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#rockbox log for 2006-08-14

00:00:37*preglow raises hand
00:02:10linuxstbBagder: Yes, I found the Samsung info - forgot to put it on the page. I couldn't find any SDRAM chips though...
00:02:10Bagdera complete 43 page data sheet there too
00:03:11 Join juxtap [0] (
00:03:16 Quit Febs (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:03:18 Join Febs [0] (
00:03:30Bagderwell, it has 64K internal sram ;-)
00:04:24linuxstbYep :)
00:04:35linuxstbBut my current problem is I can't find any firmware...
00:04:55linuxstbSo I'm stuck.
00:05:36linuxstbDid you read my comments early about the odd FAT16 disk image?
00:05:44Bagderyeps, I noticed
00:05:59Paul_The_NerdIs it definitely firmware upgradeable?
00:06:08Paul_The_NerdEvery now and then a company decides that they just got it right, and don't bother with such a feature.
00:06:40linuxstbPaul_The_Nerd: I've no idea...
00:06:44Bagderlinuxstb: did you 'strings' it?
00:07:09Bagderthere ought to be some strings in a firmware
00:07:48Bagderother than so, I would expect that you can scan for an ARM exception table by assuming a few jump instructions in a row
00:07:52linuxstbYes, I can't see anything in the disk image. I managed to extract all those "hidden" files, and they are just MP3 files and the database. Nothing that looks like a firmware, not even encrypted.
00:08:23Bagderbut perhaps the firmware is in a part of the flash that you don't read with the ums
00:08:38preglowmore than likely
00:08:40 Join matsl [0] (
00:08:51linuxstbYes, I'm guessing the upgrade (if possible) is done via MTP, or even something lower-level than that.
00:09:06 Join Rudy4Pez [0] (
00:09:16Bagderor possibly there's an upgrade mode that exposes another part of the flash as disk
00:09:36 Quit bluebrother ("Leaving")
00:09:46 Join fatherfork [0] (
00:09:53qwmanyone here who can tell me what uevent (part of udev?) is?
00:14:20 Quit bilbravo (Remote closed the connection)
00:15:32 Quit pike ()
00:15:46 Join pike [0] (
00:17:40 Quit Massa ("I cna ytpe 300 wrods pre mniuet!!!")
00:18:48 Quit Hansmaulwurf ("( :: NoNameScript 3.81 :: )")
00:20:42 Quit BHSPitMonkey (Remote closed the connection)
00:24:28 Join Febs_ [0] (
00:25:00 Quit Febs (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:25:56 Quit freqmod (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:26:42 Nick Febs_ is now known as Febs (
00:27:05peturSlasheri: you said the eeprom is very picky re bus access yet I don't see you disable irq's - I'm going to try that now...
00:27:23linuxstbBagder: Reading the telechips page more closely, the TCC77x includes 1MB flash, and 2MB SDRAM, as well as the 64KB of SRAM. So not too shabby.
00:27:56Bagderand a boot rom too
00:28:31linuxstbIf only I could find a firmware...
00:29:03preglowthere probably isn't one yet
00:37:54 Join TCK [0] (
00:38:40 Quit fatherfork ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
00:41:30markunlinuxstb: did you write them an email to ask for a firware update yet?
00:42:09 Join senab [0] (
00:42:12linuxstbI'm not even 100% sure who makes them...
00:42:29linuxstbBut I suppose I could try CCTech.
00:43:38 Quit senab (Client Quit)
00:44:56FebsDamn, it takes a long time to back up a 200GB drive.
00:53:35 Join qwx [0] (
00:55:33 Join BHSPitMonkey [0] (
01:03:42 Quit qwx ("leaving")
01:05:53 Join LinusN [0] (n=linus@rockbox/developer/LinusN)
01:05:54 Quit mkey (""Welcome to IRC; Where men are men, women are men and little girls are FBI agents!"")
01:07:21 Join sharpe [0] (
01:08:21 Quit qwm (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:09:34 Join safetydan [0] (
01:10:19FebsGreetings safetydan. How goes the hardware EQ?
01:10:21***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:10:35safetydanFebs, pretty much the same as it was last time you tried it.
01:11:04sharpestill the same chance of it breaking into two?
01:11:18safetydanI think the UI bits are working okay now at least.
01:11:27 Join Arathis_ [0] (
01:12:58 Quit matsl ("Leaving")
01:13:08 Quit ender` (" The Web is a procrastination apparatus: It can absorb as much time as is required to ensure that you won't get any real work")
01:15:51safetydansharpe, actually it seems well behaved enough to not break things or even shatter them.
01:16:03sharpethat's always a good thing.
01:18:51 Quit Arathis (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
01:22:34preglowhas any scheme been agreed upon? shall we allow both sw and hw eq?
01:24:01safetydanpreglow, it's easy enough to allow both so... that's what we'll do. Or at least, that's what I'm doing.
01:26:38 Quit TeaSea ("Leaving")
01:29:34safetydanHow many devs have iPod Video's?
01:30:03sharpei'm not a dev, but i do own one. :)
01:30:26LinusNi have one
01:33:22 Part LinusN
01:33:23BHSPitMonkeylinuxstb has one
01:34:08 Quit Daishi (Remote closed the connection)
01:35:42safetydanBHSPitMonkey: yeah I know, just checking to see if anyone else had one.
01:35:48safetydanNeed more devs :)
01:36:11BHSPitMonkeyI have one, but I'm by no means a dev ;)
01:36:45BHSPitMonkeyI'd like to get there someday, though
01:37:16 Join lodesi_ [0] (
01:39:15safetydanHow about today? Can't be anything more important that you're doing right now right? :)
01:40:07sharpeis it kind of funny i'm using a piece of software i found by googling for my nick? :)
01:43:07 Join dpassen1 [0] (n=dpassen1@resnet-236-163.resnet.UMBC.EDU)
01:50:49 Quit lodesi (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:58:19 Part pixelma
02:04:13 Quit Bger (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
02:04:38apo`[01:40:07] <sharpe> is it kind of funny i'm using a piece of software i found by googling for my nick? :) < Heh
02:05:18apo`What does it do? :P
02:05:47sharpeoh, SharpE, tis an alternate shell for windows.
02:06:00sharpeit feels weird going into the irc channel with the same nickname.
02:06:00apo`URL? i believe.
02:06:26apo`Seems right
02:07:50 Quit petur ("Zzzz")
02:08:23apo`20mb Oo
02:08:27apo`That's rare
02:08:38apo`Most shells I've seen only have ~2-8mb
02:09:59apo`I dunno why I'm even getting a new shell for windows, I'll get Ubuntu in a few days anyway :P
02:11:10 Join fatherfork [0] (
02:11:57sharpehaha. i use windows for compatibility reasons.
02:12:50apo`Well, I'll probably have windows on this notebook and Ubuntu + Win on my desktop PC (which is being repaired atm)
02:16:22sharpei just had an issue with the latest beta release of it, which is why i visited the irc channel.
02:16:31sharpeof SharpE that is.
02:16:45 Quit pike (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:17:00apo`Bah. Why do they always want me to reboot?
02:17:11apo`Closing explorer and starting sharpE is so much easier
02:17:30Mikachu"You have started your computer, please reboot"
02:18:01*sharpe expects a windows joke to be made.
02:18:05apo`You have moved your mouse. Please reboot for the changes to take effect.
02:18:32MikachuYou have rebooted. Please reboot.
02:21:19fatherforkBill Gates is a moron, please reboot.
02:21:37sharpethere we go. :D
02:22:11fatherfork::enter boot loop::
02:25:50 Join [HO]volt [0] (
02:27:31[HO]volthello, i'm looking for a Recorder v2 / FM recorder that needs a hard drive and perhaps a battery. does anyone around here have anything for me?
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02:40:13 Quit Nibbler (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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02:41:19 Nick Arathis_ is now known as Arathis (
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02:45:44 Quit scott666 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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02:49:45 Quit Seed (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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02:52:57 Quit fatherfork ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
03:03:55[HO]voltare irivers hard drives upgradeable
03:05:32[HO]voltdo you own a hd?
03:05:38[HO]volta iriver
03:07:11 Quit nudelyn2 ("At Argon, we're working to keep your money.")
03:07:29[HO]voltbasically i have a recorder v2 and upgraded 60gb hdd. can i have your opinion on what to do? i'm thinking about buying a 5gb h10 and switching out the hdd
03:08:01JdGordondoesnt the recorder use the 2.5" laptop hdds?
03:08:09JdGordoniriver uses 1.8"
03:08:13JdGordonso they wont fit..
03:08:21JdGordonactually, im not even sure what the h10 uses
03:08:35[HO]volti see, yes the recorder uses 2.5" drives
03:08:36Paul_The_NerdThe H10 uses some non-standard connector for its HD
03:08:44 Join lodesi [0] (
03:08:47 Quit Kohlrabi ("Quit")
03:09:07Paul_The_NerdMost people will assume you're asking about H100 or H300 if you ask about iRiver around here.
03:09:19Paul_The_NerdAlso I believe the 5/6gb H10s use 0.85 drives even.
03:09:46[HO]volti see - is the H10 != h100 ?
03:10:25***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
03:10:33[HO]volti dont know anything about iriver.
03:10:43 Nick Nibbler is now known as Nibbier (
03:11:20safetydanYup, H10 is not the same as the H100
03:11:27safetydanoddly enough, the H100 and H300 series are older models
03:11:44Paul_The_NerdAnd the H10 has 5/6gb models and 20gb models, which I believe use different physical sizes of HD
03:11:54[HO]volti see. which is why i can't find them anywhere on iriver's site (though i havent looked very hard)
03:12:11JdGordonye, they dont selln them anymore
03:12:51[HO]volti understand. so basically the only thing i can do is get another 2.5" based player - which would probably have to be a archos player or recorder
03:13:10[HO]voltor sell the 60gb and go with something new.
03:13:36 Quit JoeBorn (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
03:14:07[HO]volti have like 30gb of music and i dont want to trim down. any high-capacity suggestions without huge prices?
03:14:47safetydanEither iPod or iAudio X5 probably
03:15:43[HO]voltand of course that is too small to be the 2.5" drive
03:18:51 Quit rotator ("rebooting")
03:21:26 Quit lodesi_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
03:27:40 Join vo|t [0] (
03:33:05 Quit Nibbier (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
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03:43:03 Quit Arathis ()
03:45:43 Join BigMac [0] (
03:47:44BigMacalright heres the problem ive been having and i cant figure it out. whenever i try to use any plugin it says incompatible version and doesn't load. what do i do oh gurus of rockbox wizdoms:-)
03:48:52sharpebe sure you extract everything in the zip to your player.
03:49:13sharpeand not just the firmware...
03:49:33BigMaci have it all on their
03:50:29BigMacyah its all on there...
03:51:23sharpeyou're extracting everything in the build zip?
03:51:51BigMacno this has been on my ipod for a long time
03:52:20BigMacall i have done was when video first came out i put it on to test, then just changed it all back
03:52:46sharpewhy keep the same build on your ipod for a long time?
03:53:04BigMacbecause i like it
03:53:20BigMacmaybe i should reapply it?
03:53:27 Join pike [0] (
03:53:27BigMacthink that may fix it?
03:54:03BigMack ill brb guys im going to seven eleven
03:54:08sharpe... yes, re-extract it.
03:57:43safetydanhrmm... a couple of people taking about what looks like the floor0 ogg issue raising its head again
03:57:46safetydanI thought that was fixed?
03:58:40 Quit Nibbier (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
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03:59:51 Quit PyromancerX (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
04:00:04Paul_The_Nerdsafetydan: I never asked if they were using the newest build of Rockbox. Maybe you should have them confirm that?
04:04:55 Join JoeBorn [0] (
04:08:58 Quit JoeBorn (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
04:10:35safetydanPaul_The_Nerd, if it was fixed, it was months and months ago.
04:14:56FebsMy god, another idiot on head-fi is claiming he can hear a difference between lossless and .wav.
04:15:11Mikachumaybe he plugged in his cable backwards
04:15:58BigMacif its lossless and wav is lossless...then how can they be different?
04:16:13FebsThat's the smartest thing you've ever written here.
04:16:16BigMaci can't tell the difference though anyways
04:16:20BigMacthank you i try
04:16:24apo`Perhaps he first compressed the wav to 64kbps MP3 and then to some lossless format :P
04:17:21FebsNot surprisingly, he refuses to do a simple Foobar ABX.
04:17:43Mikachumaybe he needs some of these
04:17:46 Join dongs [0] (
04:19:12apo`I read that as phallograph
04:19:38safetydan"I didn't say a "big" difference. I said a clearly obvious one." Does that sentence strike anyone else as funny?
04:20:04Mikachuthis is the lossless guy?
04:20:41 Quit lodesi (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
04:20:54apo`safetydan: :D
04:20:55Mikachuif it's flac, maybe it's replaygained?
04:21:14safetydanNo it was ALE vs. WAV
04:24:34dongslol lossless.
04:26:37 Quit TCK (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
04:26:46 Quit sucka ("( :: NoNameScript 4.01 :: )")
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05:04:25 Quit Planetary (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
05:08:02 Quit XavierGr ()
05:10:27***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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05:22:36 Part safetydan
05:36:56 Join RoC_MM [0] (
05:48:34 Join EbErT [0] (
05:56:29BigMacfor 5 dollars today at the animal planet exhibit, i got on my hands and knees in front of the entire park and drank from the dog bowl
05:57:03BigMacwrong channel
05:58:08 Quit RoC_MM ("Leaving")
05:58:45EbErTwhoa, just saw someone is working on mpeg playback on ipod photos
05:58:57EbErTdoes it work to some extent already?
05:59:06Paul_The_NerdIt's on all color Rockbox targets, and yes
05:59:08Paul_The_NerdNo sound yet.
05:59:39EbErTwhich format of mpeg's? i'm not really familiar with that
05:59:59Mikachuraw mpeg1/2 video
06:00:07Mikachuusually called .m1v and .m2v
06:00:32EbErTi don' t think i have those. do they have sound in them as well?
06:01:03Mikachu... no
06:01:19Mikachu"<Paul_The_Nerd> No sound yet." + "<Mikachu> raw mpeg1/2 video" = no sound
06:01:21EbErTso you have to convert to that format most of the time
06:03:04EbErTi guess that is easy enough
06:05:59EbErThaha, ebay put a tiled view of photos on a pic of a 3g ipod
06:16:28BigMacdoes apple firmware on the 5g support ebooks?
06:16:56sharpeas far as i know it supports, text files.
06:16:58Paul_The_NerdDo you mean Audiobooks, or eBooks (text)
06:19:17 Quit kev_ ("Chatzilla 0.9.73 [Firefox]")
06:19:20BigMacebooks unless there is a way to go from pdf to audiobook that i dont know about
06:20:00Paul_The_NerdI don't believe there's anything beyond a basic text viewer in the Apple firmware
06:20:26EbErTaround what fps are you guys getting on video playback in the mpeg plugin
06:20:35EbErTjust curious, if u know
06:20:37sharpeEbErT: depends on the video size
06:20:39BigMaci get like 9
06:20:42Paul_The_Nerd20ish here
06:20:46sharperesolution, anyway.
06:20:47BigMacon full screen
06:21:05EbErTwhat's the highest you've gotten, sharpe
06:21:30BigMacim going to boston on tuesday and would really like to read this pdf
06:21:41sharpeah, 7-8fps on 320x240.
06:21:51EbErTk :)
06:22:12Paul_The_NerdBigMac: Then bring a computer, or print it out.
06:22:19EbErTim going to boston first time over labor day weekend
06:22:49apo`Copy paste it into a textfile
06:23:09Paul_The_NerdActually, ~24 fps right now
06:23:22Paul_The_NerdOh, no, 18 after it actually got started
06:23:23*Paul_The_Nerd shrugs
06:24:08BigMacpaul:no laptop and it is like 120 pages long
06:24:19sharpeoffice depot!
06:24:37EbErThow are u getting higher than everyone else, Paul_The_Nerd
06:24:39BigMacand apo, i cant read the text files on the ipod i get dizzy
06:24:40apo`You wanna read _that_ on the screen of an iPod/whatver?
06:25:09sharpeEbErT: he has an ipod nano...
06:25:09BigMacsharpe:how much does office depot charge per page?
06:25:14EbErTthis is a job for big kinko's printers
06:25:17Paul_The_NerdEbErT: iPod Nano
06:25:27EbErTah, no fair
06:25:34sharpeBigMac: let me figure...
06:25:36BigMacPaul_The_Nerddidn't think you were an ipod kinda guy
06:25:40EbErTur soo lucky to watch on that size screen
06:26:06 Join aegray_ [0] (n=aegray@
06:26:07BigMacebert, you do know you could make the video that dimension right
06:26:10EbErTi'm not either, but i like the size/space of 60g ipod
06:26:15EbErTwanna get an archos sometime
06:26:17BigMacand pretend your watching it on the nano
06:26:28EbErTi was being sarcastic, but yes i knew that
06:26:29Paul_The_NerdBigMac: I'm not a fan of the fullsize iPods... you pay too much just for style, and lose out on useful functions. But the Nano was acceptable at price/size/feature, and was really the only 4-gig flash player at the time.
06:26:54BigMaci love the sansa e200 series
06:27:04BigMacthere nice cheap flash and have video
06:27:06EbErTanyone have an archos 300-500?
06:27:17Paul_The_NerdI kinda wish I couldn't hear the noise when the LED on the Sansa's wheel lit up.
06:27:34BigMacand the ipod 5g costs the same as all the other video players with its capabilities
06:27:47BigMacyou have one paul?
06:27:49Paul_The_NerdI think though that the Sansa will be much nicer with Rockbox... its interface feels really slow to me in the retail firmware.
06:28:05BigMacan e200
06:28:22BigMacis it as nice as it looks
06:29:05Paul_The_NerdIt doesn't scratch as easily as the Nano
06:29:21Paul_The_NerdIt has a quite nice screen, though the viewing angle isn't great. It works fine when you turn it sideways for video though
06:29:26BigMaci would have gotten one if it supported rockbox
06:29:29Paul_The_NerdThe retail firmware is just annoying though.
06:29:41BigMacreally? it looked nice
06:29:53Paul_The_NerdIt's slow.
06:30:01Paul_The_NerdWhen you play all music, it always starts on the same song.
06:30:19sharpeit likes to be consistent.
06:30:25Paul_The_NerdAnd I'm not quite sure how to force it to play tracks in track-order.
06:30:42Paul_The_NerdRockbox has certainly spoiled me.
06:31:01Paul_The_NerdAlso, if you use it in UMS mode, it takes like, 10 minutes+ to update the database after connecting to a computer
06:31:30BigMaci was scared today
06:31:47BigMaci realized how important rockbox is to me when it wasnt working today
06:32:07BigMacbecause i have no songs in the apple firmware
06:32:20BigMacand couldnt acsess rockbox
06:32:48sharpeyou couldn't reset your ipod?
06:33:37BigMaci could, but it wasnt letting me accsess rockbox because i changed the name of my rockbox.ipod
06:33:52BigMacso itd error then revert to apple firmware
06:33:56sharpewhy would you do that?
06:34:04BigMacso i could try the videos
06:34:32Paul_The_NerdI don't understand why renaming rockbox.ipod will let you try videos...
06:34:36BigMaca nice feature would be able to rename files on the ipod
06:34:43BigMacbecause i run jbuild
06:34:54BigMacso i put on the current source to test it
06:34:57sharpeoh, that's why you asked that earlier...
06:34:59BigMacthen deleted it
06:35:13BigMacand never changed it back
06:35:24Paul_The_NerdYou can rename files on the iPod...
06:35:47Paul_The_NerdIt's right there in the context menu.
06:36:02BigMacoh really...
06:36:12sharpei think he means in the retail firmware...
06:36:34BigMac[embarrassed]no i didnt[/embarassed]
06:36:43Paul_The_NerdAs I've said *many* times, you should read the manual
06:37:03sharpeBigMac: have you just never used the context menu?
