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#rockbox log for 2007-04-17

00:01:47 Quit Xerion (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:05:16 Quit midkay ("Leaving")
00:05:39 Quit jgarvey ("Leaving")
00:12:56Nico_Pare there objections about (custom line height in the WPS) ?
00:13:35bluebrotherI'm really wondering if that is necessary
00:14:11bluebrotherit will mostly only solve a user problem (and I doubt it will get used much)
00:14:26pixelmaI bet this will become superfluent once there are viewports
00:14:43Nico_Ppixelma: I don't think so
00:14:49 Quit Siltaar (Remote closed the connection)
00:15:06bluebrotherwith viewports you could put every line in a separate viewport
00:15:09pixelmawhat would you use it for then?
00:15:18bluebrotherwhich would have the desired effect
00:15:28Nico_Pbluebrother: I see it as a good way to avoid things like
00:15:49Nico_Pbluebrother: IMHO one viewport per line is overkill
00:15:56bluebrotherIMO we should rather thing about a packaged themes format so the needed fonts come bundled
00:15:58amiconnHmm, petur is gone :\
00:16:21bluebrotherinstead of fixing a symptom
00:16:28pixelmawhat? but that tag would have to do the same (define a height for each line)
00:16:42Nico_Pbluebrother: and it would also fix dancepuffduo
00:16:51amiconnAnyone wants to test the win32 sim unicode patch?
00:16:52Nico_Ppixelma: it's one tag in the WPS
00:16:53bluebrotherNico_P, it might be overkill, but people will do it ;-)
00:17:08bluebrotherdancepuffduo should get fixed properly
00:17:19Nico_Ppixelma: it defines the height no just for one line, but for the entire WPS
00:17:24pixelmaNico_P: the correct fix for DancePuffDuo is a nimbus-13
00:17:32bluebrotheri.e. by adjusting a font to it or adjusting dancepuffduo to a different font
00:17:56bluebrotherthat task seems like fixing a symptom instead of a problem to me
00:18:09pixelmaI started that - but it's only nimbus-12 with an extra blank line
00:18:29pixelma(I'm not sure if it's worth committing)
00:20:03 Join Llorean [0] (n=Llorean@rockbox/administrator/Llorean)
00:20:08Nico_Pbluebrother, pixelma: it shouldn't add a lot to the binsize... it's quite a trivial patch
00:20:36Nico_Pand I remember ot being requested at least once in the forums
00:20:37bluebrotheryes, but it adds complexity one way or another
00:20:42Nico_Pbluebrother: not much
00:20:51Nico_Pit's just one optional tag
00:20:52bluebrotherscrolling margins has been requested much more often ...
00:21:16Llorean%lh helps with viewports too.
00:21:26Nico_Pbluebrother: agreed but that's a much more complex patch, that is perfectly adressed by viewports
00:21:28bluebrotherand adding to the bin size still adds to the bin size ...
00:21:28LloreanIt makes the vertical alignment no longer dependent on font size.
00:21:52bluebrotheryou can do vertical alignment completely with viewports
00:22:00LloreanWith viewports to accomplish the same thing you'd need a viewport for every line in the WPS
00:22:01bluebrotherand I bet most theme designers will use that
00:22:16pixelmaI'm not sure what amiconn has in mind how to handle this...
00:22:48bluebrothermost of these fancy themes don't have much text lines either.
00:22:54LloreanI think a single wps tag, especially one that is a very minimal modification to the code, is preferable to 30 viewports just to accomplish the same effect.
00:22:55bluebrotherMuch more conditional images
00:23:10Nico_Pbluebrother: if they have a simpler way of doing it, they won't use one viewport per line
00:23:26bluebrotherI don't think so.
00:23:54bluebrotherif you have a tag that creates a viewport and positions absolutely, they will use it because they need to use it anyway
00:24:05bluebrotherinstead of looking up another tag.
00:24:25Lloreanbluebrother: But what if I want my WPS to have a viewport for "Artist: Album: Track" (3 lines), spaced a certain way, but don't want to care what font they use?
00:24:43LloreanI could do 3 viewports, or I could do one since the %lh tag exists.
00:24:50amiconnAnyway, here's the patch:">
00:25:05bluebrotheryou will still get problems with the font size
00:25:17pixelmaNico_P: also a minor thing %lh is already used...
00:25:18bluebrotherif the font is too big it will crop at the bottom
00:25:26bluebrotherregardless of any height tag.
00:25:26pixelmait's the virtual led tag
00:25:42Lloreanbluebrother: Yes, but it'll be clearer the font is too big to the user, rather than looking like an alignment/rendering problem
00:25:51Nico_Ppixelma: oops... then I might need to change that
00:26:04bluebrotherI don't think that would make anything clearer
00:26:20amiconnI didn't try to build on linux with that patch applied, but I don't expect problems
00:26:20elinenbeNico_P: You should aim for pixel placement −− sort of like viewports... for all text, etc in the WPS
00:26:20bluebrotherespecially if you set a font bigger than the selected height. Then the lines will overlap
00:26:32Lloreanbluebrother: How many times do people think that bad WPS rendering is a bug because the fields don't align with the boxes used in the backdrop?
00:26:47Nico_Pelinenbe: that's too complex and not wanted currently
00:26:52elinenbethe whole "lines" thing is getting a little bit out of control.
00:27:06bluebrotheryes, but the proper fix to this user problem is to create a theme format that contains everything needed
00:27:11Lloreanbluebrother: Assuming use of the %al/r/c tag, a too large font would cause them to overlap the background fields but clearly be too long, and cropped at the bottom, I think that's a less subtle hint than them being in a completely different screen position as they are now.
00:27:17bluebrotherinstead of the multiple-files approach
00:27:39LloreanWhat does the multiple-files approach have to do with line-based text positioning?
00:27:39Nico_Pbluebrother: I agree on the contained themes, but that's really unrelated
00:27:42bluebrotheryou really think the average user will understand that?
00:28:00 Quit joa ("( :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: )")
00:28:05Lloreanbluebrother: I think *more* users will, since most users don't think of "Font size" as the same thing as "Text positioning"
00:28:14Nico_Pbluebrother, pixelma: the patch currently adds ~200 bytes to the gigabeat binsize
00:28:16bluebrotherI think contained themes are pretty much related: once we have contained theme files the "wrong font" issue won't appear anymore
00:28:17LloreanSo if the text is positioned in the same place, but too big, that's clearer than if it's in the wrong place.
00:28:31Lloreanbluebrother: You suggest including a copy of the font for every theme that uses it then?
00:28:48LloreanI don't see that as a very positive solution
00:29:03bluebrotherthat's much easier to the average user, and there is one thing we have plenty of on the player: disk space
00:29:16elinenbebluebrother: agreed... fonts are so small anyway
00:29:24Nico_Pbluebrother: with the tag, WPS creators will stop designing themes around a font, but only around a max line height... that'll give much more flexibility to users in their font choice
00:29:27Lloreanbluebrother: Some of our players are 2gb, or 1gb
00:29:35LloreanOn those, a 500k-1mb font is not insignificant.
00:29:38elinenbea theme should be entirely contained
00:29:42bluebrotheryou could also create a theme file excluding fonts and use the default fonts folder as fallback
00:29:51pixelmathat also has its problems - if a few wps use the same font you'll end up with unneeded copies
00:29:54amiconnelinenbe: Fonts are small?? Check the size of e.g. unifont.fnt ...
00:30:03Lloreanbluebrother: And then the same thing happens, a theme that doesn't have a font present in the default, and the author didn't want to duplicate it.
00:30:25Lloreanbluebrother: As soon as you allow the user to opt-out of including the font, you reintroduce the possibility of the problem, meaning it's not "solved". Users can already include the font in their theme zip, and don't.
00:30:28bluebrotherthe themes could also be distributed in a format that gets installed by a plugin
00:30:44bluebrotherI already created a plugin to do so, but it doesn't seem there was much interest.
00:30:50Nico_Pamiconn: what do you think about line height in relation to viewports ? would viewports make it unnecessary ?
00:30:52amiconnLlorean: The Ondio has just 128MB of built-in storage, and that's where /.rockbox and hence themes reside
00:31:19bluebrotherLlorean, a theme file can always be broken by some missing files
00:31:24Lloreanamiconn: Ah, yes, I *knew* there was something smaller, but my brain isn't quite moving yet (if it ever is, I seem to overlook the Ondio often, but I intend to try to get one)
00:31:43Lloreanbluebrother: Yes, but the line height patch means it can't be broken as easily.
00:31:54bluebrotherI tend to disagree :)
00:32:03amiconnI would still say that disk space is a rather large resource on our targets, but wasting it isn't good
00:32:05elinenbeunifont is the largest at 1.4MB but for the most part they are much, much smaller.
00:32:05bluebrotherthere are enough other places to break a theme
00:32:10Lloreanbluebrother: But you're wrong, the evidence is there.
00:32:25elinenbeyou can fit every font into the space of less than one song.
00:32:27bluebrotherevidence for what exactly?
00:32:39Lloreanbluebrother: If even one less theme is broken by missing fonts, then my statement is true: They can still be broken, but not as easily, because leaving off fonts is the most common install mistake that still allows rockbox to run.
00:32:46elinenbethemes are always broken by missing fonts.
00:32:58Lloreanelinenbe: Not with the line-height patch.
00:32:58bluebrotherthen create a format that installs itself on the player
00:32:59elinenbeand on the WPS page, it requires you to upload the font with the WPS.
00:33:02elinenbeWhy is that?
00:33:06 Quit funky ("leaving")
00:33:11bluebrotherand include the font in that theme package.
00:33:18elinenbeMake sure to give the font you use (or include a theme file) to view your WPS with. Otherwise it won't look right to anyone else.
00:33:21amiconnBtw, collecting the ton of small files (read: wps bitmaps) belonging to a theme nowadays into one file will save significant amounts of disk space
00:33:30Lloreanelinenbe: Because any theme that uses %al/c/r for positioning (not spaces) will work with any font smaller or equal than its current one with the line height. Currently it has to be equal only
00:33:48amiconnEven a 1-byte file occupies a whole cluster on a fat(32) volume, and a cluster can be as large as 32KB
00:33:48elinenbeyes... if a centered font is what you are looking for?
00:33:52bluebrotherthe installation problem caused of fonts is more related because we ship themes with the builds but fonts separately
00:33:55elinenbelet's say you want something bottom justified?
00:33:55 Part Lars_G ("Leaving")
00:34:10amiconnBut fonts are definitely not suitable to be put into a theme file
00:34:12bluebrotherthere shouldn't be themes in the builds but a separate extras package that includes fonts and themes IMO
00:34:32elinenbeamiconn: fonts are part of the theme though? Themes on Windows include fonts... same with kde if you want.
00:34:42Lloreanelinenbe: I didn't say it would necessarily look the same, just that it won't be "broken", as in, it can still functionally be used.
00:35:03bluebrotherstill, if you have some format that installs itself duplicates won't be a prlblem
00:35:11 Join alberink [0] (
00:35:23elinenbeeh... I think a theme/wps should be designed for a certain font. Who is really using different fonts then what is supposed to be used/what comes with it?
00:35:24bluebrotheras replacing a font by the same font unsurprisingly doesn't make a difference.
00:35:44amiconnYes, but having several themes which use the same font would mean the font is stored multiple times on disk - and fonts can be rather large files
00:35:56elinenbeamiconn: only in a couple cases.
00:35:58bluebrotherLlorean, users will still consider it broken (because it's different than the screenshots) and whine about it.
00:36:00Lloreanelinenbe: I have several themes I'd like to use with different fonts (smaller) so that I get more in the menus, and the line height patch keeps the WPS from breaking (specifically progress bar position, etc)
00:36:07amiconnBesides, the font file is accessed dynamically, so not easy to stuff into another file
00:36:25Lloreanbluebrother: I still think "The font looks different" is a much more intuitive problem than "the words are under the album art"
00:36:34bluebrotheramiconn, then what's the problem with creating theme installation packages?
00:37:00bluebrotherLlorean, the current situation at least shows clearly there's something wrong
00:37:03Lloreanelinenbe: I also have several themes that I *do* use with other fonts, because they're text-only (no images)
00:37:16elinenbelook at the WPSs on the WPS page... most (all?) come with fonts −− we are looking at 50k... 150k for the most part. That's not a big deal.
00:37:21bluebrotherwe had a bug report in the tracker once from a user with zezayer and rockbox_default.fnt
00:37:30Lloreanbluebrother: I think if the user can make the connection to "fonts" they're more likely to investigate the right area without filing a bug report first, though
00:37:59bluebrotherhe claimed the Rockbox logo in the lower right edge to be too big
00:37:59Lloreanelinenbe: Most come with fonts? On which WPS page?
00:37:59bluebrotherthe theme itself works fine with the default font ...
00:38:19bluebrotherI don't believe an average user will make the connection to the font
00:38:27elinenbethe mistic river forums and our forums are also filled with "why doesn't my WPS look like that?" type questions.
00:38:37bluebrotherrather display a splash when the required font isn't found while loading a theme
00:38:41elinenbeI agree with bluebrother.
00:39:12Lloreanbluebrother: That still doesn't cover the *added* functionality of the line-height patch.
00:39:13elinenbeI don't think anyone minds the extra hard drive space... if it ends up "just working"
00:39:15bluebrotherbut adding some strange workaround will only create new side effects, and users will be somewhat "surprised" by them and not understand.
00:39:20Lloreanelinenbe: Yes, we do.
00:39:26Lloreanelinenbe: Or at least I do, and I'm someone.
00:39:29bluebrotherdo we need that functionality? Do we even want it?
00:39:32Lloreanbluebrother: I do.
00:39:55bluebrotherok, but how about the others? I don't consider this functionality useful
00:39:55Lloreanbluebrother: I have several themes (one per player) all of which would benefit from allowing me to choose a smaller font, and would not break positioning because of it.
00:40:15amiconnSomething is wrong with the icons stuff
00:40:25amiconnViewer icons don't work right on H1x0
00:40:26Nico_Pbluebrother: I don't consider this a workaround... actually I wonder why it wasn't there frome the start
00:40:40bluebrotherthere are no viewer icons for greyscale yet
00:40:46Lloreanbluebrother: If you have line-based positioning, you should absolutely be able to define line-height instead of leaving it dependent.
00:40:55bluebrotherand I don't think JdGordon made it fall back to the mono bitmaps
00:41:08amiconnmidi files should have a single note icon, but on the main lcd they have no icon at all and on the remote they have a question mark ??!!
00:41:40bluebrotherI still disagree.
00:41:41elinenbeLlorean: I am talking about the "average" user, and you can seriously say you care about 50kb? 100kb?
00:41:46 Join midkay [0] (n=midkay@rockbox/developer/midkay)
00:42:04bluebrotherwith like a line based curses interface you can't set the spacing as well
00:42:28Lloreanelinenbe: No, the caring starts at 500kb wasted or more.
00:42:45Lloreanelinenbe: But fonts do pass that mark, especially the useful ones (more unicode)
00:42:58amiconnelinenbe: I do, at least for the installation packages, on Ondio
00:43:01bluebrotherthen consider on-device theme installation packages ;-)
00:43:31 Quit midgey ()
00:43:39bluebrotheramiconn, caring for theme size too? Or only binary size?
00:43:49amiconnAnd that's not because of the file size of, say, 500KB, but due to the slow writing. It takes quite some time to unzip a build to the Ondio (note: I'm not talking about fullzips!)
00:44:27bluebrotherI proposed removing the themes from current build zips on the ml recently ...
00:44:32LloreanNico_P: How much more would it add to make the line-height tag also allow specification of centered, top, or bottom?
00:44:40 Join alienbiker99 [0] (
00:45:05bluebrotherthe disk in my h120 is kinda slow too, so not overwriting the themes on every update would be nice for me too (though I guess the ondio is slower ;-)
00:45:21Nico_PLlorean: you do mean for all the lines ? not much
00:45:22amiconnh120 is blazingly fast compared to the Ondio
00:45:24 Join Xerion [0] (
00:45:30amiconnEven when you use an USB1.1 port
00:45:37bluebrotherhehe. I knew that :)
00:45:49 Quit jhulst_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:45:51alienbiker99hey does anybody have an extra working H120 motherboard that they would be willing to seel
00:45:59LloreanNico_P: Yeah, for all lines.
00:46:15bluebrotheranyway, I'm planning to make a patch to do that change when I find time. Still waiting for comments on that mail
00:46:25LloreanNico_P: That solves elinenbe's "what if you want bottom justified" question, and I think does make it a little nicer possibly.
00:46:27 Join wossi [0] (i=whopper@2001:5c0:84dc:1:2:0:0:0)
00:46:35 Part wossi
00:46:41Nico_PLlorean: pretty easy... just one char more and in the code it would be quite trivial
00:46:49Lloreanbluebrother: I haven't seen your email. Is it in the mailing list archive?
00:46:58LloreanNico_P: I thought so.
00:47:17bluebrotherLlorean, yes:
00:47:32elinenbeI think instead of adding all the kludges, focus should be on viewports, or x,y positioning for anything on the WPS...
00:47:47LloreanNico_P: Well, I'm strongly in favour of it, because I at least think it would be useful as a themeing tool (even ignoring whether or not it reduces confusion from missing fonts)
00:48:03Nico_Pelinenbe: I'm not working on viewports... time I spend on this won't be lost for them
00:48:13bluebrotherit would help for theming if it would only affect the current line imo.
00:48:27Lloreanelinenbe: As well, the line height thing is still useful with viewports, as it reduces the number of viewports that will need to be defined.
00:48:34LloreanAnd I can almost guarantee more viewports == worse performance.
00:48:45Nico_Pbluebrother: it could quite easily
00:48:48LloreanI can't imagine it not being the case.
00:49:07Lloreanbluebrother: Are you saying it's absolutely useless as is now?
00:49:36LloreanOr did you mean "it would help more for theming"?
00:49:54bluebrotheras far as I understood amiconn viewports shouldn't be slower than the current wps
00:50:06bluebrotherLlorean, I don't think it would help more for theming
00:50:33LloreanLlorean: No, I mean, do you think current-line only is the only way it could help
00:50:45LloreanI can see many uses, just in my own themes, for line height, so I can't imagine it not helping.
00:50:59elinenbeI have a question... we already have x,y positioning for bmps −− how much effort is necessary for x,y positioning of text and fonts?
00:51:09Lloreanelinenbe: Much more
00:51:17Lloreanelinenbe: Also, you can't position a font. :-P
00:51:24bluebrotherI can imagine it helping more if it does affect only the current line instead of all lines
00:51:25amiconnLlorean: The number of viewports should have no influence on performance as long as the calling code doesn't redefine them continuously (which would drain power in the caller, btw. The lcd code still wouldn't care)
00:51:25Lloreanelinenbe: The problem with absolute positioning is line scrolling.
00:51:48bluebrotherif it affects only one line it only cures a symptom, but not the issue itself
00:52:10Nico_Pbluebrother: it affects all lines ATM
00:52:16Lloreanamiconn: I would expect the constant extra bounds checking to at least be an issue?
00:52:29Lloreanbluebrother: Stop calling it a "cure"
00:52:34Lloreanbluebrother: It offers new functionality as well.
00:52:35 Quit ender` (" I have the heart of a small boy. I keep it in a jar on my desk.")
00:52:45bluebrotherI still consider it a such.
00:52:46amiconnLlorean: Why? It checks bounds against the current viewport.
00:53:16amiconnI think the line height tag is unnecessary, as defining that for every line adds many tags to a wps
00:53:25Lloreanamiconn: I guess I don't know. I apologize.
00:53:38Lloreanamiconn: The current one is an absolute line height, it sets the height for the whole WPS.
00:53:59amiconnViewports won't make line-based layout superfluous; the advantage of lined-based layout is that the caller doesn't have to care much about line hieght
00:54:02LloreanI think it makes vertical positioning much more flexible.
00:54:29Lloreanamiconn: And I think being able to say "The line height for this WPS is 12px, no matter which font you use (even if it's only 8)" is something that is needed with line-based layout.
