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#rockbox log for 2006-12-19

00:00:33 Join MarcoPolo [0] (n=MarcoPol@virlet.rez-gif.supelec.fr)
00:02:03DerPhilwooow...
00:02:10 Quit MarcoPolo (Remote closed the connection)
00:02:16DerPhilcan i run apple os with the rockbox loader too?
00:02:20 Join MarcoPolo [0] (n=MarcoPol@virlet.rez-gif.supelec.fr)
00:02:26DerPapstsure
00:02:30DerPhilhow`?
00:02:46DerPapstflip the holdswitch on
00:02:52DerPapstwhile rebooting
00:03:30DerPhillol des find ich ma ne feine sache :D ganz unjompliziert
00:03:55DerPapst^^^
00:04:01DerPhilLoading original firmware...
00:04:07DerPhilsame prob as before with rockbox
00:04:11DerPhiloh sorry it just took a while
00:04:12DerPhil;)
00:04:30scorchedan_a: SYN
00:04:31DerPhilyeah thats the way i like it
00:04:32DerPhil:D
00:06:25DerPhilaaannnd...
00:06:36DerPapstwhat?
00:06:45DerPhilhow can i view album art?
00:06:59DerPapstno idea. sorry ;)
00:07:23 Join muesli__ [0] (n=muesli_t@91.64.233.208)
00:07:48LloreanDerPhil: Album Art isn't an official feature of Rockbox at this time.
00:07:54DerPhilwell i think the prob is that theres only a solution in which you can show a bitmap placed in the folder beside the songs but no version for showing album art saved in the id3 tags, no?
00:08:18DerPhilwhat does it mean: database is not ready?
00:10:45LloreanDerPhil: It's not supported period. What you're talking about is an entirely unofficial patch.
00:10:53Llorean"Database is not ready" means you haven't initialized the database.
00:11:30 Quit petur ("sssssssssss---------PLOP!")
00:11:58DerPhilbut the patch exists?
00:12:14DerPhilk one thing left: can i change the height and the font of the header?
00:13:22linuxstbNo
00:13:43linuxstbBut a WPS can have a fully-customised status bar
00:14:42tehsmoeww, album art comes in id3s?
00:15:03n1ssometimes...
00:15:04DerPapstyes
00:15:21tehsmothat must be a hell of a nasty hack
00:15:26DerPapstno
00:15:42tehsmogranted, id3 tags in general are a hack
00:16:01DerPapst^^
00:16:14DerPapstitunes can sore albumart in id3 tags
00:16:19tehsmoah
00:16:29DerPapstand i think windows mediaplayer to
00:16:38DerPapstit displayes them at least
00:16:42tehsmoah
00:18:17*DerPapst starts hating maya
00:18:52LloreanThe advantage of the patch's way of doing it include only having one file per album, the option to easily have art per individual file with it defaulting back to an album file if not present for that one, and the ability to include album art even for untaggable formats.
00:19:23*DerPapst hopes maya didn't hear it... otherwise it will crash instandly
00:19:35 Part DerPapst
00:19:59 Join DerPapst [0] (n=DerPapst@pD9EB33BD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
00:20:17 Part n1s
00:21:04 Quit MarcoPolo (Remote closed the connection)
00:21:07DerPhili didnt understand a word but it doesnt sound very good
00:22:46 Quit muesli (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:22:49 Join nowotny [0] (i=Miranda@aig246.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl)
00:23:22DerPhilwell thanx for your help
00:23:38DerPhilbut i have to get up in five and a half hour so i think ill go to bed now ;)
00:23:44 Join spiorf [0] (n=spiorf@host253-206-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)
00:24:26DerPhilgood night (even if its not evening where you live)
00:24:28DerPhilnacht papst
00:24:29 Quit DerPhil ("Es kann nur einen geben. Doch der geht jetzt! • :: ««« (Gamers.IRC) »»» www.gamersirc.net ::")
00:30:41 Quit zylche (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:31:05 Join zylche [0] (n=wheee@82-41-83-91.cable.ubr01.dund.blueyonder.co.uk)
00:36:49dan_ascorche: SYN/ACK
00:37:16scorche;)
00:37:30hcsscooby: SYN/ACK
00:39:48yossapixelma: are you here?
00:40:40 Quit ender` (" It is difficult to produce a television documentary that is both incisive and probing when every twelve minutes one is inter)
00:41:09pixelmaI am
00:41:58yossaI've got something special for you
00:42:42DerPapsto.O gifts?
00:45:01 Quit nowotny (Nick collision from services.)
00:45:15 Join nowotny [0] (i=Miranda@aiv128.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl)
00:48:37 Quit spiorf (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:49:11 Join spiorf [0] (n=spiorf@host121-210-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)
00:49:27 Quit spiorf (Connection reset by peer)
00:49:37 Join spiorf [0] (n=spiorf@host121-210-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)
00:53:28 Quit matsl ("Riece/2.0.2 XEmacs/21.5-b27 (fiddleheads, linux)")
00:54:28 Quit Nico_P (Remote closed the connection)
01:00
01:02:27 Quit zzap ("baixx")
01:02:33 Join zzap [0] (i=zzap@irc.zzaps.com)
01:06:20 Quit spiorf (Remote closed the connection)
01:07:27***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:07:51 Part Llorean
01:09:04 Join midkay [0] (n=midkay@rockbox/developer/midkay)
01:14:11 Quit markun (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:19:24 Join markun [0] (n=markun@rockbox/developer/markun)
01:22:37 Quit roolku ()
01:22:40 Join JdGordon [0] (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
01:24:25 Join midkay_ [0] (n=midkay@c-67-160-89-111.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
01:33:28 Quit My_Sic ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
01:42:20 Quit dan_a (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:42:22 Quit midkay (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:43:14 Join cynicalliberal [0] (n=chatzill@adsl-70-137-157-200.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net)
01:48:07Falco98JdGordon: you get my PMs?
01:48:23 Part DerPapst
01:55:52 Join Llorean [0] (n=Llorean@rockbox/administrator/Llorean)
02:00
02:01:06 Join SimonSelki [0] (n=SimonSel@ppp-70-245-204-214.dsl.snantx.swbell.net)
02:01:28SimonSelkiHi all.
02:01:50SimonSelkiI just installed rockbox on my friends 30gig iPod Video for him
02:02:11SimonSelkiis it typical for the menues to operate so slow?
02:02:39SimonSelkiand also, when running the original firmware, it still doesn't drain the battery twice as much, does it?
02:05:27hcsany advice on defragging my DAP's FAT32 drive under linux? the best advice I've found online so far is just to copy everything off and reformat
02:05:43LloreanSimonSelki: Yes, and no.
02:12:35 Join gtkspert [0] (n=gtkspert@gateless.info)
02:15:01SimonSelkithanks a bunch
02:18:34LloreanSimonSelki: I guess, technically speaking, the menus aren't *supposed* to be slow, but they are right now until certain optimizations can occur in the uncertain future.
02:19:47 Part yossa
02:25:38Falco98paul, is that something that only affects the ipod port at the moment?
02:25:46Falco98or is it more in general?
02:26:33LloreanIt's almost entirely an iPod issue.
02:26:42 Quit markun (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
02:28:44SimonSelkiWell, the menues work more or less fine on my Nano
02:28:50SimonSelkiBut it has a Flash memory
02:28:52Soapsmall screen
02:28:53LloreanThe Nano has a much smaller screen.
02:28:58SimonSelkioh oh oh
02:29:07SimonSelkiI didn't think about that one
02:29:16SimonSelkiwould a more basic theme make it smoother?
02:29:18Soap(Soap beat LL to an answer!)
02:29:30Soap(even if it wasn't as well worded)
02:29:37SimonSelkihah
02:29:57SoapSimonSelki: it's about the amount of data that needs refreshed.
02:30:02SimonSelkiI thought it had something to do with the hard drive disk having to spin an junk
02:30:03LloreanSimonSelki: Not very much smoother no, other than choosing to use a background color instead of a backdrop image.
02:30:22SimonSelkiah, so I was sort of right?
02:30:39Soapon the theme theory?
02:30:44LloreanMost of the slowness relates to how much data has to be redrawn when the highlight bar moves.
02:30:54 Quit akaias (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:30:59 Quit Thundercloud (Remote closed the connection)
02:31:08 Join Thundercloud [0] (n=thunderc@84-51-130-71.judith186.adsl.metronet.co.uk)
02:32:05 Part pixelma
02:33:12 Join akaias [0] (n=akaias@c-76-16-18-102.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
02:33:45SimonSelkiI see... Hey, just because I'm interested, how can Rockbox play FLACs so well at like 800kbps, but studders at Mp3s with anything over 228kbps?
02:34:12LloreanBecause the bitrate really has very little relationship across formats.
02:34:17JdGordonbecause the flac decoder is much better
02:34:28JdGordonand what Llorean said
02:35:30LloreanA 320kbps contains more data than a 128kbps MP3. An 800kbps FLAC and a 700kbps FLAC of the same song contain the same amount of data, but the 700 one is a more complicated version of that data, so actually the bigger a FLAC file is for the same song, the less work is needed to be done.
02:36:43thegeekan mp3 is packed harder, so it takes greater force to unpack it
02:37:36Presencellorean, best explanation ever, re: flac. Thanks. :)
02:39:00Falco98interesting trivia: my PC will randomly BSOD if i compress to FLAC at quality 6, but not if i compress at 2 or 3
02:39:14Falco98it kinda makes me pull my hair out, a little bit...
02:39:28hcsdoes it do that when otherwise under full load?
02:40:03Falco98i could have *nothing* going on other than the compression, and be nearly guaranteed that 1 of every 2 or 3 level-6 encodes will make it go
02:41:02LloreanIs that 6+ or just 6?
02:41:05Falco98but i've been aware for years that i have a bug somewhere, like some subtle conflict between chipsets or something, since i'll BSOD at other random times... like certain specific MP3s seem to make it BSOD about 50% of the time, but usually in the same spot
02:41:09Falco986+
02:41:11Falco98well
02:41:21Falco98for FLAC the different encode levels are merely different optimizations
02:41:38Falco98levels 7 and 8 are so ridiculously slow that they may as well not be used
02:41:53Falco98they're slow and the increase in filesize efficiency they give is minimal
02:41:58LloreanRidiculously slow in what context? How long it takes you to encode?
02:42:09Falco98this is FLAC encoding in general
02:42:11Falco98not just for me
02:42:27LloreanWell, I meant "encode time, as opposed to decode time"
02:42:32Falco98it will hold true for anyone who uses the command-line FLAC encoder
02:42:40Falco98yeah
02:42:56Falco98encoding time increases exponentially between levels 5, 6, 7, and 8
02:42:56LloreanI mean, I really don't care how long my encode times are, as long as they're faster than realtime, since I'm only encoding to an archive format once.
02:43:13Falco987 and 8 are slower than realtime
02:43:21LloreanHaven't been for me.
02:43:23Falco98when i said "ridiculously slow" i meant it ;-)
02:43:41Falco98do you typically encode at 7 or 8?
02:43:48LloreanI was using 8 at the time.
02:43:49Falco98i haven't done the benchmark test on a very fast PC though
02:44:05Falco98but i encoded the same song across all 8 levels and recorded encoding times
02:44:12*Llorean shrugs
02:44:26Falco98and the times get parabolically larger (as i said) from 5 - 6 - 7 - 8
02:44:28Falco98plus
02:44:31LloreanThen I transcoded to wavpack anyway.
02:44:41Falco98at 7 and 8, the filesize benefit may actually be negligible, or negative
02:45:45Falco98why wavpack?
02:46:00LloreanBecause at the time it was performing better than FLAC on Rockbox?
02:46:08LloreanThis predates our move to the other FLAC decoder.
02:46:35Falco98gotcha.
02:46:41Falco98makes sense :)
02:46:54Falco98personally i love FLAC in almost every way
02:47:09Falco98except for the lack of a decent GUI winamp vorbis-comment viewer / editor
02:47:26Falco98plus the viewer that exists actually abuses the way vorbiscomment is structured
02:47:55 Quit Thundercloud (Remote closed the connection)
02:47:57*Llorean doesn't use winamp.
02:47:58Falco98[though it's shitloads better than nothing, and of course, also loads better than having no track info, such as in SHN]
02:48:08Falco98what's your PC music player of choice?
02:48:10Falco98foobar?
02:48:22LloreanFoobar, but I don't really use my PC much at all.
02:48:27LloreanThere's not terribly much cause to.
02:48:36Falco98what do you use, then?
02:48:39Falco98or just RB?
02:48:45LloreanJust Rockbox.
02:49:16LloreanI mean, if I need to hook it up to speakers, my home stereo is better sounding than my PC anyway.
02:49:32Falco98the only reason i don't is, i don't feel like unnecessarily draining my iriver's battery
02:49:59*Llorean has a charger to plug in...
02:50:08Falco98i'm not convinced at how healthy it is for the battery to leave it sitting there plugged into the AC adapter while playing, if i could be using something else that isn't battery-powered
02:50:50Falco98doesn't the iriver power itself through its battery, even if it's plugged into the charger?
02:51:03Falco98or is it smart enough to draw power straight from the wall and completely bypass the battery?
02:51:17Falco98[i have reason to believe it doesn't do this, but you might have info i don't]
02:52:14LloreanIt should be irrelevant anyway since it's liion battery.
02:52:38 Quit midkay_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
02:52:40Falco98why?
02:52:56 Join midkay_ [0] (n=midkay@c-67-160-89-111.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
02:53:12 Quit muesli__ ("ich will Kühe!!!")
02:53:20Falco98don't li-ion batteries lose their potency after use / recharging?
02:53:37Lloreanli-ion batteries lose their potency with aging.
02:54:08LloreanThe aspect of use that will affect their potency is I believe the heat of charging them.
02:54:15Falco98ahh okay
02:54:24LloreanThough I'm not an expect on the matter, so I could've misunderstood something
02:54:39Falco98so i shouldn't be overly worried about affecting the useful life of my battery by using it while keeping it plugged into the charger
02:54:43Falco98is what you're saying?
02:55:18LloreanWell, I've had an h120 that I've used almost equally from the charger as from battery, maybe more, and I still get good battery life despite its age.
02:55:28Falco98cool.
02:55:56LloreanWhile I can't speak in any scientifically speaking manner, the anecdotal experience I can offer is "It isn't bad, at least for me"
02:56:05Falco98i have noticed, though, that if the charger successfully fills the battery up while it's playing, and the charge-light goes off, that it stops attempting to charge altogether until it's unplugged and plugged back in again
02:56:11SimonSelkiman, it's too bad I onlt have a 2 gig nano, or I would use a lot more FLACs
02:56:47Falco98simon: you could always keep your FLACs on your HDD or a dvd-r, and crosscode them to nice compact OGG's temporarily for DAP use..no?
02:57:12Falco98(of course you could use MP3 also, though i have no idea why anyone would choose MP3 over OGG when they have rockbox at their disposal)
02:57:51LloreanFalco98: If you can't hear the difference, MP3 can result in a good deal better battery life.
02:58:28Falco98of course, 128kbps ogg-vorbis can be noticeably better (and more filesize efficient) than 128 kbps mp3 :)
02:58:46Falco98plus, the only thing i have at all on my iriver is Oggs, and i've had no battery life issues
02:58:55Falco98(of course perhaps i don't have a point of comparison)
02:59:10LloreanBut a user who can't hear the difference between 128mp3 and 128vorbis will get better battery life because MP3 doesn't require boosting to decode.
02:59:55LloreanOf course, they could just encode to even lower quality vorbis, for the filesize benefit.
02:59:57Falco98aw dang
03:00
03:00:12LloreanAnd I don't think anyone's done a solid test to see if file complexity or filesize affect battery life more.
03:00:15Falco98i'm not sure what you're referring to with "boosting" tho
03:00:30LloreanOf course, as filesize goes up beyond a certain point, it'll be the worse one, the question is "below what point in filesize, does decode time cost more?"
03:00:44Presencethe ipod switches between 30mhz and 75mhz, to keep the PCM buffer full.
03:00:55LloreanAnd the iRiver between 45 and 120.
03:01:03LloreanOr somewhere thereabouts.
03:01:11LloreanWell, the iRiver Hxxx series.
03:01:11Falco98oh, and it can't decode ogg in realtime at the lower speeds?
03:01:24LloreanMost formats boost to keep the buffer full.
03:01:41LloreanMP3 is more an exception. It, FLAC, and MPC.
03:01:47Falco98so what, do they both have built-in hardware mp3 decoders?
03:01:53hcsand ADX
03:01:58 Join menosm [0] (n=menosm__@user-11fadfo.dsl.mindspring.com)
03:02:04LloreanNah, no hardware decoders.
03:02:06Falco98or is it just something in the nature of the encoding in mp3 that makes it easier to decode?
03:02:10LloreanThe codecs are just more efficient computationally.
03:02:20Falco98gotcha
03:02:33Falco98yeah i suppose i knew ogg was slightly more demanding
03:02:35idnarmusepack is incredibly fast to decode
03:02:43Falco98though i thought the difference was rather slight?
03:02:50SimonSelkiDoing all of that sounds cool, 'cept I don't know what an OGG or DAP is...
03:02:51Falco98like 20% or less?
03:03:00idnarI generally go for musepack when I transcode to a lossy format (although I just stick with my FLACs myself, 30GB gives me enough room to play)
03:03:15Falco98SimonSelki: OGG is short for Ogg-Vorbis, a different kind of encoding... like mp3 but better in most ways :)
03:03:28SimonSelkiawesome
03:03:32Falco98SimonSelki: DAP is what some people call an MP3 player, it stands for "digital audio player"
03:03:51SimonSelkiThat gives me a reason to burn of 2x the battery life =P
03:04:01SimonSelkiI just got a new iPod batter
03:04:03SimonSelkiy
03:04:08Falco98since my iriver doesn't actually HAVE any mp3s on it (but 21 gigs of ogg's, comprising my CD collection), it is technically a DAP and not an mp3 player :-P
03:04:20SimonSelkihah
03:04:29Lloreanidnar: The problem with FLAC is that it has to spin the disk up a lot more, which costs a good deal of battery each time.
03:05:59Falco98k i gotta run for a little while, see everyone later probably... thanks again to jdgordon for pushing my patch into cvs :-D
03:06:50 Nick Falco98 is now known as falco98_away (n=chatzill@cpe-024-088-106-250.sc.res.rr.com)
03:06:53idnarLlorean: I guess there is that
03:07:11idnarbut transcoding half my collection would get complicated
03:07:33***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
03:07:55idnarI should probably keep that in mind, though
03:09:01LloreanBut really, if your current setup works for you, may as well stick with it.
03:09:13LloreanProbably about 1/5 of the music on my player is in FLAC
03:19:06Presencef
03:23:09 Quit courtc (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
03:26:07SimonSelkiokay okay, what if I load the database to RAM, will it still be a little rough? or does it help at all?
03:26:37excitatoryLlorean: it's interesting.. oggs drain my battery less than mp3 (1 gen nano)
03:27:11SimonSelkiWhere can I get one of these great ogg converters?
03:27:19SimonSelkiThey sounds heaven scent
03:27:19LloreanMy statements about relative codec efficiency applied primarily to the Coldfire targets. The ARM targets (iPods, H10) have Vorbis and MP3 codecs much closer to each other.
