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#rockbox log for 2007-01-11

00:01:31 Quit bluebrother ("Leaving")
00:03:02 Join d47 [0] (n=d47@144.131.144.173)
00:03:05 Quit petur ("sssssssssss---------PLOP!")
00:03:10redwoodhello - I have a question regarding an error message I got on my iriver h340
00:04:06redwoodon bootup after the rockbox logo the player freezes and displays *PANIC* Stkov dircache
00:04:35redwoodi'm using dailay build 070109-0700
00:04:42preglowwell, how nice
00:04:51Lloreanredwood: Have you tried clearing your settings?
00:04:54redwoodyes
00:04:56muesli-this happens 2 be either in the last times
00:05:00redwoodit will boot then
00:05:03Lloreanredwood: And you're using the official build?
00:05:07redwoodbut then on next boot the same thing
00:05:11redwoodyes
00:05:40redwoodalthough this started after I compiled a build with the recording enhancements patch
00:05:56redwoodI then cleared settings
00:05:59redwoodsame thing
00:06:10LloreanSo, wait, an official build, or the build with the REP?
00:06:14redwoodand then reverted back to a previously compiled build
00:06:19 Quit Thundercloud_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:06:21muesli-somebody wrote on misticriver to increase a buffer
00:06:29 Quit ender` (" You know that old saying, 'Strike while the iron is hot?' Well, I think that's a pretty dumb saying, 'cause I'll betcha a co)
00:06:30redwoodthe official build still exhibits the problem
00:06:38 Quit alberink ("CGI:IRC")
00:06:40Lloreanredwood: Even after clearing settings with the official build?
00:06:43redwoodyes
00:07:04redwoodit will boot if I hold the rec button after starting
00:07:25muesli-http://www.misticriver.net/showthread.php?t=50350
00:07:43Lloreanredwood: Then, after you re-enable dircache, it Stkovs?
00:08:15muesli-Just change "0x800" to "0xA00" in dircache.c at line 63. It works fine for me
00:08:25muesli-will that help`?
00:08:54 Quit d47 ("later noobs")
00:09:10Lloreanmuesli-: This needs to be found out if it's a problem with the real build, or only triggered after using unofficial ones.
00:09:12fasmaiegoffa: Has your friend made up her mind yet?
00:09:15redwoodLlorean - it Stkovs even if i leave the settings alone
00:09:29redwoodllorean
00:09:39Lloreanredwood: It Stkovs even with dircache disabled?
00:09:42muesli-rockbox also freezes when i change the bass value. dunno if it only concerns the experimental build
00:09:49redwoodlllorean - yes
00:10:13pixelmaGenre9mp3 reported it here and discussed the problem with linuxstb - it was his advice to increase the stack size.
00:10:19Lloreanredwood: When you reinstalled Rockbox, the official build, did you erase your .rockbox folder or just overwrite it?
00:10:20redwoodbasically the only way I can get it to boot is to hold the rec button after startup
00:10:30 Quit Arathis ("[rl_bot quit]")
00:10:33redwoodllorean - I erased it
00:10:49redwoodand then tried to enable dircache
00:11:10redwoodand then it showed up, but it keeps doing it after clearing settings
00:11:53LloreanSo, if you download a daily build, delete the .rockbox folder, install the daily, boot up holding Record, everything is fine until you enable Dircache?
00:12:27redwoodessentially yes
00:12:33Llorean"essentially"?
00:12:41LloreanWhat did I leave out?
00:13:30redwoodllorean - like i said it first started after i comiled my own build
00:13:53pixelmahttp://www.rockbox.org/irc/rockbox-20070102.txt at 17:37
00:14:19LloreanJust, but if you clear your settings on a clean first boot of Rockbox official, with a completely fresh .rockbox folder, there should be no remnants of your custom build
00:14:20redwoodand then continued after a clean install of a previously working build of mine, and continues after a clean install of an official daily build
00:14:59redwoodllorean yes
00:15:46LloreanIt's just odd that every time I hear about this, it's after using a custom build.
00:15:57 Quit Seed (Nick collision from services.)
00:15:58LloreanPossibly it's a stkov happening in the building of the dircache.
00:16:04 Join Seed [0] (i=ben@bzq-84-108-237-178.cablep.bezeqint.net)
00:16:17redwoodllorean - so you've seen this b4
00:16:36LloreanLlorean: I've seen lots of this discussed in unsupported builds threads.
00:16:53LloreanAnd although I've never seen it b4, yes, I've seen it before.
00:17:01redwoodlol
00:17:04redwoodpoint taken
00:17:44redwoodLlorean is there anything I should look out for when compiling under cygwin?
00:17:56redwoodi don't recall seeing any errors
00:17:59Llorean"look out for"?
00:18:27muesli-could somebody confirm on iriver that rockbox freezes when changing the bass value`!?
00:18:44Lloreanmuesli-: I thought you said you only have experienced it on an unsupported build.
00:19:00 Join Nico_P [0] (n=nicolas@jau31-3-82-239-20-145.fbx.proxad.net)
00:19:07Lloreanredwood: If it happens in official builds, it's probably a real bug in Dircache that shows up in the (re)creation of the dircache, and is something in the code that needs tweaked, either increasing the stack size or fixing a bug.
00:19:08muesli-didnt check the "normal" build
00:19:16Lloreanmuesli-: So, couldn't *you* do that?
00:19:46muesli-sure ;-)
00:19:59redwoodLlorean - is there a common error in compiling that could cause stkov to happen
00:20:06Lloreanmuesli-: It's a little strange to ask others to confirm something that you don't even know happens yet.
00:20:14redwoodthat i should "look out for"
00:20:25Bagderredwood: stkov is a stack overflow and should not happen at all
00:20:29Lloreanredwood: See my last message to you.
00:21:09muesli-Llorean i dont see it that way. when u have installed the normal build it would be much faster to countercheck it
00:21:30*JdGordon has been getting dircache stkOv's recently also
00:21:50*Nico_P too
00:21:56Lloreanmuesli-: And if it's NOT a problem in an official build, then whoever wasted the time testing it because it's a bug in an unofficial build just spent time confirming that someone else's unofficial work has problems
00:21:57Nico_Ponly one or two though
00:22:00 Join Johnny [0] (n=johnjohn@24-182-163-178.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com)
00:22:27Lloreanmuesli-: Remember that there is a policy of "reproduce it with an official build before asking about it"
00:22:32redwoodLlorean - sorry missed it before - did you see muesli's comment : Just change "0x800" to "0xA00" in dircache.c at line 63.
00:22:35JohnnyIs anyone around willing to help me out?
00:22:37muesli-Llorean damn it..changing a bass value is not a task that will make ya sweaty!
00:22:52Lloreanmuesli-: And installing an official build won't either.
00:23:01muesli-bla bla
00:23:16Lloreanmuesli-: In fact, if you'd done it as soon as you said you'd only experienced it in unofficial ones, you'd have finished long ago.
00:24:12LloreanYou also are the only person who can reproduce the exact conditions under which it happened, since you haven't said whether music was playing or not when you adjusted the settings, what format music you were playing, whether you had any other settings enabled...
00:24:21preglowhmm
00:24:26preglowi actually think css3 supports text direction!
00:24:27LloreanYou've given *far* too little information for anyone to reliably guess what conditions it's expected to freeze under.
00:24:36Lloreanpreglow: *gasp*
00:24:38Bagderyes
00:24:44Mikachuyarooh
00:24:45Bagderbut css3...
00:24:47preglowtoo bad nothing supports css3
00:24:48preglowheh
00:24:50LloreanHehehe
00:24:57preglowapart from ie, which supports that attribute alone
00:25:11 Quit fasmaie ()
00:25:36Lloreanredwood: Smaller numbers between those may even work too, possibly. But the question is whether that's the right fix or not.
00:26:17redwoodllorean - i'll try to test it
00:26:37pixelmapreglow: reminds me of the golden rules of html... ;)
00:27:39JohnnyAlright, I guess I'll just throw it out there and if someone knows a sloution then feel free to tell.
00:27:42jbai don't mean to badger you Bagder but there isn't really anyone around who works on the gigabeat lately
00:28:09Bagderyou mean lately as in the recent hours?
00:28:15jbaa in the last two days
00:28:16Bagderand "around" as in this IRC channel?
00:28:18jbasince the svn migration
00:28:19 Join tamacracker [0] (n=tamacrac@c-67-191-48-48.hsd1.fl.comcast.net)
00:28:36jbashould i logg the bass/treble patch in flyspray and forget it ?
00:28:46BagderI've got mail and handed out svn access to three gigabeat hackers
00:28:51Lloreanjba: There is a log for this channel to find if people have been around
00:28:54Mikachujba: if you put something in flyspray and forget it, it will never get merged
00:29:01jbathat's my worry
00:29:20jbayesterday you said there was only one gigabeat dev with svn (sloth, greg white)
00:29:30LloreanBagder: Is there any chance of me getting SVN access, so I can probably help keep installation instructions up to date in the manuals at the very least? I figure I could fit in with the manual crew, and not screw up the tex too badly.
00:29:30Bagderyes
00:29:37jbai can't seem to get a response from gotthardt or sloth
00:29:58Mode"#rockbox -o Mikachu " by Mikachu (i=Mikachu@kr-lun-154-152-233-83.3.cust.bredband2.com)
00:29:59jbaLlorean: i know about the log
00:32:06Lloreanjba: As for posting things in the tracker, it's a good place to keep them. Even if they get lost, you can still pester people about 'em, and that way they might get noticed while you're not around.
00:32:15LloreanBasically, it can only help to have it in the tracker.
00:33:01JdGordonjba: plus, if the devs you want are on the tracker mailing list, they will see the patch when you add it
00:33:05JohnnyI've installed the bootloader on my 80gig and I can't seem to get it off this bootloader screen. I didn't put the .rockbox folder into the root, and restarting the thing just puts me right back at the same screen.
00:33:17Johnny...Am I screwed?
00:33:35 Quit muesli- ("ich will Khe!!!")
00:33:38Mikachutry restarting and then immediately turning on hold
00:33:44Mikachuthat is the new way of booting retailos right?
00:34:26JohnnyHm, no luck.
00:34:31LloreanJohnny: A) The 80gb isn't supported. B) Get into the emergency disk mode (hold Menu+Select to reboot, and then Play+Select immediately until disk mode starts) and follow the uninstall directions.
00:34:35jbaokay will log a flyspray with it
00:35:01 Join Bohboheroed [0] (n=Bohboher@cpe-66-75-139-2.san.res.rr.com)
00:35:03JohnnyI thought it wasn't. The fact that the bootloader installed made me think otherwise. Oh well.
00:35:28LloreanJohnny: You should be able to uninstall it fine.
00:35:37LloreanJohnny: It *does* say on the front page of the site that your iPod isn't supported
00:35:41 Quit CriamosAndy ("( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.03 :: www.XLhost.de )")
00:35:47JohnnyHeh, I realize that now.
00:35:53JohnnyI followed a guide from the forums.
00:36:00dewdude_Johnny: it says on the front page the 80 gig isn't supported.
00:36:09JohnnyYeah.
00:36:17JohnnyThanks for the help, though.
00:37:22 Quit Zagor ("Client exiting")
00:38:04 Join muesli__ [0] (n=muesli_t@91.64.233.208)
00:38:30 Quit Johnny ()
00:38:31Bohboheroedsmall question after you copy the WPS file into the WPS folder what needs to be done to load it after you disconnect and reboot ipod?
00:39:29JdGordonthe audio buffer is used as a ring buffer right?
00:39:49Juice^Bohboheroed: load it from the themes menu?
00:40:22Bohboheroedyeah i didn't see it showing up
00:41:16LloreanBohboheroed: if it's JUST a WPS file, you load it from "Browse WPS" not "Browse Themes"
00:41:35Nico_PJdGordon: i'm pretty sure it is
00:42:06Bohboheroedhmm maybe im just not finding the menu
00:43:05 Quit My_Sic (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:43:09 Quit tamacracker (Remote closed the connection)
00:46:57 Join amiconn_ [0] (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn)
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00:52:27Bagdera first commit
00:52:39LloreanAnd I don't think I broke anything!
00:52:51LloreanNot that the manual is *too* easy for me to break.
00:53:17 Join Juice^ [0] (n=juice@213.167.96.196)
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00:54:38 Quit Redbreva (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:57:31 Join tchan [0] (n=tchan@lunar-linux/developer/tchan)
00:57:41KCCSo today I went over to futureshop, and to my surprise, i found a bran spankin new Gigabeat F10 sitting there on the shelf
00:57:49KCCand then right below it was the pricetag:
00:57:55KCC$219.99!!!
00:58:12KCCthat little 'beat still fetches big prices to this day, gotta love it
00:58:39pixelmaBagder: did you get my mail? ...just wondering
00:58:58Bagderoh, yes I got it
00:59:09Bagderall mails about svn commit access so far have been taken care of
00:59:15pixelmaok.. no hurry :)
00:59:24BagderI optimized away the replies ;-)
00:59:41pixelmahehe
01:00
01:00:10BohboheroedCan anyone tell me where the WPS options are I uploaded a new one to the ipod but haven't figured out how to select it
01:00:12toffeKCC : price increase since rockbox works on the gigabeat ;)
01:00:26LloreanBohboheroed: See the manual.
01:00:44BohboheroedI am reading through it but the PDF manual doesn't work for the 4g grey
01:00:50Bohboheroedit says its broken
01:02:15pixelmaBohboheroed: the online version is still available
01:02:51LloreanBohboheroed: http://download.rockbox.org/manual/rockbox-ipod4gray-20070109.pdf
01:03:21 Quit Daishi ("Client exiting...")
01:03:55redwoodLlorean, pixelma, muesli - thanks for the help, will try to increase the stack size to see if it will stop the Stkov
01:04:45 Join Fogles [0] (n=professi@c-71-199-191-179.hsd1.ga.comcast.net)
01:05:23BohboheroedThanks Llor that one is working
01:05:25Fogles***PRANKS@vent.87ci.com:2-PRANKS,GAMING,RAGING,STICKAMRAGING,FREECAFEACCOUNTGIVEAWAYS,ANDMORE!!!!!!****
01:05:28 Quit amiconn (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:05:28 Nick amiconn_ is now known as amiconn (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn)
01:05:41 Quit Fogles (Excess Flood)
01:05:42Mode"#rockbox +b Fogles!*@* " by Bagder (n=daniel@rockbox/developer/bagder)
01:05:42Mode"#rockbox +o preglow " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
01:05:48preglowokies
01:05:52bagawkwtf
01:06:22bagawkspam on IRC?
01:06:26preglowhaha
01:06:36preglowyou must be new on irc
01:06:54bagawkno
01:07:05davenIRC 2.0
01:07:06Bagderguess why they added +n ...
01:07:08bagawkIrssi uptime: 62d 1h 28m 42s
01:07:10daven;)
01:07:24Aloneathats the first spam I have ever seen on here too
01:07:32LloreanIt's fairly uncommon here.
01:07:46bagawkI do not go to many large channels, and I stay on freenode though
01:10:14***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:10:51preglowi've been seeing spam/takeovers/trolls for the past 12 years or so
01:10:51preglowdon't remem
01:11:00preglowi don't remember exactly when is tarted using irc
01:11:06preglowstarted too
01:11:39 Quit Nico_P (Remote closed the connection)
01:11:44BagderI joined 93-94
01:11:56Bagderback on efnet
01:12:09 Join dioz [0] (n=dioz@69-11-10-122.regn.hsdb.sasknet.sk.ca)
01:12:41Bagderbut now, sleep
01:12:56preglowyeah, efnet
01:12:59preglowi'm still on that
01:13:01Juice^nity
01:13:04preglowjust not very talkative
01:13:16diozhmm, 60gb ipod photo, default install of rockbox with default skin and i got maybe 3 hours shuffling a 54song playlist
01:13:20preglowi actually think i started out on undernet
01:13:34diozdoes that sound about right ?
01:13:47preglowdioz: unfortunately, yes
01:14:13Mikachuis that with peakmeters?
01:14:27diozi was wondering if that would make a difference....
01:14:27preglowprobably
01:14:44diozAND is there a way to completely turn off the lcd when it's on HOLD ?
01:16:00Aloneadioz: I submitted a bug report on that today
01:16:14preglownah, but the lcd itself doesn't need too much power
01:16:17preglowonly the backlight
01:16:28LloreanAlonea: The LCD and the backlight are two different things
01:18:54diozhmm
01:19:12diozmy cat is a savage
01:19:47diozbut uh, what bug are you talking about ?
01:19:51diozi don't see no bugs
01:20:08diozi have lice
01:20:11diozbye
01:20:53Aloneao..k..bye too..erm, just read the bug report if you want to know about it..I asked someone else and they had the same thing...
01:21:10 Quit juxtap (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:23:14dan_aIf I wanted to edit Rockbox so it played an MP3 on startup, is there an easy way to do that? It's for a test, so it can be hacky
01:23:41Lloreandan_a: Resume on startup?
01:24:15dan_aThe target I'm working on doesn't have an LCD driver, but I want to test the sound driver
01:24:34LloreanAaah
01:26:13LloreanYou could hard-code the resume to open a specific file, and the resume on startup to default to yes? It seems complicated, but then, I don't know how complicated the other options are.
01:26:52redwoodLlorean - have not had a chance to recompile yet with the new stack size but just confirmed again by an new clean install of today's build that I still get the Stkov error
01:26:59dan_aIf I could find where the resume settings are stored, that might be the easiest way to do it
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01:27:42BohboheroedIF you aren't actively using / accessing your ipod you can ignore teh do not disconnect message correct?
01:28:06LloreanBohboheroed: You should always eject it first.
01:28:12 Quit MarcoPolo ("Bye !")
01:28:35Lars_GHmmm, eject....
01:28:59Bohboheroedwhats the easiest way to eject it
01:29:10BohboheroedSorry this is my first day owning an Ipod
01:29:59Lars_Gyou're on linux?
01:30:01Lloreandan_a: I figured hacking old code to do what you want might be easier than actually putting in new code.
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01:30:30BohboheroedXP I tried right click eject but said in use and I really hate to use itunes
01:31:21dan_aLlorean: I was sort of hoping for "Just call play_mp3_file(filename)"... but resume on startup will be OK, I think
01:31:40dan_aBohboheroed: If it's telling you something is using it, then don't disconnect it
01:31:44Lloreandan_a: There probably is an ultra-simple way like that. I just don't know anything. :)
01:31:53LloreanBohboheroed: Try the eject a second time.
01:31:56LloreanWindows likes to lie the first time.
01:32:05Bohboheroedwill do thanks
01:32:07LloreanYou should never assume that it lies, but you should always try it twice.
01:33:58Aloneai almost always have to do it twice before it does
01:34:39Bohboheroedtwice worked great thanks time to uninstall itunes!
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02:00
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02:02:06 Part Llorean
02:03:21 Part redwood
02:04:05jbai think the inability to eject the first time is related to windows delayed write
02:04:06jbano?
02:05:01Lars_Git's possible
02:06:02 Quit cynicalliberal (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:06:20jbait always hapepens to me when i upgrade firmware, cause i unzip, close the zip app and eject
02:06:41jbabut i find if i've had it plugged in idle for a while (or don't try to write to it) it ejects first time
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02:12:59 Join Llorean [0] (n=Llorean@rockbox/administrator/Llorean)
02:13:02Lloreandan_a:
02:13:07Lloreandan_a: You present?
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02:13:14dan_aI am!
02:13:40Lloreandigitalpunk51 is rather high on the "problem user" list. Until I've worked out what to do with him, be careful about things he can take as antagonism.
02:13:47*Mouser_X is as well, though, that's not who you asked for...
02:14:38Febs_Is that our special friend?
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02:16:57dan_aLlorean: Will do - I'll double-check what I said to him
02:17:34Febsdan_a: what you said was fine and he already responded.
02:18:00LloreanJust giving advanced warning.
02:18:22FebsHe's still watching that thread, undoubtedly waiting for someone to take the troll bait.
02:19:11*Mouser_X bites.
02:19:13Mouser_Xj/k
02:19:26Mouser_XI'm not even signed up on the forums.
02:19:40Mouser_XAnd I've only seen them twice...
02:21:04dan_aOh yes, I see. Llorean - how do you know that he's a problem user when he only has 2 posts?
02:21:16Lars_GWhere's the thread?
02:22:34Lloreandan_a: Because he was a previous user who circumvented a ban, created that account, and sent me messages from that account earlier daring me to ban him again.
02:22:41dan_aLars_G: Sansa thread. It's probably best not to reply
02:23:02Lars_GI'm not expecting to reply I just want to see what's up. is this forum or list?
02:23:30Febshttp://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=3225
02:23:33FebsLast page.
02:23:37Lars_GThank you very much
02:23:44LloreanSince he actively circumvented a ban (and has consequently broken Cox's acceptable use policy) I'm trying to work through their Abuse system, but it's Cox, and that name is indicative of how they create customers and non-customers alike.
02:23:58pixelmais that the one you talked about earlier?
02:24:16 Quit roolku ()
02:24:28LloreanAye
02:24:42LloreanSo far he's (kinda) behaving himself.
02:26:49pixelmaI see
02:27:30LloreanHe's rather determined not to be banned, but if he does become a problem I'll come up with a more encompassing solution.
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02:28:31LloreanI have a few (moderately draconian) ideas to solve the problem, but they'll unfortunately irritate new good users as well.
02:29:26*linuxstb_ reads that the AV320's USB bridge supports LBA48
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02:35:24perldiverha that sansa thread is really angry
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02:44:09Mouser_XI can't help but wonder, when I read this, what are the buttons/keys?
