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#rockbox log for 2006-10-26

00:00:07amiconnI use make internal functions instead of @echo (which spawns a whole subshell just fo r'echo')
00:01:21preglowi doubt linux is that slow in doing that
00:01:37amiconnI'll check that next
00:01:41preglowsince it's pretty much designed for being fast with stuff like that
00:01:45preglowmost unices are
00:02:03amiconnYeah, but using internal functions surely won't hurt
00:03:49 Quit Febs ("CGI:IRC")
00:04:11jhMikeSwhich h300 functions are using the pcf50606?
00:04:42amiconnPretty much the same as on X5, except charging
00:06:18jhMikeSI'm moving things around to the target tree so I guess if they don't have buttons it's my fault. :P
00:06:19 Join secleinteer [0] (n=scl@adsl-70-237-222-3.dsl.stlsmo.sbcglobal.net)
00:06:41preglowanyone done any new battery benches on x5 now?
00:07:13jhMikeSpreglow: How could they be done with them already? :D
00:07:52 Join lini [0] (i=pugsley@62.204.144.237)
00:08:00 Join arkascha [0] (n=arkascha@xdsl-195-14-206-146.netcologne.de)
00:08:31 Part arkascha ("Konversation terminated!")
00:08:37amiconnAround 8% speedup on linux (with some measuring uncertainty - build just the plugins takes ~3.5 seconds on my amd64)
00:09:10 Join TerrorByte [0] (i=4889bb7a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/session)
00:09:22TerrorByteHey, guys.
00:09:24TerrorByteQuestion.
00:09:32TerrorByteYou know for RockDoom..
00:09:43TerrorByteAll the keys can be fit on the buttons on my H10.... except strafing..
00:10:02TerrorByteCan it be done so that pressing left and right while HOLDING DOWN the use key allows strafing?
00:10:11TerrorByteInstead of turning.
00:10:28TerrorByteSo..... anyone?
00:10:55psiborgdo it yourself? ;)
00:11:03TerrorByteI have no idea how? ;)
00:11:10TerrorByteBut it is possible right?
00:11:28TerrorByteAnd not too hard??? :)
00:11:36psiborgi'd like to have strafing on my nano as well..
00:11:42TerrorByte:)
00:11:47TerrorByteYes! Support.
00:11:50TerrorByteStrafing kicks ass.
00:11:57TerrorByteWithout strafing, can't dodge projectiles.
00:12:01TerrorByteTsk tsk tsk....
00:12:03psiborgit's probably possible, i can't imagine the strafing being ripped out for any reason..
00:12:26TerrorByteIs it possible though to recognize that one key is held down and another is pressed at the same time?
00:12:34TerrorByteAnd do some action based on that?
00:13:11Paul_the_NerdTerrorByte: It depends on the hardware. On different players they may or may not be able to detect two keys at once (sometimes some keys can and some keys can't even)
00:13:28TerrorByteYeah that's exactly what I was thinking Paul.
00:13:29tucozamiconn, nice :)
00:13:38TerrorByteIs there any way to test that for the H10?
00:14:05Paul_the_NerdTerrorByte: Easy, code a plugin that shows what key is being pressed, and have it try to detect multiple keys at once.
00:14:23TerrorByteWait, there's something like that in the Debug menu.
00:14:35Paul_the_NerdThere is.
00:14:47TerrorByteI/O Ports.
00:14:50tucozamiconn, according to the manual, the 'Browse firmwares' option in the Manage settings menu is deprecated. Couldn't this be removed and free a few bytes?
00:15:10amiconnWhy is it deprecated?
00:15:16tucozI don't know
00:15:19amiconnAfaik it's not
00:15:22TerrorByteOkay, it does recognize keys being pressed.
00:15:24tucozit just says that
00:15:31Paul_the_NerdIt seems to me to be a silly option.
00:15:34TerrorByteNothing pressed, it reads: FF
00:15:35*amiconn actually uses it occasionally
00:15:35tucozmaybe it is for SWCODEC
00:15:43TerrorByteLeft pressed, it reads: 7F
00:15:44Paul_the_NerdDoes there really need to be a menu entry for it, rather than someone just creating a /firmwares/ folder?
00:15:57TerrorByteLeft and Right pressed, it reads: 3F
00:15:59TerrorByteYes!
00:16:04TerrorByteIt's possible.
00:16:08Paul_the_NerdTerrorByte: And Right pressed?
00:16:09TerrorByteBut I have no idea what to do now.
00:16:16tucozhttp://download.rockbox.org/manual/rockbox-h100/rockbox-buildch9.html#x12-1970009.3.3
00:16:20TerrorByteRight pressed, it reads: BF
00:16:22TerrorByteIt's different.
00:16:32tucozThis is a legacy item it says
00:16:51preglowsave bytes!
00:16:53TerrorByteSo, I'm sure it can be done.
00:16:53TerrorByteBut I have NO idea how.
00:17:25Paul_the_NerdTerrorByte: So file a proper feature request, or go learn C.
00:17:35TerrorByteI know very little C.
00:17:40TerrorByteShould I just file a request?
00:17:51TerrorBytePaul, do you have the skills to do this?
00:17:53*Paul_the_Nerd reads the line he just wrote, but doesn't see any ambiguity.
00:18:05Paul_the_NerdYes I do, no I won't. At least not right now.
00:18:18z0derandom album works :D (rememeber to generate list and turn of repeat)
00:18:20TerrorByteI see.
00:18:21TerrorByteHow about now?
00:18:22z0de:D
00:18:27TerrorByteJust kidding. :)
00:18:39preglowwhat's the point of browse firmwares anyway?
00:18:39TerrorByteSince you know how to do this, how long do you think something like this would take?
00:18:44TerrorByteFor you to get done.
00:18:45TerrorByte:)
00:19:39Paul_the_NerdTerrorByte: Honestly, if I felt like doing it, assuming the input code in Doom hasn't really changed since last time I tinkered with it, I imagine a willing person could get it done in less than 5 minutes. Maybe 20 if things have changed enough to require a little tinkering.
00:20:00TerrorByteWow.
00:20:06TerrorByteWait, this is all done in C right?
00:20:19Paul_the_NerdYeah
00:20:20TerrorByteWell I'll file a request.
00:20:32TerrorByteBut if you can find the time, I'd appreciate it if you did it. :)
00:20:51Paul_the_NerdIn all honesty, I'm A) Too Lazy and B) Not interested in Doom.
00:20:57BigMacI take it rockbox on the 5g does not have OFR support
00:21:01TerrorByteAlright then.
00:21:06TerrorByteI'll file a request.
00:21:08z0deso when will the alarm feature be put on the x5, then ill have all i need/
00:21:15Paul_the_NerdI did some work to help get Doom running on the PortalPlayer targets a long time ago, and that's the last I touched it at all
00:21:21Paul_the_NerdBigMac: OFR?
00:21:43BigMacOptimFrog
00:21:54BigMaccomparable sounds quality to flac
00:22:00BigMacmuch smaller file size
00:22:04BigMacsimilar to ape
00:22:18z0de!rules
00:22:19TerrorByteWait Paul
00:22:23TerrorByteIf I were to do this myself, or if you were...
00:22:31TerrorByteWould you be changing the .rock file for RockDoom?
00:22:36z0deare we allowed to talk about p2p here?
00:22:37TerrorByteIs that where the settings are stored?
00:22:40TerrorByteLOL z0de.
00:22:45TerrorByteCould tell from the.
00:22:47TerrorByte!rules
00:22:48TerrorByte:)
00:22:52tucozsomeone should update this section. http://download.rockbox.org/manual/rockbox-recorder/rockbox-buildch9.html#x12-2110009.5
00:22:58z0dei tried to check :P
00:23:02TerrorByteHeh.
00:23:04tucozRockbox in flash on the archos
00:23:08z0deare we/
00:23:09z0de?
00:23:13Paul_the_NerdTerrorByte: You'd change the .c files and recompile, so you'd get a different .rock
00:23:15TerrorByteWhy are you in Rockbox if you're here for P2P?
00:23:16Genre9mp3BigMac: OptimFROG is even more heavy than APE!
00:23:19TerrorByteI see.
00:23:25TerrorByteAnd where are the .c files?
00:23:32TerrorByteIncluded?
00:23:40Paul_the_Nerdz0de: We respect copyright very strongly here. That should say enough in most cases.
00:23:42TerrorByteAnd how the hell would I compile it as a .rock file?
00:23:43Paul_the_NerdTerrorByte: The source code archive.
00:23:49z0deunderstood.
00:23:55Paul_the_NerdTerrorByte: And read the SimpleGuideToCompiling wiki page.
00:24:12jhMikeSwhat is zxbox and how do you use it? It's configured as a viewer so what does it view?
00:24:24TerrorByteLinks?
00:24:32TerrorByteThat's the last question I'm asking.
00:24:33tucozjhMikeS, play a game file.
00:24:34TerrorByte:)
00:24:41tucozjhMikeS, or tape file
00:25:27Genre9mp3jhMikeS: ZX Spectrum Emulator
00:25:34Paul_the_NerdTerrorByte: Giving you the title of a wiki page like that should be more than enough for you to get to the page. :-P You should learn to navigate the wiki if it's not enough for you
00:25:37*Paul_the_Nerd has to go now.
00:25:42 Nick Paul_the_Nerd is now known as Paul_the_Away (n=Llorean@cpe-70-112-165-230.austin.res.rr.com)
00:26:00TerrorByteLOL @ Paul.
00:26:01TerrorByteThanks.
00:26:19tucozjhMikeS, just get some games here. http://www.worldofspectrum.org/games/index.html and read http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/PluginZXBox
00:26:25jhMikeStucoz: thanks
00:27:42tucozbye
00:27:42 Quit TerrorByte ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
00:27:44 Join midkay [0] (n=midkay@rockbox/developer/midkay)
00:27:44 Part tucoz ("Leaving")
00:27:53 Join webguest02 [0] (i=47cddb39@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/session)
00:28:09webguest02why arent the 5.5 ipods supported?
00:28:43 Quit matsl_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:28:45webguest02did they change hardware?
00:28:47 Join Noah0504 [0] (n=noah@66.141.90.76)
00:28:52 Join matsl_ [0] (n=matsl@1-1-4-2a.mal.sth.bostream.se)
00:29:31 Quit Rondom ("Ex-Chat")
00:31:26 Quit ender` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:31:48 Join ender` [0] (i=null@84.52.165.220)
00:32:23 Join k0rnz [0] (n=k0rnz@207-237-65-113.c3-0.avec-ubr12.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com)
00:32:30k0rnzhello fellow rockboxers
00:32:38k0rnzespecially Ipod Nano rockboxers
00:32:47k0rnzI'm here to rockbox with you all fellow rockboxers
00:33:50Genre9mp3k0rnz: nice to hear... welcome then! :)
00:34:02z0deipod sucks :P
00:34:06k0rnzthanks for the red carpet welcome dude
00:34:07Genre9mp3haha
00:34:13k0rnzz0de: its not why we bought it
00:34:28k0rnzmost ipod owners didnt get it for the features its sorta like a status symbol
00:34:35k0rnzit adds to the bulge in our pants
00:34:41k0rnzmakes us look more sexier and leaner
00:34:45k0rnzyou get the idea
00:34:48z0dewell have fun being a sheep.
00:34:58z0debut i know what you mean.
00:35:01hcsI got it because it was easy to get, and I got mine cheap-ish.
00:35:02Genre9mp3For me iPod is a status symbol to avoid! :P
00:35:11z0deme too Genre9mp3
00:35:19webguest02k0mz: i got ipod caue it was the cheapest :)
00:35:36k0rnzwell thats not why we true ipodders get ours
00:35:43k0rnzmine has gotten me laid alot of times
00:36:11Genre9mp3k0rnz: The iPod did that???
00:36:19z0deits a addon
00:36:25webguest02ewww i wouldnt want to sleep with anyone that wants to sleep with me for the ipod
00:36:27k0rnzlol!
00:36:29webguest02rockbox maybe
00:37:01k0rnzits a cool icebreaker thing when girls see your ipod running a different OS
00:37:22Genre9mp3k0rnz: since when?
00:37:22webguest02bubbles is a better icebreaker
00:37:24Kasperle"eeeew, a geek, everybody hide"
00:37:27Kasperle;)
00:37:38k0rnzespecially the geeky looking girls with glasses that need to be soiled.
00:37:42webguest02the penguin is so cute
00:37:52k0rnzyeah sorta like that and more
00:38:21webguest02the the girl stole my ipod after the one night stand
00:38:52webguest02but i didnt care cause it was a 4g... so i justed claimed it on the travel insurance and got a 5g
00:38:57k0rnzdude, she probably wanted another nite thats why she stole it so you could find her
00:39:17z0deor he was bad and it was compensation.
00:39:17k0rnznowadays a girl stealing something from you after a one nite stand is like a girl leaving her number before she leaves
00:39:25k0rnzlol compensation
00:39:27webguest02well too bad im quite happy with my 5g
00:39:30z0deheh
00:39:49k0rnzgirls love my Nano because it can fit into "tight" spaces
00:40:02webguest02she can deal with all the bugs in 4g now
00:40:05k0rnzif you know what I mean *cough*!
00:40:25webguest02so can my 30gb 5g :p
00:40:41webguest02and it can show pictures in tight spots too after you fit them there
00:40:47k0rnzi got a 30Gb 5G but its with my default girlfriend right now
00:40:47Noah0504Huh, I never thought I would hear someone bragging about their "Nano." What tight places does it fit in, their ear?
00:40:49Noah0504haha
00:41:08k0rnzoh you know the usual tight fitting places
00:41:24webguest02like nostrils and such
00:41:24Noah0504Sure, sure.
00:41:28k0rnzthe Nano is made of a space age type of plastic that is self-lubing too so you know
00:41:52k0rnzcutting edge technology that is multipurpose
00:42:03webguest02it seems a little small though
00:42:40k0rnzits not the size that matters my friend
00:42:46jhMikeShrm
00:42:47k0rnzits the quality of the workmanship
00:42:58webguest02so youve been given that line?
00:43:03k0rnzand the Nano has the word "Quality" written all over it
00:43:16k0rnzI invented it
00:43:44webguest02http://www.misterpoll.com/results.mpl?id=2167598439
00:43:51k0rnzi'm also a member of a famous penis enlargement forum but i cant post there or read the private areas because they closed off new membership signups at 64k members
00:43:54webguest02according to 50% of women it does
00:44:12k0rnzwell i've never met that 50%, I've only been with the other 50%
00:44:27amiconnHmm, what's the purpose of putting shell commands in parentheses?
00:44:31amiconnLike this:
00:44:38webguest02well 100% of women lie
00:44:39jhMikeSwomen usually like to spare feelings
00:44:42amiconn(echo "Blah" ; blah )
00:44:47k0rnzmost of those polls are skewed and biased because they dont take into account the male transvestites that pose as women and enter those polls
00:44:58amiconnWhat's the difference between this and just:
00:45:06amiconnecho "Blah"; blah
00:45:09amiconn?
00:45:14k0rnzwell i'm happy with my monstererous veiner 5.5 incher
00:45:33jhMikeSlike I said
00:45:36k0rnzi'm almost at 6 but i keep getting lazy with my daily ritual of hanging weights off of my foreskin, etc
00:46:00webguest02is there a os project like rockbox for blackberrys?