00:54:36amiconnIf someone wants to place certain lines differently, he will be able to use a viewport.
00:54:59LloreanAll it does is untie the line height of the WPS from the font-height, currently
00:55:17amiconnWhy would you ever want to do that?
00:55:28bluebrotherand ties it to some arbitrary value (which might cause other problems)
00:55:30Lloreanamiconn: So I can use smaller fonts in several of my WPSes?
00:55:43 Quit lee-qid ("aufwiederbyebientotsayonara")
00:56:03amiconnMaking the line higher than the font wastes space, and making it smaller makes the text unreadable because of overlap
00:56:40Lloreanamiconn: Making the line height the same as the set font means the WPS looks the same. But allows users to pick a smaller font if they like the layout of the WPS, don't want to have to design new graphics, and want more lines in the menu.
00:57:11Nico_Pamiconn: some people like light design
00:57:15 Quit Hammer89 (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
00:57:43LloreanIt makes WPSes less dependent on font
00:57:43amiconnGah, the icon code can't work properly as it is :(
00:57:47bluebrotherwhich could be done with viewports
00:57:49LloreanIt doesn't remove the dependency but it does lessen it.
00:58:07 Join Hammer89 [0] (
00:58:21Lloreanbluebrother: With viewports, EVERY WPS would have to make one viewport for every single line, for the same effect as this patch.
00:58:23Nico_PI've tossed the idea in the ML... I have to go to bed now
00:58:52Lloreanbluebrother: With this patch a user can add it to their WPS with one tag if they decide they want to add it to an existing WPS, rather than rewriting every single line to include a viewport definition
00:59:12amiconnCasting remote icons to fb_data is wrong for sure
00:59:31Lloreanbluebrother: As far as I'm concerned, defining 20 viewports is the workaround.
01:00:11Nico_Pthat's how I feel too... viewports can't be the answer to *everything*
01:00:39Nico_Pand this is a eally simple but useful feature
01:00:39amiconnLlorean: Just to clarify, viewport will allow to define variable sub-rectangles of the lcd. Rectangles. There won't be a z-order or something like that
01:00:48 Part toffe82
01:00:55pixelmaNico_P: did you already change the "name" of the new tag? Otherwise I won't be able to test as my wps uses the virtual led tag...
01:01:01bluebrotherI don't think ther will be themes with 20 lines anyway
01:01:14Nico_Ppixelma: I'll post a new patch
01:01:30amiconnThat implies that the result of drawing into overlapping viewports will be undefined (well, it will be defined in that the last drawing operation wins)
01:01:34Lloreanbluebrother: It doesn't affect only one line.
01:01:37pixelmamaybe I'll test then
01:01:44Lloreanbluebrother: Shoot, I was scrolled up, wrong response, sorry
01:02:15 Join krazykit [0] (
01:02:48bluebrotherI just was referring to mentioning a "workaround" using 20 viewports. I don't think a theme will use 20 lines anyway
01:03:09Lloreanbluebrother: Even for 6 lines, it's less effort to add %lh 20 than to go through the WPS and adding a viewport definition for each and every line.
01:03:15alienbiker99doesnt that depend on the player, like the gigabeats have a long screen
01:03:21Nico_Pideas for the new name of the tag ?
01:03:25Lloreanalienbiker99: He means "Lines that contain visible text"
01:03:29alienbiker99oh ok
01:03:37bluebrothermost of these fancy themes use like 5 lines and use icons for the rest. And they will use absolute positioning with viewports anyway because it's completely independent of the font or some tag
01:03:53 Join andrewy [0] (
01:04:04Nico_Pok, it's %ls for now
01:04:14Lloreanbluebrother: You're making an assumption based on the majority of themes.
01:04:30Lloreanbluebrother: The majority of themes don't use the replaygain tag, the "album artist" tag, and a host of others.
01:04:33bluebrotheryes. On what should I base my assumption otherwise?
01:04:47LloreanAll themes.
01:04:50andrewymy iriver h320 won't power on unless it's plugged in when rockbox and the rockbox bootloader is installed. i've tried the 1.30eu, 1.28eu, and 1.28k firmware, but all have the same problem. anyone know how to fix this?
01:04:58bluebrotherviewports will have much more flexibility, so the themes will use that.
01:05:00Lloreanbluebrother: You're generalizing and saying "because it's not overall useful, it's not useful at all"
01:05:13Nico_PI have to go, gnight
01:05:16 Quit Nico_P (Remote closed the connection)
01:05:35Lloreanbluebrother: Viewports have much more flexibility, but are not the best tool for the problem. They're just the most flexible one.
01:05:36bluebrotherno, I think the result can get differently without adding some new tag that also has some limitations
01:05:47Lloreanbluebrother: There is a WPS buffer limit, yes?
01:05:56bluebrotherwhy are they not the best solution for the problem?
01:06:07LloreanBecause you need MORE THAN ONE, to solve the problem
01:06:16LloreanThe more you use, the less WPS size you have for anything else.
01:06:19bluebrotherthis heavily depends on the theme
01:06:34Lloreanbluebrother: Any theme that needs just ONE viewport, needs none.
01:06:37bluebrotherdo we already strip comments in the wps file when reading?
01:06:48LloreanWhat does stripping comments have to do with it?
01:07:05bluebrotherit will be rendered as viewport anyway, so it doesn't make that much of a difference.
01:07:30LloreanMy point is that if you have the problem, you either need a second viewport to solve it, or you need the %lh tag.
01:07:33bluebrotherit's just a question. Because if we don't we can still regain some buffer space
01:07:39LloreanIf you need a third viewport, then the %lh tag becomes more efficient.
01:07:43Lloreanbluebrother: We do strip comments.
01:07:55Lloreanbluebrother: And people still run into the limit on how large the WPS can be.
01:07:56bluebrothergood. Questions solved.
01:08:21bluebrotheryeah, but on what players? Anything that is non-color non-huge-lcd?
01:08:44Lloreanbluebrother: The buffers size allocated is based upon the screen size.
01:08:52LloreanLarger screens get more.
01:09:30bluebrotherspeaking of image buffers or text buffer?
01:09:30LloreanMy point is that you can either tell users "you have to waste space in your buffer on defining multiple viewports" or you can say "here, use this one tag that doest the exact same thing more efficiently"
01:09:34Lloreanbluebrother: Text
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01:09:44LloreanImage buffer is really easy to use up
01:09:53bluebrotherI know.
01:10:02LloreanPartially because we don't expand it when we add new codecs.
01:10:12bluebrotherbut I'm kinda used to other code ATM.
01:10:27LloreanI just think that you're assuming that since viewports is flexible enough to allow for a solution, that it's a good solution.
01:10:36LloreanViewports is a good solution for absolute positioning.
01:10:51LloreanBut for reducing the WPS dependence on font height, it's very well not.
01:11:06bluebrotherI don't think this is a good solution and I think it will be used rarely only, if it will be used at all.
01:11:40Lloreanbluebrother: There are plenty of WPSes in our gallery already that could make use of it effectively
01:11:47***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:12:10bluebrotherI don't think we will get to a point with this discussion.
01:12:12andrewyhow do you build the bootloader from svn?
01:12:29LloreanWhether the author chooses to is different, but plenty of WPSes _could_ benefit from it, and that's as good as you get with the replaygain tags.
01:12:29bluebrotherandrewy, like the build, just choose "bootloader" when configuring
01:12:46bluebrotherLlorean, plus, it's late here. Let's wait what the others say about this.
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01:12:57bluebrotherbut I'm still not convinced.
01:13:00andrewybluebrother: thanks
01:13:13bluebrotherit's always a tradeoff between flexibility and complexity.
01:13:26 Quit amigan ("Installing a zip drive. Yay!")
01:13:51bluebrotherand, as a professor said in some lecture I attended, "You need to die one death anyway"
01:14:17amiconnbluebrother: Viewports are not only for wps, by far
01:14:45Lloreanbluebrother: Yes, it always is.
01:14:53LloreanI agree, we're probably going to stay disagreeing on this one. :)
01:15:04LloreanAnd it's odd, I'm the one arguing to add "fluff" :-P
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01:15:25bluebrotherthat's indeed kinda odd ;-)
01:15:40LloreanBut it's entirely self-serving fluff!
01:16:01bluebrotherbut I'm out for some sleep now. It's quite late and I need to do some Java programming tomorrow (man, do I hate this)
01:16:21amiconnWhy does gcc not like my intended workaround for the screen bitmap functions?
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01:28:56amiconnhi JdGordon
01:29:10amiconnWhy are there no viewer icons displayed on my H180?
01:29:24amiconnThe main unit shows nothing, and the remote just shows question marks...
01:29:42JdGordonhave you got a viewers.bmp file in icons?
01:29:55JdGordonyou didnt fix screen_access.c last night :(
01:30:09amiconnI am about to; it's still nbight here
01:30:17amiconn1:30 am
01:30:28amiconnI also cleaned up icon.c
01:30:45amiconnUsing fb_data for the remote doesn't sound like the right way...
01:30:59 Quit pearldiver (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:31:06amiconnBtw, is there a reason why the question mark should only be displayed on the remote?
01:31:26amiconnfb_remote_data is a different type than fb_data
01:32:08amiconnI am using void* now, this at least points out that these pointers are generic, and no assumptions should be made about the data format
01:32:13JdGordonwell.. its just a pointer really..
01:33:00amiconnWhat about the question mark?
01:33:05JdGordonthe ? iss there because unless we introduce 2 .icons file (one for main and one for remote) its very possible that you load a main viewers.bmp but not remote so the icons are not available
01:33:14JdGordonbut showing no icon looks bad
01:33:16amiconnAnd why is get_icon_width() defined to return 6 for charcell?
01:33:44amiconnIf needed at all, it should return 1, everything else is wrong
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01:34:26amiconnWhy don't I have a viewers.bmp after installing the latest build (from a zip)?
01:34:58amiconnThis is going to confuse users...
01:35:38JdGordonyou should ave viewers.bmp
01:35:48amiconnThen why isn't it used?
01:35:59JdGordonand woops (get_icon_width())
01:36:03JdGordonit is used..
01:36:14JdGordonwhats your viewers iconset: line in the cfg?
01:37:41JdGordonand you definatly have the bmp in icons/?
01:37:43pixelmaJdGordon: I see no apps/plugins/bitmaps/viewer_defaults/viewers.6x8x2.bmp in your commit - maybe that's the problem with greyscale targets (?)
01:37:46JdGordonthis isnt charcell right?
01:38:04amiconnNo, only remote_viewers.bmp
01:38:14amiconnBut remote viewer icons don't work either
01:38:40JdGordonbah, pixelma is crrect
01:38:52pixelmaiirc Lear already pointed that out earlier
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01:40:27pixelmafunny it worked in the M5-sim
01:41:31pixelmahmm... maybe I haven't looked close enough
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01:44:03JdGordonseems to be working almost correctly now in the sim with the added bmp
01:44:12JdGordonremote viewer icon is off tho
01:44:15*amiconn confused his recorder and H180, and unzipped th erecorder build to the H180 :(
01:44:26JdGordonwell done :D
01:44:46amiconnToo many usb ports problem ;{
01:44:58 Quit roolku ()
01:45:14pixelmawell... wouldn't have happened that easily with the mini... :P
01:45:40pixelmaalthough... I take that back
01:46:38JdGordonwhat you need is a chep laptop with only 2 usb ports and which doesnt like usb hubs!
01:46:42JdGordonthen it doesnt happen
01:48:06amiconnviewer icons don't work on recorder either. All blank
01:48:14amiconn(but it doesn't crash anymore)
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01:48:52JdGordonsomething wierd is happening with the remote viewer icons which wasnt hapening last night :(
01:48:56andrewyanyone use an iriver h320 with rockbox?
01:49:01amiconnviewers.bmp is there
01:49:18JdGordonamiconn: and viewers.config is correct?
01:50:06amiconnLooks like it is
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01:55:28JdGordonamiconn: sorry, i gotta get to uni now, ill have a look later today
01:56:06*amiconn just committed the crash fix & cleanup
01:57:27job_hey does anyone have any experience with the mp3 encoder chip (the micronas MAS3587F)?
02:02:11job_anyone there?
02:02:36Lloreanjob_: If someone had the information you wanted, they'd have answered.
02:03:07LloreanIf they're around, that is
02:03:25amiconnjob_: I know the mas a bit, but I won't be around for long now, as it's already 2 am
02:03:58amiconnJdGordon: Should the .bmp extension be part of the setting (i.e. in the .cfg) or not?
02:04:14JdGordonfull path
02:04:29amiconnOkay, so appending .bmp a second time can't be right...
02:04:36JdGordonhehe no
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02:04:45job_amiconn: do you know if there is anything tricky with powering up the chip?
02:05:39JdGordonamiconn: yellow :)
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02:06:14amiconnBah, sure
02:06:36amiconnI knew I would be trapped by -Wundef one day...
02:08:08amiconnJdGordon: Lear's change caused the non-working default icons, but I don't really get which places should store the path in what way atm
02:10:18JdGordonah ok. they are standard filename settings.. so only the name is stored, the path and extension are added when they need to be used
02:10:43JdGordonif the setting[0] == - or \0 it should load the defaults..
02:10:47*JdGordon gone
02:12:10*amiconn thinks that a target with no main lcd will be fun to get warning-free with -Wundef in place... :\
02:15:43Hammer89can anyone here help me figure out what I'm doing wrong with trying to install a custom icon set?
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02:18:30kkurbjunanyone around who has a gigabeat X?
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02:26:41Hammer89*bangs head on table*
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02:27:21aliaskHaha, hammerhead...
02:27:44Hammer89it's all these custom icons fault :P
02:28:23LloreanHammer89: Have you tried looking at one of the completed sets and just modifying it?
02:28:49Hammer89I tried using the "Tango Theme" from here
02:29:17Hammer89I put both .bmp files and the .icons file in a folder called "icons" in the .rockbox folder
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02:29:45Hammer89and I ran the .cfg file... but it didn't do a thing
02:30:04aliaskTried restarting, sometimes that helps.
02:30:10Hammer89tried it
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02:30:23LloreanHammer89: And what SVN revision are you running?
02:30:25 Quit thals1992 (Client Quit)
02:30:47Hammer89the most recent... well... at least recent enough that it should have included the custom icons
02:31:20Hammer89I suppose I could try installing *the* latest version....
02:31:49LloreanAre your current icons the same color as your font, or black?
02:31:57LloreanAssuming non-black font
02:32:03Hammer89my font is black
02:32:22LloreanChange its color real quick, to just dark gray, and see if the current icons change color.
02:32:24Hammer89the current (default?) icons are also black
02:33:05Lloreankkurbjun: They can, or most of them would've been asking how to revert to an older build (most people don't know about the bootloader USB mode on Gigabeat, it's not automatic)
02:33:20Lloreankkurbjun: Or I'd guess they can, unless they're uninstalling Rockbox entirely each time
02:34:01Hammer89Llorean: it didn't work
02:34:13LloreanHammer89: What didn't work?
02:34:17LloreanYou can't change the font color?
02:34:22Hammer89oh... wait
02:34:29Hammer89to see if the default icons change color?
02:34:42Hammer89misread what you wrote :)
02:34:55kkurbjunLlorean, I was wondering if they are using the bootloader feature that allows them to swap the fwimg01.dat file so they can boot with the old fw
02:35:11Hammer89the font color and icon color changed
02:35:16Lloreankkurbjun: It's possible, I hadn't thought of that until right after I typed the line.
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02:35:21LloreanHammer89: You aren't using a build with custom icons.
02:35:35Hammer89let me go update then
02:35:40LloreanWell, you did say you had to make an icons folder
02:35:43LloreanThat was my first clue
02:35:59LloreanSeeing as it's included, 'n all. :-P
02:36:09LloreanIt's generally a good idea to make sure you're SVN current before asking for help
02:36:12Hammer89that could do it, I guess... ;)
02:36:31Hammer89I figured it was... I uploaded a new one late-ish today
02:36:44LloreanDid you do the daily?
02:36:46kkurbjunLlorean, I can't seem to track anyone down who has a gigabeat X to actually discuss/test anything
02:36:51Hammer89no... not the daily
02:36:53Lloreankkurbjun: Yeah, there aren't many of them.
02:37:06Hammer89errrr.... maybe it is?
02:37:07LloreanHammer89: See the word "daily"?
02:37:08kkurbjunyou don't happen to know who has one or when they might be available
02:37:14krazykitkkurbjun, i have a gigabeat f, which is mostly the same
02:37:25LloreanHammer89: Use the one from the "Current Build" page, or you're always going to be out of date.
02:37:31Lloreankrazykit: It's an X-only problem
02:37:36Lloreankkurbjun: Toffe82
02:37:58Lloreanmarkun: Know anyone else besides Toffe with an X?
02:38:04kkurbjunLlorean, yeah, he has a broken one, hopefully he'll have a fully working one at the end of the week
02:38:21Hammer89wow... how dumb of me
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02:40:49Hammer89it worked... thanks for the help :)
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02:45:20aliaskDoes rockbox support ID3 2.4 tags?
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02:47:27Lloreanaliask: Yes.
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02:48:08aliaskJolly good then :)
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02:55:38Good_ApolloBooted up my ipod..didnt boot up as rockbox
02:56:10LloreanGood_Apollo: You're not telling us very much. First time install, after an apple update, or what?
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03:09:17Good_Apolloheres the thing
03:09:38Good_ApolloI restored my ipod to original settiings..cause im going to switch from database to file tree
03:09:50Good_ApolloAnd i put Rockbox back onto the hard drive
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03:09:55Good_Apolloand it will not boot into rockbox
03:10:08Good_Apolloi am sure im missing something..but not sure what
03:10:14aliaskWhen you restored the iPod, it deleted the bootloader, you'll need to reinstall it
03:10:24Good_Apollolink for the bootloader?
03:10:53Good_Apollothank you sir =]
03:11:51***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
03:12:07Good_Apollois the bootloader incuded in the .Zip?
03:12:49aliaskWhat I linked were the manuals. If you just want to quickly check it, select whichever ipod you have, and look under the "installation" section. It'll link you to the bootloader installer from there.
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03:15:18w0lfieheya there
03:15:23Good_Apolloneed the installer
03:15:53aliaskhey there w0lfie
03:16:04w0lfieyo :)
03:17:18w0lfiefor the iaudio port, the power handling is listed at a status of 10%. can anyone elaborate any further on this?
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03:18:22w0lfiedoes anyone run rockbox on an iaudio?
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03:19:02Good_ApolloBootloader link? on the manual =]
03:19:23LloreanGood_Apollo: The link is in the manual...
03:19:33Good_Apolloi dont see it
03:19:36Lloreanamiconn: Either your change or JDGordon's change seems to have broken something with icons.
03:19:36*Good_Apollo is blind
03:20:06Lloreanamiconn: All of my builtin filetypes (both m3u and audio files) seem to be using the "System" icon.
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03:21:06*Good_Apollo punches self
03:21:13Good_Apolloim stupid, dont see a link
03:21:54aliaskAre you looking int he "installing the boot loader" section?
03:22:40Good_Apolloim looking at installing rockbox
03:22:45Good_Apollothan it talks abut the bootloader
03:23:04Good_ApolloAhh found it
03:23:09Good_ApolloThanks! =D
03:23:17aliask:P enjoy
03:23:21Good_Apolloi will
03:23:25Good_Apollogotta get this File tree goin
03:23:46Good_ApolloDatabase= too slow, gotta get away from the Devil we call "itunes" lol
03:24:06aliaskA wise choice in my opinion.
03:25:16Good_Apollonow..lets see if she boots up
03:25:32Good_Apolloyup =D
03:25:35Good_Apollothemes now
03:26:24w0lfieso no one runs the rockbox on an iaudio x5?
03:26:32w0lfiecome on...there must be someone ;)
03:26:38LloreanJdgordon: Assuming you might see it in the logs: Icon #16, denoted as "Question Mark", is being used for the System menu on my player. As well, it's being used for all inbuilt file types (.mp3, .m3u, .flac)
03:28:11LloreanOops, forgot "System" and "System Menu" are two different things.
