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#rockbox log for 2006-10-27

00:00:04Paul_the_Nerdpsiborg: It's a feature for the archos players
00:00:13scorcheRincewind: actually, i ifdefed it out..all you need to do is comment out the #define HAVE_TAGCACHE in the corresponding config files
00:00:23 Quit bbroke ("Chatzilla 0.9.75 [Firefox 1.5.0.7/2006090918]")
00:00:26Paul_the_NerdRuns Rockbox from ROM instead of RAM, gives, what, 20%ish more audio buffer space
00:00:49RincewindI don't even have an archos
00:00:51psiborgah cool :)
00:00:59scorche~10 actually
00:01:09RincewindPaul_the_Nerd: are you still using your archos regularily?
00:01:10psiborgtagcache is also still giving me problems
00:01:10Paul_the_NerdRincewind: That's my concern. A lot of people don't have one, so they don't care, feeling the old units can be left behind.
00:01:16 Quit PaulJam (".")
00:01:29scorcheRincewind: i am
00:01:31Paul_the_NerdRincewind: I have to tell you, the Archos has the best SNR of all my players.
00:01:40 Join TerrorByte [0] (i=4889bb7a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/session)
00:02:06Paul_the_NerdRincewind: If I want to listen to music in a quiet setting, I will almost invariably choose it.
00:02:50RincewindI don't think they should be left behind, but I if you have to jump through hoops to get a feature working on it then my opinion is to include it for other players and do the jumping when someone has time to do it
00:03:01TerrorByteSo... Paul.
00:03:10TerrorByteSuppose I do something and get strafing done.
00:03:16TerrorByteHow do I compile it?
00:03:18Rincewindgood SNR, you get me tempted to look for one on ebay
00:03:18TerrorByteWhat's the link again?
00:03:37TerrorByteOr the name for that compiling guide?
00:03:46scorcheTerrorByte: you might want to check out the wiki page SimpleGuideToCompiling
00:03:56TerrorByteAh, yes, that's it.
00:04:46Paul_the_NerdRincewind: Well, you can always just use the optical out on an H120 to decent gear, but that's not portable in most cases.
00:05:24Rincewindmy line out jack is broken... :-(
00:06:03Paul_the_NerdRincewind: My concern is more that people want these really tiny convenience features, like Left to WPS, that saves them from having to bloody move their thumb an inch and a half, and don't care at all that while it's nice for them being lazy, it actually has a noticeable negative impact for Archos users.
00:06:16TerrorByteHey, where can I get skins for my H10?
00:06:18Paul_the_NerdAnd as an option even more impact, but that's necessary for ease of use of Blind users.
00:06:24TerrorByteI can't find the page with the .wps files.
00:06:47Paul_the_NerdWpsGallery
00:06:57RincewindI'm against LEFT to wps, too. It is clearly against the design of rockbox
00:07:06scorcheTerrorByte: there is a way of searching the wiki ya know...
00:07:29Paul_the_NerdRincewind: That's the main reason I'm against it, but the other reasons I feel have more hope of convincing people just because they're more practical and less an aspect of preference. ;)
00:07:55Rincewindbut I just can't understand why people are against my customizable rec button patch... (which doesn't has an effect on archos at all, btw)
00:08:09 Join [TCK] [0] (n=hahano@bb-87-80-197-109.ukonline.co.uk)
00:08:11scorchethat reminds me..i still havent put new instructions for rombox on the wiki
00:08:14TerrorByteWell whatever.
00:08:17TerrorByteI won't get this done.
00:08:19TerrorByteLater.
00:08:30 Quit lini (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:08:30 Quit TerrorByte ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
00:08:34Rincewindanyway, I don't want to whine now, off to bed in a few minutes
00:08:46Paul_the_NerdRincewind: I'm only against it in the context that I think the record button should have static uses, *and* that since my Archos *does* have recording that one of the soft buttons should be remapped as 'record'
00:10:55 Quit ender` (" When I was a child... We had a quick-sand box in the backyard... I was an only child... eventually.")
00:11:04Rincewindwe have customizable wps and custom tagnavi.config, which is really complex, so I don't see why having a simple custom button with predifined choices is a problem for people - it's custom, they don't even have to use it!
00:11:44 Quit shirour (Remote closed the connection)
00:12:01*petur mis-uses the record button on his h340 to switch on the backlight
00:12:09Davide-NYCOK, I justy got here and don;t know how far along this discussion is, but as a dialy user of Rockbox Recording I'd like to say that a Long press taking us the the WRS screen makes Ton of sense.
00:12:22Davide-NYCWhat is the jist here?
00:12:26Davide-NYC(please)
00:12:49Paul_the_NerdRincewind: Because Rockbox doesn't have customizable buttons is all. There's no *strong* argument for them, and saving the code space is a good enough argument against in my mind. There's just really not that many things that *need* to be on a button
00:13:06*Davide-NYC couldn't get Rincewind's patch to 'patch' as of last night.
00:13:08Paul_the_NerdI think that you can get 90% of the desired functionality of that button without making it customizable.
00:13:40Davide-NYClike hard coding long-rec to the WRS from essentially all screens?
00:13:45Paul_the_NerdLong Rec from anywhere gets the WRS. Short rec in filetree is Queue, Short+Play is Insert, Short in WPS is Playlist, Short+Play is whatever the next most wanted feature is.
00:14:08Paul_the_NerdI think that covers almost the whole range of commonly desired uses for it, without adding the complexity of a customizable button.
00:14:32RincewindDavide-NYC: I submit an update soon. I didn't have conflicts sofar.
00:15:03Davide-NYCcool, I've never used your patch so I wanted to check it out so that i could be "fully up to speed" on the issue. :-)
00:15:09RincewindPaul_the_Nerd: code size is not an argument here, it can be ifdefed out for everything else but irivers
00:15:32Davide-NYCRincewind: what is the objection to Paul's solution?
00:15:48Davide-NYC(trying to get the arguments straight)
00:16:14Paul_the_NerdRincewind: Code size is always an argument. One: It affects available audio buffer space. Two: Because Archoses have recordings, it should be considered as behaviour for one of the F buttons.
00:16:31Rincewindthe objection is: I want a short press rec to show the current playlist and a long press of rec to show the themes and play+rec to go to recording screen - everybody wants different things
00:17:00Davide-NYChmm
00:17:09Paul_the_NerdRincewind: The idea is that Rockbox's behaviour should be as consistent across platforms as possible. If we're mapping a button to the Recording screen, it should likely be so on the Archoses as well
00:17:42Davide-NYCI think a Twiki page or forum thread where everyone can post their preference and then a decision is made might be the best way to go.
00:17:52Rincewindarchos have their own f3 quickmenu...
00:17:59Paul_the_NerdI think "being good, but not perfect for everyone, but with better battery life" is favourable to "having a customizable button many people won't change, that slightly decreases everyone's battery life" anyway.
00:18:29Davide-NYCForum post?
00:19:04Paul_the_NerdRincewind: Archoses are also the only player with an F3 button. Which is the one I feel could be considered as a Recording button if that path is followed.
00:19:10RincewindI think (only my opinion) that many people like my patch and use it very much and there are other things commited on a daily basis that use more code, my patch is rather small, after all
00:19:21Paul_the_NerdSmaller does NOT make it better.
00:19:27Paul_the_NerdWhy does everyone always argue that it's small so it must be okay?
00:19:35Paul_the_NerdSeriously, small things add up
00:19:37Rincewindno but smaller and working is better then bigger and working
00:19:40jhMikeSI think Monday or Tuesday is the day of reckoning
00:19:42Paul_the_NerdIt's better to avoid extra code whenever and wherever possible.
00:19:58Davide-NYCfor the big rec patch!
00:20:01jhMikeSyup
00:20:10Rincewindtell this the last.fm people...
00:20:17Davide-NYCI predict that some feces will stike a ventilator big time for some targets
00:20:20 Quit TCK (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
00:20:23Paul_the_NerdRincewind: And last.fm couldn't really be done in a simpler way.
00:20:26jhMikeSI should have my unit then and can do the final verification
00:20:41Rincewindif last.fm is down in a few months we have to throw it out again...
00:20:41Paul_the_NerdSeriously, I don't like some of the existing button mapping in Rockbox, but I don't argue for all the buttons to be remappable in software.
00:20:48jhMikeSDavide-NYC: Should only target iRiver and iAudio
00:21:02RincewindI don't want to remap all buttons
00:21:04Davide-NYCOh, please strike my comment from the record then!
00:21:06Paul_the_NerdYou want to remap one.
00:21:07jhMikeSI test compiled on bunches of others
00:21:13Paul_the_NerdBut why does it *need* to be remappable?
00:21:36Paul_the_NerdExplain to me what makes a minor amount of customization worth adding more sand to the pile, and further decreasing a constantly shrinking audio buffer?
00:21:45Paul_the_NerdOther than "it's convenient"
00:21:46 Quit mirak (Remote closed the connection)
00:22:05jhMikeSDavide-NYC: never got a chance to try the SPDIF?
00:22:11Davide-NYCno :-(
00:22:15RincewindI want to map a button that isn't used, but this argument doesn't get anywhere now
00:22:19Davide-NYChold on I make a call now
00:22:25Paul_the_NerdRincewind: It isn't used *yet*
00:22:38Paul_the_NerdRincewind: If it were already assigned, would you not be in favour of it any more?
00:22:38Davide-NYCYou both have valid arguments.
00:22:52 Quit Criamos ("( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.03 :: www.XLhost.de )")
00:22:55jhMikeSI think on fm radio the long rec press should hit the rec screen as a shortcut around the menu
00:23:11RincewindjhMikeS: true
00:23:24Rincewindi tried it but stopped before I got it working
00:23:25jhMikeSOr I'll figure a way to combine the screens
00:23:49dan_aI think that there's a good argument for a customisable button, since people use Rockbox in such different ways
00:23:50Davide-NYCGuys, everyone agrees the Rec button should go to the Rec screen on Long press right?
00:24:01jhMikeSzup
00:24:04Rincewindno
00:24:07Paul_the_NerdDavide-NYC: Not Rincewind
00:24:16jhMikeSonly on the radio screen
00:24:24Davide-NYChmm, I thought I had a half a solution
00:24:41Paul_the_NerdRincewind: If settings can be found that will work for the vast majority of users, why can't you just make yourself a custom build, instead of demanding on costing audiobuffer from the majority who would be okay with it as is?
00:24:53Davide-NYCWhat if Rincewind is the only person that wants that particular behavior?
00:25:04Davide-NYCI think a poll of some sort is in order.
00:25:08Davide-NYCseriousl
00:25:10Davide-NYCy
00:25:18Paul_the_NerdI think a non-democratic decision from the higher ups is in order. :-P
00:25:19Rincewindof course i will always make my custom build, whatever is done to the rec button in the future
00:25:27*jhMikeS isn't sure what Rincewind's preference is in all the flood *multitasking atm*
00:25:28Davide-NYCof course
00:25:49scorcheRincewind: and that is the beauty of open-source =)
00:25:58Davide-NYCyeah, too cool.
00:26:37Rincewindmy preference is to have a quick way to enter the playlist screen and to set themes (not visual themes, configs) and maybe to enter the record screen. Since this is rather specific, I made it an option among others
00:26:47Davide-NYCWhy just throw an email at the dev list explaining all of this and see what comes back?
00:27:03Paul_the_NerdRincewind: Make a /configs folder. or better #configs. Two pressed from WPS to get to it.
00:27:09jhMikeSWhy is theme changing a thing that needs rapid access?
00:27:13Paul_the_NerdRincewind: At no code cost to me.
00:27:46Paul_the_NerdRincewind: Meanwhile, as I've said, I'm in favour of making a shortcut to the current playlist from WPS as part of the Record button's functionality, since that would benefit almost all users.
00:27:48RincewindPaul_the_Nerd: I will be happy with your proposal for the record button
00:27:53jhMikeSok...didn't read well...heh not visual themes
00:28:10Davide-NYCSweet!
00:28:11Paul_the_NerdIf they aren't visual themes, calling them "Themes" is pretty silly.
00:28:12Rincewindit is better then nothing and it makes sense for most users
00:28:28Davide-NYCYay! Let's get it committed! \o/
00:28:29Paul_the_NerdA theme is actually defined by us as being a config file that changes certain things, limited to WPS, Font, and a few others, and not related to sound settings.
00:28:34*Davide-NYC lokos around helplessly
00:28:52Paul_the_NerdThat pretty much fosters more confusion in a discussion if you're calling settings configs "Themes"
00:28:56jhMikeSPaul_The_Nerd: The long rec button is already used for the quickscreen on x5 and short for menu
00:29:08Paul_the_NerdjhMikeS: The X5 is short on buttons?
00:29:13jhMikeSI guess
00:29:15Davide-NYCOh dear.
00:29:21Davide-NYClol
00:29:25Paul_the_NerdjhMikeS: I'm guessing it doesn't have the A-B button that the iRivers have.
00:29:25Rincewindfor me a theme is a config that I put in the themes folder for convenience (this shows a lack of usability in the rockbox config architecure, imho)
00:29:39Paul_the_NerdRincewind: You can run Configs from the filetree
00:29:41jhMikeSNot that it matters, players with more buttons can have more button functions as far as I'm concerned
00:29:52Paul_the_NerdRincewind: Please use the COMMON definition of themes rather than your own personal incorrect one
00:29:57Rincewindok ok
00:30:07jhMikeSI don't like strapping everything else down because some player is short
00:30:14Paul_the_NerdRincewind: Also, didn't you know about the "Browse Config Files" options under Manage Settings?
00:30:15Davide-NYCtrue
00:30:22Paul_the_NerdIt's actually the exact same number of button presses from the top of the menu
00:30:57Rincewindjes, browse configs is essentially the same, I know, but themes has it's own folder in the tree
00:31:05Davide-NYCPaul_the_Nerd: when you have time please take a lok at my repy to the Recording Menu Overhaul.
00:31:14Rincewindthe whole theme thing is not the point here, really
00:31:31Paul_the_NerdRincewind: Folder in the tree?
00:31:36Paul_the_NerdRincewind: What does that have to do with anything?
00:32:12Rincewindforget it, my english is not very good and it doesn't add to the discussion if I try to explain this now
00:32:21jhMikeSheh...lets all just have 1bit mono displays for everything then and make the SWCODEC play only mp3 :)
00:32:21Paul_the_NerdEither way all you see is a list of .cfg files
00:33:21 Quit obo ("bye")
00:34:03jhMikeSYes, themes have a special directory just like rocks do
00:34:25RincewindI think I need to bribe a dev to commit my patch late at night and then everybody gets used to it...
00:34:40*jhMikeS needs some cash
00:34:51*Rincewind is a blank student
00:34:52jhMikeS:)
00:34:55Paul_the_NerdI just don't see the benefits outweighing the costs, is all
00:35:13Paul_the_NerdIt costs *everyone* and benefits the minority who wouldn't be satisfied with the default mappings we could use.
00:35:23Paul_the_NerdThough I'll admit the Rec button being in use on X5 is a bit of a problem.
00:35:38RincewindIf I had to tell you everytime I don't see the benefits of something outweigh the costs...
00:36:08Rincewindit won't work for x5 or ipods, they simply don't have enough buttons
00:36:11Davide-NYCDude, games, games, games.
00:36:16Paul_the_NerdGames don't cost.
00:36:20jhMikeSPaul_the_Nerd: Just map it for other players
00:36:27Paul_the_NerdI don't know how many times I have to explain that to people
00:36:36Davide-NYCDeveloper time?
00:36:51Paul_the_NerdDavide-NYC: You think there's a pool it depletes?
00:36:59 Quit petur ("Zzzzz")
00:37:02jhMikeSI have an x5 and will not fret if every possible shortcut isn't available
00:37:04Davide-NYCI know, people work on what they want to work on.
00:37:04Paul_the_NerdIf a developer's not writing something he *wants* to write, he's probably doing something else for another project.
00:37:39Paul_the_NerdjhMikeS: Well, one of my biggest concerns is the possibility for consistency across platforms, so I'd like to see a way to try to resolve this, or at least improve the potential situation.
00:37:42Davide-NYCI'm kind of joking.
00:37:42*jhMikeS was originally put up to do the recording stuff
00:38:10Davide-NYCjhMikeS: I left messages with both engineers at the studio
00:38:20jhMikeSPaul_The_Nerd: Well, obviously not all platforms are capable of have all things
00:38:21Davide-NYCIf I get a call back I can go there tonight and do testing
00:38:34Rincewindthe devices are different hardware wise, so full consistency is a dream anyway
00:38:47Davide-NYCall samplerates, all bit depths in bot mono and stereo?
00:38:54jhMikeSIf my code is used on a famous album do I get my name is the "Special Thanks" section?
00:39:08Davide-NYCSure, since there is no chance of that.
00:39:15jhMikeSDavide-NYC: abuse it
00:39:26Davide-NYCwhat *should* it accept?
00:39:41Davide-NYCI'm not even sure what these guys can output.
00:39:55dan_aCan someone explain to me how disks work? Specifically how blocks and sectors are related
00:40:22Rincewindok, I'm off
00:40:35Rincewindthe discussion can go back to normal now :-)
00:41:26Davide-NYCI enjoyed it very much, thanks
00:42:20amiconndan_a: What do you mean with 'blocks'?
00:43:41RincewindDavide-NYC: you can try to get a result for the record button, but I am not very optimistic about it that any new code that doesn't benefit archos players gets aroung Llorean. It is very nice that using a custom build isn't much harder than using plain rockbox at least.
00:44:03amiconnHarddisks have sectors, and they can be addressed in 2 different way. Either the (practically obsolete) cylinder-head-sector addressing, or LBA (linear block addressing)
00:44:14Rincewind(doesn't look like my last statement made any sense)
00:44:25Rincewindbye
00:44:33 Quit Rincewind ("Bye")
00:45:01dan_aamiconn: According to MrH's document, I tell the Sansa disk controller how many blocks I want to read. I'm trying to work out how to connect that to the ata_read_sectors routine
00:45:19amiconnAh, so you're talking about flash, not hdd...
00:45:33dan_aI am
00:45:44amiconnIirc the sansa flash uses sd card protocol, which is very similar to mmc
00:46:08 Join pagefault [0] (i=pagefaul@pdpc/supporter/active/pagefault)
00:46:14dan_aIt does (according to MrH)
00:46:30preglowi will kill and maim my internet provider
00:46:39amiconnmmc cards (and sd cards) use blocks
00:46:55amiconnA block usually equals a sector, but not always
00:47:22amiconnI don't know the exact details of sd (it's a closed standard), but it depends on the capacity
00:47:58amiconnMost controllers (e.g. usb->sd/mmc bridges) emulate disk sectors for the os
00:48:10amiconn...where the sectors are 512 bytes per definition
00:48:32amiconnHowever, mmc blocks can have 512, 1024 or 2048 bytes
00:48:56bluebrotheris the sd standard completely closed?
00:49:04amiconnSo essentially one block equals either 1, 2 or 4 sectors
00:50:14amiconnThe driver needs to do the block->sectors split and sectors->block assembly as necessary
00:50:31amiconnThe Ondio MMC driver does this (firmware/ata_mmc.c)
00:51:15dan_aThanks, I think I understand now.
00:51:54amiconnAhem, firmware/drivers/ata_mmc.c
00:54:00Davide-NYCrincewind on the phone will be back in a sec
00:57:09 Join NickDe [0] (n=nicholas@ip68-14-79-70.ri.ri.cox.net)
01:00
01:01:50 Quit dpro (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:02:04 Quit bluebrother ("Leaving")
01:04:36 Quit matsl (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:05:46 Quit cybersense (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:07:59preglowhttp://www.pvv.org/~thomj/rockbox/dithering.patch
01:08:10preglowdithering patch for those who want to try. can't say i hear any difference myself...
01:10:22jhMikeSpreglow: I'll have a listen shortly for sure
01:14:15jhMikeSpreglow: Is it just for the 24 FLAC files?
01:14:26jhMikeS24 bit rather
01:14:51preglowjhMikeS: it's for everything
01:14:57preglowif you turn dither on in sound settings, everything is dithered
01:15:03preglowand most formats will benefit
01:15:18preglowsince most of our codecs spit out sound at more precision than 16 bits
01:16:01 Quit EspeonEefi ("Leaving")
01:17:47pregloweven if not so anyway, subsequent processing steps like eq and crossfeed will add new precision which will benefit from dithering
01:17:49jhMikeSThat adds noise at the minimum level to spread rounding errors? White or something more blue?
01:17:54preglowwhite
01:18:35preglowwhat dithering basically does is make the noise that quantisation gives completely independent of the signal
01:18:51preglowso you'll always hear pure noise compared to the signal dependent distortion you'd have if you didn't dither
01:19:07preglowwe also do noise shaping, which pushes more of this noise up to the parts of the spectrum you can't hear as well
01:20:39 Join Soap [0] (n=chatzill@165.236.11.194)
01:20:50*jhMikeS needs a blue noise generator for a dithering experiment for images
01:20:56preglowwhat is blue noise? :>
01:21:27Soapditto
01:21:40jhMikeSNoise without the low frequency components. I suppose purple noise is even higher in the spectrum. I don't know the specific power distribution though.
01:21:56Soapwhite = completely random? pink = pseudoramdom evenly spread across spectrum?
