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#rockbox log for 2006-08-18

00:00:10Davide-NYCI disagree, I'd presume that over 90% of all users record with equal amount of gain
00:00:15peturrasher.dk/rockbox/people/">http://rasher.dk/rockbox/people/
00:00:24BHSPitMonkeypetur, I know...
00:00:27 Join barrywardell [0] (n=barrywar@host-194-46-233-207.dsl-ie.utvinternet.net)
00:01:17*linuxstb thinks rasher's map is confusing when made full-screen and you see two Australias...
00:01:33 Quit Kohlrabi ("Quit")
00:01:46peturDavide-NYC:well all proposals for the WRS are welcome but yours I don't like very much. just my personal taste. sorry
00:01:58*Paul_The_Nerd is all by his lonesome on that map too, sorta.
00:03:14*petur feels sorry for mat, living in the sea in front of Belgium
00:03:20COmputomanHey petur, can i Pm you?
00:03:22Davide-NYCPetur: No offense taken, I'm just trying to get the WRS and the RWRS plus all of the remotes to be syncronized
00:03:27Mikachulinuxstb: haha
00:03:49peturCOmputoman: try it...
00:04:00peturbut I'm off to bed soon
00:04:06Mikachulinuxstb: try the minimum zoom
00:04:07 Join Sinbios [0] (n=Sinbios@HSE-Hamilton-ppp3513671.sympatico.ca)
00:04:11Paul_The_Nerdpetur: I was vary careful with the positioning of my cursor. Someone could very nearly locate where I live with it.
00:04:31*Paul_The_Nerd wonders if that person perhaps lives in an aquatic environment.
00:05:00peturhe was probably on a ferry when he registered :)
00:05:04Mikachuyou can knock on the door with mine
00:05:50*petur discovers he lives in the middle of a river
00:05:53Paul_The_NerdDavide-NYC: It sounds overcomplicated to me, just for the sake of removing one line.
00:05:56Davide-NYCI just added myself to that crazy map thing
00:06:11Paul_The_NerdMikachu: You could, but I'm in an apartment complex so there's about a 1 in 8 chance you'd get the right door.
00:06:16Mikachuheh
00:06:19linuxstbMikachu: Aaaahhh! 5 Australias...
00:06:29Mikachulinuxstb: only the australias bother you? :D
00:06:38 Quit pi ("Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com")
00:06:39Paul_The_NerdActually, a 1 in 2 chance if you're trusting in that I put the pin right where I'm sitting in my living room.
00:06:42Davide-NYCPaul_The_Nerd: But imagine the benefit on the remote!
00:06:51 Join xilef [0] (n=xilef@lak-63-210.wohnheime.ruhr-uni-bochum.de)
00:06:57Mikachuheh, the map uses native names for everything, confusing
00:07:06MikachuMagyarország
00:07:11 Join pi [0] (n=pi@80-41-223-160.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com)
00:07:26 Part pi
00:07:26scorchemeh....i put mine on the same hill i live in...i am the paranoid type sometimes
00:07:34Mikachugood luck finding anything in greece :(
00:08:03Mikachuat least i know the kanji for tokyo
00:08:08Paul_The_NerdDavide-NYC: In what _legal_ cases is the remote screen the only screen you have available while recording?
00:08:40Davide-NYCUh oh. If you're really introducing that line of logic then I'm sunk.
00:08:48Davide-NYCNo wait!
00:09:01Davide-NYCPaul_The_Nerd: If you main unit LCD is broken.
00:09:06 Quit hotwire_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:09:07Paul_The_NerdI'm just saying that the Remote, while nice, shouldn't be a reason to introduce a function that makes non-remote use more complicated.
00:09:10_hotwire_meanwhile some people are googling to figure out what magyarorszag is... I already know
00:09:22Mikachu:)
00:09:24Mikachu<- half hungarian
00:09:26peturPaul_The_Nerd:stealth recording
00:09:33_hotwire_<- little over half hungarian
00:09:39Paul_The_Nerdscorche: I'm secure in knowing that most people looking at that map probably wouldn't ever want to set foot in Texas, let alone cross to the center.
00:09:40Mikachui don't speak hungarian though
00:09:43 Join lukaswayne9 [0] (n=lukas@c-68-84-69-12.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
00:09:54_hotwire_neither do i... well... i can count, curse, and say thank you
00:09:54peturfor small screens it should just scroll
00:10:07Paul_The_Nerdpetur: I agree, scrolling is good.
00:10:13_hotwire_although i have a certain like for tokaji aszu wine...
00:10:33 Join XavierGr [0] (n=xavier@ppp137-203.adsl.forthnet.gr)
00:10:35*petur falls asleep...
00:10:40Davide-NYCgood night
00:10:40 Quit petur ("Zzzzz")
00:11:01*Davide-NYC still thinks it's a god idea.
00:11:09*Davide-NYC *good idea
00:11:09amiconnPaul_The_Nerd: Actually, much scrolling in the recording screen might be bad
00:11:19Davide-NYCyay!
00:11:43scorchePaul_The_Nerd: i just dont like the fact that eventually it will be on google, so that they can type either my handle or my full name and see a map leading right to my house
00:11:43*amiconn remembers the iriver remote ticking problem
00:12:00Davide-NYCamiconn: there is a solution to that problem.
00:12:11 Quit xilef ("leaving")
00:12:14Paul_The_Nerdamiconn: Right, ticking while recording is bad. Forgot about that.
00:12:30amiconnThe ticking can be reduced, but not avoided
00:12:32Davide-NYCMmmm devise a keypress that de-activates the RLCD while recording.
00:12:41Paul_The_NerdThat's been done. ;)
00:12:44Davide-NYCWhich eliminates the ticking. It's in CVS
00:12:58Paul_The_NerdBut the problem is, that doesn't help while you're trying to change settings on a remote.
00:13:35Davide-NYCsure, but in my usage the only reason to mess with settings during recording is in the case of clipping, in which case the recording is borked anyhoo.
00:13:50Davide-NYCDig? :-)
00:14:00Paul_The_NerdWhy not just have a line that says "Gain: L XXdb / R XXdb" and that line acts like three lines (press down onto it, and you select both, press down again, you select L, press down again R, press down a final time, on to the next?)
00:14:31Paul_The_NerdInstead of doing a splitting thing when you want to set individual ones?
00:14:31Davide-NYCHmm, that's not a bad idea, how would you indicate what is selected?
00:14:43Paul_The_NerdCapitalize and lowercase the L and R
00:14:53Paul_The_NerdL R = both, L r = Left, l R = right
00:14:57Davide-NYCIMO not obvious enough to the new user
00:15:10Davide-NYCBut I'd be very happy with that
00:15:14Paul_The_Nerd(L) R, L (R), and (L) (R) ?
00:15:34amiconnPaul_The_Nerd: That line is too long
00:15:48amiconn..at least on archos and on iriver remote
00:15:58A_Mbluebrother: You there? Can you check on target whether the 1px left margin is always there or just when the scrollbar is visible?
00:16:01Paul_The_Nerdamiconn: Show the word "Gain:" and then when the line is highlighted swap it for the values?
00:16:04Davide-NYCAlso, I think SELECT should be what changes the selected state, not UP/DOWN
00:16:25Paul_The_NerdDavide-NYC: I'm fine with different button mappings. I'm just trying to come up with alternate ideas in general. :)
00:16:33Davide-NYCyup, I'm with you
00:16:38bluebrotherA_M, it's always there.
00:16:43Davide-NYCI really like your idea
00:16:56Davide-NYCIt accomplishes the same thing (screen real estate) and is more elegant
00:17:23Davide-NYCwhat chars are used to indicate what is selected is easy to change
00:17:29bluebrotherwhen the scrollbar is visible there is also an additional 1px between the scrollbar and the selector (which should be there)
00:17:29Davide-NYC:-)
00:17:30 Join hotwire_ [0] (n=christop@toronto-HSE-ppp4321977.sympatico.ca)
00:17:38 Part barrywardell
00:18:01A_Mbluebrother: hmm... why can't I see it in the simulator? :-/
00:18:07LinusNDavide-NYC, Paul_The_Nerd: just keep in mind that the strings will be translated
00:18:27Davide-NYCHow long does the word Gain get?
00:18:30Mikachui like how all windows programs are hardcoded to a specific font and size
00:18:32Davide-NYC:-P
00:18:38Paul_The_NerdLinusN: Well, in the case of capitalizing the L and R, there is indeed a danger of languages that have left and right start with the same letter.
00:18:38MikachuDavide-NYC: Förstärkning in swedish
00:18:48LinusNand that Left and Right might not be abbreviated with a single letter in all languages
00:18:58Paul_The_NerdWe have < and > though
00:19:05Davide-NYC(yay)
00:19:09Paul_The_NerdWe could have <, > and _ for unselected.
00:19:19Mikachu>_<
00:19:22Mikachusorry :)
00:19:24Paul_The_NerdHehehe
00:19:27bluebrotherA_M, hmm, maybe it's related to the font?
00:19:31Davide-NYCor [<] [>] and [-]
00:19:44Paul_The_NerdAnd then you just have to worry about the size of the word "Gain" in other languages.
00:19:59LinusNsounds fair
00:20:01Davide-NYCno wait, that's not true
00:20:13Mikachudoes < mean left or right?
00:20:17Paul_The_NerdLeft
00:20:28pixelmaMikachu: förstärkning is already a bit too long on Archos screens (dB) is cut off then
00:20:30Paul_The_NerdIt'll be on the left side, and pointing left, so hopefully that will be enough
00:20:32Mikachui know it looks like an arrow to the left, but it also looks like a speaker to the right
00:20:49Davide-NYCWe also have to display the values
00:21:00LinusNone could always try using some kind of icons
00:21:00Paul_The_NerdYou'll have [<] -20.4db | [>] 36.4db
00:21:08Paul_The_NerdIcons could work.
00:21:16Paul_The_NerdActual arrows.
00:21:35 Quit mkey (Connection timed out)
00:21:38Mikachuor you could just show L and R anyway
00:21:54Mikachuaren't headphones all over the world labeled L and R?
00:21:59Davide-NYC[<] -20.4db | [>] 36.4db, < -20.4db | [>] 36.4db and [<] -20.4db | > 36.4db
00:22:05Mikachui've never seen V and H in sweden...
00:22:16Davide-NYCthe mighty VH never toured in sweden
00:22:20Davide-NYC(sorry)
00:22:48Davide-NYCI'm getting confused with all of the brackets etc.
00:22:56bluebrotherA_M, I have the effect with the nedore fonts but not nimbus.
00:23:08Paul_The_NerdDavide-NYC: That looks good to me, at least. That was "Both" "Right" and "Left" correct?
00:23:14Davide-NYCPaul_The_Nerd: would you be willing to write up your idea and post it to the forum as I did.
00:23:34Paul_The_NerdDavide-NYC: Where's your post again?
00:23:51*Paul_The_Nerd can never remember what forums posts are hiding in, or under what names
00:23:52Davide-NYCThe line with all of the gobbledyguk was all three possibilities iterated sequencially
00:24:02Davide-NYChttp://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=5882.0
00:24:03A_Mbluebrother: Yeah, I've tried some different fonts as well and it appears some fonts have the margin, others don't. Kind of a PITA... :-S
00:24:12 Quit ender` (" Pets are better than kids because: 11. If they get pregnant, you can sell their children.")
00:24:27LinusNgotta go to bed
00:24:28Davide-NYCpetur just made a strange noise and left me to query him in IRC>
00:24:33LinusNcu around folx
00:24:39Davide-NYC'night
00:24:40 Part LinusN
00:24:54bluebrotherso I guess there is the option blaming the affected fonts and live with it or simply add an additional 1px line on the right (no idea how hard this would be)
00:25:16 Nick excitatory_ is now known as excitatory (n=excitato@CPE-70-94-13-227.wi.res.rr.com)
00:25:36bluebrotheranyway, on larger displays I think the menu becomes way better with the multi-line settings.
00:27:40*Paul_The_Nerd definitely likes that two-line entry menu patch thingy
00:27:52 Join mkey [0] (n=mkey@pD9E3532A.dip.t-dialin.net)
00:28:01 Join mirak [0] (n=mirak@AAubervilliers-152-1-38-164.w83-114.abo.wanadoo.fr)
00:28:03*A_M is happy it's appreciated
00:28:46mirakbonsoir
00:28:51A_MAdding the extra 1px to the right shouldn't be hard at all, but then there'd sometimes be a two pixel margin there. I really don't know what I'd prefer, and I seriously doubt I could code it to check whether the margin is inherit within the font or not.
00:30:32Paul_The_NerdI think 1 or 2 looks better than 0 or 1
00:30:41Paul_The_NerdMentally, at least. I'm just imagining it.
00:30:52 Quit tommeyer ("Never put off till tomorrow, what you can do the day after tomorrow")
00:30:58Paul_The_NerdIt's just that when the text touches the edge of the screen, it gives the impression of it already being off the screen
00:31:34 Join hotwire__ [0] (n=christop@toronto-HSE-ppp4321977.sympatico.ca)
00:31:34bluebrotherI tried unifont, and as it's pretty big (at least on h100) the 1px that font has looks a bit ... tiny, so 2px won't hurt.
00:31:34 Quit mirak (Remote closed the connection)
00:31:51 Quit matsl (Remote closed the connection)
00:31:55Davide-NYCPaul_The_Nerd: Better = Gain: [<] -20.4db | 36.4db [>]
00:32:22Davide-NYCpoutting the 'arrow' char all the way on the outside of the line.
00:32:26Davide-NYC*putting
00:32:36A_Maesthetically I agree with you guys, but as a coder it feels sorta ... ugly ... to just add an extra pixel there. it feels so damn... ad hoc. ...
00:32:47 Quit _hotwire_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:32:52*A_M cringes
00:33:24 Join mirak [0] (n=mirak@AAubervilliers-152-1-38-164.w83-114.abo.wanadoo.fr)
00:33:48Paul_The_NerdA_M: It only feels bad because the fonts are inconsistent
00:35:14Paul_The_NerdDavide-NYC: I agree that does look a little better.
00:35:26 Quit lukaswayne9 ("Ex-Chat")
00:35:31pixelmaPaul_The_Nerd: Davide-NYC: these lines are too long for Archos screens... for example as it is the WRS shows "Gain: 30.0 dB" - this already needs two thirds of the screen width (and in almost all other languages the word for "Gain" is longer)
00:35:38Davide-NYChttp://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=5882.msg45584#msg45584
00:35:56A_Mhehe, anyone familiar enough with font code to create a function that checks for empty pixel columns to the right of characters?
00:36:23Davide-NYCWhat is the shortest line length?
00:37:19pixelmado you mean how many chars would fit?
00:37:26Davide-NYCyes
00:37:34Paul_The_NerdWould it be theoretically possible to just scroll the line to the right, when highlighted?
00:37:35Davide-NYCusing system font (of course)
00:38:16Davide-NYC"Gain: [<] -20.4db | 36.4db [>]" <−− That doesn;t fit? Really?
00:38:19pixelmaI think it's 18
00:38:27Paul_The_NerdSo you get "Gain: [<] 37.2 | 26.4 " minus wherever it's cut off, and when highlighted you'd have something like "n: [< 37.2
00:38:30Paul_The_Nerderrr
00:38:31A_MPaul_The_Nerd: yeah, I'd like that aswell. but I'm not familiar with the scrolling code at all
00:38:47Paul_The_Nerd"n: [<] 37.2 | 26.4 [>]"
00:39:19Paul_The_NerdAs long as the numbers will fit on the screen on every target, that solution would work.
00:39:40Davide-NYCHaha −−> [<]-20.4|36.4[>] is 17 chars
00:39:48Paul_The_NerdAnd one more - sign
00:39:52Paul_The_NerdSo, 18 even
00:39:55Davide-NYChaha
00:39:57Davide-NYCright
00:40:02Davide-NYC[<]-20.4|-36.4[>]
00:40:04A_MPaul_The_Nerd: the scrolling code seems scattered about several different lcd*.c files, different implementations for differend targets.
00:40:28pixelmaok
00:41:03Davide-NYCCan it be conditional? Dependig on target?
00:41:08Davide-NYC*depending
00:41:48bluebrotherA_M, got to go now. I'm offline this weekend but I'll try the next versions again when back ;-)
00:42:07Paul_The_NerdIn that case, the [ and ] characters should be replaced with spaces when unhlighted on charcells screens, so the text doesn't move around.
00:42:36Paul_The_NerdOr un-selected, rather. So when just left gain is chosen, the right one is space, bracket, space
00:42:47Paul_The_NerdOr space, less than, space, rather
00:42:58Davide-NYCAbsolutley
00:43:16*amiconn wonders why no one suggested actual icons for [<] and [>] yet
00:43:24linuxstbPaul_The_Nerd: The only charcells screen we have is the player - no recording screen.
00:43:28amiconnThey're smaller than wasting three characters...
00:43:47 Quit hotwire_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:43:52*Davide-NYC Presumed this would be easier to code.
00:43:54 Quit bluebrother ("Leaving")
00:44:09Paul_The_Nerdamiconn: Icons are fine by me. I think LinusN suggested them earlier, and I said I'd be fine with that.
00:44:15amiconnThe quickscreen uses icons, the pitchscreen uses icons...
00:44:45Paul_The_Nerdlinuxstb: 1) It's bad to make the assumption that there will never again be a charcell target. 2) It'll look good with fixed width fonts too that way.
00:44:57Paul_The_Nerdlinuxstb: But yeah, I forgot that the Player was just that... a player.
00:45:06 Join lodesi [0] (n=lds@d02m-89-83-203-123.d4.club-internet.fr)
00:45:31amiconnThe player also has icons (as special chars)
00:46:07amiconnCheck how the player vkeyboard looks (in the sim)
00:46:46linuxstbIs the intention to keep using the system font in the recording screen?
00:47:53amiconnno
00:48:06Davide-NYCI think hte intention is to have other fonts as optional.
00:48:17amiconnAll places should adapt to the ui font
00:48:27Davide-NYCideally.
00:48:43amiconn(except debugging screen and stuff)
00:48:50 Join timemob [0] (n=timemob@pp009362.brew.ne.jp)
00:49:19timemoblol guys what the heck is this
00:49:35amiconnDavide-NYC: It's pretty much a requirement. The sysfont is iso8859-1 only, so languages with non-latin scripts are only half-translations right now
00:49:49Davide-NYCunderstood
00:49:49scorchetimemob: www.rockbox.org
00:49:59timemobwhen in 1track repeat mode pressing next track repeats same one!
00:50:00Mikachui almost thought that said timecop
00:50:44amiconntimemob: Of course. Repeat one is, ahm, repeat one
00:50:58Mikachustill, i would expect pressing next to skip track and start repeating1 on that track
00:51:02amiconnYou cannot skip out of that track because of the way repeat one works
00:51:09timemobim in my car trying to use rockbox
00:51:17Mikachudon't irc and drive
00:51:22Davide-NYCword
00:51:23timemobplz fix
00:51:51Paul_The_Nerdtimemob: Saying "plz fix" is pretty much the worst way to get something changed, especially if someone tells you that it's working as intended at the moment.
00:52:13Paul_The_NerdIt helps to talk to people as if they were actually human beings, by using whole words and reading what they say to you in response.
00:52:27Davide-NYCguys, my intent is to try to unify the way RB works across the H1xx, the H3xx and all three available remotes for those units.
00:52:29timemobevery player i ever seen can skip tracks in 1repeat
00:53:14Davide-NYCI intend to pickup an iRiver h320 with 'non-lcd' remote so that I can test all possible combos.
00:53:17timemoblol "as intended"
00:53:29Paul_The_Nerdtimemob: Why is that funny?
00:53:41timemobdude
00:53:57Paul_The_NerdJust because it's not what *you* expect doesn't mean it isn't how the person who wrote it intended it to work.
00:54:08timemobNO OTHER PLAYER does it
00:54:23Paul_The_NerdNo need to type in all caps. I can read lowercase letters just fine.
00:54:46Paul_The_NerdNo other players support SID, but we do and people aren't complaining about it.
00:54:46timemobmhm
00:54:55Davide-NYCQuestion: is there a document (maybe on the wiki) that describes all of the boundary conditions for all of the Rockbox capable targets?
00:54:58scorcheand if every other player was not able to play mp3s, if we did, it would be wrong?
00:55:05timemobwow.
00:55:05 Quit mkey (""Welcome to IRC; Where men are men, women are men and little girls are FBI agents!"")
00:55:07Davide-NYCespecially in terms of display properties.
00:55:34linuxstbtimemob: You're not the first to mention that behaviour. Search the feature requests and you'll find it there. But it needs somebody to do some work to fix it - that could be you.
00:55:39Paul_The_Nerdtimemob: All I'm saying is that if you want something changed, it's a good idea to be polite, and think of constructive reasons why changing it is good, such as things that cannot be done the current way, rather than using the fact that other players do it as an argument.
00:55:42 Join mkey [0] (n=mkey@pD9E3532A.dip.t-dialin.net)
00:55:44timemobyou dont see the diff between a misfeature and feature?
00:55:57*Davide-NYC hopes his question isn't missed due to current opinion banter
00:56:14Paul_The_Nerdtimemob: "Diff" is not a word.
00:56:17*amiconn points Davide-NYC towards http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/DeviceChart
00:56:26timemobnot being able to skip tracks in 1repeat is a bug
00:56:40 Quit lodesi_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:56:46Paul_The_Nerdtimemob: It is not a bug simply because you don't like it. It's a bug if it's working differently than the code is expected to work.
00:56:50Davide-NYCamiconn: thank you very much
00:56:57Paul_The_NerdThe person who decides how the code is expected to work is the person who wrote it.
00:57:33Paul_The_NerdA feature you don't like and think should change results in a "feature request" and for this one, one may already exist. There is an appropriate section of the website for such things to be checked.
00:57:41amiconnActually rockbox' two playback engines (hwcodec for archos and swcodec for the newer targets) behave the same wrt "repeat 1"
00:57:51Davide-NYCOne last question then I have to go eat dinner with the wife. Will ROckbox ever drop support of reall old targets?
00:57:57timemobi dont even know why i bother. youre so fucking full of it
00:58:00 Quit timemob (Remote closed the connection)
00:58:14*scorche coughs
00:58:24*Davide-NYC scratches him head
00:58:35Davide-NYCGotta go/.
00:58:37Davide-NYClater.
00:58:42amiconnDavide-NYC: As long as there are devs and some users, why should we drop them?
00:58:51Davide-NYCLCD size constraints?
00:59:01Davide-NYCYou shouldn;t
00:59:03amiconn???
00:59:14Paul_The_NerdI don't think it'll ever be actually _necessary_ to drop support.
00:59:22amiconnRockbox should even work fine on targets with _no_ lcd
00:59:28Davide-NYCtrue
00:59:34Davide-NYCthis is the best project ever.
00:59:36amiconn(although we don't have such target right now)
00:59:38Davide-NYCI gotta go
00:59:43Davide-NYCthanks again.
00:59:48 Quit Davide-NYC ("Chatzilla 0.9.75 [Firefox 1.5.0.6/2006072814]")
01:00
01:00:58Mikachuwow i wonder if all japanese behave that way (dongs and timemob, if they are not the same person) :)
01:02:12 Join _hotwire_ [0] (n=christop@toronto-HSE-ppp4321977.sympatico.ca)
01:02:53amiconnHmm, I wonder whether there'll be a target with oled display soon
01:03:50Paul_The_NerdMikachu: I would think it was the same person, but then, dongs is more well spoken, even if they acted similar
01:04:34Mikachuyeah, and this one sounded surprised at misfeatures but dongs should be accustomed to them by now :)
01:05:04 Join fatherfork [0] (n=fatherfo@adsl-224-18-195.asm.bellsouth.net)
01:06:30 Join TCK [0] (n=tckocr@bb-87-80-197-109.ukonline.co.uk)
01:07:10Paul_The_NerdMikachu: Not to mention I've told dongs the exact same thing I told this guy regarding the concept of "Working as intended"
01:07:46Mikachui think in this case, it would still be desirable if next/prev actually skipped, but isn't possible with the current code
01:08:56Paul_The_NerdI never said it was a bad idea, if you'll read my statements carefully.
01:09:13Mikachutoo lazy :)
01:10:59Paul_The_NerdMy points were basically that he wasn't offering it up as a feature request, wasn't actually saying what the benefits of his method over the existing one were, and wasn't acting like the people here were human beings.
01:11:27excitatoryjust out of curiosity, what bit rate do you guys generally encode in? and also, what format?
01:11:46Paul_The_NerdDepends entirely on the storage I have available.
01:12:06 Quit mkey (""Welcome to IRC; Where men are men, women are men and little girls are FBI agents!"")
01:12:10GaloisI use 48 or 64 kbit ogg
01:12:26***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:12:28excitatoryyikes.. that would be horrible
01:12:34Galoisit's not that bad!!
01:13:07Mikachui use 100kbit ogg, just because <100 feels fundamentally wrong, i know it's really okay :)
01:13:14Galoisin the old days people used walkmans with ungainly cassette tapes and put up with far worse
01:13:20excitatoryheh, i was debating if i should delete my collection of 192 oggs (q6) and go for 256 (q8)
01:13:31Paul_The_NerdNah.
01:13:44Galoisogg is better than anything else at the low bitrates. Anyway I only do it because space is tight on the nano
01:13:49Paul_The_NerdAbout ~160, it's almost definitely not worth the extra space unless you're definitely hearing an annoying difference.
01:14:05Paul_The_Nerd"Above ~160" rather
01:14:22GaloisI assume (hope) you use aotuv ogg, right? Not the relatively crappy standard ogg encoder
01:14:39excitatoryidk, i've been researching it all day, and things get pretty hairy below 256..
01:14:54MikachuGalois: i use aotuvb4.51_patch-libvorbis1.1.1.tar.gz.tgz, is that about the latest?
01:15:02Paul_The_Nerdexcitatory: Can you hear a difference in a double blind test?
01:15:20 Quit hotwire__ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:15:25Galois2005-2006 Public group test of Lame MP3, Vorbis AoTuV, iTunes AAC, Nero AAC, and WMA Pro at ~135 kbit/s nominal. Results suggest that further group testing at this bitrate is unnecessary because all codecs are statistically tied near transparency.
01:15:39excitatoryPaul_The_Nerd: i've only done blind tests between mp3 and ogg.. ogg was the clear winner every time.
01:15:41 Quit A_M ("CGI:IRC")
01:15:46Galoisbut, that only holds true if you use the latest and greatest encoders
01:16:03MikachuGalois: *jumps up and down*
01:16:13excitatoryGalois: i've read that one.. if you read the details.. ogg comes out slightly on top in every example.
01:16:22amiconnGalois: MP3 transparent at ~135kbps? What music is that??
01:16:30Paul_The_Nerdexcitatory: Try doing a few double blinds between whatever quality settings your at (and I really hope you're not encoding CBR at those bitrates) and if you don't hear a clear difference, why bother?
01:16:40pixelmaPaul_The_Nerd: the OndioFM has recording capabilities too and has the same screen size as the Jukebox Recorder ;)
01:16:42Galoisamiconn: it's on Wikipedia, it must be true
01:17:10amiconnDepending on the music I can hear encoding artefacts in mp3 on some 192kbps tracks...
01:17:10xorAxAxfuzz
01:17:20xorAxAxamiconn: irrelevant
01:17:29xorAxAxamiconn: the bitrate doesnt mean anything
01:17:35xorAxAxthe encoder matters :)
01:17:38amiconnI know
01:17:44amiconnI am talking about lame here
01:17:57Paul_The_Nerdpixelma: I was aware of that. I only named the JBR because it's screen size is shared on the Ondio FM, and I think iPod Mini (though I don't believe those can record)
01:17:58xorAxAxand full stereo 192 kbit can have severe artefacts
01:18:04Mikachushould i install 3.97 beta2 over 3.96.1?
01:18:08excitatoryfor me, mp3 sounds like crap below 192.. even 160 i can really hear the difference. i was playing this album i downloaded a few months ago.. all if it was assumed to be 192.. but then this one song came on.. i wasn't even paying attention, just doing the dishes, and i immediately heard it..it was odd.. so i checked it, and sure enough, that one track was 160.
