl bootloader fills mem? does memtest?
17:52:56dionoeai don't have a clue :)
17:54:03sharpewell, it makes sense if it does... .:)
17:55:55dionoeain fact most addresses like 0xe???ffc are full of that
18:00
18:04:00dionoeahum, can rockbox freeze while reading stuff in memory ? (like somewhere arround 0x17FD.... ?)
18:06:44actionshrimpahhh that classic memory location
18:07:01dionoea? is that known ?
18:10:19peturdionoea: yes it can go wrong when reading non-existing locations (bus error)
18:11:00dionoeaok
18:11:05peturit will probably jump to some exception handler and I don't think it will recover
18:11:07dionoeasounds logical
18:13:12t0masiirc we have a reboot option in exception handlers
18:13:24t0maslike, press stop to reboot... or play
18:13:26t0masdon't remember which
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18:16:14RandyBearmmmm... just want to post something to the wiki... says I have to grovel here first??
18:16:26peturyes
18:16:30rasherPlay, I believe. At least on Iriver.
18:16:31RandyBeargrovel
18:16:37petur:)
18:16:44RandyBeardon't have much time to spend on this...
18:16:52rasherRandyBear: which user are you?
18:16:58RandyBearthis one
18:17:07rasherRandyBear?
18:17:10RandyBearyes
18:17:19RandyBearthat is me
18:17:22RandyBearmoi
18:17:27RandyBearmyself
18:17:32RandyBear< bow>
18:17:35rasherAnd is that, in fact, your real name? (I'm sorry, it's just that I've never heard "Bear" as a last name)
18:17:41RandyBearserious?
18:17:58rasherYes?
18:18:02RandyBearcheck a pfhone book
18:18:23peturthat depends where you live :)
18:18:32rasherYes, yes it does.
18:18:44rasheranyway, which page is it you have to edit?
18:18:48RandyBearmmm, well look, I have something to add to the wiki and I don't need a debate
18:18:54RandyBearthe mic preamp thing
18:19:01RandyBearawful
18:19:09RandyBearneeds revision
18:19:15RandyBearshould be a FET
18:19:24RandyBearanyhow it is incorrectly biased
18:19:42RandyBearwhich is why it should be a FET
18:19:54RandyBearbut if no one cares...
18:20:16rasherRandyBear: should work now
18:20:24RandyBearthanks much...
18:20:29RandyBearta
18:20:37rasherAt least if I did it right
18:20:59RandyBearbtw anyone know what the spec for the Rockbox 15 (V1??) wall wart was??
18:21:17rasherI think it's in the DeviceChart page
18:21:35RandyBearoh? where is that "device chart"?
18:21:38RandyBearin the wiki?
18:21:41rasherhttp://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/DeviceChart
18:21:47RandyBeargreat!
18:21:52rasher(and it is)
18:22:27rasherWonder if I should put my langstatus script (responsible for the table I just put on the LangFiles page) in cvs
18:23:36RandyBearlong as I'm at it... how about how to save/get copy of old Archos OS for backup before loading in Rockbox?
18:24:41rasherNo idea about that I'm afraid. I'm not an Archos man.
18:25:05dionoeaon a recorder ? are you planing on falshing it ?
18:25:42RandyBearperhaps... looking into it just now...
18:25:53RandyBearnot sure yet how it all works software wise
18:26:04RandyBearonly just got the thing a few weeks back
18:26:21RandyBearhave to make a hardware repair on the batt charger circuit yet
18:26:28RandyBearbut it is fun so far
18:27:33RandyBearno one?
18:27:43dionoeawell i don't know the new models
18:28:17RandyBearthis is an old model...
18:28:26RandyBearold Recorder...
18:28:31RandyBearRecorder 15
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18:28:42dionoeaRecorder v1 ?
18:28:42dionoeawith the blue bumbers ?