01:22:35markunGigabeat update! http://130.89.160.166/Gigabeat/firstboot.jpg
01:22:39jhMikeSIt might be rather like flipping brown noise
01:23:24Soapsweet markun
01:23:32linuxstb_markun: Nice. Does that mean function calls are now working?
01:23:40markunyes, they are
01:23:43midgey34nice work
01:23:45preglowSoap: the colour has to do with the power spectrum of the noise
01:24:04preglowSoap: white noise has equal power in all frequency bands
01:24:04jhMikeSpink just has a certain rolloff from zero HZ and brown even more so iirc
01:24:11preglowSoap: pink noise has less high frequency content
01:24:14preglowbrown noise less still
01:24:42markunpink tries to have an equal amount of noise per octave
01:24:57SoapThen why do those silly 40 band EQs adventised in PopularScience and the ilk come with pink noise generators for calibration?
01:25:07zepink is like "perceptually equal" rather than white's "physically equal" right?
01:25:13Soapahh
01:25:41Soapmarkun: and ze answered it, thanks.
01:26:03preglowze: no, that'd be something called grey noise
01:26:10zeoh
01:26:13zethats what i read on wikipedia
01:26:17preglowze: which is perceptually weighted white noise
01:26:20zeor was it the pro-audio wiki
01:27:03jhMikeSwouldn't grey noise be dimmer white noise? :P
01:27:07zehehe
01:27:48 Join TerrorByte [0] (i=4889bb7a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/session)
01:29:45preglowheh
01:29:58preglowcolour is kind of arbitrarily chosen for audible noise
01:30:16preglowjhMikeS: anywho, didya try it out?
01:30:35zei thought it was chosen as being analogously coresponding
01:31:02preglowyeah, my wording is a bit off
01:31:13jhMikeSgetting ready. Was doing some changes myself on the build i'll use and that must compile too
01:31:41zethus white noise with a falloff towards the high-end being pink, like white light with a falloff towards the high-end would be
01:32:57jhMikeShmmmm...ie put trailing crs when I saved it! at least it strips them
01:33:36 Quit TerrorByte ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
01:34:14jhMikeScompiling....
01:34:41preglowjhMikeS: don't expect to be able to hear any difference...
01:35:17jhMikeSDo I need any other options (eq, crossfeed) enabled or does it run with pure playback?
01:35:49preglowrun with pure playback
01:35:55preglowit's completely standalone
01:36:08preglowruns as a part of the very last dsp process no matter if anything else is done or not
01:37:43 Quit Arathis ("[rl_bot quit]")
01:37:57jhMikeSwill it turn it on and off without leaving the setting so I can have immediate comparison?
01:38:03preglowyes
01:38:06preglow:-)
01:38:21preglowthough you probably won't know if it took effect, heh
01:39:16jhMikeSis FLAC a better one to use than mp3?
01:39:22preglownope
01:39:36preglowyou should use pretty quiet, dynamic music, though
01:39:41preglowbut like i said, i'm unable to detect it
01:39:50preglowi need to use 13 bit sound before i can hear it
01:40:33markunpreglow: and at 13 bit there is a big improvement with dithering on?
01:40:52 Quit GreyFoux (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
01:42:00preglowmarkun: oh yes
01:42:07preglowthere always is
01:42:15preglowbut sure, it depends on the music
01:43:28jhMikeSbeethoven
01:43:36***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:43:48preglowshould do
01:44:55jhMikeSwhat uses 13bit?
01:45:31hcsbeethoven
01:45:40hcshe composed everything in 13bits
01:45:53Paul_the_NerdHahah
01:46:34preglowhaha
01:46:37preglownothing uses 13 bits
01:46:39jhMikeSthought it was 12-tone
01:47:31jhMikeSman I really can't pick it out...
01:47:53 Join Acorn [0] (n=irc@82-35-97-118.cable.ubr05.dals.blueyonder.co.uk)
01:48:18preglowhaven't got a chance myself
01:48:27preglowperhaps, if played really loud, on loudspeakers
01:48:31preglowduring quiet passages
01:48:37jhMikeSWhere do the specral components lie that are being removed? It's possible that the DAC filters already take care of a lot
01:48:59preglowjhMikeS: they could lie everywhere, and no, dac filters should not remove anything in the signal
01:49:12Acornhey.. I was just wondering how people organise their albums that have multiple cds.. do people put all the tracks in one folder named 101, 102 and 201, 202 or do they put them in separate folders and what do you name the folders?
01:49:27preglowjhMikeS: and they're not being removed, on the contrary, spectral components are being added
01:49:38jhMikeSyeah, guess not if they're in the audible range...but I can blast it on my 600W amp to soo
01:49:42jhMikeSsoo/see
01:49:59Paul_the_NerdAcorn: I use seperate folders named "(Albumname) Disk 1" and so on (I also actually use that for the album tag on the file as well)
01:50:15Acorncheers
01:50:38Acorndo you have them within a folder called (albumname)?
01:50:44preglowjhMikeS: if i were in windows, i'd concoct a couple of nice samples to illustrate, but i'm not...
01:51:01*Acorn = O11 by the way
01:51:41Paul_the_NerdAcorn: No, I don't. \Artist\Albumname Disk 1, and \Artist\Albumname Disc 2. Some people may find it convenient to have them both subfolders of an album folder, but I like it this way.
01:52:02preglowthink i'll give it a shot anyway, using the illustrative powers of kraftwerk and the sim
01:52:06Acornhmm.. okay.. matter of preference..
01:55:24preglowjhMikeS: eight bit example coming up
01:55:27jhMikeSYou're removing undesirable components by adding components that are more "pleasing" or inaudible to the ear in way is how I see it.
01:55:49jhMikeSWell, 8-bit...heh
01:56:37Soapdithering removes artificial harmonics created by consistant rounding errors by randomizing the rounding, eh?
01:56:53jhMikeSBut I'll look at the math and then it will be much simler
01:56:56jhMikeSsimpler even
01:57:15preglowjhMikeS: yeah, sure, but the principle is the same. it'll always sound the same, just more or less pronounced
01:58:23jhMikeSI could make a 8-bit file with cool edit myself actually
02:00
02:00:14preglowwww.pvv.org/~thomj/rockbox/8bitdither.flac
02:00:25preglowfirst with no dither, then with
02:00:35preglowthis is the actual rockbox dither too
02:01:39 Join damaki [0] (n=Chocolat@ALille-151-1-25-2.w82-127.abo.wanadoo.fr)
02:01:46preglowas you hear, the noise is very dependent on the sound without dithering
02:01:59preglowwith dithering, the noise is always the same
02:02:13 Quit Soap (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
02:02:42jhMikeSYes, it goes from more "record scratching" sounds to a "high tape hiss" kind of noise
02:02:54preglowah, and yes, this is with third order noise shaping too
02:03:10jhMikeSIt happens mostly near the silences where the floor drops from the min to zero
02:03:21preglowyep
02:03:55preglowthe noise of the dither will be masked out pretty fast
02:04:10preglowwhile the signal dependent quantisation noise you get without dither tends to stay distracting
02:04:22jhMikeSI can see it in the visualizations too, that's sort of a blue noise I think
02:04:34preglowthe noise is highpass triangle pdf noise
02:04:50preglowso yes, it is lacking the lower frequencies
02:04:50jhMikeSIn 8-bit the noise is distracting no matter what :)
02:04:52preglowlike blue noise
02:05:01markunpreglow: how nice of you to use Kraftwerk in your test!
02:05:15preglowmarkun: they were heavily affected by quantisation :P
02:05:16jhMikeSSpeak 'n' spell at that too :)
02:06:09jhMikeSThe dither noise is more constant but much louder than the q noise
02:06:46preglowdepends, if you ask me
02:07:06preglowand i wouldn't say much, anyway
02:07:22preglowduring otherwise silent parts the q noise becomes very loud
02:07:39preglowgod, i miss cool edit
02:08:12jhMikeSShouldn't there be some sort of hi-f fadeoff esp at low depths?
02:08:45preglowlow bit depths? why?
02:09:11jhMikeSThat high-end noise at 8-bit is loud as hell
02:09:25preglowit's there because it's supposed to
02:09:28preglowthat's the noise shaping
02:09:45preglowwithout that, there would be more noise at more audible frequencies
02:10:35preglowi'll do a render without noise shaping too
02:10:42jhMikeSIt's very audible
02:11:17preglowsure
02:12:41jhMikeSI'm thinking putting a gain on the high frequencies first, applying the shaping and then low pass would cut it, but isn't that dolby nr?
02:13:14preglownew file up now, last segment is without the noise shaping
02:13:25jhMikeSsame link"?
02:13:28preglowyea
02:13:54preglowproblem is that the noise spectrum still needs to be equal power
02:13:59preglowso if you cut highs, you need to boost lows
02:14:05*dan_a tries reading the disk on the Sansa
02:14:34*dan_a fails
02:14:45preglowdan_a: logo and disk on the same day? :>
02:14:55preglowwell, i guess technically it's a new day
02:15:18preglowjhMikeS: i definitely prefer the noise shaped version
02:15:21jhMikeSNo doubt they're very different
02:15:25 Join Stalwart [0] (n=stalwart@ip-10.154.Home-Lan.fastnet.lv)
02:15:34dan_aThe logo was simple - the LCD driver has been working a week, all I needed to do was figure out how bitmaps worked!
02:15:41preglowdan_a: :)
02:15:47Stalwartthankies to all devs for rockbox =]
02:15:53preglowStalwart: you're welcome
02:15:58Stalwartit simply rocks my nano
02:16:03preglowdamn straight it does
02:16:30Acornhmm.. I was also wondering.. what do people do if they have an album that has more than one artist?
02:16:31Stalwartthere are no good skins for nano =|
02:16:34jhMikeSNoise shaping really pushes it up there, I want to listen with a gentle low pass applied
02:16:36 Quit spiorf (Remote closed the connection)
02:16:37preglowjhMikeS: but you agree the third is the more noticable of the two, or?
02:16:54jhMikeSI don't know...it has a more "analogue" sound to it.
02:17:19preglowjhMikeS: problem is that a gentle lowpass would mean lots of low frequency noise
02:17:26jhMikeSMy high frequency hearing is very much in tact
02:17:36preglowi doubt i can hear anything above 16khz
02:18:11Stalwartgnite everyone ;)
02:18:15jhMikeSI can...I always use earplugs around loud stuff
02:18:32preglowjhMikeS: but anyway, playing with noise shaping is quite easy, it's just a matter of replacing a filter
02:18:46preglowi use earplugs around loud stuff too, but i didn't always...
02:19:23jhMikeSThe problem is that the noise just grows in ampliture right up to the top end and it's a bit piercing
02:20:08*jhMikeS is too sensitive to high pitches :(
02:20:26preglowif you've got octave/matlab around, the following plots the noise shaping filter freq response:
02:20:29preglowfreqz([1, -0.5, 0.5], [1, 0, 0]);
02:21:07preglowit pushes noise down 6db around 4-8 khz, and boosts 8db at around 16khz and up
02:21:13preglow6db, i mean
02:21:34 Join Pajama-B [0] (n=tbrn@12-216-161-27.client.mchsi.com)
02:21:53jhMikeSno, no matlab or octave. I see matlab around a lot. It is pricey or free?
02:22:11preglowpricey
02:22:22preglowbut octave is a clone that's very much usable
02:22:25preglowwhich is gnu
02:22:32preglowgpl,i mean
02:22:53 Join JdGordon [0] (n=jonno@c220-237-57-32.smelb1.vic.optusnet.com.au)
02:23:17Davide-NYCOK I just got back from my telephone escapades.
02:23:25Davide-NYCI want in on this dithering thing
02:23:51jhMikeSread back a bit, get the patch, and there's sample file too
02:23:59Davide-NYCthx
02:24:09Davide-NYCCrap! jhMikeS I need the samplerate list again
02:24:11Davide-NYCsorry
02:24:19preglowi'd very much want some feedback on whether this is something people want
02:24:23jhMikeS 8000, 11000, 12000, 16000, 22000, 24000, 32000, 44100, 48000, 64000, 88200, 96000
02:24:31preglowpersonally, i'll never even dream of using it, so i'd be glad to cut it out of the source
02:24:49Pajama-BHey, does anyone have an iriver 300 series
02:25:06hcslet's try this again: how can I do simple profiling on coldfire (I just need something I can use to measure elapsed time)
02:25:11jhMikeSFor high quality files it just doesn't seem to make any audible difference but I should listen to it on my loudspeakers.
02:25:29Davide-NYCdefine high quality
02:25:32Davide-NYC(please_
02:25:36preglowjhMikeS: you should listen to some music with quiet parts pretty loudly on speakers and see if you hear anything
02:25:44Pajama-BCuz I'm a blind person trying to help another person install rockbox, and I don't know the keys to navigate in the menus
02:26:14preglowi've never even seen a h3x0
02:26:19preglowand now i need to go sleep, later all
02:26:26jhMikeSI've got a loud setup
02:26:28jhMikeSgoodnight
02:26:28Davide-NYCMy wife has an H300
02:26:35markunPajama-B: are you both blind?
02:26:37Davide-NYC-night
02:26:40 Join TerrorByte [0] (i=4889bb7a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/session)
02:26:40Pajama-Byeah
02:26:54Pajama-BI've installed it before on my 100 i just don't think the menu structure is the same
02:27:02TerrorByteQuick question..
02:27:06TerrorByteI downloaded a theme...
02:27:10TerrorByteHow do I change the color of the font?
02:27:22TerrorByteStupid question................. I know.
02:27:33AcornPajama-B: I have a h300 iriver with rockbox
02:27:42Pajama-Bokay
02:27:47TerrorByteAnyone?
02:27:47scorcheTerrorByte: foreground color
02:27:48hcsTerrorByte: change the color in the theme or just manually set it in rockbox?
02:27:51TerrorByteAh.
02:27:54TerrorByteForeground color?
02:27:57TerrorByteOkay let me try that.
02:28:14AcornPajama-B: So what is it exactly that you need to know?
02:28:27Pajama-Bso it's in the iriver firmware, all the files are coped i just need to know the keys to get into the menu to upgrade
02:28:33Pajama-Bcopied*
02:28:37TerrorByteWorked.
02:28:44TerrorByteThanks scorche.
02:28:44TerrorByte:)
02:28:46TerrorByteLater.
02:28:48TerrorByteThanks once again.
02:28:49 Quit TerrorByte (Client Quit)
02:28:57Acornlet me have a look..
02:29:56Davide-NYCpreglow: I have an opinion
02:30:02Davide-NYCI'm not sure what I'm listennig to.
02:30:20Davide-NYCThe first section is least noisy but the noise is dynamic and distracting
02:30:35Davide-NYCthe second section the noise is 'nicer' and consistent, but louder.
02:30:51Paul_the_NerdWe should state that the foreground color is the font color in the manual, so that when people search for "font color" they'll get it. (Or at least, when they search for "font colour")
02:31:05Davide-NYCthe third section has "less nice" noise that is slightly less loud.
02:31:19Davide-NYCis my opinion as expected?
02:31:21Pajama-Bi know you hold in the middle of the nav button to get to the manu but i don't know from there
02:31:26Pajama-Bmenu*
02:32:13scorchePaul_the_Nerd: yeah...we should
02:32:36scorchethe current explanation isnt that great...
02:32:41Davide-NYCPajama-B: my player starts up to the root of the file tree
02:32:59Pajama-Bokay
02:33:34Pajama-Bhow do I get in the menu
02:33:53AcornI'm switching my player on now
02:33:54Davide-NYCI understand the confusion
02:34:04Acornyes.. hold down navi..
02:34:06Davide-NYCthe buttons are mapped a bit differently on a H00
02:34:12Davide-NYCoops I meant H300
02:34:15Pajama-Bit beeped
02:34:27Acorndamn.. i'm in korean.. 1 sec
02:34:31Davide-NYCthe left button are : Top = on/play/pause
02:34:43Davide-NYCBottom = Off/Stop
02:34:44jhMikeSDavide-NYC: I head it similiarly
02:34:47AcornDavide-NYC: yeah.. I have a h300
02:34:47jhMikeShear even
02:35:16Davide-NYCthe right buttons are as follows: top = record (which is currently unused)
02:35:26Davide-NYCbottom = "a/b"
02:35:36Davide-NYCthe "ab" button takes you to the menu
02:35:48Pajama-Bbut it's in iriver firmware
02:35:54Pajama-Btrying to install rockbox
02:35:56AcornPajama-B: I'm in english!
02:36:02AcornPajama-B: ok.. here we go..
02:36:19Davide-NYCOoops
02:36:21Davide-NYCsorry
02:36:34AcornPajama-B: hold down navi.. then press navi again to go into general which will already be selected..
02:36:57Pajama-Bis it supposed to beep when navy is held down?
02:37:08Pajama-Bnavi
02:37:13Acornerm.. let me check with my headphones..
02:37:21 Part Paul_the_Nerd
02:37:53jhMikeSso word on the street is that the H1x0 makes an easy brick?
02:38:14Pajama-Bi have a 20 that's a nice paper weight right now
02:38:22AcornPajama-B: hmm.. that's odd.. mine doesn't beep..
02:38:51AcornPajama-B: are you sure you're starting out from the normal playing screen?
02:38:53Davide-NYCpreglow: jhMikeS: if I had to choose a segment I would choose the middle segment though all of it "sounds like ass" since the source is noisy. What would the point be? Like a Noise Reduction?
02:38:53Pajama-Bhow long do you hold it in for?
02:38:55Acornotherwise it wont work..
02:38:57Pajama-Byeah
02:39:25jhMikeSIt makes the noise more constant and higher in the spectrum.
02:39:37AcornPajama-B: it doesn't matter.. only about 2 seconds..
02:39:45Pajama-Bokay
02:40:16Pajama-Bso what after general?
02:40:22jhMikeSTo me it's very loud and doesn't really help with 16 bit audio. The source is noisy cause it's 8-bit audio to make a point.
02:40:47AcornPajama-B: you think you're in? okay.. well then you go down 4 and then press navi again..
02:40:51Davide-NYCwhich one is the original?
02:40:54jhMikeSThough as far as 8-bit goes it acually helps it sound pretty allright
02:40:59jhMikeSthe first
02:41:04Pajama-Bokay
02:41:18Davide-NYCPajama-B: wait
02:41:21 Join EspeonEefi [0] (i=espeonee@STRATTON-SIXTY-SIX.MIT.EDU)
02:41:39Acornthen go 1 to the left and press navi again.. but maybe you should wait if Davide-NYC is telling you to wait..
02:41:52Davide-NYCAre you trying to change language or update firmware?
02:42:00Pajama-Bupdate firmware
02:42:05Davide-NYCMy firmware is different
02:42:20Davide-NYCnevermind.
02:42:36Davide-NYCif you pressed the down button four times, you're fine
02:42:39AcornPajama-B: when you do that the player should be updating the firmware..
02:43:02Pajama-Bhow do i select yes
02:43:08AcornPajama-B: then you should leave the player and not interrupt the process.. which should take about "1 minute"
02:43:14AcornPajama-B: you go 1 to the left
02:43:25Pajama-Boh. on mine it's right
02:43:38Davide-NYChmm
02:43:50AcornPajama-B: actually it doesn't matter
02:43:58Pajama-Boh
02:44:06AcornPajama-B: seeing as there are only 2 options in flicks to the other side anyway..
02:44:08Davide-NYCconfirmed
02:44:27AcornPajama-B: after the process is finished the player will switch itself off..
02:44:47AcornPajama-B: will you be able to tell when that's happened?
02:45:32Pajama-Bit's spinning
02:45:56Pajama-Bwaiting
02:47:45Pajama-Bab repeat is the bottom right?
02:47:51Davide-NYCyes
02:48:11Davide-NYCthe equivalent to the record button is above that
02:48:19Pajama-Bhmm i don't get any speech so dn't know if I'm in rockbox
02:48:20Davide-NYCequivalent to the h100
02:48:24AcornPajama-B: remember you shouldn't interrup it while it's upgrading..
02:48:32Pajama-Byeah. it switched itself off
02:48:44AcornPajama-B: oh good..
02:48:46jhMikeSafk atm
02:49:19Acornwell.. you should be able to check if it worked by holding down record and play at the same time for a second or 2 which should start the original firmware..
02:50:17Acorncan the iriver firmware produce speech?
02:50:22Pajama-Bno
02:51:44 Quit [TCK] (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
02:51:53Pajama-Bmy person is going to see if she can get sighted person to help
02:52:11Pajama-BIs rockbox set to voice menus by default?
02:52:39AcornI didn't know rockbox could do voice.. i'll see if i can tell you how to switch it on..
02:52:47Pajama-Bit does
02:53:05Pajama-Bbut i jsut don't know if that's on by default. when i've installed it it has been, then i just loaded a config file
02:54:05AcornPajama-B: well.. my voice menus is set to on.. but what does that do?
02:54:06 Join TCK [0] (n=hahano@bb-87-80-197-109.ukonline.co.uk)
02:54:20Pajama-Bif you have a voice file it will speak the menus
02:54:46Acornwell.. you probably have to specify the voice files then don't you?
02:55:01Pajama-Bi don't think so, not if there's only one there
02:56:08Acornokay.. I think you have to set the voice directory and voice file name options to .talk mp3 clip..