03:27:21SimonSelkithat's right
03:27:24SimonSelkiscent
03:27:26excitatorydon't convert
03:27:31excitatoryyou'll lose quality
03:27:40excitatorylike making a copy from a copy
03:27:42SimonSelki....damn, wait
03:27:47SimonSelkiso how do you use them?
03:27:52excitatorylike an mp3
03:28:00TheCollectorSimonSelki: you'll want to re-rip your CDs
03:28:01excitatoryyou rip a cd, then encode to ogg
03:28:07LloreanYou have to convert from a CD, not any existing file
03:28:17excitatoryLlorean: unless it's flac or wav
03:28:23SimonSelkiwhat if I burn an Mp3 to a CD?
03:28:25excitatoryor any other lossless
03:28:39excitatorySimonSelki: still lose quality
03:28:39SimonSelkilike, for a CD player
03:28:44Lloreanexcitatory: FLAC, ALAC, AIFF, WAV, or Lossless Wavpack, specifically, but I was giving greatly simplified directions.
03:28:44SimonSelkihmmm
03:29:06LloreanAnd that's just formats Rockbox supports, there are plenty of other lossless ones in the wild
03:29:07LloreanOh, and SHN
03:29:14excitatorymp3 is a lossy format.. it inherently doesn't have the full data of the original audio file
03:30:11SimonSelkiwhat does iTunes use? I mean, before it chops them all up
03:30:31excitatorySimonSelki: most people have a mix of formats.. for me, it's a blend of mostly ogg, some flac, and maybe 1/10 mp3 from years past..
03:30:48excitatorySimonSelki: by default, it uses aac, but you can set it to use mp3
03:31:12excitatoryaac is a horrible, restrictive format, but it sounds alright.
03:31:26 Join Daishi [0] (n=daishi@ool-4570aea6.dyn.optonline.net)
03:31:35SimonSelkiI'm trying to correct my ways. I have libraries and libraries of Mp3s. Are they obsolete now? I can't sleep at night knowing there is a more efficient format and I'm still using Mp3s.
03:31:41 Quit midkay_ (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
03:31:50excitatorySimonSelki: nah, don't worry
03:32:01excitatorythe one nice thing about mp3 is that EVERYTHING supports it
03:32:23TheCollectorSimonSelki: there is no "perfect" format
03:32:29excitatoryfrom car stereos, to dvd players, to cheaper mp3 stereos..DAPs, etc.
03:32:36TheCollectorthey all are trade-offs in one respect or another
03:33:18excitatorySimonSelki: my comment was misleading too since ogg generally drains batteries more..just not on the nano
03:34:02excitatorySimonSelki: ogg is nice because it's open and free and ever improving. if you rip your mp3's using the oss LAME encoder, it's pretty much the same thing.
03:34:24SimonSelkiI only have a 2 gig iPod Nano man. You tell me there's a better smaller format and I'm going to slit my wrists the next time I don't have enough space to for my new favorite single from Justin Timberlake because my self-help audio Mp3s are too damn beefy.
03:35:06excitatory..and unless you're a neurotic golden ear with studio quality audio gear, it's hard to tell the difference between ogg and mp3..
03:35:27LloreanNot to mention Ogg isn't very much smaller.
03:35:48excitatoryuntil you start getting into various ogg and mp3 encoders at different bittrates, you won't notice.
03:36:13SimonSelkiI can usually tell the difference between inly 128 and FLAC
03:36:18SimonSelkionly...
03:36:32excitatoryyea, well who cant
03:36:44SimonSelkiI guess I'll be okay
03:37:08excitatorystick with at least 192 and everything will sound great.
03:37:24SimonSelkiMan, this changes everything
03:37:27excitatory256 range is where it's next to impossible to tell for me
03:38:05SimonSelkiI have a Zappa album on my iPod that takes up a quarter of the space because it's in FLAC
03:38:22excitatorySimonSelki: many people still maintain that one should stick with mp3 just for compatibility reasons and the fact that it sounds pretty damn good.
03:38:45excitatoryyes, for only a 2gb nano, i wouldn't put any flacs on there
03:39:01excitatoryencode them down to a reasonable bitrate
03:39:30SimonSelkiKnow of any good Ogg encoders?
03:40:09excitatoryyea, the aotuv vorbis encoder
03:40:15excitatoryi'll grab you a url
03:41:03SimonSelkiis it freeware or do I have to find other means?
03:41:03SimonSelkiThanks, I do appreciate it a lot.
03:41:37excitatoryyea, it's open source, and thus free.
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03:42:13excitatoryhttp://rarewares.org/ogg.html scroll down and grab "Oggenc2.83 using aoTuVb5"
03:42:41excitatoryif you use linux, let me know, since it's different.
03:42:55SimonSelkiYeah, great man. Thanks.
03:42:56SimonSelkiWin98
03:43:01excitatory!
03:43:03SimonSelkiIt's depressing....
03:43:07SimonSelkiI'm so poor
03:43:34excitatoryum.. use linux, it's free and significantly better than windows 98
03:44:18SimonSelkiI only have a very vague idea of what linux is
03:44:29SimonSelkiand unix both
03:44:39excitatoryyea, understandable
03:45:10excitatorywell, i would save if for another night
03:45:12Soapexcitatory: this is the rockbox channel
03:45:18Soapplease don't drift so far off topic
03:45:24excitatorySoap: sorry
03:45:25Soapand if you are, at least get your facts correct.
03:45:30excitatoryyea
03:45:32SoapAAC is not a restrictive format.
03:46:00excitatoryi meant it in the sense that it's not open
03:46:05Soapbut it is.
03:46:16excitatoryoh.
03:46:27excitatorywell, i feel silly
03:46:53LloreanWell, as open as MP3, roughly
03:46:57LloreanThey're both patented, just not enforced.
03:47:16LloreanWell, not enforced against the open source decoders world, rather.
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03:51:58excitatorySimonSelki: well, to finish, you'll want to get off win98. if interested in linux, you will want a distribution of it (a collection of software packages, settings, drivers, and the linux kernel). a distro's website will provide you with instructions for downloading a CD image to burn to a CD-R, which you can boot off of, which will then install your new operating system. I recommend ubuntu (ubuntu.com) as a good starting point.
03:51:58excitatoryperhaps read about it and decide if it's for you.
03:52:02*excitatory goes back on topic
03:52:06excitatory(sorry)
04:00
04:03:58SimonSelkiWell that's a hell of a start
04:04:07SimonSelkiCan I PM you?
04:06:47excitatorysure, but i'm making dinner, so i'll be afk periodically..
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04:39:15Omega_XiHello
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04:43:57Omega_XiHi, is anyone about?
04:44:52Soapyes
04:44:59Soaplots of people are idle
04:45:14Soapif you ask your question you will likely get an answer, though this is the slow period.
04:45:16Omega_XiHeh, the usual for IRC ^^;
04:45:28Omega_XiUmm, I think I bricked my iPod
04:45:40Soapyou'd be the first.
04:45:42Soapnano?
04:46:05Omega_XiI followed the instructions in the manual, and now it keeps rebooting and displaying rockbox error-1
04:46:21Soapso you have installed the bootloader.
04:46:29Soapdo you have rockbox itself on your player?
04:46:42Omega_XiYeah, I copied rockbox to the root of the player
04:47:10Soapthe zip?
04:47:35Omega_XiNo, I extracted the *.zip to my player, sorry I should have specified
04:47:37LloreanAlso, what sort of player is it?
04:47:48Omega_XiIt's an iPod video, 5.5
04:47:52LloreanError -1 means "We could not find the file rockbox.ipod in the root of your iPod"
04:47:54Llorean30gb
04:47:56Llorean?
04:48:13Soapdid you copy the zip, or did you /extract/ the zip to the root of your player?
04:48:13Omega_XiYeah 30Gb
04:48:29maquisOmega_Xi: don't worry... i thought i'd bricked my ipod once too, and people here were able to show me that i hadn't... i had just run into a very odd bug
04:48:41Omega_Xi*phew* ^_^
04:48:44maquis:)
04:48:51Omega_Xi(grown man nearly cried here, lol)
04:48:51LloreanWell, the continual reboot means you installed the bootloader improperly (you likely won't be able to use the Apple firmware, though Rockbox should work fine), and the error: -1 means it can't find teh file I mentioned.
04:48:57falco98_awaybesides don't ipods have a rather clean master-reset function built-in?
04:49:36Omega_XiI'm not so worried about the apple firmware, I got the thing purely for rockbox ;)
04:49:56Lloreanfalco98_away: What they have build in, is a in-flash disk mode and a hard reset, that we don't really have access to (nor would we bother modifying if we did, since it's entirely unnecessary to ever do so)
04:50:09LloreanOmega_Xi: So, on your drive, say X:\, is there a file rockbox.ipod and a folder .rockbox?
04:50:17LloreanYour iPod drive
04:50:42falco98_awayLlorean: i just mean.. like, if someone bricks their ipod.. can't they do a master-reset?
04:50:42Omega_XiThere was, yes, but I can't access it as F:\ anymore
04:50:56falco98_awaylolol.. wii vs. ps3 http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9136575504838642038&hl=en
04:51:14falco98_awaygo-karts!
04:51:15Lloreanfalco98_away: What do you mean by "master reset"?
04:51:17falco98_awaysorry off topic
04:51:26LloreanOmega_Xi: Yes you can, use disk mode.
04:51:38LloreanHold Menu+Select to restart it, and quickly hold Select+Play
04:51:43falco98_awayLlorean: sorry if i'm completely wrong.. i just thought i heard that ipods have a master firmware reset/restore built in
04:51:48LloreanThey do not.
04:51:53falco98_awayi.e. in the hardware
04:51:55falco98_awayah whoops
04:51:57falco98_awayok
04:51:59falco98_awaynm then :)
04:52:05Omega_XiAwersome :D diskmode works
04:52:39Omega_Xiok, rockbox.ipod is there
04:52:55Omega_Xialong with the .rockbox folder
04:53:20LloreanAnd it's a Fat32 formatted drive?
04:53:36SoapWhat install instructions did you use?
04:54:15Omega_XiYeah, it's FAT32, I used the instructions from the *.pdf at http://download.rockbox.org/manual/rockbox-ipodvideo-20061218.pdf
04:54:53LloreanI suggest uninstalling and following the new instrcutions.
04:55:22Omega_XiSo, delete rockbox.ipod and the .rockbox folder?
04:55:26Soapbad timing, linuxstb just added a warning to the manual to follow the new instructions in the wiki.
04:56:04Omega_Xi^^;
04:56:22Omega_XiWill I need to redo the bootloader?>
04:56:24SoapOmega_Xi: and restore your bootpartition.bin file.
04:56:47LloreanOmega_Xi: Follow the uninstallation instructions.
04:57:01Omega_XiOk
04:57:04Soapyes, you will need to redo the bootloader, but you dont need to delete the rockbox.ipod file or .rockbox directory.
04:57:49Omega_XiAh, okay... brb, while I uninstall, I'm assuming I can do it from disk mode
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05:01:09Omega_XiOkay, it's back the way it was :D thank you for being so helpfull :)
05:01:45Omega_Xiand the updated instructions are in the wiki?
05:01:52Lloreanhttp://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IpodInstallationBeta
05:02:31Omega_XiThanks :D you guys are awesome
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05:05:32Omega_XiSorry to be annoying, but I just want to be sure of something, should I install the bootloader from diskmode or the normal apple f/w?
05:05:52TheCollectoreither works
05:06:08hcsshouldn't matter, if the apple f/w detects that you wrote something new to the boot partition it'll reboot
05:06:08TheCollectorI did it wit my nano in the normal mode
05:06:31Omega_XiThanks :)
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05:08:43LloreanIf it were possible to brick an iPod, it's likely I'd have done so ages ago anyway
05:09:38TheCollectorLlorean: do you know if high-res pictures of the guts of the 2 Gen. Nano are still needed?
05:10:06LloreanI think many of the interesting innards have already been identified, but I'm not sure they're *not* needed.
05:10:19LloreanThe real problem right now, though, is the difficulty of the firmware being encrypted
05:11:05TheCollectorah - I remember seeing a bit about that on the wiki yesterday
05:11:45TheCollectortoo bad Apple had to screw up a good thing instead of just throwing more flash in there
05:12:06LloreanApple doesn't like us, I don't think.
05:12:32LloreanNot like, in a "out to destroy us" kinda sense, but in a "If it's easy, we may as well throw them a few stumbling blocks" sense.
05:13:11TheCollectorright, it's a shame that most tech companies adopt that kind of attitude regarding hacking on their hardware
05:13:47TheCollectorThat's the one thing I really miss about my Neuros, besides the FM transmitter
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05:17:03Omega_XiAwesome! It's working now :D
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06:42:48Tony_3g_ownerhello,
06:43:03Tony_3g_ownerfinally, i can type something.
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07:06:58Tony_3g_ownerwow, rockbox play 128kbps songs on 3g now :)
07:07:12Tony_3g_ownerwithout skipping
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09:09:30LloreanI was wondering if anyone has a view regarding "Official" threads at other forums, such as "Official" progress threads and such. My concern specifically is the word official itself, since while the source of the progress is official (often CVS logs) what gets chosen, and even interpretation of it, or meaning, is often not.
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09:12:04BagderI agree with that sentiment
09:12:13BagderI'd rather just have the lot unofficial
09:14:08cynicalliberalAre we speaking in terms of official in the purest sense of the word? Because sometimes its the word 'Official' to consolidate anything that might have to do with the subject into a single thread.
09:14:17linuxstbI see them as being "official" in terms of whatever forum the thread is on. I'm not sure how people can think that they are official in terms of being written by Rockbox.org.
09:15:18linuxstbPersonally, I'm more concerned about people sharing their own builds of rockbox without any source or licensing statements.
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09:20:11Lloreanlinuxstb: That's a concern to.
09:20:45LloreanNow that I feel our forums are reasonably stable, I've decided I'd like to try to clarify the image of Rockbox externally. You know, lessen the misinformation, clarify where "official" news comes from, and so on.
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09:21:22LloreanI can easily see "Official" meaning "Maintained by these forums" rather than "Provided by Rockbox.org" but it still seems to have the potential to confuse users.
09:21:30linuxstbMaybe we should have an RSS news feed - if some people populate it with news...
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09:22:09LloreanThe thing is, most of these threads try to aggregate news related to their specific target.
09:22:22LloreanAlthough I suppose that could be handled by metadata tags on the news or something.
09:22:30LloreanAll "contextual web" and that jazz.
09:22:33GodEater_Webre: RSS feed, it'd have to be updated more frequently than the "news" items on the frontpage at rockbox.org
09:22:55*Bagder once tried to edit such a news feed but failed rather soon
09:23:19*linuxstb fails to avoid thinking rockblog
09:23:19GodEater_WebLlorean: is there some particular "official" thread somewhere that has peaked your ire in this case ?
09:23:28LloreanGodEater_Web: There have been many.
09:23:55GodEater_Webcare to share so I can see what you mean ?
09:24:30linuxstbBut to be fair, there is no "offiicial" equivalent to those kinds of forum threads.
09:24:41LloreanBut I was just going over to iAudiophile to clarify that "Rockbox voids your warranty" "Rockbox is very unlikely to damage your player" and "Even if your damage wasn't caused by Rockbox, they can still deny your warranty claim if it was installed" because there seems to be some debate over all that.
09:25:06Lloreanlinuxstb: That's true, I'm not saying "crack down on all of them, right now" but rather opening discussion for figuring a better alternative out.
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09:25:50GodEater_Webdoes carrying the thread on forums.rockbox.org make it official? Or would it have to be "sanctioned" by a prominent rockbox member ?
09:26:03LloreanGodEater_Web: http://iaudiophile.net/forums/showthread.php?t=8231 for example. A post in there links to a forum thread as a "confirmation" of an improvement. While a valid link, it still depends on an outside source to decide what qualifies as an "announcement"
09:27:09LloreanGodEater_Web: My biggest concern is that I've seen at times complete misinterpretations of CVS comments, and then spread that misinterpretation among outside communities until a decent sized group thought Rockbox did or didn't have Feature X where the other case was true.
09:28:07GodEater_WebI see your point - but how do you propose fixing that?
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09:28:23GodEater_Webeven having an RSS feed still relies on people actually subscribing to it
09:28:23LloreanI'd like a guideline such as "Official" progress threads should only contain CVS log information, and statements by developers, for example.
09:28:46LloreanSo when they run an official thread at their site, we can at least hope that they only quote Devs or the CVS.
09:28:51GodEater_Webplus you'd have to have someone acting as a "rockbox mythbuster" checking these other forums constantly and correcting any misinterpretations
09:29:12LloreanI've often seen quotes taken from our IRC channel on progress threads that were made in jest, or suggested a slight improvement in an area that got blown into "Bug Y is gone!"
09:29:32LloreanNot constantly, or anything. It's an unenforceable rule, by definition.
09:29:41LloreanBut a lot exists on good faith.
09:30:01GodEater_Webtrue
09:30:12LloreanI'd rather ask politely that they try to make sure that if they stamp a thread "Official" it follows some recommended guidelines than ignore the matter altogether.
09:30:43GodEater_Webotherwise post a list on rb.org stating "We do not codone any statements made on site X whether they claim to be official or not" :)
09:30:51Lloreanlinuxstb: And yes, I'd *definitely* like to go after all those people providing builds without full source.
09:32:21*GodEater_Web got a free satsuma with his coffee this morning. It must be xmas :)
09:32:42*petur looks up satsuma
09:33:21GodEater_Webcitrus fruit
09:33:25GodEater_Websmall orange thing
09:33:27peturwow, you got a Japanese city for free!
09:33:32Bagderhahha
09:33:37JdGordonhow about putting a nice message at the top of rockbox.org saying this is the only place to get anything official... ?
09:33:59GodEater_Webhehe - no idea what I'm going to do with it petur :)
09:34:22*Llorean got a free soda with his sandwich tonight.
09:34:42*petur runs off to make tea
09:34:49linuxstbLlorean: If you do, remember they don't have to make source available to download with their builds, just respond to requests for the source. But they do have to include an offer to provide the source, valid for three years.... (IIUC)
09:36:17*GodEater_Web has had a thought re: 80G disk problems
09:36:21Lloreanlinuxstb: I wasn't sure about the period it had to be available, but I did know it had to be the full source needed to compile the binary (excluding standard libraries, etc) that they were distributing, and that it needed to be provided on request, but not necessarily posted.
09:36:36GodEater_Webanyone care to comment on the liklihood that apple don't use PIO, but rather DMA instead?
09:36:56GodEater_Weband that there may be a bug with the 80G drive's PIO support that they therefore wouldn't hav enoticed ?
09:37:20GodEater_Webor is that a dumb train of thought ?
09:37:31GodEater_Webin which case please enlighten me
09:37:44GodEater_Webonly use a small hammer though
09:37:48GodEater_Web:)
09:39:20GodEater_Webor I suppose they might have noticed but not cared if they knew they were going to use DMA
09:39:32linuxstbI'll leave that for one of the hardware gurus to answer.
09:40:01GodEater_Webheh - thought you wrote the original ipod ATA driver ?
09:40:02GodEater_Web:)
09:40:10linuxstbCTRL+C, CTRL+V
09:40:20GodEater_Webhahahah - my favourite way of coding too :)
09:40:29GodEater_Webstanding on the shoulders of giants an all that
09:41:00linuxstbAll I did was work out the #defines for the different addresses. And those were just extracted from the IPL kernel source.
