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#rockbox log for 2006-11-05

00:05:36jhMikeSpetur: should I keep that option to create files immediately or dump it? I just need some ops on that.
00:07:58 Quit ender` (" There are two major products that come out of Berkeley: LSD and UNIX. We don't believe this to be a coincidence. -- Jeremy S)
00:08:24peturdunno
00:09:12peturthat option causes no spinup when starting recording, right?
00:09:18jhMikeSIt's more of a paranoia thing really. Each file will be started immediatly on disk and the last flushed and closed instead of delaying everything till flush
00:09:24peturor the inverse of that rather
00:09:28jhMikeSyes
00:10:11jhMikeSThe disk will always spin on the first file if you don't have a RTC though since it must seach for the number
00:10:29peturIf you stop recording it flushes anyway, right?
00:10:38 Quit actionshrimp (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:10:45jhMikeSyes
00:11:18jhMikeSbut it will split gaplessly and save each stream at the split
00:11:45 Quit bundik ("Quit")
00:11:45peturI'd put it in comment
00:12:04jhMikeSit's already there to do it or not. not much of a deal to add or remove or add in again
00:12:09 Part joshin ("Gotta stop the kids from screaming")
00:13:02peturI don't think it's a feature somebody will miss if it's not there, and I'm a bit against adding yet another setting ;)
00:13:13 Quit RogerBacon ("Quitte")
00:14:00 Join matsl [0] (n=matsl@1-1-4-2a.mal.sth.bostream.se)
00:14:13rasherHow about simply being paranoid always?
00:14:20jhMikeSI concur. Internal mic users hated having the disk spin all the time but wasn't sure about others.
00:14:25rasherFew things worse than a taper who just lost his work
00:14:50peturyou only miss 3 minutes max
00:14:58jhMikeSThat's why I put it there...
00:15:26rasherJust seems to me that paranoia is the best way to go, if you're not adding an option
00:15:26peturit's not that you'd miss much audio, but you'd need to fix the header
00:15:29jhMikeSpetur: but if it doesn't finish the file the header won't be valid. I guess youd need a program that would read it anyway.
00:15:58peturI would rather not spin the disk ;)
00:16:04rasherBut I haven't been paying much attention to recording at all, so feel free to ignore me completely.
00:16:21*petur ignores rasher :p
00:18:02*jhMikeS says nothing
00:18:54rasherHrm. ~/.ccache is safe to delete at any time, right?
00:28:51*amiconn just noticed that xine uses libmpeg2 when playing DVDs
00:29:32jhMikeSxine? or xing or wine?
00:30:12amiconngxine
00:34:54 Quit rasher ("leaving")
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00:47:19 Quit Blackfish` ("( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.03 :: www.XLhost.de )")
00:47:37 Quit qailer ("Leaving")
00:47:44 Join xorAxAx [0] (n=xorAxax@ampleforth.srv.alexanderweb.de)
00:49:42 Part xorAxAx ("Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!")
00:50:05 Quit gtkspert (Remote closed the connection)
00:50:17 Nick JdG|zzzz is now known as JdGordon (n=jonno@c220-237-57-32.smelb1.vic.optusnet.com.au)
00:50:28peturgoodmorning ;)
00:50:49*petur is off to bed....
00:53:04 Join Davide-NYC [0] (n=chatzill@user-12hdtm5.cable.mindspring.com)
00:54:33***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:56:02 Join gtkspert [0] (n=gtkspert@gateless.info)
00:59:46Davide-NYChello all. THe silence is creey
00:59:54Davide-NYC*creepy
01:00
01:00:16 Quit lee-qid ("Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com")
01:00:43 Quit petur ("ZzzzZzzzZzzz.......BONK")
01:04:48 Quit tim66 (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
01:05:08JdGordonwhat -q settting for ogg is equiv to about 256kb/s mp3?
01:08:35obobetween 8 and 9? http://senab.iddx.net/rockbox/results.html
01:09:21obobut I think most say that > 6 it's impossible to abx any difference
01:09:47Davide-NYCJdGordon: -q 8 is just over 256 in general
01:09:51JdGordonok ta
01:10:07jhMikeScreeeepeeee
01:10:09JdGordoni tihnk q6 would be fine for my non-audiofle ears :p
01:10:32Davide-NYCI say go 8
01:10:50Davide-NYCbut htat's me with the $125 pair of sony over-ears
01:10:57Davide-NYClooking like a total dork
01:11:09JdGordonq 6 is already 6.8mb for 5min track.... i prefer more songs, not higher qual
01:11:18Davide-NYCthere ya go!
01:11:20Davide-NYC:-)
01:11:34jhMikeSthen just use the lowest setting
01:11:38amiconnlinuxstb: Updating source: in english.lang actually makes sense most of the time
01:11:55JdGordoni checked q4 nd i think thats even too low for me :p
01:11:58Davide-NYCjhMikeS: how's 'it' going?
01:12:04jhMikeSlol it's always english.lang
01:12:20amiconnA source: change is what will cause the entry to be marked in the other .lang files as needing attention
01:12:21jhMikeS'it"s' going pretty well
01:12:38Davide-NYCwill we be seeing 'it' soon?
01:12:42Davide-NYC;-)
01:12:47jhMikeSI think so.
01:13:23Davide-NYClike this weekend? cause after that I won;t be able to do anyhting in the way of testing
01:13:24jhMikeShas a quirk on the SPDIF output, but I mentioned that it's probably there already.
01:13:36amiconnThe only thing that should never be changed without special precautions is the id: field
01:13:37jhMikeSLike tonight or tomorrow.
01:13:39Davide-NYCdescribe the quirk
01:13:44Davide-NYC(please)
01:14:17jhMikeSIt doesn't always turn on when it should but I don't want to make this update any larger than it is. I'll address those things in bits and pieces.
01:14:17amiconnjhMikeS: What quirk? s/pdif out is working flawless here, and that's the only s/pdif feature I actually use
01:15:24jhMikeSamiconn: then maybe it's new. it's tied to recording. but if you put in on in the menu and play then it will be on all the time as it should.
01:15:59amiconnHmm, s/pdif and recording is a bit weird on h1x0
01:16:22Davide-NYCthere is no menu item for it is there?
01:16:31amiconnYou need to enable s/pdif power for s/pdif recording to work, something I wouldn't expect to be necessary
01:16:32jhMikeSFound it testing feed-through.
01:16:51 Join actionshrimp [0] (i=nn@cpc4-oxfd8-0-0-cust546.oxfd.cable.ntl.com)
01:16:54jhMikeSThere is in the playback settings
01:17:10amiconnBut if the user has disabled s/pdif out, the transceiver should be set to disabled, leaving the LED in a very dim state
01:17:19amiconnThat's how it works in cvs
01:17:56jhMikeSit's supposed to follow the setting but doesn't quite and throws it off
01:18:39jhMikeSWierd, mine is either on or off, not dim.
01:18:51amiconnI mean for recording
01:18:54Davide-NYCif there is anything specific you want me to test let me know and I'll try to get some time at the studio to do this.
01:19:04amiconnIf you set s/pdif to enabled, it has to be bright
01:19:06jhMikeSEven then.
01:19:09jhMikeSyes
01:19:17amiconnIf you set it to off it has to be completely off
01:19:50amiconnBut if you select s/pdif as recording source _and_ have disabled s/pdif out, it has to be dim
01:20:17jhMikeSbut after recording something isn't quite right and it stays off when playing
01:20:37jhMikeSI'll give a look
01:21:13jhMikeSDavide-NYC: I don't know. I think I have to put it out there and let the hate messages come :P
01:21:40Davide-NYCthat sounds like a good idea *if* you will have a little free time post commit
01:22:38Davide-NYCDim here
01:22:46jhMikeSDavide-NYC: that's what I plan on. I just don't want to keep updating the bulk part. I'd like to just have small enhancement and fixes to deal with.
01:22:47Davide-NYCvery very dim ;-)
01:22:55jhMikeSdim here too
01:23:01Davide-NYClol
01:24:33 Join pagefault [0] (i=pagefaul@pdpc/supporter/active/pagefault)
01:24:51 Quit pagefault (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:24:54 Join pagefault [0] (i=pagefaul@pdpc/supporter/active/pagefault)
01:25:02Davide-NYCright now, is there a way to config source dependant settings using a custom config file?
01:25:14Davide-NYCare there conditional switches in the config file?
01:25:58 Join _jhMikeS_ [0] (n=jethead7@adsl-75-46-178-121.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net)
01:27:41[g2]is today's daily a bad thing to build ? Re: errors on ‘USBPOWER_BTN_IGNORE’ and ‘USBPOWER_BUTTON’
01:28:32Davide-NYCalright fellas. I'm out.
01:28:46Davide-NYCI'll check back periodically for the BRP!
01:28:52_jhMikeS_dang ISP
01:29:00[g2]looks like that's specific to the e200 build
01:29:01Davide-NYCnice feet
01:29:06 Quit Davide-NYC ("Chatzilla 0.9.75 [Firefox 1.5.0.7/2006090918]")
01:29:11 Quit jhMikeS (Nick collision from services.)
01:29:19 Nick _jhMikeS_ is now known as jhMikeS (n=jethead7@adsl-75-46-178-121.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net)
01:34:48 Quit sucka (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:35:10jhMikeSwhat does playlist_viewer need with a call to talk_buffer_steal on SWCODEC just before playing something?
01:35:14jhMikeS:\
01:36:52[g2]I'm curious what you guys do for regression testing the nightly builds ?
01:38:06jhMikeS[g2]: I cry like a baby when it doesn't work if that's the kind of regression you mean :D
01:38:23[g2]lol
01:38:47 Join Paul_the_Nerd [0] (n=Llorean@cpe-66-69-210-194.austin.res.rr.com)
01:39:08[g2]jhMikeS I'm getting very interested in rockbox
01:39:26[g2]I've spent the last few years on other open source projects
01:40:10jhMikeSYou test test test before committing and hopefully noone will bring up further problems. If they do, you try to fix it and fast if it's serious. If it's bad enought things might get reverted.
01:40:29[g2]I've got some ideas for building rockbox hardware
01:40:42Paul_the_NerdMy friend's H120 is ailing. :(
01:40:45jhMikeS[g2]: That's been on my mind as well
01:41:08[g2]jhMikeS are you one of the devs ?
01:41:14jhMikeSTake a carcass of some other player and have the boards made somewhere
01:41:25jhMikeS[g2]: I suppose I am :)
01:41:54[g2]how long have you been with the project ?
01:42:35[g2]btw I think there's a much better strategy than a hw re-hash
01:42:37jhMikeSUmmm...July this year. That's the first time I even looked at the source in any detail and I presented a patch for the x5
01:43:40[g2]well I"m settting some automated regression testing for some other stuf (XScale based) hw
01:44:06jhMikeShw re-hash? Was thinking about new hardware hidden in an old player case.
01:44:22jhMikeSjust so it looks commercial :)
01:45:12[g2]jhMikeS you're thinking about 1-offs right ?
01:45:16Paul_the_Nerd[g2]: Were you thinking something in the flash-type line, using say CF for storage as is often popular, or going the HD based route?
01:45:56jhMikeS[g2]: a) sounds interesting b) yes, one-offs
01:46:00[g2]Paul_the_Nerd I've got 2 phased strategy in mind
01:46:14jhMikeSwere you thinking about production players with rb as the native os?
01:46:24[g2]1) do an accessory product that generates enough revenue to build a full out player
01:46:31[g2]2) build the full out player
01:46:49Paul_the_NerdWhat kind of accessory product would be suitable here though?
01:46:59 Join RogerBacon [0] (n=RogerBac@bas3-sherbrooke40-1177840109.dsl.bell.ca)
01:46:59scorche3) load rockbox as the os =)
01:47:13[g2]scorche that comes in 2
01:47:27*scorche shrugs
01:47:39[g2]I'm looking to develop sustainable open source models
01:48:05scorchethere has been a couple people recently that have wanted to create open hardware devices and load rockbox on it as the firmware
01:48:18[g2]it'd be an open hw project and I'd be looking to funnel funds back to the devs
01:48:49[g2]long-term I've got my eye on kicking apple/cisco a**
01:49:20jhMikeSyes...could use some extra cash :)
01:50:14Paul_the_NerdTo really kick Apple's ass, you still have to come up with some way to break/fight the iTunes/iPod bond.
01:50:22jhMikeSweird, that ideas been bumping around in my head too.
01:50:44jhMikeSyou can't fight iPod/iTunes!
01:50:52jhMikeSIt's the default choice
01:50:57[g2]<fantasy on>
01:51:04Paul_the_NerdThough, an MP3 player with hardware designed around Rockbox could *very* definitely win in the "High End" for sound quality and functionality if you aimed for there.
01:51:19scorchealso, a big reason that people buy ipods is because of the image and the fact that there are so many accessories for them
01:51:30[g2]IP TV content is gonna end run the cable companies/ satellite companies
01:51:58Paul_the_Nerdscorche: Which is why you see the Sansa/Rhapsody with an already growing accessory lineup.
01:52:07jhMikeSUnless they buy everything out (sorry if I sound jaded)
01:52:09scorchebut amongst the tech community, what Paul_the_Nerd said would be very useful and appreciated
01:52:14scorchePaul_the_Nerd: of course
01:52:19[g2]the music industry will fragment in 5 years after the video content delivery having fully paved the way
01:52:26[g2]</fantasy on>
01:52:44Paul_the_NerdAs it is, Rockbox is most popular among two crowds, I think: Tapers, and the blind.
01:53:18jhMikeSTapers are gonna have my nuts tonight or tommorrow *LOL*
01:53:22scorcheand those who are tech-aware and cannot stand the ipods
01:53:40scorchealso, those with older devices
01:54:05Paul_the_NerdBut those aren't people *seeking* Rockbox, really
01:54:17[g2]so re-accessories.... The accessory I'm thinking about would start off being a universal accessory with plug-ins for different hw
01:54:19Paul_the_NerdOften those are just people who find it.
01:54:50[g2]one universal rockbox dock to rule-them-all
01:54:58jhMikeSI just found rb by accident and was taken in immediately...
01:55:02jhMikeSRockDock?
01:55:07[g2]with plug-in modules for each major player
01:55:18[g2]snap one in, snap one out
01:55:38[g2]player upgrade, just get an additional plug in module
01:55:48Paul_the_NerdLike the Apple dock, but more versatile.
01:55:58[g2]Paul_the_Nerd yeah exactly
01:56:16*obo would love a dock that wired up everything possible in an ipod connector...
01:56:17[g2]Paul_the_Nerd no vendor specific lock-in
01:56:29[g2]obo we can do it
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01:57:10 Join midkay__ [0] (n=midkay@c-67-160-70-46.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
01:57:16[g2]sparkfun sells the ipod connectors for like $2
01:57:20scorche[g2]: an issue with that is that you would have to figure out all of the transfer protocols and applicable hardware
01:57:38scorcheoh...as just a cable?
01:57:38jhMikeSCan we play audio out a USB port on a player that normally lacks a digital output?
01:58:04[g2]scorche like rockbox doesn't already know the insides of most of the players ?
01:58:20[g2]and maybe it only works with rockbox sw
01:58:20Paul_the_NerdWell, USB connectivity isn't a problem.
01:58:29scorche[g2]: most, yes...but ipods and other newer devices, no
01:58:32Paul_the_NerdBut the iPods have the serial interface which isn't known yet.
01:58:46Paul_the_NerdNot that it's terribly useful for a dock anyway
01:58:49[g2]scorche in-field upgrade
01:58:50 Join Hostile [0] (n=lanteau@72.241.106.60)
01:58:56Paul_the_NerdFrom the dock all you *really* need is the line in/out pins and the USB, right?
01:59:07Hostilehey guys, Im using rockbox on my 5g iPod, is there anyway to make the font bigger?
01:59:17Paul_the_NerdHostile: Yes, browse fonts and pick a larger one
01:59:18[g2]Paul_the_Nerd depends on what you are trying to accomplish
01:59:36Paul_the_Nerd[g2]: This is true.
01:59:39*jhMikeS notices noone answered that one
02:00
02:00:19HostilePaul_the_Nerd: I click the browse fonts, it does nothing
02:00:28Paul_the_Nerd[g2]: Another thing is that for say... the h100 series, the USB connection is on the bottom (standard USB) but the 'accessory' part is on the top (remote port + headphone jack)
02:00:33Paul_the_NerdHostile: Did you download the font archive?
02:00:37scorcheHostile: do you have the font pack installed?
02:00:42[g2]jhMikeS I'm not sure I get the question
02:00:53Hostileapparently, not, sorry for my stupid questions
02:01:02Paul_the_NerdjhMikeS: It depends on the player
02:01:16jhMikeSwas thinking for something like x5
02:01:19Paul_the_NerdjhMikeS: In theory, any of the players that have USB hosting have a chance of being able to do it depending on what the controller itself is capable of.
02:01:27Hostilewhere on the website do I download the font pack?
02:01:33Paul_the_NerdHostile: Daily builds page
02:02:00HostilePaul_the_Nerd: thanks
02:03:20amiconnjhMikeS: With usb host capabilities it should be possible to connect an usb sound card or something that contains one
02:03:42amiconnThen it's a question of implementing the appropriate usb class
02:03:45jhMikeSyeah, if we get the host thing going
02:04:03[g2]jhMikeS what you trying to do ?
02:04:04amiconnOf course
02:04:47[g2]jhMikeS you want to run a USB host for any device with an OTG controller ?
02:04:49jhMikeSdigital output on a device that doesn't officially have one
02:05:36jhMikeSx5 has a USBOTG chip but it's not figure out yet. the docs are only available under non-disclosure
02:05:36HostilePaul_the_Nerd: I presume there is more themes I can get too?
02:05:55[g2]jhMikeS "digital output" like audio over usb ?
02:06:00Paul_the_NerdHostile: Check the WpsGallery page in the wiki
02:06:14jhMikeS[g2]: Yes
02:06:30HostilePaul_the_Nerd: thanks again :)
02:06:40[g2]jhMikeS what do you want on the host side ?
02:06:48[g2]usb host side
02:07:02jhMikeSBut that could be converted to an SPDIF output or somesuch
02:07:20jhMikeSTo be able to just read a camera would be a good start
02:07:28[g2]jhMikeS yeah sure, I'm asking what kind of device you are imagining
02:08:08jhMikeSstaying simple ATM...simple audio out over a USB port.
