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#rockbox log for 2007-04-23

00:00:07The-Comilerpixelma: namil-8.fnt
00:00:26pixelmaah ok... 8 point should work
00:03:03The-ComilerI'll try it with the svn-build soon, but atm I load a backup to my ipod (6.5GB) |-)
00:04:27 Join webguest21 [0] (i=586922ca@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-7aa0047f03e44c7c)
00:05:09 Quit webguest21 (Client Quit)
00:05:22bluebrotherdid your disk crash? Restoring a complete backup of the player?
00:08:40The-Comilerbluebrother: No, I make a backup from my Datas
00:09:04The-Comiler*datas
00:09:07 Quit Nico_P (Remote closed the connection)
00:09:18bluebrotherah. I usually do it the other way: I have all music on the pc and copy the files I want to listen to ...
00:10:04The-Comilerbluebrother: I make the backup, because I like to install a new version of Ubuntu Linux
00:10:23The-Comilerah, it's finished
00:10:23 Quit saratoga ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
00:11:31bluebrotherlooks like it gets interesting now ;-)
00:12:11The-ComilerIt works! :)
00:12:45bluebrothernice.
00:12:54 Quit ender` (" Smoking is one of the leading causes of statistics.")
00:13:57The-Comilera second question: may I use the rockbox-logo for my rockbox-podcast?
00:15:25 Quit Juice^ ("Leaving")
00:16:28 Join midgey [0] (n=tjross@markely-164-75.reshall.umich.edu)
00:17:44CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
00:17:44*bluebrother doesn't know about that legal stuff
00:17:57chrisjs169how could i make the scrollwheel light up on hdd activity like in this build - http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=9581.0
00:18:03chrisjs169(sansa)
00:18:39pixelmaI believe there is a patch in the tracker (not sure though)
00:18:42bluebrotherby appling the correct patch
00:18:53bluebrotherask him about the sources or tracker entries.
00:18:56chrisjs169ok
00:19:25*bluebrother doesn't understand why those "patchers" seldomly mention the tracker task number
00:19:36 Join ptw419 [0] (i=ptw419@216-188-249-122.dyn.grandenetworks.net)
00:19:37 Quit Thundercloud (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:19:42ptw419gigaeat
00:19:48ptw419oops wrong window
00:20:07 Quit robin0800 (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- IRC with a difference")
00:20:29 Join moos [0] (i=moos@m135.net81-66-158.noos.fr)
00:22:07pixelmaptw419: hungry? ;)
00:22:27 Join barrywardell [0] (n=barrywar@194.46.168.17)
00:23:00 Quit The-Comiler ("CGI:IRC")
00:23:28amiconnweeeeee
00:23:52*amiconn just recorded is first few seconds of pcm wav on an archos recorder :D
00:25:31bluebrothercool :)
00:26:00 Join Guile [0] (n=Guile@84.4.25.252)
00:26:57amiconnIt's still buggy (clicky, and swapping bytes after a few seconds, yielding white noise)
00:27:51amiconnAlso, nearly everything is hardcoded atm (44.1kHz, stereo, 16bit, fixed gain), and there's no real buffer handling
00:28:11chrisjs169couldn't find anything in the tracker (searched for sansa, virtual, scrollwheel, hdd)
00:29:48pixelmame neither, guess I didn't remember correctly. Sorry
00:30:49chrisjs169no problem. If only that 'patcher' was still active
00:31:35 Part Hammer89
00:32:59 Quit bluebrother ("Leaving")
00:33:33 Quit annulus_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:35:09barrywardellchrisjs169: JdGordon had that working earlier IIRC
00:36:04chrisjs169barrywardell: hmm...any idea where I could find that? IRC logs maybe? (assuming it was on here)
00:36:52 Quit Siltaar (Remote closed the connection)
00:37:09barrywardellyeah, he was talking about it on IRC today or yesterday. not sure if he posted a patch though
00:37:53chrisjs169barrywardell: ok, thanks, i'll try checking the logs to see if there's anything
00:40:43 Quit obo ("bye")
00:41:11pixelmahah... digged it up for you (check log of 26th of march
00:42:16pixelmachrisjs169: at around 16:44.... )
00:44:12barrywardellspeaking of digging in the logs, is there any better way than google for searching them?
00:44:43markunI don't think so, but it would be very nice
00:44:44PaulJamyou could download them and use something like grep
00:45:20pixelmayes that's what I have here - downloaded the raw logs and grep
00:45:39barrywardellI think it would be handy to have a search function on the Rockbox site. Things like sorting by date would be handy
00:45:44markunpixelma: how big are they all together?
00:45:52pixelmaraw logs are here now http://www.rockbox.org/irc/listlogs.pl
00:46:10barrywardellit's not ideal to have to download all the logs just to search for one thing though
00:46:31 Quit DataGhost (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:46:40pixelmamarkun: there are about 150 MB atm
00:48:25 Quit idnar (Nick collision from services.)
00:48:28 Join idnar_ [0] (i=mithrand@unaffiliated/idnar)
00:49:07pixelmabarrywardell: it's not that bad once you have started doing that and only have to update from time to time
00:49:51barrywardelltrue, but it would still be easier for lazy people like me to not have to
00:50:09 Join kubiixaka [0] (n=Miranda@mos-81-27-201-28.karneval.cz)
00:50:34chrisjs169pixelma: looks like it's it, thanks
00:51:11pixelmawell yes, a search on the site would be nice too
00:52:25markunzgrep looks useful..
00:56:04 Join Thundercloud [0] (n=thunderc@82.152.208.245)
00:57:49 Quit moos ("Glory to Rockbox")
00:58:21 Join pearldiver [0] (n=say@cpe-72-225-231-80.nyc.res.rr.com)
00:58:25 Join DataGhost [0] (i=dataghos@ip3e832ea5.speed.planet.nl)
01:00
01:04:30 Join JdGordon [0] (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
01:05:20amiconnThe white noise was just a silly mistake by me... :)
01:06:23 Quit kubiix (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:06:28 Quit thebigearl (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:07:39JdGordonhey amiconn, did my menu commit last night fix te bugs?
01:08:45amiconnyes
01:11:27JdGordonthought it might.. such a silly mistake :p
01:11:35 Join Nico_P [0] (n=nicolas@jau31-3-82-239-20-145.fbx.proxad.net)
01:11:56JdGordonoh well... hopefully the menu code and the icon code is all stable now and I can work on not failing uni :p
01:13:22amiconnThe wav icon on archos looks like gibberish... but it worked a few days ago...
01:13:22 Quit miepchen^schlaf (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:13:27 Join miepchen^schlaf [0] (n=hihi@p54BF62A2.dip.t-dialin.net)
01:13:58amiconn(popped up while testing wav recording)
01:14:31JdGordonso much for the icon code being finished then :p
01:14:34 Quit lee-qid ("aufwiederbyebientotsayonara")
01:14:45JdGordonarchos doesnt have wav as an inbuilt type right?
01:14:52amiconncorrect
01:14:59***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:15:09amiconnNot yet, that is
01:15:26JdGordonusing the default icons for main and viewers?
01:15:35amiconnyup
01:16:43 Quit PaulJam (".")
01:18:24JdGordonhmm... just looked at the sim... its not showin any icon for .wav
01:18:39 Join Alonea [0] (n=chatzill@24-117-195-16.cpe.cableone.net)
01:18:39JdGordonbut it is registered and tries to load wav2wv.rock..
01:18:44amiconnNo, only the target does
01:19:02amiconnIt's associated with wavplay, which can't work on the sim
01:19:19JdGordonthe icon should show up though
01:20:40amiconnHmmmm.... it's not gibberish, but not the right icon either
01:21:11amiconnIt shows icon #1 (roughly looks like a waveform when enlarged, but like gibberish on the target lcd)
01:21:14amiconn#10
01:21:34amiconnIt should show icon #9 (double note with 2 bars)
01:22:50 Quit Thundercloud_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:22:51amiconnSO the code is okay, but the icon isn't what I'd expect...
01:27:11JdGordonyou might have to reorder viewers.config...
01:27:20JdGordonim actually surprised its showing any icon..
01:27:43amiconnwhy?
01:27:53JdGordonbecause the fist two icons for wav are -
01:28:02amiconnThey aren't
01:28:02 Quit Guile ("KVIrc 3.2.0 'Realia'")
01:28:09JdGordonwhen the viewers.config file is read it only reads the first icon for an extension
01:28:21amiconnThere are just 2 entries for .wav on hwcodec, both linked to icon #10
01:28:45JdGordonoh, hmm... nuts :p
01:28:49amiconnRemember that buildzip.pl cuts lines for non-existing viewers from viewers.config, making it target specific
01:29:03JdGordonyep, forgot that
01:29:30JdGordonok I gotta get readyf or uni now.. ttyl
01:31:14yuriksthe menu icons are always black (don't change with the fg color), is that normal behaviour? or a bug?
01:31:32Lloreanyuriks: Normal right now.
01:31:40yuriksO_o
01:31:40LloreanNot desired, but expected.
01:32:26LloreanWell, technically they're color icons, they're just one-color. Which means they don't get treated as "mono" like they did before.
01:33:00yurikshrm
01:33:11yuriksso someone just needs to provide color icons?
01:38:47 Part Llorean
01:43:01amiconnNow the wav recording is glitch free ... :)
01:43:39amiconnJust need to fix buffer saving... it now runs away on Ondio
01:44:18amiconn(increasing size with each loop iteration, dropping parts of the recording when exceeding buffer size)
01:52:45 Join jhulst [0] (n=jhulst@71-10-136-176.dhcp.aldl.mi.charter.com)
01:52:56Nico_Pamiconn: did you see my question on sscanf ? about the problems I had with it on the sim
01:57:46 Join Llorean [0] (n=Llorean@rockbox/administrator/Llorean)
01:59:05amiconnThe sim is supposed to use the rockbox implementation of standard functions whenever possible
02:00
02:02:49Nico_Pamiconn: the problem is it uses it for things not related to rockbox
02:03:01iNSOMNiAXI have encoded some videos using winavi with the suggested encoding settings. The video plays fine for the first 3 minutes after that sound goes out but video continues then I stop playing video and player crashes. Any way to fix it?
02:03:03Nico_Paccording to the backtrace I got
02:06:53amiconn?
02:06:54LloreaniNSOMNiAX: Does that problem have with the official Rockbox sample video (Elephant's Dream)?
02:07:10 Quit Alonea (Remote closed the connection)
02:07:13iNSOMNiAXlet me try it
02:08:04 Quit entheh ("^~")
02:16:56 Join YouCeyE [0] (n=YouCeyE@unaffiliated/youceye)
02:19:10 Quit Llorean ("Leaving.")
02:26:38Nico_Pamiconn: there is a call to the rockbox sscanf by a function in libasound.so
02:27:08Nico_Pi.e. the rockbox sscanf is used not only by rockbox code, which is a problem
02:27:40amiconnAh... so sscanf is a candidate for prefix mangling
02:27:58amiconn(like open, close, read etc)
02:28:37Nico_Pamiconn: what is prefix mangling ?
02:28:45 Join jhulst_ [0] (n=jhulst@71-10-136-176.dhcp.aldl.mi.charter.com)
02:29:44 Quit jhulst (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:30:43 Join webguest16 [0] (i=43ad8a99@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-24a6f60bb227be6c)
02:31:03webguest16hi is anyone here?
02:31:31webguest16hmm....
02:31:37Nico_Pwebguest16: hi
02:31:41webguest16oh
02:31:43webguest16hi
02:31:53webguest16hey i got a question?
02:32:04webguest16can u plz help me with something?
02:32:20webguest16i'm trying to install doom on my ipod
02:32:32Nico_Pask the question... if someone knows the answer they'll give it
02:32:37webguest16but i'm not really sure how can u please help?
02:32:59Nico_Pwebguest16: all you need is a .wad file in the right place
02:33:13webguest16ok where can i get that?
02:33:22webguest16i got like 2 of them
02:33:25webguest16i think...
02:33:34Nico_Pwebguest16: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/PluginDoom
02:33:43webguest16where do they have to be?
02:33:50webguest16like wut folder?
02:34:00webguest16it says missing base wad
02:34:08Nico_Pwebguest16: they have to be in /.rockbox/doom/
02:34:17Nico_Pall the info you need is in the page I linked
02:34:19webguest16is that a folder?
02:34:33webguest16kk
02:34:39Nico_Pwebguest16: yes, it's a "doom" subfolder of your ".rockbox" folder
02:34:50 Quit barrywardell ()
02:35:09webguest16ill try it ....not very good with computers.....sorry
02:35:18 Join jhulst [0] (n=jhulst@71-10-136-176.dhcp.aldl.mi.charter.com)
02:39:09 Join Alonea [0] (n=chatzill@24-117-195-16.cpe.cableone.net)
02:39:24webguest16ok i tried it again.....and no luck not very good im not very good at this can u please help me a little more
02:40:13Nico_Pwebguest16: are you sure you have the right wad files ? where did you put them ?
02:40:47webguest16i downloaded these 2 things called (rockdoom.wad and doom1.wad)
02:41:01webguest16and i put them in the rocks folder
02:41:23webguest16is that it?
02:41:27webguest16no right?
02:41:31webguest16i suck!
02:42:08sneakumswhich gigabeat(s) be upgraded to 80gb? is the f40 one?
02:42:45webguest16whoa!! i dont really understand that .....plz explain a little more?
02:43:10webguest16i got a 30gb ipod
02:43:15webguest16thats all i no
02:43:26webguest16a 30gb ipod video
02:44:12webguest16about how many gigabytes do i need for this?
02:44:22webguest16i got like 8gb free
02:44:31Nico_Pwebguest16: what sneakumssaid was unrelated to doom
02:44:39webguest16oh
02:44:41webguest16ok
02:45:14webguest16so those are the only thing i downloaded
02:45:22webguest16where do they have to be?
02:45:33Nico_Pwebguest16: as I said, in /.rockbox/doom/
02:45:51webguest16i put them in the rocks folder
02:45:57webguest16is that right?
02:46:00webguest16no?
02:46:02Nico_Por, if you are using windows, X:\.rockbox\doom\ where X is your ipod
02:46:06Nico_Pwebguest16: no
02:46:17webguest16thought so.....