02:56:25Acornshall i tell you how to navigate there?
02:56:52 Join Paul_the_Nerd [0] (n=Llorean@cpe-70-112-165-230.austin.res.rr.com)
02:57:42AcornPaul_the_Nerd: do you know anything about voice on rockbox?
02:58:29scorchePajama-B: all you need to do is put the language.voice into .rockbox/langs/
02:58:40Pajama-Byeah, i have it there
02:58:49scorchethen it should work
02:59:00scorchethe feature is on by default
02:59:13Davide-NYCactually I'm trying this now for the first time.
02:59:43scorchedid you want to set it up so directories and file names will be spoken as well?
02:59:59Pajama-BYeah. it's weird, there's no speech at all
03:00
03:00:29scorcheit should work as long as music is not playing and you are being spoken the menus
03:01:00Davide-NYCPajama-B: try to scroll to the bottom of the list and then release.
03:01:14Pajama-Bactually now, when it turns on, it beeps, and i think that means it's still in the iriver firmware
03:01:25Davide-NYCWhat I can say is that right now it is working for me, but not at all as it should
03:01:42Pajama-Band i know the firmware upgraded
03:01:56Pajama-Bso i could try a different version
03:01:56Acornhow do you play a folder?
03:02:14Davide-NYCyes, the Iriver gives one beep after boot is complete
03:02:23JdGordonit does?
03:02:33Acornit does..
03:02:40Davide-NYCjhMikeS: H300
03:02:41 Join amiconn_ [0] (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn)
03:03:02Pajama-Byeah and i know it upraded
03:03:10Pajama-Bhad sighted help doing that
03:03:32Davide-NYCcan you boot into Rockbox?
03:03:38jhMikeSDavide-NYC: huh? H300 what? did I ask something? :)
03:03:56AcornjhMikeS: I think it was a mistake ;D
03:04:19Davide-NYCyou asked if the iriver firmware gives one beep after completion of boot.
03:04:32Davide-NYCon an H300 it does on an H100 I'm not sure
03:04:38AcornjhMikeS: you got roused from your afk slumber =P
03:04:47Davide-NYCwhat is afk?
03:04:51jhMikeSDavide-NYC: no...that was someone else
03:05:00Davide-NYCoh, sorry. :-P
03:05:01JdGordonaway from keyboad
03:05:01jhMikeSAcorn: sure did
03:05:10Pajama-Bmaybe my firmwaredidn't patch properly
03:05:13Davide-NYCah... away from keyboard
03:06:13Acornhmm.. I've just realised how much better music sounds through headphones.. You really seem to hear it much more.. maybe it's louder treble..?
03:06:29jhMikeSThere was discussion about my x5 upgrade early this morning but was too tired too hop in. I think someone was going to commence battery tests.
03:06:30Davide-NYCPajama-B: if you're just pressing ON and you're still getting the OF then I'd say either the bootloader wasn't properly installed and you're still runner 100% iriver or there's something missing in terms of the rockbox files
03:06:40 Quit BHSPitLappy (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
03:07:01Davide-NYCrunner should be running
03:08:37jhMikeSThink I'll probably commit the buttons thing too and save a few more percent on boost. No more scary dead buttons.
03:09:03Pajama-Bhmm. i don't thnk the firmware patched properly. i was having trouble with it
03:09:06Davide-NYCjhMikeS: the guys haven;t called me back yet so maybe no spdif tests tonight either
03:09:31Davide-NYCif you have a sec could you briefly tell me what this ps50606 thing is?
03:09:52 Quit amiconn (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
03:09:53 Nick amiconn_ is now known as amiconn (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn)
03:09:54Davide-NYCthe quote "like a whole new player" has me all squirmy
03:10:10jhMikeSDavide-NYC: squirmy! why?
03:10:34Davide-NYCSquirmy as in nervous excitement, as in I'm kidding.
03:10:39Davide-NYC:-)
03:11:03Pajama-BI'm trying repatch now
03:12:14Davide-NYCPajama-B: which language file do you use?
03:12:21Acornarh.. my h300 headphone socket's being dodgy..
03:12:21Pajama-Benglish.voice
03:12:22jhMikeSpcf50606: The power management unit that handles voltage regulation and power for much of the system. Has an ADC to read buttons and battery level. Has PWM to run the backlight. On x5, handles the battery charging.
03:12:29Pajama-Bin the langs folder
03:12:44Davide-NYCI understand there are several different ones to choose from
03:12:53jhMikeSHas several ADCs actually
03:13:05jhMikeSOh, and it runs the RTC
03:13:40Davide-NYCPWM?
03:13:53jhMikeSPulse Width Modulation
03:14:03*Davide-NYC head feels crushed
03:14:18Pajama-Bi know you have to use the european firmware. I'm using 1.28
03:14:27Davide-NYCso the H100 does not benefit from this optimisation?
03:14:44Pajama-Bit's the only one i've seen work. sometimes it doesn't take it
03:14:49Davide-NYCPajama-B: I believe you can use any non-US version
03:15:08Davide-NYCI use the korean since it is the most flexible and has the most features
03:15:13Pajama-BI had another friend try to do this and it didn't take
03:15:26Davide-NYChmm.
03:15:39Davide-NYCI used the korean firmware v 1.29
03:16:04jhMikeSDavide-NYC: When most brick their H1x0s, it's during the bootloader install right? The rest of RB stay on the hard drive right?
03:16:10Pajama-Bhow does it have more fetures if you're using rockbox anyway/
03:16:13Pajama-Bfeatures*
03:16:21Paul_the_NerdPajama-B: If you're moving from the US FW to a non-US Rockbox patched firmware, the Rockbox bootloader won't get included in the upgrade for some reason. Just upgrade to the same patched .hex file twice.
03:16:34Paul_the_NerdjhMikeS: What "most" brick? I don't think anyone's bricked it yet.
03:16:58jhMikeSPaul_the_Nerd: I think then Davide-NYC has been f'ing with me then.
03:17:25Davide-NYCjhMikeS: bricking an H100 only occurs whith the wrong charger
03:17:47jhMikeSDavide-NYC: why would I use the wrong one if I'm getting the right one with it?
03:17:49Davide-NYCdon't incurr paul's wrath on me
03:17:53Paul_the_NerdIn theory an H100 could be bricked due to a battery dying during firmware flash, or somehow flashing a corrupt image.
03:18:23Pajama-BDoes iriver fix 100's anymore/
03:18:23Paul_the_NerdjhMikeS: You'd be surprised how many threads I've seen of people who were like "I couldn't find the charger, and the head on this other charger I had looked the same"
03:18:30Pajama-BI know stupid question
03:18:32Davide-NYCI was specifically talking about supplying these things with incorrect power
03:18:39jhMikeSIf the charger supplies the correct voltage and has enough current capability it shouldn't matter. It probably of the switching regulator type though.
03:18:45Davide-NYCPajama-B: I highly doubt it
03:19:05Pajama-Bi have a 20 that doens't do anything. i may hav used the wrong power supply since mine dind't come with one
03:19:39Davide-NYCjhMikeS: I know. And I also suspect you're the type of person that would never fry their unit in this way, but I cannot tell you how many I have seen on ebay that are toast.
03:19:51Davide-NYCPajama-B: I highly suspect that you have fried your player
03:19:52jhMikeSPaul_the_Nerd: I'll read the specs on the case to see if it's sufficient should I be in that situation :)
03:20:08Pajama-Bit gets really hot when I plug it in though
03:20:12Davide-NYCeven reverse polarity kills 'em I've heard
03:20:27Davide-NYCyeah, it's killed
03:20:32Davide-NYCpretty sure
03:20:39jhMikeSDavide-NYC: I'm suprise there's not a series diode to prevent that.
03:20:51Davide-NYCThat's my other gripe
03:20:58Paul_the_NerdjhMikeS: That's one of the biggest flaws in the H100 series, actually, that there's not.
03:21:08jhMikeSAnd a crowbar with a fusible link
03:21:14Davide-NYC1. RTC (or lack thereof) 2. surge protection (or lack thereof)
03:21:23Davide-NYCotherwise... perfect
03:21:34*Paul_the_Nerd doesn't need an RTC on his player because he wears a watch.
03:21:37Pajama-Bany chance of it getting fixed by anyone, or should i jsut throw it away
03:21:48Davide-NYCdo not throw it away.
03:21:48jhMikeSDavide-NYC: does it actually fry the whole player or does it just stop the charging circuit?
03:22:01jhMikeSPajama-B: Send it to me :)
03:22:05Paul_the_NerdCharging circuit as far as I'm aware.
03:22:06Davide-NYCjhMikeS: there is a thread over at mystic river about fixing them
03:22:21Davide-NYCit's not easy. Teeny tiny soldering required
03:22:36Davide-NYCI'm good with the he-man tube amp soldering, but this is beyond me
03:22:50Pajama-Bokay
03:22:55Davide-NYCPajama-B: Is there music on the Hard-Drive?
03:22:57jhMikeSDavide-NYC: That's ok. I think a hot air gun would be helpful to have.
03:23:04Pajama-Bi don't know i never got it to power on
03:23:13Davide-NYChmm, where are you?
03:23:20Pajama-BIowa
03:23:28Pajama-Bi got it on ebay
03:23:41Davide-NYCI have no idea what to do about this. I want to help.
03:23:44Pajama-Band it said it has problems crashing. but i never got the thing to work
03:24:03Davide-NYCcan you confirm correct power adaptor?
03:24:07Pajama-Bdidn't come with a power supply, so i got one, it could've been the wrong one
03:24:15Davide-NYCprobably backwards.
03:24:35Davide-NYC5Volts, tip positive
03:24:46jhMikeSDavide-NYC: what's the correct voltage, polarity, and current on the "wall wart"
03:25:04Davide-NYC5 volt
03:25:09Davide-NYCtip positive
03:25:11Davide-NYC2 amp
03:25:41Pajama-Bi got it on ebay, it's a usb cable with a mini usb and the charging thing on one end
03:25:58Davide-NYCthe barrel is the same as the barrel on the adapter for a lot of old nokia phone, pretty small
03:26:04Pajama-Bthen you put the regular usb into the wall thing
03:26:25jhMikeSHmmm x5 similar but 1.5A...I'll keep them apart
03:26:48Pajama-Bi don't know if it was the right one. but then i got a 140 that worked and I used that charger and that still didn't help
03:26:51Davide-NYCPajama-B: you are decribing a special cable. Boxware makes one.
03:27:27Davide-NYCdid you use the special cable for the H140?
03:27:35Pajama-Bno I'm afriad to do that ll
03:27:35Davide-NYCDon't do it.
03:27:45Davide-NYCyeah, not worth it
03:28:12Pajama-Bdidn't want to kill it
03:28:29Davide-NYCOnce they are fried they are done. So pluggin the charger into the H120 tell us nothing.
03:28:43Pajama-Byeah. it's broke
03:29:09Davide-NYCDoes the LCD feel broken or cracked?
03:29:16Pajama-Bno the thing looks brand new
03:29:33Pajama-Bi could send to you
03:29:37Davide-NYCsalvageable parts list:
03:29:46jhMikeSIt's probably repairable since burnout would likely happen early in the system
03:29:51Davide-NYCHD, LCD, Case, Joystick, Battery
03:30:08jhMikeSDavide-NYC: Don't you have enough spare parts already? :)
03:30:20Davide-NYChehe
03:30:26Davide-NYCthey don;t make these anymore
03:30:38Davide-NYCand actually I have no spare parts right now
03:30:48jhMikeSThought you have batteries
03:30:50Davide-NYC8-)
03:30:56Davide-NYCyes I have batteries
03:30:56jhMikeSliar :)
03:31:07Pajama-Bwho wnats it cuz I'm not smart enough to fix it
03:31:09Pajama-Blol
03:31:18jhMikeSyes, we have no bananas
03:31:22Davide-NYCI'll take it.
03:31:30Davide-NYCbut hold on
03:31:34Pajama-Bcan you fix it, or you just want for parts?
03:31:42jhMikeSme too, chainsaw it in half and randomly pick which half you send to whom
03:31:46Davide-NYCI would try to fix it and send it back to you
03:31:54Pajama-Bthat'd be cool
03:31:57Davide-NYCif not I have no clue
03:32:10Davide-NYCwhat do I do if I can't get it to work?
03:32:15Davide-NYCsend it back?
03:32:17Pajama-Bsend it to the other guy\
03:32:19Pajama-Blol
03:32:21Davide-NYCHaha
03:32:32Davide-NYCyeah, maybe he can fix it!
03:32:36jhMikeS*after* the he-man soldering effort
03:32:52Pajama-Band I'll only say give me money if it gets fixed :)
03:32:54jhMikeSThe shipping charges will be outrageous from all the lead
03:32:59Pajama-Blol
03:33:00Davide-NYCwith big-bertha the 250watt soldering iron I use for star grounding
03:33:52Davide-NYCHere is the mysticriver thread
03:33:53Davide-NYChttp://www.misticriver.net/showthread.php?t=44799
03:33:54jhMikeSlol...kiss it goodbye!
03:34:01Pajama-Blol
03:34:05Pajama-Bi don't ever use it
03:34:23jhMikeSIt that thread wrapped in brown paper so noone will know your shame?
03:34:25jhMikeS:)
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03:34:52Davide-NYCjhMikeS: can you to small solderinglike that?
03:35:50jhMikeSDavide-NYC: I will try...it'll be the first time I tried repairing that surface mount stuff but it would be good
03:36:18Pajama-Bthat's the only thing i can think of that's wrong
03:36:22jhMikeSThat comment above sounded kinda bad now that I think about it...sorry
03:38:10*Davide-NYC is reading about the repair procedure
03:38:47Pajama-BI'll send you my cable too
03:39:03jhMikeSI've got a lot spare parts sitting around from old computer. Could probably just pull parts from the bin.
03:40:37Pajama-Boh she's got speech, brb
03:41:23jhMikeSIt's safe to use larger uF or higher voltages so even if the caps don't match exactly it's likely ok
03:41:43 Part pixelma
03:42:00AcornPajama-B: hurray!
03:42:12Pajama-Blol
03:43:26Davide-NYCjhMikeS: do you have caps laying around?
03:43:40***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
03:44:02Davide-NYC100uF
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03:44:46jhMikeSDavide-NYC: You bet...but they're soldered to computer cards
03:45:25Davide-NYCjhMikeS: you willing to attempt this repair?
03:45:47jhMikeSShould be interesting, what's there to lose really? It's already shot.
03:45:56Davide-NYCI'ma bit intimidated by the sheer tinyness of it.
03:46:02Pajama-Byeah that's what i say
03:46:18Pajama-Bif it's fixed good, if not, oh well :)
03:46:21Davide-NYCIf jhMikeS wants the gig send it to him.
03:46:38Davide-NYCOtherwise I'll take the stab at it (with a kitchen knife)
03:46:49Davide-NYCjust kidding (about the knife bit)
03:46:52jhMikeSwhy not? I'll sharpen one of my soldering iron tips
03:46:59Davide-NYCdon
03:47:02Davide-NYC*done
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03:47:25barrywardellhey dan_a. saw your post on the forum. did you boot rockbox on the Sansa?
03:49:08*jhMikeS doesn't want the improper adapter anywhere in the house though. he'll have his own to use.
03:49:37jhMikeSDavide-NYC: would suck if I fixed it and refried it, huh?
03:49:55Davide-NYCtotally
03:50:18Davide-NYChas anyone checked the voice system lately?
03:50:23midgey34barrywardell: i updated the Mac Sim patch
03:50:35midgey34should have no problems on any target now
03:51:14 Part Paul_the_Nerd
03:51:29barrywardellmidgey34: does that mean it's good to be committed?
03:51:38Davide-NYCWhat does IBC: at 0000000A mean?
03:52:16midgey34i think its good, you may want to make sure its tested first, i only have osx and my iriver isnt with me
03:52:32midgey34but it works perfectly on the sim
03:52:38jhMikeSPajama-B: how do you want to do this? pm me for details.
03:53:12Davide-NYCGuys Voice is messed up.
03:53:20barrywardelli can only test on osx at the moment too, but it looks quite ok
03:53:33midgey34its a pretty simple change
03:53:36Davide-NYCI'm pretty sure unless I installed it wron on my H100 and my H300
03:54:11midgey34normally on the sims, ICODE_ADDR is defined as nothing
03:54:42midgey34since the debug menu was recently added, that was still __attribute__ section((".icode"))
03:54:51midgey34which causes problems on osx
03:54:55barrywardellmidgey34: yes, i just noticed that in the code
03:55:12barrywardellseems like debug_menu should use the defines
03:55:30midgey34yep
03:55:59jhMikeSDavide-NYC: his voice for the IRC?
03:56:06barrywardellthat function shouldn't be defined for osx anyway, but it's probably a good idea to add your patch to cvs anyway
03:56:17barrywardellor for any sims, actually
03:56:21Davide-NYCno, the voice function in rockbox
03:56:30Davide-NYCI've never messed with it before.
03:56:35jhMikeSoh...where'd he go?
03:56:39midgey34alright, sounds good
03:56:55Davide-NYCI installed the file on both my h100 and my h300. On the H100 I get the IBC error
03:57:18Davide-NYCon the 300 the voice comes on yes and no and never corresponds with what it's supposed to
03:57:25Davide-NYC(this is in menus only)
03:57:26barrywardellam I right that there's no reason to have dgb_flash_id on the sim? it doesn't really make sense
03:58:47Davide-NYCalso there is no section in flyspray to report this
03:58:53Davide-NYCis it considered a plugin?
03:59:19midgey34barrywardell: i dont see any reason
04:00
04:00:31barrywardellok, i'll commit the change and see if anyone complains. i'll leave the ifndef SIMULATOR outside the dbg_flash_id definition though
04:00:53midgey34ok
04:01:58hcsis there a clock on coldfire that I can read to watch time go by? there's a ticks thing, but I don't think 100s of a second will be accurate enough
04:05:43*jhMikeS likes the commit and prepare for the stoning in the public square approach to CVS commits too.
04:06:11Pajama-Bbrb
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04:08:28Davide-NYCDo not pay attention to my reports on the voice system being messed up!
04:08:38Davide-NYCI was using the legacy files. Doh!
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04:10:29jhMikeShmmm...I'm about to do the scary button code...hopefully everyone will have working x5 buttons in the morning
04:10:57Davide-NYCwill this affect irivers?
04:11:33jhMikeSno
04:11:57Davide-NYCthen go for it!
04:11:58Davide-NYC(just kidding(
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04:12:11jhMikeSheh...to hell with everyone else! >:-]
04:12:40Davide-NYCEven with the new language file I'm getting a frozen unit
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04:12:48Davide-NYCIBC: at 0000000A
04:13:27Davide-NYChow many people test the voice feature and how often>
04:13:35jhMikeSI haven't had any probs with it so it's likely ok and noone will have to look for stones :)
04:13:49*Davide-NYC pick one up for good measure
04:14:01jhMikeSDavide-NYC: I test it a lot with the codec stuff. It seems like some changes have made it more stable but they aren't mine.
04:14:36Davide-NYCfor a 3.0 release I'd say we have to get it working correctly at least for the menus
04:14:44Davide-NYC"we" haha
04:15:47jhMikeSI'm trying to figure out how to get voice during recording itself. The full duplex sound should enable that in part but without mixing so you'd hear audio monitoring or voice but not both.
04:16:05Pajama-Byou don't get speech during recording
04:16:18jhMikeSnot yet
04:16:34Davide-NYCPajama-B: are you using a recent build of Rockbox?
04:16:43Pajama-Bi dn't know how old mine is
04:17:29Davide-NYCWell I'm getting hard crashes on my H100
04:17:50Davide-NYCthe minute it tries to load the english.voice I get a IBC: at 0000000A
04:17:56jhMikeSif we didn't have to swap out the speech codec all the time and used a very simple specialized codec I think a lot of complication would go away.
04:18:13Davide-NYCwhat do you propose?
04:18:17Pajama-Bhmm
04:18:22Davide-NYCcause it's broke right now
04:18:50Pajama-Bi use voice all the time
04:18:50barrywardellmidgey34: done - http://www.rockbox.org/cvsmod/chlog-2006-10-27%2002:10:34.html
04:18:57Davide-NYCI even used the frech file because it has an Oct 2006 datestamp and switched to frech and the same error
04:19:00Pajama-Bbrb pizza
04:19:31Davide-NYCI'm wearing out my reset button over here.
04:19:33midgey34barrywardell: i saw, is there any reason you didnt change dbg_flash_id() as well?
04:19:50midgey34even if its not used, its nice to be consistent
04:19:58barrywardelli thought it doesn't make sense to have it compiled for the sim
04:20:00jhMikeSDavide-NYC: I don't know. I think some buffer could be dedicated to it when it's in use. It should be small since it shouldn't have to decode every possible format. Right now we just use the regular mpa.codec for it.
04:20:17barrywardellthere are plenty of other functions that aren't compiled for the sim
04:20:24Davide-NYCwhat about soem TTS engine?
04:20:27barrywardellespecially in debug_menu.c
04:20:33Davide-NYCimpossibly complex right
04:20:34midgey34i meant why not change to ICODE_ATTR
04:21:07jhMikeSI'd love a realtime voice synth that sounds like a speak 'n' spell personally :)
04:21:18barrywardelloops
04:21:24barrywardellbecause i missed it
04:21:44barrywardelli'll commit that now too
04:21:56Davide-NYCI'm not blind so I never tested it. I just thought "man how cool is rockbox?" now I try it and it's busted.
