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#rockbox log for 2007-04-12

00:00:00peturall those 'I clicked rockbox but nothing happenend' questions...
00:00:10bluebrothercopying back isn't a good alternative if you update frequently ;-)
00:00:19LloreanBut hiding it from "supported" would be a worse alternative. :-P
00:00:20bluebrotherbut adjusting the build script would be an option.
00:00:38Rincewindit doesn't really matter, because I have to change fileview to flash rombox anyway
00:00:46LloreanSince firmwares are definitely supported files.
00:00:47jhMikeSprobably blocking my domain or something
00:00:57bluebrotherpetur: ... which is why I wanted to hide it in the "supported" view ;-)
00:01:05peturyou'll also need to change BOOTDIR define or auto-rolo after disconnect won't work ;)
00:01:17LloreanjhMikeS: Possibly. I'll try to encode a smaller file that shows the problem later.
00:01:23bluebrotheranyway, I just disagree with that decision. Not a real problem though.
00:02:09 Quit Siku ("g'night")
00:02:34 Quit FOAD ("Lost terminal")
00:03:38 Join johnnyoc3 [0] (
00:03:55johnnyoc3anyone have a 4g grayscale ipod?
00:04:21Rorigod I love rockbox on my nano so much#
00:04:38johnnyoc3dont we all :P
00:04:39 Part Llorean
00:04:51 Join midgey [0] (
00:04:55 Join FOAD [0] (
00:05:07johnnyoc3so no one has a 4g ipod?
00:05:08Roriif my nano dies I will probably get a Sansa unless you guys make 2G version that is :)
00:05:18bluebrotherjohnnyoc3: why don't you just ask your question?
00:05:33bluebrothersomeone else still might know the answer. If not you'll notice.
00:05:38johnnyoc3well i need the patched firmware partition from it
00:05:49bluebrotherpatched firmware partition?
00:06:03bluebrotherwhat kind of patched partition?
00:06:03Roribtw is there an estimated battery life on Nano Rockbox now? Curious to know. Never had to worry yet but always nice to know.
00:06:04johnnyoc3with the rockbox bootloader
00:06:13bluebrotherwhy don't you install it using ipodpatcher?
00:06:31johnnyoc3caus my ipods HD is slowly dying and it wont work
00:06:54bluebrotherbut if the hd is dying anyway, how does the partition itself help?
00:06:56johnnyoc3i explained it here:
00:07:20 Join amiconn_ [0] (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn)
00:07:24johnnyoc3i can dd files to it but i cant seem to extract valid ones from it
00:07:25roolkuRincewind: i have re-patched the (removed) "browse firmwares" for that purpose: roloing and flashing are fairly quick this way
00:07:27WolfBloodHow do I install Rockboy?
00:07:28 Quit amiconn (Nick collision from services.)
00:07:28 Nick amiconn_ is now known as amiconn (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn)
00:07:37johnnyoc3rockboy is installed
00:07:47johnnyoc3browse to trhe rom in file mode and click it
00:07:50WolfBloodSo where do you put the .gb?
00:07:54Rincewindroolku: that sounds interesting
00:08:00johnnyoc3anywhere on the fat32 partition
00:08:09amiconnRori: 2G is ambiguous. It could mean a rather old ipod model...
00:08:09WolfBloodWhat's that lol?
00:08:27johnnyoc3the one you see mwhen u plug in ur ipod to thwe comp
00:08:39Rincewindroolku: it is not in svn, right?
00:08:39WolfBloode250 You mean. :P
00:08:45bluebrotherjohnnyoc3: you can simply dd the ipod update image to the partition marked as empty on the ipod
00:08:46 Quit My_Sic (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:08:52 Quit davina ("byeeeeee!")
00:08:57bluebrotherI used that to make a CF card an ipod ;-)
00:08:58johnnyoc3i did
00:09:17johnnyoc3but i cant extract it to the comp to patch
00:09:29johnnyoc3it functions fine on the actual device
00:09:37peturWolfBlood: put the rom file where you like it
00:09:39roolkuRincewind: it used to be but was taken out for some reason
00:09:53bluebrotherhmm. Seems I don't get the point in your problem
00:09:54 Join MO-Pantsuu [0] (
00:10:05johnnyoc3read the post i made
00:10:06bluebrothermight be related to the fact that it's late here :o
00:10:12 Quit jgarvey ("Leaving")
00:10:13bluebrotherI read that.
00:10:14johnnyoc3if your curious
00:10:22MO-Pantsuugot disco'd. was talking about an inline bluetooth thingie
00:10:32johnnyoc3well i can only use the ipod when it is freshly restored
00:10:32MO-Pantsuuand battery life. diff nick
00:10:34 Quit DarkRedFlame ()
00:10:51MO-Pantsuudid not get an answer on battery life
00:11:01johnnyoc3i cant put music on it regularly through itunes cuas it want to restore it again
00:11:11bluebrothermaybe running a low-level format helps
00:11:19johnnyoc3so i can only put music on it through linux directly to the root
00:11:43 Quit lee-qid_ (Client Quit)
00:11:44johnnyoc3i've tried every format method i know
00:11:53bluebrotherdirectly to the root meaning folders won't work?
00:11:57Rincewindroolku: can you send it again please? I can't remember and find where I saved it *embarassed*
00:11:58johnnyoc3they do
00:12:12johnnyoc3but itunes keeps thinking it needs to be restored
00:12:17johnnyoc3even thoguh it works
00:12:31johnnyoc3and 3rd party managers dont see it either
00:12:48bluebrotherhmm. Maybe moving the partition boundaries of the hidden partition to some sector later helps?
00:12:55johnnyoc3ipodpatcher cant extract the firmware to patch but i can dd patchers firmware with linux
00:13:32johnnyoc3so if i had a rockbox patcher fw i could use rockbox and put music via linux
00:13:33roolkuRincewind: got it? :)
00:13:41johnnyoc3see my dilema?
00:13:48bluebrotherI ran ipodpatcher successfully on a CF card −− if you have a spare disk lying around you can create that yourself easily
00:13:58 Quit inversions (No route to host)
00:14:02johnnyoc3as of now i just got a stylish 20gb hd
00:14:15johnnyoc3i dont have any CF
00:14:21johnnyoc3sd but i dount that works
00:14:41bluebrotherjust dd the mbr (from the download page) to that disk, dd the ipod update to the 1st partition on that device and run ipodpatcher on it
00:14:57bluebrothersd works the same way as cf on linux: it's a simple scsi device.
00:15:13johnnyoc3only on linux?
00:15:15bluebrotheryou might need to specify the device to ipodpatcher
00:15:22 Quit PaulJam (".")
00:15:31johnnyoc3i tried that for the pod
00:15:33bluebrotherI don't know the details on windows. Did it on linux.
00:15:46johnnyoc3i will try the sd card method later tonight
00:15:58johnnyoc3i just thought someone had a 4g ipod here
00:16:03johnnyoc3i guess not
00:16:07bluebrotherme doesn't, sorry.
00:16:18johnnyoc3thats ok
00:16:27johnnyoc3you may have given me hope!
00:16:31bluebrotherjust remember that this will destroy all data on the memory card. But I guess you already are aware of that ;-)
00:16:52johnnyoc3if not would it be possible to buy a cf card and us it instead of the HD?
00:16:55johnnyoc3yeah i know
00:16:58bluebrotherit should work with any drive that is large enough
00:17:26bluebrotherthere was some information on the internet about replacing the hard disk with a CF card.
00:17:33johnnyoc3but will the pins work out right?
00:17:43 Join safetydan [0] (i=cbca159f@rockbox/developer/safetydan)
00:17:46johnnyoc3dont want to saulder
00:17:49bluebrotherIt's really easy on the mini as the connectors are the same. AFAIK this doesn't apply to the other ipods
00:17:52johnnyoc3or spell :P
00:18:22bluebrothernot sure if it's linked, but the MiniCF wiki page might be interesting
00:19:19johnnyoc3i will look into it
00:19:54johnnyoc3lol google cached version loads faster
00:20:58johnnyoc3 doesnt seem to load
00:21:16peturrockbox website seems down?
00:21:31johnnyoc3i guess was quite slow a short while ago. At least for me ...
00:22:05johnnyoc3well its not loading at all
00:22:10johnnyoc3i might ping it
00:22:15peturit's gone now... replies to pings but nothing more
00:22:35 Quit practisevoodoo (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
00:22:37peturah, back again
00:22:44 Join amar [0] (
00:22:56 Part amar
00:23:03peturvery slow though
00:23:14bluebrotherjohnnyoc3: good luck −− I'm out for some sleep
00:23:25 Quit bluebrother ("sleep!")
00:23:41 Quit parasite (Nick collision from services.)
00:23:44 Join parasite [0] (
00:23:54 Join amar [0] (
00:24:23 Quit parasite (Nick collision from services.)
00:24:25 Quit Rori (No route to host)
00:25:00amarforgive me for being a complete noob, but what is coldstart detection? (I.E what is coldstart)
00:25:30 Quit H10_007quick ("ChatZilla [Firefox]")
00:25:36 Join midkay [0] (n=midkay@rockbox/developer/midkay)
00:25:45amarAhh nice & simple. Thank you very much petur.
00:25:48amarBye all.
00:25:52 Part amar
00:25:58MO-Pantsuuwow! RB beats Applie firmware battery life by quite a bit!
00:26:01 Join Febs [0] (
00:26:13 Quit atsea- (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:26:46MO-Pantsuu for anyone interested
00:27:26johnnyoc3i get better performace for apple just b/c i can/dont play games on it :P
00:27:51MO-Pantsuuit's for music not games!
00:28:07johnnyoc3but physics gets so boring
00:28:44 Join parasite_ [0] (
00:29:06markunMO-Pantsuu: how much more are you getting with rockbox?
00:29:07MO-Pantsuuis it sad that I still use the Apple Nano theme?
00:29:33MO-Pantsuumarkun no idea I just looked at that page and see others getting better results that Apple fw
00:29:50MO-PantsuuI want a Vista theme now
00:30:10markunthen make one now
00:30:20johnnyoc3those results are under ideeal conditions not every day use
00:30:32 Join BHSPitLappy [0] (
00:30:57 Quit jmspeex (Operation timed out)
00:31:12markunMO-Pantsuu: on that page the Apple runtime is about 2x that of rockbox..
00:31:57MO-Pantsuuam I reading it wrong?
00:32:02WolfBloodWhere can I download .gba's?
00:32:28 Join atsea- [0] (i=ariel@gateway/tor/x-1e769c60b091cb18)
00:32:36MO-Pantsuuapple runtime is not listed
00:32:44markunWolfBlood: you can probably find some on the internet
00:32:56markunWolfBlood: you know that rockboy doesn't play gba roms, right?
00:33:11MO-Pantsuuso apple gets more battery life?
00:33:23markunMO-Pantsuu: then what is "Apple Runtime" ?
00:33:26MO-PantsuuZOMG a Haruhi theme!
00:33:28WolfBloodMarkun: I thought it said they did? So what do they play?
00:33:40MO-Pantsuuno apple runtimes listed
00:33:46MO-Pantsuuso how can we tell?
00:33:46markunWolfBlood: just gameboy and gameboy colour
00:33:58markunMO-Pantsuu: I see several Apple runtimes listed
00:34:06WolfBloodMarkun: I was looking on google, don't see any downloads. :(
00:34:08markunall more than 21 hours
00:34:16 Join jmspeex [0] (
00:34:22markunhi jmspeex
00:34:46johnnyoc3just use p2p wolf
00:34:57markunjmspeex: just our of curiosity, do you use rockbox yourself?
00:35:12MO-Pantsuuonly on 5G
00:35:19MO-PantsuuNo apple runtimes for nano
00:35:37MO-Pantsuumight have to remedy that myself :P
00:35:52markunMO-Pantsuu: well, don't expect rockbox to perform better on the ipod nano either
00:35:55MO-Pantsuupeople too lazy to stopwatch it
00:36:25MO-Pantsuuwell I can live with shorter battery life for better functionality
00:36:40MO-Pantsuunot like I have it on all day
00:36:55markunbut longer battery life is nice too
00:37:04WolfBloodWhat is p2p?
00:37:23markunWolfBlood: it stands for peer-to-peer
00:37:30WolfBloodWhat is it?
00:37:45MO-Pantsuuwell maybe RB devs could focus on that a bit perhaps? :)
00:37:45WolfBloodI want a Zelda .gbc. :(
00:38:01MO-PantsuuI can do with better battery than more features (Don't like the new menus btw)
00:38:13MO-Pantsuupreferred it going directly to files
00:38:21MO-Pantsuuno I have to hit files all the time
00:38:31MO-Pantsuurollback pl0x
00:38:40markunMO-Pantsuu: we're all focussing on it. If we knew how to improve battery time we would have done so
00:39:07MO-Pantsuubut get rid of files and go back to file by default or is there an option to do that?
00:39:27MO-PantsuuGoing straight to the menu on boot is sucking
00:39:43MO-Pantsuuand resume on startup is missing
00:39:49MO-Pantsuuwhat happened to that?
00:40:06 Join BigMac [0] (
00:40:06markunyou can now select a startup screen somewhere
00:40:18MO-PantsuuI want it to go straight to the files
00:40:21MO-Pantsuunot the menu
00:40:35MO-Pantsuuand resume playback on startup is missing?
00:40:36markunyes, you've told me that already
00:40:48markunno, it's also in the start screen selection
00:40:53MO-Pantsuuoh ok
00:40:53johnnyoc3jsut change it in ur settings
00:40:54 Quit midgey ()
00:41:03pixelmasettings -> general settings -> start screen -> file browser (or resume playback as replacement of "resume on startup")
00:41:38pixelmaI think I missed a submenu called "system" in this chain
00:41:40MO-PantsuuI get shirty when things change and I have to go hunting for them heh
00:42:02markunMO-Pantsuu: then I don't think rockbox is for you. Expect things to keep changing.
00:42:11MO-Pantsuudoes anyone esle get the battery icon on disconnect?
00:42:18MO-PantsuuI am disconnecting properly
00:42:40MO-Pantsuuthen it won't turn on unless I reset
00:43:31johnnyoc3disconnect from what?
00:44:12johnnyoc3like in disk mode or just charging
00:44:36johnnyoc3or do you meand the reg apple fw
00:44:40 Join amar [0] (
00:44:55MO-Pantsuuin dick mode and I diconnect hardware properly then disconnect the cable
00:44:57johnnyoc3mo what ipod u got?
00:44:57WolfBloodJohnny: How can I get roms from p2P?
00:45:32johnnyoc3search for a specific rom name using a p2p program
00:45:41WolfBloodLike Bittorrent?
00:45:54johnnyoc3p2p is beter but that works
00:46:01WolfBloodWell I'm looking for a Zelda.gbc but have no clue what it would be called.
00:46:12johnnyoc3@mo does it show a check mark and say ok to d/c
00:46:20amarDoes anyone know if anyone is developing seeking for the mpegplayer (i.e. fast forward & rewind) I apologise in advance if this has been asked before..
00:46:38johnnyoc3then you must use menu+center to reboot
00:46:39markunWolfBlood, johnnyoc3: maybe you can chat in private? I don't think #rockbox is the right place to discuss downloading gameboy roms.
00:46:43johnnyoc3thats how it is
00:46:44MO-Pantsuuthen I disconnect the USB cable and it goes to a battery icon for a little bit then blank and won't start
00:46:52johnnyoc3youer right mark
00:46:53MO-PantsuuI know
00:46:53markunamar: jhMikeS is
00:47:00johnnyoc3its against the rules iforgot
00:47:10 Join inversions [0] (
00:47:26amarmarkun: Thanks mate
00:47:32markunI just mention it before the logs are full of links to places with illegal software :)
00:47:34MO-Pantsuuif I choose resume on startup...
00:47:39*petur is confused where the extra warning for ipod color sim comes from
00:47:40MO-Pantsuuit plays the last track played
00:47:44MO-Pantsuubut if I stop the track
00:47:45markunMO-Pantsuu: yes
00:47:50MO-Pantsuuit goes back to the menu and not files!
00:48:06MO-PantsuuI want it to always go back to files
00:48:12johnnyoc3jsut get a 5g :P
00:48:17markunMO-Pantsuu: you can always use an older buil of rockbox
00:48:20MO-Pantsuunever to show menu unless I ask for it
00:48:25markunthe new menu is here to stay
00:48:40MO-PantsuuI am gonna start a poll on the forums then
00:48:41 Join midgey [0] (
00:48:46johnnyoc3i personally like it better
00:49:01johnnyoc3i wouldnt start a poll
00:49:11johnnyoc3if the devs changed it they changed it for a reason
00:49:22johnnyoc3it wont go back
00:49:24 Join DJKav [0] (n=chatzill@
00:49:29 Quit jhulst (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:49:36johnnyoc3anyone have a 4g thats illing to help me
00:50:07markunjohnnyoc3: I don't have one, but what's the problem?
00:50:13johnnyoc3i need a bootpartition bin file
00:50:23johnnyoc3that has rolo or ipl2.4
00:51:05WolfBloodAnyone know a good Torrent Search Engine without Porn Adds?
00:51:21johnnyoc3the best one
00:52:00pixelmaMO-Pantsuu: when playback is stopped you are dropped back to the screen you entered the WPS from - i.e. when starting playback by selecting a track in the filebrowser (and don't enter the menu between) you will get back there
00:52:05 Join Llorean [0] (n=Llorean@rockbox/administrator/Llorean)
00:52:27 Quit jmspeex (Connection timed out)
00:52:35MO-PantsuuI am dropped back to the menu
00:52:38 Join robin0800 [0] (
00:52:45MO-Pantsuuand have to select Files everytime
00:53:02MO-Pantsuuanother unnecessary click
00:53:03markunMO-Pantsuu: sounds like a bug then
00:53:22amarI find quite does have ads that are labelled as "Sexy videos" but they're not necessarily pornographic, and only show every now & then..
00:53:35DJKavI need help converting a Mac formatted 1st gen nano to FAT32
00:53:43pixelmaMO-Pantsuu: what did you set as start screen?
00:53:57MO-Pantsuuresume playback
00:54:00DJKavWithout just pluugin into a PC.
00:54:03MO-Pantsuuhold on I think I know why
00:54:21WolfBloodAnyone have a login to Demonoid?
00:54:35MO-PantsuuI think I must have held the play button too long and it went back twice. Hmm. Sorry. I still don't like files on menu though.
00:55:19MO-Pantsuulol poll was locked already
00:55:21 Quit roolku ()
00:55:22markunMO-Pantsuu: just go back to and old buil and you will be much happier
00:55:24DJKavI know I tried all that. Idk what I did wrong thou.
00:55:26MO-Pantsuuah well got to say my peice ;)
00:55:40LloreanMO-Pantsuu: The poll was locked because you broke the forum rules
00:55:47LloreanIt absolutely does NOT belong in the Ipod Installation section
00:55:47 Quit funky ("leaving")
00:56:05LloreanIt has NOTHING to do with the installation process.
00:56:08MO-Pantsuuyeah ok whatever
00:56:10johnnyoc3try this
00:56:23LloreanMO-Pantsuu: Did you even LOOK at the rules?
00:56:24MO-PantsuuI tried to delete it but it's locked now
00:56:36LloreanIt's gone now, then
00:56:41LloreanFeel free to post it in the _right_ place.
00:56:55DJKavK thanks johnnyoc3
00:57:18 Join Nico_P [0] (
00:57:35MO-PantsuuI'm jusy a bit gruffy right now. Been a bad week. Had an op last thursday and it's making me gripe a lot :)
00:58:09johnnyoc3llorean u have a 4g?
00:58:11MO-Pantsuunothing against you guys but little things set me off right now ;)
00:58:24johnnyoc3are you a woman mo?
00:58:26LloreanMO-Pantsuu: Well, little things set me off quite often, the most important one being ignoring the posting guidelines. :-P
00:58:33MO-Pantsuunah I just act like one lol
00:58:50MO-Pantsuusexist remarks now oops
00:58:59johnnyoc3didnt try to offend any women here :P
00:59:10MO-Pantsuuyeah yeah heh
00:59:20johnnyoc3the one or 2 that *might* be here
00:59:24Lloreanjohnnyoc3: Why do you need someone with a 4G?
00:59:31MO-PantsuuI think I spent too much time on bad message boards. 4chan for instance.
00:59:38MO-PantsuuGot bad net habits
00:59:49johnnyoc3cause i need a bottpartition with rolo patched in
00:59:57johnnyoc3and i cant do it
01:00:03johnnyoc3long story
01:00:03LloreanRolo isn't something you patch into a boot partition...
01:00:18MO-Pantsuuanyone esle using a invisble skin or best skin ever solution on their ipods?
01:00:25LloreanRoLo is the Rockbox loader, it loads other firmwares from within Rockbox.
01:00:36johnnyoc3i meant the bootloader
01:00:38johnnyoc3my bad
01:00:47LloreanWhy can't iPodPatcher write it?
01:00:50*petur decides to ignore the odd build warning and head off to bed
01:00:54 Quit petur ("Zzzzzz")
01:01:00LloreanIf you can't write it with iPodPatcher, you wouldn't be able to DD over a already patched one either
01:01:05LloreanThey both do the exact same thing.
01:01:43johnnyoc3i can dd a patched one but when ipod patcher extracts the partition it doesnt work
01:01:57MO-Pantsuuanyhow thanks for the support guys despite my childish griping. I shall leave you alone until next time :)
01:02:04LloreaniPodPatcher doesn't extract anything
01:02:12LloreanIt just writes the bootloader, and shifts the main image...
01:02:14MO-Pantsuuhappy rockboxing!
01:02:23 Quit MO-Pantsuu ()
01:02:50LloreanDoes the current iPodPatcher give you an error message?
01:02:52johnnyoc3my hd is dying so the only way for me to put files on it is through linux directly to the disk not through any ipod mangers
01:03:02johnnyoc3ipodpatcher doesnt recognixe the ipod
01:03:27markunamiconn: what's wrong this time :)
01:03:30amiconnThe spurious DT_TEXTREL warning again..
01:03:38johnnyoc3the fw functions fine on the ipod itself but the computer thinks its correupted
01:04:04johnnyoc3so i need a patched boot partition from some1 to dd to the ipod
01:04:23 Join darkless [0] (
01:04:43 Quit ender` (" Programming is like sex becuse: 11. But some people will never realize how bad they are, and you’re wasting your time trying)
01:04:48Lloreanjohnnyoc3: If your iPod is in bad enough condition that none of the restorations work, it's unlikely that that'll work, at least for any longer than a few weeks
01:05:09 Join dandin1 [0] (
01:05:11 Quit ze (Remote closed the connection)
01:05:14 Join ze [0] (
01:05:18Lloreanjohnnyoc3: Have you tried using and restoring the MBR as if you were converting to FAT32?
01:05:19johnnyoc3well it was like that around 4mo ago but i put rockbox on there and it worked fine
01:05:39johnnyoc3i tryed every format method and partitioning method known to man
01:05:59johnnyoc3then my bro pluged it in and decieded it needed to be resotred
01:05:59LloreanOh really? Did you hold a magnet to it to destroy all the data on the disk and then reformat from an Amiga?
01:06:03LloreanPlease don't say "every method"
01:06:06johnnyoc3so it got screwed up again
01:06:14johnnyoc3not every but alot
01:06:20LloreanDid you or did you not do exactly the steps on that page.
01:06:51LloreanThen why didn't you mention it in your forum post?
01:06:54johnnyoc3the ipod will work fine but when connected to a comp its not recognized as a ipod
01:07:19johnnyoc3i i did
01:07:22LloreanNo, you didn't
01:07:36johnnyoc3"i tried restoring it these ways too:
01:07:44LloreanYes, neither of those is the link I gave.
01:08:06johnnyoc3have you read this page reciently ?
01:08:34johnnyoc31) Download the MBR for your ipod from the IpodConversionToFAT32 page, and dd it to the ipod (e.g. dd if=mbr-xxxx.bin of=/dev/sdx), then unplug and reattach;
01:08:46 Join Forte [0] (
01:08:47LloreanYou don't need to copy the whole page.
01:08:50Forterockbox rocks
01:08:51LloreanBut fine.
01:08:55 Quit amar ()
01:09:00***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:09:02johnnyoc3just saying
01:09:14johnnyoc3believe me i tryed everything
01:09:16LloreanThen why can't you simply use the ipod_fw tool to merge the firmware before DDing?
01:09:20johnnyoc3this is the only solution
01:09:22LloreanWhy on earth do you need someone to merge it for you?
01:09:35johnnyoc3i cant extract a valid fw file
01:10:13johnnyoc3somewhere between conecting the ipod and extracting the bin file the ipod messes it up
01:10:24LloreanYou know how to get a valid fw file
01:10:34LloreanThe manual restore page even has you write a valid firmware file TO the iPod
01:10:58LloreanSo clearly it's what you would be extracting if extracting works.
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01:11:33LloreanSince you're trying to read the exact same data that you're writing to in the ManualRestore page.
01:11:43johnnyoc3the ipsw file is the 1 ur talking about?
01:12:02LloreanThe one you dd to /dev/sdx1
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01:12:13LloreanYou ARE trying to read from /dev/sdx1 when you try to "extract" right?
01:12:17johnnyoc3but can i jsut rename it to a .bin file?
01:12:33LloreanYou have to extract the ipsw...
01:12:38johnnyoc3after i extract the fw from the archive
01:12:50Forteso whats new with rockbox
01:12:52Forteany new games
01:12:56johnnyoc3i though it was not a .bin
01:13:11LloreanIt's the transient theory of mathematics. If firmware.bin = /dev/sdx1 and /dev/sdx1 = the file extracted from the ipsw, then firmware.bin = the file extracted from the ipsw.
01:13:28LloreanSo long as no step changes the contents of that.