00:46:13k0rnzthere might be one
00:46:34k0rnzi wish Apple would design a cellphone around the Ipod Nano design
00:46:56webguest02my friend has an old 7750 that he wants to do something useful with
00:46:58k0rnzin 2 to 3 years cell phones can be implanted behind your ear
00:47:11webguest02havent found any opensource ports
00:47:14webguest02for blackberry
00:47:32k0rnzi wonder why no one has taken up a project like that
00:47:45webguest02mayeb proprietary issues
00:47:47k0rnzwith the popularity of the blackberry it seems like it would be a cool project
00:47:51webguest02yep
00:48:01k0rnzwell that didnt stop IPL developers
00:48:07webguest02nope
00:48:21k0rnzand Apple has been known to bully anyone even the small potatoes
00:48:37webguest02but it did stop 5.5g developers apparently
00:48:46webguest02if it is going to be not supported
00:49:04z0deid say the blackberry is too mainstream but the ipod has rockbox.
00:49:04k0rnzwell IPL is nice and cool, but if you havent tried rockbox you should
00:49:11k0rnzoh wait i'm in #rockbox
00:49:28webguest02i havent tried IPL yet
00:49:34webguest02just rockbox
00:49:39Noah0504Eh, I'm not a big fan of IPL.
00:49:43k0rnzi have it is cool but once you try rockbox you will hate IPL
00:50:01 Join anrdewmel [0] (n=andrewme@220-253-101-18.TAS.netspace.net.au)
00:50:07webguest02rockbox seems user friendly and better for ipod interface and apabilities
00:50:32webguest02though i must say doing rockboy is really difficult on ipod
00:50:34amiconnanyone?
00:50:38anrdewmelwondering if somebody can tell me what | means in C?
00:50:59k0rnzso far that seems to be the main selling point for poeple switching over to rockbox from ipl
00:51:03jhMikeS"Blah"
00:51:13k0rnzis it some sort of switch?
00:51:20k0rnza "NOT" switch?
00:51:26Noah0504I have a quick question about Tag Caching in Rockbox. Does it take disc number into account? Will it list disc one before disc two?
00:51:30k0rnzit has been years since I spoke in C
00:51:35Noah0504...I hope that made sense.
00:51:37webguest02i would still like to see a pdf viewer for rockbox
00:51:56k0rnzthat would be awesome but probably taxing on the memory of the device
00:52:19webguest02i dont know...mine can open up 17MB jpegs with no problem
00:52:51k0rnzwell in that case it wont probably be an issue
00:52:52webguest02take about 10 seconds to load but it loads
00:52:59jhMikeSamiconn: I don't know. Single statement?
00:53:15amiconnapps/Makefile does this for 2 targets
00:53:18jhMikeSIn DOS bats it works that way
00:53:48webguest02and it the ipod video was designed to play video i would think there would be enough memory to open a pdf
00:53:50jhMikeSSomewhat like {}
00:54:55anrdewmelamicon, is | a not ?
00:55:50k0rnzwell i'm gonna load rockbox now on my restored nano. gonna use a cool theme and hope it gets me laid a couple times this holiday season bye for now
00:55:53 Quit k0rnz ()
00:55:56 Quit matsl_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:57:10webguest02laid with the reindeer?
00:57:26 Quit ender` (" My computer NEVER cras")
00:59:24 Join TerrorByte [0] (i=4889bb7a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/session)
00:59:34preglowrockbox always gets you laid
00:59:36preglowit's that cool it is
00:59:47TerrorByteWhaaaa!?
00:59:51TerrorByteFirst thing I see when I come here.
00:59:57TerrorByte"rockbox always gets you laid"
00:59:58z0dewhat theme would you reccomend for the x5
01:00
01:00:04preglowrockbox is 100% about getting chicks
01:00:09TerrorByteLOL.
01:00:12TerrorByteTrue true... ;)
01:00:19z0deisn't everything?
01:00:27z0deidirect or otherwise
01:00:32z0dein*
01:00:47preglowhaha
01:00:49preglowi wouldn't say so, no
01:00:51TerrorByteRight.....
01:00:52preglowbut rockbox surely is
01:01:20TerrorByteSurely.
01:02:55TerrorByteAnyone actually play RockDoom?
01:02:56anrdewmelwondering if anybody can tell me what the | in this line means?
01:02:57anrdewmelcase METRONOME_VOL_DOWN | BUTTON_REPEAT:
01:03:11preglowanrdewmel: it's an or operation
01:03:20preglowbitwise or
01:03:20 Quit |AhIoRoS| (Remote closed the connection)
01:03:23 Quit mirak (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer))
01:05:28TerrorByteAnyone actually play RockDoom here?
01:06:03anrdewmelcan you please help me to understand why it is in this bit
01:06:04anrdewmelcase MENU_BUTTON_DOWN:
01:06:04anrdewmel case MENU_BUTTON_DOWN | BUTTON_REPEAT:
01:06:09anrdewmeland not just have the first line?
01:06:38jhMikeSthey're two different case values
01:06:38 Quit TerrorByte ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
01:07:03jhMikeSMENU_BUTTON_DOWN != MENU_BUTTON_DOWN | BUTTON_REPEAT
01:08:23anrdewmelthere is a switch (button) statement, to determine what to do with a button push. Most (but not all) of the case statements have this line, and IIRC the colon after the first indicates some kind of subservience of the second line to the first?
01:08:54jhMikeSno. the case pertains to the innermost enclosing switch statement
01:14:30 Quit PaulJam (".")
01:15:52 Join chendo_ [0] (n=chendo@203-206-13-212.dyn.iinet.net.au)
01:21:00preglowthe dither noise rockbox uses is really crappy, sounds like
01:21:24 Join k0rnz [0] (n=k0rnz@207-237-65-113.c3-0.avec-ubr12.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com)
01:21:48k0rnzanyone got time to show me a quick and dirty way of installing themes to rockbox on a Ipod Nano?
01:22:01BigMacMpc support in rockbox?
01:23:14preglowBigMac: what about it?
01:24:28preglowfg
01:26:39 Quit Id2ndR ("Parti")
01:26:43BigMacwoops
01:26:53BigMacIs there MPC support in rockbox
01:27:05preglowsure
01:27:07preglowit's nice too
01:27:14preglowvery fast
01:27:18BigMacNot much skippage?
01:27:21preglownot any
01:27:23BigMachmm
01:27:27preglowi don't think it skips even on 3g ipods
01:27:34BigMacsoo ogg is a bad idea heh?
01:27:39preglowdepends what player you have
01:27:46BigMac5g
01:27:50preglowthen ogg works fine
01:27:54BigMacI know
01:28:07 Quit k0rnz ()
01:28:13BigMacbut MPC is supposed to have the highest quality of all lossy
01:28:18preglownah
01:28:23preglowdepends on target bitrate
01:28:37preglowmpc is nice at bitrates around 160 kbps and up
01:28:39psiborgwhat does mpc stand for?
01:28:41preglowmusepack
01:28:47psiborgah :)
01:28:59BigMacso ogg q7 should be fine
01:29:03 Quit chendo (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:29:12preglowBigMac: q7 sounds like overkill to me
01:29:13*psiborg never fiddles around much with other formats than mp3 and ogg
01:29:18preglowi always use q5 and seldom hear artifacts
01:29:28BigMacI listened to it on my computer and I barely could tell the difference between flac and it
01:29:36BigMacI'm fine with overkill
01:29:47BigMacI had 5 gigs space on my 30 g
01:29:56BigMacwith near 500 flac tracks
01:30:07markunwhy not stick with flac then?
01:30:32psiborgwhat's the size difference?
01:30:40BigMacBecause I want the room for more songs when an album is available I want
01:30:49BigMach/o i'll check
01:33:19BigMackorn-beg for me-6338 ogg-28593 flac
01:33:23BigMacboth in kb
01:33:33BigMacbgi difference
01:33:46BigMacand little to no audible sound difference
01:34:33psiborgthat's pretty big indeed
01:35:56BigMacyup
01:35:57 Quit MarcoPolo ("Bye !")
01:36:00BigMaclol
01:36:10BigMacas of now my headphones consist of
01:36:19BigMac1 of the 2 ipod earbuds
01:36:39BigMacthat was broken into several pieces and super glued back together
01:37:13preglowdamn, that's even more posh than the ipod buds i use
01:37:15 Nick Paul_the_Away is now known as Paul_the_Nerd (n=Llorean@cpe-70-112-165-230.austin.res.rr.com)
01:37:18BigMacBut in 2 weeks I will be buying the best headphones I can buy in the local music store for 150 dollars
01:37:41anrdewmelYou might be better ordering online?
01:37:53BigMacno cash
01:37:53jhMikeShow do you remove a file from the repository. cvs remove only seemed to do it locally.
01:38:00BigMacI get paid in gift cards
01:38:25amiconnjhMikeS: You need to commit the removal...
01:38:54jhMikeSI did a commit or do you need a switch for that?
01:39:30amiconnYou need to explicitly state the removed file in the commit
01:39:36jhMikeShmm
01:41:18z0dejhMikeS: any chance the alarm feature will be implemented for the x5?
01:41:47jhMikeSz0de: I don't know. LinusN was talking about doing it I think.
01:41:55z0dek
01:42:01amiconnHmm, the build speedup will be even higher than what my first test showed :)
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01:44:26preglowhaha, the current dithering really is messed up
01:44:35preglowneither noise shaping or dithering works as it should
01:44:49markunpreglow: what's wrong?
01:44:52SoapWhen I change to Mono playback, does crossfeed get disabled automaticly, or do I need to turn it off manually?
01:45:26jhMikeShmmm I tried that and when I did a cvs up on a different checkout I never got the "x is no longer in the repository." message
01:45:31preglowmarkun: write_samples currently dithers first one left sample, then one right, and so on
01:45:53preglowmarkun: that messes up the noise generation AND the noise shaping both since they assume a sequence of samples from the same channel
01:46:07markunah
01:46:20amiconnjhMikeS: Did your 'cvs remove' command really remove the file from cvs? In order for 'cvs remove' to work, the file must not be present anymore
01:46:51jhMikeSOk, I have to delete it from my hd first?
01:46:57amiconnyes
01:47:14amiconnFirst delete, then 'cvs remove', then commit
01:48:02amiconn'cvs remove' should have complained
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01:48:58jhMikeSno complaints
01:49:11jhMikeSShould've worked this time though.
01:52:06amiconnHmm. There's a minor problem with my info string change
01:53:04amiconnIf I put the info output macro in front of more than one command within the same rule, now all outputs appear before any command is executed
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01:54:40amiconn(for that rule of course)
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01:57:36jhMikeSIf anyone's with an H300 series would be so kind as to make sure their buttons still work I'd appreciate it.
01:57:50jhMikeSLatest CVS of course
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01:59:05amiconnWow, around 25% speedup...
01:59:17jhMikeSamiconn: on what? cygwin?
01:59:25amiconnyes
02:00
02:01:41SoapDoes crossfeed get disabled automaticly when you select mono playback? If not would this not be a good (decent) feature?
02:02:02preglowSoap: well, you need stereo for crossfeed to even make sense
02:02:10Soapright
02:02:22preglowSoap: so yes. it's not disabled per se, the setting is still enabled, but you won't get crossfeed
02:02:43Soapwell, you could just create an echo effect on a monural recording would you not?
02:03:04Soaps/could/would
02:03:11preglowSoap: well, sure, but crossfeed doesn't even involve an echo
02:03:45SoapIt involves a delayed right channel in left channel and vise versa, the "echo" effect on a monural recording I was talking about.,
02:04:15preglowit's more a flanger than an echo, but anyway, the entire point of crossfeed is to feed one channel to another
02:04:21preglowwith mono you can't do that
02:04:43SoapBut are the calculations still being done when you switch channel mode to mono in the menu?
02:04:45preglowso there's no point. just applying the delay to a mono signal makes no sense
02:05:03preglowSoap: yes, actually they are
02:05:11preglowhmm, and that might easily be considered a bug
02:05:17SoapWasting my precious CPU
02:05:17preglowi didn't think of that
02:05:58preglowbtw, where should i put the dither option? playback? sound settings? i say the last
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02:06:22preglowhmm, definitely sound settings
02:06:25SoapThat's all I was curious about. If my "audiobook" .cfg file should also turn off crossfeed when switching to mono
02:07:48preglowgod, the lang files are getting huge
02:08:58SoapShould I file an official bug on the mono/crossfeed thing or trust that it will be taken care of whenever such a silly thing has its day?
02:09:03jhMikeSdither option? sounds like a sound setting. *pun*
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02:09:36Terinjokescan i ask where the emergency disk mode is stored on the ipod?
02:10:00Paul_the_NerdThere's this little black chip inside...
02:10:30Paul_the_NerdAs far as I'm aware, the emergency disk mode is part of the program that's in flash memory, rather than on disk.
02:10:31jhMikeSovercooked potato chip iiow
02:11:35Terinjokesso if i go crazy and decide to erase the partition map from the ipod, will i be able to restore the ipod (via emergency disk mode)
02:12:01z0decould just not go crazy.
02:12:27AdamKilihey i borrowed a friends ipod and since i am thinking of getting an ipod myself, was wondering if i could try out rockbox on his ipod without affecting it in any way. i'm thinking of dual booting rockbox and Apple firmware and removing rockbox when i'm done and leaving the ipod unaffected. can this be done? it it easy? or risky?
02:12:45Terinjokescan be done, yes
02:13:05Terinjokesbut you should probably *ask* the owner first
02:13:17Paul_the_NerdAdamKili: Assuming you follow the directions carefully, easy to do, no/minimal risk (minimal being 'risk of user error')
02:13:33jhMikeS*L* it's better if you just get away with it :)
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02:14:19scorcheAdamKili: honestly though, if i found out that a friend did something like that to one of my devices without asking, i would be mad =)
02:14:46scorchejust ask him and tell him that there is no risk provided that you do it right
02:15:02AdamKiliand it leaves everything on the hard drive? it won't delete his songs? and ok ok i'll call him and ask first
02:15:08*jhMikeS probably wouldn't let anyone loose with his stuff because things like this happen
02:15:12scorcheand btw, it is dual-boot by default
02:15:26Terinjokesand if you do it wrong, the most harm that *should* happen is he'll have to move his music over again
02:15:41Paul_the_NerdTerinjokes: Even if you do it wrong, that shouldn't be necessary
02:15:57Terinjokestrust me, my nano has done it many a time
02:16:03scorcheunless you take a very large "creative liberty" with our instructions =)
02:16:07Paul_the_NerdAs long as you keep a copy of the bootpartition.bin that you create with the ipodpatcher -r N bootpartition.bin step as a backup, you should always be able to recover it.
02:16:47TerinjokesPaul_the_Nerd, not always, seems to be a bug over on macosx, were it won't restore
02:17:00Paul_the_NerdTerinjokes: Then that's a flaw in OSX.
02:17:10Paul_the_NerdThe iPod itself is not irrecoverable, you just don't have a computer that can do it.
02:17:38AdamKiliand i could back it up first. i think he only has about 15 gb on a 60 giger
02:17:53Terinjokesthe diskdump program freaks out when it see the bootpartition has already been changed, so it doesn't make the changes
02:18:27AdamKilii g2g back l8r
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02:20:57preglowanyone know how jdgordon's config patch is faring?
02:21:07JdGordonslowly
02:21:16preglowJdGordon: what's left?
02:21:28JdGordonive hit a wall.. and because of exams im not touching it for about 2.5 weeks
02:21:49jhMikeSforget exams...focus on important stuff! :D
02:22:05JdGordonyeah, i know :p
02:22:48preglowfocusing on exams never was my strong point
02:23:21JdGordonjhMikeS: h300 buttons still work
02:23:25Terinjokesprocrastinator?