06:37:43BigMacprobably have just dont recognize the name
06:38:08BigMacand paul, i usually dont have enough time to read a 800 page book
06:38:22BigMacespecially when im usually not at my computer
06:38:23sharpethat's not right. it's only a few more than 100.
06:38:38BigMacunder the daily build?
06:38:53BigMacit says 800 something i thought
06:39:01sharpethat's the file size...
06:40:08BigMac...yah thats what i meant...
06:40:23BigMacwell if i get a chance i will
06:40:32BigMacbut i recently got a job at a printshop
06:42:16BigMacanyone know a way that i can select a color and get its hexidecimal number
06:42:20Paul_The_NerdYeah, like 120pgs
06:42:38Paul_The_NerdYou can also search it before saying you'd like to see a feature.
06:42:41BigMacim sorry
06:42:41Paul_The_NerdLike, search for "rename"
06:42:57sharpeBigMac: you mean a html color chart, as they're commonly called?
06:43:00Paul_The_NerdAs for getting the hex for a color: Take a screenshot, go into your program of choice, and use the eyedropper tool
06:43:20BigMacwill that give me the hexidecimal?
06:43:36Paul_The_NerdIf your program gives you the hex of the current color.
06:43:54Paul_The_NerdIt may give it to you in decimal, in which case you just convert the R G and B values from base 10 to base 16 and put them together in that order.
06:44:54BigMack i can do that actually:-)
06:46:29BigMacim working on my wps, and it says foreground color, what does that change?
06:46:54sharpetext color.
06:47:44BigMack thats what i thought
06:47:53BigMacnow to find a nice looking color
06:47:59sharpehot pink.
06:48:31BigMacidk if itd look good
06:48:42BigMacill check it out
06:49:04sharpewhat about white? can't go wrong with white. except on a white background. same deal as with black.
06:49:36BigMacits already white
06:49:41BigMaci dont like it
06:49:46BigMaci want it to stick out
06:50:00BigMaci was thinking of a a chromish color
06:50:02sharpewell, what color is the background?
06:50:28BigMacits an image
06:50:44BigMacdo you want to see it? i think i have it in my photobucket
06:50:54sharpeum. sure.
06:53:23 Join telliott_ [0] (
06:53:45BigMacwhile you check it out ill be changing the code
06:53:59sharpeah. so i'm guessing it's based off of black glass, eh?
06:54:22BHSPitMonkeyBigMac, implemented?
06:54:27BigMacbut im not done
06:54:34telliott_HELP! How do I get rid of #EXTINF lines from my playlist (generated by Winamp) without manual editing?
06:54:47BHSPitMonkeyBigMac, I think you need to wash out the background
06:54:54BigMacuse foobar
06:54:56BHSPitMonkeycrank down the contrast, and then brighten or darken it
06:54:58Paul_The_Nerdtelliott_: Don't use winamp. :-P
06:55:15BigMacfoobar is very easy to ue
06:55:17BHSPitMonkeyBigMac, not very tradable
06:55:21BigMacand free
06:55:27BHSPitMonkey<3 foobar
06:55:31BigMacme too
06:55:34BHSPitMonkeyI keep it installed on my iPod
06:55:35BigMacits sooo easy
06:55:35BHSPitMonkeycause it's portable
06:55:53BHSPitMonkeycan take it to school, plug it in, start foobar, and start playing or transferring
06:56:06telliott_I just had to likk the power on my Archos. It was chewing through all those lines trying to shuffel. I am beginning to really hate Winamp.
06:56:09 Join midgey34 [0] (
06:56:12BigMaci can copy songs anywhere
06:56:53 Quit Febs (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
06:57:00BigMacdont need teh foobar
06:57:06BigMacim tight on space anywere
06:57:27telliott_Will foobar clean up the playlist I have?
06:57:28BigMacso what do you think i should do sharpe
06:57:54sharpewell. can't really use a blue color... nor a white...
06:58:43sharpeblack wouldn't fit well with the date on top.
06:58:47BigMacwhat about FF0099?
06:59:20sharpehot pink, go for it. :)
06:59:33BigMacthink itll look nice?
06:59:48BigMacwell whats the worse that could happen i can always change it back
06:59:54sharpeit'd definitely stand out.
07:00:00BigMaci want to put the vista font on
07:00:10BigMacbut cant seem to get fontforge running
07:00:34Paul_The_NerdWouldn't the vista font be copyrighted?
07:00:37 Part telliott_
07:00:42BigMacsegoe ui?
07:00:46BigMacdont think so
07:01:38BigMacdidnt work
07:01:42BigMacstayed white
07:02:05sharpehave you re-loaded the wps/theme?
07:02:11BigMacmaybe its O not zero?
07:02:57sharpethere are no 'oh' hexadecimal characters, only zeros.
07:03:21BigMacyou mean i have to load the theme again after i start up?
07:03:46Paul_The_NerdSegoe UI is only available from Microsoft. I doubt the license makes it redistributable.
07:04:56BigMaci didnt get mine from microsoft?
07:05:16Paul_The_NerdWell, that's where its source is.
07:05:33Paul_The_NerdSo wherever you got it from probably didn't have a license to redistribute it either, unless it's clearly under a license that says so.
07:05:38Paul_The_NerdWhich would be uncommon of MS
07:05:51BigMacwell it doesnt matter anyway because i cant use fontforge
07:07:17BigMaccant edit this layer!
07:08:10BigMacanyone want to do a scavenger hunt with me?
07:10:28***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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07:12:30BigMaccant find a good color:-(
07:13:16BigMaci want something like the color of the crest spinbrush handle
07:15:01 Part Paul_The_Nerd
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07:19:32sharpePaul_The_Nerd! You have no idea what you missed in that span of three minutes.
07:20:46Paul_The_NerdI'm sure it was epic.
07:20:50Paul_The_NerdAnd magically obscured from the logs.
07:21:41BigMacsharpe is that a color and if so what does it look like?
07:22:05sharpethat's a purpleish color similar to the crest spinbrush handle.
07:24:54BigMaci was talking more like this one with the silver handle
07:25:58Paul_The_NerdWell you can't really do silver with just a single shade.
07:26:07Paul_The_NerdAll you can do is "gray"
07:26:49sharpeor "grey," although they are the same color.
07:27:11BigMaci was looking for more of a white with a grey tint
07:27:14BigMaclike chrome
07:27:28Paul_The_NerdYou mean... really light gray?
07:27:35BigMacbut w/e i can deal just trying to make it more then a simple mod
07:27:44sharpetry, e0e0e0 ...
07:28:29midkaywhy don't you just open up paint or something and try it yourself?
07:28:34midkaylight gray, how hard is that to get?
07:28:45midkaywhite with a gray tint, haha.
07:29:30sharpeoh c'mon midkay, there are only 254 shades of grey, not including white and black.
07:29:53Paul_The_NerdOnly 254?
07:29:54midkay"only 254 shades", right. only that many. not that many to go through.
07:30:03Paul_The_NerdYou're assuming 24-bit
07:30:09BigMaci like it sharpe
07:30:12BigMacthank you alot
07:30:16sharpeyes. i never said shades of light grey.
07:30:19sharpeah. you're welcome.
07:30:22midkaybecause light gray is so hard to get.
07:34:19sharpemidkay: you have no idea.
07:35:55Paul_The_NerdLight gray that doesn't look white on a colored background can be difficult.
07:37:07midkayon a colored background? what do you mean?
07:37:40Paul_The_NerdOnce you're on a background with colors, a light gray can very easily look like it's white without something white to give it context.
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07:38:47midkayjust make it darker to suit.
07:39:24 Nick daurn|afk is now known as daurn|laptop (n=quae@unaffiliated/daurnimator)
07:39:26midkayexperiment to where you want it. versus asking people to give them some random "white but gray" values until one looks alright. it's really not that hard..
07:40:44sharpei did suggest 'hot pink' earlier, and a purple color resembling the purple-handled crest spinbrush a bit ago.
07:41:01BigMacgotta change it
07:41:07BigMacto close to the clouds color
07:41:13midkaysharpe: no, uh, BigMac suggested the spinbrush color, right?
07:41:49midkay<BigMac> i want something like the color of the crest spinbrush handle
07:41:52sharpemidkay: yes, he suggest the spinbrush, i suggested the actual color of the purple one.
07:41:52midkaythat's the first mention of it.
07:42:13sharpegah. s/suggest/suggested
07:42:28midkayoh, BigMac suggest the spinbrush. midkay see. i going to disappear now.
07:42:49BigMaci wish truetype fonts worked on here
07:43:29 Join Seed [0] (i=ben@
07:43:36sharpeat least it wasn't, "he suggest spinbrush." at least there was a "the" in there.
07:44:14sharpelate night
07:44:29Paul_The_NerdMorning, by 40 minutes
07:44:39midkaysharpe: that doesn't work. they said "morning" but not "early" or "mid" or "late".
07:44:46BigMacan hour and forty here
07:44:52midkayyou could say "night" but you can't be specific, since they weren't.
07:45:01midkayunless you want to RUIN it, like you just did.
07:46:06sharpeyes midkay, that was my plan. to RUIN it. now that i have succeeded, i can now go on to do more evil things.
07:46:41midkayas usual.
07:47:09BigMachmm black doesnt work either
07:47:13sharpei live to ruin people's day.
07:48:26sharpeBg3r: did i ruin your day?
07:49:02Bg3rsharpe: i really doubt it, but u can continue trying to do so :P
07:50:17sharpeoh well.
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07:53:23sharpegood-day everyone.
07:53:28 Quit sharpe ("Leaving")
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08:10:45 Part midgey34
08:11:07BigMacdoes the vlc convert transcode swfs?
08:11:52*safetydan tries to figure out if that sentence is English...
08:12:09BigMacmy bad
08:12:15JdGordonBigMac -> english :D
08:12:41BigMacJdGordon->already appologized
08:12:51JdGordonyes i type too slow :p
08:13:56safetydanBigMac, you might better either asking Google or the VLC forums
08:14:36BigMacno im talking about the one for rockbox
08:15:23safetydanEh? When did Rockbox start shipping a transcoder?
08:16:20BigMacunder the mpeg plugin wiki thing
08:18:34safetydanWell it uses VLC so once again you're better off asking Google or the VLC forums.
08:19:56Paul_The_NerdAll the .bat file is, is that command line listed on the page using VLC
08:20:25BigMacok well i decided to do it manually anway
08:20:46BigMacbut what do you reccomend for a decent amount of fps paul?
08:20:57BigMaci know it has to be multiples of 16
08:22:05Paul_The_NerdThe sizes have to be multiples of 16...
08:23:11BigMacyah but you said you were getting 20 fps on your ipod
08:23:17Paul_The_NerdI have a Nano.
08:23:24BigMacso im asking you what resolution you use
08:23:28 Quit chendo (Remote closed the connection)
08:23:34BigMacwhat size is its scren?
08:23:38Paul_The_NerdSo yes, with video at 176x128, on the Nano's tiny screen.
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08:23:57BigMacill do the next one up of that
08:32:10BigMacwtf...i can't find were its outputting my movies to
08:32:34Paul_The_NerdShould be the same folder as you're running it from
08:32:50BigMacthats what i thought but its not in there
08:32:55BigMacthats were it was before
08:32:59BigMacno errors came up
08:33:32 Join nudelyn [0] (
08:33:36BigMacC:\Program Files\VideoLAN\VLC right
08:33:41BigMacthats were i installed it
08:36:00BigMacpastebin wont work for me
08:37:35BigMacwas there something else i need to install?
08:37:39BigMacit worked before
08:41:16BigMacvlc C:\animatorvs.animation.swf −−sout=#transcode{vcodec=mp2v,vb=600,width=192,height=144}:es{access-video=file,mux-video=es,dst-video=animatorvs.animation.m2v}
08:41:29BigMacthat look right?
08:46:11midkaywhy don't you just try it?
08:46:21midkayis that what the page says?
08:46:57midkayif you have it open and just typed it, why should any of us bother to open it and double check that you typed it right. if it gives an error, try again. if it doesn't, then hooray.
08:47:30BigMacno one has any idea either huh
08:47:36BigMacim stumped
08:49:01safetydanI don't think VLC actually supports FLV/SWF files.
08:49:10safetydanAt least their "supported formats" page doesn't mention it.
08:52:05Bg3rJdGordon: what :)
08:52:21JdGordonstupid patch was being stupid... but working now
08:52:53BigMaci reaallllly want jon to reply back
08:53:08BigMaci need to know if his build uses the current source with video
08:53:31 Part safetydan
08:53:38BagderBigMac: get the source and diff against CVS HEAD
08:54:10BigMaci dont think he has his source available
08:54:20Bagderhe should
08:54:34Bagderboth legally by the license and for it being a good thing
08:55:54daurn|laptopYOU ARE A PIRATE
08:56:41BHSPitMonkeyyou're a spammer
08:57:15BigMack ill check it
08:57:38BigMacand correct me if im wrong, if i have his source i can patch it?
08:57:54BHSPitMonkeyBigMac, in case you don't know, vlc does play flv
08:58:05BHSPitMonkeyit's a little unstable though
08:58:21BigMacyah these are swf though
08:58:35BHSPitMonkeyand I know mplayer plays them
08:58:50BHSPitMonkeyhave you -tried- one?
08:59:07BHSPitMonkeyI would think it couldn't
08:59:38BigMaci can play them on my computer in flash
09:00:08BigMacbut i guess im just going to have to use *gulp* quicktime *shudders*
09:00:27BHSPitMonkeywhat are you trying to do
09:00:54BigMacsonvert my swf file to m2v
09:01:22BHSPitMonkeythere are windows freeware programs that do that
09:02:35 Join Zagor [0] (n=bjst@rockbox/developer/Zagor)
09:04:02markunmorning Zagor
09:05:56 Join petur [0] (
09:07:17 Quit damaki_ (Remote closed the connection)
09:10:32***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
09:13:09JdGordonwhy are the sim and boot builds being built for the cvs builds page.. there is no link to download them is there?
09:13:43peturalways nice to see if they build without errors
09:13:49Bagderthat page is not primarily for downloads you know
09:14:20JdGordon.. ye ok.. i guess so...
09:14:43Bagderthe sims aren't useful to download, and we want to offer somewhat "secure" bootloaders
09:15:21JdGordonwhy does the sim build produce 47 warning depending on which comp its ubilt on? bad sdl install?
09:15:29Paul_The_NerdYeah, if you offered bootloaders from the CVS build, I'm sure we'd actually end up with bricked players every now and then.
09:15:35dwihnoSpeaking of nothing... Rockbox has no real disk size limit huh? I recall something about the ISD300 being the only limit...
09:15:46BagderJdGordon: a picky gcc on amiconn's (iirc) machine
09:16:11Bg3rJdGordon: i suppose it's 64bit thing
09:16:39Bagderdwihno: rockbox does not have code to deal with very big disks, no
09:17:14 Quit _Veseliq_ (Remote closed the connection)
09:17:15BagderOpenNeo did extend the code in their project so we might be able to get something back from them one day
09:17:16dwihnoBagder: does not? hmm. where lies the limit?
09:17:28dwihnofat driver? ata?
09:17:31dwihnoboth perhaps
09:17:39dwihnoah, ok
09:17:47dwihnoAm I safe if I get a 120GB disk?
09:18:05dwihnoCan't go bigger due to the freakin' isd :)
09:18:25Bagderand the existing rockbox can deal with bigger size if you use several partitions
09:18:36Bagderbut the isd can't
09:19:04dwihnoWell, 120GB should be enough for everyone ;)
09:19:05 Join ender` [0] (i=null@
09:19:48Bagderyou can use 137GB (by manufacturer-speak)
09:20:06dwihnogood luck finding one of those disks ;)
09:20:24Bagderc'mon, can't be that hard to build your own, can it? ;-P
09:20:37dwihnonaaah, some discs, some platters and whooo! custom disk! ;D
09:21:52dwihnonevermind ;)
09:21:57dwihnoit's too early for me anyhow
09:22:14Bagderwant me to get a cup of coffee for you?
09:23:11BigMacBHSPitMonkey:freeware such as...
09:23:28dwihnoBagder: If you don't mind %)
09:23:55BigMaci have quicktime 7 and i could go to mov then to m2v
09:24:01BigMacbut im having trouble
09:25:04BigMaci keep getting error 2008
09:25:07BHSPitMonkeyBigMac, here's something I just found by googling
09:27:25 Join Gnelik [0] (n=Gnelik@
09:28:07BHSPitMonkeyBigMac, sorry, that's not freeware at second glance
09:28:10 Part Paul_The_Nerd
09:29:56BHSPitMonkeyBigMac, this looks like the thing you want
09:30:06BigMacused that
09:30:11BigMacdoesnt work
09:32:18daurn|laptopBHSPitMonkey YOU SUCK
09:32:20 Quit darkless ("Leaving")
09:32:21daurn|laptop... bigmax
09:32:32daurn|laptopas in - bigmac's
09:32:48daurn|laptopbut x is too cool four skool
09:32:56daurn|laptopi winzor!
09:33:39BHSPitMonkeyyou mean winx0r
09:33:53daurn|laptopno i don't
09:37:47BHSPitMonkeywhat? did you choke on your own stupidity?
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09:40:08 Nick Stev is now known as |Stev| (
09:40:48 Quit daurnimator ("daurnimator was using Daurnimator's Legendary Script")
09:40:51*petur spots another impossible request in the forum:
09:41:02JdGordonnothing is impossible...
09:41:15peturreal-time spectrum analyzer when recording?
09:41:33JdGordonhehe.. difficult.. but no impossible.. :D
09:41:41Bagderprove it!
09:41:45peturmaybe on the second core of an ipod
09:42:46daurn|laptopnot impossible
09:43:13midkayyou're about a minute and a half late there, daurn|laptop.
09:44:17daurn|laptopmidkay: you're late ;)
09:44:49midkay.. er.. good one... ?
09:45:28JdGordonwhy is midkay always in the center of all this bickering???
09:45:41midkaywhy are people so silly? answer that for me.
09:45:45daurn|laptopcause hes late
09:46:03|Stev|if he was late, wouldn't he be at the back?
09:46:06midkay<jdgordon> it's not impossible [2 minutes later] <daurn|laptop> not impossible
09:46:15midkaywhy would you even say that.
09:46:23midkayit was already discussed and decided.
09:46:26daurn|laptopwhy not
09:46:33midkaythat's why.
09:46:38daurn|laptop(don't asnwer yourself)
09:46:41daurn|laptopi mean me
09:46:44daurn|laptopi mean anyone
09:47:10daurn|laptopYOUR HEAD ASPLODE
09:48:57 Quit JdGordon ("Konversation terminated!")
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10:00:34jhMikeSAny particular reason eq filter bands are applied low->high?
10:00:57markunjhMikeS: would it be more efficient the other way around?
10:01:18 Quit Gnelik ("Gfrf!4edss")
10:01:47jhMikeSNo...but the distortion harmonics introduced in the lower bands is then run through the upper bands. Going high to low would avoid that.
10:02:11linuxstbjhMikeS: preglow wrote the EQ code, so I guess you should ask him.
10:02:50 Join conorkirk1 [0] (
10:02:55jhMikeSUnrolling the calls to eq_filter seems to help couple percent on my ogg test too
10:03:44linuxstbjhMikeS: On a different subject, how is your lcd_yuv_blit() doing?
10:04:35jhMikeSlinuxstb: Just got assembly optimized lcd_update(_rect) committed and so will start that shortly. Using IRAM line buffers helps a lot BTW.
10:05:33linuxstbDid you see amiconn's suggestion to put those IRAM buffers on the stack? The LCD code is always called from the main thread, and the main thread's stack is in IRAM.
10:05:49jhMikeSI did something and my ogg boost ration went from 85-74% ?!!?