09:41:16GodEater_Webgod bless the IPL guys
09:41:25linuxstbPlus I fixed all the endian issues. Previously, the Rockbox ATA driver only ran on big-endian CPUs.
09:41:45GodEater_Weboooh, that sounds more nasty
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09:42:19linuxstbNot really. Although I did get an amusing bug in the Rockbox text viewer where every pair of characters was reversed...
09:42:27GodEater_Webhehe
09:43:28amiconnI think it's very unlikely that apple uses ata dma
09:43:37GodEater_WebI'll post that thought to the forum thread as well - incase any of said "hardware gurus" don't catch up with today's IRC log
09:44:06amiconnEven if they use some pp dma controller to transfer data from the ata port, this would still be pio as seen by the drive
09:44:50amiconnBut I think LinusN knows more about these things than me
09:45:41amiconnDon't be too impatient, I'm quite sure there is a solution
09:45:58LloreanBy definition doesn't there have to be a solution, if Apple's firmware work? ;)
09:46:33GodEater_Webamiconn: you sure the drive still sees it as PIO ? The ATA spec seems to include a suite of DMA specific commands...
09:46:50*amiconn remembers how long it took to get the SH1 serial i/f to access MMC the way it should
09:47:16GodEater_WebLlorean: quite :)
09:49:13amiconnGodEater_Web: I already suggested a method which needs quite some work, but should produce results almost for sure.
09:50:05GodEater_Webis that you're piezo dumping suggestion?
09:50:11GodEater_Webs/you're/your
09:50:39amiconnYes, but not piezo. Standard audio should be more reliable and faster
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09:51:15GodEater_Webah well - I'll have to leave that to someone else - out of my league
09:51:38GodEater_WebI may have a poke at this DMA stuff and see if I can make any headway with it, it can't hurt :)
09:51:50amiconnIt would also be helpful if one dev had access to (ideally) 3 devices: a standard 5th gen, a 30GB 5.5th gen and an 80GB 5.5th gen
09:53:19JdGordonis rsync -r src dest enough to make sure every file in src is in dest ?
09:53:31Bagderyes
09:53:35JdGordont
09:53:35JdGordona
09:53:56amiconnOne thing I would try then would be swapping disks around and checking what works and what doesn't (in retailos, of course changing the firmware partition content)
09:54:56LinusNi have a 5gen and a 5.5gen
09:55:05linuxstbThe firmware partition has a version number (displayed with "ipodpatcher [device] -v −−list"), so we could check if the same firmware version is used on all 5g/5.5g targets.
09:55:59linuxstbPlus of course, extracting the main firmware to apple_os.ipod and comparing.
09:56:15amiconnHmm, isn't that one encrypted?
09:56:35linuxstbNo, the main (5MB+) image isn't encrypted. Only the AUPD (flash contents).
09:56:52linuxstbOn the G2 nano, they are both encrypted.
09:57:15amiconnSomewhat strange...
09:57:39amiconnThe flash content cannot be encrypted in flash, otherwise it wouldn't work. So why encrypt it on disk?
09:57:46linuxstbThe mi4 devices are the opposite - the bootloader image isn't encrypted, but the main firmware is.
09:58:20amiconnDo we know the encryption type and/or key(s)?
09:58:28Bagderactually, some of the mi4 targets have encrypted boot loaders too
09:58:47Bagderthe h10 "hex" format
10:00
10:00:18GodEater_Web0xb012 is the version reported here
10:00:43GodEater_Webif anyone wants me apple_os.ipod to compare with something else shout
10:00:48GodEater_Webs/me/my
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10:03:52 Quit JdGordon ("Konversation terminated!")
10:03:58linuxstbThe 5g image I have is 0xb012 as well.
10:04:15linuxstbI'll extract the apple_os and compare.
10:04:23linuxstb(I also have a 0xb012 5.5g image)
10:05:49linuxstbYes, the checksums for 5g and 5.5g match.
10:06:34GodEater_Webso nothing funny going on between the two versions then
10:07:21linuxstbIt could well use runtime detection though, and do things differently on the various different 5g/5.5g models.
10:07:55LloreanSo it's the same apple_os between 5G and 5.5G?
10:08:01GodEater_Webpossible
10:08:04GodEater_Webbut I don't believe that
10:08:18GodEater_Webthat would have shown considerable foresight when they were writing for the 5G
10:08:22LloreanWell he said the checksums match.
10:08:35LloreanGodEater_Web: I assume it's the newest firmware for 5G that he's comparing.
10:08:47GodEater_Webah I see what you mean
10:10:54amiconnlinuxstb: Are there older (pre-5.5th gen) versions of the 5th gen firmware available?
10:11:14*amiconn wonders what would happen when running such an older version on a 5.5th gen
10:12:59linuxstbI've got a copy of the original firmware partition from my 5g from December 2005.
10:13:24amiconnIt might also be interesting to disassemble both an older version and the most recent version, and then search for differences in the code
10:13:38amiconn...especially in places where the ata i/f addresses appear
10:14:05GodEater_Webcurious, just replacing CMD_READ_SECTORS with CMD_READ_DMA and I get status:0x50
10:14:12GodEater_Webi.e. no error
10:14:36GodEater_Webmind you - not a lot else happened :)
10:15:22amiconnLinusN: around?
10:17:03dewdude...so..is rockbox known to work on 5.5g models?
10:17:14linuxstb30GB, yes. 80GB, no.
10:17:24Bagder... as said on the web site's front page
10:17:32GodEater_Webin plain english
10:17:53dewdudeas it did...but somewhere else on the page, it said it didn't run on 5.5g at all....
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10:18:06Bagderwhere?
10:18:19dewdudeuhm...let me see if i can remember..i've spent the last 3 hours loading music
10:19:20LinusNamiconn: here now
10:19:49amiconnLinusN: I have a small change for the ata driver (archos related), getting rid of one more ifdef
10:20:01LinusNoh
10:20:08dewdudecan i post URL?
10:20:14amiconnI moved the ata_address_detect code into ata_device_init
10:20:28linuxstbdewdude: Please do.
10:20:47dewdudehttp://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IpodFAQ#So_which_is_better_Rockbox_or_i
10:20:51amiconnThis way it may be executed more than once, but since it just checks hw mask bits I don't think that it will cause problems
10:21:02dewdudeunder "Which Ipods does rockbox support"
10:21:14dewdudeit doesn't specify the 30 gig model as working
10:21:18amiconnIt also saves one function call, saving a tiny bit of code
10:21:41LinusNamiconn: i'm for it
10:21:42Bagderthe curse of having the same info on more than one place...
10:21:45amiconnDo you think I should commit that right away, or would you prefer to test on some more targets first (e.g. fmrecorder)?
10:21:46linuxstbdewdude: It's only been a day or two since it became officially supported, so not every reference has been updated.
10:21:56amiconnI tested on recv1 and player, no problems
10:22:05LinusNamiconn: nah, go ahead
10:22:08amiconnok
10:22:18dewdudeahhh
10:22:32Lloreandewdude: The page was older than the front page, but is now updated.
10:22:34dewdudei didn't bother actually digging into things till i actually got ahold of an ipod
10:22:55linuxstbLlorean: If you're in a wiki-editing mood, is IpodStatus OK as well?
10:23:07*Llorean goes looking
10:23:17LloreanNeeds fixing
10:23:27*Llorean goes fixing
10:24:48LloreanIpodStatus now says we support 30gigabyt 5.5G
10:24:50Lloreangigabyte
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10:27:59myzarreally? :>
10:28:08*scorche hides
10:28:17*myzar licks scorche
10:28:45scorchehow did you find me? (and yes, the 30 gig 5.5g is now supported if you didnt know)
10:28:59LloreanThe new iPodPatcher is all kinds of goodness.
10:29:15scorcheindeed...makes things easier on people as well
10:29:34scorcheso you should go lick linuxstb
10:30:09*myzar licks linuxstb
10:30:15myzarbut scorche
10:30:17myzar80 gigs are still down
10:30:18myzar;[
10:30:21scorcheyup
10:30:30myzarwhat if i throw it at the wall
10:30:32myzarwould it work then?
10:30:44LloreanI doubt percussive methods would be terribly beneficial.
10:30:44scorchewe are working on it...take a look at the logs for the last few days
10:31:16myzarmy bnc has been on
10:31:18myzari've been lazy
10:31:24myzarthat reminds me... xbmc and ##C++ have banned me
10:31:28myzarand i didn't say a word in either
10:31:31myzarever.
10:31:33*Llorean wonders if anyone's stuck a 5.5G 80gb disk in a 5.5G 30gb.
10:32:05myzartry it Llorean
10:32:13myzarwatch as it smokes and burns
10:32:17LloreanProvide me with both devices, and I'll gladly perform the operation.
10:32:30*GodEater_Web will too
10:32:44myzarheh
10:32:50*Llorean starts planning a raid on the local electronics store.
10:32:50myzarhow about
10:32:52myzarno
10:32:52myzar;p
10:32:59myzaror... yes
10:33:08*myzar provides Llorean with some lockpicks
10:33:12GodEater_Webright well the DMA read isn't returning an error, but neither is the buffer filling up - I suspect I've got more work to do
10:33:31scorchemyzar: lockpiking is a skill...just the tools wont be enough ;)
10:33:41miepchen^schlafthe 30gb 5.5 is a bit thinner than the 80gb 5.5
10:33:57scorchemiepchen^schlaf: you dont have to put the back on
10:34:04myzarthen you guys have gotten past the ATA SLEEP
10:34:07myzargood :D
10:34:19myzarbut theres no error you say?
10:34:24amiconnGodEater_Web: It cannot 'just work'. Afaiu, DMA uses different signals, so you need to find out how these are connected.
10:34:35myzar;\
10:34:46myzarcan i ask santa claus
10:34:52myzarto get me a working rockbox for 80 gigs?
10:34:54myzar=P
10:35:03myzaryou know, in russia, there is no christmas
10:35:05myzarit's all new year
10:35:34LloreanSnarky remarks don't work if people think you're still offering advice.
10:35:38Llorean=/
10:35:38GodEater_Webamiconn: yeah, I'd figured that - but I'm ever the optimist :)
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10:40:41 Nick GodEater is now known as GodEater_We (i=c2cbc95c@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-6d242ec1f034ea52)
10:40:43 Nick GodEater_We is now known as GodEater_Web (i=c2cbc95c@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-6d242ec1f034ea52)
10:41:22 Part daveyates ("Leaving")
10:41:51GodEater_Webah pooh
10:41:59GodEater_Webthis needs interupts and stuff
10:42:02LloreanHeh
10:42:10GodEater_WebI think my brain my go on strike
10:42:36GodEater_Webbut this MUST be the right path to go down - given there's no error being returned.
10:43:03LloreanNot necessarily.
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10:43:09linuxstbMaybe it's just not trying to do anything...
10:43:12LloreanA lack of response can also mean "it doesn't know it's supposed to respond yet"
10:43:17myzarthts the spirit
10:43:50GodEater_Webthere's not "No response" Llorean
10:43:56GodEater_Webit's changing the status register
10:44:06LloreanAh
10:44:12GodEater_Webso it's doing something :)
10:44:20myzarwell, debug what its doing
10:44:26myzarand find out when and why it changes?
10:44:28myzar=p
10:44:34GodEater_Webmyzar: sod off - this isn't easy
10:44:38myzareasier said than done.
10:44:40myzarbut a schema
10:44:43myzaror a plan of attack will help
10:44:53amiconnSomehow I doubt that dma mode is the issue. According to the identify info, no dma mode is enabled
10:45:19GodEater_Webamiconn: that's not what I read in the identify nfo
10:45:40GodEater_WebI think the stuff I dumped yesterday was after set_features() was called
10:45:46amiconnI know. But the identify info indicates whether dma transfer modes are enabled - and they're not
10:45:48GodEater_Webwhich forces PIO mode
10:46:11GodEater_Webwhen I looked before, when LinusN had me turn set_features() off
10:46:18GodEater_Webit was specifying dma mode 4
10:46:33amiconnYou mean ultra dma?
10:46:37GodEater_WebI've commented out set_features() again now
10:46:40GodEater_Webthink so
10:46:43GodEater_Weblet me check again
10:46:49*GodEater_Web goes hunting for the right word
10:46:50amiconnMulti-word dma only knows modes 0..2
10:47:18amiconn...and I doubt that the ipod hw will come even close to any ultra-dma timing
10:48:00GodEater_Webpessimist :)
10:48:42amiconnDumping identify_info right after power-up without calling set_features beforehand should tell
10:49:09linuxstbThe PP chips support ATA-66 IIRC from the product briefs.
10:49:31GodEater_Webword 63
10:51:30GodEater_Webcomes back with 0x7
10:51:38GodEater_Webso all multi-word DMA modes are supported
10:52:21amiconnYes, supported, but not enabled
10:53:01amiconnAll ata devices since at least 12 years ago are supposed to support mw-dma
10:53:38amiconnWord 88 would be interesting
10:54:02GodEater_WebI was just getting that one :)
10:55:16amiconnHmm, your dump from yesterday tells that UDMA4 is enabled...
10:55:19GodEater_Web101F
10:55:40amiconnYes, UDMA0..4 all supported, UDMA4 selected
10:56:08GodEater_Webknew I wasn't imagining having seen a mode 4
10:56:42amiconnNow go ahead and find out how to use UDMA on PP...
10:56:59*amiconn is surprised
10:57:00GodEater_Webpah - easy, and with my free hand I'll be a fusion reactor
10:57:07GodEater_Web*build
10:57:38amiconnHmm. I'm curious how the identify info does look on the various other ipods
10:57:48amiconnI can check on mini G2 myself
10:58:09GodEater_Webdigital camera - don't do what I did and type out by hand :)
10:58:22GodEater_Webalthough I suppose on the G2 you can dump it to a text file
10:58:30GodEater_Webwhich would be much better
10:58:42amiconnThe others won't need a digicam. Just read identify_info at boot and save it to a file later
10:59:00GodEater_WebI need more coffee - back in a bit
10:59:04amiconnI did that yesterday on X5 to see what the MK2006GAL gives back
10:59:26amiconnNo text file, just a pure dump. Then I used a hex editor to read it
11:00
11:02:20 Quit miepchen^schlaf (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
11:03:25*amiconn is searching how udma modes are enabled/disabled
11:04:35amiconnHmm, that would be SET_FEATURES as well
11:04:47amiconnSo set_features forces pio mode
11:05:31GodEater_Webyep
11:07:51***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
11:10:12GodEater_Webhow does set_features() work? I'm not sure I understand the sub-command / parameter stuff
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11:15:16GodEater_Weboh wait, I get it
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11:25:02*GodEater_Web wonders if using UDMA is fundamentally different to using DMA
11:28:27LinusNwe shouldn't have to use udma
11:30:28GodEater_WebI just can't work out what to put into set_features to make it use DMA
11:30:43LinusNwhy dma?
11:30:48LinusNnwy not pio?
11:30:58GodEater_Webpio doesn't appear to work
11:31:06GodEater_Webso I thought I'd try DMA to see if it made a difference
11:31:29GodEater_Webthe DMA READ command isn't returning errors like READ_SECTORS and READ_MULTIPLE are
11:31:53LinusNdo we even have the faintest clue how to operate dma ata on the portal player?
11:32:19GodEater_Webnone whatsoever - but we also don't have the faintest clue how to make PIO not return errors
11:32:56GodEater_WebI thought this might be worth a go
11:33:22JdGordondaurn: hey, you around?
11:33:24LinusNusing dma reguires new knowledge about the portalplayer chipset
11:33:31daurnno
11:33:45JdGordonyou smelling smoke also? or am i goin crazy again?
11:33:53daurnuh
11:33:55daurnno smoke here
11:34:04daurncheck your house for fires :P
11:34:11GodEater_WebLinusN: that may be so - but I'm out of ideas otherwise
11:34:22JdGordonthats why im asking :p smoke alarms arnt goin off so i figure its the bushfires again
11:35:10JdGordonNico_P: hows your cue patch going?
11:35:42Nico_PJdGordon: it's all on the wiki, haven't worked on it today
11:36:02Nico_Pon the sim it works grat, but when i tested it on my H320 it crashed :(
11:36:17JdGordonok, I havnt had a chance to look at yours yet, Im still tihnking it sholdnt be in the core unless its handled less hacky
11:36:25JdGordon:(
11:36:35Nico_Pand how is yours going ?
11:36:52JdGordonhavnt touched it today, mostly finished I rekon
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11:40:27Gnelikdan_a: Hi Dan!
11:40:52dan_aLinusN, GodEater_Web: For DMA info look at Bagder's page on the E200 NAND interface
11:41:09dan_aGnelik: Hi - I'm just popping in - I'm busy at work at the moment
11:41:18Gnelikdan_a: I have updated my Rb source to latest from CVs do i need to put your patch?
11:41:45dan_aGnelik: It's not in CVS yet, so yes.
11:42:07GnelikIs it working with a curent one?
11:44:08GodEater_Webdan_a: that nice little code stub you gave me the other day for dumping out ata_reads was missing a function definition for printc() - do you have it somewhere?
11:45:30GodEater_Webalso - do you have a link to the E200 page you're referring to ?
11:46:01scorchedaniel.haxx.se should link to it somewhere
11:46:12peturJdGordon: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=7753.0
11:46:39JdGordon... loading ...
11:47:12JdGordoneek... damn
11:47:29scorchehttp://daniel.haxx.se/sansa/e200.html
11:47:34GodEater_Webyou wouldn't credit it, but daniel.haxx.se is a banned site from work =(
11:47:40GodEater_Webhow lame
11:47:54scorchereason given?
11:47:59GodEater_Webnone
11:48:05scorcheouch
11:48:07GodEater_WebI just get an access denied
11:48:13peturyou're supposed to work at work?
11:48:21GodEater_Webapparently
11:48:40GodEater_Webalthough it *is* christmas
11:48:47JdGordonpetur: unless we want to force a settings save on shutdown im not sure what to do about these
11:49:16scorcheGodEater_Web: is pastebin.ca banned as well?
11:49:37LloreanJdGordon: Didn't settings save used to occur on shutdowns?
11:49:37GodEater_Webnope
11:49:39GodEater_Webit's okay
11:49:45GodEater_Webanonymouse.org to the rescue
11:49:47GodEater_Web:)
11:50:06daurnanyone know how to get stuff shipped from land of rising sun?
11:50:11JdGordonLlorean: I think so, but there was a hope to not cause a disk write on shutdown unless it was nesscacery
11:50:33JdGordondaurn: im pretty sure they have a postal service..
11:50:51daurnnot when the vendor doesn't ship international
11:51:14JdGordonthen you need to know someone there.. or courier pickup or something
11:51:21GodEater_Websansa is portalplayer as well isn't it ?
11:51:37daurn:(
11:51:40LloreanGodEater_Web: Yes.
11:51:42daurnany1 here from japan?
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11:51:53GodEater_Webso that DMA info could be v. useful indeed :)
11:52:55GodEater_Webbest save it locally before anonymouse get's banned too
11:54:13markundaurn: dongs is from japan..
11:54:17dan_aGodEater_Web: printc() just turned any non-alphanumeric characters to '.'
11:54:44scorchemarkun: haha....right
11:55:19GodEater_Webdan_a: yeah - I just couldn't be bothered to write it myself :)
11:55:23pillmorning
11:55:31pilli finally have my nano 2G
11:55:42pillit's such a lovely piece of hardware..