01:18:15xorAxAxMikachu: what is your target profile?
01:18:21Galoismp3 scored 4.60 with some error bar that overlapped with the vorbis error bar
01:18:25xorAxAxMikachu: i.e. which bitrate?
01:18:27Mikachuabr 160 kbps or so
01:18:35Paul_The_Nerdexcitatory: Songs you did not encode yourself NEVER count.
01:18:36xorAxAx3.97 is better at vbr generally
01:18:44xorAxAxMikachu: hmm
01:18:49Paul_The_Nerdexcitatory: How do you know it wasn't ever at 64, then reencoded to 160 by someone stupid?
01:18:57MikachuxorAxAx: i mostly encode to ogg now tohugh
01:18:58amiconnlame is imho the best mp3 encoder, and on difficult to encode tracks, lame −−preset standard sometimes produces >240kbps files
01:19:09amiconnThere must be a reason why it does that
01:19:27pixelmaPaul_The_Nerd: Minis have a slightly bigger screen (138x110 px) and can't record
01:19:27dongsallrighty then. http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/5836
01:19:35xorAxAxamiconn: sounds like a bug
01:19:46Paul_The_Nerdpixelma: I thought they were 110x64...
01:19:51*Paul_The_Nerd wonders what he's thinking of.
01:19:52MikachuPaul_The_Nerd: hooray, my hunch was correct
01:20:04xorAxAxeven lame is sometimes easily ABX'able on −−preset insane
01:20:20xorAxAxby normal people and cheap equipment. but thats mostly bugs
01:20:37Paul_The_Nerddongs: You know, the simplest method would to be to actually explain *why* you want the feature, instead of trying to simply call the current way stupid.
01:21:11Mikachudongs: the way this works is everyone is already spending as much time as they can/want on parts of rockbox they care about
01:21:46Mikachuyou could get lucky and someone cares about your problem... or you don't
01:22:17Paul_The_Nerddongs: It's also been explained to you rather clearly that changes from things that are working how they're expected to work by the person who wrote them are feature requests, no matter how stupid you think the current implementation is.
01:22:28dongsMikachu: these are major usability problems im bringing up. this isnt some shit like porting doom or some other crap. normal users dont use doom. but I can guarantee you there was at least a few pissed off rockbox users per day who tried to use this feature.
01:22:54Mikachuyou should also know open source devels in general don't care if their users "get pissed"
01:22:56Paul_The_Nerddongs: The vast majority of porting Doom wasn't done by a core developer, so Doom is completely irrelevant.
01:22:57 Quit mirak (Connection timed out)
01:23:06Mikachui'm obviously only speaking for myself here
01:23:08Paul_The_NerdIt was done by someone who wanted Doom.
01:23:19xorAxAxMikachu: i think its a little bit more difficult than that
01:23:28amiconndongs: "Repeat 1" in rockbox has worked like this for years, and afaik nobody complained before
01:23:28xorAxAxs/difficult/complex/
01:23:38Paul_The_Nerddongs: Clearly, if someone wants this "major usability concern" that you're the second person ever to complain about to be resolved, it'll get fixed sooner. Otherwise it'll get fixed when someone gets to it.
01:24:15xorAxAxMikachu: e.g. i dislike it if other core devs in projects i am in piss off users
01:24:16amiconnI'm not saying that the behaviour couldn't be improved, but then I don't see the major usability impact either
01:24:26xorAxAxMikachu: by e.g. comitting completly b0rked code
01:24:40Mikachudongs: i'm not saying you shouldn't report problems of course
01:25:00MikachuxorAxAx: cvs isn't for end users imo
01:25:09Mikachuand there is -D yesterday
01:25:16dongsamiconn: okay. i'm in my car, trying to drive, with rockbox playing some shit in 1track repeat. im tired of listening to same shit over and over, so i hit next track to move to next song. guess what happens? same shit repeats over and over. so now i have to focus my attention on this piece of shit software, and try to think of a way to go to next track, or disable 1 track repeat, or something else ot make it usable.
01:25:29dongsamiconn: result: my time is wasted because of a broken functionality.
01:25:39xorAxAxMikachu: i am talking about releases
01:25:48xorAxAxMikachu: i dont mind intermediary breakage
01:25:58MikachuxorAxAx: right, okay. you said "commit"
01:26:15xorAxAxMikachu: i mind a missing sense for quality
01:26:21coobdongs: how about not putting it in one track repeat in the first place
01:26:21dongsamiconn: its kind of like gnome/luinix, one day they decided by some idiotic vote that OK/Cancel buttons should be swapped. All this created was endless user confusion.
01:26:27coob(non) problem solved
01:26:50*Mikachu stabs the "hig"
01:27:07dongscoob: i put it in 1track repeat for a reason
01:27:41coobsounds like you've got a bug up your arse for nothing
01:27:45coobit's expected behaviour
01:27:51Paul_The_Nerddongs: So, why the hell didn't you put the usage situation in the feature request, as opposed to some silly IRC pasting?
01:27:56coobno other media player on any other platform behaves differently
01:28:12coobif you want to alter the behaviour, alter it yourself, the source is there for you to do it
01:28:14Paul_The_Nerdcoob: Actually, many go to the next track on next track, even in 1-repeat. Though I've also used some that don't.
01:28:17dongsits not a feature request.
01:28:19dongsits a bug.
01:28:22amiconnHmm, actually I never used 1-track repeat except for testing
01:28:24Paul_The_Nerdcoob: But really, never ever say "do it yourself" to dongs.
01:28:32coobno, its a change of behaviour request
01:28:34Paul_The_Nerddongs: The definition of bug in this context has been explained to you before
01:28:36dongsevery other person i talked to so far has agreed that next track would be the most logical choice.
01:28:39coobchange it yourself if you care about it
01:28:43xorAxAxinsane people need "1-track repeat"
01:28:43Paul_The_Nerddongs: YOU do not get to redefine what this project considers a bug.
01:28:47coobobviously enough other people don't care about it
01:28:48scorchePaul_The_Nerd: wait...so dongs = timecob?
01:28:49dongsPaul_The_Nerd: stop wasting time on something you obviously dont understand
01:28:59Paul_The_Nerddongs: What don't I understand?
01:29:01Mikachuscorche: dongs = timemob = timecop
01:29:03amiconndongs: It can't be a bug because the code works as intended, and it works like that for over 4 years, and for more than one year in 2 completely different playback engines
01:29:12scorcheMikachu: yeah...i noticed...
01:29:22scorchefigures...
01:29:38coobdongs: what;s to stop you from changing the source yourself and submitting a patch?
01:29:41amiconnAgain: I'm not saying there is no room for improvement, it's just that there is no bug
01:29:52Paul_The_Nerdcoob: He can't be bothered. He likes to complain, he's not constructive in any way.
01:29:54coobi'm going to go ahead annd suggest a lack of skill.
01:29:59excitatorydongs: really dude, you come off as trolling.
01:30:20dongsexcitatory: yes, pointing out usability bugs in open-source projects usually gets marked as trolling, because these people dont know any better.
01:30:22amiconnBut I have a somewhat helpful question: Does choosing another track from the playlist viewer work in repeat-1 mode?
01:30:30dongsexcitatory: i can give you a dozen examples of such.
01:30:44Paul_The_Nerddongs: It's your method, not what you're doing, that comes off as trolling
01:30:47Paul_The_NerdAs you surely know.
01:30:49dongsmostly because the 'programmers' are overprotective of their shitty code: I WROTE IT FUCKER< FOR FREE, AND I AINT FIXING IT is a typical response.
01:31:00Paul_The_NerdNobody has said that fixing it is a bad idea.
01:31:01*pixelma remembers a discussion about bug report vs. feature request with dongs right yesterday...
01:31:01excitatorydongs: but..it's not a "bug
01:31:13Paul_The_NerdAll that has been said, is that it's not a bug the way it works now.
01:31:14scorcheis it time yet for us to kick dongs out of here?
01:31:21Paul_The_NerdClearly if you would actually LISTEN to what people said to you, it would help.
01:31:27amiconnIf so, changing the behaviour shouldn't be that difficult
01:31:51Paul_The_Nerdamiconn: I'm fairly certain changing tracks via playlists does work.
01:32:00excitatorydongs: it's a feature, or behavior request.. something like what you're talking about is a matter of opinion. i'm not aware of any objective human interface guidelines..
01:32:01*Paul_The_Nerd goes to check
01:32:54Paul_The_Nerdamiconn: Yes, switching tracks from the current playlist view works fine in 1-repeat
01:33:40excitatorydongs: perhaps the problem here is that we're all playing semantics..
01:34:12Galoisoh my god this is such a trivial patch
01:34:14amiconnSo iirc what the wps would have to do in repeat-1 mode is switching to next-in-playlist instead of just telling the engine to skip
01:34:26Paul_The_Nerdexcitatory: The problem is that he can't be bothered to simply write a feature request that says "I feel it would be beneficial if 1-repeat mode allowed you to skip to the next track with the appropriate button, because this seems to make more sense and allows track changing without looking at the screen at no cost to existing functionality"
01:34:36Galois case REPEAT_ONE:
01:34:51Galoismove that down a few lines, above case REPEAT_ALL:
01:35:20Galoisor, wait, should it be up a few lines, before case REPEAT_OFF: ? because one could argue that either way would be a "bug" by dongs' standards
01:35:43MikachuGalois: would that still stop playback from advancing?
01:35:57amiconnThat would always be a rebuffering skip, since the engine buffers the same track in a "ring" in repeat one mode, but imho that's acceptable
01:36:05*Paul_The_Nerd agrees
01:36:27Paul_The_NerdGalois: To dongs, a bug is anything that he feels should behave differently, even in cases where some people actually think his way is worse.
01:36:39Mikachuin winamp/xmms, repeat one is not the same setting as global repeat
01:36:48Mikachuso you can have repeat on/off + no advance playlist
01:36:51*ToyKeeper discovers that "all:" is matched not just at the beginning of a line :)
01:36:58GaloisI honestly don't see any way around the rebuffering problem unless you want to be like karma and aggressively buffer everything just in case
01:37:31Galoisanyway the relevant function is get_next_index in playlist.c
01:37:48MikachuGalois: have you tried it already?
01:38:02Mikachui would not assume anything about play(list|back).c
01:38:38Galoisno, I'm just winging it
01:38:42Mikachuhaha :)
01:39:04Mikachui only have doom and pacbox left
01:39:07ToyKeeperWould I get shot in the head if I suggested a "true random" mode? (for example, randomly choose the next song from the first half of the playlist, then requeue it at the end after playing... provides a true random without the chance of repeating a song twice in a row)
01:39:48Paul_The_NerdHow is that different from shuffling the playlist?
01:39:57Mikachuyou can unshuffle it
01:40:14Paul_The_NerdYou can unshuffle a playlist too.
01:40:29Mikachudepends on if it was sorted by key or by hand, but sure you can just save it first
01:40:36Mikachuhowever, you asked what the difference was :)
01:40:46Paul_The_NerdWell, I really meant, how is that more "true" random?
01:41:25ToyKeeperIt has different properties... the order is continuously shuffling, so it doesn't necessarily play each song once and only once.
01:41:58Mikachutrue random could play the same song 500 times in a row
01:42:01Mikachuanything else is pseudo random
01:42:29ToyKeeperYeah... pseudo random is fine with me. It's annoying to hear the same thing 5 times in an hour.
01:43:17GaloisI think what you want is called "random without replacement"
01:43:41MikachuGalois: well, that didn't work :)
01:43:47Galoisoh well
01:44:16ToyKeeperWhat I'm really interested in is adding song ratings and automatic song selection based on the ratings.
01:44:43Paul_The_NerdI mean, with that method, the odds of you hearing any given song a second time within a period depends on how long the second half of the playlist takes to consume.
01:44:54dongslol, rating songs. what will you want next? social networking and blogging right off the ipod?
01:45:01ToyKeeper:)
01:45:08Mikachuoh god, would someone please get rid of him?
01:45:12Paul_The_Nerddongs: I'm sorry, but doesn't your beloved retail iPod firmware already allow song ratings?
01:45:28dongsthats one of the reasons I dont use the retail iPod firmware.
01:45:40ToyKeeperEr, never actually used an ipod.
01:46:09Paul_The_NerdYou could just not use the feature.
01:46:16ToyKeeperI'm just hoping to have it play better songs more often, and worse songs less often.
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01:46:36dongsToyKeeper: i have this great way of getting rid of 'worse songs'
01:46:37Mikachuor, you just have good songs
01:46:39[HO]voltPaul_The_Nerd: My iAudio came in today.
01:46:41dongsToyKeeper: i jsut delete them
01:46:46dongsyou can try it too
01:47:05ToyKeeperdongs: Mikachu: tried both, and didn't like it as much as a real rating system.
01:47:20[HO]volti have an iAudio x5 and I'm having problems "setting foreground color"
01:47:27Mikachuthe problem with playing good songs more often is that then they become less good
01:47:34dongsah, so. well , feel free to submit a 'feature request' since that would be a feature request, as opposed to a bug, like things like 1-track repeat problem.
01:47:44*amiconn also wonders what the actual use of ratings and playback statistics is
01:47:47dongsToyKeeper: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/ < start here.
01:47:57Galoisactually, Mikachu, I just tested it, and it does work
01:48:07ToyKeeperCurrently, my music sync script deletes any songs with a rating < 40%, and makes static playlists for songs with ratings >=51%, 70%, and 80%... it's better than nothing. :)
01:48:13Galoisnever mind, there's a flaw
01:48:15MikachuGalois: i've been listening to 4 songs now in 1-repeat
01:48:24Mikachuwithout touching the controls
01:48:30Paul_The_Nerddongs: Define for me what you mean when you use the word "bug" since we seem to have different definitions.
01:48:43Galoisstill, I've got a ways to go before I match the effort required with the alternative approach
01:48:45Galoisso let's keep going
01:48:58Mikachubug = something dongs wants, feature request = something dongs doesn't want
01:49:19amiconndongs actually wants bugs? ;)
01:49:19 Part |AhIoRoS|
01:50:02dongsPaul_The_Nerd: functionality which makes no sense to anyone except the original developer = bug. unexpected, broken functionality = bug. shit crashing = bug. etc.
01:50:17dongsshit that confuses users = bug
01:50:32Paul_The_Nerddongs: And so when several people think the functionality makes sense, and only one person actually reports it as a problem, should it be assumed to be a bug or not?
01:50:58pixelmaif dongs is that one person...
01:51:04Paul_The_NerdFor example, the Pause icon thing. You're the only person who's *ever* spoken of it.
01:51:26dongsyour point?
01:51:52Mikachui agree that both are improvements if implemented
01:51:52Paul_The_NerdSo, the majority of respondents like it.
01:52:00 Quit Sinbios ("If the definition of a klutz is someone who doesn't have eyes on their ass, then yes, I suppose I am a klutz.")
01:52:07Paul_The_NerdOr at least prefer the existing method over your suggestion of lying about the paused status.
01:52:33dongsNo, majority don't give a fuck and/or shrug it off as 'typical opensource brokenness', and the energy required to get these bugs fixed is obviously much more than just shutting up and dealing with it.
01:52:35Paul_The_NerdAll I'm saying is that you seem to define things as a bug based upon your own preference, even though the actions are actually intended.
01:52:45dongsPaul_The_Nerd: this is why opensource in general, linux specifically, and lunix GUIs even more specifically arent going anywhere.
01:52:51midkaytypical brokenness.. my god..
01:52:56Mikachudongs: it would go much better if you didn't start off your report with "your all assholes"
01:52:59*amiconn wonders wth the Pause icon thing is
01:53:03dongsMikachu: i didnt.
01:53:07midkaydongs: then WHY on earth are you using it? if you hate it so much and it's all broken and shitty and open source?
01:53:19*amiconn considers the gnome gui very usable
01:53:24Paul_The_Nerdamiconn: Dongs feels it should show the pause icon immediately after pressing pause, even if the music is still playing and the timer is advancing because it's fading.
01:53:28dongsamiconn: how do I view all my bugs?
01:53:29dongsi'll tell you
01:53:38dongsoh i see
01:53:41Mikachudongs: "tasks reported by me" in the
01:53:44dongsamiconn: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/5821
01:54:07amiconnPaul_The_Nerd: I would _never_ have noticed that
01:54:32[HO]voltlol @ dongs for such a picky "bug"
01:54:44dongsyeah, thanks for 'lolling @ me'
01:54:46Mikachusigh
01:54:50amiconn..and I can tell you why - I have disabled all fading because fading annoys me.
01:54:53[HO]voltyou have been lolled
01:54:58dongsamiconn: you know why it annoys you?
01:55:09amiconnyes
01:55:18dongsamiconn: because of htat exact bug - you dont get immediate indication that something happened
01:55:21dongswhen you press a key.
01:55:24amiconnno
01:55:26[HO]voltmy iaudio is telling me it hates me. AKA "Error Updating Playlist Control File."
01:55:37Paul_The_Nerdamiconn: I'm okay with some indication that fading is occurring, such as an alternating Play/Pause icon, but I really strongly felt that displaying "Pause" if the music was still moving was a worse "bug" than not displaying it when it isn't truly paused yet.
01:55:42amiconnWhen I press pause or stop, I want it to pause or stop immediately
01:55:48amiconnI don't care about the icon
01:55:58amiconnI often don't even look at the display
01:56:07dongsyeah.
01:56:14dongsso when fade is on by default
01:56:32amiconnIt's the fading itself that annoys me, not any type of indication on non-indication
01:56:37dongsand you press shit, and it starts fading (or not, in case player was sleeping), the fact that it doesnt put anthing on the screen as a notification is even more annoying.
01:56:38Mikachufade on pause and peakmeters are things i wouldn't have enabled by default
01:56:45excitatorydongs: you know, i would agree with you on this useability issue.. and would even go so far as to prefer that as a functionality.. it does annoy me. however, it's not a "bug", and honestly, it's pretty negligible.
01:56:55Paul_The_Nerddongs: As has been said before, there's a simple solution to all your problems: Don't use our software.
01:57:20dongsokay, then add a new group in tracker called 'usability'
01:57:24dongsand i'll be glad to move my "bugs' there.
01:57:34dongsand add hundreds more
01:57:49Paul_The_NerdWhy is it impossible for you to just post them as feature requests?
01:57:55dongsbecause they arent.
01:57:57amiconndongs: If somewhat lagging indication would annoy me, I would e.g. use dircache, but I don't
01:57:58dongsyou still dont get it.
01:58:03Paul_The_NerdYou want a feature changed. You're requesting it.
01:58:31dongsamiconn: well, dircache has nothing to do with fade on pause, really.
01:58:38dongsbut yeah.
01:59:07Paul_The_Nerddongs: Remember, you don't get to define what is considered a bug in the tracker. Why do you refuse to post them simply because of what they should be named?
01:59:22dongsPaul_The_Nerd: because these are usability bugs. not feature requests.
02:00
02:00:04midkaywhy do you even bother, Paul_The_Nerd.. he won't give up his stance that functionality we've had since the feature was introduced is a bug..
02:00:04Mikachudongs: how about adding in the "User Interface" category?
02:00:37Mikachucan everyone do me a favor and stop arguing about whether or not it's a bug, everyone wants to change it
02:00:41Mikachu?
02:00:45Paul_The_Nerddongs: Simply put, a bug is an "error" and if it's working as intended then the error isn't in the program, it's in the choice to MAKE that part of the program, and so you're requesting a change of what feature the program desires
02:00:57excitatorydongs: pretty much the only reason this is not a bug is because that functionality was designed to do exactly that.. if it, for example, would fail to change the icon, or it wouldn't change as soon as the music actually stops... well, then that is a bug.
02:01:01dongsPaul_The_Nerd: lets say a text editor doesnt confirm with user to save changes on exit, and just quits, losing whatever open work exists. would you call this a 'bug' because its obviously a usability bug, or a 'feature request' because prompt-on-exit-and-save was never implemented by 'original developer'/
02:01:02amiconnA bug is a small animal ;)
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02:01:11Paul_The_NerdA bug is a problem in the program. A feature request is something lacking in the design philosophy.
02:01:21dongsi disagree.
02:01:29Paul_The_NerdWell, that's the way they are in the tracker.
02:01:32Mikachui'll just take that as a no then?
02:01:33Mikachufine
02:01:41*Mikachu goes away
02:01:45midkayhe disagrees. so, forget it.
02:01:46dongsMikachu: i think i added the pause bug in user interface category.
02:02:08*midkay can switch it over to a feature request..
02:02:18dongsPaul_The_Nerd: answer
02:02:19Paul_The_NerdMikachu: Well, dongs does report things worth considering, and it would be valuable to have him actually report things hopefully in a helpful way, if he can just deal with the fact that they're organized the way that they are.
02:02:34Paul_The_Nerddongs: I would request that the feature be added.
02:02:57dongsi see. well, to anyone who's spent more than 5 minutes in a real company developing software and doing usability testing, its a bug.
02:03:03Paul_The_Nerddongs: And that's 100% honesty. If they didn't feel it was necessary, and I do, clearly I want them to change their concepts of necessity to align with mine, so there's nothing "buggy" about the program, just the design concept
02:03:59dongsthe way real world (not open source developers) see it, is, any functionality of a program which causes user to lose data is a bug.
02:04:00fatherforkI've spent the last several minutes reading the conversation, and the bug report, and I'd like to add that as only a user I do not see this as a bug.
02:04:04Paul_The_Nerddongs: The problem is that the usability here is designed for the designers, as they're the primary users. You seem to miss that fact.
02:04:32dongsPaul_The_Nerd: I think i mentioned that more than once, this is one of the major reasons opensource in general isnt going anywhere.
02:04:40Paul_The_Nerddongs: It doesn't matter if it's going anywhere
02:04:41*midkay moved it to Feature Requests...
02:04:43dongsyou dont give a fuck about users, you care about 'scratching an itch'.
02:04:44Paul_The_NerdNobody's planning on selling Rockbox.
02:04:46excitatorydongs: yea, because the world of oss is fake.
02:05:09Paul_The_NerdSo, in the context of Rockbox, it would still qualify as a feature request.
02:05:17Paul_The_NerdSince you can't use your definition of "it would be a bug in a software company"
02:05:30dongsmidkay: wrong
02:05:44midkaydongs: how can i be "wrong" with saying that i moved it?
02:05:46midkayi simply did.
02:05:47dongsmidkay: it either goes in bugs or into 'usability' category, which considering this is an opensource project, doesnt exist.
02:05:48qwmyou're an obnoxious asshole, dongs
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02:05:56dongsmidkay: its in the wrong category now.
02:06:07midkaydongs: according to YOU.
02:06:11Paul_The_Nerddongs: WE define what each category contains, NOT YOU.
02:06:14MikachuPaul_The_Nerd: sometimes i think you argue with him just out of spite though
02:06:18dongsno, i submitted the bug.
02:06:18fatherforkthis is another one of those "if you don't like it, don't use it." or in this case, just request it be changed as a feature.
02:06:21midkaylive with it, or leave.. the latter would be preferable, but.. drop it.
02:06:25Paul_The_Nerddongs: And you put it in the wrong place.
02:06:54Paul_The_Nerddongs: Do you think that a northbound bus will take you southbound even though it's labelled north, just because you say "I stepped on the bus"?
02:07:05excitatorydongs: and the thing about the open source movement is that it doesn't have an objective agenda.. it's not looking to profit, or get on 1 million desktops by the end of the year, or anything like that.. sure individuals have an agenda, but oss itself does not.. it does what it does, on its own time in its own way. it's how it's always been.
02:07:28amiconn"A software bug is an error, flaw, mistake, failure, or fault in a computer program that prevents it from working as intended, or produces an incorrect result." <= from wikipedia
02:07:44midkayany more bugs for me to convert? :)
02:07:45fatherforkthe great wikipedia
02:07:52webguest64Where can I get some help for my Archos I think deleated a file that lets it boot up, is there a way to get it back or it my 5000 ruined?
02:07:54amiconnSo if it works as intended, it can't be a bug, even though it might not work as some users expect
02:08:09qwmi suppose dongs will add "feature request" to the article in a minute or two.
02:08:17fatherforkI submitted a bug about rockbox playing music earlier, I don't think it should do that.
02:09:29Paul_The_Nerdwebguest64: What happens when you try to boot?
02:09:36dongsamiconn: very smart on not pasting the next sentence, "Bugs arise from mistakes and errors, made by people, in either a program's source code or its design."
02:09:50fatherfork"mistakes"
02:09:52 Quit _hotwire_ (Connection timed out)
02:10:10midkaymistakes. errors. this is not a mistake, it is not an error. it is a design decision.
02:10:15fatherforkit's only a mistake if the programmer wrote it differently than he intended
02:10:24midkayyou disagree, so you *request* that it be change. then we consider it. that's all.
02:10:32Mikachuit's not a bloody design decision, nobody wants the next key not to go to the next track
02:10:46webguest64It showsJukebox ver 5.08 and then freezes till it shuts hop
02:10:48Paul_The_Nerddongs: The "its design" part though implies a flawed design in the context of picking the wrong math to solve the problem, as it doesn't say anything about the actual design philosophy, IE, what features are chosen.
02:10:50dongsnobody?
02:11:01dongsgo put random players in 1track repeat mode
02:11:03dongsand press next track.
02:11:13Mikachudongs: i was agreeing with you there
02:11:14midkayMikachu: maybe design decision is a bad word - it's what we set up to happen, and we intended it, even if it isn't for the best.
02:11:25Paul_The_Nerddongs: NOBODY said it was a bad idea to change it to actually go to the next track. You're changing the subject from the definition of "bug" again.
02:11:33dongsoh, i missed hte 'not'
02:11:58dongsso, when can i expect it to be fixed?
02:12:02fatherforkhaha
02:12:16fatherforkexpect nothing
02:12:21fatherforkhope
02:12:23dongsyea, im not holding my breath
02:12:26Mikachudongs: march 3rd
02:12:27Mikachu:)
02:12:28Paul_The_Nerddongs: It's not as important as say, getting the player to stop freezing, so maybe give more important bugs a while to get worked out.
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02:12:51Mikachu"you said 7 and a half minutes!" "IT WAS AN ARBITRARY NUMBER!" //sg-a
02:13:04*midkay hates flyspray.
02:13:52Mikachuquoting stargate always stops a discussion
02:14:07midkayhaha.
02:14:47webguest64so any help, please
02:15:12fatherfork64, did you try redoing everything from the begining?
02:15:23Mikachuwebguest64: can you get it into filetransfer mode anyhow?
02:15:27Mikachusomehow
02:15:33Paul_The_Nerdwebguest64: So I take it you don't have Rockbox flashed? What did you do right before the problem happened?
02:15:55webguest64yes I've even installed rockbox 3 time but I think maybe an archos file is missing and I cant find it
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02:16:32webguest64replaced some songs the previous owner had and put my own on
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02:22:56_hotwire_I've found a really nice article on design that might be fitting in this situation: http://headrush.typepad.com/creating_passionate_users/2006/05/dont_give_in_to.html
02:23:38dongsoh yeah, totally fucking relevant
02:25:05Paul_The_Nerddongs: Cursing isn't necessary.
02:25:52midkayhaha.
02:25:54midkay1) The Active Haters
02:25:54midkayThose who hate you no matter what you do. The more popular you become, the louder they become.
02:26:04dongsnow all you need is for someone to feature request being able to change mp3 decoder engine 'just because one dveloper thinks decoder x sounds better htan decoder y'
02:26:18midkaydongs: i'm betting we'll get that from you soon..
02:26:25Mikachuhow many fixed point mp3 decoders do you know of?
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02:27:29Mikachumplayer has 3 different mp3 decoders compiled in by default
02:28:30Mikachui don't have a point, i was just saying
02:28:31Paul_The_NerdOoh, we should bring back the old FLAC implementation and let users pick which one to use! :-P
02:30:43Dammehmm, I'm trying to use IDA to disassembly pp5020 binary .. cant find the cpu though
02:31:02Mikachuarm7tdmi?