10:06:04jhMikeSlinuxstb: yes
10:06:15 Join LinusN [0] (n=linus@rockbox/developer/LinusN)
10:06:22markunmorning LinusN
10:06:24jhMikeSwith eq btw
10:06:43jhMikeSHello LinusN...cocka doodle doo?
10:06:55LinusNhowdy dowdy
10:07:53*petur wipes his eyes
10:07:55jhMikeS*tweet tweet*
10:08:05*petur checks channel name
10:09:30peturtoo early
10:10:23 Join safetydan [0] (
10:10:26jhMikeSIt's 4:09 here...who cares if it's AM
10:13:26jhMikeSlinuxstb: about the eq...when's preglow around then?
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10:17:00 Quit JdGordon (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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10:20:47linuxstbjhMikeS: He's normally around at this time.
10:21:13JdGordonhey LinusN, sorry i had to run off on friday, the actiion stuff is ready to go, execpt it has really only been tested on the actual target on the h300 and ipod
10:22:08LinusNis it adapted to the new horizontal scroll button mappings?
10:22:32JdGordonno, but judging by the forum it sounds like that path was a bad idea...
10:22:48JdGordonim thinkg of a way to make those sort of settings easily configurable
10:24:59LinusNi like the new buttons for the horizontal scroll, now it is finally usable imho
10:25:29LinusNhowever, i'm not too happy about how the ui feels because of it
10:25:37LinusN(the trigger-on-release)
10:26:34JdGordonwe can allow the user to choose if they want that behaviour or not.. but that will start to bloat out the settings even more than now..
10:26:41BHSPitMonkeycan I be offtopic for a sec
10:27:05*LinusN starts the timer
10:27:14LinusNoops, your 1 sec is out, sorry
10:27:59BHSPitMonkeyoh well, I'll deal with the overage:
10:28:11BHSPitMonkeydoes this deal seem fishy to anyone
10:28:47JdGordonthe price? looks fine..
10:28:57BHSPitMonkeyway cheaper than I've seen anywhere else so far
10:29:01Bg3rLinusN: do you happen to remember where did you put your current measures (original fw/rockbox) for h3xx in the wiki ?
10:29:08JdGordoneven dirt cheap... compusa are a decent shop arnt they?
10:29:17midkaythey are, maybe it's a typo..
10:29:33midkaythey always have rather low prices but it seems quite low even for them..
10:29:37jhMikeSI don't know if its fishy but if it's an error on their part, they probably will have to sell it for that anyway.
10:29:45BHSPitMonkeyJdGordon, yeah, I just wonder if there's some grotesque quality problem with that drive
10:29:57LinusNBg3r: try searching for it
10:29:59midkaywith the drive? then why is it much more elsewhere?
10:30:30Bg3rLinusN: i tried ... :) what string should i search for ?
10:30:47Bg3rfound it
10:30:53BHSPitMonkeymidkay, I didn't say that model is more elsewhere, just that kind of GB/$ ration is extraordinary...
10:31:12midkayit's a hitachi even, i'd imagine it'd be recalled..
10:31:26midkayHitachi DeskStar 7K250 - Hard Drive - 80 GB - SATA-150 ... - $58.99 -
10:31:32midkay160GB Deskstar 7K250 SATA Hard Drive - $64.95 - PC Connection
10:31:52midkaysmaller sizes..
10:33:57Bg3rah, no, this is for h100
10:34:53midkayi mean gb-wise.. if you're talking to me..
10:35:11Bg3rmidkay: no, this was for my link above
10:35:24peturBHSPitMonkey: that drive is ATA-100, so bus speed is not the latest greatest
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10:35:50Bg3rLinusN: 10x! )
10:35:59BHSPitMonkeypetur, is that terrible, though?
10:36:44 Quit bluebrother ("leaving")
10:36:47peturnot terrible, should be ok for data storage, not if you plan to capture video,...
10:37:36Bg3rpetur: heh, i don't think that SATA drives are much faster than PATA ones
10:37:39 Join bluebrother [0] (
10:38:04peturisn't the latest PATA speed 133 for some time now?
10:38:07markunLinusN: is the iriver->target_tree patch almost ready for commit?
10:38:11Bg3rbut NCQ surely helps
10:38:28LinusNmarkun: no, i have quite a few things left to do
10:38:29conorkirk1Lol, internet.
10:38:31Bg3rpetur: do you believe that current 7200rpm drives deliver more than 100MBytes/sec ?
10:39:04peturdepends on cache size probably
10:39:41Bg3ryep, but the actual transfer rate from the disk plates doesn't reach 100MB/sec
10:40:11BHSPitMonkeyso, you're saying it isn't even that relevant?
10:40:26 Quit webmind (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
10:40:31peturanyway, I'm not pata minded, sata gives less overhead on the CPU
10:41:06Bg3rbut yes, sata is the future
10:41:23conorkirk1So then the duck said, thats not a plastic duck, thats my wife!
10:41:29BHSPitMonkeyyeah, but for 10 bucks more than that PATA drive, I can get a SATA drive that's 40GB less
10:41:32 Quit webmind_ (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
10:41:43 Join webmind [0] (
10:44:25Bg3rLinusN: huh ?
10:44:26Bg3r 128kbit/s MP3 in WPS 45mHz 125mA 60mA
10:44:27Bg3r128kbit/s MP3 in menu 45mHz 120mA 110mA
10:45:07Bg3roriginal 110mA in menu, but 60 in its "WPS" ?
10:45:26LinusNit uses a higher frequency when doing interactive stuff
10:46:24LinusNwhich reminds me, i should measure again, now that we havs solved the usbotg issue
10:46:43LinusNso much to do, so little time...
10:46:45 Quit conorkirk1 ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
10:47:02BHSPitMonkeywoah, compusa also has a 200gb maxtor ata133 drive for the same price
10:47:28BHSPitMonkeyguess I'm going there tomorrow and checking things out
10:47:32BHSPitMonkeynight all
10:48:14GaloisIBM sold their drives unit to hitachi so the hitachi drives come from the same ancestry as the deathstar and so on
10:48:16Bagdergoing there? noooo, you should buy everything online!
10:48:29JdGordonLinusN: done, with the option to use on+direction or hold+direction to scroll
10:49:00JdGordon... defaulting to hold+direction
10:49:06Galoispricewatch has $56 drives, so $50 isn't too far off, especially with sales tax
10:49:24theli_uaamiconn or linuxstb .... i've tried to compile zxbox using grayscale for recorder sim but have only black screen after start :(, what can be the problem?
10:52:43linuxstbtheli_ua: I don't know - I've never used the greyscale lib. Does it work in the recorder sim without the greyscale lib?
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11:00:59JdGordon.. some will be pleased to know making the buttons more customizable is farily simple...
11:01:20JdGordonjust annoying to get it woring 100% :p
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11:10:35***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
11:13:51theli_ualinuxstb, nevermind .. just got lost in all ifdefs
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11:16:18jhMikeSI thought that configurable keys were considered taboo in rb.
11:17:08Bg3rLinusN: :))))
11:17:30Bg3r(see the signature)
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11:24:44jhMikeS?? Noone has anything to say about that? :\
11:25:09LinusNi'm not in favour of configurable keys
11:25:37bluebrotherconfigurable keys would be hell to describe in the manual
11:25:59LinusNand to support when people want help in the forums
11:26:21jhMikeSWouldn't the defaults be the same?
11:26:35*LinusN mumbles something about a can containing worms
11:27:00*jhMikeS thanks LinusN because he's going fishing.
11:27:11LinusNjhMikeS: yes, but clueless people don't realize that they have changed the keymap
11:27:53LinusNand because rockbox is a "maze of carefully timed keypresses", changing a button might have unexpected side effects
11:27:54jhMikeSRequire a clue to get to it in the first place? :)
11:27:55bluebrotherthe only option I would consider useable would be changing the keymap _only_ by the use of a special configuration file.
11:28:10preglowbut yeah
11:28:13bluebrotherthat could _only_ be modified on a pc, not the player itself.
11:28:32preglowwhat do people think about the new horizontal scrolling which introduced another timed keypress?
11:28:46jhMikeSI guess that qualifies as needing a clue...keys should go to defaults if there _anything_ wrong in the config.
11:29:01jhMikeSpreglow: horizontal scrolling?
11:29:11LinusNpreglow: some people have complained
11:29:38jhMikeSpreglow: is there any particular reason why the eq bands must be applied low->high?
11:29:40LinusNhowever, i think holding right/left is easier/more intuitive than a button combo
11:29:54linuxstbpreglow: I tried it out this morning (never having used horizontal scroll before), and found it hard to use unless I just wanted to scroll all the way to the right to see the ends of the filenames. i.e. it's difficult to just move it a little bit (it repeats and scrolls to far). If I try and just move it a little, I accidentally do a short press and play the file.
11:30:01preglowi don't think i like it myself
11:30:07bluebrotherI found to like the scrolling better than I thought ;-)
11:30:10Slasherii like the new horizontal scrolling patch
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11:30:18Slasheriit was pain to use it with the play button
11:30:25preglowa pain, but predictable
11:30:34preglowi don't like stuff requiring the key to be held pressed
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11:31:33jhMikeSpreglow: ?? didn't see my question?
11:31:44preglowjhMikeS: no
11:31:55preglowjhMikeS: purely arbitrary
11:31:58linuxstbI don't feel that strongly, but if there was a vote, I would vote in favour of reverting to the old behaviour.
11:31:58jhMikeSpreglow: up there...about the Eq^
11:32:16preglowjhMikeS: i have answered
11:32:24preglowlinuxstb: yeah, me too now
11:33:17LinusNpreglow: i find button combos hard to use with one hand
11:33:38preglowindeed, they are
11:33:45Slasheriah, in fact the patch is the reason why ui feels more sluggish now..
11:33:53preglowbut i'm willing to live with that
11:33:56linuxstbLinusN: But I don't think the new way is much of an improvement. And you also lose the ability to quickly navigate back to the root by holding left.
11:34:15jhMikeSpreglow: ?? I don't see it so I take silence means "no particular reason"
11:34:28preglowjhMikeS: no, it's purely arbitrary
11:34:40preglowjhMikeS: no reason at all, you may apply them any order you want
11:35:26jhMikeSok...becuase distortion harmonics introduced in the lower bands get filtered by the hight bands...this may be good for when a higher band is cut though.
11:36:03LinusNlinuxstb: i must admit that i never hold Left to get back to the root, it never occurred to me
11:36:38LinusNi only have 3-4 dir levels, so 4 rapid clicks is just as fast as waiting for the repeat to kick in
11:37:23linuxstbMy directories are similar, which is why I don't really mind losing that feature if others like the new horizontal scroll.
11:37:39LinusNhowever, using button release for navigation surely makes the ui feel sluggish
11:37:48jhMikeSpreglow: Does that make any sense at all? ^^
11:37:59preglowjhMikeS: not exactly a priority for me, since distortion should be avoided, but sure, it makes sense
11:38:44preglowLinusN: right, i noticed the handling seemed a bit sticky
11:38:47preglowthat's just nasty, imho
11:44:57*JdGordon has no idea why stupid hold right is triggering an enter event after scrolling :'(
11:48:22LinusNbecause Right is mapped to enter?
11:48:54JdGordonno, im overwrtiging the standard settings... i tinhk there is a minor oversight in the action prechecking code
11:49:52JdGordonno, found the rpoblem :p
11:49:56JdGordon.. hopefully
11:50:36JdGordonI was at dinner while you were all talking about custom mappings, I agree that the settings shuold only be settable through config files, not through menus
11:50:55JdGordon... partitially because setting up the menu is annoying :D
11:51:30*Bg3r just opened his h340 for the first time and is suprised how little is the HDD in fact ...
11:52:21preglowtis small indeed
11:52:43theli_ualinuxstb, can you , please , look at new zxbox version when you'll have some time? i;m just wondering what else should be done for inclusion....
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11:56:18amiconntheli_ua: How's the zxbox speed with the grayscale lib improvements?
11:57:29theli_uai have opportunity to test it on mini only ... without precise measurement (noone answered what needs to be done for using gray_putsxy) it looks like 90-100% i think
11:58:25Bg3rLinusN: are there any marker notes on the hdds of your irivers ?
11:58:55LinusNyes, all of them
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12:04:13Bg3rhaha the glue smells like a chewing gum
12:04:20JdGordonnot oranges?
12:05:27discopizzaanyone using an iAudio x5L w/rockbox?
12:06:48*JdGordon forgot to rolo again after changin :'(
12:07:07amiconntheli_ua: All gray_* functions without the _ub_ part in the name only work in buffered mode. Buffered mode uses two additional buffers (a chunky 'current buffer' and a back buffer to detect changes)
12:07:49amiconnSo it uses more memory, and updates which change a lot on the screen are slower. Update with little frame-to-frame changes are faster and cause less flicker
12:08:12jhMikeSdiscopizza: why yes, always! but not L
12:12:57amiconnAnd yes, the grayscale lib updates (unbuffered mode) became ~90% faster on ipod
12:13:17JdGordonLinusN: ok, so whats the plan for actions? commit it and fix anything that comes up? or put up builds on the forums and get more feedback first?
12:13:41LinusNi dunno, i'd like to commit it as soon as possible
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12:20:04JdGordonbah, too much of a PITA to do a build for every target to make sure it works... easier to just commit it and live with the bug reports (i dont imagine there will be heaps, but i do expect some) for he few days afterwards
12:20:36LinusNmost bug reports would be "it doesn't work like it used to"
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12:25:20theli_uaamiconn, so far i update whole screen each frame i think i'll stick with unbuffered :)
12:25:36safetydanWould there be an objection to me committing a half-working hardware eq patch? It doesn't actually break anything.
12:26:28safetydanWell Febs tested it and said the peak filters weren't working. But I can't see any reason why they wouldn't.
12:27:07safetydanNot having an iPod makes it a bit hard for me to test.
12:27:28BagderI'd say committing that is fine
12:28:12LinusNwho cares about the ipod anyway :-P
12:29:59BagderI don't see how it makes anything worse
12:31:20LinusNme neither
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12:42:49safetydanright, well I'll just make sure it still compiles
12:54:20amiconntheli_ua: Even if your code sends a full-screen update to the lib, buffered mode checks what _actually_ changed (that's why it needs two chunky buffers, not only one)
12:55:29amiconnOnly pixels that change their final grey value (after (optional gamma-correction and lcd linearisation) and reduction to the selected depth) are redrawn
12:56:05*amiconn ponders several other ways to improve grayscale lib performance
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12:59:58safetydanwoo, no extra warnings or errors
13:00:24theli_uaamiconn, would it be faster to use buffered mode you think?
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13:07:50amiconntheli_ua: Possibly. Only a test will tell.
13:08:46amiconnBack when I tried buffered mode for doom (on H140) it was slower, but then memory access is a big bottleneck on coldfire and there is no data cache.
13:10:30preglowshouldn't the lang strings for the hardware equaliser be defined only for 5g to avoid wasting space?
13:10:38***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
13:11:05preglowor is that overdoing it? :>
13:12:17JdGordoncan the x5 do page up/down in the list?
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13:15:09safetydanpreglow, quite probably... I wasn't sure how to do that.
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13:16:28jhMikeSDoes some x5 stuff need looking at? I'd be happy to help if possible.
13:17:21linuxstbsafetydan: Just looking at your commit - isn't 5 bits enough to represent +/- 12?
13:17:57safetydanlinuxstb, yes, yes it is
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13:19:46jhMikeSamiconn: I've asked about doom hanging while starting graphics engine on the X5 but I get the usualy silent treatment. Really want to see it. Come to think of it...I get the silent treatment alot! Am I wrong? :)
13:20:40safetydanhrmm... should I bump the config block version or is it soon enough for me to get away with a quick commit?
13:20:53linuxstbI'ld say a quick commit...
13:21:11safetydandone and done
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13:21:26JdGordonthanks :'( you just made my patch out of sync...
13:21:37JdGordonwas just about to upload it to wiki :'(
13:21:38safetydanJdGordon, the button actions?
13:21:53 Quit TCK (Client Quit)
13:21:54*jhMikeS get's the point...and is also trying to quit smoking again so may seem short fused.
13:21:56safetydanShouldn't be any effect since it doesn't change anything button related
13:22:12JdGordonchanging the setting version...
13:22:19*JdGordon also added a settinh
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13:22:57linuxstbsafetydan: Also, for eq0, you always need to keep bit 8 set to 1 - i.e. OR it with 0x100. I think that's why it's not working - you're telling to codec to apply the EQ to the ADC...
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13:23:30preglowsafetydan: those frequencies are only correct for 44.1khz sample rate, i think
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13:23:45preglowwhich will be correct for right now, i guess, but it's worth mentioning
13:24:31safetydanHrmm... data sheet doesn't say anything about that. But this is my first time reading one of these so...
13:24:37linuxstbsafetydan: Final comment - the datasheet refers to the 5 bands as EQ1 to EQ5, not 0 to 4.
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13:24:56safetydanlinuxstb, yeah I had to pick either being consistent with the software eq, or consistent with the hardware
13:25:01preglowwell, i haven't actually read it too close myself, i just assumed it to be so
13:25:26preglowi doubt they've got a large set of coefficients
13:26:58jhMikeSAright: Who should I ask about the doom stuff? Nobody seems to have an inlkling. Besides that all I want is a cigarette.
13:27:22safetydanlinuxstb, will you fix the eq0 adc/dac setting thing?
13:27:31petursorry, this is a non-smoking channel
13:27:57linuxstbjhMikeS: Everyone is silent because they don't know the solution... My guess would be to look at the user-timer stuff first though.
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13:28:57linuxstbjhMikeS: The only thing I've read about the problems Doom has on the X5 is that sometimes running Metronome first fixes it, and Metronome also uses the user timer.
13:28:58peturjhMikeS: a hint is to look at the history of the doom files and see who changed most or changed the stuff you have questions about
13:29:13*preglow blows smoke in jhMikeS' face
13:29:33*petur coughs a bit
13:30:18*daurn|laptop spits
13:30:23*petur runs off for a while (need fresh air)
13:30:27jhMikeSlinuxstb: Everyone may be silent...they can say "I dunno"...but now some people have a suggestion and that is very much appreciated. :)\
13:30:34pregloweveryone can't say dunno
13:30:39preglowthat would make this a very noisy channel
13:30:41JdGordonLinusN: ok, ive updated the patch on the wiki page... if u do decide to comit it today lemme know and ill stata forum thread for complaints you can link to in the commit message
13:30:52*jhMikeS goes "ahhhhhhhhh...." thanks
13:31:08*jhMikeS wan't to bum one
13:31:59preglowam i the only man on the planet who doesn't think it's hard to stop smoking?
13:32:19JdGordoni never found quiting hard....
13:32:27JdGordonof course.. i never started which helps :p
13:32:27linuxstbsafetydan: Yes, it's not urgent, so I'll try your patch out later today, and fix any problems in the driver I can find.
13:32:46preglowlinuxstb: audio samples comparing it with the software eq would be cool :>
13:32:50safetydanlinuxstb, ah cool. I was just about to commit the minor fix
13:32:57safetydan> if (band == 0) {
13:32:58safetydan> eq = 0x100; /* Always apply EQ to the DAC path */
13:32:58safetydan> }
13:33:14jhMikeSI'ts the the one vice that I like...I don't drink and my drug use is years apart...but those smokes are the best
13:33:41linuxstbOr just change the wm8758_write(EQ0,eq) to (EQ0,0x100 | eq)
13:33:46jhMikeSJdGordon: That's the best way, yes
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13:34:05preglowi think i'd find it hard to stop eating, but apart from that, i think i could stop doing whatever without any big troubles
13:34:05safetydanor that...
13:34:08preglowbut anywhio
13:34:37*safetydan should probably not write drivers
13:34:40preglowanyone here with spdif recording possibilities?
13:34:48linuxstbI own an h140...
