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#rockbox log for 2007-04-20

00:00:07Saureuspixelma: I have an Iaudio X5.. it only gives me like 45 minutes of MP3 playback before it goes kaput
00:00:22jhMikeSmirak: the obvious is a powerful reasoning tool :)
00:00:45linuxstb_mirak: I haven't looked at your patch but I'm assuming the issue is that your patch isn't suitable for committing as it is, so it needs someone to work on it to clean it up... Which is why it hasn't been committed yet.
00:00:47*amiconn_ tries to find out what the proper 16:9 version for the mini would be
00:00:49LloreanSaureus: If your battery life is that bad, you need a new battery.
00:00:58 Quit amiconn (Nick collision from services.)
00:00:58 Nick amiconn_ is now known as amiconn (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn)
00:01:09SaureusLlorean: where do I find them?
00:01:17 Quit PaulJam (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
00:01:22amiconn80x144 I'd think
00:01:36 Quit ender` (" You don't have to think too hard when you talk to teachers. -- J. D. Salinger")
00:02:29LloreanSaureus: Dunno, honestly
00:02:53mirakjhMikeS linuxstb amiconn well it's like nobody looked at the code, beside the guy that tried to separate it in one pure asm file
00:02:55SaureusThanks, I'll call around. I hope they aren't too expensive.
00:03:03 Part hcs
00:03:13mirakI didn't new how to do it personnaly
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00:06:15 Quit JazzBone ("Verlassend")
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00:10:49linuxstb_jhMikeS: I'm not sure what you mean by "similar to how it's done for any mpeg audio" - VBR mp3 files are helped with VBR headers, which are not in program streams.
00:10:59jhMikeSdionoea: I guess until there's direct blit support for overlays, the YUV buffer is the only place for it
00:12:02mirakas far I understand you want me to tell what must be done
00:12:07jhMikeSlinuxstb_: I don't really know right now for sure...something must be workable though...hrm
00:12:15mirakor more do it in fact lol
00:12:18 Quit Saureus ()
00:13:29amiconnjhMikeS: What would be the advantage of demuxing on read?
00:15:02jhMikeS1) streams are more independent 2) we don't buffer data we don't care about 3) watermarks can be optimal for each stream
00:15:27amiconn1) is obvious, but I don't see what advantage it has
00:15:44amiconnYou have to demux at some point between read and output
00:15:55amiconnI don't understand 2)
00:16:17jhMikeSthat only takes a tiny buffer though since no packet can be larger than 64K+misc
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00:16:49amiconnAnd for the watermarks... you need to rebuffer as soon as less than N seconds are left in the buffer, and that should be equal for audio and video afaiu (+/- a some milliseconds)
00:17:14jhMikeSright, and we'll need to track the combined bitrate for that on the fly
00:17:24 Quit midkay ("Leaving")
00:17:47 Quit jgarvey ("Leaving")
00:18:00amiconn?
00:18:10amiconnWhy not just take the maximum if its vbr?
00:18:29amiconnThat's what the hwcodec playback engine does for vbr mp3
00:18:30jhMikeScan do that
00:19:00amiconnIt calculates the watermark based on bitrate, and for vbr it just calculates based on 320kbps
00:19:02jhMikeSWell, maximum for a mpa is 448kbps
00:19:22amiconnI'd say we can safely ignore mp1
00:19:37EbErTlotsa things must have changed in rockbox, because now i get data errors when trying to play anything
00:19:57EbErTi index from mp3's handled by itunes
00:20:17linuxstb_EbErT: Sounds like you need to install the latest bootloader.
00:20:23jhMikeSthough if we just base bps on the overall read rate then audio and video should look alike pre-demux
00:20:26*amiconn wondered why .mpeg wasn't supported on his mini g2, until he realised that he still had mpa.patch applied :\
00:20:41EbErTah, maybe so! didn't know that changed
00:20:58EbErTdo i just install it on top of the old one, no formatting?
00:21:19linuxstb_Yes, just follow the install instructions in the manual - basically just download and run ipodpatcher.
00:21:37EbErTcool, wont lose anything, thx
00:22:37amiconnhmmmm
00:22:40linuxstb_amiconn: Thinking about it, there might be problems on the greyscale ipods due to the cache.
00:22:55amiconnVideo looks smooth on mini g2, but audio stutters
00:24:02linuxstb_That's odd.
00:24:12 Quit NET||abuse (Remote closed the connection)
00:24:35amiconnIt sounds like libmad can't keep up, so the sound is interrupted periodically
00:24:50amiconn...several times per second
00:25:42amiconnBut audio and video stay in sync
00:27:23 Quit oKtosiTe (Remote closed the connection)
00:27:27linuxstb_The greyscale lib uses a timer to update the LCD?
00:27:32*amiconn doesn't think it's especially odd
00:27:34amiconnyes
00:27:59linuxstb_So that's probably on the main CPU...
00:28:39amiconnThe grayscale lib uses a timer interrupt to shove data to the lcd, and with the slowish pp lcd controller, the isr runs for a significant amount of time
00:28:50 Join NET||abuse [0] (n=lukeab@87.198.27.172)
00:29:51amiconnOn H1x0 and M5 this is no problem at all, we can push ~850fps to the lcd and only need 70
00:29:54linuxstb_OK, that explains it. Normally on PP targets, the main CPU is only decoding audio, which is why I thought it odd that it stuttered.
00:30:07amiconnOn mini 2g we can only push 155fps to the lcd and need 88
00:30:29NET||abusehavin great trouble getting this ipod mini to register on my machine in disk mode,, i reset the ipod, then get it into disk mode, it has a big tick and says "OK to disconnect" then i plug in , dmesg shows this line "usb 1-5: new high speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 3"
00:30:31amiconnSo more than half of the (main) cpu time is spent in the isr
00:30:39NET||abusehow can i get this thing to connect up right?? :(
00:31:07amiconnThat's even worse than on archos, btw (where it's almost exactly 50% for fullscreen)
00:31:11NET||abuseit's just not going any further than that on the dmesg log
00:32:36amiconnBut in spite of all this, the grayscale lib is significantly faster on pp than it is on coldfire, due to all the bit shifting/shuffling when converting gray->planar
00:32:59linuxstb_NET||abuse: Have you tried rebooting your PC? People have reported (including me, although not recently) the Linux USB stack crashing and requiring a reboot.
00:33:05amiconnarm simply loves to shift...
00:33:35*dionoea updates the patch and goes to bed.
00:33:37dionoeagood night
00:34:07NET||abuselinuxstb, yep, just rebooted and was trying again when i asked the question, so was just after a reboot
00:35:38linuxstb_amiconn: So does it look like it's playing the full 24fps?
00:36:16amiconnI can't tell for sure. fps display doesn't work, and the grayscale lib gets grainy when changing content fast, due to the way it works
00:36:38amiconnA precalculated stream of b&w frames works way better in that case (i.e. rvf)
00:37:03NET||abuselinuxstb, just got it to register in rythmbox on my laptop, also on edgy
00:37:32amiconnBut it looks smooth, unlike on coldfire
00:37:49linuxstb_Although that might be due to jhMikeS's other improvements.
00:37:52amiconnlinuxstb: Care to prepare a 16:9 version?
00:38:00linuxstb_Unless you've tested it recently on Coldfire...
00:38:11amiconna few days ago...
00:38:37linuxstb_amiconn: Sure. I'll set it encoding now and upload it in the morning. Sleep is calling me.
00:38:41 Quit GodEater (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:38:45NET||abuseyay,, ok, now i can go through with this installation :)
00:40:42 Quit midgey ()
00:42:14 Part EbErT
00:43:14NET||abuseho hum, what version of ipod mini is this??? hmm
00:46:37linuxstb_Does it state the capacity on the back?
00:46:51jhMikeSlinuxstb_: Which encoder do you use again? I 'd like to try ED on Coldfire with B frames.
00:47:08linuxstb_mpeg2enc - part of the mjpegtools project.
00:47:29amiconnlinuxstb: Doesn't ipodpatcher autodetect the ipod type?
00:47:46jhMikeSwere the smaller ones made from the 320x240 source or was there another original?
00:48:12NET||abuselinuxstb, yeh, it's the 4GB version
00:48:19NET||abuselinuxstb, so is that Gen1?
00:48:26linuxstb_amiconn: Yes. it does...
00:48:38linuxstb_NET||abuse: Just run ipodpatcher, and it will tell you.
00:48:55NET||abuseright, ok.
00:49:09linuxstb_jhMikeS: All the encodings were from the 1920x1080 HD version.
00:49:25amiconnwow
00:49:37*amiconn just has the dvd version
00:49:41linuxstb_Overkill, perhaps...
00:49:51*amiconn considers anything above that overkill
00:50:05 Part BjornW
00:50:09jhMikeSlinuxstb_: Where's that one?
00:50:35linuxstb_I just downloaded it from the ED website. I'm sure it was listed with all the other formts.
00:50:42jhMikeSah, ok
00:50:42linuxstb_^formats
00:52:06amiconnlinuxstb: My latest test obviously was on the 14th, because that's the build on my H300
00:53:17amiconnBah, mpegplayer just froze :(
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00:57:31amiconnIt's a bit better than last week on H300, but still not really usable (even widescreen)
01:00
01:00:14PaulJamcould it be a sign of a failing harddrive if chkdsk is often showing filesystem errors?
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01:08:29amiconnOn X5 widescreen is watchable
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01:13:27***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:15:27 Join NOCARRIER [0] (n=NOCARRIE@72-18-68-35.texlink.com)
01:15:40NET||abuseis it a good idea to take a dd from both partitions on your ipod before working on uploading rockbox? copying images of sda1 and sda2 ?
01:16:06NET||abusei'm working on just an old 4GB mini, so not a huge copy for my 160GB drive
01:21:42NOCARRIERI didn't see anything in the guidelines about this, so I'll ask: I'm currently looking to purchase a primary DAP and rockbox it. I'm looking at either the iAudio X5 or the Toshiba Gigabeat. Any reviews I can find are based on the OF, but I'm interested in how the units compare with RB. Does anyone here have experience with both units and has a minute or two to spare discussing them?
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01:24:47NOCARRIERI find the benchmarks for the Mpegplayer plugin quite interesting, and they are what first made me consider the Gigabeat. I would like video, but audio quality and battery life are my main concerns.
01:25:44NET||abuseyawn.... 36GB copied from sda2..... zzzzz
01:25:59moosNOCARRIER: if you does care about video, Gigabeat is a better bet for you
01:26:49moosx5's screen is smaller (160*120)
01:26:50toffe82audio is good also on the gigabeat, don't know about the Iaudio
01:26:56moosgood too
01:27:06NET||abuseumm, i mean 3.8GB copied :)
01:27:25*moos cheers FM and recording and USB OTG on his iaudio
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01:28:02NOCARRIERI keep hearing people say the X5 has the best audio, but I can't find any info (even subjective data) on how big the difference is. This leads me to believe it's not a great difference.
01:28:39moosdifference doesn't sounds significative imho for a normal hear
01:28:42*NOCARRIER didn't think RB supported the OTG on the X5.
01:28:49moosboth will sounds good enough for you
01:28:55moosnot yet
01:29:17moosno usb OTG at all on Rockbox yet
01:30:15NOCARRIERMakes sense. OTG is a PITA to work with when you have all the tech docs, and it's not exactly a I-need-it-every-day feature. :-)
01:30:26mooshehe :)
01:31:00 Quit Thundercloud (Remote closed the connection)
01:31:16moosX5 is also easier to put on the pocket (it is smaller than gigabeat)
01:31:43moosbad point for me on iaudios, that the dependency to the subpack for usb or charge
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01:32:27NOCARRIERHmmm...how does it compare (size-wise) to the iPod (pick a gen)?
01:32:50 Part toffe82
01:32:57NOCARRIERI've read the numbers, but they never quite give you the same impression that holding something does :)
01:35:12*moos never use ipods ;)
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01:36:58*NOCARRIER had to use his brother-in-law's. He didn't keep the id3 tags updated for all the songs, so using that thing hurt. A lot.
01:37:56*moos never used either itunes :p
01:38:47NOCARRIEROne of the things I love about RB is the fact that if I don't like the interface, I can just make a new WPS :)
01:39:50mooscosmetic and eyes candy isn't the best point of Rockbox, by far
01:39:51 Quit dandin1 ()
01:40:07moosbut lot of really usuful feature for a DAP
01:40:20moosfeature*s* even
01:40:33NOCARRIERIf the audio works, and I can play the music I want, I don't really care what the screen looks like.
01:41:00NOCARRIEREye candy (especially customizable eye candy) never hurts though ;-)
01:41:03moosindeed, that's rockbox's spirit
01:41:30mooseyes candy on "background"
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01:46:48NOCARRIEROne last query about the two before I leave you alone: How is the battery life on the units under RB? The benchmarks show 14-19 hours, but I doubt that's indicative of real life usage (backlight, file browsing, etc).
01:47:42moosif you want the best runtime, go for an M5
01:47:51moosbut greyscale target
01:48:27NOCARRIERM5 or X5?
01:48:37moosM5
01:48:44moosthe greyscale version
01:51:13moosgood point of gigabeat too, they are cheaper
01:51:30*NOCARRIER googles around for good prices on the M5 (the X5 (refurb) and Gigabeat F40 were both around the mark)
01:51:44NOCARRIER\$140 (stupid IRC client)
01:52:17NET||abuseweeeeeee,,, got it on the ipod,, thanks for that fun :) now i wuz gonna wipe all the ipod format directories off the drive.. is that ok to do?
01:52:30NET||abusewuz.. ug,, what's happening to me..
01:53:10NOCARRIERThanks for the help, moos!
01:53:19moosno problems
01:55:01 Quit NOCARRIER ("Whee!")
01:56:46pixelmamoos: the M5 doesn't have a radio or USBotg but then it doesn't need the subpack for charging or USB transfers nut can use it if you want to have line-in recording
01:56:51pixelmafor example
01:56:58moosgood point
01:57:11 Nick Spec is now known as x-spec-t (n=nwheeler@ubuntu/member/spec)
01:59:01moostime to say moo :)
01:59:09moosgood night europeans
01:59:19 Quit moos ("Glory to Rockbox")
02:00
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03:12:38hachido the switches in these hardware, when you tell them to assign a port to mutiple vlan, does it do the tagging in conformance with 802.1Q?
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03:42:10scubacolesanyone know the key combination for a screendump on a gigabeat?
03:45:43scubacolesOK found it on the Wiki... for anyone out there wondering.. enable screendump in the System->Debug menu then plug in USB.
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04:14:46tom56Hi guys - I can't get tagnavi to work, can someone help?
04:16:02tom56I've tried putting my tagnavi_custom.cfg in the .rockbox folder but it doesn't make any difference to how the menu looks
04:16:44tom56No one wants to help?
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05:34:41hachioh, ooops... my earlier question was about a layer 3 switch, not an mp3 player XD
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08:30:55BRi7XtraHello. My 5.5G 30GB iPod Video is apparently trying to boot to original firmware. However, when my original firmware boots, for some reason it crashes immediately and reboots the iPod. Does any one have any idea what I can do to stop this?
08:33:38GodEaterrestore it using iTunes would be favourite
08:34:51BRi7Xtraokay, thank you
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08:58:05caduyo! back again , question under translating : do i really have to translate the 'voice' section ? :) (portuguese-brazil) will it ever be implemented ?
08:58:38B4gdercadu: if you want to be able to generate a voice for your language
08:59:02B4gderbut it can always be done/improved later
08:59:22caducoz right now there are no pt-br voices, and i'm translating the whole bulk myself :)
09:00
09:00:13B4gderbut there are no voices because A) there's no translation and B) nobody did any yet
09:01:31amiconnIirc there are pt-br voices available for some tts engines, so if portuguese-brazil has the strings, one could make a voice file
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09:02:06amiconnWhether it is allowed to be distributed is another question; commercial tts engines often have strange licensing conditions :(
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09:04:09caduamiconn: got it, so to speed the release of my language file i'll do the text part now, and later on i'll release a version with the voice tags also (right now everything: voice and text are at 31% done)
09:04:53cadubtw can i leave some "# FIXME' at the file so i can restart later on at points i think i can improve and to signal where i left the voice translation at
09:05:01amiconnSounds like a plan...
09:05:30caduthis will like, speed up the translation process twofold :)
09:05:46*cadu 's fingers wink :)
09:08:05davinamorning all
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09:16:12cropamiconn: here?