18:28:43RandyBearantique, uses two hamsters to run it
18:28:46dionoea:)
18:28:49RandyBearblack
18:29:49dionoeawell i have the v1 (which couldn't be flashed) and you just dropped the firmware file on the hard drive to load rockbox (and removed it if you didn't want it anymore). You can do that to start and flash rockbox once you're confident that you like it better than the crappy archos firmware
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18:45:59RandyBeartnx dio
18:46:31RandyBearnot sure i see the firmware file via USB...
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18:55:41dionoeaRandyBear: well the default firmware is in the flash. If you want to use new archos firmware, you just drop the file on the harddrive and it loads it from there (without overwriting the flash or anything)
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19:00:46dionoea"Data abort" ... neat :)
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19:31:09dionoeacool :) my ipod is doing alien sounds with the piezo :p
19:31:47dionoeahas anyone already tried using that as a speaker ?
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19:37:56Mikachunot for music, no
19:39:06peturany audacity users around that know about the envelope tool?
19:39:30dionoeaMikachu: any idea if that would be possible ?
19:39:45Mikachudionoea: i have no idea how often it lets you change the frequency
19:40:05dionoeayou'd need like 40000 Hz for music ?
19:40:28Mikachuit would be recognizable at 10000Hz too
19:40:43dionoeamy ipod is now sounding like a police car ... hehe
19:41:12obosingle voice midi??
19:41:14dionoeaMikachu: how would i check that ?
19:41:29dionoeajust experimenting ?
19:41:52Mikachuit also sounds hard to play a pcm sample on a device that takes 1/frequency as input
19:43:20peturthere used to be sound driver that let you play WAV on the pc speaker under windows
19:43:30petursounded horrible
19:43:42peturbut it was the best there was ;)
19:43:46Mikachuthat's because it has to yield the cpu, or the computer would lock up
19:43:49dionoeahorrible is better than nothing :)
19:43:52Mikachuand when it did, the pc speaker stopped getting data
19:44:05Mikachuyou would probably have to dedicate the cop if you wanted to actually use it
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19:44:25petursound cards were hard to get back then. midi was there but no wav
19:44:45petur(late eighties)
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19:45:27peturback when an at286 12MHz was awesome
19:45:28Slasherilinuxstb: i have a new bootloader ready for you soon ;)
19:46:16Mikachupetur: there is a driver for linux too of course
19:46:36dionoeahum, looks like i found a way to change the piezo's volume
19:46:46peturbut no more for recent wndows versions...
19:46:49Mikachureally?
19:47:06dionoeareally what ?
19:47:11Mikachuvolume
19:47:22dionoeawell yeah, i'll experiment a bit more
19:51:45dionoeaneat :) it's definitively doing something
19:52:12dionoeai'll have to do some kind of an interface to test ... recompiling everytime is a bit horrible
19:54:09obodionoea: FS #5111 - anything you can use there?
19:54:15dionoeai'll check
19:56:00dionoeaobo: no, it's just like ipodlinux' implementation. They OR the freq with 0x80800000
19:56:08oboI had a HZ to freq conversion in an earlier one (approx 91225/Hz )
19:56:12dionoeaand the freq is only on the last 2 bytes
19:56:30dionoeaso i'm trying to see what the first 2 bytes are used for
19:56:39dionoeaand it looks like it might be volume
19:57:46obonice :)
19:59:38*petur wonders if the h1x0 eeprom driver also works for h3x0
20:00
20:05:04dionoea0x00->0x79 == no sound, 0x80 == full volume up to 0xff == low volume
20:05:19dionoeai don't understand why that has to specified twice though
20:06:46Mikachuwhat happens if you use different values?
20:07:00dionoeahum, in fact all values ranging from 0x80 to 0xf0 sound the same
20:07:43dionoeaMikachu: that's what i'm about to test :)
20:14:42dionoeaok, it's weird
20:14:50dionoeaanyone want my test plugin to try and figure it out ?