11:55:55dan_aGodEater_Web: I'll dig it out when I get home this evening (About 7pm GMT)
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11:56:59GodEater_Webhmm - those sansa registers look like they're miles away from the ipod ones
11:57:30linuxstb_GodEater_Web: http://daniel.haxx.se/sansa/e200.html if you haven't found it already.
11:57:50*linuxstb_ spots it in the logs....
11:58:13GodEater_Weblinuxstb_: thanks - I got it :)
11:58:27linuxstb_I'm catching up now...
11:58:35scorche=)
11:59:35linuxstb_I assume that under the DMA write section, "destination memory address" should be "source memory address" ?
12:00
12:00:17GodEater_Webthat would make sense
12:00:37LinusNehum, i don't see how this in any way relates to ATA DMA
12:01:44GodEater_WebI'm sort of struggling with that too
12:01:46LinusNthe dma described on that page is just a simple generic dma
12:02:03GodEater_WebI thought ATA DMA generated an interupt when it's done reading
12:02:20LinusNi bet you can poll that status as well
12:02:32LinusNstill, the ata dma is an entirely different beast
12:03:05*amiconn cannot find anything dma realted on Bagder's page
12:03:14GodEater_Webwell I'm stumped for other ideas to try
12:03:16linuxstb_It's at the bottom of the NAND page
12:03:25LinusNamiconn: follow the "NAND interface" link
12:03:33GodEater_WebPIO just seems to refuse to work
12:04:21LinusNlunch time for me
12:04:31daurnmarkun: dongs?
12:05:28amiconnhehe
12:05:36scorcheheh...i thought he wasnt around for that
12:06:13JdGordonwould anyone be really upset if the runtime settings were removed?
12:07:24amiconnyes
12:07:38amiconnBut they aren't settings, they are status information
12:08:23 Quit petur ("lunch")
12:10:41pixelmaand the "view runtime" screen still doesn't work properly since button actions...
12:10:59amiconnNot the only one...
12:11:23*JdGordon hears someone calling.... "cooming" *runs away*
12:11:28amiconnPowering on from the charging screen still uses the wrong button on the player, and on the recorder it's easy to confuse the screen
12:11:47JdGordonso fix the keymap?
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12:12:23amiconnUsing Short ON works as expected, but if one holds ON for too long, or presses/holds other buttons first, it happens that short ON doesn't work anymore
12:12:36amiconnReally odd...
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12:14:34JdGordonwell, im just lookign at the view runtime screen code, and its not using the multi-screen api at all, and that screen has annoyed me for a long time.. so im redoing it :p
12:15:48GodEater_Webwhich version arm controller is in the pp chips ?
12:15:54Slasherithat runtime screen also seems to be very unreliable.. for me it resets once in a while, so the displayed runtime is not correct
12:16:00JdGordonit also doesnt use lang, which is crap
12:16:05Slasheriand holding a button in the screen, stops the runtime counter!
12:16:41markundaurn: dongs used to come here to tell us how stupid we all are for not doing things the way he does (windows is the only OS, gvim is the only editor, ...)
12:17:02amiconnSlasheri: It doesn't reset 'once in a while', but when you charge the unit (on purpose), and on settings version change (which will go hopefully soon)
12:17:02JdGordongood old dongs, always happy to give us a laugh
12:17:17amiconnWhen charging only the current runtime is reset of course
12:17:17markunI think he's still on freenode
12:17:28barrywardellGodEater_Web: arm7tdmi
12:17:30scorchedont forget how horrible we were for using GCC and how we should pay thousands for a "real" compiler
12:17:35JdGordonmarkun: yeah, he is online now
12:17:37Slasheriamiconn: ah..
12:17:41GodEater_Webbarrywardell: thanks :)
12:18:27barrywardelldan_a: thanks for testing that on your 3G. I'll commit it now in a minute :)
12:19:01amiconnSlasheri: You can also reset each runtime separately by pressing a button in the runtime screen
12:19:30daurnew
12:19:32daurnvim
12:19:33daurnew
12:19:38daurnvi
12:19:39daurnew :S
12:21:12amiconnJdGordon: The runtime info screen doesn't use multi-screen and language because it's under debug. Perhaps it should go into the standard info menu instead
12:22:04JdGordonyeah, its not really a debug screen anyway, just because thats where it is in the menu
12:22:19JdGordonmove it to screens.c?
12:23:14Slasheribut there is no way to know if battery has been charged when player has been switched off
12:23:30Slasherian uptime and total uptime screen could be more useful in fact
12:25:01amiconnSlasheri: True, but then the H1x0 is the only target (with internal charging) that can charge while the unit is off
12:25:42amiconnOndio has a similar problem though, as it doesn't charge internally at all, but you change batteries. The Ondio has no way of knowing when that happens
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12:27:33barrywardellamiconn: H10 can charge while off too
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12:31:04GodEater_Webgod evince is a rubbish pdf viewer
12:31:50markunI like it
12:32:01habaname too
12:32:22pillis a port for the nano 2G to be expected? or is the encrypted firmware a definite blocking point?
12:33:13LloreanIt's by no means guaranteed to happen, as it pretty much depends on the efforts of those who have the player
12:33:40pillwell i have it, but i don't think i can be of any help
12:34:08pillexcept if you want me to run firmware dumping commands or some things like that
12:34:11markunand the hardware is quite different from the other ipods so it will be a completely new port
12:34:26pillyeah i read about that on IPL forums
12:34:34pillit's no PortalPlayer
12:37:05GodEater_Webthink we already have the firmware dumped - it's just unreadable because of the encryption
12:37:21GodEater_Weblinuxstb_: has a G2 Nano
12:40:18JdGordona ^= 1 will invert the LSB right?
12:42:33 Quit aliask ("Chatzilla 0.9.76 [Firefox 2.0/2006101023]")
12:44:04linuxstb_GodEater_Web: Yes, but I have no ability to solve the encryption problem.
12:44:30barrywardellBagder: I think the build table needs to be updated. The e200 build now creates rockbox.e200 rather than PP5022.mi4
12:44:42Bagderah
12:44:43GodEater_Weblinuxstb: I know that - but I was just pointing out to pill that one of our devs already had a G2 nano, and therefore likely had the firmware already
12:45:13Bagderdone
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12:46:29SlasheriJdGordon: a = (a & 0xfe) | ((~a) & 0x01)
12:46:44SlasheriJdGordon: that should invert it for 8 bit char
12:47:18JdGordonok, ill just stay with the state = state==1?2:1 then
12:47:58amiconna ^= 1; is way simpler
12:48:05Slasherior in fact that does it also
12:48:24Slasherihaven't just used xor for a long time
12:48:26*amiconn likes eor
12:50:13GodEater_Webisn't he a donkey
12:50:15GodEater_Web?
12:50:17GodEater_Web:)
12:50:25GodEater_Weboh wait - that's eyor
12:50:28JdGordonhaha.. no thats eeyooorr!
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12:51:29 Join Dksaarth_ [0] (n=dksaarth@dsl-240-112-228.telkomadsl.co.za)
12:51:42Dksaarth_Hey hey :]
12:52:09Dksaarth_anybody around?
12:52:34 Nick linuxstb_ is now known as anybody (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
12:52:39anybodyHi.
12:52:54n1s:-)
12:52:56Dksaarth_lol
12:53:16JdGordonwhat OS is on the comp logbot is on?
12:53:28n1swow, that is the longest commit message I've seen...
12:53:41 Nick anybody is now known as linuxstb (n=linuxstb@i-83-67-212-170.freedom2surf.net)
12:54:01JdGordonhahaha
12:54:11CtcpVersion from scorche!n=scorche@rockbox/administrator/scorche
12:54:11***Server message 505: 'logbot :Private messages from unregistered users are currently blocked due to spam problems, but you can always message a staffer. Please register! ( http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#privmsg )'
12:54:23Dksaarth_i believe that add ons like the itrip currently don't work with rockbox on the ipod right?
12:54:25JdGordonBagder: you cant make the What column any wider?
12:54:33scorcheJdGordon: probably linux...
12:54:36n1sDksaarth_: correct
12:54:45Dksaarth_is there anybody working on that
12:54:46Dksaarth_?
12:55:09n1sDksaarth_: don't know for sure but I don't think so
12:55:27Dksaarth_hmmm
12:55:33linuxstbI don't believe so. The first hurdle is getting the low-level serial driver in the ipods working.
12:55:48barrywardelln1s: yes, I was very verbose with that commit message. It's all pretty much summed up in the first sentence though :)
12:55:59scorcheJdGordon: ick...we have a spin-up before shutdown now? =S
12:56:00amiconnJdGordon: Forcing a settings save on shutdown without reason is _bad_
12:56:08Dksaarth_and hows that coming along linuxstb ?
12:56:08scorchehaha
12:56:11linuxstbThen it's reverse-engineering the Apple Accessory Protocol (which is already at least partly done).
12:56:15scorcheamiconn: nice one...
12:56:18amiconnImho this should be reverted asap
12:56:18JdGordonthe reason is the settings are being rude and for some reason not saving
12:56:19linuxstbDksaarth_: I don't believe anyone is working on it.
12:56:34Dksaarth_hmm
12:56:45Dksaarth_has it been started at all ?
12:56:47linuxstbDksaarth_: Personally, I just use generic accessories, not ones tied to a specific mp3 player.
12:56:52JdGordonamiconn: I figured it would be better having this temporarily and fix the problem than have settings not saving
12:57:09Dksaarth_im totally new to the rockbox thing, but am interested in trying to do some coding
12:57:17amiconnA kludge is usually worse than leaving the problem there for a proper fix
12:57:29linuxstbDksaarth_: There is some code in the ipodlinux kernel for the serial port, but according to the IPL developers it doesn't work.
12:57:30amiconnKludges make people forget that there is a problem
12:57:33scorcheJdGordon: i would agree if there wasnt an option to save your settings to a file, which there is of course
12:57:54JdGordonok, ill revert it if thats the general concensus?
12:57:59amiconnSpeaking about settings - for some reason the backlight timeout on h1x0 doesn't behave...
12:58:27*Dksaarth_ goes off to read about the serial port for the IPL kernel
12:58:31scorchewell, so far, just amiconn and i have spoken out
12:58:31Dksaarth_thanks
12:58:38scorchethirded anyone?
12:58:48amiconnIt seems that it loads the correct timeout on boot, but doesn't tell the backlight driver
12:59:12amiconnEntering and leaving the option once fixes it until shutdown
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13:00
13:00:01Lloreanamiconn: When rockbox.ipod is loaded into the firmware partition on iPods, the first button press won't turn on the backlight, but as soon as the timeout occurs and fading begins, the backlight lights up solely to fade out, then works as normal. I don't know if that's related at all.
13:00:04r33Hi
13:00:44r33how i reset my ipod whit rockbox ?
13:00:49r33it's freezed!
13:00:52 Quit spiorf (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
13:00:55r33therarent any reset button help!
13:00:58scorchesame way you always did
13:01:19 Join spiorf [0] (n=spiorf@87.14.210.32)
13:01:30Dksaarth_what ipod is it ?
13:01:35r33ipod nano
13:01:39scorcheDksaarth_: all ipods are the same...
13:01:39amiconnLlorean: That's a different problem. Main rockbox expects the backlight to be on at boot (switched on by the bootloader), but that doesn't happen when there is no bootloader
13:01:40r331st generation
13:01:44Dksaarth_to reset the nano's you hold the middle button and top button for 4 seconds
13:01:57scorche5 actually, in most cases
13:02:00Dksaarth_thanks scorche, didn't know that
13:02:01r33the menu button and the play button ?
13:02:01Dksaarth_heh
13:02:09scorcheno...select and play
13:02:11r33ok
13:02:13Dksaarth_middle
13:02:15Dksaarth_above play
13:02:21r33but the baclight it's alwais on
13:02:24r33the system is blocked
13:02:29r33doesn't respond!
13:02:29*JdGordon sees if he can beat barrywardell's commit message length
13:02:32Lloreanamiconn: I thought it was something like that, but it seems odd that keypresses don't bring it up.
13:02:46Dksaarth_its a hardware reset, should work, just make sure u hold both buttons for long enough
13:02:49scorcher33: just do what we told you
13:03:15r33doesn't work!:(
13:03:24scorchethen hold it longer
13:03:28GodEater_Webyeah
13:03:32GodEater_WebI've had to do it for a minute
13:03:33r33the ipod is totally freezed
13:03:35GodEater_Websometimes
13:03:42amiconnLlorean: It's not odd. The code "thinks" the light is on, so subsequent keypresses do nothing
13:03:46scorchestop whining and hold it...it will work
13:04:00scorcheGodEater_Web: max it should take is 30 seconds, cut that is rare
13:04:05scorches/cut/but
13:04:07Lloreanamiconn: Ah, gotcha.
13:04:21GodEater_Webscorche: yeah it doesn't happen often
13:04:34r33nada it doesnt work :(
13:04:44scorcheJdGordon: while you are at it, beat kkrubjun's score too
13:04:49Dksaarth_u got hold on r33?
13:04:53Dksaarth_it works
13:04:54Lloreanr33: Turn hold on, then turn hold off, then hold MENU plus the SELECT (center) button. Do not let your fingers even touch the other buttons, nor wiggle.
13:04:54scorcher33: do you have....yeah
13:04:55r33yes
13:05:08r33i hold the center button and the play button
13:05:09JdGordonscorche: na, im not that skilled :D
13:05:13Dksaarth_sigh
13:05:15Dksaarth_not the play button
13:05:16scorchewe said center and menu
13:05:16Lloreanr33: Nobody said the play button
13:05:20Dksaarth_center button and MENU button
13:05:30r33<scorche> no...select and play
13:05:44scorcheheh...
13:05:46r33okkkkkkkkkk
13:05:48r33workkkkkkkkkkk
13:05:48scorches/play/menu
13:05:54r33Thanks :)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
13:05:54r33:)
13:06:05*scorche got distracted by you saying play ;)
13:06:06Dksaarth_np
13:06:12r33and another thing where i can find plugin for rockbox?
13:06:19scorcheall plugins are included
13:06:20linuxstbLlorean: When you have a chance, can you update to the latest CVS, compile yourself a new bootloader, write it with "-wf" and try loading the apple_os.ipod file again?
13:06:24r33Soap ok :)
13:06:31r33*scorche ok:)
13:06:39Lloreanlinuxstb: I can do that right now.
13:06:50*Llorean waits for VMWare player to load.
13:06:54JdGordonshold the status bar be drawn on the runtime screen?
13:07:53amiconnImho it should
13:07:54***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
13:08:13amiconnStatus bar should be on all core screens if enabled
13:08:41amiconnDebug screens are an exception of course
13:08:56habanagloups, cant find sansa on cvs page , what's happense
13:09:04habana build broken ?
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13:09:25habanaoups, found it
13:09:34habanasorry :)
13:11:50Lloreanlinuxstb: It works! At least, Apple_OS boots from file, and can play music and USB connect (both things that froze last way back when), I can't test Nike features, of course, so I don't know how well it plays with the RCSC
13:13:09Bagderhabana: the build was broken for a short while
13:13:14barrywardelldoes that mean the new crt0 fixed it? :)
13:13:31habanaBagder:thanks
13:14:43linuxstbLlorean: Good news.
13:15:00LloreanIf I update to a CVS build, might ROLO work as well?
13:15:12linuxstbI don't think so.
13:15:30LloreanWasn't sure if those were at all related.
13:15:38linuxstbWe need to do things to the COP to prepare it for starting the Apple firmware. Those things happen in the bootloader, but not in rolo.
13:15:45LloreanAh
13:16:02linuxstbAnd barrywardell's commit seems to fix what the bootloader was doing.
13:16:15habanaBagder: played yesterday with a few plugins, really amazing :)
13:16:36barrywardelldoes that mean we could just apply the same fixes to rolo and it would work?
13:16:41LloreanROLO would be quite nice, because then I can have very fast Rockbox boots + the option to boot Apple_OS for transfers
13:17:12barrywardelllinuxstb: have you tested ROLO with the new crt0 yet?
13:17:16linuxstbLlorean: Exactly... No need for a bootloader menu, just click in your "Start Apple Firmware.ipod" file in the file browser.
13:17:44LloreanIt would be lovely.
13:18:13JdGordonok, the most important question for the night.... in the info menu, where should the running time item be? 3rd between version and debug?
13:18:33linuxstbbarrywardell: No. We need to ensure both the COP and main CPU branch to 0x10000000 when starting the Apple firmware. At the moment, I doubt the COP does that.
13:18:35LinusNJdGordon: /*settings_save();*/
13:18:41LinusNwhy not remove it?
13:19:07JdGordonumm...
13:19:53JdGordonI still think the band-aid solution shhuold apply here, I gues its easier to uncomment then type the whole call again if people want to put it back
13:20:03JdGordonshuold I remove it properly?
13:20:04linuxstbLlorean: The IPL kernel probably works with ROLO though - try http://www.davechapman.f2s.com/rockbox/2006-12-10-kernel.ipod
13:20:21LinusNJdGordon: yes i think so
13:20:25linuxstbIt should work, then give you an error about a missing root filesystem.
13:20:57JdGordonbah, ok
13:21:02amiconnlinuxstb: Speaking about linux - I don't understand why ipl requires an ext2 partition
13:21:28*Llorean goes to test
13:21:29Bagderit shouldn't need to
13:21:40amiconnIirc there once was an extension called UMSDOS that allowed a linux kernel to run from a FAT partition
13:21:45linuxstbI think it's simply that no-one has attempted to remove that dependency.
13:21:55linuxstb(or no-one that knows enough about Linux)
13:22:08BagderI doubt hardly anyone builds their own linux kernel for ipl
13:22:13amiconnI wonder whether that could be applied to ipl (not that I'd need ipl, but this way it wouldn't take away too much valuable space)
13:22:29Lloreanlinuxstb: Checksum error
13:22:31Bagderamiconn: it is probably just a matter of reconfiguring and rebuilding
13:22:38linuxstbLlorean: Ah, of course. I'll fix.
13:22:45linuxstb(it's built for my Photo)
13:22:49LloreanHeh
13:23:06LloreanApple_OS.bin at least tries to do something when it says "Executing" because my earphones pop slightly
13:23:44LloreanI bet a version of IPL that could be run from a FAT32 partition (and thusly ROLOd) would actually be rather welcome among the gamer folk that we seem to attract
13:23:58linuxstbTry http://www.davechapman.f2s.com/rockbox/kernel-nano.ipod
13:24:25Bagderwhen you build linux, you enable/disable each file system you want to support. ext2 and fat are equivalent in the eyes of the kernel
13:24:39linuxstbCan you create device nodes on a FAT32 partition though/
13:24:40linuxstb?
13:24:41Lloreanlinuxstb: Much larger than the last file I downloaded
13:24:48Bagderah
13:24:58Bagderdev files might be hard
13:25:07Lloreanlinuxstb: Yup, "unable to mount root fs"
13:25:07linuxstbA ramfs filesystem?
13:25:08Bagderthose would need a small ramfs
13:25:11linuxstb:)
13:25:14Bagderhaha
13:25:57linuxstbLlorean: OK, that's good news. At least rolo seems more reliable now. We just need to fix the COP and hopefully the apple firmware will start.