02:46:49webguest16are they the only thing i need to download?
02:46:55webguest16only those 2?
02:47:07Nico_Pwebguest16: yes
02:47:13webguest16YES!!!
02:47:36Nico_Pthen you run the doom plugin from the plugins menu
02:48:01 Quit jhulst_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:48:04webguest16ok uuuuuhhhhhh......so whre can i put those file thing or whatever they are?in the rocks folder where all the other games are?
02:48:42Nico_Pwebguest16: what do you mean ?
02:48:58webguest16yeah i put them whrer the other games are
02:49:10webguest16the rocks folder
02:49:15Nico_Pif you are asking where to put the wad files, I already told you where... and that's all you need to do
02:49:25webguest16kk
02:50:12webguest16yeah the thing is i dont see any folder called ( /.rockbox/doom/)
02:50:24Nico_Pwebguest16: you need to create it
02:50:40webguest16wherre do i need to create it?
02:50:48webguest16in the rocks folder
02:50:59webguest16where the games sare?
02:51:01Nico_Pyou need to create a doom subfolder in the .rockbox folder
02:51:12Nico_Pwhat is it whith the rockx folder ?
02:51:28webguest16ok and its called doom right thats the name of the folder?
02:51:37Nico_Pthe rocks folder is where the PLUGINS are, not the games
02:51:44Nico_Pwebguest16: yes
02:51:58webguest16ok
02:52:04webguest16let me try again
02:55:53webguest16ok hold on let me check if its right now
02:57:16webguest16ok i'm on the game and .........why is it oplaying by itself ?
02:57:29Nico_Pwebguest16: that's the demo mode
02:57:56webguest16ok then what do i do? i just clicked play game
02:58:06Nico_Pwebguest16: that ought to be it
02:58:19webguest16ok let me start over
02:59:32 Part pixelma
02:59:57webguest16nope DAMN!!!!! I REALLY SUCK !!!!!!..........its playing by itself again........and i clicked on play game "not on demo or demos or whatever"
03:00
03:01:42 Join p [0] (i=ptw419@216-188-249-122.dyn.grandenetworks.net)
03:01:44webguest16uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.................anybody on?????
03:01:59kkurbjunwhich player are you using?
03:02:06webguest16oh hi
03:02:13webguest16oplayer?
03:02:23webguest16what u mean?
03:02:36 Join zerro129 [0] (n=bla@213-94-147-187.b-ras1.lmk.limerick.eircom.net)
03:02:36kkurbjunipod, gigabeat, h300, etc...
03:03:00webguest16an ipod video 39gb
03:03:04webguest1630gb
03:03:05kkurbjuntoggle hold
03:03:13webguest16kk
03:03:32zerro129hi, i have a 5th gen ipod video, and before i install rockbox i have some quastions
03:03:35kkurbjunwhile its in demo mode
03:03:42kkurbjunand that will bring up the menu in doom
03:03:47webguest16some menu showed up
03:03:50zerro129and i was wondering if someone could help answere them?
03:03:57kkurbjunyep, now select new game
03:04:21webguest16y cant i select anything else/
03:04:24webguest16????
03:04:28webguest16can i?
03:04:33kkurbjunyou can
03:04:33webguest16just axin?
03:04:40webguest16how?
03:04:42 Quit XavierGr (Nick collision from services.)
03:04:45 Join XavierGr [0] (n=xavier@ppp257-124.adsl.forthnet.gr)
03:04:53kkurbjunpress up in the menu to move around
03:05:06 Quit Alonea (Remote closed the connection)
03:05:25zerro129first once rockbox is installed, when i connect my ipod to my pc can i just add mp3 files to the ipod from my desktop, or do i still need to use itunes?
03:05:30webguest16ok i can go up but not down no worries though i can select the other stuff too
03:06:31webguest16ok thanks i can play now
03:06:38webguest16thanks alot
03:06:44webguest16=)
03:07:35zerro129can someone answere my question please?
03:07:43 Join Alonea [0] (n=chatzill@24-117-195-16.cpe.cableone.net)
03:09:03 Quit jhulst (Remote closed the connection)
03:09:03 Quit webguest16 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
03:09:15 Join woodensoul [0] (i=48566014@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-73bd0eeaf7275893)
03:09:50woodensoulHello, can anyone here help me out with Gigabeat boot problems?
03:10:04Aloneawoodensoul: whats wrong?
03:12:45Nico_Pzerro129: no, you don't need itunes
03:13:44panyone have any suggestions for a good linux distro?
03:14:32woodensoulUpdated to the the current build this morning while the player was in the dock. Update went fine. Turned player off and plug icon appeared since it was still plugged in to the AC power. Just tried to turn on the player and it just hangs at the Rockbox boot screen, Rockbox never loads. Plugging into USB does nothing and it doesn't show up in Windows. I had to switch off the battery in order to try again.
03:14:48Thundercloudp: Debian. No contest.
03:15:02***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
03:15:53zerro129thanks Nico_P :)
03:16:03Nico_Pp: *ubuntu
03:16:34Nico_Pwoodensoul: do you have the new bootloader ?
03:16:40pthanks
03:18:17woodensoulI guess there was a new bootloader released yesterday for the Gigabeat that I was unaware of. Would that be why it refuses to boot with the newest build?
03:19:12 Quit ptw419 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
03:21:06 Nick p is now known as ptw419 (i=ptw419@216-188-249-122.dyn.grandenetworks.net)
03:23:48 Quit woodensoul ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
03:24:22 Join woodensoul [0] (i=48566014@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-0e4c5e89e48fbd78)
03:24:46Nico_Pwoodensoul: You need to update the bootloader to be able to use new versions
03:24:58Nico_Pwoodensoul: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/MajorChanges
03:26:52woodensoulI was disconnected if anyone gave me any suggestions... Why is the lag so bad here and why do I constantly get disconnected?
03:27:28woodensoulI can't access the player via USB, how can I update to the new bootloader?
03:27:33Nico_Pwoodensoul: there were no suggestions whil you were offline
03:27:52Nico_Pwoodensoul: you should be able to reach the bootloader usb mode
03:30:31 Quit zerro129 ("-=SysReset 2.53=-")
03:32:47 Quit woodensoul ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
03:33:20 Join woodensoul [0] (i=48566014@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-83ec31ebe8bd5af8)
03:33:54woodensoulDisconnected again. I can't reach bootloader USB mode either. If I plug in the USB and then turn it on, the same happens.
03:33:56 Quit lids (Remote closed the connection)
03:34:16 Join lids [0] (i=lds@gateway/tor/x-584ed1c0126725c0)
03:34:35Nico_Pwoodensoul: then you might need to have the bootloadr restore the original firmware and then connect your gigabeat with that
03:35:05Nico_PI can't remember which key you need to press to get the OF back.. maybe menu of A
03:39:18 Quit woodensoul ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
03:40:35 Join woodensoul [0] (i=48566014@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-6aac0174d7afe403)
03:41:23 Quit sneakums ("Lost terminal")
03:41:58woodensoulTried to hold "A" button while turning it on. Got this message "Error! Failed to load original firmware: file not found. Loading rockbox" Then I plugged in the USB cable. Nothing happened.
03:43:02Nico_Pwoodensoul: you can try holding menu... this should get you in rescue mode
03:43:25Nico_Pthen plug the usb cable (directly, not through the cradle)
03:43:27 Quit spiorf (Remote closed the connection)
03:43:50 Quit Alonea ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.3/2007040314]")
03:45:02woodensoulOK, got rescue mode, but now what? USB is plugged in, but nothing happens
03:46:10Nico_Pwoodensoul: the usb cable is plugged directly in the gigabeat ? no cradle ?
03:46:48 Join LetsTalkPBX [0] (n=LetsTalk@pool-72-95-153-126.pitbpa.east.verizon.net)
03:46:53woodensoulOK, I chose to restore the original kernal and got it to boot to the OF.
03:47:43 Part LetsTalkPBX
03:48:09 Join sneakums [0] (i=sneakums@jenny.ondioline.org)
03:49:58Nico_Pwoodensoul: then you can put the new bootloader exactly like when you first installed rockbox
03:51:25 Quit Thundercloud (Remote closed the connection)
03:51:26woodensoulNico_P: I just updated to the newest bootloader and I'm still getting the same results. It hangs at the Rockbox screen.
03:51:55Nico_Pwoodensoul: have you done the battery ON/OFF trick ?
03:52:10Nico_Pwoodensoul: and what kind of build are you using ?
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03:59:18woodensoulI did do the battery switch step. I'm using the official "current build". And actually now everything is fine. I must have accidentally copied the old bootloader again. This time I made sure to copy the new one. Thanks for your help!
03:59:35Nico_Pwoodensoul: you're welcome
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04:02:41woodensoulBy the way, that's a pretty slick feature to have a rescue mode to allow the original kernal to be restored. Thanks for all you guys do!
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04:19:05deweycooterI have an idea for a new feature - I don't think I've seen it before. Voiceovers - every 3 or 4 songs, play a station identification type file.
04:19:42woodensoulIs there a list of which buttons to press during boot to do certain functions? Such as: VOLUME UP to restore kernal, A to load OF, etc.?
04:20:00deweycooterI've been lurking around in the code base a bit, just wondering if someone might be able to point me in the right direction.
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04:29:37TrueJournalsdeweycooter: unfortunately, I cannot help with that... but, just curious as to why you would want to do that...?
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04:33:22deweycooterTrueJournals: Because I can? :) I'll be playing my music over a pretty powerful system, just a way to personalize it a bit. If you get really curious: http://www.teambadmonkey.com/images/2005/0669243-R1-042-19A.jpg
04:35:08TrueJournalsAh, OK... good luck
04:35:10TrueJournalsgotta go
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05:15:03***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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05:30:39LeetlandonHey, Im having trouble installing patches
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05:32:00LeetlandonHey, Im having trouble installing patches
05:34:30LeetlandonDammit..
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05:45:16joshinYup, I'm inspired to try and help.
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06:30:55LeetlandonHey, im having trouble doing a patch
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06:42:30LeetlandonHello.
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06:47:18LeetlandonHey.
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06:48:39pearldiverLeetlandon just shoot the question / describe your problem
06:48:54pearldiverno need to greet the sleeping crowd 18 times :P
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06:52:05LeetlandonHow do you install plug ins?
06:52:21LeetlandonPatches*
06:52:29scorchewhat plugin are you trying to "install"?
06:52:45scorcheread the wiki page SimpleGuideToCompiling
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06:54:10LeetlandonThanks.
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06:56:46LeetlandonCan you help me walkthrough this?
06:57:12LeetlandonIm trying to install the doom control plugin for the sansa.
06:57:19LeetlandonPatch.
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06:59:03scorchewhy do you need me to provide you a walkthrough?...that page tells you everything you must do...including the exact syntax of the commands
06:59:50scorcheif you wish, i can copy and paste that page to you and call that a walkthrough..
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07:00:57LeetlandonAlright, sorry, I was confused, I got it now.
07:01:13LeetlandonI put the patch in the rockbox dir?
07:01:31scorchedid you even read that page?
07:01:55LeetlandonNever saw anything about it...
07:02:04scorcheabout what?
07:02:32LeetlandonGot it!
07:03:31LeetlandonWait, do I need to redo the entire bootloading process to do this?
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07:03:47scorchedoes it say that in that page?
07:04:51LeetlandonNo clue....
07:05:03scorchethen read the page and find out..
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07:07:55LeetlandonAlrgiht got it....
07:07:57LeetlandonI think.
07:08:16LeetlandonI put in patch -binary.. etc and it just went to a new line, is that good?
07:08:58scorchestop trying to find a workaround
07:09:00scorcheread
07:09:01scorchethe
07:09:02scorchepage
07:10:46Leetlandon Create a new folder for the compiling by typing mkdir folder, where folder is the name of the folder (I tend to call it build). This folder should be inside the Rockbox source folder. Enter that folder by typing cd folder, where folder is the name you chose for the folder In that folder type ../tools/configure which will bring up a list of all possible devices Select your device by typing in the corresponding number Next
07:11:11scorchehave you already done the previous steps?
07:11:13LeetlandonWhere it says ../tools/configure, I get no such file or directory
07:11:23LeetlandonYeah, I have.
07:11:48scorcheyou have set up a cygwin, vmware, or colinux environment and are doing those steps inside that?
07:12:06LeetlandonInside what?
07:12:14LeetlandonYep.
07:12:21scorchethe cygwin, vmware, or colinux environment
07:12:38LeetlandonYeah.
07:13:05LeetlandonWould it matter if the plugin had rockbox/apps/etc and the dir is .rockbox/etc?
07:13:10scorcheand you have aquired the source code through svn or through a tarball?
07:13:58LeetlandonI have the .zip from the daily build.
07:14:36scorchewith the source or the binary?
07:15:05***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
07:15:25Leetlandonbinary.
07:15:50Leetlandonhttp://download.rockbox.org/daily/sansae200/rockbox-sansae200.zip
07:16:15scorcheyou cant do anything with that
07:16:23LeetlandonAlright, what do I use?
07:16:32scorchethat page tells you
07:17:32Leetlandonsvn co svn://svn.rockbox.org/rockbox/trunk rockbox ? is that for all models?
07:17:49scorcheyes...that is the entire source code
07:18:41Leetlandonbash: svn command not found
07:19:12scorcheif you dont have svn, then you didnt install cygwin correctly
07:19:36LeetlandonGot it.
07:20:09LeetlandonSorry for being such a pain, really used to open source stuff
07:21:34scorchethat is fine...all i ask is that you read what i tell you to read and dont assume things, skip directions, or move outside those directions....but then again, if you did that, you wouldnt need any help =P
07:23:46LeetlandonWTF
07:23:56LeetlandonIs there supposed to be Daily commands in cygen?
07:24:04scorchehuh?
07:24:17LeetlandonNow, type daily filename.tar.tar, where filename is the name of the file... obviously
07:24:21Leetlandon?
07:24:46scorchewhere does it say that?
07:25:24LeetlandonUnzipping the tar file.
07:25:49scorcheif you use svn, you dont need to unzip a tar file
07:26:41LeetlandonYeah, im getting it.
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07:31:50LeetlandonInstalling.....
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07:33:24LeetlandonStill doesnt work.