20:15:49dionoeaone looks like a "master volume" while the other one does some fine tuning ... but it also ends up affecting the frequency
20:17:24dionoea(this would be nice for an alarm clock plugin)
20:18:21 Quit sando ("blargh")
20:18:22dionoeaok i get it
20:19:36dionoeaif |0x80000000 puts the volume on. &~0x80000000 shuts it off
20:19:51dionoea0x00??0000 influences the volume (and frequency?)
20:19:59dionoea0x0000???? is frequency stuff
20:20:17dionoeai don't know what the other stuff in the first byte might be used for
20:20:19Mikachumaybe it's 0x00?00000 and 0x000????? ?
20:20:38dionoealets see
20:21:00dionoea(but i doubt it given the volume change pattern)
20:21:18Mikachuyeah i haven't even looked at it, so just guessing
20:21:25dionoeayou have an ipod ?
20:21:37Mikachuyeah, i've played a bit with the piezo
20:21:42Mikachubut i used the code preglow wrote
20:21:54Mikachuwell, stole from ipl
20:21:55dionoeai can send you my test plugin code if you want
20:21:59Mikachusure
20:22:26dionoeadionoea/ipodtest.c">http://people.videolan.org/~dionoea/ipodtest.c
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20:25:29dionoea0x00?00000 doesn't sound like volume ...
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20:27:42dionoea0x000?0000 isn't related to frequency changing
20:28:16Mikachuso then it must be the other way around if 0x00??0000 changes both?
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20:30:20Mikachueverything above like b00 sounds the same to me
20:30:39dionoeab00 ?
20:31:57Mikachufor the frequency
20:32:04Mikachui think 'vol2' is the waveform
20:32:12RandyBearbye & tnx for the help
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20:32:26dionoeaMikachu: ffff definitively doesn't sound like 0b00 here
20:32:52Mikachunear the edges, it sounds sawtoothy, and in the middle it sonuds triangular
20:33:09dionoeahow can you make that out ?
20:33:19Mikachuand when you set it to 00 or ff it's completely flat maybe, so that would explain the silence
20:33:35Mikachuit sounds different?
20:34:34Mikachuless overtones in triangular
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20:35:21dionoeaok
20:35:34dionoeaso that leaves us with 7 useless bits in the first byte
20:37:42Mikachuthe msb turns it on?
20:38:04dionoeayep
20:38:05Mikachuit's possible they're just unused
20:38:13dionoeaseems so
20:39:23Mikachuhey uh
20:39:28Mikachuthe freq loops at 0x2000
20:39:35dionoeai was just about to say so :)
20:39:46dionoeafinger pressed on right :p
20:39:53Mikachuso i guess only &1fff affects the freq then
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20:40:44bluebrotherFebs, just came back and read the log.
20:40:48bluebrothernice poll.
20:41:18dionoeaso ffe000 would afect the wave form ?
20:41:50Mikachui guess it might
20:41:56Mikachutakes a while to try with your current interface
20:42:21dionoeait sounds like it does
20:42:25dionoeai'll upload new sources
20:42:34dionoeaMikachu: new sources uploaded
20:42:38Mikachuokay
20:45:19dionoeai'll have to try this thing on my neightboor's dog :D
20:45:22Mikachuhaha
20:46:03Mikachui think you limited the ?: field a bit weirdly now
20:46:07Mikachuit lets me set too large values
20:46:48dionoeayeah, the ? field is all messed up :)
20:46:55dionoeabut it's useless anyway
20:47:28Mikachuit's hard to tell if the extra precision field actually affects the waveform by ear
20:47:41dionoeait does
20:47:51dionoeaat least the sound changes continuously
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20:48:37dionoeawell maybe not
20:48:40Mikachuwell yeah, but it would if it had no effect too since the first two bytes change
20:49:00dionoeadoes anyone here have an ipod and a good microphone ?
