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#rockbox log for 2006-11-11

00:00:06goffawe might be getting somewhere :)
00:01:05 Join voyeur [0] (i=58a10615@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/session)
00:01:19goffahmm.. maybe the patch is hosed..
00:01:54rasherwell, if you already applied some of it, youll get errors
00:02:10goffanah.. i nuked the dir and re extracted the bz2
00:03:56 Quit [sellout] (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:05:26barrywardellmidgey34: hmm. just tried a build there
00:05:55barrywardellit looks like it could be similar to a problem i encountered before
00:06:18barrywardellwhere ld on osx doesn't like making an empty file
00:06:57midgey34hmm
00:07:47barrywardellit happend before when building bitmaps
00:08:09barrywardellwhen it tried to build bitmap dirs with no bitmaps in them it gave an error
00:08:25barrywardellthat's why there are osx.dummy.bmp files in some of the bitmap dirs now
00:08:56midgey34yah, i understood that
00:09:47barrywardelli'm not sure if it's the same problem here, but it's a possibliity
00:12:27 Join TeaSea [0] (n=thunderc@82.152.193.218)
00:13:35 Quit damaki_ (Remote closed the connection)
00:16:54 Join MarcoPolo [0] (n=MarcoPol@che78-2-82-227-240-106.fbx.proxad.net)
00:17:08 Quit webguest49 ("CGI:IRC")
00:18:42 Quit TeaSeaLancs (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
00:25:12Nimdaewhat's a device that the devs are short on right now that would help improve development for said device?
00:25:57goffaNimdae: gigabeat
00:26:03goffasee #gigabeat for details
00:26:09goffaif anyone is in there
00:30:04 Quit FOAD ("Lost terminal")
00:32:29 Join Paul_the_Nerd [0] (n=Llorean@cpe-66-69-210-194.austin.res.rr.com)
00:32:41Nimdaejust curious because i may be getting a new job with significant pay increase
00:32:46Nimdaei may be feeling generous ;)
00:32:55Nimdaegigabeat S right?
00:33:54Nimdaeoh yeah, this is the device that the zune basically is
00:35:46Paul_the_NerdExcept the Zune has a bit more hardware.
00:36:29 Join Criamos [0] (n=Criamos@p5493301D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
00:37:14Nimdaeyeah
00:37:20Nimdaethe wifi, etc
00:37:38Paul_the_NerdYep
00:38:06Nimdaei read somewhere that toshiba is actually building the zune for microsoft
00:39:16Paul_the_NerdYeah
00:39:19Paul_the_NerdSo I've heard
00:40:32*Genre9mp3 wonders why this is supposed to be a (specific) Zune accessory: http://www.zune.net/en-us/accessories/monster/musicshare.htm#
00:41:01 Quit voyeur ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
00:43:07goffaif you could get audio on the gigabeat F going you'd be my hero :)
00:43:37locutoxit's a zune accessory because it huge and ugly as fuck
00:43:46Paul_the_NerdGenre9mp3: Hahaha, advertising is wonderful
00:44:07Genre9mp3Paul_the_Nerd: indeed
00:44:31goffait's $20 because its made by monster too :)
00:44:32Genre9mp3noticed the "Designed for Zune" logo?
00:44:34Genre9mp3pffft
00:45:14Paul_the_NerdWell, a splitter + two in-line volume adjusters might run $20 if you got them ad radio shack anyway
00:45:47locutoxi made a volume splitter in a mint can which ran off 9v :D
00:46:22 Join FOAD [0] (n=dok@a82-93-10-238.adsl.xs4all.nl)
00:46:45Nimdaeit's made for zune because that label will make it sell
00:46:57 Join GreyFoux [0] (n=greyfoux@APoitiers-256-1-60-249.w90-16.abo.wanadoo.fr)
00:47:00Nimdaecd #gigabeat
00:47:03 Nick GreyFoux is now known as nGs|GreySleeps (n=greyfoux@APoitiers-256-1-60-249.w90-16.abo.wanadoo.fr)
00:47:03Nimdaewtf am i thinking
00:47:09Paul_the_NerdHahaha
00:47:13Genre9mp3LOL
00:47:48Nimdaei'm troubleshooting hard drive errors on a server at the moment, guess i have linux commands on the mind
00:49:13 Quit ender` (" In its default setup, Windows XP on the Internet amounts to a car parked in a bad part of town, with the doors unlocked, the)
00:50:01barrywardellamiconn: i updated that power management patch so that it doesn't shutdown on NiMH/Alkaline batteries. It adds an empty function to flash/bootbox/main.c though. does that matter?
00:53:16 Part n1s
00:57:34 Quit MarcoPolo (Remote closed the connection)
00:57:49***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:00
01:01:03 Quit tim66 (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
01:01:48 Quit Criamos ("( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.03 :: www.XLhost.de )")
01:02:10Nimdaeis there a rockbox related ipod channel too?
01:02:13*Nimdae /lists
01:02:44Nimdaeok, doing /list on irssi == bad
01:04:50Paul_the_NerdThis is really the only official Rockbox channel
01:11:47 Quit Febs ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
01:13:01 Join TerrorByte [0] (i=4889bb7a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/session)
01:13:11TerrorByteHi guys.
01:13:58TerrorByteFINE, ignore me!
01:14:00TerrorByte:P
01:14:37 Quit obo ("bye")
01:14:45 Join EspeonEefi [0] (i=espeonee@CERULEANCITY.MIT.EDU)
01:15:39barrywardelllostlogic: i noticed you were working on the power management patch a few months ago. any reason why you didn't commit it?
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01:28:02 Join ScoTTie [0] (i=skotty@220-253-38-62.VIC.netspace.net.au)
01:28:14 Quit My_Sic (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer))
01:29:14 Quit spiorf (Remote closed the connection)
01:32:59 Quit TerrorByte ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
01:38:39 Join hacksaw [0] (n=paradox@124-168-143-63.dyn.iinet.net.au)
01:39:18 Join |AhIoRoS| [0] (n=ahioros@201.224.122.227)
01:42:01lostlogicbarrywardell: Probalby just that I was too busy to look at it properly
01:43:25preglowroflol
01:43:42lostlogicpreglow: snot that funny
01:43:46lostlogicor maybe it is at 1am
01:44:06preglowhaha
01:44:33preglowmore like 2
01:44:50lostlogicyou're in +1? ok.
01:44:54preglowyups
01:45:13preglowand it's pretty darned cold here, i'll have you know
01:45:23Paul_the_NerdIt's all *hot* here.
01:45:39Paul_the_NerdIt's 30C right now. =/
01:45:47lostlogicit's fscking freezing and raining here −− I came back to the office because I wanted to warm up before bicycling my 4 miles home in the coldass rain
01:45:48barrywardelli think it looks quite good to commit to me
01:46:01lostlogicbarrywardell: you have commit access now, right? go for it.
01:46:22barrywardellyeah, i was just wondering if there had been a reason you didn't commit it
01:46:29preglowit's just around 0 centigrade here
01:46:31lostlogic:)
01:46:37preglowgoing to get worse, but feels bad enough
01:46:39barrywardellso i'll go ahead and commit it now
01:46:40lostlogicwe're ~5C and thunderstorm
01:46:55preglowbut what a nice excuse to warm up with some gammel dansk
01:47:02*Paul_the_Nerd envies all you people that have an actual "winter"
01:47:11lostlogichehe, I'm properly beer'd up to ride home :)
01:47:16Paul_the_NerdI don't care if *you* don't like it.
01:47:25preglowPaul_the_Nerd: oh, i like it
01:47:35*lostlogic too
01:47:54preglowi like that about this place, get both a nice winter and a good summer, if you're lucky
01:48:30preglowsummer's not too long, but you do get a couple of months of more than hot enough weather if you're lucky
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01:50:58preglowbut i think i'll just go with the excuse and warm up with an ipa
01:52:36Nimdaeyou people and your internation standards temperature measurement
01:54:01Paul_the_NerdNimdae: I'm in Texas. It's 85F now, it was over 90 earlier today, I just converted for everyone's convenience.
01:55:45preglowmmmmm, nice ipa
01:56:32Nimdae63 here
01:56:34Nimdaeand i'm in texas
01:56:47preglowwell, texas is big enough for some variation, heh
01:56:53Nimdaewell
01:56:57Paul_the_NerdTexas is big enough for a *lot* of variation. :)
01:57:08Nimdaehttp://www.nimdae.com/pics/cold2.jpg
01:57:41Paul_the_NerdNimdae: It *almost* pulled it off for one day later
01:57:52Nimdaeheh
01:58:15Nimdaethat would have been even better
01:58:16*BHSPitLappy is a Texan.
01:59:33BHSPitLappyPaul_the_Nerd, live here, or just visiting?
01:59:55Paul_the_NerdWell, spent about half my life on and off in Texas.
02:00
02:00:00Paul_the_NerdLive in Austin for the time being.
02:00:01BHSPitLappyah.
02:00:04BHSPitLappynever knew.
02:00:15Paul_the_NerdSo, I'm not sure if you'd consider me a Texan. ;) I know plenty of folk who wouldn't.
02:03:32Nimdaei was born and raised in texas ;)
02:03:47Paul_the_NerdI was born in Louisiana, and raised all over. :)
02:04:11Nimdaeheh
02:06:22preglowinteresting how the word 'folk' is used exactly as in norwegian
02:06:31preglowbut then i do tend to find stuff like that interesting...
02:06:36 Quit TeaSea (Remote closed the connection)
02:06:37Paul_the_NerdHahaha.
02:08:55BHSPitLappyI would have said folks
02:09:08BHSPitLappyany mac users here?
02:09:20 Quit Genre9mp3 (Nick collision from services.)
02:09:24 Join Genre9mp3 [0] (n=yngwiejo@dsl-88-218-17-158.customers.vivodi.gr)
02:09:27preglowisn't folk and folks the same? both are plural in a sense
02:09:43preglowi'll just stop speaking semantic nonsense
02:10:10BHSPitLappyI would use "folk" as plural if it were paired with another word to describe a type of people
02:10:14preglowBHSPitLappy: i think linuxstb uses macs
02:10:23BHSPitLappylike "carnival folk" or "kin folk"
02:10:31Nimdaeor mac folk ;)
02:10:34preglowhaha
02:10:36BHSPitLappyindeed
02:10:46BHSPitLappybut not "look at those folk over there"...
02:10:47preglowstill amuses me how it's used exactly the same in all contexts i can think of
02:11:22BHSPitLappythen where's linuxstb_ ...
02:11:28*BHSPitLappy taps foot impatiently
02:11:29BHSPitLappy;)
02:12:05Paul_the_Nerdpreglow: To me, "folk" means one collection of people, and "folks" means multiple, like the difference between people and peoples, but I'm quirky like that.
02:12:43BHSPitLappymakes sense
02:12:51Nimdaei never say "peoples" in a serious sense
02:12:57Nimdaeonly in a mocking manner
02:13:02BHSPitLappyI can't think of a singular context of folk
02:13:11preglowbecause there isn't one, heh
02:13:13Paul_the_NerdNimdae: I never say it, but it's come up a few times in writing.
02:13:24preglowwhich is why i told myself to stop speaking gibberish
02:13:43preglow'folk' just means 'people' in norwegian, so i say it all the time
02:13:48BHSPitLappyscrew it, I'll just join ##apple
02:13:49Nimdaelike "how's my peoples?"
02:15:59locutoxfuck
02:16:02Nimdaesomeone should port the ipl serial stuff to rockbox >.>
02:16:12Nimdaei would if i knew how, heh
02:16:14BHSPitLappy-what- iPL serial stuff
02:16:14locutoxdoes anyone know a program that'll remove the newlines that people add to format text to 80 columns?
02:16:23locutoxbut not everything else
02:16:24BHSPitLappylocutox, watch your language.
02:16:31locutoxok
02:16:39Nimdaesed?