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07:37:11LeetlandonDownloading it from a seperate source manually.
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07:49:50Leetlandonarm-elf-gcc command not found.
07:52:27scorchehttp://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/CygwinDevelopment
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08:33:02LeetlandonAlrighty, still... same error
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08:42:36LeetlandonOkay, im compilling now, but im getting LOTS of warnings
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09:03:55amiconnyeehah, success :) :)
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09:04:19amiconnNow even the Ondio can keep up with simultaneous pcm recording transfer + saving
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09:15:08***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
09:16:27*amiconn test-recorded 4 tracks (18 minutes) as CD quality WAV on his Ondio FM - 100% glitch free :)
09:17:31B4gderand then you ran out of "disk" ? :-P
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09:25:34amiconnBagder: Nah, still 500MB available
09:25:42*amiconn did this test on his 4GB MMC
09:26:00B4gder;-) I just find recording to wav a funny thing to do on a flash based device
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10:09:49GodEaterooh, just noticed the major change mentioning the new Gigabeat bootloader. Is there a brief description of what it changes and why it's now a requirement ?
10:11:05krazykitGodEater, not brief, but http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/6929
10:11:32GodEaterthanks
10:12:28krazykitin short, it seems that some changes in both the bootloader and rockbox.gigabeat necessitate it in the purpose of improvement and being more uniform
10:12:55krazykiti don't have time to test it for a few days yet though. i really ought to be writing my paper so i can go to sleep
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10:23:32B4gderI decided I'll make an attempt to do the build zip downloads to the master in another thread
10:23:44B4gderduring the commit builds i mean
10:23:58B4gderbut only queue up 1 transfer
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10:25:38JdGordonwhy only queue 1 transfer?
10:25:54B4gderbecause otherwise a superfast server with superslow network will still slow things down
10:26:08JdGordonah ok
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10:27:13*GodEater is confident his server is neither superfast in itself, nor on a superfast network
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10:27:43markunIt's really tiring to see people adding false information again to the Gigabeat wikipedia article
10:27:55B4gderthe main benefit with this change would be that servers can start the next build without waiting for the previous upload to complete
10:28:06GodEaterthat's a good idea
10:28:38GodEatermarkun: I've just read the tracker page about the new GB bootloader, and I'm still none-the-wiser about why the new bootloader is required for new rockbox builds
10:29:21*amiconn summons [IDC]Dragon
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10:30:31markunGodEater: it's because a checksum was added to the rockbox kernel for the Gigabeat (it was already like this for all other targets)
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10:31:59markundo you wiser now?
10:32:07markunare you even :)
10:32:18GodEaterthat makes perfect sense :)
10:32:33GodEaterI'm not sure if I'm wiser now, but I have more of a clue :)
10:33:53GodEaterI've noticed activity in a forum thread around customising the flash loader on the GB too - are we any closer to getting a bootloader in flash on the GB yet? Or is that still an inestimable length of time away ?
10:34:39markuninestimable as usual
10:35:07GodEateris toffe having any luck with the JTAG?
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10:35:46markunI don't think he tried it yet
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11:15:11***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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11:33:20cropHello. What is the difference between "word wrap" and "wide mode" settings in the viewer plugin?
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11:34:20cropAnd what does "reflow lines" do? My dap (h120) froze yesterday after I've chosen that option.
11:36:13PaulJamisn't this covered in the manual?
11:36:53cropPaulJam: I haven't looked. I only looked in the wiki.
11:38:44cropPaulJam: not, there is no explanation for "reflow" in the manual.
11:40:00PaulJami have no idea what this reflow does, but it crashes the uisim here.
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11:40:43cropHe-he, so I'm not alone!
11:40:53dionoea"We are not alone!"
11:42:16bluebrotherI guess "reflow" discards single line breaks and rewraps the text
11:44:44cropbluebrother: isn't it what "join" does? So join acts like a web browser.
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11:45:07bluebrothermaybe. Not sure ...
11:45:27bluebrotherand a web browser always breaks at (html) line breaks ;-)
11:46:09bluebrotherbut from the wording I could guess join only joins the lines while reflow also rewraps them
11:46:40bluebrotherhaven't (and can't) check right now
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11:50:22PaulJamseems as if reflow just adds some space at the start of every line/paragraph.
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11:57:10daurnimatorJdGordon: you about?
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11:59:21PaulJamdoes the player still shutdown after the idle timeout while watching an mpeg video?
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12:04:38cropReflow seems to be similar to join (i.e. replace eol's with spaces) but not exactly the same. I can't tell exactly what the difference is since it doesn't work :-(
12:04:53LloreanPaulJam: As I said, it doesn't for me, and never did.
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12:05:42LloreanPaulJam: Did you ever go back and check what your idle timeout was set to, because if I recall you said it shutdown after ~5 minutes, which I think is less than th default idle timeout
12:06:27amiconnmpegplayer does still shutdown at idle timeout
12:06:46amiconnI always lower the default; 10 minutes are too long imho
12:06:55amiconnMy standard idle timeout is 3 minutes
12:07:00LloreanWhat players does it shutdown at idle on?
12:07:17amiconn??
12:07:30LloreanWell, I've watched a 2 hour 30 minute movie without it shutting down on me.
12:07:53dionoeashuts down on my player
12:08:16amiconnThen you probably have the idle timeout set higher than the rebuffer intervals in mpegplayer (which in turn depend on bitrate and amount of target ram)
12:08:42LloreanAh, yes, my lowest bitrate files are 400, which is rebuffering less than 10 minutes apart.
12:08:49amiconnOn archos it works in video.rock by chance, since rebuffer interval is < 1 minute
12:09:11amiconnOtherwise the same problem would exist there (and does on 8MB-modded archoses)
12:09:38LloreanSo, is there any way for plugins to say "I'm not idle"?
12:10:06amiconnThe problem is that the powermgmt code decides when to shutdown based on user activity, disk activity and playback status
12:10:15dionoeacan't they change the idl time out like they cahnge the backlight setting?
12:10:19dionoeaand reset it when done
12:10:24pixelmasame problem exists with midiplay btw...
12:10:43amiconnPlayback status is set to "stopped" while plugins are playing (like wavplay.rock, video.rock, mpegplayer.rock)
12:10:53Lloreanamiconn: So can't a plugin claim "playback status" somehow, or is that handled directly by somewhere in the actual playback code?
12:11:18amiconnYes, the powermgmt code needs a way to tell it that some external playback is running
12:11:49amiconnIt's a bit dirty anyway that powermgmt checks the playback state more or less directly
12:12:17amiconnIt should probably have a function to tell it the status, and the playback/recording engines and plugins then would use that interface
12:12:34LloreanJust something basic like the boost counter?
12:12:48amiconnJust a flag would be enough
12:13:01LloreanI'm not sure.
12:13:17dionoeaa flag might be dangerous if you have a plugin claming playback while music is also playing in the background
12:13:21LloreanPlayback plus a plugin that wants no idle off (battery_bench comes to mind, for testing idle battery life)
12:14:07Nico_Pamiconn: yesterday you said something about prefix mangling... could you explain what it is ?
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12:24:08*JdGordon joins very late in the convo... but... couldnt we just add a function to disable auto-off? and expect the calling plugin to reenable it before exiting?
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12:26:06B4gderor simply always re-enable on exit
12:26:11LloreanJdGordon: That's definitely one way to do it, yeah.
12:26:14LloreanB4gder: I like that.
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12:35:19cropI'd be against adding such function. There might be other settings that a plugin wants to deactivate and that would need to be restored after exit (in the plugin loading code). Where is the red line?
12:36:24amiconnB4gder: Well, the idle power off could be handled like this, but imho that'd be a somewhat dirty method
12:36:54B4gderwhy?
12:37:12B4gderimho, it makes sense that the core makes sure some things are fine after a plugin exits
12:37:19amiconnWell, currently there's a non-obvious interaction between playback and powermanagement
12:38:27LloreanWell, you either have a flag, that a plugin can set, and always gets unset after, that's independent of the normal playback check from powermgmt, or you have some sort of counter like the boost on that both playback and plugins may increment, and decrement when they stop.
12:39:13amiconncrop: Imho plugins are responsible for their actions. E.g. when they disable backlight timeout, they need to reenable it on exit. Likewise for other things, like telling the core that they're busy playing back something
12:39:53amiconnLlorean: Yes, didn't think about playback in parallel (mostly because that won't happen on hwcodec)
12:40:41amiconnNico_P: I said "like open, close, read etc"
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12:40:57Lloreanamiconn: Yeah, it's not a normal case, because I can't think of any of the normal plugins that don't require nearly constant user interaction *and* allow playback, other than battery_bench
12:41:10cropamiconn: yes, that's also my opinion. My question was: which settings are we going to restore in the plugin loader (if we go that way, which I think we shouldn't)
12:41:12Nico_Pamiconn: I think I found out what you meant... I'm trying to applysomething similar to sscanf
12:41:17amiconnThe sim needs to mangle the names in order to prevent non-rockbox components to use the rockbox lib versions of these, and vice versa
12:41:17LloreanMost plugins seem to expect the user to be pressing buttons fairly frequently anyway
12:42:01amiconnSo there's some magic that prepends "sim_" to them
12:42:57amiconnLlorean: Yes. There are only a few plugins which don't, and still should keep the player alive: mpegplayer, video.rock, wavplay (and soon wavrecord :) )
12:43:09Lloreanamiconn: And battery_bench (in my opinion)
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12:43:37LloreanBut yes, it's not a common case.
12:44:22amiconnwavplay and wavrecord will be removed one day, and it works for them by chance (as it does for video.rock on standard boxes)
12:45:06LloreanAnd mpegplayer if your total bitrate is over a certain point (I'm guessing 350ish, but I don't know the total buffer size)
12:45:23LloreanAssuming default idle poweroff (which I do agree is a bit high)
12:45:32amiconnOnly if you have the default idle timeout set
12:46:00amiconnBut the mentioned plugins work on (standard) archoses even with the minimum (1 minute)
12:46:34LloreanWell, they deal with lots of rebuffering.
12:46:39LloreanOr buffer flushin to disk
12:48:00amiconnyep
12:48:02Nico_Phmm I'm trying to understand what's done in uisimulator/sdl/sprintf.h.... theres a "#define vsnprintf rockbox_vsnprintf" but I can't find rockbox_vsnprintf anywhere...
12:48:43Nico_Pactually it's declared right next to the define in sprint.h, but no definition
12:48:57pixelma...and midiplay as it is ATM (guess it's supposed to be in the core one day, too)
12:49:29*amiconn doesn't expect midiplay to be turned into a codec any time soon :/
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12:50:22amiconnAm I right that none of the playback engine experts will show up at devcon?
12:55:18Nico_PBagder: maybe you can help me on this... I see a log where you explaied the thing to someone
12:55:45Nico_PBagder: but despite that explanation I still don't get it :(
12:57:35cropNico_P: is it called? If not then the linker won't complain (IMO)
12:58:22Nico_Pcrop: I can't find rockbox_vsnprintf anywhere at all besides in uisimulator/sdl/sprintf.h
12:58:32B4gderNico_P: no time atm
12:58:38JdGordongcc does complain if a function is defined but not called...
12:58:50JdGordonunless its in a header somehwere.. then it doesnt
12:58:58amiconnJdGordon: It only does so if the function is static
12:59:11amiconn..and that's only a warning then
12:59:29Nico_PB4gder: even to tell me where rockbox_vsnprintf is found by the linker ? because IIUC, it's the new name of vsnprintf in the sim so it must be declared somewhere
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13:02:05amiconnNico_P: The #define will rename it everywhere where the .h file is included
13:02:17cropNico_P: does vsnprintf g et called anywhere? If not there's no reason to complain.
13:02:45Nico_Pamiconn: yes, and it will get renamed to rockbox_vsnprint... but where is that defined ?
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13:03:14amiconnIt's defined where vsnprintf is defined, if the header is included
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13:03:33amiconnIf it's not, then it's simply unused
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13:04:32Nico_Pamiconn: OK, I'm going to try to do exactly the same for sscanf and see if it works... what I'd done wasn't quite the same
13:05:31cropamiconn: ...which makes me think that this file (=sprintf.h) can be deleted.
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13:08:38Nico_Pwoohoo
13:08:44Nico_Pit works !
13:09:09Nico_Pat least the linker accepted it, now I need to see if it actually works
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13:10:38Nico_P...damn, I still get the same problem as before
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13:34:18Nico_Pnow it works
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13:50:14*JdGordon hates doing uni assignments :'( they are so boring
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13:55:24*pondlife is very happily reunited with his H340, now with working UDA1380.
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14:30:33Lloreanpondlife: Also, Rockbox doesn't support HE-AAC.
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14:34:36pondlifeLlorean: Fair enough, but does that make it a bug report still?
14:34:58Lloreanpondlife: Well, the original issue is the database crashing
14:35:09LloreanIf it's HE-AAC, then I'm closing it again, if it's the supported type of AAC, I'm not.
14:35:43pondlifeYes, database crashing caused by MP3 files too.
14:36:18pondlife?
14:36:34pondlifeAh, only after he went to AAC..
14:37:55LloreanWe'll see what he responds.
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14:53:44JdGordonzzzzz... im boooorredd!
14:54:11JdGordonare there any more bugs I should have fixed by now in the icon/menu/root menu code that I've forgotten about?>
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14:59:25leftrightJdGordon, if you're bored you can always fix the playback bugs, a bored person lacks inmagination, thats what my maths teacher always said
15:00
15:00:09JdGordonbored... not masocitsic.... I choose to stay away from that code as much as I can :)
15:00:10pondlifeJdGordon: That general purpose buffering API?
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15:01:21leftrighttime to move to the next level....
15:03:32JdGordonpondlife: na... that really will have to wait for devcon imo... gotta get everyone to figure that out together :(
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15:04:32pondlifeWell, thinking about it and making plans beforehand might cure your boredom ;p
15:05:03JdGordonor bring on early insanity :D
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15:05:13pondlifebring on?
15:05:14pondlife;)
15:05:42leftrightinsanity is near to genius
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15:06:15JdGordon:)
15:06:51pike2khi guys
15:06:57pike2kiriver h120 owner here
15:07:09pike2khow well does aac playback work these days ?
