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#rockbox log for 2006-09-13

00:00:11linuxstb_Yes, I would bet money on it being the same PP/Broadcom combination inside.
00:01:01Bagderit'd surprise me if they changed that
00:01:54BagderI mean given the looks and specs
00:02:02linuxstb_A new LCD wouldn't surprise me though...
00:02:44Bagderthe LCD seems to be changed since they mention a brighter one
00:02:53Bagderbut it might still be controlled the same way
00:03:02linuxstb_gopp: Go on, install Rockbox...
00:05:28dionoealinuxstb_: he doesn't have one :( bad joke
00:05:58linuxstb_You mean someone lied to me on the internet?
00:06:00SeymourGlassdunno , maybe its just me , but screen seems a bit brighter on full brightness as it used to be
00:07:10SeymourGlassI turn it down to 1/3 of brightness
00:07:14 Quit maara (" Like's GUI? Then try HydraIRC -> <-")
00:09:17Avewill rockbox work with the revamped ipod nano product line?
00:09:27hardeephmmm, ipod video may still be same/similar hardware but it sounds like the nano is different
00:09:33BagderAve: possibly, yes
00:09:34Ave"everything is changed but the name" .. really now
00:09:54SeymourGlasswho care apod nano, when it reaches at least 20gb mark I might consider it a player
00:09:56Aveif only it was just a cosmetic upgrade
00:10:05BagderI wonder if they went PP5024 on the new nano...
00:10:22Avewell I have 2G nano and its pretty spiffy for the size
00:10:41Avethe "tens of gigs" models are just way too bulky
00:10:50 Quit ender` (" I'd kill for a Nobel Peace Prize.")
00:10:51preglowBagder: doubt it
00:10:53Aveand fragile
00:10:59linuxstb_Bagder: That seems unlikely - would need a lot of firmware changes...
00:11:22BagderI would assume that they mostly need a new set of libs from PP
00:11:28Bagderbut you're right, its not likely
00:12:20linuxstb_I guess we'll find out in the next few days - people are sure to try Rockbox or IPL on them soon (or dissect them and publish photos).
00:12:42Bagderthat's the benefit of a high profile player
00:12:58preglowi want the bloody runtime issues solved
00:13:14preglowi don't think cpu usage is the only key
00:13:21Bagderme neither
00:13:33BagderI think its some initializing/HW usage
00:14:08Bagderin a similar style how that was the key to runtime issues on h300 and x5
00:14:13 Quit apo` (Remote closed the connection)
00:14:34Arathissometimes scrolling goes just till the end and than scrolls back to start and doesn't scroll thourgh. can I make this static? or is it really just when the line isn't long enough and there would be a bigger space?
00:15:58 Join apo` [0] (i=apo@gateway/tor/x-9de4edb19e212adb)
00:19:26 Quit bluebrother ("Leaving")
00:21:13 Join XavierGr [0] (
00:23:38 Join JoeBorn [0] (
00:23:59 Quit Criamos ("( :: NoNameScript 4.03 :: )")
00:24:53midkayArathis: check Bidirectional Scroll Limit in the scrolling menu.
00:25:06midkayi think 0% means it always loops, if that's what you want.
00:25:16Arathisfor WPS?
00:25:40Arathissorry, I didn't mention it. I just wanted it a a specific line in the WPS
00:26:00midkaythe higher the number, the longer the string can be before it decides to loop it.. e.g. 25% means that the string can be 25% wider than the LCD and it will go back and forth, otherwise loop..
00:26:04midkayfor one line? you can't do that.
00:28:56 Join webguest58 [0] (i=c33ae48c@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
00:31:00Arathismidkay: I think some works on the WPS creation is still needed :(
00:31:42midkayArathis: most definitely.. but it's very flexible as-is, i'm not aware of any other player that lets you change a single thing about the playing screen :) why do you need that, can i ask?
00:32:13webguest58excuse me, but how can i install boot loader for H-10 20 Gb? there is no info in manual =(
00:33:09webguest58ok, thks
00:33:54Arathismidkay: for usability issues. I have a line for next track lformated "artist - track" and with normal scrolling it isn't that good to read because the space between ending and start is quite short
00:35:00midkayyou could always put a few spaces after the %ia - %it, e.g. "%ia - %it " so that there's a larger space when it does scroll, and when it doesn't scroll you can't see the spaces..
00:35:04Arathisalso positioning of progressbar isn't as fexible as I'd like it to be. only full line positioning for text at all isn't that designerfriendly too. :/
00:35:40midkayArathis: right, that aspect is hard because the WPS is entirely line-based otherwise.. making the progress bar x/y positionable introduces a bit of confusion i think.. that and it simply hasn't been done :)
00:35:57midkayentirely line-based except for bitmaps, that is..
00:36:19Arathistried that, but then when a artist+track text is short enough not to scrall even with the spaces at the end and align is center its left and lokks terrible..
00:36:29 Part Paul_The_Nerd
00:36:42midkayalign center, i see...
00:37:02midkayno way out really then.. i also agree that the space is too short though. that should be changed globally..
00:37:05Arathisprogressbar isn't x/y positionable. only line, hight and x1-x2 ;)
00:37:07midkaywhat about a space on each side or so?
00:37:19midkayArathis: exactly, that's why i said it'd be a problem to MAKE it x/y positionable. :)
00:37:31Arathisahh ^^
00:37:34mirak_amiconn: I get 0,4 fps in plus by doing the trick of inverting row and columns I talked about
00:38:03midkayArathis: so, have you tried a space on each side? " %ia - %it ".
00:38:15midkaythey should cancel each other out..
00:39:25Arathismidkay: for my WPS I had a square where current trackinfo is shown and I wanted it to be 3px from screenborder left and right which worked cause it's an image, but the text scrolled over the square border xD
00:40:01midkayArathis: aha.. those borders are also tricky.. but that's an entirely different problem from not having a far enough distance between a looping line.. :)
00:40:04Arathis..but would make small text scroll just because of the spaces. I'll leave it as is for now
00:40:32midkayArathis: it'd have to be so close to being long enough to scroll that you wouldn't even notice..
00:40:44midkaya space is only a few pixels.
00:41:17Arathisif my tracks all had the same name that would work, but the are named too different to work like this everytime
00:41:38Arathisone pixel sometimes is even too much ;)
00:41:43midkayhuh? two spaces total means the same exact distance regardless of the length of the name..
00:41:48Arathiswoo, bad grammer ..
00:42:08midkayso you're saying that you can tell if one pixel is causing the line to scroll? why does it matter then?
00:42:16Arathiswas speaking about the scrollproblem coming with this
00:42:27midkayand the scrollproblem is.. what?
00:42:40Arathiswhat you said right now
00:43:09Arathisa bit complicated. perhaps I'm already too tired right now. sry
00:43:31midkaya one-pixel difference? but my point is why does it matter? if it's only one pixel away from having to scroll, what's the problem with scrolling it? :)
00:45:16Arathisno, I ment it could be one pixel above scrolling so it scrolls one pixel left and back again
00:45:40Arathisdiscussion in a foreign language when being tired can be confusing ..
00:46:21Arathisbtw: you can't change the font for one line, do you? ..
00:46:47nudelynthe "this is part of a gapless album" tag in itunes doesn't seem to be needed for gapless playback of the album if crossfading is disabled globally. probably does just disable crossfading when playing the album, if crossfading is turned on globally.
00:46:58BagderArathis: nope
00:47:28amiconnmirak_: (1) That's with the idct block in IRAM or DRAM? (2) How many fps do you reach now (and with what video)?
00:47:49mirak_that's with dct block still in sdram
00:47:56mirak_on a video of mine
00:48:16mirak_not full screen, that's 16/9
00:48:22 Quit Kohlrabi ("Quit")
00:48:36mirak_I doubt we can ever have a full screen video at 25fps :-/
00:48:39Arathismy playback time is on pixel on top within the bottom of my progressbar and if I place it one line below it just doesn't look right. And because I can't place the prograssbar where I want there is no solution for this :(
00:48:54nudelyngah, used to the rockbox controls, keep skipping tracks when i mean to enter menus :)
00:50:03midkayArathis: if you set Bidirectional Scroll Limit to 0%, no line will ever scroll back and forth. :)
00:50:14linuxstb_mirak: What FPS do you get with your video with the CVS version of Rockbox?
00:52:39mirak_amiconn: ok using the movem as much as possible including loading all row in one shot gave 1 fps boost.
00:52:57mirak_linuxstb: something around 13.5
00:52:59Arathisokay, scaled the progressbar, now progresbar and tracktime touch each other but won't cross :)
00:53:08mirak_I mean the peak at some point in the video
00:53:19Arathiswee. just finished my first WPS :D
00:53:22mirak_I get 2 fps overall
00:53:36mirak_with all the asm, and without iram for the block.
00:54:41 Quit matsl (Remote closed the connection)
00:54:48mirak_is there a shift that rotate bits ?
00:56:05 Quit preglow ("leaving")
00:57:22 Join preglow [0] (n=thomjoha@rockbox/developer/preglow)
00:58:25mirak_linuxstb: the yuv to rgb could benefit of asm a lot
01:01:02amiconnmirak_: It would be more interesting to know the speedup with the idct block in iram
01:01:40amiconnI guess that's what we want, as it gives more speedup than the asm idct by itself
01:01:55amiconnAnd the yuv->rgb conversion is already assembler optimised
01:02:03amiconnlcd_yuv_blit() in the core
01:04:22amiconnmirak_: Coldfire has no bit rotation instruction, unlike cisc m68k
01:04:46 Join barrywardell [0] (n=barrywar@
01:05:42Arathishow can I make screendump in the UIsim? or do I need to make a screenshot?
01:07:47linuxstb_Just press F5
01:08:05LandusGotta question.
01:08:21LandusUnder the debug menu, what does screendump do?
01:08:34Arathislinuxstb: thanks!
01:09:13linuxstb_Landus: It turns on screendump mode - screendumps are then made whenever you insert the usb cable.
01:09:13 Quit webguest58 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
01:09:35LandusWhere are they put?
01:11:07***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:14:00 Join Wallakoala [0] (
01:14:13LandusIs there a way to make changes to ID3 tags with Rockbox?
01:14:15Wallakoalacan someone tell me real quick: is video supported on the ipod w/ video yet?
01:15:03 Join thick [0] (n=gr81@
01:15:54thickdoes anyone know some good resources where i can get a nice themes for my h340?
01:16:10scorchethick: the wiki
01:16:12thickthat are fully compatable with a RockBox Daily CVS firmware
01:16:50scorcheWallakoala: it is beginning to be fully supported...atm it only supports m2v files, but it is a work in progress
01:17:07LandusWallakoala: I believe there's limited MPEG support with Rockbox, but it's nothing worth bragging and sound doesn't work.
01:17:27thicki downloaded many
01:17:27thickbut they looks ugly
01:17:41scorchethen find one that doesnt
01:17:43*scorche shrugs
01:17:51 Quit Wallakoala (Client Quit)
01:18:24thickscorche, yea, i've checked it
01:18:42scorchewell, that is *the* place for them
01:19:00Arathisthick: and
01:19:08scorcheif you find that none of those fit your taste, you can always make your own
01:19:15thickthanks for the second url
01:20:19thickyes, i know that, but im too lazy
01:20:24thickfor doing it
01:20:30 Quit barrywardell ()
01:21:25Landusthick: I use a patched status window on my iriver so I can run a decent theme/custom WPS/backdrop that's meant for iPods running Rockbox.
01:21:39 Join BHSPitMonkey_ [0] (
01:21:53LandusActually, I haven't updated in several months, so as soon as the recent build is done downloading, I'm going to start fiddling around.
01:22:57 Quit spiorf ("Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)")
01:23:19thickLandus, actually what build you are using?
01:23:24thicknot a cvs?
01:23:24LandusLet me check.
01:23:29thickso u build it by urself?
01:23:52LandusBuild from July 28th this year.
01:24:06LandusI download the source, apply the patches, then build it.
01:25:13thickhm, daily rockbox cvs version doesn't include them?
01:25:42LandusCVS is bleeding edge. There may be problems. I don't use the CVS versions.
01:26:17thicki thought cvs and bleeding edge versions are not the same
01:26:50LandusCVS and bleeding edge versions are the same.
01:27:05LandusWhen you get the CVS version, you get the most current, up-to-date version there is.
01:27:17thicki mean builds
01:27:23LandusWhich also may have inherent bugs and problems that haven't been noticed.
01:28:24thickso patches are external?
01:29:48LandusIt makes changes to the source.
01:31:39Arathisdo I need to register at the wiki just for uploading a theme? and how can I upload at
01:32:34scorcheArathis: you need to register to make any changes, so yes...or get someone else to do it for you
01:33:06Arathiscould someone upload a the for me in the wiki? :)
01:33:43scorchePM me with all relevant details
01:34:24scorchealthough, it doesnt hurt much to register...and then you can make whatever changes whenever =)
01:34:42Arathispoint taken ;)
01:35:50Arathisbut how can I upload at
01:36:01scorchejust come back with your name so we can give you write priviledges
01:36:11scorchenot sure...i have never dealt with that site
01:37:40 Quit bbroke ("Chatzilla 0.9.75 [Firefox]")
01:40:02 Join DC [0] (
01:40:58 Part DC
01:41:58 Quit webguest29 ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
01:43:17Arathisscorche: DirkBierfeld is the name :)
01:45:14 Quit TCK (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:45:23 Quit stripwax (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:46:33LandusApparently, the change_status_bar_height patch isn't being developed anymore. Because of this, does anyone know how to change the position of the statusbar?
01:46:53scorcheArathis: all set
01:46:59LandusI'd look myself, but my C coding skills are nothing worth mentioning.
01:47:37 Quit linuxstb_ ("CGI:IRC")
01:47:40Arathisscorche: thanks
01:49:47 Join TCK [0] (
01:53:27 Quit lodesi ("leaving")
01:56:57 Join bilbravo [0] (
01:58:16ArathisI have the following tag combo: %ar%pp/%pe
01:58:46Arathisbut I can't figure out how to get this off the display border
01:59:20Arathistried to ad some spaces bhind it though that worked for %ar%pt , but it doesn't
01:59:25Arathisany suggestions?
02:01:09 Join Mikachu [0] (
02:06:00Arathissry, %ar%pt didn't work either
02:07:27LandusI can't figure out why this patch won't change the statusbar height.
02:11:25Arathisoh, now it works again oO
02:12:49newbywrong name
02:12:51 Nick newby is now known as newbyx86 (
02:15:06 Part thick ("leaving")
02:27:19 Quit apo` (Remote closed the connection)
02:27:24 Quit excitatory (Success)
02:27:41 Join apo` [0] (i=apo@gateway/tor/x-106149bb0314084c)
02:28:14LandusNow I'm pissed.
02:28:23Soapgo on
02:28:30LandusThat one forum mod.
02:28:46LandusThat keeps on getting 'topic locking happy'.
02:29:07LandusI've seen him lock topics for rather retarded reasons, but never had a reason to say anything until now.
02:29:19LandusNow, he's effecting me and problems I'm having with the Iriver source.
02:29:31Soapnot e
02:29:40LandusNoticed as soon as I typed it.
02:29:44LandusSomeone really needs to remove him as a mod.
02:30:48SoapYou posted a patching question in the Install forum.
02:30:52 Join excitatory [0] (
02:30:57LandusIt isn't an install forum.
02:31:17LandusOr just specifically that.
02:31:37LandusMy question pertains to JUST the Iriver source. Hence, why it's under the Iriver sub-forum.
02:31:38 Join Paul_The_Nerd [0] (
02:31:59Soapit IS an install forum.
02:32:10Landus- Getting Started / Installation / Removal
02:33:09Soapfrom the "POSTING IN THIS FORUM" sticky post
02:33:11Soap"This forum is for topics relating to the installation of Rockbox on Iriver models only. Once you have booted Rockbox succesfully, you should voice your concerns in other forums."
02:33:20LandusThat's a load of bull.
02:33:27Soapread by 266 people. Landus, you obviously aren't one of those 266.
02:33:27Paul_The_NerdWhat's a load of bull?
02:33:31Paul_The_NerdThat there are rules?
02:33:36LandusNo. Those rules.
02:33:51Paul_The_NerdWell, those rules were proposed several months ago
02:33:56LandusI've been asking questions posting replies for several months.
02:33:59Paul_The_NerdThey were stickied in the old general discussion before the reorganization
02:34:07LandusMaybe one of them related to installing.
02:34:08Paul_The_NerdThey went into affect after the reorganization
02:34:18Paul_The_NerdYou *did* notice the reorganization right?
02:34:18LandusThe rest were Iriver specific questions.
02:34:30LandusNow I'm beginning to see why the forums on MisticRiver are more active that the ones at rockbox.
02:34:32Paul_The_NerdYou have exactly 8 posts
02:34:37LandusI used PM's.
02:34:59Paul_The_NerdSo, what to PMs have to do with forum subsections?
02:35:15LandusYou asked that question.
02:35:19Paul_The_NerdOut of curiosity, if you have problems with Windows on a Dell computer, and you installed windows yourself, do you contact Dell, or Microsoft for support?
02:35:20LandusYou come up with an answer.
02:35:32Paul_The_Nerd"(7:33:51 PM) Landus: I've been asking questions posting replies for several months."
02:35:34LandusYou could contact either.
02:35:35Paul_The_Nerd"posting" replies
02:35:56Paul_The_NerdIf it's an actual Windows problem, you should look for Windows help first.
02:36:08LandusAh. So now you're going to be a literal pain in the ass.
02:36:21Paul_The_NerdNo, I'm saying that I can't read the *intent* of what you say. I have to read what you say.
02:36:29Paul_The_NerdUnfortunately, I can't read minds.
02:36:37Paul_The_NerdSimilar to your inability to read rules.
02:36:37LandusThen don't start trying.
02:36:52LandusOh. I can read them.
02:36:54Paul_The_NerdWhether you agree with the rules or not, by posting in our forums you've agreed to abide by them.
02:37:00Paul_The_NerdIf you don't abide by them, your posts will be locked.
02:37:01LandusBut I know they're a load of bull.
02:37:02Paul_The_NerdIt's fairly simple.
02:37:08Paul_The_NerdWhy is it a load of bull?
02:37:12LandusIt's why inactivity on the forums is decreasing.
02:37:18Paul_The_NerdYour question wasn't actually iRiver specfic
02:37:23LandusYes. It was.
02:37:31LandusGo load the source for an iPod.
02:37:33LandusThen Iriver.
02:37:41LandusThat's why it was under Iriver.
02:37:48Paul_The_Nerd"load the source" doesn't mean anything
02:38:13LandusI've seen questions similar to mine asked before under the Iriver sub-topic and no one started causing waves.
02:38:18Paul_The_NerdAnd "inactivity" is a load of bull. August, the month after the reorganization, had 1100 more posts than July
02:38:34Paul_The_NerdLandus: REORGANIZATION. Perhaps you missed it. It's no the same "iRiver" subforum as before.
02:38:52Paul_The_NerdThat's why there's a POSTING IN THIS FORUM post, and wasn't before.
02:39:04LandusHow many posts were about the status of the reorganization, rather than actual questions.
02:39:34Paul_The_NerdLess than 50
02:39:53Paul_The_NerdOkay, go find me 1100 questions about the reorganization.
02:40:06LandusI never said all 1100 were about the reorganization.
02:40:12LandusPlease stop putting words in my mouth, thanks.
02:40:18Paul_The_NerdI never said you did.
02:40:21Paul_The_NerdSo stop putting words in mine.
02:40:22LandusYes. You just did.
02:40:29Paul_The_NerdNo, I told you to find 1100 posts about it
02:40:37Paul_The_NerdThat doesn't say "you said there were 1100 posts about it" now does it?
02:40:48LandusYes. It does.
02:40:56Paul_The_NerdI don't see the word "said" anywhere
02:40:58LandusOtherwise, you wouldn't have asked the question.
02:41:07Paul_The_NerdMaybe my question had another purpose?
02:41:14Paul_The_NerdPerhaps if you think about it, you'll see it
02:41:22Paul_The_NerdIt relates to the original topic of the forum inactivity increasing.
02:41:33LandusYes. Of course.
02:41:48LandusIt's the dozens of topics being locked and being started again!
02:42:03Paul_The_NerdThe dozens of topics wouldn't ever be locked if people followed the rules.
02:42:09LandusWhether or not there's rules on it, the forums have gotten extremely retarded.
02:42:11Paul_The_NerdAre rule breaches supposed to be ignored?
02:42:22LandusIt's against the law to download music and movies.
02:42:27LandusDo people still ignore those laws?
02:42:30Paul_The_NerdI hate to tell you, but on average people who've spoken up about the new rules and reorganization have been in favour of it.
02:42:42Paul_The_NerdIt is *especially* beneficial to people who actually use the forums to find and collate bug reports.
02:43:01Paul_The_NerdLandus: And the people who do ignore those laws shouldn't complain if they actually get busted for it.
02:43:15LandusFew have.
02:43:20LandusActually, my mistake.
02:43:21Paul_The_NerdBy posting in our forums, you agree to the rules. You lose any sympathy from me.
02:43:30Paul_The_NerdIf you don't like the rules, leave.
02:43:34LandusI agreed to the way it used to work.
02:43:41LandusThere weren't any troubles.
02:43:49Paul_The_NerdThere were plenty of troubles
02:44:13Paul_The_NerdFor one, people would frequently bring up playback issues that affected all targets in multiple places because nobody realized the playback code, much like the UI code, is cross platform
02:44:43Paul_The_NerdThe idea of the existing forums is that the vast majority of the source is cross platform, and should be discussed based on what the code tries to DO, not what it's doing it ON.
