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#rockbox log for 2007-03-01

00:00:33jhMikeSrather astounding I don't make that typo more often
00:00:41jhMikeSor ever, even
00:02:04obopetur: I think 5495 should be fixed by changing the way that the changed_event callback works instead of calling scrobbler directly within the playback code - otherwise there would be issues with the HWCODEC targets? (calling /apps from /firmware?)
00:02:38amiconnahaaaaa!
00:02:43amiconnMy theory was correct
00:02:51jhMikeSeverything seems to end up getting hacked into playback.c somehow
00:02:52peturobo: I'm not familiar with the code but maybe I should dive into it
00:03:08preglowamiconn: i get a lot of compiler warnings from functions taking function pointers when taking a function with ICODE_ATTR before its declaration here
00:03:08*amiconn now has an even more weird progress bar with 36 marks spread onto only 112 pixels
00:04:09obopetur: I tried to fix it that way, but got lost in playback.c - I think I managed to get the first track to log, but all others then caused 2 events
00:04:18linuxstbDoes hwcodec load the next track info even if the next track isn't buffered?
00:04:21amiconn...and apart from the fact that the subtrack skip doesn't unpause, it works now (!!!)
00:04:31amiconnlinuxstb: nope
00:04:56amiconnNext track info is only available on hwcodec if the track is at least partially buffered
00:08:28 Quit bluebrother ("leaving")
00:09:09 Quit midkay ("Leaving")
00:10:43jhMikeSpreglow: like pcm playback stuff? you have to use far pointers now or something? (in re: to removing long calls)
00:10:46preglowamiconn: how do you think we tell gcc that mem* is long_call when it uses them itself for struct init and such? :/
00:11:00preglowjhMikeS: pointers are always far
00:11:07preglowjhMikeS: it's just a semantic issue
00:11:13 Quit roolku ()
00:11:15amiconneurgh....
00:11:18preglowjhMikeS: the functions have a section attribute, but a function type can't have a section attribute
00:11:23jhMikeSdin't know if the changes changed that :\
00:11:25preglowbut gcc still nags
00:12:00*preglow wonders if gcc has a flag for not using mem*
00:12:04preglowbut i think it requires them
00:12:11 Quit lee-qid ("aufwiederbyebientotsayonara")
00:12:18jhMikeSextern void foobar (void) __attribute__ ((section ("bar")));
00:13:37jhMikeSoh, never mind I misready badly :P
00:13:43jhMikeSmisread even
00:13:58peturobo: if the logfile says S it means skipped, right? Well I played the track 3/4 pressed stop and is is marked 'S'
00:14:00 Quit Febs (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:14:31oboYup, S is skipped. Is that with 6213 applied?
00:14:41peturboth
00:15:41oboweird - I thought the end of play issues were solved by that patch - I'll have to take another look at it again tomorrow
00:16:07obowhich target was that on?
00:16:19peturh300
00:16:29oboI guess those have a real stop button?
00:16:39peturyes
00:16:50petur...which I used
00:16:59obookay - I've only got an ipod, so might have missed something there
00:17:02Nico_Pamiconn: well done and thanks for looking into it
00:17:14Nico_Pi'm sorry i didn't answer, i was on the phone
00:17:23amiconnNico_P: I'll commit the gwps-common fix soonish
00:17:30Nico_Pcool :)
00:17:32jhMikeSpreglow: dllexport? :P
00:17:37amiconnJust want dmdfan to test whether it also fixes his issue
00:17:42Nico_Pso what's the state ? it works on HWCODEC ?
00:17:52amiconnNot fully, and it's a hack
00:18:01Nico_Pok
00:18:23amiconnFirst issue is that I did tha badness and just declared two apps/ functions directly in mpeg.c
00:18:34amiconnThat's for testing of course
00:18:49amiconnThe other issue is that skipping subtracks doesn't unpause
00:19:22jhMikeSpreglow: I think it's long_call/short_call, fer real. "This attribute specifies how a particular function is called on ARM."
00:19:22amiconn...so that if you skip, playback ends up paused. Manual unpausing makes it continue from where it should (i.e. the skip destination)
00:19:43Nico_Pthat would be in cuesheet.c:curr_cuesheet_skip()
00:19:54jhMikeSdoes it have that attribute or am I just spewing?
00:20:11Nico_Pactuallay no, seek()
00:21:04Nico_Pthere's a special #ifdef for HWCODEC and it does lack un unpause call
00:21:12preglowdllexport?
00:21:22preglowwhat?
00:22:38 Quit obo ("bye")
00:24:16preglowARGHG
00:25:36preglowamiconn: i don't seem to have much luck with this
00:26:46Nico_Pamiconn: can i let you add the audio_resume() call ad part of your commit ?
00:26:51Nico_Ps/ad/as
00:27:10 Quit rotator ()
00:27:42 Join Mouser_X [0] (n=mouser_x@67.110.120.159.ptr.us.xo.net)
00:28:42amiconnNico_P: I think the audio_pause() call is unnecessary
00:29:22Nico_Pwell at some places where seeking is done there is such an #if to call audio_pause() for HWCODEC targets
00:29:39Nico_Pi just assumed it was required, having no targets to test on
00:30:26 Join fasmaie [0] (n=yohann@71.233.79.102)
00:30:36amiconnAfaik that's just to pause while seeking interactively, i.e. while holding 'left' or 'Right'
00:31:13 Part LinusN
00:32:12Nico_Pok
00:34:05pregloweven with ICODE_ATTR both at def and decl, i still get truncated relocations from time to time
00:34:12jhMikeSpreglow: no, long_call/short_call? :) doesn't work?
00:35:36jhMikeSpersonally I'd try those out
00:35:42preglowlong_call is embedded in ICODE_ATTR
00:35:51preglowso i use that
00:36:02jhMikeSah...so never mind my bs ;)
00:36:05preglowusing short_call would mean tagging everything not ICODE_ATTR with an attribute, which is a bit of work :)
00:36:15amiconnNico_P: Hmm, seems you're right
00:36:32amiconnweirdo playback eingine
00:38:59amiconnSeems to work. Now how to get rid of da baaad hack?
00:39:17 Join Llorean [0] (n=Llorean@cpe-66-69-210-194.austin.res.rr.com)
00:42:41 Quit entheh ("^~")
00:44:41*jhMikeS doesn't get why more of these function attributes aren't just available on all CPUs that can have them...particularly regparm and naked
00:45:00preglowgcc...
00:45:44 Join Domonoky [0] (n=Domonoky@p549ACA6E.dip.t-dialin.net)
00:46:08jhMikeSand how'd they ever end up not including the tpf instruction in the assembler...very odd
00:46:33amiconntpf *is* included in the assembler
00:47:09amiconnBut you can't use it the way it makes most sense - putting another instruction as the data part of tpf.w or tpf.l
00:47:22preglowexactly
00:47:39amiconnI honestly can't imagine how that should look in clean assembler syntax...
00:47:42preglowhrmrhr
00:47:53preglowswitch_thread gives me relocation errors everywhere
00:49:05 Join Ribs [0] (n=ribs@91.84.8.218)
00:50:10jhMikeSit's alway .word 0x51fx ... ick
00:51:02 Join BigMac [0] (n=mike@c-71-234-95-131.hsd1.ct.comcast.net)
00:51:03Kasperlecan't you make a macro to beautify that a bit?
00:51:17jhMikeSI think if I saw tpf.l in the assembler I'd get the idea :)
00:52:07amiconnIt's either 0x51fa or 0x51fb
00:52:09jhMikeSthere should be ... good idea, I'll see about making one
00:52:13Nico_Pamiconn: thanks for the commits :)
00:52:14 Quit ender` (" In the beginning, there was nothing. And God said, 'Let there be Light.' And there was still nothing, but you could see a bi)
00:52:26jhMikeSit can have no extension words to be a noop instruction
00:52:33amiconn...depending on whether you want .w or .l
00:52:35 Quit CriamosAndy ("( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.03 :: www.XLhost.de )")
00:52:49amiconnYes, but then you can just write the instruction
00:53:03preglowamiconn: i had to move mem* out of iram or gcc threw a zillion truncated relocation warnings only about those :/
00:53:19jhMikeSthat works? just tpf? I don't recall if I actually ever did it.
00:53:37Nico_Pamiconn: there migth be other cases of seeking without unpausing in gwps.c, relating to when we want to seek to the beginning
00:53:59 Quit inversions (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:54:00 Quit petur ("ZzzZzz")
00:54:19 Join Febs__ [0] (n=chatzill@207-172-204-33.c3-0.rdl-ubr4.trpr-rdl.pa.cable.rcn.com)
00:54:20 Nick Febs__ is now known as Febs (n=chatzill@207-172-204-33.c3-0.rdl-ubr4.trpr-rdl.pa.cable.rcn.com)
00:54:46jhMikeSyeah, macro sounds like a good idea ... looks better
00:56:41preglowi don't have a problem with the .word approach
00:56:53amiconnjhMikeS: Either tpf or trapf should work
00:57:10jhMikeStrapf ... isn't that an entirely different thing?
00:58:21amiconnnope
00:58:49*jhMikeS is thinking about TRAP
00:59:45 Join midkay [0] (n=midkay@rockbox/developer/midkay)
01:00
01:00:23jhMikeSguess I can call exception vectors whenever with that :P
01:02:13 Quit BHSPitMonkey (Connection timed out)
01:04:35preglowbah
01:04:43preglowgccs long call handling leaves a hell of a lot to be desired
01:05:16jhMikeSpreglow: I _am_ happy to hear though that's really it's only major flaw
01:05:22amiconnNothing new...
01:06:18amiconnjhMikeS: trap and trapf are related insofar as trapf means "trap false", i.e. a trap that is guaranteed to be never taken...
01:08:35jhMikeSi understand. it seems gcc spits out a whole different bunch of mnemonics esp. with branch instructions so doesn't suprise me it has aliases for tpf
01:09:51 Quit fasmaie (Remote closed the connection)
01:10:00jhMikeSI'm guessing the freescale lit. wanted to eliminate confusion between trapf and trap by using tpf :\
01:11:09amiconnMCF5249UM.pdf also calls it trapf
01:11:25amiconn..while CFPRM calls it tpf
01:11:46jhMikeSI've been using CFPRM for instruction ref
01:12:07 Quit Ribs ("eh eh ehhhh!")
01:13:18*jhMikeS sees "Cowon" written on a piece of paper and starts barking at it. :P
01:14:57 Quit Juice^ ("Leaving")
01:15:05amiconnHmmmmm, +86 bytes for the callback logic
01:16:07preglowbah
01:16:14preglowi can't be bothered with this shit much longer
01:16:16*jhMikeS though rb code size was measured in millibytes
01:16:52preglowswitch_thread() is defined ICODE_ATTR in both thread.c and thread.h, yet almost all the other functions in thread.c get truncated relocations
01:17:03preglowwhen calling it
01:17:40 Quit Mouser_X (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:17:47amiconnDoes thread.c include thread.h ?
01:18:10preglowamiconn: yes
01:19:51*Domonoky could need testers for rbutil (especially h10, iaudio and gigabeat, but be carefull, they are untested)
01:20:17preglowamiconn: what i've done so far is just remove -mlong-calls and do the ICODE_ATTR replacement thing
01:20:40*Domonoky also nearly finished Theme installing in rbutil (with themes from www.rockbox-themes.org)
01:20:59Domonokythere is now a patch for this on the tracker
01:21:24***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:22:25preglowamiconn: and looking at the assembler output, it's no wonder, gcc just goes ahead and uses bl for it
01:22:38preglowbl switch_thread
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01:28:06 Quit linuxstb ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
01:31:17 Part toffe
01:33:13Nico_Pamiconn: are you still against the cuesheet concept or are you starting to like it a bit ? :)
01:33:28amiconnI'm still against the concept. Strictly.
01:33:39amiconnBut I'm even more against half-working features
01:35:20Nico_Pwell thanks for making it work
01:35:20amiconn...and the subtrack support might be useful for when multi-track files get supported
01:35:44Nico_Pwhat do you have in mind ?
01:35:48amiconnThat's another odd concept imho, but those files exist and unlike with .cue there is no easy workaround
01:36:03amiconnI mean things like multi-track mods
01:36:27Nico_Pi tjink i tried to have a look at those, but they are strange things
01:36:33Nico_Pthey have no length
01:36:48amiconnIt depends on th eformat whether they have a length
01:37:07amiconnI'm not (only) talking sid here, in fact I'm not interested in sid
01:37:25Nico_Pah yes i'm probably confused with sid
01:38:10preglowif they have no lengths, you use a default length until we have metadata support
01:38:21pregloweven sids can have length, but they're all stored in a long textfile database
01:38:34amiconnThe build system seems to be almost asleep....
01:39:54barrywardell_Domonoky: you want me to test rbutil on my H10?
01:39:57Nico_Pi'll try to have a look at MOD
01:40:11Nico_Pthe one i'd love to have is MP4 chapters
01:40:23amiconnNico_P: The only place where I actually use .cue files is when copying audio CDs. I prefer to rip with EAC but EAC can't handle my burner, so I rip to .wav+.cue then burn with nero
01:40:37amiconnBut that's temporary use, i.e. rip->burn->delete
01:40:48 Join MonkeyTamer [0] (n=chatzill@207.62.156.85)
01:40:50amiconn...and it's only for keeping the CD structure
01:41:04Nico_Pcues are very popular when it comes to live DJ sets
01:41:09preglowNico_P: mod doesn't need subtrack support
01:41:35 Quit YouCeyE (Remote closed the connection)
01:41:49amiconnpreglow: There are many mod formats which can have multiple subtracks
01:42:19amiconnNico_P: Maybe because so many players failing on proper gapless?
01:42:47Domonokybarrywardell_ only if you know how to restore it if something goes wrong :-)
01:42:55barrywardell_I do
01:42:59Nico_Pamiconn: probably, yes. but that makes it cool to have cue support in rockbox
01:43:01Domonokynice, thx
01:43:10amiconnMy CD I used for making the test cue/mp3 is a live dj set, and I can play it gapless on all my targets when split into multiple mp3s
01:43:18barrywardell_what do I need to do? just compile and run it?
01:43:29barrywardell_from SVN?
01:43:45Nico_Pamiconn: that's what i used to do too, but it's nice not to have to bother cutting the files
01:43:49Domonokyon linux you need to compile (and need wxwidgets2.8)
01:44:02Domonokyund windows or mac there are binarys on the wiki
01:44:09Nico_Pbut i don't use much cues either
01:44:35Domonokyso linux is difficult (you need also to complile wxWidgets 2.8 )
01:44:38amiconnI didn't have to cut them, I ripped them as multiple filess...
01:45:03Nico_Pactually i was thinking about live mixex i download
01:45:21 Join YouCeyE [0] (n=YouCeyE@unaffiliated/youceye)
01:45:27barrywardell_i'm on linux. I'll figure it out
01:45:45Nico_Pok, time for me to go to bed
01:45:52Nico_Pbye
01:46:03 Quit Nico_P (Remote closed the connection)
01:46:06Domonokyyou can also tty the linux binarys on the wiki, but there are not likely to work
01:49:34 Quit amiconn (" reboot")
01:52:53 Join amiconn [0] (n=jens@p54BD6FE9.dip.t-dialin.net)
01:53:19preglowperhaps i should try again to remap the iram...
01:58:20 Quit BigMac (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:00
02:00:45*amiconn wonders how that would help
02:01:11preglowif i in some fantastical and magical way could put it below sram...
02:01:45amiconn(1) it would also require to put sdram on an address which is not an integer multiple of its size
02:01:58preglowindeed
02:02:01amiconn(2) even then we'd run into problems with 64MB
02:02:25preglowit's is extremely improbable, yes
02:02:37 Join JdGordon [0] (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
02:02:38preglowbut i have no idea what i'm doing wrong here now
02:02:49preglowgcc generates code which flies directly in the face of what i tell it to
02:03:05*amiconn thinks that a gcc rework might help here
02:03:07JdGordonlooks like ill be learning arm assembl this semster... hopefully that will come in handy here :p
02:03:08*amiconn hides
02:03:17preglowamiconn: yes, feel free to learn how gcc owrks
02:03:23preglowi've tried several times
02:03:27preglowalso given up equally many times
02:03:35preglowbut then i'm not the most persistant man ever
02:04:20amiconnAlready tried -fno-optimize-sibling-calls ?
02:04:41preglownot at all
02:04:42preglowwill do now
02:04:44amiconnThis seems to be one thing gcc likes to stumble upon
02:05:01preglowsame stuff
02:05:15amiconnIt tries to be smarter than the coder, and then falls over itself
02:05:57preglowi wonder have ads deals with stuff like this
02:06:04preglowperhaps there's a manual for it somewhere
02:06:15amiconn?
02:06:31preglowarm developer suite
02:06:34preglowthe best arm assembler
02:06:37pregloweh
02:06:38preglowcompiler
02:06:40amiconnoh ok
02:07:52amiconnBtw, any static functions involved?
02:08:46preglownot in this case, no
02:08:48 Quit YouCeyE (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
02:08:58preglowproblem is that a bunch of functions in thread.c try to kall switch_thread non-long
02:09:14preglowincluding block_thread, sleep_thread, remove_thread
02:09:16preglownone are static
02:09:25preglowkall, nice one
02:09:55amiconnEasier to understand than 'have ads'
02:10:05preglowheh
02:10:14amiconn...especially since 'ads' usually stand for something I do not want here
02:10:24 Join YouCeyE [0] (n=YouCeyE@unaffiliated/youceye)
02:10:39 Join BigMac [0] (n=mike@c-71-234-95-131.hsd1.ct.comcast.net)
02:11:38*amiconn wonders what gcc is doing there
02:12:43BigMacHey, sorry if this is a bit rude, but why is this not included in the SVN
02:12:49BigMachttp://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/4760
02:13:20preglowbecause it smells bad
02:13:32preglowi really have no idea
02:13:39preglowthe guy has commit access himself
02:13:51BigMacHmm
02:14:00Mikachui think people had some complaints, don't really remember
02:14:02amiconnBah, not another of those ooold discussions again...
02:14:09BigMacI have never used the patch but it looks like a great patch
02:14:27LloreanBigMac: It doesn't look like it's fully cross-target yet.
02:14:52BigMacOh, a patch has to be committed for all targets?
02:14:57amiconnIt would give us 2 calendards which aren't cross-target
02:15:04preglowwe have a calendar?
02:15:06LloreanBigMac: A plugin should work on all targets.
02:15:14BigMacOh ok
02:15:17LloreanBigMac: Or all targets it can be made to work on.
02:15:20barrywardell_Domonoky: anything I need to pass to configure for wxwidgets?
02:15:21amiconnOn all targets where it makes sense
02:15:28preglowwhat's it called?
02:15:32BigMacbut viewers are a different story right?
02:15:33pixelmaRTC
02:15:37amiconn...which are, in this case, all targets which feature an RTC
02:15:51BigMacIs RTC in black and white?
02:15:58amiconnpreglow: surprise - 'calendar'
02:15:59BigMacwell not black and white
02:16:04*preglow finds no calendar on nano
02:16:06amiconnIt's recorder only
02:16:10BigMacblack and purplish
02:16:12preglowahahah
02:16:12Domonokyi think −−disable-shared is alle what is needed
02:16:20amiconn...back from when there was nothing but archos
02:16:23LloreanBigMac: RTC means Real Time Clock
02:16:25pregloweven more unportable than this one, then
02:16:28amiconn...even from before Ondio times
02:16:40LloreanBigMac: And which viewer were you referring to specifically?
02:16:52LloreanBigMac: I mean, why do you think viewers are a different story for some reason?
02:16:53preglowthis one is portable to tons of stuff, it seems
02:17:21BigMacLlorean: I am not sure, but i thought rockboy did not work on the nano
02:17:44LloreanBigMac: Rockboy dates back to before there was a Nano port. When it happened, it ran on the one single target that could support it.
02:17:52preglowwhat would be cool is if the calendar could record small voice clips
02:17:58LloreanBigMac: And it does work on the Nano now, and has for a good amount of time at this point.
02:18:10BigMacOh ok
02:18:24 Quit Mouser_X (Nick collision from services.)
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02:18:48barrywardell_could the one in FS not replace the existing calendar? or would it be better to update the calendar in SVN for newer targets?
02:18:49LloreanBigMac: Basically, a plugin should work on all targets where it makes sense before it's included, then _hopefull_ people will update it to new targets as Rockbox comes to them, but sometimes larger hurdles (like the Nano's screen attributes) keep it from happening for a while.
02:19:12 Nick barrywardell_ is now known as barrywardell (n=barry@host-194-46-246-78.dsl-ie.utvinternet.net)
02:19:54BigMacH3xx,H100,iPod 3/4 G, Archos Ondio/Recorder, iAudio X5
02:20:02amiconnbarrywardell: No it can't, because it doesn't work on the target where the svn calendar does
02:20:08BigMacwell what other targets would it need to be on
02:20:30LloreanBigMac: Which leaves off Gigabeat, 5G iPod, H10 20gb, H10 5/6gb
02:20:39LloreanAnd probably Sandisk Sansa e200 should be done too, at this point.
02:20:41amiconnThe Ondio has no RTC
02:20:50Lloreanamiconn: Neither did the H100 back then.
02:21:03barrywardellamiconn: yes, but if it was adapted to the remaining targets
02:21:03LloreanIt'd still be useful for marking down events on specific dates.
02:21:14MonkeyTamerhas the root menu been committed or not? Sorry if I'm just blind and did not see the commit on the front page, but I tried to patch and it claimed the svn had already been patched on a free revision
02:21:25preglowMonkeyTamer: no, but i don't think it'll be long
02:21:25amiconnbarrywardell: Yes, sure, but that didn't happen, even though suggested. More than once.
02:21:25barrywardellit does work on H10 20GB too
02:21:39BigMachmm
02:21:49MonkeyTameroh ok, cool, thanks
02:21:56pixelmaMonkeyTamer: that is because the patch is not clean - hasn't been committed yet
02:22:00amiconnIt's a question of adapting to varying screen sizes (small screen in this case)
02:22:02BigMacI thought it said somewhere that it was on the 5g but I was probably just reading what I wanted to see
02:22:03Lloreanbarrywardell: I was just responding to BigMac's list.
02:22:58*amiconn would still like to disable rtc support in the official H1x0 builds
02:23:00preglowamiconn: it can't be commited because it doesn't support the one target the one in svn does, even when commiting it would add support for loads more targets than just the old one?
02:23:15preglowodd reasoning
02:23:40LloreanIt really should be updated to support 'all' targets, though
02:23:40preglowbut it should of course support all targets
02:23:43preglowindeed
02:23:47amiconnIt could, but it shouldn't
02:24:06amiconnThen we would have 2 completely disjuct plugins for the same purpose in svn
02:24:15preglowamiconn: no, we boot out the old one and put in the new one
02:24:19barrywardellLlorean: ah, ok
02:24:34preglowamiconn: it seems like tons less work to adapt this one to the other platforms than the old one to the newer platforms
02:24:48amiconnpreglow: And remove calendar support from the target where it already exists?
02:24:53*barrywardell agrees with preglow
02:25:01preglowamiconn: no, support should of course be added to the one in flyspray
02:25:04pixelmabarrywardell: what about the 5/6GB H10?
02:25:25amiconnpreglow: Yes, but then that should happen *before* removing the other
02:25:51barrywardelldunno. haven't tested that in the sim. obviously that should be added it would go into svn
02:25:54amiconnI have no problems with new plugins being a superset of old ones
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02:26:22amiconnThat already happened, dunno how often
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02:27:16preglowjhMikeS: you do sin quite a bit against the 80 col rule here and there
02:27:19barrywardellhmm. with so many targets, creating a plugin is quite a lot of effort
02:27:28preglowindeed
02:27:44LloreanBut others can pitch in.
02:28:03barrywardellamiconn: why not keep the existing one for the target it works on and have the new one for the newer (bitmap?) targets
02:28:30Lloreanbarrywardell: How is that better than just getting the new one more cross-target?
02:28:53jhMikeSpreglow: anything in particular that's oob? the asm is a pain to keep that way but the c should be < 80
02:29:58barrywardellLlorean: not better, but easier.
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02:30:08preglowjhMikeS: yeah, i guess i can agree on the asm
02:30:18gsaathoffhey all
02:30:26pixelmabarrywardell: but not for the manual writers ;)
02:30:54preglowjhMikeS: i'll tell you if i see anything else
02:30:55barrywardelltrue. i agree that the best route is to adapt the new one to all targets.
02:31:21jhMikeSpreglow: did I suddenly create a pita situation with all the pointer calls in dsp.c for arm or anything ? :o
02:32:01preglowjhMikeS: don't think so, no
02:32:16jhMikeSgood 'cause it work so durn well for that :)
02:32:18preglowwhy would pointer calls matter for arm?
02:32:38jhMikeSI have no idea...just wondering given what's going on removing long calls
02:33:05Lloreanbarrywardell: I also think that allowing plugins in without cross-target support pretty much removes any incentive for the original author to even try for it outside their own desire, since their desire for having their code included can then be attained without it. Which means, to me, there's a chance of more fractioning between target 'features'
02:33:08preglowthose instructions are only used for fixed position relative calls
02:33:23preglowif you jump through a pointer, you always load the pointer to a reg first then jump to that, so no worries there
02:33:35barrywardellLlorean: yes, I do agree with that point
02:33:40JdGordonpixelma: hey, I read last nights logs, and im ok with making left stay in /
02:34:51*JdGordon 's connection to svn. is still down, so wont be commitning before sunrise your time...