20:52:55dionoeai can't hear frequencies 1->5
20:53:04Mikachui think it sort of overflows itself
20:53:45Mikachui can hear 5 but not 1-4
20:54:38dionoeahum, yay! i can hear 5 if i put my ear on the ipod's back
20:55:34dionoeawe must have pretty much figured it out i guess
20:57:07dionoeanow let's do a piano plugin :D
20:57:43dionoeaI'll add a comment to the piezo patch in FS
20:59:33Mikachui have some pics in qoscc but i can't make much sense of it
20:59:42dionoeacan i have a look ?
21:00
21:01:12Mikachuthe waveform changes radically depending on what part of the nano i hold over the mic
21:01:35dionoeaon top of the hearphone socket sems to be the best place
21:01:54Mikachui'm guessing you don't have a nano?
21:02:05dionoeano ... i have a video
21:02:16Mikachuthe earphone socket is nowhere near the piezo on a nano :)
21:02:28dionoeahehe
21:04:43Mikachuusing the sound card as an oscilloscope is not 100% satisfactory :)
21:04:49dionoea:)
21:04:58Mikachui can't notice anything for the extra 7bits anyway
21:06:08***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21:07:19Mikachudidn't look a bit triangular or sawtooth though :)
21:07:27dionoea:(
21:07:41Mikachubut i get like 3 data points per oscillation so it's hard to tell
21:07:59dionoeawhat if you lower the frequency ?
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21:12:21Mikachuat 1fff, the frequency is low enough to clearly see every 'click' on the screen
21:12:39Mikachuso the tones are formed like closing a zipper quickly, nothing pure about it :)
21:14:20dionoea:)
21:15:18MikachuOH
21:15:26Mikachuthere appears to be two clicks
21:15:33Mikachuthe vol2 sets the time difference between them
21:15:42Mikachuat 80, they are more or less at the same time
21:16:31dionoeai added a comment on http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/5111
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21:18:09Mikachuscratch that
21:18:19Mikachuat 00/ff they are exactly at the same time and cancel out, it looks like
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21:18:30Mikachuat 80, the extra click is right between two normal clicks
21:21:07Mikachudionoea: here it is set to 80 http://mikachu.ath.cx/piezo80.png
21:21:18Mikachuthat is 80 in the final command
21:22:07Mikachuand the frequency very low of course
21:22:53dionoeawhat if you change the waveform thing ?
21:22:59dionoeahow does it change the graph ?
21:23:10Mikachuthat's what i just explained
21:23:25Mikachuevery second click moves relative to the other set
21:23:34Mikachuat 00 they overlap exactly and seem to cancel out
21:23:47dionoeaoh, ok :)
21:24:28Mikachui think i would need an actual oscilloscope and better mic to say anything more
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21:25:24dionoeayep. I guess that some people here have some
21:25:31dionoealets hope that they read this :)
21:26:01dionoeanow i can try sending random commands to some other device on the ipod (and hope that it doesn't break)
21:26:06Mikachuwhen i looked at higher frequencies, it also just looked like every second top was moving
21:26:30Mikachui'm not exactly sure why you would want to do such a thing
21:26:50dionoeame neither :)
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21:41:26dionoeawhat does I2S mean ?
21:41:40Mikachui only know i2c
21:41:44Mikachusome context?
21:41:50Mikachuis it about the lang strings?
21:42:36dionoeanope, it's on http://ipodlinux.org/PP5020
21:42:38dionoeasome device
21:50:57Bgerhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I2S
21:51:18bluebrotherInter-IC Sound
21:51:29dionoeathanks :)
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21:52:21dionoeasome more questions: did anyone already try using the IR port on the apple dock with rockbox ?
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23:14:10ShadowdogMUlinuxstb around?
23:14:17ShadowdogMUactually, nevermind
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23:57:53dionoeaMikachu: are you still around ?
23:58:07dionoeajust found something weird, 3 other addresses can control the piezo
23:58:39dionoeai don't know why they'd have 4 different addresses to do that ... if anyone has a clue ...

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