13:34:59linuxstb(but no cable, so the answer is no...)
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13:35:14preglowme too, but then again, my ipod has no optical out
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13:35:42preglowwas just thinking about comparing assembly optimised crossfeed to the ordinary one, but i guess a listening test will just have to do
13:35:48keiljhello all
13:36:30*jhMikeS loves drivers
13:36:49*Bagder loves when the drivers work
13:36:58preglowthis time i hit the register lack wall hard, though, so it might be too much faster anyway :/
13:37:01jhMikeS:) Indeed
13:37:06preglowmight not
13:37:50preglowlinuxstb: do any ipods have spdif possibilities at all, btw?
13:37:53jhMikeSWhy not just call both functions and compare the outputs (save-diff to disk).
13:37:54linuxstbpreglow: Didn't lostlogic implement a patch giving wav output? Or am I confusing it with NULL output?
13:38:04preglowlinuxstb: null output, i think
13:38:22linuxstbpreglow: The PortalPlayer chips have S/PDIF according to their product briefs. But AFAIK, Apple haven't wired it up.
13:38:38jhMikeSlinuxstb: Wonder why.
13:39:01linuxstbTo keep the RIAA happy? But then again, Apple's DRM allows you to burn audio CDs...
13:39:05jhMikeSlinuxstb: S/PDIF out right?
13:39:21linuxstbjhMikeS: Both I'm guessing.
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13:39:49linuxstbpreglow: Yes, my soundcard has digital I/O, but I've never tried it. I have trouble enough getting ALSA to play analogue audio....
13:40:21linuxstbpreglow: Sorry, ignore that last answer - you didn't ask that question....
13:40:31*linuxstb goes away for coffee.
13:42:16preglowit doesn't really matter anyway, i forgot that ipods have no sspdif
13:42:33keiljim wanting to write a plugin but im not too sure how hard it will be, as i have no programing experience i dont know if i should try as i dont have MUCH free time
13:42:38*Bagder needs to hire someone to make his coffee
13:43:01BagderI have to actually walk downstairs and make it myself
13:43:06preglowBagder: horror!
13:43:07dwihnoBagder: you've misunderstood the situation... YOU are hired to make ME coffee ;)
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13:43:14preglowkeilj: if you can't program, then sure, it'll take a bit of time
13:43:40Bagderkeilj: just go for it and you'll find out!
13:44:32keiljpreglow: i would like to create a plugin that displays how loud ambient noise is by using the internal mic. for example, play something on my speakers at home and tehn run this plugin and try and get it to display the loudness in dB
13:44:35jhMikeSwow...I remember those long ago...just stare at everything for awhile and then it just makes sense for no apparent least for me.
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13:45:24keilji figuerd that the recod screen displays similar info in this little graohs but im not too sure how i would go about doing it
13:46:31*jhMikeS wonder's if his comments are of any help to anyone at all.
13:46:44linuxstbkeilj: I don't think the current plugin API in Rockbox gives you access to the audio data coming from the mic. So you (or someone) would need to add it to the API.
13:46:54jhMikeSBagder: Espresso ok?
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13:47:10linuxstbjhMikeS: Is there any other kind of coffee?
13:47:23peturkeilj: the recording screen doesn't show absolute sound pressure but relative - 0dB is max. So after that you need calibration so you'll need access to a real (calibrated) dB measuring device
13:47:25BagderjhMikeS: yes thanks but please hurry up!
13:47:26jhMikeSlinuxstb: Empatically no!
13:47:51*jhMikeS fired up the machine
13:48:05linuxstbI suppose ristrettos are acceptable.
13:48:31preglowkeilj: that will require a method of calibration
13:48:54preglowunless you don't dB SPL, i just assumed you did
13:49:00preglowdon't mean, argh
13:49:29keilji know that formular for working out loudness in dB which is relative to the softess sound we can hear. but you need the sound intensity of the input sound to compare to the original one
13:49:44preglowthe decibel readout you get in the recording screen isn't very meaningful outside of the context of the player itself
13:51:16jhMikeSCompared to the S/N ration it should be quite calculable
13:51:47preglowthe only decibel value i can think of being relevant, is dB SPL
13:52:08keiljhmmm... well i knwo that loudness of a sound equals 10log(I/O) where O is a sound of intensity 10^-12Wm2
13:52:11preglowand to get that reading, you'd need to calibrate the player with a sound source having a known amplitude
13:52:11jhMikeSWhat for 16bit samples it's -90db
13:52:40keilji spose this means that formular is irrelivant
13:52:43jhMikeSPower is 20*log(Max/Min) I think
13:53:05preglowkeilj: not irrelevant, no, it's still what you'd use, but unless you have some way to calibrate the recording device, the numbers you'd get would be pretty meaningless
13:53:32*petur kindly points to
13:53:46jhMikeSFor 16 bit audio its 20*log(65535/1) = 96.33db power
13:54:03preglowthe db the device displays is dB FS, decibel measured against digital full scale
13:54:15keilji see
13:54:20preglowa completely meaningless value outside of the context of the player itself
13:54:27preglowit just means how close you are to overloading the input device
13:54:40jhMikeSNot if you can calibrate sensitivity I'm thinking
13:56:13keiljhmmm, so for a first project this would be very very difficult?
13:56:32preglowat least it's far from easy
13:56:39preglowbut by no means impossible
13:57:12preglowyou don't need much code, the problematic part is that you'd need a separate spl measurement device as well :)
13:57:15preglowfor calibration
13:57:22jhMikeSwhy? Step 1) Understand the audio physics 2) Learn to translate into code 3) build plugin 4) Add to FS :)
13:57:22preglowand they cost money
13:57:24keiljyou talked about calibrating the player, how would this be done
13:57:55preglowkeilj: by reading the sound pressure level with a dedicated measurement device, then entering that value into the plugin somehow, so it can use it to give you correct db spl measurements
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13:58:42peturof course, we can assume all irivers behave the same and calibrate once
13:58:49preglowprobably, yes
13:59:08*petur thinks he has an spl meter at work ;)
14:01:16jhMikeSIsn't the dynamic range too limited in 16bit audio for this to work well? Can it do 24 bit?
14:02:52*Febs has an spl meter.
14:03:40linuxstbjhMikeS: I believe the Coldfires can do 20-bit, but not using DMA.
14:03:46jhMikeSCoffee's ready
14:03:59*linuxstb hands jhMikeS a cup
14:04:40amiconnpreglow: What kind of spdif recording capability would be required?
14:04:53preglowamiconn: irrelevant, as i remembered, ipods can't do spdif
14:05:00*jhMikeS fills his cup with espresso...and spills a drop in linuxstb's and hope he doesn't get sued.
14:05:05preglowso i need to go with disk writing or something
14:05:18amiconnpreglow: I thought you were talking about optimised crossfeed for coldfire
14:05:29preglowfor arm
14:05:38jhMikeS20bit == 120db? not bad
14:05:50preglow20*6 = 120
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14:06:16amiconnjhMikeS: Regarding the 'silence' answers - it's most often because people don't know
14:06:42amiconnI don't know why that happens and I can't test because I didn't receive my X5 yet
14:06:50*amiconn hopes to receive it soon
14:06:51preglowyou're having an x5 as well? :P
14:06:53jhMikeSamiconn: I understand...I'm jumpy today with the lack of nicotine.
14:07:05linuxstbjhMikeS: Have a smoke then...
14:07:06backfullcan anybody help me
14:07:10jhMikeSThe doctore said he's remove it.
14:07:24linuxstbbackfull: Tell us your problem and you'll find out...
14:07:25keiljok, so say i was to play pink noise through my speakers at a constant volume, and used a SPL to measure the sound intensity, i could then tell teh player that THIS noise is whatever dB and then uing some more coding it could work out stuff by itself
14:07:31amiconnDoom is working fine on H140, H340 and ipod mini for me
14:07:33jhMikeSlinuxstb: I'm quitting...I quite for 1 1/2 years a relapsed for a month...time to stop again.
14:07:37peturbackfull: you haven't asked a question, so no :p
14:07:46amiconnThat is, as long as voice is deactivated...
14:07:47backfulli have an iriverH340 usmodel and i want to see video
14:07:51linuxstbjhMikeS: Good luck.
14:07:57backfulli have 1.04 firware for the moment
14:08:16jhMikeS"<linuxstb> backfull: Tell us your problem and you'll find out..." −− just how I feel at times! rotf
14:08:28peturbackfull: don't care about removing DRM for good?
14:08:38backfullwhats drm
14:08:52linuxstbPlayback of encrypted WMA files.
14:08:55backfullim french im not speaking english very well
14:08:56preglowkeilj: exactly
14:09:13backfulldrm is not important thats right?
14:09:23peturbackfull: do you buy music online?
14:09:23jhMikeSbackfull: Don't feel bad, there was someone on last week with far greater troubles.
14:09:41backfullno music online
14:09:51peturthen you don't need drm
14:10:13peturinstall EU or korean 1.28
14:10:14backfullcan i put korean firmware on my us model
14:10:37backfullno pb with us or korean
14:10:40peturuse EU as the korean version starts in korean
14:10:57peturwhich is a bit harder to switch to something readable
14:11:10backfullwhats is best EU or korean
14:11:38keiljpreglow: how would that be accomplished, telling teh player that this sound is 93db compared to this sound and then working out other sound intensities from that and the int mic? i can see how we need a base sound but im not sure how you would compare
14:11:44backfullso i downlad eu version on
14:11:51peturEU 1.29 if you can find a real 1.29 (most download links are in fact 1.30)
14:12:01peturelse 1.28
14:12:13backfulland whats rockbox?
14:12:26peturalternative firmware
14:12:31keiljid go with a korean or japanese version of firmware for video as they have a seperate menu for it
14:12:51peturEU 1.29 had it too until they removed it again
14:13:00keiljim using 1.29k i think, cant remember last time i saw it, been so long since i booted to iriver
14:13:33backfulland when i put rockbox can i go back to iriver firmware
14:13:49peturit's dual-boot
14:14:14backfullcan i have usb host on my us model?
14:14:55peturnot without hardware modification to supply power to the device
14:15:12 Join Nibbier [0] (
14:15:25keiljbackfull: if you go to there are some people who have gotten USB host on their US players. I THINK, not too sure though
14:15:28peturit may work if the device has it's own power source
14:15:41linuxstbAnyone know why iriver didn't enable USB host in the US models?
14:16:05backfulllast question
14:16:07keilji heard it was something to do with the other port they have, MEDIA or something, dont really know what its for
14:16:09peturthey use that port as device port, not host
14:16:09FebsIt used that USB port for MTP.
14:16:16backfulli can see video with eu firmware 1.29
14:16:17 Join MadDog011 [0] (n=MadDog01@212-200-212-95.adsl.sezampro.yu)
14:16:20 Quit A_M ("CGI:IRC")
14:17:09peturThe usbotg chip has two ports. one is always device (used for UMS), the other is switchable in software between host and device
14:17:31peturbut for host you need to supply power on the connector
14:17:36Febsbackfull, 1.29EU supported video. However, 1.29EU was pulled shortly after release and replaced with 1.30EU.
14:17:42Febs1.30EU does not support video.
14:17:42peturwhich isn't done in the US model
14:17:43*daurn|laptop knocks
14:17:47daurn|laptopany1 home?
14:17:58LinusNno, i'm at work
14:18:16*linuxstb is both at home and at work
14:18:18backfulltheres no risk to change us firmware by eu firmware!!
14:18:28*Bagder is at home and at work too!
14:18:45*petur is at work and should be working
14:19:05backfullgreat irc thanx a lot
14:19:54*preglow is barely dressed, yet working!
14:20:11linuxstbHas anyone ever used DRM on their H3x0? I'm curious to know how the files are transferred (is it only via MTP?) and where they are stored (are they visible on the disk?).
14:20:28keiljok, so to get an intensity volume in dB i would need a sound pressure meter, arent soudn pressure and intensity different though
14:21:12preglowkeilj: yes they are, but you won't have to bother about intensities
14:21:24*jhMikeS is in a strait jacket and type with a pencil in his teeth
14:21:44keiljbut isnt sound intensity what im trying to find?
14:22:16keiljintensity is the loudness of a sound compared to the lowest audible soud which is 0dB or 10^-12Wm2
14:22:51preglowyou're mixing terms up
14:24:02preglowyou're trying to find sound pressure level
14:24:27preglowso what you need to do is find out the factor with which to scale a given sample to find the correspondig pressure
14:24:31 Quit safetydan ("Ex-Chat")
14:24:32jhMikeSPressure is energy/sec moving through a particular cross section?
14:24:45preglowwhen you've found that, you feed the pressure number through the spl conversion formula
14:24:54keilj"the Decibel Scale is based on the measrement of the ratio of the intensity of the sound to a standard intensity at 1kHz"
14:24:56preglowand presto, you've got an iriver spl meter
14:25:07 Nick daurn|laptop is now known as JamesOn (n=quae@unaffiliated/daurnimator)
14:25:12 Nick JamesOn is now known as daurn|laptop (n=quae@
14:25:31jhMikeSI guess it must be since it's W/M^2
14:25:45 Nick daurn|laptop is now known as JamesEmitter (n=quae@unaffiliated/daurnimator)
14:26:22jhMikeSkeilj: was that 10^-12Wm2 or 10^-12W/m2?
14:26:27 Nick JamesEmitter is now known as daurn|laptop (n=quae@
14:27:35keiljhang on
14:29:06keiljok well, in our physics class we had to find out the sound level of a sound by using the formular L=10log(I/O) where O equaled the lowest audible sound at 1kHz which was 10^-12 Wm^-2
14:29:25keiljwe used I as the sounds known intensity
14:29:53keiljand our answer (Value for L) was the sound level given in dB
14:29:58jhMikeSAbsolute enery/cross section
14:30:50Lynx_linuxstb: is anyone working on video with sound?
14:31:12jhMikeSIn digital audio I = 2^(num bits) and O = 1
14:31:37keiljand i we wernt given intensity we worked it out by using Power=IntensityxArea covered
14:31:47jhMikeSLynx_ were still working on video with video!
14:31:52preglowintensity is proportional to pressure anyway
14:32:12preglowit's just pressure divided by area
14:32:25Lynx_jhMikeS: heh, you mean optimizing work?
14:32:44jhMikeSLynx_: You could say that...:) Yes
14:33:44jhMikeSLynx_: I don't know for sure what amiconn is doing re: the codec or where he's at. He's lurking somewhere.
14:33:44keiljhmmmm... ok so what can the player already do that would help along this sound plugin?
14:35:24linuxstbLynx_: I'm working on the ipods - the next thing I plan to do is to try and move the video decoding to the ipods's second CPU, which will then free the main CPU for audio decoding. But as jhMikeS said, a lot of optimisation of the video decoding is still needed as well.
14:36:04*amiconn wants to do 2 video related things
14:36:15Lynx_linuxstb, jhMikeS: ok, thanks for the update :)
14:36:57amiconn(1) Bring video to the greyscale swcodec devices (H1x0, greyscale ipods). This will be rvf with mp3 audio track.
14:37:23amiconn(2) Try to understand idct, then asm optimise idct for coldfire using the emac
14:37:32 Quit Kitar|st (Connection timed out)
14:37:34keiljso whats teh difference between sound pressure level and sound intensity level
14:37:45 Join Kitar|st [0] (
14:38:17Lynx_amiconn: what's idct?
14:40:03linuxstbLynx_: It's the part of the video decoder that takes up about 60% of the decoding time.
14:40:40Bg3r <= LOL
14:40:43MikachuLynx_: inverse discrete cosine transform
14:40:46jhMikeSarent there some idcts in other codecs as a base?
14:41:16peturBg3r: rofl!
14:41:34jhMikeSIs that for real? Save it!
14:42:38jhMikeSidct transforms the frequency domain back to the time domain
14:43:51 Quit eGen_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
14:44:02 Join midkay [0] (n=midkay@rockbox/developer/midkay)
14:46:34keiljjust a question about the video, does it need to be resized for the players or do they resize it themselves
14:46:42keiljfor tehrockbox video that is
14:46:46 Quit dpassen1 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
14:47:06linuxstbkeilj: You need to resize it yourself.
14:47:20keiljthoguht so
14:49:00jhMikeSFor IDCT: Start with for period 2*pi function F(x)=a0+Sum(n=1,n=inf)(an*cos(x*n)+bn*sin(x*n)) (Fourier series if I got taht right)
14:49:32jhMikeSThat will lead you many places...
14:50:05XavierGrBger: ROFLMAO!!!
14:50:23XavierGrnice find
14:54:06jhMikeSBTW: They also have a structures called INITCOMMONCONTROLSEX and SHITEMID
14:55:17preglowamiconn: i don't think you'll gain much from using emac with idct
14:57:27 Quit Febs (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
15:00:09*preglow afk
15:01:23JdGordonwhere is the best place to put a counter for the number of tracks played? i want to add "shutdown after X tracks"
15:02:19JdGordonin the playlist or playback code?
15:02:34Bg3rXavierGr: nice friends :P
15:05:56 Join webguest62 [0] (
15:06:21webguest62i read some pages about replacing iDCT by IDFT
15:06:58webguest62i haven't read all pages
15:08:14JdGordon:( no one wants to help me?
15:10:33LinusNJdGordon: i'm not sure where the best place would be, i guess you'll discover that as you go along
15:10:40***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
15:11:10JdGordon:( im assuming putting it in the playlist code is useless because that would be called for buffering right?
15:12:19JdGordon.. this is gonna be fun with no sdl :p
15:12:47 Join eGen_ [0] (
15:13:02markunJdGordon: what's the use of "shutdown after X tracks"?
15:13:21JdGordonwhats the use of anything?
15:13:29JdGordonits just nother requested option
15:14:08JdGordoni mean, if its not even going to be looked at then i wont bother.. but i doubt the additional code would be very much
15:16:01markunJdGordon: do you undestand why it could be useful for audio books?
15:16:01 Quit webguest62 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
15:17:06JdGordonif the audio book was split into tracks for each chapter then for sure it could be
15:18:13markunbecause you want to stop listening after one of the chapters is finished?
15:18:42 Quit keilj ()
15:18:48JdGordoni dunno....
15:18:57JdGordoni dont tihnk its actually possible anyway
15:19:01markunIf you only add the tracks you want to listen to then the idle timeout will also shut down after the tracks
15:19:19amiconnpreglow: Why do you think so? I had a look at the sources for an Amiga mpeg video player, which does the idct in m68k asm (fixed point)
15:19:38amiconnThere are streaks of mul and add, which should profit considerably from emac...
15:19:41*JdGordon goes onto next thought...
15:19:47 Join Damme [0] (
15:19:55JdGordonis there any real reason why the codec list is hardocded?
15:19:56markunJdGordon: multiple selects in a list would be nice.. :)
15:20:22amiconnUnfortunately we cannot use the idct as-is, because it uses some m68k features not present in coldfire
15:20:57amiconn(add.w and similar things, with the registers stuffed with 2 16bit values)
15:22:45amiconnCheck sjrevdct.s
15:24:56JdGordonhmm... the get_metadata is the only thing that really needs a static identifier for each codec... could that function be moved into the codec itself?
15:25:52 Join webguest38 [0] (
15:26:03webguest38amiconn : did you see links i put
15:26:04linuxstbJdGordon: You can't implement a codec purely via a codec plugin - so why do you want to un-hardcode the codec list?
15:26:36webguest38about idft
15:26:37JdGordonyou cant? and just looking for something to do :p
15:27:02webguest38as far as i read in idct in mpegplayer iDFT can be good
15:27:35 Quit Damme_ (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
15:28:21linuxstbJdGordon: No. You also need to implement get_metadata() for the codec - otherwise the playback code can't get the info it needs about the file (including confirming which codec the file contains) before loading the codec plugin and playing it.
15:29:05JdGordonlinuxstb: ah, ye, i realised that a min ago.. is that the only thing holdingit back tho?