02:35:05preglowjhMikeS: you're absolutely sure doing a seperate pass for each channel in the sampler is faster?
02:35:09preglowjhMikeS: seems a bit counterintuitive to me
02:35:41preglowseparate, even
02:37:08preglowresampler...
02:37:35pixelmaJdGordon: just make sure that some agreement is there
02:37:56JdGordonthats the impression I got from the logs
02:38:23jhMikeSpreglow: I never got to doing both channels at once but the channel loop was better then being unrolled
02:38:49jhMikeSRegister allocation might be ok if I don't have to preserve the original address registers
02:39:55preglowah, yes, i can imagine rolling that loop would be faster
02:39:58preglowsmall point in not doing so
02:40:12pixelmaJdGordon: yes, got the same impression. I just don't want to be the last one to comment on this ;)
02:40:41jhMikeSYes, I agree stereo should probably go in one pass though
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02:40:41LloreanJdGordon, pixelma: That's the impression I got too.
02:42:50pixelmaalright but I need some sleep now - night!
02:43:07jhMikeS...might even be a smaller function or not much larger anyway :\
02:43:11JdGordonand i need food
02:43:12JdGordonttyl
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02:45:37preglowjhMikeS: for arm i even wonder if i can use the conditional execution to put both in one loop
02:45:52preglowmono should be able to stand some cycles lost in each iteration
02:46:13jhMikeSto heck with with it, I'll just split things into mono/stereo versions and point to the correct routine...the channel checks and jumps might add up to almost as much
02:46:48jhMikeSwell, for that...I guess it's fine if you've got that. you can give a single function two names anyway
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02:51:52preglowat least i hope i have enough regs
02:52:04preglowfour for dst/src alone
02:52:11preglowhmm, which makes me remember
02:52:34preglowdownsampling should be possible in place
02:52:44preglowsomething we should definitely take advantage of
02:54:51jhMikeShowever for cf it doesn't have the nice iram buffer to write to
02:54:58jhMikeSnot guaranteed anyway
02:56:11jhMikeSwith not being allowed to write to the codecs buffer, it's back to using the temp buffer anyway :))
02:57:35preglowwhich iram buffer? the resampler buffer?
02:57:38preglowisn't that iram everywhere?
02:57:59preglowwriting to the codecs buffer isn't allowed? eh?
02:58:05preglowi thought that happened throughout
02:58:20jhMikeSI don't know. ...and doesn't it cheat and end up doing channel processing into the source?
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02:59:39jhMikeSI guess if conversion to internal format isn't done, gain isn't applied, and resampling isn't done, then yeah, that is what happens.
03:00
03:00:01preglowthere's no reason not to use the codec buffer, that's for sure
03:00:05preglowit's almost always big and in iram
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03:01:12jhMikeSif we could remove sample_buffer that would free some big iram
03:02:15jhMikeSresample_buffer could be used if resampling or not I think
03:02:40preglowsample_buffer is just used for cutting up chunks in processing, yes?
03:02:53preglowi don't see why we'd ever need a helper buffer unless resampling
03:03:06jhMikeSyes and I learned crossfade atm doesn't like huge chunks
03:03:13preglowthen it should be fixed
03:03:30jhMikeSI should ... one of those things the mixboard would just make go away
03:03:42preglowbut yeah, if you ask me, we should try to keep all the action in the buffer we get from the codec as far as possible
03:03:44jhMikeSIt should
03:03:56preglowit's big, and it's almost always iram
03:04:05preglowif not always
03:04:21preglowbigger chunks is good and iram is good, which equals \o/
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03:07:40jhMikeS:) I suppose one temp alone is enough for when conversion is needed...and only that which grows data size.
03:07:45BigMacuhh running svn co svn://svn.rockbox.org/rockbox/trunk rockbox does nothing at all in a terminal in ubuntu 6.1
03:08:44Soapnothing as in you don't see any progress (straight back to prompt) or nothing as in an error or?
03:09:40BigMacAh fixed
03:09:53jhMikeSthe sizes passed to pcm buffer will have to stay down in the short term but it can be uncapped later
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03:11:42preglowjhMikeS: i look forward to your mixer concept, that's for sure
03:14:55jhMikeSone thing with resampling in place: the source values can't be read repeatedly like now
03:15:12preglowindeed not
03:15:54jhMikeSthe cf upsampling already avoids it at least so no work there :)
03:16:18preglowyeah, but you can't upsample in place anyway
03:17:41jhMikeSIt can if we use one temp buffer and place the source samples at the end. The resampler won't know.
03:18:57preglowdoesn't seem like there's much of a point anymore then
03:19:13preglowhm, forget that
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03:20:02preglowi'm too tired for this stuff now
03:20:04preglowi'll call it a night
03:20:05preglowlater
03:20:09jhMikeSgnight
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03:21:52BigMachttp://rafb.net/p/OSPwI666.html
03:22:02BigMacCan anyone help me fix that error
03:23:21LloreanWell, did you install the cross compiler?
03:23:56BigMacUhh I installed the arm packages if that is what you mean?
03:24:44LloreanI don't know what you mean by "the arm packages"...
03:25:25LloreanDo you mean "I ran rockboxdev.sh and chose arm" or "I manually installed arm-elf-gcc following the instructions on the CrossCompiler wiki page"?
03:25:33BigMacUhh let me be more specific
03:26:39BigMacI ran rockboxdev.sh
03:26:57BigMacand got the ones needed for the video
03:26:58LloreanAnd after doing so, did you add the appropriate folder to your path?
03:27:14BigMacUh we tried but never got it working
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03:27:41LloreanIf you never got that working, why are you confused at all about why compiling isn't working.
03:28:04LloreanThe error message even tells you specifically that it's not finding arm-elf-gcc in your path.
03:28:55LloreanUntil you manage to get it properly added to your path, you're going to get that message.
03:29:00BigMacBecause I am not sure how to get it working/what was not working
03:29:29LloreanYou knew that had to be working though, you just said you'd tried to add it to your path before and failed...
03:29:41LloreanAnd then you get an error message saying "It's not in the path"
03:30:01LloreanIt seems somewhat evident that "what was not working" is "It's not in the path"
03:30:31LloreanUnfortunately, I can't help you with that, I'm not very familiar with how to properly add things to the path.
03:30:54BigMacOk well if anyone comes around who can, please just speak
03:31:27LloreanBigMac: You could make use of Google and do a little research on your own.
03:31:53BigMacok
03:31:54LloreanLearning how to add things to the path of the operating system you choose to use seems to be something useful beyond just Rockbox.
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03:40:59jhulstCould I get write access to the Wiki please? I am working on creating a port to the Creative Zen Vision M
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03:52:55JdGordondoes anyone know how to tunnel svn access through ssh?
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04:15:24AaronHey
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04:17:05gigabeatf30hello
04:17:18gigabeatf30hello
04:17:38gigabeatf30how is everyone
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04:20:06gigabeatf30hello
04:22:05Aaronhey
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04:24:14bonbonthejonhi
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04:24:52mrmemehi
04:24:57Aaronhey
04:25:08mrmemeCan someone tell me if you can use DRM files with rockbox
04:25:22mrmemei know everyone hates them....you don't have to tell me that
04:25:23alienbiker99nope
04:25:44mrmemeso they won't play at all?
04:26:05Soapnope
04:26:11Soapand never will
04:27:05bonbonthejonmrmeme: there are ways to get rid of the DRM and convert to mp3 or something rockbox will play
04:27:17mrmemehow might you do that?
04:27:33alienbiker99line in recording or semi illegal methods
04:27:36Soapanywhere else but Rockbox
04:27:50bonbonthejonmrmeme: ive never tried it, google it
04:27:54mrmemewhy won't it ever support DRM?
04:28:02alienbiker99cause it would be illegal to support it
04:28:12bonbonthejonmrmeme: an easy way is to burn the songs to CD, then re-rip the songs
04:28:42AaronDoes anyone have an Archos Jukebox?
04:28:54mrmemehmm...i only pay 10 dollars a month for 3000 DRM songs so I don't see what everyone thinks is such a bad deal with that
04:29:04Soapfreenode in general, and Rockbox in specific is not really the place to be discussing bypassing DRM or other copyright enforcement methods.
04:29:31mrmemewell i'm not really interested in doing that anyway
04:29:39SoapEspecially when you are talking about doing it to rented songs, not purchased ones.
04:29:44alienbiker99than rockbox isnt for you i guess
04:30:24mrmemeIf you rent the songs legally why would it be illegal for rockbox to allow you to play the songs
04:30:28SoapRockbox won't support DRM because DRM depends on security through obscurity.
04:30:59SoapYou have the songs in an encrypted format, you have the encryption key on your player.
04:31:02 Quit donvito ("Anacna "If it should exist, it doesn't"")
04:31:16mrmemeI see, thanks for your help
04:31:20SoapThe only reason the system works is because the lay man doesn't know how to use the key outside the context of their closed-source player.
04:32:03mrmemewhich is fine if you understand you are simply helping people receive compensation for their property
04:32:07SoapRockbox is an open source player. If it was to implement DRM, the key would be in plain sight. Anyone now could use said key in any method they wished.
04:32:19mrmemeOK i understand now
04:32:23mrmemeThank You
04:32:26SoapNo content provider would give a key to an open source project.
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04:34:14bonbonthejonSoap: which decoder is better in rockbox, mp3 or ogg?
04:34:24Soapdefine better?
04:34:47bonbonthejonSoap: my ipod g4 has small pauses in mp3 playback, I'm trying to figure out how to fix it
04:35:07Soapare you using a WPS with the peak meters?
04:35:23SoapDo you have the software EQ cranked up? Some other CPU intensive options?
04:35:42bonbonthejonSoap: no, i'm using llama beta, I believe EQ is turned off
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04:36:17Soapllama beta?
04:36:26bonbonthejonSoap: WPS
04:37:59bonbonthejonalso when I go into the main menu, many times the disk activity icon shows and the menu is very slow
04:40:44alienbiker99what build do you have
04:42:03bonbonthejonr12522-070228
04:42:04Soapif you don't have the EQ on, that does sound overly dogish.
04:42:42bonbonthejonSoap: i think eq might have been on, even though I dont remember turning it on
04:42:55bonbonthejonSoap: it hasnt skipped yet, i'm trying it out
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04:43:26Soapevery band you enable on the EQ sucks more and more wind out of your sails.
04:44:16bonbonthejonSoap: yeah, why isn't the patch for using both processors in ipod put into the main code
04:44:29Soapbecause it isn't done.
04:45:00bonbonthejonthat explains it
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04:47:19AaronAre the Archos Jukebox's the only Rockbox compatible players that can have there harddrive upgraded to a very large size?
04:47:37jhulstCould I get write access to the Wiki please? I am working on creating a port to the Creative Zen Vision M
04:48:06Soapjhulst: you registered yet?
04:48:09jhulstyes
04:48:19SoapAaron: the only limit on most players is the avaliable hard drive sizes.
04:48:38Soapthe Archos line uses 2.5" drives, whereas most the others use 1.8" drives.
04:48:45AaronAhh
04:48:55SoapI don't think the 100 GB 1.8" drives are out yet.
04:49:05AaronAnd can the archos use SATA drives?
04:49:09Aaronthat are 2.5
04:49:09SoapI think the 80GB is the largest in the wild.
04:49:43SoapAaron: SATA has little in common with PATA outside the name. So, no.
04:50:15AaronSo then I think the largest hd that would work with the Archos is a 160 gig
04:50:17Soapwell, that' not all true - but the answer is.
04:50:34Soapname jhulst?
04:50:49Soapdoh
04:50:51Soapnevermind.
04:51:03AaronI just found one on Ebay that shows a picture on the displa saying File System Error, NO Valid FAT16/32 file system found. Please format drive.
04:51:09AaronThe description says: A hard drive upgrade was attempted but, accidentaly, all the system files were deleted. Item is sold AS IS; we were told that it has a 30 GB Hard Drive installed. However, the player cannot read the hard drive. This could be because of the system files or because the hard drive no longer works as it should have!
04:51:53AaronIs it more likely that there is just a bad HD or files in it, or is there a descent chance some cable or soldred PCB connection broke?
04:53:16Soapjhulst: you should be in.
04:53:56jhulstGot it, thanks
04:55:34AaronAny thoughts on that Soap?
04:55:51SoapNope, I don't have an archos.
04:57:49AaronFrom what I head the Archos should have as good of sound quality as my 5g ipod, I can put a big HD in it, and I don't care about the size
04:57:56AaronAnd the battery life would be way more than my Ipod
04:59:31alienbiker99what size hd do you want in it
04:59:46Aaron160 gigs
04:59:59AaronI think thats the biggest that I could get
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05:06:44JdGordonaliask: i might just do that...
05:06:50JdGordonnot much other options
05:07:02JdGordonbut there was more argument last night about the path... so i dunno :p
05:07:15aliaskgood to finally meet you too by the way
05:07:22JdGordon:)
05:07:23AaronDoes anyone have a comment about my battery situation?
05:07:46SoapIs the iPod under warranty?
05:07:54JdGordonim about to head off for a 2 hour lecture at caulfield... hopefully wireless works :p
05:08:00AaronYeah, but this is my issue
05:08:12AaronIf I use Itunes to restore it, it will update my firmware
05:08:28JdGordonaliask: can you get to svn. yet?
05:08:44Aaronand if I bring the Ipod in they may either A, put a new battery in in which case my firmware is the new kind, or B, try to give me an 80 gig ipod which isn't Rockbox compatible
05:08:56aliaskJdGordon: I'll leave a ping -t running :)
05:09:04JdGordonna
05:09:09AaronI should be able to download old firmware to use that installer to restore my Ipod with old software
05:09:09SoapI don't understand A
05:09:28AaronSince I don't think the Apple store would be thrilled with me if I came in and Rockbox loaded up
05:09:55SoapApple will replace the battery. If it is in Best Buys warranty period they will replace the iPod. (in my experience)
05:10:06AaronI have Best Buy's warranty too
05:10:23Aaronbut it depends if you have a Product Service Plan or Product Replacement Plan, and I'm 99 percent sure Ipods are the Replacement plan
05:10:26Soapyou only have one at any given point in time.
05:10:47AaronI don't think Bestbuy has 60 gig Ipods laying around anymore, but i could be wrong
05:10:51Soapplug it into itunes and restore that way.
05:11:06AaronItunes will update it to the newest firmware though when I restore it
05:11:16AaronAren't there issues with the newest firmware and gettin Rockbox on?
05:11:27SoapIf a 5th gen 60 gig has a dead battery already, I would suspect defective battery, and I would want to get it taken care of ASAP.
05:11:46Soapthere are no issues with apple firmware outside the 80 GB, and that will eventually get solved.
05:12:45 Quit JdGordon ("Konversation terminated!")
05:14:58AaronSo you don't think theres any chance this has somethign to do with my bootloader or software? Did you read my theory about Rockbox possibly underestimating my battery life? How does my Ipod have the energy to tell me its shutting down when everyone elses just dies?
05:15:47AaronI'm going to restore and update to 1.2.1 and see what the battery is like using Apple firmware
05:17:11SoapI firmly believe you have a flaky battery.
05:17:49AaronAnd you think Best Buy will just give me a new Ipod to walk out with that day for my batter issue?
05:17:58Soapbut, yes, until you test with Apple firmware we know nothing and assume much.
05:18:14SoapAaron: you don't have a BB AND an Apple warranty.
05:18:22SoapThe BB one kicks in after the Apple one expires.
05:19:05AaronAlright. And at the Apple store do you think they'll replace the battery while I wait or give me a new Ipod?
05:19:34SoapI don't know - I'm assuming the third option - they will replace the battery and you'll get it later.
05:20:06SoapBut from what I've heard they won't hand you a new player because of battery issues, they'll replace the battery.
05:20:36SoapBut that might depend on how much leg you flash to the clerk.
05:20:56AaronWell they gave me a new one when my Ipod dock connector was being sketchy and very selectively outputting left and right audio
05:21:16Soapyea, that's a hardware issue, not a drop-in battery issue.
05:22:00AaronBut theoretically that could have opened it up, or sent it in and put in a new female dock port
05:22:42AaronThree years ago the plastic casing over my 3g ipod lcd got corroded from this cleaner I used. I took the Ipod, put it in three plastic ziplocks, froze it for four hours
05:22:43Soapand they do - and sell them as refurbushed. The battery replacement is an order of magnitude simpler fix than any board replacement.
05:22:54AaronI then sent it into Apple and they sent me a brand new one three days later
05:23:06Soapwhy did you freeze it?
05:23:13 Quit atsea-145193 (Excess Flood)
05:23:22AaronSince I couldn't see what was going on with the screen
05:23:30AaronUnless the backlight was on
05:23:51AaronIt was all totally my fault and it was unethical of me
05:23:53Soapand the point of the freezer in this (way off topic to Rockbox) story??
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05:24:22AaronThis was just a story related to Apple and there Ipod repair program
05:24:29AaronWhich is also totally off Rockbox I guess
05:25:02AaronOkay the Ipod is restored. I guess I'll throw an album on there and put it on repeat
05:25:37Soapdid you use the wiki instructions IpodInstallationBeta to install the bootloader before?
05:25:48Soap(or the manual)?
05:25:59AaronThe IpodInstallationBeta
05:26:04AaronI used that to Update it thought
05:26:10AaronTo the bootloader with the black background
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05:26:19Soapand you couldn't dual boot?
05:26:22AaronBefore that the Apple OS worked, I had the blue bootloader
05:26:47AaronI can't say for sure if the problems started happening after I updated the bootloader
05:27:14AaronBut it seems like it
05:27:39AaronWhenever I charge my Ipod for a long time it almost always reports 83 percent battery life when its unplugged
05:27:59AaronI am in the Apple OS software and it says Charged right now
05:27:59Soapyep - your battery is shot.
05:28:14AaronWhile I was still running Rockbox the battery life was in the 70's
05:28:14SoapI'm willing to bet some cash.
05:29:11AaronLet me put an album on. If it lasts many hours then something was going on with Rockbox
05:30:44Soaplarger than 64MB album.
05:31:06AaronOkay
05:31:44AaronI'm going to have it put a 115 meg album on repeat
05:36:24AaronIts outputting sound through my headphone port but not through my dock
05:37:39AaronI don't see anything in the Apple OS settings to enable the line out
05:37:56Soapit is always on.
05:38:29AaronI use this Ipod dock all the time and when I plug my mini jack from the stereo the the headphone port it works but not from the Line Out on the dock
05:38:45AaronI never had single problem using it with Rockbox. The connection appears to be perfectly fine
05:42:15AaronI've tried jiggling it a lot and still not a single peep of sound of the dock
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05:42:51AaronHowever its been on for 10 minutes and it still shows perfect battery life. In rockbox I wouldn't have ever showed being full and it would have dropped 10 percent by now
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05:43:14Soapthat means nothing.
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05:43:36SoapNeither you nor I know the discharge curve Apple uses to calculate their analog battery meter.
05:43:47AaronThats true
05:44:07AaronWe'll see. I want to know why my freaking dock isn't outputting sound right now
05:44:47Soapone issue at a time.
05:45:07AaronWhy would it work normally with Rockbox but not Apple OS
05:45:22SoapThat's a question for Apple.
05:47:06AaronWell I've had it playing since 10:30 so its 15 minutes and counting
06:00
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06:03:02JdGordonyay i got wireless :) now you all have to entertain me during this 2 hour lecture :p
06:03:35*aliask dances
06:04:00JdGordondamn desk isnt big enough for the laptop and notes :p
06:05:56aliaskWell, it's barbeque oclock. Have fun at uni jd.
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06:07:17AaronDoes the Ipod installation beta provide the best instructions for installing Rockbox?
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06:15:57EztliMy iPod is missing the rockbox.ipod file, and so it can't boot. How do I get it into disk mode?
06:16:33EztliiPod 3G.
06:23:33AaronHold on a second
06:23:50Aaronhttp://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=8205.0
06:24:00AaronIt says how to reset your Ipod and get into Disk mode
06:25:41EztliAnd nevermind. Buttons started responding again.
06:25:55Eztliwtf lag
06:26:04Eztliunless you typed that all at the same time
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06:32:21EztliDoes anyone know how to eject any iPod when it is in use?
06:32:36EztliKaspersky decided to scan it, and froze, and I can't stop it, no matter what I try.
06:35:30Shaidscan another drive
06:35:37Shaidshould release the file handler on it
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07:05:16***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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07:23:36pearldiveris there a way to create a one click "safety remove hardware" shortcut for a particular device?
07:31:27amiconnI don't thinks so...
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07:46:18Shaidtwo clicks is too many?
07:48:52*amiconn doesn't 'safely remove'
07:49:24amiconnIf caching is disabled (which it is by default for usb mass storage device), just pulling the plug works fine
07:49:39amiconnOne big advantage over linux...
07:50:34amiconn*write caching
07:51:11joshua_amiconn, that's fine on FAT32 devices, but on NTFS or ext devices you wouldn't want to do that, because that would not mark the "clean unmount" bit
07:51:15Slasherithat isn't "advantage" at all. Of course you can disable caching with linux too
07:51:31amiconnPer device?
07:51:38Slasherisure, just edit the fstab
07:51:48amiconnjoshua_: True, but then I don't use external ntfs drives
07:51:49Slasheriand use sync option or something like that
07:52:20amiconnFor some reason linux (or maybe just nautilus in this case) doesn't like surprise removal
07:52:47joshua_recent kernels have gotten better at dealing with USB devices going away
07:52:52pearldiverShaid it never works on 2nd click for me somehow
07:53:01amiconnIf I just pull one of my targets from linux (knowing nothing was written to the disk), the icon doesn't disappear, and further hot-plugs don't work
07:53:02pearldiveri have to do it all over again all the time
07:53:15joshua_in the past, that used to be a huge issue with usb serial; a serial drvice that was open would hang the system if removed (!)
07:53:24Slasheribut disabling caching also greatly slows down transfer speeds. just type umount /something and wait until writing finishes
07:54:10amiconnusb support in linux seems to be shaky in general.
07:54:40Slasheriamiconn: probably the system is not configured for hot plugging/umounting by default. I have seen that is possible but never tried to do that myself
07:54:41amiconnI got data errors in copied files; never happened on other os'es
07:55:17Slasheriwith fat32 and cleanly unmounted drive?
07:55:23amiconnyes
07:55:33Slasherinever happened to me..
07:56:00amiconnThe fat structure was intact, but I was wondering why track changes between flac files causing clicks
07:56:22amiconnTurned out that rockbox skipped prematurely due to data errors
07:56:37amiconnRe-copied the files via windows, and all was fine
07:57:27amiconnThat was in several files all copied in one go. Not reallyimproving my trust in linux' usb abilities :/
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08:21:34Kasperlepreglow: i used my ipod with rockbox in addition to my alarm clock this morning :D
08:22:05pondlifeTomorrow, it's only Rockbox :)
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08:23:13Kasperleheh. i'm all for redundancy. esp. because i might forget to not put the ipod on hold, which would make it fail ;)
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08:46:52AaronHey
08:47:17AaronDoes anyone know why the line out on my 5g ipod works through Rockbox but not the Apple OS?
08:49:08markunamiconn: yes, I've see a few people here having the same problem
08:50:05KasperleAaron: maybe the apple OS has different volume settings?
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08:50:35AaronI looked through all the menu settings for an enable or disable and found nothing. Soap said thats its on all the time which I'm sure is true
08:51:25Kasperleoh. line out. that's different from the headphone jack?
08:51:43AaronYeah, using the Ipod Dock
08:51:47Kasperleah
08:51:49Kasperle:/
08:51:58AaronI should have clarified
08:52:07fejfightercoz rockbox is awsome :P
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08:59:34amiconnAaron: It works in rockbox but not in apple? That's the opposite of what I'd expect in case it doesn't work in both anyway....
09:00
09:00:57AaronYea. I just restored my Ipod and it didn't work even prior to putting Rockbox back on
09:05:18***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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09:23:08GodEatermarkun: heh - looks like we both answered that guy at once. He definitely seems to be technically challenged.
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09:26:44markunGodEater: yes, he's an idiot :)
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09:27:06decayedcell_linuxstb here?
09:28:38decayedcell_running ipodpatcher on a 4G with linux installed by iPL Installer gives [ERR] Unknown image type xnil
09:28:46markunGodEater: I really hope he'll like rockbox when he gets there in the end :)
09:29:20GodEaterI think the file browser interface may end up confusing him
09:29:32GodEatersince he doesn't even seem to understand the metaphor on his PC
09:29:37GodEaterlet alone a DAP
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09:29:57markunamiconn: people keep asking about the batter mAh setting. Can't we just remove that together with runtime estimation os SWCODEC targets (unless you have a good idea on how to fix it)
09:30:21markuns/batter/batttery/ s/os/on/
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09:30:47DataGhostis that the setting described as 'use 500mAh for charging' or something like that?