02:45:03Paul_The_NerdIf you'd posted yours in the UI customization area, anyone who knows the UI code could've responded.
02:45:09LandusWhen a topic is locked because of a pathetic reason as mine was, there's a problem.
02:45:16Paul_The_NerdA pathetic reason?
02:45:27scorcheoh wow...
02:45:31Paul_The_Nerd"You didn't follow the POSTING IN THIS FORUM" is a pathetic reason how?
02:45:40Paul_The_NerdDid you knowingly break the rules, or did you not know the rules?
02:46:10LandusGo look at all the topics under the Iriver subtopic.
02:46:11nudelynCan't you move topics to the right place? Or is that not possible with the forum software?
02:46:13LandusNot all of them are about installing.
02:46:24LandusSo don't give me that excuse.
02:46:30Paul_The_Nerdnudelyn: It's plenty possible, and I'll move them if it's clear that the person misunderstood where it belongs. But this isn't such a case.
02:46:34 Join scottder [0] (
02:46:44Paul_The_NerdLandus: Many of them are also about running the software from Flash Memory.
02:46:47nudelynfair enough. i don't know the details
02:47:04LandusEven if I did agree, my topic wasn't moved.
02:47:11Paul_The_NerdLandus: And this isn't about those posts. This is about yours. Some of those posts are grandfathered, or various other reasons.
02:47:28Paul_The_NerdLandus: As I said, yours wasn't moved because it was clearly a case of you not even bothering to try to put it in the right place
02:47:34LandusYeah. Another forum that's hit rock bottom.
02:47:47Paul_The_NerdA post that would be moved would, for example, be one that has problems with "Voice" and puts it in "Playback" because they thought the audio in voice was a playback issue
02:48:05LandusThe problem was specific to the Iriver source.
02:48:14LandusThere isn't another subtopic that deals with the Iriver source.
02:48:15Paul_The_NerdThere is no "iRiver source"
02:48:21LandusYes. There is.
02:48:26Paul_The_NerdThere is the "Rockbox source" which has iRiver specific portions of it.
02:48:36LandusOh bloody hell.
02:48:52LandusThat doesn't even deserve a response.
02:49:08Paul_The_NerdIs it in an #ifdef block that makes it only compile for iRiver targets?
02:49:19Paul_The_NerdBecause I seriously doubt there's coldfire-specific status bar cod.e
02:49:36scorcheLandus: ever considered the compiling and development forums?
02:49:36LandusNope. Settings, statusbar, and several other things are different depending on what DAP is used.
02:50:00LandusAfter this, I doubt I'll ever look at the rockbox forums again.
02:50:05Mikachuwhat a loss
02:50:09LandusI've had better luck with MisticRiver in the past.
02:50:10Paul_The_NerdOh no. I'm crying. Really.
02:50:21Paul_The_NerdThe "Compiling" forum is there for source-code related questions
02:50:22Paul_The_NerdALL of them.
02:50:35Paul_The_NerdHere's the kicker. Rockbox is written in C
02:50:46LandusNo. Really.
02:50:47Paul_The_NerdEven if someone doesn't have your DAP, they can read the C and figure out what it's doing, and change it
02:50:59Paul_The_NerdMeaning iPod users can quite easily help you with your problem, even if it really *does* only apply to iRivers.
02:51:14Paul_The_NerdThat's why the compiling forum *doesn't* have platform specific questions
02:51:18LandusThey could, but the problem is still Iriver specific.
02:51:27Paul_The_NerdThe problem is with the Rockbox source.
02:51:31LandusGoddamn it.
02:51:39LandusIf I was using an iPod, I wouldn't be having this problem.
02:51:45LandusSo don't tell me no.
02:51:47Paul_The_NerdBecause the patch exists for it?
02:51:48midkayLandus: what is the problem then?
02:52:02midkaywhat sort of problem only affects one device?
02:52:16Paul_The_Nerdmidkay: He wants to use jBlackGlass
02:52:17LandusTrying to change the position of the statusbar, and nothing I've done has made any difference.
02:52:29Paul_The_NerdWhich, by the way, requires a patch on iPods too
02:52:36Paul_The_NerdBut he seems to have missed that.
02:52:48midkayso what's the problem with posting this in a general source code help forum? there are no iriver boards for it, so put it there. that's why we have it.
02:53:10LandusI'm done debating how my mind works.
02:53:17Paul_The_NerdIt doesn't matter how yours works.
02:53:20Paul_The_NerdIt matters how ours does.
02:53:24Paul_The_NerdUnfortunately, they're not your forums.
02:53:41LandusYeah. That's why several decent people aren't active there anymore.
02:53:43Paul_The_NerdThis forum redesign was put up for discussion months ago
02:53:47Paul_The_NerdThere was *plenty* of time to offer objections.
02:54:02LandusI didn't know it was going to be run like a police state.
02:54:09*Mikachu mentions basements and leopards
02:54:09Paul_The_NerdLandus: If you consider yourself a "decent" person, I don't think I'll miss them.
02:54:09LandusIf I had, I would've.
02:54:13*scorche recalls the hitchhikers guide to the galaxy
02:54:13midkayLandus: what exactly about the problem REQUIRES you to put it in an iriver board? now, not only will iriver devs look at it, but EVERYBODY.
02:54:17Paul_The_NerdLandus: "Police state" meaning "We enforce the rules that we post"?
02:54:32LandusYes. Exactly.
02:54:59Paul_The_NerdI'm sorry, but it's somewhat inconceivable that we'd post rules then consciously ignore violations of them.
02:55:20LandusIf your going to have an Iriver subtopic, don't have it right there in the middle of the forum.
02:55:33midkayit clearly says "getting started/installation"..
02:55:43Paul_The_NerdLandus: There's also a handy "POSTING IN THIS FORUM" topic.
02:55:47LandusHave you given it thought that perhaps newcomers are going to have the "Oh, I own <insert DAP model here>! I guess my question goes here."
02:55:53Paul_The_NerdThe posting guidelines for the whole forums tell you to read those before posting.
02:56:16LandusNo one reads them because posting guidelines are common sense.
02:56:21midkayLandus: so paul corrected your mistake, and now you're complaining. Now You Know, so get over it and put it where it belongs, hm?
02:56:22LandusYou don't have obscure rules.
02:56:37Paul_The_NerdLandus: The rules aren't obscure. It's stickied and in all caps
02:56:42LandusYes. They are.
02:56:44Mikachunot reading guidelines and then complaining is just plain old stupid
02:56:54Paul_The_NerdLandus: And the Getting Started / Installation is on the front page as the category for those forums
02:57:01Paul_The_NerdThe category headers aren't just "fluff"
02:57:07Paul_The_NerdOverlooking the rules is understandable though
02:57:14midkayLandus: i can see making the mistake. i can't see learning the mistake you made and complaining on IRC about it instead of learning from it.
02:57:22LandusYes. You do.
02:57:26Paul_The_NerdComplaining when you get called on it, instead of just saying "Oops, I missed the rules" and putting it in the right spot next time, is NOT acceptable behaviour though
02:57:34LandusBut everyone's making a big stink about it.
02:57:41LandusIt was the way it was went about.
02:58:35Paul_The_NerdWhat, I locked the post, because it was clearly in the wrong place.
02:58:40*midkay likes the way Landus went about "we need to get that guy removed from mod status because he corrected one of my mistakes"...
02:58:45LandusIf it's just installing only, the line above subtopics for each model shoudn't say Getting Started / Installation / Removal
02:58:56Paul_The_NerdIf I move the post, if you have it bookmarked or watched, you can go back to it without ever knowing it was moved
02:59:04midkayit's for getting started, installation, and removal. it is NOT for coding or patching problems..
02:59:12Paul_The_NerdWhat about programming has to do with any of those three?
02:59:21LandusGetting Started.
02:59:43scorcheprogramming is advanced material...far from "getting started"
02:59:47Paul_The_NerdVery, very far.
02:59:49LandusI'm done with this.
02:59:57midkayhaha. because people who want to Get Started with rockbox reaally wanna learn how to modify the source..
03:00:12Paul_The_NerdAt this point it's quite clear you're just trying to make excuses.
03:00:24LandusNope. I'm going to make it quite simple.
03:00:37Mikachui thought you said you were done :(
03:00:37midkayand three forums down i see "Getting started and compiling".. now i wonder which suits the problem better..
03:00:54LandusIt is your forum. Unfortunatly, if the majority of people using Rockbox don't like the way it's run, it won't be as popular as it should be.
03:01:02scorchehave you taken a poll?
03:01:05midkaymajority of people, or one user with a grudge?..
03:01:36Paul_The_NerdAs I've said, more people have complimented the new layout than spoken against it.
03:01:37LandusI know I'm not the only user disgusted.
03:01:53Paul_The_NerdAnd so far, you're the second person who's actually spoken to us about it and not eventually realized the redesign was much more efficient
03:01:54LandusBecause anyone that speaks against it will get this.
03:02:04Mikachuwhat is "this"?
03:02:13Paul_The_NerdLandus: You're not speaking out against the design. You're speaking out against the fact that we enforced it.
03:02:15Paul_The_NerdThere's a big difference
03:02:18nudelynSo you knew it was the wrong place to post it already? If not how can you have know other people want to post things in the wrong place?
03:02:23 Join jdGordon|Uni [0] (i=82c20d68@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
03:02:28jdGordon|Unihey all
03:02:28Paul_The_NerdIf you came in here and said "Guys, I really don't like the new forum layout and rules" we might have listened
03:02:32LandusYes. Because you run it like a grammar Nazi calls someone on crappy spelling.
03:02:42Paul_The_NerdBut you came in and complained about the fact that your post was actually *subject* to the rules
03:02:59Paul_The_NerdLandus: Guess what: MANY of our users depend on machine translation or text readers
03:03:07Paul_The_NerdBad spelling makes the forums *vastly* harder for them to use
03:03:07MikachuLandus: a grammar nazi complains about grammar, not spelling. that would be a spelling nazi.
03:03:12Paul_The_NerdAnd anyone can have good spelling if they try
03:03:22LandusThat's the proper term.
03:03:26*Mikachu does his best to help the situation
03:03:33LandusBut you hear grammar Nazi the most.
03:03:40LandusYou still understand what I'm referring to.
03:03:40nudelynmade me laugh Mikachu :)
03:03:43Paul_The_NerdActually, "Nazi" in this context is never the proper term
03:03:55Paul_The_NerdSince it's actually referring to a specific political party that has nothing to do with grammar or spelling
03:04:19Mikachuit is perhaps a humoristic reference to the fact that they would kill anyone who disagreed with them
03:04:25LandusTrue, but you still understand the example.
03:04:27Paul_The_NerdBut the thing is, we ask people to watch their spelling to make the forums more usable by everyone
03:04:31LandusYou're just trying your best to deface it.
03:04:33Paul_The_NerdIs it really *harmful* to you to try to spell properly?
03:04:41LandusNo. That's where your wrong.
03:04:54LandusYeah. Yeah.
03:05:00LandusYou're trying to make them more useable for yourself.
03:05:06LandusAnd those that use them the most.
03:05:18Paul_The_NerdI speak English natively, and can read the screen
03:05:24Paul_The_NerdI can decipher and understand nearly every post in there.
03:05:32 Join Nuky [0] (
03:05:33LandusRockbox is open-source, and depends on new users.
03:05:37Paul_The_NerdI'm trying to make it usable by the blind and those who don't speak English natively.
03:05:47LandusIf someone asks a question in the wrong forum and instantly gets it locked.
03:05:55Paul_The_NerdLandus: They also get told *why* it's locked.
03:05:59LandusDo you think they're going to continue to try and use the program.
03:06:12Nukyi have a question about rockbox
03:06:15Paul_The_NerdLandus: It's common etiquette upon entering a forum to read its rules.
03:06:20scorcheNuky: feel free to ask
03:06:24Paul_The_NerdNuky: Go ahead. I can help you while arguing with him. :)
03:06:29LandusYeah. That might make you feel better, but it doesn't help the user that's now probably upset along with confused.
03:06:34Nukyis it possible that it can fuck up my ipod?
03:06:46Mikachuonly you can do that :)
03:06:56scorcheLandus: how is the user confused?...he gets told why it was locked
03:06:58Nukyis it easy to install
03:07:00Mikachudon't pay too much attention to me
03:07:05Paul_The_NerdLandus: One thing you might have noticed is that in *many* cases, I'll answer the question and move the topic, especially if it's clearly a new-user type question.
03:07:11LandusBut you didn't.
03:07:15Paul_The_NerdLandus: You seem to be judging the whole system based upon your experiences with it.
03:07:25LandusNope. I've seen other people become irritated.
03:07:39LandusI've heard people come into #misticriver and complain a few times.
03:07:42Paul_The_NerdOther people who also didn't follow the rules?
03:07:46LandusNote, that channel isn't on FreeNode.
03:08:03Paul_The_NerdIf they want the rules changed, perhaps they should actually start a topic in general discussion voicing how they think they could be improved.
03:08:14LandusYes. Because your rules are retarted and poorly thought out with the current way the topics are set up.
03:08:17Paul_The_NerdAs I said, they had months of time to offer suggestions on the concept we posted.
03:08:38Paul_The_NerdThe rules have a goal, which is to put discussion where *we* feel it belongs
03:08:47LandusWhich is my point.
03:09:03Paul_The_Nerd"We" being primarily those people who designed the software, and know it best, and what topics discussion of it most likely belongs divided into.
03:09:07LandusWhat 'we' feels is pointless, because 'we' isn't new people using Rockbox.
03:09:12Paul_The_NerdThe core developers were a source of primary feedback on this reorganization.
03:09:27Mikachuwhere did you get the idea that new people are important in any way?
03:09:38Paul_The_NerdAlso, what does this have to do with new people at all?
03:09:42Paul_The_NerdYour post was clearly not a new-people post.
03:09:49*Mikachu puts on his "i don't represent anyone" hat
03:09:52Paul_The_NerdAnd honestly, it's rare that I get an "installation" question in the wrong place
03:09:57Paul_The_NerdWhich is what a "new people" post is.
03:09:59LandusNope. Not really. I actually did this on purpose just to see what would happen.
03:10:10LandusI had every intention of asking on MisticRiver later.
03:10:13Paul_The_NerdYou intentionally broke the rules, to see if you would get called on it?
03:10:19Paul_The_NerdGood job, we enforce them.
03:10:22LandusYes. Just so I could point out what I'm saying.
03:10:28Mikachuthat you are an idiot?
03:10:29Paul_The_NerdThat was rather silly of you.
03:10:32LandusYes. You enforce them. And your going to drive people away.
03:10:42Paul_The_NerdIt would be easier to say "Hey, guys, you actually enforce your new rules. I don't like it."
03:10:48Paul_The_NerdDrive people away?
03:10:52LandusEnforcing them is besides the point.
03:10:57Paul_The_NerdDo we *want* people that can't deal with the fact that we enforce rules?
03:11:05Paul_The_NerdMost people can rather easily say "Oops, there are rules" and then follow them.
03:11:05scorche<Landus> Yes. You enforce them. And your going to drive people away.
03:11:10scorchebesides the point?
03:11:12***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
03:11:17LandusDude. Get off the 'enforcing rules' thought. That isn't the big problem.
03:11:32LandusIt's getting a bit annoying too.
03:11:53Paul_The_NerdIf you don't like the rules, offer up better ones.
03:11:59Paul_The_NerdDo you even know what the focus of our redesign was?
03:12:11Paul_The_NerdDo you?
03:12:21Mikachuare you going to shut up any time soon?
03:12:26Paul_The_NerdLandus: What *is* it then?
03:12:28 Join lostnihilist [0] (
03:12:32Paul_The_NerdIf it's not the rules, what *exactly* is your problem?
03:13:00LandusYou've got four subtopics that have the most common models that Rockbox is used on and expect people to post installation only questions.
03:13:05Arathishaving a problem with my WPS. the progressbar shows weird pixels that shouldn't be there:
03:13:26LandusMake one subtopic called 'Installation Problems' and through those four subtopics to make sub-subtopics.
03:13:28Paul_The_NerdBecause they're in a category called "Getting Started / Installation / Removal" and have nice, stickied, all caps posts called "POSTING IN THIS FORUM" in them
03:13:32Paul_The_NerdMOST people seem to actually get the clue
03:13:37MikachuLandus: is it hard to get through your thick head that if you have a problem that isn't installation specific, you don't post in in a player specific forum?
03:13:47Paul_The_NerdBull? I read *every* post on the forums, period
03:13:59LandusThe several hundred topics being closed because people don't do that is why I did this.
03:14:02Paul_The_NerdI think if anyone is actually in a position to have a feel for the distribution of posts, it's me.
03:14:06LandusThe same thing keeps happening.
03:14:11Paul_The_NerdThe several *hundred*?
03:14:20LandusSomeone posts in the wrong subforum and it gets closed.
03:14:39LandusThey usually never post again.
03:14:55Paul_The_NerdThere are ~270 posts in the whole installation section
03:15:09Paul_The_NerdIf "several hundred" were closed, that would mean less than 70 were open
03:15:21LandusPerhaps it feels like several hundred.
03:15:21SoapOMG, Landus is still being the provocateur?
03:15:26LandusI never kept count.
03:15:33 Join TrueJournals [0] (
03:15:34Paul_The_NerdLandus: Evidently you aren't much for "real" numbers.
03:15:45MikachuLandus: are you just going on about this because you've got nothing better to do?
03:15:46Soap45 minutes.
03:15:57LandusYeah. About right.
03:16:00Mikachu(and Paul_The_Nerd too apparently)
03:16:01LandusUntil someone listens.
03:16:10LandusNow, the only reason I went this way because if I came here and said this, everyone would disagree.
03:16:15LandusThis way, I have proof.
03:16:15Paul_The_NerdLandus: The Archos, Apple, iRiver and Cowon forums *are* in a subcategory for installation. It can't be our fault if people don't actually *read* the category header.
03:16:28Paul_The_NerdProof of *what* exactly?
03:16:30LandusNo one rarely does.
03:16:39Mikachuyou could name the subforums "installation problems with $model"
03:16:41LandusBecause 9 out of 10 times, you get the same general rules.
03:16:53Paul_The_NerdSo, your problem is that "People don't read the category" not actually that there's anything wrong with the forum other than we expect people to read before posting.
03:16:57LandusDon't ask stupid questions, don't flame, etc.
03:17:06SoapAccusing Llorean of being out of line, even if legit, is kind of like the pot calling the kettle black at this fucking point, is it not Landus?
03:17:12LandusHey. I'm just pointing out a common fact.
03:17:28Paul_The_NerdA common fact: "People make assumptions about the forum before posting, then get irritated when those assumptions are wrong"
03:17:32Paul_The_NerdThis is what you've said.
03:17:39Paul_The_NerdOr at least, this is how it can best be summarized
03:18:04TrueJournalsHey... I'm having some trouble building rockbox on Windows XP SP2 using cygwin... You can see the errors I get at ... can anyone help me?
03:18:06 Quit Nuky (" X Infov10B.3.3 ReleasedMarch 01 2006 Channel#Excursion o")
03:18:14LandusActually, I started mentioning Llorean because I thought I heard Paul him say he was him ages ago.
03:18:27TrueJournals(I just put the last couple of lines with errors from running make)
03:18:54Paul_The_NerdLandus: And because Llorean locked your post for being in a horribly wrong place, and you complained to him about it, TRYING to justify it being in the right place, clearly showing you didn't know the rules of the forum.
03:18:54LandusTrueJournals: There's a line filter. Join #flood and post the errors in there.
03:18:58MikachuTrueJournals: more details, what player etc?
03:19:11LandusNope. I just felt like debating.
03:19:11TrueJournalsTrying to build for the H10 20 GB
03:19:21SoapI mean, seriously Landus, follow the posting guidelines or not. Be an adult. Follow the rules, leave, or get the thread locked. What is the big fucking deal. Make an aduld decision.
03:19:22jdGordon|Uniim boooorreeedd.. and half asleep
03:19:29LandusI did.
03:19:30MikachujdGordon|Uni: read the last hour of log
03:19:31Paul_The_NerdLandus: You felt like debating that it was valid, even though you knew that it wasn't?
03:19:34MikachujdGordon|Uni: sure to get you sleeping
03:19:48Paul_The_NerdTrueJournals: I heard BMPViewer needs to be removed from the H10 builds until it has keymappings.
03:19:51jdGordon|Unino i need to wake up....
03:19:57LandusIf I really wanted my question answered right now, do you honestly think I would've kept debating this long?
03:19:58MikachujdGordon|Uni: oh heh, don't then
03:20:07LandusI would've gone and put it in the right subtopic.
03:20:18TrueJournalsPaul_The_Nerd: ah! Thanks! How would I do this? Just remove the files for BMPViewer or what?
03:20:23SoapSo then be an adult and STFU about it.
03:20:27MikachuTrueJournals: you can remove bmpviewer.c from apps/plugins/SOURCES
03:20:29Paul_The_NerdTrueJournals: In the /apps/plugins/SOURCES file, remove the BMPViewer line
03:20:37TrueJournalsok, thanks
03:21:00LandusSoap: I keep on it just to see you get red in the face.
03:21:08SoapLet's say you are right. You have no power. No power to change the forum rules. Obviously no power to change the forum mods' minds. Be an adult and back the freak down.