15:29:15linuxstbJdGordon: Going back to your "sleep after X tracks" question - I think there's a function somewhere which gets called on a track change event. So that could be the place to implement it.
15:30:01linuxstbJdGordon: Yes. But I can't think of any way around it, without creating "get_metadata" plugins...
15:30:52 Quit backfull ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
15:31:49 Join |apo| [0] (
15:32:16JdGordonlinuxstb: couldnt you add another entry point to each codec to return a filled out metadata struct? (i mean, pass a * to one from the core and the codec sets it up)? do that before loading the file properly?
15:32:22 Quit petur ("CGI:IRC (brain usage collision)")
15:32:47linuxstbJdGordon: Where would you load that codec to? The codec buffer is already occupied by the codec decoding the current track.
15:33:21linuxstbAnother problem is the WPS - you need a fixed list of codecs for the WPS to display bitmaps for the different codecs.
15:33:54JdGordonumm... plugin buffer? (the metadata isnt needed if your in a plugin)
15:33:59LinusNall of these issues are of course solvable with some kind of dynamic registration of codecs at boot
15:34:02JdGordonand the wps could be handled easily..
15:34:13linuxstbJdGordon: It is needed if you're in a plugin.
15:34:13LinusNbut is it worth the effort? i think not
15:35:00JdGordonlinuxstb: why? if its to figure out if the file is for that codec, then why not use the codec buffer seen as yout going to load into it anyway to start decoding it?
15:35:15JdGordonLinusN: decreased core size, easier to add new codecs.. ?
15:35:15 Quit webguest38 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
15:35:36LinusNit's not like we add new codecs avery day
15:35:39Mikachui don't think that's the hard part
15:35:49amiconnJdGordon: The codec buffer is occupied by the codec decodic the current track
15:35:57JdGordon.. also im bored and it looks like something moderatly fun to do
15:37:24linuxstbJdGordon: Because the codec to be used to decode the next track is stored in the audio buffer before the track itself - to prevent spinning the disk up.
15:37:42 Join blacklabel [0] (
15:37:47JdGordonhmm.. ok, moving metadata out of the core would kill tagcache loading so ig uess there is no point...
15:37:48linuxstbSo we either need to know what codec to use, or buffer them all...
15:37:59JdGordonlinuxstb: ok, gotcha
15:38:02blacklabeli've a very simmmmple question
15:38:19JdGordonshort out stout.. here is my handle.. here is my soput!
15:38:32blacklabelwhats disktidy?
15:38:38blacklabelin plugins
15:38:45*JdGordon is asleep and read that as I'm ... ignore me
15:38:48Mikachuit removes dirs created by the apple os
15:38:57linuxstbAnd Windows I thought?
15:39:07Mikachuah yes
15:39:28blacklabelso is it useful?
15:39:50Mikachui guess it might be if you use windows or macosx?
15:39:51blacklabeli cannot understand that! i'm not good at that field
15:39:52linuxstbOnly if you're annoyed by the extra files your operating system writes to your DAP.
15:40:48blacklabelwindows means my laptop, right?
15:41:58blacklabelwhat kind of dirs ?it means...
15:42:23linuxstbThings like the recycle bin
15:42:56JdGordonlinuxstb: isnt it enough to go by the fle extension (which is what it looks like it does now anywya) to know which codec to load?
15:43:05blacklabelso it can removes files in rockbox in ipod? right?
15:44:01linuxstbJdGordon: No - vorbis (and soon) Speex both use .ogg, AAC and Apple Lossless both use .m4a
15:44:15JdGordonbah, damn them :p
15:44:26Bagderthe extension is used for the container mostly I guess
15:44:29linuxstbWe may also support FLAC in Ogg at some point if anyone asks.
15:44:49linuxstbAnd with video it will get worse...
15:44:59LinusNand isn't WAV a container too?
15:45:03Mikachuit is
15:45:10Mikachuyou can have a wav with mp3
15:45:26linuxstbYes. Our "WAV" codec is in fact many codecs (but not mp3...)
15:47:02 Quit eGen_ ("mýdlo končí ! ... ručník končí !")
15:48:32blacklabelhey. so it removes the files in ipod? i'm really curious ...
15:48:43blacklabelor not
15:48:52JdGordonit removes the unneeded system files
15:48:59JdGordonif your runnig windows then you dont need it
15:49:13 Quit apo` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
15:49:15blacklabelonly uses in apple OSX?
15:49:28JdGordonno.. but mostly ony osx
15:50:00blacklabeland it removes the unneeded files to use ipod?
15:50:55linuxstbJdGordon: There is also a lot of code shared between the different metadata parsers - e.g. FLAC and Ogg both use Vorbis comments. Wavpack and Musepack both use APEv2 comments...
15:51:23JdGordonok.. idea is long gone from my twisted head...
15:51:46 Part LinusN
15:52:13linuxstbYou could find and port another video codec to see how it compares against libmpeg2...
15:52:40JdGordonive never done anything like that.. how does one go about doing that sort of thing?
15:52:49blacklabelanyway thx.dude
15:52:52linuxstb1) Find a codec; 2) Port it.
15:53:06 Quit blacklabel ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
15:53:17 Quit theli_ua (Remote closed the connection)
15:53:21JdGordon... :p
15:53:35linuxstbThe way I port codecs is to firstly write a simple standalone C program to implement decoding on my PC - one that doesn't rely on any external libraries. Once it's in that state, it's relatively easy to turn it into a plugin.
15:54:04 Join theli_ua [0] (
15:56:35linuxstbBut the problem is finding a suitable implementation to start with. I would like to try to get the ffmpeg MPEG-1/2 decoder working in Rockbox, but it's very entwined in the rest of ffmpeg.
15:56:53 Quit Nibbier (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
15:57:26Mikachuthey have an mp3 and vorbis decoder too, but i think they're mostly x86 optimized
15:59:13linuxstbFrom what I can see, both their mp3 and vorbis decoders are floating point.
15:59:25 Join Nibbier [0] (
15:59:28Mikachuthat is likely
15:59:34Mikachuare video codecs usually integer?
16:00:18linuxstbI don't know. libmpeg2 is...
16:00:24nudelynwhen are portable/low-power CPUs going to get floating point support, dag nammit?
16:00:50linuxstbWhen they stop becoming portable and low-power?
16:00:53Bagderthey get DSPs these days
16:01:06Bagderlike the dreaded tms320s
16:01:06flux__are floating-point dsp's common?-o
16:01:11flux__or do they even exist
16:01:14 Join saturat [0] (
16:01:18flux__I'd imagine they would
16:02:16amiconnYes they do
16:06:54 Join loco [0] (
16:07:58JdGordondid anyone check out my settings patch? i rekon the integer settings are fairly usable in the list and adding a slider would bloat it...
16:08:02 Join eGen_ [0] (
16:09:03locoSlasheri: are you around by accident?
16:09:14discopizzacan the x5L record radio? (with or without rockbox)
16:10:51BagderI would think that Rockbox can at least
16:11:04Bagderbut I never use the radio nor recording ;-)
16:13:43discopizzai always hear stuff on the radio id love to record :-)
16:14:05 Quit actionshrimp (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
16:16:05Slasheriloco: hi, now i am :)
16:16:08Dammehmmm, ipod with usb-keyboard .. wouldn't be too hard I think ;) but rather stupid function :PP
16:16:56locoSlasheri: fine. hi. is filename meant to be able to be used as a filter in tagnavi.config?
16:18:40Slasheriloco: probably it should work. But currently you can't use any non-numeric filters that point to other tags. For example searching by artist, you can only filter using the artist string and numeric fields
16:18:56Slasheribut other string fields can be supported in future when tagcache is loaded in ram
16:19:11Slasheriusing them when tagcache operates from disk would be too slow
16:19:35locoSlasheri: ok, i'm asking, because i had a problem with that.
16:19:42Slasherigood :)
16:19:49locodepends. ;)
16:19:59Slasheribut feel free to implement that feature ;)
16:20:14Slasherii have limited time to do everything :P
16:20:15locosomehow i knew you'd say that... *g*
16:20:20Slasherihehe :D
16:21:14preglowamiconn: *shrug*, depends on the code structure, i guess, but most dct code uses butterflies all over the place, and they can't benefit much from most mac instruction sets
16:21:56locothe problem is, that i used a filter like artist ? file !^ "/record/audio/", but tagcache checks whether artist !^ "/record/audio"
16:23:12locobut it works fine if i do artist ? title !^ "/record/audio/", which, in fact, doesn't make much sense.
16:23:41Slasheriloco: hmm, that's interesting
16:23:51Slasherido you have tagcache in ram?
16:24:01Slasheriif so, try using it directly from disk
16:24:08Slasherithat might be a problem with the dircache pointers then
16:24:27JdGordondoes anyone in here have the non lcd remote or iriver?
16:24:27Slasheriand i really didn't know that even should work at all
16:24:40locodoes it make a difference whether i use it from disk or from ram in the sim?
16:24:52Bg3rJdGordon: i have
16:24:56Bg3rbut it's at home
16:25:00Slasheriloco: yes, it should work in sim the same way as on target too
16:25:10Bg3rand i won't carry my player with me today
16:25:13Slasheribtw, do you have dircache enabled on simulator?
16:25:16locook, i'll try that
16:25:27Bg3rJdGordon: are you asking for button mappings ?
16:25:31locoyes, i'll turn both caches off.
16:25:36Slasheriok, good
16:25:40JdGordonBg3r: useless... :D and no
16:25:43JdGordonbacklight buisness
16:25:48Slasheriand that bug should be fixed then.. :)
16:26:02Bg3rah, what about it ?
16:26:43locoSlasheri: ok, that seems to work.
16:26:52saturatanyone know a channel for Sansa e200 ?
16:27:01Slasheriloco: nice to hear that, then it has something to do with the dircache
16:27:08amiconnSlasheri: Did you already look into the failing tagcache problem? I added a comment; it looks like tagcache fails after any sub-browser usage (language, fonts, plugins etc)
16:27:22Bg3rJdGordon: ah, i'll look into it tomorrow
16:27:48JdGordonBg3r: im about to upload a patch for that, if you could test it that would be great :)
16:27:50Slasheriamiconn: yes, i did some investigation on that (with language files, but i didn't know it fails with other usage also)
16:28:03Slasheriamiconn: but i was unable to find the cause yet
16:28:45Bg3rJdGordon: my player is disassembled atm
16:28:54Bg3rbut i can bring my remote here tomorrow
16:30:23Slasheriamiconn: hmm, is there a bug report about the problem?
16:30:50Slasheri(i mean in FS)
16:30:56locoSlasheri: just for my understanding: it depends on whether *tag*cache is loaded in ram?
16:31:39Slasheriloco: yes, but probably dircache must be loaded ram also to reproduce the problem
16:31:47Slasheriplease try without dircache and with tagcache in ram
16:31:56Slasherianyway, the problem is inside tagcache.c
16:33:10locoSlasheri: doesn't work
16:33:23locook, i'll try to find something.
16:33:55Slasherigood :) you should probably notice that the filename tag is a special tag in the way that it's never loaded as a string in ram
16:34:37Slasheriinstead the seek position seek[tag_filename] either contains the seek location in filename tag file or a dircache pointer when dircache has been enabled
16:34:49locoyes, it's being questioned from dircache if needed, isn't it?
16:35:03Slasheriprobably the filtering part doesn't know about that and tries to use tag directly as a normal string tag
16:35:39 Quit secleinteer (Connection reset by peer)
16:35:51locoi've already got a suspicion.
16:35:52Slasherithe problem is probably inside the function build_lookup_list
16:35:57Slasherigreat :)
16:36:25 Join secleinteer [0] (
16:36:32JdGordonif i do a patch for this is there any chance it can be commited? i constanly find myself racing the auio playback to lower the volume when turning on the player..
16:37:40SlasheriJdGordon: yes, or some kind of *slow* audio fade in would be preferred also
16:38:17Slasheriit's pain for example if you have forgotten player to the line out level and turn it on with in-ear monitors plugged in
16:38:37JdGordonslow fade in could be done.. but just setting it to a set level would be eaiser, and smaller code
16:39:52Slasherithat sounds like a good solution also
16:40:04 Part saturat
16:40:10preglowSlasheri: isn't it possible to simplify the crossfade settings somehow?
16:40:21preglowi gave it a shot the other day, and while it works great, the settings aren't exactly intuitive
16:40:47Slasheripreglow: yes, the other fade delay is unnecessary
16:41:20Slasheribut i haven't got the time to improve the crossfade settings yet..
16:41:43Slasheriso a "fade position" or something like that should do it
16:42:00XavierGrSlasheri: Don't worry, you will have plenty of time after the 22th of August
16:42:42preglowwouldn't just a "fade in/out ratio" from 0-100% be nice?
16:42:59preglowunless i'm misunderstanding how this works major, which i think i am
16:44:17Slasheriboth fade in and fade out duration are necessary
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16:44:40Slasheribecause fade out duration also defines the whole crossfade process length
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16:45:15Slasheriamiconn: thanks
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16:46:33XavierGrLOL the video decoder runs more than realtime on the H300 sim! If only that could work on real target.
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16:47:17JdGordonSlasheri: where in the menu do u tinhk i should put the option? general settings > system ?
16:47:36Slasheripreglow: fade in/out delay can be combined, as that defines the point when start *cross*fading
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16:47:55SlasheriJdGordon: hmm, i think playback or sound settings could be better
16:48:13JdGordonSlasheri: i dont tinhk so, becuase its not really a sound or playback option....
16:50:26locoSlasheri: could you please tell me, what (hdr->indices[idxid].flag & FLAG_DIRCACHE) means?
16:50:54Slasheriamiconn: good, your latest comment makes it much more easier to start finding the issue
16:51:46Slasheriloco: if that check is true, it meens that hdr->indices[tag_filename] contains a dircache pointer instead of real seek
16:52:15locook, thanks
16:52:35Slasheriloco: and to obtain the filename, you need to call dircache_copy_path function
16:53:11locoyes, but it doesn't get called.
16:53:22Slasheriups, hdr->indices[idxid].seek[tag_filename]
16:53:32Slasheriyep, then that is the problem.. :)
16:53:54Slasheriwould you like to fix it?
16:54:41locoi'm still trying to understand what's going on. ;)
16:55:31locoah, hang on, i think i've found something.
16:56:27locoif (tcs->type == tag_filename... but it isn't.
16:56:42*linuxstb reads the description of the crossfade settings in the manual and doesn't understand it...
16:57:17JdGordonSlasheri: it works :)
16:57:34preglowlinuxstb: crossfade settings are hard to understand, heh
16:57:57linuxstbI think I need some pretty pictures...
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17:00:39linuxstbI don't understand the "fade-out" mode - does setting this to "mix" mean that the first track doesn't fade at all?
17:01:05JdGordonSlasheri: can you commit it? #2685
17:01:49preglowlinuxstb: it means none of them fades, afaik
17:01:57preglowlinuxstb: it just mixes the tracks without altering volume
17:02:01preglowagain, afaik
17:02:40SlasheriJdGordon: hmm, why don't you set it in settings_apply()?
17:03:04linuxstbThe manual says "If set to Mix, the ending song will continue to play as normal until its end, while the starting song will fade in from under it." Which seems the same as setting fade-out duration to zero.
17:03:13JdGordonbecause thats called more often than just on a reboot.. if i put it there it would mean the volume setting would be useless..
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17:03:27Slasherilinuxstb: no, it's not the same
17:04:01Slasherilinuxstb: the next song will play and fade in the fade out duration time
17:04:35linuxstbSo in that case, what is the fade-in duration time for?
17:04:51Slasherithat option is useful, if songs "naturally" fade out in the end
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17:05:16Slasheriso we can just process and mix the next song, keeping previous song unchanged
17:06:45linuxstbIn mix mode, I can think of two possible settings - when to start the fade-in (relative to the end of the first track), and how long to fade in for. But we have four settings...
17:07:04Slasherilinuxstb: hmm, in fact i am not absolutely sure how the latest code works
17:07:34 Quit mkey (""Welcome to IRC; Where men are men, women are men and little girls are FBI agents!"")
17:07:40Slasheribut fade out duration always defines the crossfade buffer length
17:07:56Slasheriso mix mode can't work if it's set to 0
17:08:23linuxstbWould just having a single "crossfade length" setting simplify things? And then further settings to define what we do during that time?
17:08:41Slasherifade in duration defines the total time next song fades in. And that time can exceed the crossfade duration length
17:09:02Slasheriso typically there is fade out -> crossfade -> fade in
17:09:04linuxstbOK... So the total crossfade length can be more than the buffer...
17:09:20Slasheriyep, but not *cross*fade
17:09:36Slashericrossfade can happen only inside the buffer
17:09:48tucozI can make some images for the manual.
17:09:55Slasheriand then fading the single track outside the buffer
17:10:43***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
17:10:53linuxstbtucoz: That would help. Or a graphical settings screen :)
17:11:09Slasherigraphical setting screen would be the best
17:11:10tucozlinuxstb, yes. that would be splendid
17:11:54locoSlasheri: tcs->type contains the type of the first filter?
17:12:24Slasheriloco: hmm, yes. it should contain the base filter what entries we are searching for
17:12:55locook, then i think i know why it's not working, but i think, fixing it is beyond my skills. :(
17:13:01tucozhmm, a graphical settings screen would mean that we just show two incoming lines, and two outcoming lines, and change what's in between regarding on setting?
17:13:36Slasheriloco: hmm, did you find out what causes the problem?
17:13:47locoi think so.
17:13:59Slasheriloco: sounds good :)
17:14:47linuxstbtucoz: If you designed it, maybe someone would implement it... We should try and fit it on the remotes as well though.
17:15:05tucozSure, I'll see what I can do
17:15:17locothe check in tagcache_retrieve reads (tcs->type == tag_filename && hdr->indices[idxid].flag & FLAG_DIRCACHE), but tcs-> type ist artist aka 0 and tag_filename is 4. the clause's type is tag_filename, but tagcache_retrieve doesn't have the information, which clause is relevant.
17:15:48*JdGordon goes to bed, gnite all
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17:16:03linuxstbtucoz: Although I don't think we have drawing functions in core Rockbox... But it could be a plugin - "Crossfade visualiser"
17:16:07Slasheriloco: ah.. then you could try changing tcs->type to tag_filename and after retrieve change it back
17:16:15Slasheriat least you could try if that fixes the problem
17:16:28locosounds good
17:17:17tucozlinuxstb, but then we would have to export the crossfade settings to the plugin api, right?
17:18:08locoSlasheri: works
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17:19:27Slasheriloco: nice! :D
17:19:49linuxstbtucoz: Probably... But that would probably be better than having a complex crossfade settings screen in the core. I don't even know if other people think it's a good idea....
17:20:04locoat least it fixes the comparison, i hope, it doesn't break anything else. but it isn't the way a patch should look, is it?
17:20:14tucozhehe, I can think of one that will most certainly complain
17:20:28tucozbut I agree to some extent
17:20:56tucozA plugin is probably better. But, the settings are kind of hard to understand as they are.
17:21:28Slasheriloco: did you do the modification around the line 681?
17:22:41Slasheriok, i can check if i find a better way to do that or just commit that fix
17:22:48crwlugh, i was wondering why rockbox navigation feeled kind of laggy after updating, must be that horizontal scrolling patch?
17:23:18preglowit doesn't react until the key is depressed
17:23:26preglowi'm starting to be in favour of reverting that patch
17:24:02preglowi value being able to use directional keys to navigate quickly more than i do having a fast way to scroll the screen
17:24:05locoSlasheri: fine. sorry to bother you with that tagcache stuff all the time. ;)
17:24:06preglowby far
17:24:10linuxstbtucoz: Maybe just start by adding some images to the manual, and then take it from there. Maybe someone will come up with a better set of settings (or names for the existing ones) once it's clearer what they all do.