04:21:59jhMikeSTTS: I think if the voice strings were phonetic representations then that could work.
04:21:59midgey34all right, no worries, i figured as much
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04:22:44Davide-NYCcould strings be translated to phonetics with small enough error for comprehention?
04:22:51jhMikeSDavide-NYC: It worked for me by just dropping in the voice file and that's it.
04:22:52Davide-NYCI'm thinking directories.
04:22:59Davide-NYCREALLY!?
04:23:01barrywardellmidgey34: hopefully second time lucky!
04:23:12Davide-NYCwhich file?
04:23:23midgey34if not, third's the charm so they say
04:24:04jhMikeSDavide-NYC: oy...I'm sure they could. I wonder how much CPU it takes to get a nice voice synth working.
04:24:23Davide-NYCjhMikeS: which voice file did you use?
04:24:29jhMikeSlemme look
04:24:39Davide-NYCand are you using a patched build?
04:25:25jhMikeSpatched or not it works
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04:26:45Davide-NYChttp://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/VoiceFiles
04:29:31jhMikeSIt's english.voice no matter what though and I don't have the zip file
04:29:40jhMikeSI'll figure it out
04:30:08Davide-NYCI'm going to try with a daily.
04:31:33jhMikeSIt's 1319Kb though
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04:32:10midgey34any tracker mod want to close task #6235 (reason: accepted)
04:34:18JdGordondone
04:34:54jhMikeSman the downloads are going slow
04:36:29jhMikeSI"m pretty sure it was for a release 2.5 though and not a daily build
04:42:04jhMikeSyeah...the other don't work but the one I have does
04:42:06midgey34JdGordon: thanks
04:42:23Davide-NYCI know why it was not working for me before.
04:42:41jhMikeSIt's saying all the wrong things...
04:42:55jhMikeSSomething ... and the "X"
04:42:57Davide-NYCrockbox.iriver has to be in the root and not the .rockbox folder
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04:43:35Davide-NYCmine works fine in menu root... I'll test extensively the menus.
04:44:13cowonx5does anyone know about common problems with LCDs?
04:44:58cowonx5this is what my screen looks like: http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/4240/x5sctz4.jpg
04:45:33Davide-NYCbusted cable.
04:45:41Davide-NYC(IMO)
04:46:13jhMikeSa simulation is appears
04:46:26jhMikeSbut some driver lines in the chip could be out
04:46:39cowonx5I took the x5 apart and the cable looked fine & it was still seated securely
04:46:50cowonx5I haddropped it :(
04:46:51jhMikeSIt's not a cable problem
04:46:58Davide-NYCtrust jhMikeS
04:47:09cowonx5is there an easy fix....please say yes...?
04:47:21jhMikeSIt's probably a connection problem on the x5 lcd board
04:47:47jhMikeSI'm sorry...I can't...that's a nasty one.
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04:48:01cowonx5speaking of which, does anyone know of an x5 disassembly (with focus on reassembly lol) guide anywhere?
04:48:02jhMikeStake it apart if you can and push on the display itself
04:48:37cowonx5I took it apart completely but don't know how to put it back lol
04:49:08jhMikeSCan you run it apart? Does pushing on the panel bring any lines back?
04:49:26cowonx5don't have it with me right now, but haven't tried that
04:49:55jhMikeSIt might have separated the solder joints on the lcd panel
04:50:18cowonx5my screen looked like that at first, but then the whole screen had every other pixel white (in addition, the first rows where completely white too)
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04:50:51cowonx5I will look at it under the scope tomorrow
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04:51:17jhMikeSSince it's white that means that the elements aren't receiving power
04:51:42cowonx5so that would mean that the lcd itself isn't really bad then?
04:52:37jhMikeSCan't be absolutely sure but it could be fine if the glass isn't broken in any way
04:53:56jhMikeSThe push test might reconnect some of the elements
04:53:57cowonx5yeah there's really no external damage to the outside; just a few scratches on the outer plastic screen but that's just with a years-worth of abuse
04:54:55cowonx5as a matter of fact, I will go get it right now (from work)...will be back in probably half an hour :)
04:55:06jhMikeSalright
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04:56:46hcsdoes it make sense that when I eat up all the CPU the batter meter goes very low, often to zero? is it not getting a chance to poll often enough?
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04:57:27*jhMikeS will go make a big espresso
04:57:35hcs*battery, and this is on an ipod color
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05:00
05:01:50Acorn'night
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05:12:30Davide-NYC'night
05:12:35 Quit Davide-NYC ("Chatzilla 0.9.75 [Firefox 1.5.0.7/2006090918]")
05:13:28jhMikeSmmm
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05:34:17cowonjhmike, I'm back
05:34:28cowonbut I can't get it to come on
05:34:35jhMikeShmm
05:34:36cowon(disassembled)
05:35:08jhMikeSYou had it working apart before, right?
05:35:44cowonnah I never powered it on during or after I took it apart
05:35:53cowonlet me try the ac
05:36:42jhMikeShmmm...should make sure all the battery lines are ok...I don't know if you have to make any grounding connections first
05:38:29jhMikeSIt might not be a good idea to power things up without a load on them. It's not good for some voltage regs.
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05:42:31cowonlol and I would disconnect my modem to plug in the ac adapter
05:42:49cowondamn unlabeled surge protector
05:43:08jhMikeSl
05:43:12cowonbut it must've been the battery, as I do see _something_ on the screen...
05:43:42***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
05:44:39cowontryin' to take a picture
05:44:59jhMikeSok...does pushing on the edge of the lcd make anything change?
05:45:43cowonyeah the colors will change but it's still randomness when it should be showing the stock iaudio "charging" screen
05:47:08cowonbad picture but it's my phone...http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/5175/10260622411in7.jpg
05:47:09jhMikeSThere's like 608 lines or something on that board.
05:47:52cowonthat top part is pure white
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05:49:05jhMikeSThat doesn't look anything like the first pic! Now you have colors on each column...
05:49:36cowonright the first pic was how it _started_...then the every-other-pixel thing progressed to the whole screen,...now it's this :(
05:49:57cowonwhen I turn it on the screen is all white...bad connection?
05:50:08cowonturn it on as in leave charging & start rb
05:51:32jhMikeShmmm...things don't look so good
05:52:01cowonnow everything's white no matter what I do :(
05:52:59jhMikeSThere's no connection to the display itself or now the data lines are bad
05:53:27cowonthe only thing that shows the lcd is getting something is when you press something & it illuminates the lcd, then my 5 sec. timeout turns the screen off (just like normal operation)
05:53:46cowonexcept you don't see anything but all-white when the screen is on
05:54:22jhMikeSthe backlight and lcd use different parts of the ribbon
05:55:57cowonlol looks like I just messed up the backlight signal line :(
05:56:13cowonnothingness now even though I _know_ it's on
05:56:13jhMikeSgotta be gentle :)
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05:59:35cowondoesn't seem like anything's wrong with the ribbon on the lcd though
06:00
06:00:07 Quit pagefault (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
06:00:50cowonyup, looks like I killed it lol
06:01:03jhMikeSThe LCD could have peeled away from its connection on the board over time
06:01:34cowonhmm...
06:01:44cowonI got nothin' to lose...
06:02:57jhMikeSsledge hammer?
06:03:21cowonlol nah net yet
06:03:35cowonI'm takin' that black plstic off the lcd
06:03:59Pajama-Bback
06:04:06cowon...which didn't make a difference
06:04:51jhMikeSnah that won't help...that's just improves contrast
06:05:04jhMikeSor you mean the surrounding thing?
06:05:29cowonyeah
06:05:51cowoncause I thought you meant the ribbon could be loose on the lcd-side
06:06:40jhMikeSIt you could at some time see an image then the ribbon was fine. If the white progressed over time I'd says the panel sort of peeled away from its connections.
06:08:03cowonso you say the problem's on the mainboard?
06:08:27cowonthe x5's circuit board
06:08:34jhMikeSOn the LCD board
06:09:14jhMikeSYou had an image but with some lines out so I'd say the data was getting to it just fine
06:09:35jhMikeSIf it didn't you couldn't even have a partial image
06:09:48cowonbut once I started messing with it, I totally killed it then, right?
06:09:53Pajama-Bdoes anyone know how long the battery life is on the iriver 100 series while recording
06:09:54cowonthis was all today
06:11:10cowonanything on the lcd I can test?
06:12:32cowonI just noticed something!
06:13:16cowonr3 & r4 on the back of the lcd are not there...I know sometimes they label the circuit board without putting the component there, but I guess I need to know if r3 & r4 are supposed to be there?
06:14:06jhMikeSI don't know really, there's dissasembly pics in the wiki
06:15:10 Quit jaebird ("Ex-Chat")
06:15:11jhMikeSIt appears they're absent, yes
06:15:36cowondamn...that sucks
06:17:07jhMikeSI'm not sure how to go about remounting the lcd display itself but it might be doable
06:17:46jhMikeSThen again you could have also split the layers themselves
06:18:39cowonwhat do you mean by remoutning & splitting layers?
06:18:58cowonis related to how lcd's work?
06:19:15jhMikeSwell, if the prob is on in the connection to the pcb itself maybe it could be checked and reset...
06:19:39jhMikeS...but if the layers in the display itself came apart then it's a goner
06:20:33cowonlooking close at the port that the ribbon connects to, it _seems_ that one of the pins looks a little crooked, but since they're really small, I'd have to check under a scope
06:21:57cowondamn my phone sucks as a camera
06:23:04jhMikeShmm...wonder what it costs to just send it back to cowon. Remove any traces of RB if you do.
06:23:44cowonyeah I've rma'd twice so far (damn mini-dock connector thing always shorts out)
06:24:09cowon(since it's so heavy for that small port when you have stuff connected to the mini-dock)
06:24:34cowoneach time they've reflashed it to
06:24:40cowoniaudio firmware
06:24:43jhMikeShaven't had any problems with mine and it's a year old and it gets a lot of pluggin from development
06:25:57cowonI think my main problem is when I have it hooked to my car (sitting on the seat flat) using the subpack & I got the line-out cable running...weighs it down
06:26:42cowonany subpack I plug in there's like no resistance whatsoever in insuring that the subpack doesn't come out of that port
06:28:23jhMikeSrubber band it to it :)
06:28:41jhMikeSwell...but won't help the lcd :(
06:29:54cowonlol never thought of that. right now I have a real dock so it at least sits vertical but that's only 'cause they sent me one when I got my x5 back from rma'ing the last time
06:30:46cowonyeah about the lcd...I guess my last resort is to inspect the pcb under a scope & use the tiny probes to check for continuity
06:31:33cowonotherwise, what's some x5 alternatives (60gb+)?
06:31:37cowonlol
06:32:23jhMikeSThe lines themselves are probably ok
06:32:52jhMikeSI don't know, I'm getting an H120 delivered Monday but that really has the stuff for recording
06:33:03Pajama-Bdid you get it used?
06:33:22jhMikeSnot really...manufacturer refurbished
06:33:23cowonnah mines was new from eCost
06:33:31Pajama-Bwhere can i get one new
06:33:38Pajama-B120 or 140
06:34:01cowonwhat's the capacity on the h120? 20gb?
06:34:06jhMikeSSome ebay sellers have them but it seems you'll pay throught the nose for it
06:34:06Pajama-Byeah
06:34:34cowondamn...that's too small for me; reason why I had the x5 was cause of the 60gb hdd
06:34:35jhMikeSThe one I got was supposed to be refurbished with a iRiver warranty
06:35:02jhMikeSWanna sell parts? I don't think that display is salvageable
06:35:28*jhMikeS will check the veracity of that claim and report it if its false
06:35:31Pajama-Bi got a 140 on ebay that was advertised as new but was used. they said i may have got a used one by mistake and that I could return it. but my friend bought from the same place and his was used all scratched up
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06:35:45Pajama-Bso i don't think i buy that they have new ones
06:36:33jhMikeSThe seller has a good rep and anything refurbished should definitely not be beaten up
06:36:43cowonyeah I don't mine making some money back
06:36:50myzarthe capacity is too small
06:36:50myzar:o
06:37:27cowonwent from a 10gb iPod->20gb rio->40gb (hdd upgraded)->60gb x5->60gb x5 with rockbox :)
06:37:35cowonrio karma
06:37:37Pajama-Bmy friend jsut got a 320. but i heard those are noisy when recording
06:37:39jhMikeS$20? It's good as a reference and maybe some spare parts.
06:39:04cowonI have about 200 gigs of music, the riaa is just waiting for me to surrender...it'd be cool if there were 100gb daps
06:39:16jhMikeSI'd like to design and build my own player actually. There's plenty of places to get boards made. Just fit it in an existing shell.
06:39:55Pajama-Bhow's the battery life recording on the 100 series?
06:40:30scorchecowon: i have 127 gigs of usable space on my archos recorder...
06:40:32jhMikeSPajama-B: Wish I knew but don't have it yet to know. :)
06:40:40blackthunder42i was wondering if i could get write access for wiki to post my themes?
06:40:44Pajama-BI'm worried about being in a public place and having to go into menus when I want to record. and I have it in my pocket or something
06:40:53jhMikeS127gigs on the archos? lol
06:41:06scorchei put a 160 gig drive in there =)
06:41:38jhMikeSscorche: what else would that drive fit into?
06:41:45cowonscorche, how big is the unit as a whole?? or what size (dimension-=wise) is the hdd?
06:41:48scorchelaptop?
06:42:13Pajama-Bhow much did you pay for your 120?
06:42:26scorchecowon: it is a large unit by todays terms...and it is a regular 2.5" hard drive
06:42:38jhMikeS$120 which the max I was willing to
06:42:56Pajama-Bi paid 180 for my 40
06:42:58jhMikeSThat's shipping and everything
06:42:58scorchePajama-B: it is actually a 160 gig hard drive...the archos hardware cannot address sectors above 127 GB though
06:43:29*jhMikeS subtracts shipping from his max bid amount
06:43:33cowonscorche, yeah that's pretty huge...I'd break that in a second
06:43:37scorchewell, it is one of the seagate perpendicular drives....it was 300 ish when i got it
06:43:42scorchei got it for $60
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06:44:27scorcheso i dont mind losing the rest of the space one bit =)
06:45:09blackthunder42hi, I was wondering if i could get write access for wiki to post my themes?
06:45:12jhMikeSShipping was $20 so I just bid $100 and let it go
06:45:31scorcheblackthunder42: we heard you the first time...what is you wiki name?
06:45:37Pajama-BI just want something new. I didn't think there were new ones around anymore
06:45:42blackthunder42sorry, coreycook
06:45:50scorchePajama-B: new what?
06:45:55Pajama-Bh 100 series
06:46:12scorcheyeah...you would have a pretty hard time trying to find one new
06:46:31jhMikeSThere were a few from australia with remotes and all
06:46:42Pajama-Byeah i saw those
06:47:12Pajama-Bshould i have gotten one of those?
06:47:29scorcheblackthunder42: done
06:47:35Pajama-Bi was thinking it wouldn't come with a power supply or something
06:47:35jhMikeSI don't know...they seemed like too much
06:48:02blackthunder42thank you!
06:48:12jhMikeSThe one I got is supposed to have the AC adapter, case, etc. No remote though.
06:48:32cowonso the archos recorder wins in terms of capacity since you can throw any 2.5" drive in there?
06:48:51myzarhttp://www.lapinator.net/flash/Wryyyyyowned/alcohol-wry.swf
06:48:52myzarWRYyyyyyyy
06:49:00jhMikeS127GB archos...kinda nuts...my x5 60GB is only half full
06:49:04scorchecowon: yep
06:49:11jhMikeSlittle more than that actually
06:49:40scorchejhMikeS: heh...the worst part of it, is that i originally threw it in the one that didnt have usb 2.0
06:50:58cowonhmm...looks like I'll be looking for one...but what's the newest one?
06:51:18jhMikeSlol...apparantly you can throw a steamroller if you're drunk enought though
06:51:18scorchecowon: keep in mind that they can only decode mp3
06:51:23scorchethey are pretty old units
06:51:47scorcheone of, if not the first high density mp3 players
06:51:54jhMikeSArchos units look a bit bizarre too...kind of like Nike shoes
06:52:03scorche...they do?
06:52:16jhMikeSSo colorful
06:52:18cowonscorche, I thought rockbox works on them?
06:52:25scorchecowon: it does
06:52:35scorchebut it isnt a SWcodec device
06:52:52scorchein otherwords, it decodes in hardware and not software
06:52:53cowonintegrated mp3 decode chip?
06:53:06jhMikeSThe x5 looks like a 70's Sony cassette recorder I had though...it's retro
06:53:26cowonso does that mean ogg won't work on it under rockbox?
06:53:43scorchejhMikeS: and mine isnt colorful...it is one fo the black ones...i couldnt stand the blue =P
06:53:50scorchecowon: correct
06:54:22jhMikeSThe H100 series, esp. in black is about the best looking design to me.
06:54:44cowondamn, then that's out the question :(
06:55:07Pajama-Bi love how people put rockbox in the descriptions lol
06:55:34scorchethen wait until drives get up that high or wait for a device that uses 2.5" hard drives
06:55:41scorchethey just went up to 80
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06:55:53jhMikeSPajama-B: On ebay?
06:55:58Pajama-Byeah
06:56:26jhMikeSDon't think it mentioned it in the auction for mine.
06:56:52Pajama-BI've seen some with rockbox on already
06:56:53cowonI have bad days when I don't have my dap with me lol
06:57:08cowonI would hate to go back to CDs
06:57:24cowonthey're deprecated :)
06:59:05jhMikeSindeed...I waited so many years for tech to catch up with what I wanted for music
07:00
07:00:04jhMikeSI'm wondering when the remotes will become wireless or are those already available on something?
07:01:00scorchedepends on what you define as a "remote
07:01:04scorche"
07:01:06cowonan mp3-cd would do but
07:01:35cowonrio karma had ethernet with a web interface...sounds like wirless remote to me
07:02:41 Quit cowon ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
07:02:59jhMikeSethernet isn't wireles. What I want is a digital transmitter from the main unit with the DAC in place in the remote.
07:04:26jhMikeSWith a color screen too. I'm sure it will happen when a small enough batter can handle that.
07:05:31jhMikeSBut I don't doubt that 100s of gigabytes will be available on a keychain sized thing too anyway.
07:09:18hcsthen we'll all just be emulating PC media players on our DAPs
07:10:52jhMikeSyup...I got some looks when I said people would pay money get music over digital lines back in the 80s in high school
07:11:26jhMikeSIt sort of exceeded my expectations at that
07:11:44hcsand I only got crazy looks when cartwheeling down the hallway
07:12:05hcsshoulda tried prognosticatio
07:12:07hcsn
07:12:31jhMikeSlol...I think I have to get some money working for me and not the other way
07:13:14hcsjhMikeS: Professional Futurist
07:13:26hcsOk, buddy, we'll pay ya tomorrow.
07:16:03jhMikeShmmm....
07:16:44jhMikeSI'll set it up so anyone can send me money if they like :) That's a start...feel free!
07:17:47scorchejhMikeS: include a withdraw function as well
07:18:43jhMikeSscorche: I will for myself
07:19:51scorche...and anyone else who enters an amount, recieving account number and bank, and who presses the button
07:22:23jhMikeSno just me :) How bout 5% cash back on every deposit?
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07:30:10anrdewmelhi all
07:30:28anrdewmelcan somebody tell me the version of the make command that creates error.txt
07:32:08anrdewmelin vmware that is :)
07:37:02jhMikeSHmmmm....why does the build master think I did something 63 minutes ago when it was like 5 minutes ago? Doesn't seem to calculate the times correctly.
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07:43:20anrdewmelI am having a similar problem when I compile in vmware after a crash. computer time is 16:35 or thereabouts, but files written as about 12:27
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07:46:40jhMikeSIs sweden GMT -1?
07:47:19scorche+1
07:49:09jhMikeSEvery seems an hour off GMT or maybe that's just when done here
07:50:53anrdewmelwhen you guys are writing code, how do you work? my question is based around it taking over 10 minutes for each compile to test an incremental change in code....
07:51:29scorche10 min?
07:51:31scorchewow
07:51:38scorchewhat is your processor?
07:51:41hcsyou don't have to clean everything every time...
07:51:43anrdewmel1.6
07:52:03anrdewmeli am working on metronome.c, is there a way I can just compile that?
07:52:11anrdewmel1.6 MHz that is
07:52:15scorcheand yeah...as hcs said, if you dont clean it all, it will just compile the things that have changed
07:52:16hcs!
07:52:24scorchesurely you mean Ghz
07:52:35anrdewmellol, yes.
07:52:39anrdewmelGhz
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07:58:18jhMikeSI do a full rebuild in maybe 5min but it's 2.4Ghz
07:58:56anrdewmelCan you please tell me the make command that will create an error file?
07:59:50jhMikeSI wish I knew myself...can't you just redirect output with ">" ?
08:00
08:00:25hcsor 2> if its on stderr
08:00:54hcswhich it is, so yeah
08:00:55anrdewmelso that is "make 2> error.txt" ?