03:28:47aliaskw0lfie: It's currently the middle of the night for most of europe, so quite a few people around here are asleep.
03:28:47Lloreanw0lfie: What question did you have, beyond the one regarding the out of date IaudioPort page?
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03:33:02w0lfiealiask: ahh right, that doesn't help huh :)
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03:34:23w0lfieLlorean: well, i just spotted on the iaudio port page that the power handling is at 10% and was wondering if that's still the case and if it's a big downside about using an iaudio?
03:34:49w0lfiebasically, i'm wanting to get an iaudio and just want to see what people think about it
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03:37:57LloreanRockbox works quite well on it.
03:38:14LloreanAnd battery life is on par to the original firmware, I believe.
03:41:29w0lfieoh ok, that's good to know :)
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03:45:04Good_Apolloone more question
03:45:24Good_Apolloon totally kills my battery life, a friend said i need something enabled but i cant remember
03:45:28Good_Apolloany ideas?
03:46:57LloreanGood_Apollo: On the iPod, battery life is pretty bad. See the IpodRuntime page for comparisons.
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03:47:17Good_Apolloit was fine is 14 hrs
03:47:32LloreanAnd in Rockbox, it's bad.
03:47:50LloreanAs I said, on the iPod battery life is pretty bad.
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03:47:55LloreanThis is #Rockbox, I'm referring to Rockbox.
03:48:08Good_Apollomy friend san, said that something about the hard drive loading every song, something in disk settings
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03:48:27Good_Apolloill just ask him tomorrow
03:48:32Good_Apollohes got the ipod like mine
03:48:43Good_Apollohe said after he enabled it, everything was peachy
03:49:03LloreanLook, if you don't believe me fine.
03:49:21LloreanWe have thousands of users, and they all get somewhere between 1/2 and 2/3 of their normal battery life while running Rockbox.
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03:49:54Good_Apollonah dude, i beleve you
03:49:54Good_Apollothis just might make it a tiny bit better
03:50:14LloreanThere are settings that can make it better (or worse), depending on how you use your player.
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04:10:08BHSPitMonkeyoff-topic, but someone might know:
04:10:44BHSPitMonkeywould it be a common ordeal to get a piece that condenses both channels on a headphone jack into mono?
04:10:56BHSPitMonkey(some kind of pass-thru adapter)
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04:31:20Hammer89something like this?
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04:44:33saratogaLlorean: did you get a chance to run RMAA load tests on the Sansa?
04:48:15Lloreansaratoga: Not yet, no, sorry.
04:49:23Lloreansaratoga: I'd really like to wait until Rockbox's sound setup is stable anyway, it's still not good without patches.
04:55:55saratogaI thought results were the same now?
04:56:15saratogawill take a second look at what you posted
04:56:43Lloreansaratoga: Rockbox without a patch is bad, Rockbox with a patch is similar to the Gigabeat.
04:58:35saratogaoh sorry, missed the "out" in "without patches"
04:59:24LloreanRight now I couldn't get Rockbox to a suitable volume without clipping.
04:59:54saratogamakes sense
05:00:02saratogai noticed Toni put up yet another sansa patch
05:00:42LloreanYeah, kinda a combination patch, I wish he'd separate things more clearly
05:06:20saratogaits not clear to me what he means
05:06:29saratogadoes this obviate the previous changes in the antiglitch patch
05:06:37saratogaor are they rolled into what this patch needs to apply
05:08:21LloreanThat's the problem, I'm not sure.
05:08:29LloreanIf it's to fix power consumption, it shouldn't include any of those
05:08:42LloreanAnd if there are new changes to the anti-glitch they should've been posted to it, separately
05:09:07saratogaI'll ask him
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05:10:37saratogawhats the issue on 6908 anyway?
05:10:55saratogaI was under the impression it fixed the issue
05:11:50LloreanI'm not sure, honestly
05:11:53***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
05:12:19saratogai guess that its a little hackish
05:12:27saratogadisabling cache flushes
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07:06:04Good_ApolloHey guys..quick question
07:06:11Good_Apollowhere to i extract my themes?
07:08:14aliaskIn the themes directory?
07:08:29perldiverwith a properly zipped them the root will do
07:09:09Good_Apolloi put them in there..nothing shows in the Browse themes
07:09:09perldiverhey aliask, great set of icons :P
07:09:10perldiverusing them since day one
07:10:16aliaskCheers. Gotta say I love em too :)
07:10:33Good_Apolloso .rockbox/themes ?
07:10:47perldiverinside .rockbox there should be 3 folders
07:11:07 Quit daniel2023 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
07:11:13perldiverwhen you download a theme, a proper zipped one keeps the structure
07:11:19perldiverif not, you have to do it manually
07:11:46Good_Apolloaliask, you wouldnt happen to live in the UK would you?
07:11:57***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
07:12:05aliaskMelbourne, Australia actually.
07:12:23Good_Apolloyou seem like someone i know from the UK..just wondering ;]
07:12:35perldiveraliask navigating is a blast with them really
07:12:36aliaskHeh. Sorry to disappoint.
07:12:52Good_Apolloits fine
07:13:16aliaskOops, lost track of time. Gotta run!
07:13:16perldivernow if only i could make this new dict patch to work
07:13:23 Quit aliask ("ChatZilla [Firefox]")
07:14:55Good_Apolloi extracted it and all..i dont see it in "Browse themes"
07:16:34perldiverdo see those 3 folders inside your /.rockbox folder ?
07:16:47perldivercheck whats inside
07:16:57Good_Apollotheres a lose file, .DS_store
07:17:02Good_Apollowhat do i do with that one?
07:17:08perldiverdo you see cfg and other related files to the themse you just unpacked?
07:17:53perldiverds_store, are you on a mac?
07:18:22perldiverhow did you get one then heh
07:18:29Good_Apollonot sure..
07:18:47perldiverprobably from the theme author
07:19:12Good_Apollowhat do you reccomend i do than?
07:19:25perldiverdid you try with different themes?
07:19:45perldiverdo you see both of them insides those folders?
07:20:09Good_Apolloyeah..on the computer, but not on my ipod
07:20:29perldiverwhat do you mean?
07:20:56perldiverfor example
07:21:05Good_Apolloim looking at the files in the drive, USB connected..but then when i unplug it and reboot, it doesnt show up in "browse themes"
07:21:09perldiverinside your /.rockbox/wps folder you should see
07:21:31perldivera file called whatevertheme.wps
07:21:42perldiverand a folder with the images used
07:21:44perldiverwith the same name
07:22:14Good_Apollolet me try extracting it again
07:23:25perldiverinsides /.rockbox/themes should be a .cfg file with the same name
07:23:37Good_Apollohmm..this is very odd
07:23:42perldiverand inside /.rockbox/backdrop an image
07:23:48Good_Apolloi extracted it..its not showing at all now..
07:23:51perldiverall with the theme name
07:24:05Good_ApolloI understand what you are saying though ^_^
07:24:07perldiverthen you're extracting somewhere else
07:24:14perldivertry this
07:24:24perldiverextract them 1st to a separate folder
07:24:35perldivermake sure you see 3 folders, like i said
07:24:42perldiverif eveything is alright
07:24:47perldivercopy them to your player
07:24:57perldiverin /.rockbox
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07:26:59 Join pondlife [0] (
07:28:41Good_Apolloyeah..i think i got it d00d, thanks!
07:29:21Good_Apollothe now playing screen doesnt look correct though..must have missed something
07:30:11perldiverdid you download the font pack?
07:30:40Good_Apollonot yet
07:30:43perldivermight help
07:30:56Good_Apolloi just extract that to/.rockbox correct?
07:33:25Good_Apollostill doesnt look right..
07:34:14Good_Apollothe now playing screen is supposed to look diff
07:35:13perldiverbrowse to the themes and select it again
07:35:21perldiverreload it
07:35:56perldiverif that doesn't help, then it needs a "custom" build with various patches
07:36:14Good_Apollodidnt work =[
07:37:53Good_Apollowhat kinda patch?
07:37:59perldiverlink me to the theme
07:38:16Good_Apollocalled Cobalt
07:40:02Good_Apollofind it?
07:41:22perldiverhold on
07:42:09perldiverRequires a build with Album Art and Scrolling Margins I suggest either Senab's build or EvilG's build
07:42:28Good_Apollowhere can i find it?
07:42:30perldiveryou can find more info here
07:42:51Good_Apollook thanks
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07:43:17Good_Apollohi webgeust
07:43:18webguest46I've got a question please
07:44:13webguest46I'm trying to get those icons working:
07:44:37webguest46but it seems that there is just the first one usable
07:44:51webguest46the 2 others need more files, no?
07:44:56perldiverthey do
07:45:07webguest46how can I do please?
07:45:15perldiverits easy to make them yourself though
07:45:28perldiverjust look at the 1st one as an example :P
07:45:55webguest46I just wanted to test now before to go (no time atm for finish the thing)
07:46:30webguest46how can I get Untitled 12x13x16 working?
07:46:31perldiverthen you have to wait till authors update them
07:46:43Good_Apollowhitch post do i see in the link you sent me perldiver?
07:47:05perldiverGood_Apollo try EvilG's
07:47:25perldiverSenab's hasnt been updated for awhile
07:47:46webguest46I'm trying to find some little icons
07:47:56 Quit Shaid (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
07:48:13webguest46is there any other link that the gallery yet?
07:48:32Good_ApolloIce build updated SVN April 14
07:49:13perldiverGood_Apollo i dont use ipod so you're on your own there hehe
07:49:19Good_Apolloi already got the .Zip for the first..extract to /.rockbox?
07:49:31ptw419scramble.c is the tool used to encode a targets firmware right?
07:49:44perldiverGood_Apollo yes, if there are no additional instructions
07:50:10Good_Apolloit has the folders like a theme..extract to those folders? or just to rockbox
07:50:39 Quit markun (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
07:50:59perldiverGood_Apollo just keep the same folder structure
07:52:30Good_Apollookay..ill have to pick this up tomorrow
07:52:32Good_Apollobye everyone
07:52:39Good_Apolloand thnx perldiver
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07:53:37 Join t3chth1rt3n [0] (i=4c699190@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
07:53:52t3chth1rt3nis anyone here?
07:54:48webguest46perldriver: any hint please?
07:55:02rifthow version of gcc do you use to compile ?
07:55:26rifti have tried with gcc 3.3, gcc 4.1 gcc 3.4 it doesn't work
07:55:32perldiverwebguest46 you need an .icon file
07:55:35rift/var/tmp//ccmfhh5o.s:131: Error: no such instruction: `ldr pc,[sp],'
07:55:36riftgmake[3]: *** [crtbegin.o] Error 1
07:55:37riftgmake[3]: Leaving directory `/root/build-rbdev/build-gcc/gcc'
07:55:53ptw419can someone tell me what scramble does?
07:55:58t3chth1rt3nso what needs to be done to port rockbox to a different mp3 player?
07:56:02scorcherift: go to CrossCompiler
07:56:04perldiverwebguest46 .icons rather
07:56:18webguest46how shall I made it?
07:56:26webguest46with on of the wiki set
07:56:58webguest46too big for my screen
07:57:11perldiverthats just an example
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07:57:13webguest46I was looking for Stephan's one
07:57:14perldiveredit that one
07:57:36perldiver0 - 1st icon in the viewers bmp
07:57:48perldiverm stands for "main" bmp set
07:58:20webguest46I must have to wait for an wiki update then, thanks anyway
07:58:29webguest46(I've got no time atm)
07:58:41perldiverits easier than you think but ok
07:58:59*webguest46 have to go to work ;)
07:59:11webguest46but feel free to made it for me ;p
07:59:21perldivergoing to bed
07:59:54webguest46good night then (morning here in europe)
07:59:56 Part toffe82
08:00:32perldiverhave fun at work :P
08:00:52webguest46isn't StefanSaftescu around?
08:01:32 Join JdGordon [0] (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
08:03:07webguest46JdGordon: maybe you can help me please; I'm trying to use StefanSaftescu's cons on the gallery but some files missing, any hint please?
08:04:54 Join davina [0] (
08:05:14JdGordonwhats the problem?
08:06:54 Join Rob222241 [0] (
08:07:29webguest46need some files, refering to the explanation, no?
08:08:09webguest46there are just 2 bmps files
08:08:34JdGordonyes, it needs a .cfg and possibly a .icons file
08:09:13webguest46is the icons file really needed
08:09:26webguest46for the config can edit one
08:09:40webguest46then I can use it just with those 2 files?
08:10:02webguest46nice, let's try
08:10:12webguest46thanks for the hint
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08:13:19webguest46what is his? :;filename=silk.18x17x16.bmp
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08:16:17JdGordonright click - save as
08:17:50*webguest46 is trying...
08:18:29perldiverJdGordon .icons file is not needed?
08:18:35webguest46wow working, that's nice
08:18:40JdGordonperldiver: its optinoal
08:18:43webguest46with just those 2 bmps
08:18:50webguest46I didn't know
08:18:51JdGordonif your ok with viewers.config then you dont need .icons
08:19:00webguest46I made one
08:19:29perldiverJdGordon ah i see
08:19:45webguest46JdGordon: nice works man, thanks again
08:19:49webguest46bye all
08:19:59 Quit webguest46 ("CGI:IRC")
08:22:58*JdGordon doesnt get magnus's commit :'(
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08:33:42Ibugppl[CP]Ello there
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08:39:58pondlifeJdGordon: Sorry, can you explain what the .icons file does again? Is it only required where a non-standard viewers.config is used?
08:40:13pondlifeThe wiki page isn't very clear on this.
08:40:29JdGordonits to give a supported extension a different icon from either the built in icon or the viewers.config icon
08:42:12pondlifeHmm, so it's like a user-extension of viewers.config, right?
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08:52:56hen3rzHi guys i was wondering if anyone has looked into the backlight bug in X series players? FS #7037
08:54:07hen3rzAlso are there any Gigabeat X series users online who are experiencing the same problem?
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09:27:25linuxstb_hen3rz: Very few people (and no developers afaik) own an X - but I think kkurbjun is looking into the problems and needs an X owner to help him test.
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09:29:04hen3rzlinuxstb: Im more then willing to help! although im not quite sure on how to apply patches but I'm more then willing to learn.
09:30:43linuxstbhen3rz: OK. Just hang around and try and catch kkurbjun next time he's online.
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10:07:04SliMMJdGordon: I have an iconset, but the icons' height is greater than the font's height. What should i do?
10:07:26JdGordonchange font
10:07:34LinusNSliMM: shrink the icons or use a larger font
10:07:50SliMMLinusN: damn..
10:07:50 Join roolku [0] (
10:08:11linuxstbSliMM: How would you expect it to work?
10:09:12SliMMlinuxstb: the line's height should be at least the same height as the icon's height
10:09:27JdGordonno, the lines work on the font height
10:09:40SliMMyes, that's the problem.. :)
10:09:54JdGordonnot so easy to "fix" though
10:10:08SliMMwhy's that?
10:10:35*SliMM is shrinking some icons :)
10:10:47linuxstbscreen->line_height = MAX(icon_height,font_height); ???
10:11:35JdGordonoh so it is easy to fix :p
10:11:45JdGordonno there is more than that...
10:11:52linuxstbNo, I doubt screen->line_height exists...
10:12:04JdGordonscreen->nb_lines is closer...
10:12:17JdGordonbut yeah, the lcd driver needs to know the line height iirc
10:12:26 Join brun0_ [0] (
10:13:03SliMMand what's the sapcing between the lines?
10:13:16JdGordonassuming there is no bad sideeffects with 7036, is there any reason other than it has 2 patches in it to not comit it?
10:13:24 Join Br3nda [0] (
10:13:28JdGordonSliMM: 1px, i tinhk
10:13:33JdGordoneither 1 or 0
10:13:41SliMMi'll go for one :)
10:14:34linuxstbI thought it was 0 - and fonts have padding in them. But I could be wrong...
10:14:51JdGordonoh, if fonts have padding then its 0
10:15:11linuxstbAs I said, I'm not 100% sure.
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10:23:32JdGordonis cpu boosting "expensive"? I mean, if the oost ratio while playing is 75%+ is there even point enabling the scaling?
10:24:38JdGordonor even 50% (constantly boost - unboosting)
10:26:51 Quit hen3rz (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
10:30:13amiconnJdGordon: Did you check my icon fixes?
10:30:49JdGordonI had a quick look, looked find
10:30:59JdGordonhad to fix lear's commit though
10:31:04amiconnAnd yes, cpu scaling is useful even if boost ratio is high
10:31:22JdGordon16bit remote lcd? anyone have one already or just a pipe dream? :)
10:31:40amiconnWhat's somewhat expensive is the actual switching, so it shouldn't be done too often
10:31:52JdGordonyeah, thats whats happening
10:31:58JdGordon50% constantly switching
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10:32:37amiconn16 bit remote lcd is for completeness, and to avoid unexpected effects later. The multi-screen api is designed to be flexible
10:33:14linuxstbIf TV-Out support is ever added to Rockbox (e.g. some of the ipods have the ability), then 16-bit second screens will be needed.
10:34:55 Join PaulJam [0] (
10:35:04JdGordonso we could expect ~3fps on 640x480 ? :D
10:35:20linuxstbIf you're lucky.
10:35:46 Quit alberink ("Konversation terminated!")
10:36:02B4gder720x576! ;*)
10:36:42amiconnlinuxstb: Is this ipod tv out handled as a separate display or does it just mirror the lcd?
10:37:10linuxstbIt's a separate framebuffer - in the Apple firmware it doesn't display the main UI, just photos or videos IIUC.
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10:41:34amiconnlinuxstb: Do we know the resolution, and how to use it?
10:42:38JdGordonI assume it would be standard tv res.. 640x480 (or 400?) to keep the chip cheap?
10:42:47daurnimatorhey all (jd)
10:43:08PaulJamJdGordon: is it normal, that some inbuilt filetypes now only show the correct icon when i specify them in the .icons file? for example fonts use the questionmark/system icon unless i add the line "fnt:*6" to the .icons file.
10:43:23 Join inversions [0] (
10:43:45JdGordonhey daurnimator
10:43:51JdGordonPaulJam: no, thats a bug if thats happening
10:44:17JdGordoncan you update your icon pack to show the rockbox logo instead of the music note? and a few icons are just numbers?
10:44:30*JdGordon loves your icon set btw... works well with the icatcher theme
10:45:12PaulJamJdGordon: it is still a work in progress
10:45:53amiconnTV resolution is either 704x480 (ntsc) or 704x576 (pal) afaik
10:46:07JdGordonLinusN: I'm only a small fella, you reckon if I got on a barge now I'd be in sweden on time? Im sure it would cost less than 100 euro :D
10:46:10B4gderfor pal
10:46:24JdGordonsince when? isnt tv 640x480?? /me was lied to!
10:46:32B4gderit never was
10:46:41B4gderthat's VGA
10:46:44LinusNJdGordon: wonderful idea
10:47:21*JdGordon unlearns
10:47:37 Join Entasis [0] (
10:47:42scorcheJdGordon: find one form the west-coast of north america while you are at it please
10:47:56 Join t3chth1rt33n [0] (i=4c699190@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
10:48:08B4gderwhat's a "barge" ?
10:48:14 Join pixelma [0] (i=pixelma@rockbox/staff/pixelma)
10:48:30*B4gder 's poor language skills show
10:48:31t3chth1rt33nok...where can I find rockbox source code?
10:48:40daurnimatorbarge = big boat (not massive) for transporting.... stuff
10:48:44JdGordonB4gder: a blank of iron that floats and usually carries rubbish up a river
10:48:58daurnimator"a blank"?
10:49:12JdGordonbah, plank
10:49:47scorche"1.a capacious, flat-bottomed vessel, usually intended to be pushed or towed, for transporting freight or passengers; lighter."
10:50:08LinusNt3chth1rt33n: or
10:50:42JdGordonB4gder: do you still have a contact at sandisk? (even if they wernt much help before)?
10:51:17B4gderyeah, I do
10:51:23daurnimatorlike this:
10:51:48t3chth1rt33nok...another question, what do i have to do to port out rockbox?