02:23:41jhMikeSJdGordon: *whew* Thanks for checking :)
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02:25:07JdGordonpreglow: if you want to play with the patch i can upload the latest... if you can figure out why the audio thread is wacked it would be aweseom
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02:27:29jhMikeSIs there some way to get CVS to automatically clean up files no longer in the repository instead of just deleting the entire checkout or picking them off individually?
02:28:30JdGordoncvs up -dP should do that
02:28:39Paul_the_NerdIt does it for me.
02:28:41JdGordoni tihnk
02:28:48jhMikeSrrr...yeah, I just took a look and the last removed file is gone
02:29:08Paul_the_NerdIsn't P the one that tells it to prune? Or am I mistaken?
02:29:15jhMikeSnot the one I deleted manually but the one from another was automatically pruned
02:29:16*Paul_the_Nerd doesn't really know them at all.
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02:30:03JdGordonwhy does scrobbler.c have +x ?
02:30:04jhMikeSIt says "-P Prune empty directories"
02:33:31preglowJdGordon: no time now, need to go to bed
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03:16:59Nimdaewould it be possible to have a setting where when the backlight is off, it stops updating the display, in order to reduce unnecesary cpu usage? for example, why should it be updating in my pocket?
03:19:21Paul_the_NerdNimdae: Some of us use our players without backlight at all in many cases.
03:19:45anrdewmelthis would not be as good for screens like those of the 5g ipod which can easily be read in fair light when the backlight it off. i will often leave the backlight off, and still read the display
03:20:08Nimdaethat's why i said setting
03:20:22Nimdaeconfigurable
03:20:31Paul_the_NerdYou have to remember that there's a general opposition to bloating the settings without good cause.
03:20:44Paul_the_NerdFor example, it'd be nice to know how much battery life can actually be gained from this.
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03:21:24Nimdaei'd be willing to test it, if someone decides to consider it a worthy cause and make a patch
03:21:35Nimdaei understand the need to not bloat the settings, just a thought
03:22:00Paul_the_NerdI think someone tested not having the screen draw when the backlight was off, and it really didn't affect much, just because a lot of the drawing to the framebuffer still has to happen anyway.
03:22:23Paul_the_NerdVarious threads don't know the state of the screen when they update, so they *have* to keep updating anyway. Or so my very very very limited and possibly incorrect understanding lies.
03:23:22Nimdaewell, i didn't mean just drawing to the screen, but stop the calculations for it, if that was possible
03:23:37Nimdaebut like you, i have very very very limited and possibly incorrect understand ;)
03:23:41Nimdae*understanding
03:26:04amiconnStopping framebuffer updates completely with the display off will be nearly impossible.
03:26:22amiconnIf the light goes back on, the display content will be wrong
03:26:54amiconn...because rockbox often doesn't redraw the entire screen, but just some changed areas
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03:50:15Nimdaeyeah, that's how my phone works, when i activate the screen, i see old information for like half a second, then it does a full screen update
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04:07:12rigelwhats up with the h10 battery life
04:07:30rigeli <3 rockbox but wish it got better batt life...
04:07:54scorchenothing is "up" with it
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04:08:03scorcheit is a new port
04:08:22scorchethat is how it usually goes until the port matures more
04:09:05Paul_the_NerdOr in this case, until we figure out the portalplayer hardware
04:09:14Paul_the_NerdSince all the iPods pretty much suffer in the same way.
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04:35:36Paul_the_NerdThe newest version of the NSF player fails to work for me.
04:35:37*Paul_the_Nerd is sad.
04:50:57pagefaultI notice a fix for ATA sleep
04:51:03pagefaultdoes this affect the shutdown option
04:54:01Paul_the_NerdShutdown option?
04:57:00pagefaultdisk shutdown
04:57:07pagefaultit turns off the disk after inactivity
04:57:17pagefaultbut it causes problems it never spins it back up on some players
04:57:31Paul_the_NerdWhat player exactly are you referring to?
04:57:36pagefaulth10
04:57:55Paul_the_NerdBecause if you notice the fix relates only to the iPod Nano, at least the one I see on the front page.
04:58:38pagefaultwell that file is also used in the h10 firmware
04:58:43pagefaultthats why I asked
04:58:53Paul_the_NerdA lot of files are used in all or many targets...
04:59:23Paul_the_NerdA cursory glance at the changes show that they only affect the Nano.
05:00
05:00:01pagefaultlooking at the code looks like it affects my player
05:00:16pagefault #ifndef IPOD_NANO
05:00:34Paul_the_NerdYes, ifndef IPOD_NANO, do what it's always done, else do new stuff
05:00:36pagefaultoh nevermind
05:00:39pagefaultI am sleepy
05:01:01pagefaultexcuse the intrusion
05:01:12Paul_the_NerdNo worries.
05:01:20Paul_the_NerdBut which H10s have problems?
05:01:28pagefaultthe 5/6gb models
05:01:30Paul_the_NerdI thought disk sleeping was working at least on one of the H10 targets.
05:01:39pagefaultwe were talking about it in here yesterday
05:01:52Paul_the_NerdIt doesn't wake after sleeping, much like the Nano's flash?
05:01:53pagefaultI just wondered if someone came up with a solution
05:01:58pagefaultyes
05:02:01pagefaultit just stays off
05:02:08pagefaultso it essentially locks up
05:03:40pagefaultplugging in the usb cable wakes it up
05:03:45pagefaultbut that boots it back to the iriver firmware
05:04:44pagefaultso I think it's fixable
05:04:51pagefaultbut no one is sure how yet
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05:24:04Black-SythQuick question, anything like Rockbox available for new gen nano?
05:24:15Paul_the_NerdNo.
05:24:21Black-SythTerrible.
05:24:26Black-SythAnything I can do to this thing?
05:25:07Paul_the_NerdNot until someone figures out the hardware and how to replace the firmware.
05:26:43myzar|awaysame for the new ipods
05:26:46myzar|awaybut hope is not lost
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05:26:52myzarBagder is hard at work
05:26:58myzarbelieve it
05:27:13scorcheeven though he is doing 0 work on the nano =)
05:27:19myzarshhhh scorche
05:27:24Paul_the_NerdThe new iPod 5.5G is drastically different from the new Nano
05:27:27myzarbelieve it
05:27:34scorchei dont
05:27:34myzarno more arguments
05:27:44myzarbelieve it, or naruto will have his way with you
05:28:03scorcheo_O
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06:30:26Davide-NYChello
06:30:36Teknomancerhi all
06:30:36Davide-NYCjhMikeS: are you "in the house"?
06:31:29Davide-NYCif so, who you (briefly) explain this pcf50606 stuff to me. I am intrigued
06:31:47Davide-NYCor anyone that know what this is all about
06:31:54jhMikeSDavide-NYC: yup
06:32:07jhMikeSYou had an idea but had left ?
06:32:19Davide-NYCNot again
06:32:28Davide-NYCurghh, I can't remember
06:32:29jhMikeSWas just working on culling the mp3 list
06:32:34Davide-NYCit'll come to me
06:32:43Davide-NYCOh yeah!
06:32:44jhMikeSDo any SPDIF test
06:32:45jhMikeS?
06:32:53Davide-NYChaven ot, sorry
06:33:04Davide-NYCHow's this for an idea.
06:33:23Davide-NYCnot include Mpeg 2 options at all
06:34:02jhMikeShmm...then the only samplerate available for mp3 would be 44.1
06:34:14Davide-NYCQuestion: do OF players playback MP2?
06:34:28jhMikeSThe X5 does
06:34:43Davide-NYCI think it's worth it to find out.
06:34:45jhMikeSI think most decoder will decode it
06:34:56jhMikeSI can just look in the x5 book
06:35:04Davide-NYCIf so my point would be less valid
06:35:22Davide-NYCbut if (for example) iPods didn't, then I'd say leave it out.
06:35:31Davide-NYCWe should encode just to the universal subset.
06:35:44Paul_the_NerdMP2 is a pretty universal subset though
06:35:47Davide-NYCOr a nearly universal subset of Mpeg.
06:35:51Paul_the_NerdA lot of stuff supports it
06:36:00Davide-NYCIf so then I have no point really
06:36:05Davide-NYC:-)
06:36:17Davide-NYCBut that was my idea.
06:36:28Davide-NYCfrom yesterday night.
06:36:34jhMikeSIt's basically chosen by samplerate except for the low bitrates and 144kpbs
06:36:54Davide-NYCI thought mp3 supports 32kHz 44.1kHz 48kHz
06:37:00jhMikeSI'm leaving out the 144 since it breaks up a nice list
06:37:00Davide-NYCdoes the HW?
06:37:07Davide-NYCkewl
06:37:27Davide-NYC^^ does the hardware support 32kHz?
06:37:38jhMikeSMPEG layer 3 version 1 supports 32, 44, 48, l3 version 2 16, 22, 24
06:37:54jhMikeSThe wmcodec players will
06:38:12jhMikeSThe iRiver and iAudio no
06:38:19Teknomancerah .. does anyone know what ".m4a" format is ?
06:38:24Teknomancerand can rockbox play it ?
06:38:42jhMikeSI'd would like a nice resampler to be able to record FM radio at 32khz since FM radio bandwith is limited to 15.3 kHz
06:38:48Davide-NYCm4a = aac = iTunes and YES.
06:39:15Davide-NYCHey did you check out the menu discussion in your honor?
06:39:19Teknomancerhmm.. ok let me try copying my first m4a files to rockbox and try :)
06:39:21Teknomancerthanks Davide-NYC
06:39:26Davide-NYCNP ;-)
06:39:53Davide-NYCI have dentist in 7 hours
06:39:57Davide-NYCmust sleep.
06:40:02Davide-NYCgot home an hour ago.
06:40:04Davide-NYC:-(
06:40:17Davide-NYCno real time for RB tonight I'm afraid.
06:40:46jhMikeSBack to bed?
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06:41:00Davide-NYCjhMikeS: if you could please toss me a quick email explaining all of this pcf50606 that would rule
06:41:10Davide-NYChasta manana
06:41:14Davide-NYC'night
06:41:15jhMikeSsure...
06:41:20jhMikeSbuenas noches
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07:26:25dirthello, how is work coming with apple fw 5.5?
07:26:31Teknomancerwow
07:26:36Teknomancerrockbox is playing .m4a ;)
07:26:38Teknomancercool
07:27:01scorchedirt: you might want to check the forum thread about it
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07:28:42dirtok
07:29:47dirtwhere in forums
07:30:10scorchenew ports section where all the threads about new ports go ;)
07:30:26robertjmHello All. I checked the manual and maybe I'm missing it, but how do I fastforward through Rockbox? Using Ipod 1st Gen. Nano.
07:30:59scorchehold the next button?
07:31:14robertjmThat'll do! Thanks much.
07:32:15dirthow is progress going with utilizing the second chip or whatnot with the ipods? for more battery life.
07:32:20dirtnot chip but... ?
07:32:51scorchethat isnt really for more battery life, but it is going
07:33:07dirtwhat is it for
07:33:28scorcheto have another core to do things on
07:33:39scorchein otherwords, it will give us much more processing power
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07:43:32dirtic, what is being done about battery life?
07:43:49scorchewe have to figure out the issue first
07:44:02JdGordonyeah, we are aiming for 1hr..
07:44:05dirtbecause it goes fast, only drawback to rb imo, that and video pb, but dont get me wrong i love rockbox
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07:44:07JdGordonwe'll get there son enough
07:44:25dirti got a car charger and swaping to orig fw is not too bad for movies..
07:44:28dirtrad
07:44:53scorcheJdGordon: obviously not for some people =P
07:44:55dirttake care guys, and thanks
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08:00
08:04:19 Quit JoeBorn (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
08:06:03hcsdoes anyone know of a close equivalent to USEC_TIMER for coldfire?
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08:09:13hcsor anything I can count on to increment steadily, a timer unused?
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08:41:01aliaskWikispam at 10 o'clock!
08:43:35scorcheman the bannons!
08:44:03aliaskI just got a mental picture of a giant cannon shaped like a banana just then.
08:45:43scorche...interesting
08:45:56aliaskIt made my day :D
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08:56:54*Bagder removed BestSongsong, BestSong, BestFang, BestQian, BestZhang
08:57:32*myzar hugs Bagder
08:59:10aliaskAnd here's the bannon to celebrate: http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/4104/bannoney9.png
08:59:53hcsheh
09:00
09:00:08anrdewmel@aliask, lmfao
09:00:37 Join Ribs [0] (n=freenode@91.84.8.218)
09:00:48myzaromg
09:00:51myzara bananon
09:00:54myzargenius.
09:01:28aliaskDon't thank me - thank scorche! (we love you scorche)
09:03:00Bagderhttp://lwn.net/Articles/204641/#Comments
09:03:12Bagderto save us from having the gplv3 debate...
09:03:15Bagder:-)
09:06:02*hcs is more or less license agnostic
09:06:35hcsI use modified BSD for my own projects, but I'm happy to go along with whatever rockbox uses.
09:06:54BHSPitLappyPachelbel's "Bananon in D"
09:07:01hcsheh
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09:08:05myzari say...
09:08:13myzarwe go with anarchy
09:08:34myzarDOWN WITH LICENCING!
09:09:39Bagderwithout license, there's _no_ right to use anyone else's things
09:09:58myzarerr
09:10:03myzarlet's go ahead another step
09:10:04hcspublic domain, no need for licensing
09:10:15myzarDOWN WITH THE LIMITATION OF RIGHTS!
09:10:16Bagderthat's a myth
09:10:18myzaryeah, that'll do.
09:10:30Bagderpublic domain is not a way to escape a license really
09:10:46myzari say we abolish all legal matters and allow freedom of ANYTHING
09:10:47myzarha.
09:10:50myzarnow you can't argue that
09:10:59hcsBagder: I'll admit that I really don't know, but my understanding was that waiving copyright protection works.
09:11:12Bagdernot necessarily in all cases
09:11:32hcsinteresting... could you cite an example?
09:12:00Bagderwell, this is of course all law and law is fuzzy until taken to court
09:12:34Bagderand it differs from country to country
09:13:14hcstrue, and I barely know anything about the US laws...
09:14:36myzarespecially cross country court cases
09:14:38myzar;o
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09:29:47pondlifepetur: Morning
09:30:20 Quit mordov|wrk ("The amount of experience you have is paralell with the amount of equipment you have ruined.")
09:30:41pondlifepetur: By any chance, do you know why the recording screen disables voice menus?
09:30:51scorchealiask: =)
09:31:27aliaskpondlife: I think it's due to codec swapping.
09:31:31scorchepetur: i dont even have to say it, do i?
09:31:52peturmorning ;)
09:32:20peturthe encoder framework changes removed it I think
09:32:28peturI already told jhMikeS
09:33:06peturscorche: don't :)
09:33:07pondlifeRecording already stops any ongoing voice with a voice_stop(); I was wondering if there needed to be a mechanism to prevent voice restarting during record?
09:33:22scorchepetur: i dont have to...it is already in your mind =)
09:33:37pondlifeTo fix the problem where a reset (or idle poweroff) leaves voice menus disabled.
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09:34:11pondlifem.....
09:34:13*petur slaps the webclient with stuff on his desk
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09:34:30scorche.a...
09:34:39pondlife......aaaa..
09:34:45hcsodd, battery level goes to zero after exiting pacbox
09:34:56peturthe best solution will be to make the voice codec build-in, so no more swapping
09:34:58scorche...nnn...