08:00:58jhMikeSgood tip. how many "x>" are there
08:01:05hcsright
08:01:10anrdewmelthanks :)
08:01:28hcsjhMikeS: it's the number of the file descriptor
08:01:38hcsstderr is on 2
08:01:58jhMikeSyou just have stdin, stdout, stderr per usual then
08:02:43hcsyeah, > is stdout, < is stdin, 2> is stderr
08:03:08jhMikeShow would you send it say, directly to the printer? :)
08:04:22hcsgood question, I don't know how to pipe stderr to something
08:04:23jhMikeSI'm guessing > /dev/printer or something?
08:04:46hcsthat might work, I was thinking of sending it to lpr, though
08:06:30hcsafaict bash only pipes from stout to stdin
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08:06:38hcs*stdout
08:06:54jhMikeSI just tried "echo hello world! > /dev/audio" and I got sound! lol
08:07:02hcsheh
08:07:06jhMikeSjust clicks
08:07:33hcstry a headerless, uncompressed wav
08:07:39jhMikeScan do
08:10:05jhMikeSwhat command outputs the raw data?
08:10:20hcsdd if=blah.wav of=/dev/audio
08:10:37hcsI have absolutely no idea what will come of this...
08:11:44jhMikeSnot bach that's for sure
08:11:49jhMikeSbut sound
08:11:53amiconnanrdewmel: Wow, 10 minutes for a full build in vmware?
08:12:22scorchehehe...what i said
08:12:39amiconnMy debian VM takes ~3 minutes for a swcodec sim or target build
08:13:02amiconnThat is on an 1.5GHz Pentium M and a laptop hdd
08:13:27amiconncygwin takes 20..30 minutes on the same machine...
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08:15:44anrdewmelyep, but after the crash it seems quicker. I will time it again on the next one. just just started a new one, after forgetting to un-comment a new procedure....
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08:17:29amiconnPerhaps it's a ram problem. How much ram does your host have?
08:18:40scorche2 min even on an opteron 175 while encoding music...
08:20:08anrdewmel4:19, I have 512 Mb
08:20:58anrdewmelbut it crashed, so that time might not be valid....
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08:36:54amiconnjhMikeS: Do you think the same button read magic could be added to the H300?
08:37:25amiconnI wouldn't have come up with _that_ idea, but iirc there's another possible optimisation in the X5 button driver.
08:40:28amiconnAh, this optimisation is almost done for normal operation
08:40:45jhMikeSamiconn: I don't know. I thought you couldn't get interrupts from the pmu
08:41:45jhMikeSI was thinking about switching levels on the accessory detection.
08:42:02jhMikeSSo it would only read on a change
08:42:04anrdewmelyep, 10 minutes to compile :(
08:42:23amiconnWe can, it's just GPI6 instead of GPI0 :)
08:42:42amiconnhttp://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/PortPinAssignments
08:44:57amiconnBtw, target specific declarations should go into adc-target.h
08:45:24amiconn(referring to the #ifdef IAUDIO_X% at the end of adc.h
08:45:34amiconn*IAUDIO_X5
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08:47:24jhMikeSwoops, can move it about np
08:47:56jhMikeSamiconn: what other opt did you have in mind?
08:48:50amiconnIt's already there
08:48:58jhMikeSoh
08:49:12jhMikeSthe combining of the constants?
08:49:34amiconnBtw, for th eremote button read, I think it woul dbe better to check the presence in button_read_device() instead of having adc_read() manipulate the value
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08:50:27amiconnThe effect would be the same, but it would be more obvious what's going on
08:50:55jhMikeSI suppose and would save a function call on the rapid polling
08:52:07jhMikeSToo bad the other adcs don't have that
08:53:05jhMikeSamiconn: You never answered if the H300 can get PMU interrupts.
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08:54:44jhMikeSoh...never mind. you did
08:56:22amiconnHow do you mean the other adcs don't have that?
08:58:08jhMikeSOnly ADC2 has the comparator. There's only one accessory insert register ACDC1 in the pcf.
08:58:42amiconnah, hmm
08:58:56*amiconn hopes h300 buttons are connected to the 'right' adc
08:59:06jhMikeSoh...I forgot about the battery. it has one too
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09:00
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09:02:30amiconnAH, buttons are on channel 5 (adcin2) on H300 as well :)
09:03:01amiconnRemote buttons are on channel 6, and battery on channel 0 (also same as X5)
09:03:29amiconnH300 just uses one more channel (channel 2, adcin1) for remote type detection
09:06:22jhMikeSguess it will port over then :)
09:07:27*jhMikeS almost thinks it's deliberately wired that way
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09:17:19jhMikeSWell, I added the manipulation for the remote there because you need to scan the ADC for the hold button as well. adc_read doesn't work correctly.
09:18:05jhMikeSWell, doesn't work correctly for the use in the backlight code anyway.
09:18:43amiconn?
09:21:54jhMikeSUsing adc_read with a cached value didn't get the right value for the backlight off on hold behavior when calling remote_button_hold. I don't remember the specifics. I didn't want to place more checking for remote presence in other spots but I guess it's not a big deal to do that.
09:23:53*jhMikeS could set remote_button_hold to use adc_read to remind himself
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09:35:18jhMikeShmmm....and the H100/H300 button read functions are all conjoined.
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09:56:50jhMikeSI can also see now that bypassing the lcd writing with the bl off has a pretty good effect on boost ratio as well.
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10:01:27markunjhMikeS: how do you check that with the LCD writing off?
10:04:41jhMikeSIf i leave my test mp3 playing with EQ enabled, I get about 5% boost. If I turn the backlight off with the hold switch and let it play for a bit, I see 0% when it first comes on.
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10:35:43Famicomgood morning
10:37:33Famicomanyone help me? I shut down my iPOD, restarted by pressing and hold 'Menu' button, until "loading original firmware" (or similar) appeared. Now I can't make rockbox come back...:(
10:38:08scorchehave you restarted the device?
10:38:47Famicomhow? that's what I can't do...I mean, don't know how to do it
10:39:33scorcheim sure a google search for "restart ipod" would show up a lot of correct results...
10:40:14FamicomI created a file called '_short_deepsleep', following the instructions found by google...but nothing happened
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10:42:15scorchewhere did you see that?...the first 5 results all dictate exactly what the key combination is...
10:43:21scorchewell, regardless, if for some odd reason you still havent found it, you hold menu+select ;)
10:43:33FamicomI actually considered shutting down first, not rebooting directly
10:43:55Famicomnow I've found what yo say ;)
10:44:00scorchethere really isnt a way to shutdown the apple firmware afaik
10:45:10Famicomok, thanks
10:47:33BHSPitLappyI guess you could put it to sleep first, and then not feel so guilty about the reset.
10:47:41BHSPitLappythough the reset probably wakes it up anyway.
10:48:04BHSPitLappylike waking up to find someone holding a pillow firmly over your face.
10:48:08BHSPitLappypoor apple firmware.
10:48:20scorchehaha
10:49:32scorchewell, we dont treat it much better...we reduce it to loading its better, smarter replacement and then tell it to speak only when spoken to
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11:00
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11:02:28Nimdaemeh, i can't seem to download a valid zip file for the latest cvs build for ipod video :S
11:03:04Bagderand with "valid" you mean?
11:03:14Nimdaeoh i figured out what's going on
11:03:20Nimdaemy browser is retarded
11:03:24Bagderah
11:03:56Nimdaethere we go
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11:09:10Paul_the_NerdThat often seems to be the case.
11:09:23Nimdaewell
11:09:30Nimdaeit was less the browser and more the user ;)
11:09:42Paul_the_NerdThat too. ;)
11:10:06Nimdaebut the browser did play a part
11:10:21*Bagder is involved in a project called 'Badger'
11:10:25scorcheit did what you told it to do! =O
11:10:28Bagderhighly confusing
11:10:37Nimdaescorche: technically, yes
11:10:47Nimdaebut it changed something on me unexpectedly
11:10:57scorcheBagder: they spelt it worng
11:11:00Nimdaeand i didn't pay attention
11:11:07Bagderyeah, bastards
11:13:55scorchevery off topic, but has anyone heard of tying together asterisk and skype?
11:14:13Nimdaeis that possible?
11:14:27scorchethat is what i was wondering
11:14:39Nimdaei don't think it is
11:14:41scorcheusing skype as a trunk or extension
11:15:04Nimdaeskype uses a proprietary format and protocol
11:15:25scorchethat hasnt stopped a good many other things ;)
11:15:31Nimdaeright
11:15:38Nimdaebut asterisk would have to directly implement it
11:15:47Nimdaeit's not impossible, the skype protocol has been cracked, heh
11:16:35Nimdaewhat format are the fonts in on rockbox?
11:16:44BagderNimdae: custom Rockbox format
11:16:57Nimdaemeh :P
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11:17:15Nimdaeis there an editor?
11:17:33Bagderconvbdf converts bdf fonts to the internal format
11:17:38scorchethere is a convertor
11:17:44scorcheaye...above
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11:18:01Nimdaethere we go, found the wiki page
11:18:28Nimdaei'll mess with this tomorrow, need to sleep
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11:40:25anrdewmelwondering if there is the ability to monitor the variable values in a line by line execution of a plugin?
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12:16:58anrdewmelhi, anybody able to help me with the vmware simulator?
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12:24:06Quazgaaanrdewmel: whats that got to do with anything
12:25:32anrdewmelI am trying to run a 5G iPod simulator but there are no button assignments in the wiki. I have worked many of them out now.
12:25:57Quazgaanifty
12:26:01anrdewmeli have edited metronome.c and am trying to test in on the sim, it works, (well it runs) on my iPod but not on the sim
12:26:24tucozanrdewmel, if you run the sim with -background you'll see the button assignments
12:26:30anrdewmeli get an imcompatible model error message
12:26:36anrdewmelthanks
12:26:49Bagderanrdewmel: did you 'make install' before you run rockboxui ?
12:27:02anrdewmelyes i did
12:28:15anrdewmelthat is looking much better.
12:29:43anrdewmelthe scroll wheel buttons on the image (8 for clockwise and 2 for counter clockwise) are reversed in the sim
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12:38:43anrdewmel4 and 6 (left and right) are back the front in brickmania
12:38:58anrdewmelshould these be in a bug report?
12:40:17tucozhmm. i wonder if metronome can be used in the sim at all. i get a incompatible model in the h120 sim as well
12:43:48Bagdermarkun: what i2c_send() function is the gigabeat bootloader supposed to use?
12:44:23markunBagder: are you talking about a commit by me?
12:44:38BagderI'm talking about the second warning in the gigabeat build
12:44:52tucozI think i was right. the entire metronome.c file is within a #if !defined(SIMULATOR)
12:45:22markunBagder: it is used by the wmcodec code to talk to the DAC
12:45:47tucozBagder, what do you think is best. let the plugin file handle inlusion, or the SOURCES file?
12:46:31Bagdermarkun: but where is that i2c_send() function? I mean, why do we get that warning
12:46:50Bagdertucoz: the cygwin people like it when the SOURCES file do it since it'll make a faster build
12:46:58markunIt's in target/arm/gigabeat/meg-fx/i2c-meg-fx.c
12:47:00BagderI mean, those who build with cygwin
12:47:12Bagderaha
12:47:14Bagderthanks
12:47:23tucozOk. would it be ok if metronome were excluded from sim builds then?
12:47:31Bagderindeed
12:47:34tucozok
12:50:39anrdewmeltucoz, and you explain to me in simple terms why the metronome cant run in the sim?
12:50:49Bagdermarkun: would you mind if I add a i2c-meg-fx.h with that prototype, to fix the warning?
12:51:00markunnot at all
12:51:59tucozanrdewmel, i have no idea why. but the entire metronome.c source code is excluded from the sim builds.
12:52:14BagderI think that's due to the timer it uses
12:52:19tucozstill a .rock file is built. I guess that .rock file contains very little.
12:52:41tucozaha
12:55:03anrdewmelback to testing on my ipod i guess :)
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12:56:16preglowso, anyone got any opinions on whether i should commit the fixing of rockbox' current disfunct dithering support, or just delete what code there is? might be some golden-eared persons out there that'll appreciate it
12:57:25preglowthink i'll just commit and see what people say anyway
12:57:34tucozcould you explain dithering to a rookie like me?
12:57:49tucozin this context that is
12:57:54markuntucoz: http://www.personal.uni-jena.de/~pfk/mpp/dither.html
12:58:05tucozmarkun, thanks :)
12:58:10psiborgwhat is dithering?
12:58:18markunpsiborg: check the link
12:58:19z3rohi, just wondering if davidc__ frequents this channel. nickserv reports he was last online 4 hours ago, and google shows him here in the logs. I'd like to collaborate with him and his jtag stuff.
12:58:30psiborgokay thanks, will do that :)
12:59:11*psiborg would like to dive into to rockbox code, where do i start?
12:59:14markunpsiborg: maybe wikipedia has a clearer article
12:59:34tucozpsiborg, that depends on what you would like to accomplish
12:59:43Bagderpsiborg: check it out from CVS, load whatever you're interested in into an editor and read
12:59:53markunpsiborg: you can start by reading the rockbox documentation on how to compile a rockbox simulator
13:00
13:00:20tucozfix bugs, add features, review patches, adapt plugins to larger/colour displays etc
13:01:14*Bagder scored -2 points
13:02:05 Quit barrywardell ()
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13:03:36tucozcongratulations :)
13:03:53psiborginteresting :)
13:04:38markunBagder: I'll try to keep out the warnings with my next commits
13:04:39psiborgi would like to just look around at first :)
13:05:21preglowtucoz: only reason i'm a bit sceptical to commit it is because i can't possibly hear its effects, but since the code was already in, i figured...
13:05:46tucozI got a compiler error when building rockbox for coldfire. Is this known? http://pastebin.ca/224382
13:06:00tucoz3.4.4 is the version
13:06:29tucozpreglow, ok. but i was just curious to what dithering was.
13:06:47tucozi do not think i would hear a difference in any case
13:07:09Bagdertucoz: yes, 3.4.4 has a bug iirc
13:07:17tucozok. then i should update
13:07:39tucozi guess the rockboxdev.sh script will help me?
13:08:11Bagderyeps
13:08:21Bagderjust run it and lean back
13:11:14amiconnanrdewmel: metronome cannot be built fo rthe sim because it uses the user timer, which isn't simulated
13:13:34anrdewmelamiconn: is that this line
13:13:42tucozBagder, that script is really great. nice.
13:13:48*Bagder bows
13:14:28anrdewmelrb->timer_register(1, NULL, TIMER_FREQ/1024, 1, timer_callback);
13:18:50tucozis it ok if we stopped building the favourites plugin as well, as the exact thing can be done by using the playlist catalog?
13:19:02BagderI think so
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13:19:42tucozok. linuxstb also agreed a while ago, so i can do that soon.
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13:31:30Blackfishhi
13:31:39tucozhello
13:31:45markunBagder: are there any portalplayer targets not using target_tree?
13:32:37Blackfishcan someone please help me?
13:32:48markunBlackfish: with what?
13:33:00Blackfishrockbox installation
13:33:08Blackfishthe manual says: Make a backup of the H10 20GC.mi4 file in the System directory on your H10.
13:33:27Blackfishbut there ist no H10 20GC.mi4 file
13:33:38tucozBlackfish, maybe that file is hidden
13:33:53markunany other .mi4 file?
13:34:10BlackfishH10.mi4
13:34:29tucozdo you own a 20GB or a 5/6GB?
13:34:33Blackfish20gb
13:34:34tucozok
13:35:20Blackfishim trying to get this running for 2 hours
13:35:59tucozdo you show hidden files?
13:36:33Blackfishyes
13:37:07tucozok
13:37:28Blackfishmy player is mtp but i flashed it ums
13:37:33Bagdermarkun: I'm not really sure
13:37:37Blackfishbut now its mtp again
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13:40:21tucozBlackfish, did you do that ums trick to show it as a regular disk?
13:40:42Blackfishwith o+power?
13:41:05tucozprobably. http://download.rockbox.org/manual/rockbox-h10/rockbox-buildch2.html#x4-100002.2.2
13:41:06markunBagder: I just check and the answer is yes.
13:41:21markunBagder: Is it ok if I move the defines from ata.c to ata-target.h?
13:41:26Bagderindeed
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13:42:58tucozBlackfish, you should come back when barrywardell is around. it is he who ported rockbox to the H10.
13:43:12Blackfishhmm ok
13:43:14tucozor drop a note in the forums
13:43:56***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
13:44:08Blackfishit says "emergency connect"
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14:00
14:06:02Stalwartthere's a bug (feature?) with ipod nano
14:06:27BagderI bet there are more than one
14:06:32Stalwartvolume control step is so tiny that i need 5-10 revolutions to make volume higher
14:07:00Stalwarti'll try to fix it
14:08:48markunStalwart: several revolutions for 1 db?
14:09:58 Quit linuxstb (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
14:10:24 Join linuxstb [0] (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
14:11:12pregloweh, no
14:11:16preglowyou need just a tick for one db
14:11:24preglowwith a couple of db being noticable
14:15:45markunpreglow: howmany ticks per revolution?
14:15:51preglowcan't remember
14:16:24preglowi went from -14 to -32 in one revolution
14:16:49preglowbut i agree we should have some kind of acceleration scheme for settings
14:16:52preglowthis one included
14:17:02preglowif you move your finger really fast, the setting should also change fast
14:17:06preglowbeats me how to implement it nicely :>
14:17:44Bagderlet's see how Stalwart implements that! ;-P
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14:20:01Stalwarti think i'll implement it by making acceleration multiplier
14:20:18Stalwartsomething like 5x for me and 2x for normal people
14:21:06Stalwartbut accellerating laptop touchpad style is also nice idea, i'll think about it ;)
14:21:28Stalwarti also need to make theme that doesn't suck
14:21:38Bagderhaha
14:22:14Stalwarthttp://thestalwart.livejournal.com/101059.html << photos of rocked nano ;)
14:23:01Stalwartjust curious - can i play videos on nano? =P~
14:23:17markunyes
14:23:24markunbut without sound for now
14:23:40Stalwart=\
14:23:42*linuxstb wants to fix that...
14:23:52markunStalwart: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/PluginMpegplayer
14:23:53Stalwartit's done via ffmpeg?
14:23:58markunno
14:24:12linuxstbAt the moment, we're using libmpeg2
14:24:47linuxstbBut porting other video codecs (either different MPEG-2 implementations or other formats) would be nice to do.
14:25:02Stalwartafaik ffmpeg is best codec lib so far
14:25:22linuxstbDefine "best". Rockbox is different from a desktop computer.
14:25:46Stalwart=\
14:25:58linuxstbBut I agree ffmpeg shouldn't be ignored.
14:26:10linuxstbWe already use the FLAC and Shorten audio decoders from ffmpeg.
14:27:17Stalwarti was hacking around plugins today - there are plugins i can't exit without rebooting whole ipod
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14:29:50linuxstbThere shouldn't be - either MENU or SELECT+MENU should exit. Which are giving problems?
14:32:11anrdewmelI had the same problem exiting plugins in the simulator a little while ago.
14:32:16anrdewmelsnake, for one
14:35:02preglowi want wheel acceleration retailos style
14:35:10preglowit's one of the few things they do right
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14:36:36Stalwartwtf is retailos?
14:36:51 Quit hcs (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
14:36:55peturretail operating system?
14:37:05 Join Acorn [0] (n=irc@82-35-97-118.cable.ubr05.dals.blueyonder.co.uk)
14:37:14peturapple software on your ipod?
14:37:30Acornhmm.. how do people organise their music when an album has 2 artists?
14:37:31Stalwarti didn't read the source yet, can i change menu structure?
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14:38:22peturAcorn: they must be very egocentric not to call themselves a band...
14:38:36linuxstbStalwart: Not that easily at the moment, but I think there's a patch being worked on which has that side-effect.
14:39:11linuxstb(but it depends how radically you want to change it)
14:39:45Acornpetur: haha.. well.. just an album with two separate artists doing a few songs each..
14:39:59AcornScientist with Roots Radics - Dub In The Roots Tradition 1996
14:40:09AcornScientist & Crucial Bunny - Dub Duel [hawkeye] 1982
14:40:20Acornetc.
14:40:51Stalwartlinuxstb: i want to change it VERY radically
14:41:14Stalwarti have my own overfucked up POV to unterfaces =\
14:42:50Acornbecause I've been organising my music aritist/album..
14:42:59Acornbut what do I do when there's more than one album?
14:43:06Acornand what should I put in the tags?
14:43:59peturAcorn: no idea, haven't encountered the situation yet. For guest artists I put a ; between the names (I think), most stuff I use understands this
14:44:24*petur is not sure about rockbox
14:45:02linuxstbAcorn: In the directory structure, I would put it under the main artist, but put both artists in the tag. So "Scientists/1996-Dub In The Roots Tradition", with the tags saying "Scientists with Roots Radics"
14:45:41Stalwartmy friend has nano 2G, when rockbox will be available for 2G?
14:45:46preglowdamn, my ccache dir was 500 megs...
14:45:52preglowStalwart: not for a long time
14:46:09preglowStalwart: apple switches out all the important hardware, encrypted the os and glued the chips to the circuit board
14:46:15linuxstbStalwart: The Nano 2G is a completely different beast to other ipods. Only the name and physical appearance are the same.
