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#rockbox log for 2006-12-27

00:00:15 Quit EspeonEefi (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
00:00:33yossaOne thing he lacks, though is the technical know how - what parts to use etc etc
00:01:43 Quit Criamos ("( :: NoNameScript 4.03 :: )")
00:01:55yossaI don't know about open hardware as I haven't discussed it with him, but certainly the firmware will be open source.
00:02:06dan_ayossa: The forum thread about designing hardware around Rockbox may help
00:03:38yossaWe've read it, and it helped somehow, but I'd very much like to discuss some things off the record with people who are knowledgeable in the possibilities and limitations of designing players
00:04:10yossawe've got some ideas, but for now they shouldn't get out into the public
00:04:20Juice^is there a daily build for the sansa?
00:04:42LloreanJuice^: I'm sure you've noticed it's not on the daily build page?
00:05:00Juice^yes.. but there could be an unofficial link? :p
00:05:16LloreanThere's a CVS build, use that.
00:05:21Juice^If there was any patches made etc
00:05:21Soapyossa: He wants to use a PortaPlayer chip, and he demands full documentation.
00:05:27LloreanThe CVS build is NEWER than daily builds.
00:05:36Juice^ok thanks
00:08:15yossaSoap: I believe pp is overkill for the first design we have in mind, but this is all to be decided based on input from people who know better than us.
00:08:36 Join habana [0] (i=58a10615@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
00:08:56dan_ayossa: I think the documentation was the more useful think ;)
00:09:28LloreanI forgot to delete battery_bench.txt
00:09:29Soapyossa: Are you thinking about dedicated MP3 hardware?
00:10:07*Llorean will not have bench results until tomorrow.
00:10:18yossayea I know. Believe me, if we were to get documentation some things would probably happen to benefit of rockbox
00:10:36 Part Llorean
00:10:42yossasoap: I'm thinking I don't know what I'm thinking
00:10:56yossaas great as it sounds
00:11:27 Join spiorf [0] (n=spiorf@
00:11:56 Quit merbanan (Remote closed the connection)
00:13:39goffaso... i see the commit that has play next... is this just insert renamed?
00:15:14Scottstonehey guys
00:15:15Scottstonein doom
00:15:20Scottstonehow do you go back?
00:15:23Scottstonein like a menu
00:15:33Scottstonei went to settings, how do i get back to the main menu lol
00:15:46Scottstoneas in "New game" "Options" etc
00:16:00Soapgoffa: no, insert next inserts a track into the middle of the playlist.
00:16:13scorcheScottstone: manual...
00:16:15 Quit jeffb ("Leaving")
00:16:22Soapgoffa: play next replaces the playlist with your new selection, /after/ the current song finishes.
00:18:36Soaptalk to LL if you don't like the wording.
00:18:50goffai don't care.. that makes sense now
00:20:45Scottstonemy ipod stoped responding,..
00:21:20ScottstoneGUYS HELP..
00:21:33Scottstoneooo n/m
00:22:07*scorche sighs
00:22:17Scottstoneit scared me there
00:22:24Scottstonei had the hold butoon on
00:22:30SoapYou don't want a line-in for your Nano, scorche?
00:22:43SoapOr is recording confirmed non-existant?
00:23:26scorchei dont have a use for one
00:23:39Scottstonehow do i play music with rockbox?
00:23:42scorchealthough i guess i could always test things
00:24:04scorcheScottstone: this is the last time i or anyone else will tell you...READ THE MANUAL
00:24:13 Join calamari [0] (
00:24:27scorcheit isnt funny
00:26:15Scottstoneit doesnt say anything about music in it.
00:27:19cd_romScottstone: i think you are like 14 years old or something
00:27:29 Quit rretzbach ("WeeChat 0.2.2-cvs")
00:27:29scorchei said read it...not look through it briefly
00:28:07Scottstoneno need to be anti social guys, jeez.
00:28:18 Quit habana ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
00:28:46scorcheno need to be so opposed to reading and actually attempting to figure things out for yourself
00:28:52Soapwhat is more antisocial than coming to an established project, not performing due diligence, and placing demands upon the members to support your too-busy-to-try butt?
00:29:15Scottstoneim not placing demands
00:29:17Scottstoneim asking
00:29:30scorcheand we told you where you can find the answers for yourself
00:29:30cd_romin your case, there is a difference!
00:29:34Soaprepeatedly, and getting snappy when the answers aren't what you want to hear.
00:30:00Scottstoneim not getting snappy,bud
00:30:06Scottstoneim asking you guys
00:30:15Scottstoneand your all pissed off and stuff because you have to help someone
00:30:28dan_aScottstone: And you've been given answers.
00:30:28Scottstoneyeah i have
00:30:28Scottstoneand ive used them
00:30:48Scottstonebut obviously the firmware isnt very user friendly if i cant find out how to play my damn music
00:31:11scorchethen dont use it...we dont care whether you do or dont honestly...
00:31:20Scottstonebut i want to use it..
00:31:20*cd_rom is wordless
00:31:44scorchethen you should *want* to be able to use the device fully
00:31:46dan_aScottstone: It's *ALL* in the manual. If the manual isn't clear, we will clarify.
00:31:50scorcheand reading the manual is how you do that
00:31:50 Quit JoeBorn ("Leaving")
00:32:11 Join JoeBorn [0] (
00:32:22scorchealso read this
00:32:36Soapthen read the manual. If you have any questions, ask, but please show that you have attempted by citing the parts of the existing documentation you have problems with. Your non-specific questions not only show a lack of reading, they show a lack of effort. Then you complain that effort isn't given unto you.
00:33:04Scottstonei am looking through it, but still cnat find anything about how to get to my music
00:33:09Scottstonecould you possibly walk me through it?
00:33:31scorchewould you like us to hold your hand too?
00:33:45Scottstonelol now tahts being snappy XD
00:34:11scorchewell, you have just about used up all of my and im sure other's patience
00:34:40ScottstoneSoap, no
00:35:02Scottstonei do look through things, it says some shit about the browser, but ntohing about how to get to it
00:35:32*dan_a warns Scottstone about language
00:35:59Soapok Scottstone, do you grasp the concept that Rockbox browses your player just like how windows explorer browses your hard drives?
00:36:15Soapthat the default view is a file-tree view?
00:36:41Soapok, look at your ipod root directory in windows explorer. What folders and files do you see?
00:37:04ScottstoneDo i need my ipod connected to my comp right bnow?
00:37:41Soapok, so you don't know what files and folders are in the root of your ipod.
00:37:55Scottstoneno, i just got my ipod yesterday..
00:38:10SoapSo that is problem #1 for why you don't recognize the file browser when you see it.
00:38:43SoapProblem #2 is that rockbox is NOT an ipod only software.
00:38:56Scottstoneyeah i know
00:39:01Scottstoneim using an ipod in this case though.
00:39:01Soaprockbox on the iRivers is the same as rockbox in the iPods.
00:39:15Scottstonewhen i first start up rockbox it has
00:39:23Soapright, but where in the file tree your music is stashed is not rockbox's issue.
00:39:47SoapIf you are unfamiliar with where on your hard drive your music is - how can the manual help you with that?
00:39:51Scottstoneits already on my ipod..
00:39:57Scottstonehow do i access it using rockbox
00:40:02Soapwhere is it?
00:40:15Scottstonei did it through itunes
00:40:32Soapok, I ASSumed that, but that is the first time you have mentioned loading music through iTunes.
00:40:38Scottstonedo i need to recopy all my music through My OCmputer?
00:40:53Scottstonei have a music folder
00:41:11Scottstonedo i have to put it in my e drive?
00:41:50Soapyour iTunes added music is all under cute little subdirectories of \iPod_Control\Music
00:42:43Scottstonewheres that sotred though, on my comp or my ipod?
00:43:00Scottstonehold on
00:43:00 Quit Thundercloud (Remote closed the connection)
00:43:04 Join Thundercloud [0] (
00:43:06Scottstoneill tell you whats on my ipod in e drive
00:43:21Scottstone1 sec
00:43:58Scottstonek wtf
00:44:03Scottstoneas soon as i cobnnect it
00:44:06Scottstonegod dammit
00:44:08Scottstone1 second
00:44:11Scottstonei mean
00:44:22Scottstone1 second lol
00:44:22 Join MadDog011 [0] (
00:44:27 Quit MadDog011 (Remote closed the connection)
00:45:08ScottstoneCalendars, Contacts Photos notes games and the rockbox stuff
00:45:39Soapyou need to change your view settings in Windows to show hidden files and folders.
00:46:05Scottstonebut m ydamn thing keeps closing
00:46:11Scottstonemy e drive window
00:47:03Scottstonehow do u show hidden files?
00:47:10Scottstonei cnat remember lol
00:47:34 Quit jaebird ("Leaving")
00:47:44Scottstonei figuered it out
00:47:49Scottstoneso i have iPod_Control open
00:48:46Scottstonedo i copy all those files under music?
00:48:52 Join Febs [0] (n=chatzill@rockbox/administrator/Febs)
00:49:22scorchelast warning for the language
00:49:49Soapfull english words.
00:49:55Soapand no cussing.
00:50:00ScottstoneOk, fine,
00:50:14ScottstoneDo I copy the Music folder to my Rockbox folder?
00:50:22dan_aScottstone: You are rushing ahead and being impatient. Those files are *already* on your iPod, so you can play them from where they are in Rockbox
00:50:41ScottstoneWell, then how do I access them,lol
00:50:55ScottstoneRockbox thinks I have no music.
00:51:03dan_aThey are in the hidden folder called iPod_Control
00:51:09ScottstoneBut the Apples firmware knows I do.
00:51:16ScottstoneYeah I unhid it.
00:51:43dan_aNo, you didn't. You told Windows to show hidden folders.
00:51:51ScottstoneWell, whatever, that's what I meant.
00:51:58dan_aRockbox doesn't know to show hidden folders yet.
00:52:08cd_romScottstone: you have to do an Initilise update for the database for the song to show up
00:52:13SoapScottstone: ipod_control\music\<someotherfolder>\*.mp3
00:52:23ScottstoneDo I have to do anotehr CMD thing?
00:52:59ScottstoneSorry, Soap, but I do not understand what you wrote there lol
00:53:41SoapI was trying to get your to grasp how the file browser is just like windows explorer, and you can navigate to songs all you want, and placethem wherever you want.
00:53:59Soapbut if you are set on using iTunes to add music, you need to read the chapter in the manual on "Database"
00:55:13 Quit spiorf (Remote closed the connection)
00:58:53ScottstoneAlright, so now I did the INITIALIZE NOW, and it said Updating In Background.
01:00:19Soapwait until the disk stops spinning (you can hear it), and reboot cleanly.
01:01:11ScottstoneBut I can't hear it at all lol
01:01:26ScottstoneWell it sounds like a mini fan moving
01:01:36ScottstoneWhen its done that, it will be done?
01:02:46 Join nickv111 [0] (
01:03:19nickv111Hey. I got a 3G iPod 10GB from my mom, and when I plug it in through USB and mount /dev/sda3 (the partition), it's mounted as hfsplus, read-only
01:03:31nickv111I don't understand why it's mounted read-only, because mount shows that it's "rw", but I can't write to it
01:05:11Scottstonealright, thanks soap, it works now
01:06:56Soapnickv111: HFS+ ipods are not supported by Rockbox.
01:07:11Soapnickv111: but there are instructions for converting it to FAT
01:07:16 Join LTjake [0] (
01:09:05Scottstonedoes anyone know if skulltag works on ipods? lol
01:09:13 Quit nickv111 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:09:54 Join jaebird [0] (
01:10:06Soapoh, a doom mod.
01:10:08Soaptry it.
01:10:28Scottstonenono skulltag
01:10:29Scottstoneis like
01:10:36Soapoh, a doom replacement.
01:10:37Scottstonea program taht u use to play doom online
01:10:39Soapnot a wad
01:11:09Scottstoneits like a program, taht runs off of the wad
01:11:46cd_romnite guys
01:11:47 Quit cd_rom (" HydraIRC -> <- IRC with a difference")
01:12:30SoapScottstone: it is a doom replacement. Not a .wad (resource file) replacement. It would need to be ported to rockbox.
01:14:15Scottstonethat would be sweet if they did
01:14:24 Quit Genre9mp3 ("I don't suffer from Rockbox psychosis. I enjoy every minute of it.")
01:14:31 Join nickv111 [0] (
01:14:36SoapThere is no "they"
01:14:37nickv111Sorry, computer froze
01:14:43LTjakeare there any special instructions for upgrading the bootloader?
01:14:45Soaprockbox is you.
01:14:57nickv111Anyway, for some reason, my iPod's HFS+ filesystem can't be written to by my computer
01:15:11Soapnickv111: yea, but forget all that.
01:15:11dan_aLTjake: Yes. They are different for every player.
01:15:33Soapnickv111: get your iPod to FAT through the wiki instructions, and go from there.
01:15:41nickv111Soap: Oh, okay.
01:15:45nickv111Soap: Thanks
01:16:09LTjakedan_a: would that be in the daily build of the manual? (which appears to be truncated for some reason)
01:16:16ScottstoneSoap : by they i meant skulltag
01:17:14nickv111Hmm. There's no MBR file on that page for a 3G iPod
01:17:28nickv111It's a 10GB iPod 3G
01:17:57dan_aLTjake: It will probably be in the install instructions. Which kind of player do you have?
01:18:28LTjakedan_a: ipod mini 1G.
01:18:34LTjake(1st gen that is)
01:20:55FebsLTjake: I just made some corrections to the installation instructions in the manual so until they get incorporated into the next daily build manual, follow the instructions here instead:
01:20:55lostlogicdan_a: any word on committing kernel on cop? still issues WRT ipod_set_cpu_frequency?
01:21:26LTjakeFebs: thank ya kindly.
01:21:40Scottstoneone more question
01:21:45ScottstoneDoes tibia work on rockbox?
01:21:52 Quit JdGordon (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:22:58nickv111Guys, where's the MBR file for the iPod 3G 10GB? It may not exist, so how do I make it then?
01:23:50dan_alostlogic: It's not been committed yet. I can't test at the moment (I've only got my Sansa with me) and I got sidetracked before I made any progress with it today...
01:24:34Soapnickv111: do you have access to a windows machine?
01:24:42nickv111Soap: No.
01:24:45nickv111Soap: I only run Linux
01:24:55Soapand your friends/family?
01:25:05nickv111Soap: I don't have any family who runs Windows
01:25:08nickv111Soap: Only Mac.
01:25:15nickv111Soap: No friends who do, either
01:25:19Soapthen put out a plea to the community here and in the forums for a 3G 10GB MBR.
01:25:42Soapand maybe #ipodlinux
01:25:44*nickv111 sighs.
01:25:59nickv111If I came across a computer with Windows, how would I get the MBR?
01:26:00 Join muesli- [0] (n=muesli_t@
01:26:03Soapi bet there is another way, but HFS+ conversion is not my strength.
01:26:19 Join Llorean [0] (
01:26:26nickv111Why could I not just go mkdosfs -f 32 /dev/sda3?
01:26:36SoapIf you came across a computer with windows (which I can't believe is THAT hard) you would use itunes to "restore" your ipod and in the process format it FAT
01:27:00 Quit muesli__ (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
01:27:05SoapI don't know why mkdosfs is not enough.
01:27:13 Quit lee-qid ("aufwiederbyebientotsayonara")
01:27:40LloreanBecause the MBR needs to be changed as well so that it has a proper partition table.
01:28:13dan_aWould using WINE work?
01:28:17LloreanWe are talking about HFS+ -> Fat32 iPod layouts, right?
01:28:27*Llorean jumped in without checking the log
01:28:36nickv111Well, I may be able to find a windows machine
01:28:37LloreanI assume the conversion page has been pointed out?
01:28:38Soapcould he hex edit another one of the partition tables?
01:28:47LloreanAh, no MBR for his device?
01:29:13Soapwe are lacking 3G ones.
01:30:12LloreanI'd say the absolute best thing is to see if iTunes under Wine will restore the iPod
01:31:30Soapis there a difference amongst all those .bin files than the starting and ending addresses?
01:32:41LTjakeFebs: seems to have worked. thanks again.
01:32:55FebsNo problem!
01:34:25LloreanSoap: I really don't know. But 3Gs aren't supported by iPodPatcher yet because they have a difference of some sort relating to the partitions, so I'd say even if you could just edit one of those to use, we wouldn't have the necessary information to know all the changes that would need to be made
01:34:38 Join chuckwag0n [0] (
01:35:17chuckwag0ni need help
01:35:39chuckwag0ncan anyone help me?
01:35:39LloreanSoap: But, the iPod Mini 1g and 2g 4gb mbrs look the same, at least
01:35:48Lloreanchuckwag0n: You could start by asking a question.
01:37:01nickv111Okay, once i get the iPod restored, how do I extract the MBR so nobody else has to deal with this problem?
01:37:12chuckwag0nI installed rockbox, the rockbox bootloader comes on but nothing else happens... it just sits there
01:37:34chuckwag0nI rebooted and now I am in disk mode
01:37:37chuckwag0nnot sure what I should do next
01:37:45 Join Jason [0] (i=9a1481ba@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
01:38:04Soapnickv111: don't quote me, but...don't you just reverse the dd command in the wiki.
01:38:16nickv111I guess that would make sense
01:38:43nickv111Actually, no
01:38:52nickv111dd if=mbr-xxxx.bin of=/dev/diskN
01:39:00nickv111Rearranging that would write the entire disk to a file
01:39:12nickv111Which would be 10GB large. . .
01:39:28 Quit Thundercloud (Remote closed the connection)
01:39:47 Quit Jason (Client Quit)
01:40:07dan_aIf it's just the MBR, isn't that a fixed size?
01:40:34nickv111Well, if you did "dd if=/dev/sda of=mbr-xxxx.bin", it would actually write the entire disk
01:40:36Lloreannickv111: dd if=/dev/sda of=mbr-bah bs=512 count=1 ?
01:40:36 Join BobJonkman [0] (
01:40:41nickv111Ah, bs=512
01:40:48nickv111bs=512 count=1 is important
01:40:49nickv111Thank you.
01:41:23 Join JAson [0] (i=9a1481ba@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
01:42:24 Quit JAson (Client Quit)
01:42:44nickv111Grr. Now ipodpatcher is saying no iPods are attached
01:43:07 Quit hcs ()
01:43:09nickv111nick@p1mp:~/local/src/rockbox$ ./ipodpatcher /dev/sda -r bootpartition.bin
01:43:16nickv111[ERR] Unknown version number in firmware (00000000)
01:43:29chuckwag0nLlorean: I installed rockbox, the rockbox bootloader comes on but nothing else happens... it just sits there with no error message
01:43:34Lloreannickv111: You have to use the old iPodPatcher instructions, the ones that also use ipod_fw (see the manual, or the IpodInstallation wiki page) as the new ipodpatcher doesn't support 3Gs yet
01:43:45nickv111Oh, thanks
01:43:49Lloreanchuckwag0n: So, you get Result: 0, and then nothing?
01:43:53LloreanThe screen never changes?
01:44:16chuckwag0nLlorean: the last message is the discription of my HDD
01:44:22LloreanWhat does it say?
01:44:35 Part calamari ("Leaving")
01:45:02chuckwag0nLlorean: TOSHIBA MK8010GAH
01:46:16LloreanYou're trying to install on an 80gb
01:46:29chuckwag0nI can't?
01:46:32LloreanWhich NOTHING on our site says we support.
01:46:42chuckwag0nI just assume
01:46:58LloreanIn fact, on the very front page, it says clearly that we don't support it.
01:47:00LloreanIn italics.
01:47:10LloreanYou're just going to have to reboot into disk mode and uninstall
01:47:24Soapfourth line of front page says "(Nano 2nd gen and 80GB Video 5.5th gen are not supported)"
01:47:46Soapoh, speedy McFingers beat me again.
01:48:22***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:48:28chuckwag0nwhen do you plan on supporting it?
01:48:49dan_achuckwag0n: When it works
01:49:02Lloreanchuckwag0n: It's not an issue of planning. It's an issue of "When we discover what's keeping it from working"
01:49:47Lloreandan_a: One day I just want to respond "We've decided not to support them until November 2007 just so we can laugh at the people foolish enough to buy them." or something similar.
01:50:00dan_alostlogic: We need to run ipod_set_cpu_frequency from both cores.
01:50:39 Join hcs [0] (n=hcs@rockbox/contributor/hcs)
01:50:46dan_aLlorean: You've got to tell people that anyone who has made a donation of 1000USD to the project can use it earlier, though
01:51:12lostlogicdan_a: weird, I thought the COP was just slaved to the CPU at 1/2 or 1/4 clock?
01:51:13lostlogic(or 1/1)
01:52:02dan_alostlogic: I suspect that we don't need to run it from both cores, but something about running it from the second core works better than running it from the main core (a timing issue)
01:52:18chuckwag0nLlorean: thanks for the help, hopefully rockbox can work for the 80g one day
01:52:20 Quit yossa ("Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox]")
01:54:19Lloreanchuckwag0n: People are working hard at it, it's likely to happen, but it's impossible to predict when.