02:31:25Dammearm710a I've got
02:31:54dongsDamme: goodluck, youre not gonna get very far
02:32:03Mikachudongs: at least with open source, if you are really really annoyed with a bug, you can fix it yourself. if this was #apple you would have even less success
02:32:27dongsMikachu: if this was #apple I wouldn't even have this problem because such bug would never be allowed into release build
02:32:48[HO]voltWith my iAudio, while setting the time with Rockbox, how do I navigate to any other part of the screen than Hours ?
02:32:57Paul_The_Nerddongs: Such as the MP3 playback bug that's been in iPods for several years?
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02:33:10Mikachudongs: you've never had problems with proprietary products that were impossible to fix yourself?
02:33:24*Mikachu gives his nvidia drivers the evil eye
02:33:42dongsMikachu: most proprietary products I use that I have paid for have a very responsive development team which is happy to fix bugs I report.
02:34:18Paul_The_NerdOdd. Any time I've tried to report a bug about the iPod, I've been accused of being a music pirate and sent on my way.
02:34:48dongswere you complaining that youre scene release ripped mp3s didnt play?
02:34:52dongsi'd say the same thing as well.
02:34:58Paul_The_Nerd"Your MP3 decoder can't handle all VBR MP3s" shouldn't be responded with "It'll handle ones our encoder makes. Why can't you just use it? Clearly if your music was obtained legally you could use our encoder."
02:35:10dongsprecisely.
02:35:11Paul_The_Nerddongs: I was saying that the MP3s I received from They Might Be Giants didn't work.
02:35:12dongsthat is a valid answer.
02:35:29Paul_The_NerdFully legal, from a well known band, and fully compliant files.
02:35:37Paul_The_NerdThat their decoder chokes on because it can't handle bitrate spikes well.
02:35:54[HO]voltEncode to wmv with winamp then back to mp3 with (anything)
02:35:54[HO]volt?
02:36:05Mikachudongs: so saying you won't fix your mp3 decoder to play mp3 files is okay, but not adding a feature is a deadly sin?
02:36:13 Quit qwm (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:36:14Paul_The_Nerd[HO]volt: You mean "Completely and utterly destroy any remaining quality in the song by transcoding to another lossy format"?
02:36:28Mikachu[HO]volt: that is maybe the stupidest thing i've read tonight, and that doesn't say little
02:36:40[HO]voltOuch
02:36:42Paul_The_NerdMy theory is that if I pay for an "MP3" player, that any compliant MP3 file should play in it, unless the packaging states otherwise.
02:37:11Paul_The_NerdSeeing as nowhere in the official documentation or the packaging does it state that the product only works with AppleMP3, I, rightfully I believe, assumed it was compatible with the well known MP3 file format.
02:38:11dongsPaul_The_Nerd: did you send them a link to the specific MP3 which was causing trouble with the decoder?
02:39:08Paul_The_Nerddongs: In that instance it was their phone support. I offered to though.
02:39:11Paul_The_NerdThey had no interest though
02:39:21Paul_The_NerdTheir official policy is that they are only required to support files encoded in iTunes.
02:39:52dongssounds reasonable.
02:39:58Paul_The_NerdIn what sense?
02:40:18dongsthey cant please everyone, and you probably never bought a single song from their store, which makes you that much less important to them as a customer.
02:40:28Paul_The_NerdYou can't sell a CDDA player that only plays Sony CDs and have the CDDA logo on it, because it's trademarked.
02:40:35Paul_The_NerdTheir store doesn't sell MP3s
02:40:41LandusDoes anyone know if Rockbox has support for Japanese symbols in filenames and ID3 tags?
02:40:46MikachuLandus: yes
02:40:53LandusAwesome.
02:40:56MikachuLandus: you need to select a font with japanese chars first
02:41:01LandusDon't have to rename anything.
02:41:03MikachuLandus: i know unifont and 6+12x13 do
02:41:05dongsLandus: it works. some mp3s that are in sjis tags will needs default codepage set.
02:41:07Paul_The_Nerddongs: By advertising it as supporting the MP3 format, and then not doing so, they're breaking a few consumer protection laws in my state, at the minimum.
02:41:25LandusBascially, I'm just fixing alot tags on my music.
02:41:33LandusThen putting everything that I fix back on my DAP.
02:41:52[HO]voltanyone that knows anything about rockbox + iaudio - help me set my time, please? i cant navigate away from the "hours" selection
02:41:56LandusIt just want to know if I had to rename things because of the support, or lack of, for the Japanese characters in some of the music I'm putting bakc on.
02:42:15MikachuLandus: http://mikachu.ath.cx/slask/mikachu-wps.png
02:42:31dongshere's a tip to help you organize your music: find a program that calculates CRC32 of a file, then calculate crc32 for all your MP3s then rename them to 0123ABCD.MP3 (the numbers obviously being the CRC32 calculated) then you can have an official mp3 collection fully 8.3 compliant.
02:42:33Paul_The_Nerd[HO]volt: It may be a side-effect of the recent button mapping changes. You might want to post in the thread.
02:42:35Mikachu(that theme is not a serious attempt at a good looking theme)
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02:42:51pixelmadongs: AFAIK the apple firmware doesn't play gapless - did you report it to them as a bug?
02:43:06Paul_The_Nerdpixelma: Gapless is "useless" to him.
02:43:13dongsindeed
02:43:15dongsthanks for answering fo rme.
02:43:25Paul_The_NerdWhich of course is again a misuse of the word, but we'll not go into that here.
02:43:28dongsMikachu: that font is so damn ugly i just want to gouge my eyes out
02:43:40Mikachudongs: well, get me a better one that fits on the nano screen
02:43:54Mikachudongs: i use the exact same font for irssi btw
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02:45:44[HO]voltMikachu: if that is an x5 screenshot, how do i take one?
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02:45:50dongswhat was that screenshot function in rockbox
02:45:59Mikachu[HO]volt: it's a nano, and no, it's from the sim
02:46:04[HO]voltok
02:46:06Mikachuand yes, you can take a screenshot
02:46:13Mikachubut i don't know how to exactly
02:46:22dongswhen does it screendump?
02:46:25dongson usb conneect?
02:46:31Mikachudongs: no complaints on the music selection then?
02:46:40Paul_The_Nerd[HO]volt: In the debug menu, enable screendump. Then when you plug in a USB cable it writes a .bmp to the root directory.
02:46:50Paul_The_NerdDisable it for USB to work like normal again
02:46:55[HO]voltoka
02:48:08dongsMikachu: http://pbx.mine.nu/f.png looks slightly less gay in my opinion.
02:48:21Mikachudongs: what font is this?
02:48:30dongsmine.
02:48:44Mikachuwould you care to share it?
02:48:48dongsthat i generated out of windows fonts with a program
02:48:54Mikachuor is it copyrighted?
02:49:01dongsi can give you the program that made it.
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02:49:14dongs(i think i gave it to markun at some point)
02:49:29dongsit collects sbits out of ttf fonts for cjk and makes a rockbox-compatible font.
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02:49:48Mikachuah, i think i saw that program the other day
02:50:09Mikachualso, not so much on the less gay with the pink :P
02:50:14[HO]voltmight be gay but looks good to me, took about an hour to relearn wps and get everything lined up: http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/9300/voltbackgroundzj3.png
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02:51:57dongswhere was default wps again
02:52:08dongsi need to remove peakmeters from it so i can forever dump this icatchier stuff
02:52:19dongsi remember someone told me the place to get it
02:52:24dongsin some source file
02:52:26Mikachuthat was me
02:52:28Mikachuunfortunately i forgot
02:52:58Mikachudongs: apps/gui/gwps-common.c
02:53:02Mikachuand remove this line
02:53:04Paul_The_Nerddongs: The easiest place is to go to the WPSGallery and click the Recorder gallery
02:53:06Mikachugwps-common.c: "%pm\n", false);
02:53:07Paul_The_Nerdor the Archos one, rather
02:53:14Mikachuwell, put the , false); on the line before
02:53:19Mikachuyou get the idea
02:53:34Paul_The_NerdiCatcher has a few fairly major flaws in my opinion. =/
02:53:45Paul_The_NerdThat stupid volume circle bottoms out at like, -40 or so.
02:53:46Mikachui don't like the overall look of it
02:53:56Paul_The_NerdAnd if you have the music pause, you get *no* volume display at all.
02:54:03Mikachuand it spins! yay
02:54:42dongsi dont like the fact that it doesnt wokr wiht my font
02:54:48ToyKeeperHmm... I still haven't done anything with the volume meter on my theme.
02:54:52dongs(oh and looks ugly but never midn that)
02:55:24ToyKeeperI tried, but ran into some sort of total image size limit and gave up for the day.
02:55:27dongswhat hte hell
02:55:32dongsMikachu: i dont need to rebuild rockbox for this shit do i?
02:55:39Mikachudongs: course you do
02:55:43Mikachudongs: or
02:55:49dongscant i jsut cut that shit out
02:55:50dongsinto a .txt
02:55:51Mikachudongs: copy the text in "" to a file and load it as a wps
02:55:53Mikachuyes
02:55:55dongsyea ok
02:55:58Mikachui remember telling you this last time too
02:56:26dongsso its only like
02:56:27dongs15 lines?
02:56:28dongsof stuff?
02:56:40Mikachuthat sounds like an accurate description
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02:57:01Paul_The_Nerddongs: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/WpsArchos#The_Rockbox_default_for_Recorder
02:57:05Paul_The_NerdEasier to copy 'n paste from
02:57:25dongsya im on ipod though. but thanks for trying
02:57:26Mikachui suppose that works too
02:57:32Mikachuthe default theme is the same on all targets
02:57:35dongsoh
02:57:38dongsk
02:57:41dongsya that looks same
02:57:57Paul_The_NerdJust erase the %pm (which doesn't show on Archos, but it's there in the code. Odd)
02:58:45pixelmaPaul_The_Nerd: it shows on Archos if the user has turned off the status bar
02:58:51Paul_The_NerdAaah
03:00
03:00:22*Paul_The_Nerd never turns his off, so wouldn't have noticed.
03:00:43dongsoh thats anothe rthing
03:00:43Mikachudoesn't that waste awesome cpu powers?
03:00:44pixelmayeah me too.. just because I read the code
03:00:47dongsin icatcher theres no statusbar
03:00:57dongsso i cant tell what time it is
03:03:03dongsyes!
03:03:04dongsfinally
03:03:07dongsim free from gayness
03:03:35[HO]volthow so?
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03:03:45dongsback to default wps with no peakmeters
03:03:49[HO]voltaha.
03:04:15dongsnow i can play stuff on 120% speedup again without skipping
03:04:27Mikachuhooray
03:04:33[HO]volthow much battery life is used on the iaudio with hold on and player paused, vs. turning the unit all the way off
03:04:35Mikachui think i can play at 140%
03:05:01dongsoh, i think it goes around there, but it would skip even at 120% wiht peakmeters on
03:05:10Mikachuah
03:05:33pixelmaMikachu: don't think so because the peakmeters aren't a problem on Archos and I think it "knows" if the peakmeter should be drawn or not (think they aren't drawn in the off)
03:05:33dongsskips at 160%
03:05:54Mikachupixelma: on ipods, the peakmeters makes stuff skip even if you're in the _menu_
03:06:09dongs150% doesnt skip
03:06:15dongsprobably about max
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03:07:13telliott_Is the current daily build for V1 recorder broken?
03:07:51dongsis gray ipods still broken with rockbox?
03:08:17Mikachui have heard amiconn talk a lot about grayscale ipods lately
03:08:22dongshrm
03:08:35Mikachuwell, black and white, but grayscale in rockbox
03:08:38dongshopefully that means good things
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03:09:10Mikachui do not know if they play mp3 at realtime
03:09:16Mikachuif they are the ones with broken cpu cache
03:09:41dongssurely, if original firmware plays mp3, then its a bug in rockbox :P
03:10:00Mikachuit has two cpus, rockbox only uses one
03:10:07Mikachudan_a is working on that
03:11:54dongshttp://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/5755
03:11:54dongshurm
03:12:29***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
03:14:19telliott_I tried yesterday's build and poweroff (double press "off") seems to be broke for my V1 recorder.
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03:16:02Paul_The_NerdI believe the 4G grayscale plays MP3 realtime just fine (not including freeze-bugs), the 3G does not yet.
03:16:59 Part pixelma
03:17:09Mikachuah
03:18:30Paul_The_NerdThe PP5002 have that broken cache issue, which means that it'll need to be worked around. And it's not like we were "comfortably" realtime on other iPods anyway
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03:19:39hotwire_can anyone tell me offhand how many buttons are on the LCD remotes, and their rough orientation?
03:20:51Paul_The_NerdWhich LCD remotes?
03:20:58Paul_The_NerdAnd "11" for the h100 one.
03:21:45Paul_The_NerdYou have three rockers (you can tilt them left or right, for two buttons, and push them in for a third, total of 9) with two rockers on the top of the remote, one on the bottom, and Play and Stop buttons on the face of the remote.
03:22:07telliott_The build for 8/15 works cporrectly.
03:22:16telliott_correctly
03:25:39telliott_.
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03:28:06 Join _hotwire_ [0] (n=christop@toronto-HSE-ppp4321977.sympatico.ca)
03:29:14ShadowdogMUAnyone creative here, I need a new domain
03:29:23 Quit hotwire_ (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
03:29:44Mikachujust type characters into your browser until no page appears
03:30:00ShadowdogMU_-_
03:32:43fatherforkwhat's the site for?
03:34:02 Nick qwx is now known as qwm (n=qwm@h229n1fls34o1010.telia.com)
03:34:12ShadowdogMUJust a personal site to have fun with
03:34:18ShadowdogMUI current as www.brockarthur.com (my name)
03:34:26ShadowdogMUcurrently have*
03:34:43Mikachujust use your ip in decimal
03:34:53ShadowdogMU<.>
03:34:55ShadowdogMU>.<
03:34:55fatherforkwww.brockarthurrocks.com
03:35:00ShadowdogMUhaha fatherfork
03:35:09fatherforkha
03:35:28Mikachu1092418765
03:35:30Mikachuthere you are
03:35:35fatherforkwww.onthebrocks.com
03:36:39 Join Sinbios [0] (n=Sinbios@HSE-Hamilton-ppp3513671.sympatico.ca)
03:36:40ShadowdogMUhaha, on the brocks
03:37:00Mikachuor arthurfromthebrocks.com
03:37:09fatherforkyeah man
03:37:22fatherforkon the brocks, shaken, not stirred
03:37:29fatherforker something to that affect
03:39:17_hotwire_Paul_The_Nerd: Any suggestion of a keyboard assignment of the keys for the UISim?
03:41:24dongsam i gonna get battery charging on nano while playing and plugged into usb?
03:41:40 Quit JoeXBorn (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
03:41:41Mikachui think the net effect might be drain
03:41:58Mikachuunknown register needs to be flipped to enable full charging is my understanding
03:42:45Paul_The_Nerddongs: I get charging.
03:43:04Paul_The_NerdI think it's kinda on the edge though, it depends on how high your boost % ends up during playback
03:43:54_hotwire_Paul_The_Nerd: I'm gonna try to implement support for the LCD remote buttons in the UISim.
03:44:37Paul_The_Nerd_hotwire_: I don't know what would be good honestly. No clue.
03:44:48_hotwire_How about QWE, RTY, XCV, and SD for Stop and Play/Pause?
03:45:43Mikachuthat would suck if you don't use qwerty
03:45:59_hotwire_true, but the vast majority do.
03:46:09Mikachuunfortunately :(
03:46:16*Mikachu pities the vast majority
03:46:22_hotwire_With all those buttons, there isn't any more real estate on the numpad
03:46:41Paul_The_Nerd_hotwire_: You could always do 1-0 and - for the normal number bar?
03:46:51Paul_The_NerdSo, 123, 456, 789, 0 and -
03:49:14 Join hotwire_ [0] (n=christop@toronto-HSE-ppp4321977.sympatico.ca)
03:49:37hotwire_That I could try, so long as it doesn't interfere with the other numbers on the numpad
03:49:56hotwire_however, in labellign them, we'd have to specify which "1 2 3 etc depending
03:50:12hotwire_maybe label the BMP with yellow numbers for main keyboard and leave red for the numpad?
03:50:49hotwire_anyway, i'm heading out for a pint... will be back later... feel free to discuss and I'll try to implement the consensus
03:56:08 Join sharpe [0] (i=sharpe@user-0c8hc2c.cable.mindspring.com)
03:57:15sharpeI'm back everyone!
03:58:52Mikachuhooray
04:00
04:00:35sharpeYep. Back to answer meaningless questions...
04:04:21fatherforkSharpe, wht is the sky blue?
04:04:23fatherforkwhy
04:04:28fatherforkWHY???
04:05:05sharpefatherfork: Because. It is.
04:05:17Mikachuactually it is because of rayleigh diffraction
04:05:53Mikachumolecules in the atmosphere happen to have the right size for blue light to spread
04:06:25fatherforkyeah yeah, only the blue it let through except at thicker atmospheric point, ie. at sunrise and sunset
04:06:28Mikachuhttp://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/atmos/blusky.html
04:07:09fatherforkno, that's why the moon and sun change colors, my bad
04:07:17 Quit _hotwire_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
04:07:21Mikachuall light is let through
04:07:31Mikachuthe effect is rather that blue light is not let through
04:07:41fatherforkyeah yeah
04:07:49fatherforkI really didn't mean to start a discussion
04:08:02sharpeWell, what else is there to discuss?
04:08:06fatherforkI liked "because it is"
04:08:06Mikachui know
04:08:14Mikachui was just being annoying
04:08:22sharpeFun sucker.
04:08:27fatherforkum, i still want to know why rockbox plays music, that has to be a bug.
04:08:28 Part Paul_The_Nerd
04:08:45Mikachuyeah, it should be rocking my box
04:08:48sharpefatherfork: It's one of the elusive, polymorphic bugs we cannot find.
04:09:10fatherforkjeez well f******* FIX IT ALREADY
04:09:17fatherforkgah
04:09:28sharpeWell, there is a fix for it.
04:09:38Mikachufatherfork: rm .rockbox/codecs -rf
04:09:40fatherforkno, I want it to be coded in
04:09:59Mikachuyou mean coded out?
04:10:05fatherforkI still want all the codecs to work, I just don't want music to play when I select it
04:10:11sharpeOr built in?
04:10:26Mikachuor laid carefully on top
04:10:26sharpeAh. Easy. We can just comment out lines in the code. :)
04:10:33fatherforkno, coded in, it's a bug, it should be coded in. you have no idea what you're talking about.
04:10:40Mikachuor tied to the bottom with a very delicate piece of string?
04:10:51sharpeSleeping with the fishes?
04:11:05Mikachucapisko?
04:21:54 Join JoeyBorn [0] (n=rootmeis@adsl-75-3-25-93.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net)
04:23:55[HO]voltso was the -72 to +6 volume system worked into all of rockbox or just my beloved iAudio x5?
04:27:40sharpe[HO]volt: It's dependant on the hardware.
04:28:23sharpeFor instance, on an iPod 5G the scale goes from -58db to +6db.
04:28:56apo`[HO]volt, my iPod 4G has -74 to +6
04:29:16 Quit juxtap (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
04:29:36Mikachui never bothered checking the minimum
04:32:15fatherforkyeah, on the iPod the volume does go very low
04:32:25 Quit midkay ("Leaving")
04:32:28fatherforkit's still a little loud when listening in bed
04:33:40[HO]voltso does that mean that anything above 0 is clipping (similar to Archos Recorders clipping at 92 and above)?
04:33:52Mikachuthat depends on the input file level
04:33:55[HO]voltAnd that 0 is the maximum output without clipping by the mp3 player
04:33:58 Join Ranix [0] (n=Ranix@dynamic-acs-24-154-118-84.zoominternet.net)
04:34:08[HO]volti see...
04:34:18Mikachubelow zero is at least guaranteed not to clip
04:34:43[HO]voltbut 0 may clip
04:34:48Mikachuprobably not
04:35:05Mikachui am not sure exactly
04:35:10Mikachubut i think 0 is also safe
04:35:29 Join midkay [0] (n=midkay@rockbox/developer/midkay)
04:35:34[HO]voltalright, i'll do some tests.
04:36:44fatherforkis there anyway to get the iPod volume to go lower?
04:36:59Mikachui am fairly sure it's a hardware limit
04:37:52Mikachuyou can use replaygain to change the volume further
04:37:56Mikachu(the pre-amp setting)
04:38:11Mikachuthat will let you go down an additional -12 dB
04:38:17 Quit hotwire_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
04:38:31fatherforkoh that's true
04:38:37fatherforkI'll try it, thanks
04:38:51Mikachui am not sure if it applies pre-amp if no tags are found
04:38:52 Join hotwire_ [0] (n=christop@toronto-HSE-ppp4321977.sympatico.ca)
04:38:58fatherforkI have tags
04:39:11fatherfork3 and a half hours worth of freakin tags
04:39:15Mikachuhaha
04:39:24Mikachuokay, no foreseen problems then
04:39:56 Join _jhMikeS_ [0] (n=jethead7@adsl-68-252-4-207.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net)
04:40:11 Nick gtkspert_ is now known as gtkspert (n=gtkspert@203-59-171-67.dyn.iinet.net.au)
04:40:31fatherforkwow, yeah that does work
04:40:32fatherforknice
04:40:32 Quit JoeyBorn (Connection timed out)
04:40:42fatherforkthanks Mikachu
04:40:46Mikachuhooray
04:40:58Mikachuonly problem is it takes five minutes to scroll to -12 :)
04:41:15fatherforkdoes the pre-amp do anything to decode time?
04:41:22fatherforkI mean, playback speed
04:41:26fatherforkI mean, uh, you know
04:41:27Mikachudid you have replaygain enabled already?
04:41:30 Quit jhMikeS (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
04:41:30fatherforkyes
04:41:39fatherforkso I guess no
04:41:41Mikachuthen let's hope the pre-amp is premultiplied with the tag gain
04:41:50fatherforkmakes sense
04:42:13fatherforkand I just went to -5
04:42:43Mikachui guess you'd want to use as little pre-amp as possible
04:42:49Mikachuto not lose dynamic range
04:42:55Mikachuis that the right word?
04:43:07Mikachusample precision anyway
04:43:51fatherforkyeah, I understand that
04:44:32fatherforkit's already "under-amping" most of my songs to -10 anyway
04:44:44 Nick _jhMikeS_ is now known as jhMikes (n=jethead7@adsl-68-252-4-207.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net)
04:45:07Mikachui wonder if it'd be possible to make rockbox change the hw volume based on replaygain and only do the fractional part in software
04:45:26fatherforkum... huh?
04:45:33Mikachuif the tag is -7.5dB
04:45:34fatherforklost me a little there
04:45:37Mikachuand you have the volume set at -5dB
04:45:52Mikachuthen when you open the file, rb sets the volume at -12dB and applies -.5dB in software
04:45:52fatherforkah, yeah i gotcha
04:45:59fatherforkyeah
04:46:00JdGordondoes anyone else think its bloody stupid that if u dont have a /Playlists folder and try going into the playlist ctaglog screens it will complain instead of just making it?
04:46:07Mikachuyes
04:46:11Mikachuthat is bloody stupid :)
04:46:13fatherforkyeah
04:46:21Mikachuor "do you want to create it?"
04:46:32fatherforkit should make it, and store the playlists you create there, instead of in /root
04:46:39Mikachubut probably you did since you selected the playlist catalog
04:48:35fatherforkMikachu, one more question... do you think it detrimental at all to set pre-amp to -5 then adjust hardware volume back up to compensate while listening normally just so I don't have to keep changing the pre-amp levels?
04:48:54Mikachunah i doubt it's possible to hear the difference
04:49:02Mikachubut you're asking mr 100kbps ogg
04:49:09fatherforkhaha
04:49:17fatherforkwell it hasn't skipped yet
04:49:24fatherforkwith at least 256 mp3
04:49:42Mikachuyou can look at the audio thread debug screen to get an idea of processor load
04:49:51Mikachuwait a minute or two and see what 'boost %' is
04:49:53fatherforkthat on the unit itself?
04:50:00fatherforkdebug?
04:50:04Mikachuinfo -> debug (keep out!) -> audio thread
04:50:32fatherforkboost is 100%
04:50:38fatherforkok, 94%
04:50:41Mikachuyou didn't wait a minute or two yet
04:50:49Mikachui know this, because a minute has not passed
04:50:56fatherforktrue
04:51:07Mikachuit only keeps track while you're in the screen
04:51:12fatherforkah
04:51:50fatherforkthat's cool that the cpu frequency changes on the fly
04:53:28Mikachuwhat is it now?
04:53:36Mikachuor when you got bored
04:53:40fatherforkhey the top black bar, "pcm", the longer the black, the higher the load?
04:53:51Mikachuno, only the boost % says what the load is
04:53:52fatherforkhaha, I'm still not bored
04:53:55fatherforkok
04:54:02fatherforkstill 95%
04:54:03Mikachuthe pcm bar is the decoded audio buffer
04:54:06fatherforkah
04:54:07Mikachuoh
04:54:18Mikachuthe other one is encoded audio
04:54:19fatherforkbad?
04:54:23fatherforkyeah
04:54:32Mikachui'd say it's a tad high
04:54:33 Quit XavierGr ()
04:54:34 Quit Ranix (Client Quit)
04:54:38Mikachuyou're not scrolling around with the wheel or anything?
04:54:45 Quit actionshrimp ("( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.01 :: www.XLhost.de )")
04:54:51fatherforknope
04:55:01Mikachuwell, i haven't tried 256kbps in that screen
04:55:10Mikachuwhat player is it exactly?
04:55:11fatherforkyeah
04:55:27fatherforkI turned the pre-amp back to 0
04:55:30fatherforkwill report
04:55:39Mikachuare you using the eq too?
04:55:42fatherforkno
04:55:53fatherforknot even crossfeed
04:56:01fatherforkcrossfade is on
04:56:10Mikachuwhat ipod do yo uhave?
04:56:14fatherfork5G
04:56:16fatherfork60
04:56:18Mikachuah
04:56:32Mikachuthat would explain it
04:56:52fatherforkyeah, no broadcom support
04:56:59fatherforkis that why?
04:57:05fatherforkbigger screen the problem?
04:57:06Mikachuno.. none of the other ipods even have that chip :)
04:57:09fatherforkah
04:57:11Mikachuthe bigger screen is the problem
04:57:15fatherforki thought the nano did
04:57:20sharpefatherfork: Nope...
04:57:27fatherforkoh
04:57:33Mikachuwhy would anyone put a hw video decoder in a nano?
04:57:34fatherforksame architecture?
04:57:42fatherforkno, not the broadcom chip
04:57:48fatherforkjust the regular one
04:57:54sharpeThe... processor?
04:57:58fatherforkyeah
04:58:01Mikachuthe regular one is just a cpu, well two
04:58:09Mikachuwe know how to use the cpu :)
04:58:18fatherforkyeah, I know that
04:58:25Mikachui use the word "we" in the broad sense here
04:59:06fatherforkI mean, don't the 5G and nano use the same processor?
04:59:29Mikachuyes
04:59:48Mikachubut drawing the screen on the 5g takes much longer
04:59:53fatherforkso why is processor ...
04:59:55fatherforkright
04:59:55Mikachuand the debug screen does a lot of screen drawing
05:00
05:00:01fatherforkthat's what I asked
05:00:02Mikachuprobably more than the wps even
05:00:33fatherforkmikachu, btw, with pre-amp at 0, boost is 90%
05:00:41Mikachuhm, that's weird
05:00:45fatherforkyeah
05:01:50Mikachu if (global_settings.replaygain_preamp)
05:01:53Mikachu gain = (long) (((int64_t) gain * preamp) >> 24);
05:01:57Mikachuso it's premulted
05:02:30*JdGordon hopes he doesnt get his ass kicked for this...
05:02:45Mikachuuh this code is weird
05:03:03Mikachuoh right
05:03:04Mikachunm
05:03:35*Mikachu kicks JdGordon's ass just in case
05:03:40JdGordonlol
05:04:15fatherforkhaha
05:04:16 Quit pike (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
05:04:53 Join solarflare [0] (n=supernov@hy-ovpn2-5.vpn.helsinki.fi)
05:05:17JdGordongrrr.. have the builds frozen again?