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01:13:55LloreanForte: There's a changelog on the front of the site, but the answer to that is almost always going to be "no", as games are not a major focus.
01:14:22johnnyoc3well after you dd the ipsw file the ipod needs to be pluged into the wall and does a little scroll bar thing that is different from when you jsut apply a .bin
01:15:07LloreanNo, that just means the contents of the ipsw are marked as "new data" rather than having been extracted and so the ipod thinks they're old data.
01:15:28LloreanThere's a bit that gets changed the first time you boot.
01:15:28Forteso whats up
01:15:35johnnyoc3i see
01:15:47LloreanIf you wrote the ipsw over, then extracted it immediately without ever unplugging the iPod, then wrote that .bin file back, you'd get the same thing
01:16:16johnnyoc3when it gives you the wall plug image you cant boot int disk mode
01:16:32johnnyoc3at least not when i've tryed
01:16:53Llorean"without ever unplugging the ipod"...
01:17:12johnnyoc3well after the ipsw is written the ipod auto reboots
01:17:47LloreanWith DD, even if you don't unplug the cable, while in disk mode?
01:17:57johnnyoc3im not sutre about that
01:18:01johnnyoc3in windows it does though
01:18:10johnnyoc3but its a moot point
01:18:17LloreanIn windows you're not using DD...
01:18:19johnnyoc3i will try with the .bin renaming
01:18:24LloreanI thought you said you tried the DD method...\
01:18:57johnnyoc3i did but i also used apple restore with the .ipsw
01:19:16johnnyoc3b/c i didnt think the extracted file was a .bin cause it had no file name
01:19:44LloreanSo you didn't *just* to the manual restore method? I'm confused.
01:20:06johnnyoc3i did many methods
01:20:16johnnyoc3and they are all becoming one big blur :P
01:20:21Fortelol he said moot
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01:20:42johnnyoc3that was said ages ago
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01:21:11Forteformatting my mini
01:21:25johnnyoc3put a CF card in it :P
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01:32:20johnnyoc3well im off to boot into linux and try it out
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01:34:32DyneIs there a way to access Pitch Control on the e200?
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01:51:26Neovanglistwindow 12
01:51:30Neovanglistoops :
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01:57:04Forteis there a build in progress
01:57:12Fortecause im looking for the mini version
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02:02:31kkurbjundoes anyone have any objections to the gigabeat bootloader cleanup:
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02:02:39Fortewhats some good music
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02:09:15linuxstbkkurbjun: There has been talk about changing the header in the rockbox files to include more information (such as a version and min/max compatible bootloader versions). My only comment on your patch is that it may be worth waiting for that work to be done before forcing all gigabeat users to upgrade.
02:12:34kkurbjunlinuxstb do you know where that work is? Is it just talk right now? Currently the gigabeats are still doing an unnecessary reset on the ata interface with the existing bootloader.. I don't know if it's bad for the drive, it's not a hard click like cutting the power, but it's definitely noticeable.
02:13:26kkurbjunI guess we could just recompile the existing bootloader with the commit I made on the ata and usb interface
02:13:59kkurbjunwas that information planned to be added in the scrambling tool?
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02:17:00linuxstbIt's only been talked about, I don't think anyone is working on it. So maybe it will never happen...
02:17:46linuxstbMaybe it's not important, in which case just go ahead and commit...
02:20:33kkurbjunThanks for the heads up, I am going to wait till tomorrow just to give anyone else that may be sleeping/not around time to voice any other concerns.
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03:31:15homieloweI currently have a 21 1/2 x 10 rockbox logo printed onto iron transferable paper, what colour t-shirt / other article of clothing should I put on, white, black, navy blue etc
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03:31:56homielowein centimetres I mean, not those confounded inches
03:32:08homielowesounds good
03:33:39DJKavNow I need help.
03:35:07DJKavAlright good talk. Maybe next time.
03:36:35jhulst DJKav: what is your problem?
03:36:54homieloweDJKav: How are you supposed to be helped If we don't know the nature of your problem or even if it's rockbox related
03:37:08DJKavIt is.
03:37:49DJKavMy 1st gen nano... I can't get rockbox onto it and I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong.
03:38:14homieloweAre you using ipodpatcher or rbutil?
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03:39:53DJKavI'm on a Mac. So Idk if I'm doing something wrong when converting it to FAT32 or somewhere after that.
03:41:19homieloweDJKav: Sorry, I don't own a Mac, maybe someone w/ Mac can help you.
03:41:59DJKavOk thanks anyway.
03:43:09DJKavSo.... Does anyone have a Mac?
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03:54:33Shoozhey i dont know if your aware, but the latest MPEG update actually made the problems on my sansa worse.
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03:55:44craig__could someone tell me the advantages of rockbox on Toshiba Gigabeat MEG-F40S
03:57:56craig__what i mean is, is it worth it for the gigabeat model?
03:59:13Shoozseems that it would be, or it wouldn't have been ported?
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04:00:21colezy9shooz, yeah I'm new to rockbox and don't see much for advantages on the website, but mabe there is other things that make it worth it such as stability
04:00:36colezy9does anyone here have a gigabeat and like it with rockbox
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04:09:28LloreanAnyone else with a Gigabeat around?
04:11:45Lloreankkurbjun: Did your recent change actually affect what happens on USB unplug?
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04:15:48johnnyoc3llorean the renaming thing worked
04:15:58johnnyoc3thanks for the tip ;P
04:17:06Lloreanjohnnyoc3: I may be a bit irritating, but I do tend to solve problems in the end. ;)
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04:20:59Lloreankkurbjun: Anyway, since you don't seem to be around: Right now, if my backlight goes off while USB is connected, it doesn't come back on after I unplug it. If I tap a key to bring it on, right before unplugging, then the backlight is fine. This is new behaviour introduced possibly by your patch (unless my Gigabeat has gone crazy)
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04:59:51Fortewhats some good music
05:05:36safetydanForte, that's off topic for this channel.
05:06:09aliaskWhat's the key in the sim to simulate usb connect?
05:07:16aliaskNeever mind.
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05:17:50goffai know i shouldn't make a plug.. but can't resist
05:18:00goffathat's a good deal
05:18:27goffaif i didn't have 2 f60's i'd probably get one myself
05:20:03LloreanYeah, I got one under the assumption that in my infinite clumsiness I'll damage this one eventually. Also, I wouldn't mind another 40gb of storage, anyway.
05:21:04goffayeah... i'm thinking of ebaying my x5 or my h140
05:21:22goffathey are collecting dust now that i have my gigabeats
05:21:32LloreanActually, in all honesty, I'm planning to gift my current one (which has a very, very tiny scratch on the screen, but I'm actually diagnosed OCD) to my mother, and using the new one.
05:21:34goffai really only use the 1 gigabeat.. but like to have the spare
05:21:42LloreanShe expressed interest in it, she likes the Rockbox interface a lot better than her iPod's.
05:22:12kkurbjunLlorean, are you using the bootloader patch with the lcd problem?
05:22:29Lloreankkurbjun: Bootloader patch?
05:22:34goffahad to laugh.. a guy saw my gigabeat and said "wow, that's an old ipod"
05:22:36LloreanI'm using the official bootloader.
05:22:45LloreanEverything's "official", no patches anywhere.
05:22:49kkurbjunahh, ok, so it came up after my last commit?
05:23:05LloreanIt came up in the last day or so, and your commit seems most likely
05:23:06goffait caught me so off guard i couldn't even comment
05:23:29kkurbjunI'll check it out and see if I can reproduce it with my change reverted
05:24:02Lloreankkurbjun: You can reproduce the bug with a current build?
05:24:24LloreanMy Gigabeat's acting slightly weird in another way too (the button LEDs are coming on immediately after boot, and going off with the first backlight fade)
05:25:51kkurbjunthanks for the heads up. I can definitely reproduce it on mine as well by the way. I have alot of other code in my tree. I saw that as well today so it's not just my or your player
05:26:04LloreanOkay, good to know mine isn't about to explode. :)
05:26:09kkurbjun: )
05:26:16goffayeah.. i haven't put a new rockbox on in a couple of weeks
05:26:29goffabeen on the road a lot
05:26:45goffasitting in a hotel as we speak
05:28:04Lloreangoffa: mpegplayer has improved a lot, but as you may have guessed from my talking, there's a few new 'quirks' as of today (nothing serious)\
05:29:18goffai don't really use mpegplayer.. but am glad to see it progressing
05:29:47LloreanI wasn't planning to.
05:29:48goffamy hope is that the insert patch gets commited so i don't have to keep patching
05:30:11goffasomething about 2 inch video doesn't impress me that much
05:30:55kahnno but making nanos run mpg is kinda cool
05:31:27goffakinda like gameboy
05:31:41goffaglad i have the option.. but don't plan on utilizing it
05:32:00LloreanIt looks better than I expected, is all
05:33:12goffastill getting used to the new root menu
05:33:21goffasince that's going to be a fact of life from now on
05:34:07goffaadmittedly it has gotten rid of the left to wps "need"
05:34:16goffasince i can hit right to get to wps
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05:35:03goffaand i guess i use the gigabeat most of the time.. so the "rotating button" issue isn't something i contend with as much
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05:35:17Llorean"rotating button"?
05:36:22goffawell when i'd grab my gigabeat i'd hit the top button to get into file browser
05:36:33goffaon the h140 it'd be the middle button
05:36:40LloreanAh, yes
05:36:44goffaso out of habbit i'd hit the wrong button
05:36:48goffaand it'd make me angry
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05:37:17goffabut since i don't use the h140 that much i don't notice
05:37:38goffawould be an issue if i didn't have the 2 gigabeats
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05:57:24JdGordoni cant think of a clean way to make the viewer icons customizable...
05:57:30*JdGordon has a very one track mind at times...
05:57:45LloreanAren't the viewer icons customizable by viewers.config?
05:58:34JdGordonyeah, but we are moving to fully loadable icons, so the idea is to let the user load a bmp file with icons for each plugin
05:58:50LloreanAs part of the build, or as a theme step?
05:59:13LloreanThen let them provide a custom viewers.config?
05:59:14JdGordonto go with fs 7013
05:59:49JdGordonwell, the big problem is how to handle the image they need to load...
06:00:40LloreanWhy not just have a viewers.bmp for themes.
06:00:55LloreanIt contains the bitmaps for viewers.config in sequential order, so it has to have an appropriate matching viewers.config
06:01:04LloreanIf viewers.config is longer, use the hex-code ones in it for any missing ones.
06:01:53LloreanThat way you never have to fear a theme overwriting your customized viewers.config, and as long as you keep the SVN order and add to the end, your new ones won't conflict with your theme.
06:02:57JdGordon... I tihnk I know how to handle it from a users point-of-view... its the code part thats hard :p
06:03:05LloreanThat way you don't have to do any real matching, you just treat the viewers.config as entries 0-N, and match bitmaps 0-N from viewers.bmp with them, right?
06:03:44LloreanWhat's the difficulty with the code? You don't have to do any "real" matching, just assume they're in the same order in viewers.bmp as in viewers.config and let the users make errors if they must.
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06:03:50JdGordonI'm planning to let the user give an index in viewers.config so more than 1 plugin can use the same icon
06:04:25LloreanI don't like that.
06:04:34LloreanI don't like the idea of viewers.config ever being touched by themes.
06:05:22LloreanIt's a functional file, and I shouldn't have to worry about it unless I manually modify it.
06:05:39JdGordonit would load viewer_icons.config, viewers.config would only be used to map the extention to a plugin, so themers wouldnt touch it
06:06:10LloreanAnd viewer_icons.config would be a list of viewers and what icon went with them?
06:06:25LloreanOne of that file per theme?
06:06:38JdGordoni guess so
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06:07:09JdGordonor, we go the other route and give each plugin a bmp in viewers.config
06:07:32JdGordonwhich would probably waste heaps more RAM and slow down boot... but be more flexible
06:07:32LloreanSee, I'd rather something like..
06:08:30LloreanIs there an icon size restriction with the new method?
06:08:41JdGordonup to 24x24 atm
06:08:49JdGordonbut that may end up being target dependant
06:08:55LloreanWhat I'd like to see, as I said, is a single bitmap file.
06:09:04LloreanWidth of the bitmap being the icon width for that theme
06:09:12LloreanHeight being a multiple of the font height for that theme
06:09:23LloreanSo you can just divide its height by the font height to get the number of icon's you've got
06:09:26JdGordonthats how the main icons are loaded.. excpet horizontal strip, not verticle
06:09:41LloreanVertically is better in this case.
06:09:47LloreanThat way they can be arbitrary width
06:09:50LloreanAnd matched by font height
06:10:02LloreanWell, arbitrary within the 24 maximum
06:10:08JdGordonall icons need to be the same dimensions..
06:10:17LloreanYes, per theme
06:10:32Llorean24x24 is the maximum
06:10:41LloreanIf someone uses 6x6 you only have to display that 6x6
06:10:52LloreanAnd you can tell if it's 6x6 is the .bmp is 6 wide, and the font set for that theme is 6 tall
06:11:04LloreanThat way you aren't forcing oversized or undersized icons.
06:11:12JdGordondisplay the first 6x6 rect in a 24x24 rect if the font is small?
06:11:29LloreanWhat do you mean "in a 24x24 rect"?
06:11:36LloreanWhy do you have to draw the full 24x24?
06:11:59LloreanPeople should match their icon set to the theme.
06:12:02JdGordonif the iconset uses 24x24 icons, but the font size is 6x8 for example
06:12:20LloreanThat shouldn't happen unless someone creates a theme poorly, or changes to a font not compatible with the theme.
06:12:47JdGordonright, s it works now by assuming the themer isnt stupid, it centers the icon in the size of one cell...
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06:13:07LloreanBut why do you need a full sized cell?
06:18:04LloreanAs far as I'm concerned, themes should have an icon size set somewhere, or it should be defined by the font height. One or the other, but it shouldn't always use 24x24 cells for the icons. That's incredibly restrictive to those of us who like to have many, many lines on the screen.
06:21:27JdGordonnoo.... the max icon size that can be loaded is 24x24... you can load any size smaller than than
06:21:47LloreanThere should be one icon size per theme then.
06:22:25JdGordonicon size is based on the theme bmp that is loaded
06:22:36LloreanI still think a viewers.bmp would work then.
06:23:13LloreanI think using a text file to point to various things introduces a lot of complication and room for error.
06:23:37LloreanYes, you may have to repeat an icon or two, but I don't think that'll have a large negative effect if they're within a single, fairly small, bitmap
06:23:37JdGordonamiconn: didnt really like that becuase it stops you from adding plugins in the middle of he file
06:24:09LloreanIt stops you from adding plugins in the middle of viewers.config, sure, with an existing theme that has icons.
06:24:33LloreanIs there some reason we need to be able to add plugins in the *middle* of the file?
06:25:03JdGordonwasnt it only done recenlty with adding the .mpeg extension?
06:25:06JdGordonit keeps it neater
06:25:14JdGordonand chanes its position in the open with menu
06:25:38LloreanWith official themes, any time a new plugin is added, we'd have to add a new icon anyway, right?
06:25:45LloreanOr at least, add a new line to duplicate an icon.
06:25:55LloreanIt's the same amount of work to just fix the .bmp
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06:26:38LloreanI'm curious what the problem is, since either way you have to "fix" the theme
06:28:06JdGordonneed extra ram useage becuase icons would double up, and umm...
06:28:21JdGordonif we give each plugin an index into viewers.bmp then there is no problem
06:29:32LloreanJdGordon: Maybe if only viewers.bmp is present, treat it as a sequential list, but allow an additional viewer_index.config that allows them to point to multiple lines of viewers.config if it's present?
06:29:50LloreanI'm just worried that the code to handle it will cancel out any saved RAM from preventing the few double ups there may be.
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06:30:03LloreanIn fact, you *can't* save RAM
06:30:10LloreanYou have to assume that there will be NO double ups, to allow flexibility
06:30:14LloreanMeaning you have to reserve all that space anyway
06:30:32LloreanIf you're reserving it, then you might as well use it, and keep the code to handle it as simple as possible.
06:31:36JdGordonyour 100% correct, but.. (always a but :D) either way we need to get an index into the bmp, so viewer_index.config might work
06:32:30LloreanYes, but one way has only one index per bmp, the other way allows for the possibility of multiple indexes per bmp, complicating the code.
06:33:18JdGordonnot at all, becuase the current code already stores an icon for each.. change this to an index (which is sort of already done anyway)...
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06:33:37JdGordonthe difference is having a max of 32 different icons, or 32 icons with double ups..
06:33:48JdGordonor.. 32 icons with 64 plugins, and 32/32
06:33:59LloreanAh, I see, store an index for each plugin, point to the icon.
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06:34:11LloreanI was thinking store indexes for the icons describing which extensions they represented.
06:34:29LloreanThat should be fairly simple then.
06:34:51LloreanIf there's no descriptive file, assume they're matched sequentially, if the descriptive file exists, use it to pair them?
06:35:09JdGordonthat would probably work
06:35:22JdGordonseen as the icon size must be the same as the rest of the icons
06:35:33JdGordonthe hard part is still loading the icons into some buffer..
06:36:02JdGordonwell, actually, thats easy... its figuring out which of the possibly 4 (!) buffers to load into
06:36:18JdGordonmain screen icons, remote screen icons, main viewers, remote viewers
06:37:41JdGordonunless... we add the plugins to the main iconse bmp
06:37:50LloreanWhy not?
06:38:20JdGordonwell, adding a themeable icon to the main set would break all exsitsing sets
06:38:56JdGordonalthough, for simplicities sake, I tihnk thats acceptable
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06:39:06JdGordonunless a better solution can be found
06:40:01JdGordonalso, we are not ifdeffing out icons in the enum, so even if a target doesnt have the radio, the radio icon will still be loaded
06:40:14JdGordonwhich is ok in the core, but with viewers it gets a bit more wasteful
06:40:53JdGordonbugger it.... thats the way to go
06:41:05ptw419can someone gear me towards the wiki page to build rockbox?
06:41:06JdGordonby far its the easiest to get working
06:41:51JdGordonscorche wins
06:45:58*JdGordon heading out for a while
07:08:37JdGordonLlorean: I was being silly before... if extra icons are added then all custom iconsets will need updating anyway
07:08:58JdGordon... obviously :p
07:09:08***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
07:10:07 Quit entheh ("^~")
07:11:59ptw419does svn co svn:// rockbox download the daily build?
07:12:39JdGordonno, thats the source code
07:12:50ptw419ah wait the build
07:13:06LloreanIt's the current source code, neither day old nor a build
07:13:19ptw419yes, sorry
07:14:14JdGordoncrap... how is it supposed to figure out how wide each icon is if the number is variable?
07:14:29JdGordonbefore viewers it does bmp.width / icon_count
07:14:32LloreanJdGordon: That's why I said the file should be tall.
07:14:45LloreanHeight could then use the font height, and width would be the width of the file. :)
07:15:00LloreanJust make that a rule for themeing: Your icons must match your chosen font's height.
07:15:14JdGordonbut then you cant load a smaller iconset than your font
07:15:37JdGordone.g a 12x12 iconset with a 16x19 font
07:16:19LloreanDoes this need to be possible, honestly? Icons should be a part of a theme.
07:16:39LloreanIf they're to stand on their own, there needs to be an icon description file anyway, to tell it what set of icons to load and how many there are.
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07:17:32JdGordonmaybe I will make it rely on an text file for this
07:17:55JdGordonno, ill just add the setting and hope themers set it correctly
07:18:12LloreanThemers need to set plenty of other things correctly anyway.
07:19:58midkayJdGordon: whassup! latest progress?
07:20:24JdGordonfs 7013
07:21:21midkayJdGordon: i saw that, nice.. nothing new since?
07:21:35JdGordonnot yet
07:21:49JdGordonhopening to have everything except charcell finished tonight though
07:21:59midkaypretty cool, that was quick.
07:22:08midkayi can start working on some color icons.. i already created a nice "folder" one.
07:22:30JdGordongo for it :)
07:22:45midkayany thoughts on size? you said 8x8 before... i guess that sounds fair?
07:22:48 Quit rotator ()
07:23:21LloreanI assume icons respect 255,0,255?
07:23:30*Llorean wishes we'd picked 254,0,255 or 255,1,255
07:23:55midkayLlorean: yes, they should just like any other bitmap.
07:24:32JdGordonmidkay: my sansa uses the default font size, so 6x8 colour would be nice :p (/me really has to get a better theme on it :)
07:24:34Lloreanmidkay: I wasn't sure if that was an aspect of the WPS display, or an aspect of bitmap loading.
07:24:42JdGordonand yes, colour icons respect 255,0,255
07:24:49JdGordonb+w is white transparent
07:25:08LloreanThe first set should match the current icon dimensions, since they're to go with the default font.
07:25:18midkayLlorean: oh, ok. well FYI, it's how it works in the code.. bitmap_transparent..
07:25:23midkayor transparent_bitmap, i forget. :)
07:25:34Lloreanmidkay: Alright, just making sure. :)
07:25:41midkayjust a bit of background :)
07:25:53midkayi already created a nice 8x8 icon though!!!! i don't wanna lose it!
07:26:13LloreanSo save that for set #2
07:26:20midkayhaha. no way! :(
07:26:32JdGordon:) 8x8 is a better size than 6x8 anyway
07:26:39midkayit'll be the same height, just a little wider.. i think that sounds fair for color LCDs which tend to be bigger than the archos lcd the icons were originally designed for?
07:26:47JdGordonwhich would work for the default font seen as the height is the same
07:27:01LloreanYeah, the smallest color screen is 128x128, which is 12 pixels wider.
07:27:13LloreanSo you can steal two of them... if you must...
07:27:17_jhMikeS_shouldn't we just break down and add alpha bitmaps?
07:27:28midkayi think we can afford 2 pixels.. especially on screens like 320 in width, like 3x the archos LCD width :)
07:27:29Llorean_jhMikeS_: Then we have to blend.
07:27:53Lloreanmidkay: Yeah, but you assume for the worst case (128x128) not the best. :-P Still, two pixels is fair.
07:27:55_jhMikeS_which is no big deal really...and can be fast. I offer to implement it to prove it
07:28:18Llorean_jhMikeS_: It can be fast, but it's still slower than without it, isn't it?
07:28:18midkayLlorean: calm down you screenspace-conserving.. little.. conserva..tion..alist!
07:28:27_jhMikeS_not by much
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07:28:39Llorean_jhMikeS_: Yeah but the iPod 5G's screen is already "too slow" isn't it?
07:28:42LloreanI wouldn't mind alpha.
07:28:44_jhMikeS_and especially if used selectively
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07:28:49midkay_jhMikeS_: yes! implement it! i'll love you forever :)
07:28:52LloreanI'm just worried about making a bad situation worse.
07:29:17midkayit'd seriously be nice to have, especially for plugins.. even amiconn's suggestion of a simpler, quicker 0/25/50/75/100% alpha..
07:29:24_jhMikeS_well, for icons it's not much...and for the rest...optimize font drawing or something to make up for it.
07:29:25LloreanIt would definitely look nice.
07:30:02 Nick _jhMikeS_ is now known as jhMikeS (n=jethead7@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS)
07:30:41 Quit Jon-Kha_ ("leaving")
07:30:56jhMikeSWe could have a couple transparency formats - 1bit a 5bit - and the mask should just be a separate plane
07:32:26jhMikeSright now I need to add the fix that will let video always play. it happens to be that the sleep in pcm_mute is the reason for all the trouble
07:34:10jhMikeSthe fix will make it irrelevant because it shouldn't even matter if it's there
07:34:31LloreanThen why is it there?
07:35:43jhMikeSpcmbuf_pause calls pcm_mute to stop pops, but I removed it for some hardware
07:37:08jhMikeSI really think the buffer shouldn't mute anything. For TLV and UDA it turns out that the order you do things determine whether or not you get pops...and those don't do it. And for the Gigabeat it apparently gets races to the finish before a problem shows up.
07:37:43LloreanSo it's a workaround rather than a fix, and not a particularly beneficial one overall?
07:38:11jhMikeSwhat's that...the muting. I think it's a bit of a hack, yeah
07:38:58jhMikeSI removed it because the muting would screw up the radio which voice was being used with the radio and it would silence every time a clip played
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07:40:40jhMikeSbtw, am I the only one experiencing choppy playback on the bitrate mp3 on sansa? :\
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07:41:39LloreanjhMikeS: No, I seem to recall someone else mentioning it somewhere.
07:42:27LloreanIt's probably the general portalplayer mash, combined with some extra slowness the Sansa seems to have (at least the UI seems slower on it than on my Nano, though I'll admit the screens a bit bigger)
07:42:35jhMikeSthat FIQ handler is just odd...does the OF actually send data to I2S that way.
07:43:17LloreanYou'd want to ask toni (who wrote the emulator and got some stuff from the original firmware) or barrywardell on that one I think
07:43:57jhMikeSIt really should use some kind of automatic DMA transfer if it can do it
07:44:10midkayJdGordon: hmm.. what is this icon? slightly left of the middle.. between a speaker icon and the RWPS icon.
07:44:12LloreanI think it's a case of not knowing how to do DMA yet for that?
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07:45:08jhMikeShmmm...yeah. I think it's time for a crunch to figure that out and would probably solve the issues if it's possible to do.
07:45:51JdGordonmidkay: ... which?
07:46:13midkayplugin icon, bookmark icon, RWPS icon, ???, speaker (?), bold "K"...
07:46:29midkaynot too sure of either the speaker nor the one left of it.
07:46:41JdGordonthe K ?
07:46:43midkaylike two boxes on top of one another.
07:46:49midkayno, the ???? one.
07:46:52midkaywhat is that?
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07:46:56midkaybefore the K, before the speaker..