01:54:57 Quit miepchen^schlaf (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:55:06dan_alostlogic: What happens if we do the things for set_cpu_frequency on both cores? My guess would be that things will work worse as the PLL will be reclocking more.
01:55:23 Join miepchen^schlaf [0] (
01:56:37Lloreanlostlogic: I screwed up the battery bench, so I'll have to run another one while I sleep tonight, unfortunately
01:57:46hcswhat's the story here? I've come in on the middle of this discussion a few times
01:57:53hcs(or should I just read the logs)
01:58:19 Quit muesli- ("ich will Kühe!!!")
01:58:27dan_ahcs: We're playing with the second PortalPlayer core again
01:59:07hcssounds like more success this round
01:59:25 Quit chuckwag0n ()
02:00:09dan_aWe're about ready to do some commits, and it seems that having the second core running doesn't hurt battery life (so doing processing on the second core should improve battery life)
02:02:54lostlogicLlorean: np :)
02:03:07nickv111Llorean: Hmm. It appears that I still need to use ipodpatcher to extract the boot partition
02:03:15nickv111Llorean: And it's not recognizing my iPod, so this doesn't work
02:03:25lostlogicdan_a: I'd guess the same WRT setting the cpu frequency on both cores
02:03:29lostlogicdan_a: but haven't tested it
02:03:29dan_alostlogic: Loading Rockbox using Rolo kills the main thread on the COP. Odd (sort of - I've not got my head around what we need to do with the mmap registers)
02:03:54Lloreannickv111: apparently the old-version ipodpatcher.exe is gone now. :(
02:04:09nickv111Llorean: So, what am I to do?
02:04:35lostlogicdan_a: I haven't actually looked earlier than main and cop_main... it's underneath my threshold of knowledge :-\
02:06:34 Join JdGordon [0] (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
02:08:09Lloreannickv111: You're on linux, no?
02:08:50Lloreannickv111: dd if=/dev/sda1 of=bootpartition.bin (not /sda1 not /sda), then once you have rockboot.bin, dd if=rockboot.bin of=/dev/sda1
02:09:13nickv111Oh, wow
02:09:13Llorean(note /sda1, not /sda)
02:09:26Lloreanipodpatcher is a simplified dd
02:09:47LloreanNow it does a bit more since it covers the ipod_fw steps for you
02:11:01nickv111But I can use ipod_fw. . .
02:11:15nickv111If I had ipod_fw
02:11:22nickv111Which I don't. All there is is an exe
02:11:38Lloreanipod_fw should be in the /tools/ folder of the Rockbox source archive
02:11:47LloreanIt's also a .c file on that page
02:11:58nickv111Oh. . .
02:12:15nickv111I prefer a .c file ;)
02:12:37LloreanWell, it would've been a .c file in the /tools/ folder too. :-P
02:12:42LloreanIt's just easier to download when it's sitting around on its own
02:18:20nickv111Well, now my iPod needs to charge
02:18:20 Join Semhirage [0] (n=semhirag@unaffiliated/semhirage)
02:18:26nickv111So, I can't try this out yet
02:21:51 Quit Semhirage (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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02:29:11JdGordonLlorean: re fs 6293, the playlist should reshuffle if repeat mode is repeat shuffle and shuffle is off yeah?
02:30:15LloreanShuffle: Off, Repeat: Shuffle should play through sequentially the first time, then shuffle for the next playthrough
02:30:31LloreanShuffle: On, Repeat: All, should shuffle once, then never reshuffle the playlist.
02:30:54JdGordonthe first is the bug, the 2nd shuold happen now yeah?
02:31:19LloreanDunno, I never really get through a playlist while I'm shufflling. :)
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02:32:24JdGordonhmm... aparently repeat all and shuffle off does shuffle the playlist before restarting
02:32:46Lloreanshuffle on, you mean?
02:33:05LloreanThat may be intentional
02:33:10LloreanI don't know whether it's supposed to reshuffle or not like that.
02:33:16JdGordonthen repeat shuffle is unesacery
02:33:42LloreanIt's still necessary for Shuffle: Off, Repeat: Shuffle, but only for that one situation.
02:34:06JdGordonrepeat all shuffle on tho shouldnt reshuffle tho
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02:34:30LloreanIn my mind, at least, it shouldn't
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02:38:01Tmanhey, I know this question doesn't quite belong in here, but I just got an iPod which I'm 99% sure is corrupt; does anyone know where I could get a disk image for a freshly formatted iPod (30GB 5.0G Video)?
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02:38:18JdGordonhmm.... the playlist code is horrible. I cant see why it is reshuffling if shuffle is off in repeat all mode
02:38:33Mouser_XSo, I'm wanting to buy a portable media player.
02:38:47Mouser_XWithin the $100-$150 range.
02:39:03Mouser_XWould someome please help me out, and offer suggestions?
02:39:08hcs(that plays rockbox, that is)
02:39:17Mouser_XHeh, good point.
02:39:47LloreanTman: Why not just follow the official Apple restore method?
02:39:53scorchein that range, all you really have are 1st gen nanos and the (soon to be a port) sansas
02:39:58Mouser_XI'd prefer not to get an iPod, but that all depends on pricing, availability, and features.
02:40:07LloreanMouser_X: You're not going to get much in the way of "media" players for that price range, usually that covers "Flash-based Audio Players"
02:40:08scorcheunless you find one of the older units for cheap on ebay
02:40:36TmanLlorean: well to give you an idea.. when my dad's windows computer finally registers the iPod as a disk (in normal or disk mode), iTunes hangs, and the iPod updater crashes
02:40:37LloreanMouser_X: But I'd says the Sansa e200 series is your best bet, since the retail firmware plays video (not great, but it does) and the hardware is nice.
02:40:38Mouser_XI'm seeing the iPod photo going for $100-$150 on eBay.
02:40:41Mouser_X30GB model.
02:41:13Mouser_X(30GB is the minimum storage I'm looking at)
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02:42:18TmanLlorean: ..might be more than a corrupt disk
02:43:44LloreanTman: In that case an image isn't going to do you much good, but you could start with a scandisk
02:44:32LloreanMouser_X: Then in that case you should probably go with the iPod Photo, if it does what you want
02:44:46Mouser_XSo, in the $100-$150 range, with 30GB of storage, that runs Rockbox, my options are at best, limited.
02:45:00Mouser_XYah, that's what I thought.
02:45:04*JdGordon was just on a wild goose hunt :'(
02:45:15JdGordonit doesnt shuffle if repeat all is on and shuffle is off
02:45:34nickv111Uh oh
02:45:40nickv111I may have bricked my iPod
02:45:52LloreanJdGordon: From the sounds of it, the bug is that it doesn't shuffle if Repeat is Shuffle, and Shuffle is Off
02:46:02Lloreannickv111: If you've managed that, I'll be impressed.
02:46:02nickv111I just did dd if=/dev/sda1 of=bootpartition.bin
02:46:16nickv111Then, I followed the steps on it from here:
02:46:31JdGordonLlorean: yeah, there was that which i've fixed, it was the other shuffling i needed to check
02:46:36nickv111I also have Rockbox already installed on it
02:46:52LloreanJdGordon: Ah
02:46:57nickv111And I just get an Apple on the screen
02:46:58Mouser_XLlorean: So, with the stuff I've told you, you'd say that the iPod photo is probably my best bet? Is there any other options that you can think of, from something other than the iPod brand? I'll probably go for the iPod, but if there's other options, I'd like to look.
02:46:58nickv111I tried resetting it, but to no avail
02:46:58Lloreannickv111: Then you made a mistake somewhere in the steps.
02:47:03nickv111But I can't seem to correct it is the problem
02:47:10Lloreannickv111: Toggle hold on then off, then hold the reset combination for about 15 seconds
02:47:41LloreanMouser_X: Well, the iRiver H140 is a good device if you can find it in that price range, but it's definitely an Audio Player not a Media Player
02:47:52nickv111Llorean: Nothing
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02:48:25nickv111Llorean: Nothing is happening now'
02:48:46LloreanYou've used the reset combination before?
02:48:46Mouser_XLlorean: When I say "media player" I'm refering to the fact that I have all kinds of stuff (mostly audio based) that I want to run. However, some of these formats may be CPU intensive (NSF, SPC, etc.).
02:49:14LloreanMouser_X: Most people mean Video by "Media player"
02:49:22Mouser_XI'll keep that in mind.
02:49:33LloreanMouser_X: NSF can run on the H140, SPC doesn't have support in Rockbox yet so I dunno, but it's very possible.
02:49:44nickv111Llorean: It's not doing anything
02:49:46Lloreannickv111: What buttons are you holding?
02:49:50Mouser_XI'll look for the H140, thanks.
02:49:54nickv111Llorean: Middle button and menu
02:50:12LloreanOn 1st through 3rd generations it's Menu + Play/Pause
02:50:20LloreanMenu + Select is 4th generation onward
02:50:36nickv111Oh, there we go
02:50:41nickv111Menu + Play/Pause
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02:52:05Mouser_XHow old is the H140?
02:52:07nickv111What's the right way to go into disk mode?
02:52:19Lloreannickv111: Immediately after rebooting hold FF and RW down to force it into disk mode, from which you can DD the original bootpartition.bin back and make sure everything runs normally
02:52:21Mouser_XAs far as I can tell, I can't find any on eBay...
02:52:33LloreanMouser_X: It's a few years old.
02:52:58Mouser_XiPod it is then, it looks like.
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02:53:06Mouser_XThat's what I figured.
02:53:08LloreanThey seem to be scarce.
02:53:11LloreanThey were popular a few months back.
02:53:21LloreanMaybe all eaten up during Christmas though
02:53:26Mouser_XGood point.
02:53:35nickv111Llorean: Okay, and my computer's still not recognizing it
02:53:40Lloreannickv111: You're in disk mode?
02:53:56Mouser_XThat's one of the reasons I'm looking now, actually. I figured, prices are down, and people are selling off the ones they don't want.
02:53:59nickv111Llorean: I don't think so. It's not showing up on dmesg
02:54:08Lloreannickv111: What does the iPod screen show?
02:54:12nickv111Llorean: Apple.
02:54:19Lloreanthen you didn't hold them early enough
02:54:30LloreanDisk mode will show a screen much like the normal connection screen.
02:54:46nickv111I hold them as soon as the screen cuts out
02:54:50LloreanThis is all in a flash ROM in the device, so nothing you've done to the hard disk can remove this functionality.
02:55:05nickv111I IMMEDIATELY press FF and RW, and it still doesn't show anything
02:55:21LloreanYou press and HOLD them?
02:55:42LloreanHow long?
02:55:49nickv111Until it shows the Apple logo
02:55:59LloreanYou're probably releasing too early
02:56:16quaderis there anyone that can help to get the gigabeat rockbox?
02:56:27quaderjust a simple install question
02:56:37LloreanTry holding them for a good amount of time, as the Apple logo should display then continue on to the disk mode screen if you hold them down long enough.
02:57:07Lloreanquader: They haven't submitted their code to us, it is at the moment an unofficial port and best asked in their channel where people actually know how to use it.
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02:57:35quadersorry I thought they were in this channel thank you though
02:57:39nickv111Llorean: Hmm.
02:57:42nickv111Llorean: Still nothing
02:57:48nickv111Llorean: I probably held it down for well over a minute
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02:59:29Lloreannickv111: Well, another set of instructions says reset, and then when you see the apple logo THEN press the Fast forward and Rewind buttons, so I guess try that.
02:59:57Lloreannickv111: As I said, it's in flash, and nothing you've done can remove this functionality, so it's all a matter of you not doing it right. Since I've never used a 3G iPod, I don't know the timing for it.
03:00:18nickv111Llorean: That didn't work either
03:03:40LloreanWell I don't know what to say. Everything I know about the hardware says that it's still an issue of you not doing it quite right, but I dunno.
03:04:01nickv111Llorean: Me either
03:04:13nickv111Llorean: I just don't know what to do no
03:04:29nickv111It's most likely not broken, but I don't know how to get into disk mode
03:07:31Mouser_XWell, thanks for your help on the portable player deal.
03:07:53Mouser_XIt looks like I'll have to get it refurbished (that doesn't surprise me) if I want it to be within my price range.
03:08:59nickv111Llorean: What should I do now?
03:09:34BHSPitMonkeyMouser_X, be careful with that approach... hard-drive based players do have a tendency to have a shelf life
03:10:05Mouser_XWell, I figure that being refurbished, they'd have that looked into.
03:10:12Lloreannickv111: As I said, I don't know. I don't have a 3G, and have never even touched one, so I've come to the limit of what help I can offer. If someone with a 3G were around, perhaps they could give you better advice, but I fear nobody is.
03:10:20Mouser_XI guess I just have to much faith in the corprate world...
03:10:40nickv111Llorean: I just can't believe I can't get into disk move
03:10:43argonelnickv111: it still has the apple firmware on it?
03:10:45nickv111argonel: Yes.
03:10:58argonelnickv111: what is it displaying atm?
03:11:02nickv111argonel: Apple
03:11:12nickv111argonel: Wait, maybe it doesn't have apple firmware
03:11:17nickv111I replaced the boot partition
03:11:36nickv111Actually, I think I put the Rockbox firmware on it
03:11:44nickv111Like, I combined the disk image with the firmware
03:12:00nickv111Anyway, it's displaying an apple
03:12:02nickv111No backlight
03:12:09argoneli'm not entirely certain how its going to behave.. you should be able to get it into disk mode if the disk is working
03:12:25argonelwhat have you got it plugged into?
03:12:29nickv111My computer
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03:12:37argonelusb or firewire?
03:14:02argonelso press and hold the play and menu buttons till the apple logo goes away and comes back, switch to holding the next and previous buttons until the apple logo changes to something else
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03:15:25JdGordonok, next question.... shohuold the delete screen update more often (and show which file is being deleted) instead of just saying the directory and looking like its frozen?
03:15:34JdGordonthe exra updates will slow it down a bit possibly
03:16:03nickv111argonel: See, I've tried this multiple times, but all I get is an Apple. It never changes
03:16:03LloreanJdGordon: Maybe update every 3 seconds?
03:16:06nickv111But I have to go eat. BRB
03:16:27argonelnickv111: does the apple logo even blink when resetting?
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03:17:25JdGordonLlorean: well, atm ive got it showing each file it deletes. I could make tha every 3 sec, but on large files it will mis updates and still look frozen
03:18:20LloreanJdGordon: Yes, but not for terribly long, still
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03:20:21sidI got an iPod for Christmas, a 30 gig one. :(
03:20:42AbcminiuserWhat's wrong with that?
03:20:50Mouser_XYes, that's what I want...
03:21:00Mouser_Xsid: Want to sell it to me?
03:21:03sidIt's non-free software and commodity hardware.
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03:21:15AbcminiuserI'll take it!
03:21:24Mouser_XI'll pay for it!
03:21:25AbcminiuserA little RockBox love will help it...
03:21:31sidI got speakers with it, and the fm transmitter and some kickstand case too
03:21:38falzconsidering getting an ipod, but would like to use an alternate OS on it. found rockbox, sounds nice. a few questions..
03:22:09sidIs there anything Rockbox has that the proprietary non-free iPod software doesn't have? or vise versa
03:22:22falzI know rockbox is ported to many devices, more than just the ipod- does anyone know offhand if using "dock" like features such as a car stereo that can control an ipod are properly emulated back from rockbox?
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03:22:33AbcminiuserRockbox can record sound to MP3, WAV, etc
03:22:44Mouser_XIt can play ADX, and NSF.
03:22:46AbcminiuserIt can run third party plugins, like games
03:22:51AbcminiuserPlay MANY MANY more formats
03:22:54sidCan I play .ogg(theora+vorbis)?
03:22:57Mouser_XLots of other stuff, but that's what's important for me.
03:23:12AbcminiuserManage the files on the iPod rather than having to use the computer
03:23:16hcsfalz: the remote control stuff doesn't work just now, afaik
03:23:22AbcminiuserYou can customize the interface
03:23:35AbcminiuserCONS: AWFUL battery life, database system isn't as good
03:23:38hcsit does have pause/resume on headphone disconnect, though...
03:23:39Mouser_Xsid: Yes, Rockbox can play OGG.
03:23:40falzhcs: I'll check the wiki to see if there's any dev talk on it. can one "dual boot" with rockbox? or must it be usb'd and uninstalled?
03:23:49AbcminiuserYep, dualboot
03:24:06falznice. how long does a boot take? and, is the filesystem readable by both?
03:24:10AbcminiuserHold MENU on startup, or turn on the hold switch on startup
03:24:10falzie, if I wanted non-drm'd mp3's just thrown on there?
03:24:19hcsboth apple firmware and rockbox will read FAT32
03:24:33AbcminiuserFalz, bootup is about 5 secs on my 4G iPod
03:24:33falzso the newer ipods are all fat32?
03:24:33hcsbut apple needs the files in a special database to see them
03:24:33AbcminiuserAnd no, the filesystem's are different
03:24:43AbcminiuserWell, yes
03:24:46falzslick. I was reading how to mount it in linux, and everything I read was hfs shit, it must have been out of date.
03:24:59AbcminiuserBut iTunes mangles all the file names, so no point in Rockbox being able to see them
03:25:00hcsyou can get them either hfs or fat formatted
03:25:21hcsAbcminiuser: it is possible to convert the iTunesDB to rockbox's database format
03:25:27AbcminiuserBut you'll need to make sure it's FAT32
03:25:28falzI thought they were all one way or another since they dropped the firewire support
03:25:47AbcminiuserHCS: Jiggered if I know
03:25:52falzok, that all sounds good.
03:25:57AbcminiuseriTunes buggers the filenames when it copies them over
03:26:03falzthe only way I could buy an apple product is if it didnt run apple software. :)
03:26:08AbcminiuserAnd rockbox uses filenames nativly rather than the ID3 tags
03:26:24falzwith rockbox, would say, an ipod, be able to be just a mountable drive that I can throw files on, and rock reads 'em?
03:26:26AbcminiuserAlthough I did manage to get it stuck in ID3 mode once, I need to re-read the manual...
03:26:35AbcminiuserYep, it appears as a removable disk
03:26:46AbcminiuserChuck whatever you want on it, and RockBox will read it
03:27:08Mouser_XAs long as it's a format it can handle.
03:27:15falzok, what about something like point to point usb, if one wanted to dump a bunch of digicam images to it while on vaca or something?
03:27:37Mouser_XI was going to say that.
03:27:38hcsnot possible with the hardware, I understand
03:27:51Mouser_XYah, I read through that section of the site a day or 2 ago.
03:27:52AbcminiuserNo, it is on some of the iPods
03:28:06Mouser_XOh, cool.
03:28:08AbcminiuserUSB to Go functionalty, but there's no docs on the chips, so it can't be implemented
03:28:12falza friend of mine did it with an ipod from ~2 years ago. indeed, I need to check if harware is supported.
03:28:25falzI assumed there was a simple p2p usb spec or something that they adhered to.
03:28:27AbcminiuserAt least, not with Rockbox unless Apple helps
03:29:22Mouser_XWell, I think that if you successfully disassemble the original software (and can read/interpret/port that stuff) that you could figure it out.
03:29:24hcsrockbox can't use the usb at all, just now
03:29:44Mouser_XIt'd definatly take a lot of work though.
03:29:49AbcminiuserYes, but disassembly is a PAIN in the butt, especially if it's obfuscated
03:30:06AbcminiuserHCS, you can obviously load songs through the USB
03:30:16AbcminiuserBut you can't use the iPod as a USB host
03:30:16hcsbut not from within rockbox
03:30:17falzyea, that's what my questionmark was about.
03:30:25falzI see, so rockbox runs at a higher level?
03:30:31AbcminiuserNot quite
03:30:45AbcminiuserActually, it just hooks into the emergency disk mode code from the Apple bootloader I believe
03:31:01AbcminiuserSo when you plug in the USB, RockBox shuts down and it reboots into disk mode
03:31:03hcsanyone with flyspray knowledge: is it possible that a patch submission was lost?
03:31:28hcswhen the server went down the other day?
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03:31:58AbcminiuserHCS, quite possible, but I have no knowledge
03:32:04AbcminiuserDepends on what the problem was
03:32:19AbcminiuserThey might have had to restore from a backup, for instance
03:32:21sidI'm on Debian GNU/Linux, what rockbox build do I want? for the 30 gig iPod
03:32:22Mouser_XSPC player patch from Pagefault.
03:34:00hcshe claims to have submitted it, but it was just before the server went down, dang it all
03:34:13argonelnickv111: well, ping me when you return.. there are quite a few more things to try
03:34:31hcshopefully when he gets back home he can put it up again
03:37:23hcsI'm sure he's getting tired of me asking about it...
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03:37:59Mouser_XHow about I ask about it next time?
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03:38:53sidIf I put music on the iPod when it has proprietary software, and then I put rockbox(free/libre software) will my music still be there? or do I have to format over that?
03:40:08hcsyour music will still be there, but if it is DRM protected you will not be able to play it with rockbox
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03:40:53Mouser_Xsid: Did your question get answered?
03:41:13zifHowdy! My 2nd gen iPod Mini is stuck on the rockbox USB cable screen... does anyone have an idea how to fix it?