02:08:45 Join yipe [0] (n=yipely@12-218-163-227.client.mchsi.com)
02:08:54yipehi rockboxers
02:09:13yipeshould I stop calling my ipod an ipod, since I use rockbox all the time?
02:09:17yipemaybe rockPod?
02:09:26yipeor just call it a rockbox
02:09:38jhMikeSThe H120 has SPDIF connectors but the x5 does not and perhaps the usb could be the way to have it there too.
02:09:49yipeoh, you're doing serious talking
02:10:06amiconnjhMikeS: Forget it. No chance other than usb otg
02:10:20amiconnThe usb pins aren't directly connected to the cpu
02:10:21jhMikeSthought not
02:10:27Paul_the_NerdDon't all the portalplayers theoretically have USBOTG too?
02:10:29 Quit Nibbier (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
02:10:42Paul_the_NerdOr the capability at least
02:11:08*jhMikeS gets pissed that hardware is so underutilized
02:11:33jhMikeSby the OEMs
02:13:26 Quit midkay_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:13:48 Part Paul_the_Nerd
02:14:24 Quit obo ("bye")
02:15:27JdGordondoes anyone know where in the code the SWCODEC buffer is monitored? (assuming it is)
02:17:25jhMikeSMonitored?
02:17:43JdGordonits level... weather its getting low and need sto be rebuffered
02:19:56jhMikeShmmm...can find it
02:20:07scorcheaudio i think...
02:20:16 Quit TeaSea (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
02:20:25scorchefirmware/export
02:20:42jhMikeSaudio_get_debug_data
02:20:43scorcheerrr...nvm...that is juts a .h
02:21:13JdGordonhmm... ok, this might not be as easy as i thought
02:21:57jhMikeSthat's HWCODEC
02:22:40jhMikeSdebug_menu.c ... dbg_audio_thread
02:24:09scorchethat is where it gets displayed, but is that where it is monitored and gets refilled from?
02:24:19JdGordonit cant be....
02:24:21scorchedoesnt look like it...
02:24:30jhMikeSoh...
02:24:37jhMikeSpcmbuf.c and playback.c
02:26:02 Quit matsl ("Leaving")
02:26:25scorcheah yeah...
02:26:43[g2]jhMikeS you're a hw guy right ?
02:26:51jhMikeSI had to change the whole layout of it
02:27:12[g2]or just device level sw guy ?
02:27:14jhMikeS[g2]: I don't know. I'll become whatever the task requires
02:27:38[g2]heh.. you sound like a conslultant :)
02:28:22jhMikeSyeah maybe, but I'll do the work too :)
02:29:14[g2]jhMikeS so why do you want the digital out ?
02:31:17jhMikeS[g2]: strictly a can it be done thing. I don't really need a digital out for x5. I have an H120 afterall.
02:31:46 Join Paul_the_Nerd [0] (n=Llorean@cpe-66-69-210-194.austin.res.rr.com)
02:34:13[g2]jhMikeS I think there's tons of flexibility there
02:34:19jhMikeSthe USBOTG chip has to be RE'd yet on the software level anyway. The lack USBOTG for x5 is the only reason I've ever used the OF since putting rockbox on it.
02:34:57Paul_the_NerdThat and Video are the most cited reasons for OF use on the H300 as well
02:35:25aliaskI can't believe people seriously watch video on the H300
02:35:45jhMikeSOF video on the x5 blows...12fps MPEG4 avi only.
02:35:45[g2]~OF
02:35:52Paul_the_Nerd10fps video on the H300 isn't it?
02:35:56aliaskYep
02:35:56Soapnever underestimate what young men will put up with for porn.
02:35:59[g2]open firmware ?
02:36:05Paul_the_Nerd[g2]: Original Firmware
02:36:14Paul_the_NerdRockbox is Rockbox, whatever was there before is "OF"
02:36:30[g2]OF and RF :)
02:36:37aliask*RB
02:36:42[g2]OF is dead, long live RF
02:36:56[g2]Rockbox Firmware
02:37:36Paul_the_NerdThough AppleOS sometimes gets a unique identifier since it somehow gets brought up a lot
02:37:36jhMikeSIt feels more soft and cuddly than firmware
02:38:08shatteredfluffy-ware?
02:38:41jhMikeSpoofy-ware even...like the clouds and butter :P
02:39:01[g2]my understanding is OF is rarely replaced
02:39:12[g2]is just not the default load from the bootloader
02:39:44jhMikeSIt's often combined for dual boot
02:40:27Paul_the_NerdSometimes it's replaced, especially if that can offer advantages, but in general it's an optional step.
02:43:05 Join Nibbier [0] (n=sven@port-212-202-78-72.dynamic.qsc.de)
02:46:40aliaskHow were the hardware addresses for the H100/H300 found? Was is pure RE'ing?
02:48:55[g2]any codec wizards around ?
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02:54:36***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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03:00
03:01:14Paul_the_Nerd[g2]: What kinda codec wizardry are you looking for, anyway?
03:02:07[g2]Paul_the_Nerd I'm just looking to understand the rockbox implementation better
03:02:15[g2]I'm reading the docs now
03:02:43[g2]I've built the nano firmware and saw different codec files
03:02:52 Join pfault [0] (i=pagefaul@bas2-toronto12-1167861514.dsl.bell.ca)
03:03:27Paul_the_Nerd[g2]: There's a very *very* brief summary at the end of this page, not really technical: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/SoftwareCodecPlayback
03:03:48[g2]Paul_the_Nerd thx
03:07:29HostileI downloaded the Green iPod 5g theme, in the screenshot it has the nowplaying screen themed and the menu themed, but on mine the theme is only applied to the Now playing, how can I theme my menus?
03:08:09pfaultI think my h10 is screwed
03:08:13pfaulttime for an upgrade
03:09:48Paul_the_NerdHostile: The "iPod Green5g" theme requires an unofficial build, which we don't provide support for. That being said, you are selecting it from "Browse Themes" and the backdrop for the menu is in the proper backdrops folder?
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03:10:16HostilePaul_the_Nerd: correct, and I do have the unofficial build, so thats not the issue
03:10:44pfaulthow well does the rockbox run on the nano
03:11:11Paul_the_NerdHostile: Well, the unofficial build may have problems. As i said, we don't support them, they aren't ours. Have you tried setting the backdrop manually?
03:11:22Paul_the_Nerdpfault: Similarly to the H10
03:11:26HostilePaul_the_Nerd: nope, How would I set it manually?
03:11:28pfaultok dokie
03:11:39pfaultsame hardware? almost
03:11:43Paul_the_NerdHostile: Browse to the file, open the context menu, and choose to set it as backdrop
03:11:44pfaultI assume it's ARM based as well
03:11:52HostilePaul_the_Nerd: k
03:11:53Paul_the_Nerdpfault: Similar hardware. Same series of processors even.
03:11:58pfaultoh nice
03:12:04pfaultwell I have extended warranty on my h10
03:12:08pfaultand they no longer carry them
03:12:14pfaultso I am probably going to go with a nano
03:12:36scorchewell, doubt they still have the 1st gens
03:12:42scorchebut you can see
03:12:53Paul_the_NerdAnd the 2nd Gen Nano doesn't have *any* Rockbox yet.
03:12:53pfaulthow many generations did they make
03:13:11pfaultwould I be better off with an ipod mini if I can find one
03:13:35scorcheI would much rather have a 1st gen nano than a mini
03:13:36pfaultor are there many generations of those as well
03:13:40scorchebut that is just me
03:13:49scorcheif you get a mini, try to get a 2nd gen
03:13:50pfaultis there any way of telling what generation it is from the box
03:14:02pfaultI really would like some rockbox compatible hardware
03:14:03scorchenanos: yes
03:14:09scorcheminis: dont think so
03:14:45scorcheyou can see if it is a second gen or a first gen if you look at the back of the actual device
03:15:22Paul_the_NerdFor minis
03:15:29Paul_the_NerdActually you can tell on the face either.
03:15:42Paul_the_NerdIf the labels on the scrollwheel match the color of the aluminum, or not.
03:16:05scorchealso, second gen minis have a label on the back of them that says the space of the micro drive
03:16:10Paul_the_NerdYup
03:16:20Paul_the_NerdNanos look distinctly different between the two generations
03:16:38scorcheand come in different packaging
03:17:19Paul_the_NerdNot to mention, they only come in black and white, and don't go over 4gb, so that alone covers it. :) The only black 2G Nanos are the highest capacity ones, and I don't believe there are white ones.
03:17:23pfaultif worst comes to worst i'll just get the ipod photo
03:18:20scorchei would try to find a plain old 5g before going to a photo
03:18:46 Quit pagefault (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
03:18:51scorchethere are still issues with the 4g grayscale and photo
03:18:54pfaultisn't there a 5.5g now or something that doesn't work
03:19:05scorcheyeah
03:19:09pfaultoh wonderful
03:19:12pfaultso it's like roulette
03:19:19scorcheas i said...try to get a 5.0g if it comes down to that
03:19:22Paul_the_NerdWell the 5.5G isn't a photo, it's a video.
03:19:33pfaultso the 5g is just a normal ipod with colour
03:19:36pfaultno video
03:19:40Paul_the_Nerdscorche: Don't for get the "5G"s that are actually "5.5G"
03:19:48Paul_the_NerdThe 5G and 5.5G are both Video
03:20:04scorchePaul_the_Nerd: yeah...i was getting to that =)
03:21:04pfaultI wish it was like linksys routers
03:21:08pfaultwhere they put the revision on the box
03:21:41scorchewell, if the serial is on the box, you7 can check by that
03:21:42HostilePaul_the_Nerd: when I click a theme, is it loading the .cfg file for it?
03:21:43Paul_the_NerdWRT-54G Revision 2. :)
03:21:48Paul_the_NerdHostile: Yes.
03:21:50pfaultI have the 1.1
03:22:13scorchebut as Paul_the_Nerd said, the regular 5Gs have a firmware revision that makes them act as 5.5s
03:22:15HostilePaul_the_Nerd: im looking at the cfg for this theme, it has the backdrop, font, and all that set, yet the only thing it loads is the wps
03:22:23scorcheor at least as he referred to
03:22:37Paul_the_Nerdscorche: Some of the ones with 5G serial numbers even have the 2048-sized sector issue
03:22:51pfaultso is there any progress to getting the 5.5's working
03:23:05scorchePaul_the_Nerd: i grouped it into one line to make things simpler to understand
03:23:06Paul_the_NerdHostile: Did you try manually changing the backdrop as I suggested?
03:23:38Paul_the_Nerdscorche: The firmware revision isn't the problem though. A 5G upgraded to the firmware doesn't develop the problem, even when restored, only a new-from-store 5G running that firmware *might* have the problem
03:23:54Paul_the_Nerdpfault: There is progress, but it's not done yet. There are things that don't seem to work for no apparent reason yet
03:24:09scorcheyeah...i grouped it into a semi-accurate blanket term i guess then
03:24:09pfaultwell if I am lucky they have a h10 already
03:24:15pfaultand I can just swap it
03:24:24pfaultI think I saw 1 in the case when I was there last week
03:24:39HostilePaul_the_Nerd: yeah, it works, I would think it would do more than just set a backdrop, because if you look at the theme here: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/WpsIpod5g notice in the menu that the menu is spaced under the titlebar, with just the backdrop set the menu is all the way against the top
03:25:30Paul_the_NerdHostile: That is a function of the unofficial build, and I could care less about it. If you need help with features that aren't part of the official Rockbox, you should communicate with the author of the unofficial build.
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03:25:54pfaultor I wonder if I can go to futureshop with my bestbuy warranty
03:25:57pfaultthey still carry the h10
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03:26:02pfaultit's the same company
03:26:20Hostileoh, sorry, I wasn't aware that rockbox didn't do that itself
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03:32:43Hostilecan rockbox do any kind of video playing?
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03:34:04Soapm2v - elemental MPEG2 video.
03:34:07Soapno audio.
03:34:40Hostileis it a work in progress?
03:36:05 Join the_lord [0] (n=the_lord@200.8.97.42)
03:36:14the_lordHi!
03:36:34the_lordwhere can I find themes for rockbox in an iPod Video?
03:37:11Soapthe WPS gallery
03:37:25Soapwiki / ipod port / links there.
03:37:37the_lordSoap: thx
03:37:46the_lordhttp://www.rockbox-themes.org/index.php
03:37:49the_lordlol
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03:38:59the_lordthere's no themes for the menues? only for WPS???
03:41:29wehnYou can change font, colour, back round as well as turn on off scroll back, status bar etc.
03:41:29scorchefor menus, you can change the backdrop and font
03:41:35scorchesome themes change it, some dont
03:41:43scorcheactually, most do
03:41:54wehnscroll bar i meant
03:42:07the_lordummm
03:42:17the_lordI love the way it pauses
03:42:25the_lordI've just installed it
03:42:39HostilePaul_the_Nerd: it magically started working, thanks for your help
03:42:57the_lordand there's anyway else to create tag cache in my computer?
03:42:58 Quit sucka ("( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.01 :: www.XLhost.de )")
03:43:11the_lordinstead doing it in the iPod?
03:43:30the_lordand is video playback supported yet?
03:43:38scorchethere is a way, but it is a perl script
03:44:10scorche<Hostile> can rockbox do any kind of video playing? #rockbox
03:44:10scorche<Soap> m2v - elemental MPEG2 video.
03:44:10scorche<Soap> no audio.
03:44:24scorchejust because it was right before you joined =)
03:44:38scorcheand it is a work in progress still of course
03:44:38the_lordhmm
03:44:43the_lordscorche: thx
03:44:47the_lordyes, I know
03:45:14the_lordI hope I'll join the developer team in vacations
03:45:22Hostilethe_lord: Im using the Green_5g theme, its pretty
03:46:00the_lordHostile: I'm looking for a way to have both rockbox and iPos OS at the same time
03:46:10the_lordjust like ipodlinux
03:46:17scorcheit is dual boot by default
03:46:34the_lordscorche: and how do I boot to the iPod OS?
03:46:35scorchehold menu while booting to go into the apple firmware
03:46:42the_lordhmmm
03:46:51the_lordlet me see
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03:51:11the_lordhow do I reboot?
03:51:18the_lordI know how to poweroff
03:51:58scorchesame way you do it int he apple firmware
03:52:03scorcheor any other
03:52:08scorchemenu + select
03:52:21scorchebut keep in mind that it isnt a "clean reboot"
03:52:49the_lordscorche: it loads rockbox
03:52:58scorcheyes
03:52:59the_lordand I keep pressen menu
03:53:04the_lord*pressed
03:53:06scorchekeep trying
03:53:14scorcheit may take a few times to get used to it
03:53:24scorchemake sure and hold your thumb still
03:53:45the_lordscorche: now it worked :D
03:53:46the_lordthx
04:00
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04:04:09Hostileis there anyway I can make my rockbox scroll by letters or something because I have a lot of artists, and scrolling takes foreverr
04:05:06scorchethere is an ipod scroll wheel acceleration patch in the tracker
04:05:38Hostilehmm, I'm lazy though
04:05:51scorchethen learn to live with it
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04:06:54scorcheyou can also organize your music better so you do not have to deal with large directories
04:07:43HostileIm using tagcache, it sorts by artist.
04:08:15scorcheyou can create your own, customized tagnavi.config
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04:09:18Hostilewould that allow me to do like, Artists A-K, Artists L-S and such?
04:09:28scorcheyes
04:10:42Hostilehmm, is there an example file I could get somewhere?
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04:11:58scorchethis thread has some examples
04:12:01scorchehttp://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=6661.0
04:12:27scorchekeep in mind that the beginning was that something was wrong about it, so read through till the end where solutions were given
04:12:41Hostileany idea what, Data abort at E800008A would mean?
04:12:50scorchefor what device?
04:13:18Hostile5g iPod
04:13:37scorchejust a sec
04:16:13scorchebtw, there is also this: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/TagCache#tagnavi_config_v2_0_Syntax
04:16:57Hostilescorche: do I name the file tagnavi.config and put it in the .rockbox dir?
04:17:30scorche...you rename it "tagnavi.config" and move it into the directory
04:17:53JdGordonrename it to tagnavi_custom.config so you dont have to worry about it being overwriten when u update rockbox
04:18:08scorcheah...that is what he meant
04:18:31Hostileokay, do I have to do anything special for it to recognize it?
04:18:49JdGordonenable the tag browser
04:18:52Hostilek
04:18:52JdGordonand initialize it
04:19:59Hostileworks good, thanks guys :)
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04:41:58Hostilescorche: ever find out what Data abort at E800007A means?
04:43:14scorcheah yeah...sorry...forgot
04:44:31Hostilescorche: it did it again
04:44:37scorchehow?
04:44:52Hostileit seems to happen when going to play AAC files, not everytime
04:44:54Hostilebut often
04:45:30scorcheis it reproducible ?
04:46:10Hostilelet me see
04:47:40HostileI just did it again
04:49:06Hostileyep, I have this AAC file that does it everytime
04:49:52Hostileall these AAC files are like doing it lol.
04:50:02scorchehow were they encoded?
04:50:22HostileiTunes
04:51:07Hostilethey are 192kbs VBR I think.
04:54:38***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
04:56:28the_lordwhere can I find the iTunesDB to tag cache db?
04:56:58the_lord*script
04:58:28HostileiTunes_Control/iTunes/
04:58:36HostileiPod_Control*
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05:00
05:06:09the_lordwhere do all the .tcb files go?
05:06:43the_lordI've put them in .rockbox, and rockbox tells me that tagcache hasn't finished
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05:07:23Hostileshut down and restart
05:08:56the_lordHostile: no, your windows-like method didn't work
05:11:25Hostilethe_lord: it didnt initialize them when you restarted?
05:11:31the_lordnope
05:11:35Hostilehmm
05:11:42Hostilefile view is set to ID3 database?
05:12:25the_lordyes
05:12:38Hostileand all those tagcache files are in .rockbox?
05:15:51the_lordyes
05:16:24JdGordonanyone awake know if it is bad to call the audio_fill_file_buffer() function from any other thread other than the audio thread?