03:21:13Paul_The_NerdLandus: There are rules. Follow them, post as to why you think they're harmful to the forums, or shut up and leave. It's fairly simple.
03:21:34Paul_The_NerdEveryone has the power to change the rules, by coming up with better ones that achieve the same goals for the forum and suggesting them.
03:21:46Soapimpotent imbecile
03:21:46Paul_The_NerdBut bear in mind, you have to change *my* mind about the existing ones, or get me thrown out.
03:22:00LandusLast time I'm repeating myself.
03:22:10Paul_The_NerdLandus: You said it's not about the rules, I know
03:22:12LandusEverything I did was for the sole purpose of proving what I've been saing.
03:22:15LandusSaying, rather.
03:22:29Paul_The_NerdBut you've not proven anything.
03:22:34LandusYeah. I did.
03:22:36Mikachuthat you wanted to troll for a couple of hours?
03:22:41Paul_The_NerdWhat did you prove, exactly?
03:23:02LandusWhat I've been saying.
03:23:03Mikachumaybe we can hook you up with protricity
03:23:15Paul_The_NerdLandus: Just put it as a simple statement
03:23:18Paul_The_NerdYou've been wandering all over the place
03:23:23Paul_The_NerdComplained about the fact that rules are enforced
03:23:24SoapAnd you have made your point, you have been heard. We are validating your feelings. Your feelings are real. But that doesn't make them right in this context/.
03:23:31Paul_The_NerdComplained about the fact that we expect people to read categories
03:23:37Paul_The_NerdComplained that we reorganized the layout
03:23:43Paul_The_NerdWhat *exactly* is your point, summarized?
03:23:48Paul_The_NerdWhat *exactly* did you prove?
03:24:15LandusThat the forums aren't entirely new-user friendly, and enforcing the rules to the point doesn't keep many people around.
03:24:27SoapPoint taken
03:24:30 Nick Nibbier is now known as Nibbler (
03:24:33Paul_The_NerdAh. No, you haven't proved that. But, now I know your point.
03:24:35Mikachuhow did you prove that, you're still here?
03:24:45LandusA few people /msg'ed me.
03:24:59SoapPaul_The_Nerd said the number of posts is increasing, not decreasing. So the validity of your point, Landus, should be brought into question.
03:25:01LandusSo I know it isn't just me that thinks this.
03:25:17LandusWhether or not that's true, that's really not a big deal.
03:25:18SoapBirds of a feather/.
03:25:40Paul_The_NerdLandus: As I've said, people with a complaint in the forums are free to bring up that complaint.
03:25:41LandusIt could easily mean that people that have been here for awhile are asking alot of questions.
03:25:42Mikachucan't see all the trees until you cross the river
03:25:44Paul_The_Nerdstart a thread in General Discussion
03:26:03Paul_The_NerdI won't lock a thread just because it's critical to me, as long as nobody swears (and even then, I'll just edit out the curse words)
03:26:13Paul_The_NerdI don't care if you call the rules stupid, or whatever, as long as you try to come up with a way to make them better.
03:26:28LandusDebating over a message board is like competing in the special olympics.
03:26:43 Quit jdGordon|Uni ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
03:26:44Paul_The_NerdAnd IRC is better?
03:26:45Mikachuhahaha, are you calling yourself a retard now?
03:26:59Paul_The_NerdOn the message board ideas can actually be collated into an improved set of rules
03:27:00LandusI never kept this debate on the forums.
03:27:02Mikachucan you come to my house? i want to frame you and put you on the wall
03:27:05LandusYes, they can.
03:27:11Paul_The_NerdI promise you, when I leave this channel I will forget 100% if what you said.
03:27:25LandusThen I'll have to bring it up when you come back.
03:27:26Paul_The_NerdBut if you take it up in the proper place, maybe you and some other discontents can come up with some suggested changes I'll like
03:27:35Paul_The_NerdSo far you've been entirely non-helpful in how we can improve it
03:27:37 Part Mikachu ("_")
03:27:40Paul_The_NerdYou've offered "evidence" that's untrue
03:27:46LandusOh, it's true.
03:27:49Paul_The_NerdWe have both more registered users, more posts, AND more multiple-post users.
03:28:04Soapand that's just BigMac
03:28:10LandusSeveral people have told me that they agree.
03:28:20LandusYou, however, might have your opinion that it isn't.
03:28:23Paul_The_Nerd"Several people" does not mean inactivity is increasing.
03:28:36LandusI said that just to keep the debate going.
03:28:40Paul_The_NerdSo, you lied
03:28:47LandusIt's like adding paper to a simmering fire.
03:28:49Paul_The_NerdAs I said, "evidence" that is untrue.
03:28:59LandusMaybe I did, maybe I didn't.
03:29:02 Part TrueJournals
03:29:05 Join Febs [0] (
03:29:08Paul_The_NerdAnd I can then trust your "several people have told me that they agree" why?
03:29:20Paul_The_NerdIf people agree with you, as I said, START A THREAD. Gather together ideas for improvements.
03:29:27Paul_The_NerdHell, file a feature request with a new rules outline
03:29:39LandusAnd have to check back every hour or so and reply to each and every person.
03:29:40Paul_The_NerdThere are better ways than complaining that we actually enforced our current rules.
03:29:54Paul_The_NerdWhy do you have to reply to everyone?
03:29:56LandusLeast with IRC, it's live
03:30:10Paul_The_NerdWith IRC you also only get to the people who come in the IRC channel
03:30:15 Quit Landus ("Leaving")
03:30:16 Quit JoeBorn ("Leaving")
03:30:16Paul_The_NerdWhich, I hate to tell you, are *primarily* those who agreed to the new layout
03:30:52 Join Landus [0] (
03:30:53 Quit Arathis ("[rl_bot quit]")
03:31:00Paul_The_NerdWhich, I hate to tell you, are *primarily* those who agreed to the new layout
03:31:11Paul_The_NerdAnyway, gather support, *show* me these "vast numbers" that are unhappy
03:31:16LandusWonderful time for X-Chat to crash
03:31:31Paul_The_NerdStart a poll in our general discussion, then go to MR and get them to come, register, and vote in the poll to show they're unhappy
03:31:55Paul_The_NerdBut, remember, *nothing* will change unless you come up with a suggestion for something that's better and keeps our goal in mind
03:31:55LandusWhat I was saying before X-Chat died, is that if I don't reply to someone that has a disagreement over the forums, it'll look like I'm avoiding a question.
03:32:11LandusIt's a small problem that can be easily fixed. Not something I'm going to take a week to debate over.
03:32:28Paul_The_NerdHow would you fix it then, while keeping the current goal in mind?
03:32:42LandusAgain, I'm not in charge of anything on Rockbox, so I'm not going to affected as much as the project itself would be.
03:32:58LandusI'm just pointing this out so it doesn't become a bigger problem in the future.
03:33:10*Paul_The_Nerd waits for how it can be easily fixed.
03:33:33LandusI already gave at least one possible way to fix it.
03:34:29Paul_The_NerdWhat was that, exactly? I don't remember anything like that.
03:34:53LandusDon't have subtopics that have the model of DAPs that Rockbox runs on in plain sight.
03:34:58LandusIt gives the wrong impression.
03:36:26Paul_The_NerdIs that better, then?
03:36:32 Quit dpassen1 ()
03:36:33SoapThere are install "quirks" which are hardware/target specific. A forums for that must be provided, and should be in "plain sight"
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03:37:53Paul_The_NerdLandus: I made a small change, is it better?
03:37:56SoapAt some point trust, nay an expectation, that users will read /something/ (be it the manual, the forum posting guidelines, the wiki, even lurk for a week) must be made.
03:38:26LandusYou did understand what I was saying.
03:38:51Paul_The_NerdLandus: As I said about 50 times, I'm willing to listen to reasonable suggestions.
03:38:58Paul_The_NerdBut complaints about the fact that I enforce the rules, are not reasonable.
03:40:32Febs<Landus> Now I'm beginning to see why the forums on MisticRiver are more active that the ones at rockbox.
03:40:45FebsFor the record, I close WAY more threads at Mistic River than I close here.
03:41:05LandusI didn't feel up for another round.
03:41:10LandusWell, now that that is out of the way, there was some truth to what I originally posted.
03:41:19LandusI can't get the statusbar to change it's position.
03:41:23LandusAnyone want to take a swing?
03:41:57LandusI've got both the .c and header file open.
03:43:26Paul_The_NerdBeyond just changing STATUSBAR_Y_POS's value?
03:44:37LandusIs the Y axis value what moves it farther down?
03:44:47Paul_The_NerdIncrease it to move it further down.
03:44:52LandusI have.
03:44:55 Part pixelma
03:45:09LandusI've got it set at 8 and it won't budge.
03:46:10LandusIs there anything else that needs to be done?
03:47:01FebsCatching up with the logs:
03:47:02Febs<Landus> Nope. Not really. I actually did this on purpose just to see what would happen.
03:47:11Paul_The_NerdLandus: Did you increase statusbar height as well?
03:47:43FebsYou pull shit like that, and YOU'RE going to drive people away.
03:48:11FebsPeople like me, who enjoy helping people, but are getting *really* sick of people whining about the way that we choose to provide help.
03:48:19Paul_The_NerdLandus: What I would do first is leave STATUSBAR_Y_POS at 0, change the height to 16, and then go to one of the calls, like the one that draws the clock or volume level, and find the Y part of the call (should have STATUSBAR_Y_POS in the call) and do like, +8 to it, and see if that moves that icon.
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03:50:20LandusNothing personal, but please, put a virtual sock in your mouth.
03:50:54FebsNo, you've had your say. I'll have mine.
03:51:11FebsThe Rockbox forums are not Mistic River.
03:51:18FebsThey are a user support forum.
03:51:28FebsWe are trying to organize them in a way that will help users of ALL platforms.
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05:12:33ablaze`any germans here ?
05:12:55ablaze`i have some question about the e200 serie
05:13:01ablaze`but my english is bad
05:14:26ablaze`nobody there ?
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05:16:26scorchego ahead and ask the question...we have dealt with worse english than i have seen from you so far before =)
05:16:41dpassen1And often, from native speakers
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05:19:23Nibblergermans should sleep now anyways :\
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05:43:02voltdoes the iaudio X5L get 30 hrs of play with rockbox?
05:46:19Paul_The_NerdI think it's 24ish
05:46:40Paul_The_NerdBut I don't think anyone's done a valid comparative test yet.
05:47:08Paul_The_NerdIE, nobody's run the same playlist at 0 volume (or max volume) with no equalizers on both firmwares to see how the playtimes directly compare.
05:51:22ablaze`oh i forgot this chat here... i converted a lot... cya in a couple of hours (i hope you understood me) :P
05:51:27ablaze`i have to sleeep
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05:56:07volthmm. well, Paul
05:57:06voltI returned my 60GB and was considering the x5L but 14 hours is quite enough as it is, and I have >30GB of music. as well as the price being only $60 apart where I'm getting it, I'm just going to re-purchase the 60GB version.
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07:18:33Ponsguys, i need urgent help
07:18:40Ponshas any of you tried the new 1.2?
07:18:55Ponson ipod?
07:19:00scorcheare you referring to the new apple firmware?
07:19:32scorchewell, i dont have an ipod, but what is your question?
07:19:56Ponsi had rockbox
07:20:05Ponsand itunes gave an error when updating
07:20:13Ponsbut i tried again and it worked
07:20:20Ponsbut it ripped of my rockbox..
07:20:26Ponsno problem tho
07:20:32Ponsi can install it again
07:20:46Paul_The_NerdSo... umm... what was the question?
07:21:13scorcheom...youre welcome? o_O
07:23:21Ponsi though it was a problem updating and having rockbox installed
07:23:31Ponsbut i figured out that it wasn't
07:23:34Ponsso don't worr
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07:54:27fatherforkI use rockbox on my iPod, but I'm thinking about going back to the original firmware because the simplicity is almost enough to make me not care. rockbox is a hassle.
07:54:39fatherforkjust a thought.
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07:58:52aliaskfatherfork: Any particular parts that you think we should focus on?
07:59:50fatherforkya know.. maybe on the installer front, it would be a lot easier to upgrade if we had a supported...installer
08:00:44fatherforkand while there are customizable wps's, the other screen still seem cluttered
08:01:06aliaskWhat do you mean by cluttered? Like how the menu isn't really intuitive?
08:01:24fatherforkyes, but i know that's being actively worked on...
08:02:07fatherforkthe menubar at the top... it, takes away from any simplistic look
08:02:16fatherforka lot
08:02:20scorchewell, i do admit that an installer would be nice, but you only have to replace the bootloader once, and that is just typing the commands on the wiki word for word
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08:02:43aliaskI'm actually sorta thinking about doing something about the statusbar - it's by far the ugliest part of rockbox IMO
08:02:50fatherforkthis is true, however a little knowledge is still required
08:03:13aliaskAlso, because the bootloader is the first thing you have to do - it scares away new users.
08:03:28fatherforkwow that would be fantastic, and I agree about it being the ugliest part
08:03:42fatherforkyeah, it was a little daunting when I first saw it
08:03:50aliaskMy C skills are pretty limited, so what I come up with probably won't get into CVS.
08:04:17aliaskPerhaps someone will take the idea and go from where I'm up to, who knows.
08:04:30fatherforkwould be a step forward for sure
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08:04:51nudelynAnyone know the history of "A bright coloured fish" in the ID3 APIC tag specification? :)
08:05:12scorchei wonder how people would respond to me making an installer...i wouldnt think that the devs would have an issue with it as long as i make it simple, disclose source and everything
08:05:48aliaskWe just need someone with windows GUI coding experience, I'm sure there are people out there...
08:05:55aliasknudelyn: No, what is it?
08:06:06scorchewell, the problem is, is i would make it in python...
08:06:22scorche(most liekly)
08:06:34nudelynI dunno! I think it's a joke, but I wonder where it came from. :) and
08:06:34aliaskI think a cmdline app would defeat the purpose... (python is shell right?)
08:07:07scorchei could make an executable
08:07:30*scorche <3 wxpython
08:07:50aliaskBut is the executable GUI or still commandline?
08:07:54fatherforktoo bad it wouldn't help me
08:08:01*fatherfork is a mac user
08:08:28aliaskYeah, we also need to consider mactarded people.
08:08:33scorcheas you said...command line would defeat the purpose
08:09:04fatherforkI tried to learn cocoa once. yeah I remember that day.
08:09:35scorchebut macs have python integrated (dont they?)....command line would be easy
08:09:41amiconnWe don't need yet another installer
08:10:01aliaskamiconn: What's the harm?
08:10:02scorchei know we dont need it, but it would be nice for many people
08:10:05amiconnWhat would be nice are 2 things. (1) Adapt the existing installer to be usable for all targets
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08:11:33scorcheall the existing installer does is extract to the root of the device right?
08:11:35amiconn(2) A tool which can be used by the installer to handle the special, target-specific operations. Patch of with bootloader for iriver, inject the bootloader for ipod etc
08:11:42*aliask checks out this existing installer
08:11:49*scorche thinks that the installer is/was only for the archos players
08:12:50amiconnscorche: Yes it is, but the installation process is the same for all targets, apart from the first-time installation that involves patching on most newer targets
08:14:01scorchei was suggesting creating a "tool" which would handle the bootloader (non extract parts)
08:16:31amiconnOkay, that would be part (2) from my list
08:17:13amiconnBut I don't think using a scripting language for that would be a good idea,
08:17:14scorcheit isnt like python cant interact with C
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08:18:12scorchewell, python is what i am strongest in, so it would be natural for me to write it in that which is why i suggested it
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08:22:07moda*waits for someone to try out the ipod video build on 5.5g ipod* :D
08:23:37aliaskHrm, on that topic, does anyone know if Apple changed the guts of the players?
08:23:44Paul_The_NerdNobody's confirmed either way yet.
08:24:06Paul_The_NerdThe Nano 2G is clearly changed at least minorly since it's smaller and yet has a good bit more battery life
08:24:07scorchei am guessing the new nanos use the samsung
08:24:28Paul_The_NerdIt seems likely
08:24:35aliaskThey're also claiming 75% more video playtime, no broadcom chip? :D
08:24:36BagderI doubt that
08:24:56Bagderseems like a pretty major change
08:24:57Paul_The_NerdThey probably just put a bigger battery in the 5.5G
08:25:43Paul_The_NerdI wouldn't be at all surprised if it's a functionally identical LCD that happens to have a brighter light, a bigger battery, and in some cases a new HD. would be...but ya never know
08:25:56Paul_The_NerdOh, and of course "Rockboxalike features"
08:26:34aliaskI like the way the search appears to work though - dynamically updating as you enter text.
08:27:07scorchei love those kind of searches...
08:27:21Paul_The_NerdI'm sure text prediction could be added to tagcache in the future.
08:27:45aliaskPeople seem to have forgotten about playlist searching on rockbox... I use that so much more than tagcache.
08:27:46scorchetext prediction...not so much
08:28:10Paul_The_Nerdaliask: It could be used in a playlist as well.
08:28:17Paul_The_NerdI've never ever searched in a playlist though
08:28:29Paul_The_NerdOf course, I don't use TagCache either.
08:28:39Paul_The_NerdSo I haven't exactly searched in that either.
08:28:52aliaskI tend to create large playlists on shuffle and search if I want to listen to something specific.
08:29:08Paul_The_NerdIf I want to search for something specific, I browse to it and "Queue Next"
08:29:24aliaskI do that too sometimes... oh rockbox - the choices! :)
08:30:02Paul_The_NerdI'm still surprised that they're finally claiming gapless. I wonder how well it works
08:30:30fatherforkdoes "queue next" insert the song between the current and next song?
08:30:40aliaskSure does.
08:30:59aliaskiTunes didn't use to rip in gapless - it'd insert them.
08:31:06Paul_The_NerdThere's also "Queue Last" which appends to the end of the playlist, and "Queue" which queues after the most recently queued song
08:31:42fatherforkand if there is no recently queued song? it goes next?
08:31:43Paul_The_NerdIf you Queue Next A, B, and C you get them in your list as CBA, so you need to Queue Next, Queue, Queue to get ABC (I never remember what Queue defaults to, so I never bother using it first)
08:33:18Paul_The_NerdY'know what phrase that arbitrarily irritates me, that I shall bring up here? MP4 player.
08:33:39Paul_The_NerdI seriously doubt there's a device out there that plays everything that qualifies as a valid MP4 file.
08:34:02aliaskIt's basically come to mean H.264 (or whatever it is)
08:34:28BHSPitMonkeyI swear... of all the channels I /autojoin, this is the one that never sleeps.
08:34:39fatherforkthe should have a disclaimer (there is no way on earth that this device could possibly ever play every mp4 file, so stop dreaming)
08:34:44Paul_The_Nerdaliask: It often means AAC as well.
08:34:51BHSPitMonkeyI guess that's because it has a good European presence, though.
08:34:55aliaskAh yes, I forgot about audio...
08:35:09Paul_The_NerdIt seems to be somewhat arbitrary, and far too vague for my liking.
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08:35:47BHSPitMonkeyPaul_The_Nerd, well, then you must hate Digital Audio Player, etc
08:35:48aliaskThere are so many terms which have become like that though
08:36:00BHSPitMonkeyname one device that can play everything that qualifies as Digital Audio.
08:36:01aliaskBHSPitMonkey: Nono, "MP3 player"
08:36:12BHSPitMonkeyI hear DAP used around rockbox all the time.
08:36:32aliaskI suppose names have to be a bit ambiguous.
08:36:33Bagderwell DAP is genericly playing digital audio
08:36:41Bagdermp4 is just weird to say
08:36:45fatherforkI hate how people come in to the store and ask me what the difference is between an iPod and an "mp3 player"
08:37:09scorchehaha...when i worked retail, i used to get that all thetime too
08:37:13aliaskHahaha. Yes, "what is an interweb?".
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08:37:16scorchefatherfork: long time no talk =)
08:37:16fatherforkyeah people are so
08:37:25fatherforkhey scorche
08:37:36Paul_The_NerdBHSPitMonkey: DAP means it's capable of playing digital audio. Digital Audio doesn't actually refer to a specific standard.
08:38:01BHSPitMonkeyand neither does mp4, right?
08:38:04scorcheand mp3 is not a container format
08:38:23Paul_The_NerdMP4 is a container format
08:38:28Bagderwell saying mp4 without further details is pretty vague
08:38:31Paul_The_NerdIt's actually clearly defined in the MPEG-4 standard
08:38:42*moda demands 5.5g now!
08:38:52fatherforkit's not THAT great
08:38:54Bagdermoda: so order one
08:38:59BHSPitMonkeythey should make AVI players
08:39:04modai know but my h340 is falling apart
08:39:14fatherforkI have a 5G, so I'm waiting till the first of the year
08:39:14modaBagder I would if my parents werent so stingy :|
08:39:20BHSPitMonkeyoh yeah, apple was supposed to announce a new player today, did they?
08:39:25scorcheBHSPitMonkey: and the difference between that and mp4 would be...?
08:39:28Bagderkids these days ;-)
08:39:29Paul_The_NerdBHSPitMonkey: iPod Nano 2G
08:39:32scorchethey did
08:39:33Paul_The_NerdAnd a new Shuffle
08:39:36modaipod video 5.5g
08:39:41nudelynand gapless firmware of great justice!
08:39:41fatherforkthat shuffle is crazy
08:39:44Paul_The_NerdAlso the 5.5G which is *maybe* new.
08:39:49*BHSPitMonkey checks out the site
08:39:58fatherforkhey can we get a rockbox port to the new shuffle?!?!?!?!?????