03:41:28sidMouser_X: no
03:41:38Mouser_XIt will still be there.
03:41:41Mouser_XBut, the file names will be mangled.
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03:41:44Mouser_XMeaning, completely meaningless.
03:41:49Mouser_XID3 tags will be intact though.
03:41:59sidk, I have good id3 tags so that's good.
03:42:04argonelheh isn't that a lovely feature
03:42:05sidWhy do they mangle the filenames?
03:42:12sidis that some anti-piracy measure? heh
03:42:12Mouser_XNo idea.
03:42:21sidor a filesystem limitation?
03:42:29argonelprobably a bit of both
03:42:31Mouser_XThough, part of it might be that they put all the files into one big folder.
03:42:50sidWhich rockbox I want?
03:42:59Mouser_XThat I don't know.
03:43:07sidI'm excited to start using the iPod but I don't want to use the proprietary crap.
03:43:10Mouser_X(I don't have a portable player yet, nor Rockbox.)
03:43:26Mouser_X(This is why I offered to buy yours...)
03:43:51sidWell my girlfriend went crazy...and she wants to keep it
03:44:00argonelisn't a new 30g is probably a 5.5?
03:44:12sidSo now so I feel better about supporting evil drm infested companies like APple I have to at least put free/libre software on it.
03:44:34falzhas anyone heard of any non-apple mp3 players that are compatible with all of the boomboxes, car head units, etc? non-apple that appears to be an ipod and is able to be controlled and such.
03:45:45argonelthose things probably require an apple compatible dock connector
03:46:03falzI mean a competing mp3 player that uses the same dock
03:46:06sidI have the 5g generation, according to
03:46:24Mouser_XMy brother has an MP3 player that has an FM transmitter, so it can transmit the songs to your car radio.
03:47:01falzmy stereo can control an ipod and list tracks on screen and such, I'm seeing if anything exists like that so I don't have to give apple any money, which I've vowed to not do.
03:47:11sid$ file -s /dev/sda2
03:47:13sid/dev/sda2: x86 boot sector, code offset 0x3c, OEM-ID "*UOKJIHC", Bytes/sector 2048, sectors/cluster 8, Media descriptor 0xf8, heads 255, hidden sectors 48195, sectors 14603082 (volumes > 32 MB) , FAT (32 bit), sectors/FAT 3565, serial number 0x5b99a10a, label: "IPOD
03:47:21sidSo it's fat32, so I don't need to reformat it.
03:47:25argoneli think belkin make an fm wireless unit that just plugs into the headphone jack
03:47:31sid(Can I use ext3, isn't that superior for large files and such?)
03:47:41argonelsid: i don't know what the difference is between a 5 and a 5.5
03:47:41hcsargonel: yep, and I have it
03:47:55hcssid: no, rockbox doesn't support ext3
03:48:23***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
03:48:30sidSo I just get the source code and compile it and throw it on the iPod? It's that simple?(via the dd command)
03:48:54hcsyou could get the daily precompiled build, too
03:49:14hcsbut essentially, yes, the bootloader needs to be dd'd but the rest is just copied into the filesystem
03:49:15sidhcs: Where is that?
03:49:20argonelsid: there appear to be instructions -
03:49:34sidyea, I read the instructions a couple times
03:49:43sidjust a little nervous about overwriting the mbr, just double checking
03:49:59hcskeep a backup and therefore no worry
03:50:25hcsThere is a 2 day period without any flyspray submissions, it must have fallen in there...
03:50:30argonelsid: i understand.. no reason to desire a brand-new christmas brick :)
03:51:59argonelyou might be able to convince applecare to replace it though, if you never ever mention playing with the firmware or linux or anything other than itunes 7 :)
03:52:20sidNow as root I type "dd if=/dev/sda of=mbr.bin count=1" while in the directory where mbr.bin is(rename ipod_fw to mbr.bin right?)
03:52:27nickv111argonel: The Apple logo turns off when resetting, and then comes back on.
03:52:37argonelnickv111: ok, so its not unresponsive
03:52:41sido wait, wtf this is a backup
03:52:57argonelnickv111: as i recall the 3g doesn't charge by usb.. what does it do if you unplug it from the computer?
03:53:15argonelipods can be a little hard to get into disk mode if the battery is low
03:53:33nickv111argonel: It just sits there, not turning off
03:53:54argonelnickv111: have you an ipod power adapter?
03:54:14nickv111argonel: Yeah, and I just left it plugged in while I ate
03:54:30argonelnickv111: into the ac instead of the computer via usb?
03:54:48nickv111argonel: Into the AC
03:54:59argonelnickv111: ok. so does the backlight come on when you try to reset?
03:55:43nickv111argonel: No
03:56:02argonelnickv111: when its plugged into the ac, does the apple logo blink at all?
03:56:17argonelits somewhere around once a minute iirc
03:56:33nickv111Let me atch it
03:57:17nickv111argonel: I don't think it is
03:58:07 Quit LTjake ("Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox 2.0/0000000000]")
03:58:08sidMy bootpartition.bin command is up to 2.7 gigs now
03:58:26siddd if=/dev/sda2 of=bootpartition.bin
03:58:31sidIs this normal?
03:58:39nickv111It should be /dev/sda1
03:58:49argonelnickv111: well, it may respond to disk mode now that its on the ac.. when resetting, you see the apple logo go away and come back, as soon as its gone get the ff/rev buttons down and hold them until it goes into disk mode, or about 2 mins has gone by
03:58:53nickv111The reason it's so big is because you're writing the wrong partition.
04:00:38nickv111argonel: Nope, nothing
04:00:43nickv111argonel: Still on the Apple logo
04:02:23sidI don't see the iPod 5th generation listed
04:02:31argonelnickv111: whats your battery life been like lately?
04:02:48nickv111argonel: I don't know, man. I just got the iPod
04:02:52 Quit Semhirage (Remote closed the connection)
04:03:01argonelnickv111: thought it was a 3g?
04:03:17nickv111argonel: It is
04:03:18nickv111argonel: It's used
04:03:28argonelnickv111: is it apple refurbed?
04:03:28nickv111argonel: A few years old, too
04:03:31hcssid: iPod video
04:03:38nickv111argonel: No, I just got it from my mom
04:03:53nickv111argonel: She got a new iPod, so she let me have her old 10GB 3g
04:03:54argonelnickv111: ok. it it were refurbed i'd say let the battery die and get a replacement :p
04:04:21argonelnickv111: normally in this situation i'd recommend to let the battery die and then charge it up again
04:04:36 Quit lostnihilist ("Leaving")
04:04:38argonelnickv111: problem with that is sometimes they won't charge back up, in which case the ipod *is* a brick
04:04:45sidhcs: that is the package I want fo the 30 gig 5th generation iPod? (My model number on the back is A1136)
04:05:09hcsno, that's for the ondio
04:05:16nickv111argonel: Mmm...
04:05:16sid is that link dead for anyone else?
04:05:19argonelnickv111: of course, the "reset" you do is a warm boot, and letting the battery die is a cold boot
04:05:19hcsthe links are below the image
04:05:39argonelnickv111: perhaps cracking it open and disconnecting the battery will cold boot it, and let you get it into disk mode
04:05:52sidhcs: that one?
04:05:56*nickv111 shudders
04:06:05sidThat link is dead also.
04:06:06nickv111argonel: How is a cold boot different?
04:06:15sidAnyone else finding dead links on the site?
04:06:27nickv111sid: Yeah. Click "old"
04:06:31hcssid: yes, that's the one you want, yes, it's dead
04:06:42sid ?
04:07:00argonelnickv111: afaik the ipod reset isn't a exactly a hardware reset, its asking the bootloader to restart
04:07:27hcs is more recent
04:07:34argonelnickv111: if the bootloader is the right "kind of unhappy", it doesn't restart properly
04:07:44nickv111argonel: This really sucks
04:07:45hcsany fonts package you can get should be fine
04:09:09argonelnickv111: at what point did this instructions you were following fail?
04:10:21nickv111argonel: I basically did dd if=/dev/sda1 of=bootpartition.bin
04:10:43nickv111argonel: Then I used the fw utility (forget what it's called) and made a new image
04:10:49nickv111argonel: Which I wrote back to /dev/sda1
04:10:59nickv111argonel: Then, I unplugged it, it reset, and here I am
04:11:04sidombine the bootloader and the Apple firmware into a new boot partition image: ./ipod_fw -g nano -o rockboot.bin -i apple_os.bin bootloader-nano.bin Replace -g nano with the model of your ipod - type ./ipod_fw without any arguments for usage instructions.
04:11:11sidI'm confused by that step, what do I put?
04:11:12argonelnickv111: sounds like the end of step 3
04:11:29nickv111argonel: Sure
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04:11:43nickv111argonel: Keep in mind that I did install Rockbox on this iPod, so I'm surprised that it hasn't just booted into Rockbox
04:12:09 Quit Mouser_X (Nick collision from services.)
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04:12:19Mouser_Xargonel: Did you see where I asked for suggestions on a portable player? If yes, do you have any additional suggestions to those already given? If not, then don't worry about it.
04:12:56argonelnickv111: so perhaps, instead of shooting for disk mode, try holding menu just after the logo goes away after resetting (note that you probably have to let go and repress menu)
04:13:46nickv111argonel: Nothing.
04:13:53argonelMouser_X: no, i didn't.. i myself haven't decided which hardware to buy. was thinking about the sansa e280
04:14:15Mouser_XNot enough storage for me.
04:14:35sid./ipod_fw -g 5g -o rockboot.bin -i apple_os.bin ???
04:14:37sidIs that right?
04:14:53sidWhere do I put the apple_sw_5g_rcsc.bin firmware do I need that?
04:15:20argonelnickv111: i'm fairly adept at normal troubleshooting with ipods, but we're a wee bit beyond normal atm :)
04:15:40nickv111argonel: I don't know what to do
04:15:53nickv111I may just pop it open
04:15:56argonelnickv111: because we don't have the recourse of just sending it to apple to have them swap it, i don't want to give you instructions that *will* brick it
04:16:09nickv111Oh, gimme! GIMME!
04:16:16argonelnickv111: hehe
04:16:21nickv111Would that brick it?
04:16:27Mouser_XThat was going to be my suggestion...
04:16:28argonelnickv111: no, that would unbrick it
04:16:49nickv111Maybe a blender would do it. . .
04:16:53argonelit would be fun though
04:17:01sidMouser_X: Is that command right?
04:17:09Mouser_XI've never used Linux.
04:17:15Mouser_XI would have no idea.
04:17:22argonelMouser_X: maybe an iaudio x5l?
04:17:33argonel(or cowon, whatever they're called this week)
04:17:46sidWhat is the name of the bootloader file?
04:17:53Mouser_XMinimum stoarage I'm looking for is in the 30GB+ range.
04:18:18argonelthat makes the field pretty narrow, doesn't it?
04:18:39Mouser_XYes, it does narrow it a bit.
04:19:29argonelMouser_X: well, the x5 comes in a 30gb, with a remote :)
04:19:53sidAny GNU/Linux users here?
04:19:57Mouser_XBut, the remote isn't supported in Rockbox yet...
04:20:09nickv111sid: Me
04:20:28nickv111sid: But I have a potentially bricked iPod on my hands, so I may not be the best person to ask
04:20:30hcssid: no, you don't need to do anything with that other firmware, it is just for backup purposes
04:20:34sidnickv111: Is that command right? For step 3 from
04:20:43Mouser_XAlso the price range I'm shooting for is about $100-$150. Much higher than that, and I'm running into trouble.
04:20:52argonelnickv111: the reason i'm hesitant to tell you to let the battery die is because if the ipod subsequently won't take a charge, its a brick
04:21:10sidhcs: So the "./ipod_fw -g 5g -o rockboot.bin -i apple_os.bin" command is right? the step 3 on the link I just posted shows "/ipod_fw -g nano -o rockboot.bin -i apple_os.bin bootloader-nano.bin"
04:21:14nickv111argonel: It's a brick now.
04:21:37argonelnickv111: 9 times out of 10, it works just fine. but because i'm not an ipod depot tech, i don't know what happens in the 10th case. they resurrect them somehow though
04:22:04nickv111argonel: Meh. I'll try it
04:22:21argonelnickv111: or just open it and disconnect the battery for a few seconds
04:22:23nickv111argonel: If it doesn't work, well, it's not your fault.
04:22:24hcssid: it looks correct to me
04:22:37Mouser_Xargonel: Isn't there a way to replace the batteries, if need be?
04:22:49argoneli'm fairly certain they're easy to open without injuring it.. i think someone even put up photos with instructions
04:22:50hcssid: oh, wait, yeah
04:23:07hcssid: you need the rockbox firmware name on the end (bootloader-video.bin, I assume)
04:23:20sidhcs: ; did that execute properly?
04:23:21Mouser_Xargonel: I was going to say that I thought I had seen instructions somewhere...
04:23:27sidhcs: ok
04:23:36argonelMouser_X: i'm operating under the belief that the firmware has to mediate charging
04:23:41sidI'll do it again hcs? with the "bootloader-video.bin" at the end?
04:23:55sidBut delete rockboot.bin first?
04:23:57argonelMouser_X: someone who's actually hacked on the ipod firmware would know whether thats true or not
04:23:58nickv111I think you guys would like
04:23:58hcsdid you get a bootloader-video.bin file as the bootloader?
04:24:11Mouser_Xargonel: I guess that could be the case.
04:24:17sidhcs: no, I don't have that file.
04:24:40 Join strabes [0] (
04:25:01hcssid: you might want to check out the other installation steps, which are more complete and up to date, as mentioned at the top of that page
04:25:19 Quit strabes (Client Quit)
04:25:28argonelwhat i do know is that most of the time when people had left their ipods on the charger when it was frozen with apple + no backlight, it didn't do anything, and would die if unplugged. then, leaving it for 24h and charging again, it would go into disk mode most of the time
04:25:55nickv111argonel: Worth a try
04:26:04 Join Mouser_X3 [0] (
04:26:16 Quit Mouser_X (Nick collision from services.)
04:26:19Soaplet's disspell some misunderstandings.
04:26:23argonelthe 24h was probably to let the battery and any caps that are holding a residual charge drain
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04:26:39SoapMouser_X: yes, ipod batteries are easily replacable.
04:26:49Mouser_XI thought so.
04:26:53Soapargonel: no - hardware does charging, not firmware.
04:26:55argonelso perhaps disconnecting the battery would simulate that.
04:27:50argonelSoap: ok, thats good to know :)
04:28:13hcssid: it looks like the tools mentioned on do the dd'ing for you
04:28:18Soapnickv111: your ipod is not a brick now, but you don't have apple firmware on it to boot. I promise you that restoring it with iTunes on a PC will make it good as new. Stop using the word brick unless you are willing to sell me it for $50.
04:28:37hcs$50 is an expensive brick
04:28:51SoapI'll pay $50 for his "bricked" player.
04:28:58SoapThat is a standing offer.
04:28:58Mouser_XSoap: How easy? Like, could I do it with only a screw driver, and in less than 10 minutes?
04:29:17hcsduring a decatholon?
04:29:23SoapMouser_X: you can do it with the free plastic tools most battery places give you with a battery order in 10 mins.
04:29:25argoneli'll be surprised if the updater will see the ipod, but i guess it might
04:29:51nickv111Soap: I'll try it
04:29:54Soapargonel: Why would the updater not see it?
04:30:06hcsSoap: any recommendation for a battery place that I can reasonably expect will not sell me exploding/substandard batteries
04:30:08argonelSoap: updater only sees ipods that mount
04:30:11SoapOh, his failure to get it into disk mode.
04:30:12sidhcs: "b) Unzip and to your iPod" the and files are what they mean right?
04:30:24hcssid: yes
04:30:49argonelnickv111: had it been used with itunes 7?
04:31:09SoapHis failure to get it into disk mode is odd, but there is no reason to believe it is unfixable. Disk mode is in the flash, he didn't write to the flash. Without being mean, I MUST believe operator error.
04:31:21SoapOr else he has a broken FF or REV button.
04:31:44Mouser_X(Heh, I've had one of those on an older player of mine.)
04:31:47argonelcould be, i didn't recommend any of the reset tricks for mini/nano because its a 3g
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04:33:03nickv111Soap: I tried with iTunes
04:33:10nickv111Soap: It didn't even recognize the iPod
04:33:16sidBy default with the 5g video ipod, can I access it as a disk?
04:33:17argonelnickv111: what version of itunes?
04:33:23hcssid: yes
04:33:24nickv111Whatever the latest version is
04:33:29sid"ensure that iTunes is set up to allow you to access your ipod as a disk, and then unzip both and to the top-level (root) folder on your iPod."
04:33:39nickv111Anyway, maybe the FF or RW button is broken
04:33:41Soapsid, yes
04:33:42nickv111I've tried many times to get into disk mode
04:34:03argonelsid: an ipod that set up to automatically sync will get ejected by itunes if there's no updates to make
04:34:06nickv111Soap: Would letting the battery run out and then starting it up again possibly do the trick
04:34:17SoapI'm afraid not.
04:34:20 Quit falz ()
04:34:50nickv111Soap: Then what should I do? I've tried to get into disk mode dozens of times
04:35:16Soapdo you know the FF and REV buttons were working earlier?
04:35:28nickv111Soap: I'm not sure
04:35:47nickv111Soap: Honestly, I got it, and immediately tried to put Rockbox on it
04:35:50sid that is for the 5g ipod right?
04:35:59nickv111sid: Yes.
04:36:17Soapsid, that is the right name - I assume you are posting the link from the IpodInstallBetaBlah wiki page?
04:36:34Soap(or whatever the full name is, can't think off the top of my head right this second)
04:36:34argonelnickv111: one thing i noticed with a lot of people resetting minis, and to a lesser extent nanos, is that they were holding them in their hands to reset, and not getting the buttons down correctly. having them set it down and use the tips of their fingers often helped
04:36:48nickv111argonel: I'll try it
04:36:54sidSoap: yes, from beta guide page
04:37:18siddamn, I'm girlfriend will whip me if I fuck this up. heh
04:37:24sidI'll be in the dog house for a year.
04:37:29sidBut it's worth it for freedom!
04:37:45Soapgood point argonel, and last thing, reset works, as soon as that apple icon REappears, press and hold FF/REV until the cows come home.
04:38:31argonelSoap: yeah, i don't know what it does when resetting, i've seen it take a while to get into disk mode... but, not often more than 2 mins with a working HD
04:38:41nickv111Soap: Wait, you're supposed to hold them as soon as the screen goes white or as soon as the Apple appears?
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04:39:01goffaanyone know what error -2 means?
04:39:10argonelnickv111: how long is it going away for?
04:39:14goffai've got a gigabeat if its player specific
04:39:40nickv111argonel: A second?
04:39:54argoneliirc it should go blank, black, apple logo, lit apple logo "ok to disconnect"
04:40:40argonelso as soon as you see the apple logo reappear, go for disk mode
04:41:24argonelif you're just getting apple logo -> very short gray screen -> apple logo, its not resetting
04:41:42nickv111That's what I'm getting
04:42:15sid./ipodpatcher /dev/sda -a bootloader-ipodvideo.ipod
04:42:15argonelhow long is the grey screen? like a blink, or is it gone for a while?
04:42:18nickv111I hold down the buttons, the screen goes white for less than a second, and then I get the apple again
04:42:18sidI did that command, am I done?
04:42:28sidHow do I know if I was sucessful? is that the last step?
04:43:19nickv111sid: I guess so. Disconnect your iPod and see
04:44:05Soapnickv111: as soon as the apple appears according to the last site I read.
04:44:16argonelnickv111: i'm sorry to say its been about a year and a half since i saw a 3g reset with my own eyes
04:44:31sidyea, I guess it's rockbox
04:44:55Soapdon't sound so enthused.
04:45:03argonelhere's the kbase for it -
04:45:04Soaprockbox boots to the file tree browser.
04:45:05nickv111sid: You're lucky. Mine is dying. Dying before my eyes!
04:45:06*nickv111 cries
04:45:27sidI went to browse themes, and it brings me back to the main menu.
04:45:39sidHow can I increase the font size for the menus?
04:45:49argonelnickv111: in my experience the ipod doesn't like to go into disk mode with a low battery
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04:46:19argonelnickv111: if i were you i'd get a hold of your mom and find out if the << >> buttons both worked and when it was last charged, and what its battery life was like
04:46:41sidWhen I try to go into any just brings me to the main menu again.
04:47:04hcsare you pressing the select (center) button to confirm?
04:47:42Soapread the manual sid\
04:47:44sidI've never used the iPod before, I didn't even look at the proprietary software, I just opened it from the box a couple hours ago.
04:47:53sid(it took me that long to put rockbox on it) heh
04:48:05hcsrockbox uses menu to go to the main menu, select to activate things, and the left button to go back in menus or the filesystem browser
04:48:21hcslong press of select to bring up a context menu (like a right click in windows)
04:48:22argonelnickv111: i'll have access to a 3g tomorrow, so i can reverify how it behaves going into disk mode
04:48:37nickv111argonel: I think I'm going to charge it overnight
04:48:54argonelnickv111: ok.. we'll see what its doing then
04:49:43nickv111Uh oh. That's an important piece of information
04:49:45nickv111I just talked to my mom
04:49:51nickv111She says the << button doesn't work
04:50:12nickv111Umm. . . Hmm
04:50:13argoneltime to crack it open :)
04:50:41sidHow do I put music on my iPod with Rhythmbox, heh. I'm such a noob. I can compile my own kernels, or setup a web server with a message board and shopping cart or whatever, but I can't figure out these silly handheld media devices.