15:07:24JdGordondionoea: hey, you around?
15:07:39dionoeayup
15:07:50LinusNpike2k: it works ok for me with the few aac tracks i have
15:08:28pike2kspecial padding needed ? ie .mp4 or iso aac ok ? what bitrates ? aac+ ?
15:08:48JdGordondionoea: I see you created solataire... I want to get it to move a whole stack from one pile to another without having to select the top card of the stack... any idea where I would do this?
15:09:04dionoeain the move function i guess
15:09:22LinusNpike2k: so many questions... i am no aac expert at all, so i have no answers for you
15:09:50dionoeaJdGordon: i'll check the code to be a little more specific
15:10:11JdGordoncheers
15:10:14pike2kLinusN, can you atleast tell me if there has been any aac changes the past year ?
15:10:25pike2kI guess I will have to do my own testing
15:11:02pike2kI assume it's a "generic" aac decoder so it will suck batteries like a ***
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15:11:27dionoeaJdGordon: well first you'd need to code a function to get the upprtmost visible card in a column
15:11:30dionoeaand then you call move
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15:12:29dionoeathat first function would look kind of like the find_prev_card functions with an extra while and a check on .known
15:12:39dionoeas/functions/function/
15:13:07JdGordonok, thanks
15:13:10leftrightis there any way a sequenced column could be compressed in slitaire, if the longest row has a comlete column it tends to compress the cards making the cards very small
15:13:23LinusNpike2k: plenty of changes, among them some mp4 demux fixes, replaygain support, resume support, lots of optimizations
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15:15:31PaulJamJdGordon: i have maybe a little menubug for you if you are bored. The setting for the lineselector has a little bug (at least in the uisim), if you set it to use the cursor it uses the inverse bar again after restart, and if youset it to cursor and then back to inverse bar, it uses the cursor after restart.
15:16:20JdGordonPaulJam: I noticed that also... i dont think its a real bug though, just the sim not saving settings for some reason
15:16:52aliaskCan the sim do a clean shutdown?
15:17:39aliaskHolding the off button never seems to make it close, so I just press the x in the corner - but does that perform settings writing etc?
15:17:46PaulJamJdGordon: i had the impression, that the sim saves the settings immideately after a setting has changed.
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15:18:12JdGordonit should
15:18:25JdGordonaliask: no, the sim doesnt do a clean shutdown
15:19:09aliaskHrm, if it saves after every change then I guess it doesn't really need to...
15:21:59PaulJamJdGordon: ah, you are right, on the target it seems to behave correctly
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15:22:36JdGordonLinusN: hey, sorry to bug you, but any chance of alarm wakeup on the h300 any time soon? I'm having to leave it charning and playing overnight so I have a working alaram :(
15:22:57GodEaterbuy an alarm clock ?
15:23:00LinusNJdGordon: i have very little time for rockbox nowadays
15:23:01GodEater:D
15:23:10LinusNJdGordon: but the svn bootloader supports it
15:23:22JdGordonGodEater: thats the easy way out :p
15:23:27JdGordonLinusN: :( ok no prob
15:23:34LinusN"all" you have to do is to adapt the ipod code to the h300
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15:24:14JdGordongreat :p
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15:27:39JdGordondionoea: is there anyway to save the game state to make debugging easier?
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15:29:45JdGordonbah Llorean, you beat me by like 30sec to reply :p
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15:34:41AceNikhey guys am making a new wps based on looks of vista , i need desperate help with someone who can render photoshop stuff for it
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15:37:48JdGordondionoea: bah, once I figured out which move_card() call I needed to play with it was easy :)
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15:43:45spiorfSending command: "Execute SMART Extended self-test routine immediately in off-line mode".
15:43:45spiorfDrive command "Execute SMART Extended self-test routine immediately in off-line mode" successful.
15:43:45spiorfTesting has begun.
15:43:45DBUGEnqueued KICK spiorf
15:43:45spiorfPlease wait 36 minutes for test to complete.
15:43:45spiorfTest will complete after Mon Apr 23 16:17:30 2007
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15:43:54spiorfops sorry, wrong channel
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16:02:08dionoeaJdGordon: saving isn't currently possible but it would be cool
16:02:36JdGordonhmm :( i tihnk ive fixed the one bug I found...
16:02:51JdGordonbut without an easy way to reproduce its a bit hard to test
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16:06:40dionoeaJdGordon: using shortcuts to move cards off the remains stack when the cursor is on the remains stack?
16:07:15JdGordonthe bug? no... moving K from the remains stack onto another stack makes it go very funny...
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16:07:33JdGordonIve done a special case for it to make it nice.. possibly could be done better though
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16:26:07JdGordonbuilds stalled again? I thought we got over the stalling problem ? :'(
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16:27:58JdGordonBagder: care to kick the build servers?
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16:28:54AceNikJdGordon:what is a ti-basic emulator
16:29:03AceNikcan anyone tell me whether this is a bug or not :
16:29:15pixelmaJdGordon: I don't really understand from the message what the changes should do (especially what should happen when you only want to select a part of the column)
16:29:20LloreanIt'd really be a TI-BASIC interpreter.
16:30:12B4gderJdGordon: there is script development going on so things change...
16:30:23AceNikwhen i update the id3tag of a song , & in rockbox the id3 database update is on , so why does it not show , in the recently added , when a files id3 has bin updated or modified
16:30:32JdGordonpixelma: if you have a stack 9-2 and you want to move the whole stack onto a 10, before you had to select the 9.. now you can select the 2 and it will move the whole lot
16:30:41JdGordonB4gder: ah ok
16:30:56B4gderclearly I had messed up somehow in my recent edits
16:32:06pixelmaJdGordon: and what happens when I only want to move the 2 in this case (for example to free the specific 3)?
16:32:09amiconnJdGordon: That doesn't always make sense. Sometimes I *do* want to move the partial column
16:32:33pixelmathat's what I meant
16:32:52amiconnAnd I really don't see why selecting the 9 (in this case) is a problem... it's just going down once (which will wrap)...
16:32:53JdGordonit will move the first sub-stack that is legal
16:33:15JdGordonso if you try moving a 2 onto a 3 only the 2 will move
16:33:31LloreanAceNik: The database doesn't support updating/modifying files.
16:34:21LloreanAceNik: The auto-update feature just means finding entirely new files.
16:34:24AceNik Llorean:can there be a way possible to make it judge the changed files
16:35:15LloreanAceNik: Yes, if you wanted to make an update take a ridiculously long amount of time because it has to check for changes at each file.
16:35:29JdGordonnow if we could swap the rec and menu buttons on the sansa it would be completly usable with 1 finger
16:36:05AceNikLlorean: how does it then check for new files being added
16:36:07pixelmaJdGordon: ...if that works correctly... thanks for clearing that up (couldn't imagine from the commit message)
16:36:17AceNikLlorean: i presume by the dircache ?
16:36:29AceNikLlorean: or database file
16:36:33LloreanAceNik: It can use the dircache if it's active, and I believe it's necessary for auto-update.
16:36:51LloreanAceNik: But the point is, "Is the file there" is different from "Is the file different from last time I looked at it, and if so, how?"
16:36:53JdGordonpixelma: :) yeah, its too loate to be able to put a proper sentance together
16:37:20LloreanAceNik: The second one takes more work, and really, is there some reason you're often modifying the database-relevant tags on files?
16:37:30LloreanI'm thinking that if you get your tags right the first time, it's not exactly a big problem.
16:37:34AceNik Llorean:by the date stamp it was modified ?
16:37:37JdGordonB4gder: you've got it delaying the uploads now or different fiddling?
16:38:06B4gderjust preparing to move the uploads to a second thread
16:38:12 Quit daurnimator ("Cyas later...")
16:38:18AceNik Llorean:its just that i keep modifying, tags for spelling mistakes i uess everyone might
16:38:23 Quit barrywardell_ ()
16:38:27B4gderbut now I reverted some of my changes that clearly weren't good enough
16:38:30LloreanAceNik: So check your tags up front, and get them right?
16:39:30AceNik Llorean:but why are u drifting away from a possible solution to this , it can be implemented in the database , as even winamp supports that feature
16:39:31LloreanAceNik: The date stamp only tells you that it was modified, not whether the modification matters. As well, some people use MP3 software on their computer to play songs on their disk, updating playcounts in the song tags, which are then modification to the files requiring a database resync when there really isn't needed one for the unused tag.
16:39:55LloreanAceNik: Because the "solution" means adding complexity, adding the possibility for the database to have many more errors, and solves a "User error" problem.
16:40:08LloreanIf you really need to update songs in a database, simply reinitialize.
16:40:19B4gderAceNik: winamp does run a somewhat faster PC with more ram and higher disk speed
16:40:36B4gderin case you hadn't noticed ;-)
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16:40:40AceNik Llorean:ya i can reinitialise & loose the other recently added files
16:40:54LloreanLose?
16:41:00LloreanHow do you lose files by reinitializing?
16:41:30AceNikB4gder:i know that but im just lookin out for a solution to this , even the recently added feature was made possible by lookin out for solutions , by a counter method
16:42:00B4gdera counter method?
16:42:20B4gderrockbox has no idea what files that changed or were added until it would check for that explicitly
16:42:32AceNikB4gder:the first initialisation get the whole DB a 0, n the so on n so forth with
16:43:09B4gderI don't understand
16:43:19LloreanB4gder: For "recently added files"
16:43:31B4gderaha
16:43:46LloreanIt might even by my idea
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16:43:46*amiconn always does a full rebuild of the database anyway
16:43:53LloreanI suggested something like that to someone quite some time ago.
16:43:58B4gdera "re-init" could easily detect new files sure
16:44:01amiconnI don't trust that update feature
16:44:16AceNik Llorean: suppose i have my DB ready n added 4 tracks t my player with auto update on , it then scans my player & shows me all my recently added tracks , then now if you tell me to reinitialise , those 4 tracks that appeared , would be one since the whle DB is new
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16:45:27AceNikLlorean:?
16:45:36LloreanAceNik: So, your idea is that the auto-update should take longer for people who don't misspell track names, so that you don't lose recently added songs in a re-init?
16:45:46LloreanAnd please don't ? at me, I have other things to do, if I don't respond to you quickly enough, deal with it.
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16:46:18AceNikLlorean:well you know what forget it
16:46:31LloreanWhy not suggest that there be a method to re-initialize the database preserving runtime statistics and added order?
16:47:01LloreanThis would then solve your problem without adding a handicap to those who don't have bad tags.
16:47:34pondlifeDoes re-init still clear runtime stats? It would be nice if there was an automated way to preserve them (i.e. a quiet export/re-init/import when completed).
16:47:40LloreanPerhaps a "rebuild tags" option for the database, like a manual init, but it only goes through known songs and builds a fresh database from the actual file tags.
16:47:41AceNikLlorean:forget it , im not interested by your attitudes flaring at me now
16:48:02LloreanAceNik: My attitude is only directed at your impatience for my response.
16:48:26LloreanAceNik: As you may have noticed, I offered a solution that does solve your problem.
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16:49:23AceNikLlorean:no its not just now , just because a few of you guys got it rite everywhere in rockbox , you guys dont bother with other tryin to help, might as well start a new channel for newbie's & people like you can do their important work on this channel
16:49:41B4gderAceNik: cut the crap
16:49:56LloreanSeriously, how is "suggesting a better alternative" the same as "not trying to help?"
16:50:05B4gderif you can't argue for your idea, then please stop whining at Llorean
16:50:31AceNikLlorean: i shall be back later thinkin of solutions, thanks for your help
16:50:47LloreanAceNik: Why not mention what you feel is wrong with the one I suggested?
16:51:05amiconnpondlife: I wouldn't have noticed because I never used the runtime stats, but then my only use of the DB feature is for finding tagging errors...
16:51:13LloreanI can't come up with a better one right now, but if you feel it's problematic I'm willing to spend more time thinking.
16:51:37*B4gder has never used the db...
16:51:46AceNik Llorean:cause all i intend t suggest is since you uys know more , i prefer if you guys feel it rite , then you should go ahead with it , otherwise forget t
16:52:12Lloreanpondlife: Re-init is *supposed* to clear runtime stats, I believe. Because it's supposed to be creating a "new" database. IMHO a "rebuild from tags" option wouldn't be amiss. Rebuild the entire database from in-file tags, like a manual init, but preserve any data like runtime information that has been previously generated by RB
16:52:13pondlifeamiconn: I like the idea of runtime stats, but I find I have to re-init quite often. Not sure what knackers my database but there's something not quite right...
16:52:56pondlifeLlorean: I'm getting database corruption so need a serious clearout, but want to preserve the non-tag info.
16:53:04AceNikamiconn:precisely , i always end up finding errors , where 2 artist occur havin different spellings, thats the reason people also tend to modify the tag , thats the reason , i wanted the modified tas t appear in recently added
16:53:07pondlifei.e. the runtime stats.
16:53:14Lloreanpondlife: Wouldn't a "rebuild from tags" like I described solve that then?
16:53:26pondlifeYes, I think so
16:53:28LloreanThere needs to be a way to start "clean" without manually deleting the files, which is what re-init is for.
16:53:32*amiconn doesn't care about runtime stats, recently added etc
16:53:58amiconnI simply see no use for such features personally. Same goes for rating
16:54:01pondlifeAs long as it doesn't rely on the existing database being correct at all.
16:54:01Lloreanpondlife: Clearly, any songs which have changed during the rebuild would lose their runtime stats.
16:54:08pondlifeOf course
16:54:24*amiconn thinks one should know which songs one likes
16:54:24pondlifeThe existing export and import work ok, but are a bit more work for the user.
16:54:56LloreanA rebuild from tags could really just include the silent export/import if they work well enough for that.
16:55:09AceNikLlorean:can the files be handeled independantly for a few things ?
16:55:10LloreanA export, re-init, import, all hidden behind the scenes.
16:55:24LloreanAceNik: I don't understand the question. What files?
16:56:01AceNik Llorean:all the music files?
16:56:26AceNik Llorean: how is the metadata stuff goinon till now, can there be help from there
16:57:22LloreanI don't understand what exactly you're asking.
16:57:59AceNik Llorean:how does rockbox deal with assigning runtime stats to a particular file
16:58:45LloreanI would assume it has some means of matching it with a database entry.