10:52:06B4gderport out?
10:52:12t3chth1rt33nto the psp
10:52:14JdGordondo you think it would be worth trying once more to get info on how to talk to the mSD card.. explain that at least a few devs want to buy them, but dont see the point if we cant use it?
10:52:28B4gdert3chth1rt33n: doesn't that run linux already?
10:52:30*JdGordon stops beating the dead horse :'(
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10:52:50 Join [IDC]Dragon [0] (i=c19e01ec@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
10:52:50bluebrotherJdGordon: do we know how the card is connected?
10:52:50B4gderJdGordon: totally pointless, they never answered any technical question
10:53:07t3chth1rt33nyeah...i think so, but the music player sucks
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10:53:26*[IDC]Dragon just wants to say hi, after a while
10:53:28 Join miepchen^schlaf [0] (
10:53:28scorcheif it already runs linux, then you have a decent chunk already done for you
10:53:39scorche[IDC]Dragon: well, hey there =)
10:53:46JdGordonbluebrother: iirc the only thing we know is which bit changes when its plugged in
10:53:47 Join Llorean [0] (n=Llorean@rockbox/administrator/Llorean)
10:53:57scorcheany progress on bootbox?
10:54:05t3chth1rt33nyeah, but i have no clue my way around C or C++ so, this is gona be really hard
10:54:15[IDC]Dragonsniff, no, so many other stuff
10:54:19bluebrotherthat's not too much :(
10:54:19scorchet3chth1rt33n: well, then learn! ;)
10:54:25t3chth1rt33nplus i need to make it an app, not a firmware
10:54:33t3chth1rt33nthis is how i plan to leard
10:54:44scorchet3chth1rt33n: well, rockbox is a replacement firmware...not an application
10:54:50[IDC]DragonI need to rework the bootloader for my house, before that
10:54:56t3chth1rt33nyeah...thats what i have to change
10:55:14t3chth1rt33nhave no clue how yet though, but ill figure it out
10:55:14B4gdert3chth1rt33n: so build the simulator and run that on the psp
10:55:17linuxstbscorche: The Rockbox UI sim is an application...
10:55:20bluebrothert3chth1rt33n: it's not intended for that, and I don't think this is feasible at all
10:55:20B4gderall you need is sdl
10:55:21[IDC]Dragon(I'm coming closer to opensource my home control stuff)
10:55:35scorchelinuxstb: i was getting to that, but i was beaten ;)
10:55:37t3chth1rt33nwhats the UI sim?
10:55:49bluebrothersee the UiSimulator wiki page
10:55:55linuxstbA version of Rockbox built to run as an application on your PC.
10:55:59bluebrotherit's main purpose is for debugging. what do i have to change as far as button controls and stuff?
10:56:22bluebrotherit replaces the device hardware specific stuff with calls to the OS
10:56:48t3chth1rt33nwhat else do i have to change/modify?
10:57:15*bluebrother doesn't understand why people want to port Rockbox to an application
10:57:29amiconnhi [IDC]Dragon :)
10:57:33*scorche is reminded of the windows CE guy
10:57:37linuxstbbluebrother: Because good media players are hard to find.
10:57:38t3chth1rt33nhave u tryed the psps music player?
10:57:55bluebrotherscorche: did he succeed in any way?
10:58:07[IDC]DragonHi Jens!
10:58:10bluebrotherlinuxstb: I know why I prefer a dap for playing music ;-)
10:58:15scorchebluebrother: i dont think he even made an effort beyond extolling the virtues of CE in here
10:58:17JdGordonbluebrother: a few portable devices run sdl apps and have crap audio players.. gp2x people want it also
10:58:28 Join markun [0] (n=markun@rockbox/developer/markun) do i do this?
10:58:40bluebrotherhmm... me doesn't own such a device.
10:58:41t3chth1rt33nhow do i get started?
10:58:47JdGordonfigure out how to cross compile sdl for you device
10:58:58bluebrotherno need for it, and no money for playing around ;-)
10:59:02JdGordononce youve got that working come back for next step
10:59:15linuxstbt3chth1rt33n: You should start by downloading the Rockbox source, building a UI simulator for a random device, and start playing...
10:59:16t3chth1rt33nwtf r u talking about?
10:59:28bluebrothermaybe add step 0, be able compiling and running your own code on the device
10:59:32[IDC]DragonI can't join devcon 2007, I'm on holiday then (besides being rockbox-passive almost since last devcon)
10:59:37B4gdert3chth1rt33n: please write proper english
10:59:50t3chth1rt33nok, sorry
11:00:27amiconn[IDC]Dragon: Will you attend devcon?
11:00:47t3chth1rt33nbluebrother: i want to start big...i dont like making my own stuff
11:00:57LloreanJdGordon: I'm seeing all of my builtin filetypes (mp3, m3u, flac, etc) as ? icons (or rather the icon I've set to replace the ?)
11:00:58JdGordondaurnimator: did you get anywhere with the zaurus and the sim?
11:01:07bluebrothert3chth1rt33n: starting big is condemned to fail
11:01:09daurnimatormy zaurus broke
11:01:14scorcheamiconn: see up a few lines
11:01:15bluebrotherunless you have enough experience
11:01:15daurnimatorit... won't turn on
11:01:35t3chth1rt33ntrue...but this is my goal i guess
11:01:35[IDC]Dragonamiconn: see 3 lines above ;-)
11:01:45JdGordonLlorean: do you know if my last commit did this? or since when?
11:01:56bluebrotherand if you can't run your own code on the device you won't be able getting the sim to run on it too
11:02:21t3chth1rt33nyeah, ok so i need to get the psp running my code
11:02:41[IDC]Dragonamiconn: you guys are compensating, two Arnolds
11:03:37LloreanJdGordon: It was somewhere between svn revision 13180 and 13190 I think. It worked fine yesterday, I got on as you and Amiconn were fixing things, downloaded shortly after you left, had the problem, left a message for you in the logs, slept, came back now, still have the problem with the current SVN.
11:03:41t3chth1rt33nbut the thing about that is i like to see other peoples work before I start my own...thats why I wanted to see RockBoxs code, then it just snowballed from there
11:03:42bluebrothera simple hello world program should be enough.
11:04:01bluebrotherit would also ensure that your toolchain is working properly ;-)
11:04:05t3chth1rt33nyeah...but i cant get any dev programs to
11:04:15t3chth1rt33ni mean laugh out loud
11:04:39JdGordonLlorean: ok ta, ill have a looksie
11:04:56B4gdert3chth1rt33n: rockbox is only some 370000 lines of code, should keep you busy for a while if you want to read it ;-)
11:05:12LloreanJdGordon: I can set them in the .icons file, but if I don't set any of the built in filetypes, all of them (or at least all of the files on my device that I know are built in types) use the ? icon. Menus seem fine though.
11:05:22t3chth1rt33nI need a good tutorial on getting cygwin running?
11:05:34LloreanJdGordon: And now that I think of it, plugins and themes are fine... =/
11:05:35JdGordonLlorean: ok, yeah, PaulJam (?) mentioned it before
11:05:46B4gdert3chth1rt33n: you'll find almost everyting Rockbox-related documented in our wiki
11:05:49LloreanJdGordon: It's just music, and m3us
11:06:05JdGordonwhich are not in your .icons file probably?
11:07:07LloreanNot in my icons, no
11:07:07 Quit PaulJam (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
11:07:20LloreanIf I add them to the .icons file, I can make them display
11:08:36PaulJam_JdGordon: it seems to happen to all inbuilt filetypes, that are not in the viewers.config
11:09:03LloreanPaulJam_: Go to "Browse Plugins"
11:09:09LloreanDo those have the plugin icon, or the ? going to go look into the wiki, download the sourcecode, and learn psp coding...good night!
11:10:05 Quit t3chth1rt33n ("CGI:IRC")
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11:10:41LinusNwell, at least he has ambition...
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11:11:21PaulJam_Llorean: they show up as system/questionmark if i remove the entry from the .icons
11:12:04***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
11:12:54LloreanOh wow, I'm completely blind.
11:12:55JdGordonAh, i know the problem
11:13:02*Llorean should be half ignored.
11:13:48LloreanPaulJam_: I was using your .icons file, since I had overwritten your viewers icons (they're the right size for what I'm doing, and it was easier to recognize them and overwrite them than recognize the builtin bmp's purposes)
11:14:04LloreanAnd I'm just completely blind to the fact that rock and cfg were in it, even though I looked for them. =/
11:16:13JdGordoneasy fix
11:16:13*amiconn just uses the default icons, which work fine now
11:16:20amiconnNo .icons file
11:16:33JdGordonno .icons == no problem :)
11:17:32JdGordonfixed in svn
11:20:49*[IDC]Dragon reads PSP
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11:20:59[IDC]DragonI missed the first part of it
11:21:20[IDC]Dragonis it "open", as in running own code?
11:23:38Llorean[IDC]Dragon: Yes, and no
11:23:53*scorche points to the link above
11:24:03Llorean[IDC]Dragon: Ever month or two someone figures out how to get code running on a slightly newer firmware version, and Sony releases a newer, more restrictive firmware.
11:24:27LloreanIf you run the original 1.5 firmware (or 1.0 in Japan) you're pretty much restriction free on what you can run on it.
11:24:38scorcheyeah...that one points to 1.5
11:25:10LinusNhow do they force the users to use the newer firmwares?
11:25:16LloreanLinusN: New games require them.
11:25:20LinusNi see
11:25:30LloreanWhen a new firmware comes out, newer games start complaining if you're not running it.
11:25:38LloreanSo of course the community creates ways around this.
11:25:42bluebrother"initial port of SDL" sounds like there is quite some work left
11:25:43LloreanIt's all a big, pointless war.
11:26:28LloreanBut Sony honestly seems to be lightening up (in a slightly related way). One of the big benefits of Homebrew is that you could run video at the full PSP resolution, rather than the 320x240 sony limited you to (so that their UMD disks were actually worth buying)
11:27:06LloreanThey recently updated to allow users to watch 720x480 H.264 movies, scaled to the PSP's screen (or native-PSP resolution ones), which kinda suggests to me that Sony's rethinking their strategy on it after 2 years.
11:27:16LloreanSince the PS3 runs Linux, they might consider opening it up.
11:29:54PaulJam_JdGordon: do the remote viewers icons use the .icons file from the main viewers icons? in other words, if i change the order of the viewers icons, do i have to provide the remote viewers icons with the same order
11:30:12JdGordonand no easy way around that
11:30:43LloreanI don't think it's a large hindrance anyway
11:30:57JdGordon... because filetypes.c doesnt know which screen the icon is for...
11:31:15*JdGordon back later
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11:32:35Sna[E]who do i aplly rockcalendar.patch
11:32:52bluebrotheryou need to compile your own build
11:33:07bluebrothersee the wiki, look for the SimpleGuideToCompiling
11:33:09Sna[E]thats mean that?
11:33:25bluebrotherthat means some work
11:33:41bluebrotheryou apply a patch to the source code, then you need to recompile the source
11:33:54bluebrotherwhich requires you to setup a complete development environment
11:34:41Sna[E]its sound hard
11:34:56LloreanJdGordon: Yeah, fixed, thanks. :)
11:35:13bluebrotherit isn't too hard if you have done such stuff before, but if you are a user without any programming experience it might be hard
11:35:32LinusNthen again, patchers are for developers, not users
11:35:55bluebrotherright ... patches in our terms means source patches, not binary patches
11:36:00Sna[E]i haved done it b4
11:36:22Sna[E]i just want a rockcalendar.patch to my 340
11:36:37LinusNi'm sure you do
11:36:52bluebrotherdone "it" before means compiling from source?
11:37:10Sna[E]i havent done.
11:37:23bluebrotherah. ok.
11:37:51 Part LinusN
11:38:03bluebrotheryou might want to look around for an experimental build that includes the patch. But I don't think there is a recent one around.
11:38:44Sna[E]i try n old version
11:38:49Sna[E]but it didnt fit.
11:39:09bluebrotheryou can't just try an older version. You need a build that ships the plugin
11:39:36bluebrotherbut what exactly did you try? Using a binary plugin with a different build it was compiled for?
11:39:44 Quit SliMM (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
11:40:06Sna[E]i had n old rocokbox verion
11:40:17Sna[E]so i copy the rockclander from her
11:40:40bluebrotheryou can't just copy binary plugins. You'll get an "incompatible version" message
11:41:15Sna[E]well im not a computer men.
11:41:33Sna[E]so its kind of hard for me
11:41:54bluebrotherwell, in that case you could only search for a build that ships the plugin.
11:42:10bluebrotherbut as I already said, I don't think there is a recent one around. I might be wrong about this though.
11:42:30bluebrothersearch the "unsupported builds" in the forums, might have some information
11:42:34bluebrotherabout this.
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12:18:05Mode"#rockbox +o scorche " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
12:18:23 Part Rift
12:18:44cropWPS experts here? Is there an explanation about what wps lines really produce a line on the screen? E.g. the tag for the status bar doesn't (iirc). Are there other such tags?
12:19:33Topic"Please read before speaking: | Rockbox Devcon 2007 - | DevCon-West: Static Info - Discussion - On the Dev-ML" by scorche (i=scorche@rockbox/administrator/scorche)
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12:20:09Mode"#rockbox -o scorche " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
12:20:13Lloreancrop: The only tags that should take up lines are ones that produce text, or ones that are a whole line (progress bar, peakmeters) I believe.
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12:21:33pixelmaooh another of scorche's famous long topics... ;)
12:21:42scorchehush, you =P
12:21:48cropLlorean: but an empty line also takes up a line. So it's not obvious.
12:21:53scorchemost of the topics have been mine lately...
12:23:47Lloreancrop: I think that's pretty obvious. Real text also takes up space.
12:24:03Lloreancrop: If you insert an empty line, it's assumed to be an intentional empty line, ie, spacer.
12:24:10LloreanRemember, WPSes use line-based positioning.
12:24:38LloreanThe only lines that don't add lines are lines that are nothing but non-text/non-bar tags
12:26:52pondlife...If only the Rockbox fund contained hours as well as Euros....
12:27:15LloreanThey'd be flying out faster than they came in, if people could donate 'em. :)
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12:27:42pondlifeWell some people must have "spare time". An alien concept to me sadly.
12:27:49B4gderif poeple would donate a whole lot more, we could hire people to work for Rockbox! ;-)
12:28:30LloreanAh, this is true.
12:28:35pondlifeI was looking at the new lure on the DevCon page.... but cash itself isn't the problem.
12:28:36LloreanYou can buy time, if you try hard enough
12:28:41B4gderwith the current fund i bet we can get a week from someone
12:29:05scorcheB4gder: what is it up to now?
12:29:07LloreanThe new lure is nice, but it's late enough in the game that prices have increased to match the lure. ;) Planning on it for next year might be nice though.
12:29:10pondlifeHah, a week wouldn't even get the playback work off the ground...
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12:29:15B4gder~4000 USD iirc
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12:29:20scorchenot bad..
12:29:29cropLlorean: I still find it a bit confusing.
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12:29:52Lloreancrop: Any text, including newlines, will be treated as text, unless the ONLY thing on the line is a newline and a non-text tag.
12:30:16LloreanIf the tag generates text, or generates a "bar" (progress, peakmeter), these also generate lines.
12:30:59cropLlorean: and images aren't considered text?
12:31:05pondlifeTime is worthless to those who have plenty to donate, but priceless to those who don't. So the exchange rate is chaotic.
12:31:18Lloreancrop: An image isn't text...
12:31:29B4gderpondlife: indeed one of life's ironies
12:31:48pondlifeOh to be unemployed again... ;p
12:31:55*pondlife shouldn't make wishes like that
12:32:07scorchepondlife: want to trade? ;)
12:32:11pondlifeBut when I was last unemployed I hadn't heard of Rockbox.
12:32:18pondlifescorche: Tempting.
12:32:30pondlifeIn fact it probably didn't exist.
12:32:52pondlifeDid Rockbox exist before 2001?
12:33:12pondlifeObviously not named Rockbox :)
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12:34:05B4gderwe started in dec 2001
12:34:22pondlifeI see that from the ML, but wondered if there had been much prior hacking.
12:34:50B4gderit hadn't, there was some but that was only a few days before the mails started
12:35:16pondlifeAnd it has been non-stop busy-ness ever since. Awesome.
12:36:40*B4gder recalls the devcon 2002 in linusn's appartment...
12:37:11pondlifeI thought DevCon was a "recent" thing.
12:37:12preglowhad plenty of "devcons" like that
12:37:22preglowtrying to do scene stuff :>
12:37:51B4gderpondlife: well, it was more of a fun thing to call it devcon back then and it only recently became "real" devcons, yes
12:38:47pondlifeYou mean real devcons are not fun??
12:38:58B4gdercorrect, just hard work and sweat!
12:39:08pondlifeThank goodness I can't make it then!!
12:39:22pondlifeI thought it would be all beer pizza and hacking.
12:39:37pondlifeErm. beer, pizza... not beer pizza
12:39:44cropLlorean: I was always uncertain about what my wps would look like. In the end I got it right but the was no self confidence from the beginning on.
12:39:57cropLlorean: I've modified the wiki page
12:40:19Lloreancrop: I've never found it particularly confusing, but then I used it pre-graphics.
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12:40:32B4gderpondlife: it was more like the word "developer conference" was a bit of an overstatement when it was just us Swedens gathering one day
12:40:50scorchebork bork!
12:40:53pondlifeHey, Swedes can be developers too, right?
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12:41:07B4gderno, we can only make meatballs and say bork
12:41:15pondlifeOf course!
12:41:24LloreanAnd form giant companies that sell constructible furniture?
12:41:36pondlifeAnd three people is surely enough for a conference... hence "conference call".
12:41:46B4gderLlorean: they sell meatballs too you know ;-)
12:41:51pondlifeOr two... hence "conference pair" (groan)
12:42:04LloreanB4gder: I discovered that recently. They opened one in my town, so I decided to visit.
12:42:05pondlifeConstructible meatballs
12:42:12scorcheLlorean: apparently a place named H&M opened up around here recently too...described as a cheap swedish retailer of clothing
12:42:32pondlifeWe have H&M... Mrs pondlife tried to take me there once.
12:42:44scorcheIKEA is the saviour of many future dorm-goes
12:42:44LloreanB4gder: I learned an important lesson. Swedes are 5 feet / 150cm tall. Or at least, every chair in the store seemed built to that assumption.
12:42:51safetydanIteresting "fact" for the day. According to sloccount, Rockbox cost USD$16,000,000 to develop and took 36.04 developers 3.29 years
12:42:55safetydaninteresting even
12:43:04*B4gder is 6 feet 4
12:43:07pondlifeI want my money back :)
12:43:58LloreanMaybe you guys are so tall, we just look shorter than we are in comparison then.
12:44:30B4gder"those guys over there are so short we export the kids furniture that way"
12:44:56pondlifePerhaps they keep the good chairs and export the stunted ones
12:44:56*scorche points to japan
12:45:31 Quit Br3nda ("Konversation terminated!")
12:45:38LloreanSeriously, I walked through the entire store thinking "I wish they made these in grownup sizes"
12:45:46pondlifeIn 2004, Ikea (allegedly) gave all their employees MP3 players.... there, almost back on topic. Ref:
12:45:47*safetydan used to live in a flat entirely furnished by Ikea
12:46:06preglowmany do
12:46:06pixelma/join #ikea ;)
12:46:25Lloreanpondlife: It would've been neat if it was loaded with an Ikea themed Rockbox
12:46:30B4gderit doesn't say which mp3 player it was
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12:46:33safetydanWasn't my choice, good ol' pre-furnished rental flats
12:46:33LloreanExtra, extra Swedish.
12:46:41pondlifeYes, maybe they can sell Rockbox worldwide
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12:47:21JdGordonthere is a bork bork translation on FS btw...
12:47:39pondlifeHave you tried using it though?
12:47:53*JdGordon doesnt speak bork!