08:40:00nudelynand zuma! (games)
08:40:06modawtf lol fatherfork
08:40:13modahell no it doesnt even have a screen
08:40:16Paul_The_Nerdfatherfork: Follow the same rules for any new port.
08:40:22fatherforkyes sir
08:40:22BHSPitMonkeyfatherfork, I've been saying that since forever.
08:40:25BHSPitMonkeyaudio interface.
08:40:25Paul_The_Nerdmoda: Voice UI exists. :-P
08:40:33nudelyn"Hey guys, I'm having trouble getting Doom to run on the Shuffle port of Rockbox..."
08:40:36Bagderthe shuffle is a true challenge to work on
08:40:43BHSPitMonkeyI could SWALLOW that shuffle
08:40:44modaPaul_The_Nerd: it does?
08:40:49BHSPitMonkeythat's insane
08:40:51modaive never used it before
08:41:02BHSPitMonkeyit's getting closer and closer to that iPod Flea spoof
08:41:27fatherforkhaha, that video was awesome
08:41:34Paul_The_NerdI've actually played a first person shooter that has no graphical interface
08:41:37Paul_The_NerdIt's entirely sound-based
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08:41:51nudelynoh yeah, i remember hearing about (heh) that. didn't try it though. was it good?
08:41:51*moda kicks stingy parents
08:42:14BHSPitMonkeyso, the new aspect of the 5G's is... games?
08:42:19nudelynand gapless
08:42:31Bagderand bigger hdd
08:42:32aliaskBetter battery, 60% brighter
08:42:34nudelynand i think more video support
08:42:54fatherforkjust an expansion on h264 support
08:42:57scorcheand the rest we shall find out in time =)
08:42:57Paul_The_Nerdnudelyn: It was okay.
08:43:04BHSPitMonkeyis it a firmware upgrade?
08:43:16BHSPitMonkey(not the hdd of course, and the brightness)
08:43:24BHSPitMonkeybut I mean, is it applicable to current 5g's
08:43:26modai say it again
08:43:27*moda kicks stingy parents
08:43:31aliaskI'm disappointed there was no wide/touch screen iPod. Rockbox would be an awesome experience.
08:43:32nudelynthere's a firmware update for the 5G players. nobody is sure if the new hardware is actually different or if it's just diff HDDs and firmware improvements
08:43:45fatherforkwell there is brightness control on the firmware update, just no brighter on the 5G
08:44:19nudelynI've installed the new firmware on my 5G iPod and gapless works for iTunes-encoded AAC (drag & drop of WMA Lossless file). Didn't seem to work for LAME-encoded MP3 but I haven't investigated yet.
08:44:23BHSPitMonkeynudelyn, would I be the first to try the update out if I did it right now
08:44:38Paul_The_Nerdnudelyn: I wouldn't be surprised that LAME-mp3 don't work gapless
08:44:52nudelynthe update seemed to nuke the rockbox bootloader BTW, so be prepared to reinstall that
08:44:59Paul_The_Nerdnudelyn: Apple's views on MP3 is that the iPod ONLY officially supports those encoded in iTunes. So until iTunes creates gapless MP3s, they probably won't bother.
08:45:01BHSPitMonkeywell duh
08:45:11fatherforkit's supposed to analyze the actual audio to determine the gap...less...ness
08:45:31nudelynit does but it doesn't seem to work very well :)
08:45:41BHSPitMonkeynudelyn, you could have dumped the firmware from the updater program, and used it with ipod_fw
08:45:59nudelynthe gap is much better than it was though... sounds like the mp3 frame gap, rather than the "ipod has gone to sleep for 2 seconds oh shii, the buffer's empty!" gap
08:46:21modayay new house, MOTHERFUCKER!
08:46:28fatherforkthat's about the gap I get in rockbox on most stuff
08:46:33Paul_The_Nerdnudelyn: Try some made with the actual nogap flag, like you'd prepare them for the Archos then
08:46:41BHSPitMonkeyit makes me mad they didn't give an official new title to the new 5G's
08:46:47Paul_The_Nerdfatherfork: If you get a gap in Rockbox, something is wrong with your files.
08:46:48nudelynfirmware update seems to be part of itunes now, there's no link to a standalone installer... but it probably is there ina temp file somewhere
08:46:54nudelyngood idea paul, i'll try that at the weekend
08:47:13BHSPitMonkeynudelyn, did that also enable that games functionality (not that I really care for it)
08:47:15BHSPitMonkeyjust curious
08:47:18Paul_The_NerdBHSPitMonkey: It's really a firmware update though, for almost entirely the most part.
08:47:18nudelynyeah it does
08:47:29BHSPitMonkeythey're offering us, to buy, what we've had for months ^^
08:47:40scorchewell, with 20 more gigs
08:47:40modaat a cheaper price...
08:47:42BHSPitMonkeyspeaking of which, a thank-you to all the devs
08:47:54fatherforkPaul_The_Nerd: there's really not much i can do about it then.
08:48:09Paul_The_Nerdfatherfork: I take it you didn't encode the files yourself?
08:48:21fatherforkehh... not most of them, no
08:48:47nudelynif apple added a proper equaliser (none of this preset crap) and a GUI theme that wasn't fugly (I want my greentheme back!) then I'd be totally happy with the official firmware, I think. USB MSC would be nice but I doubt they'll ever do that.
08:48:50BHSPitMonkeynudelyn, on the site, it looks like the new "WPS" has a gradient background... is that so?
08:48:55BHSPitMonkeybecause that'd be GREAT
08:49:09nudelynit looks like the same boring white background to me
08:49:44nudelynit's fugly compared to rockbox
08:50:27fatherforkit's fugly compared to rockbox's wps
08:50:34BHSPitMonkeyif they had added a gradient background, though
08:50:44BHSPitMonkeythat would make the background changeable ^^
08:51:02nudelyni might try the official firmware for a while though... i didn't use the EQ in rockbox due to skipping problems, so i won't miss that (even though I think apple should provide a better EQ). battery life will be better.
08:51:06BHSPitMonkeyyou can replace all the bitmaps the firmware is full of. unfortunately, the wps/menu backgrounds are just coded colors
08:51:32Paul_The_Nerdnudelyn: If you've got a 5G you should've tried the Hardware EQ
08:51:41Paul_The_NerdIt doesn't skip.
08:51:56nudelyni only just heard about that. i haven't been keeping up with what's new :(
08:52:11fatherforkyou know the thing I would miss the most if I went back to iPod original... crossfeed.
08:52:11 Quit JdGordon ("Konversation terminated!")
08:52:40 Join JdGordon [0] (
08:52:49nudelynthere's some kind of "compilation album" support in itunes and the firmware too... it sounds promising but i haven't tried it yet.
08:52:50BHSPitMonkeybut maybe
08:53:10nudelynalready I find myself wanting folder-based storage, though, for all my random mp3s that i want separate from my albums.
08:53:11BHSPitMonkeymaybe because of the new games modularity, we'll see some homebrew hacks
08:53:24BHSPitMonkeybut maybe
08:53:39BHSPitMonkeymaybe port rockbox as an iPod Game ^^
08:53:46Paul_The_NerdThat would be rather silly
08:53:51BHSPitMonkeyrather indeed
08:53:57BHSPitMonkeylike most fun things
08:54:00nudelynperhaps apple will make soemthing like Microsoft's XNA where you can pay them money to develop games for their hardware :)
08:54:01modaBHSPitMonkey do you actually think of what you say?
08:54:01fatherforkindeed rather silly
08:54:08 Quit theli_ua (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
08:54:11BHSPitMonkeymoda, NO
08:54:12*Paul_The_Nerd is actually learning XNA.
08:54:16modawell you should
08:54:29modamost likely it would stop you from sounding like a fool ;)
08:54:44BHSPitMonkeymoda, fortunately, that's never happened as of yet
08:54:51*BHSPitMonkey looks around
08:54:54Paul_The_NerdEspecially since it's entirely free until I want to actually test code on the console
08:55:09fatherforkhaha, "wow" is "mom" upside down.
08:55:14fatherforkok, yeah, sorry.
08:55:21BHSPitMonkeymoda, and you attack ME?
08:55:33fatherfork(point made)
08:55:39modawho uses mom anyway?
08:55:44modaits mum...
08:56:03modawell, in the english speaking parts of the world maybe
08:56:13BHSPitMonkeyam I the only one who thinks moda sounds like a struggling stand-up comedian
08:56:54BHSPitMonkey Am I right? Heh! Heh!
08:57:01fatherforkthe name or the entity?
08:57:28BHSPitMonkeythe dialogue, rather
08:57:44BHSPitMonkeyhere comes one
08:57:46BHSPitMonkeyjust wait
08:58:00BHSPitMonkeywe've seen the ellipsis of anticipation...
08:58:23*moda rollseyes
08:58:36 Nick theli_ is now known as theli_ua (
08:58:47BHSPitMonkeywe're all friends here
08:58:59modaIts ok, I forgive you because you didnt know im australian :)
08:59:12fatherforkah, explains the "mum"
08:59:22fatherforkg'day mate
08:59:32modayea yea :|
08:59:37BHSPitMonkeythat was just plain distasteful
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08:59:49fatherforkI was just... maaan
09:01:46modatorrents suck :|
09:02:09BHSPitMonkeya torrent sucks only as much as its content
09:03:28modaa torrent with 5000 seeders and an average of 10mbytes/s and I get 2kbs/s.... fuck that
09:03:44 Join InteliWasp [0] (
09:03:57fatherforkthey do keep logs of this conversation...
09:04:22InteliWaspwhat do i need to do to access my ipod with firewire?
09:04:27BHSPitMonkeylook at the IRC page
09:04:32modaits a linux iso, so it doesnt matter anyway
09:04:37fatherforkInteliWasp: which iPod?
09:04:42Paul_The_NerdInteliWasp: Boot it into the retail operating system?
09:04:43BHSPitMonkeyInteliWasp, uhh, a computer that has firewire also
09:05:03BHSPitMonkeyoh, need "to do"
09:05:09InteliWaspand yes i have firewire capability on my comp
09:05:29BHSPitMonkeyInteliWasp, Original Firmware, or diskmode.
09:06:22InteliWaspso not yet then... darn, i was kinda hopeing that i could get faster then usb 1.1 speads
09:06:47fatherforkwhat do you mean? is something preventing you from booting into disk mode?
09:07:07Paul_The_NerdRockbox doesn't have *any* USB or Firewire support
09:07:18Paul_The_NerdBut when you plug in a USB cable, it detects it an reboots into emergency disk mode
09:07:30InteliWaspwhen i plug it in, it does nothing in reaction
09:07:33Paul_The_NerdFor Firewire, you have to shut down and manually boot or reboot into a mode that supports it.
09:07:54BHSPitMonkeyInteliWasp, hold play+select during boot
09:08:24InteliWaspfigures, i hope that there will be a rockbod disk mode soon
09:08:32Paul_The_NerdOr simply read the IpodFAQ or Manual
09:08:34 Quit Landus (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
09:08:56Paul_The_NerdRockbox is unlikely to have a disk mode for a while yet, unless there's a breakthrough in knowledge of the portalplayer chipset.
09:09:52InteliWaspdoes ipl have any progress with it?
09:11:17***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
09:12:37Bagderthe ipl development in the kernel seem to more or less have stalled
09:13:02Bagdera single commit since may 15
09:13:39Bagderhm, yes I read it right
09:14:21InteliWaspthere is SVN activity altho sloooow
09:14:39Bagderyes, one commit since may 15 is slow
09:15:20InteliWasper.. i see a SVN on sep 7...
09:15:27Bagdernot in the kernel
09:15:55InteliWaspnm.... brain is asleep and not reading text...
09:16:15*moda looks out the window @ sun ;)
09:16:31InteliWasp03:20 here
09:16:34modaits freaking freezing today but :|
09:16:46*Bagder confesses to never have understood the ipl linux project's ways anyway
09:16:48modamax was like 23 degrees :|
09:16:52*InteliWasp loves the cold
09:18:06Bagderyou should come here in winter then
09:18:10Bagderlong dark coldness
09:18:28InteliWaspipl is more bang for the buck in regards of dodads and features, wile rb is a good solid multi-format player
09:18:28modaits spring right now (??? i think) and its still cold :O
09:18:49InteliWaspwhere are you guys?
09:18:56*Bagder is in Sweden
09:19:06*moda is in Australia
09:19:10*InteliWasp is in ohio, USA
09:19:56fatherfork3.20 heya in da atl
09:20:24modaI wish it would snow here in the city :(
09:20:30fatherforkThat would be Georgia, USA
09:20:34webguest57Is the bug described in, msgs 87-89 already fixed? (Scrolling in the FM presets list) I think in the yesterday's build the bug is still present.
09:21:00InteliWaspi need to get some sleep, later all!
09:21:04Bagderwebguest57: is it filed as a bug report?
09:21:29Bagdermost devs don't read the forums
09:21:37 Quit InteliWasp ("Leaving")
09:21:44webguest57Bagder: according to msg 87, yes. FS #5926
09:21:47Bagderand those who do easily miss things
09:21:50Bagderok, goodie
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09:25:07JdGordonhey all.. does anyone know what button combo on windows changes the monitor orientation ? its spun around 270 degrees
09:25:09webguest62Is it possible to change the type of a task in FS (bug -> patch) after it's been submitted?
09:25:32webguest62JdGordon: it's driver specific IMHO
09:25:34Bagderwebguest62: yeps
09:25:39JdGordonits an intel extreme 2
09:26:01aliaskIt's probably in the tray icon thing
09:26:10webguest62JdGordon: go to display properties, you'll find it there (hopefully)
09:26:45*JdGordon is trying to help my idiot friends over the fone
09:26:46JdGordonbut thanks
09:27:02webguest62aliask: hehe, I once had the same situation. It's very hard to hit the desired spot with the mouse once the screen is rotated
09:27:26JdGordonall fixed..
09:27:31Slasherihmm, i think my scheduler patch should be now ready..
09:27:35*JdGordon goes back to idling
09:27:42aliaskUgh... way too easy to hit...
09:27:46SlasheriBagder: would you like to take a final look on it? :)
09:28:00Slasheriand LinusN also
09:28:28*LinusN looks in the tracker for a scheduler patch
09:28:52*moda falls ovetr
09:29:14Slasherii haven't put it in tracker (yet) because i update that so often
09:29:33webguest62What's about changing of the task type? I erroneously submitted FS #5982 as a bug. But it's a patch.
09:29:39Slasherinow priorities can be even disabled from a setting by user
09:30:20*fatherfork falls asleep above his keyboard and has to get several keys replaced in the morning.
09:30:21 Quit fatherfork ()
09:30:41 Part webguest62
09:31:10linuxstbBagder: The top entry (8 August) on that IPL link you posted is a kernel commit. But yes, there isn't much kernel development...
09:31:30Bagderyes, that's the single one since may 15
09:32:00linuxstbAh, misread your message... I forgot you like making up statistics :)
09:32:07Bagderwebguest62: in case you read, I changed it to a patch now
09:32:12LinusNSlasheri: why would you want the ui to have priority?
09:32:18Bagderlinuxstb: :-)
09:33:20SlasheriLinusN: well, there was a discussion earlier that some users might prefer ui to have priority over playback.. and we can't have both, so now user can select that :D
09:33:35LinusNwhy would those users want that?
09:33:42Slasherii don't really know that..
09:33:47Bagderthat seems like a very odd settting
09:33:57LinusNi think it's a useless option
09:34:00Bagderthat the majority of people won't understand
09:34:02Slasherihmm, so you think it would better not to have that setting at all?
09:34:12Slasheriok, so then i will remove that :)
09:34:46LinusNrockbox is still about playing audio
09:35:40Bagderrockbox is about doom!
09:35:44*Bagder runs
09:35:53aliaskAnd the gameboy emulator!
09:36:21SlasheriLinusN: do you think that priorities should be always used when they are enabled compile time?
09:36:27modahow optimized is rockboy on the ipod video btw?
09:36:32Slasheriat least i don't see any need to disable them
09:36:41LinusNyes i think so
09:36:43Paul_The_NerdClearly Rockbox is about pretty While Playing Screens. Why else would people continually request the ability to see the WPS even when playback was stopped?
09:36:55Slasheriok, sounds good. then there is no need for that setting at all
09:37:39modaLAG WOO
09:37:57Bagdermoda: behave
09:38:01LinusNthis patch would not do us any good if we still have to handle the unprioritized case
09:38:02 Quit sando ("blargh")
09:38:10modasorry, everything lagged out :(
09:38:12linuxstbmoda: There has been almost no work on Rockboy for a very long time. I'm sure there's room for ipod optimisations.
09:38:24modamk then :p
09:38:40Bagdermoda: don't let us stop you from grabbing that task!
09:38:42Paul_The_NerdLots of room for them, I'd imagine.
09:38:58*moda waits for someone to try out video build on 5.5g
09:39:11modaBagder I would if I had any clue about programming what so ever :p
09:39:15linuxstbThere's an ARM assembler Z80 emulation core in iBoy that someone should test...
09:39:26Bagdermoda: you learn quickly once you start trying
09:39:42SlasheriLinusN: at least it made some code cleaner.. especially kernel.c :)
09:39:49modaI tried learning c++ once :|
09:41:09modawhats the enthusiest build for the ipod video?
09:41:27webguest57Paul_The_Nerd: it's not about pretty WPS, it's more about the overall screen/state concept
09:41:48Bagdermoda: the what?
09:42:37modalike what Kosh build is for the h3xx, except for the video...
09:42:48moda aka this
09:42:58linuxstbmoda: Check the forums - there are various unofficial ipod builds.
09:43:00Paul_The_Nerdmoda: There's a whole Unsupported Builds section in our forums for stuff like that
09:43:06*moda slaps head
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09:44:55modanm, found the one i was thinking about ;)
09:45:13modaholy shit you can have a splashscreen now :O
09:45:50Bagderwow, you can actually change what is seen on the screen? </sarcasm>
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09:46:20modaBagder.... bootloader splashscreen :p
09:46:47webguest666is mp3 gapless on rockbox only if encoded with LAME ?
09:46:55*moda leaves
09:48:01Paul_The_Nerdwebguest666: Encoded with lame, or all your songs end on frame boundaries.
09:49:18webguest666hmm, so generally speaking non LAME encoded stuff isn't gapless
09:50:08Paul_The_NerdFor MP3, yes.
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09:50:40webguest666anyone for a beer :>
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10:00:12linuxstbFrom what I've read, it seems that itunes doesn't modify existing MP3s when adding the gapless info - meaning any extra info must be stored in the itunesdb...
10:01:50Paul_The_NerdI'm surprised Apple even bothers with MP3 at all.
10:02:12Paul_The_NerdMP3 has pretty much been treated as "unwanted, but necessary for the unwashed masses to buy our gadget" since the iPod began I think.
10:02:34crwlfrom what i remember, wasn't AAC actually at least as bad as MP3 when it comes to gapless playback?
10:02:59 Join mirak_ [0] (
10:03:05linuxstbYes, it has exactly the same issues as MP3.
10:04:42*petur hopes the anouncement of the 80GB ipod means the disk will finally be available
10:04:53linuxstbOr the opposite - Apple have bought them all...
10:05:05Bagderbut an ipod to get the disk!
10:05:20linuxstbBut no, I've seen some links on misticriver to websites selling the 80GB drive.
10:05:34linuxstbThat was a few weeks ago.
10:06:01peturah... I stopped looking for one months ago - just gave up ;)
10:06:21Paul_The_NerdIf they sold 40gb single platter iPods, I'd probably buy it for the disk, swap it with my H120, and use the 20gb iPod Video for videos, and the 40gb H120 for music.
10:06:23linuxstbI think the price was around 170 euro.
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10:08:54linuxstbAh, checking misticriver again, it seems the supplier advertising availability wasn't being entirely truthful... It's gone back to have no estimated delivery date. :(
10:10:47peturah well... what's another year
10:12:49linuxstbOr as Bagder said, buy an ipod and swap the drives... We need more ipod developers :)
10:13:15peturwhat's the use, I hardly have time for any development :/
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10:19:11webguest01are the early Archos Jukebox players gapless irrespective of coder used ?
10:21:53linuxstbwebguest01: The short answer is no. See here:
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10:22:49BabbelaarI have a BIG question!
10:23:09*LinusN prepares a BIG answer
10:23:15BabbelaarWell I have had Rockbox on my Iriver for about a week
10:23:21LinusNthats big
10:23:29Babbelaarthe quesiton is about to come! :D
10:23:40BabbelaarNow my computer doesn't recognise my iriver at all
10:24:09Babbelaarwhen i connect to it AND when I am on my iriver firmware it says I have 0 Folders and 0 Files when clearly i have +1000
10:24:49BabbelaarWhen my Iriver (H340 that is) says that it is connected to the computer it doesn't appear on the computer at all :(
10:25:01Babbelaarand now my question is how to fix that :D
10:25:28LinusNthere is a risk that the hard drive is either bad, or badly connected inside the iriver
10:25:47BabbelaarDoes that mean it will stay like that forever? :(
10:25:53LinusNuntil you fix it
10:25:58BabbelaarHow do i fix it lol?
10:26:05LinusNis the computer a laptop?
10:26:09BabbelaarA mac
10:26:38BabbelaarIt comes up on my Windows but doesn't come up on my Mac and at school it didin't come up on theri computers either when usually it does
10:27:01LinusNwait a sec, does it work on your windows computer?