16:58:51LloreanProbably based on filename.
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16:58:58LloreanBut that's just a guess.
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17:00:20AceNikLlorean:well when its starting up the player , & checks for auto-update , where does it check with like how does it know new files are added , has to be the dircache rite ?
17:00:20cropIsn't the music collection stored on the dap a copy anyway? With a master copy on a PC? Then there are better tools for organizing library / editing tags etc.
17:01:11Lloreancrop: A lot of people keep their only copy on dap. But the problem isn't editing tags. The problem is that changed tags don't migrate to the database automatically (mostly because it adds a lot of unnecessary complication that can be avoided by just having good tags)
17:01:18AceNikcrop:yes areed you can oranise library on the pc , but makin it appear the same on rockbox with every chane you make is the question
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17:01:40cropLlorean: changed in USB mode?
17:01:43LloreanAceNik: Yes, the dircache can be used to quickly determine if there are new files.
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17:02:09Lloreancrop: Yes, replaced with an updated version from the master collection, or just modified using any tag editing tool
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17:02:50AceNikLlorean: so the same way cant it detect a few modified files , obviously files were synced fromt he computer , ie recopied or replaced , so they have a new date stamp
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17:03:01cropAceNik, Llorean: I don't use the DB but I'd reinit the DB after having changed some files.
17:03:20AceNikLlorean: if this works editing tags in rockbox itself should work in a while
17:04:07LloreanAceNik: I told you the problem with depending on modification date tags: It solves your problem, but it creates a variety of new ones if files are modified for any non-Rockbox purpose, such as updating in-tag playcounts.
17:04:25Lloreancrop: That's the current solution. If you add files, no problem. If you change existing ones, re-init.
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17:05:26LloreanAceNik: Any of a number of things can modify files in ways that won't affect the database at all, and I highly doubt dircache keeps track of modification dates (no purpose for it) meaning that it requires real file checking
17:05:34LloreanWhich is a significantly longer process.
17:05:57AceNikLlorean:ok , then thats what i was asking there seems to be some work n the MOB , done by some people as i read on the forums , maybe they can help here
17:06:14 Quit barrywardell_ ()
17:06:25LloreanMetadata on Buffer has nothing to do with this at all.
17:06:32markunLlorean, AceNik: dircache_entry has wrtdate and wrttime, maybe those keep the modification date
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17:07:00Lloreanmarkun: It's possible, but still doesn't solve the problem of file modifications unrelated to dircache.
17:07:11cropI'll better stop commenting on the feature I don't use
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17:07:25markunAceNik: maybe I can make you a patch
17:07:26Lloreanmarkun: Er, unrelated to database, rather
17:07:28cropmarkun: BTW: there is a patch for nimbus fonts
17:07:29AceNikLlorean: im saying if they cant figured out a way to read only a particular part of the tag ie a part of meta data rite?
17:07:39markuncrop: ok, I'll look into it later
17:07:42AceNikmarkun: how ?
17:07:52markunAceNik: magic :)
17:07:53LloreanAceNik: That question makes no sense.
17:08:22LloreanAceNik: The whole tag has to be read to make sure it matches, or to replace the old one if it doesn't.
17:08:31AceNik Llorean:well imoutta questions n confused , cause there has to be a way with the modification , date stamps
17:08:33cropmarkun: it should correct the encoding of the euro symbol (this was reported by someone here)
17:08:35markunAceNik: "rite" is "right" and not "write" right?
17:08:51markuncrop: ok
17:09:01AceNikmarkun:ya its right
17:09:01cropmarkun: btw euro symbol: shouldn't it look the same regardless of the font family?
17:09:07LloreanAceNik: I told you, modification stamps could work, but they'd still require needlessly making file reads for ANY file change.
17:09:32LloreanAceNik: To find out if a file change is in the metadata you're interested in, you have to look at the file and check.
17:09:37markunLlorean: what kind of changes do you make to your files?
17:09:43Lloreanmarkun: I don't.
17:09:52Lloreanmarkun: My tags are properly spelled, and I don't use database anyway.
17:10:13Lloreanmarkun: But I know several people who listen to their files on a PC from their DAP, and have it update playcount tags.
17:10:40markunbut those changes shouldn't be picked up by tagcache?
17:10:51Lloreanmarkun: And they won't be
17:11:01Lloreanmarkun: but tagcache would still have to open the file, and check the tags that it cares about
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17:11:48LloreanBasically, it's a question of making life easier for people with bad tags, by making updates take longer for people with good tags who want to change irrelevant ones.
17:11:58markunLlorean: I don't understand what you mean by "And they won't be"
17:12:07Lloreanmarkun: They won't be picked up by tagcache.
17:12:34markunbecause the playcount is not important?
17:12:41LloreanNot to tagcache.
17:12:47LloreanAs far as I know the playcount tag isn't used.
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17:13:19pondlifeHmm, my database is meant to be in RAM, but the debug screen reads: "RAM Cache: No, RAM 0/0B". Is that correct?
17:13:19LloreanI still think a manual "rebuild from tags" option is a much better solution than complicating the auto-update feature even more.
17:13:42AceNikmarkun:Llorean:leave it , if it has to be one leave it as a separate feature dont include it with the current DB
17:14:09markunLlorean: from tagcache.h in enum tag_type: "tag_playcount" so it's not completely unlikely it could be used
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17:14:27Lloreanmarkun: Ah, perhaps it is now. Last time I looked it wasn't, but it's been a while.
17:14:28markunAceNik: I think it's a useful feature
17:14:42AceNikmarkunlorean:why cant there be a separate feature like autoupdate , checking for updates in tags , n display it in Recently added
17:14:54LloreanAceNik: I suggested that quite a very long time ago.
17:15:12LloreanAceNik: And you ignored it, repeatedly, even when I asked you directly what you thought was wrong with it
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17:15:22AceNikmarkun:lorean:like in the database settings there can be a thing where if you want you select the update tags feature on startup
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17:15:38*Llorean sighs.
17:16:09AceNiklorean:well then you should just bother with the way you pass comments first for people to evn care to listen to what you say
17:16:29LloreanSo, it's my fault that you ignored me?
17:16:33LloreanI give up.
17:16:46LloreanIf you can come up with a way to implement this feature in a manner that will not inconvenience any current users, fine.
17:17:34Slasheriit would be possible to add a new tag to hold the file modification timestamp
17:17:40LloreanMy suggestion still stands: Assume tags are correct, and if they're not offer a manual rescan of tags, rather than complicating anything automated.
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17:18:17*Llorean really doesn't like depending on file modification timestamps.
17:18:26Slasheribut it needs also more improvements to the update feature not to lose play statistics of that file etc.
17:18:47AceNikLlorean: im not working on it , i just sugested a open idea for anyone interete t tak it ahead , but seems people like to pounce without notice
17:19:06LloreanAceNik: Notice: I am about to pounce
17:19:20pondlifeSlasheri: Did you see my comment above regarding RAM usage?
17:19:36pondlifeI rebooted and it was then ok, but no delayed commit took place.
17:19:36LloreanAceNik: When you make suggestions, in here or as a feature request, people will comment on it. It's expected. Because an idea has to be "good enough", and that means people who don't think it is will try to establish that it isn't, so that an idea can be developed further and made better.
17:19:39Slasheripondlife: ah, yes (just reading logs). That is not correct
17:19:42AceNikLlorean:you know what since you least bothered please stp commenting & if it is possibl people will read th lo & someone will take it ahead , since you dont use DB just forget commenting
17:19:44LloreanAny idea suggested in here, ever, will likely be criticized.
17:20:05LloreanAceNik: I don't use the DB, but any additional code WILL affect me.
17:20:27Slasheripondlife: however, if the commit was delayd, then it would be normal
17:20:27markunAceNik: Slasheri is Mr. Tagcache btw
17:20:43LloreanSlasheri: I have an idea.
17:20:45pondlifeSlasheri: It also said "Delayed commit: No" :)
17:20:52AceNik pondlife:you dont have dircache on
17:20:57pondlifeI do
17:21:04LloreanSlasheri: When a song is buffered, if database is active, why not compare its tags with that in DB, and if different, update them?
17:21:26LloreanI can't imagine that will add very much time to buffering at all, build would allow an automated "fixing" of tags over time, at least.
17:21:41SlasheriLlorean: hmm, if database is loaded to ram, then that would be possible to do
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17:21:49pondlifeAha, a decent use for the buffering callback...?
17:22:09LloreanAs I said, I'd really like to search for a solution that doesn't depend on last-modified stamps on the files.
17:22:09SlasheriLlorean: however, if the new (string) tag is longer than the old one, we can't directly modify it
17:22:26Slasheriinstead it's necessary to create a changelog and re-commit the db
17:22:51AceNikSlasherithats what i do now
17:23:46Slasherithat would not mean complete rescan, just recommit the new longer tags on next boot or something like that
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17:24:37AceNikSlasheri:what bout tags havin an alphabet change itself like a −−> A
17:25:07Slasherithat kind of updates are possible to do immediately once implemented
17:25:14LloreanSlasheri: Maybe also a context menu option "Rescan this filter" that lets you trigger a rescan of tags on say, an album, individual song, genre, or whatnot? Would that also be possible. That's manual, but it allows a lot of flexibility.
17:25:50LloreanIt would of course scan all tags under that.
17:25:56Slasherihmm, would be possible
17:26:14Slasheriso that could be activated under the database context menu
17:27:05Slasheriand file modification timestamps could be used in addition of that
17:27:14Slasheriif timestamps are identical, skip the file
17:28:19LloreanYes, using timestamps to decrease the time spent working I don't have a problem with.
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17:28:46LloreanI just don't like trusting them as the method for determining whether a file should be scanned. Shouldn't is another case, I can't imagine a file being changed but having the same modified stamp very often. ;)
17:28:48AceNik Slasheri:thanks for pitchin in buddy
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18:11:48CG|sauI have a little suggestion for Rockbox, don't know if it's possible or not - a guitar tuner, using the internal microphone on the E200 for example
18:12:09CG|sauif I could code I'd do it myself, but since I can't I'll just leave the idea hanging
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18:55:14amiconnBagder: r u there?
18:55:19Bagderyes
18:55:42amiconnRemember that I asked about the XSkat license a while ago?
18:56:02BagderI have a vague memory of that, yes
18:56:32amiconnYou said that the license isn't GPL compatible, however, debian doesn't seem to have a problem with putting it in their 'main' section
18:56:54Bagderfirst, debian includes gpl incompatible software
18:57:45Bagderthen, it seems some places claim a gpl xskat game
18:58:20amiconnHmm. I thought they follow a pretty strong definition of free software, and put anything incompatible (but still non-commercial) in 'non-free'
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18:58:40amiconn(and the 'glue' into 'contrib')
18:59:53amiconnThis is the short license text; it can be found in every source file: http://www.pastebin.ca/454460
19:00
19:00:15 Nick yuriks_ is now known as yuriks (n=yuriks@200.102.90.110)
19:00:25amiconnIirc you said section 2b would be the problem,
19:00:49Bagderdid I really?
19:01:46amiconnbecause the GPL doesn't allow restrictions like this.
19:01:47Bagdersince I don't think it is an added restriction
19:02:07Bagderwell, unless you take that renaming thing literally of course
19:02:07amiconnHowever, we also have (modified) bsd-license code in our tree, which also adds a few restrictions
19:02:18Bagderthe modified one does not add restrictions
19:02:55amiconnDepends on the definition of 'restriction', and that's why I'm asking
19:03:41Bagderin what way is the modified bsd adding requirements by any definition?
19:03:51amiconn"Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution."
19:04:00amiconnIsn't that a restriction?
19:04:25Bagdernot an added one, as the same things are already basically required in the GPL license
19:04:33amiconnI'm no license expert...
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19:04:54amiconnAh, hmm....
19:05:21 Part rift1
19:06:41Bagderbut I guess the 2b) in the xskat license is additional requirements
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19:07:14amiconnBagder: Hmm, reading the GPL, it seems that 2b) of the XSkat license matches 2a) of the GPL
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19:07:31amiconn"You must cause the modified files to carry prominent notices stating that you changed the files and the date of any change."
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19:07:51Bagderamiconn: the GPL doesn't require a name change nor a specific version
19:07:59amiconntrue
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19:08:29amiconnSO, what would be required if we want to add this code as a rockbox plugin?
19:08:44amiconnDual license by the author?
19:10:02Bagderthe best thing would be if the author could agree to releasing it with a compatible license, yes
19:11:15amiconnok
19:12:09*Bagder runs off again
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19:12:11pixelmawould that have to be for the original code or could he also agree on a already for rockbox modified code?
19:12:31linuxstbIt could be the subset of the code needed for a Rockbox port.
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19:13:07pixelmaah - ok
19:14:01amiconnSome parts of the code aren't important for rockbox, like LAN game
19:14:02linuxstbOr I guess the person who ports it to Rockbox would own partial copyright in the code, so could agree a license with the original author for the new version.
19:15:14linuxstbI think it would be nice to suggest a license to the author, but I'm not sure what GPL-compatible license is closest to his home-brew license.
19:15:23***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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19:17:55amiconnhttp://www.pbidir.com/packages.php?code=61 <= "License: GPL" That can't be correct...
19:19:10linuxstbMaybe his 2b) could be loosened - e.g. he could use the same wording as the GPL regarding "prominent notices", and only suggest (i.e. not part of the license itself) to people modifying his code that they rename and/or change the version number.
19:20:23LloreanCouldn't you maintain the strictness by explicitly saying the license is for the code only, and not the copyrighted proper name, which is the name and version number combination?
19:21:08LloreanThen the code could be under a GPL compatible license, while still allowing him to restrict renaming?
19:21:22BagderI don't think it works like that
19:22:09Bagdersince for it to be GPL-compatible, someone should be allowed to rip the code from Rockbox and generate a new game called Xskat if they want to
19:22:28LloreanAh, but that's not quite true.
19:22:46LloreanFor example, someone can rip the code from Rockbox, but cannot generate a new game called "Tetris"
19:22:49Bagderwell, trademark issues asside
19:23:14LloreanThat's all I'm saying, though: Why does the name of the game have to be licensed along with the code?