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09:19:05croprockbox.iriver is now in /.rockbox, right?
09:19:12peturyes
09:19:35cropamiconn: why did you use the two dimensional array in the sim?
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09:20:53*petur hands amiconn a better internet connection
09:21:03croppetur: is IriverFlashing in the wiki correct then? Quote: "Navigate to rockbox.iriver, which is located in the root directory of your iriver."
09:21:12amiconnpetur: Nah, that was me changing wlan<->ethernet
09:21:21amiconncrop: You mean in utf8_to_ucs2() ?
09:21:47cropamiconn: yes. Why not pass the target buffer as a parameter and use the correct parameter in the macro?
09:22:12amiconnSaving ifdefs, mainly
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09:23:11cropamiconn: how so? The two static buffers would only be defined for windows, and used in windows macros
09:23:18amiconnI wanted a method that gets away without extra ifdefs in the individual file access functions
09:23:27amiconnHmm, you mean global?
09:23:43crop... so you have the same amount of ifdef's
09:23:50amiconnThat would work... but what would be the real difference?
09:23:53cropamiconn: I mean static
09:24:15pondlifejhMikeS: around?
09:24:21cropamiconn: better readable code. I was confused at first about the two dim buffer.
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09:27:26cropAren't the images on the wiki page KeymapIriverHSeries copied from the iriver manual which is copyrighted?
09:27:36pondlifeAnyone else finding that the simulator's MPEGPlayer is running video at full speed, but audio at the correct speed. Makes no difference if I have l limit FPS enabled or not, as long as Skip Frames is disabled.
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09:28:42peturcrop: IriverFlashing page is fixed ;)
09:28:47pondlifei.e. full speed meaning flat out, much faster than the correct speed.
09:29:15peturpondlife: saw the same yesterday evening
09:29:26pondlifeOn sim?
09:29:41peturyes
09:29:55caduwhat Screen Scrolls Out of View really does? been not able to test it and the manual is a bit cryptic on this option
09:30:04peturonly slowed down when I enabled skip frames
09:30:55croppetur: I was about to do the same but you was faster!
09:31:26pondlifepetur: Yes, but enabling skip frames causes it to run too slowly, albeit in sync.
09:31:43peturcrop: :p if you find more errors, feel free to fix, got payed work (tm) to do now
09:32:04peturpondlife: exactly
09:33:01croppetur: ok. I just wanted to confirm that a correction is needed.
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09:36:42pondlifeHmm, I'm getting some garbage icons today too.
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09:37:22pondlifeLooks like the icon code isn't handling a misconfiguration properly.
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09:38:17bleechdo any of you guys have recommendations on what is the best portable music player to use with rockbox?
09:38:48peturbleech: depends on what you want to do with it
09:38:50pondlifeDepends on your requirements, but the Gigabeat is well regarded I hear.
09:39:02bleechi would like something with at least 10 GB
09:39:12bleechpreferably hardware accelerated flac and ogg
09:39:13pondlifeHow about recording or radio?
09:39:14bleechplaybak
09:39:20peturfm-radio? recording? ...
09:39:22bleechthose would be nice options
09:39:30bleechbut not necessary
09:39:43bleechoh
09:39:46bleechand battery life is important
09:39:56pondlifeWell the Gigabeat has the most powerful CPU.
09:40:00peturiaudio M5 ?
09:40:17B4gderprobably hard to find
09:40:56peturwell the targets rb runs best on are all hard to find these days ;)
09:41:08pondlifeIt has always been the way of Rockbox :)
09:41:16bleechheeh
09:41:29B4gderyeah, but I think gigabeats are easier to find than M5s
09:41:56bleechdo any of you use ipods?
09:42:05*pondlife doesn't
09:42:10B4gderI'll wait a few more years and then I'll sell my old recorder for a fortune! ;-P
09:42:23pondlifeB4gder: Haha, I sold mine recently for not much.
09:42:24peturB4gder: but if huge battery life is wanted... I remember M5 beating all records
09:42:37pondlifeWhat's the capacity of the M5?
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09:42:40pondlifei.e. GB
09:42:48cadui have a gigabeat and i'm satisfied with it, bleech
09:42:55cadubought a month ago (Gigabeat F20)
09:43:39caduplays everything i throw at it perfectly, with crossfading and whatever else turned on, and plays for like 14 hours unattended or 11/12h with my usual *jumpy* behavior :)
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09:43:49bleechwow
09:43:54B4gderah M5 has no radio?
09:43:54pondlifeIMHO, the PortalPlayer-based targets (including iPods) are best avoided
09:44:05cadubleech: but no radio (i don't use it anyway, don't care)
09:44:06bleechi have a huge collection of stuff in flac too
09:44:34cadupondlife: crap battery life (compared to ipod OF)
09:44:35bleechradio would be a nice addition, but i care much more about the other things i listed
09:45:11cadubleech: plays pacman on the go nicely :) with sound :P yay ! i'm so happy
09:45:15B4gderX5L is a pretty good run-time choice with radio
09:45:19*cadu throws rockboxed gigabeat in the air!
09:45:21caduhooray!
09:45:24bleechhehe
09:45:28pondlifeDon't drop it!
09:45:34bleechi have tried out an ipod on rockbox
09:45:39bleechit definitely takes a battery life hit
09:45:42cadumy baby , jump! fly away!
09:45:44cadu:)
09:45:47bleechon rockbox
09:45:56*pondlife hears a splintering gigabeat.
09:46:05bleechbut that is to be expected with apple locking everything up
09:46:10cadubleech: but about device shortage, yeah, it's really hard to find a gigabeat F/X these days
09:46:14pondlifeWell, it's more PortalPlayer.
09:46:42pondlifeThere are still many unknowns, Rockbox has done very well to get this far...
09:46:43cadui found mine on a used product store, being sold as new (probably store spare bought by these recycle shops)
09:46:50scubacolessince when?? gigabeat is still very cheap and easy to find here in Oz and the most capable rockbox target...doesn't have recording or radio but is very stable
09:47:31bleechwhy are the rockbox targets disappearing?
09:47:33pondlifeMy dream DAP would be an 80GB Gigabeat with recording.
09:47:44bleechmodels are being retired for new, yet unsupported hardware?
09:47:58pondlifebleech: Because it takes 6 months or so to get a port stable, in which time the manufacturers have moved on.
09:48:05caduscubacoles: well good for you guys, here in Japan , the land of bleeding edge, anything more than 1 year old vanishes from the shelves
09:48:14B4gderbleech: the industry is fast these days, they push out new things all the time
09:48:26B4gderand we can't keep up with the pace
09:48:33caduso for me it was quite of a miracle to find it :)
09:48:38bleechdo you guys have to reverse-engineer stuff?
09:48:43B4gder100%
09:48:44*pondlife wonders how long Archos had the Recorders as their cutting edge product.
09:48:50bleechi bet most of these guys never provide specs
09:49:06pondlifeNobody has so far, IIUC.
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09:49:11cadubtw i still can't make the 'screen scrolls out of view' setting work so i can translate the string accordingly :P
09:49:16B4gderbleech: some of them use chips and hardware for which we can fine data sheets, but far from all
09:49:24B4gders/fine/find
09:49:27bleechthat is such garbage
09:49:31caduthe thing just doesn't scrolls out !
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09:50:20bleechbut good job on the hard work
09:50:27B4gderpondlife: I don't think even the Recorder was top of the line for very long, the multimedia stuff came rather soon afterwards
09:50:28bleechi'll find something to use with it
09:50:41B4gderand the v2 and fm etc
09:51:42cadubleech: you won't be disappointed, i knew/read about rockbox something like 2 years ago, and since then i dreamed in someday buy something just to rockbox it :)
09:52:13GodEaterLlorean: <ping>
09:52:19bleechhehe
09:52:20caduwhen i found the Gigabeat it was like 'OOH' ,i bought the shit, threw the Toshiba Disc out the window (really) and installed rockbox !
09:52:26bleechmy buddy put it on his ipod
09:52:27bleechand loves it
09:52:36GodEaterdid yuo hit anyone with the disc you threw out the window ? :)
09:52:36bleechall i had heard about at the time was ipodlinux
09:52:45bleechso i was interested
09:52:54caduGodEater: i don't know, i'm reckless so i threw it up so it could hit someone at random.
09:52:55bleechbut i want something other than the almighty ipod
09:53:12bleechhow does the iaudio x5 perform?
09:53:16bleechlooks like those are readily available
09:53:29caduGodEater: but i live near a bunch of rice fields so chances are that i didn't hit anyone :(
09:53:46B4gderbleech: rockbox works fine on the x5, and if you find an x5L you'll get extremely fine run-times (but smaller disk)
09:53:51GodEatercadu: that's a bad thing ? :)
09:53:53caduseeing the disc spinning 15minutes after buying the player was like a freedom call ! ahhaah
09:54:06caduvoooom...gone :) rockbox, welcome :)
09:54:18pondlifecadu: Better luck hitting someone next time:)
09:54:24caduthanks !
09:54:32cadulmao.
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09:55:00cadubtw, question: why pacman emulator/rockboy can run with sound and doom can't ?
09:55:12pondlifeDo you mean with music playing?
09:55:13cadui mean, doom ran fine on 486dx2/66mhz
09:55:20caduyeah, concurrent music
09:55:29pondlifeMemory usage I think.
09:55:35pondlifei.e. Doom needs the audio buffer to run.
09:55:38B4gdercadu: because it is designed like that, it nicks the audio buffer
09:55:44caduhmmm. memory , haven't thought of that
09:55:58caduspeaking of -processor power- only it would be perfectly able, right ?
09:56:25pondlifeProbably.
09:56:33cadunice
09:56:45cadupeople thrill with that 'plasma' plugin running with music :) ehhehehe
09:56:48cadulooks so nice
09:57:20cadupeople with ipods get shy where i work, they start to say stuff like 'your player is so bulky, seems heavy, so BIG'
09:58:16cadujust the -crossfading- already does some 'wows' at the crowd, as they're not techy enought to be thrilled by playability of other stuff than mp3 and itunes-drm-laden-stuff :)
09:58:53peturcadu: most people here know about rockbox already ;)
09:59:12caduehhee, sorry :)
09:59:25bleechmost people won't understand the playability issue until their entire music collection is owned by others
09:59:25*linuxstb googles
09:59:50linuxstbOnly 9 out of the first 10 google hits are for our Rockbox...
10:00
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10:01:17pondlifeAny icon gurus around who could explain this: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/?getfile=13774
10:01:17pondlife?
10:02:19pondlifeI've logged a bug report for a potential buffer overflow (http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/7056), but would like to see if I've done something stoopid.
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10:02:30linuxstbStating the obvious, it's the external viewers.bmp icons which are causing problems.
10:02:46bleechi guess i have narrowed it down to the iaudio x5 or m5
10:02:51pondlifeYes, but there's no such garbage icon in that bmp.
10:03:01bleechgigabeats are too hard to find
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10:03:56pondlifeThis was working ok before, has the .icons file format changed in the past few days? We may also be missing a bounds check.
10:04:15linuxstbbleech: Which part of the world are you in?
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10:09:48bleechcalifornia
10:11:01markunbleech: you're too late I guess. 4000 gigabeats (F40) were sold last week in 1 day.
10:11:08linuxstbYou missed a bargain (Gigabeat F40 for $99) from officedepot.com last week, but they sold out very quickly. You should be able to buy them on ebay though.
10:11:20bleechdamn
10:11:25bleechthat cheap?
10:11:36scorcheoh wow...how did i miss that?
10:11:38bleechwhat are the specs on the f40?
10:11:39linuxstbI think $99 is around the price they normally sell for on ebay.
10:11:45pondlifehttp://www.officedepot.com/ddSKU.do?level=SK&id=734578&cm_mmc=TLShopping-_-PriceRunner-_-Electronics-_-Toshiba%2040GB%20Digital%20Audio%20Player%20%7C still says "In Stock"
10:12:03linuxstbbleech: 300MHz ARM CPU, 240x320 LCD, 40GB disk...
10:12:19pondlifehttp://www.officedepot.com/ddSKU.do?level=SK&id=734578 even
10:12:45linuxstbbleech: No radio or recording, but I think others have mentioned that.
10:12:46markunbleech: btw, if you are looking for Gigabeat specs, don't look at the wikipedia page
10:12:51markunit's full of errors
10:13:07markunI should probably get an account for the English wikipedia and correct them
10:13:26B4gderyou need an account for that?
10:13:26linuxstbbleech: And I think people are getting around 16 hours runtime on a full charge with Rockbox.
10:13:45bleechthats great
10:13:49B4gderI've edited the Rockbox wikipedia page numerous times without account
10:13:54markunB4gder: I would think so. I needed one when I was working on the Esperanto version.
10:14:03markunok, I'll try it then
10:14:17bleechdoes the filetype affect battery life significantly?
10:14:23bleechlike if i use mp3 vs. flac
10:14:38B4gderbleech: it affects how often the disk spins up etc, so it matters
10:14:46linuxstbbitrate is probably the biggest factor - the higher the bitrate, the more disk spinups....
10:15:06linuxstbBut that's slightly compensated because FLAC is less CPU-intensive to decode than mp3.
10:16:15bleechhow much worse would it be, as a rough estimate?
10:16:23bleech1/2 the battery life? 95%?
10:16:46linuxstbI would guess about 70-80% but that's just a complete guess...
10:17:08linuxstbSomeone needs to do some measurements - I may well do some...
10:18:37markunI don't know how to start to 'fix' this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigabeat#Gigabeat_S_vs._Gigabeat_X
10:18:47markunit's almost completely untrue
10:19:04pondlifeHmm, my sim seems very ill. :( It refuses to build a database - like the thread's not running.
10:19:24linuxstbmarkun: Replace "S" with "F" ?
10:20:01linuxstbAlthough are they similar from a functionality viewpoint?
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10:22:19*linuxstb wonders what this means in the description of the Gigabeat U - "the first DAP to include a 1-bit digital-analog converter, which reduces the distortion and speeds up the recording process"
10:22:43pondlifed-a or a-d?
10:22:54linuxstbThe page says d-a
10:25:49ZagorI get bogus bitrate display on mp3 files on h140, latest firmware. all are 96kbit, but wps shows 40, 448, 80 etc.
10:26:14Zagorconsistent, but wrong. the files are from a ripped shoutcast stream.
10:26:56linuxstbDo they have any odd headers?
10:27:34Zagordo we have a good header analysis tool other than hexl-mode in emacs? ;)
10:27:44markunlinuxstb: I deleted the whole section
10:28:03Zagorpossibly they're simply badly cut in the rip, so they begin with half frames
10:28:44Zagorno, they begin with id3 frames
10:28:53linuxstbZagor: I normally use "madplay" as a first test - that will tell me if there are any unusual bytes at the beginning of the file, or if it's "clean".
10:29:07GodEatermarkun: probably best to add a bit to the discussion page to say you've done it, and why.
10:31:31Zagormadplay says "error: frame 0: lost synchronization", so it appears the id3 tag is poorly formed somehow.
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10:33:06markunGodEater: I would like to change the complete layout of the page actually
10:33:37markunto have the specs for each player in a bullet list, instead of scattered around
10:35:17GodEatermarkun: well put that in the discussion page too - don't want you getting banned for "wiki vandalisation" ;)
10:36:16Llorean"Frankly, this article sucks. I've redone it. C'mon, try to at least do a little research first, guys"?
10:36:26GodEaterthat'd do :)
10:37:20GodEaterLlorean: I've made a patch to the manual around the RoLo feature for the Gigabeat as discussed yesterday
10:38:04LloreanGodEater: Cool, good to hear
10:38:23GodEaterbut I can't find a good way to do the change to the installation page which describes the rockbox bootloader as giving dual boot functionality
10:39:13GodEatershould I add a similar note there saying "Not currently working on the Gigabeat" ?
10:39:33LloreanSeems fair to me.
10:41:07markunGodEater: even the japanese version contains errors
10:42:23markunThey claim that the X uses 18 bit colour and the F only 15, but both use in fact 16 bits (RGB555i)
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10:50:03markunGodEater: also, it says that the F is the second generation, but I'm pretty sure the MEG50JS is the first one not part of the "G" series: http://journal.mycom.co.jp/news/2002/06/17/19a.jpg
10:50:21markunso that would make the F series 3rd gen
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10:55:03GodEaterLlorean: FS #7057 : if you care to review and possibly commit.