07:47:35JdGordonIcon_Queued apparently
07:48:33midkayis that actually used anywhere? i've *never* seen it.
07:48:43midkaycan you search the tree for it?
07:48:54LloreanSounds like it'd show in playlists for queued files maybe?
07:49:06midkayLlorean: well, i've never seen it there.. never ever.
07:49:21midkaysounds possibly like something that might have been in a far earlier release (like 1.3)..
07:49:25LloreanI never use "queue" or even look at the contents of my playlist, so it's just random guessing
07:50:18midkayit seems to me, by the way, that queue works the same as insert..
07:50:30midkayJdGordon: huh, odd.. well alright :)
07:50:46LloreanThe same as insert how?
07:51:21midkayah. i just checked the manual.. never mind. (apparently queue will delete the file from the playlist after it's played.)
07:51:54midkayi wish we had some sort of.. hmm.. "play from this file onwards after the current track ends" insert-option.
07:52:17LloreanLike, to skip to another point in the same playlist?
07:52:48LloreanYou can already do it with folders, with the "Play next" option.
07:52:54kkurbjunllorean, I don't think the buttonlight/backlight problems are related to the chnages I made
07:53:23midkayLlorean: no, more like.. i'm in the middle of a dynamic playlist of DCFC - Plans and i want to start on track 5 of DCFC - Transatlanticism and continue from there onto track 6, 7.. - after the current Plans song is done.
07:53:24kkurbjunI found that on my player it's dependent on whether you touch a button while the splash is showing
07:53:26Lloreankkurbjun: Okay. I just know that I noticed them after updating today, and I'd previously updated before your changes, so they seemed most likely
07:53:35midkayi didn't realize Play Next worked on folders, but i mean more specifically jumping straight to a song.
07:53:52kkurbjunfor example if I touch right on the plus it happens, if I don't touch anything then everything works ok
07:54:08Lloreanmidkay: Click on track 5 and choose "play next" and you should get the whole folder, starting on track 5. Not *quite* what you want though, since at the end you'd get 1-4 (assuming shuffle was off)
07:54:09kkurbjuncan you check if it's the same for you?
07:54:27midkayLlorean: no, it will play *only* track 5 and totally wipe the rest of the playlist.. that's what i understand.
07:54:28kkurbjunI mean if I don't touch anythign til the backlight fades out
07:54:30Lloreankkurbjun: For me, if I don't touch the plus, after I unplug the backlight will not come on
07:54:33midkayPlay next.
07:54:34midkay Replaces all but the current playing track with track(s). Current playing track is queued.
07:54:38Lloreankkurbjun: If I touch the plus to make sure the backlight is on when I unplug, it's fine
07:54:58Lloreanmidkay: Oh, right.
07:55:11Lloreanmidkay: For some reason my brain was thinking that "Play Next" worked like select in the browser, rather than insert.
07:55:19kkurbjunwhat about when you are loading? if I jsut power on the device and then dont touch anythign till after the backlight fades out it seems to work fine
07:55:33kkurbjunI don't get the dead screen or the weird buttonlights
07:55:54Lloreankkurbjun: Yeah, if I power on the device, the buttonlights are on. Then if I don't press anything, the backlight goes out, it comes back when I press buttons, and everything is fine
07:55:58midkaywhat we need is a "Play selected next" for single songs and "Play from here next" or something for this-song-and-onwards.
07:56:05LloreanThe button LEDs fade when the backlight goes out, and never come back (they were never meant to be on)
07:56:42kkurbjunyep, that's strange, the symptoms are a bit different on my player
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07:58:03LloreanWell, it's consistent
07:58:12LloreanThe button LEDs are on every boot, and stay on until the first backlight fade.
07:58:37LloreanThe backlight works fine _unless_ it fades during a USB connection. If the backlight is off when I disconnect USB, it won't come back on until I reconnect USB or reboot
07:58:39jhMikeSLlorean: well, video should start all the time now...try it out
07:59:14LloreanjhMikeS: Alright, I'll wait 'till the official build finishes and load it up on my Sansa.
07:59:19LloreanIt'll take about as long as booting the VMWare image
07:59:37jhMikeSI've got one more update coming to mpegplayer itself though, so wait a few. I'll put it in now.
07:59:42kkurbjunmy steps to prevent the bug are to:
07:59:42kkurbjun1) power on the device
07:59:42kkurbjun2) during the boot sequence touch right on the plus pad
07:59:42DBUGEnqueued KICK kkurbjun
07:59:42kkurbjun3) the buttonlights will then be on at first
07:59:42kkurbjunto keep the bug from happening I
07:59:43***Alert Mode level 1
07:59:43kkurbjun1) power on the device
07:59:45kkurbjun2) let it go through the full boot sequence till the backlight fades out (the button leds do not turn on during the initial boot)
08:00:13kkurbjunsorry, I didn't realize that it was going to put those as new messages each
08:00:37kkurbjunI'm sorry, first sequence should be steps to cause bug
08:00:48Lloreankkurbjun: If I don't press *anything* the button LEDs still come on
08:01:21kkurbjunhmm, ok, I'm going to keep messing around with this and see if I can figure out what else may have caused this
08:03:00LloreanjhMikeS: The other mpegplayer update: Fix or optimization?
08:03:30jhMikeSbetter handling of stopping
08:03:40jhMikeSbetter handling of thread failure
08:03:50jhMikeSsome volatiles that need to be there
08:03:50LloreanWill it speed up stopping? It recently started taking 2 or 3 seconds to stop on my player
08:04:32jhMikeSthat's probably because the remaining data was being waited for to play instead of the thread just exiting
08:04:32 Quit moos ("Glory to Rockbox")
08:05:05LloreanVideo stops but audio continues for that period.
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08:05:23Lloreanbut it wasn't a big deal either wya
08:06:12jhMikeSyeah, the video thread exited immediately but not audio
08:07:05jhMikeSwell, it's on the last build now
08:07:29CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
08:07:29*JdGordon wishes to kill Llorean
08:07:41JdGordonthe default icons are painfull to load now
08:07:52JdGordonbecause I dont know how wide each of them is... :'(
08:08:05LloreanAren't they 6?
08:08:59amiconnjhMikeS: Do these variable really need to be volatile on single core targets?
08:09:44***Alert Mode OFF
08:09:48jhMikeSthey might, yes if gcc thinks it's clever and tries to optimize a read of them because it doesn't see the current function it's compiling modifying the value
08:10:06JdGordonLlorean: well, atm they are... but for how long?
08:10:15jhMikeSI've had that one get me before
08:10:59amiconnUuic you never need 'volatile' with cooperative multithreading and single core unless the variable actually means a hardware port or is changed from within interrupts
08:11:04LloreanJdGordon: Well, if the defaults change sizes then we can change wherever the default size is defined, right?
08:11:05amiconn*Iiuc, bah
08:11:56LloreanJdGordon: Wasn't there a thought to have target-specific defaults eventually anyway, if we go with target-specific fonts?
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08:12:07JdGordonyes, and yes
08:12:10midkayhmm... for the color icons. not too sure what to do for coloring. for a few of them i can give them a nice shaded appearance (like folder) but for the other relatively barebones ones.. should they be black? or a lighter more solid fill? maybe to make them easier to identify.. any thoughts?
08:12:27LloreanSo it needs to be set somewhere in the config-blah.h anyway
08:12:38JdGordonmidkay: they would probably need a whole theme going... so whatever
08:12:52midkayJdGordon: what do you mean?
08:13:03Lloreanmidkay: For now I'd go black border with a medium-gray fill for contrast to the light blue default background (similar to the splashes)
08:13:37midkayLlorean: but the problem is that most of them are so.. thin... that there's not really any area for "fill".
08:13:56LloreanWell, if there's no area for a fill, I guess just black for now.
08:14:02midkayi think for some of the file view icons it'd be nice to give them some kind of dark color tint to make them more identifiable? dark red for music, dark green for .. whatever..?
08:14:16midkaydark dark.. like subtle. 48,0,0 or something for a dark red.
08:15:02LloreanHm, I'd have to see how it ends up looking, I think
08:15:11jhMikeSif it always reloads on a tight loop, it shouldn't affect it one bit then so there's no need for #ifdef'ing it anyway
08:15:13LloreanAs long as it's not too, I dunno, varying.
08:15:20LloreanLike, save colors for just a few specific types maybe.
08:15:29LloreanLike, music, and playlists, and maybe videos.
08:15:33midkaykinda hard to say.. yeah.. :\ it just seems kinda odd to have like, this beautiful shaded realistic folder icon among a sea of pure black icons.
08:16:06Lloreanmidkay: Well, really, just do what you see fit and we can argue about them after if they look stupid. :-P
08:16:13midkayhaha. they will :D
08:16:27LloreanjhMikeS: Video seems to play fine on my Sansa now, and the tick-tick-tick is fixed (the one presumably fixed by your BSS change)
08:16:47midkaywhat about like red for system/rockbox files (WPS, RWPS, config, rolo firmware..), green for music/photos/video, blue for.. whatever else.. blah. just thinking aloud.
08:16:50jhMikeSoops, I left an order switchup that shouldn't be there though
08:17:24jhMikeSI think too much time is spent in that FIQ handler
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08:18:31amiconnmidkay: Speaking about icon looks, what should the 'system' icon (in svn) actually resemble?
08:18:56LloreanjhMikeS: Well, I was just commenting on the things readily visible to me. :)
08:19:10JdGordonread_bmp_file: Bitmap too wide (192 pixels, max is 160) :'(
08:19:18midkayamiconn: it was some sort of shield.. i came up with a few different ones that hardly made any sense and i guess that one was chosen. if you've got another, feel free :)
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08:19:49jhMikeSLlorean: yeah, I get the ticking...especially when playing my high bitrate files
08:19:53amiconnJdGordon: oh, forgot that one
08:20:21amiconnLoadable bitmap width is limited because of on-stack buffer constraints. Height isn't limited that way
08:20:36jhMikeSI guess the using the COP for video keeps the CPU from bogging too much but playback is another story
08:20:36amiconnSo one reason to use a vertical strip...
08:20:47JdGordonguess we are flipping then :'(
08:21:29midkayi just drew out this nice horizontal strip. oh well.
08:22:07midkayeasy fix actually..
08:22:45JdGordoneasier for you than me... soo much code to change
08:23:03LloreanjhMikeS: Are you using the "no-vinyl" audio patch?
08:23:14LloreanjhMikeS: There's currently a few issues with how the hardware is initialized.
08:23:23midkayJdGordon: aww, sorry :(
08:23:28midkayi can fix the icon bitmaps if you want..
08:23:30jhMikeSI need to get that codec datasheet
08:23:36midkayor did you have an easy way to output them?
08:23:54JdGordoni dumped them from a plugin.. so was easy
08:23:59LloreanjhMikeS: Try this patch:
08:24:15amiconnJdGordon: I would expect this to be two little changes in the icon drawing function...
08:24:26LloreanOr maybe the one from Andrew Green, I haven't tried it, I think it's just a louder version
08:24:33jhMikeSI was supposed to get the datasheet, guess I have to ask Bagder
08:24:50*Llorean would like to see you have the datasheet, yes.
08:25:22JdGordonamiconn: yeah, it is... but we decided to tack the viewers onto the end, so its a bit more than 2 changes
08:25:24jhMikeSwell, he said to ask him :) I don't know if he wants to email it though
08:25:25midkayJdGordon: into a long strip? can you do that again for a vertical one?
08:25:35JdGordonmidkay: course :)
08:25:48midkayJdGordon: alright then, saves me time :) *continues coloring*
08:25:57midkayis that a lot of work to change in the code? how long do you expect it to take?
08:26:05JdGordon2 min :p
08:26:24midkaythen i'll export these for an initial test in a moment..
08:26:51LloreanjhMikeS: You probably just need to remind him.
08:27:54jhMikeSI think something is wrong in the color too
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08:30:13jhMikeSblue seems to leak everywhere :\
08:30:40LloreanJust in mpeg?
08:30:50jhMikeSnot sure
08:30:56jhMikeSI should test backdrops
08:31:22JdGordonbah, the video screen isnt high enough to display every icon in one screen
08:31:33LloreanjhMikeS: Colors look fine normally to me.
08:31:40midkayJdGordon: gigabeat? 240x320
08:31:50JdGordonyeah, had to do that
08:31:53LloreanjhMikeS: But watching a video, it does look a bit blue tinted.
08:32:00*JdGordon back soon
08:32:07LloreanjhMikeS: Could it be in the adaptation of the ASM optimizations from the Gigabeat?
08:33:20jhMikeScould be that it's not right for this but I see "leaky colors" in all components
08:34:04LloreanHm, okay
08:34:17LloreanI haven't looked very hard. :)
08:36:08jhMikeSno, something is and red have huge jumps about up to level 24 and then no change above that. for green, level 48
08:36:35jhMikeSfor green above that it's starts getting a yellowish tint
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08:36:40LloreanPlaying with the sliders for the backdrop?
08:37:50jhMikeSthe clickwheel need a good going over too
08:37:57LloreanVery badly, yes. :)
08:40:23midkayJdGordon: let me know when you return.
08:41:11jhMikeSI see the difficulty...I wonder if that can generate interrupts itself
08:41:58jhMikeSit would have to in order to ever be able to work correctly or be read _really_ often
08:43:16jhMikeSyou can't poll it like that or wheel values alias each other and you might go through the whole cycle by the next read
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08:48:36kkurbjunLlorean, just to update you it looks like the problems are caused by my patch, I'm working on a fix right now.
08:49:44Lloreankkurbjun: Cool, thanks. :)
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08:51:30JdGordonmidkay: back
08:51:49midkayJdGordon: welcome, i've got a color icon set you can test whenever you're ready.
08:52:02JdGordonwhat size?
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08:54:34JdGordonas a verticle strip?
08:56:20JdGordonnice, put em up somewhere :)
08:57:04midkayJdGordon: here, try these.
08:57:13midkaysome are colored and i'd like to know how they look :)
08:57:46JdGordonthey look good like that :)
08:57:57JdGordonill get the h300 sim going and see how they look there
08:58:22midkayi think so, but i'm curious how it looks in the context of rockbox and the filebrowser etc :)
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08:58:35JdGordoncan you upload the bmp or email it to me pleasE?
08:58:46midkayagh... damn imageshack.
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09:02:02JdGordonBitmap too large for buffer: 77440 bytes :(
09:02:13midkayru kidding me.
09:02:16JdGordonill just have to sue it as the inbuilt ones for now
09:02:22midkaythat must be modifiable?
09:02:27JdGordonor i opened the wrong file
09:02:36JdGordonvery possible seen as i couldnt actually see text
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09:02:48midkayah.. hmm..
09:02:55midkayit says 5KB here for what it's worth..
09:03:04midkay4.05KB even.
09:03:22JdGordonread_bmp_file: Bitmap too high (256 pixels, max is 176)
09:03:28JdGordonamiconn: ... ?
09:03:39midkaythat better be modifiable :)
09:03:56JdGordonplease dont tell me we will have to put them in a 2d array.. :'(
09:03:59midkaywhat target? h300?
09:04:06midkaymakes sense... 176 px high...
09:04:11midkaybecause of backdrops..
09:04:18midkaybut that still needs to be increased!
09:04:21JdGordonbut thats an evil limitation
09:04:29amiconnBackdrops are checked in another place
09:04:53midkaybut it makes sense why it's hard-limited to 176 in that respect.. unless there's another reason.
09:04:59midkayhow would you change it?
09:05:42JdGordonrecorder/bmp.c 217.. can that check be removed?
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09:06:41JdGordonapparently iit cant
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09:06:50amiconnJdGordon: Just remove the height limit check (lines 218..224 in bmp.c). Do _not_ remove the height read (line 217)+
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09:09:10***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
09:09:48jhMikeSwhy not just change the bitmap loader to accept limits or no limit on a w/h if it's -1 or something?
09:10:04amiconnThe width limit is necessary because of the line buffer
09:10:26amiconnThe height limit is just a sanity check that is no longer needed
09:10:39jhMikeSthe linebuffer could be provided externally or use the default if NULL
09:10:52amiconnMaybe, but why?
09:10:58amiconnIt's not necessary...
09:11:17jhMikeSI don't know, maximum flexibility really
09:13:03amiconnUnnecessary complication (you'd have an extra parameter to pass)
09:13:34JdGordonmidkay: niiiice :)
09:13:39jhMikeSThat's why I kind of have a weakness for struct pointer params whith functions like that
09:13:42midkayJdGordon: working? pix.. :)
09:14:06JdGordongotta make the list use the correct sacing first
09:14:21amiconnjhMikeS: Still, why? Flexibility is good in general, but only add it if there is a real benefit
09:14:26amiconnIn this case there is none
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09:16:24JdGordonmidkay: can you do a 8x8x1 please if you still have the b+w?
09:16:39 Quit miepchen^schlaf (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
09:16:56midkayJdGordon: i can paint it to be b+w if you want.. few moments..
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09:18:35midkayJdGordon: white bg?
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09:21:54midkayJdGordon: is that for the remote or something?
09:23:07JdGordonare those icons using the full 8x8? i.e with no border?
09:23:13kkurbjunllorean, I just commited a patch that should fix the backlight and leds for now. Seems like the hardware didn't like the way I was setting the pullups. Let me know if you are still getting the same bugs with this patch
09:23:21JdGordonit seems the list doesnt put in a pixel gap between icons and the text
09:23:30JdGordonI think :p
09:23:33midkayJdGordon: well, the contents are 8x7... blank line at the bottom of each one.
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09:23:45midkayyes, we left that for the icon maker to account for, right? to leave an extra pixel or two below each.
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09:24:00JdGordonbelow and on the right
09:24:10midkayon the right too? that doesn't seem right to me..
09:24:28midkay6x8 icons never had a space on the right.
09:25:13JdGordonthe list asumed icon width of 8 pixels
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09:25:42Phillipmay i please ask a question about player support?
09:26:07midkayJdGordon: oh.. better fix it then :D
09:26:09JdGordonAH found the problem
09:26:09midkayPhillip: sure.
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09:27:05Phillipim looking at perhaps buying a Toshiba MEG-F40S, but im not sure if that would be M series or F series(having seen no mention of M series players)
09:27:06GuardianHeadon the current build page, what's the difference between boot, normal and sim?
09:27:10JdGordongot it :) forcing a 2pixel gap between the icons and text
09:27:32LloreanGuardianHead: They're not downloadable, scroll down as the instructions tell you to
09:27:47Phillipi assume it would be F-series, but id rather not find out the hard way that i was wrong
09:27:47SliMMJdGordon: have you finished the icon thing?
09:27:53JdGordonSliMM: almost
09:28:01SliMMgreat :)
09:28:07LloreanPhillip: Yes, that's the F-series
09:28:08JdGordonmidkay: your iconset is wrong btw... the K is shown instead of the ?
09:28:28midkayJdGordon: good to forice it.. and i got some backwards?
09:28:40Phillipthank you very much for your help
09:29:03midkayJdGordon: whoops.. hmm.. one sec.
09:29:33SliMMi have a question not related to rockbox: do you know where can i find the source code of a basic mathematical expresion parser? i don't feel like writing one
09:29:50midkayJdGordon: btw.. something seems missing.. i see a back and forward arrow in this bitmap list, but no ffw/rw icons.. are those screwed up?
09:29:59midkayi.e. try fastforward or rewinding in the WPS, what shows up in the status bar?
09:30:15JdGordondifferent icon sets
09:30:25JdGordonwe arnt dealing with the statusbar icons just yet
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09:30:32midkayoh. alright.
09:30:44 Join Landus [0] (
09:31:22LloreanSliMM: This is an on-topic channel, as the guidelines say. Try Google or something"> has some screenies
09:31:46midkayJdGordon: new versions up.."> and
09:31:52midkaysorry about that, dunno what happened...
09:31:59SliMMllorean: ok, ok >:P"> even
09:32:24GuardianHeadis it safe to simply overwrite the .rockbox folder with a newer version?
09:32:43midkayJdGordon: seems like you've forced one pixel spacing?
09:32:52midkayGuardianHead: yes, that's what you're supposed to do.
09:33:02JdGordonit should be 2.. but yeah
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09:33:39midkaylooks like one.. and hmm.. in the third shot it looks like the icons are either right up against the left side, or even cut off by a pixel over there..
09:33:39GuardianHeadthanks midgey
09:33:43GuardianHeadmidkay too
09:33:48midkayGuardianHead: haha, no problem
09:33:57midkayJdGordon: padding on the left would be nice too.
09:34:09midkay(that's what i meant by both my last 2 comments.)
09:34:48midkaycool though.. hey.. first colored icons EVER in rockbox :)
09:35:07midkayindeed, first bigger than 6x8, as far as i've ever heard or seen.
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09:35:52SliMMthere should be a wiki page for icon sets, just like for WPSs
09:35:55GuardianHeadThere was somebody who made their own custom mod of rockbox in here, but I don't remember their name - any ideas?
09:36:15GuardianHeadhe was staff or a helpful idler or something :)
09:36:25B4gdersomeone in here made a mod? noooo... :-P
09:36:31jhMikeSJdGordon: cool. One thing is that icons shouldn't have to worry about margins. add the spacing in drawing instead. I'm just guessing at what's going on there.
09:36:45GuardianHeadwell B4gder a mod that he made downloadable
09:36:59SliMMGuardiabHead: most of the people in here code rockbox
09:37:07B4gderGuardianHead: still, that applies to just about everyone in here
09:37:14ptw419 what usually happens on an unsupported device if rockbox boots?
09:37:21JdGordonjhMikeS: i dont tihnk so, they are drawn to a pixel, not pixel+offset...
09:37:23LloreanSliMM: The icon sets should mostly be parts of whole themes.
09:37:40SliMMllorean: great
09:37:42B4gderptw419: if rockbox boots, is it really unsupported?
09:37:47GuardianHeadSliMM your client needs nick-completion.
09:37:55SliMMGuardianHead: yeah
09:38:02SliMMGuardianHead: sorry
09:38:11jhMikeSJdGordon: I meant leaving blank rows and colums in icons like is done with glyphs
09:38:47SliMMGuardianHead: anyway, search the forums for custom builds, take a look in the tracker for patches etc. has nice icons
09:39:46GuardianHeadthanks SliMM
09:39:48JdGordonjhMikeS: you mean force the artist to put the gap in?
09:39:57B4gderptw419: so what exactly do you want to know?
09:40:11 Quit Phillip ("Thanks!")
09:40:22jhMikeSno, don't...though if I'm just seeing that wrong tell, me and ignore it. :\
09:40:24SliMMthat's ok
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09:41:37*jhMikeS was thinking there were gaps in the icon images themselves...oh stupid
09:42:54SliMMjhMikeS: how do i write like that?
09:43:08jhMikeS=> /me
09:43:46*SliMM thanks
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09:44:59JdGordonmidkay: you have to chane the lang icon... Ab looks like text with some fonts
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09:45:13GuardianHeadOn a nano, is the only way to shut it off to hold down play/pause for a long long time?
09:45:17midkayJdGordon: font icon you mean? alright.. :(
09:45:28midkayi wanted something different than the italics "A" but i guess that won't work.
09:45:36SliMMthe romanian translation really sucks
09:45:45SliMMcan i just edit the lang file?
09:45:52B4gderSliMM: yes
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09:46:55midkayJdGordon: new versions up
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09:48:07JdGordonwho knows the bmp2rb code?
09:48:14ptw419I just wanted to know whats the first thing to expect in getting an unsupported device to work w/ rockbox
09:49:00B4gderptw419: did you read the NewPort wiki page?
09:49:14jhMikeSjust use the Rolling Stones tongue logo :)
09:49:22SliMMptw419: find someone interested in porting rockbox to that device
09:49:34SliMMptw419: someone that can do that
09:49:39ptw419not recently. but i will.
09:50:22B4gderptw419: the first step is usually to just alter some text or something in the OF
09:50:46B4gderI mean the first software change
09:51:03GuardianHeadholy shit I didn't know the nano has a built in gameboy emu, you guys are awesome!
09:51:18jhMikeSbuilt in?
09:51:29GuardianHeadthe nano build of rockbox, yeah
09:51:54SliMMis java mobile platform opensource?
09:52:00ptw419well i'm working on the Gigabeat S. So far we've managed to disable the signature checks in the boot loader
09:52:01jhMikeSit hides in the ROMs of most DAPs actually
09:52:21B4gderptw419: wow, cool!
09:52:28scorcheSliMM: please stop asking about unrelated topics in here...
09:52:41B4gderptw419: so now you can modify strings in the firmware and still boot it?
09:53:03SliMMscorche: if it is opensource someone could try porting it to rockbox
09:53:08ptw419well it will boot, but the shell won't
09:53:22ptw419or i should say the firmware half way boots
09:53:59scorcheSliMM: that doesnt make that question on-topic
09:54:04ptw419From what I understand there are probably other sig checks that prevent executables from running
09:54:21LinusNamiconn: there?
09:54:40SliMMscorche: fine..
09:55:13GuardianHeadOn a nano, is the only way to shut it off to hold down play/pause for a long long time?
09:55:35scorcheGuardianHead: i would hardly call 5 seconds a long long time..
09:55:45midkayscorche: it's actually like 3 seconds.
09:55:57GuardianHeadwell the previous installation I had, which was by someone else, there was a menu option
09:56:01LloreanI wouldn't mind a "Shut Down" option in the main menu, honestly
09:56:09GuardianHeadmenu -> shut down -> shut down
09:56:20scorchemidkay: same point though
09:56:22midkaymenu -> shut down sounds nice..
09:56:31GuardianHeadhe also had a reboot to main firmware option, but that didn't work :P
09:56:33SliMMit does
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09:56:38JdGordonanyone know a simple paint program for linux?