02:17:14NimdaeBHSPitLappy: apparently ipl figured out how to get the serial port working and use the apple accessory protocol
02:17:58BHSPitLappythey can send raw stuff, on 1G-3G models
02:18:01locutoxsed eh
02:18:14BHSPitLappyand are those even serious rockbox targets
02:18:38 Join uski [0] (n=uski@stargate.esiee.fr)
02:18:48Nimdaei was reading stuff on the 4g and 5g as well
02:18:52preglowlocutox: i think you'll need indent or something
02:18:54Nimdaein their forum
02:19:03preglowlocutox: it requires a tool that can parse the language in question
02:19:07locutoxi want the reverse of line wrapping
02:19:12Paul_the_NerdBHSPitLappy: We have a working 3G port, at least.
02:19:18uskihi guys; well I'm having a random C problem, i know it's offtopic but maybe someone here will be able to help me; it's related with shared libraries in C so if anyone thinks he can help please PM me...
02:19:25preglowlocutox: i know, and like i said, unless you're talking about .txt, you need a tool that knows the language
02:19:26Paul_the_NerdBHSPitLappy: Nobody with a 1g/2g has done any work though, I think
02:19:33preglowuski: ask away
02:19:39preglowoh, pm...
02:19:50uskiwell i just don't want to be offtopic here :)
02:20:19Nimdaelocutox: i'm betting sed will do what you want
02:20:39locutoxsed looks like its for wrapping text
02:20:44locutoxbut i will play with it
02:20:53Nimdaeactually, sed is for parsing text, really
02:21:00Nimdaeyou can do all kinds of things with it
02:21:07Nimdaei see it mostly used for find/replace tasks
02:22:52locutoxahh
02:24:08Nimdaei wish our rhn server would stop emailing me :(
02:24:55 Quit Genre9mp3 ("I don't suffer from Rockbox psychosis. I enjoy every minute of it.")
02:31:12BHSPitLappyhehe
02:31:12BHSPitLappyhttp://www.evula.org/dragoon/pics/supercoder.jpg
02:32:24Nimdaei need one of those
02:40:47 Join homielowe [0] (i=42b74c07@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/session)
02:41:27midgey34barrywardell: i got the ondio sim to build
02:41:40barrywardellgreat. what was the problem?
02:41:56midgey34well i just disabled the building of the codecs
02:42:50 Quit homielowe (Client Quit)
02:43:21 Quit Blackfish ("( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.03 :: www.XLhost.de )")
02:43:47midgey34i think it has something to do with ld and its dislike for creating empty files
02:44:14midgey34since ondio is HWCODEC it wont build any codecs so libcodec.a is empty
02:46:18barrywardelli see
02:46:39barrywardelldo you have a patch?
02:46:50midgey34no, it was simply a hack to see if it would build
02:47:20midgey34my way just skips building codecs (obviously a bad thing for swcodec)
02:47:42barrywardellah, ok. surely there must be a method similar to what's done with the bitmaps
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02:57:53***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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03:54:21hacksawhi all
03:55:04hacksawany iaudio x5 users here ?
03:57:16goffa hacksaw: me
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03:59:43hacksawcool, im in the process of taking mine apart, its a x5l 30gb
03:59:51goffacool.. same as mine
03:59:59hacksawi'm wondering if any more pics of the internals are needed
04:00
04:00:13goffawell... i'm not a dev
04:00:22goffabut i can't imagine any would hurt
04:00:45hacksawtrue
04:02:58goffacan't wait until they get the power sorted out
04:03:39hacksawbetter effeciency ?
04:03:46goffayeah
04:03:57goffaits not as efficent as default firmware yet
04:04:48hacksawdo you charge your unit off charger or USB ?
04:04:58goffacharger
04:05:37goffai listen to tunes all night.. so i just plug it in next to my bed overnight... and listen to it or my h140
04:06:10jhMikeSIf anyone has any x5 battery benchmarks available post them. Also need some for x5 (not L). I've yet to do one myself on the 60GB.
04:06:26goffamine is the L
04:06:31goffaor i would give you some
04:06:38goffawell i'd have to do them first
04:06:46jhMikeSI have one that I plotted. Would like to see how much variation exists
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04:06:58 Quit midgey34 ()
04:07:16goffawould be interesting to see
04:07:41jhMikeSI can't do an L myself so anything would be helpful.
04:11:46 Nick webguest77 is now known as Jaffo (i=18d956fd@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-2fb2499439e643a7)
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04:24:21hacksawanyone take their x5 apart ?
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04:28:46goffai didn't touch mine
04:29:29hacksawi think i'v toasted my charge circuit
04:29:30goffaif i do it'll be to add a larger hard drive
04:29:48goffabut i doubt i'll do that
04:29:50hacksawhaha yeah 30gb not enough
04:30:10goffawell... i've got a 30 and 2 40 gb players... :P
04:30:35goffaactually 2 30's if you count my karma.. but the wheel is broken so i don't use it anymore
04:31:38hacksawi removed the hdd just then....wouldn't be to hard to replace it
04:31:44 Join thePianoMan [0] (n=thePiano@stproxy.latrobe.edu.au)
04:31:50goffacool
04:32:03goffayeah... doubt i will any time soon
04:32:11goffamaybe in a year or 2 when things get dirt cheap
04:33:31goffaand if i do oggs 110gb should be enough for any trip :)
04:34:16goffa2 batteries last longer than one... too that's what i found out on my vacation this summer
04:35:37hacksawoggs are the way to go
04:36:06goffayeah... flacs are just too big for a portable
04:36:25goffayou don't get the variety
04:36:59goffampc support was huge for me.. that's why i switched over to rockbox
04:37:10hacksawgreat if u want the cd quality
04:37:25goffamy collection is about 40% mpc, 40% flac, 20 % other
04:37:43goffaflacs get converted to ogg for the player though
04:38:37hacksawi'm starting to do that to
04:39:11goffaits more time consuming.. but i like to have flac in case some other compression comes out that takes the world over :)
04:39:41goffaand its not bad if you add an album here and there
04:43:13 Quit mirak ("Ex-Chat")
04:43:41hacksawits looks like the x5l has two batteries instead of 1 big one
04:46:38Soap2x the normal X5 battery?
04:47:32 Quit Jaffo ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
04:48:39hacksawSoap: not exactly different sizes
04:48:56jhMikeSThe x5 battery is 950mAh and the x5l battery is 2250mAh. Couldn't just be two x5 batteries.
04:51:09hacksawis the x5 thinner than the x5l ?
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04:51:23goffai believe it is
04:51:37jhMikeSyes except the 60gig with is the same size as the x5l (2-platter drive)
04:51:38Soapwouldn't running two batteries take a circuit to keep battery 1 from trying to charge battery 2 (or vise versa)? Even batteries picked for matched discharge cycles at birth tend to drift apart with age.
04:52:18jhMikeSyoud need a couple diodes at the least
04:54:09SoapTrue, a diode solution would work for the discharge part of the equation, how about for charging two batteries at onece?
04:54:17Soaps/onece/once
04:54:54jhMikeSreverse the diode circuit
04:56:06Soapso the question I'm getting to in a round-about manner is: Is there reason to believe the X5 also has the (simple) circuitry to properly use two battery packs?
04:56:45jhMikeScould be but don't know if it actually does myself
04:57:18 Quit funky ("leaving")
04:57:57***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
04:58:57hacksawSoap: that could be possible, because the way it looks the batteries might be in series connecting to the same point on the circuit board
04:59:29Soapoh, I didn't expect them to connect like that, hmm.
05:00
05:00:28hacksawim taking photos of this
05:01:36hacksawif u wanna take a look
05:04:55jhMikeSseeing as the battery bench I was given for an x5l ended abruptly at just a hair above 3.3V I doubt there's a diode involved or two batteries in series because they would have to discharge to around half that each and charging wouldn't work very well.
05:05:25Nimdaeif it's in series, it would produce double the voltage, i would expect it to be a parallel circuit if it is 2 batteries coupled
05:05:53Nimdaeat least, that's my understanding
05:06:03Nimdaeof course, i'm an idiot when it comes to hardware :P
05:06:22 Join menosm [0] (n=chatzill@user-11fac6q.dsl.mindspring.com)
05:06:56jhMikeSBut then the battery bench would end at 3.6V+ even with schottkey diodes which have low forward drop. that drop would also waste a lot of power at such low voltages
05:07:25Nimdaethat would, of course, double the amps, which could be regulated with a simple circuit
05:08:07zearen't batteries multiple cells by definition anyway?
05:08:07zeheh
05:09:26 Quit Seed (Nick collision from services.)
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05:09:35Nimdaeze: not all
05:10:05 Quit locutox ()
05:10:17thePianoMani think most (rechargeable) cells that are used in things like MP3 players are 1.2V per cell... so you need 3 cells to make 3.6V
05:10:43hacksawwhen it comes to battery theory it amateurs night for me
05:10:44jhMikeSthe pcf50606 does the regulation. looking at the pcf datasheet it has support for a rechargeable backup battery that can be charged off the main battery
05:11:10zeNimdae: i said by definition... since battery is short for something like "battery of cells"
05:11:18 Part Paul_the_Nerd
05:11:19zebattery implying multiple, like an array
05:11:40zethus "battery" is a misnomer for anything thats a single cell
05:11:52BHSPitLappyanybody in here use mac?
05:11:54zebut thats beside the point
05:12:04Nimdaewell, battery also refers to the act of beating someone
05:12:09zeheh
05:12:11jhMikeSze: nice going on the semantics. makes me jealous. usually my department :)
05:12:17thePianoManBHSPitLappy, yes, but not with my MP3 player
05:12:22zejhMikeS: :p
05:13:13BHSPitLappythePianoMan, but are you on OSX?
05:13:15jhMikeSNimdae: and that comment appeals to my macabre sense of humor :)
05:13:20zeactually, doesn't battery, as in assault, imply a series of assaults? :p
05:13:32thePianoManBHSPitLappy, yep... 10.4.8 i think
05:13:56Nimdaein any case, if it can charge a secondary battery from the primary, it sounds like something like a passive ups
05:14:01jhMikeSI've never heard of anyone charged with cell...no pun
05:14:08Nimdaelol
05:14:09 Part hcs
05:14:10zehaha
05:14:31Nimdaea combination of two or more cells electrically connected to work together to produce electric energy.
05:14:59Nimdaethe act of beating or battering.
05:15:16Nimdaeit seems we are each right in our definitions ;)
05:15:17ze"to beat with successive blows"
05:15:21zebatter
05:15:21zeheh
05:15:58BHSPitLappythePianoMan, pm
05:16:10Nimdaea park at the S end of Manhattan, in New York City.
05:16:17Nimdae:P
05:16:31jhMikeSmmmmmm...batter....goes well with successive blows
05:16:36zemy point was just that since a battery's just multiple cells (in series generally afaik) anyway, it doesn't seem so strange to have 2 batteries in series
05:16:42zejhMikeS: hah :p
05:16:52zeso long as the voltage works out right one way or another
05:17:13Nimdaeputting together batteries/cells in series increases the voltage by the number in each cell
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05:17:24zeright
05:17:24Nimdaeso if you put 3 1.2v cells together, you get 3.6v
05:17:41zei think thats kindof the point to batteries vs single cells anyway
05:17:46zeafaik
05:17:53Nimdaeif you want to add multiple batteries to a device to power it in a manner of extending power on time, you wouldn't want to do this
05:18:11Nimdaealso, the sensitive electronics may not be able to handle it
05:18:16zewell, you'd be more inclined to avoid it if you can
05:18:20zeprobably
05:18:27Nimdaeadding 2 3.6v batteries in series would result in 7.2v of power
05:18:50Nimdaehowever, if you connect them in parallel, you maintain an average voltage between the batteries
05:18:50zeso are they 3.6v?
05:19:02zein the x5l
05:19:09Nimdaei dunno
05:19:15Nimdaei'm just using numbers that were mentioned :P
05:19:22zecould it be possible that they somehow got pairs of 1.8v's?