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09:35:01*pondlife attempts to delay the inevitable
09:35:17pondlifepetur: True enough
09:35:29*petur considers closing the browser before it's too late
09:35:34pondlifescorche: too late already
09:35:38pondlifeIt's in my head now
09:35:47scorche=D
09:35:49pondlifedo do de do do
09:36:04*pondlife drinks a bucket of vodka
09:36:22pondlife... but it hashn't helpped
09:36:44aliaskThat song got played as an ad in Australia, so every time you say it, I feel the need to put on Banana boat sunscreen.
09:37:19scorchedoes the banana boat have bannons?
09:37:31aliaskA distinct lack of them.
09:37:37scorchehow lame
09:37:37aliaskI should write them a letter.
09:37:46peturpondlife: since the big changes in recording by jhMikeS, I haven't been in that code anymore
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09:38:29pondlifeOK, I was just thinking I could resolve the problem from the voice side, so no settings change would be required.
09:38:42pondlifeBut I'd like to be sure what the problem is first
09:39:04pondlifeNo rush, got plenty other stuff to do.
09:39:07peturrecording loads the encoder into the codec space
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10:21:18Kitt0sWEEEEEEEEEE !!!!!!!!!!! IT WORKED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
10:24:53 Quit midgey34 ()
10:26:51Kitt0show do i use && in #ifdef?
10:28:17Bagder#if defined(BLABLA) && define(BLABLA2)
10:28:26Bagderuh, defined() in both places
10:28:45Kitt0sok thanks :]
10:29:03Kitt0si manged to make a bootloader that instead of showing the ugly text.. shows a nice status bar :D
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10:30:39markunwhat does the statusbar show?
10:31:19Kitt0sahh sry
10:31:21Kitt0sprogress bar
10:31:41Kitt0sworks like a charm :]
10:33:12markunHow do you calculate how far the bootloading progress is?
10:35:11Kitt0swell, i'v just replace all the printf's into a progress of 10%
10:35:21Kitt0sso it works ok..
10:36:11Bagderisn't that like... very quick?
10:36:59Kitt0shmm.. not very very.. but yea its quick.. but i hated opening my X5 and looking at that text and background... so i'v changed it..
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10:37:35markunCan't say I hate it..
10:38:11Kitt0swell i just like my bootloader alot better...
10:38:17markunKitt0s: did you notice the big speed improvement with the latest rockbox?
10:38:32Kitt0sno? on the x5 you mean?
10:38:54markunyes
10:39:36markunthe last daily is the first with the improvement
10:39:45Kitt0sho
10:39:56Kitt0si use a build from 24/10
10:40:16BagderI'd suggest you update then! ;-)
10:40:27Kitt0slol yea :]
10:40:44Kitt0swhats the big improvment? i mean what caused it?
10:40:54markun"Pinched pcf50606 i2c code used in iRiver players and adapted to x5. Boost ratios down as much as 100 percent for mp3 and 50 percent for vorbis. mp3 hardly ever boosts even with eq. Scrolling much sharper. Like a whole new player. The code can be used for both iRiver and x5 by just defining macros with the appropriate ports and bit numbers for each player. Probably will have a pcf50606-coldfire.c soon."
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10:42:45Kitt0ssweet:]
10:42:51Kitt0swill upgrade soon!
10:45:29markunI see someone in the iaudiophile forum yesterday asked about rockbox runtime vs OF. Good chance they will give him outdated info now..
10:46:33Kitt0si think it was about the battery life?
10:48:21markunyes, which should also have improved dramatically with that update
10:48:30Kitt0snice
10:48:48Kitt0snow i need a pinch for the ipod photo so it wouldn't get stuck all the time :<
10:56:42markunBagder: Shall I add to the BatteryRuntime wiki page that the playlist should be bigger than the RAM size?
11:00
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11:09:49pondlifelostlogic: Don't suppose you're around yet?
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11:43:13***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
11:56:20*pondlife attempts to summon any playback.c gurus e.g. Slasheri or lostlogic, or ...?
11:57:05Slasheripondlife :)
11:57:16pondlifeI was looking into why the WPS progress bar doesn't reach the right hand side on short tracks with repeat=off...
11:57:46Slasherihmm
11:57:54pondlifeI found that audio_fill_file_buffer() is resulting in track details being cleared, while prev_ti is still required.
11:58:10pondlifeThe offending line seems to be if (!audio_initialize_buffer_fill(!start_play))
11:58:23pondlifeI think that !start_play should just be start_play
11:58:43Slasheriok, i have no idea how it works now.. :)
11:58:44pondlifeThis fixes the problem, and makes the elapsed position correct
11:59:02Slasheriprobably just a typo, lets check
11:59:13pondlifeLooks like it was deliberate in http://www.rockbox.org/viewcvs.cgi/apps/playback.c.diff?r1=1.262&r2=1.263
12:00
12:00:12pondlifeBut I would thin doing a clear if you're starting/restarting playbackwould make sense
12:00:15pondlifethink
12:01:14Slasheriyep, true. but if starting playback, buffers should already be clear..
12:01:25pondlifeOtherwise, codec_pcmbuf_position_callback() gets to look at prev_ti and sees lots of 0s
12:01:49Slasherioh, maybe prev_ti is just unitialized when starting playback?
12:01:58Slasheriit might be better just to initialize it properly
12:02:13pondlifebrb
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12:22:21JdGordondoes anyone know where the code for the f2/3 screens are?
12:23:05JdGordondw.. found it
12:24:20pondlifeSlasheri: No, prev_ti itself isn't the problem, it points to the right track info. But the track info fields (length, elapsed etc.) have been zeroed.
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12:26:20Slasheripondlife: shouldn't prev_ti be then NULL too?
12:27:09Slasheriah, there was the restriction that it can never be null..
12:28:18pondlifeNo, it's only used in the codec callback and it must have been initialised by then.
12:28:31Slasheripondlife: hmm! i don't see prev_ti is properly initialized at all when playback starts
12:28:34Slasherithat must be fixed
12:28:53Slasherithat can cause it to write data to unknown memory locations
12:29:16pondlifeWhat should it be initialised to? NULL I guess, and check it before use..
12:29:36Slasheriyes, might be a good idea to do
12:29:53pondlifeWill do
12:30:06pondlifeBut I'll wait to hear back from lostlogic before I commit this ! mod
12:30:10Slashericurrently it's just unitialized AND used when playback starts..
12:30:19Slasheriso that might cause crashes
12:30:33pondlifeHmm, I don't see it being used at that point.
12:30:48Slashericodec_pcmbuf_position_callback()
12:30:52pondlifecodec_pcmbuf_position_callback() isn't called until the first track transition.
12:30:54Slasherithat function ever writes to it
12:30:59Slasheriah, hmm
12:31:38pondlifeAnyway, I've protected it now.
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12:35:41Quazgaaim curious, whys it so hard to get the battery meter right for the x5 ?
12:35:41Quazgaaor does nobody care
12:35:41pondlifeWell, you care... so use that curiosity!
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12:36:51*pondlife wonders why we are so keen to reset track/buf _ridx/_widx....
12:39:39Quazgaaive never looked at the rockbox code in my life ;)
12:39:39Quazgaathis is my first dap i got it like a month or two ago
12:39:39pondlifeEveryone was in that state once
12:39:39Quazgaaheh
12:39:39pondlifeIt's just a constant battle - Rockbox Time vs. Real Life Time
12:39:45JdGordonamiconn: you around?
12:40:09JdGordonok, how about scorche?
12:40:30JdGordon3rd try.... anyone with a recorder?
12:41:40Quazgaathe instrument?
12:41:40JdGordonthe archos target
12:41:40Quazgaaoh right :P
12:42:34pondlifeJdGordon: I've got a broken one... we're a lot of use today, aren't we
12:42:44JdGordon:'(
12:43:40JdGordonyou might be able o help.... in the f2/3 quickscreens, you are supposed to be able to change the setting with f2+right and quick when f2 is relesead, arnt you?
12:44:16pondlifeSorry, not sure. My Recorder has been broken for a year or so.
12:44:21JdGordonok
12:44:24*JdGordon waits
12:48:38*preglow curses his bad ears
12:49:57*pondlife curses his bad teeth
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12:52:45obopreglow: you were after me?
12:53:05preglowobo: indeed i were, what's the status of that ipod wheel ticker patch?
12:53:36preglowfg
12:53:38preglowargh
12:53:41oboI've got a slightly updated version I need to put on flyspray... but I was hoping you could take a look at it :)
12:53:55preglowi'm planning on commiting it
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12:54:33obodo you think it would be useful to add it to the plugin struct?
12:54:56amiconnJdGordon: Yes, that's how it worked before button actions. You had two modes of quickscreen operation
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12:55:22preglowobo: not really, no. i'd like stuff in the plugin struct to be as platform independent as possible, to not encourage too many ipod only plugins and the like
12:55:26JdGordonamiconn: ok, thats what i was worried about :p im not sur how to re-implement that
12:55:36preglowobo: and in any case, features like that can come later if requested
12:56:42obopreglow: okay - give me a few minutes and I'll upload...
12:56:53preglowno hurry, got some other stuff to do first
12:57:20preglowi've got absolutely no chance of hearing this dithering at all...
12:57:47preglowthen again, i'm probably not the target audience
12:58:20pondlifepreglow: Listen to fade outs of non-distorted material?
12:58:50pondlifeOr is this referring to the auto-fade on pause?
12:58:50preglowi hear it find at, say, 12 bits
12:58:58preglowbut not 16, hell no
12:59:06preglowhear it fine, anyway
12:59:22pondlifeCan we use the sim to render the output to a WAV file for analysis?
12:59:51pondlifeOr is this in the lower levels...
13:00
13:02:15preglowsure we can
13:02:47preglowhaha, i barely hear the dither at 13 bits...
13:06:18preglowi'll stuff up a patch some time today
13:08:30markunpreglow: are you working on noise-shaping?
13:08:35preglowmarkun: it's already in
13:09:38JdGordondoes the bookmark "browser" need a title?
13:13:28 Quit barrywardell ()
13:13:29PaulJamJdGordon: it was you who added the option to show dirctoryname/path in the browser, right?
13:13:43JdGordonyes
13:13:45JdGordon... and no :p
13:15:33pondlifeJdGordon: The settings patch doesn't patch very cleanly...
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13:16:04pondlifeAny chance of an update?
13:16:06JdGordonpondlife: yeah, its settings.c ... ill upload it resynced to yesterday in a min
13:16:25pondlifeGreat. And include that new .h file too.. you know the one.
13:16:31PaulJamJdGordon: in apps/gui/list.c line 359 : shouldn't it here be "lines" instead of "display->nb_lines" ?
13:17:48JdGordonPaulJam: umm... im not sure
13:18:17JdGordonwell... yes, i tinhk so.. cept the difference is 1 and it really is no big deal if the scroll bar is of by one
13:18:59pondlifeThere's a bug report mentioning that symptom...
13:19:19PaulJamJdGordon: if you have titles enabled and the dir contains one entry more than entrys fit on the screen the scrollbar is shown, but it has no space at the end
13:19:38JdGordonoh ok... well that could be it then.
13:19:46PaulJamso you have no indication that there is another file at the bottom
13:19:50pondlifehttp://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/5938
13:20:36preglowwould anyone happen to know if all our targets use an interlaced output format?
13:23:10JdGordonpondlife: the source tree with that patch is playing up... so im not gonna bother with it and jjust resync it when im ready in a little while, ok?
13:24:36obopreglow: updated
13:25:42pondlifeJdGordon: OK. I just wanted to test and investigate any boosting issues that remained.. No rush.
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13:28:10preglowobo: stellar, will have a look
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13:32:57preglowthis settings_reset() function, what's it for?
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13:33:09preglowi thought most settings had their default reset value in the settings struct
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13:35:15amiconnMost, but not all
13:35:29preglowobo: in any way your simple settings are not needed in there
13:35:34preglowbut i can fix that
13:35:41obopreglow: I don't know - freqmod added the settings and usec timer code
13:38:41amiconnpreglow: Some default values can't be included in the struct because they aren't fixed
13:39:01amiconn...e.g. the default contrast on archos recorders depends on the hardware version
13:39:22preglowusec timer?
13:39:36preglowwhy would the usec timer be needed for this?
13:40:01preglowtimer_register???
13:40:06JdGordonyay, new bookmark viewer compiles.. test time :p
13:40:42obopreglow: to make the click it needed to turn on and off faster than a tick
13:40:50preglowobo: you can't use the timer.c module for this, it'll probably step right on the toes of the backlight fading
13:41:22preglowreally? i thought a tick didn't sound that bad
13:41:34obopreglow: you can only have one instance of timer_register at a time?
13:42:05preglowobo: yes, indeed
13:42:18preglowipods only have 2 timers, afaik
13:42:34preglowthe first is the tick timer
13:42:54preglowthis _could_ be modified on ipod, where the timer base is always the same, but i don't know if i want to
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13:45:24preglowhmmm
13:45:30preglowon the other hand
13:45:42preglowthe backlight is always on when you're using the wheel anyway
13:45:45preglowit should never be in fade mode
13:46:04preglowbut this would mean that the piezo can never be used for anything but wheel feedback
13:46:29obopreglow: it does clash with the backlight fading patch, which AFAIK used the timer to rapidly turn it on/off
13:46:48preglowobo: backlight fading patch? backlight fading has been in the core for ages
13:47:06obopreglow: sorry, backlight brightness
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13:48:16lostlogicpondlife: I dunno −− the clearing of track entries has always been frustrating −− must have metadata-on-buffer :-P
13:48:38pondlifeSo you wouldn't object to my proposed commit?
13:48:48pondlifei.e. !start_play becomes start_play
13:48:52pondlifeSeems ok here.
13:48:56preglowobo: it will most definitely clash with that, yes
13:49:01preglowbacklight fading does the exact same thing
13:49:54didjpreglow: i hear your the man to talk to about mixing playback and line-in ? ie, is it even possible on H3xx?
13:50:18lostlogicpondlife: doesnt' matter one way or the other to me −− I'd hafta do a full review of all the track clearing behaviors to have an opinion −− trust your judgement :)
13:50:25peturdidj: the h300 can do that in hardware iirc
13:50:35pondlifeOK... I'll do it then!
13:50:59pondlifelostlogic: One other thing, you wrotre pcmbuf_position_callback, complete with the if...
13:50:59lostlogicpondlife: just make sure that it won't leave a track with 'filesize != 0' in a place where buffer fill will hit it and think the track is used when it's not.
13:51:00didjpetur: ahh, cool, dont suppose theres been any patches in the pipline ?
13:51:21peturdidj: write one ;) the UDA datasheet is in the wiki
13:51:22pondlifeCould that not be simplified down to prev_ti->id3.elapsed += size * 1000 / 4 / NATIVE_FREQUENCY; ?
13:51:45didjpetur: ah snap, ill check it out tho, cheers
13:53:24preglowdidj: possible? sure
13:53:39preglowuda can do it, so both h1x0 and h3x0 can do it
13:54:09pondlifeTo your other concern, I think that is handled already by audio_read_file(), it explicitly sets filesize to 0 when track_widx is incremented.
13:54:12lostlogicpondlife: I believe I wrote it the way I because it compiled to faster assembly (ie don't assign to things in memory until we know what goes back to memory) on coldfire... but then I could be misremembering
13:54:34lostlogicpondlife: ah, we might not ever need to clear tracks then, but I wouldn't push our luck just yet ;)
13:55:10lostlogic(well we'd need to in the case of a new playlist or a reshuffle, but not in normal playback)
13:55:11pondlifeThe if just stops the callback if we get an elapsed + size > length. Shouldn't ever happen anyway, but maybe in some formats it might?