09:30:56markunno
09:30:58DataGhostoh
09:31:08DataGhosthm, too bad then
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09:31:29DataGhost(I still can't run rockbox on my 5.5G so if it applies to iPods at all, I still never saw it)
09:31:47GodEaterit applies to all SWCODEC targets
09:31:56markunDataGhost: yes, also applies to the ipods
09:31:59GodEaterwell - ALL rockbox targets in fact
09:32:06markunin fact to everything which is not an archos
09:32:07GodEaterit just doesn't MEAN much on most of them :)
09:32:08KasperleDataGhost: why can't you?
09:32:08DataGhostah :)
09:32:16DataGhostKasperle because I have a 80GB iPod?
09:32:20Kasperleah
09:32:28markunGodEater: eh yes, you are right of course :)
09:32:32DataGhostI can see the splashscreen but that really isn't a reason to use it
09:32:36KasperleCpt. Obvious! :D
09:32:39GodEaterwe're still waiting on the shout of "Eureka" from LinusN
09:33:02DataGhostI've shouted that a couple of times already but rockbox is completely different from iPL :P
09:33:09GodEatermostly the shouting has just been profanity though
09:33:33GodEaterheh
09:33:37DataGhostby the way, I devised a way to use iPL a little bit like rockbox... with the necessary files on FAT32 so no partitioning is needed :)
09:33:45*GodEater wonders if there'll be a "Gentlemen, we have disk access" email from LinusN
09:33:48DataGhosthehe
09:34:05GodEaternice going
09:34:14Kasperlewhatever happened to linux on UMSDOS partitions :D
09:34:25DataGhostI don't know
09:34:28GodEateryou can still use it
09:34:35DataGhostit just annoyed me yesterday night, when trying to get this to work
09:34:37GodEateryou'd just have to been insane to want to
09:34:48linuxstbdecayedcell_: Sounds like the IPL installer is doing something odd to your firmware partition... Just restore a clean one.
09:34:51DataGhostipod_c~1 isn't really useful when the userland searches for iPod_Control
09:35:12Kasperleheh
09:35:42Kasperlei need to sort ipl out. i crashed mpd −−update when i added 15gb of music all at once
09:35:46DataGhosthttp://de.dataghost.com/ipl/IMG_7858b.JPG http://de.dataghost.com/ipl/IMG_7859b.JPG
09:35:49Kasperlenow mpd won't start anymore
09:35:53DataGhoststrange
09:35:55DataGhostin podzilla2?
09:36:11Kasperlewell, i added mpd −−update and mpd to /etc/rc
09:36:17DataGhostbecause I had it crashed a couple of times too... when I decided that the installation instructions (unpack and start) weren't sufficient
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09:36:21DataGhostand I added mpd to rc
09:36:29DataGhostso mpd was started and then it was started again from podzilla :)
09:36:36DataGhostso it ran out of memory
09:36:44DataGhostpodzilla already starts mpd and it'll update and everything
09:36:50*LinusN wonders if there'll be a "Gentlemen, LinusN will be paid to work full time on Rockbox" email from someone :-)
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09:36:56DataGhosthehe
09:36:57Kasperleyeh, with mpd running, podzilla complained about there not being enough memory for libstdcxx
09:37:01linuxstbDataGhost: What was your approach to IPL-on-FAT32?
09:37:18Kasperleand now podzilla just says it can't contact mpd, so i guess it's not starting
09:37:19DataGhostoh and you can delete libstdcxx unless you actually have a use for it. it's huge and doens't do anything for most people
09:37:29Kasperleoh. i see
09:37:36DataGhostmpd probably can't start because the modules are taking too much memory
09:37:39Kasperlethought it was loaded as a dependency for smth
09:37:55DataGhostlinuxstb a few binaries, only the very basic folders and a file, containing ext3
09:38:15Kasperleoverall i wonder whether i have much use for ipl. rockbox cares to all my needs right now
09:38:23GodEaterLinusN: I'll pay you to work fulltime on RockBox - just don't expect the world's largest salary ;)
09:38:29LinusNlol
09:38:31Kasperleand ipl documentation seems flaky at best
09:38:40Kasperleall i see is a bunch of howtos
09:40:08DataGhostand in a few days there will be another one with the no-partitioning installation method :P
09:40:23DataGhostbut I have to wait for my kernel patch to be merged into cvs
09:40:36DataGhostbecause the thing I constructed cntains that patch in the kernel
09:40:38KasperleDataGhost: thanks for your work on 5.5g support though :)
09:40:42linuxstbDataGhost: Why not use a tiny ramfs for the /dev folder, and everything else on fat32?
09:41:09DataGhostlinuxstb I think that can be done as well, but I think symlinks were the main problem
09:41:25linuxstbAh yes, busybox...
09:41:29DataGhost:)
09:42:42DataGhostthe reason why iPL is installed the way it is on winpods (with a separate ext3 partition) is because (quote) "FAT32 is not suitable for iPL"
09:42:43linuxstbSo you'll need a /bin in the ramfs as well...
09:42:58DataGhoston HFS+ iPods the files are just extracted to the HFS+ partition
09:43:11DataGhostI don't need ramfs?
09:43:22DataGhostand that's probably not wanted since the kernel can't free memory, afaik :)
09:43:35Kasperlei think a file-backed fs is just fine
09:43:35DataGhostI just need /dev /etc /proc and /sbin on FAT32, that's it
09:43:46DataGhostno need for /bin :)
09:44:11linuxstb /dev on FAT32?
09:44:16Kasperlewhy do you need those folders on FAT32?
09:44:20DataGhostwell, it still wants to mount /dev
09:44:36DataGhostKasperle because it needs to boot off fat32, there is no other partition on winpods
09:44:47DataGhostand the file is on fat32 (in etc)
09:45:09linuxstbBut I didn't think you could have device nodes on fat32?
09:45:25DataGhostno but devfs is a separate filesystem which is just mounted in that folder
09:45:42DataGhostoh and yes some device nodes are made, but that happens in /etc/rc (on the ext3 thing)
09:45:47DataGhostit's not needed :)
09:45:50Kasperlehmmm
09:45:54DataGhostfor starting iPL in that way*
09:46:34DataGhostanyway, after it's booted it looks just like a normal iPL installation, so that's very compatible :)
09:46:37Kasperleheh. booting linux off a loop-device is a bit of a chicken and egg problem ;)
09:46:47DataGhostyeah but luckily there are tools for that :)
09:46:53linuxstbBut anyway, I think it's a good thing to be doing - it's long overdue.
09:47:05Kasperleunless you could create some initrd foo that can create the device from a file on FAT32
09:47:15DataGhostyeah linuxstb it's mainly needed for the new iPods anyway
09:47:16Kasperlebut i've not used linux in ages
09:47:17GodEaterDataGhost: is anybody besides you still *doing* any development work on iPL ?
09:47:30DataGhostas you said a few minutes ago, older iPods have iPL installed in the firmware partition
09:47:30*Kasperle is more of a bsd person
09:47:43DataGhostnewer iPods hibernate right over the iPL install when it's in firmware:(
09:47:57DataGhostGodEater I don't know.. probably they are
09:48:15GodEaterif they are - they're very quiet about it
09:48:24DataGhostheh
09:48:29GodEaterI do mean the kernel stuff too - not apps on iPL
09:48:32DataGhostwell actually
09:48:51DataGhostyes the kernel.. it works on every iPod now, so there's no real push to release a new one
09:49:06DataGhostthey are working on an experimental kernel but I don't know how active that is
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09:49:56DataGhostI do know that some people are looking into some issues
09:50:02DataGhostbut that's all I know
09:50:40DataGhostafter I'm done with this, the tasks I know about are freeing memory and getting 64MB memory on iPods that support it
09:50:49DataGhostthe rockbox patch for 64MB ram doesn't work with iPL
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09:51:52DataGhostit does do something, though
09:52:23DataGhostI couldn't see any difference so I changed the value to something random in the asm code
09:52:38DataGhostit took me some time to figure out that it caused memory corruption :P
09:52:47DataGhostI thought I trashed my filesystem once again
09:53:00DataGhostturned out to be the kernel and the modification I totally forgot about
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09:59:30pondlifeLinusN: I'll put 5 Euros a year towards your salary
10:00
10:00:02LinusNpondlife: how generous :-P
10:00:05pondlifelol
10:00:18pondlifeNow you need another 20000 people like me
10:00:30pondlifeurgh
10:01:20pondlifeAnyway back on topic - why does left-exit from a numeric/range setting display Cancelled, whereas doing the same on an option setting does not?
10:01:30pondlifeOne for Jdgordon I suppose
10:02:38pondlife(I mean if the setting isn't changed, for the record.)
10:03:00LinusNi think it should never cancel
10:03:18LinusNbut that's me
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10:12:26JdGordonwell i still cant bloody connect to svn.rockbox :'( has anyone got an ssh server they dont mind me using? Or someone want to commit root menu for me?
10:12:51GodEaterTORa TORa TORa
10:13:22JdGordoni tried it..
10:13:29JdGordonhow do you get svn to go over it?
10:13:51GodEaterno clue - never used it =/
10:14:01GodEateras I understood it, anything should work over it
10:14:41GodEaterJdGordon: PM
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10:23:03DataGhostwow.
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10:23:07DataGhostmicrosoft really did it
10:23:14DataGhostI just got another one of those technet newsletters
10:23:20JdGordondid what?
10:23:23DataGhostthis time I actually took the time to quickly skim through it
10:23:29DataGhostthere's a comic in there... but it's not funny
10:23:33DataGhost:')
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10:31:27bluebrotherJdGordon: I guess you'll need to configure svn to use your localhost proxy in .subversion/servers
10:32:02JdGordonits all good now
10:32:10bluebrothereven better :)
10:32:30JdGordonsvn. is still unreachable.. but im going through a ssh server so i can at least commit
10:34:41amiconnmarkun: The mAh setting is actually useful, so why should we remove it?
10:34:55amiconnAnd btw, the setting exists on all rockbox targets
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10:40:03GodEateramiconn: who is it useful to ?
10:41:29amiconnWell, it's used for battery runtime estimation and charging time estimation
10:42:01amiconn...and since you can have different batteries installed, the setting isn't constant
10:46:35GodEateryes but I can't remember the last time someone who asked about it on the forums was answered with anything other than "it hasn't been calibrated for your target, so it's pointless"
10:47:10GodEaterso what I'm asking is - which targets does it work properly on, and which ones doesn't it ?
10:48:54amiconnThere is no much point in calibrating for ipods until the runtime issues get sorted
10:49:00JdGordonpatch is fucked on this server :'(
10:49:20amiconnFor some others it's just not done yet
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10:52:26GodEateris there a list of targets it HAS been calibrated for ?
10:52:40pondlifeJdGordon: Quick settings question?
10:52:52GodEaterand I think there's EVERY point calibrating it for iPods since we have not even a vague clue of when the runtime issues are likely to get sorted
10:53:36pondlifeIt still needs recalibrating for H300, doesn't it?
10:53:51n1spondlife: sure does
10:53:56pondlifeI can do that if there's a procedure...
10:54:16pondlifei.e. standard file type/bitrate?
10:54:23DataGhostlet's hope this isn't any ordinary infinite loop and that access is actually performing something that'll end with a usable result
10:54:28JdGordonpondlife: only if your very quick.. or can wait an hour?
10:54:28DataGhostand let's hope it's done after my shower :P
10:54:35pondlifeVery quick
10:54:39amiconnpondlife: Just run a battery benchmark, preferably with our kinda-standard 192kbps mp3
10:55:02amiconnIdeally we'd need such benchmarks from more than one unit of a type
10:55:08pondlifeJdGordon: When I go into a numeric setting and exit without changing, it displays cancelled. Is this a bug?
10:55:38pondlifeIt doesn't do that for option settings unless the selection changed.
10:55:46amiconnThere are a couple of currents to calibrate, one of which is the backlight current
10:56:02amiconnNot sure about what brightness we should measure at
10:56:04JdGordonpondlife: you sure? I thought it did that for everything...
10:56:14JdGordonwe decided left will accept so that will be fixed
10:56:19pondlifeNo!!
10:56:19JdGordonbut I have to run off now
10:56:24pondlifeLeft cannot accept
10:56:25JdGordonhehe
10:56:38JdGordonback in an hour or so
10:56:44*pondlife trusts you are joking, good luck in all you do!
10:57:35BigBambiI find the battery setting useful in my H140 - I have a 2200 mAh battery installed, and changing the setting in rockbox gives a much better estimation of runtime
10:58:18pondlifeamiconn: OK, so just run battery_bench from full to death with a set of 192kbps mp3s? Backlight won't be involved in that much, so I assume you'd measure that seperately somehow?
10:58:46pondlifeThis is with a standard battery, about 9 months old but seems to be holding up ok
10:59:12amiconnIf we can't measure that separately, we'd need two runs, one without backlight active during playback, and one with backlight on all the time
10:59:20pondlifeOK
10:59:29GodEaterBigBambi: that would imply then that it's been cailbrated for the H1x0
10:59:34*amiconn thinks he already did such benchmarks a while back
10:59:41amiconnHave to dig up the files...
10:59:43BigBambiYes, afaik
11:00
11:00:15pondlifeamiconn: OK, I'll do a run anyway, the more the merrier.
11:00:27pondlife(2 runs - backlight on/off)
11:00:57*amiconn thinks we should probably take backlight brightness into account on H300 and X5
11:01:28amiconnLinusN: Do you have some wires attached to a H300 so you can measure current consumption?
11:02:04LinusNyes i have, at home
11:02:43amiconnCould you measure current consumption of the backlight versus brightness setting?
11:03:06LinusNsure, remind me when i get home :-)
11:04:20amiconnAnd could you also do the same for X5?
11:05:20***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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11:09:57LinusNhmmm, maybe
11:10:26BigBambiEveryone wish me luck - I have to use the OF :( Some muppet has given me some reports in WMA I have to listen to
11:10:37LinusNenjoy :-)
11:10:45BigBambiI certainly won't
11:11:02BigBambiThe interminable wait to start up is the current problem, but there will be more
11:11:26fejfighteri used the h300 of for a little today... and thanked the guys and girls here for their hard work...
11:13:48XavierGrpondlife of course left will be accept, it always have been that way, someone changed it to cancel and it plain, annoying confusing and unintuitive
11:14:00XavierGr+is
11:14:06BigBambiI agree
11:14:44XavierGrback = not cancel
11:14:51XavierGrback = I want to go in the previous menu
11:14:55*n1s doesn't see it as 'accept' but more as 'leave setting without cancelling' but yeah
11:14:55XavierGrSTOP = cancel
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11:15:17XavierGrn1s that too
11:16:45preglowKasperle: so did i, heh
11:19:43pondlifeXavierGr: Left = go back without changing setting
11:20:00pondlifeSTOP is awkward to use
11:20:09pondlifeBetter to stick to just the arrows if possibl
11:20:10pondlifee
11:20:26pondlifeWhat device do you use?
11:20:29n1spondlife: how often do you cancel a setting change?
11:20:32XavierGrH100/H300
11:20:38XavierGrcancle is very rare to use
11:20:49pondlifeI don't think if it as cancel.
11:20:54XavierGrthough left = go back with the setting value you left
11:21:02XavierGrthat was like that all the time
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11:21:05pondlifeBut I do often want to look at settings without changing them
11:21:07XavierGrI still don't get it why it was changed
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11:21:23pondlifeI didn't know it had been changed, it always seemed intuitive to me
11:21:24XavierGrlet me tell you another example
11:21:30XavierGryou just want to look at the value
11:21:41XavierGrright now you will have to press right to see the value then right to exit again
11:21:48XavierGrthen left to go to the previous menu
11:21:50pondlifeNo
11:21:52XavierGrthat is just horrible
11:21:59pondlifeJust press RIGHT or SELECT once
11:22:17pondlifeI'm running with the root_menu patch, maybe it's changed?
11:22:19XavierGryeah but then if you want to go further back you will have to press left
11:22:36pondlife?
11:22:48pondlifeSorry, I don't understand
11:22:50XavierGrprevious the option menu that you are in I mean
11:23:15XavierGrnavigation should stick to left/right without having to wait for spash screens etc
11:23:20pondlifeOK, I go into an option menu and want to change an option, so I select the new option and press RIGHT
11:23:28pondlifeIt goes back out immediately, without a splash
11:23:29XavierGryes
11:23:37XavierGrbut if you push left
11:23:50XavierGrit cancels you get the spash
11:24:07XavierGrand then exits the option
11:24:09pondlifeIf I push left it should not change the option.
11:24:33pondlifeThe splash should only be displayed if I had selected another option, but there is a bug where it displays too often
11:24:48XavierGrif you changed an option and don't want to change it then that's what stop is for
11:24:53pondlifeYou already have both RIGHT and SELECT/NAVI to change
11:24:53XavierGrbecause that is rare
11:24:57pondlifeNo STOP is to stop playback
11:25:19pondlifeSTOP and PLAY are not involved in the menus
11:25:20XavierGrwell I don't agree with that at all
11:25:31XavierGrcanceling an option is just so rare
11:25:39pondlifeIt's not Cancelling
11:25:42pondlifeIt's leaving
11:25:45XavierGrbut navigating fast is very common
11:26:07pondlifeJust press RIGHT or SELECT , it works very fast
11:26:10*linuxstb finds left-to-cancel 100% intuitive
11:26:30*n1s finds it 100% stupis :-P
11:26:32XavierGr:D
11:26:37n1ss/d/
11:26:48*linuxstb also knows his brain is wired differently to everyone else when it comes to the Rockbox UI so has given up
11:26:52XavierGrback != cancel
11:26:59*pondlife is the same as linuxstb then
11:27:09pondlifeIT'S NOT CANCEL!!
11:27:13pondlifeSorry to shout
11:27:25XavierGrbut right now it is
11:27:27pondlifeThe splash is annoying
11:27:33pondlifeThat is a bug though
11:27:37pondlifeI will fix it
11:27:42fejfighterfor me its oops wrong setting i want to go back ie left
11:27:50n1sheh, I try to stay out of as many UI discussions as I can because they always turn into an agument about opinnions....
11:28:01pondlifeFor me it's I want to leave without risking an accidental change
11:28:07linuxstbThe splash is good, because cancel is a rare action, and it's good to get confirmation that your change hasn't happened.
11:28:21pondlifeYes, but it shouldn't display if you didn't change
11:28:22XavierGrfor me it is I want to get back whatever the option is now
11:28:26pondlifeThat's the bug
11:29:03n1sfor me it's like change setting, press left "cancelled" darn, go back change again press select, I will *never* use right to go back *never*!!111 :-P
11:29:17XavierGrexactly
11:29:21XavierGrI get this all the time
11:29:33XavierGrI want to change a setting and I always get the splash screen
11:29:51linuxstbThen the splash screen is doing its job...
11:30:11XavierGryeah that's why my preference is STOP = cancle
11:30:15XavierGrcancel too
11:30:22linuxstbNot all targets have a STOP button though.
11:30:25pondlifeSo how do I stop playback?
11:30:37XavierGrin the menu?
11:30:48n1swe can use rec to cancel if we don't want to use stop tho
11:30:55pondlifeUrgh
11:30:57XavierGrthat couldnt be done in the old days and right now too (I think)
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11:31:00linuxstbNot all targets have REC...
11:31:18pondlifeThink of the visually impaired too.
11:31:40n1slinuxstb: we could use right :-)
11:31:46XavierGrthe confusing part is that I have to press Right to go back in the menu
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11:31:57linuxstbnls: Which makes no sense at all....
11:31:57XavierGr(and apply my change)
11:32:04pondlifeRight/Select are both SELECT
11:32:24pondlifei.e. they perform a sensible action on the highlighted option.
11:32:41pondlifeIn this case, it's most sensible to take that setting on.
11:33:11amiconnlinuxstb: Before button actions, Left and Right worked the same in settings (as well as play/select on targets where that exists as a center button)
11:33:12BigBambiI dislike left to cancel mainly because it was for ages left to accept, and I got used to it
11:33:25XavierGrthat too
11:33:30amiconn...and Stop/Off was cancel, as cancelling a setting is a rare operation
11:33:31pondlifeI used to prefer that too, but am now used to the new way
11:33:35BigBambiI could learn this I suppose, but as has been said, the most annoying thing is the bloody splash
11:33:46XavierGrI fully agree with amiconn on that
11:33:52XavierGrcancel needs a special button
11:34:04XavierGrin all GUIs back is not changing the options you changed
11:34:15XavierGrin most rather
11:34:18BigBambiI would vote for the original left and right both accept, but I don't really care ;)
11:34:19linuxstbWhat about targets without a dedicated STOP/OFF button? For example, on ipods a long-press on PLAY/PAUSE isn't an intuitive way to cancel a setting.
11:34:25amiconnCancel should be stop or off depending on target, and probably rec on X5
11:34:34pondlifeI like left on H300 though
11:34:38pondlife;)
11:35:10pondlifeIt's like the file browser. I decided not to play that track..
11:35:35pondlifeAnyway, in other key map news... does anyone know the key combo to display the pitch screen on H300 WPS?
11:35:40BigBambipondlife: just kill the splash and I'll change my position and agree with you!
11:35:49pondlifeOnly the unneeded splash
11:35:52BigBambiyeah
11:35:55pondlifeYep
11:35:57linuxstbI just think we have the three most consistently available buttons (left/right/select) doing the same thing is a waste...
11:36:15linuxstbs/we have/having/
11:36:19amiconnThe splash isn't unneeded, *especially* when cancel stays on that unintuitive 'Left' button
11:36:35pondlifeNo, it is unneeded if you didn't change anything
11:36:40pondlifeThat's when it's annoying
11:36:54pondlifeCompare a numeric setting to an option..
11:36:57BigBambiIt really slows down navigation (when not changing anything)
11:36:57linuxstbpondlife: Only if you _know_ you didn't change anything.
11:37:10linuxstbAnd how does Rockbox know what you know?
11:37:19markunamiconn: useful for what?
11:37:38BigBambilinuxstb: because you didn't go up or down the list?
11:37:38JdGordonlinuxstb: we can easily remeber the value it started in
11:37:51pondlifeWe already do, it just doesn't quite work properly
11:38:08*JdGordon gone again
11:38:18linuxstbBigBambi: So if you move down, and then back to the old option, the splash should appear?
11:38:19preglowso, how fares root menu commital?
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11:38:41*pondlife gone too
11:38:46BigBambilinuxstb: ideally no, but I don't know how hard it is to code
11:38:54markunamiconn: if it is we shouldn't remove it of course, but I thought it was only used in runtime calculation, which I think is not working very well on SWCODEC targets
11:39:06BigBambiIf you haven't changed anything, you haven't really cancelled and don't need to be told
11:39:21BigBambiIs it possible to remember the setting on entering the screen and compare it?
11:39:41amiconnmarkun: It is working if it's calibrated
11:39:44XavierGrmarkun: what's wrong with runtime calculation?
11:39:52preglowamiconn: depends on your habits
11:39:55XavierGrit is working perfectly for H100/H300 at least
11:40:05 Part norbusan
11:40:10preglowif you're like me switching wildly between ogg, flac and mp3, you won't get very good readings
11:40:11amiconnpreglow: Sure does, it's an estimation not a prediction
11:40:38XavierGreven if it is a wrong estimation I still think it is good that exists
11:40:46markunI don't see how it is better indication of the runtime than just looking at the battery percentage..
11:40:48preglowi'd just as soon remove the entire feature
11:40:56preglowthe battery reading is pretty much all i need
11:41:10XavierGrwell some people like other things :P
11:41:12preglowmarkun: agreed...
11:41:33XavierGrI always use it to see something more than the battery meter
11:41:35amiconnRuntime estimation does *not* only take the percentage into account
11:41:37markunalso depends on the age of the battery
11:41:54markunand if you have dircache on or not and how much you browse
11:42:21XavierGrI still think it is a nice feature to have
11:42:33XavierGrnot only that but it can always be extened to be more accurate
11:42:37markunamiconn: ok, I'll take a look at the code then before I say anything stupid :)
11:42:49preglowi still only just look at the battery level
11:43:20XavierGrpreglow that sounded more like amiconn :P
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11:44:09preglowhaha
11:44:19preglowfor me the runtime estimation is just not any good
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12:00
12:03:07markunamiconn: wouldn't it make more sense to look only at the average time it takes for the battery percentages to drop and discard the mAh value?
12:10:39JdGordonok. here we go!
12:10:45*linuxstb spots a cheeky commit from pondlife...
12:11:10markunpreglow: octave is pretty nice!
12:11:13markunthanks
12:14:11 Quit inversions (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
12:14:20amiconnmarkun: Auto-calibrating runtime estimation would be nice, but no one got around coding that yet
12:14:29amiconnAnd the powermgmt code is a mess...
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12:15:02markunamiconn: I'll put it on my todo list, maybe when I have some time
12:17:41pondlifeLooks like the root menu is in SVN...
12:18:00hcsooh
12:18:08hcsgotta check that out
12:18:16 Quit fejfighter ()
12:18:30decayedcellhmm recent SVN activity not up yet
12:18:54pondlifeI just happened to be doing an SVN up
12:18:56decayedcellbut a bunch of new files are up :D
12:19:18pondlifeJdGordon: Congratulations are in order!