10:27:12BabbelaarIt does
10:27:23BabbelaarBut on the windows computers at school it doesn't work when it used to
10:28:06LinusNthen it's 1) not a rockbox problem and 2) not a problem with your iriver
10:28:34Babbelaarbut it only happened after i d/l Rockbox
10:28:50BabbelaarI have had Rockbox for about a week mind you
10:28:54LinusNyou should connect it to the windows computer and perform a scandisk
10:29:22Babbelaarok :)
10:29:41BabbelaarBut if its not a problem with my Iriver or Rockbox then what is the problem lol?
10:29:55LinusNthe file system may be corrupt
10:30:27LinusNpossibly because you have disconnected from usb it in a bad way
10:30:44LinusNwow, that was some nice grammar...
10:31:00BabbelaarI have been doing that ..
10:31:45BabbelaarIs their any reason though why on my Iriver Firmware it says I have no songs but on my rockbox firmware it does?
10:32:00LinusNagain, the file system may be corrupt
10:32:17Babbelaarlol ty
10:32:23Babbelaargtg now ty for the help :)
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10:32:25LinusNscandisk should be able to fix it
10:36:15webguest01do macs recognise non mac file formats ?
10:36:27webguest01i know this isn't a mac forum :)
10:37:06linuxstbAre you running Mac OS 9 or Mac OS X?
10:37:24*linuxstb just sees the quit message :)
10:39:09webguest01in my minds eye I have always envisage Macs as products for aristocrats, and I like what the french did to the nobelese
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10:41:06 Join dan_a [0] (
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10:41:49nudelynanyone know a program, other than mp3tag (doesn't seem to work too well), which will take folder.jpg and put it into wma and mp3 files in the same directory, en mass?
10:45:19aliaskAnyone know why they put ID3v2 tags at the front of the file?
10:45:47linuxstbFor streaming?
10:46:25aliaskYes, that would be a good reason ... :)
10:46:33Bagderand its way faster for rockbox
10:46:43linuxstbBagder: Probably not the reason though :)
10:47:12BagderI think they could forsee Rockbox and thought about us
10:48:23 Join mirak5 [0] (i=53722df5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
10:49:39JdGordonrockbox's read_line function reads one byte at a time until the \n yeah? would changing that to reading a heap of bytes and then seeking backwards if we went to far be faster?
10:52:07Bagderthere's already buffering done
10:52:27JdGordonok, so no then?
10:52:28Bagderso I'm not sure it'll make a noticable difference
10:56:08*LinusN has a deja-vu experience
10:56:42JdGordonwas it as fun the 2nd time around?
10:57:33 Quit ze (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
10:58:30LinusNJdGordon: yes, by you even
10:59:04*moda falls over
10:59:06JdGordonlast time it was brought up no one mentioned buffering.... iirc i was told because its hardly used it wouldnt be worth fixing it...
10:59:24 Join ze [0] (i=ze@
10:59:28modaanyone know how to stick cuesheets into mp3's or oggs?
11:00:22mirak5what is it ?
11:00:44LinusNJdGordon: the buffering is done on the file system level
11:00:48modacuesheets contain the song titles and artists for long mp3 music sets....
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11:01:38Bagdermoda: yes, but they are not "into" music files, they are separate
11:01:56linuxstbmoda: I expect foobar could do it.
11:02:16webguest13I didn't know ipods get a "white screen of death",1895,2015196,00.asp
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11:11:20***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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11:15:19jhMikeSLinusN: You said you sent me a mail yesterday but I never got it. What list was it on?
11:16:58BagderI believe
11:17:19 Join ze__ [0] (i=ze@
11:18:41jhMikeSoh...I thought I had already subscribed there. Guess I'll do it again.
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11:20:35*moda leaves after falling over
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11:51:38lexso, something new on the new nanos?
11:57:49 Part LinusN
11:58:23preglowwhat lex said
11:59:19amiconnLooks like the new nano has got a metal case like the minis
11:59:32amiconnAt least one change for the better
11:59:37preglowmore curious about the internals
12:03:52Paul_The_NerdIt's smaller and yet has more battery life.
12:04:02Paul_The_NerdOr at least "Thinner"
12:04:16Paul_The_NerdSo, that almost guarantees some components have been replaced considering how full it is, right?
12:04:33 Part Paul_The_Nerd
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12:05:54amiconnBetter battery life might point towards PP5022
12:06:41dan_aPerhaps they've done some reverse engineering and managed to getter a better battery life in the same way we do on Archos...
12:06:42amiconnPerhaps also less power-consuming flash and backlight
12:12:36Paul_The_NerdAlso maybe just a better battery as well
12:13:07*SeymourGlass laughs
12:14:10SeymourGlassI see often people here say that ipods & apple sux, but when they release anything new theres a lot of discussion , wishful thinking etc
12:14:40Bagderthose are different people you know
12:14:53Bagderwe don't have a uniform opinion all of us
12:15:26 Quit nudelyn ("At Argon, we're working to keep your money.")
12:16:08belzei just wonder if they improved the sound quality of the nano
12:16:22belzethe actual one sounds quite bad with the apple firmware
12:18:46SeymourGlassI can confirm
12:19:18SeymourGlassthat I'm able to play 720x306 H264 @ 1.5mbps perfectly with firmware 1.2
12:19:20lexhmm a black or white ipod video 80GB for me? :p
12:19:33SeymourGlassso we reached ability to watch dvd-like resolutions
12:20:01Paul_The_NerdWhat does that have to do with Rockbox though?
12:20:16belzenothing so far ;)
12:20:35SeymourGlasswho cares
12:20:41Bagderwe do
12:21:11SeymourGlassas long as rockbox has that ticking sound when using ipod, its only a very good project to keep an eye on
12:21:16Bagderhence #rockbox and not #ipod
12:21:45SeymourGlassof course it is not a problem for other players, so rockbox rules, I tried it, but couldn't really listen to that ticking
12:22:02Bagdernever heard about that before
12:22:20Paul_The_NerdNobody's actually reported a ticking on Rockbox on iPod, have they?
12:22:31Bagdernot that I've seen
12:23:12SeymourGlassBagder: I reported it about a week ago
12:23:21SeymourGlasstheres also a forum post about this
12:23:33Paul_The_NerdDid you actually file a bug report in the tracker?
12:23:36SeymourGlassthe people here said that its a known bug but they have no solution for it right now
12:23:38Paul_The_NerdAnd, could you point me to the forum post?
12:23:46Bagderyeah, there's a report #4937
12:24:11Bagderalthough nobody has filed any comments in there
12:24:21Bagderin spite of lostlogic's questions
12:24:23lexhow like is the video played on a tv with a 5g?
12:24:27lexis it blurry? :o
12:24:34SeymourGlasslex: its great
12:24:41lexreally? :o
12:24:41SeymourGlassnow its just awesome
12:24:47lexhmm i gotta buy a video then
12:24:50lex80GB of course
12:24:57SeymourGlassyou can do 1.5mbps 720x306 @ 30fps
12:25:14SeymourGlassno scene released xvids has that bitrate
12:25:18Paul_The_NerdSeymourGlass: As you may have noticed not only is that bug report many months old, but the poster never responded to the questions asked of him. Which makes it very hard for further work to happen.
12:25:22lexi know
12:25:28Paul_The_NerdSeymourGlass: Also, this isn't the right place to talk about changes in the Apple firmware.
12:25:37SeymourGlassPaul_The_Nerd: I will point you to the post
12:25:38lexPaul_The_Nerd: don't whine about it now, i just want to know
12:25:39SeymourGlasswait a sec
12:25:49BagderI would actually expect reports without responses to get closed after a given time
12:25:55lexPaul_The_Nerd: i have a photo and i want to buy a video to replace it :(
12:26:01Paul_The_Nerdlex: PMs do exist.
12:26:40lex30 euros for that charger? no way :(
12:26:47SeymourGlassBagder: there was a discussio about this
12:26:53Paul_The_NerdBuy the cheapest powered USB hub you can find.
12:26:54SeymourGlassI can't find it anymore
12:26:57BagderSeymourGlass: not in the report
12:27:12SeymourGlassBagder: well I don't care for birocraty, I didn't make that report anyway
12:27:13Bagderdevelopment should never rely on anything in any forum
12:27:14Paul_The_NerdSeymourGlass: The forums are *not* where bugs should be reported or discussed if anyone wants actual action to occur.
12:27:25SeymourGlassPaul_The_Nerd: I didn't
12:27:28BagderSeymourGlass: so shutup then
12:27:49SeymourGlassI just got the bug, asked here and they explained me that its known
12:27:51Bagderwhining but not helping
12:27:53SeymourGlassI believe it was linuxstb
12:28:15Paul_The_NerdIf Rockbox isn't good enough for you yet, feel free to use the retail firmware.
12:28:39Paul_The_NerdBut as has been said more than once, this isn't the place for discussing firmwares that are *not* Rockbox except in the context of trying to guess how they did something so that Rockbox can improve.
12:28:39SeymourGlassif it wasn't I wouldn't be sitting here
12:30:12SeymourGlassthats the link they gave me
12:30:41Bagderstill, I think adding info in the correct bug report is helpful
12:30:47Bagdertalking about a forum thread is not
12:32:17SeymourGlassOk sorry
12:32:20SeymourGlassNo problem then
12:33:56lexis a black 5g cooler than a white 5g? :p
12:33:59lexi mean the look
12:34:08SeymourGlasslex: pm me
12:34:28lex(13:34:17) [freenode] -!- Private messages from unregistered users are currently blocked due to spam problems, but you can always message a staffer. Please register! ( )
12:34:42lexcan't register my nick, because someone has already taken it
12:34:54SeymourGlassso choose another one
12:35:57SeymourGlassso come to #ipod
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12:54:41webguest24I have a spreadsheet which will graphically display freq response according to parameters, but its 177KB zipped, and therefore can't upload it to the forum, anyway one opf you can do it, its really handy to visualise EQ settings
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12:55:56preglowis it the rbj one?
12:56:02preglowif so, just link to the one on
12:56:07webguest24yes thats the one preglow
12:56:20webguest24ah thats where it came from, thanks
12:57:09preglowthat's the exact filters we use, so yes, that might be helpful for some people
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13:11:22***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
13:12:46Mmmmpetur: how was scotland? make friends with many midges?
13:13:14peturdon't start about midges - they're awful
13:13:51MmmmI think if you stay near the coast you can avoid them but otherwisae it's hell
13:13:59peturthe book I read was wrong - midge season ends mid september, not earlier :/
13:14:03preglowwhat the hell are midges? :>
13:14:13Mmmmyou really dont weant to know!
13:14:38aliaskTiny mosquito things, they are terrible.
13:14:49preglowwe get tons of those in norway
13:14:49peturvery tiny and lots of them
13:15:01preglowat least similar things
13:15:44preglowtons of insects in all
13:16:14Mmmminsects I have no problems with but midges should all die!
13:16:27*petur agrees with Mmmm
13:16:28preglowwhat do they do that's so annoying?
13:16:56peturonce one has found you it releases something that attracts the rest of them
13:17:10preglowi thought all insects behaved like that :>
13:17:20Bagdermidges seem to be the same mosquito also very common in northern Sweden
13:17:27Bagderduring summer
13:17:37preglowthen i bet it's the same we get here
13:17:45preglowalthough we get all sorts up here
13:17:51preglowyes, knott indeed
13:18:36*Paul_The_Nerd hasn't been bitten by an insect in over a year.
13:18:52Paul_The_NerdI think they stopped liking me.
13:18:59MmmmIf whenever you meet one it causes you to wrap whatever you can get your hands on around your head and lots of swearing and running around in circles then they are the same things!
13:19:29peturheh - I recognize that behaviour
13:19:30preglowwhenever it's warm enough to comfortably sit outside, there's insects
13:19:34preglowwhen there's insects, i get bitten
13:19:44BagderI can recommend the tsetse flies
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13:21:48*petur reads that an area of 2m x 2m produces about 500000 midges
13:21:58preglowyes, the do keep it going
13:22:08*Mmmm passes out in fear
13:22:16preglowi wonder what 'klegg' is called in english
13:22:18preglowthey're nice too
13:22:30Bagderdon't know that one
13:22:36preglowalso, they really bloody bite
13:22:42webguest20H140, files within a directory dont display when using remote to navigate
13:23:02Mmmmwho else read flies instead of files there? :D
13:23:18webguest20using default rockbox wps
13:23:26webguest20for boh main and remote
13:23:35Paul_The_NerdWhat if you use the main unit to navigate?
13:23:40webguest20works fine
13:23:45Bagdervery strange
13:23:58Paul_The_NerdAre you saying folders are showing up empty?
13:24:05Paul_The_NerdOr what, exactly?
13:24:13Paul_The_NerdSo, you see the folders, but not their contents?
13:24:40webguest20no, I select my music folder> enter and just the cursor shows
13:25:03Paul_The_NerdAnd your music folder has subfolders?
13:25:23webguest20album - artist
13:25:40Paul_The_NerdIs this new behaviour, or has it been doing this for a while?
13:26:12webguest20i thought i waould try my remote today, just to see how it works, and this is what i get
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13:26:33webguest20i dont normally use remote so this is the first time i notice this
13:26:56*tucoz tells Bagder and preglow that "klegg" is called "broms" in sweden
13:27:13Bagderthey can bite
13:27:25preglowreally, now
13:27:27Bagderthey're in the tsetse league indeed
13:27:32Paul_The_Nerdwebguest20: And do you see *anything* on your screen when you enter the folder, besides the status bar?
13:27:49webguest20using the remote, no
13:27:52tucozhave you been bitten by a tsetse fly?
13:28:05Bagderseveral in fact
13:28:15tucozisn't those that can spread sleeping desease?
13:28:19Bagderthey do
13:28:24tucozDid you get it?
13:28:25Paul_The_Nerdwebguest20: What exactly are you pressing?
13:28:28Bagderbelieve me, I tried to avoid it
13:28:35Bagderno I didn't
13:28:44Mmmmmidges are more in the swarm, annoy and nibble and annoy some more variety than the big bite variety
13:28:55tucozI got dengue fever in thailand. That was ...well... a tough one
13:28:58Bagdertsetses are as fast as normal flies
13:29:08webguest20Paul: lower right remote slider
13:29:20Bagdertucoz: whoa, I can imagine
13:29:57Paul_The_Nerdwebguest20: Try clicking the top-left slider in, on a folder.
13:30:06preglowtucoz: ouch
13:30:31Mmmmwebguest20: that's the scroll button, scroll back with vol - and then press NAVI to enter the directory
13:30:36tucozI fainted on the street, and was driven to the hospital. Stayed there for 4 days with intravenous floud (due to the dehydration that I got from the fever)
13:31:52tucozanyway. wonder what those new nanos will cost in norway
13:32:10webguest20ok, that worked, silly me using the vol button, as a nav button
13:32:17tucozmaybe the same as the old ones
13:32:24Paul_The_Nerdwebguest20: The controls *should* be covered in the manual, I believe.
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13:32:32preglowtucoz: probably nothing too far off
13:32:39webguest20sorry about that
13:32:44preglowi fear i've caught some kind of apple disease
13:32:48preglowi find i really want a new nano now :>
13:32:59Paul_The_NerdThose aluminum shells are kinda sleek.
13:33:02tucozhehe. yeah. those look nice
13:33:11Paul_The_NerdOr "aluminium" depending on where you're from.
13:33:19preglow"aluminum" cracks me up
13:33:42webguest20what threw me was the response I was getting when using the remote volume button to navigate, strange behaviour
13:33:56tucozi don't think i will ever catch an apple disease after spending some time in OS X the last couple of days.
13:34:25Bagdertucoz: as a punishement for something stupid you did? ;-)
13:34:25webguest20ahould the remote volume button affect/navigate like that
13:34:25chendo_i want a macbook... then install linux on it ;/
13:34:27chendo_or something
13:34:36chendo_and virtualize windows
13:35:00chendo_and might as well run MoL (if that works on the new intel macs)
13:35:31webguest20could the H140 remote volume button be prevented from navigating menus "blankly" ?
13:35:37Mmmmwebguest20: The vol +- buttons scroll the text left/right
13:35:49tucozBagder: I bought an external hd to use for backups and helped my gf backing up her photos. iPhoto is insanely weird in the way it stores stuff on the hd.
13:36:36dan_atucoz: And iTunes isn't?!
13:36:41webguest20ah, so thats it designed feature, thanks
13:36:58tucozand the external hd got cluttered with dot slash files and i am not sure i succeded in backing up those photos...
13:37:16tucozdan_a: I would expect iTunes to be equally insane
13:37:34webguest20now I understand why I was getting blank screens, any way that this 'beahviour could make its way into the manual
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13:39:51webguest20can I disable the horizontal remote scroll feature ?
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13:41:41webguest20the horizontal scroll feature that the remotes volume button has, can that be disbaled ?
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13:52:31webguest20strange how my first instinct navigating with the remote was to use the vol button to expand a directory, dont know where that came from
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13:53:38billodocan somebody point me to the url that details the differences between a cvs and a daily build
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13:56:41webguest20well, thanks for clarifying that up, naughty horizontal scroller
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14:11:27billodotried a daily build from 09-11 on ipod3g...scary buggy.. would cvs build be any better?
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14:15:15linuxstbbillodo: What bugs? But I doubt anything has changed since then...
14:16:36billodolinuxstb: ummm... a lot of bugs... freezes when pause hit, freezes about every 3rd power up
14:17:23billodolinuxstb: not to mention the non-bugs like codec skipping
14:18:22billodolinuxstb: I'm interested in helping out, if I can find a bit of time
14:18:44linuxstbI wasn't aware there were any bugs apart from the codec skipping issue. But there's only one developer working on the 3g, and I think you're the first user I've seen...
14:19:01billodoI was afraid of that
14:19:12billodoperhaps not worth it then
14:20:24billodoI assume there is a prescribed process for reporting these bugs... on the forums?
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14:22:29linuxstbThere's a bug tracker for Rockbox - you could add them to that. Choose "ipod 3g" for the "operating system" category -
14:23:17billodook, cool...I guess this gives me incentive to tear into the code... or go off and fork out the dough for a different target player (any recommendations?)
14:23:36SeymourGlassiAudio X5?
14:24:04billodosounds reasonable,, how much $ ?
14:25:09SeymourGlassI have an ipod
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14:26:07billodoI was hoping that I could breathe new life into my 3G, as I'm sick of iTunes, but alas....
14:26:52billodooh well, its a nice 40gig storage device anyway
14:28:24mirak5linuxstb about clipping in mpeg2 to keep values between 0 and 255, have you understand that it can happen only with corrupted streams with missing datas for exemple are
14:29:01mirak5or/are for any normal stream ? Because if it's the first case, I want to get rid of it.
14:31:46linuxstbSorry, I've no idea. You could try looking in other mpeg2 decoders to see if they do the clipping - e.g. ffmpeg.
14:33:48preglowit happens normally in all transform codecs
14:34:22preglowso i'm pretty sure it almost happens all the time in mpeg video
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14:36:11amiconnSlightly out-of-range value can always happen due to roundoff errors, qunatisation and stuff
14:36:45amiconnSevere out-of-range values are usually due to a corrupt datastream
14:36:53amiconnSo no, the clipping has to stay
14:37:07preglowit usually just happens as a direct consequence of the original data being reconstructed from just some of its coefficients
14:37:18dan_abillodo: I'm the dev with a 3G - I've not noticed these sorts of things on mine, but most of the time I'm running experimental things on it.
14:37:24preglowthat's why mp3 files clip so badly all the time
14:38:06amiconnAll the time?
14:38:28*amiconn didn't notice any clipping in decent mp3 encodings
14:38:53preglowall the time
14:39:10preglowit's not always immediately noticable
14:39:36preglowit's a really good reason to use replaygain
14:39:52preglowamiconn: i can give you an example when i boot windows afterwards
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14:43:06JdGordoncan make be run from inside gdb so i dont have to keep quiting then rerunnig it aagain for the sim?
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14:51:57JdGordonjhMikeS: i tihnk i got real values saving correctly :D
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15:06:16jhMikeSJdGordon: Really. cool! You're actually saving real values or you neatened up the lookup tables and such?
15:06:51JdGordonatm saving the real value... and converting it to an index for the options list when needed
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15:08:15jhMikeSwhat do you mean saving? How you gonna fit that it the rtc_bits and hd_bits?
15:08:49JdGordonstatic const char *backlight_times_strings[] = {
15:08:50JdGordon _REALVAL("off",-1),_REALVAL("on",0),_REALVAL("1",1),_REALVAL("2",2),
15:08:50JdGordon _REALVAL("3",3),_REALVAL("4",4),_REALVAL("5",5),_REALVAL("6",6),
15:08:50DBUGEnqueued KICK JdGordon
15:08:50JdGordon _REALVAL("7",7),_REALVAL("8",8),_REALVAL("9",9),_REALVAL("10",10),
15:08:50JdGordon _REALVAL("15",15),_REALVAL("20",20),_REALVAL("25",25),_REALVAL("30",30),
15:08:50***Alert Mode level 1
15:08:50JdGordon _REALVAL("45",45),_REALVAL("60",60),_REALVAL("90",90)};
15:09:13JdGordonand that gets pointed to by the *_bits replacement
15:10:34jhMikeSThis is meant to be used by other code such to look up the values too right? What if real values are not char sized?
15:11:09JdGordonreal value has to be int... and yes, other code will be able to convert to/from real value
15:11:21JdGordonthe fake value can either be a char* or a int
15:11:23***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
15:11:34jhMikeSfake value?