02:44:09Mouser_Xhttp://download.rockbox.org/manual/rockbox-gigabeatf/rockbox-buildch3.html#x5-190003.1.2
02:44:45Mouser_XIf there's something that's supposed to be in the box, under "Keys," I don't see it.
02:44:55Mouser_X*Key
02:45:06perldiverthe manual doesnt have any pictures yet i think
02:45:11perldiveronly placeholders
02:45:45Mouser_XI've seen a few pictures.
02:47:12perldiveryeah, a few
02:50:41perldiveroh cisco is sueing apple now
02:50:42perldivernice
02:51:12Mouser_XHeh.
02:51:19Mouser_XFor the iPhone thing?
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02:51:22fasmaieanyone here use RB on a gigabeat?
02:51:28Mouser_XI will.
02:51:30d47i do
02:52:17fasmaied47: do you know how to save a playlist...I can name it, but I don't know which button to use to actually save it
02:52:25*Mouser_X should be getting his TGB (as opposed to Gigabyte, or Gameboy) within a week, hopefully.
02:52:33d47the power button
02:52:46fasmaied47: I guess I need to hold it
02:52:51fasmaie?
02:53:00d47i think, let me try
02:53:02 Part norbusan
02:53:17perldiverfasmaie its all in the manual?
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02:54:53fasmaieperldiver: it says in the manual to 'accept' the name...but it does not say what button to use
02:54:56linuxstb_fasmaie: Looking at the keymaps (apps/keymaps/keymap-gigabeat.c), it looks like a short press on POWER to exit the keyboard.
02:55:15fasmaielinuxstb_:
02:55:18fasmaielinuxstb_: thanks
02:55:27perldiverand yes, power button should save it
02:56:18d47yeh, i just tried, power button works for me
02:57:24Aloneafasmaie: I use rockboy. works great
02:57:35fasmaieThanks everyone
02:57:47fasmaieI was holding the power button for too long
02:58:12fasmaieAlonea: yes it does
02:58:42fasmaieWas just taking me a bit to adjust to the interface, coming from rockbox on the iPod
02:58:46Aloneano problems with sound at all really. At least none that I noticed
02:59:07perldiverit would be nice to be able to map up and down buttons though
02:59:24fasmaieNot in the gigabeat port....I was having a little trouble with the iPod port on my 4G greyscale
02:59:31fasmaieBut fixed that
03:00
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03:00:14fasmaiegigabeat sounds much better than my old iPod
03:01:03Aloneafasmaie: yeah, the cpu is quite nice.
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03:01:46perldiverits almost impossible to play most of the games on the cross without up/down buttons functioning
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03:02:11fasmaieJust need to find a nice skin for it
03:02:24fasmaieperldiver: I can imagine
03:02:49perldiverotherwise its great yeah :)
03:03:31KCCMouser_X: i fooled around with an F10 today at future shop, I love that thing! mine comes in a couple days...!
03:03:56perldiveryou should've gone for f20
03:04:22perldiverblack, probably one of the best mp3 players ever made
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03:04:33fasmaieI got the f40....from the wife
03:04:35d47i got f20, but i couldnt find the black 1
03:04:52kkurbjunIs there anything I need to do to activate my svn account after the move?
03:05:18scorchemail Bagder...see the dev ml
03:05:51scorcheand then laugh at safetydan ;)
03:06:08perldiverhttp://www.iriver.co.kr/event/ces2007/c_event.asp?mode=6
03:06:09CassandraBut first you must obtain an authorisation to mail Badger. I sell these for a very reasonable 99.99.
03:06:10kkurbjun: ), why is that?
03:06:29scorchejust see the ml and you will understand
03:06:46kkurbjunhaha, I see
03:06:51perldiverlove the mini keyboard
03:08:00CassandraOh, and you have to wear a police uniform when you mail him. We'll know if you cheat.
03:09:40dan_aOops. I dressed as Sting when I did it - does that count?
03:10:16***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
03:10:22perldiverwhat sting costume really consists of?
03:10:33CassandraHmmm. Dubious, but your supreme ruler (ie me) is feeling generous today. You may live. But not have SVN access.
03:10:43*Llorean got SVN access.
03:10:52LloreanI cheated though, I wore a Rockbox Developer Disguise.
03:12:43CassandraDisguising yourself as something you are, eh? Cunning. No wonder Bagder was confused into granting you access. He will be punished later, but what's done is done.
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03:30:36scubacolesHi all, can someone with write priveliges to the Wiki add "MAX - Mac Audio X" from sbooth.org/max to the CD Rippers Section in Twiki/Main/UsefulTools, It's a MacOS X only app obviously
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03:59:43Aloneasomeone mind helping me understand cygwin? I was following the instructions and I got it going and stuff It said something about cross compiling and it should of done it, but if it failed do so and so in nano? How do I know if it failed or not?
04:00
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04:04:23FebsAlonea, you might get a better response if you phrase your question more clearly. You've used the word "it" six times in two sentences.
04:06:15Aloneaok. I am completely new the program and dont really have any idea what I am doing. On http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/CygwinDevelopment , Step 4 it says This is automatically done by the installation script. " Then it says it might of failed. How do you know if it failed or not?
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04:12:47sneakumsis it the following error?
04:12:49sneakumsWARNING: this may cause your build to fail since we cannot do the
04:12:49sneakumsWARNING: checks we want now.
04:12:57sneakumsif os, then you need to add the cross compiler to your PATH
04:13:51sneakumsoh, step 4 tells you how to do that, never mind
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04:15:05Aloneaok, it didn't do any of that. Now, what about basic commands? Like, how to call up a directory? Do I type it in like C:\Windows or do I need to do something else? Or do I need to goto the cygwin and look for a guide there?
04:15:32jbashonky, hey hye how goes mate
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04:18:59Phish|I have a Sony microphone that i'd like to use with my 5g 30gb ipod video to record. I know you need to do line-in through the dock connector. What dock connector do I need so that I can plug the microphone in, rather than use a line-in cable. The microphone has the same size plug as the headphone jack accepts.
04:19:44Soapyou'd need a line-in adapter for your dock port (for sure), and a pre-amp for the microphone (most likely)
04:20:20Aloneamy other question is about getting the source code (I am simply trying to install patches). http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/SimpleGuideToCompiling Now I wanted to get it from the CVS and I managed to do it, but since its svn now, is there a new command?
04:21:04Phish|Soap: so then the line-in adapter just has the correct jack on it for me to plug the mic in? I assumed I'd need some special female converter.
04:21:28Soapthe physical connection is only 1/2 the issue.
04:21:44SoapA microphone does not produce signals at a line level.
04:21:45Phish|well the mic is a powered mic with a pre-amp of its own
04:21:59SoapThus you need a mircophone amp.
04:22:11Mikachui thought you could record through the headphone jack on ipod videos
04:22:23Phish|Mikachu: that stopped with the 4g
04:22:34Phish|seems like it might just be easier to throw rockbox on my 4g
04:22:45Mikachui just know you can't on my nano :)
04:23:06LloreanMikachu: But there are plenty of people willing to claim otherwise
04:23:42Mikachupeople are willing to claim lots of things
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04:25:19Phish|sheesh....the line in adapter is a touch expensive
04:25:23Aloneaok, nevermind on the basic commands, I think I got it. But my SVN question still stands
04:25:45Soaphow much Phish?
04:25:46LloreanAlonea: Yes, SVN requires new instructions
04:26:12Phish|Soap: $40 according to one website that has a bunch of different connectors
04:26:25AloneaLlorean: Do you know how to download the source then through that or is it not up yet?
04:26:50SoapPhish|: make one yourself. The connectors are cheap. For $40 you could make yourself dozens of them.
04:27:03MikachuAlonea: the command is in topic
04:27:31Phish|Soap: unfortunately I know absolutely nothing about wiring or electronics
04:27:52LloreanI can't remember the exact patch
04:27:55AloneaMikachu: ok, did not know that was what that was. ^^;; shall try it.
04:28:02LloreanIt was something like svn co svn://svn.rockbox.org/rockbox/trunk
04:28:13LloreanOh, almost goti t
04:28:16*Llorean sees the topic
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04:28:56SoapPhish|: out of curiosity - If I made a wiki tutorial on making iPod dock connectors - would you try it? Or would I be wasting my time?
04:29:07Phish|i'd certainly try it
04:29:21Phish|i'm a musician....being able to record my practice sessions on my ipod would be amazing
04:29:51Aloneaok now, here it says "Typing the command cd.. goes back out of the folder" tried that and it says bad command.
04:30:12Soapcd<space>..
04:30:52Soap(though I just tried it, cd.. works in DOS)
04:31:04Aloneaah. ok. I will get the hang of this eventually. thanks for everyones patience
04:31:12Mikachualias cd..='cd ..'
04:32:00Aloneayeah, I remember DOS and it seems pretty much the same somewhat...
04:33:11perldiverPhish|
04:33:13perldiverhttp://www.slipperybrick.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/belkin-tunestudio-mixer-ipod.jpg
04:33:23perldiverdirt cheap as well
04:33:30Phish|oh cool
04:33:44Aloneaoh, do I need to get a svn package for cygwin? the command didn't work.
04:34:29perldiverPhish| hitting stores close to summer
04:34:34perldiveraround $150
04:35:14MikachuAlonea: probably, i heard you want 1.4.x, not 1.3.x
04:35:28Phish|perldiver: that'll definitely be my long term solution
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04:36:08AloneaMikachu: Yeah, I see 1.4.x on the list under devel. Do I need to get anything else?
04:36:18perldiverPhish| i think it should be an OK device with reasonably price tag
04:36:20Mikachui dunno
04:37:05Phish|perldiver: it should do well....it records at the standard rates for a finished-product cd
04:37:21Aloneawell, I shall just try all the subversion 1.4 stuff under devel and see if the command works after that.
04:37:30Phish|you don't really have the option to work in higher "resolution" and then downconvert, but for what i want it for, it's perfect
04:38:09perldiverwell thats limited by the ipod itself
04:38:23Phish|right
04:43:04Phish|Soap: if you do that tutorial, just let me know what help you need from me and i'll do what i can
04:43:18Phish|time to go practice cello for now though
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04:43:42Aloneayay! its downloading the source.
04:44:35Mikachuthat was sort of unexpected
04:44:42Mikachu(the cello)
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04:45:37Aloneanow all the patching and compiling instructions should be the same, correct?
04:45:38tamitallDoes anyone happen to have an idea bout why my new rockbox'd iriver H10 20gb won't connect via USB?
04:46:21MikachuAlonea: yeah i can't imagine why not
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04:47:35AloneaMikachu: I get excited over things I have never done before. To me, this is really cool. I like learning new things
04:48:43Mikachuthe first time i ran a selfcompiled x server i was pretty amazed too :)
04:49:27Phish|cellothat's because sometimes getting that stuff to compile is a minor miracle
04:49:38Phish|celloespecially before you really understand what you're doing
04:50:09Aloneayup. remember my compy sci class from a few years ago.
04:50:16Mikachui think it was around xfree 4.1 or 4.2 or something
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04:50:30AloneaI am finally getting back into it and thats now my major
04:51:05Phish|cellohmmm, should i keep my 4g ipod and put rockbox on it or give it to my mom :-/
04:53:15Mouser_XGive it to me?
04:53:20Mouser_X)j/k)
04:53:20DogBoyor me
04:53:29DogBoyI'm serious
04:53:44Mouser_XHeh.
04:54:23Phish|celloi think i'd rather put a bigger hard drive in it and use it for recording :)
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04:55:29Mouser_XUnderstandable.
05:00
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05:05:20Aloneaok, I selected my platform, which is gigabeat, and I selected Normal Build. and now it says ..tools/configure: line 1359: arm-elf-gcc: command not found then a Warning saying that (arm-elf-gcc) is not in your path
05:05:51redwoo1hey Llorean I changed the default stack size and got rid of the Stkov error I was experiencing earlier
05:10:25***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
05:16:29Aloneareinstalling arm-elf-gcc and seeing if that helps...
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05:27:53Aloneaok, it keeps saying that the arm-elf-gcc: command not found. and not in your path...so does this mean the cross compiler actually didn't go on?
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05:34:16Phish|celloand my 4g now officially records properly
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05:34:30redwoo1Alonea - did you edit /etc rpofile to include the path?
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05:34:42redwoo1sorry /etc/profile
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05:35:26Aloneaumm no...didnt know I needed to. Following http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/CygwinDevelopment. think goffa has got my solution in gigabeat channel
05:36:10redwoo1Alonea - look at step 4 in that guide
05:36:57Phish|cellothough i was thinking....if apple's DRM was cracked by playing the file through itunes and capturing the AAC frames, shouldn't it theoretically be possible to store the info needed for the drm in a directory on a rockbox ipod, then write a plugin that fools the file in to thinking it's running in itunes, then capture the AAC frames and output to the headphones?
05:37:22Phish|cellothat way you can listen to protected content, but only if you own it
05:37:36Aloneayeah, thats what I am doing. I didn't know how to start nano. Asked goffa and he said nano ~/.bashrc
05:37:47LloreanPhish|cello: iPods synced with iTunes DRMed songs already have the data on disk to decode them.
05:38:10Phish|celloright but rockbox doesn't have access to the data, does it?
05:38:14LloreanPhish|cello: That's why some methods of stripping it require an iPod to be attached.
05:38:54LloreanThe data's there. Rockbox can use it as easily as SharpMusique or whatever, if it really cared to, but removing DRM in any manner becomes a gray area.
05:38:57Aloneanow, I typed that in, so, now how to I get to the line that says: PATH=/usr/local/etc. etc...
05:39:06Phish|celloLlorean: i'm not talking about removing the DRM
05:39:07LloreanEven if it's just playback of legally owned songs
05:39:16LloreanPhish|cello: You are removing it, even if only in RAM
05:39:27Phish|cellowell yes, i suppose you are
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05:39:46Phish|cellobut if you only allow it if the user knows the account info for the tracks, it shouldnt matter
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05:40:18Phish|cellothough you run in to the issue of never being able to make the source publically available, lest you be accused of supporting piracy
05:40:21Larsiehi
05:40:31redwoo1alonea - you have /etc/profile open in an editor?
05:40:42LloreanPhish|cello: Actually, current de-DRMing methods of the iTunes songs already require you to be the actual "owner" of the songs
05:40:49Phish|celloright
05:40:52LloreanYour account info is stored on your iPod.
05:41:07LloreanBut publishing the decryption algorithm is questionable.
05:41:10Alonearedwoo1: have noooo idea
05:41:14Phish|celloright
05:41:17LloreanAnd in the united states at least, even decrypting them in that way is a breach of the DMCA
05:41:21Alonearedwoo1: have never used nano
05:41:30redwoo1it's an editor
05:41:41Phish|celloLlorean: yeah, though most would argue tha telling me what devices i can use my music on is actually illegal as well
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05:41:58Aloneayeah...i figured. but I dont know how to use it
05:42:01LloreanPhish|cello: Oh, there's no question of iTunes' legality
05:42:09redwoo1alonea - i'm not too familiar with nano but it should be easy enough
05:42:13LloreanPhish|cello: You signed an agreement stating that you would accept their conditions on the music.
05:42:13Phish|cellobut that's not the issue i'm really dealing with....i'm saying that in theory, it should be fairly easy to play drm-encoded songs on rockbox using AAC frame capture
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05:42:22LarsieI'm working on my first usefull patch for rockbox :D Allow Backlight Brightness and proper PWM fading on 4g greyscale/photo/color :)
05:42:25redwoo1alonea - lemme see if i have it installed
05:42:28LloreanSo it became legal the instant you signed that document.
05:42:38Larsieit's already kind of working :)
05:42:48LloreanPhish|cello: Oh yeah, in theory, Rockbox-on-iPod could be made to play iTunes DRMed music in a manner that preserves the encryption on the songs.
05:42:52redwoo1alonea - i don't
05:43:05redwoo1i usually use vim for editing
05:43:14LloreanPhish|cello: I don't know what you're talking about by "AAC frame capture", you'd really just play them back much the way the iPod does: Decrypt to RAM, play.
05:43:32Aloneaumm, I might have that...dunno. How do I know if I got that?
05:43:34Phish|celloLlorean: FairUse used that method in their DRM-stripper
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05:44:10Phish|celloplay the music through itunes legally using your account info, then literally record the data post-decryption and save it to a non-encrypted file
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05:44:20Phish|cellospecifically m4a
05:44:31Phish|cellowhich happens to be AAC
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05:44:43LloreanPhish|cello: If that were the case, the file would have to be decrypted before syncing to the iPod.
05:44:58LloreanIf it requires iTunes to play the song to capture the frames, it's somewhat useless for Rockbox.
05:45:29Phish|cellowell right, but what i'm arguing is that you could write a plugin to fool the drm in to thinking it IS running on itunes, but using the account info already stored on the ipod
05:45:55LloreanThat's not really how DRM works.
05:46:02redwoo1alonea - I guess you are doing the cygwin compile for the 1st time using the instructions from the wiki?
05:46:16LloreanThere's no program code to fool in the m4p files. You just have to be able to decrypt them.
05:46:32 Nick Phish|cello is now known as Phish| (i=Phish@12.161.214.172)
05:46:45Phish|hmmm
05:47:13Phish|well even if you could figure out the encryption method yourself, you could still potentially be sued by apple for implementing it
05:47:17Phish|which is unfortunate
05:47:29dewdude_the best thing to do is avoid buying from itunes store.
05:47:42LloreanYeah, I don't really see the point of supporting the iTunes store anyway
05:47:51Alonearedwoo1: yup...though its kinda wierd cause you and goffa are explaining
05:47:58Phish|because i get a ton of classical music from that store much cheaper than i can get it elsewhere
05:48:00dewdude_personally, if you're running rockbox, you oughta be enough of a geek to know better.
05:48:34Phish|plus there isn't really huge selection of classical music available for illegal download
05:48:43LloreanNobody's suggesting illegal download.
05:48:50LloreanI'm just not a fan of telling apple "It's okay to rent me my music"
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05:49:30Phish|eh, i guess for now that means just stripping the drm, which doesn't bother me at all
05:49:46dewdude_good luck with that.
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05:50:12Phish|dewdude_: i've already done it....the FairUse app is all over the internet
05:50:28LloreanYou're still giving them money though, which supports the DRM whether you strip it or not.
05:50:57Phish|Llorean: i understand that. but financially it's much cheaper than going out and buying a classical music cd for the one track i want
05:51:04dewdude_yeah...but does it actually strip the DRM...or just use some tricky method to decode the data then re-encode it.
05:51:33Phish|dewdude_: it plays the file through itunes and then captures the decrypted data and re-writes it without drm to a .m4a file
05:51:47dewdude_before or after decoding?
05:51:52Phish|after decoding
05:52:03dewdude_ok, so you're basically re-encoding the file.
05:52:12Phish|yes, but without any drm
05:52:34dewdude_but you're re-encoding the file. you're taking a lossy file, decoding it, then applying the same lossy tecnhique to it.
05:52:55Phish|correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't AAC lossless?
05:53:11LloreanNo, AAC isn't lossless
05:53:31Lloreandewdude_: Fairplay actually doesn't transcode. It captures the decrypted, but still encoded, data, as far as I'm aware
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05:53:39Phish|Llorean: correct
05:53:46dewdude_oh, that's different then.
05:54:02Phish|so you're "saving" not re-encoding
05:54:04dewdude_i didn't know they had actually done that...then again, last time i had anything with DRM was WMA files from 1999
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05:54:23dewdude_i haven't kept up on how the indistry is trying to screw me.
05:54:29dewdude_*industry
05:54:30Phish|i didnt even know you could do it until about 10 minutes ago
05:54:34Phish|when i googled it
05:54:58Mouser_XHeh.
05:55:07Mouser_XSo, what did you Google?
05:55:27Phish|i doubt this is the place to go about speaking of illegal things
05:55:35Phish|in specifics, anyway
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05:56:08LloreanPhish| speaks a truth.
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05:57:55combrainsi believe another cool app combo for stripping DRM is JHymn + Fairkeys
05:58:09Phish|it's unfortunate to have to do, as i don't support stealing music(being a musician and all)
05:58:15Alonea#gigabeat
05:58:23Phish|but for those of us who use classical music recordings as a study tool, it gets way too expensive
05:58:39Phish|much more than a minor annoyance of saving up a few bucks to buy the next staind album
05:59:00Phish|i could spend $500 in any given semester of college on study recordings alone
05:59:18combrainsI just agree with Llorean. I don't like the idea of not actually owning the copy of the song I have bought
05:59:39Phish|well theoretically you do, because you can burn the albums to a cd
05:59:51Phish|and they no longer have any drm on them...they function just like a normal audio cd
05:59:53LloreanAlonea: What about #Gigabeat?
06:00
06:00:06Mouser_XThe only reason this interests me at all, is because my sister downloaded a song off of iTunes (what was she thinking?), and wants to be able to play it in other media applications.
06:00:07Phish|you can rip them back to mp3 and put them on whatever device you want
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06:00:13LloreanPhish|: Yes, but if you ever rip them again, you destroy the already less-than-CD audio quality
06:00:23combrainsexactly
06:00:38combrainsthey should be selling uncompressed audio
06:00:44Phish|i will agree with that
06:00:54combrainsor at least audio encoded in a lossless manner
06:01:00redwoo1alonea - sorry got bumped
06:01:02Lloreancombrains: Mindawn sells FLAC music.
06:01:11scorchei think allofmp3.com is the only one that legally sells lossless
06:01:14AloneaLlorean: I have yet to figure out how to join that channel...er, I think I was supposed to but something else before the # thing...have nooo idea. I accidentally closed the channel.