17:26:08crwlme too, because i don't think i've actually ever needed horizontal scrolling
17:26:10tucozlinuxstb, I am on that part.
17:26:22Slasheriloco: i don't see any better way to do that, just committing the change
17:26:38tucozI like the horizontal scrolling. Better than the previous one.
17:27:15BigMacdo any of you use quicktime pro 7
17:27:28BigMacbecause the vlc wont accept swf files
17:27:37locoSlasheri: well, you could add an extra parameter to the tagcache_retrieve function, but that wouldn't be very nice either.
17:27:46BigMacand neither is quicktime but quicktime is supposed to
17:28:20Slasheriloco: yes, it wouldn't be nice because that function is included in the tagcache api also
17:28:25preglowi wish flash would vanish
17:28:31preglowutterly and completely
17:28:43preglowfor some reason, people just can't use it for something worthwhile
17:28:52preglowin the meantime, it's used for a billion annoying things
17:28:53Slasheriloco: and outside tagcache there shouldn't be the need for that type of queries
17:28:54BigMacflash is an important part in alot of webdevelopment
17:29:01preglowyes, i know...
17:29:06preglowand it's annoying me
17:29:13locoSlasheri: right
17:29:25preglowat some point i just deleted my flash plugin
17:29:27preglowlive has been good since
17:29:31preglowlife too
17:30:12BigMacwell then your one in a million
17:30:30Mikachui find flashblock is a good way to get rid of unwanted stupid sites, but still be able to see video clips and games
17:31:07BigMaci got a solution
17:31:15BigMacrockbox doesnt support sound
17:31:27BigMacso ill just use captivate to screen capture it
17:31:32BigMacthen vlc to convert
17:31:33Slasherifor example is a "great" example of flash.. With my linux browser (konqueror and firefox) both have flash plugins installed but neither one can access that site
17:31:48Slasherithere is just an empty screen
17:32:42ArathisSlasheri: perhaps they use flash newer than version 7.
17:32:49Mikachuthey don't
17:32:58Mikachu works fine
17:33:01Mikachuthey just fail at life
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17:37:38preglowflash needs to be abolished
17:37:43BigMacanyone use macromedia captivate
17:37:44preglowthe only good flash app i have seen is the flashdoc thing
17:37:47preglowwhich is very neat
17:38:23tucozSlasheri, Fade in delay is applied before fade-in duration?
17:39:43Mikachui like the screen scroll thing, but i mostly use select and menu to navigate
17:39:55Mikachuso i wouldn't be annoyed by the slight lag
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17:40:57Mikachuhow about an option? :>
17:41:23crwlor a code fork? ;)
17:42:02Mikachuthat wouldn't be a problem for me, of course i keep the version i like
17:42:56crwlno, i mean a code fork with a huge flamefest and the community totally splitting up and the like
17:43:01Mikachuoh okay
17:43:08Mikachuno that is probably not a good idea
17:43:12preglowthat would be cool
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17:43:18locosounds fun
17:43:33Mikachuwe can call it suckbox
17:43:53crwlwhich one? the one with horizontal scroll patch, i take it
17:44:14Mikachuthat would depend on if it's reverted or not
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17:56:05tucozSlasheri, linuxstb: is this correct?
18:01:08tucoz..or someone else who understands crossfade
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18:03:45Slasheritucoz: yes, that seems to be correct
18:04:11tucozok. good
18:06:10locoSlasheri: now it works great. thanks and bye
18:06:11linuxstbSo a) and b) (fade-out delay and duration) aren't used in mix mode?
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18:06:27tucozNot according to the manual at least
18:08:55Slasherihmm, fade out duration is used
18:09:16Slasheribecause that defines the crossfade buffer length
18:09:27tucozhmm, how would that work?
18:09:53Slasherihowever, fade out delay is irrelevant
18:10:14Slasheriand so is fade in delay also
18:10:37tucozWhy is fade in delay irrelevant in the mix mode?
18:11:34Slasheriso fade out duration means how long the buffer is (how much to mix), and fade in duration defines the fade in period
18:11:39Slasheriother settings shouldn't be used in mix mode
18:11:46Slasheribut back soon ->
18:13:07mortalhas anyone reverse engineered the firmware of zen nano plus?
18:13:38markunnudelyn: about DAPs using FP: The Toshiba S uses a Freescale MCIMX31LVKN5 with a 'Vector floating point coprocessor'
18:15:08*tucoz doesn't get it
18:16:00tucozI mean. Wouldn't it be easier if we didn't have to think about buffers when using crossfade.
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18:18:09tucozAre the names of the settings wrong? I thought 'fade out duration' was for the end of track, and 'fade in duration' for the beginning of the next track.
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19:02:00linuxstbmirak: Hi. I had another quick look at xvidcore the other day, and can't believe how big it is... Do you know of any other xvid decoders (excluding ffmpeg) ?
19:02:23miraklinuxstb: no, sorry
19:02:41miraklinuxstb: you manage to make it work ?
19:03:08miraklinuxstb: with xvidcore I was obliged to increase plugin ram size.
19:03:26mirakthere is a lot of inlining
19:03:26linuxstbNo, I didn't get that far. I updated it as far as making it compile with the latest plugin API changes, and then tried to look for places to reduce the size to avoid increasing the plugin RAM size.
19:04:10linuxstbYes, I found one function alone which (due to all the inlining) was about 30KB...
19:04:15mirakhum by the way on libmpeg how did you managed to handle the 3 image buffers ?
19:04:31linuxstbYou mean the internal buffers?
19:04:41linuxstbI just implemented malloc.
19:04:52mirakand you use the buffer ram
19:04:59mirak"audio ram"
19:05:09linuxstbYes. Currently, 2MB is given to a malloc buffer.
19:05:23linuxstbIn my test streams, I think about 1.3MB was used.
19:05:44linuxstbThat's something that also needs investigating, to perhaps make them static.
19:05:52linuxstb(or if not static, at least a fixed size)
19:06:22mirakthe size doesn't change while playing
19:06:32mirakI think xvidcore can change resolution
19:06:50linuxstbWe could always disable that feature...
19:07:43mirakxvidcore is really huge.
19:07:55mirakthe stream parser is weird
19:08:21miraklinuxstb: did you separated the encoder and the decoder ?
19:08:51linuxstbI just took your existing port - I've done nothing more than you so far.
19:09:32linuxstbDid you remove any of the encoder functions?
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19:10:45***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
19:11:55miraklinuxstb: all I think
19:12:04miraklinuxstb: and I tried to remove stuffs also
19:12:36mirakbut I am not sure of that
19:12:58mirakI mean I am not sure I posted other modifications I did to the codec
19:13:15netmasta10btremove any of the encoder functions?
19:13:18mirakand I think everything is gone
19:13:41mirakI think I removed the encoder functions
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19:14:05mirakbut no iram modifications etcetera
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19:17:26bluebrotherhi tucoz
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19:25:09tucozhi bluebrother
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19:27:59bluebrothertucoz, do you think we should go on with moving towards the new proposed structure?
19:28:39tucoz(however that is spelled)
19:29:12bluebrotherhave you read the new stuff I wrote? Especially is the hint to the support channels understandable?
19:29:32 Quit theli_ua ("quit")
19:29:57tucozhmm, I haven't read that. I read your proposal for a new directory layout a week ago (i think)
19:30:41tucozah, the introduction?
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19:31:31bluebrotheryes, it's in the "getting started" chapter
19:31:37bluebrother(I checked it in this morning)
19:31:47tucozI understand it. And I think it is wise to inform a user about support channels as early on as possible.
19:32:16tucozok, I'll check it out. I have only read whats in the proposed structure.
19:32:55bluebrotherI had some time this weekend so I started writing a bit on it ...
19:33:39tucozreally great to see work on the manual
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19:34:30tucozBut I read a post regarding the manual which made me _really_ think that it is in need of a more though out structure.
19:34:44bluebrotherin the forums?
19:34:56tucozthe post said something like, "the manual, that piece of text is impossible to understand"
19:34:59tucozI think so
19:35:01tucozor in the logs
19:35:20bluebrotherI think the structure isn't the best at all which was one reason for proposing the new one.
19:35:41bluebrotherI don't like that kind of comments. Whining and not saying what's the problem doesn't help
19:35:53tucozI may be exaggerating
19:36:56bluebrotherunfortunately when it comes to end users that kind of comments occur pretty often :(
19:37:16tucozBut, the point is that it should serve as a comprehensive source of information, not as a thing people hesitate to read becuase it is not structured well.
19:37:56bluebrothertrue. But it isn't pretty easy writing it comprehensive and easy to read at the same time.
19:37:56tucozyes, but we can do our best to make it a good read.
19:38:50S0apIf I can butt in...I think the reason many people complain about the manual is that they don't /want/ to know about RockBox, they want an answer to a specific question. The manual is not ment for that usage pattern, and thus it fails.
19:39:19bluebrotherWith time passing I guess the manual will improve. At least it did so the last months
19:39:41bluebrotherS0ap, good point. Maybe an index would be sufficient? What do you think?
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19:41:06S0apIf a series of quickstart guides was written detailing the differences between stock firmware usage and RockBox usage (on a target-by-target basis) that _might_ have a chance of catching the interest of a noob. But that would be a lot of work, and I don't think the kind of people who want the quick answers will ever be satisfied.
19:41:21bluebrotherbut otoh rockbox itself is complex to some degree, so a bit more understanding of its concepts is necessary if you don't just want it to play files.
19:41:39S0apAn index would help, but I still think a comprehensive, platform-specific FAQ would do more.
19:42:21bluebrotherI already had the idea of including the FAQ (at least the important parts of it) but I don't have any idea how to make this best.
19:42:27S0ap"An Ipod user's guide to RockBox" "An Iriver user's guide to RockBox"
19:42:34tucoza quickstart guide would be better than a faq (imo)
19:42:51tucozbut base the quickstart from faq
19:43:17bluebrotherhmm. We could write a quick start (as proposed for the new structure) and add a platform specific too
19:43:20tucoza tiny tutorial, to get the feel of rockbox.
19:43:38S0apI've pointed out this link before...but
19:43:51S0ap(NOT Digital Audio Player)
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19:43:56bluebrotheryes, rockbox is to some degree different to "usual" firmwares.
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19:44:41tucozI think a faq is best when used in an hyperlinked context. Not in a printed manual.
19:46:00S0apYou are always going to have the people who come to RockBox because they heard they can play Doom, and want instant gratification, there is no way in hell any document will catch their eye, I propose giving Febs a 00 designation, license to kill.
19:46:47Terinjokesdoom goes slow on mine, plus, i was never really good at doom
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19:47:10bluebrotherthe problem will always be end users that simply want to "use" it forgetting the fact that rockbox has a bunch of possibilities.
19:47:21tucozwell, lazy people will always be around. I don't think we should target the manual towards people intending to use rockbox as a doom-device
19:47:29bluebrotherbut more options also means more knowledge until you can really "use" it.
19:47:39linuxstbI'm not sure you need a platform-specific guide to Rockbox. A quick-start guide would tell users how to achieve the basic tasks quickly - I'm not sure it needs to compare with how the original firmware does those tasks.
19:47:43bluebrothertucoz, agreed.
19:47:54Terinjokesno, thats what IPL is for, Doom and GameBoy, and floating cubes
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19:48:38tucozI think the manual should document rockbox in a comprehensive manner. With a quickstart leaving the user with enough information to further expolore rockbox.
19:49:24tucozlinuxstb, yes. I do not think we have to tell the user how their original firmware is compared to rockbox.
19:49:29MikachuTerinjokes: rockbox has all of those...
19:49:52Terinjokesyes, but rockbox, Imho should be geared toward music, rather then games
19:50:01Terinjokesthats what IPL is for
19:50:06tucozthat would be like a 'switch' document which is something different than a quick start.
19:50:07Mikachuunfortunately that's not up to you
19:50:19sharpehaha. reminds me. i should get started on re-writing that atari emulator. :D
19:50:28linuxstbTerinjokes: Rockbox _is_ geared towards music. It also happens to have the ability to run plugins, and they can be anything developers want to develop.
19:50:42 Quit mantono ("Don't worry, be happy")
19:50:59linuxstbAnd some users use Rockbox purely for the plugins.
19:51:06Bagderrockbox had gameboy and cube before ipl iirc
19:51:11Terinjokesyes, yes, just who _developed_ rockboy? i want to play mario!
19:51:29tucozTerinjokes, HCl developed rockboy
19:51:42tucozwhich is based on gnuboy
19:51:49Terinjokestoo bad i don't know "C"
19:51:58tucoz(or rather a port of gnuboy)
19:52:00S0aplinuxstb - while I agree platform-specific guides aren't needed, I do think it is the best solution if your goal is to tame impaitent noob complaints/requests.
19:52:24S0apSpeaking from the paradigm they are used to (I bet) would work well.
19:53:08Paul_The_NerdThe problem with speaking in relation to the retail firmware is that it gives the impression that you either care what retail was like, or in some way are designing around it.
19:53:19Paul_The_NerdThis helps give rise to "Well the original firmware did it this way" style requests.
19:53:22tucozWell, I think platform install instructions are what is needed. From there you can read the quick start chapter, to get a feel of what rockbox is.
19:54:24S0aptucoz - I agree, but isn't the current manual pretty good at that?
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19:55:07S0apI got into this because I think the current manual is pretty good for anyone who cares to learn...but that a different approach is needed for the lazy, IF targeting them is cared about.
19:55:18tucozS0ap, well. In many ways yes. But, the proposed structure will give it a more uniform layout
19:55:29tucozAnd we lack a quickstart chapter ;)
19:55:37bluebrotherS0ap, imo the quick start is lacking pretty much.
19:56:16bluebrotherI also think without that some chapters are just ... descriptions. I'm missing a good explanation of the rockbox "feel"
19:56:17tucozwhich will cover many of the frequently asked questions. It would be nice if we could ask people: "Have you read the quick start chapter?"
19:56:27Paul_The_NerdS0ap: Targetting the lazy would require printing out the manual, putting it in their hands, and opening it to the appropriate page. The people who are too lazy to look in our manual, probably won't look in any one.
19:56:39bluebrotherI think I'll try to give it a shot the next days.
19:57:09Paul_The_NerdOur manual surely isn't done yet, but you can't really reasonably expect that changing its contents will make it more likely someone will open it. ;)
19:57:09S0apwhat is your proposed (rough) timetable for this bluebrother?
19:57:10tucozbluebrother, the 'hint to support' looks nice.
19:57:18linuxstbPaul_The_Nerd: You forgot "reading it out loud to them"
19:58:09bluebrotherS0ap, I thought about looking into it the next days, as free time floats around. So I hope to have something ready for cvs within 1 or 2 weeks.
19:58:24S0apI'll print the latest up at work again tomorrow, and start scratching out notes...I've got a lot of airplane time coming up the next four you are still formulating thoughts come Saturday I can dump on you.
19:58:33bluebrother(and thus ready for discussion here ;-)
19:58:50tucozS0ap, cool. Feedback on the manual is always welcomed
19:58:54Terinjokeswhat would be included in the quickstart
19:58:55Paul_The_Nerdlinuxstb: You've solved it! Audio-format versions of the manual included with the builds, split into section MP3 files, and chapter folders.
19:59:17bluebrotherS0ap, cool. I'll be offline that weekend but I don't think this should be a problem ;-)
19:59:20Terinjokesno, have them in OGG format ;-)
19:59:25Paul_The_NerdActually that's not half bad, in a tutorial sense. The user could do things while being read what to do.
19:59:30Paul_The_NerdTerinjokes: Wouldn't work on the Archoses.
19:59:36Terinjokesah, ok
19:59:56*Terinjokes is so used to the nano port
19:59:57bluebrotherso we need a daily reader for that :)
20:00:19 Join Menollo [0] (
20:00:36Terinjokesi can record them, i do recordings for Audio Wikinews
20:01:07bluebrotherI played around a bit with festival but I still like real audio books better
20:01:56 Join COmputoman [0] (
20:02:01COmputomanHey guys
20:02:13S0apFWIW, I'm suprised this idea died on the vine
20:02:34COmputomanHey does anyone in the channel at the momment use rockbox for the ipod video?
20:02:52COmputomanI was really intrested in switching since i have alot of flac music
20:02:56sharpeCOmputoman: yes.
20:03:02Terinjokesi'm on the nano
20:03:12novimonme too
20:03:14COmputomanare there any drawbacks?
20:03:36novimonif you use external charger rockbox wont shout down
20:03:46Terinjokeson the video you lose video
20:03:56COmputomanyou get no video?
20:04:12S0apand you get decreased battery life.
20:04:17Terinjokesthere is mpegplayer, but its a bit flacky, and idk if its on the video
20:04:17novimonand the transferspeed of files on rockbox is bad, must use original firmware to transfer music
20:04:23S0apand no more sex with supermodels.
20:04:36Terinjokesnovimon, S0ap, be +++
20:04:42sharpenovimon: that is only on the ipod nanos.
20:04:45linuxstbCOmputoman: You don't lose video, but Rockbox doesn't have video playback. You just need to boot into the Apple firmware if you want to play back videos.
20:04:46Paul_The_Nerdnovimon: That's not Rockbox that has the bad transfer speed
20:04:57Paul_The_Nerdnovimon: That's the Apple Emergency Disk Mode. Rockbox doesn't have a USB mode yet.
20:05:05COmputomanso wait
20:05:08novimonPaul_The_Nerd: ah, ok, my bad
20:05:14COmputomanyou can run both firmwares
20:05:18COmputomanlike dual boot
20:05:24linuxstbCOmputoman: Yes - exactly like dual boot.
20:05:28COmputomanThats knarly
20:05:44Terinjokesare you on windows?
20:05:48COmputomanSo do you have to retransfer all of your music when installed
20:05:51COmputomanyes Terinjokes
20:05:53 Quit mkey (""Welcome to IRC; Where men are men, women are men and little girls are FBI agents!"")
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20:06:31TerinjokesComputoman, no, you don't have to, just itunes stores the music in a hidden directory, and with garbled filenames
20:06:37linuxstbCOmputoman: No. But if you don't, you're restricted to using Rockbox's tag database to access the music, rather than the file-browser interface.
20:06:48S0apYou don't have to retransfer all your music, as RockBox can build its own tag database from your crazy-stored itunes folders, but many prefer the beauty that is folder-tree browsing.
20:07:25Terinjokeslinuxstb, S0ap, i've never figured out how to used the tag database, probably because i never tried :D
20:07:27linuxstbCOmputoman: You may want to read the links here:
20:08:26COmputomanso in rockbox are there 2 different options for music browsing? i.e. Tags or filetree?
20:08:56COmputomanrockbox seems wise
20:09:02COmputomanI might just try it out
20:09:12Terinjokestry it, you can always go back
20:09:42COmputomanThanks for helping me !
20:09:54sharpelinuxstb: i've a question. do you think there would be any objections to spreading out the source for the atari emulator across multiple .c files, and just including them into one, for organization, without using a makefile and such...?
20:10:43linuxstbsharpe: Yes :) Just use a Makefile...
20:10:55sharpealright, that's what i thought.
20:11:09COmputomanHey do you guys think apple will ever support flac?
20:11:17linuxstbsharpe: All you need to do is take a copy from (for example) mpegplayer, edit the Makefile and search and replace "mpegplayer" for the name of your plugin, then add the relevant .c files to SOURCES
20:11:37sharpeyeah, i was looking at that earlier yesterday.
20:11:52linuxstbIn fact, now that the plugin SUBDIR plugins are growing, we should make a "" or similar which is included by the individual Makefiles.
20:12:19 Quit Landus ("Leaving")
20:12:39S0apCOmputoman - I don't think apple will ever support FLAC
20:12:42linuxstbCOmputoman: Why would they? They had their chance, but implemented Apple Lossless instead.
20:12:55S0apthey have their own lossless format, and that removes 99% of the pressure.
20:13:19Terinjokeswhy can't everyone simply use WAV?