09:56:45midkayscorche: not quite.. if i said "i hardly consider 30 seconds a long time", well that wouldn't be the same point. the number of seconds is quite important. :)
09:56:49LloreanJdGordon: We all use Gimp. :-P
09:56:55JdGordonnot gimp
09:57:04JdGordonthe mspaint equivilant
09:57:11SliMMJdGordon: GIMP is not simple but good
09:57:19*JdGordon wants simple
09:57:21*scorche remembers one of his new years resolutions was to avoid this sort of thing with midkay
09:57:31LloreanSliMM: He's just going to be pixel mashing for the new icons, I imagine
09:57:36SliMMJdGordon: try rockpaint :P
09:57:38midkayscorche: it's true though. no argument.
09:57:52JdGordongoogle says kolourpaint
09:57:58SliMMllorean: ctrl + +
09:58:21ptw419I was trying to find the dwLaunchAddr variable in the bootloader and see maybe if it can be altered w/ the rockbox offset.
10:02:02*JdGordon was not cut out for this pixel art buisness :p
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10:02:20GuardianHeadyeah pixel art is weird
10:02:22SliMMJdGordon: i can help
10:02:24GuardianHeadit doesn't look right
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10:03:02LloreanGuardianHead: Technically speaking, everything you see on your monitor is pixel art.
10:03:08LloreanIt's just putting it together by pixels that is irritating.
10:03:25LloreanJdGordon: Clearly you should code a vector icon system so that they can readily be scaled. :-P
10:03:50B4gderand make them 3D
10:03:55B4gderso that they can rotate nicely
10:03:58Lloreankkurbjun: Everything seems to be working as it should again.
10:04:05SliMMllorean: actually, pixel art is (now) drawing images pixel by pixel
10:04:15LloreanB4gder: Doesn't SVG have a 3D extension?
10:04:28B4gderwe need our own format!
10:04:55LloreanSliMM: Yes, but I can draw pixel by pixel anything you see on the screen, therefor saying "Pixel art looks weird" is inaccurate: Anything could and can be pixel art.
10:05:03*JdGordon has never used goto before... how do you say where the label is?
10:05:04SliMMshould i use a single color argument for my opacity fncs or rather red green and blue arguments?
10:05:06LloreanClearly proprietary formats are the way to go for all images we use.
10:05:18LloreanJdGordon: label:
10:05:26petura set of (temporary) scaled bitmaps could be generated when the user changes font
10:05:58Lloreanpetur: Quick and dirty (newwidth/oldwidth)*x type scaline?
10:06:01SliMMllorean: you need very much talent and imagination to draw everithing on screen pixel by pixel
10:06:17SliMMllorean: and patience :P
10:06:39midkaySliMM: doesn't change the fact that you could do it if you wanted to.. :)
10:06:51SliMMmidkay: of course not
10:06:57scorcheit really isnt that bad with planning and practice...
10:07:14LloreanSliMM: I have absolutely no artistic talent. If I very, very, very badly need to draw a picture in my head, I've always had to put it together mostly pixel by pixel to have any chance of it coming out how I imagine it.
10:07:25LloreanAnyway, this is falling aside the point.
10:07:33SliMMyes :))
10:08:30LloreanjhMikeS: Just as a note, yes, stopping is much, much faster on my gigabeat again with a recent build. :)
10:08:33SliMMnow, i'd better use red green and blue parameters, for not packing and unpacking too much
10:08:43 Quit kkurbjun (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
10:09:56SliMMis there any performance improvement with the cop builds?
10:10:32LloreanSliMM: Considering current COP code doesn't work properly, not really
10:10:37jhMikeSLlorean: excellent. which problems remain...the non layer3 audio one?
10:10:43LloreanjhMikeS: Yep
10:11:51*jhMikeS really has to have a video like that to work on ... try this site:
10:12:38LloreanjhMikeS: Okay, uploading, I'll let you know when finished
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10:14:33*Llorean discovers that Vista creates a different Recycle Bin than XP.
10:14:56LloreanIt should be pretty easy to update disktidy though, I imagine.
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10:15:49cropIs there an explanation of the RB memory concepts and layout somewhere on the wiki? All that iram, bss etc. What they are, when the areas are cleared etc. I've read the irc log from yesterday (amiconn, jsMikeS) and couldn't follow
10:17:13LinusNcrop: not that i know of
10:17:20B4gderI don't think so, no
10:17:43LinusNcrop: here's your chance to contribute :-)
10:17:58peturdidn't pondlife make a mem graph somewhere? maybe in some comment in the code
10:18:05cropThat's a pity since if the two get more real life nobody will know how the stuff works
10:18:34cropMaybe this could be done during DevCon ;-)
10:19:05jhMikeScrop: it's still in flux anyway and really undiciplined at the moment. it needs some primitive mangement added to keep things from being clobbered
10:19:15B4gdercrop: we are many who know what that stuff is
10:20:26*jhMikeS has a real life too ;)
10:20:52B4gder"real" is in floating point?
10:20:54B4gderas in
10:21:22jhMikeSyeah...things float everywhere...having a fixed point in life is good
10:21:39linuxstbLlorean: What happens with you play a video with non layer-3 audio?
10:22:26Lloreanlinuxstb: It's hard to describe well. Pops and squeeks.
10:22:53LloreanSomewhat similar to the artifacts I was getting with speex files made with an old speex encoder, only more often.
10:23:00jhMikeSI have a video that does that about 5min into it but that's a long time to wait to test it
10:23:15LloreanjhMikeS: The sample video I'm uploading does it all over the place. LOTS.
10:23:22Llorean77% done uploading.
10:23:30linuxstbAnd it worked prior to jhMikeS's improvements?
10:23:35jhMikeSthat's good cause it'll get the job done faster
10:23:36Lloreanlinuxstb: Yup.
10:23:55linuxstbOn all your targets?
10:24:08Lloreanlinuxstb: It's the video from aznofazns or whatever his name was that I downloaded and then told him "It works for me, though you encoded at 30fps, which wasn't working fullscreen on gigabeat as of your posting"
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10:24:18LloreanI only tested it on Gigabeat prior to his changes.
10:24:25jhMikeSyes, yes...I know...some stupid thing I did...inevitable when redoing things like this
10:24:29linuxstbI don't think I saw that video.
10:24:32cropLinusN: yes, that could be a starting point. But what I miss is an explanation what it (e.g. IRAM) is and when should something placed there and... Ok, I could delve into the code and try to understand that but...
10:24:33LloreanIt's a video from someone else, and I'm not sure what format the audio is to encode it down.
10:24:41Lloreanlinuxstb: You never needed to, his original problem didn't exist. :)
10:25:04LloreanI'll have a link for it in about a minute 'n a half, I think
10:25:22LinusNcrop: IRAM is not a rockbox invention, it is the internal static RAM in the cpu
10:25:40B4gdereven linux calls it iram
10:25:49LinusNbut yes, it would be nice with a brief summary
10:25:52*jhMikeS wondering if dual core targets can have CPU specific memory mapped to the same address...would be nice
10:26:31LinusNi didn't even know that the cpu's had dedicated ram
10:26:51B4gderdedicated memory mapped registers I guess
10:26:58jhMikeS?? I would get rid of all the CURRENT_CORE stuff in the scheduler
10:27:02Lloreanlinuxstb, jhMikeS:
10:27:30LloreanLet me know when both of you have downloaded it, so I can delete it. Arguably he shouldn't have redistributed it (and thusly so shouldn't I)
10:27:47JdGordonwoot! customizable viewers.config works :D
10:27:58jhMikeScool, that ones working
10:28:10cropDo all the cpu's (supported by RB) have it? Or is it cpu specific? I assume that the amount is but the presence itself?
10:28:53jhMikeSthe gigabeat cpu doesn't
10:29:01linuxstbThe amount varies from about 4KB up to about 128KB. The most common size is 96KB.
10:29:10linuxstbI thought the gigbeat had around 4KB of iram?
10:29:24jhMikeSis that for the caches though?
10:29:38linuxstbI don't know. I always thought cache memory was separate.
10:30:03markunyes, it has 4KB of SRAM which we currently don't use
10:30:29markunand separate instruction and data caches
10:30:32B4gderour irams are often (always?) SRAM
10:30:33linuxstbLlorean: Downloaded.
10:30:42jhMikeSmarkun: oh? and why not?
10:31:05markunjhMikeS: what would you use it for?
10:31:18crop make it a bit faster? it's never fast enough...could help video out
10:32:00cropBut then the compilers must have an option that tells how much IRAM is present, right? Because that section may become too large.
10:32:06markunjhMikeS: well, you can try it of course
10:32:13jhMikeSof course :)
10:32:13B4gdercrop: the compiler doesn't use it, our code does
10:32:13LloreanjhMikeS isn't going to be happy until the Gigabeat is able to play .vob files straight from the DVD.
10:32:30jhMikeSstraigh up, word
10:33:07markuncrop: check the .lds files in firmware/
10:33:10cropB4gder: and what happens if a data structure is declared with IRAM attribute but there's no space left? Something gets overwritten? Or seg fault? Or...?
10:33:12JdGordonanyone want to guess how much this patch adds to the h300 bin?
10:33:20B4gdercrop: it fails to link
10:33:21LloreanJdGordon: "Too much" :-P
10:33:22jhMikeSthat's just the sort of thing "excessive cpu" is for
10:33:42JdGordonoh, wait... 3k isnt all that bad
10:33:57*JdGordon thought it was 13k :p
10:34:36jhMikeSwhy is the cpu frequency set to be 17MHz anyway on gigabeat? any reason?
10:34:49LloreanjhMikeS: It's just displaying that because scaling is disabled.
10:34:51cropB4gder: so only static objects can be placed into iram? Well, auto vars are on the stack, so probably yes.
10:35:05LloreanjhMikeS: For the brief period scaling was enabled it used to show 100/300 I believe.
10:35:06B4gdercrop: sure, or we can copy data there during run-time
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10:35:28jhMikeSeven if it's disabled it should show the right value I suppose
10:35:48LloreanShould, yes.
10:35:54jhMikeSLlorean: I seem to remember battery life suffering for it?
10:36:10LloreanScaling either didn't change it, or made it worse, I'm not sure measurements were conclusive.
10:36:19LloreanBut it didn't make it better, or at least not measurably so.
10:36:34cropB4gder: ok. And I assume that we have IRAM_SIZE defined somewhere in config.h? And if it's not present then it's defined as 0. And RB code takes care of that (if there's no space nothing gets copied there), right?
10:36:34markunstrangely enough it made it worse
10:36:47B4gdercrop: yes
10:37:16jhMikeSwhere's IRAM_SIZE?
10:37:29cropB4gder: aha! That the RB bones :-)
10:37:35JdGordonamiconn: ok, this should be easy to get working on the charcell now... no more passing ICON's around.. everything is using the identifier
10:37:44markunjhMikeS: it's in the configure script I think
10:37:51markunnot sure
10:38:13markunhm, no
10:38:18B4gderwell, strictly speaking the IRAMSIZE is in firmware/
10:38:36markunjhMikeS: btw, in that table you can ignore the "Not playing lcd off" values
10:38:40B4gderbut it _should_ be in the config-*.h files ;-)
10:38:48markunalthough there is still something strange going on
10:38:58cropAnd how does the linker know how big that may be? Is IRAM a custom "attribute"/section?
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10:39:14jhMikeSthat's a big ouch on the scaling
10:39:18B4gdercrop: the .lds file tells the linker how big it is and where it is etc
10:39:56JdGordonmidkay: still around?
10:39:56markunjhMikeS: yes, weird results
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10:40:08midkayJdGordon: yep. what's up?
10:40:24JdGordongot a new base bmp for you to play with if you want
10:40:28jhMikeSshows that rb is quite efficient too
10:40:36markunyes, compared to the OF
10:41:20jhMikeSwhatever is wrong in rb scaling seems to be wrong in OF as well since they compare nicely
10:41:23midkayJdGordon: oh dear..
10:41:53jhMikeSor maybe doing it right is still just wrong
10:41:56JdGordonthe only change is the viewer icons are on the end
10:41:58linuxstbLlorean: I don't know if this is the problem, but the audio stream in that file doesn't start on an mpeg frame boundary, which could be unique to that file (amongst all our test files) - the old code should have handled that case though.
10:41:59SiltaarI got a question about Rockbox
10:42:11markunjhMikeS: one other strange thing: after booting rockbox it consumes around 70mA while idling. If you play a song and stop it it only consumes 31 while idling.
10:42:12Siltaarwhen it is installed
10:42:18Lloreanlinuxstb: The file used to work fine until a recent change by jhMikeS.
10:42:21cropBTW: firmware/ doesn't have the standard RB header (with ascii art)
10:42:31Siltaarit's stored in the mass storage of the device right ?
10:42:33midkayJdGordon: i see, go ahead and link it or whatever..
10:42:51jhMikeSlinuxstb: where did the code check it frame boundaries before?
10:42:58 Quit PaulJam (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
10:42:58LloreanSiltaar: Rockbox itself is yes, the bootloader usually needs to replace or exist alongside a part of the original firmware though.
10:43:00SiltaarBut, isn't there also a CMOS part somewhere to launch the OS ?
10:43:17linuxstbjhMikeS: It would have been how it recovered from audio decoding errors.
10:43:20markunSiltaar: well, most have some flash rom with a bootloader
10:43:25LloreanSiltaar: CMOS is a PC term and not really applicable.
10:43:36jhMikeSmarkun: something in the pcm stuff?
10:43:44SiltaarLlorean, usually, there's smth like 2MB of ROM for the bootloader ?
10:43:53LloreanSiltaar: But yes, usually there's a bootloader, something that loads data from the disk for execution. If there's not one, we need to inject one, otherwise we just make use of the existing one.
10:44:08markunjhMikeS: looks like it. Maybe the dac is not initialised correctly?
10:44:10jhMikeSlinuxstb: ok, I'll compare and see what I stupidly neglected or changed and get it back
10:44:52jhMikeSmarkun: could be...though I wouldn't know yet without having had much datasheet time there
10:45:07LloreanjhMikeS: Can I safely delete the file from the server or are you still receiving?
10:45:19jhMikeSLlorean: I'm finished, thanks
10:45:27midkayJdGordon: you realize that the 16-bit ones are horizontal?
10:45:32SiltaarLlorean, so... in general we rarely re-program this ROM... only for bootloader developpement ? (and the lifetime of this ROM is about 100 000 writing cycle ? So no problem ?)
10:45:56JdGordonmidkay: it is?
10:46:06LloreanSiltaar: Basically, yes.
10:46:13midkaydefault_icons.6x8x16.bmp is horizontal for me..
10:46:19jhMikeSlinxus: I assumed all was ok because that soviet cartoon video has frame errors but recovers
10:46:20midkayand incomplete, it'd seem
10:46:22SiltaarLlorean, great, thanks :-)
10:46:32LloreanSiltaar: In most recent players, their bootloader loads our bootloader from disk, then our bootloader loads Rockbox (or the original firmware)
10:46:47LloreanSiltaar: In fact there are very few players right now we reprogram the ROM in.
10:46:53Siltaarso we don't touch it at all
10:46:55JdGordonmidkay: wierd... its correct here... anyway, the only difference is the pink instead of white
10:47:04midkayJdGordon: resend please
10:47:14LloreanBesides, at 100,000 writes, at one write per day, you still have over 250 years worth of updates.
10:47:38midkayJdGordon: there we go.
10:47:46markunSiltaar: I would still like to change the bootloader in flash for the Gigabeat, but we don't have enough info to do so currently.
10:47:47midkaythat's a lotta icons... :)
10:47:51jhMikeSlinuxstb: what software are you using to analyze the vids?
10:47:54Lloreanmarkun: We might
10:48:06Lloreanmarkun: Or we might be closer.
10:48:26markunLlorean: well, we can use the LCD init code from the OF, that's about the only thing missing
10:48:28LloreanAt the very least, someone's playing with it.
10:48:34SiltaarLlorean, yes, it rather better (250 years) than mean MTBF of HDDs (34 years)
10:49:05LloreanSiltaar: It's good enough that we really shouldn't worry about writing to the ROM for firmware updates, at least. :)
10:49:08markunLlorean: wow, pretty cool!
10:49:09Siltaarthat war already widely enough
10:49:34linuxstbjhMikeS: I dumped the audio stream with mplayer -dumpaudio. Then doing "file stream.dump" just tells me "data" - which means it doesn't start with an mpeg audio frame header. Then playing the stream with "madplay" gives me "sync errors" at the start of the file before it syncs and player.
10:49:38linuxstb^and plays.
10:50:05Lloreanlinuxstb: So, it's a bad file that just happened to play right before?
10:50:21linuxstbI wouldn't call it bad, afaik it's perfectly legal.
10:50:29linuxstbBut it's unusual...
10:51:08linuxstbThe same could happen if mpegplayer started playing the file from the middle.
10:51:52linuxstbi.e. audio packets in the program stream don't have to start on an audio frame boundary - incomplete frames are stored in each program stream packet.
10:52:05linuxstbBut maybe the problem is elsewhere...
10:52:12LloreanAh, so it'd need to handle that for seeking/resume anyway.
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10:52:29jhMikeSIt doesn't assume that audio frames are on a packet boundary if that's what you're saying
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10:58:38linuxstbjhMikeS: No, but libmad expects to be given whole frames to decode at once, otherwise it returns a decoding error.
10:59:19linuxstbWhich is a problem for the first frame.
11:00:28jhMikeSok...I'm not entirely clear about everything on how libmad is supposed to work so this should be workable
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11:01:29jhMikeSIs there any documentation available or is it all a "figure it out for yourself" deal?
11:04:30linuxstbI can't remember anything... I wrote the first mpa.c in Rockbox, and that was based on a sample libmad program I found on the web somewhere.
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11:06:18linuxstbI see you've changed the logic in audio_thread() though - e.g. removing the if (stream.next_frame) check before setting the pointer to the next frame.
11:06:30preglowit isn't exactly a surprise that it wants whole frames, is it?
11:06:51*jhMikeS isn't seeing where the old mpegplayer code takes any action to resync things - it just seems to use stream.next_frame just like now
11:06:52preglowanything else would mean it had to buffer internally, and that really isn't a codec job
11:07:50jhMikeSWell, libmad can seek it to the sync word anyway
11:08:45linuxstbjhMikeS: I'm not 100% sure what's going on either...
11:09:06jhMikeSpreglow: well, the video decoder does it :)
11:09:14***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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11:10:34jhMikeSlinuxstb: yeah, maybe that check should be there again...something I took out and mean to get back to, then forgot
11:10:54linuxstbThe difference between the old and new code seems to be that you're using stream->next_frame even if there is a decoding error. The old code didn't appear to do anything to the input pointer in those cases.
11:11:01jhMikeSbut that would just abort it anyway
11:11:11linuxstbYes, I don't think that check is the issue.
11:11:43linuxstbBut I don't understand why the old mpegplayer code worked at all....
11:12:49jhMikeSI'm thinking it should search out the next syncword explicitly
11:12:52linuxstbIt just seems to call mad_frame_decode() again with the same parameters. So it seems to be hidden inside libmad.
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11:13:41linuxstbWhat if you just move the "/* Adjust sizes by the frame size */" code back to after the check for errors?
11:13:54jhMikeSI will give a good going over over the pts queue and make sure I'm not just off on something too...and I'll change some guard buffer sizes to make sure
11:15:10linuxstbBTW, are you using the sim to debug? I found that very useful...
11:15:38jhMikeSno, just the target
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11:17:20jhMikeSI just tend to use the target since most of what I work on requires it
11:18:03linuxstbI rarely use the sim, but for mpegplayer, it was very useful to add lots of DEBUGFs to see what was going on.
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11:19:08PaulJamlittle question: with the wps tokenizer, are there now any restrictions (like number of lines or size) that weren't there before or have changed?
11:19:28tucozhi, isn't today the big day when we get to know what SoC projects that was accepted?
11:19:40markunand what about the speech guy..
11:19:46linuxstbI thought that was yesterday?
11:19:47scorchetucoz: go to the gsoc page and click on rockbox
11:19:55tucozscorche, thanks
11:20:17linuxstbscorche: So does "slotted" mean it's confirmed?
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11:20:23scorchewell, it was around 6-8 hours ago
11:20:37scorchelinuxstb: aye...we have 4 slots
11:20:41scorche(damn them!)
11:21:07scorche#summer-discuss was going at around 3 lines per was crazy
11:21:16linuxstbHave google published that info yet, or is it still not completely finalised?
11:21:22Lloreanmarkun: What about the speech guy?
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11:21:41scorchelinuxstb: as i said before:
11:21:43*linuxstb reads the SoC home page and sees Google have announced 900 students...
11:21:46markunLlorean: there is a conflict with another project
11:21:56scorchemarkun: *was* ;)
11:21:57Lloreanmarkun: Yeah, but we cleared that up a few days ago. ;)
11:22:06jhMikeSok, overkill guard buffers don't save it :\
11:22:19LloreanThe conflict's still on the board just because they assigned a mentor to him, but he was below the line for their project, and chose us as preference anyway.
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11:22:29safetydanPaulJam: it's possible that there's been changes to the limits
11:22:31safetydanand he's gone
11:22:34LloreanIt'd be polite of them to de-mentor him, but we can't force them to.
11:23:26linuxstbscorche: Thanks, that link wasn't accessible via the "mentor_home" page...
11:23:47scorchelinuxstb: that is why i said to go from the soc homepage ;)
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11:24:02jhMikeSI think I see something though...hrm
11:24:07markunscorche, Llorean: that's good to hear, but neither he, me or Bagder new about the conflict being resolved already..
11:24:21linuxstbscorche: That is my soc homepage ;)
11:24:47linuxstbAs I think Bagder said in their IRC - they need a SoC project to write a better SoC webapp...
11:24:49*scorche points up to "the" and abscence of "your" ;)
11:24:56scorcheabsence even
11:25:01Lloreanmarkun: I could've sworn I told Bagder about him not being above the line for the other organization, as well as expressing his preference for us..
11:25:02tucozmarkun, was the application from the speech guy only two lines, and still accepted?
11:25:20Lloreantucoz: There was discussion of it with him in comments.
11:25:23tucozi se
11:25:25scorchetucoz: ONLY THE ABSTRACT IS SHOWN
11:25:26linuxstbThat's just the abstract I think. There was a lot more info in the application.
11:25:34tucozok. got it
11:25:47scorchedidnt mean to drill it into ya ;)
11:25:48linuxstbmarkun: You still haven't persuaded him to use espeak?
11:26:01markunlinuxstb: was just about to talk about that :)
11:26:11linuxstbBut I guess a choice of realtime tts plugins would be cool....
11:26:16tucozscorche, i like highlighted yelling ;)
11:26:28markundoes anyone besides me actually like eSpeak?
11:26:44Lloreanmarkun: I have no preference so long as it works. :)
11:26:55linuxstbI don't know enough to comment
11:27:05LinusNi think espeak sounds like rockbox, i.e a bag of shit :-)
11:27:20jhMikeSmad resyncs on it's own aparently
11:27:51linuxstbjhMikeS: Yes, so it seems.
11:27:53LinusNjhMikeS: still, mad can fail to resync
11:28:14LinusNor rather, drop more frames than necessary
11:28:19linuxstbjhMikeS: Have you confirmed that's the issue, or have I lead you up the wrong path?
11:28:52markunLinusN: I think we would be limiting ourselves too much by using flite.
11:29:07LinusNmarkun: perhaps
11:29:20jhMikeSwas just getting a basis for what going on and then to procede in a systematic way
11:29:28markunit's hard to add other languages, and you need huge tables for each voice
11:29:41tucozmarkun, you said something about eSpeak being in active development and flite being not. Am i right?
11:29:49markunbut yes, because it only uses recorded samples it sounds more natural
11:30:02markuntucoz: yes, that's correct
11:30:07jhMikeSthe problem could be because it's resyncing
11:30:47jhMikeSand by that I mean the effort to do so might be messing with something
11:30:53markuntucoz: here is where he posts his latest versions:
11:31:22markunno too long ago :)
11:31:27Siltaarmarkun, so Rockbox have a candidate for real-time text-to-speech ?
11:31:40tucozmarkun, no. not really :)
11:31:40markunSiltaar: yes
11:31:58*tucoz goes to lunch
11:32:08Siltaarmarkun, I would be pleased to be introduced to him, as I could work with him 'till september
11:32:14Siltaaras school project
11:32:55markunSiltaar: hey, if you want you can both port a different TTS engine :)
11:32:55SiltaarI will adapt the Sudoku game for blind people, and so I'm interested in Rockbox voice systems
11:34:23markunSiltaar: sudoku is very limited and I think you can get much better results with prerecorded samples, don't you think?
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11:35:12markunI wonder if it's much fun playing sudoku when you are blind, you must have a good visual memory, no?
11:35:14SiltaarI'm about to use the current voice system that is far enough I think
11:35:17LloreanI think that for the most part SoC students are supposed to be working on their own, from what I understood.
11:35:31PaulJamsafetydan: thanks.
11:35:36linuxstbLlorean: That doesn't sound very "open source" though...
11:35:47Lloreanlinuxstb: I think the idea is more that they shouldn't be taking on group projects.
11:35:50linuxstbIMO, open source is all about collaboration.
11:36:00Siltaarbut my "school project mentor" is interested in real-time speech systems
11:36:00LloreanThere was something about it in the FAQ
11:36:22markunSiltaar: well, any help there would be welcome
11:36:50Lloreanlinuxstb: Ah, I misread
11:36:57markunI sometimes talk to a blind programmer who was also planning to port eSpeak to rockbox, but he is very busy.
11:36:58LloreanGroups can't apply for a project, but students should feel free to collaborate.
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11:37:35cropI have questions/suggestions rag. plugin.c
11:37:48preglowwhat does the (slotted) in the gsoc app list mean?
11:38:03Lloreanpreglow: We think it means that they've been given a guaranteed student slot.