15:11:48JdGordonthe strings in above
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15:12:48preglowpetur: btw, seen ?
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15:13:49peturpreglow: now I have
15:14:01peturthis is from the AGC
15:15:12peturthe author of the AGC hasn't been around in months
15:16:03petur(Jvo Studer)
15:16:19preglowthen we should perhaps just commit that patch
15:16:39peturyes, either me or Mmmm or you if you like ;)
15:17:24peturshould check what that balance value should be so it doesn't change anything to the gain
15:17:33preglowyou go ahead :>
15:17:47jhMikeSoh no...more commits in the recording arena...
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15:18:39preglowjhMikeS: what, you got more stuff coming up?
15:18:51***Alert Mode OFF
15:18:52jhMikeSpreglow: yes...lots
15:18:56preglowlike what?
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15:20:18jhMikeSlazy file writing, sample rates, settings by format, enhancements to the way codecs can write data, etc. etc.
15:21:04jhMikeSthough I don't know if AGC should interfere with anything
15:21:29peturprobably not
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15:22:10jhMikeSIs the AGC strictly software? I haven't noticed it on the x5 but I haven't been using it much lately
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15:23:02JdGordonis backlight time of -1 mean off or on?
15:23:03peturthere's a HW AGC in the UDA for the mic (mono) but we don't use it
15:23:11jhMikeSit could be used on x5 then
15:23:29amiconnJdGordon: -1 should be on, 0 should be off
15:23:30jhMikeS-1 is off
15:23:34peturjust put HAVE_AGC in the config file
15:23:53amiconn(with the new code)
15:24:07JdGordonamiconn: but currently? -1 is off?
15:24:09CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
15:24:09*jhMikeS doesn't remember now -1, 0, on, off heh
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15:24:48JdGordonbacklight.c suggests -1 is on..
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15:26:14jhMikeS< 0 = off
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15:26:54*JdGordon shoots jhMikeS...
15:27:07JdGordonthe backlight code expects a index, not a time in seconds...
15:27:29daurn_this connection
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15:27:42JdGordon.. or is that what we want to get rid of?
15:27:44jhMikeSonly backlight_set_timeout which converts it to a timeout internally
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15:28:06jhMikeSand (remote_*set*)
15:28:43*jhMikeS notices a pain in his ass
15:29:08*petur wonders where JdGordon shot
15:29:50*JdGordon starts to think this settings rework is gonna fail because of the sheer bloody size of it :'(
15:29:59jhMikeSIf you change the -1=off,0==on thing
15:30:19jhMikeSbacklight code will have to be all changed too
15:31:13jhMikeSJdGordon: It's not smaller/same when compiled?
15:31:23JdGordonits much smaller atm...
15:31:52JdGordon~11kb on h300
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15:32:30*jhMikeS is thinking about how to make those arrays of real values tiny
15:33:23JdGordonnoooo.... its good enough... it wont be used often i dont tihnk..
15:33:48jhMikeSI think the displayed string and talk parts should go there too
15:34:16JdGordonanyway, now the real values thing works im going to undo the changes for backlight so it takes an index again and move on.. it can be done after this is commited (it it is)
15:34:24JdGordonjhMikeS: they do
15:34:29***Alert Mode OFF
15:35:04jhMikeSAll data for a setting can be combined in one entry then? String/Talk/value/cfg file string?
15:35:07JdGordonjhMikeS: this is the header which defines the list item struct..
15:35:24JdGordoneverything... type, talks, strings, option callback
15:35:35JdGordon+ how to store it in the config
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15:36:40JdGordon is a snippet of what the list array actually looks like
15:37:21jhMikeSI think all callbacks should be able to take a pointer to data.
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15:37:32*JdGordon agrees
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15:40:16mirak5amiconn an out of range value would result in a bit between 0 and 255.
15:40:20jhMikeSbut the real values don't do into the settings list too then?
15:40:30JdGordonthey do
15:41:27mirak5on the streams I have I see not difference. but well getting read of that doesn't improve that much since it's once per dot, unlike idct wich need to get 16 times a dot.
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15:42:07JdGordone.g... repeat mode (as a bad example if it were to use them), would change to CHOICE_ITEM(0,repeat_mode,LANG_REPEAT, REPEAT_ALL, NULL,NUM_REPEAT_MODES, REALVAL(LANG_OFF,1),REAL_VAL(,LANG_ALL,16)...
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15:45:31JdGordonjhMikeS: u can check out the whole patch so far at;filename=changes.diff
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16:02:04 Quit petur ("later")
16:08:10jhMikeSJdGordon: how bout doing away with the global_settings structure too or at least explicit definition of it? I suggested having macros that are different with different defined so various structures and array and such can be automatically generated.
16:08:58JdGordoni rekon thats a bad idea... all setting variables should be "global" and centralised...
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16:09:09JdGordonhow else would the plugins/codecs access them?
16:09:20tucozIs it possible to delete a wiki page?
16:09:58tucozRockblox is still in the wiki. Should I delete it, or simply remove the CategoryPlugin from the page?
16:10:05jhMikeSJdGordon: they would be centralized and in the global_settings struct still but no explicit editing of that structure should be needed
16:10:51JdGordonanother thing.... you wont be able to easily scan the settins list visually to find the setting you may be looking for
16:11:18JdGordonwell you would.. but it might not look "as nice"
16:11:37tucozI just delete the topic
16:12:28tucoz...or not. I am not allowed to do so.
16:12:40JdGordononly one way to find out....
16:12:43jhMikeSJdGordon: Just add a comment line right before it maybe?
16:12:45bluebrothertucoz, why not add a note that it has been removed? So it's at least available as a reference.
16:13:01tucozah, yes. probably better
16:13:02JdGordonjhMikeS: ye, but... i dunno....
16:13:10tucozbut remove it from the plugin index?
16:13:29tucozas it is not shipped with rockbox
16:13:40bluebrotherchanging the topic so it doesn't show up on the PluginsIndex page.
16:14:03bluebrotherwasn't that done by changing the category?
16:14:50tucozyes. Just remove the CategoryPlugin stuff at the bottom of the page
16:15:07bluebrothermaybe using a new category "old plugins" or similar for people who are still using an older release of rockbox.
16:15:08jhMikeSJdGordon: I'm adding an ARRAYLEN macro initally for my convenience cause that sizoef(items)/sizeof(*items) is so damn common
16:15:33tucozok. Do you think I can create that category?
16:15:53tucozJust call it CategoryOldPlugin?
16:16:00bluebrotherafaik it is simply another wiki page.
16:16:04bluebrothersounds good.
16:16:05jhMikeSJdGordon: I know...ya don't give a s**t! :)
16:16:19JdGordon:) no.. im half asleep
16:16:45jhMikeSJdGordon: I'm half awake :)
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16:17:44tucozI can create a OldPluginIndex page as well
16:17:58 Quit dan_a ()
16:19:41jhMikeSThings look way better having them condensed and localized like that though. I think I like it. Why is -1 "on" for bl now? Oh...I know amiconn just wants a ludicrous timeout period that is effectively "on". :)
16:19:53jhMikeSIf you make it unsigned
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16:22:03jhMikeSIt would stay on for 497 days then
16:22:15tucozanyone know how to comment text in the wiki?
16:23:40bluebrothercomment text?
16:24:18tucozYes, like % in .tex or // in c++
16:25:23tucoznevermind. We can keep the old plugins in CategoryFrontPage for now
16:25:28bluebrothermaybe using html comments, i.e. <!−− my comment −−>
16:26:17bluebrotherthat ipod screenshot on the rockbox page is tetrox, isn't it?
16:28:34tucozgrr. I called the page CategoryOldPlugin instead of OldPluginIndex
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16:29:02bluebrotherok, removed it. Also, I don't think it's good to have screenshots stored outside of the wiki.
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16:29:23jhMikeSJdGordon: Need that change for the LCD sleep too
16:29:38maddog012any new h10 releases?
16:29:45amiconnjhMikeS: 2 reaosns: (1) It's more logical. (2) Interpreting the value unsigned, we could even save the check for always-on, as -1 would map to a timeout of 2^32-1 seconds
16:30:11bluebrothertucoz, doesn't look too bad for me. At least CategoryOldPlugin isn't a missing wiki page in that case ;-)
16:30:42 Join Febs [0] (
16:30:52amiconn(roughly 136 years)
16:30:56maddog012is the barry wardell's new keymap in the new daily release of h10?
16:30:57jhMikeSamiconn: I know- 497 days! :) I _could_ keep it plugged and running that long
16:31:03tucozI know. But to follow the old scheme, CategoryOldPlugin should be a description of that Wiki-word, and OldPluginIndex should be the list.
16:31:13amiconnjhMikeS: No, the backlight timeout is in seconds, not ticks
16:31:17JdGordonjhMikeS: ye, its a bit of work, so as far as im concerned it can wait :)
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16:31:48Arathismaddog012: I think so, though it's some days old now. on the other hand you could also use bleeding edge builds
16:31:58tucozbluebrother: Hmm, that I can fix myself actually.
16:32:39maddog012Arathis:, that the bleeding edge one?
16:32:39bluebrotherindeed :)
16:33:10bluebrothermaddog012, no, that's the daily. The bleeding edge is
16:33:20Arathismaddog012: thats bleeding edge
16:33:24maddog012AH yes
16:33:34Arathisokay, .shtml ..
16:33:53Arathisbuild from latest CVS evertime CVS is changed
16:34:07amiconnjhMikeS: Do you think any rockboxable device could last that long? ;)
16:34:37jhMikeSamiconn: right...perhaps it should just be ticks? 136 years seems a bit overboard
16:35:50tucozbluebrother. I think i got it fixed now
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16:36:01*jhMikeS used 365.2425 days/year for that
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16:37:35bluebrothertucoz, nice.
16:39:34jhMikeSJdGordon: I want it now! now! now! now! now! ;)
16:40:06jhMikeSThem's fightin' words!
16:40:50*JdGordon going to bed, ttyl
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16:47:25jhMikeSamiconn: I'm just saying if we have to multiply by HZ it will overflow or else the tick task should return immediately if 1s hasn't passed since the last call
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17:03:46tucozI can not access the net from vmware. Anyone know how I can do this?
17:04:54netmasta10bttucoz: its ez −− is it windoze?
17:05:10tucozno. it's a linux image i run from windows
17:05:23netmasta10btwhat distro
17:05:36netmasta10btit didnt dhcp huh
17:05:47netmasta10btcan u check if it grabbed an ip ?
17:05:53tucozHow can i do that?
17:05:59netmasta10btifconfig -a
17:06:43tucozwhat should I look for?
17:07:06netmasta10btwell your interface is prolly eth0 −− it should have an inetaddr
17:07:40netmasta10bt192.168.?.? most likely if your behind a internet router
17:07:49tucozthen it didn't succeed. eth1 is connected to localhost ((
17:07:58netmasta10btwell thats your loopback
17:08:06netmasta10btis there no eth0?
17:08:14tucozno. There isn't
17:08:47netmasta10btjust eth1, thats odd −− is it a laptop or desktop machine
17:09:17tucozlaptop. I think eth0 is my wireless card
17:09:32tucoznot sure. i really suck at this stuff
17:10:07netmasta10btahh −− ok most likely is xubuntu didn't configure your wifi card cuz it doesnt have a driver −− i've never used xubuntu though
17:10:16bluebrothertucoz, vmware has its own, "virtual" network devices.
17:10:38bluebrotherthe loopback device usually should be named lo
17:10:55tucozI have my wifi card turned off. I am connected to the router by a cable
17:10:55netmasta10btyeah sorry, it should have received an ip from the vmware dhcp server
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17:11:39bluebrotheralso, it depends on the configuration of vmware how you get connection to the network. I assume the rockbox image uses NAT, so your IP will be in a private network
17:11:55bluebrotherbut that doesn't necessarily need to be
17:12:28tucozshould I select bridged, NAT, or host only=
17:12:35bluebrotheryou could try issuing "ifup eth0". Unfortuately I don't know the image
17:13:04bluebrotherI usually use NAT. To the "world" outside this looks like I'm connecting from the guest OS.
17:13:38bluebrotherbut I haven't used vmware for quite some time ...
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17:17:08tucoznetmasta10bt, bluebrother. Thanks for the help. I got it working by ifdown eth1 and ifup eth1
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17:49:11timofonicAn idea: What about Rockbox for... Nintendo DS? I think it has enough processing power for it, am I ok? :)
17:50:01timofonicThe touch screen and two screens could provide cool stuff, like putting stupid graphical shit on the not-touch screen and using the touch screen for controlling
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17:55:22preglowDS isn't exactly hyper-powered
17:56:06preglowbut i guess the 67mhz arm9 core should do
17:56:44timofonicIt has two cores
17:56:51preglowthe other one is a 33mhz arm7 core
17:56:52preglownot very fast
17:57:02timofonicBut you can use both at same time, no?
17:57:05preglowtell ya what. buy me one of those new ds and a flashcart, and i'll look into it :>
17:57:19timofonicpreglow: What about a public bounty? :)
17:57:41timofonicpreglow: I have no money ATM, and I will save for Wii and DS with flashcart heh
17:57:50preglowsure you can use both cores, but it's not as simple as that
17:57:59preglowthe arm7 core can only be used for relatively cheap stuff
17:58:00timofonicI suposse
17:58:01preglowlike the ui, perhaps
17:58:12preglowthen again
17:58:18preglowi bet we can do a hw accelerated gui on ds
17:58:31timofonicEven it can do 3D, hehe
17:58:58timofonic(it seems it have 3D hw functions)
17:59:28linuxstbSeems there is a working Linux kernel port to the DS...
17:59:41timofonicAnd quite many scene dev stuff
18:00:00timofonicWhat about a public bounty for a Nintendo DS + a flash cart?
18:00:44timofonicIf I get a work soon, then I can buy it. Sadly, it's very unprobably :P
18:00:51preglowi don't know what interest there would be for it
18:00:54preglowhow can you put music on it?
18:01:02timofonicflash cart, they use SD
18:01:22timofonicAnd I'm sure scene coders can helo in the task too
18:01:34timofonicSorry, typo
18:01:46preglowit would be fun, for sure
18:01:53 Quit theli_ua ("Leaving")
18:02:08timofonicMost carts use SD, 80% of them
18:03:07*linuxstb proposes buys every developer a DS...
18:03:15timofonicSuperCard, M3, G6...
18:03:31timofoniclinuxstb: Hehe
18:03:46preglowit's got sixteen hardware channels
18:04:10preglowhell, i'd take a ds for sure
18:04:13preglowlooks like a cool little thing
18:04:21timofonicNice :)
18:04:49timofonicWhat about setting a public bounty on That could be nice for DS users :)
18:05:09timofonicmoonshell is nice, but not plays the audio formats supported by rockbox...
18:05:30timofonicpreglow: I can inform you about DS scene an available flash carts
18:05:48linuxstbWhat's involved in running your own code on the DS? Do you need to buy any extra hardware?
18:06:06timofonicpreglow: I'm part of the staff of a DS page. I'm still not have a DS but I will get one soon...
18:06:13 Quit apo`` (Remote closed the connection)
18:06:26timofoniclinuxstb: You need a "flash cart", most of them uses a SD and do streaming using RAM as cache
18:06:54preglowi'm trying to find some info on the cpus, but i can't find any
18:07:02preglowwould be very interesting to see what caches they've got, etc
18:07:49timofonicThose carts are inserted in the GBA port, but some new ones uses the DS port. There are no problems about using the GBA port, using a hacked firmware you run them in DS mode, but there are a thing named superkey...
18:08:14timofonicpreglow: I can find that stuff asking to people from our page if you want
18:08:18timofonicpreglow: And I know some devs
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18:09:49preglowbut yeah
18:09:59preglowthis thing can almost certainly be used as a rockbox platform
18:10:17preglowthe hardware also makes it very well suites as a mod player :P
18:11:11preglowlooks like it doesn't have much ram, though
18:11:49timofonicLately, you can use the flash cart's ram as ram too
18:11:59timofonicdiscovered by people from the DSLinux project
18:13:07lowlighthmmm....someone suggesting that itunes is using the lame header:
18:13:28lowlightfor gapless
18:13:53linuxstbI read a report that seeking in an mp3 breaks gapless on the ipod...
18:15:03daurnimatorwhat do you guys think of new ipod?
18:15:11daurnimator - and selling of crap games
18:15:30daurnimator(ipods) - plural
18:17:03lowlightI wonder what's in the new iriver S10.
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18:19:51rageaholis barrywardell here?
18:20:04rageaholguess so, i got the nick-complete to work. heh.
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18:21:30linuxstbSo there's a h10, u10, t10, e10 and now an s10? Now that's great marketing...
18:21:50linuxstbOh, and an n10...
18:21:57daurnimatorand a clix
18:22:18linuxstbNo i10 yet though?
18:23:22preglowdoesn't look like the ds has very much ram at all
18:23:26preglowin which case this'll become "fun"
18:23:30lowlightand g10 :)
18:23:31bluebrotherquite a number of letters left for new players ;-)
18:24:00*daurnimator looks at archos..... 104 204 404 504 604
18:24:09lowlightohhh v10 too.
18:24:44preglowoohh, but the core has very snappy dsp instructions!
18:25:04*linuxstb sees preglow getting very curious...
18:25:34*daurnimator points at archos gmini 402
18:25:42daurnimatordo that port for me instead!
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18:27:22timofonicpreglow: Some pages... (don't be afraid about the name, it's an interesting page),
18:27:47timofonicpreglow: I will ask to homebrew DS devs for more pages and info
18:27:53barrywardellme is here sounds like a domain i'd buy
18:28:41daurnimatorisn't that liranura's?
18:28:46daurnimatoror someone i know
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18:29:35rageaholhi barrywardell
18:29:44rageaholthe newest h10 firmware has issues
18:29:48rageaholi thought i'd mention it to you
18:29:51timofonicpreglow: Hehe
18:30:05timofonicpreglow: That's the best one, it has a great DS dev section
18:30:27barrywardellwhat issues?
18:30:31rageaholit doesnt advance to the next song in a directory, or in a playlist, and i cant get to the menus to check the settings with the ff and rew buttons.
18:30:50daurnimatortimofonic: is it liranura's site?
18:30:52rageaholinstead, they work as up/down in a list
18:31:20timofonicpreglow: Development Resources > DS > Documents: ARM documentation, NDSLIB user guide, ARM9 tech reference, Neimod's DS Tek documentation
18:31:23barrywardellrageahol, i set them as page up/page down while in a list
18:31:26rageaholmaybe if theres a configuration file on there i need to modify, i dont know. i simply replaced the 090906 (i think) firmware with yesterday's
18:31:27timofonicdaurnimator: Not remember
18:31:35rageaholoh. how do i get to the settings then?
18:31:49preglowme bbl
18:31:51barrywardellthe keys all changed a few days ago
18:31:58timofonicdaurnimator: But drunkencoders is not the site of one guy, they are at least a few...
18:32:00barrywardellsettings are now a short press of power
18:32:14barrywardellpower button
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18:32:35timofonicpreglow: I will give you more info when devs reply me :)
18:32:38timofonicMe away too
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18:33:37rageaholoh, okay
18:33:41rageaholmy bad
18:34:18Arathisbarrywardell: any suggestions if this ( could be an H10 issue?
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18:35:37barrywardellI can't see how it would affect H10 specifically
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18:36:16Arathisme either, but I only have an H10 so I can't test it on an x5
18:36:21barrywardelldoes the same thing happen on the x5?
18:36:39Arathisdon't know, but its the only device with same screensize
18:37:01timofonicpreglow: <−− forums, read the stick ;)
18:37:04*daurn castrates his net connection
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18:37:44Arathisbarrywardell: sometimes the progressbar even goes to the end of the line although it shouldn't
18:39:04Arathisanyone with an x6 who could test the wps?
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18:40:35Arathis*x5 not x6 ^^
18:41:02Davide-NYCQuestion: Does anyone know what's happening with the DivideByZero recording bug?
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18:42:59Arathisare the x5 all dead already? :)
18:43:10barrywardellI think it would be good to find someone with an X5 and test it too
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18:43:31barrywardellthat way we can see if it's specific to the H10 or a more general wps problem
18:43:48Arathisthat was my suggestion
18:47:22barrywardellah, think I see the problem
18:47:26barrywardellpb.bmp isn't wide enough
18:47:33Arathisit isnt0?
18:47:54Arathisbut it's as long as the bar
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18:48:11Arathismiscalculation than :0/
18:48:25Arathis(amn keyboard ..)
18:48:45barrywardellthe bar is ~150, pb.bmp is 116
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18:53:06barrywardellArathis: I just tried making it bigger and didn't get that graphical glitch any more
18:53:41Arathismade it too. will try it. thanks
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19:04:38Arathisbarrywardell: the problem that the bar goes to the end of the screen is fixed. don't know why, but the wps file had the wrong coordinates in it
19:05:21LearSlasheri: Minor thing with the scheduler patch (#3): When playing Oggs, text scrolling on the WPS varies in speed (depending on if the CPU is boosted or not, I guess). It looks a little bad... :)
19:05:32LearI haven't noticed any other problems.
19:05:49SlasheriLear: Hmm, what version of patch is that? #3?
19:06:03SlasheriPlease try with v6 :)
19:06:20barrywardellArathis: so everything is ok now? Nice WPS btw.
19:06:24LearHaven't been looking for new versions...