20:13:25Paul_The_NerdBecause WAV is bigger?
20:13:34Bagderand quite obviously they sell pretty good without flac support
20:13:37COmputomanway bigger
20:13:38Terinjokesbut it sounds so much better
20:13:43Paul_The_NerdThan FLAC?
20:13:43linuxstbTerinjokes: Don't you have a Nano?
20:13:52Paul_The_NerdHow is that possible
20:13:58Paul_The_NerdFLAC decodes to bit-perfect WAV files.
20:14:15Paul_The_NerdThat's kinda the definition of "lossless"
20:14:17COmputomanI used to have a rio karma
20:14:21COmputomanIt supported flac
20:14:23COmputomanI loved it
20:14:33COmputomanThen i crashed on my skateboard with it in my hand
20:14:53linuxstbI think lots of ex Karma owners have switched to Rockbox - it's the closest thing available to a Karma.
20:14:56COmputomansome girl tried to help me up and i told her to go get my karma
20:15:01*Galois is an ex karma owner
20:15:05Galoisthere are people who claim they can tell the difference between flac and wav
20:15:27linuxstbGalois: And they can when winamp applies equaliser settings differently for different codecs....
20:15:28S0apThere are people who think putting crystals over their amps help.
20:15:42linuxstb(without telling them)
20:15:43Galoiswell, the more plausible of them base their claims on being able to hear audio noise from the extra cpu work
20:15:48S0apThere are people who think thousand dollar power cables do something.
20:16:18Galoisthe less plausible are the type that buy $2400 power cords
20:16:22linuxstbS0ap: They're not going to tell you they wasted $1000...
20:16:34COmputomanIve never heard
20:17:07 Quit Rob2222_ () is only $1500
20:17:18linuxstbThis is my favourite "audiophile" site:
20:17:35linuxstb$485 for a wooden volume control...
20:18:03 Join Rob2222 [0] (
20:18:14Terinjokeslol, linuxstb, you a digg user?
20:18:24 Join saturat [0] (
20:18:27Mikachulinuxstb: i guess you have a huge stash of shakti stones too?
20:19:14*linuxstb googles for shakti stones
20:19:27preglowthat looks like a bloody five minute job as well
20:19:28Paul_The_Nerdlinuxstb: I take it you're meant to replace all your knobs on that device, whatever it is, with wooden ones?
20:19:35preglowdone on equipment that's cheaper than the knob
20:19:49linuxstbPaul_The_Nerd: That's the idea...
20:20:09*linuxstb wants a wooden joystick for his h140
20:20:22Slasheriamiconn: fixed
20:20:41*Paul_The_Nerd wants a whole wooden case, but this is actually truth.
20:20:54Paul_The_NerdI wouldn't pay anywhere near that sort of price, mind you.
20:20:55linuxstbI'm sure I've seen wooden ipods in the past...
20:21:10Paul_The_NerdI have seen a wooden iPod.
20:21:23COmputomanSo do i just decompress the rockbox files to my ipod root folder?
20:21:46Paul_The_NerdAnd install the bootloader
20:21:53linuxstbCOmputoman: Yes, but you also need to install the bootloader first, which is more involved. See the wiki page I pointed you to earlier.
20:22:02Terinjokesthe bootloader is the hardest part
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20:23:08Paul_The_Nerdlinuxstb: Technically, it doesn't need to be first. ;)
20:23:47linuxstbNo, but I think it should be - to test the loading of the original firmware.
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20:24:13Paul_The_Nerdgood point
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20:30:57linuxstbPaul_The_Nerd: Are you only getting 20fps for video on your Nano? I thought Mikachu said he was getting around 24-25fps.
20:31:12preglowi am too
20:31:12Paul_The_NerdI get as low as 18 on the video I made.
20:31:17Paul_The_NerdDuring heavy motion periods.
20:31:18Mikachuwhat bitrate did you use?
20:31:36Mikachui think i used around 500
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20:31:36preglowi still can't make vlc output videos that don't glitch like hell
20:31:48Paul_The_NerdY'know I honestly don't know. I just threw it in the first thing I could find that could create raw mpeg2 streams to see how it looked.
20:31:51Terinjokesi can't get VLC to output
20:32:00amiconnBagder, Bg3r etc: The 47 warnings are not due to my 64bit build server, but due to gcc 4.1 - and my build server is not the only one running gcc 4.1
20:32:06amiconnThere are 2 or 3 others
20:32:21linuxstbI've now worked out how to use ffmpeg to decode, and mpeg2enc to encode - I'll add something to the wiki about it.
20:32:21Mikachudoes mplayer for windows include mencoder?
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20:33:35linuxstbBut it's basically just "ffmpeg -i input.anything -f yuv4mpegpipe - | y4mscaler .... | mpeg2enc ..."
20:34:15Mikachuyou should be able to encode with ffmpeg as well
20:34:17Paul_The_NerdMikachu: Apparently I'm using a bitrate a good deal higher...
20:34:28Mikachuthat would explain it then
20:34:34Paul_The_NerdAs I said I just threw it into the first free porgram I could find that would encode M2V
20:34:40Paul_The_NerdAnd apparently it outputted at 1150kbps
20:34:55Mikachuthat is sort of overkill for 176x128
20:34:58TerinjokesPaul_The_Nerd, try using mediacoder
20:35:03linuxstbOuch... About 400kbps should be enough - but test what that encoder needs for decent output.
20:35:11Paul_The_NerdI'm not really concerned.
20:35:20Terinjokesgtg, bye
20:35:27Paul_The_NerdI mean, I just wanted to see one video on my Nano.
20:35:44 Part Terinjokes
20:35:57Paul_The_NerdThis may very well be the last time I encode a video for it, ever. Or at least until the video player is suitably done to stop people complaining, at which point maybe I'll look into something a little more useful.
20:37:16linuxstbWe still need to decide on a container format...
20:38:00BagderI'm willing to host a few test videos in case anyone has something lying around
20:38:20linuxstbWe should probably find something legal though...
20:39:38S0aphow much overhead is introduced by any container more complex than a multiplexed .mpg?
20:39:43S0aplittle to none?
20:40:26linuxstbNo idea, but that's probably not a factor worth considering. IMO, the two important things are a) How easy is it for Rockbox to support, including seeking support; b) How easy is it for users to encode to that format.
20:40:29Mikachuencode that opensource 3d movie
20:40:41Mikachuor a part of it
20:40:49Bgerah yes
20:40:53Bgerwhat was its name ...
20:41:06Mikachusomething with oranges or elephants i think
20:41:17Bgerelephants dream
20:41:17amiconnlinuxstb: I'd vote either mpeg system stream (.mpg), or AVI
20:41:25Mikachuhooray memory
20:41:39BgerMikachu: not memory, google "blender open source movie" ... :D
20:42:07Mikachuwell, i still remembered correctly
20:42:42linuxstbamiconn: Yes, those are the two options top of my list. Seeking in .mpg isn't too bad, although the spec does allow for discontinuous timestamps... I've no idea about AVI, but it was the container recommended by the ffmpeg people when I asked there.
20:43:17Mikachunot sure how many encoders apart from mencoder let you put mpeg video in .avi though
20:43:36amiconnAVI is (at least somewhat) open, and a very common format
20:43:57amiconnThe X5 OF uses AVI for it's video support (with MPEG4 video (!))
20:44:00preglowlinuxstb: sweet jesus, i am so glad i am not audiophile
20:45:52S0apWhat scares me about the .avi container is how many different "fillings" exist in the wild, and how many freaking questions will be asked about "non-working" .AVIs in RockBox.
20:46:21Paul_The_NerdMost H300 and X5 users are used to having to run their AVIs through a conversion anyway.
20:46:30S0apBut I guess those people are going to ask regardless of container and I should just bite my tongue, as that is not a technical reason.
20:46:33Paul_The_NerdBut I do expect we'll get some "It worked in the original firmware" style questions.
20:46:35MikachuS0ap: you can put all of those "fillings" in any container
20:46:41*linuxstb downloads the HD version of Elephants Dream
20:46:47Paul_The_Nerdlinuxstb: That's what I'm doing
20:47:29Paul_The_NerdIt may be better if we store it in an avi, but rename it to rvc or something (Rockbox Video Color) and tell people to use some arbitrary video conversion process on our site, unless they know what they're doing. :-P
20:48:07Paul_The_NerdThen you still have the ability to place nice, standard formats, but newbies don't get confused over the compatibility of their files.
20:50:14linuxstbSo are there any alternatives to AVI with common support amongst encoders?
20:50:33linuxstbOr at least one good free encoder for Win/Mac/Unix etc.
20:51:49Mikachuogmmerge can read from avi files, not sure about mpeg
20:52:36S0apwhy not .mpg? I can't imagine multiple stream support being wanted in the forseeable future, nor variable framerates, or subtitles.
20:54:24Paul_The_NerdI can see subtitles
20:55:10Mikachuby subtitles he means rendering text in realtime
20:55:43Paul_The_NerdI suppose though if you're reencoding for your MP3 player, you may as well include the subtitles in the stream
20:57:02S0apsubtitle support could be tacked on to .mpg usage through exteral .srt (or other) files.
20:57:09linuxstbThe problem with mpg is seeking...
20:57:31linuxstbAssuming we're talking about standard MPEG-1/2 Program Streams.
20:57:34Mikachuhow do pc players seek in mpg? or rather, what's the problem?
20:57:58*S0ap is trying to find info in the difference between program streams and transport streams.
20:58:11*linuxstb begins his MPEG lesson
20:58:30linuxstbFirstly you have Elementary Streams - such as the .m2v files mpegplayer players, and mp2/mp3 audio files.
20:59:27S0apdig that
20:59:42linuxstbYou then have Packetized Elementary Streams (PES) which split the elementary streams into packets (normally a few thousand bytes), and the PES header contains timestamps.
21:00:24linuxstbThen you have Program Streams which I'm not sure about... But I think they're basically PES packets with some extra system headers...
21:00:42linuxstbTransport Streams split PES packets into 188 byte packets.
21:01:34*linuxstb ends the lesson, realising he didn't know as much as he thought.
21:03:13Galoistechnically, .ogg itself can be a video container too
21:03:44S0apHow lacking are the free tools for .ogm / .ogg on Windows?
21:03:51linuxstbDVB and ATSC digital TV uses Transport Streams. DVDs use Program Streams, but with extra packets for navigation.
21:05:26linuxstbElephants Dream is about 11 minutes long, so a nice sample video. Is anyone else volunteering to re-encode it, or shall I give it a go?
21:06:07Paul_The_NerdMan, since when does UPS ever show up a day EARLY?
21:06:37sharpesounds like a fiendish plot.
21:07:09*amiconn will probably reencode it to .rvf...
21:08:06linuxstbOnly issue is that it's 16:9
21:08:39preglowas long as it's not jpop
21:09:16S0ap16:9 being an issue in that you aren't taxing the player with black pixels, or 16:9 being an issue in that...?
21:10:48***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21:11:01S0apfor on Windows (can't speak for *nix) I would simply crop out a 4:3 section from the center and frameserve to the encoder of my choice, losing the sides of the image.
21:11:48 Quit Menollo ("CGI:IRC")
21:11:54S0apOr do a resize (ignoring aspect ratios) to a 4:3 scale and tell everybody it is anamorphic.
21:13:54amiconnCropping is better imho
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21:14:34linuxstbI think I'll probably encode two sets of files - cropping the side to create a 4:3 video, and a true 16:9 version which will be smaller than the LCD size, but still a useful test - most material is 16:9 nowadays.
21:14:41 Join Ribs [0] (
21:14:59amiconnI'll do that for my .rvf version too, although the archos lcd is a bit wider than 4:3 so it can deal a bit better with 16:9 video (les cropping)
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21:15:43amiconnlinuxstb: Will you encode for all our colour target resolutions?
21:15:58linuxstbYes. Once I work out the script, I'll just run it for them all.
21:16:01 Part RohnJohn
21:16:13linuxstbI'm just using command-line decoders/encoders.
21:16:20 Join RohnJohn [0] (
21:16:57*amiconn hopes to be able to decode the thing to something usable for .rvf creation
21:17:45RohnJohnHi here - is someone with X5 knowledge around - just got an x5 today - and want to install a patched build.. still some answer needed - tia.
21:22:07Mikachui think it's possible to decode with mplayer and send to multiple pipes, and encode them differently, not sure if the effort would save time though :)
21:23:03linuxstbOr add a rvf encoder to ffmpeg :)
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21:31:08tucozRohnJohn, ask your question(s) and see if you get some answers
21:32:27tucozSlasheri, around?
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21:38:09RohnJohnthanks tucoz - when i see a Rockbox build with latest patches included (like this: - do i just have to follow this guide ( to install it - or are these 'builds' already compiled ie. ready to place on the hd ?
21:39:23tucozSlasheri, let me just see if i understand mix-mode correct. The fade in/out durations are both used by the buffer. But, from a users point of view, only the fade-in duration is of interest?
21:39:59tucozSlasheri, as I understand it. The fade out duration must be > 0 for the mix mode to work. Is this right?
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21:40:55tucozRohnJohn, yes. just download the file and unzip to the root of your player
21:41:31RohnJohngreat - thanks tucoz ;)
21:41:38tucozRohnJohn, but you need to install the bootloader first
21:41:57tucozsecond, you can use whatever build (for the x5) you like. Patched or not.
21:42:15tucozJust unzip the archive to the root of your player.
21:42:19RohnJohnwell - ok - good to know - so i'll search that on audiophile.. - allright 'second'
21:43:21tucozRohnJohn, you can use cvs/daily/patched... as long as the bootloader is installed
21:43:50*petur pours himself a Leffe as preparation for some time with the eeprom driver
21:43:57RohnJohnbtw.@everyone who knows - is 'ape' planned ti supported - or did i miss it - and already is ?
21:44:13RohnJohnok - tucoz - thanks.
21:44:14*linuxstb sobs and considers going out to buy beer...
21:44:37*preglow just had one
21:44:44Paul_The_NerdRohnJohn: Ape is unlikely to be supported
21:44:46linuxstbRohnJohn: APE is unlikely for both technical and legal reasons.
21:45:15RohnJohni see - just too many files on usenet.. too bad - than i guess ;) - thanks.
21:45:23Paul_The_NerdAPE is lossless
21:45:28linuxstbBut that's the beauty of lossless...
21:45:32Paul_The_NerdSo you can transcode to any of our supported lossless formats just fine
21:45:49*tucoz is a victim of the norwegian alcohol laws that does not allow him to buy beer after a certain time of day.
21:45:50RohnJohnthought so.. - will do than..
21:46:57tucozis ape==monkeys audio?
21:47:23tucozok. And the tag format Apev2 is from that as well?
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21:49:04preglowtucoz: the more clever of us have stocked up :>
21:49:29 Quit lodesi (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:50:08preglowunfortunately, i only stocked up one
21:50:11*preglow has tea
21:50:32linuxstbThat's not a stock...
21:50:35*petur has three more left
21:51:00linuxstbHere's my first Elephants Dream encode: (16:9 version for the Nano) - I would welcome feedback on the quality. The original framerate is 24fps, and it decodes at around 31fps on my ipod Photo, so maybe it's time to implement some framerate control...
21:51:30preglowi've got two more, but i promised myself i wouldn't drink them today
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22:00:05 Part saturat
22:01:32Paul_The_Nerdlinuxstb: It seems to have settled around the 31-33 range on my Nano as well
22:02:46linuxstbGood :) I'm just encoding a full-screen 4:3 version for the Nano, so I'll upload that next. That should decode at around 24fps.
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22:12:56hotwire_the ipod photo lcd can physically handle a 31fps framerate?
22:13:44sharpephysically? what would that have to do with anything?
22:14:02Paul_The_NerdWhether the screen can refresh 31 times a second?
22:14:31sharpebut that wouldn't really be a physical limitation...
22:14:40Paul_The_NerdI would think that's physical
22:14:44Paul_The_NerdA limitation of the hardware, rather than software.
22:15:02sharpeeven so, hardware can be changed :)
22:15:46Paul_The_NerdIt's still a physical limitation of the iPod Photo's LCD
22:15:54Paul_The_NerdSince if you change it, it's not the iPod Photo's LCD any more
22:16:22linuxstbI'm testing the 176x128 version now - it's averaging around 24fps, but dropped down to about 22.5fps for some heavy motion.
22:16:22sharpeindeed, but either way i have no knowledge of the ipod photo... :D
22:17:12linuxstbThe "test_fps" plugin gives me 48.5fps on my ipod photo with the CPU boosted.
22:17:28linuxstbAnd 189.0fps for a 1/4 screen update.
22:17:42linuxstbBut that's just how many times Rockbox can update the contents of the framebuffer.
22:18:23Paul_The_NerdWhich is why the 1/4 screen while boosted can reach like rather high numbers on H100
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22:18:56*linuxstb wants to get the COP working and try audio playback...
22:19:35*Paul_The_Nerd wants linuxstb to get the COP working and try audio playback... :-P
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22:19:48dan_alinuxstb: At the moment it only works with the cache turned off
22:20:18amiconnlinuxstb: test_fps tests how many times per second rockbox can move the data to the LCD's GRAM
22:20:39linuxstbI'm pretty sure the video decoder will be OK - i.e. reading data that has long since left the cache.
22:20:52dan_aI'm trying to get things into a state where small pieces of work can be committed, and anything that won't be affected by cache problems should run
22:21:15dan_aBut I'm not finding a lot of time at the moment
22:21:27amiconnThe internal refresh rate of the lcd is another thing. For our greyscale targets this varies between ~65Hz and 90Hz. I guess the colour LCDs will have internal refresh rates of the same order
22:21:44illogic-alI've just been reading the scrollback and notivced that you guys said ape,i.e. monkey's audio isn't supported.
22:22:18illogic-alAre you sure? Because I have one album on here that's just .mpc files and they work fine.
22:22:30linuxstb.mpc is Musepack.
22:22:33illogic-alway better than .aac or .wma playback actually.
22:22:45illogic-alnm :-)
22:25:23linuxstbamiconn: There's some definite flickering occasionally during video playback - I guess that's due to us updating the GRAM at the wrong time?
22:26:55 Quit webguest67 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
22:27:07amiconnWe don't do any frame syncing, and it might not even be possible to do (depending on the target)
22:28:37S0apis frame syncing needed if the LCD framerate is an even multiple of the video frame rate?
22:29:13amiconnThe internal frame rate of the LCD will never be a stable even multiple of the video framerate
22:29:44preglowdan_a: only works with the cache disabled no matter what you do?
22:29:45amiconnALl the LCD controllers use an RC oscillator to generate the internal clock. The frequency is not very stable and varies e.g. with temperature
22:29:59preglowvaries a lot as well
22:30:15linuxstbdan_a: Also, what about the CPU speed changes? Do they still work OK?
22:30:42dan_apreglow: In all I've tried so far, yes. (Rockbox boots but will not play audio)
22:31:17dan_alinuxstb: They don't work, but IPL don't set the speed on the COP - I've yet to try that.
22:32:35*amiconn loads the DVD image of ED since he can't get the mpeg4/ac3 version to play
22:32:49dan_aI also suspect that even if what I was hoping would work as cache flush and cache invalidate functions were working, I've got my logic wrong
22:33:10S0apthanks for the info amiconn - note - I wasn't suggesting changing the LCD framerate, but it is good to know it is unstable.
22:34:06amiconnS0ap: Yes, it's not stable, and you can't change it easily with most controllers
22:34:35S0apI was more thinking of changing the mpeg framerate to match.
22:34:48amiconnEven if it were stable and we could send at the exact same rate as the internal refresh, there would still be artefacts unless we find a way to sync the frame start
22:35:00S0apeven on a PC you get less sync issues if you match your screen rate to your framerate.