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05:22:59hcsI'm working on compiling the itunesdb to tagcache converter for windows, we'll see how far I get... should shut a few people up.
05:24:28Hostilegood luck
05:24:47 Quit PaulJam (".")
05:31:46the_lordthat converter works just fine in linux
05:33:19hcsyep, I use it myself
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05:44:18heathI'm running the latest firmware on my 3g ipod and I can't connect with my system through USB nor Firewire - any ideas?
05:44:47heathI have the errors from dmesg if that helps
05:45:56heathanyone alive?
05:54:29the_lordheath: here
05:54:39the_lordpaste dmesg output
05:55:28heathusb 1-2: USB disconnect, address 13
05:55:28heathusb 2-2: new full speed USB device using ohci_hcd and address 39
05:55:28heathusb 2-2: device descriptor read/64, error -110
05:55:28DBUGEnqueued KICK heath
05:55:28heathusb 2-2: device descriptor read/64, error -110
05:55:28heathusb 2-2: new full speed USB device using ohci_hcd and address 40
05:55:29***Alert Mode level 1
05:55:29heathusb 2-2: device descriptor read/64, error -110
05:55:31heathusb 2-2: device descriptor read/64, error -110
05:55:33heathusb 2-2: new full speed USB device using ohci_hcd and address 41
05:55:35heathusb 2-2: device not accepting address 41, error -110
05:55:37heathusb 2-2: new full speed USB device using ohci_hcd and address 42
05:55:39heathusb 2-2: device not accepting address 42, error -110
05:57:12JdGordonreload the ohci_hcd module, and maybe the entire usb modle
05:57:16JdGordonor just reboot...
05:57:20heathok
05:58:09heathI'll be back in a minute
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06:00
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06:04:28the_lordheath: it worked?
06:04:35heathno same errors
06:04:57heathdo I need to put the ipod in disk mode or something?
06:05:30***Alert Mode OFF
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06:06:45heathIf I boot the apple firmware it works fine
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06:13:42dseebaCan rockbox resume playing the same song after restarting?
06:14:05scorcheat the same place too =
06:14:09scorche)
06:14:52JerryLangeanybody know where i can get a used working 4g 20gb hard drive? anybody have a broken ipod around the house?
06:15:14scorcheheath: that is very odd considering that anytime you connect it to the computer, it will use apple os
06:15:18scorcheJerryLange: ebay
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06:15:35heathscorche, I reformatted it with fat32
06:15:56dseebascorche, right. It doesn't seem to work at the moment, but I wonder if I am missing something
06:15:59heathfirewire has the same problem
06:16:10scorchedseeba: what device?
06:16:17dseebaipod nano
06:16:40scorcheheath: firewire isnt supported...you need to put the ipod in disk mode manually with firewire
06:16:56heathscorche, well that seems to working now
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06:17:14heathI have a feeling it might be because I'm using the USB cord from my Nano
06:17:23heathnot the usb cord for the 3g
06:17:23JerryLangeyeah i checked ebay but there pretty spendy on there. i think i want to find a cheap one for this ipod 4g till i get money for a 5.5g
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06:17:45scorchedseeba: well, assuming that you shut down cleanly (hold play), you should be able to resume by just by pressing play at startup
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06:18:07scorcheheath: doubt it, but i do not know
06:18:23CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
06:18:23*heath shrugs
06:18:28heathI don't know either
06:18:33scorchethe fact that it works "while using apple firmware" is very odd considering that we use apple's diskmode...like i said
06:18:44heathyup
06:19:01scorcheJerryLange: well, i have no clue beyond that...we really dont deal with the spare ipod parts here =)
06:19:02heathso what program on Linux should I use to build play lists?
06:19:13scorcheanything you like
06:19:17scorchemplayer?
06:19:18dseebascorche: you're right that does work. Thanks alot.
06:19:24scorchenot sure, bnut it shoudl create m3u
06:19:28heathdoes it just read m3u files
06:19:32heathok
06:19:38scorchetry it
06:19:43scorcheif not, vim works =)
06:19:51heathvim always works
06:19:54scorchebut i am sure there are plenty others
06:21:19JerryLangeyeah i figured i checked spareparrts wiki on rockbox but nothing really just stuff wanted.
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06:22:57Archowdy
06:23:13Arcanyone know if there's been any progress on supporting V5-late2006 (aka 5.5)?
06:23:21Arcipod, i mean
06:24:30scorcheArc: any progress is being reported in the thread about it on the forums
06:25:42Arcwhich forum?
06:26:05scorchethe rockbox forum
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06:27:35telliott_Is A-B repeat working on the V1 recorder yet? I can't get on+RW or on+ff to do anything in A-B Repeat mode.
06:28:02scorcheas to the yet part, it has been working there for a very long time
06:28:24scorchei havent checked whether it is in a working state atm (could be a bug)
06:28:25telliott_What am I doing wrong?
06:29:15 Quit dseeba ("Leaving")
06:29:45scorchelooks like play and left/right from the manual
06:29:55scorchelet me check
06:30:41scorcheerrr...nvm...i have a build on my device that doesnt work =)
06:30:48scorcheno time to build a new one atm
06:30:58telliott_It works in 2.5
06:31:13heathok new problem, when playing it stops momentarily every 10 sec or so
06:31:31JdGordonhave u got the peakbar showing on the wps?
06:31:47scorcheheath: do you have eq on? crossfade on? peakmeters ont he wps?
06:31:53 Quit hcs (Nick collision from services.)
06:33:40heathscorche, all those are off
06:34:27scorchewhat wps are you using?
06:37:41heathjust the default one
06:37:45heathI turned off scrolling
06:38:01scorchethe default wps uses peakmeters
06:39:04scorchei would suggest you use a different custom one or icatcher
06:39:44Arcit sounds like 5.5 support is close but not here yet
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06:51:15heathok, so reading the wiki it seems as though the ipod 3g has some issues, I should have read that a little more closer
06:53:04andrewmelI have had a good look but am having probelems finding sounds as signed shorts. I have seen some on the space invaders rock in the patches, but none of them are the "ding" sound I am looking for, any ideas?
06:54:41***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
07:00
07:03:58newbyx86hmm...
07:04:01newbyx86dcron, fcron, or vixie-cron.
07:04:04newbyx86thoughts? any gentoo users here? :p
07:06:58heathwhenever I've installed gentoo I've always gone with vixie-cron
07:07:06heathcause that's what the docs suggested
07:07:20newbyx86yea
07:07:23newbyx86I am gonna go with dcron
07:07:25newbyx86since that's what slackware uses
07:07:30newbyx86i may try vixie cron in the future though :p
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07:07:58heathlinux, its all about choice
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07:08:37newbyx86yep
07:08:42newbyx86lilo or grub.... I love both. I think I'll do grub.
07:08:45newbyx86Now I'll have all 3 in the house.
07:08:51newbyx86lilo on this, grub on that, and teh freebsd one on my laptop :D
07:11:15JdGordonmidkay: i got your rebuffering idea working, and its great, except the disk doesnt spin very often in regular usage.. so there isnt heaps of benifit, but if you dont use dircache i think it would add heaps
07:11:43midkayJdGordon: that's cool - actually i just checked your last comment half an hour ago or so.
07:12:09midkayJdGordon: yeah, i don't expect huge improvements, but it's useful for whenever you might happen to (browsing around, launching plugins, etc).
07:13:07JdGordonyeah, ive got it queing up a rebuffer if it gets under 75% full... but the rebuffer isnt garenteed to happen, because it does depend on disk usage
07:13:16 Quit daurnimator (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
07:13:37JdGordonits on fs if u wanna check it out
07:13:42midkayright - not a major battery-life improvement, but just a kind of supplement for frequent browsers.
07:13:50JdGordonyeah, exactly
07:13:52midkayi don't have a compiler even right now, sorry..
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07:17:10midkayone thing you might wanna do is add some option for it, btw.. choices like "Rebuffer on Disk Spinup" -> "Off", "Only Played Tracks", "All Played Buffer" (need to come up with a better name) and like.. "All Played Buffer When Buffer Below [x]%" where x = like 50, 25, ..
07:17:46JdGordonmeh, that just complicates it...
07:19:15midkaywell, all have their own benefits and disadvantages for people who play in different ways. off if you like to skip back a lot, only played tracks if you never go back a track but maybe skip around in the current one, all played buffer if you never rewind or skip back, and all played buffer on x% if you go by the idea of "it's really low, it'll be rebuffered anyways in just a moment".
07:20:34midkaymaybe all aren't crucial, but it'd be very useful. Off/Only Tracks Played/All When Below 25%/All When Below 50%/All sound like good option names
07:20:54midkayi can code that up in the not-TOO-distant future if that's unappealing to you.
07:21:06JdGordonif the buffer has the next 5 tracks in the buffer, can you skip forward 3 and then back 2 and the buffer will still be usable?
07:21:20midkayyes, as it currently is.
07:21:26midkayyou can skip around anywhere in the buffer.
07:21:28JdGordonoh, ok
07:22:10JdGordonanyway, this is completly useless unless something gets the disk spinning, which is why i say the options are really needed
07:22:22midkayso each option is useful for people who like to either backtrack, rewind, have the option to, or just listen straightforward - each seperately.
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07:22:31JdGordonthe only time the buffer actually forces a rebuffer if it gets down to really low
07:22:46midkayyou said 75% right? that sounds pretty high to me.
07:23:55JdGordonyeah, 75%.. i dunno, i was using this build for about 15min before and i doubt it rebuffered once because of this
07:24:07JdGordonbecause i didnt browse or skip at all
07:24:40midkayyeah, it's just a side-effect. people who don't browse or use plugins won't see any benefit whatsoever.
07:25:34midkaythis is merely a bonus for anybody who is a browser or a plugin-er (?.. :) - and for the people who are, being able to tell Rockbox their listening habits out of five choices would be nice to have it work the way they want it to.
07:26:04JdGordonyeah, i guess we'll have to see what the swedes think :
07:26:04JdGordonD
07:26:12midkaye.g. we shouldn't assume that they never wanna skip back a track or even rewind, but if they never do skip back or rewind frequently enough to warrant keeping it in buffer, might as well fill it off completely whenever possible.
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07:26:45midkayyeah :) if they're cool with it, coding up an option for it won't be hard and it'd be very cool to see in cvs. i've never seen the feature elsewhere and i'm betting some people would like it.
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08:05:02Jungti1234hi
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08:14:26markunhi Jungti1234
08:15:02Jungti1234oh, hi markun
08:15:10Jungti1234http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/6290
08:15:50markunok, thank Jungti, I will commit it.
08:16:05Jungti1234ok
08:16:40Jungti1234I want now :)
08:17:11markunI'll do it now :)
08:17:25Jungti1234OK!
08:18:05 Nick myzar|away is now known as myzar (i=pwnt@c-24-103-130-103.client.hacked.us)
08:18:14vertic23korean?
08:18:21Jungti1234yes, korean.
08:20:17markunJungti1234: done!
08:21:00Jungti1234good, thanks
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08:24:51Jungti1234hi aliask
08:25:00aliaskHi Jungti1234!
08:25:05aliaskLong time no see
08:25:07Jungti1234long time no see
08:25:09Jungti1234haha
08:26:52aliask:)
08:27:47Jungti1234how are you?
08:30:45aliaskBusy, I have my last exams for school this week, so I have to study lots
08:31:14JdGordonu dont have to study... yr12 doesnt mean anything..
08:31:39aliaskExcept I need a decent ENTER to get into uni.
08:31:50JdGordonyeah.. apart from that..
08:31:53JdGordonwhat dp u want to get into?
08:32:02aliaskengineering prolly
08:32:11JdGordonboring :D
08:32:34aliaskI know... but I just don't know what else I should do
08:32:38aliaskWhat are you in?
08:32:51JdGordonyou taking a year off? or going straight into uni?
08:32:54JdGordonsoftware eng
08:33:09aliaskLike it?
08:33:13JdGordonnope
08:33:22JdGordoni like programming tho, so im stuck here :p
08:33:52aliaskHeh.
08:41:59Jungti1234bye all
08:42:05Jungti1234seeya
08:42:17aliaskSeeya jungti
08:42:23Jungti1234:)
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09:02:20GnelikHi!
09:02:45aliaskHiya Gnelik
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09:15:15GnelikBagder: may we use record button in e200 for other function not "Begin recording"
09:15:18Gnelik??
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10:21:50Joelyhehe hi everyone!! i kinda took a soldering iron to my sansa...and i'm too afraid to try again....(i've been trying for like 3 weeks!) to get the jtag connected. sooo that means no jtag fun for me :( now i have this extra jtag wiggler if anybody needs one (it's for arm7 of course)
10:22:52scorcheheh..why are you too afraid?
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10:23:46 Join dan_a [0] (n=dan-mirc@217.23.173.156)
10:24:26Joelybecause.... my hands shake from my medicine...and then i've tried like 7 times already...so the jtag part looks pretty well beaten up!
10:24:48scorcheah
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10:31:39hcswell, that took about 5 hours too long...
10:31:53hcsbut I now have a windows binary of itdb2tc
10:32:17SkylyMy h340 died plugged into a PC -_-
10:32:53Skylyas in the battery
10:33:25dan_aWoo! I've got a seems-to-be working Sansa NAND driver :D
10:33:58JdGordonwd dan_a
10:34:03JdGordonand hcs
10:34:07JdGordonand Skyly :D
10:34:43Joelythat's awesome dan_a!
10:35:07scorcheindeed
10:35:14*scorche claps
10:35:21Skylywhat's a Sansa NAND driver do
10:35:31Joelythat's the flash....
10:35:32dan_aIt's read only at the moment, and very ugly, so it'll be a little while before it's committed. And, of course, MrH did the hard work!
10:36:02*JdGordon wonders why MrH's help is acceptable, but gl.tters isnt
10:36:11dan_aSkyly: It means we can read what the disk. Very useful
10:36:48dan_aJdGordon: Who is gl.tter?
10:37:20JdGordonsome guy who had some nice patches, but was never accepted because he wanted to stay anonymous
10:38:09dan_aMrH isn't contributing code, so I guess that is the difference.
10:38:14hcsclearly his full name is Mr H, like Mister T
10:38:21JdGordonhah
10:38:31scorchei dont know why...it could be because dan_a is making the actual patches and MrH is only guiding and helping (from what i hear)
10:38:31JdGordondan_a: could be
10:38:49*scorche notices dan_a's previous message
10:38:57*scorche snaps his fingers
10:39:36Joelyhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_wall#Computer_science
10:39:49Joelymost likely
10:40:43Joelyohh i'm so happy there will be NAND support!
10:40:51 Part hcs
10:41:42amiconndan_a: Iirc the Sansa flash uses SD protocol, but a proprietary extension for supporting >4GB (instead of the newer standard)?
10:42:48dan_aamiconn: That is correct. If you need to access above 4Gb, you need to do some kind of bank switch.
10:43:04*amiconn wonders how much of the functionality is shared between Sansa flash and Ondio MMC
10:43:13amiconnYes, that's what I mean
10:43:28amiconnMaybe it's because there are 2 flash chips in the >4GB models?
10:44:40dan_aPossibly, or possibly the SD-flash bridge was designed before the standard was finished. I don't know yet.
10:45:24dan_aThere isn't much shared between the Sansa and the Ondio, but now I've got it working I'm going to re-write the Sansa driver to be as similar as possible to the Ondio one.
10:47:25JdGordonhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6117750.stm <- the last sentance there is funny :D
10:48:05dan_aLOL
10:48:16scorchehehe
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11:01:19markunSkyly: if it's only the battery than you can replace it
11:03:53amiconndan_a: I don't think it's necessary, I just wondered because SD and MMC are very similar
11:03:54markunSkyly: so you can still boot it with the charget connected?
11:04:21amiconnThe ata_mmc code is rather sh1-centric
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11:28:05*JdGordon wonders who is the best person to flash fs#6289 in front of
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12:07:47webguest59hello, i am facing a problem with my H10 20GB but i couldn't find it in the bug list
12:08:23JdGordon... well... enlighten us.... whats the bug
12:08:52webguest59when i enable the equalizer, playback starts having gaps
12:09:22JdGordonprobably a known issue... the code isnt optimized enough
12:09:29JdGordondoes the wps have the peakmeters?
12:09:55webguest59no! oddly enough i turned them off because they caused the same problem!
12:10:18JdGordonyeah, it just means the code needs more optimization
12:10:34webguest59so, what do I do? wait?
12:10:52JdGordonpretty much
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12:11:22webguest59older daily builds didn't do that. sould I drop back to one of these? would you advise that?
12:12:21JdGordonhow long ago did this start to happen?
12:12:33webguest59um.. mustbe 3 days
12:12:42JdGordonwhat audio format is it? all ? mp3?
12:13:02webguest59i tried it with mp3, ogg and flac
12:13:18webguest59flac though didn't have aproblem
12:14:10JdGordondoes the nov 2nd build work?
12:14:45JdGordonthere doesnt look like much has changed in the last 3 days for the h10 and playback
12:14:46webguest59i think not
12:15:43JdGordonif they are available, you should try the builds from nov 1 and 2
12:16:29webguest59well i'm pretty sure the oct 28,29 worked fine because they were the first ones i used. but is it a good idea to go sooo back?
12:16:55JdGordonthe reason i suggest those two builds is so we can figue out what change broke it....
12:17:11webguest59oh ok
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12:18:13JdGordonthere has only been about 5 changes to possibly related code since the 28th... so if you can try each build and let us know when it starts workgin again, we might be able to fix it
12:18:45webguest59ok i'm on it
12:18:51JdGordon:)
12:20:27nlsTrying to set up my ubuntu installation and have a linux-noob question, the rockboxdev script wants write access to /usr/something.. how do I give it that?
12:21:10JdGordonnls: try running it as root or with sudo
12:21:23JdGordonso $ sudo rockboxdev.sh
12:21:28nlssmacks forehead...
12:21:46nlsthx
12:21:50JdGordonnp
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12:23:26markunover 2000 rockbox users on rasher's page!
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12:28:03SoapI need a core duo and broadband connection to see that page.
12:28:27Soapmy 2ghz athalon chokes on it.
12:28:36Paul_the_NerdWhich page?
12:29:41aliaskRasher's rockbox people locator
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12:30:08n1syay it works!