12:19:19decayedcellyeah R 12528
12:19:29decayedcellwebsite is only at 12527
12:19:33*decayedcell starts compiling
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12:20:02JdGordon_thanks :)
12:20:23JdGordon_i just hope the table stays green... commiting was a bit annoying
12:20:30pondlifeHope my settings.c commit didn't interfere with it
12:20:36JdGordon_nope :)
12:20:40JdGordon_well it didnt complain
12:21:15pondlifeBuild server seems to be sleepy
12:21:21decayedcellwebsite is updated
12:21:23*JdGordon_ was about to ask
12:21:25 Quit perplexity (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
12:21:31preglowmarkun: i agree
12:21:50pondlifeI wouldn't want to be /dev/null ;p
12:22:15decayedcellFm - should the M be capitalised like FM
12:22:38pondlifeNow we just need jhMikeS to commit the new dsp mixer and someone to do metadata on buffer
12:22:40preglowit it still called the root menu in the menu screen?
12:22:49pondlifeAnd then we'll have world peace
12:23:21*pondlife decided he likes "root menu" because it implies a hierarchy...
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12:23:36preglowJdGordon_: you should read the commit logs more thorougly, HAVE_ALARM_MOD is no longer a correct define
12:23:52preglowJdGordon_: you now need to use HAVE_RTC_ALARM
12:23:55JdGordon__that should have conflicted then?
12:24:18preglowwell, unless my global grep has messed me over
12:24:22*preglow checks
12:24:27JdGordon__na, i tinhk it was my fault
12:24:42JdGordon__tree.c didnt patch propelry but my quick skim didnt seee why
12:25:08JdGordon__preglow: which file?
12:25:09preglowyeah, my grep -r finds no HAVE_ALARM_MOD in my tree, at least
12:25:21preglowroot_menu.c ...
12:26:15preglowbtw, did you catch the discussion where we pretty much agreed "root menu" is a bad name?=
12:26:30JdGordon__no I dont think so
12:26:35preglowit implies a hierarchy
12:26:45 Quit JdGordon_ ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
12:26:51*pondlife wants a hierarchy, especially as he can now spell it
12:26:51preglowhello dolly
12:26:54JdGordon__was a better name agreed on?
12:26:59preglowwell
12:27:02pondlifeMain Menu or Rockbox Meenu
12:27:02preglowwe agreed on several names several times :)
12:27:04pondlifeMenu
12:27:07preglow"main manu", "rockbox menu"
12:27:10preglow"main rockbox menu"
12:27:12preglowheh
12:27:16pondlifeRockbox Main Menu
12:27:34JdGordon__root menu works..... when tagcache is renamed in the code ill rename this :p
12:27:42decayedcellwhat about just Rockbox
12:27:59pondlifeGood idea
12:28:04preglowdecayedcell: you can't call something "rockbox" in the manual
12:28:17preglow"You will now be in Rockbox"
12:28:20preglowwell duh :)
12:28:26decayedcelllol damn
12:28:28pondlifeIt would be nice if the root of the file browser (with headings enabled) had "Files" as the heading
12:28:41preglowisn't it obvious you're looking at files? :>
12:28:47pondlifeAlso if Database browser had "Database" rather than "Browse By..."
12:28:50pondlifeConsistency
12:29:03pondlifeCurrently it has no heading in the root, only in subdirs
12:29:22preglowit has a heading in subdirs?
12:29:29pondlifeIf configured, yes
12:29:34preglowohes
12:29:37JdGordon__has the build completed/started yet?
12:29:39pondlifeObviously no headings if not configured
12:29:44preglowghahaaah
12:29:45decayedcellhmm the top is called Rockbox, not Root Menu
12:29:54preglowi think i updated without reverting the patch :///
12:29:58pondlifeNo build
12:30:08preglowdecayedcell: yeah, see
12:30:10JdGordon__should be Rockbox Menu in the actual display
12:30:11preglowso it's irrelevant
12:30:13pondlifeBagder: Kick the build server?
12:30:21preglowmainly a manual issue
12:30:35*pondlife hopes JdGordon updated the manual already
12:30:44JdGordon__hahahaha
12:30:45JdGordon__hahahahahah
12:30:47JdGordon__ha
12:30:49JdGordon__ha!
12:30:51pondlifeho
12:30:59JdGordon__wait wait.. not done....
12:31:02JdGordon__bahahahahhahaha
12:31:09pondlifeYou forgot bwahahaha
12:31:11*JdGordon__ watches too much family guy
12:31:22*pondlife never saw it
12:31:26JdGordon__:O
12:31:42pondlifeDidn't look very good when I caught 4 mins of it once
12:31:46pondlifeSo never bothered again
12:32:03pondlifeHardly seemed up to Futurama standards
12:32:11preglowit's fun, not futurama fun, but fun
12:32:18JdGordon__agreed
12:32:19hcs"I'm not finished holding my sides."
12:32:25preglowupdating the manual after introducing stuff is considered A Good Thing, however
12:32:49*pondlife gets barely enough time to breathe let alone watch TV or read books
12:32:53JdGordon__not with my english ablity
12:32:58preglowhaha
12:33:01preglowpeople can always fix that
12:33:09pondlifespeelcheckers
12:33:12preglowbut no, it's not a requirement
12:33:27JdGordon__speelcheckers? is that making sure the text doesnt drag on and on....
12:33:45pondlifealaram ;)
12:33:58pondlifeSVN needs a speelchecker
12:34:01JdGordon__hehe i suck :D
12:34:14decayedcellshould Now Playing / Resume Playback be hidden if theres nothing playing?
12:34:20JdGordon__no
12:34:22pondlifeNo
12:34:27JdGordon__resume playback is shown in that case
12:34:39pondlifeYou mean if nothing to resume?
12:34:41hcslikin' the menu, it'll take some getting used to but seems quite cool
12:34:42pondlifeMaybe
12:35:01decayedcellso to get back to the root menu I press Menu
12:35:06 Quit JdGordon (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
12:35:08decayedcellmm okay
12:35:21pondlifeHmm, should headings in the file browser have icons displayed when icons are disabled?
12:35:26pondlifeThe other headings don't.
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12:35:39hcsdecayedcell: seems like the "back out of menu" button should return to the root menu, doesn't it?
12:35:55decayedcellhcs hmm yeah it seems logical?
12:36:04pondlifeIt does, doesn't it? Which target?
12:36:08decayedcelliPod
12:36:17decayedcellsay I'm in Database mode, should pressing back go to the root menu
12:36:19hcsgigabeat
12:36:22pondlifeAh. It's LEFT on H300
12:36:25JdGordon__decayedcell: no
12:36:39pondlifeOh, is this commit different to the patch?
12:36:41*bluebrother noticed some evil laughter
12:36:51pondlifeDOH!#
12:36:54JdGordon__that was changed last minute
12:36:57pondlifeI liked left to go back
12:37:00*JdGordon__ too
12:37:23pondlifeBut then, I want a full blown hierarchy and none of the core devs likes that idea.
12:37:43daurnimatorhey JdGordon__
12:37:46JdGordon__hey daurnimator
12:38:13pondlifeSeems inconsistent that other options all go back with a press of left, except Files and Database :(
12:38:28*decayedcell feels the same
12:38:41pondlifeJdGordon__: Put it back, I dare you ;)
12:38:50LinusNpondlife: i agree, they should probably not return with Left then ...
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12:39:33*JdGordon__ truly wants to start strangling ppl in thie room!
12:39:38pondlifeLinusN: Why not go for the hierarchy model? It will improve consistency and we're almost there.
12:39:46*daurnimator runs away from JdGordon__
12:39:47bluebrotherhaven't we agreed that "root menu" is a bad name?
12:40:10JdGordon__its only root menu in the code... and there is does make sense
12:40:17JdGordon__well.. its not a bad name there
12:40:17bluebrotherso why does it appear in that much places ... especially on the front page?
12:40:21bluebrother*sic*
12:40:22safetydanJdGordon__, there be warnings in the h120 build after your commit
12:40:30JdGordon__thanks safetydan
12:40:43LinusNpondlife: i could possibly go with the left-to-root, but the browser will still remember the position
12:40:49JdGordon__is it on build.rockbox yet?
12:41:11safetydanJdGordon__, don't think so. root_menu.c:143 and 144 seem to be an issue
12:41:19hcsLinusN: I'd think left to root only at root of file browser
12:41:27pondlifeLinusN: That would be fine. But I think a bit of thought could resolve this both ways.
12:41:27LinusNof course
12:41:39pondlifeAnd database browser
12:41:48LinusNwe should be consistent in either case
12:41:53*decayedcell boots into windows
12:41:54JdGordon__safetydan: ah, damn.. missing a header?
12:41:56hcsspeaking of which, if we have no database...
12:42:06 Part decayedcell
12:42:07LinusNeither we allow Left-to-main in all cases, or none
12:42:07JdGordon__you still get the option :)
12:42:09hcsif *one* has no database
12:42:18safetydanJdGordon__, no, it's something to do with the RTC define
12:42:21pondlifehcs: I agree with that - if it's not ready, skip the option.
12:42:35 Quit jhMikeS (Nick collision from services.)
12:42:37pondlifeOr make it into Initialise Database
12:42:40JdGordon__safetydan: HAVE_RTC_ALARM? or the old one?
12:42:41 Join jhMikeS [0] (n=jethead7@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS)
12:42:52pondlifeHi jhMikeS
12:42:54safetydanJdGordon__, the define looks okay... but when did h120 get an RTC?
12:43:04JdGordon__yesterday
12:43:05LinusNyesterday
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12:43:05safetydanJdGordon__, root_menu.c:143: warning: implicit declaration of function `rtc_check_alarm_started'
12:43:07safetydanoh
12:43:08pondlifeInteresting stuff in the logs about low latency mixing
12:43:10hcspondlife: true, but I wouldn't want to start such a lengthy process accidentally, root seems like the wrong place
12:43:13JdGordon__yeah, missing a header
12:43:43pondlifejhMikeS: I especially like your idea of 4 channels
12:43:51pondlifeAnd the implicit fades
12:44:02DerPapsti bet someone already complained about it, but it seems that the latest 3 SVN changes haven't been build yet.
12:44:27pondlifeLinusN: Can you kick the build server, or is that Bagder's domain?
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12:44:50safetydanWhile I'm here, anyone know a faster way to check if the first four characters of a string are digits? Apart from isdigit(v[0..3]).
12:44:52JdGordon__anyone know what .h is needed? I still cant svn up :'(
12:45:01safetydanJdGordon__, I can fix it, I think it's just missing rtc.h
12:45:08JdGordon__ok, thanks
12:45:19pondlifeJdGordon__: Still suffering from Singtel?
12:45:23JdGordon__yeah
12:45:28pondlifebummer
12:46:13pondlifeAh, wasn't there a build server failure on the 1st Feb too?
12:46:15JdGordon__I cant understand how they havnt fixed it yet.... surely svn.rb isnt the only server not accessable any more?
12:46:37pondlifelol, maybe it's just the one entry wrong!
12:49:18 Join perplexity [0] (n=joust@83.111.189.19)
12:49:22pondlifeAha - looking at the logs for 1st Feb - "<B4gder> new month today... been a daily reboot I believe".
12:49:23*amiconn still thinks the H1x0 rtc mod should be disabled by default
12:49:43amiconnWhat makes this mod deserve special handling over all others?
12:49:58*JdGordon__ agrees... but doesnt really care :p
12:50:00*safetydan agrees with amiconn
12:50:06pondlifeamiconn: Why do I always seem to agree with you?
12:50:12safetydanHow many people are actually going to mod their H1x0?
12:50:41pondlifeIf it involves taking the case off, not many
12:50:46LinusNsafetydan: i am
12:51:07BigBambiI would if I had a chip
12:51:07pondlifeLinusN: But you're a top-level hax0r
12:51:17 Quit perplexity (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
12:51:22pondlifeI might if I had an H100
12:51:35safetydanLinusN, you're not exactly the typical user :)
12:51:37DerPapstpondfile: the server is rebooting since at least 4 hours :D
12:51:48BigBambiHard to get hold of beasties, those rtc chips
12:52:08 Join perplexity [0] (n=joust@83.111.189.19)
12:52:14pondlifeAha, build is going.. Thanks whoever!
12:52:22 Quit decayedcell ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
12:53:05 Quit miepchen^schlaf (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
12:53:09safetydanhrrm, the changelog for the current build seems a little... off
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12:53:42*JdGordon__ jumps back onto the vpn to view the build page
12:53:51pondlifePoor server is still waking up I suspect
12:53:51LinusNsafetydan: still, 14 people have done it so far
12:54:14 Quit w1ll14m (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
12:54:34LinusNpondlife: yes, the build script had stopped, and i had some trouble starting it again
12:54:35pondlifeI fear to see how red the size table has gone...
12:54:52LinusNand Slasheris server is misbehaving
12:54:52safetydanwell that's my fifteen minutes of rockbox for the week
12:54:54 Quit safetydan ("Ex-Chat")
12:55:16DerPapstheh
12:55:17 Quit perplexity (Success)
12:55:22LinusNamiconn: we could of course add a new h100 build for the RTC
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12:55:33pondlifeLike the 8MB build
12:55:39LinusNyes
12:55:41pondlifeA much better idea
12:55:45*pixelma demands an official build for Ondio with backlight mod then, don't mind that some other's will have unused backlight setting then
12:55:47LinusNwhy is that a much better idea?
12:55:51JdGordonno... no more builds.. its too wide as it is
12:56:06 Join perplexity [0] (n=joust@83.111.189.19)
12:56:06pondlifeBecause it's more consistent, and removes the 6k from the standard build.
12:56:23*JdGordon blames any bin size increase on pondlife's commit :D
12:56:26 Quit anathema (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
12:56:29LinusNpondlife: are you really concerned about those 6k?
12:56:42pondlifeI would be if I had an H1x0
12:56:50pondlifeEvery little helps
12:57:11pixelmaLinusN: I'm more concerned about things like the clock plugin for all
12:57:13JdGordonon the archos yes... not the h100 tho
12:57:18LinusNpondlife: i can remove 6k from the plugin buffer if you are cooncerned about the audio buffer size
12:57:38pondlifeWill that have any side effects on plugins?
12:57:41pondlifeIf no, do it!
12:57:48LinusNpixelma: now that is a valid point
12:58:30LinusNthat settles it, we should really have two builds
12:58:32pixelmaevery H1x0 owner who gets this day's daily will have one
12:59:06JdGordonno... disable it by default...
12:59:17 Quit perplexity (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
12:59:47LinusNJdGordon: ???
12:59:55*pondlife goes out to get JdGordon a wider monitor
13:00
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13:01:07JdGordonpondlife: a 21" laptop would be a bit hard to transport :p
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13:01:59pixelmaJdGordon: it's all about resolution.. ;P
13:02:19JdGordonoh nuts... the player didnt build :'(
13:02:48preglowthe build server looks like it needs a kick in the teeth
13:03:03pondlifeIt already had one
13:03:08pondlifeMaybe it needs dentistry
13:03:17 Quit perplexity (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
13:03:29JdGordonno.. gzipng the source takes a while
13:03:40JdGordonwhich Im assuming happens at the very end
13:04:13 Join perplexity [0] (n=joust@83.111.189.19)
13:04:22preglowmore than just the player, pal
13:04:58 Join inversions [0] (n=none@cpc3-bele3-0-0-cust660.belf.cable.ntl.com)
13:05:14JdGordonand ondio FM is red again :'( but oh well
13:05:21preglowi wonder how many uses the player these days...
13:05:24***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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13:05:48bluebrotheroh, now the ondio also hits space limits?
13:06:06JdGordonit has been ove for a while
13:06:11JdGordonjust not that far over
13:06:14preglowoh, so we've got it back again now
13:06:26bluebrotherah, that issue with it not showing in the build table
13:06:27preglowi take it we can expect no code space savings from root menu? :/
13:06:34bluebrotherdidn't remember that was the ondio
13:06:50preglownow what we need is plugin categories
13:07:05pixelmaroot menu added ~1600 bytes
13:07:11*bluebrother points to his attempt on FS
13:07:17 Quit perplexity (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
13:07:23markunJdGordon: there was some code from the file browser which could be removed, right?
13:07:32pixelmadoh... it's already in the size table
13:07:38bluebrotherjust use submenus and adjust the build script accordingly
13:08:13preglowbluebrother: what's the name?
13:08:18pondlifeJdGordon: Could the debug menu be converted to use the new stuff? Would that save some space?
13:08:37 Join perplexity [0] (n=joust@83.111.189.19)
13:08:54XavierGrthe size table is only red except a tiny green block
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13:09:14pondlifea tiny green block which is not a result of code change
13:09:34JdGordonpondlife: i doubt there would be a saving there
13:09:35 Join Ribs [0] (n=ribs@91.84.8.218)
13:09:47JdGordonim going to convert the actual menu backend to make it more consistant
13:10:06pondlifeJust wondered; it's a long menu
13:10:15pixelmaJdGordon: I'm not sure but I think the "new startfile detected" screen has the shift-to-right issue that the runtime and rockbox info screen had
13:10:46pixelma(since the icons)
13:11:03*XavierGr goes to make a left != cancel patch for his own preference :(
13:11:18 Quit perplexity (Success)
13:11:26pondlifeXavierGr: The splash should be less annoying now - try it?
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13:11:35XavierGryes it will be indeed
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13:11:46XavierGrbut again I can't think I can forget my old habbit so easily
13:11:56pondlifeI did, so it is possible.
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13:12:31bluebrotherpreglow: FS #5464
13:12:42amiconnLinusN: Why an extra build?
13:12:49bluebrothergtg now
13:12:59JdGordongrr.... whats the pointer > int case for the 64bit builds again?
13:13:08amiconnAnd btw, I don't understand why the 8MB build is there; people being able to do the mod should also be able to build on their own
13:13:29JdGordonand it would save a bit of time doing the builds removing it
13:13:34pondlifeIndeed
13:14:02amiconnAnd the rtc mod being enabled for H1x0 has the potential to confuse plain users
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13:14:34amiconn...because it causes rtc-dependent plugins to be included, which however won't work properly without the actual rtc
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13:14:50preglowamiconn: which is why he decided for a separate build in the first place
13:15:08amiconnRight now this applies to 'clock', but it will also apply to 'calendar' when that will be added
13:15:27XavierGrI agree with amiconn about the moded builds
13:15:38XavierGrthere shouldn't be an 8mb build nor an rtc for h100 build
13:15:46amiconnpreglow: You mean like a separate target?
13:15:53JdGordondoes rtc.h need to be #ifdefed for the player?
13:16:19amiconnThe player has no rtc if that's what you're asking
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13:16:32preglowincluding headers you don't need very seldom hurts
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13:17:59JdGordonno, the player fails for some .h's if its not defined instead of doing nothing like it should
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13:18:06amiconnJdGordon: Player is red because this root menu includes 2 headers which don't exist for player
13:18:41amiconnJdGordon: It will fail if it can't find the headers of course
13:18:49JdGordonthats what i meant
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13:19:10amiconn...and apps/recorder/ isn't part of the include path for charcell
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13:19:13XavierGrwhat's the shortcut to create another client in linux?
13:19:54*amiconn thought that JdGordon learnt about pointers and 64 bit meanwhile :/
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13:20:14JdGordonill learn eventually
13:20:26preglowit's not hard to remember
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13:22:00JdGordonsweet :) 1pm start tomorow... no need to wake up early
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13:24:20XavierGrnow let me see that root menu feature :P
13:24:54linuxstbpondlife: I still think it's more consistent for the cancel splash to appear every time you press the cancel button - e.g. if you move the cursor down then back to the original value. If you don't want the cancel splash, don't press the cancel button...
13:25:09pondlifeIt's not a cancel button
13:25:12pondlifeIt's a back button
13:25:34markundoes anyone know how to repair a FAT32 drive with win2k?
13:25:47markunIs there some fsck like tool?
13:25:56GodEaterchkdsk
13:26:07pondlifelinuxstb: Besides it didn't always appear once I had the root_menu patch applied, for some reason.
13:26:11markunGodEater: thanks
13:26:15GodEaternp
13:26:37linuxstbpondlife: I guess that's where we disagree - it's cancel in my mind.
13:26:37pondlifeFair enough
13:26:48XavierGrso lets change it to leave the settings as they were instead :D
13:26:49pondlifeI see the splash as a warning that you might have lost a change.
13:26:58pondlifeSo no need to warn if no change made
13:27:17preglowso "back" doesn't cancel anymore either?
13:27:25pondlife?
13:27:25XavierGrit does
13:27:41pondlifeIt just doesn't warn if you hadn't changed the option.
13:27:49XavierGrit just won't show a splash if you didn't change anything
13:27:50preglowah, that's ok
13:27:56 Part DerPapst
13:28:08preglowjust thought it didn't tell you if you actually cancelled
13:28:08pondlifeI know better than to change the button maps ;)
13:28:10preglowand that would be bad
13:30:52XavierGrI will have to learn all those actions I keep pressing the wrong buttons to navigate
13:31:06JdGordonBagder: can you get it to start the source gzip before the compiles start (in a seperate thread) instead of doing it after they are finished?
13:31:10*JdGordon is imaptient :p
13:33:10preglowtake it easy
13:33:10XavierGrso lets say that I am in the root menu, except selecting the Files option isn't there any other way to go to the file browser?
13:33:29LinusNamiconn: 2 builds because it
13:33:54LinusNis convenient to not have to build your own, and to see if a commit breaks the h100 rtc support
13:34:30preglowhe does raise a valid point with the 8 meg mod build, btw, can we drop that? :>
13:34:31amiconnWith the same reasoning all the other mods should get their own builds...
13:34:36preglowit's hard to break that build
13:34:42amiconnWould make the number of builds explode
13:34:58preglowit should depend on how popular a mod is too, if you ask me
13:35:04preglowthe h120 rtc mod seems to be fairly popular
13:35:06LinusNwhat other mods?
13:35:13amiconnHow do you measure popularity?
13:35:31amiconnLinusN: autorock, Ondio backlight, alarm on recv1, ...
13:36:05JdGordonautorock should be enabled by default imo
13:36:05LinusNpopular == more than X people are using it regularly
13:36:22JdGordoneven tho i doubt anyone ever uses it :p
13:36:26preglowautorkc+
13:36:27amiconnMore than X in relation to the total number of users for a target?
13:36:32preglowautorock? <-
13:36:54JdGordonauto start a plugin named autorock.rock in plugins
13:36:58JdGordonon boot
13:37:00LinusNamiconn: no, X in total
13:37:07preglowwhy the hell would you want that?
13:37:45amiconnpreglow: The main purpose was [IDC]Dragons alpine cdc emulator
13:37:58amiconns/was/is/, probably
13:38:00preglowsounds like the only one to me
13:38:07LinusNand bluechips MDB hack
13:38:13linuxstbMaybe some people only use Rockbox for Doom...
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13:38:24preglowhaven't heard too much from bluechip lately
13:38:26XavierGrlinuxstb: it seems so :P
13:38:30JdGordonthe sansa cant dio anything else.. so why not? :D
13:39:28preglowi don't think building all mods is a bad idea, really, but it shouldn't happen at every commit
13:39:44preglowbut then we'd need a build table for that too, which probably is a bit of a bother
13:39:49linuxstbThat's good for checking broken builds though...
13:39:51XavierGrso if you are in the root menu there is no button to go in the file browser *claps*
13:40:11pondlifeSelect Files
13:40:19XavierGryeah only that
13:40:43pondlifeHow did you end up back in the root menu? Once you've been browsing it should go back there anyway
13:40:48JdGordonXavierGr: refer to the commit message :)
13:41:05XavierGrhehe
13:42:01pondlifeJdGordon: This lack of left-to-rootmenu is really annoying though.
13:42:25XavierGranyway you can't please all of them indeed
13:42:34pondlifeI will get used to it I guess
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13:43:07XavierGrwhat's the main reason that this isn't included again? (left to rootmenu)
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13:43:32pondlifeBecause it implies a hierarchy that doesn't exist.
13:43:47pondlifeA bit like the term "root" menu..
13:44:23pondlifeIt would be nice to be able to skip from Database to File system just using the arrow keys..
13:44:24hcsseems that the hierarchy is implied by having file browser accessible from a menu
13:44:29XavierGrJdGordon are you going to adapt the Recording menu on the new systemn too?
13:45:04JdGordon__XavierGr: I tihnk im going to cheat and fix the old menu backend to use the new code
13:45:13JdGordon__because the recordgin menu is annoying
13:45:34pondlifeWhatever results in simplest code. ;-p
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13:46:08JdGordon__exactly
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13:46:40pondlifep.s Did you see the latest settings bug reports from nls on the forum?
13:46:49XavierGrJdGordon: The PLAY button will get you to wps anywhere right?
13:46:57JdGordonyes and yes
13:47:07JdGordonpondlife: sunday hopefully
13:47:18XavierGrthat doesn't apply for the radio though, if you press play it will get you to the radio (if you are in the root menu) but not if you are anywhere else
13:47:18JdGordonassuming i can access svn by then
13:47:27JdGordoncorrect
13:47:41XavierGris that intended?
13:48:03preglowJdGordon: eh, so we'll have two menu apis then? the new, and then the old which is just hacked to use the new?
13:48:11pondlifeAlso info, version, running time and the plugin browser should map PLAY to WPS.