11:38:05scorchepreglow: that they were accepted
11:38:14crop1. Line 523: shouldn't current_plugin also be "assigned" an empty string?
11:38:21scorcheLlorean: the slots are given out...they are final
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11:38:40linuxstbpreglow: The project pages linked from now list the accepted projects for each organisation.
11:38:52scorcheunless something happens like they arent actually in school, etc, they are in and others arent
11:38:56linuxstbNothing of interest to Rockbox from ffmpeg sadly though
11:39:12SiltaarAnd, to talk about how hun it is to play Sudoku when you are blind, it already exist an implementation for a blind adapted sudoku on
11:39:24preglowseems i'll be getting a t-shirt, then :-)
11:39:31crop2. Line 527: isn't it too early to set the current plugin name? Loading can still fail.
11:39:41SliMMshould i check if the colors that are passed to my function are correct or should i suppoese they are?
11:39:44Lloreanpreglow: I'm wondering what they'll look like. The '05 ones look better than the '06 IMHO.
11:40:01Siltaarthus, I plan to make an adaptative size Sudoku, composed of animal pictures and "voice"
11:40:13GodEaterhahaha Llorean is mentoring MoB ? All on his own ? :)
11:40:15Siltaarto allow blind and non-blind children to play together
11:40:24linuxstbSliMM: I think the general approach in Rockbox is for functions not to check their parameters - it's the responsibility of the calling function to pass valid values.
11:40:32PaulJamwere the wps tags for crossfeed and crossfade removed with the tokenizer update?
11:40:35preglowLlorean: never seen any of them
11:40:39crop3. Line 670: shouldn't buffer_size be also set to 0 (just for the case)? This way the caller can always safely check the available size.
11:40:48SliMMlinuxstb: ok
11:40:49LloreanGodEater: Considering who's the student, I probably don't have much to worry about at all. ;)
11:41:08preglowSliMM: definitely what he said, if every function were to check if parameters were legal, we'd be wasting tons of kb
11:41:10Lloreanpreglow: I dug up some pictures with google image search when I heard mentors were getting t-shirts. I'll do anything for a free t-shirt.
11:41:12GodEaterLlorean: very true :)
11:41:38SliMMlnuxstb: then i won't check if the function draws outside the screen either
11:41:40GodEaterLlorean: I think you can limit your mentoring to "yeah that works, well done!" :)
11:41:56linuxstbpreglow: Just so you know, I'm very happy to help with the WMA mentoring.
11:42:12linuxstbSliMM: Clipping is a separate question...
11:42:22LloreanGodEater: Well, I am likely to know who to go to with any tough questions. :)
11:42:22preglowlinuxstb: which is cool :)
11:42:28B4gderand FYI: I'm in a mail discussion with the speach guy
11:42:34linuxstbSliMM: Your function should probably clip.
11:42:37B4gdersince he's accepted by another project too
11:42:44LloreanB4gder: He did get accepted?
11:42:49preglowi know i'll vanish a couple of weeks and i would very much prefer it if i didn't have any internet related responsibilities during that time
11:42:50B4gderhe's "slotted" for us
11:42:53preglowbut we'll see
11:42:58LloreanB4gder: Google-representative told me he was more than one person under the line for the cancer place.
11:42:59B4gderbut I think he is for the other project too
11:43:02preglowit's not like it's much work anyway
11:43:16B4gderLlorean: hm, odd that's not what the cancer admin told me... :-O
11:43:30LloreanB4gder: Well, this was as of "Conflict resolution" time yesterday.
11:43:38B4gderI see
11:43:42LloreanB4gder: I got one of the google reps to check on him for me since nobody from the cancer place was there.
11:43:52SliMMlnuxstb: ok. how does the lcd_bitmap_part() function work? i mean how does it know the width /* and height */ of the image?
11:43:59B4gderI see, I mailed their admin/mentor and the student
11:44:10LloreanB4gder: He also doesn't show up here:
11:44:15cropWhy do we need iramcopy and iedata?
11:44:19scorcheB4gder: he is not listed on their page
11:44:25linuxstbSliMM: The "width" and "height" parameters...
11:44:31B4gderthen I guess he's more on our side ,-)
11:45:05linuxstbSliMM: You can probably get inspiration from the lcd driver code in firmware/drivers/lcd-16bit.c
11:45:22SiltaarB4gder, in Llorean if you miss someone to handle Real-time text-to-speech I could / might offer to help, if needed.
11:45:46B4gderSiltaar: thanks! Markun is the assigned mentor for that project
11:45:50scorche will also hopefully be handy for the students as well =)
11:45:53SliMMis fb data a 2D array?
11:47:09markunlinuxstb: someone is going to speed up GCC, that's nice
11:49:26scorchemarkun: yeah...i saw that...looked interesting...there were a few other interesting projects, but they escape me atm
11:50:03SiltaarMarkun, I will speak about Real-time text-to-speech with my school mentor, and it seems that I can do the job _IF_ needed.
11:50:13LloreanI wonder who got the most students.
11:50:15SliMMvoid (*lcd_bitmap_part)(const fb_data *src, int src_x, int src_y,
11:50:17SliMM int stride, int x, int y, int width, int height);
11:50:43SliMMit doesn't specify the width of the image itself
11:50:46scorcheLlorean: they said it a few times, but i cant remember...statistics are coming soon
11:50:55B4gderapache got many...
11:51:07Lloreanscorche: Ah, I had just noticed eclipse got 21 and was curious what the max was.
11:51:25B4gder24 if I counted right
11:51:26scorchei think one of the BSDs got around 25
11:52:36scorcheKDE was a big one
11:52:47cropAny comments to my comments to plugin.c?
11:52:57linuxstbSliMM: "stride" is the full width of the input bitmap.
11:52:58B4gderbut those projects are huge of course
11:53:07crop..except from "make a patch"? :-)
11:53:11SliMMlinuxstb: oh
11:53:12linuxstbSliMM: The "GraphicsAPI" wiki page may also help
11:53:35SliMMlinuxstb: i got it, thanks
11:53:43LloreanI'm honestly pretty happy with that we got 4.
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11:53:58scorchefor a first time org, that isnt bad, or so i gather
11:54:12linuxstbYes, I would expect google to limit the number of slots for first-time orgs.
11:54:26B4gderyes it makes sense
11:54:33scorchethat was teh primary reason we got that many...i mean look at scumm...7 ;) only got 2.
11:54:54B4gdereven subversion only got 4
11:54:58GodEaterI'm pretty bummed our Viewports didn't get accepted - I was looking forward to that
11:55:18*scorche would like a couple more slots though for obvious reasons... *cough*
11:55:40B4gderscorche: you were my tshirt chance! ;-)
11:55:44linuxstbscorche: Are you still going to get an av300?
11:56:00LloreanIt's clearly all about the t-shirts.
11:56:07markunwow, python got 34 slots!
11:56:19scorchelinuxstb: likely, but it is quite a but further down on the priority list....have to look at getting a job now..
11:56:30linuxstbmarkun: Scary, that's a whole bar full of students...
11:57:08scorcheB4gder: so you were going to be my mentor?....would have been fun! ;)
11:57:14peturB4gder: does the webapp provide anything to assign backup-mentors?
11:57:21scorchemarkun: im sure it doesnt hurt the guido works for google
11:57:22B4gderpetur: nope
11:57:53B4gderwell, subversion has _loads_ of google employees...
11:58:04B4gder(and got 4)
11:58:32B4gdersome of the gsoc admins on google even is involved in that
11:58:59B4gderI guess they could't assign too many then as it would look bad ,-)
11:59:04LloreanWell "Google" only got 5, though that's the dumping ground I think.
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11:59:22LloreanNone of them look like "Assign to Google" projects though
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12:01:26GodEaterwhat do the little red flags on a project mean ?
12:01:33markunNeuros got 5
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12:01:54scorchei started the logging for #summer-discuss this morning, and it is about 1.12 megs (as a txt file) from less than 14 hours..
12:02:11GodEateris that an open channel ?
12:02:33scorcheon slashnet
12:02:48scorchebut im sure it wont be near what it was today, and will die down in the near future
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12:05:07markunThis could be interesting for rockbox:
12:05:27smiler777hi friends! i have some questions about ipod video 30Gb with latest rockbox. can you help me?
12:05:31jhMikeSoy, now I got it...just reset stream.error for recoverable errors too
12:05:31B4gdermarkun: indeed!
12:05:43B4gderjhulst should find that very interesting
12:06:58smiler777hi friends! i have some questions about ipod video 30Gb with latest rockbox. can you help me?
12:07:07Lloreansmiler777: No need to repeat yourself.
12:07:09linuxstbsmiler777: Just ask
12:07:12Lloreansmiler777: You should instead just ask the question.
12:08:00smiler7771. How long the ipod can working without charging? (sorry for bad english - im from russia)
12:08:30SliMMsmiler777: about 3 hours
12:08:45LloreanSliMM: Closer to 6, usually
12:08:51LloreanSliMM: See the IpodRuntime page.
12:09:04SliMMllorean: mine works for about 3 hours
12:09:06cropjhMikeS: (excuse me please for repeating the question, you may have missed it) Why do we need iramcopy and iedata?
12:09:12scorchesmiler777: it depends on the type of ipod as well...(ie flash based or hard drive)
12:09:20LloreanSliMM: And your point is?
12:09:34LloreanSliMM: Have you done a runtime comparison between Rockbox and the original firmware under identical conditions?
12:09:38SliMMscorche: 30gb ipod video he said
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12:09:56SliMMllorean: i'm not comparing
12:10:06LloreanSliMM: Then please don't assume that your runtime is average.
12:10:37SliMMllorean: it runs for six hours if it just sits in your pocket
12:10:56SliMMllorean: but it usually doesn't
12:11:10LloreanWell, the standard for comparing times is "backlight off, just playing music"
12:11:14smiler777Friends! im relash my ipod to rockbox yesterday.. He play about 3 hours. is it normal?
12:11:41LinusNcrop: in the plugins you mean?
12:11:46smiler777the backlight was off, device - locked
12:11:47LloreanSliMM: So please, if you're talking about pressing buttons, be clear, the backlight is a LARGE drain.
12:11:57LinusNcrop: or in general?
12:12:11Lloreansmiler777: Many, many factors can decrease battery life.
12:12:12scorchesmiler777: normal for a battery that is far from its top performance, but generally, rockbox gets a longer would be best to test for yourself on your own battery
12:12:17 Quit PaulJam_ (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
12:12:59cropLinusN: in general and also in the plugins.
12:13:02markunsmiler777: the ipod runtime for rockbox is pretty bad compared to the OF unfortunately
12:13:05SliMMsmiler777: that is for just listenig to music
12:13:24SliMMsmiler777: the second question?
12:13:26LinusNcrop: the (i)data section contains initialized variables
12:13:30scorcheSliMM: also, keep in mind that those were taken at various times and may not have been tested under reccent optimizations
12:13:48cropLinusN: and also my three points about plugin.c. Do the make any sense? Or do I understand everything wrong?
12:13:51linuxstbcrop: IRAM is located at a different address to SDRAM. So when the plugin is built, the data/code that needs to be in IRAM is stored in those sections, and then copied to the correct address. Otherwise you would get binary files many MB in size (due to the gap between the two memory addresses).
12:13:51LinusNso when the application starts, it needs to be filled with the initialized values
12:13:56SliMMscorche: i'll keep that in mind
12:14:30LinusNthe (i)datacopy section contains the initial data for the (i)data section
12:14:57LloreanSliMM: Ideally any battery benchmark should be directly compared to the original firmware (which is hard to benchmark) because battery condition is a large, large influence.
12:15:09cropLinusN: and why is copy zeroed out after copying it to iram?
12:15:24markun5 out of 7 projects for VIM are mentored by Bram Moolenaar :)
12:15:43LinusNcrop: where?
12:15:45linuxstbcrop: Because that's part of the BSS (zero-initialsed section) section of the main binary.
12:15:46markunhe works for Google anyway
12:16:00scorchemarkun: a bunch of people were quite fond of the eclipse/vim project
12:16:22LinusNcrop: we don't need the idatacopy section after copying it to the data section, so we reuse it for bss
12:17:06*LinusN won't get a t-shirt..... :-(
12:17:44smiler7772. about video files.. what tupes of files the ipod can played? my ipod "see" only mpeg and when the play is on - FPS is very smal - about 5 per sec. Should i convert video to some speciall format?
12:17:47cropLinusN: I must re-read what you said and make a little sketch to get it. Thanks!
12:18:06peturAs Google recommends assigning a second mentor, there must be a way to let them know the names?
12:18:08cropWhat about the three points? (sorry for nagging...)
12:18:16LinusNcrop: the concept is simple, but we abuse it a little in rockbox
12:18:35Lloreanpetur: There's no apparent way at least. Maybe the forms will change now that assignments are set.
12:18:46Lloreanpetur: But I think the "mentor" position is more or less informal outside of the paperwork.
12:18:56LinusNcrop: what tree points?
12:19:06 Quit petur ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
12:19:15markunsmiler777: yes, mpegplayer is all we got
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12:19:22SliMMsmiler777: video support on ipod vide is pretty bad
12:19:27markunand the ipod's hardware is not very fast
12:19:36scorchepetur: gstein was extolling a lot about its shortcomings too, but he was just mainly passing the buck ;)
12:19:44LinusNcrop: ah, i see
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12:20:02markunsmiler777: there is a special chip which does the video decoding in the apple firmware, but we haven't managed to use it
12:20:13SliMMsmiler777: you can watch video with the original firmware because it uses a special chip for video decoding, not because it is better/faster
12:20:27scorche"Google engineering manager"
12:21:07petursaw they mentioned they are locking down the webapp to prevent changing the ranking...
12:21:12LinusNcrop: 1) why would that be necessary?
12:22:11LinusN2) again, why does it matter?
12:23:20cropLinusN: just to have all the vars as consistent as possible at any time during program execution
12:23:43LinusN3) sounds sensible
12:24:00LinusNcrop: that would only be a waste of code imho
12:25:45linuxstbpetur: Maybe google don't want to have to send out T-shirts to backup mentors...
12:26:13LloreanCurse those stingy T-shirt hoarding....
12:26:31LinusNi'll make my own t-shirt :-(
12:26:37B4gderwe could have a rsoc and only hand out shirts!
12:27:11scorchewell, they wanted a main one for a few reasons....1 single person is what works best in these situations (they should already be working with the community....1 person reviews them, etc
12:27:27cropLinusN: maybe. But p is copied to current_plugin anyway. But too early IMHO. Emptying current_plugin is not strictly necessary but I'm an idealist...
12:27:30scorcheB4gder: rdcoc?
12:27:42scorche(devcon) ;)
12:28:09LinusNcrop: we can't afford idealistic code in rockbox, but yes, we can move the copying
12:28:12B4gderbut... does that mean we can't just talk nonsense and drink beer during devcon?
12:28:35*scorche wished he could afford a trip to sweden
12:29:06*Llorean thinks we should try to have a DevCon-West.
12:29:20B4gderLinusN: rayob? (all year)
12:29:33LinusNB4gder: perfect
12:29:45scorcheLlorean: sure! =)
12:29:49SliMMdo you think that
12:29:50SliMMx1 = min(max(x1, 0), LCD_WIDTH); x2 = max(0, min(x2, LCD_WIDTH));
12:29:52SliMMy1 = min(max(y1, 0), LCD_HEIGHT); y2 = max(0, min(y2, LCD_HEIGHT));
12:29:53SliMMis fast enough?
12:29:59scorchehave the webcams of the 2 devcons projected onto screens, etc
12:30:44markunSliMM: fast enough for what?
12:31:00scorcheLlorean: i am all for one...we really should plan one
12:31:03SliMMfor drawing safetly on the screen
12:31:13Lloreanscorche: Lostlogic expressed interest in one last year.
12:31:14Siltaar\away lunch time
12:31:22scorcheand quickly, as it would be good to have them at the same time
12:31:27cropLinusN: is the value of end_addr (in plugin header) staticly compiled into each plugin? Why isn't it just set to plugin size?
12:31:28Siltaargrrr.... why does we have a \ and /
12:32:20markunSliMM: what are you working on?
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12:32:36LinusNcrop: because the bss section begins at end_addr, doesn't it?
12:32:47SliMMmarkun: opacity :))
12:33:03pondlifeNice when something begins at end_addr, no?
12:33:13LinusN /kick pondlife
12:33:24markunSliMM: and you want all pixels which are beyond the screen to be drawn on the borders?
12:33:53SliMMno, just not to be drawn at all
12:34:08markunthen what is your code for if you skip them anyway?
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12:35:07SliMMif i draw a rectangle starting from x1 = -5 to x2 = 340, without that code or a similar one, wouldn't rockbox crash?
12:35:32B4gderbut you want if()s not just clipping the values
12:36:21B4gderwith that code you'll gather all outside-values to the border
12:36:24markunSliMM: ah, like that. I don't think it would crash but you would have to check the code
12:36:54cropLinusN: I don't understand what you want to tell. I mean the line 568 in plugin.c. Why is the absolute address compared? And how can this work? This can only work if the end addr is statically computed. I.e. dynamic plugin loading is impossible?
12:36:56LinusNB4gder: that depends on if the check is for each pixel or for the boundaries of the rectangle
12:36:57markunB4gder: I thought it was per pixel too but it's just for rectangles
12:37:18*B4gder shuts up and stands in corner
12:38:24SliMMwell, i'm done with the basic functions
12:39:14LinusNcrop: end_addr is created by the linker
12:39:23SliMMshould i use LCD_WIDTH-1?
12:39:27markunSliMM: I just looked at the code and you don't have to check it yourself
12:39:43SliMMgreat :)
12:39:51markuncheck lcd_vline in firmware/drivers/lcd-16bit.c
12:40:22SliMMbut still, no need of drawing pixels outside the screen
12:40:33markunno, it doesn't
12:40:57pondlifecrop: You might find useful.
12:41:00cropLinusN: well as load_addr? Now I'm starting to get it... So each plugin is linked with the rest of RB's memory layout in mind?
12:41:13SliMMare the pixels numberd (horizontally) from 0 to LCD_WIDTH-1?
12:41:25LinusNall plugins are compiled and linked to run at a fixed address
12:41:26markunI think so
12:41:53croppondlife: thanks. But there is not much useful info there. At least for what we're talking about.
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12:42:11pondlifeI was thinking maybe what you're learning could be put in there..
12:42:34pondlifeUnless it's already wikied
12:42:59cropLinusN: yes, that's what I mean. And dynamic loading (at a var address) would be much trouble I guess? (addr adjustment and such). Or was it made because of KISS?
12:43:12LinusNfar too much trouble
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12:44:04*LinusN wanders off to eat
12:44:28cropLinusN: and plugin buffer starts where codec buffer ends and goes to the end of the available memory?
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12:44:38preglowcrop: might not be too much trouble, actually, but someone is yet to try it
12:44:48preglowif a plugin is compiled -fpic, it might work out easy enough
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12:45:34croppreglow: but if we don't need it that little trouble is still not worth. But yes, it could be a matter of just setting some base register
12:45:44Mode"#rockbox +o scorche " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
12:46:03preglowcrop: we will need it sooner or later, and in some cases, already do
12:46:05Topic"Please read before speaking: | Rockbox Devcon 2007 - | Gathering interest for a Devcon-West. See Dev-ML for more details. PM scorche if interested." by scorche (i=scorche@rockbox/administrator/scorche)
12:46:30Mode"#rockbox -o scorche " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
12:46:33preglowcrop: like the way the way an audio codec and voice codec need to coexist, while both are linked to the same address space
12:46:53pondlifeWooh, Intercontinental DevCon?
12:47:11SliMMmarkun: what number is the last pixel that is visible on the screen? LCD_WIDTH or LCD_WIDTH-1??
12:47:15scorchepondlife: well, we will see...
12:47:44croppreglow: but that's still static. or do you mean that if we had dynamic loading we wouldn't need to swap them?
12:47:53linuxstbpreglow: I thought there was talk about putting the voice codec in the core?
12:47:53markunSliMM: -1
12:48:03preglowlinuxstb: sure, talk :)
12:48:20SliMMmarkun: thanks
12:48:22preglowcrop: the last
12:48:45preglowcrop: the only thing we'd need to swap then is iram, which is still a shared resource in that case
12:48:53preglowbut statically linking a voice codec might also be clever
12:49:12JdGordonaliask: daurn, should we do devcon-melb to join in ?
12:49:47safetydanJdGordon: and I'll host my own personal devcon-brisbane :)
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12:51:31linuxstbCould a voice codec work without needing iram?
12:51:53pondlifeOn some targets, but probably not all.
12:51:59pondlifeAt least, not MP3
12:54:23preglowit might not really have to
12:54:25pondlifelinuxstb: If you have a PP target around, you could maybe try it?
12:54:43preglowspeex, for example, is supposed to fit in really little iram these days, and i believe the overhead of swapping out the iram it uses might be worth it
12:55:26pondlifeIs speex using as little CPU as MP3 now?
12:55:40preglowright no, hell no
12:55:43preglowbut it needs optimising
12:55:46linuxstbpondlife: I think I tried running codecs without IRAM once on my ipod - IIRC, the boost ratio hardly changed for icode, and didn't drop very much for idata.
12:55:57preglowit hardly uses any iram, mallocs extensively, and has no asm to speak of
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12:56:14linuxstbSounds like it needs some love...
12:56:26preglowi'm planning to stroke it vigorously, given time to do so
12:56:33linuxstbAre the mallocs in the codec itself, or the Ogg part?
12:56:35cropWhat is placed to iram? Some data that is intensively read/written?
12:56:38preglowcode itself, afaik
12:56:41*pondlife shudders at the thought of a stroked codec
12:56:42preglowcrop: aye
12:56:59croppreglow: but not the code, right?
12:57:06linuxstbYes, code as well.
12:57:10preglowcrop: sure, that too, but it doesn't benefit as much
12:57:18preglowcrop: most of our current targets have code caches
12:57:27preglowcrop: in some cases only that, like for coldfire
12:57:36preglowcrop: in which case data iram benefits massively
12:58:59cropAnother question: I thought that the stack size is defined somewhere in config.h. But I see a fixed value in
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12:59:17croppreglow: now I'm goinng to re-read what Linus told about plugin loading
13:00:16croppreglow: another question: what does the asm instruction *(.bss*) do?
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13:01:48linuxstbcrop: That looks like a linker instruction, not asm
13:01:58linuxstbI'm guessing you're looking at a .lds file?
13:02:36croplinuxstb: yes.
13:03:02linuxstbIt's just a pattern that matches section names (which are generated by gcc) and uses it to create the binary.
13:03:10cropI assume something like "place everything you've collected so far for bss here"
13:03:46linuxstbYes - something like "put all the bss sections here."
13:04:52cropAnd another question (I'm not kicked yet? :-): pluginbuf is at the end. Why isn't PLUGINSIZE computed as MEM_SIZE - pluginbuf?
13:05:49linuxstbIsn't it the other way around? i.e. pluginbuf is computed as MEMSIZE-PLUGINSIZE?
13:05:51cropIf PLUGINSIZE is defined too high the linker will complain (I hope), but if it's too low we'll waste space
13:06:46croplinuxstb: in, I see (at the end) that pluginbuf is set to what is the current adr.
13:07:30cropBut I'm not very experienced in such things, I use my common sense
13:09:14linuxstbStart looking at the definition of DRAMSIZE, then look at ENDAUDIOADDR, then ENDADDR
13:09:18***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
13:10:12linuxstb"pluginbuf" is set to ENDADDR
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13:13:09croplinuxstb: yes. But PLUGINSIZE?
13:13:15JdGordonamiconn: OK, I have charcell compiling and it should be able to draw icons now, can I leave the custom icon part out for now?
13:14:02croplinuxstb: is it somewhere in crt0?
13:14:16aliaskJdGordon: I'm in on a melbourne meet up
13:15:06JdGordon:) i was joking, but unless that weekend is exams time (which i tihnk it is) im up for it
13:15:16JdGordonif its at the belgium beer garden :D
13:15:48aliaskOoh classy
13:16:12aliaskSorry, i didn't read the backstory :P
13:16:35preglowalways with the belgian beer!
13:16:57linuxstbcrop: "PLUGINSIZE" is "PLUGIN_BUFFER_SIZE", which I'm guessing is in the target-specific config.h file.
13:17:04aliaskI'm supprised it's taken this long for p.etur to pipe up
13:17:42pondlifeHe's in Stockholm that weekend
13:18:52aliaskI was refering to the beer talk, he wakes up pretty quickly if you mention it :P
13:19:07croplinuxstb: that I also assume. But it also confuses me since PLUGINSIZE should be computed, not defined.
13:19:19scorchei would not be surprised if he had his client to highlight him when "beer" is said
13:19:37pondlifebeer beer beer beer beer.. brandy.
13:19:40preglowlike any sane man has
13:19:51Lloreancrop: The plugin buffer size is intended as a maximum allowed size.
13:19:56cropcrop: there can be a mismatch between the defined value and the real size of the pluginbuffer
13:20:11linuxstbcrop: No, "PLUGIN_BUFFER_SIZE" _is_ the real size of the plugin buffer.
13:20:30linuxstbIt's defined on a per-target basis, depending on available RAM and maybe other features of the hardware.
13:21:09linuxstb(in firmware/export/config-*.h)
13:21:19croplinuxstb: then there's a possibility of wasting memory (see above) if PLUGIN_SIZE is defined too low.
13:21:44*pondlife whispers something about CODEC_IRAM_ORIGIN/_SIZE being defined in the wrong place...
13:21:56linuxstbcrop: I can't see how.
13:22:52linuxstbPLUGINSIZE is simply set to be equal to PLUGIN_BUFFER_SIZE (at the top of
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13:25:09JdGordonanyone got an archos player here?