19:06:33Slasheriv7 is just same as v6 with the menu stuff ripped off (not yet in web)
19:06:58Arathisbarrywardell: yes. and thanks. for helping and finding it nice ^^
19:07:09 Quit ender` (" Free Speech Is The Right To Shout 'Theater' In A Crowded Fire.") can I make text blink in a WPS? e.g. when playback is paused
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19:19:50ArathisI know blinking text is possible in wps, but I can't find out how :(
19:21:05bluebrotherArathis, use an alternating subline with the text replaced with an empty line
19:21:36Arathisah. thats a fine way. thanks :)
19:21:39*Arathis is happy
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19:22:54mirak_Lear: was it you who optimised yuv2rgb fonction on ipod ?
19:23:22Learmirak_: Nope. Maybe amiconn.
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19:27:04Slasherithat also fixed slight unnecessary ui lag when buffering and codec thread fights
19:28:02Slasheriif nobody finds issues / have objections regarding the latest patch, i will probably commit in few days and see how people likes it :)
19:28:29amiconnMy biggest objection is code size
19:28:47Slasheriamiconn: do you mean iram usage or binary size?
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19:28:56Slasherihmm, ok
19:29:21amiconnAnd I still think a new, more complex scheduler only works around the problem instead of solving it
19:29:36Learslasheri: just applied v6, so I think I'll wait with that rc a bit...
19:29:52SlasheriLear :)
19:30:36Slasheriamiconn: hmm, i don't really see other nice ways of solving the cpu/system usage other than solving it on the kernel level
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19:31:07Slasherithat way application level doesn't need to know how much it can use system resources before problems happen
19:32:25amiconnYes, it works around coder laziness
19:35:57amiconnBut some actual questions from looking at the patch:
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19:36:42amiconn(1) Why is it necessary to declare current_tick volatile? It worked well without volatile
19:37:44amiconn(2) What's the difference between sleeping, blocked, and blocked with timeout?
19:39:15mirak_amiconn: was it you who optimised yuv2rgb fonction on ipod ?
19:41:01amiconnAnd afaics it isn't optimised. It's the plain C version derived from the yuv->rgb conversion in jpeg.c (which isn't made for speed but for accuracy)
19:41:33amiconn...and the jpeg yuv->rgb is also slightly off for mpeg video
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19:50:58Learamiconn: blocked == waiting in queue?
19:51:15Slasheriamiconn: Hmm, there was a reason for the current_tick to be volatile but maybe that was only with my first patches.. I will check that again and declare it as non-volatile if volatile isn't necessary
19:53:42amiconnI wonder about the functional difference between sleeping and blocked
19:53:52Slasheriamiconn: sleeping - task is waiting until current_tick is high enough and scheduler will wake up the task. Blocked - task is blocked by a semaphore or queue. One semaphore / queue can contain many blocked tasks (but only single bloked task with timeout). Blocked with timeout - task is basically same as sleeping task but it's pointer address is stored also in queue so it can be woken up either by scheduler or queue_post event
19:54:15Slasheriblocked task remains blocked until an external event wakes it up
19:54:27Slasherischeduler doesn't even know that blocked threads exist at all
19:54:50Slasheribecause those tasks are not stored in scheduler lists at all
19:54:56amiconnI also wonder whether the constant moving of threads between the assortment of double linked lists really makes things more efficient. I suspect the opposite
19:55:33Slasheriamiconn: i have made a test with a vorbis q8 file
19:55:50Slasheriboost counter before the patch was about 81% and after the patch 78-79%
19:56:28Slasheriso it seems like the improvement is about 2% when task switching doesn't happen very often
19:56:43Slasheriit might be more when task switching happens more often -> more reduced battery usage
19:56:49amiconnYeah, but is that due to priorities, or due to the list handling changes
19:56:50Slasheribut that needs to be tested somehow..
19:57:02Slasherii think that is due to the list handling
19:57:09amiconnI would expect one single thread list to be more efficient
19:57:30Slasheribecause unnecessary task switches have been eliminated
19:57:42amiconn...just walked along in a round-robin fashion, maybe storing the state (running, sleeping) in the list
19:57:58amiconn...instead of leaving that to the thread itself
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19:58:49amiconnI would guess that the gain you observe is due to the reduced thread switching, not due to the linked lists
19:59:42linuxstb_mirak: Tom Meyer made some optimisations to the ipod video lcd_yuv_blit() function which I committed, and also applied to the Nano/Photo ipods.
20:00:43 Quit frobnitz ("leaving")
20:04:02Slasheriamiconn: ah, of course
20:05:12 Quit linuxstb_ ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
20:05:38Slasherii just liked about the idea of linked lists in the kernel and have used it before and have seen also other kernels using it :)
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20:09:00 Quit fatherfork ()
20:11:59mirak_linuxstb: that function is not part of mpegplayer ?
20:12:07amiconnLinked lists have their advantages, but for the thread list I think it's unnecessarily complex
20:12:24mirak_are there asm versions of memset and such ?
20:12:53Slasheriamiconn: then there would be a problem how to store many blocked tasks in one mutex if lists are not used at all
20:13:19Slasheriif we want to treat blocked tasks also a special way and not task switch every time
20:13:19amiconnThe thread list is neither very long, nor does it manage variable-length data
20:13:24mirak_oh ok it's in target folder
20:13:58amiconn(unlike tagcache very linked lists are necessary to keep things efficient)
20:14:49amiconnSlasheri: Do it the other way 'round... store the mutex id in the thread list
20:15:09Slasherihmm, true. that might work
20:15:15 Quit bluebrother ("Leaving")
20:16:21Slasheribut it's hard to say switch one method would be more efficient
20:16:46amiconnI would like to see how now using linked lists but keeping sleeping/blocked markers influences code size, ram and iram usage, and efficiency
20:16:47Slasherifor example unlocking a mutex, in worst case we would have to loop the entire thread list to find the correct id
20:17:21amiconnA thread blocked by a mutex would have that mutex id in its thread entry
20:18:04 Quit linuxstb (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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20:18:05amiconnThe scheduler would check whether that mutex is still locked, and if so, skip that thread for scheduling
20:18:17Slasherihmm.. interesting
20:18:37amiconnBut if it's no longer locked, it would let that thread run, which the locks the mutex itself
20:19:11amiconnThe thread holding the lock would of course not have this entry set, only those threads which are waiting for the mutex to become free
20:19:35amiconn(i.e. are blocked by it)
20:22:12Slasheriok, i will think about redesigning the patch later. removing the lists could make the code slightly cleaner
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20:25:56Davide-NYCMmmm: Any idea about the status of theat DivideByZero bug? That scares me quite a bit.
20:26:06Mmmmjust fixed it!
20:26:13 Part billodo
20:27:00amiconnDavide-NYC: Which bug?
20:27:21mirak_I am looking in lcd-as-h300.S there is this line inside a loop : /* %d2 = -24 * (Cb - 128) - 51 * (Cr - 128) */ I have seen muls is <= 4 cycle . MAC is 2 cycles. inside a loop this can save thousands of cycles.
20:27:51mirak_MAC is 1 cycle. but + moveclr this is 2 cycles
20:27:56Slasheriamiconn: checking the debug menu, normally there are 14 threads of which 7 are blocked 4 are blocked with timeout and the rest 3 threads are sleeping
20:28:05Davide-NYCamiconn: it's not on flyspray anymore,maybe it's been fixed and closed.
20:28:18Davide-NYCit was a crash during reconding on coldfire target
20:28:33Slasheriamiconn: that was why i though using linked lists would be a good thing, so those 7 threads are completely removed from scheduling
20:29:12Slasheribut it's true that with sleeping lists there is currently no improvement because of this behaviour as we check the list at every task switch
20:29:40Slasheriother improvement could be to check that list only when current_tick has been changed
20:29:42amiconnYes, and if threads go to sleep quite often, there is a lot of moving between lists
20:29:59amiconn...and that's certainly more overhead than just setting a flag
20:30:01Slasheriyes.. but they shouldn't go in sleep very often, should they? :)
20:30:24amiconnThreads should go to sleep whenever possible, to save battery
20:30:42amiconnIf all threads are sleeping, the cpu core can go to sleep state
20:30:55Slasheriand if they don't sleep very often, _and_ we would check the sleeping list only when current_tick is changed.. then we wouldn't need to go through the sleeping threads every tie
20:31:15Slasheriof course, but they can sleep more than one tick at once (which is preferred)
20:31:53Slasheriexcept some threads, for example audio thread can't sleep more
20:34:48Slasheriamiconn: i think the current patch could give the best performance when tasks are yielding very often while the other approach would give better performance when tasks are not yielding so often
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20:35:46amiconnI'm not so sure - your patch has many places which are doing lseep_thread(1)
20:36:35amiconnAnd as you said yourself, the code needs to walk the sleepers list anyway (and also check whether a block-with-timeout thead reaches the timeout)
20:37:13Slasheriyep, but i also noticed that is unnecessary until current_tick has changed from the previous value
20:37:17Slasheriso we can count that out
20:37:41amiconncurrent_tick still changes 100 times per second
20:38:13Slasheriyes.. and if threads are yielding more often than that, then it could give a performance improvement
20:38:20Slasheriand i am not sure if they are
20:39:19amiconnOn hwcodec they are most of the time
20:39:41Slasherihmm, then it can't be so bad thing..
20:40:28Slasherion swcodec that probably depends of the bitrate and codec format used
20:40:40 Quit lini ("lini has no reason")
20:42:05amiconnI once measured scheduling round-trip on archos recorder. Got ~600 rounds per second, meaning ~4800 task switches per second
20:42:15amiconn(we had 8 threads running back then iirc)
20:43:08amiconnThat was during playback, and measured with a test plugin
20:43:20Slasherihmm.. do you still have that plugin?
20:43:31amiconnOf course, the mpeg thread has very little to do during playback
20:43:40 Quit karim (Remote closed the connection)
20:43:54amiconnThe MAS is fed via DMA and callbacks from an ISR
20:44:28Slasheritrue.. then linked lists could actually work well on hwcodec targets
20:44:47amiconnIt's the rough equivalent of the swcodec playback thread
20:45:07amiconnThe codec thread has no equivalent
20:45:47Slasherithat would mean there are 48 task switches for one run of the sleeping list check function
20:47:14Slasheriso something like going through 48*6 per one tick or 48*2 + 1*sleep_core()
20:47:34mirak_linuxstb_: how much did he gained with asm yuv blit function ?
20:49:16linuxstb_mirak_: Are you talking about the X5 LCD driver?
20:49:38Slasheriand when task switching happens rarely then it doesn't even matter that much how long it takes
20:49:46mirak_linuxstb_: don't know. I though you where talking about ipod
20:49:59mirak_linuxstb_: I have an H300
20:50:18Slasheriso the more often system yields, the better performance the patch would give against just simple linked list
20:52:06linuxstb_mirak_: There isn't an asm optimised lcd_yuv_blit() for the ipods.
20:52:17amiconnI am still curious how it would compare against using a simple list
20:52:36mirak_linuxstb_: there is one for H300 ?
20:52:53mirak_only X5 have one ?
20:53:00amiconnmirak_: utsl
20:53:12mirak_what ?
20:53:15amiconnThere are asm optimised lcd_yuv_blit() versions for both H300 and X5
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20:54:21mirak_ok I was looking at the right place then. I was talking about /* %d2 = -24 * (Cb - 128) - 51 * (Cr - 128) */ this line could use mac.
20:55:25mirak_on 220*176 pixels it can save 220*176*5 cycles
20:56:17mirak_goaaaaaaaaaaaalllllllllllll !!!
20:56:42*mirak_ watches football
20:56:51*mirak_ soccer
20:56:57 Quit bbroke ("Chatzilla 0.9.75 [Firefox]")
20:56:57amiconnI am thinking about using emac for lcd_yuv_blit myself
20:57:03amiconn(not only single-spot)
20:57:33amiconnUsing emac for single multiplications would save nothing, or next-to-nothing
20:57:49mirak_amiconn: unless they are in a loop
20:57:59amiconnEven then
20:58:04mirak_for two muls added that's interesting
20:58:21amiconnI said single multiplictions
20:58:49amiconnBut the yuv->rgb conversion is a matrix multiplication, and I expect some speedup from using emac
20:58:57mirak_muls is 4 cycles. well <=4 I am not sure what this means
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20:59:38mirak_amiconn: a matrix mult ?? how is it ?
20:59:44Slasheriamiconn: now i put the current_tick back to non-volatile and added a check if (last_tick != current_tick) sleep_core(); that should improve the fast task switching performance a lot
20:59:52 Quit barrywardell ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
21:00:23webguest25does a Studio 10 player have the same bass&vol issues as a Jukebox 6000 ?
21:00:28mirak_amiconn: so let's resume, you did the coldfire lcd_yuv_blit() in asm. you want to improve it. right ?
21:01:17amiconnwebguest25: Afaik, no
21:01:34 Quit Davide-NYC ("Chatzilla 0.9.75 [Firefox]")
21:01:34webguest25thanks amiconn
21:01:43amiconnOnly the early players had that problem, arising from too small output capacitors
21:02:00 Join nudelyn [0] (
21:02:10webguest25 i wasn't sure if studio was post 6000
21:02:13amiconnI have a Studio 10 myself, and didn't observe bass problems
21:02:19amiconnIt is
21:02:37webguest25excellent, i'm watching one on ebay, going for real cheap
21:03:17amiconn(upgraded with the 20GB disk left from upgrading my recorder to 80GB)
21:03:45webguest25thats what i intend doing myself, u/grade to 80gigs
21:04:32 Join pike [0] (
21:05:09_jhMikeS_That's wierd people are talking about not scheduling blocked threads. I've been meaning to ask about doing that for about a week. hmm
21:05:28webguest25don't think I'll do the 8 meg ram mod though, looks very complicted, and lots of finicky soldering
21:05:41 Part pike
21:07:37mirak_amiconn: I hardly see a mtrix mult for simple yuv to rgb conversion. for rgb to yuv yes.
21:08:26webguest25i also like the idea of using AA Nimh batteries, never have to worry about OEM batteries, neat
21:09:06_jhMikeS_mirak_: I originally did the asm lcd_yuv_blit for x5 (a bit half-baked though)...amiconn improved it a lot when he adapted it for H300 and then applied the improvements to the x5...
21:09:09 Part webguest25
21:10:13*mirak_ will let amiconn use EMAC ^^
21:10:29 Quit Nibbier (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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21:11:22_jhMikeS_amiconn: so _now_ you're gonna use emac for the yuv? :) You didn't seem to think it would help before.
21:11:30***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21:12:07amiconnIt might or might not help, depending how much extra register shuffling it introduces
21:13:36mirak_common, you do a mul and an add in one cycle
21:14:36 Quit powr-toc ("Leaving")
21:14:58amiconnYes, but you need to fetch the result from the accumulator
21:15:29amiconn...and the execution timing for these moves isn't given in the datasheet
21:16:10mirak_goallllll !! Real Madrid gets torched by Lyon
21:17:06 Quit Mmmm ("Byeee")
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21:18:10mirak_amiconn: that's a hard wired move. I don't think there is a bus between emac and coldfire
21:18:33 Quit Mmmm (Client Quit)
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21:20:49 Quit XavierGr ()
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21:21:44mirak_amiconn: a bench mark would tell
21:21:58 Join perpleXa [0] (n=perplexa@
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21:22:25amiconnIf the emac multiplier is single cycle and the move is single cycle - why does a plain muls/mulu then take 4 cycles?
21:23:44amiconnI'm quite sure the emac-equipped coldfires perform the muls/mulu within the emac multiplier as well, as having 2 multipliers would be a waste
21:24:08*_jhMikeS_ has wondered why himself. Why no single cycle multiplies in general.
21:24:22_jhMikeS_Isn't the emac part optional?
21:24:59amiconn...and then it's very likely that the 4 cycles of mulu/muls is the added time of performing the multiplication in the emac unit and moving the result back to the standard register bank
21:26:21amiconnI think the emac multiplier is single-cycle, but multi-stage
21:27:11_jhMikeS_guess not...must've been something else I read and got confused again :)
21:27:25 Quit lukaswayne9 ("Ex-Chat")
21:27:26mirak_the reason is that emac is magic
21:27:50_jhMikeS_emacgic? :P
21:28:10mirak_block[0] = block[63] = 0; what is this thing doing ?
21:28:38_jhMikeS_same as block[0] = 0; block[63] = 0;
21:30:11dionoeaouh! still optimising the mpeg2 decoder ?
21:31:46amiconn_jhMikeS_: The emac part is optional in that not all coldfires have it, not even all v2 coldfires
21:31:59mirak_amiconn: it might interest you maybe you know it.
21:32:06amiconnAnd coldfires without emac have longer muls/mulu execution times...
21:32:11_jhMikeS_amiconn: I'm not crazy afterall *whew*
21:33:16_jhMikeS_maybe the regular integer multiply is separate and that^ would be a good design reason for it IMHO
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21:33:57*_jhMikeS_ missed the second remark but finds it interesting
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21:34:03mirak_freescale wouldn't give hints on this ?
21:34:39_jhMikeS_amiconn: how much longer?
21:35:53amiconnSignificantly. Check COLDFIRE2UM.pdf
21:36:06amiconnPage 213
21:37:01_jhMikeS_got it open...but pg 213 is DMA
21:37:34BigMacSoap here
21:37:36amiconnNot MCF5249UM
21:37:49amiconnor SCF5250UM
21:37:54BigMacanyone have an h120?
21:38:15_jhMikeS_Rev. 4.0, 10/2003
21:38:45amiconn!= "MCF5249UM"
21:38:46*_jhMikeS_ renamed all his files :)
21:39:49amiconnColdfire2M refers to versions with MAC, Coldfire2 to versions without. The pdf is obviosly too old to know about EMAC
21:42:52BigMacanyone here have any iriver?
21:43:35linuxstb_BigMac: Most people here do.
21:43:43_jhMikeS_whoa up to 20 cycles vs up to 6
21:44:22mirak_what's the library to use the types like uint32_t
21:44:27BigMacanyone have an h320/h12o then?
21:45:16BigMacor a clix?
21:45:25linuxstb_mirak_: inttypes.h
21:45:44_jhMikeS_they should work on the divider unit
21:47:41belzeBigMac: i have a h110
21:48:01BigMacare they as nice as everyone says
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21:48:56BigMacI want to buy one but there hard to come by nowadays and if you find one they are expensive
21:50:16Learmulu takes 4 cycles, because a move(clr) right after a mac stalls for 2 cycles (so it ought to be multi-stage in some way)
21:52:52_jhMikeS_Lear: Can you do something else useful in between the mac and move(clr) if it's not related to the result from the mac?
21:54:10 Join Xoliul [0] (
21:54:20Xoliulhi guys
21:54:40Xoliulanybody mind explaining me a bit on Rockbox for iRiver H10 ?
21:55:29linuxstb_What's the problem?
21:55:39Lear_jhkimes_ Sure, so in this case it should be possible to avoid the stalls.
21:55:53_jhMikeS_Lear: just like x86 asm then
21:55:53Xoliulwell, my iAudio M3 just broke, and i might get an H10 as replacement
21:56:00LearIt needs to be unrelated to the mac, not just the result...
21:56:11Xoliulmain thing that I don't like for H10, is that you need some silly software
21:56:27Xoliulmy M3 was just drag n drop in explorer
21:56:36Xoliuldoes Rckbox do this for h10 ?
21:57:08Xoliuland would it be correct for me to think that i can get an H10 and switch to rockbox right away ?
21:57:20Xoliulas in, not too buggy and all
21:57:37linuxstb_I think it's usable now, yes.
21:57:59XoliulWell, i'd only get an H10 if i can count on Rockbox all the way
21:58:02linuxstb_The biggest issue is probably battery life - it will be less than the original iriver firmware.
21:58:03 Join mason [0] (
21:58:19Xoliulhow much can i expect then ?
21:59:08_jhMikeS_what does the (1/1), (1/0), (0/0) stuff mean in the execution times?
21:59:42linuxstb_I don't think anyone has tested it yet, but I would guess around 60% of the original... We have similar issues with the ipod port (but some ipods are better than others).
22:00:15masonHi people. I just installed itunes 7 on my windows box and it started to update my 5g ipod, but failed compaining my ipod was currupt. Now it won't boot. I've moved back to my linux box to explore the problem and it turns out the partition table is currupt. fdisk give this "Disk /dev/sdc doesn't contain a valid partition table2
22:00:18masonany advice?
22:01:06masonI know I can wipe the ipod and start again, but I really need to copy the music off the HD first.
22:02:55_jhMikeS_never mind...I found the description :)
22:03:41Xoliulok, well sounds not too bad
22:03:50Xoliuland how safe is it to install rockbox ?
22:03:54Xoliulis bricking possible ?
22:03:58mirak_it would be nice to have all mpeg2_decoder_t in iram. I doubt it would fit. there is on 16k array in it
22:04:58_jhMikeS_mirak_: you cant read/write it with movem or memcpy in small bits?
22:07:23mirak__jhMikeS_: maybe this big one could be extracted of the big struct and allocated in sdram.
22:07:45masoncan anyone tell me what the correct partition table looks like on an 5g
22:08:24masonfdisk -l if you're in *nix
22:08:39linuxstb_mason: You can download them from the Rockbox wiki -
22:08:48mirak__jhMikeS_: actually I don't know where it's used, I will look, but I think anything in mpeg2dec struct would be usefull in iram. it's in that struct that DCTblock is. having this one in iram gave 4-5 fps boost direcly.
22:09:12masonlinuxstb_, sweet, thanks for the url
22:09:16mirak_so i imagine it would speed up other parts.