13:48:18JdGordonplay in the menu/browser will take you back to the previous music screen (fm/wps/rec)
13:48:23markunJdGordon: thanks for the root menu man
13:48:29ShaidI still can't get to svn either
13:48:34JdGordonpreglow: no, but that will be a quick fix to get consistancy
13:48:39Shaidso much for routing
13:48:39pondlifeWhen I say WPS I mean WPS/fm/rec too
13:48:41JdGordonmarkun: :) your wlecome
13:48:58preglowJdGordon: quick fixes are ok as long as they don't stay in the code
13:49:05JdGordoni agree
13:49:27JdGordonthe problem is all the plugins using the menu code need to be rewriteen which will suck
13:49:28preglowhaving two apis is just confusing
13:49:31pondlife"For now" ;)
13:49:33preglowtrue enough
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13:50:02LinusNpondlife: that means that we should make it an option in the configure script
13:50:23pondlifeYep
13:50:25LinusNso you won't have to patch config-h120.h to enable it
13:50:42JdGordonalso so a build can be automated..
13:50:45XavierGrJdGordon: Bug, you are right it will go to fm screen again on all ocations except if you are browsing plugins
13:50:45pondlifeJust a -DxxxI assume
13:50:50LinusNJdGordon: exactly
13:50:57JdGordonXavierGr: intended behaviour
13:51:03XavierGrwhy?
13:51:04pondlifeJdGordon: how?
13:51:10XavierGreverywhere else it works
13:51:14JdGordonplay in the plugin browser does nothing
13:51:22LinusNwhy?
13:51:25pondlifeIt should do the same as in the menus
13:51:28JdGordonI copyied svn behaviour there... we can change it tho
13:51:39JdGordondid the last build come out green?
13:51:41LinusNwe should change it
13:51:48pondlifeAlso info, version, running time are the same.
13:52:01LinusNversion is a plugin
13:52:03JdGordonthey might be harder to change
13:52:08XavierGryeah JdGordon is right, it does that only in the plugin browser
13:52:11XavierGrplease fix it
13:52:16JdGordonbut anyway.. the code is in svn now.. not your selves out :)
13:52:18pondlifeOK, thought I'd mention it from a UI p-o-v.
13:52:22XavierGrbecause the plugin browser is just a shortcut of a folder
13:53:59LinusNthat check was there to prevent recursion in the menus
13:54:10LinusNand that recursion is gone now
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13:54:15XavierGrall in all root menu is very nice, though I must have some time with it to manage to get a grip into it
13:54:17JdGordonlook for ACTION_TREE_WPS in tree.c and remove the checks around that section is all that is needed
13:54:24LinusNJdGordon: commit coming up
13:54:48pondlifeThe poor build server will be worn out :-)
13:54:55XavierGrthe most good thing about root menu is that it manages to standarlize keypresses
13:55:01pondlifeYep
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13:55:07JdGordonwell it tries too...
13:55:21XavierGrthough I still hate the left = cancel behaviour :P
13:55:33JdGordonthats not really so easy to fix..
13:55:34LinusNXavierGr: me too
13:55:37JdGordonits a keymap issue
13:56:01pondlifeOn a H300 it's nice, it allows navigation without leaving the arrow keys.
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13:56:23JdGordonmostly because do_set_setting() uses the wrong context.. but if that changes it would be easy to fix
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13:56:39XavierGrpondfile it seems that you cancel too much!
13:56:45XavierGrehm pondlife too
13:56:49pondlifeNo, I view
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13:57:14JdGordonLinusN: you like the idea of inline settings didnt you?
13:57:15amiconnpondlife: Why do you need cancel if you only view anyway?
13:57:16pondlifeI want to navigate setting just like files
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13:57:24pondlifeLeft is to get back
13:57:28XavierGrthen left = accept isn't harming your habbits
13:57:41pondlifeLeft = accept would seem weird to me
13:57:50pondlifeSELECT or right I can understand.
13:57:55amiconnaccept isn't the correct work, because most settings are live anyway
13:58:04amiconns/work/word/
13:58:07pondlifeTrue
13:58:14XavierGrthe only point taken now is that STOP stops music now
13:58:16pondlifeOK, so left to exit with retain would be ok
13:58:21amiconnAnd cancel isn't really cancel, but revert
13:58:22XavierGr(that wasn't the case before the root menu)
13:58:22pondlifeSTOP must still stop music though
13:58:33pondlifeand MENU take you to the menu.
13:58:46pondlifeSo no buttons left?
13:58:52amiconnStop never stopped music in the menus...
13:58:57pondlifeIt does now
13:59:01XavierGrwell it does now
13:59:04amiconnurgh
13:59:14XavierGrand that isn't bad from my point of view
13:59:18JdGordonstop doesnt stop in the setting screens tho
13:59:23XavierGrit is always good to have as many shortcuts as we can
13:59:26pondlifeDoesnt' it?
13:59:31pondlifeI thought it did most places...
13:59:31JdGordonit shouldnt
13:59:32XavierGr?
13:59:36XavierGrI thought it id
13:59:44pondlifeIt does here
13:59:49JdGordonoh? hmm
13:59:51XavierGryeah here too
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14:00
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14:00:30pondlifeConsistency across setttings menus and browsers. A Good Thing IMHO
14:00:31pixelmadoesn't on Ondio - it cancels the menu what I would expect, too
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14:00:50XavierGrcancels the menu?
14:00:50JdGordonpondlife: inside the settin screen... off really stops music?
14:00:51pondlifeWhat keys does the Ondio have?
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14:01:06pixelmacancels the settings
14:01:11XavierGrJdGordon on H100/H300 it does
14:01:16pondlifeJdGordon: Yes, on H300
14:01:30pixelmaOndio has: arrow keys / mode / off
14:01:55XavierGrso what happens when you press off in menu pixelma?
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14:02:11JdGordonfark... i dont have svn code here... it shoudlnt.. and ill fix this when i can..
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14:02:21JdGordonim giong to bed.. gnite all
14:02:21pondlifeJdGordon: Leave it, it's nice!
14:02:27pondlifeGoodnight
14:02:28XavierGrhehe
14:02:34XavierGrNight Jd
14:02:35JdGordonor ill leave it :p
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14:02:48XavierGrthough it must be consistent on all targets
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14:03:06pixelmaXavierGr: it goes up one level - when in the "sound menu" for example, "off" goes back to the "settings menu"
14:03:11pondlifeIt should be, but most important is consistency across a single target.
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14:03:20pondlifeSame as left on the H300 then
14:03:22LinusNpondlife: agreed
14:03:34pondlifepixelma: What does left do in an option?
14:03:35XavierGrpixelma so what happens if you press left?
14:03:39pondlife:)
14:03:46XavierGr:D
14:04:45pixelmadoes the same - it's just that I don't know if the settings was cancelled or accepted... (because there's no splash anymore)
14:05:31XavierGrpixelma the splash will apear if you change a setting and then press left
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14:05:42XavierGrbut I wonder why it is different on H100/H300
14:06:01pixelmaok - it's cancelled too
14:06:20XavierGrso 2 buttons to cancel on ondio
14:06:22pondlifeSo OFF could perform stop there too.
14:06:26XavierGryeah
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14:07:12Domonokybarrywardell_: did you have any success with rbutil on H10 ?
14:08:20pixelmaleft = cancel annoys me though, and if the "off" button behaviour will be changed then I'll find myself stopping music all the time unintentionally..
14:09:08pondlifeYou get used to it.
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14:09:54pixelmathen you could get used to "left = accept" too ;)
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14:10:12pondlifeBut how would I cancel?
14:10:28pondlifeSTOP = stop still, remember...
14:11:04pondlifeSettings is just another browser as far as my brain is concerned!
14:11:21pixelmaactually I would never expect that I could operate music when I'm not in the wps/radio...
14:11:45*pondlife has been running the root menu for too long maybe...
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14:12:56XavierGrand that makes me wonder, where the hell is my ondio FM?
14:13:10XavierGrI am still waiting for it to arrive at the post office
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14:13:18BigBambiI don't like stop stopping music in menus - I kep stopping music instead of quitting the menu - it's hard to change when for years it has been the other way
14:13:20LinusNpixelma: i agree with you, i don't really see the reason to be able to stop the music in every screen
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14:13:45pondlifeI agree that there's no big need, but the UI feels better to me this way.
14:13:46LinusNespecially now, when it has become so easy to reach the wps
14:14:12BigBambibut then, I also dislike left to cancel
14:14:23LinusNme too
14:14:26pondlifeWhy?
14:14:43pondlifeBecause the settings are "live", right?
14:14:47pondlifeI understand that.
14:14:48LinusNyes
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14:15:08pixelmaXavierGr: you haven't received it yet? makes me feel bad...
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14:15:14LinusN(and because rockbox didn't behave like that in the good old days :-)
14:15:14BigBambiyes, live settings, and because I've been using rockbox for a couple of years and it changed not long ago - old habits and all that
14:15:24pondlifeOndioFM build no longer fits in ROM.
14:15:37pondlifeWe have another red Archos build :(
14:15:38XavierGrpixelma: yeah I am still waiting for it, I will email the sender again after the end of this week
14:16:03pixelmapondlife: that was broken before (just didn't show)
14:16:08pondlifeAh, ok
14:16:21XavierGrhow many bytes is it off anyway?
14:16:29LinusNjust remove the fm support and it will fit again :-P
14:16:33XavierGrhehe
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14:16:59pondlifeI don't mind if left accepts. But I like STOP to stop playback for some weird reason.
14:17:40pondlifeAlso I would probably cancel a setting change using UP/DOWN then LEFT....
14:17:56pixelmapondlife: it feels awkward too (for me) because only right=accept but you are taken one level up in the end
14:17:56BigBambidoesn't up down go through lists?
14:18:02pondlifeKeeping the thumb on the arrows.
14:18:16BigBambioh, i see
14:18:18BigBambi:)
14:18:26BigBambithought you went mad for a minute then
14:18:33pondlifeIt has been said before...
14:18:49LinusNi honestly don't see the immediate need to be able to cancel a setting at all
14:18:55XavierGrme too
14:18:59pixelmayeah
14:19:00BigBambime too!
14:19:04pondlifeMe too too
14:19:07XavierGrbut it is nice to have on crucial moments
14:19:16preglowLinusN: good point
14:19:20LinusNXavierGr: like what?
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14:19:35XavierGrthat you definitely forgot which setting you had and want like mad to revert the change
14:19:43XavierGrvery rare though I agree
14:19:49XavierGrI could easily live without a cancel
14:20:19LinusNwe should dig up the irc discussions that led to the addition of the cancel feature
14:20:26pondlifeI think I'd prefer it as it is.
14:20:35BigBambiDidn't it just appear with button actions?
14:20:38LinusNno
14:20:42BigBambiok
14:20:49BigBambiWas it at that time though?
14:20:52pondlifeThere was that horrible tick thing...
14:20:54LinusNleft->cancel was an action thing
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14:21:05XavierGrI really don't know when it happened
14:21:09LinusNit was another button before that
14:21:12BigBambisorry, that's what i meant
14:21:41XavierGrone day after I had missed rockbox development for some days I discovered this misbehaviour
14:21:42BigBambiYou mean the addition of being able to cancel at all? - I don't mind that so much, I just don't like it being left
14:21:56XavierGrcancel was STOP before the change
14:22:07LinusNmakes sense
14:22:12BigBambiyep
14:22:15pondlifeNo
14:22:19XavierGrbut it is true too that it all comes to personal preference
14:22:19BigBambii prefer the good old days :)
14:22:19preglowbut i agree i don't really see the point in a cancel action
14:22:21pondlifeI like STOP to mean stop
14:22:32BigBambiStop this setting changing?
14:22:37pondlifeStop playback
14:22:48BigBambiI know what you mean :) I just disagree
14:22:57LinusNpondlife: why is it important that Stop stops the playback in all screens?
14:22:58preglowi see the point, but i don't think i'd miss cancel at all
14:23:05BigBambime neither
14:23:10pondlifeWhy not? While we have spare buttons, STOP and PLAY could be used for music.
14:23:13preglowas a matter of fact, the only times i've used it, it's been because of a wrong button press, and left me annoyed
14:23:20BigBambiI don't mind losing cancel if it means left goes back to how it was
14:23:27preglowme neither
14:23:29pondlifeLinusN: Consistency I guess
14:23:30preglowi hate left being cancel
14:23:35pondlifeJust feels right
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14:23:45BigBambiI also hate left cancel (as I think I've said)
14:23:49LinusNpondlife: consistency would be that the playback buttons would only work in the playback screen
14:23:58XavierGrhehe poor pondlife, most poeple here dislike left = cancel
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14:24:03pixelmahooray for UI discussions :P
14:24:07linuxstbI could live without a cancel button, but given the choice of LEFT/SELECT/RIGHT being mapped to cancel, I think LEFT makes most sense.
14:24:08XavierGrindeed
14:24:09pondlifeWell, I can always add an option!
14:24:10pondlife ;)
14:24:13BigBambiIf only we all had stop playback buttons :)
14:24:18XavierGrindeed was to pixelma
14:24:27XavierGr(not linuxstb :P)
14:25:24LinusNi seem to recall that the cancel setting feature was a Player issue in the beginning
14:25:25XavierGrthough it is true that I find pondlife's points I still can't really like it
14:25:45LinusNbecause the player has no arrow buttons
14:25:57LinusNand Stop is used to leave a menu
14:26:02XavierGrarchos players are the root of evil :P
14:26:07LinusNhehe
14:26:10pondlifelol
14:26:20BigBambiBut if they weren't, there might be no rockbox!
14:26:25pondlifeRight to select seems wronger than left to cancel if you ask me
14:26:25XavierGrexactly
14:26:32LinusNpondlife: absolutely
14:26:48LinusNpondlife: but most targets map Select to that function
14:26:55LinusN(as well as Right)
14:27:03pondlifeAh, on the H300 maybe it should be SELECT to select and RIGHT does nothinig?
14:27:09LinusNand Select makes perfect sense to me
14:27:32pondlifeSelect means "Do something useful with the highlighted option"
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14:27:41LinusNi still think that the ui would be simpler without the need to confirm a setting
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14:27:53pondlifeRight only makes sense if there is a sub menu.
14:27:55BigBambiMy reason for left accepting, is because I enter a screen with right, move to the setting I want, and back out again
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14:28:19BigBambiI agree with right selecting being wrong
14:28:32pondlifeBigBambi: I agree with you totally, but still want to avoid using STOP for cancel.
14:28:41pondlifeI just see STOP/PLAY on there own as music control.
14:28:45LinusNit's not about Left being "cancel", it's about forcing the user to confirm with either Select or Right
14:28:48BigBambiSure, I don't mind that
14:28:49pondlifes/there/their
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14:29:05LinusNi think the cancel function should go
14:29:08pondlifeYep
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14:29:12BigBambiyep
14:29:14LinusN(i.e the need to confirm the setting)
14:29:17BigBambido it!
14:29:26pondlifeBlimey, if I agree it must be right!
14:29:28pondlife:)
14:29:38LinusNi'll let jdgordon do that, so he can take the heat for it :-) :-) :-)
14:29:38pondlifenot RIGHT, I mean correct.
14:29:48BigBambiha ha
14:29:58pondlifeOK, just need to delete this bit of the IRC log
14:30:08XavierGrhahaha
14:30:08pondlifeNoone on today?
14:30:17*pondlife watches tumbleweed
14:30:25pondlifeThere - that should do it
14:30:29BigBambiLinusN: can you not sneakily commit as JDGordon
14:30:33LinusNhahaha
14:30:37pondlifelol
14:30:42pondlifeThat's what I do!
14:30:56LinusNi just had an idea
14:31:00pondlifeIf it's more than 4 lines changed I use his credentials
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14:31:44pondlifeDo we have a wiki page with all the keypad layouts anywhere? I can't see one.
14:31:52LinusNwhat about letting the UI mark the current setting somehow, so you know what to set it to if you want to revert?
14:32:13XavierGrah that's a nice idea indeed
14:32:27BigBambiGood idea
14:32:28XavierGrthough I don't know how feasible it will be
14:32:30pondlifeCareful, that's how we ended up with that tick that you had to move before exiting... which is how we got here
14:32:40LinusNyuck
14:32:51pondlifeRemeber that, or was it just in my nightmares?
14:33:01pondlifeRemember, even.
14:33:02BigBambijust a little mark by the item you were on so you know where to go back to if you want?
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14:33:09LinusNBigBambi: yes
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14:33:18BigBambiSounds a good plan
14:33:28pondlifeJust a little * or something
14:33:47LinusNwell, let's first remove the cancel, then we'll figure out if there really is a need for that
14:33:58BigBambigood thinking
14:34:01pixelmaLinusN: that idea isn't new - I think lowlight already had it working, don't lnow is it's in the tracker
14:34:08pixelma*know
14:34:14BigBambiI'll party in the streets if left cancel goes
14:34:17LinusNpixelma: hmmm, i think i remember that now
14:34:19BigBambiWell, be happy anyway
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14:37:09GodEaterdoesn't the menu just need to move the highlight over the currently selected option when you enter the setting in order to show you which is current ?
14:37:40pixelmabut one objection could be that it takes more space (maybe disturbing on the small screens)
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14:37:57pondlifeAm I right in thinking that PLAY and STOP buttons are on the side of the H1x0? i.e. not near the joystick
14:38:16BigBambipondlife: yes
14:38:18LinusNyes
14:38:21pondlifeOK
14:38:24pondlifeGood
14:38:25BigBambionly the joystick is on the front
14:39:00BigBambiplay, stop, a/b on the right side and record on the left as you look at it
14:39:13pondlifehttp://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/KeymapIriverHSeries is a nice page
14:39:25LinusNGodEater: yes, but the revert feature is there when you forget which one was selected when you entered the setting
14:39:25perldivergot bunch of tree.c errors while building with the latest svn
14:39:27pondlifePity there's not a page for all targets like that
14:39:47LinusNperldiver: tarball?
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14:39:52GodEaterLinusN ah I see
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14:41:50*linuxstb sits in the corner still thinking select/right are actions that do something with the current item in a list, and left is an action that does nothing with the current item.
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14:42:06perldiveri got album art patch applied maybe thats why
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14:42:24pondlifelinuxstb: That's how I felt, but up/down already did something
14:42:42pondlifei.e. settings are "live", not confirmed
14:42:55pondlifeIt's not like there's an OK or Apply button.
14:43:05pondlifeSo the left does nothing
14:43:09pondlifeJust exits
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14:45:00linuxstbpondlife: Only on a few settings.
14:45:08pondlifeOh?
14:45:16pondlifeI thought they were all like that
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14:45:23linuxstbAnd that's a preview - moving the cursor over a file in the file browser doesn't do anything to it.
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14:45:52*pondlife is starting to be convinced back to how he felt earlier
14:46:28pondlifelinuxstb: So you like the current settings menu best?
14:46:55linuxstbYou mean with left as cancel and select or right as accept?
14:46:58pondlifeYes
14:46:59GodEaterI tend to agree with linuxstb, but I'm prepared to admit I'm in a minority it would seem
14:47:01linuxstbYes.
14:47:32pondlifeWell I agree with you two too.
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14:48:23*webguest92 suggests to create a wiki page or forum where everyone can praise JdGordon for the root menu!
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14:48:40pixelmaUK conspiration
14:48:44GodEaterhit and run praise
14:49:04linuxstbpixelma: :) Maybe it's because we drive on the left...
14:49:13GodEaterhehe
14:49:26pondlife...whilst changing settings...
14:49:34pixelmathat must be the reason! :)
14:49:55pondlifeAll those complaints about crashes...
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14:51:39pondlifeWhy does Mouser_X leave and join so often?
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14:51:52pondlifelol
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14:52:20ShaidI think his connection dies.
14:52:20caduah damn! see....it's a bad thing living in japan :((((
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14:52:49cadujust checked the japanese 'gigabeat' website and the F and X models are DISCONTINUED here :(
14:53:07pondlifeLunchtime.... back later
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14:54:34cadui so want a rockbox-able player :(
14:54:49BigBambiI live in the UK!
14:55:00GodEatercadu: they're discontinued everywhere - you have to get them from ebay as second hand
14:55:10BigBambibut still don't like left cancel :)
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14:56:02pixelmaBigBambi: it's the exception to the rule ;)
14:56:22linuxstbBigBambi: Which target(s) do you use?
14:56:29BigBambiH140
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14:56:45ticktocknow that RTC patch has been incorporated I will do the clock mod to my H140, was waiting for that
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14:58:36caduGodEater: sniff :(
14:58:52GodEatercadu: is using ebay a problem for you ?
14:58:56caduno credit card.
14:59:05GodEaterah - tricky
14:59:42caduman i was really really like jumping around in happiness like 'whoa i'll have my own rockbox!' yay :(
15:00
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15:00:17GodEaterunfortunately I think the case is that most rockbox supported players are discontinued
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15:00:31GodEaterthe only exception is the iPod 5.5G 30GB
15:00:42 Part ticktock
15:01:02cadubut ipods suck at battery life
15:01:03GodEaterand the iPod doesn't bring the best rockbox experience with it
15:01:11caduthat's why i've been avoiding those
15:01:35caduthen...what can i buy in this world that will play more than MP3 and it's not discontinued? :(
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15:01:56Shaidor from australia.
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15:01:59caduiaudio x5l ? (i think i CAN get a CC ....need to have one of those conversations with father :P)
15:02:09Shaidexpensively, but the gigabeats aren't that hard to find here.
15:02:36GodEatercan't you just get your father to get it from ebay for you and you pay him ?
15:03:15caduwill anyone send to japan ?
15:03:30GodEaterhow you going to pay someone in Australia ?
15:03:37caduif i can't get these things new...i was thinking in getting a iAudio X5L ?
15:03:56Shaidhaha
15:04:05Shaidpaypal? /me shrugs
15:04:17Shaideh. there was meant to be a new line between those...
15:04:27cadulife is though :(
15:04:34ShaidI sleep now
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15:04:41GodEaterif he had a paypal account he could ebay
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15:04:48*cadu hides in a corner using his gp2x as music player :P
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15:05:06caduat least someone developed an app for it that has a simple playlist and plays ogg/mp3/flac :P
15:05:11caduat *least* :(
15:05:27***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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15:07:28markuncadu: they have been discontinued everywhere
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15:12:41cadusad *__*
15:13:01caduahahah i was hoping this weekend i could rush some stores and try to find some unsold model
15:13:08cadubut in japan this is impossible
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15:35:10donvitoany progress on the E2xxRs?
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15:58:04Nico_Phttp://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000635.html apparently some people are incapable of learning to program
15:58:28*preglow raises hand
15:58:52Nico_Pthis reminds me of all the "i want this - then learn how to code" discussions
15:59:04pondlifelol
15:59:13pondlife"I can't"
15:59:16Nico_Pexactly
15:59:28Nico_Pwell maybe they were actually telling the truth :)
15:59:50pondlifeExactly
16:00
16:01:09pondlifeI like "8% of students didn't give a damn and left the answers blank"
16:01:34lostlogicI just grinned at that myself.
16:03:42Nico_Pthere's another article on that blog that's frightening about how most programmers are incapable of writing even basic code
16:03:55*pondlife raises both hands
16:04:07Nico_Phttp://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000781.html
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16:07:16XavierGrheh I read both articles yesterday
16:07:28XavierGrpretty funny and sad at the same time
16:08:05lostlogichard to believe that people can pass one of these so-called computer science courses and be unable to write the example program in the latter article
16:08:19webguest52GodEater: isn't it a major problem of RockBox? (That it supports only discontinued players?) RB will then die eventually
16:08:48webguest52We need fresh blood
16:08:49FebsPerhaps you haven't noticed our port to the ipod?
16:08:51lostlogicwebguest52: who says what about the players we support?
16:09:27webguest52lostlogic: yes, the current list is very impressive. But it's not alive
16:09:48preglowhaha
16:10:11preglowgiven the current market, it's hard to even finish a port before it's off the market again
16:10:21webguest52preglow: but true
16:10:39pondlifeRockbox will probably always be about 1 year behind "current". That works out pretty well.
16:10:47preglowindeed
16:10:49webguest52preglow: RB is hunting a very quickly moving target
16:10:57pondlifeSaves us porting to dead-end hardware
16:10:58preglowwe haven't had any problem attracting developers thus far
16:11:17preglowso i don't think this is a problem in any way
16:11:23pondlifeAnd we can reuse lots of our existing code (most times)
16:13:00preglowrockbox could go on for years even with not supporting any newer players than we do now
16:13:06webguest52pondlife: yes, but it becomes increasingly hard. It's hard to get all the specs etc.
16:13:10preglowwe even develop for archos stuff, ffs
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16:13:50webguest52In a few years, it will be like developing software for MS DOS
16:14:19pregloweh?
16:14:22preglowhow come?
16:14:52preglowwhat do you envision to come in newer players that would make that comparison fair?
16:15:14amiconnWell, if all future hardware will be locked down like the nano g2 it will indeed be hard if not impossible
16:15:32pondlifeThere might end up being a Rockbox port to WinCE or something I suppose.
16:15:37webguest52The now discontinued players will die somewhen. And the new models are brought to the market at such a high speed that RB can't be well ported to them (to compete with the OF)
16:16:05markunwebguest52: if someone ports rockbox to any of the TMS320 targets we might get support for a lot more players
16:16:06pondlifewebguest52: Are you on the Zune Linux team?