13:25:35LloreanJdGordon: If it has to do with the icons, doesn't the sim work?
13:26:10JdGordonit does, I dont have svn sim here... is the cursor the only actual icon used?
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13:26:16JdGordonapart from the playlist viewer
13:26:20aliasksafetydan: I don't envy your task of syncing that lang cleanup patch - I tried a little while ago and failed miserably. (read: got lazy and never finished it)
13:26:45linuxstbpondlife: Yes, that seems very wrong...
13:26:46safetydanaliask: yeah it's not fun...
13:26:50croplinuxstb: ah, I think I see now. First, all the sizes are defined, then the starting address of DRAM is computed and then the starting addrs of the other sections are computed
13:27:20pondlifelinuxstb: Thsoe should be in the config- files as mentioned in
13:27:34croppondlife: yes, I think those defs should be moved to target tree must also use them.
13:28:52pondlifesafetydan: Good luck... what's stopping it being committed as soon as you've got it synced?
13:28:59preglowwhat's keeping the lang cleanup from commit, btw?=
13:29:18safetydanIt's a never ending task what with people always adding features :)
13:29:20JdGordonanyone know where the glyphs for the charcell icons are defined? is the order of the enum in player/icons.c important?
13:29:51safetydanI think the big thing is that it's going to break a lot of things
13:29:59safetydanvoice files, every translation, etc.
13:30:00PaulJamJdGordon: shouldn't pressing PLAY in the contxt menus bring you to the wps instead of entering the selected submenu?
13:30:15safetydanthat, and the build script doesn't handle the NONE part
13:30:31preglowsafetydan: so what? we can't really care about that
13:30:43safetydanFS #6652 is the big hold up
13:30:44preglowif that's what's keeping it from being commited, i say just commit it
13:31:08JdGordonPaulJam: probably...
13:31:25safetydanmy perl-fu is weak, so the next best thing for me to try is to get the patch back in sync
13:31:32*petur returns from lunch and gets megatriggers from beer discussion
13:32:11pondlifeGood job it wasn't before lunch
13:32:15preglowwell, i've been known to do perl
13:32:20preglowbut i know nothing about the lang build system
13:34:29SliMMwhen using LCD_UNPACK_GREEN let's say, what's the maximum value i can get?
13:36:21LinusNcurrently 63, i think
13:36:45LinusNbut it depends on the target
13:36:48SliMMthat's for LCD_UNPACK_GREEN_LCD
13:37:18JdGordonSliMM: iirc, there is a macro to go from 255->max_supported
13:37:41linuxstbSliMM: LCD_MAX_GREEN
13:38:19SliMMlinuxstb: and what does LCD_UNPACK_GREEN_LCD do then?
13:39:38SliMMwith LCD_UNPACK_GREEN i get a 8-bit value, but i don't know whether it's 255 or 252 (63*4 / 63 << 2)
13:39:40linuxstbSorry, there are no such macros... "RGB_UNPACK_GREEN" gives you an 8-bit value, "RGB_UNPACK_GREEN_LCD" gives you the native LCD depth.
13:40:14SliMMyes, sorry, RGB instead of LCD prefix :">
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13:40:37SliMMi always type it wrong
13:41:04linuxstbYou can see the definitions in firmware/export/lcd.h
13:41:13SliMMok, thanks
13:44:13safetydanwell ajbrec.ajz is 246432 bytes with the current lang v2 cleanup patch
13:44:24safetydanwhich is around 2000 bytes saved I think
13:44:29safetydannot bad
13:44:33safetydananyway, night all
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13:45:27 Part TrueJournals
13:46:13cropWhat does _iramcopy = LOADADDR(.iram); in do? Doesn't it make iramcopy to point to the same adr as iramstart?
13:47:38linuxstbcrop: Maybe the manual would help :)
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13:54:20amiconnSliMM: All rockbox lcd drivers do proper clipping, no need to do it yourself
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13:56:31LinusNcrop: LOADADDR() gives you the address where the data is loaded by the linker, i.e the address of the copy
13:56:57croplinuxstb: from what I read in the manual (tnaks for the link!) I think I'm right.
13:57:41croplinuxstb: but that doesn' matter since I wass looking at the wrong .lds! :-))) I was looking at but the right file is Oh!
13:58:07*Nico_P 's application for the SoC was accepted :)
13:58:43cropIn the app, iramcopy is set to the same address as iram. That's why I didn't understand why we make memcpy(iramstart, iramcopy, iram_size); in plugin.c.
13:59:03cropBut for plugins this is OK.
13:59:34amiconniramcopy is never the same as iram
13:59:42amiconnThat would indeed not make sense
14:00:52cropamiconn: but in we have _iramcopy = LOADADDR(.iram);
14:01:28cropamiconn: isn't is the same value as iramstart?
14:01:34amiconnThat doesn't make them identicaö
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14:02:23cropamiconn: what do you mean? They are different symbols, I see. But they point to the same address, no?
14:03:29ZagorNotice: Server upgrade in progress, including apache. cgiirc clients may get disconnected.
14:03:31cropSo the arrays point to the same memory (if we're in the app; that doesn't hold for plugins)
14:04:04cropamiconn: since in plugins the symbols point to different addrs (see
14:05:19cropWhich (if I'm right) raises the question about why do we have iramcopy in the app?
14:05:38linuxstbiramcopy will be for initialised IRAM data in the main rockbox binary.
14:05:44cropI.e. why do we need it at all?
14:06:26LinusNcrop: it is needed when rockbox is flashed
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14:08:59JdGordonare fonts broken in the gigabeat sim?
14:09:02linuxstbLinusN: Why only when flashed?
14:10:10LinusNlinuxstb: because there is no need for a duplicate since the binary is always reloaded from disk
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14:11:01linuxstbLinusN: I think I missed something, what's duplicated?
14:11:20LinusNthe datacopy section contains the initial data of the data section
14:11:31 Quit crop (Client Quit)
14:11:42LinusNso the data section can be correctly initialized
14:11:53linuxstbI thought we were talking about the iram stuff...
14:12:05 Join crop [0] (i=c27f0812@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
14:12:58cropBut am I right that iramcopy used in "memcpy(iramstart, iramcopy, iram_size);" (plugin.c:707) is the symbol from, not the one from
14:13:07LinusNcrop: yes
14:13:23LinusNlinuxstb: of course, my bad
14:13:29cropHua, now the world is round again :-)
14:14:12LinusNi would like to have the lds files in the target tree
14:14:37LinusNone for each target
14:14:48pondlifeAnd get rid of that stuff in playback.c...
14:14:59cropLinusN: if not the lds, then at least all the symbols (XXX_SIZE). They are duplicated now (in
14:15:12LinusNthat too
14:15:19amiconncrop: all iram section addresses are always different from their copy. That's because they're loaded to dram and then copied
14:15:32amiconnLOADADDR() is *not* an identity operator
14:16:19linuxstbBut isn't there a danger of errors if we have many copies of very similar files? I don't think the .lds is that hard to follow, especially if some of the constants are moved to config-*.h
14:17:31LinusNlinuxstb: perhaps, but i kind of like the targets to be more self-contained in some respects
14:17:37cropamiconn: I don't understand. Do you mean that after _iramcopy = LOADADDR(.iram); ( iramcopy will not point to the same address as iramstart?
14:18:24LinusNiramstart is not the load address of .iram
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14:18:52LinusNthe load address is where the data copy is loaded
14:20:10LinusNthat's the purpose of the "AT ( iramcopy)" stuff
14:21:27LinusNthe LOADADDR() operator in this case will give you the start address of the iramcopy section
14:23:36cropLinusN: yes, but in we don't have AT(...)
14:24:49LinusNcrop: i thought we were discussing
14:26:09cropLinusN: yes. I looked at the wrong .lds ( for a long time :-)
14:26:43LinusNit's done differently in, with the AT clause at the end of the .iram section definition
14:26:47linuxstbcrop: Maybe looking at a map file will help - e.g. apps/plugins/pacbox/ (a plugin which uses IRAM). This puts real numbers to the different variables.
14:27:07linuxstb(apps/plugins/... in your build directory)
14:27:11LinusNi'm not sure anymore what crop is trying to understand
14:29:48LinusNbut i still think the lds files would be simpler without the preprocessor magic to hide the iram away from the targets that have none
14:29:55cropLinusN: I was confused by the statement memset(...) in plugin.c. I thout that it copies a buffer to itself since iramcopy is the same as iramstart
14:30:24LinusNmemset() fills with zeroes, i assume you mean memcpy() ?
14:30:34cropLinusN: not memset, memcpy
14:30:53LinusNiramcopy is not the same as iramstart
14:30:57linuxstbcrop: You realise that that function is called from the plugin itself - so the variables being passed are those from the plugin, which are from
14:31:00cropLinusN: ah, you understand me faster than I type .-)
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14:31:30croplinuxstb: yes
14:31:52LinusNwhat makes you believe that iramcopy is the same as iramstart?
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14:32:40cropLinusN: isn't it? I mean Then I should learn assembler/linker
14:33:07LinusNcrop: does it in exactly the same way as
14:33:33LinusNexcept that the AT clause is in different places of the section declaration
14:33:56LinusNand why do you even care about
14:34:30LinusNcrop: and i have tried to explain this twice now
14:34:37JdGordonguys FS #7013 (loadable icons) is ready imo for commiting... anyone want to have a looksie before i commit?
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14:34:59JdGordonamiconn: can you have a look at the charcell part of the patch please?
14:35:03linuxstbcrop: And the map files prove they are different - you can see the actual values of the two variables.
14:35:05elinenbeSuper deal on the gigabeat:
14:35:07JdGordonit works in the sim, but dont know if its good enouh
14:35:18elinenbeI just got one for $90 shipped −− for a 40 GB MP3 player!
14:35:24cropLinusN: because I didn't know (but now do) that iramcopy and iramstart that are used in plugin.c are defined in Sorry Linus, me being stupid
14:36:28*linuxstb wonders if ship to Europe
14:36:49elinenbemaybe do a US order and have someone ship?
14:38:17JdGordonholy cow thats cheap
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14:39:31JdGordonif they dont ship to aus (and my friends want to take up the offer) would anyone in the us mind playing middle man for me?
14:39:40daurnJdGordon: i'd drop by ;)
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14:52:05perldiverits not anymore on the officedepot site
14:53:02perldiverit is
14:53:08perldiverdoesnt come up in search though
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14:56:38cropJdGordon: in your last commit, I think you've made a copy/paste error. In misc.c:903, it should be lcd_remote_setfont
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15:06:54perldiverok got one as well
15:07:15perldiverat seems a lot of people buying it from fatwallet forums
15:07:53amiconnJdGordon: Not now, but I might be able to check out your patch tonight
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15:09:22***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
15:09:35cropamiconn: why do we need iramcopy in For flashing (as Linus said but I'm not sure whether we we talking the same frequency then)?
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15:11:46amiconnThe core works very similar to plugins wrt iram
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15:12:25amiconnThe bootloader loads the binary into ram, and one of the first things it does is copying its iram parts to iram
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15:12:47amiconnThere is no difference in iram handling whether the core is in flash or in ram
15:13:30cropamiconn: thanks!
15:13:36daurnhey, that gigabeat
15:13:38daurnnice price
15:13:40daurni'll grab one
15:13:46daurnanyone in usa that can ship to me?
15:14:08cropamiconn: BTW: could you correct the copy/paste typo in the last commit by JdGordon?
15:14:09amiconnThere are just 2 minor differences regarding dram handling, one is that when running from dram, the iram section can be reused (for bss, or in case of the core, stack) once it's copied, and the other is that the .data section doesn't need to be copied when runnning from ram
15:14:58cropamiconn: does the .data section contain initialised or uninitialised data?
15:15:33 Quit qwx (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
15:15:46amiconnInitialized. Uninitialized is .bss. There are 4 standard section names: .text, .data, .rodata and .bss
15:16:33amiconnFor the core dram/iram init operations are done in crt0.S, but for plugins it's done in the plugin itself
15:16:35cropIs there some method to initialise structure members not by order but by names? The initialisation of the plugin_api structure is very fragile IMO
15:17:30amiconnWe do it this way because plugins using iram need to stop playback (because they share iram with the codecs), and the plugin needs to have a chance to ask whether stopping is okay _before_ actually doing the iram copy
15:17:59cropamiconn: I asked because I wanted to know if memset(iramcopy, 0, iram_size); in plugin.c is necessary. It is.
15:18:58amiconnIt is. It clears the .bss part that is shared with iramcopy
15:19:19amiconnGcc relies on .bss being cleared, placing zero-initalized data there
15:19:28 Join Forte [0] (
15:19:35Fortemy mini is tempermental
15:20:46cropamiconn: you mean .data part? iramcopy is in the .data section in
15:22:22Forteshe just played through a whole song
15:22:27*Forte pats mini on the back
15:23:21 Quit midgey ()
15:23:39*Forte is happy
15:23:42daurnanyone in america that can ship a couple of aussies a gigabeat?
15:23:51*Forte kinda has 2 working ipods
15:25:09Forteand it shut off
15:25:15bluebrotherForte: you mini is female?
15:25:20Fortetempermental piece of shit
15:25:27Forteall gadgets and cars are female
15:25:35Forteit sounds less gay when you talk about thme
15:25:41bluebrotherah, that explains the temperament
15:26:10Fortei think its a battery problem with the mini
15:26:13Fortei fixed the video
15:26:15Forteit works great
15:26:47markundaurn: maybe toffe can buy some for you, he's used to shipping Gigabeat's abroad :)
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15:28:51markunForte: what about the PC's that were destroyed during the installation?
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15:30:05cropmarkun: may be you could correct the typo in the last commit of misc.c? It doesn't worth a patch.
15:30:58Forteso what music you lot listen to?
15:31:00markuncrop: ok, let me check
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15:31:41markunForte: mogwai, autechre, elliott smith, david bowie, amon tobin, ...
15:31:57markuncrop: you?
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15:32:03markuneh, that was for Forte :)
15:32:30markuncrop: what was the typo?
15:33:16Fortei listen to weird al, nightwish, bowling for soup
15:33:21cropmarkun: the second added set_font should be set_remote_font
15:33:22Fortelittle bit of everything
15:34:06markunForte: well, I could have told you the same. Doesn't tell me much.
15:34:35markunso you listen to a bit of "happy hardcore" for example?
15:34:35cropmarkun: line 903 should be lcd_remote_setfont
15:34:44markuncrop: yes, I'll fix it
15:36:13 Quit Kapez (Remote closed the connection)
15:37:00markuncrop: done
15:40:52JdGordonmarkun: ah thanks for fixing that
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15:50:20markunkkurbjun: I wanted to ask you something all morning and now I forgot :)
15:51:16markunsomething about the Gigabeat hardware init or bootloader.. hm..
15:52:28kkurbjun:), well while we are asking questions do you know what is stored in the first 100 bytes of DRAM?
15:53:03markunnothing is stored there
15:53:07kkurbjunon the gigabeat it really does not like that section to be overwritten
15:53:25markunIt was added by someone as some kind of precaution but it can be removed
15:53:58markunso you say it needs to be there?
15:54:04markunwhat happens if you overwrite it?
15:54:58kkurbjunI have not tried changing the linker script, I should see if that fixes the problem I was running into. If I overwrite it the screen washes out and it fails to boot.
15:55:36kkurbjunIf I change the address to 0x0 in the bootloader that is instead of the 100 byte offset
15:56:05kkurbjunrockbox.gigabeat also seems to include that 100 byte offset though, so I'm not sure why overwriting it causes the player to fail
15:56:08 Quit PaulJam_ (".")
15:56:20markunwhich address did you change to 0x0?
15:56:52kkurbjunin gigabeat.c loadbuffer = (unsigned char*) 0x100
15:57:05markunok, let me check
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15:57:33kkurbjunI have to go to work right now, but if you think of that question write it in here, I check the logs
15:58:00kkurbjunthanks for looking into that offset as well
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16:07:47JdGordondoes anyone think fs#6459 would be useful as a plugin? I think it could be done fairly simply
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16:08:12markunkkurbjun: I think I know what's going on
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16:08:36markunthe interrupt vector needs to start a 0x0
16:09:10bluebrotherJdGordon: you would need to maintain a list of buttons -> meaning
16:09:13markunand instead of having the vector at the beginning of crt0.S we reserve 0x100 bytes and then copy the vector there
16:09:25JdGordonbluebrother: thats the easy part :p
16:09:36markunI think it's very strange to do it like this
16:10:00bluebrotherand how do you want to call it? From a new hardcoded entry in the context menu?
16:10:16bluebrotherthat context menu might change the button context ...
16:10:44bluebrotherwhich leads me to thinking this idea is somewhat pointless
16:11:15JdGordonas a plugin, the first screen is a list of contexts
16:11:32bluebrotherdoes a user know what context there are available?
16:11:46JdGordonwell, they would be translated into english as best as possible
16:12:18bluebrotherI don't believe the average user (which this is intended to) wants to even think about this contexts.
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16:13:01JdGordonwell the first screen would ask for which screen you were in "wps" "file/db tree" "menu" etc
16:13:11JdGordonnot CONTEXT_TREE CONTEXT_LIST...
16:13:16bluebrotherhmm. Sure.
16:13:30preglowwhat's up with the fs mail sujects?
16:13:51*bluebrother was wondering about the notifications right this moment too
16:14:02linuxstbThis context-menu talk reminds me of an earlier idea I had - context menus for the items in the root menu, which would be linked to the relevant settings screens. So for example, a long press on "Files" would give you file-browser related settings, "Database" would give you database settings and options etc...
16:14:20preglowlinuxstb: sounds clever
16:14:30bluebrotherJdGordon: I'd rather like help messages like e.g. my mobile does
16:14:33*linuxstb waits for bluebrother to say it's not a root menu....
16:14:50bluebrotherexplaining the keys is somewhat not explaining but rtfm imo.
16:14:55JdGordonlinuxstb: its not so impossible to do...
16:15:27iwantanimacI have checked the Wiki and the manual and it is unclear to me exactly what the numbers in the "Most Played" Database menu are. The first number seems to be playcount, but the second makes far less sense. Could anyone enlighten me?
16:16:10linuxstbJdGordon: I was hoping you would say that....
16:16:22*bluebrother notices linuxstb noticing and refrains to note again
16:17:01roolkulinuxstb: good idea, there are bookmark settings as well and on the "Settings" entry there could be "manage settings"
16:17:11Slasheriiwantanimac: that is the generated auto score for the track
16:17:25Slasherihi roolku :)
16:17:27iwantanimacsorry, that would be "Last played tracks" not Most Played...
16:17:29*JdGordon whipes his dev tree clean and gets to it
16:17:37roolkuhi Slasheri :)
16:17:45Lynx_Hi guys! Has it ever been considered to have 'shut down' as a main menu option?
16:18:01bluebrotherLynx_: why?
16:18:26roolkuLynx_: it exists already (but needs to be enabled)
16:18:39Slasheriiwantanimac: there is no "last played tracks" in the default menu. Probably you should check what is inside tha tagnavi*.config files
16:18:42linuxstbroolku: It does? Then let's enable it...
16:18:53Lynx_bluebrother: somehow i dislike the long press
16:19:12Lynx_roolku: enabled in the options or enabled at code level?
16:19:22bluebrotherwhy do we need a menu entry for it? I don't think it's useful.
16:19:34bluebrotheror, in other words: useless ;)
16:19:34roolkulinuxstb: I better hope I haven't said anything wrong, but i am sure I have heard talk about not all archos having a shutdown key....
16:19:35iwantanimacactually it's "List Played Tracks" but i'm an idiot...
16:19:38*roolku goes looking
16:19:52Slasheriiwantanimac: probably you have old build of rockbox then
16:20:05Slasheriiwantanimac: that menu has been replaced some times ago
16:20:13iwantanimaci do... but i still want to know what it is...
16:20:14linuxstbroolku: I seem to remember amiconn saying it could be useful on those Archos targets because of the very short hardware power-off time... But I could be wrong.
16:20:22Slasheriiwantanimac: then check tagnavi.config
16:20:33Slasherithat contains all information
16:20:39bluebrotherroolku: iirc there is a patch in the tracker
16:21:40SiltaarHum, markun, didn't you spoke about the CPU bandwith required by eSpeack to work this morning ? (I remember smth like 28MHz with an ARM7 or 9 but can't find anything in the logs...)
16:22:09*bluebrother leaves for a couple of minutes
16:22:14linuxstbbluebrother: A shutdown option could be quicker to use then having to hold play/pause for 3 or 4 seconds, which is what the ipods require - it's an extra-long press on ipods to still allow a normal long-press on play/pause to be used in Rockbox.
16:23:23iwantanimaclinuxstb: I agree. The extra-long press is annoying.
16:24:05linuxstbBlame Apple for thinking a "stop" button isn't useful...
16:24:14iwantanimaclol yeah.
16:24:29JdGordonwell smarty pants.... the backend code is done... which menu should each item point to?
16:24:35iwantanimaci only had an iPod for a weekend and it bugged me so much.
16:25:07linuxstbJdGordon: I'm not sure... That's the tricky part...
16:25:18roolkulinuxstb bluebrother: it's in root_menu.c line 317 (only enabled for charcell)
16:25:52markunSiltaar: well, it was originally designed for ARM7 at 12MHz or something, but it has changed a bit since than so I don't know how much is needed right now
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16:26:32Overandiwantanimac: not bothering me too much, but i'm running a rockbox nightly from about a week ago, so i'm reasonably happy
16:27:35linuxstbroolku: My only worry is that maybe it would clutter the main menu. Logically, I think the option would go in "System", but if it's hard to access, it becomes less useful....
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16:27:59roolkuLynx_: yes, you would need to do your own build and change line 306 #ifdef HAVE_LCD_CHARCELLS
16:28:13roolkuLynx_: and corresponding #endif
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16:28:54cropamiconn: can we automatically recognise that a plugin uses IRAM? In that case we could init the iram in plugin.c and thuis make plugin programming less error prone
16:29:06roolkulinuxstb: maybe make it better accessable by having a HAVE_MENU_SHUTDOWN define that can be set in the config-* files
16:29:31roolkuroolku: I can understand that not everybody would want it
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16:30:28*roolku is talking to himself
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16:31:33JdGordonwhat key is used to get to the quick screen on the gb?
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16:32:20roolkuJdGordon: for the slow quickscreen screen you hold menu
16:32:40markunSiltaar: just did a little test on my PC and flite managed to convert a text file in 8.2 seconds and eSpeak 7.7. Not a bit difference.
16:34:55amiconncrop: Plugins using iram should be an exception. For video or certain speed critical things it's okay, but normal plugins shouldn't use iram in order to allow music playing in parallel
16:35:06JdGordonlinuxstb: almost working
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16:36:31cropamiconn: ok. If someone is so advanced that he/she uses iram attributes we assume that he/she also initialises iram correctly :-)
16:36:36 Join perl|work [0] (
16:36:49Siltaarmarkun sure
16:37:10cropamiconn: have you seen my question about the initialising of the plugin_api structure?
16:37:35SiltaarBut, I must have read somewhere that eSpeack require less than 28MHz ARM7 I can't find again where...
16:37:39markunSiltaar: let met check homany % realtime it is
16:38:04SiltaarIt seems to be a French madness to ear voices that nobody else ear...
16:38:31Siltaaror read quotes that aren't in the logs :-P
16:38:31cropIt's now done by order. I suggested to do it by names.
16:38:32linuxstbmarkun: Can you remind me what work is required to port espeak? I've forgotten... Is it C++?
16:38:45Siltaarit is
16:38:53 Quit iwantanimac ("iMac, out.")
16:39:04B4gderpeople should stop using C++
16:39:11SiltaarI think so
16:39:18Siltaaruse Ada 2005 instead !!
16:39:30linuxstbB4gder: You're not wrong...
16:39:34markunlinuxstb: it's c++, but uses almost no c++ features
16:39:42markunthen there is malloc of course
16:39:52linuxstbAs a test, you can fake malloc...
16:40:05linuxstbAs long as it's not using free too much..
16:40:09markunI asked Jonathan about the use of floats and he thought the main loop was fixed point
16:40:41JdGordonlinuxstb: hmm.. maybe this wont be so easy to get working
16:41:40markunlinuxstb: maybe I can post my email conversations with him somewhere so I don't make anny errors and don't have to repeat it
16:41:59perl|workmarkun severe case of stereo reverse, it didnt go away until i restarted the player this morning
16:42:12linuxstbmarkun: A wiki page would seem in order...
16:42:33markunperl|work: I also keep getting it from time to time
16:42:54markunlinuxstb: maybe just a general TTS wiki page?
16:42:58perl|workmarkun i guess there're only 2 of us who can spot it :P
16:43:14perl|workmaybe other people dont know their music that well
16:43:34linuxstbmarkun: Maybe a comparison of flite and espeak, listing features - which would include things like language, use of malloc, fixed/floats etc etc
16:44:29linuxstbJdGordon: What's the problem?
16:44:33markunperl|work: I noticed in the movie player when I was watching starwars and a ship was going in the wrong direction I think :)
16:44:39preglowplus for flite: is possible to understand first time you're exposed to it
16:44:52markunpreglow: yes, that's for sure
16:45:07JdGordonlinuxstb: it seems to like crashing for some unknown reason :p
16:45:13 Join My_Sic [0] (
16:46:05perl|workmarkun ha
16:46:10 Join toffe82 [0] (
16:46:34markunSo, what's the plan for GSoC now? Can Ozgur start his work now or will there be some kind of start sign?
16:47:07linuxstbI think I read a timeline somewhere - something like the 28th May to start coding, but students are expected to make contact with projects before that.
16:47:28cropDoes google provide some funding etc? Or what is the point in doing something as part of soc?