05:19:46zeas non-standard as that apparently would be...
05:19:46zeheh
05:19:49Nimdaei would imagine if one device has one battery, and another has two, then they would be connected in parallel
05:20:40zeNimdae: yeah, but then you get all those charging/discharging issues that were brought up
05:20:46zeheh
05:23:08Nimdaei wouldn't imagine a charge/discharge issue would occur
05:23:30Nimdaethe flow of electricity should affect one or the other pack
05:23:52Nimdaeif anything, you would just need a more powerful charger to get decent charge times
05:23:59zeok
05:24:07Nimdae*shouldn't
05:24:19zehmm
05:24:28zeok
05:24:50zewell thats beyond my knowledge
05:25:04zemy sad knowledge of electricity tends to be concerned more with AC
05:25:21hacksawthe charger puts out 5v 2A
05:25:24zewhich is effectively something else entirely
05:25:27Nimdaei read up about this stuff a while back trying to understand a device i had that took 4 AA batteries, but not all entirely in a series
05:25:36zeheh
05:26:05Nimdaeit was 2 pair of AAs in series, then those arrays in parallel
05:26:13zeah
05:26:17 Quit |AhIoRoS| ("Abandonando, see you http://ahioros.homelinux.net")
05:26:25Nimdaeso while it was 4 AA batteries, it was only 3v
05:26:26zeso it wanted 3v but longer life
05:26:34Nimdae3v but higher amperage
05:26:38zeoh
05:26:39zeor that
05:26:40ze:p
05:26:57Nimdaei guess the higher amperage is easier to regulate than the higher voltage
05:27:16zehmm
05:27:38zei dunno how to lower voltage in DC
05:27:59zebut i guess resisters raise it while lowering amps, right?
05:28:19Nimdaeresistors resist, they don't raise anything
05:28:37zedoesn't voltage go up with resistance?
05:28:50Nimdaenot that i know of, but that kinda goes beyond my knowledge
05:28:55zei could be wrong
05:29:11zeso i guess lets stop talking about things beyond our knowledge :p
05:29:52Nimdaeas far as i know, the only way to change voltage is through transformers, voltage regulators, or splitting/merging circuits
05:30:08zeok so whats a 'voltage regulator'?
05:30:27Nimdaei think it's a fancy transistor
05:30:27Nimdaeheh
05:30:35zeoh
05:30:38Nimdaei honestly don't know
05:30:41zejust PWM?
05:30:48hacksawze: if resistance goes up current goes down
05:31:13Nimdaecurrent would be amperage, right?
05:31:32Nimdaei haven't had to remember this since high school :S
05:31:34zeheh
05:32:02hacksawyes
05:32:14Nimdaethat's what i figured
05:32:19hacksawhaha i know what u mean
05:33:01hacksawthis all started because i'm trying to make a charging circuit for the car
05:33:11Nimdaeheh
05:33:25zehacksaw: but so the voltage doesn't change when that happens?
05:33:39Nimdaeit shouldn't
05:33:44zemaybe thats a mistaken impression i got from the volts+amps/watts conversion equations
05:33:44Nimdaeas far as i know, heh
05:33:47zeheh
05:34:17hacksawwell ohms law E=I x R
05:34:33hacksawso thats assuming the voltage is the same
05:34:35jhMikeSP = EI, P = I^2 x R
05:34:39Nimdaei want to take my broken fm transmitter and attach an audio cable to it to connect to my car stereo's line in
05:35:06jhMikeSif it's broken why? what'll it do?
05:35:17Nimdaeit still charges
05:35:21Nimdaeit just doesn't transmit anymore
05:35:34hacksawthats my goal as well to use line out straight into the amp
05:36:00Nimdaesince the audio circuit is easily accessible in the transmitter package, i figured i could attach a line out cable to it
05:36:18jhMikeSI'd look for switchmode regulators that can take an external power MOSFET or some such
05:37:08*Nimdae stares blankly at jhMikeS
05:37:17jhMikeScould get free samples from Maxim from their website
05:37:21zeswitchmode regulation is the same as pulse width modulation, right?
05:37:22zeheh
05:37:35jhMikeSor National Semiconductor.
05:37:49jhMikeSze: There's PWM and PFM. Some chips have both
05:37:57zewhats the F
05:38:03jhMikeSfrequency
05:38:07thePianoManswitch mode reg is based on PWM i think
05:38:07zeah
05:38:11hacksawi got a pop, see u later
05:38:21hacksawpop out, oh bi
05:38:27jhMikeSbi
05:38:33 Part hacksaw ("Ex-Chat")
05:38:49zeheh
05:39:08zei've got an op-amp and an lm78 (iirc) from national that i still haven't done anything with :p
05:39:12jhMikeSso some use pulse frequency modulation, PWM or both
05:39:13Nimdaei wanna take one of the many slots in my car and turn it into an ipod dock
05:39:40zejhMikeS: that kind of regulation feels so dirty and kludgey to me
05:39:41zeheh
05:39:45jhMikeS5v ready made switcher chips are easy to get
05:40:19Nimdaei wonder if i could turn the tape deck into an ipod slot
05:40:20zehow does throwing too much voltage for a short time equate to being less voltage?
05:40:21jhMikeSze: quite common really
05:40:23*Nimdae contemplates
05:40:27zei mean they say it "averages" but how does it really?
05:40:28zeheh
05:41:01jhMikeSIt's filtered by a low pass circuit, ie. a capacitor
05:41:05Nimdaebe kinda interesting to be able to just slide the ipod into a slot and go
05:41:13zeah
05:42:00Nimdaeactually, i kinda thought about taking an old ipod, taking it out of the enclosure, and embedding it into my dash
05:42:04Nimdaeheh
05:42:23zeheh
05:42:42Nimdaeor better yet, in my stearing wheel
05:42:50zei guess there's car stereos that have the dock connector on them and act like a remote to control the ipod through the stereo's own interface
05:42:59Nimdaehave a rockboxed stearing wheel
05:43:07zeso you can just stick the ipod out of the way somewhere and not screw with it while its plugged in
05:43:25Nimdaeyeah, but unfortunately rockbox doesn't support the apple accessory protocol yet
05:43:35zeheh
05:43:49Nimdaefound that out the hard way, heh
05:43:54zehehe
05:44:07Nimdaei was all "wtf, my remote doesn't work, stupid thing is broken"
05:44:08goffaheh.. i just went ghetto and got a deck with aux in... and use a car carger
05:44:30Nimdaeyeah, i'm gonna end up going that route
05:44:37zei dunno anything about the ones that feature it either
05:44:47Nimdaei just wanna hack my old fm transmitter so i have just one cable
05:44:54zeout of the whole wall full of car stereos at best buy there were all of 2 or 3 with ipod connectors
05:45:00zethey could be junk anyway for all i know
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05:45:20zeNimdae: how would that be 1 cable if you add another cable to it?
05:45:34Nimdaei would be essentially splicing them together
05:45:44zesplicing them?
05:45:45Nimdaeso one cable going into the ipod
05:46:02zewhere's the power cable plug in at?
05:46:03Nimdaeyeah, the audio cable would be connected to the audio connections on the fm transmitter rather than to the ipod itself
05:46:14Nimdaethe fm transmitter is the power cable
05:46:25zeheh
05:46:34zeyeah but it plugs into something other than the ipod, right? to actually draw power from...
05:46:42Nimdaeyeah
05:46:43zelike the "cigarette lighter"
05:46:46Nimdaecig lighter
05:46:47Nimdaeyeah
05:47:17Nimdaei could probably even rig that up to be more hidden too :P
05:47:18zepretty soon they'll just start calling them power sockets
05:47:20Nimdaebut why bother
05:47:22goffaonly thing i don't like with the cig lighter charger is that there is noise when i use it in conjunction with the aux in
05:47:32zeand then some power sockets'll come with a cigarette lighter accessory
05:47:32ze:p
05:47:37goffasince i have 2 players.. i charge one and use the other on aux in
05:47:45goffapita.. but it works
05:47:53Nimdaeze: actually, my car didn't come with the actually lighter part
05:47:58zegoffa: weird
05:48:02zeNimdae: yeah, i'm not surprised
05:48:03zeheh
05:48:04Nimdaei don't smoke, so no ashtrays or lighter
05:48:47goffaits that way on my x5 and my h140
05:49:14zegoffa: i didn't think DC systems had issues like that
05:49:29zelike AC stuff gets ground loops and that sorta junk
05:49:34goffaprobably just shitty adapters
05:49:36goffai dunno
05:49:38zeor noise in the power and stuff
05:49:43Nimdaei'd say shitty adapters
05:50:04goffai had 2 of cowon's and they both do it
05:50:05Nimdaecould also be bad shielding on the radio
05:50:08jhMikeScig lighter chargers are often switchmode. could be a bad frequency for the app.
05:50:11zewell i guess if its got a voltage regulator without good shielding
05:50:17zeor yeah bad frequency
05:50:56 Nick myzar|away is now known as myzar (i=pwnt@c-24-103-130-103.client.hacked.us)
05:51:00zedimmers are notorious for causing noise with computer audio recording
05:51:11zei always wondered why until i found out that dimmers are usually switchmode
05:51:18jhMikeSdimmers as in light dimmers?
05:51:23zejhMikeS: yeah
05:52:05jhMikeSthey chop the sinewave off till the voltage gets high enough then conduct the rest of the ac cycle
05:52:23zeheh
05:53:05 Quit uski ("Leaving")
05:54:12 Join pagefault [0] (n=pagefaul@pdpc/supporter/active/pagefault)
05:57:07BHSPitLappythePianoMan, thanks for the font, I managed to convert it just fine.
05:59:06goffaheh... cars are lined up down my block... didn't know what was going on
05:59:15goffaguess there's a strip show next door
05:59:28jhMikeSbachelor party! :P
05:59:39 Quit menosm ("Chatzilla 0.9.75 [Firefox 2.0/2006101023]")
05:59:52goffawell i live next to a bowling alley/restaraunt/bar
06:00
06:00:06goffabut normally things are pretty slow even on friday nights
06:02:39Nimdaeheh
06:02:50Nimdaewhat are you doing sitting here then?
06:03:40goffagood question
06:09:09 Quit bawb2 ("seacrest out!")
06:13:43BHSPitLappyjhMikeS, We're out of ointment!
06:13:57*BHSPitLappy hopes jhMikeS gets the reference
06:14:05BHSPitLappy(otherwise, it would be awkward.)
06:14:24zei think its awkward anyway
06:14:25*jhMikeS has an eyebrow raised
06:14:26ze:p
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06:14:32 Quit scottder (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
06:14:39BHSPitLappywww.xkcd.com
06:15:34zehaha
06:16:28goffahe he he
06:17:08*goffa decided to save money/not get all revved up with nowhere to go
06:17:50jhMikeS:P
06:17:59jhMikeS:)
06:18:28zehaha
06:18:38ze"if you die in canada, you die in _real life_!"
06:18:41 Quit actionshrimp ("( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.01 :: www.XLhost.de )")
06:19:10 Quit BlackHoleOfCode (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
06:19:34 Join BlackHoleOfCode [0] (n=BlackHol@69-172-138-70.atlsfl.adelphia.net)
06:19:53goffaits sad that this is true http://www.xkcd.com/c181.html
06:20:01goffadamn web-net
06:20:14jhMikeSze: are they sure? is living in Canada really living? (to all Canuks: joking)
06:20:16zeheh
06:20:23zeheh
06:20:50goffayeah... we really had to beef up the border here in the past couple of years
06:21:13jhMikeSthis is the blagoblag
06:21:13goffawe were worried about the mass immigration :P
06:21:18*goffa lives in montana
06:21:26 Quit pagefault ("Leaving")
06:21:58goffaintertube... hadn't heard that until Sen stevens decided to enlighten us about the workings of it
06:22:01jhMikeSthey just want to keep us trapped here and let the mexicans in
06:22:04 Join pagefault [0] (n=pagefaul@pdpc/supporter/active/pagefault)
06:22:30goffait is kind of funny reading the reports.. you'd be amazed at how many mexicans they deport up here
06:23:36jhMikeSdidn't know they deported many at all atm or does Canada deport them to the US? :P
06:23:46goffaha ha ha
06:23:49goffamaybe that's it
06:24:31goffaamazing how easy it is to get into canada... i actually like it that way
06:25:11goffacoming back is harder ... although i'm on a first name basis with most of them at the port i go through
06:25:37jhMikeSsame thing for going to the carribean now...will need a passport to get back in 2007
06:25:53goffausually have to answer more computer questions than .. the typical "got any booze, drugs, ammo, or anything else that's fun?"