16:16:14pondlife;)
16:16:40 Quit tri170391 (Remote closed the connection)
16:17:06preglowwebguest52: we don't need to compete with the of
16:17:17markunwebguest52: I think your reasoning was lot more true before the iriver h1xx port than it is now
16:17:57pondlifeC programmers who had not heard of strcpy here - http://davidavraamides.net/blog/2005/05/07/strcpy/
16:18:23lostlogicand the H1x0 port proved that rockbox can go from one "old" generation of players to the next pretty readily and I'm sure that will continue to be the case.
16:18:37lostlogicbesides, we have most of a port to the ipod 5.5G which is the _current_ generation.
16:19:24 Quit perl|work ("Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com")
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16:20:08webguest52I don't want that it comes to be as I described. I only wanted to express my concern. I like RB and use it.
16:20:31markunwebguest52: do you also have a solution?
16:21:43webguest52 No. If I had many daps and wouldn't fear to brick one, I'd probably try to port RB to a new platform. But I only own one (H120) and don't dare to do something with it. Even the RTC mod is not for me.
16:23:00barrywardell_Domonoky: hi, back now. I couldn't get it working on linux, so I tried on Windows instead, using the version in the wiki
16:23:25barrywardell_instlling rockbox SVN build worked fine, as did Fonts install
16:23:43barrywardell_bootloader install brought up an error though
16:24:59webguest52markun: rg. Font install: have you had a chance to look a nimbus patches? It was discussed here recently. I also use them.
16:25:39markunno, still didn't look into it
16:25:44markunbut it's on my todo
16:25:54markunbut so are other interesting things :)
16:26:05webguest52Where? At the top? ;-)
16:26:39markunwebguest52: actually, it is the first item yes :)
16:26:57barrywardell_Domonoky: here's the error log from the bootloader install: http://pastebin.ca/377185
16:27:05pondlifeWhat's the WPS key combo to skip to next directory? Something like short right, long right..?
16:27:11pondlifeH300 btw
16:27:40webguest52markun: Ok. Have a nice day.
16:27:45 Part webguest52 ("gtg")
16:28:09markunjust when you are writing someone a PM..
16:29:45Domonokybarrywardell_: thanks for the test, i will have a look at the problems..
16:29:50pondlifeNoone know...?
16:30:08barrywardell_Domonoky: here's the error I got in Linux too if it's any use: http://pastebin.ca/377189
16:30:44markunpondlife: I don't know, check the source code :)
16:31:12pondlifeI have, it's not obvious
16:31:18*pondlife looks properly
16:31:24Domonokybarrywardell_: in Linux, was this the binary from the wiki, or self built ?
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16:32:25perl|workoh i think i know why i couldnt compile with the latest svn. left-to-wps patch...
16:32:27barrywardell_self built
16:32:40barrywardell_and self-build wxgtk 2.8 too
16:32:54Domonokystrange..
16:33:28barrywardell_I just did ./configure, then make, then make install for wxwidgets. Is that right?
16:33:44barrywardell_or do I need to tell configure to do anything special?
16:34:11Domonokyi think so, i used ./configure −−disable-shared
16:34:23Domonokybut i dont kown if this matters
16:34:28perl|workhttp://geektechnique.org/projectlab/753/how-to-turn-your-ipod-mini-into-a-flash-based-ipod
16:34:50barrywardell_i'll try that
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16:35:21pondlifeIt is short right then long right, but I can't see it in the keymaps anywhere. It wasn't working earlier either, but stopping and restarting playback fixed.
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16:47:12 Part LinusN
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16:49:44Domonokybarrywardell_: can you try this windows binary: domonoky/rbutil-fixH10.zip">http://b23.org/~domonoky/rbutil-fixH10.zip ?
16:50:10barrywardell_yeah, ok
16:50:14Domonoky:-)
16:50:34Domonokynow downloading should work, but there could be more bugs :-)
16:51:17*n1s should test rbutil sometime, if it works well it will get rid of half of our support questions :-)
16:51:23pondlifeHmm, is database browsing a bit borked in SVN, or is it just me? On the sim this is...
16:52:33pondlifeAnd Debug Menu has vanished from the sim too.
17:00
17:01:22linuxstb__Domonoky: I haven't updated recently, but does rbutil now refer to "releases", "archived daily builds" and "current builds" ?
17:01:27 Nick linuxstb__ is now known as linuxstb (n=linuxstb@i-83-67-212-170.freedom2surf.net)
17:03:29Domonokyno, i doesnt, i should change it :-)
17:03:58linuxstbI was thinking a drop-down list of dates for the available "Archived daily builds" would be nice...
17:04:20Nico_Pare build servers all dedicated machines or do some of the owners share their work machine ?
17:04:34barrywardell_Domonoky: Bootloader add: [ERR] File E:\\System\H10_20GC.mi4 does not exist
17:05:04Domonokydrop down list would be nice..
17:05:28***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
17:06:39Domonokybut the file is there ? probably the problem is only the double slash
17:07:55barrywardell_yes, the file is there
17:08:50Nico_PDomonoky: i'd like to test rbutil on linux and i just downloaded the wxWidgets 2.8.0 source package
17:09:08Nico_Pcan i use it to compile rbutil without affecting my whole system ?
17:09:36Domonokyhm.. dont know to much about wxWidgets on linux
17:11:26Domonokybut it should be possible
17:13:11Domonokyif you configure with −−disable-shared
17:13:24Domonokyand do not "make install"
17:13:43Nico_Pi'll try that
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17:14:24Domonokythere is a install.txt in wxwidget2.8/docs/msw/install.txt
17:14:52Domonokyit also describes install for cygwin, which should be applicable also for linux
17:15:10 Quit ender1 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
17:15:25Nico_Pi just tried the bins you put on the wiki... the static one segfaults and the other linux one gives a horrible backtrace
17:15:29B-RangerHy
17:15:32Nico_Pi'll try to compile
17:16:05Domonokyjeah binarys for linux are difficult to make (so they work everywhere) and i dont know how.. :-)
17:16:33B-RangerI'm currently trying to start the Rockbox4ZVM-Project and wold therefore set up a Wikipage at Rockbox
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17:17:46markunB-Ranger: are you the guy who asked for wiki rights but didn't get them?
17:18:06markun(from the ZVM forum thread)
17:18:30B-Rangermarkun: I haven't officialy asked for them, but yes, I'm Hoffmann in that forum
17:18:50B-Ranger*think* Would be less confusing if i would keep one Username
17:18:55 Nick B-Ranger is now known as Hoffmann (n=chatzill@static-67-62-231-178.t1.cavtel.net)
17:19:05 Nick Hoffmann is now known as HoffmannP (n=chatzill@static-67-62-231-178.t1.cavtel.net)
17:19:26markunyou can use whichever nick you want, don't worry :)
17:19:36LloreanAs a note, the page should probably be named CreativeZVMPort rather than Rockbox4ZVM-Project or anything like that.
17:19:51 Quit lee-qid ("aufwiederbyebientotsayonara")
17:19:55LloreanMost ports have a page that looks something like this as a starting point: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IriverPort
17:20:38markunHoffmannP: what's your wiki name?
17:22:15toffeHello
17:22:43markunhi toffe
17:22:52markunany news from your jtag adventure?
17:23:02toffenot yet
17:23:39HoffmannPAhm is that the same as in the forum?
17:24:02HoffmannPI will use your name proposal
17:24:13markunHoffmannP: no, if you don't have a wiki account you need to make one (with your real name btw)
17:24:20HoffmannPok
17:24:36toffefor everybody : I am going to buy a Hot air rework station (used to replace complex chip on a board), so if you need to take off some component of a board, you can send it to me and I will do the job,
17:25:27toffeI found one not so expensive and I going to use it for the gigabeat S
17:26:05toffeIf you need to trace some signal on any board and need to take off some compnonents (memory, cpu) I will do it ;)
17:26:56toffeDon't use your oven anymore :)
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17:29:48markuntoffe: maybe this is something for you? http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=3320.msg70026#msg70026
17:30:14Nico_PDomonoky:
17:30:21Nico_PDomonoky: it compiles but crashes
17:30:33Domonokybarrywardell_: can you try again please ? domonoky/rbutil-fixH10-2.zip">http://b23.org/~domonoky/rbutil-fixH10-2.zip
17:31:24DomonokyNico_P: how does it crash ?
17:31:41Nico_PDomonoky: *** glibc detected *** ./rbutil: munmap_chunk(): invalid pointer: 0x08761adc ***
17:31:55Nico_Pfollowed by the backtrace and memory map
17:31:57Domonokysame as barrywardell
17:32:02Domonokystrange...
17:32:22Nico_Pi get a few warnings when i compile
17:32:30*Domonoky starts colinux
17:32:48Nico_Pit looks like the same thing as when i tried the prebuilt bins
17:32:54Nico_Palthough i'm not sure
17:33:54*Domonoky dont kown whats wrong.. :-/
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17:34:24Nico_Pexactly what i did was build wxWidgets 2.8.0 (which required me to install GTK 2.0 dev files) after configuring with −−disable-shared, added the build dir to my PATH and did make in the rbutil dir
17:35:19perl|workNico_P i couldnt compile today either
17:35:34perl|worki had letf-to-wps and AA patches applied though
17:35:36Domonokyin my colinux (debian) rbutil works, but i cant remember how i configured wxWidgets
17:35:36Nico_Pperl|work: i managed to compile it but it crashed when i ran it
17:35:40perl|workwhich i forgot about them
17:36:01Nico_Pperl|work: rockbox patches won't change anything to rbutil
17:36:12Domonokyrbutil is seperate
17:36:39perl|workah you're talking rbutil, nevermind then
17:38:53Domonokythis bug witch rbutil in Linux is very strange.. it think linuxstb had more success with rbutil under linux..
17:39:24linuxstbIt works fine for me...
17:40:25Domonokygoogle knows this errors, something with glibc ?
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17:41:25pondlifeOops, yellow
17:41:36linuxstbIs there a demand for a Linux version of rbutil anyway?
17:42:23Domonokynot really, i think the "problematic users" are windows and Mac :-)
17:42:37Domonokybut a working linux version would be nice..
17:42:50 Quit Criamos (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
17:43:00inteliwaspi hate finding bad charging cables the hard way...
17:43:28linuxstbpondlife: Why should the browser headings depend on the icon settings? Isn't the icon setting for icons?
17:43:36Nico_Plinuxstb: what linux are you using and what did you do to get rbutil running ?
17:44:07linuxstbI'm using Debian (x86). I did a full install (i.e. configure; make ; make install) of wxGTK-2.8.0.
17:44:24linuxstbI'm pretty sure I passed "−−disable-shared" to configure.
17:44:32linuxstbAnd then just "make" in the rbutil directory.
17:45:18pondlifeNope, the problem is that the headings display icons
17:45:25pondlifeEven when you don't want to.
17:45:44Nico_Plinuxstb: basically i'm doing the same thing, just without the make install part
17:45:46pondlifei.e. Headings + no icons results in headings with icons
17:46:08Nico_Plinuxstb: did the prebuilt bin work for you ?
17:46:15inteliwasphas anyone submitted a feature request on a recharging mode in rockbox?
17:46:35linuxstbAh, the commit message made me think you were only showing headings when icons were shown...
17:47:07pondlifeNope. Just clearing up some UI inconsistency
17:47:09linuxstbNico_P: I'll try it.
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17:48:57barrywardell_Domonoky: still no luck. Similar error: Bootloader add: [ERR] File E:\\System\H10_20GC.mi4 does not exist
17:49:32Domonokybad, hm.. will have to investigate more
17:49:41amiconnDoble backslash?
17:49:45amiconn*Double
17:50:13linuxstbDomonoky: I think the rbutil binary for Linux you uploaded is 100% static - i.e. no shared libraries at all.
17:50:38linuxstbRunning it, I just get "Killed" appear onscreen immediately, and "ldd rbutil" says "not a dynamic executable"
17:51:44Domonokyjeah one of the linux binarys i tried to statify ( a tool to include all dynamic libs into the binary)
17:51:53linuxstbI've uploaded my own build here - http://www.davechapman.f2s.com/rockbox/rbutil-linux.zip
17:52:12Domonokythere are 2 linux binarys on the wiki
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17:52:14linuxstbIt does have a long list of dependencies though...
17:52:34linuxstbDomonoky: I just tried the one dated 22 Feb.
17:52:45Nico_Plinuxstb: i'll try your build
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17:53:15Nico_P*** glibc detected *** ./rbutil: munmap_chunk(): invalid pointer: 0x0876d67c ***
17:53:31griphiamQuick question about the state of AAC... the note in the readme says that future versions of teh FAAD2 codec can't be used...
17:53:49linuxstbDomonoky: Yes, your first linux binary works fine for me...
17:53:55griphiam(due to attribution issue in the license)
17:54:18griphiamDoes this mean optimization plans are on hold at the moment?
17:54:43linuxstbgriphiam: It just means we have forked faad2 from the official code.
17:54:56linuxstb(from the version just before their license change)
17:55:07barrywardell_Domonoky: sorry, wrong error message. No double backslash this time
17:55:11griphiamAhh.
17:55:33linuxstbSome work has been done on it, but the ffmpeg project are working on a new AAC decoder, and the hope is that we can switch to using that at some point.
17:55:53Nico_Plinuxstb: what's your glibc version ?
17:56:01griphiamI'm just weighing if I should recreate my files with ogg or mp3 or wait
17:56:16griphiamCool! I'll check that out
17:56:56griphiamThanks!
17:57:04linuxstbgriphiam: ogg and mp3 are far more popular amongst Rockbox developers - none of us use AAC as their main format...
17:57:39griphiamI realize that... I just had most of my CD ripped in AAC before I switched over
17:58:54linuxstbNico_P: How can I check?
17:59:01markungriphiam: maybe having all your files in AAC is a good reason to work on the codec?
17:59:24 Quit BigBambi ("Leaving")
17:59:27Lloreangriphiam: Well MP3 is more globally compatible, but Ogg/Vorbis doesn't have the same patent guillotine hanging over its head.
17:59:30Nico_Plinuxstb: actually i don't know :p i thought it was as simple as glibc −−version but i's not
17:59:31griphiamThat's why I was inquiring... I wanted to know what the plan was for the codec..
17:59:59linuxstbNico_P: I have /lib/libc-2.3.6.so if that's the same thing...
18:00
18:00:10linuxstbAnd /lib/libc.so.6
18:00:47Nico_Pi don't have one with a version number
18:00:50griphiamOgg is what I was tending towards, but I wanted to keep backwards compatible with the original ipod firmware when I need the full battery life
18:01:21linuxstbNico_P: If you type "ldd rbutil | grep libc", what is displayed?
18:02:06griphiamIf the ffmpeg codec where the project is ultimately headed... I'll take a peek over there to see if there is anything I can do to help
18:02:12Nico_Plinuxstb: libc.so.6 => /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libc.so.6 (0xb76ac000)
18:02:15griphiam(for AAC at least)
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18:02:37linuxstbNico_P: I get libc.so.6 => /lib/tls/libc.so.6 (0xa7624000)
18:03:28Nico_Pi also have /lib/libc.so.6 on my system... can i make rbutil link to that one ?
18:03:48linuxstbgriphiam: The main issue is that the ffmpeg AAC codec is using floating point. We need a fixed-point version for Rockbox. I don't think it's part of the mainline SVN yet either.
18:03:56griphiamhmmm
18:04:09griphiamHow optimized is the fixed point Ogg codec at this point?
18:04:14linuxstbIt was written by a student as part of the Google Summer Of Code last summer.
18:04:29preglowgriphiam: it's fairly well optimised
18:04:31preglowbut more can be done
18:04:36linuxstbOn the ipod, vorbis and mp3 are about the same I think.
18:05:27Domonokybarrywardell_: now hopefully fixed: domonoky/rbutil-fixH10-3.zip">http://b23.org/~domonoky/rbutil-fixH10-3.zip
18:05:40barrywardell_k. i'll test now
18:05:41Nico_Plinuxstb: seriously ? he wrote the whole decoder from scratch ?
18:06:11 Quit inteliwasp ("Leaving")
18:06:16linuxstbI'm not sure - I have a feeling there was already something started, which he just continued.
18:06:40griphiamTremor is the fixed point vorbis decoder?
18:06:46linuxstbYes.
18:06:52Nico_Pi didn't even know rockbox mentored a student for SoC... i thought this year was going to be a first
18:07:07linuxstbNico_P: It was an ffmpeg student.
18:07:14Nico_Pah ok
18:07:43linuxstbYes - this will be the first year for Rockbox if we get it together.
18:08:08Nico_Plinuxstb: how high is the acceptance level for students ?
18:08:20linuxstbI've no idea.
18:08:21Nico_P(i'm a student)
18:08:28hcshmm, wonder if I could get in on this
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18:09:16Nico_Pi was wondering too
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18:09:49Nico_Pbut if i have to be capable of writing a vorbis decoder, i'm not sure i have the level :p
18:10:02barrywardell_Domonoky: works great now :)
18:10:03hcsto obtain such a level...
18:10:19linuxstbIt's OK, we have a vorbis decoder - a WMA decoder will be enough.
18:10:38markungriphiam: http://lists.mplayerhq.hu/pipermail/soc2006/
18:10:48barrywardell_Domonoky: one suggestion is that the H10 only appears as a drive if you put it into UMS mode. Maybe adding instructions to do that would be helpful
18:11:32webguest90could rockbox be changed so that the hold switch would turn off an ipod?
18:11:44hcssure
18:11:45Domonokyjeah, i plan on adding more instruction for the installing..
18:11:45markungriphiam: http://svn.mplayerhq.hu/aac/
18:11:56webguest90is there a dev kit for windows around
18:12:40linuxstbwebguest90: Firstly you nead a Unix-like environment - either Cygwin or a virtual machine running Linux. There are lots of instructions on the website.
18:12:44Nico_Pmarkun: how well does it work ?
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18:13:16preglowlinuxstb: looks like he's back working on it
18:13:16markunNico_P: I have no idea
18:13:30griphiam=) I always find it interesting how little comments there are
18:13:49griphiamUnfortunately Rockbox suffers from that a little too =)
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18:14:00preglow"a little?" heh
18:14:15griphiam;) Just a little
18:14:18linuxstbpreglow: It does indeed, now lets send him a Rockbox target...
18:14:36markunwe can let a student add comments all summer ;)
18:14:38preglowi'd be willing to have a look at porting it to fixed point
18:14:46preglowbut i don't wanna start until it's working well
18:15:17Nico_Plinuxstb: any idea how i can use /lib/libc.so.6 instead of /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libc.so.6 to compile rbutil ?
18:15:30webguest90where can you download the latest source ? without using SVN
18:16:17griphiamgotta run... bbiab
18:16:23 Quit griphiam ("CGI:IRC")
18:17:11linuxstbNico_P: Sorry, no.
18:17:26linuxstbwebguest90: On the same pages you can download the binary builds.
18:17:43webguest90oh the big rockbox logo :)
18:17:46webguest90didnt see that
18:18:02webguest90ok thanks
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18:18:57pondlifeAnyone object to the File Browser having a heading of "Files" in the root directory rather than nothing?
18:19:00 Quit webguest90 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
18:19:10bluebrotherhmm. Shouldn't the database settings be in General Settings rather than below the File View in that? Sounds more logical to me ...
18:19:35markunbluebrother: after today I would say yes
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18:20:51bluebrotherhmm. Do I need to reinitialize the Database? Update doesn't seem to work, and I guess my database is from before the latest changes to the db format
18:21:03pixelmapondlife: what would it look like when someone has a subfolder called "Files" (?)
18:21:37pondlifeSame as it would if they had a sub-subfolder called "Files"
18:21:51pondlifeHard to draw on IRC, but perfectly sensible
18:22:03bluebrotherwhy not call the root folder "Root Folder" in the title? Should also clarify all these "what is the root folder" questions (at least a bit ;-)
18:22:22pondlifeI'm taking the LANG string from the one used in the main menu
18:22:31markunbluebrother: sounds like a good plan to me :)
18:22:34pondlifei.e. I select Files and the next screen is headed Files
18:22:46pondlifeIf you have path displayed it'll be /
18:22:53bluebrothernot showing a title for / is quite inconsistent
18:22:59pondlifeIt annoys me
18:23:10bluebrotheryou have a path shown?
18:23:12markunpondlife: so it would use the name from the language file, right?
18:23:24pondlifeNo just current
18:23:24pondlifeYes
18:23:29pondlifeSo you could change that to Root Folder if you wanted
18:23:30DomonokyH10 bootloader install fix for rbutil is now in SVN ..
18:23:40bluebrotherI have nothing (but I display the current dir only, not the complete path)
18:23:52pondlifebluebrother: That's what I find annoying
18:24:04pondlifeGoing up and down it appears and disappears
18:24:41bluebrotherhmm. And left from the file tree doesn't go back to the RB menu anymore (with file tree set as startup screen) −− I thought it would go back in all cases?
18:25:09pondlifeNo, that was decided yesterday (although I'd prefer left -> main menu personally)
18:25:34*pondlife is not restarting any more old UI arguments
18:25:40bluebrotherah. For all views or only if the tree is set as startup screen?
18:25:41pondlife...just new ones ;)
18:25:51pondlifeNo idea.
18:26:11bluebrotherI like it that way it currently is, but I thought the decision was different.
18:26:16pondlifeIs there a startup screen setting yet?
18:26:26bluebrotheryes, it's hidden in the System settings
18:26:53pondlifeWow, that is well hidden
18:27:25bluebrotherI commented on the FS task once or twice that I don't think this is a good position. Seems nobody cared.
18:27:49bluebrother(I initially only found it by looking at the sources :o )
18:28:11pondlifeThe UI settings need putting together. File View/Display/System....
18:28:19bluebrotherwould make more sense in the Display or General Settings IMO
18:28:33pondlifeDisplay
18:28:57bluebrotherI think the File View entry is ok, just put the Database right below it
18:29:00pondlifeGeneral Settings should probably be moved up a level too (i.e. removed)
18:29:11pondlifeSo you can go Settings -> Display
18:29:18pixelmabluebrother: about left-to-root... the idea was that only the button that calls the menu will lead you to the root menu - from everywhere - so that you don't get the impression of an hierarchy which isn't there so easily
18:29:20bluebrothergood point
18:29:57pondlifeSo nobody objects to me committing this little heading consistency fix?
18:29:59bluebrotherpixelma: I absolutely agree about the "root" (it's not root, it's Rockbox ;-) menu not to imply a hierarchy that's not intended
18:30:14markunpondlife: go ahead
18:30:17pondlifeYep, that was what confused me
18:30:22bluebrotherwhich is also why I dislike the mentioning of that menu as "root menu". Like in the commit message :(
18:30:44pondlifeI'm careful to call it main menu now
18:30:45markunpondlife: wait, what are you going to commit?
18:31:06bluebrotherjust call it "Rockbox Menu" :)
18:31:38pondlifeIf the file browser heading is set to current level only, display "Files" for the root folder. (And yes, I mean root!)
18:31:47GodEaterhave I read somewhere on the wiki that our docs are supposed to be in British English ?
18:31:55bluebrotherGodEater: yes.
18:32:01pondlifemarkun: OK?
18:32:04pixelmatrue... "root menu" can be misleading und easily mistaken for "root directory"
18:32:08pondlifeYep
18:32:18GodEaterthen when do we supply builds for a "grayscale" target (4th gen ipod) rather than a "greyscale" one ?
18:32:23markunpondlife: files, or the entry from the language file?
18:32:24pondlifeAnd it's not already in the lang/voice files
18:32:31pondlifeYes, from the lang
18:32:37markunyes, sure
18:32:52bluebrotherwe have a "grayscale" target?
18:32:58GodEaterlook at the builds page
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18:33:34bluebrotherah. I guess that doesn't apply to the website ;-)
18:33:48GodEaterthat's nice and consistent ;)
18:34:08bluebrotherthe reason for british english is quite simple: Cassandra wrote the initial manual, and she used british. So we stuck to BE.
18:34:16GodEaterthat makes perfect sense
18:34:25bluebrotherbut that unsurprisingly doesn't imply the website
18:34:37pixelmaand not to the UI it seems, for example "initialize now"
18:35:04bluebrothermaybe we should have english-uk and english-us lang files ;-)
18:35:26pondlife"Background Colour" is in there!
18:35:50GodEaterand apparently we don't mention "grayscale" in the manual
18:36:00bluebrotherbut it's correct, the lang file should get adjusted to use at least one spelling consistently.
18:36:00Domonokymarkun: do you have windows ? can you try rbutil on gigabeat ? :-)
18:36:57markunDomonoky: no, don't have windows
18:37:30bluebrotherthe download for the greyscale 4G is even called gray :o
18:37:32GodEaterI have windows and a gigabeat - is there a prebuilt binary for rbutil I can try for you ?
18:37:57*Domonoky needs testers for rbutil with gigabeat and with iaudio
18:37:59pondlifeOK, one more. Anyone think that the Database first level heading should read "Database" instead of "Browse By..."
18:38:11pondlifeThis is a tagnavi.config thing
18:38:55Nico_PDomonoky: i'd be happy to test on gigabeat if i managed to compile :)
18:39:07Domonokyhehe, bad linux :-)
18:39:23GodEaterDomonoky: is there somewhere to get the windows binary from ?