14:47:43Acornlinuxstb: thanks.. I think I'll do that..
14:48:18Bagderpreglow: ccache -M to change max size
14:48:29preglowBagder: cool, thanks
14:48:49preglowit also took _ages_ to delete
14:48:50preglowhahaha
14:48:58preglowbut that's fine
14:49:10Bagderfiles in cache 70528
14:49:10Bagdercache size 860.5 Mbytes
14:49:10Bagdermax cache size 976.6 Mbytes
14:54:35Acornlinuxstb: hmm.. would you have the "Scientist vs Crucial Bunny" bit in the album title?
14:54:41preglowoooh, dub
14:54:59Acornpreglow: heehee yes..
14:55:09 Quit Siku ()
14:56:19anrdewmeldoes this line
14:56:21anrdewmel rb->timer_register(1, NULL, TIMER_FREQ/1024, 1, timer_callback);
14:56:34anrdewmelcause the function timer_callback to be run?
14:56:43Acorn"Scientist/Scientist vs Crucial Bunny - Dub Duel/Crucial, Crucial, Scientist, Scientist" or "Scientist/Dub Duel/Crucial, Crucial, Scientist, Scientist"
14:56:47Acorn?
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14:57:11Bagderanrdewmel: yes
14:57:38anrdewmelthanks :)
14:57:42linuxstbAcorn: No, just in the artist tag. I don't need to know that information when I'm browsing the filetree, but it's nice to have it displayed in the WPS when the track is playing.
14:57:44anrdewmelstarting to become more clear
14:58:59anrdewmelI have a link to the graphicsAPI wiki page, but for the life of me cant find the other pages that contain other rb internal calls, or a page that indexs them. is there such a thing?
14:59:24 Quit Arathis ("[rl_bot quit]")
15:00
15:00:25Acornlinuxstb: yay
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15:02:32Acornlinuxstb: how do you organise your multi CD albums?
15:02:40tucozanrdewmel, there is the plugin.h file
15:02:56webguest95Hello.... can i connect the iAudio X5 with a television.. is there a way to do this?
15:03:03Bagderno
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15:03:12markunAcorn: I just put them in 1 folder and continue the numbering from the previous CD
15:03:21linuxstbAcorn: At the moment, just as two separate albums - i.e. "Album Name - CD 1" and "Album Name - CD2", but I would like a better way.
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15:04:02linuxstbI've been thinking of doing the same as markun, but I don't have many such albums anyway.
15:05:46linuxstbFrom the filebrowser, you could just call then 101-Track Name.ext, 102-Track Name.ext for disc 1, and 201-Track Name.ext etc for disc 2. But you can't show that info in the WPS without misusing the track number tag.
15:05:52AcornHmm.. so you don't have them as subfolders of the album?
15:06:22Acornyeah.. that's how the files arrived on my computer =)
15:06:42linuxstbNo, but as I said, I don't have many such albums. However, I do have some bootleg live recordings which span CDs, and in those cases, I sometimes have "cd1" and "cd2" subdirectories.
15:06:43Acornis there an easy way to play the contents of a folder in rockbox?
15:07:02Acorn..including subfolders..
15:07:08linuxstbBut my bootleg collection isn't as well organised as the studio CDs I've ripped myself.
15:07:53linuxstbYes, turn on the "recursively insert subdirectories" playlist option. Then you can insert a folder (and all subfolders) into the playlist.
15:08:12Acornwow.. long word..
15:08:32Acornrockbox is the best..
15:08:45Acornhow can you view the playlist?
15:08:55 Quit solarflare ("Leaving")
15:09:04peturuse the quickmenu
15:09:31Acornquickmenu?
15:09:43peturdevice?
15:09:59Acornh300
15:10:04peturhold navi
15:10:16petur(long press)
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15:12:58Acornthanks..
15:13:05Acornwhat's this party mode that I've heard about?
15:13:34peturit prevents any action from stopping the music playback
15:13:44Acornand how do you insert a track at a cirtain point in your playlist without it instantly playing that track?
15:14:18*petur is no playlist expert ;)
15:14:24Acornpetur: sounds usefull.. don't want to kill the vibe..
15:14:33amiconnHolding Navi brings up the context menu
15:14:44amiconnQuickmenu is sth different
15:15:08 Quit solarflare (Client Quit)
15:15:11Acornhow do you clear the playlist?
15:15:19Acornamiconn: I don't understand..
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15:16:34amiconnanrdewmel: Afaik there are no other pages describing internal rockbox functions. The GraphicsAPI page is sort of an exception, partially because it developed from a proposal
15:17:15anrdewmelso how do I get to understand the calls that are available, and their syntax?
15:17:21Acornand how do you leave the "search in playlist" thing without stopping your music?
15:17:44peturAcorn: Left
15:18:18Acornpetur: nope.. that just navigates through the symbols..
15:18:35peturah... sorry, never used that
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15:18:54peturAcorn: read the manual already?
15:19:18Acornmanual? oh yeah.. that thing :P
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15:20:06linuxstbanrdewmel: Most functions in Rockbox are just POSIX, so the standard documentation should apply. As for others, you will just need to look at the source... Or ask questions here about what is available.
15:20:57Acornpetur: hmm.. i searched it for "search in playlist" and there were no results..
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15:27:34Acornbingo.. found the h300 rockbox manual :D
15:30:40Acornhmm.. still can't figure out how to put a track at a specific point in the playlist.. you can add it after the currently playing track.. or at the end of the playlist.. and you can move it anywhere once it's been placed.. but is it possible to insert it at a specific point?
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15:32:31lowlightpondlife: you around?
15:34:36anrdewmelthanks linuxstb. my programming skills are very rusty, I have done little since two years of undergrad in the mid 80's, but am starting to get the hang of it :)
15:34:54tucozAcorn, I know it is hard to understand the playlist. But, there is a thread somewhere in the forum that desribes it.
15:35:14AcornI'll check it out..
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15:35:39markunanrdewmel: how's your nick pronounced?
15:36:03lowlightha ha... http://www.msfirefox.com/
15:36:21pondlifelowlight: yes, but busy :(
15:37:34lowlightpondlife: I've got a question when you have a chance...I found what causes the stopping bug, but I think my solution might cause another problem.
15:37:49Acorn"It would be nice to be able to add any song at any time to any previously created playlist" not possible?
15:38:09pondlifelowlight: Ask away
15:38:18aliaskAcorn: Take a look at the playlist catalog
15:38:58Acornit says "no playlists"
15:39:21aliaskWhere?
15:39:45AcornI just want to stick a song in the right place in my playlist without having to put it there and then move it..
15:39:57Acornaliask: when I go to playlist catalog..
15:40:12*pondlife wonders if tagcache should add playlists to the playlist catalog. urgh.
15:40:45Acornaliask: not possible?
15:41:01aliaskAcorn: You can't put a song into a specific place in a playlist from the filebrowser
15:41:09tucozAcorn, this is the thread that explains insert etc. http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=6535.0
15:41:16anrdewmelmarkun, its andrew followed by mel :)
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15:41:50*aliask tries to say annerdew-mel
15:42:08pondlifeLike honeydew mel-on
15:42:23*pondlife needs to lunch
15:42:36lowlightpondlife: the bug is that during the last track of a playlist, the queue can be flooded with fill_buffer requests on each advance_buffer call (which is after every decoded frame)
15:42:36tucozyum. melon
15:42:57pondlifelowlight: : Do you know why?
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15:43:31lowlightpondlife: I've seen cases of 30-40 fill buffer queues...but the queue only has 16 unique queue slots
15:43:48markunanrdewmel: ah, the swapped d and r were confusing me :)
15:43:57***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
15:44:00pondlifeYuck
15:44:36pondlifeAh, it's the pcmbuf_is_lowdata() test
15:44:37lowlightpondlife: but the thread tries to process all of the events (30-40); however, it's really only looping over the last 16
15:45:04lowlightpondlife: that's why I was seeing multiple check_new_track events when only one was queued
15:45:04pondlifeA bug in the queue code?
15:45:07anrdewmelha, hadnt noticed :)
15:45:41pondlifeI thought is was an homage to bagder
15:45:58lowlightpondlife: no...I think the solution is to not send a fill_buffer request when it's the end of a playlist
15:46:23pondlifeTrue, but also sounds like the queuing is going wrong
15:46:32*anrdewmel starts trying to unscramble Badger
15:46:46lowlightpondlife: line 1257...add a "&& !playlist_end"
15:47:21 Quit linuxstb (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
15:47:46lowlightpondlife: however...I wonder if that would mess up the case where the last track was only partially buffered. What do you think?
15:47:46pondlifelowlight: Looks safe. But I wonder if playlist_end will stay set
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15:48:36pondlifeplaylist_end is only set when we try to load the next track
15:48:42pondlifei.e. should be ok.
15:48:56shirourhi there. can anyone here direct me to what had already been made for the dm320 port ?
15:49:47pondlifelowlight: I suggest you test it for a while.
15:49:54pondlifeI'll mod my copy too
15:50:02pondlifeNot that I've seen the problem.
15:50:14pondlifeWhy isn't this being triggered every time?
15:50:25lowlightpondlife: so it's not set if the last track is partially buffered
15:50:38pondlifeNo. Doesn't look like it anyway.
15:50:51pondlifeOnly when attempting to open the following (non-existant) track.
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15:51:28pondlifeI would think this would be a problem each time - surely the pcmbuf gets low at the end of every playback if repeat is off?
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15:53:01lowlightpondlife: I'm not sure...my guess is that it depends on what tread is active at the time...
15:53:15pondlifeHmm, there should be plenty of oppurtunity for that to fire.
15:53:24lowlightthose fill buffer requests don't actually do anything
15:53:43lowlightso they can be processed fast if the audio thread is active
15:53:57shirouranyone: any ideas where i can find the things that have been done for the gmini port?
15:54:08lowlightbut if the codec thread has priority, then they get queued until it's the audio threads turn
15:54:26pondlifeMaybe that's why the problem got worse when the scheduler arrived...
15:54:28lowlightmy guess anyway
15:54:32pondlifeSounds plausible
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15:55:55webguest00hello
15:56:34lowlightI've test a couple of times and no longer get the stopping bug
15:56:41webguest00hello?
15:56:48lowlightbut I'll try come up with a case where the last track is partially buffered to make sure there's no problems with that
15:57:28webguest00could someone help me with my rockbox? i seem to be a bit confused!
15:57:52tucozwhat do you need help with?
15:58:47webguest00well, i own an iriver h10 20 gb and recently installed rockbox, which by the way is great. the problem is that some features of the player are no longer applicable.
15:59:10linuxstb_webguest00: The port to the H10 is still in the early stages - so it isn't complete.
15:59:23pondlifelowlight: You may want to get PaulJam to try it too
15:59:33pondlifegtg
16:00
16:00:11webguest00so, what do i do? should I keep it? is there any chance that stuff be fixed in the future?
16:00:31linuxstb_Yes, it's still being actively worked on, so the missing features will be implemented as time goes on.
16:01:21 Nick linuxstb_ is now known as linuxstb (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
16:01:27webguest00also, when i play a file, during playback and while the lcd is still lighted up, the sound is really choppy. what could that be?
16:01:50amiconnoh
16:02:18amiconnPosting to a full queue will wrap and overwrite the first event(s)
16:02:28linuxstbOuch...
16:02:29amiconnThat's certainly not good...
16:02:49amiconnfirmware/kernel.c line 158ff
16:03:47*amiconn could imagine that this behaviour is the root cause for some freezes with the new scheduler
16:04:08linuxstbwebguest00: What kind of file is it? (mp3, ogg, etc) ? Also, are you still using the default while-playing-screen (WPS) - the one that shows the graphical peakmeters?
16:04:09amiconnThe thread priority stuff causes threads to be delayed for a longer time than before
16:04:41webguest00yes, i am using the default wps. I tried it with mp3 files.
16:05:34tucozwebguest00, use another wps. the icatcher one for instance
16:05:38amiconnI have 2 suggestions which should be tried. (1) Longer queues when thread priority support is compiled in. (2) Posting to a full queue should discard the event instead of overwriting old stuff
16:05:53linuxstbwebguest00: Try a different WPS - the peakmeters slow rockbox down, and with lots of audio formats that means the buffer underflows, causing pauses.
16:06:11linuxstbwebguest00: It's a well-known problem on the H10 and ipods.
16:06:19amiconnBut of course it would also be good to make the playback code not flood the queue in the first place
16:06:54tucozwe should have a #ifdef around the peakmeters in the default wps.
16:07:00webguest00thanks! it worked!
16:07:00amiconnlinuxstb: I have no problems with peakmeters on my mini G2...
16:07:29webguest00also, what happens with WMA support? Rockbox doesn't seem to support them..
16:07:38linuxstbamiconn: You have a tiny LCD... I also have no problems with peakmeters on my 5g and FLAC.
16:07:58linuxstbwebguest00: It's being worked on (very slowly), but isn't working yet.
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16:08:45webguest00moreover, i downloaded some patches, but they are in txt format and some of them are called 'tracker'. where do i palce these?
16:08:52linuxstbtucoz: Or just change the default to something nicer...
16:08:57tucozyes
16:10:05markunwebguest00: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/WorkingWithPatches
16:10:58lowlightamiconn: yes...seems like in queue_post there should be check a check for (q->write - q->read) <= QUEUE_LENGTH before adding to the queue
16:11:18lowlightand if its full give priority to that thread to empty a slot
16:11:34linuxstbwebguest00: patches aren't really designed for users to install (but they can). They are text files indicating changes to be made to the Rockbox source code. You need to run the "patch" program to apply those changes, and then compile Rockbox.
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16:13:14amiconnlowlight: The check has to look a bit different in order to work, but that's the idea
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16:13:54amiconnq->write and q->read are pointers to a circular buffer
16:13:56webguest00anyway, i can't understand any of this, sorry. thanks anyway
16:14:46webguest00what about the FM radio feature? does that work in some way?
16:14:53tucozwebguest00, not yet
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16:16:34lowlightamiconn: I was under the impression that they were unsigned int counters that are masked to a circular buffer index (0-15)
16:17:06webguest00thanks a lot!
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16:18:31amiconnHmm, indeed they are
16:18:48*amiconn wouldn't have expected it to be implemented this way
16:19:59preglowcan anyone _PLEASE_ tell me why the bloody backlight keeps getting stuck?
16:20:03preglowwhat could cause that?
16:20:16linuxstbWhich target(s)?
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16:22:30preglownano
16:22:38preglowbut it should be on h1x0 as well, i guess
16:22:46preglowi think i remember seein git
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16:25:02linuxstbHave you tried with and without fading?
16:25:09preglownopes
16:25:47preglowcan't reproduce it reliably either
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16:57:14daurnuh
16:57:32daurnwhats the parameter for audio streams that is usually 16?
16:57:53markunbit?
16:58:09daurnyes!
16:58:14preglowthere's no part of that sentence i did understand
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16:58:30markunbtw daurn, shirour is busy again with his m:robe port
16:58:38daurngooood
16:59:14markunhe told me he had written all the drivers as seperate test apps and was now trying to figure out rockbox
16:59:50markunpreglow: took me a while as well :)
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17:00
17:00:24aliaskmarkun: Congrats on getting the logo - looks like it's coming along very nicely now. I'm considering ditching my H300 for a gigabeat if things keep going this way :D
17:01:05markunaliask: I hope we'll get to the file browser at least today
17:01:12preglowhow's the intterupts work coming?
17:01:44markunpreglow: didn't work on that yet. But that's the next thing after we get to the file browser
17:02:11aliaskWhat's the difference between the F and X series?
17:02:22daurnX sucks
17:02:32daurn(i think)
17:02:35aliask...?
17:03:49markunaliask: X is smaller and has a larger screen.
17:04:05aliaskLarger with same resolution?
17:04:09markunThe only thing 'missing' is that it doesn't have button lights
17:04:24markunyes, 240x320, but 2.4" vs 2.2" of the F
17:04:51markundaurn: are you talking about the S maybe?
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17:05:25aliaskI guess I'll get an X if I have the option, smaller is always good, and button lights are hardly must have.
17:05:37markunexactly
17:05:56markunaliask: http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/docs/20050920/tos1_05.jpg
17:06:02markunX30 on the right
17:06:26aliaskIs the 60 physically larger?
17:06:53aliaskEh, never mind, I'll let you get back to more important things :)
17:07:20markun3 mm thicker
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17:12:11webguest70hi, i have an iriver with a tuner built in it. i installed rockbox and in the manual there is a screenshot that shows 'FM tuner' in the main menu. however i was unable to locate that option in the firmware.
17:12:33aliaskwebguest70: Which iriver?
17:12:41webguest70i have the h10
17:12:48aliaskH10 radio is not functioning yet.
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17:15:00webguest70oh pitty. also, I really don't know where to put my audiofiles. the player only recognizes the files I had loaded (when using the original firmware) when in tag cahe mode. also many of them don't show up. what's wrong?
17:15:33 Quit PaulJam (".")
17:15:52aliaskI guess they're hidden in some folder on the hard drive. You'll have to move them to a more accessible location to view them in the file browser mode
17:16:41webguest70oh, well i did that too. I made the folder from 'hidden' to 'archive' and the player couldn't play any of the files.
17:18:48aliaskDo you mean the original firmware or rockbox couldn't play the files?
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17:25:24William24I own an iRiver 795, the Ogg-Vorbis support sucks, but I don't think your firmware for it is complete....
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17:27:34William24Any stopgap measures?
17:27:49Genre9mp3I guess you mean that it sucks the way it is implemented?
17:28:10Genre9mp3ans yes... Rockbox for iFP is not yet complete
17:28:11William24It doesn't support any of my higher bitrates
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17:28:46William24and it's much lower in volume then my MP3s on it, so my MP3s are loud, my Oggs are soft, and it gets annoying
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17:44:03***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
17:47:22amiconnmarkun: Where is the ata port setup for pp handled now? I can't find it...
17:48:07markunamiconn: did I remove too much? Let me check
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17:49:00markunamiconn: are you talking about the defines?
17:50:09amiconnNo, I'm talking about the last block of removed stuff in ata.c
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17:51:55alenooshHow can I convert cda files to mp3 ( or ogg ) in sarge ?
17:54:14markunamiconn: one part is in ata-pp5020.c but I don't know where the ata_device_init of the PP5002 is..
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17:56:39alenooshmarkun: How can I convert cda files to mp3 ( or ogg ) in sarge ?
17:57:27markunalenoosh: no idea
17:58:04markunamiconn: The PP5002 targets must have been using the PP5020 ata_device_init code..
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18:00
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18:02:52Genre9mp3alenoosh: You don't convert cda files... you just rip the cd
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18:04:42linuxstbmarkun: Any idea if that has always been the case, or maybe it was after the ipods were moved to target-tree?
18:05:01markunlinuxstb: after the target tree move
18:07:37Acornhey.. is there any way to select and copy multiple things at the same time in rockbox?
18:08:22alenooshGenre9mp3 : but how is that ?
18:09:49 Quit rretzbach (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
18:10:07Acornand would there be any way to make it so you can plug one of these into your h300 for typing? http://linitx.com/product_info.php?products_id=779
18:10:08Blackfish`www.leekspin.com
18:10:15Genre9mp3alenoosh: cda files are actually files that are generated by Windows and they are just a shortcut to the actual CD tracks. To rip the trcks just use a CD rip program like EAC
18:10:47markunGenre9mp3: he's not using windows..
18:11:09Genre9mp3hm?
18:11:29markunsarge = debian, right?
18:11:45alenooshyes markun
18:12:22Acornis there any way to shift select in rockbox?
18:12:26alenooshI'm looking for a way to do that in sarge without having to download a new software ,
18:12:55alenooshI've heard that there is a simple method to do that
18:13:12alenooshdon't you know that ?
18:13:19tucozAcorn, no
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18:13:35tucozAcorn, file managment is not rockbox selling point
18:13:40alenooshGenre9mp3 : ?
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18:14:05Acorntucoz: ok.. it's great that you can do any file management at all..
18:14:11Learalenoosh: KDE or Gnome should allow conversion of a CD...
18:14:11Genre9mp3alenoosh: don't know about that, I use Windows, but still cda just contain indexing information of the CD tracks
18:14:33alenooshthanks anyway
18:14:43alenooshLear : Do you know how ?
18:14:54tucozAcorn, it would be cool with ctrl and shift selecting though
18:15:09alenooshLear : beacause I can't find it
18:15:24LearHaven't done it myself, but just selecting the CD tracks in respective file manager and right click, or something like that...
18:16:10Acornwow.. you can cut and paste things while they're being played? how does that work?
18:16:45markunGenre9mp3: CDA files can also be 16-bit 44100Hz little endian headerless files
18:16:59LearThen there's command line tools. Grip is one, I believe...
18:17:31 Quit William24 ("Chatzilla 0.9.75-2006090801 [Firefox 2.0/2006102417]")
18:18:15alenooshLear : Does sarge have the Grip ?
18:18:19Genre9mp3markun: Really? didn't know about that..
18:18:26linuxstbGrip is a GUI (Gnome) ripper - I've used it for ripping my CDs. Make sure you untick the "id3 tags" option though (unless you're ripping to MP3).
18:18:47linuxstbalenoosh: Yes - "apt-get install grip" should do it.
18:19:23markunGenre9mp3: maybe I'm confusing .cdr files..