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13:56:30lostlogicpondlife: Nobody other than that callback can tell when to stop itself
13:56:44lostlogicpondlife: because the callback is called from pcmbuf which has no concept of track boundaries
13:56:55lostlogicpondlife: and performance is _critical_ because it's called on interrupt
13:56:58pondlifeAh, ok
13:57:40lostlogicpondlife: so basically when the pcmbuf chunk that represents the track transition is finished, the callback is called and the position is set beyond the end of the old track, at that point, the callback is done
13:57:49pondlifeThat remains unchanged then, apart from a quick check to ensure prev_ti has been set up
13:58:16lostlogicyuck, quick check, every instruction matters in interrupt context.
13:58:28lostlogicis that really necessary?
13:58:30lostlogicit shouldn't
13:58:41pondlifeI didn't think so, but Slasheri convinced me otherwise.
13:58:49pondlifeNow you are convincing me back!
13:59:00pondlifeRead the logs from about 2 hours ago...
13:59:09lostlogickk, I'll continue arguing after doing so
13:59:33pondlifeI don't think it's needed really
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14:01:33 Quit aliask ("Chatzilla 0.9.75 [Firefox 1.5.0.7/2006090918]")
14:01:37lostlogicpondlife: feel free to initialize prev_ti to the track entry just behind the first track entry (ie the last track entry) when playback starts, so that it's never null, for memory safety, but don't add any instructions to the position callback
14:02:30lostlogicpondlife: might be a good idea to put a comment on it that it is called from an ISR.
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14:19:39preglowno shit
14:21:21lostlogicpreglow: ?
14:22:21preglowas in it's a very good idea :P
14:22:35lostlogic:-P
14:22:51preglowi find rockbox is a bit lacking in comments like that
14:22:59preglowmakes it pretty hard to just jump in and fix something
14:23:02lostlogictrue story
14:23:16pondlifeWell there's one less lacking now.
14:23:18lostlogic"don't change this, because" are the best comments, even if you are _going_ to change it, you know what you're about to break ;)
14:23:45pondlifeThat's the main reason I'm "cautious".
14:24:11preglowmandatory doxygen!
14:24:28lostlogicpreglow: death first!
14:24:41pondlifedeath by doxygen!
14:25:27preglow:P
14:25:37preglowi've actually added a couple of doxygen comments to rockbox
14:25:40preglowbeing the bastard i am
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14:42:04pondlifelunchtime...
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14:54:26Larsiehi
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14:58:11Larsiehi
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15:00
15:00:29Genre9mp3hmmm... sorry if this is a dumb question, but would be possible to calculate the dB(SPL) out of a recording (supposedely we take into account the gain level)?
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15:05:36Genre9mp3Different mics/settings would produce different waveforms, right? Using a reference mic (eg. the internal mic of a player), and standard settings, would be possible to calibrate these info to use for a calculation of the Noise enviroment out of the recorded signal?
15:05:52Genre9mp3Or I am completely miss something in that?
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15:08:27markunhi Larsie, what's up?
15:10:07preglowGenre9mp3: if you've got the gain level you used to record, then you can. but you need your player calibrated first
15:12:25Genre9mp3preglow: So my theory is correct. By calibrating the mics we could measure the enviroment noise
15:13:09preglownot calibrating the mic, you need to calibrate the player
15:13:23preglowthat is, the recording device
15:13:24Genre9mp3what do you mean by that?
15:14:09preglowif i wanted to find spl from a recording i have, i would have to have the spl measurement done at that recording gain level for a specific test signal
15:14:31preglowthen i could use that info to calculate spl from any point in the recording, assuming the mic is stationary
15:14:55Genre9mp3Ok... suppose we know that the enviroment noise is 90dB, we record with a player and use that info to calibrate, right?
15:16:08Genre9mp3Wouldn't a different mic produce different waves?
15:17:25Genre9mp3What i'm thinking of is... a plugin that could measure the enviroment noise and display it on screen
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15:19:06preglowperfectly possible, but you would need to own a dbspl meter
15:19:32Genre9mp3Yes... we would need that to make the calibrations
15:19:56Genre9mp3Do you believe that the result would be accurate enough?
15:19:57preglowand each microphone/dap combination you use would need to be calibrated
15:20:03preglowaccurate enough for casual use, yes
15:20:28Genre9mp3Also.. this could be done for playback, too
15:21:08Genre9mp3Of course this would require measurments for every player/earphones combination => practical impossible
15:21:16preglowyes, but it's all very hypothetical
15:21:21preglownot many people have spl meters
15:22:07Genre9mp3Well, of course this couldn't be based hypothetically
15:22:39preglowi guess we could use a database of some sort to let other people do measurements as well
15:22:50preglowlike for the internal mic and for the bundled mic
15:22:59preglowbut i don't know how much they vary
15:23:26Genre9mp3internal mics and bundled mics or from player to player you mean?
15:23:40preglowwell, yeah, i assume you get the same mic with all h1x0 players
15:23:43preglowthe small black one
15:23:48Genre9mp3yes
15:23:49markunDo you really need to do the measurements for every DAP or can you just do it for one and then mesure the offset of the other DAPs?
15:24:01preglowmarkun: one _should_ of course do it for every dap
15:24:03Genre9mp3and the internal mic should output the same on all h100 players
15:24:33preglowanyway, don't drag me into this, i don't want an spl meter :>
15:24:40markunpreglow: can it be that mic A is louder than B on a ipod and more quite on a iriver?
15:24:50markunquiet
15:24:50preglowmarkun: sure
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15:24:58markunaha, didn't know that.
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15:25:12preglowmarkun: it depends on the amp, input impedance, power bias
15:25:14preglowloads of factors
15:25:14Genre9mp3Each device I guess could drive an external mic differently
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15:27:07Genre9mp3At least for the irivers the measurements could be based from the internal mics only
15:27:27preglowthe internal mic sucks ass, so i don't know how much i'd want to rely on it
15:28:09Genre9mp3What happens when you have clipping on that? I guess the measurement would be ruined, right?
15:28:24preglowoh yes
15:28:27preglowcompletely
15:28:56Genre9mp3So there should be a max dB level that you can measure
15:29:04Genre9mp3depending the mic...
15:29:05preglowof coruse
15:29:11preglowbut it would be pretty large, i reckon
15:29:16preglowdepending on how low a gain the input amp can do
15:29:24preglowif you clip, you just lower the mic amp gain
15:29:25Genre9mp3yes
15:29:29preglowuntil it's at the minimum
15:29:55Genre9mp3a ratio with the gain could be calculated, too
15:29:59preglowthis assumes the gain control is accurate, though, if it's not, you would need to calibrate at several gains
15:30:18Genre9mp3sounds a lot of work..
15:31:02Genre9mp3hmmm... difficult to implement but I think it would be cool to have...
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15:31:37preglow8 hours for dab, 22 hours for mp3? is receiving dab data that power hungry?
15:31:55preglowGenre9mp3: it's not a lot of work, really, the calibration is the only part that can't be done by anyone
15:32:09*Genre9mp3 tries to drag preglow into this by sending him a dBspl meter! :P
15:32:19Bagderpreglow: weird indeed, but I figure its another chip or something for the radio stuff
15:32:41preglowBagder: probably
15:32:54preglowGenre9mp3: hah, if you buy me a decent dbspl meter, then hell yes, i'll code you a plugin
15:33:05preglowthose bastards ain't cheap
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15:35:20Genre9mp3The problem is that If I buy a dBspl meter then I won't be interested in a plugin! :P
15:36:55Genre9mp3But I guess it would worth if then we could be able to turn our players into expensive dBspl meters! :)
15:37:38preglowyou misunderstand, the spl meter would go to me, not you, so you won't have one :)
15:38:15Genre9mp3heh... I have to buy one first before sending to you...
15:38:29preglowuse my address for shipping :>
15:39:28Genre9mp3and what if you loose interest when you finaly have it on hands? :P
15:39:51pondlifeWho's a last.fm/scrobbler expert here?
15:40:03Genre9mp3not me
15:40:05preglowobo
15:40:14oboyup?
15:40:30pondlifeDon't suppose you could do a bit of testing with the current CVS build.
15:40:48pondlifeI hope I've not just torpedoed scrobbling...
15:41:04pondlife(I hope that line comes up as my quote of the month...)
15:41:38pondlifeThis is assuming you're relying on the track unbuffering callback, which might not be called as much as it used to be.
15:43:21***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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15:45:32Genre9mp3preglow: http://www.amazon.com/Galaxy-Audio-CM130-SPL-Meter/dp/B0002GWFG4
15:45:47Genre9mp3preglow: I wouldn't say expensive... ;)
15:46:54barrywardellBagder: see my latest commit? i think we could also add the sansa sim to the build table now...
15:47:06Bagdernice!
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15:49:42linihmh is there anything i need to set when compiling for the recoder target?
15:49:59liniit still says that the output is larger than max and skips the ucl file
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15:55:15amiconnobo, preglow: You can't use timer_register() for the tick, as that is also exposed to plugins which are free to use it. Backlight fading falls back to not fading when the timer is taken, but what would the wheel tick do in this case?
15:57:01Bagderlini: yes, you need to make the image smaller
15:57:11oboamiconn: at the moment it would be silent
15:57:41pondlifeWhy does the H300 build include "car adapter mode"? That requires that the bootloader supports booting into Rockbox when power is applied.
15:57:47amiconnpreglow: You can't use the timer for generating 2 different cycles, as that would mean to set the timer period to the largest common denominator, which could very well be == 1 - and then we would end up with one interrupt _per microsecond_
15:58:58pondlifeShould the "car adapter mode" option be removed from the settings for most targets? I'm just not sure which ones...
16:00
16:00:40obois there any reason sleep_thread always adds 1 to the number of ticks to sleep?
16:00:57amiconnCar adapter mode has 3 requirements: (1) The target must have charging (rules out the ondio), and connecting the charger must cause the unit to boot (rules out the h1x0)
16:01:27amiconn(2) The target must have persistent settings storage which is not on disk (rules out the Player)
16:01:58amiconn(3) Rockbox must boot from flash (rules out pretty much all newer targets right now)
16:02:47amiconnRequirement (2) could be removed by not having a dedicated charging screen but boot directly into rockbox instead
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16:04:37barrywardellhow come my commit got built twice?
16:04:59thunderlhi, will rockbox support the 5.5g anytime soon? :)
16:05:18Bagderbarrywardell: it was so good!
16:05:25Bagder;-)
16:05:35BagderI think it just happened to get split
16:05:49Bagderi.e the build system updated in the middle of it
16:06:20barrywardellthat's the second time that has hapend to me in the last couple of weeks!
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16:07:03markunthunderl: who knows..
16:07:24thunderlmarkun - i don't - that's for sure :)
16:08:00markunme neither
16:08:13Bagderanyway, there should be a e200 sim in the next build
16:08:18thunderlat the moment there's nothing available for 5.5 though...not rockbox, nor ipodlinux, encyclopodia and so on
16:08:26barrywardell:)
16:08:41Bagderthunderl: rockbox can be made to work with lots of hands-on work
16:08:53Bagderas some people have managed
16:09:21thunderlBadger is the difference so big between 5 and 5.5
16:09:29Bagdernot very big
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16:10:24thunderlBadger is there someone that works in this direction already?
16:10:31*linuxstb is back home from vacation
16:11:15Bagderthunderl: some people have managed
16:11:21Bagdersee the forum thread for 5.5
16:11:32Bagderlinuxstb: welcome back!
16:11:48lexi could try to use my 5.5g with rockbox
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16:13:22linuxstblex: 30GB or 80GB?
16:13:28lex30
16:15:22linuxstbThen you should have some success.
16:16:07lexhmm
16:16:21thunderllinuxstb mine is 30 too
16:16:42lexbut how is it limited then? i can't play music? :o
16:18:16linuxstbRead the forum thread - there are two approaches to getting Rockbox working on the new 5gs: 1) Make them look like the old 5gs - this breaks the Apple firmware, and makes it hard to transfer files to the ipod; 2) The proper way - there's a partially working patch for Rockbox (and ipodpatcher/ipod_fw), but this seems to have bugs.
16:18:38lexyeah, a 500 side thread :)
16:20:10linuxstbThe short answer is to wait until the official Rockbox builds support the new 5gs.
16:20:41lexyep
16:20:55lexmaybe i'll just wait, because i don't need anything more into this right now
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16:30:26linuxstbbarrywardell, hcs: How are things going with the PP5020 CPU scaling patches? Would it be useful for me to test some things on my Photo?
16:32:40barrywardellthey improve things but we're still experiencing crashes
16:33:04barrywardellafter a few hours rather than after a few minutes
16:35:28barrywardelllinuxstb: also version 4 still has that weird switching of left and right channels
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16:40:42linuxstbbarrywardell: Any pattern to the channel switching? e.g. does it happen when the CPU changes frequency?
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16:41:30linuxstbAlso, how does cpufreq3 work on your H10? I only tried it once on my Photo, but it worked flawlessly for about 5 hours.
16:41:58barrywardelli think i got a crash on my h10.it's been a while since i tested though
16:42:06barrywardelli'll test again tonight
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16:43:15 Quit thunderl ()
16:44:16pRin533peace everyone. I just joined the TWiki and in my email it stated that I should ask permission here if I want to be able to make edits. Is there a specific way that I should make this request? Thank you . peace pRinCe
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16:45:40DeefRight
16:45:42DeefiLingo
16:45:52DeefiLingo and Rockbox any kind of possibility?
16:46:27BagderpRin533: tell us your wiki name
16:47:00pRin533prince serna
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16:47:25pRin533sorry.. princeserna
16:47:33cucoselHello Rockbox team
16:47:37BagderpRin533: fixed!
16:47:47pRin533GREAT!
16:48:20pRin533now, let me just say how KEWL this is! and how much work I did last night just to be able to install this morning (lol)
16:48:34Bagderhaha
16:49:00markunpRin533: which player do you have?
16:49:08pRin533iPod Color 4G
16:49:13DeefOr does anyone of something similar to iLingo that could run on an iRiver?
16:49:41cucoselI want to congrates Mike Sevakis for his last iaudio performance commit
16:49:47pRin533originally formated under HFS
16:49:53linuxstbDeef: Looking at the demo here: http://www.talkingpanda.com/demo.html it just seems to use the Apple firmware's notes functionality, along with links from the notes to audiofiles. So someone would need to write a Rockbox plugin that mimics the Apple firmware's notes capabilties.
16:50:19cucoselis Mike Sevakis=jhMikeS ?
16:50:21pRin533I know you folks are having a good convo, so let me just say this: KEEP up the GOOD work!
16:50:33Deefah
16:50:56cucoselI wondered why the game boy emulator doesn't work yet for the iaudios ???
16:50:56DeefSo its doable, but non existant atm
16:51:13Bagdercucosel: yes Mike Sevakis=jhMikeS
16:51:23Bagdercucosel: because the code has not been adjusted for it
16:51:31Bagderfeel free to make it
16:51:34linuxstbDeef: The text files themselves would probably be viewable with Rockbox's text viewer, but the audio links wouldn't work.
16:51:35cucoselthat seems to be trivial change, no? maybe Mike can do this? :P
16:51:45cucoselBadger: ok, thx
16:52:08cucoselis jhMikes here ?
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16:53:14cucoselwhat is needed for have game boy emu working in X5? keymapping?
16:53:23Bagderno, scaling
16:53:40cucoselnow that the LCD is really performant that could be fine to have it, no?