06:01:17Lloreanscorche: And mindawn.
06:01:21scorchenever heard of mindawn
06:01:25Lloreanscorche: And allofmp3.com is no longer "legal".
06:01:31combrainsdo those sites operate outside the US
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06:01:38Alonearedwoo1: thats ok. I am sorta getting it. I found the profile file, now looking for the path thing...
06:01:39ZerapheAllofmp3 is too legal.
06:01:41scorcheLlorean: it is in russia
06:01:45Phish|i could see why they wouldnt do that 3 or 4 years ago, but now everyone has a decent broadband connection, downloading the larger files should be no issue
06:01:47redwoo1alonea - cool
06:01:51LloreanMindawn sells FLAC and Ogg/Vorbis, operates wholly legally in the US (none of the questionability of allofmp3), etc.
06:02:03Lloreanscorche: Russia's changed its laws, didn't you hear Allofmp3 is being successfully sued now?
06:02:07Phish|how big is their collection, Llorean?
06:02:13combrainsim in NZ so probly no good to me :(
06:02:16LloreanPhish|: It's moderately large, but not at all mainstream.
06:02:21scorchei did, but i heard russia wasnt doing anything about it
06:02:37Lloreanscorche: Last I heard, Russia had changed its copyright law under US pressure, and now *was* doing something about it
06:02:57scorchelast i heard, they changed it, but still didnt show any signs of wanting to stop it
06:03:03*Llorean shrugs
06:03:09LloreanEither way, it is now technically illegal in Russia.
06:03:13scorcheand they are being sued for more than Russia's GDP
06:03:42ZerapheI can't believe the Russians caved.
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06:04:03dewdude_yeah, before all the attention it had..it was nice.
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06:04:25scorchei cant believe that they are seriously being sued for that much...
06:04:32ZerapheThat makes me sick, that the RIAA can influence world affairs.
06:04:34Lloreanscorche: Either way, I've never been a fan of allofmp3 either, just because even if it was technically legal, it was ethically far too gray for my tastes.
06:04:47redwoo1alonea - did you find an editor to use?
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06:04:55LloreanZeraphe: You think AllOfMP3.com got any more money to the artists than the RIAA does?
06:05:07LloreanHonestly, if you care about the artists, the RIAA probably got them *more* money than they do.
06:05:21Alonearedwoo1: ok, I put in what the step 4 of the Cygwin Developmwnt page told me to. Now, I need to save it.
06:05:30LloreanBut there are online stores that actually give the artists a fair share of the song's cost, don't DRM the music, and aren't questionable at all.
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06:06:04scorcheLlorean: i was just putting the point out and that they are being sued for a ludicrous amount...not like i ever used them
06:06:07goffaLlorean: i'm with you there.. i'm loving lala.com
06:06:19goffayou have to make it digi yourself.. but whatever
06:06:31Lloreanscorche: It is definitely a ludicrous amount
06:06:36dewdude_i've always got the bookstore
06:06:39redwoo1alonea - which editor are you using?
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06:07:24Lloreanscorche: It could actually be near how much they'd owe if they were US based, though. But in reality, as far as I'm concerned, RIAA shouldn't be able to ask for reparations, just that they're shut down now that they're illegal.
06:07:34Alonearedwoo1: the nano thing.
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06:07:38ZerapheOne overzealous special interest group should not have sway over world trade agreements.
06:08:16Phish|i would think that the RIAA could probably be held legally accountable for harassment for some of the lawsuits they've persued
06:08:29ZerapheLlorean, didn't they sue for 10k per song or something?
06:08:30Phish|should someone decide to push hard enough, that is
06:08:36goffayeah.. they need to be shut down imo
06:08:43goffathey are not protecting artists interest anymore
06:08:58Phish|goffa: exactly. it's more like they're just trying to prove that they're right
06:09:07Phish|like a kid who has lost an argument but isn't willing to admit it
06:09:14goffathey keep 70% of the revenue they take in
06:09:40LloreanZeraphe: No clue, honestly
06:09:41goffathe intent of copywrite law was this: "you cannot make money off of someone else's work"
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06:09:55goffawell add "by calling it your own"
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06:10:16Phish|i think it would be an easier fight for the consumer to win if the majority of music sold today wasn't so recyclable
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06:10:23goffap2p is still grey because 99.999% of people aren't doing it for monetary gain
06:10:27Zeraphegoffa, if it was just "can't make money off of someone else's work" the RIAA would have to find themselves guilty.
06:10:34goffahowever that won't stand up in court
06:10:45goffathe star spangled banner is pirated :)
06:10:50LloreanIf an artist uses Mindawn, it costs $50/year to put content on there, and they get 55% of what users pay for non-exclusive content, and 75% of Mindawn-exclusive content
06:10:51ZerapheHahaha
06:10:55Alonearedwoo1, goffa: ok, I thought I had saved it but the error is still coming up...
06:10:56goffaold drinknig song
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06:11:07Phish|anymore you buy the CD that has whatever is playing on the radio today. then when the radio producers change their minds, they convince you the old stuff is useless and that you should buy new stuff
06:11:31Phish|so drm doesn't really matter for the masses because they play it for a week and forget about it anyway
06:11:57redwoo1alonea - saving in nano is ctrl+x and then it will prompt you yes or no
06:12:12goffawell riaa is counter productive because it doesn't protect art... instead its all based on what is marketed best
06:12:20Phish|anyway, i'm gonna go try to record some cello playing on my ipod and see how it comes out
06:12:20dewdude_there's a reason it's called mainstream...it's shallow and fast moving.
06:12:21Mouser_XI haven't listened to the radio in 6+ years (perhaps 10, by now...)
06:12:22Phish|be back in a bit
06:12:23Alonearedwoo1: did that. and I just checked back and the change is still there. lemme double check it is correct
06:12:27goffaand squashes arttists due to inexposure
06:12:28LloreanPhish|: Well, I see some classical on Mindawn. You should at least check it out.
06:12:37redwoo1alonea - ok
06:12:37Phish|Llorean: yeah i'm browsing through it
06:12:44Phish|will dig deeper in a bit
06:12:57LloreanI just like them because of the format choice, and how up front they are about how much the artists get.
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06:13:16combrainsthe RIAA, like Apra, only collects royalties on an artists behalf
06:13:25combrainsthey dont profit
06:13:30ZerapheBullshit.
06:13:35goffariaa proffits
06:13:38combrainsthey distribulte the royalties to the artists
06:13:49goffa30% artist 70% riaa
06:13:55goffaACTUAL figures
06:13:56ZerapheI've got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you, combrains .
06:13:57Mouser_XAt least.
06:14:06Mouser_X(I've heard it was higher for RIAA)
06:14:15ZerapheReal cheap.
06:14:22goffawell those are the ones that the riaa admits to
06:14:23combrainsok, but thats not how our APRA works
06:14:40goffaand i'm not talking apra.. i'm simply talking riaa
06:14:44goffai know nothing about apra
06:14:50Lloreancombrains: APRA has a .gov website...
06:15:13combrainsi was told that the two did the same job
06:15:15Alonearedwoo1: ok, I checked it, was missing a : , tried again and it still no worky...
06:15:27goffariaa does not include all labels .. only the 4 major
06:15:31Alonearedwoo1: unless I need to exit and come back?
06:15:37redwoo1you do
06:15:46Lloreancombrains: RIAA is probably *supposed* to do the same job.
06:15:58goffaso the independants don't see any of that and actually are hurt by riaa's control of radio and media
06:16:00combrainsyeah
06:16:37combrainswho here knows much about how music copyright works?
06:16:51goffap2p is actually good for independant artists
06:16:54Mouser_XMy brother does, but he's not here.
06:17:06goffawhat do you need to know combrains?
06:17:08combrainsgoffa, yes it is
06:17:11Mouser_XHe's a freelance musician.
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06:17:34goffathat's why the riaa wants to shut it down.. because its bad for them
06:17:35Zeraphegoffa, I agree. I've bought several CDs never would have looked twice at if it weren't for p2p/
06:17:36goffathe monopoly
06:17:37redwoo1aren't all musician's freelance?
06:17:48combrainswhen an artist makes a record, there are 2 copyrights on that record
06:17:49goffaredwoo1: unless under contract
06:18:00Alonearedwoo1, goffa: ok, in business now.
06:18:02Lloreanredwoo1: Until they're convinced to sign a contract that seems better than it is.
06:18:07goffacool Alonea
06:18:19combrainsone is on the song, and the other is on the RECORDING
06:18:19redwoo1alonea excellent
06:18:25Aloneafor some reason I cannot seem to type today. ^^;;;
06:18:33redwoo1i never can
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06:19:30combrainsthe reason that the record companies do not like p2p is not because its hurting the artists, its because they are not making mony off the copyright that they have on the recording
06:19:47combrainsotherwise known as the paralell copyright
06:20:10goffacombrains: because they are too shortsighted to see that p2p is actually free marketing
06:20:17combrainshaha
06:20:51goffahonestly every song downloaded would not equate to a sale
06:20:53redwoo1gtg bye all
06:20:58Aloneais there a paste in cygwin?
06:21:09combrainsthats how I view p2p as well - I have bought about 9 CD's as a result of being able to sample them off p2p first
06:21:18goffaexactly
06:21:21redwoo1alonea - right click
06:21:47goffayes there are people that would never buy music again if given the option
06:21:56Alonearedwoo1: nothing happens
06:22:06combrainsbut our copyright law here in NZ (and other countries) states that ANY copy is illegal
06:22:07goffabut that's not everyone
06:22:09Mouser_XMost of the stuff I'd buy, I can't get in the US anyway...
06:22:15Alonearedwoo1: oh, ok, you gotta right click near the top
06:22:17goffayeah.. we at least have fair use
06:22:23Mouser_XAnd, that which I can, is very hard to find.
06:22:25goffawhere you can back up any media
06:22:31combrainsthat is why we have all of the lawsuits
06:22:37goffawhich is also what makes p2p grey
06:22:51goffabecause i am legally allowed to download a cd i own as a form of backup
06:22:54redwoo1alonea - good luck, gtg
06:23:00Aloneathanks
06:23:03goffamost people don't know that though
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06:23:25combrainsgoffa, our govt is working on a provision for backups etc and for ripping cd's to ipod etc
06:23:42Lloreangoffa: Actually, in the US at least, you're legally allowed to *create* a backup.
06:23:44Phish|wow
06:23:46combrainshere - that backup is technically illegal
06:23:59Phish|cool....recording on my 4g actually gave me really good sound quality
06:24:04Phish|without adjusting the gain or anything
06:24:07Lloreangoffa: It's illegal for them to provide the file to you, though, so by downloading it at the very least you're an accomplice to their crime.
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06:24:34goffaLlorean: another thing that hasn't been tested in court
06:24:51goffabecause they are legally allowed to provide you with the music if you own it
06:24:56LloreanNo, they aren't.
06:25:01goffathey are not allowed to distribute it to those who don't own it
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06:25:07LloreanCopyright law explicitly states that you may *make* your backup.
06:25:14LloreanNot that anyone can provide you with it.
06:25:23combrainsbut NZ tends to go by written law whereas the US tends to go by case law
06:26:06combrainsLlorean, there was a case in the US a few years ago
06:26:06goffabut like i said.. its been untested in court
06:26:32Phish|anyone looking to buy a sony minidisc recorder?
06:26:37combrainsit involved a group called NWA who had permission to use a sample in one of their tracks
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06:27:24combrainsa movie producer then got permission from NWA to use that track in his movie but didnt go back to the owner of the sample to aske for his permission
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06:27:48combrainsthe copyright owner of the sample then sued
06:28:26Phish|well i think legally at that point, they wouldn't have to go back to the original material owner
06:28:32Phish|because they used a track that was the property of NWA
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06:28:48combrainsand the judge ruled that the use of the sample in the movie was ilegal - effectivly ruleing all sampling of copyrighted material illegal
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06:29:07combrainsbut the sample wasnt property of NWA
06:29:22ZerapheThe recording was, though.
06:29:22combrainsso legaly the producer had no right to use it
06:29:31Phish|i agree with Zeraphe on this one
06:29:55goffanot that i like dj dangermouse, but i believe that a whole genre of music was destroyed because of copywrite law
06:29:57Phish|the sample is no longer a sample of another artist's track...it is a portion of the track owned by NWA
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06:30:08LloreanIt's a sample of both.
06:30:46Mouser_XI feel this is appropriate (and funny) for the current conversation:
06:30:47Mouser_Xhttp://www.tzone.org/~llin/psf/single/str0010.mp3
06:31:01Mouser_X(This was found while getting audio data off of a Playstation game.)
06:31:04Phish|solution: destroy copyright law and allow the artists to persue whatever physical acts of violence they feel necessary
06:31:32Mouser_Xgoffa: What genre would that be?
06:31:32combrainsno, NWA didnt BUY the copyright of the owner of the sample, they simply had permission to use it in exchange for a royalty
06:31:45ZerapheUm...
06:31:48goffaMouser_X: i'm not sure there's a name
06:31:48combrainsthat is where the issue is
06:32:04Phish|combrains: correct, but you could argue that the newly created track containing the sample is entirely the property of NWA
06:32:20goffabut he took 2 copywrited albums and mixed them
06:32:29ZerapheWell, the artist of the sample had a right to sue NWA for a percentage of the royalties if that was the agreement.
06:32:38ZerapheNot the movie guys.
06:32:40goffabut now no one will be allowed to sell that
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06:32:54Alexincany updates
06:32:58Phish|right...i don't think you can hold the movie guys accountable
06:32:58combrainsill have a look for the article for you
06:33:51ZerapheNWA may have violated a contract in selling the track, but the movie producers didn't violate squat. They used something they bought fairly.
06:34:29ZerapheThe whole arena is so convoluted.
06:35:03Phish|any more it's just a question of which company wants to screw which other company in the ass
06:35:11Phish|ie. "who can we make the most money from"
06:35:21ZerapheCapitalism is the anti-renaissance.
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06:35:49ZerapheIt cheapens art, makes it shallow, meaningless.
06:35:57combrainshere is the article
06:35:58combrainshttp://www.keyboardmag.com/story.asp?sectioncode=29&storycode=4979
06:36:18ZerapheIt's not "How much of my soul can I cram into this work?" but "I wonder how many morans will but this one?"
06:36:43ZerapheNot entirely, mind you.
06:36:54*scorche checks if this really is #rockbox
06:36:55ZerapheBut enough for it to be upsetting.
06:37:28 Quit Bohboheroed ()
06:37:53*Zeraphe hops off the soapbox.
06:41:26goffawell.. svn freeze has us riled up!
06:41:28goffa:)
06:41:28Phish|anywho, i must keep my 4g
06:41:33Phish|as it gives quite good recording quality
06:41:44goffafrankenstein SMASH!!
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06:42:40Mouser_XBah...
06:42:59Phish|does rockdoom work well on the ipod 4g?
06:43:32Mouser_XSo, considering the current topic (which, I know, is a little off...) did anyone check the link I posted?
06:43:42Mouser_XI get a kick out of it everytime I hear that track...
06:44:00goffaMouser_X: yeah lol
06:44:30Mouser_X:D
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06:45:29goffai wonder what the focus group would have said about picasso's work
06:45:39goffa"can't we clean that up a bit?"
06:45:59ZerapheMouser_X, listening now. WTF?
06:46:31*combrains wanders off to have some eats
06:46:51Mouser_XAs I said, they found it when ripping PSFs (Playstation Sound Format, it's emulated audio).
06:46:53Mouser_XIt was on Vanguard Bandits, I think.
06:46:58ZerapheMouser_X, Any idea what game that's from?
06:47:16Mouser_XIt's not something you'd find, unless you were looking for it.
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06:47:33Mouser_XYah, it's Vanguard Bandits.
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06:47:58ZerapheWell, for their sake, I hope whoever found that was sober.
06:48:07Phish|though i do have a rockbox related question
06:48:23Mouser_XZeraphe: Heh.
06:48:32Phish|since i installed rockbox, the bass in my mp3s has become reduced by a bunch, but i dont have any limiters or EQs turned on that i know about
06:48:36Mouser_XAt the time that they found it, I would think they were.
06:48:58LloreanPhish|: Are you sure that the original firmware wasn't distorting bass-heavy?
06:49:20Phish|yeah
06:49:33Phish|my computer sounds about the same on the same tracks
06:49:54Phish|(sound blaster audigy 2 zs and a set of klipsch speakers)
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06:52:40Phish|also the sound out of the left earpiece is much softer than the sound out of the right
06:52:50Llorea1Phish|: Try resetting your settings.
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07:00
07:01:50Phish|Llorean: that was unsuccesful :-/
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07:01:59Phish|right channel is still significantly louder
07:02:40LloreanPhish|: And it's not in the retail firmware?
07:02:51Phish|no
07:02:54Phish|it was fine in retail firmware
07:03:02Phish|though i'll reboot once to make sure
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07:15:58Phish|i'm a big dirty liar
07:16:04Phish|it IS the same in the retail firmware
07:16:21Mouser_X:P
07:16:30Phish|is that just the way ipods are? i never noticed it before
07:16:38d47are your headphones pluged in fully ^^
07:16:50Phish|yes
07:17:01LloreanI'd check your headphones
07:17:07LloreanBut not, it's not the way iPods generally are.
07:17:09LloreanUsually the balance is fine.
07:17:13d47have you got another pair to test?
07:17:28Phish|hmmm, somewhere
07:17:29*Phish| digs
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07:18:53Phish|hmmm, my other pair is the same
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07:20:30Phish|and apparently loading rockbox fucked my 4g ipod, as it wont load the original firmware now
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07:24:23Phish|yup, 4th-gen ipod does the same
07:24:34Phish|no bass in the left earpiece
07:27:13Aloneawell, methinks I am going to enjoy rockbox in bed. so night to you all. thanks for all your wonderful help!
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07:53:32combrainswhere can I find the arm-elf-gcc xcompiler
07:56:28Alexincin my pants /joke
07:56:37combrains:)
07:56:45Alexinci have no idea
07:57:32Lloreancombrains: On a *nix system, use rockboxdev.sh (or something almost that name) in the /tools folder of the source checkout
07:57:50combrainsI ran the rockboxdev script in the tools dir but it just proceeded to down an older version of binutils and gcc
07:57:58combrainsand I dont need them
07:58:13combrainsI know that it downloads the xcompiler last
07:58:22Lloreangcc *is* the crosscompiler.
07:58:34LloreanYou build specific versions of GCC as crosscompilers.
07:58:43combrainsah
07:59:15combrainsmy bad - im new to xcompiling
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07:59:46Mouser_XHmmm. I just read that Rockbox has a maximum limit of 20,000 songs in a playlist...
07:59:58Mouser_XGenerally, that's not a big deal.
07:59:58Mouser_XEsecially since it's unlikely that I can even fit that much on my player (I have more than double that on my PC though).
08:00
08:00:58combrainsso why does it need an older version of binutils? or is that built for xcompiling also?
08:03:39Lloreancombrains: Crosscompiling as well, yes.
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08:04:16LloreanYou need, say, for the M68k ports, the M68k versions of binutils, and of gcc, and we've found specific version numbers work ideally
08:04:26combrainsok thanks
08:04:35combrainsim faily new to linux too
08:04:46combrainsnot just xcompiling
08:05:05combrainsone thing that has always evaded me - how do you edit your path
08:05:25*scorche just realized combrains means crosscompiler by xcompiler
08:06:18Lloreanscorche: Yes, he didn't just end a relationship with his compiler.
08:06:34combrainshehe
08:06:35Lloreancombrains: Depends on your linux distro, and such.
08:06:42*combrains likes shorthand
08:06:44scorchei thought he was asking for a graphical compiler of some sort
08:06:57LloreanHahaha
08:06:59LloreanComplier, for X
08:07:04scorcheaye...
08:07:38combrainsim not that 'windowsified' :)
08:07:57combrainsso anyways, how do I go about editing my path?
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08:08:45scorchecombrains: search for that on google...as Llorean said, it is specific to your distro/shell
08:09:03BHSPitMonkeyheh
08:09:24grai_combrains: you mean editing it temporarily, or editing what it's set to when you log in?
08:10:42grai_is anyone with access to the rockbox.org webserver awake?
08:13:29Lloreangrai_: Something's wrong w/ Rockbox.org?
08:13:38grai_(c'brains: please ignore the stupid question i just asked you)
08:14:09combrainsgrai_, ok I will
08:14:29grai_Llorean: nah, i'm putting together a proposal for huge improvements to it, and i'd like a tarball of all the wiki pages so i can play with organisation
08:14:41combrainsjust waiting for xcompiler to compile
08:14:52BHSPitMonkeyheh
08:14:56BHSPitMonkeythat's quite the request
08:15:28grai_(minus attachments and stuff)
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08:21:25Bagdergrai_: it is a better idea to do such things gradually, with discussions
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08:21:57Bagderotherwise you'll spend lots of time to do something big that risk it won't be accepted as a whole
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08:23:28grai_Bagder: ok, i'll send my ideas to the mailing list once i've finished writing them all down :)
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08:27:45amiconnmorning
08:30:56amiconnBagder: With the new build master and its fast network connection, maybe it would make sense to set "build preferences" per build server?
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08:31:29amiconn(depending on build speed and network uplink speed)
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08:32:54amiconnFast server + fast uplink: swcodec targets. Slower server, fast uplink: hwcodec targets. Fast server, slow uplink: simulators. Slower server, slow uplink: bootloaders
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08:33:51*amiconn also reminds of the idea of speculative concurrent builds
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08:35:53LloreanSpeculative concurrent builds?