06:26:20goffayeah.. that passport thing is bullshit... they need to repeal that
06:26:25jhMikeScomputer questions?
06:26:39goffayeah.. i'm a computer tech.. and we aren't very populated
06:26:55jhMikeSare you carrying any encryption algorithms?
06:26:56goffaso.. they ask me about their machines
06:27:24goffalike i can't print .. i'm loaded with spyware .. etc
06:27:28jhMikeSthe border guards do? that's funny
06:27:38goffayeah
06:27:50goffausually after the stuff they are required to ask
06:28:06goffawhile they are running your I.D.
06:28:08jhMikeSif you let me deliver these drugs I'll help you ;)
06:28:16goffaha ha ha
06:28:30goffai know them well.. but you never want to joke at the border
06:28:58goffaunless you want a white glove up your ass or your car taken apart
06:29:14jhMikeSone of my friend's mother was a border guard
06:29:21goffaa friend of mine went up one time .. was being a wise-ass
06:29:26Nimdaehahaha, someone attacked one of our servers with a smurf attack
06:29:36goffawow.. nostalgia
06:29:41Nimdaeno kidding
06:29:57goffahope you aren't running windows 95 for a server.. lol
06:29:58Nimdaesome script kiddie is like "ooo, what is this? must be new, lets try it out!"
06:30:12goffaland them back
06:30:17goffaor better yet.. panther
06:30:19goffahe he he
06:30:23Nimdaei think about 70% of the servers here are unix
06:30:39jhMikeSdamn, got red gotta fix that
06:33:12Nimdaei bet if i put snort on my server here with default filters, i'd still find winnuke being detected
06:33:18 Join WalterEgo [0] (n=noneofye@modemcable156.246-82-70.mc.videotron.ca)
06:33:27goffaprobably
06:38:52lostlogicjhMikeS: damn you for artifically inflating my score.
06:39:14jhMikeShehe...gonna fix it now
06:39:28lostlogic:)
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06:43:01jhMikeScvs up is slow while a build is in progress
06:43:25WalterEgoThere's one thing I don't really understand about coding C for rockbox.. Does rockbox use a very small subset of c (that's what I currently believe) or rather it overloads a few important functions and the rest of the regular functions are accessible..? Say, are time() and strftime() useable or do I need to dig in the source for an equivalent (or confirmation that it doesn't exist)...?
06:43:41WalterEgoI'm asking just so I know what kind of learning experience I'm getting into.. :p
06:43:47lostlogicWalterEgo: rockbox is in C.
06:43:51lostlogicWalterEgo: it does _not_ have a full stdlib
06:43:56lostlogicwhich is what many people consider to be 'C'
06:44:18WalterEgoahhh... Like unknowledgeable me did, up to a moment ago..
06:44:22thegeekit does not use many of the libraries often associated with C though, right?
06:44:26lostlogic;)
06:45:43WalterEgookay, so fulltext searches into the source will be my new hobby.. That and browsing my french-english dict. so I know what words to actually search for.
06:45:58WalterEgoThanks, at least I have a better idea of the direction I'm going :)
06:45:59lostlogicC itself doesn't _do_ much, the stdlib provided by glibc does all kinds of stuff, and the subset of those things that glibc does that are practical / useful / have been needed in rockbox are implemented in rockbox as well.
06:47:02lostlogicWalterEgo: better than a full text search would be to use ctags or an IDE that will simply tell you what functions are available and what parameters they take based on the source, without you having to manually search each time.
06:48:58WalterEgoMakes sense.
06:50:36WalterEgoI guess best IDE I'll find in a full debian or whatever install rather than some cygwin or such...? Installation seems easier for cygwin or vmware (there are plenty of tutorials on the wiki) than on linux though..
06:51:04lostlogicWalterEgo: do you already run linux somewhere?
06:51:07WalterEgo..but once that is done, I guess it would make for a more comfortable dev. environment..
06:51:30WalterEgoI already did.. But for php/web dev, not real programming.
06:51:42WalterEgoLost my install when my hd crashed..
06:51:55WalterEgoMiss it ever since but been a bit lazy :p
06:52:22lostlogic*nod* you can actually use a windows IDE to develop code that you will compile from vmware or cygwin, not sure exactly how to set it up though, because I've not used windows in many a moon.
06:52:46lostlogic(nor an IDE)
06:53:22WalterEgolol... I see. I guess when you get comfortable with the code, anything even vi could be adequate... well, maybe NOT vi. :p
06:53:47 Quit elljay ("leaving")
06:53:51lostlogic"even vi"?
06:53:54lostlogicyou are truly a newb :)
06:54:08thegeeka really nice opensource c/c++ editor is code::blocks
06:54:09WalterEgoI am, true..
06:54:09lostlogicI do all of my coding, both professional and hobby in vim.
06:54:23thegeekI've tested a lot of different editors
06:54:27thegeekand it's really excellent
06:54:39lostlogicthegeek: does it support ctags or another quick navigation type feature?
06:54:44thegeeklots of good features without all the bloat of the giants(visual studio)
06:54:56thegeeknot sure
06:55:08thegeeknever really had use for anything like that
06:55:25lostlogicthegeek: sure you have, you just haven't noticed that you were missing it ;)
06:55:26thegeekI only work on my own code so I tend to know it pretty well;P
06:55:29lostlogicahh
06:55:30jhMikeShmmm...build is taking it's sweet time to start again
06:55:30lostlogicnvm
06:55:30thegeekhehe
06:55:31lostlogic:)
06:55:33thegeek;)
06:55:52WalterEgocool, I'll have a look at that. As long as I get syntax coloring and some (can't remember the word.. alignement with tabs) anyway, I'm comfortable. Well I was for coding simple php..
06:55:53lostlogicjhMikeS: hopefully it'll catch my warning fixes in the same build then
06:56:03WalterEgoI do need some sort of IDE so search through functions though, that's true.
06:56:28lostlogicWalterEgo: vim with ctags provides that, but the learning curve is probably too high _just yet_ ;)
06:56:46WalterEgoheh... I'll put it on the back burner. :)
06:57:10lostlogicanother C IDE that I have used in the past in linux is anjuta −− seemed pretty decent, but a bit unpolished, but it did have coloring, code completion and all of the necessary features.
06:57:21WalterEgoAnd I'll try the K-something-or-something-else IDE that comes with Knoppix while waiting for science to infuse myself.. :p
06:57:42jhMikeSit's talking a really looooooong time ... longest I've seen so far
06:57:52lostlogicjhMikeS: wonder if it's 'stuck'
06:57:58***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
06:59:06jhMikeSdon't know but it took it's sweet time once yesterday too. is it about daily build time?
07:00
07:00:06WalterEgoOn a VERY different matter... What kind of information could end user like meself provide to the nice chaps trying to optimize the iriver H10? Are battery bench any usefull for anything else than calibrating the charge indicator?
07:00:33lostlogicgenerally not
07:01:03lostlogicWalterEgo: for now, I think patience is in order until dan_a gets the cop running properly on the PP chips.
07:01:18lostlogic(or anyone else)
07:01:34*goffa hands the cop a donut.. that should do it
07:01:44*goffa couldn't resist
07:01:54jhMikeSlooks stuck indeed
07:01:57WalterEgotrue enough, that would certainly ease up certain operations.
07:02:37lostlogicz.
07:02:55WalterEgoAre the daily builds compiled from some cron tabbed cgi on the web server?
07:03:27WalterEgoI guess so, none would be crazy enough to compile and upload each and every day.. Silly question, sry.
07:07:16WalterEgoOkay, thanks... Off to bed I'll dream of electric sheeps.
07:07:30 Quit WalterEgo ()
07:09:06 Part BlackHoleOfCode
07:21:33 Quit rotator ("zzzzzzzzzz")
07:22:26BHSPitLappydamnit, goffa
07:22:33BHSPitLappyyou got me craving doughnuts
07:24:00 Part jhMikeS
07:30:07goffa:)
07:31:22amiconnmorning
07:31:32goffa30 mins until then :)
07:31:36goffahere nayway
07:31:49amiconn7:30 am here
07:36:12 Part Paul_the_Nerd
07:37:07amiconnhrmph. Now the power thread mess is bigger than before :(
07:38:18goffathat's no good
07:39:48amiconn...and it adds almost one KB to the recorder build, while the recorder has batteries where we don'─t want low battery shutdown.:( I wonder why...
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09:01:05Nimdae_i know we're into keeping our music acquisition habits legit, but this may interest you: http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=35669
09:01:08Nimdae_;)
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10:54:17JdGordonhey all
10:56:03thePianoManhmm pretty quiet around here, only been two lines since 5:50 (AEDST)
10:56:21JdGordonmost of the desvs are in europe
10:56:22thePianoMan3hrs
10:56:27thePianoManyeah i guess so
10:56:33JdGordonand its saturday morning there...
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11:00:13thePianoManhow's the settings stuff going, JdGordon?
11:00:42JdGordonhit a wall... but exams have just finished, so im gong to get it going again, hopefully soon
11:01:27thePianoManI haven't started exams yet :( I reckon i might start looking at some comments and stuff after exams
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12:47:57blueti'm going to but a music player soon, any recommendations?
12:48:07Bagderone that runs Rockbox! ;-)
12:48:11Kohlrabiyep
12:48:14bluetof course
12:48:28KohlrabiI like my h120
12:48:44bluetcan't get that one here
12:48:48Kohlrabiit had a...leather case already
12:48:52Kohlrabiyep
12:48:52blueti think
12:48:57Kohlrabiit's out of production iirc
12:49:04Kohlrabitry H10
12:49:06KohlrabiI like iRIver
12:49:08blueti've looked at the e10
12:49:14Kohlrabisomeone else might tell you Apple rocks
12:49:18KohlrabiI mean
12:49:19bluetnice, but only has 6 GB
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12:49:24Kohlrabiit's personal preference
12:49:49bluetipods are nice in one way
12:49:54Bagderrockbox doesn't run on the e10
12:50:01bluetwill it ever?
12:50:11Bagderperhaps, but don't count on it
12:50:16bluethmm
12:50:19rasherYou might be interested in an Iaudio X5
12:50:25bluetthen i've looked at the x5
12:50:27bluetyeah
12:50:43bluetbut it has the headphone thingy on the side
12:51:01KohlrabiWell
12:51:08bluetthat could be annoying with a jack/minijack adaptor
12:51:13KohlrabiOne thing I would reconsider is the amount of HD-space
12:51:19KohlrabiI rarely need the 20GB
12:51:38bluet6 GB is too little imo
12:51:43Kohlrabihmm
12:51:44Kohlrabiyeah
12:51:48KohlrabiThe nice thing is
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12:51:56KohlrabiYOu can put data on a 20gb
12:52:00Kohlrabilike movies and stuff
12:52:15KohlrabiBut I already have a 500gig external HD ;)
12:52:16bluetsure
12:52:23Kohlrabiso I don't need that :)
12:52:28bluetme neither
12:52:38KohlrabiAnd for music I don't need 20gig
12:52:50KohlrabiI don't need whole discographies
12:52:57bluetmy music collection on my computer is 19 gigs now
12:53:00Kohlrabioh
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12:53:06Kohlrabik :)
12:53:09blueti want discographies
12:53:13blueta lot of flac
12:53:22KohlrabiI don't need discographies on my portable
12:53:48KohlrabiI myself have lots of discopgraphies compressed losslessly on the external drive
12:53:51blueti don't think i _need_ them either, but it'd be nice
12:53:53Kohlrabibut not on the H120
12:53:58KohlrabiI use vorbis on that
12:54:12bluetwhat bitrate?