04:50:45nickv111Once I'm in, how do I activate a button?
04:51:08sidI selected an album(Pink Floyd) I have all the songs highlighted, and I drag them over to iPod on the rhythmbox menu and they don't seem to transfer.
04:51:26hcsI have no idea how rhythmbox works, just copy it over to the filesystem
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04:51:32argonelnickv111: depends on why the button doesn't work
04:51:50argonelnickv111: and on what kind of button it is.. i'm looking for a photo now
04:53:15argoneli'm betting they're just membrane switches
04:53:28argonelmicroswitches are expensive
04:54:45argonelSoap: are there pcb scans on the wiki somewhere?
04:56:00nickv111Okay, the iPod is open
04:56:07argoneloh, found them on ipodlinux
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04:56:24nickv111Is there a shock risk on an iPod?
04:56:49argonelnot to you
04:56:56nickv111But to the iPod. . .
04:57:04nickv111So, I should do this in the basement
04:57:12nickv111But what is to be done?
04:57:12argonelmost things are static sensitive, yes
04:57:37argonelnickv111: are the buttons little membranes with black dots on the bottom?
04:57:52nickv111I'll have to remove the board from the iPod
04:59:49sidWhat do you GNU/Linux users use to transfer music from your hdd on your desktop to the iPod when it's running rockbox?
05:00:37hcssid: cp -r
05:01:38argonelooh, high tech :p
05:01:51nickv111cat | cat | cat | cat | cat. . .
05:02:15hcsceci n'est pas une |
05:03:15nickv111I have a feeling I have no idea what I'm doing
05:03:25nickv111The disk drive just, well, fell out of my iPod
05:03:32nickv111And I don't even think it was connected to anything in the first place.
05:04:01argonelafaik it is socketed
05:04:17nickv111It's inside this rubber sleeve
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05:04:22hesperauxhello everyone ^_^
05:04:48hesperauxi've been looking over the rockbox site while deciding which PMP to buy
05:05:00sidhcs: What do I just mkdir /media/ipod/music ?
05:05:07hesperauxi want to get the Cowon A2, but I don't believe it has support in Rockbox.
05:05:15hcssid: sure, if that's where you want to put the files
05:05:17hesperauxI was just wondering if there is any buzz about there ever beeing support for the A2?
05:05:24argonelok, i think i finally found the guide
05:05:32hcssid: needs to be mounted first, of course
05:05:52sidhcs: What directory are the usually put by default?
05:05:59sidhcs: It is mounted.
05:06:03hcsthere is no default
05:06:03nickv111argonel: Thanks
05:06:14sidrhythmbox is looking at the proprietary default place, and I think it's messing up.
05:06:42hcssid: yeah, probably, it'll be looking for a database which probably isn't there, iTunes generates it
05:07:18hcsbut rhythmbox should be able to generate the file structure afresh, if it uses libgpod
05:07:52nickv111I don't know, guys
05:07:57argonelhesperaux: i haven't seen much.. there is brief mention on
05:08:03nickv111IIRC, when I opened it up, the hard drive wasn't connected to anything
05:08:39hesperauxargonel, well, since it's part of the iAudio platform (sort of), would it be similar to developing for the X5?
05:08:39argonelnickv111: well, if it wasn't plugged in, it wouldn't have booted. was it working before you started this?
05:08:41hesperauxor am i totally wrong ^_^
05:09:27argonelhesperaux: i read that there was a gpl firmware on it (unbuildable), but i wasn't able to find a copy of it anywhere, the link is dead
05:09:36nickv111argonel: Yeah
05:09:46hesperauxyeah, just noticed that hehe
05:10:18argonelnickv111: i suppose it could have come loose, but could have just been that it wasn't a very firm connection. never had one of those apart
05:10:33nickv111argonel: Come to think of it, when I shook the iPod, I heard rattling inside
05:10:43argonelyou... shook the ipod?
05:10:55nickv111argonel: Very, very lightly
05:11:18argoneli tend to avoid shaking things that have spinning parts
05:11:45nickv111argonel: The thing is meant to be run with, and beaten up
05:11:54argoneli know that modern mini drives are tough, but you can still crash a head or tear the spindle bearings out of it
05:12:15argonelnickv111: meant? where did you gather that it was meant to be beaten up?
05:12:23nickv111argonel: I lightly shook it.
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05:12:52argonelnickv111: anyway, i doubt you might have hurt it in such a brief episode :)
05:12:55nickv111argonel: People take them for jogs
05:13:07nickv111argonel: I just tried to see if anything was loose
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05:13:15argonelnickv111: yes, and people kill them by doing that :)
05:13:38nickv111Well, the thing's probably not going to work anymore
05:13:58argonelthe old ones were tougher, but i wouldn't recommend jogging with your 80gb unless you can make sure it doesn't move much
05:14:52argonelnickv111: its worth trying to fix it.. "reseating" the harddrive is a time-honoured quick fix
05:15:06nickv111I don't know how to place the hard drive
05:15:14sidHow can I generate the itunes db so when this rockbox plugs into a windows machine with itunes it will work and all?
05:15:18argonelnickv111: doesn't that guide show it?
05:16:00argonelyeah, page 8
05:16:41argonelsid: maybe sync with amarok or something?
05:16:56nickv111argonel: The thing doesn't show up on any computers
05:17:01nickv111argonel: Oh, thought you were talking to me
05:17:18nickv111argonel: Anyway, the hard drive isn't connected to anything
05:17:22nickv111argonel: So I don't know what to do
05:17:36argonelnickv111: does it have the cable attached?
05:17:51nickv111argonel: No. I don't even know what that cable is
05:18:29argonelwell, the photo on page 9 looks like it shows it
05:18:43argoneli dunno what the blue thing is
05:18:52nickv111It's what the hard disk is inside
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05:19:02nickv111If the copper thing is the cable, well, I do have it attached
05:19:34argoneloh, i guess the blue thing is the "shock protector"
05:19:59argonelso it looks like there is a socket on the pcb that should mate with the plug on the copper foil
05:20:12nickv111I think so
05:20:20nickv111But they have to touch just right
05:20:23argonelbut, its probably first easier to check out the buttons
05:20:34nickv111To check the buttons, I have to unscrew the logic board
05:20:45argonellooks like it, yup
05:21:06nickv111And my Torx wrench isn't here
05:21:17nickv111Erm, screwdriver
05:21:19argoneloh, t6. nice.
05:21:24nickv111Even if I did, I don't think that it would be small enough to fit
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05:21:42nickv111I have one so I could take apart an Xbox :-\
05:21:43argonelperhaps a small slot across 2 points will drive it?
05:21:44Alexincvideo with sound on the gigabeat?
05:22:44argonelman, t6 is tiny
05:23:02argonelsmallest i have is a t8
05:23:29Alexinci have 6 xboxs
05:23:33argonelnickv111: maybe it doesn't work because the hd was loose.. you could try reassembling and see if it starts working
05:23:34Alexincand i mod xboxs for cash
05:24:00nickv111Alexinc: Cool.
05:24:12nickv111Alexinc: I have two. One for Linux, one for XBMC/Games
05:24:21Alexincwith xbmc360?
05:24:25nickv111argonel: I don't know. It worked until I put Rockbox on it
05:24:28nickv111Alexinc: I don't know.
05:24:31Alexinci have 3 with xbmc360
05:24:38Alexinc2 with for selling
05:24:40Alexincand one for xboxlinux
05:27:09argonelnickv111: so if you don't have a t6, you might be able to grind down a slot screwdriver (or maybe even buy one small enough)
05:28:09nickv111Too much hassle
05:28:58argonellemme know if you want to be rid of it :)
05:29:19nickv111I'll probably just throw it away
05:29:21nickv111Want it?
05:29:35nickv111Well, not now
05:29:36nickv111Chess game
05:32:44sidHow do I exit chess?
05:34:15sidI'm playing chess, but how do I quit and get to music?
05:35:10hcshold select and menu
05:36:05hcsyou'll find that quite a few of the plugins are exited in that way
05:36:22hcsin some others flipping the hold switch or holding down select brings up a menu
05:37:08hcsgood night
05:37:13sidpeace hcs
05:37:14sidthanks for the help
05:37:19sidHow do I play music? heh
05:37:35hcsjust select the files in the directory browser
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05:40:29sidHow can I go to plugins(soduko) while listening to music
05:40:56hcsjust press menu and browse plugins
05:45:51 Part Alexinc
05:47:48Mouser_XAnd I thought he was in bed...
05:48:16 Join perldiver [0] (
05:48:27***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
05:48:56Mouser_XSo, I have a 4GB DVD image. Does anyone care to guess how big the header of that file might be?
05:49:07Mouser_XI have no idea, which is why I ask.
05:50:23 Part debauched_sloth
05:51:25sidHow do I turn it off? heh
05:51:42Mouser_XHow do you turn off Rockbox, or stop the music?
05:51:42hcshold play
05:52:00hcsa short hold is "stop", a somewhat longer hold is "shut down"
05:52:12Mouser_XI was right, he wasn't in bed...
05:52:24hcsyep, but I mean to be shortly
05:52:35Mouser_XI figured as much.
05:53:04Mouser_XHCS: Roughly how much should I upload?
05:53:45hcsI really have no idea, 10 MB?
05:53:59hcsgetting a few files in the beginning is important, too (and this is offtopic for #rockbox)
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06:00:22sidWhat is speech support?
06:00:38 Join idnar [0] (n=mithrand@unaffiliated/idnar)
06:01:27hesperauxsid, i think it's voice recognitionness
06:01:36hesperauxeither that or the machine reads text
06:01:41sidvoice recognition? I don't have a mic though
06:01:44sidahh, tts
06:01:51hesperauxprolly that then yep
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06:18:35EspeonEefiI'm trying to do a bit of digging with the 80 GB 5.5 gen iPod, but I can't access the original 5.5 gen development thread on the forum.
06:18:40sidHow do I exit the text editor?
06:19:01EspeonEefi is linked to from the new 80 GB-specific thread
06:19:37EspeonEefiHowever, the forum gives me the message "The topic or board you are looking for appears to be either missing or off limits to you."
06:19:42sidit seems to have frozen, and I can't exit the text editor
06:21:50sidIt's frozen on the "cut" menu line, and I can't get it off.
06:25:23sidhmm, I think I broke the Power Up! portable audio system already
06:25:34sidand my iPod won't get out of text editor mode
06:26:00Mouser_Xsid: On the positive side, I'll be in the same boat as you are, once I get an iPod.
06:26:10Mouser_XPositive, in that you won't be alone.
06:26:17sidFor the speakers or the iPod?
06:26:27Mouser_XiPod running Rockbox.
06:26:37Mouser_XYou said you couldn't exit the text editor.
06:26:46sidThat usb thing that sticks into the ipod seems to have broken on the speaker system
06:26:52Mouser_XThere's a good chance I'll get myself stuck somewhere as well...
06:26:53sidit just pushes down into the speakers when I push on it.
06:27:04Mouser_XOh, that stinks.
06:27:17sidI'll have to crack it open and guerilla glue it
06:27:33Mouser_XWouldn't be first for around here...
06:27:45Mouser_XCouches, computers, whatever.
06:28:03Mouser_XIt's all fixable with Duct tape, glue, patience, or any combination of the above.
06:28:11 Quit ender` (" Programming is like sex becuse: 6. If you spend more time doing it than watching TV, people think you’re some kind of freak.")
06:28:26Mouser_XSometimes you get really creative, and use a bent up wire hanger...
06:32:35sidhmm, how do I shut this thing off heh
06:32:39sidit doesn't seem to respond
06:34:10Mouser_X<sid> How do I turn it off? heh
06:34:15Mouser_X<hcs> hold play
06:34:15Mouser_X<hcs> a short hold is "stop", a somewhat longer hold is "shut down"
06:34:30Mouser_XDoes that help?
06:34:32JdGordonsid menu+select doesnt exit the text editor?
06:34:32 Quit gromit` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
06:34:36Mouser_XOr, is it still not working?
06:35:16sidJdGordon: no
06:35:32JdGordonsid: what about left?
06:35:39sidJdGordon: nope
06:35:55JdGordonhmm.... umm
06:36:20sidIt's a 5g video ipod
06:36:43JdGordonhmm.... it shhuold exit with left...
06:36:52 Quit USteppin ()
06:36:55JdGordonwell if you hold menu+select for about 6s it wll force a reboot
06:37:05perldiveris there a way to change the text editor font size?
06:37:26sidawesome, thanks JdGordon
06:39:26 Quit Kitt0s (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
06:42:31sidThe only way to charge the batteries on this thing is via the usb from the bottom of it?
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06:46:53JdGordonyeah, rockbox hasnt got telepathic charging working...
06:49:33 Quit hcs ()
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06:51:53hotfootIs rockbox working on making the ipod nano 2nd generation compatable with rockbox?
06:53:15scorchenot at the moment at leadt
06:53:18hotfootah damn
06:53:44hotfooti cant do crap with my nano:(
07:05:25tehsmohmm, has anyone replaced the HD in an ipod with a CF card before?
07:05:37tehsmotheoretically it should be possible, CF is basically IDE
07:07:22 Quit secleinteer (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
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07:08:13tehsmoI know people have done it with the microdrive nanos, but that's trivial
07:08:58lostlogicwhy is the main thread on the core0 remaining runnable constantly?
07:15:22lostlogicnever mind, of course it's running when the update is updated.
07:16:10lostlogictehsmo: I don't know of anyone doing it −− sounds like a waste −− big case, little card
07:16:19tehsmohmm, perhaps
07:16:41tehsmoit's not that big though
07:20:05lostlogicI guess whopping battery life would be nice.
07:22:03tehsmothe only issue is, how do you get an adapter that'll work
07:22:40tehsmothey make cf-to-ide adapters, but only for the regular IDE connector
07:22:48tehsmonot whatever's used in teh pod
07:23:13tehsmoalthough ..hmm
07:23:28tehsmonow I have another idea, you could replace the HD in an old laptop with CF
07:23:43tehsmothat'd be an easier task to manage
07:26:12Mouser_XI know people that have done that.
07:26:37tehsmoit would work rather well, if you used linux and did some trickery to avoid writing to it too often
07:26:41Mouser_XSaves on battery life, and adds stability (you don't need to worry about the HDD getting knocked around, and beat up).
07:27:05Mouser_XI don't know what OS they used though...
07:34:23 Part DanManners
07:36:38 Join sarixe [0] (
07:37:12sarixehello, how do i take a screenshot of rockbox's WPS? i have a theme i would like to submit.
07:38:10sarixeanyone here?
07:41:32 Join BiptoN [0] (
07:41:39scorcheit says how in the manual
07:41:43sarixeah, thanks
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07:50:18sidHow do I get to a playlist? for playing music
07:50:51JdGordonhold select or menu.. one of them will get you t a menu with playlist options in it
07:54:50sidJdGordon: How do you view by album/artists etc?
07:55:00JdGordonin he playlist viewer? you cant
07:55:58BiptoNdoes anyone know if if using gcc optimazations -O1 -O2 -O3 would be beneficial to an ipod build or be too bloated
07:56:13sidJdGordon: If not in the playlist viewer, where can I view by album/artists etc?
07:56:32JdGordonin the database view you can
08:06:27sidJdGordon: How do I get to that?
08:06:53JdGordonhold menu, then when the wuickscreen comes up press play untill it shows id3 browser
08:06:57JdGordonall this is in the manual.....
08:07:25daurnimatorhey JdGordon
08:09:26JdGordonnot much
08:09:46JdGordonworkiong through some of the easier bug reports, coz im boooored and its too cold to go out :p
08:10:05 Part zzap
08:11:40sidJdGordon: yea, I read the manual. I still can't figure out how to get to viewing artists/albums
08:11:56daurnimatori was gonna see that terrible looking ben stiller movie tonight :S
08:12:05 Quit GodEater (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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08:12:12JdGordonthat movie looks great :D
08:12:21sidI hold menu for a second and a half or so, and I see left(shuffle off), right(repeat all), and bottom show files ID3 files
08:12:23 Join ChRiIiS [0] (
08:12:52ChRiIiShey all i have a problem playin videos on my iriver with rock box installed
08:13:17ChRiIiSi tried to play msg preview video provided by the site and get this error
08:13:46ChRiIiScant open viewr ect mpgplayer
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08:19:02sidI can't view by album/artists, heh. :(
08:19:25sidWhen I click on album or artists, it tells me database not ready.
08:20:31 Quit ChRiIiS ()
08:23:15*JdGordon hopes he doesnt break any builds... 6 commits without a single waring is too good to hope for :p
08:26:07JdGordonanyone know a bug which they rekon is easy to fix? /me is on a roll ::p
08:27:50daurnimatorwavpack hybrid!
08:28:08JdGordonna, that takes understanding and learning and stuff
08:28:38daurnimatorlack of player in daurnimator's possesion
08:31:23JdGordonwoot.. 8 commits without breaking anything!
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09:22:46hotfootcould i put music videos on a nano?
09:23:11scorcheyou can put anything you want on a nano
09:24:29hotfootok well how do i get music videos on it? I have one (purchased it) but i cant figure out how to get it on to my ipod
09:25:18 Join jba [0] (
09:25:29scorchejust put it on like you would anything else
09:27:40hotfootlol thats what im trying i cant drag it into my music video playlist on my ipod
09:27:52hotfootbut its in my music video playlist on my computer
09:28:21scorchedo you have rockbox on your device?
09:28:45hotfooti have a nano 2G
09:28:48scorchethen why are you here?
09:29:11hotfootoh lol because i asked a question before about rockbox
09:29:23scorchebut that question is not about rockbox
09:34:53daurnimatorneither are most things i asak
09:35:11scorchethen you shouldnt ask them
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09:48:34***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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10:32:38*JdGordon finally finished fixing 21gb of audio tags!
10:34:04 Join r1d5g7 [0] (i=474b636e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
10:36:33r1d5g7dos roxbox work with the sansa c250
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10:38:49JdGordonare there any rsync gurus here?
10:39:47scorchedoes this make me one?
10:40:09JdGordonmeany :p
10:40:16JdGordonna, i need more help han just man
10:40:29scorchewell, we are all men here
10:41:10JdGordoni want to sync every folder under /blaa except certain ones.. and i want to script it...
10:42:04scorcheim sure that option is somewhere in that page...
10:42:35JdGordonthere is an option to exclude certain files.. but i want to be able to tell it to not sync entire folder trees
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10:48:27 Quit Mouser_X3 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
10:54:04webguest68is moving those trees out of the hierarchy you're rsync-ing cheating ? :)
10:54:27 Nick webguest68 is now known as GodEater_Web (i=c2cbc95c@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
10:58:22GodEater_Webthe man page seems to indicate the exclude option can be a pattern, not just a filename - so you should be able to supply something like dir-to-exclude/*
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10:59:11GodEater_Webor just end the pattern with the "/" - and it should exclude the whole directory and it's content
10:59:54JdGordonbut i dont actually know all the folders i want to skip now...
11:00:14JdGordonthe problem is I have 21gb of music and only 20gb of room on the DAP...
11:00:25JdGordonso when i do a sync i dont want certain flders copied
11:00:54GodEater_Webso how are you going to work out which folders to skip ?
11:02:22JdGordoneither make a list, or put a .keep file in the root of any folders i don want copied
11:02:27JdGordonunless there is a better way?
11:03:27 Quit Lynx_ (" reboot")
11:05:20GodEater_Webwell it depends on your criteria, I was wondering if you were going to try doing it based on last time accessed / updated, or size of the tree of something even more fancy
11:08:13JdGordonmaybe my perl doesnt suck as much as i thought :p
11:10:20GodEater_Webheh - I only ever find something to do with perl every 6 months or so - so it generally sucks a lot until I've applied a liberal amount of mental WD-40 - and then it all seizes up again until next time
11:11:25GodEater_Webwhich is a crumby thing to have happen when you go for a job interview and they spring a surprise perl question on you - which you look at, and realise you have NO clue what's going on
11:13:22GodEater_Webthough in hindsight, I'm glad I didn't get that job - those guys were insane. Their servers didn't know what they were until they'd powered up, and rsync'd their disks with a master server somewhere which handed out images of different roles (database server, webserver, app server) based on some weird rule set. Then the freshly booted server would rebuild it's filesystem, and fire up in whatever mode it had
11:13:50GodEater_Webvery fancy - but hardly robust.