12:47:57preglowklingon translation, please
12:48:08safetydanJdGordon: really? Now we just need a esperanto and a klingon translation
12:48:16JdGordonwe have esparonto
12:48:24markunwas just about to say that :)
12:48:29safetydanwell I'll be darned
12:48:34JdGordonklignon could be done easily if there is a script like bork bork
12:49:19safetydanJust need a klingon font. I have a vague recollection that the klingon characters actually made it in to the Unicode spec.
12:49:28markunJdGordon: you mean a fake klingon translation?
12:49:38JdGordonthats the one pixelma
12:49:55pondlifeAnyone know anything about this?...
12:50:06pondlifeA DIY open-source MP3 player
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12:50:23JdGordonmarkun: there is a real klingon?
12:50:33scorchepondlife: i saw that, but is basically a simplified shuffle
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12:50:42Lloreanpondlife: That the CompactFlash based one?
12:50:50pondlifeYes, I think so
12:51:01B4gderMicrochip PIC18F45j10 based
12:51:02pondlifeIt was "open-source" that got me.
12:51:54markunsometimes it is even claimed that there are more klingon speakers than esperanto speakers
12:51:54JdGordonWTF? it got ISO?
12:52:05JdGordonbunch of nerds!
12:52:27B4gderI like it how the "here is the source code" points to a single C source file
12:52:41pondlifeYep. KISS at its best
12:52:51*preglow goes to have some qagh for lunch
12:53:11markunI vote for a single C source file for rockbox as well, with a lot of ifdefs :)
12:53:34pondlifeSVN fun indeed
12:53:53B4gderwe can replace rockbox with that instead
12:54:06B4gdersee the last function, that's the best one
12:54:17LloreanB4gder: Or offer it as "Rockbox Lite"
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12:54:47markunB4gder: what a rediculous easter egg :)
12:55:00B4gderI agree
12:55:33scorchehaha....oh wow...
12:55:48pondlifeWe need a void king_of_france(char) in playback.c
12:56:04pondlifeAnd now I want pie for lunch
12:56:11scorchehe would eat all of our pie though....
12:56:38[IDC]Dragonthose PIC projects are nice for learning how to code a minimalistic file system (/me thinks bootbox again :-)
12:56:39B4gderit uses an mp3/wav decoder chip
12:57:25[IDC]Dragonvery common, it took over the MAS market
12:57:44B4gderthe PIC is running at 40MHz
12:57:48[IDC]Dragonsince it's still avail, MAS isn't
12:57:51JdGordon[IDC]Dragon: have you got something working for bootbox? so if you dont have time for it others can pick it up?
12:58:32[IDC]Dragonnot really. I have a stripped down code tree of Rockbox, which cut the bootbox size in half
12:58:45[IDC]Dragonbut I don't like that way any more
12:58:52preglowwell, it works now
12:59:03preglowand we rather drastically need size cuts
12:59:25[IDC]Dragoninstead, I wanted to code new from scratch, with "codesize matters" written all over the place make up for all the recent bloating? ;)
12:59:35pondlife#ifdef HAVE_CONFIGURABLE_ICONS...?
12:59:56[IDC]Dragonrockbox has a "bloat rate" of 500 bytes per week, or so
13:00:14scorchethis has been a large week...
13:00:50pondlifeI'd like to see a graph of code size over the years.
13:00:51JdGordon500bytes is not bad per week... and pondlife there is far bigger wastes than icons
13:00:59pondlifeJdGordon: Just joking
13:01:07[IDC]Dragonyes, a graph would be ├╝ber-cool
13:01:09pondlifeI like the icon feature
13:01:29pondlife[IDC]Dragon: Is it growing linearly, or better, or worse?
13:01:42[IDC]Dragondunno, see the graph
13:01:50*scorche would like some weekly, monthly, and yearly links ;)
13:01:56[IDC]Dragonbagder, are those values kept?
13:02:12*pondlife thinks that monthly builds would be more use than daily ones all round
13:02:28JdGordonyearly is silly, but last week, fortnight and month would be nice to have
13:02:48B4gderfeel free to provide such services ;-)
13:03:20pondlifeI have HD space, but the most useless outbound speed.
13:03:21JdGordonwhere is the raw data?
13:03:39B4gderfor what? the bin sizes?
13:04:00JdGordonyeah, ah its linked
13:04:04pixelmaB4gder: didn't tucoz provide such a graph (or something like this)? But I bet it's way out-of-date...
13:04:25B4gderhe made the svnstat thing
13:04:33B4gderbut that was just a single-shot run
13:04:53pixelmaah yes - that's what I remembered
13:06:23*scorche attempts to guess the large jumps
13:06:50B4gder lists all tables with bin sizes
13:06:56pondlifeApril 2006 was a big one
13:06:56B4gderthat currently exists
13:06:57*JdGordon was thinking the same thing
13:07:29B4gdercodec imports
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13:07:47pondlifeSo no core BIN increase.
13:08:06B4gderthe svn page is about source code, not bin size
13:08:07pondlifelol ...
13:09:19JdGordonB4gder: how often are the size logs deleted?
13:09:22linuxstbAre the sizes the build system calculates the "real" (i.e. important wrt rombox etc) sizes?
13:09:25 Quit Soap2 ("Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox]")
13:09:47B4gderlinuxstb: they are the "main" binary file's actual size as listed by unzip
13:10:08[IDC]Dragonhey, I wrote 3.4% of Rockbox
13:10:32JdGordon0.8% here :)
13:10:57*scorche guesses 0.003% for himself
13:10:59[IDC]Dragonwth did dave do?
13:11:15B4gderdave is linuxstb
13:11:17markunimport the codecs maybe? :)
13:11:20B4gderkind of the codec importers ;-)
13:11:33markunfor me it was only Tremor :)
13:11:33scorcheand doom
13:11:42JdGordonso you guys owe me 1.2million bux :)
13:11:46JdGordonno that cant be right
13:12:07***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
13:12:09scorchenot near..
13:12:47*B4gder cancels the payment then
13:12:47markunjethead71 is jhMikeS right?
13:12:47JdGordonyeah, 100x off... 12800$
13:13:42markuna now google will add another $2000 to our treasure chest
13:13:55scorcheprovided they are successful
13:13:57linuxstbSo how many lines of code are our students required to produce?
13:14:00markunscorche: no
13:14:22scorchemarkun: well, provided mentors are successful i should say
13:14:23markunwe'll get it even if they are not successful
13:14:46scorcheif the mentors get horrible "reviews" then we do not get it
13:15:21markunah, I'll better do my best then
13:15:25pondlifeWho writes the reviews, the students?
13:15:33scorchepondlife: yup
13:15:51markunso far I'm getting along quite well with mine
13:15:54pondlifeImagine if Real Life university was like that...
13:15:55scorchethe mentors write about the students, and the students write about the mentors
13:16:05Lloreanlinuxstb: I don't believe there's a set number of lines, so much as whether they progress effectively.
13:16:05scorcheand B4gder gets to read them all ;)
13:16:18pondlifeand LinusN gets to rewrite them all ;)
13:16:37scorcheand in the darkness bind them...
13:16:53B4gderI'll edit them all to mention me in favourable ways
13:17:00linuxstbLlorean: I was joking about the "cost" of producing Rockbox ($16,000,000) and the number of current lines of code (558339 in Jan 2007)....
13:18:01linuxstbWhich I think means $4500 is 140 lines of code...
13:18:07pondlife$28/line? That had better be a joke
13:18:44scorchewhere can i collect my check?
13:18:44JdGordonB4gder: Llorean: can I commit a fix so the scroll wheel only triggers one per click (like the OF?) instead of twice?
13:19:33JdGordonpondlife: i was tought that IRL, coders only net about 5 lines/hour... so $28 doesnt sound too far wrong
13:19:53Lloreanlinuxstb: Oh, sorry, only half paying attention. :)
13:19:56B4gderyeah, you need to take the whole engineering process into account
13:19:58pondlifeI suppose there are lots of other lines that have been deleted too.
13:20:10LloreanJdGordon: Yes.
13:20:23preglowand in something as big as rockbox, you can't just think that one line written stays forever
13:20:27LloreanJdGordon: Since the scrollwheel has "positions", those positions should be 1 "click"
13:20:28pondlifeIf I were to simplify playback.c and remove half of the code, would I owe Rockbox lots of $?
13:20:36JdGordonI think it will make SCROLL|BUTTON_REPEAT impossible though
13:20:51JdGordonpondlife: haha, thats why LOC is such a stupid metric
13:20:57LloreanJdGordon: Ah, well, um, then hold off until there's a better way, I think
13:21:04markunJdGordon: a fix or a hack?
13:21:16LloreanSounds like a hack if it breaks REPEAT
13:21:23JdGordonmarkun: you say potato, i say potato...
13:21:28JdGordonwait.. that doesnt work on irc :p
13:21:40markun;)' pot.a'.to would work
13:22:36JdGordon is the diff
13:22:57pondlifejdgordon: No idea why but you put "manah manah" in my head.
13:23:06pondlife'tis witchcraft
13:23:17scorchedo doooooo do do do
13:23:46markunscorche: I thought the idea was that the 'a' was pronounced differently, not the stress..
13:24:14scorchemarkun: i attempted to come close
13:24:15markunah no, that's with tomato :)
13:24:52*JdGordon is a dill... you cant test button values in the sim :p
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13:25:23*scorche realizes he is only capable of outputting "noise" at this hour and so goes to sleep
13:26:58JdGordonLlorean: yeah, it does break repeat..
13:27:05*JdGordon gets back to the drawing board
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13:28:50*JdGordon doesnt actually know if button_repeat is ever triggered anyway for the scroll wheel
13:29:05LloreanJdGordon: Isn't button-repeat used to keep it from going past the top/bottom of lists?
13:29:49JdGordonbut that doesnt work on the sansa does it?
13:30:05pondlifeThat reminds me... H300 PLAY+UP/DOWN doesn't stop at the top or bottom... it probably should.
13:30:34JdGordonyep... the sansa doesnt trigger repeat ont he wheel anyway
13:33:06LloreanJdGordon: Ah, =/
13:33:37JdGordonill commit this, then see about getting that working... unless there is a reason it doesnt trigger?
13:35:40PaulJam_hmm, is there a list of which icon is used for which filetype with the default viewer icons?
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13:38:44JdGordonbtn = btn&(~(BUTTON_SCROLL_UP|BUTTON_SCROLL_DOWN)); will set those 2 bits to 0 and leave the others right?
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13:46:42pondlifeJdGordon: Yes, but btn &= ~(BUTTON_SCROLL_UP|BUTTON_SCROLL_DOWN); is shorter
13:47:38linuxstbIs anyone apart from bluebrother against Nico_P committing his WPS line-height patch? (FS #7033)
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13:48:34Lloreanlinuxstb: Amiconn seemed to have some doubts about its usefulness too, I believe.
13:48:44pondlifeNo objection here, I think it's useful.
13:49:11linuxstbAs viewports will still be line-based, I don't see the conflict...
13:49:17PaulJam_JdGordon: in the viewes.config, why is the 10 in the line "wav,viewers/wavview,10" ? wav uses a builtin icon.
13:49:55Lloreanlinuxstb: Nico_P did say it would be a minor change to add a "Justify top" and "Justify bottom" option to it, instead of just centering, as well.
13:49:56JdGordonamiconn(?) said that wav was meant to have a seperate icon for archos
13:50:19PaulJam_ok, thanks
13:50:50linuxstbLlorean: I'm not sure I can think of a need for that though...
13:51:11JdGordonwell thats odd... my commit didnt touch the sansa bin size, but afffected the mini's!
13:51:20Lloreanlinuxstb: Someone did complain that visual styles may assume that text lines are justified to the bottom of something (a line/field)
13:51:26Lloreanlinuxstb: I personally don't see a use for it, though.
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13:52:10JdGordonimo if the patch goes in, and its no big deal to add, then the justify options should be added also
13:52:39LloreanWell, top-justify is just not doing the centering it currently does.
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13:54:39pixelmawhy does it matter if you already use a wrong height for the font how it is justified?
13:54:51Lloreanpixelma: You're seeing it as a "fix" again.
13:54:55cropI think the line height tag would be useful. But it should not center lines by default IMHO. Centering should be an extra option.
13:55:15Lloreanpixelma: WPSes could very easily be designed to be font-independent, instead simply saying "Use a font 12px or less"
13:55:34cropText should be "typeset" on the base line, the font is specially designed for it
13:56:03Lloreancrop: For most WPSes, centering is more appropriate.
13:56:30LloreanOr at least, for most WPSes where multiple fonts could work effective (as in, fonts where it's a style choice rather than a 'fix')
13:58:07PaulJam_btw, it would be nice, if all fonts would include theyr height in the filename.
13:58:32LloreanI'd personally prefer it if the filenames started with the height. :)
13:59:19pixelmaLlorean: no - just couldn't imagine that it matters if the line is a few pixels up or down, especially for wps's the will use a line height tag. For heavily designed wps the author will ponder using this one font he/she chose anyways (that's how I'd imagine)
14:01:04Lloreanpixelma: Well, if you're substituting a font that's half the size of the usual one, it can make a difference in the overall appearance, though I suppose that you shouldn't be doing that often.
14:02:54LloreanBut I'd settle for just "centered"
14:03:11cropLlorean: I don't know what "all" or "most" WPS's look like. But the natural typesetting for a text is aligned to its font's base line. This is like swwitching font size in Word.
14:03:30pixelmaLlorean: it'll look differently. But as I said I just couldn't imagine that it'll be really important to those wps
14:03:39Lloreanpixelma: Yeah.
14:03:48Lloreancrop: Yes, and that's for documents, not graphical layouts.
14:04:24linuxstbcrop: I think you're over-estimating fonts in Rockbox. IIUC, a glyph is just a fixed-height bitmap in Rockbox, so is rendered relative to the top of that bitmap.
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14:05:11PaulJam_hmm, the font win_crox6hbo seems to be broken (at least in the h300 sim)
14:05:28LloreanAnd the most recent version of the patch centers the line instead of rendering from the top of the line, since in the test files that looks a good deal better (text that's supposed to be "halfway down the page" looks like it is, instead of being off by an apparent half line)
14:05:35JdGordonPaulJam_: yeah, has been for ages
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14:06:37cropI'm not sure. It depends on what you consider lines to be. If you think of them as of stripes or banners where you "paint" the text then centering would be natural. If OTOH you consider them as lines where you write the text (as in school) then the base line should be used.
14:06:51Lloreancrop: And I consider them stripes or banners.
14:06:56Lloreancrop: Look at how they scroll.
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14:07:05linuxstbRockbox considers them stripes/banners...
14:07:33croplinuxstb: who stated that and when? :-)
14:07:41linuxstbThe code states that...
14:07:58linuxstbI'm just describing how fonts are rendered in Rockbox.
14:08:22JdGordoncrop: well, rockbox can only display 1 font per line (and 2 fonts per screen) anyway, so it doesnt really matter..
14:10:17amiconnThose stats say I wrote 10.4% of rockbox...
14:10:47Lloreancrop: You'll notice a lot of WPSes follow one of two designs: Centered text, basically banners for each tag, or "Fields", boxes (using scroll margins) that again are spaced and essentially very limited width text banners.
14:10:54Lloreancrop: It's not a traditional "document" style display
14:11:15*[IDC]Dragon congratulates amiconn \o/
14:11:32*linuxstb wonders what his real contribution is
14:11:49LloreanWhere do these percentages come from, and what's the minimum value?
14:12:11B4gder'statsvn' checks every revision and counts lines
14:12:27B4gderI think
14:12:36croplinuxstb: I think the code now aligns to the top, not center
14:13:00[IDC]Dragonand amiconn actually wrote that 10.4% code, didn't import it
14:13:05Lloreancrop: Rockbox aligns to the top, but since line-height matches font-height, it's the same as if it were center or bottom.
14:13:13[IDC]Dragonso he should be #1
14:14:02cropLlorean: yes, but if we'd have changed the value of line height and wouldn't otherwise touch the code it would align to the top.
14:14:18JdGordon[IDC]Dragon: no, he committed it... doesnt mean he wrote it :p
14:14:39cropI think it's in gwps-common.c, the line with "ypos = (line * string_height) + display->getymargin();"
14:14:50JdGordonand I should be higher... Linus got the point for my actions patch :'(
14:14:52Lloreancrop: Yes, but "the code currently does it" doesn't seem a very good reason to do it.
14:15:01Lloreancrop: The code currently does it, because currently no attempt at aligning is necessary.
14:15:27linuxstbcrop: We're discussing a new "line-height" patch which allows a line-height to be set which is different to the font height. Hence the new need for justification.
14:15:28LloreanRight now it doesn't actually "align to top", it just draws the text in the reserved space. No attempt is made for alignment, it's just the simplest drawing method.
14:15:55linuxstbOr rather, alignment.
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14:17:35croplinuxstb: yes. I was referring to your phrase "the code does it". I thought you were speaking about the current RB code, not about the patched code.
14:18:18cropBut in the tag, we should have an option for top/center/bottom alignment
14:18:29LloreanB4gder: Are there certain conditions for showing up on the svnstats page or does it just not like me? (My changes could all have been under ignorable circumstances, for example)
14:18:50croplinuxstb: sorry, it was "the code states that"
14:19:08pixelmaLlorean: I think the table is just too old
14:19:08B4gderLlorean: I don't know, and those stats were generated back in.. was it january?
14:19:22pixelma(or stats)
14:19:25LloreanB4gder: Ah, okay then. Nevermind.
14:19:31linuxstbcrop: I was talking about the current code.
14:19:40LloreanB4gder: I was looking to be the minimum contributor, but I did my minimal change after that. :)
14:20:15B4gderbeat that! ;-)
14:21:13LloreanB4gder: Yeah, actually I think I'd have about 6
14:21:21*Llorean can't even come first at coming last.
14:21:31croplinuxstb: then I think we have top alignment now
14:21:45Lloreancrop: We don't have *any* alignment now.
14:21:51LloreanLines are the exact same height as the font.
14:23:00cropLlorean: yes, you're right. But (see above) if we'd changed the string_height we'd have top alignment.
14:23:26Lloreancrop: Only if we didn't make an attempt to choose an alignment.
14:24:02LloreanThat's what we've been saying, once you add arbitrary line heights, then someone has to choose the alignment.
14:24:22LloreanThe current design suggest "center" is the right one if it's not user configurable
14:24:27LloreanAt least in my opinion "center" is right
14:25:43JdGordonbottom of right also
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14:26:09cropLlorean: exactly. I was trying to understand what lines are considered to be in RB now. linuxstb said that the code states that the lines are centered. And I'm saying the the code-wise they are rather top aligned.
14:26:22Lloreancrop: Linuxstb never said lines were centered
14:26:28Lloreancrop: He said they're treated like banners.
14:26:43cropAnyway, with the patch we'll have all options
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14:26:58cropBanners were associated with centering our talk
14:27:16Lloreancrop: You associated them, only in the sense that "If the paradigm is banners, centering makes sense"
14:27:24LloreanYou never said that banners had to be centered.
14:27:35LloreanAt least I didn't get that from it.
14:27:52linuxstbBut anyway, I think we all understand each other now...
14:28:01LloreanYeah, it's clear, I think, now.
14:28:05LloreanAt least, what happens, what could happen.
14:28:06cropOk, this discussion is leading to nowhere. I propose to close it and to commit the patch instead.
14:28:47cropWe only have to agree on the default alignment :-)))
14:28:48Lloreancrop: Well, the current patch *just* centers lines.
14:29:06cropLlorean: then it's not ready yet IMHO
14:29:20LloreanAnd IMHO it's fine.
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14:29:30LloreanBut an option could be added, with minimal work.
14:29:37LloreanAt least according to the author
14:30:17cropLlorean: yes. %lh|height|[t/c/b|]. Right? Or what was the tag?
14:31:31Llorean%lh can't be used.
14:31:39LloreanIt's the tag for the virtual disk LED apparently
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14:32:14cropOk, another tag but same general syntax
14:33:04LloreanAssuming t/c/b is decided to be worth adding to it.
14:34:43cropI thought that was agreed upon, no?