11:00
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11:53:29linuxstbamiconn: The 16:9 ED for your mini - http://www.davechapman.f2s.com/rockbox/144x80.zip
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12:05:10spiorfwith the last mpegplayer modifications on my ipod nano video runs much faster than it should
12:05:31spiorf(limit fps=on and skip frames=off)
12:06:38LloreanYou should never have skip frames off under normal playback conditions.
12:06:47LloreanBut this does sound like a bug
12:10:10LloreanThe skip frames option should only ever be disabled for when you're testing the maximum framerate.
12:11:59spiorfbut if the video can run faster, i should not need to drop frames
12:12:23spiorfinstead of dropping frame after a temporary slowdown, it can run faster and sync again with audio
12:13:52LloreanLook, I'm just telling you: You're not supposed to disable it for normal use.
12:14:07LloreanIt's not intended to be disabled for anything outside of testing.
12:14:13markunspiorf: what's the FPS you get?
12:14:18markunand what should it be?
12:14:33markun(just curious)
12:14:35Lloreanmarkun: I got 40 when it should be 25
12:14:46LloreanSkip Frames seems to be a requirement for framerate limiting now.
12:14:51markunah, you have the same problem?
12:14:53markunok
12:15:04LloreanYeah, I do have it, but really, Skip Frames is not supposed to be disabled.
12:15:15spiorfheh, right now i can't test: i tried an older version and got data abort at 0xsomething
12:15:32LloreanIf he wants to disable debug options, and they cause odd behaviour, it's really his problem, I think.
12:16:19LloreanI'm sure it'll either get fixed eventually, or the "Skip Frames" option will be removed altogether (or put somewhere where it's clearly a debug option)
12:16:42markunI think it's good that he reported it
12:17:12markunif settings don't do what they are supposed to do it's not just his problem
12:17:20LloreanIt's a debug option, not a real setting.
12:17:25spiorfi didn't know that it was intended to be on
12:17:41spiorfit was just a thing like "hey, look, i got a bug using this settings"
12:17:52markunspiorf: exactly
12:18:12Lloreanmarkun: I didn't say it was bad he reported it, I just tried to say that the fact that it isn't working isn't a big deal
12:18:36LloreanSkip Frames and Framerate limiting both have to be off for benchmarking, and they both have to be on for proper playback.
12:19:00LloreanThough it is odd that disabling Skip Frames breaks framerate limiting right now.
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12:20:29spiorfwith skip frames on i get 24.9, which is ok. with skip off i get 25.6
12:21:05dionoeamaybe your movie uses 25fps :)
12:21:12Lloreanspiorf: You have to test from the beginning of the file for it to be valid
12:21:16LloreanFPS is the average over the whole file so far.
12:21:23Lloreandionoea: No, it's definitely a valid problem
12:21:39dionoeaok :)
12:21:56LloreanIt's just that the "Skip Frames" option shouldn't really be there for users, kinda like the "Disk Power Down" option
12:22:17LloreanMy guess is that it just accidentally got broken, and nobody's had it off, but limiting on, at the same time, to notice.
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12:22:28LloreanSince there's no situation that you should really be doing that. :)
12:24:00spiorfLlorean, my mpg is 25fps, so 24.9 is good if intended as average
12:24:00spiorfI remember i took skip feame off because in the past it was actually skipping some frame
12:24:01spiorfeven if it can play the video faster than 25fps
12:24:01DBUGEnqueued KICK spiorf
12:24:01spiorfand i left it off until now
12:24:19Lloreanspiorf: Frame skip has improved a lot.
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12:25:00spiorfyeah, just noticed that
12:25:15LloreanIt shouldn't skip unless it really does need to.
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12:28:29gromit`8~kw
12:28:34gromit`oops sorry
12:31:18spiorfi also noticed another bug: the scrollwheel seems a bit lagged in some menus, while in other is perfect. but in the first ~10 seconds after power on, it's fluid everywhere.
12:31:38spiorffor example the main menu is lagged, and so settings
12:31:48spiorffile browser and database are ok instead
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12:32:25LloreanThis is the standard iPod poor performance.
12:32:31tom56I've created a tagnavi_custom.cfg but it doesn't seem to be doing anything
12:32:36tom56i.e. the menu stays the same
12:32:40tom56Any ideas?
12:32:51Lloreantom56: Use an official build, and verify it with that, first.
12:33:04tom56What's an official build?
12:33:05Lloreanmaxwen0's build is Unsupported.
12:33:13tom56OK
12:33:24LloreanOfficial builds are those provided by rockbox.org's "Current Build" page.
12:33:26LloreanUnpatched.
12:34:04tom56Out of interest - what could cause this to break? It's no use finding out it works in the regular build if I can't get it to work in the build I use
12:34:22LloreanIt could be any of a hundred things.
12:34:42tom56OK - what should I do if I find it works in the regular build?
12:34:42LloreanMaxwen0's build contains a lot of unofficial code.
12:35:01 Quit iNSOMNiAX (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
12:35:03LloreanYou should contact the provider of your custom build (maxwen0) and try to find out if he has any idea what change he's made to the official version that breaks it.
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12:35:45spiorfbtw, was't it tagnavi_custom.config instead of .cfg?
12:36:01tom56OK, thanks. Is it possible to boot the official build without removing maxwen0's so I don't have to install everything again
12:36:24tom56sporf - yeah you're right, but I think it is named correctly - I'll check that though
12:37:03tom56I've checked - the name is right
12:37:14linuxstbtom56: You can just backup your .rockbox folder and then restore it afterwards.
12:37:38tom56linuxstb: D'oh! Don't know why I didn't think of that - am a bit slow I guess :)
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12:41:47tom56Well the official build seems to get as far as the rockbox splash screen then stops there
12:43:02LloreanAre you using the "dual boot bootloader" or the official one?
12:43:29tom56The dual one
12:44:11amiconnpetur: It's the M5L that beats alll records to be precise
12:44:46tom56I don't want to use the official one because I don't want to lose the OF
12:44:50amiconnThese only exist as 20GB models (but you can put larger single platter hdds in of course)
12:45:26Lloreantom56: Then go to maxwen0 and try to have him figure out why your tagnavi isn't working. We really can't be responsible for the possibility that other people's code is causing your problems.
12:45:28LinusNtom56: out of curiosity, what feature of the OF is it that you can
12:45:34LinusN't live without?
12:45:36amiconnWithout backlight, the M5L gives >50 hours of playtime (measured with 192kbps mp3)
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12:46:10tom56The FM radio is much easier to use. And I only bought my x5 yesterday so I want to be able to take it back to the shop if it goes wrong.
12:46:14CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
12:46:14*B4gder made some first little efforts into the area of "speculative parallell builds" for the build system
12:46:43B4gderjust some extra logging/verbose info for now
12:46:53B4gderto research the possibilities on the upcoming commits
12:46:58LinusNtom56: could you explain how we could make the fm radio better in rockbox?
12:47:18B4gderwe can see how some of the fastest servers get to wait quite a lot lately
12:48:10tom56The scan didn't seem to pick up as many stations and using the Clix theme the text is in the top left corner which makes it unreadable (as the theme has some text on the backdrop at that point.
12:48:34B4gderin the most recent build storebror was done after 160 seconds, and the build took 333 ...
12:49:35LinusNtom56: ok, i see. the scan is being perfected, it's not yet included in SVN, and one of those days the fm screen will be themable as well
12:49:41tom56I've posted about the tagnavi problem in the iaudiophile forums which I know maxwen0 uses so hopefully he'll be able to help me
12:50:21tom56I expect the answer will probably be the same for my next problem but I'll ask anyway
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12:51:03markuntom56: again something that works fine with the official build but not on his?
12:51:05tom56Choosing Click to Insert and setting it to Queue seems to make no difference, i.e. the dynamic playlist is still erased rather than the track being queued
12:51:15Lloreanmarkun: He hasn't tested with the official build.
12:51:18tom56markun: I can't get the official build to work
12:51:28markunaha
12:51:31Lloreantom56: "Click to Insert" isn't a feature of the official build.
12:51:47Lloreanmarkun: He's using the dual boot bootloader, and the official build is apparently freezing for him while booting.
12:51:51LinusNtom56: can't get it to work?
12:51:59LinusNoh
12:52:01tom56I thought as much - I was just hoping you might have come across the problem before and know a solution
12:52:17tom56It's fair enough if you can't help
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12:57:25tom56Ok - slightly closer with the tagnavi problem
12:57:59tom56Back using maxwen0's build - if I forget to delete the include line then it gets stuck in a looop
12:58:07tom56This at least proves that the file is being read
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13:00
13:01:34*B4gder has a please-confused-users commit coming right up
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13:02:05markunLinusN: are you familiar with the playlist code?
13:02:27LinusNnot really, what do you want to know?
13:03:12*B4gder was familiar with it... then came Hardeep and all that fancy dynamic stuff ;-)
13:03:19LinusNsame here :-)
13:04:07*Llorean wants to know how B4gder is going to please confused users.
13:04:27B4gderwell, just one particular kind
13:04:34B4gderthe ones with spaces in their paths
13:04:55LloreanAh
13:05:01LloreanThat'll be nice though
13:05:24B4gderand the "fix" is just that configure refuses to run
13:05:34linuxstbmv rockbox-devel "My rockbox development folder"
13:05:34B4gderwith a note telling why
13:05:57linuxstbmv "My rockbox development folder" rockbox-devel
13:07:32*B4gder hits forehead
13:07:41peturheh
13:07:51tom56Fixed the tagnavi problem! Seems the config was just really shoddy - I downloaded a different one and it works, Now I need to change it to do what I want. Thanks for all the help! :)
13:08:03LinusNtom56: have fun!
13:08:09 Quit tom56 ("Leaving.")
13:08:23*B4gder committed that change in a somewhat funny way so it didn't trigger any build
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13:14:02B4gderdoes the sound detection for the simulator really make any sense with sdl?
13:14:13B4gderwithin configure I mean
13:14:43B4gder"We have a header file so we can build the sound code"
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13:17:47linuxstbB4gder: No, it doesn't seem to make sense. Are you going to remove X11/win32 sim support?
13:18:10B4gderyes
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13:29:48B4gdernow, let's see how much this broke ;-)
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13:35:03B4gderoops
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13:35:40preglowhahaha
13:35:46preglowconfigure doesn't work in a dir that contains spaces?
13:35:49preglowhow 1980 is that
13:36:00B4gderhehe
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13:38:44voltagexhi, anyone active? I killed my H340 and need some help.
13:39:04linuxstbHelp fixing your h340 or help choosing a new DAP?
13:39:22voltagexfixing if possible
13:39:28voltagexI don't have much money at the moment
13:39:36voltagexit's now stuck in USB mode
13:39:46voltagexeven after several restarts/hard resets
13:39:51linuxstbWhat did you do that makes you think you killed it?
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13:40:14voltagexplugged it into the wrong charger
13:40:39voltagexsorry, should have said that first :P
13:40:46preglowthe congrats, there's a big chance it IS killed
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13:41:54voltagexpreglow: I'm annoyed, the charger was lower voltage, lower amperage and the same polarity as the h300 charger
13:42:29voltagexpreglow: drive still mounts fine, disk is fine
13:42:40peturusb works, you mean
13:43:07voltagexpetur: yes, just can't get into the actual player!
13:43:14linuxstbvoltagex: So what happens when you turn it on?
13:43:33voltagexlinuxstb: in rockbox Bootloader USB mode, in OF USB Connected
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13:43:55linuxstbThat's without a USB cable attached?
13:44:01voltagexlinuxstb: yes :S
13:45:08linuxstbDoes the rockbox bootloader display any other messages?
13:45:28voltagexlinuxstb: like the checksum?
13:45:35linuxstbAnything...
13:45:38voltagexlinuxstb: nothing that I haven't seen before
13:45:58LinusNwell, of the OF also thinks the USB is connected, it surely is electrical
13:46:02voltagexas in, everything that a normal H300 with Rockbox displays
13:46:10voltagexLinusN: worth repairing?
13:46:50LinusNnot sure how though
13:46:59PaulJamvoltagex: if you search on MR there are many threads decribing the same problem. you could try if this helps: http://www.misticriver.net/showthread.php?t=11314
13:47:07voltagexI'd love to know *what* I fried
13:47:18voltagexfuse, capacitor, resistor
13:48:19preglowyou might have fried the cpu itself
13:48:30voltagexpreglow: but it still boots?
13:48:40preglowthen there's still hope, at least
13:48:48preglowpeople have fixed irivers where the cpu survived
13:48:48voltagexPaulJam: thanks, in the picture they're shorting the outside pins?
13:51:55*linuxstb wonders if it's the same issue some ipod owners have reported - charging being reported in the Apple firmware even with no cable attached, and Rockbox incorrectly detecting a USB connection.
13:53:13dionoeavoltagex: can't you comment out he usb detection code in rockbox ? (and then still use it)
13:53:19dionoea*the
13:53:38voltagexdionoea: maybe, I'll try tomorrow, I need sleep
13:57:19*petur wonders what http://www.misticriver.net/showpost.php?p=285982&postcount=27 could mean
13:57:48PaulJamdionoea: but the bootloader would still detect an usb connection, unnless he changes the bootloader too, adn this requires to be able to boot the of
13:58:27LinusNit surely introduces a brick-risk
13:59:55voltagexoh well, it's pretty much dead now
14:00
14:00:05dionoeaOh, i though that he was able to boot the OF
14:00:10voltagexanyway, back tomorrow
14:00:16voltagexdionoea: nope, I killed it well
14:00:25voltagexg'night
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14:00:27voltagexthanks all
14:00:28dionoeaarf :)
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14:07:01pondlifeHmm, my database not building on the sim was due to dircache blocking. Anyone here fancy looking at firmware/common/dircache.c? I reckon that dircache_is_initializing() should be &&-ing, not ||-ing...
14:07:35 Quit inversions ()
14:12:23B4gderok, the buildmaster logs now contain a little list dump every now and then showing what pending builds there are...
14:12:46B4gderbeing potential ones to get built by one of the servers that are already done
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14:20:07B4gderthe size differences with my two commits are weird
14:20:19B4gdersince they were sim changes
14:24:27pondlifeDifferent build servere producing different sized output?
14:24:31pondlifeservers, even
14:24:39LloreanCould it be the 64-bit ones?
14:25:06linuxstbThe "-20" build was on amiconn's server, and the other two on builder.fnarfbargle.com So yes, maybe a 64-bit issue.
14:25:18Lloreanfnarfbargle.com?
14:25:26pondlifeAnyone got an idea about that dircache problem I mentioned?
14:25:31linuxstbLlorean: That's what it says...
14:25:41linuxstbpondlife: My idea would be to ask Slasheri...
14:25:56pondlifeAh, I thought he was Mr Tagcache.
14:25:59pondlifeNot Mr Dircache
14:26:03LloreanHe's kinda both.
14:26:05B4gderhe's cacheri
14:26:10linuxstbNo, he's tagcache, dircache and flash...
14:26:10pondlifeSlasheri: around?
14:26:24B4gderflashcache!
14:26:31*B4gder hides
14:26:32linuxstbSounds like a Marx Brothers law firm...
14:26:32LloreanJust what we need!
14:27:41pondlifeWell, I'll leave my unpatched sim over lunch to see if it ever finishes blocking... but I doubt it. BBL
14:29:49linuxstbBagder: Could we (you?) calculate the real binary size? I was thinking of a file in the rockbox.zip (something like .rockbox/rockbox.info) which could contain things like target, version number, (maybe useful for rbutil), build server, binary size. build dates....
14:30:11LloreanThat would probably be useful for a variety of reasons.
14:31:17B4gderyes, I would love that
14:31:44*petur thinks of a cookie in the binary that can be patched after the build
14:32:21B4gderI'll see if I can put together a first attempt right now
14:32:26Lloreanpetur: For?
14:32:47peturto put that info in the binary and not in an extra file?
14:32:52LloreanAh
14:33:00LloreanI like the idea as a file
14:33:11LloreanIt's really useful for RBUtil
14:33:13peturI won't argue with you ;)
14:33:34LloreanRBUtil can look for a specific one file, rather than different binary names in different places.
14:33:47linuxstbB4gder: gcc and binutils versions could also be useful...
14:33:48LloreanThen it knows what sort of player is attached, and whether it's an up to date version or not.
14:34:10B4gderlinuxstb: yeps, I'll set up the infrastructure and basic things and then we can easily expand
14:34:14LloreanA cookie in the binary makes it one less file, but it also means rbutile has to look for rockbox.ipod, rockbox.gigabeat, etc.