11:15:17 Join jba [0] (
11:15:49*GodEater_Web wouldn't want to be there the day that system goes tits up
11:15:59SlasheriGodEater_Web: that is very common when there are something like one hundred severs to maintain or more. Installation is fully automated over network, only initially the need to turn on the system and press a key to initialize a network install (after install scripts and images are configured of course)
11:16:45GodEater_WebSlasheri - where I work now we have *thousands* of servers - as we don't do that or anything like it
11:17:05 Join hcs [0] (n=hcs@rockbox/contributor/hcs)
11:17:07Slasherihehe :D
11:17:29Slasherithere is only about 100 servers in the machine room
11:18:22GodEater_Webheh - we have about 500 in the machine room in this building, and about another 1500 over the road from me
11:18:28Slasherinice :D
11:18:31GodEater_Webplus another 2000 or so down in docklands
11:18:53JdGordonGodEater_Web: your a melbournite?
11:20:06JdGordondocklands is a more common name for the area thsan I thought then :p
11:20:27GodEater_Webwell I'm guessing it's used wherever there used to be docks ? :)
11:20:31 Quit garian ("hey, bye")
11:20:46JdGordonwill this replace all spaces with \<space> ? s/ /\\ /g ?
11:21:17jeffbwhat does \<space> mean
11:21:22jeffbis that a string
11:21:25hcsyou might need to escape the space, what're you feeding this to?
11:21:33JdGordona \ followed by a space
11:21:41GodEater_Webdo you mean literally the characters "<space>" or do you mean the space character ?
11:21:45jeffbs/\s/\\ /g
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11:22:02jeffbperl ownz
11:22:04GodEater_Webjeffb: that looks good to me :)
11:22:11*JdGordon realises he can just enclose the whole thing in "" and not worry about it :p
11:22:31jeffbGodEater_Web, cool :) My regexp knowledge is a bit rusty with all this C code I'm doing.
11:22:31hcsjeffb: doesn't that convert characters other than just the space?
11:23:15jeffbbut I assume you meant tabs as space too
11:23:33bun-bunhi, i had something weird happen earlier today on my iriver h340
11:24:03bun-buni navigated to a directory and played a song, but the player started playing another song from another directory
11:24:04 Nick myzar is now known as myzar|away (n=myzar@
11:24:22bun-buni double checked to make sure i was in the right place and i was... has this happened to anyone else?
11:24:25jeffb\s is equal to [:space:] in unix regular expressions AFAIK.
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11:25:05GodEater_Webjeffb: how's the ARM reverse engineering going on the ipod ?
11:25:19GodEater_Webyou gone bald from pulling your hair out yet? :)
11:25:20jeffbGodEater_Web, very slow
11:25:25jeffbheh not yet
11:25:35GodEater_Webthat's a plus then :)
11:25:39jeffbI got the 80gb to boot a full linux kernel using a romfs image at the end of the payload
11:25:49GodEater_Webthat's handy
11:25:51jeffbhad to patch the hell out of the kernel just to do that
11:25:54GodEater_Webstill no disk access though ?
11:26:00jeffbI need the flash image
11:26:08jeffbuntil I get that, I'm in the dark
11:26:30GodEater_Weband I'm assuming you're not keen to dump it to the ipod's screen?
11:26:41jeffbI can dump it to the screen
11:26:49jeffbbut it's too much data entry
11:26:55GodEater_Webdigital camera ?
11:27:23jeffbI spose I could do that
11:27:27jeffband run OCR software on it?
11:27:35GodEater_Webworth a try
11:27:35jeffbI could write a graphics parser
11:27:50jeffbthat would require each snapshot to be the same heh
11:27:51hcsthrow in some ecc and you're good to go...
11:28:13jeffbwell I can get a full kernel booted now so I'm gonna try out the serial port
11:28:22GodEater_Webeven better
11:28:26jeffblinux says it found a 8250 serial controller
11:28:55jeffbI'm gonna order a serial cable in a few mins
11:29:24GodEater_Webcould you send over the kernel and bootloader you're using to me ?
11:29:30GodEater_WebI'd be keen to try this too :)
11:30:03jeffbsend me your email
11:30:08GodEater_Webjust did in a PM
11:30:15jeffbdidn't get it
11:30:24GodEater_Weber - weird
11:30:27jeffbthink you gotta be registered
11:30:32GodEater_Weband you're not ?
11:30:46jeffbnope I'm registered
11:30:47GodEater_Webme too - so you should have got it
11:30:53GodEater_Weboh hang on
11:31:03GodEater_WebI'm using the wrong nick today *blush*
11:31:07 Nick GodEater_Web is now known as GodEater (i=c2cbc95c@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
11:31:34GodEaterhow about that time ?
11:32:13jeffbbrb girlfriend is buggin
11:32:33JdGordondoesnt chomp remove the \n from a string?
11:33:06JdGordonhmm.. was doing it wrong... dw
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11:33:39jeffbI love the map { } keyword
11:33:41jeffbin perl
11:34:56jeffbI guess I'm being dragged to get coffee by the g/f... be back in a few
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11:43:00JdGordonw00t! my amazing sync script is finished...
11:43:13JdGordonnow to test it
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12:06:11GodEaterso - did everyone have a nice xmas? :-)
12:06:36JdGordonno, it was bloody freezing... its supposed t b summer here!
12:07:11GodEaterI expect it was freezing here - but I've no idea - I never went outside :)
12:08:44jbagigabeat guys got sound, so yeah we had a god christmas
12:11:37JdGordonI should be able to transfer alot faster than 1MB/s to my h300 yeah?
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12:52:20webguest81Hi, is anyone in here familiar with the development of porting Rockbox to the Sandisk Sansa e200 series?
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12:53:36GodEaterhas anyone here bothered pre-ordering Vista at all ?
12:54:34Slasherino windows, no vista
12:54:36JdGordonwebguest81: the usuals arent in.. but whatcha need?
12:54:50Slasheriif you really need windows, just install xp
12:54:56*JdGordon seconds Slasheri
12:55:09*GodEater has lost his XP install disc
12:55:12JdGordonI actually switched in preperation for vista
12:55:18GodEaterso was going to go with the new version
12:55:37GodEaterbut the pricing difference between getting it via Amazon in the UK , and Amazon in the US are ridiculous
12:55:41Slasheriyou should be prepared it will be buggy
12:55:44GodEaterwe're being charged nearly DOUBLE in the UK
12:55:54Slasheriand less supported than currently working xp
12:55:57GodEaterI already played with both Betas
12:56:05GodEaterseemed good enough to me
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12:56:39webguest81JdGordon: I was a little curious... I haven't developed actual firmware before, but has some programming and hardware interfacing experience. Thought, if possible, I would give a hand in development.
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12:57:03JdGordonhelp is always welcome... grab the source from cvs and start hacking
12:58:08webguest81Yeah, just joined to see if anyone had a little general introduction and status for the sansa e200 series...
12:58:32JdGordonit boots, but no audio iirc
12:59:26webguest81saw that in the forum I think... I will grab the source, would be an interesting project :P
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13:09:16jeffbdamn just discovered my ramdisk is being overwritten by kernel pages
13:09:21jeffbhave to find a way to reserve it
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13:10:32leftrighthey Slasheri, have you got your H140 back ?
13:10:46Slasherileftright: yes, it's working great :)
13:11:01leftrightgreat, thought we'd lost you there :-)
13:11:07Slasherihehe :)
13:11:26Slasherii just have been too busy to commit anything recently..
13:11:51leftrightuhuh, work..... i'm off at the moment, lazing around
13:12:05jeffbthat means I'm gonna have to compile the romdisk into the kernel everytime it's changed :/
13:12:39GodEaterjeffb: don't forget you were going to mail me your kernel and bootloader ?
13:12:43jeffboh yeah
13:12:51GodEaterhehe - np :)
13:12:57jeffbI think I just broke it :/
13:13:02jeffbbut I'll send anyway
13:13:13GodEaterwell I can wait till you've mended it ?
13:13:47jeffbit boots but when something gets malloc()'ed it overwrites the rom area lol
13:13:54GodEaternot good =/
13:13:55jeffband b00m... eventual crash
13:14:13jeffbso now I have to make sure to reserve the memory region in arch/armnommu/setup.c
13:14:50leftrightscorche: pingggg
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13:21:23FabbariGreetings earthlings! :)
13:24:25GodEaterjeffb: Did you ever get around to making that post on the forums requesting a 5.5G 30GB Flash dump ?
13:25:02jeffbI probably should eventually
13:25:04FabbariI was reading about the probable lockstepping or memory bottleneck on the iPod usage of the COP. Are there any news on the topic?
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13:26:20GodEaterwonder if we should add a debug menu feature for doing that on iPod builds, to make it easy in future releases ?
13:26:58GodEaterI might as well ask empty air that question though - all the core devs appear to be doing proper xmasy things today :)
13:27:06GodEaterlike sleeping and eating
13:27:34 Join Mouser_X [0] ( there are human beings among devs! :)
13:28:19jeffbGodEater, yeah
13:29:06jeffbGodEater, I assume you know how to dump the flash rom? It's a simple remap to 0x20000000 at startup and then you can just use simple fwrite() from there.
13:29:18jeffbI have assembler source if you need it
13:30:01jeffbI started on a patch for rockbox, but haven't finished it
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13:31:44GodEaterjeffb: linuxstb didn't mention that remapping was necessary - but I'm no expert in either direction
13:32:04jeffbhrm interesting
13:32:39GodEaterlet me hunt through the irc logs from the last few days - see if I can find where he said it
13:32:39jeffbnot sure how rockbox boots yet... so I will have to see
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13:33:37GodEater<linuxstb> It's not that hard. Just something like write(fd,0,512*1024*1024); will dump the flash to a file. You then need to link it into the bootloader (e.g. convert it into a C char array), and then do a byte-by-byte comparison.
13:33:55GodEaterthere you go - he said it a couple of days ago
13:34:09GodEaterwe still need to find someone who's got a 30G willing to do it though
13:34:37GodEatermaybe we should add a big flashing message into the next few daily builds - so when they put it on their iPods they get a nice "Please consider giving us a dump of your flash rom" :)
13:34:51jeffbthat would be cool
13:34:55GodEatersince none of them appear to come here or to the forums anymore :)
13:35:22linuxstbMaybe Slasheri can help...
13:35:36GodEaterhe has a 30GB
13:35:42linuxstbYes, 30GB 5.5g
13:35:45Slasherihmm, yep
13:36:03GodEaterthat would be very nice of him if he would :)
13:36:14Slasherilinuxstb: do you already have some code to do the flash dumping?
13:36:15jeffbupon boot of the ipod the flashrom is at 0x0... I assume rockbox leaves it at 0x0?
13:36:28jeffblinux gets remapped to 0x0 in setup.S
13:36:36jeffbso that's why you have to remap it to 0x200000000
13:36:38*GodEater looks blanky in linuxstb's direction
13:37:05linuxstbSlasheri: Just fd=open("/flash.bin",O_CREAT|O_RDONLY) ; write(fd,0,1024*1024) ; close(fd); (in the bootloader, after the disk has been mounted).
13:37:20linuxstbSorry, O_WRONLY...
13:37:22jeffbwow that is simple
13:37:29linuxstbjeffb: Yes...
13:37:29GodEaterwas going to say :)
13:37:37Slasherilinuxstb: hehe, i will do that once i get home :)
13:37:37GodEaterRDONLY would have been a novel approach :)
13:37:38*linuxstb wonders why jeffb is making life hard and using the IPL kernel...
13:37:40jeffbdoing that in linux is a major pain
13:37:46Slasherilinuxstb: hmm, it wont work from rockbox?
13:37:59jeffblinuxstb, I do'nt know why either
13:38:01linuxstbNo, we remap RAM to 0x0 (over the top of the flash).
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13:38:20jeffblinuxstb, so obviously you'd have to dump it before you remap the ram
13:38:24GodEaterlinuxstb: he says he has access to the serial port from the iPL kernel - which might be a way to get the flashrom dumped ?
13:38:33linuxstbWe could remap flash to somewhere else, but there's no point. It also feels safer to leave the flash inaccessible.
13:39:06jeffbonce I have the flashrom of the 30gb I can compare it to the 80gb versoin
13:39:21linuxstbjeffb: We don't remap RAM in the bootloader, so it's not a problem. But the Rockbox bootloader is a stripped-down version of Rockbox itself, so it has nice things like full write access to the disk.
13:40:14jeffbI guess I'm messing with linux mostly because I already know it
13:40:16jeffbI've written several linux drivers in the past
13:40:17GodEatermakes sense to me
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13:42:11GodEateronce (assuming he can) jeffb makes it work on linux, it won't be too tough to get it working in rockbox
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13:42:49GodEaterslasheri, you have to wait till you get home because you've not got your iPod with you ?
13:43:14SlasheriGodEater: correct, i have only the iriver with me :)
13:43:54Slasheriabout 4 hours and i will be home
13:44:35linuxstbjeffb: Is the flash 1MB or 512KB? I forget...
13:44:50jeffbon the nano I've found the flash image is 512kb
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13:45:03jeffbbut on the video it's 1mb
13:45:32jeffbthe flash chip capacity is 1mb
13:45:51linuxstbThe size of the aupd image in the firmware partition should tell us.
13:46:06jeffbyup it's 1MB in the image
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13:47:18GodEateris the AUPD image encrypted ?
13:47:45GodEaterdamn you apple!
13:48:16GodEaterremind me what else they encrypted on the new Nano ?
13:48:30jeffbthe nano 2g?
13:48:36linuxstbThe main firmware as well.
13:48:42***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
13:48:47jeffbthe rsrc file isn't encrypted
13:49:03Cazovthat is just a clever ploy to make you think it is unencrypted...
13:49:05linuxstbOn the other ipods, the main firmware is unencrypted, so it's easy to add and run our own code.
13:49:19jeffbCazov, very good point heh
13:49:41GodEaterit seems like a sort of waste of time encrypting the AUPD image on the old iPods - when it was so easy (originally) to get at it's content afterwards
13:49:50jeffblinuxstb, yeah the checksum routine on the other ipods is quite funny
13:50:16GodEaterdid anybody ever try reverse engineering the encryption ?
13:50:24*GodEater supposes they never bothered
13:51:00*cd_rom is thinking of joh ( the guy who crack apple music protected format)
13:51:32GodEaterdo you mean "DVD Jon" ?
13:51:54GodEaterdidn't think he did crack it - I thought he just found a way of stopping it being applied in the first place
13:52:02jeffbI've started on the task GodEater ... I've disassembled the nano flashrom
13:52:02GodEatercourse, I could be wrong
13:52:12cd_romhe cracked it again and now he plans to patent it!
13:52:21GodEaterjeffb, wow - you don't mind biting off huge chunks of work do you ? :)
13:52:40jeffbstuff to work on during slow periods at work
13:52:53GodEaterheh - that's how I got started too - and HELL is it slow today
13:53:10jeffbI'm going back to school soon and only staying at my job for monetary reasons
13:53:44jeffbGonna do a graduate degree in ECE
13:53:54CazovI'm doing that right now
13:54:00jeffbhow you like it
13:54:09Cazoveh...undergrad was a lot easier
13:54:10GodEaterlord I couldn't bear the thought of going back to college
13:54:27jeffbI'm excited abougt it
13:54:38Cazovjust finished my first quarter in the grad program though so I don't want to make any lasting decisions about the quality yet
13:54:46Cazovwhere are you thinking of applying?
13:55:51jeffbMany places actually... UCB, Georgia Tech, and maybe even MIT.
13:56:05Cazovah, good schools
13:56:05jeffbMIT is probably not realistic for me
13:56:08GodEaterah shame
13:56:13jeffbjust too hard
13:56:19CazovMIT is too hardcore :p
13:56:37CazovI didn't even bother applying because it'd be too much work, same with Stanford
13:56:45jeffbI got good marks in undergrad for a dual EE and CE degree
13:56:55jeffbbut that still won't be enough
13:56:57Cazovoh, dual degree looks good
13:57:32jeffbI'm mainly going back so that I can get jobs with more design influence
13:58:00jeffbYou get respect with the graduate degree
13:58:04jeffbat least at some companies
13:58:24Cazovyeah, just make sure to check out the course offerings before you make many decisions (if you're just going for coursework) since I know here at UW we don't really have much in the way of embedded systems/system design at the graduate level
13:58:57jeffbyeah I haven't even figured out what my emphasis will be yet
13:59:08Cazovdon't go controls, it sucks :p
13:59:19jeffbI'm thinking embedded systems with some DSP and possibly RF
13:59:28jeffbRF is crazy though
13:59:29Cazovthat will make you pretty employable
13:59:38Cazovgood RF engineers are worth a lot of money
13:59:47GodEaterRF ?
13:59:58jeffbI want to know the embedded and RF stuff very well if possible...
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14:00:44jeffbCazov, what is your emphasis?
14:00:56Cazovinitially control theory but yeah...I'm not liking it much
14:01:04Cazovso I'm going to go with embedded I think..more fun
14:01:37Cazovprobably grab some intro/DSP stuff and other things and bill myself as a generalist and try to grab a spot at some small tech company
14:01:50jeffbwhere is UW?
14:02:06Cazovso there are a lot of places on the other side of the lake (i.e. Redmond)
14:02:20jeffbthe market for engineers is very good right now so it's easier to get into good school
14:03:03Cazovdoesn't surprise me'
14:03:21Cazova lot of my friends went and got real jobs and are doing quite well for themselves
14:03:39jeffbhaving the graduate degree in tihs field can really help you
14:03:44jeffbat my current job I can't get promoted without it
14:04:02jeffbso I get to do all the grunt work
14:04:26Cazovyeah, one of the big reasons I continued on was so I would have better options
14:04:34jeffbgood choice imo
14:04:51 Quit cd_rom (" HydraIRC -> <- State of the art IRC")
14:05:26jeffbanother benefit is you'll be able to get jobs outside the US if you want to...
14:05:36Cazovoh, that may be interesting
14:05:53Cazovprobably safer too
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14:09:52jeffblinuxstb, the length of the encrypted flashrom image in the nano firmware is only 545792 bytes, but in the ipod video image it's 1048576 bytes. So I guess just always dump 1mb
14:10:47GodEatertime for some lunch - bbl
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15:15:01GodEaterthe iPod videos (all generations) all use the PP5022 right ?
15:16:06 Join Llorean [0] (
15:16:31LloreanResults are in, and it looks like the kernel_on_cop_6.diff does increase battery life.
15:16:56GodEaternot by much thought by the sounds of it :)
15:18:23LloreanIt wouldn't be expected to be terribly much.
15:19:04GodEaterwell any difference is good - it's movement in the right direction - I can't see any reasons why people wouldn't welcome it
15:19:17GodEaterwhat is the difference you've measured ?
15:20:25LloreanWell, it took my nano 12 minutes longer to reach 10% from 90%
15:20:33LloreanThough the percentages aren't terribly real anyway
15:20:47LloreanSo, let's say, to go from 4.08v to 3.65v
15:23:45LloreanConsidering that was ~ a 3:30 minute time period (give or take the variation that adds the 12 minutes) its actually non-trivial percentage, though it's still a small amount of time.
15:24:01LloreanThe total runtimes varied by about 30 minutes, on a total time of just about 6 hoursish
15:24:35GodEaterthat's not bad at all then
15:25:06LloreanIt's enough to say "the patch is having a noticeable affect" and also "but this isn't likely to be the fix for our battery life problems" :)
15:25:40GodEaterthat was supposed to say "heh"
15:26:48LloreanThere's also the fact that my playlist was fairly high in high-bitrate MP3 and Q6 (or was it 7) Ogg/Vorbis, which is why the life is moderately short
15:27:14GodEaterheh - you people with the golden eardrums :)
15:27:35GodEaterI'm so glad I'm challenged in that department - I can get away with much lower quality :)
15:27:39LloreanMine aren't golden by any degree.
15:28:04LloreanBut, they're bad enough that on quiet nights I find myself wandering through the apartment unplugging all of my electronics. :(
15:28:48LloreanBut I know for me, a lot of the difference between say, 256kbps mp3 and 192 is psychological.
15:29:00LloreanBut that doesn't mean my brain doesn't convince my ears it sounds better.
15:30:37GodEaterI feel for you - my brain is easily cajoled into doing what it's damn well told, even if that's enjoying MP3s at a maximum of 192Kbps
15:31:25LloreanOh, I imagine I can convince my brain if I wanted to.
15:31:46LloreanBut why bother. If you can getter better soundquality than you're physically capable of hearing just by not believing that you can't, why not?
15:32:26LloreanI figure, as long as the placebo effect exists, I may as well profit from it.
15:33:14GodEaterheh - I prefer having more space on my iPod and the promise of slightly longer battery life I guess
15:34:51LloreanI have several days of music on even my 20gb H120. And that's with a lot of songs in FLAC just because I never bothered to transcode them for transfers. 's more than enough for me, in general, and I still have space free.
15:36:09LloreanAnyway, I'm just happy that the COP patch *appears* to be working
15:36:18GodEaterI nearly filled my H140 before the battery decided it had had enough and wanted to go on permanent vacation
15:36:20lostlogicLlorean: yay.
15:36:50GodEaterwhich is unfortunately why I had to buy the 80GB ipod to replace it with - the 30GB wasn't enough
15:37:12Lloreanlostlogic: Only an extra 12 minutes over a 3:30 or so period, but I'd say that's enough to call it a measurable difference
15:38:58lostlogic>5% yeah, it's not just noise.