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12:30:41Paul_the_Nerdaliask: Ah, yeah on my prior laptop I'd get the "A script in this page is taking too long" 2 or 3 times
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12:30:52Paul_the_NerdThough oddly enough, I had no problem on this one, despite watching a video at the same time.
12:31:03aliaskYep... I guess the google maps API starts choking with so many entries
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12:31:50ghosthello, i have a strange problem on my ipod mini: i run the setup with RIX, and it says "ipod not found, sysinfo file does not exist". But it does exist, it's even freshly formatted!?
12:32:19Paul_the_Nerdghost: Talk to the writers of RIX. That's not our software
12:32:39webguest59well oddly enough i went back to oct 25 build and it still doesn't work. I'm starting to suspect that the wps is indeed the problem... although it has no peakmeters
12:33:00ghostis it complicated to install rockbox with boot loader without rix? just so i could try that
12:33:02JdGordonwebguest59: or it could be the file...
12:33:20n1swebguest59: tried resetting settings?
12:33:28Paul_the_Nerdghost: I don't consider it complicated, you might. I suggest reading the instructions and deciding for yourself.
12:33:32KasperleJdGordon, n1s: the cleaner solution would've been to point the rockboxdev.sh script to some other location, IMO
12:33:40webguest59yes I did
12:34:12n1sKasperle: well it works now so I'm happy.
12:34:21JdGordonKasperle: well.. depends if you want the toolchain to be installed for the system or just the user... i like system..
12:34:35webguest59still the gaps only happen when i enable the equalizer!
12:34:38n1sdarn didn't have make installed....
12:35:20Paul_the_Nerdwebguest59: The equalizer is very cpu intensive...
12:35:42Paul_the_NerdThat's why we actually recommend disabling it in several of the FAQs if you're getting gaps/skipping.
12:36:20webguest59well, I stuck my ear to the player and noticed this: the sound plays and the disk spins. then the disk stops for a while and the sound plays normally. then a gap occurs and the disk starts spinning again..
12:36:34webguest59so i guess it has to do with the cpu
12:36:53n1syes disk reading is pretty heavy for the cpu
12:37:04webguest59pitty...
12:37:20Paul_the_NerdThe disk should only spin once every several minutes, at the most...
12:37:42webguest59really? well in this case it spins once every few seconds!
12:37:49KasperleJdGordon: true, it's not too bad with the toolchain, because it puts everything into a single arm-elf directory, so it's easy to "deinstall" it
12:37:51Paul_the_NerdAre you sure the disk is spinning.
12:37:55Paul_the_NerdIs the drive access indicator showing?
12:38:23 Quit ghost ("Chatzilla 0.9.75 [Firefox 1.5.0.7/2006090918]")
12:38:40webguest59no but i can hear it
12:38:48Paul_the_NerdYou can hear a noise.
12:39:03webguest59yes, the typical noise a hard drive makes
12:39:21webguest59like the noise it does when i browse through my files
12:39:30Paul_the_NerdDoes the disk access indicator show then?
12:39:34n1samiconn around?
12:39:37webguest59nope
12:39:43JdGordonwebguest59: go into menu > info > ebug > audio thread and watch the bottom bar when the audio pauses... does it ever get full?
12:39:46Paul_the_NerdDo you know where it shows and what it looks like?
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12:40:05webguest59top right?
12:40:17Paul_the_NerdDoes it ever show for you?
12:40:57Paul_the_NerdAlso, JdGordon's suggestion is a good next step.
12:41:26webguest59no the bottom bar does never get full during a pause
12:41:52Paul_the_NerdThen it's not buffering.
12:42:11JdGordonwebguest59: does the bottom bar fll up at all?
12:42:14Paul_the_NerdWell, wait, do you mean "it never fills up most of the way" or "it never reaches the top?"
12:42:27webguest59it never reaches the top
12:42:38Paul_the_NerdSo it does try to fill up?
12:42:44Paul_the_NerdHow often does the bottom bar start increasing?
12:43:21JdGordonwebguest59: about what percentage is the highest it goes? i may have a patch that you can try to fix this
12:43:31webguest59seldom. it goes up to a limit and then stays there
12:44:00JdGordonwebguest59: can u test a build ill do for u?
12:44:00webguest59well i notice that the limit depends on the song i play
12:44:55webguest59how do i exit audio thread??
12:45:01JdGordonoff?
12:45:08Paul_the_NerdHow often does the bottom bar start increasing?
12:45:18Paul_the_NerdOr was that the "seldom"?
12:45:25webguest59it was the seldom
12:45:44Paul_the_NerdIt should slowly go down over time, then increase to nearly full, then decrease over a period... etc.
12:45:48Paul_the_NerdThat's 'normal' behaviour
12:45:55webguest59wow! nooo way!
12:46:13JdGordonwebguest59: careful... sarcasm gets you ignored...
12:46:26JdGordongot an email addy? if u can test a build?
12:46:36webguest59no, i mean that it never does that
12:46:45 Quit JoeBorn ("going home be back online in a couple hours")
12:46:47Paul_the_NerdIt sounds like the watermark's way too high for some reason.
12:47:11Bagderdan_a: amazing work on the nand driver!
12:47:11webguest59when the eq is off it works just as you describe!
12:47:32JdGordonwebguest59: gimme your email... :'(
12:47:41Paul_the_NerdJdGordon: Do you know why enabling the EQ causes this?
12:48:06webguest59well it's a hotmail address, hope you can send: trayvyz@hotmail.com
12:48:20webguest59no, frankly i have no idea.
12:48:22JdGordonPaul_the_Nerd: i assume the cpu cant keep up with both tasks... but if the disk tries spinning down while the buffer is between low and 70% then my patch could solve it
12:48:46webguest59is your build recent?
12:48:53JdGordonbrand new
12:49:16webguest59well, really thanks for your effort!
12:49:31JdGordonha, if this works i should be thanking you.... ok its sent
12:49:43JdGordonmeans ill commit the damn patch if ti solves this
12:50:49webguest59um.. where exactly do i place this/
12:51:04webguest59in the root dir?
12:51:07JdGordonyes
12:51:12webguest59and replace the old one?
12:51:14JdGordonoverright the current rockbox.h10
12:53:34webguest59um.. well..
12:53:55webguest59sorry to disappoint you but it doesn't work..
12:53:56JdGordonmake sure u reboot if u went into usb while it was on
12:54:04webguest59oh
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12:55:36webguest59still doesn't work.. guess i'll have to forget about eq on my model!
12:55:50JdGordoncan u go back intot he aduio thread screen
12:55:56JdGordondoes the bottom bar fill up more often?
12:56:03webguest59eq on or off?
12:56:08JdGordonon
12:56:55Paul_the_Nerdwebguest59: If you do, it's just a "for now" thing. The H10 has the same problems as the iPod in regard to EQ, and the problem can still be solved eventually either way.
12:57:15webguest59i;m on the screen. now?
12:57:35 Join amiconn [0] (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn)
12:57:42JdGordonwatch the bottom bar, does it fill up before getting really low? or has nothing changed?
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12:58:16webguest59nothing has changed. though, the gaps occur when the top bar empties
12:58:25JdGordonok, damn
12:58:45webguest59emptying is faster when there is light on my LCD
12:58:46JdGordonthat would have been nice if it fixed it :p
12:59:40webguest59thanks though for your effort
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12:59:56webguest59have you located what the problem might be?
13:00
13:00:13JdGordonus wantingg too much from the cpu
13:00:22webguest59oh!
13:00:42webguest59well it's strange because the original firmware had eq and srs too
13:00:51Paul_the_NerdThe original firmware could use the coprocessor
13:00:59Bagderand everything else
13:01:07webguest59rockbox can't?
13:01:07Bagdersince they have the docs
13:01:10Paul_the_NerdYep
13:01:19webguest59oh.. that's bad
13:01:21JdGordonrockbox cant.. yet...
13:01:31Bagderwebguest59: the PP chips are complicated beasts and totally undocumented for us
13:01:45webguest59wow, guess what will happen when it will
13:02:52webguest59how come are the pp chips undocumented? i thought that each chip has it's documentations, given by the company that makes it
13:03:01Bagderthey don't reveal the docs
13:03:08SoulDeaDwebguest59 i didnt read the conversation, whats the problem, pauses when playing?
13:03:33webguest59pauses when playing and the equalizer is on
13:03:39Paul_the_NerdPortalPlayer never even responded when I attempted to contact them regarding documentation. Not even a polite refusal.
13:03:41Bagderwebguest59: the soc companies these days seem to be less and less likely to show docs to people without NDAs being signed first
13:03:54merbananBagder: is the bootloader in the PP based players still mapped in memory after boot ? ( with TEA keys and all)
13:03:59SoulDeaDand when the eq is off everything is allrighjt?
13:04:01Bagdermerbanan: yes
13:04:05webguest59yea
13:04:07webguest59yes
13:04:08SoulDeaDaham
13:04:17SoulDeaDwhats the player
13:04:24Bagdermerbanan: at 0x10600000 according to MrH
13:04:29webguest59an H10 20GB iriver
13:04:33SoulDeaDahym
13:04:46Bagderon the sansa, that is
13:04:53SoulDeaDdoes the iriver have cpu frequency control and does rockbox control it?
13:05:07BagderSoulDeaD: yes and yes
13:05:39SoulDeaDBagder could the problem be incorrect behavior of the freq kontrol?
13:05:44SoulDeaDcontrol
13:05:46merbananBagder: handy :) so then it should be quite possible to actually boot the original MI4 image from within rockbox
13:05:49SoulDeaDsorry for my bad english
13:05:53BagderSoulDeaD: what problem?
13:05:59JdGordonwebguest59: if you dont care about battery life there is another possible fix
13:06:07SoulDeaDwebguest59s problem
13:06:14SoulDeaDpauses when playing and eq is on
13:06:40Bagdermerbanan: yes, but I doubt we'll do it like that since it seems awkward to spare the ram area like that
13:06:40webguest59well, i do care about battery life. i just want to have a normal mp3 player like everyone else
13:07:04BagderSoulDeaD: no, the reason is not likely to be cpu freq related I'd say
13:07:11SoulDeaDok
13:07:32SoulDeaDi just tried to suggest something :)
13:07:36merbananBagder: well you only need to save away the keys before using the ram
13:07:44Bagdermerbanan: ah, right
13:08:13Bagdermerbanan: but I think just doing a prescan once for the key is fine enough
13:08:47webguest59hm, so i guess i'll wait for later builds till i can use the eq, right?
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13:10:04SoulDeaDi think so
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13:13:39webguest59thanks a lot for your time everybody! you've been so helpful. i hope every chat-help room was like this! if i have anymore questions i'll come back
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13:21:54Kasperlealright. rockbox sorta running on my 30GB 5.5g iPod.
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13:28:14*amiconn wonders whether it'd be possible to have some kind of visual 'cvs diff'
13:28:44amiconnI would like something that displays the diff like viewcvs does, before committing stuff
13:28:51Kasperleamiconn: on what OS?
13:28:56amiconnwinxp
13:29:42JdGordonthere is a nice kde app which does that... go code one for xp if you really want one :D
13:29:45Kasperlehmmm. tried tortoisecvs and/or tkcvs? I'm not sure, they might provide such a feature
13:30:10amiconnThat tortoise stuff is too much integrated with explorer for my taste
13:30:42SoulDeaDi think wincvs provides this option, but i am currently running linux and cannot check it
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13:33:06Kasperleis rockbox supposed to switch the ipod to disk mode instantly, when you connect the iPod to the PC?
13:33:17JdGordonamiconn: http://www.prestosoft.com/ps.asp?page=edp_examdiff maybe?
13:33:24Paul_the_NerdKasperle: Nearly instantly, yes.
13:34:12Kasperlecan that behaviour be changed through the settings menu? i just want to charge it
13:34:30Paul_the_NerdJust hold Menu while inserting the cable
13:34:53SoulDeaDbut you should know it charges slowly then
13:34:59Kasperlecool, thanks
13:35:08Paul_the_NerdIt may not even charge, depending on how much power you're using.
13:35:37Paul_the_NerdIt may just drain more slowly.
13:36:36amiconnJdGordon: That works locally... I guess the only ways are either using one of the graphical cvs clients, or using file comparison in conjunction with 2 working copies
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13:43:56n1sARG! rockboxdev.sh keeps telling me to sett CC to point to a working compiler, but I did :-(
13:45:05Kasperlecan you paste the exact error message to http://pastebin.ca?
13:45:54n1shttp://pastebin.ca/239653
13:48:18Kasperlewhat does echo $CC output?
13:48:56n1s /usr/lib/gcc-snapshot/bin
13:49:00 Quit aliask ("Chatzilla 0.9.75 [Firefox 2.0/2006101023]")
13:49:23n1sI set it to that because gcc lives there
13:49:31Kasperlewell, it should point to a gcc binary
13:49:35Kasperlenot a path
13:49:49Kasperlewhy does it live in such an odd path btw?
13:50:59n1sDunno I just installed it, and chose the snapshot because the older gcc versions had a bug that prevented building m68k-elf cross compiler on amd64 bit systems (wich I have)
13:51:13 Quit _jhMikeS_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
13:51:41Kasperlewell, unset your CC variable and add /usr/lib/gcc-snapshot/bin to your $PATH, then try again
13:53:14blue_lizardhello all
13:53:20n1sstill no go :(
13:53:59blue_lizardmy code probably updates the code to often
13:54:06Kasperleis there even a "cc" in /usr/lib/gcc-snapshot/bin ?
13:54:15blue_lizardto avoid that i need a counter or an timer i can read
13:54:30n1sno... there is a ggc tohough... that's bad ?
13:54:37blue_lizardto be shure that i update the screen only every 1/3 second
13:54:42Kasperlemaybe the rockboxdev.sh sets CC? try editing it, and setting CC to gcc
13:55:21blue_lizardis such an timer or counter easily accesible in rockbox?
13:57:48Bagderrockboxdev.sh doesn't complain about CC, that would be one of the configure scripts or something
13:58:00Bagderblue_lizard: there's a tick counter you can use
13:58:09BagderHZ ticks per second
13:59:23blue_lizardBagder: sounds good
14:00
14:03:09n1samiconn: is the gcc patch for the natice gcc or the cross gcc (on amd64)?
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14:11:40amiconnn1s: YOu mean gcc-3.4.6-amd64-subst.patch ?
14:11:58n1syeah, it's for the cross compiler right?
14:12:07amiconnyes
14:12:12n1sthanks
14:12:42amiconnI don't know how rockboxdev.sh handles that; I didn't use it yet
14:12:50amiconnAlways built my crosscompilers manually
14:13:02n1sI think it auto patches.
14:13:46amiconnThe amd64 bug might be fixed in the gcc cvs trunk
14:13:51n1sYES! it works!
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14:15:17webguest53hello\
14:15:23n1shello
14:15:32webguest53can i get help with my ipod here?
14:15:39n1smaybe...
14:15:49Soapnot if you don't ask the question ;)
14:15:50webguest53ok
14:15:53webguest53lol
14:15:58webguest53well i juts installed rockbox
14:16:05webguest53and it dosn't load past the opening screen
14:16:08webguest53it just says rockbox
14:16:13webguest53and never goes any further
14:16:19n1swhat kind of ipod?
14:16:25webguest53ipod photo
14:16:29SoulDeaDwhat version did you install
14:16:38webguest53i installed the latest build
14:16:50SoulDeaDyesterday i synced to cvs version and build it, there was the same issue
14:16:52SoapA- did you install it from the command line following the manual/wiki or use one of the unofficial installers?
14:17:03webguest53i did it from command line
14:17:11blue_lizardBagder: did you mean the global variable current_tick?
14:17:39SoapB-not to as an insulting question, but did you unzip your chosen build to the root of your player, or only intstall the bootloader?
14:17:44Soap*not to ask
14:17:49webguest53yes i did that
14:18:05webguest53both
14:18:08webguest53i did both lol
14:18:21n1sdid you safely remove it before disconnecting usb?
14:18:26 Part Paul_the_Nerd
14:18:26webguest53yes i did
14:19:08webguest53do u know if anything that i can do?
14:19:08n1sCan you get it into diskmode and re copy rockbox to it
14:19:28webguest53how do i load into disk mode not in apples firmware?
14:19:39amiconnIn what way does it say "rockbox"?
14:19:43*amiconn has a suspicion
14:19:50webguest53on a yellow banner across the top
14:20:10amiconnAnd what happens afterwards?
14:20:17webguest53nothing it jsut sits there
14:20:20amiconn(my suspicion was incorrect)
14:20:24amiconnFor how long?
14:20:25webguest53lol
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14:20:35webguest53forever so far lol it hasn't changed to anything
14:20:36SoulDeaDhave somebody crashed the original firmware of ipod nano?
14:20:51amiconnHmm, that's odd...
14:21:25webguest53on the bottom it says cvs-06115 if that means anything
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14:22:26webguest53is there a way for me to boot into applesfirmware?
14:23:53webguest53?
14:24:00webguest53or is there anything i can do?
14:24:22SoulDeaDyou should reboot your ipod and hold menu while booting
14:24:29Soapwebguest53 - A-Read the manual. B-reboot and hold menu while booting.
14:24:33Soapjynx
14:25:46webguest53what do u think went wrong then because i am really interested in using this i have been using ipodlinux but am interested in using this because it seems more stable andusable to me
14:26:47SoapI honestly don't know what went wrong.
14:27:01amiconnlinuxstb: are you around?
14:27:17amiconnMaybe there's a problem with the daily for the photo
14:27:32webguest53ok ill try to uninstall and reinstall rockbox intirely and see if it happens again
14:27:39webguest53do u have a recommended build i should use?
14:27:40Soapyea, try an older daily build.
14:27:59webguest53just any older build?
14:28:16Soapno need to do more than delete the rockbox.ipod file and the .rockbox folder and extract a different build.
14:28:31Soapyea go back a day or two and see what happens.
14:29:02webguest53ok
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14:42:42 Join ghost [0] (n=chatzill@217-162-153-112.dclient.hispeed.ch)
14:43:07ghosthello, does rockbox for ipod 5g support album art in JPG? or better album art in the mp3 tag itself?
14:43:15n1sno
14:43:28ghostno- not now or maybe soon?