14:34:28*petur hopes that doesn't screw things when users start updating bin files only
14:34:36linuxstbA cookie in the binary would be nice as well....
14:34:49Lloreanpetur: Users updating bin files only makes me cry.
14:34:58peturhahaha
14:36:13linuxstbAnyone have a better idea for the filename than rockbox.info? buildinfo.txt ?
14:36:39Lloreanlinuxstb: I like rockbox.info, since it's not just build info (to me).
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14:38:08linuxstbI was just thinking that a .txt extension may make it easier when it comes to asking users what's contained in that file.
14:39:03LloreanAh
14:39:09LloreanThis is very true.
14:39:14GodEaterlinuxstb: good thinking
14:39:16Lloreanrbinfo.txt maybe?
14:40:46linuxstbOr rockboxinfo.txt
14:45:16B4gderTarget: e200
14:45:16B4gderTarget id: 23
14:45:16B4gderTarget define: -DSANSA_E200
14:45:16DBUGEnqueued KICK B4gder
14:45:16B4gderVersion: r13215M-070420
14:45:17B4gdergcc: arm-elf-gcc (GCC) 4.0.3
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14:47:54markunB4gder: are you "dast" ?
14:48:14preglowrockbox-info.txt
14:48:24linuxstbwe have a winner...
14:48:29preglow.info is definitely not good
14:48:37B4gdermarkun: hehe, yeah that was a little mistake of mine
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14:49:04markunsorry for not finishing my question about the playlist code btw :)
14:49:21markunI was distracted by lunch
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14:51:24linuxstbmarkun: Did anyone ever do power consumption measurements on the gigabeat when Rockbox was doing different things?
14:52:11markunappart from toffe's measurements which playing and while doing nothing: no
14:52:22markuns/which/while/
14:55:46B4gderok, I committed that first step
14:56:18 Part LinusN
14:56:45B4gderat least as a first step it should make the delta table better
14:57:04linuxstbNice. 27 minutes between feature request and commit...
14:57:32B4gder:-)
14:58:17linuxstbIs the size of rockbox.bin the important one for the Archos targets?
14:58:22Slasheripondlife: i will check that soon. || is correct for that
14:58:29B4gderlinuxstb: yes afair
14:58:46CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
14:58:46*B4gder checks...
14:59:14linuxstbWhat about rombox? Should we look at rombox.map ?
15:00
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15:00:46markunB4gder: time to look at add_track_to_playlist after this?
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15:00:56linuxstbA table with the various important sizes for the different targets, along with the current SVN size would be very nice...
15:00:58B4gdertime for coffee I'd say ;-)
15:06:05*linuxstb calculates recorder v1 is 6072 bytes too big for rombox
15:07:54linuxstbOr maybe more...
15:08:08LloreanI was thinking that seems pretty close.
15:08:25LloreanWouldn't the bootbox revision make that fit?
15:08:26B4gdergrr, since the archos builds fail they don't run mkinfo... :-/
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15:09:41linuxstbIt could be another 4004 bytes - i.e. 10076 bytes away...
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15:45:22preglowlinuxstb: langv2 cleanup won't fix that, heh
15:45:37preglowbut seriously, i think we should have some kind of size freeze soon
15:45:52preglowperhaps something for the devcon agenda?
15:46:00preglowi want this rombox thing out of the world
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15:56:20B4gderhm, make -j ruins the script
15:56:33B4gderit runs the info-gathering before the final binary is complete
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16:00
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16:08:15B4gderi need to fix that before I can rely on that file for the delta table
16:08:34B4gderI'll save that for later...
16:13:09 Part B4gder
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16:20:43amiconnlinuxstb: It's 6072+3284
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16:21:13elinenbe_let's talk rockbox for a minute?
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16:21:40elinenbe_after watching that TV thing... I think it is about time we improve on the default theme/font/etc. for rockbox for each target.
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16:21:52elinenbe_It
16:22:00Lloreanelinenbe_: I think fixing bugs is more important, over all.
16:22:35elinenbe_Llorean, all we need to do is package a decent agreeable theme with each version, and set the cfg file to it...
16:22:51markunrockboxed :)
16:22:58elinenbe_yeah −− that would be fine.
16:22:59Lloreanelinenbe_: It also needs to be compiled in.
16:23:14LloreanOr at least, Rockbox needs to work if it's not present.
16:23:37LloreanI also don't think Rockboxed is the best looking option, it's a little harsh and sparse.
16:23:37elinenbe_Llorean: leave the default compiled in, and in the downloadable packages, include the new theme... that's all I am saying
16:23:49Lloreanelinenbe_: Put together a patch.
16:23:49elinenbe_Llorean: argree with that.
16:23:54elinenbe_I think I will.
16:25:10LloreanI don't think anyone disagrees with "Rockbox could look prettier", but it might be nice to wait until say... Album Art and a few other theme features are done (viewports)
16:27:15 Quit jhulst_ (Remote closed the connection)
16:28:54aliaskI disagree with the whole "a wps is only acceptable if it has a version for every target" rule.
16:29:21LloreanSo you think Rockbox should look dramatically different on each target?
16:29:34aliaskBecause of the differences in screen sizes (and orientation) it's difficult to get a wps to look good on each.
16:29:39LloreanThere's nothing that prevents a WPS from being made for each target (barring Player) other than the designer not being willing to do it.
16:29:45Zagorelinenbe: what is "that TV thing"?
16:29:47LloreanYou can aim for similarity though.
16:30:10aliaskLlorean: I suppose so. Perhaps my objection was not really well thought out ;P
16:30:25GodEaterZagor: dl.tv did a program featuring rockbox
16:30:44GodEaters/programme/program ;)
16:30:54GodEatermuch too used to typing the latter form
16:30:58Lloreanaliask: I don't mind minor or even moderate differences (different fonts), but the information available on the WPS should at least be in a similar layout, with a similar background.
16:31:05LloreanLike iCatcher, they aren't all identical but they're very similar.
16:31:47LloreanBut I'm _really_ not a fan of Rockboxed, personally.
16:31:59GodEaterI like it's layout
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16:32:02GodEaterbut not it's colour scheme
16:32:05LloreanIf we're going to pick a theme that "shows off" Rockbox, it's just not very suitable.
16:32:09*markun is a fan
16:32:23markunbut he's also colour blind
16:32:24aliaskI like the rocker theme for sansa/5g, perhaps I should adapt it to a few more targets and see what happens.
16:32:25LloreanThe color scheme hurts my eyes, and it shows very little information for the space.
16:32:27GodEatermarkun: even of the lurid yellow ?
16:32:37markunyes, looks find to me
16:32:40GodEaterwow
16:32:55markunsame colours as a wasp, no?
16:33:03GodEaterLlorean: I don't think a default rockbox theme SHOULD overdo the info displayed
16:33:18GodEaterespecially if it's got to fit on the smaller screened targets and still look consistent
16:33:28ZagorI think Rockboxed is a good choice for the H140 anyway. that's the only place I've seen it :-)
16:33:33GodEaterI use Rockboxed on my H140
16:33:34LloreanGodEater: Underdoing is just as bad though
16:33:38GodEaterno nasty yellow though
16:33:56Zagorit's nice and clean and not too crowded
16:33:58GodEaterLlorean: you have to admit it's an improvement on the default though
16:33:58LloreanI think Rockboxed could do with an alternating subline with 3 pages showing next track Artist/Album/Title
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16:34:25aliaskPerhaps we should have a different standard theme according to the LCD. ie grayscale targets have one, colour have another
16:34:29LloreanAs well as a numeric volume display, unless someone feels like implementing my volume feature request.
16:34:44 Quit lids (Remote closed the connection)
16:34:51GodEaternumeric as in "in dB" ?
16:34:55LloreanGodEater: My main problem with Rockboxed though, is it is "Just text" still.
16:34:58AceNikguys i made changes to a wps originally built for gigabeat , now its for h10 so i contacted the author if i could upload the modified theme , but there hasn't bin a reply since 3weeks
16:34:59ZagorLlorean: actually I disagree. I think most people prefer the uncluttered display over the extra information
16:35:21LloreanGodEater: Numeric as in "Not a stupid picture that doesn't really work at lower volumes, nor show me when I'm at line level"
16:35:24Zagor"most people" is a terrible wording, but "many people" anyway
16:35:26aliaskAdapting a "nice looking" colour WPS to grayscale makes chances that are so sweeping you may as well have a different WPS altogether.
16:35:42LloreanZagor: I prefer mine fairly minimal, but a lot of our users choose Rockbox because it can be themed.
16:35:55GodEaterI think (apart from colour preference already stated) rockbox is an excellent cross target theme
16:35:59LloreanZagor: And consistently the most popular WPSes are the ridiculous ones, that's why so many people use unsupported builds: Prettier WPSes
16:36:03GodEater*rockboxed
16:36:21GodEaterLlorean: what are you basing that on?
16:36:26ZagorLlorean: yes, and those users will theme it. the default thus should be a nice wps for the part of the audience that might NOT theme it
16:36:30GodEaterdo you have figures for the number of downloads ?
16:36:42LloreanGodEater: Based on discussion rates primarily.
16:36:54LloreanMaybe people who like simple themes aren't as vocal about it
16:36:57GodEaterI submit that those discussion rates are BECAUSE those themes require patched builds
16:37:06GodEaterand therefore aren't as easy to get working for joe public
16:37:10LloreanGodEater: You can also look at the ratio of simply designed ones to complex ones.
16:37:18aliaskAceNik: Sounds reasonable, if I were you I'd upload it anyway.
16:37:23LloreanAt least the creators seem more inspired to make complicated ones.
16:37:31GodEaterLlorean: that only tells me about the designers preference, not the end users
16:37:35Zagorin my opinion the default wps should be a good compromise, that makes the player very friendly and usable but not overcrowd newbies with info and/or graphics
16:37:42LloreanZagor: I agree.
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16:37:51LloreanI'm not arguing for something that's cluttered.
16:37:52*preglow doesn't really like rockboxed
16:37:59preglowi would like something a bit more stylish
16:38:00LloreanI think one more line in Rockboxed won't overfill it, for most targets.
16:38:09LloreanBut I don't think Rockboxed "shows off" Rockbox.
16:38:13preglowme neither
16:38:15preglownot by far
16:38:19pixelmaGodEater: Rockboxed isn't nice on Archos either - iCatcher looks better on those. Also AFAIK Rockboxed doesn't provide any rwps's yet
16:38:32LloreanWe have some amazing WPSes out there, and people boot Rockbox and say "it's too plain"
16:38:33AceNik aliask: k then i need to have all the folders n files of the theme in the .rockbox folder right ? like .rockbox/icons/.bmp & same way all these files in a zip?
16:38:34GodEaterI've never seen an archose
16:38:35preglowicatcher is nicer by far, but could be cleaned up a bit
16:38:39GodEaterso I'll take your word for it
16:38:41Zagorit most certainly doesn't. but perhaps blinking/alternating lines is not the #1 reason people would want rockbox?
16:38:42LloreanIf they boot Rockboxed they'll say "It's too plain. And it's an ugly orange."
16:38:47leftrightI prefer simple themes. my.0002c worth
16:38:56aliaskAceNik: Yes, generally people like to release WPS' in that form.
16:39:00GodEateras opposed to, "it's tiny, and I can't read it"
16:39:03preglowwpses should stay the hell away from the "rockbox colur scheme"
16:39:13Lloreanpreglow: Light blue and black isn't bad.
16:39:22ZagorI have no opinion about the colour of Rockboxed. I've only seen it in b/W
16:39:27Lloreanpreglow: And look at Cabbie in the Gigabeat gallery for a great use of the Rockbox Colour Scheme
16:39:27preglowi'm talking orange and blue, has it changed lately?
16:39:32AceNikwould anyone be helpful to help me completing my wps based on vista , it requires tweaks on photoshop with buttons
16:39:44Lloreanpreglow: I consider Rockbox colors Black, Light Blue, and Orange.
16:39:46aliaskWhat are people's thoughts on "Rocker" (not in SVN, but imo a really nice, clean wps)
16:39:57AceNikaliask:can i release it in some other form or this ones fine
16:39:57preglowLlorean: yeah, that's better
16:40:26preglowLlorean: you can thank the colour "black" for that ;)
16:40:27LloreanZagor: I don't think a single alternating line for next track info is much, and it's something you don't see on a lot of players, which to me is good for showing off the features.
16:40:35Lloreanpreglow: Black with high contrast text, works for me.
16:40:39preglowme too
16:40:56GodEaterLlorean: shame about the new icons though ;)
16:40:57Lloreanpreglow: It's the theme I used, with a few modifications to my personal tastes (and a fix to the menu backdrop since the text gets in the way of long lists)
16:41:04LloreanGodEater: New icons?
16:41:07LloreanOh, right
16:41:10Zagoroh my god! I just looked at Rockboxed for ipod, and I surely see why you don't like it!
16:41:12LloreanI have my own icon set.
16:41:17LloreanZagor: It makes my eyes water
16:41:30Zagorindeed
16:41:31LloreanZagor: I'm quite happy with it on H100, but colour versions... no.
16:41:37preglowi think icatcher is a long way closer to being usable than rockboxed, thoigh
16:41:40preglowbut icatcher is a bit too busy
16:41:41GodEaterhas anyone asked him to make a negative version of it ?
16:41:52Lloreanpreglow: Agreed, iCatcher is a bit too much, and a bit too inspired by other firmwares.
16:42:08preglowLlorean: it also tries to cram too much in the wps
16:42:13LloreanYeah
16:42:16*linuxstb likes iCatcher
16:42:17LloreanAnd the volume circle hates me.
16:42:29Lloreanlinuxstb: I like it, I just don't think it's suited for a good compromise default.
16:42:31linuxstbBut then again I like information, and I haven't seen other firmwares....
16:42:37leftrightvolume circle has to little resolution
16:42:44preglowi want more versions of nudel green ://
16:42:46Lloreanleftright: And it shows empty at about half volume
16:42:57Lloreanleftright: Meaning you can decrease for a very long time before you reach mute, without the circle changing
16:42:58linuxstbWe're never going to agree on a default theme...
16:43:07pixelmaI also don't like that Rockboxed doesn't give info about playlist position/total entries, and (but that's quite personal preference) for me the genre info line ois almost always empty...
16:43:13Lloreanlinuxstb: I don't think it matters if we do
16:43:26Lloreanlinuxstb: I think the default theme should have optional album art (via a conditional, if it's present).
16:43:28AceNikwould anyone be interested in helping me make a theme based on vista , i have done some work need help with photoshop buttons
16:43:33leftrightLlorean, yep
16:43:49Lloreanpixelma: That's what's missing! I knew there was something fundamental I felt was missing, but couldn't put my finger on it.
16:43:59markunpreglow: nudel green looks quite nice to me
16:44:16LloreanWe also need proper color icons.
16:44:36Zagorpersonally I _like_ that playlist info is not shown. I don't think I have ever cared if I'm on 54 or 72 in my 5400-song playlist...
16:44:57Zagorbut then perhaps my "big playlist behaviour" is unusual
16:45:22LloreanZagor: I use it for finding my place in an audiobook.
16:45:51LloreanIt's a convenient feature if a WPS is to be multi-purpose
16:46:01preglowplaylist info in wps is redundant, if you ask me
16:46:04preglowat most, i care what's playing now
16:46:06preglowthat's that
16:46:38ZagorLlorean: yes, it's a good feature for some. the problem is we have so many features we simply can't showcase them all and not get cluttred beyond usefulness
16:46:47pixelmaI like the playlist info too as it gives me a feel of how long I can listen
16:46:53leftrightI have the following below the progress bar, %al%pc %ac%pp~%pe %ar%pr I really think that playlist count is important
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16:47:02ZagorI don't think the default wps should be a feature showcase
16:47:22ZagorI'd much rather have it be friendly than impressive
16:47:31aliaskZagor: I completely agree.
16:47:37LloreanZagor: It needs to be "pretty"
16:47:46Zagoryes, that I agree with
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16:47:52leftrighton a B&W screen ?
16:48:11aliaskOn a B&W screen I think a WPS should be "clean" and easy to read.
16:48:11Zagorleftright: sure, I think rockboxed is pretty on my b/w iriver
16:48:14LloreanI think it should have some "unnecessary" features, but not too many
16:48:22leftrightheh
16:48:25Lloreanleftright: Only the Archoses are actually black and white
16:48:34Lloreanleftright: The others are 2bpp, allowing for some not-bad looking grayscale.