15:39:19lostlogicbut as you said, it's not yet solving the major 50% drop in battery life on ipoops
15:39:40LloreanWell, I'm still betting that's relating to the USB controller, or some other little extra part of the System on a Chip junk that we haven't shut off properly
15:40:18LloreanI don't think everything's working quite right with this yet anyway.
15:40:47LloreanThe UI still gets way too sluggish if you enable too many audio features, and it really shouldn't affect UI speed at all if it's working right, correct?
15:41:40lostlogicLlorean: I think we're bumping up against DRAM bandwidth limitations (as amiconn suggested) now, which both cores are going to be competing for
15:42:36lostlogicwhich is why I want to find a way to pass the uncompressed audio data back from the codec in IRAM instead of DRAM and see where that gets me... sadly that's looking like a difficult proposition.
15:43:54GodEatergod the Apple installation/removal forum is depressing reading. The average IQ in the world looks to be absolutely plummeting
15:46:00Lloreanlostlogic: I was just kinda assuming the scheduler wasn't yet adapted to both cores, and was mucking up the works on the primary one when it didn't need to any more.
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15:46:22LloreanThis sluggishness didn't used to happen this way until the scheduler was introduced. Instead the audio would just skip.
15:47:07lostlogicLlorean: hmm, that's possible, I forgot htat not everyone turns off priority scheduling like I do :-D
15:47:45Lloreanlostlogic: Indeed, I didn't bother. I assume there's a define I can kill in the appropriate target config, perhaps?
15:48:09LloreanI'd like to try some things without it later, and see how performance changes.
15:48:27lostlogicyeah, just undefine HAVE_PRIORITY_SCHEDULING I think it's called
15:48:45***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
15:48:46lostlogicI prefer to have music skip and use the old fashioned simple round robbin scheduler
15:48:55LloreanBut it really does feel like the scheduler is what's gumming things up now.
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15:50:29LloreanOf course, I'm saying "feel" here in an entirely subjective sense. :)
15:51:18GodEateryou're using the force to debug rockbox now Llorean ? :)
15:52:11LloreanGodEater: It's worked in the past. :-P
15:52:24GodEaterglad to hear it
15:53:57Lloreanlostlogic: What file is that in, d'you remember?
15:55:12LloreanIt's not the target ones
15:55:30lostlogichah, so no, I don't remember :-D
15:55:55Lloreanlostlogic: Do I remove HAVE_SCHEDULER_BOOSTCTRL too?
15:57:45lostlogicthat's pretty much required on swcodec targets now
15:57:52LloreanAlso something I noticed
15:58:01lostlogics/pretty much//
15:58:03LloreanRight now, we do, basically, "If Portalplayer, then 2 cores, else 1 core"
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15:58:23webguest49does anyone know when roccbox will come out for the 2nd gen ipod nanos?
15:58:26LloreanShouldn't it be "If portalplayer, then 2 cores" and later "if numcores is undefined, 1 core" that way if future targets have two cores it's ready to deal with it?
15:58:30lostlogicwebguest49: no timeframes.
15:58:58Lloreanwebguest49: It's physically impossible to predict. I suggest perhaps a tarot reading.
15:59:13webguest49so no one knows like...1 month...a year?
15:59:30lostlogicLlorean: doesn't really matter until we have other targets with multiple cores (like the 2g nano perhaps) :-P
15:59:35Lloreanlostlogic: I like to plan ahead. :-p
15:59:37webguest49has anyone even started working on the new version for it yet?
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15:59:52Genre9mp3webguest49: no-one
15:59:54Lloreanwebguest49: Nobody has been able to crack the new encryption they put on their firmware, yet.
16:00:01lostlogicwebguest49: you could be the first :)
16:00:34webguest49im just 12....i would love to know how to crack firmware :D
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16:01:36LloreanWell, the encryption is just so that we can encrypt our own and have their bootloader recognize and load it for us.
16:01:49lostlogicwebguest49: well you actually use English better than most people in your age range, so I commend you. sadly that doesn't make 2g nano support come out any sooner ;)
16:02:02LloreanBut until that step is past, it's impossible to do any further real work
16:02:35SoapSeduction of core Apple employees is always an option.
16:03:05webguest49Since encryption is like a code...are they just trying to guess the a series of numbers?
16:03:09LloreanI tried that, but Jobs is remarkably clueless about actual hardware information. Apparently he's just a pretty face these days.
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16:03:44GodEaterSoap: I'm not sure that option is open to a 12 year old. Not without getting the apple employee sent to prison anyway.
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16:05:20webguest49On older ipod models...was there an encription code?
16:05:43LloreanWell, there was, but it only affected one of the parts, the one we don't need to mess with.
16:05:52lostlogicwebguest49: but some other players that rockbox support did have encrypted firmware.
16:06:27webguest49why would apple really want you to not be able to mess with the firmware?
16:06:37lostlogicusually firmware encryption is fairly simplistic, because the player hardware can't waste time decrpyting it, so it doesn't even necessarily have a key code, but could be a mathematical formula that is applied to the code.
16:06:42GodEaterwebguest49: cos they're mean
16:07:06Lloreanwebguest49: Because we cost Apple money.
16:07:14lostlogicLlorean: huh? how?
16:07:22Lloreanlostlogic: People who can't follow instructions
16:07:44LloreanThere's always a percentage of people who don't follow the instructions, assume they've messed up their iPod, and either force a replacement, or bother technical support.
16:07:52LloreanSo Apple ends up having to spend money on our stupid users.
16:08:07LloreanUsers whose warranties are voided anyway, but choose to lie to Apple's support people
16:08:08GodEatera fairly high percentage sadly
16:08:14lostlogichmm... I'd guess we drive just as much profit from additional sales.
16:08:27Lloreanlostlogic: But, Apple can selectively ignore those.
16:08:34webguest49BRB−−im gonna regiester.
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16:09:12lostlogicmy brain hurts. that was a polite and proper-english-using 12yo. :-\
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16:09:34ElfQrinAlright (webguest43) is back.
16:09:45Genre9mp349 you mean :P
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16:10:54lostlogicLlorean: how have people bricked apple players with rockbox? I thought it was near impossible.
16:11:10GodEaterlostlogic: they haven't
16:11:14GodEaterthey just assume they have
16:11:25lostlogicwow, people are dumber than I give them credit.
16:11:37GodEatersadly that's too true
16:12:28Lloreanlostlogic: For every few people that say "How do I fix this" there's at least one who sees the sad apple logo, can't get a USB connection, and goes into the store to pester someone. And every now and then they even come back and tell one of us about it
16:12:30ElfQrinWhat do you mean by bricked....broke?
16:12:44GodEatercan't you tell from the number of "OMG - I'VE JST BRIX0RED MY IPOD PLZ HELP ME NOW LOL!!!!" posts in the forums ?
16:12:59lostlogicGodEater: I avoid the forum almost like the plague
16:13:01lostlogicElfQrin: yeah
16:13:40GodEaterElfQrin: from my "insert your music player name here" is now as good as a brick.
16:14:15Lloreanlostlogic: Okay, without priority scheduling enable menus seem to run full speed, but with all the sound settings on, peakmeters or scrolling quickly in lists can still cause music to skip
16:14:36lostlogicLlorean: yeah, that's about what I get.
16:15:03LloreanBut it seems at least I get 5-band EQ, Dithering AND Crossfeed without skips if I don't press anything, in a menu.
16:15:21GodEaterI assume the scheduling is *extremely* rockbox specific and not hacked in from some other open source OS's scheduler ?
16:15:29lostlogicGodEater: yes
16:15:38lostlogicGodEater: it's cooperative multithreading (now on two cores)
16:16:10GodEateris that similar to how co-op multi-tasking used to work in Windows 3.x ?!?
16:16:13GodEateror am I completely off base ?
16:16:15Lloreanlostlogic: And this is a 320kbps MP3, so that's not bad at all, I think.
16:16:25lostlogicGodEater: sorta −− I think win3x still had some preemption
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16:16:49GodEaterI didn't think it did
16:16:54ElfQrinGot to to ya all later.
16:16:57lostlogicLlorean: cool, I'm definitely running with cop on as my normal now instead of only for testing.
16:16:59ElfQrinThanks for all the help
16:17:04*Llorean agrees
16:17:06lostlogicElfQrin: later, get hacking :)
16:17:11 Quit ElfQrin ("CGI:IRC")
16:17:21LloreanHonestly, with the fact that patch 6 increases battery life, assuming all targets build and/or boot, I think that stage of progress should be committed.
16:17:28GodEaterbut basically you're saying the threads hand off to each other when *they* feel like it, and not when the kernel does ?
16:17:44lostlogicGodEater: yep −− the kernel decides what order they run in
16:17:57lostlogicbut a thread that's being an asshat can hold onto the cpu for as long as it wants once it has it
16:18:39GodEateris there a reason for not using pre-emption beyond "we've not written it into the kernel yet" ?
16:18:40lostlogicLlorean: what's being considered for commit doesn't yet run the codec on the COP −− we're still worried about cach coherency issues with doing that, I think.
16:18:53lostlogicGodEater: preemption is very complex and has a ton of overhead.
16:19:05Lloreanlostlogic: What would those issues cause?
16:19:05lostlogicGodEater: rockbox will probabaly always use a cooperative model
16:19:29lostlogicLlorean: most likely incorrect samples playing, but possibly codec crashes during a rebuffer if the codec is catching up to the file buffer.
16:19:43*GodEater thinks about it some more and realises that makes a lot of sense
16:19:51lostlogicLlorean: but in truth, the core cache sizes are small enough that it's quite unlikley
16:19:56GodEaterbeen a LONG time since my last systems programming lecture =/
16:20:03Lloreanlostlogic: Committing it all would tell us very quickly whether that's a real problem. :-P
16:20:18lostlogichaha, a valid point
16:20:30lostlogicI defer to dan and barry who are more consistently around than me though.
16:21:23LloreanI think if the commit message were just something like "These changes have shown to improve battery life by ~5% on iPods, but may cause some stability issues, bug reports are welcome" people would be happy with it.
16:21:23lostlogicugh, I didn't realize until just now reading the wiki that the PP chips have DMA that we're not using −− that would probably be the right way to solve our memory bandwidth issues.
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16:21:40Lloreanlostlogic: Yeah, that's been a sore point in our PP progress.
16:21:52GodEaterwould probably solve our disk issues too
16:22:00lostlogicwe have disk issues?
16:22:07Llorean5.5G 80gb
16:22:07GodEateron the 80GB
16:22:17GodEaterwe can't make PIO mode work properly
16:22:20LloreanHis theory is that PIO is borked entirely for them.
16:22:26LloreanWhich, honestly, may be the case.
16:22:35GodEateryes - I've not got many subscribers to that idea
16:22:42GodEaterbut it's all I can think of
16:22:52LloreanWell, the problem with that theory is that it's a "theory by elimination"
16:23:17LloreanThere's no evidence at all for it other than the fact that we've got evidence against everything else we can try, and we can't try that yet. :-P
16:23:21GodEaterI was trying to work out earlier if the problem is with the disk or the PP chip itself
16:23:49GodEaterdoes anyone know if you can get ZIF convertors to try plugging the disk into a PC motherboard ?
16:24:05GodEaterif so then you could try running PIO commands to it from any OS you like
16:24:11GodEaterand see if they work
16:24:11LloreanYou can get enclosures on the cheap, I believe
16:24:20GodEaterand if they *don't*
16:24:23Lloreanthen it becomes a USB2.0 UMS device
16:24:26GodEaterthen we can complain to Toshiba :)
16:24:33GodEateroh really ?
16:24:49GodEaterthat wouldn't work then
16:25:05GodEaterit works fine as a UMS device it seems
16:25:46LloreanGodEater: Well, in the iPod though, it's Apple's Firmware handling all the USB. It's only a UMS device because the Apple firmware's sitting in there translating.
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16:25:59GodEaterah true
16:26:08LloreanIf the drive were the problem you'd probably know fairly quickly by popping it into an enclosure that handles it in a standard manner.
16:26:23youlianganybody having rockbox on sansae200 here?
16:26:47GodEaterthere'd still need to be some sort of controller in the enclosure though to translate USB->ATA
16:26:47Lloreanyouliang: It's still in fairly early development on the e200
16:26:57youliangi seem to have a -1 error when i install it
16:26:58LloreanGodEater: Yup.
16:27:00lostlogichmph, there's a FIQ on the COP now that's interesting.
16:27:00GodEaterI'd be happier if I could get raw ATA access to it
16:27:06Lloreanyouliang: That means you haven't extracted into the root
16:27:18LloreanGodEater: Ah, well I'm sure they make ATA adapters too
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16:27:59ElfQrinim back...
16:28:13sidOnce I go to artists/person/song, and the song do I get back to the menu with artists, or to albums?
16:28:35Lloreansid: Tap the select button.
16:29:44Lloreanlostlogic: Does your "that's interesting" mean you have an idea to put it to good use, or just a casual sort of noticing of it?
16:29:56*Llorean would usually judge such a thing by intonation.
16:30:00GodEaterand what's a FIQ anyway ? :)
16:30:31LloreanFast Interrupt something, right?
16:30:48lostlogicLlorean: well I don't know enough about it really, but I'm wondering if it'd be possible to move DSP and or voice mixing to the FIQ on one core so that it can run just a few samples ahead of the FIQ on the other core feeding the data to the DAC
16:30:53lostlogicLlorean: yeah
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16:38:36sidLlorean: When I tap select I see sound settings, playlist, playlist catalog, bookmarks, show id3 info, open with, pitch, graphical eq, browse eq presets
16:38:51sidLlorean: but I don't see "artists" or "albums" or anything like I first did when I booted the thing.
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16:39:07Lloreansid: Then you're not tapping select.
16:39:13Lloreansid: You have what sort of player?
16:39:33sid5g video
16:39:40sidahh, I was hitting it too hard
16:39:40sidI see
16:39:47LloreanThat's why I used the word "tap"
16:40:18Lloreanlostlogic: Woo! I got to close another ridiculous feature requests. This person wanted a "VLC Port" for Rockbox, as a solution to the whole video not playing concern.
16:40:31webguest58Llorean, i've placed the .rockbox folder into the root, but its stil displays error -1
16:40:43webguest58btw, the .rockbox folder is a hidden folder right?
16:40:53lostlogicLlorean: :-P
16:40:58Soapwebguest58: that is only half of the equation
16:40:59Lloreanwebguest58: I didn't say "place the .rockbox folder into the root", I said "extract into the root", you should also have a rockbox.e200 file in the root
16:41:18Lloreanlostlogic: I think there should be a reason for closing listed simply as "Hahaha... No."
16:41:48LloreanEvery now and then, a request just asks for such a closure
16:41:57webguest58hey..thanks man
16:41:59webguest58it works now..
16:42:07lostlogicLlorean: yeah, I've often wished for that at work as well
16:42:29webguest58i didnt put the rockbox.e200 just now
16:44:09webguest58Llorean, the doesnt come with any plugins like doom or whatsoever right?
16:44:56Soapwhy do you believe that?
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16:49:10 Join webguest58 [0] (i=dad05bfc@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
16:49:40webguest58sorry, dc.. my internet really suffers from the earthquake in taiwan, causes internet in malaysia to lagg..
16:50:07Lloreanwebguest58: All official, working plugins are included.
16:51:36webguest58my doom says missing wad
16:52:20LloreanYes, because while the doom plugin is included, you have to own a copy of the game and provide your own .wad, or use the shareware one.
16:52:25LloreanCheck out the PluginDoom page on the wiki
16:52:53webguest58can i reduce the lcd brightness ?
16:53:17LloreanI don't believe so, at this time.
16:53:57webguest58okay, do you seem to know how long can the battery last running rockbox?
16:54:08LloreanNobody's done a benchmark yet.
16:54:24LloreanAnd since music doesn't play, we don't have any standard basis for comparision.
16:54:52webguest58haha, yeah, I'll use it to play games! :)
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16:56:02webguest58err , Llorean, the backlight on this rockbox doesnt turn off right?
16:56:35webguest58anybody here knows whether the backlight on rockbox doesnt turn off? sansa e20
16:57:30tehsmohmm, is there a way to quit rockblox without shutting down?
16:58:18Febstehsmo: what player?
16:59:04tehsmoipod video
17:01:57tehsmoah, thanks
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17:07:35amiconnAnyone with an ipod G4 greyscale around?
17:07:50amiconn(and/or G3)
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17:40:48ElfQrinare there any rockbox developers here that would be willing to talk to me...a 12 year old?
17:42:22goffai'm sure they would if there were any here
17:42:44Furkleim curious what a 12 year old would like to know
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17:45:19SoapElfQrin: are your questions regarding the new Nano?
17:48:46***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
17:50:50maquisElfQrin: i'm not a dev, but go ahead and ask your question, and maybe someone can answer it
17:55:40cd_romone of my favour quote: "What is the sound of Perl? Is it not the sound of a wall that people have stopped banging their heads against?" from Larry Wall
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18:07:19Tramaoi pessoal
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18:08:08markunCapixaba: tudu bem?
18:08:23Capixabatudo bem
18:08:33markunah ok :)
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18:11:39Capixabaalguem do Brasil?
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18:20:38ElfQrinAre there any rockbox developers here that I could talk to?
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18:22:23tehsmoElfQrin: you already asked that, and I'm pretty sure there are some in here ..if you have a question just ask
18:23:11sarixehello, i have rockbox for iAudio X5. I noticed it has a scrobbler, and i was wondering if anyone knows how to make amaroK automatically submit these values
18:24:10sarixenot values... songs
18:24:53ElfQrinI was wondering how to find firmware on my 2nd gen ipod...and i ws going to try and find it and modify it
18:25:03ElfQrinhow did you all do it on previous ipod models
18:26:03Genre9mp3ElfQrin: You mean 2nd Gen Nano?
18:26:14 Quit Ribs (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
18:27:28Genre9mp3ElfQrin: To take an idea on what are the main obstacles on 2nd gen Nano read this thread:
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18:32:14Helatoo bad PaulPosition is not here now...
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18:33:09sarixeanyone know about the submitter?
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18:33:50markunGenre9mp3: rockbox now runs with audio on the Gigabeat!
18:33:58Soapsarixe: there is a page in the wiki about it.
18:34:13Genre9mp3markun: I've read about it... great news! :)
18:34:26 Join Criamos [0] (
18:34:38markunYes, now we 'only' have to merge it back to the rockbox cvs :)
18:35:17Genre9mp3is this a lot of work?
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18:36:53UnleetMy friends Ipod Photo won't turn on. The battery isn't dead. Anybody know what to hold or press to get it to work again?
18:37:11Genre9mp3btw... where's the "gentlemen..." mail? I think you owe us one! :P
18:37:46Helaanyone with iriver h10?
18:37:57FebsUnleet: patience.
18:37:59UnleetI have an H10.
18:38:01FurkleUnleet: try holding select and menu for 5 seconds
18:38:11UnleetOk Ty.
18:38:38HelaUnleet - do you have any problems with cpu usage (skiping songs etc.) when you enable EQ?
18:38:48Helain rockbox of course
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18:39:02UnleetI went from Ubuntu to Windows XP and it stopped turning on.
18:39:50UnleetIt turned on, but its giving the ipod icon now.
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18:40:03Helanow I wonder whats wrong with mine...
18:41:18UnleetHela you have an H10 correct?
18:41:25Unleet5,6, or 20gb?
18:41:42UnleetState your problem.
18:42:26Helaskips song, works superslow with equalizer turned on
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18:42:52UnleetIm on the 20gb and it works fine.
18:43:03UnleetPerhaps you should reinstall rockbox.?
18:43:40Helaand that sucks since without eq sound is not so good
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18:44:17UnleetI don't use the EQ but my sound is fine.
18:44:56Helatoo much sound in the background for me ;p
18:45:40UnleetI got some new $100 bose headphones for christmas. No bg noise at all. ;)
18:45:43Helakinda used to what I heard in zen micro
18:46:14Helai bought new ones today, but still could use eq
18:46:56UnleetMy only suggestion is to reinstall rockbox.
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18:48:36HelaI'll do that and see if anything changes
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18:57:45Soapit is a matter of too much CPU being consumed.
18:57:55Soaphow many bands of EQ are you using?
18:58:17Soapeach band of EQ consumes CPU. If you are using five, try three
18:58:35Soapif your WPS has peakmeters, change to a WPS without.
19:02:01Helai'm using patched rockbox from misticriver forum
19:02:25Soapthen that is where you need to go for support.
19:02:34Helawith custom wps, so maybe that the problem
19:03:00Soapthe problem is too much CPU consumption.
19:03:49Helai asked about the problem on their forum, maybe there is someother way to make this right
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19:05:15HelaI've just changed wps to the original one and this still happens
19:05:16Helaanyway, thanks
19:06:27Soapwhen you say the original you mean one with peak meters?
19:06:43SoapYou can make it right by not using all five bands of the EQ.
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19:16:28tehsmoyay, cross-compiler's working
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19:17:49markunGenre9mp3: I thought it wasn't much work, but my first attempt failed
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19:22:49Lars_GHi all.
19:22:53Lars_GThere is someone in rockbox that is very very smart...