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08:39:42blindRockbox started resetting itself on my iPod color, so i put the daily builds on it, and now it freezes randomly. any suggestions?
08:40:03amiconnLlorean: When the master has handed out all builds and some build servers are already finished but others are still working, the master could hand out unfinished builds a second time to the idling build servers
08:40:30amiconnThe master would then pick up the result from whatever server is finishing it first
08:41:25Lloreanamiconn: Ah, seems a good idea.
08:41:34amiconnThis system would avoid excessive total build times due to slow, overloaded or hanging build servers
08:41:37Lloreanblind: Have you tried using the no frequency scaling one?
08:41:47blindI don't even know what that is.
08:42:21amiconn...and it would help mking fast build servers even a bit faster: Because they tend to compile more builds, their ccache will be more up to date
08:42:56Lloreanblind: Look for Mikeage's build in the unsupported builds forum
08:43:13amiconnThere is one thing that would be required on the client side: the build script should allow cancelling a build
08:43:39amiconnThe master would cancel all concurrent build when the first build server returned the result
08:45:01blindso what is frequency scaling? will it effect anything i normally do?
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08:46:27Lloreanblind: You might see a bit less battery life. The menus might seem a bit more responsive. And the freezes *should* go away.
08:46:44blindI'll give it a go. Thanks.
08:46:47Lloreanamiconn: I like the fact that it has the potential to speed up build time, plus accommodates for failed/hanged builds.
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08:51:43pondlifeD'OH, missed Bagder!
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08:54:24blindwow, my menus are a lot more responsive now
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08:56:35Phish|hmmm
08:56:47Phish|i really need to write an NES emulator for ipod video
08:56:57Phish|though the control scheme would be very awkward
08:57:13blindI do get an error while loading it, though
08:57:19blindError accessing playlist control file?
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08:57:53Phish|wow, that was posted in completely the wrong network
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09:00
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09:04:57amiconnBagder: (I hope you read the logs) Another idea for speedup: Allow starting a new build on a build server as soon as the log is uploaded, and upload the .zip files in the background
09:05:10amiconnWould especially help fast servers with a slow uplink
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09:14:47Alexinchey phish
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09:17:52d47i want a fantastic name like Linus =/ im jealous
09:18:43LloreanI dunno, it always makes me think of the kid from Peanuts with the blanket.
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09:20:56LinusNd47: :-)
09:21:47LinusNi often get the question "are you *the* Linus"
09:22:17LinusNi'm waiting for the day mr Torvalds gets the same question about me :-)
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09:25:04SlasheriLinusN :) btw, thanks about correcting the IriverFlashing page
09:25:19LinusN:-)
09:25:47d47LinusN: ha, i guess the coding skills come stock with the name =)
09:26:45d47Linus: along with all the years of experience and learning of course
09:27:34LinusNah, that of course
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09:27:59LinusNd47: but the name gives a head start :-P
09:31:02d47my names Dylan, but i have no inclination to start singing =/
09:31:08LinusNlol
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09:47:41petururgh... stkov dircache :(
09:48:42petur(after reboot, dircache stack is at 95%)
09:49:34JdGordontime t up dircache's stack...
09:50:32peturbut not by as much as some have suggested.
09:50:34LloreanOr figure out why it needs more now.
09:50:52peturI haven't added any files in the last week
09:51:35JdGordonI have bee getting ocasionaly stkov in dircache lately also, but I dont know why, I dont remeber any changes to dircache for a while
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09:53:22peturI thought jhMikeS was trimming stack use for dircache a bit - maybe I don't remember this correctly
09:54:01JdGordonhttp://www.rockbox.org/viewcvs.cgi/firmware/common/dircache.c <- nothing for 2 weeks and even hat I doubt would cause this
09:54:24pondlifeJdGordon: You'll need to look back further than 2 weeks
09:54:25peturit's been going on for far longer than two weeks
09:54:34pondlifeI've had dircache stkov's for months
09:54:37peturI've had a stkov at least 3 weeks ago
09:54:42pondlifeVery intermittent though
09:54:47peturindeed
09:55:01peturless than once a week here
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09:55:09pondlifeI definitely had one in mid-November, and have probably had 3 since
09:55:16JdGordonok, I've only noticed them the last fornight
09:55:45pondlifeI suspect it's somehow database related.
09:56:19pondlifeDo you have auto-update (or gather runtime data) enabled?
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09:57:13JdGordonyes
09:57:44pondlifeTry turning one or both off for a week? I did and think that helped.
09:57:59pondlifeNot sure what teh interaction is though, perhaps another init sequence thing?
09:58:13pondlifeMeh, I tehed.
09:58:37peturwhere's that option?
09:58:56JdGordonthats possible... I dont think i had any problems before enabling those options..
09:59:06JdGordondircache thread is only 3k...
09:59:40pondlifepetur: General Settings > File View > Database
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10:00
10:01:18pondlifeAha, spotted something I can update to try out SVN!
10:02:29pondlifeHmm, for patches can I just do svn diff <file> i.e. no -u required?
10:02:30Slasherihmm, that sounds weird.. i have never experienced the stkov
10:02:42Slasheriit sounds like something else might be overwriting the dircache stack
10:02:51pondlifeSlasheri: How full is your hard disk?
10:02:57pondlifeHow many songs in database?
10:03:20Slasherihmm, something like 6000 songs
10:03:24pondlifeI'm on about 13000
10:03:28Slasherioh
10:03:35pondlifeMaybe there's a limit somewhere still?
10:03:46peturI'm not using database or gather runtime data _at_ _all_
10:04:00pondlifeOK, another theory dies
10:04:05Slasheripondlife: at least that shouldn't affect the dircache stack size.
10:04:29pondlifeNo, I was more thinking of some kind of memory corruption.
10:04:39Slashericould be possible
10:05:06pondlifepetur: Does the problem happen only after recording maybe?
10:05:12pondlifeFor you, I mean
10:05:21peturnope
10:05:33peturwasn't anywhere near recording
10:05:36pondlifeHmm, was wondering if it was due to file creation.
10:05:49peturI always have it when booting
10:06:08peturI mean when it happens of course
10:06:13pondlifeYes, me too. I meant after new files would have been created in the previous session.
10:06:50pondlifeDo you have any deep nesting in your directory structure? I only go about 4 deep
10:06:50peturI used it this morning on my way to work, powered down, got at my desk and powered on again: poof
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10:07:29pondlifeAh, do you shut down during playback? Maybe something is being left untidy in the playlist control?
10:08:00peturyes I always shutdown while playing
10:08:15peturtree = music/A/Artist/CDname/song.ext
10:08:24pondlifeIf I attempt a big playlist (e.g. 13000 tracks) then it takes quite a while to write playlist details, yet I have been able to shut down during the write and that knackers auto-resume.
10:08:48pondlifeAgain, only an intermittent problem though.
10:08:57peturI had a playlist running of about 50 tracks but it was still ok after reboot
10:08:59JdGordonI just created a dir, did a clean shutdown reboot and no problems
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10:09:25peturJdGordon: it's not *that* reproducable
10:09:40pondlifeA big playlist just makes it easy to spot that there's unfinished work, it might happen with a small one if you're unlucky
10:09:40JdGordoni know
10:10:37pondlifeSlasheri: Unrelated question - if I have an up-to-date database, with auto-update enabled, and I then enable auto-update, it doesn't seem to update anything until I re-init the database (or maybe reboot). Is this expected?
10:12:12pondlifeIt might just be the debug screen shows 0% progress (0 entries).
10:12:17pondlifeA reboot fixes
10:13:10Slasheripondlife: hmm, auto update should work only on reboot and after disconnecting usb cable
10:13:27Slashericurrently deleting a song inside rockbox is not updated immediately for example
10:13:40pondlifeOK, that explains it
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10:14:07Slasherithat is mainly because database needs to be committed and that can't be done after every single modification
10:14:47pondlifeNope. I thought it might catch up after a short while (like every 2 mins or something)
10:15:07pondlifeOr on the next buffer fill?
10:15:08Slasherihmm, that could be a nice feature indeed
10:15:14Slasherimaybe :)
10:15:27pondlifeWe have better callbacks now, I hear
10:15:50pondlifeShould the debug menu not say "View database info" btw?
10:16:42Slasheriah, it still says tagcache. That could be changed
10:16:49pondlifeI'm about to!
10:16:54Slasheri:)
10:17:19Slasheribut it's still internally called tagcache and debug menu is quite internal too
10:17:33pondlifeTrue, but I think UI should be consistent regardless
10:17:34Slasheribut just change it if you think it's better that way
10:17:39pondlifeAnd I want to try out SVN
10:17:43pondlife:)
10:17:44Slasherihehe :D
10:18:24pondlifeDone it, did it work?
10:18:46pondlifeScary committing stuff without a build table to look at
10:18:55Slasheritrying svn up to see.. :)
10:19:01pondlifeHmm, does SVN add CRLF to lines?
10:19:07Bagderrthe build table should come up "soon"
10:19:15pondlifeIt seems to have done... I did DOS2UNIX -U...
10:19:21Slasherii think it forces LF, but i have no idea
10:19:27Slasheriuh :/
10:19:37pondlifeUnder Cygwin here.
10:19:44scorchepondlife: what version of svn do you have?
10:19:44Slasheripondlife: your commit didn't appear to the repository
10:19:49Slasheriat least not yet
10:20:10pondlife"Committed revision 11982."
10:20:25Slasheriargh, it did.. :D
10:20:25scorcheisnt there a version number?
10:20:45Slasherinever mind, i thought i would see something like apps/tagcache.c to be changed =)
10:20:52pondlifesvn log doesn't display it yet.
10:20:52Slasheristill too sleepy now ;)
10:21:16pondlifeAh, you need to SVN UP before SVN LOG will be up-to-date.
10:21:34scorchepondlife: there was an issue with line endings with past versions of svn and cygwin...try and update to 1.4
10:22:10pondlifeI am on 1.4 now. I suffered that very problem.
10:22:35Nico_Pis it possible to display only a few revisions in svn log without having to know the rev numbers ?
10:22:35pondlifePlease can someone who's not running Windows look at debug_menu.c and see if it has any CRs in?
10:22:51amiconnB4gder: Did you see my suggestions in the log?
10:22:52pondlifeNico_P: Yes, use −−limit 5
10:22:59pondlifeor whatever number
10:23:55Nico_Ppondlife: thanks :d
10:24:09Bagderramiconn: not, I'm on a mere cgi::irc today
10:24:13Bagderrat a customer's place...
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10:24:56Nico_Pand isn't there a way to see the remote svn log ?
10:24:58pondlifeTo repeat my earlier query, for patches can I just do svn diff <file> ? -u isn't supported.
10:25:08Bagderryes
10:25:19pondlifeThanks
10:25:25Nico_Ppondlife: svn diff is already in "-u" format
10:26:05amiconnB4gder: http://www.rockbox.org/irc/current.txt 08:30..08:46 and 09:04
10:26:32Nico_Pbtw, svn diff is pleasingly instant :)
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10:26:53*pondlife likes SVN too
10:27:36*petur points to CONTRIBUTING and http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/UsingCygwinAndTortoiseSVN :)
10:27:39BagderrI have to read that at a later time
10:28:34bluebrotherwouldn
10:28:35pondlifeYes, the customer comes first, and then the build table ... ;)
10:28:39bluebrotherhmpf
10:29:04bluebrotherwouldn't it be better to not auto-convert line endings? Or is this a problem with cygwin?
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10:29:50JdGordonsvn lets files be moved while keeping their changlog right?
10:30:22Nico_PJdGordon: yes
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10:30:43JdGordon:) I can tihnk of a few files which could be moved to more logical places
10:32:33amiconnbluebrother: Depends on how a dev works. Cygwin is not the problem here, but tortoisesvn is
10:33:50amiconnTortoise changes line endings to crlf because it's a pure windows svn client.
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10:34:35peturit works ok if cygwin is also set to crlf
10:35:23bluebrotheryou can't configure tortoise to not change line endings? Uh.
10:35:44Bagderrafaik, it converts them as svn should do
10:35:54Bagderrthere's a line ending concept that it follows
10:36:33peturI tried forcing it to convert but that marked all files as changed because their property was different
10:37:02*petur wonders where Bagderr got the extra r
10:37:09Bagderron ebay!
10:37:17Bagderrreally cheap
10:37:40JdGordonhaha
10:37:40bluebrotherif some dev checks in a file with CRLF and another checks it out on a unix box those endings are converted to LF only, right?
10:38:07peturyes
10:38:07Bagderryes if line endings is set to "native"
10:38:18bluebrotheramazing what you can get at ebay ...
10:38:32peturnative = default
10:38:36bluebrotherand we're using native I assume?
10:38:43peturyes
10:38:53bluebrotherok.
10:39:04peturthe nice thing is, no more dos2unix before committing
10:39:21JdGordonwork in linux and you dont have that problem :p
10:39:27petur:p
10:39:37*petur hugs W2K
10:39:41*bluebrother doesn't want to work on Windows for Rockbox
10:39:59peturI even use DevStudio to edit RB files :p
10:40:07pondlifeMe too
10:40:11pondlifeWell, VS6
10:40:33petur.net 2003 here
10:40:59pondlifeSo, as a Cygwin user, using standard SVN, am I ok to skip DOS2UNIX in future? Or do I need to make some kind of settings change at the client end?
10:41:09*pondlife is still confused
10:41:25*petur points to http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/UsingCygwinAndTortoiseSVN :)
10:41:36pondlifeI'm not using TortoiseSVN though
10:41:42peturah
10:41:50peturyou should ;)
10:42:11peturcheck what line endings your files have
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10:42:27pondlifeLF normally, but CRLF after VS6 has had a go at them.
10:42:31peturwhen checked out with cygwin svn
10:42:33*bluebrother doesn't see a good reason for cygwin −− it can be a real PITA.
10:42:44*bluebrother hugs his linux box
10:42:54GodEaterWebI see plenty of good reasons for it
10:42:56crashdbluebrother: choice, im guessing.
10:42:59pondlifeIt's slow, but it's what I have. Have no space for a second box in my cupboard here.
10:43:04GodEaterWebif you don't have the opportunity to run linux
10:43:11peturpondlife: you must continue with dos2unix then
10:43:14*amiconn prefers using cygwin even though he already has a linux box, and knows linux is faster at compiling
10:43:31bluebrotherpondlife, you're also living in a cupboard? me too :)
10:43:34pondlifeSo there's no sort of auto-DOS2UNIX built into SVN
10:43:38pondlifeDarn
10:43:47JdGordon... on the topic of dircache... has it frozen in the sim for anyone else on boot?
10:43:49pondlifeTarnation, in fact.
10:44:19*petur whispers TortoiseSVN to pondlife :p
10:44:31pondlifeJdGordon: Yes
10:44:43pondlifeI just enabled it in my sim and locky-locky-locky up
10:44:57JdGordondamn, ok... at least I know its not my changes then :p
10:45:45amiconnI would have 2 problems if I would switch to linux. (1) Finding an equivalent editor to ConTEXT. (2) Finding a way to easily and efficiently access a _graphical_ session via the network, like it is possible with remote desktop on windows
10:46:15d47vncviewer for remote desktop
10:46:24pondlifepetur: Does TortoiseSVN work at the command line. I'd prefer that to a GUI.
10:46:26bluebrotherfor (2) I use NX, works quite well for me
10:46:56*petur wonders why you need commandline when you've got a nice gui
10:46:56d47ive never used context so i cant really compare
10:47:08pondlifeJust a preference
10:47:15BagderrI do emacs and ssh
10:47:22amiconnd47: VNC isn't nearly as efficient as rdp
10:47:35pondlifeI like command histories and batch jobs!
10:47:40peturbut indeed, cygwin SVN won't work ok with TortoiseSVN I think... must check at home
10:47:49amiconnbluebrother: I've read about NX, but I have no idea how to install and configure it
10:48:00amiconnI couldn't find debian-amd64 packages either
10:48:20JdGordonvnc isnt as efficient as rdp?
10:48:23bluebrotherstrange, FreeNX is mostly (completely?) bash
10:48:26d47amiconn: i find it works perfectly
10:49:00JdGordonreal linux geeks dont need a gui anyway! cli ftw!
10:49:05amiconnTry it over a modem or isdn connection
10:49:08d47heh
10:49:08peturrdp is *way* faster
10:49:08GodEaterWebamiconn: what about linux's RDP client ?
10:49:14GodEaterWebI use that all the time
10:49:25amiconnGodEaterWeb: I'm talking about the server side
10:49:32GodEaterWeboh I see
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10:49:43amiconnMy remote client would practically always be windows
10:50:03d47well, mine will allways be linux, and so i use something like vnc
10:50:21JdGordonvnc with compressions at 800x600 and 16bit colour is fine even over a slow connection
10:50:24GodEaterWebI've not used xvnc for a while (as a server) but when I did I thought it was fine
10:50:26d47but i rarly need a graphical client anyway
10:50:56GodEaterWebit's certainly more responsive than the windows equivalent
10:51:52 Quit d47 ("bi bi")
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10:52:08GodEaterWebinstalling freenx is easy too
10:52:18GodEaterWebemerge nxserver-freenx ;)
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10:54:48bluebrotherI used freenx for xga resolution on a slow dsl line (128k upstream), worked really great
10:57:29JdGordonhow do i nuke all changes in my local tree?
10:57:44GodEaterWebrm -rf ?
10:58:03JdGordon... without having to grab a new tree
10:58:38LinusNthegeek: i received your wreck
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10:59:05LinusNthegeek: thanks
10:59:51JdGordonsvn revert -R . for future reference..
11:00
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11:07:17dan_aI phoned Austriamicrosystems earlier... it seems like it might be possible to get a datasheet under a less restrictive NDA
11:08:02pregloweh
11:08:18preglowah less restrivitve _NON-DISCLOSURE_ agreement?
11:08:24preglows/ah/a/ :>
11:08:56Lloreanpreglow: Well, NDA's can just mean "Don't show people the datasheet" but allow you to publish code based off it. They still call those NDAs.
11:09:22preglowin which case i'll revert to calling _them_ breaindead
11:09:23LloreanWe could get lucky
11:09:28LloreanHehehe
11:09:36preglowbreandaid, that's a nice one
11:09:52Bagderrdan_a: cool!
11:09:55dan_apreglow: Yes. I'm waiting to see what they come back with, but I'm going to propose the current one with a clause saying that it's explicitly OK to write code based on the I2C and associated timing data
11:09:56preglowfingers bloody cold
11:10:23*bluebrother just read that knoppix includes nx server. Nice for testing :)
11:10:32***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
11:12:13JdGordonIs it possible to traverse the file tree in rockbox without using the tree_context? ... but still use dircache if its enabled?
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11:13:11dan_aDo any of the core devs have any guidance for what would be acceptable in terms of an NDA? Or is it OK as long as I am allowed to write GPL'd code based on it?
11:14:19Lloreandan_a: Technically you can write GPLed code under the current one, it just then prevents you from distributing the binary or code after you do so. :-P
11:14:36pondlifeNDA+GPL+public release would seem unlikely to me.
11:16:05pondlifeMaybe if the code has no comments ;-p
11:16:19Bagderrdan_a: it is really mostly up to the one who signs the NDA since it is a contract between the signer and the company you sign for
11:17:00pondlifeIn other words, you'd need to ask your own lawyer :(
11:17:32dan_aEwww... expensive! :(
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11:24:06Bagderrif you get something from AWS in that direction, I think we can have someone look at it
11:24:11BagderrforRockbox funding
11:24:29Bagderrwe have used both swedish and US lawyers already before
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11:26:01dan_aBagderr: Thanks.
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11:34:59inorderis there any chance that this patch could be incorporated, it would be nice to have files numerically sorted http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/2890
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11:36:41Lloreaninorder: All that patch does is add code to help users who don't properly name their files
11:37:45inordernope i do properly name my files, but if one has lots of various albums >10 it puts them first, not nice, IE explorer lists them correctly why not rockbox
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11:38:13peturI wouldn't mind if numerics were always sorted like in the patch - no setting needed
11:38:29preglowinorder: then the files aren't properly named
11:38:34Lloreaninorder: Properly named means 01-09 then 10-99, or 001-099 then 100-999
11:38:35preglowbut i don't think i'd mind either
11:38:40Mode"#rockbox -o preglow " by preglow (n=thomjoha@rockbox/developer/preglow)
11:40:17inorderI have lots of my own compilations, called simply various 1, various 2 etc, basically my own best of, there is no other way to properly name them llorean
11:40:56JdGordonis there much speed difference between a recursive and a iterative function on the targets? (the iterative would need about 5 arrays to acts as stacks)
11:41:01Lloreanvarious 01, various 02... various 10, various 11?
11:41:10inorderoh jeez
11:41:21LloreanWell, you said there is *no* other way.
11:41:28preglowinorder: rockbox isn't the only thing that doesn't like that, you know
11:41:35preglowthat's the reason that is how it's usually done
11:41:39Lloreaninorder: As well, the patch specifically says it works on *leading* numbers.
11:41:53safetydanjust be glad it's not asciibetical sorting by default
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11:42:47inorder1it looks so untidy with leading zeros
11:43:07Lloreaninorder1: The patch you linked only claims to work on leading numbers anyway, it wouldn't fix your case.
11:43:31LloreanBut I also don't want to make Rombox *more* broken because "it looks untidy"
11:43:43inorder1here we go, anyway thanks
11:43:46 Part inorder1
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11:43:51preglowgeez
11:44:11GodEaterWebCouldn't you do....oh, he's gone.