13:26:07 Quit GodEater_Web ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
13:26:08LloreanCool
13:26:26amiconnlinuxstb: Iiuc UMSDOS solves the device node problem
13:26:40markunpetur: how's the USB stack coming along? ;-)
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13:27:22Bagderamiconn: most probably by using a ramfs... :-)
13:27:28*petur reminds Linus of tracing VBUS and ID on the h3x0 usbotg connector (please)
13:27:31amiconnSomehow I doubt that
13:27:50Bagderthen can of course patch the fat fs too
13:27:53Bagderthey
13:27:56peturmarkun: not looked at it for several weeks
13:28:00linuxstbamiconn: Yes, I remember it from many, many years ago. I think a ramfs would be a nicer solution though - umsdos uses extra files in every directory IIRC.
13:28:04amiconnhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UMSDOS
13:28:38peturmarkun: next free time to do rockbox will be early januari 2007
13:29:20GodEater_WebUMSDOS's performance *sucks*
13:31:43amiconnSeems to be unmaintained for too long. No signs of VFAT or FAT32
13:32:47amiconnlinuxstb: Do you know whether linux can handle symlinks on FAT32 (perhaps using .lnk files?) (shrug)
13:33:46linuxstbI've no idea. I could try...
13:34:16BagderI doubt it does
13:34:31Bagder.lnk files are not on fs level
13:35:05linuxstbln: creating symbolic link `b' to `a': Operation not permitted
13:35:32linuxstbln: creating hard link `b' to `a': Operation not permitted
13:35:38*petur thought only NTFS supported symlinks (as far as windows is concerned)
13:35:51SeedMy H320 is lost in the big convoluted system of the British mail
13:35:53GodEater_WebI'd be surprised if it did!
13:35:56Seed"whaaaaaa!"
13:38:11markunSeed: are they insured for things like this?
13:39:13Seedit was not
13:39:26Seedbut it's eBay and the seller is willing to compensate me
13:39:31SeedI hope it arrives after all
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13:41:34amiconnpetur: NTFS supports reparse points, of which junctions are one flavour (like symlinks on *nix, but not widely used). The windows way of 'symlinks' works on all filesystems
13:42:28peturso you mean shortcuts?
13:42:44amiconnyes
13:43:12linuxstbDoes NTFS allow you to delete open (read-only) files?
13:43:31peturnope
13:43:54peturat least I think it doesn't
13:44:12Bagderisn't that the kernel rather than the fs that decides it?
13:46:05linuxstbI thought it was related to the concept of hard links. i.e. a file will have a count of how many links there are to it, when that link count goes to zero, and nothing has it open, then it's removed.
13:46:50linuxstbi.e. a delete won't immediately delete, just decrement the link count. But I could be making this up...
13:47:23Bagder:-)
13:47:28peturthere's an option when opening a file to have it deleted after closing (for temp files)
13:47:43linuxstb"man 2 unlink"
13:48:06peturand you can have some file stuff done at boot time for files that are in use
13:50:20LloreanI remember reading that if you deleted any hardlinked file's link, it would delete the file (but leave the other invalid links).
13:50:35LloreanBut I can't remember where I read that.
13:50:39LloreanOr how reliable a source it was.
13:50:42linuxstbI think that's soft (symbolic) links.
13:50:47LloreanIt was some Win2K documentation, ages ago.
13:50:51linuxstbAh...
13:51:16LloreanIt may have been symbolic, actually
13:51:19LloreanAs I said, ages ago.
13:51:25LloreanAnd the terms weren't the same.
13:51:28Bagderrm: cannot remove `file': Permission denied
13:51:38Bagderon linux if the FAT file is open
13:52:08Bagderhm, or perhaps not
13:52:15*Bagder is stupid
13:53:01Bagderyou _can_ delete the file while it is open
13:53:25linuxstbAre you sure it's open? Does lsof show it?
13:53:45*petur is interrupted to do more work
13:53:51 Quit petur ("worrrk")
13:54:08Bagderyes it does
13:54:13 Quit Nico_P (Remote closed the connection)
13:54:33BagderI did 'hexdump -C file | less'
13:54:38Bagderverified with lsof that it is open
13:54:41Bagderremoved the file
13:54:44linuxstbThat would definitely show it's more kernel-related than filesystem...
13:54:48Bagdercontinued to dump the file with hexdump
13:57:11linuxstbI've just confirmed. After the rm, lsof shows (deleted) after the filename.
13:57:50Bagderah, I didn't notice that
14:00
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14:02:05patrickvoxdoes anyone know by default, which config-file is being used when an IPOD 5G is being boot up? Is it config01.cfg or config02.cfg ?
14:02:22JdGordonnone
14:03:34scorcheor rather, none of the above
14:03:37patrickvoxjdgordon: how do we force it to default to a certin config file when it boots up ?
14:03:44JdGordonyou dont
14:03:57JdGordonno config fils are read on boot
14:04:00 Quit GodEater_Web ("CGI:IRC")
14:04:10patrickvoxso it boots up with a default config
14:04:21patrickvoxfrom there, you load up your settings based on the selected config-file ?
14:04:25JdGordonit reads your settings of a hidden part of the hard disk
14:04:27scorchewell, one is that you dont have access to
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14:05:35GodEater_Webwhat were we looking at earlier re: differences between 5G and 5.5g firmwares?
14:06:29CassandraI see Barry's done some really nice work with the Sansa/H10 bootloader.
14:07:22LloreanCassandra: It also fixed loading apple_os.ipod from file, on Nano at least.
14:08:14GodEater_WebI have an early 5G firmware with a different checksum to the 5.5G
14:08:23GodEater_Webnot sure if that's any use to anyone
14:08:30CassandraThat's good, although there's very little practical use for that IMHO.
14:09:25LloreanCassandra: Well, it's one step closer to a working ROLO into it, which would allow, at least on Nano, a significantly faster Rockbox boot time.
14:09:41amiconnLinusN: Do you have an opinion on how to use the X5 dual-colour LED?
14:09:57amiconnImho using it just for charging indication is a bit of a waste
14:10:01CassandraIt would? Nano boot time is pretty much instantaneous anyway.
14:10:18GodEater_Webpretty blinkenlights at christmas amiconn :)
14:10:38LloreanCassandra: If you load Rockbox.ipod into the firmware partition, it's quite a bit faster, because you don't have to sit through the bootloader.
14:10:47LloreanIt drops to about 2.5 seconds.
14:10:50amiconnOn archos we also use the red LED for a different purpose that the of, but then this LED isn't labeled, unlike the X5 one...
14:10:50CassandraCan you support it as a seperate screen a la H100 remote.
14:10:56LinusNamiconn: i don't have a good idea, maybe clipping indication when recording?
14:11:31amiconnI thought we could use the green part as charging indicator, and the red part as a hd / recording indicator led
14:11:50amiconnWould match closely to what we have on archos and h1x0
14:11:56 Quit r33 ()
14:12:22CassandraLlorean, my vanilla iPod loads Rockbox in under 2 secs. I don't really understand what you're talking about.
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14:12:37CassandraOr how having a working ROLO would speed this up.
14:12:37amiconnBoth parts can be switched independently, they're hooked up to PCF50605 GPO pins
14:12:43LloreanCassandra: Are you including the time in-bootloader, and the time the Apple Logo displays?
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14:12:55LloreanBecause my Nano's closer to 4 seconds with that.
14:13:26CassandraMaybe an extra second with the Apple time.
14:13:41CassandraI still don't really see 3-4 secs as a long loading time.
14:13:52CassandraParticularly compared to the Apple f/w.
14:14:01amiconnGreen LED on h1x0 is charging indicator (hardwired), on archos it's power (also hardwired). So using the green LED for charging indication would match h1x0
14:14:25LloreanCassandra: I don't see why it being not-long is any reason why it shouldn't be shorter, though.
14:14:48amiconnRed LED on archos is ATA/recording (controllable), on h1x0 it's ATA (hardwired, but disableable).
14:14:49LloreanI mean, boot time on H120 is short, but loading Rockbox into flash makes it shorter still.
14:14:49 Quit JdGordon ("Konversation terminated!")
14:15:16amiconnI wouldn't call it short
14:15:29amiconn(okay, short in comparison to the of)
14:15:35Lloreanamiconn: Well, that's what I meant. :)
14:15:50CassandraLlorean, well, if someone wants to do it, it'll get done. That's the beauty of open source. But what would a working LILO gain you that installing Rockbox direct in the boot partition wouldn't?
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14:16:39LloreanCassandra: A working ROLO goes with installing Rockbox straight in the boot partition. I can already load Rockbox from the boot partition, for the faster boots, but that leaves me with only the ultra-slow disk mode Nanos have. Spending 2 hours to transfer a few files is not a worthy tradeoff for 2 seconds shorter boot right now.
14:17:08LloreanIt's not a big deal, or anything, having those extra 2 seconds
14:17:13LloreanAnd a native USB mode would solve the same problem.
14:17:18LloreanAt least, from my perspective
14:17:24CassandraBut didn't you say earlier that roloing apple_os already worked.
14:17:28amiconnLinusN: What concerns me is that people might not read the manual, and might conclude that the battery is charged when they see the 'charge' led being green
14:17:28LloreanNo.
14:17:34LloreanRoloing apple_os doesn't work yet.
14:17:50LloreanThe bootloader can load it from apple_os.ipod if it's not found to be in the firmware partition, though.
14:18:10CassandraAh right.
14:18:16CassandraWell I imagine it'll come.
14:18:18LloreanYeah
14:18:20LloreanI imagine so.
14:19:18CassandraI want a new computer. This one keeps swappihng.
14:19:21LloreanIt can also ROLO the iPod linux kernel, though that's not terribly useful at the moment.
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14:22:58Cassandra*laughs* Well well, the iPhone did get released yesterday. By Cisco, who apparently own the trademark.
14:23:08linuxstbhehe
14:23:09LloreanApple's gotta love that one.
14:23:43 Quit barrywardell ()
14:23:53scorchehaha...link?
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14:25:38Cassandrahttp://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/dec2006/tc20061218_465203.htm?chan=technology_technology+index+page_today%27s+top+stories
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14:28:17GodEater_Webok - I just tried booting a really old 5G firmware on my 5.5G - appeared to work fine
14:28:37GodEater_Webso the disk handling must be the same
14:29:36CassandraWeirdl.
14:29:49CassandraGotta go.
14:29:56 Quit Cassandra (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Go on, try it!")
14:30:28LinusNGodEater_Web: i think the problem is simple. we somehow fail to enable PIO mode on it. once we manage to do that, we should be allright
14:31:52amiconnGodEater_Web: Did you also try USB mode while running that old firmware?
14:32:04linuxstbLinusN: Does the "EIDE" description here: http://www.ipodlinux.org/PP5020 and the code in ata_device_init() in firmware/target/arm/pp-5020.c make any sense to you?
14:32:08amiconn...and ipodpatcher −−list, to see what sector size it reports?
14:32:42linuxstb^firmware/target/arm/ata-pp5020.c
14:33:00GodEater_Webamiconn: no I didn't - can do though
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14:33:20GodEater_Webwill have to wait a sec
14:33:21amiconnlinuxstb: Does ipodpatcher get the sector size from the device or from reading the partition?
14:33:31GodEater_Webthe device
14:33:35GodEater_Webit's an ioctl call
14:33:38linuxstbFrom the device using a "disk geometry" ioctl.
14:34:57*amiconn suspects that the usb implementation might reside in the rom
14:35:01GodEater_WebI did an ipodpatcher list
14:35:09GodEater_Webit reported 512 as expected
14:35:34GodEater_Websame firmware version too
14:35:40GodEater_Webbut the checksum was different
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14:37:53amiconn512?
14:38:00amiconnThat's...interesting
14:38:04LinusNindeed
14:38:16amiconnSo the usb implementation is not in rom
14:38:46LinusNdoesn't that depend on when you insert the usb cable?
14:38:55linuxstbIf you want to risk bricking your ipod, you could attempt to flash the AUPD image in your copy of the old 5g firmware. Unless that's already happened?
14:39:57linuxstbI think there's a bit which is set in the header of the AUPD image to say if it's been flashed or not.
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14:44:56scorcheheh...we finally say "bricking your ipod"
14:45:42GodEater_Weboh no hang on a sec
14:45:57GodEater_Webyou mean what did ipodpatcher say for sector size when I put it back again ?
14:46:14GodEater_Weblemme double check
14:48:35GodEater_Webbooting into the old version of the firmware now
14:48:50GodEater_Webok - it's up - plugged into usb...
14:48:52linuxstbHow did you install the 5g firmware? Are you using an apple_os.ipod file, or did you replace the firmware partition with a copy of a 5g's firmware partition.
14:49:11webguest13register rw4452
14:49:12GodEater_Webcurrently with an apple_os.ipod
14:49:24GodEater_Webbut can do it with the bootpart.bin
14:49:27GodEater_Webif you'd prefer ?
14:49:40GodEater_Webbtw - sector size is still reported as 2048
14:50:41GodEater_Webwant me to try with bootpart.bin from the old 5g?
14:50:49webguest13robin0800
14:51:12linuxstbIt's definitely loading the correct apple firmware? What version info does it display in the About screen?
14:51:27GodEater_Webone second
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14:53:57linuxstbI'm not sure if writing the 5g bootpart.bin will work, but you could try. Should be harmless... (he says...)
14:54:06amiconnlinuxstb: If the apple flash firmware doesn't protect itself from flashing an older version, it might be possible to convert a 5.5th gen into a 5th gen software wise...
14:56:18linuxstbYes, but what would that gain us, now that we fully support the 2048-byte sectors?
14:58:14linuxstbBut it seems as if Apple's firmware is treating the 80GB disk in the same way as any other, so a disassembly of any 5g version of the flash should help.
14:58:55GodEater_Webok - where do I look to se which firmware it's loading ?
14:59:09GodEater_WebI'm in the about screen
14:59:30linuxstbIt doesn't display a version number (e.g 1.1, 1.2, 1.3) ?
14:59:38GodEater_WebVersion is 1.2
15:00
15:00:03GodEater_WebModel is MA450FB
15:00:05linuxstbI _think_ the latest 5g/5.5g firmware is 1.3, but I'm not sure.
15:00:24GodEater_WebI'll put it back and see
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15:01:36GodEater_Webthe old bootpart doesn't work
15:02:22GodEater_WebI just get "connect your ipod to itunes and restore" message
15:02:43amiconnMight be a sector size mismatch problem
15:02:50GodEater_Webalmost certainly is
15:03:03GodEater_Webalthough having said that
15:03:15GodEater_Webaren't they both presented as 512 on the ipod itself ?
15:03:58GodEater_Webbtw - it *was* harmless :) Original bootpart is booting it up now.
15:04:10GodEater_WebVersion there reports 1.2.1
15:04:27linuxstbYes, the format of the boot partitions are slightly different between the two sector sizes - so I'm not surprised it didn't work.
15:05:06linuxstbSo my suggestion would be a dissassembly of any 5g flash dump.
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15:05:18GodEater_WebI thought disassembling both .ipod files and doing a diff might help - it didn't
15:05:29GodEater_Webdiff was 131M :)
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15:06:24linuxstbI can see references in a flash disassembly to 0xc30001e0, the IDE0 status register according to the IPL wiki, but we don't seem to use it in Rockbox.
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15:07:58***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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15:08:44GodEater_Webwhere'd you get the flash disassembly from ?
15:09:19linuxstbI dumped the flash from a 5g a while ago. Then simply "arm-elf-objdump", but it's not the most helpful disassembly...
15:09:56GodEater_Webhow big isi t ?
15:10:40linuxstbI dumped 1MB, but IIRC only 512KB is used
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15:26:19GodEater_Webperhaps we should put something into ata_device_init() to do something with that register too
15:27:05Bagderall the other PP bootloaders use ARM thumb mode
15:28:12GodEater_Webwhat's that when it's at home ?
15:29:06daurnHAHAHA
15:29:07daurnhttp://www.explosm.net/db/files/Comics/Matt/and-that-is-where-babies-come-from.png
15:32:35linuxstbGodEater_Web: Forget my comment about that register, it's defined in Rockbox as ATA_CONTROL register....
15:32:58GodEater_Webyeah I saw
15:33:16GodEater_Webwell ATA_IOBASE
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15:33:29linuxstbGodEater_Web: Thumb mode is a 16-bit instruction set, In "normal" ARM mode, instructions are 32-bit.
15:34:25linuxstbSorry, yes, ATA_IOBASE.
15:34:42linuxstbaka ATA_DATA
15:35:17GodEater_Webah yes
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15:44:39*Genre9mp3 waves and disconnects
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15:48:09GodEater_Webis #ipodlinux as active as this channel ?
15:48:23LinusNtry it
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15:49:34GodEater_Webdoes your CGI:IRC install permit me to join other channels ?
15:49:52*GodEater_Web didn't think it did
15:49:52linuxstbNope.
15:50:00GodEater_Webthen I'll have to wait till I get home
15:50:08linuxstbAnd no, #ipodlinux is pretty much dead these days.
15:50:15GodEater_Webshame
15:50:19 Nick jborn_ is now known as JoeBorn (n=jborn@dsl017-022-247.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net)
15:50:20*jhMikeS can't decide if it's better to use intptr_t or uintptr_t as event data in queues. The void * pointer scheme should go.
15:50:25webguest20I see how much effort is made to get the things right on all platforms. I've also read that iPod nano 2G is a completely new architecture. But that also means that the manufacturers also have to implement all the features anew with every device model. And devices are brought to the market en masse...
15:50:33linuxstb(but I see a few of their devs lurking here at the moment...)
15:50:35GodEater_Webthanks for the zip file linuxstb btw - I only just noticed the link :)
15:51:40webguest20linuxstb: really? And you know who they are? Do they try to 'steal' solutions for some problems (e.g. sound codecs)?
15:52:09*GodEater_Web spots someone who doesn't get open source
15:52:11linuxstbBoth projects release code under the GPL, so there's no "stealing".
15:53:14webguest20E.g. apple: they've created an awsome infrastructure. You plug in your ipod and it gets synchronized automatically. Amazing!
15:53:34scorchewhat are you attempting to get at?
15:53:39webguest20linuxstb: what projects do you mean? RB and ...?
15:53:48scorcheipodlinux
15:54:38webguest20scorche: no, I mean the commercial firmwares (in my previous lengthy post)
15:54:55scorcheyes, but i dont see what you are trying to get at
15:55:18scorcheand he meant for that statement to go to GodEater_Web
15:55:56GodEater_Webwho got it, and is wondering what form of narcolepsy is afflicting the poor ipodlinux devs
15:57:29webguest20E.g. iriver firmware. Or sansa FW. Or Philips. Or Thomson... (I can name more) Every FW is a major software project. And they make a new device every year!
15:57:39linuxstbMaybe I've just missed it, but I've never seen real IPL development talk in #ipodlinux (or even #ipodlinux-dev) anyway. I just think they are a more private group than us.
15:57:52GodEater_Webso private they don't even talk to each other :)
15:57:55scorchewebguest20: for the last time, what are you getting at by saying this?
15:58:02GodEater_Webmaybe they've mastered telepathy
15:58:06linuxstbwebguest20: What makes you think they don't reuse existing code? Apple doesn't rewrite itunes from scratch each time they release a new ipod...
15:58:33webguest20scorche: I just wonder where they get capacities.
15:58:39scorchewebguest20: implementing features and porting to a new device is made much easier when you have huge resources and datasheets of the hardware instead of being in the dark about it all
15:58:50linuxstbFull-time paid developers help...