14:44:22ghosti have a lot of music with the cover IN the mp3 itself...
14:44:22n1sthere's a patch that supports bmp coverart. And that might get commited someday but afaik no jpeg or embedded.
14:44:53ghosti hope that jpg will be implemented soon then - thanks
14:48:31n1sArgh! now it complains about m68k-elf-ar not being found but it's in the frigging path.
14:48:36 Quit ghost ("Chatzilla 0.9.75 [Firefox 1.5.0.7/2006090918]")
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15:00
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15:04:34webguest53ok i installed another build
15:04:46webguest53and there is no way to play music and themes wont change
15:05:52 Quit NickDe (Remote closed the connection)
15:06:07webguest53can u help me with that?
15:07:43webguest53s no?
15:07:53webguest53yes no?*
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15:08:13blue_lizardi really dont know how thing run on ipod
15:08:47blue_lizardbut for iriver h300 series there is an forum that provides rockbox builds that are absolutely known to work
15:09:02webguest53well i don't have an iriver
15:09:04webguest53lol
15:09:08blue_lizardmaybe such thing is existing for ipods too
15:09:33blue_lizardwell i have seen that you dont have an h300
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15:11:34Soapwebguest53 - What do you mean there is no way to play music?
15:11:47Soapforward and back go up and down the directory tree.
15:12:00Soapcenter button (select) selects/plays a track
15:12:07Soapmenu takes you in and out of the menu
15:12:25Soapplay takes you to the WPS from the file tree, and plays/pauses when in the WPS.
15:12:45SoapI suspect you are trying to use play as select instead of the center button.
15:13:20Soapyou /really/ need to read the manual, or at least provide more details with the issues you are having.
15:13:56blue_lizardmanual reading? pah, who needs such silly things
15:14:35SoulDeaD:P
15:15:25SoulDeaDexplaining to everybody? pah, who do such silly things?
15:15:32SoulDeaD:)
15:16:09*amiconn agrees with Soap and disagrees with blue_lizard
15:17:09blue_lizardi see, beeing sarcastic is not understood in this channel
15:17:31amiconnNot always ;)
15:17:37SoulDeaDblue_lizard i understood you, i just was sarcastic too
15:17:40SoulDeaD:P
15:18:21 Part webguest53
15:18:26Soapdang it
15:18:35SoapI'd really like to know if he got it working.
15:18:40 Join webguest52 [0] (i=44efd3c8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/session)
15:18:47webguest52how do i uninstall rockbox
15:19:20SoulDeaDdint it work for you?
15:19:29webguest52?
15:19:41Soapdid you see my lines on playing music webguest52 (ex webguest53 I assume?)
15:19:51LearNo BIGSTEP actions actually used in any keymaps...
15:20:02SoulDeaDyou want to uninstall it because it didnt work for you i guess
15:20:15webguest52no i didn't but i think im gunna go back to linux
15:20:47SoulDeaDaham
15:21:06webguest52?
15:21:44SoulDeaDdid you keep a copy of bootpatition.bin?
15:21:58SoulDeaDofff
15:22:10SoulDeaDits for the nano, sorry
15:22:18SoulDeaDi am not familiar with any other player
15:22:23SoulDeaDwhat was yours?
15:22:32webguest52ipod photo
15:22:45webguest52i have a copy of bootpartition.bin
15:22:57SoulDeaDoki, let mi check what was the command
15:23:32SoulDeaDthe last step of the manual - ipodpatcher -w N rockboot.bin
15:23:44SoulDeaDreplace rockboot.bin with bootpartition.bin
15:23:53webguest52just type that but replace n with the ipod number right?
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15:23:56SoulDeaDbut let somebody confirm it
15:24:02webguest52ok
15:24:03SoulDeaDbecause i havent done it before
15:24:11Soapyes
15:24:14blue_lizardanybody can hint me how to use the rockbox tick counter?
15:24:35Soap-w for write, -r for read.
15:25:06SoulDeaDand rockboot.bin for rockbox, bootpartition.bin for original firmware
15:25:39 Quit myzar ("changing servers")
15:26:55webguest52if i type that in command it will uninstall rockbox?
15:27:40oboblue_lizard: depends what you want to do - http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/RockboxKernel#Tick_helper_functions may give you some hints
15:27:46SoulDeaDit will restore the original bootloader
15:28:08webguest52does that mean it uninstalls rockbox?
15:28:09SoulDeaDthen you may remove rockbox.ipod file and .rockbox directory
15:28:28blue_lizardobo: i want to write to the screen but not too often
15:28:31webguest52ooooooo ok ty very much
15:28:34SoulDeaDthis means you go back to the point before installing rockbox
15:28:34blue_lizardonly 3 times a second
15:28:43Soapit uninstalls the bootloader, you need to manually remove the other files as said by SoulDeaD as my slow typing was tring to finish this.
15:29:00SoulDeaDwebguest52 np
15:29:03webguest52srry for bothering you it's just not for me i guess
15:29:13SoulDeaDwellcome back when you deside to install rockbox again :P
15:29:24webguest52ok lol thx
15:29:26webguest52 bye
15:29:30SoulDeaDbye
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15:33:04 Join San [0] (n=Wonderbo@194.125.97.17)
15:34:47SanIn the daily builds section you can download a build for "iPod Video", Does support all the iPod Videos? Or just 30gb - 60gb?
15:35:09 Quit Lear ("Chatzilla 0.9.75 [Firefox 2.0/2006101023]")
15:35:17lex_San: just 5Gs, 30 and 60
15:35:22lex_not the new 30 yet
15:35:26Soapit states many places, including the front page, that the so-called 5.5g is not supported.
15:35:38Sanok, thanks
15:35:46Soapthe late 2006 models, or whatever you want to call them.
15:36:05Sanhow is progress making on the 5.5?
15:37:46lex_it works on 30gig versions
15:38:03lex_like on mine
15:38:59 Quit psiborg ("leaving")
15:39:23Sanok, thanks
15:39:38lex_it works with a patched build
15:40:16Sanso 80gb support in the near future hopefully
15:40:35lex_yep
15:41:07 Quit Ribs (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
15:41:26Sanits just that I am stuck between buying an 80gb and a 60gb iPod... And i live by rockbox almost. I loved it on my H300
15:41:56SanI think I should just wait for the 5.5 support and get the extra 20GB space
15:42:03 Nick Skyly is now known as Deef (n=sdf@210-84-17-80.dyn.iinet.net.au)
15:42:51lex_yep
15:42:58DeefI'm kind of having trouble seeing how Rockbox greatly outweighs the iriver system
15:43:36DeefToday the battery went flat while it was hooked up to a PC.. things like that
15:43:38SanWell, I can tell you why I prefared it.
15:43:38blue_lizardisnt it possible to clipple the 80GB down to 45GB for some time or such?
15:43:47DeefTell me why heh
15:43:56*Deef sings Supermode - Tell Me Why
15:44:27SanI used to use the record feature on the iRiver alot, and the rockbox recording is perfect, with wav recording and the clipping meter
15:44:29DeefPerhaps I expected too much from Rockbox
15:44:33Deefah
15:44:35Sanand the codec support
15:44:41Deefwell
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15:45:00Sanalso, if you dont like something with it, you can just change it
15:45:03San:)
15:45:12SanVery customisable
15:45:15DeefWell, yeah, but I'm quite fussy
15:45:19DeefI like things perfect
15:45:30SanRead Misticriver and you will get lots of reasons
15:45:35DeefBut I'm also afraid of spending too much time coding
15:45:52Santhats a good thing.. for the rest of us. ;-)
15:46:12DeefI'm avoiding the urge to pick up programming again just to do every single thing I want to Rockbox
15:46:24DeefAnd I'd never finish
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15:46:47DeefSpeaking of customisable... what about the interface
15:47:00Santhe most customisable
15:47:03Sanand very easy
15:47:04DeefThat's probably the biggest cloud in my mind
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15:47:21DeefLike.. backdrops. Things that make it alot more intuitive about where you are and how to move around
15:47:30lex_rockbox just needs a disk mode and a sleep mode to ipods and it's good
15:47:41*Paul_the_Nerd wonders what backdrops have to do with intuitive controls.
15:47:41DeefIsn't it just stuck with 1 backdrop and 1 WPS wallpaper?
15:47:43lex_and probably the broadcom initialized
15:47:50DeefAlot Paul
15:47:57amiconnHaha, "just" a disk mode
15:47:57Sanhttp://misticriver.net/showthread.php?t=35852&page=8
15:48:17Paul_the_NerdDeef: Care to actually explain?
15:48:38DeefDepends on how you are preparing yourself to receive it
15:48:39lex_amiconn: just just
15:48:42DeefYou seem pretty cynical
15:49:04Soaplex_ - and battery life. and second core working. and the serial interface would be a bonus.
15:49:07DeefIf you only feel cynical I will only get a bad response
15:49:07blue_lizardnow thats a reason to not explain something
15:49:29DeefIf you are interested though, its cool
15:49:29lex_Soap: yep yep
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15:49:37blue_lizardDeef: and you are afraid of bad responses?
15:49:38Paul_the_NerdDeef: I just don't see how backdrops and controls are related. Which is why I've asked you to explain.
15:49:53DeefNot afraid, just not interested
15:49:56Paul_the_NerdI'm assuming you're suggesting they be used to provide some sort of visual feedback as to where the user is.
15:50:08Deefyeah
15:50:11Paul_the_NerdBut that doesn't actually tell a user how to control anything.
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15:50:56DeefThat's like saying a street sign doesn't tell you how to get to the city
15:51:18DeefThe easier it is to understand where you are, the easier it is to visualise the rest of the journey
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15:52:10Paul_the_NerdMost users tend to already know where they are, and just don't know how to get anywhere else.
15:52:29Paul_the_NerdKnowing where you are doesn't tell you what buttons to press, or what menu you can find an object in.
15:52:35DeefThat's very generalised
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15:52:52DeefNor does a street sign give you directions
15:53:05amiconnlex_: Things needed for disk mode (1) find out how the PP usb interface is accessed and work (very difficult since there are no docs available) (2) write a complete usb stack (device side), implementing the mass storage class
15:53:10DeefIntuition isn't about explicit
15:53:11Paul_the_NerdIf I tell you "You are in the city of Fredericksville. Get to the Longtown Cafe" can you, without further information?
15:53:25Deefnope
15:53:33lex_amiconn: i know
15:53:36Paul_the_NerdIf a user sees they're in the main menu, what more information will a backdrop give them?
15:53:39lex_amiconn: but it still just needs the disk mode ;)
15:54:18Paul_the_NerdI'm curious specifically how you see backdrops being integrated into the navigation.
15:54:40DeefI think you're still more cynical than curious
15:54:42 Quit FireFly_ (Client Quit)
15:54:53DeefImagine different branches of navigation simply looking distinguishable
15:55:04DeefJust at a glance
15:55:08Paul_the_NerdWhat branches do you divide the navigation into?
15:55:15lex_hey, a bit offtopic, but i have got a noob mp3-player, which is like the random mp3-players, like s1, but i can't figure out where the firmware lies in there
15:55:23lex_so does anyone know how to get it out or so? :o
15:55:23DeefFor example, if I'm looking at my list of playlists..
15:55:32lex_there is only 1 partition, and it's the fat-partitio
15:55:32lex_n
15:55:38DeefAm I in the playlist catalogue or the file browser?
15:55:50Soapsame thing
15:55:57Paul_the_NerdDeef: I don't know, what button did you press to get there?
15:56:06Paul_the_NerdDeef: It sounds like you're assuming the user won't pay attention to what they're doing.
15:56:17DeefExactly
15:56:26DeefIntuition isn't about explicit
15:56:48Paul_the_NerdSo, how will the user know it's the playlist catalogue from a background?
15:56:52Paul_the_NerdAre you planning on writing the words on it?
15:57:07Paul_the_NerdWhy not make use of the existing system for displaying the filetree path to show the menu path as well?
15:57:15DeefSimply different backgrounds will be easy to remember next time
15:57:19Paul_the_NerdThat gives the user a much clearer idea of where they are.
15:58:10DeefIf the entire file browser has shades of blue in the background, while the playlist catalogue doesn't, it will be beyond obvious
15:58:21DeefThey will just feel when they are in the place they think they are
15:58:39DeefMenu path is not intuitive enough
15:58:49Paul_the_NerdYes, because it actually *says* where they are.
15:58:49DeefWords are too messy
15:59:04Paul_the_NerdIf the header on the screen says "Playlist Catalogue" they'll know even if they don't know what the backdrops mean
15:59:11Paul_the_NerdWhat happens when they load a theme that doesn't make use of it?
15:59:29Paul_the_NerdWhy not keep it simple?
15:59:44DeefYou're still being cynical. I'm not arguing that I have the best idea possible, nor trying to support everything anyone can do to break my idea
15:59:56DeefI'm saying it would be a good thing
16:00
16:00:23Paul_the_NerdIt doesn't actually tell the user anything other than "you're in a different screen" though.
16:00:27DeefA header with the title would be good, but not more intuitive than graphics
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16:01:01Paul_the_NerdYou're misusing intuitive.
16:01:12Paul_the_NerdIntuitive means that it can be known without observation or reasoning
16:01:15DeefNo, I think you're confusing it
16:01:17Deefwith "clear"
16:01:25Paul_the_NerdIntuitive means that it can be known without observation or reasoning.
16:01:41Paul_the_NerdBy your own definition the user must observe that the backdrop is different in that screen, and reason that said difference is to distinguish it.
16:01:58Deefnow you're misusing observation
16:02:14DeefThat's the whole point, different backgrounds wouldn't have to be ...
16:02:14Paul_the_NerdOh?
16:02:16DeefLook
16:02:19DeefThis is pointless
16:02:27Paul_the_NerdHow did I misuse observation?
16:02:40Paul_the_NerdI agree that backdrops for different screens would be fun.
16:02:47Soaplets not argue semantics.
16:02:56DeefYup
16:03:26DeefBasically, having different backgrounds that gave an easy feel as to where the user was is not a stroke of genius
16:03:29Paul_the_NerdMy point is simply that claiming it's intuitive is not an argument for this feature, since it very clearly isn't, as it's still something a user has to learn exists.
16:03:30SoapWhat are the arguments against different backdrops for the file tree and the menu? The extra lines of code? The fact no one has steped up to do it yet? Something else?
16:04:02DeefI think Paul just said it
16:04:06DeefIn his cynical way
16:04:15DeefGraphics are more intuitive than text...
16:04:16Soapno need to call names either.
16:04:32DeefHis way is cynical
16:04:37Paul_the_NerdSoap: The fact that each extra backdrop image is a significantly sized chunk of audio buffer, possibly as much as 153k/per, that users don't get if the feature is included
16:04:38DeefHe is not showing me respect either you know
16:04:41SoapLet us stop using the word intuitive until we look it up, and stop using cynical as an insult.
16:04:43Paul_the_NerdBecause Rockbox does not have dynamic allocation.
16:05:11Paul_the_NerdSoap: I did look it up. I don't support my semantic arguments without a direct quote from a dictionary.
16:05:37Paul_the_NerdDeef: How is my being critical of your idea in any way disrespectful of you?
16:06:01DeefYour tone
16:06:14DeefBefore we conversed at all, your first address to me
16:06:16Paul_the_NerdDeef: You and your idea are separate things, and just because I think your idea is not right for Rockbox (and actually the technical reasons are the main thing against it, as I said, I think it would be fun, so I was kinda hoping for a sound argument in favour) does not mean I dislike you.
16:06:27SoapI see no disrespect from Paul_the_Nerd, Deef, only a high threshold you must cross, as this has been discussed many times, and you're kinda playing catch-up with the ideas previously discussed.
16:06:27DeefYour tone suggested otherwise
16:06:47SoapThere is no tone in text!
16:06:51DeefI disagree
16:06:53Paul_the_NerdDeef: If you can hear me, I'm mightily impressed, because there was nothing but text coming from my end.
16:06:57Deefand disagree again
16:07:12Paul_the_NerdAnd my first statement was of wondering what images have to do with controls.
16:07:26DeefAnd I'm not hugely excited about a conversation that requires me to argue every single thing I say
16:07:33Paul_the_NerdI can't help how you choose to interpret my statements.
16:07:44DeefIf you're only going to let me stand on the back foot, I won't get anywhere
16:07:54Paul_the_NerdDeef: If you want to suggest a feature that will hurt the battery life of users in a significant way, you will have to defend it mightily
16:08:06Paul_the_NerdAt 153k *per* screen that gets a unique backdrop, your request is in no way small.
16:08:29DeefBut this is not the points you first addressed me with
16:08:33Paul_the_NerdTrue
16:08:40Paul_the_NerdAnd if you read my above statement you'll see why.
16:08:48DeefThere are many above statements
16:08:53Paul_the_NerdI addressed with questions intended to get you to explain the parts of your suggestion I did not see.
16:09:01Paul_the_NerdI was honestly curious what merits your idea had.
16:09:19Paul_the_NerdBecause to me, I could see it as fun, and something I find might be nice to have, but not useful enough by any stretch to warrant what is in fact a *very* large cost.
16:09:24DeefBackdrops add to intuitive feel
16:09:30DeefVery obvious merit
16:09:46Paul_the_NerdA very small merit, even assuming proper use of the word.
16:09:56DeefI think a huge merit
16:10:03Paul_the_NerdYou're wrong though.
16:10:10Paul_the_NerdI know this sound callous
16:10:17Paul_the_NerdAllow me to explain before shouting at me.
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16:10:31Paul_the_NerdAssume for a moment that we add unique backdrops to say, 8 screens total.
16:10:39Paul_the_NerdThis is a little over 1mb of RAM taken for backdrops
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16:10:56Paul_the_NerdThis is a very significant chunk of buffer space for audio
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16:11:18Paul_the_NerdWhich means that this feature, whether used or not, will decrease the battery life of every single Rockbox user on a color screen target by a measurable amount.
16:12:15Paul_the_NerdFor the benefit of changing the "feel" of the software, but not adding actual functionality beyond a simple niceness of distinct screens, screens that can be distinguished in much cheaper ways.
16:12:21Paul_the_NerdEnd explanation.