18:39:26Nico_Pmaybe i'll boot windows to try
18:40:54bluebrotherpondlife: not sure ... at least it shows a heading
18:40:54Domonokythe wiki.. ( i am just uploading the fixed versio)
18:41:15pondlifeYep, I'll leave it.
18:41:18bluebrothermaybe "Database Browser"?
18:41:29bluebrotherbut I think the current title is ok.
18:41:34pondlifeI was thinking Database, just like in the main menu
18:41:40Nico_PDomonoky: is munmap_chunk() an rbutil function ? if so, where is it ?
18:42:33Domonokyits not an rbutil function, probably in wxWidgets
18:42:38pondlifeEverywhere else the heading displays the option you just selected.
18:42:48pondlifeWhich is nice.
18:45:59amiconnHmm, is there a description how to open a H1x0 somewhere?
18:46:13amiconnI know that for H300 there is
18:46:40bluebrotherpondlife: I like the new heading for the file view ... but wouldn't it be better to use something that makes it clear it's not a folder? Like "<Files>"?
18:46:56bluebrotheramiconn: rockbox-lounge.com had such a guide once.
18:47:54bluebrotherhttp://www.rockbox-lounge.com/downloads.php?view=detail&id=13
18:47:54pondlifebluebrother: But surely it's the same as if you're in a subdir. The heading is offset so it can't be a folder.
18:48:15pondlifeI thought the name of the thing you just went into was a good bet
18:48:38pondlifeMaybe the LANG file should say "File Browser" not "Files"?
18:48:39bluebrotherhow about using the name of the disk volume for display?
18:48:46bluebrotherok, maybe that's a bit too much ;-)
18:48:47DomonokyGodEater: the new Version of rbutil is now in the wiki
18:48:47pondlifebluebrother: I like that idea
18:48:49pondlife:)
18:48:59GodEater12537.zip ?
18:48:59amiconnbluebrother: Thatks, that was quick :)
18:49:44bluebrotheryou're welcome
18:49:53Domonokyyes, rbutil-win32-r12537.zip
18:50:13GodEaterok got it
18:50:35Nico_Pamiconn: maybe you can help me... how can i compile using /lib/libc.so.6 rather than /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libc.so.6 (it's in rbutil) ?
18:50:51bluebrotherhmm, thinking about it: using the volume name might be indeed good −− afaik windows displays only that name
18:50:54*pixelma often has a "<MMC1>" folder at the top of the root directory...
18:50:59bluebrotherat least the newer versions of windows
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18:51:10GodEaterDomonoky: which feature do you want me to test ?
18:51:25bluebrotherpixelma: doesn't the ondio use the volume name for that folder too?
18:51:27Domonokybootloader installation
18:51:38pondlifepixelma: Does the current SVN look ok to you?
18:51:44amiconnbluebrother: A volume name isn't mandatory on (v)fat(32)
18:51:57Domonokythe rest should work on every platform
18:52:01GodEaterDomonoky: it failed
18:52:06pixelmabluebrother: nope, not yet. [IDC]Dragon has plans to implement that
18:52:11GodEaterI'm *guessing* because I'm behind a proxy server
18:52:12pixelma*had
18:52:22GodEaterit couldn't download the right files from the rockbox web site
18:52:27amiconnHrrm, no torx T5... :(
18:52:27bluebrotheramiconn: I know, but if there is one present we could use it. I assume most drives have one set
18:52:38DomonokyGodEater: can you give me the exact error message ?
18:52:48Domonokyand which target ?
18:53:07pixelmapondlife: haven't updated to the newset yet
18:53:10pondlifeOK
18:53:17pondlifeJust wondered
18:53:19GodEaterDomonoky: gigabeat F
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18:53:35GodEaterI didn't save the error sorry - I'll go do it again and write it down this time ;)
18:53:44Domonoky:-)
18:54:59Nico_Pamiconn: any ideas about my earlier question ?
18:55:09lowlightpondlife: your fix for heading/title icons should go in apps/gui/list.c
18:55:22GodEaterDownload URL: Can't get input stream (3) reading http://download.rockbox.org/bootloader/gigabeat/FWIMG01.DAT
18:55:27amiconnNico_P: Umm, no, sorry
18:55:41GodEaterthat enough - or do you want the other two lines ?
18:55:46pondlifelowlight: I'll look
18:55:46Nico_P:(
18:55:50lowlightpondlife: line 241 should check for "draw_icons"
18:56:05pondlifeCool, we can then remove all the other tests, right?
18:56:17Domonokyhm.. strange it cant download ?
18:56:21Nico_PLinusN: maybe you know... how can i compile rbutil using /lib/libc.so.6 rather than /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libc.so.6 ?
18:56:37GodEaterDomonoky: as I say - I'm behind a firewall - so I have to go via a proxy server
18:56:40lowlightpondlife: yes
18:56:49Domonokyah, that could be it..
18:56:49GodEaterI'm guessing rbutil assumes a direct internet connection
18:57:09pixelmapondlife: could it be that showing the folder name as heading can be switched off - if so I didn't use it anyways...
18:57:24pondlifepixelma: Yes, that's the default
18:57:26Domonokycould be, it just uses download functions from wxWidgets .. i will checl
18:57:47bluebrothermaybe that should default to on (for the fancy gui users)?
18:58:00preglowjhMikeS: i'm bloody convinced i get wraparound noise when doing very high gains with the eq
18:58:04pixelmanoo, takes precious screen space
18:58:06preglowjhMikeS: i'll have to dump the audio to a file one day
18:58:34bluebrothersure, but you can change that easily −− and most of the users have too much screen space :o
18:59:01bluebrotherand it's not an issue for blind people
18:59:45bluebrotherI need to change the startup screen to get the old feeling too ...
18:59:53LinusNNico_P: perhaps use LD_LIBRARY_PATH?
19:00
19:00:10Nico_PLinusN: that's an environment variable ?
19:00:16LinusNyes
19:00:27pixelmawell... I don't care so much because there are a few other default settings I always change (i.e. have in a .cfg file)
19:00:49bluebrothersame for me ...
19:01:14Nico_Ptrying...
19:01:23GodEaterNico_P: also you could try removing /lib/tls/i686/cmov from ld.so.conf and then re-run ldconfig
19:01:43GodEaterld.so.conf lives in /etc
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19:02:23Nico_PGodEater: i didn't even run ldconfig after making wxwidgets... what does it do ?
19:02:38GodEaterconfigures the search path for ld (the linker)
19:02:51GodEaterso it knows where to find shared object files
19:03:25GodEater*some* distros don't have ld.so.conf (Ubuntu for example) by default, but WILL honor it if you create it
19:03:41GodEaterall it contains is a list of directories with .so files in, one per line
19:03:48Nico_Pi do have one (i had it befor running ldconfig)
19:04:17amiconnHmm, H1x0 rockbox bootloader hangs when there is no partition on the drive. Not good. :/
19:04:31*GodEater knows his ldconfig-fu from fighting with a variety of packages that wouldn't play nice once upon a time
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19:05:31***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
19:05:32toffejust test rbutils, no error, it is working fine
19:05:41Nico_PGodEater: /lib/tls/i686/cmov doesn't seem to be in ld.so.conf
19:07:18GodEatercurious - wonder where ld is getting it from
19:07:22LinusNamiconn: ah, good that you reminded me about that
19:07:25Domonokytoffe: which target ?
19:07:35toffeI installed the bootloader, the fonts and rockox with no problem, only one thing, as it was already installed the bootloader as ask to delete the .ORIG
19:07:38toffeF40
19:07:47Nico_PGodEater: there's practically nothing in the file
19:07:48*amiconn just mounted a new MK8007GAH into his H140
19:07:55LinusNamiconn: niiiiiiice
19:08:13amiconnSold as used, but obviously completely blank...
19:08:22Domonokygigabeat, good, so thats also working :-) (the advice to delete the .Orig is not good) :-)
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19:08:39toffecan you modify for the bootloader, if rockbox is already install, just update the fwimg.dat without creating the copy
19:08:52Domonokyjeah would be better
19:08:57Domonokywill change it
19:09:27 Quit atsea-145193 (Excess Flood)
19:09:59amiconnA small flat heat screwdriver (1.5mm) worked nicely in place of a torx T5
19:10:44amiconn*head
19:11:05amiconnDay of typos, obviously :\
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19:11:52amiconnLinusN: Hmm, does that mean this problem is known? I would have expected some sort of error message...
19:12:34LinusNi discovered this over a year ago when using a H140 as an external NTFS drive
19:13:12*Domonoky found a way to use a proxy into rbutil, now to code a menu..
19:16:16jhMikeSpreglow: I've cranked it and just don't seem to hear the distinctive crackle sound. I just get distorion fuzz. < 5min to add a dump though.
19:18:29bonbonthejonwith the new menus, would it be possible if you are playing a song and go into the menu then leave it sit, have it go back to the WPS
19:18:57LinusNshould be possible, i guess
19:19:07 Part illdred
19:19:20LinusNi wouldn't want it to do that though :-)
19:20:12preglowis anyone here now currently trying to make me authorise them on google talk?
19:20:14bonbonthejonLinusN: if i leave it on menu too long, i'd want it to go back to the WPS
19:20:45preglowjhMikeS: 24 db gain at bass does nicely here
19:20:53preglowjhMikeS: the distortion changes character rapidly
19:21:02preglowjhMikeS: stops sounding like clipping and starts sounding like overflow
19:21:13LinusNbonbonthejon: it would of course be selectable in the settings
19:21:19preglowjhMikeS: yeah, i'll add a dump func some time
19:21:28preglowcan't now, though, need to codeon other stuff :/
19:21:33bonbonthejonLinusN: yeah, maybe that would be a good idea
19:21:36pixelmabonbonthejon: I guess that will always kick in at the wrong time...
19:22:12bonbonthejonpixelma: well just now, i must have left it on menu for 5 minutes, i think it would be ok by then
19:22:53LinusNbonbonthejon: out of curiosity, why do you want it do automatically go to wps?
19:23:18perl|workjhMikeS i had no issues with crossfading after your fix but out of 50 or so FLACS 2 has corruption sounds in the middle of them, was hard to reproduce though
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19:23:26perl|workcrossfading itself is smooth
19:23:43bonbonthejonLinusN: maybe it is better this way
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19:24:35LinusNbonbonthejon: i'm just curious
19:25:25jhMikeSperl|work: that one's a little unclear why it should happen
19:25:43bonbonthejonLinusN: well i was looking at a menu option, looked back at my laptop for 5 minutes, I just thought it would be good that it went back to WPS
19:25:51jhMikeSpreglow: I think the way emac satuation works it might lend a distinctive sound to things
19:26:01preglowjhMikeS: why would it do that?
19:26:04perl|workjhMikeS well maybe this time its completely unrelated
19:26:12preglowjhMikeS: it's the same on arm, btw
19:27:02LinusNbonbonthejon: file a feature request (if there isn't one already for this feature)
19:27:12bonbonthejonLinusN: ok
19:27:19jhMikeSI think that might apply to int mode more since the muls saturate as well as the accumulators
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19:28:34preglowjhMikeS: no int mode here, and anyway, arm is exactly the same
19:28:38jhMikeSdo you do any left shifts that aren't saturated? the pregain does...and it would ideally use both int and frac
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19:29:15preglowas a matter of fact, i do...
19:29:18jhMikeSbut you say arm does the same so I dunno
19:29:19preglowindeed i do
19:29:22preglowthat would explain it
19:29:39jhMikeSoh, well that might actually
19:30:05preglowit has to be that
19:30:11preglowi wonder why the hell i didn't think of that myself
19:30:14preglowit's the only solution
19:30:59jhMikeSideally a mac instruction would have a mode override so you could use int mode to shift left on cf. not sure what the price of changin macsr in a loop is :)
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19:31:31preglowi can't apply emac only solutions
19:31:37preglowi need to do arm as well
19:32:08jhMikeSWell, if the bits that get shifted out are not zero it should wrap no?
19:32:20DomonokyGodEater: try this binary: domonoky/rbutil-proxy.zip">http://b23.org/~domonoky/rbutil-proxy.zip you can set now a proxy in the menus
19:32:31jhMikeSor all ones for the negative case anyway
19:33:36pondlifelowlight: Thanks for the tipoff, I just got my first green in the size table :)
19:33:46preglowwon't all overflow?
19:34:58jhMikeSnot if it's saturated to a safe level before shifting...makes me mad SATS is ISA_B only :)
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19:35:12preglowhaha
19:35:53preglowhmmm
19:36:51preglowfor arm, the carry bit is set if a one the last bit shifted out was set
19:37:05preglowbut that might easily be zero and still overflow
19:38:08preglowi guess the only real solution is creating coefficients with fewer int bits
19:38:53jhMikeSat least make sure that's it first...just saturate before the shift (who cares if it's slow) to check it. *shrugs*
19:39:05preglowit's gotta be that
19:39:12preglowcan't be anything else
19:39:14preglowbut we'll see
19:39:24preglowcan't test now, i'll just end up working on rockbox and i don't have time now
19:39:25HcC-what's the biggest advantage of running rockbox?
19:39:28*preglow vanishes
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19:43:06*jhMikeS takes a timeout and counts to 2^32 to calm down
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19:44:57bonbonthejonHcC-: rockbox is more customizable
19:46:13LloreanHcC-: Depends on what player you have, and what uses you have for it.
19:46:56LloreanHcC-: For those of us who don't look at the screen during playback, graphical customization doesn't mean much, but the increased format support does. Or the improved battery life on the more mature targets.
19:47:50pondlifeHcC-
19:47:55pondlifeOops
19:48:19pondlifeHcC-: Rockbox has a voice interface and crossfades tracks nicely
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19:53:11HcC-hmm
19:53:14|Rincewind|HcC-: look here: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/WhyRockbox
19:53:17HcC-well, I have a 30gb ipod photo
19:53:58pixelmanot to forget that you can drag-n-drop your music and play it
19:54:35HcC-I'm assuming the xlinux gamegear emulator won't run
19:54:48LloreanRockbox isn't Linux.
19:54:50HcC-er ipodlinx
19:54:53HcC-I know
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19:59:09LearHm.. Shouldn't the recording settings menu entry be moved up a bit? To before manage settings?
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19:59:48|Rincewind|I would suggest to put recording settings inside general settings
20:00
20:00:27|Rincewind|it is not needed very often because you can enter the settings from the recording screen anyway
20:01:34*petur agrees
20:02:33LloreanI thought we were going to take everything out of "General Settings" since you're already in the settings menu.
20:02:50LloreanOr some similar sort of reorganization
20:02:54|Rincewind|Llorean: I hope so
20:03:00jhMikeSperl|work: so do these glitches show up on the same build as crossfade glitch did?
20:03:31Llorean|Rincewind|: Once I'm no longer sick, I plan to try draft a suggestion for an entire menu structure reorganization, if I can come up with something I think is better.
20:03:47LearYes, having most settings two levels down isn't ideal...
20:04:00LloreanA lot of settings seem in very strange places to me.
20:04:06|Rincewind|Llorean: I would like to help with that.
20:05:02perl|workjhMikeS i built one last night, before the big menu change
20:05:11|Rincewind|It seems to go around with being ill, last week I was sick for 6 days.
20:06:00 Quit web-taz (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
20:06:02LloreanHeh
20:07:26perl|workjhMikeS same FLAC files ive been playing around with for the last 2 weeks
20:07:34perl|workso i know them pretty well
20:08:08perl|worki listened to about 50 tracks this morning
20:08:46perl|work2 had very audible glitches in the middle of them
20:09:08perl|worki did the rewind, couldnt reproduce them
20:09:48jhMikeSright: just wondering if you can narrow the date down that first has it. that helped a lot in getting to the crossfade one.
20:10:32jhMikeSso you mean it showed up only last night?
20:10:57perl|work1 Mar 00:26 Jens Arnold was the last change before i compiled
20:11:52perl|workwell its hard to say cause before your fix we had the crossfade trouble
20:12:04perl|workso i was always reverting to 0222 build
20:12:10perl|workto actually use the player
20:16:58Lloreanbarrywardell_: Were you the one who did a bunch of work on unifying the bootloaders?
20:17:46pixelma? nice feature - guess that's because of the recently added "AlbumArtist" tag - but I just initialised database and at the step of commiting the files after reboot it says "committing 8/7"
20:18:39jhMikeSperl|work: what other sound features are on? eq (precut too?), dither, replay gain, etc? voice file or no? are the flacs 44.1 khz?
20:18:49 Quit tvelocity ("Αποχώρησε")
20:20:23perl|workjhMikeS, 44.1khz, everything you mentioned is off, except full EQ on including precut
20:25:25perl|workand crossfade of course but no issues during actual crossfading
20:25:47jhMikeSI think the eq filters have had some modification recently. The precut is the same function that handles replaygain but that is not altered.
20:32:20jhMikeSno channel mode or crossfeed either?
20:32:23Lloreanperl|work: Generally when you encounter what might be a bug, you reset the settings to default (or default + the one setting that appears to be going wrong if it's say, a crossfade issue) and see if it still happens like that so you can narrow it down.
20:32:34pixelmaSlasheri: around?
20:33:18perl|workLlorean that what i did with the crossfade issue and jhMikeS was quick to fix it
20:33:47Lloreanperl|work: But it sounds like you've got a whole host of settings changed for this issue.
20:33:57perl|workjhMikeS nope, those are off as well
20:34:58jhMikeSFor this, setting all the sound stuff to plain passthrough should be good. So try with/without eq, and with/without precut.
20:35:09perl|worki will
20:35:39LloreanjhMikeS: Should he try with only on EQ filter, and then one Shelf filter?
20:35:47Lloreanone.
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20:38:05jhMikeScould try a shelf and a peaking one alone. the coefficients are set differently.
20:38:39barrywardell_Llorean: yeah. I did good bit of the work. LinusN fixed the problems with the X5 and HXXX bootloaders
20:38:46perl|workmight take a while since it occurs rarely
20:38:56Lloreanbarrywardell_: I was just wondering, was there any plan to unify the way they work from a user perspective too?
20:39:09barrywardell_how do you mean?
20:39:30Lloreanbarrywardell_: There are some very significant differences here and there. The Gigabeat one, for example, has that image loading function, and doesn't see the rockbox binary if it's in .rockbox
20:39:34Lloreanbarrywardell_: Or didn't last time I checked
20:39:46Lloreanbarrywardell_: And I understood several others didn't see the rockbox binary in the .rockbox folder either.
20:40:16barrywardell_ah, yes. well the gigabeat one hasn't been unified yet because the unified gigabeat bootloader didn't work for the guy who tested it
20:40:17Lloreanbarrywardell_: As well, the ones we have in flash have USB modes, but on the other targets nothing is done about a USB connection at all, it's just ignored.
20:40:22amiconnAfaik all swcodec bootloaders do, and those are the only ones where it makes some sense
20:40:48barrywardell_all the ones that have been unified look for the rockbox binary in the same place, give the same error messages/codes
20:41:10Lloreanbarrywardell_: Okay, so it's just that gigabeat hasn't been unified.
20:41:13LloreanWhat about USB detection?
20:41:22linuxstbIt seems the "load_raw_firmware()" function (which is what the gigabeat uses, but shouldn't) doesn't check the .rockbox directory.
20:41:33barrywardell_yes. I can't really go further because I have no gigabeat to test with
20:41:35LloreanWith the iPods and such, a boot with a USB cable attached could boot into disk mode, rather than Rockbox and then reboot into disk mode.
20:41:44barrywardell_the gigabeat bootloader code is a bit of a mess atm too
20:42:31amiconnLlorean: Yes, but then the bootloader needs to be able to detect true usb vs. usb charger, and hence fiddle with the usb chip
20:42:44amiconnI don't know whether the apple fw will like that
20:42:58Lloreanamiconn: Ah, that makes sense.
20:43:05linuxstbLlorean: That should be preventable now we can rolo diskmode directly from flash.
20:43:14linuxstbi.e. skip the reboot step.
20:43:33amiconnCan we?
20:43:47amiconnDoesn't work here....
20:43:48Lloreanamiconn: And since our loader is on disk anyway, I assume there won't be a bootloader-USB mode on iPod even when we have USB.
20:43:55linuxstbI think so... SVN Rolo should be able to load the diskmode.ipod file.
20:43:59barrywardell_linuxstb: hmm. you're right there. the load_raw_firmware() takes a full file path
20:44:14linuxstb(dan_a committed COP support for rolo a few days ago).
20:44:21barrywardell_linuxstb: but the gigabeat bootloader doesn't use that function without my patch applied
20:44:53linuxstbbarrywardell_: But the SVN version seems to.
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20:45:52barrywardell_oh, I hadn't noticed that. someone must have committed a change since my version
20:46:03linuxstbYes, I think LinusN did a little work on it.
20:46:31LloreanAlright, and what about this Bootsplash functionality that the Gigabeat bootloader got saddled with?
20:46:38LloreanI admit it looks pretty in use.
20:46:55barrywardell_my reasoning was that load_raw_firmware would be used to load an OF which is in different places based on the target
20:46:56LloreanBut something about it feels wrong to me, so I'm kinda straddling the line regarding it, and wondering about where it's going.
20:47:05barrywardell_eg. /System on PP targets
20:47:41linuxstbPersonally, I think a blank screen in the bootloader is the way to go. Keeps things simple, and let the user customise rockbox itself.
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20:48:27Lloreanlinuxstb: Just splash an error message if there is one, otherwise show nothing?
20:49:42linuxstbYes. In practice, we'll keep writing the text, but only call lcd_update() if there's an error (or maybe let a user hold a key to show the text).
20:50:06barrywardell_I was thinking about that too. A splash is nice for user friendlyness. Show that first, then do as linuxstb says
20:50:21linuxstbI tried it on my ipod, and removing all those lcd_update() calls gives a noticable increase in boottime.
20:50:29Lloreanlinuxstb: I rather like that.
20:50:49barrywardell_the problem with working with the bootloader is that you have to own the targets and be able to unbrick them
20:50:51linuxstbLlorean: If you want to test, just comment out lcd_update() in the printf() function in bootloader/common.c
20:51:20LloreanThe bootsplash is pretty, but it seemed to me that customization should begin at the point where Rockbox itself actually booted, and that would also allow the use of an actual .bmp file anyway.
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20:53:36barrywardell_I would be in favour of only doing a lcd_update if there's an error
20:53:58barrywardell_and what about only looking for the rockbox binary inside .rockbox?
20:54:24Lloreanbarrywardell_: It's supposed to look first in /.rockbox, then outside, with the plan eventually to have the builds start putting it in there.
20:54:43LloreanOnce there could be a reasonable assumption that users were using a new enough bootloader to have that feature.
20:55:19peturin the bootloader we could swap the dull ligh blue for some nice gradient... at almost no extra cost
20:55:34barrywardell_ah, ok. How long has that been in place? Can that assumption be made yet?
20:56:07Lloreanbarrywardell_: I believe it was when the H120 bootloader went to either v5 or v6, and it was said "We should wait a while to make sure people have upgraded"
20:56:26Lloreanv6
20:56:54LloreanSo, um, I think more than a year.
20:57:28LloreanBut the Archos builds still, by necessity, need to have the firmware image in the root, and the gigabeat build will apparently need so too at the moment.
20:57:39barrywardell_so the question is, how long is "a while"?
20:58:19barrywardell_and can we do it separately for different targets?
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20:58:45LloreanWell, I think anyone who hasn't upgraded to v6 yet isn't going to without incentive by this point.
20:58:55LloreanAnd I _think_ it would just be a matter of the make zip part of the build script
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20:59:56barrywardell_if we could do it separately for different targets, then we could do it for ipods/sansa/h10 for now
21:00
21:00:09LloreanI think and the iRiver H100/H300
21:00:41LloreanSeeing as they've been able to do it since, I think, before there was an iPod port, if people were using the last bootloader released for 'em.
21:01:17pixelmaso would additional firmware files you can rolo in (to try out for example) still work when they are in the root directory then?
21:01:36Lloreanpixelma: RoLo shouldn't care where the files are, I believe.
21:01:44LloreanIt's just a case of where the bootloader itself looks while loading.
21:01:47barrywardell_linuxstb, Llorean: how would you feel about me getting rid of the lcd_update() until there is an error?
21:02:27Lloreanbarrywardell_: I'm personally for it.
21:03:27Nico_Pcan someone explain to me why the wps code is split bteween gwps and gwps-common ?
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21:06:00LloreanNico_P: Is it obvious that they should be combined?
21:06:38amiconnThere really should be no reason not to do it for X5 as well if it's decided to be the intended placement of rockbox.target
21:06:46Nico_PLlorean: i don't know, but i don't quite get how they are divided
21:07:03amiconnAfaik the X5 bootloader supports both locations in all its versions
21:07:22amiconnThe only problematic target atm is the gigabeat
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21:10:10LinusNbarrywardell_: i would want a way to force an lcd update
21:10:24barrywardell_like a button press?
21:10:57LloreanYes, that would be good
21:11:13LloreanSince we sometimes need to ask people their bootloader version, or other information reported by it, even when the bootloader itself doesn't error.
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21:11:40Lloreanamiconn: I do think that having the .target file in /.rockbox/ makes the filetree look much nicer. Where does "Browse Firmwares" look right now for .target files?