22:10:26linuxstb_Xoliul: I believe a Rockbox install on the H10 is safe - you simply replace a file on the hard disk.
22:10:49mirak_I tried to put the 16k array in iram but it says iram full. If there is 45k iram for plugins, I am not sure what is used to fill as much. there are some lookup tables already. maybe they aren't the best candidates
22:11:10linuxstb_Xoliul: I also don't think anyone has ever bricked a player by installing Rockbox - on anything.
22:13:16thegeekam I the only one that find the new ipod nano ugly?
22:13:38thegeekthe rounded edges look like shit
22:14:05 Quit rretzbach (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22:14:18 Join bluebrother [0] (
22:14:32linuxstb_It's about time someone opened one up...
22:14:45mirak_there is really not one single commentary for most of the code in libmpeg2 :-/
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22:16:11linuxstb_mirak_: Are you sure that array is only 16K? I didn't think mpegplayer used very much iram at all at the moment...
22:16:47mirak_ uint16_t quantizer_prescale[4][32][64];
22:17:24masonthanks linuxstb_ , that worked a treat. I'm now got a breathing ipod again :D
22:17:27mirak_I have not idea what it is used for
22:17:57 Quit mason ("Leaving")
22:18:58 Join HCl [0] (
22:19:25belzeBigMac: even though the h1xx is quite old i would never like to give it away :)
22:19:46belzei replaced the battery this year, cause it was wearing off after 2 years
22:20:27 Quit apo` (Remote closed the connection)
22:20:48BigMaci;m trying to find a good site that compares players
22:20:58BigMacso i can see which i'd like
22:21:26belzewell, i would go for the iaudio x5 today, if i had to
22:21:31linuxstb_mirak: Only 192 bytes of IRAM are used on the h300 in mpegplayer (cvs version) - 3 64-byte arrays. Have you been adding other things?
22:21:56BigMacyah i have looked at that too
22:22:03BigMacand the clix is nice
22:22:12BigMacas is the iauidio 6
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22:23:40mirak_linuxstb_: no, I just tryed to add DCTblock, and that's only 128 bytes
22:23:56*_jhMikeS_ thinks it needs a good strip down on what we won't use
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22:24:51mirak__jhMikeS_: I think some targets could get rid of all scaling things
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22:25:54mirak_H300 for sure, X5 as well, and also ipods. from what says markun only gygabeat could have enough power to profit of this
22:26:59 Join rotator [0] (n=e@rockbox/developer/rotator)
22:28:06linuxstb_mirak_: I've just put the mpeg2dec structure in IRAM, and it compiles file.
22:28:45mirak_great !
22:28:52mirak_maybe I didn't do a make clean
22:28:57BigMacit can't be that good
22:29:10mirak_linuxstb_: can you tell me how you did it ?
22:31:08linuxstb_mirak_: Just add "static mpeg2dec_t static_mpeg2dec IBSS_ATTR;" before mpeg2_init() in decode.c, and replace the call to mpeg2_malloc with "mpeg2dec = &static_mpeg2dec;" in mpeg2_init()
22:32:01linuxstb_It's about 17984 bytes.
22:32:23mirak_what's IBSS ? I used IDATA_ATTR
22:32:57_jhMikeS_mirak_: What is the prescale for? Precision?
22:33:37belzereally funny how steve announces the gapless feature
22:33:37mirak_I have no idea, I was googling for this
22:33:43belzeas if it was a big break-through :P
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22:33:54mirak_linuxstb_: there are a lot of arrays to stuff in iram in vlc.h
22:34:29_jhMikeS_it runs throught that prescale alot depending upon the frame type
22:38:23linuxstb_mirak_: IBSS_ATTR is initialized to zero, IDATA_ATTR is initialised to something in your program, and ICONST_ATTR is constant data.
22:38:58mirak_linuxstb_: it sped up things but not as much as I hoped
22:39:15 Quit chriscool9 ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
22:39:33linuxstb_That's always the question - is the speedup worth 16K of IRAM, or could it be better used elsewhere...
22:39:44mirak_i run elephant dreams 176*96 at 31 fps
22:39:49 Join Chuky1 [0] (
22:40:23Chuky1i just need some info on rockbox
22:40:30linuxstb_mirak_: Any idea what the cvs version of mpegplayer gives?
22:40:33 Join sharpe [0] (
22:40:42*_jhMikeS_ thinks you need to understand this thoroughly and how it works so you can make the proper compromises and do only what it need to do to run video on rb...IMHO
22:40:46mirak_linuxstb_: DCTblock alone gave me a similar boost than the one I get by putting everything in
22:41:08Chuky1does rock box saport art work dispay
22:41:20mirak_linuxstb_: no I can download a snapshot though. but overall I think I gained 10 fps with my asm plus the iram
22:41:28Chuky1and will it void my warrent
22:41:30linuxstb_Not officially - there are unofficial versions of Rockbox which do.
22:41:33mirak_depending on the video
22:42:10_jhMikeS_what's sort of video is the worst case load on an MPEG decoder anyway
22:42:19linuxstb_Chuky1: Yes, installing Rockbox normally voids your warranty.
22:42:25mirak_the asm idct doesn't speed things very much but that's still to be taken
22:42:49Chuky1and the art work?
22:43:05Chuky1can rockbox display ablum art
22:43:07linuxstb_Chuky1: I answered that.
22:43:18Chuky1oh sorry
22:43:21Chuky1thx guys
22:43:33 Part Chuky1
22:44:18 Quit Kohlrabi ("Quit")
22:45:11 Quit mantono ("Don't worry, be happy")
22:45:58quiksilverhello everyone is tehre some one here that can help me with encoding a video for teh h10 6gb (PS i have visited the wiki and tried it out but it has not worked out for me) (
22:46:07mirak_if you do int i; inside a function, is i allocated on stack in IRAM ?
22:46:25linuxstb_mirak_: Yes - the plugin stack is IRAM.
22:47:09linuxstb_quiksilver: What did you try, and what was the problem?
22:48:52quiksilveri have tried encoding with vlc media player and tried playing it on my h10 but it gave me an error ( i can run elephant dreams so its the encoding of the video that went wrong
22:49:25linuxstb_What error?
22:49:28quiksilveri tried the cmd procces and teh VLC-transcode.bat procces
22:50:02quiksilverjust a second i will check now
22:50:10 Join chriscool9 [0] (i=acbd24aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
22:50:35 Quit linuxstb_ ("CGI:IRC")
22:50:37chriscool9Hi, would someone please help me?!
22:50:45dionoeai doubt it
22:50:51quiksilverwell ok it buffers and then it just oges back to the browser(menu)
22:50:53dionoeaunless you state what you need help with of course :)
22:52:13chriscool9Ok well ill say the problem anyway. Im using the iPodcolor Plus theme but the progress bar is at the top, ive been doing some research and is this the patch i need? If so how do i install it?! ProgressBar-Y.coord.patch
22:53:31chriscool9Great broken
22:53:50 Nick linuxstb__ is now known as linuxstb (
22:54:24dionoeachriscool9: it's not broken
22:54:43chriscool9Wow soz for all the test, it takes ages for messages to appear on my screen
22:54:43linuxstbquiksilver: I'm not sure what to suggest.. I don't use vlc myself.
22:54:44dionoeayou have to give people time to read what you asked ...
22:54:52quiksilverlinuxstb: i think i messed up on the cmd cuz i dont think i understood exactly waat i need to replace with actual stuff
22:55:10linuxstbquiksilver: Can you paste the actual command you typed here?
22:55:10quiksilverlinuxstb: ok wat do u use
22:55:26quiksilverallright give me a couple of minutes
22:55:33quiksilverand i will paste it in
22:55:36linuxstbI use mpeg2enc (under Linux).
22:55:40chriscool9Ok well hi dionea, do you knowwhat i need to do to solve my problem?
22:55:43 Quit Lear ("Chatzilla 0.9.74 [Firefox]")
22:56:20linuxstbchriscool9: You either need to use an unofficial version of Rockbox with that patch already applied, or apply the patch to the Rockbox source code yourself, and compile your own version.
22:56:24quiksilvero ok i have xp so i doubt it will work the same...
22:56:59dionoeachriscool9: i don't :(
22:57:20 Quit merbanan (Remote closed the connection)
22:57:21dionoeachriscool9: but one of the other 127 people here might
22:57:32mirak_linuxstb: sdram really kills us ...
22:57:41sharpedionoea: you mean 126. haha. :)
22:57:44linuxstbNo, it kills you... I'm happy on my ipod.
22:57:52dionoeasharpe: i wasn't sure about the number of bots :)
22:57:57sharpeah, true.
22:57:57dionoeaso i counted those as people :)
22:58:06mirak_linuxstb: how much fps ?
22:58:10mirak_do you get
22:58:52chriscool9Ok thanks anyway dionea. Also linuxstb thanks alot for the reply, im using drippydougnts 'Halfway' build. I tried norsebuns build but hated it.
22:59:09linuxstbmirak_: I forget now, I haven't had a working mpegplayer for a few weeks...
22:59:14chriscool9So there is no way of applying the patch in the build im using now?
22:59:27sharpechriscool9: no, patches are applied to the source code.
22:59:53sharpeunless you wish to recompile it :)
23:01:59mirak_it would be intersting to know how embeded devices implementing mpeg2 deals with the iram. maybe there is some trick to work only on parts on small parts of the image.
23:02:20quiksilverlinuxstb: Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
23:02:20quiksilver(C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.
23:02:20quiksilverC:\Documents and Settings\alexandru>cd C:\Program Files\VideoLAN\VLC\
23:02:20DBUGEnqueued KICK quiksilver
23:02:20quiksilverC:\Program Files\VideoLAN\VLC>vlc <E:\Simpsons 16x20 - Home Away From Homer.avi>
23:02:20quiksilver −−sout=#transcode{vcodec=mp2v,vb=600,width=<128>,height=<128>}:es{access-video=
23:02:21***Alert Mode level 1
23:02:21quiksilverfile,mux-video=es,dst-video=<Home Away From Homer>.m2v}
23:02:23quiksilverThe system cannot find the file specified.
23:02:25quiksilverC:\Program Files\VideoLAN\VLC>
23:02:29quiksilvermy bad
23:03:03quiksilverC:\Program Files\VideoLAN\VLC>vlc <E:\Simpsons 16x20 - Home Away From Homer.avi>
23:03:03quiksilver −−sout=#transcode{vcodec=mp2v,vb=600,width=<128>,height=<128>}:es{access-video=
23:03:03quiksilverfile,mux-video=es,dst-video=<Home Away From Homer>.m2v}The system cannot find the file specified.
23:03:05 Quit dpassen1 ()
23:03:08linuxstbPlease don't paste that many lines....
23:03:15mirak_linuxstb: I haven't tried to put idct in iram yet ...
23:03:47quiksilverim sorry.... i pasted and it split it in many lines
23:04:01chriscool9Ok so thank you for replys, but im really new to this. Just to clarify there is no way of jsut copy and pasting this patch?
23:04:08linuxstbquiksilver: 1) If your filenames have spaces in them, surround them by quotes - "E:\Simpsons 16x20 - Home Away From Homer.avi" ; 2) I don't think you need the <> brackets - those were just to show you where to change things.
23:04:16sharpechriscool9: nope...
23:04:40quiksilverlinuxstb: thank you i will give it a shot
23:05:11linuxstbquiksilver: Is your LCD perfectly square? i.e. exactly the same width and height (in mm).
23:05:20quiksilveryes it is
23:05:58linuxstbThen you'll get nicely distorted video. For normal (4:3) video, 128x96 would look correct.
23:06:05 Join lukaswayne9 [0] (
23:06:30 Quit lee-qid (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:06:40quiksilverok thanks a lot
23:07:11chriscool9Right ok thanks guys, replys are much appreciated
23:08:05quiksilverlinuxstb: THANK YOU SO MUCH!!
23:11:31***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:12:15quiksilverlinuxstb: the thing now is i dunno where it saved it :/
23:12:21 Quit chriscool9 ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
23:12:22***Alert Mode OFF
23:14:01 Quit BigMac (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:15:31 Join stripwax [0] (
23:15:58linuxstbquiksilver: Is it not in C:\Program Files\VideoLAN\VLC ?
23:17:24quiksilverhmm 1 sec there is a file in here that is called "stream-0-mpga" (not what i named the file but i will give it a shot on my h10) will get back to u in a bit...
23:17:41dionoeathat'll be the audio part
23:17:44dionoeanot the video
23:17:53dionoeampga like mpeg audio
23:18:11dionoeaquiksilver: did you use the .bat file ?
23:18:47quiksilverno i did not
23:19:02linuxstbmirak_: The 176x96 video is playing at around 40fps on my ipod Photo. The 224x176 one is around 20fps.
23:19:17dionoeaquiksilver: you're doing it from cmd.exe ?
23:19:29SeymourGlasslinuxstb: its really bad
23:19:37quiksilveryes i am
23:19:43linuxstbSeymourGlass: What's really bad?
23:20:04SeymourGlassi doubt that any other os would be able to compete with apple os right now in video department
23:20:17SeymourGlassafter the last update its a really powerful video device
23:20:30linuxstbYes, the 5g's dedicated video processor helps a little...
23:20:50dionoeaquiksilver: you're in the VLC install directory ?
23:21:03linuxstbmpegplayer is for devices without dedicated video chips.
23:21:08SeymourGlasslinuxstb: can u believe it can do 720x400 @ 24fps H264 AVC @ 2mbit/s and its not the limit
23:21:10quiksilverdionoea; yes i am
23:21:40dionoeado you get any messages in the messages window in VLC when launching it ?
23:21:49dionoea(/me hates windows for VLC debugging)
23:22:10dionoeayou need to open the messages window. Close VLC. And then relaunch your command line to get all the debug i think
23:22:39 Join _FireFly_ [0] (
23:22:55quiksilverumm i dont follow u...
23:23:15dionoeaok, i'll do it again then :)
23:23:16quiksilveri kinda got confused when u asked about the messages..
23:23:28dionoeayou open the messages window in View->Messages
23:23:32 Join dan_a [0] (n=dan-mirc@
23:23:32linuxstbI would have expected there to be better MPEG encoders than VLC available to Windows users... Are there no other free encoders?
23:23:53dionoealinuxstb: i'd say that there must be hundreds :)
23:24:00SeymourGlassyeah, there are alot
23:24:08quiksilverim in the messages
23:24:09linuxstbSo why is everyone struggling with the VLC command-line?
23:24:14dionoeaquiksilver: you close the main vlc controler
23:24:16SeymourGlassIve done some heavy dvd authoring
23:24:22mirak_linuxstb: my 220*176 is at 13-14 fps
23:24:29dionoealinuxstb: because you can't output the raw mpeg2 video thing with the interface
23:24:40linuxstbThen don't - just demux it afterwards.
23:24:54dionoeaand the GUI basically sucks when you're doing streaming
23:24:54quiksilverdionoea: it closed teh messages window as well
23:25:12dionoeaquiksilver: now if you re-launch VLC it should open the messages window automatically.
23:25:22dionoeaso you can launch the command line and get all the debug in the window
23:25:58quiksilverdionoea: ok so now i retype the command and see where it goes by looking at the messages?
23:26:07dionoeaand look for red lines
23:26:15quiksilverwill do
23:26:51dionoealinuxstb: i don't know if the ffmpeg command line tool works on windows ... but you'd end up with the same issues as VLC in the end i guess
23:27:53dionoeaand if you want to do stuff like burn subs in the movie, read almost any kind of codecs as input, etc. i guess that it doesn't leave that many choices
23:28:06linuxstbSeymourGlass: Going back to the ipod 5g's video capabilities - what's the point in being able to decode 720x400? The LCD is only 320x240, and if I want to watch videos on my TV, I just use an xbox which can play any video format I throw at it.
23:28:16linuxstbdionoea: I'm thinking more about closed-source encoders.
23:28:27SeymourGlasslinuxstb: xbox is heavier, larger
23:28:34dionoeawell closed source stuff will have limitations on inputs
23:28:37linuxstbI don't carry it around with me...
23:28:46toadis there any way to use the ipod video font (myriad pro) in rockbox?
23:28:49dionoeamost likely no subs support
23:28:52SeymourGlasslinuxstb: well its certainly not bad
23:28:57 Quit CriamosAndy ("( :: NoNameScript 4.03 :: )")
23:28:58stripwaxSame way you don't carry your tv around with you
23:29:13SeymourGlassu can do dvd rips which are ipod compatible and also look great on computer
23:29:18stripwaxtoad - if you can find it in bdf format, then yes!
23:29:39toadstripwax: is the process for converting otf to bdf complicated?
23:29:50dionoeamaybe you could try using handbrake
23:30:03stripwaxtoad: I have absolutely no idea.
23:30:15dionoeaquiksilver: any luck ?
23:30:40SeymourGlasslinuxstb: actually i prefer encode larger resolutioni than 320x240 anyway
23:30:41stripwaxtoad - maybe try googling for a font convertor?
23:30:43quiksilverdionoea: yes im working on it give me a second im a bit slow :D
23:30:48dionoeahehe, ok :)
23:30:54SeymourGlassit looks better if u disable the widesceen feature in options
23:30:54mirak_linuxstb: there is a screenbuffer in iram ?
23:31:01stripwaxhey, there's a program called "otf2bdf" .. :-)
23:31:09linuxstbSeymourGlass: Now if the ipod had an hdmi output and could play my hi-def 1440x1080i MPEG-4 AVC streams, I would be interested...
23:31:24stripwaxtoad - this could be a useful link for you -
23:31:25linuxstbmirak_: No, it's too big on the colour targets for IRAM.
23:31:39SeymourGlasslinuxstb: i guess its not far ahead
23:31:51stripwaxlinuxstb - ah, is that why we need to read pixels back to do transparency?
23:32:04toadI'll give it a try, thanks
23:32:21SeymourGlassI wonder what exactly are the capabilities of current ipod hardware
23:32:32SeymourGlassmaybe it can do 720p
23:32:33stripwaxlinuxstb - (by we I guess I mean hotdog)
23:33:34linuxstbstripwax: I'm not sure what you mean.
23:33:51dionoeathe next (non bugfix) VLC release will have something called streaming profiles which should make it really easy to do the transcoding process using the GUI with no/limited knowledge of what actually goes on. But that's not ready yet
23:34:21linuxstbstripwax: We have a framebuffer in RAM - just not in the fast IRAM.
23:34:39linuxstbWhat about front-ends to ffmpeg?
23:35:31stripwaxlinuxstb - ah ok. i'm probably just an idiot misremembering some code in the rockbox driver that I thought I also saw in hotdog. lemme see if i can find what I'm thinking of
23:35:37dionoeathose should work too (you loose the ability to burn subs in the movie ... that'd be alright i guess)
23:38:46mirak_linuxstb: ipods sucks
23:38:57stripwaxmirak_ - huh??
23:39:53 Join Angry [0] (i=5438af55@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
23:39:59 Quit Angry (Client Quit)
23:45:34 Quit freqmod (Remote closed the connection)
23:46:07stripwaxmore plugins should use lcd_update_rect rather than lcd_update, I reckon. how does WPS currently know when to update just a part of the lcd versus the whole thing?
23:46:30quiksilverdionoea:yes i have done it but i dont understand teh messages ...
23:46:43dionoeaquiksilver: paste them on, i'll have a look
23:47:30CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
23:47:30*petur suspects the build server hangs again
23:47:51*Bagder crawls out from the shadows
23:48:06dionoeaquicksilver: ffmpeg warning: MPEG1/2 does not support 8000000/333711 fps
23:48:12quiksilverdionoea:i pasted it
23:48:21dionoeathat's mentioned on the wiki page for MpegPlayer i think
23:48:38dionoeatry adding ,fps=25 in #transcode{ }
23:49:06linuxstbOr 24000/1001 to be more accurate?
23:49:08toadwell I've converted myriad to bdf but it looks kind of bad
23:49:14toadthe 'r' is off the baseline for example
23:49:18toader, to fnt
23:49:57*linuxstb is looking forward to the inevitable audio/video sync issues...
23:50:48 Join matsl [0] (
23:50:57linuxstbDoes ffmpeg do accurate fps conversion?
23:51:03SeymourGlassno it doesn't
23:51:11SeymourGlassit can't do 23.978 properly
23:51:18SeymourGlassyou get asynced movies
23:51:48*linuxstb is happy with PAL's nice and sensible 25fps
23:51:49 Join tucoz [0] (i=50ca6307@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
23:51:57 Quit lightyear (Remote closed the connection)
23:52:02SeymourGlassyes, pal rocks
23:52:10SeymourGlasshas no interlacing problems
23:52:20SeymourGlassntsc is pain in the ass
23:52:49tucozHi. Read your discussion on video encoding in windows, and the gui4ffmpeg looks ok.
23:52:50quiksilverdionoea: should i paste the messages again?
23:52:56dionoeadidn't it work ?
23:53:19quiksilvertheres still a red line
23:53:51quiksilverbut i see the file
23:54:03quiksilverso i will test it and tell u if i need more help :P
23:54:47dionoeai'm sure that we can disable that mpeg2 encoding fps check somehow
23:57:33 Part stripwax
23:57:51 Quit tucoz ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
23:57:57quiksilverdionoea: THANKS IT WORKED!!1
23:58:03dionoeayou're welcome
23:58:14quiksilverdionoea: pretty good quality too
23:58:40dionoeapretty bad compared to HD h264 ... but ok for the ipod i guess :)

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