19:23:09Lloreanmarkun: Why isn't the Gigabeat port part of the main CVS yet?
19:23:37markunLlorean: my first attempt to merge the trees resulted in a broken bootloader. I'll try again tonight.
19:24:10Lloreanmarkun: Okay. I'm just concerned because more people are starting to show up in the official forums and here in the channel, and there's no official files or anything.
19:24:26markunyes, I know. Sorry
19:24:50markunbut I think after all this was the fastest way. We had a lot of people committing stuff.
19:24:50LloreanOh, I'm not upset or anything. Just curious if there was something holding it back, or if it was just an issue of needing syncing.
19:24:57Lars_GAh yes it's lear
19:24:58Lars_Gbut he's not here, ah well
19:25:12markunjust syncing. audio and video play back great
19:25:13Lars_GLlorean: How's the svn migration comming up?
19:25:28 Quit Hela ()
19:25:30markunalways room for improvements of course
19:25:51LloreanLars_G: I have nothing to do with it. :) If I understand it'll mostly be "start tool, let tool run, see what breaks once it's done"
19:25:57Lloreanmarkun: Of course. :)
19:26:02pixelmacongrats, markun! :)
19:26:25Lars_Gany special reason you guys chose to use Alac for a demuxer?
19:26:32Slasherinow i am going to dump the rom on 5.5G
19:26:52Lars_GLlorean: Is there anyone here who shares Lear's knowledge of codecs?
19:27:15markunpixelma: thanks, with rockbox on it it's really a great player.
19:27:16LloreanLars_G: Most of the codec knowledge is actually rather distributed depending on who did which work on what.
19:27:31LloreanLars_G: For the MP4 container parsing, he's probably your best bet as far as I'm aware though.
19:27:43LloreanSlasheri: 80gb or 30gb?
19:27:51SlasheriLlorean: 30GB
19:28:03LloreanSlasheri: Ah, good. I seem to recall we have someone with an 80gb one looking to compare.
19:28:11Slasheriyep, i saw that too
19:28:17jeffbSlasheri, sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet
19:28:22Slasherijeffb :)
19:28:22jeffbwow that will be a big help to me
19:28:27Lars_GLlorean: Yes, the thing is, I have one m4b file that still fails to play (others from the same podcast do play) and instead of just sending him the file and saying "it no worky" i want to be productive and diagnose what's wrong, but I need a shove in the right direction at debugging demuxer and decoder
19:28:27markunLars_G: is there a problem with the demuxer?
19:28:50Lars_Gmarkun: What I just said, one file failing but I want to help and debug this myself. I just need a starter
19:28:58LloreanLars_G: Have you taken something like MP4dump to it and compared it with the ones that do work?
19:29:02Lars_Gfor example is there a guide on using a compiled sim? I've never used it correctly.
19:29:11Lars_GLlorean: No. see? that's a good start. thanks.
19:29:38jeffbSlasheri, what I will do then is compare it to the firmware image in the 80gb with a byte for byte compare.
19:29:48 Quit ElfQrin ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
19:29:58Slasherijeffb: nice, i will dcc it to you soon
19:30:16Soapjeffb is getting all the DCC love today.
19:30:26Lars_GAt least this is easier than trying to get the specs for m4a files...
19:30:41jeffbwhat is a m4a file?
19:30:53Lars_Gjeffb: Just another extension name for an mpeg4 file. same thing
19:31:32Lars_Gm4a m4b, m4v are all just chapter 14 Mpeg4 container files, named by Apple to differentiate contents. but format is the same.
19:31:40Lars_Gand m4p is the name they give DRMed Mpeg4 files.
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19:35:07bagawkjeffb: I have an 80gb iPod now also, ping me if you want something
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19:35:23jeffbbagawk, will do
19:35:30jeffbyou guys rock
19:36:49Slasherijeffb: but need to go now, back in 30min.
19:36:57jeffbsounds good
19:37:05jeffbI'll be here hacking away
19:37:10Slasherigreat :)
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19:39:13 Quit Genre9mp3 ("I don't suffer from Rockbox psychosis. I enjoy every minute of it.")
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19:50:56amiconndan_a: around?
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19:55:44tehsmohmm ..I compiled rockbox and put it on my ipod with the 'make zip' method, but it it can't load any plugins ("incompatible model") or play any media ("codec failure")
19:55:51tehsmoany ideas? is there more I need to compile than what's included in 'make'?
19:57:03Lars_Gsure you used the right build for your ipod's generation/model?
19:57:27tehsmoin retrospect, I have an idea though
19:57:56*tehsmo will try to unzip his compiled build on top of a daily build
19:57:59tehsmoshould get whatever I missed
19:59:02tehsmohmm. .nope, still get "incompatible model"
19:59:22tehsmomaybe I'll run the build process again
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19:59:53tehsmoI'll try a normal build instead of devel
20:02:10dan_aamiconn: I am briefly
20:02:46amiconndan_a: Did you run test_scanrate.rock on your G3?
20:02:56amiconnAnd if you did, what was the measured scanrate in Hz
20:03:04*amiconn doesn't remember, unfortunately
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20:05:07dan_aamiconn: I did, but I can't remember either, and I left my G3 behind when I came away (I'm on holiday for a week.) IIRC, it was similar to a G4, maybe slightly faster
20:05:28amiconnI'm not talking about test_fps
20:05:46amiconnI mean the internal lcd scanrate
20:06:04amiconn...and I don't remember anyone running it on a G4 greyscale
20:06:16dan_aSorry, I was getting confused. I didn't manage to get a value - I couldn't make it sync properly
20:06:17*amiconn wants to finally fix a fixme in the grayscale linb
20:06:43amiconnUh, hmm...
20:06:52tehsmoah, I was being stupid
20:06:55Slasherijeffb: got it :)
20:06:57tehsmoworking now. :)
20:06:59Slasherijeffb: i am going to send it now
20:07:01amiconnCould you try again when you have access to your G3?
20:07:03jeffbSlasheri, schweet
20:07:09dan_aamiconn: Will do
20:07:15GodEaterSlasheri, could you send it to me too please ?
20:07:33SlasheriGodEater: ok, on its way :)
20:07:55 Quit scorche (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
20:07:55jeffbDCC RECV connect attempt to Slasheri failed (err=Connection timed out).
20:08:12Slasherinope, dcc should work fine
20:08:22SlasheriGodEater: can you connect?
20:08:36GodEaterno same problem as jeffb
20:08:36Slasheriok, i will put it to web for a moment
20:09:19Slasheriplease tell me when you are done so i can remove it
20:10:00jeffbgonna compare to 80gb flash now
20:10:36GodEatergot it too
20:10:38GodEaterthanks Slasheri
20:10:42Slasherigreat :)
20:11:10 Join Caliban_ [0] (
20:11:23jeffbdefinately correct dump too... the vectors are at the front of the file
20:12:14GodEaterwhich is good news
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20:15:42 Quit FOAD_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
20:16:15 Quit DreamThief (Nick collision from services.)
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20:16:32GodEaterhow are you planning on doing the compare jeffb ? Have you got something which will convert that dump into a char array or something ?
20:16:45GodEatergimme :)
20:16:45jeffbjust loaded to ipod...
20:16:53GodEaterooh you're too fast :)
20:16:58Lars_GIs there a doc on using the sim?
20:17:41jeffbGodEater, it's called bin2h.c
20:17:46jeffblet me dcc it
20:18:26Lars_GThanks pixelma
20:19:01LloreanEither of you mind zipping up both of the files and giving me a copy to poke at? I'm more just curious than anything else.
20:20:07Lars_GHmmm audio is not handled but this should be good enoughç
20:20:08GodEaterthe dump and ?
20:20:09 Join scorche [0] (n=scorche@rockbox/administrator/scorche)
20:20:16LloreanGodEater: The two dumps.
20:20:25GodEaterwell there isn't a second dump
20:20:31GodEaterwe can't write it to disk remember ?
20:20:35LloreanOh, right.
20:20:40GodEaterwe're comparing them in memory
20:20:52LloreanSorry, a bit distracted.
20:20:58GodEaterhehe it's ok
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20:21:17amiconnGodEater: What about the idea of dumping via audio?
20:21:28GodEateramiconn, beyond my meagre abilities I'm afraid
20:21:49GodEaterif someone wants to try coding it up though - I'll happily run it and share the results
20:22:07jeffbdamn my dcc is hosed
20:22:09jeffbGodEater, gonna email it
20:22:27 Nick Everybody is now known as Everybody|away (
20:22:36GodEaterhmm - suspect mine will be too
20:22:46GodEaterhydra doesn't do uPnP I think
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20:23:13bagawkDCC is not a very good protocol
20:23:47 Part kynes
20:24:05GodEaterjeffb, no problem
20:24:50GodEaterthanks :)
20:24:55Lars_GAnyone got a list of keystrokes for iPod sims? or should I jsut read the source?
20:25:23LloreanThere should be a background image .bmp that shows them superimposed on a picture of the ipod
20:25:33jeffbdamn my ipod firmware didn' tload
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20:27:15GodEaterdoes it handle little/big endian issues jeffb ?
20:27:30jeffbit does the comparison at the byte level
20:27:44jeffbso endianness shouldn't be an issue
20:27:45jeffbit's basically a modified ipodloader2 build
20:27:45GodEaterduh - of course
20:28:14Alanshpealhey, i have a slight problem, can somebody help?
20:28:22nls_webLars_G: /,rockboxui −−background
20:28:24Soaponly if you ask
20:28:43jeffbGodEater, you got the bin2h.c?
20:28:49GodEaterI did yes
20:28:51GodEatercompiled it already too
20:29:08jeffbI stole it from some compiler tarball
20:29:09Alanshpeali have no idea how to get a theme onto rockbox on my ipod nano. i've scoured the manual and can't find anything
20:29:31SoapWhile Playing Screen
20:30:11*Lars_G bows to nls_web
20:30:16pixelmaLars_G: "Then type ./rockboxui or ./rockboxui −−background to run Uisimulator. The −−background switch displays a helpful image of the target selected in the configure stage." from the wiki ;)
20:30:18Lars_Gnls_web: I'm gratefull
20:30:32Lars_Gpixelma: Meh i missed it :D
20:31:14GodEaterdamn that's a big file once you've converted it to a char array!
20:31:52tehsmoouch ..I should nice my rockbox build
20:32:06tehsmothe combination of it and a 1000-snowflake xsnow isn't good for performance ;)
20:32:28jeffbyes it is
20:33:27nls_webso, I synced the "disk poweroff patch" anyone want to test on a non h100/h300?
20:33:32tehsmowell, the xsnow is good for programmer morale, that's a form of performance I suppose
20:35:41GodEaterthere's a lot of weird stuff in this dump
20:35:54GodEatersome of which shows that either apple or PP employ dyslexic programmers
20:36:12GodEater"Create a command shurtcut" for example
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20:36:57jeffbthere are other processors mentioned in it too
20:37:18GodEateryeah - there's a bunch of ipod models too
20:37:32GodEaterI *think* the 80G is the "M25" according to this
20:37:41GodEatercos that's what I get reported in diagnostic mode
20:38:38GodEateroh yeah - they mention the PP5026 as well
20:38:58GodEaterI didn't think there was any such beast yet
20:39:14 Quit Alanshpeal ()
20:39:21jeffbyeah I saw that too
20:40:37GodEaterc:\buildtool\1.2\M25Firmware.proj\ :)
20:41:13GodEatergood to know the apple devs work on windows :)
20:41:36jeffbhrm some bytes are different in the flash
20:41:47jeffbmaking sure it's not a code problem
20:41:50 Part hcs
20:42:10GodEaterthere's some mention of other modes too
20:42:18GodEaterretail mode, disk mode, and diag mode - which we know
20:42:23GodEaterbut there's a "scan mode" and "debugUI" mode too
20:42:40jeffbif you search for 0xc3000000
20:42:49jeffbyou'll be in the meat of the ata code
20:43:04GodEaterI'll get to that in a mo :)
20:44:28amiconn[20:40:28] <GodEater> c:\buildtool\1.2\M25Firmware.proj\ <= ahahaha
20:44:33*amiconn didn't expect that
20:45:48nls_webis it a good idea to ask in the forum if anyone knowingly sets "disk poweroff" to off?
20:46:25Lloreannls_web: With the current status of buffering lossless formats, with disk poweroff enabled I actually have to slightly increase my anti-skip buffer for FLAC playback.
20:46:47GodEatermakes me wonder if slasheri's firmware is up to date too
20:47:00nls_webLlorean: on h120?
20:47:19Lloreannls_web: Yep
20:47:35SlasheriGodEater: probably not.. i have never used itunes because i don't have windows/mac
20:47:39GodEaternow there's some mention of SMART in the diag code too
20:47:47GodEaterSlasheri, fair enough :)
20:47:49Soapthere's a non-glamourous (did I spell that right?) bug. The failure to account for bitrate in anti-skip buffer.
20:48:01Lloreannls_web: With the default anti-skip buffer, the compressed audio buffer empties during the power up, spin up, and seek.
20:48:24Lars_GAny idea why all the rocks (at least plugins) in the sim give me an: invalid ELF header
20:49:00amiconnSoap: The swcodec anti-skip buffer (and watermark) calculations are rather crappy imho
20:49:23nls_webLlorean: then the default anti skip buffer should be bigger, since I thing everyone agrees that the disk poweroff should at least default to on
20:49:46amiconnWith vbr (i.e. flac and others) the only reliable bitrate for those calculations is the maximum bitrate (i.e. uncompressed in case of flac/wavpack/alac)
20:50:26amiconnnls_web: The default anti-skip buffer should be zero, and the low watermark calculated properly, imo
20:50:31GodEaterhas anybody noticed that they've left Firewire in the diagnostics even though there's no external connector anymore ?
20:50:41Lloreanamiconn: Or actually knowing knowing how many seconds of audio remain in the compressed buffer, rather than just tracking how many bytes.
20:51:18jeffbI think a lot of that is just library code
20:51:18*Llorean agrees with amiconn re the zero-buffer and proper watermark.
20:51:20amiconnHow would rockbox know that?
20:51:25nls_webamiconn: yes of course, I'm not very familiar with the playback system
20:51:34amiconnThere is no way of knowing until the data is actually decoded
20:51:42GodEaterjeffb, no I ran the diag mode earlier on my ipod
20:51:47GodEaterit really asks you to connect to Firewire
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20:52:50jeffbit does
20:52:59amiconnGodEater: Really? On G5.5?
20:53:00GodEaterdidn't believe me huh ? :)
20:53:03GodEateramiconn, yep
20:53:17*amiconn thought the G5 and nanos didn't support firewire
20:53:17GodEaterwell they don't
20:53:22GodEaterthere's nowhere to plug it in
20:53:29GodEaterbut they left the checks in the firmware diag mode
20:53:34GodEaterwhich is annoying
20:53:36GodEatercos you can't complete the diag
20:53:41GodEaterit gets stuck at the FW check
20:53:58GodEaterthat's bloody sloppy of apple if you ask me
20:54:07amiconnGodEater: Hmm, afaik the connector at the bottom is the same for all ipods
20:54:21GodEateroh you mean the dock connector is where you plug in FW usually ?
20:54:35amiconnSo why shouldn't it be possible to connect a firewire cable
20:54:43GodEaterI guess it must be
20:54:45GodEaterI just don't have one
20:54:55amiconnThat's what I think; i only have an USB cable
20:55:22LloreanYeah, I believe it's the dock connector for firewire too
20:55:35Lars_GNewer iPods can use the FW cable for recharge only, not bus, afaik anyhow
20:55:38LloreanI know that non-firewire iPods can supposedly still charge on it.
20:55:38*amiconn wants to get a firewire cable and a charger in order to add proper firewire and charging-only detection
20:55:46GodEaterthat makes sense Lars_G - it asks for FWPWR specifically
20:55:50LloreanIt's possible firewire is just as far away as having support in the firmware.
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20:56:10Lars_GLlorean: Afaik, support is phisically out, gone.
20:56:11amiconnLlorean: Diskmode should support firewire, right?
20:56:31amiconn(on the older models of course)
20:56:42leftrighti know this is offtopic, but does anyone here use a Nokia E70 ?
20:56:46Lloreanamiconn: Yeah, on older models it does, people have installed Rockbox over firewire on the 4G I believe.
20:56:58GodEaterinteresting - there's mention of the FIQ that lostlogic was talking about earlier today
20:57:03Lars_GYes i think 4G was the last one to have FW for a bus
20:57:04 Join relaxed [0] (n=relaxed@unaffiliated/relaxed)
20:57:11LloreanI know there've been a few times where someone has said "My install didn't work right! Was it because I used firewire to copy over Rockbox?!"
20:57:20 Join cd_rom [0] (
20:57:20Lars_GWhich afaik is congruent with the change of CPUs at 5G
20:58:13*amiconn wonders whether the Mini G2 supports firewire
20:58:31amiconnMini G1 is PP5020, same as the G4
20:58:53amiconnBut Mini G2 is PP5022; no other ipod uses that one
20:59:46Lars_GAny tips on my elves?
20:59:54Lars_GI'm tired of elves, and these ones are driving me mad
21:00:30Lars_GBasically the nano-sim is throwing out: "invalid ELF header" on all rocks
21:00:36SoapFW is a great way to charge, it is easy to find 12 volt sources in real life. Harder to find 5 volt ones.
21:01:16jeffbnow that I'm truncating the apple os part to 1 byte I can load builds faster
21:01:20nls_webLars_G: are you using plugins compiled with the sim?
21:01:42Lars_GSoap: PSUs are a great source of +-12Vdc, +3Vdc and +-5Vdc
21:01:46Lars_Gnls_web: Yes.
21:02:31*GodEater can see the apple firmware icons in the dump
21:02:35 Join bun-bun [0] (n=bun@unaffiliated/bun-bun)
21:03:04Soapreally makes you realize what an /amazing/ piece of work ipodwizard is!
21:04:01GodEaterso are you still convinced you can see differences in the dumps jeffb?
21:04:01nls_webLars_G: no idea :-(
21:04:12jeffbGodEater, not yet
21:04:13jeffbI think my code is wrong
21:04:17Lars_Gthanks nls_web
21:04:50*nls_web adds the watermark calculation bug to the tracker so that it's not lost
21:05:02Lars_Gwhat arch where the iPod's cpus?
21:05:45GodEaterstill are except for the 2nd gen Nano
21:05:49sidIs the only way to charge a 5g video ipod via usb?
21:05:58Lars_GI'll use objdump on them
21:06:02lunacymazeI confirm that the firewire connector is the same as the one for USB
21:06:10sidI didn't seem to get a way to charge it via ac power.(no cable was in the box)
21:06:12sidOr is it missing?
21:06:22LloreanIt only comes with a USB cable.
21:06:28GodEaterthat's all you charge it with
21:06:43GodEatereven the aftermarker AC adaptor just lets you plug the USB cable into it
21:06:48lunacymazeand that it is absolutely possible to put rockbox on an ipod via firewire
21:06:57Lars_Garm-elf-objdump -f metronome.rock
21:06:57Lars_Garm-elf-objdump: metronome.rock: File format not recognised
21:07:12LloreanLars_G: Why would the simulator use ARM code?
21:07:26Lars_GLlorean: doh... of course.
21:07:49Lars_Gobjdump -f metronome.rock
21:07:49Lars_Gobjdump: metronome.rock: File format not recognised
21:09:48lunacymazeat the time of the 4G, apple was selling 2 models: one with firewire to use with macos and one with USB to use with windows
21:10:09Lars_Glunacymaze: But then at 5G they dropped the firewire as a connection bus.
21:10:22lunacymazeI've always used firewire with linux and rockbox on the ipod
21:10:23Lars_Gthey only preserve the +12Vdc line for charge, no more. afaik
21:10:31Lars_GEven on a 5G?
21:10:59Soaplunacymaze: there was only ever one model. Two cables, but one iPod.
21:11:05Lars_GLlorean: Anyhow these are not elf rocks, unless rocks have any layers over elf
21:11:10lunacymazeI don't know about what they did on the 5G
21:11:12Lars_GSoap: yup
21:11:19nls_webLlorean: if you want to add anything
21:11:24Lars_GSoap: And one of two cursed FSes
21:11:46sidI have my 5g video ipod plugged into my Debian box via usb, and every so often(30 minutes?) the thing will beep several time and say "ok to disconnect"
21:11:47lunacymazebut you should be right since they have stopped selling them with firewire cables
21:11:47Lars_GSoap: Either use FAT32, flunkier but works in 3 platforms, or HFS+ and use it easily only on windows.
21:11:54sidBut the battery isn't fully charged.
21:12:42lunacymazeSoap, yes but when you were buying it you had to choose
21:13:22Soapi was arguing semantics lunacymaze. They were not selling two models, they were selling two different buldled cables.
21:14:43Lars_GSoap: And maybe the things came preformated though I doubt that
21:14:47Lars_Gtoo many production line headaches
21:15:04Lars_GWhy are my rocks deformed?