16:53:56cucoselBadger: what is this, is it hard to code?
16:54:08Bagderread it and judge for yourself
16:54:10cucoseloops Bagder sorry
16:54:52Bagdermany things in Rockbox are just not done, not necessarily because they're very hard
16:55:07cucoseloh ok, good to know
16:55:22cucoselI assume you are all busy then?
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16:56:08cucoselmaybe this jhMikes can do this easily since those weeks he made a lot of good things for X5s
16:56:47*cucosel mail a speacial thx to mike and thx for all Rockbox developers
16:56:48Bagdermaybe you could do it instead
16:57:07cucoselis it easy to do for a noobie dev like me? ;)
16:57:08Bagdersince Mike obviously already do lots of good
16:57:19cucosel: )
16:57:26Bagderno, but it is non-important stuff
16:57:42*Bagder runs off
16:57:50cucoselyeah I can understand that it's not a priority thing
16:57:51amiconnargh
16:57:57cucoselgood by badger
16:58:12*amiconn hopes that Bagder will be back later
16:58:23cucoselwhat's happened?
16:58:23*amiconn has some Makefile questions
16:58:47linuxstbamiconn: I've got a patch that strips the .WxHxD from the bitmap .c filenames, but I can't remember why I did it...
16:58:55cucoselamiconn: are you a iaudio rockbox dev?
17:00
17:00:08 Quit [H5N1] (Remote closed the connection)
17:02:28amiconnYes, among other targets
17:02:53cucoselwow cool !
17:03:35cucoseldo you know if this scaling thing for having Rockboy ported to iaudios is hard?
17:04:27cucoselthe X5 LCD is now really performant, and I'm sure Rockboy could run fine on it
17:05:04amiconnProbably not very hard, didn't check
17:05:58cucoselthat could be very great to have this, what's thought about this?
17:06:17 Join Rincewind [0] (i=squid@proxy3.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de)
17:06:35cucoselor maybe it's an non-important stuff for you like badger said before?
17:06:59linuxstbLast time I looked, the LCD code for rockboy was in a bit of a mess - drivers for different LCDs hacked into the code in different places. So it really could do with a clean-up and the display code rewritten to work on any LCD size/depth (unless such a cleanup happened and I missed it).
17:07:36 Quit barrywardell ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
17:07:47cucoseloops that seems less trivial than I thought then? :(
17:08:24cucoselis rockboy already running for differents LCD?
17:08:34linuxstbWorking on Rockboy would make you lots of friends though - and could be a good introduction to Rockbox coding.
17:08:39cucoselor just iriver h1xx?
17:08:59cucoselthat's true, but...
17:09:00amiconnrockboy is running on a variety of lcds
17:09:05linuxstbI think it works on all LCDs larger than a gameboy (160x144 IIRC). It only works on some smaller ones.
17:09:13cucoselok
17:10:31cucoselare they a lot of devices with screen smaller than gameboy?
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17:11:16linuxstbI think the unsupported ones are Nano, H10 (5/6GB models) and the X5. Not sure about the ipod mini.
17:11:32amiconnProbably also the ipod mini and full-size greyscale
17:11:58amiconnipod g3/G4 greyscale have the same resolution as H1x0, but different pixel format
17:11:59Genre9mp3iriver H100 has rockboy and it has exactly the same resolution with X5
17:12:00linuxstbSo yes, lots of unsupported LCDs still.
17:12:32cucoselouch :(
17:12:34*linuxstb is reminded that pacbox is probably in need of porting to some of the new targets
17:12:35amiconnGenre9mp3: Yes, but the scaling code will be very different
17:12:49cucosellot of works then?
17:13:05cucoselmore than what I thought first at least
17:13:43cucosellinuxstb: is pacbox already working for X5? didn't check yet
17:13:56linuxstbI'm not sure.
17:14:40cucoselok
17:14:54linuxstbI think it could use the same rendering code as the Nano though, so it should be straightforward.
17:15:10cucoseloki
17:16:05linuxstbYes, it looks like pacbox works on all Colour LCD targets, plus the iriver H1x0.
17:16:31cucoseltime for me to go back working, I'll try to do something, if any of your (rockbox confirmed dev) don't wanted to work on
17:16:47cucosellinuxstb: I'll check then thx
17:17:17cucoselbye all, and thx for gave me informations
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17:18:10*amiconn never tried pacbox
17:18:18amiconnNo rom file
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17:28:01pondlife\o/ I've got a method to reproduce the "wrong song on WPS" bug
17:28:16pondlifeIt happens when track_ridx wraps.
17:28:52pondlifeSetting MAX_TRACKS to 4 (or 2?) makes it easy to witness
17:29:01RincewindI had this bug a few days ago, but I can't remember what I did
17:29:21pondlifeIt would normally only happen after 32 tracks played without stopping
17:30:07pondlifeThe WPS displays details from an old song (e.g. 32 tracks previous), but audio carries on ok.
17:30:31Rincewindit was always the song before for me
17:31:19pondlifeMaybe another way to trigger the same bug?
17:33:29Rincewindso when I played the first song in a directory it displayed "no file!"
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17:33:43RincewindI have to go now
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17:37:11pRin533stoopid question (only answer if you are not busy), but is it hard to learn how to code? If not, any place a N00b should start, say if he were interested in trying? ^_~
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17:42:42linuxstbpRin533: Have you done any programming at all?
17:43:23***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
17:44:12pRin533not really =(
17:44:30pRin533I know... large task.
17:46:38goffaI've heard python is a good language to start with
17:48:01pRin533kewl.. thnx
17:48:38goffanp... the python website has tutorials if i remember right
17:49:15goffahttp://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide/Programmers
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17:49:28pRin533GREAT..
17:50:40pRin533goffa: not full beginners it seems but does say for those who know C, Perl.. hmmm.. not bad idea to think about starting there...
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17:51:35goffayeah... there has to be other guides out there as well.. i just posted that as a starting point
17:52:03pRin533no, it's really helpful.. the worse thing is not even knowing where the heck does one even try to begin
17:52:04goffathis might be better
17:52:06goffahttp://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide/NonProgrammers?highlight=%28%28BeginnersGuide%7CProgrammers%29%29
17:52:36pRin533i like the first line "if you've never done programming.." −−LOL
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17:54:00pRin533.. WOW \0/ even has video's.. HOT!!!
17:54:05pRin533thanks goffa
17:54:10lowlightif your interest is in programming for Rockbox then just learn C...it's no more complicated than python.
17:54:12goffano problem
17:54:20goffathere is that
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17:55:54pRin533do they have similarities.. like, if I were to start here let's say.. would I be able to port my understandings on over to C without too much issue? Or in your opion, would it be wiser to just go one track?
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17:56:08pRin533thank you both in advance, btw
17:56:42goffa< pRin533> do they have similarities.. like, if I were to start here let's say.. would I be able to port my understandings on over to C without too much issue? Or in your opion, would it be wiser to just go one track?
17:56:50goffai'll let lowlight answer
17:57:30linuxstbMost (imperative) languages share the same basic concepts - variables, functions, for loops, while loops, if...then...else. If you learn those in one language, they are easy to learn in another.
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17:58:31pRin533kewl!! thanks linuxstb (you set up the diskdump right?)
17:59:02linuxstbC is a low-level language, meaning that each statement in the language does very little. So in one way it's easy to learn, but it means you often need to write more code to do something that a language like python can do in one statement.
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17:59:37linuxstbpRin533: Yes, diskdump is one of mine...
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18:00
18:00:38pRin533you mean.. kindda what Ruby makes claim to, right.. that in which it is made to not cause you to write too much.. right? (I was reading about it about a month ago while studying CSS)
18:00:58pRin533> diskdump worked nicely! :: props!
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18:06:47lowlightpondlife: I got a nice debug dump from the sim for the stopping bug
18:07:25pondlifeGreat
18:07:30lowlightpondlife: http://pastebin.ca/222848
18:08:05lowlightThe problem starts around line 254
18:08:43lowlightI don't know why it wants to buffer when there are no more tracks in the directory
18:09:15lowlightThe codec requests a new track in line 259
18:10:19lowlightit eventually fails in line 276
18:11:02pondlifeDo you know what happened to start it filling again at line 254?
18:11:24lowlightFor some reason Q_AUDIO_CHECK_NEW_TRACK is still in the queue and is executed again (line 292)
18:11:54lowlightit also fails, but now there are TWO failed requests in the codec_callback_queue
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18:12:59lowlighteventually execution returns to codec_load_next_track which passes on of the failed requests to the codec to stop playback
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18:13:12pondlifeQ_AUDIO_CHECK_NEW_TRACK can only come from codec_load_next_track()
18:13:14lowlightBut there's still one fail request in the queue
18:14:34lowlightSo at line 391 when the first track of the second directory is finished, there's still a failed request there and playback stops
18:14:43pondlifeWhat is the (2) in line 276?
18:14:52*lowlight will brb
18:18:00pondlifelostlogic: around?
18:20:48pondlifeIn the buffering process, at what point is it best to clear out a track structure? I was thinking it best to clear it just before it's set up - i.e. at track_widx.
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18:21:59lowlightpondlife: the (2) indicates the case in which audio_check_new_track() fails
18:22:48pondlifeSo the first playlist check?
18:22:58pondlife if (ci.new_track >= 0)...
18:23:44lostlogicpondlife: how about clearing the one immediately ahead of the one that read_next_metadata writes into
18:24:58pRin533Question on TWiki: can we add images? If so, do they get uploaded or do should we put it on our own server? -TIA
18:25:02lowlightpondlife: no...it returns right above that (the 2nd return statement)
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18:26:50yipehas anyone else ever had a problem with rockbox on an ipod, that says that the drive is read-only?
18:26:50pondlifelowlight: what, in the dir_skip?
18:27:03yipeit won't let me put files on my own ipod
18:27:21pondlifeI was referring to the 2nd return statement I thought
18:27:46lowlightpondlife: oh sorry...yes after if (ci.new_track >= 0)
18:28:47pondlifeI need to put this debugging into a table with 2 columns!!
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18:29:46linuxstbyipe: What is telling you that?
18:30:15yipenautilus
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18:30:51amiconnyipe: That's not a rockbox problem.
18:31:12yipeI realise that it's not directly a rockbox problem, however it started when I installed rockbox
18:33:22linuxstbLinux will normally remount a drive readonly if it finds an error, so you could try checking the system logs to see if any error messages are there. Also, try running fsck.vfat on the partition.
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18:33:50lowlightpondlife: maybe coincidence, but QUEUE_LENGTH is 16 and there's "audio < Q_'s" between the 2 Q_AUDIO_CHECK_NEW_TRACKs...could it be a wrapping? (I don't understand the queue).
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18:36:36pondlifeMaybe.
18:37:27lowlightpondlife: but what's it buffering when there's no more tracks?
18:37:53pondlifeNot sure why it set filling back to be true...
18:38:06Slasheripondlife: hmm, if i read the code correctly, now audio_clear_track_entries() does not get called when overwriting old entries with new data?
18:38:24pondlifeMaybe not.
18:38:26pondlife!
18:38:30pondlifeI am working on it
18:38:32Slasherithat must happen
18:38:38pondlifeFor scrobbler?
18:38:42pondlifeor another reason
18:38:47Slasheriruntime stats etc. wont be collected otherwise
18:38:52pondlifeAh, those too
18:38:59pondlifeOK, they will be soon
18:39:04Slasherigood :)
18:39:43pondlifeWill it be ok if they only get called when the data is actually about to be overwritten?
18:39:43lowlightpondlife: actually maybe it's not really buffering as the debugf is before the if (!filling) in that case.
18:40:09pondlifei.e. potentially after 30 other tracks have played
18:40:20Slasheripondlife: for runtime stats, yes. As long as the data is still available when callbacks are called
18:40:26pondlifeYes
18:40:31Slasheripondlife: and only unbuffering callback needs to be called
18:40:42Slasheribuffering callback is no longer necessary with the new runtime-db
18:40:57pondlifeI will maintain that anyway. It's the clearing that is broken
18:41:07Slasherialso it's not needed to pass the state when we are calling last time
18:41:12Slasheriso that can be simplified a lot
18:41:18Slasheriok
18:41:18pondlifeYes, I hope so.
18:41:41pondlifeThe unbuffering is the cause of WPS displaying times like -8:-32
18:41:57Slasheriinteresting
18:42:34pondlifelowlight: I don't really have time to get into this right now I'm afraid
18:42:54pondlifeCarry on the good work, I need to get my own playback.c back together first though!
18:43:08Slasheripondlife: of course, please also enable runtime db and see if it works :)
18:43:24pondlifeI have never had it work. :(
18:43:37Slasheripondlife: there is another issue also: when playlist ends, last entry is not added to the db
18:43:44pondlifeMind you, I've not tried it for a while.
18:43:45Slasherihmm, what is the problem with it?
18:44:00pondlifeNo idea, I assumed it was "experimental"
18:44:12Slasheriit should work quite well
18:44:13pondlifeThis was some weeks ago, maybe
18:44:24Slasherithat "experimental" is only from the old code
18:44:29Slasheriand probably needs to be removed soon
18:44:33pondlifeDoes the last.fm feed come from it, or somewhere else?
18:44:41Slasherino, that's a separate thing
18:44:45pondlife:(
18:44:52Slasheriand i don't know how that works
18:45:03pondlifeHmm, don't they both collect runtime data?
18:45:15*pondlife knows nothing about it
18:45:21Slasheriyep, but little different way
18:45:45Slasheritagcache can only store the last playtime of track and other information
18:46:06Slasheriscrobbler stores just all playtimes of the last played tracks
18:46:48Slasherii think there are some direct hooks in playback.c for the scrobbler
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18:49:57pRin533peace everyone!
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18:59:11obopondlife: scrobbler uses the audio_set_track_changed_event() callback, and added the audio_prev_elapsed() function (to both playback.c and mpeg.c)
19:00
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19:09:21pondlifelostlogic: One more question?
19:09:40pondlifeIf you look at the comment /* Get track metadata if we don't already have it. */
19:10:26pondlifeUnder what scenario are we likely to already have the metadata? It would be much simpler to unbuffer the track slot at this point, just before we start to use it.
19:10:41Slasheriit's possible we already have it
19:10:58pondlifeHow come? We haven't buffered that track yet.
19:11:14Slasheriwhen last track is buffered and there is no space to buffer next track at all (for example too big codec), we still need to read the metadata of the next track for the wps
19:11:33Slasheriso the last free track entry slot is never used for buffering
19:11:39pondlifeAha
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19:38:47webguest32for a Archos recoder, is the HDD a parallel ATA, or will any ATA notebook drive be useable ?
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19:40:33*pondlife gives up for the day
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19:41:38webguest32noooo pondlife, dont give up, there's light at the end of the tunnel
19:42:01webguest32but, it could be a train
19:43:27***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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19:49:39amiconnwebguest32: I don't fully understand your question - archos recorders do use standard notebook drives, which are parallel ata
19:49:54amiconnOnly some very recent notebooks use 2.5" sata disks
19:50:57webguest32sometimes i see 2.5 drives which say EIDE or ATA/133, are these also ok to use for AJB's
19:51:01Kitt0shttp://iaudiophile.net/forums/showthread.php?t=11721
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19:52:15amiconnwebguest32: Yes they are. (parallel) ata is always backwards compatible.