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12:54:46Kohlrabihmm
12:54:48Kohlrabiq7
12:54:54KohlrabiBut I consider going for q4-5
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12:55:02bluetq?
12:55:06bluetah
12:55:10Kohlrabivorbis isnt about bitrae
12:55:12Kohlrabierr
12:55:13bluetthough you meant a player
12:55:48KohlrabiI used q7 on my PC before I had enough space to store lossless audio
12:55:56KohlrabiSo I still use the q7 oggs
12:56:03KohlrabiBut it's overkill for portable
12:56:18bluetoh?
12:56:39Kohlrabiwell
12:56:48Kohlrabiq7 is transparent on my home audio system
12:56:53Kohlrabiwhich isnt top class
12:57:01Kohlrabibut still better than the portable
12:57:11Kohlrabiso q4-5 should be transparent on the H120
12:57:40bluethmm
12:57:58Kohlrabierrr
12:58:00Kohlrabiwell
12:58:02Kohlrabinot transparent
12:58:06***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
12:58:07Kohlrabibut enough :)
12:58:24bluetwhat about the x5?
12:58:28Kohlrabidunno
12:58:36bluetbetter sound wuality you think?
12:58:38bluetquality
12:58:39KohlrabiI think q4-5 is enough for any portable
12:59:14Kohlrabithough, you still can use wavpack/flac on your rockbox-portable :)
12:59:18bluetcan rockbox play modules?
12:59:22Kohlrabi.mod?
12:59:29Kohlrabihmm, I don't think so
12:59:33bluetdamn
12:59:34Kohlrabicheck the website though
12:59:48bluetmy pda can :)
12:59:52Kohlrabinice
12:59:53Kohlrabi:)
12:59:59bluetbut tha battery doesn't last very long
13:00
13:00:09rasherThere's a patch
13:00:52PaulJambluet: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/5241
13:02:16bluetcool
13:02:49bluetKohlrabi: what headohones do you have?
13:03:52Kohlrabipanasonic
13:03:58Kohlrabidont know the number
13:04:08bluetare they good?
13:04:14Kohlrabismall enough to stuff in the pocket
13:04:20bluetah
13:04:34bluetfoldable then?
13:04:36Kohlrabibut not these stick-in-the-ear-things
13:05:05blueti've got koss the plug
13:05:09bluetthey suck
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13:07:19Kohlrabihttp://shop.panasonic.co.uk/invt/rphs9e
13:07:25Kohlrabisame kind of headphones
13:07:32Kohlrabibut different design
13:08:45Kohlrabismall, but still cover the ear, though not fully
13:09:04KohlrabiI find the stick-in-ear kind more tiresome
13:10:27bluetthey're not very comfortable
13:10:37bluetpage not found
13:11:00Kohlrabihmm
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13:11:06Kohlrabitrue
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13:11:11bluethey bluey-
13:11:16bluetcool nick
13:11:26Kohlrabi141666;_ylt=AkjmuyAuDWIAra0vR_bFW01hMI8C;_ylu=X3oDMTBuMjhlNG1sBF9zAzU3NjkwMzU3BGx0AzQEc2VjA3Ny?clink=dmss//ctx=sc:cheadphone,c:cheadphone,mid:59,pid:1994141666,pdid:59,pos:13
13:11:29Kohlrabiargh
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13:11:41Kohlrabisorry
13:11:49bluey-=)
13:12:26bluetah
13:12:40blueti've seen thode i think
13:12:43bluetthose
13:13:26bluetare they heavy?
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13:15:46Kohlrabihmm
13:15:51Kohlrabino
13:15:55Kohlrabifirst strange on the ear
13:16:00Kohlrabibut I like the sound
13:16:49bluethmm
13:17:08bluethow are they compared to sennheiser hd595?
13:17:12KohlrabiI have Sennheiser for home stereo
13:17:31Kohlrabiwell
13:17:38bluetwhat model?
13:17:44Kohlrabihd595 look like full-fledged headphones
13:17:51Kohlrabia cheap one
13:18:01Kohlrabi497
13:18:09bluetah
13:18:15KohlrabiI mainly use it to pracice bass in late hours ;)
13:18:22bluetthe silvery grey ones with mostly plastic?
13:18:25Kohlrabiyep
13:18:31Kohlrabigot them for like 15 bucks
13:18:33Kohlrabiat a sale
13:18:35blueta friend of mine has them
13:18:53bluetnot bad at all
13:19:26Kohlrabino
13:19:29Kohlrabitrue
13:20:43blueta lot of bass
13:21:29bluetmore than my 595s
13:21:58blueti think
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13:23:16*drippydonut takes the opposite approach and likes IEMs
13:23:25drippydonutbut I haven't been listening to much music at the moment
13:23:38drippydonutcos I got an ear infection and screwed up my right eardrum :(
13:23:53Kohlrabiugh :(
13:24:04drippydonutnice details :D
13:24:17bluetiems?
13:24:25drippydonutin eam monitors
13:24:32drippydonutshure e4s all the way for me
13:24:37bluethmm
13:24:49bluethow's the comfort?
13:25:01drippydonutvery good actually
13:25:30drippydonutespecially with the foamies or triple-flange sleeves
13:25:48drippydonutthe foam ones are a bit like foam earplugs
13:26:00bluetcool
13:26:02drippydonutthey squidge down and then expand
13:26:32bluethttp://www.prisguide.no/product.php?productId=17682 like this?
13:27:07drippydonutsorta
13:27:12drippydonutthey're the etymotics
13:27:18drippydonutmine are these...
13:27:18drippydonuthttp://www.generationmp3.com/bigfiles/Wildsurfer/Shure%20e4c/Shure%20e4c%2002.jpg
13:27:19blueti know
13:27:34bluetah, e4C
13:27:37bluetnot s
13:27:55drippydonutyea
13:28:01drippydonut"s" for plural
13:28:14bluetah
13:28:16drippydonutits really difficlut pluralising product names and acronyms
13:28:22drippydonut*difficult
13:28:25bluetyeah
13:28:32bluethyphens can work
13:28:58drippydonutI would like to get a pair of etymotics too, but being a skint teenager the e4-s where all I could afford
13:29:05drippydonutoh well, I'm really happy with them
13:29:15drippydonutapart from its a fiddle putting them away in the case :D
13:29:23bluet:
13:29:25bluet:)
13:29:31bluettried portapro?
13:29:40drippydonutnope
13:29:47blueti did once
13:30:03drippydonutI'll probably look to get some more in around july next year
13:30:06bluetthey're very popular around here
13:30:12drippydonutbefore I go off on my few weeks of travels
13:30:40drippydonutyey :D!
13:30:59drippydonutanyway, I really need to finish this damn essay :(
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13:31:31bluet:/
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13:31:50Gnelikhi!!!
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13:32:03DD_lurkingsorry, just had to register that nick :D
13:32:11bluetgood luck, matt
13:32:18bluetwith the essay
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13:47:31Bagderhttp://www.rockbox.org/since20060801.html
13:47:49Bagderfor those that think "since 2.5" is a bit too much
13:48:03n1syeah that took a while to load :-)
13:48:59n1sBagder: could there perhaps be a link next to the "since 2.5" on the frontpage?
13:49:08Bagdercoming right up
13:49:13n1snice
13:49:27Bagderthere
13:50:09Bagderthe title on the page is wrong, but it'll get fixed at next update
13:52:56peturquite a bit of activity lately
13:53:09Bagderindeed
13:53:11peturincluding some major changes
13:54:08rasherI tried to update MajorChanges yesterday, but may have missed some
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13:55:44peturthe question is, do we only mention major changes the user can see, or also internal changes that go unnoticed (except when they contained bugs ;) )
13:55:58Bagderthe oct 25 X5 change is missing
13:56:13rasherpetur: My vote is for the former
13:56:14BagderI'll add
13:56:41peturrasher: me too, as the internals are known to most devs
13:58:05bluebrotherBagder, how about some "changes in the last 4 weeks" or similar?
13:58:32Bagderyou mean instead, or in addition to this?
13:58:56Bagderit is dead simple to do
13:59:06bluebrothernot sure ... one idea would be to have "changes since 1st <month>" and crosslink them
13:59:28bluebrotheror additionally to have a like 4 weeks windows with all changes made in that time.
13:59:34Bagderok, I'll make a third page and then we can see how they "feel"
13:59:51bluebrotheror, perhaps, have a "window" page, a monthly page and a "all" page ;-)
14:00
14:00:38bluebrothergreat. since25 got quite long (and long to load too)
14:03:42bluebrotheron the MajorChanges topic: how about using icons to identify (a) new features, (b) internal fixes, (c) internal changes?
14:04:19Bagderhttp://www.rockbox.org/since-4weeks.html
14:04:32bluebrothersomething like this changelog page: http://home.gna.org/kvpnc/en/changelog.html
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14:05:53bluebrotherBagder, I like it.
14:06:10Bagderand now also as a link from the front page
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14:08:29*n1s thinks "Feature Requests" in the tracker should have been named "Brainstorm"...
14:09:50bluebrotherI'm still in favour of some tracker type for patches that won't go into Rockbox ... like "code snippets"
14:10:05Bagderyeah
14:10:11Bagdermakes sense
14:10:25bluebrotherso they don't get lost and it gets clear they won't get included.
14:12:06*bluebrother remembers that discussion of one patch that wasn't intended to get included and thus caused some confusion
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14:21:45bluebrotheris there a way I can see what shorthands are defined for twiki icons?
14:22:17rasherThere's a page..
14:22:17rashersomewhere
14:22:29rasherWhere they are defined
14:23:05rasherhttp://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/TWiki/TWikiVariables
14:23:17rasherhttp://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/TWiki/TWikiVariables#Frequently_Used_Preferences_Vari
14:23:48bluebrothernice, thanks.
14:24:03rasherhttp://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/TWiki/TWikiPreferences#Rendering_Shortcuts_Settings in fact is where they are defined
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14:25:26rasherIn fact, http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/TWiki/TWikiDocGraphics
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14:48:47bluebrotherok, added some icons to MajorChanges. I hope everyone likes it ... ;-)
14:52:31rasherlooks good
14:53:04rasherI'd put the description as a list
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15:00
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15:02:02rashern1s: putting FS#xxx (rather than the full url) in your comment is enough
15:03:14bluebrotherFS crosslinks FS#xxx in comments automatically. Would be nice if this was working for wiki names too.
15:03:31bluebrotheror on the cvs changes page.
15:03:41rasher'deed
15:15:01n1srasher, ok
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15:30:51Kingstonehello, anyone here knows about iTunesDB?
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15:37:33Kitt0shttp://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/ConvertiTunesDBtoTagCache
15:37:33Kitt0s?
15:37:49linuxstbKingstone: Ask your question, and you'll find out...
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15:52:25Kingstonei've seen in the iPL wiki about iTunesDB that there is a value in a song record (mhit) that states visibility of a song
15:52:35Kingstoneis this one known for a fact?
15:52:47Kingstonealso, does it work for all versions of iTunes?
15:53:35Kingstoneand another question, how do you add a playlist to iTunesDB? cause if i just add an mhyp to the playlists mhsd, it doesn't work
15:53:49 Quit Seed ("cu, Andre")
15:53:58Kingstoneit looks like there is something with the podcasts mhsd that involves here
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15:59:05linuxstbI don't think anyone here will know the itunesdb in that detail - Rockbox deliberately ignores it. You may get more luck trying to find developers from one of the itunes replacements, such as gtkpod.