11:44:28GodEaterWebwas going to suggest : Various <space><space>1 etc.
11:44:40 Quit jba (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
11:44:44GodEaterWebI think that would work too, and would look less "untidy"
11:44:56LloreanI like leading zeroes, honestly.
11:45:00GodEaterWebthough leading zeroes don't personally bother me
11:45:04LloreanWith fixed width font, it looks very consistent.
11:45:17GodEaterWebI agree, but it might have appealed to him more
11:45:23GodEaterWeboh well
11:45:27GodEaterWebthe impatience of youth
11:45:32LloreanHeh
11:45:47LloreanI'm not against the patch in any way, except Rombox already doesn't work, and that makes me a sad Llorean
11:48:12 Quit Xerion (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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11:57:18preglowi don't really like rombox blocking stuff
11:57:30preglowit's going to be a persistant problem
11:58:31LloreanYou could have a feature freeze, once more just focusing on Archoses, and try to get Rombox down to size without removing features, then release a "Final" Rombox.
12:00
12:01:07preglowi guess so, but do we really have enough archos users left that we'll have enough input to "finalise" it?
12:01:20pregloware there really any big issues left, or do we just need to optimise?
12:01:31pondlifeJdGordon: What's left to do on the settings patch? Just voice?
12:01:41safetydanlooking at fs#6501, could we maybe just try parsing the vorbis date tag as iso 8601?
12:02:00safetydanMost places seem to recommend that your date tags be in that format. If it fails, we're no worse off than before.
12:02:32JdGordonpondlife: no, each setting needs to be checked to make sure its actually correct, and then if it needs anything done before/after loadin the setting screen for it
12:03:31Lloreanpreglow: I think it's more or less "Get voice working on every screen, get Rombox to fit again", then maybe stick a bookmark at that date to backport occasional bug fixes if there's something that got overlooked, but that's the last Rombox version.
12:04:27Nico_Pwhat is rombox ?
12:04:37linuxstbRockbox running from ROM on the Archos devices.
12:04:59pondlifeAnd maybe on the Irivers too?
12:05:03linuxstbIt's now too big to fit in ROM...
12:05:14Lloreanpondlife: The irivers have plenty of ROM space
12:05:25linuxstbPotentially, although the gain isn't that much - irivers have lots of RAM.
12:05:32Nico_Pok... so it's the targets that have been having errors since some time, is that it ?
12:05:45LloreanNico_P: For many people it's the best way to run rockbox on Archos, since it frees up more audio buffer and boots quickly
12:05:45linuxstbArchos devices have 2MB RAM, so moving Rockbox to ROM gains a large percentage back.
12:06:15Nico_Pand what about this ? http://www.rockbox.org/mail/archive/rockbox-dev-archive-2006-08/0080.shtml is it still planned ?
12:06:31pondlifeI stopped updating my Archos once Rombox failed to build.
12:06:34pondlifeThen I sold it
12:06:53linuxstbNico_P: No-one has mentioned it since (that I've noticed).
12:07:19Nico_Pmaybe Bagderr and LinusN just forgot about it...
12:07:24pondlifeSo no-one objects....
12:07:36*scorche gets by by disabling tagcache
12:07:38pondlifeAh, just got a STKOV: DIRCACHE
12:07:45preglowhmm
12:07:53preglowother people have gotten that lately too
12:07:59*JdGordon would kill for malloc about now :'(
12:08:07pondlifeSo we were discussing a bit earlier
12:08:19*linuxstb would kill JdGordon for malloc... :)
12:08:23pondlifeI'm also getting a stray CPU boost I think
12:08:23Nico_Ppondlife: you're not using the cuesheet patch by any chance ?
12:08:35pondlifeNo, straight SVN on H340
12:08:42Nico_PJdGordon: what do you want malloc for ?
12:08:43Juice^which module should i add in the setup for cygwin to have svn support?
12:08:57pondlifesvn
12:09:06preglowLlorean: but yeah, i'd actually not be opposed to such a freeze, i'm just very sceptical as to how much it'll help...
12:09:21Lloreanpreglow: Well, help in what way?
12:09:24JdGordonNico_P: so more than one directory can be opened at a time without causing some very odd behaviour
12:09:30preglowwork, as in have people do the work needed
12:09:41Lloreanpreglow: Ah, that's true.
12:09:41Juice^pondlife: subversion as its named in the setup?
12:09:58preglowoptimising for size and making voice work everywhere isn't very fun coding
12:10:01preglowat least not for me
12:10:11pondlifeJuice^: Ah, yes probably. I may have remembered wrong.
12:10:12preglowand i'm actually still in it for fun, heh
12:10:31*pondlife thinks optimising and bug-fixing is the most fun part
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12:10:45linuxstbJdGordon: More than one directory opened where?
12:11:42JdGordonIm trying to get a directory walker going again, the problem is because it uses the tree_context, if your in the tree while its running everything goes wrong
12:11:56Nico_Ppondlife: you've worked on playback.c, right ?
12:11:58Lloreanpreglow: Well, a Rombox-only could be forked, where people could commit Rombox opts/fixes until it fits, but don't have to, and then the lift on caring about Rombox leaves the main fork.
12:12:00Juice^pondlife: yep. has to be
12:12:38pondlifeNico_P: yes, a while back now
12:12:43pondlifeWhy do you ask?
12:12:51 Quit miepchen^schlaf (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
12:12:59preglowLlorean: yeah, and then i seriously doubt anything will happen
12:13:04pondlifeH320 definitely has a spare CPU boost going on. :(
12:13:17Nico_Ppondlife: because i'm getting headaches with it :)
12:13:21preglowbtw, did slasheri make rombox work in flash for iriver?
12:13:25pondlifeHaha, it does that
12:13:29Lloreanpreglow: But at that point, it's not anyone's fault for continually breaking it, it's instead anyone's fault for not working on it.
12:14:00preglowLlorean: good point, good point
12:14:51Nico_Ppondlife: with JdGordon we've been talking about metadata-on-buffer... we'd like to make it happen but lack knowledg of the playback engine
12:15:12pondlifeNico_P: IMHO, the whole of playback needs redoing; it's overly complex. It needs ALL the data to be in the buffer.
12:15:34Nico_Pwhat do you mean by "all the data" ?
12:16:02pondlifeThere are some horrible bugs in there at the moment. If you want to get your head round it, try making a build that will only buffer 3 tracks, rather than 32. You will find many things fail to stay in sync.
12:16:06Lloreanpreglow: Honestly, if it doesn't get worked on when it *can* be, then it clearly shouldn't have been a barrier to continuing work in the first place. So a fork is ideal either way.
12:16:56linuxstbpondlife: How do you feel about a complete rewrite of the playback code?
12:16:59pondlifeNico_P: There are several structures to keep in sync at the moment. I would hope they could be included as part of the buffered data (i.e. a header block) so as to avoid a need for so many pointers.
12:17:13 Quit petur ("lunch")
12:17:14Nico_Ppondlife: lostlogic tried to rework the playback engine but apparently he didn't quite finish the work... are you suggesting it should be rewritten from scratch ?
12:17:19preglowLlorean: yes, sounds reasonable
12:17:33pondlifeNot from scratch, but fairly fundamentally reviewed.
12:18:10pondlifeThe thread swapping needs to be simplified, and the data handling needs work.
12:18:16Nico_Pthat could be fun, but i kinda doubt it's a one man work... unless you want to do it ?
12:18:26pondlifejhMikeS has some good ideas
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12:18:42Mikachuand playback.c needs to be less than 3710 lines :)
12:18:47pondlifeI'd love to do it, but I honestly don't have the time to organise it. That's what's needed.
12:19:04pondlifeSomeone to work out a strategy and subdivide the monolith a bit.
12:19:10*JdGordon puts hand up to help in the gruntwork if needed
12:19:14Nico_Pmaybe you could lay down a few ideas on a wiki page ?
12:19:31pondlifeThen we can all do a bit and point the fingers when someone's interface fails to behave!
12:19:53Nico_Ppersonally, what i lack is global understanding of what gooes on in this code
12:19:58pondlifeMe too!!
12:20:21jbahey guys
12:20:23pondlifeI think both lostlogic (Mr Buffering) and jhMikeS (Mr PCM) are best qualified.
12:20:25Nico_Pand other things too, of course, but that's the main one :)
12:20:34jbaShonky, heloo?
12:20:56pondlifeSomeone else was going to pop up a wiki, can't recall who, but IRC logs from the past fortnight will help.
12:21:01Nico_Pwell lostlogic doesn't seem to have much time ATM
12:21:20pondlifeI am happy to try to answer questions, but can't do much more at the moment I'm afraid.
12:21:44pondlifeReal Life and Paid Work are slowly strangling me.
12:21:54*pondlife forgot the (TM)s.
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12:23:32pondlifeI would like to see the video stuff using the standard audio playback too, if that's remotely practical.
12:24:32pondlifeHow do I search the IRC logs, and not include any other stuff (e.g. mailing list)?
12:25:34Nico_Puse site:http://www.rockbox.org/irc/ in the google search
12:26:19linuxstbpondlife: What do you mean by "standard audio playback"?
12:26:41pondlifeAFAIK, mpegplayer doesn't use playback.c.
12:26:51pondlifeWhy not be able to include videos in a playlist?
12:28:19pondlifeOR is the entire audio buffer required for video use?
12:28:52linuxstbpondlife: Yes, in the long term I would like video playback to be integrated into the playback engine. But it needs to work standalone first...
12:29:40pondlifeSomeone (jhMikeS, I think) had some very good ideas about sorting out playlist handling - playback.c shouldn't be doing any of that really.
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12:30:38pondlifeWe need to specify and limit the functionality of each module. As I see it,playback.c should be responsible for buffering and debuffering only.
12:31:11pondlifeVoice should be mixed in seperately to PCM, so shouldn't be in there at all.
12:32:07Nico_Ppondlife: have you found who was wanting to do that wiki page ?
12:32:10pondlifeNeed to work out some simpler interfaces. And consider MASCODEC unification, maybe (although that's getting less important daily).
12:32:30pondlifeNico_P: No, I can't find out how to search only the IRC logs.
12:33:57grai_pondlife: blah site:rockbox.org -"mail archive"?
12:34:15pondlifeCheers!
12:34:19Mikachusite:www.rockbox.org/irc
12:34:21Mikachualso works
12:34:41Nico_Ppondlife: you can use the standard google search box on the bottom of the site's sidebar... if you replace 'site:http://www.rockbox.org' by 'site:http://www.rockbox.org/irc/' it will only search on IRC logs
12:34:48preglowideally, integrating mascodec into playback.c should be trivial
12:35:16preglowbut if playback.c also does stuff like playlist handling, i can see why that is not so...
12:35:48pondlifeIt just needs a good disentangling, for want of a better word.
12:36:11Mikachuyou're not looking for this? http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/SoftwareCodecPlayback
12:36:47JdGordonplayback shuoldnt do playlist handling tho...
12:37:17pondlifeCorrect. It doesn't do much, but it does stuff like "play next track"
12:37:33pondlifeWhich should be the same as "play track 08" or whatever.
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12:37:58pondlifei.e. handled at a higher level, with less interface
12:38:29Nico_Ppondlife: it still needs to know in which order to play the files, doesn't it ?
12:38:42pondlifeYes, for buffering.
12:39:50JdGordondosnt playback only need to know which tracks to buffer next? and then be able to skip around inside the buffer? i
12:40:29pondlifeThe actual playback should be continuous in buffer sequence (with gapless), unless it's told to switch tracks.
12:41:14pondlifeHow well does it handle buffering of a shuffled playlist across multiple folders at the moment?
12:44:34LloreanIf you have an actual static playlist, shuffled, that contains multiple folders, they don't seem to present any problem from a user perspective at least
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12:45:37pondlifeBut does it buffer them all, or is there a hard disk read when it changes folders?
12:45:55LloreanI believe it buffers them, though I can't say with a certainty
12:46:00pondlifeIt's probably ok, I'm just thinking aloud here.
12:46:31LloreanI'm basing this on an "I don't remember spinups on track skips immediately after filling the buffer"
12:47:05Bagderrfolders or not makes no different when used in a single playlist
12:47:14amiconnLlorean: For some archos targets rombox still works: Ondio FM (very tight), Ondio SP, and Player
12:47:18pondlifeGood
12:47:22Lloreanamiconn: Yeah, it's just the recorder.
12:47:39amiconnRecorder FM/V2 and V1 are currently above limit
12:47:44JdGordonwell... if you want to destry rombox on the ondios, enable a-b repeat
12:48:01amiconnNot on the SP I'd expect
12:48:04Nico_PBagderr: has this : http://www.rockbox.org/mail/archive/rockbox-dev-archive-2006-08/0080.shtml been dropped ?
12:48:22*pondlife must have imagined the whole wiki-for-playback-reworking conversation as he can't find it in the logs :(
12:48:24pixelmaJdGordon: I wondered why it adds about 1200 bytes anyways
12:48:28amiconnOn the FM, it's currently enough to enable backlight support to push rombox over the edge
12:49:00amiconnBut there's at least one method to regain a few KB without removing any feature
12:49:09JdGordonpixelma: I dunno... 1200 bytes isnt that much tho... it could possibly be optimized, but who knows..
12:49:19 Quit jba (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
12:49:44JdGordonthe one method isnt heavy optimization is it?
12:50:22Slasheripreglow: almost, bootloader and new flashing plugin still needs to be committed. After that, rombox works
12:50:24Bagderrnico_p: I guess so
12:50:38pixelmabtw. JdGordon: (another story) I really think that button actions for plugins is more of a problem than a help, because most plugins need different solutions for intuitive controls (the use of the scroll wheel for example)
12:51:10amiconnSlasheri: Don't forget a check that prevents flashing when running from rom. Otherwise it'd crash when using core functions from the plugin...
12:51:17amiconnrockbox_flash does that
12:51:22JdGordonpixelma: for games yes, I agree, but the utility apps shouldnt need their own keymaps
12:51:40Slasheriamiconn: the same check is already present
12:51:46amiconnok
12:51:49Slasheriso that shouldn't happen
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12:53:52pixelmaJdGordon: yes there might be a few - but I saw that in bubbles (while trying to put a Sansa version together)
12:54:35JdGordonok
12:56:17roolkuJdGordon: while working on keys and plugins - could you please fix that the first button gets eaten after exiting certain plugins?
12:57:11JdGordonwhich?
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12:58:18roolkumost I would say. Starting from the top bounce, brickmania
12:58:24Nico_Pi have a patch that should be ready for inclusion in SVN if it's a wanted (which it seems to be until viewports are implemented) : http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/4783#comment12293
12:59:11Nico_Pfully compatible with all current WPS in SVN
12:59:52roolkububbles is okay, but calculator is not, chessbox works, ...
13:00
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13:01:03JdGordoncalc is fine here
13:01:58JdGordonroolku: which target you using?
13:02:24roolkuJdGordon: h120
13:02:25JdGordonNico_P: I like the patch, but wait till the build system i working again
13:02:34JdGordonok, hmmm
13:02:38Nico_PJdGordon: ok
13:03:37JdGordonroolku: Im on the h300, so shold be the same, and I dont tihnk ive ever noticed buttons bein eaten after leaving plugins... ill look out for it tho now
13:04:38roolkuJdGordon: thanks, I reported it in your thread in the forums some time ago
13:05:34roolkuroolku: maybe its not more than have checking systematically - but its the once I use more often and it is very irritating
13:05:57roolku.. than half, ...
13:06:20Mikachuroolku: it's not to do with first press turns on backlight?
13:06:20roolku...ones...
13:06:24*roolku can't spell
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13:07:19roolkuMikachu: I don't think I have that option on a h120? and if so it is off
13:07:27Mikachuokay
13:07:53JdGordonroolku: you do have the option.... goto the wps, let the backlight turn off then see if it eats the navi button
13:08:27roolkuit is set to "No"
13:09:09JdGordonoh well... that would have been a nice answer
13:10:11daurnhey JdGordon
13:10:14roolkucould it be that some trigger on releasing and some on pressing the off button?
13:10:33***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
13:10:42JdGordonhey daurn, sup?
13:11:00daurni'm bored & tired
13:11:04JdGordonroolku: it shhuo,dnt be,
13:13:41JdGordonroolku: is there another way to exit calc than off?
13:15:25roolkuJdGordon: not that I know off - I noticed it doesn't matter if you leave brickmania via the off button or via the menu - button gets eaten
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13:16:21JdGordonsorry, I cant reproduce it at all, tried brickmania and calc, both from the tree and the browse plugins menu
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13:17:47roolkuJdGordon: you press off in brickmania, wait until you are in the menu, press down and the bar goes down? Very odd.
13:18:22JdGordonyep
13:18:54roolkuI'll see if I can reproduce it in the simulator
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13:19:49Nico_Proolku: it works for me too, no problem here
13:23:17*JdGordon cant stay awake anymore... cyaz
13:23:24 Quit JdGordon ("Konversation terminated!")
13:30:05*GodEaterWeb ponders whether we should have a bit in the iPod install manual at the end of the bootloader install section saying "if you got a Rockbox -1 Error after this, go back and read section 2.2.2 again".
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13:31:23GodEaterWebthere's also a typo in the booloader section, we have "isntallation" instead of "installation"
13:31:52pondlifeAnyone fancy updating http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/RockboxPCMPlayback - LinusN started it, but maybe lostlogic or jhMikeS could do some? The crossfade and voice stuff is still mysterious to me.
13:33:00pondlifelostlogic: Around?
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13:34:24senabis there any reasonb why the source has grown about 700k overnight? http://www.rockbox.org/dl.cgi?bin=source
13:34:49pondlifeI'm probably in the wroing time zone, but let me know if you'd object to http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/SoftwareCodecPlayback being cleared of all the bug reports. The outstanding stuff should be on Flyspray - I'll check first.
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13:39:40Bagderrsenab: the new fonts I guess
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13:42:44senab@badgerr: oh ye, forgot about them
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13:45:50bluebrotherGodEaterWeb: typo fixed :)
13:46:03GodEaterWebcool :)
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13:50:11roolkuNico_P: what player do you have? I just downloaded the latest daily, reset settings and it still is a problem on both, my h120 and my h140
13:50:32Nico_PH320
13:51:21roolkuanyone here with a h1x0 who could test this before it drives me nuts. :)
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13:59:39PaulJamdo aac files play gapless in rockbox?
14:00
14:01:25GodEaterWebThe wiki still says it's running at less than 50% of real time - so I think it would be difficult to tell =/
14:02:03roolkuJdGordon: if you read the logs - it works fine in the sim
14:08:09pixelmaroolku: stupid question maybe - is there the slightest chance that it has to do with your hardware mods?
14:09:16roolkupixelma: no the problem started immideately after JdGordons button action implementation - no hardware mod at this time :(
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14:10:58roolkuI am now trying to cut down calc to its essentials to see when the problem goes away (if it does)
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14:15:52Ferrum]hi alL!
14:16:04Ferrum]I have one question
14:16:53Ferrum]how can i install patches? I want 2 install album art patch for zenv2 theme
14:16:53Ferrum]))
14:17:08linuxstb_PaulJam: No, I don't think Rockbox removes any leading or trailing samples in AAC files. Is there even a standard for that?
14:17:55GodEaterWebFerrum]: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/WorkingWithPatches
14:18:09peturFerrum]: the patches apply to the source which you must then compile
14:18:37GodEaterWebFerrum]: or download an unsupported build which already features album art
14:19:39Ferrum]GodEaterWeb: where i can get them?
14:19:51peturlook in the forum
14:20:16Ferrum]thnx)))
14:20:26petur)))
14:20:30preglowsnoooow
14:20:30preglowfinally
14:20:35peturoh
14:20:35 Part Ferrum]
14:20:56*petur packs some beers and heads over to preglow
14:21:29PaulJamlinuxstb_: i dont't know. i just noticed that some m4a files that play without gaps on a friends ipod 5.5g (with OF) have gaps on my h300 (with RB). and i was wondering why.
14:21:49Juice^preglow: where are you located?
14:21:55preglownorway
14:22:08preglowthis is the mildest winter ever, hence my joy
14:22:16Juice^oh which city?
14:22:44preglowoslo
14:22:48Juice^i see
14:22:49norbusanpah, snow, what is this??? Even on 3500m in the alps there is not a lot. Pahhh. Damned.
14:22:56peturthis winter sucks: it's 14 degrees celcius here, 10 above normal (in .be)
14:23:05Juice^im in stavanger... still no sign of snow here :O
14:23:11norbusanAt least ice clmbing on the high walls is not too bad.
14:23:20preglowJuice^: supposed to come anyway
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14:23:47preglowanyway, i'm outta here
14:23:48preglowsnow > code
14:24:19*grai just sent a big fat email to rockbox-dev
14:24:26*grai hopes the bigwigs follow that list
14:24:29*grai goes to bed
14:24:33preglowthey do
14:24:34Juice^but my gf reported snow in the mountains of bergen
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14:25:28graip'glow: luvley
14:26:00Juice^preglow, kast noen snballer for meg
14:26:08Bagderranother "lets change wiki" post...
14:26:12preglowJuice^: damn straight
14:26:41GodEaterWebdoes he really think we're all sitting here now slapping our foreheads at point 1)
14:26:46GodEaterWebI think it's easier said than done!
14:26:49Juice^preglow: remember to put some stones inside them :o hehehe
14:27:00Juice^preglow: and dont eat the yellow snow :o
14:27:00Bagderrgodeater: most of his points is a lot easier said than done
14:27:13Bagderrsince these things evolve over long time
14:27:16GodEaterWebI thought I'd start with my critique at the beginning ;)
14:28:06preglowJuice^: but that's the tastiest snow!