21:12:06amiconn"Browse firmwares" was removed some time ago... :/
21:12:54amiconnSo if I want to rolo because I want to test something, I can do so right now by just going to the root
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21:13:42amiconnWith the binary in .rockbox, I would first have to change "file view" to "all", then go into .rockbox, and then rolo. Cumbersome.
21:14:21barrywardell_but how often would a normal user do that?
21:14:30LinusNi wonder that too
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21:14:36linuxstbI don't really mind what the official zip files do, as long as the bootloader keeps looking in both places, meaning users can continue to choose.
21:14:41preglowgod, how little i miss "browse firmwares"
21:14:47preglowi'm not a regular user and i never used it
21:15:05LinusNi rarely use rolo myself
21:15:14LloreanWhy didn't we just move Browse Firmwares to the debug menu?
21:15:16pixelmaI used it a lot lately
21:15:37Lloreanamiconn: If the bootloader still looks in both places, you can just move your alternate firmwares, and the original .target file, to the root before booting the player that first time.
21:15:39linuxstbIt could actually become useful on ipods though if Rolo is ever 100% working - AppleOS, IPL, Rockbox...
21:15:51preglowif you're going to do a lot of roloing, just set file view to "all"
21:15:59amiconnI use rolo quite often, more convenient a reboot than shutdown + power on
21:15:59preglowi always keep it at that anyway
21:15:59linuxstb(and diskmode and diagmode)
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21:16:18Lloreanlinuxstb: Yes, being able to Rolo AppleOS is one of my biggest desires right now, honestly, since that would allow exceptionally fast boot times and still being able to use a decent speed USB mode.
21:16:26linuxstbHow about a reboot option in the new "System" menu?
21:16:50Lloreanlinuxstb: I am beginning to feel that textual "Shut Down" and "Reboot" options wouldn't be amiss.
21:16:51linuxstbWhich would just rolo the rockbox.xxx file.
21:16:57preglowlinuxstb: btw, i had a go at removing -mlong-call yesterday
21:17:08preglowlinuxstb: failed completely
21:17:16linuxstbI think everyone has tried that at one point... :)
21:17:32preglowyeah, but i did it the way amiconn thinks would work
21:17:38preglowand which looks promising
21:17:51amiconnlinuxstb: 'just rolo' would only be correct for firmware loaded from file system, but not for flashed firmware or when loaded from the firmware partition
21:18:00preglowbut gcc kept insisting to call functions i had attributed with "long_call" with short calls
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21:18:06preglowin some cases
21:18:07preglowmostly thread.c
21:18:13linuxstbamiconn: True...
21:18:14preglowi hope i was doing something wrong
21:18:41amiconnBut a reboot option should just have to do a clean shutdown, then do a cpu reset
21:19:01amiconn(instead of cutting the power)
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21:21:49amiconnProbably some hardware needs deiniting in case one decides to reboot into OF
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21:27:56linuxstbLlorean: Does storing the Apple firmware as apple_os.ipod not work for you? (the bootloader should be able to load it)
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21:28:15Lloreanlinuxstb: The bootloader loads it fine.
21:28:33Lloreanlinuxstb: But ipodpatchering the rockbox.ipod to the bootpartition shaves another couple seconds off boot.
21:28:39LloreanThat's all.
21:28:58linuxstbAh, OK. Nice to see ipodpatcher being used as a verb...
21:29:33LloreanIt doesn't really lend itself to it, it seems.
21:29:35LloreanNot like dd.
21:29:53linuxstb-wf'ing...
21:30:24LloreanThat'd work.
21:30:46LloreanBut yeah, on the Nano Rockbox loads in about the time it takes me to blink if I've -wf'ed Rockbox to it instead of a bootloader.
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21:31:19preglowipodpatchering <- verb of the week
21:31:37amiconnOne day I'll write that ipodpatcher.rock...
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21:32:56ep0chwhen's jdgordon usually around?
21:33:04linuxstbI would prefer an ipod_flash.rock...
21:33:38amiconnhmm...
21:33:45ep0chme thinks that database shouldn't be listed in the root menu if database isn't enabled
21:34:00linuxstbep0ch: Probably in the next hour or two - I think it's around 7.30am for him now.
21:34:07ep0chta
21:34:12amiconnFlashing shouldn't be difficult, the question is whether it'd be wanted (unless we can handle all hardware)
21:34:14bluebrotherep0ch: he's in australia, so at night for us ;-)
21:34:29amiconnAnd it'd mean an ipod would no longer be unbrickable...
21:34:46preglowamiconn: at least the firmware is pretty easily disassembable
21:34:46linuxstbYes, we would definitely need to keep the feature hidden...
21:34:53preglowdisassemblable...
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21:35:12linuxstbBut I don't think diskmode is a show-stopper anymore, now that we've discovered it's a standalone app.
21:35:12preglowand with the pp emulator, we can pretty much see what is done to the hardware anyway
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21:35:43linuxstbThe flashing process can keep the original Apple diskmode app in flash, which can be launched when needed.
21:36:08linuxstbBut I know we still have a lot to learn about the hardware...
21:36:08preglowindeed
21:36:22preglowat least for me, the prospect of flashing an ipod doesn't seem so impossible anymore
21:36:45amiconnDefinitely
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21:36:54LloreanI wouldn't mind being able to finally drop the whole boot partition entirely in the future.
21:37:01preglowoh, indeed not
21:37:06linuxstbIndeed, that would be nice.
21:37:10*amiconn thinks he should add flash id detection for ipods
21:37:18preglowno more apple logo on boot
21:37:27amiconnMost, if not all, other targets have it
21:37:33linuxstbamiconn: I tried that over the weekend, but couldn't get it to work...
21:38:23linuxstbI even went as far as unmapping memory, putting flash back at 0x0, and the DRAM at 0x10000000, but it didn't like it. Hopefully I was just doing something stupid and it will work first time for you...
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21:41:19linuxstbep0ch: Regarding database in the root menu, I think it's good to have it there so new users know it exist. I also think it would be nice if it asks you if you want to initialise it when you first select it.
21:42:08Lloreanlinuxstb: I definitely think it should offer that, though I still feel that there should be some more clear sign that the database initialization is in-progress.
21:43:21LinusNabsolutely, the current silence is horrible
21:43:57LinusNsure, updating in the background is cool and all, but the user wants to know when it is done, and doesn't mind waiting
21:44:16LinusNuser friendliness should be a priority in this case
21:44:50LloreanEspecially since most of our users who use the DB at all, depend on it to even find their music so aren't likely to be doing much else while they wait, but wait.
21:45:07Slasherii hope there would be support for viewports/different windows
21:45:19Slasherithen there could be tagcache statusbar visible while it's building
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21:45:33LloreanI know we have that "DB Status" page in the debug area, could we show users that when they select the Database from the root menu, if it's in-progress?
21:45:36LinusNSlasheri: i don't think many users would care
21:45:38LloreanAnd maybe add a message to reboot when it's done?
21:46:16SlasheriLinusN: but that statusbar would be always top of all screens until scanning is finished
21:46:27Slasheriand user could continue using the player in meanwhile
21:46:46pixelmaspeaking of database... should I be able to "update now"?I think I heard that this is impossible when database is not in RAM - and afaik this is not possible on Archos or maybe I don't remember correctly...
21:47:02LloreanSlasheri: If that were the case, you could just replace the disk access icon with a % complete.
21:47:05LinusNSlasheri: that's what i mean - i don't think many users care about being able to use it while building the database
21:47:11LloreanSince the disk access icon isn't much use while building anyway.
21:47:13linuxstb_Why not display a "database progress" screen (similar to the debug screen I guess) when the user selects Database when the database initialisation is in progress?
21:47:28Slasheripixelma: you can "update now", it should always work if database has been initialized
21:47:39Lloreanlinuxstb_: I suggested that a few lines up. ;)
21:47:40SlasheriLinusN: ah, hmm
21:47:54linuxstb_Llorean: Great idea :)
21:48:05pixelmayeah - but then I have a bug for you...
21:48:06Slasherilinuxstb_: that would be a good solution..
21:48:12LloreanI think it'd get the job done, plus a user can leave it if they want to use their player.
21:48:30Slasherisomebody just needs to have some time to implement it
21:48:35LinusNthe status bar can be turned off though
21:48:40amiconnThis MK8007GAH spins up quite fast :)
21:48:51peturit does?
21:48:54Slasheripixelma: what is the problem with it?
21:48:56amiconnyes
21:49:07linuxstb_Maybe we need some kind of page for "officially approved features" - i.e. things we all want, but no-one has time to do...
21:49:09LloreanLinusN: My favorite is still just having a status screen from the Database root menu entry, while in-progress.
21:49:10peturamiconn: making a h180?
21:49:20amiconnI now have one :D
21:49:25Lloreanlinuxstb_: I think that is a VERY good idea.
21:49:36pixelmaSlasheri: I initialised database, then I removed the MMC, then hit "update now" - this process hangs
21:49:41peturI'm still waiting for my MK8007GAH to arrive
21:49:56Llorean"Developer Feature Requests" as it were.
21:49:59pixelmaSlasheri: "progress" stayed at -1
21:50:04pixelma%
21:50:06SlasheriLlorean: hmm, indeed! the current statusbar could show the percents!
21:50:11ep0chlinuxstb_: but if someone doesn't use database at all then having database in the root menu aint so good
21:50:25Slasheripixelma: is database initialized, so are you able to use it?
21:50:40amiconnThe MK8007GAH spins up almost half a second faster than the MK4004GAH
21:50:44ep0chlinuxstb_: or is there a way to configure the root menu via the settings?
21:50:47Lloreanep0ch: It may not be "so good" but is it actually bad?
21:50:52amiconn(at least my unit does)
21:50:55LinusNLlorean: perhaps, but i still think the user (and ultimately we who answer dumb questions in the forums/irc) would be better off with a simple, modal progress screen
21:51:05Slasheriep0ch: and if someone uses just the database, then having "files" in the root menu isn't good either? =)
21:51:12LloreanLinusN: How do you mean?
21:51:17ep0chall true
21:51:27amiconn(and my H1x0 is quiet again, yay) :)
21:51:30pixelmaSlasheri: yes - and also while committing at reboot the splash showed "committing 8/7" if I saw it right
21:51:34ep0chso i'll will make my own patch then :p
21:51:54Slasheribtw, i was thinking to implement "Delete" in the context menu for database mode also
21:52:09LinusNyou select "initialize", and the player will be "locked" with a progress bar until it finishes
21:52:19Slasherithen selecting some entry, for example a "worst tracks" query, would delete all those files
21:52:33ep0chi'd also still love to see a clear playlist option in the playlist menu :)
21:52:39LloreanLinusN: I'd rather it take them into the progress screen, but allow them the option to leave it if they want.
21:52:42Slasheripixelma: will be fixed
21:53:01LloreanLinusN: I'm all for showing them the screen by default, but since it's updating in the background as is, you might as well let them leave it, if they feel the need to.
21:53:15pixelmaSlasheri: which one? ;)
21:53:20SlasheriLinusN: in statusbar, it could just show a database icon above the disk icon and percents next to it
21:53:29Slasheripixelma: that 8/7
21:53:37amiconnLinusN: You wanted to be reminded of the current vs. backlight brightness measurements on H300...
21:53:40LinusNSlasheri: you mean the statusbar that the theme can hide?
21:53:47SlasheriLinusN: yes
21:53:54pixelmaalright... any ideas about the other problem?
21:53:59amiconnOh, and while at it, petur wanted something traced on H300....
21:54:00LinusNSlasheri: get my point?
21:54:03SlasheriLinusN: i was thinking a different statusbar, but the current one shohuld do it too
21:54:11Slasheriyep, i got that
21:54:29LinusNwhy is it so important to be able to use the player while initializing the database?
21:54:37petur:D
21:54:39*amiconn wouldn't like the database init to lock the whole unit
21:54:44Slasherisome users might prefer it
21:54:49LinusNit only gives us support trouble
21:54:57amiconnLinusN: Because it can take quite a while?
21:55:00LinusNso?
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21:55:01SlasheriLinusN: or there must be some other way to put the initialization process in background
21:55:06pixelmaLinusN: some prefer to look at the progress in the debug menu too
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21:55:23LinusNpixelma: "keep out" ?
21:55:25LloreanLinusN: I initialize it so that I can have some custom searches, but I almost never use it, and occasionally find myself needing to reinitialize it (managed to delete the .rockbox folder, or intentionally did so) . It'd be nice not to have to sit and wait when that happens.
21:55:26SlasheriLinusN: it could be default on fg but pressing some buttons would bring it bg
21:55:30amiconnOne can continue listening to music (file browser mode) meanwhile, or playing a game plugin etc
21:55:54LloreanLinusN: I just don't see why it's essential to force them to stay on the screen either, as compared to forcing them into the screen, but allowing them the option to leave it.
21:55:56LinusNamiconn: i know that, but is it *important*?
21:56:01pixelmaLinusN: maybe that's superfluous then, actually I don't mind
21:56:11amiconnLinusN: Yes. Did you ever try database on archos?
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21:56:36LinusNLlorean: maybe i'm misunderstanding things, but don't many users have problems with rebooting the player too early?
21:56:36Slasheriand user can turn off the player while database building is not completed
21:56:55amiconnI think it would work quite nicely when entering the database view while the database isn't ready yet would show the progress screen
21:57:14LloreanLinusN: The most common two problems I've seen is either 1) Assuming it's done instantly and not realizing it's in the background, or 2) Never realizing they needed to reboot at all.
21:57:31LinusNwhy is (2) important anyway?
21:57:40SlasheriLlorean: reboot is not always necessary
21:57:47LinusNis it a buffer_alloc() issue?
21:57:57SlasheriLlorean: that depends if dircache is active and how much space needs to be allocated
21:57:58LloreanSlasheri: It seems to fix things in the majority of cases where the database isn't ready after an init, though.
21:58:30SlasheriLinusN: yes
21:59:10amiconnThe database view could also ask to init and/or reboot as necessary
21:59:12LinusNi can go with having a progress screen when you select "Database"
21:59:15Slashericurrently database is only allowed to steal dircache or tagcache ram buffers
21:59:46amiconnI.e. when you eneter database and it's not initislised, it could ask "Initialise now?", and then show the progress screen
21:59:51LloreanLinusN: I do agree though that when they choose to initialize, the next screen they see should be the progress screen. They should have to consciously leave it if they want updating in the background.
21:59:58amiconn...still allowing to exit to the main menu and use other things
22:00
22:00:11LinusNok
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22:00:28amiconn...but when staying there, then init has finished it could also ask for the reboot
22:00:39Lloreanamiconn: That sounds good to me.
22:00:39LinusNyup
22:00:46pixelmayes... but some of the optimisations Slasheri said were possible would be nice too ;)
22:00:49amiconnRe-enerting should of course show current progress again
22:00:56amiconn*Re-entering
22:01:01LinusNof course
22:01:15Slasheripixelma: might be
22:01:23Slasheripixelma: but not easy to do
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22:01:45pixelmajust wishful thinking...
22:01:48 Quit Thundercloud (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
22:01:58Slasheripixelma: performance is already optimized quite high
22:02:13linuxstb_amiconn: That's exactly the solution I was thinking of as well.
22:02:50xuHi. I like the new root menu. But would it be possible to make the order of entries configurable? For example, I never use the database but use FM radio quite often (I have H120). So I would like to have FM right after Files.
22:03:16xuWe could have a file rb_root_menu in .rockbox and place text entries there.
22:03:44xuIf this file is not present, the menu will be created in its "default" order
22:03:50pixelmaSlasheri: as you can imagine I don't speak of performance here ;)
22:04:22xuI understand that this is just a part of more general concept of configurable menus but the root menu is so important that...
22:04:28LinusNxu: it is not trivial to do, but we have discussed it
22:04:55amiconnConfigurable menus are a big problem wrt localisation
22:05:22LinusNamiconn: yes
22:05:25amiconnSame problem exists in the database view
22:05:26*Llorean thinks his H120's disk is near death.
22:05:28xuI've looked at the code. The callbacks are passed as va_args. Couldn't the y be passed as an array? Then we could fill the array in the right order. And even hide some entries (e.g. database for me)
22:05:47*alienbiker99 needs a new H320 battery
22:06:14xuamiconn: I think just be able to configure the order of entries in the root menu would suffice
22:06:47LloreanIsn't the FM radio option already less pressed from 'start position' than it used to be, anyway?
22:06:58xuSince it's used a lot. And if it's as I (or you) like it, that would take away much pain
22:07:48 Part Margot_
22:07:57xuThe recent commit by Marcoen Hirschberg shows that there are different views on this
22:07:59Slasheripixelma: and you have a player with 32MB of ram (or more)? with size optimizations, you wouldn't gain anything. But for archoses those would be useful but needs big programming time efforts
22:08:02LloreanI'm just worried about the potential for havoc a customizable root menu would cause.
22:08:13 Quit lee-qid ("aufwiederbyebientotsayonara")
22:08:18LloreanPeople would be breaking their root menu by typos in the file all the time, I suspect.
22:08:30xuLlorean: yes, it's much better now. But while we're at it we could make it not just better but very much better
22:09:01 Join lee-qid [0] (n=liqid@p54966281.dip.t-dialin.net)
22:09:19Lloreanxu: The primary purpose of a DAP is playing stored audio files, which I think is why it makes sense for the first two entries to relate to that.
22:09:20XavierGrLlorean what's up with your H120?
22:09:27xuLlorean: if any error is detected in the file (unknown entries, typos, etc) the menu would take the default form
22:09:35LloreanCustomizability may be up in the air, but I don't think FM should move in the hard-coded version.
22:09:48amiconnSlasheri: Size optimisations are always useful imho. Just thinking about how to optimise often shows clever solutions which are both smaller and faster, at least that's my impression
22:09:54LloreanXavierGr: The disk is making a loud whining noise.
22:09:59pixelmaSlasheri: I think you would gain there too - and if it just makes further coding easier in the end (which I would expect to happen - as a non-coder though)
22:10:18amiconnYou're right that the benefit is larger for small-ram targets, but then the archoses are not the only ones
22:10:20XavierGrLlorean: Then your H120 is fine, the 20 GB disk is near its end! :P
22:10:39LloreanLlorean: That's why I said I think my H120's disk is near death. :-P
22:10:40xuLlorean: Amen to files. No amen to DB. A dap is for listening. According to this logic, FM could be the second entry.
22:10:40XavierGrif it dies change your Disk and there you have a new H120 :D
22:10:49XavierGroops
22:10:50*amiconn thinks about the iFP here, which has to squeeze more functions in less ram than the archos
22:10:53LloreanXavierGr: :)
22:11:01*XavierGr hides in shame
22:11:11linuxstb_amiconn: Although the ifp is flash, so buffering audio is less important.
22:11:16alienbiker99does the root menu settings have an option to change the order around?
22:11:19Slasheriamiconn: true, but i still think performance should be the primary goal
22:11:30amiconnlinuxstb: Yes, but all necessary stuff has to fit....
22:11:32Lloreanxu: How is DB not an access scheme for music files on the disk?
22:11:42xuLlorean: since there is already an entry for playing files (Files). And the second entry to do the same (DB) could be moved down. Just my view.
22:11:48Slasheriif performance would be secondary, it would be possible to shave huge amounts off the code and causing db to be very sluggish, almost unuseable
22:12:03Lloreanxu: Then move Files down, and leave DB there. Population-wise, our users prefer DB.
22:12:25LloreanI don't use it, but if you're going to favour one, you should do it based on population use.
22:12:38amiconn1MB for rockbox core + codec + plugin + buffer *is* tight....
22:12:41xuLlorean: it depends very much on the concrete user.
22:13:19Slasheriamiconn: but there is no need for buffer with flash devices (except some small pcm buffer)
22:13:21xuLlorean: and if wouldn't be much pain to implement why not please everyone?
22:13:35Lloreanxu: It's already been said that it would be both a pain to implement, and probably support.
22:13:55Slasheriamiconn: of course that would prevent using some features like crossfade
22:13:59amiconnSlasheri: There is a need for at least a small buffer if we don't want to change the whole playback concept. Of course this buffer can be quite small
22:14:09Slasheriyes
22:14:17Lloreanxu: Plus, I suspect that if you make the root menu configurable, it'll just inspire people to demand the other menus be so as well.
22:14:19amiconn...and the buffer is also used by some plugins
22:14:48amiconnThat's a reason why the buffer shouldn't be too small even on Ondio.
22:15:05amiconnBattery wise it doesn't make a measurable difference
22:15:09xuLlorean: yes, I see that. But IMHO the root menu is a special case. It's used much more often than the other menues
22:15:36*amiconn hopes to be forced to use the root menu as little as possible
22:15:48pixelmain my imagination optimised, smaller code (not shaving off something) would increase performance too - but maybe that's fiction
22:16:15xuLlorean: it's the main switching point and should therefore be made as to please everyone as much as possible. Every single one and not just the majority (what is that?)
22:16:53Lloreanxu: Well, you are free to submit a patch for customizing it.
22:17:11alienbiker99i agree with xu, it would become the most used menu, so why not have it customizable to be the most productive menu
22:17:18Lloreanxu: But I think it's really unnecessary complexity, and I think that it will encourage people to want the whole menu structure customizable, giving them the excuse to bring that issue back.
22:17:28xuamiconn: me too. But if I want to switch from file playback to FM...
22:18:05*amiconn didn't upgrade to a root menu enabled build yet
22:18:06Lloreanxu: You click on an FM Preset file...
22:18:11pixelmaspeaking of the root menu... now that I tried SVN... not being able to go left-to-main-menu feels a bit strange, too - because you can get back from every other screen (settings etc.) - only not from filebrowser or database view
22:18:30LinusNpixelma: i agree
22:18:41*Llorean cheers!
22:18:42xuLlorean: I could try. But I think the current way the menu is defined (macro + va_arg) does it really hard
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22:19:07Lloreanxu: Then make the other change you suggested. I thought you were the one who thought it wasn't too much trouble to go through...
22:19:24Lloreanxu: But as I said, if you want a shortcut to the FM Radio, you can put an FM Preset file anywhere in your filetree and click it.
22:19:26xuLlorean: my file browser shows only music files. As you said, a dap is there for listening. To music. Or to FM (in my case)
22:19:35Lloreanxu: Change it to "Supported" then.
22:19:47LinusNxu: file playback to fm: click Menu and then select FM from the main menu how hard can it be?
22:20:00LloreanLinusN: It's apparently one too many options from the top.
22:20:11LinusNincredibla
22:20:21xuLinusN: more clicks than possible / necessary
22:21:00preglowthere'll always be more clicks than necessary
22:21:09preglowif we were to code every possible shortcut, rockbox would be a mess
22:21:13xuPlease don't get me wrong. I like the new menu and consider it a great step forward in RB usability. But...
22:21:15LloreanThe "necessary" number of clicks can always be reduced to "1"
22:21:23LinusNi'm sure it's one or two clicks away from being optimal - but is it worth cluttering the code (and the support channel) only to save a few clicks?
22:21:32xupreglow: I don't want a new shortcut
22:21:46Lloreanxu: Try the FM Preset method, like I suggested then.
22:21:47preglowxu: well, being able to reorganise the menu is in essence a shortcut, if you ask me
22:21:49XavierGrxu: why don't you do what Llorean says and place an fmr file in your root folder?
22:22:13XavierGrfmr files were made for radio shortcut reasons too
22:22:26Lloreanxu: Then you can set up your player so that you need 0 button presses from power up to Filetree, and Two (Up, plus click) for FM Radio
22:22:30xuLlorean: then I'd always to browse to the root (or to the folder where fmr files are placed)
22:22:59XavierGrbut the file menu is already on top :P
22:23:13XavierGrbrowsing to the root is swift
22:23:15LloreanXavierGr: It's still more button presses than having FM Radio second in the file menu.
22:23:29xuXavierGr: but the FM is not the next to top
22:23:39pixelmaxu: but that became easier - when you use filebrowser, just hold left and you'll be back at the root directory
22:23:59LinusNpixelma: still more than 1 click
22:24:05XavierGrgeesh!
22:24:14xupixelma: yes, but why do I have to lose my file browsing context to switch to the radio?
22:24:14XavierGrthat is more finicky than I am
22:24:15LloreanLinusN: Would it be possible to have "Hold Left" take you to Root of filemenu, and then a left-press from there take you back to the Menu, so it lands between the two extremes?
22:24:32LinusNthat's how it worked a few days ago
22:24:33Lloreanxu: Then make a patch. As I said, you're welcome to submit it.
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22:24:53pixelmahehe... you can have it with one click when the playlist is empty...
22:24:57LloreanLinusN: I only tried the version of the patch, and now SVN, where you have to use Menu to leave the file browser.
22:25:18XavierGrLinus: pondlife will be happy that you changed your mind on left-on-root to root menu
22:25:20LinusNmaybe we should reintroduce the left-to-menu feature
22:25:21xuLlorean: yes, that's the way. Sorry if I've brought up a discussed issue. I have not read throughthe recent IRC logs.
22:25:41LinusNxu: that was discussed months ago
22:25:56Lloreanxu: Customizable menus seem as if they'd be much more hassle, both in code and support, than they're worth.
22:25:58pixelmaxu: ...set "FM Radio" as start screen and when you press "resume" it'll start the radio when there's nothing in the playlist
22:26:07LinusNmy general view of configurable ui is: avoid it
22:26:24LinusNpixelma