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16:03:03kerbI just have a quick question, is there anywhere I can see what people play from my DAAP share? I'm curious :)
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16:11:01rasherkerb: What are you using to share with?
16:12:00kerbrhythmbox :)
16:12:28kerblol
16:12:34rasherI suggest asking them instead, then
16:12:34kerbmindslip :P
16:12:46kerbI use rockbox on my ipod and I joined the wrong channel :D
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16:38:14rasherrasher.dk/rockbox/people/">http://rasher.dk/rockbox/people/ is now less likely to kill your computer. But also less interactive (the google maps interface is still available though)
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16:39:18drizztbsdwhat is the state about ipod nano 2g?
16:39:39rasherdrizztbsd: I don't believe anyone is working on it with Rockbox in mind
16:39:48Soapdrizztbsd: - the Nano 2G is a long way from rockbox support.
16:39:54rasherWe're mostly hoping ipodlinux will drop something in our laps
16:40:24drizztbsduhm sigh :(
16:40:28SoapThe Nano 2G has next to nothing in common with the other ipods, it mght as well be the Zune, heck - more is known about the Zune than the 2G.
16:41:00drizztbsdperfect :/
16:41:21drizztbsdwhat is the maximum capacity of 1g?
16:41:25drizztbsd2g? 4g?
16:41:31drizztbsdgiga*
16:41:44rasher4gb
16:41:57drizztbsdk thx
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16:43:30Genre9mp3rasher: The map now is based on GRASS?
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16:44:23rasherGenre9mp3: Based on whatnow?
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16:45:22Genre9mp3rasher: The map reminded me this
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16:46:44rasherIt's simply using xplanet images that I create
16:47:54rasherThe images are by James Hastings-Trew. I should probably write that somewhere
16:48:02Genre9mp3ah ok..
16:48:20Genre9mp3For one minute I thought it was something like this: http://mapserver.gdf-hannover.de/grassusers/map.phtml?winwidth=890&winheight=630&language=1&mapwidth=600&mapheight=400
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16:50:24rasheroh christ, now I messed it up
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16:53:07PaulPositionWhere can I find Rockbox Coding guidelines (best practice..)? Right now I'm just toying around and learning some (acutally, lots) stuff, but if I sometime get serious about it I'll need some guides.. For example, should a plugin be built only with calls to the plugin api? If I needed to read time, should I just include the files I need or (that'd be stupid I think) hard copy them into my code?
16:53:41PaulPosition(note, last question is just example, don't go explaining it all..)
16:54:28rasherThere is a guidelines page in the wiki I believe, a search should find it
16:54:44rasherBut it says nothing about stuff like that
16:54:54PaulPositionrasher - oops. :p
16:55:09rasherPlugins only have what the plugin api (and plugin lib) gives them, basically
16:57:20PaulPositionMaybe I'm stupid (well, yes I am).. I don't know much about C yet.. Are files included in, say ABC.h de facto included in XYZ.h if the latter includes ABC ?
16:57:23Kingstonelinuxstb, do you know any irc channel for gtkpod?
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17:00:04linuxstbKingstone: No, sorry.
17:01:37linuxstbTheir mailing lists seem active though.
17:01:42PaulPositionKingstone - There's a #gtkpod channel on quakenet but there's only ony person or bot sitting in it, so it's no use for you.
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17:14:33Kingstoneok thanks
17:14:47Kingstoneis rockbox on GPL license?
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17:14:54SoulDeaDyes it is
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17:22:21Hunnybunnyhey, i blew my ipod nano after my rockbox-install ... anyone got time to answer questions?
17:23:00SoulDeaDwhat?s the condition of the ipod?
17:23:15Hunnybunnyits dead and not booting.
17:23:27SoulDeaDnot booting at all?
17:23:29SoulDeaDanything?
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17:23:42Hunnybunnynot at all nothing.
17:24:09SoulDeaDat least an apple logo?
17:24:44Hunnybunnythatd be the first time id be really happy with that apple-logo, but sadly no. no apple. no nothing.
17:24:56Hunnybunnyscreen stays blank.
17:24:58SoulDeaDhmmm
17:25:09oboHunnybunny: sounds like the battery has drained - try leaving it plugged into usb for 20-30 minutes, then hold menu+select to reboot it
17:25:24SoulDeaDok, let?s start from the begging
17:25:34Hunnybunnyobo: nope, i charged the battery
17:25:37SoulDeaDyou followed the instructions in the manual
17:25:53Hunnybunnyyes, everything worked until i connected to my pc
17:26:02SoulDeaDand then reboot and then nothing?
17:26:09SoulDeaDaha
17:26:23SoulDeaDsomebody remember how to start the rescue mode?
17:26:29oboholding menu+play
17:26:41obobut it needs to be booting for that to happen
17:26:45Hunnybunnythe ipod switched to the apple-firmware. i disconnected from the pc and the ipod showed: battery low and died
17:27:01SoulDeaDaha
17:27:02obohow did you charge it?
17:27:32Hunnybunnycharged by usb-charging from pc AND external (sorry, im german my english sucks ;)
17:27:48oboin rockbox, or diskmode?
17:28:30Hunnybunnywhat do you mean?
17:28:50rasherwhich state was the ipod in when you charged
17:28:52obowhen it was charging, was your ipod still in rockbox, or did you let it reboot into diskmode?
17:28:54SoulDeaDwas rockbox or original firmware running while you charged it?
17:28:56PaulPositionHunnyBunny - look at this thread, might help (particularly Step 2 about diskmode..) −−> http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=7184.0
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17:29:27Hunnybunnythe ipod was dead when i charged it - the light at the charger turned red, thats why i knew it was charging
17:29:59Hunnybunnypaul: nice link, thx, but the ipod is not booting so this wont help
17:30:34SoulDeaDtry holding menu while plugging the usb cable
17:30:53oboHunnybunny: it still sounds like the battery is completely flat
17:31:22SoulDeaDyou charged it with an external charger, not with the pc?
17:32:15Hunnybunnysouldead: sorry cant do it here, the ipod is at home :( and i charged it external and with the pc - i tried both - it was for at least 6 hours at the charging device
17:32:30SoulDeaDaha
17:32:41SoulDeaDand what was running, apple firmware of rockbox?
17:33:13PaulPositionsorry, I meant Step B (well 1b) not step 2..... TThe part abou holding menu+play for 7 seconds, and trying again, and again...
17:33:25Hunnybunnywhen it died it was running apple, cause itunes activated it and whn i disconnected the ipod from the pc it went dead
17:34:06SoulDeaDok, suggest plug the ipod to a computer with running itunes
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17:34:18My_Sichi
17:34:22SoulDeaDi use old version - 6.5
17:34:27SoulDeaDhi My_Sic
17:34:27obowhat difference would itunes make in that case???
17:34:40Hunnybunnyi plugged it to a pc running itunes and a apple running itunes...no reaction.
17:34:46SoulDeaDit might detect the ipod, i don?t know
17:34:59SoulDeaDmaybe make the usb to power the ipod with maximum power
17:35:09Hunnybunnydamn too bad i dont have the ipod with me :( paul, thx for the advice
17:36:02bluebrotherhmm. The recording trigger menu looks ... strange.
17:36:20bluebrothersettings are quite different than for all other menus.
17:37:13PaulPositionhunnybunny - That's okay, the iPod will be waiting for you and you'll probably in a more relaxed disposition when you get to try it.. ;)
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17:38:02Hunnybunnyill try the "push menu and center it until my fingers bleed"-thing when im at home :) hope it will help... and paul, ty, im trying to relax but my hangover is really hard on me today
17:38:56SoulDeaDHunnybunny there?s a chance that the battery will power a single boot when it relaxes
17:38:56PaulJamSlasheri: are you here?
17:40:47Hunnybunnyill try to meditate on my ipod, maybe that helps... its weird: now that i dont have it i really miss it ... ah, and rockbox is really fun, thank you for that
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17:41:25TerrorByteHi.
17:41:38TerrorByteI was reading the recent updates, and I saw this:
17:41:45TerrorByte"Added recording functions to plugin API per request of Thom Johansen. Cleaned up includes in plugin.c and grouped them a bit better in plugin.h while at it."
17:41:52TerrorByteWhat is that exactly?
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17:44:15TerrorByteAnyone?
17:44:35obohave you looked at the diffs?
17:44:41TerrorByteDiffs?
17:45:08TerrorByte???
17:45:09obohttp://www.rockbox.org/viewcvs.cgi/apps/plugin.c.diff?r1=1.191&r2=1.192
17:45:13SoulDeaDdifferences of two files stored in another
17:46:00TerrorByteI seriously don't get that.
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17:46:43TerrorByteCan you tell me what is meant by 'recording functions to plugin'??
17:47:09obothe green lines at the end - those functions are now available to any plugins that may need them
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17:47:49PaulPositionto plugin == to plugin API ..
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17:49:30Kingstonebasic CVS repository
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17:56:02GnelikStupid question: why dont rockbox dont have good color interface
17:56:21PaulPositiondefine 'good' (or ungood)
17:57:14SoulDeaDGnelik maybe you can design one?
17:57:15PaulPositionobo - since you seem to know a lot.. Is it bad practice, in a plugin, to call on functions that aren't listed in the plugin.h header file? Say, calls to time()..?
17:57:17Gnelik#define good "like iPodLinux" :)
17:57:55PaulPositionBecause it's not cattering to only one platform but more than 12 of them, some monochrome, others not so...
17:58:16oboPaulPosition: AFAIK the function needs to be in the API... but I'm not the best person to ask :)
17:58:22SoulDeaDthe rockbox interface is pretty good for me since i use it mostly to listen music.
17:58:59PaulPositionobo - okay, thanks. As of now, anyway, I'm too much of a newb to submit anything so I'll play around like I want, but when I get more comfortable I'll be asking. :p
17:59:12Genre9mp3Gnelik: What's wrong with the colour interface?
17:59:18oboit's easy enough to extent the API with anything you need
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17:59:34GnelikWhat player do you use on PC??
17:59:35bluebrotherfatal error: "like iPodLinux" is undefined. Stop.
17:59:44Genre9mp3bluebrother: haha
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18:00:07PaulPositionobo - I guess so, but hardcoding time_t structures and such when it is already part of the lib would be stupid.. :o
18:00:15GnelikPaulPosition Why dont you use console plauer?
18:00:20bluebrotherI have no idea how ipl looks like. I guess I also don't care.
18:00:41PaulPositionGnelik - Uh?? My rockboxed H10 looks nothing like a console.
18:00:46oboPaulPosition: what functions are you after?
18:01:03PaulPositionIs it the lack of antialised, prerendered menus items that make you sad?
18:01:30*bluebrother is tired of guessing what people mean
18:01:35PaulPositionobo - mostly time functions, but I'll have a look at the vcard plugin someone was working on and see how he did it anyway.. :)
18:02:55PaulPositionGnelik - Have you at least gone to WPS gallery and looked at some themes or is it you installed rockbox and started crying at the black/white default (and not so functional) screen?
18:03:04GnelikPaulPosition: nope
18:03:21bluebrotherhmm, I should have a look at the tarred themes thing again ...
18:03:35bluebrotherGnelik, http://www.rockbox-themes.org
18:03:59GnelikI looked at WPSs many times
18:04:18bluebrotherthen I really don't see your problem.
18:04:30bluebrotherrefining it may help ...
18:05:00GnelikPlease dont kill me, i shall not speak about iface again :)))
18:05:15SoulDeaD:)
18:05:19Kittt0sthis is great
18:06:53bluebrotherI prefer to actually understand what your issue is. Only asking why it isn't better doesn't give a clue what you are missing
18:07:21PaulPositionOh well, *my* rockbox's screen is set to turn off after 5 seconds so I couldn't care less if the guy sitting in face of my on the subway sees that I have supergreat cover-art or whatnot. At least Rockbox has great SOUND.
18:07:35PaulPosition"in front of me".. sry.