16:12:31DeefYou haven't said why you think backdrops to not create a more intuitive feel
16:12:46DeefI never mentioned technical limitations
16:12:52DeefYou asked why it would be more intuitive
16:13:04Deef*to=do
16:13:20Paul_the_NerdActually, I never received an explanation as to how it *is* intuitive.
16:13:31DeefFair enough
16:13:51DeefBut that doesn't mean tech specs are on topic
16:13:51Paul_the_NerdLet alone your definition of the word, since it seems to disagree with that in the dictionary, and I can't be expected to know how you personally define it.
16:14:05Paul_the_NerdSo you're saying that the technical argument is irrelevant?
16:14:27DeefTo the question you intially asked, yes. The question I am saying you were being cynical about, yes
16:14:35Paul_the_NerdThe discussion is "Is the idea of enough value to be included" which means a cost vs value analysis of said idea.
16:14:44Paul_the_NerdI knew the cost.
16:14:46Paul_the_NerdYou did not
16:14:56DeefNo, the discussion is not that
16:15:05Paul_the_NerdI was curious as to your personal perceived value of the idea, since initially for me it was very low, so I inquired as to what gave you basis to value it.
16:15:05DeefIt wasn't that until you took it there
16:15:30Paul_the_NerdWhat you're missing is *why* I asked the questions I did, and are judging the discussion based solely on which questions I asked.
16:15:57DeefBut I'm not responding to your reasons for asking questions
16:16:02DeefI'm responding to your questions
16:16:13Paul_the_NerdYes
16:16:19DeefI'm discussing why I think it would make a more intuitive feel
16:16:24Paul_the_NerdSo tell me that.
16:16:29DeefI'm not discussing its worth or viability
16:16:39DeefDo you agree?
16:16:52Paul_the_NerdAre you suggesting this idea for inclusion in any way?
16:17:15DeefSimilar to the way I'd consider marrying a girl I'd just met
16:17:26DeefI'm not thinking about that yet
16:17:40DeefI am simply saying "This would be more intuitive, I wish it were so"
16:17:56Paul_the_NerdAlright, explain how it is more intuitive.
16:17:58DeefAnd then responding to your debateable way of asking "Why do you think that"
16:18:05Paul_the_NerdAnd if you aren't using the definition I pasted her, explain what meaning you use for it.
16:18:07DeefAlright
16:18:12Paul_the_Nerdhere
16:18:43Deefpink background for menu branches, blue for browser branches
16:18:59DeefLooking at a screen full of playlist names, I know where I am
16:19:05Deefwithout thinking about it
16:19:10DeefThat's all it is
16:19:23DeefTitles and branch paths for menus would all be excellent too
16:19:39Paul_the_NerdAny list of files, even when spawned from the menu, is actually a sub-browser.
16:19:44Paul_the_NerdMuch like the plugin list.
16:20:16Paul_the_NerdSo, it wouldn't help much with your playlist plight, unfortunately.
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16:21:11DeefIt would help
16:21:25Paul_the_NerdAny list of playlists would be blue still.
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16:21:51DeefThat is a technical limitation then
16:22:01Paul_the_NerdIt's probably able to be worked around, though.
16:22:26DeefAssuming it was, do you see or not see the improvement it would make to ease of use
16:22:55Paul_the_NerdI never said it wouldn't improve ease of use.
16:23:02Paul_the_NerdI said that it does not make navigation more intuitive.
16:23:50DeefThere aren't many other ways in which colours can aid navigation...
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16:25:06SoulDeaDcolors cannot aid navigation
16:25:12SoulDeaDi dont see green
16:25:29SoulDeaDhave you hear about color deficient vision?
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16:25:47Paul_the_NerdNavigation involves moving, your colour system is beneficial to a user knowing where they are, but does not improve their faculty to navigate, just the possibility that they know their starting point (not always even essential since in Rockbox it's easy to get to a common starting point)
16:25:47Deef?
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16:26:30DeefThis is a very little concept
16:26:41DeefWhich is taking pages for you to either see, or admit you see
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16:26:55DeefApologies if its the former
16:27:20Paul_the_NerdThe problem is that you seem determined to use words for meanings other than their dictionary meaning, and since I cannot read minds, I can't know your intent with them.
16:27:39DeefThat is not the problem
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16:28:29markunSoulDeaD: I also have a problem seeing colours, still they can help
16:28:41Paul_the_NerdSeeing as my whole argument as *not* been against your idea, but that it does what you say it does, yes it is the problem.
16:29:10DeefNo its not
16:29:19SoulDeaDthere are other ways...
16:29:22Paul_the_NerdThen what, pray tell, is the problem?
16:29:32Paul_the_NerdPlease, I've yet to hear *your* definition of intuitive.
16:29:37SoulDeaDicons, blinking rectangles, circles or whatever
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16:29:45DeefAnd I'm not jumping onto the back foot again to argue a point that isn't going to move the subject along
16:29:51Paul_the_NerdSoulDeaD: A header at the top of the screen that simply tells you where you are.
16:30:02DeefYou would have to read the header
16:30:18DeefIn the iriver system, the playlist and file browser both have titles
16:30:18SoulDeaDPaul_the_Nerd i dont argue, i have no problem navigating
16:30:28Paul_the_NerdDeef: The point is you don't seem to know the proper meaning of the word intuitive. Even with your system, a user has to notice that the screens change, and as well notice that the changes actually align to specific screans, an act that takes reasoning, breaking the definition of "Intuitive"
16:30:41Paul_the_NerdSoulDeaD: Well, only the filetree has headers at the moment.
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16:31:22markunDeef: do you know how to program?
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16:31:36DeefYeah
16:31:45mrsnazzIs there a pre-built Julius (jbuild) w/ frequency scaling disabled (for ipod photo...)
16:31:46Paul_the_NerdDeef: I've admitted that I like your idea, I've admitted that I think it would be beneficial to users. My *only* argument against it has been that it is not what you say it is, an increase in intuitive navigability.
16:31:54Paul_the_NerdWhat exactly do you want from me?
16:31:56markunperhaps you should just give your idea a try.
16:32:16DeefI would like you to understand that knowing where you are makes it easier to know how to get to the next place
16:32:17SoulDeaDmarkun good point :P
16:32:25Paul_the_Nerdmrsnazz: Any unsupported builds should be found in the forum.
16:32:38mrsnazzPaul_the_Nerd: thanks...
16:32:56DeefWe are not discussing viability markun
16:33:13markunok
16:33:13Paul_the_NerdDeef: I never actually said that knowing where you are does not make it easier to know how to get anywhere else. My counterexample only showed that further knowledge is still necessary.
16:33:36DeefFurthermore, different colours in different places make it more intuitive to know where you are
16:33:40Paul_the_NerdDeef: Knowing that you're in the menu system still tells you very little, and whether it makes it easier or not, does not make it more *intuitive*
16:33:53Paul_the_NerdDeef: Please, stop and define intuitive if you insist upon using the word here.
16:34:07DeefYou don't think about it
16:34:17Paul_the_NerdI've given you a definition out of a dictionary, and every time you use the word it's clear that your use is contrary to the definition.
16:34:26Deefyour mind only goes "I am in pink" without you consciously noticing
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16:34:35Paul_the_NerdThat's not intuitive.
16:34:47Paul_the_NerdBecause you have to learn what pink means *first*, and then you don't need to think about it after you learn.
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16:36:15DeefHow is that not more intuitive?
16:36:41Paul_the_NerdBecause the very definition of intuitive means that the behaviour does not have to be learned in any way.
16:36:41DeefYes you do have to learn first
16:37:03DeefThen it is you who is misusing the word
16:37:37Paul_the_Nerdintuitive: adj, obtained through intuition rather than from reasoning or observation
16:37:39DeefThis is also a good reason for why I won't get into the semantics debate
16:37:57DeefWhen we discuss things, I need us to not be robots
16:38:13Paul_the_Nerdintuition: n, The act or faculty of knowing or sensing without the use of rational processes;
16:38:18Paul_the_NerdTherefor, NOT LEARNED.
16:38:21DeefIf we converse by interpreting via dictionaries, we can not discuss well
16:38:33Paul_the_NerdActually, if we discuss by speaking the same language, we can
16:38:43DeefBut we can't if you live off a dictionary
16:38:45Paul_the_NerdBut clearly you seem to want to use non-English definitions of words which makes it quite difficult.
16:38:55markunPaul_the_Nerd, Deef: Can't you discuss this in private?
16:39:01Paul_the_NerdWhat am I supposed to do? Guess what words mean, rather than using what the English language tells me the words mean?
16:39:08*Paul_the_Nerd drops it.
16:39:10Paul_the_NerdI'm done. :)
16:39:26*jhMikeS thought he was the king of semantics according to preglow :)
16:39:38Paul_the_Nerdmarkun: I apologize for wasting the space.
16:39:40DeefYou're supposed to consider the meanings it might have, open your mind to what idea I might be trying to transmit
16:39:45DeefNot look up a dictionary
16:39:58Paul_the_NerdjhMikeS: I just find it very frustrating when people seem to think I ought to *guess* what words mean, and somehow I'm wrong for expecting words to mean what they *actually* do. :)
16:39:59jhMikeStransmitting ideas? a new rb function?
16:40:19DeefIf we use the dictionary definition, intuitive can not be done
16:40:34markunDeef: just PM Paul_the_Nerd
16:40:47DeefWell, it was his question
16:40:58DeefI imagine he's not so interested anymore heh
16:41:03markunno :)
16:41:20jhMikeSthat's right, you don't want me interjecting senseless crud :)
16:45:50DeefWell, I will go back to my initial problem then
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16:46:30DeefIgnoring different backgrounds, what customisation options are there that can make navigation easier?
16:47:09Paul_the_NerdAt the moment, the only two are enabling the scrollbar (which is on by default) and icons for files (differentiates them clearly from menus) again on by default.
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16:48:46DeefIs there likely to be more options?
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16:48:56DeefAnything coming up you might know about?
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16:49:50Paul_the_NerdDeef: Most of the development focus is on functionality, nobody who's expressed interest in improving the interface has actually done anything about it.
16:50:03Deefgweh
16:50:05markunDeef: they might be in the patch tracker (under "User Interface" I guess)
16:50:32Paul_the_NerdMost time gets spent on getting hardware working, fixing playback bugs, etc.
16:50:59Paul_the_NerdThe menus are clearly navigable. They aren't as easy or quick as they could be, but they're quite far from unusable, so there are a lot of things that are higher priority.
16:51:00DeefFair enough
16:52:05Paul_the_NerdEspecially since Rockbox hasn't been "released" on anything with even a 2-bit screen yet so the current system is pretty much the old system for the Archos releases, just sorta stretched out across newer features and such.
16:52:16Deefheh
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16:52:41DeefI've only had my H340 for a week but the navigation hurts I find
16:53:48Paul_the_NerdI personally have never had a problem with it, honestly.
16:53:49DeefI think out of all the bugs, this is what makes me most undecided about using it
16:54:46Paul_the_NerdWhat about the navigation actually causes you problems?
16:54:46SoapI don't think you will find yourself using the main menu much after a couple of weeks.
16:54:50***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
16:54:52SoapFWIW
16:54:59*amiconn thinks that rockbox navigation is quite intuitive, _especially_ compared to stock iriver firmware
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16:55:33amiconnNot styled to death, but functional
16:57:11Paul_the_NerdThe problem with "intuitive" is that it differs from person to person. Everything did what I expected it to do, pretty much, so it was mostly intuitive for me.
16:58:00Paul_the_NerdBut if Deef's having actual problems with the navigation, I'm curious exactly where they're happening.
16:58:24DeefMainly with playlists I think
16:58:32DeefI've been messing with them all week
16:58:32amiconnjhMikeS: When we can get away with the same transfer timing as on H300, lcd updates with dma would be 6% slower on X5 than the corresponding values on H300
16:58:56DeefI can never tell what I have to press to get back to the WPS
16:59:11Deefor to view the playlist, or something around that area
17:00
17:00:03DeefLike...
17:00:27DeefHold Navi, playlist, view current playlist = tap <−− to reach WPS
17:01:25DeefPress A-B, playlist options, view current player != tap <- to reach WPS
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17:01:48DeefI look at that screen and not know to do
17:02:05Paul_the_NerdWell that would actually qualify as a bug, I think.
17:02:43SoulDeaDi press play to return to wps...
17:02:47DeefWell, the latter cycles you back through the menu
17:03:16DeefSoulDead.. in both examples above, Play does not return to WPS
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17:03:36SoulDeaDsorry, i didnt read them, just a sec
17:04:10DeefIn the second example, tapping left simply cycles you back through the menu
17:04:22Paul_the_NerdIt should in the first as well
17:04:36Deefah
17:04:52Paul_the_NerdLeft should always back you down the menu tree.
17:05:50 Quit Criamos (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
17:05:52DeefIf you hold NAVI, it seems left always goes instantly to the WPS
17:06:07Paul_the_NerdDefinite bug in the context menu then.
17:06:11DeefRighto, cool
17:06:34DeefYeah, can't find a place where left doesn't do that
17:06:37Paul_the_NerdYup, if called from the filetree, left returns you to the tree.
17:07:02 Quit mirak (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
17:07:29 Quit rconan (Client Quit)
17:08:14DeefAnother example is
17:08:58 Quit Rob2222 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
17:09:34*Deef stumbles around the filebrowser
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17:10:42DeefI see that a list of files has icons, and a filepath up the top, while a playlist of those same files has numbers and no file path
17:11:18DeefThat causes me grief, I guess I feel the difference is too small
17:11:30Paul_the_NerdBecause a playlist is a list of files... the numbers show you where in the playlist they are. You aren't in a filetree any more, you're viewing the playlist...
17:11:54amiconnYou can enable the playlist option to display full paths
17:11:59Paul_the_NerdYup
17:12:12DeefI'm saying that I realise they are different
17:12:20DeefBut that I never notice the difference
17:12:35Paul_the_NerdWell it sounded like the complaint was that they aren't the same...
17:12:49DeefSorry heh
17:12:51Paul_the_NerdOr is it that there's not enough difference visible?
17:12:54DeefThat they're too the same
17:12:57Deefyes
17:13:17Paul_the_NerdWhat should probably be up top is the filename of the playlist. "Blah.m3u" or something.
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17:13:36amiconnA playlist doesn't always have a filename
17:13:42Paul_the_Nerd"Dynamic"
17:13:44amiconnDynamic playlists don't
17:13:54amiconn...and that's what I am using, exclusively
17:13:55DeefJust a fat icon somewhere or something would be nice
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17:14:08amiconnA fat icon takes away display space
17:14:17Deefyeah
17:14:19Paul_the_NerdI think the fact that numbered lists are never used in filetree is a strong clue. But that's a matter of preference.
17:14:46Paul_the_NerdThough I guess you could end up with one if you disabled icons and had numbered filenames...
17:14:55DeefIts more that I don't read the text at all
17:14:57DeefI glance
17:15:16Deefand discover I have to think
17:15:22Deefbut try to avoid it anyway heh
17:15:33Deefthen press play and accidentally fire off a new playlist
17:15:58jhMikeSamiconn: nice ;)
17:16:20amiconn?
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17:16:54jhMikeS"a fat icon takes away display space" - just me noticing a pun
17:18:33*amiconn doesn't understand
17:18:51jhMikeSIf the icon is "fat" is should be rather large, no?
17:19:08amiconnYes, and that takes away display space...
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17:19:13 Part Paul_the_Nerd
17:19:36jhMikeSor you mean FAT?
17:19:37*Deef completely fails to remember how to get to the playlist on the iriver firmware
17:20:31*jhMikeS is talking in his sleep again
17:20:43Sanpress the ab button on the main playing screen
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17:21:55DeefA-B loop mode
17:22:23Deefholding it is making the "set" text appear next to "User EQ"
17:22:41Sanyou want to access playlists right?
17:22:48Deefyeah
17:22:50Santry the record button
17:23:02Sanone of thoes buttons does it
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17:23:06Deefyeah
17:23:10Deef... something's changed
17:23:12DeefHad it before
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17:23:19Sanhhhhhm
17:23:28DeefTap record is repeat modes, hold is feature menu
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17:23:56Santap the a-b button
17:24:00Sanwhen no song is playing
17:24:27Deefahhh
17:24:35*jhMikeS wonders why so much in the global_settings structure isn't carefully conditionally compiled like the bit table entries. many members are not needed by everything.
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17:26:32amiconnjhMikeS: global_settings exists for I don't know how long, and back in the archos-only days, Linus said that having less conditionals is better that saving a few bytes
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17:27:21amiconnBut I think global_settings should be ifdefed properly, although it matters less than you might think
17:27:31amiconnglobal_settings is bss data
17:28:09DeefSan, still around?
17:28:37DeefOr anyone know what else I can customise besides fonts, WPS and backdrops?
17:28:39jhMikeSI didn't think it was a critical space issue just like you said, ifdefed properly. Saves something
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17:29:29jhMikeSshould probably be in the same order in both imho
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17:35:31amiconnjhMikeS: There's a pitfall with shuffling global_settings around, btw.
17:35:51amiconnglobal_settings is exported to plugins, so reordering it means an incompatible api change
17:36:16amiconn-> both api version and min api version need to be bumped
17:40:47SoulDeaDi just installed skyeye emulator
17:40:58SoulDeaDi still have not read the documentation
17:41:12jhMikeShmmm, forgot about that. my changes may already make them incompatible then. I didn't add anything to the plugin api but did add add stuff to global_settings that should be sorted.
17:41:12SoulDeaDbut can somebody tell mi could it be useful?
17:43:40jhMikeSrec_format directly replaces rec_quality for SWCODEC but perhaps the encoder settings should just go at the bottom :\
17:44:53amiconnjhMikeS: It's probably not that important (yet). Afaik the only global setting referenced in plugins is the backlight timeout, so as long as that one keeps its position, there shouldn't be a problem
17:45:17amiconnHmm, for hwcodec a couple of sound settings are also referenced, in the wavplay plugin
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17:49:02jhMikeSI'll search it to find out
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17:55:37jhMikeSit's more complicated than that, batter_bench, alpine_cdc and probably many others
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17:57:57casi just installed rockbox on my grayscale ipod 4g, however it just boots the apple firmware directly
17:58:06casany idea what i have done wrong?