19:52:31webguest32ah, thanks amiconn
19:52:43amiconnata/133 just means those disk support udma133 (which is irrelevant for rockbox or the usb bridge)
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19:53:40webguest32good, that gives me peace of mind when i go shopping for my replacement
19:53:45amiconnJust be aware that there is a capacity limit of 128GB (or 136GB in hdd manufacturer's terms)
19:54:08webguest32ok, max I was thinking of was 120 anyway
19:54:10linuxstbKitt0s: What do you mean by "approved by rockbox developers" ?
19:55:01Kitt0swell, i'v showed it Linus, he said there sohuldn't be any problem with it, and with messing around with the bootloader at all..
19:55:09webguest32thanks
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19:55:49*amiconn wonders how much this fancygfx bootloader slows down the boot process
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19:58:31Kitt0sdunno
19:58:32Kitt0sbut i like it
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20:29:24preglowhah
20:29:32preglowthat codec posted in the tracker looks really... special
20:30:36amiconn_Hmm, no barrywardell around...
20:30:55amiconn_Looks like he forgot to commit a crucial part for Sansa e200 sim support...
20:31:18amiconn_... tools/configure
20:31:27tucozi can build it here
20:31:56amiconn_Hmm, then why did this happen: http://www.rockbox.org/showlog.cgi?date=2006-10-26%2017%3A34%3A23&type=SanDisk%20Sansa%20e200%20-%20Simulator
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20:32:20tucozi saw that. but i have tried the sansa sim locally
20:32:52tucozworks fine
20:33:56amiconn_odd...
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20:34:04tucozmaybe the script on the buildserver is wrong.
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20:34:22tucozthe script that is set to start the sansa sim build
20:35:09amiconnHmm, sansa was added to configure in August....
20:39:14preglowanyone with golden ears that wanna test a dithering patch?
20:39:28Kasperledoes _flik_ come here regularly
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20:40:50preglowKasperle: i wouldn't say regularily, no
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20:41:24preglowregularly
20:41:44Kasperlei se
20:41:48Kasperlei see, even
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20:49:04habanaHi all
20:49:35*amiconn wonders what codec preglow was referring to
20:50:22habanaI tried to scan my sansa player but had bad results.
20:50:44habanaHow were scanned others players ?
20:52:14*linuxstb spots Space Invaders in the tracker...
20:52:24hcscool
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21:01:55linuxstbamiconn: I'm guessing preglow was referring to this: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/6247
21:03:08linuxstbHe couldn't have made it less Rockbox-friendly - C++ and floating point...
21:03:15*amiconn looked under patches...
21:04:55linuxstbI was curious to try it, but his .cpp file doesn't seem to compile with g++.
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21:19:58lexwhy i can't get the discovery podcast to show up on my ipod :(
21:20:27 Nick linuxstb_ is now known as linuxstb (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
21:21:38lexoh it's not a video podcast
21:22:04PaulJamwhat format is it and how did you put it on your player?
21:22:07linuxstbBecause you're not running Rockbox...?
21:22:14lex:)
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21:28:44*amiconn wonders what might cause those occasional freezes people are observing
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21:28:58amiconnI suspect a problem in the scheduler
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21:36:26luckzobo?
21:36:33luckzwhat does "Blind GuardianLiveImaginations From The Other Side5580S1161875601" actually say?
21:36:54luckzany info on how much of the song was played?
21:37:20luckzbecause I clearly remember that we listened to all of the actual song and only skipped some cheering by the crowd
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21:42:57preglowamiconn: yeah, me too
21:43:29***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21:44:52bluebrothera gui bootloader should reveal the "original" text messages upon a keypress when running imo.
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22:00
22:02:09 Join matsl [0] (n=matsl@1-1-4-2a.mal.sth.bostream.se)
22:07:02*preglow has a rockbox build with 4 bit sound :>
22:07:11psiborghahaha
22:07:20dan_aOn purpose?
22:07:23preglowindeed
22:07:29preglowtesting dither
22:07:31Xerionheh
22:07:40psiborghow horrible does that sound? :)
22:07:52*dan_a has the Rockbox logo showing on his Sansa
22:08:12Bagderwooo
22:08:27dan_a(hence the commit)
22:08:39preglowpsiborg: pretty nice, actually, thanks to the dither
22:08:44BagderI fixed the cvs build too so next commit should build the sim fine
22:09:03amiconnpreglow: Try 1bit ;)
22:09:41amiconnIt is possible to play recognisable music with 1 bit sound on a 3.5MHz Z80
22:10:36*dan_a remembers typing in a sampler program on his ZX Spectrum
22:10:37hcs'tis possible on a 1.79 MHz 6502, too
22:10:43psiborghehe how cool :)
22:11:02amiconnhcs: You mean C64?
22:11:12hcsamiconn: specifically I meant NES
22:11:15preglowamwill
22:11:17amiconnaha
22:11:31preglowgod, this adsl has such latency now
22:11:34amiconnhcs: Does the nes have some hardware support for sound playback?
22:11:44preglowyes
22:11:46*amiconn guesses it has
22:11:54preglowit's got a square/tri/noise generator
22:12:17amiconnThe ZX Spectrum doesn't have hardware support for that. Just a speaker hooked up to an i/o port, controlled by an isr
22:12:30hcsamiconn: it has DMA for 1 bit DPCM, but one or two games manually adjusted the value of to play PCM
22:12:42preglowamiconn: 2 bit works fine, 1 bit does not
22:12:45hcs*value of the volume reg
22:12:52preglowamiconn: i think the noise shaping could be better
22:14:55 Quit Ribs (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:14:58preglowhaha, 1 bit sound with a bit different noise shaping sounds "ok"
22:15:15psiborgwhat are you editing in your build?
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22:15:39pregloweh
22:15:43preglowcode?
22:16:17preglowi'm just enabling dither and playing with the dither mask and bias
22:18:59amiconnBagder: In some places we output a line that tells which makefile is currently running ("MAKE in blah")
22:19:36amiconnImho it would be better (and easier with my text output tweaks) if the actual makefile would output that text, instead of the place that calls it.
22:19:42amiconnWhat do you think?
22:20:00BagderI don't mind whichever method is used really
22:21:09 Quit webguest52 ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
22:22:08preglowmp3 and dither is still doesn't boost on 120
22:22:10preglow320kbps
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22:24:42*preglow discovers kraftwerk is excellent for dither testing :P
22:24:56weazle:-)
22:24:59preglowwIR sIND dIE rOBOTER
22:25:04weazlehehehe
22:25:22Rincewind^^
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22:42:15 Join shirour [0] (n=shirour@80.178.191.90.adsl.012.net.il)
22:43:11shirourhi all!
22:43:13shirour i'm trying to port rockbox to the m:robe 500i and i could use some help... anyone who can help me?
22:43:22Bagderwhat do you need?
22:43:44shirourwell, i have a boot loader and i have the drivers
22:43:52Bagdergreat!
22:43:59shirourit is based upon the dm320 (arm926j + tms320 from ti)
22:44:06BagderI know
22:44:34shirouri've managed to port mediOS and was able to get doom running
22:44:39 Join thick [0] (n=gr81@web.bce.net)
22:44:42shirour(see my wiki at http://mrobefan.elwiki.com/Main_Page )
22:44:53thickhello
22:44:59shirourand now i want to make a rockbox port
22:45:04thickwhat means 'Q' in equalizer?
22:45:57shirourbut - i don't know what to do next...
22:46:00 Join webguest14 [0] (i=5848fa34@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/session)
22:46:46Bagderdo you have a rockbox boot loader?
22:47:05dan_athick: The 'Q' is how wide or narrow the filter is.
22:47:09shirourmmm... no... i have something i wrote on my own -
22:47:22shirourit loads a file from the hd to a specific ram location
22:47:29shirourand then jumps to it
22:47:30Bagderusing FAT?
22:47:31thickhmm
22:47:33shirouryes
22:47:34thickwide?
22:47:39thickwhat do u mean
22:47:42Bagdershirour: that sounds like what a rockbox bootloader does
22:47:57shirourBagder: well - then that's great!
22:48:07Bagdershirour: then make sure you can build a Rockbox for your player and load that
22:48:33shirourBagder: here starts my problem... what should i do?
22:48:38Rincewindthick: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q_factor
22:48:55thickthnx
22:48:57Bagdershirour: well, if you just try right ahead you'll soon figure out lots of it
22:49:29Bagderit'll involve writing drivers for your HW
22:49:35shirourBagder: what i've tried to do is compile the Gigabeat firmware, since it is arm9 based
22:49:45peturshirour: is what you have now this 'exploited version'? I mean: you load the file through some hack, not at boot time?
22:49:47shirourBagder: I already have the drivers written in C
22:49:54*petur is reading that wiki
22:50:04dan_athick: A filter at 5kHz with a very high Q will only let signals of 5kHz through. A filter with a lower Q will let 5kHz +/- a bit through.
22:50:13shirourpetur: yes, but the mode allows me to do quite whatever i want
22:50:22webguest14hello... will rockbox support the archos 604 (wi-fi) in the future (sorry my english is not so good)
22:50:23Bagdershirour: then all you need is to work it all in at the appropriate places
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22:50:43Bagderwebguest14: if someone writes the support sure
22:50:56shirourBagder: what do you mean?
22:50:56Rincewindwebguest14: there are no plans yet, but you can start coding it
22:51:16Bagdershirour: a Rockbox port is a matter of making sure the correct drivers are built and used
22:51:55shirourBagder: well, i'm having trouble compiling it... when i try to compile the Gigabeat version it tells me :
22:51:56shirourld.real: error: no memory region specified for loadable section `.got'
22:52:11shirour(in the LD part... after it compiles everything)
22:52:13Bagderis it supposed to be buildable?
22:52:20thickRincewind, if i'm listening on high volume with high bass settings should i increase that Q for frequencies < 80 Hz ?
22:52:39Bagdershirour: the gigabeat port is not yet a working rockbox port you know
22:52:41shirourhave no idea... it's in your cvs and tools/configure so i thought it is
22:52:49markunshirour: the gigabeat build requires a patch
22:53:08Rincewindjust try it out if you can hear a difference, but q is disabled for high and low shelf, so it only works if you use the 2. band for bass freqs
22:53:09shirourBagder: mmm... that can explain it...
22:53:12shirourmarkun: what patch?
22:53:13thickah
22:53:14markunwe are working on it right now (in #gigabeat)
22:53:15thickthanx dan_a
22:53:21webguest14^^ something else?
22:53:23 Quit bluey- (Remote closed the connection)
22:54:19shirourwhat's the best way to add a new port for the source code? / is there a port i should base my code upon ?
22:54:21thickdan_a, what kind of music do you listen?
22:54:39Rincewindwebguest14: no ^^, if no developer owns the device then a port simply won't happen
22:54:48thickhave you got optimal EQ settings for electronic music, like breakz or d&b or smth like that?
22:55:02Bagdershirour: you seem to be doing it in a sensible way, you just need to understand what you're doing as well
22:55:26thickRincewind, 2 band?
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22:55:34shirourBagder: what do you mean? any directions?
22:55:37webguest14well... does someone of you know if there is an modified firmware?
22:55:47Bagdershirour: like fix the .lds file if it is wrong for you
22:56:09Bagderpossibly try the gigabeat patch markun mentioned
22:56:28Bagderalso
22:56:34Rincewindthick: newer versions of rockbox have a few presets with them. with 2. band I mean the 2. band from the top (not the first one and not the 3. and not the 4.....). Just read the manual if you want to know more basics
22:56:34dan_athick: I normally don't play with EQ unless there's something missing in the sound.
22:56:36 Join Richard_Gozinya [0] (n=chatzill@209-232-250-5.kagan.com)
22:56:45thickheh
22:56:51Bagdershirour: I'd REALLY recommend you post a full patch to the patch tracker early, to get possible more people involved
22:57:06Richard_Gozinyahello
22:57:14Bagderit should even be of interest to the creative crowds
22:57:19thickRincewind, oh.. i'm using 09/11 CVS version
22:57:21thick=))
22:57:37shirourBagder: you mean add a branch to the cvs?
22:57:41Bagderno
22:57:49BagderI mean make a diff and post that to the patch tracker
22:57:57Rincewindyou can also search the misticriver forums, some people have postet their settings there
22:58:03Richard_Gozinyai have a 4g ipod monochrome, i installed following the instructions in the pdf, now it wont go past the initial bootloader screen, and won't hook up to my PC via the usb cable, is my unit dead?
22:58:36thickanyway sound is gr8 with that Sennheiser IE4 hearphones
22:59:00shirourBagder: oh i see... thanks..!
22:59:10Rincewindmy advice is to play with the settings and use your ears, there is nothing more to it.
22:59:19thickoh
22:59:22thickk
22:59:36Bagdershirour: and do consider posting about your work in the rockbox forums, it too can attract new hackers
22:59:56dan_aRichard_Gozinya: Unlikely. Is there an error message on the bootloader screen? You should be able to reset your iPod by pressing Menu and Play together, and then hold Menu as it is booting to boot to the original firmware.
23:00
23:00:37 Part thick ("leaving")
23:00:41 Quit webguest14 ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
23:00:43shirourBagder: thanks, though i know what's going on in the mrobe community...
23:01:04Bagdershirour: sure, but _loads_ of people come to the rockbox forums looking for things like this
23:01:06Richard_Gozinyadan_a: ti give the line "rockbox boot loader" then down to the checksum line
23:01:15Richard_Gozinyadan_a: it won't restart now
23:01:26Bagdershirour: including people using other dm320-based devices
23:01:40Paul_the_NerdRichard_Gozinya: Flip the hold switch On then Off, then hold Menu+Select very carefully for 20 seconds
23:01:44Paul_the_NerdMake sure not to let your fingers wiggle
23:01:46 Join webguest14 [0] (n=crank@dslb-088-072-250-052.pools.arcor-ip.net)
23:01:51Paul_the_NerdIf it fails try the whole process 3 times, just to make sure.
23:02:24Richard_Gozinyagot it it reset, but still goes to the same screen
23:02:37shirourshirour: you're right... when i have something usefull i'll post it
23:02:42Richard_Gozinyanothing about an error, just to the checksum line
23:04:12Paul_the_NerdRichard_Gozinya: Reset into either the original firmware, or emergency disk mode then, for the time being
23:04:45Richard_Gozinyahow do i do it, it won't connect to my computer via usb anymore
23:05:47 Join linuxstb_ [0] (i=5343d4aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/session)
23:06:59dan_aRichard_Gozinya: Reset, and hold down "Menu" when you see the apple
23:07:11 Quit mirak (Success)
23:07:40Richard_Gozinyadan_a: cool
23:07:45dan_aIf that doesn't work, then hold down play and select when you see the apple for emergency disk mode
23:08:03Richard_Gozinyai'm in origional firmware now
23:08:16linuxstb_I've occasionally had some Rockbox builds freeze at the same spot on my Photo. Just try a different build.
23:08:20 Join midgey34 [0] (n=tjross@markely-164-75.reshall.umich.edu)
23:08:42webguest14can someone recommend me a player? it have to play videos, music, pictures...... should have a tv-out (maybe tv-in too)..
23:09:03tucozweazle, ipod video?
23:09:12Richard_Gozinyashould i just copy over the folder on my ipod to replace the build, or should i try to rebuild the bootloader also
23:09:13tucozwebguest14, I mean
23:09:39linuxstb_webguest14: Maybe the new Archos multimedia players if video is such a high priority.
23:10:26webguest14i do not like ipod.. don't know why..
23:11:25webguest14and it is important for me to do with it what ever i want...
23:11:51webguest14run some (open source) software..
23:12:05webguest14self programmend software or so...