18:09:30Genre9mp3you can have "supergreat cover-art" with Rockbox, too though
18:09:35GnelikGood arguments
18:09:48PaulPositiontrue enough. :blush:
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18:14:56PaulPositionGnelik - I think bluebrother invited you to "...talk about iface again". :) Maybe state what kind of improvement you wished for, maybe it already exists and just hasn't been used yet by WPS makers?
18:16:40SlasheriPaulJam: now i am
18:18:18PaulPositionBarry - Are battery bench for H10 still usefull to you? Any other sort of data an end user could collect to help whatever it is you're fiddling with on that target (if you're still playing around with it, that is)?
18:19:15PaulJamSlasheri: i have two questions concerning tagcache: 1. is it a known problem that when using the random folder function, after the change to another folder the rating and playcount of the first track is not available in the wps? (i havent tried this yet with an unmodified build)
18:20:03Slasherihmm, interesting.. i haven't used that feature yet but it sounds like a problem with the playback engine
18:21:58Slasheriat least that doesn't seem to occur when just "normally" playing files
18:22:02PaulJamand 2. in my tagnavi_custom.config i have used the format string '"%s [%s] %s" artist album title' but the results are sorted by title (i expected them to be sorted by artist). does the sorting only work for title and numeric values?
18:22:52Slasheridoes that format string work in otherwise ok?
18:23:50Slasheriyou need to make sure directory buffer size is large enough to hold all files on the player
18:23:55Slasheriotherwise sorting cannot be done
18:24:31PaulJamoh, that could be the problem.
18:25:19Slasheriand formatting works only for non-unique tags (title and filename, possible numeric tags also)
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18:25:58Slasherior that is when you can include references to other tags
18:26:07barrywardellPaulPosition: i have some battery bench data already. have you noticed the battery being inaccurate at all?
18:27:11barrywardellthere's also the problem that the readings we're getting for the battery voltage are quite jumpy. to fix that we need to work out how to use the ADC better
18:28:05PaulJamhmm, dir buffer is set to 3000 (with ~2700 files on the device)
18:28:31SlasheriPaulJam: hmm, can you paste the formatting entry and menu entry of your config file?
18:28:38PaulPositionbarry - nope no specific battery problem, just inquiring how a non-programming type like myself could maybe help by testing stuff. But I gotta go now, I'll re-read your thread at misticriver, might give me some idea.
18:28:43PaulPositionWell, see y'all.
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18:29:51PaulJam%format "fmt_test1" "%s [%s] %s" artist album title
18:30:04PaulJam"test1" -> title = "fmt_test1"
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18:31:30SlasheriPaulJam: hmm, wierd.. that might be a bug, just a moment
18:33:40SlasheriPaulJam: yep, it's a bug.. currently sorting is not enabled for the first level when you enter to a menu because tagtree assumes tagcache has already sorted the first index
18:34:36PaulJamok
18:35:06SlasheriPaulJam: i am not sure what is the best way to fix that. You can add one clause to the entry that does nothing
18:35:11Slasheriit should fix it also
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18:39:55SlasheriPaulJam: try adding %sort = "normal" to the format string and update to the newest build
18:40:01Slasherithat should fix it..
18:40:19Slasherijust committed an option to force the sorting
18:40:28PaulJamok, i'll try that.
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19:01:34PaulJamseems to work now, thank you
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19:20:44preglowlostlogic: so, any caveats about the new scheduler boost thing?
19:21:39lostlogicpreglow: not really −− any thread may boost, and when that thread sleeps, (if no other thread was boosted) the scheduler unboosts the CPU
19:26:32lostlogicI guess the caveat is what counts as a sleep −− a timed block or a sleep is a sleep. a forever block _is not_ so a thread can wait on IO or similar blocking operations without a timeout but keep boosted.
19:30:53pregloweh
19:31:00preglowis that intentional? sounds pretty stupid
19:37:52obois it possible to stop the hard drive from spinning up in the ipod bootloader, before ata_init() is called?
19:38:38preglowobo: anything more happened with the piezo patch?
19:39:21obono - I don't know what to do with it... it sounds pretty awful without using the timer - ticks just aren't short enough
19:40:13lostlogicpreglow: yes, intentional −− indefinite waits can be something like a read(), in which case you don't want to be toggling the boost on each side of the read or anything dumb like that
19:40:46lostlogicpreglow: any wait which may never return should be timed, and would thereby de-boost
19:41:04Paul_the_Nerdobo: Since the iPod Bootloader is a file loaded from disk, doesn't the disk *have* to spin up just to load the bootloader?
19:41:34Slasheriobo: hmm, maybe the second core can be used to generate piezo sounds, for example?
19:41:40oboPaul_the_Nerd: yes, your right, of course... doh!
19:42:20lostlogichas there been any word from dan_a about why his threads wouldn't start on the 2nd core?
19:43:17oboSlasheri: I don't understand how that would help??
19:44:08Slasheriobo: then we can do very small delays with simple delay loops
19:44:19Slasheriand that would not have impact on playback performance
19:45:14obosomething like udelay()? that could be a way around it
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19:45:24preglowanyway, using the user timer for piezo is pretty much out of the question
19:45:32preglowand a tick long piezo beep is better than no beep├ą
19:45:43preglowi made it sound pretty decent anyway
19:45:44Slasheriobo: yes, exactly. Someething not involving any system/kernel calls
19:46:15obopreglow: it sounded like a bag full of something nasty when I tried :)
19:47:15preglowthe api should stay the same anyway, i'm in favour of gutting out the user timer code and commiting it
19:47:18Slasheriobo: using the second core, it's practically possible to generate almost anything from the piezo
19:47:21preglowthen we can do something fancy in time
19:47:24obopreglow: I also need to do something with the queues - they're going to overflow like mad at the moment with the wheell
19:47:31Slasherieven put some music coming out of it if one desires :D
19:47:42obomidi piezo? ;)
19:47:51 Quit damaki_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
19:48:12Slasherifor example, or playing back the current song from the piezo.. not very high quality but should be possible ;)
19:49:25Slasherijust writing a variable frequency pwm audio driver ;)
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19:53:20preglowsure
19:53:26preglowpeople did that all the time in old pc stuff
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19:57:57SoapThe forums aren't really a proper place to discuss RMAA test results of basic DAP performance (as compared to OF vs. Rockbox). Would adding a wiki page for them be ok, or too far off topic?
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19:58:46Paul_the_NerdFor OF vs RB, a Wiki page is exactly appropriate
19:59:04SoapI didn't explain myself well, I grok that,
19:59:12Paul_the_NerdFor overall DAP performance, which firmware would you test in?
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20:00:06SoapI'm curious about the low-impedance problem with the ipods, and was going to do a set of RMAA test with various loads, and wondered if posting those tests in the wiki were too far off-topic.
20:00:44Paul_the_NerdIf you're just testing the hardware itself, as long as *all* tests are done in Rockbox, that's fine I'd say.
20:00:57Paul_the_NerdIt'd be nice to know the sonic merits and flaws of any given hardware under Rockbox, I think
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21:00
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21:17:16*petur wonders how iriver detects usbotg device plugin. Through the controller or through a GPIO connection
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21:19:06peturamiconn: did you add more info to your ida pro database (regarding usbotg)? I lost my edited copy in a disk crash :(
21:19:32XavierGrpetur: another disk crash?
21:19:34 Quit Seed ("cu, Andre")
21:19:41peturno, still the same one
21:19:47peturone is enough
21:20:45peturbut it contained all my rockbox stuff, I just found out that includes my ida pro database of the h340 firmware :(
21:23:02Nimdaemahna mahna
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21:25:50*petur slaps Nimdae around a bit with a pink cow
21:27:26Nimdaeooo a PINK cow
21:27:30Nimdaeoh crap
21:27:35Nimdaei didn't take my medication yesterday
21:27:38*goffa wonders what breed is pink
21:28:13goffaoh.. wait.. the kind that make strawberry quick
21:28:40zemmm, strawberry cows
21:28:59zedo they have fruity beef?
21:29:10*goffa wonders
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21:29:58Nimdaeok, i've finally decided that i want a tattoo, i've decided what i want it to be and where to put it
21:30:22goffaback side of an elephant around your belly button?
21:30:23Nimdaea smiley face on my palm
21:30:31goffalol
21:30:59*goffa saw the elephant one in a movie .. dirty carnival i believe
21:31:08Nimdaei've seen variations on that
21:31:14Nimdaelike a cow
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21:31:24Nimdaeand goatse
21:31:39goffaew
21:32:10Nimdaehttp://www.davesdaily.com/pictures/145-monkeytattoo.htm
21:32:32goffai like the guy that came up with the idea of a $100 bill on his unit...
21:33:01goffahe could watch his money grow... and every time his wife wanted to blow $100, he knew where to direct her
21:33:33Nimdaelol
21:33:34goffathat's about what theelephant looked like
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21:38:01*goffa crosses fingers while awaiting the results of mmmm's patch
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21:42:30goffahmm... shows up.. doesn't seem to work :(
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21:44:18goffatime to see if i applied the right patch
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21:49:11Spidahow many pixels does the display of the iriver H3X0 have?
21:49:22Spida320x240?
21:49:33Genre9mp3220x176
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21:59:45goffaah... i see my problem.. rtf-post
22:00
22:05:50Spidathx
22:05:53 Part Spida
22:07:51goffalol.. anyone feeling altruistic? i'd like to get rubberglove's patch working on the x5 ...http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/2653
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22:25:59peturgoffa: read the comment from mmmm (18 september)
22:34:01goffayeah.. he did it for the h140
22:34:15goffai'm playing with the x5 keymap.. but i'm not a programmer
22:34:27goffaso this could get interesting .. even if it is *simple*
22:34:38peturit's one way of becoming one ;)
22:34:46goffatrue
22:35:03goffanot the easy way.. lol.. but its a way
22:35:21goffathen again.. if there was an easy way.. i'd just spend an evening and do it
22:35:49SoulDeaDgoffa
22:35:56SoulDeaDther?s no easy way
22:36:02SoulDeaDeverything is hard
22:36:07goffaSoulDeaD: that's what i was saying
22:36:48SoulDeaD:)
22:37:16SoulDeaDi say that there?s no such thing as ?the easy way?
22:37:35SoulDeaD:)
22:37:56goffayeah.. that's why i'm not a programmer after reading the back cover of sam's teach yourself c in 30 seconds
22:38:23goffai've tried sleeping with my head on the book.. osmosis didn't seem to help
22:38:25goffahe he he
22:38:47goffagoing to try the "C pill" next
22:39:02SoulDeaD:)
22:40:04peturgoffa: you only need to edit keymap-x5.c and add the ACTION_TREE_INSERT entry as it is done for keymap-h1x0_h3x0.c. The fiels are in /apps/keymaps/
22:40:14goffayeah..
22:40:18goffathat's what i'm trying
22:40:22peturs/fiels/files
22:40:30goffagoing to boot the player now to see if it worked
22:40:34SoulDeaDgoffa don?t listen to him
22:40:41SoulDeaDtry "C pill"
22:40:42SoulDeaD:)
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22:41:20goffai think it worked
22:41:27SoulDeaDcool :)
22:41:39goffanow to southern engineer my first patch.. lol
22:42:24JoeTerminiyo guys, when i use the
22:42:27goffai didn't play with the remote.. because .. well.. i don't have one
22:43:06JoeTerminiwhen i use the "make" command when i try to compile, i get a ton of errors about clock skews. Any ideas?
22:43:27SoulDeaDmake clean
22:43:31SoulDeaDreconfigure
22:43:34SoulDeaDmake again
22:43:53JoeTerminii tried that
22:44:01JoeTerminiwait, reconfigure?
22:44:08peturJoeTermini: the files are on a FAT partition?
22:44:14SoulDeaDrun tools/configure again
22:44:15JoeTerminiyes
22:44:17SoulDeaDthat?s what i mean
22:44:18JoeTerminioh
22:44:20JoeTerminiyeah i did that
22:44:30JoeTerminiyeah i did that
22:44:31SoulDeaDdo you use cvs sources?