15:58:57webguest20linuxstb: itunes yes. But the FW for nano 2G must be rewritten.
15:59:08GodEater_Webwhat a a load of crap
15:59:12GodEater_Webit just needs to be recompiled
15:59:17GodEater_Webwith a bit of tweaking here and there
15:59:19LinusNi don't think the apple software developers have the data sheets for the portalplayer hardware
15:59:23GodEater_Webthey don't start from scratch
15:59:36scorcheLinusN: but they know much more about it than we do
15:59:51linuxstbThey'll have a nice SDK with APIs and example code...
16:00
16:00:04webguest20LinusN: why not? How do the develop then?
16:00:07GodEater_Webhehehe - can you imagine them stitting there like us trying to work stuff out by guessing ?
16:00:12scorchethey also know how to get past their own encryption and as i said, know much more about the hardware than we do
16:00:20LinusNportalplayer has a huge software library that they use
16:00:21scorchewebguest20: see linuxstb's statement
16:01:12LinusNyou don't just buy the chips from portalplayer, you buy a complete SDK
16:01:38webguest20LinusN: ...which is of course private, right? And not for sale? And if for sale then too expensive for a project like RB.
16:01:49scorchecorrect
16:01:56LinusNvery private
16:02:08linuxstbWe wouldn't/couldn't use their SDK anyway, unless they made it open-source.
16:02:16webguest20LinusN: aha! I never knew how "professional" development of FW goes.
16:02:46dewdudeheh, developing FW is almost as intensive as writing a os...which, is basically what they're doing
16:03:18webguest20 Heh, FW _is_ an OS
16:03:21LinusNafaik, the portalplayer platform sdk includes the os
16:03:43scorchewebguest20: not always
16:03:51linuxstbAs demonstrated by the similarity in the firmwares from almost every manufacturer of PP-based DAPs.
16:03:58LinusNexactly
16:04:24LinusNmost chipset manufacturers have the same concept
16:04:53dewdudebuild-one/supply-hundreds
16:04:59webguest20LinusN: hmm... well but RB has an OS since long time. But there are still difficulties with drivers, right? Since there's no information about the HW.
16:05:24scorcheon some targets, yes
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16:05:45LinusNyes, the problem with rockbox is that we need all details about the hardware
16:06:23GodEater_Webhaving ALL the details would be nice - but we don't NEED all of them... just enough to run the bits that RB requires surely ?
16:06:36linuxstbThe more we know, the better RB runs.
16:06:39webguest20I think beginning at some point, creating a RB port for a new platform should be a breeze. Just write a couple of drivers. And their number is also very limited since the chips are the same.
16:06:40GodEater_Webnaturally
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16:07:43webguest20So how far is RB from the "saturation" point (where no chips without an RB driver exist)? :-)
16:07:54elinenbe_workhello all. Nice to see everyone after a little rockbox break!
16:08:07*LinusN bows
16:08:11dewdudewebguest20, i don't think it'll be entirely that easy
16:08:54LinusNwebguest20: it is the "just write a couple of drivers" that is 90% of the rockbox development work
16:09:15LinusNor rather, 90% of the work is to reverse engineer the hardware
16:09:37LinusNand write the drivers
16:09:48Bagderand the chips are not the same
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16:09:54Bagderand not wired the same way
16:10:08LinusNand even if they are the same, they are never connected in exactly the same way
16:10:16 Nick nowotny|away is now known as nowotny (i=Miranda@aiv128.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl)
16:10:24elinenbe_workLinusN, Bagder: good to see both of you.
16:10:38LinusNi can't even imagine how many hours i spent on reverse engineering the iriver h100 hardware
16:10:50LinusNelinenbe_work: same to you
16:11:08elinenbe_workcomeon... I want zoon rockbox! but with the zoone features and rockbox features combined, and I want it now!
16:11:22elinenbe_workah!
16:11:25GodEater_WebLinusN: a bloody lot considering I followed your efforts from when you first announced them to when music started playing on it
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16:12:32LinusNyup
16:12:44dewdudei'll say this..i was anti-ipod for a long time till rockbox came along
16:12:51dewdudeeven i finally broke down and bought one
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16:14:42lexyou don't need to broke down to buy an ipod
16:14:56elinenbe_workI have been away for a bit, does the ipod port use both processors/cores (not even sure here) in the ipod?
16:15:12dewdudehah, true...figure of speech
16:15:13scorchenot as of yet....and cores
16:15:16GodEater_Weblex: you usually go broke after you've bought one :)
16:15:34lexi didn't ;o
16:15:40dewdudei did!
16:15:49dewdudealthough in all fairness, i picked up some earbuds at the same time
16:16:06lexi bought this video ipod and sennheiser cx-300
16:16:11lexand i'm happy with this
16:16:20GodEater_Webwell I've bought three this year, two as presents for other ppl, and one for me
16:16:20lexi had a photo before
16:16:24dewdudei almost bought the cx300's
16:16:33lexdewdude: buy them, they really rule
16:16:34dewdudecuz i'm such a sennheiser lover...but i picked up some Shure E3c's
16:16:44lex;(
16:16:51lexcx300's sound is so awesome
16:16:58dewdudethese shure's ain't bad
16:17:08dewdudebut i might pick up some 300's as well, just to compare
16:17:10lexbut they cost more than these
16:17:18dewdudehah, yeah
16:17:22lexa bit
16:17:29dewdude70 for the senny's vs 180 for the shure's
16:17:39elinenbe_workquestion: what Linux distros do the main developers use?
16:17:44 Quit PaulJam (".")
16:17:45webguest20LinusN: what do the "official" SDK look like? Do they operate on a separate chip? Or on a whole PCB? In the former case I don't see the point in them.
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16:18:04thegeekhumhum
16:18:07barrywardellBagder: I have some new H10 bootloaders to put up on the download site
16:18:12lexdewdude: nope, 60 :)
16:18:16scorchewebguest20: we dont know...we have never seen it
16:18:26dewdudereally? circuit city had them for 69.99 i thought
16:18:33linuxstbelinenbe_work: Debian and Ubuntu seem the most common.
16:18:36dewdude...i don't know..i'll probably nab a pair after christmas
16:18:41LinusNwebguest20: i have never seen the portalplayer sdk docs, but i have seen docs from other manufacturers
16:19:03lexdewdude: http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=162721 read that, that's the reason i bought them :)
16:19:04LinusNand they usually offer reference hw designs
16:19:16barrywardellBagder: I'll email them to you now.
16:19:16lexdewdude: 60 euros in apple store, 60 euros in my local market
16:19:16 Quit GodEater_Web ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
16:19:48Bagderbarrywardell: sure!
16:20:01elinenbe_workI was just playing around with Kororaa... the new graphics libraries are pretty interesting (in an eye-candy way)
16:20:02LinusNthe sdk consists of the OS plus the drivers and codes for the parts that are included in the chipset
16:20:03webguest20Ah, ok, good to know. So every SDK is HW specific?
16:20:09elinenbe_workIt's gentoo with AIGLX
16:20:14LinusNwebguest20: yes
16:20:21lexfood ->
16:20:28LinusNs/codes/codecs/
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16:20:41dewdudewell, i bought the e3c's from personal suggestion from a sound engineer i know
16:20:52dewdudebut the senny's were on my list of possibilities
16:21:18webguest20LinusN: you mean codecs for the specific processor (e.g. commands and register set)?
16:21:26GodEater_Webme runs gentoo - but doesn't consider himself a "main" developer
16:21:37barrywardellBagder: done!
16:21:41 Quit barrywardell ()
16:21:47GodEater_Webrepeat above with a "/" at the beginning :)
16:24:03webguest20LinusN: what feature would you wish in RB ? (Besides RB running rock solid on all platforms?)
16:24:16webguest20LinusN: one feature
16:24:46scorcheLinusN: you know you want to say a better DOOM =P
16:24:52Bagdercoffee brewing!
16:24:58LinusNcodecs, as the decoders for different audio formats, like MP3, AAc etc
16:25:04GodEater_Webscorche: you mean quake :)
16:25:22scorchespeaking of.... Bagder: i never found that flying patch in flyspray
16:25:39scorcheGodEater_Web: either way...it was a joke anyway ;)
16:25:40dewdudeheh, it would be nice for the ipod to play mp3's without getting angry and locking up
16:25:49GodEater_Webhehe
16:26:09GodEater_WebI quite like coffee brewing - well thought out that man :)
16:26:11webguest20LinusN: do you have music in that formats or is it just idealism?
16:26:35GodEater_Webthis is starting to sound like an impromtu interview....
16:26:49LinusNwebguest20: that was my answer for your question about codecs
16:27:14LinusNmy most wanted feature... i don't know really
16:27:20webguest20LinusN: no, I mean RB in general, not specifically codecs
16:27:35scorcheGodEater_Web: it very well could be...
16:27:55GodEater_Webyeah, I have this coffee brewer with an ARM9 processor...
16:28:12LinusNwebguest20: you asked "LinusN: you mean codecs for the specific processor (e.g. commands and register set)?"
16:28:26scorcheGodEater_Web: java application?
16:28:32GodEater_Webit has a builtin milk foamer that makes squeaking noises, so I'm trying to write an audio driver for it :)
16:28:34dewdudei've got a microwave with a Z80 in it...
16:28:39TheCollectortoo bad none of these devices have any HW for graphics acceleration
16:28:47TheCollectorcause quake will run on an arm7
16:29:08dewdudequake originally was software rendered 3d
16:29:19dewdudecuz i'd get a whopping 8fps on my 486
16:29:24TheCollectorhehe
16:29:24 Quit webguest20 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
16:29:43dewdude...now i run direct3d quake and get over 300
16:30:02TheCollectordewdude: at my last job a friend of mine hacked up quake to run on the TI OMAP2420
16:30:12dewdudehaha
16:30:25TheCollectorgood times having deathmatches on devel boards when everyone went home
16:30:36dewdudei can imagine
16:30:40scorchehrm...i guess it has been daylight for a little more than 2 hours now...
16:30:42scorchegoodnight
16:30:56Bagderdaylight? luxury! ;-P
16:31:45TheCollectorhe got quake2 runnign as well, but never optimized it, so it was pretty choppy
16:31:46dewdudeyeah, i gotta pipe mine in
16:31:48scorchenot really ;)
16:31:49dewdudethat and the broadband
16:31:51TheCollector*running
16:31:56dewdudehaha
16:32:05dewdudeyeah, quake2 was quite cpu intensive if you tried to run software rendering
16:32:18dewdudei remmeber my 3dfx voodoo addon card ran it tho.
16:32:22TheCollectoryep
16:32:34dewdudei thought that was like...the thing 10 years ago....
16:32:40TheCollectorhehe
16:32:41dewdudeaddon 3d cards
16:32:47TheCollectorit still is the thing for some of us :D
16:32:52dewdudehaha
16:32:56TheCollectoroh, I meant quake2
16:33:00dewdudehaha
16:33:16 Join My_Sic [0] (n=MySic@m64.net81-67-5.noos.fr)
16:33:16dewdude10 years ago i wasn't really gaming, i had a 486
16:33:21dewdudeimagine my fun trying to do mp3's on that
16:33:23TheCollectorlinux severely impedes one's ability to play modern games :(
16:33:28dewdudecedega!
16:33:30dewdudeFTW
16:33:34TheCollectorsometimes
16:33:37dewdudeyeah
16:33:42dewdudei tried doing san andreas in it...no go
16:33:46GodEater_WebNeverwinter Nights 2 is being ported :)
16:33:46TheCollectorheh
16:34:02scorchedewdude: heh...this is the video card in this comp: S3 Inc. 86c325 [ViRGE]
16:34:04dewdudei about blew a load when Postal2 came out for linux
16:34:05TheCollectorI'd love to see the later C&C stuff ported
16:34:12*GodEater_Web spots the offtopic warning lights starting to flash
16:34:33Bagderbright blinking too
16:34:34*scorche also remembers that he said he was going to sleep
16:34:40Galoislinux is no impediment at all. Get an xbox 360 or whatever.
16:34:52dewdudebah...console gaming
16:35:08GodEater_Webnothing wrong with them
16:35:11GodEater_WebI like mine
16:35:18dewdudei still have my first mp3 player around here somewhere...i built it back in 1997 using some plans i found online
16:35:52*LinusN feels guilty for not porting rockbox to his OSCAR board
16:35:53dewdudebasically a CD-rom with controller card, DAC, amp, and l3 decoder on a card strapped to it
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16:52:10 Join PaulPosition [0] (n=noneofye@modemcable115.145-82-70.mc.videotron.ca)
16:52:19PaulPositionWow...
16:52:52dewdudewhat?
16:53:56LinusNwow!!!!!!
16:55:46PaulPositionOkay. Barry committed dualboot-enabling patches for H10 and I need to complete my tutorial so the guys over at mistiriver don't all have a heartattack... :p
16:55:55Bagderhaha
16:56:26dewdudeok, so, i've gotten nothing out of wiki....the fourm search is apparently broken..so i guess i'll finally ask in here...anyone know what the deal is with mp3 support on the ipod...becuase my unit starts to lagging when playing mp3's...
16:56:40 Join _FireFly_ [0] (n=FireFly@fhrouter83.fh-wuerzburg.de)
16:56:47linuxstbTried the IpodStatus wiki page? Maybe also IpodFAQ?
16:57:05linuxstbAlso, what ipod do you have?
16:57:13PaulPositionThing is, it need a new bootloader to go with it and I don't know where, from rockbox.org, to point people to... :o (I make my own, but I dont have webspace to share..)
16:57:23 Quit mathgl (Remote closed the connection)
16:57:31scorchemeh...nvm...no sleep for me tonight/today
16:57:36BagderPaulPosition: I'll update download.rockbox.org later tonight
16:57:38dewdudeheh, i glanced over those...i guess i should read them rather than playing with this thing
16:57:44dewdudeit's a 5.5g 30 gig
16:58:10scorchedewdude: what WPS are you using?
16:58:14PaulPositionBadger - Okay, so that means there aren't bootloader that are auto-built right?
16:58:18dewdudedark-geek
16:58:30BagderPaulPosition: the autobuilt ones are not provided for download
16:58:37scorcheand are you using the EQ and/or crossfade?
16:58:45dewdudewell, EQ yes.
16:58:58scorchetry turning that off
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16:59:10dewdudeyes, that does help....but flac works just fine with eq on.
16:59:37dewdudeand it still seems to want to be a little grumpy even then
16:59:38PaulPositionBadger: Thanks. I'll see if I can put one somewhere else, maybe attach to a post, in the meantime and adjust my links when ever I could. :)
16:59:38linuxstbFLAC needs significantly less CPU to decode.
16:59:42LinusNdewdude: forum search fixed, thanks for reporting
17:00
17:00:04GodEater_Webwhere does the error "ATA: -70" get generated ?
17:00:07scorcheLinusN: what is it that causes that anyway?
17:01:13LinusNscorche: i don't know, the search result database table gets corrupted
17:02:05scorchedo you know if it is something to do with our forums or a general bug with SMF?
17:02:31LinusNGodEater_Web: hmmm, looks like set_features returns -10
17:03:18 Join kitno455 [0] (n=man@tfhs.net)
17:03:38GodEater_Webthere's a -70 at the bottom of ata_init() - I put my code in a dumb place - it's all my fault :)
17:04:11LinusN:-)
17:07:50GodEater_Webcan someone help me with the right bits to put into set_features() to make sure I've turned UDMA4 off?
17:08:00***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
17:08:24amiconnLinusN: How can set_features return -10?
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17:08:49amiconnThat would mean something went wrong while trying to set the first feature,
17:09:07LinusNamiconn: it probably can't, but that's the only explanation i could find when looking at the code
17:09:24amiconnbut the first feature is power management, and according to the identify data the drive doesn't support this feature
17:09:38GodEater_Webshouldn't word 88 indicate we've deselected UDMA after the set features call ?
17:09:56GodEater_Webamiconn - nothing returned -10 - don't worry
17:12:19LinusNGodEater_Web: the PIO mode setting is already there
17:12:21LinusN { 83, 14, 0x03, 0 }, /* force PIO mode */
17:12:47GodEater_Webright - but shouldn't that mean (as I asked above) that word 88 wouldn't report UDMA4 as selected ?
17:13:23LinusNyes
17:13:50GodEater_Webwell it's not working then
17:13:59amiconnIdentify data is read before calling set_features
17:14:08GodEater_Webdoh!
17:14:11GodEater_Webof course it is
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17:14:20LinusNbetter identify again after set_features
17:14:24GodEater_Webso it's not updated
17:14:26JagManDoes the boot loader work for the h10 20 gb
17:14:32GodEater_Webok - I'll try that
17:15:19JagMandoes the dualbootloader work for the h10 20gb
17:16:31GodEater_Webhmm - running identify() after the set features still gives me the same result, word 88 is 0x101F
17:17:06amiconnMaybe identify fails afterwards?
17:17:13GodEater_WebI checked the return code
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17:17:30LinusNGodEater_Web: try to remove all features excepot for the pio
17:17:41amiconnafk
17:17:56LinusNfor what i know, we are not sure set_features() has ever worked
17:18:27GodEater_Webhahaha - how useful!
17:19:17LinusNset_features() could very well return -10:
17:19:19LinusN if (!wait_for_rdy()) {
17:19:19LinusN DEBUGF("set_features() - CMD failed\n");
17:19:19LinusN return -10 - i;
17:19:19DBUGEnqueued KICK LinusN
17:19:19LinusN }
17:20:30GodEater_Webbut then ata_init() would fail wouldn't it ?
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17:20:50LinusNyes it would
17:20:58GodEater_Webbut it doesn't look like it is
17:21:03PaulPositionjagman - It now does, but you need a new bootloader to go with the new daily/cvs builds for H10.
17:21:36PaulPositionjagman - If you go over at mistiriver.net's forums I'll have a tutorial and some test bootloaders ready sooner or later.
17:21:37LinusNGodEater_Web: gotta go, good luck
17:21:43 Part LinusN
17:21:45GodEater_Webthanks :)
17:21:47JagManthank you paul and hows the patch work for the album art buld going
17:22:25PaulPositionjagman - Sorry, knee-deep in tutorial and bootloader building so that album art thing I'll leave to angry for the time being :)
17:22:58JagManok now were do i get one of the new bootloaders and how do i work the damn thing
17:23:07PaulPositionBadger - Think you could send a note to the mailing list when (and if) the website ever links to the bootloaders? That'd be great anyway... :)
17:23:41PaulPositionjagman - misticriver has the stub for the tutorial, bootloaders *I will be* building in next few minutes/hours.
17:24:32JagManalright i c it at 3:00 pm ct becouse i am still on the move
17:24:40 Quit JagMan ("Chatzilla 0.9.75 [Firefox 1.5.0.8/2006102516]")
17:26:22curious1hello 2 all! i'm new to rockbox and i got a two questions about player hardware. maybe you can give me some links?
17:26:46curious1id like to know how much working memory does an apple ipod nano have?
17:27:10curious1also how much memory is available in an iriver 100 (my brother got such a device)
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17:28:37linuxstbcurious1: Most devices have 32MB of RAM. Notable exception is the 60GB and 80GB ipod videos which have 64MB. (note the 80GB doesn't work with Rockbox at the moment).
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17:29:06linuxstbTry this page: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/DeviceChart
17:29:11curious1oh thanks alot linuxtb! wow 32 is plenty
17:29:32linuxstbOther exception is the old Archos players, which have 2MB RAM.