19:23:20Bagderthe main reason the apache license is not gpl compatible is exactly such a name protection
19:23:25LloreanWhy can't the code be "Unnamed card game"
19:23:38LloreanOr really, anything else?
19:23:49BagderI bet it can
19:24:01LloreanBasically, the code is released, but the name isn't.
19:24:38Bagderbut then it is released with the name "unnamed" I guess
19:24:53LloreanI mean, I'm thinking of Doom here.
19:25:00LloreanThe game code is released under the GPL, all the resources aren't.
19:25:20Bagdernot quite the same though
19:25:24LloreanTrue
19:25:25Bagderit was still called Doom
19:26:11Bagderbut now I'll go and put kids to bed...
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19:29:34tHEkINDHello
19:29:42rretzbachHi.
19:30:07tHEkINDThe WPS engine has be totally changed a few days/weeks ago ?
19:30:13tHEkIND*been*
19:30:36rretzbachIs it still(daily build) possible to save the state while shutting rockbox down and restoring it after the next boot?
19:30:52rretzbachI can't find the option :( Is it in the faq?
19:31:16LloreanWhat state?
19:31:28LloreantHEkIND: Just what happens behind the scenes, yes.
19:32:05linuxstbrretzbach: Do you mean the "resume on startup" option?
19:32:16tHEkINDAnd
19:32:27tHEkINDThe multifont patch is totally down
19:32:35rretzbachlinuxstb: I think so.
19:32:44rretzbachI don't remember the name.
19:32:51tHEkINDI just was wondering if it's Planned that somebody sync it :D
19:32:52tHEkIND?
19:33:15linuxstbrretzbach: That's been replaced by the "startup screen" option. You can set that to "playback" (I don't know the exact name).
19:33:35rretzbachlinuxstb: Thanks I'll look it up.
19:33:37LloreantHEkIND: Anyone is free to resync it if they want, but it's a patch so it mostly lies to the patch author or some enterprising user.
19:33:38PaulJamtHEkIND: it would propably be the best to ask the author of the patch to sync it
19:34:01tHEkINDYou could ask Julius to do it PaulJam ?
19:34:18tHEkINDLots of H10 users are waiting for it
19:34:40rretzbachlinuxstb: perfectly, it works.
19:34:41PaulJamtHEkIND: why should i? i don't use that patch.
19:34:42pixelmarretzbach: it's quite hidden (and not in the manual yet) - under settings > general settings > system
19:34:44tHEkINDThe screen is so little that multifont is really needed to show different types of informations
19:35:06tHEkINDLOL PaulJam, sorry i've read "i would be..."
19:35:13pixelmarretzbach: was a bit too slow :)
19:36:09rretzbachpixelma: I appreciate your efforts nonetheless. Thanks.
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19:36:41rretzbachI just thought statup screen was something totally GUI
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19:42:21*amiconn wonders why the H10 screen needs a multifont patch
19:42:45amiconnA number of targets has screens with even lower resolution, and they get along without multifont
19:43:12amiconnIt might be nice to have, but certainly not required
19:43:34tHEkINDyep
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19:44:47bluebrothertHEkIND: the ipod mini has a small screen too. But I still don't see any need for multifont
19:44:58tHEkINDI mean
19:45:12tHEkINDH10 -> 128x128px
19:45:29bluebrotherso what?
19:45:43tHEkINDAnd if you want to have Artist, ALbum, title, next track, hour, progressbar
19:45:48pixelmawhat should the average Archos user say... 112x64...
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19:45:51linuxstbArchos Recorder - 112x64...
19:45:57*linuxstb too slow this time
19:45:59tHEkINDYou can't just collapse all lines
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19:46:21tHEkINDWith lines with low-important information
19:46:28bluebrotherrecorder: 112x64
19:46:30tHEkINDAs big as the others
19:46:33tHEkINDYeah yeah
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19:46:39*bluebrother was too slow ...
19:46:56bluebrotheripod mini is 138x110
19:47:01tHEkINDAnd the first non official build for H10 had multifont :D
19:47:10bluebrotherdoesn't matter to me.
19:47:26*bluebrother didn't ever see a good reason not using the official build
19:47:44pixelmathe ifp's screen has a resolution of 128x64 (as the iriver remote lcds too)
19:47:55linuxstbtHEkIND: I don't think people are saying multifont isn't a nice feature, just that the H10 isn't special
19:48:02Lloreanbluebrother: But don't you just crave the shiny, and waiting days or weeks to get the newest official feature just so you can have album art?
19:48:20LloreanCould "Multifont" actually be a part of "Metadata on buffer"?
19:48:41bluebrotherno ... album art is completely of no interest to me due to no target with color screen :)
19:48:47LloreanSpecifically, could we not render the strings of metadata as 1bpp images in various fonts on the buffer (whichever the WPS defines) rather than as actual strings?
19:49:22bluebrotherdoesn't the multifont atch use up to 10 fonts?
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19:50:06*amiconn wonders what Llorean is talking about
19:50:11PaulJamLlorean: but metadata isn't all the wps can show
19:50:32amiconnFonts have to be rendered as bitmaps on bitmap displays...
19:50:39LloreanPaulJam: Anything else the WPS can show is either static (text strings), or from a very limited set of characters, all of which can be loaded individually instead of a whole font.
19:50:51PaulJamand to render the srings it would still have to load the fonts
19:51:29amiconnLlorean: The font doesn't have to be loaded as a whole, there is lru caching going on
19:51:49Lloreanamiconn: Yes, but with multiple fonts doesn't that become a bit nastier?
19:51:51amiconnThat's necessary for unicode support without excessively large buffers
19:52:20LloreanPaulJam: Not in the same way.
19:53:07amiconnLlorean: It has to load them one way or another
19:53:18amiconnAnd doing it another way just means more code
19:53:25LloreanBasically, the string s"Queen" "Bohemian Rhapsody" and "Greatest Hits Volume I", in the worst case using 3 fonts, could require that three fonts be 'active' and perhaps cached in some way, or it could require that maybe 40 characters go on the buffer.
19:54:22bluebrotherwhy support more than 2 fonts?
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19:55:10Lloreanbluebrother: From a design perspective, people often want some lines larger or smaller than others. For example, current song ID3 info could be 16px, next song 10px, and volume/battery 8px
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19:55:44bluebrotherbut on large screens you won't notice a differenct of 2px quite much
19:55:48 Quit crop ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
19:55:56bluebrotherand to get arbitrary spacing viewports will help
19:56:18linuxstbWhat about different fonts in the menus and WPS?
19:56:22Lloreanbluebrother: It's not a spacing issue though. It's just an appearance issue.
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19:56:35bluebrotherwhile it would be nice supporting an arbitrary number of fonts it looks pretty much like waste to me
19:56:46Lloreanlinuxstb: The advantage of my system is that the WPS could use any fonts it wants without using the font memory/space from the menus
19:56:52LloreanMy system, or one like it.
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19:57:16LloreanSince the characters are stored on buffer, and only if they're fonts other than the main font, you only really lose space to them if you start going crazy with additional fonts.
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19:57:22bluebrotheranyway, I'm going to (finally) leave uni for today. Back in a while.
19:58:17linuxstbLlorean: I think it would be simpler to just support multiple fonts...
19:58:43amiconnLlorean: You need to buffer all the glyphs needed for displaying the strings. The font code will do this one day, perhaps
19:58:50Lloreanlinuxstb: Currently we reserve 60k for the main font. Do we want to increase that for multiple fonts or start dividing it up?
19:59:17mooslinuxstb: yeah ideally 1 font for WPS 1 for menu and 1 for browser :)
19:59:23amiconnBut loading many different fonts at once is a waste of resources imho, and it won't look nice in most cases
19:59:46linuxstbI always imagined multi-font support to just be an extension of the lru current caching system.
19:59:50amiconnTypographers usually say that the number of different fonts should be kept to a minimum for a nice look
20:00
20:00:15LloreanI agree that the number used should be kept to a minimum.
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20:00:45Nico_Pamiconn: true, but it can be nice to have different sizes of the same font
20:01:09amiconnAlgorithmic emboldening should help if someone wants some text to be emphasized, and it won't require any extra ram
20:01:10LloreanBut I just think that since most text displayed in the WPS is static-ish, it could somehow use the buffer rather than treating the one-three WPS fonts as whole fonts in terms of the cache etc.
20:01:51LloreanStatic in the sense that it's known at buffer-time what all the possibilities are.
20:02:06LloreanBut it's just an idea.
20:02:33moosmarkun: didn't you working on font? ;p
20:02:54linuxstbAlthough there is lots of information in a wps which doesn't come from tags - playback time, playlist position, battery, volume, rtc, ...
20:02:58amiconn"The buffer" would be a font buffer after all, no matter how many glyphs it buffers. So why a different system??
20:03:25Lloreanlinuxstb: Almost all of those are numeric though.
20:03:58Lloreanamiconn: The playback buffer means "the more fonts you use, the more glyphs you use, the less space you have for songs, but if you just use the current menu font you don't need to fill up the audio buffer"
20:04:07amiconnLlorean: Yes, and? In that case, the lru buffer would just buffer the digit glyphs...
20:04:26amiconnThe font buffer is fixed size
20:04:27Lloreanamiconn: If you use a font buffer/cache, the use of space is less dynamic. We have to reserve it in advance instead, meaning if you don't make use of multiple fonts, or any characters outside the ASCII range, you're wasting a lot of space
20:04:41amiconnYou are not
20:04:50amiconnThat's why there is lru buffering
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20:05:15LloreanRockbox currently has 60k in memory for the font, right?
20:05:16amiconnUnder normal circumstances it shouldn't happen that glyphs are going off-buffer once buffered
20:05:22amiconnNo, it's less
20:05:30LloreanI thought it was 60,000.
20:05:41*Llorean could be wrong
20:06:02amiconnAh, yes, for large-mem targets it is
20:06:34LloreanThe font I use is 32k on disk
20:06:56LloreanNow that's 28k wasted for me, but not a big deal.
20:07:12LloreanBut if we wanted to say, enable the use of 3 fonts, wouldn't it be reasonable to at least double the memory Rockbox allocates for them?
20:07:30moossurely not lots of users use fonts around 60k
20:07:53Lloreanmoos: ~1/2 of the fonts provided are over 60k
20:08:05LloreanReally it's 26, I believe, of the 60
20:08:17LloreanThe ones that support unicode well.
20:08:21LloreanOr at least, better than the others
20:09:40amiconnLlorean: Why do you think you would need more buffer for more fonts?
20:09:55linuxstbLlorean: How would your system deal with someone changing wps? Possibly to one with larger fonts...
20:10:08Lloreanlinuxstb: Ah, that wouldn't work well at all, true.
20:10:09amiconnThe limitation is the display. You won't need to buffer more glyphs than what can be shown at once on the lcd
20:10:34amiconn(of course plus some because the displayed information changes)
20:10:38Lloreanlinuxstb: But I'm perfectly happy with the idea that my system isn't ideal. I just want to bring up the idea that WPS information is more static.
20:10:58*amiconn 's typical wps'es aren't static
20:11:09amiconnStatic information is just a waste on the display
20:11:20linuxstbBTW, am I right in thinking the WPS can't wrap strings at the moment?
20:11:23Lloreanlinuxstb: Menu information is even more static. You know every single glyph you need from a font, by use of the lang file. If the menu font doesn't match others, you can have a fairly small character set relative to a whole font size
20:12:05amiconnJudging based on a small display of course... nothing like those pixel-waste-friendly lcds (ipod video, gigabeat)
20:12:19Lloreanamiconn: I'm having a hard time expressing what I mean quite right. It's not truly dynamic. When browsing the tree, information displayed depends on user input. On the WPS, information displayed comes from a very limited set (what's on-buffer, and what the WPS has in conditionals, strings, etc)
20:12:51LloreanEven when the user inputs a change, it's either changing the value of a conditional or numeric output, or changing tracks.
20:12:55amiconnLlorean: Still, why making extra effort buffering only those glyphs as the lru cache *already does that*
20:13:02tHEkIND Anyway, multifont is really apreciated and waited in thye SVN by users
20:13:03tHEkINDReally
20:13:04amiconnThat's what I can't understand...
20:13:20pixelmalinuxstb: you mean like 2 lines for track name or something like that?
20:13:29linuxstbpixelma: Yes.
20:13:30amiconntHEkIND: _Imho_ there is a ton of more important improvements, fixes etc than multifont
20:13:39pixelmano it can'T
20:14:13amiconnBut somehow it seems that others are preferring look over functionality
20:14:22amiconnMany others, I mean
20:14:52tHEkINDYeah but a 'basic user' don't see much bugs, and improvements like effets, multifont woult really be apreciated
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20:15:12tHEkINDAnd Rockbox would be more and more used
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20:15:48linuxstbtHEkIND: Are people not using Rockbox because it can only display 1 font at a time?
20:15:49tHEkINDBut i'm using rockbox for less the 6 months, ans i can tell that so much work has been done, rockbox is every day better
20:15:50amiconnThere are many bugs to fix in the exisitng features...
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20:16:03Lloreanamiconn: Because if your WPS uses different glyphs than your filetree, the LRU cache becomes flooded with whatever your WPS font is over time, and then browsing your filetree for inserting songs can flood it with other characters, then back again.
20:16:32LloreanIf the LRU cache is reserved for the filetree, then it's much less likely to be discarding, I think.
20:16:36tHEkINDlinuxstb : I'm not saying that, but how the firmware look is at least as important as the sound quality and functionnnalities
20:16:46tHEkINDYou can't deny that
20:16:53pixelmatHEkIND: but I hope you would want stable playback in first place?
20:16:54LloreantHEkIND: We all can and will.
20:17:07amiconntHEkIND: I dare to deny that
20:17:22LloreantHEkIND: How it looks is only equally important as functionality to the kind of people who only want to be users of something pretty
20:17:29tHEkINDWhy people say "Waaaw vista is good", even if it's a piece of shit ^^
20:17:35amiconnLlorean: This might happen anytime if the cache is too small, but it has nothing to do with the place it happens (wps, filetree, menu etc)
20:17:43tHEkINDYeah maybe not
20:18:11tHEkINDBut i think it's important, else iPod shouldn't be the most used player
20:18:25Lloreanamiconn: Yes, but for example, if the WPS doesn't use the LRU cache, but instead keeps its glyphs on-buffer alongside the songs they belong to, then it keeps that from happening due to WPS use.