16:49:07leftrighthmmm, to me its different shades of black
16:49:27LloreanHow can you have different shades of black?
16:49:32LloreanBut you should check your contrast then
16:49:38LloreanThere's white, light gray, dark gray, and black.
16:49:42Zagor"it's not gray, it's a lighter shade of black" ;-)
16:50:06leftrightheh, just being facetious Llorean :>
16:50:55pixelmabluebrother had begun to made a greyscale version of Rockboxed - I liked the screenshots he showed here better than the big back block at the bottom that's there now
16:51:07pixelma*black
16:51:17markunAnyone interested in looking at my little playlist patch? http://130.89.160.166/rockbox/playlist.patch
16:51:18linuxstbConsidering there are only 3 universal WPSs in SVN - Rockboxed, iCatcher and UniCatcher - is the concensus that we make one of those three the default, or choose a new one?
16:51:21markunamiconn: you maybe?
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16:52:02pixelmalinuxstb: UniCatcher isn't universal - but you forgot "boxes" in your list ;)
16:52:08linuxstbIn fact UniCatcher doesn't appear to be available for the Archoses or remotes...
16:52:11linuxstbOops..
16:52:20leftrightboxes is to me awfull
16:52:25aliasklinuxstb: I'm of the opinion we choose a new one, simply because I don't think that any of those are nice enough to have as the default (but that's purely opinion)
16:52:26LloreanI vote "new one"
16:52:33pixelmajust saying it's there
16:52:40linuxstbboxes isn't available for at least 240x320 and 176x220
16:52:46leftrightas for that puff thing
16:52:47LloreanI still rather firmly feel that at least Album Art should be an optional function of the default, since it's one of the more requested features.
16:53:01linuxstb... and the colour/greyscale 160x128
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16:53:36linuxstbLlorean: Why should we care about album art until it's implemented?
16:53:48linuxstbA default can always be changed/improved...
16:54:05linuxstbAll I'm saying is iCatcher is there now, and a patch is on flyspray to make is the default...
16:54:28GodEatersaying "new one" is all very well - but who's actually going to implement it? Do we have a willing volunteer ?
16:54:44 Quit midgey ()
16:54:45LloreanCan't we just say "none are suitable right now"?
16:54:48linuxstbExactly... If a new one appears which is better than icatcher, then just change the default.
16:54:51LloreanDo we have to pick one, or agree to make one?
16:54:59linuxstbWhy is icatcher "not suitable" ?
16:55:16GodEaterhow many other options are there which include a WPS for all our targets ?
16:55:25linuxstbIMO, it's better than the current default, and therefore is suitable.
16:55:26Zagoris there an icatcher image without album art anywhere?
16:55:38pixelmaok... drew a wrong conclusion wrt "boxes"
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16:56:02pixelmaZagor: ? - the svn version doesn't have album art...
16:56:14ZagorI mean screenshot
16:56:19pixelmaah
16:56:35LloreanI guess I'm just not a fan of iCatcher.
16:56:55LloreanBut that's personal opinion, so it's not really a reason not to use it.
16:57:13Zagorme neither. it requires a manual, which in my opinion completely eliminates it
16:57:41pixelmaZagor: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/?getfile=11577
16:58:09GodEaterit's only missing a gigabeat picture
16:58:18pixelmanot the latest I guess but I don't think there were many changes since then
16:58:30GodEaternope
16:58:33Zagormuch too cluttered. this is not what a first-time user wants to see, imho.
16:58:34GodEaterit's pretty accurate
16:58:46linuxstbZagor: ? I don't think it's cluttered at all...
16:58:46pixelmathe Archos version changed a bit
16:59:04linuxstbZagor: But you think the current default is better?
16:59:23Zagorno, that's now what I'm saying
16:59:25Zagornot
16:59:34LloreanZagor: Unfortunately, I think what most new users want to see is something like this: http://solutions-i.org/julius/images/jbg5a.bmp
16:59:36dionoeaLooks good. (Just missing some color for color targets)
16:59:45dionoeaiCatcher
17:00
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17:00:22GodEaterthat's not nice
17:00:25linuxstbZagor: But that's my point - icatcher may not be perfect for everyone, but it's better than the current default, and no-one is suggesting any other options which actually exist.
17:00:48GodEaterother than rockboxed, which sadly is hideous on colour targets
17:01:28markunwhat about rockboxed with different colours?
17:01:32dionoea+ iCatcher has the advantage of being pretty neutral (which is what you'd want for a default)
17:01:44ZagorLlorean: that one is pretty, but I think a lot of people would say that too is too cluttered.
17:01:47dionoeawhat does rockboxed look like?
17:02:07GodEatermarkun: that's what I asked earlier
17:02:19GodEaterI think it might be acceptable if you reversed the scheme
17:02:21markunah
17:02:26GodEaterit would be closer to cabbie then
17:02:33LloreanZagor: That one is probably the single most common reason people use unsupported builds. The third most popular thread on our forum is the one for the build that theme is designed around.
17:02:34GodEaterbut no-one answered me
17:02:55pixelmahttp://www.horning.us/Members/Roan/docs/rockbock/wps/ROCKboxed_screenshots/
17:03:08ZagorLlorean: I have no doubt that this theme is very popular.
17:03:21Zagorbut I don't think selecting the most popular theme is a good idea
17:03:25LloreanZagor: I actually prefer Rockbox default without peakmeters as my personal theme, but we seem to have attracted a crowd whose primary interest in Rockbox is the option to theme their device, rather than the functional aspects.
17:03:31LloreanI don't suggest we choose that one.
17:03:32Zagorwe need a beginners wps as default
17:03:42LloreanWhat would be a "beginners" WPS?
17:03:58linuxstbI also think the default theme should also be used to demonstrate Rockbox's features - which makes icatcher more appropriate than a minimal theme with very little info.
17:04:13Lloreanlinuxstb: iCatcher is more appropriate on that scale, yes.
17:04:38LloreanI think my distaste for iCatcher just revolves around the volume display, and the fact that it feels a lot like the iPod playing screen.
17:04:39LloreanTo me.
17:04:41Zagorin my mind, the purpose of the default wps is not to stop people theming
17:04:54Zagorthe purpose is to give a good first impression
17:05:03LloreanZagor: And too much simplicity doesn't do that.
17:05:05Zagora "this is not a geeks-only" impression
17:05:12dionoeaThe current default gives a horrible first impression :)
17:05:18Zagordionoea: definitely
17:05:20LloreanIt needs to be clear, and intuitive.
17:05:29LloreanBut it also needs to show things that your device couldn't do before.
17:05:49LloreanI don't think any of the all-target themes currently succeed at both of those well.
17:06:12ZagorLlorean: it's quite clear that rockbox can do things their old firmware couldn't. I don't think it's necessary to cram things into the wps just to make that point.
17:06:35LloreanZagor: If you cram too many things it loses "clear and intuitive" anyway
17:06:49LloreanZagor: I don't think it should be sparse, just because you think "beginners" can't grasp next track info.
17:07:08LloreanOn most of our screens, we have a lot of real estate.
17:07:26Llorean176x132 is still a good deal of space, and it just goes up from there.
17:07:26pondlifeSlasheri: For your info, my sim never builds the database because it's waiting forever for dircache to initialise. Well, I left it for 2 hours or so.
17:07:33Zagoryeah, that's probably a source of our disagreement. on the little h140 display there's not really much room for next track.
17:07:43LloreanZagor: Not every theme needs to have everything, though.
17:07:57LloreanThe overall appearance needs to be consistent, but it doesn't have to have an identical featurset for each player.
17:08:04Zagorexactly
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17:08:54Zagorwhat I don't like about iCatcher is that it sprinkles numbers across the screen without explanations
17:09:16leftrightwhat I dislike about most wps is that I dont want to remember that the first line is the artist, second track, third album, I like the idea of having icons depicting what each line means
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17:09:18Zagorand I still don't understand what the broken digits in the top row means
17:09:24LloreaniCatcher doesn't really hit the 'intuitive' mark for me, in a lot of ways.
17:09:35LloreanZagor: The 1 2 3, or 3 1 2, represents Shuffle
17:09:41linuxstbZagor: Those screenshots are slightly out of date. For example, the "genre" is replaced by current track, and the battery % (top-left, under the dB) has a power symbol next to it.
17:09:44Zagoraha
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17:10:04Lloreanleftright: Boxes did that, if I recall.
17:10:26leftrightor at least seperate, artist, track, album lines with titles or suchlikes, thats what I have done with mine
17:10:40*Llorean hates to go back to the volume circle, but feels strongly that if the volume circle is empty, that should mean the player is muted, not 'still too loud for me to go to sleep'
17:11:26linuxstbLlorean: Ah, I never noticed the volume circle before... I just looked at the dB display.
17:11:55Lloreanlinuxstb: Personally I'd be happy if it just weren't there. :)
17:12:05LloreanA circle of dots isn't exactly clear in purpose anyway
17:12:10leftrightI agree about that circle volume display, not informative at all
17:12:22pixelmaLlorean: when did you last try iCatcher? I must admit that I haven't tried in a long time too- but I thought it would be better since the change that you can use as many enums as you like...
17:12:43linuxstbBut it seems we have two options - 1) Make iCatcher the default; 2) Forget about it and hope someone comes up with a better universal WPS in the future...
17:12:47 Quit Zagor ("Client exiting")
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17:13:02Lloreanpixelma: It's better now, I've just tried it.
17:13:15Lloreanpixelma: It's still not ideal. You're 8 dB above "Mute" when it shows nothing on the circle
17:13:30dionoeathe "Theme X" themes (for Video iPod) look really good
17:13:35dionoea(and they're intuitive)
17:13:38leftrighti suppose the idea of a default wps it that it should be neutral, not scare a non geek noob away
17:13:40pixelmaok... thanks for trying :)
17:13:47***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
17:13:55Lloreanpixelma: I'm just grumpy and not a fan, I guess. :)
17:14:25*linuxstb suspects that the current default will scare more users than icatcher...
17:14:30LloreanWe *could* just have a "Default WPS contest" and see if anyone submits anything interesting.
17:14:34pixelmawell I don't use it myself... still preferring it a lot over Rockboxed
17:14:41pondlifeOK, who's going to update all the manual screenshots once we have a new default theme? ;p
17:14:45Lloreanlinuxstb: I agree on that at least.
17:14:50leftrightmy default is way to simple for the contest
17:15:02pixelmapondlife: the manual doesn't show the wps IIRC
17:15:04linuxstbLlorean: That's all I'm saying. But it also happens that I personally like icatcher....
17:15:05dionoeaLlorean: that would be a good idea i think
17:15:41Lloreanlinuxstb: I just don't like the idea of changing, and then changing again, for the default.
17:15:42leftrightthe simpler it is the less chance it has of breaking due to a svn mod
17:15:50LloreanI'd rather stick with the current one until there's a very solid candidate.
17:15:53dionoea(make sure that you ask people designing themes not to copy a media player's theme ... it has to be original)
17:15:55LloreanI can't justify that at all though
17:16:03GodEatergodeater.cream.org/reversed_rockboxed.jpg">http://godeater.cream.org/reversed_rockboxed.jpg
17:16:10*linuxstb remembers suggesting a theme competition a year ago but the consensus was to wait for viewports....
17:16:14GodEatergodeater.cream.org/reversed_rockboxed.jpg">http://godeater.cream.org/reversed_rockboxed.jpg (Connection just went flakey, not sure if it made it to the channel)
17:16:20Lloreandionoea: Yeah, it would have to be 100% original, containing no art not created by them or GPL distributable.
17:16:23GodEaterclearly that's a REALLY rough attempt
17:16:30GodEaterbut it looks a lot better IMHO
17:16:46markunGodEater: to me it looks worse
17:17:04linuxstbLlorean: I just don't see a new candidate appearing in the near future...
17:17:41dionoeato me this looks good: http://rockbox-themes.org/data/320x240x16/Theme_X_Glow.png
17:17:42GodEatermarkun: even taking in to account I didn't bother doing the status bar bit properly ?
17:17:46leftrightperhaps we need a dictator to excercise his democracy and make a decision
17:18:07GodEaterdionoea: the problem with that is that it doesn't exist for all our targets ?
17:18:15Lloreanlinuxstb: You're probably right. I think I'm just being stubborn and should probably be ignored in this case.
17:18:20dionoeawell it obviously wouldn't fit on small screen
17:18:22dionoea+s
17:18:23markunGodEater: I don't like the screen to be black
17:18:23LloreanI just really dislike all the current candidates, personally
17:18:30 Quit lids (Remote closed the connection)
17:18:43Lloreanleftright: I'd try but they won't give me the job. :-P
17:18:49GodEatermarkun: fair enough - I guess you're not a fan of cabbie then
17:18:55markunnot really
17:19:00 Quit Siltaar ("Aurevoir - www.fdn.fr/~sdescarp")
17:19:08leftrightheh, I think that every user has his/her opinion on what constitutes a nice wps, ergo no concensus
17:19:12GodEaterI'm in favour of Llorean being ignored in this case. It doesn't happen often enough ;)
17:19:35markunGodEater: what do you think of nudel green?
17:19:38dionoeaYou'll need to do a theme vote "a la debian". (using the condorcet voting method)
17:19:56dionoeachooses the choice which is less disliked
17:20:03GodEatermarkun: think I missed the link
17:20:35markunhttp://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/WpsIpod5g#Nudel_Green_5G
17:20:40*leftright googles nudel
17:21:07GodEatermarkun: that's nice - is it complete across all DAPS ?
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17:22:00GodEaterLlorean: btw, did you look at that manual patch I submitted this morning ?
17:22:12LloreanGodEater: No, I haven't yet. I'll go do that right now
17:22:22GodEaterthanks
17:22:29GodEater7057 I think
17:22:38 Quit Guest52768 (Connection timed out)
17:22:41LloreanWhy don't we have a WPS contest anyway. We can have one again after viewports.
17:22:51GodEatergood idea
17:22:54 Quit Entasis (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
17:23:03LloreanAnyone object if I put out the call for default WPS submissions?
17:23:11GodEaternot me
17:23:13linuxstbLlorean: Please do.
17:23:16LloreanI shall
17:23:22leftrightthis ought to be fun
17:23:31*Llorean makes use of gratuitous exclamation marks AND caps.
17:23:37GodEateroh lord
17:23:44leftrightdont forget the smileys
17:23:46*amiconn doesn't like any of the shipped themes (except builtin) due to their load times
17:24:00GodEaterthat was predictable
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17:25:49AceNikguys i have a account on flyspray , & rockbox forums , to upload a wps it says i need a wiki account , when i click cancel in the attach link it shows this "{ScriptUrlPath}/view/TWiki/TWikiRegistration"
17:25:59GodEaterI think a competition should make it to the www.rockbox.org front page - not just to the forums.
17:26:05*amiconn also disagrees with Zagor that the H1x0 display hasn't enough room for next track
17:26:33amiconnNot that I need next track info, in fact none of my wps'es has it...
17:26:41leftrightno need for next track info, just wait for it to play, it'll happen for sure
17:26:53GodEaterindeed, I never use it either
17:27:07dionoeano need for wps either in fact :) since you listen to the music, you don't look at the screen
17:27:17leftrightand if you dont like it right joystick, and all is well
17:27:51GodEater<tongue in cheek> the default wps screen should be the plasma plugin and have done with it
17:28:00GodEaterno info at all but plenty of eye candy
17:28:16AceNikguys can you help me make a wiki account i need to upload a wps
17:28:19leftrightVU meters only
17:28:46amiconnnah
17:29:06leftrightthey're so cool, mesmirising,
17:29:23pixelmaGodEater: on some of the "pretty" WPSs floating around in the forums - I cannot actually find the info too...
17:29:39Lloreanhttp://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=10030.0 <−− Comments/corrections/"you're an idiot"s welcome
17:30:06*pixelma checks for occurance of "CVS" :P
17:30:06linuxstbLlorean: Shouldn't that be "theme", rather than wps?
17:30:37Lloreanlinuxstb: Should it be?
17:30:45LloreanDo we want to include iconsets and a menu backdrop in this?