16:47:29B4gdermarkun: we need the cancer guys to remove their mentorship, but then there should be no obstables
16:47:42linuxstbmarkun: (Project timeline)
16:47:50B4gdercrop: the gsoc is 4500 USD funding
16:48:02B4gderto the student
16:49:01cropB4gder: ah, not bad! And for the mentor?
16:49:10B4gdera t-shirt
16:49:20markunand for the project 500 USD
16:49:28pondlifeDoesn't the student get a shirt too?
16:49:33cropFair deal!
16:49:35markunso in total 2000 USB beer money
16:49:41markunUSD even :)
16:49:43elinenbeSuper deal on the gigabeat:
16:49:46elinenbeI just got one for $90 shipped −− for a 40 GB MP3 player!
16:49:58markunelinenbe: how much do they have left?
16:50:01B4gderthat's insane
16:50:02markunpretty amazing
16:50:12pondlifeIf I only lived in the US
16:50:31B4gderelinenbe: you can sell them for 100 + shipping to overseas! ;-)
16:50:49pondlifeI'd pay 100.01
16:50:53markuntoffe82: did you see that?
16:50:59elinenbemarkun: Not sure how many left, but Office Depot is a huge store here... they could have hundreds? thousands?
16:51:03markunmight be nice for you Gigabeat store :)
16:51:27Rincewindelinenbe: do you know if they ship internationally?
16:51:48B4gderUS stores too rarely ship international
16:52:06perl|workfatwallet people got a lot already
16:52:10perl|worksomebody ordered 10 of them
16:52:18perl|worki got one myself
16:52:27elinenbewhen you order it says if they are in stock or not...
16:52:56markunperl|work: you couldn't resist? :)
16:53:10pondlifeWhen do non-mentors find out which GSoC projects are going ahead? And which students/mentors..?
16:53:14toffe82markun: yes good deal
16:53:16perl|workmarkun well at $90 shipped its hard to
16:53:23 Quit miepchen^schlaf (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
16:53:24linuxstbpondlife: It's published already.
16:53:24B4gderI have to admit the gigabeats are uglier in the real world than what they look like on pictures ;-)
16:53:33linuxstbpondlife: See here -
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16:53:49linuxstbB4gder: I thought the opposite...
16:53:55pondlifelinuxstb: I can't see much than a link back to our wiki
16:54:04linuxstbAt least the silver one is nice IMO.
16:54:11perl|workmarkun i just wish it was champagne :P
16:54:12markunB4gder: do you have one now, or only saw LinsN's?
16:54:18toffe82markun: my business is going down now :(
16:54:23perl|workB4gder you havent seen the black one that is
16:54:24B4gdermarkun: I played with linus'
16:54:27markuntoffe82: yes, terrible new
16:54:57linuxstbpondlife: Ah, so you don't see anything when you click on a project name? I didn't realise it was just visible to logged-in mentors.
16:54:57pondlifelinuxstb: Ah, I see it
16:54:59B4gderI wouldn't mind a gigabeat though
16:54:59perl|workB4gder 20gb black is one of the best looking mp3 players ever made period
16:55:07pondlifeI was getting a script error
16:55:07linuxstbpondlife: Ah, so it is public?
16:55:19toffe82markun: the one on the picture seems to be the F60
16:56:06linuxstbtoffe82: Is a hard drive upgrade straightforward? Or does it require some kind of adapter to format the disk from a PC?
16:56:18markunlinuxstb: no adapter
16:56:26markunyou can use the 'hotswap' trick
16:56:50toffe82linuxstb: just use the toshiba hard drive with female connector
16:56:52markunah, but there is some magic on the HDD somewhere
16:57:19JdGordonlinuxstb: all working :D
16:57:41toffe82neverbuy the toshiba model finishing by 8 (zif connector) for the F , it doens't work
16:58:19linuxstbtoffe82: I would quite like an 80GB drive, but I only have an F20... Any options?
16:58:47markunlinuxstb: isn't there supposed to be a single platter 50GB drive now?
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16:58:51toffe82you need to change the back case
16:59:41linuxstbmarkun: I don't know. But there's normally a long gap between "supposed to be available" and "actually available".
17:00:27perl|worktoffe82 f40 and f60 can look quite the same on the certain angle on the pictures
17:00:53roolkulinuxstb: I have a spare F60 back if you are interested - slightly battered but still usable
17:01:11linuxstbroolku: Oooh... What colour?
17:01:36roolkulinuxstb: silver (I have never seen black in Europe)
17:01:49perl|workf60 has darker middle silver plater
17:02:01toffe82perl|work: they didn't do a F40 with these color
17:02:11perl|worktoffe82 what pictures exactly?
17:03:00toffe82the one from the link for the super deal :
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17:03:25perl|workah that
17:03:28perl|workyes thats f60
17:03:40roolkulinuxstb: I can send you a picture when I get home tonight
17:04:11toffe82linuxstb: the max you can put on the F is a 60gb, all the other model from toshiba with higher capacity are with zif connector
17:04:29toffe82or you have to make an adapter
17:05:30markuntoffe82: amiconn has a non-ZIF 80GB drive
17:05:49markunmaybe petur as well, I'm not sure
17:05:52 Quit barrywardell (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
17:05:52JdGordonany thoughts on what the context menu for the playlist item and the plugins item should be?
17:05:52toffe82compatible toshiba ?
17:06:00markunyes, Toshiba
17:06:04JdGordonand radio item
17:06:07markunhe now has a iriver H180
17:06:18toffe82markun: strange I didn't see it on the toshiba site
17:06:28perl|workmarkun do you know the price of it?
17:06:39markunsomething like 250 euro I believe
17:06:59markunbut he can answer that
17:07:05toffe82markun: the only 80 I see is the mk6008gah and it is a zif connector
17:08:02yohof40 is on sale at officedepot for $100 fwiw
17:08:43amiconnThe MK8007GAH is non-ZIF, that's what I've put in my iriver
17:08:48linuxstbtoffe82: Ah, then I may not bother with it... I need as much space as I can get, so may put the disk in my H140 instead.
17:09:13toffe82markun: ok I found it but no more on toshiba site it is the mk8007gah
17:09:23***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
17:09:34*linuxstb tries to catch up...
17:10:03linuxstbSo what's the verdict? Is an F80 possible?
17:10:09amiconnWorks like a charm, and I paid EUR 160 including shipment
17:11:01linuxstbThat's more than two complete F40s from
17:11:57*JdGordon prods linuxstb to look and ok that patch so /me can goto bed
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17:12:12toffe82linuxstb: the mk8007gah should work but you will need to change the back case
17:12:14 Quit Forte (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
17:12:28linuxstbtoffe82: OK, thanks.
17:12:31linuxstbJdGordon: Looking now....
17:13:06linuxstbroolku: Check your PMs...
17:14:01toffe82linuxstb: if you need a back case , I can provide it, I have some, there are not really clean but they are ok
17:15:07linuxstbHopefully I can arrange something with roolku - I think we live in the same country.
17:16:30cropamiconn: ping
17:20:20linuxstbamiconn: Did you buy your mk8007gah from "CCI Distribution" in the US?
17:20:21amiconnlinuxstb: True, the gigabeats are cheap, but that must be for a reason ;)
17:20:34amiconnlinuxstb: Nope, from a german ebayer
17:22:00perl|workamiconn and that reason is...?
17:22:46perl|worki can think of one actually
17:22:48markunperl|work: amiconn things the CPU is too powerful to be fun :)
17:22:50perl|work"steve jobs"
17:23:01crop amiconn: if the plugins using iram wouldn't need to ask whether the audio playback should be stopped, could we code in a way that made copying iram not necessary? I.e. layout the plugin address space so that that section gets loaded directly at the right address.
17:23:03linuxstbJdGordon: It seems to work well. Do you like the feature?
17:23:17markunthey are just cheap because they are old and have a lousy firmware of course
17:23:34markunthey can't even play video!
17:23:59JdGordonlinuxstb: yeah, it effectivly doubles the amount of items in the menu.. so its good, the actual menus they open might need tweaking later.. but for now its good
17:24:38markunanyone in the Netherlands or in Paris planning to buy a F40?
17:25:00elinenbeyou see this: ?
17:25:23elinenbethe problem with not supporting jpeg album art tags is 90% of album art out there is configured like this.
17:25:43elinenbealong with music bought from itunes, allofmp3, emusic, and most blog mp3s
17:25:59elinenbeIt's odd to not want to support what has become the standard
17:26:21markunelinenbe: animated icons are also normal for DAPs
17:26:37JdGordonmarkun: we can do that now!
17:26:41markunwho knows, maybe we will support embedded jpegs after all
17:26:42linuxstbelinenbe: IIUC, most DAPs (including Apple's ipod firmware) don't actually read the images from the tags - they're extracted by a PC application and stored in an album art database. Which is exactly what Rockbox requires, apart from the fact that it uses the filesystem as the database.
17:26:44markunJdGordon: nooo!
17:26:45JdGordonwell... soon
17:27:30elinenbewell, that is why rockbox is better than those other players.
17:27:40markunJdGordon: the newer irivers all use flash as the basis of their UI, maybe we should do the same :)
17:27:56elinenbevirtually every PC application also supports embedded album art.
17:27:57markunadobe flash, not flash rom
17:27:59perl|workJdGordon cant wait for the icon sets! :P
17:28:03JdGordonna, thats a bit overkill
17:28:11pondlifeOnce MoB has been completed, it should be fairly easy to parse that metadata for JPEGs. But people who have a clue will still be able to use external .JPGs..
17:28:11linuxstbelinenbe: PC applications don't have limited CPU, RAM and power...
17:28:26amiconncrop: Perhaps, but why would you want that? The current method works, and it works well...
17:28:59linuxstbcrop: What's the problem you're trying to fix?
17:29:06amiconnperl|work: (afaik) No recording, no radio, no s/pdif, and a colour display
17:29:24markunelinenbe: but hey, it's an open source project. Maybe someone will feel like adding support for it
17:29:40perl|workamiconn ah, well yes, if you're looking for such options in a dap that is
17:29:54croplinuxstb: I'm trying to fix the fact that I don't understand how RB works :-)
17:29:56amiconnAnd yes, I think working with the gigabeat hardware is kinda boring, except figuring out *how* things work, but that's mostly done...
17:30:33linuxstbYou just need to set higher targets....
17:30:51markunamiconn: the Gigabeat S will be more boring for you, but adds radio
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17:31:17markunamiconn: it can do floating point vector operations and has a >500MHz CPU :)
17:31:23pondlifePity it can't record
17:31:36preglowall good
17:31:44Nico_PI'm adding the crossfade and crossfeed tags to the WPS code... but crossfeed used to be %xd and that's a aproblem. how do you like %xe ?
17:31:48amiconnperl|work: Well, if the DACs and headphone amplifiers of today's daps weren't so crappy, s/pdif would be less interesting
17:31:52markunat least for the Gigabeat F we can add SPDIF in and out to the dock
17:32:10 Quit crop ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
17:32:11pondlifeAh, so it does have an input?
17:32:16preglowmarkun: i'd be really tempted to get one of those buggers
17:32:23aliaskJdGordon: I just compiled a gigabeat sim build with your iconset patch and I'm getting quite garbled menus.
17:32:32markunpreglow: S or F?
17:32:46pondlifeS is DRMed isn't it?
17:32:49amiconnmarkun: Trying to get flac decoding realtime on 11MHz is more challenging...
17:33:07preglowbut more challenging isn't always more fun
17:33:30perl|workmarkun do you think S has a chance now to be rockboxed?
17:33:34JdGordonaliask: you got the patch from the last comment and the last set of bmps?
17:33:37markunperl|work: yes
17:33:50markunbut let's wait and see how far Zunepet gets
17:34:01aliaskJdGordon: Oops, not the last bmps, but the last patch.
17:34:03perl|workhe hasnt released anything yet, has he
17:34:20JdGordontheres your problem :D the bmp strip was flipped 90deg
17:34:34toffe82markun: we have no doc on the video chip and the power control one for the S
17:34:35 Quit jhMikeS (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
17:35:23preglowamiconn: besides, i don't know how useful i'd say flac decoding is on a target with two megs of ram
17:35:25markuntoffe82: is there a separate video chip?
17:35:31preglowthat's not saying it won't be fun, of course
17:35:39toffe82markun: yes
17:36:15JdGordonwho was talking about the shutdown option in the root menu?
17:36:26preglowi thinks
17:36:34preglowno, ignore me
17:36:34JdGordonI think the system items context menu should be used for that and alarm time
17:36:36linuxstbpreglow: It could be useful in a car environment for example - where battery life isn't an issue... And you can stick 160GB drives in the Archos devices.
17:36:43amiconnpreglow: More useful than playing straight .wav ...
17:36:49preglowamiconn: indeed, heh
17:37:23 Quit JdGordon ("zzzZZZ")
17:37:27toffe82markun: it is the FS456 on the S, it can output 1080i :)
17:37:43linuxstbDoes it come with hdmi?
17:38:07aliasktoffe82: I have the datasheet for that chip.
17:38:55*linuxstb wonders if anyone actually still makes hard-disk based DAPs, rather than PMPs...
17:40:39GodEaternot unless you count the shuffle
17:40:42GodEaterbut that's not HD based
17:41:09markuntoffe82: too bad no 1080p :)
17:41:24GodEaterI'm glad - I'd curse my choice of TV still more!
17:41:28GodEater1080i is it's max
17:42:30Nico_Proolku: an opinion about %xe for the crossfeed WPS tag ?
17:43:21perl|worktoffe82 wow
17:43:23markuntoffe82: but that's just the TV-out right?
17:43:29markunI think we can live without it for a while
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17:44:23toffe82markun: yes
17:44:24Nico_Pdoes someone know what does the small red balloon next to my application ( mean ?
17:44:26markuntoffe82: the power management chip is the only other unknown?
17:44:31Nico_Psorry, the link is
17:44:47markunNico_P: I was wondering about that as well
17:44:53pondlifeNico_P: I was wondering about that - it looks like a Google Maps end point
17:45:17Nico_Ppondlife: yeah i might be that. I've added my location info
17:46:10toffe82markun: yes, it is from freescale and no datasheet available
17:47:02markunsuch nice guys..
17:47:02roolkuNico_P: noty sure what you mean about the %xe?
17:47:11roolkulinuxstb: I checked. :)
17:47:20Nico_Proolku: I'm adding the crossfade and crossfeed tags to the WPS code... but crossfeed used to be %xd and that's a aproblem. how do you like %xe ?
17:48:06pondlifeNico_P: Any more plans on how you'll be attacking the playback stuff? Maybe pop up a wiki page? Certainly look at the stuff on ...
17:49:19Nico_Ppondlife: thanks for the link. I haven't though about it much yet
17:49:27pondlifeNo problem, just wondered.
17:49:30*amiconn wonders what the context menu on menu items should be good for....
17:50:06pondlifeAbout 161 bytes it appears ;)
17:50:11roolkuNico_P: I find it a little odd, to group cross-feed and cross-fade under the same first letter as they don't really have much in common
17:50:20amiconnNico_P: What's the problem with %xd ?
17:50:22roolkuNico_P: but otherwise %xe is fine with me (assuming it doesn't clash with anything)
17:50:41linuxstbamiconn: They just feel natural to me - when I first tried the root menu patch, my instinct was to long-select on the items...
17:50:57*amiconn never even tried that
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17:51:35Nico_Pamiconn: %xd is already used for image displaying
17:52:04pondlifeIs %xf used?
17:52:15Nico_Proolku: in the pre-tokenizer code, they were %xd and %xf. Not my idea
17:52:16pondlifexf is a bit like Cross-Fade
17:52:41Nico_Ppondlife: %xf IS crossfade :)
17:52:49pondlifeGood :)
17:53:04Nico_Por at least was and will soon be again
17:53:06pondlifeDoes crossfeed really need a WPS tag?
17:53:20Nico_Pnot sure, but someone added it to the SVN code
17:53:36pondlifeI can understand crossfade a bit, but crossfeed is like EQ... not something I'd want on a WPS..
17:53:44amiconnWell, both are #swcodec only
17:54:09amiconncrossfeed belongs to sound settings though, while crossfade is a playback thing
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17:55:09pondlifeI see crossfeed as being like repeat or shuffle modes... a useful indicator. Crossfade is something you'd set up for your headphones and leave alone, right?
17:55:38*pondlife thinks crossfeed should be renamed, but can't think of a better name either.
17:55:50markunpondlife: all of us do
17:55:57linuxstb... and none of us can
17:56:11linuxstbspeaker wow
17:56:14amiconnpondlife: It's the other way round...
17:56:29pondlifeamiconn: I know, I was joking (badly)
17:56:42pondlifeAh, and making a mistake too..
17:57:31linuxstbI always find it hard to know if a setting is in "sound" or "playback", and always go to the wrong one first...
17:57:37markunlinuxstb: a name like that would probably take away some confusion
17:57:46markunlike ReplayGain
17:58:05linuxstbpondlife: Sounds like a mobile phone contract...
17:58:13pondlifeAnd a bit like talkbox...
17:58:25pondlifeHeadRoom (tm)
17:58:44pondlifei.e. turn your head into a room
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18:00:01linuxstbSomething with "3-D" in it...
18:00:26pondlifeOr more accurately, 2-D
18:00:36linuxstbNot as sexy
18:00:46Nico_Pso %xe is good ?
18:00:56linuxstbIt would never be approved by our marketing team...
18:01:02linuxstb(taking to pondlife..)
18:01:10pondlifeHah, we pay those guys too much :)
18:01:31 Quit Siltaar (Remote closed the connection)
18:01:36pondlifeNico_P: If you must add a crossFEED tag...
18:01:57perl|workactually "headroom" sounds better than "crossfeed"
18:02:12roolkuwith the options/settings in the context menu now, wouldn't it be good to remove the duplicates from the setting menu und tidy it up a little (i.e. move the contents of the General settings one level up)?
18:02:13pondlifeHeadRoom is already a trade mark for a crossfeed amp
18:02:21linuxstbStereo Depth?
18:02:26perl|workpondlife ah yes
18:02:37Nico_Ppondlife: actually maybe it's not even worth it... It's not documented much (not in the wiki anyway)... I was just doing it for the sake of compatibility but if I'm going to change the tag, compatibility is not really respected
18:02:39pondlifelinuxstb: Stereo Depth vs Stereo Width :)
18:02:39roolku(although there is at least one problem with the bookmark entry being optional)
18:03:03pondlifeNico_P: I would just scrap the tag to be honest.
18:03:13Nico_PI'll add crossfade and see if anyone complains about the lack of a crossfeed tag
18:03:14 Quit midgey ()
18:03:35amiconnlinuxstb: It's quite logical for me which setting is sound and which is playback...
18:03:35pondlifeperl|work: AirHead too..
18:05:25pondlifeI think I like Soundstage or Spatial best.
18:05:27joai like this channel because it's always busy :)
18:06:40amiconnpondlife: I tried crossfeed on my irivers, and I honestly fail to hear a difference between it enabled and disabled...
18:06:42 Quit GodEater (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
18:07:07pondlifeamiconn: I never use it either, but have seen enough confusion
18:08:27perl|workamiconn quite noticable on gigabeat
18:08:36perl|worknever liked it though
18:09:12Rincewindamiconn: try crossfeed with an old beatles recording
18:09:23Rincewindthe difference is very noticable
18:10:04Rincewindit makes those "false stereo" recordings from the sixties much nicer
18:10:10*amiconn has no beatles recordings
18:10:26amiconnNothing from the sixties or earlier in fact
18:10:44pondlifeRincewind: I normally decrease stereo width or set mono for those.
18:11:37*amiconn usually increases stereo width for a more pleasing sound
18:11:57*pondlife too
18:12:01amiconn120% is my standard setting (for earphones of course)
18:12:03RincewindI never used stereo width
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18:14:00Rincewindon the naming issue: i think spatial is a bad name. I like soundstage, it is descriptive even if you don't have the technical understanding
18:15:14pondlifeI don't have the technical understanding, but I still like Soundstage... ;)
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18:18:40toffe82small info on the sound output of the F , the lowest frequency is 45 hz on a 16 ohms headphones (check the formula on the datasheet, on the F the output capacitor are 220mF
18:19:06toffe82220 micro F ^^
18:19:46toffe82If you want better bass, it is easy to change ;)
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18:23:19perl|workoh wow context menus
18:24:32Nico_Pwow KDE got 40 GSoC projects !
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18:35:11desowinNico_P: they had over 300 applications
18:35:14 Join pixelma [0] (i=pixelma@rockbox/staff/pixelma)
18:35:29desowinand rockbox had 20
18:35:42desowinanyway rockbox did good assigment for students
18:35:51Nico_Pdesowin: true but I still find the number impressive
18:35:56desowinso I don't think like any slot will be wasted
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18:36:23desowinNico_P: gcc originally had 4
18:36:40desowinyesterday DannyB told they have 6
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18:37:02desowinand they got 8 ;-)
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19:01:17toffe82amiconn: where did you buy your 80gb hd ?
19:02:28 Join feisar [0] (
19:02:44amiconn[17:20:33] <amiconn> linuxstb: Nope, from a german ebayer
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19:03:20toffe82sorry I miss this one :)
19:04:02elinenbeNico_P: that red balloon means this is a high priority projec they want to see done!
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19:04:23elinenbeelinenbe: Nico_P: at least one I want to see done!
19:04:28Nico_Pelinenbe: :)
19:04:48elinenbealthough, I think embedded bmp and jpg images should be supported! :)
19:04:51desowinelinenbe: it's supossed to be link to google maps
19:05:13elinenbedesowin: hey −− now you are confusing me!
19:05:31desowinthat red balloon
19:06:07desowinthose students who want to publish their location have that balloon near their application
19:06:23*desowin is one of accepted students (not for rockbox though)
19:06:25Nico_Pelinenbe: maybe I'll see embedded pictures are easy to do and do them... but it's not the main focus of the project
19:06:42Nico_Pdesowin: what project will you be working on ?
19:06:53perl|workamiconn was it new, was it a store or a personal sell?
19:07:15amiconnPersonal, and used
19:07:23desowinNico_P: Audacious, rewrite the widgetcore (leftovers from xmms) as real gtk2
19:07:24amiconnBut it's in perfect working condition
19:09:27***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
19:09:31PaulJamNico_P: if you plan to not readd the crossfeed tag, then you schould remove the description from the manual (section B.7.)
19:09:53Nico_PPaulJam: do you use that tag ?
19:10:34PaulJamyes, but i compile a build for myself. so i can add this tag in my local source.
19:12:01Nico_PPaulJam: I could add it but I'd have to rename it
19:12:10Nico_P%xd is already used for images
19:12:31amiconnlinuxstb: I want to move the archos backlight code to target tree and change the current multi-value CONFIG_BACKLIGHT to a simple HAVE_BACKLIGHT, because the target differences are handled in target tree
19:12:47amiconnSo I thought, but the ipod bootloader checks for CONFIG_BACKLIGHT values...
19:16:04PaulJamyes, i already noticed that. i thought about %dc (dsp: crossfeed), but since the wps needs to be edited anyway, it doesnt really matter what the tag is.
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19:34:34*petur bought his 80GB disk on ebay - new
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19:52:40 Part scoates
19:55:10linuxstbamiconn: I'm fixing the ipod bootloaders now - committing in a few minute...
19:55:25elinenbepetur: what system did you buy that for? The ipod, or the iriver?
19:55:39petuririver h380
19:56:08linuxstbpetur: I'm looking at that company - they're the only seller I've found so far. Was your experience with them OK?
19:56:21elinenbepetur: does it work?
19:56:31elinenbealso, how many platters is it?
19:57:25peturthe disk is OK and new as far as I could see, packaging could have been a bit better but I suspect it was customs in Belgium that screwed it. Shipping was sloooow
19:57:33petur2 platters
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19:57:42elinenbeshould have gotten this:
19:57:47elinenbe100GB! NICE!
19:58:17linuxstbamiconn: Committed.
19:59:06peturelinenbe: site doesn't load
19:59:36GuardianHeadpetur it does for me, so it's your connection.
20:00:15*petur runs away for a while
20:00:27roolkuelinenbe: zif connector though
20:01:45toffe82linuxstb: this one ship worlwide :
20:01:52elinenbeiriver h3100
20:02:15 Quit bepe86 ("Leaving")
20:03:02linuxstbtoffe82: Yes, that's the same company as Petur's link..
20:04:16toffe82linuxstb: sorry didn't look all the page :)
20:05:15linuxstbIt's depressing that the 100GB version is cheaper, but ZIF...
20:05:18 Join l2eM1x [0] (
20:06:57GuardianHeadSo can you guys name some of the 'regulars' in here? I'm trying to remember the name of someone I talked to before, heh
20:07:46l2eM1xdo you guys have like a clipboard of stuff you have to say all the time?
20:07:53 Quit Arathis (Remote closed the connection)
20:08:07l2eM1xboy that would get annoying
20:08:37linuxstbwe share the pain
20:08:59PaulJamGuardianHead: if you talked to him in this channel, you could see if you find it in the logs:
20:09:01GuardianHeadthanks linuxstb but damn it I don't recognize it
20:09:18GuardianHeadLOL that's funny that logs are kept
20:09:22GuardianHeadit was a long time ago though
20:09:34GuardianHeadbut maybe if I check the date...
20:10:03linuxstbWhat was the subject of the discussion?
20:10:09l2eM1xi came in here to ask for a solution to something and i fixed it
20:10:16l2eM1xso now im here for chatting
20:10:32GuardianHeadThis guy modded the release of rockbox in several ways that I also thought were better, and since then I'd been using one of his builds
20:10:32l2eM1xsometimes im like "Its so hard being this perfect"
20:10:48GuardianHeadlast night I got the latest .rockbox and well....There are some things I don't like as much
20:11:00GuardianHeadof course being a retard I didn't make a backup :)
20:11:00l2eM1xthey dont support other builds here
20:11:09GuardianHeadI know, I just want to find the guy
20:11:10l2eM1xoh you want to go back
20:11:17linuxstbGuardianHead: Then he's probably not a regular. Try the "unsupported builds" forum.