22:36:04 Join saturat [0] (
22:36:08 Part saturat
22:36:16amiconnAnd in order to sync the frame start, there needs to be a way to (1) read back data from the lcd controller (possible with parallel connectiosn, but tricky to figure out how to do on undocumented interface hw, i.e. ipod)
22:37:05amiconn(2) A way to read the current position of the LCD's internal 'frame pointer'. Not all LCD controllers provide that info
22:38:07 Quit lodesi_ ("leaving")
22:39:04ShadowdogMUHow do I uninstall Rockbox, but keep my settings so I can reinstall later, I might have to ship my iPod to apple
22:39:52Paul_The_NerdSave a config file, and keep it on your computer.
22:40:18 Part RohnJohn
22:40:18ShadowdogMUOk, and do I just delete the .rockbox folder, how do I remove that bootloader thing?
22:40:27 Join lodesi [0] (
22:40:38markunShadowdogMU: it's in the wiki after the installation instructions
22:40:40linuxstbHere's the 176x128 version: (Nano 4:3)
22:40:49ShadowdogMUThanks markun
22:41:23linuxstbIt's actually before the installation instructions... I was hoping people would notice it there :)
22:41:57 Quit King ("Leaving")
22:42:05amiconnlinuxstb: How did you choose the bitrates??
22:42:44linuxstbMy MPEG encoder chose them - it just gives me a quality setting, and I chose 3 - on a scale of 1-9
22:42:49linuxstb(1 is highest quality)
22:43:06linuxstbA sensible VBR encoder :)
22:43:36*amiconn is waiting for 160x128 and 224x176 versions ;)
22:44:03linuxstbWhat do you need 160x128 for? Has your X5 arrived?
22:44:08amiconnyup :)
22:44:26linuxstbYou could try the 176x128 version I just uploaded. 224x176 is encoding now.
22:44:37Bagderlinuxstb: hosting fine in your place or should I mirror these?
22:44:58linuxstbI'll check my bandwidth allowance...
22:45:26linuxstbI don't use that server for anything, so I may as well use the bandwidth if it's going to be enough.
22:45:49Bagderfair enough! just tell me otherwise
22:47:28linuxstbI can't find what bandwidth I've got.... It's just the free webspace from my ISP.
22:48:14 Join barrywardell [0] (n=barrywar@
22:48:16linuxstbIn fact, it's probably best if you can host - I've only got 200MB, and by the time I've encoded all resolutions, I may be close to that.
22:48:49linuxstbBTW, here's the license for that movie:
22:49:43linuxstbI'm not sure reading that what you would need to say on the download page...
22:51:54Paul_The_NerdI believe we'd fall under the "Include the credits roll" bit
22:52:11linuxstbDoes that count if it's resized so small you can't read them?
22:52:41miraklinuxstb: I used mplayer mencoder to convert my sample when I tried libmpeg2 in december
22:52:49Bagderits now available like this:
22:53:03mirakisn't it on the patch tracker on sourceforge by the way ?
22:53:25linuxstbBagder: You've excelled yourself with web design again...
22:53:45Bagderyeah, isn't it funny how they all look similar? ;-)
22:54:33linuxstbmirak: Is what on the patch tracker?
22:55:11sharpei've seen that same design somewhere before...
22:55:24miraklinuxstb: a mpeg2 video
22:56:47linuxstbOuch, the 224x176 version came out at 70MB... 866kbps.
22:57:04sharpecan image what the 320x240 one will come out as.
22:58:03 Quit lightyear (Remote closed the connection)
22:58:57 Quit Bger ("nite")
23:00:20linuxstbmpegplayer isn't doing too badly with it though - around 15fps at the moment for the 224x176 file on my ipod Photo.
23:00:58*amiconn wonders why a 124MHz coldfire performs worse than a 75MHz arm
23:01:00linuxstbDropped down to 14.0fps now though.
23:01:14mirakamiconn: memory ?
23:01:32sharpeamiconn: maybe it's just lazy?
23:02:06 Quit bluebrother ("Leaving")
23:02:20linuxstb17 minutes until it's uploaded to my server...
23:03:27 Quit Mikachu ("brb")
23:05:00mirakI am running elephant dream at 17-19 fps
23:05:04mirakon H300
23:05:15linuxstbThe 176x128 version?
23:06:01linuxstbMy 5g is decoding the 224x176 file at around 15fps-16fps... So slightly faster than my Photo.
23:06:31mirakis there a way to stop playback ?
23:06:47linuxstbYes, there are stop and pause buttons.
23:06:57mirakeven on a 1 week old version ?
23:07:07linuxstbPossibly not.
23:07:28mirakI am happy indeed to see a video that smooth on the H300
23:07:31linuxstbThey were added some time last week.
23:07:35mirak19fps that's sweet
23:07:47linuxstbAnd 176x128 isn't too bad either.
23:07:55linuxstbI mean it's just about watchable.
23:08:09miraka 16:9 movie is in that range
23:08:54linuxstbYes, I'm doing a 160x128 file for amiconn now, then I'll try a 224x128
23:09:39 Join Mikachu [0] (
23:10:05XavierGrthe bad thing is that it doesn't have audio yet
23:10:20XavierGrit would be wonderfull news to have 15 fps with audio
23:10:26linuxstbYou want video _and_ sound?
23:10:34XavierGrbut 15 fps without audio will be hard
23:10:34linuxstbNo-one has asked for that - they just ask for video.
23:10:49***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:10:52mirakanyone started to work on assembly ?
23:11:09XavierGrof course I am talking for the optimisation that will be needed, and even then it would be quite hard
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23:12:43 Quit Landus (Nick collision from services.)
23:12:47 Quit LandusMikain (Client Quit)
23:13:16mirakXavierGr: ?
23:13:33amiconnHmpf, sudoku doesn't look very nice on the X5
23:13:35mirakXavierGr: not that hard if you use wav audio
23:13:45 Join Landus [0] (
23:13:46sharpewell, you can have audio and video. just not at the same time.
23:13:59amiconnThis is because it reuses the H1x0 bitmaps, and converts them to 16bit colour
23:14:21 Quit MadDog011 ("Trillian (")
23:14:38amiconnBut the H1x0 bitmapes aren't pure greyscale - the are black-to-lightblue (like the H1x0 screenshot bitmaps)
23:14:53amiconnThe lightblue is different from rockbox lightblue
23:16:11 Quit freqmod (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:18:23 Join colnpanic [0] (
23:19:42linuxstbBagder: Next file is available: (4:3 fullscreen for H300 and ipod Photo)
23:20:01 Join MadDog011 [0] (n=MadDog01@212-200-212-95.adsl.sezampro.yu)
23:20:16BagderI get almost 900KB/s from your host
23:20:31linuxstbWhat a great host...
23:20:57linuxstbIn fact, even their ADSL has been working well for the past few weeks...
23:20:58Bagder65MB in 1m:24s
23:21:50XavierGrI hate you....
23:22:07amiconnThe doom prob on X5 is almost for sure a timer problem
23:22:12XavierGrI must have the slowest internet connection on the whole channel
23:22:22amiconnmetronome also doesn't work the first time it is run after boot
23:22:32amiconnThe second time it does work
23:22:51linuxstbWhat's your impression of the X5?
23:23:51illogic-alIt's a wonderful machine.
23:24:01TeaSeaI like the X5
23:24:02illogic-alI want to have it's babies.
23:24:05TeaSeaExcept the battery is beyond awful.
23:24:06 Join hotwire__ [0] (
23:24:14TeaSeaMy battery's down to about 2h
23:24:18illogic-alTeaSea: are you following me around? :-)
23:24:25amiconnIt seems to be smaller than the H300, but the footprint is actually the same.
23:24:28TeaSeaillogic-al: No *hides*
23:24:30illogic-alTeaSea: ouch. suckage.
23:24:32amiconnIt's a bit thinner though
23:24:46amiconnThe sub-pack thingy is annoying.
23:24:47linuxstbXavierGr: Are you downloading the H300 version of the video from my server?
23:24:48TeaSeaPerhaps if I update rockbox, disable the OTG chip, might extend the life somewhat.
23:24:59TeaSeaStill, I think once I get the money I might replace my X5 with a Samsung Z5.
23:25:03amiconnThe joystick is way easier to operate than the H1x0 one
23:25:10TeaSeaBut I intend to get a lot more usage out of this baby first.
23:25:16BagderTeaSea: you're cursing
23:25:22Bagderthere's no rockbox on the z5
23:25:27Bagderor are you gonna do a port?
23:25:40TeaSeaBagder: Hehe, if I had the technical skills I would.
23:25:56 Quit stoffel ("leaving")
23:26:01TeaSeaBut to be honest.
23:26:09TeaSeaThe current crop of HD players is less than inspiring.
23:26:12amiconn..but I still think the joystick is mounted in the wrong position. It's either for tiny asian hands, or for left-handed operation in europe
23:26:15miraklinuxstb: can I send you a sample ?
23:26:38XavierGrlinuxstb: I am downloading the 176*128 from bagder's page
23:26:41amiconnThe harddisk is really quiet, far more quiet than the one in the irivers
23:26:56linuxstbXavierGr: OK. I just didn't want to delete it if you were downloading.
23:27:05TeaSeaIf you guys in here were to recommend a HD-based player, what would it be?
23:27:06BagderTeaSea: eh, but the Z5 is not a HD one at all?
23:27:07TeaSeaAnd same for flash.
23:27:10TeaSeaBagder: Precisely.
23:27:11mirakamiconn: iriver padle is horrible
23:27:14TeaSeaHD ones are uninspiring.
23:27:18TeaSeaSo i'm switching to flash.
23:27:28linuxstbmirak: A sample of what?
23:27:39amiconnThe X5 has side buttons, which is bad, and the dual-role slide switch doesn't make that any better
23:27:42TeaSeaAll the korean companies, which make the actually DECENT players, are all going flash.
23:27:51illogic-alTeaSea: but it doesn't play ogg.
23:27:55miraklinuxstb: it's a 4 meg sample video 220x176 25fps
23:28:05TeaSeaillogic-al: Does apparently.
23:28:11TeaSeaBecause the asians would rather have small size
23:28:11miraklinuxstb: the one I used to test mpeg2
23:28:31miraklinuxstb: in fact it's 2,1 meg
23:28:34linuxstbmirak: Sure. What do you want me to do with it though?
23:28:53miraklinuxstb: don't know, some benchmarking and make it available to others
23:28:59miraklinuxstb: on fast ftp
23:29:30linuxstbIs it legally redistributable?
23:29:37TeaSeaillogic-al: ... wait you're right.
23:29:44TeaSeaLooks like my mate Alistair's making a mistake then!
23:29:49TeaSeaOkay, back to the drawing board.
23:29:49BagderTeaSea: cowon and iriver are both korean and have hdd players
23:30:03TeaSeaBagder: I'm not getting a PMP.
23:30:03TeaSeaNo way.
23:30:06TeaSeaiRiver H320 = broke on me.
23:30:12Bagdereven samsung has a large amount of hd players
23:30:16TeaSeaiAudio X5 = the battery is godawful.
23:30:21Bagderso what are those companies that "go flash" ?
23:30:40illogic-alTeaSea: i think that's just your model
23:30:42TeaSeaBagder: If you check it out, Cowon, iRiver and Samsung have all been concentrating on flash players.
23:30:57illogic-albefore I lost mine battery life was up around 10 hours
23:31:05TeaSeaillogic-al: LOST it? :o
23:31:09BagderTeaSea: I agree they've moved focus from large drives but they are all still making players with HDs
23:31:12illogic-alheh. twice.
23:31:25illogic-althe first time someone found it and gave it back to me.
23:31:26TeaSeaBagder: The X5 is about a year and a half old with no successor named.
23:31:26sharpeonce you go flash you never... go backsh?
23:31:30markunToshiba also has some HD players
23:31:32illogic-althe next... not so much
23:31:44BagderTeaSea: they still make and sell it
23:31:54TeaSeaBagder: True.
23:31:57Bagderthey don't announce the next until they've given up on the x5
23:31:59TeaSeaAs opposed to iRiver.
23:32:09TeaSeaThe H320 was iRiver's last decent HD player.
23:32:20TeaSeaThe H20 is just an expensive brick.
23:32:24illogic-alTeaSea: cowon's new .65" HD based player is disproving that theory of yours
23:32:31BagderI think we can make H10/H20 decent ;-)
23:32:38TeaSeaillogic-al: Okay yes, but that's again appealing to the flash market in a way.
23:32:39*linuxstb is still upset at leaving his Diamond RIO PMP300 on a bus...
23:32:41miraklinuxstb: don't know, that's really a short sample of Artificial Intelligence. 1 minute I think
23:32:45TeaSeaMaking it smaller, sacrificing memory for size.
23:32:59illogic-alTeaSea: but clearly a move away from flash itself.
23:33:05miraklinuxstb: who would prosecute anyone for that ?
23:33:06TeaSeaThe iAudio 6 is tempting, but expensive.
23:33:09markunlinuxstb: how long ago was that?
23:33:20illogic-alTeaSea: give it till christmas :-)
23:33:23TeaSeaillogic-al: Hehe
23:33:25TeaSeaYeah true.
23:33:29TeaSeaBy then I should be due for a replacement.
23:33:41linuxstbMany years... Probably about 6-12 months after I bought it, which was shortly after they were released.
23:33:53 Quit Arathis ()
23:33:57amiconnillogic-al: (1) It's 0.85" (2) The claim that they're the first offering a 0.85" HD player is a plain lie
23:33:59illogic-alanyway the flash players don't have nearly enough storage space for me. I'm "using" my H320 now and it's got 3 gigs of space left.
23:34:16linuxstbmarkun: Still the good point was that I then discovered the Archos Recorder and Rockbox...
23:35:13illogic-alamiconn: who was first?
23:35:19amiconnThe ipod mini
23:35:53sharpeit's kind of funny how on some of the threads in the forums, once i post something, no one ever posts in the same thread.
23:36:08TeaSeaAlso, i'm not happy with Samsung atm.
23:36:15TeaSeaThey're shifting towards microsoft's ring of influence.
23:36:40TeaSeaThe Samsung YP-U2, which has no real differences in terms of playback features and stuff from the YP-U1, which it replaced, is MTP instead of UMS now.
23:37:16miraklinuxstb: so you don't want it ? :)
23:37:54linuxstbmirak: I wouldn't want to host it publically...
23:38:33illogic-alMTP? UMS? mhh.
23:38:38linuxstbSpeaking of which, next file is here:
23:38:45XavierGrwell the 176*128 version is running from 10.3-13.2fps for me (h300)
23:39:15TeaSeaillogic-al: ?
23:39:36XavierGrhow much should it run? (I mean what is the realtime speed 25fps?)
23:39:40illogic-alTeaSea: don't know what those abbrevs. mean
23:39:43linuxstbXavierGr: Do you use the original firmware's video features?
23:39:45TeaSeaillogic-al: Ah
23:39:50linuxstbXavierGr: It's 24fps - Film rate.
23:39:53TeaSeaUMS = Universal Media Storage
23:39:55illogic-altoo lazy to google
23:40:09TeaSeaBasically it means it's a standard USB interface. You plug & play.
23:40:16 Quit hotwire_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:40:17sharpelike a usb drive.
23:40:21TeaSeaAnd most importantly, it works under systems OTHER than windows.
23:40:29TeaSeaAnd considering I run linux that's a big mission critical feature.
23:40:34Bagderlinuxstb: got it
23:41:12TeaSeaMTP is Media Transfer Protocol, a protocol invented by Microsoft (iirc) with no apparent use than to obfusticate users and to force them to use windows to update their players.
23:41:19TeaSeaIs also the only way of transferring DRM songs onto players.
23:41:39Bagderthe sansa supports both ums and mtp
23:41:52linuxstbBagder: OK. I was right about the space requirements - we're over 180MB already...
23:42:01TeaSeaBagder: Ah yes the Sansa.
23:42:04TeaSeaI've read good things about it.
23:42:04XavierGrlinuxstb: I use OF's video capability, sometimes, it is quite decent for the H300. iRiver did a great work managing to put there 10fps with audio.
23:42:10Bagderlinuxstb: 48GB free here ;-)
23:42:44linuxstbXavierGr: I'm curious how it handles video that it can't decode in realtime.
23:43:06XavierGrlinuxstb: the video encoding that OF accepts is quite strict
23:43:07TeaSeaOh yeah, there's also the iAudio U3.
23:43:16TeaSeaThat's like, the uberflashplayer.
23:43:19TeaSeaBut low memory.
23:43:29XavierGrlinuxstb: it will only let you run a video of specific resolution and encoding.
23:43:48linuxstbXavierGr: So it knows in advance it can't decode it, so doesn't try?
23:43:50XavierGr(or the range is quite limited)
23:44:09XavierGrlinuxstb: yeah, every video that is not within the range is not accepted
23:44:40XavierGrthe acceoted codec is xvid
23:45:22*amiconn wonders why both iriver and cowon chose mpeg4 for their video support
23:45:53XavierGramiconn: what's your preference?
23:46:09linuxstbamiconn: That's a good question. But it sounds like it's a very constrained version of mpeg4.
23:46:37amiconnXavierGr: It's not about preference. mpeg4 is more complex than mpeg1 or mpeg2
23:46:47XavierGrthe other day I tried to play a muted video (within the encoding range) with OF and didn't accept it.
23:47:02XavierGrso it is very very strict
23:47:22amiconnlinuxstb: Btw, why did you zip the test files?
23:47:24preglowamiconn: mpeg4 might look better on a small screen, thanks to the smaller blocks available in motion estimation
23:47:51linuxstbamiconn: I gain a few percent, and I'm just in the habit of hiding all files on my web server in .zip...
23:48:19linuxstbe.g. the m2v for 224x176 is 70754627 bytes, the zip is 68410711
23:48:34TeaSeaillogic-al: Man, information on the Samsung Z5 differs from page to page.
23:48:38amiconnYes, you gain 3%, but increase the time-to-use by the time needed to unzip
23:48:39TeaSeaIt MIGHT play ogg, I just don't know
23:48:58linuxstbamiconn: It's just habit... We could ask Bagder to unzip them.
23:49:03sharpeamiconn: but it's not his time that's used unzipping, so it makes no difference to him?
23:49:36BagderI could unzip them on the server
23:49:58 Quit Hansmaulwurf ("( :: NoNameScript 3.81 :: )")
23:50:13markunTeaSea: do you like the Meizu M6?
23:50:22TeaSeaNever heard of it.
23:50:24TeaSeaOr rather
23:50:24TeaSeaI have
23:50:29TeaSeaBut I can't remember much about it
23:51:43linuxstbOuch again, the 320x240 file is 1528kbps... I should probably adjust my encoder settings.
23:51:46amiconnlinuxstb: ~8.7fps on H340 (the full-res version)
23:52:07XavierGrso is there a ground breaking optimisation plan?
23:52:28XavierGrheh we should port FRAPS on Rockbox! :P
23:52:30amiconn..going down..
23:52:33linuxstbWe need one... Or a second core to be discovered inside the Coldfire.
23:53:04 Join dpassen1 [0] (n=dpassen1@resnet-236-163.resnet.UMBC.EDU)
23:53:04 Part stripwax
23:53:22amiconnNow around 8.0fps
23:53:30XavierGrlinuxstb: or limit the fps of the video as iriver did.
23:53:55 Join rotator [0] (n=e@rockbox/developer/rotator)
23:54:07linuxstbXavierGr: I'm sure that will be needed on most targets.
23:54:19amiconnI don't think we have brought mpeg2 to its full potential. It's playing slower than mpeg4 in OF - and that's without audio
23:55:17linuxstbYes, there's definitely improvement possible. But I'm not expecting all targets to achieve 25fps with audio.
23:55:32linuxstbBut then you never know....
23:55:33S0apwhere could I see a set of instructions for iriver xvid encoding?
23:56:30linuxstbamiconn: 320x240 @ 1528kbps is decoding at around 8.3fps on my 5g.
23:56:49 Join TCK [0] (

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