05:07:58*Mikachu watches nobody get surprised
05:10:13JdGordonno, it just took a few min to start!
05:10:27Mikachumaybe it was only a bit cold then
05:10:39sharpeOr maybe too hot, so it had to cool down.
05:12:32***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
05:12:42*JdGordon is impatient and wants to make a page scraper so i can get rss from the cvs build page
05:13:20sharpeWouldn't be too hard.
05:17:51Mikachui don't know if they want people to start rss pinging the poor 2mbit server every 5 minutes
05:19:09JdGordonno.. but im doing that anyway after a commit and its annoying coz it downloades all the pics every time
05:19:20Mikachuoh, get a better browser
05:19:24scorcheuse lynx =P
05:19:26JdGordonff
05:19:57Mikachuset your browser up better..er.. more well?
05:21:22fatherforkmore betterer
05:21:39BHSPitMonkeygooder, people.
05:21:57fatherforkno, my old band director said gooder, kill them all
05:22:40fatherforkI recommend safari
05:22:40BHSPitMonkeyanyone here who's good at calculus, and good at explaining concepts
05:23:00BHSPitMonkey+?
05:23:04fatherforknope
05:23:14*fatherfork failed math, and life
05:23:50sharpeI'm taking Ap Calculus this year...
05:26:41fatherforkman that box keeps getting more green
05:26:53BHSPitMonkeysharpe, undertsands "Limits" fully?
05:27:09sharpeEh. Not fully, no.
05:28:07 Join pike [0] (i=amiga@c83-249-120-24.bredband.comhem.se)
05:29:19 Quit hotwire_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
05:29:56 Join hotwire_ [0] (n=christop@toronto-HSE-ppp4321977.sympatico.ca)
05:38:13MikachuBHSPitMonkey: explaining math over irc is never easy
05:39:01Mikachulimits are basically a way to be able to say that 0/0 = 1
05:39:03BHSPitMonkeyprobably
05:39:14BHSPitMonkeyoh dear
05:39:14Mikachu:P
05:39:15BHSPitMonkeylol
05:39:28BHSPitMonkeywell, I'm going in early tomorrow for tutorials
05:39:29Mikachubut like, the chapter on limits is 50 pages or something
05:39:35BHSPitMonkeyso hopefully that should clear some things up
05:39:35Mikachui doubt i can sum it up for you
05:39:46Mikachuit's better to ask your teachers
05:39:50Mikachuthat's what you pay them for
05:39:54BHSPitMonkeylol hahaha
05:40:00BHSPitMonkeyat a public high school? ;)
05:40:12BHSPitMonkeymaybe it's what my parents and the taxpayers pay them for
05:40:22Mikachuoh, high school calculus heh
05:40:33BHSPitMonkeyit's AP Calculus BC, thank you
05:40:45Mikachuthe random letters don't really tell me much
05:40:46BHSPitMonkeythat's college Calculus 1 & 2
05:41:02BHSPitMonkeywrapped together into one headache package
05:41:13Mikachuand why are you taking it in high school?
05:41:37BHSPitMonkeybecause it's free now, and NOT free later?
05:41:47Mikachui see
05:41:54scorcheaye...i did the same thing
05:41:54Mikachuit's always free in sweden
05:42:00BHSPitMonkeyah.
05:42:05scorchetook BC, then stats
05:42:10BHSPitMonkeywell, college in usa is 'spensive
05:42:17Mikachuyeah i know
05:42:19BHSPitMonkeystats doesn't sound like a fun class
05:42:21sharpeI have to do Ap Calculus AB Online :\
05:42:23scorcheit was
05:42:23BHSPitMonkeythen again neither does calc
05:42:34BHSPitMonkeysharpe, why?
05:42:35scorcheteacher was fun
05:42:40scorchemaybe she made it fun
05:42:46scorchecalc sucked
05:42:47sharpeBHSPitMonkey: Conflicts with my schedule.
05:42:47Mikachuour calculus teacher was awesome too
05:43:00BHSPitMonkeybut didn't you take BC??
05:43:43 Quit jhMikes ("Client exited")
05:43:45sharpeNo?
05:44:01scorchewell, he has plenty of time to take it yet
05:44:18BHSPitMonkeysharpe, my apologies
05:44:27sharpeHaha :)
05:44:29BHSPitMonkeysharpe and scorche blended together in my weary eyes :(
05:44:36BHSPitMonkeyI must rest
05:44:48scorcheew...
05:44:54scorchepardon me while i go take a shower
05:44:57sharpeThat's odd.
05:45:05BHSPitMonkeynice interpretation there
05:45:17BHSPitMonkeyI of course was referring to the names :P
05:45:26scorchestill ew
05:45:41*BHSPitMonkey shrugs
05:45:44scorchemidkay: he thought i looked like a dog =(
05:45:45BHSPitMonkeyto each his own
05:46:03sharpe...
05:47:02 Join mihalis [0] (n=mihalis@adsl-71-159-136-1.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net)
05:47:18mihalisgot a problem... need major help =/
05:47:43scorchemihalis: it is a little hard to help you if we dont knwo what is wrong =)
05:47:44midkayi wish the entire shar pei species went extinct.
05:48:04mihalisokay lemme explain... i just wanted to make sure someone was awake here... thx
05:48:08scorchemidkay: harsh...
05:48:19midkaybreed*
05:48:19midkay:)
05:48:21fatherforkhaha
05:48:32midkayscorche: we'd all be better off!
05:48:44scorchemihalis: just because people dont respond, doesnt mean that people arent watching
05:48:55scorcheit is better to simply get the question out
05:49:06fatherforkso I have learned as well
05:49:53mihalisi installed rockbox on my archos jukebox recorder 15... it's been working fine for about a month or so since... just now i changed the batteries, only to now get a message "Hard Drive Error; Please Check HD" when it's starting...
05:49:57mihalisany suggestions?
05:50:02scorchemidkay: maybe we can kill them all and procure some kind of anti-wrinkle cream and get rich!
05:50:06fatherforkI'm trying to make a potato gun, can somebody tell me step-by-step instruction and make me a diagram?
05:50:19fatherfork(just kidding)
05:50:33mihalisi searched for this message on altavista, and rockbox stuff came up... particularly a chat which took place on this channel, which is how i got here..
05:50:50scorchemihalis: odd...
05:51:05fatherforkyou take the batteries out while it was on?
05:51:05midkayscorche: yeah... but we'd just get some lack-of-wittiness cream, if anything.
05:51:12fatherforkor not completely off yet/
05:51:14scorchedo you have rockbox flashed, or was this the original firmware speaking?
05:51:43mihalisthe original firmware... not good, eh?
05:51:55mihalisit just says underneath it.. "OS Version 1.28"
05:52:05scorcheyeah...that is original
05:52:29scorchehmmm...i have not heard it going off about the HD after putting in new batteries
05:52:48scorchedoes it say the same thing if you put the previous set of batteries in?
05:52:57mihalisyup...
05:53:04mihalisi tried that
05:53:21scorchedo you have an external battery charger?
05:53:58mihalisi'd send it back, but the warranty is expired... i always have to charge my batteries externaly, as the internal charger port broke 6 months after i got it
05:54:11mihalisbut the mp3 player has worked fine for 2 years since then
05:54:40scorchei once changed out new batteries in mine...had a similar problem...once i charged them externally, then put them in....it worked
05:54:46mihalisi know the batteries are good.. and i always use NiMH rechargeables
05:55:01mihalisthese were charged externally
05:55:49mihalisi'm thinking my ol'"Gigameister" may have finally bit the dust...
05:56:01*mihalis named his mp3 player...
05:56:04scorchenot all batteries are good...i have tried a set of cheap generic ones that did not have the resistance (?) to spin up the hard drive...but work fine in my mouse
05:56:22mihalisthese were duracell... the expensive kind
05:56:35fatherforkit really doesn't sound like a battery problem
05:56:49mihalisand i'd used these 2 sets many times, charging one set while the others were in use
05:57:01 Join Drkepilogue [0] (n=46e784d0@labb.contactor.se)
05:57:04scorchemihalis: will it boot into usb mode?
05:57:11mihalisnope...
05:57:25*mihalis thinks its a permanent hardware problem... *sigh*
05:57:45scorchewell, i dont know much else to say, other than to try a different hard drive
05:57:46mihalisand the sad thing is that i've babied this thing ever since i got it
05:57:56scorchehappen to have a spare 2.5? =P
05:58:18mihalisa what?
05:58:27scorche2.5 inch hard drive
05:58:43fatherforkit's a 2.5 in that thing?
05:58:47scorcheyes
05:59:07scorchei put a 160 gig drive in mine =P
05:59:08*fatherfork searches
05:59:30fatherforkoh wow, yeah those things were rocks
05:59:34mihalisno... i did have the presence of mind to back up all the material on it whenever the charger on it broke... i figured it was probably just a matter of time
05:59:39fatherfork(not to be confused with bricks)
05:59:48mihalisever since then, ive always kept backups of everything on it
05:59:58scorchetoo bad that the hardware doesnt address sectors above 128 gigs...but it serves its purpose =)
06:00
06:00:01 Join billytwowilly [0] (n=chris@S01060016b649355d.ed.shawcable.net)
06:00:09fatherforkhaha
06:00:10scorchemihalis: that is a good practice with anything =)
06:00:27*mihalis will probably not get another archos...
06:00:29billytwowillyhey, I don't see anything about a bookmarking feature on the webpage, does rockbox support bookmarking?
06:00:32scorchebut all i can say is to try a different hard drive
06:00:43fatherforkmihalis, in a couple weeks I'll have an extra 60gig you can buy from me cheep
06:00:47sharpebillytwowilly: yes.
06:00:50scorcheyeah...they are great devices....but are getting pretty outdated
06:00:57mihalisi'm going with an ipod next time... and yes, i know i'll wind up paying for advertising, but hopefully it will work better
06:01:10fatherforknah I love my iPod
06:01:19fatherforkit's not all hype
06:01:26sharpebillytwowilly: and i'm pretty sure there is somewhere on the website that mentions bookmarking. and if not, it's in the manual.
06:01:26mihalisthats what i hear
06:01:32billytwowillysharpe: bookmarking like I can save multiple bookmarks or bookmarks as in the lame way the ipod does it?
06:01:40scorchethe bumpers on the archos are really great =)
06:01:48sharpebillytwowilly: I don't use it, so I couldn't tell you.
06:01:50billytwowillysharpe: ever used a rio karma? bookmarking like that or like the ipod?
06:01:54billytwowillydarn.
06:01:56sharpeNope.
06:02:01*billytwowilly goes to look at the manual
06:02:08scorchei dont mind the size at all when i consider that i have a 160 gig hd in there =P
06:02:18mihalisfatherfork: you don't sayy
06:02:26fatherforkindeed
06:02:31mihalisi happen to be in the market for one
06:02:35mihalis;)
06:02:43mihalislets talk business...
06:02:43fatherforkcan you wait no more than two weeks?
06:02:50mihalisi can wait two weeks
06:02:58fatherforkI mean, I'll have it in less than two weeks
06:03:07mihalissure...
06:03:10fatherforkawesome
06:03:12mihalistake your time
06:03:29billytwowillyhmm.
06:03:30fatherforkI'm getting a macbook, and immediately upgrading the hard drive
06:03:32scorchemihalis: i would purchase one at a store or something first (so that you can return it) just to make sure that it really is the hard drive
06:03:34billytwowillyI wonder if I still have my old rockbox.
06:03:37mihalisthatll give me time for my next paycheck.. heh
06:03:42billytwowillyif I do I'll sell it to someone cheap..
06:03:44 Quit rotator ("zzzzzzzzzz")
06:03:55mihalisfatherfork: where are you located?
06:04:03*mihalis is in dallas, texas
06:04:04fatherforkscorche has a point, if it works, return it and buy it from me cheep
06:04:16*fatherfork is in Atlanta, Georgia
06:04:56mihalisi dunno scorche... i was about to upgrade anyhow..
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06:05:08mihalis15GB isn't enoguh space... mine is completely full
06:05:09sharpeAhah, Georgia. Haha. So funny...
06:05:10Irishi
06:05:13Irisjust installed rockbox
06:05:13 Quit Drkepilogue ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
06:05:18fatherforkwhy is that funny?
06:05:20sharpeIris: Yay?
06:05:24Irishow do i see my music
06:05:28Irisin the apple os
06:05:33scorchemihalis: well, with fatherfork's drive, it would be 60
06:05:49sharpeIt isn't, I'm in a very irritable mood, have a headache, tried... :) I just said it for no reason. It isn't funny at all.
06:06:03IrisCan I access my music in apple OS if i installed rockbox
06:06:08mihalisyeah... my "backup" of my drive contains everything i would LIKE to have on it, and it's under 20 GB
06:06:20sharpeIris: Yes
06:06:24scorchesharpe: what exactly did you "tried..."?
06:06:25mihalisand includes everything that is on it, plus some stuff that wont fit
06:06:27Irishow?
06:06:52fatherforkmihalis, souonds like I'll have what you need then
06:06:52scorchemihalis: well, i dont have that much music, but i also use my device and an easy and portable external hd
06:06:59sharpescorche: Eh. I... tried... hmm. I tried to not be tired, but failed.
06:07:03mihalisfatherfork: are you a regular in this channel?
06:07:09sharpeIris: Use Tagcache?
06:07:11fatherforkI seem to be now
06:07:22Iristagcache??
06:07:30sharpeIt's in the manual...
06:07:42mihalisabout what were you thinking of selling your ipod for?
06:07:56Irisi get that but cant I use the apple os in the manual its for rockbox
06:08:00scorchemihalis: he was offering a 60 gig hard drive..not a 60 gig ipod
06:08:12mihalisoh...
06:08:14sharpeIris: No, the Rockbox manual...
06:08:14mihalisgotcha
06:08:20*mihalis misunderstood
06:08:22fatherforkindeed, just a drive
06:08:30mihaliswhoa
06:08:51mihalisbig misunderstanding... i was wondering why someone would get rid of an ipod...
06:08:56fatherforkthat was the point of the whole buy it from a store so you can return it thing
06:09:00mihalisunless something was wrong with it
06:09:08Irisok
06:09:09mihalisgotcha...
06:09:11sharpeIris: Ahh. Wait. Yes. Yes you can, nevermind what I had said. I though you had asked something else.
06:09:18fatherforkyeah, me and mine are inseparable
06:09:28mihalisi was wondering why that comment was even relevant... now i undertand
06:09:32mihalisunderstand =P
06:09:39fatherforkhaha
06:09:48fatherforkyou still want it though?
06:09:50Irisand how do i play games and all that calculator and the plugins etc...
06:09:55mihalisumm... no hehe
06:10:00fatherforkah well
06:10:03fatherforkebay!
06:10:08mihalisi really think im going with the ipod
06:10:11billytwowillywoot, it appears to be closer to the karma bookmarking functionality than the ipod. score.
06:10:12fatherforkyeah
06:10:12sharpeAh, via the menu.
06:10:21billytwowillyanyone running this on a nano? how's the battery life?
06:10:47mihalisthe only downside to it, of course, is non-upgradeability
06:11:03Iris. If i install rockbox my apple os is useless right?
06:11:10scorcheIris: no
06:11:13sharpeIris: Not at all.
06:11:19Iristhen...
06:11:26fatherforkmihalis, by the time you fill it up, it'll be time to upgrade anyway
06:11:30IrisI got no notes, no contacts no music no pics
06:11:43*scorche has over 100 gigs of music
06:11:45sharpeIris: Is it the latest Apple firmware?
06:11:46fatherforkby the time you have used it for a few weeks, you'll jump on any new iPod apple releases
06:11:48*scorche glances at fatherfork
06:12:04Irisyop
06:12:08*fatherfork has a fist in scorche's face
06:12:24scorchethere is a reason i stick with my archos ;)
06:12:30sharpeThere are some issues with the latest firmware and Rockbox, specifically, not showing anything. You'll have to downgrade your firmware...
06:12:56fatherforkI only have 20 gigs of music, but a hundred or so gigs of video
06:13:25billytwowillylol
06:13:33Irishow do i downgrade
06:13:44billytwowillyI'm waiting for the terrabyte drives before I buy something that plays video.. I'd need it to hold my video collection;)
06:13:44scorchei have a few terabytes of video =)
06:13:51Irisand how do i exit this stupid space game
06:13:56fatherforkfrikk
06:14:12scorchebillytwowilly: MUCH cheaper to just get a ton of 250s and raid them
06:14:22mihalisyah... i never thought id fill up my 15 GB... nothing but music on it, and yet it's not nearly enough
06:14:25sharpeIris: You'll just have to extract the firmware from a previous installer, and then install it with the bootloader, instead of the one you extract off your iPod.
06:14:28billytwowillyscorche: how do you backup all of it? I'm trying to decide.. I've got it on a raid array now..
06:14:38billytwowillyscorche: I'm talking about for the pmp
06:14:40billytwowillyerr. pmps
06:14:45fatherforkraid redundancy
06:14:48fatherforkrocks
06:14:54scorcheindeed
06:15:01billytwowillycan be misleading though.
06:15:04mihalisi have a 120gb hard drive with music and videos... which i share on undernet ;)
06:15:06Irishow do i do that???
06:15:12billytwowillyif your raid card dies you're screwed.
06:15:14sharpei have a raid controller, which i don't use...
06:15:21fatherforkdepend on the kinf
06:15:24fatherforkkind*
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06:15:35scorchebillytwowilly: i started out burning onto dvds...that got old very fast with how much crap i have
06:15:39sharpeIris: Are you on widows?
06:15:41mihaliswell thanx for the help...
06:15:43fatherforkaren't raid 0s the most unstable?
06:15:43sharpewindows.
06:15:46Irisyes
06:15:47mihalisi'm hitting the hay
06:15:49mihalisg'nit
06:15:51mihalise
06:15:53fatherforknight
06:15:56scorchenow, i put it onto a hard drive, then stash the hard drives away
06:15:56 Quit apo` ("Leaving")
06:16:06billytwowillyscorche: I'm in that position now. I just upgraded my comp to a 1 terrabyte raid array...
06:16:07 Part mihalis
06:16:10scorchewhen i want to access those hard drives, i put them in my removable drive trays
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06:16:16billytwowillybut backing it up I'd need hundreds of dvds
06:17:06scorchebillytwowilly: basically, i raid the drives that i use on a contstant basis, and stash the drives for storage that i dont use often
06:17:17billytwowillyhmm.
06:17:20billytwowillyinteresting.
06:17:39billytwowillystill expensive though.
06:17:40billytwowillyfark.
06:17:48billytwowillyI'm a poor college student.
06:17:54scorchemuch cheaper than terabyte drives
06:17:55Irissharpe: How do i downgrade
06:18:07scorchei usually get 250s for about $50 each
06:18:13scorchenice seagates
06:18:17fatherforkwhere from?
06:18:22scorchemy connections ;)
06:18:22sharpeIris: Ah, just use ipodwizard to downgrade the firmware, which will allow you to use an older ipod updater, which you can just install rockbox after using the updater.
06:18:35Irisipodwizard?
06:18:46sharpeIris: http://ipodwizard.net/
06:19:07sharpeWhich we can't really provide support for.
06:19:08scorchehell, i got my 160 gig perpendicular laptop drive for $60 when tehy were selling on newegg at 300 each =)
06:19:22fatherforkdang
06:19:32fatherforkyou gotta hook me up
06:19:38fatherforkok, you don't gotta, but come on
06:19:41scorchewhich is why i dont care about that 32 gigs lost
06:20:00sharpeWell. I'm going to go. Headaches suck. Later everyone.
06:20:02 Quit sharpe ("Leaving")
06:21:26fatherforkI need a hitachi travelstar 7K100, can you get it?
06:22:08fatherforkif you can get me that sucker for 40 bucks, I'll double it and you can keep the extra 40
06:22:55scorchenot sure...my contact in in california atm
06:23:02scorcheand i am not
06:23:33fatherforkthey comin back soon?
06:24:09scorcheno idea...he is in a wandering stage of his life =/
06:24:15fatherforkah
06:24:16fatherforkoh well
06:24:21scorcheyeah
06:24:33scorchei need some more drives as well...
06:25:09scorcheif/when i get back in contact with him, i will let you know
06:25:09fatherforkwell if you get in contact with him, remember me
06:25:12scorchelol
06:25:16fatherforkha, awesome
06:26:19fatherforkthis is incredibly off topic, but have you (or anyone here) ever sold anything on ebay?
06:26:29scorcheyes
06:26:49scorcheif you wish to talk more, go private message...we have spammed the logs enough =)
06:26:59fatherforkindeed
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06:44:16fatherforkso in rockbox, after I release hold on my iPod, the first few key-presses don't register
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07:40:17Bg3rmorning
07:40:38JdGordonmorning
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07:42:28Bg3r;)
07:42:40Bg3rdamned thunderbird ...
07:43:33Bg3rjust realised that i've sent the .c file in the mail as text ...
07:44:10JdGordonmeh.. its ok
07:44:39Bg3r;)
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07:54:28Bg3rhm....
07:54:57JdGordonhmm?
07:55:52Bg3rwill anyone object if i make impossible to turn off the player with h300 non-lcd remote ?
07:56:05JdGordonproably.. why?
07:56:11Bg3rbecause
07:56:25JdGordondoesnt the hardware auto turn off if yu hold down off? not software?
07:56:41Bg3rit has only REW,FF, Play/Pause(used to turn on the player), Vol UP and Vol Down
07:56:58Bg3rit's fully software function on iriver hxxx
07:57:05JdGordonok
07:57:13Bg3rso
07:57:28Bg3rfor example in the wps
07:57:53Bg3ri can't see how it would be possible to go to the file tree if short play/pause is "pause" and long is "turn off"
07:58:31JdGordonhow did it used to work?
07:58:38Bg3ri have no idea :)
07:58:42JdGordonhehe
07:58:56Bg3rbut i'm with older build at the moment (~ last one before the action stuff)
07:58:57hotwire__can anyone give me a list of the current iriver lcd remote button map?
07:59:00Bg3rso i can try
07:59:13JdGordonplay+rew to go back to tree?
07:59:16Bg3rhotwire__: can u wait a bit?
07:59:31JdGordonhotwire__: firmware/export/button.h
07:59:50hotwire__how does 8 hours sound? I went to the pub tonight... fill in the rest
08:00
08:00:04JdGordonhehe
08:00:54hotwire__JdGordon... I was looking more in terms of the physical locations. If i do I mapping on the keyboard for the remote buttons, i'd like it to roughly resemble the real thing... I don't have an iriver to base from.
08:01:03JdGordonoh
08:01:06JdGordonrighto
08:01:19JdGordonthere should be pics in the wiki?
08:01:40hotwire__i had made a posting a few hours ago (maybe 5 hours), about how to lay out the keys
08:01:48hotwire__could you tell me where in the wiki?
08:02:12hotwire__as stated, unfamiliarity with the iriver ports has me at a disadvantage.
08:02:17Bg3rJdGordon: ah, yes, that is idea, hmmm...
08:02:39Bg3r(play + rew)
08:02:50JdGordonhotwire__: i dunno.... i can only tell yo the h100 lcd remote
08:03:23hotwire__2 pints of one beer, 1 pint of another... one black velvet (guiness and strongbow, layered), and an irish carbomb.
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08:03:36JdGordonsounds like fun
08:04:03scorchei am of the opinion that irish carbombs can only be drunk on st. pattys day
08:05:17JdGordonBg3r: you can close 5830 once you fix the remote buttons please?
08:05:21Bg3rhttp://www.barnonedrinks.com/recipes/shooters/t/thetrueirishcarbomb.html
08:05:34Bg3rJdGordon: okies
08:06:45Bg3rJdGordon: btw, what should be changed so when exiting from the settings stuff with left to be "accept" and not "cancel"
08:07:12JdGordonchange it from ACTION_STD_CANCEL to _OK
08:07:18Bg3rwhere ?
08:07:23JdGordonwe have agreed to go that way have we?
08:07:30JdGordonin the list context
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08:07:47Bg3risn't that also used by the file browser and menu tree ...
08:08:01Bg3rso it won't go "up" anymore with left ?
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08:09:02hotwire_from the UISims, it looks like the models with an LCD remote have the same model of lcd remote
08:09:13JdGordonno, the tre context is sepearte... the h100 keymap file is terrible :p
08:09:20Bg3rJdGordon: yep
08:09:25Bg3r:D
08:09:44Bg3ri immediately get a headache when i look into it :D
08:09:48JdGordonhaha
08:10:27*JdGordon bbl
08:10:38Bg3rJdGordon: so, u want to tell me that menus and tree use CONTEXT_TREE ?
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08:10:51hotwire_well, i'm gonna log off for a few hours to get that sleep i was talking about.
08:10:53Paul_The_NerdY'know, it's nice to see 0-score builds again
08:10:54hotwire_good night all.
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08:32:31amiconnAnyone with an ipod already noticed that using the wheel doesn't update the 'last user activity' variable?
08:33:08Bagdersandisk info receive, arm jtag adventure should be able to move to next stage
08:33:18BagderreceiveD
08:33:18amiconnI've had my mini switch off several times while playing sudoku, even though I scrolled back & forth more or less constantly...
08:33:20Bg3rBagder: what info ?:)
08:33:44BagderBg3r: about their jtag setup and how they power the board when they jtag it
08:35:03Bagdernow we should be able to connect the jtag and run for it
08:35:27Bg3rvery good news, indeed
08:35:48Paul_The_Nerdamiconn: Is that perhaps why I can't seem to wake the backlight with the wheel? I have to press a button, and THEN scroll for volume it seems.
08:36:09Bagderand in the meantime, MrH has done some really fine lcd research for the H10 port
08:36:10amiconnWaking the backlight with the wheel works for me
08:36:25amiconnThat's why I was scrolling so much in sudoku...
08:36:55amiconnPaul_The_Nerd: Maybe you have "first keypress enables backlight only" enabled?
08:37:22Paul_The_Nerdamiconn: Oh, I definitely have that enabled, because my settings got cleared. I had assumed that the scrollwheel would count as a keypress after a certain distance, or something.
08:37:35amiconnThen using the wheel obviously doesn't count as keypress when backlight is off
08:37:40Paul_The_NerdThat's frustrating.
08:37:51amiconnTwo odd bugs wrt wheel...
08:38:06*amiconn still doesn't like the wheel
08:38:40Paul_The_NerdI just never got along with touch-sensitive surfaces.
08:38:48Paul_The_NerdLaptop touchpads hate me.
08:39:19amiconnTouchpads are ok-ish for me because of the space constraints. Still better than those trackpoints
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08:39:40Paul_The_NerdThe problem I have is that half the time I touch them, and they don't respond to me, or they're very jumpy.
08:40:02amiconnI sometimes have the same problem, also with the ipod wheel
08:40:10amiconnI touch it and nothing happens...
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08:40:33Paul_The_NerdOf course *now* the iPod wheel is waking the backlight for me.
08:40:44Bagdermorning LinusN
08:40:51LinusNmoo
08:40:54BagderLinusN: seen the sansa mail?
08:41:00LinusNyes
08:41:04amiconnm00
08:41:12Bg3ramiconn, Paul_The_Nerd so this "first keypress enables backlight only" should be off for ipods by default ?
08:41:29amiconnBg3r: No, but the wheel should count as keypress...
08:41:35Paul_The_Nerdamiconn: I think it does.
08:41:41Paul_The_NerdI think my wheel just wasn't picking up my scrolls earlier today
08:41:48Paul_The_NerdIt's working fine now that I'm home.