14:28:19preglowi figure someone spilt beer on it
14:28:33Juice^preglow: haha :)
14:28:39preglowanywho, later
14:28:43Juice^later
14:29:15linuxstb_PaulJam: I _think_ itunes does its own thing with AAC files - we would need to investigate what that is, and whether the gapless information is in the tags, or only in the itunesdb.
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14:30:01linuxstb_PaulJam: Lear may know more - he's done a lot of work on the mp4/AAC parsing.
14:30:17GodEaterWebI think anyone suggesting replacing the wiki with "Product X" should just do it themselves, and show us their great effort afterwards
14:30:29GodEaterWebit's not like the content is secret
14:30:52 Part Ferrum]
14:32:07roolkujdGorden: even the helloworld plugin has the problem. :(
14:35:37bluebrotherroolku: does the OF behave correctly? (you're talking about buttons, right?)
14:37:10roolkubluebrother: don't know I don't have it anymore. :) But it is really specific to plugins - after exiting certain plugins the first keypress is not executed
14:38:16bluebrotheronly the first keypress? I think this is known
14:38:38bluebrotherand caused by the actions code −− plugins using actions work (afaik)
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14:42:23pixelmaI don't have this problem on my Ondio (at least the ones mentioned and never noticed myself)... the only plugins that use button actions are bubbles and metronome
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14:44:26roolkubluebrother: well, it doesn't seem to be known by jdGordon. :(
14:44:40roolkubluebrother: some of the old ones work and some don't
14:45:25roolkupixelma: bubbles and metronome are fine but so is for instance logo
14:46:15roolkuI am also very surprised that the h3x0 are ok
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15:02:28Nico_Pi updated http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/KnowledgeMap... though i probably made a lot of mistakes/omissions
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15:29:45markun_Nico_P: do you think I should add a separate unicode entry and put my name there?
15:30:07Nico_Pwhy not
15:30:52Nico_Poriginally it's not my idea but i thought it was a good one and got tired of seeing it empty :)
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15:41:34nls_webIs there any category for obsolete wikipages or do they just get renamed to WhateverObsolete ?
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15:43:47webguest69Hi, I'm DeanMurray. Just registered on the Rockbox TWiki to add a tutorial I wrote about managing music on Rockbox. Can I have write permissions?
15:44:39nls_websure
15:45:48webguest69DeanMurray again... Thanks.
15:45:59nls_webdone
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15:48:36Bagderrhm, so the newer Sansa version uses a different file name on the mi4
15:49:54Bagderrit'll make the rockbox install instruction funnier... :-P
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15:54:02nls_webBagderr: Would you rename http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/DatabaseV2 to DatabaseV2Obsolete or something similar, I don't have rename access...
15:56:52PaschalNeePossibly Dumb question coming here .... what was the original source of the RockBox firmware? Was it a fork of some Linux variant or was it done from scratch? I check the FAQ/History pages but to no avail.
15:57:32daurnimatorscrath
15:58:17Bagderrwe can just as well remove it, can't we?
15:58:21 Nick Everybody|Determ is now known as Everybody|away (n=everybod@harpo.demon.co.uk)
15:58:45Bagderrpaschal: the original rockbox was nothing
15:58:49Bagderrthen we wrote it ;-)
15:59:53PaschalNeeAnd very nice it is too - just have it up on my Nano. Thanks
16:00
16:00:27nls_webBagderr: sure (remove) :)
16:01:50 Quit PaschalNee ()
16:02:50Bagderrand its gone
16:03:12BagderrTagDatabase too I guess
16:04:36Bagderror possibly that should just be modified to reflect reality
16:04:52Bagderrthere's a bunch of existing links to it
16:05:59GodEaterWebBagder - can you reset Wiki passwords? I hit the "forgot my password" link without actually checking I'd set up an email address to have the new one sent to.
16:06:04*GodEaterWeb waits for his gold star badge
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16:08:50Bagderryes, I can do that but not right now
16:09:23GodEaterWebno rush - I did it days ago ;)
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16:11:52Stalwartsvn \o/
16:12:05Stalwartwill rss of changelog be available?
16:12:12Stalwarti want to track development
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16:15:02Bagderrfeel free to make one
16:16:15Mikachuyou can tell 'svn log' to output xml
16:16:41Bagderrand there are svn2rss scripts "out there"
16:17:41Bagderrand you can get an rss feed from the commit mailing list
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16:23:09StalwartBagderr: link please?
16:23:18roolkuJdGordon: I think I found the cause of the problem of the eaten buttons - I have written it up in your thread in the forums
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16:37:01bluebrotherStalwart: look at the gmame archive for rockbox-cvs
16:37:54perl|workhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/01/11/iphone-and-lg-ke850-separated-at-birth/
16:38:00perl|workinteresting
16:39:51Stalwartiphone isn't what i expected so i'm looking at symbian powered phones now
16:40:06*GodEaterWeb hugs his N73
16:40:07fasmaieperl|work: You have a gigabeat, right?
16:40:11Stalwartanyone know good 300$-400$ symbians?
16:40:39 Quit Xerion (" ")
16:40:44StalwartGodEaterWeb: is it expensive?
16:40:52GodEaterWebdidn't cost me a bean
16:41:04perl|workfasmaie yes, 2
16:41:12GodEaterWebwell - not up front anyway - it was free with the contract
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16:41:21Stalwartdamn
16:41:31fasmaieDo you use the buttonlight CVS build, by ay chance?
16:41:38fasmaieany
16:41:41Stalwartin .lv we have only ~200$ phones by contract
16:41:41perl|worki do
16:41:51GodEaterWebmove to the UK then ;)
16:42:06fasmaieif you have a build for an F40, would you be able to send it to me?
16:42:14StalwartGodEaterWeb: i can't, i need to study
16:42:32GodEaterWebwell, I didn't really expect you to pack your suitcase right now
16:42:42perl|workfasmaie oh im at work, dont have anything at hand
16:42:49Stalwarti want to move somewhere when i finish high school
16:42:49fasmaieNo problem
16:42:54fasmaieThanks anyway
16:43:09perl|workstill no latest builds on the site?
16:43:14fasmaieNope
16:43:30GodEaterWebthey look like they go for about £150 on ebay Stalwart
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16:43:35Stalwarti see what happens here and think that in near future Latvia will be renamed to Microsoftland
16:43:48GodEaterWebwhich is approx 300 USD
16:43:55Stalwartthat's ebay
16:44:01Stalwarti don't buy in internetshops
16:44:04fasmaieperl|work: do you have an estimate of the battery life you're getting....I assume the time mentioned in the WPS is inaccurate
16:44:28GodEaterWebwell they're going to be even more in a "real" shop
16:45:00 Quit XavierGr ()
16:45:16Stalwarti'll check out local shops after i get more money, i turned 18 recently and can get leasing now
16:45:35*GodEaterWeb vaguely remembers being 18
16:45:52perl|workfasmaie, with no EQ i got about 15 hours
16:46:24Stalwartiphone is fucking PDA, not the well featured phone... ;[
16:46:26perl|workwith EQ its something around 9
16:46:36fasmaieperl|work: Thanks....I was wondering why my WPS was saying 5:50
16:47:11perl|workbattery life was much improved lately
16:47:25fasmaieperl|work: Would treble/bass settings impact the battery life..I guess a bit
16:47:43fasmaieperl|work: This is the most recent daily
16:47:43Stalwartdevs here? i'm curious if i can change GUI easily? i don't like what rockbox has now, it doesn't fit ipods well =
16:47:43 Quit B4gder ("CGI:IRC")
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16:47:44Stalwart=\
16:47:50perl|workthey shouldn't since its hardware sound settings
16:48:09GodEaterWebchange the GUI in what way ?
16:48:30Stalwartrewrite menu structure and keybinds
16:48:49Stalwartdoes rockbox separate toolkit from gui like iPl's podzilla does?
16:48:49GodEaterWebit's pretty easy if you know C
16:48:59GodEaterWebwe don't have a "toolkit"
16:49:12Stalwarti need to read src
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16:49:22Stalwarti want different menu structure
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16:52:39perl|workfasmaie whats the date of your build?
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16:53:07fasmaie20070109
16:53:21perl|workgo to info/debug
16:53:38fasmaieperl|work: ok, and
16:53:52perl|workyou will see side buttons lights settings there
16:54:04fasmaieperl|work: thanks
16:54:16perl|workyou can play around with them but cant save
16:54:29 Quit PaulJam (".")
16:54:43perl|workthey will stay on until you power the unit off
16:55:10fasmaieperl|work: Any way to get a battery meter to be more accurate...or is the only way to find out the life on my F40 to do a bench?
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16:55:25fasmaieperl|work: That's ok
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16:56:37perl|workonly the bench will tell you the accurate time at the moment
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16:57:15fasmaieperl|work: Thanks, I'll do that then....I get nervous when I see less than 6 hours on a full charge
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16:58:05perl|workits normal, right now it drains very fast and then shows 10-20% left for a long while
16:58:28amiconnThe curve needs calibration
16:58:32fasmaieThat's fine then...I thought that would be the case
16:58:50amiconnSomeone needs to fully charge, and then perform a benchmark run
16:59:10amiconnWith the log file from the benchmark the meter can be calibrated
16:59:57Nico_Pamiconn: is the same thing needed fir the H300 ?
17:00
17:00:01perl|workamiconn i wanted to do that but all gigabeat port people seem to be gone at the moment
17:04:26perl|workfasmaie was your unit brand new when you got it?
17:04:49fasmaieperl|work: Refurbished, actually
17:04:59fasmaieperl|work: that's why I was worried
17:05:46perl|worki think gotthardt has a refurbished one as well
17:06:06perl|workhe reported around 10 hours with no EQ
17:06:35perl|workso 5 or so hours less
17:07:20fasmaieperl|work: That would work for me....but I'll have to check
17:07:36fasmaiecould someone give me wiki write permission
17:09:04perl|worki was reaching almost 19 hours on stock firmware
17:09:28fasmaieperl|work: Thats cool
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17:09:51fasmaieperl|work: Still, I dislike the stock firmware
17:09:52perl|workyeah i was really suprised with battery life when i got f20
17:10:10perl|workfasmaie haha who doesnt
17:10:33fasmaietrue
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17:12:34perl|workactually there're people on mygigabeat forums who got scared by rockbox after 10 minutes of use
17:13:01fasmaieWow!
17:13:24fasmaieI know how that can be....
17:13:36fasmaiePeople get scared by something different
17:14:30fasmaieThat's where Apple got it right on the iPod interface
17:14:37perl|workyeah and they probably have no need for rockbox on the 1st place
17:14:45fasmaieWhile I don't like it.....it is simple
17:15:06fasmaieNope
17:15:11perl|workpersonally i never even had problems with stock firmware/gigabeat software
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17:16:21perl|workbut yeah, no i look at it as some sort of a nightmare
17:16:24perl|worknow*
17:17:34fasmaieAfter I used rockbox on my iPod, I could not go back to the apple firmware
17:18:12fasmaieThen the wife got me the gigabeat (yesterday) - and now Im happy
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17:19:31perl|workwell at least on ipods there are many workaround to get files on and back from the units
17:20:12perl|workon gigabeat you pretty much hopelessly stuck with .sat wrapper
17:23:45fasmaieperl|work: Do you have wiki write access?
17:24:33Stalwartdoes anyone work on piezo support in rockbox?
17:26:19GodEaterWebStalwart: not to my knowledge. There's a lot of hardware in the iPod we don't use properly.
17:26:27GodEaterWebif at all
17:26:31Mikachuwe know how it works though
17:26:50GodEaterWebyeah - I don't really the see the point of it myself though ;)
17:26:53StalwartGodEaterWeb: piezo is implemented in iPl, porting should be easy
17:26:53Mikachui have two plugins that use it
17:27:07GodEaterWebI stand corrected then :)
17:27:09Mikachuone i made myself, maps the wheel to the frequency of the beep
17:27:12Mikachuinsta piano
17:27:23Stalwart:D
17:27:23Mikachusort of hard to play in tune though
17:27:25GodEaterWebyou have any recordings of your tunes on it :)
17:27:38Mikachunope
17:27:46Mikachuit usually makes the ipod reboot after 5 minutes, no idea why
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17:28:03StalwartMikachu: is your piezo stuff in core or in plugin?
17:28:10Mikachuit's in the plugin
17:28:18Mikachuit's just three lines writing to registers basically
17:29:06Stalwart:D
17:29:16Stalwartneeds to be ported to core
17:29:29Mikachuhttp://mikachu.ath.cx/beeper.c
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17:29:43Mikachuno idea if it still compiles
17:30:46perl|workfasmaie nope
17:31:28fasmaieperl|work: Damn! I want make changes to the manual.
17:31:40GodEaterWebStalwart: why do we want this feature in core ?
17:31:49linuxstb_Stalwart: There is a piezo driver patch on the patch tracker.
17:32:21nls_webfasaime: what's your wiki name?
17:33:18nls_weband you can't change the manual from the wiki, it lives in svn, If you make any changes please post them on the tracker
17:40:38nls_webbbl
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18:00:09Stalwarti found a bug in wiki
18:00:21Stalwarthttp://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IpodFAQ <−− picture with text entry doesn't appear
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18:05:38Phish|I found a bug with rockbox −−> It doesn't cost what it's worth :shifty:
18:06:21 Quit linuxstb_ ("Leaving")
18:08:15NimdaePhish|: you could always pay what you feel it's worth ;)
18:08:19Phish|hehe
18:08:25Nimdaethere's a paypal donate button on the right side of the page
18:09:05Phish|well soap is making a wiki tutorial on how to make line-in adapters out of dock connectors
18:09:05Nimdaei personally donate cpu time for the cvs and daily builds :)
18:09:22perl|workthat would be a perfect scenario−−Toshiba gives up F and X series designs to rockbox projects and it opens a hardware line with rockbox software
18:09:23Phish|seeing as i go to a music school, i could probably sell those to people wanting to turn their ipods in to recording devices
18:09:32Phish|then donate the money to rockbox
18:09:32Phish|:)
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18:10:13Phish|perl|work: but then the problem is the developers have to do what toshiba wants, not what makes good software
18:10:32Nimdaeman, when bagder gets the new svn system up, and the distributed building resumes, there's gonna be a huge commit and build
18:11:21nls_webNimdae: commits already work
18:11:29perl|workPhish|, thats why i said "gives up"
18:12:26Phish|well then lets petition them to do it :)
18:12:31 Quit petur ("gone with the wind")
18:13:43perl|workF, X and even S are pretty much dead now anyway
18:15:23Nimdaenls_web: ah, well, the cvs...or rather what will be svn...build system and loggint isn't working yet
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18:34:29Phish|hmmmm, we need FLAC for the recording device
18:34:44*Phish| begins digging in to what's required
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18:39:00fasmaienls_web: my wiki name is YohannMisquitta
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18:41:06Phish|and i see converting to FLAC is a waste of time because WavPack is lossless....nevermind then
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18:44:44fasmaiebye
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18:48:47nls_webfasmaie: if you read the logs, you now have wiki write access.
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19:01:22 Nick Everybody|away is now known as Everybody (n=everybod@harpo.demon.co.uk)
19:01:27 Quit Everybody| ("( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: www.XLhost.de )")
19:04:58phrozen77_say, anyone can tell me how to format my ipod?
19:05:05phrozen77_(without itunes)
19:05:30nls_webphrozen77_: like any other disk?
19:05:42phrozen77_so i just fdisk it?
19:05:53nls_webwhat OS?
19:05:59phrozen77_<- linux / gentoo
19:06:04phrozen77_sec, brb
19:07:50nls_webfdisk is not needed to format, that will edit your partitions.
19:08:32pixelmamaybe interesting for this question... http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=7738.msg63181#msg63181 and following (?)
19:08:37nls_webI guess you want to use mkfs.vfat with apropriate switches etc, but make sure to format the big second partition, not the small first one
19:09:34 Quit juxtap (Connection timed out)
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19:10:42***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
19:10:47nls_webas you can see in the thread pixelma posted the ipod wont work if the small firmware partition is removed, but it can be restored by iTunes or dd, if you have a backup
19:12:13Everybodyhmm
19:12:16Everybodyok
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19:12:38Everybodyfor some music files (usually for whole folders) in rockbox I'll get a message saying "o File" which I suspect means "No file"
19:12:41Everybodythe files play properly on my computer
19:12:45Everybodywhen I plug it in
19:12:50Everybodybut Rockbox just can't play them
19:13:05Everybodyany suggestions?
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19:16:43 Join markun [0] (n=markun@rockbox/developer/markun)
19:17:11nls_webEverybody: waht format?
19:17:49nls_webthey aren't wma's, are they? ;-)
19:17:57 Quit Xerion (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
19:18:30 Join zylche [0] (n=wheee@82-41-83-91.cable.ubr01.dund.blueyonder.co.uk)
19:18:56Everybodyuhm
19:18:58Everybodyis that bad
19:19:09markunthey are just not supported
19:19:14Everybodyhmm
19:19:22Everybodybut it can play them right?
19:19:25Everybodyjust not all of them
19:19:25nls_webno
19:19:33Everybodyhmm I'm pretty sure it's played some WMAs... ah well
19:19:35nls_webno wma support at all
19:19:38Everybodyjust have to reconvert then
19:19:51perl|worktheres an experimental patch?
19:20:00markunyes, there is
19:20:08markunthey might even play fine on the gigabeat
19:20:12EverybodyI have an H10 though
19:20:14markunperl|work: care to try?
19:20:20perl|workhey markun, hows the capital of love
19:20:31Everybodyare you still talking about WMAs or have we moved on to Paris now ;s
19:20:33Everybody:s
19:20:34perl|workmarkun good idea, ill try it tonight
19:20:37markunnot much love, but the capital is fine otherwise
19:20:57markunEverybody: yes, Paris :)
19:21:03Everybodyoh cool
19:21:04EverybodyI thought so
19:21:08markunEverybody: on H10 you are out of luck I think
19:21:20Everybodyah dammit
19:21:22Everybodyok
19:21:26Everybodyjust need to reconvert to MP3
19:21:30markununtil someone optimizes the codec enough to play realtime
19:21:37EverybodyI see
19:21:46markunKeep the originals, they will hopefully work one day
19:21:58EverybodyI don't mind about converting them permenantly to mp3
19:22:23Everybodyand once there is support I'm not exactly going to delete the MP3s to put on the WMAs
19:22:24nls_webugh transcoding...
19:22:44Everybodyceci, c'est ennuyeux, non
19:22:57Everybodyooh la la
19:23:04Everybodyca ne va pas!
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19:24:36perl|workmarkun, small question
19:25:09 Quit _Veseliq_ (Remote closed the connection)
19:25:11perl|workis it possible to implement the side buttons to move the cursor in text editor
19:26:14 Quit nls_web ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
19:30:17markunperl|work: sure, why not?
19:32:28perl|workthat would be very nice
19:32:50perl|workcause now you have to delete the whole line etc to make corrections
19:33:49Nico_PEverybody: nice french :p
19:34:27markunperl|work: I think you can move with POWER+LEFT
19:34:49perl|workalso i think backlight behaviour / settings on hold switch needs to be adjusted
19:34:49markunAt least that was the intention
19:34:56perl|workmarkun really? let me try
19:35:01Nico_Pmarkun: are you saying the WMA codec in the tracker is functionnal but slower than realtime ?
19:35:03markunyes, it's not implemented
19:35:19markunNico_P: I thought so, but never tried it myself
19:35:39perl|workand we still have that wps bug
19:35:43Nico_Pi'm not really sure wer'e that close to supporting wma
19:35:48perl|work(which is somehow the most frustrating one)
19:35:50 Quit lee-qid ("aufwiederbyebientotsayonara")
19:37:05markunperl|work: you mean the background colour problem?
19:37:33perl|workyeah
19:37:54perl|workand it effects progress bars
19:38:10perl|workyes, POWER+left/right works for scrolling
19:38:23perl|worknice
19:38:25 Nick Everybody is now known as Everybody|Determ (n=everybod@harpo.demon.co.uk)
19:39:53***Server message 505: 'logbot :Private messages from unregistered users are currently blocked due to spam problems, but you can always message a staffer. Please register! ( http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#privmsg )'
19:40:07markunperl|work: and I still think that should become A+LEFT
19:40:20perl|workits easy to accidentally switch off the player this way though
19:40:29markunto prevent shutdown while holding POWER too long :)
19:40:34perl|workhehe
19:40:45perl|workbut why not the side volume buttons?
19:41:55***Server message 505: 'logbot :Private messages from unregistered users are currently blocked due to spam problems, but you can always message a staffer. Please register! ( http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#privmsg )'
19:42:05markunI think the idea was to use them to always change the volume
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19:42:27perl|workthats a very good idea
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19:44:05markunperl|work: there are some targets with volume buttons on the remote for which this feature would also be nice
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19:44:33toffeHi markun
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19:46:29Nico_Pmarkun: i downloaded the wma patch and i can't gunzip it...
19:46:46Nico_Pactually i can but the output is a bin file
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19:58:31LinusNNico_P: gunzip it again
19:58:34phrozen77_meh
19:58:43LinusNit is zipped twice for some reason
19:58:45phrozen77_after mkfs.vfat /dev/sda2 it wont mount anyomre
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20:00
20:00:21Mikachuphrozen77_: you want -F 32 at least
20:00:23Mikachuiirc
20:00:32Mikachuor you'll get a fat16 filesystem
20:00:47Nico_PLinusN: thanks :)
20:00:53ruisuso, to upload a wps, i need to register?