20:18:37amiconnHow something looks is totally irrelevant as long as it doesn't fulfill its purpose, and preferably in a better way
20:18:43preglowamiconn: did you find out how linux deals with unicode on the api level?
20:19:10amiconnLlorean: That sounds awfully complicated...
20:19:15amiconnpreglow: No, why?
20:19:16Lloreanamiconn: But as I said, I was just trying to bring up some thought on this. It's pretty clear to me I haven't thought it through well enough
20:19:31amiconnI just know that the sim works with unicode filenames in my installation
20:19:32preglowamiconn: just wondering, i've been wondering about it myself
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20:21:41amiconnpreglow: Maybe *nix also supports the w* variants of those functions, and then it might be a good idea to use them
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20:21:58amiconnIt would make the sim independent on whether the current locale supports utf8
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20:22:41amiconnBut that requires lots of testing on different *nix-like systems. Not only linux but also *bsd and (shrug) macos
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20:24:16preglowi don't think it does support those
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20:34:52Nico_Pthere's a problem with the line height patch... scrolling lines. I've been thinking about how to handle them for a few days but I can't find a way to do them nicely
20:35:14Nico_Pnot without messing with the scrolling code at least
20:35:21LloreanWhat goes wrong with them?
20:35:51Nico_PLlorean: scrolling lines are defined by the line number and not by the absolute position
20:36:29dionoeaHello. What's the best rockbox compatible DAP atm ?
20:36:39Nico_Pdionoea: the gigabeat !! :d
20:37:07dionoeaany version number? (i need to be specific, i'm trying to convince a friend to buy a rockbox compatible DAP)
20:37:41toffe82gigabeat F40 or X60
20:37:43PaulJamdionoea: i think that highly depends on the personal preferences which dap is the best
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20:37:59j-bHello !
20:37:59dionoeawell good battery life, nice audio, and a color lcd i guess
20:38:07j-bI got a question.
20:38:13dionoeaj-b: i already asked it
20:38:16dionoeaor maybe not :)
20:38:22LloreanNico_P: So why does that present a problem?
20:38:29linuxstb_dionoea: Then the Cowon X5 and iriver H300 would probably also meet the criteria.
20:38:43dionoeaok. thanks
20:38:49dionoeaNow i'll paste these logs :D
20:38:51j-bAnyone has alreadu tested to put rockbox on iAudio U3 ?
20:39:01j-bdionoea: not the same question...
20:39:17linuxstb_j-b: There's nothing to test - the U3 has different hardware to any of the devices Rockbox supports, so it won't work.
20:39:20Nico_PLlorean: I can't tell the line to scroll at the right pos... unless I extend the LCD drivers
20:39:46j-blinuxstb_: that was what I liked to know... :'(
20:40:01LloreanNico_P: Ah, because it uses the font height still to determine where the line is?
20:40:10Nico_PLlorean: that's it
20:40:31linuxstb_Nico_P: Looking at the lcd driver, I think you would need to add something like a "lcd_set_lineheight()" function, and then change lcd_puts_style_offset to use that value instead of the font height. But I don't know if that's wanted...
20:40:34j-bbut I thought it was close to X5
20:41:25linuxstb_j-b: No, nothing like it... See here - http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=2848
20:41:42j-btoo bad for my sister...
20:42:03linuxstb_It has a telechips tcc770 CPU, and Rockbox doesn't run on any telechips CPUs.
20:42:39amiconnSounds like the wrong solution imho...
20:43:09Nico_Pamiconn: wrong solution for line height ?
20:43:27j-blinuxstb_: too bad, it is a pretty nice thing.
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20:46:44amiconnj-b: The list of targets supported by rockbox isn't fixed. Someone with enough interest and knowledge who owns a not-yet-supported device could start a port
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20:48:01j-bamiconn: hummm... I don't know if I have enough time/knowledge.
20:49:18amiconnNico_P: Yes. It means extending an old system that is already known to be not flexible enough and will be replaced soon(ish)
20:49:27Nico_Pamiconn: will it ?
20:49:49Nico_Pwho's planning on that ?
20:49:55j-bamiconn: anyone has already tryed to port to telechips ?
20:50:19Nico_Pamiconn: is that a part of viewports ?
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20:51:39amiconnViewports need to replace the scrolling lines mechanism, otherwise they would be of no real use
20:52:46Nico_Pamiconn: nice.... so it turns out line height *is* actually something viewports will allow
20:54:13amiconnYes... if it's wanted/needed (I still don't see why, but yeah...)
20:54:32Nico_Pamiconn: but maybe I could implement a "workaround" in the scrolling code for now
20:55:10amiconnBasically the viewports-enabled version of scrolling will allow to place scrolling text anywhere on the screen. Just the number of scrolling objects will be limited
20:55:25amiconn(probably depending on lcd size)
20:56:05amiconnI am also thinking about unifying the text output functions completely, meaning that there won't be 2 versions on targets with a remote lcd
20:56:26amiconnBut maybe some ugly details prevent that idea from working efficiently
20:57:06Nico_Pamiconn: and is there something preventing code from being factored out of the lcd-*.c files ?
20:57:30Nico_Psemms like the code in there is mostly the same
20:57:39Nico_Ps/semms/seems
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21:15:25***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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21:34:37fm2markun: ping
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21:39:00 Join bixibu [0] (n=bixibu@ANantes-154-1-18-181.w81-53.abo.wanadoo.fr)
21:39:02bixibuhi
21:40:59toffe82hellp
21:41:08toffe82hello
21:42:16 Join Reno [0] (i=cf3fdb02@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-17023bf7a6113e98)
21:42:25 Join Arathis [0] (n=doerk@p5484962C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
21:42:31Renowasup anybody here?
21:42:32linuxstbtoffe82: How's the Gigabeat S hacking coming along?
21:42:47Renohello?
21:43:00Renoanybody?
21:43:03 Join DataGhost [0] (i=dataghos@ip3e832ea5.speed.planet.nl)
21:43:07dionoeaReno: we hear you
21:43:11RenoOh
21:43:15Renosorry
21:43:18dionoea:)
21:43:24Renohi
21:43:29Renoi got a question?
21:43:44Renohow do i install the fonts on my ipod
21:43:49Renofor rockbox
21:44:02linuxstbJust download the rockbox-fonts.zip file and extract it to your ipod.
21:44:18Renoyeah but where does that file have to be?
21:44:23Renolike in what folder?
21:44:44toffe82linuxstb : ptw419 does all the job, I think he began to work on the bootloader
21:44:48linuxstbWherever you want to put it. Use the "extract to" feature in your unzipping program to extract it to your ipod.
21:45:11linuxstbtoffe82: Nice. So you're running your own code now?
21:45:22linuxstbOr rather, ptw419 is running his own code..
21:45:31Renook it can be anywhere in my ipod as long as its inside thr rockbox folder??
21:45:58linuxstbReno: I think you're confusing the zip file itself with the contents of that zip file after they're unzipped.
21:45:59toffe82linuxstb : I didn't try but we can run a modified nk.bin
21:46:50Renook i didnt get that? i'm confused.......what do u mean?
21:47:05 Quit XavierGr (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
21:47:10Renoits unzipped
21:47:27Renojust where do those files have to be .......what folder?
21:48:31dionoeaReno: just unzip it in the upper most directory on your ipod
21:48:34linuxstbIn a directory called fonts in a directory called .rockbox on your ipod.
21:48:36dionoea(that's called "root"
21:48:37dionoea)
21:48:53dionoeaah ... do like linuxstb says :)
21:49:48 Quit lids (Remote closed the connection)
21:50:35Renook i did that now how do i change the fonts? do i go to plugins then font editor
21:50:43linuxstbReno: Alternatively, you may like to try the Rockbox Utility - it will download the fonts (and new Rockbox current builds) and install them for you - http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/RockboxUtility
21:50:56Renokkk
21:50:58Renoty
21:51:04Renolet me try
21:51:07Reno=)
21:51:27linuxstbGo to Settings -> General Settings -> Display -> Browse Fonts
21:52:29Renook hold on a sec. plz
21:53:29Renohey are those fonts in englich?
21:53:51Renonever mind
21:55:11Renohey can i like create my own font?
21:55:27Renoor copy one frome my pc to my ipod?
21:57:13Renohello????
21:57:20Renoanybody on?
21:57:28LloreanReno: There's no need to ask like that.
21:57:36Renooh
21:57:37LloreanPeople are busy doing their own things
21:57:39Renosorry
21:57:46 Quit Rob2222 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
21:57:48Renoyeah just asking
21:57:53LloreanThey'll answer you, or not, but saying "hello????" and such irritates people
21:58:12Renonot trying to irritate though
21:58:16linuxstbReno: I've never done it myself (so can't help), but some info is here - http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/CreateFonts
21:58:22Renobut still my bad
21:58:37Reno=)
21:59:01Renothank you!!! =)
21:59:36Renore you guys like hackers or something?
22:00
22:00:12 Quit Arathis ("Bye, bye")
22:00:27peturworse
22:00:30preglowi've just hacked you
22:00:34preglowstealing ur moniez
22:00:36*scorche sighs
22:00:39Renolol
22:00:51Renono really are you though?
22:01:01Renocuz u'r smart as hell!
22:01:23Renoi mean i wish i new how u created rockbox!
22:01:46scorchemust we propagate the lack of distinction between hackers and crackers in the heads of the general populace? ;)
22:02:11Renohuh?
22:02:25Renohey i dont really understand that!!!
22:02:30Renoi'm 16yrs.
22:02:32Renolol
22:02:37Renohowe old r u guys?
22:02:38scorchehaha...nothing....i was just reaching out to preglow
22:02:57BagderReno: you're asking all the 143 of us at once? ;-)
22:03:05scorcheanywhere from 16 to ancient (in the case of Bagder)
22:03:17*petur hides
22:03:19Renoas long as anybody answers?
22:03:20*Bagder looks around for his cane
22:03:28Renoabout hopw old is opne of u?
22:03:38*linuxstb asks his nurse to get his cane
22:03:43Renolol
22:03:53Renolmao XDD
22:04:02Reno:)
22:04:38Bagderwell, I'm probably younger than Reno's parents at least ;-)
22:04:39Renowho was like the main person who created rockbox??
22:05:03linuxstbBagder: You hope...
22:05:14scorchewell, Bagder over there was one of them
22:05:29Renoi wish i was as smart as you guys i mean thats f**ckin' awsome!!!!! : )
22:05:42scorcheBagder: i had a friend a while back whose mom was 26 when he was 13...
22:05:50BagderReno: you're young, you'll learn fast!
22:05:51Renooh
22:06:03Renoyeah right i wish!!!!
22:06:19Renonot really good at this stuff!
22:06:29scorchethen learn and become good!
22:06:50RenoWhy is rockbox "Free" is it illegal ti sell it or something?
22:07:08Bagderits free because we like it free
22:07:14Renooh.....
22:07:19Bagderand it allows us all to collaborate on it fine
22:07:37Renoso u guy's just like being ........nice.........
22:07:55scorchewell, if it wasnt "free", rockbox wouldnt be near the state it is in today
22:08:07Renooh
22:08:07dionoea(part of open source is about being bored too isn't it?)
22:08:15Renoi guess
22:08:32Bagderor perhaps it is about not staying bored...
22:08:34linuxstbdionoea: I though it was about being itchy...
22:08:51dionoeaah ... maybe a bit of both :)
22:09:02dionoeaBagder: yeah, that's what i meant
22:09:26Renohey there was a person on saturday called "aliask" i think he or she said that you could out gameboy games on rockbox????
22:09:56scorcheyes....search the manual for "rockboy"
22:10:10bixibucan I watch video on my ipod photo with rockbox ?
22:10:33linuxstbbixibu: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/PluginMpegplayer
22:10:38Renooh!!! See u guy's are smart as hell!!! how did u come up with that?
22:10:42bixibuthaks ;)
22:10:45bixibu+n
22:11:20BagderReno: we didn't, we took someone else's idea (and code) and adapted it
22:12:11 Part rift1
22:12:34Renobut how would i put the games on it how do i copy the games ???? its like ....how is my pc supposed to read a game cartrige or whatever its called!!!!!
22:12:48 Quit ze (Connection timed out)
22:12:52scorchethere are devices that allow you to do so
22:13:00Renooh really?
22:13:34scorchethere are also sites around that host homebrew (games that random people have made and offer freely) games
22:14:05Renodo u know where i can get one of those??? how much are they??? are the games blocked???? am i asking too many questions?????
22:14:07 Join Rob2222 [0] (n=Miranda@84.177.64.55)
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22:14:21Renowhere can i get that device?
22:14:38scorcheyou might get better results asking google those questions
22:14:42 Join ze [0] (i=ze@cpe-76-175-22-254.socal.res.rr.com)
22:14:47Renolol
22:14:48Renook
22:15:01Renoam i asking......too many questions?
22:15:19Renoi'll be right back sorry
22:15:23scorcheyes...we have a strict limit of 300 per person ;)
22:15:34 Quit Reno ("CGI:IRC")
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22:18:37*bluebrother looks after his question count
22:18:40 Join mutantpineapple [0] (n=dan@87.113.91.187.plusnet.pte-ag2.dyn.plus.net)
22:19:21 Join Reon [0] (i=cf3fdb02@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-fd1e97e662d1ca84)
22:19:39Reonhey i'm back are u guys still on? : )
22:19:47scorchewe all left
22:19:49bluebrotherare actions limited too?
22:20:04bluebrotherdamn, that was another question to count ...
22:20:05Reonits reno sorry i spelled it wrong
22:20:12BagderReon: we're not here, this is all a recording
22:20:18Reonlol
22:20:19bluebrothertry /nick foobar
22:20:22linuxstbType "/nick Reno"
22:20:45Reonw8
22:20:50Reontype nick wut?
22:20:58Reonu know its reno right?
22:21:04ReonReno
22:21:07Reonlo
22:21:14Bagdernono, not nick wut, nick Reno
22:21:28Reon???????ok im confused?????????