18:20:53Genre9mp3markun: At least I never heard of such thing before... all cda files I know are 44 bytes
18:20:57 Quit Blackfish (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
18:22:53*linuxstb tries out the codec preglow called "special" and it is indeed very "special"...
18:24:19Genre9mp3the dot100?
18:24:32linuxstbYep.
18:24:43Genre9mp3in what way is it special?
18:24:54linuxstbUnless I misused the test program, the sound quality is very difficult to describe...
18:26:23linuxstbEven low bitrate (e.g. 32kbps) realaudio or wma is a class above it.
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18:27:02Blackfish`tucoz
18:27:02Genre9mp3oh.. that bad...
18:27:36linuxstbBut it's only about 32kbps itself...
18:27:39Blackfish`where can i get the boot loader for h10 5gb?
18:28:05Blackfish`6gb
18:28:21Genre9mp3linuxstb: The claims in the tracker are a bit weird
18:28:55linuxstbBlackfish`: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IriverH10Port
18:28:56Acorndoes rockbox have usbotg?
18:29:01linuxstbAcorn: No.
18:29:10ArathisBlackfish`: http://download.rockbox.org/bootloader/iriver/H10.mi4 (UMS) http://download.rockbox.org/bootloader/iriver/H10_5GB-MTP/H10.mi4 (MTP)
18:29:36Blackfish`is that for 6gb too?
18:30:39markunlinuxstb: now getting past init() on the gigabeat..
18:30:52Genre9mp3actually the claims in the sourceforge page are even more weird
18:31:34Genre9mp3way too optimistic
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18:33:23ArathisBlackfish`: as far as I know 5gb and 6gb are the same. just the drive is different in size. so: yes :)
18:33:34Blackfish`ok ty
18:33:41linuxstbmarkun: Looking good...
18:34:15markundon't know why browse_root() fails
18:34:32linuxstbGenre9mp3: He has a long way to go if my test track was anything to judge it by.
18:34:43linuxstbmarkun: Is that the first yield() ?
18:36:20markunThere might be a yield in there. Didn't check how far it gets
18:36:38markunI'm recharging the battery right now, will continue later
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18:50:22lowlightlinuxstb: fyi...I see where there was an alac update last month (http://craz.net/programs/itunes/alac.html)...don't know if it was anything important.
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18:51:11linuxstblowlight: Thanks, I didn't notice that...
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18:52:33LearThe demuxer updates didn't seem very important (for us at least).
18:54:58Blackfish`where can i download themes?
18:55:37tucozBlackfish`, http://www.rockbox-themes.org/
18:55:50Blackfish`thx :9
18:55:57linuxstbOK. Looking at the diffs, there doesn't seem to be any changes to the decoder itself, except for a small optimisation, which I think Rockbox already does.
18:55:58tucozand also here. http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/WpsGallery
18:56:28 Part solarflare ("Leaving")
18:57:12LearThen the biggest change would be support for moov after mdat, which we don't support anyway...
19:00
19:01:31Acornwould there be any way to have some kind of external imput going into your iriver so that you could type stuff into it?
19:03:02Acornand will usbotg ever be implemented?
19:03:38 Quit Ribs (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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19:22:09Acorn"<Acorn> would there be any way to have some kind of external imput going into your iriver so that you could type stuff into it?
19:22:09Acorn<Acorn> and will usbotg ever be implemented?
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19:24:53markunAcorn: why are you quoting yourself?
19:26:15lostlogicbecause for some reason, people think that repeating themselves is a good way to get a response. someone should probably fix that falacy.
19:28:55linuxstbBut yes, I would expect Rockbox to have usbotg at some point in the future.
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19:31:16Acornlostlogic: hmm.. well it worked didn't it :D
19:31:32markunStrange that no x5 user has yet reported improved runtime. When the h300's runtime got improved people doing tests the same day..
19:31:42Acornbut yeah.. just saw people joining and rejoining and thought I'd pose the question to them too..
19:34:51Acornsorry..
19:35:18tucozmarkun, yeah. i am really curious how that boost helped. it's not exactly a tiny improvement.
19:35:34lowlightAcorn: usbotg progress is reported here: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/UsbOnTheGoSupport
19:35:42Acornwow!!
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19:37:41Acornhmm.. from what it says it may be possible to get keyboards to work with the h300.. is that true?
19:38:11 Quit spiorf (Remote closed the connection)
19:38:19amiconnYes, if someone writes a HID class (or the less complex bootkeyboard class)
19:39:06Acornthat would be so good..
19:39:24tucoza trackball class, so that we could play marble madness in rockbox :)
19:39:30AcornI love the idea of being able to bust out a tiny thumb keyboard and type out a diary anywhere i want..
19:39:39amiconntucoz: That would also be HID
19:40:02tucozyes. but wouldn't you need a special driver for a trackball?
19:40:27amiconnNo.
19:40:44tucozaha.
19:40:46amiconnThat's what makes the HID class so complex - it supports all sorts of HID
19:40:47*tucoz found http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_human_interface_device_class
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19:41:03tucozinteresting
19:41:10amiconnKeyboards, mice, trackballs, joysticks...
19:41:59Acornnobody is feeling particularly restless are they? up for the challege? :D
19:42:02tucozbut are you forced to implement all parts of that class?
19:42:26amiconnYes, otherwise it wouldn't be a HID class
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19:42:54amiconnBut most keyboards also support the bootkeyboard protocol, and most mice support the bootmouse protocol,
19:43:14amiconnso for basic keyboard & mouse support one doesn't need a full-blown hid clas
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19:43:18tucozaha. so it is the hardware that forces you to do that
19:43:35tucozthe usb-mouse and usb-keyboard that is
19:44:02tucozi never gave this much thought
19:44:07***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
19:44:19peturamiconn: the philips code I'm playing with has a hid class
19:44:42linuxstbHow big is it, in terms of lines of C?
19:45:04peturbut somehow I fear the work I'm doing won't be all that usefull, the usb stack is closely linked to the isp1362 - not generic :(
19:45:38amiconnhid is the most complex class by far
19:45:50peturmaybe it would be better to look at the linux usb stack, it includes also an isp1362 driver but it's of course much bigger
19:46:07amiconnSome binary sizes for the "Poseidon" USB stack for Amiga:
19:46:18amiconn(m68k, so comparable to coldfire)
19:46:46peturthe philips hid class driver is 700 lines
19:46:56tucozthat is not that bad, is it?
19:47:08amiconnmasstorage.class: 47KB, bootkeyboard.class: 8.6KB, bootmouse.class: 7.5KB, hid.class: 125KB
19:47:40peturthe philips code is _very_ basic, not a real usb stack
19:47:56amiconnWe'll also need the hub class
19:48:11peturbut I see keyboard and mouse calls in the hid file :)
19:49:01tucozdo you think we should continue to ship the iriverify plugin?
19:49:01peturI hope to get the code compiled into rb next week and do some first tests...
19:49:11 Quit scorche` (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
19:49:24amiconntucoz: Imho we should as long as we don't support wma
19:49:43tucozhmm. that is fair i suppose
19:51:08tucozwhat about databox? I think we should at least stop shipping it, but keep the sources in cvs.
19:51:38amiconnI don't know whether databox and searchengine are doing anything useful
19:51:57amiconnGuess they don't. They were linked to the old tag database.
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19:52:48amiconnHCl wanted to adapt them to tagcache, but it looks like all the search functionality is now already built into tagcache
19:52:52HClwho what where
19:52:56tucozhehe
19:53:02tucozspeak of the devil
19:53:08HClhighlights ;p
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19:53:27tucozdo you have any plans with databox and searchengine?
19:53:29amiconnWhat might be useful would be an editor for tagnavi.config
19:53:30HClYeah, I talked with Slasheri about that, and from what he said I figured it wasn't needed to adapt it.
19:53:40HClI dunno, I haven't worked with the tagcache yet
19:53:57HClI wonder whether tagcache can really do everything databox/searchengine can
19:54:02tucozbut databox is used to create queries, or am i wrong?
19:54:06HClno, that's correct
19:54:14HCldatabox is a query editor
19:54:19HCland searchengine executes it
19:54:31tucozok. but maybe that could be used to do create queries for tag cache
19:56:20tucozHCl, so you think we should keep shipping databox/searchengine and wait for someone to adapt them to tagcache?
19:56:47tucozor stop shipping them, but keep the sources in cvs?
20:00
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20:08:55HClI'd say the last one.
20:09:01linuxstbtucoz: Everything is in cvs forever, so if we stop building and shipping them, we could "cvs remove" them.
20:13:19lowlightPaulJam: can you test a cvs build? I hope I fixed the stopping bug that occurs after the first track of the second dir.
20:14:15tucozlinuxstb, yes i know. but then if we cvs remove them, new developers would not know that easily that they were ever there. and the possibility that they get adopted to tag cache is lowered.
20:15:16PaulJami tested it once with the changes in the sim and had no stopping (and no whitenoise. but i can do a test on the target.
20:15:19linuxstbMaybe, but I'm not sure if someone writing a tagcache query editor would think to look in a file called databox.c
20:15:24tucozhehe
20:16:44tucozWe can wait with the removal. It is just that i do think we should ship useless/broken/replaced plugins.
20:17:21tucozbbl
20:17:59lowlightPaulJam: great. thanks
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20:39:39niskelI have a problem, my iPod wont turn on at all D:
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20:45:13lowlightniskel: charge it :)
20:45:28SXIIIhi all
20:45:30SXIII!!
20:51:39SXIIIcan someone help me
20:51:42SXIII...?
20:53:06blue_lizardwhy don't you ask
20:53:13blue_lizardmaybe somebody can help
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20:55:55SXIIIhmmm
20:56:01SXIIIdid someone installed
20:56:09SXIIIRockCalendar plugin?
20:56:37SXIIIi can't compile it 'cose I'm under windows but visual studio won't do anything (maybe I do smth wrong?..)
20:56:42 Quit spiorf (Remote closed the connection)
20:57:34preglowgotta use gcc for rockbox
20:57:35SlasheriSXIII: you can't use any windows compilers to compile rockbox
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20:57:57preglowyou can use cygwin, but not anything not gcc
20:57:58Slasherii would recommed getting linux or using the vmware image
20:58:10SXIIII have linux
20:58:15SXIIIFedora Core...
20:58:18SXIIIbut...
20:58:19Slasherithen you have no problems
20:58:36Slasherieven compilers can be automatically installed
20:58:46SXIIII have to recompile whole rockbox 2 install only one plugin?
20:58:50Slasherijust run tools/rockboxdev.sh from the rockbox cvs
20:58:57Slasheriyes
20:59:06preglownot really, no, but thats the easiest
20:59:10SXIIIoh my god....%)
20:59:12preglowyou need the complete devkit anyway
20:59:30preglowwhat did you expect?
20:59:41SXIIIi expect hmm
20:59:54preglowthat fact that you need tools should not surprise you
21:00
21:00:02preglownor should the fact that you need the rockbox source
21:00:03SXIIIplugin like put in directory'n'work... like WPS work...
21:00:14preglowit does, but you need to compile it first
21:00:34SXIIIdid someone compiled rockcalendar? %)
21:01:01SXIIIi gonna install new Fedora 6 in nearest future...
21:02:18 Join Ribs2 [0] (n=freenode@91.84.8.218)
21:02:19SXIII138 person on channel and noone compiled RockCalendar? %)
21:02:45preglowits friday night, usually slow this time
21:02:58preglowrockcalendar, is that one of those eli sherer plugins?
21:03:05 Quit spiorf (Remote closed the connection)
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21:03:40SXIIIehhmmm moment
21:04:40linuxstbpreglow: Yes, I think so. I think Ben/Paprica did some further work on it, but it never made it to CVS.
21:04:57SXIIIOpened by Ben Basha (paprica)
21:05:12linuxstbLike the other plugbox plugins, it is too "un-rockbox" IMO. (custom menus etc).
21:05:17preglowright
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21:05:46preglowSXIII: just go ahead and get your own devkit. all you need to do is boot linux, grab rockbox from cvs, then run a script and you're ready to go
21:06:02SXIIIyep...
21:06:37preglowrockboxdev.sh, i think it's called
21:06:44preglowthat'll build the compilers you need for you
21:06:57SXIIIthe problem is booting linux 'cose I installed it on last HDD and it won't boot from it donno why... I'll wait Fedora 6 and then make my own devkit maybe...
21:07:03linuxstbSXIII: Your other option is to use one of the unofficial Rockbox builds that include rockcalendar. But as preglow said, you basically just need to run a script and wait for it to finish.
21:07:30linuxstbWhich player are you running Rockbox on?
21:07:35SXIIIH320
21:08:13linuxstbThen there are probably a few unofficial builds you could use if you wanted to. Check the forums at misticriver.net.
21:08:29SXIIIoh I know this place.. THX...
21:08:50 Quit bawb2 (Remote closed the connection)
21:08:55SXIIIi have another question...
21:09:47SXIIII could translate rockbox manual onto my native language... Is that needed? Will someone put the translation on site or it will be only for me & my friends maybe?
21:10:21preglowit'll be a pretty huge job
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21:10:30SXIIIyep
21:10:35linuxstbI'm sure translations would be welcome though.
21:10:40preglowcan't imagine why not
21:11:11SXIIIbut it isn't problem for me 'cose I have time and I know english...technical maybe...so i can understand 99.9% from the manual i think.. %)
21:11:43Genre9mp3The tricky part is to deal with the manual updates
21:11:49linuxstbWe would need to work out a way to incorporate translated versions into CVS - hopefully there are LaTeX tools to help with that.
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21:12:14SXIIIsorry?
21:12:27SXIIIincorporate translated version?
21:12:55Genre9mp3Whenever there is a manual update, the translated manual will need to be updated, too
21:13:19cowonx5anyone know how to fix a broken lcd...broken as in the screen does not light up at all (even though the unit is on)?
21:13:19linuxstbThe Rockbox manual is held in the Rockbox CVS repository as LaTeX source files. If you went to the effort of translating it, we would want to add your work into CVS, and track differences with the master, English version.
21:13:23SXIIII think the main parts will not change, and other parts... On my way to end of translation I can catch new manual and add new features to translations...
21:13:57SXIIIwahha
21:14:09SXIIIlinuxstb: it would be great I think.
21:14:20 Quit TeaSea (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:14:34SXIIIso anyone here speaks Russian except me? =)
21:14:37linuxstbSXIII: But we (meaning the manual authors) would hopefully help you with the technicalities. It just needs some thought before you start.
21:16:12SXIIII like this project a lot... I think translation will help 90% of Russians use RockBox in their players...
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21:17:18cowonx5http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/5208/10270614151er3.jpg
21:17:46SXIIIyou write this manual in OpenOffice or other program? I'm thinking of where to start...
21:17:55linuxstbSXIII: It's written in LaTeX.
21:18:33SXIIIOh that's text publishing system?
21:18:35linuxstbIt's a typesetting markup language - so you write the text in a text editor, and add markup for the structure.
21:18:48linuxstbSimilar to HTML in a way.
21:19:23linuxstbYou can browse the manual "source" here: http://www.rockbox.org/viewcvs.cgi/manual/
21:19:25 Quit RogerBacon (Remote closed the connection)
21:19:39SXIIIOK, understood... I need use this program so you could track changes or I can use something that can export file into PDF?
21:19:56 Join pagefault [0] (i=pagefaul@pdpc/supporter/active/pagefault)
21:20:15SXIIIHUGE!
21:20:50linuxstbYou build the PDF in a similar way to compiling Rockbox. But instead of gcc, it uses "pdflatex".
21:20:54cowonx5you can see it's connected: http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/2797/10270614181ch6.jpg
21:21:13 Quit Rondom ("Ex-Chat")
21:21:40linuxstbWe do it that way because it allows us to build different manuals for all the different players Rockbox runs on, but from a single set of source files.
21:21:42SXIIIOMG... there is an archive of manual source? =)
21:21:58SXIIIyep I understand
21:22:16SXIIIand it's easy to add some new info there yep?
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21:25:01peturcowonx5: doesn't light up... but can you see anything on the LCD if you hold it in the light?
21:25:24 Quit Ribs2 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:25:50peturcowonx5: btw, lookup macro settings in the manual of your camera, those are pretty out of focus shots ;)
21:27:02SXIIIcowonx5: or you could just hang the camera on larger distance from player %)
21:27:39cowonx5yeah the razr is horrible...believe me I've tried various distances
21:28:24SXIIIyou make photos on your phone? %)
21:28:30cowonx5lcd doesn't come on at all...I brought this up last night & jhMikeS was helping me out (http://www.rockbox.org/irc/current.txt 04.43.21)
21:28:39cowonx5yea no digi-cam
21:28:53SXIII2bad%)
21:29:31cowonx5wmy main aim is to see if I could fin dout what each pin on the lcd ribbon meant
21:29:48cowonx5sorry, my main aim is to see if I could find out what each pin on the lcd ribbon means
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21:30:31cowonx5it started out like this: http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/4240/x5sctz4.jpg
21:30:32 Quit Rob2222 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:30:48cowonx5then this: http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/5175/10260622411in7.jpg
21:30:51cowonx5now nothing :(
21:31:00peturcowonx5: find some electronics guy near you and let him have a look at it, that would be the quickest way. It's impossible to do something like this remote...
21:31:34cowonx5I understand that; that's why right now I'm just looking for information
21:31:56peturall we know is in the wiki -> iaudioport
21:32:25petur__maybe__ LinusN can help you more but I'm not sure at all
21:32:59cowonx5I've looked at the docs in http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IaudioX5HardwareComponents#LCD_Varitronix_COG_T180MLH but don't see any ribbon cable assignments
21:33:41peturgoogle is your friend... if he doesn't know and we don't, there's not much you can do
21:34:24*petur wonders why gcc needs a bloody newline at the end of a file
21:36:01cowonx5google is a bad friend :(
21:37:32lowlightSXIII: have you tried using http://world.altavista.com/ to translate the online manual to Russian?
21:39:16 Join tucoz__ [0] (i=528676e7@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/session)
21:39:28tucoz__is rockbox itself translated to russian?
21:39:50linuxstbtucoz__: Any ideas about how to manage translations of the manual?
21:39:57 Quit spiorf (Remote closed the connection)
21:40:41tucoz__linuxstb: my first thought is that that would be a paralell effort. I have no idea how to handle a ´natural´language automatically
21:41:29peturtucoz: there's a russian.lang
21:41:32tucoz__even the screenshots would have to be taken in another language
21:41:36tucoz__petur. ok
21:41:55SXIIItucoz__: yes
21:42:18tucoz__SXIII. ok. I am one of the guys working on the manual.
21:42:27SXIII<lowlight>: I have some translation progs BUT they will never translate the manual like people do!!!
21:42:56SXIIInot whole rockbox but maybe 40-50%...
21:43:03 Join spiorf [0] (n=spiorf@host123-142.pool8250.interbusiness.it)
21:43:19tucoz__SXIII. maybe you could start with translating the rest of rockbox?
21:43:34SXIIIhm =)
21:43:37tucoz__that would probably help more people, than translating the entire manual
21:43:37SXIIIgood question.
21:43:54SXIIIyou're right...
21:44:11***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21:44:14SXIIII'll have a look at translated version...
21:44:49tucoz__there are tools available to help you with translating rockbox
21:45:01 Part Ainulindale
21:45:29SXIIIhm
21:45:37SXIIIrussian.lng is unreadable
21:45:40tucoz__hehe
21:45:44SXIIIwhat tools?
21:45:49SXIIIlink please =))
21:46:08tucoz__the tools are available in the cvs
21:46:53lowlightmaybe you could use the altavista translation to see where the English version could be written better to give a more accurate translation
21:47:12tucoz__the tools will look at the english language file, and compare that to the russian (for instance) and see what strings are not translated
21:47:12*petur wonders if http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/LangFiles has been adapted to langv2
21:47:32Bagderpetur: it has
21:47:43peturI just noticed ;)
21:48:20SXIIIoh I'll have a look
21:48:25PaulJamlowlight, pondlife: looks good, tested twice on target and once on the sim and haven't got the stopping or witenoise.
21:48:50tucoz__SXIII. look at the link petur pasted
21:49:02SXIIIyes I'm opening it now =)
21:49:50SXIIIare the plugins (integrated) translatable ?
21:50:26tucoz__Not yet
21:50:49lowlightPaulJam: good news! I wasn't sure if it would cure the whitenoise, but I had high hopes :)
21:52:04tucoz__SXIII. I would assume that the russian language file needs an editor capable of utf8
21:52:20 Quit Ribs ("eh eh ehhhh!")
21:52:44*petur is listening to live recordings from 'The Mudd Club' in Sweden (performance of a Belgian band in 1983)
21:52:47SXIIIor windows1251 =)
21:53:01tucoz__ok
21:53:15tucoz__dont know what it is, but if it works... :)
21:53:47SXIIIencoding (Cyrillic)
21:54:00SXIIIanother name i think is cp1251.
21:54:00 Join midgey34 [0] (n=tjross@markely-164-75.reshall.umich.edu)
21:54:06tucoz__aha
21:56:33cowonx5anyone know how to test lcds?
21:56:38 Quit lowlight ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
21:56:39*petur swears at mallocs in philips isp1362 code
21:57:26peturdo we have a memcpy function in rockbox?
21:57:34linuxstbSure.