17:30:59GodEaterAceNik: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/TWiki/TWikiRegistration
17:31:13GodEaterLlorean: I think we should
17:31:34dionoeaLlorean: only one creative commons license is GPL compatible (sa-25 scottland)
17:31:40dionoea+spellfix
17:31:42AceNikGodEater: ya im on that page , do i have write permissions from you guys to make changes to any page
17:31:47lowlightThe "Dockpod Remix" wps looks nice. I like the font it uses too.
17:31:52linuxstbLlorean: At the very least the colour -scheme for the rest of Rockbox should match the wps...
17:31:58LloreanGodEater: I don't understand this line: + \playerman{} firmware on the \daps{} disk. (there's also unnecessary stuff at the beginning, that I'll have to remove)
17:32:13Lloreanlinuxstb: That's just a background color, or backdrop for the menu, right now.
17:32:14GodEaterAceNik - tell us what your Wikiname is, and we'll give you those permissions
17:32:17linuxstbLlorean: And (/me shudders) customisable icons...
17:32:30Lloreanlinuxstb: Should we ask for iconsets for each?
17:32:34 Quit gtkspert (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
17:32:36Lloreandionoea: Share-alike?
17:32:40GodEaterLlorean: no idea where that came from - it was what svn diff generated.
17:32:47linuxstbLlorean: I think just ask for themes, and see what people provide.
17:32:53Lloreanlinuxstb: Okay
17:32:59AceNikGodEater: so i should make an accout now that means & then tell you , will the rockbox forums account do
17:33:15GodEaterAceNik - your wiki account has to be your real name
17:33:21PaulJamLlorean: you should maybe put a link to the prebuilt simulators in the text.
17:33:38GodEaterthat's a good idea PaulJam
17:33:58LloreanPaulJam: Done
17:34:08dionoeaLlorean: Attribution Share-Alike (forgot the first A it seems) 2.5 UK: Scotland
17:34:39Lloreandionoea: Scotland?
17:34:57idnarattribution is "BY"
17:35:04dionoeayeah, the UK version is compatible
17:35:08dionoeaidnar: right. thanks :)
17:35:22idnarI thought Share-Alike was GPL *in*compatible
17:35:27*idnar scratches his head
17:35:35dionoeano the Scotland version
17:35:37LloreanI thought there was on CC license that was compatible.
17:35:40LloreanOne
17:35:40dionoeasome wods are different
17:35:43LloreanOf the "general" ones.
17:35:47dionoea*words
17:35:47LloreanBut I could be wrong.
17:36:10linuxstbLlorean: What do people actually do to submit a theme for the competition? :)
17:36:10LloreanI'm not sure how licensing has to work on this, honestly
17:36:12dionoeaYou can google it (at least that's the consensus among Debian folks and such)
17:36:17GodEateris there a prize for the contest above the kudos of it being selected as the default ?
17:36:36GodEaterlinuxstb: I propose a wiki page for submissions
17:36:42dionoeayou get a free rockbox build!
17:36:50GodEaterDefaultWPSCompetition for example
17:36:55Lloreanlinuxstb: Patch tracker?
17:37:15 Join lini [0] (i=pugsley@62.204.144.237)
17:37:28linuxstbYes, maybe patch tracker is best - isn't there a wiki page that describes the rules for submitting a wps for inclusion?
17:37:58LloreanYeah, but I can never remember the name of it
17:38:00linuxstbi.e. things like falling back to filenames if there are no tags
17:38:14linuxstbhttp://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/SubmitWPS
17:39:07GodEaterdionoea: I must have won - I just got a free rockbox build!
17:39:42AceNikGodEater: i did register for a wiki account it said it sending me a code in my mail , but i dont have any yet
17:39:54AceNikGodEater: got it
17:40:12GodEaterwhat's your wiki name?
17:40:23LloreanUpdated the post
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17:40:46AceNik GodEater:NikkhilNarang
17:41:50AceNik GodEater:so what are the things i can do with thi account
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17:42:30scorcheAceNik: edit pretty much all pages
17:42:52AceNik GodEater:can i upload a wps for now please
17:43:03AceNik GodEater: do i have permission for that
17:43:11GodEaterAceNik: scorche just added you to the right groups - so yes
17:43:20scorchei did?
17:43:56GodEateroh
17:43:57GodEatersorry
17:44:00AceNik GodEater:thanks scorche, will jst give the link to the wps in 2 mins
17:44:03GodEaterthought that's what your comment meant
17:44:18*GodEater batters at firefox's password box to try and let him login to the site
17:44:24scorcheno, but now i did
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17:45:11GodEatersorry scorche I misunderstood =/
17:45:46scorcheno problem....i am just in a rush to pack everything up for a 10 hour drive...no worry at all ;)
17:45:59LloreanSo, does the post look okay now?
17:46:39AceNik GodEater:if im attaching screenshots , there is no need to hide file , n make a link is thr?
17:47:18scorcheAceNik: instructions and guidelines are here: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/WpsGallery
17:47:37linuxstbLlorean: Maybe also say that any theme (not just the winner) entered in the competition may be committed to SVN and included in official builds (assuming that's the case - I think it should be).
17:49:22Lloreanlinuxstb: Agreed
17:50:41dionoeaand emphasise *any* instead of *all* :)
17:50:41pixelmaLlorean: could you also mention rwps (would be nice if the default theme would be this complete) ?
17:50:47Lloreanlinuxstb: I mentioned that there's no "prize" outside possibly being chosen as default. As well any themes submitted may be chosen to be included either with the build, or as part of an "Extras" like the fonts containing "official" themes.
17:50:57Lloreanpixelma: I don't consider it complete without RWPS.
17:51:07LloreanI'll include a reminder
17:51:34pixelmaso Rockboxed would have been out of the race anyways... yet of course ;)
17:51:55linuxstbLlorean: Is it worth also saying it must work with standard SVN, or is that obvious? I don't like to assume things....
17:52:04Lloreanlinuxstb: The SubmitWPS page says that
17:52:06aliaskWhat are the rules on redoing other's work?
17:52:12Lloreanlinuxstb: And I said it has to comply with the SubmitWPS page
17:52:22Feral_KidI did an installed to a 4G Ipod... I did this with a simple unzipping to the root directory, and everything looks good to go... But when I do a reboot, it still comes back as the standard Ipod firmware... And yes there is a .rockbox directory and a rockbox.ipod in place on the root...
17:52:25Lloreanaliask: "It must be original work, or composed entirely of things you have permission to redistribute"
17:52:36LloreanFeral_Kid: Please read the manual
17:52:40LloreanFeral_Kid: You did not install the bootloader
17:52:43linuxstbaliask: That depends on the license the original work has been released under. Problem is that no WPS authors seem to state a license...
17:53:09Lloreanpixelma: RWPS note added
17:53:13aliaskWell, I guess it rules out redoing one of the wps' and adapting to all resolutions/colours
17:53:27preglowaliask, linuxstb: which means you can't rework and release
17:53:29Lloreanaliask: They could always contact the author and ask first.
17:53:32scorchealiask: well, you could always ask the author
17:53:38linuxstbpreglow: Exactly...
17:53:45LloreanGodEater: Manual *should* be fixed.
17:53:56preglowif there is no copyright notice, the original author has full copyright and rights
17:54:08linuxstbIt's an annoying situation - we should try and give guidance to WPS authors and suggest a license.
17:54:18LloreanNow that I undid my own typo (I was just copying and pasting instead of moving the .diff over to the VMWare image and then patching, so I missed a line)
17:54:24preglowcreative commons or some such seems to do well in that segment
17:54:37preglowbut there's not much of a reason not to use gpl, i guess
17:55:00dionoeathe only issue with GPL is how do you define the sources of the image ?
17:55:10Lloreandionoea: What do you mean?
17:55:18LloreanIsn't there a Gnu document license of some sort? Is it any good?
17:55:21pixelmaLlorean: why only "an rwps" - maybe this is because I'm not a native speaker but I'd understand this to be "there needs to be _one_"
17:55:38scorcheLlorean: tis what the manual is under
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17:56:21Lloreanpixelma: I'm not sure what question you're asking, but I wouldn't be surprised if I screwed up the grammar.
17:56:23dionoeaLlorean: well you must distribute the sources with a GPL licensed program (GPL is for programs btw) ... which means pretty much every thing which can be used to recreate the images. (Like the photoshop files or something)
17:57:28Lloreandionoea: I know GPL is for programs. I suppose that's true for the photoshop files.
17:57:51dionoeaYou could argue that you made the images with paint ... but no one would beleive you :D
17:57:56LloreanBut the GPL just states that it requires you to distribute the sources necessary to recreate it, not all sources.
17:58:49***Server message 505: 'logbot- :Private messages from unregistered users are currently blocked due to spam problems, but you can always message a staffer. Please register! ( http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#privmsg )'
17:59:08pixelmaLlorean: and I'm not sure if I understand correctly, but so far two different rwps's are needed - I would somehow read it as "one rwps is enough" and I doubt anyone knows that there are two different remote "resolutions" out there to be considered
17:59:14Feral_KidLlorean> Sorry, I meant to add that earlier... What I meant was when I boot, I keep getting a flashing folder (with a exclamation), so thing about apple.com and then it reboots... But if I plug it into the USB port, it still mounts...
17:59:17aliaskDoes the logbot have a seen function?
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17:59:33Lloreandionoea: In fact it clearly means "the preferred form for making modifications", I think for an image, just the image file is enough to satisfy that, but I'm not a lawyer.
17:59:34scorchealiask: yes
17:59:40LloreanEr, clearly "says" not "means"
17:59:42scorchealiask: or so it is rumored
17:59:54aliaskscorche: /msg logbot- !seen <nick> ?
17:59:58Lloreanpixelma: The H300 and H100 only have one resolution. The X5 has another. Right?
18:00
18:00:07toffe82Llorean: perhaps ask for a new rockbox logo at the same time
18:00:08dionoeaLlorean: that's debatable ... but it's a possible interpretation :
18:00:08LloreanSo there's only one per target.
18:00:14dionoea:)
18:00:25Lloreandionoea: Yeah, as I said, licensing is to be determined, more or less
18:00:42 Quit ceaser (Remote closed the connection)
18:00:53LloreanFeral_Kid: You said it still comes back as the standard iPod firmware.
18:01:03LloreanFeral_Kid: Which is contradictory to what you say now. What *exact* steps did you take?
18:01:12Lloreantoffe82: No, not at the same time.
18:01:31Lloreantoffe82: I've only liked one submitted idea for a new logo, and I'm not stepping forward and saying "It's time to change." I like the current one.
18:01:37scorchealiask: well, you have to be identified and edit your options so that you can be PMed by non-identified "people"
18:01:50LloreanIf there's to be a logo change, it's a different contest, and not one I'm having to start. :-P
18:02:10pixelmaLlorean: ah now I see, didn't see the connection to "targets"... though maybe reference to screen resolutions would be better anyways?
18:02:45linuxstbAn explicit list of LCD resolutions/depths may be helpful (or may just scare people away...)
18:03:03Lloreanpixelma: What's the RWPS on the X5?
18:03:08Lloreanlinuxstb: I was just typing that up
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18:03:18pixelma128x96x2
18:03:39*linuxstb counts 13 .wps files for icatcher...
18:04:00pixelmaa list of targets would be longer
18:04:27pixelmathere's a table of screen resolution on the CustomWPS page or so I believe
18:05:54LloreanThe mini is 2bpp, right?
18:06:12scorcheim out....see you in 11 or so hours...whenever i hook my computer back up
18:06:39 Part rift
18:06:41aliaskscorche: Enjoy the drive
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18:06:48scorchei wish
18:07:01pixelmathough the bit depth column there is confusing...
18:07:01aliask:P
18:07:12aliaskI'm out too. G'night all.
18:07:13Lloreanpixelma: And inaccurate.
18:07:18 Quit scorche (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- State of the art IRC")
18:07:20 Quit aliask ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.3/0000000000]")
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18:07:27LloreanI've added a second post with the list of resolutions. Anyone see any typos or missing resolutions?
18:07:51Feral_KidLlorean> Not contradictory at all, just not clear on what I considered the standard ipod firmware display... 1.) used ipodpatcher to load bootloader 2.) unzipped rockbox-20070225-4g-noscaling.zip 3) followed up with rockbox-fonts.zip Rebooted
18:08:22LloreanFeral_Kid: If you boot with hold on, does it go into the apple firmware?
18:09:04Feral_KidLlorean> No, it comes up with a flashing folder, then reboots
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18:10:58pixelmaLlorean: I'm not sure how important that is but one thing about the Archos display is that it has rectangular pixels, that can have an influence on the appearance. Don't know if it's worth mentioning...
18:11:19Feral_KidLlorean> But it does still allow me to get to the drive via USB so not that hosed...
18:11:50Lloreanpixelma: They should be testing in the simulator anyway, does the sim simulate that?
18:12:20LloreanFeral_Kid: It sounds like the bootloader install did not complete successfully. Try to uninstall it, if ipodpatcher will let you. Otherwise you may need to restore the ipod somehow.
18:12:21pixelmano - how should that work? (Squeeze your monitor?) ;)
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18:13:55Lloreanpixelma: Well, what's the ratio of them?
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18:14:18Lloreanpixelma: The simulator could do a 2x zoom for the screen, and draw them 2px wide and 3 tall, for example. :-P
18:14:21pixelmawidth = 80% of height
18:14:41LloreanSo, 5:4
18:14:49LloreanEr, 4:5
18:15:26LloreanIs this true of all the 112x64 screens (all bitmap Archoses)?
18:15:37Feral_KidLlorean> Does this look right?
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18:15:40Feral_KidWrote 3563520 bytes to firmware partition
18:15:42pixelmaLlorean: yes
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18:16:43Lloreanpixelma: (Note: These screens feature rectangular pixels that are 4:5 width:height ratio) ?
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18:17:42pixelmasounds good - I'll be willing to follow the thread and try any contributions and give feedback
18:18:07LloreanSounds good
18:18:27LloreanHopefully there's interest
18:18:45Feral_KidLlorean> That solved the problem... Thanks...
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18:19:20Feral_KidLlorean> There was a site with the latest scaled firmware... Do you know where that might be?
18:21:08LloreanFeral_Kid: I don't know, it's an unofficial build and not really supported. Try the unsupported builds section of the forum
18:22:05Feral_KidLlorean> Thanks again...
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18:26:09linuxstbLlorean: Are you planning on announcing the competition anywhere else? e.g. the mailing lists, misticriver, ... Maybe Bagder could add a news item with a link to the forum thread...
18:26:33pixelmaLlorean: I also _believe_ that rockbox could use 24-bit.bmps everywhere which will be scaled to the targets bit depth later - but that maybe is not desired and also one has less control over it (for example like the changes to greyscale display that made some graphics of icatcher look broken for a while - those where colour bmps before because he wanted to reuse some graphics so that there are less files in SVN)
18:26:33AceNikhey uys i uploaded a wps , i get these [ , n ? in the preview how do i remove it
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18:28:18Lloreanpixelma: I'd be perfectly happy with 24-bit files everywhere, so that grayscale WPSes could be used on color screens nicely (H10 and H120 and X5 and M5 all at once) but that's a future thing. :)
18:28:47 Quit lini (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
18:30:09pixelmaLlorean: I just mentioned it because of the last sentence about the colour bmps in your forum post
18:30:09linuxstbAceNik: It looks like you deleted most of the iaudio X5 wiki page...
18:30:31AceNikno i havent i have not even saved any changes yet
18:30:42AceNikim just previewing my own stuff
18:30:55AceNikare you serious
18:30:58linuxstbAre you NikkhilNarang?
18:31:08AceNikya
18:31:18AceNiki havent saved changes or anything yet
18:31:25AceNikim just previewing
18:31:37linuxstbYou saved some changes at 16.11.45 (GMT I think) today.
18:31:48linuxstbi.e. 20 minutes ago
18:31:53AceNiki ahev the whole pae in front of me in the dit section
18:31:56AceNikedit
18:32:05AceNiktrust me its appearing fine when i preview
18:32:23AceNikdo you want to c the preview link i use
18:32:28AceNikwill it show
18:32:45AceNikits my first time
18:32:53linuxstbIt's OK, I'll have a look when you've finished editing. We can easily restore from older versions of the page
18:33:12AceNikthank god i got so scared
18:33:29linuxstbAll changes are reversible in the wiki...
18:33:31AceNiki wanted to know how to remove the [ , ? from being seen in the page
18:33:52linuxstbIt's hard to say without seeing your changes.
18:34:17AceNikk then should i hit the button to save changes
18:34:25linuxstbYes, go ahead..