17:58:08jhMikeSI'll either bump the version or put it at the end instead of stick it somewhere in the middle, I'll put a note in to avoid the pitfall too
17:58:30 Join Moos [0] (i=51400b8c@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/session)
17:59:28Soapcas - sounds like you didn't install the bootloader.
17:59:33MoosHi there !
17:59:36SoapDo you see the rockbox logo when you boot?
17:59:55casnope
18:00
18:00:07Soapthen your bootloader isn't installed.
18:00:10Soapthough
18:00:14casah, stupid me
18:00:17casfound it
18:00:18Soaphave you rebooted you ipod since installing?
18:00:32casi didnt change sdb to sda on the last command
18:00:47casinstalled the bootloader on the wrong device :/
18:01:04Deeflol
18:01:08MoosjhMikeS: hi, is your big patche coming up? :P
18:01:24SoulDeaDcas which is this wrong device? :)
18:01:34*Deef waits to see cas' mobile boots into Rockbox
18:01:41SoulDeaDa harddrive?
18:03:01casheh, no
18:03:10casnothing there
18:03:12caslucky me
18:03:13cas:>
18:03:21SoulDeaDlucky you :)
18:03:41jhMikeSMoos: yeah, just trimming now irrelevant stuff out
18:04:25amiconnAnyone here who tried doom on (any) ipod, or h10?
18:04:35markunjhMikeS: which patch?
18:04:39markunhi Moos
18:04:41SoulDeaDi played it on ipod nano
18:04:52Mooshello markun
18:05:02Moosmarkun: recording rework
18:05:11amiconnThere is a bug I am observing on ipod mini, but not on iriver or X5: The tranmap is built every time, when it should use a cached version
18:05:37amiconnI would like to know whether this also happens on other little endian targets
18:06:21SoulDeaDhow can i help you?
18:06:58*Moos is wondering if it will see one day how rockboy looks on his X5 :)
18:07:04amiconnJust start doom, and start playing.
18:07:29amiconnWhile it initialises the first time, there is a part in the startup message junk that takes quite a while
18:07:55SoulDeaDsec
18:07:58amiconnIt says: "Please wait: tranmap bulding", then counts down: "Computing: 8", "Computing: 7" etc
18:08:09DeefDoom makes my hands hurt on the h300
18:08:19DeefWho designed such cramped buttons
18:08:29amiconnIt should only do this the first time you start doom, or after removing /games/doom/tranmap.dat
18:08:51amiconnOn my mini it appears everytime
18:08:51SoulDeaDit will take some time becaus i have to copy the files first
18:12:09jhMikeSmarkun: the recording changes
18:12:44SoulDeaDok
18:14:21SoulDeaDuff i messed something
18:14:27caswoo, now it worls fine :)
18:17:30SoulDeaDamiconn ok, now when i select play game the first time tranmap.dat is created
18:17:49SoulDeaDthe goal is to see if the next time its recreated?
18:17:52amiconnYes, that's normal
18:18:21amiconnBut for subsequent starts it shouldn't appear again
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18:18:58SoulDeaDnope, theres no promlem on the nano
18:19:21amiconnSO it doesn't appear a second time?
18:19:43SoulDeaDi think the previous version of rockbox lets say some time around 20th october there was no such problem
18:19:49SoulDeaDit does not
18:20:05amiconnodd
18:20:06SoulDeaDit takes too long time for me to be unnoticed
18:20:42SoulDeaDi use freedoom if its is important
18:20:42amiconnYes it takes quite a while
18:21:18amiconnThe problem isn't new, it has always been like that on my mini since I made doom work on it (by porting the grayscale lib)
18:22:46SoulDeaDthe first time i have started doom i havent noticed this delay but i have started it several times and i would have been noticed it, so i think the problem is somewhere in you port
18:25:08amiconnHuh? Now the problem is gone, after deleting tranmap.dat to force a clean rebuild...
18:25:55amiconnHaha, I know why...
18:26:03SoulDeaD:)
18:26:11amiconnThere _is_ a bug in the tranmap cache code
18:26:44amiconnIf there is no tranmap it gets rebuilt cleanly, but if there is one that's faulty, it gets recalculated but saving doesn't work,
18:26:59amiconnbecause it's opened with O_RDONLY !
18:27:13amiconnsic!
18:28:57*amiconn goes to verify his theory
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18:29:40LearAnyone tried a Cygwin simulator lately? Mine freezes during startup...
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18:33:51LearAh, just a crappy settings sector, it seems.
18:36:16AdamKilii put rockbox on a friends iPod (with permission) and now everyone who sees it wants it! but I have to tell them it's a bit of a technical installation, so keep up the good work on rockbox, and when u make an installer for it I'll tell everyone that it's easy to install now!
18:36:26LearHe, graphical eq doesn't seem to work in the sim...
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18:43:22Gnelikhi all!
18:49:13n1shi
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18:51:00casa recommended theme for a b&w 4g?
18:51:01amiconnLear: Something is clearly wrong with the settings. If I start my mini2g sim with sector3D.bin removed, it works, but if I then just set the language to german, quit the sim and restart, it hangs...
18:51:24*n1s hits gcc with a sledgehammer
18:51:48Gnelikamiconn
18:51:57GnelikI have this
18:52:05n1sAny linux/gcc wizards around with time for helping a linux noobie? :-)
18:52:15Gnelikproblem too after changing language tu russian
18:52:30Gnelikn1s: aks
18:53:00Gnelikask
18:53:20n1sGnelik: well it tells me that m68k-elf-ar is not found when making gcc but it is in the PATH
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18:54:33Gneliktry to run it without arguments
18:54:38Gnelik m68k-elf-ar
18:54:51***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
18:55:14n1sGnelik: that gives me a long list of available switches etc.
18:55:29Gnelikhm
18:56:23GnelikI don''t know
18:56:25Gneliksorry
18:56:34n1snp
18:56:44n1sI'll try to reboot
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18:57:08cas:o
18:57:13casdata abort at ...
18:57:17cas:'(
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19:00
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19:01:41n1smeh no go
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19:02:32cashow do i go back/reboot when it says: data abort at 00... ?
19:02:47n1smenu+select
19:02:48amiconnn1s: I guess somehow m68k-elf-ar isn't in the path for the script, but only for your command line
19:03:04amiconnHow did you add it to the path?
19:03:08n1samiconn, any idea how to fix that
19:03:23casah, it did work, i tried that, but i guess i didnt hold it enough time
19:05:48Joelyhmm has that NAND driver for the sansa been added to cvs yet? hehe i'm impatient :-P
19:06:22n1sPATH=/usr/local/m68k-elf/bin:$PATH
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19:07:11amiconnn1s: Where? In .bashrc ?
19:07:33n1sno in the terminal
19:07:41GnelikJoely: no
19:07:44amiconnAh, same thing
19:07:53GnelikBut it will be there soon
19:08:03Joelystupid question n1s....did you export it?
19:08:06amiconnIf you just set the variable like this, it will only be valid in the current shell, not in subshells
19:08:27amiconnYou need 'export PATH......'
19:08:42n1stried that, didn't help
19:08:46Joelyah ok
19:09:02n1sbut I have to run make with sudo so maybe that's the thing
19:09:05GnelikJoely: look at sansa forum
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19:09:30amiconnn1s: You don't need sudo for 'make', only for 'make install'
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19:10:12n1samiconn if I don't sudo I get permission denied :-(
19:10:29Joelychange the permissions of the files
19:10:45Joelychmod or chown
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19:37:43Gnelikdan_a: sorry for my stupid question but when are you going to add NAND driver to cvs
19:37:54Learamiconn: that could be it, I had a different language set.
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19:40:57dan_aGnelik: When it is written a bit better. I can't say exactly when - I'm very busy this week.
19:44:29Gnelikdan_a: cant you just put curent version to cvs, only to have a look on it???
19:44:42LearAh, the EQ problem was likely because I had a logf-enabled build.
19:45:22SoulDeaDwhat is different when the build is logf enabled?
19:46:35LearRemote is used to display log messages. Screen structure isn't set up properly then (IIRC), so attempts to draw on the remote can cause problems.
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19:47:13amiconnThen something's wrong with the way the eq screen uses the multi-screen api
19:47:32amiconnWith logf, the multi screen api only indicates one screen for irivers
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19:48:14LearCould be. I'm not that familiar with it... But it does need to handle things a bit differently.
19:48:41LearYes, but remote is still available. Gotta check how the widget code handles it...
19:48:41amiconnNot different from targets without a remote
19:49:06amiconnThe remote is only available via the firmware-level lcd api
19:50:28dan_aGnelik: I'd prefer not to, because there is a lot wrong with it, and a lot of my own questions in the comments. I'll PM you with a link, though.
19:51:04LearHm.. Seems like it should check for NB_SCREENS > 1, rather than HAVE_REMOTE_LCD.
19:51:12GnelikOk
19:51:17GnelikThanks.
19:51:22dan_aNo problem
19:51:44amiconnLear: The graphical eq screen checks for HAVE_REMOTE_LCD?
19:51:50amiconnThat's clearly wrong then
19:52:03LearYes. It draws things differently then.
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19:54:36n1sit finally works! :-) (the stupid sudo thing used another PATH blargh!)
20:00
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20:00:10Gnelikdan_a: Great work!!!
20:03:40 Quit secleinteer (Remote closed the connection)
20:03:49dan_aGnelik: Thanks! Like I say, there's still a lot to do, and MrH did the hard part.
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20:09:02Pajama-BWhich firmware should I put on a Korean 100 series for rockbox?
20:09:35n1sa what?
20:09:36Pajama-Bis there a difference between those and the US ones or does it matter?
20:09:47n1siriver h100?
20:09:50Pajama-Byeah
20:10:28n1sshouldn't be any different just make sure to use the right version h100 vs h120/140
20:10:56Pajama-BSomeone told me you couldn't use European firmware on the Korean ones, so I didn't know what that meant because I didn't think there was a difference
20:12:00n1sahh you mean iriver firmware, but that _shouldn't_ matter but don't trust me on that. Howerver if you are going to use rockbox why not stick with korean?
20:12:08Pajama-Bokay
20:12:31Pajama-BJust wasn't sure which one to patch
20:13:07Pajama-BSomeone said there were more features in the Korean one?
20:13:59n1sI don't know about the h100 but that's the deal with the h300 at least, but as i said if you're using rockbox...
20:14:58Gnelikbye
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20:24:22Davide-NYCPajama-B:
20:24:28Pajama-Byep
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20:24:42Davide-NYCPajama-B: the extra features only apply to the us vs. korean firmware for the H3x0 series
20:25:01Davide-NYCI would just use US1.66 for the H120/H140
20:25:22Pajama-BBut i got the 140 from Korea so I wasn't sure if there was a difference
20:25:39Davide-NYCI doubt it.
20:25:41Pajama-Bcuz someone told me that you couldn't use the european firmware on korean irivers
20:25:45n1sDavide-NYC: Not entirely true the h300 eu firmware has a volume cap and limited fm frequency range :-P
20:25:48Pajama-Band I was like huh?
20:26:01Davide-NYCThat sounds very very suspect.
20:26:06Davide-NYCwho told youthat?
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20:26:20Pajama-BMy friend Steve
20:26:21Pajama-Blol
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20:26:39Pajama-BI thought they were made in Korea anyway so...
20:26:47Davide-NYCI have never heard anything of the sort for H120s.
20:27:03Pajama-BNot sure what he meant by that then
20:27:16Davide-NYCIf your preferred language is English and your sighted help does not speak korean, then I would use the US1.66 firmware.
20:27:30 Quit bluey- ("Leaving")
20:27:40Pajama-Bokay
20:28:01Davide-NYCIt really doesn't matter though, since you're gonna be doing the RockBox thing anyways
20:28:23Pajama-BYeah. the only thing I don't know is if it shows up in korean by default, and how I can upgrade
20:28:53Davide-NYCThat's the problem I thought of as awell, should you require assistance they would not be able to read the screen
20:29:09Pajama-Byeah.
20:30:16Pajama-Bi'm not sure if that's how it's showing up. haven't found out yet
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20:37:39*|AhIoRoS| dam i have 2 days drunk :-/ i need stop this now :-)
20:38:05SoulDeaDwhy now?
20:38:41SoulDeaDbecause tomorrow is mondey
20:38:45SoulDeaD?
20:39:00blue_lizardif you stop now you will geht headaches
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20:39:25SoulDeaDcarry on!
20:39:26SoulDeaD:P
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20:43:19blue_lizardit seem we have convinced him
20:43:45n1sbluebrother: around?
20:48:09n1sFebs: any thoughts on why I get a Missing: \begin{document} when building any manual?
20:54:55***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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21:00
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21:01:58tucozn1s: do you run ubuntu edgy by any chance?
21:02:07n1syep
21:02:12tucozthat is the problem
21:02:32n1soh, any way to fix it?
21:02:35tucozyes
21:02:41n1sgood :-)
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21:02:58NHealkornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net
21:02:58NJoindarkless [0] (n=darkless@62.79.44.48.adsl.vby.tiscali.dk)
21:02:58tucoznow, /bin/sh is linked to /bin/dash
21:03:13tucozbut you want it to be /bin/bash instead
21:03:45tucozso, simply make /bin/sh be a symlink to /bin/bash
21:04:06n1sok, how do I do that, (linux noob) :-)
21:04:42tucozi am not sure of the syntax. on windows at the moment. but someone else here will probably know.
21:05:11tucozi think it is sudo ln -s /bin/sh /bin/bash
21:05:29tucozbut use google
21:05:33tucozthat will help you
21:06:03n1sprobably, thanks
21:06:23bluebrotherrm /bin/sh; ln -s /bin/bash /bin/sh
21:06:32bluebrotheras root.
21:06:54tucozi mixed up the order
21:08:09tucozhmm. looks like having /bin/sh linked to /bin/dash makes scripts run a lot faster
21:08:21blue_lizardshure it does
21:08:28blue_lizardbut does that really count?
21:08:43tucozno, not as long as it breaks scripts
21:08:53bluebrotheryou could also try to adjust the shebang to point to /bin/bash instead of /bin/sh
21:09:26tucozyes, that is of course a solution
21:09:41SoulDeaDor you could just edit the script....
21:09:52n1sit works, now :-)
21:09:58tucoznice
21:10:06bluebrotherso the first line of configure reads #!/bin/bash
21:10:41n1syay it only took half a day to get normal build/sim/manual to work :-)
21:11:02 Nick idnar_ is now known as idnar (i=mithrand@unaffiliated/idnar)
21:11:05bluebrothermaybe this is something that should be in cvs ... assuming /bin/sh is bash isn't always true as we see :)
21:11:13blue_lizardisnt there a vmware image out?
21:11:29blue_lizardthat should make the things work within 20 minutes
21:11:53n1syeah but now it works native
21:11:57Kasperleyeah, it would rock if people would stop assuming /bin/sh to be bash everywhere
21:12:11tucozbluebrother: i agree. if we expect it to be bash, then we might as well force it to be bash.
21:12:20blue_lizardn1s: noit does not
21:12:30n1s?
21:12:31blue_lizardit is a crosscompiler
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21:13:05blue_lizardgod less gcc
21:13:07n1syeah but the cross compiler is native to the os and not to an os on an emulator
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21:14:26n1sand generating manuals is a _lot_ faster in native linux than the vmware image on windows (3.2GHz Pentium D)
21:14:45Kasperletucoz: just keep in might that if you "force" it to be bash, bash does not reside in /bin on all systems either, e.g. on BSD
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21:16:44tucozKasperle: right.
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21:34:37SoulDeaDok, there? a command `which`, which will give you the path to bash
21:35:18SoulDeaDand it may be added a condition to switch to sh if bash is not available
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21:36:24bluebrotherSoulDeaD, that won't work in the shebang line afaik.
21:36:51SoulDeaDsorry for my lack of knowledge but what is shebang?
21:37:10bluebrotherbut how likely is the case bash isn't in /bin?
21:37:40bluebrotherscripts start with a line like "#!/bin/bash". That "#!" is the so-called shebang (sheepgard-bang)
21:37:44SoulDeaDmaybe on non gnu systems?
21:37:50SoulDeaDaha
21:37:54SoulDeaDi understand
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21:38:39bluebrotherhmm. I'm pretty sure in 99.9% of all cases we can assume bash to be in /bin, while with that dash stuff of ubuntu I think we have quite some cases where /bin/sh isn't bash
21:39:27bluebrotherso if the shebang points to /bin/bash and bash is installed somewhere else the script will fail with an error (and people running systems that have bash somewhere else should be able understanding that error)
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21:40:03SoulDeaDi think on bsd its not in bin, and there is no bash in comersial systems
21:40:20Kasperlei'd not agree with the 99.9%, but BSD people are normally happy if bash-dependent scripts do not start with #!/bin/sh ;)
21:40:21bluebrotherhmm. How will the script run correctly then?
21:40:24SoulDeaDfor example solaris does not have bash by default
21:40:41Kasperle(on FreeBSD it's in /usr/local/bin/bash, if bash is even installed)
21:41:26SoulDeaDand i think theres a way to override the shebang line
21:41:37SoulDeaDbut not sure...
21:41:41bluebrotherhmm. Would be best if someone with knowledge of dash could have a look at the script and fix it.
21:41:54bluebrotherSoulDeaD, sure, if you prepend the script with the interpreter.
21:42:17bluebrotherlike "/usr/local/bin/bash ./configure"
21:42:41blue_lizardshure but that does not override the subshells
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21:42:56bluebrotherhmm, that's a point.
21:42:59SoulDeaDno, i mean a system wide configuration that will override blablabla/bash with the correct location of the interpreter
21:43:00blue_lizardand most of the time people use a lot of subshells
21:43:35bluebrotheryou could set an alias probably.
21:43:48SoulDeaDi have read something about it somewhere... only if i remember....
21:43:52bluebrotherbut I'm not sure how this is supposed to work with paths.
21:43:57 Quit PaulJam (".")
21:44:24Kasperle"just" make all scripts bourne shell compatible ;)
21:45:00bluebrotherbut what's the difference between bash and dash? I only know dash breaks it.