20:00:56Nico_Pbetter now
20:00:57phrozen77_phrozen77@laptop ~ $ mount /dev/ipod
20:00:57phrozen77_mount: /dev/ipod: can't read superblock
20:01:29phrozen77_(its now formatted with f32
20:01:48Mikachuand ls -l /dev/ipod points to /dev/sda2 ?
20:02:05phrozen77_laptop phrozen77 # ls -l /dev/ipod
20:02:05phrozen77_lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4 Jan 11 19:54 /dev/ipod -> sda2
20:02:16 Quit markun (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
20:02:20 Join markun [0] (n=markun@rockbox/developer/markun)
20:02:56phrozen77_Disk /dev/sda: 80.0 GB, 80026361856 bytes
20:02:56phrozen77_255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 2432 cylinders
20:02:56phrozen77_Units = cylinders of 16065 * 2048 = 32901120 bytes
20:02:56DBUGEnqueued KICK phrozen77_
20:02:56phrozen77_ Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System
20:02:56phrozen77_/dev/sda1 1 4 128394 0 Empty
20:02:57***Alert Mode level 1
20:02:57phrozen77_/dev/sda2 5 2432 78011640 b W95 FAT32
20:03:02Mikachutry mount -t vfat /dev/ipod
20:03:38phrozen77_same
20:03:54phrozen77_as expected, since fstab is set right
20:04:15Mikachuis vfat listed in /proc/filesystems?
20:04:31phrozen77_laptop phrozen77 # cat /proc/filesystems | grep vfat
20:04:31phrozen77_ vfat
20:04:43Mikachuout of ideas
20:04:45phrozen77_why shouldnt it, support is compiled in and it worked happily before
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20:04:56phrozen77_hm
20:05:19 Part LinusN
20:05:21phrozen77_what about removing the partition and adding it agian with fdisk, then formatting again?
20:05:38Mikachui don't see why that would help
20:06:35 Join LinusN [0] (i=linus@rockbox/developer/LinusN)
20:07:44phrozen77_hm
20:07:47phrozen77_did it, same result
20:09:26Mikachudo you have another computer handy to try on?
20:09:47Mikachuor before that, have you tried replugging it?
20:09:49phrozen77_not plugged together
20:09:54phrozen77_no
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20:11:28phrozen77_funny enough, its initializing itself when i turn it on
20:11:36phrozen77_ie, i get the first-boot dialogue
20:11:43phrozen77_lets see if i can mount it again now
20:12:03phrozen77_no
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20:12:58***Alert Mode OFF
20:13:02Mikachui can't remember having to do anything to make mkdosfs happy
20:14:48Mikachuphrozen77_: you could try on a loopback file
20:15:07phrozen77_well im pretty sure mounting vfat itself does work
20:15:07dragghohi there
20:15:19dragghoone q question
20:15:35Mikachuphrozen77_: yeah but are you sure your mkfs.vfat works?
20:15:47dragghois ther any chance to avoid using UMS trick with MTP h10 to upload files
20:15:49phrozen77_it should, i suppose
20:16:46Mikachuphrozen77_: try dd if=/dev/zero bs=1024 count=10000 of=testfile; mkfs.vfat -F 32 testfile; mkdir testdir; mount -o loop testfile testdir
20:16:50Mikachuor something
20:17:46pixelmaphrozen77_: don't you have a 80GB Ipod - maybe something related going on (though I have no idea about filesystems)?
20:17:54phrozen77_yup
20:17:56Mikachuah
20:18:02Mikachuthose have a different blocksize do they not?
20:18:13phrozen77_no clue?
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20:18:19phrozen77_ mkfs.vfat -F 32 testfile
20:18:19phrozen77_mkfs.vfat 2.11 (12 Mar 2005)
20:18:19phrozen77_WARNING: Not enough clusters for a 32 bit FAT!
20:18:19Slasherihehe, i just started like to use my ipod more after putting a nice theme to it ;) now need to optimize the gui code and button driver for better scrolling
20:18:45Mikachuah my command creates a 10kB file on second inspection
20:18:51Mikachuadd three zeroes to count or bs
20:19:22Mikachui don't know how big the sector size is on ipod 5.5Gs, but you probably need to give that number to mkfs.vfat
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20:20:52phrozen77_laptop phrozen77 # mkfs.vfat -F 32 testfile
20:20:52phrozen77_mkfs.vfat 2.11 (12 Mar 2005)
20:20:52phrozen77_laptop phrozen77 # mkdir testdir
20:20:52phrozen77_laptop phrozen77 # mount -t vfat testfile testdir/
20:20:52phrozen77_mount: testfile is not a block device (maybe try `-o loop'?)
20:20:53***Alert Mode level 1
20:20:53phrozen77_laptop phrozen77 # mount -t vfat -o loop testfile testdir/
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20:22:03Mikachuso that did work
20:22:07phrozen77_yup
20:22:13Mikachuthen it's most likely a block size thing
20:22:44 Quit Ribs ("eh eh ehhhh!")
20:24:53phrozen77_the question how to find out the right one remains :P
20:25:11Mikachusomeone here should know, i think it's 2048 though
20:25:31phrozen77_could be, fdisk said something like that
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20:25:41Mikachuit's either that or 1024
20:26:21phrozen77_do you by chance know the option on how to tell mkfs the blocksize?
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20:27:19Mikachunope
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20:27:33phrozen77_laptop phrozen77 # fdisk /dev/sda
20:27:33phrozen77_Note: sector size is 2048 (not 512)
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20:28:06Mikachuperhaps -S logical-sector-size
20:28:32phrozen77_hah!
20:28:37phrozen77_phrozen77@laptop ~ $ mount /dev/ipod
20:28:37phrozen77_phrozen77@laptop ~ $
20:28:56Mikachupixelma: thanks :)
20:29:09 Quit Wiwie (Client Quit)
20:29:17phrozen77_thank you Mikachu
20:30:07GodEaterwhere does one acquire the right build script for the svn server (assuming one's been written for build servers now) ?
20:30:54***Alert Mode OFF
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20:36:21dan_aDarn! I just tried phoning Nvidia to see if I could get any PortalPlayer documentation... I got transferred a load of times and then got dumped to a voicemail :(
20:36:52markunnice service
20:37:13gotthardthey markun
20:37:19markunhi gotthardt!
20:37:24gotthardthow is paris?
20:37:25markunlong time no chat
20:37:33markungreat
20:37:45markunI feel very small in this big city
20:37:48GodEaterdan_a: I've dumped something onto their forums too
20:37:57gotthardtheh
20:38:06GodEaterwith the same level of success - but a lot less of the run around you've had ;)
20:38:19dan_aGodEater: Good thinking - probably a lot less of the bill too!
20:38:35gotthardti saw your request for flickering leds on disk access
20:38:43RedZZRgotthardt: hi... just built and tried the latest svn... my LCD always turns off - even when set to no in debug
20:39:09GodEaterdan_a: where do you call? Nvidia UK, or Nvidia USA ?
20:39:17gotthardtRedZZR: yes - for now it always fades and turns off lcd -
20:39:31dan_aGodEater: Head office in California
20:39:36gotthardtthere will be settings soon that stick and work
20:39:37GodEateryou're a brave soul then :)
20:39:43RedZZRok, just checking... looks good
20:39:46dan_aI wouldn't expect anyone to answer in the UK at 7pm
20:39:54GodEatergood point - well made
20:40:01GodEaterI now feel very stupid
20:40:01GodEater:)
20:40:48gotthardtRedZZR: i have svn access and will be testing local, but i would like the build reporting online so i can see if i affect other ports
20:41:10gotthardtbefore commiting changes that could affect other ports
20:41:33markungotthardt: will you implement 2 stage backlight fading?
20:42:05gotthardtmarkun: like fade to dim and then later turn off - I can
20:42:08RedZZRIt looks like the switch to SVN has gone smoothly, does anybody know of any problems and when the build info will be switched?
20:42:18markungotthardt: I think that would be ideal\
20:42:30gotthardtyes - i would like it that way too..
20:43:30dan_aGodEater: I might try the UK offices tomorrow
20:43:36gotthardtmarkun: i would like to propose an api for callbacks so we can do visualizations like winamp - do we have anything like that already?
20:44:07markungotthardt: you can make a plugin do something like that
20:44:29GodEaterdan_a: I guess it doesn't hurt - but from personal experience of working in the UK branch of a US company I wouldn't hope for much
20:44:41markunwe have the vu_meter and oscilloscope for example
20:44:59GodEaterI used to have hassle getting information out of our US cousins, and I had every right to it at the time
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20:45:05LinusNstill, having visualizations in the wps would add some coolness
20:45:15gotthardtmarkun: cool - ill check those out... i just wanted access to the pcm stream
20:46:01gotthardtwinamp uses: callback(howoften, fillmybufferwithpcm)
20:46:26LinusNgotthardt: and winamp uses: a 1GHz PC
20:46:45markunLinusN: amiconn was talking about running plugins inside viewports :)
20:46:53gotthardtLinusN - we have 300Mhz arm on the Gigabeat :)
20:47:01LinusN:_)
20:47:41CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
20:47:41*GodEater vaguely remembers running winamp back on a 333MHz pentium
20:47:42markunI told vadim that rockbox never sleeps during playback, that is true right?
20:47:50amiconnmarkun: That will probably be possible, but then there are many things which are more important to do
20:47:52GodEatercan't remember what the visuals looked like back then though
20:48:05markunamiconn: I would never use it anyway
20:48:20LinusNamiconn: yeah, like viewports :-P
20:48:35amiconnSure you will, when they get in
20:48:43GodEateris there a working build server script I can grab from somewhere yet? Or are we still waiting on one that works with SVN ?
20:48:59markunamiconn: I was talking about the visualisations
20:49:09amiconnI know
20:49:31amiconnAtm I won't commit anything non-trivial anyway, until at least the build table is working again
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20:50:25perl|workgotthardt hey
20:50:36gotthardthey perl|work
20:50:40perl|worki think sloth didnt really find anything on that wps bug
20:51:07gotthardtlast i talked with him he though it 'might' be related to dma
20:51:17gotthardtbut no fix yet
20:51:23LinusNGodEater: the build script hasn't changed
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20:51:43perl|workgotthardt still love all the side leds effects hehe
20:51:50GodEaterLinusN: so where do I get it from then ? The CvsBuildServer page just says "get it" but not where from.
20:51:53perl|workthat charging illumination is kinda fun
20:52:02gotthardtheh - that was fun
20:52:06gotthardtit might also be related to what markun sees
20:52:27gotthardt? server switched my responses...
20:52:31combrainsso when will the LED's become part of the main code?
20:52:33perl|workgotthardt i think it is cause i exprienced different kind of bugs with different wps
20:52:51perl|worklike on icatcher i could see just one pink line
20:53:01perl|workin some random place on the screen
20:53:06LinusNGodEater: http://linus.haxx.se/acbuild.pl
20:53:14perl|workbeatmp and pixel have progress bar broken
20:53:16perl|worketc
20:54:02GodEaterLinusN: HTTP 500 error =/
20:54:08LinusNtry again
20:54:13GodEatersame
20:54:33gotthardtcombrains: the settings will be done later after the build reporiting is online so i can see how other ports are affected by my changes
20:55:12combrainshehe ok
20:55:15LinusNGodEater: silly apache, try http://linus.haxx.se/acbuild.pl.txt
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20:55:17GodEaterand now it's a 404....
20:55:22GodEaterah ok
20:55:28GodEaterhahaha
20:55:30GodEaternope
20:55:35GodEaterapache still thinks it's something to run
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20:55:40 Quit markun (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
20:55:41markun_amiconn: which was the other target with software controled leds? the X5?
20:55:49GodEaterzip it ?
20:55:51 Nick markun_ is now known as markun (n=markun@rockbox/developer/markun)
20:55:56LinusNhttp://linus.haxx.se/acbuild.txt
20:56:03gotthardtand what should the leds do ultimatly: combrains and perl|work ? do both: flicker on disk and show charge?or?
20:56:13GodEaterLinusN: that got it thanks
20:56:20combrainsfollow backlight i say
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20:56:31markungotthardt: for me they can stay off
20:56:40combrainscharge and disk access would be nice too
20:56:52combrainswhy not make a selectable menu
20:56:54toffecan be an option
20:56:59combrainslike we have in debug now
20:57:00gotthardtcombrains: and for me i want them to be faint always
20:57:29gotthardtthe menu gets kind of complicated... do we have a gui for radio buttons and checkboxs?
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20:57:36perl|workgotthardt faint for me as well
20:57:37markungotthardt: faint with flickering is also possible of course
20:57:51perl|workmenu would be ideal
20:58:03perl|workbut if we have to stick to one option
20:58:19perl|workid go with always ON (faint)
20:58:35perl|worksince i have to find the player in the dark sometimes hehe
20:58:48gotthardtthere will be other options, but im trying to think how to combine -
20:59:44markunLEDs: off|faint|follow backlight, flicker on HDD: on|off, on charge: (don't know what it should do)
20:59:58perl|workcharging illumination is cool and all but its kinda useless since i charge the player in off condition mainly
21:00
21:00:02GodEaterLinusN: ok - I've done everything that's in the CvsBuildServer page now. What next ?
21:00:31perl|workmarkun you havent seen the illumination on charge? its fun
21:00:41LinusNGodEater: even the SSH keyfile?
21:00:45markunno, didn't try it yet
21:00:47GodEateryep
21:00:47GodEaterdid that last night
21:00:51GodEaterthough no-one's tested it
21:00:57 Join stevenm [0] (n=stevenm@209.101.154.70)
21:01:12markungotthardt: what do you think of those 3 options?
21:01:25perl|workbtw the player always stays on when plugged to AC, correct?
21:01:27gotthardtmarkun - good - works for me
21:01:45gotthardtand also the choice of which buttons
21:01:53gotthardtthe top 2 or all of them
21:02:07markungotthardt: or maybe for HDD: nothing|bright|flicker
21:02:26gotthardtgood
21:03:09perl|worki noticed strange behaviour with the remote and my f60
21:03:27perl|work(didnt test it with f20)
21:03:30Nico_Pmarkun: trying to compile with the wma patch, i get "*** No rule to make target `button-target.h', needed by `/home/nicolas/rockbox/rockbox-svn/sim-h300/apps/codecs/libwma/wmadeci.o'. Stop.", like in http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/4984#comment10363
21:03:45 Quit thegeek (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
21:03:54Nico_Pyou said you managed to get around that, but i tried what you said and it didn't change anything
21:03:54markunNico_P: I wrote in the comments how to fix that
21:03:57gotthardtwhat perl|work was the prob?
21:04:08markunNico_P: ah, then I don't know
21:04:26markungotthardt: what should the lights do on charging?
21:04:36Nico_Pwe're talking about the makefile in apps/codecs/libwma, right ?
21:04:42perl|workplay/pause on the remote stops to function as play/pause and does nothing or goes to main menu
21:04:46gotthardtmarkun - you need to try that - i think you will like it
21:05:07markungotthardt: I'm charging right now, do I need to enable something?
21:05:11perl|workit was really random
21:05:12 Nick Everybody|Determ is now known as Everybody (n=everybod@harpo.demon.co.uk)
21:05:23GodEaterright - time for dinner.
21:05:29gotthardtmarkun in info/debug/lights choose the charging
21:05:32 Nick GodEater is now known as GodEater|Stuffin (i=bryan@host-83-146-15-79.bulldogdsl.com)
21:05:46amiconnmarkun: codecs shouldn't need any target include...
21:06:23perl|workgotthardt do you have the remote?
21:06:33Nico_Pamiconn: they all seem to have them
21:06:39 Quit CelticSoul ("Leaving")
21:06:51gotthardtyes perl|work - not with me - but i did the code for the remote buttons
21:07:04markungotthardt: I have to go now, will try it some other time
21:07:19gotthardtbye markun
21:07:20perl|workever experienced a problem like that?
21:07:44gotthardtit is by design that it acts like that
21:07:59gotthardti might have to remap that during playback
21:08:09perl|workwhat do you mean?
21:08:37perl|workcause it works as play/pause alright, just gets out of hand after a while
21:08:52gotthardtOh - ic - ill have to check that out
21:09:02amiconnSomething seems to be very wrong...
21:09:16amiconnWhy do we have malloc.h?
21:09:16gotthardtperl|work you have an X?
21:09:17 Part LinusN
21:09:48perl|workgotthardt, no, just f20 and f60
21:09:54perl|work(i wish i had an X)
21:09:57amiconn...and why does a codec include firmware includes?
21:10:10gotthardtok - i assume that all voltages are like my f40
21:10:43***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21:10:49perl|workdo you think theres a difference between all Fs?
21:10:53perl|workhehe
21:11:04 Quit lee-qid ("aufwiederbyebientotsayonara")
21:11:14stevenmFinally, MIDI on Simulator works :)
21:11:17gotthardtand they should be - but i only used mine - ill have to put debug back in to read the adc for the buttons and see if yours are different
21:11:31perl|workoh got you
21:11:35stevenmOh god I hope this doesn't break anything..
21:11:37amiconnAfaik codecs should _never_ include anything else than codecs.h and stuff within the apps/codecs/ tree
21:11:45 Join lee-qid [0] (n=liqid@p54966672.dip.t-dialin.net)
21:13:56perl|workgotthardt is it possible to save treble/bass settings?
21:14:04perl|worka lot of people are asking about that
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21:16:51 Quit thegeek_ ()
21:17:57gotthardtperl|work - i have seen that and someone put in a patch?
21:18:16perl|worknever heard about the patch
21:18:34pixelmaI think jba said that he put a patch in the tracker...
21:18:48gotthardtperl|work - maybe its not official - O - thanks pixelma
21:19:01perl|workaha, i have to check then
21:19:32toffegotthardt : what about a drink in portland airport on monday ? I am going there before going to Medford
21:19:40gotthardtthat might be something that I can blind patch
21:19:57gotthardttoffe what time on monday?
21:20:23toffeI am in transit berween 1 and 2
21:20:42 Quit ruisu (Remote closed the connection)
21:21:09perl|workthing is, when people find out about a patch it creates even more problems 'cause they are asking how to patch, could somebody to patch it for me, etc hehe
21:21:26gotthardttoffe - that would be fun -
21:21:30toffeyes
21:22:03 Join jackfusion [0] (i=8ea19d07@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-8369f8a439a22695)
21:22:12jackfusionhi all
21:22:43toffegotthardt : do you work far from the airport ?
21:23:10gotthardtabout 20 miles - its across town
21:23:11jackfusionis there a way to save files in the text editor?
21:23:28gotthardttoffe see msg
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21:24:00toffegotthardt : ok
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21:25:41 Join Llorean [0] (n=Llorean@rockbox/administrator/Llorean)
21:25:42toffegotthardt : still cannot pm
21:26:01gotthardtoh - have you verified with the system?
21:26:21gotthardtor can you see my pms?
21:26:29toffegotthardt : I try to register but cannot, yes
21:26:44toffegotthardt : I see the pm but cannot answer
21:26:47gotthardtok
21:27:18amiconntoffe: If gotthardt enables receiving messages from unregistered user, it would work
21:27:29 Join DraX [0] (n=alex@xmms2/developer/DraX)
21:27:36gotthardtthanks amiconn how can i do that (irc newbe)
21:27:38DraXis tagcache always going to be big endian?
21:27:38*amiconn usually has that option enabled, no problems so far
21:27:53DraXlike across the various players
21:28:11amiconnIf I get spammed, I can still disable it
21:28:38gotthardtamiconn - how do i enable?
21:28:43SlasheriDraX: in future, different endianessnes will be supported
21:28:54amiconn/msg nickserv set unfiltered on
21:28:58gotthardtthx
21:29:00DraXSlasheri: and so i shouldn't assume big-endian while writing a reader?
21:29:26DraXi'm writing a xmms2 <-> rockbox syncer
21:29:26SlasheriDraX: well, it depends. For iriver it's big endian, and for ipod the opposite
21:29:37Slasherithat sounds interesting :)
21:29:41gotthardttoffe try pm now
21:29:58DraXI've got tagcache reading mostly done
21:30:10DraXbut i'm assuming big endian.. (it's big endian on my x5l
21:30:20jackfusionsoryy about this but this seems the only way that I can get help on here.
21:30:21jackfusionis there a way to save files in the text editor?
21:30:34SlasheriDraX: btw, did you check the database pc code? (make database in tools-directory)
21:30:50Slasheriit already has some ported functionality of tagcache for pc
21:30:56DraXSlasheri: no i didn't, but i'm writing it in python
21:31:03Slasheriah, ok :)
21:31:03amiconngotthardt: This option will stick even across sessions, no need to set it on every logon
21:31:03DraXSlasheri: so i'm not sure that'd help much
21:31:09pixelmagotthardt: found it in http://www.rockbox.org/irc/rockbox-20070110.txt at 12:37... http://members.optusnet.com.au/jba-mono/bass_treble_fix_for_gigabeat.patch
21:31:18 Quit lee-qid ("aufwiederbyebientotsayonara")
21:31:22DraXSlasheri: though it may help me for understanding how tagcache is implemented better
21:31:30DraXSlasheri: i've been having to read the tagcache code to figure it out
21:31:39LloreanIs there an svn changelog somewhere yet, or do I just need to do svn log -r and a range of dates?
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21:32:13 Quit spiorf (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:32:14amiconnpixelma, gotthardt_ That patch will work, but will mess up the settings block on gigabeats
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21:32:57amiconnInserting or removing setting bits from the middle of the block will (obviously) shift all subsequent bits
21:33:33amiconnThe solution is to bump the config block version when doing such changes.