18:35:09 Quit funky ("leaving")
18:35:26amiconnpixelma, Llorean: The rockbox bmp loader is able to load 1bit, 4bit, 8bit, 16bit, 24bit and 32bit BMPs on all bitmap targets
18:36:10amiconnHowever, I don't think it makes sense to use 24bit everywhere. As already mentioned, this would give less control over how it actually looks (and the files are larger)
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18:36:51Lloreanamiconn: It might make sense to do 8-bit or 16-bit grayscale ones, so that there are more shades of gray for color targets of the same resolution
18:37:27amiconnMore than 8bit grayscale doesn't make sense
18:37:35linuxstbAceNik: Is the problem the "Download:" link at the bottom?
18:37:43amiconn16bit BMPs will give you _less_ shades of gray than 8bit ones
18:38:00Lloreanamiconn: Well then 8-bit
18:38:01AceNikya
18:38:23linuxstbAceNik: I think the problem is that you have "[" and "]" in the filename - [ and ] are used for markup in the twiki.
18:38:28AceNiki fixed that
18:38:31amiconn8bit BMPs use a pallette; for grayscale this allows to define any of the 256 possible brightness levels
18:38:50Lloreanamiconn: I wasn't really familiar with how palletted bitmaps work.
18:38:55amiconn16bit BMPs are either RGB565 or XRGB1555, so only 32 levels of (pure) gray
18:39:32AceNik linuxstb:its done , now tell me if there are any errors on the page n also why is there a ? mark at the end of my name i cant remove it
18:40:12pondlifeAlso maybe someone could remove the ATTENTION ADMINS part further up...?
18:40:35pondlifeI'd do it myself but don't want to clash with your edits.
18:40:39linuxstbAceNik: "AceNik" is in the format for a "wiki name" - so the wiki turns it into a link to a wiki page called AceNik. That page doesn't exist, which is why there's a ?.
18:41:06linuxstbAceNik: I forget how, but you need to tell twiki not to treat it as a wiki name.
18:41:06amiconnPrepend a <nop>, and the ? will vanish
18:41:17linuxstbThere you go...
18:41:19AceNik linuxstb: so do i leave a space in between instead Ace Nik
18:42:03amiconnAceNik: <nop>AceNik
18:42:13AceNikya tryin that
18:43:23pixelmaLlorean: would it be ok if someone publishes a WPS for his/her target and asks if someone else has interest to port it to a different resolution? (That would clutter up the thread I guess and be of worth only in rare cases). Though I could imagine that posts like this pop up...
18:43:27AceNikits done my changes are made , please let me know if everythin according to youis fine , it was my first time
18:44:00Lloreanpixelma: If people start doing that, I think there will be a *lot* of incomplete WPSes.
18:44:04linuxstbAceNik: Looks good to me - you may want to add the <nop> to AceNik in the heading as well
18:44:09Lloreanpixelma: People doing it *just* for their target, posting it, and leaving it.
18:44:21AceNikim done with the save changes button now
18:45:15Lloreanpixelma: That being said, I won't mind one or two doing it, but I don't want to suggest it, and if it gets cluttered with that, I'll put a stop to it.
18:45:39AceNikhow does the wps look any suggestions guys
18:45:41linuxstbLlorean: I agree there's a danger in that, but on the other hand it's a lot of work to produce 13 different versions of a WPS.
18:45:51pixelmaok... that what just was crossing my mind
18:45:59PaulJamAceNik: a little remark, instead of disabling the statusbar via the .cfg file you coud just use the %wd wps-tag.
18:46:30AceNikPaulJam: i have used it
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18:47:09PaulJamAceNik: but why do you disable the statusbar in the config then?
18:47:09Lloreanlinuxstb: As I said, I don't mind if people do it, but I don't want it to get out of hand. So I'm not going to suggest it, and if it becomes popular to ask for others to complete it, I'll probably split them to another thread.
18:47:57AceNikPaulJam:it was how it was int he original , idint bother with it , so the code was just changes to make it work well on H10 , & pictures were resized
18:48:28AceNikPaulJam:does it make a difference , if yes can u tell me an instance, then ill rechane it & uplaod
18:48:57linuxstbLlorean: Did you see my question (about 22 minutes ago) about promoting the competition?
18:49:13LloreanAceNik: I prefer my themes not to change my menu status bar option unless they require it *on* because they've made a backdrop for it
18:49:33Lloreanlinuxstb: Ah, no, missed that entirely
18:49:40Lloreanlinuxstb: Yes, I think it needs a news post on the front page of the site.
18:49:45LloreanAnd probably a post to the user ML
18:49:48AceNikAlright i shall re upload it with a new .cfg
18:49:49*Llorean will do that
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18:52:43Lloreanlinuxstb: Should I post at MisticRiver/iAudiophile/Anythingbutipod?
18:54:37*Llorean spreads the word.
18:54:53AceNikguys how do i delete the previous attachment
18:56:05markunAceNik: from the wiki?
18:56:33AceNikno i mean i updated my wps .zip now , so i want to delete the earlier .zip
18:56:50PaulJamAceNik: i'm not sure, but i think this was disabled some time ago. you have to ask an admin to delete it.
18:57:08LloreanAceNik: When you want to update, you're not supposed to upload a new file
18:57:09AceNikya it doesnt allow me too
18:57:18LloreanAceNik: You're supposed to choose the old file, and "manage" it, you can replace it with a newer version
18:57:35markunLlorean: is that not disalowed?
18:57:37AceNiki did that but it still shows 2 versions
18:57:38pixelmayou could "manage -> update" your previous upload and load the new one...
18:57:58Lloreanmarkun: I can do it, and I don't have any special wiki privileges.
18:58:09LloreanAceNik: That's because it's too late now.
18:58:16pixelmamarkun: moving it to trash isn't allowed atm
18:58:27AceNikso will someone delete the 1version now
18:58:38AceNikim linking in the gallery the second version
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19:04:16AceNikguys im done
19:04:36AceNikplease can someone delete version1 , bye thanks
19:05:46PaulJamAceNik: you could now remove the remark, that the theme disables the statusbar in th emenus and browser.
19:06:22AceNikoh yes thanks
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19:13:51***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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19:15:18PaulJami just noticed that the themes that get shipped with rockbox (on h300) also change the statusbar their .cfg file (statusbar: on). isn't that redundant with the %wd/%we wps-tags?
19:18:04 Nick x-spec-t is now known as Spec (n=nwheeler@ubuntu/member/spec)
19:18:57LloreanThe tags only affect it in the WPS
19:19:12LloreanThe default themes intend for the Rockbox status bar to be present in the menus as well, I suppose
19:19:50 Quit pondlife ("disconnected has pondlife")
19:21:03PaulJambut they don't use a backdrop. i don't really see the need for these themes to enable the statusbar.
19:22:54spiorfhere's my copy-resize-paste work of today, a new icon theme: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IconSets#BuufNano_12x12x16
19:22:59LloreanMaybe the authors liked status bars?
19:23:21LloreanI really, really wish people wouldn't antialiase their icons to a background. =/
19:24:28PaulJamok, if this is intended, then i'll shut up. i just thought these were leftovers from the time when there were no wd/we tags.
19:24:53LloreanThey might be as well, I dunno
19:27:43spiorfLlorean, there are gimp files in the zip
19:28:02Lloreanspiorf: Which means you could've included aliased versions suitable for any backdrop.
19:28:10spiorfit can't
19:28:19spiorfah, aliased
19:28:54LloreanIt's my personal opinion though
19:28:57spiorfthey were really uglywithout antialiasing. so ugly that noone would ever want to use them
19:29:41LloreanI just don't like icons restricted to one backdrop color.
19:29:52LloreanIf anything choose black, or white, so that they're a little more generic (imho)
19:29:57LloreanBlack is probably best.
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19:30:06spiorfi'll do then
19:30:21 Quit ptw419 ()
19:30:22spiorfit's only matter of filling a level with a color
19:30:45LloreanI just like the idea of the posted icon-set being as independent as possible.
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19:32:44spiorfi'm making a white and a black one
19:33:02LloreanFebs: You here?
19:33:34FebsYes.
19:33:49LloreanFebs: You're a moderator at MR, right? Can you approve posts in the "Rockbox" general forum?
19:34:02FebsYes, and yes.
19:34:24LloreanI've posted there about the default theme design competition, and was wondering if you could check on approving it?
19:34:42FebsI just approved it.
19:34:45LloreanThank you
19:35:13FebsTo this day I don't understand why that forum is moderated, but it's a battle I've fought before and isn't worth fighting again.
19:35:35LloreanI was quite surprised when it told me it was.
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19:48:48amiconnlinuxstb: The 144x80 version also suffers from the stuttering audio problem :(
19:50:43 Quit jhulst (Remote closed the connection)
19:50:45amiconnWhat parameters does the audio part of your ED encodings use, btw?
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20:09:42RedbrevaOn the topic of Theme popularity, there is a chart of download numbers for Rockbox-Themes try http://www.rockbox-themes.org/Top30_Charts/2007/2007_YTD.html for figures for this year.
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21:00:45z0deits a bad day :(
21:00:54z0dehas anyone had their x5 die?
21:01:04z0dejust stoped working mid play in my pocket :(
21:01:58z0dewont charge/boot with comp eather
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21:07:48linuxstbamiconn: ED audio is lame mp3 @ about 170kbps VBR IIRC. I could try a lower quality if you have any suggestions.
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21:13:31amiconnlinuxstb: I am wondering about vo_setup()
21:13:50amiconnIs it really necessary to call that for every gop?
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21:14:33amiconnFor grayscale, it would be helpful to know the video x and y resolution at the start, and only reserve a partial grayscale overlay if it's not fullscreen
21:14:33 Quit hannesd_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
21:14:34linuxstbIt is? I'm pretty sure it never used to be.
21:15:18amiconnmpegplayer.c line1343
21:15:59z0deno one knows what i can do with my x5?
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21:16:49Febsz0de: how long have you tried charging it?
21:17:09z0deyup
21:17:12z0deno responce
21:17:19z0delights or anything
21:17:25FebsRead my question again.
21:17:30linuxstbamiconn: Yes, it seems it's always done that. That main decoding loop is based on the sample application that comes with libmpeg2, and afaik, it's legal for mpeg streams to change size mid-stream....
21:17:38z0deoops
21:17:40z0debout 5mins
21:17:41amiconnurgh...
21:18:09FebsTry charging it for half an hour or more. Sometimes if LiIon battery are completely discharged, they won't respond immediately.
21:18:34z0dewell it was full charged a few hours ago when i checked it
21:18:50z0deill try thou.
21:18:52linuxstbamiconn: But I wouldn't be against changing that if there's a good reason. I don't think that's a feature of mpeg2 we have to support.
21:20:30linuxstbAlso, maybe the greyscale init should be done on the COP, and we should try to get the timer task running on the COP as well. That would solve the audio performance issues, but possibly give us video performance issues....
21:20:52linuxstb(i.e. initialise from within the video thread)
21:21:41NET||abuseasstounding, got my ipod mini out after 3 years just sitting there... and yeh, stuck rockbox on last night, charged up for 2 hours last night and listened all day today, battery is still good... charging up propperly now, have to see how long it'll last
21:22:28Slasherilinuxstb: dvb streams aspect ratio at least mid-stream
21:22:35Slasheri+change
21:22:59Slasheribut never heard about changing resolution..
21:23:14*amiconn is staring at the magic addresses and values in lcd-color_nano.c and lcd-gray.c and cursing portalplayer for being so opensource unfriendly :(
21:24:18NET||abuseis there a way to get the file browser to just play a directory and it's subdirectories? rather than having to go into a directory and play an individual file..
21:24:50SlasheriNET||abuse: find the recursive option..
21:24:55NET||abuserecursive :) hmmm
21:25:03NET||abusemanual...
21:25:30Slasheriand then just insert a directory to playlist
21:25:40Slasherisame works for db mode also
21:25:43NET||abuseand the one thing i got stung with today... wma support... what can be done? or is it just not a good thing :)
21:25:51z0deNET||abuse: hold down select key
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21:26:39NET||abuseholding it down, yeh that's a good plan :)
21:26:56bluebrotherLlorean: just read about the theme contest. How about the customizeable icons?
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21:32:00NET||abuseso anyone know anything about wma support ?
21:33:57Lloreanbluebrother: If they include some, fine, if they don't and the theme looks okay, fine as well
21:34:54linuxstbSlasheri: I've never seen it either, but I've also never read anything that says it's illegal...
21:35:12linuxstbNET||abuse: Someone is going to work on WMA support this summer as part of the google summer of code.
21:35:42NET||abuseahhhhh, cool, google being all altruistic
21:36:15NET||abusewell, then for now.. i guess i should prolly just wipe or somehow convert all these darn wma's :)
21:36:20NET||abuseto ogg
21:36:27NET||abuseor should i maybe aim for flac..
21:36:34NET||abuseonly got a 4GB ipod though :(
21:36:57 Quit spiorf (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:37:39NET||abuseheh, funny, google'd wma to mp3, get lots of commercial options, wma to ogg, or wma to flac lotsa free options... guess which one wins ;)
21:39:56linuxstbNET||abuse: If you have the original CDs, you'll be much better off re-ripping than converting...
21:39:58PaulJamNET||abuse: if you have access to the original CDs i would suggest you to rip them again instead of transcoding.
21:40:04linuxstb;)
21:40:21*amiconn starts to understand how the (grayscale) lcd controller is hooked up to the pp in the ipods...
21:40:40NET||abusehehe, no, don't unfortunately, they're either cd's i ripped years back and they've floated from pc to pc with me over a few years (so i've lost most of my cd collection) or they were friends files :)
21:40:49amiconnStrange thing is that the pp5022 does it differently from the pp5020
21:41:26amiconnpp5020 seems to use 8 bit parallel, while pp5022 seems to use serial transfer with the p->s conversion built into the pp
21:42:33Lloreanbluebrother: To me the most important thing is the WPS, the rest is optional, but would be nice.
21:42:42amiconnIf we would find the clock register setting and the relevant bits, it should be possible to double the framerate on pp5022, and get the same (or nearly the same) framerate for all cpu clocks
21:42:51NET||abusescrew it i'm tired, gonna go play a game of day of defeat.. thanks for the tips guys :)
21:43:00bluebrothermaybe it would be nice to mention it in your announcement post?
21:43:03NET||abusewhat do you all think of this tool? http://www.litexmedia.com/audio_wizard/
21:43:17amiconnI don't know how to speed things up on pp5020, but then I don't know how fast things are running on them
21:43:20linuxstbamiconn: Reading the product briefs, the PP502x chips have 1, 4 and 8-bit interfaces.
21:43:21NET||abusehmm, no nix version and just noticed the pay options on the right.. never mnid :)
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21:44:15*amiconn would love to see LcdFrameRate results for Mini G1, iPod G4 grayscale and iPod G3
21:44:20ColdSphinX^bluebrother: was it too big for your eyes? :)
21:44:34bluebrotherColdSphinX^, yes :P
21:44:44linuxstbNET||abuse: If you're using unix, just can just use something like mplayer to convert to wav, and then encode with the encoder of your choice. Or maybe foobar2000 will do the conversion - it works fine with WINE.
21:45:00bluebrotherI am usually distracted by gib letters because it's mostly advertisments or similar ;-)
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21:45:39NET||abusehmm, havn't gotten round to setting up wine this time round,, havn't found anything i need it for urgently
21:45:48amiconnlinuxstb: Btw, the conclusion that Mini G2 uses serial transfer is from lcd-gray.c lines 99 and 113 and the HD66753 datasheet page 45
21:46:20Lloreanbluebrother: Mentioned iconsets and fonts.
21:46:29bluebrotherLlorean: :)
21:46:30amiconnCompare the (0x740000 | data) resp. (0x760000 | data) with the start byte format...
21:47:15linuxstbamiconn: Is that datasheet on the wiki?
21:47:59amiconnHmm, it's not...
21:48:09amiconnThere is also no column for the grayscale ipods...
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21:51:49amiconnlinuxstb: http://ipodlinux.sourceforge.net/download/ehd66753.pdf
21:52:28amiconnThat's not the version I have (mine has proper bookmarks) but the page number matches
21:53:52linuxstbThanks.,
21:54:10amiconnAh, here is the better one: http://www.optrex.com/SiteImages/PartList/CONTROLLER/HD66753e.pdf
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21:54:35Domonokydoes anybody know if a h120, bricked by wrong power connection, is likely to have the Harddrive intact ?