14:35:22LloreanI don't think it's necessary.
14:35:34LloreanI think it might be nice, but I'm not really sure if it's nice enough to matter.
14:36:37LloreanViewports are meant for very specific positioning, the LH patch could, in my opinion, just untie "line height" from "font height" and leave anything beyond that to what viewports chooses as its domain.
14:36:57cropI don't change and play with WPS's much. I only care about purity and "fuctional completeness" :-)
14:37:21B4gderwe're not generally much for "completeness"
14:37:24LloreanIn terms of functional completeness, the line height patch is entirely unnecessary. Its functionality can be duplicated with what's planned for viewports.
14:37:49LloreanBut line-height is a much more elegant solution for some things, and does offer some additional flexibility at a really minimal cost.
14:38:14B4gderI think we could start with it without alignment and see how it works out
14:38:25LloreanB4gder: It looks quite bad top-aligned, imho.
14:38:28B4gderI mean without option, just use center
14:38:30*Llorean saw the early patch.
14:38:43linuxstbI agree with that.
14:38:46LloreanCenter works quite nicely though, I think.
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14:40:58cropApart from all the arguments: it would be fun for Nico_P to implement and would make his rating jump very high :-)
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14:42:02Lloreancrop: I think Nico_P's rating is going to be as high as it needs, there's a very good chance he'll be responsible for us to having Album Art by the end of summer.
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14:47:55JdGordonscorche: why do you have 3 recorders?
14:52:33bluebrotherdouble-backup? ;-)
14:52:48B4gderlots of paper that need weights?
14:53:07B4gderand doors to stop
14:53:12JdGordonlinuxstb: oh, I tried opennig elephants dream on my sansa and it starts to open, screen goes blank, then closes straight away?
14:53:13bluebrotherhmm, then I should get a recorder
14:54:33JdGordonIf my stupid car radio had aux in I'd get one and a nice big hard disk for it
14:56:02B4gderno cassette either then?
14:56:20JdGordonhave to use fm transmitter which sounds horrible
14:56:23bluebrotherhack an aux in :)
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14:56:39JdGordonclosest it has is phone-in, which I assume is mono
14:57:13bluebrotherah, scrap that.
14:57:38JdGordonas in... mobile phone handsfree
14:58:05bluebrotheryeah, noticed that myself shortly after ;-)
14:58:20bluebrotherdoing three things at once isn't always a good idea.
14:58:30*bluebrother wants a second monitor on this machine
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14:59:56*B4gder currently runs some fancy linux desktop thing over two screens
15:00:03B4gderwith 3d rotation and stuff
15:00:13B4gdertotally insane waste
15:00:40bluebrotherthe second screen or the 3d stuff?
15:00:46B4gderthe 3d stuff
15:00:57B4gdertwo screens is pretty neat
15:00:59bluebrotheryeah ... but it looks really nice.
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15:01:08B4gderat least when you're stuck with loress screens
15:01:16LloreanTwo screens has proved pretty useful to me a few times.
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15:01:36bluebrotherme too ... quite useful for coding.
15:01:42B4gderI have this "shaky" effect on windows when dragged too
15:01:47B4gdervery useful
15:01:51bluebrotherand for LaTeX too. One screen for preview and another for coding
15:02:06B4gdereverything's like jello on my desktop
15:02:10*JdGordon wants two screens back
15:02:32JdGordonbluebrother: what ever happened with the cleaning up the rocks folder patch?
15:02:40B4gderin fact, my current code is rather shaky too...
15:02:52bluebrotherI saw xfree with 16 screens on a linux expo ... quite impressing. You get an idea what xeyes is good for :)
15:03:07 Quit brun0_ (Remote closed the connection)
15:03:25bluebrotherJdGordon: still on my todo, but no time for the next 3 weeks. Presentation in less than 2 weeks and I need more numbers until then ...
15:03:38bluebrotherI'm praying my PCB will work when it arrives tomorrow
15:12:10***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
15:12:30elinenbe_did anyone order the Gigabeat Fs from Office Depot?
15:12:57Lloreanelinenbe_: Yes, by way of an affiliate website.
15:13:14perldiverelinenbe ups tracking number shows today's delivery
15:15:26LloreanI expect to have a package in about 5-6 hours.
15:15:33LloreanThough I don't know what I'll find in it.
15:15:59LloreanThey told me they were out of stock and had to cancel my order. And then they shipped it.
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15:16:32perldiverim quite suprised they're shipping them in champaign color
15:16:52Lloreanperldiver: The one I ordered claimed silver.
15:17:20perldiverpeople on fatwallet started to recieve theirs
15:17:29perldiverand its champaign
15:17:37perldiverwhich is strange
15:18:12perldiveri wanted a champaign one though
15:18:15LloreanWell, they seem to have had inventory issues.
15:18:37LloreanSeeing as they were "out of stock" on Wed, and still showed in-stock Thurs on some of their websites.
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15:19:27perldiverif anyone still wants one, fatwallet people got extras they're willing to sell
15:19:58*JdGordon wishes he had the cash for one :')
15:20:01JdGordon:'( even
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15:21:00JdGordonLlorean: you put up a request for a 2nd quickscreen? how about customizable one?
15:21:03*Llorean will settle for champaign colored, it's more or less a gift for his mom.
15:21:22LloreanJdGordon: When did I do that?
15:21:32JdGordonwasnt it you?
15:21:42LloreanI may have a long time ago..
15:22:23JdGordonok, so 10 months ago :D
15:22:37*JdGordon going through tracker looking for something to code
15:22:55LloreanJdGordon: Ah, that was more or less a unification of features idea.
15:23:15LloreanJdGordon: The Recorders have a second quickscreen, having F1, F2, and F3 buttons.
15:23:33LloreanThe idea was A) to allow access to this screen on any quickscreen target, and B) to reconsider what's on it,.
15:24:20roolkuperldiver: has anyone put rockbox on it yet? Just in case it is something like the outpost batch of h120
15:24:29JdGordonI personally hate the options in the quickscreen :p and now with the way settings are done I tihnk it should be fairly trivial to make it possible for any setting to be on the quickscreen
15:24:50perldiverroolku yes, no problems, people enjoying them
15:25:04Lloreanperldiver: Any clue the serial number range of Gigabeat Fs?
15:25:10perldiverLlorean what makes it strange that champaign was never a US color
15:25:11*roolku wants the quickscreen like it used to be - without explicit enter and exit button presses
15:25:15JdGordondoes that sound like an idea worth playing with?
15:25:35roolkusimilar to how the pitch screen is done now
15:25:58*linuxstb has forgotten how it used to work
15:26:08Lloreanperldiver: Maybe it was, but Office Depot got all of them, and forgot to sell them. :-P
15:26:12perldiverLlorean nope, havent seen them mentioned anywhere
15:26:23linuxstbroolku: Did pressing the button show the quick screen, and then releasing that same button exit it?
15:26:25perldiverLlorean ha
15:26:32roolkulinuxstb: yes
15:26:41linuxstbroolku: That gets my vote too...
15:26:46roolkulinuxstb: and while holding it you could adjust the settings
15:27:00linuxstbObviously... :)
15:27:00Lloreanperldiver: According to the page, my incoming one's serial number starts with a Y, my current one starts with a 6, so I'm wondering if what I'm getting is really an F40.
15:27:21Lloreanroolku: That doesn't work well on several of our SWCodec players
15:27:27Lloreanroolku: Which player were you referring to?
15:27:35linuxstbLlorean: Which ones won't it work on?
15:27:39Lloreanlinuxstb: H100?
15:27:45LloreanOnly the play button can be combined with other buttons
15:27:54LloreanH300 has the same restriction, I believe
15:27:58perldiverLlorean yes, thats an US number for F40, my F20 has 5 and F60 has 7
15:27:58roolkudepending on target (h120 comes to mind) this required some clever state machine
15:28:09LloreanAnd if I recall the X5 has only two buttons (maybe) that can be combined? (Could very easily have that one wrong.
15:28:14perldiveri dont know what Y us
15:28:18linuxstbI thought I remember it working on the h1x0 in the past...
15:28:47roolkuyes, it works on the h120 - you just have to be careful about your actions
15:28:50Lloreanlinuxstb: On the h100 most of the buttons can't be combined, so if it did, there was something clever doing it.
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15:29:08Lloreanroolku: How, holding down Menu conflicts with pressing other buttons.
15:29:13perldiverim missing an F10 though hehe
15:29:17roolkuI think amiconn figured it out and then Kevin couldn't replicate it when he did the multi screen api
15:29:33linuxstbAh, so it was the multi-screen api that broke it?
15:29:37Lloreanroolku: Or is it a case of long-press takes you in, and release takes you out, and since you press other buttons, release doesn't trigger?
15:30:07LloreanOf course, that would assume that Menu is a lower value than the stick.
15:30:15roolkuyes, and then it gor even worse with the action code - now you need to press a button even to enter it
15:30:35Lloreanperldiver: I'm guessing those numbers are mostly consistent then. Office Depot did *not* ship my order the day after I ordered it, despite guaranteed next day shipping.
15:30:51roolkuafter the multi-screen api, at least you could adjust while holding the button
15:30:56Lloreanperldiver: When I called them the day after that, when it still hadn't shipped, their phone person told me they were out of them, and would never be receiving 'em again, and cancelled my order for me.
15:31:04Lloreanperldiver: Then I got a shipping confirmation email 5 hours later.
15:31:09roolkueven though you needed an explicit press to exit
15:31:09*Llorean has no idea what they've shipped him
15:31:28roolkunow it is enter/release - adjust - enter/release
15:31:33perldiverLlorean did you order the paper clips too? :P
15:31:47perldivercause they shipped them seperately
15:31:52Lloreanperldiver: Paper clips?
15:32:09perldiveryes, to get an 15% discount
15:32:13LloreanAh, no.
15:32:20LloreanThe site I ordered from didn't mention such a thing.
15:32:30perldiverhmm than it must be the player
15:32:34*linuxstb wonders how long "Global Priority Mail" from the US Postal Service takes between the US and the UK.
15:32:36LloreanWell they charged me the $99
15:32:40LloreanSo I *hope* it's the player
15:32:41*amiconn wonders what roolku was referring to...
15:34:06roolkulet me see if I can find the commit
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15:42:03amiconnroolku: [15:29:33] <roolku> I think amiconn figured it out and then Kevin couldn't replicate it when he did the multi screen api <== what is this referring to?
15:42:55linuxstbThe old quick-screen behaviour where you pressed a button to enter, and released the same button to leave.
15:43:13amiconnQuickscreens used to be usable in 2 ways
15:44:01amiconn(1) press quickscreen button to enter. Select option(s) with left/down/right. Press quickscreen button again to leave
15:44:33amiconn(2) press *and hold* quickscreen button. While holding, set options with left/down/right. Release quickscreen button to leave
15:45:17amiconn(2) Is the real quick way, but it only works on targets where the quickscreen button and the directions used for options are detectable at the same time
15:45:46amiconnThis is the main reason why there is no option associated with the Up button in the quickscreen, btw
15:46:02bluebrother(2) does not work on h100. It seems to can hang the player :o
15:46:12linuxstbAre we remembering correctly that 2) used to work on the h100?
15:47:01amiconn(2) cannot work on irivers and iaudios
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15:47:48bluebrotherhmm. Press Menu + before the quick menu comes up left. Screen hangs. Shutdown on long stop still works though ...
15:47:59Lloreanlinuxstb: I don't remember that (2) ever did, at least for me.
15:49:22amiconnLlorean: (2) *cannot* work on iriver, due to hardware constraints
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15:50:23Lloreanamiconn: That's what I said, but someone claimed there had once been some clever solution to that.
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15:52:49PaulJam_JdGordon: i have a strange behaviour with the icons for music files: all music files get the icon i specified for .mp3 in the .icons file even if i specify a different icon for them (tested with wav,flac,m4a,mpc)
15:53:00roolkuamiconn: I remember vaguely that it was you who did the quickscreen on the h120, but looking at the log it was christy r6910 (unless you/someone fixed it later)
15:53:22LloreanPaulJam_: I noticed that too, actually, I'd forgotten to bring it up
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15:55:00roolkuI swear (2) used to work on h120, because the mode button has a lower priority then the up/down and you can detect the BUTTON_MODE to BUTTON_UP/LEFT/RIGHT/DOWN transition
15:55:50JdGordonPaulJam_: hmm... this shouldnt happen :p
15:56:07LloreanJdGordon: But it does.
15:56:10roolkumaybe I mis-remember amiconn having anything to do with it, but it definitly worked
15:57:03PaulJam_JdGordon: btw. it seems as if it is still not possible to pecify an icon to a filetype that is not supported by rockbox (even though i'm not sure if this would make sense)
15:57:19JdGordoncorrect, you cant
15:57:28LloreanSo the filetype has to have a viewer associated?
15:57:46JdGordonyeah, or built in
15:57:51LloreanYeah, that's what I meant.
15:59:13JdGordonbugger... I know the problem.. I was wrong about icons_init not needing filetypes_init to be run
15:59:16*JdGordon fixes
16:00:00roolkuamiconn: look at where you discussed the issue with cassandra. She confirms that the quickscreen works at 10:08
16:04:46FebsI propose to make the following changes to the installation instructions in the manual:
16:05:12Febs1. Move the description of the 3 types of builds from section 2.2.2 to the introduction in section 2.2.3 so that section 2.2.2 is more streamlined and easier to follow.
16:05:12JdGordonPaulJam_: Llorean: hmm... maybe it isnt such a simple fix
16:05:24 Quit PaulJam__ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
16:05:50Febs2. Create a separate section 2.2.4 with instructions for downloading extras. Currently, this is the fonts package, but may include themes depending on the outcome of the discussion currently being held on the mailing list.
16:06:06LloreanFebs: Fonts, and the Doom Wads can be mentioned in 2.2.4
16:06:26LloreanFebs: But how would moving them to 2.2.3 make things easier, unless we're just going to have 2.2.2 arbitrarily tell them to use the current build?
16:06:33Llorean"them" being the build descriptions
16:08:21FebsLlorean: for one, on platforms that have not had a formal release, the instructions could just read "Download a current build," with "current build" being link to the appropriate page.
16:08:47LloreanFebs: I agree, but what about for the few targets that do have a formal release?
16:09:07 Quit austriancoder (SendQ exceeded)
16:09:40LloreanI suppose there's not *really* a need to mention it there, honestly
16:09:48FebsThose instructions could say: "Download the latest release or a current build."
16:10:33LloreanWe shouldn't mention the Release in the manual at all.
16:10:54LloreanThere is a version of the manual for the release (sorta), and because of the huge discrepancy between features offered, there's no real reason to.
16:11:06LloreanA release-edition of the manual could go with 3.0 if/when it happens, anyway.
16:11:33 Quit spiorf ("Sto andando via")
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16:12:08FebsGood point. The last "release edition" manual was for 2.4, not 2.5, but the fact remains that this manual relates to the current build, not the 2.5 release.
16:13:12XavierGrquickscreen just worked for me on both H100 and H300
16:13:45XavierGrah but didn't try to hold the button
16:13:56XavierGrbut as amiconn said it shouldn't work on H100
16:14:17roolkuXavierGr: read my justification why it did work
16:15:20XavierGrroolku: to tell you the truth I never really used quick screen that way (holding the mode button)
16:15:26roolkuif you still don't believe it, build revision 6910 and try :)
16:15:43XavierGrbut right now it only works like (1)
16:15:49roolkuyeah, I know. Nobody seems to :(
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16:16:03Lloreanroolku: You are free to fix it, you know
16:16:26XavierGrwell I tried with latest build and (2) doesn't work, but I never knew it worked that way too
16:17:08XavierGrthe same applies with H300 (which the mode button is independent from the directional ones)
16:17:08linuxstbroolku: I believed you :)
16:17:21roolkulinuxstb: :)
16:17:42linuxstbRockbox can always achieve the impossible...
16:18:01XavierGrindeed :D
16:18:10Hammer89is the mpegplayer plugin supposed to automatically start the next mpeg file in a folder?
16:18:10LloreanWell, as long as you watch for transitions without releases in between, you could manage something like that.
16:18:16LloreanHammer89: No.
16:18:24Hammer89okay, thanks :)
16:18:50Hammer89will that be implemented in future versions?
16:18:59*linuxstb is reminded of the quote "ALGOL 60 was a great improvement on its successors"
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16:19:07LloreanHammer89: If someone implements it, yes.
16:19:19Hammer89okay :)
16:19:22LloreanHammer89: Remember: Open source project, volunteers, no solid plans.
16:19:28Hammer89I know ;)
16:19:37LloreanBut basic playlisting support of some sort seems a likely feature for *someone* to implement.
16:19:51*Llorean has already stated his preferred 'next feature' for it.
16:20:57linuxstbLlorean: A resume feature would mean remembering the entire state of the decoder, which isn't trivial. especially as audio is decoded a few seconds in advance of video. I think seeking would be simpler.
16:21:38linuxstbEspecially as jhMikeS seems to have rewritten mpegplayer with a view to making seeking straightforward.
16:22:45LloreanOh, well seeking would make me happy too.
16:23:03LloreanMy desire is for "any method that allows me to accidentally let it idle power off, then not have to watch an hour of a video to see the last 20 minutes"
16:23:35Hammer89it'll automatically power off while playing a video?
16:24:51LloreanIt'll automatically power off if you pause the video and put it in your pocket.
16:25:29*Llorean wonders what the maximum video runtime is now, with jhMike's improvements.
16:25:57Hammer89usually if I have a long video I split it into chapter or time divisions... so some sort of playlisting is most important to me... seeking would definitely be nice too, though ;)
16:28:11linuxstbLlorean: Have you thought about a video forum? I'm not sure if we need one yet though...
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16:29:01Lloreanlinuxstb: I've considered it, but I'm not sure if it needs its own forum, at least not yet.
16:29:55LloreanI'm not sure what exactly would be discussed though, in the end.
16:30:05 Quit RaRe ("The Evolution of Medicine - 2000 BC - Here, eat this root. 1000 AD - That root is heathen. Here, say this prayer. 1850 AD - T)
16:31:20LloreanI'm also toying with the idea of making "Audio Playback" into general "Playback" or "Audio and Video Playback" (for clarity)
16:32:45 Quit Rift (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
16:34:08joshinI'd think that many people wouldn't bother with Video Playback on small screen devices and video playback posts would get lost in the noise
16:36:02Lloreanjoshin: As a general rule, if a post isn't answered by the time it gets off page 1, it's probably not getting answered at all, anyway.
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16:41:30Topy44i use a cowon iaudio x5l running rockbox and the original firmware (with recording time hack) using the dual bootloader
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16:42:27Topy44i just found out about the "Recording Enhancements Pack" on the forum
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16:43:07Topy44are there any precompiled builds for the x5 available that already include the REP?
16:43:32Topy44i would like to avoid having to compile it myself
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16:44:21B4gdercheck around the unofficial builds
16:44:22Topy44also, i am having a lot of trouble recording for prolonged times - i get "warning:0000002" warnings after some time
16:45:00Topy44but i was using the release builds up to now, gotta try again using the nightly builds
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16:45:13LloreanThere have been no release builds.
16:45:42Topy44right, i mixed stuff up, just forget my last post. :)
16:45:50B4gderTopy44: if you want to test a patch that isn't in the svn builds then using an svn build is kind of not a choice ;-)
16:47:06Topy44B4gder, what i ment was: i did not test if the "warning:0000002" error occures with any other build
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16:47:35Topyargh, got disconnected
16:47:51B4gderTopy: if there is no bug report for it and if you can repeat the problem, filing a new entry would be a good idea
16:48:49Topyi will try to find the exact conditions where the warning shows up. i had some serious trouble two weeks ago when i recorded a whole festival, i had major FAT corruption
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16:49:13Topyended up loosing some of the recorded material and having to manually reconstruct the recordings by loading a disk image as raw wave...
16:50:47Topyis there a list of unofficial builds other than the threads in the forum? i can only find one single X5 build there
16:52:44LloreanTopy: That forum is the list.
16:52:53LloreanAs far as what people care to come and post about.