17:30:21curious1okay one more question how does the iriver coldfire cpu compare to an arm9 or wahtever is inside the nano (i get for christmas)
17:30:46PaulPositionANYONE with some mi4 knowledge would tell me... I scramble the rockbox bootloader with ../tools/scramble -mi4v3 for both the H105gb MTP and 20gb MTP models.. There's a 5gb UMS one, does it need a different scramble scheme?
17:31:07linuxstbThe Nano has two 75MHz arm7tdmi cpu cores. The Coldfire runs at 124MHz.
17:31:17curious1i ask cause i modified the mod playing routines .. i removed all interpolation routines for clearer sound
17:31:39curious1and i need to know if i should remove oversampling from the tfmx routines im working on
17:31:44curious1for the ipod nano
17:32:20curious1i dont have the nano yet, but soon... so i jsut cant wait porting more mod replay routines for different formats
17:32:33linuxstbBTW, the new Nano is completely different to the old one...
17:32:50linuxstbRockbox only works on the older (1st generation) Nano.
17:32:53curious1no i get a generation one, a used one from ebay...
17:32:55curious1;)
17:33:53curious1is the coldfire cpu on irver faster? maybe the arm is more efficent since it is risc (excuse my bad english)
17:34:20preglowit is faster
17:34:46curious1ah thanks! nice ;)
17:35:08curious1i can test may stuff on irver and nano but i cant test for other devices
17:35:22curious1since this ui simulator doesnt really work for me
17:35:54PaulPositionANYONE with some mi4 knowledge would tell me... I scramble the rockbox bootloader with ../tools/scramble -mi4v3 for both the H105gb MTP and 20gb MTP models.. There's a 5gb UMS one, does it need a different scramble scheme?
17:36:30GodEater_Webthere appears to be an echo in here
17:37:22curious1i will also try to get future composer modules running and i saw that someone worked on NSF nes mods
17:37:57curious1so YM (atari st) might be possible too, i just need to find some routines for it
17:38:23GodEater_Webheh - that brings back memories - I used to have an ST back in the day
17:39:22curious1cool, i never had one, i got a bitchy amiga ;) i discovered some great ST ym tunes way later on deliplayer
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17:40:08GodEater_Webwell arguably the amiga was the better machine (it was definitely more expensive!)
17:40:19 Quit petur ("*plop*")
17:40:36curious1well, yeah, but as a musican, i so wished i had bought the atari with midi interface back then
17:40:38curious1;)
17:40:46GodEater_Webah yes - it did have that advantage
17:40:49curious1but what did i know back than
17:41:25curious1well, the good news is that if NSF works in real time than YM should be a snap
17:42:47curious1i dont know if my lousy code will ever make it to your cvs, but at least i will release it as a patch
17:43:08curious1and do a few builds for nano and iriver user (since its the only stuff i can test)
17:43:09preglowi wonder what ever happene to pagefault's attempt at spc playback
17:43:39curious1spc is SNES?
17:43:42preglowyea
17:43:53curious1ah, dont know to much about it
17:44:14preglowi know enough, but pagefault said he had a working player
17:44:27preglowand would post a patch Any Moment (tm)
17:44:35preglowthat was over a month ago
17:44:44curious1hmmm the more formats the merrier
17:47:16curious1wow. you guys dont know how happy i am now. i never thought 32mb would be available with the nano ;)
17:48:10curious1since there are no 32 mb mods of any kind i know, there should be no problems at all
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17:51:44preglowi know of 32 meg xms
17:52:35jhMikeShmmm...wonder if that commit will go over ok. :)
17:52:50curious1can i just post my build at the offical forums or do i need to check in diffs? since i will definatley need some testers when i add new formats
17:53:11PaulPositionI'm sorry for spamming, I really do need an answer to this.. :
17:53:16PaulPositionANYONE with some mi4 knowledge would tell me... I scramble the rockbox bootloader with ../tools/scramble -mi4v3 for both the H105gb MTP and 20gb MTP models.. There's a 5gb UMS one, does it need a different scramble scheme?
17:53:52GodEater_Webbecause everyone that knows the answer has just ignored the first two times...
17:54:49curious132 meg xms? oaky i admit i dont know too much about the latest mod foramts
17:54:54curious1im more oldskool ;)
17:55:07crwl"latest" mod formats ;D
17:55:20GodEater_Webcurious1: add them as diffs to flyspray
17:55:52curious1well yeah, theres still a mod scene i think. however i do everything with midi today
17:56:40curious1i dont think we can include v2m though .... which would be the latest "scene" format i know of.... since it relies to heavy on cpu
17:57:09curious1and is basically a virtual vsti with midi
17:57:41curious1but of course, feel free to proove me wrong ;)
17:58:20curious1i admit as of yet i have no idea how to use the second cpu on the ipod nano (apartz form the fact i dont even habe my present now ;)
17:59:01curious1what i do right now is collecting replay routines for old mod formats. change the loader, cut all unecessary libs and build a codec
17:59:30curious1i will then have to test later which players run in realtime without further optimizing
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18:00
18:00:25kclafre
18:00:47Cassandrahi
18:01:56curious1GodEater_Web: well i prefer builds, so more people test the stuff... a diff usually means everyone compiles for personal use and no feedback at all, though im new to the rockbox community
18:02:19GodEater_Webpeople in this channel are pretty good with feedback if you ask nicely :)
18:02:55Cassandra"Your patch sucks the c**k" is feedback, right?
18:03:07curious1hehe, yeah.. you ll jsut have to hold on for xmas because i really dont want to check in something never tested
18:03:09GodEater_Webhahahah yeah
18:03:10n1svery "constructive" ;-)
18:03:36GodEater_Websubmitting patches doesn't count as "checking in"
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18:03:59n1sweee! ICE, sigh
18:03:59curious1so i am safe and dont get ripped into pieces ;)
18:04:36GodEater_Webwell except by Cassandra apparently :)
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18:04:55curious1well thats okay for someone named Cassandra
18:05:00curious1it's her job ;)
18:05:57CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
18:05:57*GodEater_Web gets out of the way rapidly
18:06:19CassandraJust keepin' it real, dudes.
18:06:33Cassandra(Did I really just say that?)
18:06:34GodEater_Webright - off home - chat later peeps
18:06:39 Quit GodEater_Web ("CGI:IRC")
18:07:32webguest81help needed for sansa users. could someone send me the OF.bin to put into .rockbox and tell me how to boot from mlatest build ?
18:07:39 Quit strabes (Remote closed the connection)
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18:10:15lostlogicjhMikeS: you're my hero.
18:10:54jhMikeSlostlogic: thanks. why's that? :)
18:11:54PaulPositionwebguest I doubt it, the OF.bin is made from YOUR OWN original firmware and there's too many versions of it around. I would try to see if just renaming your original firmware file to OF.bin would work and if not, the latter part of my tutorial over at misticriver (it's for H10 but the last part should apply to your sansa) may interest you..
18:12:09PaulPositionWebguest81 - http://www.misticriver.net/showthread.php?t=50074
18:12:23webguest81PaulPosition
18:12:30webguest81PaulPosition:thanks
18:12:42PaulPositionwebguest - It's about decrypting the original firmware... Can't say for sure that the steps are the same, but you probably can work something out from this.
18:13:38webguest81just dont have time to go on my linux/vmware/cygwin to mkcrypt, later !
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18:15:29*jhMikeS is the butt of a (hopefully) friendly joke? commit of a stupid change? ??
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18:16:44lostlogicjhMikeS: you're my hero because you're doing Good Things to playback lately
18:17:09n1slostlogic, are you mr profile?
18:18:02lostlogicn1s: I did write the profiling stuff... but haven't looked at it really since then :-\
18:18:40 Join Ribs [0] (n=ribs@91.84.8.218)
18:18:53n1slostlogic: I managed to build with profiling enabled but when I run vorbis codec nothing gets outputted. :-/
18:19:02jhMikeSlostlogic: ah. I also hope "gutting" playback.c results in something worthwhile. Needs some reorganizations for sure.
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18:22:09lostlogicjhMikeS: yep
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18:22:44*jhMikeS wonders if any odd bugs happened to disappear with using synchronous message sending. the resume deadlock definitely won't though.
18:22:45lostlogicn1s: hmm... I assume you ensured that profile start and profile stop calls were being made at the start and stop of the codec?
18:23:05n1slostlogic: hmm, might need to check that...
18:23:07]RowaN[guys now that theres no .mi4 file in the sansa zip, how do i get my sansa to load the sansa.e200 file?
18:23:36lostlogicn1s: it doesn't do any kind of realtime output, it just collects data from the time you call start until you call stop and then outputs it after the stop call.
18:24:20lostlogicjhMikeS: did you put the proper synchronous vs. async handling of rebuffer and seek in (had to be dropped due to a weird bug before sync queues)
18:27:00jhMikeSI didn't change anything there yet, just got rid of the codec callback queue at first. But now the I can let only the particular thread go that sent the message at any point so there's more control.
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18:32:40]RowaN[hmm gotta go =/
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18:34:27PaulPositionOkay...
18:35:22PaulPositionYou guys may get a few unhappy H10 users today who downloaded newest builds but can't boot anymore. Need a new bootloader to go along the newish commits for that target.
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18:36:28jhMikeSPaulPosition: any in particular? should I take a second look at anything I did?
18:36:30PaulPositionI made a bit of a tutorial, nothing exceptional, but if anyone gets too aggressive or too depressive, you might as well send him over at http://www.misticriver.net/showthread.php?t=50074 for some information.. :p
18:36:52linuxstbPaulPosition: Why at misticriver, and not on the Rockbox wiki?
18:37:01n1sPaulPosition: bagder said he will put them up tonight
18:37:48PaulPositionlinuxstb - Well because I haven't yet learnt the format for wiki and because I write like a dick anyway.
18:38:40PaulPositionn1s - True enough..
18:39:27PaulPositionlinuxstb - besides, except for the unencrypting/beheading and renaming of the Official Firmware file for dualboot, there isn't much that will be usefull in it once a day or so has passed and the bootloaders are available from rockbox.org...
18:40:16PaulPositionjhMikes - Nothing about your commits, it is all Barry and Dan's fault. ;-)
18:40:36jhMikeSPaulPosition: hehe...ok :)
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18:41:38*jhMikeS has his x5 back but the joystick still feels funny (but seems to work) and is wondering if cowon just did something super cheap for a repair :\
18:42:54linuxstbPaulPosition: I'm just thinking that Rockbox needs someone to write some up-to-date install instructions for the H10, including how to make dual-boot work... The current install instructions in our wiki don't seem very comprehensive.
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18:43:09 Nick Jdafdsf is now known as Hdaackdaa (n=klj@202.69.55.134)
18:43:11linuxstbSo I'm just trying to recruit you :)
18:43:20Hdaackdaahi.
18:44:01HdaackdaaCan anyone tell me how to install a wps that requires a patch (basically how to install that patch?) for e.g. the album art patch?
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18:44:59linuxstbHdaackdaa: A "patch" isn't designed to be installed by users (but it can be). A patch is a set of changes to the Rockbox source code, so you apply the patch, and then compile the new version of Rockbox.
18:45:09strabeshow do you apply patches?
18:45:16ArathisPaulPosition: am I right, that if I use current CVS builds I don't have to apply the patch anymore, but still have to build the bootloader (cause there is no solution for automatically build the bootloader and no solution for the problem that you can't use BL and RB from different CVS version?)
18:45:37linuxstbstrabes: With the "patch" command.
18:45:59strabesalrighty
18:46:01Hdaackdaaoh.. um, do the latest builds have patches already instaalled on them?
18:46:03linuxstbThere are various pages in the wiki about compiling Rockbox yourself, and working with patches.
18:46:17GodEaterand an enormous thread on the forums too
18:46:47Hdaackdaadont wanna do that right now. I havent still gone throuugh exploring my rockbox to the fullest yet :). but will do it soon
18:47:21PaulPositionArathis - Exactly, no need to patch anymore as it's been committed to cvs, but you'll need to build a bootloader.. Try with your current patched one first, maybe there hasn't been much changed between last version of patch you applied and the committed changes. :)
18:47:27linuxstbHdaackdaa: Your best option is to try some of the "unofficial builds" (see the forum with the same name) - these are builds made by users who apply patches and compile themselves.
18:47:36Hdaackdaabtw, can anyone send me the pacman.zip (need to try pacman). my ISP has blocked downloading from http and ftp sites for the moment
18:47:40PaulPositionArathis - Or I put a few pre-compiled 'loaders at mistic.
18:47:51Hdaackdaak. thanks linuxstb
18:48:10GodEatergoodness me there are a lot of people wanting to download last night's installment of The Hogfather
18:48:29Hdaackdaalinuxstb: btw are you still working on linux portability to 5.5G ?
18:48:54Hdaackdaaumm, pacman anyone?
18:49:31GodEaterHdaackdaa: 5.5G (30GB) is fully supported now, we're still working on the 80GB
18:49:32PaulPositionlinuxstb - I'll have a look at the current install instructions for H10s and see what I can add or rework, but really I don't have a firm grasp of the english language and I smoke too much weed to have any sort of coherence/order/structure in my writing.. :(
18:50:01GodEaterPaulPosition: weirdly though that read perfectly :)
18:50:08linuxstbPaulPosition: Your misticriver thread looks fine to me...
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18:50:40linuxstbHdaackdaa: What do you mean by "linux portability" ?
18:50:54ArathisPaulPosition: I'll just wait some time. don't see why I should apdate again so soon.
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18:51:09GodEaterI assume he meant rockbox =/
18:51:10 Quit bluebrother ("leaving")
18:51:45Arathispabs: btw, precompiled BLs would either be very temporarily or just time consuming for the one who wants to keep them up2date
18:52:27Hdaackdaano. i hav already installed rockbox. its working great ! :)
18:52:41Hdaackdaai meant linux, side by side with apple os and rockbox.
18:52:54linuxstbNo, I've never worked on ipodlinux...
18:53:12Hdaackdaaoh ok.
18:53:17GodEaterrockbox is a tough enough commitment :)
18:53:33curious1@all: is someone working on "Weighted Playlists" aka the star ***** rating system from the apple ipod?... i think that'd be even more important than my oldschool module player ;)
18:54:04PaulPositionArathis - No problem but still when you update you'll need to update the bootloader.. It's just that rockbox.org will provide a link to it sooner or later. :)
18:54:27HdaackdaaGodEater: does any wps work (with album art) with the latest official build (cvs frm 18th dec 2006)?
18:54:59GodEaternot as far as I'm aware
18:55:07GodEateralbum art isn't in the official code tree
18:55:08PaulPositionHdaackdaa - If you want album_art you need to either start compiling OR find a pre-compiled build from someone (ie, check the 'unofficial builds' section of rockbox.org forums)
18:55:51Hdaackdaaok. btw, this wiki (the ipodlinux one) still has this old tutorial on installig rockbox on a 5.5G (http://ipodlinux.org/5.5g)
18:56:06ArathisPaulPosition: or someone figures out how to solve the problem so you would just need to build the BL one as it was with the non-dualboot one
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18:56:19Arathislike install and forget
18:57:17piquadrathi! I'm in the midst of writing a plugin which needs to read in a text file. Is there some documentation how to read in a file in a sensible way?
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18:57:56GnelikHi all
18:57:57PaulPositionArathis - You shouldn't need to change bootloaders once you have one that is up to date with the committed changes.
18:58:49n1spiquadrat: there are lots of plugins that read files, viewer and text_editor comes to mind, maybe take a look there?
18:59:06PaulPositionArathis - When the patch was a work-in-progress, some things changed between builds, but now it should just be a do-once, maybe a re-do if sometime in the future someone finds out how to make it much better.
19:00
19:00:22piquadratn1s: good idea, thanks!
19:00:47PaulPositionArathis - I don't even think 'the changes have changed' since the one you tried yesterday so most probably today's rockbox build should work with your BL.
19:01:47 Quit Daishi ("Client exiting...")
19:02:21Arathis"make it better" means a real bootloader so after shutton OF down you can boot rockbox without doing a reset first?
19:04:26PaulPositionI don't think this would be possible though.. No, I meant something that may or may not have to do with dualbooting anyway. Barry and Dan's changes weren't meant to warrant a bl+rockbox couple yet it did for the H10 platform. Maybe (but just maybe) some such trouble may come again when, for instance, they find out how to use the second cpu core..? I just don't know.
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19:05:40Arathisspeaing of that: did barry find out why EQ and peakmeter worked without skipping with the patched version?
19:07:06PaulPositionArathis - I don't think so, but my test showed that while it didn't skip for a few minutes, after three or four songs had went by it started to lag and skip as usual.. Maybe just coincidence?
19:07:45Arathisdon't know. nevr tested it really though
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19:09:13curious1@all ;) why do you guys use .bmp for album art... why not JPEG?
19:13:46GodEaterjpeg would mean spending expensive cpu cycles on decoding the image
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19:14:19GodEateralthough as stated above - album art isn't officially included in rockbox yet
19:14:25GodEateronly in the 3rd party patches
19:16:30ArathisPaulPosition: works. BL from yesterday and newest CVS autobuild from the site. OF and RB boot fine
19:16:36Arathisgtg
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19:20:47curious1GodEater: well i have this folder.jpg in all of my mp3 folders ;) i found a free source http://www.voicenet.com/~richgel/
19:21:15curious1ill try to include it to this "unoffical " album art branch
19:21:52curious1though there are some mmx and x68 asm things going on, but i guess they can be replaced
19:22:24curious1also i guess ill use even more cpu cycles on my modplayer routines ;)
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19:26:03markuncurious1: you know that we have a jpeg decoder in rockbox already?
19:26:41elinenbe_workwhat we really need is an ID3 album art patch
19:28:17markunWe should put the album art in the audio buffer. Then it doesn't matter if it comes from a file or from the id3 tag
19:29:37 Quit markun ("CGI:IRC 0.5.7 (2005/06/19)")
19:30:25curious1markun: nope, im new to this.... i dont even have a hardware player yet... im just browsing flyspray
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19:30:59curious1ups
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19:37:22]RowaN[guys how will my sansa know to boot sansa.e200 now that theres no .mi4 flash file in the rockbox zip?
19:37:38]RowaN[throw a snowball at me if im missing something simple
19:37:47curious1hmmm album_art_v5.2_nobmpresize_20061215.patch , it looks specifically for bitmaps, so the user is forced to use .bmp so if theres an jpeg decoder it's not used ;)
19:39:13curious1however if album art is an unsupported brach what is the offical one? supporting these new ID3 tags? (in never dig into this tag ID system.. i just know we have ID v1.0/1.1 and ape)
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19:40:45curious1monolog ;) i think most of my own files are ape anyway as it is the default when you encode with musepack
19:43:09n1s]RowaN[: you need a bootloader that isn't available prebuilt yet, but hopefully will be
19:43:47]RowaN[ah thanks
19:45:43curious1jpeg.c, v 1.66 2006-12-07 17:23:52 JPEG image viewer,,, there it is :)(
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20:00
20:00:50Nico_Panyone willing to help me test cuesheet support ?
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20:01:04Nico_Pi can't test on target
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20:03:51Nico_Pnoone to help me ?
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20:06:03curious1Nico_P: i would, it's just−−- i get my hw player for christmas ;)
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20:06:19Nico_Pcurious1: no risk ;)
20:07:21Nico_Pin fact currently it craches but i think i know why
20:07:22jhMikeSI'm too pissed to cause Cowon fucked up royally "fixing" my x5 >:[
20:08:15Nico_Pcurious1: what player do you have ?