22:44:33JoeTerminiyes
22:44:46SoulDeaDwhat target?
22:44:55JoeTerminiwhat do you mean
22:45:03peturFAT only has a 2 second resolution... got an NTFS or other partition somewhere?
22:45:08SoulDeaDwhich device do you build for
22:45:17Bagderthat doesn't matter
22:45:25peturor maybe you need a more recent make?
22:45:39JoeTerminiipod 5g
22:45:45*petur tries to remember the discussion from some days ago
22:45:53SoulDeaDjust a sec
22:45:58JoeTerminik
22:45:59SoulDeaDi?l try with my sources
22:46:19Bagderthe key is FAT and some specific make version iirc
22:46:27peturmake -v
22:46:52SoulDeaDJoeTermini ipod video, right?
22:46:56JoeTerminiyes
22:47:31peturJoeTermini: what version does make-v say?
22:47:34JoeTerminiwith the make -v command, i got GNU make 3.81
22:47:47oboany way to use .LOW_RESOLUTION_TIME?
22:47:57JoeTermini?
22:48:18JoeTerminimake -v also says "built for i686-pc-cygwin"
22:48:29SoulDeaD3.81 is ok
22:48:31SoulDeaDi use that
22:48:48peturJoeTermini: only got FAT partitions?
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22:50:37goffauh oh... the world will never be the same, i just upped my patch
22:50:45goffafirst ever
22:50:54BHSPitLappyoops.
22:51:35*goffa googles for "C pill"
22:52:00peturamiconn: did you add lot of info to your h300 ida pro file regarding isp1362?
22:52:39SoulDeaDgoffa, greetings
22:53:02SoulDeaDi am a professional programmer and still don?t have one
22:53:04SoulDeaD:)
22:54:18*goffa wonders if he takes 3 will that make him well versed in c++
22:54:38SoulDeaDhaha
22:54:43SoulDeaDmaybe :)
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22:56:51goffashit!!!!
22:57:11peturnot here please ;)
22:57:18goffamy cat chewed up my e5c cord
22:58:20***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:58:44SoulDeaDthat?s why i don?t have one....
22:59:16goffai didn't want one... long story.. but my sister broke up with her boyfriend... i wound up with the cat
22:59:38SoulDeaDhahaha
22:59:39SoulDeaDnice
22:59:55SoulDeaDjust keep it away from you things
23:00
23:00:05SoulDeaDether the cat or the things :)
23:02:46goffaguess so.. the cat has never bothered my stuff before
23:02:58goffawondering if i can get shure to repair them
23:03:13SoulDeaDwhat?s e5c?
23:03:20blueti bet that's why you got it
23:04:34 Quit JoeyBorn ("Leaving")
23:04:34*SoulDeaD goodnight all
23:04:47goffashure e5c are canalphones
23:04:52goffalike $350
23:05:05rasherWell, audio coords are not exactly rocket science (despite what some people would like to have you believe)
23:05:41*petur knows people who spend a lot of money on speaker cable
23:05:42goffai know.. but when you have a $350 pair of phones you don't exactly want a spliced-together piece of shit
23:05:46*Genre9mp3 agrees with rasher
23:06:26rashergoffa: True, but if that's the only option (ie. Shure won't fix them), it's not the end of the world
23:06:59goffayeah.. i know
23:07:03goffawas contemplating upgrading too
23:07:04rasherpetur: Do you punch your friends a lot?
23:07:16goffajust didn't want to do it right now
23:07:17rasherWait, you didn't refer to them as friends.
23:07:23goffaif you know what i mean
23:07:26peturrasher: no never, why?
23:07:48rasherpetur: I would, if they spent a lot of money on speaker cable
23:08:01rasherUnless they were setting up a recording studio or something
23:08:25peturthey're audio freaks (got a room in the house with tilted ceiling,...
23:08:47rasherMaybe you should sell them some cable elevators
23:09:29rasherhttp://www.whiprush.org/2006/02/better_sound_th.html
23:09:53 Quit nudelyn (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:10:01peturlol
23:10:25rasherThe link at the bottom is priceless
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23:11:03rasherThis is great. $9,000 for speaker cable? Apparently, these cables measure well in 'articulation response', and balance the 'holy trinity' of electrical properties. For $9,000, I would certainly expect my cables to 'measure well', even in ways which no-one has heard of before. I'm not even sure I'd pay that kind of money for the holy trinity. All three of 'em. In one room.
23:11:04goffawish i had the link.. i saw a site that was selling "true audiophile gear" wooden knobs were like $10,000
23:11:34Genre9mp3audiofools....
23:11:55bluetI was skeptical just like you, but now I can hear all my sound haze free. I'm especially impressed with the porcelain isolator technology and the non-conductive glaze. I'll never let my cable touch the floor again, I had no idea how much sound the floor can absorb.
23:11:56rasherhttp://www.referenceaudiomods.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=NOB_C37_C
23:12:14rashergoffa: It's a steal at only $485
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23:12:35ender`goffa: didn't dan's data link to that?
23:12:37rexcan u use rockbox on creative zen
23:12:46rasherrex: Nope
23:12:48goffalol.. that's cheap rasher
23:12:57goffaender`: i think so
23:13:01Bagderyou can store the rockbox zip on the zen's disk, but that's about all ;)
23:13:20rexo
23:13:24rexthnx
23:13:25goffai was going to get new headphones.. i think i'll get a wooden knob instead
23:13:28goffa:)
23:14:21rasherOh wait, you need two
23:14:35rasherSo that's $970
23:14:43goffayeah.. in case the sonic qualites of the one goes bad
23:14:47goffaie my cat eats it
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23:15:05peturone will do, just bang it on the head hard enough and you'll hear some very special sounds
23:15:14rashergoffa: No, it's for the $3780 volume control box which needs two knobs
23:15:47rasherAlso fits the $6820 volume control box.
23:17:13goffapfft
23:17:14rasherI'm amazed that a) there are people who would buy this b) these people are capable of doing anything but drool om themselves
23:17:21*petur whispers something about a fool and his money...
23:17:46goffayeah.. i'm with peter
23:17:53goffai'm in the wrong rackett
23:18:57goffasent the message off... told them about the cat, asked how much it would be to repair... then asked if they had a trade in/upgrade policy
23:19:07goffaguessing probably too much to repair.. and no
23:21:23goffaat least i have my ety's to fall back on
23:21:30amiconnpetur: Only very little, if anything
23:21:43Genre9mp3rasher... thanks for the priceless link! :)
23:21:51goffalol
23:21:53peturamiconn: :(
23:22:06amiconnI don't deem this ida stuff too helpful.
23:22:23amiconnA simple disasm listing would do if done by a clueful disassembler
23:22:24goffai should find out who buys that.. i've got some extra-strength placebo's for them
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23:22:38rasherGenre9mp3: holy christ. I don't posses the words to describe how retarded that is
23:22:53amiconnAnyway, we have the chip docs, and we know how it's hooked up
23:23:07amiconnI don't think we need further help from the disassembly
23:23:20peturamiconn: it's that last thing I wonder about
23:23:59amiconnDisassembly is helpful for finding out low level stuff, but not for complex stuff like an usb stack
23:24:08peturthat Philips guy that's helping me a bit said it's not normal to connect ID to the microcontroller
23:24:50peturyou'd expect usb pin 4 (ID) is monitored. if not by isp1362, then maybe it's connected to a GPIO?
23:25:12peturwhich would explain why a device is detected immediately
23:25:34amiconnFor example, I found that chip select detail (setting SWE in the ide control regs) without the disassembly, but thorugh reading of the coldfire datasheet
23:25:42amiconn*thorough
23:25:57peturwe're not all that good ;)
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23:26:30amiconnThe disassembly is a lot of back & forth jumping. Almost looks like spaghetti
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23:26:47peturcompilers, eh?
23:27:26ipodfooSorry to butt in. Is it possible to get write permissions to edit the wiki? ive registered etc and noticed a few spellings on wiki. Cheers.
23:27:27amiconnWell, in fact I wonder why it's so spaghetti. At least the low-level driver routines look very unoptimised, almost like gcc -O0
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23:29:04goffaanyone know where the left to wps is?
23:29:13goffasearching the plugins not having much luck
23:29:18goffaer patches
23:30:22peturipodfoo: wiki name?
23:30:31ipodfooBillyBlair
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23:31:42peturipodfoo: done.
23:31:55ipodfoomany thanks petur.
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23:37:16ipodfooJust out of interest, do we stick with US english spelling or UK spelling for wiki?
23:37:30peturUK iirc
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23:39:12bluet"Although it is not yet fully understood scientifically, the phenomenon of "cable break-in" has been experienced by many audiophiles."
23:39:15bluetHmmm.
23:39:18bluet"Although it is not yet fully understood scientifically, the phenomenon of "gullibility" has been experienced by many audiophiles."
23:39:20bluethahah
23:40:11goffamy headphones experienced cable break in today
23:40:32Paul_the_Nerdbreak-in or just break?
23:40:42bluetis it fully understood scientifically?
23:40:43goffawell .... probably break
23:40:55bluetbreak-off
23:41:38midgey34barrywardell: i've got a patch for you
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23:44:32barrywardellmidgey34: great thanks. can you send it to me?
23:44:42amiconnpetur: Iiuc the ID bit just selects the default role of the isp1362. So iriver chose to control this from the cpu instead of the plug type
23:44:54midgey34barrywardell: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/6315
23:46:45barrywardelli'll test it in a few minutes, thanks
23:47:43midgey34all right, like i said in the comments, the hwcodec sims wont actually output any sound for me
23:49:06amiconnmidgey34: The hwcodec sims never actually played music
23:49:22amiconnThey only pretend to play and simulate some peak activity
23:49:33midgey34oh, well then good
23:49:38midgey34i didnt break anything :)
23:50:16amiconnThe playback in the swcodec sims is a post-addition that goes beyond the original purpose of the sims
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23:50:44amiconnIt used to be an UI simulator only (hence rockboxui)
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23:52:39theonehello
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23:53:28theoneDoes rockbox recharge the iRiver H340 without the AC adapter plugged in?
23:53:41theoneThat's what's happening.
23:54:02rasherThis sounds unlikely
23:54:10theoneBattery Voltage went from 3.40V to 3.86V
23:54:13Paul_the_Nerdtheone: You mean USB charging?
23:54:15rasherUnless you just discovered free energy, or I'm reading your question wrong
23:54:34theoneBasically I would run to a full charge, use it a coupel of hours and the unit just shuts off
23:54:51theoneI can try to power it on, but battery voltage is around 3.40-ish
23:54:59theoneand turns off while in the Rockbox logo screen
23:55:04barrywardellmidgey34: what's the purpose of removing the #include <sys/param.h>
23:55:05theoneI wait about 3 hours
23:55:12theonenow the battery is at 3.86V
23:55:28midgey34barrywardell: no point really, it just seemed unneeded, i sorta removed it on a whim
23:55:42theonethe battery indicator display went from really low to about 80% in other words
23:55:51midgey34it actually should propably be left in, since i dont really know its purpose
23:56:29theoneand when I say "wait", I mean just turn it off and leave it sitting without anything plugged in
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23:56:54voyeurhello
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23:57:09peturtheone: maybe the battery just recovered a bit - it's just chemicals you know
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23:57:26barrywardellmidgey34: it should probably be kept separate from your patch anyway
23:57:32midgey34true
23:57:37rashertheone: Any temperature changes?
23:57:56theoneoops I meant about 50% not 80%
23:58:08voyeuri wondered when a project is commited to releases and daily builds ?daily builds
23:58:17theonepetur & rasher, maybe...I was outside and it's around 40ish and inside it's around 70s
23:58:24theone(Fahrenheit)
23:58:34rasherThat might explain it
23:58:56barrywardellmidgey34: i wonder about those multiple definition warnings

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