16:53:10LloreanBuild maintainers don't always care to have a forum thread, or even announce their build outside of their own forums.
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16:54:42Topyi will try that "ColdSphinX csBuild" then
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17:02:46JdGordonPaulJam: Llorean: remind me tomorow about the bug you wanted me to fix... not gonna happen tonight
17:04:14LloreanJdGordon: The mp3 represents all music files issue?
17:04:33JdGordonumm... yeah
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17:04:42JdGordonim going to bed in a min and gonna forget
17:05:46PaulJamyou could fix it by calling it a feature (so the user doesn't have to specify every audiofile extension in the .icons file)
17:06:06JdGordonim not M$ :D
17:07:23LloreanI bet fixing it would involve a lot of the same work for allowing filetypes not built-in and not in viewers.config (or at least, I bet it could)
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17:07:45JdGordonno, it should be working... my very quick debug session before didnt show up anything
17:07:52JdGordonthen i was taken awak from the comp
17:08:08pondlifeDid the mono problem get fixed yet (i.e black background)
17:08:55pondlifeJust wondered
17:11:11Topywhat is the battery capacity of the iaudio X5L?
17:12:11***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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17:15:47Topyah found it myself. search-lazy me
17:18:37PaulJamheh, finally i found out where the reverse cursor icon is used in rockbox: in the virtual keyboard
17:18:39bluebrotheryou're aware that the battery capacity setting in Rockbox is only used for the remaining runtime estimate?
17:18:55spiorfLittle WPS question: Can i put two conditionals one inside another?
17:20:39PaulJamspiorf: yes
17:22:12PaulJamspiorf: if you maen something like: %?mh<%?mr<%xdD|%xdB>|%?mr<%xdC|>>
17:22:49spiorfPaulJam, yes, i meant like that
17:25:08Topybluebrother, yes, and since i use the unit mainly for recording that is quite a useful feature
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17:25:38LloreanTopy: It's not so helpful with recording, the estimate is based on playback time.
17:26:04Topyhm, ok then... whatever, cant be a bad thing to set it correctly anyway :)
17:26:37*Llorean wonders if maybe it would be good to remove that "feature" entirely, with so many different platforms and codecs now.
17:26:56LloreanIt really doesn't serve much useful purpose as long as the % degrades linearly over time.
17:27:19pondlifeWithout it would there be any chance of a runtime estimate?
17:27:35pondlife(Not that it's accurate for most targets anyway)
17:27:40LloreanI meant removing the whole runtime estimate feature.
17:27:45LloreanIt's mostly pointless.
17:27:52pondlifeYes, it's a MAS-only feature at best.
17:27:56LloreanIt only works if your battery is newer than a certain age *and* you playback under certain conditions.
17:28:20pondlifeMaybe it could learn from one charge to the next?
17:28:39LloreanIf anything, the screen should just ask for "expected battery runtime" and give your estimate by using the current level % as applied to what you think the runtime will be. :-P
17:28:44pondlifei.e. Assume a particular user's usage pattern is fairly regular
17:29:05pondlifeMaybe it should work based on a previous battery_bench output?
17:29:31LloreanI'd rather just see the feature scrapped entirely.
17:29:50LloreanIt's (mostly) misleading, requires calibration, and we could recover a (small) bit of code size.
17:30:31LloreanI mean the mental math to estimate how much runtime you've got left based off the battery percentage isn't exactly college level.
17:31:46*Llorean wonders if removing a feature qualifies as a feature request.
17:32:05pondlifeRequest to simplify and hence improve Rockbox....
17:32:11Topyan option to see the current battery voltage instead of the percentage would be nice.. i guess the percentage isnt anywhere near linear?
17:32:23LloreanTopy: The percentage is calibrated to be linear.
17:32:34LloreanOr at least, we try, when we can, to calibrate it.
17:32:39pondlifeThe voltage is not linear for sure
17:32:41Topyas in, 0% is "the unit turns off now"?
17:32:41LloreanThe voltage is generally much less useful.
17:33:01Topyok, then it makes sence. i thought the percentage would just be based on the voltage
17:33:03Llorean50% means "you're halfway through with your allotted time", 0% means "It's turning off now", etc, when calibration is right.
17:33:12LloreanIt's based off a voltage curve.
17:33:41Topy(sorry if what i say does not make much sence, my english isnt as good as it used to be)
17:33:55LloreanNah, I think I've got it.
17:35:17Topysetting up to compile rockbox myself now, the "csBuild" does not work for me (it seems the included REP does not include AGC)
17:36:44LloreanTopy: AGC should be in SVN Rockbox now... it must be a pretty old build?
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17:37:35TopyLlorean, oh, really? where are its options? meaby i am just to stupid to use rockbox :)
17:38:14LloreanTopy: Dunno, honestly, I never record, but I'm almost sure (not 100%) that it got committed.
17:38:40Topywell, where SHOULD the options be?
17:38:47Topylike, setting it to live/dj/whatever mode
17:38:52amiconnAGC is in SVN (but swcodec only)
17:38:58LloreanTopy: See the manual.
17:41:05TopyLlorean, i might seem like a total idiot/noob now, but: i cannot find any reference to AGC in the manual at all. could it be that the manual for the X5 version is outdated?
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17:41:59LloreanTopy: Actually, it looks like it may not have been added to the manual.
17:42:12LloreanTopy: But as I said, I don't record, I have no idea where the setting should be in the various recording settings.
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17:42:30Topyphew, so at least its not my fault for not finding it :)
17:43:04pixelmathe manual is pitily not very desriptive about recording at all
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17:43:28Lloreanpixelma: I just noticed while looking.
17:43:53linuxstbTopy: It seems only the H300/H100 manuals describe AGC...
17:44:06linuxstbI don't know if that means it's not implemented for the X5.
17:44:34linuxstbIf you can't see it in the Recording settings menu, then I would guess it isn't available.
17:44:36AdministratorTomhey guys, i have a iriver h10 5gb, i havnt really used my iriver cause the battery was so poor with the rockbox program. I was wondering if the code has become beter in the past 5 months, has the battery improved at all
17:45:15linuxstbTopy: Yes, I've just checked the code, and AGC is only for H100/H300
17:46:08AdministratorTom?? what u reckon guys
17:46:12linuxstbAdministratorTom: Rockbox has improved in the last 5 months, but the battery issue on H10 and ipods hasn't been solved.
17:46:33AdministratorTomok what improvments have been made?
17:46:43pixelmahmm... I'm not sure but I think that there is no AGC on the iaudios - I _believe_ they only have two gain settings so not much to adjust for AGC
17:46:45AdministratorTomi have bad vision and i love how i can change the colours so i can read it and the voice.
17:46:49Lloreanlinuxstb: Is that an issue of hardware or just someone leaving it out of hte defines?
17:47:14linuxstbLlorean: I'm guessing it's a hardware issue, but I don't know.
17:47:17pixelmabut better ask someone with more knowledge
17:47:21Topylinuxstb, that explains it. only implemented on h100/h300 builds or wont it work on x5 at all?
17:47:44Topyas in: can i integrate the patch myself without extensive coding knowledge?
17:47:46linuxstbTopy: You're talking to people who don't know the recording code in Rockbox...
17:48:05linuxstbpetur and jhMikeS are probably the people to ask.
17:48:14pixelmaLlorean: I can only set 0db or +20dB as gain in the recording screen (M5)
17:48:45linuxstbpixelma: Then it does sound like a hardware limitation.
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17:49:03Lloreanpixelma: Then that makes sense for why there's no AGC.
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17:49:23bluebrotherTopy: the x5 doesn't have AGC because the hardware isn't precise enough
17:50:04pixelmathat's what I think too, and I vaguely remember hearing something about this
17:50:20bluebrotherI definitely remember this being the issue ;-)
17:50:22Topynot precice enough?
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17:50:46Topyi can select the recording gain in finer steps on mine
17:50:56bluebrotheryes, the gain control is not fine grained enough for that feature to make sense
17:51:03amiconnX5 and M5 don't have AGC for microphone
17:51:17Topyso the changes would be to harsh?
17:51:24amiconnFor line in AGC should be possible, but I don't remember whether it's implemented
17:51:32bluebrotherI don't know the details, but that was the explanation, at least what I understood ;)
17:51:37Topy(i only use line in)
17:51:40pixelmaah... that's the only thing I tried (and am able to here ATM)
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17:52:12bluebrotherIIRC there was a (not so long) time with AGC enabled on X5 builds.
17:53:32pixelma(i.e. no subpack - no line-in :/ )
17:53:41*Llorean doesn't see AGC mentioned in relation to X5 in the changelog at all
17:54:03LloreanAt least not in the comments containing "AGC" or "gain control"
17:55:46linuxstbThe logs for config-iaudiox5.h (where it would need to be enabled) don't show it either...
17:55:52Topyyes, the x5 only has 2 gain settings for the internal mic, but proper gain control for the line in (same with the original firmware, 2 steps for mic, 10 steps for line)
17:56:02Topymeaby just noone ever tried it :)
17:56:11linuxstbOnly 10 steps? That seems low.
17:56:17Topywell, there are more in rockbox
17:56:36Topybut probably cowon just didnt implement more in their firmware
17:56:50Topydefault is 7, which seems to be rougly 0db
17:57:28Topyi have other strange problems with recording in rockbox, but i guess its not much use discussing these when noone is around that actually uses the recording feature :)
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17:58:13Topyin general, the x5l is a very nice machine for taping, especially because of its immense battery capacity
17:59:10Topyi recorded about 15 hours live without charging, and the battery wasnt completely flat yet
17:59:52Topythe subpack sucks though... i ordered a plug from now to make a custom line in cable to connect to the mic preamp
18:00:42linuxstbUnless I'm misunderstanding sound.c, the H100/H300 seem to allow gain from -128 to 96 in steps of 1 for line-in and -128 to 108 for mic. The X5 allows from 0 to 31 for line-in and 0 to 1 for mic.
18:01:13Topyi am using soundprofessionals' SP-CMC4 (audio technica capsules) through a SP-Preamp (preamp and battery pack) connected to the x5 for recording live metal concerts. the results are brilliant, except for the problems mentioned
18:01:27Topylinuxstb, uff, thats a difference alright...
18:02:22Topyi recorded using both the original firmware and rockbox, the original firmware supports mp3 recording only (up to 320kbit)
18:02:42Topyit seems that i have more trouble with distortion when using rockbox, but i could not make direct comparsions yet
18:02:54Topyi will do some more testing tonight at our band rehearsal
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18:23:34PaulJamis there somewhere a complete list of the file extensions that are supported by rockbox?
18:25:40nlsfirmware/id3.c and apps/pluginsviewers.config
18:26:04nlsinsert / between plugins and viewers.config
18:27:54PaulJamwhat about extension like .fnt or . lng?
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18:30:07nlsPaulJam: in apps/tree.c there's a better list
18:30:19PaulJamthank you
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18:44:56pondlifePaulJam: You'd think that would be in filetypes.c, wouldn't you ;)
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19:17:13PaulJamis there a reason why rockbox_flash is compiled for the H300 and associated to .iriver files?
19:17:40LloreanBecause it's expected that we'll be able to flash them like we do the h100s, I assume.
19:18:01LloreanThey should still RoLo unless you "Open With"
19:18:46roolkuno that is a bug (should not be compiled for h100 either)
19:19:48roolkuwhoops rockbox_flash is archos only, isn't it?
19:19:49PaulJamlooks like it is compiled on targets
19:20:08Lloreanroolku: Well, it depends on whether he means "firmware_flash" or "iriver_flash"
19:20:11*roolku was thinking about iriver_flash
19:20:23Lloreanroolku: But iriver_flash is compiled for H100, and why shouldn't it be?
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19:21:26roolkuPaulJam: from rockbox_flash: #if !defined(SIMULATOR) && (CONFIG_CPU == SH7034) /* Only for SH targets */
19:22:22linuxstb_PaulJam: Are you using a sim?
19:23:16PaulJamh300 sim for windows
19:23:26linuxstb_Try a real build...
19:26:51amiconnPaulJam: Maybe it's compiled, but it's empty
19:27:04amiconnIf you try to run it you'll get incompatible model
19:27:42 Nick bagawk_ is now known as bagawk (n=lee@unaffiliated/bagawk)
19:30:10PaulJamyes, the zip for the actual darget doen't contain it. sorry for the confusion.
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19:34:31amiconn'make zip' leaves out zero-byte files, but empty sim plugins aren't zero-byte files
19:35:03amiconnSo 'make install' even installs those empty plugins... looks like apps/plugins/SOURCES needs some fixing
19:37:13linuxstb_Seems there are two such empty plugins - rockbox_flash and firmware_flash
19:39:01LloreanWhy're there two flashing plugins?
19:40:23amiconnfirmwar_flash does the initial flash (flash loader + bootbox + space for a second image), rockbox_flash is a viewer and handles updating the second (main) image (.ucl)
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19:43:30Cojyhi guys
19:43:36Cojycan I ask somethin'?
19:44:10Cojydoes anybody know if the firmware of the creative zen vision m can be modified?
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19:46:16linuxstb_Cojy: Anything can be modified if you try hard enough...
19:46:29*roolku notices some interesting gigabeat stuff in the hardware forum
19:46:58linuxstb_Cojy: Seen this thread?
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19:51:51desowinGigabeat F firmware hacking information (Read 404 times)
19:51:54desowinnice number
19:54:59*moos is reading too ... :)
19:55:10moosreally interesting posts
19:57:26linuxstb_Anyone downloaded the files? I can't face
19:58:52mooswhich ones do you want?
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20:05:03linuxstb_Moos: It's OK, thanks. isn't too bad compared to some of the other free download sites.
20:05:20mooshehe, no problems :)
20:06:06linuxstb_Although I lost my connection during a download and now it thinks I'm still downloading a file...
20:15:20preglowanyone know when soc final allocations are made?
20:15:23preglowor are they already?
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20:18:27desowinpreglow: those are already
20:19:04desowinpreglow: only if student can't take part, he still can tell it to google, so he's place will be taken by someone else
20:19:53desowinatleast it's what was written in "congratulations" email ...
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20:27:00*roolku has "Powerup on AC plugin" and "Shorted delay on POWER" on his gigabeat now. :)
20:27:07roolkuexcellent stuff
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20:33:18amiconnHow long does the gigabeat (normally) need from pressing power to resuming playback in rockbox?
20:35:31Lloreanamiconn: If you leave all the original firmware files on disk (don't replace them with the minimalized ones), you end up with if I recall about 7-8 seconds?
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20:36:16LloreanWell, that's to "filetree", I don't have resume on startup enabled.
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20:48:20roolkuamiconn: I never measured, but a very long press was needed to initiate the boot - IIUC this is what has been shortened
20:48:55roolkucar adapter mode is working as advertised with the mod - now i just need a car :)
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21:03:13Lloreanperldiver: Mine just arrived, the box claims it's champagne aluminum, but side by side with my silver the only really noticeable differences are that it's a bit shinier, and the words "Toshiba" and "Gigabeat F40" on the front are dark instead of white.
21:03:36LloreanIt also doesn't have the holographic sticker on the back that my other one has, I'm not sure if that's standard or not, though.
21:05:58 Quit xwaydoublecode1 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
21:07:46markunroolku: nice
21:08:05markunnext will be to have our own bootloader in flash
21:08:40*Llorean looks forward to that.
21:09:53 Quit nls (Remote closed the connection)
21:09:55 Join SliMM [0] (n=chatzill@
21:10:04markunLlorean: with sleep mode support!
21:10:23markunhi SliMM
21:10:25Lloreanmarkun: I'd just like fast boot times, and no stupid Toshiba progress bar. :)
21:11:15markunLlorean: it's also nice if you pause too long, it enters sleep mode (which it does now anyway) and you can turn it on and continue your music without rebuffering
21:11:39markunshould be a very fast boot time
21:12:16LloreanThat ought to be nice.
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21:22:07*linuxstb_ is happy to see shoora's realname in his source files...
21:23:41markunyes, that's a nice start
21:27:41 Quit brun0_ ("Au revoir!")
21:29:23pixelmathat's strange - for the greyscale remote everything is set up so that it can use greyscale default icons (there is a ...x2.bmp and it's referenced in SOURCES) - but for the greyscale main lcds there is no ..x2.bmp and in the respective SOURCES it's defined to use the mono bitmap...
21:30:15SliMMis it 'useless' or 'useles'?
21:30:30SliMMand 'harmful' or 'harmfull'?
21:30:51SliMMmarkun: thanks
21:31:00markunI have to use it a lot too :)
21:31:29*markun is not great at spelling in most languages
21:32:09Lloreanpixelma: What target has a 2bpp remote?
21:35:44pixelmashould I "fix" this (also add a dummy icons.bmp and change SOURCES respectively)? I mean it will be only a copy of the mono icons but that's what's used for colour screens too (almost)
21:35:58Llorean Probably
21:37:59markunSliMM: useful site?
21:38:21SliMMmarkun: indeed
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21:49:58SliMMmay i take ColdSphinX's gif viewer andmake it avaiable for grayscale targets too?
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21:59:01 Join Spec [0] (n=nwheeler@ubuntu/member/spec)
21:59:17Specso what's the easiest way to get album art for a bunch of music? is there a cddb-like-thing for album art? :p
21:59:39Domonokyis there a way to resize the vmware image ??
21:59:41 Join darkless [0] (
22:00:05*Domonoky found something..
22:00:10oboSpec: apt-get install albumart
22:01:22Specalso, when i'm done playing it best to hold down play to turn it off, or is there a suspend-to-ram/sleep type option?
22:01:49 Quit Lear ("Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox]")
22:01:55Bagderthere's no suspend function
22:03:02Specwouldn't that eat less power than booting every time i turn it on?
22:03:30Bagderthe most power-eating things are the harddrive and LCD anyway
22:04:18SliMMfine, i'll wait for coldsphinx
22:04:24Specisn't the harddrive used extensively on bootup?
22:04:35Specerr, i take that back, reading the ram from the hd is gonna be the same -.-
22:04:52SliMManyway, how many bpp has a "grayscale" target?
22:04:54preglowBagder: i thought lcd hardly east anything
22:04:57preglowcouple of miliamps or something
22:05:05BagderI meant backlight
22:05:16preglowthen we're in agreement after all :>
22:05:21LloreanSliMM: The H100, iPod 4G, and M5 I believe are all 2bpp
22:05:26*Llorean isn't 100% sure about the M5
22:05:56SliMMso should i make the gifviewer work with the famous grayscale lib?
22:06:08LloreanIf you're going to adapt it, yes.
22:06:35SliMMand does the grayscale lib work on 1bpp lcds?
22:06:50DomonokySliMM: would be good, the jpeg viewer also uses the grayscalelib
22:06:52 Quit Soader03 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
22:06:56LloreanSliMM: Yes, it does.
22:07:03Domonokyand it works on 1bpp display
22:07:03moosLorean: the iaudio remote is yeah
22:07:11 Quit rift_ ("Lost terminal")
22:07:17SliMMi'll take a look over the grayscale lib then
22:07:45*SliMM will be back in 10
22:07:53 Join webguest77 [0] (i=534349e3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
22:08:00Specand one final question....what's the best way to convert music already on the iPod in iTunes format into rockbox-goodness? I built the database on rockbox, but some of the song names/titles are like "DZSP", etc, and sometimes the song names are correct...
22:08:08 Join ctaf [0] (
22:08:28markunSpec: do you still have the files on you computer?
22:08:43Specmarkun: yes and no....the files are in existances, but it might take me a week to get to 'em
22:09:01markunwell, I don't know the easiest way
22:09:03Specdoes a weird-filename imply there is no id3 tag for the file?
22:09:22markunthe reason you are seeing the weird titles is because they are not all properly tagged
22:09:34Specok, so manually tagging each file = the solution :-/
22:09:55webguest77hi all... anyone know why some tracks should show under <untagged> in the database but playing the track and "show ID3 info" gives the correct tag
22:09:57markunjust the files wich show strange names
22:10:18Specof the thousands of files, i don't know exactly which ones show strange names
22:10:24markunwebguest77: no, not really
22:10:27Specbut i can write a script that'll tell me if there's no id3tag present
22:10:55Bagderwebguest77: sounds like a database bug if so
22:11:10PaulJamwebguest77: were the tags incorrect when you initialized the database?