23:12:28Rincewindtry iaudio x5
23:12:46Rincewindbut video in rockbox is not very usable at the moment
23:12:51linuxstb_Then the Archos devices with archopen.
23:13:03weazletucoz: ?
23:13:13tucozweazle, sorry. I used tab-completion
23:13:14 Quit Nimdae (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:13:14weazletucoz: nah... I have a nano 2nd gen
23:13:32webguest14such like the gp2x (handheld)... but smaller and with a bigger storage...
23:13:35tucozweazle, it was for webguest14
23:13:44weazletucoz: ok...
23:14:31Richard_Gozinyawill rockbox allow me to operate my ipod like a archos JBM? a hard drive player.
23:14:56 Join TCK [0] (n=hahano@bb-87-80-197-109.ukonline.co.uk)
23:15:50tucozRichard_Gozinya, if you mean that you just copy music to the player using a file manager, then you can
23:15:54tucozthat is how rockbox works
23:16:05Richard_Gozinyaawsome, i hate the ipod way
23:16:15tucozthe itunes way?
23:16:26blue_lizardsorry but why did you buy the hardware then?
23:16:34tucozto run rockbox?
23:16:36webguest14AND it would be great if i can connect every thing i want (more or less).. something like wi-fi (wlan) dongle or bluetooth and so.. and so on
23:16:58Richard_Gozinyahehe, i got the ipod for free
23:17:07Richard_Gozinyacause a dude thought it was dead
23:17:19blue_lizarddumb dude
23:17:20Richard_Gozinyathat's why i have the hardware
23:17:25Richard_Gozinyayea
23:17:43Richard_Gozinyai've had it for 6 months, just picked it up to mess with
23:17:43blue_lizardi am not using an ipot i use an iriver h340
23:17:46 Join lowlight [0] (i=c730180b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/session)
23:18:02z0delinuxstb: are you one of the x5 devlopers/
23:18:03blue_lizardbut i can say that rockbox does everything i want an mp3 player to do
23:18:26tucozwebguest14, maybe you can find something at http://dapreview.net/news.php
23:18:30blue_lizarda lot of thing the original software can not
23:18:46webguest14sorry i know it sounds a little bit strange... i come from germany an i have problems to phrase in english
23:19:06 Join Nimdae [0] (n=nimmeh@71-11-210-76.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com)
23:19:09blue_lizardwebguest14: what you want will probaly never implemented in rockbox
23:19:11linuxstb_z0de: No.
23:19:13tucozisn't there a linux dap that is quite popular in terms of hacking?
23:19:22blue_lizardthere is linux for such things
23:19:45z0delinuxstb: k
23:19:54z0demistaken identy
23:20:01webguest14hehe, i thought so.
23:20:01tucozhmm. gp2x is what it is called
23:20:01Bagdertucoz: possibly the archos ones then since they actually have SDKs
23:20:04blue_lizardan usb stack for the usb wifi stuff is complicated and an ip stack is more complicated
23:20:14lowlightlostlogic: are you around?
23:20:16tucozBagder, yes. but i was thinking of the gp2x
23:20:21blue_lizardthat all goes beyond rockbox
23:20:26*Bagder heads to bed instead
23:20:35tucozgoodnight
23:20:41Rincewindwebguest14: join #asdfg12 we can talk in german there
23:22:58Richard_Gozinyaawsome guys, thanks for the help
23:23:03Richard_Gozinyait boots up now
23:23:17Richard_Gozinyabut it doesn't see my songs that i loaded with itunes
23:23:24Richard_Gozinyado i need to reload them?
23:23:51hcsthat would be the easiest way
23:24:09Richard_Gozinyawhere do i put the files in the directory structure?
23:24:13dan_aRichard_Gozinya: Read in the manual about "Tag Cache"
23:24:18tucozRichard_Gozinya, you can use tag cache
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23:25:17 Quit perpleXa ("Leaving")
23:25:23hcsRichard_Gozinya: it doesn't really matter where you put the files, rockbox gives you a directory tree, there is also the Tag Cache which the others mentioned which is more like the iTunesDB
23:25:26 Quit mirak_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:25:52tucozRichard_Gozinya, http://download.rockbox.org/manual/rockbox-ipodvideo/rockbox-buildch4.html#x7-380004.2
23:29:53 Join werdwerdus [0] (i=Drew@drewdavis.student.iastate.edu)
23:30:23werdwerdusis there a bug with the 3rd gen scroll wheel?
23:32:11tucozvery few 3g users around i think. But, what is the problem?
23:32:38jhMikeShave an opt for x5 adc_scan that saves a few more percent boost and gains 4pfs normal cpu framerate but it's a bit scary :)
23:32:42lostlogiclowlight: belatedly yes sorta :-P
23:32:44 Join cybersense [0] (n=Miranda@131.203.101.29)
23:33:36*petur gets really scared when jhMikeS calls code scary
23:33:48werdwerdusthe scroll wheel only seems to work like once every 5-10 seconds when scrolling through menys
23:33:51lowlightlostlogic: think I found a problem with the audio queue
23:33:52werdwerdusmenus
23:34:01 Join webguest31 [0] (i=c9e0c002@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/session)
23:34:11dan_awerdwerdus: Are you playing music?
23:34:23werdwerdusnope i just installed rockbox
23:34:24jhMikeSheh...if it misses a pcf50606 accessory remove/insert interrupt you'll lose buttons but it seems to work
23:34:29Richard_Gozinyawell guys, thanks a bunch! it works perfect now!
23:35:13cybersenseHi everyone! Do you have any idea why remote no longe working on H120?
23:35:13 Quit webguest31 (Client Quit)
23:35:20werdwerdusi'm just trying to scroll through the menus to set it up so i'll like it
23:35:39linuxstb_jhMikeS: Did you test mpegplayer on the x5 after your i2c optimisations?
23:35:40dan_awerdwerdus: That's strange, it works fine for me. Is it OK in the original firmware?
23:36:00werdwerdusyeah i tried that and it works fine
23:36:12jhMikeSlinuxstb_: yes, you get a few more fps out of that. Unboosted operations benefit the most from that.
23:36:16werdwerdusshould i try to reinstall or something?
23:36:25lostlogiclowlight: do tell
23:36:38 Join TerrorByte [0] (i=4889bb7a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/session)
23:36:49TerrorByteSo..
23:37:06TerrorByteI see no one's taken an interest in my feature request (strafing in Doom...)
23:37:06 Quit amigan (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:37:13lowlightlostlogic: it seems as though at then end of a playlist there are repeated calls to codec_advance_buffer_counters() which then queues a lot of unnessary Q_AUDIO_FILL_BUFFER requests
23:37:17TerrorBytePaul, you around?
23:37:30 Join meohmeohmy [0] (n=chatzill@70.89.218.101)
23:37:39meohmeohmyurp
23:37:45TerrorByteQuestion...
23:37:49lostlogiclowlight: ahrm yeah, that makes sense
23:37:57TerrorByteHow come the equalizer for SRS WOW is not in Rockbox.
23:37:58Paul_the_NerdTerrorByte: Remember that you made a feature request that only affects a very limited range of players, that few of the people who program for the project have.
23:38:05lostlogicneed to make sure the queue gets emptied at an appropriate time.
23:38:13bluebrotherTerrorByte, do you really expect a feature request getting worked on in only a couple of days, especially for a plugin?
23:38:24markunjhMikeS: I posted on iaudiophile.net about the rockbox improvement, but it looks like they are not interested...
23:38:24TerrorByteWell it's a very small feature too.
23:38:24Paul_the_NerdTerrorByte: SRS WOW is both patented, and horribly distorts the sound. There's no interest from programmers, and even if there was, it couldn't legally be done
23:38:27 Quit meohmeohmy (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:38:30TerrorByteAw...
23:38:31 Join amigan [0] (i=dcp1990@unaffiliated/amigan)
23:38:33TerrorByteIt's patented?
23:38:33bluebrotherTerrorByte, because srs wow is some closed thingy
23:38:34TerrorByteDamn.
23:38:35lowlightlostlogic: the queues only have 16 slots and sometimes i've seen > 30 Q_AUDIO_FILL_BUFFER's queued
23:38:38TerrorByteI see.
23:38:42jhMikeSThe driver is efficient since removing scanning at HZ rate and only reading batter once a second doesn't make a huge jump in performance but it's worth maybe 6% or so boost
23:38:46TerrorByteAbout strafing in Doom.
23:38:49 Join meohmeohmy [0] (n=chatzill@70.89.218.101)
23:38:53TerrorBytePaul boasts its gonna take him 5 mins to do it.
23:39:05TerrorByteI say Paul should be forced to do it!
23:39:09TerrorByte;)
23:39:10Paul_the_NerdTerrorByte: If nobody with the player wants to do it, it's impossible for anyone who does to test it. Plus it's an irrelevant feature. Gaming is not the focus of Rockbox. Feel free to learn a little C and try to figure it out yourself, though
23:39:26TerrorByteI did try to figure it out myself.
23:39:33lostlogiclowlight: makes sense
23:39:36TerrorByteDidn't have much success though :)
23:39:36 Quit webguest14 ("Verlassend")
23:39:59lowlightlostlogic: that creates problems because the read/write indices in the queue are unsigned ints that are masked...so they start wrapping
23:39:59Paul_the_NerdDid you try to learn some C first, or did you just look at the code and try to guess?
23:40:05TerrorByteBoth?
23:40:09lostlogicone option is not to put those events on the queue if playlist_end is true, because it clearly cannot process them
23:40:16TerrorByteI do have SOME knowledge of C.
23:40:23TerrorByteWell in any case...
23:40:28TerrorByteThat's one thing off of my checklist.
23:40:38TerrorByte-SRS WOW is gone..
23:40:59 Quit TerrorByte (Client Quit)
23:41:01 Join TerrorByte [0] (i=4889bb7a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/session)
23:41:07TerrorByteGot disconnected.
23:41:15TerrorByteAnyways.......
23:41:17Paul_the_NerdTerrorByte: It should be pretty simple then. I think strafing is supported on some players, in which case just look at how it's done for them, and copy the keymapping replacing it with an | of the two buttons you want to combine, that you've already verified can be combined.
23:41:41TerrorByteI started to look at the source files for Doom.
23:41:47TerrorByteAnd I just got lost in there.
23:41:56Paul_the_NerdTerrorByte: There should only be one file that needs to be changed
23:41:59TerrorByteYeah.
23:42:11 Quit Richard_Gozinya ("Chatzilla 0.9.75 [Firefox 1.5.0.7/2006090918]")
23:42:14TerrorByteSo SRS wow is impossible...
23:42:14 Quit TeaSeaLancs (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:42:19TerrorByteSo all that's left.
23:42:21lowlightlostlogic: yes...I put that in codec_advance_buffer_counters it doesn't queue those events
23:42:23TerrorByteIs strafing in Doom.
23:42:54TerrorByteAnd that sound video thing which...... *mumble* *mumble*
23:42:54Paul_the_NerdTerrorByte: i_vdieo.c
23:42:59Paul_the_NerdTerrorByte: i_video.c even
23:43:07lostlogiclowlight: commit away... or do you think there's a larger more systematic problem we need to address?
23:43:08TerrorBytei_video.c?
23:43:13Paul_the_NerdThat's the file you need
23:43:21Paul_the_NerdWhere keymaps are defined and mostly handled
23:43:25TerrorByteI see.
23:43:28TerrorByteMan, you should be doing this.
23:43:32***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:43:51Paul_the_NerdIt looks like strafing isn't enabled for any players though. But I think there's a patch on the tracker for iPods that does it, maybe. Might check that
23:43:58 Join mirak [0] (n=mirak@AAubervilliers-152-1-41-239.w83-114.abo.wanadoo.fr)
23:44:11Paul_the_NerdTerrorByte: Here's the problem: I don't care about Doom. I use my player for music. That is where my interest lies.
23:44:15 Quit coob (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:44:18Paul_the_NerdI should not be doing this, simply because I have no real interest in it.
23:44:23TerrorByteMP3 player for MUSIC!?!?
23:44:25TerrorByteUnheard of!
23:44:43lowlightlostlogic: those events are actually ignored when they are processed because of it checks playlist_end there, but I think the overloading of the queue is the cause of the problem
23:46:02TerrorByteOkay I'm looking at the file.
23:46:11lowlightI've seen cases where when there's less than 16 FILL_BUFFER requests and everything is ok...just problems when there's more.
23:46:41Paul_the_NerdTerrorByte: As I said, the code's not really up front there for strafing, so there's a little more work than I thought there would be.
23:47:03TerrorByteYeah.
23:47:06TerrorByteLooks like it.
23:47:44TerrorByteWell I'll 'look' at this later.
23:47:55TerrorByteBy which I mean literally look and do nothing else.
23:47:59TerrorByteLater.
23:48:10scorcheTerrorByte: if you had followed Paul_the_Nerd's advice about looking at flyspray, you wouldnt be having this issue
23:48:11 Part meohmeohmy
23:48:12lowlightlostlogic: I can't do anymore until tomorrow.
23:48:20TerrorByteI did post this on flyspray.
23:48:30TerrorByteNo one really seems to give a damn.
23:48:33TerrorByteAnyways, gotta go for now.
23:48:39TerrorByteBe back later.
23:48:41*scorche sighs
23:48:49TerrorByteHuh?
23:48:55TerrorByte-_-;
23:49:01Paul_the_NerdTerrorByte: I said LOOK at flyspray, not POST
23:49:01 Quit TerrorByte ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
23:49:42scorchewell, his loss
23:50:00 Quit lostnihilist ("Leaving")
23:51:08Paul_the_NerdI'm still betting if I concentrated on it, I could hack together strafing in less than 5 minutes. ;)
23:51:40 Part lowlight
23:51:52scorchehehe...but what i was saying is that there is a patch on the tracker that was synced the 10th of this month
23:52:10peturlol
23:52:27Paul_the_Nerdscorche: Yeah, that has strafing on iPod, he wants it for H10, but then he just has to replace the scrollwheel actions with the button combination and he's done
23:52:39scorcheexactly
23:53:20Paul_the_NerdI may be cruel, but I just enjoy telling people "I won't do it because I don't care." Does that make me a bad person?
23:53:53scorcheyes...horrible...now start on every single feature request now!
23:53:56dan_aNot when they tell you that you should do it!
23:54:15 Quit werdwerdus ()
23:56:15*Paul_the_Nerd contemplates making the "Search" button animated, and really annoying
23:56:22scorchehehe
23:56:44Rincewindit's ok to not care, but I don't like "I don't care, so I am against it" (not very much related to this issue and no offence meant)
23:57:05Paul_the_NerdRincewind: I'll never say "I don't care, so I am against it."
23:57:12Paul_the_NerdBy definition, if I'm against something, I do care. :-P
23:57:15scorchePaul_the_Nerd: also, did you want to include the site search box/button on the sidebar of the forums like it is on every other page?
23:57:37 Part tucoz ("Leaving")
23:57:40Paul_the_Nerdscorche: No, I intentionally removed that.
23:57:47Paul_the_NerdI'm afraid people will think it'll search the forums, which it won't.
23:57:55Rincewindmaybe you care about too many things ^^
23:58:04scorchealright...i was wondering about that and if it would be confus..yeah
23:58:29Paul_the_NerdRincewind: I care about Rombox working again some day without having to cut too many things out. :-P
23:58:37 Join Davide-NYC [0] (n=chatzill@user-12hdtm5.cable.mindspring.com)
23:58:41scorchejust one! =P
23:58:56Paul_the_Nerdscorche: For *now*. Not if some people had their way with feature creep. ;)

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