08:41:49amiconn...both for waking the backlight _and_ resetting the poweroff timeout
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08:42:53Bg3raha
08:42:57amiconnOn a related matter, while sudoku saves state when quitting, it does not do so when the poweroff timeout hits while being in there
08:43:15Bagderamiconn: that's to teach you solve the puzzles faster! ;-P
08:43:21amiconnI guess that's the case with several other plugins as well which usually save state
08:43:54amiconnI also think a lot more plugins should disable the backlight timeout while they run
08:44:24amiconnIncluding, but not limited to: sudoku, chessbox, doom
08:44:39JdGordon<Bg3r> JdGordon: so, u want to tell me that menus and tree use CONTEXT_TREE ?<- no, but both contexts return the same list for iriver
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08:44:58Bg3ramiconn: disable or set to a bigger timeout (like 1-2 min) ?
08:45:07amiconnDisable
08:45:42amiconnThe longest available timeout is 90 seconds, and I would expect a user to run a plugin on purpose
08:45:57Bg3rprobably
08:46:15Bg3rbut
08:46:20amiconnNote: _not_ all plugins should do this, only ones with graphical interaction
08:46:21Bg3rwhat if someone calls u ?
08:46:54BagderI agree, sudoku and jeweles etc probably should just have a very long timeout
08:47:04Bagdernot entirely disabled
08:47:09Bg3ryep
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08:48:40JdGordonhttp://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=5881.0 <- that looks cool!
08:48:45Bg3rBagder: did you send the e-mail to the mailing list ? i guess u didn't
08:48:54Bagderno I didn't
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08:49:15BagderI'm mailing back and forth quite a lot with the guy and I only occationally show them
08:50:08Paul_The_NerdWow, I'm getting about 35 fps with the 16x9 Elephants Dream movie on my Nano now.
08:50:16*Bagder faints
08:50:44Paul_The_NerdAt least on Nano, the speeds are going to be more than acceptable it seems.
08:51:05Paul_The_NerdSo, Sandisk is turning out to be moderately helpful then?
08:51:24Bagdermoderately, yes, about things that they are in complete control over
08:51:30Bagderie not source code
08:51:38Bagderor cpu details
08:51:40Paul_The_NerdWell, that was pretty much expected anyway.
08:51:45Bagderyeah
08:51:52Paul_The_NerdI kinda wish Portalplayer would've at least been polite enough to reject me.
08:51:59Bagderwith luck, we can suck out some goodies using jtag
08:52:47Paul_The_NerdY'know, I don't think I've heard heard "suck out some goodies" be used in a hardware context.
08:53:09Bagder:-)
08:53:24Bagderyou need to imagine a harsh sweeedish accent on that too ;-)
08:53:34Paul_The_NerdHahaha
08:53:54Paul_The_NerdSwedish accents make everything better.
08:54:02Bagderbork bork bork
08:55:00Paul_The_NerdI actually have a videogame that gives "Bork Bork" as a language option.
08:55:19Zagordoesn't google too?
08:55:25Paul_The_NerdGoogle does as well, yes.
08:59:25amiconnJdGordon: My opinion: The 2-line approach wastes too much screen space and the one-line approach doesn't work well on small screens (and very bad on charcell)
08:59:56amiconnThe recording trigger uses a similar layout as this one-line approach, and imho it's ugly...
09:00
09:00:28LinusNi like the 2-line approach, but i would like to skip the edit state on the booleans
09:00:43LinusNa single right-click to toggle would be enough imho
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09:03:25Paul_The_NerdJust aesthetically, I like the way the two-line method looks.
09:03:50amiconnWay too much empty screen space...
09:04:05amiconnI'd rather keep the settings a separate screen
09:04:58amiconnIf we want to show the current value of a setting without entering it, we could perhaps use some kind of pop-up "bubble" (framed box) that appears next to the selected line
09:05:37Paul_The_NerdWe should probably just leave it as it is now.
09:05:40amiconnMy mobile phone does it this way, and it looks way better than a list with more spaces than text imho
09:05:55Paul_The_NerdWith viewports some more options will open up anyway.
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09:12:40***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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09:18:19GnelikWho knows how work with Sansa going there is no news for a week
09:18:22Gnelik???
09:18:43Paul_The_NerdGnelik: When there's news, there will be news.
09:18:52BagderGnelik: feel free to make things happen
09:18:57Bagderlike fixing the sim
09:19:17BagderGnelik: we hope to test drive the jtag on it soonish
09:21:11Bagderand
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09:21:28Bagderwe still haven't had anyone test a mi4 with full length plain data
09:21:43Paul_The_NerdFull length plain data?
09:22:04Bagderyeah, the mi4 has a counter for "amount of unencrypted data"
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09:22:18Bagderthe idea that perhaps we can set that to the full file size
09:22:32Bagderand skip the TEA encryption
09:22:49Bagdermi4code can set that length field
09:23:16Bagderno encryption and a fake signature would be great ;-)
09:23:25Paul_The_NerdThat almost sounds too easy
09:23:40Bagderyeah, but the dummy dsa sig worked...
09:27:37Bagderarmu-ice certainly doesn't do much of noise on the net
09:27:58BagderSanDisk quote: "Our dev team use multi-ice or ARMU-ice"
09:28:39Bagderhttp://www.kaise.com.tw/studio/product/ice/armub_ice/armub_ice.php
09:29:10Paul_The_NerdHehehe
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09:30:21Bg3rBagder: u understand all of the page, yep ? :)
09:30:29Bagderoh yes of course
09:30:31Bagder;-)
09:30:42Bagdertry their front page
09:31:03 Quit petur ("worrrk")
09:31:07Bagdermy guess is they focus on asian customers ;-)
09:32:29Bg3rhttp://www.kaise.com/NEWWebpage2/english.htm ?
09:32:52Bg3rnothing interesting here :)
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09:43:46webguest85In english.lang, I read: If you want to remove a string, just blank it, don't actually remove it! And further: If you re-order things or remove entries, you must bump... Does it still hold?
09:46:39amiconnyes
09:48:56amiconnAnd you should refrain from bumping the language version. This should be a very rare operation, since it also breaks voice files
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09:50:08webguest85amiconn: so the old entries that are no more needed should be retained as a dead ballast?
09:50:36amiconnThe strings should be set to empty (""). Then they will take up a single byte in th e.lng
09:51:24amiconnUnused voice entries should of course also be set to empty
09:51:25webguest85What about Id?
09:51:56amiconnThe ID has to stay unique
09:52:43amiconnIirc you can set it to something else, e.g. LANG_BLAH could become LANG_BLAH_UNUSED
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09:53:34amiconnThis *should* make the matching entries from other .lang files no longer match, so they're also not used anymore
09:53:39webguest85Is there a standard comment for unused items, e.g. "made obsolete by patch XYZ (FS#xxxx)"?
09:53:50amiconnThis may break the uplang script though, so better keep the ID as-is
09:54:12amiconnthe standard comment is "DEPRECATED"
09:54:44webguest85Without telling why/since when?
09:54:46amiconnuplang can detect this iirc (Bagder?)
09:55:00amiconnYou can see why/when in the cvs history
09:55:13webguest85Ok
09:56:44webguest85Another point (it has been discussed here of in forums recently): the stop button acts as 'Stop' on press, not on release. Are there plans to change that?
09:58:26amiconnwhy?
09:58:46midgey34I just added a patch to the tracker that changes some plugins I mentioned a few days ago to use the menu API
09:58:49midgey34http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/5839
09:59:03amiconnTriggering on press is always preferred, but of course it's only possible if the button has no dual function
09:59:04aliaskwebguest85: JdGordon said he's working on it atm
09:59:18Slasheriwebguest85: yes, it seems stop has been broken once again
09:59:38Slasherithis was probably the 4th or 5th time :D
10:00
10:00:01Paul_The_NerdThere are complaints of setting the time/date not working
10:00:56webguest85The reason I ask is: how can we tell the pressing of stop from holding stop down (which leads to shut down)?
10:02:46amiconnThe question is why?
10:03:11LinusNwhy should it not stop the music when you turn off?
10:03:53amiconnLinusN: Hehe, to save battery? ;) Playing w/o being powered...
10:04:11*linuxstb would welcome suggestions for a "real" video to encode as mpegplayer test files
10:05:14webguest85I want to know what screen was active just before shut down (e.g. radio). With the current logic, this will always be file browser.
10:05:36Paul_The_Nerdlinuxstb: Night of the Living Dead was released into the public domain, thought it's black and white.
10:06:45LinusNwebguest85: and why do you want that?
10:06:45linuxstbPaul_The_Nerd: Yes, www.archive.org has a lot of black and white movies - not good tests... But they do also have some colour movies, so I'll just need to keep searching...
10:06:48Zagorwebguest85: press is sent immediately, hold slightly later
10:07:11linuxstbI guess to resume to that screen on boot?
10:07:18LinusNaha
10:07:28webguest85linuxstb: yes
10:07:29linuxstbWhich I think could be nice.
10:07:47webguest85linuxstb: see patch 5049
10:07:53Paul_The_Nerdlinuxstb: Out of curiosity, what about Elephants Dream or whatever makes it a bad test?
10:08:10LinusNmaybe it's a good idea to turn the screen display into a state machine?
10:08:20LinusNshouldn't be *that* hard
10:08:39linuxstbPaul_The_Nerd: It's too digital - i.e. very easy for the encoder to encode at low bitrates.
10:09:27linuxstbmpegplayer performance is very dependent on the bitrate - you can easily increase the fps by lowering the bitrate. The question I want to answer is what bitrate should we aim to make mpegplayer support.
10:09:49*markun bought a iriver T30 last night
10:10:00markunbut the rockbox port will have to wait a bit :)
10:10:07*linuxstb was considering a T30....
10:10:07zempeg is optimized for "real" images isn't it?
10:10:13webguest85LinusN: I think that would make RB structure clearer. I don't know RB well though.
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10:10:28zesorry if i'm naive for jumping in in the middle, but ya know
10:10:38zetypically video encoding schemes do lousy at "digital" sorts of images
10:10:53zeunless they're specifically made for it
10:10:54linuxstbze: I would assume so. But some source material is easier to encode than others. So we need to find out what bitrate gives reasonable quality for most source files.
10:10:57markunlinuxstb: it is used, but I payed only EUR 45 (for the 1GB version)
10:11:25linuxstbmarkun: Can you drag-and-drop files via USB?
10:11:30zewell yeah
10:11:35markunyes
10:11:48zejust don't assume that because it should be easy to encode in theory, that it's easy to encode for a particular codec
10:11:55markunYou can choose to update it with a UMS or MTP firmware
10:11:57zeclipart type things are very easy to encode for say gzip
10:12:00webguest85LinusN: so there's no chance to correctly detect the screen before shut down without further time and thread related tricks?
10:12:03zeand difficult to encode for jpeg
10:12:29LinusNwebguest85: or move the stop action to stop+rel
10:13:01zebut yeah i guess a representative "normal" source type of thing is generally what you wanna use as a model
10:13:25zewhich means i just jumped in to pick nits :p
10:14:12webguest85LinusN: what's that stop+rel?
10:14:27LinusNsorry, BUTTON_OFF|BUTTON_REL
10:14:44Bg3rwebguest85: what target ?
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10:15:55webguest85Bg3r: iriver H1xx
10:16:52webguest85LinusN: that would mean stop fires on release, not on press?
10:17:00LinusNyes
10:17:38webguest85LinusN: is only one place in code to change? Or is that definition in many places?
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10:18:05Bg3rwebguest85: one place
10:18:15LinusNwebguest85: apps/keymaps/keymap-h1xx_h3xx.c
10:18:16Bg3rapps/keymaps/keymap-h1x0_h3x0.c
10:18:20LinusN:-)
10:18:26Bg3rbeaten :)
10:18:48linuxstbmarkun: One problem with respect to porting Rockbox to the T30 is that there doesn't seem to be any failsafes against installing a bad firmware - so even though the encryption has been cracked, running our own test code will be tricky. People who have modified the images in the T30 firmware have managed to brick their players.
10:20:07Bagderthat's a tricky situation
10:20:10Bg3rwebguest85: what do you complain about btw ? stop in filetree ?
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10:20:54webguest85Bg3r, LinusN: so if I'd do it, the change would be platform specific, right? Is it good?
10:21:00markunlinuxstb: perhaps the way tomazs did it (change WMA player into a bootloader)
10:21:13Bg3rwebguest85: i'm currently working on this file
10:21:15webguest85Bg3r: stop in radio, recording and WPS
10:21:22Bg3rand yes, platform specific
10:21:34Bagdermarkun: yeah the gmini400 also seem to exploit an avi overflow to start code
10:21:34Bg3rwebguest85: strange... in the wps it should work ok
10:22:04webguest85Bg3r: sorry, didn't tries WPS recently
10:22:15Bg3rwebguest85: try it
10:22:41LinusNthe problem is that reacting on key release makes the interface feel sluggish
10:22:53webguest85Bg3r: I can't atm. But if you say it works then I take it for granted :-)
10:22:57linuxstbOne odd thing about the T30 is that the ARM code in the firmware image is big-endian...
10:23:06Bagderuuu
10:23:09Bg3rwebguest85: don't take it for granted
10:23:12markunyes, that is strange
10:23:13Bg3r:P
10:23:13Bagderwell arm can be set big-endian...
10:23:16Bagderjust very unusual
10:23:46webguest85LinusN: yes, that's a dilemma :-(
10:23:55Bagderpossibly they use some big-endian chips or memory-related stuff which made the opt for big-endian all the way
10:26:23LinusNso, how about making the screen display use a state variable instead?
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10:26:50LinusNit would help flatten out the ui, and allow for more flexible screen transitions
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10:27:05BagderLinusN: makes sense
10:27:39LinusNso the main loop would simply switch on the state variable and call the appropriate screen function
10:27:40Bagderthen all screens would need ->enter and ->leave functions and then we could jump around between them in any manner
10:27:45webguest85LinusN: I tried it. I added tracking code to radio_screen() and recording_screen(). But I can't figure out where should I track playback start/stop.
10:28:08LinusNtracking?
10:28:40BagderLinusN: so I vote for a little 'struct screen' with function pointers for the enter/exit functions and one main switch to go between the states
10:29:24webguest85LinusN: yes, a have a variable that tells which screen is active now. It's set to 'RADIO' at the start of radio_screen() and is restored just before return −− as an example.
10:29:40LinusNrestored to what?
10:30:12webguest85LinusN: to the value it had before entering radio_screen.
10:30:28LinusNi suggest a set_screen() function that sets the state variable to the screen to be displayed
10:30:53LinusNand the main loop enters that screen
10:31:01Bagderyeps
10:31:10Bagderor perhaps goto_screen()
10:31:33webguest85LinusN: that wouldn't solve the problem. You press and hold stop. The screen changes from radio to file browser (or whatever) −− and the info is lost.
10:31:42LinusNgoto_screen() might not be a good name, since it won't actually go to that screen until you return to the main loop
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10:32:05LinusNwebguest85: you are correct, i'm not trying to solve your specific problem here
10:32:08BagderLinusN: no, but you request a goto to that screen
10:32:27Bagderanyway, the exact name is not important
10:32:39Paul_The_Nerdwebguest85: But then with "resume on startup" enabled, the state of the previous non-filetree screen could be stored.
10:32:53Paul_The_NerdSo, instead of just resuming a playlist, it could remember that it was Radio or Recording instead.
10:32:57Bagderindeed
10:32:58Paul_The_NerdAnd resume one of those.
10:33:00LinusNPaul_The_Nerd: but how do you resume to the file tree then?
10:33:07Paul_The_NerdDisable "Resume on startup"
10:33:21LinusNfair enough
10:33:51Bagderor shutdown the player while showing the file tree
10:33:51webguest85LinusN: no, I want to have the screen I had before shut down. Even if it was file browser.
10:34:21Paul_The_NerdBagder: Well, the problem with that is that with "Stop" being an on-press action, pressing and holding it displays filetree before shutting down
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10:34:22LinusNthat could be solved in two ways:
10:34:33LinusN1) use the release event
10:34:37BagderPaul_The_Nerd: ah right
10:34:54webguest85Paul_The_Nerd: this is exactly I'm talking about
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10:35:25LinusN2) handle it in the tree code by checking if sys_poweroff is the first event after returning from a screen
10:35:36*Paul_The_Nerd likes #2
10:35:53Bagderyeah, #2 is probably the way
10:35:58Bagdereven though slightly more hackish
10:36:09LinusNthe problem is that sys_poweroff might be preceded by a BUTTON_OFF|BUTTON_REPEAT
10:36:10Paul_The_NerdJust because I fear someone pressing stop, seeing it not leave the playback screen, holding it a few seconds thinking the UI is sluggish, and shutting down, and filing a bug report about stop not working.
10:36:27Zagorwon't the tree be displayed anyway, since there is a delay before the poweroff event is sent?
10:36:46BagderZagor: shown yes, but it wouldn't have to be stored as the "last screen shown"
10:37:18Bagdersince the guy actually pressed STOP to shutdown in another screen
10:37:22Zagorcould be quite confusing though
10:37:26Bagderyes I agree
10:37:30Paul_The_NerdHow 'bout this:
10:37:32LinusNbtw, i think the file browser would be just another screen
10:37:33Paul_The_NerdStop stops the music
10:37:40BagderLinusN: yes
10:37:40Paul_The_NerdOn RELEASE of Stop, it sets the active screen to filetree?
10:37:48Bagdernow there's a thought
10:37:51LinusNand all screens return to the main loop
10:38:05LinusNPaul_The_Nerd: good idea
10:38:06Paul_The_NerdThat way stop is instantaneous, setting of the screen is not, but the user doesn't know about that anyway.
10:38:11BagderLinusN: yes it would be a flat system with "equal" screens
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10:38:17ZagorPaul_The_Nerd: sounds good
10:38:21Bagderfile tree being one of the screens
10:38:34LinusNthat opens up the possibility of making the wps the "main" screen for those who want that
10:38:39Bagderyeps
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10:38:44LinusN(yuck)
10:38:54Bagderexcept that we can't currently show it without music
10:39:01LinusNthat's easy to fix
10:39:05BagderI know
10:39:14LinusNrockbox 1.0 did that iirc
10:39:35LinusNand it was struck down b y people complaining that it didn'
10:39:38Bagder1.0 didn't work on my device ;-)
10:39:42LinusNt return to the file browser
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10:39:53LinusNthose were the days
10:40:15 Part midgey34
10:40:21webguest85LinusN: "that opens up the possibility of making the wps the "main" screen" −− are you kidding? :-)))
10:40:31LinusN;-)
10:41:18LinusNthis goes along the lines of the old ui discussion by peter favrholt in the wiki
10:41:21firenxwhat version is rockbox at now?
10:41:29LinusNfirenx: 2.5
10:41:38firenxcool.. i love it
10:41:41Bagderwell, versions don't really apply to rockbox anymore
10:41:48firenxcant wait till it plays vids too :)
10:41:50Bagderwe've outgrown version numbers
10:41:55Bagderwe're in the future
10:42:06LinusNfirenx: it does
10:42:15LinusNwithout sound, though
10:42:16webguest85LinusN: on a more serious note: I see that a solution exists but I'm not familiar enough with RB to do that.
10:42:20firenxwell yeah
10:42:25Paul_The_NerdNext time someone asks the version number, respond something like "Q" or "-13"
10:42:30LinusN42
10:42:35Paul_The_NerdOr "i"
10:42:36firenxlol
10:42:37Bagder20060818
10:42:49firenxcvs
10:42:56flux__bagder, that's hardly imaginative!
10:42:56Bagder20060818-0842
10:43:02LinusNwebguest85: i understand
10:43:03flux__and not very misleading
10:43:08Bagderno, but the version string we actually provide
10:43:13linuxstbBagder: Isn't that the compile time?
10:43:24LinusNwebguest85: you should be able to implement Paul_The_Nerd's solution though
10:43:25Bagderyes, but the dailies say that in the version string
10:43:34firenxso is there any good sites to get games for rockbox? some of the ones it came with are sweet, way better than the ones that came with ipodlinux
10:43:56linuxstbfirenx: Anything good is assimilated into the official builds.
10:44:24LinusNassimilate or die!
10:44:25webguest85Bagder: that makes 20059976
10:44:41LinusNwebguest85: :-P
10:44:46firenxlinuxstb: ok
10:44:48linuxstbfirenx: it's hard for someone to publish and maintain binaries for all the different Rockbox targets - so people don't bother trying, they just submit their code for inclusion in CVS.
10:45:01firenxok.. that makes sense
10:45:06firenxso its pretty much got everything then
10:45:14LinusNand then we let it rot in the tracker until nobody cares anymore
10:45:19LinusN:-)
10:45:23firenxhaha
10:45:34firenxi got the jbuild running with that sweet theme (forget what its called)
10:46:13firenxone thing that i really like about rockbox is how i dont have to have my music in that stupid itunes database format!
10:46:19Chipacahi all
10:46:26firenxwhat is the processor in the 5g
10:46:45coobPP502x
10:46:48linuxstbA PortalPlayer PP5021 - it contains two arm7tdmi cores.
10:46:49Chipacais the "archos recorder" supported by rockbox the same as "archos av400"?
10:46:54coobwhich has two arm7tdmi cores
10:46:58BagderChipaca: no
10:47:00coobbleh
10:47:05*coob pummels linuxstb
10:47:08firenxhm ok that means nothing to me haha
10:47:14Chipacarats
10:47:29firenxumm.. how about how fast is it?
10:47:36BagderChipaca: but please go ahead and port it to the av400 ;-)
10:47:48Paul_The_Nerdfirenx: Faster than a calculator, and slower than your desktop. :-P
10:47:51linuxstbWhhhoooooooosh <- That fast
10:47:52Bagderfirenx: 75mhz x 2 ARM7
10:47:57ChipacaBagder: I'm trying to find a player to buy on which I can run rockbox, but I can't spend too much cash on it :-/
10:47:58firenxok cool..
10:48:08coobscalable
10:48:11firenxit runs sweet on my ipod video
10:48:15LinusNChipaca: iaudio x5?
10:48:40webguest85LinusN: you mean stop on press, screen change on release? Ok, I'll try.
10:48:45*LinusN is paid by cowon to say that everytime someone asks
10:49:04Bagderyou need to show the banner too to get paid!
10:49:17LinusNdammit, that's why i never got any money
10:49:35ChipacaLinusN: that is over my price, unfortunately
10:49:40Paul_The_NerdChipaca: "can't spend too much" doesn't tell us how much cash that is, nor how much storage you're hoping for. :-P
10:50:00Chipacatoo much cash is anything over 40 gbp
10:50:07Bagderwow
10:50:09LinusNmost rockboxable players are in the higher price range
10:50:12Chipacastorage: anything over a gig is good
10:50:24Bagderso go ebaying for old archos players
10:50:33Zagorperhaps you can get a small ipod nano for that?
10:50:37ChipacaLinusN: I know :(
10:50:40Paul_The_NerdChipaca: Ebay the 1gb iPod nano?
10:50:44linuxstbThe 1GB Nano is 100UKP IIRC.
10:50:54coobless with educational discount :D
10:50:55linuxstb(or GBP)
10:51:05Bagderand less when used
10:51:16coobalso scratched++ when used
10:51:21Bagderhaha
10:51:29Bagderwell rockbox works even on scratched ones
10:51:31BagderI think
10:51:35linuxstbThat's the problem with video - I'm now noticing all my scratches....
10:51:57crwlnew iriver h120's cost about 100 GBP or so from ebay :P
10:52:23theli_uabtw, how is X5 port now? does it perform well? is it better/worse then on other targets?
10:52:47Bagderit performs pretty good
10:52:47 Part webguest85
10:53:10Bagderit is probably a pcf driver from overtaking the OF in runtime
10:53:16Bagdera pcf driver away I mean
10:53:43Paul_The_NerdI'd say it's probably better for music playback than the iPods, but lacks a few things like proper remote support still.
10:53:54 Join Seasor [0] (n=Seaser@p54BDEE16.dip.t-dialin.net)
10:54:00aliaskThen again, iPods don't support remotes at all...
10:54:16linuxstbipods do, Rockbox doesn't...
10:54:37aliaskYes, sorry, that's what I meant... :)
10:54:50linuxstbAnd I meant Rockbox on the ipods...
10:55:12Chipacahttp://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Brand-New-Boxed-iPod-NANO-Design-1gb-MP3-4-Player-LCD_W0QQitemZ170019572473QQihZ007QQcategoryZ73839QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
10:55:17Chipacaoops
10:55:26linuxstb"ipod nano design" - probably not a Nano...
10:55:28Chipacaumm... well, I could now post the tinyurl too
10:55:30Chipaca:-/
10:55:56aliask"We also have this model in Green and Orange too"
10:56:15Paul_The_NerdHehehe
10:56:20Bg3rhaha what if it's 1:1 nano ? :)
10:56:39Bg3rcopied schematics etc
10:56:47linuxstb"perfect sound quality" :)
10:56:49Chipacaaliask: yeah, that is strange, no?
10:57:03aliaskAll the specifications are wrong too, it's almost definitely a fake.
10:57:31linuxstbChipaca: That's 100% definitely not a Nano. ipods don't have FM tuners, MP1/MP2 playback, WMA, WMV, etc etc
10:57:36Chipaca"ipod nano design"
10:57:37tucozlinuxstb, I doubt this move is very good. But it's available as a free download at least (not sure about the licence though). http://www.panicstruckpro.com/revelations/
10:57:41Chipacawhatever thta means
10:57:50tucoztoo bad charade was removed from archive.org
10:59:26Chipacare the iriver h100, there are none on ebay
10:59:53Bg3rthey are ... priceless :)
11:00
11:00:04Chipacaah
11:00:06tucozChipaca, maybe a h120 or a h140 then?
11:00:14linuxstbIt's not called the h100 - try searching for h120, h140 or (I think) ihp-120, ihp-140
11:00:21Chipacaah! :)
11:00:23*Chipaca is clueless
11:00:30pondlifeLinusN: I've fixed some more voice stuff, largely reverting some earlier changes (caused by me not understanding the memory layout properly). Update is at http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/5844 if you want it.
11:01:03linuxstbChipaca: 120 is the 20GB model, 140 is the 40GB model. The 140 is slightly bigger physically, but that's the only difference.
11:01:26LinusNi would buy this, but only because i know how to repair it: http://cgi.ebay.com/iRiver-iHP-120-MP3-Player-As-Is_W0QQitemZ280018515486QQihZ018QQcategoryZ48683QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
11:02:31linuxstbLinusN: What do you think the problem is? Just a loose connection or something more?
11:02:39linuxstb(or are you not telling and will bid for it...)
11:02:40firenxcan i mount my ipox in rockbox?
11:02:51Paul_The_NerdLinusN: "and has only one dent on the top left corner." <−− dropped?
11:02:52LinusNit's probably the old usb daughterboard connection problem
11:03:01tucozhehe, "...and you cannot access the songs. I'm not sure if this is fixable, but the player works great other then this problem."
11:03:10LinusNhaha
11:03:13linuxstbAn expensive radio then...
11:03:31Bg3rhttp://cgi.ebay.com/BRAND-NEW-IRIVER-H140-iHP-140-NO-RESERVE_W0QQitemZ180018733611QQihZ008QQcategoryZ48683QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem <= haha
11:03:36Paul_The_Nerdlinuxstb: I don't imagine you could get to the radio screen...
11:03:48tucoz$20 is not that bad for a radio, I would say
11:04:18pondlifeLinusN: And I found out that it was tagtree.c that was updating audiobuf without using buffer_alloc. Hence http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/5845
11:04:19LinusNBg3r: for sale - broken caps-lock key
11:04:22linuxstbPaul_The_Nerd: You're probably right. I've no idea what the iriver firmware would do in that case.
11:04:34Paul_The_Nerdlinuxstb: The iRiver firmware doesn't boot if the disk isn't readable, I believe.
11:04:44LinusNit does
11:04:52LinusNit just says Files: 0000 etc
11:06:12Paul_The_NerdAah
11:06:14Bg3rLinusN: so it's not probably a dead HDD ?
11:06:21aliaskYeah, happened to mine infrequently in OF.
11:06:26dan_aYou guys are tempting me to buy a broken, repairable iRiver now :(
11:06:40LinusNBg3r: could be, but the usb daughterboard problem is very common
11:06:41*Paul_The_Nerd is tempted to as well, and then have a spare.