21:54:47Domonokyso i could rescue the music ?
21:54:54linuxstbamiconn: That second one is only half the size as well...
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21:57:13amiconnDomonoky: Not sure. I think LinusN might know
21:57:35BagderDomonoky: I believe it is likely to, yes
21:57:53BiptoNlinuxstb i want to record mono, it defaults to the right channel is there anyway to use the left instead?
21:58:14BiptoNwhat file would i have to edit in the source? do you know off hand?
21:58:29Domonokythx, so i will try to get the necessary tools to rescue the data.. :-)
22:00
22:00:01linuxstbBiptoN: Sorry, no I don't know.
22:00:21amiconnlinuxstb: Hmm, and there seems to be some accelerated output facility in the pp using a 16 bit counter (deducing from lcd-color_nano.c)
22:00:41amiconnNow if I knew the typical register aliasing on pp... preglow?
22:00:50BiptoNthank you any hoot ;)
22:01:13*amiconn suspects that the lcd output registers might actually be the same on color and grayscale ipods
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22:15:43mr_pinkhi, I've just moved back into my room at uni and the firewall (i assume) here is stopping me from connecting to the svn server. I've asked the computer office and they're being useless as usual, just wondering if anyone here might have any suggestions on getting round this?
22:16:07Bagdermr_pink: get a recent tarball
22:16:32Bagderwe should work on getting http:// access up one of these days
22:17:00mr_pinkcheers, ill make do with using tarballs for now then. I didn't get on with them for some reason last time i tried
22:17:28 Quit webguest64 ("CGI:IRC")
22:17:41Bagdersometimes they lack a file or two
22:17:46Bagderdue to sloppiness
22:17:58Bagderbut if you get problems, just yell and we'll fix
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22:24:09z0de:(
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22:24:16z0demy x5 still wont boot/charge/load
22:25:03PaulJamdoes the x5 have a reset button?
22:25:20*z0de looks
22:25:25pixelmayes
22:25:27z0deyes
22:25:57PaulJammaybe rockbox just froze with the backlight off
22:26:21z0debut them holding off switch up would turn it off
22:26:52z0dereset does nothing :(
22:27:19Bagderso what happens when you insert the charger?
22:27:22z0denothing
22:27:30Bagderthen something is broken
22:27:33Bagderhw wise
22:27:38z0de:(
22:27:50z0deit just cut out in my pocket
22:28:23 Join TrueJournals [0] (n=aimjourn@c-24-12-147-61.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
22:28:25Bagderthat's out of control for Rockbox and just boots into a charger mode
22:28:52z0dethough so, i was just hoping someone knew what i could do
22:29:27Bagderverify that your charger still works
22:29:55Bagderis it likely to still have charge in the battery?
22:30:27z0deyup
22:30:27mr_pinkhmm, same thing i got last time i tried- when i run configure, i get permission denied :S im using VMware
22:30:34z0defullcharge last night
22:30:53Bagderz0de: and when you press power-on, what happens?
22:31:04z0denothing.
22:31:19Bagdermr_pink: does the configure script have the +x flags on it?
22:31:35z0dethe player does nothing regardless of what i plug/press
22:31:36Bagdermr_pink: try running it with "sh ../tools/configure"
22:32:01Bagderz0de: perhaps the battery is loose or something
22:32:18amiconnThe reset button should power off the X5 even if it's completely hung and the charger isn't connected. With the charger connected, reset should cause it to reboot into cowon charging mode
22:33:11z0dereset did nothing, but im not sure if im pushing it far enough
22:33:18z0dehow would i check the battery?
22:33:47BagderI don't know, probably open up the player and check
22:33:54z0dek, defently pressed reset now
22:33:57z0deit clicked
22:34:02z0dedoes nothing
22:35:40amiconnThe reset button doesn't need to be pushed far, and not hard as well. It's similar to the normal buttons
22:36:02amiconnBut it's possible to miss the reset button in the hole, I just tried
22:36:25 Join Domonoky_ [0] (n=Domonoky@p549AF7F5.dip.t-dialin.net)
22:36:25amiconnYou should feel a slight click when you push it (like the record/play buttons)
22:36:30 Part Llorean
22:37:01mr_pinkBadger: That did it- whats different from using svn here then?
22:38:06 Part TrueJournals
22:38:21Bagdermr_pink: for some reason you didn't get the execute flag set with the tarball, but other than that you can't update the source code with a handy svn command building and everything is identical
22:38:55 Join crop [0] (i=95e13cb8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-ee370f89ee81d441)
22:39:11 Quit merbanan (Remote closed the connection)
22:39:32 Join zylche [0] (n=wheee@82-41-83-91.cable.ubr01.dund.blueyonder.co.uk)
22:39:43cropamiconn: nice correction of sim io!
22:39:50 Quit zylche (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22:42:06 Quit desowin ("use linux")
22:46:36 Join skghaskghas [0] (i=z0de@80-194-233-59.cable.ubr01.enfi.blueyonder.co.uk)
22:46:46 Nick skghaskghas is now known as z0de0 (i=z0de@80-194-233-59.cable.ubr01.enfi.blueyonder.co.uk)
22:46:49z0de0hi
22:46:54z0de0my net droped out :(
22:47:09z0de0lol im still here
22:47:23z0de0can you kick z0de so i can get my nick back
22:47:44Bagderkicking doesn't help
22:48:10z0de0no?
22:48:14Bagderno
22:48:30z0de0so how do i get my name back?
22:48:44pixelmayou are registered so you can do that yourself - "/msg nickserv ghost <ghostnick> password"
22:48:49z0de0i am
22:49:06z0de0so kick z0de (whos me) so i can /nick z0de and then send the pass
22:49:29Bagderz0de: read pixelma's message again
22:49:44z0de0lol
22:49:45Bagderand again: kicking doesn't help
22:49:59z0de0i suck at reading today, thanks for being patient
22:50:21 Quit z0de (Nick collision from services.)
22:50:26 Nick z0de0 is now known as z0de (i=z0de@80-194-233-59.cable.ubr01.enfi.blueyonder.co.uk)
22:50:41z0de\o/
22:51:19z0deso any more ideas on what i can do with the x5?
22:52:01cropI get compile error when building debug sim for gigabeat under cygwin:
22:52:03cropmake[1]: *** No rule to make target `/cygdrive/c/work/rockbox/cvs/rockbox/firmware/target/arm/gigabeat/meg-fx/button-target.h', needed by `/cygdrive/c/work/rockbox/cvs/rockbox/build_gigabeat_debug/firmware/backlight.o'.
22:52:21cropWhat's wrong? I did svn update and ../tools/configure
22:52:31amiconncrop: For gigabeat you need to reconfigure due to changed folder names
22:52:45Bagdercrop: did a make clean too?
22:52:54cropBagder: no
22:53:02Bagdertry that
22:53:27cropBagder: already done and kicked make once more
22:53:47 Quit Domonoky (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:54:30amiconnBagder: It would be really nice if the <img> tags on http://build.rockbox.org/ had proper width and height attributed
22:54:34amiconn*attributes
22:54:40Bagdertrue
22:55:10amiconnThe tables are jumping all around the screen when (re)loading and gfx aren't cached
22:55:11 Join Llorean [0] (n=Llorean@rockbox/administrator/Llorean)
22:56:00Bagderamiconn: checked the buildmaster logs tonight? they should the potential for parallell build attempts
22:56:16Bagder"they show"
22:57:42Bagderand look
22:57:45 Quit mr_pink (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22:57:47Bagderthe reds are gone! ;-)
22:57:54 Join DrMoos [0] (i=moos@m135.net81-66-158.noos.fr)
22:58:02preglowwhats the status of rombox on iriver, btw?
22:58:08preglowiriver being hxx0
22:58:22 Quit moos (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22:58:37Bagderon h120 it works I believe
22:58:48preglowas in it executes from flash too? no ram copying?
22:58:54Bagderah
22:59:12Bagderuhm, I'm not really keeping up with the details there so I better shut up
22:59:57amiconnpreglow: I think it does, but I didn't try it yet
23:00
23:00:35preglowme neither
23:00:43amiconnThere is no official bootloader supporting that yet, and I rather don't want to brick my H180, being my swcodec target with the largest storage capacity
23:01:00amiconnMaybe I'll try shortly before, or at, devcon
23:01:50heanolThe playback is choppy on my sansa e280.. is this a known issue?
23:01:58heanolI haven't found a pattern for it really
23:02:00heanolSome songs play fine
23:02:23amiconnBagder: hmmmmm :\
23:02:39cropBagder: gigabeat build succeeded! Thanks!
23:02:51*amiconn would prefer if the reds would be gone for real rather than hidden :/
23:03:03Lloreanpreglow: There's a version that executes from ROM yes.
23:03:14LloreanAt least, to my understanding there is
23:03:18*Llorean hasn't tried it either.
23:03:28Bagderamiconn: sure, but they won't for quite some time more
23:03:32amiconnpreglow: Do you remember the typical register aliasing on pp?
23:03:38Bagderand they're only in the way until then
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23:04:54*amiconn can't see why they would be in the way...
23:05:02pixelmawhy are they in the way? Seems like only a few people cared anyway... :(
23:05:13amiconnThe 17 yellows are more annoying...
23:05:20Bagderbecause errors that aren't taken care of makes the actual errors harder to see
23:05:29Bagderand clearly, nobody cares about rombox errors
23:05:34Bagderor at least not enough
23:05:45BagderI'm annoyed by the yellows too
23:06:26Bagderonce someone actually tries to get rombox to work we can bring them back
23:06:38Bagderlike the gmini port ;-)
23:08:17BagderI'm actually in favour of just removing that #warning
23:08:21*amiconn thinks a working gmini port (gmini 1xx and 2xx) is very unlikely
23:08:32Bagderoh yes
23:08:37Bagdervery very unlikely
23:08:39LloreanBagder: I agree, I don't think anyone's going to forget that dual core support isn't working yet.
23:09:02amiconnMuch more unlikely than linuxstb finsihing either one of his started-but-not-really-pushing-forward ports
23:10:28Bagderwhat would you say would be a good heuristic on what build to run in parallell when a server goes idle and there are N unfinished builds?
23:10:53Bagderone that has spent a long time or one that was just recently started?
23:11:28amiconnHmm....
23:11:44amiconnMaybe one that already runs unusually long
23:12:22amiconnBut that would require to maintain a table of build speeds for each build (or at least each build category) per build server
23:12:50Bagderyeah, and the first idle server may go idle before anyone has had time to go "unusually long"
23:13:10Bagderof course depending on what that limit would be
23:13:40BagderI think I would prefer a simpler approach
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23:13:55***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:14:42amiconnFirst, I'd think we should start with the slow builds (swcodec sim, targets) in general, and work towards the fast ones (bootloaders)
23:14:56 Quit x1jmp (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:15:48Bagderwell, I checked a few recent logs and it is quite clear that the bootloaders, sims or sh targets are never the last jobs to finish
23:16:41amiconnStarting with the slow ones should help that slow build servers don't extend build times that much
23:17:16amiconnIf a slow build server gets a slow build after a fast one, chances are high that it will need longer than all other build servers
23:17:29Bagderyes
23:17:49amiconnBut if it starts with the slow one, all other build servers will have finished the other builds when the slow server finishes its single build
23:17:53Bagderbut if you check the logs, you'll see that builds times vary a lot
23:18:04amiconnYes, depending how much changed
23:18:13Bagdernot really
23:18:18amiconnChanging .h files increase build times
23:18:20BagderI guess more on server load
23:18:25Bagderand possibly network situation
23:18:58Bagderbut of course amount of changes is significant as well
23:19:17Bagdermy point being: I want to avoid to guess which servers that are fast or slow
23:19:40amiconnyes
23:20:19amiconnIf we start with the slow builds, chances are that the faster ones are built concurrently because they are started nearer to the end
23:21:31Bagderwell, we can see that the sims are prefered
23:21:35amiconnThe I would think starting with recently scheduled builds for concurrent builds and working towards the earlier ones might be a good idea
23:22:01 Quit crop ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
23:22:12Bagderyes, I think so too
23:23:08amiconnDoes the concurrent build system allow to stop all other builds when the first server is done with it?
23:23:38Bagderyes it will do that
23:23:45amiconnok
23:23:52 Quit ColdSphinX^ ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
23:25:20amiconnUnder normal circumstances starting most recent builds concurrently should yield slightly faster overall build time, because the fastest / least loaded servers will return them, and the other ones will do something for their ccaches
23:25:51amiconnAnd in the case of a crashed server / broken connection the concurrent builds will save us from stalling
23:26:01Bagdertrue
23:26:52*amiconn wonders whether it'd also be possible to protect against broken server configurations
23:27:04Bagderthe idea is to keep all servers busy until the last build is done
23:27:17amiconnThat has nothing to do with the concurrency system, just checking things like installed compilers
23:27:39amiconnMissing compilers happened more than once recently...
23:27:41Bagderyeah, but that wouldn't have to be done for each build
23:27:58amiconnNo, just at the start of a round
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23:29:33XavierGrpreglow: rombox works on H120/H140 like a charm for me
23:29:40 Join twenty6ix [0] (i=t26-@CPE000ae65fa2ad-CM001692fb7540.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
23:29:48XavierGrSlasheri did a fine work on that
23:30:24twenty6ixhey guys, bit of a dumb question :/ but i've been looking around the Rockbox site for a recording tutorial or something of the like and can't seem to find one, can anyone point me in the right direction?
23:30:25XavierGrthough amiconn is right that there is no official bootloader that allows to flash rockbox
23:30:55XavierGron the other hand the bootloader slasheri provided in the wiki page is quite valid at least for H120/H140 targets
23:31:22XavierGrI think that flashing for H100s isn't enabled because Slasheri didn't have a target to test
23:32:32amiconnhmmmmm
23:33:07amiconnFlashing an X5 or M5 should in fact be simple (provided we keep the cowon loader as we do now)
23:33:23elinenbehmmm... the default keyboard is getting to small on the more modern targets.
23:33:35pixelmatwenty6ix: I only know of the triggered recording manual in the wiki - the manual itself doesn't tell much about recording (but might give a start) and maybe you can find something in the forums
23:33:41elinenbeI am searching the database, and it is dificult to see on the gigabeat
23:34:09 Join Thundercloud_ [0] (n=thunderc@82.152.220.65)
23:34:13twenty6ixi checked the forums... hmm... i do know that plugging a 1/4" cable from my sound card to my iPod yields no results
23:34:14amiconnelinenbe: Load a .kbd, then it uses the UI font instead of the sysfont
23:35:43pixelmatwenty6ix: no idea about recording on ipods, sorry...
23:36:25Lloreantwenty6ix: Which iPod?
23:36:54twenty6ix5.5g
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23:37:00 Join TrueJournals [0] (n=aimjourn@c-24-12-147-61.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
23:37:03LloreanAnd set to "Mic" or "Line-in"?
23:37:06twenty6ixLine-in
23:37:09LloreanDo Mic
23:37:10twenty6ixi tried both
23:37:19LloreanLine-in is for the dock port
23:37:22twenty6ixi didn't actually try saving and listening but i say no move in the analyzer
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23:37:26twenty6ix*saw, sorry
23:37:37twenty6ixor the meter, rather
23:38:19twenty6ixand coming from an amp with the recording volume way up i figure i should see some move in the meter
23:38:50preglowamiconn: can't remember the aliasing, no
23:39:02LloreanI'm not even sure the 5G have an input in the mic port, maybe they don't.
23:39:12PaulJami thought the g5 ipod wasn't able to record through the headphone connector
23:39:15twenty6ixah
23:39:19twenty6ixthat's possible
23:39:24twenty6ixthanks for the help guys :)
23:39:34twenty6ixi wish there was a way to customize the menu in Rockbox like there is on the Apple firmware
23:39:48LloreanPaulJam: I know the nano can't, I don't know for sure either way on the 5G.
23:43:31 Quit twenty6ix ()
23:47:40 Quit Thundercloud (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:51:14 Join amiconn_ [0] (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn)
23:51:56 Join knapp [0] (n=knapp@67.132.247.218)
23:58:14Bagderstarting now, the delta table should use the 'actual size' value from rockbox-info.txt
23:58:31preglowso no more crazy-ass padding error from the mi4 targets?
23:58:38Bagderright
23:58:39 Nick Spec is now known as x-spec-t (n=nwheeler@ubuntu/member/spec)

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