22:11:21 Join crop [0] (i=95e13c1e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
22:11:40webguest77PaulJam: possibly but I believe I reinitialised it?
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22:12:07cropShouldn't "Reset settings" also set the WPS to the default one? It just hasn't on the gigabeat sim.
22:12:30markuncrop: yes, I it should
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22:13:21Specso there is no decent album art database?
22:13:23webguest77Spec: have you tried something like
22:13:50cropmarkun: hm... it didn't work for me. Could you also test it?
22:13:57Specoh wow, renames files based on tags
22:14:08markuncrop: in the sim?
22:14:11Specwebguest77: does it run on linux?
22:14:22pixelmaLlorean: yes the M5 has a 2bpp screen
22:14:22webguest77Spec: dunno, sorry
22:14:22cropAnd one more thing: how can I (re)set the WPS to the default one without resetting all the settings?
22:14:24Specnope :p
22:15:00cropmarkun: yes, I only tested on the sim. But I'll test on target as well. I think it doesn't depend on the platform.
22:15:03Lloreancrop: Choose "rockbox_default" from browse themes, or browse .wps
22:15:19oboSpec: have a look at picard - another apt-gettable one
22:15:31cropLlorean: is there such theme? Or only font?
22:15:31Specobo: you weren't kidding about albumart?
22:15:40Specobo: what distro/repository? it's not on my ubuntu repo
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22:15:45Lloreancrop: There's a wps for it at least.
22:15:48obono, I use it here
22:15:50Lloreancrop: There might also be a theme.
22:16:22oboSpec: it's in edgy and feisty
22:16:25Specare there any plugins that visualize audio output other than the oscilloscope?
22:16:38Specobo: ah hah, i believe i checked on a dapper
22:16:42webguest77PaulJam: did you have something in mind - files to try deleting or something like that?
22:17:29cropLlorean: yes, on target (not the latest build though) there is rockbox_default theme, but not on the sim (latest build)
22:17:29 Quit jpn445[fr] ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
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22:17:56PaulJamyou could delete the *.tcd files from the .rockbox directory and reinitioalize the database. export your runtimeinfo before if you use that.
22:18:15PaulJamthis was for webguest77
22:18:17 Part Llorean
22:18:29webguest77PaulJam: ok, willing to try it
22:18:38 Part ctaf
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22:19:29Specso are there any configuration tips/tricks for getting the music to switch tracks faster (ie: pushing "next" in the middle of a song has a noticable delay)
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22:20:11PaulJamSpec: do you have crossfading enabled?
22:20:19Speci disabled it
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22:21:10 Join TrueJournals [0] (
22:21:25Specoh yeah, on an ipod 5g (video), shouldn't i be able to plug in the output of another mp3 player, and record the input?
22:21:30cropHow can I install the packaged themes on the sim? I did make && make install but find no themes on the sim
22:22:10 Quit Hammer89 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22:23:28cropOh, themes are not in SVN?
22:23:53SliMMcrop: just rockboxed, ichatcher and boxes
22:24:04pixelmadepends on the target
22:24:06SliMMunicatcher and the rockbox default
22:24:27SliMMdepends on the target, as pixelma said
22:24:47webguest77PaulJam: well that worked :)
22:25:17webguest77(it seems that reinitialising doesn't work very well - or I messed it up)
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22:26:13cropSliMM: I see many WPS's in SVN but none is installed (copied to archos) by make install. Is it ok?
22:26:39PaulJamwebguest77: did you use "update now" or "initialize now" after you changed the tags?
22:27:04SliMMwell, in the ipod 5g sim, there is rockboxed, i/uni catcher and boxes
22:27:08webguest77I believe I tried both - as you do
22:27:37cropSliMM: after make install? Or is there another make target?
22:27:49SliMMno, after make install
22:28:56cropHrm. Not for me. At least not for gigabeat and h120
22:29:15Spec what is the "bindiretional scroll limit"?
22:29:36Specand is there a way to "accelerate" scrolling, ie: step up the scrolling speed if you keep scrolling down a long list
22:30:20cropFonts are all installed (copied) but not the WPS's
22:30:30RincewindSpec: it should accelerate automatically
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22:31:10Specit seems to get slower :-/
22:31:58 Quit webguest33 (Client Quit)
22:32:09Specdefinitely seems like it has a negative acceleration :p
22:32:23SliMMi'll see what i can do with the gif viewer tommorow
22:32:46SliMMwill it be comitted if i add grayscale support?
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22:33:41DomonokySliMM: depends .. :-)
22:33:50BagderSliMM: possibly, yes
22:33:54SliMMdepends on what?
22:34:13DomonokySliMM: it should match the coding styles, work on every possible target..
22:34:54SliMMi will just add some #ifdefs and use the grayscale lib, it's not my work
22:35:04 Quit Rincewind ("Cya")
22:35:25Domonokythere is no garantie for commiting.. :-)
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22:36:22SliMMi have a difficult time in understainding someone else's code, that's why i can't do more than add grayscale support
22:37:42Domonoky_its fine, add it, and somebody else can improve it more, if it needs more work.. just dont expect it to be commited asap..
22:37:42 Quit crop ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
22:38:02SliMMok :)
22:38:32SliMMi'll talk to coldsphinx, mabe he helps me in understainding how gifs can be decoded
22:38:59SliMMso i can make my on gif decoding function, and make an extensible image viewer
22:39:16SliMMmy own*
22:39:40SliMMbut now it's time to say good night
22:39:49SliMMor rather good bye :)
22:39:54Domonoky_an extensible image viewer would be nice.. but i think thats not an easy task..
22:42:35SliMMDomonoky_: once i understaind gif, jpeg and png decoding, i can make a separate function for eachone that dumps the data into a fb_data array and do scaling and other stuff on that array independently
22:43:05Bagderthe fb_data is the frame buffer
22:43:33SliMMfb_data is short int iirc
22:43:34Bagderyou should scale things _from_ that, but rather to that
22:43:47BagderSliMM: it depends on target
22:44:03SliMMwell, short int array than
22:44:13Bagderyes, depending on what target
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22:45:14SliMMBagder: i think is more cpu-intensive to read and decode every time zooming is performed
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22:45:29moosSliMM: you may clean up already your own patch and get it commited first ( ;P
22:45:31BagderI didn't say you had to do that
22:46:04Bagdermaybe I misunderstood
22:46:20SliMMmoos: what's wrong with it? :)
22:46:38SliMMBagder: maybe i misunderstood :)
22:46:55moosask commiters that would look at it and make it svn material
22:47:29SliMMBagder, could you please take a look over my patch at
22:47:46SliMMand make it svn material if possible? :)
22:48:10SliMMor tell me what i should do to make it commitable
22:48:22Bagderlong lines
22:48:33SliMMno tabs?
22:48:48SliMMwhy shouldn't i use tabs?
22:48:51Bagderand perhaps most importantly, why the rush to add something that nobody uses?
22:49:09BagderSliMM: you should follow the rockbox-style of indenting source code
22:49:37SliMMBagder: no rush, moos just told me that i should get my patch commited :)
22:50:06 Join gigapete [0] (i=4434b650@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
22:50:07SliMMBagder: a wiki link pls to take a look over rockbox-style of indenting source code
22:50:12BagderSliMM: and you blindly do what people ask you? ;-)
22:50:25SliMMBagder: not always
22:50:41gigapetehey guys, i've reformatted my gigabeat f40 and now i can't even get it to power up, can anyone offer some advise?
22:50:54moosSliMM: I meant take in exemple to how to do for folow the rockbox rules, even if the patch isn't usuful, made it clean is good for you first
22:51:00linuxstb_gigapete: Yes, don't do that...
22:51:59SliMMmoos: it looked pretty clean to me :)
22:52:06 Part lowlight
22:52:53moosBagder just pointed you some rockbox code style for exemple
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22:54:18moosonce you will get all the "how to make things clean and svn material", you will can made usuful patch (that just what I wanted to say first)
22:54:40SliMMmoos: ok :)
22:54:59 Quit Domonoky (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:55:06SliMMi've read that before, Bagder, but not completly :)
22:55:30dionoealinuxstb_: can rockbox render text over the mpegplayer output ?
22:55:40 Quit jgarvey ("Leaving")
22:55:47linuxstb_dionoea: No.
22:55:55markundionoea: not yet, but jhMikeS had some nice ideas for overlay
22:56:09SliMMCR LF is no problem, tabs.. i don't think they're a problem.. 80 columns lines.. this needs some wortk :)
22:56:50SliMMmarkun: what ideas? :D
22:57:22dionoeait's not rendering in the same buffer or something ?
22:57:47SliMMdamn, it's late here, good bye
22:57:50 Quit SliMM ("Chatzilla 0.9.74 [Firefox]")
22:57:59markunsupplying a mask to the yuv2rgb function
22:58:16markunwhich will decide which pixels should be taken from the framebuffer and which from the yuv buffer
22:58:23dionoeacan't you render after the call to the yuv rendering function?
22:58:34dionoea(might be inefficient)
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22:58:57markundionoea: if you do it during the yuv conversion you don't need to convert all the pixels to RGB
22:59:00dionoeaor maybe even render the text directly in y(uv)
22:59:15 Quit johnnyoc3 (Client Quit)
22:59:40dionoeaso you render it in the y buffer using white/black (won't need any rendering in the chroma buffers)
22:59:47markundionoea: and we were also thinking of adding support for alpha blending
23:00:21markunwhat about the progress bar while seeking?
23:00:32dionoeaoh, i though that there were CPU problems when runing mpegplayer :)
23:00:49Bagderdionoea: those gigabeaters you know... :-)
23:00:50markundionoea: jhMikeS and I both have a Gigabeat :)
23:00:54dionoeaah :)
23:01:16markunwe'll see how well it turns out, it will just be an experiment
23:01:52dionoeaI'll try to render some (constant) string on top of the yuv buffer to see if it can be done at reasonable speed
23:05:19*TrueJournals hugs loadable icons :-D
23:10:11Spechow hard would it be to implement a new "way" to browse the database?
23:10:47SpecI want an A-Z listing on the left side, and while you scroll down the A-Z list, on the right side of the screen it should show the files that begin with that letter, then when you click on "B" for example, you'll go to the second window and be able to scroll down the songs starting with "b"
23:11:23TrueJournalsLike the way the Zen does it?
23:11:28Speci haven't seen a zen
23:11:36Specit's like the way the old Rios did it
23:11:42TrueJournalsAh, because my friend has one and that's exactly what it does
23:11:58TrueJournalsAnyway, I'm no coder, but I think that would require quite a bit of work
23:12:22***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:12:54markunSpec: I have some ideas for that
23:13:01 Quit chelli ("Client exiting")
23:13:02markunbut more flexible than A-Z listing
23:13:12markunwill also work with other languages for example
23:14:04Specwell, i can program a little, but not much C
23:14:15Speci could probably figure out how to do it, as long as i could make a "window" in rockbox-land
23:15:10Specare there any patches for things like this?
23:15:23Specalternate database-browsing methods, that is
23:15:23markunsearch the patch tracker, I didn't really look
23:15:36markunI didn't want to do it just for te database of course
23:15:49markunfor any list
23:16:16Specare you a programmer?
23:16:23Specfamiliar with rockbox source?
23:16:25linuxstbSpec: A window will probably need to wait for viewports to arrive.
23:16:43markunSpec: familiar with some parts
23:17:16linuxstbSpec: Basically windows...
23:17:29Specread spec now
23:18:12markunbut I don't think not having viewports is an obstacle for having such a quick jump function
23:19:03Specwell, you'd have to bring up the data for all songs starting with "A" in a "window" to the right of your a-z list
23:19:36Specbut it seems like viewports is for the WPS only?
23:19:48markunSpec: my list would/will be vertical
23:19:57 Quit Guest52768 ("lini has no reason")
23:20:00dionoealinuxstb_: how do you get the pitch / line length for a given plane in the mpeg2_info_t struct ?
23:20:02linuxstbSpec: No, they'll be implemented at the lcd driver level, so available throughout Rockbox.
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23:20:24Specthey should just implement curses
23:20:37markunSpec: which 'they'?
23:20:46markunfuck you :)
23:20:53markunpardon my french
23:20:59Specmarkun: it's ok, i don't speak french
23:21:05markunI'm still learning
23:21:19markunbut I have to leave again in 3 weeks..
23:21:24linuxstbdionoea: You mean the width?
23:21:40markunSpec: shall I explain you my 'quick jump' idea?
23:21:41dionoeawell the buffer width and displayed buffer width (in cas they're not equal)
23:21:43Specis there a place i can write a spec/proposal for rockbox?
23:21:48Specmarkun: yes, with pretty pictures if possible
23:21:59markunSpec: I'll just do it in text:
23:22:15markunfirst you calculate the number of line in the screen with the current font
23:22:25dionoealinuxstb: so i know how much bytes i have to skip to go to the next line
23:22:27linuxstbdionoea: See the vo_setup() function in video_out_rockbox.c
23:22:44dionoeaok, thanks
23:22:55markunthan you devide the list into a number of groups euqal to the number of lines
23:22:55 Quit webguest77 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
23:23:00linuxstbThat's passed the info->sequence structure.
23:23:26markunthen for each line you display the first few unique letters of the first and last item
23:23:29dionoeaah, 1 page up :)
23:23:37dionoeaok, sequence was what i was looking for
23:23:43markunlike this: [Amo .. Bea]
23:23:45dionoeawidth and height are for Y ?
23:23:54markun[Bec .. Cae]
23:24:16linuxstbdionoea: Yes, and the other two planes are half the width and height.
23:24:25dionoeai expected that :)
23:24:36 Quit lids (Remote closed the connection)
23:24:38Specmarkun: is that all the lines currently on the screen, or in the whole list?
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23:24:41markunif you click on one of the items it will just to the first entry in that group
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23:24:58 Part TrueJournals
23:25:00markunSpec: what do you mean?
23:25:13Specmarkun: so you want to on-the-fly group entries into categories, so it'd be like [a - c], [c - e]?
23:25:41Speci'd rather have two windows :p
23:25:41markunbut would work also for people with russian and greek files for example
23:25:49markun2 windows of what?
23:26:35markunSpec: just program your thing if you think it's better
23:27:00Spechah =p
23:27:25dionoeaok, so it's rendering a doted white/black line without affecting the framerate too much. I'll try with text now
23:28:03Specmarkun: my idea is like this:
23:28:17dionoeabtw, how many fps should i expect with the 16:9 elephant dreams sample on the ipod video ?
23:28:34dionoea(i get ~16 fps with no skipping and limiting, ~10 fps with skipping enabled)
23:28:39Specmarkun: you should definitely make your idea, the more ways to access the database/file information, the better.
23:28:51linuxstbdionoea: Sounds about right.
23:29:01markunSpec: I don't agree
23:29:11markunwe have to think about file size
23:29:17dionoeaok. (i'm unsure if my cop's used or not ... but i don't really care atm)
23:29:31Specfile size?
23:29:46linuxstbdionoea: If the COP wasn't being used, you wouldn't get 16fps
23:29:52markunwell, adding more and more things which do more or less the same is just a waste of bytes imo
23:30:12Specmarkun: well, i wasn't thinking of including them in main rockbox
23:30:18Specbut a patch to allow me to search my way would be uber nifty
23:30:19markunwhy not?
23:30:31linuxstbA patch like that would soon go out of sync
23:30:36Specmarkun: not everyone will like either of our ideas
23:30:45markunThey will have to :)
23:31:11Specso you don't think it'll be easily doable until viewports?
23:31:23Speclinuxstb: for my idea, not markun's
23:31:27Spec'cause markun's is doable right now :p
23:31:40markunSpec: what's the advantage of your idea?
23:31:41Bagderboth are doable right now
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23:32:07Specmarkun: so you can scroll down letter of alphabet by letter of alphabet, and see the songs on the right side
23:32:20Specit's more aesthetically pleasing
23:32:30linuxstbmarkun: Your idea is to be able to collapse any long list and expand it based on the group headings?
23:32:32SpecBagder: how would you have a list beside a list like that?
23:32:41markunlinuxstb: yes
23:32:55BagderSpec: ? I would make two lists
23:33:06Bagderwhy would that be hard?
23:33:40linuxstbScrolling lines? Or can they be done with a left margin already?
23:33:48SpecBagder: i haven't seen a rockbox menu that has "windows" like that
23:33:50Bagderah scrolling will be hard yes
23:33:55markunlinuxstb: what do you think of it? LinusN liked it.
23:34:37webguest77Can anyone explain the following... I have a track \Eiffel 65\zzMisc\Eiffel 65 - Blue.mp3 which is tagged with Eiffel 65 as the artist, no album and the title is 'Blue (Da Ba Dee)' in the database, if I go through Artist, <All tracks> it shows Blue (Da Ba Dee) but if I go through <untagged> it shows '65. Blue (Da Ba Dee) - 03:29'
23:34:41linuxstbmarkun: I don't have any long lists...
23:35:01markunlinuxstb: use your imagination then :)
23:35:24Speclinuxstb/bagder: is there a place i can create a featurerequest/spec for "the future" when it'll be possible to implement the idea?
23:35:41webguest77(and the Genre database seems to have a lot of 0-9a-z single character entries that I can't fathom)
23:35:51markunwebguest77: I can only tell you that you shouldn't be listening to that music anyway :)
23:35:58BagderSpec: I'm quite sure this idea already is filed (at least once)
23:36:08Spechmm, are there any patches associated with it? :p
23:36:13Bagderin the feature request tracker
23:36:24webguest77markun: yeah, it's not my normal listening - has some comedy value
23:36:31BagderSpec: not that I know of
23:36:39Specwhere's the feature request tracker?
23:37:09Specnever mind
23:37:11*Spec is blind.
23:37:35 Quit kubiixaka ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.")
23:39:01dionoeayay! It's rendering "Hello!" in the Y buffer (and i'm lost about 0.5 fps)
23:39:08dionoeaor maybe less
23:40:10dionoealinuxstb: if i need some text buffer (like for subs rendering), do i have to allocate it statically somewhere in mpegplayer.c or do you have some malloc emulation ?
23:40:26dionoeawell, not subs rendering, but storing the subs before they're rendered
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23:42:11webguest92is there a way to put rockbox in sleep mode like apple firmware
23:42:18webguest92is there a way to put rockbox in sleep mode like apple firmware
23:42:23linuxstbdionoea: Look at the start of the plugin_start() function in mpegplayer.c - it grabs the audio buffer and then allocates bits of memory for different things. 2MB is given to libmpeg2 for it to malloc() from, the rest is assigned statically. I think it would be best if you allocated a subtitle buffer from that memory pool when mpegplayer is started.
23:42:54webguest92will there be
23:43:19linuxstbMaybe, but no-one has expressed an interest in implementing it.
23:43:56 Quit webguest92 (Client Quit)
23:45:22dionoealinuxstb: ok. (I'll go for simple srt subs)
23:45:55dionoeastart time / stop time / text should be more than enough for subs support
23:46:33 Quit jmsbwtr__ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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23:51:00 Quit linuxstb_ ("CGI:IRC")
23:54:02 Quit ender` (" If you assign N persons to write a compiler you'll get a N-1 pass compiler.")
23:54:40BHSPitMonkeyman, it sure takes a while to scroll from top-to-bottom in the Balance setting
23:55:04*roolku sighs
23:55:21roolkufirst victim of the gigabeat firmware flash
23:55:28 Quit lini ("lini has no reason")
23:55:37markunroolku: bricked?
23:55:39BHSPitMonkeybricked? or...
23:56:35roolkunot me -
23:56:55roolkuseems recoverable though ... I don't quite understand what he has done
23:57:32 Quit lids (Remote closed the connection)
23:58:22sslasheslinuxstb: do we have any information about how the device moves into sleep mode?
23:58:53 Quit jmsbwtr__ ("Ex-Chat")

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