11:07:04Paul_The_NerdActually if I were going to buy a second, it's be of the H140 family, preferably not a D
11:07:06Bg3rfor this price ...
11:07:14Bagdernow now don't ruin LinusN's business idea ;-)
11:07:31pondlifeHmm, if only we all had more time...
11:07:38LinusNi have bought a few broken h100's on ebay, repaied the usb board and then sold again
11:07:42scorchehmmmm....i am thinking about this one just to nab the USB 2.0 compatibility
11:07:52scorchestill that cheap at a bit more than a day left
11:07:54scorchehttp://cgi.ebay.com/ARCHOS-JUKEBOX-RECORDER-20-20GB-MP3-PLAYER-RECORDER_W0QQitemZ260021681733QQihZ016QQcategoryZ114620QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
11:07:55dan_aPaul_The_Nerd: Did you see my PM on the forums?
11:07:59Bg3rFeedback:100% Positive
11:08:10preglowLinusN: how do you repair it
11:08:11preglow?
11:08:35LinusNi remove the usb board, and solder the usb daughterboard connector back again
11:08:44Paul_The_Nerddan_a: No... I have no idea how I missed it.
11:08:46LinusNtakes some soldering skills
11:09:02Paul_The_Nerddan_a: Done
11:09:21dan_aPaul_The_Nerd: Thank you!
11:09:46Paul_The_NerdSorry 'bout the delay. And pardon our dust, since you can see all the clutter now.
11:10:28LinusNmaybe i should put up a usb resoldering tutorial in the wiki
11:10:58Chipacaoh well, I guess I'll not be getting myself player yet, then
11:11:03Chipacathank you all
11:11:05*Chipaca waves
11:11:06 Part Chipaca
11:11:16Bg3rLinusN: don't do it :)
11:11:29Bg3rit'll raise the price of such units :D
11:11:34 Part Seasor
11:11:35LinusNhaha, true
11:12:43***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
11:13:25 Join Mancer [0] (n=Mancer@dsl-202-173-137-229.sa.westnet.com.au)
11:14:08*linuxstb spots a stats-boosting language file commit from LinusN...
11:15:11Bagderhahaha
11:15:18aliaskStats?
11:16:43LinusNlinuxstb: damn, i forgot to commit them one by one :-)
11:16:57Bagderaliask: we counted commits-per-person the other day
11:17:10BagderLinusN: with my way of counting it makes no difference
11:17:17aliaskAh, I see
11:17:50LinusNBagder: but mikachus way is better for me :-)
11:17:57preglowanyone know what this CODIC math being talked about on the wma flyspray page is?
11:18:05BagderI didn't see his results
11:18:07LinusNi assume he means cordic
11:18:11Bagderdid he get the entire history?
11:18:13preglowwhy'd we need that in wma?
11:18:23preglowyou usually get away with table lookups when doing codecs
11:18:49theli_ualinuxstb, have you tried last zxbox patch?
11:19:07Bagderpreglow: when it comes to wma, I think there's too little knowledge and too much speculations
11:19:10*Paul_The_Nerd is just happy to see the build table moving to a nice, solid green again.
11:19:28LinusNit looks like my prediction comes true regarding the wma codec
11:19:47Bagderyeps
11:19:48aliaskHaha
11:19:51Bagderwe just don't see it happen
11:20:09preglowBagder: probably
11:20:12LinusNmuch talk and no code
11:20:14Bagderthose claimed wma hackers aren't team players
11:20:36LinusNwma isn't exactly the team-player codec either :-)
11:20:45Bagderhehe
11:21:07Bagder"one man in a closet for a year is better than 100 eager skilled rockbox devs"
11:21:16 Join mirak_ [0] (n=53722efd@labb.contactor.se)
11:21:56pondlifeLinusN: did you see my comment above, or are you still sore about the last oops? ;-)
11:22:32LinusNhehe, i saw it
11:22:41pondlifeThis fixes some crashes using multiple codecs and also changing config settings
11:23:01pondlifeI've just put the positioning of filebuf and the voice file back to where they were
11:23:21pondlifeAm getting some other users to test for me from the ML
11:23:27pondlife(hopefully)
11:23:44LinusNi vote for giving pondlife cvs access
11:24:00pondlifeHmm, I'm not sure about that...
11:24:07pondlifeI'd fear it
11:24:24 Join Funky [0] (n=jack@89.240.215.74)
11:24:49Paul_The_NerdWe've had daily builds that don't play music before. You can't do worse than breaking the primary purpose for 24 hours for most people. ;)
11:24:54Bagderfear can be good ;-)
11:25:14pondlifeI could break it all and go on holiday with marsdaddy?
11:25:20Bagderhahaha
11:25:35Funkyive installed rockbox but i get a error is there a way of patching that up without redoing the whole instalition
11:25:41linuxstbpreglow: I'm surprised that Henry's (proprietory) WMA decoder can't do 44.1KHz playback on a 96MHz ARM.
11:25:49pondlifeI'd almost certainly introduce Windows CRLFs...
11:25:50preglowme too
11:25:54preglowwma isn't that complex
11:26:04Paul_The_NerdFunky: What error?
11:26:05Bagdersounds like a crappy codec to me
11:26:22Paul_The_NerdMaybe he forgot to remove some floating point?
11:26:43preglowgod knows
11:26:49Funkyrockbox error: -1
11:27:04preglowi just wish the wma porters would post some bloody code so we can stuff it in vs
11:27:08preglowcvs
11:27:09Paul_The_NerdFunky: Traditionanlly that means you haven't extracted a build onto your player
11:27:09linuxstbBut still, any implementation would be good, even a slow one...
11:27:29Paul_The_NerdFunky: Did you download a CVS or daily build and extract it?
11:27:32linuxstbpreglow: We've all been saying that to them for months...
11:27:44Funkyyes
11:27:49 Quit Sinbios ("If the definition of a klutz is someone who doesn't have eyes on their ass, then yes, I suppose I am a klutz.")
11:27:51Funkybut i may have done it to the wrong place
11:28:15Funkywhere shud i have extracted it to?
11:28:21Paul_The_NerdIn the root
11:28:23Paul_The_NerdF:\
11:28:37Paul_The_NerdYou should have F:\.rockbox\ and F:\rockbox.playername (ipod, iriver, iaudio)
11:28:39preglowin a related matter
11:28:43Paul_The_NerdWhere F is the driveletter of your player
11:28:54preglowi'm hitting severe precision problems with the lowshelf eq filter
11:29:01preglowwhich MIGHT be affecting audio
11:29:06Funkyo ok so i think min is the E
11:29:08pondlifeDid anyone see this - http://news.com.com/Real+to+plug+Windows+media+support+into+Linux/2100-1025_3-6105970.html?tag=nefd.top
11:29:21pondlifeUnlikely it will be fixed point I know
11:29:33pondlifeOr even license-compatible.
11:29:35preglowwe can't us eit
11:29:39preglowprobably helix licensed
11:29:50linuxstbpondlife: ffmpeg have had an open wma decoder for years...
11:30:05pondlifeBut floating point only I assume?
11:30:17preglowyea
11:30:19linuxstbYes - that's the source currently being ported to Rockbox.
11:30:21markunFunky: E or F, doesn't matter which drive letter
11:30:57linuxstbpondlife: But yes, as preglow says, Real's open source license isn't GPL compatible, no it's a no-go for Rockbox.
11:31:08mirak_salut
11:31:19markunmorning mirak_
11:31:30Funkyok im not sure where this f drive is,is it my c drive or the actual ipod?
11:31:39linuxstbpondlife: And that article says it won't be in their open source player - just their closed source version...
11:31:40mirak_linuxstb it could be an external codec ?
11:31:53amiconnBagder, LinusN: Regarding screen transitions - I don't think we need separate enter() and leave() functions and a full blown struct
11:32:17markunFunky: Extract the rockbox zip to the root of you ipod. That should be all.
11:32:19linuxstbmirak_: There's no such thing....
11:32:30Funkyanyone?
11:32:33Bagderamiconn: it might suffice with just an array of function pointers
11:32:51amiconnThe available screens could just be put in an enum, and one screen's function would return the id of the screen to enter on return
11:33:10markunFunky: if you open the drive of your ipod do you have a rockbox.ipod file?
11:33:16markunFunky: and a .rockbox folder?
11:34:01Funkyi extracted it to the c drive
11:34:12markunFunky: then it will not work
11:34:22LinusNamiconn: yes, i guess that would be enough, but i think i would prefer a set_screen() function instead of using return valuies
11:34:29amiconnwhy?
11:34:31Paul_The_NerdFunky: You need to extract it to your iPod's drive
11:34:40LinusNthat way you can select the screen in menus
11:35:00LinusNand the screen calling the menu wouldn't need to care
11:35:11amiconnit would
11:35:24amiconn...because it has to exit in order for the new screen to be called
11:35:39LinusNof course it has to exit
11:35:45Funkyso i plug in my ipod and it pops up in the my computer panel i open that up and drop the file into there
11:35:46Funky?
11:36:00amiconnLinusN: Then it can just return the new screen id as well
11:36:01LinusNwe need a global state variable in any case, for the resume-to-screen info
11:36:05Bagdereeeh
11:36:09Bagder+ *: "RECORD = Delete"
11:36:20markunFunky: we told you a few times now. If you can't figure it out perhaps rockbox isn't for you.
11:36:22Bagderisn't that a bit too generic?
11:36:33LinusNBagder: in my commit?
11:36:38Bagdersee mmmm's commit just now
11:36:40Paul_The_NerdFunky: You don't just drop the rockbox.zip there, you need to extract it.
11:36:55Funkyyes i gatherthed that =p
11:37:31Paul_The_NerdWell, you *said* something else.
11:38:21 Quit mantono ("memcheck(brb: 20minutes)")
11:38:57linuxstbBagder: Yes - it's a bit too generic...
11:39:09firenxhe needs to use one of the installers heh
11:39:12LinusNis mmmmm on irc?
11:39:14firenxto setup the boodloader
11:39:18 Join mantono [0] (n=mantono@c83-250-204-173.bredband.comhem.se)
11:39:55markunfirenx: without a bootloader he wouldn't have got "error: -1"
11:40:39firenxwell to add rockbox to the bootloader?
11:41:00Paul_The_Nerdfirenx: That's a very simple procedure. Extract a daily or CVS build onto the drive.
11:41:15firenxoh thats it?.. didn't know it was that simple heh
11:41:46 Part mantono ("Don't worry, be happy")
11:41:46Paul_The_NerdOnce the bootloader is installed, the build is just files on the disk
11:41:53Funkyok what shud the folder be called on the ipods drive?
11:42:02firenxit does it for you!
11:42:04firenxjust mount your ipod
11:42:06firenxopen that archive
11:42:10firenxand extract it to g:\
11:42:13firenxor whatever your ipod drive is
11:42:30firenxyou're using winrar?
11:42:38Funkyyes
11:42:47firenxopen it, extract to your ipods root folder
11:43:20Funkykk
11:43:48Funkydone
11:44:28firenxok try it
11:45:02Funkyseems to be working
11:45:08firenxcool
11:45:13firenxwhat are you installing it onto?
11:45:14Funkyso what can i do now?
11:45:17amiconn"RECORD = Delete" is one of those careless commits imho. Rockbox is really multi-platform, I wonder why people keep forgetting that... :(
11:45:49LinusNamiconn: agreed
11:45:51Paul_The_NerdFunky: Read the manual to find out more about what Rockbox can do...
11:46:09firenxyou'll want to change the theme
11:46:15Funkyyes
11:46:24linuxstbamiconn: The original file even had a generic string, and an iriver-specific string...
11:46:31firenxjblackglass is really nice
11:46:59firenxhttp://pijulius.blogspot.com/2006/05/jblackglass-for-ipod-photocolor.html
11:47:50Funkyhm looks good
11:48:07firenxare you using an ipod?
11:48:26Funkyyes a nano will it work with that?
11:48:32firenxumm
11:48:42firenxyeah i think theres one for that
11:48:44firenxits a little smaller
11:49:18Funkysame site?
11:49:24Bagderif someone is not on IRC and does not respond/react to mails on the dev list, I think commits are a bad idea
11:49:28firenxhttp://www.rockbox-themes.org/index.php?res=176x132x16
11:49:33firenxtheres themes around
11:49:52Funkyah thankd
11:49:55Funkythanks*
11:50:07 Join mkey [0] (n=mkey@pD9E3532A.dip.t-dialin.net)
11:50:19firenxnp
11:50:26firenxmost themes you install the same way as rockbox
11:50:36Funkyexrtracting?
11:50:49 Part Paul_The_Nerd
11:52:15 Join XavierGr [0] (n=xavier@ppp137-203.adsl.forthnet.gr)
11:52:30Funkydosent see to think its connected..
11:53:44Funky..
11:54:22Funkydone dont worry :p
11:57:10Funkyive put the teme on and set it but it doesnet look like it suppose to
11:57:15Funkytheme*
11:58:17Funky :(
11:58:19*linuxstb discovers that mpeg decoders use a 27MHz system clock and wonders how to implement accurate timing...
11:58:35firenxhmm the blackglas theme?
11:58:42Funkyye
11:58:46firenxyou need to install a special build
11:58:48 Join Arathis [0] (n=doerk@p508A6C88.dip.t-dialin.net)
11:59:06Funkyok
11:59:20firenxcalled jbuild or somethin.. google it
12:00
12:03:56amiconnlinuxstb: What's the problem with that? Is the framerate given as number of 27MHz ticks?
12:04:15Funkycant find it...
12:07:17linuxstbamiconn: The fps is represented as "frame period" - an integer number of 27MHz ticks.
12:07:30 Quit TCK (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
12:07:51 Quit einhirn ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
12:08:13 Join apo [0] (n=apo@dslb-084-057-067-064.pools.arcor-ip.net)
12:09:09 Join Mmmm [0] (n=mscarrat@cpc1-hem13-0-0-cust291.lutn.cable.ntl.com)
12:10:36markunlinuxstb: do you need to decode a frame completely if you want to skip it?
12:12:00Bg3rMin Version: Rls 2.5 <= does anyone know what is that supposed to mean ?
12:12:04Funkyfound it
12:12:54markunBg3r: looks like "minimal version: release 2.5" or is that not your question?
12:13:29Bg3rmarkun: unlikely ... there's no 2.5 rockbox release for non-archos devices ...
12:13:41Bg3rmarkun: http://www.rockbox-themes.org/index.php?res=220x176x16
12:14:32Bg3rwho is martin scarratt ?
12:14:39Mmmmsorry...thats me!
12:14:42markun:)
12:14:51Mmmmrecord = delete right? ;)
12:15:01Bg3rMmmm: eh ...
12:15:13Bg3ri was working on this file since yesterday ...
12:15:21Mmmmahhh...
12:16:04MmmmI just got home and found all the buttons arent working on the remotes so i thought id get down to it! :)
12:16:13linuxstbmarkun: I'm pretty sure all frames will need to be decoded to meet the dependencies of future (and past, in the case of B-frames) frames. But maybe some frames will be skippable.
12:16:51LinusNMmmm: the thing is that rockbox runs on many targets
12:17:28 Join amiconn_ [0] (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn)
12:17:37LinusNyou can't just change the strings for all the other targets when you remap a button
12:17:52MmmmYes I forgot about the record thing....sorry....so we should have h100,h120,h300: "RECORD= Delete"
12:17:57MmmmI didnt remap it!
12:18:07LinusNsorry
12:18:12MmmmI think JDGordon must have!
12:18:39Mmmmits only for the h1xx/h3xx though so it's just the lang file
12:18:51Mmmmi hope
12:18:55LinusN- *: "ON+Play = Delete"
12:18:55LinusN-h100,h120,h300: "ON+NAVI = Delete"
12:18:55LinusN+ *: "RECORD = Delete"
12:19:04LinusNthis is what bothers me the most
12:19:32LinusNyou deleted the target specific strings and made the new text global for all targets
12:19:37Mmmmyes.. should be h100,h120,h300: "RECORD= Delete"
12:19:55LinusNinstead of just changing the iriver string
12:21:50Bg3rMmmm: are you going to make more changes ?
12:21:53Bg3rto this file
12:24:08A_MHmm... what've I've done wrong when I can't compile a file unless I remove every instance of bool/true/false?
12:24:37Bg3ru've removed some header
12:25:00Bg3r(probably)
12:25:47A_Mthat's what I was thinking, but can't figure out which one to include to get it to work. (this is a new .c file, not a modified old one)
12:26:34Bg3rplugin ?
12:26:35pondlifeLinusN: forgot to mention I found out what was allocating memory mysteriously (aka ???)...
12:26:48A_Mnot a plugin
12:26:49pondlifeIt was in tagtree.c.
12:26:51LinusNpondlife: yes, saw that
12:26:55pondlifeAh, ok
12:27:14LinusNA_M: stdbool.h
12:27:42pondlifeI have replaced it with a buffer_alloc(0), followed shortly by a buffer_alloc(<size>) as the size isn't known upfront, and many multiple allocs would be slower.
12:27:52Funkywhats rockbox error: -5? mean
12:28:24pondlifeI see this idea already used elsewhere so hope it's ok. Given no yield in between..
12:28:29A_MLinusN: thanks, that did the trick
12:28:40LinusNFunky: it means that the checksum of rockbox.ipod is wrong
12:28:45MmmmLinusN: Is this no good then? h100,h120,h300: "RECORD = Delete" as the delete button on the I rivers is record.
12:29:07LinusNFunky: possibly because you have downloaded the wrong version of rockbox for your model
12:29:24LinusNMmmm: sounds correct
12:29:25Funkyi tried downloading jbuild for the nano
12:30:04MmmmLinusN: Ok...sorry about all that..I've been a bit stupid!
12:30:41LinusNMmmm: don't worry, i'll recall my hitmen
12:30:50Bg3rMmmm: are you going to make more changes to keymap-h1x0_h3x0.c ?
12:30:55pondlifeBang! Too late!!
12:31:13LinusNhmmm, phone is busy...
12:31:21LinusN:-)
12:31:24MmmmBg3r: If you want me to leave it because you are busy with it, I will
12:31:39Bg3rthat's what i'm asking for :)
12:31:50Funkyhow can i install a new theme to my nano withouth getting errors?
12:31:52*Mmmm hides in a corner just in case...
12:32:05MmmmBger: ok... :)
12:32:08Bg3rMmmm: haha LinusN isn't so dangerous :P
12:32:14Mmmm:D
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12:32:46pondlifeExcept when he commits one of my patches
12:32:57Bg3r:D
12:33:46linuxstbFunky: That's a bit of a vague question... The "-5" error means the rockbox.ipod file is corrupted in some way. Maybe you didn't eject it properly from your computer after copying - so just try again.
12:34:14linuxstb(or -5 can also mean you downloaded a version not for the Nano..)
12:34:20pondlifeOn another topic, I just tried playing an AAC file on my H300 for the first time and was surprised at how much trouble it had keeping up. CPU was boosted all the time too.
12:34:23Funkywell it was jbuild
12:34:27webguest85LinusN: regarding screen switching: after having thought about it, I'd say it's impossible to control everything from the main loop since e.g. the radio and record screens are entered from menu. I.e. you'd have to change menu code which isn't good.
12:34:32Funkyim not sure if it works on the nano?
12:34:54LinusNwebguest85: why is that?
12:34:56Bg3rhmmmm
12:35:05linuxstbFunky: Where did you download it from?
12:35:22 Quit amiconn (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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12:35:35Funkyone sec
12:35:38LinusNwebguest85: the idea is that the recording and fm screens would replace the wps
12:36:08LinusNso that (to the user) they would be equal
12:36:11 Part Funky
12:36:29webguest85LinusN: that's my understanding of how things work. In the main loop, only main_menu is called. From there, radio_screen is called. I.e. radio_screen is not called from the main loop.
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12:36:42LinusNthat would probably require a change of the menu structure, and of the entire ui
12:36:45pondlifeIf you're recording from radio, which screen is displayed?
12:37:13Funkywell i fixed the error i just want a new theme so how do i go about this :p
12:37:14pondlifeYou may want to pause recording, or you may want to change radio tuning
12:37:20LinusNwebguest85: what i'm suggesting is restructuring the entire ui code
12:37:50 Quit Mmmm (Remote closed the connection)
12:37:53LinusNpondlife: on the iriver, you switch to the recording screen
12:38:05LinusNon the archos, you record in the fm screen
12:38:15webguest85LinusN: yes, that would be the implication. And the menu engine too. But then it's not for me (I fear I'll corrupt everything).
12:38:36LinusNwebguest85: we should probably do this in small iterations
12:38:59Funkycan any one help me install a them to a nano
12:39:08pondlifeI suppose I meant "Which screen should be displayed?"
12:39:16webguest85LinusN: mm... I think it won't work without (at least one) big bang.
12:39:20linuxstbFunky: You'll need to ask a specific question.
12:39:26LinusNwebguest85: sure
12:39:45LinusNpondlife: there are two camps here
12:39:49pondlifeRecording screen would be most obvious, but if I was recording and wanted to tune up or down a bit to improve reception...
12:40:09LinusNthere is the "recording should work in the fm screen", and the "switch to recording screen" camps
12:40:20pondlifeMy IRiver seems to either drift off a bit or maybe the transmitter does...
12:40:24Funkylinuxstb:i have just installe rockbox and i need to get a them for it im not sure how to go about it
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12:40:29webguest85LinusN: ...which should be made by a core RB developer who understands many (if not all) twists
12:40:39LinusNwebguest85: probably
12:40:56webguest85LinusN: ... and that's definitely not me.
12:40:57pondlifeI prefer "recording screen" I think, but it should be possible to exit to radio screen without stopping recording!
12:41:05LinusNwe should think about how we would want the ui to work
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12:42:11linuxstbFunky: Go to http://www.rockbox-themes.org, download a zip file for one of the themes for the Nano, and extract the contents of that zip file to the .rockbox folder on your ipod.
12:42:29LinusNi.e how do we want to switch between screens in the ui?
12:42:43scorchelinuxstb: i believe he is trying to get jblackglass to work
12:42:47Funkylinuxstb: ok
12:43:01Funkyi was
12:43:29linuxstbFunky: That's not what you asked...
12:43:45Funkyi know becasue i am not anymore
12:44:08Funkybut..
12:44:25Funkywhen i install a them their basic and dont look anything like they should
12:44:29Funkytheme*
12:44:57webguest85LinusN: IMHO the current bahaviour reg. screen switching is ok (for the user). But the mechanics under the hood should be reworked.
12:46:30scorcheFunky: some themes require different fonts...the fonts are packaged separately...look for the font package in the daily builds page
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12:46:55Bg3rFunky: especially the jblackglass theme needs non-oficial rockbox build ...
12:47:21Bg3r(which includes many patches not in the rockbox's cvs tree)
12:47:40Funkythe only thing i can get to work is the backdrop...
12:47:57Bg3rvery possible
12:48:10Bg3ralso u should be sure that u've extracted the fontpack ...
12:48:31Funkyyes now the fonts are working and not the backdrop!
12:48:41LinusNwebguest85: some people have expressed concerns about having FM and recording as menu items
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12:49:17Bg3rFunky: what is your ipod ?
12:49:22webguest85LinusN: concerns = they don't like it?
12:49:23Funkynano
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12:50:53Bg3rFunky: are you sure that jblackglass is ported to the nano ?
12:51:27Funkybg3r:http://www.rockbox-themes.org/index.php?res=176x132x16
12:51:41LinusNwebguest85: yes
12:52:41Funkyi get the backdrop but i dont seem to get the media player pics
12:54:30Funkythe overall layout doesnt change
12:54:54webguest85LinusN: Hmm... They are something special in the sence that it's not settings but rather 'do it!' entries. But if we don't have enough buttons we could dedicate to it, we must put it into menu.
12:54:54Bg3rFunky: and u're sure u've installed it correctly ?
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12:55:10linuxstbJust thinking aloud about the UI (don't kill me), one approach would to flatten everything - so file browser, WPS, FM and Recording (and maybe the tagcache browser) are all the same level, with a root menu containing entries for those screens (and an option could be added for the default-startup screen). The main menu itself could either be there as an option, or accessible via the MENU button. We could have buttons assigned as shortcut
12:55:10linuxstbs between the screens if people wanted (e.g.) a quick way from WPS to filebrowser (and back), but users could go via the root menu if they wanted.
12:55:16Funkyim sure :(
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12:56:19*webguest85 likes linuxstb's idea
12:56:36*Bg3r shoots linuxstb right in the head
12:56:53 Nick dwihno_ is now known as dwihno (n=dw@81.8.226.44)
12:56:59Bg3rseriously, the ida isn't bad
12:57:04Bg3rs/ida/idea
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12:57:14*webguest85 shoots Bg3r right in the head :-)))
12:57:57Bg3rouch
12:58:18*petur thinks ida isn't bad either
12:58:42Bagderlinuxstb: yeah, I think we basically agree we should flatten it and then that will be quite easily done
12:59:10LinusNlinuxstb: pretty much what i had in mind too
12:59:26Bg3rBagder: i'm sure that if i dig into the irc logs, i'll find the oposite statement (again said by you) :D
12:59:42Bagderthat we should flatten it?
12:59:43webguest85Sounds like a major change. And it started so innocently!
12:59:44Bg3rs/oposite/opposite
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12:59:50BagderI don't think I've ever opposed that
13:00
13:00:05Bg3rah, maybe it was linus
13:00:15Bagderbut yeah, I do change my mind from time to time
13:00:39*petur watches Bagder open his head and swap brains
13:00:45Bg3rhaha
13:01:08Bg3rit's always nice to have a backup one
13:01:19aliaskI don't quite understand the idea: would you have WPS, recording etc on in the existing main menu? Or would this be accessed by select?
13:01:38Bg3raliask: afaics the last
13:01:50linuxstbaliask: There would be a new "root menu" or "screen menu" - different to the main menu, which is in effect a "pop-up" menu accessible from anywhere.
13:02:08aliaskFinally a real use for the record button?
13:02:18Bg3rhaha
13:02:29peturwould this be a new root one level below the current one, and the browser would be a 'folder'
13:02:43 Quit pondlife ("byebye")
13:03:01linuxstbpetur: Yes, it would replace the file browser as the "root" screen in Rockbox.
13:03:18Bg3rwhat about 'functions menu' : wps/fm radio/record/browse [filetree|tagcache]/settings
13:03:27aliaskI think it would certainly make it easier for people moving to rockbox.
13:03:33*petur wonders what amiconn will say about this ("urgh it adds another keypress to my music")
13:03:46Bg3rpetur: :D
13:03:58aliaskpetur: That's what *I* thought at first
13:04:00Bg3rthe idea is to have a startup screen
13:04:07peturlinuxstb: I'm all for it
13:04:08linuxstbpetur: It wouldn't have to. We would have 1) an option to boot straight into one of those screens (e.g. file browser); and 2) a shortcut button from WPS to filebrowser.
13:04:10Bg3rso u can set it to the filetree
13:04:26aliasklinuxstb: I really like this idea.
13:04:32peturgo go go
13:05:55Bg3rLinusN: btw, any plans for new h3xx bootloader ? :-[
13:06:09*Bg3r hides
13:06:10peturfor that to work, fm recording must take place in the fm screen otherwise this gets confusing
13:06:13*aliask joins Bg3r :(
13:06:23 Quit Kitar|st (Connection timed out)
13:06:24Bg3raliask: now join in hiding :D
13:06:24linuxstbWhat about a new "fm recording" screen?
13:06:42LinusNBg3r: plans: yes, time: no
13:06:56webguest85How does it come that this is is being discussed now with RB being several years old? Or did Bagder do the trick by swapping the brain? ;-)
13:06:57Bg3rLinusN: :(
13:06:57peturthere's plenty of space on the fm recording to add recording, no?
13:07:06aliasklinuxstb: Certainly more intuitive than setting the source to "Line in"
13:07:28Bg3rwhy not fm radio->recording jump ?
13:07:28LinusNthe archos fm screen allows recording
13:07:28Bagderwebguest85: yeah, we isn't rockbox already complete and bugfree?