20:11:30GuardianHeadI looked at the forum, didn't see an area like that
20:11:35linuxstbOr if your talking iriver, then the misticriver forums.
20:11:43l2eM1xits at the very bottom
20:12:03roolkulinuxstb: it is in the post. :)
20:12:27linuxstbroolku: Thanks! Guess I now need to part with some real money and get the drive...
20:12:30l2eM1xdoes anyone know how i can position text in my WPS without using alignments
20:12:30GuardianHeadsweet, found myself in the logs, thanks for a nudge in the right direction PaulJam
20:12:36peturGuardianHead: you can google your nick +
20:12:56*petur gets slow
20:13:36GuardianHeadPaulJam are you formerly Paul_The_Nerd ?
20:13:51PaulJamno, that is Llorean
20:14:01GuardianHeadmight have been him, thanks.
20:14:07 Join Arathis [0] (
20:15:40GuardianHeadDoes .mid playback work on nano yet?
20:16:20l2eM1xif i use this line : %al %pc%ac%pv -%pr
20:16:33l2eM1xits interpreted like the center tag isnt there
20:17:49perl|workoh well $225 for 80gb
20:17:55perl|workmight as well buy 3 F40s :P
20:18:02PaulJamhave you tried the line with not so many spaces behind the %al ?
20:18:23l2eM1xit does work without the spaces
20:18:43l2eM1xbut then I can't get the left formatting the way I would like it to look
20:19:49perl|work"They had ~2030 in stock at OfficeDepot for delivery in my area this morning. Now they are sold out. "
20:20:20linuxstbToshiba should start making them again...
20:20:36linuxstbWasting their time on Zunes....
20:22:09toffe82they better sell the X in the us
20:23:36l2eM1xdouble true
20:24:15l2eM1xmaybe that will explain it better
20:27:03perl|worki think they were sold out faster than any ipods hehe
20:27:20perl|worktoday i mean
20:28:11joawhats this?
20:28:12perl|worktoshiba should take notes
20:28:53joawhats so good about them?
20:30:36joaive not really looked into them before
20:31:27 Join ender` [0] (n=ender@
20:32:23PaulJaml2eM1x: does that picture show what it should look like or how it looks now? i don't really see a problem.
20:32:55l2eM1xit shows how it looks now, the last line is the problem
20:33:07perl|workjoa, well, the looks, the screen, sound quality, speed with rockbox, etc
20:33:29l2eM1xI want the time progressions and the volume to be aligned with the progress bar
20:33:33l2eM1xunderneath it
20:34:16l2eM1xperlwork your quick :-)
20:34:20joaare they better than ipods with rockbox ?
20:34:27joa5th gen
20:34:35linuxstbFar better, yes.
20:35:09joaim looking a getting a player at the end of the months with a view to putting rockbox on it
20:35:18joajust haven't decided on which one to get yet
20:35:33joaneed flac support
20:35:49 Join kubiix [0] (
20:36:29linuxstbFLAC works well on all the modern Rockbox targets - it needs very little CPU power to decode.
20:36:46joait's between the ipod, x5 and i guess the new toshiba one
20:37:31linuxstbIt's actually an old toshiba - they don't make them any more...
20:37:42joahow does the installation vary from player to player?
20:37:48joaoh ;o
20:38:06joai've had 2 mp3 players before
20:38:09joathe ihp140
20:38:11joaand the h340
20:38:16perl|workipod 6g rumoured, with virtual scroll wheel and touch screen interface heh
20:38:27joaboth were pretty good. i sold them though :(
20:38:34linuxstbperl|work: Wasn't that rumoured a year ago?
20:39:00perl|worklinuxstb it was, but now apparently it came from an apple employee heh
20:39:24perl|worknew 12 / 16gb nanos and touch screen ipod
20:39:46perl|workall for this year's fall
20:41:04PaulJaml2eM1x: ok, now i undertand what you mean. sounds like a bug to me. ( i initally thought the problem was that the line is so long, that it pushes the %pv tag to the right)
20:41:11joaany links to pictures of the 6gen?
20:41:31perl|workjoa its just a rumour
20:41:53joaah ok
20:42:07joamy gf said i can have her H10 as she just doesn't use it
20:42:47joagoing to get that tonight anf slap rockbox on it. see what the installation process is like
20:43:13 Nick [Sur`DataGho is now known as DataGhost (
20:44:33joawhat player would you guys go for, for rockbox to go on it?
20:44:45crwllthe iriver h120/h140
20:44:51joaprefably one that does models 30gb>
20:45:05joai might have trouble getting an h140
20:45:19crwllwhy did you sell yours? :)
20:46:29joasold it to a uni friend who made a generous offer
20:46:32joaand i was broke
20:46:36joastill am lol
20:47:44linuxstbYou can normally find gigabeat F40s for around $100 USD or less.
20:48:10toffe82:) now that the deal is over, Ican go back on business ;)
20:48:30linuxstbtoffe82: How many did you stockpile?
20:49:26toffe82I have a F40 , F20 and A F10 to sell
20:51:10 Quit kubiixaka (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
20:51:29toffe82I have some back case of F40 so I can transform the F10 an F20 to F40, F60 or F80 if I find some cheap hard drive
20:52:30perl|worktoffe82, orange one is still not for sale? :P
20:52:48toffe82I can ask my wife ;)
20:52:55perl|workshe doesnt like it?
20:53:28perl|workdid it came in a special edition box btw?
20:53:40toffe82she doesn't care, but I think I will keep it, I was expensive, I pay 90$ for it
20:53:52perl|workthose "new" colors came in one if i remember correctly
20:55:37toffe82check here, you have all the color :
20:56:21perl|worki meant the box
20:57:08l2eM1x[01:41 PM] PaulJam: l2eM1x: ok, now i undertand what you mean. sounds like a bug to me. ( i initally thought the problem was that the line is so long, that it pushes the %pv tag to the right)
20:57:09perl|work"new colors" had some weird box
20:57:17perl|workmaybe im confused though
20:57:21l2eM1xPaulJam: I missed that. Thanks for the clarification
20:58:03toffe82perl|work: the box is orange with yellow dot if remember , smaller than the original one
20:58:32desowinhow long does gigabeat battery work ? (in sense hours of playback)
20:59:39toffe82more than 14 hours
20:59:39perl|worktoffe82 ah nice
21:01:48desowinand on orifinal firmware ? does rockbox already beat it ?
21:02:55 Join dsheets [0] (n=dsheets@EASTCAMPUS-ONE-O-THREE-HUNDRED-SIXTY.MIT.EDU)
21:03:21l2eM1xwow body
21:03:32toffe82sorry for the caps
21:03:33perl|worktoffe82 i did
21:03:49perl|workOF was about 16 hours for me
21:04:10perl|worki hit 17 hours with rockbox quite a few times
21:04:33linuxstbWhat was your test? mp3s?
21:04:35dsheetsanybody have experience with iPod serial hardware hacking?
21:04:53linuxstbdsheets: I don't believe anyone in Rockbox has tried it.
21:05:23linuxstbAll I know is that the IPL kernel has a serial driver which doesn't work.
21:05:33dsheetslinuxstb, crap... right now I just would like to get my computer talking to the Apple firmware. The next step would be integration into rockbox/ipl
21:05:38linuxstb(for PP502x based ipods)
21:05:40perl|worklinuxstb vbr mp3s, non stop playbacl
21:06:08linuxstbdsheets: I guess you've seen the IPL wiki page about the protocol?
21:06:38dsheetslinuxstb, yep. I've built the hardware and I've tested everything up to the dock connector with a loopback
21:07:09perl|worklinuxstb, mp3s with full EQ on gives me about 14 hours in rockbox
21:07:23dsheetslinuxstb, I don't seem to get any data to or from the iPod, though. I've sent the Apple Accessory Protocol commands, /dev/random, and various other things
21:07:29dsheetslinuxstb, with no effect
21:08:08PaulJambtw, is there actually a reason that there is a %al tag for the wps? i mean, isn't the text aligned at the left side by default?
21:08:38dsheetsand I can't find any reference to the "serial controller" at 0x700060xx in a disassembled Apple firmware
21:08:55dsheetsthat's supposedly where the controller is for PP5020's
21:09:32***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21:09:44dsheetsI'm playing with a mini and a nano 1g and getting no love
21:10:01linuxstbSorry, I can't help.
21:10:06 Join efyx [0] (
21:10:19linuxstbDo you own any real accessories?
21:10:26dsheetsno :-(
21:10:36dsheetserm... a USB connector
21:11:06dsheetsnothing that uses serial, though
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21:11:51linuxstbHave you been disassembling the main firmware, or the diagnostics mode code?
21:12:10dsheetsThe main firmware, I believe
21:12:20dsheetsIt was on the drive in the firmware partition
21:12:31linuxstbThe 5MB or so image?
21:12:32l2eM1x[02:08 PM] PaulJam: btw, is there actually a reason that there is a %al tag for the wps? i mean, isn't the text aligned at the left side by default?
21:12:43l2eM1xPaulJam: are you talking to me?
21:12:54dsheetslinuxstb, no, it's like 80MB
21:12:59PaulJamno, this was just a general question
21:13:22l2eM1xwell as a general response I really have no idea haha
21:13:33l2eM1xit has to go in order from left center right
21:13:48linuxstbdsheets: 80MB is the entire partition. On a Nano that contains 3 images - "OSOS" (the main firmware), "AUPD" (an encrypted copy of the firmware written to flash), and "RSRC" (datafiles related to the Nike feature).
21:13:49l2eM1xmaybe its just to keep standards
21:13:53 Join DarkRedFlame [0] (
21:13:59linuxstbdsheets: This page may be helpful -
21:14:08dsheetslinuxstb, sweet, thanks so much
21:14:15linuxstbI'm assuming diagnostics mode has serial port code...
21:14:30linuxstbIt's only around 100KB, so should be more manageable...
21:14:31 Join miepchen^schlaf [0] (
21:14:48DarkRedFlameHey will you be working on a firmware for a Creative Zen Nano, or Vision
21:14:49dsheetsso, in diag mode on the nano there is no serial/remote diagnostics
21:14:55dsheetsbut I think there might be on the mini
21:15:41 Join crop [0] (i=95e13c54@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
21:15:50*petur looks for somebody with keymap knowledge: on H300, ACTION_STD_OK is listed 3 times: release select, press right and release on -> so any of those three should trigger STD_OK, right?
21:16:29linuxstbpetur: Yes, many buttons can map to one action
21:16:51peturhmmmm.... I must be overlooking something
21:17:11peturah... wrong context, silly me
21:17:57Lloreanlinuxstb: Do you know, was jhMikes' commit fixing the weird sound on that file?
21:18:13peturbah... CONTEXT_TREE maps BUTTON_ON to ACTION_NONE
21:18:19amiconnlinuxstb: Thanks, that was quick. Could have checked myself though; was just grepping for CONFIG_BACKLIGHT :/
21:18:21Lloreanlinuxstb: Also just to chime in on something discussed hours ago, I think the main menu's generally short enough that a "Shut Down" option wouldn't be clutter.
21:18:53SliMMdid JdGordon finish his work on coloured icons?
21:19:16amiconnpetur: It needs to map the actual press to ACTION_NONE whenever the button is either separated for short/long press, or is both used alone (short press only) and for combos
21:19:40croplinuxstb: and one more chime in: constants in and should be moved to target tree
21:19:55peturamiconn: thnx
21:20:37amiconnIn case of the tree context, On+Up/Down scrolls by page, so that's the reason
21:21:27 Join rotator [0] (n=e@rockbox/developer/rotator)
21:22:25linuxstbLlorean: I haven't tried his fix, but I think it should do it.
21:22:31linuxstbamiconn: You're welcome.
21:22:57DarkRedFlameWill you be makinga Rockbox Firmware for the Creative Zen Vision?
21:23:16 Quit crop ("CGI:IRC 0.5.7 (2005/06/19)")
21:23:18l2eM1xdarkred: are you going to write it?
21:23:18linuxstbLlorean: You don't consider menu option that's available as a button press in every screen clutter? I know people want a shutdown option, but I'm not convinced it deserves a place in the main menu...
21:23:44Lloreanlinuxstb: Almost any other button I would consider clutter.
21:24:02DarkRedFlameI would love to write it if I knew what I was doing, haha
21:24:06linuxstbDarkRedFlame: Owners of devices port Rockbox - so far no owners of the Zen Vision have.
21:24:31DarkRedFlameHmm, I'll stick with my Sansa then for a while
21:24:39Lloreanlinuxstb: But somehow to me Shutting Down just doesn't feel cluttery. It's just a case of personal opinion though, I can easily see how it is, it just isn't to me.
21:24:58linuxstbLlorean: I'm just surprised - you're normally one of the first to object to such ideas...
21:25:05perl|workamiconn it always seemed weird to me, when you ON+down/up to scroll a page, it starts playing the track it stops at
21:25:26 Quit miepchen^schlaf (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
21:25:36GuardianHeadLlorean are you the one who modded rockbox to have a shut down option on the main menu?
21:25:38perl|workplus on gigabeat ON+... operations are not safe :P you can easily shut down the device
21:25:41LloreanGuardianHead: Nope.
21:25:46GuardianHeadok thanks.
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21:26:01GuardianHeadI think maybe it was midkay around buddy?
21:26:09perl|workstill puzzles me, why A and POWER werent switched on gigabeat
21:26:09linuxstbperldiver: Then Rockbox shouldn't map actions to ON+...
21:26:11DarkRedFlameOh yeah for "Rockboy" I go to General Settings > View Files > Supported, correct?
21:26:39perl|worklinuxstb, yes, it was an old idea, to switch POWER and A buttons on gigabeat
21:27:03linuxstbI'm still a little lost with the gigabeat's mappings...
21:27:30LloreanPower and A need to be switched.
21:27:42perl|workLlorean i concur
21:27:55linuxstbThen somebody write the patch...
21:28:03LloreanI think there's one in the tracker
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21:28:28Stalwarti saw ipod backlight commit in log and have question - why the hell bootloader needs to enable backlight?
21:28:30RincewindLlorean: do you want a shut down menu option even for devices that have a button for it?
21:28:34perl|workbut page scrolling, is playing the track right away is the default behaviour?
21:28:45LloreanRincewind: For consistency's sake, yes.
21:28:56linuxstbStalwart: Why the hell not?
21:29:05LloreanPersonally, I would prefer to use a menu option than a button anyway.
21:29:07linuxstbIt tells you that it's working.
21:29:19RincewindI wouldn't like that, because I like to wrap around the list to go to the items that come last in the list
21:29:26l2eM1xi would prefer a menu option myself
21:29:29amiconnI don't want a shutdown item in the menu for targets which don't need it
21:29:32l2eM1xas long as it wasnt easy to press
21:29:34Stalwartlinuxstb: then firmware should light up backlight for the first time without fade
21:29:43l2eM1xon accident that is
21:29:44amiconnIt just clutters the menu
21:29:47Lloreanlinuxstb: The "System" context menu could have it.
21:30:01Stalwartright now, with fade enabled, powering up my nano looks stupid - it lights up two times
21:30:01p512ohowdy! thanks for the sansa port!! got it running on my e250 quite nicely..
21:30:05linuxstbLlorean: Or just the top item in the System menu.
21:30:06Rincewindand I would hate it when I accidentally shut down my player when navigating the menu without looking too closely on the screen
21:30:13Lloreanlinuxstb: Either way, yes.
21:30:15GuardianHead!seen mikachu
21:30:20l2eM1xcould it be on the very bottom of the screen
21:30:20GuardianHeadseen mikachu
21:30:29*linuxstb not seen mikachu for a while
21:30:31l2eM1xlike hooked to the bottom - still on the main menu but at the bottom?
21:30:40perl|workl2eM1x theres always a list wrap...
21:30:40l2eM1xthen it wouldnt clutter the menu
21:30:41p512oi'd like to know if there's anything a newbie like me could do to get a microsd driver into rockbox..
21:30:42GuardianHeadlinuxstb he still come in here?
21:30:43amiconnThe only target that really needs it is the archos player. Annoying thing, that shutdown item....
21:30:50linuxstbGuardianHead: Not recently...
21:30:57l2eM1xi hate shutting down my ipod
21:31:03l2eM1xits a real pain in the but sometimes with a cover on
21:31:06perl|workamigan gigabeat shutdown is sort of weird as well
21:31:28p512oi got only basic c knowledge, no experience with hardware/driver progarmming.. but i have had some years of delphi programming
21:31:38RincewindI wouldn't mind to have shut down on the context menu for system
21:31:55Stalwarti need to set up toolchain and start hacking and commiting patches...
21:32:04Rincewindcould be useful if someday the stop button breaks...
21:32:11Stalwartif noone listen to me, then i must make fixes myself ;[
21:32:12l2eM1xanybody with a ipod 5.5 g willing to test a wps for me?
21:32:16p512oi'm running linux and got the toolchain installed.. but how could i figure out how to get microsd slot working?
21:32:28linuxstbStalwart: I don't have a Nano, so have never seen that effect...
21:32:32Stalwartp512o: ghm, read docs on chip and code?
21:32:47p512onot yet.. you mean the infos by daniel?
21:32:57 Quit Xerion (" ")
21:33:02GuardianHeadis there any way to search the irc logs?
21:33:23Stalwartlinuxstb: is there a howto about setting up toolchain on linux amd64?
21:33:30p512oStalwart: afaik the micro sd is controlled by some custom sandisk chip
21:33:38desowinStalwart: which distro ?
21:33:59linuxstbStalwart: It's the same in any Unix-like environment - download the Rockbox source code and run the tools/ script.
21:34:05Stalwartdesowin: arch64
21:34:05RincewindGuardianHead: go to, open a day you want to search and hit strg-f
21:34:11Stalwartlinuxstb: ok, i'll try
21:34:34linuxstbStalwart: There are plenty of "for developers" docs in the wiki - go to the index and follow the links...
21:35:03Stalwartok, i'll try
21:35:07 Quit elinenbe (" HydraIRC -> <- IRC for those that like to be different")
21:35:14*amiconn thinks we don't need a whole bunch of different ways to do the same things
21:35:17GuardianHeadRincewind wtf is strg-f
21:35:26l2eM1xi think
21:35:29amiconnThat's why I also don''t like the context menu in the menu
21:35:38Rincewindsorry, i am on a german keyboard
21:35:48DarkRedFlameIn FF Ctrl-F is what you use to open the Findmenu
21:35:51Rincewindit is ctrl-f of course
21:35:53GuardianHeadheh well I meant search the whole IRC log, not a single day
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21:35:58GuardianHeador at least a range of days
21:35:59amiconnSort of weird concept, what comes next? A context menu for the menu items of the context menu? ;\
21:36:17amiconncontext-context, and context-context-context .....
21:36:27linuxstbI agree with the no-duplication principle
21:36:27Lloreanamiconn: Well, people often complain of having a hard time finding things in the main menu. I can see a context menu improving that, though I don't think it's the best way to do so.
21:36:32p512owould i need jtag to develop an microsd driver? in order to examine the of. don't want to open my sansa. :)
21:36:36RincewindGuardianHead: you could download a few days, put them in one big file and then search them
21:37:01 Quit miepchen^schlaf (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
21:37:09Lloreanp512o: You could work on improving Toni's sansa emulator
21:37:19*Llorean thinks it's Toni's
21:37:30amiconnGuardianHead: What I do is having a local copy of all the irc log texts (downloaded via DTA in firefox) and then use grep on them
21:37:54SliMMcan i have direct acces to.. let's say the ipod's dock conector port?
21:38:05SliMMfrom within plugins
21:38:34p512oLlorean: how's that? would it run the of? so i would have to emulate the microsd hardware in the sim?
21:39:59Lloreanp512o: It doesn't run the OF fully yet, work needs to be done on that, but it gives you something safe to experiment with.
21:41:05p512oLlorean: okay.. that's good enough.. gonna have a look at this! There hasn't been any afford on developing an microsd driver yet, right?
21:41:14 Join ctaf [0] (
21:41:29linuxstbamiconn: I don't think of the main menu in the same way as other menus - the options aren't other menus, but the major screens in Rockbox. Which is why I think a context menu to control how those screens work is logical.
21:41:29 Part ctaf
21:41:45SliMMdoesn't anyone know?
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21:44:53LloreanSliMM: You'd probably have to add it to the api.
21:45:15SliMMllorean: i have no idea how to do that :))
21:46:48amiconnSliMM: Depends on what you define as 'direct access to the dock connector'
21:47:05dsheetsI don
21:47:13amiconnRockbox doesn't have resource protection, so a plugin can access any hardware directly it desires to
21:47:18dsheetsI don't suppose anyone has a spec sheet for the PP502x?
21:48:19SliMMamiconn: very good to know; if someone wants to tell me how i do tha , i would be grateful :P
21:48:24amiconnWhether this is desirable is another question; writing a driver and exposing the necessary functions via the api is the better way
21:48:46amiconnIt still depends on what you mean...
21:49:10amiconnIf you mean the serial port, then it's just that nobody knows how to do it on PP5020 and higher
21:51:21dsheetsamiconn, but serial comms with apple's firmware is known for those platforms, yes?
21:51:38pixelmalinuxstb: I don't really understand what you mean - with the new main menu all things that are "submenus" to this should be equal - so if all things would be the same, the file browser/database view would have to be in a context menu too? </semi-serious>
21:52:08 Join mar27 [0] (
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21:53:29 Join tech_to_be [0] (i=43bbe7a0@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
21:54:00tech_to_beHello, I am looking for a computer technician. Is anyone on here one?
21:54:42peturtech_to_be: wrong channel
21:55:01tech_to_bewell I was looking to interview someone
21:55:04tech_to_beit's for school
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21:55:23mar27I'm trying to install rockbox on a sansa e280 but when I run sansapatcher.exe it says no e200s found. is there anything I have to do to detedt it ?
21:55:26linuxstb_pixelma: I'm not sure what you mean either... I guess what I'm trying to say is that I still think of it as a root menu, which branches into the different areas of Rockbox. But it seems I'm alone in thinking it's a root menu, or even wanting one....
21:55:59 Quit tech_to_be (Client Quit)
21:56:23linuxstb_mar27: Is it in MSC mode?
21:56:56mar27linuxstb: it is on msd mode now
21:57:26mar27linuxstb: what is or how can i get it to msc mode ?
21:58:34linuxstb_It's the mode that isn't MTP - i.e. your Sansa should appear as a proper drive (e.g. E:\) in Windows.
21:58:53linuxstb_But I don't own a Sansa, so can't tell you exactly what to do.
21:59:06Bagderit's a setting somewhere in the menu
21:59:37mar27hum let me check
21:59:42Bagdereven the sandisk update tool requires msc mode
22:00:17dsheetsdoes anyone have an old iPod's internal rom?
22:00:36linuxstb_You mean a PP5002 version?
22:00:55SliMMamiconn: you told me earlyer today that all lcd drivers do proper cliping
22:01:20SliMMamiconn: i do it because there is no need to draw pixels outside the screen
22:01:57dsheetslinuxstb, no. PP5020 but with a diagmode that has a remote control test function
22:02:03desowinpetur: have you _ever_ got segfault of QTScrobbler ?
22:02:28dsheetslinuxstb, like from a 4g
22:03:14peturdesowin: no
22:04:05desowincrazy thing, I got backtrace from one guy, I have no single idea how he did this, and he tells that it happens everytime :/
22:04:45johnnyoc3i have a 4g if you need some file
22:05:31dsheetsjohnnyoc3, could you run rockbox, enter the diag menu, dump the internal rom and send me the file?
22:05:49DarkRedFlameI cant find the pacman roms, I searched everywhere on MAME, but failed
22:05:58johnnyoc3im using an old build with the previous menu structure is that ok?
22:06:30dsheetsjohnnyoc3, sure... so long as you can dump the rom
22:06:58bluebrotherdsheets: you're working on the serial port of the ipods?
22:07:01linuxstb_DarkRedFlame: This channel isn't for discussing where to get game ROMS.
22:07:19pixelmahmm.. linuxstb are you saying that for example the filebrowser should have a context menu where you could choose the fileview options or database view with a context menu to initialise etc.? Well then I understood the context menu thing wrong... but then these options can be taken out of the general settings/wherever so that they aren't doubled - is that the plan?
22:07:24dsheetsbluebrother, yes
22:07:42johnnyoc3damn my HD is acting up...i just fixed it too!
22:07:44dsheetsbluebrother, USB on the side, too
22:07:54 Join kaaloo [0] (
22:07:57bluebrotherhow far did you get? I was thinking about looking into the serial stuff too
22:08:00 Part kaaloo
22:08:15bluebrotherI'm just lacking the time atm, but hopefully in a month or so I might find it
22:08:20dsheetsbluebrother, right now I can't even control the iPod using apple's firmware and a breakout board i built
22:08:37linuxstb_pixelma: Yes, that's the type of context menu we're talking about - jdgordon posted a patch earlier which implements them. I'm not 100% convinced by them though - the duplication of the settings there and in the Settings menu isn't nice.
22:08:44bluebrotherusing the serial cable? IPL has information about this
22:08:49dsheetsbluebrother, that's probably some small bug somewhere... I'm going to go find an oscilloscope and watch the lines later tonight maybe
22:08:57dsheetsbluebrother, yeah... i've been all over IPL
22:09:13bluebrotherok, then I don't need to mention it anymore ;-)
22:09:19mar27linuxstb: thanks I was able to install it, is there a way I can have dual boot ?
22:09:34linuxstb_mar27: You've got it...