21:57:37 Join lowlight [0] (i=c730190b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/session)
21:58:06 Quit MarcoPolo (Remote closed the connection)
21:58:30 Join superiPodbox [0] (i=c9a0325c@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-e67ce7a2bc65a0c0)
21:58:36peturlinuxstb: which include is it hidden in?
21:58:39*lowlight honors Sweden with a recording of Pearl Jam at Monderna Museet, Skeppsholmen, Stockholm, Sweden on 1992-06-25
21:58:54linuxstbProbably string.h
21:59:00SXIIII can't find the tracker of language changes... that is - http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/viewfile/Main/LangFiles?rev=1;filename=langstatus ??
21:59:12peturlinuxstb: bingo. thnx
21:59:12 Quit superiPodbox (Client Quit)
21:59:44linuxstbpetur: "man memcpy" would have told you that as well - it's all POSIX...
22:00
22:00:07tucoz__SXIII. this is the russian file. http://www.rockbox.org/viewcvs.cgi/apps/lang/russian.lang
22:00:07*petur doesn't know posix... windows fanboy, remember ;)
22:00:44psiborgi guess the world could use some of those too..
22:01:04amiconnX5 not boosting at all with lame −−preset standard mp3s is nice :)
22:01:11 Quit qailer ("Leaving")
22:01:53tucoz__amiconn. running a benchmark?
22:02:14amiconnNope, was just a quick test...
22:02:53tucoz__ok. would be interesting to see _how_ much that change made to battery life
22:03:16*amiconn didn't run any battery benchmark on X5 so far
22:03:23amiconnSo there is no reference value...
22:03:29tucoz__some others might
22:04:18*amiconn should try a quick port of the pcf adc optimisation to H300
22:05:50preglowamiconn: it shouldn't boost, i tested yesterday, and 320 kbps mp3 doesn't boost even with full dithering
22:05:56preglowon h120, that is
22:06:25amiconnpreglow: X5 boosted quite a bit with lame −−preset standard mp3s, with the old pcf driver
22:06:42amiconnThat was without crossfeed and eq
22:08:12preglowwith dithering AND crossfeed it just _barely_ has to boost
22:08:16preglowdamn, you've gotta love h1x0
22:09:06amiconnThe H1x0 could also benefit a bit from optimising the adc driver
22:09:14preglowmaybe
22:09:19preglowin what way?
22:09:28amiconnWay less than the pcf i2c optimisations give on h300 and x5, but still...
22:09:55bluebrotherSXIII, the language files are utf8 so you definitely need to write them in utf8. cp1251 will not work
22:10:06bluebrotherunless you convert them ;-)
22:10:13amiconnWell, the button adc channel is read every tick, unless hold is on
22:10:40cowonx5what's the biggest-capacity device that rockbox supports that isn't swcodec?
22:10:41amiconnIt's a simple serial protocol, but we have to bit-bang
22:10:54preglowamiconn: can we receive interrupts on the button adc port?
22:10:59amiconnnope
22:11:08cowonx5I mean that supports swcodec
22:11:10pregloweh, that wouldn't help anyway
22:11:14tucoz__bluebrother, are you sure (can not check)? revision 1.12 says CP1251 is cyrillic, and not only russian codepage
22:11:19*bluebrother notices the favorites plugin finally got removed. Nice.
22:11:25preglowamiconn: so exactly how would you optimise it?
22:11:57Genre9mp3cowonx5: your nick answers your question
22:12:07amiconnAsm optimised transfer routines as for the i2c, and adjusting the delay instead of always using the maximum delay to stay within specs at 124MHz
22:12:35 Quit Acorn ()
22:12:45bluebrothertucoz, pretty sure:
22:12:48bluebrother$ file apps/lang/russian.lang
22:12:48bluebrotherapps/lang/russian.lang: UTF-8 Unicode English text
22:12:48tucoz__ok
22:13:29bluebrotherwhen switching to cp1251 in gvim the cyrillic symbols get garbled.
22:13:47tucoz__i see
22:14:21bluebrotherI can't read cyrillic glyphs but at least I can recognize them as cyrillic symbols ;-)
22:14:25amiconnall .lang files are utf-8
22:14:45SXIIIhmmm
22:15:14 Quit tucoz__ ("CGI:IRC")
22:15:31SXIIInote that we hasn't any underletter signs except 2 letters. If you see same letters with symbols near - it is in incorrect encoding..
22:16:04SXIIIyep russian.lang on the site is in UTF-8... IT is the russian letters.. %)
22:17:34cowonx5genre9mp3, lol...guess you didn't see the parts where my lcd is foobared
22:19:22 Quit EspeonEefi ("Leaving")
22:20:25cowonx5guess I'm back to the rio karma
22:20:48SXIIIrussian is easier than for example Japanese or Chinese... It has many analogical words with english, italian, french...
22:21:16Genre9mp3cowonx5: Still, the X5 is the biggest capacity player that rockbox supports
22:21:49Genre9mp3cowonx5: Sorry about the LCD, can you send your player for a repair?
22:22:57Bagderbiggest capacity swcodec player together with ipod video
22:23:35Genre9mp3heh... I always tend to forget this... how you called it? :)
22:24:01SXIIIthe biggest capacity player is CUSTOM player..... %)
22:24:22SXIIIbased on the 750-gb seagate HDD or smth like that %)))
22:24:41Bagderno
22:25:03Bagderin that case you can just as well count the sim on your computer
22:25:22 Quit excitatory (SendQ exceeded)
22:25:22SXIIIwhat's the sim?
22:25:38Bagdersimulator, run the Rockbox ui on your OS
22:25:49SXIIImuahaha
22:25:51SXIII%)))
22:26:09amiconnHrmph, Makefiles certainly aren't intuitive :(
22:26:15PaulJamit is the best mediaplayer i have seen so far on linux
22:26:30SXIIII'll run linux on vmware and there i'll run rockbox and there i'll run gameboy emu...
22:26:45bluebrotherI like amarok pretty much
22:27:44tucozamarok is very good
22:27:58BagderI'm not very picky, I use whatever
22:28:23*amiconn will probably run a battery benchmark on X5 tomorrow
22:29:19cowonx5genre9mp3, yeah I can but someone said it's gonna be around $75
22:30:44z0deamiconn how do you do that?
22:30:45cowonx5I'm waiting for the 'Vibez' to go up in capacity (it's like the reincarnation of the rio karma) http://www.trekstor.de/en/products/detail_mp3.php?pid=66&page=3
22:30:56cowonx5flac/ogg support
22:31:05Bagdernothing beats Rockbox anyway
22:31:33z0dehow would you say rockbox compairs to foobar?
22:31:36Bagderunless you really need DRM or WMA ;-)
22:31:44cowonx5lol, no-one needs that
22:32:00*Bagder never even saw foobar
22:32:18*ender` uses foobar and rockbox :)
22:32:34Genre9mp3me too! :)
22:32:57z0deBagder: really?
22:33:09Bagderthere's no foobar on linux
22:33:38z0deoh yea, i havn't made that jump yet
22:33:42preglowargh, one of the two windows programs i find myself missing all the time
22:33:51Genre9mp3heh... someone should add to the Key Features of Rockbox: "No DRM support" ... IMO this is feature!
22:34:06z0dewhat about that player that starts with a k
22:34:20Genre9mp3preglow: Which one is the other one?
22:34:47amiconnpreglow: Can't you run it in wine?
22:34:54preglowGenre9mp3: cooledit
22:34:56preglowamiconn: amd64
22:35:04SXIIIanother question... what data I can edit of this... <phrase> id: LANG_SET_BOOL_YES desc: bool true representation user: <source> *: "Yes" </source> <dest> *: "" </dest> <voice> *: "Yes" </voice></phrase> (what to write in user - translated version of descriprion?)
22:35:10preglowamiconn: also, last time i tested it, it didn't work flawlessly
22:35:22*amiconn wonders whether wine will support win64 some day
22:35:43BagderSXIII: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/LangFiles
22:36:50SXIIIOh yes it was there sorry i missed it =)
22:37:12tucozdid you run genlang to get all the untranslated entries?
22:37:45SXIIInope..
22:37:50SXIIIhow to?
22:37:58tucozI can prepare one for you, if you want
22:38:14tucozso that you do not have to install a development environment
22:38:30 Join scorche [0] (i=ScorchE@cpe-76-171-123-86.socal.res.rr.com)
22:38:42SXIIIit will run on winxp x64? =))
22:39:24tucozyou need active perl, cygwin, or linux
22:39:40SXIIIit's trouble...
22:40:07SXIIIbut anyway plz do it...
22:40:19*ender` has development environment set up in Services for Unix Applications on Windows :)
22:41:16*bluebrother looks for a simple solution to replaygain mp3 files from linux
22:41:51 Join matsl [0] (n=matsl@1-1-4-2a.mal.sth.bostream.se)
22:42:48tucozBagder, i ran genlang -u -e=english.lang russian.lang > russian_new.lang, but a bunch of warnings were sent to stderr
22:43:06tucozWarning: source before line 8585 lacks quotes!
22:43:11tucozlike that ^^
22:44:09Bagderyes
22:44:15tucozis that ok?
22:44:21tucozor is something broken
22:44:22Bagderit is considered a mild syntactical error
22:44:25tucozaha
22:44:26tucozok
22:44:29Bagderthe script can work around it
22:45:41SXIIImaybe you should put additional quotes on line 8585 ib russian.lang (dest) ?
22:45:45peturender`: does that work ok (and faster than cygwin)? 217MB download....
22:46:02tucozSXIII, there were several hundred of warnings like that
22:46:04cowonx5can anyone explain why swcodecs don't work on the archos?
22:46:05ender`it's a bit faster, but if you really want speed, i suggest coLinux
22:46:22cowonx5it's software, so, what's the limitation?
22:46:32Bagdercowonx5: archos is now swcodec
22:46:34Bagdernot
22:46:44tucozSXIII, http://www.ii.uib.no/~martina/russian_new.lang
22:46:45 Quit lightyear (Remote closed the connection)
22:46:51scorchecowonx5: i did that last night...it decodes on a chip instead of having a stong enough processor to be able to decode there
22:46:54peturender`: I tried colinux but couldn't get it DNS working
22:47:02bluebrothercowonx5, the processor is too slow
22:47:20scorchecowonx5: the archos units have a processor that has 12 Mhz
22:47:23ender`really? i just echoed my DNS servers to /etc/resolv.conf (and did a fresh install of Gentoo in it)
22:47:32scorcheecho echo echo
22:47:50*petur wonders if he should try again
22:47:53cowonx5so the processor is the limitation? I was just under the impression that if it's swcodec, hardware wouldn't matter
22:47:56SXIIIi think it's same or near-same like i just downloaded from RockBox language CVS....
22:48:09SXIIIi'll save your version and will translate it...
22:48:10Bagdercowonx5: IT IS NOT SWCODEC
22:48:25Bagderthere
22:48:28Bagderdid you read it now?
22:48:47tucozSXIII, you will notice that there are some ### in the version i gave you
22:48:47SXIIIi can't change the desc field and user?
22:48:50cowonx5...isn't that what I asked though?
22:48:52*petur looks at Bagder and points at his watch
22:49:08Bagdercowonx5: yes, and I told you before that Archos is hwcodec
22:49:30cowonx5ok...
22:49:39Bagderso it uses hw to decode
22:50:03cowonx5right I understand that, but I thought the swcodec stuff would still work
22:50:10cowonx5guess not
22:50:12tucozSXIII, those are untranslated strings
22:50:17Bagdereh, then it would be swcodec
22:50:18ender`cowonx5: it could work. but not in realtime
22:50:19scorchenot on 12 Mhz
22:50:40cowonx5how fast are the cpu's that do support swcodec generally (or at minimum?)
22:50:45scorchethe ipods have trouble still with some codes and they are running at 75Mhz
22:50:55SXIIIyou know, the word "Vkl" means "." but isn't translated - donno why... =) i will translate it.
22:50:56scorches/codes/codecs
22:51:23tucozSXIII, when you are done, please upload your work to the tracker
22:51:24petuririver h1x0/h3x0 run up to 124MHz (iirc)
22:51:36peturso 10 times the speed :)
22:51:50ender`doesn't coldfire go up to 140MHz (but runs too hot at that speed?)
22:51:54SXIIII'll write you when I'll finish!
22:52:07 Quit NickDe ("Leaving")
22:52:17peturbut my h3x0 does mp3 decoding at 45MHz
22:52:33cowonx5that sucks...but I guess that's life
22:52:43tucozSXIII, but i would advice you to install a development environment to be able to play around, create patches, compile your own rockbox, try the sims etc
22:53:24tucozSXIII, it is better if you upload the lang file here. http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/index.php?type=4
22:53:25SXIIII'll do it after installing new Fedora Core 6 x64!
22:53:28tucoz:)
22:53:39SXIIIsaved your link, THX.
22:53:45tucozthen it will not be forgotten
22:53:47cowonx5out of rockbox's list of supported daps, which is cheapest...I guess I have to deal with low capacity
22:53:55scorcheender`: yes...and the ipods (except for 3g and mini 2g) can go up to 80
22:54:07tucozgot to go. see you
22:54:10scorchecowonx5: archos units are the only currently supported DAPs
22:54:21 Part tucoz ("Leaving")
22:55:09cowonx5but they're hwcodec....meaning no flac or vorbis
22:55:39scorche...that is what we have been telling you
22:55:39peturcowonx5: try to get a h1x0 or h3x0 somewhere (ebay,...)
22:55:46BagderI figure the cheapest is the smaller h10 or a 1gb 1gen nano
22:55:48 Quit midgey34 ()
22:56:10*scorche frowns
22:56:16scorchebut he asked for supported! =P
22:56:31cowonx5scorche, you're confusing
22:56:39BagderI think he meant devices rockbox runs on
22:56:43cowonx5^ yes
22:56:51scorcheyes, but he didnt ask for that
22:56:53amiconnThe cheapest is probably the Ondio now, on ebay
22:56:54*scorche whistles
22:57:20Bagdersomeone should set up a filter for ebay search for all supported players ;-)
22:57:36*scorche sees that his antics are not currently working and resumes the waking up process
22:57:40*amiconn had a filter for archoses and irivers some time ago
22:57:42Bagderand not "supported" in scorche's sense
22:58:05cowonx5http://electronics.search-desc.ebay.com/rockbox_MP3-Players-Accessories_W0QQcatrefZC12QQfromZR10QQfsooZ1QQfsopZ1QQftrtZ1QQftrvZ1QQftsZ2QQsacatZ97927
22:58:07scorchei wasnt the one that came up with that definition...
22:58:16Bagderhehe
22:58:57*amiconn probably found a decentsolution for the bitmap building, not requiring the extra Makefile in bitmaps/ and still always trying to rebuild the bitmap libs
22:59:04amiconnUsing a static pattern rule...
23:00
23:01:12 Quit spiorf (Remote closed the connection)
23:01:33peturcowonx5: well, there's a rockboxed iriver h340 in that list. 117 dollars.... start bidding :)
23:02:02 Join S0ap [0] (n=Soap@unaffiliated/s0ap)
23:02:37 Join linuxstb_ [0] (i=5343d4aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/session)
23:03:14cowonx5along with the 23 other people...lol, I'd never win that
23:03:22markungoffa bought a Gigabeat F40 for $90, but rockbox doesn't run on it yet
23:04:02cowonx5good thing is the seller's in chicago & so am I...could probably save some shipping
23:04:40*ender` has a nice 2,5 years old H120 :)
23:05:09S0apIs there a developer who wants a 2nd gen Ipod and has the desire to port it, or should I sell it?
23:05:23*preglow has no desire to open that can of worms
23:05:34*linuxstb_ finds an Elio on ebay quite cheaply... http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Stylish-Black-Tatung-Elio-20Gb-Photo-Jukebox_W0QQitemZ170040896372QQihZ007QQcategoryZ73839QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
23:05:43cowonx5I'm just gonna go with some cheap refurbished karma if I don't find some _temporary_ unit with rockbox 'support'
23:05:48preglowwhat is this elio stuff anyway? didn't i see a rockbox port for that?
23:05:54 Nick S0ap is now known as Soap (n=Soap@unaffiliated/s0ap)
23:06:06ender`petur: if you decide to try SFU/SUA, there's a precompiled m68k-gcc at http://deeperthought.ena.si/interix/
23:06:27linuxstb_preglow: Yes, I bought one, and made a small start on the port. I need to reverse-engineer an LCD driver...
23:06:43linuxstb_It's yet another PP device.
23:07:20*linuxstb_ wonders if the Sansa SD card code would work on the Elio
23:07:40linuxstb_Assuming there is Sansa SD code?
23:07:52Bagderlinuxstb: not yet, only that document describing it
23:08:03dan_alinuxstb: Not yet, but there might be some in a few hours
23:08:07cowonx5what is a(n) £? trying to do a conversion but don't know what it's called
23:08:35 Quit lee-qid ("Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com")
23:08:36dan_acowonx5: British pound (GBP)
23:08:38linuxstb_GBP
23:08:47cowonx5ok, thanks
23:09:05linuxstb_But don't look at that Elio, Rockbox doesn't work on it either...
23:09:28cowonx5alright :)
23:09:55cowonx5I had the x5 when it was a 'new' port and then I remember the 'we got sound' and I installed rb soon after
23:10:17 Part lowlight
23:13:58cowonx5lol, 2 bids were just placed on that iriver petur mentioned not long ago
23:14:11cowonx5who's trying to steal it from me
23:15:10cowonx5alright, start work @ 4:30(-6,cdt), so I'm out
23:15:58 Quit cowonx5 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
23:21:58psiborgwhere is the last fm log and how do i use it?
23:22:29bluebrotherpsiborg, there is a wiki page about it.
23:22:47bluebrotherhttp://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/LastFMLog
23:23:13psiborgthank you
23:24:50LearBagder: regarding all those genlang warnings, they come even if the file is perfectly fine. Happens if you run it without a -t argument.
23:25:03Bagderoh
23:25:14peturpsiborg: if you're on windows, check out this: http://www.misticriver.net/showthread.php?t=47554
23:25:26BagderLear: thanks, I'll try to have a look at it soonish
23:27:13 Part holst
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23:28:37PaulJamBagder: if you look at the genlang script, could you look if it would be possible to also mark lines where in the english.lang there are separate strings for different targets, but they are missing in the .lang file you want to sync?
23:29:32BagderI'm writing it down and will have a stab at it
23:32:53amiconnpreglow: Your commit msg is a bit odd imho...
23:33:06amiconnIt doesn't state that you made the code working again
23:33:26preglowwell, i'd hardly commit broken code knowing it was broken
23:33:43amiconn"Re-enable the currently unused and broken dithering and noise shaping code ..."
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23:35:07preglowgive me the command line to fix the comment and i'll do it
23:36:22amiconnHmm, you can only change the commit msg per-file, and your commit changed a bunch...
23:36:55amiconncvs admin -m<revision>:<message> <file>
23:37:18preglowarhghgh
23:37:25amiconne.g. cvs admin -m1.57:"Re-enable...." apps/dsp.c
23:37:28preglowi can't give it a list of files?
23:37:49amiconnOnly if they all happen to have the same revision to be changed
23:38:04preglowin that case, i'm afraid the comment will just stand. it's fairly obvious that i fixed the code anyway
23:38:48*petur finds the comment ok
23:43:00 Quit akaias (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:44:12***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:44:43peturgrmpfh... 2 mallocs removed, 40 to go :(
23:45:06psiborgwhat's with the mallocs?
23:45:26 Join akaias [0] (n=akaias@76.16.18.102)
23:45:30peturcorrection... 22 to go
23:45:53peturpsiborg: no mallocs on rockbox
23:46:23preglowpetur: what're you hacking at?
23:46:32peturisp1362
23:46:56peturporting the philips code to rb
23:47:43peturbut it's not as portable as I thought :(
23:48:54Leardang, dithering does cause a little boost for me on mp3. :)
23:50:34preglowLear: player?
23:51:00LearH140, with replaygain, crossfeed and two equalizer bands.
23:51:08preglowthen small wonder, heh
23:51:20preglowit just barely boosts with dither and crossfeed alone
23:51:27Learwell, it was boost-free without dither, so...
23:51:35preglowthe dither can probably be assembly optimised easily, but i really don't want to waste time on something very few will appreciate
23:51:41amiconnLear: Try with the hold switch enabled
23:52:28Learno big difference at least...
23:52:29 Quit matsl (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:52:54 Join secleinteer [0] (n=scl@adsl-70-237-218-209.dsl.stlsmo.sbcglobal.net)
23:53:21Learpossibly a tad less boost, but it's hard to tell really.
23:53:21 Quit SXIII ()
23:55:36 Quit bundik ("Quit")
23:55:47psiborghow do i write the .cfg file with manage settings?
23:56:12peturplay
23:56:19psiborgi get into the file name editor thingy but it doesn't write
23:56:32andrewmelwhich player?
23:56:41psiborgipod nano
23:56:52andrewmelhold select, the central button
23:57:12psiborgcool, thanks, that's not very intuitive though ;)
23:57:29andrewmelwhat would be?
23:57:36psiborgplay would be
23:57:41scorchewe are open to suggestions of what would be
23:57:56psiborgplay doesn't do anything else afaik
23:58:00*scorche feels slow today

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