13:07:40 Part MadDog011
13:07:46Bagderwebguest85: I blame you for not having saved us in the past ;-)
13:08:10*petur laughs a bit and rolls off the channel
13:08:30peturbeer time in 4 hours, gotta work a bit now ;)
13:08:35 Quit petur ("later")
13:08:50*webguest85 joins petur
13:08:50LinusNthe line-in trick is just a workaround
13:08:55 Part webguest85
13:09:14linuxstbSo, is anyone willing to try to implement that idea?....
13:09:35LinusNi am willing, but you will first have to invent a time-machine
13:09:53LinusNand a device that teleports my family to a parallel universe
13:10:23Bg3rLinusN: wouldn't it be easier just to make 1-2 your clones ? :)
13:10:26aliaskI'm already working a lot in the UI code, I could give it a shot, but my C skills are pretty poor in comparison to most people here.
13:10:31LinusNBg3r: good idea
13:10:45*LinusN goes to lunch
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13:12:35linuxstbaliask: Go for it... I'm sure others will help.
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13:12:41 Quit Gnelik (Client Quit)
13:12:44***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
13:13:13dongsallright what the fuck is going on.
13:13:24dongsfirst my bug report gets moved to 'feature request' while it isn
13:13:32Bg3r~30kb keymap-h1x0_h3x0.c ...
13:13:33dongsthen it gets closed and 'duped' by something written by a 10 years old you cant spell 'you'
13:13:46 Quit Mmmm ("Byeee")
13:13:54Bagderdongs: with your language and attitude, that hardly surprises me
13:13:54linuxstbdongs: But it was a duplicate - why didn't you add comments to the original?
13:13:56dongs(and the 'dupe' IS actually a feature request since it changes functionality
13:14:03dongsit is NOT a duplicate.
13:14:08dongshe wants different functionality for the keys.
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13:14:17dongsit has nothign to do with my bug report.
13:14:56dongsmy bug report is for 1track repeat operation.
13:15:05dongshis feature request is to add some extra way of navigating out of 1track mode.
13:15:35BagderI just rejected the request for changing the closedness
13:15:42Bagderthe entry was crap
13:16:01Bagderif that's the one you're talking about
13:16:47dongsi disagree.
13:16:50dongsthe dupe entry is crap.
13:17:01Bagderpossibly that too
13:17:14dongshowever, my bug report has nothing to do with it.
13:17:24linuxstbdongs: No, it's a duplicate. The original task just suggests a different solution to the problem than you - it's much more useful to add your comments to that task (i.e. start a constructive debate) than to create a new task.
13:17:27dongsif you dont like the way it was reported, feel free to edit it, but the bug still exists.
13:17:40dongslinuxstb: he wants new functionality.
13:17:41Bagderand what _is_ the bug?
13:17:54dongsBagder: 1-track repeat does not skip to next song on prev/next track buttons/keys.
13:18:14Bagderit isn't a bug
13:18:19Bagderits designed to do that
13:18:31dongslol, here we go awain
13:18:33dongsagain rather.
13:18:37Bagderso its a feature-request to have it changed
13:18:43dongswhy don t you scroll up 12 hours ago and see where this has been beaten to death already.
13:19:05BagderI have my opinion no matter what anyone said 12 hours ago
13:19:09linuxstbdongs: It doesn't matter if you want to call it a bug, and others want to call it a feature request - it won't make any difference to whether a developer decides it's worth implementing.
13:19:38dongsits a usability bug.
13:19:48Bagderbut sure, I could possibly have rewritten the entry and re-opened
13:19:49linuxstbI just prefer to call them tasks - it's a fine line between bug and feature, and debating it is a waste of everyone's time.
13:20:13BagderI decided it was badly written and didn't add any value to the procject: closed
13:20:30dongsokay then. 10 years old 'u' task is a request to have some new shit added, and my 'task' is a report of a broken functionality.
13:20:43midkaywhy isn't he banned yet?
13:20:53XavierGrdongs I suggest you chill out....
13:22:27dongsXavierGr: yeah ok. http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/5836 vs http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/1309
13:22:33dongsXavierGr: which one is a bug report and which one is a feature request
13:22:47linuxstbdongs: I'm just saying that even if you persuade everyone that it should be called a bug, what changes?
13:23:06dongslinuxstb: the report needs to be reopened, until its fixed
13:23:14midkaydongs: there
13:23:48midkaythere's already a report requesting functionality change for Repeat One. why don't you comment on that with your idea if it's any different from his?
13:24:01Bagderdongs: if you file a properly phrase entry saying you'd like the behaviour modified as you suggest, then I'm fine with it. Like or not but 1309 is very similar to what you asked.
13:24:03XavierGrdongs I agree with Bagder that the report is badly written and I agree with you that it is a bug
13:24:17Bagderbut add that to 1309!
13:24:29Bagderno need start flooding the system with almost-similar requsts
13:24:39midkayBagder: is that at me?
13:24:49midkayi said, comment on it.. i meant comment on 1309.
13:24:58Bagderyes I agree with that
13:25:10midkayk.
13:25:28XavierGrdongs and the attitude in the report is just spoiled. "Well, this one is a no-brainer.
13:25:28XavierGrOne would be hard-pressed to find a player that did this, besides rockbox.
13:25:37XavierGrwhat sort of report is that?
13:25:52Bagderits an attitude problem shining through I'd say
13:26:02midkaythat's dongs, and i absolutely can not believe that nobody has even warned him of a kick or ban yet..
13:26:28midkayhe's a broken record troll, "open source sucks", "this is typical", "you idiots", "this is a BUG because i say it is"..
13:26:54XavierGrthen ban him and end of story :)
13:26:58midkayarguing along with him for days and days is hardly discouraging to him..
13:27:10midkayXavierGr: honestly - why hasn't that happened yet. :)
13:27:54XavierGrwho knows, main devs feel forgiving maybe?
13:28:20midkaytoo forgiving.. that and they don't seem to be on often enough to catch it. :)
13:28:23dongsbecause deep inside, you know I am right, and you're just lazy/whatever to fix the bugs.
13:28:30dongs:D
13:28:30midkaysee? again..
13:28:31Kick(#Rockbox dongs :Bagder) by Bagder!n=daniel@rockbox/developer/bagder
13:28:41XavierGrLOL
13:28:44midkaythank you. :)
13:28:50Bg3rLAZY ?
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13:29:03dongsallright.
13:29:16BagderI'll ban next time
13:29:19dongsback to idle for me until i find a new bug
13:29:32Bg3rdongs: maybe u're the lazy person who doesn't want to fix the bug in his spare time, instead of attacking the other developers
13:30:22midkayyes, we're so lazy, doing the boring little things that don't matter like revamping code, extending stability and support, when we ought to be dealing with the REAL issues here like modifying how the repeat function works or showing the "pause" icon when the fade begins instead of afterwards even though there's about a 1/2 second difference between the two..
13:30:26midkaywe have our priorities all wrong. :(
13:30:57*Bagder is a lazy bastard
13:30:59aliaskmidkay: Don't feed him...
13:31:59midkayaliask: that's a joke and i didn't mean it in any way to be read by him - i wrote it as he was kicked. that and even if i were feeding him, it's nothing compared to the hours of argument that take place every night over stupid little things like a pause icon.
13:32:25Bg3rhe is fed enough ... http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b38/dagg12/a%20couple%20other%20pictures/fuck_on_first_date.jpg
13:32:25dongsmidkay: i duno, this is the last thing im gonna say today to avoid getting b&, but, perhaps you should consider your target audience, is it users or 'developers'? End users don't care that you rearranged 50% of playlist.c or somehting, but end users DO care about usability and those 'stupid little features like pause indicator' a lot more than you've spent half a day rewriting code. honestly.
13:32:44midkayBg3r: haha.
13:32:55Bagderhahaha
13:33:25linuxstbGoing back to the root menu idea, I think it needs to have a consistent key assigned in all the screens (WPS, File Browser, Radio, Recording and Tag Browser) to exit back to the root menu. Any suggestions for the various targets?
13:33:28Bagderdongs is way out in the blue
13:33:54midkaydongs: once more, you're the only one we've had complain nearly so extensively about such little things, and in response, why on earth are you using it when apparently we don't care at all about the end user? nobody is forcing or even asking you to..
13:35:46Bg3rlinuxstb: something like stop ? or record for hxxx
13:35:52*amiconn (somewhat) returns and thinks "Oh noes! Not that root menu idea again!!"
13:36:28XavierGrhehe
13:36:31amiconnImho that's a bad concept. Some retail firmwares use it
13:37:03Bg3rwhat's wrong with this concept ?
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13:37:41Bg3rit gives the opportunity to set whatever screen you like to be the first showed up upon loading
13:38:53amiconnThat can be done without a root menu
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13:39:23webguest85Bg3r: actually I liked the way it worked in the original iriver H1xx firmware. I mean: RECORD gets you to the recording screen, long press of PLAY switches between the radio and file browser and/or WPS.
13:39:45BagderI never understood the h1x0 OF, it was downright confusing to me
13:40:02Bagdernot to mention the X5 one
13:40:29Bagder(where I had to pull out the manual to escape from the FM screen)
13:40:45midkayhaha.
13:40:51Bg3rBagder: how do u exit from that screen ?:)
13:41:03Bg3rwebguest85: not all people record so often ...
13:41:07BagderI don't remember anymore, but it made sense once I learned it
13:41:15aliaskamiconn: It makes it dead easy for a person starting to use rockbox to learn the ropes.
13:41:16Bg3rhaha
13:41:22webguest85Bagder: how about this (iriver H1xx specific): long pressing of PLAY brings up the screen menu? I don't like the idea myself but maybe it will bring the others to bette ones.
13:41:30linuxstbamiconn: I'm happy to be persuaded against it, but a) users like yourself could avoid it by setting a default start-up screen; and b) shortcuts between screens would keep most (hopefully) all of the existing navigation.
13:41:58linuxstb^I meant "most (hopefully all)"
13:42:29linuxstbi.e. the best of both worlds - an easier to learn menu system, plus shortcuts.
13:42:38amiconnBagder: My impression was that the X5 retail fw is more logical than the iriver retail fw
13:43:44webguest85Bg3r: yes, I haven't recorded a single time. I mainly use playback and radio. But there was no option to start the player in the radio mode (as opposed to recording and WPS). That was the start of FS #5049.
13:43:52amiconnlinuxstb: When you can set a startup screen (which is btw already possible - in a limited way) and want shortcuts for switching - why would you need the root menu at all?
13:44:18tucozI think the only thing in rockbox that I do not like are the quickscreens. As they are not (as far as I know) user configurable, and hence of little use as they are so limited to 4 directions.
13:44:45amiconnWe need a virtual root (the screen "dispatcher"), but than virtual root doesn't need a screen itself imo
13:45:01tucozMaybe they make sence on the archoses
13:45:56amiconns/than/that/
13:45:59linuxstbamiconn: I agree - we can implement a new higher-level root without it actually being a screen. But if we have five different screens capable of being dispatched, you'll soon run out of buttons.
13:46:33amiconnNot every screen needs a button, some can be put in the menu, as it is now
13:46:47webguest85linuxstb: not every transition should have a dedicated button
13:47:08tucozI actually liked linuxstb's file based shortcut approach
13:48:37amiconntucoz: How would you localise that??
13:49:03tucozamiconn, I know. But, how often do you change language on your player?
13:49:06tucozI never do
13:49:57tucozBut, the problem is that the shortcuts are hardcoded in the core right?
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13:50:52tucozso to use this, you would have to make a language specific build? (in case you use something other than english)
13:50:59amiconnI do change language every now and then
13:51:28amiconnIf the shortcuts are built-in the localisation can be done the standard way
13:51:50amiconnFile-based shortcuts can't be handled that way.
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13:52:07amiconnThe very same problem is still unsolved for the tagnavi.config
13:52:30tucozok. So that is only in english?
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13:52:50amiconnyes
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13:53:00amiconnI don't like that
13:53:12linuxstbamiconn: If you agree with the idea of a new virtual root, what do you lose by having a menu to show the actions available from that virtual root?
13:53:16 Quit webguest85 ("CGI:IRC 0.5.7 (2005/06/19)")
13:53:32tucozamiconn, but the query language should be in english. Or are you against that as well?
13:53:40amiconnno
13:54:04tucozok. But the strings are user configurable right? (I never looked at that file before)
13:54:14amiconnThe query language needs to be documented and can be english, but it should be possible to localise at least the standard categories
13:54:32amiconn...without forcing the user to edit the file
13:54:36tucozah. I get what you mean.
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14:00
14:01:28mirak_linuxstb I mean just not provide the codec module. you would need to copy it manually in rockbox
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14:03:27linuxstbmirak_: Yes, I know. But a) codecs need support in the core - it's not possible to implement a codec adding supporting code in the core; b) Rockbox plugins (including Codecs) need to include GPL'd headers and GPL'd code, so (IMO) must be GPL'd.
14:04:31mirak_linuxstb but I guess the codec was kind of reverse enginered no ? (seems not)
14:04:38tucozhmm, with language v2 we can localise plugins. Then a tagnavi translator could be made.
14:04:54Bagdertucoz: we can't localise them yet though
14:05:16Bagderwe just have the concept laid out, not actually implemented
14:05:19tucozok
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14:09:30amiconnlinuxstb: You don't lose something with a root menu provided the startup screen is settable, but you increase code size unnecessarily
14:10:02*amiconn remembers the old idea of replacing the quickscreen with a user configurable menu
14:10:16amiconnThat would be more useful imo
14:10:16LinusNamiconn: i think a root menu would be very friendly to the beginner
14:10:28amiconnLinusN: You think so? I don't
14:10:42amiconnThe archos Ondio firmware has a root menu. It's annoying
14:10:56BagderI think most players have a root menu
14:10:56LinusNamiconn: are you a beginner?
14:11:08amiconnno
14:11:11LinusNthere you go
14:11:21LinusNthat's probably why you find it annoying
14:11:50amiconnBagder: Define 'most'. The old archos retail firmwares didn't have that, and that was convenient
14:12:10Bagdermost as in most of the players you can buy
14:12:22tucozincluding cell phones etc
14:13:04amiconntucoz: A cellphone is a different matter here, as the music playing capability is an add-on (imho even just a gimmick)
14:14:04amiconnIf you have a dap that acts as an ums device when connected to the pc, it's only logical that the file browser is also the root within the firmware, imho
14:14:42tucozamiconn, I was mainly thinking of that a root-menu gives a list of the available features, without having to know that a certain key takes you to that menu
14:14:56 Quit apo (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
14:15:05tucozthat is applicable to both cell phones and daps.
14:15:17amiconntucoz: It does that, but then it also has at least two disadvantages (apart from increasing code size)
14:15:36LinusNmost users don't care about code size
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14:15:46amiconn(1) It makes accessing the main functions slower (that can be solved by having a configurable startup screen
14:16:24amiconn(2) In its plain form, it's not configurable, i.e. it also shows functions I never (or almost never) use
14:16:41amiconnThat's why I reiterated the idea of a user configurable menu
14:16:51LinusNis (2) anything new?
14:17:12amiconnyes
14:17:19LinusNthe menu today is full of stuff i never use
14:17:20markunLinusN: on the portpins page, what does the status F mean
14:17:31amiconnLinusN: Do you see the menu on startup?
14:17:32LinusN(F)unction
14:17:41LinusNamiconn: no i don't
14:17:48amiconnIt could also act as startup screen as long as no other screen has been set as that, and contain the main functions
14:17:52tucozSure. A user configurable menu is fine by me. And if we set an option (optionitis, yes) to for instance 'start in ->file browser/root menu'. Where the root menu is configurable
14:17:58LinusNneither will you, since you will configure the startup screen
14:18:41BagderI certainly would not either
14:19:04Bagderbut I guess we might not be the typical users
14:19:14amiconnThe user could then either set a different startup screen, and/or opt to keep the user configurable menu as startup, but remove the screens he doesn't use from it, and add other often-used things
14:19:35tucozOn a related note. What do you think about moving the playback options to the top-level of the menu?
14:19:56LinusNinstead of the bookmark stuff?
14:20:11tucozhmm. No, not instead of anything. In addition to
14:20:46markunBagder: do you know what F is in I/O/F on the portpins page?
14:20:57Bagder<LinusN> (F)unction
14:20:58LinusNmarkun: i answered you
14:21:04markunAh, sorry
14:21:16tucozThe reason for suggesting this is because it is a dap, and playback options/sound options are the key features in a dap. The other options are stuff you change more seldom (fonts etc)
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14:28:24tucozwhat is databox used for these days?
14:28:49amiconnI don't think you can use it at all
14:29:02tucozThen we can get rid of it
14:29:05tucozimho
14:29:08LinusNwhere was the root menu idea discussed the last time? in the forums?
14:29:23amiconnHCl wanted to adapt it to tagcache. Perhaps it could be turned into an editor for tagnavi.config, to aid in creating queries
14:29:30tucozaha
14:29:51tucozbut maybe we can stop building it, but keep the sources in cvs then
14:29:55linuxstbMaybe leave the code, but take it out of plugins/SUBDIRS ?
14:29:58tucoz:)
14:30:06linuxstbAh... Good idea.
14:30:09tucozhehe
14:30:12amiconnLinusN: What do you think about the user configurable menu idea, with that menu being the root menu unless configured differently?
14:30:44LinusNsounds fine to me
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14:31:43Bagderto me that sounds like a configurable root menu :-)
14:31:46daurn|laphi Bagder
14:31:53Bagderhey
14:32:12daurn|lapcan you debug pcs?
14:32:19amiconnUser configurable menu means every menu submenu would need a unique identifier. These identifiers would then be stored in the .cfg, with a fallback to a built-in list
14:32:23Bagder"debug pcs" ?
14:32:27daurn|lapwell
14:32:31daurn|lapmy computer is fucked
14:32:36daurn|lap - i want it fixed
14:32:36daurn|lap:P
14:32:40Bagderhahaha
14:32:48Bagderbuy a new
14:32:50markunSounds like a job for bagder ;)
14:32:51daurn|lapcan you lend me $1000?
14:33:08 Quit chendo__ (Remote closed the connection)
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14:34:02markunOne of the pins of the gigabeat is configured as a pwm timer output. Does anyone have an idea what it could be used for?
14:35:38Bagdersomeone for generating pwm pulses I guess
14:35:40Bagdersomehow
14:36:04markunyes, but for what. It's probably not connected to the backlight
14:36:22amiconnCan you trace it?
14:36:52markunamiconn: well, wibbix tried that and this is the result :) http://www.faxus.net/wade/bad_job.jpg
14:38:09daurn|laplol
14:38:12daurn|lapnice job
14:38:14daurn|lap:p
14:38:27markunIt's from the probe of the logic analyzer. The CPU is BGA so it's pretty hard to trace.
14:38:42daurn|lapmaybe don't use a 1m rasp next time
14:38:43daurn|lap;)
14:38:52markundaurn|lap: I'll tell him
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14:41:19amiconnmarkun: ouch!
14:41:33*amiconn remembers tracing some things on his Ondio SP
14:42:18amiconnCloseups of some pins of the clock gating chip might look similar (w/o any pin failing though)
14:42:20*daurn|lap doesn't remember.......... anything
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14:44:08*amiconn wonders what the update cycle of rasher.dk/rockbox/people/">http://rasher.dk/rockbox/people/ is
14:44:12*LinusN remember tracing the whole goddamn h100 :-)
14:45:00markunLinusN: we are hoping for a broken gigabeat to desolder all the components and open up the LCD module
14:45:23linuxstbmarkun: Looks like wibbix may have one soon :)
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14:46:59*amiconn thinks that a lot of the new suggestions would profit from switching to .cfg files
14:47:05LinusNoh yes
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14:47:55*amiconn also wants one of those time machines LinusN requested earlier :/
14:48:14daurn|lapLinusN: can you help me with a NewPort?
14:48:21LinusNwe should start working on those instead of that silly audio player stuff
14:48:44LinusNdaurn|lap: shoot
14:48:54daurn|lapwell, i want to start on a new port
14:49:02daurn|lapi have hardware addresses
14:49:23daurn|lapand just pretty much need help setting up a area in the rockbox files
14:49:45daurn|lap - i just CAN'T do makefiles
14:49:46daurn|lap:S
14:49:49markundaurn|lap: which player?
14:50:05daurn|lapgmini 402
14:50:19LinusNhttp://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/PortingHowTo
14:50:38LinusNa work-in-progress porting howto
14:51:20daurn|lapyay
14:51:20daurn|lap:P
14:51:40daurn|lapok, i'll do that - then come back and beg for more help
14:51:41daurn|lap;)
14:51:49Bagderwooo
14:52:05LinusNit's a start at least
14:52:26 Quit mkey (""Welcome to IRC; Where men are men, women are men and little girls are FBI agents!"")
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14:52:41Bagderanyone with windows around feeling like extracting some mi4/bl files for me?
14:52:51daurn|lapnever heard of them
14:52:52LinusNi can do it
14:53:08Bagderhttp://daniel.haxx.se/sansa/tatung/FWSetup_M310_2006_Feb_16(WIN_XP)(1140)(EU).exe
14:53:18Bagderhttp://daniel.haxx.se/sansa/tatung/firm/Firmware_Setup_2005_Dec_28(Europe).exe
14:53:39Bagderthey're for two different Tatung Elio players
14:53:41 Join bluebrother [0] (i=VUdgNRdl@nat-wh-1.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de)
14:54:05Bagderthey're refused when run with wine
14:55:32Bagderdaurn|lap: http://daniel.haxx.se/sansa/mi4.html
14:55:50LinusNUnable to run the firmware installer! tatung M310 utility does not been installed on your computer
14:56:07Bagder:-/
14:56:17LinusNhang on
14:56:33Bagderthat's of course possible to install, but still might not be worth it
14:57:00mirak_hey look that, http://joris-dedieu.developpez.com/coldfire_intro/ it's a coldfire programmation tutorial in french
14:57:24mirak_maybe it's alerady known
14:58:05amiconnLinusN: Do you have an idea what might cause some things mysteriously not working on X5?
14:58:22LinusNamiconn: that was a very general question
14:58:56amiconnE.g. 'metronome' doesn't work for me at first start after boot. It doesn't crash, and you can make it 'tock' with the tap button, but it doesn't tock autmatically
14:59:10amiconnLeaving it and re-entering fixes this until the next boot
14:59:32LinusNamiconn: i thought i had fixed that a long time ago
15:00
15:00:03amiconnAlso, doom hangs at 'starting gfx engine'. It's not the user timer,as it also happens when compiling with the tick-sync mechanism
15:00:09 Quit XavierGr ()
15:00:15amiconnLinusN: oh?
15:00:38LinusNand now it is back
15:01:08amiconnI already compared the MCF5249 and SCF5250 datasheet's timer sections, but couldn't find a difference that maight cause timer misbehaviour
15:01:33amiconnThere are differences, (5250 can't do some things that 5249 can), but we don't use those features
15:01:54daurn|lapok
15:02:02amiconnLinusN: Do you remember rthe cause?
15:02:08daurn|lapwhat do i put for compiler to use?
15:02:14LinusNamiconn: trying to......
15:02:22daurn|lapi want to compile for arm9
15:02:28daurn|lapdo i use arm9tdmicc?
15:03:50Bagderwell, arm is arm
15:04:05Bagderyou don't _have to_ alter anything
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15:04:09 Quit webguest36 ("CGI:IRC")
15:04:19 Join MadDog011 [0] (n=MadDog01@212-200-212-95.adsl.sezampro.yu)
15:04:24Bagderusing -march or -mcpu can of course optimize some things
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15:04:33daurn|lapi mean in the configure script
15:04:43Bagderthen use arm like the others I'd say
15:04:49daurn|lapall have different ones
15:04:50daurn|lap:P
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15:05:11Bagderah
15:05:27Bagderwell is your core really a arm9tdmi?
15:05:39daurn|laparm DM320\
15:05:43daurn|lap(arm9)
15:05:47Bagderthat's not the name of the core
15:05:51daurn|lapwell
15:06:03daurn|lap1 sec
15:06:15daurn|lapARM926EJ-S
15:06:24Bagderright, that's not a tdmi
15:06:27daurn|lapso, not tdmu
15:06:28daurn|lap:P
15:07:04Bagderstill
15:07:15BagderI doubt thouse -mcpu options do much good... ;-)
15:07:24Bagderbut you should create a new such function I'd say
15:07:38Bagderarm926ejcc or similar
15:07:52daurn|lap:(
15:07:59daurn|lapthis is already looking like too much effort
15:08:00aliaskMan, I love this to-and-fro with bluebrother and Datman on flyspray :D
15:08:06Bagderwhy? they are 4 lines?
15:08:18Bagderif that is too much effort then eject now yes
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15:08:28Bagderyou'll need to write HEAPS of much more
15:09:21Bagderaliask: yeah, seems its gonna be quite a few episodes of this..
15:10:04daurn|lap:S
15:10:16*daurn|lap hides in his gmini402
15:11:08aliaskVery early root menu work - now in a patch... here: aliask.dyndns.org:70/temp/rb/">http://aliask.dyndns.org:70/temp/rb/
15:11:27aliaskI'm stopping for the night, too many hours sitting staring into putty is giving me a headache
15:12:27daurn|lapdamn
15:12:35daurn|lapi'm just a lowly highlevel C coder
15:12:46***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
15:12:49daurn|lapi can't do fucking make files and shell scrtips
15:13:01LinusNand i'm a highly lowlevel coder :-)
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15:13:19daurn|lap:S
15:13:20 Part MadDog011
15:13:27aliaskyou should join forces to become an averagely average C coder!
15:13:39daurn|lapi normally just get a ready to use toolchain
15:13:42daurn|lapand write C code
15:13:46 Join MadDog011 [0] (n=MadDog01@212-200-212-95.adsl.sezampro.yu)
15:13:49daurn|lapno makefile stuff
15:13:52 Part MadDog011
15:13:57daurn|lapno compiller worries
15:14:28LinusNaliask: 10060 - Connection timeout
15:14:58LinusNdaurn|lap: welcome to the real world :-)
15:15:17aliaskUgh, my lowly 256k upstream can probably only handle like 2 concurrent connections
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15:16:00Lynx_Bagder: did you get your mi4 files yet?
15:16:13Bagderno, the exe files are annoying
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15:16:37Bagderrequiring other sw to be installed
15:16:58Lynx_Bagder: no they don't ;). just a sec.
15:17:02BagderI found this: http://support.eliohome.com/index.aspx
15:17:19 Quit lex ("halt ->")
15:17:21Bagderwhich seems to have firmwares for all four players, and I would assume all of them are PP based
15:18:27Lynx_Bagder: tbayer.net/misc/PP5020.mi4 the first of your links
15:18:47BagderLynx_: is there are BL for it too?
15:19:15Lynx_Bagder: no, there is a Ufont.fnt
15:19:22Bagderok
15:19:45linuxstbBagder: When you run the .exe files in wine, are any files created in /tmp before it stops working?
15:20:16linuxstbI think that's how I got the Sansa firmware out the exe originally...
15:20:34MmmmBg3r: What is it you are doing with keymap-h1x0_h3x0.c ? Would it be ok if I tried getting the recording screen up and running or is that going to muck up what you're doing?
15:20:55daurn|lapwhat should i put for GCCOPTS?
15:20:56Lynx_linuxstb, Bagder: those are NSIS installers, 7zip supports extracting them (partly)
15:21:14Bagderlinuxstb: nope :-/
15:21:27LinusNgtg, cu all
15:21:29BagderLynx_: I tried that on my linux box but 7zr didn't extract anything?
15:21:32daurn|lapBagder/
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15:21:54Lynx_Bagder: i had to get a recent version of 7zip, works for me
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15:22:28Bagderdaurn|lap: the correct line, use the existing ones as inspiration
15:22:37markundaurn|lap: you don't need to change any make files
15:22:52Bagdermarkun: no but the configure
15:22:56markunyes
15:22:59daurn|lapok
15:22:59daurn|lapfine
15:23:14Lynx_Bagder: you want the file from the second link, too?
15:23:19Bagderyes please
15:23:21linuxstbdaurn|lap: And "man gcc" may help with the correct options for your CPU.