22:21:29Reonlol
22:21:30bluebrotherand don't forget the slash before the nick
22:21:33 Nick linuxstb is now known as Reno (i=5343d4aa@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
22:21:51 Nick Reno is now known as linuxstb (i=5343d4aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-5c21ee12e37a5bb7)
22:21:51Reonu'r probaby trying too kick me off the chat!!! lol
22:22:02ReonXD
22:22:16Reoni wish i was really him!
22:22:19ReonXD
22:22:24bluebrotherReno, you want to send a command to the server. This starts with a /. And then there follows the command directly, in your case it's "nick", so it becomes "/nick"
22:22:38Reonok
22:22:50bluebrotherthat command takes the new nick as argument
22:23:00bluebrotherso "/nick foobar" will change your nick to "foobar"
22:23:14bluebrotheryou are of course not limited to the nick "foobar" *g*
22:23:30Reonkk
22:23:39Reonso.......
22:23:41Reonlol
22:24:08Reonwhere can i get those gameboy games for my ipod? any good websites?
22:24:30scorcheas i said, google is your best bet
22:24:39Reoni think it would look funny to have a game like "Pokemon" on my ipod!!!!
22:24:40Reonlol
22:24:41ReonXD
22:25:04 Join DiDjCodt [0] (n=djc@poy.chewa.net)
22:25:08scorchealso, every other line doesnt have to be "lol" or "XD"
22:25:36Reonyeahbut every time i look for the games they take me to website where they "sell gameboy games" like ebay!!
22:26:06scorchewell, this channel is for rockbox related questions..."where can i get gameboy games" is not one of those
22:26:28Reonok?
22:26:55Reonjust asking you if you know any.....and igues the answer is no.
22:27:03bluebrotheralso, distributing a pokemon ROM most likely will be pirating, and we don't support stealing music / ROMs / etc
22:27:23bluebrother(unless that music / ROM / whatever is freely distributable, of course)
22:27:38Reoni didnt say i wanted "pokemon" i said my ipod would look funny with a game like that!
22:27:49Reon: )
22:27:51dionoeaReon: see query
22:28:13dionoea(you most likely won't be able to reply though)
22:28:31Reondont u think i would look stupid playing p[okemon on my ipod in "high school"????
22:28:35bluebrothersure, but finding freely distributable stuff shouldn't be too hard, and people in here won't help you with any other
22:28:49*dionoea finds pokemon quite entertaining
22:28:57Reonok
22:29:04scorchewell, technically we wont help you find either, as it is out of the scope of this channel
22:29:05dionoea(and i've finished high school a long time ago)
22:29:05bluebrothermaybe playing the already shipped tetris clone looks better ;-)
22:29:07Reoni guess its all right then
22:29:26davinaschool? whats that? I cant remember :)
22:29:33Reonnot me i'm still in high school its my 2nd year
22:29:46Reon: )
22:30:45 Quit bixibu ("Je m'en vais tel un prince !")
22:30:56mutantpineapplecould someone do me a favour and tell me how to apply this patch? http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/5995
22:31:13Reonsorry i was afk! u guy's were probably hapy weren't you?
22:31:19scorchemutantpineapple: read the wiki page SimpleGuideToCompiling
22:31:28mutantpineapplethankyou
22:31:47davinai have no idea, sorry. i think i need to rebuild my operating system coz i think mine is all messed up since the last time i tried to put in a build
22:32:07Reondo any of u guys have an ipod?
22:32:13Reonan ipod video 30gb
22:32:16Reon???
22:32:22*davina has ipod 60gb video
22:32:23linuxstbmutantpineapple: That patch is out of date now - it won't be straightforward to apply it.
22:32:33Reonlike mine : )
22:32:44Reonoh
22:32:59mutantpineapplelinuxstb: is there a newer equivalent?
22:33:06linuxstbNo
22:33:08Reonhey i heard u canm give u'r ipod more memory is that true?
22:33:26mutantpineapplewell then i guess i'm stuck ;)
22:33:33linuxstbmutantpineapple: If there was a newer version it would be (or at least should be) added to that page.
22:33:45mutantpineapplelinuxstb: there's a 0.2 version linked lower down
22:34:48Reonhey can i put a photo as a background on my ipod?
22:34:49PaulJamlinuxstb: are you sure? a few days ago it applied fine on my build and also compiled with no errors after i removed the IBSS_ATTR from the one line.
22:35:00Reonusing rockbox or something?
22:35:08dionoeaReon: yes. It's explained in the manual.
22:35:18Reono
22:35:26davinareon you can make a theme with rockbox, you can have whatever background you like
22:35:32linuxstbPaulJam: "a few days ago" is a long time in Rockbox...
22:35:47Reonseriously how do u guys know how to do all this raw ass stuff!!!! : )
22:35:59 Join Arathis [0] (n=doerk@p5484962C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
22:36:07davinawe read the manual
22:36:09bluebrotherwe don't know
22:36:19Reonthank you by the way!!! thanks for this info! ; )
22:36:20bluebrotherwe just do it :D
22:36:40bluebrotherthat background image is referred as "backdrop" in the manual btw.
22:36:47Reonlet my try doing that
22:37:17davinaReon: take a look at these themes for the iPod Video http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/WpsIpod5g
22:37:27Reonhanks
22:37:30Reonthanks
22:37:57Reono any of u guys like anime?
22:38:39davinaThe Twilight on has an Amine theme to it
22:38:43davina*one
22:38:59Reonoh thanks
22:40:27Reoni cant find anything that says twilight
22:40:49Reonnevermind
22:42:39Reonis davina a girl?
22:43:21davinathats not a rockbox question ;)
22:43:43Reonjust asking
22:44:09Reonhey sorry i didnt type that my friend got on my pc
22:44:17Reonwe in school
22:44:49bluebrothersounds confusing
22:44:53 Join amiconn_ [0] (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn)
22:45:02davinaoh, well you should get back to your school work before the teacher catches you
22:45:29mutantpineappleok i'm a bit clueless here, do i apply the patch before or after configuring?
22:45:31Reonno school is over
22:45:42Reoni'm in the library at school
22:45:56dionoeamutantpineapple: you'd better do it before (although it doesn't matter in most cases)
22:46:03mutantpineapplek cheers
22:46:58bluebrothershhh! Don't talk in the library
22:47:00Reonhey i just downloaded that twilight theme or backdrop....but it isnt just 1 file its alot of them and its got some pic of final fantasy and shadow the hedgehog
22:47:10mutantpineapplehawt
22:47:19Reonwich one do i copy
22:47:20Reon????
22:47:32davinayou need rockbox installed on your ipod to use the wps theme
22:47:47Reoni have it
22:48:02Reonbut wich of the ones i donloaded do i copy
22:48:05Reon???
22:48:12davinaok, are you running windows?
22:48:23Reonyup
22:48:30PaulJamdoes the zip contain a .rockbox folder?
22:48:37Reonyeah
22:49:02bluebrotherwhy don't we have selfinstalling themes?
22:49:09Reonit called .rockbox.
22:49:11davinaok so if ur ipod is on drive X:\ then unzip the downloaded file to X:\ there should be a .rockbox folder on there already
22:49:11PaulJamthen you propably have to extract the zip to the root of your player
22:49:38Reonok i did that
22:49:43linuxstbbluebrother: An unzip plugin?
22:49:59Redbrevaor use rbutil...
22:50:12 Quit desowin ("use linux")
22:50:34bluebrotherlike this ... though I would prefer tar as it's much easier to handle
22:50:54bluebrotherlike the plugin I wrote some time ago ;-)
22:51:14Reonhow do i use the themes
22:51:16Reon???
22:51:23Reongo to settings?
22:51:27davinagot settings->themes then pick the theme you want
22:51:36davina*goto
22:51:36Reonok let me try
22:51:40Reonthanks
22:51:55bluebrother"browse themes" maybe?
22:52:08Reonhold on a sec. plz
22:52:12linuxstbbluebrother: IMO the problem that needs solving is slow loading of themes, not installation.
22:52:29*bluebrother recommends the manual: http://www.rockbox.org/manual.shtml
22:52:37davinais that not more down to how many images are in a theme though?
22:52:38 Quit amiconn (Nick collision from services.)
22:52:38 Nick amiconn_ is now known as amiconn (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn)
22:52:48bluebrotherlinuxstb, agreed, but installing is also an issue that repeatedly causes problems
22:53:03linuxstbWhich rbutil has solved...
22:54:08bluebrothercan it install themes from arbitrary pages? AFAIK it only uses rockbox-themes.org
22:54:29linuxstbDoes it need to? Anyone can upload to rockbox-themes.org afaik.
22:54:31Reonare the the themes supposed to be in a folder call backdrops? or the one called themes?
22:54:52davinai have a mirror copy of the contents of my ipod in one of my main filesystems, i sync using a shell script that downloads the latest build, unpacks it to the mirror area, and then checks date diffs between mirror and ipod and copies across newer file, including any new CDs i might have ripped that day
22:55:00bluebrotherthere will always be people around distributon themes on other pages
22:55:23 Part dewdude ("Leaving")
22:55:29bluebrotherand wasn't there the idea to make all themes at that page comply to some licensing rules?
22:56:10linuxstbI think the idea was that a more official version of rockbox-themes.org would need to pay more attention to licensing/copyright.
22:56:51Reonuuuummmm.....where do the themese have to be again???
22:57:20 Quit petur ("here today, gone tomorrow")
22:57:36linuxstbReon: If you download the theme .zip file to your computer, and then right-click on it, do you get an "Extract to..." option?
22:57:47davinaReon, usually the zip file has all the necessary folders and put the files into ./backdrops ./fonts ./wps and also ./wps/themenamehere
22:58:21Reon no it just says "extract all"
22:58:42Reonand i clicked that
22:58:44davinathat'll do it
22:59:11Reonyeah it takes them out of the zip but where do i copy them?
22:59:30Reonok soory i got to go
23:00
23:00:12 Quit Arathis ("Bye, bye")
23:00:26Reonbye thank you
23:01:18davinayou are welcome, bye Reon
23:01:24Reondo u guy's have a manual i can print?
23:01:26mutantpineapplehm, patching failed :|
23:01:46davinahttp://www.rockbox.org/manual.shtml
23:01:59Reonok thank you bye
23:02:12 Quit Reon ("CGI:IRC")
23:03:02 Quit Redbreva ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.3/2007030919]")
23:04:43mutantpineappleis it possible/sensible to manually apply the changes?
23:06:41 Quit himitsu (Remote closed the connection)
23:07:35 Join himitsu [0] (n=himitsu@61.213.184.193)
23:09:39bluebrotherpossible: yes, sensible: depends on.
23:11:06LloreanPretty much depends on whether it broke because the change won't work in its current form, or if the patch program just can't figure out where the appropriate line went
23:11:58mutantpineapplesince someone mentioned they successfully applied it a couple of days ago, i'm assuming it just can't figure it out
23:12:12mutantpineapplenot exactly bullet-proof logic but...
23:12:16LloreanThat's not really grounds to make that assumption
23:12:30LloreanOne single change to the SVN can make a patch require actual work to resync.
23:13:36bluebrotherit highly depends on what changed in svn. Resyncing can be as easy as adjusting a single line or as hard as almost rewriting large parts of the patch
23:14:52mutantpineapplehm
23:15:26***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:15:53 Quit Guile (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:16:23mutantpineapplewell i certainly don't have that sort of expertise
23:17:45mutantpineapplesince my attempts at ripping dvds are hopelessly failing, i'll give this one a miss as i don't need it anyway
23:18:23LloreanWhat Rockbox patch has anything to do with ripping dvds?
23:18:59mutantpineapplethe patch is to increase the fps of mpegplayer on an x5
23:19:25mutantpineappleso until i have mpegs, i don't need the patch
23:24:55 Quit ompaul (Client Quit)
23:28:44*davina is away: night night
23:28:59 Quit davina ("byeeeeee!")
23:29:46 Quit PaulJam (".")
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23:44:57LeetlandonHey, Im getting a error about arm-elf-gcc not found compiling.
23:46:55Leetlandonbash: arm-elf-gcc command not found.
23:47:04dionoeadid you change your PATH ?
23:47:13LeetlandonGet erros doing that.
23:47:20dionoealike what?
23:47:36LeetlandonIs there a way to copy and paste it?
23:47:46dionoeasure. use pastebin.ca
23:51:08Leetlandonbash: $'\r' : command not found
23:51:15Leetlandon': not a valid identifier
23:51:48Leetlandonbash /etc/progile: line 83: syntax error near unexpected token '$' in\r''
23:51:52dionoeaand the command you used?
23:51:58linuxstbTry "dos2unix" /etc/profile
23:52:08LeetlandonHmm?
23:52:08linuxstbI mean "dos2unix /etc/profile"
23:52:50LeetlandonOkay, then?
23:52:52dionoeause the command in a shell
23:52:53linuxstbIt sounds like you edited the /etc/profile file using a Windows editor that didn't keep the correct line-endings.
23:53:10LeetlandonThen?
23:53:31linuxstbDid that command work? (as in not displaying any error)
23:53:53LeetlandonYep, it worked and now i have "bash-3.2$
23:54:01Leetlandonand I can type stuff after that.
23:54:03linuxstbThen close down your cygwin window and open a new one.
23:54:14LeetlandonThanks!
23:54:53 Quit moos ("<good night>")
23:55:07mutantpineapplefor some reason, i can't apply a single patch :S
23:55:12mutantpineapplethey all fail somehow
23:55:22 Join XavierGr [0] (n=xavier@ppp257-124.adsl.forthnet.gr)
23:55:23LeetlandonWhat's the errors?
23:55:52mutantpineapple"hunk #x failed" x lots
23:56:15linuxstbmutantpineapple: Try the most recent patch on the server (sort them by date). If that fails, then you're more likely than not doing something wrong. But it's not uncommon for patches to become out of date.
23:56:41preglowoh, lord, spare me from cygwin
23:56:49linuxstbFor example, the WPS code in Rockbox has recently been completely rewritten, so any patches related to WPS will fail now.
23:57:15mutantpineapplei see
23:57:53 Quit Llorean ("Leaving.")
23:58:00 Quit Br3nda (Remote closed the connection)
23:58:11mutantpineapplemust dash, anyway
23:58:15mutantpineapplethanks a lot for the help

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