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20:08:31curious1i ll get an ipod nano , 1st gen
20:08:44Nico_Pcurious1: nice :)
20:09:01Nico_Pi hope my patch is finished by christmas, though
20:09:28curious1cool
20:09:44curious1i have finsihed a new .mod replayer and im working on TFMX
20:09:49*jhMikeS warns, if you get a Cowon, make sure you don't use it or else they'll have to fix it and they might send you back a semi brick when all you needed was switch fixed
20:10:11curious1but ill release it when i actually can test it on HW ;)
20:10:40curious1i have my doubts the ipod nano is equal in speed terms with my brothers iriver h100
20:11:02curious1its just so cute and little ;)
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20:13:08curious1jhMikeS: i wanted to get a Cowon first, but then i saw the nano, and it was a luv at first sight thing ;)
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20:13:32plexnesenI have a problem with installing rockbox on my 1st gen Ipod Nano
20:14:04curious1plexnesen, how come?
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20:14:46plexnesenin the last command, if you have the latest version, I get an error msg
20:15:00plexnesenCannot Open loader image file bootloader-nano.bin
20:15:38plexnesenand when I boot up my ipod I get a error msg in 4 different languages
20:16:09plexnesenSaying that I have to use Itunes to rebuild settings
20:16:49curious1hmmm, i admit did not look at the ipod nano/rockbox install instructions yet... but sounds like you still boot apple software
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20:17:02jhMikeScurious1: The Cowon's a very nice player, just hope nothing needs service
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20:18:23plexnesenI dont know what to do
20:18:29elinenbe_workNico_P: did you check out the cue patch in the tracker?
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20:18:42plexnesenI've tried over 4 times now
20:18:43Nico_Pelinenbe_work: which one ?
20:18:48plexnesenand it still doesnt work
20:19:04SUSaiyandoes the bootloader-nano.bin file actually exist?
20:19:16plexnesencant find it in the folder
20:19:36SUSaiyanwell that explains that
20:20:23SUSaiyando you have it anywhere else?
20:20:25lowlighthehe...my first google gadget: http://www.geocities.com/m_arigo/rockbox_recent_cvs.xml
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20:20:32markunjhMikeS: so, what now? You'll send it back again?
20:20:40GodEaterplexnesen: you're using the wrong install guide by the sounds of it
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20:20:47plexnesenoh?
20:20:47GodEateruse this one : http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IpodInstallationBeta
20:21:07plexnesenIve clicked on the nano 1st gen manual
20:21:15*SUSaiyan wonders if thats up to date
20:21:17GodEateryes - that's out of date
20:21:24GodEateruse the link I just gave you
20:21:31SUSaiyanheh, why isnt that updated
20:21:48GodEatercos linuxstb only finished this in the last day or so
20:21:56GodEaterand hasn't got round to regenerating all the manuals yet
20:21:58Nico_Pelinenbe_work: which patch ?
20:21:58SUSaiyantrue
20:22:00GodEatergive the poor fellow a chance
20:22:12GodEaterhe's been working round the clock on it
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20:22:31SUSaiyanwell arent the old files that go with the old manual still there?
20:22:35elinenbe_workNico_P: it looks like it is no longer there...
20:22:49GodEaterthey might be - but the new install method is MUCH less error prone
20:22:58GodEaterand much more user friendlyu
20:23:17SUSaiyantrue, but if he has the old files, he was using the right manual :P
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20:24:24GodEaterbut he *doesn't* have the old files
20:24:25GodEaterhe just said so
20:24:50SUSaiyanhe did?
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20:25:25GodEater[19:19] <plexnesen> cant find it in the folder
20:25:54SUSaiyanwell not the bootloader no, but he does have the old er, whatever the tools were called ^^
20:26:10SUSaiyani cant even remember what the old installation was like >.>
20:26:11GodEaterwhich were buggy
20:26:20GodEateryou had to ipod_fw
20:26:25GodEaterAND ipodpatcher
20:26:29GodEaternow you only need ipodpatcher
20:26:45SUSaiyanyes, i know what its like now, i did it more then 10 times last weekend :P
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20:27:03elinenbe_workNico_P: you did the initial work on the album art patch −− right?
20:27:17Nico_Pelinenbe_work: ys
20:27:23Nico_Pyes
20:27:34SUSaiyanthough i dont remember what ipod_fw did
20:27:46elinenbe_workNico_P: any chance you'll look into artwork embedded in ID3 tags or jpeg artwork?
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20:28:45Nico_Pelinenbe_work: it'd be quite hard work and a big change... we'd need to add jpeg decoding to the core
20:29:31curious1Nico_P: yes , i jsut thought about jpeg support today,,, thers an app some where a jepg decoder plugin with a thousand zoom features
20:29:40Nico_Pelinenbe_work: and i'm not sure everyone would agree with having jpeg decoding in the core ;)
20:29:46curious1Nico_P: but we should strip that down and add it to album art
20:30:01plexnesenI have a problem in step F
20:30:14PaulPositionlinuxstb - Gonna add myself to the long list of members for wiki.. Is the small blurb about installation in http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IriverH10Port all there is right now? And do you have idea of a solid, no-nonsense wikipage for another target which would provide good styling for how install instructions *should* be written?
20:30:18plexnesenReplace [device] with the number (Windows users) or device name (Mac OS X/Unix users) you've been using to access your ipod, and replace the XXXXX to match the name of the bootloader file you downloaded in step a).
20:30:34plexnesenthe name of the bootloader file is .rockbox?
20:31:06Nico_Pelinenbe_work: maybe i'll have a look at it when i'm finished with cuesheets (and after the holidays)... but it's not in my priorities because imho jpeg->bmp should be done on the computer
20:31:15GodEaterplexnesen: no
20:31:24GodEateryou should have downloaded the bootloader file from the same page
20:31:28Nico_Pas of embedded tags, it's another matter and it's probably even harder
20:31:38curious1Nico_P: here's the routine (however lots of unecessary stuff) ->jpeg.c, v 1.66 2006-12-07 17:23:52 JPEG image viewer. ill try to include it to album art when im done with my .mod stuff
20:31:39Nico_Pi'm a bit of a newbie coder ;)
20:31:51plexnesenbootload-ipodnano.ipod?
20:31:56GodEateryes
20:31:57plexnesenbootloaer*
20:31:59plexnesendamn
20:32:02plexnesenbootloader
20:32:04plexnesenok
20:32:05GodEaterplexnesen: that's the right one
20:32:06SUSaiyanyes
20:33:05Nico_Pcurious1: where did yous see that quote ? in the file ?
20:34:04curious1Nico_P: which quote? i made a search on my *blush* cygwin folder... to see where in the source the jpeg decoder is included... and it was that app
20:34:24GodEateranyone know a decent Excel macro to convert a hex number into a binary one ?
20:34:48curious1Nico_P: apps\plugins\jpeg.c
20:34:53Nico_Pcurious1: "JPEG image viewer. ill try to include it to album art when im done with my .mod stuff"
20:34:57plexnesenI get it to work.. but then its just saying OK to disconnect
20:35:05plexnesenand it doesnt work to start it
20:35:16curious1Nico_P: i said that ;) that wasnt a quote ;)
20:35:35Nico_Pcurious1: aahh, sorry
20:36:21curious1Nico_P: i can build you a preview for your H300 and you tell me how much you hate it ;=
20:36:26curious1*giggle*
20:36:33Nico_Pi know about the jpeg plugin, but it's a big one and i wouldn't really now where to start looking at it
20:36:56Nico_Pcurious1: a preview of jpeg in the core ?
20:37:00curious1yes, i think its kinda overpowered with all that features
20:37:07curious1nope , for .mod replay
20:37:22Nico_Pi don't have any .mod file...
20:37:30curious1oh i see!
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20:38:32GodEaterplexnesen: what do you mean "it doesn't work to start it" ?
20:39:30curious1Nico_P: .cue list support is great, will you also work on weighted playlists? like the ipod ***** system?
20:39:36plexnesengot it to work now
20:39:42curious1congrats
20:40:02plexnesenno...
20:40:09plexnesenits when i start it again
20:40:16Nico_Pcurious1: i don't know about weighted playlists... what are they ?
20:40:54curious1Nico_P: when you play your favorite songs,,,, they get a higher rating.... so you can include a playmode like "play all my favorite songs"
20:41:24 Quit Phoenix7477 ("Konversation terminated!")
20:41:43Nico_Pcurious1: couldn't the same thing be achieved with ratings and the database ?
20:42:50curious1Nico_P: hmm maybe it could, i found no one working on this yet
20:44:19curious1Nico_P: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/1042 someone requested it here
20:44:26Slasheridatabase already supports automatic rating
20:44:30Slasheri(but not manual rating yet)
20:45:01Nico_PSlasheri: automatic rating ? how does that work ?
20:45:37jhMikeSmarkun: we'll, see. just got done writing them back. will be very nice and patient at first but I'm fuming big time.
20:46:25SlasheriNico_P: you should check the manual and DataBase wiki page
20:46:34Nico_P:)
20:46:42Slasherithen you can add that "Favorite songs" entry to the menu
20:46:47Slasheriin fact it already has "Best tracks"
20:47:03plexnesenGodEater: when I reboot it the frame:"OK to disconnect" is there
20:47:13plexnesenand it wouldnt boot up
20:47:29Slasheriplexnesen: you need to hold down menu and select
20:47:31Slasherito reset it
20:47:44plexnesenI did that
20:47:52plexnesenwhen you turn it off or on?
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20:48:34Slasheriyou don't need to do that. just resetting it is enough
20:49:08jhMikeSit might as well be a brick since it can't connect. I guess they only want me listening to "IAUDIO - Friends & Lovers.mp3" over and over.
20:49:28n1s:)
20:50:42GodEaterplexnesen: unplug it
20:52:42jhMikeSShould reflash the fw via my camera on USBOTG and see if the USB behavior is different between the ROM and another OF. :\
20:57:26plexnesencan I use .OGG files?
20:57:32plexnesenogg vorbis
20:58:05GodEateronly once you get it working
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21:00
21:00:16GodEaterwell that's bloody useless - Excel's HEX2BIN() function won't work on anything larger than a 10 bit value
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21:11:46GodEaterLlorean around ?
21:12:03GodEaterbugger - no he isn't
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21:22:58PaulPositionLinuxstb - You back man?
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21:36:15Helio_NamiHey guys... I got a question...
21:36:38Helio_NamiI got an old schol 2nd gen ipod 20gb and was wondering if Rockbox would work on it.
21:36:48n1sno
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21:36:51Helio_Nami*school
21:37:10PaulPositionHmm.. Anyone with edit rights for the wiki willing to give me some access.. ? I might be adding some things regarding installation/dualboot on the iRiver H10 target but for now I would just like to be able to test/draft modifications from my 'personnal' wiki page..
21:37:26Helio_Namiwould I have to ask for a feature request for that then?
21:37:27n1ssure, name please
21:37:34PaulPositionn1s AlexandreFournelle
21:37:41PaulPositionAnd thanks :)
21:38:49dan_aHelio_Nami: None of the devs have 1st or 2nd gen iPods. I don't think there's a huge amount of difference between the 1st, 2nd and 3rd gen iPods, so it might be worth trying it and seeing what doesn't work
21:39:07n1sPaulPosition: done
21:39:12Helio_Namioka
21:39:14Helio_Namithanks
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21:39:57PaulPositionn1s - Thanks.. Recopying the H10-port page and editing it from there shouldn't cause any problem if I remove the links so that it doesn't show in parents/childs searches, right?
21:40:25n1s?
21:40:27PaulPositionThen if I (and Barry) are happy with result I could copy-paste 'em in the right place afterward..
21:40:55PaulPositionn1s - I'm UNwilling to put any change in before someone more in the know have a look at it. nevermind. :)
21:41:16n1snow that i can do ;-)
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21:43:10PaulPositionn1s - And anyway, I'm waiting for badger to work something out for downloadable bootloaders.. The old ones don't work with the current builds and I'm waiting for a few links from him.
21:43:19 Quit Rob222241 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:43:59PaulPositionn1s - When this is done, then I could think about adding stuff to the wikipage for real.. I just needed a place to work on a dummy and my profile should do. :)
21:44:42n1sPaulPosition: or you can do like linuxstb did and make a H10InstallationBeta page
21:45:19PaulPositionn1s - Oh, he did?
21:45:29n1syes, but for ipods
21:46:01PaulPositionn1s - That would make sense.. I'll have a look around.
21:47:14n1soh and btw did the ata poweroff patch ever work out for you?
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21:48:10PaulPositionn1s - I so forgot about that one.. Been trying to help folks over at misticriver since I woke up this morning..
21:48:25PaulPositionn1s - I'll try to have a look later. Sorry. :(
21:49:03n1snp, the settings block changed again today so you'll have to fiddle a bit with it perhaps
21:49:16PaulPositionn1s - I'm getting used to it. :p
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22:07:10PaulPositionn1s - D'you think it'd be bad to my health to work from the manual's installation procedure for H10 (its waaaay outdated) for the wiki? Then when it gets edited and re-edited and on and on (by anyone who cares, really), then it might be put back as latex or whatever and into cvs..?
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22:43:06n1sPaulPosition: it isn't really much trouble to convert the text to TeX so I'd say work in whatever for you're most comfortable.
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22:43:57DigammaIs there a CVS yet of a working sound Sansa e200
22:44:20n1sno
22:44:41Digammaok;
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22:50:31PaulPositionn1s - Yeah, but I'll rework it from what's in the manual anyway, it is a good basis. :) (of course, to wiki format..)
22:50:48martian67hmm
22:50:53martian67i shut down my ipod
22:51:01martian67now it wont turn back on
22:51:03martian67any tips?
22:51:43n1sPaulPosition: ok, and I would appreciate to get it in to the manual whenever you feel finished :-)
22:52:01n1smartian67: charge it
22:52:14martian67ok it turned on
22:52:16martian67weird o.O
22:52:53PaulPositionn1s - tomorrow I'll have it somewhat ready (I think) and if it's not too bad I'll see how I could convert it to TeX. :)
22:54:09*n1s thinks it's good when people writing in the manual actually have or have used the target they are wrighting for.
22:54:18n1s:-)
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23:29:45peturI thought ipod recording gain was not yet implemented, right?
23:31:05 Quit midgey ()
23:31:53*petur gets scared by the echo bouncing off the walls in this crowded empty place
23:32:11FebsAre you looking at the forum post about low recording levels on the nano?
23:32:27peturand found the commit remark
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23:32:36peturit's not implemented yet
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23:33:19Doomedthe new H10 bootloader is on the iriver bootloader list?
23:34:19PaulPositionDoomed - Unless badger worked it out and didn't tell anyone, I don't think so. But I built some for while we wait, which you can find over in the forums at misticriver.net ..
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23:35:00PaulPositionDoomed - As it is, those bootloaders are probably dated a few months ago.. (you mean those from the wiki H10-Port page, right?)
23:35:01Doomedkk, cause barry says its now dual boot on the front bag
23:35:08Doomedyeah from the wiki
23:35:29PaulPositionDoomed - Yes, and unfortunately, the new Rockbox build NEEDS the new bootloader (and vice-versa)..
23:35:50Febspetur: I'm looking forward to getting a line-in dock and testing out recording on the ipod.
23:35:57Doomedim starting to think that after the H10 wont boot
23:36:02PaulPositionDoomed - But we're looking at having those autobuilt and linked to. I'm re-doing the install guide at the moment while I wait.
23:36:12PaulPositionDoomed - No need to think, now you KNOW. ;)
23:36:14Doomedok, im looking for the thread now
23:36:34peturFebs: rockbox is a fun recording tool ;)
23:36:36Doomedk im reading now :D
23:36:47BagderPaulPosition: download.rockbox.org is now hosting the updated H10 bootloaders
23:36:55habanaIs there a patch on pastebin that would allow me to test cvs version for sansa ?
23:37:28Bagderhabana: why do you need a patch?
23:38:26Doomedhmm that "new' bootloader from download.rockbox doesnt seem to work for me
23:38:35habanabecause i suppose that a simple e200 file wont upgrade the firmware ?
23:38:39Doomedunless it was just updated
23:39:01Bagderhabana: ?
23:39:27BagderDoomed: it was
23:39:29habanaerr, i'd like to reinstall a dual boot on my sansa
23:39:42peturI convinced a former colleague to install rb on his h10, and he complained that brushing the touch strip can make volume go dangerously loud too easy. He suggests a setting for volume limit. Yes he knows about the hold functionality.
23:40:20Doomedhmmm btw has anybody fgured out how to get control from the whole touch strip?
23:40:20PaulPositionBadger - Ah cool, I'd go and have a look but right now I'm trying to finish writing a stub for a wikipage on installation to H10.. I'll update my links later tonight when I have tested.
23:40:52Bagderhabana: its in CVS, no need for any patch afaik
23:40:53Febspetur: the replaygain preamp or the eq pre-cut control can be used as a makeshift volume limiter.
23:41:13Doomedim getting 2 differnet sizes from PaulPosition and the rockbox site bootloaders
23:41:40petura volume cap setting would be easy to add... just don't know if it would be appreciated...
23:42:11habanaBagder:thank you , lost my brain between two subways
23:42:42peturFebs: replaygain & co won't limit voice volume
23:42:57peturalthough he's not using voice
23:43:01petur(atm)
23:43:20Doomedok well PaulPosition your bootloader works, as of now the download.rockbox.org does NOT work with my H10, maybe its not fully updated yet, dont know
23:43:23FebsTrue.
23:43:47Bagderit is "fully updated"
23:44:09Doomedwell the site says 69 k, but when its downloaded i get 56k
23:44:23Bagderwhich one?
23:44:31DoomedH10_20GC.mi4
23:44:43Bagder70656 bytes
23:45:04Bagdermd5 4c5c054bf7035269a003dabe2057b913
23:45:33Doomed56.0 KB (57,344 bytes)
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23:46:08peturfailed download stuck in a proxy cache?
23:46:12Bagderthen your download messed up
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23:47:07Lars_GGreets all.
23:47:10PaulPositionIndeed, if I download it it's allright at 69kb
23:47:12Doomedhmmm firefox cache i guess
23:47:23Lars_GAh no jdgordon, meh :(
23:47:23Doomedi tried dling with IE and i got the right size
23:47:52peturie rules, firefox sucks :p
23:47:55*petur ducks
23:47:58Bagderhaha
23:48:05Doomedlol pft
23:48:28Lars_GI wonder if he comes at all
23:48:36Lars_G!seen jdgordon
23:48:57Bagderjdgordon (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon) signed off 9 hours and 34 minutes ago ("Konversation terminated!")
23:49:15Lars_GAh well.
23:49:21 Quit habana ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
23:49:53Doomedwhat name does the bootloader look for for the OF
23:50:09peturcrap.bin
23:50:32Lars_GDoomed: The OF is bundled WITH the bootloader in the bootloader partition, afaik
23:50:36PaulPositionDoomed - OF.bin and you need to decrypt it as stated in the tutorial at misticriver (and soon on wiki)
23:50:43Doomedah kk
23:51:01BagderLars_G: hehe, not on the H10 or sansa
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23:55:04Lars_GBagder: Gah sorry I always forget how many devs this supports
23:55:17Doomedbrb
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