15:23:21*daurn|lap guesses: GCCOPTS="$CCOPTS -mcpu=arm926ej -ffunction-sections -mlong-calls"
15:23:34Bagderdaurn|lap: probably
15:24:35Lynx_Bagder: there are 2, one in a 'latest' dir, one in an 'upgrade' dir
15:25:08Bagderand a BL?
15:25:41Lynx_Bagder: no .bl, but a elio_anim.anm in addition to the .fnt one
15:26:04 Join gtkspert_ [0] (n=gtkspert@203-59-171-67.dyn.iinet.net.au)
15:26:25Bagderweird, the guy in the forum had a BL for that player
15:26:30daurn|lapok, question that i WILL need input for: - to get my way of loading code to work, i need a binary compilation (.bin) to be inserted into an avi
15:26:40daurn|lapi have a program that does the inserting
15:27:10daurn|lapbut, how do i get rockbox to execute it while its code is in the .bin stage?
15:27:13Bg3rMmmm: here ?
15:27:37 Quit aliask ("sleep")
15:27:42Lynx_Bagder: tbayer.net/misc/2nd/PP5020-L.mi4 and tbayer.net/misc/2nd/PP5020-U.mi4 the -U and -L is from me, they had the same names but were in different folders
15:27:42 Quit barrywardell ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
15:27:57MmmmBg3r: im here
15:28:04Bg3rwanna see it ?
15:28:17Mmmmsee what? :D
15:28:23Bg3rthe diff :D
15:28:44Mmmmok..is it just keymap-h1x0_h3x0.c or have you done the works?
15:28:58Bg3ronly this file
15:29:14linuxstbdaurn|lap: If you start by building a bootloader (which is just a minimal build of Rockbox, it doesn't have to load anything), it will get compiled to a bootloader.bin file.
15:29:22BagderLynx_: great! can you do this also please: http://daniel.haxx.se/sansa/tatung/FWSetup_P810_2005_Nov_30(WIN_XP)(2145)(Europe).exe
15:29:33MmmmBg3r: right..yeah ok...it's finished?
15:29:35daurn|laplinuxstb: ok........
15:29:35Bagderthat's the last
15:29:41 Quit Ribs (Connection timed out)
15:29:45Bg3rMmmm: nearly, but not tested ...
15:29:49Lynx_Bagder: yessir
15:30:40MmmmBg3r: Ok, Are you going to put it on the wiki?
15:30:48 Quit Sinbios ("If the definition of a klutz is someone who doesn't have eyes on their ass, then yes, I suppose I am a klutz.")
15:30:54Bg3rMmmm: soon
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15:31:33 Part MadDog011
15:32:43Lynx_Bagder: tbayer.net/misc/3rd/PP5020.mi4
15:33:16BagderLynx_: thanks! got them all
15:33:18Lynx_Bagder: no .bl either
15:33:26Bagderodd
15:33:45Bagderwell, they might have a fine installed already
15:33:55Bagderjust that it makes it harder to decrypt them
15:34:28Lynx_Bagder: there is a $Plugins dir in the installer also, with some .dll files. but i guess that has nothing to do with the firmware.
15:34:45Bagderno, nothing we care about at least
15:36:55Lynx_Bagder: are you planning to port rockbox to 23 similar targets at once? ;)
15:37:03Bagderyes!
15:37:05Bagderhehe
15:37:13Bagderthey're not that similar unfortunately
15:37:25daurn|laphow do i find out about my rtc?
15:37:44 Quit gtkspert (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
15:37:47Bagderdaurn|lap: analyze your PCB, dissasemble firmware, guess...
15:37:52Bagderor just ignore it for now
15:38:22daurn|lap.//ignore
15:38:24daurn|lap:P
15:41:10BagderLynx_: but I've at least opened the door for 23 new targets!
15:41:23BagderI should say MrH has
15:41:23 Quit TCK (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
15:41:28daurn|lapplease xplain BATTERY_CAPACITY_DEFAULT
15:41:36Bagderdaurn|lap: ignore for now
15:41:54Lynx_Bagder: is it really so many?
15:42:11BagderI have 20 mentioned on my mi4 page
15:42:22BagderI bet we can easily find a bunch more
15:42:28Lynx_Bagder: and who is MrH?
15:42:40Bagderhe's an anonymous source of much hacking wisdom
15:43:05Lynx_ah. you'd think MrX would be more appropriate then.
15:43:21Bagderwe throw the hardest nuts to him and he comes back with the algorithm and code to decrypt ;-)
15:43:46Bagderand I'm left to edit HTML
15:43:57Lynx_hehe
15:44:38Lynx_is he on the forums?
15:44:45Bagdernope
15:44:56Bagderonly by private mail
15:45:03Lynx_i see. you exchange messages hidden under a park bench.
15:45:16Bagderyeah, at midnight
15:45:26daurn|lapcould you help me with keypad thing(s)?
15:45:28Lynx_:)
15:47:06Bagderdaurn|lap: define a keypad type for your target
15:49:02tucozMr Z was a famous man in the old days of the 64, iirc
15:49:18Bagderyeps
15:49:36Bagderswedish he was
15:49:38tucozhe wrote turbo tape 64, right?
15:49:42bluebrotherdamn, I hate users that can't read :(
15:49:47Bagderyeah and cracked a zillion games
15:49:47tucozor was it another compression
15:49:58Bagder"cracked by mr z"
15:50:15*tucoz gets nostalgic
15:50:21Bagderhe was a friend of a friend
15:50:45tucozcool. So I have chatted with mr z's friends friend :)
15:50:57Bagderhehe
15:52:39tucozBagder, is this the one? http://noname.c64.org/csdb/scener/?id=8072
15:52:50Bagderyeps
15:53:04tucozhis cracking cv sure is impressive
15:53:16Bagderyeah
15:53:37zeBagder: what're these 23 potential new targets?
15:53:51Bagderze: pp based ones: http://daniel.haxx.se/sansa/mi4.html
15:54:06bluebrotherwas it intended the horizontal scrolling got removed with the new button stuff?
15:54:16zeBagder: cool
15:55:00zeBagder: aww, not the karma though? or maybe?
15:55:17Bagderthat's not PP is it?
15:55:21zeyep
15:55:22Zagorkarma is not pp
15:55:34zethe portalplayer chip right?
15:55:35linuxstbIt's the PP5003 IIRC...
15:55:45zeor one version of it rather
15:55:49zelinuxstb: something like that, yeah
15:56:06Bagderze: you know if there's any mi4 for the karma anywhere?
15:56:11Zagorif you say so :-)
15:56:16Bagderpossibly they didn't do it mi4-style back then
15:56:31zeBagder: i never even heard of mi4 till just now
15:56:37zeso i'll have to figure out what its about and look into it
15:56:41Zagorpp5020 according to wikipedia
15:56:44Zagorhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PortalPlayer
15:56:57zeZagor: yeah thats what i was thinking
15:57:42daurn|laparg
15:57:45daurn|lapthis is shitting me
15:57:46daurn|lap:S
15:57:54daurn|lapthe src is so hard to follow
15:57:57ZagorInteresting. The karma has (had) quite a different firmware from most other pp players. that's why I thought it wasn't pp.
15:57:57daurn|lapTO MANY TARGETS
15:57:58daurn|lap:S
15:58:12linuxstbZagor: Don't believe wikipedia - they quote Rockbox's wiki as a reference to the fact the Karma has a PP5020. Googling will tell you it's a PP5003.
15:58:21Zagorlinuxstb: aha, ok
15:58:35linuxstb(and our wiki just says it uses a portalplayer chip)
15:58:51zeheh
15:58:56daurn|lapok, who wants to help a noob like me?
15:59:12zeim trying to find my riovolution forum thread where an ex-rio engineer said some specific stuff
15:59:15linuxstbIt must have been one of the first PP DAPs - and they went their own way.
15:59:39Bagderso its likely they didn't do it mi4-style
15:59:44ze:/
15:59:54Bagderbut checking doesn't hurt
15:59:54linuxstbInteresting link: http://tonytalkstech.com/2004/06/04/ogg-on-the-ipod/
16:00
16:00:57Zagoryeah, they did gapless, ogg flac etc.
16:01:12Bagder"The gen1/2 stored their code from flash, not SDRAM"
16:01:18Bagderfunny way of putting it ;-)
16:01:29daurn|lapcould you help me with keypad thing(s)?
16:01:36daurn|lapwell
16:01:46daurn|lapmainly with the whole - add a new target thing
16:03:45Mikachuand this reply http://www.gizmodo.com/archives/ogg-vorbis-on-ipod-a-rebuttal-015738.php
16:05:20zeweird, my thread seems to have disappeared... i wonder why, there still seems to be older posts of mine on there...
16:07:00zeman, why doesn't the wayback machine have anything that takes parameters :/
16:07:04Zagorze: probably just a conspiracy
16:07:26linuxstbMikachu: We should contact Monty and challenge him to prove it by optimising the Rockbox Tremor implementation for us...
16:07:32Mikachu:)
16:07:40zeZagor: maybe an ex-rio engineer posted a reply they shouldn't have :p
16:07:47Mikachunot likely if gcc can beat him at optimising arm
16:07:53linuxstb:)
16:08:35Zagorwell he did write about asm, not arm
16:08:38linuxstbAlso, isn't ARM720 significantly more powerful than arm7tdmi?
16:09:20Zagormeh, I suck at reading today...
16:09:30Zagorif you want me, I'll be in that corner −−−−−−−−>
16:09:30preglowMikachu: doesn't happen often...
16:09:39 Quit daurn|lap (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
16:09:58 Join daurn|lap [0] (n=quae@124.243.137.107)
16:11:14zewhoa, google's got it cached
16:12:16ze"If you did manage to, the one hint I can give you is that the 5003 chip in the Karma is closer (in terms of register locations) to the 5020 in the gen 4 ipod than the 5002 in the gen1,2,3 iPods."
16:12:22zenow that thats old news :p
16:12:51linuxstbAnyone have a Karma firmware?
16:13:30*amiconn just had an idea how to optimise the serial data transfer for the remote lcds on coldfire (Irivers and X5) even more than it already is for the Irivers :)
16:13:33zewell i've got a karma :p
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16:14:03amiconnI'll use a technique that could be called "binary derivative" ...
16:14:30zelinuxstb: the biggest problem with the karma still, afaik is
16:14:33zelinuxstb: "a big hurdle is that the firmware updates are encrypted which means it's hard to load anything onto the unit - and it's unlikely that anyone would be able to give authorisation to release this information now."
16:15:01zenot just "encrypted", i guess that line doesn't say but i was later told its public-key encrypted
16:15:08daurn|lapok, who wants to help a noob like me?
16:15:15daurn|lapwell
16:15:17daurn|lapmainly with the whole - add a new target thing
16:15:21linuxstbze: Is there any demand for Rockbox on the Karma? I thought the original firmware was very well liked?
16:15:57zelinuxstb: it is in general, but its got some bugs and really doesn't fulfill the device's potential
16:16:30zelinuxstb: and now that rio's dead, thats sortof a indefinite condition without a replacement
16:16:52bluebrothertucoz, I gave the "blurry images" issue a shot −− what do you think of that values? http://pastebin.ca/137582
16:16:55linuxstbdaurn|lap: How far have you got? Have you edited tools/configure ?
16:17:08daurn|lapyes
16:17:20daurn|lapi've just finished with ata registers
16:17:27daurn|lap - i'm not doing anything in order
16:17:27daurn|lap:P
16:17:38preglowblurry images?
16:17:46daurn|lapwhere are all the hardware regs kept?
16:18:03daurn|lapones i'm doing now are: firmware\target\arm\archos\gmini402
16:18:13daurn|lapcopied from ix5
16:18:21preglowwhat cpu does gmini502 use?
16:18:24preglow402 <-
16:18:28linuxstbdaurn|lap: You should at least copy another ARM target...
16:18:34bluebrotherpreglow, see http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/5620 −− on the large sized daps the images get scaled pretty heavily which looks ... blurry.
16:18:34Bagderpreglow: tms320dm320
16:18:42tucozbluebrother, looks good. Apart from the fact that images do not look blurry when using acrobat
16:18:43daurn|laplinuxstb: ix5 is arm
16:18:51daurn|lapfuck
16:18:52daurn|lapi mean
16:18:57preglowbluebrother: isn't there a way to tell the display driver that you don't want interpolation?
16:18:57daurn|lapi copied from iriver h10
16:19:02daurn|lapall these is
16:19:03daurn|lap:S
16:19:03tucozbluebrother, this is a xpdf problem right?
16:19:08bluebrothertucoz, I don't have acrobat installed ;-)
16:19:09mirak_daurn|lap you are porting to gmini ?
16:19:12daurn|lap"i"s
16:19:14mirak_40
16:19:16daurn|lapmirak: trying
16:19:17mirak_402
16:19:38bluebrotherI'm not sure if it's only xpdf. But the screenshot text becomes pretty unreadable on manuals like the video.
16:19:57bluebrotherso I think increasing the size would be the best. Think of users who print the manual ...
16:19:59tucozbluebrother, no. But there is another open source pdf viewer (do not remember the name) that works better than xpdf
16:20:04mirak_maybe I would have bought that one if there was rockbox. it was a serious contender but I bought H300 instead
16:20:12daurn|lapheh
16:20:16daurn|lap402 is great
16:20:16linuxstbdaurn|lap: If I was you, I would just get a bootloader compiling (adding empty functions everywhere as needed), and then gradually start filling them in.
16:20:29tucozbluebrother, if people print the manual, then we will not have this problem as a printer uses more dpi compared to a screen
16:20:30linuxstb(I mean a bootloader that doesn't actually do anything...)
16:20:34Mikachubluebrother: have you tried evince?
16:20:45preglowtucoz: the printer driver might very well still interpolate the picture
16:20:49daurn|laplinuxstb: well, where is hardware registers like RAM, Screen etc?
16:20:50tucozpreglow, ok
16:20:57preglowbut it's not so much of a problem in general, no
16:21:01mirak_some guy showed me a video on the gmini402, that's really smooth, but the screen seemed less quality than the H300
16:21:42daurn|lapmirak: best thing is it has divx nativky - just download a vid from the "reggular" places, and it can play it (99% of the time)
16:21:52tucozbluebrother, but if you think it works fine and it solves a common problem. I think you can commit that.
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16:22:17daurn|laplinuxstb?
16:22:36linuxstbdaurn|lap: I'm not sure where any RAM initialisation would go, but anything to do with the screen will go in something like lcd-gmini.c - the LCD drivers are split into two parts, a high-level framebuffer drawing part which depends on the format of the LCD (e.g. lcd-16bit.c) and a low-level driver (e.g. lcd-ipodvideo.c).
16:22:37tucozIt will probably waste one or two pages, but that is no biggie as long as people find the manual more usable
16:22:41bluebrotherevince is a bit better but "blurry" while xpdf is kindof pixelated.
16:23:12daurn|laplinuxstb: i just want the file all the adresses are in
16:23:13daurn|lapS:
16:23:17tucozlet me check with acrobat
16:23:38linuxstbdaurn|lap: Then you want the linker file - firmware/boot.lds for the bootlaoder, firmware/app.lds for Rockbox itself.
16:23:57bluebrotherto quote that task up to now they are "to the point of being unreadable" so I guess this would be the best.
16:24:05amiconnlinuxstb: Speaking about lcd-16bit.c - in case we get HWM for the H300 and X5 lcd controller going, it might be desirable to flip the framebuffer for those devices, needing different drawing routines.
16:24:26tucozbluebrother, yes. That is of course not what we want
16:24:30amiconnThat would probably mean we will have two of them...
16:24:34daurn|lapo fuck
16:24:45daurn|lapi'll need a good coder's help for this part
16:24:52linuxstbWhat do you mean by flip? Write "columns" of pixels to the LCD instead of rows?
16:25:24amiconnYes
16:25:36linuxstbdaurn|lap: Or just patience... It took me a long time to understand all this when I started the ipod port.
16:25:49bluebrotherwow, there's a package of acroread available for my system...
16:25:56amiconnThe lcd controller has a special high speed mode where you have to write in multiple of 4 pixels, but it's twice as fast as the normal mode
16:26:04daurn|laplinuxstb: or - you could help me ;)
16:26:33tucozbluebrother, I guess you can commit that. When looking at a screenshot in 100% view. It is blurry
16:26:37amiconnThe problem is that the high speed mode doesn't support the update direction setting, but always updates rows (as seen by the controller)
16:27:24amiconn..and the LCD is mounted "vertical", i.e. controller rows are columns as seen by the dap user
16:27:33preglowshould we call the h1x0 button navi or select? manual seems to call it select, lang files call it navo
16:27:41preglownavi, yes
16:27:46tucozbluebrother, but this also raises another issue. The current screenshots use the same font for all targets (which is the case for rockbox in general). I would propose that icatcher or whatever as standard
16:27:50*amiconn votes Select
16:27:52 Quit Caliban (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
16:28:06tucozpreglow, the manual calls it navi. However, the picture of the h1x0 still calls it select
16:28:25preglowwas talking about the picture, yes :>
16:28:38tucozThe reason we call it navi, is that it's called navi in the manual for the iriver fw.
16:28:47daurn|lapselect
16:28:47preglowah, right
16:28:50preglowthen lets go for navi
16:28:54amiconntucoz: For the H1x0 as well?
16:29:03tucozamiconn, yes. LinusN said so
16:29:09amiconnAh ok then
16:29:23preglowmanual's looking good
16:29:34bluebrothertucoz, do we have the player pictures available somewhere without the button names?
16:29:45preglowwhat would do the ipod 5g screenshots a world of good is a better font
16:29:50tucozbluebrother, there are some in the Comparison table
16:29:54tucozin the wiki
16:30:05tucoznot that hires for the h1xx
16:30:07preglowit's _TINY_
16:30:08bluebrothermaybe we could set the names differently ... like using pstricks (don't know them, but who knows)
16:30:21 Quit nudelyn2 ("At Argon, we're working to keep your money.")
16:31:00tucozpreglow, no kidding. I think a resolution specific default font is quite hi priority. But that's me :)
16:31:15preglowi've always thought that, but we're mostly coders here...
16:31:26amiconntucoz: The H140 pic is hires
16:31:39amiconn..'cause it's a scan
16:31:54tucozamiconn, ok. great :)
16:32:02amiconnAh, no, the version in the comparison table is only medium resolution
16:32:12amiconn..but I should still have the original
16:32:39linuxstbamiconn: So I'm guessing we'll need two versions of lcd-16bit.c, unless we can work out how to do the same on all targets?
16:32:52tucozbut maybe that is enough. We do not want too hi res either. As that will make the manual increase in size too much.
16:34:07amiconnMy original file is 851x1430 pixel PNG (300 dpi at original size)
16:34:18amiconn1.2MB
16:34:38tucozsounds great. The comparison table picture is a jpg iirc.
16:34:55amiconnYes, for faster display and better browser support
16:35:03amiconnwant the png?
16:35:08tucozamiconn, yes please
16:36:12tucozthank you
16:37:10bluebrothertucoz, committed.
16:38:01tucozcool
16:38:02zehmm how many colors does the table have?
16:38:19tucozbluebrother, I'll fix the h140front image then
16:38:24 Quit Mmmm ("CGI:IRC")
16:38:47zejpeg and rgb-png both sound like odd choices if it can be indexed color
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16:39:37tucozbluebrother, and I can use the mini scan from the comparison table
16:40:14amiconnI also have several other scans (as png or tif)
16:40:43bluebrothertucoz, nice. I'd still would prefer it if we could set the description directly using Tex
16:40:45jhMikeSI was wondering if I should continue down the path of consolidating the codec and format info from various places into a single structure array. It should make things easier to maintain and save some memory.
16:40:54daurn|lapwho are the rockbox devs here?
16:41:01tucozok. But the mini is hires, and it looks like it is without jpg artifacts
16:41:15daurn|lapBagder, amiconn, linuxstb, LinusN, who else?
16:41:16bluebrotherbut that's pretty low priority. But it's on my todo list ;-)
16:41:26jhMikeSdaurn|lap: I might be too :)
16:41:28tucozbluebrother, like overlay the keys to the image?
16:41:43bluebrotheryes, like that. Maybe xfig can help us doing that.
16:41:57daurn|lapjhMikeS: ORLY
16:42:04linuxstbjhMikeS: What codec and format info do you mean?
16:42:13jhMikeSdarun|lap: I have a badge
16:42:16Mikachudaurn|lap: http://www.rockbox.org/viewcvs.cgi/docs/CREDITS?rev=1.172&content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup
16:42:35tucozbluebrother, we could just commit a layered gimp image until then
16:42:39linuxstbjhMikeS: One thing to pay attention to is the split between hwcodec and swcodec platforms - it may not be possible to unify things because of that.
16:42:42daurn|lapMikachu: i want it with irc nicks
16:42:43daurn|lap:P
16:42:48jhMikeSlinuxstb: the labels and codec filenames in sync with the AFMT_* enum
16:42:53bluebrotherhmm. That's an option.
16:43:02jhMikeSlinuxstb: I have that covered :)
16:43:11linuxstbjhMikeS: Then it seems sensible to me.
16:43:31jhMikeSlinuxstb: There are no *.codec file for HW codec players right?
16:43:38linuxstbjhMikeS: Right.
16:43:42linuxstb(yet...)
16:43:52jhMikeSCovered that too.
16:43:58tucozamiconn, we miss scans of the ipod4g, ipod color, ipod video, ipod nano and the x5
16:44:16jhMikeSlinuxstb: just some simple macro changes is all
16:44:39jhMikeSdepending on CONFIG_CODEC and such
16:44:48daurn|lapANYWAY
16:44:55daurn|lapwho can help me?
16:44:56daurn|lap:S
16:45:32markundaurn|lap: did you create a config file in firmware/export ?
16:45:39daurn|lapyes
16:45:49jhMikeSdaurn|lap: ORLY- my name is there if you doubt it. :)
16:46:01amiconntucoz: Hmm. I only have mini g2, ipod color (not perfect but usable), and several archos scans
16:46:10amiconnOh, and H340
16:46:10linuxstbdaurn|lap: Then you just need to try and build a bootloader for your target, and fix the problems one by one...
16:46:52daurn|lap:S
16:47:15Bg3ranyone willing to test the new iriver keymaps ?
16:47:25Bg3ri gotta go, but it's on the ButtonActionIdea wiki page
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16:47:48 Join fatherfork [0] (n=fatherfo@adsl-224-18-195.asm.bellsouth.net)
16:47:54amiconnAnd I made actual photos of (back then) all my targets (7) showing a faked rockbox 3.0 booting
16:48:06amiconnI could add an 8th target
16:48:07jhMikeSlinuxstb: Any opinion about the best file to contain that structure? I'm neurotically indecisive.
16:48:09amiconnnow
16:48:32tucozamiconn, ok. Then could make use of the player, recorder, and the recorderv2fm
16:48:47tucoz*I
16:49:49amiconnThe scans?
16:50:20tucozscans or photos. If you think they could work in the manual that is
16:50:46linuxstbjhMikeS: What are your options?
16:50:53tucozand also the ipod color :)
16:52:35jhMikeSlinuxstb: I suppose id3.c, playback.c or codecs.c. Something else maybe? Can always move it later.
16:53:05amiconnid3.c is used on hwcodec
16:53:53jhMikeSIt needs to be there for both, yes.
16:54:06tucozamiconn, thank you very much
16:54:57jhMikeSamiconn: That's the only one of those files thats for both?
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16:55:39amiconnjhMikeS: Yes, currently
16:56:33 Join Febs [0] (n=40be240f@labb.contactor.se)
16:57:31tucozlinuxstb, do you have a scan of the video?
16:58:54amiconnYes, but a very dark one of a black video -> you see a black picture with white text where the wheel is
16:59:13amiconnAhem, I got that scan from linuxstb
16:59:36tucozhehe. Hmm. But maybe it is possible to tweak it a little.
16:59:50amiconnOk, I'll send it
17:00
17:00:00tucozthanks
17:00:07amiconnBut one of the 5 others need to finish first (I only mapped 5 ports for dcc send)
17:00:23tucozok
17:00:39linuxstbtucoz: As amiconn mentioned, my scans are not the best....
17:00:39 Quit theli_ua (Remote closed the connection)
17:01:05amiconnThe ipod color scan is also from linuxstb, but that one is better
17:01:06tucozlinuxstb, I'll see if I can make use of it for the manual in any case.
17:03:05 Quit Zagor ("Client exiting")
17:03:43tucozthe 4g and the color are very similar, right?
17:04:09linuxstbtucoz: The problem with my 5g is that the wheel is a shiny black, and the rest of the ipod is a matt black. So my scanner didn't pick up the difference very well..
17:04:16tucozin that case, I only miss the nano and the x5
17:04:34tucozah. I think I have seen that scan some time ago.
17:04:36amiconnI should be able to provide an X5 scan next week
17:04:42tucoznice
17:04:50linuxstbtucoz: There are ipod pictures here: http://ipodlinux.org/Generations (not usable for you, but it will show the differences)
17:05:50linuxstbtucoz: The two generations of Mini look slightly different (the colour of the writing matches the case on the 2nd Gen), but maybe that can be ignored.
17:06:04tucozI think so
17:06:12tucozso is the case for the h1xx series
17:06:47*amiconn should also have an Ondio scan somewhere...
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17:10:02tucozboth the fm and the sp scan suffer from jpg artifacts, so that could be useful
17:12:48***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
17:16:57preglowin the manual part about the channels setting
17:17:11preglowis the last opt line before the table really necessary?
17:17:23preglowi'm just doing some minor rewriting and it seems redundant
17:17:28tucozwhere is that?
17:17:32preglowsound settings
17:18:02 Quit mantono (Remote closed the connection)
17:18:18preglowi don't like the references to "mixing" everywhere in it
17:18:23preglowthe ordinary user might not know what mixing is
17:18:33tucozhehe, you are right
17:18:58preglowi also found the volume description somewhat confusing, so i'm rewriting that a bit
17:19:28tucozgood. I have a half baked approach to a better crossfeed description.
17:19:35preglowbut that is perfect!
17:19:35tucozcrossfade
17:19:35preglow:P
17:19:38preglowahh, crossfade
17:19:41preglowi didn't write that, heh
17:20:33fatherforkcall crossfeed crossfade, what?
17:20:51markunfatherfork: what?
17:20:56fatherforknothing...
17:21:01Mikachunothing what?
17:21:05markun:)
17:21:08fatherforkwhat nothing?
17:21:31fatherforknothing... master.
17:21:33fatherforkbetter?
17:21:44ShadowdogMUYay DNS went through!
17:22:00ShadowdogMUNow I just need an idea for a new domain, what am I going ot put on it
17:22:47fatherforkI still like on the brocks
17:23:11Mikachuwhy would you buy a domain before you know what to do?
17:23:55ShadowdogMUI still haven't bought the domain
17:23:55billytwowillywhat domain is it?
17:25:32ShadowdogMUbillytwowilly, dunno yet
17:25:35ShadowdogMUgotta think of one
17:25:39ShadowdogMUand what to put on it
17:26:06*billytwowilly recommends funkymonkeyjunky.com
17:28:02billytwowillyI learned something interesting about italian people researching a racial slur today. Did you know the moors went on a conquest throughout italy in the 9th century and because of that most italians have black people atleast in part as their ancestors? (the moors were black)
17:28:32billytwowillyinteresting stuff.
17:31:06 Join apo` [0] (n=apo@dslb-084-057-067-064.pools.arcor-ip.net)
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17:33:11 Quit Mancer (" Try HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-")
17:38:50preglowTALES - OF - INTEREST
17:42:30preglowHowever, the sound from the left speaker reaches your left ear slightly later than the sound from your right ear <- what was i drinking?
17:42:59 Quit RydellFireDragon ("back to work")
17:43:12fatherforkwhatever is was, I want some
17:44:52Mikachupreglow: heh
17:46:31Mikachui wonder if it would be possible to apply hrtf in realtime
17:46:46xorAxAxpreglow: you have weird ears :)
17:46:52Mikachuhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HRTF
17:47:06preglowxorAxAx: mine emit sound, apparently