21:34:39amiconnThis will render the old settings invalid and hence reset them to defaults (unfortunately for all targets)
21:35:08amiconnThere's a patch in the works to get rid of this binary settings block, but it's not yet ready for inclusion
21:40:50SlasheriDraX: nice
21:41:41DraXSlasheri: yeah i've not really been sure how to sync the two because i don't even know what's in one and not in the other
21:41:51DraXSlasheri: so I figured I could toss something together real quick to resolve the issue
21:42:53 Quit scubacoles (Remote closed the connection)
21:43:50SlasheriDraX :) checking tagcache.h should give you a quick overview what it's capable of doing and which tags are supported atm
21:44:14gotthardtthx pixelma - that should do it
21:44:22DraXSlasheri: yup
21:44:43DraXSlasheri: I'm just grabbing url, title, artist, album for each song
21:45:02DraXSlasheri: then calculating an md5 on the url, and checking if a song with the same artist, album, title is in medialib and if the md5sums match
21:45:16DraXSlasheri: and if it's not copying it over.
21:45:50Slasheribtw, what is the url?
21:45:56DraXSlasheri: the path
21:46:01Slasheriah, ok
21:46:02DraXSlasheri: xmms2 just stores them as urls
21:46:17DraXSlasheri: since we have multiple transports (http, file, samba, etc)
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21:46:33Slasheritrue, sounds good
21:47:51Slasherido you think it could then sync for example playcount, score (in future) etc. automatically too?
21:48:02DraXSlasheri: easily
21:48:08Slashericool :)
21:48:38DraXSlasheri: especially rockbox -> xmms2
21:48:52DraXxmms2 -> rockbox is a bit harder since i'd have to make my tagcache reader a writer too
21:48:58Slasheriit would be very nice if it could work for both ways
21:49:03DraXyeah
21:49:04 Join tucoz [0] (i=50ca62ea@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-2a8b25f77c1eb225)
21:49:18DraXI don't even have the soung accounting support enabled
21:49:20DraXI should.
21:49:32Slasherifor writing tagcache, i would suggest using the C-code directly
21:49:59tucozthe iphone do look cool. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgW7or1TuFk
21:50:00DraXmaybe i'll toss together some bindings for it
21:50:14Slasherior then modifies could be done through an ascii changelog too
21:50:31DraXSlasheri: i'd rather just do it all directly on the tagcache db
21:50:55Slasheriyeah, that would be better indeed if possible
21:51:06DraXi actually don't think a writer would be _too_ hard
21:51:40jackfusioncan't some one just port to podwrite
21:52:13Slasheriit's just easier to use tagcache code for that because the commit sequence is not that simple. It needs to sort certain tags and reindex them in master index
21:52:40DraXyeah i know the index needs to be redone
21:52:43DraXsince it's just offsets
21:52:48Slasheriyep
21:52:49DraXand if the length of the string changed it would mess up the offset
21:53:31DraXpython actually had a really great module for doing this
21:53:42DraXstruct, it can pack, and unpack structs and calculate their size
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21:54:16Slasherihehe, i didn't though python would be that good at handling binary files ;)
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21:54:52 Quit wolly-p (Client Quit)
21:55:49 Part frogslegs
21:56:56 Part LinusN
21:57:58 Join wolly-p [0] (i=59382300@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-5f26ec2df4d81091)
21:58:03DraXSlasheri: well i've tried to do binary file reading with python before without struct
21:58:07DraXSlasheri: and it's not so fun
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21:59:58amiconnA lot of manual screenshots for plugins are out of date...
22:00
22:00:49 Join LinusN [0] (i=linus@rockbox/developer/LinusN)
22:02:54 Quit combrains (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:03:32 Quit Mouser_X (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:03:38tucozamiconn: and a lot are missing (sansa and gigabeat especially)
22:03:47 Join Alexinc [0] (n=Ajaxinc@71.237.170.237)
22:03:49*bluebrother already noticed that
22:04:02bluebrother(missing and outdated screenshots)
22:04:23*pixelma is aware of that, too
22:04:27tucozwonder if the tilted screen is the new thing. the gigabeat, sansa, and also the iphone has that arrangement
22:04:49 Join thegeek [0] (n=thegeek@s026b.studby.ntnu.no)
22:04:53Alexincits the screen of the future
22:05:36tucozbut only for portable stuff it seems. widescreen is otherwise the thing for desktops/laptops and tv´s
22:05:46 Quit Xerion (" ")
22:06:10LloreanWell, the tilted screen gives you widescreen for movies, plus a much better view of a list.
22:06:15Alexincits too clunky for portable things
22:06:16 Quit RedZZR ("Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox 2.0.0.1/2006120418]")
22:06:59tucozLlorean. indeed
22:07:13 Nick DreamThief is now known as DreamThief|off (n=mathias@p54A8099E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
22:09:33 Join mirak [0] (n=mirak@m145.net195-132-203.noos.fr)
22:10:23amiconneurgh
22:10:25 Join tvelocity [0] (n=tony@ipa4.7.tellas.gr)
22:10:55amiconnMost images in the svn www module are broken (missing binary flag), if not all...
22:11:23 Quit Alexinc ()
22:11:53tucozdidn´t rasher create a patch for the www module with updated stuff, and outdated stuff removed?
22:12:05tucozlike updated images
22:12:07amiconnCorrection: the ones in the devcon dir are broken
22:12:37amiconnHmm, some others as well
22:15:08tucozno. i remembered wrong. the patch is only fixing the redirects (#5617)
22:15:41 Quit mirak ("Ex-Chat")
22:16:01 Join mirak [0] (n=mirak@m145.net195-132-203.noos.fr)
22:16:09tucozit would be cool if we had a bot that echoed the title for the bug#, when we type these in here
22:16:33tucozI´ve seen that the ubuntu dev´s have something like that
22:16:34DraXwe have a bot that does that for #xmms2
22:16:39DraX!summary <bug num>
22:16:46DraXand SkitIDet will say the bug summary
22:17:38DraXalso announces pushes to the git repositories on exodus
22:17:46DraXand announces new/modified bugs
22:17:52tucozi find that kind of bot very good. and you keep the devs more aware of the tracker tasks
22:18:10DraXit means i don't have to check git.xmms.se every day
22:18:31 Join Goofi [0] (i=OOOooo@bzq-82-81-169-214.red.bezeqint.net)
22:18:38tucozwe would want to keep the flooding to a minimum and restrictive, but a single echo wouldn´t hurt
22:18:40LloreanMost of the devs already subscribe to the patch-tracker emails
22:18:42tucoz(imho)
22:18:42MikachuDraX: nice name for a bot :)
22:18:57DraXMikachu: yeah i understand it's something slightly offensive in swedish :)
22:19:16tucozhehe. now i saw it as well
22:19:29DraXyeah, i'm subscribed to ports-committers@freebsd.org (cvs logs for ports)
22:19:30Mikachu"don't give a shit"
22:19:32DraXi delete it without reading
22:19:39Mikachuyou usually don't say that to people in english though
22:19:40DraXit's too much traffic
22:19:53DraXMikachu: i say that to pepople all the time
22:19:58tucozLlorean: I mean. i have a hard time keeping track of the patch tracker emails. it´s simply too active.
22:20:10DraXtucoz: exactly
22:20:13MikachuDraX: as an imperative? not "_i_ don't give a shit"
22:20:18GoofiLlorean: I took your advice, opened a mp3 dedicated channel for mp3 players here. ;)
22:20:20DraXMikachu: yeah
22:20:23 Join bluebrother^ [0] (i=foobar@rockbox/staff/bluebrother)
22:20:25Mikachui see
22:20:33DraXMikachu: fairly common actually
22:20:40Lloreantucoz: How would patches being spammed to to here be any better than say, a "New tasks only" one for flyspray?
22:20:51DraXtucoz: same problem with ports-committers
22:20:59LloreanGoofi: So, a general hardware discussion kinda place?
22:21:13tucozThey won´t be spammed. but simply echoed when some wants to show the other devs a task
22:21:17GoofiOnly about mp3 players
22:21:17 Quit wolly-p ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
22:21:21Goofinot hardware, or mp3 files.
22:21:26Lloreantucoz: Oh, didn't catch the echo.
22:21:27tucozlike. have you seen #blabla
22:21:45DraXi think you can even do !summary id |tell <person> :)
22:21:48DraXand it'll highlight them
22:22:03tucozand the bot will show the title. to keep people aware of interesting tasks
22:22:09 Join wolly-p [0] (i=59382300@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-d9b492013490ad02)
22:22:10LloreanGoofi: What's the channel name, so I can send people there when they have questions about MP3 player hardware rather than Rockbox?
22:22:40 Quit jackfusion ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
22:22:45Goofi#iaudiophiles
22:23:02LloreanSo....
22:23:08LloreanIt's about *specific* MP3 players?
22:23:20Goofino, for any mp3 players.
22:23:23LloreanThen why is "iaudio" in the name?
22:23:30Goofiit just #mp3players already registered
22:24:07 Join combrains [0] (n=combrain@222-155-41-229.jetstream.xtra.co.nz)
22:24:14LloreanIt seems a misleading name, is all
22:24:14tucozsee you later
22:24:17 Part tucoz
22:24:50Gooficould be..
22:25:21wolly-pI am new here and just registered in the wiki to update information for the Samsung YH-920; could somebody give me write access? Thanks
22:25:39wolly-pwiki Username is WolfgangPapen
22:25:42bagawkwolly-p: sure, Give me a second
22:26:35Goofibut it might also be the home channel for iaudio forum i'm active in
22:27:09bagawkwolly-p: added
22:27:33wolly-pbagawk: thanks!
22:28:43dan_ahmph. Should an ASM optimised memcpy routine be bigger than the original C code?
22:33:19peturif it's faster, why not
22:33:30Mikachuif smaller was always faster, we wouldn't have -O3 and -Os
22:34:36dan_aI've nicked the memcpy that was submitted to libc a few months back - it adds 500 bytes to the core
22:34:52dan_aI'll test it and see how it performs
22:35:53 Quit combrains ("Rockbox Rocks :)")
22:35:57 Join strabes [0] (n=strabes@wcnat-48-175.wheaton.edu)
22:35:59 Quit bluebrother (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:37:05 Quit ender` (" "Religion is the opiate of the masses." -- Karl Marx "Winners don't do drugs." -- The FBI")
22:37:13 Quit phrozen77_ ("All generalizations are false.")
22:42:16 Join Alonea [0] (n=chatzill@24-117-195-16.cpe.cableone.net)
22:42:51*dan_a cheers!
22:43:09LloreanMeasurably better?
22:43:15dan_aI got boost < 100% when playing an mp3 on my 3G iPod
22:43:32dan_aThat's the first time I've ever seen that.
22:43:42Aloneaok, on the build.rockbox.org page, how do we see whats in the new build, or is that not up yet?
22:43:44 Join ender` [0] (n=ender@84.52.165.220)
22:45:34dan_aAlonea: The SVN transition is still in progress.
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22:45:54Aloneak, anyone know what was in the changelog by chance then?
22:46:56*dan_a goes to get the optimised memmove
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22:49:02preglowdan_a: wow, memcpy is used that much?
22:49:54dan_apreglow: I got the impression it was pretty important
22:51:23perl|workAlonea
22:51:24perl|workhey
22:51:37LloreanAlonea: You can access the changelog with svn log and then give it a range. Try svn log −−help for more information.
22:51:59preglowdan_a: for some reason i didn't think it was used that much in performance critical spots
22:52:07perl|workjust to let you know, theres a scroll option in text editor, you have to press POWER+left/right but you cant hold POWER for long for obvious reasons :P
22:52:10 Quit Mouser_X3 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:52:39dan_apreglow: Why would we bother doing asm optimised versions if it wasn't?
22:52:41GoofiLlorean: any idea for other name
22:53:05 Quit draggho (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22:54:21LloreanGoofi: #portablemp3 ?
22:54:41Goofihmm great
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22:55:48 Quit spiorf (Remote closed the connection)
22:56:14LloreanI think that one's better than mp3player anyway, since it says pretty clearly it's for the portable sort, not just the software ones or anything.
22:57:06dan_aI'll get a quick and dirty patch on the tracker, and other people can confirm if it's an improvement. There may be some bugs too - I'm not 100% sure yet
22:57:24Goofiyes
22:59:06AloneaLlorean: Ok, when I did the svn thing, it seemed it only put the new changes? So, I really only have to download the source code once, and when I go back, it will just put on the changes instead of recopying everything? Just making sure I am reading this correct
22:59:25AloneaLlorean: by svn thing I mean whats in the topic
22:59:59LloreanAlonea: Once you've downloaded it once, just go into the rockbox folder and to "svn update" to update it all to the newest version
23:00
23:01:02AloneaLlorean: and to "svn update" you do the thing thats in the topic?
23:01:24LloreanNo, you type "svn update" without the "s
23:01:46LloreanYou only need to do the think in the title the first time you get everything, or when you want a separate copy of everything
23:02:29Aloneaoh ok, lemme try this out. gimmie a couple mins. I think I screwed up my copy of the source code
23:02:51Aloneanope. didnt screw it up. good.
23:03:19Aloneaok. I gotcha now. thanks Llorean
23:05:07 Quit wolly-p ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
23:05:26Stalwartsvn is cool
23:05:37StalwartLlorean: is svn commit rss feed available now?
23:05:41 Join mofonyx [0] (n=weesim@resnet-167985.resnet.bris.ac.uk)
23:05:58mofonyxguys
23:06:07mofonyxmy rockbox'd ipod photo is stuck
23:06:21Stalwartunder bed?
23:06:24mofonyxtinkering around with plugins while playing music
23:06:25mofonyxnow music is stuck
23:06:25 Join Phalangees [0] (n=Phalange@adsl-75-51-38-230.dsl.milwwi.sbcglobal.net)
23:06:30AloneaOk, now I am compiling for the purpose of putting a patch on (the album art patch) do I need to reput that on, or does it stay? I dont think anything in the SVN has overwritten those files.
23:06:35mofonyxand ... the plugin is stuck as well
23:06:40mofonyxand i cant get it to reset
23:06:42mofonyxbah.
23:06:46mofonyxsolutions?
23:07:13Lloreanmofonyx: Hold Menu+Select
23:07:32mofonyxah awesome :)
23:07:32LloreanAlonea: If you've already patched, an svn update will merge the changes in.
23:07:33Phalangeessorry I can't find this, what version of arm-elf-gcc is the minimum that I need to compile?
23:07:46mofonyxi rmb that in the manual.. ;) thx Llorean
23:07:50LloreanPhalangees: 4.0.1 I believe is the minimum recommended.
23:08:03mofonyxam i not supposed to run plugins while playing music?
23:08:11AloneaLlorean: I think I officially love svn...
23:08:14PhalangeesLlorean: where can I grab that? I can't find it anywhere and the rockbox.sh script won't work
23:08:36LloreanPhalangees: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/CrossCompiler
23:08:44Phalangeesok thanks
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23:10:47***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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23:16:48 Quit mofonyx ("thanks, but what does this "x" do..")
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23:19:00pixelmapetur: I know it was a mere test but it seems like there is no commit message in your first svn commit. Just want to know if it was a TortoiseSVN problem too - or not :)
23:19:27 Join Xerion [0] (i=xerion@zarathul.student.utwente.nl)
23:19:31peturI'm not sure I typed something - let me check
23:20:29peturhmmm... the history is empty, maybe I forgot :(
23:20:51peturare there other tortoisesvn issues?
23:21:09pixelmaI have no idea
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23:23:27dan_aWould any ipod/h10/Gigabeat users be good enough to test http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/6528 for me, and see if it improves performance at all
23:25:36 Quit daven (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:25:56Arathisdan_a: Do you mean general performance or something especially?
23:26:07 Quit lee-qid ("aufwiederbyebientotsayonara")
23:26:44LloreanArathis: Boost ratio during playback would be the most obvious.
23:27:03ArathisBoost ratio?
23:27:24dan_aIn info->debug->audio thread
23:27:26LloreanHow often the CPU has to speed up to keep the buffer filled.
23:27:40 Quit Juice^ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:27:51 Join Juice^ [0] (n=juice@213.167.96.196)
23:27:54GoofiLlorean: Just found there already exist here
23:28:04Goofia channel dedicated for it.
23:28:24pixelmaerrm... can the CPU boost/unboost on H10?
23:28:52dan_apixelma: I thought it could, but maybe Barry disabled it again
23:29:03LloreanI believe it's disabled due to stability issues.
23:29:18dan_aSo it is
23:29:37DraXhttp://rafb.net/p/g9no8A62.html
23:29:38DraXworks!
23:29:54DraXread out of tagcache :)
23:31:57DraXhttp://rafb.net/p/vaPJLn78.html
23:32:02DraXis the code
23:32:05DraXi'll clean it up in a bit
23:32:29Bagderanyone has a pending commit?
23:32:40Bagderwants one made
23:34:23 Join lee-qid [0] (n=liqid@p54967B28.dip.t-dialin.net)
23:35:48*Bagder did one
23:36:50*LinusN notices that his machine starts a build
23:36:56Bagder:-)
23:37:01 Nick Everybody is now known as Everybody|away (n=everybod@harpo.demon.co.uk)
23:37:41Nico_PLlorean: about the svn history : instead of giving -r and a range of dates or revisions, you can add −−limit n
23:37:57Nico_Pand -v will show the files concerned by each update
23:37:57dan_aI've never noticed how the builds become available one by one before
23:38:12Bagderthey did before as well
23:38:31dan_aI just didn't look at the right time
23:38:38preglowfancy-ass
23:38:53Nico_Pdan_a: where is it you are looking ?
23:39:08dan_aNico_P: build.rockbox.org
23:39:16Bagderthere are some quirks still, but at least it builds now
23:39:26Bagderon change I mean
23:40:17Bagderand zagor has viewvc running
23:40:53Zagorbehold the beauty at http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi
23:41:13Zagorneeds a wash and rinse, but at least it's up
23:42:42Nico_Pwhat's all that's under "branches/" ?
23:43:03dan_aIt's looking good :D
23:43:22BagderNico_P: it is the common way to do branching using svn
23:43:38Mikachuyou probably can't check that out on windows, rockbox and Rockbox :)
23:43:38Bagdersvn doesn't do branches like cvs
23:43:48Arathisdan_a: 'patch -p0 < arm-asm-memcpy.diff'?
23:43:53Mikachu(not that you'd want to check out /branches/ anyway)
23:44:03 Quit tvelocity ("Αποχώρησε")
23:44:08dan_aArathis: either p0 or p1
23:44:08Nico_PBagder: i'm not really familiar with the concept :)
23:44:34Nico_Pit's an alternative version ?
23:44:44Bagderthey're all just dirs
23:44:51Bagderbut we work on 'trunk'
23:45:03Bagderand we do "branches" or "tags" by copying trunk to another dir
23:45:10bluebrother^Zagor, clicking a "diff to previous <number>" fails.
23:45:51Zagorbluebrother^: thanks, I'll look at that
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23:46:36dan_aBagder: Are we planning to make use of the branches? Or carry on the way we did with CVS
23:46:49BagderI think we can carry on like before
23:46:49 Quit Stalwart (Remote closed the connection)
23:46:56Bagderuntil we find a reason to change
23:47:08bluebrother^btw, regarding this reorganisation-wiki-manual-website-everything mail: is it possible mod_rewrite-ing the twiki/bin/view/Main/<pagename> thing to say simply /wiki/<pagename>?
23:47:19Bagderit really should be
23:47:31Bagderand yes, that'd be nice ;-)
23:47:51Mikachuthe tricky part is making the links point to /wiki/<pagename>
23:47:56LinusNyes
23:47:58bluebrother^changing the links in the manual should be an easy run :D
23:48:48Bagderwe need to poke on more server admins to convert to svn
23:48:58Bagderwe're only 8 servers done atm
23:49:20Bagderthe nice part is that the script detects the bad servers by itself
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23:50:00pixelmaZagor: I hope it's not only my fault - but "annotate" fails too
23:50:09Mikachuwhy do insects fly into ears, what do they expect to find?
23:50:47 Quit ender` (" Marriage is not a word, it's a sentence. A life sentence...")
23:52:27 Quit petur ("sssssssssss---------PLOP!")
23:52:53Zagorpixelma: ok. the script is running in a chroot, so it requires a bit extra hand-holding to set up
23:54:06Nico_PBagder: do the build servers have to recompile everything at each commit ?
23:54:21Bagderyes, unless ccache saves them from doing it
23:54:48Nico_Pcouldn't they try svn up to minimise what needs recompiling ?
23:55:01Bagderthey do svn up
23:55:13Bagderand we want the full builds for test
23:55:18Bagderand we want the zips for download
23:55:19Nico_Pah, so they don't keep what they've compiled ?
23:55:39Bagderwe want all commits to be able to build fully from scratch
23:55:47Bagderso we don't keep anything
23:55:55LloreanNico_P: How exactly do I do what you described with −−limit? What's it an argument for?
23:56:08BagderLlorean: "svn log −−limit 10"
23:56:14LloreanI just tried that
23:56:15Bagderto list the 10 last entries
23:56:16LloreanAs in, exactly that.
23:56:17Nico_Pi use svn log -v −−limit 5
23:56:31LloreanInvalid option: −−limit
23:56:55Bagderwhat svn version?
23:57:08LloreanWow, 1.1.4
23:57:26Bagdercaveman!
23:57:45LloreanI just apt-get installed it on the old vmware image.
23:57:51LloreanWhich is of course, debian stable.
23:58:01Bagderah, right
23:58:27LloreanWell at least my ancient technology didn't mess anything else up.

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