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21:46:27SoulDeaDwere poor developers... ill ask the admin :P
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21:47:53SoulDeaDbut i guess hell tell mi that scripts must be compatible with a more common interpreter
21:48:05bluebrotherhehe ... maybe
21:48:20esyI got a patched ipod_fw on mac os x, I have been trying to compile it with gcc -o ipod_fw ipod_fw.c but it won't let me, it says comand not found
21:48:28bluebrotherI don't see a reason why ubuntu switched to dash as default shell.
21:48:42esyi just installed gcc4
21:48:43bluebrotheresy, what command not found? gcc?
21:48:46esy;yea
21:48:52SoulDeaDill ask him tomorrow, ill also ask another friend
21:48:55bluebrothermaybe it's not in your path?
21:49:23esyos x automatically intalls the gcc, do I have to go to the directory to run it?
21:49:53SoulDeaDahm, its my default shell, i dont know whos problem was this
21:49:54bluebrothertry "which gcc"
21:50:03SoulDeaDops
21:50:06SoulDeaDmy mistake
21:50:20esygave me this
21:50:22esyno gcc in /bin /sbin /usr/bin /usr/sbin
21:50:33blue_lizardmaybe its not called gcc
21:50:36bluebrotherhmm. Do you know where gcc got installed?
21:50:40blue_lizardit maybe gcc-4.1 or such
21:50:46SoulDeaDesy do you know where you installed gcc?
21:50:47bluebrotheralso, maybe it's called gcc-4 or something
21:50:51esynot really
21:50:58esyit was an automatic install but I can find the directory
21:51:13esyits gcc 4.0
21:51:49esydo I have to activiate it somehow in terminal or no?
21:51:55bluebrotheryou could try "which" with gcc-4.0 or gcc-4 as argument
21:52:02esylet me try
21:52:05 Quit Davide-NYC ("Chatzilla 0.9.75 [Firefox 1.5.0.7/2006090918]")
21:52:08blue_lizardor try gcc<tab>
21:52:24*bluebrother slaps his forehead.
21:52:30SoulDeaDi dont know is there an alternative for mac os x, but in linux there is locate and find
21:52:33bluebrothertab completion can be really helpful :)
21:52:45SoulDeaDif you search for gcc*
21:52:47bluebrotherI'm pretty sure os x has find.
21:52:51SoulDeaDyou may find it
21:53:01esyyea its in applicationsupport/xcode/gcc...etc
21:53:19bluebrotherhuh? Sounds strange.
21:53:21SoulDeaDoh god
21:53:31SoulDeaDfucking comersiol systems :)
21:53:40esyyea its really werid
21:53:41blue_lizardits not strange ist osx
21:53:45esyand its called gcc 4.0
21:53:58SoulDeaDosx i strange for me :P
21:54:02blue_lizardwith " " in the filename?
21:54:07bluebrotherif you found the gcc executable just try to run it with "−−version". It sould print some version information.
21:54:42SoulDeaDi have never used anything different than windows and linux
21:54:52SoulDeaDwindows at work and linux at homew
21:54:52bluebrotherwith spaces in the filename? Enclose the complete path with ", or escape every space with a prefixed \
21:55:18esywhich gcc-4.0 -o ipod_fw ipod_fw.c didn't' work
21:55:35esygave me this: /usr/bin/gcc-4.0 csh: if: Missing file name
21:55:37bluebrotherhehe ... surely that won't work
21:55:37blue_lizardif it has really the empty space in the filename make yourself a link
21:55:57bluebrothertry /usr/bin/gcc-4.0 -o ipod_fw ipod_fw.c
21:56:27bluebrotheror, to do it the "which" way, `which gcc-4.0` -o ipod_fw ipod_fw.c
21:56:40SoulDeaDwitch way :P
21:57:26esypowerpc-apple-darwin8-gcc-4.0.1: ipod_fw.c: No such file or directory
21:57:28esygave me that
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21:57:37esyfor the /usr/bin/gcc-4.0 command
21:57:51esymabye 4.0.1
21:57:59bluebrotherhmm. You are in the folder that contains ipod_fw.c when running that command?
21:58:07esyyesh :)
21:58:26blue_lizardi see there : twice
21:58:36blue_lizardand both are wrong probably
21:59:06esywhat do you mean
21:59:25blue_lizardpaste here the exact command you typed in
21:59:33 Quit Strath (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer))
21:59:43SoulDeaDthere is a : twice
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22:00
22:00:04SoulDeaDits normal, my gcc displays it the same way
22:00:16esywerid
22:00:26esyi'm having trouble pasting here because i'm using the web client
22:00:30SoulDeaDtry to make a link to gcc in /bin
22:00:37esyhow do i do that
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22:00:45bluebrotheryou can use pastebin.
22:00:49SoulDeaDln -s target link_name
22:01:00blue_lizardif you paste to irc avoid using / as the first character
22:01:11SoulDeaDln -s <location to gcc> <location to link>
22:01:11esyi typed this /usr/bin/gcc-4.0 -o ipod_fw ipod_fw.c
22:01:13blue_lizardsimply make an empty char infront
22:01:20esythx it worked
22:01:40esyand it gave me this result: powerpc-apple-darwin8-gcc-4.0.1: ipod_fw.c: No such file or directory
22:01:47esypowerpc-apple-darwin8-gcc-4.0.1: no input files
22:02:04esybut still no go
22:02:24blue_lizardthen it does not find ipod_fw.c
22:02:28SoulDeaDas i see the compiler cannot find the source file
22:02:36blue_lizardare you shure you are in the folder where it is
22:02:36bluebrotherwhat does "/usr/bin/gcc-4.0 −−version" print?
22:03:11esypowerpc-apple-darwin8-gcc-4.0.1 (GCC) 4.0.1 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 5367)
22:03:19esyCopyright (C) 2005 Free Software Foundation, Inc
22:03:30esyyea i'm in the desktop
22:03:35esyi have ipod_w in the desktop
22:03:44esyfw*
22:03:59SoulDeaDok, you have a working compiler, look at the path where you are and if the ipod_fw.c is there
22:04:09bluebrotherdoes ipod_fw.c show up when you run "ls"?
22:04:26esyno just ipod_fw
22:04:33bluebrotherwithout .c?
22:04:53esyyea
22:05:00esywhen I downloaded it it came as a txt file
22:05:04bluebrotherhmm. What does "file ipod_fw" tell?
22:05:18bluebrotherlooks like you simply need to rename that file.
22:05:39esyto .c?
22:05:46bluebrotheryeah
22:06:04bluebrother"file ipod_fw" should tell you something like "c source file". Maybe "text file"
22:06:26esyokay i just ran it
22:06:27bluebrotherif that's the case then only the file extension is missing.
22:06:33 Quit Rincewind ("Bye")
22:06:39esyai gave me like 50 or so lines
22:06:53esyeach saying ipod_fw.c:1: error: stray '\127' in program
22:06:57bluebrotherfile gave you about 50 lines?
22:07:03esyipod_fw.c:1: error: stray '\1' in program
22:07:13esymore like 200
22:07:25esyendned with ipod_fw.c:125:1551: warning: null character(s) ignored
22:07:33esydoes that mean its compiled?
22:07:46bluebrotherthis doesn't sound like source code.
22:08:01bluebrotherwhat does "file ipod_fw" say?
22:08:07blue_lizardmaybe it has been htmllized
22:08:31esywhen I do ls it shows it as ipod_fw.c
22:08:50blue_lizardpaste it into an nopaste service
22:08:56bluebrotherhuh?
22:09:14esyyea it doesn't working when I run :./ipod_fw -o apple_os.bin -e 0 Firmware-13.6.1.2
22:09:31blue_lizardi would avoid playing such games
22:09:54esyyou want me to give you what it said after I typed /usr/bin/gcc4.0 ipod_fw etc?
22:10:02blue_lizardif things are not going as they should dont play games with the firmware
22:10:08 Quit Strath (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22:10:15esyok
22:10:29linuxstbesy: The Mac OS X binary for ipod_fw is here: http://download.rockbox.org/bootloader/ipod/ipod_fw
22:10:30blue_lizardpaste the ipod_fw.c into an nopaste service
22:10:33esyit just says ./ipod_fw no such file or directory
22:10:39bluebrotherat least make sure you have a working backup and know how to resotre it :)
22:10:44 Part n1s
22:10:52esybut is that patched for 5.5g?.
22:11:09esyhttp://www.sefia.ca/rockbox/index.php
22:11:15blue_lizardfile ipod_fw
22:11:17blue_lizardipod_fw: Mach-O executable ppc
22:11:19esyi went here to get the ipod_fw that would work with 5.5g
22:11:24blue_lizardhttp://download.rockbox.org/bootloader/ipod/ipod_fw
22:11:31SoulDeaDi think somebody asked is 5.5g supported today and i think the answer was no
22:12:07esyi know its not
22:12:16bluebrotheresy, that page seems to have a compiled version.
22:12:25esyit is?
22:12:31blue_lizardthats a binary
22:12:33esyit won't run then when I try to
22:12:33bluebrother$ file ipod_fw
22:12:34bluebrotheripod_fw: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.6.9, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.9, not stripped
22:12:42bluebrotherbut that won't run on os x
22:12:56esyis there any way I can make it run on os x?
22:12:56linuxstbesy: No, that ipod_fw I linked you to is the official version. If you're wanting to run Rockbox on your 5.5g, you are going to need to get your hands dirty and patch ipod_fw.c yourself and compile it.
22:13:05bluebrotherthat was why I asked you to run file on it :)
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22:14:04esyi'm just not a programmer, I'm not familiar with patching and compiling
22:14:31bluebrotherthen I suggest you to wait until the 5.5G is officially supported.
22:15:04esyis it getting more possible to do it, or is it months away
22:15:22esyi've checked the forums like its my email
22:15:54bluebrotherI only know what I read in the forums and heared here. No idea when it will happen.
22:16:03 Quit Madkiss (Remote closed the connection)
22:16:17esyhopefully soon, i appreciate the effort from you guys
22:16:23esythx
22:16:57 Quit _FireFly_ ("Leaving")
22:17:03Nimdaeyay i just finished another theme
22:17:17Nimdaeand it only has 2 images in total :P
22:17:19bluebrotherafaik Rockbox is still not running on the 5.5G even with that patch. But I'm not aware of the latest changes.
22:17:55bluebrotherkeep an eye on the forums, I'm pretty sure someone will anounce it when it's running :)
22:18:20Nimdaehttp://www.nimdae.com/pics/rockbox/dark5g.jpg
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22:20:40*petur wonders if Nimdae already made a Muppets theme
22:20:50petur:p
22:21:45Nimdaegood idea!
22:21:55Nimdaemahna mahna!
22:22:01*petur suggests two pink cows ;)
22:22:26Nimdaepetur: i'll think about it ;)
22:22:50Nimdaeheh dark5g is now my current them on my ipod
22:23:09peturdon't do it for me if you seriously consider it - I'm not that big fan
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22:23:31Nimdaeperhaps, but i know you would use it just for the comedy factor ;)
22:24:02Nimdaei wish i could use variable sizes on the text, or multiple fonts
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22:26:13blue_lizardi have written some code and am on my way of cleaning it before submitting an patch
22:26:32blue_lizardpointer targets in passing argument 1 of 'snprintf' differ in signedness <- whats that?
22:27:21peturusing an unsigned where a signed was expected or vice versa
22:27:27blue_lizardargument 1 is called "string" ans is declared as
22:27:39blue_lizardunsigned char string[30];
22:27:50peturdrop the unsigned
22:28:40blue_lizardlol, now it complains in other lines aboud signedness
22:28:59peturcongrats on messing that up ;)
22:29:14blue_lizard 'lcd_getstringsize' differ in signedness
22:29:26blue_lizardsame "string" as para 1
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22:55:32 Nick scorche` is now known as scorche (i=ScorchE@cpe-76-171-123-86.socal.res.rr.com)
22:55:54Learamiconn: an early call to talk_init caused the simulator hang on startup.
22:56:19amiconnHmm, why only for non-english languages?
22:56:41amiconnIn my test I even didn't have any voice file installed...
22:56:52*petur remembers once fixing a crash by moving talk_init
22:57:08viny1any chance of finding nethack for play on rockbox/iriver/H320 ?
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22:57:57viny1heh
22:58:13scorcheviny1: there has been talk about it on the forums, but no one has programmed one yet so far
22:58:22viny1had 2 ask
22:58:26viny1tnx
22:58:39 Quit freqmod (Remote closed the connection)
22:58:56scorchefor the record, you didnt have to
22:59:10scorcheyou could have did a search on the forums for "nethack" and be given the same answer
22:59:35Learamiconn: not "non-english", but rather, any language selected. If global_settings.lang_file contains anything, talk_init is called.
22:59:47viny1true, but on this dialup, it was MUCH faster to simply ask. tnx again
23:00
23:00:17scorcheyeah, but i suggest you try that next time first
23:00:35LearThat, in turn, calls audio_stop. On the simulator, the audio thread isn't yet running, so a queue is never emptied, causing audio_stop to hang.
23:00:49scorchepeople appreciate you more when you show a willingness to search and attempt to find an answer yourself first =)
23:00:51LearSuggest something fishy in the SDL thread handling, I think...
23:02:11 Quit psiborg ("Ex-Chat")
23:06:52 Quit RogerBacon (Remote closed the connection)
23:07:57LearNope, audio_preinit is run much earlier on non-sim...
23:08:40 Quit scorche (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer))
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23:15:27 Join webguest05 [0] (i=44150ee3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/session)
23:15:49webguest05hey
23:16:09webguest05I'd like to help with the Gigabeat port, who can I talk to?
23:16:16peturmarkun
23:16:16markunme!
23:16:17 Quit YouCeyE ("Leaving")
23:16:19markun:)
23:16:26webguest05yes.. awesome
23:16:27 Join YouCeyE [0] (n=YouCeyE@unaffiliated/youceye)
23:16:30webguest05my name's Joan
23:16:58markunit would be best to visit us in #gigabeat, but that's not possible with the webclient
23:17:17webguest05ok. do you have a suggestion for a good IRC client? I
23:17:18markunwebguest05: which gigabeat do you have?
23:17:36webguest05f40
23:17:36markunwebguest05: depends on the OS you are using
23:17:51webguest05i have a windows laptop and a linux desktop
23:17:57webguest05(running ubuntu)
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23:18:22markunI use irssi under linux, but I don't know if you like it, it's text based.
23:18:34webguest05that's fine.. for windows?
23:19:07scorchewindows users typically use xchat, mirc, or chatzilla
23:19:11markunsome people use xchat. For windows clients maybe some other people in this channel can recomend you something
23:19:38webguest05ok.. in any case.. what can I do to help?
23:19:42webguest05hanks
23:19:59 Join jaebird [0] (n=jae@03-210.netblk-38-96-210.coolaccess.net)
23:20:04markundepends on what you can do
23:20:12markunDo you know how to program in C?
23:20:22scorchewebguest05: http://www.silverex.org/download/
23:21:06webguest05yeah, i do know C
23:21:39markunCan you read and/or write ARM assembly code?
23:21:52webguest05ot so much, but i have some time on my hands ;-)
23:22:13markunwell, in that case you can do a lot to help
23:22:18webguest05awesome
23:22:37markundid you ever read our IRC logs?
23:23:05webguest05a little bit, but not all the way through
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23:24:04 Quit Lear ("Chatzilla 0.9.75 [Firefox 2.0/2006101023]")
23:24:43*amiconn prefers HydraIRC on windows
23:25:22markunwebguest05: you should start by downloading the rockbox source. Then you can build the ARM cross compiler with tools/rockboxdev.sh
23:25:38*petur stuck with ntalk
23:25:55 Quit funky (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:26:10markunwebguest05: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/DocsIndex#For_Developers
23:27:01 Part tvelocity ("Αποχώρησε")
23:27:23webguest05I think i made it into #gigabeat
23:27:53markunyes, and left again :)
23:28:08webguest05yeah.. it crashed on me.. i'm on my way back :-D
23:28:19*petur wonders if it was also with the same nick ;)
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23:28:59webguest05it doesn't like me..
23:29:09webguest05as soon as I start typing it crashes
23:29:09markunnot really no
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23:29:15webguest05:-/
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23:29:33 Quit GFoux ("Le vrai danger, c'est quand les hommes penseront comme les ordinateurs")
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23:30:57SoulDeaDwebguest05 what os are you currently using?
23:31:09webguest05windows xp
23:31:20SoulDeaDdownload mIRC
23:31:22webguest05ok
23:31:42scorcheew
23:31:43markunwebguest05: development will be easier using linux I think
23:32:05webguest05yeah, i have linux, just have to plug it in and add the monitor :-D
23:32:05SoulDeaDhe can use xchat or BX etc. on linux
23:32:16webguest05she :-)
23:32:29SoulDeaDexcuse me
23:32:32SoulDeaD:)
23:32:39webguest05no prob
23:33:16 Quit jhMikeS (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:34:24 Join italy [0] (i=italy@71-222-65-250.ptld.qwest.net)
23:34:40italyhow do i get rid of the apple bootloader completely?
23:35:18 Quit scorche (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:35:23 Join Criamos [0] (n=Criamos@p5493171B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
23:35:24SoulDeaDwhy, does it bother you?
23:35:30 Join scorche [0] (i=ScorchE@cpe-76-171-123-86.socal.res.rr.com)
23:35:41italyyes i'm a faggot
23:35:48SoulDeaDi really do not notice its presence
23:36:30italyi want it to boot faster
23:37:14SoulDeaDsurprise
23:37:17SoulDeaDyou cannot
23:37:37 Quit petur ("sssssssssss---------PLOP!")
23:39:27webguest05I can't quite figure out how to get onto the freenode server with mIRC
23:39:53SoulDeaDtype /server irc.freenode.org
23:40:01SoulDeaDtype /server irc.freenode.net
23:40:05SoulDeaDmy mistake
23:40:16linuxstbitaly: If you get rid of the apple bootloader, the Rockbox bootloader will never be run...
23:40:23webguest05ah, thanks
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23:41:17SoulDeaDwebguest05 you can add it to the list and mark it auto connect
23:41:27webguest05k.. thanks
23:41:33SoulDeaDno problem
23:42:19 Quit webguest05 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
23:44:05*SoulDeaD is going to bed
23:44:16SoulDeaDgoodnight
23:45:10 Quit SoulDeaD ("Leaving")
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