21:15:17*Lars_G throws the rocks at Soap
21:15:37lunacymazeyes the macos was formatted in HFS+ whereas the windows one was formatted in FAT32
21:16:01nls_webLars_G: works here, what are you using to compile, think gss 3.3 is recomended for sims
21:16:19lunacymazeso there were 2 different packages even if the hardware was the same
21:16:34Lars_G3.3? hmmm ok
21:16:51nls_webgcc of course, and yes
21:16:53Lars_Glunacymaze: are you sure it was preformated rather than formated at connection time?
21:16:59Lars_GLet me check
21:17:52karimhey there is still no HFS+ drivers for linux ?
21:17:53Lars_Glet me edit the makefile to change to 3.4
21:17:56Lars_Gamd try
21:18:05Lars_Gkarim: There are, but they're not perfect
21:18:16nls_webI'm not sure but I think that it should work
21:18:27karimLars_G, HFS or HFS+ ?
21:18:43Lars_Gkarim: both. HFS+ is buggy sometimes
21:19:11lunacymazeLars_G, I think so
21:19:12karimLars_G, I experienced that already.
21:19:29karimLars_G, I run linux on a mac dual boot OS X
21:20:47Lars_Gkarim: Haven't had some troubles with permissologies sometimes?
21:21:12Lars_Gkarim: btw do you use MOL? it works well? is it an intel mac?
21:21:39karimLars_G, it's a powermac sawtooth 350mhz
21:21:47*Lars_G nods
21:21:55karimwhat is noding ?
21:22:47amiconnnls_web: gcc 3.3 is old; sims should build on any gcc from 3.1.x through 4.1.x
21:23:05 Quit |AhIoRoS| (Remote closed the connection)
21:23:12muesli-karim move ur head up and down :)
21:23:20Lars_GMeh i have gcc 3.4 4.0 and 4.1 is there any way to tell configure to use 3.4 and compatible options?
21:23:27nls_webamiconn: oh I think I read it in the wiki somwhere
21:24:04GodEaterLars_G, use gentoo, and it's gcc-config :)
21:24:15Lars_GI'll try disabling ccache
21:24:22Lars_GGodEater: Nah thanks I use gentoo only for servers now
21:25:24 Join Mouser_X [0] (
21:25:30nls_webaah, the vmware image uses 3.3 for native compiles, I mixed it up with that
21:26:17amiconnYeah, the vmware image is based on debian stable
21:26:22amiconn(aka debian outdated)
21:26:42nls_webheh :-)
21:27:23*nls_web is stuck with my parents windows machine over the holidays :-/
21:27:35*amiconn is running testing on x86, and unstable on amd64
21:27:58Lars_Gamiconn: not realy, debian stable is not so outdated not that it's sarge
21:28:15Lars_GAnyhow lets see if dissabling ccache fixes my rocks
21:28:20*Lars_G throws more rocks around
21:28:37GodEater4.1.1 doesn't appear to quite work with the sim
21:28:39GodEaterI just built it
21:28:49GodEaterand it loads - but never seems to get around to quite loading rockbox.ipod
21:29:04nls_webit shouldn't
21:29:07GodEaterno ?
21:29:26nls_webrockboxui replaces rockbox.whatverer for the sim
21:29:32GodEaterit's displaying the status bar at the top - but no browser
21:29:37amiconnIt is a _simulator_, not an emulator
21:29:43Lars_GGodEater: it's displaying a browser
21:29:47LloreanGodEater: Do you have any folders in the /archos/ folder?
21:29:51Lars_GGodEater: but you have no song files installed....
21:29:54GodEaterah no
21:30:00GodEaterwhat are the buttons in the sim ?
21:30:01Lars_GGodEater: change the file show mode to show all files and you will see it.
21:30:53nls_webGodEater: use /.rockboxui −−background to see buttonmappings
21:31:46Lars_Gnls_web: you keep inverting / and . :)
21:32:07GodEaterare those all keypad buttons ?
21:32:10*GodEater is using a laptop
21:32:28nls_webLars_G: too much windows lately :-)
21:33:30GodEateryeah - none of those keys do much
21:33:40amiconnGodEater: Some buttons are duplicated on standard keys, but not all
21:33:41GodEateralthough I could be asking a little much of cygwin's X server
21:33:53GodEaterI'll actually have to get up and run it on my linux PC
21:34:13amiconn2/4/6/8 is duplicated on the cursor keys
21:34:58amiconn5 is duplicated on Space, and Num-. is duplcated on Ins
21:36:14GodEaterit's the cygwin X server not playing nice
21:36:22GodEaterthe keys work fine on my actual linux box
21:36:30GodEaterI get the same as Lars_G
21:36:41GodEaterall the rocks give invalid ELF header messages
21:36:54tehsmohmm..when I run rockboxui I just get "no .rockbox directory" "installation incomplete"
21:37:01tehsmoI suspect I did soemthing silly when I built it
21:37:13amiconntehsmo: sim?
21:37:14GodEaterit looks for .rockbox in an archos sub directory
21:37:19GodEaterfor some reason
21:37:28tehsmoamiconn: yeah
21:37:30 Quit _Veseliq_ (Remote closed the connection)
21:37:37Lars_Gtehsmo: make zip and then unzip it in ./archos
21:37:41tehsmoah, thanks
21:37:41amiconn'make install' after 'make' will create the required structure
21:38:05amiconnLars_G: 'make install' is 'make zip' and unzipping in one
21:38:09 Part wibbix
21:38:19amiconn'make fullzip' even, i.e. including fonts
21:38:27tehsmosweet, thanks
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21:39:19Lars_Godd it didn't compile metronome.c
21:39:30amiconnmetronome isn't supported on the sim
21:39:46amiconnmetronome needs the user timer, and that's not simulated
21:39:56GodEaterhaving done the make install the rocks work now
21:40:06GodEaterdoing make zip and then unzipping gives the format error
21:40:15GodEaterso they must be building different things
21:40:34 Part Raboo
21:40:38GodEaterwell I promise you that make zip and then unzipping it in archos didn't work :(
21:40:51Lars_Gamiconn: JUST the app I am modifying, metronome. Ah well I'll debug by installing to dev
21:40:51Lars_Gamiconn: lol, thanks
21:40:52 Quit Mouser_X3 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:41:07amiconn@echo "installing a full setup in your archos dir"
21:41:07amiconn@($(MAKE) fullzip && cd archos && unzip -oq ../
21:41:15amiconn...from the Makefile
21:41:30GodEaterand make fullzip calls make zip somewhere ?
21:41:40 Quit sarixe (Remote closed the connection)
21:42:09Lars_Guh oh, i see a flame arising
21:42:32amiconnmake fullzip and make zip are essentially the same, just that make fullzip also includes the fonts
21:42:47LloreanThe difference between fullzip and zip should just be the fonts, right?
21:42:52amiconnBoth are handled by if you want to check
21:42:55GodEaterwell I'm confused then
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21:46:49GodEaterunexpected result from the compare ?
21:47:24 Quit bluey- ("This computer has gone to sleep")
21:48:48***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21:48:55jeffbit says over 300kb is not the same
21:48:55jeffbI don't believe i
21:49:06GodEaterthat's a fair chunk =/
21:49:40amiconnjeffb: Do you have some rom remapping code?
21:49:55amiconnAfaiu, the ram remapping done by rockbox covers the rom
21:49:59GodEaterare you still doing it in your ipl kernel ?
21:50:13jeffbyes in order to dump it, the rom must be remapped as well
21:50:14GodEatertry the RB kernel instead ?
21:50:19jeffbswitching to the rockbox bootloader
21:50:23tehsmohmm, I thought of an interesting feature; have the user be able to control the HD spinup/spindown
21:50:52tehsmoso the cache would fill up, you could exercise or whatever you want with it without worry, and then when the cache runs out it'll just stop playing and ask you to press a key to spin it up again
21:51:45bagawkwhat are you smoking?
21:52:00maquismy guess is that the cache is *way* too small for that
21:52:03tehsmothe idea being that you could jog with an HD mp3 player and not worry about the HD spinning up while you're jogging
21:52:15tehsmomaquis: the 60gb ipod has a 64mb cache; that's good for quite awhile with most codecs
21:52:25maquistehsmo: interesting...
21:52:30Lars_Gmeh 64Mb should last 4 minutes in flac!
21:52:44tehsmoLars_G: when you're exercising you don't need flac, though. :p
21:52:44jeffbGodEater, I'm actually not using the linux kernel, I'm using a the ipodloader2 bootloader code only.
21:52:55jeffbI'm getting rid of all the stuff not necessary not to do the compare.
21:52:56Lars_GBut personally I wouldn't ever use an HDD DAp for jogging
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21:53:13jeffbbasically the lcd driver will be left lol
21:53:23tehsmoah. see, I'm too cheapy to buy a seperate mp3 player
21:53:45GodEaterthe RB bootloader doesn't remap the flash image at all does it ?
21:53:50 Quit Margot_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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21:54:26amiconnGodEater: No, the bootloader doesn't remap any memory
21:54:44amiconnBut main rockbox does, and for dumping via audio we hence need to remap the rom
21:55:08GodEaterI'm still not planning on that personally
21:55:19GodEaternot yet anyway
21:55:28GodEaterwas just going to try to confirm jeffb's findings
21:56:25*amiconn would expect such a comparison to be a lot simpler on the pc
21:56:53GodEaterI'm sure it would too
21:57:09GodEaterbut I *still* have no idea where to start with dumping the rom image via audio
21:57:52Lars_Gdumpign via audio? cute
21:58:00*amiconn thinks dumping via audio should be rather straightforward
21:58:10GodEaterwell go ahead and gimme some code to do it then
21:58:10amiconnJust use some biphase code modulation
21:58:25Lars_GReminds me of the times playing C64 tapes on the stereo :)
21:58:49amiconnMost of the work probably goes into writing the biphase decoder (running on the pc)
21:59:01GodEaterthat too
21:59:07Lars_Gamiconn: Yes but at an audio DSP's frequency rates, it'd be a slow process
21:59:29amiconnWell, how often do we need to dump the ROM?
21:59:38Lars_GMeh not often, no
21:59:38amiconn(via audio, that is)
21:59:47Lars_Gin fact
21:59:48Lars_GI can't think of a single time I'd like to.
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21:59:53Lars_Gother than to annoy my friends.
22:00:06Lars_GAltough I MUST admit i've been thinking about rockbox code to "generate" music
22:00:19*amiconn would expect a full dump to take 2..3 hours
22:00:36 Quit BiptoN ("Leaving")
22:00:38GodEater"biphase code modulation" gives me exactly four hits on google
22:00:47 Quit foreverblighted (Client Quit)
22:00:48Lars_GBut my idea is other, to use predefined samples, plus rules for "nice sounding things" and mixing them at random
22:01:22Lars_GMy musician SO can give me TONS of progressions and mixes that yield nice stuff, then it's just a matter of defining instruments or loops etc as main, solo or accompainment....
22:01:30Lars_Gand select stuff at random... it's an odd litte idea i have
22:02:22Lars_GMaybe base the sound generating engine off mikmod.
22:03:07 Nick idnar_ is now known as idnar (i=mithrand@unaffiliated/idnar)
22:03:17Lars_GAnyhow first I'll finish the small changes I want
22:03:23Lars_Glike the change to the metronome plugin
22:04:17GodEatergood god
22:04:29GodEaterthe maths on the wikipedia page for it makes my eyes bleed
22:04:36GodEaterdefinitely for smoeone else to code up :)
22:05:13Lars_Gmeh what was that page with a huge load of algorithms and data structures documented?
22:05:52Lars_Gfound it
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22:08:09GodEaterdon't see an algorithm for it there
22:09:08jeffbI'm loading a build to my ipod that has a 11 meg payload on it... the last 1 meg is the flash... this way I can ensure that nothing is writing over it before the conmparison
22:09:46tehsmoso, are there any current thoughts on how to fix the bookmarks+database issue?
22:09:46GodEatergood luck :)
22:10:07tehsmoI'm looking at making them work, but I'm not sure what the best way to handle them is
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22:14:45RabidSnailDoes anybody know where I can find plugin api documentation?
22:15:12tehsmothere's some on the wiki
22:15:52x1jmpDoes have some large file support?
22:15:56RabidSnailI'll look there again
22:16:06tehsmowhich a little slow at the moment?
22:16:12x1jmpI'm having problems accessing a 3.3Gib file
22:16:21amiconnx1jmp: What do you mean?
22:16:34tehsmoRabidSnail: when the wiki starts working again, check the docs index and then the development section
22:16:38tehsmothere's a page on writing plugins in there
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22:16:42amiconnFAT32 supports up to 4GB per file _in theory_, but better stay below 2GB
22:16:48x1jmpamiconn: it freezes, when it get's opened
22:16:53amiconnThat's also the maximum rockbox supports
22:17:51x1jmpfilesize is an unsigned long in fat.h though
22:18:01RabidSnailthanks tehsmo
22:19:10x1jmpamiconn: so the rockbox limit is 2 or 4 GiB?
22:19:31amiconnssize_t and off_t are both signed long
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22:33:14jeffbSlasheri, do you know what firmware you have loaded?
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22:42:42sidI'm at artists/album/genre etc menu, how do I get to the menu where I can see how much battery is being used? And to play chess
22:43:21Lloreansid: You've been directed to the manual before, I believe...
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23:03:45sidLlorean: hmm, the iPod doesn't seem to take a charge from the battery charger anymore.
23:03:58 Quit x1jmp (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
23:04:29 Quit muesli__ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:05:19Lloreansid: You mean when you charge it in the Apple software or disk mode it doesn't charge?
23:06:07sidLlorean: I have the usb cable plugged into the back of my desktop, and I have it plugged into the bottom of the 5g ipod video device.
23:06:30sidLlorean: What apple software? the proprietary apple os stuff?
23:06:30LloreanAnd I did not ask about the cable, but rather whether you were in the Apple firmware, Disk Mode, or Rockbox.
23:06:34 Join linuxstb [0] (i=d97d1c54@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
23:06:34SoapLlorean: I'm a bit confused by the mailing list web page. I am currently subscribed to the digest, but want to switch to individual messages, do I simply need to "sign up again" to change settings? For I don't see a way to change.
23:06:39sidLlorean: I'm in rockbox.
23:07:10Lloreansid: And, as is said in several places, Rockbox currently cannot charge at full speed as we don't have full control over the USB hardware, so in many cases Rockbox will use more power than is being provided from the USB cable.
23:07:33LloreanSoap: I honestly don't know about the mailing list. Sorry.
23:07:50sidLlorean: How do I switch it to disk mode or appleos firmware?(which is better for charging?)
23:07:51linuxstbLars_G: ALAC was the first audio codec in MP4 ported to Rockbox, and when I ported AAC, I just used the same demuxer.
23:08:17sidSoap: If it's mailman you go to the mailman page for it.
23:08:21Lloreansid: When you plug the USB cable in normally, it should reboot into disk mode if you don't hold menu down...
23:09:35Lars_Glinuxstb: I see. thanks.
23:10:13sidLlorean: ok, So I just shutdown the device(got a low batter warning), now I just need to plug the device into the usb cable that is plugged into my desktop...and it will go into Diskmode and start to charge?
23:10:53Lloreansid: Seriously, you have to hold down the menu button to get Rockbox to charge without going into disk mode. How do you not know this if you've been trying to charge in-Rockbox
23:10:57LloreanYou ARE using an official build, right?
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23:11:20sidno idea, I just grabbed links someone pasted in here last night
23:11:28sidIt's a cvs one I think
23:12:18linuxstbsid: I normally just let Rockbox reboot into diskmode and charge from there. Works fine for me.
23:12:49sidWhen I hold menu while I plug it in, it tells me "ok to disconnect" and a big check
23:13:14 Join muesli__ [0] (n=muesli_t@
23:13:21sidI'm confused, if I plug in the thing when it's off will it start to charge?
23:13:41Lloreanlinuxstb: It took 15 minutes longer going from 4.08v to 3.65v with the newest coprocessor patch.
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23:13:52Lloreansid: If you see that screen with the check mark, you're in disk mode, and it will charge.
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23:14:51sidHow long does it take to get fully charged?
23:15:01linuxstbLlorean: Is that with the codec thread running on the COP? (and do we know that for sure now?)
23:15:11 Join SimonSelki [0] (
23:15:18Lloreanlinuxstb: Lostlogic is fairly confident the codec thread was running on the COP at least.
23:15:18sidI had it plugged in for a few hours today, and it didn't seem to take a charge. because the battery is dead now.
23:15:27Lloreansid: You also said it was charging in Rockbox.
23:16:15sidWhen I plug it in, I see rockbox start, then a usb cable end, then a faded static battery with a lighting bolt on the left of it.
23:16:59sidAnd every 30 minutes..the thing will beep a few times..and say "ok to disconnect" with a big check(not sure why it's doing this, but 30 or so minutes from now it will do this)
23:17:43Lloreansid: Try booting into the apple firmware then.
23:18:08SimonSelkiHey, I heard someone say that rockbox could view PDF files.... this is false, right? I mean.... right?
23:18:37sidHow do I boot into the apple firmware?
23:18:42LloreanSimonSelki: It is untrue.
23:18:43 Nick waky is now known as daky (n=sleepy@unaffiliated/waky)
23:18:43linuxstbSimonSelki: Yes, that's false.
23:18:58Lloreansid: Immediately after turning the iPod on, turn on the hold switch.
23:19:04sidYou could just convert the pdfs to jpeg/ascii before hand.
23:19:10sidThere are free tools for GNU/Linux to do this I know.
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23:20:21sidLoading original firmware...
23:21:33sidk, I see the apple firmware, and it's faded in the background while it's plugged in. I guess it's charging.
23:22:06Soap<Llorean> linuxstb: It took 15 minutes longer going from 4.08v to 3.65v with the newest coprocessor patch.
23:22:24Soap15 minutes longer than the previous 12 minutes better for a net of 27?
23:22:35Lloreansid: If it doesn't charge like that (and guessing from your strangeness with the every 30 minutes thing, it might not) you might have something wrong with your cable or USB on the PC
23:22:47 Quit muesli- (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:22:49LloreanSoap: The 15 was rounding. I'm referring to the 12
23:23:03 Join muesli- [0] (n=muesli_t@
23:23:08LloreanSoap: The total time difference on a full charge though, was about 26
23:23:33Soapand is that with something running on the COP, or just the COP activated?
23:23:42LloreanSoap: That's with the codec thread running on the COP
23:24:37Soapand the leading theory for why running threads on both has an _increase_ in runtime?
23:25:48Llorean3:35:12 with codec on the coprocessor, 3:20:11 with the coprocessor active but only the kernel on it, and 3:25:07 without the coprocessor active at all (unpatched rockbox) for exact numbers.
23:26:26LloreanSoap: We don't need to boost as often, and we probably were wasting power on the coprocessor even when we weren't using it in the past.
23:27:13jeffbI'm convinced the 30gb firmware is massively different
23:27:16jeffbfrom the 80gb
23:28:09Soaposcams razor says they aren't.
23:29:19jeffbI just did a byte for byte compare and verified nothing wrote over the payload... and I'm still seening a difference of 300kb
23:29:49Lloreanjeffb: But that difference could just be a slight offset, for example if one section is slightly longer in one than the other, and then all code past that section is identical but offset.
23:30:22LloreanSo, instead of massively different, they could be 1 byte different, 300kb from the end. :-P
23:31:30linuxstbjeffb: If they are different versions, then I'm not surprised...
23:31:38SimonSelkiAnyone involved in the creation of rockbox: Allowing people to use the original firmware is one of the greatest things about rockbox, You people are geniuses and deserve money.
23:31:41tehsmoyou could use diff to see if they're massively different or not
23:32:03tehsmoI think it generally accounts for offsets like that
23:32:04*linuxstb points SimonSelki to the paypal link on the Rockbox home page
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23:32:29Lloreantehsmo: We can't dump one of them to file, so right now all comparisons are done on the 80gb device.
23:32:38tehsmoah, no fun
23:32:50SimonSelkiOh I saw it.
23:33:12SimonSelkiI'll be forking out cash as my paychecks start comming in
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23:44:00linuxstbjeffb: I think this page is where itunes downloads the firmware upgrades from:
23:45:07linuxstbjeffb: I'm not sure which files are for which devices, but if there is only one "5g" firmware, then I think that should confirm the 30GB and 80GB flash contents are the same.
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23:48:56***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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23:50:07sidIs there anyway to have rockbox look very similar to the proprietary iPod(apple_os) main_menu/theme.(without actually using it) ie "extras" would have chess/sudoku etc
23:51:07linuxstbsid: Use the source...
23:51:09Lars_Gnot without recoding the UI
23:51:33Lars_Glinuxstb: Yup that's what I love of rockbox. on iPod's original I had stuff I missed or didn't like. but couldn't do anything about it.
23:51:42Lars_GNow, I have the power, THE POWER!!!
23:52:05Lars_Glinuxstb: Though I admit i heard about a change in the UI structure and I'm waiting to see it before doing anything Ui wise :)
23:52:31sidCan I re-arrange the menu system?
23:52:37sidSo it shows as iPod's does?
23:53:28Lars_Gyes, by rewriting code.
23:53:43 Quit muesli__ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:54:14Lars_Glinuxstb: Did you code the flac codec too?
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23:59:03linuxstbLars_G: Yes, both of them...

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